NationStates Jolt Archive

Okay. This is the problem. The Konigstadt Conference got slightly out of control. And I'd also like to make sure we can scrape up support. So I'm going to make the thread and open the floor while I do a bit of work.

If someone can think of a great way to go around this irritating technicality of being unable to upload this map, it might go a long way. Right now of course, this is a fully IRL 1880 Map.

PS- If anyone can find a really great blank world map that you can easily alter on Paint, that'd be grand. The one I have is okay, but not fantastic.

I have a blank map on my other computer, I think. Let me go see...

I got one! I GOT ONE!!!

Its at: http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/EART/images/world-lg.gif

Oh, an dcan we PLEASE not make this into a conference! I hate them. Too much talking, not enough action. And please stop me if i get out of control, im used to playing as the regular TLS, the 740 million person nation witha gigantic army, protecting third-world countries from invasions by large, first-world countries who are just plain EVIL!

Or, if we do make this into a conference, can we have a seperate war thread? Like the Feminany conference a month back. It was a conference thread and a war thread. That way we get to flex our muscles AND fight!

Keeping wars seperate from conferences is a good idea, actually. Makes it cleaner.

Keeping wars seperate from conferences is a good idea, actually. Makes it cleaner.

See? Im also gonna go change my application form to an independent country due to teh facts that sangre de cristo gave.

Yeah, I think it's better if we all do the applications again. Especially because I might be able to get us some new RPers in the downtime. I've been in negotiations with some people, you could say.

Application for 1880 RP: Independent Nation
Name of Country: East African Republic of The Lightning Star
Head of State: President Johan Smitt
Head of Government: President Johan Smitt
Form of Government: Democracy
Capital: Maputo, Mozambique Province

Population of Country: 27.2 million
Official Language: Zulu, Portugese, German, English, Arabic, Mandarian Chinese, Hindi
Ethnicity of Country: Various African Tribes
Religion of Country: 38% Protestant, 33 % Muslim, 17% Catholic, 4% other

Culture of Country: Various African Cultures mixed with western(mostly Portugese), Arab, Chinese, and Hindu influences.

Stability of Country: Stable. Although the nation is only 33 years old, it has still become a strong nation in the region. However, it has made alot of enemies. Ethiopian Kings constantly try to regain the South-Ethiopia Province, while Various Congolesse kings attack the mid-provinces. Boers occasionally launch attacks on Mozambique, and Pirates raid the entire coast.

Economy of Country: Very Strong. Due to the large amounts of trading taking place along its shores, millions of dollars worth of money is made each year(remember, 1 million dollars then would probably be around 100 million today. So it would be around $400,000,000 worth a year). Into the Interior, there are vast amounts of supplies like timber and rare animals. The fishing industry also creates alot of money.

Land Military of Country: 120,000 soldiers total. 70,000 are situated along the middle border with the Congo, due to the fact that the local kings constantly try to conquer the middle Provinces. 40,000 are in the South-Ethiopia and Somalia Provinces, and 5,000 are in the south defending against Boer raids. The remainign 5,000 are either defending cities or defending ports.

Navy of Country: 27 California class ships bought from the U.S

Other Information: Origionally part of the Portugesse Empire, declared independence in the year 1847. Since then, trade with Arabia, India, China, and Europe has caused a flood of immigrants and large amounts of money to flow. The Provinces of South-Ethiopia and Somalia were captrued during the Paladin War(1856-59. A war between the E.A.T.L.S. and the African Paladins, a group of Ethiopian Christians and Somali Muslims who had banded together to defeat Italian Invaders). The Zimbabwe Province was captured during the Boer War(1876-1877. It began after the Boers launched an attack on Maputo, burning 17% to the ground.)

Colony: None(Independent nation)

Map of Nation:
http://www.freewebs.com/thelightningstar/Africa.JPG

*looks at application* I like the idea. An East African settler state. Like South Africa, except East Africa. :D

There's just a few things though. The navy's a bit too large, I think, but then again, all of us except Sangre had weird ideas about naval scales at the time. That's an insignificant detail though. The point I think you're trying to get at is 'medium-strength', which is fine. It's not as much that your navy should be weaker as it is that the scale is off. IRL Imperial Germany only had 18 ships in its navy ... granted, it was unusually small for a nation of its power, but Britain itself I believe only had a few hundred.

The history thing is a little trickier. I think it'd be better if, PC countries excluded, we stuck with the historical borders of everything at the time. I'm making a map of such right now. The constant war against the Congo could be a constant war to expand inward into Africa. The interior tribes of the claimed territory could give you quite a bit of trouble, and provide the war thing. And Portugal is weak enough that the independence of Lightning Star is quite possible, starting from a base in Portuguese East Africa (Mozambique).

Such a state could indeed be quite prosperous in its way, although the wealth would be largely based off of cash crop exports and trade, and probably be distributed amongst a tiny minority. Not unlike plantation owners in Brazil or the pre-Civil War US South.

*looks at application* I like the idea. An East African settler state. Like South Africa, except East Africa. :D

There's just a few things though. The navy's a bit too large, I think, but then again, all of us except Sangre had weird ideas about naval scales at the time. That's an insignificant detail though. The point I think you're trying to get at is 'medium-strength', which is fine. It's not as much that your navy should be weaker as it is that the scale is off. IRL Imperial Germany only had 18 ships in its navy ... granted, it was unusually small for a nation of its power, but Britain itself I believe only had a few hundred.

The history thing is a little trickier. I think it'd be better if, PC countries excluded, we stuck with the historical borders of everything at the time. I'm making a map of such right now. The constant war against the Congo could be a constant war to expand inward into Africa. The interior tribes of the claimed territory could give you quite a bit of trouble, and provide the war thing. And Portugal is weak enough that the independence of Lightning Star is quite possible, starting from a base in Portuguese East Africa (Mozambique).

Such a state could indeed be quite prosperous in its way, although the wealth would be largely based off of cash crop exports and trade, and probably be distributed amongst a tiny minority. Not unlike plantation owners in Brazil or the pre-Civil War US South.



Okie dokie smokie! Do ye want me to change the map or will you?

The problem about the map is that I have an actual 1880 (on the dot) map, and a good Paint blank map, but no where to put it, since the uploading doesn't seem to work. I could maybe e-mail you a JPEG version when I'm done and you could put it up?

Name of Country: The People's Republic of Tellacar
Head of State: Speaker Nadia Zhukova
The role of Speaker is mostly diplomatic and representative position. They are picked by the people and elected by the People’s Congress. To recall the Speaker is in the hands of the population, not the People’s Congress.

Head of Government: The People’s Congress
The laws are made by the People’s Congress, a 400-person assembly that changes hands every four years. In order to keep things running smoothly, the assembly was split into two and alternate years one group exchanges while the other one stays to teach the new comers and bring them up to speed.

Form of Government: Democratic Socialism

Population of Country: 10 million

Official Language: None, though the most popular language used is German. However common second languages include English, Russian, Turkish, Persian, and Arabic

Ethnicity of Country:
Slavic: 30%, German: 26%, Turkish: 15%, Russian: 13%, Arabic: 10%, English: 5%, Other: 1%.

Religion of Country: None.

While spirituality and religion is a strong part of Tellacar’s foundation, the foundation is based on cooperative nature between the religions of god.
Unitarianism/Deism: 30%, Protestant: 16%, Sunni Muslim: 15%, Roman Catholic: 10%, Greek Orthodox: 10%, Agnostic/Atheist: 8%, Sufism Muslim: 5%, Orthodox Judaism: 4%.


Culture of Country: Inspired by the ideals of the Gospel of Luke, and the oldest teachings of the Koran and Muhammad’s, Tellacar’s main focus is to serve the will of the people in times of peace. The country however forces many moral values to be taught at school, limiting freedoms for the greater good. Despite the majority of folks are down right friendly to moderate, many radicals in religion do lurk under the surface of society. While the country is quick to get rid of them when they pop up, police forces are not able to rout them out.

Stability of Country: The country is stable, though it is relatively new and mostly a immigrant nation. The stability of the government is achieved by laws enforcing duties to be shared among people, giving all a chance at power. However, Tellacar has never been through a war before and it is uncertain how they would respond to such matters.

Economy of Country: Very fragile. While there is some private sectors, the essential needs (food, health care, and education) are owned by the government. Because of strict rules on corporations that do come to Tellacar, they don’t stay for very long. Tellacar export wine (mostly by Muslim farmers who don’t use their products) and seafood as well as medications. They import basic items like wheat and medicine.
Land Military of Country: Very poor. There is ten Calvary and howitzer regiments, their isn’t a standing army. However, most Tellacarians have served under the police forces and trained to use weapons. They’re loyal to their country and will create militias in a moments notice.

Navy of Country: Better than the army. Tellacar’s navy is relatively strong for a nation that doesn’t focus on military expenditures. 30 ships.

Other Information: While Tellacar’s military is less to be desired, there is a military. Tellacar is focused on peace but has made an emergency plan in case if they are attacked. Those who join the Tellacar military can no longer serve under political office. However the military offers the most stable life for Tellacarians.

The problem about the map is that I have an actual 1880 (on the dot) map, and a good Paint blank map, but no where to put it, since the uploading doesn't seem to work. I could maybe e-mail you a JPEG version when I'm done and you could put it up?

Sure! I have a Freewebs website. Either you could make yur own (its free adn takes only 2 seconds) OR you could email me at EmperorJonI@aol.com

Bump!!!

Alright. 1880 World map officially e-mailed. Other countries will have to include some sort of country map again so I can add to the World Map. Another thing, a good thing to know before we open another RP thread is where your country is coming from and what it wants.

Application for 1880 RP:
Name of Country: Nordrreich
Head of State: Kaiser Friedrich Wilhelm III
Head of Government: Chancellor Karl von Bulow
Form of Government: Constitutional Monarchy. However, the Reichstag has limited powers. The Chancellor is answerable to the Kaiser, not the Reichstag.
Geographical Location: Central Europe. Conforms exactly to the borders of the Second Reich, aka German Empire of 1871-1918.

Capital of Country: Konigstadt (1,300,000, growing at an insane pace. Predicted to reach 2.1 million by 1900)
Population of Country: 46.6 million
Official Language: German
Ethnicity of Country: German 89%, Polish 8%, Others 3%
Religion of Country: Protestant 61%, Catholic 36%, Jewish 1%, Other 2%

Culture of Country: Germanic. Romantic art/music/literature still the most popular, but an emerging modernist movement is shocking conservatives.

Stability of Country: Although there is little real fear of an armed rebellion against the government, there is increasing Socialist agitation. The underground Social Democratic Party is an increasingly powerful force in the industrial cities. As well, there are issues with the Catholic and Polish minorities.

Economy of Country: Industrializing rapidly. Nordrreich's economy is growing by leaps and bounds. One of the most aggressively modernizing countries, its industrial infrastructure is among the most modern in the world. Signs are pointing towards Nordrreich replacing Britain as Europe's richest nation by around 1900.

Land Military of Country: Nordrreich maintains a standing army of about 500,000 in peacetime. Equipment is quite modern, and training is excellent. All Nordrreicher men are required to serve in the army for three years, and are in the reserves until the age of forty-five. The General Staff system allows for rapid mobilization continentally. In about a week, a million conscripts can be raised in addition to the peacetime army.*

*= This is an IRL fact. The German Staff system was extremely efficient.

Navy of Country: Nordrreich is among the mightiest countries in the entire world, except in one respect. Its navy. Composed of about forty vessels, only eighteen of which are serviceable combat ships, Nordrreich does not have significant naval power at this time. This is mostly due to Nordrreich's interests being concentrated on the continent.

Other Information: The old Kaiser is known to be in ill health, and his continental-based policy may die with him. The Crown Prince has made speeches about a 'Weltpolitik' that would see Nordrreich become a global power.

Alright. 1880 World map officially e-mailed. Other countries will have to include some sort of country map again so I can add to the World Map. Another thing, a good thing to know before we open another RP thread is where your country is coming from and what it wants.

Application for 1880 RP:
Name of Country: Nordrreich
Head of State: Kaiser Friedrich Wilhelm III
Head of Government: Chancellor Karl von Bulow
Form of Government: Constitutional Monarchy. However, the Reichstag has limited powers. The Chancellor is answerable to the Kaiser, not the Reichstag.
Geographical Location: Central Europe. Conforms exactly to the borders of the Second Reich, aka German Empire of 1871-1918.

Capital of Country: Konigstadt (1,300,000, growing at an insane pace. Predicted to reach 2.1 million by 1900)
Population of Country: 46.6 million
Official Language: German
Ethnicity of Country: German 89%, Polish 8%, Others 3%
Religion of Country: Protestant 61%, Catholic 36%, Jewish 1%, Other 2%

Culture of Country: Germanic. Romantic art/music/literature still the most popular, but an emerging modernist movement is shocking conservatives.

Stability of Country: Although there is little real fear of an armed rebellion against the government, there is increasing Socialist agitation. The underground Social Democratic Party is an increasingly powerful force in the industrial cities. As well, there are issues with the Catholic and Polish minorities.

Economy of Country: Industrializing rapidly. Nordrreich's economy is growing by leaps and bounds. One of the most aggressively modernizing countries, its industrial infrastructure is among the most modern in the world. Signs are pointing towards Nordrreich replacing Britain as Europe's richest nation by around 1900.

Land Military of Country: Nordrreich maintains a standing army of about 500,000 in peacetime. Equipment is quite modern, and training is excellent. All Nordrreicher men are required to serve in the army for three years, and are in the reserves until the age of forty-five. The General Staff system allows for rapid mobilization continentally. In about a week, a million conscripts can be raised in addition to the peacetime army.*

*= This is an IRL fact. The German Staff system was extremely efficient.

Navy of Country: Nordrreich is among the mightiest countries in the entire world, except in one respect. Its navy. Composed of about forty vessels, only eighteen of which are serviceable combat ships, Nordrreich does not have significant naval power at this time. This is mostly due to Nordrreich's interests being concentrated on the continent.

Other Information: The old Kaiser is known to be in ill health, and his continental-based policy may die with him. The Crown Prince has made speeches about a 'Weltpolitik' that would see Nordrreich become a global power.

OOC:You know you posted that as BH, RIGHT?

Ok, heres the map of the ENTIRE world(subject to change)

http://www.freewebs.com/thelightningstar/1880Worldview.jpg

Lol. Oh well. It's there, isn't it? And since this is basically an OOC thread, don't think we need to use that constantly.

Application for 1880 RP:
Name of Country: British Hannover
Head of State: Queen Victoria
Head of Government: Prime Minister Johann Ritter
Form of Government: Constitutional Monarchy. A parliamentary democracy with universal manhood suffrage. Considered one of the most democratic nations on Earth.

Region of Country: North America, Canada
Capital of Country: New Hanover (600,000, growing rapidly)
Population of Country: 28.3 million
Official Language: English, German
Ethnicity of Country: British 35%, German 34%, French 16%, Other 15%
Religion of Country: Protestant 62%, Catholic 36%, Jewish 2%

Culture of Country: Officially English and German, but in reality, the nation is very much multicultural. On the streets of New Hannover, one can expect to find anyone

Stability of Country: Other than certain issues caused by an extremely rapid rate of immigration (about 500,000/annum), British Hannover is extremely stable.

Economy of Country: British Hannover is a developing economic powerhouse, with immense agricultural, mineral and forest resources. As well, there is increasing industrial development in the more populated eastern provinces. British Hannoverian investors are becoming an increasingly common sight outside their borders. The transcontinental railroad currently near completion is hoped to increase the settlement of the West.

Land Military of Country: British Hannover does not maintain a large standing army, as it has no real need of it. Approximately 50,000 men serve in the army, half of which are based in garrisons throughout the country, the other half near New Hannover to serve as a strike force if needed. In the case of invasion, however, British Hannover could raise and finance a much larger army. However, it is not expected to happen.

Navy of Country: British Hannover has a solid navy, comprising of thirty-seven mostly modern vessels, with six modern capital ships. The navy is split up into the Pacific Fleet, which is nine ships, with one of the modern capital ships, and the Atlantic Fleet, which is twenty-eight vessels with five of the modern capital ships.

Other Information: British Hannover recently gained its independence from Britain, although it is still legally connected to Britain. Many of its citizens privately carry in their hearts the ambition of one day being the centre of the mighty British Empire.

OOC> I think I might have to handle NPC duties for the British Empire to make this work.

Application for 1880 RP: Independant Nation
Name of Country: The United Confederacy of Whutehfeckia
Head of State: President Wilhelm Henrickson
Head of Government: President of the Cabinet Franz Hus
Form of Government: Democracy
Region: Southern American island group near the Straits of Magellan.

Population of Country: 5.48 million
Capital: Keilstadt (changes to Luftstadt around 1900)
Official Language: Verwirrtesworts, an obscure dialect of German, with Dutch and English influences
Ethnicity of Country: German, Dutch, Boer, Austrian, American, and Patagonian
Religion of Country: Although there is no official state religion, the main ones practiced are Lutheranism, Catholicism, Anabaptism, and Atheism

Culture of Country: Bizarre mixture of German, Austrian, Dutch, and local South American culture.
Stability of Country: Secure. Small isolationist groups prove no real threat, as the nation thrives, virtually lives off of, on trade from passing ships.
Economy of Country: Excellent. Trade comes in from the Pacific & Atlantic as ships pass through the Straits to their final destinations.
Land Military of Country: 45,000. There's very little land to cover.
Navy of Country: Approx. 15 ships all together, one larger proto-Dreadnought is in the works, schedualed to finish in a year or so. The Carola-class (http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-fornv/germany/gersh-o/olga.htm) SMS Olga is the type of ship Whutehfeckia is at right now.
Other Information: A few small hard-to-control airships are inservice as military observation units.

I'm trying for a small trading nation who's golden day's are soon passing. Is anyone here doing Panama?

Application for 1880 RP: Independant Nation
Name of Country: The United Confederacy of Whutehfeckia
Head of State: President Wilhelm Henrickson
Head of Government: President of the Cabinet Franz Hus
Form of Government: Democracy
Region: Southern American island group near the Straits of Magellan.

Population of Country: 5.48 million
Capital: Keilstadt (changes to Luftstadt around 1900)
Official Language: Verwirrtesworts, an obscure dialect of German, with Dutch and English influences
Ethnicity of Country: German, Dutch, Boer, Austrian, American, and Patagonian
Religion of Country: Although there is no official state religion, the main ones practiced are Lutheranism, Catholicism, Anabaptism, and Atheism

Culture of Country: Bizarre mixture of German, Austrian, Dutch, and local South American culture.
Stability of Country: Secure. Small isolationist groups prove no real threat, as the nation thrives, virtually lives off of, on trade from passing ships.
Economy of Country: Excellent. Trade comes in from the Pacific & Atlantic as ships pass through the Straits to their final destinations.
Land Military of Country: 45,000. There's very little land to cover.
Navy of Country: Approx. 15 ships all together, one larger proto-Dreadnought is in the works, schedualed to finish in a year or so. The Carola-class (http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-fornv/germany/gersh-o/olga.htm) SMS Olga is the type of ship Whutehfeckia is at right now.
Other Information: A few small hard-to-control airships are inservice as military observation units.

I'm trying for a small trading nation who's golden day's are soon passing. Is anyone here doing Panama?


OOC: Well, i live in Panama. If no one else wants it, ill take it as my colony or something. Id have to change to a GP, but my country is big anyhoo.

Well, probably going to have to wait on Panama a bit. You never know who else is going to join before we start. Someone might want to RP as a newly independent Panama.

Lightning Star, you're actually quite unlikely to be able to get any colonies in the Americas- period. The United States was very protective of the Munroe Doctrine, and by this time was able to meaningfully enforce it. As for the colonies that the Europeans already at at this time, the Munroe Doctrine said that they could keep them, although the Spanish didn't keep theirs, heh.

Of course, all the Munroe Doctrine REALLY meant was that the Americas was the US sphere of interest, and all the other Great Powers would have to play by American rules. And the Doctrine only really was enforceable by the US after the Civil War. Before that, though, the British supported it.

Appendix: Wars I See In The Future (Who knows if they'll actually happen))

A Civil War In Sangre de Christo (That is, unless he changes the plot there)
Threat: It's a civil war. The usual, instability, economic crises.
Outcome: Up to Sangre de Christo, really.

Nordrreich Invading Osterlich (Greater German ambitions are a bitch, no?)
Threat: Nordrreich wants Osterlich. Osterlich isn't exactly a powerhouse.
Outcome: Unless a coalition comes to save Osterlich, Osterlich will probably end up annexed by Nordrreich.

Nordrreich Invading Tellacar (GG ambitions + socialists = likely war)
Threat: Nordrreich doesn't like socialists. Nordrreich wants Germans. Germans live in Tellacar, so do socalists. Relations are going to be strained at best
Outcome: Depends on RP. Could get surprisingly ugly.

Lightning Star Fighting Off Various Jealous, Greedy European Pigs: I'm not sure if you agree, Lightning Star, but the way I see it, your country's greatest challenge is going to be getting fully accepted as an independent nation. You might have to win a war and do some smart diplomacy to get that respect.

Britain: Worried about securing Suez Route to India
Threat: Britain's land forces aren't that much to call home about at this time (see Boer War), but a naval blockade could destroy your country. A war could probably be avoided by making sure not to justify British fears. Or you could and get an interesting little war.
Outcome: Dependent on RP, but I don't see Lightning Star winning this one. A blockade would destroy your economy, even if you won nearly every land battle. (and you'd probably do well on land against Britain) However, I doubt the British would want to annex your country or anything like that.


Italy: Wants various chunks of Africa
Threat: I suspect that Lightning Star could win a war against Italy relatively handily. Modern Italy hasn't exactly been known for its military prestige, or for incredible determination. A few successful battles would probably convince them to quit Lightning Star. A fairly decent way to obtain prestige.
Outcome: Depends on RP. Probably a reasonably quick, moderately costly victory for Lightning Star. Italian humiliation, prestige ... etc.

France: Wants various chunks of Africa
Threat: Moderate. The French land army seemed to do fairly well in African conflicts generally. How to resolve? An understanding with Nordrreich would scare the hell out of the French.
Outcome: Depends on RP. But the French were fairly stubborn regarding their colonial ambitions. Most likely outcome would probably be a negotiated peace of some sort.

Portugal: Wants Mozambique Back.
Threat: Fairly weak. Portugal can't throw that much at you, really.
Outcome: Portugal is unlikely to get the nerve to attack you itself. It might, however, attach itself to another country in the hopes of getting territory back.

Nordrreich: Wants various bits of country.
Threat: Almost nil at current point, potentially serious in future.
Outcome: Nordrreich is fairly unlikely to attack you unless they're really hard up for colonies. Also, the navy would have to be altered. As it stands, the loss of the Nordrreich export market would hurt more than anything. Good relations with them, however, might decrease your chances of being attacked by a European country.

Well, probably going to have to wait on Panama a bit. You never know who else is going to join before we start. Someone might want to RP as a newly independent Panama.

Lightning Star, you're actually quite unlikely to be able to get any colonies in the Americas- period. The United States was very protective of the Munroe Doctrine, and by this time was able to meaningfully enforce it. As for the colonies that the Europeans already at at this time, the Munroe Doctrine said that they could keep them, although the Spanish didn't keep theirs, heh.

