NationStates Jolt Archive

this is now secret R&D thread so go away


the ice berg carier is made of pykrete which is made up of ice mixed with woodchips,and saw dust. this ship is truely massive so it can not go in most ports.

Habbakuk-not for sale
class iceberg carrier
hull
1,500 feet long
250 feet wide
power
8 Nuclear Batteries driving 80 waterjets
top speed
32 kts
armerments
20 dual-barrelled 4.5" DP guns
25 quad 40 mm(computer controled)
75 quad .50 cal (computer controled)
50 sam launchers
250 planes
armor
20 feet of pykrete(very bounant so wieght is not a problem)
15 inches of steel directly attached to the inner frame of the ship
equipment
refirgeration equipment
radar
sonar
fire control computer

An iceberg? Good idea, really, good idea, but I'm pretty sure this thing won't float. Put a hovercraft sort of thing under it to be sure. Oh, and those guns would fly away when fired if set in ice.

it is cover with ice on the sides only the rest is just a mettal hull

also rember that this is AN iceberg and if you don't think that ice doesn't float then go get a glass of water and put ice in it and some back and tell me if you still think it won't float.

Oh it's gonna float. But Ice in space? What happens if you get too close to a sun?

Oh, so the ice is only on the outsides. But I know ice floats-- but not FOUR KILOMETERS of it, especially that wide.

ever heard of the north pole? there is no land up there at that floats and last time i check its a lot bigger than 4 km.

Oh it's gonna float. But Ice in space? What happens if you get too close to a sun?

wtf? this is mt not ft.

oh my fault. i always thought you where a ft nation. guess your both. Still. How's it gonna last in warm waters?

refirgeration equipment i guess i should add that in the specs huh.

i don't think that's gonna work. On the inside maybe but not on the outsidee.

if this was ft i would asy its a comet carrier.

i saw this thing on the history channel that said the british built 1 in canada that lasted through 1 summer that was one of the hottest in the area for along time.

OOC: Well, this appears to be a pretty ordinary copy of a real WWII idea tinkered with by the UK -something that Walmington was going to do, but, due to the departure from NS of our key enemies, did not attempt- even down to the name (Habbakuk [sic]). That was to have fifty-foot walls and a refrigeration plant in the middle of it all, but it was going to take 8,000 people or more to make it, and cost tens of millions of 1940s British pounds. It appears that this thing may actually be twice as big, but otherwise pretty much the same thing...

Still, I wouldn't suggest this for the tropics...

thats because i got the specs from the internet and dubled them

You do realize this is gonna cost alot a money right? And if someone takes out the fridge system your screwed over .

OOC: There's no major danger for it visiting the tropics, so long as the refrigeration plant's working and it doesn't stay for a decade without repair... but what vessel would? I have no idea how practical this thing would be in NS, in terms of the investment needed to build and to maintain it relative to its survivability, but the construction material isn't just ice, it's essentially fibre-reinforced ice. You could chuck a brick of it on the fireplace for a minute before taking it out, and it'd still be substantially intact, likewise you could shoot it and not shatter the thing. Even if it were just ice, that much of it wouldn't melt over ni.. well, day.

You do realize this is gonna cost alot a money right? And if someone takes out the fridge system your screwed over .

thats why the system is in the center of the ship behind lots of ice and computer controled guns.

so any buyers?

You know, maybe it's just me, but this seems extremely vulnerable to air strikes, missile attack, or shots from the many kinds of super-battleships/dreadnaughts/super-dreadnaughts that can be found in NS.

but battleships get there buts kicked by aircraft.

What would happen if I hit this with Napalm...would the foundation for the guns melt?

no the guns are on a steel frame that is surrond by ice there is metal structure behind the ice.

but battleships get there buts kicked by aircraft.

Only if they totally lack an air-defense capability. Most NSers realize this was a weak point for RL battleships, and apply extensive AD batteries to their battleships.

OOC: Well, it wasn't [overly vulnerable] to WWII technology. I don't know if the principles would have much changed, today, but I can't see how blasting a few blocks off it would be worse for it -even be anywhere near so bad- as blowing a hole in a conventional ship. At half the length, the British vessel was to have walls fifty-foot thick, comprised of more than quarter of a million Pykrete bricks (and weighing possibly above two million tons, I think, but maybe you shouldn't quote me on that, though it seems reasonable). A block hardly a few inches thick has every chance of stopping a handgun bullet. Hundreds of times thicker and you've got a pretty serious mass of fiber-meshed armour comprised of individual blocks. You could bomb it all day with conventional munitions, and you may as well just be trying to sink an island.

when i googled "iceberg carrier" one of the results as "churchhill's invicble carrier"so ya this is pretty much invic;be to outside attack but not to inside and you would have to do alot of damage to the interior to sink it but the most damage you will do is leave a have wooden half ice iceberg floating out there.

Three words-- modern Greek Fire.

If it's invincle on the outside it's consider wanking and/or godmodding.

but this is true its not some uber thing this was made up in ww2 come on. the death star was invible from the out side and everybodies fine with that.

but this is true its not some uber thing this was made up in ww2 come on. the death star was invible from the out side and everybodies fine with that.

Hey, make a flamethroer ship, and this thing is DONE. Besides, if it's so hard, I can always use Rods of God. It IS 4km long. Easy to hit.

Yeah but nobody uses the Death Star.

its unsinkable in the snse that it can be tactitly destoryed as in the interior blown up but the outside is like a iceberg. the ship can be destoryed but just not sunk in the normal sense but can be melted over the years or you could just nuke it. what ever floats you boat.

nobody is gonna waste a nuke on a ship. And believe me it's not gonna take years for it to melt believe me it will days with all the people on NS. I see this as a waste of money on your nations part.

The Death Star isn't invincible from the outside, as was clearly illustrated in Episode IV and VI. In any case, by NS standards it's FT, and godmodding/tech-wanking is not as much of an issue in an FT roleplay as it is in a MT situation.

I don't this is FT. It almost makes the MT line.

Well, fine, go ahead. But I will develop flame ships to counter this!

k lets see them get close enough with 500 planes at my disposal.

nobody is gonna waste a nuke on a ship.

