NationStates Jolt Archive

1. Of course saying I got it in the first minute is absurd. And I see you agree that the last minute is equally absurd. So it's fine. It's already taken NS hours, at least.

2.They're not connected to CAMERA, per se. They're generating random numbers in spare time, e-mailing them to some of the computers set up underground, which form a kind of queue.

3. They're not. They're just generating random possible passwords. Actually, not TRULY random. They won't repeat the same number once they've generated it.

4. "The password is made up of eleven characters, each one out of 190 possible characters (counting alt, shift, alt+shift, and spacebar). This gives us a total of approximately 1.165 x 10^25 choices, or 11.65 septillion (about 11,650,000,000,000,000,000,000,000). So yeah... it ought to take a while. lol"

The implication here, Isselmere, in this TG from Czardas, is plainly that there is one password. Besides, fake logins can be generated.

This is pathetic. This RP is going nowhere to be frank. I've not seen much posting on the CAD side (I know a couple of you are having computer problems, though). We really need to pick this up because this really has failed at the rate it is going.

120 AA guns, 16 miniguns, 16 torpedo tubes, 12 12-inch guns, 8 18-inch guns, 6 24-inch guns, 4 Abaddon launchers, 32 Vanquisher ASuW missiles, 48 Spearhunter missiles, and 4 Colossus railguns; three patrol ships and four attack helicopters.
Length: 1465 ft Speed: 30 knots

(needless to say, the ship carries stores of ammunition; missiles and the like. Firing the 32 Vanquisher missiles from above would not exhaust its capability. And just in case the AA number seems excessive, WWII battleships had over 100.)
That's because missiles weren't really prevalent until after World War II. As long as you have AA missiles, you don't *need* nearly that many AA guns. The sheer number plus the ammunition storage and other issues involved would take away space that can be better used by other weapons systems or fire control or fuel or crew stores or... you get the idea.

You have too many guns of similar calibres (you *really* don't need 24 inchers, 18 inchers, AND 12 inchers on the same class). You're just asking for fire control problems if you do that. You're also cramming way too many weapons in what's quite frankly a smallish ship for NS purposes.

The implication here, Isselmere, in this TG from Czardas, is plainly that there is one password. Besides, fake logins can be generated.
Absolutely correct, The Warmaster, my mistake.

I'm sorry I haven't posted in a while. My parents are insisting that I spend my time doing things like "having fun" instead of spending hours on the computer. Fools. :rolleyes:

I'll post when possible. Really.

This is pathetic. This RP is going nowhere to be frank. I've not seen much posting on the CAD side (I know a couple of you are having computer problems, though). We really need to pick this up because this really has failed at the rate it is going.

Yeah. It's not anybody's fault though. Questers and Taldaan, I replied to both your naval attacks, having returned fire after you attacked first. Czardas, I know you're working on a Battle of Czarna reply. I don't know if anybody replied to Banduria's attacks in Tyriandor, or if he's even made any. I'm encouraging Freudotopia to begin a naval fight with those guarding Port Khufi, but to do that he needs Skinny87 at least, and whoever else is in that area, to be active. Parthia is waiting on the Battle of Czarna same as me. So both sides have some blame here.

I want this to continue as best it can. So if it all possible, let's all pick this up. Nobody wants to have to say, "Uhm...I was fighting this war but...I kind of got inactive and it died." I don't want this to die, and I hope nobody else does. So while I'm not suggesting this get priority over RL, I do suggest that we all get this together.

That's because missiles weren't really prevalent until after World War II. As long as you have AA missiles, you don't *need* nearly that many AA guns. The sheer number plus the ammunition storage and other issues involved would take away space that can be better used by other weapons systems or fire control or fuel or crew stores or... you get the idea.

You have too many guns of similar calibres (you *really* don't need 24 inchers, 18 inchers, AND 12 inchers on the same class). You're just asking for fire control problems if you do that. You're also cramming way too many weapons in what's quite frankly a smallish ship for NS purposes.

All right. I'll strip down the number of AA guns. Thanks for the advice. And would you advise then a different gun setup (like 24/16/6?)

Some one asked for SD stats...

Inexorable-Class super-dreadnought:

30 point defense miniguns, caliber .50

24 torpedo tubes

14 28" guns

14 18"

14 8"

96 missile launchers (36 STA, 12 ballistic, 36 general purpose offensive, 12 bunker-buster launchers)

Length 1620 ft.