Of course, all the Munroe Doctrine REALLY meant was that the Americas was the US sphere of interest, and all the other Great Powers would have to play by American rules. And the Doctrine only really was enforceable by the US after the Civil War. Before that, though, the British supported it.

Appendix: Wars I See In The Future (Who knows if they'll actually happen))

A Civil War In Sangre de Christo (That is, unless he changes the plot there)
Threat: It's a civil war. The usual, instability, economic crises.
Outcome: Up to Sangre de Christo, really.

Nordrreich Invading Osterlich (Greater German ambitions are a bitch, no?)
Threat: Nordrreich wants Osterlich. Osterlich isn't exactly a powerhouse.
Outcome: Unless a coalition comes to save Osterlich, Osterlich will probably end up annexed by Nordrreich.

Nordrreich Invading Tellacar (GG ambitions + socialists = likely war)
Threat: Nordrreich doesn't like socialists. Nordrreich wants Germans. Germans live in Tellacar, so do socalists. Relations are going to be strained at best
Outcome: Depends on RP. Could get surprisingly ugly.

Lightning Star Fighting Off Various Jealous, Greedy European Pigs: I'm not sure if you agree, Lightning Star, but the way I see it, your country's greatest challenge is going to be getting fully accepted as an independent nation. You might have to win a war and do some smart diplomacy to get that respect.

Britain: Worried about securing Suez Route to India
Threat: Britain's land forces aren't that much to call home about at this time (see Boer War), but a naval blockade could destroy your country. A war could probably be avoided by making sure not to justify British fears. Or you could and get an interesting little war.
Outcome: Dependent on RP, but I don't see Lightning Star winning this one. A blockade would destroy your economy, even if you won nearly every land battle. (and you'd probably do well on land against Britain) However, I doubt the British would want to annex your country or anything like that.


Italy: Wants various chunks of Africa
Threat: I suspect that Lightning Star could win a war against Italy relatively handily. Modern Italy hasn't exactly been known for its military prestige, or for incredible determination. A few successful battles would probably convince them to quit Lightning Star. A fairly decent way to obtain prestige.
Outcome: Depends on RP. Probably a reasonably quick, moderately costly victory for Lightning Star. Italian humiliation, prestige ... etc.

France: Wants various chunks of Africa
Threat: Moderate. The French land army seemed to do fairly well in African conflicts generally. How to resolve? An understanding with Nordrreich would scare the hell out of the French.
Outcome: Depends on RP. But the French were fairly stubborn regarding their colonial ambitions. Most likely outcome would probably be a negotiated peace of some sort.

Portugal: Wants Mozambique Back.
Threat: Fairly weak. Portugal can't throw that much at you, really.
Outcome: Portugal is unlikely to get the nerve to attack you itself. It might, however, attach itself to another country in the hopes of getting territory back.

Nordrreich: Wants various bits of country.
Threat: Almost nil at current point, potentially serious in future.
Outcome: Nordrreich is fairly unlikely to attack you unless they're really hard up for colonies. Also, the navy would have to be altered. As it stands, the loss of the Nordrreich export market would hurt more than anything. Good relations with them, however, might decrease your chances of being attacked by a European country.

Yes, the monroe doctrine was strict, but america didnt start flexing its muscles until the 1890's, when it actually HAD a navy.

on the topic of the wars

I seem to be at the center of all these wars, and they all make sense. However, a War with the U.K. could turn nasty. A guerilla war, for example. I ALSO agree that id probably lose, but i could win if i were REALLY crafty and such. Plus, i could forge a coalitian with local african nations and maybe end the war with a stalemate. Its kinda hard to win a war against an entire continent, expecially when your empire is just starting to decline.(plus, remember all those REbellions in the Sudan and such?)

It has the potential to be an interesting war. Although Britain could make its own alliances ... perhaps it would do so with the Boers, or those Ethiopians. It could get pretty complicated. And a good RP war, actually. :D

As for the colonial ambitions, that might be true that the US's navy was not quite up to par yet. But Britain tended to go along with the Munroe Doctrine, as it did little to harm its (mostly trading) interests. It's not impossible, but you'd have to come to an understanding somehow with both parties.

It has the potential to be an interesting war. Although Britain could make its own alliances ... perhaps it would do so with the Boers, or those Ethiopians. It could get pretty complicated. And a good RP war, actually. :D

As for the colonial ambitions, that might be true that the US's navy was not quite up to par yet. But Britain tended to go along with the Munroe Doctrine, as it did little to harm its (mostly trading) interests. It's not impossible, but you'd have to come to an understanding somehow with both parties.

Yup

tag

WEll, now that we have *mostly* figured out what the new threads are gonna look like, when are we gonna start? We can't rush, but its been more than one day so we should have something down soon.

is it too late to get in on this? Sounds like a good RP, and no nukes, always a plus.

Real power politics and protracted conflict, instead of the usual I nuke you, you nuke me, lets see where the fall out goes school of threads that are common.

If I can get in, just tell me where there is room and where I can place myself, although by my nation name North America would be preferred, I can play anywhere you need a state.

is it too late to get in on this? Sounds like a good RP, and no nukes, always a plus.

Real power politics and protracted conflict, instead of the usual I nuke you, you nuke me, lets see where the fall out goes school of threads that are common.

If I can get in, just tell me where there is room and where I can place myself, although by my nation name North America would be preferred, I can play anywhere you need a state.

Its not too late! Just fill out a form similar to the one i did and you'll be FINE! Here are a few rules tho.

Only Great powers can have colonies
Only great powers can have more than 35 million
You cant make a great power in Africa or australia(thats taken by me.)
You can make one in all the other continents tho(besides antarctica)
you cant have more than 50 million people.

of course, those are only the rules i remember, nordrreich has the offical list.

OOC> This is Nordrreich. And Osterlich.

Galveston Bay, eh? What about the Republic of Texas? You don't have to go with that or anything, but it's an idea. If the Civil War went badly for the US, and the South earned its independence, Texas might have gone independent fairly rapidly. Or the Confederate States of America is another option.

Lightning Star OOC: Fairly soon, yeah. I'm waiting on a friend or two of mine that expressed interest, really.

Lightning Star Business: Might want to do a bit of pre-plotting about any war between Britain and Lightning Star (which seems quite possible, depending on how it acts). My feeling is that there might be two wars, one fairly quickly, resulting in a stalemate. (Britain's navy is strangling LS's economy, but LS is capable of resisting the land attacks to really shut it down.)

Then later, a revenge war that would wrap in with the IRL WWI. I'm not sure how you feel about this, but I think Lightning Star and Nordrreich might make natural allies. Especially if/when Anglo-Nordrreich relations sour.

Rules:
All of the above are correct.

OOC> This is Nordrreich. And Osterlich.

Galveston Bay, eh? What about the Republic of Texas?

Lightning Star OOC: Fairly soon, yeah. I'm waiting on a friend or two of mine that expressed interest, really.

Lightning Star Business: Might want to do a bit of pre-plotting about any war between Britain and Lightning Star (which seems quite possible, depending on how it acts). My feeling is that there might be two wars, one fairly quickly, resulting in a stalemate. (Britain's navy is strangling LS's economy, but LS is capable of resisting the land attacks to really shut it down.)

Then later, a revenge war that would wrap in with the IRL WWI. I'm not sure how you feel about this, but I think Lightning Star and Nordrreich might make natural allies. Especially if/when Anglo-Nordrreich relations sour.


Hmmm. If only you had AIM or GAIM. :D

Anyhoo, a war between TLS and Britain would need some thinking. Nordrreich and TLS might make good allies, but not natural ones. Sure, people speak German, but Boers and Germans are similar and TLSians HATE Boers. But since they ARENT Boers its deffinetly possible.

I do have AIM. Deutsche Devil.

Most Boers were Dutch, although there was a certain German element. While there is German sympathy in general for the Boers, they might choose to disregard that for reasons of state. I don't think it's an immediate alliance, but one that might develop over time.

As for the Boers themselves, it might be that unlike IRL, the Boers and British might enter an alliance against Lightning Star. Among other things, Cecil Rhodes is going to be shouting about the southern portion of your country.

And although I know I'm 'British Hannover' right now, I'm going to post Osterlich's national bio. I changed it a mite.

Whutehfeckia: The airplane wasn't invented until the early 20th century (1904?). Balloon corps or even a primitive dirigible might be possible, though.

Application for 1880 RP: Independant Nation
Name of Country: The Dual Monarchy of Osterlich and Bohemia-Moravia
Head of State: Queen Maria Theresa
Head of Government: Chancellor Clemens von Kluck

Form of Government: Constitutional Monarchy. Democratic in structure, but noted as a very moralistic state.
Region: Austria and Czech Republic. Austria is a bit larger at this time, though.

Population of Country: 13.6 million
Capital: Vienna (population 1,500,000, growing rapidly)
Official Language: German and Czech
Ethnicity of Country: 48% German, 43% Czech, 9% Other
Religion of Country: Catholic 74%, Protestant 16%, Jewish 5%, Other 5%

Culture of Country: Mixed German and Slavic, although most educated and/or middle/upper class Czechs are partly assimilated into German culture. Vienna is a major world cultural centre. Prague is also a major regional centre.

Stability of Country: Internally relatively secure, although there is a small Czech seperatist movement. However, the state lives in the shadow of Nordrreich. Socialists cause some trouble in the more industrialized areas.

Economy of Country: The Dual Monarchy's two primary units have rather different economies. Osterlich is not heavily industrialized, but relies on agriculture and services for the most part. Vienna is a major financial hub. Bohemia-Moravia is increasingly industralized, and is a major producer of coal, iron ore and steel for the Dual Monarchy.

Land Military of Country: The Dual Monarchy commands forces of approximately 125,000 men. Equipment is moderate, but tends to be getting a bit old. There are heavy fortifications in much of the country, however.

Navy of Country: The Dual Monarchy has only a small fleet, as its entry to the sea is quite small. Only 14 relatively modern warships are in the Adriatic Fleet, although there are also some small vessels in the Danube River fleet.

Other Information:

BH. Get on AIM. NOOOOOWWWWWW!!!!

War appendix? I'd probably get in a war with South Africa, Panama, or any nation which seems to be interfering with Whutehfeckian commerce and/or trying to take it over. Seriously, if somebody starts to build a canal in Panama, I'll try to blow it up.

BH: I never said I had airplanes. I said I had a few crude airships in service, such as small air balloons with a rudimentary steering system, like a primitive blimp. No real Zeppelins, though. Those only began being worked on in the late 1890s, if memory serves correctly.

working on my application, not sure how to get a map available, but figure Texas, with the addition of Oklahoma (Indian Territory back then)

Whutehfeckia: Okay. Just checking.

Galveston Bay: Sounds good.

decided that Texas, Arkansas, and Oklahoma seem reasonable.... see below for details

Name of Country: Republic of Texas (player nation is Galveston Bay)
Head of State: President Oran Roberts
Head of Government: President Oran Roberts

Form of Government: Democracy (although only males and females over 21 who can write in English can vote), with a formal constitution based on US model and same Bill of Rights.

Capital: Austin major cities: Houston, Galveston, San Antonio, Dallas, Tulsa, Little Rock, Hot Springs
Population: 3 million

Official Language: English
other languages commonly spoken: Spanish, German, various Native American

Ethnicity: White Anglo Saxon primarily, but 5% Black, 5% Mexican, 5% Native American, 5% various European immigrant

Religion of country: No official religion but 80% Protestant, 15% Catholic, 5% other(native american)

Cultures: North American frontier (mix of the Old West and Old South with an Indian and Spanish flavor)

Stability: Very stable political system, although dueling is still a problem outside of the halls of government and to settle disputes of honor. Slavery is no longer legal, as the massive slave rebellions in the Old South after the Civil War and breakup of the United States caused Texas to expel many slaves, most others fled, and the remainder became free (and mostly moved to western areas to escape old prejudices). The Republic is divided into 7 States; Pecos, Old Texas, Edwards (central Texas), East Texas, South Texas, Arkansas and Oklahoma.

Economy: Principally agricultural, with ranching dominating, but also cotton farming (sharecrop system), independent family farming, and timber cutting on a large scale. Some industry in Houston and Little Rock, limited elsewhere. Limited small scale oil production for lamps and the like. Substantial trade with Mexico, with Texas buying coal, and exchanging Texas finished goods for Mexican silver. Extensive trade with the rest of North America with cattle being shipped out from Galveston or driven overland to Arkansas (with a rail line connecting St. Louis to Houston through Arkansas being completed in 1879).

Military: 20,000 in the Army with 8 cavalry regiments (guarding frontier and fighting Indians), 12 Infantry regiments (manning 12 large forts), and a few support troops plus the Texas Rangers (regimental size but operates in companies or smaller).
A small navy of 6 Monitors (at Galveston), 12 steam gunboats (various locations), and 3 steam sloop of war (international presence and to show the flag), 2,000 Men total
Large militia however of nearly 50,000 organized into regiments, brigades and divisions.
The regular army and militia officers have extensive experience (Civil War, Indian Wars), but the average militia is relatively green except in the plains regions (Indian Fighting)

The Army is equipped with European breech loading rifles, Colt revolvers and the Cavalry is actually mounted infantry or dragoons more than saber wielding horse soldiers (on the US Civil War model, not European model)

Other Information: In 1864, after a series of defeats including Chickamauga, Chattanooga and Knoxville, Lincoln lost the election of 1864 and the North agreed to peace with the South. However, the seeds of the destruction of the South and further breakup of the Union were in place. A series of bloody riots sparked further civil war in the North, preventing the construction of the transcontinental railroad and the states of California, Nevada, Washington and Oregon formed their own nation, the Pacific Republic*. Utah followed as well, forming the Mormon Republic of Deseret. The Plains Indians managed to hold out in the Great Plains, nearly isolating Colorado and New Mexico until the aftermath of the crushing of the Great Rebellion allowed the North to settle accounts with them and retain control over Kansas and the link to Colorado and New Mexico.

In the Old South, the Civil War ended between the North and South, but began again as a race war between black and white. Savage fighting tore the South apart, and in disgust, Texas quite the Confederacy, while Arkansas managed to prevent rebellion and remained independent of everyone else (forming an alliance with Texas). Concerned about a slave rebellion in Texas, many blacks were freed on the condition that they left Texas and most did in short order (moving to Louisiana, Mexico or the Old South). By 1870, the situation had finally stabilized but North America now consisted of several nations instead of a United States. Texas, which now included the Indian territory, the Confederacy (which spread back into the south from Louisiana and Virginia), the Pacific Republic, and the United States, with the Great Plains north of Kansas / Colorado and much of the Rockies being essentially left to the Indians. Arkansas chose to join Texas and the Indian Territory (essentially the 5 Civilized Tribes) in forming the Republic of Texas in 1869.

The two eastern nations were too exhausted from nearly a decade of war to even consider reabsorbing Texas and the Pacific Republic and Utah was not considered worth the cost of dealing with it.

Colony: the Republic of Texas has no colonies and is barely out of that stage itself.


(President was the governor of Texas in 1880, population figures from US census of 1880 with some adjustment up and down for events in the timeline)

*name created for convenience of the narrative, can be changed

ooc
If this doesnt fit well, I could always play the Pacific Republic instead

Sounds good. *thumbs up* Accepted. Actually, I'm quite impressed overall.

This is shaping up to be rather interesting. There's a lot of differences from the IRL 1880, but that's alright.

PC Nation List: (And ultra-brief description, as I see it.)
British Hannover: A thriving, rapidly developing nation whose greatest desire is glory for the Empire and profit.
Nordrreich: Newly unified, Nordrreich seeks to consolidate its position as the hegemonic power in Europe.
Osterlich: Once a powerful force in European politics, Osterlich now lives in the shadow of its much more powerful neighbour.
Tellacar: A socialist utopia in the midst of a hostile continent.
Lightning Star: A former colony, now wealthy and desiring to become master of the Dark Continent.
Whutehfeckia: A small, wealthy trading nation whose golden age is soon to come to an end.
Republic of Texas: A newly independent North American state, Texas must find its way in the increasingly complicated politics of North America.
Sangre de Christo: A small state straddling various North American states and Mexico, plagued by conflict between Mexican and Anglo groups.

War appendix? I'd probably get in a war with South Africa, Panama, or any nation which seems to be interfering with Whutehfeckian commerce and/or trying to take it over. Seriously, if somebody starts to build a canal in Panama, I'll try to blow it up.

BH: I never said I had airplanes. I said I had a few crude airships in service, such as small air balloons with a rudimentary steering system, like a primitive blimp. No real Zeppelins, though. Those only began being worked on in the late 1890s, if memory serves correctly.

Heh heh heh, looks like you and me are on a collison course.

Im the master of Trade in the southern seas, with ships coming as far east as Japan and as far west as Peru.

And BTW- Panama was part of the Columbian Empire then. It was only a free nation after its 1903 bloodless(well, almost bloodless) independence from Columbia. It celebrated its 100th year of independence last year on Nov. 4(or third, im really bad at remmebering which of the two)

How do i know all this? Check my location =D

I could come up with a few NPCs if you need them.

I could come up with a few NPCs if you need them.

Well, only in the case of war with an NPC country.

Although, if someone invades Panama or Pakistan i'd like to RP the NPC defenders(because i lived in both places so i know quite a bit on how they would defend themselves.)

I'd probably end up against you in Columbian Panama. Better start entrenching now!

I'd probably end up against you in Columbian Panama. Better start entrenching now!

Heh. You wish. Panama had the Backing of the U.S. since the early 1850's. It had tried to get Panamanian Independence before then, too.

So expect a U.S. Naval Fleet at your doorstep in the coming weeks.

Whutehfeckia:
That's a good offer, but NPC's are a dicey issue with new applications coming in. But it is something that will come up.

Lightning Star:
Pakistan is a part of British India at this time. North American politics is going to be interesting, without an undisputed Great Power (the US) to enforce the Munroe doctrine. British Hannover is ambivalent on the issue of Panama and any canal. There's the knowledge that the railroad cities will suffer greatly, but at the same time, it does aid naval mobility. The Canal might end up becoming multinational, that is, an effort of cooperation between a group of countries.

BUMP!*

*= Apparently coined and/or popularized by Shakespeare, along with a lot of other words.

having finally found the map of Sangre de Christo it would seem at some point Texas and Sangre de Christo came to some sort of agreement... of course the fact that the portion of Texas he occupies is essentially empty dry wilderness except for the Rio Grande Valley and El Paso probably made that easy anyway

the potential conflict would be if Sangre de Christo is unable to keep the Comanches and Apaches under control and prevent border raids... Texas REALLY doesn't like the Comanches (they were the closest thing to the Mongols this continent ever had and raided for slaves and loot, not to protect their land...at least not initially)

But if relations stay peaceful, a reasonable trade relationship should exist at first anyway.. the problem is that if Texas wants a path to the Pacific it goes through El Paso and into Chihuahua and on to Sonora (in the current day a rather impressive railline makes that trip).. neither Texas or Sangre de Christo is going to be able to build that without borrowing money from either the British or the Yankees (which is what Texas calls the United States) and historically that got Mexico into trouble

At least until we both strike oil (Mexico in the 1910s, Texas in 1900 in a big way).... then those damn Yankees and Rebs are going to be eyeing both of us

Heh. You wish. Panama had the Backing of the U.S. since the early 1850's. It had tried to get Panamanian Independence before then, too.

So expect a U.S. Naval Fleet at your doorstep in the coming weeks.

Texas is going to look closely at anyone from the othe hemisphere moving into the Americas as well.... Panama is uncomfortably close to our rather unstable neighbor Mexico

not that our squadron of three Hartford class steam / sail hybrid sloops of war picked up at a discount from the US Navy surplus or RN surplus is going to be a major danger to a real fleet

coal powered steam ships require a lot of coaling stations, or have to arrange for colliers.... the longest voyage by a fleet prior to the advent of oil fired ships was the Russian Baltic Fleets doomed voyage to Tsushima in 1905, and it took months and was definitely an epic adventure... any fleet from Pakistan is going to have to coal at either Madagascar (which hadnt really been pacified by the French yet) or Capetown, and then again in Argentina, Brazil or Senegal (French again in this case) and the British kept a rather sizeable South Atlantic squadron of cruisers to keep an eye on things and would notice and send their fastest light cruiser to Gibraltar or the US (New York) and use undersea cables to telegraph a warning home (undersea cables
exist by late 1870s)

so nobodys going to sneak into the Caribbean, especially past the British Caribbean Squadron and whatever the North Americans have patrolling the area

better luck would be had sneaking through the Pacific (once you get past the Dutch East Indies you are in a relatively ill patrolled area, but the British, Germans, French and probably North Americans have bases in the area too)

The Dreadnought (1906) was extremely fast for its day at 18 knots... most predreadnoughts, especially in the 1880s thought they were zipping along at 12 knots

But Panama is esentially undefended and a few gunboats and merchant ships if carefully planned, could "happen" to be in the area at the right time and place... maybe...in OTL, Panama seceded when the single regiment of troops defected and a US Cruiser "happened' to be lurking about

coal powered steam ships require a lot of coaling stations, or have to arrange for colliers.... the longest voyage by a fleet prior to the advent of oil fired ships was the Russian Baltic Fleets doomed voyage to Tsushima in 1905, and it took months and was definitely an epic adventure... any fleet from Pakistan is going to have to coal at either Madagascar (which hadnt really been pacified by the French yet) or Capetown, and then again in Argentina, Brazil or Senegal (French again in this case) and the British kept a rather sizeable South Atlantic squadron of cruisers to keep an eye on things and would notice and send their fastest light cruiser to Gibraltar or the US (New York) and use undersea cables to telegraph a warning home (undersea cables
exist by late 1870s)

so nobodys going to sneak into the Caribbean, especially past the British Caribbean Squadron and whatever the North Americans have patrolling the area

better luck would be had sneaking through the Pacific (once you get past the Dutch East Indies you are in a relatively ill patrolled area, but the British, Germans, French and probably North Americans have bases in the area too)

The Dreadnought (1906) was extremely fast for its day at 18 knots... most predreadnoughts, especially in the 1880s thought they were zipping along at 12 knots

But Panama is esentially undefended and a few gunboats and merchant ships if carefully planned, could "happen" to be in the area at the right time and place... maybe...in OTL, Panama seceded when the single regiment of troops defected and a US Cruiser "happened' to be lurking about

OOC: Im not coming FROM Pakistan. I just said if they got attacked id help em.

Im situated on the East African Coast.

An PAnama ACTUALLY seceded when the People rebelled for the umpteenth time. This time, however, the U.S. Navy and Marines stopped the Columbians from attacking Panama city. Of course, the only reason the U.S. supported the rebellion was because Columbia wouldn't let them build the canal and the Panamanians did.

Ok. This is going so fast. But Since what has come out i will change my nation quite much. Now the land i govern is Fennoscandia, meaning today's Sweden, Norway and Finland. And i made a new application:

Application for 1880 RP: (INDEPENDENT NATION )
Name of Country: The Imperium of Estholad
Head of State: Chancellor Welemir Cetal
Head of Government: Spokesman Gilea Dahas

Form of Government: The country is ruled by a voted goverment, but the Chancellor has veto right for every decision and has also great influance on council's decision's. You could say that the country is actually ruled by the Chancellor. The goverment is rather liberal.
Region: Europe (Norway,Sweden, Finland)
Population of Country:9 million
Capital: Stockholm
Official Language: Swedish, Norwegian and Finnish
Ethnicity of Country: 40% Swedish, 31%Norwegian, 25% Finnish, 2%Russian,
2% other's.

