NationStates Jolt Archive

THE TEMPORAL ACCORD

This accord is constituted under Indran Law with respect to sections 152 through 176 of the Temporal Research Commission of Indra Prime Charter. As the primary auspicious leader in the field of Temporal Research and the Technological Development of acceptable devices that utilize the unique properties of the Space/Time Continuum for the purposes of research and defense, The Temporal Research Commission is hereby authorized to offer the following treaty, which is to be known as the Temporal Accord, for the confirmation and approval of third parties to develop technological advancements in the field of Temporal Mechanics. All third parties who express an interest in procuring the technological ability to develop Temporal Devices must agree, unconditionally, to the terms and conditions set out by the Temporal Accord. Any third party who fails to comply with the specifications set out by the Temporal Accord, will be subject to face immediate retaliatory actions, identified further down, by, and not restricted to, the leader in the field of Temporal Mechanics and Technological Development of acceptable devices that utilize the unique properties of the Space/Time Continuum for the purpose of research and defense, the Temporal Research Commission of Indra Prime. Full descriptions of response actions are outlined in later articles of the Temporal Accord. All parties who agree to the terms and conditions of the Temporal Accord hereby agree to strictly enforce the rules and regulations set out by the Temporal Accord both on signatory parties as well as third parties who illegally make attempts to develop the technology necessary to create devices that can affect the Space/Time Continuum.

SECTION I: DEFINITIONS OF TERMS USED IN THE TEMPORAL ACCORD

In this section, terms that are commonly used throughout the Temporal Accord, but that are not in common vernacular, are defined here. To prevent any misunderstanding, the terms are listed alphabetically and will contain a detailed description of the meaning used.

BackStep – A Temporal Incursion that is caused by natural or artificial means that results in the displacement of person(s), ship(s), planet(s), or any other object. The displacement would include but not be limited to movement into the future, movement into the past, movement into alternate timelines, etc.

Device (Temporal) – Any artificial construction that allows for a user to observe, manipulate, detonate or otherwise control the flow of Time and/or the Primary Timeline or its subsidiary possible Timelines. This includes but is not limited to Shielding, Weaponry, Sensors, Power Plants, Displacement Drives, etc.

Fissure/Rift (Temporal) – A tear in the fabric of the Space/Time Continuum that has a Temporal Displacement and may include Spatial Displacement.

Incursion (Temporal) – Any act of manipulation of the Timeline, which would include but not be limited to, BackSteps, Erasures (Temporal), Creation of Paradoxical situations, etc.

Multiverse – The collection of the universes all ties in through the unified Space/Time Continuum.

Paradox (Temporal) – The Temporal Anomaly that generally causes the most damage to the Space/Time Continuum, usually brought into play artificially through actions taken by lifeforms manipulating the Space/Time Continuum. This includes, but is not limited to:
- The Dali Paradox (a.k.a. The Melting Clock Effect) – A Temporal Fissure that slows the passage of time to a gradual halt.
- The Pogo Paradox (a.k.a. The Causality Loop) – An act of interference to prevent an event that triggers the same event.
- The Grandfather Paradox – A BackStep event that results in the prevention of a crucial event that would allow for the BackStep, thus preventing the BackStep, thus returning the Timeline back to its original form where the BackStep event can take place.

Primary Timeline – The normal flow of time everyone is aware of. The Primary Timeline flows in one direction and maintains a constant pace, without artificial interference.

Primary Unit – An object or person from the Primary Timeline.

Secondary (Tertiary, etc) Timeline – Deviations of the Primary Timeline that are resultant of different decisions made at decision points along the Primary Timeline. At any one instance, an infinite number of Timelines diverge from the Primary Timeline though remain Unrealized Realities until a Primary Unit crosses the multidimensional plane into a parallel timeline.

Shielding (Temporal) – A field of energy, similar to normal defense shields, but tuned specifically to deflect or absorb Temporal Energy from natural or artificial sources. The level of strength of the shield determines what the shield is capable of defending against. Does not protect from conventional weapons.

Space/Time Continuum – The 11 dimensional location of the Multiverse that contains the universe Humanity resides in. Is the underlying layer of reality that everything is apart of. Time and Space are linked. If one is affected, so is the other.

Temporal – Of or relating to Time

Temporal Mechanics – The Study of the Space/Time Continuum by organic or non-organic lifeforms, which would/could result in the creation of technical ability to manipulate the Space/Time Continuum according to the desires and actions of said lifeform.

Third Party – A group that exists outside the primary targeted group. Relates to the events as a possible source for future relations. Also considered to be a Neutral Nation that could be affected by the Temporal Accord though not directly tied with the Accord.

Weapon (Temporal) – Any device that is used in an offensive or defensive capacity that utilizes temporal technology that allows for, but is not limited to, Total Erasure, Partial Erasure, Temporal Suspension, etc.

Abbreviations of Terms Used in The Temporal Accord

PT – Primary Timeline
PU – Primary Unit
ST – Secondary (Tertiary, etc.) Timeline
STC – Space/Time Continuum
TRCIP – The Temporal Research Commission of Indra Prime


SECTION II: ARTICLES OF THE TEMPORAL ACCORD

This section contains a complete list of the Articles that must be followed by all nations who desire to be or who are currently are signatory nations of the Temporal Accord. The Articles were written to ensure the stability of the STC and to prevent any nation from unraveling history through ignorance or stupidity. Any infraction of the following Articles will result in the immediate declaration of war and intervention by, and not limited to the Indra Prime Temporal Incursion Fleet. Responses to Infractions of any Article under Section II of the Temporal Accord will be listed under Section III of the Temporal Accord.


ARTICLE I
No nation shall be advanced by means of more advanced nations until the nation in question has reached a point where it is found they are capable of dealing with the technology responsibly. Even then, the nation in question will only be able to have the more experienced society as consultants, not as caregivers. The Advanced nation will not be allowed to give the younger the boost to a similar level of technical ability, due to the ignorance of the younger nation. The young nation must develop the technology on their own to allow them to grow wiser while still developing the technology. Any artificial subsidizing of technology would put the younger nation in the position of being able to damage the Space/Time Continuum beyond the ability of the Temporal Research Commission of Indra Prime to repair. The only exception will be if the TRC has determined that intervention is absolutely critical in the matter at hand. In that case the intervention will be monitored and made sure that no problems arose.

ARTICLE II
Nations with Temporal Ability must keep that ability within the confines of their own nation. For the protection of the Space/Time Continuum, the smaller number of nations with the ability to proactively affect the fabric of the STC will greatly limit the possible problems that may arise from Temporal Research.

ARTICLE III
Nations with fledgling Temporal Mechanic Research and Development Departments will be limited in what they will be able to build until such time they have decidedly earned the respect and the responsibility to take on more advanced avenues of research. The leaders in the field will make the decision as to when they have grown in maturity to the point where they can handle such responsibility. This is to serve as an additional safeguard to protect the STC.

ARTICLE IV
Once nations reach a certain Technical Expertise level in the field of Temporal Mechanics, where they are deemed to be Seasoned and mature with the technology, they will be brought into the higher echelon, where more responsibility will be added to that nation’s already standing responsibilities to the STC. At that point they will be allowed to develop the more advanced Temporal Technology that would have the potential ability to seriously affect the STC. At that point, the nation in question will have earned the respect in the field and will be aware of the danger they are taking on.

ARTICLE V
The signatory nations of the Temporal Accord will work together to prevent debilitating paradoxes throughout the STC, which would undoubtedly cripple the countless societies in existence. Any non-signatory nation, who does not comply with the rules of the Temporal Accord, will be confronted by those signatory nations who have sworn to protect the sanctity of the Space/Time Continuum.

ARTICLE VI
The development of Temporal Shielding above Level 5 will be restricted to those nations who have proven themselves in the responsibility of having the Temporal Technology. Any unauthorized nation who attempts to develop Level 5 Temporal Shielding or higher will be countered with the full forces of the Temporal Incursion Fleet of Indra Prime. Level 5 Temporal Shielding and above create imperfections in the STC that must be accounted for when the Temporal Research Commission must make a correction to the STC. If a Level 5 Shield is discovered, immediate action will take place and the source will be eliminated.

ARTICLE VII
The development of Total Erasure Temporal Weaponry is completely forbidden. A TETW would immediately cause multiple catastrophic paradoxes once used, as a TETW would completely eliminate an object from the Past, Present and Future. The only type of Temporal Erasure Weapon that nations will be allowed to construct will be, at most, a Class 10 Temporal Disruptor. This disruptor will ‘push’ the target object out of the STC and scramble the quantum signature of the object, effectively eliminating the object. It will not affect the Past, which is the most dangerous.

ARTICLE VIII
Nations who agree to the Temporal Accord and are given clearance to build Temporal Technology, they immediately agree to assist the Temporal Research Commission of Indra Prime in the event of an STC level disaster. The nations who lack the higher level shielding will be unable to affect much change, but they will follow the orders given by the TRCIP or whoever is in command of the situation. In the event of major Temporal Disasters, orders will need followed with alacrity to prevent any permanent damage to the STC.

ARTICLE IX
Any attempt to gain access to the Temporal Technology and then turn your allegiances against the goals of the other nations who have signed, will be met with swiftly and harshly. There will always be a nation with greater Temporal Abilities than you, so any attempt at deception will most likely result in a severe destruction of your forces.

ARTICLE X
Nations who grow in their ability to control Temporal Technology and master their ability to use it, will be requested and required to begin to monitor the PT more and more as they become more seasoned. After that they will expand into the rest of the Multiverse to monitor that all Unrealized Realities do not pose a threat to the PT. Any indication of dangerous UR that may intersect with the PT, the nation will need to contact the TRCIP if they are unaware. This is to prevent the timelines from intertwining and creating more problems than the TRCIP can handle.

ARTICLE XI
Nations who sign the Temporal Accord will be required to monitor the STC for any disturbances that may include Temporal Fissures, Temporal Rifts, Inversion Loops, or any problem that may pose a threat to the STC.

ARTICLE XII
Nations other than designated Senior Temporal Nations will be forbidden from building warships with Temporal BackStep ability. To prevent any predestination Causality Loops and Grandfather Paradoxes only Senior Temporal Nations will be allowed to maintain a military fleet of Temporal Ships, similar to the Temporal Incursion Fleet of Indra Prime. These vessels are only to be used in extreme situations (i.e. another nation sends warships into the past, by somehow bypassing the Temporal Accord) to eliminate the ships and restore the natural order of the PT.

ARTICLE XIII
Nations with Intermediate Temporal Ability will be allowed to construct Research Vessels that will be able to BackStep to view the events of the Past. To prevent an infraction of Article I, no nation will be allowed to go into the future for any reason, except for a one-way trip. Any attempt to go to the future will be met with extreme hostility from the TIF, which will result in the destruction of the offender. Nations who BackStep into the past will be allowed to move about freely, provided they do not break Article I, which would be done even by a simple discovery. No past nation can know about the presence of a future vessel as it will contaminate the timeline and would result in penalty.

ARTICLE XIV
In times of possible attack by cause of, in relation to, or by proxy, of temporal technology, unorthodox methods may be used to diffuse the situation by offering NON MILITARY HARDWARE or SOFTWARE of no greater than level 5. This offer must be approved by the leader in the field of Temporal Mechanics, Indra Prime. Despite the obvious stength in military capacity this Accord allows for, peace is always the best option.

ARTICLE XV
If new regulations are identified as important, they can be added later as per this Article.


SECTION III: CONSEQUENCES FOR VIOLATING THE ARTICLES

This section is to outline the consequences should anyone violate the rules laid out by the Temporal Accord. The Temporal Accord will be run with the policy of No Tolerance.

- If a nation violates the Temporal Prime Directive, and interferes with the development of another nation, Temporally, Militarily, Economically, or Politically the nation will be immediately charged with Intent to Subvert, and a state of war will immediately be declared against the offending party. The offender will face a fleet of Temporal Incursion Warships and will have to relinquish their Temporal Abilities or face summary destruction.
- Any nation who attempts to cross the nations who are signatories of the Temporal Accord and gain temporal technology, will face a fleet of Temporal Incursion Warships.
- If a nation attempts to cause a STC level disaster, the Temporal Incursion Fleet will first see to the protection of the STC, then immediately turn its entire force against the nation who instigated the paradox or Temporal Fissure.



SIGNATORY NATIONS
The Temporal Research Commission of Indra Prime
The Grand Atheist Empire of The Mindset
The United Fascist States of Central Facehuggeria
The Nomadic Peoples of Aegeus
The Colony of Sskiss
The People's Republic of Metallinauts
The Grand Theocratic Empire of Penguenia
The Federated Stellar Republics of Wormia
The Eternal Empire of Jordaxia
The Demonic Territories of Jangle Jangle Ridge
The AI States of The Emperor Fenix
The Dominion of Tappee
The Collective of Warhaven
The Parliament Funkadelic of Lunatic Retard Robots
The Dominion of Crystal Palais
The Dominion of ArchNemisis
The Excessively Torturous Kabal of Commorargh
The Dominion of Foolish Pesants
The Jingoistic States of Al-Imvadjah
The Constitutional Republic of Tekania
The Unified Worlds of Siesatia
The United States of The Fedral Union
The Communist State of East Coast Federation
The Protectorate of Kormanthor
The Star Realm of Five Civilized Nations
The Orbital Constructs of Rinceweed
The Technocracy of Sharina
The Noble Commonwealth of Veredia
The Empire of Balrogga
The Interplanetary Republic of DemonLordEnigma
The Socialist Republic of Mirfak
The Communist Protectorate of Xenonier
The Dimensonal Grand Republic of Gaian Ascendancy
The Incorporated Systems of Ald Rhun
The Hive State of Otagia
The Principality of Drakhen
The Democratic Republic of Dratheria
The Imperial Republic of CoreWorlds
The Imperialistic Archonate of Godular
The Mass Opiate of The Resi Corporation
The Star Imperium of Flaming Souls
The Conglomeration of Northrop-Grumman Corp.
The Galactic Hegemony of Neo-Mekanta
The Colony of New Sovietia
The Dimensional Imperium of Ageaol
The Federation of UNSpaceCommand
The Manticorian Alliance of Mini Miehm
The Imperial Nycarian Grand Navy of SeaQuest
The Futuristic Planet of Nova Bazalonia
The Anasarii Concordance of Naggaroth

The United Federation of Germanische Zustande (Germanic Worlds) has become aware that it is using Temporal Technology. We wish to add our signature to this Accord to prevent any repurcussions that could occur for our development of said Technology.

Due to the fact that we have eastbalished our selves as a nation that has the ablity move through time we will review the accord.

After an internal debate we will see about signing the accord

ooc: here a reference to our temporal abilities
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=314693

We will add our signature to this in the intrests of unexplored possibilities.

upon reveiw of the charter we find it runs in conjuction with the goal of Saecula Seaculbrum (Aka The SS), Tappee Temporal protection Agency.

Therefore, we would ask that we be added as a signing member of the Accord.

Also as a result, the SS will work with all other members of the accords to ensure that the timeline is maintianed.

Welcome back Indra. Hmm this has given me an idea. Shivans with temporal ability.

You do and your precious Shivans will be immediately slaughtered by not only the full force of the Indran Temporal Incursion Fleet, but the combined fleets of those signatory nations of the Temporal Accord. You have my word on that.

We acknowledge the agreement by the nations who have voiced their desires to sign the Accord. This agreement will hold you accountable for the actions you nation does or does not take. It is as much for your protection as well as ours.

While LRR has only very basic time-travel capabilities (hey, this hat's from uncle fred in the future!), we would like to add our name to the accord.

We thank you for signing the accord, as it will bring additional stability to the universe.

The Dali Paradox sounds like it could be produced Naturally, with the sheer power of a black hole. In which, time slows down around certin areas. Oh, and The chaos theory, Do a ton of study into that, or watch 'The butterfly Effect' as that has the general idea.

I Will sign this, I have a lot of experience with the STC and things of that level. We already have designed a 'temporal Carrier' which is equiped with the fruits of our labors in that field, but will call all of them off duty, until the time the councel deems it acceptable to allow us to use them. It is armed with temporal shielding, and Temporal Disruptors, as are the Fighters.

Oh, and I have heard that high level temporal shielding, can sometimes create really bad problems, like, I read somewhere, that a nation activated temporal shielding, and it appeared in the past, present, and Future, in that exact spot. That could be used to advantage a side in a conflict that hadn't happined yet, or happined many hundreds of years ago. Does your Temporal Shielding Accord take this into acount?

DGNT will not be signing this treaty based on the fact that you cant change the past because you have already changed it.
This does not mean that we should recklessly delve into the past for personal reasons, temporal travel is naturally heavily restricted.

While Crystal Palais doesn't have any technologies that directly affect causality, the population has a native intuition so far as the timeline goes and would be acutely aware of any changes near them. Due to that, Crystal Palais will also sign this treaty.

(Mostly random precognition and postcognition also seems to be something the citizendry is capable of, and it's played a slight role in a few of their technological breakthroughs in the past, but normally that's something that's discouraged anyway. But I digress...)

I Will sign this, I have a lot of experience with the STC and things of that level. We already have designed a 'temporal Carrier' which is equiped with the fruits of our labors in that field, but will call all of them off duty, until the time the councel deems it acceptable to allow us to use them. It is armed with temporal shielding, and Temporal Disruptors, as are the Fighters.

Oh, and I have heard that high level temporal shielding, can sometimes create really bad problems, like, I read somewhere, that a nation activated temporal shielding, and it appeared in the past, present, and Future, in that exact spot. That could be used to advantage a side in a conflict that hadn't happined yet, or happined many hundreds of years ago. Does your Temporal Shielding Accord take this into acount?

