NationStates Jolt Archive

We're going to move to 1895 pretty soon ...

Nobody seems to have seen the Germans in East Africa thread, which isn't really a problem. But essentially, the Germans take Mozambique, and the British take Malawi and Zimbabwe. Which constitutes one of the last Anglo-German agreements.

By 1895, the Germans will have the infrastructure to really begin their naval boom, with a huge fleetyard at Kiel and developing another fairly large one at Pola (on the Adriatic), with a small, secret testing bed for submarines at Danzig. Given their extensive Pacific territories, the Germans really want to get their navy up to snuff as quickly as possible.

Of course, this means that Britain will be increasing its naval budget as well, which will be seen to an extent in British Hannover (which has its own medium-sized fleetyard at Halifax ... and might be willing to commission ships for smaller nations).

And probably a crisis between Russia and Britain over Central Asia. Lots of fun stuff. :D

We're going to move to 1895 pretty soon ...

Nobody seems to have seen the Germans in East Africa thread, which isn't really a problem. But essentially, the Germans take Mozambique, and the British take Malawi and Zimbabwe. Which constitutes one of the last Anglo-German agreements.

By 1895, the Germans will have the infrastructure to really begin their naval boom, with a huge fleetyard at Kiel and developing another fairly large one at Pola (on the Adriatic), with a small, secret testing bed for submarines at Danzig. Given their extensive Pacific territories, the Germans really want to get their navy up to snuff as quickly as possible.

Of course, this means that Britain will be increasing its naval budget as well, which will be seen to an extent in British Hannover (which has its own medium-sized fleetyard at Halifax ... and might be willing to commission ships for smaller nations).

And probably a crisis between Russia and Britain over Central Asia. Lots of fun stuff. :D

Not to mention a Canal through Panama plan, a possible Panamanian Revolution, an Invasion of a few Latin American countries, a possible show-down between the US and Columbia.

by 1890s, steel warships are faster, better armored (for less weight) and have better guns... your ironclads are as obsolete as a world war II destroyer would be compared to a Spruance class...... better find somebody with a steel industry to buy from, or build one yourself (although your area doesn't have much iron ore)

I thought you meant IRONCLADS, because i always thought the dreadnought was the first steel warship.

And WTF is a Spruance Class? Im not much of a naval nut m'self. Im more of a 1940's-present day Light Weapondry and ammunition guy.

Not to mention a Canal through Panama plan, a possible Panamanian Revolution, an Invasion of a few Latin American countries, a possible show-down between the US and Columbia.



I thought you meant IRONCLADS, because i always thought the dreadnought was the first steel warship.

And WTF is a Spruance Class? Im not much of a naval nut m'self. Im more of a 1940's-present day Light Weapondry and ammunition guy.

first steel warships are in 1880s.... Britian first, followed by US, France, Russia, Germany and Japan (in that order).... also first breechloading cannons, quick firing cannons, practical machine guns (although still relatively unreliable until 1900), electricity on ships (searchlights etc)....

A Spruance class is a 1980 era destroyer with guided missiles and auto cannon with an engagement range of about 100 miles, while a WW2 destroyer is doing good to engage at about 5 miles... Ironclads generally have muzzle loading guns, accurate to about 1000 yards, steel warships have breechloading guns accurate at this point (1891) to about 3,000 yards (doesn't get any better until 1910s with central gunnary direction)

incidently, I am willing to accept Colombian expansion to the southern Mexican border from 1890 -1895 without a lot of US protest at first (unless Colombia starts nationalizing Dole Banana plantations).... but at that point, the US will start building up and getting nasty .... Texas gets very concerned when Colombia reaches the edge of Mexico as well.... I am willing to accept you have Hondaras (Spanish) but I don't think the British would have let you grab Belize (although not a lot there either).... also, remember, the Dutch, British and French have colonies east of Venezueala too (Surinam, Guyana and French Guyana), plus the Dutch have colonies in Aruba (islands just off the Venezulean coast that happen to have oil which will show up soon)

I think the Caribbean and Central America will get exciting soon

the US is going to suggest to British Hannover a military alliance.... basically aimed at ensuring Germany doesn't move into the Americas, and also aimed at Colombia (which seems to be expanding). This is so that US warships have access to British Hannover repair facilities on the West Coast (as they are better than California is likely to have).

If Germany wants to make a move on the Americas, Dixie might be a vulnerable target... they lack substantial heavy industry, have oil (which Germany will need a secure source), fought well in the Civil War (they won), and might make things exciting in North America if World War I starts

Conditions in world diplomacy have made British Hannoveran qualms about open alliance with the Americans virtually meaningless. The US have behaved themselves quite well and the old fears of expansionism by force are pretty much gone. Odds are such an alliance would be accepted readily. British Hannover maintains small production facilities and larger repair facilities in Vancouver for its Pacific Fleet, which might be due for expansion. The bigger facility by, far, however, is in the Atlantic, of course, at Halifax. By now, British Hannover has pretty much taken over traditional British patrolling in the North Atlantic.

And the people in British Hannover aren't particularly happy about the thought of expansionist Columbia. And, of course, the advantage of a military alliance w/British Hannover is that it indirectly strengthens ties with Britain, increasing the chance that Britain would aid the US in a war against Columbia.

The Republic of Texas now finds itself in the odd postion of being allied with the British Empire, which is now allied with the United States only a generation after the Civil War.

Oh well, Texas is expanding its naval base at Galveston and working on persuading the British and Yankees to make port visits. The Texas Navy is now completely a coastal defense force, with about a dozen torpedo boats (small 300 ton ships with 2 torpedoes and a few light quick firing cannons), a few revenue cutters (very lightly armed steamers) and three Civil War relic sloops that are wearing out.

At least the army is in good shape (good modern small arms, lots of experience fighting in the desert, mountains and plains), but weak in artillery.

So Texas is approaching France to get the new 75 mm (the famed French 75) which is just begun production.

Did the two Texas regiments (1 infantry and 1 cavalry) get any experience in the various British colonial wars? There is one going on in Burma about now, and yet another one in Afghanistan, plus the usual Northwest Frontier issues and some tribal skirmishes in the acquisition of Rhodesia (namd for Cecil Rhodes)

[tag] will post later

first steel warships are in 1880s.... Britian first, followed by US, France, Russia, Germany and Japan (in that order).... also first breechloading cannons, quick firing cannons, practical machine guns (although still relatively unreliable until 1900), electricity on ships (searchlights etc)....

A Spruance class is a 1980 era destroyer with guided missiles and auto cannon with an engagement range of about 100 miles, while a WW2 destroyer is doing good to engage at about 5 miles... Ironclads generally have muzzle loading guns, accurate to about 1000 yards, steel warships have breechloading guns accurate at this point (1891) to about 3,000 yards (doesn't get any better until 1910s with central gunnary direction)

OOOOOOHH!!

Well, to tell the truth, the Columbian navy was ne'er very advanced. I think i may begin upgrading them once i have a far-stretching empire that i need boats for(like when i take up to Mexico, or down to Peru or something.) In other words, dont expect my first Metal Warship to be made till around '94-95.

Uhm... can any one help me on giving good ideas for the Japanese Navy? I really can't find much that's pre WWII.

Uhm... can any one help me on giving good ideas for the Japanese Navy? I really can't find much that's pre WWII.

Im guessing not that large or powerful, because from what i remember Japan didnt REALLY start expanding till the 1930's.

Japan kicked China's butt to gain Korean influnce in 1894-95 and a decade later kicked Russia's butt...

Uhm... can any one help me on giving good ideas for the Japanese Navy? I really can't find much that's pre WWII.

Do searchs on the Sino-Japanese War and the Russo-Japanese War for good information... and I will see what I can find tonight. I posted earlier some links for information on world navies of the Victorian Age as well.

New Thread!

Serbian Nuts Kill Hungarian Prince!- http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=7436553#post7436553post7436553

Oil Discovered In Small Dutch Colony!- (coming)

Woot. Sino Japanese War, 1894: http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=7436654#post7436654

both the British and Americans historically had naval observers on the scene for the Sino-Japanese war, expecting the relatively new Chinese ships under foreign trained officers to defeat the relatively new Japanese ships under Japanese trained officers..... turns out they were REALLY wrong.

Historically, Japan took over Korea and Porth Arthur (Shaintoung Pennisula) and parts of Manchuria, only to have Germany and Russia threaten to intervene .... the Germans got Liaotiang out of it, while the Russians got domination over Manchuria and Shaintoung, and favored status in Korea and forced the Japanese out.

Japan was not amused, allied with the British and 10 years later taught the Russians a lesson. They got revenge on Germany in World War I.

That much I do know. I just don't know much about what type of ships they have.

That much I do know. I just don't know much about what type of ships they have.

http://www.russojapanesewar.com/pre-war.html

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=japanese+navy+1894&fr=FP-tab-web-t&toggle=1

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=japanese+navy+1894&fr=FP-tab-web-t&toggle=1

the short answer is that they had some pretty good ones....

by the way, the machine gun is finally reaching infantry units in Europe, the US and Japan. At this point they are finally the belt fed machine guns you are likely to be familiar with in movies, although they frequently jam, and nobody knows really if they belong to the infantry or artillery, so not many are around yet.

Modern quick firing artillery is now breechloading, has a direct fire range of several thousand yards (although accuracy suffers at sea because of a lack of gun directors and centralized control), and howitzers can now shoot farther than can be directed by line of sight (first artillery spotting systems are still be developed).

Im no use in those two threads...

BLARG...

The 'small Dutch colony' is Aruba ... which happens to be right off of Venezuela. Just let me write the damned thing. :D

Halibris- Another AIM talk may be in order.
Phoenesia- Same w/you.
Tellacar- Well, I know where to reach you.
Kanor- do you have AIM?
Galveston- I know you don't have AIM, do you have MSN?

There's a small, but real chance that this whole Tellacar crap might mean a general war. I'd like to have a chat with all of the European powers (plus the US and Japan) before something like that happens.

New Shiron / Galveston Bay response to AIM/MSN.... I will see tonight if MSN works without causing a crash, otherwise, stuck with Yahoo IM

definitely can't instant message 8 - 5 M-F Pacific Time, by the way, I will be unavailable starting Wednesday night through Friday night because I have to go watch my son graduate from Marine Corps Boot Camp in San Diego (I am the proud papa)

I'll be on AIM now, okay?

And congrats, Galveston.

Oh yeah, I'll be using another SN, 'MayoCount'.

Hmmmm, looks like im not going to be very important...

Why do i always pick the least most important places to put stuff? WHY?!?!?!

New Shiron / Galveston Bay response to AIM/MSN.... I will see tonight if MSN works without causing a crash, otherwise, stuck with Yahoo IM

definitely can't instant message 8 - 5 M-F Pacific Time, by the way, I will be unavailable starting Wednesday night through Friday night because I have to go watch my son graduate from Marine Corps Boot Camp in San Diego (I am the proud papa)

Congrats to you and your sonz0rz.

Now if only he was a LT. General...

think of all the possibilities...

Lightning Star, did Colombia annex / seize Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Honduras, Guatemala? How are relations with British Guiana (Guyana today), Dutch Guiana (Surinam) or French Guiana?

How is Colombia's relations with Ecuador and Peru?

we are moving from 1890 to 1895, so what has Colombia done in the intervening time as far as expansion goes?

The US annexed Hawaii, the Brits and Germans carved up southeastern Africa, Germany acquired the Philippines, Cuba is now independent (under US protection)

and thanks all for the congrads.... I am just relieved my son made it through

Regarding IM Stuff ... sorry about that. Rather important stuff came up. And I also give you my congrats, Galveston. And in any case, the Serbian thing doesn't look to be going towards a war right now anyway.

I don't have AIM and i'm not sure if MSN works on my new computer

Lightning Star, did Colombia annex / seize Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Honduras, Guatemala? How are relations with British Guiana (Guyana today), Dutch Guiana (Surinam) or French Guiana?

How is Colombia's relations with Ecuador and Peru?

we are moving from 1890 to 1895, so what has Colombia done in the intervening time as far as expansion goes?

