NationStates Jolt Archive

ooc
the treaty that ended The 2nd Great War included as part of the treaty the provesion that China (and everyone else signing the treaty) join the League of Nations. If China did not sign the treaty, then technically China is still at war with the LTA (although a cease fire is in effect). Signing the treaty placed China in the League.

Withdrawing from the League is of course your right.

Actually, the only reason why China wanted to be independent of the League was because of that League policy of interfering with national sovereignty.

However, with the issue fixed up via vote, the anti-League sentiment in China is subsidizing somewhat, and China is now less inclined to withdraw from the League.

OoC:
Now whats the name of the most famous incident? This is going to bother me. /rambling
Senator Preston Brooks, I believe representing North Carolina, beat Senator Charles Sumner, of Massachusetts.

IC
The Union supports the motion authorizing the deployment of Peruvian and Bolivian peacekeeping forces to Bhutan under League Mandate.

OoC:
We need a flag . . .

The new Bolivian delegate (ooc:because of the recent change in government (see my thread)) "The Bolivian government will spare men as peacekeepers"

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c6/hrstrovokia/LeagueofNations.gif
More-or-less based on the original. Personally, I find it terribly dull. Good color scheme, but dull. I'll take suggestions on altering it.

I think a good ol' sickle and hammer would do mighty fine on a red backgrou...

Oh...

I think something like the UN Flag with a picture of the world with something in perhaps Latin written on the front. But the boring old LoN flag is fine with me.

Delbos casts his vote in favor of peacekeepers.

Naudé, after hearing of the Bhutanese demands, decided to speak. "We support full independence for Bhutan, but I assure our British friends that the Union of South Africa will also support any Commonwealth move to protect British and Indian nationals, as well as sovereign Indian territory."

Mr. Pimlott acknoledges Naudé's support of the Commonwealth in this matter and promises the protection of Commonwealth citizens, property and land is at the top of the government's priority list.

Bela Kun stands to address the forum for the first time since arriving.

"My fellow members, while I do not approve General Wayngdun’s methods in taking power, it seems clear to myself that however misguided he may be, he only has the best interests of his people and nation in mind.

He desires only freedom from British domination, and it seems that Britain is perhaps merely afraid of losing power in the region, no matter how small. While they claim surprise at the “sudden violence perpetuated by the Bhutanese government” they offer no support for this but General Wayngdun’s rational demand that foreign troops remove themselves from Bhutan’s borders. Britain’s motivation is that of seeking a public ‘stamp of approval’ if you will to continue to bully Bhutan into allowing British protectorate status.

I also wish to remind you that Bhutan’s new leader is a General, and is no doubt quite aware of the military consequences of removing British protectorate status and is willing to take that risk in order to free his people. I also wish to remind all of you that all of Bhutan’s neighbor’s are members of this very League and therefore subject to its rules, and more importantly, its punishments.

I urge you ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to see the Bhutanese people finally set their own path to the future, do not give a carte blanc check to the British government to bully Bhutan into protectorate status. If Bhutan wishes to remain a protectorate it must do so on its own with no outside influence or threats of violence.

Mr Pimlott addresses Mr Kun: "I am glad to see that you at least disapprove of the rise of the Bhutanese dictator to power. If he truely wanted what's best for his country then why did he not apply for his people's approval in an election process instead of snatching power?

"I must object to your description of Bhutan as being under Britain's domination. Bhutan has always been a sovereign nation free to do as it wishes. It could control it's own foreign and domestic policy and even maintain an army. Britain clearly does not seek to maintain an imperialistic empire, look no further than the recent independence of Ireland, Canada, South Africa, India and New Zealand. If Britain was seeking power through an empire then this momentous occasion would not have occured.

"You say that "Britain’s motivation is that of seeking a public ‘stamp of approval’ to bully Bhutan into allowing British protectorate status", if that were the case would the matter have been brought before this honourable league and open for debate? Britain has already stated quite categorically that she will allow Bhutan to withdraw from a protectorate status and fend for herself. However concerns about the legality of General Wayngdun's rise to power were brought before this organisation so that a peaceful and mutually beneficial result can occur. In addition several British Members of Parliament held concerns about the future prospects of Bhutan were it to abandon it's British protectors and seek to maintain it's independence in such troubled times.

Britain has no qualms with sending a multi-national peacekeeping force to Bhutan in the interests of safety, as long as a British contingent is present under the League Flag. I might suggest that present garrison there is familiar with the territory and peoples and would make a fine addition to the force.

Meanwhile whilst discussion still occurs, All British Citizens have been advised by the foreign office to leave Bhutan in case of trouble. Commonwealth nations have also received a reccomendation to advise the same. Until a solution can be found Major Carlyle of the garisson has been ordered to maintain his position in the capital and to offer sanctuary to any British or Commonwealth or LTA citizens who wish to ensure their saftey on what must be a very turbulent time for the country.

Kollontai looks sharply at Pimlott.

"I believe the Bhutanese have demanded that British troops quit their soil, yet your Government has directly ordered the garrison to hold its position? How, exactly, do you square this with your assurances that 'Bhutan has always been a sovereign nation free to do as it wishes?'

"Your hypocrisy sicken me, sir. This is nothing short of an assault on Bhutanese sovereignty. The British Empire has no legitimate authority to base its troops on the soil of any nation that does not want them - that is the very definition of 'invasion,' sir. Suppose the Union were to base a contingent of the Red Fleet in Belfast. If you protested, and we did not move, what would you call that?

"The Union cannot, and will not support the continued presence of British troops in Bhutan, under the League flag or any other."

If the people of Bhutan are capable of self-government then they have the right to govern freely, but they must allow for reason and for caution as well. Seeing that Bhutan is a independent nation, it should be helped towards a stable government gradually and with the help of the General's government and others in the Bhutanese nation. It should be up to the nation's people and a few guides to produce a stable direction for Bhutan's future.