Speed: 32 knots

And Sarzonia, just because you designed virtually every ship on NS doesn't give you the right to critique mine! *shakes fist in jealous rage*

That's because missiles weren't really prevalent until after World War II. As long as you have AA missiles, you don't *need* nearly that many AA guns. The sheer number plus the ammunition storage and other issues involved would take away space that can be better used by other weapons systems or fire control or fuel or crew stores or... you get the idea.

You have too many guns of similar calibres (you *really* don't need 24 inchers, 18 inchers, AND 12 inchers on the same class). You're just asking for fire control problems if you do that. You're also cramming way too many weapons in what's quite frankly a smallish ship for NS purposes.
Stop giving them advice, I want to win! *shakes fist*

Nah, it's ok. ;)

I'm going to be in Greece for the next couple of days so I probably wont be able to post anything until Saturday at the earliest. Sorry.

All right. I'll strip down the number of AA guns. Thanks for the advice. And would you advise then a different gun setup (like 24/16/6?)
You don't need the 16 inchers. The six inchers are OK.

OOC: I don't want to be a stiff about this, but I don't want this thread to roll over and die either. So, I know Czardas is travelling, but Skinny needs to post. If he doesn't, I'm ignoring whatever fleet he says is there, and assaulting Port Khufi with everything I have in an effort to jumpstart this whole thing.

Sorry Czardas. I'm worried that this thread might be dead by the time you get active again, so I gotta do what I gotta do.
Number one, why did you post this in the IC thread?

Number two, after you'd been away for several days if not WEEKS, you're talking about ignoring Skinny87 for not posting when he has RL issues? That's more than a little hypocritical. Like he said, you should have TG'd him to find out what's going on.

You don't need the 16 inchers. The six inchers are OK.

Are you sure? I mean, I don't want to be caught with just really big and standard-sized shells. But I suppose there's no harm.

Are you sure? I mean, I don't want to be caught with just really big and standard-sized shells. But I suppose there's no harm.
You wouldn't be "caught" with anything, really. Six inches may actually be a bit much for a secondary armament, but it's fine to have just the sixes and the 24s. The 16 inch guns with 24s just causes too many problems with fire control. That's a main reason nations stopped using more than one main armament. A 16 inch gun is a main armament, not a secondary weapon.

You'd be able to store more ammunition for your other weapons if you ditched the 16 inchers. Also, you should really limit the torpedo tubes. IRL, battleships didn't have them because of the risks involved if they exploded. In NS, things are a bit different, but not so much that you should have more than something like eight torpedo tubes.

Gotcha.

I'm here... sort of.

My fleet composition: (all vessels are either Sarzonian designs or refits of RL designs)

Mauvasian Imperial Republican Navy [MIRNa] Taskforce 125

Flagship: MIRS Foxhound [Avenger class Pocket Super-Dreadnought]

Capital ships: [42]
Battleships
8x Atlantic Class Trimaran Large Battleship
10x Sea Class Nuclear Powered Battlecruiser
Aircraft Carriers
4x Valiant Class Trimaran Hyper-Carrier
10x Nimitz Class Nuclear Powered Aircraft Carrier
10x Charles De Gaulle Class Nuclear Powered Aircraft Carrier

Escorts: [253]
Major Surface Combatants
10x Oceania Class Large Escort Vessel
16x Commandant Class Trimaran Guided Missile Cruiser
16x Ticonderoga II AEGIS Nuclear Powered Cruiser
12x Agamemnon Class Arsenal Ship
Minor Surface Combatants
30x Johnston Class Anti-Air Destroyer
30x McDonough Class Anti-Submarine Frigate
15x Wixted Class Stealth Frigate
15x Mahan Class Xebec
32x Seminole Class Corvette
20x Peligro Class Amphibious Assault Vessel
32x Quay Class Amphibious Assault and Replenishment Vessel
25x Stills Class Support Patrol Boat

Submergibles: [76]
16x Poseidon Class SSAN
60x Navarre Class SSN

Logistical Ships: [77]
10x Pasteur Class Hospital Ship
20x Curie Class Light Medical Vessel
15x McIntosh Class Very Large Cargo Carrier
32x Lake Class MCDV (mine clearance)

[Total Vessels: 448]

As I am kind of a newb, I'd appreciate input on my fleet composition and such. For instance, am I too heavy on capital ships? too light on submarines or logistical ships? both? Also, Sarzonia, is the Quay class a logistical or combat vessel, or both? I wasn't too sure on that bit.

Parthia are you going to reply in the south because if your not I'm going to go ahead and start my amphibious landing/assualt and other plans?

