NationStates Jolt Archive

RE: Chemical weapons

Britain states that she will not support a motion to ban these weapons outright and will always reserve the right to use her stockpiles to defend herself against an ABC (Atomic, Biological, Chemical) theat. Though Britain is very interested in limiting the spread of these weapons across the world and in monitoring their useage.

The Brazilian delegate slowly walks up to the podium to deliver the newly forged Brazilian proposition. He reads the following.

“I speak here today on behalf of the Brazilian people.”

He pauses as he takes a deep breath.

“I am sure most of you have been informed of the situation that is currently taking place within Brazil. Whether or not you agree is not relevant today. I come here to state that the military leaders of Brazil do indeed intend to establish a democratic government, and with that said, I come to ask the United Nations of the world to appoint an unbiased council to over see the elections in Brazil. In order to put away with corruption in the Brazilian government, we believe this is a must for the nation of Brazil. Thank you for your time”

The Union's Ambassador to the United Nations, Nicolaas Diedrichs, raises his hand. "South Africa will volunteer observers in any Brazilian election."

The Democratic People's Republic of South Asia, formally requests that a resolution be put forward to confirm that the UN will take part in the process of destabliseing the situation in India.

Reminder

The Union's Ambassador to the United Nations, Nicolaas Diedrichs, raises his hand. "South Africa will volunteer observers in any Brazilian election."

China seconds this. We are more than happy to send observers or democratic advisors.

the US places before the UN Security Council a resolution calling for an arms embargo on the FAS for its use of chemical weapons in Afghanistan. The second part of the resolution calls for the withdrawal of the FAS mandate over Afghanistan and calls for it being handed over to the Central Asian Republic, and the third part of the resolution calls for the withdrawal of the FAS mandate over Persia and for the UN to recognize the indepedence of that nation, except for the Kurdish portions which would join Kurdistan.

the US places before the UN Security Council a resolution calling for an arms embargo on the FAS for its use of chemical weapons in Afghanistan. The second part of the resolution calls for the withdrawal of the FAS mandate over Afghanistan and calls for it being handed over to the Central Asian Republic, and the third part of the resolution calls for the withdrawal of the FAS mandate over Persia and for the UN to recognize the indepedence of that nation, except for the Kurdish portions which would join Kurdistan.

The Government of Yahya Khan responds as following:

You speak of punishing us for the use of chemical weapons, yet we all know the size and scope of the US Chemical Weapons program. If you, nay, any country in the world, was faced with the choice between using chemical weapons or watching their nation be destroyed, the would all chose the former.

You are also under the impression that all of what used to be Persia and what used to be Afghanistan are anti-FAS. That is false. The western areas are pro-FAS, and the Baluchistan area is now under FAS control, after they joined the DPRSA (which wasn't a splinter state, but was a force attempting to overthrow the rightful government of the FAS). Also, some areas that WEREN'T part of these states that have since been absorbed into our nation (what used to be the British province of the NWFP, for example) threw their support behind the un-lawful rebels.

Therefore, this war isn't how the international community classifies it, as a war between three states. Instead, this is a war about who shall control the glorious Federation of Asian States. Before the war, Pakhtunistan, Iran, and the Caspian Republic all had the same rights as any other republic in the FAS, and they will after the war.

Also (OOC: Here comes the favorite tactic of brutal dictators in justifying their actions), if such an international back-lash is felt against the FAS, then you will alienate the people of the FAS, and the radicals we have come so close to defeating in this bloody war will take control, leaving the massive military of the FAS (OOC: This year I added about 1 million troops, to add the about 400,000 I had before, so now my military is large, well-armed, and experienced) in the control of those who would seek to us the chemical weapons against the west.

Secret

Meanwhile, Yahya Khan sends messages to the leaders of all allied nations, stating that while he is a bit surprised that he used tactics that had been used by the allies barely 7 years earlier caused the allies to attack him, he will apologise for the deaths, pay reparations to any country which suffered losses, and destroy the FAS's chemical weapons and cease the program if the American proposal is taken down and no embargo's are placed on India. He also hints that he might allow some elections once the war is over, as well.

China expresses outrage and utter digust at the use of chemical weapons. China issues the following statement to the UN Security Council...

"India, are we so eager to repeat the atrocities of the Third World War? Have you not learned from your painful lesson from similiar weapons employed by Russia aganist your own people?"

Secret
Nicolaas Diedrichs passes a message on to the Indian delegation, saying that South Africa will not vote for any resolution to limit the types of weapons nations may use against legitimate targets. South Africa will also oppose any sanctions placed on India.

Secret

Meanwhile, Yahya Khan sends messages to the leaders of all allied nations, stating that while he is a bit surprised that he used tactics that had been used by the allies barely 7 years earlier caused the allies to attack him, he will apologise for the deaths, pay reparations to any country which suffered losses, and destroy the FAS's chemical weapons and cease the program if the American proposal is taken down and no embargo's are placed on India. He also hints that he might allow some elections once the war is over, as well.

SIC:

Korea's UN Delegate thinks this is fair, and seconds it. However, he notes the West may urge the provision of international observers to assure this is a fair process.

Syria asks the security council to reconsider its decision. While the attacks were horrible, condemning the FAS to be destroyed, left with no economic or military aid, would allow the rebels to take control. Imagine if all trade to the US ended at the height of the civil war. How different would the world be? Adding poverty to war will only make the situation worse for millions. I believe that is something the UN should try to prevent.

How many delegates here come from nations recently freed from communist rule? How many nations represented here fought the communists? How many will let them take control of one of the largest nations on the planet? Perhaps each nation should decide on their answer to the last question. Let nations to decide whether to embargo India.

The FAS thanks Syria and anyone else who is wishing to listen to reason and to explore all the facts, instead of jumping to embargo's without thinking it over.

Secret

Meanwhile, Yahya Khan sends messages to the leaders of all allied nations, stating that while he is a bit surprised that he used tactics that had been used by the allies barely 7 years earlier caused the allies to attack him, he will apologise for the deaths, pay reparations to any country which suffered losses, and destroy the FAS's chemical weapons and cease the program if the American proposal is taken down and no embargo's are placed on India. He also hints that he might allow some elections once the war is over, as well.

Australasia also finds this to be an acceptable course of action.

Secret

Meanwhile, Yahya Khan sends messages to the leaders of all allied nations, stating that while he is a bit surprised that he used tactics that had been used by the allies barely 7 years earlier caused the allies to attack him, he will apologise for the deaths, pay reparations to any country which suffered losses, and destroy the FAS's chemical weapons and cease the program if the American proposal is taken down and no embargo's are placed on India. He also hints that he might allow some elections once the war is over, as well.

The USEA though still suprised and dissapointed upon the use of chemical weapons against the FAS' own citizens, reminds the delegates present that denying India weapons will only extend the fighting and suffering present in the civil war for the people of that country.

However The USEA also reminds the FAS that continued attacks of this type especially against your own people will only make things worse in the long run no matter what the short term strategic objectives achieved are.

OOC: All I need now is for America to take down it's proposal to the U.N., and my chemical weapons program goes POOF.

Britain would never be hypocritical and force another nation to abandon a chemical weapons program when she herself is the world leader in the field. However she will support the Indian proposal that they have so graciously offered to the world.

OOC: All I need now is for America to take down it's proposal to the U.N., and my chemical weapons program goes POOF.

ooc
which doesn't happen, as the Eisenhower Administration doesn't believe the FAS will do what it says it will do.

IC
The US pushes the Resolution to a vote, confident that even if vetoed, there will be domestic consequences for the governments that veto it.

The US UN Ambassador also points out to the FAS that the US only used chemical weapons during the Third World War after chemical weapons were used against it. The FAS can make no such claim in this case.

ooc
which doesn't happen, as the Eisenhower Administration doesn't believe the FAS will do what it says it will do.

IC
The US pushes the Resolution to a vote, confident that even if vetoed, there will be domestic consequences for the governments that veto it.

The US UN Ambassador also points out to the FAS that the US only used chemical weapons during the Third World War after chemical weapons were used against it. The FAS can make no such claim in this case.

OOC: Oh my god, Eisenhower is an idiot. I give you one chance to end this on a good note, but now Yahya Khan's government is going to be undermined from under him. This is exactly the excuse Ayub Khan was looking for; when the west finally withdraws support for Yahya. Say good-bye to a democratically elected leader before 1960.

ooc: Thats cool, say good bye to FAS and Hello to only India?

ic: FNS is now declaring full support for all splinter republics of the former FAS. It can only be assumed that these areas are splintering off because they wish to acheive self-determination, and thus, should be granted.

Why are you subjugating people that do not want to be part of the Federation of Asian States? Worse yet, you bring violence to protesters and chemical death to the freedom fighters. "Your" population does not want this. A government is there to reflect the views of the population.

ooc: How can this possibly be the wests fault? The guy screwed himself. If anything, the people of both the middle east and India would be far happier with Eisenhower for attempting to bring down their now obviously corrupt leader, and I would imagine after hes gone they would immediatly demand an election. I can't see another man just stepping in, not when the population is gaining speed like a boulder down a mountain.

OOC: Oh my god, Eisenhower is an idiot. I give you one chance to end this on a good note, but now Yahya Khan's government is going to be undermined from under him. This is exactly the excuse Ayub Khan was looking for; when the west finally withdraws support for Yahya. Say good-bye to a democratically elected leader before 1960.

Somehow I suspect the Persians and Afghanis are going to be more sympathetic to Eisenhower's view. Plus, an Indian military dictatorship doesn't worry the US much, since the UN destroyed a far more dangerous superpower a little over a decade ago.

OOC: Well, the FAS Civil war is now over. Yahya Khan and his Military Junta were all executed by Mustard Gas, and pretty much every Government-instated governer has gone missing (that's about, oh... 100,000 people, at least). There is pretty much now an orgy of violence against anyone suspected to have been a person who supported the military regime. Pretty much think of it as a giant pogrom, except for this time against low-level military officers (such as Lieutenants) instead of Jews.

the US was far more concerned about setting a precedent concerning the use of chemical weapons then the fate of India. The Eisenhower Administration feels that the example set will make the use of such weapons less likely in the future.

ooc. Will the UIR have a say in the final treaty dealing with the independance of Persia and parts of Aghanistan?

the US was far more concerned about setting a precedent concerning the use of chemical weapons then the fate of India. The Eisenhower Administration feels that the example set will make the use of such weapons less likely in the future.

Well, then you're also not in luck. Because you see, the current government also used chemical weapons (look at the FAS Civil War thread for more details). The last government just made them to try and force some stuff out of the international community and to show the world it was economically powerful enough to have an extensive chemical weapons program. This one, however, will keep the program as a means of staying in power (I.E. "you don't support us, your village will be gassed.")

The Syrian delegate would like to bring forward the fact that the Scandic Union has sent armed fighters, piloted by their own pilots, to fight Syrian, Egyptian, and Rashidi forces in Arabia, killing many in order to keep a despot in power. This has been done without any declaration of war, and has been confirmed after questioning several Scandic pilots shot down.

We would ask the nations here assembled to consider a boycott of Scandic goods. This flagrant breach of international law, attacking foriegn citizens without declaration of war, is surely equal, if not greater, in magnitude than the gas attacks in the FAS.

We would also like to give the following message to the Scandic Union in an open forum for all to hear. If, within three days, all Scandic troops in Saudi Arabia are ordered to withdraw, we will immediately return all Scandic prisoners. If the demands are not accepted, we will be forced to take Scandic actions for what they really are, an attack against a progressive, democratic nation to support a corrupt dictatorship.

The Syrian delegate would like to bring forward the fact that the Scandic Union has sent armed fighters, piloted by their own pilots, to fight Syrian, Egyptian, and Rashidi forces in Arabia, killing many in order to keep a despot in power. This has been done without any declaration of war, and has been confirmed after questioning several Scandic pilots shot down.

We would ask the nations here assembled to consider a boycott of Scandic goods. This flagrant breach of international law, attacking foriegn citizens without declaration of war, is surely equal, if not greater, in magnitude than the gas attacks in the FAS.

We would also like to give the following message to the Scandic Union in an open forum for all to hear. If, within three days, all Scandic troops in Saudi Arabia are ordered to withdraw, we will immediately return all Scandic prisoners. If the demands are not accepted, we will be forced to take Scandic actions for what they really are, an attack against a progressive, democratic nation to support a corrupt dictatorship.

OOC: Oh, the irony. If only the western powers had realised that was what they were doing before the chemical weapons attacks...

OOC: Shhh....besides, they just made the FAS worse, if they don't want to do the same thing to the entire Arab world (plus decide to support the side they were just fighting) then theyll support me.

tagage

OOC: Shhh....besides, they just made the FAS worse, if they don't want to do the same thing to the entire Arab world (plus decide to support the side they were just fighting) then theyll support me.

OOC: Boy, the FAS has about 10x the population of the entire middle east, so saying they "just" made the FAS worse is a bit of an under-statement.

OOC: "just" as in it just happened.

OOC: "just" as in it just happened.

OOC: OOoooh, I see.

The Syrian delegate would like to bring forward the fact that the Scandic Union has sent armed fighters, piloted by their own pilots, to fight Syrian, Egyptian, and Rashidi forces in Arabia, killing many in order to keep a despot in power. This has been done without any declaration of war, and has been confirmed after questioning several Scandic pilots shot down.

Egyptian pilots have been witness to not one but two Scandinavian attacks upon coalition forces. (I'm not even sure the Saudi's have an air force) Egypt agrees to lift it's embargo and all that other stuff if the SU withdraws it's illegal forces.

Well, then you're also not in luck. Because you see, the current government also used chemical weapons (look at the FAS Civil War thread for more details). The last government just made them to try and force some stuff out of the international community and to show the world it was economically powerful enough to have an extensive chemical weapons program. This one, however, will keep the program as a means of staying in power (I.E. "you don't support us, your village will be gassed.")

the US will react harshly if the FAS government uses chemical weapons again

The Syrian delegate would like to bring forward the fact that the Scandic Union has sent armed fighters, piloted by their own pilots, to fight Syrian, Egyptian, and Rashidi forces in Arabia, killing many in order to keep a despot in power. This has been done without any declaration of war, and has been confirmed after questioning several Scandic pilots shot down.

We would ask the nations here assembled to consider a boycott of Scandic goods. This flagrant breach of international law, attacking foriegn citizens without declaration of war, is surely equal, if not greater, in magnitude than the gas attacks in the FAS.

We would also like to give the following message to the Scandic Union in an open forum for all to hear. If, within three days, all Scandic troops in Saudi Arabia are ordered to withdraw, we will immediately return all Scandic prisoners. If the demands are not accepted, we will be forced to take Scandic actions for what they really are, an attack against a progressive, democratic nation to support a corrupt dictatorship.

The Scandic representative points out to the Syrians and Egyptians that not one single Scandic soldier or piece of equipment has crossed the border into Egypt, Syria or any of their allies lands.(Of course this isn't including POW's) No Declaration of War has been issued because the SU does not wish to see a state of war break out between it and Syria or Egypt. All we want is to see to it that our friends are kept safe, and as such no the SU will not attack either Egypt or Syria, but we will defend our allies just as Germany has deployed troops in Syria to defend its allies. We have attacked no one, the combat that has erupted on the Arabian Penisula was brought about by an invasion of Saudi Arabia BY Syria and Egypt.

We will not pull our troops out, Saudi Arabia is an ally and a friend and will be defended. If Egyptian and Syrian troops pull out though we will scale down troop numbers in Arabia and pull out all offensive weaponry, but we will keep a small defensive presence. The SU will give Syria and Egypt each three weeks to pull out of Saudi Arabia and cease all hostilities, Syria and Egypt will have a chance to resolve any issues they have peacefully and diplomaticly. Otherwise the SU will declare war on both Egypt, Syria and any other powers that are violating Saudi Arabias' soveriegnty. If a state of war is to break out between the SU and Syria or Egypt we can no longer promise that Syrian and Egyptian territory will be so safe, we will do what is nessecary to protect our ally and end the war.

Egyptian pilots have been witness to not one but two Scandinavian attacks upon coalition forces. (I'm not even sure the Saudi's have an air force) Egypt agrees to lift it's embargo and all that other stuff if the SU withdraws it's illegal forces.


