NationStates Jolt Archive

For god sakes the software was already integrated into the Harpoon in the A variant. I just used a ground attack version as an example. Also Just becuase the target was Russian doesn't mean that it can only target Russian things it just happened to be a Russian target. I didn't have to reprogram the missile look below.


http://www.zap16.com/mil%20fact/weapons%20agm84%20harpoon.htm

AGM-84 Harpoon

The McDonnell Douglas Harpoon is a 1200-lb (544 kg) class anti-ship missile witch has been operational with the US Navy since the mid-1970s. It can be launched from ships (RGM-84) and submarines (UGM-84), as well as aircraft (AGM-84). The AGM-84A through D are externally identical. All versions of this subsonic missile are turbojet powered, with the NACA inlet located on the bottom of the missile between the wings.

The AGM-84A uses a radar altimeter to fly at sea-skimming heights. As it attacks its target, the AGM-84A performs a pop-up maneuver to enhance warhead penetration.

The AGM-84B has a guidance program which dispenses with the terminal pop-up maneuver. (not using this variant)

The AGM-84C has a refined pop-up maneuver.

The AGM-84D features an increase in range from 57 to 75 nm (66 to 86 miles; 106 to 139 km), and the ability to navigate to several turn points en route to the target area and then execute one of several terminal attack maneuvers.

The AGM-84E stand-off-land attack missile (SLAM) is a modification to the Harpoon for exactly what its name implies. To the basic airframe and engine combination is added an AGM-65D seeker, AGM-62 data link, and a GPS receiver for updating the inertial guidance section. These add 22.5 in (57 cm) to the missile's length. SLAM has a ranch of about 55 nm (63 miles; 102 km).
(this is the one i used as an example)

Now please, re post your damages.

I see you totally ignored my argument. Geez. Read what you just wrote.

The AGM-84E stand-off-land attack missile (SLAM) is a modification to the Harpoon for exactly what its name implies.

LAND ATTACK! A SHIP IS AT SEA! NOT AT LAND! Why can't you understand that?

I know the "pop" up version of the harpoon can hit some ships, but these are littoral vessels only, not deep sea combatants.

Oh yeah, please don't post any new attacks, I have a concert to perform in today, so no RP activity for us today. Please give FSM and myself a chance to catchup before the holidays.

That's called god modding.

If someone said they were using P-51 mustangs, and you were using F-16's, you would expect the F-16's to win right? Now what if the person using the P-51s said "oh, but I modified them to have stealth and jet engines" AFTER they attacked you, you would call that unfair.

What Wirraway is doing is not that extreme, but the same idea nonetheless.

So get to posting your losses Wirraway.
'Course I didn't use my new model Harpoons yet! I just announced them now! I know the rules and now that you know I have them I'm gonna use them.
The new model is what's on my Arkbird bombers now. The ones used in the first attack were original models. The next will be with modified Harpoons. (that would be the reason for so many missles in the first attack)

I see you totally ignored my argument. Geez. Read what you just wrote.



LAND ATTACK! A SHIP IS AT SEA! NOT AT LAND! Why can't you understand that?

I know the "pop" up version of the harpoon can hit some ships, but these are littoral vessels only, not deep sea combatants.

Oh yeah, please don't post any new attacks, I have a concert to perform in today, so no RP activity for us today. Please give FSM and myself a chance to catchup before the holidays.
Actualy, if you notice the AGM84C has a pop up, and that's an anti-ship.

JA, this is very simple

-I used the land attack version only as an example to show a harpoon preforming a pop-up, not becuase I actually used it in an attack.

-If you read, the C variant,A variant and D variant are both anti-shipping missiles

-IF you read, the C, the A and the D all have pop-up capability, in fact the C-variant has a refined one.

-In my RP I stated that the Harpoon popped up, had an extended range and attacked a ship, ergo the missiles used in my attack were the POP-UP Capable anti shipping D variant.

-Since I used these, they bypassed your armour belt on the side hit the less protected upper deck, and with a delayed fuse, as you stated, they woudl have crashed through and then exploded, cuasing major damage. I hope this clears things up.

Also the pop-up manuever can work on any vessel, for god sakes the Harpon was developed to fight the Soviet navy in the deep ocean.

Actualy, if you notice the AGM84C has a pop up, and that's an anti-ship.

Not according to my source.

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-84.html

The next U.S. Navy variant was the Harpoon Block 1B, designated AGM-84C, RGM-84C and UGM-84C. The Block 1B missiles were first delivered to the Navy in June 1982. The xGM-84C flies at the same lower cruise altitude as the UGM-84B, and does no pop-up manoeuver, flying a sea-skimming attack profile instead. The Block 1B training missiles are the ATM-84C, RTM-84C and UTM-84C.

