NationStates Jolt Archive

I think that since this conflict is likely going to get very large, and since there are so many participants, I'll set up an OOC thread here, for any OOC posts regarding the Liberation of Czardas RP here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=473356).

Enjoy.

=========

List of Participants

Allies of Czardas
Sarzonia
Space Union
Skinny87
Isselmere
Praetonia
Ollieland
Taldaan
The Voltarum
The Silver Sky
Omz222

Enemies of Czardas
Doomingsland
Generic Empire
Borman Empire
Banduria
The Warmasters
The Parthians
Freudotopia
MassPwnage

Alrighty... count me in. Say, Omz, could you kee a tally of the participants and make links to any maps/pertinent information etc. that show up in this thread?

Alrighty... count me in. Say, Omz, could you kee a tally of the participants and make links to any maps/pertinent information etc. that show up in this thread?
Though it is basically CAD & allies vs. the Woodstock Pact, I'll try and see if I can come up with such a list. As for the pertinent information:

Invader's Guide to Czardas (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9866860#post9866860)
Czardaian Map (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/Mauvasia/Czardas_Map.jpg)
Background: Death to Democracy RP (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=448631)

If anyone can post their military information, it'll also be helpful; mine is all linked by my sig.

OOC: Working on a summary of all my forces in Czardas.

These are my initial forces in Czardas: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10521674&postcount=11

Alongside the Int'l Brigades, I have an Armoured Cavalry Brigade, the 24th, and an infantry Company that have landed with the Int'l Brigades. I also have three Carrier Groups in Czardian waters and two SDs as well.

I'll be bringing in more Divisions as the RP progresses, but that's all for now.

All of my military information is far too outdated. Therefore, this is a basic summary:

~120-150 warships remaining; 72-80 submergibles
~12,700 aircrafts remaining
~2.7 million combat troops [1,600,000 at Czarna, 550,000 at Ardaja, 50,000 at Port Khûfi, 500,000 in northern Czardas]
~1-4 million volunteer troops [1,000,000+ at Czarna, 250,000+ in south]

CAMERA missile defense system:
Covers some 50,000 launchers in Tyriandor, 75,000 in Aurdania, 60,000 in Port Khûfi, 70,000 in Mariosz (basically).

Other:
Assorted tanks, heavy artillery, mobile SAM batteries, and the like (mostly in southern Czardas, around Czarna and Zaïr river).

This good?

Any mind me joining in? :P Now that I've patched up stuff with Sarz I have no qualms about joining forces with the WP's armada's.

Oh, and according to when I was involved in the precedding Rp my nation is about 2000-2500km west from Czardas, I could be a staging point.

Oh, and Czardas, the reason I was gone was that I was busy with other RPs and my girlfriend, and although I do have soccer until later on weekdays my parents are usually gone so I have time to get post up.

Glad to have you on-side, TSS. I'll post my force composition tonight.

Yes TSS, you're free to join in. It might at least convince the Czardaians that your government has at least a small shred of decency left after your co-operation with the Doomies against Otagia around the time you decided to leave.

Although, I can understand your business. I recently got a life myself from the local K-Mart. It was a bargain too—25% off, with full benefits, and a "Buy one get one free!" policy... :p

Ya know, We Buy It Inc and their installations in Czardas have been awefully quiet, hmm... :)

I know... one wouldn't expect them to do nothing to Parthian carpet-bombing the general vicinity of their plants, and then claiming the entire area as its sovereign territory... ;)

[Tag.]

Hi,

I'm planning to fly some bombers over occupied Czardas and drop loads of leaflets (mainly because I absent mindedly spent ages making one, and it would be a shame not to use it) but I can't really be bothered to spend days and days on RPing it so if you could just give me (reasonable) bomber losses for me then I can write it all up in one post, saving time. I would assume that your defences against high-flying bombers are not awfully strong as yet, as you haven't been there all that long and you have thousands of miles to protect. The bombers will be flying high over defended areas and low over quiet areas to spook radar, will be escorted by bombers carrying large numbers of AAMs and will be jamming radar. As a point of referrence, heavy losses in WWII for a bomber force was considered to be about 20%.

Thanks.

Prae, once you get over We Buy It Inc. controlled areas (oil fields, mines, factories, you should be pretty safe, they have a high number of SAMs and aircraft and haven't been engaged at all.

My ships are going to be mainly in the north, and since I have almost two thousand, that might not be easy. (We haven't quite occupied our territory yet, although we soon will.) The only areas already occupied are those of Warmaster and Parthia. I think Doom is on the way to occupying his own area as well, although that's more inland according to the maps... but, whatever.

My force composition, if anyone's interested. However, unless stated so, the exact composition of each army, air combat command, etc. is still somewhat classified. The media will know once the shooting starts, but right now it is still secret ICly.

If you need to know the compositions of each division, navy battle group, etc. they are all in the threads linked to by my sig.

Omzian Czardaian Expeditionary Forces
Commander: General Jolens Konara

First Expeditionary Army (Northeast Czardas)
Commander: Colonel-General Honara
-->30th GA HQ and Support Assets
-->II Shock Corps, 1st Shock Army (Immediate Deployment by Air - Eastern Czardas)
53rd Guards Armoured Cavalry Regiment
5th Guards Tank Regiment
32th Guards Mechanized Airborne Division
35th Guards Mechanized Airborne Division
27th Guards Airmobile Division
28th Guards Airmobile Division
-->IX Shock Corps, 1st Shock Army (Follow-On by Air)
1st Guards Tank Regiment
63rd Guards Tank Division
202nd Guards Mechanized Infantry Division
203rd Guards Mechanized Infantry Division
508th Guards Mechanized Infantry Division
508th Guards Infantry Division
-->LXVIII Corps, 30th Group Army (Follow-On by Sea)
83rd Armoured Cavalry Regiment
103rd Independent Tank Regiment
112th Armoured Division
115th Armoured Division
617th Mechanized Infantry Division
618th Mechanized Infantry Division
TOTAL: ~520,000 Men

Second Expeditionary Army (Southeast Czardas)
Commander: Colonel-General Moranoes
-->12th GA HQ and Support Assets
-->VI Shock Corps, 2nd Shock Army (Immediate Deployment by Air - Adarion)
8th Guards Armoured Cavalry Regiment
10th Guards Independent Tank Regiment
16th Guards Tank Division
17th Guards Tank Division
23rd Guards Mechanized Infantry Division
-->XLI Corps, 12th Group Army (Follow-On by Sea)
39th Armoured Cavalry Regiment
188th Mechanized Infantry Division
189th Mechanized Infantry Division
331st Light Infantry Division
332nd Light Infantry Division
333rd Light Infantry Division
336th Light Infantry Division
Total: ~340,000 Men

INA Forces Under Omzian Command

***

Third Marine Corps Expeditionary Forces
-->101st NAF and Support Assets
-->I Corps, 101st NAF, Omzian Marine Corps (Amphibious Landing)
1st Armoured Regiment
10th Mechanized Division
11th Mechanized Division
50th Naval Infantry Division
51st Naval Infantry Division
(Corps Support Assets)
-->II Corps, 101st NAF, Omzian Marine Corps (Amphibious Landing)
2nd Armoured Regiment
12th Mechanized Division
15th Mechanized Division
52nd Naval Infantry Division
53rd Naval Infantry Division
-->LIX Corps, 30th Group Army (Follow-On Amphib. Landing)
626th Mechanized Infantry Division
627th Mechanized Infantry Division
711th Light Infantry Division
712th Light Infantry Division
715th Light Infantry Division
716th Light Infantry Division
Total: ~380,000 Men

***

Czardaian Expeditionary Air Forces

First Provisional Air Combat Command (Immediate Deployment)
702nd Attack Bomber Air Force - 96x B-110A Archstream, 48x B-101D Bombardier II, 48x EFB-101E Halberd II
703rd Attack Bomber Air Force
228th Strike Bomber Air Force - 144x B-108B Thunderhawk II, 48x B-101D Bombardier II, 48x EFB-101E Halberd II
229th Strike Bomber Air Force
(Additional tanker, AWACS, and ELINT support)

Second Provisional Air Combat Command (Follow-On)
705th Attack Bomber Air Force
706th Attack Bomber Air Force
707th Attack Bomber Air Force
230th Strike Bomber Air Force
231st Strike Bomber Air Force
(Additional tanker, AWACS, and ELINT support)

Third Provisional Air Combat Command (Immediate Deployment)
31st Composite Air Force - 72x F-63D Tengriy, 72x F-120A Darkhawk, 72x F-109D Seafury, 72x F-28A Ostwind, 72x A-102C Stormcrow II, 72x FB-117D Barsuk, 72x FB-36A Kunai, 144x EB-36A Kunai, 96x A-45A UCAV, 36x KC-380, 9x E-128A AWACS, 9x E-128G JSTARS, 9x REC-380E ELINT, 9x E-380E PsyOps/ECM
32nd Composite Air Force
510th Tactical Combat Air Force - 72x F-120A Darkhawk, 72x F-109D Seafury, 216x F-28A Ostwind, 72x A-102C Stormcrow II
512nd Tactical Combat Air Force
236th Tactical Strike Air Force - 72x F-109D Seafury, 144x FB-36A Kunai, 72x EB-36A Kunai, 72x FB-117D Barsuk, 96x A-45A UCAV
221st Interceptor Wing - 72x F-125G Bateleur (Space Operations)
(Additional tanker, AWACS, JSTARS, ELINT, and photorecon support)

Fifth Provisional Air Combat Command (Follow-On)
515th Tactical Combat Air Force
516th Tactical Combat Air Force
517th Tactical Combat Air Force
518th Tactical Combat Air Force
237th Tactical Strike Air Force
238th Tactical Strike Air Force
239th Tactical Strike Air Force
222nd Interceptor Wing
225th Interceptor Wing
(Additional tanker, AWACS, JSTARS, ELINT, and photorecon support)

***

Navy Task Force Trebuchet - 1160 ships
1x Command Group - 208 ships (ext. VC)
1x Fire Support Group - 52 ships
6x General Combat Battle Groups - 462 ships
6x Assault Carrier Battle Groups - 294 ships
2x Submarine Flotilla (Tucuxi II) - 72 ships
1x Submarine Flotilla (Mesopolodon IIF) - 36 ships
2x Submarine Squadrons (Tyrant SSGN) - 24 ships
1x Submarine Squadron (Tyrant SSASN) - 12 ships

2x Amphibious Operations Group - 154 ships
2x Command Carrier Air Groups - 552 fixed-wing
18x Battle Carrier Air Groups - 3600 fixed-wing
12x Assault Carrier Air Groups - 1728 fixed-wing
6x Intermediate Carrier Air Groups - 360 fixed wing
(Additional cargo-carrying Ro-Ros, etc.)

Ok...um...sounds good.

My ships are going to be mainly in the north, and since I have almost two thousand, that might not be easy. (We haven't quite occupied our territory yet, although we soon will.) The only areas already occupied are those of Warmaster and Parthia. I think Doom is on the way to occupying his own area as well, although that's more inland according to the maps... but, whatever.
Aye, my planes shall not go across the coast or any concentrations of foreign ships, but loop down from the North. Also, could you give me a percentage? If you can then I can drop stuff over yours and Doom's (as Doom's is apparently not garrisoned) sectors right now.

I'd say... if you manage to stay that stealthy, 10-20% losses would be reasonable. With ~400 air defence configured vessels, approximately half of which would be able to respond and fire LRSAMs in time, probably towards the lower end of that.

Uh...where exactly are my troops?...

I don't know, you decide. They're your troops after all. :P

Number and composition of my military can be viewed at www.freewebs.com/colonyofollieland. I'll be listing any units being deployed as when they are used.

Can anyone label where everyone is on the map? It would be most appreciated, I have an idea where my forces would have been before the war, but I need to know if they were pushed back or anything.

At some point, I'd like to infiltrate 1,000 - 2,000 special forces troopers into Czardas. I have minimal experience RPing commando forces, and there's no way in Hades I'll be able to get them in through sea (my navy sucks and is not big enough to bust through the CAD blockade, besides, that would spoil the covert factor :) ) and I wouldn't be able to get them in by air without blatantly g****ding... any advice?

(This infiltration has to be kept fairly low-key, I'm still rebuilding from the last war.)

At some point, I'd like to infiltrate 1,000 - 2,000 special forces troopers into Czardas. I have minimal experience RPing commando forces, and there's no way in Hades I'll be able to get them in through sea (my navy sucks and is not big enough to bust through the CAD blockade, besides, that would spoil the covert factor :) ) and I wouldn't be able to get them in by air without blatantly g****ding... any advice?

(This infiltration has to be kept fairly low-key, I'm still rebuilding from the last war.)

Best way for secret infiltration without largescale military units is submarine insertion. Of course theres no way you get more than 50-100 in by sub.

I could fly the to We Buy It Inc. airbases as "cargo to repair damages against mines and oil fields" I don't think anyone would notice, and We Buy It Inc. wouldn't care as long as you paid 'em.

TSS: Good idea. I wasn't going to risk a sub, and the only subs I have are hunter-killer and ballistic missile subs anyway.

SCS (Special Combat Service) soldiers of Kahanistan are used to roughing it, they'd have no problem with flying in freight, or even crammed into crates for hours.

Ok, although it's going to have to wait until I find out which airfields are still under my control, once we do that, you can RP my planes landing at your bases and I'll RP them landing and unloading in Czardas.

I don't know, you decide. They're your troops after all. :P
Well, if they're already landed, it's gotta be somewhere where your defenses are pretty much gone. Sorry, I really haven't been following the war all that well...

Kahanistan: Port Khufi is in friendly hands and could be landed there if you wanted.

For info OOCly but definately not ICly, my current forces are thus:

7,000 Volunteer Soldiers - Port Khufi

18,000 Volunteer and Regular Soldiers - Tyriandor aiding Czardian defenses against the Bandurian threat.

I have another 200,000 troops coming in massive convoys protected by five Carrier Fleets moving towards Czardas and Port Khufi which won't land for another day or so.

Kahanistan, I covered up my attrocities in ViZion, so you wouldn't have gotten any footage of it. Hell, I cover up the majority of my attrocites (and tend not to leave witnesses) so unless your stuff is fabricated, can you please explain to me how you got all that stuff?

SU...when exactly did your fleet of 3,000+ ships leave port?

SU...when exactly did your fleet of 3,000+ ships leave port?

2 weeks prior. Sorry I use fluid time a lot so I RP it 2 weeks later which means Parthia has two weeks notice in NS time. I don't think there's a problem, is there? Also not all my ships are there yet. Only a fraction are, the rest are still coming.

2 weeks prior. Sorry I use fluid time a lot so I RP it 2 weeks later which means Parthia has two weeks notice in NS time. I don't think there's a problem, is there?
Yeah, you kinda arrived before he actualy posted anything militarily...or me, for that matter (I definately would've moved to intercept you before you even got near Czardas)

Yeah, you kinda arrived before he actualy posted anything militarily...or me, for that matter (I definately would've moved to intercept you before you even got near Czardas)

I'm still far out, he can still pretty much intercept my forces still. 20 kms a lot still. ;)

As much as I hate saying it, doom has a point. An 20km is nothing. :p

As much as I hate saying it, doom has a point. An 20km is nothing. :p

I guess we have different point of views for 20 km. If it makes you feel better, I'm willing to say a 50 km gap. Is that alright? :p

No.
Just no. If Doom was going to do an interception, it would be open ocean.

Czardas, Forgive me about abandoning you earlier. With the overwhelming Odds stacked against you, trying to defend you will prove futile and then the Parthians and their allies will turn their dogs of war on me once you were dealt with. Now I am ready to fight alongside with you, not by some sorry excuse of an orbital weapon attack.

Czardas, Forgive me about abandoning you earlier. With the overwhelming Odds stacked against you, trying to defend you will prove futile and then the Parthians and their allies will turn their dogs of war on me once you were dealt with. Now I am ready to fight alongside with you, not by some sorry excuse of an orbital weapon attack.

I'm not sure about this. Could we close this RP to just WP vs CAD please?

I'm not sure about this. Could we close this RP to just WP vs CAD please?
Yeah, I agree.

Well, Gyrobot was at the beginning, and Velkya isn't WP, either am I. I don't see why letting him in would be a problem.

Yeah, I agree.
I concur. We could probably let one non-WP or CAD nation on each side - TSS for WP, and MP for CAD?

TAG

Holy jebus you guys wrote a lot in 24 hours damnit! lol.

I am going to post somethign about my main fleets moving, but as posted in the peace conference thread, my one fleet is already in the area.

I am off for the holiday (irish) until sunday, so I wil post exact numbers then. (about 600 ships)

I concur. We could probably let one non-WP or CAD nation on each side - TSS for WP, and MP for CAD?
Hate to nitpick, but MassPwnage IS a CAD nation.

Kahanistan, I covered up my atrocities in ViZion, so you wouldn't have gotten any footage of it. Hell, I cover up the majority of my atrocites (and tend not to leave witnesses) so unless your stuff is fabricated, can you please explain to me how you got all that stuff?

Just say that 90% of it is fabricated, and 10% is based on rumors, survivor reports, and intelligence findings. Also, you do have a reputation for atrocities, nobody'll doubt that. Just a motivational film for the troops. :) I don't think, for example, that CAD soldiers drink blood.

I hope nobody minds my joining this. I was at the peace conference and deployed a fleet off Czardas before this thread began, but if there are any objections, just let me know.

I concur. We could probably let one non-WP or CAD nation on each side - TSS for WP, and MP for CAD?
Actually, MP is a CAD member. Yurka would be the non-CAD member (when he decides to post); I seem to recall that he had a fleet somewhere in there as well.

Also, SU, I'd really recommend editing your post. I could intercept you from some 300-400 kms away, and thus Parthia and Doom could easily achieve the same. You'd be hit with Parthian fire in all likelihood a few hundred klicks from their fleet, and that's just main guns—long range anti-shipping missiles and ICCMs could go even farther.

I hope nobody minds my joining this. I was at the peace conference and deployed a fleet off Czardas before this thread began, but if there are any objections, just let me know.
Mauvasia, I think you're fine. But not too many more though, this RP is getting crowded....