Religion of Country: Official Lutheric, 65% Lutheric, 25% Catholic, 10% Orthodocs

Culture of Country: Swedish culture on the major
Stability of Country: Stable. Though there are some tension's between different state's of the Imperium, and also between imperialist's and democrat's.

Economy of Country: Strong. Country's ecenomy mostly based on naval trade , exporting tar from finnish forest's and acrigulture. Altough the public ecenomy is in small trouble's becouse company's are taxed only very little.
Luckily goverment does own a large portion of the "tar industry".

Land Military of Country:Imperium's army cosisted of 25,000 soldier's. It has 10 cavalry regiment's and 13 Infantry regiment's. Also there's the Chancellor's Guard regiment, a elite unit of the Army, and the Finnish Border Guard regiment wich is also an elite unit, but is rather spread out on the Russian border. Cavalry are mainly Dragoon's trained in Swedish style, but there's also 2 finnish Hakkapeliitta regiment's. Most troop's are well trained and armed.
Rifle used by Estholadian Infantrymen
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/uploaded/dutchman/200441214593_89aaaa.jpg
Estholadian Cavalry Carabin:
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/uploaded/capnduane/2004413194951_macroshots%20082.jpg

Navy of Country: The Imperium has a very large navy to protect it's trade capacities. However the Navy is a bit out of it's time becouse Estholad's lack of steel. The Navy consists of 13 Heavy Fregates (big wooden ships), 32 smaller wooden ships(corvettes etc.), and only 2 modern steam pre-dreadnought's.

Other Information:



OOC: A bit more ready now. However if you know pages with info on swedish military on late 1800's link me please.

Heh. You wish. Panama had the Backing of the U.S. since the early 1850's. It had tried to get Panamanian Independence before then, too.

So expect a U.S. Naval Fleet at your doorstep in the coming weeks.
Just remember, with Sangre de Christo and Texas (Wouldn't Texarkana fit better in this case?), there is no strong US. Sure the USA still exists, but it'd probably be more tied up with the CSA and Northern American politics.

Galveston Bay:
You're right about the coaling stations. One of the reasons why Britain maintained those tiny shreds of West Africa. And yeah, the USA isn't quite a global power. Certainly a prosperous nation, but much diminished.

Estholad:
Sounds good. And probably a more realistic situation than maintaining enclaves on the German Baltic Coast. Which would have been an incredibly dangerous situation. And yeah, it is moving pretty fast. It might be a good idea to slow it down a bit for the actual RP.

Westminster Accord:
A light RP thread to keep things alive before the big stuff starts happening.

Texarkana is probably more accurate (except it leaves out Oklahoma) but the Texans did something is easier to type and say (and has a better ring) than the Texarkaners (or Texarkanans) did something :)

I am hoping that I have good relations with the US as they probably hate the CSA more and value California more highly (and Texas, Arkansas and Oklahoma don't have a lot of value relatively speaking that is worth the cost of reconquering)

I also am hoping I have at least cordial relations with the CSA, although they are less important (except for access to New Orleans)

Just remember, with Sangre de Christo and Texas (Wouldn't Texarkana fit better in this case?), there is no strong US. Sure the USA still exists, but it'd probably be more tied up with the CSA and Northern American politics.

Ahem, 1 There would have been NO civil war, no. 2 those areas didnt make big impacts on the U.S. untill the 1900's(before it was just Cow Boy land), and 3. The NORTH is where all the weapons and good stuff was made.

So yes, America would STILL protect Panama.

Thats just like saying the British Empire wouldn't care about the rest of the world if it lost Northern Ireland.

Other Information: In 1864, after a series of defeats including Chickamauga, Chattanooga and Knoxville, Lincoln lost the election of 1864 and the North agreed to peace with the South. However, the seeds of the destruction of the South and further breakup of the Union were in place. A series of bloody riots sparked further civil war in the North, preventing the construction of the transcontinental railroad and the states of California, Nevada, Washington and Oregon formed their own nation, the Pacific Republic*. Utah followed as well, forming the Mormon Republic of Deseret. The Plains Indians managed to hold out in the Great Plains, nearly isolating Colorado and New Mexico until the aftermath of the crushing of the Great Rebellion allowed the North to settle accounts with them and retain control over Kansas and the link to Colorado and New Mexico.

In the Old South, the Civil War ended between the North and South, but began again as a race war between black and white. Savage fighting tore the South apart, and in disgust, Texas quite the Confederacy, while Arkansas managed to prevent rebellion and remained independent of everyone else (forming an alliance with Texas). Concerned about a slave rebellion in Texas, many blacks were freed on the condition that they left Texas and most did in short order (moving to Louisiana, Mexico or the Old South). By 1870, the situation had finally stabilized but North America now consisted of several nations instead of a United States. Texas, which now included the Indian territory, the Confederacy (which spread back into the south from Louisiana and Virginia), the Pacific Republic, and the United States, with the Great Plains north of Kansas / Colorado and much of the Rockies being essentially left to the Indians. Arkansas chose to join Texas and the Indian Territory (essentially the 5 Civilized Tribes) in forming the Republic of Texas in 1869.

The two eastern nations were too exhausted from nearly a decade of war to even consider reabsorbing Texas and the Pacific Republic and Utah was not considered worth the cost of dealing with it.

Colony: the Republic of Texas has no colonies and is barely out of that stage itself.


(President was the governor of Texas in 1880, population figures from US census of 1880 with some adjustment up and down for events in the timeline)

*name created for convenience of the narrative, can be changed

ooc
If this doesnt fit well, I could always play the Pacific Republic instead
1.) According to Galveston's application, the American Civil War DID occur, not only losing the South, but also the Pacific region.

2.) California certainly had an impact on the USA in the 19th Century.

3.) True. The CSA would have many issues to deal with involving the USA.

EDIT: and also, Galveston, since Texarkanans is an akward name for a people, why not just call them Texarks? "Look at the Texarks o'er yonder!"

for this roleplay just going to stick with Republic of Texas (formal name is Republic of Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma and Galveston Bay but Texas for short).... :)

besides, I am a Texan (although currently misplaced and living in California but a Texan at heart)

so the Texans will be doing whatever I need to do in the RP

(besides, couldn't call myself Republic of Texas when I created the nation, that is a retired name, and the various variations are taken... alas)

California gold (which continued to be mined in breathtaking amounts well into the 1880s) and Nevada silver (the Comstock mine remains the biggest silver mine ever discovered in total amount mined) where extremely important to the development of the US banking and finance system...

the Pacific Republic (or whatever it will be called) is an exceptionally cash rich area, but lacks any substantial industry (steel for the transcontinental railroad was a big impetus to the development of industry in California and even then, the locomotives where shipped around Cape Horn to California for a number of years)

definitely a lot more valuable than little ole Texas or Sangre de Christo.. which until oil shows up (just as its needed) in 1901, has a primary export of cattle, cotton and wheat, and aside from a little bit of silver in Arizona and New Mexico, that portion of Mexico and the American Southwest didn't really have any exports...(until some big silver mines turn up in Sonora and Chihuahua in the 1890s)

sometimes its good to be unimportant.. the US has bigger fish to fry hopefully than us..

speaking of which, the Texans are going to approach Sangre de Christo about a mutual defense treaty, a commercial treaty, and over free trade status if the same is offered us (which gives them access to a port via rail once one is built linking El Paso and the Pacific west coast) and Texas access to a west coast port. Perhaps we can talk to British Hannover about getting their mother country or themselves to help us finance it?

Lightning Star- There is a Civil War, for two reasons. One, we haven't done anything to limit its odds of existing. Secondly, Texas needs to exist SOMEHOW. And the Civil War is pretty much the only way how.

Galveston Bay- British Hannover and/or the British Empire would probably be willing to help, yes. And as for USA/CSA tension, I'm sure that would be a big part of American politics.

Is it too late to join? If not I'd like to RP what my nation would have been in this period. According to the history I wrote for it, this would be in the period that it became independant from The Ottoman Empire.


Name of Country: Independant Republic of Elias
Head of State: Eliahu-Ezra Elias Pasha
Head of Government: President Eliahu-Ezra Elias Pasha
Form of Government: Plutocratic Oligarchy
Region: Mesopotamia and Northern Arabia

Population of Country: 14.54 million
Capital: Baghdad
Official Language: Arabic
Ethnicity of Country: Arab, Kurdish, Turkoman, Assyrian and Sephardic Jewish
Religion of Country: Secular Government, Mostly Sunni and Shiite Muslim as well as Jewish and Christian minorities
Culture of Country: Combination of Arab as well as Turkish on account of years of Ottoman rule
Stability of Country: Mostly stable but as in all newly independant countires, there is some disagreement on form of government, the role of religon and the leadership.
Economy of Country: Very Strong. Massive Trade in spices from the Orient as well as exports of cotton and textiles goods.
Land Military of Country: 135,000: Former troops of the Ottoman Sixth Army, mostly conscripts and infantrymen equipped with combination of antiquated Turkish and modern British weaponry. Also elite division of cavalry known as the Sipahi
Navy of Country: Approx. 15 ships all together, predominantly old-fashioned steamships and early ironclads as well as auxiliaries. Further 20 or so smaller boats serve as a riverine force.
Other Information: To Follow.

Nope, not too late to join at all. And you're accepted to boot. Although I'd be careful about the textile industry, which IRL, would have a hard time competing with the enormous quantities of insanely cheap cloth produced by British factories at the time, not to mention all the other industrial powerhouses. But that's not saying that you can't have a textile industry by any means. And by Northern Arabia, I'm going to pretty much assume you mean Saudi Arabia in its modern borders.

OOC: Sorry for posting it again but as my previous post is a few pages behind and i have updated this for now.

Application for 1880 RP: (INDEPENDENT NATION )
Name of Country: The Imperium of Estholad
Head of State: Chancellor Welemir Cetal
Head of Government: Spokesman Gilea Dahas
Form of Government: The country is ruled by a elected goverment, but the Chancellor has veto right for every decision and has also great influance on council's decision's. You could say that the country is actually ruled by the Chancellor. The goverment is rather liberal.
Region: Europe (Norway,Sweden, Finland)
Population of Country:9 million
Capital: Stockholm
Official Language: Swedish, Norwegian and Finnish
Ethnicity of Country: 40% Swedish, 31%Norwegian, 25% Finnish, 2%Russian,
2% other's.
Religion of Country: Official Lutheric, 65% Lutheric, 25% Catholic, 10% Orthodocs
Culture of Country: Swedish culture on the major
Stability of Country: Stable. Though there are some tension's between different state's of the Imperium, and also between imperialist's and democrat's.
Economy of Country: Strong. Country's ecenomy mostly based on naval trade , exporting tar from finnish forest's and acrigulture. Also there is a sufficient amount of resources in the Scandinavian Mts. but very little Coal. Altough the public ecenomy is in small trouble's becouse company's are taxed only very little.
Land Military of Country:Imperium's army cosisted of 33,000 soldier's. It has 13 cavalry regiment's and 18 Infantry regiment's. Also there's the Chancellor's Guard regiment, a elite unit of the Army, and the Finnish Border Guard regiment wich is also an elite unit, but is rather spread out on the Russian border. Cavalry are mainly Dragoon's trained in Swedish style, but there's also 2 finnish Hakkapeliitta regiment's. All troop's are well trained and armed.

Rifle used by Estholadian Infantrymen
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/upl...4593_89aaaa.jpg
Estholadian Cavalry Carabin:
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/upl...shots%20082.jpg

Navy of Country: The Imperium has a very large navy to protect it's trade capacities. However the Navy is a bit out of it's time becouse Estholad's lack of steel. The Navy consists of 17 Heavy Fregates (big wooden ships), 32 smaller wooden ships(corvettes etc.), and only 3 modern steam pre-dreadnought's and 6 smaller steamships.

Other Information:
Estholad is basicly the Kingdom of Sweden-Norway, but it did take part in the Crimean War agains't Russia, in order to retake Finland from Russia. It did succeed, and soonly after Finland was under control of Swedish troop's, Russia and Estholad made peace. That was as Estholad had succeeded in reclaiming Finland what was it's goal, and Russia was afraid that Estholadian troop's could capture St. Petersburg.

Still the Imperium is fading back a little bit, since as the world is at the brink of Industrialization, and Imperium has only small resources of Coal, and therefore isn't able to maintain large enough modern Navy, nor Industrialize itself fast enough.

The Chancellor and the council do agree that Estholad should grow up it's influence, and grab some more land. The problem is no one seem's so know where to attack. Invading Danmark or Iceland have been brought up, but since neither one of those has large number of resources wich Estholad needs, nor large military influence, those plan's haven't got too much support. Also there has been some talking about attacking Russia, but most of people strongly disagree with that becouse Russia is still very strong.


OOC: Id love it if someone could link me a site or give me info on status of these country's in 1880: Russia, (Finland), Sweden, Danmark, Norway, Baltic countrys.

A new Konigstadt Conference thread to be started tomorrow, I believe. Just a few things.

1.) Don't put too much in the way of big events into a day. It's not a matter of restricting posts as it is keeping events flowing in a way that those of us who don't have computer access on demand can follow. Last time, a few people got lost.

2.) Wars and other non-diplomatic events should be put in seperate threads. It's okay for you to start them, just put (1880 Thread) and a link to this thread. And remember, it's not all about war. There's a lot more to it. But if you start a new thread, maybe give a heads-up if possible?

3.) NPC. Now, when I've done RPs in the past, I've handled ALL of those. But I don't think this is the way things work here. This is open to discussion, but tentatively, if it doesn't involve a Great Power country, don't worry about it. Due to British Hannover being associated with the British Empire, I'm claiming all NPC duties for it. Although maybe waiting before involving too many NPC's for a bit might be a good idea. You never know who's going to apply as some Russian splinter state or something.

Nope, not too late to join at all. And you're accepted to boot. Although I'd be careful about the textile industry, which IRL, would have a hard time competing with the enormous quantities of insanely cheap cloth produced by British factories at the time, not to mention all the other industrial powerhouses. But that's not saying that you can't have a textile industry by any means. And by Northern Arabia, I'm going to pretty much assume you mean Saudi Arabia in its modern borders.

No its not actually textile industry, its raw materials. At this time nearly all cotton in Britain was from the Middle East, Mesopotamia especiallu. When I say Northern Arabia, this means pretty much just the Northern half of present day Saudi, stretching across to the Red Sea. So the country as a whole is Northern Arabia, All of Iraq apart from the Northern (Kurdish) areas and modern Kuwait.

Thanks.

Estholad: IRL, Finland was a part of the Russian Empire, and Sweden-Norway were a state together. Perhaps Sweden-Norway (or the equivalent name of your state) participated in the Crimean War and won Finland? The Baltics were a part of Russia and Denmark was a small independent state. Unless someone enters as a Baltics nation as a PC, they are part of Russia in this RP.

United Alias: I thought Egypt and India were the biggest sources of cotton after the US Civil War, particularly Egypt.

Westminster Accord- Call it an appetizer
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=366815

Estholad: IRL, Finland was a part of the Russian Empire, and Sweden-Norway were a state together. Perhaps Sweden-Norway (or the equivalent name of your state) participated in the Crimean War and won Finland? The Baltics were a part of Russia and Denmark was a small independent state. Unless someone enters as a Baltics nation as a PC, they are part of Russia in this RP.

United Alias: I thought Egypt and India were the biggest sources of cotton after the US Civil War, particularly Egypt.

Westminster Accord- Call it an appetizer
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=366815

My understanding is that Indian cotton is rather poor quality and Egyptian cotton was actually grown in greater quantities in Mesopotamia. In any case much of Egypt's cotton industry was owned by businessmen in Baghdad, particulaly the Jewish minority which was about 6% of the city's population in those days.

United Elias- Point taken.

I think the major point is that Middle Eastern cotton, as well as Texas, CSA, and Indian cotton arrives in the UK, and to a lesser extent, the US, Belgium, France and Germany (Nordrreich in this instance) as raw goods and is shipped back out as finished goods.....

at least for now

of all of us, only Nordrreich is an industralized economy, the rest of us are at best barely in the industrial age or have relatively small industrial sectors unless British Hannover has something I don't realize....

British Hannover is in a good position to build up steel in a big way though (proximity to iron ore supplies and coal and water resources aplenty),

Osterlich is in a good position too, but doesnt have nearly the industrial development of Germany (Nordrreich) or France

Good point about industrialization.

British Hannover is industrializing, but at the moment, most of its economy is based around the export of wheat and timber, mostly, but a variety of other resources. However, in the relatively near future, it could become a significant industrial power.

Osterlich has industrial potential, but hasn't really succeeded in building a large industrial complex. There's some steel-making in the Czech portions, but most of the iron is going straight to Nordrreich. Whose industries are absolutely surging.

But you're absolutely right.

Texas has presented a proposal IC to British Hannover, with similar actions being taken (not on screen but at the same time) to the government of Sangro de Christo (Texas Ambassador Mark White) and to the Court of St James in London.... see the IC Westminister Accord IC thread

BTW-Im a MAJOR trading country on the African coast(you can see that on the world map thing.), all ALL goods from the Indian Ocean Eventually have too stop in my country due to the fact that it takes up the entire Eastern coast.

Of course, no one cares about me...

BTW-Im a MAJOR trading country on the African coast(you can see that on the world map thing.), all ALL goods from the Indian Ocean Eventually have too stop in my country due to the fact that it takes up the entire Eastern coast.

Of course, no one cares about me...

Well actually, no, the Suez Canal was opened in 1869, so you don't need to sail round Africa anymore.

BTW-Im a MAJOR trading country on the African coast(you can see that on the world map thing.), all ALL goods from the Indian Ocean Eventually have too stop in my country due to the fact that it takes up the entire Eastern coast.

Of course, no one cares about me...

well, not exactly, with most steamship trade funnelling throught the Suez and the Windjammers use the Roaring Forties (south of the Cape of Good Hope)...

but you do have some useful resources that are valuable, and have a couple of decent harbors that will make good ports with development and if you can work it out, have an edge over the British in dealing with the Boers (who don't like the English much) and they have lots of resources too

Your proximity to the Suez because you have Somalia is a big help to you, as the Horn of Africa is geopolitically important, but Aden is a better port and its in Arabia (and was a primary British base until the 1960s)

Your main worry is going to be the British, who are going to take action against the Pirates and East African slave trade unless you suppress it (which is why they ended up with Kenya for example in our time line)

The French may have already taken Madagascar (but I dont remember of hand, should really look that up) and that was a real pirate haven until then.

started another thread for the 1880 RP, this one (items of interest) is for general announcements in character.... it isn't really intended for anything more earthshaking than that but could be an ideal place to announce that your nation has just bought or built a spiffy new battleship or what have you.

Good show! :D

so what are the other big imperial powers doing? In this case, I am talking about Russia (who historically was conquering Central Asia in 1880s and pressuring China and Japan in the 1890s and 1900s), Japan which has the Meiji Restoration underway, Italy which historically got very embarrassed in Ethopia, Spain (still hanging on to Cuba etc?), France (which historically is moving in a big way on Africa and Indochina, plus the south Pacific), and Turkey which apparently has lost a great big chunk of its Middle East Empire.

And what is the Confederate States of America like after a race war.. did the Blacks win, did the Whites win or after a lot of bloodletting, was a compromise reached (I would suggest the compromise from the book, Guns of the South by Harry Turtledove)

What is California and the other western states like? Do the corporations (Union Pacific in our timeline) dominate, or has something better emerged or worse. And how does California feel about the Mormans and Sangre de Christo

How should we resolve this?

What is going on in Chile, Peru and Ecuador by the way, that affects one of us directly as well

OOC> Konigstadt Conference (IMPORTANT)
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=367452

Russia's up to expanding in Central Asia. Italy's probably up to embarrassing itself somewhere ... maybe not in Ethiopia due to a different geopolitical situation, but somewhere. Japan is going through the restoration, but isn't done yet. ((IRL, it didn't get any other territory until 1895)) Spain's stuggling to hang on to what it has. Turkey ... well, it's not really a great power. And it's more who wants to keep it alive and who doesn't, ie, the British want to maintain it, the Russians don't ... and Nordrreich hasn't quite made up its mind.

Would there necessarily be a race war? I'm not sure if slavery really would have lasted much longer anyway. If Robert E. Lee ever decided to run for office, he'd get in ... and he was anti-slavery. And the fact is, paid labour just worked better. Now, the old planters were pretty wedded to the idea, but what about their sons? Failing that, I'd imagine there would be a compromise of some sort, although I think the whites would win battles (although not necessarily be able to destroy a guerilla movement). It wasn't like ancient Sparta, in which only 10% of people weren't virtual slaves ... about a third of people were blacks, and not all slaves (although mostly).

I doubt ANYONE would like the Mormons, especially as I'm sure they'd continue with polygamy, not being able to be a state. My guess is that California would become the nucleus of a Pacific USA country. And corporations would probably be pretty dominant.

As for Latin America, I might have to check. Although the removal of a dominant USA might change some things there. It's okay to make a judgement call as long as it's not too radical. You seem to know your stuff pretty well.

I do hate to ask this oh-so-familiar question, but...Is it too late to join?

Nope. Just have to get your application accepted is all.

OOC> Konigstadt Conference (IMPORTANT)
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=367452
Would there necessarily be a race war? I'm not sure if slavery really would have lasted much longer anyway. If Robert E. Lee ever decided to run for office, he'd get in ... and he was anti-slavery. And the fact is, paid labour just worked better. Now, the old planters were pretty wedded to the idea, but what about their sons? Failing that, I'd imagine there would be a compromise of some sort, although I think the whites would win battles (although not necessarily be able to destroy a guerilla movement). It wasn't like ancient Sparta, in which only 10% of people weren't virtual slaves ... about a third of people were blacks, and not all slaves (although mostly).

I doubt ANYONE would like the Mormons, especially as I'm sure they'd continue with polygamy, not being able to be a state. My guess is that California would become the nucleus of a Pacific USA country. And corporations would probably be pretty dominant.

As for Latin America, I might have to check. Although the removal of a dominant USA might change some things there. It's okay to make a judgement call as long as it's not too radical. You seem to know your stuff pretty well.

my read on the situation is that by 1864, there are sizeable numbers of Black troops, and the entire Mississippi River valley has been seized, as has much of Tennessee (before the Yankees are driven back in my little model)...that and the Emancipation Proclamation, and anti Black feelings in the North (its their fault school of thought triggered the 1863 riots in New York, and my timeline has them getting worse, plus labor troubles)

the Blacks aren't going to tamely submit to a return to slavery and aren't going to be real happy about Jim Crow either. Hence my theory on a race war... the model I am suggesting is from the book, Guns of the South, and basically, the Rebs have to cut a deal, phase out slavery, and reimburse slaveholders (maybe the British would have helped, they hate slavery) but also would have put down insurrection along the Carolina and Georgia coasts and in the Mississippi Valley where sizeable numbers of black soldiers refused to go back to the US when the war ended.