Not before the illegal forces of Syria and Egypt pull out of Saudi Arabia, and Germany pulls out all its troops from the Middle East, which hapen to be much more numerous the the Scandic presence.

The German delegate remains silent throughout the whole preceedings, but promises support to the US for its plan for FAS chemical weapons.

However, he, without be accusatory, points out to the Scandic Representative that Germany is pulling all but its paratroopers out of the area. He also points out that the German troops were only stationed there to protect the countries of the Middle East from having the Civil War spill over into their countries, and have in no way interfered in the Arabian Civil War, as he calls it.

OOC: Tag

the US will react harshly if the FAS government uses chemical weapons again

They won't use them publicly, of course. That's what Gulags and Death Camps are for.

They won't use them publicly, of course. That's what Gulags and Death Camps are for.
ooc: God forbid anyone catches wind of that... including U2's and such.

ic:

The FNS will stand by the Scandic Union in these matters. From what we have seen there is no purpose but imperialism for the attacks upon Saudi Arabia.

As such, we may move our task force into the Persian Gulf for observation. Should Scandic POW's be treated improperly, an embargo or even a blockade may be in order.

Our troops are "illegal" you say? What, then, would you call your troops, helping keep extremists and terrorists in power for your own ends? We gave King Saud time to withdraw support to the terrorists in the United Islamic Republic, but they denied our ultimatum. If that makes our declaration of war illegal, so is the one at the end of your threat.

The United Islamic Republics issued a death threat against over 35 million people in Egypt and Syria because we did not wish to support them. Instead, we moved to fight the terrorists, as did Australia, Britain, South East Asia, and every other nation that sent troops to fight in the Indian Civil War. Every nation but two. Saudi Arabia and Scandanavia are the only two nations who decided religious extremism was something worth fighting for, that hatred and racism were better than democracy and freedom. Denying freedom of religion to millions is the crime, not moving to fix the problem. Your men have not crossed into our lands, this is true, but surely we cannot be blamed for military success?

Let me assure the FNS that any prisoners of war will be treated with utmost care. Our prison system is among the best in the area, and by percentage, we spend more on the welfare of our people, including well-equipped prisons, than Scandanavia.

We will not pull our troops out, Saudi Arabia is an ally and a friend and will be defended. If Egyptian and Syrian troops pull out though we will scale down troop numbers in Arabia and pull out all offensive weaponry, but we will keep a small defensive presence. The SU will give Syria and Egypt each three weeks to pull out of Saudi Arabia and cease all hostilities, Syria and Egypt will have a chance to resolve any issues they have peacefully and diplomaticly. Otherwise the SU will declare war on both Egypt, Syria and any other powers that are violating Saudi Arabias' soveriegnty. If a state of war is to break out between the SU and Syria or Egypt we can no longer promise that Syrian and Egyptian territory will be so safe, we will do what is nessecary to protect our ally and end the war.

Egypt gave the Saudi Family an ultimatum before the war and are giving them a second chance now. They must step down from power and allow Arabia to become a democracy/republic/socialist republic or whatever the people want. We will even settle for a "constitutional monarchy" where the Saudi family is still "royal" but is there for ceremonial purposes (similiar to the RL UK).

Also, the FNS calling this imperialism is stupidity. Egypt is in no way choosing the Arabian representitives, fixing elections, etc. In fact, there was no hostility between Egypt and Saudi Arabia previous to this. If the FNS fails to support democracy, then we pity your people.

Russia strongly condemns the Scandinavian involvement in the conflict, especially its secretive nature and openly calls it a ‘cowardly act of a cowardly nation.’ Russia also warns of that an escalation of this 'local' conflict could spread across the globe.

Ooc: Do we have rotating membership positions on the Security Council like in RL?
Ooc2: Do we still have a chatzy account/forum?

South Africa remains silent, observing the debates going back and forth between the Scandic Union, Egypt, and Syria.

OOC: Kordo, Chatzy is here (http://www.chatzy.com/684093003041), and we do have a rotating Security Council, though I don't know who the temporary members are at the moment.

Also, the FNS calling this imperialism is stupidity. Egypt is in no way choosing the Arabian representitives, fixing elections, etc. In fact, there was no hostility between Egypt and Saudi Arabia previous to this. If the FNS fails to support democracy, then we pity your people.
Sir, perhaps you do not understand the concept of democracy then. You cannot simply force a country to bend to your will. What you want is not what everyone wants. Forcefully bringing democracy to a country is merely a bastardization of the ideology. We truely feel sorry for the people of Egypt to have such an inept foreign representative of such fine people.

Forcefully keeping democracy from a country though, is far worse a crime. How Scandanavians can elect politicians who preach democracy in their nations but stifle it abroad is beyond me.

Forcefully keeping democracy from a country though, is far worse a crime. How Scandanavians can elect politicians who preach democracy in their nations but stifle it abroad is beyond me.

We have yet to see proof of such force.

They won't use them publicly, of course. That's what Gulags and Death Camps are for.

it will come out, it always does

the United States points out that Scandic Union forces in Saudi Arabia are apparently there on by the invitation of the Saudi government and technically are not under the jurisdiction of the UN.

ooc
annoying as that is, the US is forced to support the charter, and the Scandic Union and Saudi Arabia are well within their rights. Technically, Egypt and Syria are in the wrong under the UN Charter by attacking Saudi Arabia, and the US and Germany are technically in the wrong for trying to overthrow the Saudi government.

At some point, NPC countries like Ireland should be mentioning this (at least the part they know of, the Syrian/Egyptian invasion)

OOC: I assume that the FAS peace treaty is under effect and there are UN peacekeepers in the former DPRSA areas along with British and SCT (If they comitted any)? I would like to see something official about it...

OOC: Britain was more intent of getting the hell out of India after the government it was supporting collapsed, people were getting militant at anyone who supported the old government, casualties began to mount, popular opinion in the world was against intervention and people at home and in the Commonwealth were against it and has no intentions of stationing any forces there independently, though will submit some as part of a blue helmets force.

OOC: A reduced USEA force remains in former DRPSA areas pending information from the provisional government baout wether they are still welcome.

The Russian UN Ambassador Aleksandr Portnoy stood to address the delegates.

"I wish to address this forum on an issue that I believe may become very serious in future conflicts. I believe that it is necessary for the UN to expand its current peacekeeping force that can be used whenever necessary in a variety of locations in order that any conflict that the UN involves itself in sees a rapid response.

I recommend that the current UN force be expanded to no less than three divisions with appropriate air escorts in strength, and that it be made up of troops from the permanent members of the UN Security Council and of whatever nation so wishes to cede control over a portion of their forces for no less than five years. This force, I recommend should be staged in the three major areas of conflict in the world: Asia, Africa and the Middle East in order to assure that the force can carry out its mission as soon as possible. The Russian government, which fully supports this proposal, feels that the current force is not large enough to deal with multiple situations in multiple area’s around the world and that it is not utilized to its full extent.

I urge you to consider this proposal thoughtfully keeping in mind the lives that could be lost if the UN cannot arrive in time. Thank you.”

the UN does have one permament force already, the division sized (essentially 1 parachute brigade, plus 1 light infantry division) force provided by France.. the Legion Estranger.

The US subsidizes this (out of general spending for the Army) and it has not yet been deployed anywhere.

the UN does have one permament force already, the division sized (essentially 1 parachute brigade, plus 1 light infantry division) force provided by France.. the Legion Estranger.

The US subsidizes this (out of general spending for the Army) and it has not yet been deployed anywhere.

Duly noted and edited in.

Does anyone know who the current rotating security council positions belong to?

Australia used to be on it, but I think that it has since rotated away from that.

The Scandic Union will not sit here and debate the legality of what we are doing while our allies are dieing defending their own lands. Our stance has been made clear, in three weeks if Egypt and Syria do not pull out of Saudi Arabia the SU will declare war and will see to it that the ability of either Syria or Egypt to do harm to its neighbors is destroyed. We aree more than willing to see this issue resolved peacefully and if Syria or Egypt agress to a ceasefire and pull out there troops, the SU would be overjoyed to sit down at the table with them. Our stance is clear, we will see to it that Egyptian and Syrian troops are removed from Saudi Arabian lands one way or another.

The Nigerian delegate takes the floor,

"Ladies and Gentlemen, fellow delegates, I come before you no longer as a representative ofthe Dominon of Nigeria. I come now as the delegate of the Federal Republic of Nigeria! I am proud to say that we, with Britain's blessings, have declared independence! A new government has been voted into power. I am their humble servant.

"Again, I would like to thank all of you for allowing Nigeria a voice in the international community. But, I must bring forward one point of contention. As we all well know the European powers have thus far been gracious and indeed friendly in their treatment of all African nations. They have treated us with respect and allowed us to become independent. France was on it's way towards granting it's own colonies independence beforethe tragedy of the Eurasian War over took their country.

"The point i wish to address is the Belgian Congo. THe Belgian governemnt has seemingly made no move to remove their thumb from the people of the Congo and indded, continue to take Congo's resources for their own use in Belgium. I propose that Belgium liberate that country and allow them to have free and democractic elections ther so they may have self rule. If the Blgians will not, then I believe the UN should pass a resolution ganting the Congo it's freedom. Africa for Africans my friends!"

Here, he pauses and looks at the South African delegate, "Be they black or white. We must learn to live in harmony with each other, lest the mistakes of the past be repeated. Allah's blessing upon you all and thank you."

I recommend that the current UN force be expanded to no less than three divisions with appropriate air escorts in strength, and that it be made up of troops from the permanent members of the UN Security Council and of whatever nation so wishes to cede control over a portion of their forces for no less than five years. This force, I recommend should be staged in the three major areas of conflict in the world: Asia, Africa and the Middle East in order to assure that the force can carry out its mission as soon as possible. The Russian government, which fully supports this proposal, feels that the current force is not large enough to deal with multiple situations in multiple area’s around the world and that it is not utilized to its full extent.

The Middle East probably won't be neccessary. After the Saudi's fall, the United Republics will build a Arab League peacekeeping force. Any and all issues in the Middle East will be solved peacefully. Although Egypt realizes that many Arab nations are still victims of dictatorship, this war has shown Egypt that this much blood shed is not needed over politics.

The Scandic Union will not sit here and debate the legality of what we are doing while our allies are dieing defending their own lands. Our stance has been made clear, in three weeks if Egypt and Syria do not pull out of Saudi Arabia the SU will declare war and will see to it that the ability of either Syria or Egypt to do harm to its neighbors is destroyed. We aree more than willing to see this issue resolved peacefully and if Syria or Egypt agress to a ceasefire and pull out there troops, the SU would be overjoyed to sit down at the table with them. Our stance is clear, we will see to it that Egyptian and Syrian troops are removed from Saudi Arabian lands one way or another.

How many times must we tell you? This entire war was avoidable if the Saudi Family wasn't so powerhungry! Egypt does not share the same goals of installing the Rashidi Family to power. We simply ask that the people be given a voice in politics. We have even weakened our ultimatum to the point of a constitutional monarchy! Yet now the SU, a nuclear-wielding super power, threatens to invade a 3rd world nation! How can the UN support this or even allow this to happen?What about the United States, a role-model of democracy, stand by and claim Egypt is in the wrong?

Listen to the UN's charter: "A global association of governments facilitating cooperation in international law, international security, economic development, and social equity." I ask, why is the SU even allowed in the United Nations? It's not cooperating with other nations, has purposely destroyed the balance of power in the Middle East, and is supporting a family that believes they alone are better than an entire civilization! Now let's look at the powerhungry, imperialistic United Republics shall we? We are focused around the idea of peacefully creating a pan-Arab state, despite having less than half the SU's economic power we are building Ethiopia from barely being able to support it's people to becoming a self-dependent, middle-class nation, we purposely avoiding the FAS civil war because we realized the flaws in each side's ideology, we are heavily devoted to democracy and equality, and we plan on restoring peace to the Middle East and keeping it that way. Now who's side will you support?

Nicolaas Diedrichs clears his throat and prepares to speak.

"Addressing first the arguments of the United Republics and the Scandic Union. Both sides present reasonable positions, when they are not yelling at one another like children. My Syrian colleague is indeed correct, though, when he cites the UN charter, for this forum was created in order to provide governments with a peaceful arena of discussion, so that recourse to violence was not necessary. What be the purpose of this body if not to follow such principles?

"Keeping in mind the original principles of the United Nations, I proposed that both the United Republics and the Scandic Union withdraw all military forces from the Saud kingdom, and agree to sit down to negotiations with the Saudi government, monitored by a neutral arbiter, such as the Swiss. All sides may present their goals and hopes, and then these goals may be worked toward peacefully.

"Failing that, perhaps a Security Council resolution is in order?" Diedrichs paused to make eye contact with each the American, British, Colombian, and Chinese delegates.

"Moving on, I would like to congratulate my Nigerian counterpart's homeland on achieving its independence. I hope our nations will be allies and friends in the future." Diedrichs purposefully does not say anything concerning the Belgian Congo.

Egypt will agree to such measures only if all foreign troops withdraw from Arabia and the Saudi Family agrees to attend. I do not see a reason for the SU to be at the meeting, as Egypt will represent democracy and the Saudi Family will represent dictatorship. Egyptian troops will make no further advances in Arabia and will withdraw as soon as evidence showing foreign troops withdrawing is given.

"The point i wish to address is the Belgian Congo. THe Belgian governemnt has seemingly made no move to remove their thumb from the people of the Congo and indded, continue to take Congo's resources for their own use in Belgium. I propose that Belgium liberate that country and allow them to have free and democractic elections ther so they may have self rule. If the Blgians will not, then I believe the UN should pass a resolution ganting the Congo it's freedom. Africa for Africans my friends!"

Here, he pauses and looks at the South African delegate, "Be they black or white. We must learn to live in harmony with each other, lest the mistakes of the past be repeated. Allah's blessing upon you all and thank you."

The Belgian delegate listens to the translation, then shakes his head.

"The Belgian government is, not, at this time considerign granting the belgian Congo it's independence, nor will it for the foreseeable future. It is the opinion of His Majesty's government in Brussels that the people of the Congo are not yet ready for independent rule."

Once again the Nigerian delegate speaks, "I thank my South African counter-part for his kind words. Allah willing, we will enjoy a long period of friendship, peace and prosperity."

He frowns, "As to the Middle Eastern question...I must agree with my esteemed Syrian colleague, as well as the South African delegate. War is not the answer, but some would have it be. I second Mr. Diedrichs proposal."

"As for the Belgian delegate...Why are you not yet ready to give up rule of the Congo? Many other nations in Africa have proven that they are ready for self-rule. Why do you not join with the other European powers and liberate the people of Africa?"

There is again, a pause. Then the belgian delgate again shakes his head.

"It is His Majesty's Government's position that the people of the Congo are not yet ready for self rule. This is our government's position and it will not be changing in the near future. Perhaps in another decade."

The German Delegate stands.

"It seems the Scandic People have not learned the lesson of the Eurasian War. However, if they, like the Germans, Slavs, Chinese, Anglos, Frenchmen, and Latins, need a lesson, Germany will be more than willing to protect its allies from the wrath of Scandic pride.

"As of now, 5 Landswehr Garrisons are being deployed into their infantry divisions. It is hoped that they will not be needed for use."

OOC: The Garrisons in Breslau, Karlsruhe, Bremen, Hanover, and Vienna are being mobilized into their respective 10 infantry divisions. 5 will be sent to Hamburg, while another 5 will be sent to Stettin.

The Belgian delegate nods to the German delegate.

"Belgium is willing to assist Germany in order to ensure world peace."

Britain supports the South African delegate in urging for peace but notes taht Britain will not stand idly by if her allies are attacked in an unprovoked manner.

Britain also states that she has a capable military which does not want war but will not neglect their duties to the defence of the realm and it's allies. Hints are dropped in regards to the ownership of Hydrogen bombs and VX gas, though nothing is stated explicitly.

Britain supports a proposed meeting of teh Security Council to discuss the matter.

The French Delegate urges the Belgians to take measures in the Congo, clearly the matter can prove to get unruely if certain measures are taken to improve the quality of life to the people in those areas.

