NationStates Jolt Archive

The following may be of some use for players of the above RP. This list is updated whenever any major territory changes occur. The original data was taken from a map printed on pages 142-143 of The Times History of War (2000 Edition). This list is by no means difinitive and will undoubtedly contain some errors. If you have research that contradicts mine please contact me and i'll change it.

Britain:

Cameroon
Tanzania
Chad
Central African Republic
Congo
Gabon
Madeira
Christmas Island
British Honduras
British Guiana
Gambia
Sierra Leone
Gold Coast
Nigeria
Rhodesia
Sudan
Suez Region
Port Said
British Somaliland
Oman
Kuwait
Aden
Burma
Malaya
Sarawak
Brunei
North Borneo
Jamaica
Gibraltar
Ceylon
Malta
Cyprus
New Hebrides
Maldive Islands
Eritrea
Afghanistan
Western Samoa
Chatham Islands
Kermadec Islands
Soloman Islands
Vanatu Islands
Tuvalu Islands
Fiji Islands
Tonga Islands
Nive Island
Tokelau Islands
Phoenix Islands
Gilbert Islands
Cook Islands
Line Islands
Christmas Island Chain
Pitcairn Islands
American Samoa
Palau
Naura
South Aden
Reunion
Mauritius
British Antartic Territory: all land between and sea lower than 60° Longitude and between 20°W and 80°W latitude converging on the South Pole

India (Commonweath)

India
Modern Pakistan

Canada (Commonwealth)

Mainland Canada
Newfoundland
Northern Canadian Islands

New Zealand (Commonwealth)

Both New Zealand islands
New Zealand Antartic Territory: All land and sea beneath 60° longitude and between 150°W to 160°E latitude.

South Africa (Commonwealth)

Cape Colony (province)
Basutoland (Colonial Trust Territory)
Natal (province)
Buchanoland (Colonial Trust Territory)
German South West Africa (province)
Swaziland (Protectorate)
Madagascar (protectorate)

Australia (Commonwealth):

Mainland Australia
Bismark Archipelago
Kaiser Wilhelm's Land
Papua
Lord Howe Island
Norfolk Island
Tasmania
Coral Sea Islands
Ashmore and Cartier Islands
New Caledonia
Spratly Islands
Wallis and Futuna Islands
Comoros
New Caledonia
Santa Cruz Islands
Australian Antartic Territory: All land and sea beneath 60° longitude and between 160°W to 45°W latitude.

France:

French West Africa
Martinique
Guadualupe

Netherlands:

Dutch East Indies
Dutch Guiana

Ottoman Empire:

Syria
Yemen
Palestine
Iraq
Arabia
Nejd
Persia
North Aden

Italy:

Tripolitania (Libya)
Djibouti
Tunisia

Portugal:

Portugese East Africa
Port Timor
Goa (India)
East Timor
Cape Verde Islands
Azores Islands
Portuguese Guinea

Spain:

Rio De Oro
Ifni
Spanish Guinea (Part of Cameroon)

China:

Mongolia
Laos
Cambodia
Tibet

USA:

Alaska
Hawaii
Clipperton Island
French Polynesia
Canary Islands (client state)
Southern Marianas Islands
American Samoa
Wake Island (dependecy)
Midway Island (dependency)
Johnston Island (dependency)
Guam
Puerto Rico
Liberia (under US government protection)
Nicaruaga and (recieves substantial government subsidies for Panama)
Caroline and Marshal Islands
French Polynesia
Northern Marianas Islands
Kingman Reef
Palmyra Atoll
Jarvis Island
Howland Island
Baker Island
Danish Virgin Islands
Faroe Islands

Belgium:

Belgian Congo

Japan:

Formosa
Kuril Islands
Taiwan (Formosa)
Sakhalin islands
Marcus Island
Hanian Dao

Warsaw Pact/Union:

Russia + associated territories (eg. Kazachstan, Ukraine etc.)
Germany
Poland
Azores and Madiera
Austria
Denmark
Finland
Arctic claim (widely disputed and not recognised by any international treaty)

Romania:

Transylvania
Southern Dobruja
Moldova

Colombia:

Panama
French Guiana
Syracuse
Venezuela

Norway:

Spitsbergen

Argentina:

Falkland Islands (Marianas Islands)

Gran Colombia:

Colombia
Venezuela
French Guyana


Main Map

The above list has been compiled into a map at the below link, this will be updated as and when the territories change.

MAP [JPG FILE], correct as of mid 1935 (http://files.photojerk.com/dumelow/map.JPG)

Other Maps

South Pacific area (http://files.photojerk.com/dumelow/spacmap.JPG). (Territories are encircled by country colour, correct as of 1922)

Asia Map (Maintained by Ato-Sara) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/lazyjim/AsiaE20.png)

Ottoman Empire: Palestine

Ah of course Palestine and what is now Israel were in the Ottoman Empire, my map doesn't name them individually but just as western Arabia. I'll change that now. Thanks for informing me.

Belgium- Belgian Congo

Sorry I missed Belgium off entirely.

Added Belgian Congo and Portugeuse Port Timor whcih I also overlooked.

Didn't Czarist Russia control all the land that the U.S.S.R controlled?

I was trying to keep it to overseas territories, but Russia is extremely large and could do with some defining. I know they control all the land from Poland to The Pacific and from Finland and the Arctic Sea down to China, Persia and Afghanistan but wasn't clear on exact area names. I'll make an edit saying basically that but can leave it to you and your neighbours to sort out exact boundaries from further research.

You left out French Somaliland, aka Djibouti. The part of Cameroon that Spain controlled, was called Spanish Guinea, but that's just a picky detail. Otherwise, this list is very helpful. Good work.

You left out French Somaliland, aka Djibouti. The part of Cameroon that Spain controlled, was called Spanish Guinea, but that's just a picky detail. Otherwise, this list is very helpful. Good work.

Thanks Malkyer, I added French Somaliand and changed the name of Spanish Cameroon (I knew it had a proper name but couldn't remember it!). Thanks for the help, i'm glad you found it useful.

Don't forget that Britain has control of the Faulklan Islands, though Argentina claims them as theirs.

corrected US possesions 1900

Alaska (Territory)
Hawaii (Territory)
American Samoa (Territory)
Wake Island (dependecy)
Midway Island (dependency)
Johnston Island (dependency)
a couple of other smaller islands relatively close to Hawaii

Guam (Territory)
Philippines (Territory, currently a war zone)

Puerto Rico (territory)
American Virgin Islands (recently purchased from Denmark) (territory)

Cuba (under US military occupation, although the US is looking to leave soon once some things are settled)

Liberia in Africa is under US government protection

Nicaruaga receives substantial US subsidies as does Colombia (for Panama)

The US is currently conducting thorough examinations of both Nicauraga and Panama in order to develop plans for a canal. UK money is involved and the US and Great Britain have worked out an informal arrangement.

Thanks Manarth, I forgot all about the Falklands.

Thanks as well to Galveston Bay, my US history is foggy so i'm glad you pointed out some omissions.

UPDATED

France:
New Caledonia
part of New Hebrides(split with England)
Reunion
Maritus
Comoros

Thanks Safehaven2, I've added your France entries and put the New Hebrides in Britain as well.

Anymore entries guys? I could use help with the smaller islands, if your nation or another that you know of owns some let me know and i'll add them.

Just had a thought, it shouldn't be too difficult to update this thread as the RP progresses and territory changes hands, and keep it as a reference thread so let me know here or by TG if you capture or lose any.

What about French Polynesia? Is that Still Open?

Oh yeah,

japan

Formosa

What about French Polynesia? Is that Still Open?

according to Wiki it was founded in 1946, so yeah it's still open

Galveston Bay here.....

French Polynesia being open depends on what you define as open. It belongs to France in 1900. Other portions of Polynesia belong to Great Britian and while the other Polynesian settled islands... Hawaii (USA), and Easter Island (Chile).

A modern day map will work for that purpose. The French still own everything they owned in 1900, while Australia, New Zealand and the US pretty much own everything they owned then, or those islands that are independent remain quasi dependencies of either New Zealand, Australia or the US with the exception of Fiji.

Germany, incidently, owns New Ireland and its surrounding islands, northern Papau, and part of Samoa. The US has American Samoa as well.

Not that there is a lot of European or American settlement or presence as the disease death rate is rather frightful.

OK, thanks of the council of clan, i'll add a Japanese section immediately.