_C. Mousiniliev, The Kingdom of Bulgaria.

The Mexican delegate looked at all the men.
" I think that Bhutan is capable of being indenpendent. But they do not need to go to extreme measures like saying they will kill any troop that does not leave their country. Also the people of Bhutan should vote to be a British protectorate or Indian protectorate or indenpendence. If they gain indenpendence the people need to vote for a new president unlike the military dicatorship they are under right now by Ugndoar Wayngdun. That so called "President" has no right to be the president and goes back to his old job of being a army general."

In response to Kollantai.

"The maintenence of the British garrison in Bhutan is only a temporary measure designed to ensure the safety of foreign citizens there and to ensure that her borders remain free and unbreached. Britain would gladly relinquish this duty to a League peacekeeping force, but as there seems to be no sign of such a force at this moment in time Britain will maintain the peace in Bhutan. But as I say, Britain will withdraw from Bhutan in accordance with her people's wishes on the condition that some sort of international force remains to ensure the security of the nation until native troops can take over defence duties. Otherwise there can be no guarantee of security for that nation."

Pimlott is glad to hear the sense in the words spoken by the Mexican delegate.

"My Mexican friend speaks sense. For this international community to allow a change of power in Bhutan and a complete withdrawal of foreign forces the Bhutanese must hold democratic elections for a re[resentative and fair government. It would be negligent of our responsibilities as world leaders to allow such a travesty of democracy to occur."

Bhutan wishes to enter the League of Nations.

Kollontai looks sharply at Pimlott.

"I believe the Bhutanese have demanded that British troops quit their soil, yet your Government has directly ordered the garrison to hold its position? How, exactly, do you square this with your assurances that 'Bhutan has always been a sovereign nation free to do as it wishes?'

"Your hypocrisy sicken me, sir. This is nothing short of an assault on Bhutanese sovereignty. The British Empire has no legitimate authority to base its troops on the soil of any nation that does not want them - that is the very definition of 'invasion,' sir. Suppose the Union were to base a contingent of the Red Fleet in Belfast. If you protested, and we did not move, what would you call that?

"The Union cannot, and will not support the continued presence of British troops in Bhutan, under the League flag or any other."

The United States delegate, former President Cox, speaks up now. "The United States however does support the temporary continued presence of British troops in Bhutan to ensure that order remains in place, and to ensure the safety of foreign nationals and the people of Bhutan. The abrupt seizure of power does not give a lot of confidence in Bhutanese leadership at this point."

Francisco Castillo Najera was pleased what to hear that Mr.Pimlott agreed with him.

"Yes we agree with Mr.Pimlott. The British need to stay in Bhutan until they have their election. They need to keep the peace for a new president to be elected. We must not let a dicator take over, but we don't need to start a war again over such a small country. It has been seven years since the end of the Second Great War. Millions have died for nothing so we should leave the British in Bhutan until after the election."

Najera sat down and waited a response for the men.

The Chinese delegate expressed nothing as he listened to the dialogue of each and every single participant in the Bhutan conflict. Once everybody spoke, he stood up for attention for what he was going to say.

"China agrees that Bhutan needs a democratically elected government. However, one major concern that China has regarding the whole Bhutan incident is that there may be rebels or insurgents that may choose to cross over into Chinese territory to raid the Chinese villages and newly built Chinese mines for resources and material. China cannot allow this.

Towards this end, China shall continue to maintain a presence along the Bhutan-Chinese border to prevent any major raiding parties from getting through and inflict grievances upon the innocent Chinese populace and workers living within reach of the Bhutanese border.

Any incursion into Chinese territory by rebels, raiders, or terrorists will not be tolerated."

The Federated States of India believes that Bhutan should not be allowed into the League of Nations until it has free and fair elections. This is not just in the interest of India, but the interest of all three Himilayan states; Nepal, Sikkim, and Bhutan. If Bhutan is controlled by a military dictatorship; who knows what will happen. Although the current leader may not be violent, he could be deposed and a more militant leader come to power; whether the people want him or not. However, we stress that we do not want any conflict in Bhutan. We are dedicated to a peaceful situation.

(OOC: Ribenia, I'm really confused over the situation with Sikkim and Bhutan. Are they MY protectorates, or YOURS. I mean, seeing how you now share no border with either of the nations, it would be a bit impractical to protect them.)

The United States delegate, former President Cox, speaks up now. "The United States however does support the temporary continued presence of British troops in Bhutan to ensure that order remains in place, and to ensure the safety of foreign nationals and the people of Bhutan. The abrupt seizure of power does not give a lot of confidence in Bhutanese leadership at this point."
"Abrupt seizure of power?" Kollontai quirks an eyebrow. "How far you've come, then, from the days of General Washington.

"In the Union's assessment of the situation, the continued presence of British troops on Bhutanese soil is clearly a destabilizing influence, not one likely to assist in the maintenance of order. Indeed, if you plan on having them stay until order is restored, that may very well result in a self-perpetuating occupation - a colonization in effect, if not in name.

"Your country claims to stand for freedom. Yet that surely must include national self-determination, and an inalienable element of self-determination is the right to form a government. It matters not what type of government, whether elections figure in it or not - that is for the people of Bhutan to decide. It is no freedom at all if the only freedom one is allowed is the freedom to do what the United States wants one to do."

OoC: Just so we're all clear, there is zero risk of war breaking out over Bhutan - the Union has its sights on a much bigger fish right now, actually.

I'm just enjoying the chance to argue heatedly over a topic of no relevance.

Titulescu nods. "I agree with my Soviet counterpart. The Bhutanese governement has requested the withdrawal of foreign troops, so it should be done. I propose that League observers and peacekeepers be sent, and an election held to insure that this leader is truly the one the Bhutanese people want."

Kun checked a note he had just recieved. "I have been authorized to offer the use of five hundred Hungarian Peace Keepers to replace the British Garrison in protecting Bhutan from outside interference and in assisting Bhutan in maintaining civil order. Hungary is also willing to send officials to oversee elections there if General Wayngdun so disires."