First of all, it takes many decades to develop the temporal technology that would allow true observation and/or manipulation of the STC. You are way too young to have that kind of technology. We have spent our entire lifetime creating the technical ability we have today, and no nation can match us in that field as we are the ones who pioneered it. And your ideas about the STC are incorrect. It is much much more complicated than you realize. (In RL I am a theoretical physicist that has a great deal more knowledge about this subjet than anyone here.) The Temporal Shielding does not cause a ship to exist in the past, present and future simultaneously. Temporal Shielding, in layman's terms, removes the effects of time or changes in the timeline from the particular object that is emitting the field. Your 'carriers' will be considered to be fake due to the very tenuous nature of the technology you supposedly proport. There are less than a handful of nations that have the scientific expertise to construct devices sophisticated enough to create temporal shielding, weaponry, or displacement manifolds(ie engines). When you get to a point where you have a reasonable population, then you can return and develop that technology but along the lines of the Temporal Accord. A nation of 109 Million people do not have the necessary fiscal material to develop and maintain technology of this magnitude. Development of Temporal Technology is on an exponential scale. Each level a nation increases in development in the field of Temporal Mechanics, the difficulty in maintaining it increases by the next factor. Taking the next step is an additional step that is required which also entails another jump in the factor of difficulty. We specifically maintain a strict guideline on the development of Temporal Technology. No nation can pass the fifth level without the acknowledgement of the Temporal Research Commission to determine whether they are responsible enough to handle the technology they are going after.
We are in the position of leadership because we are the foremost leader in the field of Temporal Mechanics and we understand completely the kinds of problems that can occur when a young, ignorant nation attempts to wield such technology. One screw up and the Temporal Research Commission may have years of cleaning up to do to restore the STC to its former self.
The Dali Paradox cannot be produced naturally especially with relation to a black hole. The temporal discontinuity that exists as an object approaches the event horizon is called the Time Dialation Effect. Basically the intense curvature of the Space/Time Continuum around the singuarity causes intense gravitational forces, and according to the theory of relativity time and space slow down because they are interconnected. The closer you get to the event horizon, the slower time goes. The Dali Paradox is artifically generated and can be disasterous if not corrected in an expedient manner by our forces.

Due to the effect of a crystal that grows naturally in the center of Archnemisians brains our bodys are nexuses of temporal energy. As a result we can see and avoid temporal paradoxes before they happen. Therefore I ask that we be allowed to sign this treaty.

Axis Nova will sign this treaty.

Despite having nowhere near the level of technology to even consider time travel at this time, we feel it is best to cover our bases, so to speak; this would give us guidelines if at sometime in the future we aquired or developed such technology.

Axis Nova

Fine, I withdraw my signature. Oh, and the carriers are very real, I aquired the tech from another nation. We just modified it to work with our power systems.

Seeya

EDIT: As of right now, said carriers are back on active duty.

Fine, I withdraw my signature. Oh, and the carriers are very real, I aquired the tech from another nation.

Who?

The Excessively Torturous Kabal of Commorargh wishes to abide by the terms of this accord, in hopes of promoting a sense of responsiblity with Temporal weaponry.

[By the way, I am a ressurected December 03 nation.]

The Government of Foolish Pesants would have agreed to this, but we recently recived an Official Government document adressed to this Issue.
It reads as follows;

-

Upon delivery of this, you should be aware of the Temporal Accord signing, whislt policy dictates that we may as well sign that course of action is not acceptable. In the years to come time travel will become a reality for us, and we will exploit it readily. Whilst we don't break any of the Accords protocols, we come close, but since its a self conained consistent loop they've got nothing. They do however, whinge like hell, blah blah this, wha wha that, as such I send this to inform you not to sign. For purposes of proof to the claim, I enclose a sample of my Genome and plans for Atomic thruster technology.

Reilock Coratha
High Commander of Foolish Pesants

-

Given this, we must decline membership to your little club of Time Cops.

Reilock Coratha
High Commander of Foolish Pesants

OOC: A theoritical theorist, I understand completly now why nobody can replace Indra Prime as the leader of this feild. Heck in Real life I am just a budding Author who plans on writing stories that contain both Science Fiction and Fantasy at the same time. I bow to your greater knowledge in this feild.

Actually its Theoretical Physics that I study, but even still, its about the same as Theoretical Theorist. :)

The Government of Foolish Pesants would have agreed to this, but we recently recived an Official Government document adressed to this Issue.
It reads as follows;

-

Upon delivery of this, you should be aware of the Temporal Accord signing, whislt policy dictates that we may as well sign that course of action is not acceptable. In the years to come time travel will become a reality for us, and we will exploit it readily. Whilst we don't break any of the Accords protocols, we come close, but since its a self conained consistent loop they've got nothing. They do however, whinge like hell, blah blah this, wha wha that, as such I send this to inform you not to sign. For purposes of proof to the claim, I enclose a sample of my Genome and plans for Atomic thruster technology.

Reilock Coratha
High Commander of Foolish Pesants

-

Given this, we must decline membership to your little club of Time Cops.

Reilock Coratha
High Commander of Foolish Pesants

This is not a little club of Time Cops. This is an interstellar agreement to protect the Space/Time Continuum under our leadership. If you had any clue as to the danger of the technology you say you will be researching, then you would think twice about developing it. We abhor the use of temporal technology, even by ourselves, but we force ourselves to take the initiative and protect the STC from any ignorant nation who decides to make a small manipulation that has the ability to grow along an exponential curve to a point that even we may not be able to stop. Whether you sign it or not, nations who attempt to develop this technology will be met with unconditional hostility from the single most temporally advanced nation. If you sign however, you will be accepting the responsibility of the actions you will choose, and when you are ready, you will be able to develop more advanced technology as time progresses.

Fine, I withdraw my signature. Oh, and the carriers are very real, I aquired the tech from another nation. We just modified it to work with our power systems.

Seeya

EDIT: As of right now, said carriers are back on active duty.

You being able to acquire this technology from another nation who has this tech is absurd. We monitor all temporal activities and nations who have the technical ability to build temporal carriers and warships, and believe you me, those nations are less than a handful and we know every single one. Your carriers are a joke and will not be accepted. Again, you are too young to possess that technical ability and will not be considered to have it.

Whether you sign it or not, nations who attempt to develop this technology will be met with unconditional hostility from the single most temporally advanced nation.

"unconditional hostility" Hm... so if any nation attempts to develope time travel technology without being part of your treaty, they will be attacked regardless of what they do with it, including nothing.

I'll make a note of this...

Foriegn Minister Mick Lakely, Iuthian Diplomatic Corps.

Hmm... I got this TG from Indra Prime.

This is just a word of warning. Do not attempt to pass yourself off as a nation that has temporal abilities. A nation of your size that says they have that technology will be considered by most nations, a godmod. I believe if you want to study that technology in the future, you learn who the leaders are in that field and you also read up on the Temporal Accord. If you have any quesions about this subject, I will be more than happy to answer them for you.

I am a modern age nation within the 2000 - 2030 timeline. He must have mistook me for another nation.

I don't have any temporal thingys, or the capabilities of Temporal travel just yet. I do plan on becoming a Future Age nation later on, because I believe in gradual RP development of my nation. I want to RP the development of my nation through the 21st century, 22nd century, 23rd century, and so forth.

However, if I do decide to develop temporal technology, I will only use it for the following reasons / goals:

1. Bring back extinct species from the past to the present time. Example: Dinosaurs, Wooly Mammoths, Sabretooth tigers, etc. I also might use it to take victims of murder and such out of the past to the present to revive them while keeping the illusion of dead bodies and such in the past (Still debating with myself whether to do this or not).

2. Prevent any destruction of Sharina, due to armageddon asteroids, bloodthirsty warmongers using planet killers, preventing extinctions such as all Sharina people die from viruses / plaque / biological and chemical warfare, etc.

3. In extreme cases, I would use temporal technology to prevent invasion of Sharina by nations who desire nothing but complete destruction or ruination of my nation.


I have absouletely no plans of using temporal technology to change the past (except when Sharina is being invaded) and I have no plans on using that technology in "attack" type of warfare. I also don't intend to travel into the future except for extreme circumstances (preventing invasion of Sharina).

Just letting you know my intentions and beliefs regarding time tech.

I also might be willing to help keep my universe's timeline clean. However, how can one nation or a group of nations police the whole multi-verse? Trillions or Googillions of parallel universes? Impossible.

Sharina - your three probable uses for temporal tech seem very likely to cause paradoxes and more normal problems for your nation.

Al-Imvadjah is looking into counters for temporal weapons and shields, as this reasearch may fall under a part of the Accord, I have decided to sign.I currently have no temporal technology of any kind, however I am hoping to develop ways to defeat temporal shields. This might require basic temporal tech.

I think that is Anti-Time.
(this is real, it's gotta be. I saw it on star trek once. Everything on star trek is at least a possibility.)

Sharina - your three probable uses for temporal tech seem very likely to cause paradoxes and more normal problems for your nation.

Al-Imvadjah is looking into counters for temporal weapons and shields, as this reasearch may fall under a part of the Accord, I have decided to sign.I currently have no temporal technology of any kind, however I am hoping to develop ways to defeat temporal shields. This might require basic temporal tech.

Let me ask you...

How would brining extinct species DNA from the past into the present create paradoxes? I would only be bringing blood samples of dinosaurs and whatnot from the past to present, then clone / regenerate these species in the present time.


Second, I can understand how preventing my own destruction through temporal means could create paradoxes. However, if my nation's survival keeps a World War III or a Galactic War from happening, and prevents billions of people from dying then it will be worth it.

Also, I could simply load up several ships just before invasion or whatever, then have them go into an parallel universe and into the past on an unhabitated Earth to start anew again. Then use time tech to assure my survival in that new universe (if invaders try to cross parallel universes).

We of the Human Imperial Republic of Industrial Experiment refuse to submit to the tyrannical impositions of Indra Prime. Though we are still working through the needed calculations when it comes to forming a wormhole that would allow us to reach through time, we believe we will reach this point sometime in the relatively near future. However, we will not give in to your dictatorial attempts at controlling other nations. Should you decide to attack us and destroy us, it will only serve as proof that you are a greedy, corrupt, and throroughly despicable nation which wishes nothing more than to control one of the mightiest technologies possible for yourself.

We are an independent nation, and we exist to practice our own soveriegnty. We will not have some trumped up nation telling us what to do.

We are not attempting to hoarde the market in this sense. All we are trying to do is make nations aware of the implications of the technology they may or are interested in developing. When we first started out, we made mistakes, some grievous. When we were first exprimenting with the timeline, we screwed things up almost to the point of no return. However, after a long time in a specially designed ship that remained out of the effects of the changes to the timeline(The precursor to the Temporal Incursion Vessels), we were able to correct the problems we made and returned the timeline back to normal with a deviation error of less than 0.0000325. With that incident we learned some very valuable lessons. No nation should manipulate the STC for experimentation. Since that incident, almost a milennia ago, we have been working on developing a way to monitor the STC, and we came up with the Temporal Observatory and the Temporal Sensors that now are on the Temporal Incursion Fleet. We can scan the STC as your nations can scan space. We can monitor when nations are growing to a point when they can develop the technology. We are trying to protect the nations of this realm by creating this Treaty. For the time being, it would be under our leadership that nations would be able to develop the temporal technology, but as nations get older and wiser, they would be able to build ships and weapons that would be similar to our own, providing they were responsible enough to handle such a burden. We dont want the burden all by ourselves. Truth be told, we despise the use of our technical ability. But the Fates, it seems, has decided that we protect the STC as long as we can until we can get asistance from nations who can help us bear the burden of protecting this task.
Those hotheaded nations who refuse to sign the treaty show the rest of us that they are unwilling to protect the one thing that has the ability to destroy us all. If we fail, and the STC is damaged, destroyed, or in so many paradoxes that we cannot fix, every nation everywhere will be affected by the changes immediately. Take it for what its worth. We are not dictatorial, nor do we wish to become that way. all we want is to ensure the survival of our way of life.

So your pig-headed threats to any nation outside your treaty that develops temporal technology and your attempts at controlling soveriegn nations outside your jurasdiction aren't attempts at establishing a universe where you hold all the toys and the rest of us are only allowed to play when you say?

We are not dictatorial, nor do we wish to become that way. all we want is to ensure the survival of our way of life.

But you choose who is reasponcable and who isn't... if they are not trustable or mearly don't want to bow to your treaty and your judgement, you advocate unprovoked attacks against them. Which makes us instinctly lack trust in your nation...

Ohwell, maybe one day we will have the technology, we are in space afterall and there are theories regarding worm holes and the such... though I'm inclined to think this whole "time travel" nonesense is little more then a ploy to attack nations as you please.

Foriegn Minister Mick Lakely, Iuthian Diplomatic Corps.

I wouldn't use any time tech for destructive purposes. I'll only use them to bring back extinct specie and dead people (grab DNA from their bodies in graves or ash jars and bring them to my current time.... then clone them to give them new chance at life).

Second, the only times I will use time tech in warfare is to prevent ANY unprovoked invasion of my nation. If someone decides to send 109821726765 nukes, planet killers, etc. aganist me, I WILL use time tech to prevent that from happening.

Basically, I'd insert my own people as members of the invading government or military commanders (I'll use clones of them) then send them back in time to before the invasion. Then I'll have my double agents force the government to change plans (like force a "no" vote to invasion of me) or have my cloned "enemy general" send the whole invasion fleet into a sun or black hole.

I will not meddle in the timelines of any foreign nations, or my nation except in the instances I stated above, as well as prevent any assasination or ruination of my own democratic government. I also will use time travel to prevent civil wars in my own nation, so no communist, dictatorship, or undesirable factions can overthrow my democratic government. I don't want any Hitlers coming up in my nation.

These are pretty sensible and fair to me. I won't F*** around with anyone else's timelines or pasts.

Sharina:
People like you are the reason the accord was made if I am not mistaken.
All of your "reasons" for using temporal technology are insane.
What if there was no accord and Indra just decided to go back in time and destroy your first ships and race? Without restrictions nations wouldn't lose wars as they could go back in time and destroy whatever challenged them as it was being built.
Btw the reasons you mentioned would "F***" with other peoples timelines immensely.

Iuthia:
"But you choose who is reasponcable and who isn't... if they are not trustable or mearly don't want to bow to your treaty and your judgement, you advocate unprovoked attacks against them. Which makes us instinctly lack trust in your nation..."
Also, if I am not mistaken, Indra does not attack people that aren't in the treaty unless they threaten the STC. He is the leader in the field, and with that he should be able to choose who is reasonable. I do not know how many nations Indra has attacked because of the accord but I am sure not as many as you imply.

Will any other people that post please read the accord first and consider what it would be like if temporal technology ran rampant.

Also, if I am not mistaken, Indra does not attack people that aren't in the treaty unless they threaten the STC. He is the leader in the field, and with that he should be able to choose who is reasonable. I do not know how many nations Indra has attacked because of the accord but I am sure not as many as you imply.

Will any other people that post please read the accord first and consider what it would be like if temporal technology ran rampant.

Ah... but if I remember correctly, they claim any nation who is not part of the STC and yet building their own temporal technology to be dangerous.

Shall I enlighten you?

Whether you sign it or not, nations who attempt to develop this technology will be met with unconditional hostility from the single most temporally advanced nation.

I'm not questioning nations currently under attack... though to be honest I would question any nation which threatens others so lightly. The above quote was in responce to a nation wishing to develope the technology but to use their own judgement as to it's us.

I don't care if the man claims he is god himself, from what I've seen I do not trust him to "judge" nation as they clearly lack the diplomatic skills to do so responcably... as for their actual capability to manipulate time? Who knows... to be honest I'm just not happy that nations are so willing to threaten over theoretical science.

Please reread my post and then smack yourself for failing to comprehend it.

Please reread my post and then smack yourself for failing to comprehend it.

Meh... I'm ranting in general and if you paid attention to my posts you'd know that I don't actually think any nation can really alter the timeline here. So I see this is as a rather poor reason for wars to be declared over... and my complaint is the threats of war.

So given that I don't beleive any nation can actually damage the time line and given that I feel that Indra Prime is an aggressive nation, the above post was my reply.

I won't smack myself on the head because I happen to beleive my post accurately covers my dislike for this.

Will any other people that post please read the accord first and consider what it would be like if temporal technology ran rampant.


Actually, it's quite interesting. Most of what my (limited) experiments in temporal dabbling have shown that history is pre-ordained, and you can't change history, merely because trying to do so will only fulfill it. Now, if some tin-pot dictator wishes to tell me what to do with my own technology, I'll spit in his face and do as I please.

I assume most of you remember the uranium barrier your civilizations had to have faced sometime in the past; would you have liked it if some country had come along and said they get to decide who gets nuclear weapons?

^hahha That is really funny if you think about that subject in real life.

Anyways Industrial post on your exploration thread.

Sharina:
People like you are the reason the accord was made if I am not mistaken.
All of your "reasons" for using temporal technology are insane.
What if there was no accord and Indra just decided to go back in time and destroy your first ships and race? Without restrictions nations wouldn't lose wars as they could go back in time and destroy whatever challenged them as it was being built.
Btw the reasons you mentioned would "F***" with other peoples timelines immensely.

Iuthia:
"But you choose who is reasponcable and who isn't... if they are not trustable or mearly don't want to bow to your treaty and your judgement, you advocate unprovoked attacks against them. Which makes us instinctly lack trust in your nation..."
Also, if I am not mistaken, Indra does not attack people that aren't in the treaty unless they threaten the STC. He is the leader in the field, and with that he should be able to choose who is reasonable. I do not know how many nations Indra has attacked because of the accord but I am sure not as many as you imply.

Will any other people that post please read the accord first and consider what it would be like if temporal technology ran rampant.


First, HOW can bringing back DNA from dinosaurs, extinct species, and dead people alter the past? It won't cause any paradoxes because I will not be raising them in the past. I will only be raising them in the present.

Its not like bringing something back from the future. I'll merely be bringing back stuff from the PAST, which is already done and finished. How can simply bringing back DNA from the past destroy a timeline?


Second, how would preventing an invasion cause paradoxes? If I cloned or created a perfect doppleganger of the enemy invasion commander, then sent him into the past to a point just before the invasion. Then I had my doppleganger send the whole invasion fleet into a sun or black hole and have it all destroyed.

Sharina will survive. The invaders would die. They would die either way, during the invasion itself or during "sending invasion fleet to self-destruction".


Third, Sharina must be preserved. Why should a democratic government be overthrown by a communist or dictator rule that would run Sharina into the ground? I don't think so.



Now tell me why or how these would create a paradox.