RINN naval assets (Secret IC, of course)


Czardas Expeditionary Navy (CEN)
CEN Command Fleet
Rapid Reaction Fleet Group
--RRFG Command Fleet
--7th, 8th, 11th, 12th Fleets (each with same organisation)
----1 x Command Squadron of same size (each)
----2 x Operational Squadrons of same size (each)
Littoral Defence Fleet Group
--LDFG Command Fleet
--13th and 14th Fleets
----1 x Command Squadron of same size (each)
----2 x Operational Squadrons of same size (each)

Czardas Expeditionary Navy Command Fleet
Commander: FAdm Sir Edmund Wallace
Personnel: 431,330
Ships: 354
36 x Nowotny-class SSN
14 x Port-class SSGN
4 x Haenulf-class SSK
2 x Hornby-class CVLN
2 x Rapier-class CVQ
1 x Europa-class BBCN
2 x King Henry V-class BBGN
6 x King Robert VI-class BBGN
2 x Princess-class CBGN
4 x Castle-class CAGN
11 x Duchy-class CAG
20 x Morrigan-class CGN
66 x Wallace-class DDG
82 x Bullfinch-class FFH
12 x Crocodile-class LCS
2 x Lord-class LHD
2 x Ungforth-class LPD
2 x Valley-class LSD
2 x Cernunnos-class BCN
8 x Siren-class AGI
3 x Sea Lion-class PGC
9 x Lem-class AFS
2 x Hobbes-class AH
2 x Gabin-class AKR
26 x Smith-class AOE
7 x Guinness-class AOEN
4 x Marsden-class AP
9 x Aylesburgh-class AS
Drones: 2,005
127 x Auk DHM.1
34 x Parrot DES.1
57 x Puffin DHEW.1
141 x Rook DRA.2
92 x Tern DA.2
20 x Thrush DFA.1
1,022 x Cuttlefish DSR.1
246 x Seahorse DSA.1
266 x Squid DSM.1
Aircraft: 1,281
Fleet Air Arm
80 x Sea Fury FA.1
12 x Sea Fury T.2
84 x Spectre FA.1
84 x Spectre FA.2
40 x Banshee ADS.1
20 x Wraith EF.1
24 x Swordfish S.1
12 x Heimdall AEW.1
8 x Gannet C.1
159 x Cormorant HC.3
22 x Cormorant HEW.2
388 x Cormorant HM.1
Marine Air Service
84 x Sea Fury FA.1
18 x Sea Fury T.2
144 x Cormorant HC.3
18 x Cormorant HEW.2
84 x Sparrow HA.1
Isselmere-Nieland Rapid Reaction Force
Commander: Admiral Sir Graeme Docherty
Personnel: 2,861,282
Ships: 5,146
Drones: 11,990
Aircraft: 5,796
RRF Command Fleet
Personnel: 173,878
Ships: 166
17 x Nowotny-class SSN
6 x Port-class SSGN
4 x Haenulf-class SSK
2 x Hornby-class CVLN
2 x Rapier-class CVQ
1 x Jimnam-class BBAN
1 x King Henry V-class BBGN
1 x King Robert VI-class BBGN
2 x Princess-class CBGN
3 x Castle-class CAGN
3 x Duchy-class CAG
8 x Morrigan-class CGN
30 x Wallace-class DDG
38 x Bullfinch-class FFH
8 x Flower-class K
8 x Crocodile-class LCS
1 x Lord-class LHD
1 x Ungforth-class LPD
2 x Valley-class LSD
1 x Cernunnos-class BCN
2 x Siren-class AGI
2 x Sea Lion-class PGC
2 x Fettes-class PC
2 x Lem-class AFS
1 x Hobbes-class AH
1 x Gabin-class AKR
8 x Smith-class AOE
2 x Guinness-class AOEN
2 x Marsden-class AP
5 x Aylesburgh-class AS
Drones: 934
65 x Auk DHM.1
16 x Parrot DES.1
30 x Puffin DHEW.1
69 x Rook DRA.2
60 x Tern DA.2
10 x Thrush DFA.1
452 x Cuttlefish DSR.1
104 x Seahorse DSA.1
128 x Squid DSM.1
Aircraft: 425
Fleet Air Arm
68 x Sea Fury FA.1
8 x Sea Fury T.2
55 x Cormorant HC.3
14 x Cormorant HEW.2
171 x Cormorant HM.1
4 x Sparrow HA.1
Marine Air Service
24 x Sea Fury FA.1
6 x Sea Fury T.2
48 x Cormorant HC.3
3 x Cormorant HEW.2
24 x Sparrow HA.1
7th, 8th, 11th, and 12th Fleets each
Personnel: 671,851
Ships: 1,199
1 x Command Squadron each
Ships: 163 each
19 x Nowotny-class SSN
2 x Haenulf-class SSK
1 x Rapier-class CVQ
1 x King Henry V-class BBGN
1 x King Robert VI-class BBGN
2 x Treaty-class BBGN
5 x Castle-class CAGN
6 x Duchy-class CAG
12 x Morrigan-class CGN
19 x Wallace-class DDG
25 x Bullfinch-class FFH
4 x Flower-class K
4 x Walrus-class LCH
10 x Crocodile-class LCS
1 x Marquess-class LHCN
1 x Lord-class LHD
3 x Ungforth-class LPD
6 x Valley-class LSD
4 x Knight-class LST (carries 14 L36 Lion MBT, with comparable air defence capability to Lord-class)
5 x Siren-class AGI
3 x Sea Lion-class PGC
3 x Lem-class AFS
1 x Hobbes-class AH
9 x Smith-class AOE
2 x Guinness-class AOEN
6 x Marsden-class AP
4 x Aylesburgh-class AS
Drones:
54 x Auk DHM.1
12 x Parrot DES.1
32 x Puffin DHEW.1
74 x Rook DRA.2
40 x Tern DA.2
4 x Thrush DFA.1
194 x Cuttlefish DSR.1
8 x Seahorse DSA.1
104 x Squid DSM.1
Aircraft: 616
Fleet Air Arm
16 x Sea Fury FA.1
4 x Sea Fury T.2
54 x Cormorant HC.3
8 x Cormorant HEW.2
130 x Cormorant HM.1
Marine Air Service
120 x Sea Fury FA.1
12 x Sea Fury T.2
144 x Cormorant HC.3
8 x Cormorant HEW.2
120 x Sparrow HA.1
2 x Operational Squadrons each
Ships: 204 each
27 x Nowotny-class SSN
8 x Port-class SSGN
8 x Haenulf-class SSK
2 x Peel-class CVBN
1 x Hornby-class CVLN
1 x Rapier-class CVQ
3 x King Henry V-class BBGN
2 x King Robert VI-class BBGN
2 x Princess-class CBGN
1 x Castle-class CAGN
5 x Duchy-class CAG
9 x Morrigan-class CGN
37 x Wallace-class DDG
43 x Bullfinch-class FFH
4 x Flower-class K
6 x Crocodile-class LCS
1 x Lord-class LHD
1 x Ungforth-class LPD
2 x Valley-class LSD
1 x Admiral-class CCN
4 x Siren-class AGI
2 x Sea Lion-class PGC
4 x Lem-class AFS
1 x Hobbes-class AH
1 x Gabin-class AKR
15 x Smith-class AOE
3 x Guinness-class AOEN
2 x Marsden-class AP
8 x Aylesburgh-class AS
Drones: 522
67 x Auk DHM.1
16 x Parrot DES.1
28 x Puffin DHEW.1
63 x Rook DRA.2
39 x Tern DA.2
12 x Thrush DFA.1
578 x Cuttlefish DSR.1
138 x Seahorse DSA.1
180 x Squid DSM.1
Aircraft: 684
Fleet Air Arm
44 x Sea Fury FA.1
7 x Sea Fury T.2
72 x Spectre FA.1
72 x Spectre FA.2
32 x Banshee ADS.1
16 x Wraith EF.1
24 x Swordfish S.1
8 x Heimdall AEW.1
4 x Gannet C.1
81 x Cormorant HC.3
13 x Cormorant HEW.2
206 x Cormorant HM.1
Marine Air Service
24 x Sea Fury FA.1
6 x Sea Fury T.2
48 x Cormorant HC.3
3 x Cormorant HEW.2
24 x Sparrow HA.1

Littoral Defence Force
Commander: Admiral Sir Theodosius Wu
Personnel: 1,489,824
Ships: 2,943
Drones: 8,337
Aircraft: 3,191
LDF Command Fleet
Personnel: 147,998
Ships: 277
9 x Nowotny-class SSN
12 x Port-class SSGN
2 x Haenulf-class SSK
1 x Hornby-class CVLN
1 x Rapier-class CVQ
1 x King Henry V-class BBGN
1 x King Robert VI-class BBGN
1 x Princess-class CBGN
3 x Castle-class CAGN
2 x Duchy-class CAG
7 x Morrigan-class CGN
21 x Wallace-class DDG
27 x Bullfinch-class FFH
4 x Flower-class K
6 x Crocodile-class LCS
1 x Lord-class LHD
1 x Ungforth-class LPD
2 x Valley-class LSD
1 x Cernunnos-class BCN
2 x Siren-class AGI
2 x Sea Lion-class PGC
2 x Fettes-class PG
2 x Lem-class AFS
1 x Hobbes-class AH
1 x Gabin-class AKR
6 x Smith-class AOE
2 x Guinness-class AOEN
2 x Marsden-class AP
4 x Aylesburgh-class AS
Drones: 1,059
46 x Auk DHM.1
14 x Parrot DES.1
23 x Puffin DHEW.1
50 x Rook DRA.2
36 x Tern DA.2
10 x Thrush DFA.1
568 x Cuttlefish DSR.1
200 x Seahorse DSA.1
112 x Squid DSM.1
Aircraft: 235
Fleet Air Arm
44 x Sea Fury FA.1
6 x Sea Fury T.2
49 x Cormorant HC.1
11 x Cormorant HEW.1
125 x Cormorant HM.1
4 x Sparrow HA.1
Marine Air Service
24 x Sea Fury FA.1
6 x Sea Fury T.2
48 x Cormorant HC.3
3 x Cormorant HEW.2
24 x Sparrow HA.1
13th and 14th Fleets
Personnel: 670,913
Ships: 1,333
1 x Command Squadron
Ships: 125
7 x Nowotny-class SSN
12 x Port-class SSGN
4 x Haenulf-class SSK
1 x Hornby-class CVLN
2 x Rapier-class CVQ
1 x King Henry V-class BBGN
1 x King Robert VI-class BBGN
1 x Princess-class CBGN
1 x Castle-class CAGN
3 x Duchy-class CAG
5 x Morrigan-class CGN
20 x Wallace-class DDG
24 x Bullfinch-class FFH
8 x Flower-class K
8 x Crocodile-class LCS
1 x Lord-class LHD
1 x Ungforth-class LPD
2 x Valley-class LSD
1 x Cernunnos-class BCN
2 x Siren-class AGI
2 x Sea Lion-class PGC
2 x Lem-class AFS
1 x Hobbes-class AH
1 x Gabin-class AKR
7 x Smith-class AOE
1 x Guinness-class AOEN
2 x Marsden-class AP
4 x Aylesburgh-class AS
Drones: 1,055
53 x Auk DHM.1
10 x Parrot DES.1
27 x Puffin DHEW.1
53 x Rook DRA.2
56 x Tern DA.2
4 x Thrush DFA.1
552 x Cuttlefish DSR.1
196 x Seahorse DSA.1
104 x Squid DSM.1
Aircraft: 192
Fleet Air Arm
32 x Sea Fury FA.1
4 x Sea Fury T.2
39 x Cormorant HC.3
7 x Cormorant HEW.2
110 x Cormorant HM.1
Marine Air Service
24 x Sea Fury FA.1
6 x Sea Fury T.2
48 x Cormorant HC.3
3 x Cormorant HEW.2
24 x Sparrow HA.1
2 x Operational Squadrons each
Ships: 254
30 x Nowotny-class SSN
8 x Port-class SSGN
10 x Haenulf-class SSK
1 x Hornby-class CVLN
2 x Rapier-class CVQ
6 x King Robert VI-class BBGN
2 x Princess-class CBGN
2 x Castle-class CAGN
7 x Duchy-class CAG
11 x Morrigan-class CGN
44 x Wallace-class DDG
50 x Bullfinch-class FFH
8 x Flower-class K
12 x Crocodile-class LCS
2 x Lord-class LHD
2 x Ungforth-class LPD
4 x Valley-class LSD
1 x Admiral-class CCN
5 x Siren-class AGI
3 x Sea Lion-class PGC
5 x Lem-class AFS
2 x Hobbes-class AH
2 x Gabin-class AKR
18 x Smith-class AOE
3 x Guinness-class AOEN
4 x Marsden-class AP
8 x Aylesburgh-class AS
Drones: 1,292 each
92 x Auk DHM.1
18 x Parrot DES.1
42 x Puffin DHEW.1
89 x Rook DRA.2
73 x Tern DA.2
634 x Cuttlefish DSR.1
140 x Seahorse DSA.1
204 x Squid DSM.1
Aircraft: 643 each
Fleet Air Arm
48 x Sea Fury FA.1
8 x Sea Fury T.2
72 x Spectre FA.1
72 x Spectre FA.2
32 x Banshee ADS.1
16 x Wraith EF.1
24 x Swordfish S.1
8 x Heimdall AEW.1
4 x Gannet C.1
99 x Cormorant HC.3
15 x Cormorant HEW.2
245 x Cormorant HM.1
Marine Air Service
48 x Sea Fury FA.1
12 x Sea Fury T.2
96 x Cormorant HC.3
6 x Cormorant HEW.2
48 x Sparrow HA.1

RINM Czardas Expeditionary Force
Commander: Gen. Wilfred Poulsbeck
Personnel: 564,217
RINM Army
Corps: 4
Marine Divisions: 16
Brigades: 56
8 x Armoured Brigades
16 x Artillery Brigades
48 x Marine Brigades

INA Czardas Expeditionary Army Group
Commander: Field Marshal Peter Naseby
Personnel: 1,544,381
Armies: 5
1 x Armoured Army
2 x Infantry Army
2 x Mechanised Infantry Army
Corps: 11
1 x Airborne Corps
2 x Armoured Corps
4 x Infantry Corps
4 x Mechanised Infantry Corps
Divisions: 45
14 x Armoured Divisions
3 x Airborne Infantry Divisions
8 x Light Infantry Divisions
17 x Mechanised Infantry Divisions
6 x Motorised Infantry Divisions
Brigades: 138
48 x Armoured Brigades
6 x Heliborne Infantry Brigades
24 x Light Infantry Brigades
48 x Mechanised Infantry Brigades
18 x Motorised Infantry Brigades
3 x Parachute Infantry Brigades
INA Equipment
Helicopters
936 x Condor HC.1 heavy-lift helicopters
1028 x Cormorant HC.3 medium-lift helicopters
54 x Cormorant HQ.5 drone-control helicopters
1740 x Sparrow HA.1 attack helicopters
1908 x Swallow HU.2 observation/light attack helicopters
180 x Swift HE.2 ECM helicopters
66 x Swift HE.3 battlefield surveillance helicopters
192 x Swift HR.4 NBCR helicopters
2334 x Swift HU.1 tactical transport helicopters
UCAVs
54 x Auk DHM.1 drone helicopters (URAV)
1920 x Parrot DES.1 communications/command relay UAV
1260 x Puffin DHEW.1 air/ground radar surveillance URAV
6242 x Rook DRA.2 UCAV
UGVs
5808 x Ferret DLM.1 light remote-controlled anti-tank vehciles
135 x Jackal DLT.1 light remote-controlled ‘tanks’
2923 x Marmot DLMC.1 mine clearance UGV
L15 Badger light tracked vehicles
9753 x L15PC infantry fighting vehicles
474 x L15AD air defence vehicles
3708 x L15AM ambulances
6070 x L15AR armoured recovery vehicles
2133 x L15AT anti-armour vehicles
15303 x L15CE combat engineers vehicles
7120 x L15CP tactical command vehicles
5451 x L15CV command vehicles
5684 x L15DF direct fire vehicles
3127 x L15FO forward observation vehicles
12532 x L15GP general purpose vehicles
1512 x L15LT light tanks
5436 x L15MC self-propelled mortars
1949 x L15MN(D) remote mine clearance vehicles
L16 wheeled light armoured vehicles
814 x L16PC infantry fighting vehicles
210 x L16AD air defence vehicles
4508 x L16AM ambulances
2249 x L16AR armoured recovery vehicles
696 x L16AT anti-armour vehicles
2922 x L16CE combat engineers vehicles
1273 x L16CP tactical command vehicles
20693 x L16CR combat reconnaissance vehicles
4147 x L16CV command vehicles
2582 x L16DC drone control vehicles
756 x L16DF direct fire vehicles
1218 x L16ER NBCR vehicles
376 x L16FO forward observation vehicles
11484 x L16GP general purpose vehicles
623 x L16MC self-propelled mortar vehicles
756 x L16MN(D) remote mine clearance vehicles
919 x L16RV counterbattery radar vehicles
Tanks
5796 x L36MT Lion main battle tanks
1288 x L36CT Lion command tanks
288 x L36AD air defence vehicles
1607 x L36BV bridging vehicles
4249 x L36AE armoured engineering vehicles
3671 x L36AR armoured recovery vehicles
Towed artillery
1080 x L11FH 105mm towed howitzers
648 x L14FH 155mm towed howitzers
342 x L22FH 203mm towed howitzers
Self-propelled howitzers
1728 x L25 Boar 155mm SPH
342 x L26 Menhir 203mm SPH
252 x L27 Obelisk 155mm SPH
90 x L28 Stele 203mm SPH
2070 x L29 Gudrun FAASV
324 x L32 Hart wheeled 155mm howitzers
324 x L33 Elk wheeled MLRS vehicles
972 x L59L tracked MLRS vehicles
Missile vehicles
600 x L57L Erne MR-SAM launchers
198 x L58L Hurricane SSM launchers
102 x L65L Kite SR-SAM launchers
198 x L67L Lanneret VLR-SAM launchers
900 x L74L Kestrel intermediate range SAM launchers
General purpose vehicles
54001 x L18 ‘jeeps’
144 x L18AD air defence vehicles
4149 x L18AM ambulances
1824 x L18AT anti-armour vehicles
18 x L18CS communications vehicles
1383 x L18DC drone control vehicles
Medium logistics vehicles
68060 x L10 transports
5103 x L10CS communications lorries
2676 x L10KT petroleum transports
Heavy lift transports
28758 x L13 transports
668 x L13DT decontamination vehicles
5445 x L13MK mobile kitchens
2089 x L13ML mobile laundries
13419 x L13KT petroleum tankers
9710 x L13ST ordnance transports
658 x L13WT water transports
10122 x L13WR wrecker vehicles
Lightweight jeeps
522 x L35 vehicles
Trailers
33387 x general
4970 x UAV
13769 x water
3989 x welding
Engineering vehicles
1926 x 5.1-tonne dump trucks
2142 x bulldozers/diggers
1299 x L31 Mammoth mine/obstacle clearance vehicles
Radar vehicles
33 x L52R surface surveillance
285 x L57R long-range air search and tracking
44 x L67R theatre air defence radars
353 x L74R medium range anti-air
Other
1836 x mobile command centres
1309 x L20 ROWPU vehicles
2700 x forklifts
5702 x motorcycles


INA and RINM assets to follow.

Also, SU, I'd really recommend editing your post. I could intercept you from some 300-400 kms away, and thus Parthia and Doom could easily achieve the same. You'd be hit with Parthian fire in all likelihood a few hundred klicks from their fleet, and that's just main guns—long range anti-shipping missiles and ICCMs could go even farther.
Speaking of edits, CIWS isn't nearly as reliable in combat situations as it seems to be that you're making it out to be. Looks like an unreasonable number of missiles fired at your fleets aren't finding their targets.

Well, Gyrobot was at the beginning, and Velkya isn't WP, either am I. I don't see why letting him in would be a problem.
One word: NYET.

Want a reason? This RP's already dangerously close to being unmanageable with the number of people already involved in it.

By the way, Generic Empire and Freudotopia both were planning to get into the conference, and Freudotopia was in the first RP (he's got a sizable fleet off Port Khufi)...but they're away for a while. They have been for a couple days. So give them some time.