The Ottoman Empire by 1900s had the following lands under its rule

For the Balkans we still had most of the southern Balkans by 1900, also here is a map of the Ottomans around 1900

http://www.worldstatesmen.org/Ottoman.jpg

Plus a writer note The British never truelly own Egypt intill 1914, before this time Britian only had a protectorate over Egypt, it was still part of the Ottoman Empire under viceroy rule.

Yes technically Egypt is still nominally part of the Ottoman Empire though Britain has controlled the government since 1882. I'll put it down as a protectorate.

Thanks for the map, i'll update the lists shortly.

Just one more thing,by looking at the map, I own Northern Greece, Southern Serbia, plus the regions of Arabia know as Hejaz and El Hasa.

The Balkan War of 1912, which the Italians also use as an opportunity, results in Turkey losing all of that plus Libya. I don't see how that can be prevented short of Great Power intervention. It does bring down the Ottomons though, which no one really morns.

The US by the way is not going to be instituting the Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine or the Platt Amendment. Instead the "Good Neighbor Policy" will come about much earlier as President McKinley is not shot at the Hemispheric Fair in Buffalo New York in 1901. Meaning Teddy has to wait until 1904 to run for President. However some of his domestic policies still go into effect as the Progressives had leaders besides him.

McKinley, the last Civil War combat veteran elected to the Presidency, isn't as aggressive as Teddy will be, and I suspect Teddy will have other fish to fry based on whats happening in the RP so far.

The Balkan War of 1912, which the Italians also use as an opportunity, results in Turkey losing all of that plus Libya. I don't see how that can be prevented short of Great Power intervention. It does bring down the Ottomons though, which no one really morns.

The US by the way is not going to be instituting the Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine or the Platt Amendment. Instead the "Good Neighbor Policy" will come about much earlier as President McKinley is not shot at the Hemispheric Fair in Buffalo New York in 1901. Meaning Teddy has to wait until 1904 to run for President. However some of his domestic policies still go into effect as the Progressives had leaders besides him.

McKinley, the last Civil War combat veteran elected to the Presidency, isn't as aggressive as Teddy will be, and I suspect Teddy will have other fish to fry based on whats happening in the RP so far.\

Well we will see if this time...the results of the Balkan war of 1912, change..or never happen...note self...starting reforming like there is no tomorrow..

Just one more thing,by looking at the map, I own Northern Greece, Southern Serbia, plus the regions of Arabia know as Hejaz and El Hasa.

OK I'll add them on as well.

Minor Update:

De-autonimised Bulgaria as per the Ottomans' decision

Another small update,

Cuba is now independant from the USA

OOC:

I need clarification on what independent states are in Asia in 1902 after all the E20 RP's are taken into account. I know that Korea is one, but what about Thailand, Mongolia, Cambodia, etc?

Mongolia is under Chinese rule (and was, historically until 1911).
Siam (Thailand) was independant, though was heavily dependant upon the British and was classed as part of an "Informal British Empire".
Malaya was likewise independant but heavily British influenced.
Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia were all part of French Indo-China and under French control.
Sarawak (West Malaya) is ruled by British governers.
Brunei is a British Protectorate
North Borneo is a British Protectorate
The Phillipenes are under US occupation
The East Indies are ruled by the Dutch

There are not many independant states left in asia (or indeed the world)

Thanks, LR.

Am I correct in assuming that Mongolia became independent in 1911 because of the decay of the Manchu Dynasty and the failures of Empress Cixi?

I think so, people that far from Shanghai and Peking were disillusioned with teh Chinese government and so decided to break away. So Mongolia might survive under Emperor Tuan.

In 1911 only Outer Mongolia managed to break away anyway (with Russian help) so Inner Mongolia still belonged to China. Mongolia was retaken in 1919 but the Chinese were again forced out in 1921 when Red and White Russians began fighting each other there in the Russian Civil War. In 1924 it was proclaimed as a seperate country (Mongolian People's Republic) though heavily "Russianised". Mongolian armies threatened China in 1945 and were eventually officially recognised by the Chinese when 100% of Mongolians voted for independence.

So generally a lot of swinging between China and Russia in the first half of the century followed by independence in the second. A lot of which may not happen depending on Tuan's grip of the country, his reforms and foreign affairs with Russia.

Thanks once again LR.

Do you think you could switch Korea to Mongolia, seeing that Korea is being RP'ed by Fluffywuffy and not me.

I don't know how I managed to put Korea up on that list, very strange. Anyway i'll change it, thanks for the help.

I got yet another question for ya. :p

What is the status of Manchuria? Its under lease to Russia, and Russia owns railroads in it, but it is actually Chinese territory (I believe). I think we should add a new category to the list... "Disputed Claims" where more than one nation has a claim over land. Also that would be great to put lands under invasion or revolt in.

For example, Phillipines, South Africa (Boer War), etc.

Peraining to Manchuria:

Outer Manchurua was ceded to the Russians as part of the 1860 Peking Convention (Resulting from the Second Opium War). Inner Manchuria is still technically part of China (I think) and though it is heavily Russian influenced still holds nominal allegience to China.

I'll change the list in a bit to have details of disputes on, for now though I need some food.

Peraining to Manchuria:

Outer Manchurua was ceded to the Russians as part of the 1860 Peking Convention (Resulting from the Second Opium War). Inner Manchuria is still technically part of China (I think) and though it is heavily Russian influenced still holds nominal allegience to China.

I'll change the list in a bit to have details of disputes on, for now though I need some food.

actually, Russia has Outer Mongolia, while Inner Mongolia is part of China. Manchuria is a region that consists of several proviences. The Russians have rights to the railroad they are building, control several cities by de facto occupation, but Manchuria is still technically part of China at this point and continues to be until 1931 (historically) when the Japanese annexed it.

Most of the Amur River valley, in Siberia, was Chinese until the Russians took it.

The stuff I found on the treaty of Peking states that:

The Convention of Peking (October 18, 1860), also known as the First Convention of Peking, was a treaty between the Qing Government of China and the British Empire, and between China and France, and China and Russia.

Article 6 of the Convention between China and the the United Kingdom stipulates that China was to cede a part of the Kowloon Peninsula, south of the present day Boundary Street, Hong Kong, and including the Stonecutters Island, in perpetuity to the UK.

A part of the treaty ceded parts of Outer Manchuria to the Russian Empire. It granted Russia the right to the Ussuri krai, a part of the modern day Primorye), the territory of which corresponds with the one of ancient Manchu province of East Tartary.

The Convention was signed as a result of the Second Opium War under the military and diplomatic pressures of British and French troops (which were burning the Old Summer Palace at the time). It was considered to be one of the unequal treaties by the Chinese side.


So I assumed Outer Manchuria was ceded to the Russians, but maybe only part of it was...

Maldives islands? Part of India or controlled by someone else?

Technically an independant Islamic Sultanate, ie. is ruled over by an Ottoman style Sultan, but has been a British Protectorate since 1887.

I'll add it to my list...

Oh and if anyone wants to post any disputed territories I'll make a list of them and include it in the first post. Credits to Sharina for the Idea.

claims on hungary (austro-hungarian empire):
Transelvania (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Image:Transylvania.png)

On Bulgaria: Southern Dobruja
-In yellow-
(http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Image:Dobrogea_cadrilater.png)

On russia:
Bessarabia (Modern Moldavia and a part of ukraine)
found only an old map (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bessarabia.png)

Updated British, Italian and Ottoman territories according to this thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9345133)

and will change lists according to Abbassia's maps.

Can you add Brazil on the map. any color will do. thanxs :)

OK Zeeeland will do, expect it up shortly.

you might want to add any chinese owned Islands are now Japanese(treaty agreement with china) that needs fixed on the map.

Righto, I will include that in the next upload of the map.

Looking at Wikipedia, I noticed that the US Virgin Islands still belong to the Danes. Historically, the US made an offer in 1902 , but the Danes didn't accept. In 1917, however, not wanting them to fall into German hands, should Germany occupy Denmark, the US bought them from the Danes. So unless you snuck something by, they should still be in the hands of Denmark, if they're playing.

your right.... confirmed by CIA factbook

so for now they are Danish, however, German attempts to buy them will result in American pressure on Denmark, and more money thrown at them. The US has already let slide the intervention in Venezuela, and that violates the Monroe Doctrine, Germany (or any other European power for that matter) attempting to get the Virgin Islands, or other territory in the area is going to inflame things...

I will need one of the other mods to make a ruling as to what happens next...