It specifically says the 84C series does no pop-up maneuver.

edit:

The site I have listed seems a lot more reliable. It lists sources.

[1] Norman Friedman: "US Naval Weapons", Conway Maritime Press, 1983
[2] Norman Friedman: "World Naval Weapons Systems, 1997/98", Naval Institute Press, 1997
[3] Christopher Chant: "World Encyclopaedia of Modern Air Weapons", Patrick Stephens Ltd., 1988
[4] Hajime Ozu: "Missile 2000 - Reference Guide to World Missile Systems", Shinkigensha, 2000
[5] Bernard Blake (ed.): "Jane's Weapon Systems 1987-88", Jane's, 1988

The site you provided doesn't provide a bibliography, and the information is a lot more vague than the site I provided.

Im not sure whether you unignored me or not but seeing as I did what I had to to be unignored I'm going to assume you did and include you in my post.

JA, this is very simple

-I used the land attack version only as an example to show a harpoon preforming a pop-up, not becuase I actually used it in an attack.

-If you read, the C variant,A variant and D variant are both anti-shipping missiles

-IF you read, the C, the A and the D all have pop-up capability, in fact the C-variant has a refined one.

-In my RP I stated that the Harpoon popped up, had an extended range and attacked a ship, ergo the missiles used in my attack were the POP-UP Capable anti shipping D variant.

-Since I used these, they bypassed your armour belt on the side hit the less protected upper deck, and with a delayed fuse, as you stated, they woudl have crashed through and then exploded, cuasing major damage. I hope this clears things up.

Also the pop-up manuever can work on any vessel, for god sakes the Harpon was developed to fight the Soviet navy in the deep ocean.

Oh no! You have bypassed my 16" armor! Thank god for the 8" armor on the decks of my ships! Missiles still wouldn't sink my ships.

Here's my logic.

The AS-34 Koroman, Germany's anti-shipping missile is pretty similar to the harpoon. It's rated at 90mm of penetration, at 380 lbs of explosive. The harpoon has 480, so after doing the math, that comes to about 113mm of penetration. That's about 4 inches. Now, if you got lucky, and some how got 3 missiles to hit the same exact spot, you could do some real damage. But it takes 4 harpoons to sink a 10,000lb destroyer. The Musashi-II is about 70,000 lbs. So that's 21 missiles in the same exact spot to sink my ship. Obviously that is not going to happen, as there are other parts on the top of the ship that have heavier armor (25.6" turret face, 19.7" conning tower, 11.8" bulkheads). Given the fact that guidance is turned off after the missile pops up, it's highly unlikely that they will hit the same exact spot.

So, after taking CIWS, innacuracy and heavy armor into account, I have calculated that any number between 0 and 110 missiles could have hit the deck of my ships. Since you initiated, I gave you a slight advantage, making it 61 missiles that hit any part of a ship. Divide that by two (for the two battleships), so about 30 missiles hit each ship. Now, this isn't even taking FSM's losses into account (you said you fired some at him too, why should I get hit by all of the missiles?), so you have to wait for him for more losses. But, I'll assume that the missiles were divided equally between the two of us. Therefore, only 15 missiles hit the deck of each battleship.

That is why I said two ships were damaged.

Now post your losses.

JA, I'm still waiting for losses from my strike.

Oh no! You have bypassed my 16" armor! Thank god for the 8" armor on the decks of my ships! Missiles still wouldn't sink my ships.

Here's my logic.

The AS-34 Koroman, Germany's anti-shipping missile is pretty similar to the harpoon. It's rated at 90mm of penetration, at 380 lbs of explosive. The harpoon has 480, so after doing the math, that comes to about 113mm of penetration. That's about 4 inches. Now, if you got lucky, and some how got 3 missiles to hit the same exact spot, you could do some real damage. But it takes 4 harpoons to sink a 10,000lb destroyer. The Musashi-II is about 70,000 lbs. So that's 21 missiles in the same exact spot to sink my ship. Obviously that is not going to happen, as there are other parts on the top of the ship that have heavier armor (25.6" turret face, 19.7" conning tower, 11.8" bulkheads). Given the fact that guidance is turned off after the missile pops up, it's highly unlikely that they will hit the same exact spot.

So, after taking CIWS, innacuracy and heavy armor into account, I have calculated that any number between 0 and 110 missiles could have hit the deck of my ships. Since you initiated, I gave you a slight advantage, making it 61 missiles that hit any part of a ship. Divide that by two (for the two battleships), so about 30 missiles hit each ship. Now, this isn't even taking FSM's losses into account (you said you fired some at him too, why should I get hit by all of the missiles?), so you have to wait for him for more losses. But, I'll assume that the missiles were divided equally between the two of us. Therefore, only 15 missiles hit the deck of each battleship.

That is why I said two ships were damaged.