Let us say, for instance, that I had temporal technology and replaced your commander, then invaded you. How would that make you feel?
That is my point.

I am not a person or nation to warmonger. I do not want or accept any nation invading me for no reason at all.

I will use Temporal Tech to prevent any invasion of me. I would not use it to invade other people. I will only use it in DEFENSE, which is a lot different from using it to F*** around or ruin other people nations.

Sharina, did you actually read the accord?
1) Messing with the past is generally a bad idea, and haven't you ever seen/read Jurassic Park?
2) Your type of defense would create a perfect grandfather paradox.
3) The good of the entire STC is a little mre important than if a Communist takes control of one nation, besides if the invaders are running Sharina into the ground, then you could ask for international support to kick them out, without screwing up the entire STC. It'd be a lot easier.

With the creation of the Temporal Accord, as well as Tappee signing of the Accord, we have conducted an analysis of Tappee current Temporal ability. In addition we have worked with the government of Indra Prime in assessing their temporal ability.

In terms of observing the STC we will openly admit that compared to that of Indra Prime our ability is somewhat limited, as well we equipped any ship with the ability to back step.

However, this does not make us any less capable then that of Indra Prime, it is that we have taken different approaches to the same problem. Tappee has already long established both intuitions, as well as procedures and protocols for deal with Time travel.

With the inherent dangers, and repercussions of Time travel we feel the no one country should be given the power to solely ensure the STC as well as enforcing the accord.

Therefore with both Indra Prime and Tappee being the fore runners in this field I am putting forward a motion that both Indra Prime and Tappee be responsible for both the STC as well as enforcing the accord. However, both countries will act independently from each other. It has been agree by both Indra Prime, as well as Myself that we will act as a check on the activities of each other to make sure that both parties act in accordance to the accord.


Signed
Benson Tabadarron
Deputy Director of the Saecula Saeculbrum

Sharina, did you actually read the accord?
1) Messing with the past is generally a bad idea, and haven't you ever seen/read Jurassic Park?
2) Your type of defense would create a perfect grandfather paradox.
3) The good of the entire STC is a little mre important than if a Communist takes control of one nation, besides if the invaders are running Sharina into the ground, then you could ask for international support to kick them out, without screwing up the entire STC. It'd be a lot easier.

I wouldn't be messing around with the past. I would simply be bringing the past to the present. It would be the same as sending something from the present into the future (one-way trip).

Also, Jurassic Park got screwed up because of Dennis Nedry, the greedy dude who messed with computers and stuff.

With future tech, much better protection and security can be put into place to protect the animals and people from each other at the "Extinction Parks".


I understand your point about the government thing.


About invasions and defense. If someone like Seph, Hataria, etc. decide to invade me with their fleets to wipe me out (kill every last citizen) I will have no choice but to preserve my people.

If using time tech to prevent Seph's, Hataria's, or other warmonger invasion would screw with the Prime Timeline, I'll just shift my nation into a parallel universe or something.

Even with two nations, or three, or a dozen, this accord if a badly vieled attempt at violating the soveriegnty of other nations. You nor Indra Prime have the right to dictate what countries that have not signed this treaty can do. Using force only proves your dictatorial intent.

I wouldn't be messing around with the past. I would simply be bringing the past to the present. It would be the same as sending something from the present into the future (one-way trip).

That is perfectly acceptable by the standards of the Temporal Accord. Things can be brought forward in time but cannot be allowed to return to be put in a position to affect the timeline that has already played out. Scientific Ships are allowed to go back to learn about moments in a nation's history to be able to document the events as they unfold, as long as they do not interefere with the natural course of history.

About invasions and defense. If someone like Seph, Hataria, etc. decide to invade me with their fleets to wipe me out (kill every last citizen) I will have no choice but to preserve my people.

If using time tech to prevent Seph's, Hataria's, or other warmonger invasion would screw with the Prime Timeline, I'll just shift my nation into a parallel universe or something.

Temporal Technology is only going to be used to combat temporal weaponry and not conventional weaponry. If it were the other way, Indra Prime would have become a very dominant nation in the galaxy. However, Temporal Weaponry and Shielding is not to be taken lightly. It is supposed to protect and defend from nations that attempt to use it in a hostile manner. If some nation comes and invades us, we would not use our temporal tech even if it would prevent our own destruction. that is something that should not take place. The Temporal Incursion Fleet has only been used a few times, and in all instances, it was against a nation that was using trying to use temporal weaponry against us.

Even with two nations, or three, or a dozen, this accord if a badly vieled attempt at violating the soveriegnty of other nations. You nor Indra Prime have the right to dictate what countries that have not signed this treaty can do. Using force only proves your dictatorial intent.

Repercussions of Time travel can be felt in any country. A small change in the STC in one country can unintentionally spill over into another country. Therefore, I have every right to make sure that my country is protected at any cost. I can not allow that actions one country that is either inexperienced, or arrogant in the way of Time travel to put my country at risk. Until which time a country can show that it is both competent, and experienced in Time travel I will make every effort to protect Tappee and it’s people

We are not trying to take sovreignity from other nation's. I do not think it can be done, nor do I think that any nation should try to do so. We are only in this position to protect the STC with all the weapons and technology in our arsenal. If you are in the position where you do not think you can be responsible with technology like this, then we would be forced to make our actions known to the rest of the galaxy. Every nation, including Indra Prime is always monitored by all the other nations to make sure they do not make offensive agressive motions toward another nation. WE welcome the observation and the monitoring of our temporal tech because that is the only way to put the minds of other nation leaders at ease. If you want to inspect our operation, we welcome you to as we have nothing to hide. Maybe then, when you see that we have no ill intentions toward your nations, you can see that we are only trying to protect civilization as we know it.

Whether you sign it or not, nations who attempt to develop this technology will be met with unconditional hostility from the single most temporally advanced nation. If you sign however, you will be accepting the responsibility of the actions you will choose, and when you are ready, you will be able to develop more advanced technology as time progresses.

Maybe then, when you see that we have no ill intentions toward your nations, you can see that we are only trying to protect civilization as we know it.

The above is your own statement reguarding the development of Time Travel, the below is your statement reguarding your nations not wishing any others any harm.

I find the second quote hard to beleive when you are so prepared to show hostility towards nations unwilling to sign anything your nation runs because of such aggressive replies.

Basically put... if you want people to trust you and sign up to something, try not treatening them.

Indra Prime, I got a question.

What about parallel universes?

Timelines can differ greatly, and paradxoes open up more parallel universes. Its quite difficult to say which parallel universe and parallel timeline is the "prime" one.

What about other Indra Primes?

What about other STC's?

With the invent of the Temporal Observatory, we have been able to determine that there is one Primary Timeline thread that flows through the STC. This thread is like an infinite string that has infinite frayed ends but one that continues on forever, and is a little more defined than the others. As the timeline reaches critical decision points the timeline splits off into primary and secondary timelines. But with the existance of conciousness, its natural instinct is to find the most probable timeline and the conciousness of a person or creature slides into the primary timeline. With the secondary timeline not actively being used by a primary entity the timeline begins to fade from the STC before it eventually "dissapears" all together. Now even though the timelie may not be visible, there are still ways to access those old timelines. YOu can think of it like the timelines go into a sort of Temporal Archive that the STC stores for an indeterminate length of time. If a primary entity uses some sort of quantum discriminator and manages to target a parallel universe, the secondary timeline is "pulled from archive", so essentially it fades into being for a short time while there is interaction with Primary entities. When the Primaries leave the timeline goes back into stasis and is once again back in archive. so to speak. If two living objects that have the exact quantum signature exist within the same timeline be it primary or secondary timelines, the foreign entity will begin to experience temporal dislocation on the quantum level, a sensation of pain which is almost unbearable. If the foreign duplicate is not removed before the temporal instability is corrected, the entity would die, a very painful death. This is one of the reasons that travel to parallel universes are strongly frowned upon.
There is also, in addition to parallel universes, the creation of unrealized realities which can be even more dangerous than parallel universes. These unrealized realities exist as a kind of caccoon around the timelines in an intricate 11th dimensional pinwheel around the timelines. The further away you get, the more absurd the unrealized realities become. There is no telling what can be inside these realities except for one certainty. Everything in that reality appears to be completely wrong with different people doing things that they never could do in our reality. Interaction with the unrealized realities also has the ability to completely override the nature of conciousness and erase the primary timeline and all the subsequent timelines that have split off from it. These are by far the biggest threat to our way of life as we all know it.
With the Temporal Observatory, we have the ability to monitor the entire STC and make sure that there are no impinging realities on our own that can affect us in ways that we cannot possibly see. Even with our abilities, we do not claim to know everything, as there are things that are still unknown even to us. Temporal changes are not instantaneous, as most people believe, but it takes time for effects to ripple through the continuum and to show up on our sensors.

OOC: so your proposing parallel universes to counter the law on change conservation?

Very well written Indra, an inspiring piece of work, and I'm sure many will sign this accord. In case you were wondering, no, I'm not going to sign this accord, but I'm still going to continue researching. Mind you, I might be able to rebuild our Temporal Incursion Vessel, and hopefully, make it better than before.

Tallyho!

Liquidus Snake

Indra Prime, I feel I must disagree.

I believe that the timelines don't fade out. They're just like a tree with infinite branches that have infinite lengths.

Universes where America never won independence, the South won the civil war, Hitler took over the world, the USSR won the cold war, WW III erupts from Cuban Missile Crisis, no Vietnam, no Christanity (Jesus was never born), the Roman Empire never collapsed, and countless other possibilities.

Those universes exist in a scheme as follows.... a rough ASCII art...


..............3----+---
..........2 -+----+---
-1---< ======+=1=
..........4 -+----+---
..............5----+---


1 = Original universe

2 = Universe with no USA

3 = Universe where Germany wins World Wars because of no USA

4 = Universe with South USA wins civil war

5 = Universe where the North USA invades Canada and South USA invades Mexico then annexes them

+ = Diverge points into new universes

... = filler to preserve ASCII art

I believe that the universe is like a cake with infinite layers. As more universes are created from choices, even miniscule ones where a simple ant decides to go left rather than right... and avoid being eaten alive as a result... a new "cake" with the additional layer is created.

Here's another ASCII art.

........./---
......../----
......./-----
---< ------
.......\-----
........\----
.........\---

Resembles a cake, doesn't it? These universes and divergent points lie on top of each other, and then further on, keep branching to create more cake layers around that particular universe.

........(to infinity)
........../
........./......../-----
......../-----<------ (to infinity)
......./..........\-----
....../
...../----------------
--<----------------- (to infinity)
.....\----------------
......\
.......\........../----
........\-----<----- (to infinity)
.........\........\----
..........\
........(to infinity)

Get the idea?


As for the indigeous universe John and alternate universe John existing in the same universe, it is possible.

Consider cloning. A clone of indigeous universe John would have the exact same abbruites (sp?) as the original John. Same height, face, hair, arms, organs, DNA, etc. in the exact same proportions. The clone can become different by adding more mass, such as longer hair, more body fat, etc.

So, Alternate John would be similiar to a clone of the Indigeous John, but with a different "quantum marker". Alternate John will be able to remain in parallel universes because he will eat, drink, breathe, and partake in the essence of the parallel universe. His quantum signature will be overwritten by the parallel universe quantum signature as Alternate John's cells are supplied with food, nutrition, liquids, and air from the parallel universe.

Alternate John can have different characterstics such as additional body weight, scars, different hair mass, etc. to distinguish himself from the Indigeous John.


This would accurately explain why people are able to move between parallel universes in Star Trek and the TV show "Sliders".



P.S. Sorry about the ...... in my ASCII diagrams. It won't let me preserve more than 2 spaces between my characters. If there's any way to remove this, I'd be grateful.

That was definitely a good statement of a theory, I have to admit. But I must also say that despite the clarity of what you said, in RL there is no definite way how to determine how the STC really unfolds. As in the ST universe and Sliders as well, your theory would fit rather nicely. However, initial studies are indicating that possible alternate realities are affected by quantum signatures, though it is not really possible to prove that there are any bad effects that occur if and when two objects possessing the same quantum spin interact. Using your analogy, If these two Johns had the exact same features, same DNA, same nuclieotide sequences, It stands to reason that even down to his submolecular structure would remain identical. Now, with elementary physics, it states that no two atoms can have identical quantum numbers (as your John and Alternate John would undoubetedly have). There would more than likely be an instability in one of the Johns which would eventually lead to a complete molecular breakdown of all his tissues (Which sufficit to say, would not be very comfortable to say the least). That is what I'm basing my opinion and my scientific facts off of.
And regarding the timelines fading out, I didn't exactly mean "fade out" in a normal three dimensional sense. When a timeline is not recognized by an entity of the primary timeline, it seems to lack cohesion, up until the point where someone actually recognizes the foreign timeline through interaction. One simple way to put this is, why does your conciousness follow down THIS path (primary timeline) and not travel down one of the others? We believe that the conciousness is able to make sub-subconcious decisions that allow it to follow the Primary Timeline as it is supposed to. Your conciousness does not split off in any part to go experience the alternate You, in another timeline, your conciousness stays completely the same, just with the added knowledge of the decision point you just past. Thus the statement hindsight is always 20/20 becomes valid.

Alright so I am writing this series of books. The universe they are based in is naturaly split into three diffrent universes. On one side we have the universe where science is the predominate force and everything follows known laws. Time travel is a common occurance on school feild trips for little children, that is how far advanced this universe is. Seperating that universe from the other one is, well really a thick layer of Pure Chaos that has begun spreading into the two universes. I call it a universe just because I really don't know what else to call it. On the other side of the Chaos is another universe. This universe follows the path of Magic. Science is nothing but a myth and all the forces are controlled by either Gods and Goddesses, Sentient Forces of Nature, or Really Powerful Wizards and Wizardesses. Are you saying that it is flat out impossible for, say, one character to cross over into the other universe, or, perhaps two charcters to travel the Chaos because It just wouldn't be believable? Because Said Charecters Are Exact Opposets of Each other in that they have the same Quantum Signature, yet, they are Exact Opposits of Each other. Both Universes Are Opposite Possibilities of the Other, With the Chaos Layer seperating them to prevent an Unfortunate accident.

I never said it was impossible, plus you are talking about a matter which is different completely. I was talking about temporal divergences at an 11th dimensional point in Space/Time. Technically speaking, the two timelines that I was referring to, would be in the same universe, though temporally and quantumly separated. The idea youre talking about are two totally different universes. Within the multiverse, there may be something that affects people the same way as intradimensional travelling , like between parallel realities. If the books you are writing are fition, then I dont believe that any fantasy about the quantum differences will make that big of a difference, in fact it may allow you to make things interesting. But please note, despite the references I am making, these are all best educated guesses, precisely because no human has been able to detect parallel universes, the multiverse, alternate realities, etc. These facts are the premise on which we theoretical physicists, work to explain.

Okay... I get confused easily.

That was definitely a good statement of a theory, I have to admit. But I must also say that despite the clarity of what you said, in RL there is no definite way how to determine how the STC really unfolds. As in the ST universe and Sliders as well, your theory would fit rather nicely. However, initial studies are indicating that possible alternate realities are affected by quantum signatures, though it is not really possible to prove that there are any bad effects that occur if and when two objects possessing the same quantum spin interact. Using your analogy, If these two Johns had the exact same features, same DNA, same nuclieotide sequences, It stands to reason that even down to his submolecular structure would remain identical. Now, with elementary physics, it states that no two atoms can have identical quantum numbers (as your John and Alternate John would undoubetedly have). There would more than likely be an instability in one of the Johns which would eventually lead to a complete molecular breakdown of all his tissues (Which sufficit to say, would not be very comfortable to say the least). That is what I'm basing my opinion and my scientific facts off of.
And regarding the timelines fading out, I didn't exactly mean "fade out" in a normal three dimensional sense. When a timeline is not recognized by an entity of the primary timeline, it seems to lack cohesion, up until the point where someone actually recognizes the foreign timeline through interaction. One simple way to put this is, why does your conciousness follow down THIS path (primary timeline) and not travel down one of the others? We believe that the conciousness is able to make sub-subconcious decisions that allow it to follow the Primary Timeline as it is supposed to. Your conciousness does not split off in any part to go experience the alternate You, in another timeline, your conciousness stays completely the same, just with the added knowledge of the decision point you just past. Thus the statement hindsight is always 20/20 becomes valid.

To be honest, I'm actually enjoying this debate.


To address your point regarding quantum signatures and such...

Wouldn't clones be exact copies of the original entity, down to DNA? We have already done some cloning, namely the famous "Dolly" sheep cloning.

If you cloned an animal, or a human two times. Put both clones in the same room, feed them the exact same food, give them exact same vitamins / minerals, have them drink the exact same liquids, etc. In short, raise them in the exact same ways.

Then thereotically they would have the same biochemical, physical, and quantum characterstics (Them being created then existing in the exact same universe). Would one or both of them distingerate or suffer some sort of molecular breakdown?

I'd like to hear more about this "Molecular breakdown" theory of yours.



Your second statement. The timeline fade-outs and consciousness following the primary timeline.

I would like to ask about these universes with people consciousness. Take my USSR wins Cold War universe example for instance. People living in that universe would regard it as the Primary Timeline (P.T.), because their consciousness would be following that universe's direction.

Or what about the universe with the USA and CSA (Confederate States of America)? People consciousness and existence in that universe would also consider it the P.T.

For all we know, this universe we are living in right now might not be the Primary Timeline, yet we all exist in this universe and think of it as our P.T.



Slightly off-topic: Anyone other than Indra Prime, can you guys follow our debate?

It is good to finally be able to discuss this on an adult level and actually expect to have enticing conversation about a subject that people don't have the first clue how to use in NS, so they make things up that are absolutely preposterous. Buuut anyway, here is my response to your charges.

In the first topic, clones, despite their obvious identical genetic makeup and the different things that can be done to make them have an identical lifestyle, there is no possible way to create an entity in the exact same universe that has the exact same quantum spin as another would have. Each infintesimal change is strong enough to change the basic quantum structure of the cloned sheep, so the cloned sheep wouldnt just up and explode (though it would be kinda funny to see that). Even during the development stage there are minute changes that scientists cannot predict that would be able to affect the development of the clone. slight irregularities in gravitiational forces, stellar radiations, anything you can imagine could have the ability to change how a clone grows up. Heres a good analogy that would explain the clone issues.