Parthia are you going to reply in the south because if your not I'm going to go ahead and start my amphibious landing/assualt and other plans?

Where exactly, SU? Could you TG me the location so I can plan ahead?

Parthia are you going to reply in the south because if your not I'm going to go ahead and start my amphibious landing/assualt and other plans?

I have airborne troops in the south SU. Can you TG me any landing plans so we could possibly link up?

I have airborne troops in the south SU. Can you TG me any landing plans so we could possibly link up?

TGed. :)

Freud: Hey, can you give me the stats for those fighters of yours?

By the way, does anyone have some troops to spare to Czarna? I kind of need some help there... (unless you skipped over my last post in its entirety due to its length... <.< >.>)

I've got your back Czardas, I knew these forces left from the first war would come in handy, oh, Czardas, can you say "Insta-Moat"? :P

By the way, does anyone have some troops to spare to Czarna? I kind of need some help there... (unless you skipped over my last post in its entirety due to its length... <.< >.>)

I'm already bringing in fighter aircrafts to give you air support/cover. I'll start strategic bombing later.

Yes, why? ;)

Also... this is all really one big war, separated by long stretches of naval deployments (ho hum) and peace conferences (booooring), so really I ought to still be a nation of 1.5 billion odd with a 'Thriving' economy and $4 trillion military budget... the key word here is ought. No-one plays it that way. :p

Good good, but you may want to edit your map to include a nice river just 1km west of Czarna.

Ah, how I love my 52 and 13 ton yield conventional bombs. :P

Good good, but you may want to edit your map to include a nice river just 1km west of Czarna.
/poof/ Consider it done. There is now a massive canal there supplying the water to those trenches outside the city containing all the piranhas, electric eels, and leftovers of Warmaster's tanks.

I love variable maps. ;)

not yet dork :p

Wait till I'm done attacking, you'll have the wide man made moat ever. :P

By the way, does anyone have some troops to spare to Czarna? I kind of need some help there... (unless you skipped over my last post in its entirety due to its length... <.< >.>)

Heh...sorry...just remembered I put 50,000 of my troops into Czarna ages ago. Assume they've been fighting anyway, and I'll post when I can.

Oh...Freudotopia said in his latest post that he's assuming the laws of physics and that some of my sub-fired missiles have gone off course. He can't do that, right? If I say they were fired at his ships, they are fired at his ships...right?

Ok, ok, fine... ¬_¬

Heh...sorry...just remembered I put 50,000 of my troops into Czarna ages ago. Assume they've been fighting anyway, and I'll post when I can.

Oh...Freudotopia said in his latest post that he's assuming the laws of physics and that some of my sub-fired missiles have gone off course. He can't do that, right? If I say they were fired at his ships, they are fired at his ships...right?
Correct. They are guided missiles, and unless snow interferes with missile guidance (which I highly doubt), they will continue to be guided straight into his ships. Unless of course all of his ships are approximately the size of a small unarmed rowboat each, in which case there's a chance the missiles will fail to detect the targets and veer off course.

Correct. They are guided missiles, and unless snow interferes with missile guidance (which I highly doubt), they will continue to be guided straight into his ships. Unless of course all of his ships are approximately the size of a small unarmed rowboat each, in which case there's a chance the missiles will fail to detect the targets and veer off course.

Thanks. Just wanted to make sure. I'm getting a tad pissed off with him at the moment...

Uhm, TSS... good post, but you do realise that you've just created your moat directly to the west of Czarna, not around the city itself? Or was that intentional?

I don't have enough bombs to make a moat all the way around the city yet, but it should be about 1km from your front lines around the city streching from the southwest to north, so technically it's around half of the city.

And jolt ate my post earlier so I had to hurry cause I was going out for lunch, I'm going to go put some more detail in now.

Ah, ok. Yeah, the weather could be kind of important for one thing... :p

I'm leaving for the day myself soon, but I may be back tonight to respond.

Heh...sorry...just remembered I put 50,000 of my troops into Czarna ages ago. Assume they've been fighting anyway, and I'll post when I can.

Oh...Freudotopia said in his latest post that he's assuming the laws of physics and that some of my sub-fired missiles have gone off course. He can't do that, right? If I say they were fired at his ships, they are fired at his ships...right?

You said that they were literally flying right above the waves. Thus, the slipstream of a missile that low, especially one executing random maneuvers, is going to create much more turbulence than if you had fired the missiles on a more conventional trajectory. Thus, some of the ones in the rear will be off course. Maybe not by much, but they won't go where your targetting computers said they would.