Sadly, RE Lee died of a heart attack in 1869 so even though he would have won the 1866 election in the CSA, his successor may or may not have been able to keep a lid on things

Yeah, I can't imagine anybody likes the Mormons much, but they are pretty isolated in Utah and out of sight, out of mind is probably most peoples policy... only the US in Colorado and the Californians (in Nevada) really have to deal with them

EDIT: I did not see already see someone had claimed Austria-Hungary.

some of our countries haven't checked in for a while... hopefully they will this weekend?

Application for 1880 RP: (INDEPENDENT NATION )
Name of Country: The Republic of Royer
Head of State: President Armand Legrand
Head of Government: Prime Minister Claude Pierresmonte
Form of Government: Democratic republic with universal sufferage for citizens.
Geographical Location: French Republic

Capital of Country: Paris
Population of Country: 35 million
Official Languages: French
Ethnicity of Country: French 92%, English 5%, German 2%, Other 1%
Religion of Country: Roman Catholic 90%, Protestant 6%, Jewish 3%, Other 1%

Culture of Country: French, with a large Romanticist movement.

Stability of Country: Following the fall of the Second Empire, and the installation of the Republic, the government is constantly changing due to an influx of new freedoms and liberties. Prime Minister Pierresmonte is looking to instill some order in the nation, while maintaining the freedoms his countrymen have been accustomed to.

Economy of Country: Royer has a base of agriculture, such as wheat, beef, fruit, and vegetables, and developed industry. Economic activities are starting to wind up again following a sluggish period after the Second Empire.

Land Military of Country: Royer now has a standing army of 100,000 men, equipped with breech-loading rifles and some machine guns. The heart of the army lies in the commanders, schooled by their highly-experinced seniors, who are also accepting the new theories of warfare.

Navy of Country: The core of the Republic's navy consists of 5 battleships and 20 mediocre cruisers. Some of the more innovative minds in the navy have obtained funds to experiment with a 'torpedo' boat.

Royer- Accepted. Just remember, Alsace-Lorraine is Nordrreich territory at this time. And the other thing is ... you're being a bit too modest. I don't know if it's deliberate or not, but France had a decent industrial infrastructure (although not a huge one like Britain or Nordrreich) and a population of about 35 million on the dot. But if it's deliberate, that's okay. Just wanted you to know ... not often any RP applicant gets THAT comment.

Oh, thank you. No, I will take what advantage I can get, heh. Is Alsace-Lorraine you control now the size of modern Alsace-Lorraine?

And as for the Koingstadt Conference-Can I assume my delegate is to attend?

Your delegate will be attending the Konigstadt Conference, yes. And it consists of all of Alsace and about half of Lorraine, I believe. At the time, about 1.8 million people lived there. The largest city of that region was Strasbourg, called Strassburg by the Germans.

Well i am hanging out here too. Just been reading these thread's since my Imperium doesn't have enough influence to flex it's muscles in Americas.

And been kinda busy too.

Royer...

your army seems way too small. Even when it had an all volunteer Army, the French mustered about 250,000 troops for the Franco-Prussian War not counting reservists.

In OTL, at this time, the French had occupied Algeria and Tunisia, were moving on Indochina, and occupied portions of the South Pacific (including Tahiti)...

I would recommend that even a demilitarized France would keep about 100,000 troops under arms, even without the colonies, simply as a nucleous for a wartime army should it be needed (and 100,000 men is pretty small for a nation your size).

By the way, the French have excellent rifles and a version of the gatling gun that is pretty good.

The French also had a strong guerilla tradition that they used to some effect against the Prussians. Of course, you could justify your microscopic army because of the slaughter the Army committed reducing the Paris Commune, in which case those 10,000 men are probably just the cadre for the various reserve units (quartermasters, some staff, a few guards to watch the arsenals, that kind of thing).

The French at this time were building decent cruisers, magnificently inefficient battleships but where experimenting with torpedo boats (steam powered ships about 450 tons that carried the Whitehead torpedo fired from tubes).

Not a bad navy, just not a big one and not in the class of the RN (but nobody else was either)

Thank you. I complient you both on your knowledge(or, my lack thereof) and help!

I have some figures, according to Encyclopedia Brittanica (1875), the French Active Army has 18 Corps D'Armee, each corps is composed of two divisions of infantry, a brigade of cavalry a brigade of artilllery and a battalion of engineers for a total strength of 30-40,000 men depending on the corps. In total the Active Army has a strength (in both peace and war) of 705,000.
In addition there are 510,000 Reserve soldiers which are an attrition reserve for the Main Army. In another breakdown the Army has 496 infantry battalions, 380 cavalry squadrons and 158 Batteries of Artillery.

The Territorial Army which is apparently very rarely called upon is organised into cadre units for a total strength of 582,000 but there is also an additional reserve for this which is 1,208,000.

In other words your army is several times the size of the British Army of 1875 which, including all reserves and auxiliaries would have a strength of 670,000.
This makes it larger than any other Army in the world at the time, with the German Empire at 1,250,000 and the Russians 1,300,000 being the closest.

Most of the figures I've seen show the French army roughly matching the German one, at about half a million or so, at least on the continent. I must admit I find it a bit of a stretch that France's army was larger than Germany's or Russia's, both of which had larger populations (and growing, while France was pretty much stagnant) and Germany having a superior economy. The French population was about 35 million, and the German nearly 50 million by this time.

I find the figures ot be a little odd as well, but they do come from a reputable source.

The French figures are accurate. The problem that developed was that the German population expanded faster than the French, so by World War I the Germans still outnumbered the French on the Western Front with adequate forces for other fronts, while the French were forced to demobilize some units as critical workers for war industries were conscripted too and they were needed at home.

In other words, the French with their reserves called up had a bigger army than they could actually support.

Now this is a more pacificist France, so the reserves are probably much smaller (figure half maybe) and the hold the French General Staff had over political events (such as the Dreyfus Affair) would probably be considerably diminished. This France doesn't seem to have the Revanchist spirit that OTL France has, which means that the disastrous Plan 17 will probably be scrapped before it is ever carried out.

I can see a lot more border fortresses being built though (a 19th Century version of the Maginot Line probably). French fortresses did pretty good in World War I, although not as good as they expected. This was because the Germans planned extremely well assault operations against Fortresses (Leige, the most powerful fortress in Europe held only a few days against the Germans in World War I)

Edit: Changed the Head of State to the President.

Okay. It's a reputable source, but yeah, you're right about France's population. Which was pretty much stagnant during the whole period. By this time, it was about fifty versus just over thirty-five or so. By 1914, it was sixty-five versus forty. And the Germans were also very good at staffwork, so they could collect their armies extremely rapidly.

ooc
I (by the way, this is also Galveston Bay, one of my clones) learned that in 1880, the First Boer War breaks out in South Africa (I found that when I was looking for good artillery for Texas to buy). Now it seems to me an ideal time for Lightning Strike to make a move to get the Boers on their side, for Nordrreich to interfere and the British to either get embarrassed or possibly up the ante and bring in Dominion troops (British Hannover, Australia etc)

anybody know if Sangro De Christo is coming back? He shows inactive for 6 days.

Are applications still accepted, i was thinking of doing Mexico? These confrences do last a while dont they?

Are applications still accepted, i was thinking of doing Mexico? These confrences do last a while dont they?

How about Brazil or Argentina.... both have good military forces (after getting a hell of workout against Paraguay), large populations (relatively speaking) lots of resources etc

or the Confederacy, California or USA (USA split up by Civil War, read Galveston Bays application for history)

But we really, really need a Russia or Japan in my opinion

Before you decide on Mexico, you should look at Sangro De Christo and its map....he has a good chunk of Mexico already

Question; who has the updated map?

I could try Russia, i do know some russian history, but i dont have any experience with late 19th century warfare, and since that seems to be where this is headed that might be a problem.

I should be able to get you one. :D

Im with Tellecar, i would like to see the map and i dont know where to find it email is felixdragon@aol.com if you need it.

I could try Russia, i do know some russian history, but i dont have any experience with late 19th century warfare, and since that seems to be where this is headed that might be a problem.

If you saw the movie Glory, or any movie showing World War I trench warfare, or for that matter, if you saw the movies Zulu or more recently, Four Feathers, you should be able to visualize it.

1880s warfare would have been a lot like World War I, except fewer machine guns, lighter artillery, no aircraft or tanks, and no chemical weapons and a bloody slaughter on any battlefield. Only the North Americans, the Germans and French have any idea just how bad it is (has all three have fought wars recently), although the British and Turks and Russians have some inkling.

At the start of World War 1, most of the European powers had no idea how bad it would be (1914 is a long time from 1870 Franco Prussian War) and were appalled after a year of bloodletting, but kept on.

A general war at this point would be more like World War I than the Franco Prussian War because now both France and Germany have huge armies and the front is still the same size. Deadlock unless someone wins quick.

At sea, now we can have some fun. No submarines (at least useful submarines), no aircraft, no contact mines.... the surface ships are the weapon of decision... lots of fun to be had.

too bad I don't have any though :(

Alright guys take it easy..... (referring to the whole Pirate thing)

For the sake of the setting (and because its too late to change it) I will accept a cable from Cairo to Aden and then across the Med to Europe (although I think that was later). In OTL, the British have just recently occupied Egypt (1876) and I don't think the cable has really been laid yet, but lets go with it.

Lightning Star, don't confuse IC posts for condemnation of you personally please, its correct (remember the Europeans are an arrogant lot and in their view Lightning Star is a bunch of wogs)

British Hannover and everyone else, it is certainly reasonable that Lightning Star would try for Aden, after all, the Africans already know how wicked the Europeans are (remember the slave trade has ended relatively recently) and wars like this did happen ( the Zulu War happened in 1879, and the British suffered a rather embarrassing defeat early on in it)

In Sudan, the Mahdi has showed up and is already embarrassing Egyptian troops under British leadership.

So I am ok with Lightning Star attacking Aden. But remember Lightning Star, the British are certainly going to hit back. Pretty damn hard too and they have a lot of troops in South Africa already who just beat up the Zulus.

check out this thread for some conflicts in the 19th century
http://www.sirgarnet.com/19thCenturyWars.html

I think the war should go on, and I don't believe that Lightning Star would know yet how bad things went in Europe, as there is no cable linking Europe to South Africa yet (much later, I think about 1895). But then neither do the British in South Africa or anybody else yet.

Alright guys take it easy..... (referring to the whole Pirate thing)

For the sake of the setting (and because its too late to change it) I will accept a cable from Cairo to Aden and then across the Med to Europe (although I think that was later). In OTL, the British have just recently occupied Egypt (1876) and I don't think the cable has really been laid yet, but lets go with it.

Lightning Star, don't confuse IC posts for condemnation of you personally please, its correct (remember the Europeans are an arrogant lot and in their view Lightning Star is a bunch of wogs)

British Hannover and everyone else, it is certainly reasonable that Lightning Star would try for Aden, after all, the Africans already know how wicked the Europeans are (remember the slave trade has ended relatively recently) and wars like this did happen ( the Zulu War happened in 1879, and the British suffered a rather embarrassing defeat early on in it)

In Sudan, the Mahdi has showed up and is already embarrassing Egyptian troops under British leadership.

So I am ok with Lightning Star attacking Aden. But remember Lightning Star, the British are certainly going to hit back. Pretty damn hard too and they have a lot of troops in South Africa already who just beat up the Zulus.

check out this thread for some conflicts in the 19th century
http://www.sirgarnet.com/19thCenturyWars.html

I think the war should go on, and I don't believe that Lightning Star would know yet how bad things went in Europe, as there is no cable linking Europe to South Africa yet (much later, I think about 1895). But then neither do the British in South Africa or anybody else yet.


Actually, i made a cable conecting them both..

its vital to the...plans i have. Not to mention, if theres a cable to Egypt, and Egypt is just a stonethrow away from South Ethiopia(which is mine), i find it totally plausible.

Actually, i made a cable conecting them both..

its vital to the...plans i have. Not to mention, if theres a cable to Egypt, and Egypt is just a stonethrow away from South Ethiopia(which is mine), i find it totally plausible.

I can live with that, its not too far across the Red Sea to Aden

Country Name: Russian Empire
Head Of State: Alexander Romanov II
Head of Government: Alexis Sergetov
Capital: Moscow

Pop: 95million
Languages: Russian(official), German, Turkish
Ethnicity: Russian 80%, Polish/German 8%, Turkish 7%, other 5%
Religion: Eastern Orthodox is practiced mainly by the russians, Roman Catholicism by the Poles, and the turks practice Islam.

Culture: depends on region it is an empire and given the communication of the time period the culture depends on the ethnicity of the locality.
Stability: fairly stable government since Alexander I instituted the republican reforms (what he should have done IRL) and granted the Dumas power and gave control of the government to the prime minister. The Czar still retains considerable influence in the government however.
Economy: until very recently it had a crapola agricultural economy, now the government has instituted reforms and brought in foreign engineers and investors to industiralize the country. Industrialization is growing exponentially each year as is the rail system.

Military: really really big, i cant find concrete numbers but they were able to field 100,000 soldiers against the Ottomans at Plevna in 1877. The military is currently being modernized and reformed by increasing the professionalism of the officer corps and eventually the line infantry. In the event of an invasion massive numbers can be conscripted and expected to fight and use a scorched earth strategy. However it is still quite weak. The navy is fairly powerful and warship production is growing. The russian have acces to the whitehead torpedo and had relative sucess with it in the Russo-Turkish wars. By the late 1890s the russian navy was the 3rd most powerful in europe so i think i have a basis for growth.

Aims/Goals: Retake Finland from Estholad, Expand into the Anatolian peninsula, expand into eastern europe, basically anything that touches the russian border is a possible target. Overseas colonies are possible but unlikely to be persued.

Other: As I mentione above Alexander I institued the Republican Reforms in the 1830s under pressure from radical revolutionaries and an incresingly discontent population. This also freed the serfs (about 30 years early), who were not required to pay the government for their land thus avoiding economic stagnation. The government is based on the British parliment but is effectively controled by the upper house of appointed landowners and newly rich industiralists. The govenment is still conservative because the majority of the upper house is still nobility. The Czar is progressive and appoints industiralists whenever a spot opens in the upper house. Both houses of parliment are slated to be elected begining in 1890 (In case this seems incoherent; the Czar decided to phase out the nobility by providing a 50 years period of having only the lower house being elected but giving the upper house real power, so right now the elected house is really an advisory comittee).
Colonies: Sold Alaska to the US in 1848 so other than a few territorial claims to some islands Russia has no colonies.

What time zones are you guys in, im in Texas so its CST here. i think thats like -5 hrs from GMT

::Sincerely hopes he is accepted:: i am now going to cross my fingers while saying 25 hail marys and simulanteously wearing a tunic made entirely of four-leaf clovers

I'm in Central.

*looks at application* Okay.

Just a few notes. You're right about industrialization growing, but at the time, Russia was still very backwards. Secondly, although you can change this, of course, your country is in the Two Emperor's Pact with Germany (Nordrreich). It's actually a logical alliance for both, despite history.

looks good to me too.... I am in CA, so about 2 hours behind you ....

I agree with the German Russian Pact, in addition, US Russian relations where very good during the US Civil War, and would most likely have continued to be..... most likely if Russia sold Alaska to the US, then California ended up with it (principal port of entry to Alaska is Sitka via Seattle) although total population is probably about the 40,000 range as it was historically, plus the Native Americans that are there (about half a million perhaps, although numbers are hard to be certain as the Russians were really hard on the Aleuts)

Given the situation in the Americas, I think a German-US-Russian three-way alliance is rather likely. On the other side, Britain, France and various small states are becoming quite cosy, with Japan likely to join them as well.

Your probaly right about me being a little too ahead in the industrialization, ill tone it down some more i just see the historical russia as a complete dead-end with an absolutley useless military and no domestic production, so i took a few liberties. If there can be a divided US ill be having a democratic Russia. I will tone down the industrialization, besides my whole point there was thats its growing and has potential to be great soon. That could be a cause of concern for the other europeans since european peace rested on evryone ganging up on someone if they got too powerful and a modernized united russia would be nearly impossible to beat.

What is the two emperors pact, and is there anything i should know about Russia i may have missed in the thread?

You're right about the industrialization and the nature of great power politics. But modernizing Russia is a long, difficult proposition. Remember that in the USSR, it took Stalin's entire reign (30 years) and millions of lives to do it. A modernized industrial Russia WOULD be immensely powerful. And yes, Russia's industry would be growing and rapidly at that but it takes a lot of time to modernize the infrastructure. It's not exactly an easy country to connect.

The Two Emperor's Pact is basically an alliance between Germany (Nordrreich) and Russia, particularly a mutual defence treaty. IRL, it was the Three Emperor's Pact, w/Austria-Hungary, but there is no Austria-Hungary. Just Osterlich (Austria and Czech Republic) and various smaller countries. Which also makes it easier for Germany and Russia to see eye to eye than IRL.

Note, also, Russia and Britain have a lot of tension during this period, especially over Russian expansion in Central Asia. Btw, your borders are presumably essentially those of the IRL Soviet Union, with about half of modern Poland as well.

Turkey has splintered... possibly opening the way for the historic Russian desire for Constantople.... the Balkens are represented in the game, you don't have Finland (its part of a Greater Sweden) ... lots of potential for conflict for you

I can live with a more democratic Russia, the right Czar would have made a tremendous difference and possibly prevented much tragedy in the 20th Century

Galveston Bay: Very much so.

Maybe (not tonight though, I'm going to be soon), we should discuss this somehow? Do you have AIM or Messenger? Because I'm in the situation of being both Britain and Nordrreich (Germany), we might have some things to talk over. Especially considering that as things stood IRL, and probably in this RP too, I'm both your biggest ally and enemy, heh. Specifically, perhaps a plan for the eventual (oh so evil) division of the East? Germany has big interests in Central/East Europe and the Middle East. But we're friends right now and can probably work something out.

A more democratic Russia makes sense, actually, if the tsars were a little more competent. And it's nicer to think about too. Poor Russians deserve some happiness.

I have AIM my screen name is FelixDragon (also an AOL email). I should be on around 5 tomorrow; i have school then a doctors appointment, so if you come up with any brillant devious schemes before then you can email them to me. I have to go now but i look foward to getting invovled in this.

P.S. Who has scandanavia, i saw an application for a country there but i cant remember seeing any posts.

I have yahoo instant messenger, because for some reason AIM crashes my computer routinely and I got sick of messing with it...

anthryax@yahoo.com

Does anyone have a map?

Phonesia:
I'm on AIM, Deutsche Devil. And I'm making a new map, the old one is not really sufficient. As for Estholad (Fennoscandia) and Sangre de Christo (nation of the same name), they seem to be MIA. Estholad mentioned something about being really busy, and Sangre has just sort of vanished.

Does anyone have a map?

'tis on the second or third page, m'boy!

I have soccer from 7-9 so ill be back around 9.

I know it seems like I'm butting in, but I've been following your thread for a while because I want to join, but I don't know if i'll have a lot of time to participate and I don't want to join if I'm not going to be able to continue.

Anywho, for a pretty decent map I found this website: http://www.freewebs.com/novgova/1914wrld.gif (http://www.freewebs.com/novgova)

It's a 1914 Europe map, but from 1880 to 1914 nothing much happened in terms of major, earth-shattering border differences that didn't already happen (yes yes I know, the Boer War blah blah blah)

It should only take 2 seconds to go into paint and paint in the countries taken.
(Oh BTW for creditting where it is due, it should be known that the map was not made by me but a guy named Matthew White. I only uncolored in the countries.)

at some point I will need to interact with Mexico, the USA, California and Dixie (so much easier to say than the Confederacy).... so how do we handle that?

I need Sangro back, if not, I am going to start stirring up trouble so I can build that railroad (assuming he doesnt come back, willing to give him a while longer)

At what point to we give up on him?

Incidently, I suspect at some point the USA will take over the northern Plains and move into Idaho and Montana or California will (nature and nations abhor a vacuem) and technically these still belong to the USA. Somebody is bound to extend a railroad from Colorado west, and will have to make a deal with the Mormons (or beat them up).

I am waiting for 1900 though, when I strike oil! and Texas becomes rich, rich, rich... by the way, the USA doesn't have any oil... that should be interesting

If we don't get more RPer's really soon, maybe some of you guys can take a second nation? It's not unheard of around here.

The USA does have some oil in Pennsylvania

Okay, this is how it goes. We have a few glaring holes in our nation roster. So, I'm going to let you other people take another nation if you want. Just one thing.

1.) If you're playing a Great Power (Halibris, Phonesia), don't take another Great Power. That means, don't play as Japan, USA or China.

Taken 2nd Nations:
CSA- Interested friend of mine
Japan- Tellacar

I will take California or USA (this is Galveston Bay alias New Shiron) but I think Texas should also have USA, and CSA should also have California (that way we can rp a war if it comes to that)

Willing to take Greece as well (just think of all the trouble we can cause in the Balkans with both Turkey and Greece and Italy wanting Cyprus) or I can take Italy (who will do something suitably incompetent or something rational like invading Libya eventually

Personally hoping the thread moves forward in time, 1890s nations develop some better ships, better military weapons, and a few other toys

OOOOH OOOOHHH!!!

Ill take Columbia!(which then consisted of Panama, Columbia, and Venezuela i believe...there may be more or less.)

Well, right now, probably just taking another one would be best, but I think the USA is the single most needed one. I'm still hoping to maybe pick up some others along the way. And get Sangre/Estholad back.

Well, right now, probably just taking another one would be best, but I think the USA is the single most needed one. I'm still hoping to maybe pick up some others along the way. And get Sangre/Estholad back.

Did you even SEE my post?

You must've posted it while I was writing the other one. Columbia is fine, and yes, it was exactly Columbia, Panama and Venezuela.

You must've posted it while I was writing the other one. Columbia is fine, and yes, it was exactly Columbia, Panama and Venezuela.

Heh heh heh heh heh....suckers....

I mean, uh, can i start posting as that nation now?

Yes, although you should also put in a formal application.

Yes, although you should also put in a formal application.

Mmmmkay.

Application for 1880 RP: Great Power
Name of Country: El Imperio Colombiano del Cangrejo
Head of State: Emperador Martin Torrijos
Head of Government: Primer Ministro Raul Ramirez
Form of Government: Constitutional Empire
Capital: Bogota, Provincia de Colombia

Population of Country: 37.9 million
Official Language: Spanish
Ethnicity of Country: 47% Mestizo(mix of both Native American and European)37% Native American, 26% European Decent,
Religion of Country: 100% Catholic

Culture of Country: Latino Culture, a mix of Spanish traditions mixed with local ones as well.

Stability of Country: Fairly Un-stable. Provinica de Venezuela and Provincia de Panama are usually trying to ain independence. Relatively high poverty in those provinces make them breeding grounds for rebellion. Army deployed to areas to quell rebellion many times.

Economy of Country: Moderate. The main Provincia de Colombia is very wealthy with low poverty rates, but this is countered by alot of poverty and low-income in the other two provinces, with Panama being in the worst condition.

Land Military of Country: 200,000 soldiers total. Used to intimidate the neighboring countries as well as quell internal rebellion. Armed with almost-modern(1870-era) weapons and moderatly well trained, this army is good, but not the best.

Navy of Country: 39 Tiburón Class Armored Battleship(the ship is similar to a California-class, just a shorter wit thicker armor) , as well as 62 regular wooden frigates.