To lessen the strain this may put on the Belgian economy, the French government offers 2.75 points grant (1953) to the Belgian government.

The Belgian Government will accept this grant.

The United States urges an immediate stand down of Scandic Union and German military forces, a continued cease fire between Saudi and Egyptian/Syrian forces and for those forces to pull back to their own territories, and for the South African suggestion regarding talks be undertaken at once.

The US government recognizes the right of Saudi Arabia to invite an allied state (in this case the Scandic Union) to help defend it, and rejects the Syrian and Egyptian arguements against that as an infringement of Saudi soveriegnity that violates the UN Charter regarding such matters. Although sympathetic to the Syrian and Egyptian concern, the US is forced to recognize that Saudi Arabia and the Scandic Union are within their rights.

The US also makes clear that any nation that uses weapons of mass destruction except in clear cases of self defense of themselves or an ally, be they nuclear, atomic, chemical or biological weapons, is in clear violation of the UN Charter, the UN treaty regarding those weapons, and a threat to world and also US security, and in any such instance, the United States will take any and all measures necessary to end such a threat.

The United States recognizes self defense to be when a nation or its ally is attacked by such weapons, or there is a clear and imminent danger that such weapons will be used against that nation or its ally. The US is willing to consider self defense to include situations where all other measures have been attempted to bring about a peaceful settlement of a conflict, and the nation involved is losing the war and faces military conquest.

In short, the US makes clear that the use of nuclear, atomic, chemical and biological weapons are a clear danger to the world at large, and such use had better have extreme justification.

Parthini']The German Delegate stands.

"It seems the Scandic People have not learned the lesson of the Eurasian War. However, if they, like the Germans, Slavs, Chinese, Anglos, Frenchmen, and Latins, need a lesson, Germany will be more than willing to protect its allies from the wrath of Scandic pride.

"As of now, 5 Landswehr Garrisons are being deployed into their infantry divisions. It is hoped that they will not be needed for use."

OOC: The Garrisons in Breslau, Karlsruhe, Bremen, Hanover, and Vienna are being mobilized into their respective 10 infantry divisions. 5 will be sent to Hamburg, while another 5 will be sent to Stettin.

So how many wars have the Germans started this century? Your record is not exactly flawless.

So how many wars have the Germans started this century? Your record is not exactly flawless.

One, I believe. The Venzeulan Affair but I'm not sure whether Germany or Austria-Hungary started Great War 1 (my memory's a little foggy). WW-2 was started by the Union (Moscow), and WW-3 was set off by Japan and the Union.

1 - WW1 Germany entered for no exceptional reason and killed thousands.
2 - Venezuela
3 - WW2 Germany was part of the Union. If they didn't want to start the war they could have influenced it as such.
4 - WW3 ditto.

Germany does not have a very good track record of being a good guy here.

1 - WW1 Germany entered for no exceptional reason and killed thousands.
2 - Venezuela
3 - WW2 Germany was part of the Union. If they didn't want to start the war they could have influenced it as such.
4 - WW3 ditto.

Germany does not have a very good track record of being a good guy here.

Indeed. I find it ironic that the country that has, due to it's actions, lead to the deaths of over 150 million people has suddenly become quite the pacifist.

The Nigerian delegate continues to press his arguement, "The French embarked on an ambitious rail project to help the people of West Africa. The British and Americans modernized my own country and many others. Yet, the Belgians have done almost nothing to help raise the living standards of the Congo. In fact, they continue to exploit those people and take their natural resources for Belgium's own use. This is a travesty. We might as well be in 1853."

Indeed. I find it ironic that the country that has, due to it's actions, lead to the deaths of over 150 million people has suddenly become quite the pacifist.

...Did you just call me a pacifist?

WWI I was supporting Russia and expanding my imperial ambitions, just like everyone else. The Venezuelan thing was them not paying up, and Britian was involved. WWII, Russia declared war because the US took the Canary Islands. WWIII, we got attacked in the North Sea.

And Germany had left the Union by the time nukes were being launched. Get your facts straight.

Indeed. I find it ironic that the country that has, due to it's actions, lead to the deaths of over 150 million people has suddenly become quite the pacifist.
Equally ironic is a country that turned chemical weapons on those that disagreed with it chastising another nation.

Equally ironic is a country that turned chemical weapons on those that disagreed with it chastising another nation.

Wait...huh? Are you refering to me or him? Or the United States? Or Russia?

and this coming from a nation that used chemical weapons.......sheee........

Hey, I've always been a violent fellow, eh? India hasn't been pacifist since the 1930's, when we were trying to avoid war. Since then, it's been "Build the army, absorb neighboring nations, build the economy, and keep a bunch of buffer states". The Civil War pretty much ruined points 3 and 4, Nepal, Bhutan, and Burma joining the Commonwealth ruined 2, so that leaves point 1.

The Nigerian delegate continues to press his arguement, "The French embarked on an ambitious rail project to help the people of West Africa. The British modernized my own country and many others. Yet, the Belgians have done almost nothing to help raise the living standards of the Congo. In fact, they continue to exploit those people and take their natural resources for Belgium's own use. This is a travesty. We might as well be in 1853."

The US indicates its support for the Nigerian point

ooc
although miffed that Nigeria didn't mention that the US basically built both of its production centers and provided it with an airline.. grumble

The US indicates its support for the Nigerian point

ooc
although miffed that Nigeria didn't mention that the US basically built both of its production centers and provided it with an airline.. grumble

OOC: I didn't know that, sorry. =p I'll go edit... >>

IC:

The Nigerian delegate thanks the US for it's support.

Parthini']...Did you just call me a pacifist?

WWI I was supporting Russia and expanding my imperial ambitions, just like everyone else. The Venezuelan thing was them not paying up, and Britian was involved. WWII, Russia declared war because the US took the Canary Islands. WWIII, we got attacked in the North Sea.

And Germany had left the Union by the time nukes were being launched. Get your facts straight.

In the past eighty years the peace loving Germans have invaded Scandinavia three times, each time killing thousands with the most recent invasion causing the deaths of tens of thousands and an extended occupation of Denmark. In the past eighty years, in the Scandic Union entire history in fact, the Scandic Union has never once started a war, get your facts straight.

In the past eighty years the peace loving Germans have invaded Scandinavia three times, each time killing thousands with the most recent invasion causing the deaths of tens of thousands and an extended occupation of Denmark. In the past eighty years, in the Scandic Union entire history in fact, the Scandic Union has never once started a war, get your facts straight.

Two points:

1. I never said I was peaceloving... Peace is boring...

2. I never said you started a war.

I digress.

BTW, did the SU respond to my mobilization? Also, I'm assuming that Poland and the Ukraine, as allies of the SU, are pushing for support of the SU and doing stuff themselves?

Lastly, is there a way I can change to National Effort this year, and redo my build?

ooc: Parthini you know this is all IC righttt?

ic: The Federation of South American Nations would like to know if the SU is willing to renew its Mutual Defense Pact with the FNS.

OOC: Erm..

IC: The German Delegate swiftly stands and glares at the many fools surrounding him.

"You foolish Indian! You put the blame for the death of nearly 50 million of your own people on Germany who had, previous to the annihilation of millions, left the Pact and was under control by the British Empire.

"Damned Scandics! You put the blame for every war on Germany? While I could follow your example and spout lies about how you started many of these wars, I will take the high road and say that all of us here are responsible in some way for the death of every human."

He laughed.

"Indeed, it could have been so that Germany remained allied to Austria Hungary and Italy, and fought a destructive war against France, Russia, Britain and perhaps even America! Indeed, someone who is a simple architect could have declared himself dictator of Germany and conquered the world! Indeed, even Communism could still be a prevalent idea in the world! However, we are not here to speculate. We are here to debate. And I say we should stop throwing the blame of us all on one nation and take responsibility for ourselves! That, my colleagues, is exactly what the Syrians and Egyptians are doing. They are cleansing the Middle East of radicalism and making the Middle East safe for every man, woman and child to live their lives."

"Now, if you wish to keep them from doing so, and wish to support the Scandics in their propping up of vicious dictators and violent despots, then continue on and watch as your nations are slowly torn apart by a butterfly effect. If, however, you love freedom to worship, freedom to dress how you like, freedom to speak, protest, and to live your life in a way that harms no other man, then you will support Egypt and Syria instead of condemning them. That is what us Freedom-loving Germans are doing."

Parthini']OOC: Erm..

IC: The German Delegate swiftly stands and glares at the many fools surrounding him.

"You foolish Indian! You put the blame for the death of nearly 50 million of your own people on Germany who had, previous to the annihilation of millions, left the Pact and was under control by the British Empire.

"Damned Scandics! You put the blame for every war on Germany? While I could follow your example and spout lies about how you started many of these wars, I will take the high road and say that all of us here are responsible in some way for the death of every human."

He laughed.

"Indeed, it could have been so that Germany remained allied to Austria Hungary and Italy, and fought a destructive war against France, Russia, Britain and perhaps even America! Indeed, someone who is a simple architect could have declared himself dictator of Germany and conquered the world! Indeed, even Communism could still be a prevalent idea in the world! However, we are not here to speculate. We are here to debate. And I say we should stop throwing the blame of us all on one nation and take responsibility for ourselves! That, my colleagues, is exactly what the Syrians and Egyptians are doing. They are cleansing the Middle East of radicalism and making the Middle East safe for every man, woman and child to live their lives."

"Now, if you wish to keep them from doing so, and wish to support the Scandics in their propping up of vicious dictators and violent despots, then continue on and watch as your nations are slowly torn apart by a butterfly effect. If, however, you love freedom to worship, freedom to dress how you like, freedom to speak, protest, and to live your life in a way that harms no other man, then you will support Egypt and Syria instead of condemning them. That is what us Freedom-loving Germans are doing."

The Chinese delegate throws the German a glance and scribbled a small note, and had it passed to the German delegate through a courtier so that the other national delegates could not spy or intercept the communique.

The message simply read...

Well put, friend. China applauds German efforts to support democracy in the Middle East.

Parthini']OOC: Erm..

IC: The German Delegate swiftly stands and glares at the many fools surrounding him.

"You foolish Indian! You put the blame for the death of nearly 50 million of your own people on Germany who had, previous to the annihilation of millions, left the Pact and was under control by the British Empire.

"Damned Scandics! You put the blame for every war on Germany? While I could follow your example and spout lies about how you started many of these wars, I will take the high road and say that all of us here are responsible in some way for the death of every human."

He laughed.

"Indeed, it could have been so that Germany remained allied to Austria Hungary and Italy, and fought a destructive war against France, Russia, Britain and perhaps even America! Indeed, someone who is a simple architect could have declared himself dictator of Germany and conquered the world! Indeed, even Communism could still be a prevalent idea in the world! However, we are not here to speculate. We are here to debate. And I say we should stop throwing the blame of us all on one nation and take responsibility for ourselves! That, my colleagues, is exactly what the Syrians and Egyptians are doing. They are cleansing the Middle East of radicalism and making the Middle East safe for every man, woman and child to live their lives."

"Now, if you wish to keep them from doing so, and wish to support the Scandics in their propping up of vicious dictators and violent despots, then continue on and watch as your nations are slowly torn apart by a butterfly effect. If, however, you love freedom to worship, freedom to dress how you like, freedom to speak, protest, and to live your life in a way that harms no other man, then you will support Egypt and Syria instead of condemning them. That is what us Freedom-loving Germans are doing."

The Nigerian representative stands and applauds for a few moments, "The nation of Nigeria gives it's full support to Germany and it's stance on this issue. Freedom for all peoples should be our watchword and our objective. Do not attempt to deny those in the Middle East, who are just know beginning to liberate themselves, the chance for freedom and democracy!"

Parthini']Two points:

1. I never said I was peaceloving... Peace is boring...

2. I never said you started a war.

I digress.

BTW, did the SU respond to my mobilization? Also, I'm assuming that Poland and the Ukraine, as allies of the SU, are pushing for support of the SU and doing stuff themselves?

Lastly, is there a way I can change to National Effort this year, and redo my build?

I would suggest having Sharina handle Ukraine and Poland for now (as he isn't involved in the situation)... and my suggestion is that both nations would hold off mobilization just yet as its not clear that this will explode.

The Belgian delegate does not applaud, but gives a nod of approval to the German delegate.

Parthini']OOC: Erm..

IC: The German Delegate swiftly stands and glares at the many fools surrounding him.

"You foolish Indian! You put the blame for the death of nearly 50 million of your own people on Germany who had, previous to the annihilation of millions, left the Pact and was under control by the British Empire.

"Damned Scandics! You put the blame for every war on Germany? While I could follow your example and spout lies about how you started many of these wars, I will take the high road and say that all of us here are responsible in some way for the death of every human."

He laughed.

"Indeed, it could have been so that Germany remained allied to Austria Hungary and Italy, and fought a destructive war against France, Russia, Britain and perhaps even America! Indeed, someone who is a simple architect could have declared himself dictator of Germany and conquered the world! Indeed, even Communism could still be a prevalent idea in the world! However, we are not here to speculate. We are here to debate. And I say we should stop throwing the blame of us all on one nation and take responsibility for ourselves! That, my colleagues, is exactly what the Syrians and Egyptians are doing. They are cleansing the Middle East of radicalism and making the Middle East safe for every man, woman and child to live their lives."

"Now, if you wish to keep them from doing so, and wish to support the Scandics in their propping up of vicious dictators and violent despots, then continue on and watch as your nations are slowly torn apart by a butterfly effect. If, however, you love freedom to worship, freedom to dress how you like, freedom to speak, protest, and to live your life in a way that harms no other man, then you will support Egypt and Syria instead of condemning them. That is what us Freedom-loving Germans are doing."

The Brazilian Delegate stands and applauds the German.
He is obviously pleased with the German's Speech.

Parthini']
"Indeed, it could have been so that Germany remained allied to Austria Hungary and Italy, and fought a destructive war against France, Russia, Britain and perhaps even America! Indeed, someone who is a simple architect could have declared himself dictator of Germany and conquered the world! Indeed, even Communism could still be a prevalent idea in the world! However, we are not here to speculate. We are here to debate."

ooc: NICE

IC: The Australian delegate attempts to remain as passive as possible. Though his nation's sympathies are reflexively toward England and its allies, he is under the strictest orders from Canberra to not act without further specific instruction.

The Russian delegate openly applaudes the German delegate for his honest and open speech.

The British delegate also makes known his pleasure at hearing frank and open speech within the UN discussion chamber. He states that it has been a long time since many delegates stated their own feelings and instead covered them in a shroud of secrecy.

On a more serious note he urges peace in the Middle East and Europe. Proposing that a cease-fire is declared in Saudi Arabia, especially concerning the recent deaths of thousands of Saudis, Egyptians, Syrians and Scandics in the vicious fighting around Ha'il. He urges an end to such senseless bloodshed and that a diplomatic conference be established in the area.

Parthini']Two points:

1. I never said I was peaceloving... Peace is boring...

2. I never said you started a war.

I digress.

BTW, did the SU respond to my mobilization? Also, I'm assuming that Poland and the Ukraine, as allies of the SU, are pushing for support of the SU and doing stuff themselves?

Lastly, is there a way I can change to National Effort this year, and redo my build?

OOC: No not yet, we don't want war in Europe and were still confident theres no need for it. I doubt Poland and the Ukraine have yet either.

The Federation of South American Nations would like to know if the SU is willing to renew its Mutual Defense Pact with the FNS.

IC: The SU will of course renew the treaty.

The South African delegate applauds the German speech, and waits for the Scandic response before making any points of his own.

The British delegate also makes known his pleasure at hearing frank and open speech within the UN discussion chamber. He states that it has been a long time since many delegates stated their own feelings and instead covered them in a shroud of secrecy.

On a more serious note he urges peace in the Middle East and Europe. Proposing that a cease-fire is declared in Saudi Arabia, especially concerning the recent deaths of thousands of Saudis, Egyptians, Syrians and Scandics in the vicious fighting around Ha'il. He urges an end to such senseless bloodshed and that a diplomatic conference be established in the area.
We will agree to a meeting, preferrably in a 3rd party nation. However, we believe all military units should cease movement immediately. Any partisan response on withdrawing troops from either side could lead to a breakdown in talks, and complete withdrawl could, if the talks fail, lead to the violence spreading into Jordan.