Silver Sky Naval Assests:

Combined Naval Armada:
12x Neptune-Class Trimaran Super Dreadnaught Flight II (SDN)
16x Gavin Newsom-class Trimaran Hypercarriers (CVHN)
64x Ravager-Class Trimaran Heavy Dreadnaught (DAN)
32x Valiant-class Trimaran Supercarriers (CVSN)
64x Agamemnon-class Arsenal Ships (AN)
192x 'Spiritus Dei'-Class Trimaran Heavy Cruiser (CAN)
192x 'Shalrirorchia'-Class Trimaran Guided Missile Cruiser (CGN)
384x Evermore-class GP Destroyers (DDN)
384x Johnston-class AA Destroyer (DDA)
384x Wingate-class Trimaran AA Frigates (FGA)
384x McDonough-class ASW Frigates (FAS)
320x Navarre-Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (Usually operates independantly)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
2428x Total Combat Ships
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
80x Pasteur-class hospital ships (HS)
120x Curie-Class Light Medical Ships (MSL)
400x Endeavour-class Large Combat Transport Ship (CTSA)
160x Gabin-class roll-on/roll-off cargo vessels (RO/RO CV)
160x Quay-class amphibious assault and replenishment vessels (LHR)
160x Smith-class fuel and munitions transport vessels (FATV)
60x Aylesburgh-class submarine tender (ST)
160x Flansburgh-class fleet replenishment vessel (FRV)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1300x Total Supply Ships
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Air Wing for a Naval Armada, does not include helicopters and UAVs carried by BBs and lower:
12x Neptune-Class Trimaran Super Dreadnaught Flight IIA (SDN)-Fighters: 48x F-620, 24x F-63K; Helicopters: 12x AH-27As, 12x SH-4 Rabbit

16x Gavin Newsom-class Trimaran Hypercarriers (CVHN)-Fighters: 72x F-620, 72x F-73A, 48x F-63K, 48x F/A-3, 48x FB-177A; Helicopters: 12x AH-27As, 12x SH-4 Rabbit; 4x AWACs; 4x Tankers

32x Valiant-class Trimaran Supercarriers (CVSN)-Fighters: 48x F-620, 24x F-73A, 24x F/A-3, 24x FB-177A; Helicopters: 6x AH-27As, 6x SH-4 Rabbit, 2x AWACs, 2x Tankers

192x 'Spiritus Dei'-Class Trimaran Heavy Cruiser(CAN)-Fighters 12x F/A-3V; Helicopters: 4x AH-27As, 4x SH-4 Rabbit

64x Ravager-Class Trimaran Heavy Dreadnaught (DAN)-Fighters: 12x F-73A; Helicopters: 12x AH-27As, 8x SH-4 Rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Fighters: 3264x F-620s, 2688x F-73A, 1056x F-63K, 3840x F/A-3s, 1536x FB-177As
Total Helicopters: 2064x AH-27As, 1808x SH-4 Rabbits
Total Other: 112x AWACs, 112x Tankers
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Total Aerial Assests: 16,480x Aerial Assets
Total Ships: 3728
------------------------------------
Will get army and airforce stuff up later.

Speaking of edits, CIWS isn't nearly as reliable in combat situations as it seems to be that you're making it out to be. Looks like an unreasonable number of missiles fired at your fleets aren't finding their targets.
Ok, I'll edit that. I was a bit pressed for time when writing that post, so I have no qualms with making it more acceptable.

I'll also have to comment that thirty-six aircraft destroyed on your side, Banduria, is a bit small, though I can understand being aggrieved about having your losses posted for you.

What's happening so far:

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/3729/1232141251249sp.jpg

What's happening so far:

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/3729/1232141251249sp.jpg

Brilliant idea Czardas, thanks. Are the white shaded areas the bits we control, or CAD?

EDIT: I go to University, yet I can't read....sorry.

[ooc: Erm, TSS... I'd appreciate it if you didn't RP my defences, or losses for that matter. Everything in my last post was directed at Skinny and Czardas. I'll respond to what I feel is appropriate.]
I didn't RP your losses, just one or two planes, which is bound to happen. And yes, I know, I was writing up that post since before you posted at 8:25 AM.

And even this: "This scene was copied over the whole of the skies of Tyriandor as Bandurian and We Buy It fighters danced with death." Is not posting your losses for you. If I did point out where and I'll fix it.

And your losses are pitifully small, both plane and ship wise. And how are you planes throwing all these missiles around, they need to reload at sometime, you'd think after the first or second volley they'd be out of missiles. And lasers on fighter sized planes shooting down missiles?? haha, that's funny, don't forget the EMPs which would bring down your own fighters too.

By the way, Generic Empire and Freudotopia both were planning to get into the conference, and Freudotopia was in the first RP (he's got a sizable fleet off Port Khufi)...but they're away for a while. They have been for a couple days. So give them some time.

If they must, but that has to be it - otherwise itu'll be an unmanageable mess of events.

I didn't RP your losses, just one or two planes, which is bound to happen. And yes, I know, I was writing up that post since before you posted at 8:25 AM.
Ok, so not losses then. Defences, whatever. You claim such things as

Bandurian missiles approached in return, but the planes were able to maneuver out of the way easily (or something like that) when you didn't know how many missiles I fired, or how maneuverable they were.

And your losses are pitifully small, both plane and ship wise. And how are you planes throwing all these missiles around, they need to reload at sometime, you'd think after the first or second volley they'd be out of missiles. And lasers on fighter sized planes shooting down missiles?? haha, that's funny, don't forget the EMPs which would bring down your own fighters too.
I can edit my losses, but as regards ships, remember that I have almost 1,900 vessels (I'll drudge up the stats from the Death to Democracy OOC thread), most of which are escorts capable of repelling aerial attacks. As for the fighters, the IF-24 is a heavy fighter capable of mounting a small laser, and I can edit it to EMP missiles or narrow-band pulses, although really I think I only used EMP to repel your planes attacking the ships (and the planes there were well out of range to be affected).

Ok, so not losses then. Defences, whatever. You claim such things as

when you didn't know how many missiles I fired, or how maneuverable they were.Edited for more losses(180), is that more acceptable? I'm also editing other parts of the post.

I can edit my losses, but as regards ships, remember that I have almost 1,900 vessels (I'll drudge up the stats from the Death to Democracy OOC thread), most of which are escorts capable of repelling aerial attacks.

I know how many ship you have and I have no problem with their single volley missile throws, but know that it's almost impossible to re-load VLS cells when underway (the US can only do it in port), so once you use all your missiles you're pretty much spent for a long while.

My main concern is again, with the planes, how are they throwing such vast quantities of missiles without needing to refuel or re-arm, and you have some 2000 planes just magically show up on demand. (it would take them a bit to get from carrier to city)
As for the fighters, the IF-24 is a heavy fighter capable of mounting a small laser, and I can edit it to EMP missiles or narrow-band pulses, although really I think I only used EMP to repel your planes attacking the ships (and the planes there were well out of range to be affected). Even a PMT laser would need the generator and equipment the size of a tank, I don't see a heavy fighter carrying a laser that can shoot down missile, which would probably weigh in at half as much as the plane it's self.

EMP would be fine, but it wouldn't do much good as my missiles are all fly by light, very little actually metal curcitry, same with the planes and both of their sensors, not to mention that EMP could be kept out by shielding the planes and missiles against them, which mine are. However, the narrow-band pulses would do ok, definately not as good as the lasers, but better then EMP

Edited for more losses(180), is that more acceptable? I'm also editing other parts of the post.
That's fine then.

I know how many ship you have and I have no problem with their single volley missile throws, but know that it's almost impossible to re-load VLS cells when underway (the US can only do it in port), so once you use all your missiles you're pretty much spent for a long while.
True, unless you have a more unconventional VLS system, like Mac's rotating VLS tubes... which I don't. However, all VLS systems in Imperial ships are equipped with dual length design, so once all of them have been fired a second missile can be fired from each as well. This gives large ships such as an Azaron-class SD a possible armament of 80,000 strategic-length missiles, although most of them would have to be pretty small (about 5-6 m in length, maximum).


My main concern is again, with the planes, how are they throwing such vast quantities of missiles without needing to refuel or re-arm, and you have some 2000 planes just magically show up on demand. (it would take them a bit to get from carrier to city)
Heheh, actually that was done mostly for the story's sake... I'll assume that the planes started to launch about the same time as the bombardment, allowing most of them to be in the air by the time the air battle began. I can edit it to read that.

Even a PMT laser would need the generator and equipment the size of a tank, I don't see a heavy fighter carrying a laser that can shoot down missile, which would probably weigh in at half as much as the plane it's self.
Well, on reflection, the only laser a plane could carry would have a range of about half its cannon, which is anyway pretty much useless, so I'll just edit them off. That's the beauty of amorphous designs. :p


EMP would be fine, but it wouldn't do much good as my missiles are all fly by light, very little actually metal curcitry, same with the planes and both of their sensors, not to mention that EMP could be kept out by shielding the planes and missiles against them, which mine are. However, the narrow-band pulses would do ok, definately not as good as the lasers, but better then EMP
Ok, I'll switch it to narrow band pulses then, and in the future start designing anti-lidar missiles coated with silicon or fiberglass on top of a layer of RAM, which thus makes them virtually undetectable until they reach a certain range...

Alright I'll modify it so that I'm 400 km away from the coast. But my missile and bomber attacks are done anyways since they are still within range. I'll just change that part to signal the beginning of the land invasion.

I think everyone is fine with that? Sorry about all these problems. Got a little ahead of myself there. :p

If they must, but that has to be it - otherwise itu'll be an unmanageable mess of events.
I do agree, because with this so many participants with different OOC readiness to post/RP, and some information still unclear, to be frank there are some problems...

Also, everyone, see my first post for a list of all participants in the conflict. It IS inaccurate, i don't doubt that, so I'd appreciate corrections.

If they must, but that has to be it - otherwise itu'll be an unmanageable mess of events.

Yeah, I agree. It's pushing it as it is. GE and Freud, in all fairness, did try to attend the conference before they left, though, so I'm counting that as prior participation, which would give them priority over some random nation that wanted in.

Warmaster, a question if you may: are you in control of the areas east and south of Tyriandor?

OK, this stuff is starting to get confusing...anyone wanna try to divide up the war a bit so we know who's fighting who here?

OK, this stuff is starting to get confusing...anyone wanna try to divide up the war a bit so we know who's fighting who here?

There's a map on page four, but I'll try and explain:

Skinny87, Omzzz22, TSS, Czardas vs Banduria - Tyriandor

Space Union vs Parthians - Princival

CAD Fleets vs WP Fleets - Assembling to the South...somewhere

Skinny87 vs Warmaster - Palma (Soon to begin)

Czardas vs Warmaster - Czarna

Silver Sky: Want to respond to my commander's arrangement to use We Buy It, Inc. to sneak special forces into Czardas? I wired the cash...

Warmaster, a question if you may: are you in control of the areas east and south of Tyriandor?

Nope. I'm more south than that. The farthest north I've gotten is Auru...which no longer exists. *evil grin*

REINFORCEMENTS:
And now, having sent a great many reinforcements...I need to do the whole numbers thing all over. Dammit...but other nations are pouring forces into this war, and I’d hate to be left behind.
Numbers for reinforcements:

Ships:
12 Vengeance-class Super-dreadnaughts
31 Imperator-class battleships
Supercarriers Carnifex, Uriel, and Lamentation (245 aircraft each; 180 Balefires, 36 Harriers, 24 attack helicopters, 5 stealth helicopters)
22 Prophet-class aircraft carriers (160 aircraft each; 120 Balefires, 24 Harriers, 16 attack helicopters)
160 Silencer-class missile submarines
120 Stalker-class attack submarines
220 Attila-class cruisers
320 Assassin-class missile cruisers
160 Darius-class destroyers
240 Piranha-class frigates
400 Atlantis-class troop carriers
60 Caduceus-class hospital ships
240 Arsenal-class cargo ships
(Again, I feel I need to have these included, cause this thread will pay more attention to detail.)

Total: 1,008 surface ships, 400 troopships, 300 support ships, 280 submarines

Aircraft: (carrier-based)
3,180 Balefires
636 Harriers
15 stealth helicopters
352 attack helicopters
(the following are not based on the carriers)
120 C-5 Galaxy cargo planes
600 A-10 Thunderbolts

Ground Forces:
1,200,000 Legionaries
1,500 M146 Despoilers
500 M1A2 Abrams
1,503 T-120 Ravagers
2,400 LAVs
600 mobile SAM batteries
75 heavy guns
50 self-propelled heavy guns
150 medium guns
200 light guns
15 Colossus howitzers

TOTAL:

Ships:
30 Vengeance-class Super-dreadnaughts
40 Imperator-class battleships
6 supercarriers
50 Prophet-class aircraft carriers
349 Silencer-class missile submarines
357 Stalker-class attack submarines
359 Attila-class cruisers
487 Assassin-class missile cruisers
434 Darius-class destroyers
602 Piranha-class frigates
400 Atlantis-class troop carriers
60 Caduceus-class hospital ships
240 Arsenal-class cargo ships

Total: 2,005 surface ships, 400 troopships, 300 support ships, 706 submarines

Aircraft:
7,253 A-35 Balefires
1,129 A-10 Thunderbolts
1,488 Imperial Harriers
252 MiG-40s
16 B-1 Lancer stealth bombers
332 AH-64D Longbow Apaches
368 AH-166 Twilight gunships
120 C-5 Galaxy transport planes
550 Lawgiver VTOL transport helicopters

Total: 10,122 fighters, 700 attack helicopters, 16 stealth bombers, 120 transport planes, 550 transport helicopters.

Ground Troops:
7.8 million Legionaries
42,000 Immortals
9,000 War-Priests
4,000 M146 Despoilers
2,000 M1A2 Abrams
500 T-62s
6,000 T-120 Ravagers
9,600 LAVs
600 light guns
400 medium guns
225 heavy guns
300 self-propelled heavy guns
900 mobile SAM batteries
40 Colossus howitzers

Total: 7,851,000 infantry, 12,500 tanks, 9,600 LAVs, 2,465 artillery guns

Warmaster:

I have an extra 250,000 troops in the area now. The dispositions are as such:

Port Khufu: 100,000 + 25,000 (Basically there to protect the port until I know where to send them)

Czarna: 90,000 + 30,000 already there (Mistook Orandor for Doranda, so they're there instead.)

Palma: 60,000 + Original Defenders

When you said Palma, do you mean they've landed on the mainland, having crossed that little strait-area between Port Khufi? I just need to know, cause I just launched a bunch of missiles at them, assuming they were in their troopships. It doesn't matter that much; if they're on land, then the missiles are aimed at land.

When you said Palma, do you mean they've landed on the mainland, having crossed that little strait-area between Port Khufi? I just need to know, cause I just launched a bunch of missiles at them, assuming they were in their troopships. It doesn't matter that much; if they're on land, then the missiles are aimed at land.

No, I started shelling it in preperation, but the assault has yet to begin. I RPed the missiles hitting Port Khufa. I hope that's right - I'm so tired...

Sorry guys I was out for a while today, and I don't think I'll be able to get anything up until tomorrow either, my girlfriend wants to talk tonight so I won't be on NS till tomorrow. Sorry.

OK, this stuff is starting to get confusing...anyone wanna try to divide up the war a bit so we know who's fighting who here?
Just so that no one missed what Doom said, I do concur - right now the war is beginning to take foot in different parts of Czardas in different ways, and it might help if we could agree to divide up the RP a bit, maybe creating new threads?

Also, just so the people fighting in Tyriandor knows (primarily Skinny and Banduria), I will be busy over the weekend due to school and work. I'll probably going to post once per day at best, but I don't know - I, and I'm sure many others too, could appreciate it if we can slow down a bit.

Ok, guys, sorry to burst your bubbles, but me and Sarz have decided to pull out of the war for OOC reasons. Namely that we want a nice little one on one war between each other. I'll make an IC post momentarily. I think MP was gonna pull out, too.

Ok, guys, sorry to burst your bubbles, but me and Sarz have decided to pull out of the war for OOC reasons. Namely that we want a nice little one on one war between each other. I'll make an IC post momentarily. I think MP was gonna pull out, too.

Well that sucks, but oh well. We still have a good enough amount of people on each side to keep the fight going. Maybe let a guy or two on the CAD side to balance it out, dont' know.

Yeah, Doom and I have been planning a one-on-one war for MONTHS, but since it's the founding nations of our respective alliances (CAD and Woodstock Pact) duking it out, 1) it still makes sense in the general context of this war being CAD vs. Woodstock Pact and 2) there's specific history involving our two nations that makes a million times more sense than battling MassPwnage would.

Pulling out. Time issues.

Damn. Ah well, GE and Freudotopia will be back soon, and they'll help even things out.

TAG, because the thread tools button isn't working.

This thread has been tagged.

I may join this in the future (on the WP) as soon as I get my forces reorganized, if that's all right with you guys.

This thread has been tagged.

I may join this in the future (on the WP) as soon as I get my forces reorganized, if that's all right with you guys.

I don't think that will work, since that would debalance the scale between WP and CAD. You can join the CAD side, if your ideology allows for it.

I don't think that will work, since that would debalance the scale between WP and CAD. You can join the CAD side, if your ideology allows for it.

With Generic Empire and Freudotopia coming along, those scales will be quite unbalanced. Velkya might be allright to join, since Sarz, MP and Doomie dropped out - it would make it the same numbers as before I think.

With Generic Empire and Freudotopia coming along, those scales will be quite unbalanced. Velkya might be allright to join, since Sarz, MP and Doomie dropped out - it would make it the same numbers as before I think.

Oh, okay, I thought we were balanced with those two guys.

Isn't Yafor2 currently fighting GE? Even so, with several million men in situ, the scales are pretty heavily balanced towards CAD all ready.

EDIT: Correction

Is there space for me? I did post in the IC thread but I figured I might be too late (the thing progressed 5 pages overnight..)

Is there space for me? I did post in the IC thread but I figured I might be too late (the thing progressed 5 pages overnight..)

Well, you did post, so I don't think there'll be a problem.

Isn't Yallak currently fighting GE? Even so, with several million men in situ, the scales are pretty heavily balanced towards CAD all ready.

Nah, Yafor 2 is fighting GE, right now. Yallak is also on the CAD side (different nation) though I'm not sure if he's taking part in the RP.

Questers: Welcome aboard, maity, we'll need all the firepower we can get if we want to win. :)

OOC: Warmaster, how the bloody bleep do you have 25 SDs? Number one, there's no way a nation of your size can support anywhere near that many and number two, you wouldn't be able to have much of a navy especially if you have over six million troops in an invasion site (which itself is ridiculous).

In all honesty, I'm thinking of getting myself back into this war to keep the scales from being unbalanced in CAD's favour.

Warmaster, another thing, 500mm shells would require a massive gun that would not be transportable by conventional means except by an ungodly massive device that would strain credulity to land -- basically, it would be a land battleship.

Banduria, a 155mm ETC would require something at least twice the size and four times the mass of a present-day SPG (i.e. 240 tonnes), and if it's armoured like an MBT, that brings the weight up substantially (i.e. 500 tonnes).

Nah, Yafor 2 is fighting GE, right now.

Yes, that's true. The link to the RP is in my sig, in case you want to read the RP.

OOC: Warmaster, how the bloody bleep do you have 25 SDs? Number one, there's no way a nation of your size can support anywhere near that many and number two, you wouldn't be able to have much of a navy especially if you have over six million troops in an invasion site (which itself is ridiculous).

In all honesty, I'm thinking of getting myself back into this war to keep the scales from being unbalanced in CAD's favour.

I honestly didn't want to say anything for fear of being labelled a moaner, but those troop numbers do seem vastly excessive, especially since WP forces don't reach even that number.

[TAG]

Thread tools aren't working for me either.

[TAG]

Thread tools aren't working for me either.

Wait...AMF, are you going to be joining this?

Wait...AMF, are you going to be joining this?

Probably not, but AMF would definately have vested interests on both sides of this war.

Probably not, but AMF would definately have vested interests on both sides of this war.

Ah, okay then.

Wow... you're finally around AMF.

I'm intending to respond to the IC thread soon, but I'm currently working on writing up a long post and the thread advanced several pages literally overnight... Can anyone give me a summary of what's happened so far, and what would affect my fleet (a few hundred kilometres outside Czardasian waters)? It would be really appreciated, thanks.

I may be gone starting sometime tonight(not sure when) up until tomorrow sometime late morning or early afternoon so I won't be online then.

Although I may not. :p:D

Wow... you're finally around AMF.

I've been lurking the past few weeks.

Shit... I have a lot to respond to myself, but because parents are being a bitch and scheduling all kinds of other stuff for me during the weekends—my allotted NS posting time—I probably won't be able to get a post up until Monday or Tuesday. :(

So cool off with the huge quantities of posts, will you people?

RINAF 7th Air Fleet (218,000 personnel)
432 x Sea Fury FA.1
96 x Sea Fury T.2
1764 x Spectre FG.3
744 x Spectre FGR.4
432 x Scimitar F.1
162 x Tiger F.1
60 x Thisby AEW.3
324 x Swordfish S.2
9 x B-108 Thunderhawk
81 x Vulcan B.1
342 x Banshee ADS.2
180 x Wraith EF.2
216 x C-130J Hercules
81 x C-17 Globemaster III
135 x Atlantis K.1
+275 air defence artillery battalions
+9 theatre air defence battalions

Shit... I have a lot to respond to myself, but because parents are being a bitch and scheduling all kinds of other stuff for me during the weekends—my allotted NS posting time—I probably won't be able to get a post up until Monday or Tuesday. :(

So cool off with the huge quantities of posts, will you people?