Pimlott is handed a note by one of his aides. "It appears that the Bhutanese Government has come to it's senses and seen what danger may sneak up upon her if she had declined British protectorate status. It would appear then that this matter is closed and should not take up any more of our precious time which could otherwise be used for more important matters. Bhutan has come to this decision with her own sovereign will and it would be remiss of this organisation to deny her that choice."

OOC NB see Bhutan thread, I quote: "China refuses to move and we want to keep Britain on our soil."

and "We do not want violence. We wish to be backed off of a little. Our British protectorates are fine and we haven't fully addressed this issue. I'd love for Bhutan to remain great friends with Britain"

Kun turned slightly towards the British delegate. "Bhutan has also accepted the Hungarian Peace Keeping Force of five hundred men to aid it in maintaining its internal security and in helping keep off any other foreign interference."

Does China even have troops near Bhutan? I thought they only had some garrisons on the coast and in a couple major cities.

Britain has never had any objection to the neutral peacekeepers and will welcome them into Bhutan. However once the Bhutanese have held fair elections as supervised by officials of this league Britain expects that these peacekeepers will leave. Until then the services and supplies of the British garrison are offered to the Hungarian commander.

OOC: To India, the protectorate status of the nations in question was never agreed as part of the deal and so remains a cloudy issue. It is probably an issue best resolved by talks with Bhutan, I have no objections to a shared protectorate but he might. At least with Britain he doesn't have to fear about being monopolised by one of his neighbours.

A good idea might be to make it a protectorate under the supervision of the Commonwealth of Nations. That way all members would be responsible for maintaining the protection of Bhutan and we could utilise your supply routes without Bhutan feeling he has sided with one of his neighbours unfairly against the other. How would you feel about this? And Malkyer? It would give the Commonwealth more respect in the international world and we could maintain a truely international garrison there composed of soldiers from all Commonwealth nations giving us all some foreign military garrison experience.

OOC: As I said before, South Africa will support the Commonwealth. If that means sending peacekeepers, I'd be happy to do so.

OOC: A commonwealth protectorate of Bhutan would be fine, but I'd like to personally take charge of Sikkim.

Chinese troops have been instructed not to cross over into Bhutanese territory, and they will remain along the border to protect the Chinese people and newly built mining complexes in the Himalayan mountains from any Bhutanese raids or depredations.

If Bhutan does not cross over into China and if the Bhutanese doesn't bring any harm aganist any Chinese citizen or infrastructure near the Bhutanese border then everything should be fine with China as we are agreeable to whatever domestic policies, resolutions, and such to take place in Bhutan as long as no harm comes to China or its people.

"Considering no Chinese live on the border with Bhutan i don't see why you are so defensive. We would like for China to remain open to Bhutan, and not do anything that would give rise to aggression."

Milosovic still wondered how the Chinese could oppress the Tibetians and then call them Chinese, none of the Chinese policy made sense to him.

"Considering no Chinese live on the border with Bhutan i don't see why you are so defensive. We would like for China to remain open to Bhutan, and not do anything that would give rise to aggression."

Milosovic still wondered how the Chinese could oppress the Tibetians and then call them Chinese, none of the Chinese policy made sense to him.

"Ah, but we have considerable resources invested in the Himalayan mountains with multiple veins of metal ore vital to China's modernization efforts. Not only that, but there are several hundred thousand Chinese citizens in the Himalayan mining sector which provides the manpower necessary to plumb the treasures of the Himalayas.

I repeat myself, China will not take any aggressive action aganist Bhutan. We are merely remaining within our borders to ensuring the security of the Chinese people within. We will not cross over into Bhutan under any circumstances whatsoever so the Bhutanese and all parties involved have no reason to be concerned.

Thank you."

ooc
take a good look at the Himalayas between Bhutan and China... its definitely the most inhospitable country in the world. Even coastal Antarctica is easier to deal with mid 20th Century technology. Most of the raw materials China is getting from the northern Himalayas are far north of Bhutan and Nepal. The area is simply too rugged.

In which case Britain officially signs over protection of Bhutan to the Commonwealth of Nations, to be protected by a unit of troops drawn from all of the Commonwealth nations.

Sikkim is hereby taken under the protection of India (you're welcome to it!) as a protectorate and will be garrisoned by troops from the Indian Army, but is to remain a free and sovereign state unless a referendum is held and the people of Sikkim agree to some other measure (ie. if they want to join the Federated States of India, which probably won't happen until later).

the United States makes the following proposals at the League of Nations
1. All Japanese forces withdraw from China and that a permanent cease fire be signed between the current government of China and Japan.
2. All foreign forces, specifically French, Turkish and Union forces, but any others as well be withdrawn from China. (ooc the defination of China is deliberately left vague).
3. That the League of Nations mediate between Rebel and Government forces in China to attempt to bring about a cease fire and peace.

OOC:

I thought Japan (and Argentina as well) refused to sign and acknowledge the League of Nations charter?

OOC:

I thought Japan (and Argentina as well) refused to sign and acknowledge the League of Nations charter?

that is correct, however, the US is trying to peacefully resolve the conflicts in China anyway.

the United States makes the following proposals at the League of Nations
1. All Japanese forces withdraw from China and that a permanent cease fire be signed between the current government of China and Japan.
2. All foreign forces, specifically French, Turkish and Union forces, but any others as well be withdrawn from China. (ooc the defination of China is deliberately left vague).
3. That the League of Nations mediate between Rebel and Government forces in China to attempt to bring about a cease fire and peace.
Philipp Scheidemann, replacing Aleksandra Kollontai (she was promoted to Foreign Minister in Kirov's Kabinet) as the Union's Ambassador to the League, raises a hand and speaks.

"The blood-drenched disaster that China's last Emperor left behind him as he fled - without even so much as a formal abdication - is unlikely to be healed swiftly, nor is it probable that it will be stopped by any deliberations in this chamber.