Oh, I knew that. I've been researching that dear little doctrine all I can to see how much I can get by with :D

Apparently, the drunkard General added something where it is illegal for Europeans to buy territories in the Americas. Imperialists... :gundge:

Ok i'll switch them to Danish owned territory then.

I think Germany had the Marianas and Western Samoa at this time, they were bought from Spain just after the Spanish american war.

The Northern Marianas were sold to the Germans after the Spanish American War (1898) whilst the Southern islands were given to the US. A similar situation occured in Samoa with the Germans buying Western Somoa and the Americans getting the Eastern part.

I'll update both lists.

I didn't see Hong Kong under British Rule since didn't Britian have Hong Kong right up to the turn of the centurary? Also should the Rhineland and/or the Sutenland be put as protectorets of Germany or not? Since the Sutenland or was it Sudenland? was not occupied until 1939 but enleast put the Rhineland. Also should Christmas Island it with the land be put under British Colony? Not THAT important but..... Also the islands right above japan the whatever islands controlled by mostly Russia now should you put that under disputed territories since there has been alot of conflict around that chain. If not you should techincally put it with Russia since Russian had it till the turn of the 1900s.

Right,

Hong Kong can be added since the British had it on loan for 99 years from 1898.

Rhineland is technically still part of Germany proper and wasn't split off until after WWI so it doesn't need to be added as it is not a foreign posession.

Sudetenland at this time was part of Bohemia which, in turn, was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. It was not disputed over until the rise of Hitler.

Christmas Island should be on the list as it was annexed by the British Crown in June 1888.

As to the islands above Japan (Sakhalin islands?) I will put them all under Russia for now as the disputes over ownership of them occured during the Russo-Japanese War which has not yet occured in this timeline, so the disputes have not yet been raised.

Thanks for the help Moorington, i'll update the list shortly.

Are you a member of the E20 RP? If not you should try joining up. There are still many important countries to be had and you seem to have quite a good knowledge of the era.

I am going with Germany and I hope I can do better against the Brits then the real Germany. Also, thank you for the invatation and obviously accept. One more thing, how about you put Singapore with the british since it was Fort State of the british. Now what about Taiwan? Are you going to do anything about it or is it just going too be considered part of China. And finally what about Crete? It could easly do to Britain, Ottoman Empire or Italy.... And what nation controlls Tunasia or does no one control it yet? Then comes New Zealand, should it be part of Australia? The comes thw whole thing of Tanzania, I am wondering if it should be a colony of Australia. And how will the British-Aussie thing work out? Are they going to be like forced teams? I am happy to say that you have kept up at editing the orignal colonies quite well and I am happy to say it has been a pleasure filled time at this thread....Anyhow when do the people finally pick their nation? And finally the last and least, should there be control of more like locations then just territories? Like Mt.Everest and the Sea of Japan/China.

*cough*

Well, umm... we already have like 2 Germanies. I'm supposed to be the "caretaker" of the Empire until Aequatio comes back (if ever). So, umm... look at the list here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=424002&page=1&pp=15)

I think Argentina bowed out, so it's also open.

And about the Sudenland thing: Bismark wanted to keep the Sudetenland with the Austro-Hungarians so that he could keep all the Liberals and Socialists out of the Empire. That was also a reason why Germany allied with Austria-Hungary, so they wouldn't have to annex the commies.

How about I try to commence a autocracy coup in the Bismark Archipelogo? Or maybe be in charge of Denmark? Well I will think and if no one picks Denmark I will go and be the leader.

I don't think anyone has Denmark at the moment and they are quite influential and powerful with a lot of territory so Denmark would probably be a good choice. Just make a post on the main thread expressing an interest and then make a starting post/news thread and begin RPing.

Which is.....

Oh sorry, here's the link: ALT HISTORY 1900-2000 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=424002&highlight=1900-2000)

Updated the map for 1904, all the suggestions have been added and the Anglo-Germanic Alliance is taken into account.

You forgot the Marianas Islands and Samoa. Those should have been part of the agreement to give to you.

Ah thanks for reminding me. I'll get that changed!

a request for clarification.... does this mean that the British now own Saipan, Tinian, and Rota? (Northern Marianas islands previously held by Spain, then Germany)

The US government is willing to trade its portion of Samoa for those islands if that is the case (to Britain)

should I assume the Germans still retain control over the Caroline and Marshal Islands?

God... I had a crapload of little islands in the Pacific.

Technically, those weren't part of the agreement. Does likkle Emperor Teddy want ;)

Parthini']God... I had a crapload of little islands in the Pacific.

Technically, those weren't part of the agreement. Does likkle Emperor Teddy want ;)

Teddy isn't President yet....lol... its an election year, and McKinley wasn't shot in this timeline.

lol... I guess they're German for a little while, still.

BTW, do the Portuguese still own the Azores and Madiera?

Parthini']lol... I guess they're German for a little while, still.

BTW, do the Portuguese still own the Azores and Madiera?

yes, along with Macao, Goa (India), East Timor, Angola, and Mozambique, actually a fairly large empire considering how weak they are

Right, will add additional Portuguese territories to the list.

In regards to American Samoa and a swap for the Northern Marianas, the British government is interested but would like something else out of the deal as well (N. Marianas=477km/\2 and American Samoa=199km/\2) also the Northern Marianas Islands are strategically located as a defensive island chain for the Pacific. Maybe the Americans can supply an additional incentive for a territory swap?

what incentive are you looking for? The Americans don't really have territory they can throw in, but have lots of money, so figure about $10 million (enough for a squadron of dreadnoughts in other words)

Wow... that's a lot different that some estimates I've seen... Someone was selling some crusiers and crappy battleships for like $50 Mil.

(Secret OOC: how many is a squadron >.<)

a squadron of dreadnoughts or pre dreadnoughts would be 4 - 5 ships (depending)

cost of a Dreadnought is about 2 Million pounds in 1914
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Agincourt_%281913%29

so my figures are correct, the purchasers elsewhere got taken (chuckle)

Ouch. lol.

$10 mil or Puerto Rico ;)

IC: The German Empire, now no longer seeing the Pacific as useful, hereby agrees to sell the Caroline and Marshal Islands to the Americans for the agreed price of $10 Million. Hopefully, this will usher in a new era of peace and respect between the United States and Germany! :fluffle:

Parthini']Ouch. lol.

$10 mil or Puerto Rico ;)

IC: The German Empire, now no longer seeing the Pacific as useful, hereby agrees to sell the Caroline and Marshal Islands to the Americans for the agreed price of $10 Million. Hopefully, this will usher in a new era of peace and respect between the United States and Germany! :fluffle:

The US Government leaps on the offer, throws in a couple of million extra (12 million)...

ooc
the Agincourt by the way, cited above, was a super dreadnought, a lot bigger and badder than the original Dreadnought. Although a Pound in 1905 was probably worth 3 US dollars, or more German Marks, but hey, its still a good deal, should allow the Germans to build the equivilant of a squadron without too much trouble.

hey Cape verde islands are portuguese too....

Venezuela is a German Protectorate and Madiera and the Azores were bought by the Germans.

I am going with Germany and I hope I can do better against the Brits then the real Germany. Also, thank you for the invatation and obviously accept. One more thing, how about you put Singapore with the british since it was Fort State of the british. Now what about Taiwan? Are you going to do anything about it or is it just going too be considered part of China. And finally what about Crete? It could easly do to Britain, Ottoman Empire or Italy.... And what nation controlls Tunasia or does no one control it yet? Then comes New Zealand, should it be part of Australia? The comes thw whole thing of Tanzania, I am wondering if it should be a colony of Australia. And how will the British-Aussie thing work out? Are they going to be like forced teams? I am happy to say that you have kept up at editing the orignal colonies quite well and I am happy to say it has been a pleasure filled time at this thread....Anyhow when do the people finally pick their nation? And finally the last and least, should there be control of more like locations then just territories? Like Mt.Everest and the Sea of Japan/China.

japan got tawain(formosa) in the Sino Japanese War, and due to recent treaties, control any formally chinese controlled islands.

hey can someone add this map to the beginingof earth 20 thread. it will be a lot handier :)

Alright so far, I have conquer Nejd, just petty much taking all the lands that make up Present Day Saudi Arabia,could someone update my claims now.

As being Denmark how much money do I have? Like a little or alot? If alot I will happily buy any islands of anyone in the Carribian....

According to the Monroe Doctrine it's illegal for Euopeans to buy each other's lands.

Parthini']According to the Monroe Doctrine it's illegal for Euopeans to buy each other's lands.