The US annexed Hawaii, the Brits and Germans carved up southeastern Africa, Germany acquired the Philippines, Cuba is now independent (under US protection)

and thanks all for the congrads.... I am just relieved my son made it through


1. We had Costa Rica annexed in 1880's(you should REALLY read my descriptions some time.) We have took Nicaragua in 1892, and we are currently in the middle of a war with Honduras(which began in 1884. We're winning but have taken very heavy casualties.)

1b. Relations with British Guiana , Dutch Guiana , and French Guiana are all very stable, although Venezuelan rebels are known to have fled or have small bases in British Guiana in particular.

2. Columbias relationship with Peru is very stable and the two countries do alot of trading. Relations with Ecuador, however, have been very shaky. There was a brief wae(2 months) from September to Novermber 1893, in which Columbia captured the Sucumbios, Carchi, Imbaburba, and Esmeraldas provinces.

3. Besides all the wars going on, the nation has made a few leaps. The first Steel Warship, the Cristobal, was christend this spring in 1895. There are currently 7 Cristobal Class ships in the navy. Also, Venezuela rebeled (again), and a cease-fire is currently underway(it expires in 2 months).

All this fighting has caused a tremendous strain on the country, causing massive riots in cities all over the nation. The Emperor has had to resort to enslaving Hondurans and using them to work while more men are forced into the army.

Colombia, what kind of steel warships did you acquire / build?

1895 ships
Battleship 11000 tons, 17 knot speed crew about 500, 4 x 12 inch guns, 8 x 8 inch guns, several lighter guns
cost expensive (like buying a modern nuclear ballistic missile submarine or large destroyer or small carrier)

Armored cruiser 10000 tons, 20 knot speed, crew about 350, 8 x 8 inch guns (varied significantly), 8 - 12 5 or 6 inch guns, several lighter guns,
cost expensive (about as much as a battleship)

protected cruiser 3 - 7000 tons, 12 - 21 knots, crew 200 - 300, 8 - 10 guns between 5 - 8 inches (varied widely), numerous lighter guns, later models carry torpedo tubes (usually 2 - 4)
cost less expensive but still not cheap (like buying a modern destroyer or attack submarine)

gunboats 800 - 1500 tons, 12 - 18 knots, crew 100 - 200, 2 - 4 5 or 6 inch guns, numerous smaller guns, relatively short range, not good in heavy weather (like buying a modern frigate in cost)

torpedo boats 100 - 200 tons, 20 - 25 knots, crew 12 - 20, 2 or 4 torpedo tubes, 2 -4 very light cannon, relatively short range, not good in heavy weather (like buying a modern patrol boat in cost)

building times have been covered elsewhere in the thread, but to build these ships you must have a good steel industry, modern shipbuilding docks, an electric industry, and the skilled educational base to man the more complex positions (about 30% - 50% of the crew must have a high school education or better)

the days of wooden ships and iron men (or iron ships and iron men in this case) are over...... for an example of what happens when you have good ships (bought elsewhere) but inadequate crews, look up what happened to the Chinese when they fought the Japanese in 1895

Colombia, what kind of steel warships did you acquire / build?

1895 ships
Battleship 11000 tons, 17 knot speed crew about 500, 4 x 12 inch guns, 8 x 8 inch guns, several lighter guns
cost expensive (like buying a modern nuclear ballistic missile submarine or large destroyer or small carrier)

Armored cruiser 10000 tons, 20 knot speed, crew about 350, 8 x 8 inch guns (varied significantly), 8 - 12 5 or 6 inch guns, several lighter guns,
cost expensive (about as much as a battleship)

protected cruiser 3 - 7000 tons, 12 - 21 knots, crew 200 - 300, 8 - 10 guns between 5 - 8 inches (varied widely), numerous lighter guns, later models carry torpedo tubes (usually 2 - 4)
cost less expensive but still not cheap (like buying a modern destroyer or attack submarine)

gunboats 800 - 1500 tons, 12 - 18 knots, crew 100 - 200, 2 - 4 5 or 6 inch guns, numerous smaller guns, relatively short range, not good in heavy weather (like buying a modern frigate in cost)

torpedo boats 100 - 200 tons, 20 - 25 knots, crew 12 - 20, 2 or 4 torpedo tubes, 2 -4 very light cannon, relatively short range, not good in heavy weather (like buying a modern patrol boat in cost)

building times have been covered elsewhere in the thread, but to build these ships you must have a good steel industry, modern shipbuilding docks, an electric industry, and the skilled educational base to man the more complex positions (about 30% - 50% of the crew must have a high school education or better)

the days of wooden ships and iron men (or iron ships and iron men in this case) are over...... for an example of what happens when you have good ships (bought elsewhere) but inadequate crews, look up what happened to the Chinese when they fought the Japanese in 1895


The Cristobal Steel Warships are Gunboats. The Shipbuilding docks at Cartagena are the only modern shipbuilding docks in the country(and even then they arent as good as a British one would be, but they're still good.), The ships are manned by Columbians(thus meaning high education for most of the men), the nation does have an electric industry(albeit a small one), and we have a steel industry(the steel is mostly from trading OR conquest.).

That being said, the ships arent top o' the line, but they're still there. Plus, the Sailors arent the best in the world, but they're good.

Are we in 1895 now?
because if so I have a submarine ;)

Are we in 1895 now?
because if so I have a submarine ;)

first operational submarine accepted by a navy... USS Holland 1901
(first submarine to have electric batteries and gasoline (shudder) engines for submerged and surface cruising, and to be able to fire torpedoes from torpedo tubes .... previous Holland attempts start in 1877 before finally being accepted as relatively practical and safe (as in not suicidal) in 1895

but soon, really soon

Question: Who's Australia? :confused:

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7447627&postcount=7

The Delfino Class was launched in 1892
We are in 1895 now aren't we

I'll give the Australians a link to this thread. And yes, we are in 1895 ... although Galveston says the first PRACTICAL submarine. Maybe that submarine was crap or something. The Germans are experimenting with submarines at Danzig, but they're not going to be building a fleet probably until the turn of the century.

Well seeing as it's 1895 there is no Commonwelath of Australia, just the disunited colonies. Although they were all paranoid about invasion (from Russians, Americans, Chinese, French, Japanese etc...) and were avoudly racist towards Asians.

Commonwealth of Australia could be created five years early, heh. It was in 1900 or 1901, no? And yeah, I know the Australians were avowedly racist towards Asians (so was pretty much everyone ... lots of ugly sentiment in Canada and the US too) but the Japanese alliance is frankly essential to British interests. Considering that Russia and Germany and Italy are allies ... the British kind of have to take them as they get.

most of the Yellow Peril stuff in Australia didn't get really started until after the Russo Japanese War, just immigration restrictions prior to that.. and the same thing is occuring in the Pacific Republic (California, Washington, Oregon, Nevada, plus their territories in Alaska, Arizona, Idaho, and Montana)

Sorry about things being really sluggish the last few days ... but I've been busy as hell with schoolwork. When this is all over (early next week), expect some big stuff to go down. :D

well, I am back... am I to get the impression that Italy has Captain Nemo working for them? (referring to the submarine that dissappeared for a year in the items of interest thread)

Maybe its time to scoot up to 1900, have Japan win the war against China, and then lose the peace to Germany and Russia (setting the stage for the Russo-Japanese War), Boxer Rebellion should start up soon, Texas gets clobbered by a bad storm, Colombia soldifies its control over Hondurus and moves to the next two central American nations, California insults Japan (exclusion acts), big oil discovery in Texas, Louisiana and Oklahoma, an early revolution in Turkey (setting the stage for a Russian move)... lots of possibilities there... and the first Zepplins should be soon too (maybe a little early but they are so much fun)

well, I am back... am I to get the impression that Italy has Captain Nemo working for them? (referring to the submarine that dissappeared for a year in the items of interest thread)

Maybe its time to scoot up to 1900, have Japan win the war against China, and then lose the peace to Germany and Russia (setting the stage for the Russo-Japanese War), Boxer Rebellion should start up soon, Texas gets clobbered by a bad storm, Colombia soldifies its control over Hondurus and moves to the next two central American nations, California insults Japan (exclusion acts), big oil discovery in Texas, Louisiana and Oklahoma, an early revolution in Turkey (setting the stage for a Russian move)... lots of possibilities there... and the first Zepplins should be soon too (maybe a little early but they are so much fun)

Woah woah woah woah WOAH! This is progressing WWWWWAAAAAAYYYYYYYY too fast! We need a system. All this random time-jumping hurtses my head...

Texas is laying the groundwork story wise for the 1900 Storm, which killed 8,000 people (estimated, all the dead were never found and for that matter many were never identified) which I intend to have hit Galveston (the principal port for Texas) when at a critical time when there is a crisis in Central America or the Colombians reach the southern border of Mexico, whichever is more interesting... this will essentally wreck the Texans ability to do anything at sea for a year or so, and trigger other things in Texas (Houston Ship Channel for one thing)

Lightning Star, is Colombia going to move against other Central American countries or beat up the Dutch and take their oil rich island?

bump

It didn't stay submerged the whole time we have a secret dock in Libya

Do we have a Confederacy yet? I seem to recall someone expressing interest.

bump

where is everyone? What is Russia up too? Or France? and what happened to our other players?

Yeah ... that person seems to be MIA. And I'm sorry about the relative limpness the last few days. But things are clearing up a lot on the school front. Just hope I did well on those essays. *crosses fingers*

But, it looks like we might very well be moving to 1900, with a Japan who feels cheated out of the real prize after the Sino-Japanese War in 1895. As well, the Germans are quite well established as the premier continental power. Their allies might be interested in using the immense power of the Reich to back up their own designs. While Germany's extremely powerful, it can't be afford to be friendless.

The Balkans is going to be a trouble zone. The French and British are probably going to really want to keep the Ottoman Empire alive, or at least a reasonably strong Turkish state, because the Germans and Russians have such a strong Balkans presence. Tellacar's in HUGE trouble ... it's going to need diplomatic guarantees from Britain and France if it wants to survive.

The French are probably going to find themselves forced to rearm. Of course, that's an RP issue ... but if the French want to be a credible counterweight to Germany in Europe, they're going to have to build up their army in a big way. They do, however, have a Spanish ally, which isn't a really big deal but every little bit helps.

The United States might find itself faced with a stark choice between isolationism at the cost of a Germany-ruled Europe or more officially coming on side with the French and British and Japanese. The British are going to be forced to beef up their army and navy considerably because the rather larger German Empire of our timeline is going to be wanting to start building up its navy in a really big way. With a larger and more valuable colonial empire, they have a need as well as a desire to take to the waves.

Britain and Russia are going to start having real troubles on the borders. The British were always paranoid about the Russians taking over India, and it's possible that the threat might be more tangible in this reality. Lots of stuff going on.

The US and Texas are going to start pressuring Colombia... they aren't happy with the moves up Central America, or the move into Puerto Rico, and the Panama Canal is becoming a more pressing need.

This US has become a maritime power a little earlier than OTL, as it doesnt have a big issue with the frontier like it did historically, and by this point, the Confederacy, California and Texas are becoming de facto commercial outposts of the US even though they remain independent.

Without the Panama Canal, Whutefeckhia has become critical to US interests, and Germany dominating Europe bothers the US as much as Napoleon dominating Europe bothered the US (which was a real concern for many Americans during the Napoleonic War, the War of 1812 notwithstanding)

British Ultimatum To Columbia- http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=7484429

The British are hardly amused with Columbia either. They'd rather like to chop it up into bite-sized pieces so they can focus their forces on a rather more immediately threatening foe.

I am setting the stage for the Maine to blow up (how can you pass on an opportunity to have a slogan like "remember the Maine")

this will trigger a war...

plus Teddy Roosevelt (who has the support of the President) is looking for a "Splendid Little War" since a war with Spain didn't pan out.

ok Lightning Star, here is your chance to make a splash...