Other Information: Gained Independence from Spain in 1821, the Columbian Nation origionally was baisically all of the Latin American Nations except for Mexico and Brazil. However, most of the nations left. By 1880, the nation consits of only three Provinces/nations, Panama, Columbia, and Venezuela. Venezuela is very close to declaring independence.

Colony: Honduras Colombina (Modern-day Belize). Population: 4,172,284. Colonial Capital: Belmopan. Governor: Manuel Torrijos(the younger brother of the Emperor). Military forces deployed there: The 17,000 soldiers of the Colonial Forces.

Well, right now, probably just taking another one would be best, but I think the USA is the single most needed one. I'm still hoping to maybe pick up some others along the way. And get Sangre/Estholad back.

who is that directed to? And did you have preference on who you wanted me to take on?

Galveston Bay:

`Twas to you. Lighting Star made his post while I was writing that, so I didn't see it. The USA is probably our most critical gap right now, but it's really up to you.

(alias Galveston Bay here)

I will work up an application for the US, with a short history of events 1864 - 1880, this weekend sometime .. possibly late tonight but probably tomorrow

Application for 1880 RP: Independent Nation
Name of Country: Imperial County of Hizashi
Head of State: Emperor Meiji
Head of Government: Genro Sezume Tenjou
Form of Government: Monarchy
Capital: Tokyo

Population of Country: 35 million

Official Language: Japanese; other widely spoken languages are Dutch and English.
Ethnicity of Country: Mostly Japanese, some Ainu and other minorities.
Religion of Country: Confucianism and Shinto are the most popular forms of worship. Emeperor Meiji has recently allowed freedom of religion among his people.

Culture of Country: The government is currently modernizing the country, though trying to retain a national sense of identity and to become knowledgeable with the outside world. There are conflicts among the people by trying to adept more Western ways of culture.

Stability of Country: Invigorating and strengthening. The Meiji government has taken steps to abolish feudalism as a form of government. Clan governments were dismissed and the Central Government divided Japan into prefectures and samurai and daimyos have been integrated into the common class. There is no longer any governmental class distinctions and National unity has grown stronger, making Hizash in a position to modernize.

Economy of Country: Well enough. The forcible reopening of Hizash by the USA has given the country negative and positive qualities. They were in an unfair trade position with western countries, though Hizashians have developed considerable strategic industries. They’re taking these lessons and what Hizashians abroad are learning with stride, making consumer good by Hizash and this has created employment opportunities for all and balanced exports and imports. This has been mostly government initiative though as consumer good industries are on the rise, so have the private interest in industrialization. Hizash trades currently with USA, England, and Nodrreich though there are waning interests on the behalf of the Hizashians.

Land Military of Country: Growing. Ten years ago there was no national army though now there is an Imperial Guard and national army. The army has been introduced to the spirit of bushido and the Admonition to soldiers, however the army has been based after Nordrriech’s army. Currently there is some opposition to this army by some leaders in Hizash over a need for a constitutional government due the conscription of common people and peasants for the new army. Currently there are about 78,000 thousand men. (*kidding* And in desperate need, we can unleash Godizilla! :D)

Navy of Country: Based after the English Navy, though the Hizash are sea faring people and have adapted to the navy with little problems. Currently they have 15 ships and more in the making.

Other Information: Hizashian students are all over the world now, learning from other countries and returning to Hizash. They reason that modernization is the only way to protect themselves from western powers. Hizash has reorganized treaties that allow said students to learn from countries they trade with and have brought in teachers from the West.

It’s pretty much Japan, but a bit less sexist because I’m a girl and I can’t roleplay men too well.

Accepted. :D

Yay!

Notes:

I do excepct racism and sexism. It is 1880, not 1980. I will not be offended if folks resort to that.

Application
United States of American (New Shiron / Galveston Bay player country)

Based on an alternate history where the Union was permanently divided after Longstreet wins the battles of Chickamauga and Chattanooga, and retakes Tennessee leading to the defeat of Lincoln in the 1864 election and successful secession of the Confederacy. See below for details

1864 Defeat in battle and the election forces Lincoln to accept the secession. The 1863 Riots that occurred in New York spread to other cities, forcing the Union to pull substantial numbers of troops from the lines to keep order. Rioting continued in waves into 1865.

January 3, 1865 Treaty of Hampton Roads signed between the United States and the Confederate States (celebrated ever after in the South and mourned in the North as Independence Day (in Dixie) and Memorial Day (in the North).

1865 President McClellan takes office and orders troops to brutally put down riots and strikes in the Northeast and Midwest. However, in August 1865, an embittered Abolitionist kills the President and Vice President, and many cabinet members when he enters the White House with a bomb and detonates it just outside the Cabinet Room. The Speaker of the House, Schuyler Colfax, takes over as interim President but orders a special Presidential Election to coincide with the 1866 Presidential Election.

Meanwhile, the State Governors are given control of their state troops, many of whom remain mobilized and angry about the peace treaty with the South, and riots are ruthlessly put down throughout the North. However, the failure to build a transcontinental railroad leads to the secession of the states of California, Oregon, Nevada, and Washington (forming the Pacific Republic), and shortly after, the Mormons declare their independence in Utah, creating the nation of Deseret. Along with the CSA, Sangro de Christo (a leftover from the breakup of Mexico in the 1820s and 1830s), Texas and British Hannover (Britain’s colonial dominion to the north), North America is split into 7 nations. Manifest Destiny is clearly dead.

1866 The Election is the most important election in American history to date as nothing less than the continued viability of the Constitution is at stake. In addition to congressional races, the 13th and 14th Amendments are on state ballots as well. Winfield Scott Hancock, hero of Gettysburg, is the Democratic Party’s nominee and his war record and good sense sees him win the election handily.

Hancock refuses to intervene while the South is having its own difficulties, and this restraint leads to a gradual improvement of relations between North and South, and good relations with Texas. His personal request to attend the funeral of Robert E. Lee is also a major step in repairing ties between North and South and does much to heal some of the rifts between the two counties. He gradually builds a consensus amongst the remaining states and peoples of the Union (which among other things, leads to the 15th Amendment clarifying that secession was not allowed).

1866 – 1868 Hancock and Congress agree to hold another Presidential election in 1868, and once again Hancock wins. He goes on to serve another term before his wounds and fading health acquired from the Civil War cause him to refuse the nomination in 1876.

The Union ends slavery and establishes citizenship for all native born Americans with the 13th and 14th Amendments, but financial problems force the country to spend much of the immediate Post War period recovering from the costs of that war. Strikes are a serious problem at times as well, but Hancock’s supporters in New York City and Chicago persuade him to take a neutral stance unless insurrection is threatened and gradually the Democratic Party is seen as the party of the working man, while the Republican Party is seen as the party of the farmer and white collar worker.

Hancock also manages to negotiate a deal with the Pacific Republic that gives the Pacific Republic Idaho and Montana, while the US retains control of the remaining territories acquired in the Louisiana Purchase (the Dakotas, Wyoming). Interest in the Transcontinental Railroad remains, but other issues are deemed more important and the railroads stretch through Kansas to Colorado, but go no further. His final act in office is to set aside the entire Dakota Territory (including Wyoming) as a replacement for the old Indian Territory, and although it remains under US jurisdiction, only official US government personnel are allowed routine access (this has the side benefit of providing a buffer between the Pacific Republic and the US, along with Deseret and Sangro de Christo).

The only notable foreign policy items during this period is the Colfax Administrations demands to France that it pull out of Mexico (which France quickly does), and the Hancock Administrations decision to continue an active US Navy presence in the Pacific Ocean (to protect American shipping). In general, the US is notably isolationist during this period but it remains a Mecca for immigrants, a trend that will continue. Only Texas and California draw even a tenth of the numbers that flood to the US. The US also hosts a Worlds Fair in 1876, in New York City, and among the important structures that are left behind is the Statue of Liberty, a gift from France.

1876 – 1880
Samuel Tilden, Democrat and Hancock’s Vice President, is elected President in 1876, and he continues to focus on US internal affairs. However, Indian intertribal warfare and the discovery of gold in the Black Hills of Dakota lead to the decision to revoke the Indian Treaties, and leads to a bitter war between the Indians and US Army that by 1879, leads to the crushing of all of the tribes and the establishment of reservations. It also leads to the construction of a rail line to Cheyenne (Wyoming) and closer relations with Texas which is fighting an Indian War as well.

In foreign affairs, the loss of 3 American warships wrecked in a typhoon off Samoa leads to demands that the US rebuild its elderly navy. By 1878, the construction of the first warships to entirely due away with sail and to be equipped with modern breech loading cannon has begun, with the first ships, the cruisers “Brooklyn”, “Chicago” and “Denver” mark the beginnings of a new and modern US Navy, equal in efficiency if not size to the Royal Navy.

Tilden is also very interested in Liberia, an American backed nation created on the African West Coast, and during the period when substantial Blacks are still having difficulties gaining acceptance in the North, manages to get money and congressional authorization to assist nearly 200,000 Blacks from the US and Texas (many are freed slaves) in emigrating there, and a US base is established as well in order to deal with slavers and protect the small nation from European encroachment.

In 1880, Tilden runs again but corruption scandals and the Panic of 1879 (when the US economy takes a sharp dip leading to serious unemployment and a banking crisis) leaves him struggling against a dynamic James Blaine, who defeats him in November 1880.

Yay!

Notes:

I do excepct racism and sexism. It is 1880, not 1980. I will not be offended if folks resort to that.

nice job.... should I send Tom Cruise over to train your troops? it made such a fun movie after all (just kidding of course)

seriously though, the US would probably continue to work on having good relations with the Japanese, although you probably don't like the Pacific Republic much (anti Asian feelings and downright really nasty exclusion laws were the standard fare for the West Coast states until after World War II and sometimes later even)

Crisis In Osterlich- http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=366494

Galveston Bay: You've got the US, and sounds like a good history. Just need the basic data. But feel free to post.

Formal application
United States of America (Galveston Bay/ New Shiron player)
Head of Government and State: President Samuel Tilden (until 1881), then President James Blaine
Capital: Washington DC
Largest cities: New York City, Chicago, Kansas City, St Louis, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Boston
Consists of the states of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Delaware, West Virginia, Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Missouri, Minnesota, Kansas, Nebraska, Colorado, plus the territories of Wyoming and Dakota

Culture: US Northeastern and Midwestern, with frontier culture west of the Mississippi

Economy: The US is an economic and industrial powerhouse, rapidly approaching the British and Germans in importance and surpassing even France now in industrial capacity. The US is also rich in resources, especially iron ore, coal and food stuffs.

Population: (actual 1880 census) 40 Million (and growing fast because of immigration). (includes adjustments for not having the other missing states)

Official Language: none, but English the de facto official language but just about every language in Europe is spoken in the US, especially in the big Eastern cities.

Stability: After a period of uncertainty and a nasty civil war, the US has managed to retain its constitution and bill of rights and remains a stable nation, more so now that sectionalism is a dead issue.

Military Forces: One of the issues that led to serious instability was conscription and it has essentially been rejected. The US Army has been reduced in size to only 25,000 men, but the Navy is sizeable, with 100 warships of various types. The States have very sizeable National Guards (state militia) and most of these have sizeable numbers of veterans from the Civil War. The Army and Navy are equipped with modern weapons, with the Springfield Rifle (rechambered as a breechloader), Winchester Repeater (carbine) and Colt 45 being the principal weapons. The US has a number of forts along the border with the Confederacy, but these are generally manned by the National Guard. Most of the Army is either on the frontier, or manning coastal defenses near the major Eastern Cities or on the Great Lakes.

During the Civil War, the North mobilized 1 Million troops, and could easily do so again if required.

Other information: The two major parties, the Democrats and Republicans are fairly moderate in their views, but there is a sizeable Populist Party (pro labor and pro small farmer) on the Left, and a sizeable Union Party (wants to reconquer the South, Texas, California, Utah and also annex Sangro De Christo and even British Hannover) on the far Right.

Concerning the crisis in Osterlich-would France have received any word of it by now? I'm not quite sure telegraph's speed, or if any word would even be allowed out of the country.

Good point. Osterlich would probably want France in particular to know of what's going on. I think that in terms of telegraph speed, events in Europe would be known pretty quickly in the capitals. Vienna would probably learn of these developments the next day and Paris probably later that day. So you could post tonight safely.

The US is going to be hard to woo into a military alliance with anyone, as the words of George Washington "Avoid entangling alliances" were American policy until pretty much World War II. Even in World War I, Wilson considered the US more a co-bellegerent than a member of the Allied Powers.

The US definitely won't adopt German style conscription or even willingly adopt conscription unless it gets in a shooting war, and sadly (for me getting into the action in Europe) the US isnt' going to get into a war because of some problem in Central Europe.

However, the US is a trading nation, second behind Britain only in the 19th Century, even after substantial shipping losses in the Civil War. Without the West, it is going to be even more that way, and will move aggressively (commercially) into Latin America and China (Open Door Policy begins about this time period). Unless California, Texas and Dixie industralize heavily somehow (and capital is a real problem for them), they are going to end up being commercial colonies of the US even though they remain politically independent. The US will stay the hell out of Africa though, other than Liberia, but Asia and the Pacific are different matters. The US might even fight to get some islands in the Pacific should it see the need (and Mahan is writing his book about now, "The Influence of Seapower upon History".

Willie (the Kaiser) and Teddy Roosevelt are big fans of his writing

The US is going to be hard to woo into a military alliance with anyone, as the words of George Washington "Avoid entangling alliances" were American policy until pretty much World War II. Even in World War I, Wilson considered the US more a co-bellegerent than a member of the Allied Powers.

The US definitely won't adopt German style conscription or even willingly adopt conscription unless it gets in a shooting war, and sadly (for me getting into the action in Europe) the US isnt' going to get into a war because of some problem in Central Europe.

However, the US is a trading nation, second behind Britain only in the 19th Century, even after substantial shipping losses in the Civil War. Without the West, it is going to be even more that way, and will move aggressively (commercially) into Latin America and China (Open Door Policy begins about this time period). Unless California, Texas and Dixie industralize heavily somehow (and capital is a real problem for them), they are going to end up being commercial colonies of the US even though they remain politically independent. The US will stay the hell out of Africa though, other than Liberia, but Asia and the Pacific are different matters. The US might even fight to get some islands in the Pacific should it see the need (and Mahan is writing his book about now, "The Influence of Seapower upon History".

Willie (the Kaiser) and Teddy Roosevelt are big fans of his writing


Just out of curiousity, where does my Columbian Empire come in? We essentially control the Carribean(The CSA? PFFFFT! They're navy sucked in the 1860's and since their economy is still probably as advanced as modern-day Bangladesh....), Central America, AND we are VERY influental in South America(do to the fact that we ARE in South America. Well, Columbia and Venezuela are. Panama and Honduras Colombino Colony, which is modern-day belize, are in Central America), and our fairly large and powerful navy could fight a fight that we would most likely win against any opponent. Other than the British Empire, of course, but even though we would DEFFINETLY loose, we'd put up a helluva fight.

Besides, i dun think ANY country would like to invade a country thats about 99.7% rainforest and fight against people that use guerilla tactics.

Galveston: I think Tom left by now if we go that route. ;)

The British rule the waves at this point, everywhere. They have sizeable naval squadrons in the Mediterranean (second most powerful fleet of battleships in the world after the British Home Fleet, which wasn't called that yet), with sizeable squadrons of cruisers and gunboats in the Indian Ocean, West African Coast, East African Coast, South Atlantic, Gibraltar, South Atlantic (based out of Capetown), the American Squadron (based in Canada), the West Indies Squadron (based out of Jamaica), the East Indies Squadron (based at Tientsin China), and scattered patrols throughout the Pacific as well.

Only the Americans and French have squadrons anywhere close to that widespread. The French have two main fleets (Brest and Toulon), with the bulk of the battleships in this era at Brest. The Americans don't really have any battleships (historically, but I will fix that) as they neglected their navy until 1881 in our timeline. But, they had a lot of monitors left over from the Civil War to guard the coasts, and a lot of sloops and gunboats for overseas duty and patrol overseas they did. The Americans had a squadron in the East Indies, Mediterranean, South Atlantic (slave trade suppression) Pacific (although in this timeline would be in Hawaii not California) and the principal exercise and working up area for the US Navy is the Caribbean (the seas being some much calmer than the North Atlantic after all)

The French also had similiar squadrons much like the Americans and British

The Germans barely have a navy, the Austrians and Italians have fleets designed to fight in the Adriatic and Med, and the Russians had sizeable fleets in the Baltic and Black Seas, and small squadrons (at this point) in the Pacific and Barents Sea.

Japan had barely started a navy, and China had one that was equipped with fairly good ships in the 1880s, badly led, and got its ass handed to it by the Japanese in the Sino-Japanese War

The Latin Americans had show case fleets (one or two battleships, a few sloops and gunboats) but only Brazil and Argentina had ever used it in war (against Paraguay in 1860s) and that was primarily riverine operations.

But the Latins do have some good ships, and Chile had a really good naval tradition (they used their navy to good effect against the Spanish)

that pretty much sums it up.

SO the Americans and British control the Caribbean and only in local waters is anyone likely to be able to challenge the British.

Well put.

Of course, the Germans are going to be working on that navy much sooner than IRL. I'm just wondering about what exactly a realistic rate of naval expansion would be. I would imagine it would be quite fast by that time's standards, as Germany's economy was growing quite rapidly. (only the US was growing as quickly)

Now we have a few differences here. A large nation in East Africa has a fleet of ships bought from the Americans and British, so the British probably keep their big fleet in the Med, and upgrade the one in India.

There is a power essentially where Chile is, so the British probably have a bigger South Atlantic squadron, but its not a critical issue so maybe not. British Hannover probably handles the American squadron chore for the RN, and part of the British Pacific fleet. California probably has a small navy, but its not a big factor. The Americans are much more dependent on international trade in this timeline, so they would have had to build some kind of base (a coaling station most likely) at Hawaii and some kind of arrangement with the Californians to use Mare Island (San Francisco) for repairs.

A stronger Colombia would worry the Americans a little, but not much, and the principal mission of the US Navy is to maintain the Monroe Doctrine, and guard the coasts, and create a problem for the British if they fight, and blockade the CSA if they fight. The CSA was one of the more innovative navies in the history of warfare, with the first successful use of mines, submarines, ironclads, so don't underrate them. They probably have a couple of cruisers (Shenandoah for one, plus a couple of ships they built in England that in OTL went to Prussia and Japan, but still around for the CSA). They definitely would have other ships, probably some improved ironclads after the war, plus what they bought overseas. The CSA appreciates Naval power probably like no other, as they were blockaded for the duration of their war of independence. But they probably keep their fleet entirely in home waters or the Caribbean.

So my guess is that the Rebs, Yankees and British spend a lot of time sailing or steaming around the Caribbean waving at each other and the Colombians.

*nods*

Very nicely done.

Now we have a few differences here. A large nation in East Africa has a fleet of ships bought from the Americans and British, so the British probably keep their big fleet in the Med, and upgrade the one in India.

There is a power essentially where Chile is, so the British probably have a bigger South Atlantic squadron, but its not a critical issue so maybe not. British Hannover probably handles the American squadron chore for the RN, and part of the British Pacific fleet. California probably has a small navy, but its not a big factor. The Americans are much more dependent on international trade in this timeline, so they would have had to build some kind of base (a coaling station most likely) at Hawaii and some kind of arrangement with the Californians to use Mare Island (San Francisco) for repairs.

A stronger Colombia would worry the Americans a little, but not much, and the principal mission of the US Navy is to maintain the Monroe Doctrine, and guard the coasts, and create a problem for the British if they fight, and blockade the CSA if they fight. The CSA was one of the more innovative navies in the history of warfare, with the first successful use of mines, submarines, ironclads, so don't underrate them. They probably have a couple of cruisers (Shenandoah for one, plus a couple of ships they built in England that in OTL went to Prussia and Japan, but still around for the CSA). They definitely would have other ships, probably some improved ironclads after the war, plus what they bought overseas. The CSA appreciates Naval power probably like no other, as they were blockaded for the duration of their war of independence. But they probably keep their fleet entirely in home waters or the Caribbean.

So my guess is that the Rebs, Yankees and British spend a lot of time sailing or steaming around the Caribbean waving at each other and the Colombians.


Ahhh, but what if the Columbians get pissed off at everyone? I could, y'know, just invade Costa Rica, Then Nicaragua, then Guatemala, then El Salvador, then Mexico, and then my empire would rule the entire-central america!

And, not to mention, i have a sizable fleet with a large army. While i STILL think i should rule the carribean(seeing how i have many naval bases in strategic places AND quite a few armored battleships), if you guys wont let me i would still be able to kick-ass there. Expecially since none of your nations actually BORDER the carribean.

Like you pointed out your country is 99.7% rainforest, therfore you have almost no industrial capability so all your ships will be bought from foreign powers. So IMO your navy should be no larger than mderate sized. You do have a very good strategic location though and can deny a canal route to any power (because of the rainforest), so i would think that none of the powers will be quick to antagonize you. Also since at this time much of your population is going to be engaged in subsitnce farming dont over estimate the power of you army. Im sorry if this is too forward.

Like you pointed out your country is 99.7% rainforest, therfore you have almost no industrial capability so all your ships will be bought from foreign powers. So IMO your navy should be no larger than mderate sized. You do have a very good strategic location though and can deny a canal route to any power (because of the rainforest), so i would think that none of the powers will be quick to antagonize you. Also since at this time much of your population is going to be engaged in subsitnce farming dont over estimate the power of you army. Im sorry if this is too forward.

...

1. my navy IS moderate sized(i gots 30 10 year old boats and 60 80 year old ones.)

2. I was EXAGERATING the rainforest. There is a large area of Panama with no rainforest, HUGE areas in Columbia(mostly in the mountains or around thar capital), and large areas in Venezuela.

3. Besides, if i couldnt field a large army, how did Columbian conquer like 80% of the Spanish American colonies?(the other 20% was Mexico)

My appologies, i know you were exagerating about the rainforest i just wasnt sure how much. i dont have a problem with your navy you just seemed to be getting a little bit of the im going to win everything attitude i see in so many other RPs. Also i do respect your right to field a large army i would expect it have older euipment. I just ask that you can justify your military.

My appologies, i know you were exagerating about the rainforest i just wasnt sure how much. i dont have a problem with your navy you just seemed to be getting a little bit of the im going to win everything attitude i see in so many other RPs. Also i do respect your right to field a large army i would expect it have older euipment. I just ask that you can justify your military.

Its ok, i shoulda said i was exagerating.

I dun have an "im gonna win everything" atitude. In fact, im already plotting my countries downfall due to a Rebellion in Venezuela, then a *failed* attempt at conquering central america(im thinking that ill get defeated in the Yucatan Peninsula), then a rebellion in Panama.

My military is large because my Emperor is REALLY paranoid and believes (justly) that his empire is falling apart and that foreign nations wish to rule it. So, hes conscripted massive amounts of soldiers to his banner. They are mostly armed with 1860-era weapondry, with only 3 regiments using solely repeaters, and even then they are old ones.