Correct. They are guided missiles, and unless snow interferes with missile guidance (which I highly doubt), they will continue to be guided straight into his ships. Unless of course all of his ships are approximately the size of a small unarmed rowboat each, in which case there's a chance the missiles will fail to detect the targets and veer off course.

That would be the case, if Skinny hadn't specifically posted that the missiles were flying ridiculously low. Every situation has its advantages and disadvantages. I can't track those missiles on radar, but the turbulence will be great enough to disrupt their course, unless they are continually corrected via radio transmissions from a satellite or the ships (the latter I doubt, because once again, the missiles are very low). And even if the guidance systems on the missile were that advanced, they would still be getting slightly off course every few seconds. You have to take the disadvantages of low-flying missiles along with the advantages.

And as far as I knew, it was a rainstorm. Thats the only thing I ever RPed in my previous post attacking PK. It was supposed to be the same storm system that had passed over Czarna during Warmaster's attack.

Still, Freudotopia, suggesting that another players missiles have veered off course is stating another RPers losses, which is contrary to existing conventions. Also, there are missiles that travel at low level, are GPS guided, and have respectable accuracy rates despite flying diversionary routes (e.g. RBS15).

Another thing to note is how you have detected the Skinnian air strike so soon after it had taken off. If they were detected via radar, I'd be amazed, if by satellite, then I'd assume that the same front covering your fleet is covering theirs. Same goes for the Skinnian missiles. You can assume they would fire long range missiles, you can assume that Skinny87 will launch an air attack, but to know both presumes unmatched satellite and/or radar coverage, which may cut both ways.

You said that they were literally flying right above the waves. Thus, the slipstream of a missile that low, especially one executing random maneuvers, is going to create much more turbulence than if you had fired the missiles on a more conventional trajectory. Thus, some of the ones in the rear will be off course. Maybe not by much, but they won't go where your targetting computers said they would.

Listen up. The manouver is called 'Pop-up' and is used by the US navy and god knows how many more. If I say that all of them are aimed at your vessels, then they are. If some of them were screwed up, I would have said. So they will all be targeting your ships perfectly. I'll brook no argument about this, and I expect you to state that they all get to their targets. Whether they hit, of course, is up to your defences.

Still, Freudotopia, suggesting that another players missiles have veered off course is stating another RPers losses, which is contrary to existing conventions. Also, there are missiles that travel at low level, are GPS guided, and have respectable accuracy rates despite flying diversionary routes (e.g. RBS15).

Another thing to note is how you have detected the Skinnian air strike so soon after it had taken off. If they were detected via radar, I'd be amazed, if by satellite, then I'd assume that the same front covering your fleet is covering theirs. Same goes for the Skinnian missiles. You can assume they would fire long range missiles, you can assume that Skinny87 will launch an air attack, but to know both presumes unmatched satellite and/or radar coverage, which may cut both ways.

Actualy, that's a very good point. Thanks for pointing that out.

TSS, no biggie, but we need to sort some stuff out.

First off, am I understanding right that these bombs are digging under my troops and detonating? What then stops me from using the Hornet systems (which I am not making up, I can give you a link to my storefront which sells them), which detonate relatively small nuclear warheads underground to cause earthquakes or, at depths closer to the surface, simply blow up whatever's above them? They are a part of the Imperial standard arsenal and would be on the supply ships. Not to mention the fact that I don't think they would break the no WMD rule; the thing that causes damage is the earth-shaking, not the actual bomb. The bomb just sets it off, and the radiation would hang around underground.

Second, I can't trawl back through the mass of Death to Democracy and Liberation posts, but I don't remember off the top of my head all these forces being here. Do you routinely station thousands of aircraft, as well as rail-mounted cruise missile launchers, in all your allies' territory? Not to mention a force of 1,844,000 troops? I mean, I know my forces are large, but I don't permanently station numbers like that in other countries.

Third, it seems that unless your missiles all have really long range, as my aircraft are between my SAMs and artillery batteries and your aircraft, our respective air armadas would be in range of each other before you were in range of the SAMs.

Just wondering.

1) I dunno, you'd have to bring it up with Czardas, it's his thread, I don't really care personally. :)

2) In a seperate thread before death to democracy I stationed all of these troops (Those headed towards Czarna are about 2/3 of total forces.), and throughout the DTD thread I stationed more, a real surge came after me and Doom became sorta aligned and my forces stepped aside. I presumed the would stay cause Czardas gave no move to kick them out. And I've been importing more troops from countries that are east of Czardas and through airlifts around the south.