Mexico is about to have a Civil War, Guetamala and El Salvador are already in Civil War, and the Dutch are weak. The US and Texas have relatively small armies, the Confederacy is isolationist (since we don't have a player apparently) and British Hannover and the Yankees are viewing you with deep suspecion and are about to violate your soveriegnity with gunboat diplomacy.

bump

bump

OOC> ... where is Lightning Star, anyway?

OOC> ... where is Lightning Star, anyway?

I sent him a telegram, he replied saying he has been busy and apologizing... so don't know

Big Stuff Going Down!:

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=7500154#post7500154post7500154

I am going to assume that the situation in Central America and Mexico is occuring in 1899 as well (to keep the timeline current)....

are the French, Italians, Japanese, and Russians still with us? How about Tellacar? What happened to Estholand (Scandic country) and Elias (mideast country)?

I'm Still here but i have exams soon so can't get on the computer as much

`Tis okay. Exams might explain the drop-off in activity ... even though I don't have mine until mid-December. Must be different in other countries.

Sorry I haven't been so active. I'll get on this a bit more.

I have too much stuff going on right now, vacations and end of year work. I cant get on often enough to do anything and i wont be able too until after new years. Feel free to RP russia.

That's unfortunate, but thanks for telling us. Wish you luck with all that stuff.

Is it too late to get in on this I think I could have fun playing as India or Poland if they haven't been called. Oh and btw don't take my lack of posts as a negative thing. I've done a lot of observing on these boards

Is it too late to get in on this I think I could have fun playing as India or Poland if they haven't been called. Oh and btw don't take my lack of posts as a negative thing. I've done a lot of observing on these boards

Poland was owned by Germany and Russia in 1895 (plus Austria but they are gone already) and India was part of the British Empire.... apparently Russia is now available... read further back in the thread for a description of Russia

If you're really interested in being India in an RP, you might end up getting a chance with my next NationStates RP project. As for this one ... yeah, Russia's available. Just take a look at the bio, make some changes if you want to and submit it if that's what you'd like. The CSA (Confederate States of America) is also a good choice for a player state or Turkey if you want to RP a place that's in desperate straits indeed.

The application has to be approved before you can post, of course. But it hasn't been a huge problem so far.

Might I join in as Denmark or the CSA? Though, I must ask how the CSA is available in 1895 unless you rp'd a Confederate victory to the American Civil War.

You're welcome to apply as either. Look back a bit in this thread to get an idea regarding what an application should look like exactly. And yeah, the Confederates did win the Civil War in this RP. Altough it's a rather diminished Confederacy, as Texas and Arkansas were seperated from it.

The Kingdom of Yr Widdfa
Location: Scandinavia

Culture: Western with Celtic Influence

History: Welsh Separatists fled to Denmark in the late 17th Century. They gained an alliance with the upper Scandinavian nations and with their aid took over Denmark. After this they managed to mold the Scandinavian kingdoms into a tight Confederacy based at Caer Myrddin, Denmark.

Economy: Mining is a major industry in the iron rich region. Tariffs on any trade going in to or out of the Baltic is also a major contributor. The fur trade has also became a leading industry. Slavery is illegal and the short, if existent, growing season makes farming only a subsistence industry with little export in that area.

Government: A Constitutional Monarchy based loosely on the English system.

Accepted. I think Denmarks population at this time was about 3 million, including the Danish possessions of Iceland and Greenland. Although Denmark is actually a major exporter of agricultural products IRL, especially dairy. I'm not sure if you'd be able to enforce a Baltic tariff ... especially being a little peninsula and some islands connected to the most powerful nation in Europe. Although Copenhagen is a major trading port. Although Denmark was quite prosperous ... thriving light industry and good agriculture.

Iceland is mostly useful because it gives you access to good fishing waters, same with Greenland although there's a bit of copper there too. The Danish army was good for the country's size, it could raise about 50,000 or so troops (probably about 80,000 or so in a really dire emergency) and it had a decent navy.

I didn't actually know about the Agricultural exports. Thanks.

Oh fornicating snap.... I completely forgot about this. What'd I miss?

Well, it depends from when you last posted. There's a war just starting between the Colombian Empire and the US, Texas, Britain, the Netherlands and British Hannover. Which, as you can imagine, is important to your interests. The German Kaiser was assassinated and it looks like there will be an invasion of Tellacar, but most of the powers are distracted by the Colombian issue. Japan and China had a war, which the Japanese won, but they lost the peace and are really bitter towards Russia and Germany.

I think that's most of the really important stuff.

are we ready for a sea battle?

Colombian thread...

ok, here is how things work in 1899 ...

large caliber guns (10 inch or bigger) have a range of about 10,000 yards, but don't really hit much until about 2,000 yards (no telescopic sights yet or gunnery direction centers or the the like) but a hit will penetrate any armor of the period or earlier

medium caliber guns (5 - 9 inch) about 8000 yards, but same effective range (2000 yards) for the same reasons. They will also penetrate most armor except for the conning towers of armored cruisers and battleships, as well as the turrets (just as heavily armored) and the magazines (only a large caliber can penetrate that deep on the armored cruisers or battleships)

light caliber guns (4 inch down to 1 pdr) wont penetrate armor but will damage protected cruisers or lighter, and will take out exposed systems and people

torpedoes have an effective range of about 1,000 yards and will hit about half the time (assuming the firing ship lives long enough to fire them)

Armored Cruisers (7 -9,000 tons, 15 - 20 knot speed)and Battleships (10 - 12,000 tons) are relatively heavily armored, while the protected cruisers (3 -6000 tons) and large iron clads (4 - 10,000 tons) are weakly armored (either because they don't have much or because its iron instead of steel)

gunboats, torpedo boats and some ironclads are essentially unarmored for this purpose.

In 1898, the US Navy at Manila Bay and off Santiago Cuba utterly destroyed 2 Spanish fleets consisting of ironclads and weakly armored protected cruisers without suffering any significant damage and with few casualties (mostly to heat stroke) but used up half their ammunition to do so. Worked out to be a hit for every 4- 50 shells fired.

bump

based on likely accuracy, the Colombians will have damaged some of the US battleships, but as the US has more heavy guns, the US will have scored more hits so Colombia damage is probably about right (1 ship sinking) and US damage is probably superfecial (but some casaulties) but by the time the US cruisers go in, they (the Colombians) will be in big trouble. The gunboats are unarmored and slower than the cruisers and have fewer guns and these are mostly lighter.. they will most likely get some hits on the American cruisers, and damage a couple heavily but will be blasted to pieces in return.

As far as torpedo attacks go, the torpedoes of this era have about a 1 in 4 chance of hitting something, but nobody has torpedo bulges and compartmentalization sucks, so a torpedo hit may very well sink just about anything and even two will likely sink a battleship.

So the US fires 24 torpedoes and probably gets a hit on each of the Colombian Protected Cruisers and the Colombians fire four torpedoes and probably get one hit on the British ship. Most likely 4 Colombian cruisers sunk and a British BB having to be towed home.

By the way guys, we aren't in the fight to the finish period of naval warfare yet, so surrendering is an option for warships of the period (Spanish in 1898, Russians in 1905). Even if the officers won't the crews might if they think the situation is hopeless.

1899 RP-update
Independant Nation

Confederacy of Whutehfeckia

Head of State: William Schultz
Head of Government: Luther Berg

Population: 9 million

Location: South America, specifically Straits of Magellan, and frontier land in Patagonia

Military
Army: 89,000, small divisions of Engineering corps, and a freshly created Aeronautical-Reconnaissance corps
Navy: Small, about 30 ships altogether, including the flagship CWF Mercury-A, made in 1880. Mostly mid-'80s technology, but an old ironclad, the CWF Errol, is still using for training of cadets.

Culture: Whutehfeckia is an old Dutch colony, which gained it's independance in the mid-1600s during troubles in Europe. It's mainly composed of Dutch, German, English, and native ethnic groups. Some tensions have begun between the Germans and the English, but rioting and fighting have been supressed by the mainly Dutch-controlled government.

Misc: Recently, a rigid airship has been produced for the government, with the cooperation of the German Count Zeppelin. Increasing concern is being focused on the now inevitable-to-be-made Panama Canal, with the best Whutehfeckian Diplomacy being used in that area, to save the country from total economic collapse.

Colombian War -- US actions... the US places the entirity of the Colombian coast both Caribbean and Pacific under blockade, and reinforces its holds at Puerto Rico and Panama. Both sets of people will be informed that the US is there to liberate them. Basically, about 12,000 troops every two weeks arrive in Panama, (maximum deployment is 60,000) while additional troops from Texas and the US secure Puerto Rico. The US seizes the Galapagos Islands for use as a coaling station. If Whutefeckia asks, the island chain will be given to them as payment for assistance at Colon.

The US also obtained some war prizes after the Battle of Mosquito Gulf, and these will either recommissioned or used as targets. Prize money is split 40 -40 - 20 with US/British and British Hannover/Whutefeckia

The US lost 7 torpedo boats sunk, 3 protected cruisers and 1 battleship damaged to the point were extensive repairs are needed, and every other ship took light damage. It also discovered the need for better destroyers and cruisers and is studying the idea of the all big gun warship (the Dreadnought). The British probably would also as they would have seen the same problems. Still, it will take to 1906 for the first one to show up as improvements to gunnery control are taking place at the same time.

The overall US strategy is to isolate Colombian forces further up in Central America from supply using the blockade and by taking Panama City, and as there as no roads capable of handling supplies from Colombia to Panama, the Colombians on the Colombian side of the US controlled area will melt away from disease and starvation or retreat, while the process also occurs in Central America. The US will continue to add troops and will launch further amphibious landings after Puerto Rico is secure and Panama City is taken.

The alliance between Texas and the USA will lead to a treaty of incorporation and the Republic of Texas and its four states will rejoin the US. The 1900 Storm will accelerate that process (and need for the Texans to build a ship channel connecting Houston to the Gulf of Mexico, something Texas can't do alone).

Colombian War -- US actions... the US places the entirity of the Colombian coast both Caribbean and Pacific under blockade, and reinforces its holds at Puerto Rico and Panama. Both sets of people will be informed that the US is there to liberate them. Basically, about 12,000 troops every two weeks arrive in Panama, (maximum deployment is 60,000) while additional troops from Texas and the US secure Puerto Rico. The US seizes the Galapagos Islands for use as a coaling station. If Whutefeckia asks, the island chain will be given to them as payment for assistance at Colon.

The US also obtained some war prizes after the Battle of Mosquito Gulf, and these will either recommissioned or used as targets. Prize money is split 40 -40 - 20 with US/British and British Hannover/Whutefeckia

The US lost 7 torpedo boats sunk, 3 protected cruisers and 1 battleship damaged to the point were extensive repairs are needed, and every other ship took light damage. It also discovered the need for better destroyers and cruisers and is studying the idea of the all big gun warship (the Dreadnought). The British probably would also as they would have seen the same problems. Still, it will take to 1906 for the first one to show up as improvements to gunnery control are taking place at the same time.

The overall US strategy is to isolate Colombian forces further up in Central America from supply using the blockade and by taking Panama City, and as there as no roads capable of handling supplies from Colombia to Panama, the Colombians on the Colombian side of the US controlled area will melt away from disease and starvation or retreat, while the process also occurs in Central America. The US will continue to add troops and will launch further amphibious landings after Puerto Rico is secure and Panama City is taken.

The alliance between Texas and the USA will lead to a treaty of incorporation and the Republic of Texas and its four states will rejoin the US. The 1900 Storm will accelerate that process (and need for the Texans to build a ship channel connecting Houston to the Gulf of Mexico, something Texas can't do alone).


Um, taking Galapagos will be REALLY hard(i have 55 ships there, twice as much as off of the coast of Panama. The main difference though is that the Galapagos fleet is WAY better secured.

Taking Panama city will also be hard, seeing how it is heavily foritified(with modern forts) and is at a tactical advantage. Attacking by land from colon would be near impossible seeing how they have to go over a large, and i mean LARGE, mountain range to get there. And the mountain range is protected by 12,000 Columbian Shock troopers, which are better trained an armed than even BRITISH Marines(although they are in alot smaller numbers.)