We will agree to a meeting, preferrably in a 3rd party nation. However, we believe all military units should cease movement immediately. Any partisan response on withdrawing troops from either side could lead to a breakdown in talks, and complete withdrawl could, if the talks fail, lead to the violence spreading into Jordan.

China offers to host the talks as it has remained neutral throughout the entire Arabian War and the FAS Civil War.

Very well then, Crown Prince Amin, currently commanding the Syrian Army troops at Ha'il, will go to the conference in Bejing (I'd presume, although Taipei and Hong Kong would work as well...or is Hong Kong still British?)

The commanding officer of the Air Force in Ha'il will take over duties as Battlefront Commander.

Parthini']OOC: Erm..

IC: The German Delegate swiftly stands and glares at the many fools surrounding him.

"You foolish Indian! You put the blame for the death of nearly 50 million of your own people on Germany who had, previous to the annihilation of millions, left the Pact and was under control by the British Empire.

OOC: That comment was OOC, btw. India made no official statements...

IC:

"You expect me to think that Germany played no role in the creation of Nuclear and Chemical weapons? Germany was just the stupid follower following the leader? I think not. Germans played a key role in the Pact War effort. Try not to shift the blame to the Russians, coward, and accept what your nation did. Even my nation admitted it used chemical weapons. Why cannot your nation be brave enough to take responsibility for its past actions?"

OOC: That comment was OOC, btw. India made no official statements...

IC:

"You expect me to think that Germany played no role in the creation of Nuclear and Chemical weapons? Germany was just the stupid follower following the leader? I think not. Germans played a key role in the Pact War effort. Try not to shift the blame to the Russians, coward, and accept what your nation did. Even my nation admitted it used chemical weapons. Why cannot your nation be brave enough to take responsibility for its past actions?"

"I believe the honorable Indian delegate should remember that at the time Germany was simply a province or state in the Soviet Union. Now, gentlemen, are we going to continue this pointless bickering or are we going to attempt to broker a ceasefire and permanent peace?"

"I believe the honorable Indian delegate should remember that at the time Germany was simply a province or state in the Soviet Union. Now, gentlemen, are we going to continue this pointless bickering or are we going to attempt to broker a ceasefire and permanent peace?"

"The Soviet Union was made up of Independent Republics, much like the Modern Day FAS. Each Republic has it's say in things, and if Germany had not agree'd with the war, they could have said so and their influence would have probably avoided it. However, they supported the war, and because of their war-mongering, 50 million of my people died."

"The Soviet Union was made up of Independent Republics, much like the Modern Day FAS. Each Republic has it's say in things, and if Germany had not agree'd with the war, they could have said so and their influence would have probably avoided it. However, they supported the war, and because of their war-mongering, 50 million of my people died."

"And your governemnt then proceeded to kill thousands more with your own chemical weapons. I hope the irony is not lost on you. I personally find your hypocrisy appalling. You blame Germany for the deaths of your people and the development of the weapons which you then used against your own people. Take responsibility for your own actions and do not attempt to blame the chemical weapons use on Germany."

"And while Germany was in a large part responsible for the Third World War, I think that all the major players share some measure of guilt for allowing it to spiral out of control. Regardless, that is the past and we cannot change it now. Let us look to the future and hope for more peaceful times."

"And your governemnt then proceeded to kill thousands more with your own chemical weapons. I hope the irony is not lost on you. I personally find your hypocrisy appalling. You blame Germany for the deaths of your people and the development of the weapons which you then used against your own people. Take responsibility for your own actions and do not attempt to blame the chemical weapons use on Germany."

"And while Germany was in a large part responsible for the Third World War, I think that all the major players share some measure of guilt for allowing it to spiral out of control. Regardless, that is the past and we cannot change it now. Let us look to the future and hope for more peaceful times."

"Point one; the chemical weapons attack appalled all of the FAS, and the madman who ordered their use was killed (ironically, using the same chemicals he helped to create). During the Great War, the Union used Chemical, Biological, and Nuclear weapons far beyond our current capability, and many of these were created with the influence of German scientists. We accept that our former ruler used chemical weapons in order to further his evil purposes, which included cementing his presidency-for-life and gaining the support of the west for his own devious purposes. Unlike Germany, we accept that our nation has made grevious mistakes in the past."

In the past eighty years the peace loving Germans have invaded Scandinavia three times, each time killing thousands with the most recent invasion causing the deaths of tens of thousands and an extended occupation of Denmark. In the past eighty years, in the Scandic Union entire history in fact, the Scandic Union has never once started a war, get your facts straight.

OOC: Parthini that part was IC

IC: This issue has been twisted around by Germany and her allies. Saudi Arabia DID NOT start this war, the Scandic Union DID not start this war, this war began when Egypt, Syria and Western Arabia,with heavy, heavy German support and backing, invaded without direct provocation Saudi Arabia, who happens to be an ally. Saudi Arabia asked for Scandic help and as an ally we defended Saudi Arabia, we defended Saudi Arabia and we did no more.

We never once crossed the order or even attempted to strike at Egypt, Syria or Western Arabia, even though we have the ability to. We have the ability to expand this war to Egypt and Syria but we haven't, we have stuck to our original goal, which was the simple defense of Saudi Arabia. All we care about is the defense of our ally, as allies we pledged to help and support Saudi Arabia and them us and now they need our help. Would Germany abandon Syria if Turkey invaded it and the world was on Turkeys side? Would Germany abandon Britian if Britian was in a tight spot?

We do not care what the world thinks about what were doing because to pull out of Saudi Arabia and abandon them would be shamefull, it would be a black mark on all of Scandinavia. No, we will not abandon our allies no matter what the world thinks because when we became allies we gave them our pledge to help them when they needed it and we will fullfill that pledge. We will do everything in our power not to see this war expand and Scandinavia will not be the first nation to use nuclear or chemical weapons but we will use whatever conventional means are nessecary to see to it that Saudi Arabian territory is respected, and that the Saudi nation is safe. We have repeatedly said we would welcome peace, we yearn for peace, but a peace were Surian or Egyptian or Rashidi troops are allowed to violate and sqaut on Saudi land and intrude on Saudi soveriegnty is something we will not stand for. All we ask is for Egypt and Syria to pull out of Saudi Arabia, go home and end this war before thousands die needlessly.

If you want peace, then join us in Bejing. We have given the Saudis, and yourselves, many, many chances to avoid war. First, when the Saudis gave support to a terrorist regime, we asked them to stop. When they refused, we gave them an ultimatum, to stop or there would be consequences, both the "illegal" declaration of war by us, and, ironically, the same message we were sent by your government. When we asked the Saudis to begin introducing democratic reforms, they could have ended it there. When we reduced the scale of our requests, again we were denied. Your nation, when we learned of its involvement, was asked to try and stop the situation. We recieved no response. So, we will "squat" on Saudi lands until the Scandics or the Saudis try to offer a compromise.

EDIT: A note is passed to the American ambassador reading:
America could never have become a democracy without French intervention, would America be willing to help another nation acheive the same goal? (ooc: they dont know about the CIA support)

A similar note is passed to the French:
Prussia, Austria, England, and Spain all opposed French democracy in 1789, and had a serious chance of ending the revolution then and there. Will the French let Scandanavia take the Austrian role now?

We do not care what the world thinks about what were doing because to pull out of Saudi Arabia and abandon them would be shamefull, it would be a black mark on all of Scandinavia.

For some odd reason, Egypt does not feel that it would be shameful to withdraw support from a power-hungry dictator in favor of democracy, by hey, that's just us.

We never once crossed the order or even attempted to strike at Egypt, Syria or Western Arabia

Attempted? You threatened to invade us yesterday, did you not? And why? Because the Saudi Family refused to given the people a voice in their government.

We have repeatedly said we would welcome peace, we yearn for peace,

And yet you reject peace proposals? The Saudi Family has been given MULTIPLE chances to end the war, now even without losing control over the nation. Yet the answer? They refuse and continue to attack our troops and desolate their own populace even after a temporary cease-fire has been called for peace talks!

Attempted? You threatened to invade us yesterday, did you not? And why? Because the Saudi Family refused to given the people a voice in their government.


Do not twist our words around, we never once threatened to invade Egypt, we did threaten to declare war but never did we threaten an invasion of Egypt or Syria.


They refuse and continue to attack our troops


Troops that are occupieing a corner of their land, including a major city.

This is the first time you have offered the Scandic Union peace, so do not claim to the world that we rejected multiple offers. We will attend this conference and will accept a ceasefire, but if either Egypt or Syria attempt to use this ceasefire to strengthen their positions in Ha'il or elsewere in Saudi Arabia the ceasefire will be off.

ooc
did I miss something? How did Western Arabia get sucked into the war.. its an Omani client state, and Oman isn't involved (as it chose not to act when the US covertly told it that the Saudis wouldn't be missed if Oman annexed eastern Arabia).

OOC: Germany supplied Western Arabia with two figher units and trained the pilots plus a few infantry corps which Western Arabia promptly sent over the border, they've since been destroyed.

Western Arabia is the Rashidi's correct?

This is the first time you have offered the Scandic Union peace, so do not claim to the world that we rejected multiple offers. We will attend this conference and will accept a ceasefire, but if either Egypt or Syria attempt to use this ceasefire to strengthen their positions in Ha'il or elsewere in Saudi Arabia the ceasefire will be off.

The Saudi Family has been given MULTIPLE chances to end the war, now even without losing control over the nation.

This is the first time you have offered the Scandic Union peace, so do not claim to the world that we rejected multiple offers. We will attend this conference and will accept a ceasefire, but if either Egypt or Syria attempt to use this ceasefire to strengthen their positions in Ha'il or elsewere in Saudi Arabia the ceasefire will be off.

To prevent the Saudi Family continuing their attacking without regards to peace offerings as they've continued to do, Egyptian troops have already been ordered to temporarily withdraw the nation.

To prevent the Saudi Family continuing their attacking without regards to peace offerings as they've continued to do, Egyptian troops have already been ordered to temporarily withdraw the nation.

And to prevent the continued occupation and invasion of Saudi Arabia by Egyptian troops.

The Egyptian invasion was halted 6 months ago when we first started asking for a peace conference. All fighting since then has been by Saudi/SU forces.

OOC: Germany supplied Western Arabia with two figher units and trained the pilots plus a few infantry corps which Western Arabia promptly sent over the border, they've since been destroyed.

Western Arabia is the Rashidi's correct?

Hashimite... the Rashidis are operating out of Syria as far as I can tell. Jordan and Western Arabia are both neutral although simple geography means that Syrian/Egyptian forces have to be coming in from either Jordan or what in our timeline is known as western Iraq (which I guess Syria could easily have annexed during the Third Great War).

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/asia/saudi-arabia/saudi-arabia-map.gif

Hashimite... the Rashidis are operating out of Syria as far as I can tell. Jordan and Western Arabia are both neutral although simple geography means that Syrian/Egyptian forces have to be coming in from either Jordan or what in our timeline is known as western Iraq (which I guess Syria could easily have annexed during the Third Great War).

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/asia/saudi-arabia/saudi-arabia-map.gif


OOC: Meh, I thought the Rashidi's were from WA. So those fighters and the infantry corps that got destroyed were Syrian?


Also, since its Wednesday and so technically the summer of 1952, would this conference be happening in the summer of 52? Because the war thread is a bit behind the actual time. We could split the differemce, say this happens in the spring like Aprilish?

Hashimite... the Rashidis are operating out of Syria as far as I can tell. Jordan and Western Arabia are both neutral although simple geography means that Syrian/Egyptian forces have to be coming in from either Jordan or what in our timeline is known as western Iraq (which I guess Syria could easily have annexed during the Third Great War).

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/asia/saudi-arabia/saudi-arabia-map.gif

eek. If part of Iraq got annexed I will need to change the maps. I just assumed troops were flooding through jordan.

OOC:

China will be hosting the official peace conference for the whole Middle East conflict as China is and has been neutral not only in the Arabian situation but the FAS civil war as well.

So far, Syria has declared that it will attend. Any other takers?

"Point one; the chemical weapons attack appalled all of the FAS, and the madman who ordered their use was killed (ironically, using the same chemicals he helped to create). During the Great War, the Union used Chemical, Biological, and Nuclear weapons far beyond our current capability, and many of these were created with the influence of German scientists. We accept that our former ruler used chemical weapons in order to further his evil purposes, which included cementing his presidency-for-life and gaining the support of the west for his own devious purposes. Unlike Germany, we accept that our nation has made grevious mistakes in the past."

"And yet, you still expect the current government of Germany and the people of Germany to take responsibility for the actions of people who are no longer in power? The Union no longer exists. Russia itself was subject to chemical and nuclear attacks. Surely these people have suffered enough. I am sure that the Germans accept and deeply regret their role in the Eurasian War. You seem to be on a crusade against the west and Germany in particular, sir. The West should not be viewed as an enemy, but rather a friend who can help."

OOC:

China will be hosting the official peace conference for the whole Middle East conflict as China is and has been neutral not only in the Arabian situation but the FAS civil war as well.

So far, Syria has declared that it will attend. Any other takers?

the US will attend

OOC:

China will be hosting the official peace conference for the whole Middle East conflict as China is and has been neutral not only in the Arabian situation but the FAS civil war as well.

So far, Syria has declared that it will attend. Any other takers?

I have to finisht the borders between the UIR and the FAS, so I'll go.

OOC: Germany supplied Western Arabia with two figher units and trained the pilots plus a few infantry corps which Western Arabia promptly sent over the border, they've since been destroyed.

Western Arabia is the Rashidi's correct?

OOC: Germany supplied the Rashidis with fighters. This was done over a period of several months after the Saudi intervention in the UIR. Most of the border troops were abroad and the Germans managed to sneak in a couple of planes and some Secret Service observers, who actually trained the Rashidis. The Rashidis are operating out of Saudi Arabia, Western Arabia has done nothing yet, as it's orders essentially come from Oman.

The Rashidi forces have been all but destroyed and are currently regrouping in North Arabia.

Is there currently a cease fire? I need to know so that I know if I need to work out some turns of actions, which I was just about to catch up on. Sorry for teh delay by the way, lots of school work on at the moment.

OOC: Germany supplied the Rashidis with fighters. This was done over a period of several months after the Saudi intervention in the UIR. Most of the border troops were abroad and the Germans managed to sneak in a couple of planes and some Secret Service observers, who actually trained the Rashidis. The Rashidis are operating out of Saudi Arabia, Western Arabia has done nothing yet, as it's orders essentially come from Oman.

The Rashidi forces have been all but destroyed and are currently regrouping in North Arabia.

Is there currently a cease fire? I need to know so that I know if I need to work out some turns of actions, which I was just about to catch up on. Sorry for teh delay by the way, lots of school work on at the moment.

I believe that a cease-fire is in effect while China hosts the peace talks in Beijing (Syria, FAS, and USA have already declared they'll attend).

A similar note is passed to the French:
Prussia, Austria, England, and Spain all opposed French democracy in 1789, and had a serious chance of ending the revolution then and there. Will the French let Scandanavia take the Austrian role now?

Unofficial reply on seperate note passed back:

Although we do support the ideals of democracy, we see the crisis in the middle east outside our juristiction and within that of the security council, a body which would have made things much easier if it were around in 1789.

Please accept my everlasting hope that things would turn up for the best.

Parthini']Yuck... the UN...

So what happens if I don't join...

You get to keep your liberty, and not be dictated by the socialist precepts of the UN.

You get to keep your liberty, and not be dictated by the socialist precepts of the UN.

closed game, if you want to join see the main thread (if they're accepting new people)

A man rose from the Russian delegation to speak to the crowd. Many of the delegates however no doubt recognized him from their history books; he was Alexei Romanov, the elected Prime Minister of Russia and the exact of his father: the former Tsar of Russia.

"Ladies and Gentlemen, I come to you today personally to speak of a matter dear to my heart. My nation has not always been a peaceful one. For all of Russia's existents, it has looked towards its borders with fear and desire, looking to expand and spreading war. Whether these wars were right or wrong I cannot say, nor do I care to speculate, for I shall leave that to the historians. What I can say is that no Russian, young or old, communist or conservative can truly say that it was heartless or cruelty that drove them to war. No, whether naive or simply misguided, Russia has always tried to do what is right for its citizens and for its neighbors. And that is why I come before you today. To do what is right for Russia, its people and for the world.”