Imagine you have two completely identical glasses that have been completely sealed from outside interferance, sitting on a table with a large pitcher of completely pure distilled water, with absolutely no impurities, and theoretically with identical molecules of water all perfectly synchronized. Now, by hand, pour the water in both glasses and try to get them to be exactly the same amount of molecules. If by some miracle you do that by hand, you cannot make the molecules have identical orientation in both glasses. Now with the two glasses, pour them back into the pitcher and then try to again isolate the molecules in the exact same orientation as they were in the pitcher as before. It is a logisitical imposibility. The same theory works with two quantumly identical people with different quantum signatures. Trying to mix them in the same universe is impossible. There would be some major problems that would arise out of the interaction by the foreign entity.

Now with the thing about conciousness within other realities, the only thing I can ask is why do you have obvious conciousness in this timeline? Why is it not in another, unless this is the only primary timeline that conciousness' are supposed to be in. Neurologists have been unable to unravel the mysteries of the human brain and perhaps part of the problem is because of the fact that they are not looking at the problem in a multidimensional standpoint. Perhaps the neural pathways of a human brain are actually conduits that identify what path that the conciousness must take at the critical decision points in the STC. Perhaps its this interaction with the STC that the human brain has the ability to tap into certain abilities like, ESP or Telekenesis. Of course that is just a theory but an interesting one.

Slightly off-topic: Anyone other than Indra Prime, can you guys follow our debate?

OOC: To a degree, but I am someone who only reads a book on this subject when it catches his eye... preferably one which explains things in a reasonable manner I can understand. Finding out things such as the fact that the gravititational pull and/or the speed of an object affects how much time it experiences, but I'm not going to get into that right now and I don't remember enough about it.

However, on a roleplayers level I find alot of this time travel to be rather wank. I mean, the problem with any and all attempts at time travel in a fantasy game is that many people view this as a competition and not a cooperative roleplaying system.

Seeing as people are going to be competative in their roleplay subjects which such as time travel can be abused in such a manner that it's use automatically means a win, afterall, if you change history correctly you can make it so that they don't exist. Without having the defending nations cooperation on the subject you will end up just writing a bunch of RP, without them being able to defend themselves and claim "joo don't exist!!1". It can only work if everyone involved works together...

Given that few people in NS can work together, the use of time travel as a weapon is going to be inevitable. My prefered method of defence? This arguement:


The past is impossible to change, anything which has happened will stay happened. By going back in time to change the past, you actually go to another universe identicle to this universe and act out your change in that universe because thats part of their history. The effect to my nation? None, you changed a different universe.

The theory behind it is one of many, oh so many, theories regarding time travel and the results of changing things. Lets face it, there are few actual facts about it for any RPer to use in any situation.

Is it the most likely possibility? Maybe not, but it's one which makes sense and fits my dislike for any techno-bable which incists in using the word "temporal". Seeing as nothing has been proven in regards to what would happen if you attempted to change the past, I think it's the best stance.

In Character, as a nation... we don't beleive it's possible to change whats happened and we are pretty offended to think that any nation would claim outright that nations who don't join them will be shown unprovoked hostility for trying to develope technology which in all probability, can't do shit.

This is why, IC, my nation severly dislikes the attempted "diplomacy" done to our neighbours, Foolish Pesants.

OOC: Dont get me wrong. I dont believe that Time Travel in Nationstates is a viable weapon. Thats why we have not developed it as a weapon. All we have developed it for is research and development of critical points in history. One of the reasons for developing this accord was to prevent nations from actually using time travel as a strategic weapon. THAT is the reason for signifying the threat of unconditional hostility toward those nations. A number of nations have attempted to use it as a weapon and we have stopped them from using it or succeeding in the most basic of senses. We do not frown on the development of temporal technology, as it would make the RPing skills of many nations have to improve drastically because they would have to learn the theories and the procedures of how to use it. That is basically the extent of the reasoning behind the accord.

OOC: Dont get me wrong. I dont believe that Time Travel in Nationstates is a viable weapon. Thats why we have not developed it as a weapon. All we have developed it for is research and development of critical points in history. One of the reasons for developing this accord was to prevent nations from actually using time travel as a strategic weapon. THAT is the reason for signifying the threat of unconditional hostility toward those nations. A number of nations have attempted to use it as a weapon and we have stopped them from using it or succeeding in the most basic of senses. We do not frown on the development of temporal technology, as it would make the RPing skills of many nations have to improve drastically because they would have to learn the theories and the procedures of how to use it. That is basically the extent of the reasoning behind the accord.


I myself find that I am stuck in one of the worst war in my country. A war that would have never happened if it were not for someone from the future interfering with the present.

Time travel has to be carefully done, and only those that have learned to do is safely should be allowed to do so.

One of the reasons for developing this accord was to prevent nations from actually using time travel as a strategic weapon. THAT is the reason for signifying the threat of unconditional hostility toward those nations.

OOC: Yes, thats all very well, but as a nation of people who doesn't single out the possibility of time travel, but feel that it is impossible to change the past, we find the idea that any nation may be threatened because they are developing a pointless technology to be unacceptable in the international community.

Basically put, my nation sees this as unprovoked aggression and as a nation who see to it that we respect a nations soveriegn right to lead it's people however it likes, we can't abide by such aggressive politics.

This is pretty much where the complications come in. Whats more, even if time travel does exist, how can we, a nation with a society which thinks like the military along with the paranoia that comes with it, trust you to not us such a treaty to further your own agenda...

Does this mean we are right? Hell no, this is a matter of opinion... but it's a nations opinion and such things can cause complications.

Ulimately, this is a diplomatic problem, it's that simple... in character we don't like your tone.

In the Distortions of Quantificated Spacetime

Hidden beneath the unthinkable, he raised, watching, listening. He wasn't terribly busy, so he took his time, jumping from galaxy to galaxy, occasionally tripping over a local black hole... Not that it mattered much, a few thousand suns consumed, a few dozen civilizations lost... He would repair the damage, later.

Now, what do we have here...? He checked the distortions. Oh, transmissions. Feh. It tickled, a little, not much, though.

Time Travel... Accord... Prevention of abuse... He was kinda amused. For a moment, he pondered the option of teaching them just how temporal technology could be abused... But he decided against, using an infinitesimal short amount of time to repair the damage he had done earlier.

I'm sure master is amused, too... He wasn't in a position to actually think about his master... Yet, he couldn't help it. He decided to 'watch' (This word, 'watch' being completely unable to actually express the ways in which he got his information, the ways his 'senses' worked) this further... It could become reasonably interesting.

Though he had to admit that the rise of the Fitauxian Empire in a nearby supercluster was quite fascinating, too. Not that he intended to smash them out of spite...

He felt a little bit of pain. No, really, I wont interfere with them, master.

And thus, he went away, eventually deciding to explore the distant future, the time after the universe as those mere mortals knew it would be gone, replaced with something radically, absolutely different.

If Axis Nova ever did try to develop time travel technology, we would prefer to travel laterally to other timelines instead of forwards or back on this one.

OOC: I can follow it (Barely). I find it quite intresting and informitive. I know I signed the accord to begin developing Temporal Technology, but, I am in the middle of a great project.

Imagine you have two completely identical glasses that have been completely sealed from outside interferance, sitting on a table with a large pitcher of completely pure distilled water, with absolutely no impurities, and theoretically with identical molecules of water all perfectly synchronized. Now, by hand, pour the water in both glasses and try to get them to be exactly the same amount of molecules. If by some miracle you do that by hand, you cannot make the molecules have identical orientation in both glasses. Now with the two glasses, pour them back into the pitcher and then try to again isolate the molecules in the exact same orientation as they were in the pitcher as before. It is a logisitical imposibility. The same theory works with two quantumly identical people with different quantum signatures. Trying to mix them in the same universe is impossible. There would be some major problems that would arise out of the interaction by the foreign entity.

Thanks. I understand your theory more fully now.

My theory, as I stated earlier, is that if the Alternate John partakes the essence of the universe he's visiting, his cells and body will slowly take on the quantum signature of the "current" universe. New cells would be constructed using material and nutrition from the "current" universe, as well as from oxygen molecules with its "current" universe quantum signature.

This would cause the Alternate John (A.J.) to take on similiar characterstics as a clone of the Indiegious John (I.J.) would.

Thinking back on your analog, it does make good sense. However, there remains the possibility of several water molecules sharing similiar configurations through the two actions, the pouring into cup, then pouring into the pitcher. I know it is impossible to keep every one of the million or billion water molecules in the exact same configuration, but there's the possibility of "clusters" remaining together.


In addition, there are ways to counter this molecular break-down (If your molecular breakdown theory is proven to be true later on).

I could build a Temporal Space Station that remains outside of normal space-time, then take food and material from a parallel universe I plan on visiting. Then I could feed my explorers that food and material, causing their quantum signature to change, to take on characterstics of that particular universe.

Once their quantum signature matches the intended universe to visit, then I'll send them on through the portal or whatever.

Also, I could use technology to alter the quantum signatures to match the universe I plan on visiting.

What about using people who are alive in our Primary Timeline, but who are dead in the parallel universe?

I'm just throwing around potential solutions to your theory (even though I stand by mine).



Regarding your theory about consciousness.

Now with the thing about conciousness within other realities, the only thing I can ask is why do you have obvious conciousness in this timeline? Why is it not in another, unless this is the only primary timeline that conciousness' are supposed to be in. Neurologists have been unable to unravel the mysteries of the human brain and perhaps part of the problem is because of the fact that they are not looking at the problem in a multidimensional standpoint. Perhaps the neural pathways of a human brain are actually conduits that identify what path that the conciousness must take at the critical decision points in the STC. Perhaps its this interaction with the STC that the human brain has the ability to tap into certain abilities like, ESP or Telekenesis. Of course that is just a theory but an interesting one.

Interesting premise.

We live out our lives in this timeline, so do animals, plants, etc. Then after we die, our consciousness ends. I'm putting aside all religious ramifications like Heaven, Hell, Paradise, etc. aside, and they have no bearing on this discussion (note to other readers).

Our consciousness during their existence on this timeline, in a way, creates their own universe.

Think about it. Why are we seeing through our eyes at this moment, using our bodies? For all we know, we could be characters in a holo-deck, or each of our singular consciousness living out a life-like dream. Sometimes people dream inside their own dreams.

I know this is getting way out there into the abstract. :p Back to the discussion at hand.

Lets take a decision juncture in one person's life.

Decision Juncture: "Should I try to have sex tonight and try for a baby? Or should I try it tomorrow because I'm not feeling too well right now?"

Decision 1: Have sex tonight and then a baby is produced (sperm fertilizes an egg).

The baby is born 9 months later, and is a boy.


Decision 2: Have sex tomorrow, and a baby is produced.

The baby is born 9 months later, and is a girl.


In this juncture, the XY chromosomes paired up during "tonight sex" and the XX chromosomes paired up during "tomorrow sex".

Now onwards to the consciousness part.

The guy and wife's consciousness is aware of the past and the present. Their consciousness will follow the Decision 2 universe. That will become their Primary Timeline. The baby is born, and her consciousness will only know the Primary Timeline of its parents.

But... for all we know, Decision 1 would be our Primary Timeline, but the parents consciousness shifted into a parallel universe with their decision to have sex the next day and the subsquent daughter.


Hope this makes sense. :p

Also, I was wondering if I could have your nation's blessing to research these theories and such in the NS universe once my nation enters the Space Age?

The reason we request that nations respect our leadership in the field is precisely because we know where nations can really screw up in research and in order to protect the sanctity of the STC, we would help them through the absolute most difficult points in the research. We also want people to have a very good understanding of the tecnology they want to use, and not just make things up because they sound cool. You appear to have a knowledge base that is commendable, as well as a level of maturity that tells us that you will not misuse this technology. The only thing we would be worried about, it the age of your nation. Generally nations who are that young do not possess the necessary technical skills to develop this technology. But if you do start along that path, you need to know that it will take time to reach even the first stage of Temporal Development. When you do reach that point in development you may proceed at researching that technology. We will even help you along when you get to that point. But we will need to monitor your development, just to make sure that no problems go past the point of no return, and would be unfixable, even by us. If you can agree to those terms, then I think we have an agreement.

The reason we request that nations respect our leadership in the field is precisely because we know where nations can really screw up in research and in order to protect the sanctity of the STC, we would help them through the absolute most difficult points in the research. We also want people to have a very good understanding of the tecnology they want to use, and not just make things up because they sound cool. You appear to have a knowledge base that is commendable, as well as a level of maturity that tells us that you will not misuse this technology. The only thing we would be worried about, it the age of your nation. Generally nations who are that young do not possess the necessary technical skills to develop this technology. But if you do start along that path, you need to know that it will take time to reach even the first stage of Temporal Development. When you do reach that point in development you may proceed at researching that technology. We will even help you along when you get to that point. But we will need to monitor your development, just to make sure that no problems go past the point of no return, and would be unfixable, even by us. If you can agree to those terms, then I think we have an agreement.

No problem.

I'm RP'ing in Modern Age (2000 - 2050), but I'll probably advance my nation into Post-Modern (2050 - 2100), then Space Age (2100 - 2300). Afterwards, I'll begin Future Age (2300 onwards).

I plan to RP for a few months or so per Age, to try to simulate true development of my nation from Modern to Future, just like in Real Life.

You are more than welcome to monitor my development and such and provide advice. By the time I'm a Future Tech nation, it'd probably be this Spring, 2005. By then, my nation would probably have 1 billion people or something.

However, I just might consider RP'ing rudimentary development of Temporal stuff. That is, theories and studying possible phenmonena. Then perhaps by October, start RP'ing quantum stuff (2100 era stuff).

You see, my nation has lopsided features.

Railroad, computer, power generation, and construction technologies and industries are post-modern, while automobiles, water treatment, garbage diposal, and genetics are pre-modern (WW2 era).

This is because my nation developed the Steam Engine 50 years earlier than Real Life due to living in mountainous areas and near several geothermal vents. This has helped our railroad and power generation technology, then in turn, help construction and computerization technology.

Basically, my nation is a blend of Incan and Egyptian talent and innate skills with construction. I wrote a nice bit of history in another RP thread, I gotta look it up.


When we do achieve Temporal Level 1 (first level of Temporal research according to your standards)... Level 1 is bottom, level 5 or whatever is the highest, right? We would be happy to help Indra Prime with temporal research, development, and policing.

Sounds good?

The reason we request that nations respect our leadership in the field is precisely because we know where nations can really screw up in research and in order to protect the sanctity of the STC.

Respect is earned, not given. We don't think you are the top in this field... no matter how many "Credentials" you throw at us you have to prove your nation is worthy of respect though it's actions. The accord isn't a bad idea... but to force your will on other nations seeking to make the technology is like me saying "Nukes will destroy the world, if you develop them I will declare war on you, unless you sign this treaty which I made... you do trust me right?"

We also want people to have a very good understanding of the tecnology they want to use, and not just make things up because they sound cool.

People in NS use fantasy technology, like Star Trek. They follow concepts and have technology because it's interesting to RP and cool. To expect someone to be a expert on everything they RP is unreasonable. If you want to teach people then thats fair enough I guess, just don't think you have the "right" to stop someone RPing something because they don't understand all the science behind it.

Given that the human body is constantly changing, cells dividing, etc. and that you essentially have an almost completely new body every ten years as compared to the old one... wouldn't the displacement either be far less, or far more catastrophic than what is here?

Basically, if you visit yourself twenty years in the future, you're displacing parts of other people, plants, animals, soil, and so forth... so would it be more of a matter of consciousness that you're displacing, or if you'll excuse the expression, could your body end up scrambled like a couple of eggs?

People do not understand why this document was created. It was created so that nations would not have to fear that their well being would be interfered with by another nation who is bent on altering the normal flow of time. That is precisely the reason we are working to maintain this treaty and to protect everyone from people who would misuse this technology.

Indra Prime... Have I used Temporal Technology in a wrongful manner yet? (Sarcasm)

Well, back to computer class...

Official Memorandum from the office of the President of the Constitutional Republic of Tekania....


Dear sirs,

The Constitutional Republic of Tekania finds this accord in compliance with the inherent non-interference procedures implimented amongst our Stellar Forces. And as such, in the interest of completeness, would like the Republic's name added to the list of signatories in the Accord. To officially engraft our selves as in compliance with this accord.

President Eric D. Williamson(LRP),
President of the Constitutional Republic of Tekania.

(Attachment1) - Official Ratification by the Tekanian House of Delegates
(Attachment2) - Official Ratification by the Tekanian Senate

Alright, heres a serious question for all you Temporal Accord people....
Background:
Kaerion's Kestrels, a mercenary unit from the year 3258 AD, ended up getting dumped through a space/time break, to a nation plauged by warlords and such things, much akin to Somolia of the 1990s, sometime in the modern age. With them they brought advanced technology...and a biological plauge known as Karhaa. They were able to contain the Karhaa growth, but in the process were forced to eliminate the warlords campaigning across the country to keep themselves safe.

They proceeded to use what Advanced Tech (AddTech) they had left to model equipment they started using the country to mass produce, both as a method of providing revenue to better the nation they accidentally inherited and to provide a defensive force for the newly established Order.

The Kestrels continued researching their AddTech up until a Dreadnought, the GLF Psamtik, emerged from the break searching for the lost Kestrels. They were pursued by another ship, the CSS Morogeth, which ended up being destroyed and crashed into the surface in the containment zone, entirely eradicating the Karhaa infestation in the process. The Psamtik provided the Kestrels with further technology, enabling them to build a starship, the Tempest .

Alright, so far, have I violated these Temporal Accords of yours? If not, keep reading, there's more.

The Stardrive utilized by the Kestrel ship and its associates is called a Fold-Space drive. Basically, it 'folds' a section of the universe in half, putting Point A next to Point B...and then punches a hole through the Space/Time Continuum, through the TimeStream itself, through Null-Space, and then back through the TimeStream, Continuum and back into Sidereal space, much like a needle through cloth.