I am gone for the next three days, but here is what the US is doing:

Blockade of Colombian Pacific and Caribbean ports, including laying mines to keep them closed. (should take a few weeks to complete mining operations)

Full mobilization of USA, will take about 3 months, but the US Army including National Guard will have about 30 divisions (roughly 600,000 men) plus necessary corps and army headquarters. US Army also creates several engineer brigades and support units. These will go to Colon to upgrade that port as well as to Puerto Rico.

Marine Corps creates two brigades, one for the Atlantic and one for the Pacific to prepare for amphibious and raiding missions.

diplomatic efforts made to isolate Colombia by recruiting Peru and Brazil, as well as El Salvador and Chile.

Covert money and support given to any rebel movements in the Colombian Empire.

Bridgehead at Colon expanded as troops become available (eventually 60,000 men after 2 months) and push out from there to secure railway line and highlands nearby. If resistance is weak, push forward to Panama City and lay seige to it.

After Puerto Rico is secured, it is given choice of independence or annexation as a US territory or a third choice... US tries to persuade Cuba and Puerto Rico and Santa Domingo to form a federation/confederation of Spanish speaking Caribbean states (opportunity for a player country to be created here). US will guarantee is independence.

Probes along the Caribbean coast to discover weak points.

Major naval raid by battleline to shell port facilities at all Colombia Caribbean ports (thus preventing any rebuilding of a Colombian navy).

Additional ships sent to the Pacific to reinforce Pacific Fleet

Major building campaign in US to produce torpedo boat destroyers (first one to show up in 1900), and a new class of vessel, the light cruiser (better armored and faster protected cruiser).

lay groudwork for Political unification of Pacific Republic and Texas (Texas first) with USA

Get Pacific Republic to join in against Colombia (using extensive US business investment as the goad plus bribery... Californian politicians were notoriously corrupt during this period)

US also strongly condemns the German invasion of Tellacar but otherwise remains neutral (one war at a time)

I would think invading a Slavic state would disturb the Russians greatly by the way.

I am gone for the next three days, but here is what the US is doing:

Blockade of Colombian Pacific and Caribbean ports, including laying mines to keep them closed. (should take a few weeks to complete mining operations)

Full mobilization of USA, will take about 3 months, but the US Army including National Guard will have about 30 divisions (roughly 600,000 men) plus necessary corps and army headquarters. US Army also creates several engineer brigades and support units. These will go to Colon to upgrade that port as well as to Puerto Rico.

Marine Corps creates two brigades, one for the Atlantic and one for the Pacific to prepare for amphibious and raiding missions.

diplomatic efforts made to isolate Colombia by recruiting Peru and Brazil, as well as El Salvador and Chile.

Covert money and support given to any rebel movements in the Colombian Empire.

Bridgehead at Colon expanded as troops become available (eventually 60,000 men after 2 months) and push out from there to secure railway line and highlands nearby. If resistance is weak, push forward to Panama City and lay seige to it.

After Puerto Rico is secured, it is given choice of independence or annexation as a US territory or a third choice... US tries to persuade Cuba and Puerto Rico and Santa Domingo to form a federation/confederation of Spanish speaking Caribbean states (opportunity for a player country to be created here). US will guarantee is independence.

Probes along the Caribbean coast to discover weak points.

Major naval raid by battleline to shell port facilities at all Colombia Caribbean ports (thus preventing any rebuilding of a Colombian navy).

Additional ships sent to the Pacific to reinforce Pacific Fleet

Major building campaign in US to produce torpedo boat destroyers (first one to show up in 1900), and a new class of vessel, the light cruiser (better armored and faster protected cruiser).

lay groudwork for Political unification of Pacific Republic and Texas (Texas first) with USA

Get Pacific Republic to join in against Colombia (using extensive US business investment as the goad plus bribery... Californian politicians were notoriously corrupt during this period)

US also strongly condemns the German invasion of Tellacar but otherwise remains neutral (one war at a time)

I would think invading a Slavic state would disturb the Russians greatly by the way.


Check the columbia thing thread. I posted sometin important.

Also, Columbia may be forced to leave Panama, but only after fighting tooth and nail. Panama had been part of Columbia since inception, and thus is VERY important. Likewise Venezuela.

The rest of the stuff doesnt matter much.

Also, should someone RP your people for the next 3 days? Because the U.S. and Texas are REALLY important.

Check the columbia thing thread. I posted sometin important.

Also, Columbia may be forced to leave Panama, but only after fighting tooth and nail. Panama had been part of Columbia since inception, and thus is VERY important. Likewise Venezuela.

The rest of the stuff doesnt matter much.

Also, should someone RP your people for the next 3 days? Because the U.S. and Texas are REALLY important.

if British Hannover needs to, he can handle any US actions.... he knows my general strategy (as it is on the threads) and forces and I replied to your other thread.

if British Hannover needs to, he can handle any US actions.... he knows my general strategy (as it is on the threads) and forces and I replied to your other thread.

I replied to your reply :D

And ok.

US Forces in Colon (day 3 of the war) 1,000 US Marines (shipboard detachments) organized in a provisional regiment and located in newly fortified buildings with machine guns and light cannon

100 Texas Marines and 200 Texas Navy sailors with light cannon and machines co located with US Marines

2000 US Infantry (from US 1st Infantry Division) in 3 battalions (newly offloaded) in fortified buildings and with machine guns,

4 gunboats in harbor with 2 6 inch guns, 3 light 3 pdrs,
2 battleships with 13 inch guns, smaller guns..

plus about 3 - 4000 local militia plus whatever British and British Hannoverian marines and sailors and troops present.

US forces are deployed around the harbor area as a cordon holding a tight perimeter.... no civilian entry without pass or at night.. so they open up as soon as they see anybody with weapons charging them or trying to infilitrate...

their mission is to hold the docks until the remainder of the army arrives. rest of the city on its own...

happy thanksgiving all, see you saturday

US Forces in Colon (day 3 of the war) 1,000 US Marines (shipboard detachments) organized in a provisional regiment and located in newly fortified buildings with machine guns and light cannon

100 Texas Marines and 200 Texas Navy sailors with light cannon and machines co located with US Marines

2000 US Infantry (from US 1st Infantry Division) in 3 battalions (newly offloaded) in fortified buildings and with machine guns,

4 gunboats in harbor with 2 6 inch guns, 3 light 3 pdrs,
2 battleships with 13 inch guns, smaller guns..

plus about 3 - 4000 local militia plus whatever British and British Hannoverian marines and sailors and troops present.

US forces are deployed around the harbor area as a cordon holding a tight perimeter.... no civilian entry without pass or at night.. so they open up as soon as they see anybody with weapons charging them or trying to infilitrate...

their mission is to hold the docks until the remainder of the army arrives. rest of the city on its own...

happy thanksgiving all, see you saturday

K.

But how can the be in forts when 1, There were never any forts. 2, any large structures either burned down in the fire of 1885(which actually happend in RL) or in the smaller fire that i set?

And i said that my guys encountered your main force "Duh".

Oh, happy thanks giving!

Ah yes, there's the Thanksgiving gap. It's quite likely this phase of the war might involve quiet gathering of forces more than a lot of combat. In the case of the Colombian Pacific Fleet, that might warrant moving some ships out of Portsmouth, and by a few, I mean a few dozen. That, is, about half or so of the British Grand Fleet.

I would imagine the main strategy would be blockade at this point. Starving Colombia of trade would be devastating. And the way the Latin American economy worked, Colombia would rely quite heavily on exports. The Latin American countries didn't trade with each other nearly as much as they exported to other countries, with the main IRL markets being your current enemies.

About Germany ... Tellacar isn't really a Slavic state in the general consciousness. Its image is of a socialist state ... and the Germans plan to create an independent Serbia out of Tellacar. That is, they want to use the native-born Slavs against the socialist immigrants, who are the real enemy. But yeah, it might cause a rough patch with the Russians anyway.

Ah yes, there's the Thanksgiving gap. It's quite likely this phase of the war might involve quiet gathering of forces more than a lot of combat. In the case of the Colombian Pacific Fleet, that might warrant moving some ships out of Portsmouth, and by a few, I mean a few dozen. That, is, about half or so of the British Grand Fleet.

I would imagine the main strategy would be blockade at this point. Starving Colombia of trade would be devastating. And the way the Latin American economy worked, Colombia would rely quite heavily on exports. The Latin American countries didn't trade with each other nearly as much as they exported to other countries, with the main IRL markets being your current enemies.

About Germany ... Tellacar isn't really a Slavic state in the general consciousness. Its image is of a socialist state ... and the Germans plan to create an independent Serbia out of Tellacar. That is, they want to use the native-born Slavs against the socialist immigrants, who are the real enemy. But yeah, it might cause a rough patch with the Russians anyway.

Actually, now that everything is going to hell, the Columbians have another source of Income.

Plunder.

Ahh yes, seeing how we're going to loose everything in Central America, we are going to burn down the cities, loot them, burn down the villages, loot them, capture the citizens, enslave them, then sell the citizens to Peru(our ally), who will come to our aid.

later.

Plunder doesn't replace trade.

Not to mention, if you go overboard with the atrocities, you might turn British motivation from a simple war of political interest to a moral crusade. And you DO NOT WANT the British thinking that this war is a moral crusade.

Plunder doesn't replace trade.

Not to mention, if you go overboard with the atrocities, you might turn British motivation from a simple war of political interest to a moral crusade. And you DO NOT WANT the British thinking that this war is a moral crusade.

Or what? It will end up like the Crusades?(which, if you dont remember, the Christians lost. BIG TIME.)

j/k, i know plunder doesnt replace trade.

I was(kinda) joking about that, but we will still have to loot and plunder a bit.
We're actually trading with our ally to the south, Peru(if ye can have thar netherlands, i get Peru!), and Peru in turn trades with everyone else.

Of course, if you want to invade Peru and go to war with every South American country(except for Ecuador)...

The Chirstians did win the First Crusade. and the fourth one was a sucessful attack on Constantinople.

The Chirstians did win the First Crusade. and the fourth one was a sucessful attack on Constantinople.

Sure, they won the first crusade. Barely, and then they lost nearly EVERYTHING in the second one. In the third one they were wiped off the map, almost ENTIRELY wiping Chrisitanity away from the area(except for in Jerusalem, of course.)

In the foruth one the Crusaders IDIOTICALLY attacked the city that was calling for HELP(remember, this was while the Ottomans began their push towards Constantinople). When they finally crushed their only defence against the Tide of Islam, they went away. Not surprisingly, a city that should have been able to resist the Ottomans was destroyed, and the Ottomans were only stopped when a POLE stopped them at VIENNA, hundreds of miles inside of Europe(im related to the Pole, by the way.)

Sure, they won the first crusade. Barely, and then they lost nearly EVERYTHING in the second one. In the third one they were wiped off the map, almost ENTIRELY wiping Chrisitanity away from the area(except for in Jerusalem, of course.)

In the foruth one the Crusaders IDIOTICALLY attacked the city that was calling for HELP(remember, this was while the Ottomans began their push towards Constantinople). When they finally crushed their only defence against the Tide of Islam, they went away. Not surprisingly, a city that should have been able to resist the Ottomans was destroyed, and the Ottomans were only stopped when a POLE stopped them at VIENNA, hundreds of miles inside of Europe(im related to the Pole, by the way.)
But some of the Crusades did suceed, which is my point.

But some of the Crusades did suceed, which is my point.

Well, they did a sucky job at suceeding.

They may have won the battle, but they lost the war so to speak.

It's a moot point. I meant it in a figurative sense, not as a literal reference to the Crusades proper. Of course the Muslims won over time, they had superior resources. Colombia doesn't. Honestly, I think Colombia's best hope (although they might not accept this for awhile) is to quit Central America and the Caribbean altogether and keep its South American heartland intact.

It's a moot point. I meant it in a figurative sense, not as a literal reference to the Crusades proper. Of course the Muslims won over time, they had superior resources. Colombia doesn't. Honestly, I think Colombia's best hope (although they might not accept this for awhile) is to quit Central America and the Caribbean altogether and keep its South American heartland intact.