Not true. For many decades in RL there were nuclear anti-ship missiles and nuclear torpedoes, not to mention nuclear depth charges, nuclear artillery rounds, nuclear bunker-busters, and nuclear air-defense missiles. Now maybe this isn't the same for NS, but it would seem to be an excellent way to destroy a hardened/fortified target rather quickly.

subrock was orgianly a nuke,the new versions are the ones that more people know about.

The iceberg carrier, yes was a design in the WW2. It was designed to be made out of ply-ice (or something like that), which was essentially saw dust and water mixed and then frozen. Its specific heat was therefore along with melting point is increased. What was interesting about the design was that even when bombed and hit continously, the ice needed for this was so thick that the carrier would likely float even after continous bombings. That was why it became so appealing.

k lets see them get close enough with 500 planes at my disposal.

Easily. Ever heard of SAMs and AEGIS? Oh, and EMP?

i will start production shortly and will build 4 of these thing. the time until compltion is 9 ns years

yes i have but if you attack all 4 that i am to build then you have to deal wih 2,000 planes.

yes i have but if you attack all 4 that i am to build then you have to deal wih 2,000 planes.

Well, deal with my nuclear arsenal then. Really, if I'm attacked by a force like that... I will not hesitate.

OOC: A flame-throwing ship? Against an aircraft carrier? Fantastic idea, I don't know why the Byzantine empire ever fell, with the ability to destroy super aircraft carriers! No, seriously though, a flame-throwing ship is going to have to get to essentially point-blank range with a fully armed aircraft carrier. That's... interesting. And, has nobody actually been reading past, "iceberg carrier" (well, icebeg, but we got the idea)? This is Pykrete, you can land a battalion of troops armed with flamethrowers on the deck and leave them there until their tanks are empty... all you'll have done is to turn the deck a bit black and rough, which, presumably, can be rectified by spraying water over it or else by replacing a few hundred ice-bricks. You're going to have to come up with something a bit better than that.

Also, it's not just a ship with a skin, it's basically... an iceberg, held together by countless fibers. If you shoot it, you are more likely to chip bits off it than to split it open, if you penetrate to a good depth -which won't be easy to do, this is not just ice- there's a large element of modularity to by blown out without necessarily causing critical damage, and there's a great, great deal of mass involved. Perhaps really good modern penetrating delay weapons will be somewhat effective, I can't say, and I don't think it's within the means of commentators thus far to judge, either, so until someone more clued-up drops by we might be stuck on that. I'm not sure that splitting the hull will be at all easy, as with most ships, because, as I say, you can't really think of it in exactly the same terms as a conventional floating skin... the material itself is buoyant, unlike steel, and the hull shape isn't really what keeps it... unsunk.

A bit of fire, some shells, bombs, missiles, are not a worry.

A true weapon of mass destruction maybe, but considering that some old warships take time to sink after a nuclear blast, I wouldn't be 100% confident of out-right killing this even with a nuclear attack.

I don't know why I'm defending this like it's my own creation, I'm in two minds about whether or not to even build an amphibious assault ship :)

i can understand that but why would a anation my size attack a nation your size anyway.

nobody is gonna waste a nuke on a ship. And believe me it's not gonna take years for it to melt believe me it will days with all the people on NS. I see this as a waste of money on your nations part.

Do you even RP in MT? If you did then you would know that people DO and probably WILL nuke ships.

Secondly, of course flamethrowers won't do anything.. but rubber thermite burning at 3000 c? Just fire 'san -shiki' type AA shells at it.. (I carry my own version as standard) and this thing would melt and burn. Alternatively, hit the rudder.. though a better option would be nuking it or blowing it out the water with godknows how many supersupersuperheavy shells.

Well, deal with my nuclear arsenal then. Really, if I'm attacked by a force like that... I will not hesitate.

OOC: Well now that's just mad.

OOC: Well now that's just mad.

how would that be mad? what would you do if on your radar you saw 2,000 planes coming toward your borders?

i can understand that but why would a anation my size attack a nation your size anyway.

Well, you are correct. If this is so strong, i think I'll actually buy... how does 6 sound?

But about actually killing this thing:

Perhaps my Solar Flare Gun will do the trick? It's a sattelite that can focus sunlight onto anything on Earth.

OOC: A flame-throwing ship? Against an aircraft carrier? Fantastic idea, I don't know why the Byzantine empire ever fell, with the ability to destroy super aircraft carriers! No, seriously though, a flame-throwing ship is going to have to get to essentially point-blank range with a fully armed aircraft carrier. That's... interesting. And, has nobody actually been reading past, "iceberg carrier" (well, icebeg, but we got the idea)? This is Pykrete, you can land a battalion of troops armed with flamethrowers on the deck and leave them there until their tanks are empty... all you'll have done is to turn the deck a bit black and rough, which, presumably, can be rectified by spraying water over it or else by replacing a few hundred ice-bricks. You're going to have to come up with something a bit better than that.

Also, it's not just a ship with a skin, it's basically... an iceberg, held together by countless fibers. If you shoot it, you are more likely to chip bits off it than to split it open, if you penetrate to a good depth -which won't be easy to do, this is not just ice- there's a large element of modularity to by blown out without necessarily causing critical damage, and there's a great, great deal of mass involved. Perhaps really good modern penetrating delay weapons will be somewhat effective, I can't say, and I don't think it's within the means of commentators thus far to judge, either, so until someone more clued-up drops by we might be stuck on that. I'm not sure that splitting the hull will be at all easy, as with most ships, because, as I say, you can't really think of it in exactly the same terms as a conventional floating skin... the material itself is buoyant, unlike steel, and the hull shape isn't really what keeps it... unsunk.

A bit of fire, some shells, bombs, missiles, are not a worry.

A true weapon of mass destruction maybe, but considering that some old warships take time to sink after a nuclear blast, I wouldn't be 100% confident of out-right killing this even with a nuclear attack.

I don't know why I'm defending this like it's my own creation, I'm in two minds about whether or not to even build an amphibious assault ship :)

thats why i'm selling it. this is like the best ship ever made!

OOC: Well now that's just mad.

It's four naear-invincible ships, with 2000 planes. I really can't counteract that.

OOC: 1) Those three letters were emphasised for a reason. 2) Launch interceptors several minutes ago, while they were faffing-about forming their ridiculously big wing and running out of fuel.