I think most of the people here haven't had a good war RP in a while so their very enthusastic, at least that's my case. :p

Questers and I have been talking on IRC, we'll be coming in together.

So AMF, I take it that you'll be backing CAD?

So AMF, I take it that you'll be backing CAD?
Stop tempting him! :D :p

I'm not tempting him. And thankfully nobody, select a few people, ICly know about my EOE membership.

Anyway, do you people mind if I send in peacekeeping transports to get as many Czardaian citizens out of there?

OOC: Warmaster, how the bloody bleep do you have 25 SDs? Number one, there's no way a nation of your size can support anywhere near that many and number two, you wouldn't be able to have much of a navy especially if you have over six million troops in an invasion site (which itself is ridiculous).

In all honesty, I'm thinking of getting myself back into this war to keep the scales from being unbalanced in CAD's favour.

Silver Sky sent a huge naval force himself. Pretty sure I'm bigger than he. If you are seriously furious about it, then I could edit it, but it seems reasonable, especially for a culture dedicated to war. As for the troops, 4% of my population (my military) is, I believe, 100 million. 7.8 million is a small fraction of this.

Questers and I have been talking on IRC, we'll be coming in together.

Not to be rude (or anything like that), but I don't think you should join. Currently we have a large inbalance of CAD vs WP. The current war is grossly in WP's favor with 11 nations on our side vs 3 active CAD members (4 if Freud joins). I don't think it is fair, to say, that they should be outnumbered against us.

Warmaster, another thing, 500mm shells would require a massive gun that would not be transportable by conventional means except by an ungodly massive device that would strain credulity to land -- basically, it would be a land battleship.

Banduria, a 155mm ETC would require something at least twice the size and four times the mass of a present-day SPG (i.e. 240 tonnes), and if it's armoured like an MBT, that brings the weight up substantially (i.e. 500 tonnes).


Well, the only ships that have them are SDs and battleships. As for the land howitzers, they are kind of massive. That's why there are only 40 of them deployed.

Silver Sky sent a huge naval force himself. Pretty sure I'm bigger than he. If you are seriously furious about it, then I could edit it, but it seems reasonable, especially for a culture dedicated to war. As for the troops, 4% of my population (my military) is, I believe, 100 million. 7.8 million is a small fraction of this.

At 4% your economy would have collapsed a long time ago. People barely get 3% during extreme emergencies, while your getting 4% for foreign wars. You should be more like at 2% of your pop. Also remember, 7.8 million may not be a lot out of 50 million, but then there is logistics and support which make up more than 3/4ths of the troops. I generally have 1:5 ratio for logistics, you might pull off 1:3, though, that's not very good. Then its different for your navy and for your air force (which usually has 1:10+).

Silver Sky sent a huge naval force himself. Pretty sure I'm bigger than he. If you are seriously furious about it, then I could edit it, but it seems reasonable, especially for a culture dedicated to war. As for the troops, 4% of my population (my military) is, I believe, 100 million. 7.8 million is a small fraction of this.
Size isn't everything, I only have 18 SDs, but my budget is over 3 times yours (8 trillion to 25 Trillion). My military is 60 million, however only 11 million are actually combat troops, (2.5% of my pop), yours is almost double mine.

Not being nity pick, just pointing it out.

Anyway, do you people mind if I send in peacekeeping transports to get as many Czardaian citizens out of there?
Well? Anyway TSS, telegram....

Well? Anyway TSS, telegram....
Responded too. Friend over, won't be online much until sometimes tomorrrow.

Responded, let's keep the conversation going.

Size isn't everything, I only have 18 SDs, but my budget is over 3 times yours (8 trillion to 25 Trillion). My military is 60 million, however only 11 million are actually combat troops, (2.5% of my pop), yours is almost double mine.

Not being nity pick, just pointing it out.
I have one SD that's still operational (sorry TSS, it's the Space Union, the Silver Sky is still undergoing repairs at Mariosz :p), 3 million combat troops maximum, and a much smaller airforce, and my budget is around $14-16 trillion. (reconstituted)

Then again, my political system is very different and I can't just call half the workforce to arms at the drop of a hat....

Also, I believe this entire sequence of events was started just because Warmaster hadn't participated in a good war RP for a while. :p

SEA, AMF already said that he has interests on both sides of the conflict, so I'd keep him as neutral so far. He might be more likely to join the CAD's side because a) they're outnumbered and outgunned by far at the moment—one of the main reasons he joined the Consortium—and b) a few old Freekish enemies, such as Sarz, Prae, and Hoggy, are on the Czardaian side... but I wouldn't jump to conclusions.

I think I informed the WP of this already, and Czardas knows, so I'm just telling everyone else who didn't get the news. I'm unofficially involving myself. I understand the gross imbalance in terms of active players between the WP/Czardaian and CAD forces, but I hope it's a consolation that all I'm doing is pitching a single group of outdated aircraft into the foray (19 total). I just want to be active as a Pact member and as a RPer, since I've been neglecting both those duties as of late.

Objections, please tell me. I'll listen, and may withdraw if the consensus is that I ought not be involved.

At 4% your economy would have collapsed a long time ago. People barely get 3% during extreme emergencies, while your getting 4% for foreign wars. You should be more like at 2% of your pop. Also remember, 7.8 million may not be a lot out of 50 million, but then there is logistics and support which make up more than 3/4ths of the troops. I generally have 1:5 ratio for logistics, you might pull off 1:3, though, that's not very good. Then its different for your navy and for your air force (which usually has 1:10+).

Yeah, but still, I would say not more than half of that 50 million would be involved, counting the air armada and the fleet. All this math is confusing me...:p But I would put it more at like 2.5%...after all, there is an entire caste dedicated to warriors. I mean, if these numbers are completely ridiculous, like I said, I'll edit them.

Size isn't everything, I only have 18 SDs, but my budget is over 3 times yours (8 trillion to 25 Trillion). My military is 60 million, however only 11 million are actually combat troops, (2.5% of my pop), yours is almost double mine.

Not being nity pick, just pointing it out.

All right. I'll cut it down to twelve SDs. Sorry for not checking your budget before I made that comment, but I was in a hurry at the time and I pretty much just glanced at population. Besides, I was also looking at numbers for other huge ships, like hypercarriers and arsenal ships, which might (and might not, I don't know) be similar in cost and size to SDs.

Well, the only ships that have them are SDs and battleships. As for the land howitzers, they are kind of massive. That's why there are only 40 of them deployed.
My mistake on the 500mm shells -- just that I saw SPGs called "Colossus" and thought they were part of the same weapons system. (If it was, it'd weigh about as much as a destroyer displaces, several thousands of tonnes.) As for the land howitzers, that makes more sense to me now.

So AMF, I take it that you'll be backing CAD?
I'd personally object to AMF being involved in the war. Nothing against him or his RPing, but everything against the unmanageable mess this war has become.

Silver Sky sent a huge naval force himself. Pretty sure I'm bigger than he. If you are seriously furious about it, then I could edit it, but it seems reasonable, especially for a culture dedicated to war. As for the troops, 4% of my population (my military) is, I believe, 100 million. 7.8 million is a small fraction of this.
There's also the matter of LANDING 7.8 million troops (or six million as you're claiming). Secondly, I seriously doubt The Silver Sky has 25 SDs.

You shouldn't be able to have uber armies and navies without having that cause detrimental effects on your economy, even if your nation is bred for war. I only recently even added 15 SDs into my fleet before I RP'd an economic depression and I'm about twice your size.

I think we should wait till Monday and Tuesday to see if Generic Empire and Freudotopia will be coming to help out the CAD. Also, you guys can recruit more people on your side if you want.

I think we should wait till Monday and Tuesday to see if Generic Empire and Freudotopia will be coming to help out the CAD. Also, you guys can recruit more people on your side if you want.

Good idea. We need to wait for Prae as well.

The Voltaru Fleet comprises the 5th, 6th and 7th Fleet of the Voltaru Navy. Several of these ships are of Sarzonian design and specifications, and therefore have kept the Sarzonian designation.

The V-08 "Stinger" is the standard plane on most of the carriers - it is basically an ordinary, average fighter. The higher end capital ships have another class of planes as well - V-09 "Condor," V-13 "Twin-Tail" and the V-14 "Albetross." Most of these are equipped with Pelican Anti Ship missiles and/or Erne AA missiles.

The standard support ships are also accompanying the fleet (if you need them, Ill post them at another time...right now I have a headache lol) There is a minimal troop presence which will only be deployed in the final stages of the ground war. If you think anything if off, please tell... I need a nap. lol

The 7th Fleet
Admiral Dera Saltrow, commander
Flagship: V.B.S. Jericho, Vigilant-class Trimaran command battleship
(5) Neptune-class trimaran superdreadnought
V.B.S. Valen, Valiant, Vico, Vertigo, Vengeance
(5) Greenmanbry-class Trimaran battle carrier (160 aircraft each)
V.B.S. Fearless, Foresight, Finesse, Ferocity, Freedom
(2) Valiant-class Trimaran super carrier (185 aircraft)
V.B.S. Woodstock, Timiocato
(10) Warcrown Class Super Carrier (100 aircraft each)
Leadship - V.B.S. Horizon
(12) Capital-class Trimaran nuclear powered guided missile battleship
Leadship - V.B.S. Iratus
(100) Waterhouse Class AA Destroyers
(100) Jassan Class ASW Destroyers
(150) Voltaru Class Trimaran Heavy Cruisers
(100) Bearback Class AA Frigates
(100) Niche Class ASW Frigates
(50) Steadfast-class SSBN/SSGN
(100) Clawtooth Class SSBN
(50) Navarre Class SSN
Leadship - V.S.S. Raven
--------------------------------------------
Total Ships = 785 combatant ships (635 surface, 150 Sub)
Total Planes = 1000 V-08, 1170 V-09/13/14


The 6th Fleet
Admiral Bertan Maledd, commander
Flagship: V.B.S. Killjoy, Warcrown Class Super Carrier (100 Aircraft)
(14) Jassan Class Carriers (80 Aircraft)
Leadship - V.B.S. Renaissance
(75) Waterhouse Class AA Destroyers
(75) Jassan Class ASW Destroyers
(50) Voltaru Class Trimaran Heavy Cruisers
(50) Bearback Class AA Frigates
(50) Niche Class ASW Frigates
(20) Clawtooth Class SSBN/SSGN
(80) Athani Class SSN
(50) Repulse Class Troop Transports (1000 troops)
---------------------------------------------
Total Ships = 465 combatant ships (365 surface, 100 Sub)
Total Planes = 1120 V-08, 100 V-09/13/14

The 5th Fleet
Fleet Admiral Ja'rod Kathon, commander
Flagship: V.B.S. Revolution, Vigilant-class Trimaran command battleship
(10) Neptune-class trimaran superdreadnought
V.B.S. Justice, Juggernaut, Jemadar, Jannock, Jassan; V.B.S. Radical, Rampage, Rapture, Regent, Resurgent
(4) Gavin Newsom-class Trimaran hypercarrier (280 aircraft)
V.B.S. Kris, Kukri, Kinetic, Komatik
(25) Warcrown Class Carriers (100 aircraft)
Leadship - V.B.S. Egregious
(200) Waterhouse Class AA Destroyers
(200) Jassan Class ASW Destroyers
(300) Voltaru Class Trimaran Heavy Cruisers
(150) Bearback Class AA Frigates
(150) Niche Class ASW Frigates
(200) Clawtooth Class SSBN/SSGN
(200) Athani Class SSN
---------------------------------------------
Total Ships = 1440 combatant ships (1040 surface, 400 Sub)
Total Planes = 2500 V-08, 1120 V-09/13/14


Totals
Ships = 2685 combatant ships (2035 surface, 650 Sub)
Planes = 7010 (4620 V-08, 2390 V-09/13/14)

Not to be rude (or anything like that), but I don't think you should join. Currently we have a large inbalance of CAD vs WP. The current war is grossly in WP's favor with 11 nations on our side vs 3 active CAD members (4 if Freud joins). I don't think it is fair, to say, that they should be outnumbered against us.

In that case, I'll downsize my forces to a special forces deployment of several hundred or less.

So, MP, Doom, and a few others have left?? Who's on whose side now?

So far, I see:

Allied forces:
Czardas
Sarzonia
Skinny87
Praetonia
Kahanistan
Velkya
The Silver Sky
Ollieland
The Voltarum
Questers
Taldaan
Space Union
Isselmere

Occupiers:
The Warmaster
The Parthians
Banduria

So, MP, Doom, and a few others have left?? Who's on whose side now?

So far, I see:

Allied forces:
Czardas
Velkya
Sarzonia
Praetonia
Kahanistan
Velkya
The Silver Sky
Ollieland
The Voltarum
Questers
Taldaan
Space Union
Isselmere

Occupiers:
The Warmaster
The Parthians

*Waves*

Fighting in Tyriandor on the WP side. Don't forget Banduria for the CAD

Although most pro-Czardas forces are quite small, I'm beginning to become concerned about the numbers imbalance against the CAD forces. Due to this factor -- which I must stress is paramount in my mind -- as well as time constraints imposed on me by RL issues, I will likely scale-down my involvement and the size of my stated commitment to this RP to provide a level playing field.

The CAD forces didn't care about a numbers imbalance against Czardas earlier. :rolleyes:

Good point. Well, business as previous, then.

The CAD forces didn't care about a numbers imbalance against Czardas earlier. :rolleyes:

Indeed. Swarming over Czardas seemed perfectly legitimate.

Now that I think about it, they didn't. Forgot what I said, were going to just drive them out of Czardas.

Now that I think about it, they didn't. Forgot what I said, were going to just drive them out of Czardas.
Now that's the Space Union I know! :p :D :)

I'd personally object to AMF being involved in the war. Nothing against him or his RPing, but everything against the unmanageable mess this war has become.
I agree that this war is really unmanageable now. I propose therefore that the main thread "Liberation, with a side order of fries" be reserved for the land war, with separate threads created for the upcoming Silver Sky vs Banduria, Sarz vs Doom, SU vs Parthia naval battles and so on. Then, if AMF wants to join to balance the two sides out—right now about ~20,000 combat ships on the WP's side vs. something like 5,000 on the CAD's, although the ground forces are more even—he could, as long as it was in a separate RP or at least in some way that won't continue to mess up the main thread.

Now that's the Space Union I know! :p :D :)

I was having a lapse of "goodness" today and the past week. I'm back to my more evil self. :p :upyours:

I agree that this war is really unmanageable now. I propose therefore that the main thread "Liberation, with a side order of fries" be reserved for the land war, with separate threads created for the upcoming Silver Sky vs Banduria, Sarz vs Doom, SU vs Parthia naval battles and so on. Then, if AMF wants to join to balance the two sides out—right now about ~20,000 combat ships on the WP's side vs. something like 5,000 on the CAD's, although the ground forces are more even—he could, as long as it was in a separate RP or at least in some way that won't continue to mess up the main thread.

That sounds like a good idea but I have a suggestions. Instead of dividing into land and naval war, why don't we divide it so that we have the north Czardas battles and the south Czardas battles?

There's also the matter of LANDING 7.8 million troops (or six million as you're claiming). Secondly, I seriously doubt The Silver Sky has 25 SDs.

You shouldn't be able to have uber armies and navies without having that cause detrimental effects on your economy, even if your nation is bred for war. I only recently even added 15 SDs into my fleet before I RP'd an economic depression and I'm about twice your size.

About the Silver Sky...you two can work that out. It wasn't just the SDs. It was hypercarriers, giant battleships, arsenal ships...all that. But that's for the two of you. I edited the SD numbers. If even that is ridiculous, then I'll keep editing. I can't say I'm very familiar with economics.

But as for the 7.8 million people (by the way, that's the real number; the 6.6 million figure was before I sent reinforcements), the army is the largest and best arm of the Imperial Armed Forces. Not to mention we are an island nation. It would be ridiculous, therefore, not to have enough landers to cover numbers like these. If you mean I couldn't have landed that many people while being harassed...the Aurdanian spit was empty when I landed, due to a massive bombardment that destroyed defenses and troops (if Czardas hadn't evac'ed them; I forget).

The CAD forces didn't care about a numbers imbalance against Czardas earlier. :rolleyes:

No. Would you if you were on a winning side? I credit Czardas for holding out for so long. He was outnumbered by...was it 5? 5 CAD members, each of which were, I think, bigger than him. If his allies had been present, we would have fought them too. Of course, if, for example, we were outnumbered by about ten to one, we probably would have had second thoughts about attacking Czardas after the battle over the CAD was won.

You seem to be completely ignoring my point, which is that people are whining about the numbers being unbalanced against CAD where that wasn't a consideration for you when you dogpiled Czardas. Secondly, island nations need larger navies than they do armies.

It seems to me that you're only in it to win and you don't care what kind of story you tell.

I think we should wait till Monday and Tuesday to see if Generic Empire and Freudotopia will be coming to help out the CAD. Also, you guys can recruit more people on your side if you want.

Yeah, they're back. They should post something soon.

No. Would you if you were on a winning side? I credit Czardas for holding out for so long. He was outnumbered by...was it 5? 5 CAD members, each of which were, I think, bigger than him. If his allies had been present, we would have fought them too. Of course, if, for example, we were outnumbered by about ten to one, we probably would have had second thoughts about attacking Czardas after the battle over the CAD was won.

Well now we outnumber you. We are having second thoughts about being fair to your side, ironic isn't it. :p

That sounds like a good idea but I have a suggestions. Instead of dividing into land and naval war, why don't we divide it so that we have the north Czardas battles and the south Czardas battles?
'Tis a passing good idea. I'll do something about it eventually.

So AMF, I take it that you'll be backing CAD?

Erm....I remember saying that I wasn't getting involved, but merely tagging the thread......

Erm....I remember saying that I wasn't getting involved, but merely tagging the thread......

I think you've gained such a reputation as a war-lover that even if you just post a tag in a war thread, the people start thinking your getting involved. ;)

Erm....I remember saying that I wasn't getting involved, but merely tagging the thread......
Consider my statement retracted.

You seem to be completely ignoring my point, which is that people are whining about the numbers being unbalanced against CAD where that wasn't a consideration for you when you dogpiled Czardas. Secondly, island nations need larger navies than they do armies.

It seems to me that you're only in it to win and you don't care what kind of story you tell.

Whatever. I don't want the IC war to become an OOC rivalry. And I would be stupid to expect you to give up or not try because you feel this is unfair. But about the island army/navy thing, let me explain. The Imperium is complex and a good side effect of this thread is that people are coming to understand it.

The Imperium is violent because of its religion, which designates every non-allied nation as infidels, idolators, heathens...that kind of thing, and because of its code of honor which, among other things, basically says that if someone pushes you, push back with overwhelming force and remind them of their weakness before the Imperium. Obviously there are nations that are stronger than us (a lot of them are in this thread), but the arrogance of being the gods' chosen warriors goes a long way. To fully subjugate an infidel nation and convert/enslave/purge its population, land superiority is necessary. The navy plays a role as escorting troops to a land to be conquered, and supporting them when they land, which is exactly what I've done here. We have to have a strong navy to allow the Legions to do their job, but since I'm unaware of major wars that have been won or lost solely by ships, the Legions have the more important role and are thus stronger.

Erm, I think I was the only person openly moaning about there being a dogpile against those invading Czardas. Neither Banduria nor The Warmasters made any such comment, to my recollection. I was simply concerned that massive overkill would ruin the fun of the RP for everyone.

Erm, I think I was the only person openly moaning about there being a dogpile against those invading Czardas. Neither Banduria nor The Warmasters made any such comment, to my recollection. I was simply concerned that massive overkill would ruin the fun of the RP for everyone.