Of course, crossing the TimeStream is painful for some unknown reason, and the further the distance Folded, the larger the TimeStream crossing, which means the more pain one suffers. Past X distance, it can be fatal. Ships have lost power mid-Fold, however, stranding them in Null-Space, and sometimes, they get caught in the TimeStream from a nearby Fold. No idea if theres a way to ride the TimeStream to move to a different point in time.....

So, have I volated it yet? Whaddya guys think? And most importantly....is it even going to be allowed for the Kestrels to manipulate space and time to get themselves home?

THe reason for my asking, by the way, is a potential conclusion to the Kestrel StoryArc, which I started back when I started NS, Jan '03.

Alright, heres a serious question for all you Temporal Accord people....
Background:
Kaerion's Kestrels, a mercenary unit from the year 3258 AD, ended up getting dumped through a space/time break, to a nation plauged by warlords and such things, much akin to Somolia of the 1990s, sometime in the modern age. With them they brought advanced technology...and a biological plauge known as Karhaa. They were able to contain the Karhaa growth, but in the process were forced to eliminate the warlords campaigning across the country to keep themselves safe.

They proceeded to use what Advanced Tech (AddTech) they had left to model equipment they started using the country to mass produce, both as a method of providing revenue to better the nation they accidentally inherited and to provide a defensive force for the newly established Order.

The Kestrels continued researching their AddTech up until a Dreadnought, the GLF Psamtik, emerged from the break searching for the lost Kestrels. They were pursued by another ship, the CSS Morogeth, which ended up being destroyed and crashed into the surface in the containment zone, entirely eradicating the Karhaa infestation in the process. The Psamtik provided the Kestrels with further technology, enabling them to build a starship, the Tempest .

Technically speaking no, you have not violated the Temporal Accord. There are a number of reasons I can give that proves that you havent. First of all, a Temporal Fissure is an all but natural event that can occur when there is a multidimensional explosion which makes an unstable balance in the STC. In order for the STC to cope with the excess energy, a rift forms, either temporal or spatial, and the energy is released. The Former is more rare than the latter but it is known to occur. Secondly the Kestrels came from the future and were marooned in the past, correct? If so, the addition of the ships does not overly influence their outcome and will not change the outcome of the world, any more than the Kestrels did when they first arrived.


The Stardrive utilized by the Kestrel ship and its associates is called a Fold-Space drive. Basically, it 'folds' a section of the universe in half, putting Point A next to Point B...and then punches a hole through the Space/Time Continuum, through the TimeStream itself, through Null-Space, and then back through the TimeStream, Continuum and back into Sidereal space, much like a needle through cloth.

Of course, crossing the TimeStream is painful for some unknown reason, and the further the distance Folded, the larger the TimeStream crossing, which means the more pain one suffers. Past X distance, it can be fatal. Ships have lost power mid-Fold, however, stranding them in Null-Space, and sometimes, they get caught in the TimeStream from a nearby Fold. No idea if theres a way to ride the TimeStream to move to a different point in time.....

So, have I volated it yet? Whaddya guys think? And most importantly....is it even going to be allowed for the Kestrels to manipulate space and time to get themselves home?

THe reason for my asking, by the way, is a potential conclusion to the Kestrel StoryArc, which I started back when I started NS, Jan '03.

A number of nations do utilize Spatial Fold Drives that operate along similar principles that yours do. There is no problem with the use or development of such drives as they do not have the ability to proactively affect the STC temporally, which is much more dangerous than spatially. The Spatial Fold Drives lack a few critical components that would allow such fine tuning that would give the ship/drive access to the temporal portion of the STC. Without those critical components, no temporal displacement can occur, unless certain catastrophic events occus simultaneously. Odds of that happening are so infinetessimal there is not any concern that it will happen. The Temporal Impellors that are used as engines in the Indran Navy, do indeed have the components needed to make that additional temporal displacement to travel in time. Since our inception, IP has worked nonstop, first as the privately owned Temporal Research Institute and then later as the national directorate, The Temporal Research Commission. We have become the most advanced nation in the field of Temporal Mechanics and as such we have made such advancements, it allows us to pinpoint places in Space and Time and to travel to there. We have come across nations who have attempted to use this form of technology for their gain, and so far we have been successful in preventing universal catastrophy.

Okay, one last thing to mention, It slipped my mind earlier.

Because of an issue with the Kestrels that were marooned being unable to move through the rift themselves, while the other forces can and have used the Rift to move freely, they've been forced to research special technologies....

In a small plot of antarctica, as granted in a treaty, the Order built Base NOMAD, a research facility. The Kestrels which attempted to proceed through the rift were caught up in the TimeStream..and lost. The solution proposed, and being researched by Base NOMAD is to simply remove the people in question from the TimeStream...a Temporal Stasis Field.

Not exactly a safe technology to research, is it....

A temporal stasis field is a level of temporal technology that would require knowledge and skills that would surpasss basic understanding of temporal mechanics. On our scale of requirements of temporal development, the temporal stasis field would require at least a level VII or VIII in order to create the most basic stasis field. Once a nation reaches level IV, they are required to advance to a certain point, in both understanding of the possible technologies and also in maturity. Nations who show an agressive stance with the use of this technology must be persuaded to not continue this research as it would endanger many thousands of civilizations, not only their own should they fail.

....So in otherwords..a nation that doesnt do space/time manipulation any more complex than the Fold Drive would be going to a huge length and danger to develop the Temporal Stasis Field...something you would, by your beliefs and philosophy, be required to stop, correct?

....So in otherwords..a nation that doesnt do space/time manipulation any more complex than the Fold Drive would be going to a huge length and danger to develop the Temporal Stasis Field...something you would, by your beliefs and philosophy, be required to stop, correct?

Not exactly. As I said, the technology to create the Stasis Field would not in itself be dangerous. Its the technology that is required to make the stasis field that can be dangerous. If a nation does not attempt to make the Temporal Displacement Manifold operational, and only intends to create the stasis field, we would not have a problem with it. The amount of technical skill needed to cross the temporal threshold, is enormous. Basically, from the Fold Drive, it would require exponential growth in development and understanding of the temporal nature of the STC. With our level of technology, we are able to keep track of advancements of other nations in temporal mechanics, and we can determine possible threats to the STC. We monitor the STC as you would monitor space. Each nation who is beginning to develop this technology creates an ever increasing fluxuation in the curvature of the STC which grows more and more pronounced as they get to be more developed in temporal technologies.

...The point to all my questions is this: You've given me an idea for part of the Kestrel Story...Making a 'Whoops' with this tech.

While the Federation will not sign at this time, your document does bring to the surface many points we had forgotten. We shall still continue our research into temporal travel, and temporal shielding, but we wish to assure the signatories here that we shall closely regulate all temporal travel, as well as limiting our temporal shielding to level 4. At this time, we have developed a system which we believe is analogous to your level 1 shielding.


OOC: Would you please send data on the shield levels?

It has been a long time, and quite a few RPs since I last stepped foot in here, I believe I made a fool of myself (as all noobies do). I think its time I signed this thing.

The United States of Siesatia would like to reapply to sign the accord. I believe we have developed usable technologies. Albiet low leveled.
Level one Temporal Shields
Level one Temporal Sensors

These run off of a plasma power source for now, but we are researching Temporal Power Cores, that will be completed in a few years (3 RL Months)

OOCISH
Oh, by the way, for you TA nations, I could use one of your help....
Got a nice little temporal distortion deal going on, gettin much, much worse...Drop me a message if you've got the interest.

The union will acualy sign this .. since like all grate nations we have to make compises to keep the STC safe.

Dear
[ ] _____________
[ ] Gits
[ ] Madames
[x] Persons
[ ] Sirs
[ ] To Whom it may concern

We have

[ ] _____________
[ ] Destroyed
[ ] Learnt of
[ ] Observed
[x] Read

your

[ ] _____________
[ ] Activities
[ ] Army
[ ] Diplomats
[ ] Fleet
[ ] Nation
[ ] Plans
[x] Treaty

and

[ ] _____________
[ ] approve
[ ] are displeased by you.
[ ] are displeased by your _____________
[ ] are laughing at you
[x] disapprove
[ ] find it noble and well thought out
[ ] find it to have merit
[ ] have decided to punish you for your _____________

have

[ ] _____________
[ ] a small onion
[x] a very nice day
[ ] a very nice life
[ ] a very short life

C'tan Foreign Ministry, S-Dept.

OOC: I actually recieved a letter like that once........

OOC: I already talked to you on AIM with the GZ, so I'll keep it short, I have level 2 Temporal Sheilding and sensors nothing specil
*****************************
The East Coast Federation has recently entered the feild of temporal Research and is currently at level 2. We wish to add our name to the list.
Level 2 Sheilding
Level 2 Sensors

I say we ban temporal weapons outright, combine our research into temporal shielding, then shoot every temporalologist afterwards. Thats what we Skeelzanians did with our time-traveling eggheads.

Since this thread does not have one of those tasty blue checkmarks...and yes, I know that some of the words I'm using don't actually exist....

<<A message posted on the public Net>>

To: Whomever it may Concern
From: The Tower Institute for Random Studies, Wye City Prefecture
Subject: Temporal Accord

The Kingdom of Weyr, and The Tower at Wye, restate their positions as neutral bodies in any conflicts that may result due to this treaty. However, any attempts to disrupt spacio-temporal research held within the Kingdom of Weyr, or any of its constituent parts, will be considered an act of hostile agression against the Kingdom of weyr and the United Weyrik Prefectures, and may be viewed as an initiation of war.

Sincerely,
Office of the High King
Office of the Grand Alchemist
Group of Twelve UR&D
The High Council of Weyr
Concerned Citizens United
Moms, Pops, and Inbetweens for Interesting Times
Quacks Unlimited
<The list continues>

In Time City, which is located on a patch of space and time that has ben removed from the rest of the continum, is the FMP SFSTC monitering station which can locate eney disturbance within the STC and dispach enforcers to deal with the problem within one hour of it occuring. the only to reach Time City is by use of the SFSTC DRIVE enabled hover bikes.

"sir the message is ready how would you like to send it"
"i will deliver it myself, get one of the bikes ready"
"ay-ay sir"
/\/\/\5 min later/\/\/\
"sir the bike is ready to go"
"good, ill be back five minuts ago in my study"
/\/\/\with that i gun the bike down the road and and activate the SFSTC DRIVE and disiper in a burst of white light(SESTC DRIVE means Spatial Fold Space Time Continum DRIVE which alowes me to do a fold while traveling through time)moments befor i disiperd i arived in a burst of white light in front of the Indra Prime capital and deliver the following message (see below) then disiper in yet another burst of white light ariving, five min befor i left, in time city.

"The Rogue Criptographic Nation of FMP would like to inform you that the Temporal Accord is a good idea and if it was worked out better we would consider signing but we regret to inform you that we will not and we will continu to moniter/travel through the space time continum useing the SFSTC DRIVE (insclosed is an detaled discription of said drive) we do not wish eney trouble (causing or reciving) thank you /\/\--/\--/\--/\--/\--/\--/\--/\--/\--/\--/\--/\--/\--/\--/\--/\--/\--/\--/\/\ The Rogue Criptographic Nation of FMP"

OOC:sory for bad spelling long day. i have ben abel to follow 90-95% of the conversation

Greetings and salutations!

This may be of no consequence to many of you, as we are but a small nation only now dabbling in the ways of Space-Time Dynamics... but here goes.

The Dominion of Godular, while being but a small nation that only hopes to one day match the technologies of the signatory nations, hereby refuses to sign any treaty relating to the handling of temporal dynamics.

Please keep in mind that this is not because we intend to use it for national gain at the expense of other nations as soon as we develop such technological "Marvels", but that we simply believe that the creation and utilization of such things is completely and utterly impossible.

(/ooc I know I know, I'm prolly just being a spoil-sport with regards to science-fiction imaginations in overdrive, but I note a couple odd thorns floating about, the most gnawing question is...

Temporal Shielding: The way I read the description of this particular class of gizmo is that it effectively shields an area or ship from the ravages of temporal restructuring due to the introduction of a "Backstep" alteration to the timeline, such as assassinating a powerful figure in order to prevent or start a war, correct?

How would one be able to... develop such a thing? I'd think it would be impossible to test whether such a thing is actually effective. As soon as somebody offs a general, the timeline would restructure itself so that the reason for the "Backsteppers'" incursion into the past would either be altered, removed, or a moot issue as there is suddenly nobody looking into temporal mechanics. Those testing the shield would have no way of telling whether it worked. Its like experimenting on something that removes all traces of its own existence if the experiment is successful, even going so far as to wipe the memories of everybody even remotely aware of its existence.

Its like a technological catch-22. In order to develop the technology, you must already have it.

I do hope indra prime can answer me this question, though its no biggie if not. I just hope I didn't cause TOO much of a stir. I would look forward to talking shop with another physics buff, however.)

OCC : Hello Indra:

I need to talk to you.... privately. For some reason it seems I can't send you mail. So if you wouldn't mind contacting me it would be appreciated.

Kor

Temporal BackStep Ability: QUESTION for Indra: What about the possiblity of someone using Star Treks Method of time travel... sling shot around the sun... ie..." TIMEWARP ": Star Trek Four / Star Trek ( Original Series ) Any ship with Warp Drive could definately use this method to travel to the past, possibly even to the future.

I do hope you aren't claiming you have the right to say what I can and cannot study. Of course, Devar is interested in maintaining the security of the SPC. If something threatens it, we will gladly aid you in dealing with that danger. However, we permit nothing to hinder our pursuit of knowledge.
-Tirag Verath, head of the Department of Temporal Studies, Wizards' Council, Devar.

OOC: The mysterious island of the Devaryn Portal is a small colony of the nation Devar, its outpost in the NS setting. Devar is dominated by a group of extremely powerful wizards, and devoted to the quest for information; they have been around for an incredibly long time, and have had to move the kingdom several times to avoid getting caught by the deaths of assorted universes. Their specialty is portals, and they are one of the few groups that can actually travel between settings, but they study anything and everything. If you don't want to have to deal with them, just tell me politely and I'll sto[ pestering you.
I've been able to follow most, though not all, of the debate. Perhaps this point has been addressed, and I just missed it (alas, I have not had time to read all of the posts thoroughly), but why is there one primary timeline? We know that there is life on Earth, because we are here, but that does not preclude the possibillity of life on other worlds. Couldn't there be more than one equally valid/significant timeline?

CASTLE ESSEMBRA
High Moor Plateau
Essembra; Capital
City of Kormanthor

(Dramatically the cameras open with the futuristic view of the Cities Three Mile High Skyline. Huge passager starliners are floating next to some of the buildings boarding walkways. While various airkars, aircraft, aerial mecha starfighters, and starships of various descriptions dart about in a fury of movement. Then the camera pans around to a beautiful human woman standing on the shores of Lake Kormanthor with the Kapri Mountain Range in the background )

http://usera.imagecave.com/kormanthor/coruscant5_bg.jpg


This is Tabitha Jennings reporting for KNBC News in Essembra. Today a spokesperson of the state department reveiled that our beloved King Matthew ( First born son of Mateo II ) decided today that Kormanthor would sign and abid by the rules of the Temporal Accord of Indra Prime / constituted under Indran Law with respect to sections 152 through 176 of the Temporal Research Commission of Indra Prime Charter. We will now return you to your regularly scheduled program already in progress.


Is There AnYbOdY...........................OUT THERE? ;) PINK FLOYD QUOTE

Solarais signs the Temporal Accords, due to the need to sign something, otherwise Jiha gets bored. (Yes, this is my actual IC reason.) Also, we wish to develop temporal shielding, and we have decided to sign the treaty to help others develop this technology (though they do most likely not need it), and to obtain temporal shielding once we have been deemed worthy.

[i](/ooc I know I know, I'm prolly just being a spoil-sport with regards to science-fiction imaginations in overdrive, but I note a couple odd thorns floating about, the most gnawing question is...

Temporal Shielding: The way I read the description of this particular class of gizmo is that it effectively shields an area or ship from the ravages of temporal restructuring due to the introduction of a "Backstep" alteration to the timeline, such as assassinating a powerful figure in order to prevent or start a war, correct?

How would one be able to... develop such a thing? I'd think it would be impossible to test whether such a thing is actually effective. As soon as somebody offs a general, the timeline would restructure itself so that the reason for the "Backsteppers'" incursion into the past would either be altered, removed, or a moot issue as there is suddenly nobody looking into temporal mechanics. Those testing the shield would have no way of telling whether it worked. Its like experimenting on something that removes all traces of its own existence if the experiment is successful, even going so far as to wipe the memories of everybody even remotely aware of its existence.

Oh those kinds of questions I'm only too happy to provide answers for. The Temporal Shielding are kind of two fold in defense of temporal actions. First of all, the Temporal Shielding is designed to protect from events that alter the temporal structure of the Space/Time Continuum. This includes but is not limited to Backsteps to alter the timeline, natural or artificial temporal incursion waves, etc. Secondly, The Temporal Shields protect from any Temporal Weaponry from an artificial source. Shielding of a Temporal Nature is proportional to the level of temporal weaponry that is fired at the object with the temporal shielding. For example, a single level 4 temporal disruptor fired at a level 4 shield, would require 30 minutes to completely disable the shields. Two level 4 disruptors against a level 4 shield would lower that time down to 15 minutes. A level 3 disruptor against a level 4 shield would take 1 hour to disable the shield. The Temporal Shields only protect while they are deployed and do not protect from conventional weaponry. The Temporal Shielding requires such enormous power, that they cannot be deployed constantly, not even for Indra Prime vessels of the line. An additional drawback, is that Temporal Shielding cannot be deployed during transit of hyperspace, subspace, or any other form of travel that requires FTL transportation.