Oh, I mean, launch nuclear missiles that won't stop the aircraft, but will trigger a retaliatory strike. *cough*

Well, you are correct. If this is so strong, i think I'll actually buy... how does 6 sound?

But about actually killing this thing:

Perhaps my Solar Flare Gun will do the trick? It's a sattelite that can focus sunlight onto anything on Earth.

order confirmed- total 2.4 trillion ships will be delivered in 8 ns years,

OOC: 1) Those three letters were emphasised for a reason. 2) Launch interceptors several minutes ago, while they were faffing-about forming their ridiculously big wing and running out of fuel.

Oh, I mean, launch nuclear missiles that won't stop the aircraft, but will trigger a retaliatory strike. *cough*

Actually, the aircraft themselves I can deal with. But the ships... no. But yeah, what will this run on?

order confirmed- total 2.4 billion ships will be delivered in 8 ns years,

Thanks!

this thing moves maybe 10 kt. and i have though of some way to destroy these things. but do you really think i would tell you?

i meant to say trillion not billion. that is a big under taking.

this thing moves maybe 10 kt. and i have though of some way to destroy these things. but do you really think i would tell you?

Yes. (just kidding.) But ten knots? Well, it is a trade-off. Armor for speed. oh, and can we add more guns?

i meant to say trillion not billion.

Oh. then we pay from our Education budget as well ,as we're trying to reduce it, as it's a bit excessive.

that is only enugh to buy 2.... barely.

It's not strong though. There's no proper evidence that this thing would actually float (yes its buoyant but they are two different things in practicality) and secondly this 'ship' itself would probably not move in excess of 3 knots. Secondly, where do you intend to create this much ice, enough to ship out 12 million tons? Thirdly, pykrete isn't invincinble, it's just heavy. The Habbakuk would have been unsinkable in 1943 but what about now? You don't think we can make heat powerful enough just to melt this ice? Finally, how are you going to move this thing? Traditional screws in nacelles like the original Habbakuk would simply snap or throw their turbines every hour because of the sheer weight of this craft.

that is only enugh to buy 2.... barely.

With the whole budget? Never mind then. We'll build our own... (it will NOT be a copy. it will be much smaller and we will not copy any stats. AT ALL.)

1. there are not gas engines it is electric drive motors and there are 40 of them.

With electric you wouldnt' generate nearly enough power, and also your screws just would just snap anyway.

With the whole budget? Never mind then. We'll build our own... (it will NOT be a copy. it will be much smaller and we will not copy any stats. AT ALL.)


yes the whole ed. what eco. calculator are you using?

Wow. Just wow. I'm putting this at the draftroom, and see if someone can't make it into something quite uber.

Don't worry, it won't be a copy. Really, not a copy at all.

With electric you wouldnt' generate nearly enough power, and also your screws just would just snap anyway.

well then what would you recomend?

They won't, because Pykrete carriers are effectively useless for the abovementioned reasons. Someone tried this before and it got shot down.

EDIT: I wouldn't recommend anything. There isn't a way to power that thing that doesn't require several extremely large power plants. Now, you could TUG it, but I wouldn't recommend that, either..

Wow. Just wow. I'm putting this at the draftroom, and see if someone can't make it into something quite uber.

Don't worry, it won't be a copy. Really, not a copy at all.

cool

I edited my post.

wpuld pressized air work you know like a big squirt gun?

Waterjet.. Pumpjet.. they're systems of propulsion, the actual engine behind them is nuclear, which agian is not possible.

yes the whole ed. what eco. calculator are you using?

http://www.sunsetrpg.com/nsxmlparser.php

But Rammisile, want to make this a joint project?

that would get you 3 ships with the whole ed and def. budgets.

http://www.sunsetrpg.com/nsxmlparser.php

But Rammisile, want to make this a joint project?
Sure. I got it posted at the draftroom already.

(What is the point of an Aircraft Carrier that can't move?)

Waterjet.. Pumpjet.. they're systems of propulsion, the actual engine behind them is nuclear, which agian is not possible.

so the engine has to nuclear? but can't i just use a high powered electric or gas like on a jetski?

1010102 is following in my footsteps! *honored*

1010102 is following in my footsteps! *honored*


??? what are you talking about i had no idea you came up with this i only saw some thing on the history channel.

so the engine has to nuclear? but can't i just use a high powered electric or gas like on a jetski?

For my designed I used 4 nuclear reactor functioning at 10 MW each. The engines were still propeller driven by 80 engines, but it allowed it to reach 10 knots.

I would actually combine the nuclear battery idea with the ship. Upgrade it to 80 MW and you can replace turbines with water jets to super-cool the ship and increase the speed to around 15 knots.

wait i got an idea! what about hooking subs attack to the ship by metal bars the power wouldn't be in the ship so it won't melt the ice.

??? what are you talking about i had no idea you came up with this i only saw some thing on the history channel.

I built this ship last year and mine was to a far grander scale. It weighed in at 17.8 million tons. I pioneered the idea on Nationstates. Also I did see the same special on history channel. :)

17.8 million tons! holy shat its missive!

Yeah, Asbena tried it a year ago.

Anyway, a nuclear engine would suffer the same problems as the original Habbakuk - that is, internal engines (nuclear would have to be internal) would be too hot.

Yes, but you have to make some power for the jet. The system is called waterjet.

wait i got an idea! what about hooking subs attack to the ship by metal bars the power wouldn't be in the ship so it won't melt the ice.

The pykrete won't melt on its own in normal artic conditions, but in warmer waters you need the engine to cool it which will be a small drain. If a 1 horsepower engine could keep it from melting (a 30ft block basically) then a massive full carrier would need about 10 megawatts to cool and operate the systems with the rest towards defenses and engine power.

Yep. Churchill wanted a fleet of these bad boys.:rolleyes:

Yeah, Asbena tried it a year ago.

Anyway, a nuclear engine would suffer the same problems as the original Habbakuk - that is, internal engines (nuclear would have to be internal) would be too hot.

Yes, you could do that, but it would be similarily problematic, since there's still a screw involved...