“In the aftermath of World War Three, and as all the nations of the world rebuilt what was lost, American and Russian diplomats labored to work an agreement to assure Russia would not be a threat to its neighbors. To a certain extent their plan worked excellent. Russians no longer want war, only peace and prosperity and they have openly supported the UN in all its actions.”

“However.”

“These diplomats, misguide or naïve, made one grave miscalculation. They stripped Russia of land, of its blood brethren. Cities like St. Petersburg and Vladivostok were given to other nations as if they were nothing but money or trinkets to be traded. When these cities and the land around them were taken from Russia, each Russian lost a part of his or her self.” Alexei paused for a moment. “I come before you today with a simple request. I ask the UN to help finally end the last great war.”

“Some of you no doubt scuff. ‘What is this man talking about? Doesn’t he know that the war is over?’ And I am here to tell you that the war is not over, it will never be over until all wrongs have been righted. To that end, to end the war finally, I hereby request that the UN in its capacity as a neutral body and as a humanitarian organization hold a vote in the territories that were stripped of Russia. It will be simple: ‘Do you wish to be reunited with Russia?’ And, if the UN is satisfied that the elections were fair and neutral, Russia will accept the results regardless of the answer.”

“I come before you asking for peace, in Russia and the world. Thank you for your consideration.”

Ooc: He is referring to St Petersburg area, Karellia including Murmansk, plus the Kuriles and Vladivostok regions. Obviously they would be split up into smaller regions as the UN see’s fit.

Korea's UN Delegate listens, and then replies:

"Mr. Romanov, as one of the nations that owns ex-Russian territory, in this case the fair city of Vladivostok, Korea cannot fairly comment on a plebisicite by the citizens of the city.

However, we must respectfully remind Mr. Romanov that while we can acommodate this, Korean property, business, and even persons have taken up residence in the city already, though not by force. The Russian population, full Korean citizens, also have a functioning representational government and are a vital part of our economy."

The German Ambassador winced. Alexi Romanov?

This man was a cousin of the Kaiser, although much more distant now. Good God winced the man.

The Ambassador had no idea what to do. Ever since reading Mein Kampf, he had basically decided that all Eastern Europeans were treacherous scum who brought Germany to destruction, but Alexi had been around since Wilhelm the Great!

The Ambassador decided that this was something that he could not decide on his own. He immediately wired questions to Berlin and looked to Rommel or the Kaiser to decide what to do with this relic of days gone by...

OOC: Also, I don't know if you remember, but Alexi is technically a part of the Italian Royal Family b/c the Romanovs married into the Piedmonts after the revolution.

OOC: Germany supplied the Rashidis with fighters. This was done over a period of several months after the Saudi intervention in the UIR. Most of the border troops were abroad and the Germans managed to sneak in a couple of planes and some Secret Service observers, who actually trained the Rashidis. The Rashidis are operating out of Saudi Arabia, Western Arabia has done nothing yet, as it's orders essentially come from Oman.

The Rashidi forces have been all but destroyed and are currently regrouping in North Arabia.

Is there currently a cease fire? I need to know so that I know if I need to work out some turns of actions, which I was just about to catch up on. Sorry for teh delay by the way, lots of school work on at the moment.

OOC: Wait, so who are the Rashidi's? And I think you still have to game out Jan/Feb as this cease fire got called in the spring and the war thread is behind a few months.

The Rashidis are a rival Arab Family of the Saudis. Now they're a bunch of royals running around North Afrika.

Parthini']The German Ambassador winced. Alexi Romanov?

This man was a cousin of the Kaiser, although much more distant now. Good God winced the man.

The Ambassador had no idea what to do. Ever since reading Mein Kampf, he had basically decided that all Eastern Europeans were treacherous scum who brought Germany to destruction, but Alexi had been around since Wilhelm the Great!

The Ambassador decided that this was something that he could not decide on his own. He immediately wired questions to Berlin and looked to Rommel or the Kaiser to decide what to do with this relic of days gone by...

OOC: Also, I don't know if you remember, but Alexi is technically a part of the Italian Royal Family b/c the Romanovs married into the Piedmonts after the revolution.



OOC: Wait, Mein Kampf? Do I see a revival of nazism?

OOCs: The Rashidis I thought ran the Hashemite W. Arabia. Mein Kampf was different in this timeline (like Hitler staying a painter) And I could have sworn Jordan gave me permission to move through them, if not we might as well pretend they did since they didn't raise an issue with it so far. We need someone on the opposition to go to Bejiing.

OOC: Mein Kampf was written by Kaiser Wilhelm II before he died in the eraly 40s. It was a bash on Slavs in general.

OOCs: The Rashidis I thought ran the Hashemite W. Arabia. Mein Kampf was different in this timeline (like Hitler staying a painter) And I could have sworn Jordan gave me permission to move through them, if not we might as well pretend they did since they didn't raise an issue with it so far. We need someone on the opposition to go to Bejiing.

OOC: So did I, guess I was wrong, but I am going to Beijing as is Saudi Arabia.

Korea's UN Delegate listens, and then replies:

"Mr. Romanov, as one of the nations that owns ex-Russian territory, in this case the fair city of Vladivostok, Korea cannot fairly comment on a plebisicite by the citizens of the city.

However, we must respectfully remind Mr. Romanov that while we can acommodate this, Korean property, business, and even persons have taken up residence in the city already, though not by force. The Russian population, full Korean citizens, also have a functioning representational government and are a vital part of our economy."


"All Korean citizens, or citizens of any nation will be encouraged to stay and continue their lives in the now occupied territories assuming they chose to rejoin Russia. No property owned by foreign citizens will be seized.

As to the matter of the political representation, I did not mean to suggest they recieved none, by no means. I have very few complaints about how Russians are treated in the occupied territories in terms of political repersentation. What I desire as I have said before is to close all of Russia's wounds and make sure all people's in the occupied territories have a say in their future."

the US quietly (very quietly) tells Russia it is willing to support Russian efforts to have an election in Vladivostok and St. Petersburg to determine if those 2 cities and the surrounding countryside (sufficient to link them geographically to Russia) are willing to rejoin Russia. In such an election, only residents who lived in those two cities or whose parents lived there in 1940 would be allowed to vote.

The US is not willing to provide support to Russia to get back Karellia (including Murmansk) is most of the inhabitants are not ethnically Russian.

Parthini']OOC: Mein Kampf was written by Kaiser Wilhelm II before he died in the eraly 40s. It was a bash on Slavs in general.

OOC: You stole Hitlers book? Lemme guess what it's like; just like regular Mein Kampf, but replace the word Jew with Slav.

Also, that seems kinda bad for Poland. We really, really, really need a Polish player...

OOC: You stole Hitlers book? Lemme guess what it's like; just like regular Mein Kampf, but replace the word Jew with Slav.

Also, that seems kinda bad for Poland. We really, really, really need a Polish player...

OOC:

I haven't seen Danard (Polish player) lately. Does anyone know whats up with him?

Also, I'm going to start up the IC Beijing Conference thread today.

OOC: You stole Hitlers book? Lemme guess what it's like; just like regular Mein Kampf, but replace the word Jew with Slav.

Also, that seems kinda bad for Poland. We really, really, really need a Polish player...

OOC:I didn't steal it. Hitler is an architecht so why would he hate Jews :p

There are just a few chapters about Slav-Bashing. Most of it is a biased history of Germany while Kaiser Bill was alive. It doesn't have near as much impact as the real one did.

OOC: Wait, so who are the Rashidi's? And I think you still have to game out Jan/Feb as this cease fire got called in the spring and the war thread is behind a few months.

Cheers, will do. I just wanted to be sure before I did anything.

Okay, the Arabians are starving to death, are blockaded, and the United Republics would like to begin building up this area from 3rd world status but can't do it in fear that Saudi soldiers will start shooting. Egypt has withdrawn all invasion forces as promised and is asking, for the five millionth time, for a peace conference with the Saudi Family. (In fact we have two set up, one in Switzerland and one in China, but the Saudi's still haven't agreed to either one)

Okay, the Arabians are starving to death, are blockaded, and the United Republics would like to begin building up this area from 3rd world status but can't do it in fear that Saudi soldiers will start shooting. Egypt has withdrawn all invasion forces as promised and is asking, for the five millionth time, for a peace conference with the Saudi Family. (In fact we have two set up, one in Switzerland and one in China, but the Saudi's still haven't agreed to either one)

OOC: Umm..actually Saudi and the SU have already anounced we plan on attending the Beijing conference, a couple of times.

OOC: Umm..actually Saudi and the SU have already anounced we plan on attending the Beijing conference, a couple of times.

Then let's get this conference under way. How about this starts as the basis for Egypt's askings:

1. A peaceful change in government. Either:
-Constitutional Monarchy with a citizen-elected Parliament equal to the king in powers. (Saudi Family can stay in power)
-or
-Republic (the Saudi Family will be able to run for office)

2. A formal peace agreement between Egypt and the Saudi Family. All hostilities will cease immediately. Relations will resume as normal with no bias.

3. Saudi repayment of 18 points for damages done after Egypt called for a cease-fire. That’s actually only half the real cost of the damages. If you want the numbers:
Hawker Hunter (1)
Expert Pilot (1)
2 Mechanized Infantry (4)
2 Infantry Corps (6)
Mechanized Artillery (3)
Armored Division (3)

4. Egyptian repayment of 3 points for the destruction of Hai’il. Actually the Saudi Army did most of the damage and Ha’il didn’t even have a production center so this is just free cash for the Saudis. Egyptian debt could be subtracted from the Saudi debt to get 15.

I think all of our terms are more than acceptable. That, and Egypt will be building up Saudi Arabia later and will probably spend more points than the Saudi Family is paying back now.

Beijing Conference is up.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10677174#post10677174

A man rose from the Russian delegation to speak to the crowd. Many of the delegates however no doubt recognized him from their history books; he was Alexei Romanov, the elected Prime Minister of Russia and the exact of his father: the former Tsar of Russia.

"Ladies and Gentlemen, I come to you today personally to speak of a matter dear to my heart. My nation has not always been a peaceful one. For all of Russia's existents, it has looked towards its borders with fear and desire, looking to expand and spreading war. Whether these wars were right or wrong I cannot say, nor do I care to speculate, for I shall leave that to the historians. What I can say is that no Russian, young or old, communist or conservative can truly say that it was heartless or cruelty that drove them to war. No, whether naive or simply misguided, Russia has always tried to do what is right for its citizens and for its neighbors. And that is why I come before you today. To do what is right for Russia, its people and for the world.”

“In the aftermath of World War Three, and as all the nations of the world rebuilt what was lost, American and Russian diplomats labored to work an agreement to assure Russia would not be a threat to its neighbors. To a certain extent their plan worked excellent. Russians no longer want war, only peace and prosperity and they have openly supported the UN in all its actions.”

“However.”

“These diplomats, misguide or naïve, made one grave miscalculation. They stripped Russia of land, of its blood brethren. Cities like St. Petersburg and Vladivostok were given to other nations as if they were nothing but money or trinkets to be traded. When these cities and the land around them were taken from Russia, each Russian lost a part of his or her self.” Alexei paused for a moment. “I come before you today with a simple request. I ask the UN to help finally end the last great war.”

“Some of you no doubt scuff. ‘What is this man talking about? Doesn’t he know that the war is over?’ And I am here to tell you that the war is not over, it will never be over until all wrongs have been righted. To that end, to end the war finally, I hereby request that the UN in its capacity as a neutral body and as a humanitarian organization hold a vote in the territories that were stripped of Russia. It will be simple: ‘Do you wish to be reunited with Russia?’ And, if the UN is satisfied that the elections were fair and neutral, Russia will accept the results regardless of the answer.”

“I come before you asking for peace, in Russia and the world. Thank you for your consideration.”

Ooc: He is referring to St Petersburg area, Karellia including Murmansk, plus the Kuriles and Vladivostok regions. Obviously they would be split up into smaller regions as the UN see’s fit.

bump

Once again Alexei Romanov came to address the UN assembly. It had been over a year since he had last visited the great body in hopes of finding a peaceful situation. Little was done however and with a heavy heart he came to address the assembly once again.

“Ladies and Gentlemen, once again I find myself addressing you on a matter very near and dear to my people’s heart. Over one year ago I came to address you on the matter of the land that was stripped from Russia at the end of the last Great War. I came to you in hopes of a diplomatic solution, one that would assure that no issue involving this matter could ever again cause war or conflict in the region.

However, nothing has been done. Russia is a new Russia; it loathes war and wants nothing but peace. But if our brethren are separated from Russia against their will, Russia will NOT AND CANNOT stand for this. I sincerely hope that you will end this crisis, but Russia is willing to take action on its own. I do not want war; no sane man can say he does. But I am my people’s servant and they desire action and an answer. It is you ladies and gentlemen who will help decide on my answer to them. It is you who will be responsible for their safety. It is you who will be responsible for their deaths.”

Syria believes that the US, Scandanavia, Poland, and Korea, along with other Russian neighbors and allies, work together to solve this issue. As the Syrian-Palestinian War showed, border disputes can lead to escalated confrontations, and when the nations disputing are so powerful, there is a great chance of another world war breaking out.

Syria believes that the US, Scandanavia, Poland, and Korea, along with other Russian neighbors and allies, work together to solve this issue. As the Syrian-Palestinian War showed, border disputes can lead to escalated confrontations, and when the nations disputing are so powerful, there is a great chance of another world war breaking out.

Russia has proposed a peaceful solution to the 'disputes' and discussion of the issue did briefly, very briefly, occur however the discussion went no further much to the dismay of the Russian delegation.

Korea's UN Delegate replies to Mr. Romanov and the Syrian:

"Mr. Romanov, let me make it perfectly clear that we Koreans do not wish for war either. Your theatrics are unnecessary in this regard.

Korea would be perfectly willing to host a plebescite. We would be willing to work out an agreement to hold elections in Vladivostok to settle this matter. But I will only do so with UN Supervision-which so far, has not yet materialized.

I therefore, would sponsor any UN Resolution pertaining to this matter. I would be willing to write up said resolution. So rest assuredly, Mr. Romanov- Korea is willing to work something out."

The German Delegate puts forth his support for the Russian proposal and adds that there are many Germans living in Kiel and Schleswig-Holstein who may wish to be a part of Germany once more.

The Egyptian ambassador spoke up,

" Plebescites are the answer to these problems. However, also remember that these lands were stripped from you due to war and threatening to launch another one isn't the answer."

Parthini']The German Delegate puts forth his support for the Russian proposal and adds that there are many Germans living in Kiel and Schleswig-Holstein who may wish to be a part of Germany once more.

OOC: Poles living in East Prussia may wish to be part of Poland, too.

Perhaps we should have plebiscites all over the world, to see who wants to be where? :p

Perhaps we should have plebiscites all over the world, to see who wants to be where? :p

OOC: Meh, then South Africa would cease to exist. Say no to the will of the people! 2+2=5!

The Egyptian ambassador spoke up,

" Plebescites are the answer to these problems. However, also remember that these lands were stripped from you due to war and threatening to launch another one isn't the answer."

Korea's delegate then says, "My sentiments exactly."

The US throws its full support behind plebescites.

Seperate Resolutions are pushed to the floor for plebescites for the following (remember each is a seperate resolution)
1. Vladivostok (see if population wants to return to Russian control)
2. St. Petersburg (see if population wants to return to Russian control)
3. Holstein (return to German control)
4. Schleswig (return to German control)

Pointedly not submitted are anything adjusting situation between Poland and Germany, or Karellia being returned to Russia.

Also submitted is a resolution calling for Portugal to begin a plan of independence for Angola and Mozambique and East Timor.

The US strongly condemns the new provesional government in Saudi Arabia for placing an embargo on oil shipments to the Scandic Union, and also condemns Germany for supporting such a ban, pointing out that it will drive up oil prices world wide and inflict harm on the innocent.