Oh those kinds of questions I'm only too happy to provide answers for. The Temporal Shielding are kind of two fold in defense of temporal actions. First of all, the Temporal Shielding is designed to protect from events that alter the temporal structure of the Space/Time Continuum. This includes but is not limited to Backsteps to alter the timeline, natural or artificial temporal incursion waves, etc. Secondly, The Temporal Shields protect from any Temporal Weaponry from an artificial source. Shielding of a Temporal Nature is proportional to the level of temporal weaponry that is fired at the object with the temporal shielding. For example, a single level 4 temporal disruptor fired at a level 4 shield, would require 30 minutes to completely disable the shields. Two level 4 disruptors against a level 4 shield would lower that time down to 15 minutes. A level 3 disruptor against a level 4 shield would take 1 hour to disable the shield. The Temporal Shields only protect while they are deployed and do not protect from conventional weaponry. The Temporal Shielding requires such enormous power, that they cannot be deployed constantly, not even for Indra Prime vessels of the line. An additional drawback, is that Temporal Shielding cannot be deployed during transit of hyperspace, subspace, or any other form of travel that requires FTL transportation.


OCC: Indra do I have to do something illegal to gain your attention now...
I thought us allies & friends, or am I mistaken? I have left you numerous
messages.... what have I done to deserve your ignoring me?

Temporal BackStep Ability: QUESTION for Indra: What about the possiblity of someone using Star Treks Method of time travel... sling shot around the sun... ie..." TIMEWARP ": Star Trek Four / Star Trek ( Original Series ) Any ship with Warp Drive could definately use this method to travel to the past, possibly even to the future.


There is no way to be able to accurately utilize that method of time travel. There would have to be a precise, and accurate utilization of a solar flare while circumventing the gravitational field of the sun.

OOC: Sorry for taking so long, I sent you a tg.

We acknowledge Kormanthor's and Solarais's signatory personnel in signing for the Temporal Accord. Thank you for agreeing to monitor the rules and regulations by signing this accord.

Well, I understand the mechanics of the shielding and the weaponry themselves, but how in the blue heck would one even go about developing even the precursor technologies to such things?

Like I stated earlier, it would be impossible to test such technologies as it would seem like conducting an experiment that wipes all memory of its existence (and its existence) from reality upon completion.

There's too many paradoxes to consider.

Such developmental projects do not leave room for trial and error.

There is no way to be able to accurately utilize that method of time travel. There would have to be a precise, and accurate utilization of a solar flare while circumventing the gravitational field of the sun.

OOC: Sorry for taking so long, I sent you a tg.


Thank You for responding Indra

IC: <<press release>>
Without any form of malice or spite, the Grand Emperor of Ruscal has declared that he will not add his signature to the Temporal Accord (Ruscal Govermental Document ID : Inter-3F214DCE237-Indra). The Grand Emperor added that "this in no way reflects my disagreement with the desire of these fine goverments to maintain the continuity of space-time. It is simply a matter of soverign rights. The Empire has the right to advance our own technological state. It is a simple thing. I will NEVER allow a entity to restrict the soverigned rights of our great Empire, especially an entity that has declared itself to an unchallengable 'supreme' position. Even if this governing council had taken the consideration to request representatives from us, the 'lesser nations.'" The Grand Emperor concluded his announcement with the reassurance that Ruscal's finest minds have always agreed to the same precautions set forth in the accord, and would continue to follow them with their future advance.

OOC:
I don't think there would be a problem with two "you"s from two differant time contimums co-existing in the same space-time. The logic against it is that the identical DNA of the two 'clones' would cause a quantum instability (no two things can be identical at the quantum level). My counter is the fact that I've had the pleasure of meeting Texas A&M University's (Whoop!) cloned feline "CC" and her mother/twin. The two, although genetically identical, are very differant. Their personalities, coat colorations are unique to each of them. As bet as i can concive it, a version of you from a diffeant spcae-time is no differant than if you had an identical twin, or clone. You may have the same DNA, but even the most minute diffenance would give you a differant quantium signature than your other. Postulate: no dangerous outcome on the quantum/molecular level will occur from the two of you existing in the same space-time. Now psycholigical, thats a whole other story (I keep seeing Bruce Willis in 12 Monkeys) :sniper:

IC: <<press release>>
Without any form of malice or spite, the Grand Emperor of Ruscal has declared that he will not add his signature to the Temporal Accord (Ruscal Govermental Document ID : Inter-3F214DCE237-Indra). The Grand Emperor added that "this in no way reflects my disagreement with the desire of these fine goverments to maintain the continuity of space-time. It is simply a matter of soverign rights. The Empire has the right to advance our own technological state. It is a simple thing. I will NEVER allow a entity to restrict the soverigned rights of our great Empire, especially an entity that has declared itself to an unchallengable 'supreme' position. Even if this governing council had taken the consideration to request representatives from us, the 'lesser nations.'" The Grand Emperor concluded his announcement with the reassurance that Ruscal's finest minds have always agreed to the same precautions set forth in the accord, and would continue to follow them with their future advance.

OOC:
I don't think there would be a problem with two "you"s from two differant time contimums co-existing in the same space-time. The logic against it is that the identical DNA of the two 'clones' would cause a quantum instability (no two things can be identical at the quantum level). My counter is the fact that I've had the pleasure of meeting Texas A&M University's (Whoop!) cloned feline "CC" and her mother/twin. The two, although genetically identical, are very differant. Their personalities, coat colorations are unique to each of them. As bet as i can concive it, a version of you from a diffeant spcae-time is no differant than if you had an identical twin, or clone. You may have the same DNA, but even the most minute diffenance would give you a differant quantium signature than your other. Postulate: no dangerous outcome on the quantum/molecular level will occur from the two of you existing in the same space-time. Now psycholigical, thats a whole other story (I keep seeing Bruce Willis in 12 Monkeys) :sniper:


Actually CC and her "mother" are quite different, and are NOT identical as everyone takes them to be. Precisely because, they did not consume the exact same molecular structures that were arranged in the exact same pattern. They may look identical, their physiological differences may be minute but there are differences. Even things such as the changing levels of solar radiation has affected the genetic structure of CC different than it has her mother. Having a twin from another alternate timeline arriving in this timeline, would be introducing something that HAS taken the exact same stimuli at the exact same time, in the exact same way, so therefore the subquantum differences would not exist. When two items of the exact same modulation enter a single environment, they would cancel each other out. Sort of like having two alternate harmonic frequencies of the same nature. If the two harmonics match each other perfectly, they cancel each other out, effectively destroying the other.

Actually CC and her "mother" are quite different, and are NOT identical as everyone takes them to be. Precisely because, they did not consume the exact same molecular structures that were arranged in the exact same pattern. They may look identical, their physiological differences may be minute but there are differences. Even things such as the changing levels of solar radiation has affected the genetic structure of CC different than it has her mother. Having a twin from another alternate timeline arriving in this timeline, would be introducing something that HAS taken the exact same stimuli at the exact same time, in the exact same way, so therefore the subquantum differences would not exist. When two items of the exact same modulation enter a single environment, they would cancel each other out. Sort of like having two alternate harmonic frequencies of the same nature. If the two harmonics match each other perfectly, they cancel each other out, effectively destroying the other.

OCC: Indra could you explain the differant types of Temporal Technology. I
would like to start some studies. But I'm not familiar enough with the
differant types to decide which I wish to study first.

Indra, just out of curiosity, how would a device that's designed to enhance the speed at which something operates by speeding up time in a local area around it be classified? I'm talking about something that, say, would allow a tank to act much faster than normal.

(I don't have such a tech under development, just curious about it)

Well, since I have defensive temporal technology, signs it!

OCC: Indra could you explain the differant types of Temporal Technology. I
would like to start some studies. But I'm not familiar enough with the
differant types to decide which I wish to study first.

Well, to begin with, there are technologies that are purely based off Temporal Mechanics, and then you have the technologies that require some temporal manipulation in order to work. A good example of the first, would be the Temporal Disruptor that is installed on every Indran Temporal Incursion Fleet Vessel. These disruptors, in laymans terms, open a semicomplete wormhole through the fabric of space/time to access the Null Space realm that exists "below" space/time. This wormhole acts as a one way conduit through the fabric of space/time and do not allow any egress from the Null Space Void. Also, that weapon scrambles the quantum signature of the target, that is unique to this universal spatial plane, which very effectively prevents any object with a scrambled QS from reentering any spatial plane, be it this one or an alternate one. Basically it effectively destroys the vessel or target.
The second type of technology is shown by the example of the PSP weapons currently installed on most heavy battle cruisers and above in the Indran Navy (space navy, that is). The PSP, or Point Singularity Projectile, cannon utilizes uniquely tuned temporal fields that negate the gravitational and temporal distortional fields that are emitted by the cannons massively "charged" projectiles. Basically, this cannon fires a microsingularity, that passes through literally, any and all matter it comes in contact with. Normal shielding does not provide protection of any consequence against the tidal and temporal forces these projectiles have as normal properties. The only way Indran Vessels are capable of transporting the microsingularities, in an inert form, is by surrounding them with the temporal field as well as high level temporal shielding.

Indra, just out of curiosity, how would a device that's designed to enhance the speed at which something operates by speeding up time in a local area around it be classified? I'm talking about something that, say, would allow a tank to act much faster than normal.

(I don't have such a tech under development, just curious about it)

Well the overall impact to the STC would be minimal, though the long range effects could be disasterous. Imagine if Germany had one temporally enhanced tank that was going against the entire First and Second Armies of the United States in WWII. If the tank was able to maneuver much faster, and be able to reload much quicker, the entire First and Second Armies would not stand a chance against a tank of that capability. If those Divisions were defeated, and Germany's hold on europe was uncontested, because of this one tank, the outcome of WWII would have been drastically different. Nuclear Arms may have been used in Europe in that alternate future/past. That is just to be an analogy, not as an example.

*pokes head into thread*

Actually, I can't see any reason that a time-warp facilitator, to use the MOO2 term, would affect the STC, unless artifically introduced from the future - but that can be said of a great many thing.



And Indra's arcument for alternate universe doubles only stands if said universe is absoloutly identical; even still, there would be a measure of divergence the moment their experiances changed in the least - the experiance of universal transit an example of such.

Well the overall impact to the STC would be minimal, though the long range effects could be disasterous. Imagine if Germany had one temporally enhanced tank that was going against the entire First and Second Armies of the United States in WWII. If the tank was able to maneuver much faster, and be able to reload much quicker, the entire First and Second Armies would not stand a chance against a tank of that capability. If those Divisions were defeated, and Germany's hold on europe was uncontested, because of this one tank, the outcome of WWII would have been drastically different. Nuclear Arms may have been used in Europe in that alternate future/past. That is just to be an analogy, not as an example.

So if some nation in the present time were to use such a device, it would not affect the timeline at all, and thus you would take no interest?

So if some nation in the present time were to use such a device, it would not affect the timeline at all, and thus you would take no interest?


Where you are concerned Axis I will take notice even if Indra doesn't
because I figure your just looking for a new way to start trouble.

http://usera.imagecave.com/Kormanthor/aurora2.jpg

Vehicle Type: HJ-58 Phoenix
Class/s: Hypersonic Bomber / Fighter / Spy Plane " I'm watching you Axis "

If you send one of your overpriced rattletraps anywhere near my territory, I will blow it out of the sky. I can be as curious as I wish, and if you dislike it that's too bad.

(OOC: You know I'm supermodern and thus do not have access to futuretech such as I described.)

If you send one of your overpriced rattletraps anywhere near my territory, I will blow it out of the sky. I can be as curious as I wish, and if you dislike it that's too bad.

(OOC: You know I'm supermodern and thus do not have access to futuretech such as I described.)

My " Overpriced Rattletrap " can photograph your entire country and leave before you can aim your weapon. :p Sorry Axis, but you are considered a known terrorist by me. I'm not going to turn my back while you attempt to screw up the STC. As to whether or not you have future tech or not I can't say for sure.
:rolleyes:

Well, to begin with, there are technologies that are purely based off Temporal Mechanics, and then you have the technologies that require some temporal manipulation in order to work. A good example of the first, would be the Temporal Disruptor that is installed on every Indran Temporal Incursion Fleet Vessel. These disruptors, in laymans terms, open a semicomplete wormhole through the fabric of space/time to access the Null Space realm that exists "below" space/time. This wormhole acts as a one way conduit through the fabric of space/time and do not allow any egress from the Null Space Void. Also, that weapon scrambles the quantum signature of the target, that is unique to this universal spatial plane, which very effectively prevents any object with a scrambled QS from reentering any spatial plane, be it this one or an alternate one. Basically it effectively destroys the vessel or target.

The second type of technology is shown by the example of the PSP weapons currently installed on most heavy battle cruisers and above in the Indran Navy (space navy, that is). The PSP, or Point Singularity Projectile, cannon utilizes uniquely tuned temporal fields that negate the gravitational and temporal distortional fields that are emitted by the cannons massively "charged" projectiles. Basically, this cannon fires a microsingularity, that passes through literally, any and all matter it comes in contact with. Normal shielding does not provide protection of any consequence against the tidal and temporal forces these projectiles have as normal properties. The only way Indran Vessels are capable of transporting the microsingularities, in an inert form, is by surrounding them with the temporal field as well as high level temporal shielding.

So....to translate all that into spoken english: "I got the uber canonz of d00m."

-Can't be stopped by shields
-Can't be stopped by armor
-Somehow damage all the things they can't be affected by

Care to explain the how and why?

My " Overpriced Rattletrap " can photograph your entire country and leave before you can aim your weapon. :p Sorry Axis, but you are considered a known terrorist by me. I'm not going to turn my back while you attempt to screw up the STC. As to whether or not you have future tech or not I can't say for sure.
:rolleyes:

OOC: Your "take pictures anywhere because j00 can't stop it lol" doohickey is ignored, as will be any attempts by you to use it. And you know well that Axis Nova has never supported any terrorist organizations, so don't be foolish.

:rolleyes:

Excuse me, please either return to the topic this was originally slated for, The Temporal Accord, or leave.

So if some nation in the present time were to use such a device, it would not affect the timeline at all, and thus you would take no interest?

Sorry, Indra... but I didn't recieve a reply from you about this yet.

IP, you could add me to the list of signatories... :rolleyes:

I most respectfully ask that The Rinceweedian Empire, composed of the Orbital Constructs of Rinceweed, and The Colony of Rinceweedian Antartica, be added as signatories of The Temporal Accord, created by the nation of Indra Prime, and signed by many other conscientious [OOC]: (Bah, can't spell that for sh*t) IC: nations.

We have been making forays into the realm of time travel using a modified version of our own Faster Than Light transportation system, and realize the dangers inherent in it. Thus, we wish to join the many nations that also have delved into this realm by signing this accord.

Yours Sincerely
Hardga Calgar
Commander of all Rinceweedian Assets

OOC:

I'm delving into travel to parallel universes via "Sliding" based off the TV series. My nation captured Quinn, Maggie, Rembrandt, and Wade Welles as they were thought to be terrorists using a new weapon aganist me (they crashed into my presidential train).

The "Sliding" device was found, and studied extensively. Sharina begins to build copies of these devices and work is being done on a larger scale "Sliding" device to allow cars, trains, planes, etc. enter parallel worlds. Also, bulk transfer terminals are being researched.

I figure this would be an excellent technology to research, because of two reasons. First, it would be a perfectly legible and plausible method of RP'ing with other nations on other Earth's. It also would allow interaction between two nations occupying the same land in a real Earth landmass / nation.

Second, it has vast RP potential, exploring "What if" worlds like if Hitler won WW2, JFK was never killed, Bush was never president, the South won the Civil War, etc.

The reason I'm posting this here is because I'm not sure if this would fall under the STC, as my nation is exploring and establishing colonies in two parallel universes... Whittier's Earth IV, and Great Sixth Reich's Earth V. This isn't time travel per-se, but I remember the debate me and Indra had regarding parallel universes and the "true" STC.

If the "Sliding" technology falls under the category of STC, then I would like to sign up for the treaty. I could become the "Parallel Universe Expert" in the organization. :)

OOC: Well, first off, you'd need to explain HOW your device works. I'm not familiar with the show...

OOC:

Here's a few links to the Sliders TV show which might shed some light on the technology and premise I'm using to visit all these Earths and different NS nations.

Here goes...

http://christine.usi-rpg.com/sliders.html

http://www.scifidimensions.com/Aug04/sliders1and2dvd.htm

However, I'm not exactly sure what type of technology is used. I'm considering using a basis in quantum physics or the Einstein's Bridge novel. I gotta work out the details and "nuances" of the Sliding Technology.

Here's a brief overviewn of the Einstein Bridge novel...

http://www.sfsite.com/05b/bridge01.htm

Hope this helps. :)

If you remember from the first episode, Quinn states that it is based on the Einstien-Rosenburg Bridge Model.

If you remember from the first episode, Quinn states that it is based on the Einstien-Rosenburg Bridge Model.

Yeah, but I can't find the "technical" details like how exactly the technology works. So I have to fill in some gaps, like how the device actually creates the Sliding Wormhole, how the wormhole connects parallel worlds, exactly why the timer is important, etc.

The Parallel Universes do not really affect this Timeline, until armies armed with the Sliding Device, start pouring in the Universe. Rest assured, that WILL cause a massive retaliatory preemptive strike on behalf of Indran Forces. And btw, if you need assistance with that device, I can assist.

The Parallel Universes do not really affect this Timeline, until armies armed with the Sliding Device, start pouring in the Universe. Rest assured, that WILL cause a massive retaliatory preemptive strike on behalf of Indran Forces. And btw, if you need assistance with that device, I can assist.

This raises an interesting point. What of nations, empires, or civilizations that occupy more than one parallel universe? If their holdings in one universe is under attack, they might have to bring in armies to help defend themselves.

I currently have holdings in 3 parallel universes.

Sharina Prime (my nation's universe)

Sharina Alpha (Earth V)

Sharina Beta (Whittier's Earth IV)

So if Sharina Alpha is under attack, then I should be permitted to pull troops from Sharina Prime and/or Sharina Beta to aid in defense aganist invaders.

In addition, I'm sending sliding teams to explore other universes, much like a Sliders version of Stargate SG-1. I'm doing this as a perfect way to interact with all NS nations (all these Earth's with different nations and even Earths with fictional continents and such).


I would like to open up relations with Indra Prime, with opening up embassies, trade, and research agreeements. In addition, I would be more than happy to lend Sharina's growing expertise in the exciting field of "Alternate Universes".

I eagerly await your response.