Monroe doctorine not being really binding if The US doesn't want to make a fuss about it. That and an Occupation of All of Venezuela is a tad more of a breach than buying a few islands.

ooc
see the main thread for my take on Danish decisions

Sheesh... Damned Americans...

Did you know, Boston, at the time of the Revolution, was the richest place in the world. *shakes head*

Ok here it is, I have conquer Persia. So please update my holdings when you can do it.

ooc
Parthini, umm, what???

Ottoman, you will complete the conquest of Persia by the end of 1905 (today that is), although it will take what I indicated to hold it down. Are you really, really sure you want to invade Afghanistan??

ooc
Parthini, umm, what???

Ottoman, you will complete the conquest of Persia by the end of 1905 (today that is), although it will take what I indicated to hold it down. Are you really, really sure you want to invade Afghanistan??
Well with the war with Italy and Austria, I am going to delay that for sometime, maybe in the 1920s I would do that. so for now its not going to happen.

I was referring to the greediness of Americans (being one myself). I read in 1776, that Boston, during the time of the Revolutionary war, was the richest area in the world. It was just a snide comment :)

OOC: I want to point out that Hainan Dao belongs to Japan, and I was wondering if the Spratly Islands belonged to china, if they did they are Japanese now. I'm just trying to get clarification.

Well with the war with Italy and Austria, I am going to delay that for sometime, maybe in the 1920s I would do that. so for now its not going to happen.

If your still alive.... :mp5: :sniper: :gundge:
Dang pro-warist..... ;)

Guys, just back after missing a week of NS, sorry about that. No time to update the possessions list or map yet but will hopefully be able to do so by tomorrow.

Is there any moderators which can tell me what my GDP is and more importantly how much comes from the virgin islands &/or greenland.

Is there any moderators which can tell me what my GDP is and more importantly how much comes from the virgin islands &/or greenland.

Galveston bay here... of the top of my head, I would say Greenland is valuable because of the lucrative fishing, sealing and whaling grounds of the period, while the Virgin Islands are a sink hole you throw money into. According to sources. As far as actual GDP goes? Not sure the exact amount, you can probably find it as quickly (or not) as I, but its not in the top 12 industrial nations I do know that much.

I wouldn't sell them quite yet since they will be valuable to me later with the whole discovery of aircraft and that I can make it as a port for the couple of players there who have investments in and around Venazuala...cough...cough South America and North America. :cool:

Kuril Islands, The Island of Sakhalin now belong to Japan

When did this happen?

I wouldn't sell them quite yet since they will be valuable to me later with the whole discovery of aircraft and that I can make it as a port for the couple of players there who have investments in and around Venazuala...cough...cough South America and North America. :cool:

Well, I don't give a damn. The US can have the whole damned region for all Germany cares. Just as long as we get to have as much of that helium stuff as we need... the Kaiser thinks it's funny when he breathes it in....

Oh yeah, you forgot to add that Germany has the Azores and Madiera.

In the 40s I can start making "Speed" there and ALL KINDS of hallucenators. Joking, I am thinking about getting into the chocalate trade.

I'm going to leave major updates to this list until after the war's over but i'll add all the little things.

Japan: The Spratly Islands have been claimed by Spain, Britain, Portugal and many others over the years and have never had any indiginous population. In 1900 it was under French control (SEE HERE (http://www.425dxn.org/dc3mf/1s0_h.html)). But it was sold to Japan in 1901 and in turn sold to the Chinese in 1908. However in this alternate timeline none of this has happened yet and so they will remain under French control, unless you request to buy them of course (I am fairly sure that they could use the money in their situation!).

When did this happen?


In the Russian News Thread.

Thank you,


IC:
Denmark is happily providing food and winter clothing for any European nation that needs more food or winter clothing. If any of the war-time nations are interested in buying please contact Denmark's Official Dipllomatic page off of the main page.

Got another customised map for you guys.

I did one of the South Pacific here (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y270/dumelow/spacmap.jpg) as its very confusing and easily to mistake which islands you own.

It uses the same key as the world map but the territories are circled with the colour instead of filled. Also theres some modern names and colours on the map which you'll have to ignore but it's the best that I could get without making one from scratch.

Some words of warning:
-It's a fairly large file (700KB+) if your on 56k
-As usual probably some mistakes on it as territories are always changing hands, if you find any post here and let me know. (Any places I wasn't sure of I just used the historical ownership)


@GERMANY

You historically owned Nauru island, which I don't think you've sold or whatever yet. However you did get rid of the rest of your Pacific territories so I don't know what you want to do with this one.
(If you do want to sell it i'm sure Britain would be interested as it is surrounded by our territory and you could use some money as war funds right now, TG me and i'll make an offer if your interested)

Oh I forgot to mention, I haven't got time to add everyones islands to the list. So if you each check your own countries and compile a list of island groups, post them here and i'll add them on.

Lesser Ribena-could you please add Persia to my list of nations under my rule. I conquer Persia sometime ago.

Okay, will do. (You conquered Njed (Arabia) as well right?)

I'll update the map whilst i'm there.

Yes ,I have conquered Nejd and Persia.

I still have Islands there?!?!

Ok, I'll sell 'em to Britain. All of them.

How much?

.....Can you please change the lands of Serbian Macedonia to being independent, and the parts of Greek Macedonia as belonging to the Greeks?

@Macedonia

OK will do.


@Parthini

Will TG you with further details

tag

I can't tell if I or America control some of the Islands but I am going to say me-0 America-all the rest.

Yeah sorry the colours are very similar and the map got shrunk by the hosting place. I'm trying to find a limitless pixel size picture hosterm does anyone know of one?

Anyway you got it right all the grey ones are USA territory.

OK, found an unlimited size hoster. Will upload new picture now, should be a bit clearer.

Denmark territories= Hot Pink :) :fluffle: :cool: :) :) :fluffle:

The new world map is now up.

It includes Denmark in a rather naseous pink!

I updated your lists as well to include the Faroe Islands.

Yes! Alright! :gundge: (Confetti Thrower) :gundge: :gundge: :fluffle: :fluffle: :)

I control ALL of Sakhalin Island now, I purchased it from Russia, (apparently i didn't have to buy the Kurils off of Russia, I owned them circa 1900, Plus China renounced all claims to any island territory in our Treaty during the boxer rebellion. So that would make Hainan Dao mine as well.

Germany will agree to sell the lands to Britain for the agreed amount.

Okay guys, Crete is, at the moment, under Italian control. Also, I think France has managed to seize Alsace-Lorraine and all or most of the German colonies.

Okay guys, Crete is, at the moment, under Italian control. Also, I think France has managed to seize Alsace-Lorraine and all or most of the German colonies.

Since it's a war, we've decided to leave everything as it was until it's over because it would be too confusing. That and they only took Cameroons and Togoland. And only about 3/4 of Alsace.

Germany will agree to sell the lands to Britain for the agreed amount.

Ok then, consider the money transferred and i'll change the islands over in the next update.

As Parthini said, i'm not updating anything in Europe yet as it is all likely to change again before the war is over.

Yeah I am thinking Europe is going to be a really big pieace of land divided into three peoples, Russia, Germany, France, then little states following behind, Spain, Me, Macadonia, pretty much major powers using some goverments as puppets.

OOC: Well, I've kinda racially divided it into the Teutons: Germany, Austria, half of Poland, Denmark, Scandinavia, The Netherlands, and Britian. Slavs: Everything east of Hungary and the Balkans and Russia and the Latins: France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, and Belgium. That's about it.

Yeah that is a good way of putting it too, even better then mine since I really don't get racial hate and stuff the Russians and Austrians have.....

:) :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :sniper: :sniper: :mp5: :gundge:
|
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Russian\Austrian line of death (Happy people are the greeks)

Could anyone tell me if Bulgaria is still in the Ottoman Empire or has declared independence at this point?

The Ottomans withdrew entirely from the Balkans back in, like, 1902. For some reason (probably because neither I nor the Turks have looked at this thread in a while, let alone said anything in it), those now-independent states in the map are still colored Turkish. The Ottomans' current European border corresponds to that of the present day.
Also, for some reason, the Map shows the Turks in possession of Georgia and Azerbaidzhan, as well as the entire North coast of the Black Sea. And the main post still gives Russia the Sakhalins (which we sold to Japan), and gives Romania Bessarabia (which is still under Russian rule, though autonomous).
And the Austro-Hungarian Empire is destroyed (just now, might want to wait on the edits until after the Peace Conference in Washington). And Germany withdrew from Venezuela.
Thanks for all your work, by the way. It's really cool.