CAD didn't seem concerned about that when they dogpiled Czardas. Anyway, CAD forces haven't posted in a while - what's going on?

Yes, Isselmere's right, too many people would kill the spirit of the RP, and the CAD wasn't complaining, and I hope that's that.

I can't speak for the rest of the CAD, but Czardas has been busy and hasn't had time to post a response to my latest attack in the battle for Czarna, so I have nothing to reply to.

OOC: Czardas, what seperate threads? Will there be a seperate thread for each battle or something? Won't that get a tad confusing?

It'll be less confusing than the current thread. The naval battle between Banduria and Silver Sky should be transferred to a different thread, while the Czarna and Tyriandor fronts can remain in the current one. Further naval battles &c. should be kept in separate threads.

It'll be less confusing than the current thread. The naval battle between Banduria and Silver Sky should be transferred to a different thread, while the Czarna and Tyriandor fronts can remain in the current one. Further naval battles &c. should be kept in separate threads.

Ahhh, okay. Anyone seen Banduria about recently?

Ahhh, okay. Anyone seen Banduria about recently?
I sent him a TG, but he has yet to reply. (He's also been inactive for the past few days.)

What kinds of defenses are there in Czarna? I wanted to slip my Special Forces commander into the city with some files to give to the Czardaian military.

The north is protected by a ridiculous amount of troops, artillery, EMP batteries, and the like. The south is protected by the Zaïr River and several squadrons of cruisers (divided between missile and gun cruisers); your special forces could be escorted in by plane to the underground bunkers where my government is hiding.

Czardas, a thought just occurred to me. Sorry to distract you from your IC post with all this OOC grumbling...but if the EMP disables a missile, won't it fall to earth a harmless dud and not explode? In that case there would be far fewer losses; the only deaths would be from those who were crushed by them.

The explosive still might go off due to friction or the impact, depending on the weapon's construction and the sensitivity of the explosive.

Isselmere has a point, but military explosives are generally not sensitive enough to do that most of the time, you may get 5 to 25 out of 200 that actually do that.

Hey, skinny, why must you ignore the Commander of We Buy It inc. forces? He might be insulted by now. :p:D

Now that I think about it, they didn't. Forgot what I said, were going to just drive them out of Czardas.

*Readies a battlefleet*

But seriously, I'm only considering bringing in a Marine division or two along with a support fleet.

Hey, skinny, why must you ignore the Commander of We Buy It inc. forces? He might be insulted by now. :p:D

Sorry old boy - I'll try and incorporate a response into an old post - but I feel awful right now, so I'll do it tomorrow sometime. Just assume your men are accepted and fighting etc etc. Tyriandor isn't much of a problem now - our reinforcements are flooding in.

Sorry old boy - I'll try and incorporate a response into an old post - but I feel awful right now, so I'll do it tomorrow sometime. Just assume your men are accepted and fighting etc etc. Tyriandor isn't much of a problem now - our reinforcements are flooding in.
I know, just teasing ya!. :D

Czardas, a thought just occurred to me. Sorry to distract you from your IC post with all this OOC grumbling...but if the EMP disables a missile, won't it fall to earth a harmless dud and not explode? In that case there would be far fewer losses; the only deaths would be from those who were crushed by them.
It really depends on the missile. The missiles will still contain explosives, so if any of them are accidentally hit (and with 6+ million troops that's fairly likely) they'll release their payloads. Still, I fancy 100,000+ missiles falling on your troops, even without explosives, could still do some damage. Unless you make them really light (and thus with not quite a large enough payload to level an entire forest). Besides, anywhere from 2,500 to 12,500 of the missiles could explode anyway due to friction or an unusla impact (based on TSS's statement).

So, do any of you have a problem with me entering with a land force?

Well, anyone to my peacekeeping transports idea or not?

Czardas, I don't have a problem with the existence of the godrods, so don't take it that way...But they are 400mm. The Colossus shells are 500mm. Now obviously the point of the godrods is that they are pretty much solid metal titanic slugs that can't be shot down or off their flight path. However, the Colossus is pretty much the same. Aside from the high explosive inside it, it is very similar to a flying bullet-shaped lump of armor, with a ridiculous amount of mass that's the key to its function. So how should we resolve this? Either the godrods are vulnerable, or the Colossus shells are not.

The thing is though that the Colossus shells contain explosives... thus, they emit heat, and can be tracked and targeted by infrared-guided SAMs. On the other hand, godrods have nothing inside them to emit heat—they're basically just big pieces of metal.

Besides, I never said they weren't vulnerable. If you detect one, you can fire a concussion burst missile which will blast it off course using pure sound. I'm just not all too sure how you'd detect them in the first place, except by tracking the heat left in their wake by burning through the ozone, and they're not satellite-launched so they're not even going that high.

ARMY OOB:
31 DIVISION:
1 INFANTRY BRIGADE
33,000 infantry combatants
-1 Brigade: 11,000 troops
-2 Brigade: 11,000 troops
-3 Brigade: 11,000 troops
2 ARMOUR BRIGADE
-1 Company: 40 MBTs, 20 A/IFVs, 10 Mobile Artillery
-2 Company: 40 MBTs, 20 A/IFVs, 10 Mobile Artillery
-3 Company: 40 MBTs, 20 A/IFVs, 10 Mobile Artillery
3 INFANTRY BRIGADE
4,000 combatants
20,000 logistics workers
-1 Brigade: 1,000 combatants, 5,000 logistics personnel
-2 Brigade: 1,000 combatants, 5,000 logistics personnel
-3 Brigade: 1,000 combatants, 5,000 logistics personnel
-4 Brigade: 1,000 combatants, 5,000 logistics personnel

The thing is though that the Colossus shells contain explosives... thus, they emit heat, and can be tracked and targeted by infrared-guided SAMs. On the other hand, godrods have nothing inside them to emit heat—they're basically just big pieces of metal.

Besides, I never said they weren't vulnerable. If you detect one, you can fire a concussion burst missile which will blast it off course using pure sound. I'm just not all too sure how you'd detect them in the first place, except by tracking the heat left in their wake by burning through the ozone, and they're not satellite-launched so they're not even going that high.
Godrods would emit thermal signatures owing to the high speed at which they travel. They would not, however, contain any explosive, being solid slugs of a high density material.

Colossus rounds would have to be made of less dense material of necessity, else the explosive they contain would be contained by the projectile. That written, the density of the material used in the construction of an armour piercing projectile would require something of great power to pre-detonate it or to force it off course. It would not be entirely impossible to destroy such a round, but it would be very difficult with a standard medium range SAM.

All right. So I'll just treat the godrods as being very difficult to actually destroy (solid metal is like that :p) but they could be blasted off course with a group of missiles.

Hey, if any of you want my MSN to coordinate attacks (Czardas side) or for me to explain my weapons (CAD side) just TG me and I'll give it too you.

Well, anyone to my peacekeeping transports idea or not?
Well?

Freudotopia: Since this was a problem that I accepted too, it would also apply to you too, your fleet could not have entered 25 km away from Port Khufi. Our fleets are stationed all around there, a good distance away and would have intercepted you far ahead. You will be engaging our fleets (which are over 100 km away from the shore of Czardas) not the port immediately.

Um, Warmasters.. I dont' think hacking CAMERA would be just as easy as that, the control systems would probably have wiped themselves and self destructed, or at least, someone would have done it already...

OOC: Anybody for my peacekeeping transports or against?

I've decided to fly in three Rapid Defense Force (RDF) divisions, which are essentially airborne troops. That will be a total of about...18,000 troops, with less than 6,000 combat, along with two hundred aircraft for support and combat roles. Total:

Ground Deployments:

3rd Rapid Defense Force Division
Light Infantry Brigade Alpha
1,000 men, 50 vehicles
Light Infantry Brigade Bravo
1,000 men, 50 vehicles
Light Infantry Brigade Charlie
1,000 men, 50 vehicles
Light Artillery Battery Delta
600 men, 50 artillery pieces
Light Armored Brigade Echo
1,000 men, 100 vehicles
Support Brigade Foxtrot
1,000 men, 100 vehicles

4th Rapid Defense Force Division
Light Infantry Brigade Alpha
1,000 men, 50 vehicles
Light Infantry Brigade Bravo
1,000 men, 50 vehicles
Light Infantry Brigade Charlie
1,000 men, 50 vehicles
Light Artillery Battery Delta
600 men, 50 artillery pieces
Light Armored Brigade Echo
1,000 men, 100 vehicles
Support Brigade Foxtrot
1,000 men, 100 vehicles

5th Rapid Defense Force Division
Light Infantry Brigade Alpha
1,000 men, 50 vehicles
Light Infantry Brigade Bravo
1,000 men, 50 vehicles
Light Infantry Brigade Charlie
1,000 men, 50 vehicles
Light Artillery Battery Delta
600 men, 50 artillery pieces
Light Armored Brigade Echo
1,000 men, 100 vehicles
Support Brigade Foxtrot
1,000 men, 100 vehicles

4th Mechanized Infantry Division
Mechanized Infantry Brigade Alpha
2,000 men, 100 vehicles
Mechanized Infantry Brigade Bravo
2,000 men, 100 vehicles
Mechanized Infantry Brigade Charlie
2,000 men, 100 vehicles
Mechanized Artillery Battery Delta
900 men, 100 artillery pieces
Armored Brigade Echo
2,000 men, 200 vehicles
Aviation Brigade Foxtrot
2,000 men, 200 vehicles
Support Brigade Golf
2,000 men, 200 vehicles

Air Deployments:

Charlie Wing, 1st Air Force
21st Air Superiority Squadron
10x ISF-12 Sturmfalke
22nd Air Superiority Squadron
10x ISF-12 Sturmfalke
23rd Air Superiority Squadron
10x ISF-12 Sturmfalke
24th Close Air Support Squadron
10x AF-17BIII Halberd
25th Close Air Support Squadron
10x AF-17BIII Halberd
26th Interceptor Squadron
10x ISF-2C Valkyrie
27th Interceptor Squadron
10x ISF-2C Valkyrie
28th Electronics Warfare Squadron
10x EW-2C Siren
29th Tanker Squadron
10x K-91 Exxon
30th AWACS Squadron
8x EW-4 Sauron

Juliet Wing, 1st Air Force
91st Air Transport Wing
10x AT-92 Lodestar
92nd Air Transport Wing
10x AT-92 Lodestar
93rd Air Transport Wing
10x AT-92 Lodestar
94th Air Transport Wing
10x AT-92 Lodestar
95th Air Transport Wing
10x AT-92 Lodestar
96th Air Transport Wing
10x AT-92 Lodestar
97th Air Transport Wing
10x AT-92 Lodestar
98th Air Transport Wing
10x AT-92 Lodestar
99th Tanker Squadron
10x K-91 Exxon
100th Tanker Squadron
10x K-101 Exxon

Juliet Wing, 5th Air Force
91st Air Transport Wing
10x AT-92 Lodestar
92nd Air Transport Wing
10x AT-92 Lodestar
93rd Air Transport Wing
10x AT-92 Lodestar
94th Air Transport Wing
10x AT-92 Lodestar
95th Air Transport Wing
10x AT-92 Lodestar
96th Air Transport Wing
10x AT-92 Lodestar
97th Air Transport Wing
10x AT-92 Lodestar
98th Air Transport Wing
10x AT-92 Lodestar
99th Tanker Squadron
10x K-91 Exxon
100th Tanker Squadron
10x K-101 Exxon

Naval Deployments:

-None-

This will be called the Allied Union Expeditionary Force. Czardas, any good airbases near Port Khufi?

Um, Warmasters.. I dont' think hacking CAMERA would be just as easy as that, the control systems would probably have wiped themselves and self destructed, or at least, someone would have done it already...

Seconded. Unless you consulted Czardas first, I call very suspicious, probably godmoding.

Freudotopia, you have to operate under the same conditions CAD forced us to work under. That shelling and paradropping won't be happening, since our combined fleets are gathered outside of Khufi.

OOC: Anybody for my peacekeeping transports or against?
I need an overall response from the main combatants. Do you have a stance on this, CAD members and Woodstock Pact members/Democratic Conservationists alike?

Um, Warmasters.. I dont' think hacking CAMERA would be just as easy as that, the control systems would probably have wiped themselves and self destructed, or at least, someone would have done it already...

Wiped themselves and self-destructed? Why? What happened to Aurdania was that the building that contained the way down was destroyed along with the rest of the city level. What computer is intelligent enough to say, "oh, look, the enemy has destroyed this city" and decide to wipe itself? And who would have gotten there? For somebody to say that it was wiped by an infiltration team or something is far more godmodish, seeing as there were no posts that said anything along those lines. It was accepted in the first thread that a virus could be downloaded onto that same system and shut it down in no more than a few minutes. Waiting 45 minutes for a version that would basically hack whatever password or other systems were keeping outsiders from using CAMERA seems reasonable. I did that specifically so it didn't seem like godmodding. And finally, hacking the login function would probably be a lot easier than hacking the actual system.

I need an overall response from the main combatants. Do you have a stance on this, CAD members and Woodstock Pact members/Democratic Conservationists alike?

Sorry...I ignored it before because I didn't think it affected me. What was your idea?

Wiped themselves and self-destructed? Why? What happened to Aurdania was that the building that contained the way down was destroyed along with the rest of the city level. What computer is intelligent enough to say, "oh, look, the enemy has destroyed this city" and decide to wipe itself? And who would have gotten there? For somebody to say that it was wiped by an infiltration team or something is far more godmodish, seeing as there were no posts that said anything along those lines. It was accepted in the first thread that a virus could be downloaded onto that same system and shut it down in no more than a few minutes. Waiting 45 minutes for a version that would basically hack whatever password or other systems were keeping outsiders from using CAMERA seems reasonable. I did that specifically so it didn't seem like godmodding. And finally, hacking the login function would probably be a lot easier than hacking the actual system.

I'm sorry, but unless you've talked this over with Czardas and he's agreed, I for one will not accept this. I have no idea of the others, but I find this extremely suspicious.

I'm sorry, but unless you've talked this over with Czardas and he's agreed, I for one will not accept this. I have no idea of the others, but I find this extremely suspicious.

Then I will discuss it with him. My argument before seems perfectly valid to me, but I don't want this thread torn apart by a dispute over CAMERA.

I need an overall response from the main combatants. Do you have a stance on this, CAD members and Woodstock Pact members/Democratic Conservationists alike?

No, I don't think you should take part. Right now we don't need people evacuating civilians considering that we already are doing that. It will just put your transports in danger and such. We'll get the job done.

Sorry...I ignored it before because I didn't think it affected me. What was your idea?
I am sending peacekeeping boats, as a neutral party, to get as many Czardaians outta there as possible.

No, I don't think you should take part. Right now we don't need people evacuating civilians considering that we already are doing that. It will just put your transports in danger and such. We'll get the job done.
But I wanna help Czardas somehow....

The RP's already closed and there are already too many people involved.

And The Warmasters, I completely agree with the assessments about CAMERA. Since it's Czardas's system, it's up to him whether you're allowed to hack it or not.

Techically, I was in the RP before the WP joined, since I promised Czardas aid while back, as well as posting a spaceplane recon fly-over.

Aye. To be honest, something at the height of military security is not going to have a USB port, and even if it did it wouldn't just automatically download and run whatever is on the USB stick. Also, viruses do not defeat encryption. Programmes that defeat encryption do so by going through all possible combinations. If Czardas is using high (512kb+, probably more since this is NS and CAMERA seems to have been lavished with funds) encryption this will require: (a) that you ship in lots and lots of supercomputers (b) days, weeks or months to break the code. God forbid he uses fractal or quantum encryption. Then, once you're in, you aren't going to get MS Missile Targetting popping up, you're going to activate a massive system nation-wide system that you don't know how to use.

Furthermore, wheren't there people in the CAMERA bunkers? Wouldn't they have destroyed as much as they could? Wouldn't the retreating Czardaian army have pulled up cables, blown up missile emplacements and poured concrete into bunkers? I know that I would have done. You don't know what state of repair (or disrepair) that that section of CAMERA is in. Firstly because you have shot at it, and secondly because Czardas as probably tried to destroy as much of it as possible too.

So basically, I will accept that you can take over CAMERA, but it will take you an awfully long time and once it's up and running again, it's not going to be complete and you aren't going to know how to use it properly straight away.

Now, I also have problems with you claiming to have pushed back Czardas. Regardless of whether or not you (or anyone else) thinks that it is reasonable, it is common courtesy to allow them to post doing so. You simply do not know how Czardas is going to defend himself, nor do you know what others might do to help Czardas in that city. You can't just claim they do nothing and RP it all in once post.

I also have some questions about your 6.7 million man army:

1) How many of them are combatants?

2) How are you supplying them?

3) Are all of them engaged?

I only ask because there is a reason why no one but you has deployed such massive numbers, despite almost everyone here having the ability to do so or do something close. It's almost impossible to supply such a huge force and, with the attacking fleets apparently neglecting to defend ports in favour of bombarding things, you have effectively ceaded control of the shipping lanes. It also appears as though you are claiming every single soldier is a front-line combatant, which is frankly absurd. On a more practical level, how are your soldiers actually fitting into Czarda? According to your figures, you have as many troops as Britain, France and Germany had deployed along the entire Western Front all trying to attack a single city.

Aye. To be honest, something at the height of military security is not going to have a USB port, and even if it did it wouldn't just automatically download and run whatever is on the USB stick. Also, viruses do not defeat encryption. Programmes that defeat encryption do so by going through all possible combinations. If Czardas is using high (512kb+, probably more since this is NS and CAMERA seems to have been lavished with funds) encryption this will require: (a) that you ship in lots and lots of supercomputers (b) days, weeks or months to break the code. God forbid he uses fractal or quantum encryption. Then, once you're in, you aren't going to get MS Missile Targetting popping up, you're going to activate a massive system nation-wide system that you don't know how to use.

Furthermore, wheren't there people in the CAMERA bunkers? Wouldn't they have destroyed as much as they could? Wouldn't the retreating Czardaian army have pulled up cables, blown up missile emplacements and poured concrete into bunkers? I know that I would have done. You don't know what state of repair (or disrepair) that that section of CAMERA is in. Firstly because you have shot at it, and secondly because Czardas as probably tried to destroy as much of it as possible too.

So basically, I will accept that you can take over CAMERA, but it will take you an awfully long time and once it's up and running again, it's not going to be complete and you aren't going to know how to use it properly straight away.

Now, I also have problems with you claiming to have pushed back Czardas. Regardless of whether or not you (or anyone else) thinks that it is reasonable, it is common courtesy to allow them to post doing so. You simply do not know how Czardas is going to defend himself, nor do you know what others might do to help Czardas in that city. You can't just claim they do nothing and RP it all in once post.

I also have some questions about your 6.7 million man army:

1) How many of them are combatants?

2) How are you supplying them?

3) Are all of them engaged?

I only ask because there is a reason why no one but you has deployed such massive numbers, despite almost everyone here having the ability to do so or do something close. It's almost impossible to supply such a huge force and, with the attacking fleets apparently neglecting to defend ports in favour of bombarding things, you have effectively ceaded control of the shipping lanes. It also appears as though you are claiming every single soldier is a front-line combatant, which is frankly absurd. On a more practical level, how are your soldiers actually fitting into Czarda? According to your figures, you have as many troops as Britain, France and Germany had deployed along the entire Western Front all trying to attack a single city.

Bump. I will reply to all of this. I'm not evading the question. Just hold on a while.

Freudotopia: Since this was a problem that I accepted too, it would also apply to you too, your fleet could not have entered 25 km away from Port Khufi. Our fleets are stationed all around there, a good distance away and would have intercepted you far ahead. You will be engaging our fleets (which are over 100 km away from the shore of Czardas) not the port immediately.

Sorry, I thought your fleets were to the west of Port Khufi and mine were closer to the southwest. Anyway, I had my fleets in that position (just out of CAMERA range, west and slightly south of Port Khufi) since way before the failed peace conference even started, so I think you wouldn’t have the strategic dominance you seem to think you have. Seeing as I was there first, as it were, you wouldn’t be able to cut me off from the island without having to engage me first. We can discuss this by telegram if you want, but the post still stands for now.