Live well and prosper,
President Rand Veristek

=======================
OOC:

I thought Sliders would be an excellent solution to meeting all these multiple nations across multiple Earth's. This eliminates the "Jupiter sized Earth" problem as Earth's that size cannot exist via natural means. You'd need a hell of a huge anti-grav generator to counter the massive gravity crush of a 200,000 kilometer diameter solid ball of rock.

In addition, it would open up some quite interesting "side-RP's" to break the monotony of war, murder, death, kill, genocide, and even more war.

I already have established an agency to deal with the parallel universes. It's called the SPEA, or Sharina Parallel Earth Agency (in the future it might change Earth to Universe). Perhaps our two agencies could work together in the future as your Temporal Agency focuses on time stuff, while my agency focuses on the parallel universe stuff.

Lemme know what you think. :)

I would tend to think that Indra does not have jurisdiction over parallel universes. Only things that affect the primary timeline.

OOC: Your "take pictures anywhere because j00 can't stop it lol" doohickey is ignored, as will be any attempts by you to use it. And you know well that Axis Nova has never supported any terrorist organizations, so don't be foolish.

:rolleyes:



Axis Nova to build nuclear missile silos off the coasts of all UN nations

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=359429

Axis Nova to build nuclear missile silos off the coasts of all UN nations

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=359429

As was explained later on, that was a PR maneuver to call attention to how badly worded "Law of the Sea" was. I didn't actually BUILD any.

Also, building nuclear silos off of people's coasts =/= terrorism.

As was explained later on, that was a PR maneuver to call attention to how badly worded "Law of the Sea" was. I didn't actually BUILD any.

Also, building nuclear silos off of people's coasts =/= terrorism.



It does in my book.... bub

"Terrorism: The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."

I'll let you all decide what you want from that dictionary definition of Terrorism, although i'd point out it didn't come under unlawful use, nor did it come under threatened use of force or violence since he didn't say he would use them, or even put nukes in them in the first place.

The Commonwealth of Veredia, due to a newfound interest and pursuit of temporal technology, will sign the Temporal Accord.

We acknowledge the Commonwealth of Veredia's intention to maintain absolute strict regulations regarding the research and use of Temporal Technology. We will add that nation to the Temporal Accord Signatory nations.

OOC: Hmmm sliders... The only one I've seen is this gameshow one...
"Well, I've met the female version of myself..."
"Did you have sex with her!?!?!?"

OOC:

Now back to the subject at hand...


IC:

The Balrogga Empire wishes to add their signature to the Temporal Accord in full understanding of the benifits and consequences of it's actions.

"Terrorism: The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."

I'll let you all decide what you want from that dictionary definition of Terrorism, although i'd point out it didn't come under unlawful use, nor did it come under threatened use of force or violence since he didn't say he would use them, or even put nukes in them in the first place.

I really couldn't care less what you think Rinceweed. And I really don't care
to reopen any disagreements between us. How about we just agree to
disagree and leave it at that.

The United Federation of Germanische Zustande hereby withdraws its signature from the Temporal Accord.

The UFGZ is a sovereign nation, governed by its own laws, its own codes, its own justice. We shall not be bound by an oppressive, dominating nation who forsakes its cousins. Our honor shall not be spat upon, and the UFGZ do nothing. No! We shall not be limited by any agreement which would infringe upon our rights as sentient beings!

We shall not destroy that which is the universe, we shall not destroy time, nor space. We understand that with great power comes great responsibility, but, yea, responsibility does not liscence oppression. We shall research unimpeded, bound by no nation seeking ultimate dominance.

Deal with us as you see fit, but we seek only to recover from our long desolation from great wars and destruction. We have entered into an era of peace, at long last, after centuries of warfare.

We do not intend, in any way, to use these weapons to produce problems which the Temporal Commission would have to deal.

Signed,

The United Federation of Germanische Zustande

Just in case I ever go for temporal, put my name down.

The DemonLordEnigma Empire

It is important that all nations who decide to delve into temporal research understand and fully accept the consequences to their actions of manipulation of the Space/Time Continuum. Any nation who does not sign this accord, is immediately placed on a Temporal Agency Watch List which will be monitored by all signatory nations of the Temporal Accord. Any fractures of the accords will result in sanitization of the local timeline with regards to the cancer that has appeared.

Indra... Psst, mention the council... or should I?

Ahem...

IC:
The Temporal Council, consisting at the moment of UWS, Klonor, MKII, and JJR, (I think thats all) shall see out the duties of sanitizing the Temporal Timeline of any... disruptions.

It is the official opinion of the Dominion of Mirfak that the development of any temporal weapons or time-travelling capability is a serious threat to the integrity of the Universe at large and ought to be banned completely. However, we also recognise that, as not all parties can be trusted, a strong regulatory/watchdog organization with temporal technology is necessary to prevent the less scrupulous from abusing said technology. Therefore, as sovereign ruler of Mirfak, I hereby agree to sign and abide by the preceeding treaty; with notation that our nation currently possesses no temporal technology nor has any plans or desire to develop such technology in the forseeable future. It is my personal hope that the forces behind the treaty will be able to protect us in the event of a temporal incursion.

Mirfak, your intent and declaration to sign the Temporal Accord is acknowledged and appreciated. We will do what we can to maintain the sanctity of the Space/Time Continuum.

As it stands, the Temporal Council stands at six members. Those six member nations are Indra Prime (leader of the Temporal Nations), Klonor, Jangle Jangle Ridge, and Blademasters as Senior Council Members, and Siesatia and Tappee acting as Junior Members to the council.

And me. And Klonor has left NS for a while.

Are you saying you think you are a member of the council? I think not. You must be cleared by ALL Council members. AS far as I know, I have not approved of your appointment to the council. Despite Klonor's lack of involvement with the Council, he is still a council member, and the council numbers are and will always remain at six members.

Ask Siesatia IP, and yes, Klonor's gone. If you really wish, I'll give you a link to his temporary goodbye thread.

Last time I checked, I outrank Siesatia, and I am completely aware of his "temporary goodbye". That doesnt mean you automatically have a position on the council. You have to be confirmed to the council , and as of yet, you have NOT been confirmed. end of discussion.

bump.

Time travel, and Temporal technology in general, is nothing but a menace and a plaything of irresponsible nations. It doesn't matter if your an Accord signatory or a "rogue nation," you are all mere mortals playing with something you cannot possibly comprehend. Your continued use of temporal weaponry and time travel will eventually destroy any plausability the space-time continuum has, resulting in a chaotic existance where things that should of occured thousands of years ago occur in the present, thus upsetting the future who then attempts to fix the past by sending back killer-robot-politicians which invariably screws things up even further. All Temporal research should and must be outlawed, and all practicioners of this dark art shot.

Time travel, and Temporal technology in general, is nothing but a menace and a plaything of irresponsible nations. It doesn't matter if your an Accord signatory or a "rogue nation," you are all mere mortals playing with something you cannot possibly comprehend. Your continued use of temporal weaponry and time travel will eventually destroy any plausability the space-time continuum has, resulting in a chaotic existance where things that should of occured thousands of years ago occur in the present, thus upsetting the future who then attempts to fix the past by sending back killer-robot-politicians which invariably screws things up even further. All Temporal research should and must be outlawed, and all practicioners of this dark art shot.

Good thing I'm still in MT era.

Besides, time travel can be the ultimate weapon ever devised by man as it can literally wipe out nations and their entire histories.

Suppose someone with time tech doesn't take too kindly to your words, and decides to wipe out your nation when your nation were cave-men or rough equalivent in alien-kind?

That's food for thought.

Good thing I'm still in MT era.

Besides, time travel can be the ultimate weapon ever devised by man as it can literally wipe out nations and their entire histories.

Suppose someone with time tech doesn't take too kindly to your words, and decides to wipe out your nation when your nation were cave-men or rough equalivent in alien-kind?

That's food for thought.

It's actually hard to change a single event, as time usually works itself out. Its the continued use of temporal technology and things like "time assassinations" that lead to wide-spread destability. However, as our leaders would like to remain in power they take the threat of time assassination very seriously, and thus carry personal Temporal nullifiers that prevent actual harm to their person through complex formulas we don't really understand (their mail-order, you see).

bump

Hey, Indra, can you change my nation's title on the signatories list to "The Imperial Realm of Axis Nova"?

Thanks.

Also, you never did answer my question from earlier :p

The Dominion of Mirfak has fallen, but the newly-formed Socialist Republic of Mirfak has decided with the votes of 392 out of 500 Councilors to continue the nation's enrollment in the Temporal Accord.

It's actually hard to change a single event, as time usually works itself out. Its the continued use of temporal technology and things like "time assassinations" that lead to wide-spread destability. However, as our leaders would like to remain in power they take the threat of time assassination very seriously, and thus carry personal Temporal nullifiers that prevent actual harm to their person through complex formulas we don't really understand (their mail-order, you see).

Not actually necessary. Top theorists (by top theorists I mean in real life) in the temporal field are saying that if you go back in time you actually are creating a new universe at that point in time (this eliminates the grandfather paradox that would otherwise occur). Therefore you can change things in this new universe but the old one would still remain, unchanged. Thus time travel could be used to see how an event probably occured, assuming that you dont change anything, but you would not actually be able to affect anything in this universe.

Not actually necessary. Top theorists (by top theorists I mean in real life) in the temporal field are saying that if you go back in time you actually are creating a new universe at that point in time (this eliminates the grandfather paradox that would otherwise occur). Therefore you can change things in this new universe but the old one would still remain, unchanged. Thus time travel could be used to see how an event probably occured, assuming that you dont change anything, but you would not actually be able to affect anything in this universe.


Actually that is not necessarily true. Granted it is ONE of the theories that is out there at the current moment, but it is not the primary one. As no one in human history, as far as the general public is concerned, has been able to travel forward/backward in time the theories will not be able to be proven or disproven. As a theorist in the field of Theoretical Physics, I am well aware of the different aspects and the possible theories that could actually exist with Time Travel. Quantum entanglement resulting from interferance by past/alternate present/future entities can be described in many ways but actually being proven is a different story.

Oh and the titles have been changed.

What is the primary theory going around then, and how does it account for the paradox inherent in going to a previous point along the same timeline?
P.S. I was aware that you are a theorist in this field and I am in no way trying to be disrespectful. My own temporal knowledge is merely what I have gleamed from various Discovery and Science channel shows and various articles that I have forgoten the names of. Basically I am just regurgitating information (although not mindlessly, I get the basic concepts behind some of this stuff)

Understandable. As it goes with most theories, there is not one right one and a wrong one, nor is there one more or less accepted than the other, precisely because they are all theories. Granted there are some theories that exist further outside the norm than the rest and those are taken less seriously. If a theory is at least plausible, then it is and has been accepted as a potential possibility.

The two main theories that are out there are as follows.

There is the one where a potential infinite timelines diverge from the primary timelines. Any travelling into the past would cause a divergence of a new timeline and any changes from that point would affect the secondary timeline and leave the primary timeline unscathed.

The other one is that there is one timeline and one timeline only. Any modifications made in the past would affect the future of the sole timeline.


The first theory is the one that allows for shows like Sliders and Quantum Leap, where the Second one allows for movies like The Final Countdown.

There are modifications to each theory in their own right which allow people to consider different possibilities. The modifications to each of these theories is what makes it seem like there are thousands of different possibilities for timelines to exist. For example, there are some theories where you can travel back in time and no matter what you do, you cannot change the events that have unfolded. Or you can travel back in time, and something you do, was already taken into account, just without your past/future self knowing about your involvement.

The best example I can give of this is the movie The Final Countdown. In that movie, the USS Nimitz was sent back to Dec. 6, 1941, a few hundred miles off the coast of Hawaii. They are given the chance to change the events of Dec. 7, 1941 and save the 1000+ lives lost at Pearl Harbor. With the squadron deployed ready to strike the Japanese strike force, the "timestorm" reappears and prevents any changes to the timeline. However, there were some aspects of the future that were incorporated in the past which became something like a self fulfilling prophecy.

With the theory of potential divergences from the primary timeline, aspects of modifying the timeline would be incredibly dangerous to the individual who went back in time but not for the people, and other civilizations who exist in the timeline after the point in time where the traveller reentered the space/time continuum. The ability for the traveller to return to the primary timeline he originated from is virtually impossible unless he is able to completely change everything back to normal from the point of his arrival.

There is also the theory of Unrealized Realities, a truly dangerous aspect of the Space/Time Continuum. If you want to know more about that I can fill you in at another time.

The first theory (diverging timelines from primary ones) sounds most like the one I talked about earlier. In any case, would you agree that it is not plausible to alter the primary timestream by going into the past, and if so wouldn't that make 'temporal shielding' and 'temporal weaponry' pretty much worthless?

No. With NS physics in mind, you have to be able to take into account ALL possibilities even if it would never happen that way in Real Life. AS a general case in point, Indra Prime was developed to the point where alternate timelines fade out after progression of time and become nonexistant until the point in time in which someone from the Primary Timeline cross over using some sort of dimensional shifting. After they leave the secondary timeline, that timeline fragment fades back out of existance. With the temporal tech developed by Indra Prime, we have the ability to target specific timelines and subsequently specific events in each timeline. That is one of the reasons we are seen as the most formidable nation in the field of temporal tech. At the very least we have the most advanced temporal technology and the most knowledge about the field of Temporal Mechanics and how it can relate to "modern" FT warfare. For example, one of the weapons so developed by Indra Prime utilizes temporal energy in the creation of PSPs and temporal disruptors. None of my weapons have had the capability of completely erasing an object from the past,presen, and future simultaneously due to the absolute inability to realistically RP that and be fair. All of the Temporal weapons I possess only have the ability to erase a vessel, station, planet, star from the present and the future. When people started to godmod temporal tech they basically screwed over the reputation of those nation like myself who actually RP it with any semblance of respect and intelligence. Temporal Shielding also protects our vessels from gravitational and temporal distortions from natural objects like blackholes and other anomalies. Temporal Interferance cannot be RPed successfully if all parties in the RP do not agree to the technology in the first place.

However, with me saying this, I RP this nation as a nation that has the ability to affect changes to the primary timeline, though I rarely use that ability (as it is not usually needed). It is mainly used to study the past/present/future. That was the reasoning for developing this Accord to make sure that no one else abuses the technology as this is probably the most dangerous technology in NS, if in the wrong hands (IE an evil Indra Prime).

(IE an evil Indra Prime).

Indra, you already are evil...

As no one in human history, as far as the general public is concerned, has been able to travel forward/backward in time the theories will not be able to be proven or disproven.


Haha! I have built a time machine that can go forward in time! Unfortunatly, it only does one second per second. :p






Sorry, couldn't resist. :D

For the record, Kanuckistan is a spaz, and this is an official bump.

OOC: Thanks for the bump Indra.

IC:

We ourselves have possessed advanced temporal technology, and knowledge since our inception as a empire, and then a protectorate. Due to the sheer power and scope of the technology, however, we have never used such technology, expcept the appropriate countermeasures against the shield, which was done before this accord was made.

The STC cannot be disrupted in an extreme manner that may prove dangerous. This, in combination with our debate over whether to join ESUS, and ultimately the goal of achieveing complete temporal shielding in a means that does not affect the STC, in a manner that is agreeable with other nations, we agree to sign this accord.

Arkady Gregorovich, President Speaker of Xenonier.

As the leader in the field of temporal mechanics, I can assure you, the STC can be, and has been on numerous occasions been disrupted by forces with destruction in their intent. It has only been by sheer preserverance and the skill of the combined Temporal Research Council that these effects have not been seen by the general population of the universe.

Also, our temporal shield tech is by far the most advanced in the universe. If you convert your level of development into our scale of temporal development, We are sure we can find a suitable way to assist you in developing the technology. IM or PM me for the details.

We also graciously accept you as another signatory nation to the Temporal Accord.

As the leader in the field of temporal mechanics, I can assure you, the STC can be, and has been on numerous occasions been disrupted by forces with destruction in their intent. It has only been by sheer preserverance and the skill of the combined Temporal Research Council that these effects have not been seen by the general population of the universe.

Also, our temporal shield tech is by far the most advanced in the universe. If you convert your level of development into our scale of temporal development, We are sure we can find a suitable way to assist you in developing the technology. IM or PM me for the details.

We also graciously accept you as another signatory nation to the Temporal Accord.

The co-operative development can be started as soon as nessecary or convienient.

The Ascendancy wishes to enter consideration of a stance of a signatory, as to ensure to prevention of impropriety against the well being of existing nations, as well as the history of our now many allies throughout the Universe Core Sector designated 000.0001/A by Ascendant charts.

We also do this, as part of our future exploration encompases, not time travel, but InterDimensional Exploration, on the scale a step higher past the InterUniversal level. Currently we are operating at the InterGalactic Level, so our intentions are a ways off, but this consideration is to enter a farreaching stance by Ascendancy standards.

However Time travel, except in the case to repair our own timeline, if such an occurance ever occurs, is outside our boundries, better left to entities such as this one to oversee more properly.

This we are declared in our stance,

Lord Excellency Aleaic Saloam Kerensky
Gaian First Throne

ooc: Hmmmm... I noticed that I was removed from the signatory nations of the Accord... Although I never remember asking thus this to be done. Most interesting, indeed. I also hope you refer not to my people by comments of those who would intentionally disrupt for malintent the Time-Space Continuum.

The United Federation of Germanische Zustande hereby withdraws its signature from the Temporal Accord.

The UFGZ is a sovereign nation, governed by its own laws, its own codes, its own justice. We shall not be bound by an oppressive, dominating nation who forsakes its cousins. Our honor shall not be spat upon, and the UFGZ do nothing. No! We shall not be limited by any agreement which would infringe upon our rights as sentient beings!

We shall not destroy that which is the universe, we shall not destroy time, nor space. We understand that with great power comes great responsibility, but, yea, responsibility does not liscence oppression. We shall research unimpeded, bound by no nation seeking ultimate dominance.

Deal with us as you see fit, but we seek only to recover from our long desolation from great wars and destruction. We have entered into an era of peace, at long last, after centuries of warfare.

We do not intend, in any way, to use these weapons to produce problems which the Temporal Commission would have to deal.