"However, there is merit to the American proposal. If the Japanese depart I think there will no longer be any legitimate purpose for the presence of anyone else's troops on Chinese soil. Except perhaps as peacekeepers.

"The Union will agree in principle, provided that the Japanese Army agrees to withdraw."

Scheidemann looks Cox in the eye with his characteristic hangdog yet professorial expression on his face.

"Who do you think ought to go to Tokyo?"

Japan has issued another statement, repeating what has been said earlier.

"Some nations have requested Japanese troops to leave China, in the interests of peace. We Japanese say that if China had acted responsibly following its aggression on the seas, or responsibly prior to this act of aggression, Japanese troops would not have entered China. Now that they have, they shall fight until freedom from communism has been established in all territories that can still be saved.

Japan shall not withdraw its troops from this conflict because politicians view Japan as an aggressor, an imperialist power exploiting its neighbor's weakness. Nor shall we withdraw if those politicians have armies to back them up. Japan is in for the long haul, and we shall not rest until the advance of communism is halted in China. We do not surrender."

Jozua Naudé has an aide pass a note to Cox, saying that if the American would like, Naudé will ask the government in Pretoria to use its connections with the Argentinians to apply pressure to Japan in regards to withdrawing its troops from China.

Having read the Japanese statement passed to the assembled ambassadors, Scheidemann looks up mournfully.

"I suppose we have our answer."

He brightens a moment.

"Now let's try to guess who the spy is."

OoC: Before anyone says anything, this is, of course, a joke - Scheidemann knows full well the Japanese don't need a spy to find out what's going on at League Headquarters (I can't write that with a straight face, either). This is just Scheidemann's sense of humor.

Britain supports the American movement for peace in Asia and also demands a withdrawal of Japanese troops whilst it is engaged in controlling domestic disturbances and also presses for humanitarian aid to be sent to the region perhaps under guard of a League of Nations peacekeeping force to ensure that the supplies reach the right people and do not reach the hands of the armed forces.

Titulescu storngly condemns the Japanese actions, and asks that the League step in to prevent the war from escalating further, despite the fact that Japan is not a member.

"Is this not what the league was created for gentlemen? We must either end this war through negotiation or stop the Japanese aggression against a member state by force!."

Titulescu storngly condemns the Japanese actions, and asks that the League step in to prevent the war from escalating further, despite the fact that neither Japan or China are members.

"is this not what the league was created for gentlemen? We must either stop this war through negotiation or stop the Japanese aggression by force!."

OOC:

Note bold emphasis.

China is actually a member, according to Vas.

OOC:

Note bold emphasis.

China is actually a member, according to Vas.
Really? Than we have a legal precedent for League intevention. w00t!

Titulescu storngly condemns the Japanese actions, and asks that the League step in to prevent the war from escalating further, despite the fact that Japan is not a member.

"Is this not what the league was created for gentlemen? We must either end this war through negotiation or stop the Japanese aggression against a member state by force!."
Scheidemann looks appalled at Titulescu's suggestion.

"But what of the national sovereignty that the Chinese claim to hold so dear? You can't just go around barging into other people's countries when they've not so much as asked! That would be an invasion! Why, it would make the League no better than the Japanese!"

Scheidemann looks appalled at Titulescu's suggestion.

"But what of the national sovereignty that the Chinese claim to hold so dear? You can't just go around barging into other people's countries when they've not so much as asked! That would be an invasion! Why, it would make the League no better than the Japanese!"

The Chinese delegate spoke up almost immediately.

"We have already asked for assistance. In fact, we have requested aid due to the fact that we cannot defeat the Japanese alone. The rebellions have weakened the Chinese strength so much that it cannot stand up effectively aganist the Japanese.

Therefore, China cannot survive aganist Japan if it does not acquire assistance. Colombia has pledged assistance, as well as France. Besides, Japan is clearly violating Chinese national sovereignty. Therefore, action is necessary to regain Chinese national sovereignty from the Japanese."

Titulescu nods at the Chinese delegate.

"There you have it. Gentlemen, I propose that the League form an Internation Expeditionary Force in order to combat Japanese aggression against a member state of the League of Nations. Shall we put it to a vote?"

Titulescu nods at the Chinese delegate.

"There you have it. Gentlemen, I propose that the League form an Internation Expeditionary Force in order to combat Japanese aggression against a member state of the League of Nations. Shall we put it to a vote?"

The Chinese delegate, Lu Hong, added something after Titelescu.

"I thank the Rumanian delegate for his support.

However, I would like to add a proposal of my own. I propose that once Japan is driven out, then China would like support and aid in establishing a stable democratic form of government, seeing that many members of the League of Nations has been a democratic government for some time now.

Your experience and expertise in establishing an democracy will sorely be needed after the war.

What say you?"

--------------------------------
OOC:

China is still a member of the League of Nations.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10016255&postcount=251

I never withdrew. China didn't need to withdraw from League of Nations (LoN) once the resolution passed that abolished the LoN's right to involuntarily interfere with other national sovereignty without the consent of the nation in question.

OOC: Sharina, chatzy?

Titulescu nods at the Chinese delegate.

"There you have it. Gentlemen, I propose that the League form an Internation Expeditionary Force in order to combat Japanese aggression against a member state of the League of Nations. Shall we put it to a vote?"
"Actually," says Scheidemann, stroking his beard, "the League has no power to use or authorize the use of military force against a non-member state, such as Japan. The two of you may remember the Italian Amendment to Article V - which I might add the both of you supported - that specifically confined the League's authority to its membership. The Union, of course, favored the original language, which would have empowered collective action in this case. I hope the irony is not lost on you."