3) Ranges for missiles:
Buzzsaw: 350km
Bumblebee: +80km
Bumblebee-ER: 220km
Starshell II AAMs: 200-300km

As for the SAMs they are:
Starlance: 250km
Thunderlance: 450km

What then stops me from using the Hornet systems (which I am not making up, I can give you a link to my storefront which sells them), which detonate relatively small nuclear warheads underground to cause earthquakes or, at depths closer to the surface, simply blow up whatever's above them? They are a part of the Imperial standard arsenal and would be on the supply ships. Not to mention the fact that I don't think they would break the no WMD rule; the thing that causes damage is the earth-shaking, not the actual bomb. The bomb just sets it off, and the radiation would hang around underground.

Unfortunately, most states would view the use of nuclear devices of any sort (including depleted uranium APFSDS rounds in some instances) as the use of WMD especially as such would have serious consequences with respect to groundwater, aquifers, farming, construction of any sort, etc. Hell, if firms have to block off land occupied by former gas stations for several months because of petroleum products contamination, I'd hate to see how long it would take for a sub-surface nuclear blast. Indeed, the closer to the ground it is, the bigger risk it poses to everyone, including your own forces. That written, how about a conventional weapon that performs a similar function? Not as powerful, but it would work. First, however, your troops would have to detect such devices, then destroy them.

Oh...Freudotopia said in his latest post that he's assuming the laws of physics and that some of my sub-fired missiles have gone off course. He can't do that, right? If I say they were fired at his ships, they are fired at his ships...right?
Absolutely correct. Freudotopia, I *strongly* suggest you stop Godmoding. What you are doing is stating what happens to someone else's forces which is an absolute no-no. I remember you said something about not wanting other RPers to comment on what either you or The Warmaster are doing as RPers. If you don't want that, maybe you should re-evaluate whether or not you want to continue RPing here. If someone does something wrong, they're going to get called on it. Period.

Second, I specifically asked at the very beginning of this RP that there were to be NO NUKES. I don't care if it's tactical or what, no nukes is no nukes is no nukes.

Absolutely correct. Freudotopia, I *strongly* suggest you stop Godmoding. What you are doing is stating what happens to someone else's forces which is an absolute no-no. I remember you said something about not wanting other RPers to comment on what either you or The Warmaster are doing as RPers. If you don't want that, maybe you should re-evaluate whether or not you want to continue RPing here. If someone does something wrong, they're going to get called on it. Period.

Second, I specifically asked at the very beginning of this RP that there were to be NO NUKES. I don't care if it's tactical or what, no nukes is no nukes is no nukes.

Thanks for the back-up Sarz, nice of you. I also hate nukes of anykind so pointless and N00bish.

Sarz - MSN at all?

EDIT: MSN in about 30 Mins, sorry, dinner.

All right, all right, no nukes...I didn't want them either, you know. In the beginning of DtD I said so myself. The Hornets' purpose is uncompromised so long as they set off a huge explosion underground. But I will TG Czardas if and when I use them.

Freudotopia is making a mistake, yes. I assume he's just saying that in RL, some of them would go off course. How about this. I don't know how many missiles Skinny fired, but lets say it's 800. He's saying they all go on target. Now, it accomodates Freud's valid realization that in RL some would miss to just say that instead of 800, he launches 820 and twenty go off course. Or you could not accept this, which I would understand because it is a breach of etiquette.

TSS, thanks for the ranges, but I hope you see what I'm saying. If you're targeting my SAMs, which are behind my aircraft, then you must be in range of my own aircrafts' missiles.

I forgot to mention before that your troops also are approaching from the northeast. They can’t be, because I occupied that territory, and you'd have to pass near the Palma garrison. If your point is that it’s more east than northeast, that involves going through the region near Senazkerkia, which was burned to the ground in Death to Democracy. Passing through the burnt ruins of a forest would slow you down. Looking at Czardas's map of where forces are located, which is not perfect but still very useful, you have plants in the south and forces in the extreme northwest. So chronologically, to keep your post valid, your forces must have started moving a long time ago, which would of course give the forces at Czarna plenty of time to ready their reserves.

All right, all right, no nukes...I didn't want them either, you know. In the beginning of DtD I said so myself. The Hornets' purpose is uncompromised so long as they set off a huge explosion underground. But I will TG Czardas if and when I use them.