OOC: If Walmington were to have gone ahead with its own Pykrete vessel, it would... well, no, Walmington would have made a proper botch-job of it, but let's pretend. If WoS were to have pursued its own such construction, it would not have thought of it as an aircraft carrier, per se, and would not have built one/some for the standing fleets of the Royal Walmingtonian Navy. We would have made a small demonstrator, as the British/Canadians in reality, to learn the basics of Pykrete as a shipbuilding material, and we would have begun to design the full-scale vessel and the facilities required to produce it. Perhaps we would have made a start on those facilities, and even on gathering some of the materials (that's not to say anything like saving the icecubes from spirit glasses too quickly parched). Then we would have continued to learn, research, and train, using small demonstrators at sea and building partial mock-ups on land to figure out just what life would be like on an artificial iceberg, and one handling operational combat aircraft at that. And we would have shot at them when we were done.

To me this all seems obvious with an essentially new concept. More to the point, it would be treated as a mobile aerodrome for deployment in a specific key operation in a major conflict, deployed to win an assault on which a campaign pivoted, and to be a planned loss, essentially, to be broken-up after the victory it enabled.

And we wouldn't make it twice the length of the Habbakuk Project's design.

Okay, I think that I can stop, now.

17.8 million tons! holy shat its missive!

It was a beast....and remains undestroyed. Total cost of the production of the ship is currently $4.5 billion. It held over 5000 aircraft and had 16 launch ramps, was immune to most air attacks by a metal storm defense grid against missiles and aircraft and even BOATS! Submarines were dealt with by torpedo launches.

Weakness was nuclear missile, but even the mighty MOAB would not work against my first one (which cost near $20 billion to produce because I outfitted it with depleted uranium armor also.)

The walls on my ship were 600 feet thick.....It was basically immune as it could self repair itself with slush form of the pykrete (icky gooy mess, but it didn't expand and wreck the super structure, a temporary seal)

made a price drop by 50%

i will change to many outboard engines with fuel tanks in the ships but the ebgines outside.

Meh. It's probably the largest undestroyed ship, clocking in next to my Howe of 14,959,852 tons and 1,876 metres..

...Engines outside? Care to explain HOW that works?

Yeah, Asbena tried it a year ago.

Anyway, a nuclear engine would suffer the same problems as the original Habbakuk - that is, internal engines (nuclear would have to be internal) would be too hot.

Yes, you could do that, but it would be similarily problematic, since there's still a screw involved...

With the nuclear battery idea it actually would not have heat problems (Mine did as they were not based off the Toshiba designs. Though a S4 will EASILY work. And infact the full version will cost only $160 million for 80 MW! Best of all it provides power for 30 years with no maintaince or fuel rod switching! EVEN BETTER!? It can't meltdown!

Ahum.. if the original Habbakuk had heat problems from having a diesel engine inside, I have no confidence in a nuclear battery being able to change anything.

Meh. It's probably the largest undestroyed ship, clocking in next to my Howe of 14,959,852 tons and 1,876 metres..

...Engines outside? Care to explain HOW that works?

The propellers were originally on the concept ship were outside and I believe it was around 26 engines. (So even if a sub or whatever took out say 5, they would still keep on chugging!) It was a brillant design that would easily withstand the bombers of the day and was like a super Nimitz. The thing was so godly that should we ever build one with modernized technology, the world would fear it in the artic or antartic.

snip
...Engines outside? Care to explain HOW that works?

yes the engines outside in pods that are shaped like the standard teardrop sub design. he fuel will be inside te ships. and the engines would generate electicity which would power the cooling gear.

Yes, but there's no guarentee it would have worked and this thing is twice the size of the Habbakuk. Seriously, scaling up doesn't always work.

And how are you going to fix the screw problem?

Ahum.. if the original Habbakuk had heat problems from having a diesel engine inside, I have no confidence in a nuclear battery being able to change anything.

It didn't have heat problems, the test model ship worked with a mere 1 HP engine and was kept cool so it didn't melt. The actual momentum being supplied by the propeller was outside of the ship (and was fairly noticeable), but the cooling engine was DEEP inside the ship at its heart and ran throughout it.

Yes it did, they couldn't put the engines inside because it would have been too hot.

Edit: Goodnight. I'm off to sleep.

Yes, but there's no guarentee it would have worked and this thing is twice the size of the Habbakuk. Seriously, scaling up doesn't always work.

Nice thing about the Habbakuk, its more powerful when scaled up! As long as you have proper weight management. The super massive blocks can be spread apart by 400 or more feet and be easily capable of support the interior. Think of a MASSIVE block of ice that has the inside hollowed out with an interior filled of weapons and planes and at the very heart, a massive nuclear engine with a cooling system.

Our version uses liquid nitrogen that flowed through the pipes in a network that spanned th ship. It had massive docks that the planes went down about 200 feet below the waterline at the heart of the ship. This thing was a BEAST. Anyone who builds one has only three things to fear.

Nuclear Strike
Shallow waters (Mine couldn't go anywhere if the depth was not near 300 feet deep.)
Constant bombing (Even the bombs will break it up...but even in pieces she'll float!)

Yes it did, they couldn't put the engines inside because it would have been too hot.

Edit: Goodnight. I'm off to sleep.

It wouldn't have been too hot and the ice melts so slowly even in 80 F. You have the cooling system working it won't have any problems. The nuclear battery system is even better because it does not release heat like the rest.

I will keep my idea of 100 seprate diesel engine pods. and

Little inefficent, but whatever. ^-^

tell the 50,000 hp ineffective.

tell the 500,000 hp ineffective.

To get the same power to move it you need 372,500,000 watts. That is 372.5 MW. That's just for engine power. Overkill much?

woops 1 to many 0s:p

Your engine will look like this then:
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/rta96c.jpg

http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/rta96c_cyldeck.jpg

http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/rta96c_crank.jpg

Enjoy. ^-^

50 of those per side... thats doable on a 4000 foot ship.