"Actually," says Scheidemann, stroking his beard, "the League has no power to use or authorize the use of military force against a non-member state, such as Japan. The two of you may remember the Italian Amendment to Article V - which I might add the both of you supported - that specifically confined the League's authority to its membership. The Union, of course, favored the original language, which would have empowered collective action in this case. I hope the irony is not lost on you."

ooc
laughing a lot

IC
Former President Cox nodded after Scheidemann spoke, "It is time for the League to send a representative to Japan to see if diplomacy can end this war. Any nominations?"

"Actually," says Scheidemann, stroking his beard, "the League has no power to use or authorize the use of military force against a non-member state, such as Japan. The two of you may remember the Italian Amendment to Article V - which I might add the both of you supported - that specifically confined the League's authority to its membership. The Union, of course, favored the original language, which would have empowered collective action in this case. I hope the irony is not lost on you."

"But in this case, we are being asked to step in by a state being invaded by another. Is that not extenuating?"

ooc
laughing a lot

IC
Former President Cox nodded after Scheidemann spoke, "It is time for the League to send a representative to Japan to see if diplomacy can end this war. Any nominations?"
Scheidemann spoke.

"The Union nominates Comrade Titulescu."

Turning to face the Rumanian, Scheidemann continued.

"And if you read the Charter you will find it to be quite clear in authorizing League action solely against member states. There are no Charter provisions for 'extenuating circumstances' in my copy, at least."

"Actually," says Scheidemann, stroking his beard, "the League has no power to use or authorize the use of military force against a non-member state, such as Japan. The two of you may remember the Italian Amendment to Article V - which I might add the both of you supported - that specifically confined the League's authority to its membership. The Union, of course, favored the original language, which would have empowered collective action in this case. I hope the irony is not lost on you."

The Chinese responded.

"Ah, but once the non-member violates the sovereignty and threatens the very survival of a member who is unable to avert the crisis on its own, then action is necessary to preserve the member from being erased from existence, is it not?"

OOC: I see my ammendment had some unexpected and pleasing side effects....MWUHAHAHAHA!!!

Scheidemann blinks at the Chinese.

"Have you actually read the Charter, sir? There is, and I repeat myself, nothing in it that authorizes the use of force, by the League, against a non-member. I am very sorry for your predicament, I assure you, but there it is, codified in international law, which we are all bound to respect, though Japan is not.

"In any event, it is by no means certain that Japanese actions are, as you characterize them, violations of Chinese sovereignty, any more than any other act of war would be. Nor would it matter, and this would be equally true if the victim were the Union itself, or Great Britain, or France."

Scheidemann sighs heavily.

"I'm sorry, as I say, but the hands of the League are tied."

EDIT: Never mind.

the events in the League of Nation touch of a wave of inquiries in the US Senate regarding just how useful the League of Nations really is, and whether it is worthwhile for the United States to remain in such a flawed institution.

The Roosevelt Administration urges the American people to give the League a chance to makes things right. The fact that China doesn't have a lot of sympathy in the US, while the Japanese are somewhat admired for their performance at sea doesn't help much though. News of refugee flight and starvation will eventually change all of this, but not for a few months as newsreels begin to show the events in China on Theater screens.

John Pimlott supports the motion to send diplomatic representation to Japan to try to bring a peaceful end to this war. In the meantime it is hoped that China holds together long enough for this to remain a viable option.

Slowly fragmentary news of poor conditions in China and refugees filters throught to British newspapers. They are dismissed as too unreliable and perhaps already existent before the war to be included in any reports. The foreign news instead consists of sumamries of affairs in Asia and the workings of the League.

the Union declaration of war places even more pressure on the Roosevelt Administration concerning the League of Nations and in order to get the Selective Service Act passed Roosevelt is forced to recall former President Cox and the US delegation to the League of Nations.

The Union protests the American withdrawal as needless and unproductive. As Ambassador Scheidemann made clear, a stronger League might have been able to prevent the widening of the East Asian conflict where the present league could not.

Withdrawal will bring no positive results.

Titulescu brings forth a proposal to amend article V.

"In the case of a violent and aggressive war against a member state, the League of Nations shall have the power to raise and International Force and stop the aggression by force."

Le Duc Tho Representative for the Democratic Republic of Viet Nam stands.

"The Democratic Republic has recently been called imperialistic for its actions in moving Peace Keeping troops into Indo-China, we would like to make it clear that this is all these troops are, peace keepers requested by the rightful governments of their people.
China has also recently called upon the Vietnamese people to withdraw our support for these governments or face reprisals. Our response has been that threats will not achieve anything.
On the matter of Indo-China, we request that the Governments of Laos and Cambodia be recognized by the league of nations. Also Indo-China has long been repressed and conquered by sucsesive waves of conqurers from foreign lands. The cannot fre themselves from this cycle due to having noe economic base and no way to achieve one.
We therefore are providing defence for these countries with the RVA while political advisors are being readied to advise the currrent rulers on how best to transition to a more effective democracy than the feudal govenorships that exist already. We therfore ask that economic aid be given to these countries to prevent their people from being conqured and helping them become true nations."

The Hungarian Delegation hereby submits that the recent war in Asia has made it necessary for ‘rules of war’ to be established. To this end it calls for a convention of all nations to participate and to establish this unique document. It would be available for all nations to sign, though Hungary requests that if such a convention is created that it would binding for all League of Nations member states. It will be held in Budapest assuming that interest is shown in such a convention.

(ooc: basically calling for a Geneva Convention except in Budapest instead damn Switzerland)

EDIT: I'll create a thread later today assuming there is any interest in such a Budapest Convention.

The Hungarian Delegation hereby submits that the recent war in Asia has made it necessary for ‘rules of war’ to be established. To this end it calls for a convention of all nations to participate and to establish this unique document. It would be available for all nations to sign, though Hungary requests that if such a convention is created that it would binding for all League of Nations member states. It will be held in Budapest assuming that interest is shown in such a convention.

(ooc: basically calling for a Geneva Convention except in Budapest instead damn Switzerland)

EDIT: I'll create a thread later today assuming there is any interest in such a Budapest Convention.
The Union will take part.