Freudotopia is making a mistake, yes. I assume he's just saying that in RL, some of them would go off course. How about this. I don't know how many missiles Skinny fired, but lets say it's 800. He's saying they all go on target. Now, it accomodates Freud's valid realization that in RL some would miss to just say that instead of 800, he launches 820 and twenty go off course. Or you could not accept this, which I would understand because it is a breach of etiquette.

TSS, thanks for the ranges, but I hope you see what I'm saying. If you're targeting my SAMs, which are behind my aircraft, then you must be in range of my own aircrafts' missiles.

I forgot to mention before that your troops also are approaching from the northeast. They can’t be, because I occupied that territory, and you'd have to pass near the Palma garrison. If your point is that it’s more east than northeast, that involves going through the region near Senazkerkia, which was burned to the ground in Death to Democracy. Passing through the burnt ruins of a forest would slow you down. Looking at Czardas's map of where forces are located, which is not perfect but still very useful, you have plants in the south and forces in the extreme northwest. So chronologically, to keep your post valid, your forces must have started moving a long time ago, which would of course give the forces at Czarna plenty of time to ready their reserves.

Yeah...really not going to accept the control of any of my forces, or firing extra misiles to suit anyone else's demands. In the NS world, with all the defense budgets, I think my missiles can be good enough to not go off course. If I wanted any to, I would have said so.

Absolutely correct. Freudotopia, I *strongly* suggest you stop Godmoding. What you are doing is stating what happens to someone else's forces which is an absolute no-no. I remember you said something about not wanting other RPers to comment on what either you or The Warmaster are doing as RPers. If you don't want that, maybe you should re-evaluate whether or not you want to continue RPing here. If someone does something wrong, they're going to get called on it. Period.

Second, I specifically asked at the very beginning of this RP that there were to be NO NUKES. I don't care if it's tactical or what, no nukes is no nukes is no nukes.

Woah, there, chief. What I said is based entirely on the laws of physics. I know that you know that breaking said laws is also a "no-no." I will edit that part of my post because I don't want to deal with you, but I still believe that I did no godmoding whatsoever. The amount of turbulence generated by 600 missiles flying just above the water is enough to disrupt even the most sophisticated guidance systems, unless they are constantly corrected via a satellite or ship-based transmission.

I'm not trying to dictate what happens to another player's missiles. I'm just insisting that the laws of physics are followed. Remember how much you complained that it was physically impossible for Warmaster to fit his however-many million men into Czarna? Same thing here. Don't preach to me. I know the rules of RPing in this forum, and just because you have more experience does not give you the right to assume that every controversial thing I say is either a godmode or my ignorance of RP etiquette.

If the missiles are remotely course-corrected, Skinny, just say so. I assumed that you would have said that in your initial post, since it's a pretty obvious potential problem.

Thank you for your time. I will now edit that post.

I forgot to mention before that your troops also are approaching from the northeast. They can’t be, because I occupied that territory, and you'd have to pass near the Palma garrison. If your point is that it’s more east than northeast, that involves going through the region near Senazkerkia, which was burned to the ground in Death to Democracy. Passing through the burnt ruins of a forest would slow you down. Looking at Czardas's map of where forces are located, which is not perfect but still very useful, you have plants in the south and forces in the extreme northwest. So chronologically, to keep your post valid, your forces must have started moving a long time ago, which would of course give the forces at Czarna plenty of time to ready their reserves.
Well, technically, I also have bases in the mountains near Viel because of the mines I own.

I could fix it so that they are south east and farther away(like around Redour?) if that's ok?

Well, technically, I also have bases in the mountains near Viel because of the mines I own.

I could fix it so that they are south east and farther away(like around Redour?) if that's ok?

That'd be awesome if you could, please. Thanks. You'd still be moving up on a flank from that direction anyway.

That'd be awesome if you could, please. Thanks. You'd still be moving up on a flank from that direction anyway.
Done :p

OOC: I'll try and post a big post today, but revision is taking a lot more time out of my day.

Im just giving official notice that I'm leaving this RP, mainly due to the massive amounts of godmoding that is going on. Be it millions of troops packed into tiny spaces taking almost no casualties to artillery bombardment and machineguns whilst their owner unilaterally claims victory, anti-tank missiles being shot down by crew-served machineguns, Banduria's insane economy, automaton-troops who love being shot at and generally have inverted-morale to regular humans or any other example of general craziness that has gone on during this RP, my will to continue has been sapped and what I originally intended to be a major part of my country's ongoing history has rapidly turned into something that is a chore to reply to (hence my replies have been sparse) and that I really don't want to be a part of anymore. Goodbye and goodluck to all you staying. I hope you can salvage something out of this mess.