Colombia owns Syracuse.

OK, thanks people. Will do a mini-update on both maps and lists shortly. Am still going to wait for the final peace conference before doing anything war related though.

Colombia when you say Syracuse, do you mean the Syracuse in Italy?

I do believe so. I have the ex-german naval base.

I do believe so. I have the ex-german naval base.

OOC:

How? Where? When? What post? Evidence?

This evidence: Colombia has the formerly German naval base in Syracuse.

Also, Italy and the Ottoman Empire have decided to give this land to the League, through an agreement with Italy. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/Ottoman01/jo-map.gif

So, at the least, add Trans-Jordan as League controlled (though further negotiations will decide which pieces go to who)

WTF? That isn't really evidence. And I'm gonna want that back Italy.

This evidence: Colombia has the formerly German naval base in Syracuse.

Uh, that isn't evidence.

How did Colombia take over the German base halfway around the world? I need concrete evidence of Colombia taking control of German base in Sycrause.

"Colombia owns it" doesn't cut it. I need to see actual RP'ed posts regarding this.

I recall the incident, basically Colombia has a trade/refueling base at the former German base (which fell early in the war to Italian forces in a rather impressive victory for the Italians)

I recall the incident, basically Colombia has a trade/refueling base at the former German base (which fell early in the war to Italian forces in a rather impressive victory for the Italians)

Trade and refuel? Thats fine by me.

However, Fluffywuffy makes it appear that Colombia annexed or invaded and conquered the German base? :confused:

It's not fine by me. Germany and Italy had a treaty and Italy broke it! I want my base back!

Parthini']It's not fine by me. Germany and Italy had a treaty and Italy broke it! I want my base back!

You can work it out at the neogiation table in Washington. I'm only saying that if everything goes to hell, the best case scenario for the Colombians would to be refuel / trade... not annex or invade the base (unless they go to war aganist Italy). Worst case scenario for Colombia = base returns to Germany.

I think going to war with Italy kinda ended whatever agreements you may have had.

I would agree Alt Aus.

Yeah, the base was given to me based on lucrative contracts to the Italians in arms shipments. (Which are still being shipped by the way, Italy.)

So instead of Italy taking a base it worked and fought for they let you have it? Cool but okay.....

To Germany:

You should be wishing that you never even had a Syracuse naval base, yet you still demand it?! Man, those drugs sure are strong....

OK then Syracuse will stay on the list, for the time being.

All other updates will wait for the final results from the Washington Conference.

OOC: That's a mature way of saying it...

Yes, I demand it back. I feel that, as one of the victors considering we took more land than you did, I deserve the return of what I rightfully received. What I do with it is a different matter. Do you really think I plan to begin patrolling the Mediterranean claiming superiority? Besides, I/Aequatio gave you all that stuff and you just deny me everything. All I want is some little naval base to put a few cruisers and let my merchant ships and Zeppelins refuel so they can go to Turkey and so on, and you begin claiming I participate in drug usage.

On a side note, I think Chatzy is a good idea so we don't spam everything. http://www.chatzy.com/684093003041

Parthini']It's not fine by me. Germany and Italy had a treaty and Italy broke it! I want my base back!

why? its strategically indefensible, expensive to supply, and surrounded by a hostile population

Ok. Well, I realized that so far, all of my ideas counteract my needs. I do have any British ports, essentially. I'll think if something in a sec. GB, get on Chatzy tho.

The following may be of some use for players of the above RP. I have listed colonies and possessions of colonial empires in circa 1900. The data is taken from a map printed on pages 142-143 of The Times History of War (2000 Edition). This list is by no means difinitive and will undoubtedly contain some errors. If you have research that contradicts mine please contact me and i'll change it.

Another map.

This time one of the South Pacific area (http://files.photojerk.com/dumelow/spacmap.JPG). (Territories are encircled by country colour, correct as of start 1907)

correction:
The United States recently purchased French Polynesia, and a couple of years ago transferred American Samoa to the British Empire (probably went to Australia) in exchange for the Northern Marianas. In addition, I believe Germany sold Palau and Naura to the British as well.

OK thanks GB, will update lists etc. shortly.

Also, everybody's Pacific possessions should now be listed. Tell me if they're missing.

Hanian Dao.

It's an island off the southeast coast of China, I got all islands claimed/Controlled by china when China and I signed our Treaty back in 1903

P.S. Sorry i didn't want to be nittpicky about it.

Don't worry about it, I like being thorough!

I'll add it now.

All of Frances lands in colonies in the Pacific and Indian oceans are now mine except Madagascar, any Indian possesions and Indo China.

All of them!

How much did that cost you?

Ah well, more land for the glorious British Empire and it's Australian Dominion. Will do updates shortly.

A good ten million. It includes Reunion and Mauritous.

A bargain then.

will add Mauritius and Reunion to the list. The map will have to wait as it takes ages to upload and i'd rather have more changes on to it before I do.

As of 1920, German Southwest Africa will be a part of the Union of South Africa. Germany sold it to me. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9575085&postcount=1508)

OK will add when we roll round to 1920 (monday).

I have Austria, and am giving independance to Togoland and Cameroons, while donating German East Africa to the Ottomans. Keeping Madiera and the Azores.

Righto, will update.

Figured I may as well do a full update, lists are now OK for 1920 andthe new map will be up tomorrow.

All of Frances lands in colonies in the Pacific and Indian oceans are now mine except Madagascar, any Indian possesions and Indo China.

I sold you no islands in the Indian Ocean. I only sold you Pacific Islands.

Parthini']I have Austria, and am giving independance to Togoland and Cameroons, while donating German East Africa to the Ottomans. Keeping Madiera and the Azores.

You gave independence to Togoland and the Cameroons? Ok, well they quickly revert to tribalism, as they don't have the infrastructure and trained leaders to run a country. Your local officials there would urge you to change your mind on that one, at least for a few more years.

I sold you no islands in the Indian Ocean. I only sold you Pacific Islands.


If you ever want to sell any more Indian Ocean or Pacific Islands/Territory let me know(Madagascar/IndoChina)

If your ever interested in selling I'm interested in buying.

OOC: Argentina has claimed 100,000 km^2 of Antarctica (the slice of real land south of South America) mostly because they can.

(OOC: does that mean that i'll get a bit more land?)

Argentina, have you made your historical claim?

If so I think mine and yours overlaps. I claimed mine in 1908 (as in RL) and it comprises of the following: 20°W and 80°W latitude converging on the Suth Pole. New Zealand and Australian territories will likely follow RL as well and will take up:

Australia: 160°E to 142°02'E and 136°11'E to 44°38'E (though as France has not yet claimed the bit in the middle will likely be claimed as well)
New Zealand: 150°W to 160°E

This leaves the bits between the British and Australian claims, and the New Zealand and British claims unclaimed. Perhaps you would like to claim there? I have no objection to you maintaining your historical claim but as we are allies in the timeline it would not make much sense to go against each other on Antarctic claims.

A good mao can be found here: map (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7e/Antarctica.jpg)

With all this antartic claiming, I will officiallypost New Zealand's claim to Antartic territory (just 2 years ahead of RL claim).

New Zealand Antartic Territory: All land and sea beneath 60° longitude and between 150°W to 160°E latitude.

Historically the US has not recognized any claims to Antarctica and will not do so. The US has just a valid a claim as Britain and Russia in the Wilkes voyages in the 1820s came even closer than the British voyages under Cook and as close the the Russian voyages under Belleghaussen.

ooc
that said, I am going to assume at this point that the Scott and Amualdson expeditions reached the South Pole as they did historically with the same results. Which gives Norway as good a claim as any one else. Technology wise, we have a way to go before routine wintering over is even possible yet.

OOC: Unhistorically, I actually had explorers trying to reach the South Pole in 1901-04. None of them succeded, but the outposts from their expeditions remain. Officially, I claimed the historic territory in 1912. I'm more than willing to negotiate a shared claim to the area.

Just following the historic claims GB! I know the yanks and the Russians didn't recognise any claims but I thought i'd make mine as w edid historically just to see what happens.

Manarth: Sure, if we both claim the British section, we can coordinate research and whatever and maybe get a wintering station up and running a bit earlier than in RL. We could use Argentina as a base station and begin establishing bases on the less icy islands befoe expanding inland towards the south pole. Maybe we can establish an international base there for research purposes.

Since the competition has begun for the South, Germany, with the aid of Russia, has sent a Zeppelin to begin exploration of the North Pole. LZ-324 under the command of Dr. Hugo Eckner, has been ordered to set for Arkangelesk, Russia and then to begin surveys of the surrounding region.