Here was some old stats:


Builder: Kjata Unifed Naval Industries, Refrig-R-Us!, Ice-man Corp, Kjata Torpedo Plant, Kjata Military Factory #451, Bombing Run Ballistics Corp.
Power Plant: Four Nuclear Power Plants
Propulsion: 80 Propellers
Length, overall 6,700 feet (2,042.16 meters)
Width: widest point 1200 feet (365.76 meters)
Flight Deck Width: 1000 feet (304.8 meters)
Height: to flight deck 300 feet (91.44 meters)
Height: to top: 550 feet (167.64 meters)
Displacement Approx. 18,412,000,000 Tonnes
Speed: Currently In Questioning/Performing Sea Trials
Aircraft: 1600+
Aircraft elevators: Sixteen (16)
Catapults: Twelve (12)

Crew Ship's Company: 7,600 (Standard to operate)
Air Wing: 38,400 (24 people per plane, maximum personnel limit)
Nuclear engine crew: 300
Total: 46,300 People Maximum

Though this is before I learned not to make the major mistakes I did with the first one.

50 of those per side... thats doable on a 4000 foot ship.

Actually....one of these is already overkill. Its a 100,000 HP engine.

Total engine weight: 2300 tons (The crankshaft alone weighs 300 tons.)
Length: 89 feet
Height: 44 feet
Maximum power: 108,920 hp at 102 rpm
Maximum torque: 5,608,312 lb/ft at 102rpm
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/

Seriously....go nuts. Though you'll burn through fuel while mine doesn't. The orignal one I made....was unlikely...but no one bitched about the horsepower which kinda shocked me....though the other unreleased models are better.

Here was some old stats:



Originally Posted by Kjata Major
Builder: Kjata Unifed Naval Industries, Refrig-R-Us!, Ice-man Corp, Kjata Torpedo Plant, Kjata Military Factory #451, Bombing Run Ballistics Corp.
Power Plant: Four Nuclear Power Plants
Propulsion: 80 Propellers
Length, overall 6,700 feet (2,042.16 meters)
Width: widest point 1200 feet (365.76 meters)
Flight Deck Width: 1000 feet (304.8 meters)
Height: to flight deck 300 feet (91.44 meters)
Height: to top: 550 feet (167.64 meters)
Displacement Approx. 18,412,000,000 Tonnes
Speed: Currently In Questioning/Performing Sea Trials
Aircraft: 1600+
Aircraft elevators: Sixteen (16)
Catapults: Twelve (12)

Crew Ship's Company: 7,600 (Standard to operate)
Air Wing: 38,400 (24 people per plane, maximum personnel limit)
Nuclear engine crew: 300
Total: 46,300 People Maximum


Though this is before I learned not to make the major mistakes I did with the first one.

ok and what was that mistake?

fine then i will go with your propulsion system.

ok and what was that mistake?

A mistake was a fatal flaw in the heat transferance system which reduced the cooling systems by 26% a nuclear battery type would be only by 1% or less as the heat release is negliable. This meant that the ship was not as efficent as it could or SHOULD have been.

Another was the fact that the interior on this had composite armor in sheets requiring massive repairs and the potential for sheets of pykrete falling off. Solution was to have poles of Pykrete and drilled in sheets to hold the network together...though this model was unshakey and too expensive. A solid Pykrete ship works just as well.

Another was the flight deck, while suitable for planes and could land even a B-2 on it, the elevators were slow and would be problematic and would be subject to breaking down unless new models were constructed. They were just too heavy sadly.

A major other one was the total height, it came out of the water 300 FEET and its draft was just overkill....limited areas of operation.

ok then but i am only using the propulsion system not the design,so this will not have these problems.

ok then but i am only using the propulsion system not the design,so this will not have these problems.

Well you aren't using a nuclear engine or composite armor systems. So yours won't, my later designs were infact much more simple and reduced costs to just $1 billion for even MORE mass ships weighing in at 22.5 million tons and plans for a 2 billion ton floating fortress.

Pykrete is amazing as long as you upgrade and update the systems. Asbena might return to that, but we are more air power then naval power.

Oh...Just for the record...a Pykrete carrier = SD destroyer. Super dreadnoughts will be PLOWED through by this ship. You slam a SD with one of these and they will be ripped apart if you are even going 15 knots. It will hurt your ship a little, but you will hit it, flip it on its side, drive it under the water (causing it to split in two) and shred to pieces. It proves REALLY nasty as SD cannot outrun the carrier or its huge air armada you can store or 'hop' on them.

thats good in fact its Excellent

thats good in fact its Excellent

Why do you think that I chose it for my nation which couldn't afford expensive hi-tech ships? They can take massive contineous hits and shrug it off. A bullet penetrates just 6 inches. A bomb will take off about 8 feet. If you protected your sides with some steel armor (even 20 inches) you will not need to worry about much, just make sure that its latched INTO the Pykrete or it could slide off if getting a direct hit on the panels.

Just avoid the tactical nukes. :P

got it i will make sure that its latched on.thanks for the help with the disign maybe i will try and make that 2 billion ton moster you planned.

it has been taken of the market.

Well the 2 billion ton monster is not a weapon....its a massive artic research fortress. No need to make anything that big as a weapon. ^-^

why not? you could fit a small air force on that thing.

If my original ship can fit 1600 aircraft....a ship the size of a large city will easily do the same, but its such a large target that it is not exactly smart to throw all your eggs in one basket. :P

but a ship that size has to be nearly unsinkable with that much Pykrete,right?

but a ship that size has to be nearly unsinkable with that much Pykrete,right?

They said the same about the Titanic. And look at it now.

but that hit an iceberg and sunk. did the iceberg sink? no because ice floats. and this is one helleva a iceberg.

but a ship that size has to be nearly unsinkable with that much Pykrete,right?

Ah correct it is unsinkable. ^-^

but that hit an iceberg and sunk. did the iceberg sink? no because ice floats. and this is one helleva a iceberg.

Well, since you put it that way... here. My natio nwill pay for 50% of the project, if we get six of them.

They said the same about the Titanic. And look at it now.

but that hit an iceberg and sunk. did the iceberg sink? no because ice floats. and this is one helleva a iceberg.

1010102 is correct, its density is less then that of water...so it will always float.

Well, since you put it that way... here. My natio nwill pay for 50% of the project, if we get six of them.

He took it off the market. Asbena won't sell either. :P

deal you get half of all ships built under 1 condition: you cannot resell these under any circumstances or let it be caputered.

deal you get half of all ships built under 1 condition: you cannot resell these under any circumstances or let it be caputered.

We agree to these conditions.