Thats what they're doing. They're gradualy withdrawing from the other central american countries to make a stand in Panama. They will fight tooth and nail to keep Panama. Also, Peru is going to get involved soon.

Sorry everyone that I had to leave for a few weeks, unless its a problem I would to like to return to this RP. Therefore a summary of what I've been missed and links to key threads that are new, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Sorry everyone that I had to leave for a few weeks, unless its a problem I would to like to return to this RP. Therefore a summary of what I've been missed and links to key threads that are new, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Oh, you didnt miss much...

Except that the world has advanced to the 1890's, the Columbian Empire(Rp'd as meself) has been attacked by the U.S., Texas, British Hannover, The Netherlands,the U.K., and Whutefeckia. Oh, and i think the Kaiser was assassinated.

Ill try and find some of the threads. You could find the IMPORTANT ones only 2 to three pages back tho.

I doubt Peru's involvement would have any meaningful impact on the war. IRL, Peru probably had a population of 5 million and no industrial capacity in the meaningful sense.

United Elias, there is no problem in you rejoining, or as it were, reasserting, because you never formally left or were formally dropped.

I doubt Peru's involvement would have any meaningful impact on the war. IRL, Peru probably had a population of 5 million and no industrial capacity in the meaningful sense.

United Elias, there is no problem in you rejoining, or as it were, reasserting, because you never formally left or were formally dropped.

Yeah...

BUT, people traded with Peru. Peru trades with Columbia. If you try to STOP Peru, the rest of South America wont be happy.

You dont want to wage war on an entire continent, do you?(albeit a poor one.)

hi all.... back again, will have to read over the various threads to see what is happening and will post as relevent

The US is going to apply strong diplomatic pressure and offer considerable trade incentives to Peru to stay out of the war, and even stronger incentives to Chile, Brazil and El Salvador to join in against Colombia if Peru enters on Colombias side, using Colombia's history of expansionism and the US history of liberating Cuba and Puerto Rico as comparision.

The US will take the position that the Colombians attacked without warning a US ship (which as far is known is what happened), then burned Colon when the population revolted against oppression, and point out the ruthless Colombian conquests in Central America and the suppression of rebellions.

That, along with the fact that the British Empire is on the US side should keep everybody either on the US side or neutral.

The US is going to apply strong diplomatic pressure and offer considerable trade incentives to Peru to stay out of the war, and even stronger incentives to Chile, Brazil and El Salvador to join in against Colombia if Peru enters on Colombias side, using Colombia's history of expansionism and the US history of liberating Cuba and Puerto Rico as comparision.

The US will take the position that the Colombians attacked without warning a US ship (which as far is known is what happened), then burned Colon when the population revolted against oppression, and point out the ruthless Colombian conquests in Central America and the suppression of rebellions.

That, along with the fact that the British Empire is on the US side should keep everybody either on the US side or neutral.

...

Crap. :D

France and Japan are formally allied with the British on some level or another. They're not going to get directly involved unless something drastic happens, but consider them passive supporters. Russia isn't powerful enough navally to interfere with this war.

Which leaves Germany. Which is busy attacking someone else. And the Germans don't want to cause more diplomatic uproar than they are already.

As stated in the other thread, Columbias MAJOR advantage is that it is trained in Jungle warfare. The soldiers know how to make the most of the jungle around them, and in a fight between 20 Columbian Shock Troopers and 20 American Marines(or british marines), the columbians would win because they have knowledge of the land. And alot of it.

Also, im guessing that my army is better trained in Mountain Warfare too. Seeing how a LARGE part of Columbia, Panama, and Costa Rica are all mountainous, we also have alot of training there. So while you may win in the fields, cities, and at sea, in the Jungle Columbia is king.

I will give you the advantage in the jungle and mountains, but you did attack a prepared defensive position. In early 20th Century / Late 19th Century warfare that was recipe for a bloody repulse.

The vital part of Panama I need is lowland however for the most part, and the blockade is going to start cutting into your supplies soon. Basically, the Americans are going to advance slowly, force you to attack them in prepared positions, and let supply problems weaken your forces until they withdraw or are forced to attack at a disadvantage. Eventually you will run out of elite troops and be forced to fight with your less capable regulars.

The US has time, and will use it to its advantage while the blockade brings down your economy (no exports or imports, no tarriff duties which is a primary tax base for most nations, lowered productivity etc...)

I will give you the advantage in the jungle and mountains, but you did attack a prepared defensive position. In early 20th Century / Late 19th Century warfare that was recipe for a bloody repulse.

The vital part of Panama I need is lowland however for the most part, and the blockade is going to start cutting into your supplies soon. Basically, the Americans are going to advance slowly, force you to attack them in prepared positions, and let supply problems weaken your forces until they withdraw or are forced to attack at a disadvantage. Eventually you will run out of elite troops and be forced to fight with your less capable regulars.

The US has time, and will use it to its advantage while the blockade brings down your economy (no exports or imports, no tarriff duties which is a primary tax base for most nations, lowered productivity etc...)

I never thought i could take the city. It was just scare tactics(i mean, who isnt afraid when an army of angry people in evil camoflauge can attack their posistions and slit their throats at any minute.) The problem with your flat area of land that you need.... Thats about Colon and 15% of Panama city. The country is THAT mountainous. Seriously.

Also, if you didnt notice, Rainforests are the most abundant food source in the world. I dont think i have to worry about starving. HOWEVER, ammunition is a different manner. As long as Panama city is open to the mountains, the troops are fine. HOWEVER, once Panama city is cut off from the mountain troops, it all falls to pieces.

And the Columbians are prepared just to sit on their mountains and blow up your city with cannon. They're not stupid, they know they are in an almost un-assailable posistion.

bump

the 1899 Hurricane in Galveston and the war in Central America (plus the alliance with the US) leads Texas to rejoin the Union.

I figure that the California Republic probably would rejoin the union when the World War I breaks out but not til then, and the US really doesnt care to much about Dixie, not wanting to have to deal with its racial issues and it doesn't have anything the US desperately needs.

the War with Colombia is going to trigger a major US shipbuilding effort though, as some losses were taken, some designs turned out to be flawed, and some vulnerabilities were discovered. BUt not battleships yet, mostly just the new light cruiser and destroyer concept, which can use the new steam turbine (first demonstrated by the British in 1897),

The US will discover some problems with its reserve system during the Colombia war, as well as discovering it has a shortage of heavy artillery. Both will be remedied over the first year of the war (which I figure will take a couple of years to secure all of Central America, at least the ports and major cities) and the second year the blockade will pretty much bankrupt Colombia, especially if US diplomacy manages to close the leak with Peru.

British:
The British haven't been involved in much of the grunt work of the war, so they're going to be thinking mostly of naval issues. Especially the idea of the all big-gun battleship, ie, the Dreadnought.That ship will launch about 1905 or so, being the first of its type. And then all hell will break loose.

Germany:
Germany's going to be experimenting a lot with different military techniques in Tellacar, although the opposition is mostly guerilla based. It's likely that they will come up with the concentration camp to remedy the guerilla problem (fairly effective militarily if morally bankrupt). Also, I'm not sure when Zeppelins are first being experimented with effectively, but I believe it must've been around 1900-1905.

Also, Germany's very soon going to create a plan much like the Schlieffen plan. However, considering the immense position of strength that Germany currently enjoys, France is going to be in some trouble. The British and French are going to be doing all they can to build alliances in order to prevent catastrophe in Europe.

Italy wishes to expand its African Colony and its presence around greece

so whats going on elsewhere besides the Balkans and Central America?

Is there a Boer War? Are the Japanese and Russians glaring at each other over Korea and Manchuria yet? How shaky is Russia, or is it more stable in this timeline?

and how are we going to deal with world war I...by the way, most historians now think that the Scheliffen Plan never had a chance of working (just too far and too much to expect from marching infantry)... I have gamed it several times in several different war games and have yet to see it work by the way, but it comes REALLY close... I see deadlock, even with the extra German troops, as the front is only so big, and densities work against more troops, along with crowding of logistics etc... so even without dealing with the Russians, the Germans can't knock the French out in one blow.. but it will be close.

So we have a deadlocked Western Front for at least one year, probably more.

I assume we can trust the Germans to come up with a trigger though.

Well, it might be a modified version of the Schlieffen plan. I haven't quite decided yet. The German de facto leader, Manstein is a talented tactician/strategist but not quite a visionary. I'm of the opinion that probably, a victory within a few months was probably basically impossible. It was only the introduction of effective, mobile tanks in WWII that allowed the dramatic and extremely rapid conquest of France. Well, more accurately, a fusion of effective tanks with effective tank doctrine.

As for a Boer War, I'm guessing not ... it's quite possible that the British and the Boers came to some form of compromise back in the days when Lighting Star was a major threat in the area. I'm not terribly inclined towards starting a Boer war thread personally, the Central American war plus the inevitable buildup to WWI is taking up enough attention.

Our Japan player should be coming into the game a bit more actively, she's been a bit busy the last little bit. I would imagine that a very tense situation is occurring over there. However, I'm not sure if there will be a seperate Russo-Japanese war or if it will just become part of World War I. I would imagine Russia is more politically stable than IRL but that there is considerable potential for unrest if things go badly.

It would seem that Blitzkreig used the same ideas of The Schlieffen plan, which needed the advent of tanks and also air power (in a meaningful sense) to be succesful, and that in 1914 the idea of manouvre warfare, which the Schlieffen plan more or less invented was simply too ahead of its time to work. On the otehr hand this type of tactic worked rather efficiently it woudl seem on Teh Eastern front, although this was probably more due to the overall incompetence of The Russian armed forces at the time.

Zeppelins were first developed in 1899-1900, I believe, but the LZ-1 and LZ-2 had no outer stabilizers at the back and relied on internal weights, causing them to be at the mercy of the wind.

Whutehfeckia has decided to offer support to Britain and her allies, after a long filibuster lead by the pacifist Senator Werner H. Wilksen was broken when he mysteriously came down with a fever, forcing him to leave. An official declaration of war is imminent.

The US will offer Whutefeckia the recently captured by US forces Galapagos Islands and a partial interest in the Panama Canal project (about a third) as incentive to join in the war against Colombia. Plus trade and tariff incentives

Just curious, how does the US plan to compensate Britain and British Hannover, if at all, for its efforts in the Caribbean conflict? (ie, maintaining the blockade and assistence in destroying the Atlantic Fleet)

Just curious, how does the US plan to compensate Britain and British Hannover, if at all, for its efforts in the Caribbean conflict? (ie, maintaining the blockade and assistence in destroying the Atlantic Fleet)

Good question... most likely offer a permanent military alliance, say a North Atlantic Treaty? Plus split the ownership of the Panama Canal with British Hannover (as a North American power its more palatable in Congress)

by the way, currently Teddy Roosevelt has led his Rough Riders in the storming of Panama City (after all, he has to be President soon).

when shall we wrap up the Caribbean situation and move on?

A permanent military alliance sounds good. And the splitting of the Canal revenues with British Hannover makes sense. As for the Caribbean, I'm all for wrapping it up.

bump

The US will immediately start building the Panama Canal (even before the war with Colombia ends and pretty much as soon as the immediate area is cleared of bad guys). This will take about ten years beginning in 1900 and finally completing in 1905 (years ahead of history but it starts sooner too and is a huge US priority, with a lot more British and British Hannoverian money thrown in as well). It will be a lock canal, and the US has already spent a few years investigating the possibilities.

The US will handle all defense of the Canal.

Puerto Rico, Panama, Costa Rica, Nicaruaga, and Honduras are made colonies of the US, with self governing status by 1905, limited independence by 1915 and full independence (or the option of continued association with the US as associated Commonwealths) to be granted by 1920 in order to ensure the creation of stable democratic and capitalist nations.

Belize naturally ends up as a British Colony. British Hannover and Great Britain is granted full trade privilages in US controlled Central America and Puerto Rico, as well as with US Pacific Territories.