Aww and you were just getting started, i think you should stick around and keep all those nasty euopeans paws off of panama

Aww and you were just getting started, i think you should stick around and keep all those nasty euopeans paws off of panama

Dun worry :D Columbia isnt going to have its rebellion in Venezuela for AGES!

Dun worry :D Columbia isnt going to have its rebellion in Venezuela for AGES!

don't underestimate Latin American Armies.... one of the most savage wars fought in the 19th Century (or anytime) was between Paraguay and Argentia, Brazil and Uruguay (Rio Plata War). The maniac who ran Paraguay managed to get just about every man 13 - 60 into his army and the only army that ever fought like they did was the Japanese (fight to death literally).

A motivated Colombian Army could be interesting. Nobody in Central America even has a useful army except for the Mexicans (who have recent experience against the French, and some older experience against the Americans) and Colombia is a very powerful regional power (compared to Peru, Ecuador or Central America). The British and Americans probably wouldn't get too involved as long as their economic interests weren't tampered with either.

Don't forget Spain still owns Cuba and Puerto Rico, and the Brits, French and Danes (Virgin Island) and the Dutch have colonies in the area, and the British own Belize (British Honduras).

On land the Colombians can be a real factor. At sea its different. Colombia would have to depend on overseas suppliers for most everything their navy needs (spares mainly, plus replacement ships and first class repair facilities). At sea the Colombians are very vulnerable in a long fight.

Spanish Cuba and Puerto Rico might be ripe for your plucking Lightning Star, especially since Cuba is already restive at this point (and full scale revolt is only a few years away).

when should we expect the Confederacy to show up?

I've heard of that war ... didn't Paraguay lose 60% of its population or some insane amount like that?

The Confederacy? Hopefully soon. But the fellow seems to be a bit busy. I'm pestering him about it, heh.

I've heard of that war ... didn't Paraguay lose 60% of its population or some insane amount like that?

The Confederacy? Hopefully soon. But the fellow seems to be a bit busy. I'm pestering him about it, heh.

yep, it was about that. Just about depopulated Paraguay for the remainder of the century and well into this one.

The US Navy, by the way, will send a modern cruiser, several obsolete sloops (steam/sail mix), a provesional battalion of marines, a handful of relatively modern gunboats, and a couple of colliers and supply ships to help out the British in the Indian Ocean (drawn from the US West African, Mediterranean and East Indies squadrons) under a Flag Officer (US didn't use the rank of Admiral or Commodore much until 1890s).

The US Navy at this point has more experience in amphibous operations than anybody else, British included (and got some practice just a few years back in Korea of all places.. would you believe the US Marines have landed at Inchon not once (1950) but twice (1872). They get around. It was an attempt to open up Korea like the US did Japan (successful militarily, but failed to achieve the political goal). Korea didn't have the name Hermit Kingdom for nothing.

what were 19th century amphibious operations like?

what were 19th century amphibious operations like?

The Yankee Navy (which conducted a lot of amphib landings in the Civil War) would mass its ships which would fire like mad to keep the heads down of the enemy defenders manning any forts, while large numbers of surfboats (essentially large row boats) carried troops ashore (repeat trips too). In a couple of operations the Yankees even used steamers to bring the boats in close, where they rowed the rest of the way. Horses where pushed over the side of the ship and they swam ashore (mostly), artillery was brought in unassembled on boats and mounted on their carridges on the beach.

Generally the idea was to land were the enemy wasn't, or at least, wasn't in strength.

Landing on a defended beach generally resulted in a lot of casualties and wasn't tried often (and frequently failed).... The British and Americans each have conducted more amphibious landings than the remaining nations of the world combined (except for each other). They are the experts (which they retain to this day)

The US is going to propose to the British and British Hannover that the US be given Hawaii and half of Samoa, and will attempt to purchase from the Spanish the Mariana Island group, which along with Wake and Midway will give the US Navy a string of bases all the way across the Pacific.

The US is also going to try to purchase the Virgin Islands (which belong to Denmark at this point).

The Americans will often as a symbol of good faith to the British the signing of a treaty of Friendship with British Hannover, and a similar treaty with California and Texas and pledge to eliminate its warships on the Great Lakes (there are a couple) and demilitarize remaining (incredibly out of date) fortifications along the US / British Hannover border.

The US will offer the Spanish (and Danes) $100 Million (in gold) for the desired territory, plus breaks on tarriffs and pledge to leave Spanish holdings alone in the Caribbean.

Is it to late to join in?
If not what nation do you sugest?

Is it to late to join in?
If not what nation do you sugest?

I would consider if I were you California (read the back story for the Republic of Texas, United States, and Sangro de Christo)... you get most of California,plus Nevada, Oregon, Washington, Alaska (read the Russian back story), Idaho, and Montana

I would also consider China or Spain, although they are being acted on more than acting on anyone else

Italy or Brazil is a good choice also (for vastly different reasons)

most of the other major powers have been claimed for now

Just in case if you all are curious or whatever... I'm also Tellacar and this darned forum won't let me switch names so please check out the title to figure out who I'm writing for for now on. :)

wheres the backstory for 'Sangro de Christo'?

Kanor: Nope, not too late to join at all.

The single most needed country right now is probably Italy. With the Ottoman Empire (what remains of it), Brazil and the Republic of California being other good choices. Argentina isn't too shabby either.

Italy- The only really important European country not represented. Would be nice for the Osterlich RP and a nice middleweight.

Brazil- A nice big Latin American country ... a balance for Columbia. You'd also get lots of immigrants.

Republic of California- When we get our CSA player, this would complete North America.

Argentina- Nice big Latin American country ... also a balance for Columbia. Immigrants went here in numbers exceeded only by Canada and the USA.

Sangre de Christo is a breakaway country of mostly Mexican (but some American) border territories. He's also been MIA for ages, so ... uhm, I might have to assume he's not in this RP soonish.

Galveston: Sounds okay. If you just want to RP-assume the Spaniards and Danes go for that, that's okay with me. On the claims map, I have the Germans as owning Papua New Guinea, the Solomons and the Carolines. What's the likelihood and/or necessity of the Germans and the Americans making a deal to allow their ships to use each other's refuelling/repair facilities if needed?

The US then purchases the Marianas Island group (a good harbor at Guam, plus Saipan, Rota, Tinian and a few smaller specks of islands) from Spain, which along with the ownership of Wake Island and Midway (both claimed by USA in 1850s) gives the US a chain of anchorages clear across the Pacific.

The American Virgin Islands (St John, St Croix, and St. Thomas) gives the US anchorages in the Caribbean (1600 miles from New York City, but only 100 miles from Puerto Rico). This allows the US to have a permanent presence there as well.

The Germans own Rabual (New Ireland) and Truk (Carolines) which are the two best anchorages in the entire Pacific between Manila Bay and Hawaii. Rabual would be a tropical hell hole, but Truk is fairly nice actually. The Marshal Islands are still in contention, and they belong to Spain too. Historically the Germans bought them but the US is going to try to slip in a bid before the Germans do (while they are busy dealing with Osterlich)

Eniwetok and Kwajalien are almost as good for anchorages as Truk, and a lot better than Wake or Midway.

Everything out in the Pacific is marginally developed at best, so basically the Germans and Americans just have places to anchor, not real bases yet.

Galveston: It's quite likely that the Americans will manage to take the Marshalls. While a decent prize ... Osterlich is a greater priority at the moment. The Kaiser has colonial ambitions (and a pretty good start, better than IRL Germany) but Europe is still the MAIN field for Germany. The Congo may be a hellhole, but it's a hellhole chock full of valuable resources.

information on German sea power in the late Victorian Age

http://www.geocities.com/aleph135/NAVY.HTML (background stuff)

http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Niemcy/Niemcy.html (ship information)

British information


http://home.att.net/~wellsbrothers/Battleships/RNBBtable.html

all navies of the period and their ironclads
http://www.wideopenwest.com/~jenkins/ironclads/foreign.htm

at what point do we reach 1881 or better yet, 1890?

where can I get information about Italy in 1880?

OOC> Galveston, I think we're probably (I'd like to) skip ahead to 1890 right after the Osterlich mess is resolved. Chronologically, the thread is moving ahead rather slowly (although it's not going too badly overall) so I think a bit of a time leap is in order. Between now and then, it's rather unlikely that there are going to be any colossal land grabs. Mostly just consolidating what the Conference gave them and in the case of you, purchases, and in the case of Nordrreich (almost certainly) conquest.

Kanor- Don't know of any websites off of the top of my head, but I can actually pick up a bit of demographic data from another source. But in general, I think Italy's population was about thirty million. The northern part was reasonably developed, but the south was (and still is) much poorer and mostly agricultural. You have a colony where Libya is IRL today. The Italian army was mid-sized (maybe 200,000 or so), but probably behind in equipment. The navy was better than the army, but also broadly medium-sized (maybe 50 vessels as opposed to the USA's 100 or Britain's just over 200?)

I am moderately sure Italy got Libya in 1912, but I will need to research further... an initial search didn't get much info on Italy, I will see what I can find today.

Hope everyone finds the links I attached further up useful, lots of information on Victorian era navies there.

Application for 1880 RP
Name of Country: The Kingdom of Italy
Head of State: King Humbert I
Head of Government: Agostino Depretis
Form of Government: Parliament
Capital: Rome

Population of Country: 30 million
Official Language: Italian
Ethnicity of Country: Mainly Italian, some Germanic and Slav
Religion of Country: Nearly all Roman Catholics

Culture of Country: Italian

Stability of Country: Stable.

Economy of Country: Main source of income is food, textiles and trade.

Land Military of Country: 220,000 men in the standing army, equipment is of moderate quality but tends to be old.
Imperiale Protezione di Milano
2 Battalions of 1000 men plus Officers
20 Companies
2000 Men
20 Capitani (Capitano)
40 Tenenti (Tenente)
4 Colonnello di Tenenti (Colonnello di Tenente)
2 Colonelli (Connello)
1 Principale Connello
Important Soldiers
Prinipale Connello Horatio Spuri (39)

Imperiale Protezione di Roma
5 Battalions of 1000 men plus Officers
50 Companies
5000 Men
50 Capitani (Capitano)
100 Tenenti (Tenente)
10 Colonnello di Tenenti (Colonnello di Tenente)
5 Colonelli (Connello)
1 Principale Connello


Navy of Country: 49 combat vessels of which 24 are given below.
Broadside ironclads: Terribile, Formidabile, Re d'Italia, Re di Portogallo,
Regina Mari Pia, San Martino, Castelfidardo, Ancona, Principe di Carignano, Messina, Conte Verde, Roma, Venezia
Armored sloops: Palestro, Varese
Floating batteries: Guerriera, Voragine
Turret ram: Affondatore
Armored gunboats: Alfredo Cappellini, Risoluta, Faa di Bruno, Audace
Central battery ships: Principe Amedeo, Palestro
Other vessels are mainly armed merchant ships that can be called to service by the Kings Order.

Other Information: King Humbert I has recently had an attempt on his life the assailant did not reveal if he was hired by anyone before he died. Humbert is very much pro- Nordrreich.

Colony: None

OOC: Is that okay, oh and we got Libya in 1911-12

Italy looks good to me.... you might want to check when Italy got Rhodes and the other Greek Islands, and getting Libya at this point is probably a lot easier as Turkey appears to have been completely fractured.

The turks have Dodecanese Islands untill 1912 aswell

Nordrreich Kaiser: :D

Application accepted. Your borders are a smidge different than IRL modern Italy, I suggest you check out the Sudetenland thread and look at the map. You might just be getting a bit of territory out of this situation. Not to mention that being a Nordrreich ally, you might find yourself getting Libya a smidge earlier. ;)

Sudetenland Uprising/Crisis In Osterlich Thread- http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=369315&highlight=1880

Is Italy on the map?

Italy is to the south of Osterlich (the orange country) in the bright green. It's not the whole country, but all the other borders are exactly as IRL. It's a relatively small geographical difference.

And to everybody, we are skipping ahead to 1890 when the Sudetenland Crisis is over. I've cooked up a (surprisingly effective) population growth formula. For almost all of you, that is simply to have an aggregate of about 1% a year ... it seems pretty effective in simulating reasonably fast population growth.

There are a few exceptions ... the United States, British Hannover and Texas will get a slightly higher population growth due to immigration (either 1.25% or 1.5% or something of that nature) and France would probably get less, due to an almost stagnant population in the era.

If Sangro de Christo has vanished or effectively has by the time we move to 1890, then Texas is going to annex the Rio Grande area all the way up to the US border in Colorado, plus the Pecos River Valley. It will helop the Mexicans annex Chihuahua and Sonora in exchange for a joint Texas / Mexican railroad. Texas will attempt to use subversion to gain what it can without a fight, then get the Mexicans to move on Chihuaha and Sonora, and try to persuade the Californians to move into Arizona and Los Angeles / San Diego (which shouldn't be hard)

basically like the 18th Century partition of Poland if all three nations act in conjuction, Sangro De Christo will probably collapse very quickly, possibly without fighting (or at least without coordinated fighting)

Then Texas, California and Mexico will have the entertaining prospect of subduing the Apache, as I doubt Sangro has been able to (they fought until 1887 in our timeline)

The US is going to view the substantial expansion of Nordrreich with mild misgivings (one of the central tenents of American strategic policy is that no one nation so dominate Europe as to be capable of building a large enough navy to project power across the Atlantic in strength) and a German naval build up will worry the Americans too (it did wonders to give Roosevelt the excuse to build up the American Navy).

The US is going to being talking quietly with the British and British Hannover to ensure that if anybody builds a canal across Panama or Nicaruaga, which had promise too and was a serious choice is under the control of North American powers (with a side deal with the British Navy)

The US is going to do some serious studies of Nicaruaga (less of a Malaria and Yellow Fever problem than Panama) and accidently on purpose let the Colombians know about it.

By the way, the American Naval Intelligence service (Office of Naval Intelligence) dates back to the 1870s, the British already have MI6 (Secret Intelligence Service) and I suspect the British Hannoverians would have something similiar in the works as soon as they can. (evil grin)

In terms of the canal, the British might want a dual US/British investment, with Britain being represented by British Hannover. The British were intitially antsy about the US restarting manifest destiny, but I think they've come to the conclusion that the actual government is pretty reasonable. And they want to keep relations friendly with NA, because Europe is looking a touch scary now.

I did the population estimates ... Nordrreich would probably have a population of just a smidge under eighty million by 1914, nearly twice that of France. And without an Eastern Front to worry about, as the Russian/German alliance is, I would venture to say, nearly unbreakable. Stuff happens of course, but I think both powers realize that it's in their best interests to be friendly.

The Germans are going to be looking more towards the rest of the world now that they, the Russians and the Italians nearly have Central/Eastern Europe in their pockets. The Germans actually will end up with a sliver of Mediterranean coastline after taking Osterlich, which might make their naval buildup even more frantic. In terms of colonial expansion, they're going to be looking at the Spanish and Portuguese colonies that are left.

Of course, most people who aren't directly allied with the Germans are going to NOT want this. Colonially and navally, this is quite possible. In terms of land armies, however, unless diplomatic alignments change, Germany is going to be able to dominate Europe. Economically as well, as the Bohemian portions of Osterlich in particular have excellent industrial potential, with significant coal and iron ore deposits.

Nordrriech I agree 100% on the assessment. Basically we are looking at Oceania vs Europa situation, with the US/UK and allies forced to work together to prevent German domination as the century comes to a close. Which is why the US is working so hard to establish naval bases in the Pacific and working on getting the direct links to them.

the North Americans will have to work together to build a canal, and could do so by the turn of the century, after all, the US (which at that time economically was primarily the US I currently control) did it by itself in OTL. In this one, will require British help. I will have to review Path to the Sea (THE best book on the Canal) to see why the Nicaruaga idea was disgarded, I think the mountain range on the Caribbean side was the principal issue, while Panama was relatively (only relatively) flatter.

The US is going to sell any ships the Japanese want to buy as well (counterweight to Russia in the Pacific)

Historically, somehow Germany messed up and alienated Russia, but I don't remember how. I Will have to review that.

Fundamentally, it was because of conflicts between Russia and Austria-Hungary. That and the IRL Kaiser Wilhelm II was at times, a blithering idiot. Seeing as there's no Austria-Hungary and the Nordrreicher Kaiser is actually reasonably perceptive and intelligent, I rather doubt that alliance will break up.

The UK, US, Japan and British Hannover (in concert with Britain, but large enough to be considered independently) are relatively safe, with an ocean seperating them. France, however, is in rather deep trouble. The Germans are even more powerful than IRL and have no Eastern Front. Given this condition, I think it might be possible that Britain might be forced to introduce at least limited conscription, because it's going to have to send a lot of troops over to keep France from going down for the count.

Germany In 1890:

Name of Country: Deutscher Reich (German Empire)
Head of State: Kaiser Friedrich II
Head of Government: Kaiser Friedrich II
Form of Government: Constitutional Monarchy
Region: Central Europe

Population of Country: 67,159,592 (Natural population growth is fairly rapid)

Capital: Konigstadt (1,500,000 and growing very rapidly)
Official Language: German (Czech and Polish widely spoken)
Ethnicity of Country: 84% German, 9% Czech, 5% Polish, 2% Other
Religion of Country: 55% Protestant, 43% Catholic, 2% Jewish

Culture of Country: German, with increasing division between high and popular culture, and in high culture, between conservative tastes and modernists. Vienna is a world cultural capital and Munich and Konigstadt also have lively cultural lives.

Stability of Country: While there is almost no threat of a major armed revolt, there are significant nationalist and socialist tensions in the Empire. However, the Czechs and Poles are still for the most part, loyal to the Kaiser, who can offer them at the very least, a higher standard of living than, say, Russia. Minority policy has also been fairly generous.

Economy of Country: The German Empire is, along with the United States, the fastest growing economy in the world. A large and growing population, coupled with the recently added territories has greatly increased Germany’s industrial power. Individual citizens are increasingly prosperous as consumer industries are growing along with heavy industry. Social welfare legislation by the government, as well as a major attempt to overhaul city infrastructure, has helped to reduce poverty considerably. Agriculture is also increasingly efficient, although the Empire now requires food imports. Russia is its largest trading partner, with Germany exporting manufactures in exchange for grain and various raw materials.

Land Military of Country: By a sizeable margin the largest in the world, the Reichswehr is comprised of approximately 750,000 men. Of these, 300,000 are continually active, another 300,000 are stationary reserves that can be rapidly activated, and about 150,000 are required for garrison duty or colonial garrisons. In addition to the peacetime army, Germany is capable of easily raising over a million additional troops from the reserves, which comprise all able-bodied men between the ages of 18 and 45.

Navy of Country: The Kaisermarine, once a tiny force, is now a decent-sized and rapidly expanding naval force. About forty-five vessels, almost all modern cruisers, with a few especially powerful proto-dreadnoughts are stationed as the High Seas Fleet in Kiel. Another approximately fifteen vessels are stationed at Pola, at the tiny Adriatic coastline that Germany possesses. Most of Germany's older vessels are doing colonial duty. The current navy is frantically expanding.

Colonies:
German Congo:
Population: 21.1 million
Resources: Rubber, copper, diamonds, ivory
Colonial Army: 25,000* (2,000 Germans, 23,000 Natives)
Colonial Fleet: 5 ironclads (will expand dramatically)
*= This number can, of course, grow rather dramatically in the event of an attack.

German West Africa:
Population: 2.3 million
Resources: Cotton, coffee, cocoa
Colonial Army: 5,000 (500 Germans, 4,500 Natives)
Colonial Fleet: 3 ironclads (will expand dramatically)

German Pacific:
Population: 1.4 million
Resources: Tropical wood, fish, coconuts
Colonial Army: 10,000 (1,000 Germans, 9,000 Natives)
Colonial Fleet: 10 Ironclads (will expand dramatically)

So I’m guessing that England and/or the UK are going to make some sort of arrangement with Japan?

The answer is yes. Yes they will. Because Germany scares the piss out of them, heh.

USA in 1890 (amend previous post information)

population is now 45 million (heavy immigration continues, this does not count the states that aren't in the Union), economy is booming again with a heavy export trade, railroads now connect all parts of the US and extend to California (Northern Pacific RR route is used) and British Hannover, as well as to Texas and the Confederacy.

current President is Benjamin Harrison (Republican who succeeded President Blaine who served 2 terms). Pro Navy, believes in an active US role in the world, and also has just signed the Sherman Anti Trust Act.

Capital remains Washington DC because tradition but most functions (bueracracy) is actually located in Chicago (closer to center of country)

US overseas colonies
Caribbean: US Virgin Islands (population 40,000 exports: none, primarily a US naval base for the US South Atlantic squadron), small garrison of 1 Coast Artillery battalion

Pacific
Marshal Islands (population 20,000) exports: coconuts capital is Kwajalein which has a US navy coaling station, small garrison of 1 coast artillery battalion

Marianas Islands (population 100,000) exports: copra, capital is Agana, Guam which holds a US Navy coaling station, larger garrison with 1 infantry regiment, 1 coast artillery regiment, plus US Marine Barracks Pacific (battalion sized unit)

American Somoa (population 15,000) exports: copra, capital is Pago Pago, which also holds a US Navy coaling station, small repair facility, garrison of 1 infanty regiment, 1 coast artillery regiment, US Marine Barracks South Pacific (battalion sized unit)

Midway and Wake Islands (anchorages that are patrolled but not really inhabited)

The Hawaiian Islands are under US and British dominion, with the Americans running the show (although the island is technically independent, it isn't really anymore) population 90,000 (of which half are native), exports are suger cane, pineapples, and it supplies food to the US bases in the Pacific, plus the US has a coaling station and floating drydock at Pearl Harbor. The Marine Legation is company sized, and the naval station has a Marine Barracks (battalion sized).

US Navy 1890 (basically, the slow building schedule of the 1880s in real life is much accelerated because the US is now principally a maritime trade nation without the rest of the continent to deal with, hence a bigger modern navy 10 years ahead of time)

Modern Ships: 8 1st Class Protected Cruisers (Olympia type), 8 2nd Class Protected Cruisers (Boston type), 12 large gunboats (3rd rate cruisers really), 8 gunboats, 24 torpedo boats plus 2 battleships (Maine type) fitting out, 2 Maine type, 4 Indiana type under construction (reaching the fleet one a year for next 6 years), 6 gunboats and 12 torpedo boats under construction (reaching fleet over next 3 years),

Older ships: 4 Coast Defense Monitors (3rd rate battleships with little range or speed but big guns and lots of armor), 6 Sloops (wooden steam and sail leftovers from the civil war era with modernized weapons and new engines), plus USS Constitution (training sail frigate), USS Constellation (training sail sloop of war)

plus a number of support ships including tenders, tugs, transports, dispatch boats, revenue cutters

the old Ironclad monitors have all been scrapped or sold, as have the remaining Civil War era gunboats and sloops.

Marine Corps: 6,000 (spread throughout the fleet but a couple of battalions for expeditions are available)

US Army: 26,000 men but still in regiments, no brigades or divisions organized, primarily a garrison force and nucleus for wartime expansion but a few regiments are overseas. Plus 100,000 in the National Guard which are also still organized in regiments. Basically the Army isn't ready for action and would require a year to expand to useful numbers. Still using older weapons as well. However, most regular officers have combat experience from the Indian Wars and are excellent at the tactical level. Most senior officers are still Civil War veterans and remember how to fight a real war.

bumpzorz(im workingsz0rs on my aplicationz0rz.)