Wonderful....giving someone else a super ship. X-X I liked being the only one who had them....was a nice run though.

they are paying 50% of the cost so they get 50% of the ships right?

Outboard engines?! A few well placed torpedoes and you're done for. Oh yes, besides that, a rail slug will most likely burrow through the tons of ice and strike vital equipment.

In addition, thermite would tear the living shit out of this thing, hands down.

they are paying 50% of the cost so they get 50% of the ships right?

So basically, for every one you sell, I get one?

Well it means you are paying 50% of the ship so he can get 6 more.

Since the project is a single ship you are infact going to have to build 6 extra at full price to him. I would advise against it.

actually i took it of the market you are funding 50% of the prject and I plan on building 20 ships so you should get your moneys worth out of it. unless you would rather only have 6 out 20.

So basically, for every one you sell, I get one?

THAT'S EVEN WORSE! Don't do it!

actually i took it of the market you are funding 50% of the prject and I plan on building 20 ships so you should get your moneys worth out of it. unless you would rather only have 6 out 20.

We'll take ten.

THAT'S EVEN WORSE! Don't do it!

Not doing it.

OOC: Fine screw it....

IC: Asbena will donate 50% of the funds required for the project as long as 1010102 promises not to sell or give away or lose the ships through any method to any other nation. This is a contract made by Father Nashira of Asbena and breaking it is grounds for war. Asbena takes its research programs seriously.

of course you must also never use them agiast me. because i know designed them so i know every last weak point.

Velkya would like to purchase one of these ice fortresses. How much would that come to?

of course you must also never use them agiast me. because i know designed them so i know every last weak point.

Actually anyone who studies the inital designs would know that unless you changed the structure system. ^-^

Velkya would like to purchase one of these ice fortresses. How much would that come to?

Forget I mentioned the ice fortress, its not a weapon is not being sold. Besides...why would I give the pinnacle of technology away?

umm who am going to side with. give a some time to think about it. well Pythogria could be potential ally. but so could Asbena. why not just build 30 and have all 3 of us give 1 third of the cost.

So I can target it with a small surface action fleet and sink it, proving it's weaknesses. Do you honestly think that this thing is a viable weapon, or really, viable anything?

umm who am going to side with. give a some time to think about it. well Pythogria could be potential ally. but so could Asbena. why not just build 30 and have all 3 of us give 1 third of the cost.

That works well.

1010102 - Its not wise to spread such a potent and powerful tech around too far. Its more to make sure that as few people get it as possible, like nukes.

Velk - Surface ships....AHAHAHA with the armor its pathetic still. These things just run down other ships! They cut right through them, even a Super Dreadnought will be COMPLETELY totaled if the carrier slams into it.

less of a strain on all of our budgets. it will go forward if Asbena aggress.

less of a strain on all of our budgets. it will go forward if Asbena aggress.

I rather not, but I'd go for 75% funding on this project to make sure that the tech stays close. >.>

Asbena]1010102 - Its not wise to spread such a potent and powerful tech around too far. Its more to make sure that as few people get it as possible, like nukes.

snip


but if only 3 nations have it whats the harm? and if we become allies then theres no harm done.

Technically 4 (Though Kjata is retired and is PMT), but whatever. I just don't like people latching onto a tech that is my ace for destroying the most powerful ships in the NS world.

I'm getting this tech, whether anyone likes it or not. If i have to, I will pay 100%.

Technically 4 (Though Kjata is retired and is PMT), but whatever. I just don't like people latching onto a tech that is my ace for destroying the most powerful ships in the NS world.

if we ally we will have 30 of these. we will have an unstopable navy that will be feared and respected throughout ns.

I'm getting this tech, whether anyone likes it or not. If i have to, I will pay 100%.

No one is saying you can't develope it on your own....but I like things localized.

thats why we should ally to keep thing localized. you in Pythogria? we could be unstopable.

if we ally we will have 30 of these. we will have an unstopable navy that will be feared and respected throughout ns.

The carriers need groups to, hardly feared and respected...but definately a powerful force.

thats why we should ally to keep thing localized. you in Pythogria? we could be unstopable.

Well, I don't know about unstoppable, but sure, I'm in!

good now what about Asbena. you want it local if we ally it will be local.

good now what about Asbena. you want it local if we ally it will be local.

Sure. Let's do it.

good.

I have many strange idea set-ups for the ships, but remember they are really limited to cold water use, Anything about 57 degrees will melt the Pykrete, meaning your cooling systems will need to be stepped up alot.

what about we make it with 2 hull plates that are 3 feet apart with that space filled with fiberglass insalation to keep it cool enough not to melt. that would aslo mean that it could go into the tropics no problem.

what about we make it with 2 hull plates that are 3 feet apart with that space filled with fiberglass insalation to keep it cool enough not to melt. that would aslo mean that it could go into the tropics no problem.

Yes, that works very well.

I can't believe it. W're designing a floating refridgerator of doom.

i never thought of it that way.........................

Actually even several inches will do it. Then armor on the outside will add to the effect. It is very easy to keep it cool, its not like the cold air will escape easily.

good point. but still the more the better.

good point. but still the more the better.

Too much is unnessary and adds to the cost. :P

ok make 4 inches then.

Too much is unnessary and adds to the cost. :P

Asbena is correct. We don't want too much. How about 3/4 foot of it?

that might be tomuch

that might be tomuch

Yes, 5 inches then.

wow 12 pages in less than 6 hours

wow 12 pages in less than 6 hours

First popular thread. Congrats!

k thats better.

Asbena will be using Metal Storm weaponry on the carriers of course, anyone use it to?

Asbena will be using Metal Storm weaponry on the carriers of course, anyone use it to?

We always use Metal Storm.

10 bucks that by the next big war everybody will have some of these.

10 bucks that by the next big war everybody will have some of these.

You know, with alll the imatators and such... yeah. But oh well. Interesting!

ya lets just put metal storm for the 50 cals.

ya lets just put metal storm for the 50 cals.

That works. But I say we use 25" guns.

ya lets just put metal storm for the 50 cals.

Well I use the full box set up and use it to slam down missiles in the same exact spot after seconds of the last explosion, effectively blasting a chain reaction into the same point to pierce and destroy ships. :)

That works. But I say we use 25" guns.