The Democratic Republic will also attend

The Federated States of India will send a delegate.

China will attend. After all, China was the victim of these very atrocities that is bringing about the Budapest Convention.

Britain will send the Minister for War, Lord Halifax, to the meeting to decide whether or not to sign it.

OOC: They were always signed in Switzerland as it was a fiercely neutral nation and so could be trusted to keep the hard copy of the document safe in almost any circumstances. If such a situation doesn't arise in Hungary the document may not carry as much weight as if it were signed in a strictly neutral country.

France will also attend.

Britain will send the Minister for War, Lord Halifax, to the meeting to decide whether or not to sign it.

OOC: They were always signed in Switzerland as it was a fiercely neutral nation and so could be trusted to keep the hard copy of the document safe in almost any circumstances. If such a situation doesn't arise in Hungary the document may not carry as much weight as if it were signed in a strictly neutral country.

ooc I tend to agree with the above

IC
The US sends Secretary of War Stimson to the conference

"Me three" for signing in a more neutral country, but Australia sends R. G. Menzies to the conference.

Although the Union sees no need for yet another treaty telling nations what to do, it also does not desire to be left out of any important decision making. South Africa will send her very own State President, Charles Swart.

[ooc: The office of State President is largely ceremonial; Swart doesn't have any real power in the government]

Linkage to the Convention:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=459119

Oh, Premier Imry Nagy will be repersenting Hungary by the way.

Delegate Daniel Clark of Canada is making his way to Budapest to discuss this requirements for the League of Nations.

Titulescu brings forth a proposal to amend article V.

"In the case of a violent and aggressive war against a member state, the League of Nations shall have the power to raise and International Force and stop the aggression by force."
Scheidemann will note that the League is not, and was never intended to be, a mutual defense pact. The League was meant to provide a forum for the prevention of wars, rather than to serve as an organization that might make them more them efficient. The Union will support an amendment to return Article V to its original language, declaring the universality of League-recognized international law and empowering the League, as a last resort, to authorize the use of force in case of egregious violation.

However, if the American delegation does not return by 1 May, 1935, the Union will formally withdraw from the League, declaring it defunct.

Having contacted Washington regarding the future of the League and having received no response whatsoever (beyond the American rearmament program . . .), Scheidemann regretfully observes that the League appears to be yet another international peace treaty both created and destroyed by unilateral American action.

On 2 May, Scheidemann departs the Hague, declaring the League effectively defunct. Formally, the Sovereign People's Conciliar Union will not withdraw until 31 August [OoC: Late Friday night], to give the Americans a final chance to reconsider . . .

The US delegations returns to the League of Nations, still headed by former President Cox. The US proposes that the League place its entire support behind the discussions eliminating chemical weapons as legal weapons of war.

Titulescu promptly agrees to the US suggestion.

"We must not allow these weapons to be used again. They make the already brutal business of warfare even worse."

In the interests of promoting international peace and understanding, Ambassador Scheidemann proposes consideration of a Pan-League Student Exchange Program.

In the interests of promoting international peace and understanding, Ambassador Scheidemann proposes consideration of a Pan-League Student Exchange Program.

the US government is willing to consider that idea

Rumania would gladly be part of sucha program.
I thought Kilani was Jensai . . .

I thought Kilani was Jensai . . .


I am. Sorry about that. Rodenka and I are brothers, so we share a computer, apparently he forgot to log me out.

Okay. It looks bad, of course, but that's a convincing explanation, especially considering as I've seen you guys both on Chatzy simultaneously and your personalities are obivously different.

Okay. It looks bad, of course, but that's a convincing explanation, especially considering as I've seen you guys both on Chatzy simultaneously and your personalities are obivously different.

If you'd like, we can provide a picture to prove it.

Like I say, I trust you.

Like I say, I trust you.

Thanks. If anyone ELSE would like a picture, we can provide it.

OoC: Now you just sound like you're looking for a date.

IC

Scheidemann, pleased by the responses of the Romanian and American delegations, suggests that a pilot program be scheduled to begin between at least a select group of countries for the academic year of 1937.

He suggests that the initial group include, at the very least, the Union (of course), Romania, the United States, Denmark (an NPC likely to support the idea), the Netherlands (ditto), Peru, Ethiopia, the USEAS, and New Zealand.

Rumania would gladly support a student exchange program.

Le Duc Tho Stands,
"The USEAS would definately support the establishment of such a scheme."

Britain is already part of several student exchange programs including the Commonwealth Scholarship Scheme and the USEA Scheme. British universities would also consider letting in other students but a short period of expansion may have to occur first.

Scheidemann casually dismisses the Commonwealth student exchange program as a "tool of imperialism and cultural conquest, rather than of international brotherhood," but would allow British involvement "on a basis of equality - assuming Englishmen are capable of such an undertaking."

He's more respectful of Le Duc Tho's position, acknowledging that, while the idea had been kicked around within the Union's bureaucracy for some time, and an internal student exchange program had been implemented as far back as 1927, the idea for an international exchange program was actually given life by Xuan Nguyen, who should be recognized by the League for his (her? you can never tell with Asian names) efforts at promoting cross-cultural understanding.

"Perhaps," says Scheidemann, "some manner of formal citation might be in called for. An 'Order of Peacemaking,' or some such thing."

The Sovereign Republic of China voices its support for the proposal. China is prepared to accept foreign exchange students and send its own students overseas. This should promote better understanding of each national identity, policies, history, and tendencies so that misunderstandings will be lessened considerably. A good portion of wars have erupted from simple misunderstandings that could have been avoided.

Scheidemann casually dismisses the Commonwealth student exchange program as a "tool of imperialism and cultural conquest, rather than of international brotherhood," but would allow British involvement "on a basis of equality - assuming Englishmen are capable of such an undertaking."