Following on from what Praetonia said - and from my own experiences (and addictions to certain games over the past two weeks) I too am pulling out of this RP - I am retconning any Questarian involvement.

Aye I forgot to add that my involvement can also be considered retconned.

I'm going to agree here. We should just negotiate some kind of peace settlement and end the RP. Feel free to TG me with any ideas; this RP is just becoming an encumbrance to many of the participants and it would be better if we could just end it.

Also, I'm of a good mind to simply ignore all the major CAD participants for godmodding. Some of them haven't even shown up for a while now; I believe Yurka was sick and Banduria had comp problems, but still. Let's just negotiate an OOC way to end the RP and move on.

Jesus, that kind of hurts. But Praetonia, it's obvious you don't understand me. Let me explain.

For starters, I have been keeping track of casualties. Saying I'm not taking any is bullcrap. I have been using the pre-all night battle figure, true, but the point is my forces are way down from 6.7 million. Way down. Realistically, Czardas shouldn't have artillery and MG nests left. I have more mortar bearers in my army than he has MG nests or mortar emplacements, and I recently RPed a massive divebombing run by thousands of aircraft on his defenses, specifically targeting concentrations of troops and fortifications. Also, I thought we had resolved the issue about my post saying that I started to turn the tide. Ignore at will. It is ridiculous, incidentally, that I unilaterally claimed victory. Again, ignore it if that helps. I recognize that I made a mistake. I apologize.

My troops, Praetonia, have grown up in a culture that, for one, idolizes war. Imperial doctrine, which is practically indistinguishable from Imperial culture, regards war as a holy task of purification, specifically of 'infidels', or most other cultures. You cannot be bombarded by dogma all your life and be unresponsive to it. As for morale, sure, seeing one's comrades gunned down would depress anyone. But most soldiers would simply channel that to feed their hatred of the enemy. The Japanese in WWII would be a good example, by the way. One incident tells of a lone Japanese man charging an American trench, cutting the throat of a Navajo code talker and taking, according to the story, 25-40 rounds before falling. Racial hatred of the Czardaians, religious drive to kill them, and knowledge that their deaths serve one's country are a powerful propelling force indeed. But that is no defense against, say, a missile. If there's more explanation that you need, I will be happy to defend my IC posts regarding troop morale, etc.

Czardas, I already proposed a settlement to you involving compromise, and I have it ready if you want to discuss via TG. Or, the two of us, the main combatants, could continue the war (or hell, start it over, I don't care).

The reason I started Death to Democracy was because I had never completed a war; I had fought against both Jarridia and Vizion, but both conflicts were cut short. I don't want to add this to the list of sad dead threads. If there is any way to continue this, I'm open to suggestions.

Yeah, going on from Praetonia and Questers lead, I'm withdrawing from the RP for mass godmodding, failure to post most of the time, and Freudotopia being far too arrogant and godmodding for my tastes. For now consider my part in the RP at an end; I'll decide on whether to retcon later on. This RP took a major nosedive when most of the CAD forces started godmodding and taking unrealistic losses or just being plain weird. Banduria's insane fanatic troops and his unrealistic number of aircraft in the arena are an example. Warmasters WW1 style troop tactics without taking losses are another. Freudotopia's arrogant demands on my missiles and general writing skills are another. The RP has ben ruined.

I'm going to agree here. We should just negotiate some kind of peace settlement and end the RP. Feel free to TG me with any ideas; this RP is just becoming an encumbrance to many of the participants and it would be better if we could just end it.

Also, I'm of a good mind to simply ignore all the major CAD participants for godmodding. Some of them haven't even shown up for a while now; I believe Yurka was sick and Banduria had comp problems, but still. Let's just negotiate an OOC way to end the RP and move on.

I'd suggest a general withdrawal by all forces, retconning by whomever wishes it, and an end to this whole sorry affair.

And here I thought this would turn out to be one of the best RPs, but like so many before it, it has fallen apart. There really is no good war RPs anymore to be frank. Oh well....

I'm pulling out forces too.

Ditto, I too am pulling out everything, not only because of the large amounts of wanking going on but because I simply do not have the time, soccer, school, and my girlfriend are more paramount.

I don't know... I'll admit that I haven't seen the full extent of the godmodding, but I do agree that the actions undertaken by some parties on the CAD's side, from my observation, aren't really productive for the RP as a whole (for example, massing ten thousand planes within a few hours, and movements of very large forces in a very short amount of time). In the end, the ugly disputes that will result probably won't worth the effort to RP this further before the said dispute escalates.