Syria supports all four plebecites in question. Plebecites are usually the best situation when one side is opposed to a diplomatic solution. We will continue our firm stance as a proponent of decolonization, being a former colony ourselves, and a motion to proceed with Portugese independence plans would be favorable.

On the issue of the Arabian oil embargo, we have mixed feelings. While this is bound to cause economic issues, their feelings towards the Scandic Union are understandable. They kept the corrupt Saudi family in power, and tried to keep their control despite vast internal and external pressure. The Arabians have demonstrated their anger at the Scandics the only way they can, by blocking their largest export. Scandanavia has plenty of oil, and plenty of allies with oil, so the stress placed on the international market will be manageable at least.

Pakistan recommends that Plebiscites be held in the following areas as well:

1) East Germany (Provinces 8,12, and 13 otherwise known as Silesia, Posen and West Prussia, on this map (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Prussiamap.gif) To Poland or stay)
2) Slovenia (To Yugoslavia or stay)
3) The Sudetenland (To Czechslovakia or stay)
4) Danzig (Just the city, To Poland or stay)
6) The Konigsberg Area ( Or East Prussia, To Poland or stay)
7) Byelorussia (Independence, to Poland, or stay)

The Pakistani Ambassador states that "Seeing how we are attempting to right the injustices caused by the Great War in Europe, why should we just take lands from the Scandics? They played little role in said war, while Germany gets to take all the land it wants. We must treat all countries equally, as many countries suffered during the Great War, most to certain countries which now wish to gain more land."

Pakistan recommends that Plebiscites be held in the following areas as well:

1) East Germany (Provinces 8,12, and 13 otherwise known as Silesia, Posen and West Prussia, on this map (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Prussiamap.gif) To Poland or stay)
2) Slovenia (To Yugoslavia or stay)
3) The Sudetenland (To Czechslovakia or stay)
4) Danzig (Just the city, To Poland or stay)
6) The Konigsberg Area ( Or East Prussia, To Poland or stay)
7) Byelorussia (Independence, to Poland, or stay)

The Pakistani Ambassador states that "Seeing how we are attempting to right the injustices caused by the Great War in Europe, why should we just take lands from the Scandics? They played little role in said war, while Germany gets to take all the land it wants. We must treat all countries equally, as many countries suffered during the Great War, most to certain countries which now wish to gain more land."

ooc
I don't think Slovenia would be remotely interested in joining with the Serbs again.. they are Catholic, and closer in ties to Austria and Italy then the Serbis (Orthodox).

Germany already has the Sudentland (and its mostly ethnic German)

Konigsberg is 99% German, and Danzig is 60% German

Belorussia might choose independence, but probably not as it shares in current Russian prosperity.

IC
The US will not support the Pakistani proposal unless Pakistan is willing to allow plebiscites in primarily Hindu and Sikh areas of India to determine if they wish to remain in Pakistan.

Those lands have been Prussian for centuries, long before the Great Wars occurred. Those lands are fully integrated into German society and have been. If there was any evidence that those lands had any desire to become Polish, then the world and Germany would have heard so.

As to the Sudetenland, it is more German than Czech and thus should be part of Germany. The German Empire consists of all the lands that are German and will remain so. Even more so, why would the Poles who live in Germany wish to live in a Poland which is unable to provide for their people as well? It is well known that Germany's Social Services are superior to that of Poland, even to its minorities.

And while we are at it, why don't we allow plebicides in Pakistan? I'm sure Punjab would love its chance for independance. What of Kashmir and Bangladesh?

No, my sir, your ideas would destroy the fragile fabric that was created after the Third War. You claim to seek justice but your plan would do nothing but create chaos.

Pakistan recommends that Plebiscites be held in the following areas as well:

1) East Germany (Provinces 8,12, and 13 otherwise known as Silesia, Posen and West Prussia, on this map (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Prussiamap.gif) To Poland or stay)
2) Slovenia (To Yugoslavia or stay)
3) The Sudetenland (To Czechslovakia or stay)
4) Danzig (Just the city, To Poland or stay)
6) The Konigsberg Area ( Or East Prussia, To Poland or stay)
7) Byelorussia (Independence, to Poland, or stay)

The Pakistani Ambassador states that "Seeing how we are attempting to right the injustices caused by the Great War in Europe, why should we just take lands from the Scandics? They played little role in said war, while Germany gets to take all the land it wants. We must treat all countries equally, as many countries suffered during the Great War, most to certain countries which now wish to gain more land."

The Pakistani proposal puzzles the Syrian ambassador. Germany "gets all the land it wants" and this is a bad thing, but Poland and Czechslovakia should get all the land they want? China suffered during the war, but I saw no motion to join Korea with it.

The US throws its full support behind plebescites.

Seperate Resolutions are pushed to the floor for plebescites for the following (remember each is a seperate resolution)
1. Vladivostok (see if population wants to return to Russian control)
2. St. Petersburg (see if population wants to return to Russian control)
3. Holstein (return to German control)
4. Schleswig (return to German control)

Pointedly not submitted are anything adjusting situation between Poland and Germany, or Karellia being returned to Russia.

Korea backs the resolutions concerning Plebescites to be held. They do support a Byelorussian Plebescite, but none of the others in question, citing a similar line of reasoning as the Germans and Syrians.

ooc
my guess by the way that all four plebiscites would result in the majority of the locals wanting to return to either Germany or Russia, although definitely more so in the Russian case as the ethnicities would be nearly all Russian, while the German areas in question would most likely be 65/35 German/Danish

ooc
my guess by the way that all four plebiscites would result in the majority of the locals wanting to return to either Germany or Russia, although definitely more so in the Russian case as the ethnicities would be nearly all Russian, while the German areas in question would most likely be 65/35 German/Danish

OOC: Vladivostok may be a little more difficult to decide (I hope!). We did give them plenty of self-government, some representation and major economic benefits after the war, and they're of a similar status to Puerto Rico in RL at this point (Korean Citizens, in a semi-independent city). And there's also Koreans that moved there as well that may contest this.

Still, you have a point.

Who will be handling said votes if this goes forward?

The US throws its full support behind plebescites.

Seperate Resolutions are pushed to the floor for plebescites for the following (remember each is a seperate resolution)
1. Vladivostok (see if population wants to return to Russian control)
2. St. Petersburg (see if population wants to return to Russian control)
3. Holstein (return to German control)
4. Schleswig (return to German control)

Pointedly not submitted are anything adjusting situation between Poland and Germany, or Karellia being returned to Russia.

Also submitted is a resolution calling for Portugal to begin a plan of independence for Angola and Mozambique and East Timor.

The US strongly condemns the new provesional government in Saudi Arabia for placing an embargo on oil shipments to the Scandic Union, and also condemns Germany for supporting such a ban, pointing out that it will drive up oil prices world wide and inflict harm on the innocent.

China supports the following resolutions.

1. St. Petersburg (see if population wants to return to Russian control)
2. Holstein (return to German control)
3. Schleswig (return to German control)
4. Independent Angola, Mozambique, and East Timor.

China does not support the Pakistan resolutions unless Pakistan is prepared to hold plebiscites within its own territories.

The FNS already recognizes German Territory in europe and does not see the need for any plebisites.

Parthini']Those lands have been Prussian for centuries, long before the Great Wars occurred. Those lands are fully integrated into German society and have been. If there was any evidence that those lands had any desire to become Polish, then the world and Germany would have heard so.

As to the Sudetenland, it is more German than Czech and thus should be part of Germany. The German Empire consists of all the lands that are German and will remain so. Even more so, why would the Poles who live in Germany wish to live in a Poland which is unable to provide for their people as well? It is well known that Germany's Social Services are superior to that of Poland, even to its minorities.

And while we are at it, why don't we allow plebicides in Pakistan? I'm sure Punjab would love its chance for independance. What of Kashmir and Bangladesh?

No, my sir, your ideas would destroy the fragile fabric that was created after the Third War. You claim to seek justice but your plan would do nothing but create chaos.

These Plebiscites (other than the Byelorussian one) were merely to test the international community. It is fine for the Germans, who were a key force in the creation of the Soviet Union and key parts of the Soviet war effort in 2 of the Great Wars to ask for land, but when someone else wants to get land for their own nation, the international community does not agree. It is obvious these plebiscites are not to try and "right any wrongs", they are to take land from the Scandic Union. One nation tries to stand up to the manipulative hand of Washington, and they get striken down.

Also, in response to those asking for "Hindu" and "Sikh" plebiscites in Pakistan, I ask, "Why?" Pakistan is not a nation founded on ethnic or religious lines, as are many of the states in Europe. Pakistan is founded on an idea; that all the peoples of South Asia can be united as one, glorious nation. Unlike in Europe, where people divide themselves along ethnic lines, Pakistan is a nation founded on an idea.

Therefore, unless plebiscites in which Germany shall add more land that it doesn't need are dropped, we will not support the Plebiscites in Russia. If the German plebiscites are dropped (or if the Byellorusian Plebiscite is added), then we shall support them.

The US Ambassador thanks the Pakistani Ambassador for his rhetoric and points out that he is only trying to reduce international tensions.

Position on Plebicites:
Unlike Some others, we do not view the whole world as black and white, certainly there is a price for war-mongering and conquest attempts, but who should pay them? should all Germans or Russians pay for the errors of a handful of their people? What about those who are half-German or half-Russian, do they carry half of the guilt also? Is the guilt based on nationality? or was it based on the actions of individuals?

And what sort of payment is this? What sort of fine is it when many are stripped from their culture and heritage and forced to accept the ways of others? Is this the democracy the war has been fought for?

It may have been tradition that to the victor went the spoils of land, wealth and glory, but not the identity of the defeated. We must recognise that there are Germans in Holstein and Schleswig, Russians in Vladivostok and St. Petersburg and Frenchmen in Corsica.

The last example has sadly been witness to violence, chaos and anarchy. A state of fear and misery touching all the wreatched and saints alike. we hope that this may not be a preview for what may come if action is not carried out in this matter.

Our position: We strongly Recommend that either a plebicite be held or some sort of reform is worked out to recognise the identity of the inhabitants of these areas where they hardly could be described as a minority, should they will it of course.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Other Positions:
Also submitted is a resolution calling for Portugal to begin a plan of independence for Angola and Mozambique and East Timor.

The French Government echos these, but underlines that first it must be established that seccession is favoured by the inhabitants and a careful and pragmatic plan must be placed so as not to harm either nations. The French Government also informs that we are ready help in anyway possible.

A suggestion is made about organising commities to study the situation in these areas before commiting any side to action to limit the negative effects.

The US strongly condemns the new provesional government in Saudi Arabia for placing an embargo on oil shipments to the Scandic Union, and also condemns Germany for supporting such a ban, pointing out that it will drive up oil prices world wide and inflict harm on the innocent.

France echos this aswell and privately offers to partially subsidise fuel costs to the SU's Civillian populace, to limit the effects of this on civillians.

Also submitted is a resolution calling for Portugal to begin a plan of independence for Angola and Mozambique and East Timor.

The Australian ambassador, John Andrews, points out that in certain cases, to dump independence on a people who are unprepared for it could create diasterous consequences for stability in the area.

However, it is also clear that Portugal is incapable of providing for the needs of citizens of these areas. (ooc: taken from the previous player's stance of pouring more funding into secret police than aid). If these regions are to take their places in the world, they will require a steader, kinder hand with which to guide them.

Therefore, the Commonwealth of Australia and New Zealand suggests that stewardship of Portuguese colonies be transfered to nations who are more capable. Furthermore, in the hope that this body has approved of Australasian action involving our recently concluded (and successful) protectorate over Indonesia and Malyasia, we suggest that Australia could provide a similar service to East Timor. Other nations could take Angola and Mozambique.

::Andrews quietly catches the eye of the South African ambassador as he sits back down::

Also submitted is a resolution calling for Portugal to begin a plan of independence for Angola and Mozambique and East Timor.

South Africa supports the idea of Angolan and Mozambican independence, but protests the use of UN authority in a matter that does not involve the world community. Ambassador Diedreichs states that South Africa will offer to mediate negotiations between the Portugese government and representatives of the native population.

Diedreichs also acknowledges the possibility of stewardship, and states that the recent Australian "stewardship" over Indonesia was a successful example of such a plan.

The US supports the Australian plan concerning Portuguese Africa and Timor. In addition, the US apologizes to France for forgetting about Corsica, where even now the locals are in sharp dispute with the Italian government (ooc based on his thread anyway)

A resolution calling for a plebiscite in Corsica would have US support as well.

The United Republics support South Africa's administration over Angola and Mozambique. Due to logistical and nationality purposes, we believe South Africa is much more capable of governing both colonies. In addition, I believe South Africa would have much better judgement on when the colonies would be ready for self-governing (or merging with South Africa ;) ) while Portugal would be extremely reluctant to give up the colonies, which could potentially weaken their economy.

Position on Plebicites:
Our position: We strongly Recommend that either a plebicite be held or some sort of reform is worked out to recognise the identity of the inhabitants of these areas where they hardly could be described as a minority, should they will it of course.

Korea's delegate replies, "I had said something a year ago on this. But, I will state it again, since only the eminent Mr. Romanov heard it. We support a plebescite.

But, we recognize they are Russians in ethnicity. Ergo, the Russians in Vladivostok have a significant degree of local governance in their affairs. They are full Korean citizens, and entitiled to rights of Koreans. We even made an agreement with the preserving Russian culture, and the Orthodox Church!

So do not presume we have tried to deny them their heritage, Mr. Ambassador. For our record shows they not only have it, they live it."

We apologise if we have offended our Korean collegue, but if that is case with that city then if a plebicite is held the city may gladly choose to stay with Korea.

We apologise if we have offended our Korean collegue, but if that is case with that city then if a plebicite is held the city may gladly choose to stay with Korea.

Korea's delegate then replied, "Apology is accepted. In retrospect, my tone was not the best either. But I had to bring my point across."

So, as I understand it, the following plebecites are on the table.

1. Vladivostok (see if population wants to return to Russian control)
2. St. Petersburg (see if population wants to return to Russian control)
3. Holstein (return to German control)
4. Schleswig (return to German control)
5) East Germany (Provinces 8,12, and 13 otherwise known as Silesia, Posen and West Prussia, on this map To Poland or stay)
6) Slovenia (To Yugoslavia or stay)
7) The Sudetenland (To Czechslovakia or stay)
8) Danzig (Just the city, To Poland or stay)
9) The Konigsberg Area ( Or East Prussia, To Poland or stay)
10) Byelorussia (Independence, to Poland, or stay)
11) Corsica (To France or Stay)
12) Mozambique, Angola, and E. Timor (Stay or Independence)

Syria's stance on these is as follows. On the former Russian lands, we believe a plebecite should be held. While many in our nation and most others were happy to see the Soviet Union dissolved, they lost extreme amounts of land, many times the size of most nations here. It is natural that some places want to rejoin their homeland. In a similar vein, we believe many in Belarus would like to stay.

On the areas debating whether to join Germany or not, we again are in favor of plebecites. Germany has been trying to become a homeland for all German people since the 1860's, and I'd imagine many wish to join them. On the lands proposed to leave Germany, we believe they would wish to stay German.

A Slovenian plebecite would be supported, although we doubt it will suceed. Corsica returning to France is possible, as it has been a center of French life since Napoleon took power.

We have long been a proponent of decolonization, although we think Portugal has left its lands woefully unprepared. Nations that have proved better at the task, like Australia, South Africa, or even England and France should take up the position.

So, as I understand it, the following plebecites are on the table.

1. Vladivostok (see if population wants to return to Russian control)
2. St. Petersburg (see if population wants to return to Russian control)
3. Holstein (return to German control)
4. Schleswig (return to German control)
5) East Germany (Provinces 8,12, and 13 otherwise known as Silesia, Posen and West Prussia, on this map To Poland or stay)
6) Slovenia (To Yugoslavia or stay)
7) The Sudetenland (To Czechslovakia or stay)
8) Danzig (Just the city, To Poland or stay)
9) The Konigsberg Area ( Or East Prussia, To Poland or stay)
10) Byelorussia (Independence, to Poland, or stay)
11) Corsica (To France or Stay)
12) Mozambique, Angola, and E. Timor (Stay or Independence)

Syria's stance on these is as follows. On the former Russian lands, we believe a plebecite should be held. While many in our nation and most others were happy to see the Soviet Union dissolved, they lost extreme amounts of land, many times the size of most nations here. It is natural that some places want to rejoin their homeland. In a similar vein, we believe many in Belarus would like to stay.