Now post your losses.
Please post losses for my massive attack soon.

Why is it you think that he aimed exclusively at your battleships? The missiles could have easily taken out a few cruisers and destroyers.

JA, I'm still waiting for losses from my strike.

READ!

I have a concert to perform in today, so no RP activity for us today. Please give FSM and myself a chance to catchup before the holidays.

I'm doing things one at a time.

Please post losses for my massive attack soon.

READ. Oh yeah, FSM is thinking about kicking you out of this thread too, because you don't fulfill the standard RP quality.

Shenyang, your 19,800 missile attack has been ignored, after a discussion with the #nationstates guys. The number of planes and number of missiles fired are extreme number-wanks.

One more poorly rp'd action and you're out of this thread.

Why is it you think that he aimed exclusively at your battleships? The missiles could have easily taken out a few cruisers and destroyers.

Because my ships were lined up in a manner so the battleships were in the front line. READ my post please.

I would like you guys to post losses.

Oh, yeah, can I have a little more info on those 150mm guns? You know, range, area of effect, turret housing...

Shenyang, your 19,800 missile attack has been ignored, after a discussion with the #nationstates guys. The number of planes and number of missiles fired are extreme number-wanks.

One more poorly rp'd action and you're out of this thread.
I thought I told you that if you want to eject me then go for it... wait I did right here:
...Lastly kick me out if you want, this war is, as my band teacher would put it, dragging terribly.
It certainly took you long enough to formulate that response about my attack. All this war seems to do is suck up all my time recently. (hinting *go for it, eject me I really don't give*) Just remember that if I get ejected you can (are expected to) assume my land doesn't exist for the duration of the war. So you'd have to ignore a few thousand sq. miles of strategically placed land.
I think that sums it up for now.

Because my ships were lined up in a manner so the battleships were in the front line. READ my post please.

I would like you guys to post losses.

Look, I agree with the logic about the battleships being hit with missiles and once you explained it said that a reasonbale amount had hit, fine. My real issue is the fact that you think that just beucase your ships are lined up with the Battleships in front does not men that only your battleships were hit.

Each missile is assigned a target by the AEGIS system prior to being launched, now in my post I said that each ship had been targetted individually. Given, the battleships and carriers warranted more missiles, but the fact remains that it is absurd to think that all of by 2,500 missiles locked onto your Battleships when they were assigne dother targets or that I assigned every last one to hit your battleships.

I'm getting around to posting my losses, but I would like you to post all the losses that the missiles would have incurred on your frigates, destroyers, cruisers and carriers and other auxilliary ships. Your Battleships do not form an impenetrable wall that missiles cannot bypass, especially when it has been targetted on another ship deeper in the formation.

Look, I agree with the logic about the battleships being hit with missiles and once you explained it said that a reasonbale amount had hit, fine. My real issue is the fact that you think that just beucase your ships are lined up with the Battleships in front does not men that only your battleships were hit.

Each missile is assigned a target by the AEGIS system prior to being launched, now in my post I said that each ship had been targetted individually. Given, the battleships and carriers warranted more missiles, but the fact remains that it is absurd to think that all of by 2,500 missiles locked onto your Battleships when they were assigne dother targets or that I assigned every last one to hit your battleships.

I'm getting around to posting my losses, but I would like you to post all the losses that the missiles would have incurred on your frigates, destroyers, cruisers and carriers and other auxilliary ships. Your Battleships do not form an impenetrable wall that missiles cannot bypass, especially when it has been targetted on another ship deeper in the formation.

I didn't say they locked onto my battleships. But, my battleships were arranged so that the missiles would have to get past the battleships first, then get past the cruisers, then destroyers, then carriers. Sure, maybe some got past, but these were accounted for by my CIWS system.

And again, FSM still is going to RP his damages.

Post your losses so far please.

I thought I told you that if you want to eject me then go for it... wait I did right here:

It certainly took you long enough to formulate that response about my attack. All this war seems to do is suck up all my time recently. (hinting *go for it, eject me I really don't give*) Just remember that if I get ejected you can (are expected to) assume my land doesn't exist for the duration of the war. So you'd have to ignore a few thousand sq. miles of strategically placed land.
I think that sums it up for now.

So be it. You're out.

Doomingsland's attack is ignored, due to the fact that the Deadfish II missile is larger than the airplane carrying it.

I've ignored it as well. Time to continue Rping then.

Doomingsland's attack is ignored, due to the fact that the Deadfish II missile is larger than the airplane carrying it.
The Deadfish II is ship launched, please post losses. Oh, and the LSLRMs alone would've killed their targets in about one hit, losses from those would be nice, as well.

The Deadfish II is ship launched, please post losses. Oh, and the LSLRMs alone would've killed their targets in about one hit, losses from those would be nice, as well.

you didn't give a number.

and the lslrms are ineffective as well (which will be explained soon).