Since Czardas had already spoken in regards to the godmoddings himself, I am pulling out. Partly for the reason above but most prominently because I simply don't have the time to continue my part in the RP (school and work are too overwhelming). I hope that we all could find an OOC resolution to this dispute as well as the RP itself without causing further bitterness.

Ok. This war is, to put it simply, over. Warmaster, you're free to TG me your proposed settlement if you want. I might consider retconning all the events of this roleplay and starting a new Liberation of Czardas thread, probably with much fewer participants, but if so I won't accept Warmaster's insane numbers of fanatical troops, Freudotopia's 30 super-dreadnaughts, or any of the other patent absurdities plaguing this war RP.

As of now, no foreign troops, equipment, or ships are in Czardaian soil or waters; with the exception of We Buy It Inc. troops guarding their plants and factories. Let's just say the "Liberation of Czardas" RP never occurred, and the Battle of Czarna was part of Death to Democracy. If you want we can negotiate peace terms OOCly and say that the roleplay ended at the peace conference, or whatever really. Up to the rest of you.

[OOC: Well... thanks anyway, everyone. This has been a very informative first roleplay, and while I didn't actually participate in a large way, I did see some good examples of what to do and what to avoid. Also; I'm guessing that the peace conference was not a particularly typical one? That is, in general they are slightly more relaxed, and neither side attempts to flaunt its power over the other. Or is that a wrong impression of mine?]

OOC: Fine, I'm out. I will not, however, retcon any activity in this thread. As far as I'm concerned, the WP killed this RP by refusing to listen to a lot of reasonable arguments, simply because said arguments did not necessarily fit into the WP school of thought. I've been accused of being arrogant, a bad RPer, and a poor writer. The last one is just plain stupid. Ask anyone who knows me, like GE or Borman.

I hopefully won't be roleplaying with anyone in the WP for a little while, but I bear no ill will. Just a bit of regret and dissappointment.

ooc: Well, seeing as most of the involved parties, including Czardas, want to kill off this RP, I'll go with it. But Freud, the WP can hardly be blamed for this. This situation has partly been caused by unresolved arguments, but mainly because of the vast numbers of players. With more than three from each alliance, Czardas, and several non-affiliated nations, this was always going to be tricky to manage.

OOC: Fine, I'm out. I will not, however, retcon any activity in this thread. As far as I'm concerned, the WP killed this RP by refusing to listen to a lot of reasonable arguments, simply because said arguments did not necessarily fit into the WP school of thought. I've been accused of being arrogant, a bad RPer, and a poor writer. The last one is just plain stupid. Ask anyone who knows me, like GE or Borman.

I hopefully won't be roleplaying with anyone in the WP for a little while, but I bear no ill will. Just a bit of regret and dissappointment.

I'll simply say that the WP weren't the ones mass godmodding and taking no losses or demanding people destroy missiles they fired. In fact, not one WP nation ever did anything other than RP. Anyway, it would seem everyone else is either ignoring this or retconning, like me, so you're on your own there.

What can I say? Regret and disapointment. Too many big players? Yes. Godmodding? Maybe (no fingers pointed, you know who you are). Consider all Ollish actions never to have happened. Sorry it turned out this way.

I'm also sorry this had to happen, and I hadn't planned to post more. But come on. Whether or not you agree with Freud's blaming the WP, look at this now. Personally I think it's incredibly arrogant to say things like "I'm not going to point any fingers, you [godmodders] know who you are." Nobody has said anything yet to make me think that people are godmodding. Or that "the WP weren't the ones mass godmodding and taking no losses..." Bullshit. I have indeed been taking losses, but a battle is not going to kill 10% of one army and 10% of the other. It is a certain number, not a certain percentage. And so while my losses may seem small against my total force, they correspond to Czardas's defenses. If you're referring to one of my allies' not taking losses, Freud never really engaged, Parthia was never attacked, and Banduria, I believe, had everything sorted out. And you'll notice that the WP side did more than RP. It brought up a storm of OOC activity that in my opinion detracted from the story. Consider Praetonia's and my exchange of large multi-point arguments. NS is about RPing, not about OOC issues. And this leads me to my true point. The reason this RP failed is because it was between large, powerful forces, each unwilling to give an inch because each believed the other wrong. This is the same thing that happened in the peace conference. Each side refuses to give up at all, and so the thing fails, because sooner or later one side loses patience.