Aye. To be honest, something at the height of military security is not going to have a USB port, and even if it did it wouldn't just automatically download and run whatever is on the USB stick. Also, viruses do not defeat encryption. Programmes that defeat encryption do so by going through all possible combinations. If Czardas is using high (512kb+, probably more since this is NS and CAMERA seems to have been lavished with funds) encryption this will require: (a) that you ship in lots and lots of supercomputers (b) days, weeks or months to break the code. God forbid he uses fractal or quantum encryption. Then, once you're in, you aren't going to get MS Missile Targetting popping up, you're going to activate a massive system nation-wide system that you don't know how to use.

Furthermore, wheren't there people in the CAMERA bunkers? Wouldn't they have destroyed as much as they could? Wouldn't the retreating Czardaian army have pulled up cables, blown up missile emplacements and poured concrete into bunkers? I know that I would have done. You don't know what state of repair (or disrepair) that that section of CAMERA is in. Firstly because you have shot at it, and secondly because Czardas as probably tried to destroy as much of it as possible too.

So basically, I will accept that you can take over CAMERA, but it will take you an awfully long time and once it's up and running again, it's not going to be complete and you aren't going to know how to use it properly straight away.

Now, I also have problems with you claiming to have pushed back Czardas. Regardless of whether or not you (or anyone else) thinks that it is reasonable, it is common courtesy to allow them to post doing so. You simply do not know how Czardas is going to defend himself, nor do you know what others might do to help Czardas in that city. You can't just claim they do nothing and RP it all in once post.

I also have some questions about your 6.7 million man army:

1) How many of them are combatants?

2) How are you supplying them?

3) Are all of them engaged?

I only ask because there is a reason why no one but you has deployed such massive numbers, despite almost everyone here having the ability to do so or do something close. It's almost impossible to supply such a huge force and, with the attacking fleets apparently neglecting to defend ports in favour of bombarding things, you have effectively ceaded control of the shipping lanes. It also appears as though you are claiming every single soldier is a front-line combatant, which is frankly absurd. On a more practical level, how are your soldiers actually fitting into Czarda? According to your figures, you have as many troops as Britain, France and Germany had deployed along the entire Western Front all trying to attack a single city.

1. Since this is NS and the Warmaster devotes a lot of funding to his intelligence departments, he would have a good chance to crack the system. Also, from what I know of CAMERA, which I flatter myself to think is more than you do, it is not a nation-wide system. It is an isolated system. There is no centralized command center that controls all the separate launch centers. And since the CAMERA system's only function of interest is launching missiles, it wouldn't take very long to make the system do just that once the Warmaster gets in.

2. You can't assume what Czardas did or did not do, just because it's what you would do in his place. Since Czardas posted no such measures of sabotage, I think it can be assumed that nothing of the sort happened.

3. You say that Warmaster has as many troops as Britain, France and Germany had on the Western Front assaulting Czardas. Yet you wonder why Czardas is being pushed back. Duh. Warmaster has so many men that he's moving forward by the weight of numbers, like some ancient phalanx battle. As Stalin once said about Hitler, "I have more men than he has bullets." I know it's not the best RP etiquette for Warmaster to post that he's beating Czardas, but what other outcome could there be? You said it yourself, the sheer number of soldiers attacking Czarna is ridiculous. Thus, those soldiers are pushing ahead. I can't conceive of any situation that would make it otherwise, short of the most massive minefield since the Korean DMZ. (Don't get any funny ideas, Czardas.)

$.02

The RP's already closed and there are already too many people involved.

And The Warmasters, I completely agree with the assessments about CAMERA. Since it's Czardas's system, it's up to him whether you're allowed to hack it or not.

Well, Czardas did design and build the system, but Warmaster is in control of it now, so its up to Warmaster to decide what happens to the system, after discussing with Czardas and reaching an agreement, of course. If it were up to Czardas, Warmaster would never be able to hack the system.

Here's a sarcastic analogy for you. If you took over one of my cities, and I got to dictate whether the citizens were captured/killed/freed/changed into Uzi-toting resistance fighters at will, you wouldn't think that very fair at all, would you. It's not who made it, produced it, or fashioned it, it's who is in control of it.

Sorry, I thought your fleets were to the west of Port Khufi and mine were closer to the southwest. Anyway, I had my fleets in that position (just out of CAMERA range, west and slightly south of Port Khufi) since way before the failed peace conference even started, so I think you wouldn’t have the strategic dominance you seem to think you have. Seeing as I was there first, as it were, you wouldn’t be able to cut me off from the island without having to engage me first. We can discuss this by telegram if you want, but the post still stands for now.

....The fact that you were "there" the whole time should've been brought up a lot earlier, then.

So... anyone know where Banduria is anyway? I am not sure about Silver Sky, but I really want to crush his fleet soon, so we can move on to other aspects of this war.

Well, Czardas did design and build the system, but Warmaster is in control of it now, so its up to Warmaster to decide what happens to the system, after discussing with Czardas and reaching an agreement, of course. If it were up to Czardas, Warmaster would never be able to hack the system.

Here's a sarcastic analogy for you. If you took over one of my cities, and I got to dictate whether the citizens were captured/killed/freed/changed into Uzi-toting resistance fighters at will, you wouldn't think that very fair at all, would you. It's not who made it, produced it, or fashioned it, it's who is in control of it.

Um, it's freeform, you obviously haven't RPed around here much, because that actually is how it works. Of course, there are factors - how well the invading force treats the locals, how indoctrinated the locals are etc. Just because Warmaster is in control of it doesn't mean he can use Czardas' stuff without his consent.

Um, it's freeform, you obviously haven't RPed around here much, because that actually is how it works. Of course, there are factors - how well the invading force treats the locals, how indoctrinated the locals are etc. Just because Warmaster is in control of it doesn't mean he can use Czardas' stuff without his consent.

I think Freudotopia's point was that for IC purposes, having control of it makes it mine.

Voltarum, I'm not sure where Banduria is. He's been active within the last few days...I just sent him a TG reminding him about this thread.

This is long-winded. Read it all, though, please. I am doing my best to put to rest OOC things that have plagued this thread, and so I’m backing it up and defending myself thoroughly.

1. Here’s another bit to add to what Freudotopia said, Praetonia. CAMERA is very unlikely to be damaged. Again, the city of Aurdania was destroyed. The point of that destruction was essentially to flatten the area on which the city lay, NOT to bombard so fiercely that CAMERA was destroyed, deep below the surface. That would take a hell of a bombardment. CAMERA is deep underground, everybody agrees on that. So unless you’re saying that Imperial officers so overdid the bombardment without intending to that everything below the surface was destroyed as well, it was not damaged. And your insinuation that Czardas destroyed it himself is frankly ridiculous. It would be complete godmodding for him to say he did, because he never posted anything like it. Finally, like Freudotopia said, just because you would do it doesn’t mean he did, especially considering the fact that, again, he didn’t.

2. About the USB port, you’re right. But there has to be an interface other than the screen(s) and keyboard(s). For the purposes of my post, it doesn’t matter how the virus was introduced into the system, but simply that it was.

3. I don’t know about computers much. I don’t know what fractal encryption even is, but I know about quantum cryptography. I believe that it ensures infallible security in transmissions between computers. As far as I know it is impossible to encrypt a computer’s login function with quantum ciphers. About the time it would take: Freudotopia is correct about me. The intelligence services of the Imperium, especially the Inquisition, are forced to stay ahead technologically of encryption methods. If they did not, the Imperial monopoly of information and dogma would be threatened, which cannot be allowed. He’s also correct that the CAMERA system is not nation-wide. Aurdania has its own separate CAMERA system; the system is localized. To say it is not is to say either that Aurdania controls all of them and that all other control centers serve no purpose, or that the control center at Aurdania serves no purpose.

4. If one were to accept that I got into CAMERA, then it seems to me that it would not be hard to fire missiles if needed. Other than the security protecting the system from outsiders at first, why would Czardas take the trouble to make it confusing to fire, just in the off chance that someone penetrates it? He says in his OOC information thread that CAMERA is something that “no-one except a naval or air superpower could ever have more than a faint hope of getting past”. Somebody who has an attitude like that is unwilling to hamper the efforts of his own engineers when they fire by making the action of firing difficult, just to thwart outsiders who might take CAMERA.

5. I did not say that Czardas did nothing. I’m not an idiot, in case nobody picked up on it. Freudotopia is right: the etiquette was a little doubtful, but numerically what do you expect to happen? The sheer physical power of 6.7 million men is incredible. Not to mention the fact that there are less than 2.6 million Czardaians, considering he’s taken casualties. Plus, as I said, I believe many of them are civilian militias. These inexperienced soldiers are unlikely to be able to hold back professional soldiers who do not fear death itself, but merely the fact that death prevents them from killing more of the enemy. What these militiamen are relying on is patriotism. Here’s an example of how patriotism only goes so far: In World War II, the Americans had the morale power of extreme patriotism and a drive to get the job done. You may hold this up as an example of the power of democratic patriotism, but the fact is America’s industrial potential was far in advance of Japan’s. Let me quote an excellent little work here.

“Had, say, Nimitz lost more than one carrier at Midway, they would have been replaced, in that same year, by three new fleet carriers, three light fleet carriers, and fifteen escort carriers; in 1943, by five fleet carriers, six light fleet carriers, and twenty-five escort carriers; and in 1944, by nine fleet carriers and thirty-five escort carriers.” (Kennedy, Paul. The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers. New York, NY: Random House, Inc., 1987.)

As you can see, it seems a little more reasonable to suggest that the war in the Pacific was won by the incredible industrial potential of America more than the enthusiasm of American soldiers. While I’m on the subject, I have no idea of Czardaian economic and industrial strength, because I believe he said once he didn’t use nseconomy.com for his stats. So I don’t know who has the stronger economy. But I do know that I have a larger population than he does, which means a larger workforce. I know that size isn’t everything, but in the absence of direct comparison, I’m just putting it out there.

6. As regards supply, the supply is a line between Palma and the forward base near Czarna. A force of C-5 Galaxies and Lawgiver transport helicopters carries the needed cargo. I fail to understand how this is a problem. From what I can figure from the World Book Encyclopedia, 1987 edition, “Army, United States”, in every American division there are 15 combat battalions. This comes out to, by my calculation, 18,000 combat soldiers out of 19,200 soldiers in an infantry division. This suggests that even if ALL those 1,200 miscellaneous staff were logistics workers, only 6.6% of a division is support workers, and of course the actual figure is less, because that completely ignores military police, engineers, aviation and cavalry elements, and artillery. So if we work with 6.6% percent, which is way too high, we get 442,200. Many of these would be on the supply ships, of which there are 240. So now our number is 1,842 logistics workers on each supply ship, which fulfills the statistic, which for the last time is impossibly large. Is this impossible? I think not. I hope that lays to rest the question of supply for my nation.

7. Yes, all of them are engaged...to a degree. I don’t think Czardas or I would say that the situation is a Revolutionary War-esque situation of the two armies facing each other in three extremely long ranks. That’s ridiculous, because that would mean that 4.1 million Legionaries are not matched up against anybody, and so would naturally enfold Czardas, flanking him, and possibly surrounding him as well, which would mean his destruction would be ensured. Or they might march into Czarna, cut off his artillery support and such, take the city, and then attack from behind at their leisure, having reversed the position. So it’s unlikely Czardas would agree to that being the case. I picture it as two masses of soldiers crashing into each other, the Czardaian side significantly smaller. That seems more likely.

8. How am I not defending ports? When last I checked a map of Czardas, the only port I have occupied is that of Palma. Now, my fleet is in the way of anybody trying to get to that port. Just because I fire off missiles now and then at Czarna to support the infantry attack doesn’t mean that I’m not guarding my port.

9. As for fitting into Czarna, I don’t believe I am. Unless I’ve been kept in the dark here, Czardas and I are fighting on the hill on which the part of Czarna facing my army is situated. Besides, it takes a lot of manpower to hold a city, especially a capital city. While you’re asking how the numerical equivalent of the Western Front is attacking Czarna, why not go ahead and ask how a little less than twice the number of German troops on the Western front during August 1914 is defending it? And apparently so successfully that they are completely holding their own with an army 2.57 times its size, without being driven back or losing any ground for more than a little while? This is what you seem to be implying, and it seems to me to be ridiculous. And while we’re using the Western Front as an example, obviously the German advance into France was halted before reaching Paris. Now, my source (Willmott, H.P. World War I. New York, NY: Dorling Kindersley Publishing Inc., 2003) does not list numbers for the French 6th and 9th Armies, Paris Defence Forces, and Territorial & Reserve Divisions. If we assume that they contained 203,750 men (the average of the known sizes of the 5th, 4th, 3rd, and 2nd Armies), then we see that French armies alone outnumbered the Germans, with 1,630,000 million men. So the stalling of the German advance occurred with a significant Allied advantage in numbers. Now think what would have happened if the German forces outnumbered the French by the same ratio that I do the Czardaians. This gives the Germans 4,189,100 men. Can you really argue that such disparity in numbers could have been made up for by the French? Such a scenario shows what the reality of the situation at Czarna is.

The RP's already closed and there are already too many people involved.
Then again, you have to wait for teh Czar's word... ;)

SEA, it is almost a consensus that we do have too many people already engaged in the RP. Unless you got something really useful to contribute, I don't think that many will agree to allowing another participant to be in.

....The fact that you were "there" the whole time should've been brought up a lot earlier, then.

So... anyone know where Banduria is anyway? I am not sure about Silver Sky, but I really want to crush his fleet soon, so we can move on to other aspects of this war.

If you bothered to read any of Death to Democracy before you jumped into the peace process, you would've known that and this would not be an issue. Not to be an asshole, but I'm going to continue my attack on Port Khufi, exactly as I had planned. The SU fleet can in no way be between me and Port Khufi, because I was under the impression that they were attacking Parthia's fleet, way to the south. Your fleet, Voltarum, is apparently attacking Banduria, so this Port Khufi attack has nothing to do with you. You may be operating under the impression that Czardas's map showing where the fleets were was accurate. He did not consult me on that, and I'm taking the opportunity to correct him. My fleet has been just outside of CAMERA range, ten degrees south of west, for as long as I've been active in this RP, which is quite a while. Reading my posts in DtD would tell you that. And there's no way anyone could have known that my fleet was going to move east, so I've got the jump on anyone who tries to attack me from the northwest. I think that Skinny has a small fleet near port Khufi. That will be dealt with as soon as he responds in the main thread.

Whew. Not sure why this fleet thing is pissing me off so much. I'm not a naval guy anyway. I prefer air or ground. Maybe that's why I'm so desperate to start a real fight...

The Warmaster, you realize that with all of your 6.7 million focused on Czarna, which would be physically impossible to fit in the area you are assualting, that I could take a 5,000 man force in to the back of your forces and basically destroy all of your guys from behind cause everyone is focused on Czarna.

Anyway, back the impossibilities of your forces.

1) If they are all combat troops then how are you supplying them? Not just with bullets, shells, missiles, and ammo, but with food, gas, medical supplies and spare parts.

2) It would be physically impossible to fit 6.7 million troops with there tanks, and other vehicles into an attack corridor on Czarna, you'd have a line of troops so long that it would go back to the coast and would be a great air strike target.

Um, it's freeform, you obviously haven't RPed around here much, because that actually is how it works. Of course, there are factors - how well the invading force treats the locals, how indoctrinated the locals are etc. Just because Warmaster is in control of it doesn't mean he can use Czardas' stuff without his consent.

1. I have almost twice as many posts as you, and you've been here way longer than I have. I know it's a freeform RP.

2. What I am trying to say was not that now that Warmaster has physical control of the ops center, he can do whatever he wants to the CAMERA system. My point was that Czardas would have to come up with a really convincing argument as to why Warmaster couldn't hack the system. Czardas can't just pull something out of his ass on the order of "no, it's a completely unhackable system. I didn't say this before, but now that it's conveniently not under my military's control, I can control the system as much as I want." Warmaster is trying to hack the system, and I don't see any reason why he shouldn't succeed.

3. If Warmaster captured a conventional SAM launching station and then had his own military engineers start launching missiles from it, you wouldn't have a problem with it. I don't see how CAMERA is different, except that the operational controls are all encrypted to prevent anyone but a determined team of hackers with access to the proper tools from breaching the system's security. Warmaster has the ability and the determination to to do so. CAMERA is, in my mind, to be treated like any other military asset.

4. I think it adds an interesting dimension to the RP, now that Czardas's uber-weaponry is starting to be captured, and there is little that he can do about it. It's a good plot twist. Bravo, Warmaster.

5. If Warmaster needs supplies, personnel, or anything of the sort, I can think of five ways off the top of my head that I can get it to him.

6. My captured city analogy was just that--an analogy. Yes, it might not be the best analogy. Forget it then.

7. There is no point number seven. Move along.

Hey, if Banduria isn't back within a certain amount of time how are we gonna go about/around him?

I'd say if he's still gone by Tuesday the 27th we're gonna have to go around him cause the rest of the RP has progressed so much.

1. I have almost twice as many posts as you, and you've been here way longer than I have. I know it's a freeform RP.

Freud, this is possibily the pinnicale of arrogance. Actually bother trying to find out who the person is, and post count counts for shit.

And FWI, Questers = Hogsweat

The Warmaster, you realize that with all of your 6.7 million focused on Czarna, which would be physically impossible to fit in the area you are assualting, that I could take a 5,000 man force in to the back of your forces and basically destroy all of your guys from behind cause everyone is focused on Czarna.

Anyway, back the impossibilities of your forces.

1) If they are all combat troops then how are you supplying them? Not just with bullets, shells, missiles, and ammo, but with food, gas, medical supplies and spare parts.

2) It would be physically impossible to fit 6.7 million troops with there tanks, and other vehicles into an attack corridor on Czarna, you'd have a line of troops so long that it would go back to the coast and would be a great air strike target.

1. Did you read his latest post, which detailed how he supplied his troops? "Supply" implies all those things you mentioned. Why in the world would you think gas, or spare parts would not fit under the category of "supplies"? Oh, wait. Of course, they fit under the category of cheeseburgers! My mistake.

2. Fine, make an airstrike against him. He might annihilate your forces in the attempt, but go ahead. This is NS, remember? All the numbers are exaggerated. How come nobody has asked how Czardas is fitting 2.6 million troops on one hill? How come nobody asks how they can all be billeted in a city that is slowly being destroyed by firebombing? Czardas himself admits that more and more missiles are getting through, and that whole blocks have been destroyed. Look at the thread. The point of the 6.7 million troops argument, in my mind is how they can all be engaged. Really, they're just pushing over each other to swarm the city, and somehow (don't ask me why or how) Czardas has some uber-soldiers with incredible arms and morale that are pushing back more than twice their number of better-armed, steely-resolved, crazy-eyed killers, plus tanks and heavy weaponry.

Freud, this is possibily the pinnicale of arrogance. Actually bother trying to find out who the person is, and post count counts for shit.

And FWI, Questers = Hogsweat

Don't give me that. When I was new, people rubbed my tiny post count in my face. I don't care if Questers is Hogsweat. I respect Hog from what I've heard of him, but he didn't bother getting to know me before he assumed that I don't know shit about RPing. Does that put him at the pinnacle of arrogance?

Take the beam out of your own eye.

Even if your engineers could somehow activate the CAMERA system, are you sure they could use it properly, if at all? It would be like throwing three average joes into a Abrams and saying, "get to it".

Hey, if Banduria isn't back within a certain amount of time how are we gonna go about/around him?

I'd say if he's still gone by Tuesday the 27th we're gonna have to go around him cause the rest of the RP has progressed so much.

I agree. Its not like he hasn't logged in.