On the areas debating whether to join Germany or not, we again are in favor of plebecites. Germany has been trying to become a homeland for all German people since the 1860's, and I'd imagine many wish to join them. On the lands proposed to leave Germany, we believe they would wish to stay German.

A Slovenian plebecite would be supported, although we doubt it will suceed. Corsica returning to France is possible, as it has been a center of French life since Napoleon took power.

We have long been a proponent of decolonization, although we think Portugal has left its lands woefully unprepared. Nations that have proved better at the task, like Australia, South Africa, or even England and France should take up the position.

OOC: Actually, all of the ones I proposed for Germany were just to test the international community. The only one I was serious ab00t was Byellorussia. I said that wee bit back.

OOC: Yes, but you didnt say that IC did you?

OOC: Yes, but you didnt say that IC did you?

I did.

We would like to discuss a matter with the UN; the increasingly disturbing issue in the Middle East has caused an uproar in the global economic oil market, Speculation has caused oil prices to go up in all countries harming both consumer and businesses.

Although we recognise that the damage is already done, But we strongly urge the members of the UN to take up action. Pointing out the large Scandic prescence in Saudi Arabia which plays a major factor in the region.

A mandate must be made to restore peace in this vitally sensitive Region..

OOC: Are we ever going to have those plebicides? I think they should happen in January of 1955 (tommorow) so we can finally get them over with!

Parthini']OOC: Are we ever going to have those plebicides? I think they should happen in January of 1955 (tommorow) so we can finally get them over with!

I agree. But how to RP them?

roll dice, only fair way

If it's all right with everyone, I can roll for every plebiscite but the one involving Mozambique and Angola (because of conflict of interest).

If it's all right with everyone, I can roll for every plebiscite but the one involving Mozambique and Angola (because of conflict of interest).

Deal.

If it's all right with everyone, I can roll for every plebiscite but the one involving Mozambique and Angola (because of conflict of interest).

that was actually a joke, but I guess it was a good idea

I'll role for Angola and Mozambique if you want

Results of UN-mandated plebiscites:
1.Vladivostok-stays with Korea*
2. St. Petersburg-to Russia
3. Holstein-to Germany
4. Schleswig-to Germany
5. Byelorussia-Independence
6. Corsica-to France

*I gave slightly higher odds for staying with Korea, because New Dornalia stressed the emphasis on political, civil, and economic freedoms for Russians, as well as the fact that many Koreans now live in the city. Plus, Vladivostok is much less likely to be targeted in the next war as a Korean possession than if it were a Russian one.

would that be a yes to rolling for Angola and Mozambique? If so, what do I roll?

Results of UN-mandated plebiscites:
1.Vladivostok-stays with Korea*
2. St. Petersburg-to Russia
3. Holstein-to Germany
4. Schleswig-to Germany
5) East Germany-Silesia and West Prussia to Germany, Posen to Poland
6) Slovenia-to Yugoslavia
7) The Sudetenland-to Germany
8) Danzig-to Poland
9) The Konigsberg Area (East Prussia)-to Germany
10) Byelorussia-Independence
11) Corsica-to France

*I gave slightly higher odds for staying with Korea, because New Dornalia stressed the emphasis on political, civil, and economic freedoms for Russians, as well as the fact that many Koreans now live in the city. Plus, Vladivostok is much less likely to be targeted in the next war as a Korean possession than if it were a Russian one.

Umm... no.... 5-9 were never on the Resolution. Pakistan even said so.

These Plebiscites (other than the Byelorussian one) were merely to test the international community. It is fine for the Germans, who were a key force in the creation of the Soviet Union and key parts of the Soviet war effort in 2 of the Great Wars to ask for land, but when someone else wants to get land for their own nation, the international community does not agree. It is obvious these plebiscites are not to try and "right any wrongs", they are to take land from the Scandic Union. One nation tries to stand up to the manipulative hand of Washington, and they get striken down.

Also, in response to those asking for "Hindu" and "Sikh" plebiscites in Pakistan, I ask, "Why?" Pakistan is not a nation founded on ethnic or religious lines, as are many of the states in Europe. Pakistan is founded on an idea; that all the peoples of South Asia can be united as one, glorious nation. Unlike in Europe, where people divide themselves along ethnic lines, Pakistan is a nation founded on an idea.

Therefore, unless plebiscites in which Germany shall add more land that it doesn't need are dropped, we will not support the Plebiscites in Russia. If the German plebiscites are dropped (or if the Byellorusian Plebiscite is added), then we shall support them.

So... Poland doesn't get Silesia and West Prussia and Danzig.

And Solvenia, as said wouldn't want a Plebicide anyways. They have no cultural connection to the Slavs and are happy being independant and tied to Italy.

And the Sudetenland... now that's just silly.

Parthini']Umm... no.... 5-9 were never on the Resolution. Pakistan even said so.



So... Poland doesn't get Silesia and West Prussia and Danzig.

And Solvenia, as said wouldn't want a Plebicide anyways. They have no cultural connection to the Slavs and are happy being independant and tied to Italy.

And the Sudetenland... now that's just silly.

Hmm...you're right. Seems I got carried away. My apologies.

Haneastic, just rolling a die or two would be fine. My guess is that the independence/stewardship option would have better odds of success, but I'll leave that to you.

he said or Byelorussia is added (just nitpicking here)

Beylorussia was #10 which I included. So 5-9 are null. 1-4 and 10-11 are still on the table.

ok, doesn't really matter to me.

Dont forget East Timor (as Angola but with Austalia instead of S. Africa)

whoops, didn't read Malkyer's reply

Angola: to South Africa
East Timor: to Australia
Mozambique: Independant

on a roll of a 6 sided dice, I had for joining the nations a 3-6 chance. Mozambique rolled a 2

Parthini']Umm... no.... 5-9 were never on the Resolution. Pakistan even said so.



So... Poland doesn't get Silesia and West Prussia and Danzig.

And Solvenia, as said wouldn't want a Plebicide anyways. They have no cultural connection to the Slavs and are happy being independant and tied to Italy.

And the Sudetenland... now that's just silly.

I wish that the international community wasn't so hypocritical; then Poland would have it's rightful territories back. *sigh*, looks like it has to gain them back through war, seeing how they are apparently very popular in those areas :)

Secondly, after researching, I found out that the Slovenians are, indeed, Slavs. They speak a Slavic language as well. I think they would be better off independent then with the Italians or Yugoslavians, but that's just me.

Oh, my bad about Slovenia. That was what I got from GB. Anyways, they're Catholic, not Orthodox.

And those lands that are "Polish" are just as, if not, more so German. There are just as many German Speakers there and in some places, like Konigsburg, a lot more. The areas didn't become "Polish" until after WWII when all the Germans fled the Soviet Armies.

And if Poland wants a war, I'd be more than happy to accommodate their desire to get rid of the Baltic States :)

Parthini']Oh, my bad about Slovenia. That was what I got from GB. Anyways, they're Catholic, not Orthodox.

And those lands that are "Polish" are just as, if not, more so German. There are just as many German Speakers there and in some places, like Konigsburg, a lot more. The areas didn't become "Polish" until after WWII when all the Germans fled the Soviet Armies.

And if Poland wants a war, I'd be more than happy to accommodate their desire to get rid of the Baltic States :)

I didn't expect Konigsberg to join Poland :p

Also, those areas didn't become "German" until the partitions :P.

Thirdly, I think Slovenia should just become independent. Religion-wise, they're closer to the Italians, but culture-wise, they're closer to Yugoslavia.

Yeah, but they're German now. England wasn't always Anglo Saxon, you know. Should we give it to the Wolly Mammoths :p

And I thought I said Slovenia should be indi... oh well :p

Parthini']Oh, my bad about Slovenia. That was what I got from GB. Anyways, they're Catholic, not Orthodox.

And those lands that are "Polish" are just as, if not, more so German. There are just as many German Speakers there and in some places, like Konigsburg, a lot more. The areas didn't become "Polish" until after WWII when all the Germans fled the Soviet Armies.

And if Poland wants a war, I'd be more than happy to accommodate their desire to get rid of the Baltic States :)

ethnically Slavic, but use Roman style alphabet instead of Cyrellic, and Catholic instead of Orthodox. They are no more closely affeliated with Serbia then Poland is. In post Tito real life Yugoslavia, they were the only nation that didn't have to really fight to break away from Yugoslavia, unlike practically everyone else.

The US announces its acceptance of the plebiscite results and urges all UN member nations to do the same. It proposes that South Africa be appointed guardianship over Mozambique to assist it in building a state government, with UN assistance (the various UN organizations).

ooc
The Portuguese government will probably fall over this, and there should be other complications I would think. The UN basically just muscled Portugal after all.

The US brings before the Security Council asking for an immediate pull out of all European military forces and personnel from Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan and Oman, and the dispatch of the French Foreign Legion (which is assigned to the UN as a peacekeeping force remember) to the area, as well as supporting peace keeping troops from the US, Russia and Britian to assist.

These forces will hold the ports, airports and oilfields and the US points out that thousands of American and British citizens are located in Saudi Arabia working to assist the Saudi economy (handling the oil production for example).

In addition, Omani, Kuwaiti and Jordanian troops will handle civil order in the cities while elections are held.

All UN troops under this resolution to be withdrawn 60 days after the election of a Saudi government.

ooc
since this is a security council resolution, it can be vetoed by the permanent members. Malkyer, figure 2 European, 2 Pacific / Asian, 2 American and 2 African nations on the Security Council plus a couple of others to make up the numbers would seem fair.

The US announces its acceptance of the plebiscite results and urges all UN member nations to do the same. It proposes that South Africa be appointed guardianship over Mozambique to assist it in building a state government, with UN assistance (the various UN organizations).

ooc
The Portuguese government will probably fall over this, and there should be other complications I would think. The UN basically just muscled Portugal after all.

ooc: i have all these changes tentatively on a map, although I will wait for a ruling on mozambique before I post

IC: the Australian government eagerly (ooc: perhaps too eagerly?) endorses the plebiscites, and moves 2 marine light brigades to east timor to keep the peace.

The US brings before the Security Council asking for an immediate pull out of all European military forces and personnel from Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan and Oman, and the dispatch of the French Foreign Legion (which is assigned to the UN as a peacekeeping force remember) to the area, as well as supporting peace keeping troops from the US, Russia and Britian to assist.

These forces will hold the ports, airports and oilfields and the US points out that thousands of American and British citizens are located in Saudi Arabia working to assist the Saudi economy (handling the oil production for example).

In addition, Omani, Kuwaiti and Jordanian troops will handle civil order in the cities while elections are held.

All UN troops under this resolution to be withdrawn 60 days after the election of a Saudi government.

ooc
since this is a security council resolution, it can be vetoed by the permanent members. Malkyer, figure 2 European, 2 Pacific / Asian, 2 American and 2 African nations on the Security Council plus a couple of others to make up the numbers would seem fair.

China supports the plebiscite results.

However China decides to add a new part to the US proposal regarding Arabia. China requests to send observers and possibly lend some peace-keeping troops as we have been neutral throughout the entire incident. China believes that an Asian nation should be included in the peace-keeping efforts alongside the Europeans and Americans.

The French Representative indicates That the French government is willing to aprove an aid package of 4.75 points to the UN to help in any planned expedition to aid the troubled region of Saudi Arabia.

We hope that the area may finally establish some stabillity.

A mechanized infantry division is stationed along the Angolan border, though no troops are moved across yet, as South Africa is willing to give the Portugese government a few days to acknowledge the plebiscite.

South Africa agrees with the US proposals concerning Mozambique and Arabia.

OOC:
Permanent Security Council: US, UK, China, South Africa, Colombia
1955 Rotating Security Council: Italy, Poland, Belgium, Honduras, Canada, Korea, Kashgaria, Egypt (United Republics) , Liberia, Pakistan

I assigned the Rotating Security Council based on the first nations I thought of; I made a mix of PC and NPC countries. Parthini should decide the NPC votes.

Britain supports the US security council proposal and advises other members to do so.

The British UN representative awaits the general response to the plebiscites before issuing any response himself.

[B]
2. St. Petersburg-to Russia
3. Holstein-to Germany
4. Schleswig-to Germany


OOC: I'm pretty sure I said I didn't want plebiscites held on my land earlier, so those wouldn't have happened.

IC: Plebiscites will not ake place in Schlesiwg-Holstein as long as German weapons are killing Scandic soldiers. As far as St. Petersburg goes, the only reason that city is remotly Russian is because years ago the Russian Tsars forced hundreds of thousands of soldiers and serfs to move to the area and give Russia claim to it, over Sweden.(Thats why its called the city built on bones) So in all fairness if plebiscites are to be held in St Petersburg than Th Scandic Union should have the right to do the same as it was only those Russian actions that caused there to be any significant Russian population at all.

A note is passed to the Americans reading:
During the last Great War you promised us these lands if we joined your side, so we did and in doing so lost a fair number of lives and took a great risk. Now, after promising us these lands if we fought at your side your supporting those same nations that fought against us in a proposal to take these lands back? You promised us these lands and we fought by your side, and never have we done something to betray you but now you are betraying us. All we want is to keep the lands we were promised.

China supports the plebiscite results.

However China decides to add a new part to the US proposal regarding Arabia. China requests to send observers and possibly lend some peace-keeping troops as we have been neutral throughout the entire incident. China believes that an Asian nation should be included in the peace-keeping efforts alongside the Europeans and Americans.

If peacekeepers are to be sent we would greatly prefer it to be a Chinese force, as only the Chinese are truly neutral in this affair.

Plebiscites will not ake place in Schlesiwg-Holstein as long as German weapons are killing Scandic soldiers. As far as St. Petersburg goes, the only reason that city is remotly Russian is because years ago the Russian Tsars forced hundreds of thousands of soldiers and serfs to move to the area and give Russia claim to it, over Sweden.(Thats why its called the city built on bones) So in all fairness if plebiscites are to be held in St Petersburg than Th Scandic Union should have the right to do the same as it was only those Russian actions that caused there to be any significant Russian population at all.

Are we to disregard the actual fact that Russians and Germans live in those lands, solely on the point that they moved there? That is absurd, because by his reasoning, not only should most nations here not exist, but his own country would be reduced to a small coastal group of highly populated cities.

And as to German guns, the German Government has no say over who is killed by guns made by private enterprizes. We, strong supporters of Capitalism, which we all fought so hard for, have allowed our arms manufacturers to sell to individuals, some of whom are in the Middle East and are attacking Scandinvians who shouldn't be there in the first place!

Germany, hearing the call of its people, gives the SU 1 month to leave Schleswig-Holstein or the Reichswehr shall do it for them.

Results of UN-mandated plebiscites:
1.Vladivostok-stays with Korea*....

....*I gave slightly higher odds for staying with Korea, because New Dornalia stressed the emphasis on political, civil, and economic freedoms for Russians, as well as the fact that many Koreans now live in the city. Plus, Vladivostok is much less likely to be targeted in the next war as a Korean possession than if it were a Russian one.

At this, the Korean UN Delegate says, "We have no problem, obviously, with these results. The people of the city made a fair, honest choice, and under international supervision, and we can be sure these are valid."

Kim's Government, meanwhile (which just got reelected), breathes a sigh of relief. It boosts his popularity slightly (Vladivostok is still with them), something he need-the Oil Shock still is making a mess.

Parthini']
Germany, hearing the call of its people, gives the SU 1 month to leave Schleswig-Holstein or the Reichswehr shall do it for them.

So will Germany start another war? You would think after all the conflict you've instigated so far you'd be done.

OOC: I'm pretty sure I said I didn't want plebiscites held on my land earlier, so those wouldn't have happened.

IC: Plebiscites will not ake place in Schlesiwg-Holstein as long as German weapons are killing Scandic soldiers. As far as St. Petersburg goes, the only reason that city is remotly Russian is because years ago the Russian Tsars forced hundreds of thousands of soldiers and serfs to move to the area and give Russia claim to it, over Sweden.(Thats why its called the city built on bones) So in all fairness if plebiscites are to be held in St Petersburg than Th Scandic Union should have the right to do the same as it was only those Russian actions that caused there to be any significant Russian population at all.