OOC> Galveston, don't know ... but if the US lost the South, wouldn't it move its capital from DC? Or have you done that?

Britain in 1890:

Name of Country: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland
Head of State: Queen Victoria
Head of Government: Prime Minister William Gladstone
Form of Government: Constitutional Monarchy
Region: UK and Ireland

Population of Country: 39,766,397

Capital: London (population 6,000,000, the largest city on Earth)
Official Language: English
Ethnicity of Country: 70% English and Welsh, 15% Irish, 10% Scots, 5% Other
Religion of Country: 66% Protestant, 29% Catholic, 2% Jewish, 3% Other

Culture of Country: British. England is considered one of the nerve centres of Western Civilization.

Stability of Country: Sublime, unless you talk to the Irish. Because they're getting really antsy.

Economy of Country: In 1890, Britain still has the world's largest economy, although its industrial supremacy is being threatened by the US and Germany. However, Britain, and especially London is still, by far, the world's largest trading and services economy. London is the king of the financial world, and the British have their hands in nearly every investment portfolio on Earth.

Land Military of Country: The British Army is a fairly small, professional force. Conscription is not in place currently, although a surging Germany has made Parliament wonder whether it might not be adviseable. In total, the British Empire has around 600,000 men under arms, and the capacity to project between 250,000 and 300,000 men in any area of the world.

Navy of Country: The Royal Navy still rules the waves and Britain has expanded its navy in accordance with the German, American and Japanese expansions. The Royal Navy consists of approximately 220 vessels of somewhat varying design, although just over half of them are of the most modern designs. The Royal Navy is currently focusing on replacing the older ships in its fleet with newer designs.

Colonies: (I'll get back to this ... it's a bloody long list, heh)

British Hannover in 1890:

Name of Country: British Hannover
Head of State: Queen Victoria
Head of Government: Prime Minister George Hanton (Conservative Party)
Form of Government: Constitutional Monarchy
Region: Canada

Population of Country: 32,223,385 (Also recieves fairly heavy immigration, especially with the completion of the railroad and the settling of the West)

Capital: New Hannover (990,000)
Official Language: English, German
Ethnicity of Country: 36% British, 35% German, 15% French, 14% Other
Religion of Country: 58% Protestant, 38% Catholic, 2% Jewish, 2% Other

Culture of Country: A mixture of British, German, French and immigrant traditions. The German and English ethnic groups are slowly melding into a composite ethnicity, with elements of both and a certain undefinably unique element. British Hannoverans can be told quite quickly by their unique accent.

Stability of Country: Excellent. British Hannover's booming economy and democratic government are major contributors to its social stability. There is, however, some French resentment towards the dominant Anglo-Germans and there is also some nativist sentiment.

Economy of Country: By 1890, British Hannover has become a very wealthy nation. It has a ready and friendly market in Great Britain and rapidly increasing trade with the United States and other North American countries. Posessing enormous natural resources and with a decent-sized and quickly growing population, British Hannover seems to have a shining future indeed. Industry is a small, but growing sector of the economy.

Land Military of Country: British Hannover has actually reduced the size of its standing army slightly, to 40,000 from a decade ago. The near elimination of major tensions with the USA has contributed to this fact.

Navy of Country: British Hannover has not, however, reduced its navy. In fact, its fleet of approximately 38 modern (although mostly not all that large) is considered, ship for ship, one of the finest in the world. It has largely taken over North American patrolling duties for Britain. The fleetyards at Halifax and Vancouver are well-equipped and can accomodate a larger fleet, and often does accomodate British vessels if somehow needed.

Atlantic Fleet- 29 vessels, including the three cruisers.
Pacific Fleet- 9 vessels.

Colonies: None

OOC: TLS Puppet logging in! ^_-

IC:

Colombia In 1890:

Name of Country: El Imperio Colombino del Cangrejo (Columbian Empire)
Head of State: Emperador Torrijos III
Head of Government: Presidente Inbanez
Form of Government: Constitutional Monarchy
Region: Latin America

Population of Country: 47,271,382

Capital: Bogota(very rich and aristocratic city with extensive slums in the outer areas. Severe overcrowding in the slums. Pop: 2,382,472)
Official Language: Spanish
Ethnicity of Country: 47% Mestizo(mix of European and native), 30% European, 23% Native
Religion of Country: 97% Catholic, 3% Native Religions(although these are being stamped out.

Culture of Country: Latino, although each of the now four republics(Costa Rica, Panama, Venezuela, and Colombia) making up the nation are heavily devided. There was a rebellion in Venezuela 3 years ago, and was only put down when Caracas was burned to the ground.

Stability of Country: Un-stable, government only retains power through fear. The usually restless republic of Panama is for now quiet after the brutal stopping of a popular revolution in Venezuela. The fairly new Republic of Costa Rica(Added in 1884) is, however, quite stable.

Economy of Country: Moderate. The large amount of cheap labor, added to the abundance in materials needed to fund a fairly large industrial machine, has really payed off. However, only the top 30% of people(mostly Columbians or Columbians living in the other republics or colonies) see benefit. The rest of the nation is in severe poverty and they either join the brutal army or live their lives toiling away for mere pennies a day.

Land Military of Country: One of the largest(if not the largest) Armies in the western hemisphere. In total, there are over 500,000 armed soldiers, although nearly 450,000 of them are either conscripts(2 weeks of training and 1850's era weapons) or poorly-trained regulars(4 weeks of training and 1870's era weapons.). The conscripts make up 300,000 of the soldiers while the regulars make up 150,000. The 50,000 others, however, are the feared Columbian Shock troopers, with over 3 months of training and they are armed with some of the most advanced weapondry of the era. If needed, the nation can call up up to 1,000,000 milita(armed with anything ranging from 1820's era weapondry to 16th century pitchforks).


Navy of Country: La Marina Colombina Imperial(The Imperial Columbian Navy) is moderatly sized, with 75 ships in service (although over 50 of them are dating around 1810.) The 25 remaining Guerrero Del Cráneo class ironclad battleships are fairly modern(although they are baisically old Tiburón Class Ironclads which were totally rebuilt, saving money and creating and imperssive ship at the price of manuverability). Succesfully launched a sea-borne invasion of the Galapagos islands(formerly held by Ecuador)

Colonies:
Honduras Colombino(Belize):
Population: 1.72 million
Resources: Wood, firearms.
Colonial Army: 20,000(mostly moderatly well-armed Colonial troops with 6 weeks of training and 1880 era weapondry. Headed by the Uncle of the current Emperor, Jose Torrijos III)
Colonial Fleet: 7 Wooden Frigates, one Tiburón Class Ironclad.

Puerto Rico Colombino:
Population: 2.7 Million
Resources: Coffee, wood, fish.
Colonial Army: 27,000 Colonial Forces
Colonial Fleet: 17 Wooden Frigates, 3 Tiburón Class Ironclads.

Las Islas Galápagos Colombinas:
Population: 30,000
Resources: Tropical wood, Volcanic rocks, rare shells, rare animal parts, exotic pets.
Colonial Army: 7,473 Colonial Forces
Colonial Fleet: 37 Wooden Frigates, 7 Tiburón Class Ironclads).

OOC: BTW-sorry if i made Columbia a bit big by you guyses standards, this country is REALY small though, so i thought a big country would tip the balance a bitz0rz

Name of Country: The Islamic East African Federation of The Lightning Star
Head of State: Council of Emirs
Head of Government: Head Emir Muqta
Form of Government: Totalarian Heptarchy
Region: East Africa

Population of Country: 17,382,482

Capital: Nairobi(Fairly large. Mostly made up of middle-class merchants, only a very small amount of high and low class areas.)
Official Language: Arabic, English, Local Languages.
Ethnicity of Country: 47% native East-African, 43% Arabs, 10% White
Religion of Country: 86% Muslim, 7% Protestant, 5% local religions, 2% Catholic

Culture of Country: Mostly Arab. Soon after losing a brief war with Britain, the Pirates turned on the nation, Burning Maputo, Dar-es-salaam, and nearly 70% of the rest of the nations cities by 1884. The country began to break into smaller nations, and by 1886 only Kenya, Tanzania, Rwanda, and Burundi remained. Later that year, a Muslim army invaded and overwhelmed the nation, and by 1887 the nation was firmly in Arab hands. In the summer of 1887, the nation took over Uganda, which had briefly broken away.

Stability of Country: Surpisingly stable, compared to the fact that the nation was falling apart only 4 years ago. However, the Arab government has restored order to the area, and the people have recovered from the blow. All the nations are firmly under control and, thankfully, all the nations are happy that way.

Economy of Country: Good, although it will never regain its former glory. Due to the fact that the pirates all but turned the nations shorelines into glass, it has lost the title of Important trading-nation. However, due to the recent discovery of Gold and Diamonds in the western countries, and the vast amounts of African wood which is highly demanded around the world, the Economy has returned to a stable state, and nearly all of the nation is betifiting(although it is the Emirs and their families who are benefiting the most)

Land Military of Country: Small, but very well trained and armed. Numbering only 37,000 men, it isnt good in prolonged regular wars. Rather, it is more suited to quick wars against old-fashioned armies, thus giving them a tremendous advantage. These tactics, which were scoffed at in Nairobi when the nation first fought against the Arabs, where soon shown to be deadly effective, destroying a Lightning starian Army of 3x larger and in classic respects better trained in only 2 months. Of course, in their own special way of war the Lightning Starian Army NOw(or the Arab army) is the best of the Armies which use its tactics(which are actually relatively few)


Navy of Country: The Federal Navy is non-existant, due to the fact that Pirates controll the coasts, even though the Arabs kicked them out for 2 years. When the pirates came back in force, however, they encountered no resistance seeing how the coastline was barrne anyhow. The Pirates and the Federation have only signed a non-aggressiontreaty(not an alliance), which is in the interest of both parties. However, if a European ally strolled along that wanted to use the coast...

Colonies: None

Lightning Star, you might want to lower the size of the Galapagos colony (population wise) I am not too sure there is enough arable land on that island chain to feed a tenth that number, maybe not even a hundredth and there were no natives (and still arent in real life)

Norrdreich, not to sure about your Pacific numbers, although you might be right about how many islanders live in the Solomons and New Guinea, odds are your people have met at most a few tens of thousands (most of New Guinea is still relatively unexplored even now)

the CIA fact book has good numbers on practically everywhere... just adjust the numbers substantially (by a factor of 5 or 10)... the figures I give for Hawaii are based on the Kingdom of Hawaii's actual 1890 census (their only one which is amazingly on the internet), and those would seem good numbers (although European diseases reduced the Hawaiian numbers by half to 70 percent prior to that census after contact in 1770s) for most of the Pacific island chains (Hawaii had more arable land than most places)

incidently, the US wants to annex Hawaii.. historically the British were ok with it, although the Hawaiians werent too happy (they actually talked the Cleveland Administration out of it but then McKinley did it anyway a few years later)

Hizashi/Japan - 1890

Head of State: Emperor Meiji
Head of Government: Prime Minister Yamagata Aritomo
Notable Government Figures:
Sezume Tenjou – Foreign Minister

Form of Government: Constitutional Monarchy (In actuality an oligarchic republic)
Region: Japan
Population of Country: 39 million

Official Language: Japanese; other widely spoken languages are Dutch and English.
Ethnicity of Country: Mostly Japanese, some Ainu and other minorities.
Religion of Country: Confucianism and Shinto are the most popular forms of worship. Christianity has started to bud in some areas after being outlawed.

Culture: There is a bit of a conservative backlash against modernization, notably from Shintos.

Stability of the County: Very stable though politically not as free as they claim to be compared to Western European countries. But in comparison to it’s own history, Hizashi is slowly working towards a more people represented government though streaks of militarism are starting to emerge.

Economy: While there are some raw exotic imports like rice and silk, Hizashi has discovered it may not have enough raw materials to stand on it’s own. While they have not publicly admitted to this, becoming producers of raw textiles. They prouduce high quality items but are restricted from branching out due to the lack of resources. Recently the Foreign Minster Sezume Tenjou has been eyeing Korea. Most notably they’ve also been paying attention to developments of Heinrich Rudolph Hertz, with electrical and radio waves. The

Army: 300,000; though conscription is currently underway to expand more men into the army due to the rapid population growth.

Navy: Due to the growing power of Russia, the Hizashi Imperial Navy has been getting most of the attention by the new Parliament. Over 100,000 men can be called for duty for the navy.

Modern ships
-6; 1st Protected Cruisers
-12 Gunboats
-12 torpedo boats
- 2 battles ships

Older Ships
-8; Ironclads
-15; 3rd rate Battle Ships

Political Notes:
-Hizashi is in a cordial alliance with the USA with an agreement (if this isn’t agreeable, let me know Galveston!): exclusive trade from the US colonies and use of most ports in exchange for repairing and selling ships to the said colonies.
-Hizashi is in a more formal military alliance with the UK; notably Hizashi students will be going to English schools instead of German and it is rumored that one of the Emperor’s daughters will be heading to England for a formalized Western education.

OOC> Those pirates are so dead. :D

The Pacific numbers are based on the entire population. The Pacific colonies are not really important based on their people or resources, but their strategic value. Did the US buy the Gilberts? If so, is it okay if I annex them to Germany?

Now, there's a bit of an issue regarding parts of Lighting Star, that is, Mozambique and the modern Zimbabwe. Now, Zimbabwe would go pretty much by default to Britain. Now, Mozambique ... back to Portugal? Possibly Germany, although I don't know if the Brits would like that either. Presumably there's a larger white population than IRL. I doubt Portugal could handle it, frankly.

About Haiti ... I think the numbers for Haiti are too high. I think IRL today Haiti has only about 5-6 million people ... back then, it'd probably be more like 2 million. But it would be valuable nonetheless for sugar plantations.

USA stuff
Japan would have favored status with the US (trade wise) in exchange for US Coaling privilages (those damn steamships eat coal pretty quick) and access to Japan repair yards. Although frankly, there isn't much to really trade for in the US colonies (low populations, not much of value other than position).

Germany, the US would ignore the Gilberts (better harbors elsewhere)

Lightning Star, he may be right about Haiti, besides, you sure you really want it? Puerto Rico and Cuba are FAR more valuable, speak Spanish, and defended by a pretty hapless Spain. Haiti speaks Creole, has a history of slaughtering foreign occupiers (the Haiti slave revolts were as nasty as it gets) but have inept corrupt leadership, a basket case in every respect and vulnerable as hell. I doubt anybody would care if you annexed them. Though you might be sorry later.

Texas stuff
Texas, Mexico and California partition a Sangro de Christo plagued by civil disorder in 1881... Texas takes New Mexico (plus El Paso and the trans Pecos region of OTL Texas), California takes Arizona, and Mexico takes Sonorra and Chihuaha (which gives them some silver mines) plus the Rio Grande border area (south of Texas).. the Texans, Mexicans and Californians built the railroad to Los Angeles and south into Mexico, but Los Angeles becomes the primary export port to the Pacific for Texas.

Everybody ignores the Mormans and hopes they will go away, and everybody spends 10 years putting down the Apaches. By the way, gold should be showing up in Yukon and Alaska soon....

Population of Texas expands to 4 million (includes annexation of New Mexico and TransPecos region). However, dealing with the Apaches keeps the Texas Army busy for 10 years. More combat experience for the Texans fighting guerillas. Plans for expansion of the Texas Navy go on hold, but the ancient ironclads are replaced by torpedo boats (French built) and the ancient sloops (Civil War vintage) continue to soldier on for the Texas Navy.

The first oil is discovered in Texas in Bexar County (thats San Antonio for you foriegners) in 1886, but nobody realizes how useful the salt domes are just yet... (until 1901 and Spindletop) but oil has now been found in sufficient quantities to start the oil industry in Texas (information from the book, The Prize, THE history on the oil business)

Which is good, because the damn bole weavel inflicts frightful damage on the cotton famers in the South right about now, and the crop is essentially quartered everywhere in the South for an entire decade. This will really hurt the CSA, who just lost a lot of their exports (will probably finish off any left over remnants of slavery though).... good thing the Peanut industry is getting started in a big way (courtesy of George Washington Carver, a Black man and one of the geniuses of American history).

Application for 1890 RP
Name of Country: The Kingdom of Italy
Head of State: King Humbert I
Head of Government: Francesco Crispi
Form of Government: Parliament
Capital: Rome

Population of Country: 33 million
Official Language: Italian
Ethnicity of Country: Mainly Italian, some Germanic and Slav
Religion of Country: Nearly all Roman Catholics

Culture of Country: Italian

Stability of Country: Stable. Although in LIbya this is only due to the massive Garrison.

Economy of Country: Main source of income is food, textiles and trade.

Land Military of Country: 240,000 men in the standing army, equipment is of moderate quality but tends to be old/current. (Crispi is trying to modernize the army)
Current Location of Army:
Barl
Line Infantry- 9 battalions
Light Infantry- 1 company
Dodecanese
Light Infantry- 5 companies
Florence
Line Infantry- 8 battalions
Genoa
Line Infantry - 15 battalions
Libya
Line Infantry- 55 battalions
Light Infantry- 12 Battalions
Milano
Line Infantry- 20 battalions
Naples
Line Infantry- 40 battalions
Oristano
Line Infantry- 20 battalions
Roma
Line Infantry- 50 battalions
Trieste
Line Infantry- 10 battalions
Light Infantry- 4 Companies
Verona
Line Infantry- 10 battalions


Navy of Country: 63 combat vessels.
Modern:
 2 Cruisers
 1 Battleship
 12 Gunboats
 6 Torpedo Boats
Old:
 23 Ironclads
 19 3rd rate Battle ships

Other Information: King Humbert I has recently had an attempt on his life the assailant did not reveal if he was hired by anyone before he died. Humbert is very much pro- Germany/Russia. Crispi wants more colonies. Alliance between Russia, Italy and Germany.

Colony:
Libya
Resources: Gypsum, Salt, Limestone
Population: 4.1 million
Colonial Army: 77,000 (67,000 Italians 10,000 Natives)
Navy: 9 Ironclads
Percent Held: 79

Dodecanese Islands
Population: 100,000
Resources: Agriculture, Pearls, Fruit
Colonial Army: 5,000 (500 Italians 4,500 Natives)
Navy: 2 Ironclads

Libyan Berbers fought a long and fierce war against the Italians that began shortly after the occupation... your Army could get some practice that way (and suffer some embarrassing casualties too)

Ok ok! I fixed my colonies! I made Puerto Rico instead of Haiti and shrunk Galapagos to 30k people.

Now, about my(TLS') former african places. They are all either Independent or under the control of fierce pirates(y'know, the ones that attacked Aden and burned my country to the ground?) So you would have to conquer them. Im guessing that the hardest to Conquer would be Mozambique(which includes Zimbabwe), due to the fact that it has more people, a larger army, and actually managed to fight back to pirates. Its also moderatly welltrained and armed, so i would say it would take aout 3 months for the brits to capture, 5 months for anyone else, and 3 years for Portugal to take it back(what did you expect? Portugal is WEAK!). OF course, then youd have quite a long time of Guerilla warfare and rebellions...

The Spanish Candidate- http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=371051

Point taken, Lighting Star. I believe Germany might take a crack at it. They're much more colony-hungry than anyone else right now, well, maybe not Italy, but Germany has rather more means. I'll probably make a thread about that one too. But not until I get back from school.

Application for 1880 RP: (INDEPENDENT NATION )
Name of Country: The Republic of Royer
Head of State: President Armand Legrand
Head of Government: Prime Minister Jean-Luc Milc
Form of Government: Democratic republic with universal sufferage for citizens.
Geographical Location: French Republic

Capital of Country: Paris
Population of Country: 36. 5 million
Official Languages: French
Ethnicity of Country: French 93%, English 4%, German 2%, Other 1%
Religion of Country: Roman Catholic 90%, Protestant 6%, Jewish 2%, Muslim 2%

Culture of Country: French, with a large modernist movement.

Stability of Country: Excellent. The competing governmental factions have subsided, but still occasionaly flair up. There is also an anti-German sentiment amongst some.

Economy of Country: Good. Royer is highly industrialized, but its stagnate population limits expansion.

Land Military of Country: Royer now has a standing army of 120,000 men. Calls for demilitarization have been countered by calls for the armed forces' expansion, due to the "Germany problem".

Navy of Country: 33 combat vessels
2 Battleships
3 Cruisers
16 Gunboats
12 Torpedo boats

Colonies:
(Coming)

Halibris ... Spanish Candidate! Absolutely essential thread, for you more than anyone else, really. Unless you've seen it already, of course. Oh, and you don't have to have your population ABSOLUTELY stagnant. France's population was about 40 million by WWI. So, it'd probably be more like 36.5 or so now. It's just that everyone else grew much faster.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=371051

Oops, I meant to change that.

ooc: Snap, I've forgotten to check in here.

Whutehfeckia in 1890:

Head of State: President John Dondermens
Head of Government: Secretary of State Johann Overzeesproef

Form of Government: Confederacy, although the country is so small the difference between it and a Republic is tiny.
Region: Southern South America
Population of Country: 6.8 million.

Official Language: Dutch, although English is beginning to appear more
Ethnicity of Country: Dutch, German, Austrian, British, Southern American
Religion of Country: No official relgion, but Lutheranism and Catholicism are popular

Culture: European Capitalist

Stability of the County: Very stable although dark future looms if a Panama Canal is made.
Economy: Very Strong

Army: 60,000.

Navy: around 24 ships are in service, including the CWF Mercury-A, which is the current flagship of the navy, after its predecessor's valiant demise.

Modern ships
-2 Proto-Dreadnoughts (including Mercury-A
-5 Battleships
-9 Cruisers

Older Ships
-4 Ironclads
-4 older ships from 1850s still in service

Political Notes:
-relationships between Whutehfeckia and the USA, and well as Britain, growing
-growing tension with Coloumbia, as well as Lightning Star after the Aden incident.

Territories: Zuiden-Patagonia, frontier land in Southern Argentina

Name of Country: Republic of Texas (player nation is Galveston Bay) 1890
Head of State: President James Stephen Hogg
Head of Government: President James Stephen Hogg

Form of Government: Democracy (although only males and females over 21 who can write in English can vote), with a formal constitution based on US model and same Bill of Rights.

Capital: Austin major cities: Houston, Galveston, San Antonio, Dallas, Tulsa, Little Rock, Hot Springs, Santa Fe, El Paso, Albuquerque,
Population: 4 million

Official Language: English
other languages commonly spoken: Spanish, German, various Native American

Ethnicity: White Anglo Saxon primarily, but 5% Black, 10% Mexican, 5% Native American, 5% various European immigrant

Religion of country: No official religion but 80% Protestant, 18% Catholic, 2% other(native american)

Cultures: North American frontier (mix of the Old West and Old South with an Indian and Spanish flavor)

Stability: Very stable political system, although dueling is still a problem outside of the halls of government and to settle disputes of honor. Slavery is no longer legal, as the massive slave rebellions in the Old South after the Civil War and breakup of the United States caused Texas to expel many slaves, most others fled, and the remainder became free (and mostly moved to western areas to escape old prejudices). The Republic is divided into 4 States; Texas, New Mexico, Arkansas, and New Mexico with a Federal district. Congress (1 Reprentative from each County and 1 Senator representing each former Congressional District (100 Senators total).