The US proposes a North Atlantic Treaty between the US, British Hannover and Great Britian, with Australia and New Zealand having associate status providing for the treaty partners to come to the aid of each other if they are attacked or war is declared by two non allied powers against the any of the Allied powers (in other words, if the UK ends up in a war with Germany and Russia).

The US maintains trade relations only with France, Spain and Japan, but not a military alliance.

I would like to do one final progression to 1905, at which point the drama of this thread is likely to come to a climax. With Germany and Russia actively making plans to dominate Europe and the world ... things are going to get dicey. For all of the faults of Kaiser Friedrich II, he had a decent set of morals. The current Kaiser is weak and very much prey to the manipulations of the General Staff.

Which means that there's going to be a war brewing possibly ahead of schedule. France is extremely vulnerable to a German attack, although the likelihood of the first strike succeeding is somewhat unlikely, there's just too much in play for anything like the Schlieffen Plan to really pan out. Although it will get close, very, very close.

Britain is girding itself navally, making sure that it maintains naval supremacy.

Woah woah WOAH!

The war is NOT over, people! Im gone for 2(or three) days, and the war is suddenly OVER? What about the millions of men i can field? The bloody war in Panama?!?!?

Until this war is resolved, boys and girls, we aint goin NOWHERE!

Woah woah WOAH!

The war is NOT over, people! Im gone for 2(or three) days, and the war is suddenly OVER? What about the millions of men i can field? The bloody war in Panama?!?!?

Until this war is resolved, boys and girls, we aint goin NOWHERE!

yes, it pretty much is.... Colombia has no chance against the three largest economies on the planet, whose collective wealth is roughly half of the planets total wealth at the time, plus a potentially mobilized military strength of several million if required, and the three main powers can take their time wrecking your economy, destroying your ports, and there is no way to move supplies overland from Colombia to Panama as there are no roads or railroads.

It just would take a couple of years, and not interesting enough to play through

yes, it pretty much is.... Colombia has no chance against the three largest economies on the planet, whose collective wealth is roughly half of the planets total wealth at the time, plus a potentially mobilized military strength of several million if required, and the three main powers can take their time wrecking your economy, destroying your ports, and there is no way to move supplies overland from Colombia to Panama as there are no roads or railroads.

It just would take a couple of years, and not interesting enough to play through

*sigh* That doesnt matter.

You are supposed to RP wars to the END! For example, WAY back('round sept) i went to war with Jangle Jangle Ridge. My pop=400,000,000 . His pop= 3,500,000,000. We both knew he would win, hands down. But did i just say "Screw you guys, im goin home!" and just say he won? NO! I fought it out! Mano a mano! Massive battles, a giant invasion, a nuclear war, a slave rebellion, i got the whole deal! Just because you are gonna win doesnt mean we dont have to fight it out.

Of course, you guys are the ones with the power, so even though you are gonna drive this RP straight into the ground because you dont find a massive war in the Americas, with millions of men being summoned on both sides, with long seiges, many revolts, the complete destruction of the Columbian empire, and the elimination of the last obstacle to complete American dominance over the western hemisphere, be my guest.

Well, TECHNICALLY, it's three of the four largest economies on the planet. Germany's not fighting Colombia. But I agree with New Shiron. I feel that the war itself is dragging the RP down, because in large part, it's artificial.

I don't think it's going to drag the RP into the ground, heh. The over-emphasis on what would in any reasonable historical sense be a sideshow is dragging the RP down. What about Halibris or Kanor or United Elias ...? I think this RP would be, on the whole, best served by a final reorientation so it can be completed. I'm willing to admit that I made certain mistakes in the conception and execution of this RP (my first major one), among other things, that NS really isn't the best place to actually host them.

Ok then.

I cant write a good post seeing how i am watching Troy(on DVD!) i cant write a good one.

US Army after Caribbean War
6 infantry divisions, 2 cavalry divisions (full strength), several independent infantry and cavalry regiments (along Mexican border or garrison in Pacific)
12 infantry brigades (garrison forces Central America, Puerto Rico, Hawaii)
several coast artillery brigades (Central America, Hawaii, Guam, Marshal Islands),
plus 12 NG infantry Divisions (take about 3 months to be combat ready)

US Navy after Caribbean War
4 pre dreadnought battleships, 10 armored cruisers, 30 protected cruisers, 8 destroyers (and more under construction), 30 torpedo boats, 30 gunboats

2 dreadnought battleships under construction (building slow)
1 Submarine (USS Holland), with first class of combat submarines beginning development

experiments with blimps, and after 1903, aircraft (Wright Brothers will test fly in North Carolina but are from Ohio)

OOC> Feel free to critique.

German Army as of 1905:

Standing Army: 1,020,000 (Organized into about 70% Infantry divisions, 10% cavalry divisions, 20% scattered in garrisons in various places)
Class-1 Reserves: 1,650,000 (Could be raised in a week)
Class-2 Reserves: All other able-bodied men. (Raised as needed, it is hoped they won't have to be)

Fleet:
19 pre-dreadnought battleships, 23 armoured cruisers, 32 protected cruisers, 7 destroyers, 36 torpedo boats, 34 gunboats

3 Submarines in Danzig submarine pen

1 zeppelin in service, 3 more nearing completion, plans to build a dozen.

OOC> Feel free to critique.

German Army as of 1905:

Standing Army: 1,020,000 (Organized into about 70% Infantry divisions, 10% cavalry divisions, 20% scattered in garrisons in various places)
Class-1 Reserves: 1,650,000 (Can be raised in five weeks, German mobilization was incredibly fast ...)

Fleet:
19 pre-dreadnought battleships, 23 armoured cruisers, 32 protected cruisers, 7 destroyers, 36 torpedo boats, 34 gunboats

3 Submarines in Danzig submarine pen

1 zeppelin in service, 3 more under construction

your mobilization times are off.... the Germans could do it in about a week, maybe less, as could the French.... everyone else was a LOT slower

US Military forces 1905 and deployment
Navy
Pacific Fleet (Hawaii) 4 Armored cruisers, 10 Protected cruisers, 10 gunboats, 10 torpedo boats, 4 destroyers, 1 Marine Brigade (2 regiments)

Asiatic Fleet (Shanghai) 4 Protected cruisers, 10 Gunboats, 1 Marine Regiment

Caribbean Fleet (Colon) 6 Protected cruisers, 10 Gunboats, 10 torpedo boats, 2 marine regiments

Atlantic Fleet (Brooklyn Naval Yard) 4 Predreadnought battleships, 6 Armored Cruisers, 10 Protected Cruisers, 10 torpedo boats, 5 Destroyers, 1 Submarine, 1 Marine Brigade (2 regiments), 1 Marine Regiment

sold to Whutefeckia -- 2 older battleships (USS Maine class), 4 Coast Defense battleships (Monitors)

under construction 2 Dreadnought battleships, 20 Destroyers (1 destroyer joining the fleet a month beginning 1905)(both dreadnoughts a year away from completion but more are planned)

US Army Garrisons
Shanghai -- 1 infantry brigade,
Guam -- 1 infantry battalion, 1 coast defense battalion
Saipan -- 1 infantry battalion, 1 coast defense battalion
Eniwetok -- 1 infantry battalion, 1 coast defense battalion
Hawaii -- 1 infantry brigade, 2 coast defense brigades (heavy guns)
Costa Rica -- 1 infantry brigade, 1 colonial infantry brigade
Honduras -- 1 infantry brigade, 1 colonial infantry brigade
Nicauraga -- 2 infantry brigades, 2 colonial infantry brigades
Puerto Rico -- 1 infantry brigade, 1 colonial infantry brigade, 1 coast defense brigade
Panama -- 2 coast defense brigades, 1 infantry brigade, 1 colonial infantry brigade
Cuba -- 1 coast defense battalion

US Army strategic reserve
V Corps with 2nd, 4th, 6th Infantry Divisions
VII Corps with 1st, 3rd, 5th Infantry Divisions
Mexican Border 1st, 2nd Cavalry Divisions, plus 4 independent Cav Regiments
plus 1 Mountain Infantry Regiment (experimental)

Reserves (mobilization, takes 3 months to make combat ready)
18 NG Infantry Divisions, 2 NG Cavalry Divisions, 6 Corps HQs

Active Duty Army --
250,000 men (plus another 100,000 Colonial troops)
Reserves -- 550,000 men

The is an unusual high as the US is still committed to nationbuilding in Central America and the US hopes to half the number of active duty troops eventually. Of course the Great War will stop that from happening

OOC> I might need a bit of help with the colonial garrisons. I'm guessing there's a total of about 200,000 colonial troops in addition to the regular army. In total, I suspect the German fleet is about 120% the size of the US fleet, although only about two-thirds the British fleet. This may be a bit too big ...

German China Fleet: 1 predrenought battleship, 2 armoured cruisers, 5 gunboats, 6 torpedo boats (Tsingtao)
German Pacific Fleet: 2 predreadnought battleships, 4 armoured cruisers, 7 protected cruisers, 11 gunboats, 12 torpedo boats (Manila Bay)
German Colonial Fleet: About 10 assorted smaller vessels in Africa, about 15 in the Pacific.
German High Seas Fleet: 9 predreadnought battleships, 18 armoured cruisers, 15 protected cruisers, 20 gunboats, 21 torpedo boats
German Mediterranean Fleet: 3 predreadnought battleships, 6 armoured cruisers, 13 protected cruisers, 14 gunboats, 15 torpedo boats
German Submarine Fleet- 4 combat-ready submarines

Under construction:
2 hastily converted dreadnoughts (fairly near completion), 3 dreadnoughts (just started), 5 battlecruisers, 10 light cruisers, 20 destroyers, 8 or so submarines

German Army Air Service:
4 zeppelins by mid-1905, with steady orders for more. Zeppelins tentatively equipped with machine guns and possibly small bomb loads.
German flyers to be developed quite quickly after hostilities break out

German Standing Army:
First Army: (120,000, Strassburg)
Second Army: (120,000, Dortmund)
Third Army: (120,000, Koln)
Fourth Army: (120,000, Konigsberg)
Fifth Army: (120,000, Sarajevo) (Occupying Tellacar)
Sixth Army: (120,000, Munich)
Seventh Army: (120,000, Breslau)

Alsace-Lorraine Defence Corps: 75,000
German Coastal Defence Corps: 40,000
Other Fortresses: 45,000

German Colonies:
Africa:
The Congo: 1 coastal defence battalion, 4 colonial brigades
Mozambique: 1 coastal defence battalion, 2 colonial brigades
German West Africa: (Togo/Benin/Ghana) 1 coastal defence battalion, 2 colonial brigades

The Pacific: 2 battalions altogether
German New Guinea:
The Solomons:
The Carolines:
The Gilberts:

Philippines: 1 coastal defence brigade, 2 infantry divisions, 1 cavalry brigade, 7 colonial brigades
Tsingtao: 1 coastal defence brigade, 1 regular brigade

Nordrreich, it is alright if I do some deals with Count Zeppelin in the RP?

Nordriech, I would suggest that your Philippine Garrison should be about 100,000 (about half Colonial troops) or basically a coast defense brigade (Corregidor), a couple of infantry divisions, a cavalry regiment or brigade (both divisions and the cavalry around Manila), and several colonial infantry brigades (on the other islands).

I would suggest that your forces in the Gilberts, Carolines, Papua and Solomons be lower, as the natives completely uncivilized (by 1900 standards), the climate is awful (mostly) and so a few battalions would seem about right for the entire area. Basically, aside from a few harbors, there just isn't much of use or worth defending anyway.

the vital points are Rabual (New Ireland), Buka (Northern New Guinea), Lae (New Guinea), Tulagi (Solomons), Truk (Carolines), and Tarawa (Gilberts), everything else is of marginal value at best

Okay ... I'll made the alterations. Whutehfeckia, it's possible although you'd probably only get a few zeppelins out of it. The majority, as you could imagine, would be built for Germany. Although there's the issue of your relative closeness to the United States.