France has sold Cambodia and Laos to China.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9615716&postcount=95

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9615750&postcount=96

OOC: There is the question of how long it would take to occupy them and establish control (as well as deal with any trouble makers who do not share the Emperors vision).

OOC: There is the question of how long it would take to occupy them and establish control (as well as deal with any trouble makers who do not share the Emperors vision).

This will give me some of the RP that I desperately want to do between 1920 - 1930.

Can China talk to Russia about the current stand-off in the Balkins and get them to see reason?

This will give me some of the RP that I desperately want to do between 1920 - 1930.

Also it will give you a gateway to Siam and Southeast Asia. I suggest you look up the history of those colonies during this time and see what local groups you will be dealing with (Cambodia and Laos have quite complex histories)...

Can China talk to Russia about the current stand-off in the Balkins and get them to see reason?

Right now, China is unsure what to make of the "new" Russia IC'ly. China doesn't know whether the new Russia will be friendly or hostile to China, but China can count on Germany as an ally.

We gotta figure out international relations for the 1920's though.

I was wondering when we'll be able to have a map for the year 1920 (or 1921 now)?

That 1907 map is getting a bit outdated, as some changes are already taking place in 1920, like the French sale to China, the Austria / Hungary annexations of 1908 by Germany and Russia, and so forth.

February 1921
Russian troops and diplomats are being sent into Northern Afghanistan to assist local chieftains in forming a stable, friendly, independent government (the Tribal Republic of Afghanistan). This is partly to stabilize the region, and partly also to acquire right of passage our troops and forward military bases. The Afghans, as I say, would be basically independent otherwise.

Not to be outdone by the Germans the French have launched their own expedition for the North Pole. The specially designed ship the SS Victoire, along with a supply ship, has set sail from Calais. The Victoire carries a plane to enable long-range exploration and has a crew of twenty, plus expedition personell of thirty. The expedition plans to use skis, sleds, and a specially cold-weather equipped plane to find and reach the North Pole. The expedition is headed up by Captain Alexandre Delven of the French navy, an experienced officer who ahs worked in the Artic waters before.

Rest assured a new map will be up shortly. Time is short now that I am back at school.

Russia: Afghanistan is ostensibly ruled by me (Britain) I invaded with Persia back in 1905 or there abouts and I usurped his half of the country when Persia was occupied by the Turks.

VP said that Nepal and Bhutan were independent, albeit with considerable British and Chinese interests. Yet they are listed as British colonies?

Tibet is part of China, so it should be considered a "holding" of China the same way Mongolia is.

I apologize if I sound nit-picky, but I want this confusing issue resolved.

Rest assured a new map will be up shortly. Time is short now that I am back at school.

Russia: Afghanistan is ostensibly ruled by me (Britain) I invaded with Persia back in 1905 or there abouts and I usurped his half of the country when Persia was occupied by the Turks.
Ah. Missed that. GB said you had basically lost interest in Afghanistan and it had probably reverted to its medieval state. If there is a real British presence there, I'll probably just send a Russian consul and some spies to mess with you, instead of actually doing anything serious.

Uh, Vietnam isn't Chinese. Only Laos and Cambodia are. Vietnam is still French.

Uh, Vietnam isn't Chinese. Only Laos and Cambodia are. Vietnam is still French.

D'oh. I must have overlooked that in the foreign claims listing!

Please fix this as well. :)

OK will change the Nepal/Bhutan thing then. It'sjust that the original map that I was working off (for 1900) listed them as under British rule. But i'll change them to indpendent for you.

Vietnam will be changed back to France.

Russia: it's not so much British rule in Afghanistan but it's technically claimed as part of the Empire, though at the moment it's still mostly angry tribes supported by sparse British garrisons. In the enar future I am looking to allocate troops there to put down any rebels and bring order to the nation, but not just yet.

The map update will have to wait till tonight (BST time) though, when I have more time.

You didn't color in Sakhalin Island and Hainan Dao with my color.

Russia: it's not so much British rule in Afghanistan but it's technically claimed as part of the Empire, though at the moment it's still mostly angry tribes supported by sparse British garrisons. In the enar future I am looking to allocate troops there to put down any rebels and bring order to the nation, but not just yet.
In that case, consider those "rebels" to be well-armed and well-organized, as if supported by a foreign power . . .

And on the map, I should mention that Hungary is way too big, since it looks like it includes Austria, Czechoslovakia, and part of Yugoslavia. And Yugoslavia is all effectively one country, so the internal borders there are unnecessary.

Map update will be up shortly.

Russia: Strange indeed, rebels armed with modern equipment. I am sure that will warrant an investigation. I look forward to that!

Map now updated.

You forgot to add Tibet as a Chinese possession, as per VP's final ruling.

Hainan Dao is that Peninsula looking island down off the chinese coast near vietnam. Trust me its an island

Im pretty sure Spitsbergen (sp?) is Norwegian at this time and not Danish, please correct me if im wrong.

Sorry about that guys, I will add Tibet to Chinese control (on the map) shortly and Hainan Dao.

As to Spitzbergen my original source credited it to the Danish but this is clearly a mistake and I will rectify it to Norwegian control.

thanks ;)

map updated, should all be correct now...

Just thought i'd mention to China and Japan that i've moved Hainan Dao a few pixels away from the Chinese coast to help differentiate it from China as an island. This obviously will not have any effect in game terms!

Looks good!

Thanks for your patience with this, LR. :)

don't worry about it, I enjoy it...

As of March 1922, Moldova (a tiny sliver on the Main Map there, just to the right of Romania) is formally transferred to Romanian sovereignty..
Hungary's still way too big, and there's still no Czechoslovakia, but I don't suppose it matters much.

The Italian government has officially asked the British and Ottoman governments if Italy can purchase part of Egypt. Basically, the purchase is to make the Libya-Egypt border the same as the modern one, except that the border would be moved to 25 degrees east. I am assuming that places the border on almost exactly the same spot as the modern border, except that the line is straight the entire way. It's probably mostly desert there anyways, but the current AH Libya looks...funky.

VP: Yeah I need to get around to redoing Europe, it's still in a mess after the Great War when I quickly partitioned it in response to calls for a reference material. I'll probably redraw it tonight.

Italy: will reply in Ottoman thread once i've thought about it.

The new map is drawn but I will have to upload it tomorrow.

VP: Is Poland all yours or did you split it with Germany?

Also do you still want 2 colours on the map or just one for the USDR?

The new map is drawn but I will have to upload it tomorrow.

VP: Is Poland all yours or did you split it with Germany?

Also do you still want 2 colours on the map or just one for the USDR?
Those are both good questions. I'll have to check with my partner. I'm fairly sure he won't want to give up German Poland, but we'll probably want just one color. Makes us look more monolithic and scary.
But I'll get back to you.

Right thanks, I'll get the new map up once you've replied.

One final question, you don't actually own Czechoslovakia do you?

I didn't think so but I thought i'd better czech (it's a pun!).

Oh and I did a trial redrawing of a red Russia, Germany et al and it looks pretty imposing!

Right thanks, I'll get the new map up once you've replied.

One final question, you don't actually own Czechoslovakia do you?

I didn't think so but I thought i'd better czech (it's a pun!).

Oh and I did a trial redrawing of a red Russia, Germany et al and it looks pretty imposing!
No, we don't own Czechoslovakia. At least not yet. It's an NPC state and, like much of the rest of Eastern European, probably uneasily trying to maintain its neutrality around its big scary neighbors. Sooner or later Socialists may come to power there and join the Warsaw Pact, but we haven't done anything there as of the present time.
Long answer to a short question. Sorry.

Yes, one big Red color stretching from sea to shining sea is how we want it.

As for internal borders (e.g., Poland), they're not especially important at the present time, but my Komrad "want[s] the German Polish possessions after WWI, if you [i.e., Russia] are giving Poland independence." I think that that effectively means the Polish-German border remains unchanged from 1900, while the Polish-Russian border will be shifted to the one in existence following WWI.

Right thanks VP. New map will be up shortly.

Right a couple of things about this new map, I couldn't remember if it was the USDR or something else for the Russo-German Union, I put it in as USDR but I didn't have time to check. Apologies if this is incorrect.

Also Italy, I have yet to change Egypt for you, I will fix this in the next update.

You forgot to add the North Pole for Germany :) Hell, I claim the Artic Circle.