He's more respectful of Le Duc Tho's position, acknowledging that, while the idea had been kicked around within the Union's bureaucracy for some time, and an internal student exchange program had been implemented as far back as 1927, the idea for an international exchange program was actually given life by Xuan Nguyen, who should be recognized by the League for his (her? you can never tell with Asian names) efforts at promoting cross-cultural understanding.

"Perhaps," says Scheidemann, "some manner of formal citation might be in called for. An 'Order of Peacemaking,' or some such thing."


OOC: If its got Nguyen in it its usually male.

OOC: If its got Nguyen in it its usually male.
Good to know.

The Kingdom of Bulgaria is willing to except the Student Exchange Program as well...we would start our program to match the other nations involved starting in September of 1937 at the latest...

In the city of Tehran, on market day, a small number of young men sneak into town equipped with automatic weapons taken from a government patrol that was wiped out. They also have homemade grenades.

They enter several movie houses and begin spraying the crowd with automatic weapons fire and throwing the grenades and then hold the buildings until police and army troops arrive and are all killed in the resulting fire fight.

Terrorism something not seen since the Assassin movement was wiped out by the Mongols in the 13th Century returnes to the Middle East.

Ambassador Scheidemann proposes a resolution defining the politically-motivated murder of noncombatants as an actionable violation of international law.

Ambassador Scheidemann proposes a resolution defining the politically-motivated murder of noncombatants as an actionable violation of international law.

The US points out that it is already illegal under the Hague and Geneva Conventions to intentionally target civilians. In any case, the murderers in this particular instance appear to not be soldiers, but simply armed civilians.

However, the US does agree that the incident was particularly disgusting.

"Who do you propose to take action against in this case anyway? The government of the MEU is certainly not the culprit, and the actual swine involved were killed. There doesn't appear to be an actual unified political leadership of the rebels in the MEU either. Who would the League be acting against? For that matter, wouldn't soldiers from other countries simply worsen the situation by awakening old traditional distrust of the West that goes back to the Crusades? Better we let the MEU try to handle it, they have the best chance of success."

Mr. Pimlott supports the US delegate and states that as both "sides" were civilian forces then this is clearly just a civil matter and best dealt with by civil Judiciaries. This is more of a tragic murder than an act of war.

Ah, the Anglo-American Axis: Supporting Terrorism since 1937.

"Excuse me, but I've something to say about this new situation in Spain."

Ambassador Scheidemann rises to address the Assembly.

"Estimable colleagues, I now have an unpleasant duty to undertake.

"It has recently come to our attention that Madrid, having suffered a quasi-Falangist takeover of its government, has sought entry into the London Treaty Alliance, in direct violation of Article 2 of the Hague Treaty (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9901626&postcount=104) - the document which, I need not remind you, established this very body. The United States, far from rejecting the Spanish overtures as the Treaty obligates them to do, has endorsed their candidacy.

"This has occurred before, of course, with both Belgium and, later, Burgundy. Warsaw did not object at that time, however, since we recognized the culpability of our own actions in the matter of those two states specifically. In the interests of respecting peace, we made allowances.

"There are no such concerns at work here.

"For the past twenty years, every initiative towards peace between the Union and the United States - cultural exchanges, diplomatic agreement, scientific coöperation - has emanated from either Moscow or Warsaw. Every threat of global war, over Morocco, over Brazil, over China, over the Middle Eastern Union, has emanated from Washington. It is ever more obvious that the American leadership has never seriously entertained the possibilty of a permanent, peaceful coexistence with the Socialist powers. And now Washington by its actions has finally succeeded in drawing an iron curtain across the globe, dividing the world's peoples into two armed and hostile camps.

"Now, as before, we see Washington casually breaking international agreements of its own design, in order, once again, to project American military power beyond their own hemisphere and into our own. It is clear that United States makes and breaks treaties at its own pleasure alone, and that Washington obviously regards itself as above international law. All of Washington's diplomatic moves have been strategic, aimed at nothing less than the continual expansion of American power until nowhere on Earth shall remain free from American economic and political subjugation. In a word, this is a bid for world domination.

"With Washington's arrogant and complete disregard for honoring international agreements having been demonstrated time and again, Warsaw has finally come to the inescapable conclusion that any continuation of diplomatic relations with the present American leadership would simply be a farce. It is not our choice - we have made numerous attempts to further the cause of peace and coöperation between the Union and the United States. Washington has responded only listlessly, when they have bothered to respond at all. Even the most dedicated optimist may tire of seeing their hopes so consistently abused.

"Estimable colleagues, the Union is tired. Our trust has never been reciprocated, and our efforts to secure peace have only met with ever-increasing demands being placed upon us. The Americans say that we cannot even support the legitimately-elected government of our own ally and neighbor in Damascus without "threatening" American "critical interests." We acceded to their bellicose demands for the sake of world peace, but we must ask: Is it even imaginable that Warsaw might say the same about a crisis in Mexico or Canada? This is American hypocrisy of the highest order, and Warsaw has resolved to tolerate it no longer.

"Let Washington respond as it will. The Hague Treaty is defunct, this body is defunct, and our hopes for peace have died.

"May we meet again in a better world."

Scheidemann bows stiffly to the Assembly, then turns his back and departs, never to return.

Delbos stands and applauds the speech made by Scheidemann before stepping forward in front of the assembly. He has his own speech to make.

"Friends, I come before you with a heavy heart today. It is with great sadness and regret that I must announce France's withdrawal from this League. France has always believed in the domiance of peace and civil justice for all, regardless of their caste or place in the world. Almost one hundred and fifty years ago the peasants of France overthrew the French monarchy in a bid for social justice. Now, we must withdraw from the League in a similar bid. As the esteemed Mr. Scheidemann has said, America has only sought to dominate the world. Only a few years ago, when France petitioned for re-entry into the Warsaw Pact, the United States used the same treaty they are now blatantly violating to prevent us from joining in a defensive alliance with our friends in Eastern Europe. Now they have the gall to finally surround France by an alliance of nations that, in the event of war between Warsaw and Washington, could destroy France's neutrality.