Too powerful and too dangerous. Its a carrier not a battleship.

lets keep the 4.5 " for AAA fire and 8" by the control tower.

Too powerful and too dangerous. Its a carrier not a battleship.

Perhaps it could be a battlecarrier?

how about a battleship made out of this stuff.

how about a battleship made out of this stuff.

A battlecarrier is a mixture of aircraft carrier and battleship...

I know that. but what i'm saying is why not a battleship out of this stuff?

I know that. but what i'm saying is why not a battleship out of this stuff?

That would work too.

aslong as it was lower the water it could work... and be nearly invicble.

When I can put about 200 missiles in the same spot that 25" gun is?

aslong as it was lower the water it could work... and be nearly invicble.

Wow. Flkoating refridgerators with BIG GUNS which are of doom!

When I can put about 200 missiles in the same spot that 25" gun is?

You could put them somewhere else...

on which the battle ship or the carrier.

On either. :P

well i quess on the carrier we could fit them on the sides and front and back.

well i quess on the carrier we could fit them on the sides and front and back.

Yes, very easily.

Finally a ship that costs 1/100th the armament it stores! XD

thats because the material is so cheap.

i made this a secret R&D thread.

Same.

Just keep your iceberg carrier away from the titanic and nobody gets hurt...

Three things which are guaranteed to sink this puppy:

1.) Heated shells
2.) Incendiary ammunition
3.) Thermite warhead (bomb or cruise missile, your pick)

Either of those will melt through the ice and the steel hull, effectively sinking the carrier. Good luck.

What is the point in a battleship or a carrier that moves at 10 knots? You can't run anything down Asbena, if they're moving 3 times your speed..

...I say we have a wargame against...say...a superdreadnought of the 3rd Naval Defense Fleet against one of these supposdly "invincible" warships.

that can be arranged when the ship is finished.

Thermite will melt thru it...It still won't sink it's ice...Just Nape it (Napalm)...It'll melt...And nothing will be on deck during that conflagaration
Also HE rounds will blow huge chunks out of it...Making it unusable as a carrier for awhile

there is armor on the sides,and the flight deck.

Thermite will melt thru it...It still won't sink it's ice...Just Nape it (Napalm)...It'll melt...And nothing will be on deck during that conflagaration
Also HE rounds will blow huge chunks out of it...Making it unusable as a carrier for awhile

Due to its massive size thermite won't work well. You can launch planes from almost any direction off this thing. Its so massive that if you burned through the flight deck that it could be repaired in just 2 hours!

and to all those people who are saying thermite well try looking this stuff up and you will see that any use of this is just wsteful because of the amount needed would be so incredibly high that it would be better just to nuke it.because it only works well in confined spaces and i don't think that the flight deck of this ship is a confined space.

What is the point in a battleship or a carrier that moves at 10 knots? You can't run anything down Asbena, if they're moving 3 times your speed..

10 knots for a propeller driven ship? Last I checked SDs cannot get away from it, with water jets it would go even faster, if you went all out you could probably hit 20-25 knots on this thing and using the current for extra speed, slam into the ships in close combat.

More on the incendiary rounds.....Its not ice anymore, its a strong as concrete! Your bullets and bombs will only do a little damage because as soon as it melts it will resolidify (and thats if you broke through the armor plating on it!)

Just nuke it then. That's why building an invincible ship is stupid because there is only ONE option available to you (although I have a number of confidential ideas) Secondly, you would never get 20-25 knots on an iceberg carrier. Don't be ridiculous. Thirdly, most modern NS battleships move in excess of 30 knots.

it works better in confined spaces. at least thats what my science teacher and wiki say.

I trust the IJN over Wikipedia. Oh yeah, and you think ice will resolidify into concrete? That's just funny. Even if it did, the properties are so different the ship would just.. I don't know what would happen, but it wouldn't be pretty.

Just nuke it then. That's why building an invincible ship is stupid because there is only ONE option available to you (although I have a number of confidential ideas) Secondly, you would never get 20-25 knots on an iceberg carrier. Don't be ridiculous. Thirdly, most modern NS battleships move in excess of 30 knots.

Nuking is the only real option to destroy this yes. Though the same could be said about the SDs. It may be slow, but my version will be a massive missile boat also.

Also....don't forget that nukes on ships are very weak! Unless its a direct hit, don't expect it to sink and even then its so massive it could survive unless it was a major weapon.

Though with the threat of a nuclear war....would you be the first to fire nukes? You destroy this cheap and easily made ship....and your nation gets glassed.

ya in a war after the planned 30 of these are completed thats a force to be reckoned with.

I trust the IJN over Wikipedia. Oh yeah, and you think ice will resolidify into concrete? That's just funny. Even if it did, the properties are so different the ship would just.. I don't know what would happen, but it wouldn't be pretty.

Its not ice....its Pykrete which is as strong as concrete. It can easily resolidify and because it is so immune to heat it can actually survive much much much longer then ice. (I believe that its exponentional based on density and size, with the first blocks outlasting ice by 2.5 - 6 times in 80 degrees F.) Its a nasty material to go up against, not immune to all, but all is very weak against its size and power.

I'm surprise that people haven't just dismissed this a a godmode

I'd still trust IJN anti air specialists over your science teacher.

'Pykrete is a composite material made of approximately 14 percent sawdust or some other form of wood pulp (such as paper) and 86 percent ice by weight.'

It's not as strong as concrete, its missing some of the most basic construction materials of concrete and what makes concrete strong.

Secondly, you can destroy SDs with guns and missiles and torpedoes, though it may be hard. What you are proposing here is something that *cannot* be destroyed by conventional means.

Your idea of a nuke is different to mine. You are probably thinking ofa tacnuke. I would use a 20 megaton thermonuclear device.

you do realize that those materials can be added you know and that would make it much stronger.

ya in a war after the planned 30 of these are completed thats a force to be reckoned with.

You could build many many more! The maintaince costs for the ships is so little that its less then 1% for the ship itself, and the reactors will cost $160 million for 80 MW every 30 years!

Its something that large nations don't need or want to use, but the small nations can seriously do damage with these ships. Just remember....no matter what you will be spending much much much more then it costs to destroy it with no planes housed.