Economy: Principally agricultural, with ranching dominating, but also cotton farming (sharecrop system), independent family farming, and timber cutting on a large scale. Some industry in Houston and Little Rock, limited elsewhere. Oil production has begun in Central Texas and parts of Oklohoma and exported by rail to the USA or by ship to the world through Galveston and Houston. Substantial trade with Mexico, with Texas buying coal, and exchanging Texas finished goods for Mexican silver. Extensive trade with the rest of North America with cattle being shipped out from Galveston or driven overland to Arkansas (with a rail line connecting St. Louis to Houston through Arkansas being completed in 1879).

Military: 25,000 in the Army with 10 cavalry regiments (guarding frontier), 12 Infantry regiments, and a few support troops plus the Texas Rangers (regimental size but operates in companies or smaller).
A small navy of 12 torpedo boats (at Galveston), 12 steam gunboats (various locations), and 3 steam sloop of war (international presence and to show the flag), 2,000 Men total
Large militia however organized into brigades and divisions.
The regular army and militia officers have extensive experience (Civil War, Indian Wars), but the average militia is relatively green except in the plains regions (Indian Fighting). The militia does spend 40 days a year training however.

The Army is equipped with European breech loading rifles, Colt revolvers and the Cavalry is actually mounted infantry or dragoons more than saber wielding horse soldiers (on the US Civil War model, not European model). Upon mobilization, the Army can field 9 infantry divisions (10,000 men each with 18 pieces of artillery each), 16 Cavalry brigades (2500 men each), 9 fortress brigades (2500 men each) plus a few independent regiments for a total of 160,000 men

Other Information:
Annexed the Trans Pecos region and New Mexico in 1881 in a three way partition of Sangro De Christo by Texas, the Pacific Republic, and Mexico. Allied with Mexico, British Hannover, the Pacific Republic, and the British Empire. Good relations with France, USA, CSA.

United States of America (Galveston Bay/ New Shiron player)
Head of Government and State: President Benjamin Harrison, Secretary of State Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain,
Capital: Washington DC
Largest cities: New York City, Chicago, Kansas City, St Louis, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Boston
Consists of the states of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Delaware, West Virginia, Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Missouri, Minnesota, Kansas, Nebraska, Colorado, Wyoming plus the territories of Dakota, American Virgin Islands, Pacific Territories (Marshal, Marianas islands plus Midway and Wake), American Samoa

Culture: US Northeastern and Midwestern, with frontier culture west of the Mississippi

Economy: The US is an economic and industrial powerhouse, rapidly approaching the British and surpassing everyone else in the world. The US is also rich in resources, especially iron ore, coal and food stuffs. Oil is also

Population: (actual 1890 census) 45 Million (and growing fast because of immigration). (includes adjustments for not having the other missing states)

Official Language: none, but English the de facto official language but just about every language in Europe is spoken in the US, especially in the big Eastern cities.

Stability: After a period of uncertainty and a nasty civil war, the US has managed to retain its constitution and bill of rights and remains a stable nation, more so now that sectionalism is a dead issue.

Military Forces: After a Friendship Treaty with British Hannover and the end of the Indian Wars, the US Army has been restructured. At this time it is in the process of reorganization, and is being expanded to 45 infantry regiments, 14 cavalry regiments, and 10 artillery regiments, with divisions and brigades being organized. However it is still at only 30,000 men, and most units are skeleton strength at this time. Eventual goal is 50,000 man Regular Army, another 200,000 men in the National Guard, and the Regular Army to act as the nucleus of the National Army in time of War (which could easily reach 2 million men). The Army is buying new rifles (Krag Jorgenson) and looking at the new French 75 field artillery piece, while the Coast Artillery is upgrading its weapons as well. Only 5,000 men are deployed overseas (garrisons for the Pacific and Caribbean bases) at this time as many garrisons are understrength at the moment.

The Navy however is becoming a powerful fleet as the old ships from the Civil War have mostly discarded, and the new ships are as modern as any.
US Navy 1890 (basically, the slow building schedule of the 1880s in real life is much accelerated because the US is now principally a maritime trade nation without the rest of the continent to deal with, hence a bigger modern navy 10 years ahead of time)

Modern Ships: 8 1st Class Protected Cruisers (Olympia type), 8 2nd Class Protected Cruisers (Boston type), 12 large gunboats (3rd rate cruisers really), 8 gunboats, 24 torpedo boats plus 2 battleships (Maine type) fitting out, 2 Maine type, 4 Indiana type under construction (reaching the fleet one a year for next 6 years), 6 gunboats and 12 torpedo boats under construction (reaching fleet over next 3 years),

Older ships: 4 Coast Defense Monitors (3rd rate battleships with little range or speed but big guns and lots of armor), 6 Sloops (wooden steam and sail leftovers from the civil war era with modernized weapons and new engines), plus USS Constitution (training sail frigate), USS Constellation (training sail sloop of war)

plus a number of support ships including tenders, tugs, transports, dispatch boats, revenue cutters

the old Ironclad monitors have all been scrapped or sold, as have the remaining Civil War era gunboats and sloops.

Marine Corps: 6,000 (spread throughout the fleet but a couple of battalions for expeditions are available)

Other information: The two major parties, the Democrats and Republicans are fairly moderate in their views, but there is a sizeable Populist Party (pro labor and pro small farmer) on the Left, and a sizeable Union Party (wants to reconquer the South, Texas, California, Utah and also annex Sangro De Christo and even British Hannover) on the far Right.

Colonies:
Caribbean: US Virgin Islands (population 40,000 exports: none, primarily a US naval base for the US South Atlantic squadron), small garrison of 1 Coast Artillery battalion

Pacific
Marshal Islands (population 20,000) exports: coconuts capital is Kwajalein which has a US navy coaling station, small garrison of 1 coast artillery battalion

Marianas Islands (population 100,000) exports: copra, capital is Agana, Guam which holds a US Navy coaling station, larger garrison with 1 infantry regiment, 1 coast artillery regiment, plus US Marine Barracks Pacific (battalion sized unit)

American Somoa (population 15,000) exports: copra, capital is Pago Pago, which also holds a US Navy coaling station, small repair facility, garrison of 1 infanty regiment, 1 coast artillery regiment, US Marine Barracks South Pacific (battalion sized unit)

Midway and Wake Islands (anchorages that are patrolled but not really inhabited)

The Hawaiian Islands are under US and British dominion, with the Americans running the show (although the island is technically independent, it isn't really anymore) population 90,000 (of which half are native), exports are suger cane, pineapples, and it supplies food to the US bases in the Pacific, plus the US has a coaling station and floating drydock at Pearl Harbor. The Marine Legation is company sized, and the naval station has a Marine Barracks (battalion sized).

Foreign Affairs: The US maintains a firm neutrality in the affairs of Europe, but has a working relationship with the British, British Hannover, Texas, California, Japan, and Whutefeckia, and good relations with the German Empire and France and treaty concessions with China. Liberia in Africa is an American client state as well. American economic interests are becoming important in Central America and the Caribbean also.

Is anyone the Ottoman Empire or should I roleplay the Berbers

Is anyone the Ottoman Empire or should I roleplay the Berbers

I don't think it really requires a role play, I would just substantially increase the number of troops you have there (about 100,000 probably needed eventually to suppress it totally, the numbers you have now are sufficient to hold the cities and major towns).

The US is basicallly pushing to set the stage for a Spanish American War (if necessary) by backing revolutionaries in Cuba and the Philippines. Historically, both movements started in the late 1880s, with real fighting breaking out in the mid 1890s. In our timeline, there were a lot of Americans who didn't want the US to annex colonies, but the prevealing belief was that it was necessary. This US isn't at all keen on the prospect either, and is willing to try to set up client states to forestall German or Colombian moves to conquer or purchase those territories.

A German attempt to move into the Caribbean will definitely violate the Monroe Doctrine, and the US was not pleased to see the Colombians take over Puerto Rico.

The US is basicallly pushing to set the stage for a Spanish American War (if necessary) by backing revolutionaries in Cuba and the Philippines. Historically, both movements started in the late 1880s, with real fighting breaking out in the mid 1890s. In our timeline, there were a lot of Americans who didn't want the US to annex colonies, but the prevealing belief was that it was necessary. This US isn't at all keen on the prospect either, and is willing to try to set up client states to forestall German or Colombian moves to conquer or purchase those territories.

A German attempt to move into the Caribbean will definitely violate the Monroe Doctrine, and the US was not pleased to see the Colombians take over Puerto Rico.

Ooooooh boy, i guess they wont be happy when we attack Nicaragua, or when we attack Honduras, and Salvador, and then Belize, and then Guyana, and then Suriname, and then French Guiana, and then Mexico, and then...

Ooooooh boy, i guess they wont be happy when we attack Nicaragua, or when we attack Honduras, and Salvador, and then Belize, and then Guyana, and then Suriname, and then French Guiana, and then Mexico, and then...

don't forget that Belize is called British Honduras at this point (and is a British colony), and I suspect we are going to have a splendid little war against you at some point if Colombian expansion continues.. could be fun

don't forget that Belize is called British Honduras at this point (and is a British colony), and I suspect we are going to have a splendid little war against you at some point if Colombian expansion continues.. could be fun

Thats where you are wrong. Belize has been Honduras Colombino for the last 57 years. Didnt you read my applications?(both 1880 and 1890.)?

Oh, and dont forget, my army is about 20x larger than the U.S.'(althought the soldiers are mostly conscripts and poorly armed and trained. I dont think even the BRITISH could win a battle thats 20-1.)

Lighting Star: The United States is capable of putting a huge army on the field (in the Civil War, 3 million men served w/the Union) It just doesn't maintain a large peacetime army. That army could turn very large, very quickly. And if the US is alerted enough to go to war with Columbia, Britain will follow. In the short term, your land army would be about equal, but your economy just doesn't have anywhere near the heft of Britain and the United States. You might score victories in the short term, but the longer the war goes, the more the US and Royal Navies blockade your country and the larger their forces get.

Lighting Star: The United States is capable of putting a huge army on the field (in the Civil War, 3 million men served w/the Union) It just doesn't maintain a large peacetime army. That army could turn very large, very quickly. And if the US is alerted enough to go to war with Columbia, Britain will follow. In the short term, your land army would be about equal, but your economy just doesn't have anywhere near the heft of Britain and the United States. You might score victories in the short term, but the longer the war goes, the more the US and Royal Navies blockade your country and the larger their forces get.

I know i' loose, im not stupid :/

But I can ALSO raise a large army(up to 1.5-2 million), although it would mostly be weak militia. But THEN theres my favorite part....GUERRILLA WAR!!!! dun dun dunnnnnnnnn!. So, if the U.S./ Britain went to war with me the war would last around 6-14 months, my "departments"(Columbian term for states, like Venezuela, Panama, Columbia, Costa Rica, etc.) would rebel, and for as long as the British or whoever are occupyers there will be a Guerrila War, inflicting massive damage against the Brits and U.S.(which as you know, both armies even TODAY cant fully deal with an insurgency)

OOC> Are you still taking applications?

If so
Confederacy of Greater Islands
LOcation: Carribean Sea
Islands included (If no one else has already posted claim): Cuba, Jamaica, The Bahamas, Haiti, Puerto Rico, and Bermuda. (If this is too many thats okay I will decrease the number, I just wanted to make sure I had some land.)

Culture: Western with influences of indigenous peoples.

History: Became independent when the leaders of these nations banded together and choked the trade in the Carribean. In return for the reopening of ports granted independence. Not in high favor with the British empire due to smuggling. National capital in Jamaica, with the other islands retaining their former state capitals.

Economy: Based on taxes and tariffs collected by allowing other nations to use their ports accounts for about 30% GNP. Remainder from exports. Chief exports being rum, cigars, mollasses, and sugar. Plantations operated off tenant farmers. Slavery outlawed except in cases where one owes extreme debt, but is more akin to indentured service. In an attempt to control immigration, all immigrants require five years of indentured service along with other naturalization requirements before given citizenship.

Government: Oligarchy, based on Spartan system where two years of compulsary military service required for all men. Tax breaks given to those with less than two children.

OOC> Are you still taking applications?

If so
Confederacy of Greater Islands
LOcation: Carribean Sea
Islands included (If no one else has already posted claim): Cuba, Jamaica, The Bahamas, Haiti, Puerto Rico, and Bermuda. (If this is too many thats okay I will decrease the number, I just wanted to make sure I had some land.)

Culture: Western with influences of indigenous peoples.

History: Became independent when the leaders of these nations banded together and choked the trade in the Carribean. In return for the reopening of ports granted independence. Not in high favor with the British empire due to smuggling. National capital in Jamaica, with the other islands retaining their former state capitals.

Economy: Based on taxes and tariffs collected by allowing other nations to use their ports accounts for about 30% GNP. Remainder from exports. Chief exports being rum, cigars, mollasses, and sugar. Plantations operated off tenant farmers. Slavery outlawed except in cases where one owes extreme debt, but is more akin to indentured service. In an attempt to control immigration, all immigrants require five years of indentured service along with other naturalization requirements before given citizenship.

Government: Oligarchy, based on Spartan system where two years of compulsary military service required for all men. Tax breaks given to those with less than two children.

that might not work very well as all of those islands are colonies (except Haiti) at this point... however, the Confederacy (less Texas and Arkansas) and the Pacific Republic (a greater California with NV, WA, OR, ID, MT, and Alaska is available).. plus the US and Colombia are about to fight over them at some point, as might the Germans etc...

Thats where you are wrong. Belize has been Honduras Colombino for the last 57 years. Didnt you read my applications?(both 1880 and 1890.)?

I read it but assumed you meant Honduras (as in Spanish Honduras)

well we will deal with the war in the Caribbean when we get there I suppose, although the US would simply use naval superiority to isolate the islands, blockade your Caribbean ports, as well as the Pacific ones, wear your economy down while it trained the necessary army required to acheive its ends...

we aren't there yet though....

Texas will be watching Central America close, a unified Central America including Mexico would be a serious threat and Colombia moving into Mexico will definitely mean war.

Otherwise Texas watchs the events in Europe without a lot of interest, figuring its Europes problem (strong isolationist sentiment)

I read it but assumed you meant Honduras (as in Spanish Honduras)

Oh well, an honest mistake ;)

Oh, and Greater Islands, i own Puerto Rico

T'is my colony.

Indeed ... the Caribbean is pretty much occupied. The Pacific Republic is one of the best choices left, as would be, say, Brazil or Turkey (if you want to do some nice RP of struggling to survive).

Indeed ... the Caribbean is pretty much occupied. The Pacific Republic is one of the best choices left, as would be, say, Brazil or Turkey (if you want to do some nice RP of struggling to survive).

Expecially Brazil.

Heh heh heh heh heh...

I will take Brazil

Head of State: Allehandruz Santagio

Government: Still under control of the Portugese Viceroy, just independent of Portugese Imperialism.

Economy: Still based in the dying sugar plantation sysytem. Trying to get into trade, but inhibited by unstable economy. Instability caused by revolution.

Religon: Roman Catholic with influence from Africa and indigenous peoples.

Population: 50% of mixed origin, 25% Black, 15% Portugese, 10% Indigenous or other. Most money and land held in the hands of Portugese landowners.

Culture: Potugese with African and indigenous influence. Heavily rooted in the Church

*nods* I'll accept it, but at least rudimentary information on your land army and naval forces would be nice. That, and your population. While I don't have immediate access to Brazil's actual IRL population, given population growth, I'd roughly estimate it to probably be about 20 million, but growing rapidly, due to immigration.

I will take Brazil

Head of State: Allehandruz Santagio

Government: Still under control of the Portugese Viceroy, just independent of Portugese Imperialism.

Economy: Still based in the dying sugar plantation sysytem. Trying to get into trade, but inhibited by unstable economy. Instability caused by revolution.

Religon: Roman Catholic with influence from Africa and indigenous peoples.

Population: 50% of mixed origin, 25% Black, 15% Portugese, 10% Indigenous or other. Most money and land held in the hands of Portugese landowners.

Culture: Potugese with African and indigenous influence. Heavily rooted in the Church

how well do you know your Brazilian history? historically, the Brazilians gained their de facto independence when the King of Portugal fled there during the Napoleonic Wars and were legally independent by 1820.... after a brief republican period became the Empire of Brazil (and didn't free the slaves until 1869... last Western Nation to do so).... Also, Brazil, along with Argentina and Uruagy fought the bloodest war in Latin American history against Paraguay (Rio Plata War... definitely look that up) shortly after the American Civil War.... main economy at this point is rubber exports, plus sugar and other raw materials.... the White Portuguese and some Creoles run the country (aristocracy), with a vast mass of peasants, indians and urban poor.... but Brazil is the biggest and most powerful of all the Latin American countries, with a competent military (which generally stayed out of the business of government, something most of the other Latin American militaries had trouble doing) so it was an army, not a glorified police force.

Brazil, if you want to be a proactive Imperialist like the Europeans, I would suggest taking a good look at the Portugese colonies in Africa, plus the Azores... Portugal is very, very weak for most of the 19th Century and weaker still during the 20th Century.

And I doubt anyone would really worry about doing anything about it either.

The US is now officially sponsering Free Cuba and Free the Philippines committees (mostly the liberals who used to be abolitionists and who now want womens right to vote, prohibition and similar left wing causes of the era). This of course plays right into the hands of what the Federal government actually wants and builds up the ground swell that will allow for war.

Basically, the US is supplying just enough arms and covert assistance to make the whole thing reasonably creditable, so that revolutionary governments in Cuba and the Philippines can call for help so the US can move against Spain.

By the way, the US Navy is reinforcing its Pacific, Asiatic and South Atlantic squadrons even as this goes on, and putting together enough troops so at least an initial expedionary force can be sent of regular troops. This is being orchestrated by General Miles and Theodore Roosevelt, who basically orchestrated the actual Spanish American War.

Hearst and the other journalists are playing up the Spanish atrocity card as well, and cheerfully make things up if the story isn't exciting enough (isn't real history fun, they really did that too)...

Brazil, if you want to be a proactive Imperialist like the Europeans, I would suggest taking a good look at the Portugese colonies in Africa, plus the Azores... Portugal is very, very weak for most of the 19th Century and weaker still during the 20th Century.

And I doubt anyone would really worry about doing anything about it either.

Yes, but arent you forgetting something.. *cough* land-hungry empire with largest staning army in hemishpere *cough*

Yes, but arent you forgetting something.. *cough* land-hungry empire with largest staning army in hemishpere *cough*

not really, the worst jungle on the entire planet is the area along the Colombian/Venezuelan border with Brazil.... nobody is marching any kind of army through that. Brazil can navigate up the Amazon all the way to Peru, while you have no way except by sea to reach them. I suspect they are reasonably safe in Brazil.

not really, the worst jungle on the entire planet is the area along the Colombian/Venezuelan border with Brazil.... nobody is marching any kind of army through that. Brazil can navigate up the Amazon all the way to Peru, while you have no way except by sea to reach them. I suspect they are reasonably safe in Brazil.

Who said i would take THAT way? ;).

I have other routes(such as naval, I may go through Ecuador then Peru, or go through Guyana, Suriname, and French Guiana. Oh and dont forget my...


Guerrilla Forces!dun dun dunnnnnn....

Country Name: Russian Empire
Head Of State: Alexander Romanov II
Head of Government: Alexis Sergetov
Capital: Moscow

Pop: 107million
Languages: Russian(official), German, Turkish
Ethnicity: Russian 80%, Polish/German 8%, Turkish 7%, other 5%
Religion: Eastern Orthodox is practiced mainly by the russians, Roman Catholicism by the Poles, and the turks practice Islam.

Culture: depends on region it is an empire and given the communication of the time period the culture depends on the ethnicity of the locality.
Stability: Stable parlimentary government, there are some radical marxist groups but they dont pose a threat.
Economy: until very recently it had a crapola agricultural economy, now the government has instituted reforms and brought in foreign engineers and investors to industiralize the country. Industrialization is growing exponentially each year as is the rail system.

Army: About 500,000 soldiers with modern german made weapons including artillery. The standing army is only 500k and is mainly spread out along the borders and given a zone of control. Given enough time (2months?) the empire can conscript a several million man army. The russian army is well adapted to defensive operation and holds a distinct advantage when being invaded. Offensively their strength is the sheer numbers of replacements they have. The Army is moderately led but is not inept.
Navy: I dont know any numbes, if you have any knowledge offhand please post it. The navy has modern armoured crusiers and battleships as well as smaller craft and older crusiers.

bump

The Victorian Diamond Jubiliee is coming up soon.. the pinnacle of the Age..

Other fun stuff... China and Japan fight over Korea soon

we need a good naval battle soon so that there is a justification for building Dreadnoughts (historically it was the lessons learned from the Spanish American War and Russo - Japanese War that got Jackie Fisher thinking and led to the development of that ship in a rather record breaking schedule for that time or any other).

In 1895, John Holland finally figures out how to build a relatively practical submarine.... 5 years later, the first one is accepted by the US Navy. A good naval war will accelerate this too perhaps.

At this point, the nations that can actually produce steel are going to be the only real naval powers. That would be the Western Nations, plus Japan and Russia (although both of these nations buy a lot if not most (Japans case) of their ships from the US and Britian.

The US no longer allows the sale of warships to Colombia after its brutal suppression of the rebellion in Venezuela, however, it cheerfully sells to Japan and Brazil, as well as the European nations and Middle Eastern Nations that actually have a navy.

The Whites in Hawaii have overthrown the Queen (who was Polynesian) and are asking to be annexed by the US, which will cheerfully do so with this Administration.

we need a good naval battle soon so that there is a justification for building Dreadnoughts (historically it was the lessons learned from the Spanish American War and Russo - Japanese War that got Jackie Fisher thinking and led to the development of that ship in a rather record breaking schedule for that time or any other).

In 1895, John Holland finally figures out how to build a relatively practical submarine.... 5 years later, the first one is accepted by the US Navy. A good naval war will accelerate this too perhaps.

At this point, the nations that can actually produce steel are going to be the only real naval powers. That would be the Western Nations, plus Japan and Russia (although both of these nations buy a lot if not most (Japans case) of their ships from the US and Britian.

The US no longer allows the sale of warships to Colombia after its brutal suppression of the rebellion in Venezuela, however, it cheerfully sells to Japan and Brazil, as well as the European nations and Middle Eastern Nations that actually have a navy.

The Whites in Hawaii have overthrown the Queen (who was Polynesian) and are asking to be annexed by the US, which will cheerfully do so with this Administration.

OOC: Buy ironclads? HO HO HO!

We make them, laddie! Of course, we do so by burning down rebel cities and using the metal we find from the wreckage we make the ships! We also use the rebels to build the ships before we throw them into the sea with rocks tied on their legs and their arms bound.

OOC: Buy ironclads? HO HO HO!

We make them, laddie! Of course, we do so by burning down rebel cities and using the metal we find from the wreckage we make the ships! We also use the rebels to build the ships before we throw them into the sea with rocks tied on their legs and their arms bound.

by 1890s, steel warships are faster, better armored (for less weight) and have better guns... your ironclads are as obsolete as a world war II destroyer would be compared to a Spruance class...... better find somebody with a steel industry to buy from, or build one yourself (although your area doesn't have much iron ore)