And Freud, thanks for assuming stuff, but I actually DID read the Death to Democracy thread thanks, in fact I posted in it several times as I was involved in the start of all this. I just find it rather lame that you can say that your fleet has just sat there for all these pages as two large enemy fleets have formed around you, and then you pop in so many pages later and say "oh yeah, my fleet is still there and attacking now." If you had been truly "active" you would have posted IC a lot earlier, or at the very least corrected the map much earlier or inform us about your fleet one more time. I mean your first IC post was on page 10 of this thread...

Sigh. But i digress. The arrogance of this OOC nonsense is tiresome.

So, you're assuming that when Czarnas is facing a giant enemy invasion, he's just going to leave the control system of CAMERA (the one in Aurdania anyway) unguarded? As soon as the war breaks out, you're assuming that he won't have people down there ready to, say, fix the system if it breaks? Just because he didn't RP it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Did you RP your entire army receiving diesel supplies from tankers? Did you RP your navy checking and double checking electronics? Did you RP the hit on your economythat would happen when using all those supplies? Did you RP Corporal Blogg eating his rations this morning? No, of course not. They're just things you can assume happen.

Anyway, Freudotopia, I think TSS was referring to the fact that I had 5,000~ posts a few months ago, not to how well (or not as it may be) known I am. I am glad that people can respect me from hearing my name somewhere, but alongside that I won't and don't assume that respect from just existing. But I'm not going to get to know anyone before I make assumptions about their RPing - I can admit I am arrogant, that is a personality flaw.

Even if your engineers could somehow activate the CAMERA system, are you sure they could use it properly, if at all? It would be like throwing three average joes into a Abrams and saying, "get to it".

See Point Four of my Massive Dissertation on Why I'm Right.

Point is, you need to get Czar's permission before pulling this.

1. Since this is NS and the Warmaster devotes a lot of funding to his intelligence departments, he would have a good chance to crack the system.
This isn't how defeating encryption works. He almost certainly has a 100% success rate, but it will take him a long time. Plugging a USB stick into a computer simply will not defeat encryption, unless as I have previously said whoever designed the system is utterly incompetent.

Also, from what I know of CAMERA, which I flatter myself to think is more than you do, it is not a nation-wide system. It is an isolated system.
CAMERA defends other areas in other parts of the country, so yes it is a nation-wide system rather than an isolated one. But whatever, this is semantics completely irrelevent to the argument.

There is no centralized command center that controls all the separate launch centers. And since the CAMERA system's only function of interest is launching missiles, it wouldn't take very long to make the system do just that once the Warmaster gets in.
Again, Warmaster doesn't know how CAMERA works in sufficient detail to get it going straight away (to be fair, no one does in sufficient detail, as Czardas hasn't written about it in great detail). No competently designed system has a centralised command centre that can disable or be used to control the entire system.

2. You can't assume what Czardas did or did not do, just because it's what you would do in his place. Since Czardas posted no such measures of sabotage, I think it can be assumed that nothing of the sort happened.


3. You say that Warmaster has as many troops as Britain, France and Germany had on the Western Front assaulting Czardas. Yet you wonder why Czardas is being pushed back. Duh. Warmaster has so many men that he's moving forward by the weight of numbers, like some ancient phalanx battle. As Stalin once said about Hitler, "I have more men than he has bullets." I know it's not the best RP etiquette for Warmaster to post that he's beating Czardas, but what other outcome could there be? You said it yourself, the sheer number of soldiers attacking Czarna is ridiculous. Thus, those soldiers are pushing ahead. I can't conceive of any situation that would make it otherwise, short of the most massive minefield since the Korean DMZ. (Don't get any funny ideas, Czardas.)

$.02
Have another go:
ow, I also have problems with you claiming to have pushed back Czardas. Regardless of whether or not you (or anyone else) thinks that it is reasonable, it is common courtesy to allow them to post doing so.

The number of soldiers attacking Czarda is also stupid and pretty much godmodding, but still.

1. Here’s another bit to add to what Freudotopia said, Praetonia. CAMERA is very unlikely to be damaged. Again, the city of Aurdania was destroyed. The point of that destruction was essentially to flatten the area on which the city lay, NOT to bombard so fiercely that CAMERA was destroyed, deep below the surface. That would take a hell of a bombardment. CAMERA is deep underground, everybody agrees on that. So unless you’re saying that Imperial officers so overdid the bombardment without intending to that everything below the surface was destroyed as well, it was not damaged. And your insinuation that Czardas destroyed it himself is frankly ridiculous. It would be complete godmodding for him to say he did, because he never posted anything like it. Finally, like Freudotopia said, just because you would do it doesn’t mean he did, especially considering the fact that, again, he didn’t.
Yes of course because intensive bombardment never damages anything, and Czardas's officers inside CAMERA just disappeared into the aether... can we please have a sensible debate about this? Not everything that happens can, due to time and post size restrictions, be RPed. Normally I would agree that if it isnt RPed it didnt happen, but equally nothing has been RPed about whoever was in the CAMERA bunkers, and whatever it was something would have happened to them, so it makes sense that you and Czardas should at least RP that now.

2. About the USB port, you’re right. But there has to be an interface other than the screen(s) and keyboard(s). For the purposes of my post, it doesn’t matter how the virus was introduced into the system, but simply that it was.
It does matter, because if Czardas has used some domestic port or even a specially designed port for CAMERA (which (a) we dont know and (b) is more than reasonable considering that most nations do actually care about security) you will have to spend time finding (or more likely, building) an adaptor, which will again slow you down and again make your insta-hack of a massive military network that much more impossible.

3. I don’t know about computers much. I don’t know what fractal encryption even is, but I know about quantum cryptography. I believe that it ensures infallible security in transmissions between computers. As far as I know it is impossible to encrypt a computer’s login function with quantum ciphers. About the time it would take: Freudotopia is correct about me. The intelligence services of the Imperium, especially the Inquisition, are forced to stay ahead technologically of encryption methods. If they did not, the Imperial monopoly of information and dogma would be threatened, which cannot be allowed. He’s also correct that the CAMERA system is not nation-wide. Aurdania has its own separate CAMERA system; the system is localized. To say it is not is to say either that Aurdania controls all of them and that all other control centers serve no purpose, or that the control center at Aurdania serves no purpose.
Again you dont see what I'm saying. You can't defeat encryption by writing more complex programmes. You can only defeat encryption directly by cycling through combinations, which takes massive computers and time.

4. If one were to accept that I got into CAMERA, then it seems to me that it would not be hard to fire missiles if needed. Other than the security protecting the system from outsiders at first, why would Czardas take the trouble to make it confusing to fire, just in the off chance that someone penetrates it? He says in his OOC information thread that CAMERA is something that “no-one except a naval or air superpower could ever have more than a faint hope of getting past”. Somebody who has an attitude like that is unwilling to hamper the efforts of his own engineers when they fire by making the action of firing difficult, just to thwart outsiders who might take CAMERA.
He wouldn't make it deliberately complex to fire. However, being a complex military system, it will be complex to fire, by its very nature. It doesnt matter that much to Czardas because he's trained his people how to use it. He hasn't trained yours and it will matter to you.

<...>
It doesn't matter how many quotes you can find from WWII, you still have to obey RP ettiquette. It's like this for a reason. Not only does it prevent out and out godmodding, but it also allows the RP to be specific about where he's been pushed back to, how many casualties he's taking, what he's been doing, Etc. It is perfectly reasonable, for instance, for me to carpet bomb your troops using the bomber wings I shipped in Czardas. That would kill large numbers of your men and hold up your advance for some time. How can I (or anyone else) RP that if you just say that you push them back and win?

6. As regards supply, the supply is a line between Palma and the forward base near Czarna.
So where do the supplies come from originally? How can your entire supply line be within Czardas?

A force of C-5 Galaxies and Lawgiver transport helicopters carries the needed cargo. I fail to understand how this is a problem. From what I can figure from the World Book Encyclopedia, 1987 edition, “Army, United States”, in every American division there are 15 combat battalions. This comes out to, by my calculation, 18,000 combat soldiers out of 19,200 soldiers in an infantry division. This suggests that even if ALL those 1,200 miscellaneous staff were logistics workers, only 6.6% of a division is support workers, and of course the actual figure is less, because that completely ignores military police, engineers, aviation and cavalry elements, and artillery. So if we work with 6.6% percent, which is way too high, we get 442,200. Many of these would be on the supply ships, of which there are 240. So now our number is 1,842 logistics workers on each supply ship, which fulfills the statistic, which for the last time is impossibly large. Is this impossible? I think not. I hope that lays to rest the question of supply for my nation.
You've misunderstood your source. It means that there are that many logistics personel directly attached to that division. People working on ships, flying planes, directing supplies, manufacturing supplies are all counted seperately. Your ratio (and the US's ratio) is going to be at least 4:1, possibly even as high as 11:1 (http://s14.invisionfree.com/RPU/index.php?showtopic=6) depending on how high tech your army is.

7. Yes, all of them are engaged...to a degree. I don’t think Czardas or I would say that the situation is a Revolutionary War-esque situation of the two armies facing each other in three extremely long ranks. That’s ridiculous, because that would mean that 4.1 million Legionaries are not matched up against anybody, and so would naturally enfold Czardas, flanking him, and possibly surrounding him as well, which would mean his destruction would be ensured. Or they might march into Czarna, cut off his artillery support and such, take the city, and then attack from behind at their leisure, having reversed the position. So it’s unlikely Czardas would agree to that being the case. I picture it as two masses of soldiers crashing into each other, the Czardaian side significantly smaller. That seems more likely.
Again you haven't understood what I'm saying (lined up in ranks? What the hell?).Even if you are just random charging pell-mell into the city (and that is what I assumed you were doing, incidently) you still have far too many men in too small a space. Modern warfare generally doesn't involve charing your entire army cooks and all directly into enemy positions. From the description you have given me, Czardas's irregular mitilias will find it a simple matter to simply machinegun and mortar your random ultra-packed mass of men.

8. How am I not defending ports? When last I checked a map of Czardas, the only port I have occupied is that of Palma. Now, my fleet is in the way of anybody trying to get to that port. Just because I fire off missiles now and then at Czarna to support the infantry attack doesn’t mean that I’m not guarding my port.
Believe it or not, your ships have to navigate the sea outside the port, which you do not (presumably) have any ships patrolling as you have all posted your ships moving close to the shore.

9. As for fitting into Czarna, I don’t believe I am. Unless I’ve been kept in the dark here, Czardas and I are fighting on the hill on which the part of Czarna facing my army is situated. Besides, it takes a lot of manpower to hold a city, especially a capital city. While you’re asking how the numerical equivalent of the Western Front is attacking Czarna, why not go ahead and ask how a little less than twice the number of German troops on the Western front during August 1914 is defending it?
That is probably a fair comment. Then again, I doubt that Czardas's troops will all be on the frontline. If they are, then he is just as bad as you with regards to this.

And apparently so successfully that they are completely holding their own with an army 2.57 times its size, without being driven back or losing any ground for more than a little while?
Please read the stickies, since you quite clearly don't understand how II roleplay works.

This is what you seem to be implying, and it seems to me to be ridiculous. And while we’re using the Western Front as an example, obviously the German advance into France was halted before reaching Paris. Now, my source (Willmott, H.P. World War I. New York, NY: Dorling Kindersley Publishing Inc., 2003) does not list numbers for the French 6th and 9th Armies, Paris Defence Forces, and Territorial & Reserve Divisions. If we assume that they contained 203,750 men (the average of the known sizes of the 5th, 4th, 3rd, and 2nd Armies), then we see that French armies alone outnumbered the Germans, with 1,630,000 million men. So the stalling of the German advance occurred with a significant Allied advantage in numbers. Now think what would have happened if the German forces outnumbered the French by the same ratio that I do the Czardaians. This gives the Germans 4,189,100 men. Can you really argue that such disparity in numbers could have been made up for by the French? Such a scenario shows what the reality of the situation at Czarna is.
And obviously this then means that any numerical advantage = autowin. Of course, I never actually disputed your claims to probable victory (well, aside from the practicalities of getting your army into such a scenario with such an advantage), only the manner in which you have portrayed it by not allowing Czardas to post his own men pulling back, but what do the facts matter?

The sheer arrogance here amazes me from Freudotopia and Warmaster. Here's the deal:

Point One: CAMERA is a massive system concentrated all over Czardas. Even if you were to control one part of it, you would not control all of it.

Point Two: If the city in which the CAMERA system was leveled or attacked, then Czardas' men would have had sufficent time to destroy and cripple the CAMERA control system there. You don't imagine they'd just let a strategically important piece of hardware that defends that area go free and undamaged? Bullshit - Czardas' men would have blow itr up, shot up equipment, erased harddrives and else things.

Point Three: Even if, by some remote chance, you got one system free, you wouldn't just snap your fingers and go 'Hey, it's ours!'. A complex system like that would have huge security systems and security algorithms to make the NSA sweat in their beds. Breaking them would require years of work and hundreds of NSA-style supercomputers - that's fact.

Point Four: Freudotopia. You claim to have been by Khufi since the beginning, but if you had, and you had actually read the posts in this thread, you would know that I have at least three fleets, including an SD or two, outside Khufi from guarding convoys and just sailing there. Add to that SUs fleet and I believe one other, and your posted attack is crap. You can't just ignore the thousands of allied ships by Khufi, which you would have known were there if you had even scanned the earlier posts in the thread.

Point Five: Warmaster. As I explained above, your claim to the CAMERA system is utter rubbish. Secondly, I don't give a damn if you have a billion soldiers in Czarna, or you consulted with God himself, you don't RP pushing back someone else's forces. You let them decide whats happening, no matter how many troops or what your friends say. It's called etiquette and courtesy. Look it up.

Czardas certainly has his work cut out for him. :p

So, you're assuming that when Czarnas is facing a giant enemy invasion, he's just going to leave the control system of CAMERA (the one in Aurdania anyway) unguarded? As soon as the war breaks out, you're assuming that he won't have people down there ready to, say, fix the system if it breaks? Just because he didn't RP it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Did you RP your entire army receiving diesel supplies from tankers? Did you RP your navy checking and double checking electronics? Did you RP the hit on your economythat would happen when using all those supplies? Did you RP Corporal Blogg eating his rations this morning? No, of course not. They're just things you can assume happen.

Anyway, Freudotopia, I think TSS was referring to the fact that I had 5,000~ posts a few months ago, not to how well (or not as it may be) known I am. I am glad that people can respect me from hearing my name somewhere, but alongside that I won't and don't assume that respect from just existing. But I'm not going to get to know anyone before I make assumptions about their RPing - I can admit I am arrogant, that is a personality flaw.

You know what the difference is between Corporal Blogg’s breakfast and Aurdania is? Aurdania matters. Checking and double-checking electronics doesn’t. Aurdania, and its CAMERA installation, was the ultimate demonstration of Czardaian power to prevent foreign invasion. It was vital prior to and during the naval battle, and the only reason it wasn’t vital till now is cause I leveled it. And it’s important now because of CAMERA. Can you say that at some point it will have a dramatic effect on the thread if Corporal Blogg doesn’t start his day off right?

What if he does have techs or computer specialists down there? Would it make a difference? A squad of heavily armed Legionaries secured the control center. Even if these mechanics were armed, would they be trained fighters as well as the cream of Czardas’ digital crop? Would they have anything more than small-arms? Do you want me to add to my post that I slaughtered a bunch of scientists at little or no cost to myself? I can do that. That would start my day off right.

And we’re all arrogant. There are very few people who can honestly deny it. I mean, the type of person that enjoys roleplaying a nation in a war-torn simulator is probably going to be arrogant as a rule. On the other hand, I also am arrogant. I’ve heard nothing but good about Hogsweat, but I’m not going to step aside and treat you like God. I’m also going to dissect and ridicule your arguments. It’s just what I do. I can honestly say that I’ve enjoyed Copy/Paste-ing these OOC replies down, examining them, and expounding to you all on how I am right. And you know what else I enjoy? IC roleplaying. So let’s get to that.

Here's a sarcastic analogy for you. If you took over one of my cities, and I got to dictate whether the citizens were captured/killed/freed/changed into Uzi-toting resistance fighters at will, you wouldn't think that very fair at all, would you. It's not who made it, produced it, or fashioned it, it's who is in control of it.
False analogy. Point is, those are your "characters" and NS rules dictate that you respect a player's wishes as they relate to his characters. If someone captures my President and I've said from the very beginning I don't want him killed, you don't kill him or I have every bloody right to ignore you.

Since you're talking about a system that Czardas designed, it's still up to HIM to decide whether The Warmaster hacks into it or not. And the ridiculous amount of Godmoding I've seen from The Warmaster only lends credence to my point that he is only interested in winning rather than telling a story. His only responses to my point were "whatever," which is not a response, and a request not to turn IC animosities into a OOC rivalry. He has yet to prove me wrong. I'm still waiting for him to do so.

The sheer arrogance here amazes me from Freudotopia and Warmaster. Here's the deal:

Point One: CAMERA is a massive system concentrated all over Czardas. Even if you were to control one part of it, you would not control all of it.

Point Two: If the city in which the CAMERA system was leveled or attacked, then Czardas' men would have had sufficent time to destroy and cripple the CAMERA control system there. You don't imagine they'd just let a strategically important piece of hardware that defends that area go free and undamaged? Bullshit - Czardas' men would have blow itr up, shot up equipment, erased harddrives and else things.

Point Three: Even if, by some remote chance, you got one system free, you wouldn't just snap your fingers and go 'Hey, it's ours!'. A complex system like that would have huge security systems and security algorithms to make the NSA sweat in their beds. Breaking them would require years of work and hundreds of NSA-style supercomputers - that's fact.

Point Four: Freudotopia. You claim to have been by Khufi since the beginning, but if you had, and you had actually read the posts in this thread, you would know that I have at least three fleets, including an SD or two, outside Khufi from guarding convoys and just sailing there. Add to that SUs fleet and I believe one other, and your posted attack is crap. You can't just ignore the thousands of allied ships by Khufi, which you would have known were there if you had even scanned the earlier posts in the thread.

Point Five: Warmaster. As I explained above, your claim to the CAMERA system is utter rubbish. Secondly, I don't give a damn if you have a billion soldiers in Czarna, or you consulted with God himself, you don't RP pushing back someone else's forces. You let them decide whats happening, no matter how many troops or what your friends say. It's called etiquette and courtesy. Look it up.

1. NO. IT. ISNT. I said this. Logically, if it is national, then either Aurdania is that national control center, or that center is elsewhere. If it is Aurdania, then all other control centers serve no purpose, because they could be controlled from Aurdania. If not, then Aurdania's center serves no purpose, because somewhere there would be something that controlled it remotely, without need of a local control center. Besides, I'm not trying to take over EVERY CAMERA installation from Aurdania. I just want Aurdania's.

2. That seems perfectly reasonable. Maybe he should have taken the time to do something like that, though I admit it was a bit of a plot twist to RP taking over CAMERA. But you know what? He didn't. He did not, and so this whining about it is not going to get anyone anywhere. Besides, you realize how much it would cost to replace CAMERA? Even one installation? By the time I leveled Aurdania, his fleet had retreated, and it was unlikely there would be another naval battle. So, me already having naval supremacy beyond challenge, it wouldn't matter that much if I strengthened that supremacy by taking CAMERA.

3. Uhm...if I get a system "free", if I understand you right, then it's hacked. Again, why would Czardas put things in place, other than the initial 'login', as I've called it, that would make it difficult for his own techs to fire CAMERA when it's under his control? Remember, I quoted him as saying that practically nobody could get past CAMERA. So it's unlikely he expects anybody to seize control of it. Thus, in his mind, such layers of defense would just confuse his techs, who would be the only ones who ever had to use it.

4. He hasn't been active the whole time. RL exists too, and it gets priority. And the fact is that he RP'd the location of his fleet in Death to Democracy. So admittedly, he should have posted intercepting you when you said you got there, but the fact remains that he was there first. I don't understand why you're saying that his posted attack is crap, as he was there first and would have been in bombardment position long before this thread even started.