"As such, I have been authroized to announce that France will be petitioning Warsaw for re-entry into the Warsaw Pact in order to keep ourselves from being surrounded by potential enemies. Gentlemen, I fear that world is entering a dark time. One that shall last years. Let us hope that the true champions of freedom and social justice prevail. Thank you."

Delbos bows to the assembly, makes some private good-byes to some of the other delegates, and then departs for France.

Vladimir Milosovic now stands, whispering a farewell to Delbos as he leaves. He takes the podium.
"My friends, let it be said that today is a grave day, and yet a learning experiance. As my friend Delbos said, this heralds a dark time, and it pains me to see that Spain is the cause of more heartache for the hopeful. The idea that this body was founded on, world peace by any means was a noble one, and one that i am sad to see falter, but it has been faltering since the beginning. This half hearted attempt at a peaceful forum for man, has turned into a hypocritical, ineffective mockery of what it was mean to be. Peace by any means? It is more like peace if it is convenient.


It is with a heavy heart that i say good bye to all of you great men, that our parent nations have sent with good intentions, but it comes to an end, as the ones with the worst of all intentions have destroyed our ideals, and leave us with the wise for a better future. Socialist, or Conservative; Catholic or Protestant; Soldier or Diplomat, i think everyone can respect that. Good bye and good day my friends."

With that Milosovic leaves the League of Nations

Titulescu shakes hands with Delbos and Milsovic before they leave, whispering good-byes and good lucks. He stands after Milsovic leaves the floor.

"Gentlemen, it has been an honor to serve in this great experiment of a League with you. Unfortunately, the experment seems to have failed. I shall be following the example of my esteemed Comrades and withdrawing. I must say that it is a dissapointment that the London Treaty Alliance feels that it can violate it's own documents, but expect others to follow them. Good bye, and good luck to all of you."

Titulescu nods to the other delegates bfeore taking his leave.

With the departure of all the other members of the Warsaw Pact, Bela Kun will also rise and give a violent speech full of fiery invective directed at the London Treaty Allies and their "warmongering hypocritical racialist world order," eventually banging his shoe on the table while shouting "we will bury you!"

This attracts the attention of the sergeant-at-arms, but Ambassador Kun turns on his heel and departs under his own power.

With the departure of all the other members of the Warsaw Pact, Bela Kun will also rise and give a violent speech full of fiery invective directed at the London Treaty Allies and their "warmongering hypocritical racialist world order," eventually banging his shoe on the table while shouting "we will bury you!"

This attracts the attention of the sergeant-at-arms, but Ambassador Kun turns on his heel and departs under his own power.

[OOC: ROFL]

With the departure of all the other members of the Warsaw Pact, Bela Kun will also rise and give a violent speech full of fiery invective directed at the London Treaty Allies and their "warmongering hypocritical racialist world order," eventually banging his shoe on the table while shouting "we will bury you!"

This attracts the attention of the sergeant-at-arms, but Ambassador Kun turns on his heel and departs under his own power.

OOC: LOL....that's classic..

With the departure of all the other members of the Warsaw Pact, Bela Kun will also rise and give a violent speech full of fiery invective directed at the London Treaty Allies and their "warmongering hypocritical racialist world order," eventually banging his shoe on the table while shouting "we will bury you!"

This attracts the attention of the sergeant-at-arms, but Ambassador Kun turns on his heel and departs under his own power.

ooc: probably the one of the funniest things I've heard all day

I am sorry for wasting your time, but it has come to me that things have falling to pieces with this organization, but I feel even more committed to our ideal than anyone could imagine only 10 years ago when we all signed the Charter and made our commitment to the welfare of humanity that can never be severed by horribly disasterous political policies, half-hearted beliefs, petty bickering between others or by intolerance... The ideal needs to be the same, but it needs a different nature to be successful...
_Constantin Mousilinev - Bulgarian Delegate to the League of Nations General Assembly (June 17, 1938)

I am sorry for wasting your time, but it has come to me that things have falling to pieces with this organization, but I feel even more committed to our ideal than anyone could imagine only 10 years ago when we all signed the Charter and made our commitment to the welfare of humanity that can never be severed by horribly disasterous political policies, half-hearted beliefs, petty bickering between others or by intolerance... The ideal needs to be the same, but it needs a different nature to be successful...
_Constantin Mousilinev - Bulgarian Delegate to the League of Nations General Assembly (June 17, 1938)
Noble sentiments, really. We should all be ashamed of ourselves.

China strongly urges all parties to stay with the Hague Convention, namely the banning of biological and chemical weapons in warfare and aganist civilian targets.

Jozua François Naudé has been recalled to Pretoria; he has been appointed Staatspresident following Jan Smuts' election to the post of Prime Minister. He will not be replaced until some decision has been made regarding the League's future.

I am still here to support it as much as China or anyone else even if it is not in this forum... maybe there is still a chance to revive the World in a new and a different way than in the past decades or in the past few centuries...

I am still here to support it as much as China or anyone else even if it is not in this forum... maybe there is still a chance to revive the World in a new and a different way than in the past decades or in the past few centuries...

I'd say give it a couple decades to clear all the radiation. After that, world peace probably has a chance.

Parthini']I'd say give it a couple decades to clear all the radiation. After that, world peace probably has a chance.

OOC: Nah their only getting rid of it because the leauge of nations as a name sucks and we wnt the united nations which is a better name to take over:D

Parthini']I'd say give it a couple decades to clear all the radiation. After that, world peace probably has a chance.

ooc
atomic weapons are low yield, I wouldn't be that pessemistic

and I have plans for the League of Nations shortly (evil grin)

ooc
atomic weapons are low yield, I wouldn't be that pessemistic

and I have plans for the League of Nations shortly (evil grin)

You mean an overly beaurocratic, corrupt waste of space, that just gets in the way of things?

NEVER!