Right a couple of things about this new map, I couldn't remember if it was the USDR or something else for the Russo-German Union, I put it in as USDR but I didn't have time to check. Apologies if this is incorrect.

Also Italy, I have yet to change Egypt for you, I will fix this in the next update.
If my Komrad's not offended, it's cool, but officially right now we're just called the Warsaw Pact. For the full confederation, eventually, I'm not sure we actually settled on a name.
We do look scary, though, don't we? Awesome.
Thanks!

Oh sorry, if it's a problem I can change it at the next update, which will probably be around the end of the week (ie. Sunday).

As Denmark my opinions about this is posted on the other thread. Also even though I don't acknowledge the latest german goverment doesn't mean I don't accept the Russian one. So I ask can I buy somehow some of these islands (or one) *if you let me for a reasonable price I could let some things about iceland be favorable.

Dolgiy I.
Sverdrup I.
A island from Nordenskold Arch.


One of those would be nice, pretty much those would be ice cold pieaces of wasteland. I wouldn't know the seasons but I would expect it 5-7 months of shipping with the 7th reduced by 50% with the expensive icebreakers. Anything else is pretty much very expensive to get through and some months un-shipable.

Also I want just some renting space (On a yearly-renewable base on the Seward Pennisula (Alaska). **If you do Britian could find a very helpful Denmark Diplomat with Icland.

*For Russia/Germany Only
** For America/Britian Only

The Big Red Menace is conqueri - Liberating Denmark. The US will respond by conqu - er, Securing Iceland, and there will probably be a race for Greenland. I expect we'll lose, but we'll try anyway.

The Big Red Menace is conqueri - Liberating Denmark. The US will respond by conqu - er, Securing Iceland, and there will probably be a race for Greenland. I expect we'll lose, but we'll try anyway.
Wait a freaking second....you already took over Denmark without rping a war or something...that's werid..

Wait a freaking second....you already took over Denmark without rping a war or something...that's werid..
Oh, there will be a war, it'll just last about a freaking second. Check your telegrams.

war moderator here.... due to real life I can't post much at the moment.

However, a complete summary of what happened in Denmark, and what happened to its associated territories, will be posted either late tonight or early tomorrow. Essentially the Danes are buried under a tidal wave of German soldiers using Stoss tactics, with armor support on land. At sea, German submarines sink several Danish ships in harbor, while their surface fleet and other submarines make any possibility of civilian or military ships running away suicidal. They are either captured in port (civilian ships) or scuttled (military ships). Its over in 2 weeks for Denmark. Its small army simply hasn't got a chance. A few forts hold out for a while before they are pounded to pieces or surrender in the final general surrender at the end.

More specific details later.

OOC: You forgot to add the Arctic Circle as being part of Germany.

IC: (This is after Denmark Surrenders) The Red Army, realizing that its ownership of Danish lands is at stake, begins immediate preparations to enforce the ownership.

Giving up completely on Iceland and the Virgin Islands, a dozen Zeppelins are sent out. 2 Transport Zeppelins and 6 Carrier Zeppelins are sent Northwest to Greenland, and will meet up with a scout Zeppelin coming down from the North Pole. A second group of a Transport and 3 Carriers are heading to Nome. Any Danish Isles in the North Sea are being claimed by various ships.

Parthini']IC: (This is after Denmark Surrenders) The Red Army, realizing that its ownership of Danish lands is at stake, begins immediate preparations to enforce the ownership.

Giving up completely on Iceland and the Virgin Islands, a dozen Zeppelins are sent out. 2 Transport Zeppelins and 6 Carrier Zeppelins are sent Northwest to Greenland, and will meet up with a scout Zeppelin coming down from the North Pole. A second group of a Transport and 3 Carriers are heading to Nome. Any Danish Isles in the North Sea are being claimed by various ships.

ooc
How exactly are you going to get to Nome? By crossing Siberia during winter? You certainly aren't going to be allowed to fly over North America.

And the North Atlantic and Greenland in winter is virtually suicide for a Zeppelin. The crews protest hugely if ordered to carry this out, and you may lose them all in flight. Remember, its December 1923 at this point.

Even the US can't get to most of the Greenland settlements because of sea ice, although it can get to the southern ones because the Coast Guard is right there handling the Ice Patrol.

Appalled by the German invasion of Denmark, US warships immediately take up station at the Danish Virgin Islands and the various settlements in Greenland. In Iceland US forces are already in place. Any German vessel that approaches is warned off.

Officially the US is holding them in trust for the day the Danish government is able to return to power. Unofficially the US is offering Iceland independence, as long as it agrees to British and American bases already there, and also offers it Greenland. Independence is also offered the Danish Virgin Islands under US protection.

ooc
I will need Sharina or Vas to rule on that
I'll rule on it. The royal government was unpopular in all three colonies, and Icelanders will be happy to restore their own traditional republic, and will rightly see the bases there as a boon to their economy. Greenlanders, all fifty of them, are historically resentful of Danish economic restrictions, and happy to declare independence and form closer ties with the US and Canada (especially the Inuit nationalists - both of them). The vastly Afro-Caribbean majority of the population in the Virgin Islands, as well, has no particular wish to see a Danish king take up residence in Charlotte Amalie, and will accept the American protectorate.
Denmark itself will go to a new Prime Minister, the Social Democrat Vilhelm Buhl, and be incorporated into the Warsaw Pact.

OK, updates. So far I have the following:

Denmark ---> Warsaw Pact
Iceland, Greenland ---> Independence
Danish Virgin Islands ---> USA
Artic ---> Warsaw Pact

Any others?

Updates will be on their way shortly.

OK, map update on it's way with all the baove changes made. Plus now that some colours have been freed up Mexico, Argentina and Sweden are now on the map.

Front page will be updated now.

|EDIT| I'm against adding the arctic to the map as it does not actually consist of any land, it's just ice. Anyway the antartic isn't even on!

lol.

You could have a dotted line around the sea borders.

I don't see Colombia on there..

Yeah many PC countries aren't on there at the moment. This is due to two factors:

1- There's only a certain number of colours possible (they have to be different enough to tell apart)

2- There's no real need to put many countries on the map, either everyone knows where they are, they're too small to bother with or they have few overseas territories.

In the case of Colombia, its quite small and has few overseas territories, plus I ran out of colours. Maybe i'll add it later once some colours are freed up (ie. somewhere gets invaded. like Denmark). Argentina, Chechoslovakia and Sweden were only added as they filled up some large areas that look better coloured in.

As to the Arctic, i'll look into some sort of dotted line later today to see if it's feasible.

Parthini']lol.

You could have a dotted line around the sea borders.


I don't think you can claim a whole Ocean, especially since it's international waters, if so there are whole bunch of straights that could be claimed, Gibraltar, Magellan, English Channel, G-I-UK Gap and a few that me and VP had a discussion about

Of course you can't claim a whole ocean. But I'm not going to argue with him because he's my closest ally, and the rest of you seem to either be ignoring him or maybe just don't have the stones.

Of course you can't claim a whole ocean. But I'm not going to argue with him because he's my closest ally, and the rest of you seem to either be ignoring him or maybe just don't have the stones.


Eff that, Japanese Whalers like going up there to fish.

I can claim whatever I want. I have more soldiers than you do there and in total.

And if you want to fish, it'll cost you.

The United States will not recognize any claims regarding open ocean. Even the Arctic Ocean. Probably especially the Arctic Ocean.

Parthini']I can claim whatever I want. I have more soldiers than you do there and in total.

And if you want to fish, it'll cost you.

If you want to deny Japanese Fisherman rights to fish in International waters and claim the entire ocean as yours, Japan claims all straights that it controls on both sides to Access The Sea Of Okhost and the Sea of Japan and denys the Any Warsaw Pact ships the right to sail through those.


OOC: you might want to talk to VP about this, he won't be happy.

Parthini']I can claim whatever I want. I have more soldiers than you do there and in total.

And if you want to fish, it'll cost you.

A stiff note sent to the German Embassy:
Any German warship that interferes with LTA flagged shipping in any ocean outside of the 3 mile limit will be considered to be carrying out an act of war against the LTA.

If you want to deny Japanese Fisherman rights to fish in International waters and claim the entire ocean as yours, Japan claims all straights that it controls on both sides to Access The Sea Of Okhost and the Sea of Japan and denys the Any Warsaw Pact ships the right to sail through those.


OOC: you might want to talk to VP about this, he won't be happy.
Tokyo would be citing Berlin's precedent, and no, Moscow wouldn't be happy. The result would be open war with the Allies, and a war against the Allies is not in the Pact's interests at this point in time, even with our much greater advantages relative to RL history taken into consideration.