For just 7 F-22's you have a ship that dwarfs the Nimitz carrier and has Pykrete armor twice as thick as the width of the ship itself! The flight deck is also over a hundred feet ABOVE the Nimitz with the tower stretching to 250 feet about that! Your dealing with a NASTY ship, it can take many hits and keep on going. Its the cheap version of the SD.

I'd still trust IJN anti air specialists over your science teacher.

'Pykrete is a composite material made of approximately 14 percent sawdust or some other form of wood pulp (such as paper) and 86 percent ice by weight.'

It's not as strong as concrete, its missing some of the most basic construction materials of concrete and what makes concrete strong.

Secondly, you can destroy SDs with guns and missiles and torpedoes, though it may be hard. What you are proposing here is something that *cannot* be destroyed by conventional means.

Your idea of a nuke is different to mine. You are probably thinking ofa tacnuke. I would use a 20 megaton thermonuclear device.

Pykrete is as strong as concrete, the military model they showed deflected a bullet when it was shot at, thus grazing the leg of the person he was trying to impress (LUCKILY) and its power was realized. It DEFLECTED A BULLET.

yes but thats just the intial plans I might build 100 more for all you know.

No, 10, you can't add concrete to a ship.

And I have a whole complement of thermonuclear weaponry that could rip apart anything as it hits. Secondly, a 'small nation' would NOT be able to build the neccessary equipment to construct it.

A hundred? Where the fuck are you going to keep them?

yes but thats just the intial plans I might build 100 more for all you know.

For the cost of a single Nimitz you can pump out 5 of these babies and maintain them for less then half of that of a Nimitz. It is capable of multiple rolls and multiple design features, from tiny escorts to massive battleships to the gods of all carriers.

Questers

No, 10, you can't add concrete to a ship.
snip



not concrecte the stuff that makes it strong! like stones,gravel,and sand.

But then it will turn into concrete..

No, 10, you can't add concrete to a ship.

And I have a whole complement of thermonuclear weaponry that could rip apart anything as it hits. Secondly, a 'small nation' would NOT be able to build the neccessary equipment to construct it.

A hundred? Where the fuck are you going to keep them?


They are as strong as concrete...and weigh less then water so it floats. Tough shit, its the properties of the Pykrete that allow this to be possible. Why do you think we are so behind this idea!

Actually to build this (like I did) you need about 3-4 NS years to acquire the massive cooling systems to make sheets of the pykrete in massive blocks (by spraying) and you can chug out 300 foot blocks of Pykrete and assemble them in the water after the base is completed. The ship is so massive that you could infact store the refrigeration system and just pull water up into it and build it on site! Its amazing! Though I am more for the making the massive heavy blocks and constructing them from that. (Like the super structure which has 50 foot solid blocks.)

Also...its so massive and it doesn't require much out in the oceans....why not just keep them there? Its like saying you need to dock a nuclear submarine unless its out doing a mission, you don't NEED to. The ships are so massive that you can't dock them all anyways...only a few could be unless you have massive docks (Over 1 mile in length and they have to be deep water docks). This is why you land massive cargo planes with bombs and food and other supplies as needed.

But then it will turn into concrete..

The Pykrete is as strong as concrete...it doesn't need anything else with the armor plating....It floats it works. Adding concrete to it is a STUPID ideas (it will sink if you do that and will be so expensive you couldn't do it)

Oh btw....you can land a An-225 Mriya on this thing. (Which is the worlds largest aircraft!) You could hold them if you built a large enough elevator! Though I like my fighters and bombers being held inside better....makes it cheaper.

Each one of these carriers is has an area of 221,858 squared metrs.

That's 22,185,200 square metres - aka 22 THOUSAND square kilometres JUST for a hundred of these ships. That is what I meant.

Just because its lighter than water doesn't mean it floats. Buoyancy is when the object weighs the same amount it displaces.

Its massive and it definately works...remember they produced a scale model for it? Ours is just a variatant on it, besides with computers today we can easily test to see what works and what won't work. :P

exactly so we know what works and what doesn't.

exactly so we know what works and what doesn't.

Yes...that's what I said. Have a cookie! *gives 1010102 a super cookie*

Also with the size you could convert this from carrier to missile boat in just a month or two. :P Just avoid destroying it unless you want a massive tidal wave to sweep across the NS world.

yay!!!!! cookies!

btw Asbena i will tg you some plans i have for some other ship types that could be made with this stuff.

yay!!!!! cookies!

btw Asbena i will tg you some plans i have for some other ship types that could be made with this stuff.

Could you TG me with that as well?

ok you'll get the plans to.

yay!!!!! cookies!

btw Asbena i will tg you some plans i have for some other ship types that could be made with this stuff.

Sure alright, though just make sure they are feasible. ^-^

Asbena, want to be allies? We could call this he "Iceberg Federation".

Asbena, want to be allies? We could call this he "Iceberg Federation".
Sure. Just need a new thread for it. :D

iceberg federation. lol.

iceberg federation. lol.

Misleading name and interesting to. I like it. :)

This is such a stupid idea, and you are too stubborn and ignorant to realize it. I could render this a frozen tomb with a sqaudron of carrier aircraft simply by disabling the engines with anti-shipping missiles and knocking the sensors out with SMDs.

This is such a stupid idea, and you are too stubborn and ignorant to realize it. I could render this a frozen tomb with a sqaudron of carrier aircraft simply by disabling the engines with anti-shipping missiles and knocking the sensors out with SMDs.

Ya sure....no chance your missiles can hit my water jet systems and only the outside engines for propulsion is down in the water in a place you can't see them on 1010102's ship.

Since we are all using metal storm systems.....your missiles will be destroyed along with your planes before they even get close. The sensors....how? I don't see how you could knock them out when they are in the ship.

What the hell is metal storm? It's really not hard to destroy propulsion systems with the proper missiles, either.

http://www.metalstorm.com/

That's there main page, check it out and look around. Its a godlike technology also.

http://www.metalstorm.com/

That's there main page, check it out and look around. Its a godlike technology also.

Even Metalstorm, as impressive as it is, cannot destroy tens of thousands of missiles. Combined with naval gunfire and submarine-launched torpedoes, especially the larger NS-Designed type, and this carrier would be destroyed.