5. You know what? If Czardas is as pissed as you seem to be, he can tell me. It's WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN ANY SIMILAR SITUATION! It's godmodding for him to say that he's consistently pushing me back! How long will it take for his men to get tired? Do you realize that numerically my soldiers could jump on his and crush them to death or suffocate them without using a single damn bullet? Don't bitch to me about courtesy. If he wants to tell me my post is ridiculous, which itself is ridiculous, he can. But if he did, to quote you, it would be "utter rubbish", for reasons I can go on about for a long time, if anyone wants me to.

Nothing personal, but Jesus. This is ridiculous. Did anybody even read my 9-point post?

Czardas, you might want to respond to my officer handing your guy the specs to my new tank and production rights. Even if you don't use it in battle, (I don't know how many of your factories are still working, or if you're even able to produce more tanks at this point) the commander's mission, besides obviously making life hell for CAD, is to give the tank design to the Czardaians.

Actually, considering that Freudotopia was part of the RP before Skinny87 joined (and never mentioned that he had withdrawn his fleet off Port Khufi during the peace conference), I hate to say this, but Skinny is probably the one godmodding, unless he simply neglected to read the posts in Death to Democracy where Freudotopia moved his fleets into position. Either way, I don't think he could have gotten the forces he claims to have through a 1500+ ship fleet, even if Freudotopia wasn't around to RP intercepting them at that particular point in time.

Also: The Voltarum, The Silver Sky, Space Union &c. -- My computer crashed, apparently downloading some kind of virus or spyware (I'm not sure which) and I barely got a spare moment in the library to even log in until now. It'll be repaired probably in a couple of days, but until then, I probably won't be able to write many major posts. I'm not withdrawing from the RP in the slightest; I'll simply be unable to write a good post until it's repaired.

-- Banduria

Godmodding? Go to hell. I gave anyone plenty of time to respond to my ships and convoys moving through the sea and into Port Khufi, and even more time when they were unloading.

I'm on vacation for a single day and look what I miss. :rolleyes:

Anyway:

Regarding the CAMERA systems at Aurdania:

I'll accept that Imperial troops blast their way into the system and kill off all the remaining guards and techs. I won't accept that they then manage to figure out how to use the software within 45 minutes.

CAMERA is a privately funded program designed to launch tons of missiles and torpedos at enemies, while remaining virtually inaccessible to them. Therefore, it's written entirely in an indigenous code (i.e. one designed specifically for the purpose of running the launchers, rather than your average programming languages). One reason why it took so long to get the system back up after it was hit with the virus was because all of the code needed to be re-written to reinstall the hard drive. Therefore, assuming that the Inquisition manages to crack the 1024+ bit encryption on the login and enter the program itself, it'll take them weeks or months to crack the code, and that's assuming that they've dragged in a supercomputer or two. And no, I'm not going to leave a manual conveniently lying around somewhere, or a help menu, for that matter.

Regarding the insane number of troops The Warmaster is throwing at Czarna:

First of all: I don't have 2.6 million front-line combatants. I have 2.6 million troops, total. Of those, maybe 1 million, maybe even fewer are manning the defensive emplacements around Czarna. They are primarily fighting about 1.2 million Imperial infantry (because realistically there's no way 6.7 million troops can fit into that space). Also, I don't see how The Warmaster doesn't seem to have taken any major losses, when I've been consistently dropping bombs and more on troops about as tightly packed together as the atoms inside a solid block of wood. Seriously, Warmaster, I'm still willing to let you take off a million or two troops -- it'll make everyone's lives easier, especially theirs, and those of your people.

Also, I don't really care how obvious it is... Let me roleplay my own troop movements. You can RP mounting your uber offensive, you can RP Sergeant Joe Schmoe thinking that the enemy cannot hold out much longer... you can't RP my troops falling back, or worse, your troops automatically crushing my resistance and walking into Czarna. Remember that there's no realistic way you can get 6.7 million troops to attack my frontline all at once.

Regarding Freudotopia and Skinny87:

I don't particularly care if Freudotopia has a million ships and then some outside Port Khufi. The fact remains that over fifteen or sixteen posts by Skinny87, Freudi failed to intercept any of them. One can't really assume things like that. Besides, Banduria, while you're calling godmodding, perhaps you'd better have a look at your own budget? Seriously... you're spending 56% of your GDP on national defense. How do you manage to maintain enough of an economy to continue supporting such massive fleets, hmm?

hah, i will just erase this, as Czardas really put everyone its their place.

Oh, and Banduria - that combine fleet is about 1 inch from being within weapons range... I think TSS, SU, and I wanted to make sure you were here before we opened fire.

hah, i will just erase this, as Czardas really put everyone its their place.
I pride myself on that ability. :D

I pride myself on that ability. :D

Many thanks for the vote of confidence, Czardas.

I'm on vacation for a single day and look what I miss. :rolleyes:

Anyway:

Regarding the CAMERA systems at Aurdania:

I'll accept that Imperial troops blast their way into the system and kill off all the remaining guards and techs. I won't accept that they then manage to figure out how to use the software within 45 minutes.

CAMERA is a privately funded program designed to launch tons of missiles and torpedos at enemies, while remaining virtually inaccessible to them. Therefore, it's written entirely in an indigenous code (i.e. one designed specifically for the purpose of running the launchers, rather than your average programming languages). One reason why it took so long to get the system back up after it was hit with the virus was because all of the code needed to be re-written to reinstall the hard drive. Therefore, assuming that the Inquisition manages to crack the 1024+ bit encryption on the login and enter the program itself, it'll take them weeks or months to crack the code, and that's assuming that they've dragged in a supercomputer or two. And no, I'm not going to leave a manual conveniently lying around somewhere, or a help menu, for that matter.

Regarding the insane number of troops The Warmaster is throwing at Czarna:

First of all: I don't have 2.6 million front-line combatants. I have 2.6 million troops, total. Of those, maybe 1 million, maybe even fewer are manning the defensive emplacements around Czarna. They are primarily fighting about 1.2 million Imperial infantry (because realistically there's no way 6.7 million troops can fit into that space). Also, I don't see how The Warmaster doesn't seem to have taken any major losses, when I've been consistently dropping bombs and more on troops about as tightly packed together as the atoms inside a solid block of wood. Seriously, Warmaster, I'm still willing to let you take off a million or two troops -- it'll make everyone's lives easier, especially theirs, and those of your people.

Also, I don't really care how obvious it is... Let me roleplay my own troop movements. You can RP mounting your uber offensive, you can RP Sergeant Joe Schmoe thinking that the enemy cannot hold out much longer... you can't RP my troops falling back, or worse, your troops automatically crushing my resistance and walking into Czarna. Remember that there's no realistic way you can get 6.7 million troops to attack my frontline all at once.

Regarding Freudotopia and Skinny87:

I don't particularly care if Freudotopia has a million ships and then some outside Port Khufi. The fact remains that over fifteen or sixteen posts by Skinny87, Freudi failed to intercept any of them. One can't really assume things like that. Besides, Banduria, while you're calling godmodding, perhaps you'd better have a look at your own budget? Seriously... you're spending 56% of your GDP on national defense. How do you manage to maintain enough of an economy to continue supporting such massive fleets, hmm?

Okay. I noticed this after the post I just made in the IC thread.

About getting into CAMERA: Thank you. I was going to argue that they would have died of dehydration, but this makes it easier. That was generous of you, thanks.

Heh. I wasn't going to suggest a help menu. According to my post, I transport in a bunch of supercomputers.

I have been taking losses. In fact, I'm rounding up to get to 6.7 million. You wouldn't have 2.6 million troops by now any more than I would 6.8 million. And if so many of them are not frontliners, I believe my last Battle of Czarna post detailed my aircraft swooping down on your mortar-bearers, machine guns...those types. I had tanks attack them too. And mortar-bearers. So it's unlikely that you have that many left. But I'm not going to take off a million here, a million there. Besides, you've all been arguing all this time that I can't be that packed, because I can't fit on the hill at all. So how am I packed like atoms in a block of wood?

I didn't specify your troop movements. But now that I'm talking to you personally, and not outraged passersby, as it were, fine. I will let you RP your own troop movements.

Why don't we not call godmodding and compromise? Or Freudotopia could keep his position, cause he was kind of there first, no matter what anybody says. My compromise idea is that maybe they could face directly north-south at each other, neither closer to Port Khufi than the other. I don't know if either will accept it, but it's an idea.

All right, all right, all right! Sweet Jesus on a pogo stick! So much arguing! I'm not going to comment on anything regarding CAMERA, because that has brought me nothing but trouble.

Skinny is right. He has had a fleet outside Port Khufi for a good while. As far as I have seen, SU's fleet was going to engage Parthia in the southern region, nowhere near my forces. I really don't know where everyone's fleets are, and who can realistically claim to be attacking each other. Since Czardas all of a sudden has plenty of allies, I'm having trouble keeping track of locations and numbers. So:

Anyone who has criticized my method of attacking Port Khufi because they claim to have fleet between me and the island, please give me a general summary of the size of that fleet, where it is in relation to the island (maybe use one of Czardas' maps as a reference?), and, if you're feeling generous, give a link to somewhere where you specified fleet numbers and locations. Not that I don't trust anyone's naval assertions, I just want to have some sort of reference.

If anyone thinks I'm arrogant, that's tough. I'm just trying to deal with all five of the nations that have become active since the peace conference (a period wherein I was inactive). The fact that you think I'm arrogant has nothing to do with the fact that I'm a damn good RPer when I know what the fuck is going on. Please keep any comments about my or my brother's character to...uh...well actually, just don't comment.

Here's the final word to Skinny and Czardas, who seem to be the only ones who actually have forces that will likely engage me. Praetonia, Voltarum, and everyone else, stop reading here.

Skinny, I obviously did not post anything about intercepting your ships, mainly because I didn't have time. Doesn't matter now. You have a fleet between me and Port Khufi. Please give me some specifics, and rest assured I will play fair in regard to the attack.

Czardas, I know you have been on vacation. When you finish trawling through all sorts of OOC bilge, please TG me or post here regarding the defenses remaining in Port Khufi since I last bombarded it in Death to Democracy.

Thank you for your time.

Alright, I would like to make one thing clear, my fleet is not actually guarding Port Khufi, I was bringing that point up on behalf of WP. My fleets are in the north or south (which may change since Parthia hasn't posted or said anything for over a week). Just wanted to clear that up.

Besides, Banduria, while you're calling godmodding, perhaps you'd better have a look at your own budget? Seriously... you're spending 56% of your GDP on national defense. How do you manage to maintain enough of an economy to continue supporting such massive fleets, hmm?
Bringing in irrelevancies now? :rolleyes: Great. I generally play it as the GDP per capita being twice what NS says it is, with a 50% flat tax (of which the money goes primarily towards maintaining national and international security, i.e. military); the people are then free to spend the rest on buying food and the like. I have no education or law and order budgets (both combined with defence) and spend nothing on state-sponsored religion, social welfare, or social equality.

Although really, this is not the topic.

For everyone else, thanks, I plan to respond ASAP.

Banduria, the sort of per capita GDP of which you write is implausible with the sort of economy you are envisioning. Fifty-eight thousand per capita per annum is far beyond what certain nations (e.g. Pacitalia, Hamptonshire) have achieved with 0% official tax rates and limited budgets. Secondly, whilst law and order might be performed by the military, the budget reflects those differences. I've no problem with your standing military budget, but the rest of your argument is not accurate.

Third, the position of your fleets puts it amidst mine, though something can be worked out there.

Fourth, anything travelling at Mach 2+ at low level would produce a noticeable IR signature, and the narrow-band deception jamming of the missiles would likely have to be pre-programmed into the missiles, with little likelihood of knowing precisely at which frequencies your target's radars (which include airborne radars such as ASW patrol search radars and AEW radars) would be operating. Still, not a bad idea.

OOC: Banduria, where exactly are your weapons headed for? And how are you getting 27 inch and 24 rounds out too 700km?

And where the hell are all these missiles coming from? It's nearly impossible to reload VLS cells underway and I doubt you have the logisitical capacity to carry all of those missiles.

Its possible TSS... the 27"ers anyway, via ERGMs, not sure about the 25s.

By the way, this is an older issue, but it might come up again so I feel I should address it now.

To anyone bombing me in the present or future, either you can agree that my troops are packed like sardines, all 6.7 million of them in close proximity to the Czardaians (though not necessarily all in actualy combat), and thus will take many casualties when bombed, or you can say that I can't fit them all on the hill. One or the other.

The Warmaster: How fast do your graphite missiles move? What is an Abbadon II (I realise its a missile, but what speed, payload etc.)?

By the way, this is an older issue, but it might come up again so I feel I should address it now.

To anyone bombing me in the present or future, either you can agree that my troops are packed like sardines, all 6.7 million of them in close proximity to the Czardaians (though not necessarily all in actualy combat), and thus will take many casualties when bombed, or you can say that I can't fit them all on the hill. One or the other.
You can have fewer forces than 6.7 million and still be crammed in like sardines on the hill -- it all depends on the size of the urban area you are attacking and how narrow your line of advance is. Then you also have to factor in reserves, front-line vs. rear echelon (generally a 1:10 ratio for modern armies), etc. Thus, at best you would likely have 670 thousand combat troops of whom say 250,000 are on the front-line at any given time. That might seem like a small number, especially in comparison to 6.7 million, but your opponents will be under the same restrictions. But of course your (and their) numbers may vary.

The Warmaster: How fast do your graphite missiles move? What is an Abbadon II (I realise its a missile, but what speed, payload etc.)?

The graphite missiles? Jesus...I don't really know. They're a variation of the graphite bomb, but as far as I know, they don't exist presently. They're a submarine-launched missile...however fast they go. The Abaddon is a ship-launched missile whose main characteristic is that it is nearly undetectable to electronics, due to design and stealth coatings like on a B-2 Spirit. It carries high-explosives, though I'm afraid I can't tell you how much or how fast it goes. I never liked the stats thing much, and because I don't know how fast most missiles go, I can't work out a reasonable estimate for this one. Sorry not to be of more help...

Bringing in irrelevancies now? :rolleyes:
It's hardly irrelevant since by your explanation your nation should be like North Korea to the thousandth power and it most reasonably should lead to a massive economic collapse.

According to NS, my economy is Frightening, yet I'm RPing that it's in a recession and thus funds are very limited.

The graphite missiles? Jesus...I don't really know. They're a variation of the graphite bomb, but as far as I know, they don't exist presently. They're a submarine-launched missile...however fast they go. The Abaddon is a ship-launched missile whose main characteristic is that it is nearly undetectable to electronics, due to design and stealth coatings like on a B-2 Spirit. It carries high-explosives, though I'm afraid I can't tell you how much or how fast it goes. I never liked the stats thing much, and because I don't know how fast most missiles go, I can't work out a reasonable estimate for this one. Sorry not to be of more help...
Problem is that speed determines detectability (high speed = high detectability). At high speed (high heat stress), graphite isn't a terribly strong structure, so the missile would not be tremendously manoeuvrable (it is used for submarine launched ballistic missile bodies, such as the Trident, however, and graphite epoxy isn't exactly weak). The stealthiness of the B-2 is at the "cost" of subsonic speed, high fiscal cost, etc. Detectability is also dependent upon a variety of factors.

With regard to possible speeds, you could check a number of sites such as http://www.fas.org/ and the like. Warhead mass and type would be good to know as well for damage determination.

Problem is that speed determines detectability (high speed = high detectability). At high speed (high heat stress), graphite isn't a terribly strong structure, so the missile would not be tremendously manoeuvrable (it is used for submarine launched ballistic missile bodies, such as the Trident, however, and graphite epoxy isn't exactly weak). The stealthiness of the B-2 is at the "cost" of subsonic speed, high fiscal cost, etc. Detectability is also dependent upon a variety of factors.

With regard to possible speeds, you could check a number of sites such as http://www.fas.org/ and the like. Warhead mass and type would be good to know as well for damage determination.

Don't get me wrong, the graphite missiles aren't made of graphite, they contain small graphite threads that settle onto electronics and knock them out. They were used both in the Gulf War and in Serbia (in bomb form) to knock out huge percentages of the power grid.

Ah, now I see what you mean. The problem then is that most ships tend not to have electric cables laying about that graphite strands can bridge across and short out. Against a land target (which is what I assume you're doing), it would probably prove successful against civilian targets and some rear echelon military targets, depending on how well they protect their cabling.

The comments about speed and stealthiness still stand, but high transsonic, low supersonic speeds would be possible with decent stealthiness.

Indeed. Electronics on ships will be encased and rubberised. A powerstation in the Middle East is a rather different prospect to an advanced NS fleet. Also, shooting such a missile down will destroy the fibres. They're made of graphite - they'll burn.

Anyway can all the CAD people give some basic stats on the SDs they're using? Nothing major - just size, armament, Etc.

The "blackout bombs" are primarily used against locations such as transformer stations and powerplants, which means that the fibres would have a very easy time in short circuiting all the cables, which will probably run bare anyways. Against anything that doesn't have a maze of electrical wires above the ground, it will have very limited success.

Also, it is very unlikely that destroying the missile would still result in the fibres flying out, aside from the reason of burning. If the majority of your enemy's missiles are still not shot down before they get into CIWS range, then you have failed the air defence test, and the anti-air systems on your ships are probably not worth a damn anyways.

Well, point taken. I suppose they would burn at that. I will switch it to normal Pandemonium II missiles, if nobody has any objections. And yes, they are typically used on civilian targets in the early stages of an invasion to cause confusion behind the front lines.

Stats for the Vengeance class of Imperial super-dreadnaughts:

40 AA guns, 16 miniguns, 8 torpedo tubes, 16 6-inch guns, 8 24-inch guns, 4 Abaddon launchers, 32 Vanquisher ASuW missiles, 48 Spearhunter missiles, and 4 Colossus railguns; three patrol ships and four attack helicopters.
Length: 1465 ft Speed: 30 knots

(needless to say, the ship carries stores of ammunition; missiles and the like. Firing the 32 Vanquisher missiles from above would not exhaust its capability. And just in case the AA number seems excessive, WWII battleships had over 100.)

No objection here. Well, no OOC objection. I'm sure that my admiral will have something to say about it. ;)

Writing this from SF, CA, w00t.

Anyway: Post coming fairly soon, today or tomorrow, depending on how much time I have to spare here.

In the process of wondering how long the CAMERA hack is going to take, I realized something. It all obviously depends on what the total power of these supercomputers is. However, I don’t want to post a number and have it lambasted by everyone else, so I’m running it by the “war community” here first, WP and CAD alike. So what would you see as realistic for the computers? A total power of 12 quintillion combinations per second? 6 quintillion? Bear in mind the fact that every government computer back in the homeland is generating possible combinations in their spare time as well, and of course there are millions of government computers.

Another question to consider is how much luck there is involved; there was technically a possibility that I might stumble on the right combination straight off. How much lost time are you all willing to attribute to chance? A third of the time? Half? (None is ridiculously unlikely; the odds are just as small that the first combination I tried would be right as the last being right and everything else wrong. So if someone says that it should be the full calculated time, I say why didn’t I get it in the first minute?)

Just something to think about.

- Saying you get it in the first minute is stupid and absurd. Saying you will get it in the last minute is equally so. To be fair, it should be around 50% of the time. But as we don't know what that figure is, it's best just to come up with an amount of time in days - weeks. Maybe a month or two.

- Your computers in your country are going to have to be connected in some way to CAMERA. How are they doing this? Any way that I can think of could easily be intercepted or jammed.

- Are all your government computers really linked together? That sounds rather insecure.

For a complicated system like CAMERA there would probably be several series of passwords and levels of encryption. Another thing to note is that several RL systems permit only a set number of failed attempts to login before they permit no further attempts by individual X for a certain time period. First, one of your computers would have to identify themselves as an individual permitted to login to the system, then login to the system, then find an appropriate level of access that would grant the computer permission to use CAMERA's host of weaponry, all of which would take a great deal of time.