It was only a matter of time before the claim was challenged or violated. Seeing as how there's no conceivable way to enforce it, it didn't even occur to me that Germany might make a real issue of it.

Although this information will not yet be made public, neither Moscow nor Warsaw will endorse Berlin's claim in this case. Trotsky himself, in Hamburg, undoubtedly considers the affair a non-issue. Both the General Consultative Council and the Union Supreme Council are currently attempting to persuade Germany to quietly drop its claims.

STATEMENT REGARDING INTERNATIONAL WATERS

Britain has always been a staunch defender fo shipping rights across the world and believes that international waters (all those outside of recognised nautical claims from a land territory) should be free to use by commercial, private and government craft. It is in light of this stance that Britain hereby officially ignores the German claim of ownership of the Arctic. Canadian and British fishermen are encouraged to continue in their useage of the waters.

A small British flotilla (consisting of 3 destroyers, a cruiser and a squadron of ocean going submarines) departs Scapa Flow for the Arctic circle, officially to engage in naval exercises, iunofficially to keep an eye on things.

Britain hereby announces the bestowal of protectorate status upon the territories of Abyssinia and Yemen. These areas have long been highly dependent upon the British both militarily and economically. Now they have been assured continued British investment and protection, garissons have already moved in and preparations begun for investment in social welfare, education and medicine in the areas as well as increased industrial expenditure. The troops freed up from guarding the borders have been dispatched to reinforce the French African border and Gibralter.

OOC: I cleared this with GB first.

Britain hereby announces the bestowal of protectorate status upon the territories of Abyssinia and Yemen. These areas have long been highly dependent upon the British both militarily and economically. Now they have been assured continued British investment and protection, garissons have already moved in and preparations begun for investment in social welfare, education and medicine in the areas as well as increased industrial expenditure. The troops freed up from guarding the borders have been dispatched to reinforce the French African border and Gibralter.

OOC: I cleared this with GB first.
I'm challenging GB's ruling here.

Ethiopian national identity was highly centered on being the only state in Africa never to be colonized, and I can't imagine them accepting a protectorate status without resistance. Ras Tafari Makonnen, the Regent, almost certainly wouldn't agree to it. He was known for his anti-colonialism (though he was "pro-Western" in other ways). Zauditu, the Empress, tended to keep herself too busy with religious services to even try to interfere with the Regent's decisions, and she had some national pride herself.

I don't know much about Yemen.

"South" Yemen (I don't why it's called that, because it's really East) is already a British Protectorate, and has been since 1869. Formally attached to the government of India historically until 1918 (when rule was tranferred to the British Foreign Office), it has probably just been restructured administratively.

"North" (i.e., West) Yemen is still part of the Ottoman Empire. So declaring protectorate over that would have to be discussed with Istambul.

I'm challenging GB's ruling here.

Ethiopian national identity was highly centered on being the only state in Africa never to be colonized, and I can't imagine them accepting a protectorate status without resistance. Ras Tafari Makonnen, the Regent, almost certainly wouldn't agree to it. He was known for his anti-colonialism (though he was "pro-Western" in other ways). Zauditu, the Empress, tended to keep herself too busy with religious services to even try to interfere with the Regent's decisions, and she had some national pride herself.

I don't know much about Yemen.

I figure they would allow a base at Mesewa and a British regiment in the capital under the fiction that it is there as a training cadre. The British have a lot of experience in this kind of thing, far more than anyone else, and have done similar things in India and Southeast Asia, so I can see them pulling this off if handled adroitly. Remember, nearly a third of India at this point is not actually directly ruled by the British, or the new Dominion government, but by independent client state rulers... the Rajahs. Some of those territories are larger than some of the smaller European countries.

"South" Yemen (I don't why it's called that, because it's really East) is already a British Protectorate, and has been since 1869. Formally attached to the government of India historically until 1918 (when rule was tranferred to the British Foreign Office), it has probably just been restructured administratively.

"North" (i.e., West) Yemen is still part of the Ottoman Empire. So declaring protectorate over that would have to be discussed with Istambul.

North Yemen is under Ottoman rule in the loosest possible sense. A few garrisons in the towns and thats about it.

I can see the Ethiopians going for a British garrison in order to protect them from the Italians (who were embarrassed in the 1890s attempting to invade Ethiopia) or Turks.

From: The British Government
STATEMENT REGARDING INTERNATIONAL WATERS

Britain has always been a staunch defender fo shipping rights across the world and believes that international waters (all those outside of recognised nautical claims from a land territory) should be free to use by commercial, private and government craft. It is in light of this stance that Britain hereby officially ignores the German claim of ownership of the Arctic. Canadian and British fishermen are encouraged to continue in their useage of the waters.

A small British flotilla (consisting of 3 destroyers, a cruiser and a squadron of ocean going submarines) departs Scapa Flow for the Arctic circle, officially to engage in naval exercises, unofficially to keep an eye on things.
While of course the principle of liberty of the World's Seas beyond the Three-mile Limit is an uncontroversial one, and British seacraft, even warships, may travel wherever they wish, nevertheless it is my duty to inform you that any exercises conducted east of Nord Kapp would be quite unwelcome in Moscow's view, and perceived as gratuitously aggressive at an inauspicious time of rising tensions in many areas. We hope that the honorable Mr. Churchill and the Admiralty will consider this in determining the deployments of the Royal Navy.

Secret OoC: Just so you know, the Baltic Squadron laid a lot of mines just East of Nord Kapp when they were redeployed to the Pacific. Moscow and Hamburg have the only charts.

The Ethiopians will agree to a British base at Mesewa (their only port) and the Foreign Office finesses a deal in which the Emperour of Ethiopia hires a British Army regiment as a bodyguard in Addis Ababa which also serves the function of training his army.

Mainly to ensure the Italians don't try to invade again more than anything else.


I'll go along with this, though I think Tafari (not Emperor yet, by the way) will strongly object to the word "Protectorate" and insist instead that London call him an "Ally." That actually happened in WWII, after all.

The Yemen thing I think still stands, though. Aden is already British, and while they could (quite easily) detach North Yemen from the Ottomans, the latter would be pretty damn upset if that happened.

IC: Mr. Churchill informs the Russian government that no exercises will be taking place anywhere east of Nord Kapp and that the Russian advise wil be accepted. Our ships will only operate in waters to the south and west of the northern ice cap.

OOC: As to Yemen, I didn't realise that the Ottomans owned any of it. In that case, i'll abandon any claims I made to North Yemen. Oh and Ethipia can officially be termed an ally, to please the ruling parties and to explain the presence of my troops defending an "ally's" territory.

IC: Mr. Churchill informs the Russian government that no exercises will be taking place anywhere east of Nord Kapp and that the Russian advise wil be accepted. Our ships will only operate in waters to the south and west of the northern ice cap.

OOC: As to Yemen, I didn't realise that the Ottomans owned any of it. In that case, i'll abandon any claims I made to North Yemen. Oh and Ethipia can officially be termed an ally, to please the ruling parties and to explain the presence of my troops defending an "ally's" territory.
Moscow appreciates the Admiralty's wisdom and the Prime Minister's consideration in this matter, and will reciprocate in full good faith. SIC Moscow does not support German claims to "ownership" of the Arctic Ocean. One day, with the abolition of Nationhood itself after the triumph of Communism, the Seas of the World will be owned by all Mankind. In the meantime, however, we must muddle through with the World as it is. We are requesting that Berlin drop its claim.

OoC: Cool. Hope I wasn't being too much of a dick about all that.

OOC: No, I quite understand. It's best to be realistic about these things. Thanks for your help.

New Map will be uploaded shortly and the list updated later tonight. The new map attempts to show major alliance groups and other organisations in the form of circles of colour on the nations. It's not a perfect system but it'll have to do until I can find a better one. Any problems with the map (i'm sure i've missed a few things) or whatever let me know and i'll edit it.

Colombia has:
Panama
French Guiana
Syracuse
Venezuela

The Cape Colony, Natal, and Southwest Africa are provinces of the Union now. Basutoland and Bechuanaland are colonial trust territories, and Swaziland is a protectorate.

The map's been updated now and the list should be current as well. Let me know what you think.

On the map, you have Southern Rhodesia (modern day Zimbabwe) as belonging to South Africa. It's still a British crown colony at this point, unless I missed something.

Also, South Africa controls the northern half of Madagascar. Argentina only has the southern half.

Could you remove Vietnam from France's list please.