Fine we'll RP through it, but you'll be extremely disappointed.

please tell wirraway to post his losses as well, and call Nikolaos too.

Your losses from Nikolaos' attack were definately godmodly. You completely ignored the some 5,000+ ship launched ASMs. Apparently, you didn't read correctly: The deadfish I's were airplane launched from both of us, the deadfish IIs were ship launched. I'm expected extremely high losses (around total annihilation) unless you can stop 10,000+ mach 3 ASMs (combined) from hitting your relatively small fleet. Yes, I'm aware that you'd have a better reaction time, but with the amount of missiles being launched, you wouldn't stand much of a chance.

Your losses from Nikolaos' attack were definately godmodly. You completely ignored the some 5,000+ ship launched ASMs. Apparently, you didn't read correctly: The deadfish I's were airplane launched from both of us, the deadfish IIs were ship launched. I'm expected extremely high losses (around total annihilation) unless you can stop 10,000+ mach 3 ASMs (combined) from hitting your relatively small fleet. Yes, I'm aware that you'd have a better reaction time, but with the amount of missiles being launched, you wouldn't stand much of a chance.

In fact, your attack is pretty much super wanked, and I was advised to ignore you completely by the #nationstates guys, but I'm being a good sport about it.

not godmodly at all. the CIWS can lock on well because the missiles are launched from so far away. My fleet is not relatively small, it's larger than yours and Nikolaos combined. Add FSM's to that and we outnumber you greatly.

Superwanked? In what way? Anyways, I'm having trouble finding your fleet numbers, can you repost them?

Superwanked? In what way? Anyways, I'm having trouble finding your fleet numbers, can you repost them?

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

I hope you're not serious. Those attacks are both number-wanked and tech-wanked.

Check out my sig, info is there, minus logistics and new additions.

No, I'm serious, I fail to see how it's number wanking. That is, unless your just saying that to get out of posting losses. How many of each fleet is participating in the battle?

No, I'm serious, I fail to see how it's number wanking. That is, unless your just saying that to get out of posting losses. How many of each fleet is participating in the battle?

Alright, I've been advised to accept your attack and raise my losses, but if you do not have appropriate losses to my response to your attack (which is yet to come, I'm busy right now), you will be ignored forever.

I hope I'm clear.

Don't worry, I'll make sure my losses are accurate.

This is to reply to JA's OOC comment about my fleet in the other thread. I dont need ships to carry foood you know. Onboard there is already food. Ammunation is not low since we havent used any at all except for the missiles and for oil we can always buy oil off Doomingsland same with ammunation.

This is to reply to JA's OOC comment about my fleet in the other thread. I dont need ships to carry foood you know. Onboard there is already food. Ammunation is not low since we havent used any at all except for the missiles and for oil we can always buy oil off Doomingsland same with ammunation.

You kinda do. Ships house food for short amount of time. You definitely needed more food than can be carried on your ships considering the long journey you've made (I doubt the IDF let you through the Suez Canal). The ship can only hold so much food, and at three meals a day, for several thousand men, the on ship stores won't last very long.

Doomingsland's ships will also take some time to reach your fleet (we're battling on the other side of the continent, away from Doomingsland), and they will be intercepted. You'll have to go through The Voltarum, FSM and my fleet to deliver supplies.

One other thing- could we get specs on your ships that aren't RL made?

[edit]There, losses were more than tripled.

Ok, losses are fair now, that's around 40 ships total. One thing though: how would my missiles miss simply because you moved your ships? Your ships are being tracked contantly, plus the hypersonics are GPS guided, so most of them would have found their targets. Now I'll wait for your attack, then I'll get to losses.

Ok, losses are fair now, that's around 40 ships total. One thing though: how would my missiles miss simply because you moved your ships? Your ships are being tracked contantly, plus the hypersonics are GPS guided, so most of them would have found their targets. Now I'll wait for your attack, then I'll get to losses.

GPS guidance is best for stationary targets. Plus at that speed and that low of an altitude, adjustments would be tough.

Could Nikolaos and Wirraway post their losses?

Wirraway hasn't been on in 4 days.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=368308&highlight=soviet+bloc+aircraft

Link to the F/A91, and it includes a discription on the wave cancellation stuff.

ships are not headed for your coast. your coast is on the other side of the continent, look at the map.

Fixed.

Did this die?

good question... was waiting for FSM or JA to post =\

Voltarum

Alright, this is getting pretty damned ridiculus. This war is keeping me from doing more RP's, and frankly, it's making NS a whole lot more boring. I've been more than reasonable, but I'm just gonna ignore the thing.

Let's let it die, I'm busy with SAT work.

OK, then, at least we agree on something.