A note is passed to the Americans reading:
During the last Great War you promised us these lands if we joined your side, so we did and in doing so lost a fair number of lives and took a great risk. Now, after promising us these lands if we fought at your side your supporting those same nations that fought against us in a proposal to take these lands back? You promised us these lands and we fought by your side, and never have we done something to betray you but now you are betraying us. All we want is to keep the lands we were promised.

ooc
The only way to stop them is if the SU decides to ignore the UN, which opens up a big can of worms if it happens.

IC
The US privately points out to the SU that giving up St. Petersburg will provide considerable security to the continued incorporation of Karellia and Finland in the SU, a greater good in this case, while letting the Germans in Schleswig Holstein (ooc I really hate trying to spell that) will ease tensions with Germany. In short, a compromise in this case will prevent a war and in the long term ensure greater security for the Scandic Union. In total land area the sacrifice is not great when compared to the land the Scandic Union will retain, and the US for one sees know reason why the Scandic Union should have to hand over factories that it built postwar to Germany or Russia (ooc, in other words, the US notes that the resolution doesn't prevent the Scandic UNion from removing the production centers out of St. Petersburg and Kiel for example).

So will Germany start another war? You would think after all the conflict you've instigated so far you'd be done.

Korea's UN Delegate replies, "He has a point you know. We call upon the German people to settle down, and come to the peace table before you unleash the bomb on your neighbors to the North. As it is, the reprehensible actions of both the Germans and Scandanavians have resulted in a devastating Oil Shock. We need no further meddling."

If peacekeepers are to be sent we would greatly prefer it to be a Chinese force, as only the Chinese are truly neutral in this affair.

If the Scandic Union agrees to pull its troops out of Saudi Arabia then the US is perfectly willing to have Chinese troops handle the ports and airports, American and British troops provide security to the oilfields (where the bulk of the American and British citizens are located) and Omani, Jordanian, Kuwaiti and Western Arabian troops provide security to the local population during the transition.

Parthini']Are we to disregard the actual fact that Russians and Germans live in those lands, solely on the point that they moved there? That is absurd, because by his reasoning, not only should most nations here not exist, but his own country would be reduced to a small coastal group of highly populated cities.

And as to German guns, the German Government has no say over who is killed by guns made by private enterprizes. We, strong supporters of Capitalism, which we all fought so hard for, have allowed our arms manufacturers to sell to individuals, some of whom are in the Middle East and are attacking Scandinvians who shouldn't be there in the first place!

Germany, hearing the call of its people, gives the SU 1 month to leave Schleswig-Holstein or the Reichswehr shall do it for them.

The US Ambassador remarks on the German ability to make a tense situation more difficult. A German attempt to remove the Scandic Union from those territories is not UN sanctioned and a threat to do so is highly provactive. The United States warns Germany to reconsider and to give the UN a chance to resolve the situation.

OOC:

China is willing to send one or two Infantry Corps as a peacekeeping mission. Will 1 or 2 be enough?

Due to our geostrategic position and neutrality (I'm for the SU's democracy but I'm Germany's ally meaning I can't really pick sides), the United Republics can provide protection for Arabia from foreign influence. We would also like to point out that it would probably be best if we set a troop and time limit on each contributing nation. Afterall, who says the US and British will be willing to hand over those rich oil fields if the recession gets worse? Perhaps we should say 1 corp for 1 year to the US, UK, etc. and then maybe 2-3 corps for 2 years for China, France, and the other UN nations.

The US brings before the Security Council asking for an immediate pull out of all European military forces and personnel from Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan and Oman, and the dispatch of the French Foreign Legion (which is assigned to the UN as a peacekeeping force remember) to the area, as well as supporting peace keeping troops from the US, Russia and Britian to assist.

These forces will hold the ports, airports and oilfields and the US points out that thousands of American and British citizens are located in Saudi Arabia working to assist the Saudi economy (handling the oil production for example).

In addition, Omani, Kuwaiti and Jordanian troops will handle civil order in the cities while elections are held.

All UN troops under this resolution to be withdrawn 60 days after the election of a Saudi government.
ooc
since this is a security council resolution, it can be vetoed by the permanent members. Malkyer, figure 2 European, 2 Pacific / Asian, 2 American and 2 African nations on the Security Council plus a couple of others to make up the numbers would seem fair.

original US resolution... note the deadline. An amendment adding a deadline for elections would be acceptable and welcome

Pakistan supports the SU. It is the business of the Scandic Union to choose what happens to it's territories. If you had sought out the SU's support before the votes, then this wouldn't happen. However, the International Community moved without the Scandic Union's permission. Therefore, if Germany moves to take Schleswig Holstein by force, then Pakistan shall defend the Scandic Unions national integrity. While we are all for democracy and popular sovereignty, this is not only a move against the SU, it is a move to take lands that the SU gained with blood and sweat, fighting in the name of freedom. Now Germany and Russia, which were the main members of the evil alliance that we sought to destroy, want their lands back.

Pakistan supports the SU. It is the business of the Scandic Union to choose what happens to it's territories. If you had sought out the SU's support before the votes, then this wouldn't happen. However, the International Community moved without the Scandic Union's permission. Therefore, if Germany moves to take Schleswig Holstein by force, then Pakistan shall defend the Scandic Unions national integrity. While we are all for democracy and popular sovereignty, this is not only a move against the SU, it is a move to take lands that the SU gained with blood and sweat, fighting in the name of freedom. Now Germany and Russia, which were the main members of the evil alliance that we sought to destroy, want their lands back.

It is interesting that the nations who continually insult Russia and Germany are the same ones who made deals with the "evil alliance." It is also interesting how that same nation champions the values of freedom also was one of the last nations to join the war.

The Ambassador also pointedly asks the Pakistani where are the accusations from the Central Asian Republic? From Poland? From China who allied with them the war before? If one blames only a select few, one must blame them all.

As to Pakistan's threat, the German Ambassador kindly reminds Pakistan that an attack on its own ally would force the true nations of the Commonwealth to come to Germany's aid.

German forces near Hamburg are also ordered not to enter Schleswig-Holstein until Scandic troops have left. However, the Armies are still on heightened alert.

Germany also praises the UN's resolution regarding Arabia.

Parthini']
As to Pakistan's threat, the German Ambassador kindly reminds Pakistan that an attack on its own ally would force the true nations of the Commonwealth to come to Germany's aid.

German forces near Hamburg are also ordered not to enter Schleswig-Holstein until Scandic troops have left. However, the Armies are still on heightened alert.


Pakistan is in the Commonwealth because of its ties to the British Empire, not because of its ties to Germany. We will not support you in a wanton land-grab. If the Scandic Union gives its consent, then you may take the land. However, as long as the SU declares that Schleswig-Holstein is Scandic territory, then we shall support it. We previously supported the Plebiscites because we were under the impression that the SU had given its support.

If the actions of previous governments are to be taken into account, India hardly has a clean slate. Besides, Scandanavia made no statement criticizing the plebecites until they had lost, a trend that appears to be common in the Scandanavian system. They refused elections, refused international observers, and then they lost their power. Now they beg for the elections they called illegal last year.

We would like to point out that, as of today, there are no foreign troops in Syria, excluding those at the Arab League training facility in Beirut, which includes both nations like Baghdad and Morrocco, but also a limited number of German advisors. While Germany plans to open a base in Syria, this is not scheduled to occur until next year, and this is purely for mutual security reasons. Our neighbor to the north, Turkey, has been cooperative, if only passively, in Scandanavia's attempts to stop democratic groups in Arabia, and has let Scandic troops move through their lands to do so. As one of the smaller nations present, we cannot sustain the massive militaries Scandanavia and Turkey can, and would feel more secure with help. However, if delaying this would help bring about peace, then we will delay.

OOC:
My idea for security council rotation:

I made a list of what I believe is every nation on E20, and sorted it by continent (Europe, Asia/Pacific, Africa, Americas) Then, selecting as randomly as I thought possible (closing my eyes and clicking, although using dice would work just as nicely) selected 3 from the Asia list, 3 from the Europe list, and 2 from each of the others, giving 10 rotating members. I kept 1955 as is, and used that as the firsy year under the system. In 1961, Africa and the Americas will begin to repeat, and Asia and Europe would be finishing their first rotation, as I used the idea that, for example, Canada cannot serve twice before Cuba has served once. I did not include either Arabia, as the situation there has not yet stabilized, and I excluded San Marino, Andorra, and Lichtenstein from Europe, as I wasnt sure if they deserved a spot due to their size.

The lists I used were as follows (let me know if theres any errors, although I left permanent members up on purpose)
ASIA
Korea
UIR
Armenia and Georgia
Central Asian Republic
Syria
Kashgaria
Australia
Pakistan
Burma
Jordan
USAE
Kurdistan
Nepal
Turkey
malaysia
Philippines
Oman
Azerbajan
Japan
Bhutan
indonesia
Basra

AMERICAS
Honduras
Dominican Republic
Canada
Haiti
Mexico
Nicuruaga
Cuba
El Salvador
Brazil
Costa Rica
Virgin Islands

EUROPE
Switzerland
Hungary
Greece
Italy
Russia
SU
Poland
Ukraine
Belgium
Burgundy
Bulgaria
Rumania
portugal
Netherlands
Yugoslavia
Ireland
Czechslovakia
Spain
Albania
France
Germany
Andorra
San Marino
Liechtenstein (see above on these)

AFRICA
Egypt
Liberia
Togo
Ethiopia
Nigeria
Ghana
Mozambique
French NW Africa
Senegal

I can post my lists if you want later.

Uhh... you totally forgot Germany.

Parthini']Uhh... you totally forgot Germany.

obviously Andorra is much more important (chuckle)

What about France? Don't tell me you're still upset from that war...

Nigeria offers it's full support to all of the plebscites that have taken place on the European and African continents. In addition, we condemn the Scandic Union for ignoring the will of the people in the Schleswig Holstein area. THey are obviously no true friend of democracy.

Oops, I mostly got this from the main thread and NPC thread. Did I miss any other PC countries?

Gambia and Senegal are not listed, though they are quite small NPCs, but still more important than some of the ones listed.

Having received no communique from the Portugese government regarding the recent UN plebiscite in Angola or Mozambique, South African forces (consisting of one mechanized division and one light infantry division) have crossed the Southwest African-Angolan border. South Africa has declared Angola a "depedent state of South Africa," and is broadcasting radio messages to the effect that any Portugese government official or soldier who resists the South African occupation is in violation of UN mandate. Civilians, both natives and colonists, are urged to comply with instructions from the South African Defense Force.

South African troops have not moved into Mozambique at this time. South Africa does not recognize Mozambique as an indepedent state, but is unwilling to jeopardize its support in the UN by taking action against Mozambique until the Angolan affair is over.

Pakistan recognizes Mozambiques independece, and promises to defend its independence. Being a former colony itself, India recognizes the trouble that Mozambique will face and the future, and declares that it shall help Mozambique in any way it can.

Pakistan recognizes Mozambiques independece, and promises to defend its independence. Being a former colony itself, India recognizes the trouble that Mozambique will face and the future, and declares that it shall help Mozambique in any way it can.

The South African government points out that South Africa itself knows well the horrors of imperialist colonial rule. Modern South Africa was founded after almost a century and a half of bloodshed; President van Aarten has made clear that if the Republic can spare other fledgling nations such turmoil and chaos, it is the Republic's duty to do so. Nicolaas Diedeirchs cites South African aid in building the Nigerian economy and military as an example of South African assistance to newly independent nations.

Pakistani declarations concerning Mozambique are dismissed as "saber-rattling," though the South African government issues a statement pledging that South African military forces will only cross the Mozambican border if mandated by the UN.

The South African government points out that South Africa itself knows well the horrors of imperialist colonial rule. Modern South Africa was founded after almost a century and a half of bloodshed; President van Aarten has made clear that if the Republic can spare other fledgling nations such turmoil and chaos, it is the Republic's duty to do so. Nicolaas Diedeirchs cites South African aid in building the Nigerian economy and military as an example of South African assistance to newly independent nations.

Pakistani declarations concerning Mozambique are dismissed as "saber-rattling," though the South African government issues a statement pledging that South African military forces will only cross the Mozambican border if mandated by the UN.

Pakistan suggests that to try and reach a compromise, Mozambique be admitted to the Commonwealth, so that South Africa can have its influence on Mozambique, and the Mozambican people can live the way they wish to live.

South Africa does not feel that Mozambiques meets the requirements for entry into the Commonwealth; South Africa will instead agree to honor the results of the UN plebiscite, and recognize Mozambique as indepedent.

South Africa does not feel that Mozambiques meets the requirements for entry into the Commonwealth; South Africa will instead agree to honor the results of the UN plebiscite, and recognize Mozambique as indepedent.

Very well then.

Britain also notes that the admission of Mozambique to the Commonwealth of Nations would be highly irregular and not attempted before as it contravenes one of the fundamental rules of the Commonwealth. However perhaps it should not be ruled out for the future.

OOC: Mozambique was admitted as a member in 1995, in respect of it's close ties to South Africa. After being occupied by SA forces Angola will technically be available for membership.

IC again:

Britain reckognises the results of the plebescite held in Mozambique and welcomes it to the international community as an independent state. Britain also reckognises the legality of SA intervention in Angola to promote further development there and to increase social security benefits to the local population, particularly the indiginous peoples.

The Kingdom of Bulgaria will now also recognize Mozambique as a independent nation as well...
Bulgaria's new representative to the UN will be Aleksander Runesilov...the old representative has been sacked by the National Assembly in Sofia.

Korea recognizes Mozamique as an independent state.

The German ambassador recognizes the new nation of Mozambique.

However, he reminds the UN Body of the still unresolved issue of Schleswig-Hostein and its continual illegal ownership by Scandinavia. Germany was going to deal with the issue on its own until the UN told it to back down. Germany was willing to work through the issue peacefully. However, Germany reminds the UN body that the denizens democratically requested to join Germany and thus, Germany will do anything to ensure that the all Germans who wish to be part of the German Empire be so.

The German Reichswehr gives the UN body until June 20 (RL Later tonight) to deal with the issue peacefully. After that date the Reichswehr will deal with the situation on its own.

Once again, Nigeria urges the SU to acede to the will of the people and allow them to rejoin Germany.

Once again, Nigeria urges the SU to acede to the will of the people and allow them to rejoin Germany.

Korea seconds this. We do not want another World War.

Parthini'] After that date the Reichswehr will deal with the situation on its own.

Deal with it on your own as in starting another war? How many more wars can Europe handle? How many more wars can Germany handle? Or is fighting just one of your hobbies?

Deal with it on your own as in starting another war? How many more wars can Europe handle? How many more wars can Germany handle? Or is fighting just one of your hobbies?

Korea urges the Scandinavian representative to calm himself. As it is, enough saber-rattling has been exchanged.

Deal with it on your own as in starting another war? How many more wars can Europe handle? How many more wars can Germany handle? Or is fighting just one of your hobbies?

I do not think insults will help the situation any. Or are you trying to provoke a reaction?

I think it is the Germans who are trying to provoke a reaction.

No, we are trying to provoke an action. We are demanding the land that is rightfully German by the right of Democracy which we all hold so dear.

I think it is the Germans who are trying to provoke a reaction.

Although the Pakistani delegate says nothing, he nods his head in agreement.

(OOC: The guy has realised that any more anti-German statements will probably result in Pakistan being expelled from the Commonwealth...)

Parthini']No, we are trying to provoke an action. We are demanding the land that is rightfully German by the right of Democracy which we all hold so dear.

By threatening war on my nation?

The Russian delegate would like to remind the SU delegate that the SU had more then enough time to protest the UN plebiscite. Indeed Russia's complaint and request for a peaceful solution to the issue at hand stood before the UN for over a year, more then enough time for the SU to address the issue. It was only until the SU realized things weren't going as planned did they address the issue.

By threatening war on my nation?

We are not threatening war with Scandinavia unless Scandinavia feels that it will impede the work of Democracy and German Unity!

So you are threatening war then.