Okay ... I'll made the alterations. Whutehfeckia, it's possible although you'd probably only get a few zeppelins out of it. The majority, as you could imagine, would be built for Germany. Although there's the issue of your relative closeness to the United States.
A few? I'd expect merely one to be made... only seven ships were made in the first tens years of it's existance in real life.
We'd merely copy it's design and create our own lines of work on it.
We could strip down the crew, increase size, and add radio equipment for a mobile radio station. We also could try to add more guns and make Zeppelin vs. Zeppelin combat possible, with boarding parties and the whole shebang. Mini-Zeppelins, manned with no crew, could shoot at point blank range at buildings to explode and creat massive fires (crude aerial torpedos?) Bombing sights could be improved and exploration would become much easier. The possibilities are nearly endless!

by the way Nordreich, maybe too many battlecruisers....but about the time the Dreadnought hits the water, the Germans, British and French start building light cruisers (faster versions of a protected cruiser with speed in the 25 knot range)

I cut the number down to five. And light cruisers ... I'll keep that in mind. As for aerial stuff, I'm imagining that Germany will probably have a modest number of planes of its own design up relatively quickly after they're noticed and/or shot or crashed on German-held soil. It's possible (although not necessarily the case) that the Germans, being an aggressive and innovative power might be the leaders in the true militarization of aircraft, ie, putting a new, armed design of flyers into the skies about two years in the war.

Whutehfeckia, I think you're overestimating the value of zeppelins. The Germans did, however, use them for some terror bombing and they're good for killing submarines too. WWI airplanes were mostly used for reconaissance, and will be even more so in this.

I know I am overestimating the value of Zeppelins- if everything I said was true, then Zeppelins would still be crowding the skies everywhere. I'm trying to make my nation, as time progresses, use more and more air transportation. The capital will be renamed Luftstadt, and the Airforce will be stronger than the world average, while the Army will be weaker than average. That's how it is now...

I'm going towards Science Fiction as time progresses-- ever heard of the game Crimson Skies? I want my nation to be like that by the 1930's. We've got to make sure that these 1900 nations are faintly resembling the current day versions of them, and my current version of Whutehfeckia is Air-oriented. We can't just repeat was history did, after all, or that would hold no surprises. Make Germany win the Great War; see what happens... it's an RP, you can do more than in real life.

well, Zepplins and Blimps are going to be practical a lot sooner than aircraft, so you might get your wish. I would suggest that another source of helium be found (historically the source has always been Texas). Say in Iraq for example? or Persia (which might be better). That way Zepplin can get away from flammable hydrogen (which makes Zepplins terribly vulnerable) toward inert Helium (which makes them a lot safer).

Decent aircraft (as in combat capable) don't really show up until 1915 (at best 1912 in this timeline) because of limitations in engine technology, basic understanding of the science involced (which is developed through experience) and similiar issues.

So the Zepplins will be Queens of the Sky for a while, especially if war breaks out sooner rather than later.

Iraq would mean United Elias. Him and the old Germans are pretty chummy, what with the railway and all. Persia's under zones of Russian and British dominance. That would seem logical enough. And the point about the Zeppelins is well taken.

Texas would be reachable for oil, as well as Mexico and Canada most likely. Alaska has oil in its lands, right?

When did undersea oil-drilling become profitable?

Texas would be reachable for oil, as well as Mexico and Canada most likely. Alaska has oil in its lands, right??

major oil producing regions 1905
Texas, Oklahoma (USA), Baku Russia ((Russia), Dutch East Indies (Netherlands), Iraq (United Elias), Persia (barely started), Venezuela (barely started), California (Pacific Republic, a neutral at this point), Lousiana (CSA, friendly to France), Mexico (barely started in the Campeche area, still in Civil War, although it is finally ending with a PRI victory with US indirect and covert assistance, Rumania (major customer is Germany), Hungary (in small amounts)

However, Pacific Republic, Utah (Morman state), Germany, France, UK, Russia, Japan and USA are self sufficient in coal production... most ships still burn coal as well. Main problem is an oil glut until war breaks out, as only small numbers of cars, trucks, aircraft and ships burn oil products of any type and there is lot more oil than demand at this particular time..

ooc to bad we wasted so much.. sigh...information courtesy of the book, "The Prize" which won a Pulitzer for its in depth history of the Oil Business.. worth reading by the way.

Hydrogen is available anywhere (simple process to make), but Helium only naturally comes out of the ground in a oil field in the Panhandle of Texas... and in this game, why not give some to the Persians too (liven things up a bit)

When did undersea oil-drilling become profitable?

1950s

I found a number of good sites with information on the predreadnought navies, including how good the various ships were compared to each other as well as fairly complete information on the Russo Japanese War.

http://www.wtj.com/games/battlefleet/
http://www.xenophongi.org/milhist/modern/russowar.htm

plus an excellent site with lots of links on World War I

http://www.worldwar1.com/

bump

I looked up Russian and Japanese naval forces... and the Russians have a lot of ships. So the US is expanding its fleet in the Pacific (which becomes the main fleet) and will essentially expect that the British and British Hannover will take care of the Atlantic, watch Germany, while the US monitors the Caribbean and the the US, Japanese and elements of the British navy plus the Australians watch the Russians and Germans.

Russo Japanese War forces (from historical record)
Russian Forces 1904

Pacific Fleet Admiral Markarov commanding
Battleships Peresvyet, Petropavlovsk, Pobyeda, Poltava, Retvizan, Sevastopol, Tsarevich
Armored Cruisers Bayan, Rossiya, Rurik Gromoboi,
Protected Cruisers Askold, Bogatyr, Boyarin, Diana, Novik, Pallada, , Varyag
Plus 22 destroyers, 9 gunboats, 22 torpedo boats

Garrisons:
Port Arthur 35,000 men in strong fortifications plus extensive field fortifications
Vladivostok 20,000 men
Other garrisons and border guards 5,000 men
Manchurian Army 30,000

Baltic Fleet Vice Admiral Rozhdestvenski commanding
Battleships Admiral Nakhimov, Admiral Senyavin, Admiral Ushakov, Borodino, General Admiral Apraxin, Imperator Alexandr III, Imperator Nikolai I, Knyaz Suvorov, Navarin, Orel, Oslyabya, Sisoi Veliki
Protected Cruisers Almaz, Aurora, Dmitri Donskoi, Izumrud, Oleg, Svyetlana, Vladimir Monomakh,
Zhemchug
Plus 20 destroyers

Black Sea Fleet Admiral Stark commanding
Battleship Potemkin, Dvienadstat Apostolov, Graf Apraxin
Armored Cruisers Pamiat Azova, Admiral Nakhimov, Dmitri Donskoi, Vladimir Monomakh
Plus 10 destroyers, 12 torpedo boats, 2 gunboats

Russian Peacetime Army 1,000,000
Reserves None trained, essentially limitless untrained

Japanese Forces 1904 Admiral Togo Commanding
Battleships Asahi,Chinyen, Fuji,Fuso, Hatsuse, Mikasa, Shikishima, Yashima,
Protected Cruisers Adzuma, Akashi, Akitsushima, Asama, Chihaya, Chitose, Chiyoda, Hashidate,
Idzumo, Idzumi, Itsukushima, Iwate, Kasagi, Kasuga, Matsushima, Naniwa, Niitaka, Nisshin,
Otowa, Saiyen, Suma, Takachiho, Takasago, Tatsuta, Tokiwa, Tsukushi, Tsushima, Yaeyama,
Yakumo, Yoshino,
Plus 23 destroyers, 4 gunboats. 20 torpedo boats

Japanese Army 270,000 men
Reserves 100,000 men

Russian forces can't exit the Black Sea in wartime without triggering war with Turkey (can't go through the straits under Turkish Russian agreement)

Sounds good. Actually, that is a fairly big navy, isn't it?

yep, the Russians had a big one.... until the war when they lost nearly everyone of those ships....

as far as quality goes.... the Germans have the best warships individually, although are short ranged and habitability sucks (so long range cruising is out for most of the fleet).... about 2/3rds are modern, rest obsolescent

British and Japanese have roughly second best in quality (as a lot of the Japanese ships are British built), with the Americans behind that (except for the newer cruisers and destroyers, which are better than the British and German ships)

Russians and French behind them, with Italians behind them.... that is based on protection, damage control, firepower, fire control, range and World War I (and pre war) historical record.... so probably the same here.

In a stand up fight, 2 German heavy ships are equal to 3 British ones or 3 Japanese ships or 4 American ones or 6 Russian or French or Italian ones..

in light ships, superior American, British and Japanese seamanship offsets that advantage evening the odds, and giving them the value of 2 British, Japanese or American cruisers or destroyers equalling 2 German or 3 French or 4 Russian or Italian ships.

A Dreadnought is more dangerous still, as fire control, protection etc make a dreadnought worth 3 or 4 predreadnought battleships (Battlecruiser roughly the same advantage over 3 or 4 armored cruisers as well)

bump

by the way, what happened to the Japanese and Russian players?

I think the Russian player is gone for good. As for Hizashi (also known as Raggy's Styxie) ... I'll have to talk to the girl.

ack, I am gone all day and we almost lose the thread.....

where did everybody go?

For one thing, nothing's really happening. We're discussing fleet sizes and oil feilds, which isn't terribly exciting.

For one thing, nothing's really happening. We're discussing fleet sizes and oil feilds, which isn't terribly exciting.

well, thats to kill time until Norrdreich finishes his exams on Dec 10.... so what does Whutehfeckia plan to do?

bump

well, thats to kill time until Norrdreich finishes his exams on Dec 10.... so what does Whutehfeckia plan to do?
Hmmm... I could create some German/English riots that escalate into full out street wars. Then there'd be the English and Germans at an akward situation... but wait, those are both PCs of Nordrreich.

Is Lightning Star still here? I could invade his lands, so I can get larger amounts of fuel for my growing Airship fleet.

We should try a single-person RP, but based in 1900. Sort of like the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, you know? Have some guys good with guns, machines and the like, go off and blow up some godforsaken bad guy, then have some politicians afterwards congratulate themselves.

Any other suggestions?

you could invade Chile Whutefeckia... or have whaling ship disputes, or go to the South Pole (which occurs about the time we are at now) or claim parts of Antarctica or get in a war with Argentina

Colombia is no longer a factor in hemispheric affairs (telegram me for why)

You don't need to worry too much about hydrogen for you airships or gasoline, both are readily available and cheap.. helium you have to go to the US or Iraq for (only place it is available).

Or you could have an airship disaster that creates the need for helium (which doesn't burn) instead of hydrogen (which burns even more readily than gasoline... example Hindenberg)

You could annex Easter Island too by the way.... its so isolated probably no one would notice

I can see British and European (German, Norwegian) whaling ships getting into a dispute in Antarctic waters with either each other or with yours

since we don't have a Russia, do you guys mind if I RP them for a while.... I was thinking of the more conventionally historic autocratic Russia with dreams of expansionistic glory and its historic (weak) economy

bump

I don't mind if you RP Russia, New Shiron. Not at all. I'm, well, loaded, heh. Between Britain (and British Hannover) and Germany, I'd be totally incapable of taking on Russia. Also, my exams are until the 20th, so realistically, I can't really do a whole lot in this RP until after Christmas. So, I suggest we take a bit of a break. Can always revive it with a new thread a bit later. Also, our Japan player is out of this RP, so Japan is available to a player. I think our Italy might be gone too.

So, basically ...

Great Powers:
British Empire- British Hannover
British Hannover- British Hannover (Given the higher starting population, BH's population and economy is probably going to be just a smidge larger than that of France. Small army, medium-largish navy and a huge resource base that's more fully exploited than IRL Canada in this time.)
German Empire- Nordrreich
United States- New Shiron
Russia- New Shiron
France- Halibiris
Japan- ?

Significant Others:
Italy- Kanor (I think, he might be gone too)
Whutehfeckia- of the same name
United Elias- of the same name

I'm still around. My exams finished on the 10th.

Russia has a change in government and becomes more authoritarian after a wave of strikes and unrest in Poland, Finland and Central Asia in 1904.

The new government, led by Prime Minister Alexeiev, is also hard line in foreign policy, a stance that the Czar also firmly agrees with. Instead of pulling out of Manchuria and Korea as agreed, the Russian government decides to stay and indeed reinforce its garrisons in preparation to annex both.

Japan is not viewed as a threat, although the possibility of war with England and the United States is viewed seriously because of the American Open Door Policy with China and both nations firm stance on carving up that nation.

Accordingly, the Russians make move to prepare to take strong action against Turkey, Persia, and Japan should the situation warrant it, and send ships from the Baltic Fleet to reinforce the Pacific and Black Sea fleets, as well as creating a Mediterranean Squadron and making a deal with Greece concerning Turkish territory (using the Greek/Russian Orthodox religious ties).

Russia also offers the Germans a firm military guarantee to side with Germany in the event of war with France or England, but expects the same, and also wants an offensive as well as defensive alliance created.

If the Greeks are difficult, the Russians will make an offer to Italy concerning the Greek islands and joint action in North Africa and the Middle East.

This Russian government is anti British, Pro German, and holds the Japanese in contempt and completely disregards the French and Americans as important factors.

by the way, maybe Whutefeckia could play Japan?

*runs full speed into RP room*

"I'm late! I'm late! For a very important date!"

*opens door and accidentally runs into New Shiron*

"Sorry 'bout that old chap!"

*notices everyone is looking at him funny*

"How-didly-howdy? Why are you all lookin at me like that?"

*notices he's still wearing his Carthaginian Generals' battle armor*

"Heh heh...sorry 'bout that!"

*runs out of room, changes into shorts, a t-shirt, and a UNICEF Baseball cap, and comes back in.*

"Anyhoo, what did I miss?"

Well, seeing how we kinda agreed i lost big time...

Columbia: The Aftermath of the war

During the war with the U.S. and it's allies, Columbia lost a total of 128,391 soldiers and had 339,391 wounded.The Departments of Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Honduras, Venezuela, and most of Panama(everything except for most of Darien and the Azuero Peninsula) all gained Independence. The Columbian Economy went from reasonable to almost non existant. After the war, crowds of angry citizens stormed the Imperial Palace and killed the Emperor. Over 1,340 of the rebels were killed as well as 473 of the Imperial Guard. Nearly every province in Columbia itself declared independence. In the year 1899, there are over 17 Republics. In an effort to re-gain lost land, the newly Democratic Repulic of Colombia(baisically Bogota and everything within 15 miles of the city) launches a military campaign to re-gain land with its army of just 70,000. However small it may seem, the army itself is made of up 60,000 regulars and 10,000 Republican(former Imperial) Guard, the elite of the elite. By 1905 they have re-gained about 1/3rd of Columbia.

However, the Democratic Republic is not without powerful enemies. The navy, the Imperial Shock Troopers(which now number 40,000), and most of the army(about 300,000 conscripts and 40,000 regulars) have made their own state; The Republic of Cartagena. Made up of mostly coastal provinces, the Republic also includes the Azuero Peninsula and parts of the Darien in Panama. Both areas are heavily fortified, although the Panamanians haven't attempted to take those areas.

Another, possibly more dangerous, nation lies to the south. Columbia's long time enemy, Ecuador, underwent a socialist revolution in 1900 and it took advantage of the crisis by invading the nation to the north. They encountered little reistance, seeing how the people of south Colombia saw socialism as a godsend and most flocked to the banner of Ecuador. In 1904, Ecuador invaded the Democratic Republic of Colombia's ally, Peru, and captured some small northern provinces.

___________________________________________

I'm gonna write thar pop's soon, but not right now.

Map:
http://photobucket.com/albums/v626/Thelightningstar/th_NewColumbia.png

bump

the Russians begin improving the level of training of their Pacific Fleet, and also begin conducting naval exercises routinely in the Black Sea, including trying a couple of practice landings (that don't go well).

Significant efforts are made increase the capacity of the port of Batumi (right on the Turkish border) in Gerogia as well, and the port capacity of Astrakhan and Krasnovodsk (Caspian Sea) is increased, and a rail road is built from Krasnovodsk to Ashkhabad (modern Turkmenistan) right on the Persian border.

Railroad construction also speeds up in Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan (connecting the Urals region to the Afghani border)

the British will quickly realize that the Russians are improving their logistics capability in that region and will soon offer a real threat to Turkey, Persia and Afghanistan and indirectly to India.

Seeing how Columbia is now outta the picture, It are time to focus on me first nation: The Lightning Star!

1905 Application

Name of Country: The Glorious Islamic African Empire of The Lightning Star
Head of State: General Muhammad Faraqa
Head of Government: General Muhammad Faraqa
Form of Government: Totalarian Military Dictatorship
Region: East Africa

Population of Country: 14,284,291

Capital: Izzat(Urdu: عزت; Formerly(sp?) known as Nairobi)
Offical Language: Urdu
Common Languages: Urdu, Arabic, Punjabi, Sindhi
Ethnicity of Country: 66% Arab, 14% Punjabi, 10% Sindhi, 10% Other
Religion of Country: 100% Muslim
Territories: Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda, Tanzania, Zambia

History: In the year 1897, an uprising of native East Africans plunged The Islamic East African Federation of The Lightning Star into civil war. The East Africans outnumbered the Arab's, and they had the backing of the EXTREMELY wealthy whites.By 1899, they managed to take over Nairobi and all of the country except for the coastal city of Mombasa. Seeing that their days were numbered unless they found help, the Arabs called for a Jihad against the East Africans. Although the people from the Arabian Peninsula didn't send much(the ever-watching eye of United Elias scared most of them), the Indian Muslims heard their call. In the provinces of Punjab and Sindh, millions of Muslims prepared to aid their muslim brothers. However, the British occupiers proved to be a problem. The Muslims decided the best way to get out was by ship from Persia, so they kindly asked their fellow muslim Persians to lend them boats, which they did.

In May 1900, over 3,000,000 Muslim(about 2,800,000 of them from India) forces arrived in Mombasa. Most of them had less than perfect training, so the veteran Arabs drilled them until May 1901. They recieved supplies through blockade runners and privateers, so they army was well fed and armed. On May 29th, 1901 3,500,000 Muslim soldiers sallied forth to break the seige of Mombasa. The Africans and the whites had thought the Muslims to be defeated long ago, so their forces were few and those who remained had almost no training. The Muslim army swept through the nation, slaughtering over 6,000,000 Natives and 300,000 whites. By September of that year, the flag of The Islamic East African Federation of The Lightning Star flew over the capital of Nairobi. Over 9,000,000 people died.

Soon after regaining power, the militant Indian groups, hungry for blood, took over the nation and instated an Islamic Military Dictatorship. The Muslims of the nation didn't mind this at all, in fact most hailed it as a godsend, but the 200,000 remaining whites and 800,000 remaining East Africans were afraid that this government would enact a deadly vengance upon their people. They were right, and the new government began to systematically kill off the people. The rest of the world, far too busy paying attention to the senseless Columbian war or the troubles in Europe, did not notice that over 1,000,000 people were being killed one by one. By March, 1902, 980,000 Whites and Africans lay dead. 99.89% of the Women and 99.87% of the Children were killed, as well as 97.6% of the Men. The remaining 20,000 were enslaved and put to work re-building the nation.

Once the non-muslims were dealt with, the new government began restoring the nation. The Capital, Nairobi, was renamed Izzat, and it soon became the center of the Muslim World(the only city which could fight for that title would be Mecca, although that is highly doubtful due to the fact that the Arabs are in dissaray due to the fact that they keep getting invaded by non-muslim infidels. The nation also undertook a massive re-armament campaign, and the army although shrunk from 3,500,000, is still about 300,000 men strong and very well trained (plus they are seasoned veterans, which is always good.)



Culture of Country: A mix between Arab and West Indian culture. Islam plays an important role in the average life of a citizen, as does the military. Anyone who is not a muslim(or is a native african or white), is a slave and works to re-build the nation. The number of slaves in the country is 74,390. Of course, foreign dignitaries are not enslaved, and the government has build a church in the embassy-sector of Izzat.

Economy of Country: Good. Trade with other Muslim nations thrives, and the nation has once-again become a major trading nation. Also, the nation has 75,000 troops(seperate from the regular army) that are sold for reasonable prices.

Military of Country: Made up of 300,000 Regulars, 75,000 Mercenaries(as in troops that are sold to other nations, not sold to TLS), and 1,000,000 reservists if needed, the Lightning Star has a fair military. In 1903 the nation invaded Zambia and quickly assimilated it into the nation, purging it of all whites and natives and replacing them with good Muslims. The war lasted 9 months, and the Lightning Starians took 15,000 casualties, which is smaller than the 70,000 Zambian casualties. The war sharpened the Lightning Starians skills, and showed that the army was prepared for a war against a larger nation if need be.

Also, the nation quickly set out to destroy the remaining pirates on the coast. In a fierce series of battles, the Pirates were massacred and their ships converted to TLS. The Pirates, some of the last and richest in the world, had about 12 Steel Warships, as well as around 30 smaller(100 men or less) steel ships, so the navy of the nation is as good as the nation needs it to be.

Colonies: None

Bumpity bumpity bump wump!

The Russians are going to send their armored cruiser squadron based at Vladivostok on a port visit to the Germany colony of the Philippines

and secretly discuss using Manila Bay as a base in case of war.

The Russians are going to try to push for firm backing by Germany in crushing Japan and the Russians are ready for a show down with the British Empire if it comes to that.

Although not as ready as the Russians think they are. They are betting a lot on the Russian steamroller winning victory in the Middle East and South Asia, as well as Turkey, and the Germans making quick work of the French and driving the British out of Europe.

The Russians are completely ignoring the Americans and British Hannoverians, and have nothing but contempt for the Japanese, much less the various peoples of the Middle East. Russia still has a relatively weak economy not really suited to a protracted war, and recent crackdowns have infuriated the progressive middle class and socialist leaning urban workers.

Nicholas isn't all that great a ruler either.

The Germans are probably going to give Russia firm backing, most importantly for the reason that the Russians are by far their most important world ally. Alienating Russia would be diplomatic suicide. Besides, the de facto German military-dominated government is Russophilic. They like the brazen autocracy, which they can't really do in Germany.

The Germans have the second largest (just a bit smaller than Russia) and probably overall the best army in the world. Their navy is second only to Britain and their economy is gigantic as well, just over a third larger than IRL Germany, as it has pretty much all the industrial areas of Austria as well, especially Bohemia, which is quite prime industrial real estate. However, there's problems too.

The fact is that it is next to impossible with the military technology of that time to deal a knockout blow to France in six weeks like they're aiming for. However, the Low Countries and much of the main French industrial region (the northeast) is going to find itself occupied. The somewhat higher German manpower and lack of an Eastern Front as such will give them additional ability to sustain war losses.

Were it a simple Britain, France and Japan versus Germany, Italy and Russia, it would probably end up being a Central Powers victory. However, the United States and British Hannover are going to weigh in very much, especially after the first year or so. Since British Hannover has just over four times the population of IRL Canada and Canadians were, along with the Aussies and Kiwis, the shock troops of the Allies for much of the war, that could be a deadly advantage.

Of course, the United States is even bigger, which a navy just a bit smaller than Germany's and a population that is probably a bit larger. I'm not sure about the figures for the missing Dixie states, but I'm guessing about 90-100 million. Germany would be about 80 million at this point. In addition, the Germans are going to get some trouble from ethnic minorities if the war gets too ugly, most problematically, the Czechs.

On the upside, the German leadership is probably a smite better than it was IRL, with a fairly strong General Staff leader to keep the excesses of many of the German generals in check. I expect we'll also see a Russian presence, if not a huge one on the Western front. I'm not the Italian player, but I expect they'll be trying their own attack in the south while the Germans attempt their huge scythe in the north.

Jeez, Nordrreich, you have an extremely hostile, radical, and militarily powerful neighbor to the north of your colonies and you don't seem to mind...

Ah well, I have bigger fish to fry.

Can someone say, "Sudan"?