Signed,

The United Federation of Germanische Zustande



Here is where you requested to have your signature withdrawn from the Accord.

I remember now. Alrighty. I feel like another rant....

We're sorry, but you have already reached your rant quota for this thread. Try again next month.

bump

The Incorporated Systems of Ald Rhun respectfully requests to sign the filthy xeno scum's Accord.

The Principality of Drakhen ,formally requests, our nation be added to the accord. We do not currently posses such devices of time travel. Such research will be under the strictest control, and followings of the accord.

-His majesty Lord Fenix III-

"The Galactic Hegemony of Neo-Mekanta, under my watch and by order of my Devas, continues in our refusal to sign the Temporal Accord."

"I care not for your temporal technology, and maintain the influence of the Zircon's Time Crushers over my domain to nullify temporal technology and those who dare use this abomination..."

"Stay away from Neo-Mekanta with your temporal technologies, and we will be... tolorant..."

-Minagoroshi
Goddess of Neo-Mekanta

The government of Dratheria would like to sign the temporal accord

All nations to this point have been added to the accord.

After a longstanding policy of going against the Temporal Accord for some reasons (read: ignore of the temporal tech), the Imperial Republic of Coreworlds has decided to reverse it's policy and sign the Accord. There is of course the possibility of us developing such tech, and would like pre-comply with the international community before we do so.

Signed:
Jedi Knight Daniel Masaki, Heir to the Throne of Coreworlds

OOC:
I'm about to plan a temporal RP and as soon as I clear my other RPs, I'll be able to have...time to begin it. (no pun intended)

OOC: Consider this message to be received after the Coup...

Missive from Triad Primarch Baron Aeraeon Skye.

Greetings.

We have recently begun research on Temporal Technology, and after reading through some of the bureaucratic paperwork our predecessors left behind, we just recently discovered the existence of this governing body.

Of course, far be it for us to operate against the wishes of such a large entity.

It has been deemed in the best interests to sign this accord and reap whatever benefits doing so would provide.

We look forward to further communications.

~Triad Primarch Baron Aeraeon Skye

To the Primarch of the Godulani Empire:

Status as a signatory nation of the Temporal Accord does not allow for any benefits in the area of research, as is stated in the Accord itself, sharing of technology or information is expressly forbidden.

You only fall under the protection from destruction at the hands of Temporal Incursion fleets, which failed to eliminate Federal Forces in blatant disregard for the Indran supremacy in this technological field at the Battle of Normandeicht in the ESUS/Mekantan-UFGZ war.

Although there are no negative repurcussions to signing the Accord, it does severly limit the capabilities of signatory nations (for the most part), and establishes the supreme rule of a select few, and even one nation, which may not always pass wise and sound judgement.

Yours for decision,

Federal Military High Command

Official Communique to the Beloved Potentate of Indra Prime:

As per our arrangement, we will be signing this. Thank you again for your business partnership.

[signed]
CEO Sara Resi
The Resi Corporation

And as per our agreement, your signature will be added immediately. Thank you for your assistance.

All other nations to this point have been added to the Accord.

Official Government Transmission
From:Flaming Souls Committee Chairpeople


In accordance with the mandates set forth in this accord we feel that it would be in our best interest to sign this document.

Signed,
Chairperson Ruhn

OOC: Its always an honor to add a nation from the first years of NS.

IC: With following accordance of this treaty, I welcome your added signature of this Accord.

bump

Her Majesty's Government was prepared to sign this treaty. However, upon seeing how your organisation is perfectly willing to knowingly and deliberately destroy civilian targets en-mass in the event of a breach of the articles of the Temporal Accord, association with this treaty is impossible.

Prime Minister John Jacobi
The Constitutional Monarchy of Bretonia

We do not threaten Civilian Targets. We target only military and research installations with the minimalistic damage possible to surrounding areas. Only if a nation continues to stubbornly research technology they should not be allowed to, the capturing of significant target areas is our next goal. At no time do we specifically target noncombatant civilians or people who have no involvement in these endeavours.

Apologies, but as your apparently standardised threat includes the words "you have four Temporal Warships poised to target and destroy your military and civilian infrastructure", we made the assumption that you would systematically destroy civilian targets regardless of affiliation with temporal technologies projects.

If assurances can be made that this is not the case, then Bretonia can be considered a signatory nation.

Prime Minister John Jacobi
The Constitutional Monarchy of Bretonia

We do not threaten Civilian Targets. We target only military and research installations with the minimalistic damage possible to surrounding areas. Only if a nation continues to stubbornly research technology they should not be allowed to, the capturing of significant target areas is our next goal. At no time do we specifically target noncombatant civilians or people who have no involvement in these endeavours.
You do realize that that could easily be abused, especially by those who are not as...enlightened as we are. It has happened before and it will happen again.

Public statement by Vinessa Burkavik on the Temporal Accord (12/03/2916):

Mirfak joined the Temporal Accord to gain protection from it, nothing more. This has been publicly stated by the Council. We have absolutely no interest in its regulations, as we posess no temporal technology. It's leaders are a strong-arm enforcement agency that excercise jurisdiction where they have none but by the doctrine of their own might. The Temporal Accord itself is an affront to the national sovereignty of nations that wish to develop temporal technology for their own protection without the oversight of an international consortium. Indra Prime's organization is a band of glorified vigilantes.

All that said, the Temporal Accord successfully guards against a very real and very serious threat to the entire universe as we know it. The Mirfakan government regards Indra Prime and the Temporal Accord as a necessary evil in that respect, and in that light has seen fit to gain their protection. If we develop defensive temporal technology, we will seek official permission to use it; but if permission is denied we will not be compelled to stop short of providing the best protection we can to our people from any threat, temporal or otherwise.

You all have our word that civilians will NOT be targets of any military action against any nation who is acting without approval of the Temporal Accord. That said let me make myself perfectly clear, Civilians are individuals, who take no participation in the discovery, development or deployment of such technologies. Meaning, individuals who do the Research and Development of Temporal technologies and individuals who are a part of the military forces that employ the technology are NOT considered civilians and are protential high threat risks to the sanctity of the Space/Time Continuum. If nations go as far as to place their military installations and research locations in major civilian population centers, Alternate means will be used, which will result it the minimal civilian casualties as possible. This could be anything from precision tactical weapons, to ground troops with immobilizer pulse weapons.

Nations who acknowledge and accept the Temporal Accord for what it is, a protection of the space/time continuum, nations who have signed the accord, despite any adverse feelings towards the senior members in the field, will be allowed to develop their own technology over time. We have no intention of denying any nation who signs the Accord, unless they specifically attempt to advance faster than they are allowed by the Accord itself, which they have signed.

A Question Upon Which The Citizens Of The UFGZ Ponder:

If Indra Prime is so advanced, cannot they simply precision-target any persons and facilities involved and erase them from the present and future? Thereby reducing any and all civilian casualties to zero?

We would very much appreciate an answer...

Perhaps, but you try to pick out an object out of a crowd that appears to be about 2 feet wide and 1 deep from an altitude of a few thousand kilometers. it would be extremely difficult to be that precise.

Perhaps, but you try to pick out an object out of a crowd that appears to be about 2 feet wide and 1 deep from an altitude of a few thousand kilometers. it would be extremely difficult to be that precise.

To get an idea, it would look something like this:

~Techwanks to get the technology to step into reality. Does so, targets Bush from orbit, and opens fire with disruptor cannons. The entire White House is promptly destroyed because of the immense shots. Then goes back to NS and untechwanks.~

Thanks DLE for explaining it so precisely.

Indra Prime, after reading the lastest debates and arguements here, I would like to bring up a couple of points.

You may or may not remember our debates about different timelines and universes last fall. We discussed about possibilities of branching out from STC timelines and alternate universes and quantum signatures.

I was wondering if your accord covers your particular STC timeline, with your accord allies involved? What of other universes where the Indra Prime civilization never developed, or universes where Indra Prime never developed temporal tech? Or universes where Humanity never evolved?

I truly believe that there are more than one STC, as in your universe, you go by your STC with the timeline of your particular universe, and possible branches off it (Suppose there's a divergent point where Indra Prime gets a new leader, and the "true" STC Indra Prime universe timeline keeps its "old" leader).

However, for an universe where humanity never evolved (HNE), there is a STC for that universe and possible branches off it. Universes #1, #2, #3 fir instance...

HNE Universe 1 = Dinosaurs go extinct from an asteroid, but mammals never evolved "higher brain functions" which turned them into proto-humans or any semblance of intelligent sentient life on Earth. This is Primary HNE STC timeline.

HNE Universe 2 = Dinosaurs don't go extinct as the dino-killer asteroid never hit Earth. Dinosaurs prevent mammals from evolving, hence no Humans.

HNE Universe 3 = Dinosaurs don't go extinct as the dino-killer asteroid never hit Earth. However, Dinosaurs evolve into sentient Dino-soids, creating a Dino Civilization.

As you can see, there is a STC line running through these universes, with a common theme, whereas Humanity never evolved. I believe there are multiple STC's running through time-space, not one single STC.

Besides, how can you be certain that this actual universe we all live in is actually the STC, the STC that originated at the creation of the whole of existence? For all we know, we could be on STC #2, #72, #972979, etc. For all we know, Humanity might have created its own unique STC, meaning that in only 0.00001% of all parallel universes, Humans evolved / exist. The other 99.99999% of infinite universes, humans never evolved or existed. Or it could be the other way around, Humanity evolved in 99% of all universes, and the other 1% of universes has no Humans in it whatsoever? How can we be certain of this situation one way or other?




So, back to the point at hand, your temporal accord would apply to your STC, no problem as your civilization would exist within it, with technologies that allow you access to "nearby" parallel universes that resemble yours closely with subtle differences (like different presidents, sons instead of daughter, married a high school sweetheart instead of college sweetheart, etc.). Are you willing to impose the accord on other STC's where your civilization never evolved, developed, or existed? It would be impossible to enforce the Temporal Accord on the infnite number of parallel universes and STC's.

I hate to interupt anything, but I think you will see I am responded to your other thread... what was it called... Upholding the Accord, I think.

Let me see if I can explain it for you

There is only one space/time continuum for this multiverse. The STC contains all possible realities, quantum parallel universes, all timelines (primary, secondary, tertiary, etc) as well as all unrealized realities. There is also only one Absolute Present Moment in the flow of space/time. Meaning even with time travel, the present always continues to move forth at its normal rate (1 second per second basically) This is the basis of Metatime. where no matter what happens to the timeline, be it altered with the presence of a Temporal Causality Loop or a temporal Paradox, the term of here and now, exists only here and now not in a different place in the timestream. even if time itself slows down, there is still a single present not multiple ones. Its all a matter of perspective basically. There is always something further out than the center so basically even if the entire multiverse was exponentially slown down by the Melting Clock effect, whenever it was corrected, the time would correct itself, and restabilize with the surrounding temporal flow. The perspective of the unaffected timeflow would remain correct as the Absolute Present Moment. So in effect, if ten thousand years passed for the "outside world" and only two minutes passed for the "inner world" the outer world would be accurate and retain the APM.

The realities that exist where Indra Prime didnt develop, Indra Prime didnt develope temporal technology, Dinosaurs still roam the earth, Dinosaurs killed off all the mammals and then they themselves were killed are all different quantum realities and different timelines. The theory the Temporal Accord is based upon is that the Conciousness of people and everything that is supposed to exist, continues to do so, in the Primary Timeline. Any significant changes that do not make it to the Primary Timeline are shied off into a secondary timeline or a parallel earth that "fades out of existance" in the metaphysical sense. Only when a conciousness from the Primary Timeline crosses the dimensional boundary between Primary and Secondary Timeline does the parallel universe "reappear" for as long as the Primary Unit is in the alternate timeline. The alternate timeline is still a part of the overall space/time continuum, but NOT a separate Primary Timeline with a separate APM. Then you also have to deal with quantum interferance. with multiple bodies with the same quantum spin.once the PU leaves the ST and returns to the PT the ST begins to "fade out" as one does metaphysically speaking. thus leaving the PT to continue on its course. The Time one spends in the ST passes for th PT as well so if youre in the ST for a total of 168 hours or one week, one week passes in the Primary Timeline as well. Thus the basis of Metatime.

I'm quite looking forward to another round of temporal debate with ya, Indra Prime. I rather enjoy it. :D

Let me see if I can explain it for you

There is only one space/time continuum for this multiverse. The STC contains all possible realities, quantum parallel universes, all timelines (primary, secondary, tertiary, etc) as well as all unrealized realities. There is also only one Absolute Present Moment in the flow of space/time. Meaning even with time travel, the present always continues to move forth at its normal rate (1 second per second basically) This is the basis of Metatime. where no matter what happens to the timeline, be it altered with the presence of a Temporal Causality Loop or a temporal Paradox, the term of here and now, exists only here and now not in a different place in the timestream. even if time itself slows down, there is still a single present not multiple ones. Its all a matter of perspective basically. There is always something further out than the center so basically even if the entire multiverse was exponentially slown down by the Melting Clock effect, whenever it was corrected, the time would correct itself, and restabilize with the surrounding temporal flow. The perspective of the unaffected timeflow would remain correct as the Absolute Present Moment. So in effect, if ten thousand years passed for the "outside world" and only two minutes passed for the "inner world" the outer world would be accurate and retain the APM.

I understand what you mean by this. Basically what you're saying is "What you see through your eyes right now at this exact moment in time".

However, this does bring up an interesting point. I have been thinking on this, and I am wondering about the following question. "Is it possible to have multiple Absoulete Present Moments (APM) in Time?". With time travel, as well as the issue of reincarnation, it is possible, I believe.

For instance... I'll present several people. No pun intended. Haha. :p

Person A is here, right now in April 18, 2005 A.D.
Person B is "experiencing the world" or living at an APM of October 5, 2832 A.D.
Person C is travelling at 98% speed of light, and time dilution occurs, according to Einsteins law of relativity.
Person D is on a ship sinking into a black hole, with time dilution on a greater scale.

Person A is experiencing his / her own APM right here, right now, as we are typing our discussion on an internet forum. Therefore, his / her APM is April 18, 2005 A.D. Time flows along at 1 second per 1 second for that particular person, creating his own APM in his own "existence".

Person B's APM will be October 5, 2832 A.D. as she sits in a chair on a spaceship "warping" from Earth to Alpha Centauri. She will be experiencing her APM as she is going along with space/time at that precise moment in October 5, 2832 A.D. and not April 18, 2005 A.D. as Person A is experiencing. I shall call this "APM #2".

Now we have two "PRESENT" periods of time, one in 2005 and one in 2832.

Person C is on a starship travelling at 98% speed of light, or 0.98 FTL speed. When objects travel nearer and nearer the speed of light, it is theoretical that time would pass normally for the person inside the ship, while time passes faster outside of the ship. A person spends 1 year in the starship at 0.98 FTL speed, and 20 years pass by on Earth in the meantime.

This would mean that the "Earth-Time" will be the Meta-time, correct? However, the person and material inside the field of effect of the starship would not experience the Meta-time, as food wouldn't spoil, a baby wouldn't turn into a teenager, etc. during the 1 year trip in the starship, but this would happen on Earth (the baby would turn into a teenager, food would spoil, etc.).


So, I envision multiple PRESENT's because the illusion of a single PRESENT is an extremely depective one. There are an infinite number of PRESENT's in the space-time continuum, as people living 100 years ago would be experiencing PRESENT at that point of time 100 years ago, and people living 500 years in the future would be experiencing the PRESENT at that point of time.

If we jump back a few hours, days, months, years, or centuries into the past, our "past" becomes the PRESENT we would be experiencing. The same can be said about the future.

The realities that exist where Indra Prime didnt develop, Indra Prime didnt develope temporal technology, Dinosaurs still roam the earth, Dinosaurs killed off all the mammals and then they themselves were killed are all different quantum realities and different timelines. The theory the Temporal Accord is based upon is that the Conciousness of people and everything that is supposed to exist, continues to do so, in the Primary Timeline. Any significant changes that do not make it to the Primary Timeline are shied off into a secondary timeline or a parallel earth that "fades out of existance" in the metaphysical sense. Only when a conciousness from the Primary Timeline crosses the dimensional boundary between Primary and Secondary Timeline does the parallel universe "reappear" for as long as the Primary Unit is in the alternate timeline. The alternate timeline is still a part of the overall space/time continuum, but NOT a separate Primary Timeline with a separate APM. Then you also have to deal with quantum interferance. with multiple bodies with the same quantum spin.once the PU leaves the ST and returns to the PT the ST begins to "fade out" as one does metaphysically speaking. thus leaving the PT to continue on its course. The Time one spends in the ST passes for th PT as well so if youre in the ST for a total of 168 hours or one week, one week passes in the Primary Timeline as well. Thus the basis of Metatime.

Hmm. This is the point I'm trying to address here.

Your Indra Prime's consciousness exists in your timeline, or so to speak, making *it* your primary timeline. However, for a Dinosaur Civilization, their universe would be *their* primary timeline.

So to your Indra Prime with Time Tech civilization would consider the Dinosaur Civilization universe as a "faded-out" timeline / universe, while the Dinosaur Civilization with Time Tech would consider Indra Prime's universe as a "faded-out" timeline.

For your Indra Prime civilization, your current universe appears to be your STC, while the Dinosaur Civilization would view / treat their universe as their STC.

Hope that clears what I was trying to ask / inquiry about in my previous post.



Another point I'd like to address is the "Different PRESENT's" issue. There is a possibility that there are universes where the "Big Bang" didn't happen for 1,000 more years, or Earth formed 15 years earlier.

So in the "Late Big Bang" universe, our PRESENT moment timeline would be 1005 A.D. and we'd still be wielding swords, shields, riding horses, etc. in Medieval times.

In the "Early Earth" universe, our PRESENT moment would be 2020 A.D. with technology, climate, etc. of what would happen 15 years from our "real" PRESENT of 2005 A.D.

I am trying to sort these things out to better understand where and what you're coming from, and also to make sure I understand your stance as well. :)

To simply answer your question, no. There cannot be multiple Absolute Present Moments in the Space/Time Continuum. With the fact of time travel the APM does not change location according to each individual's perspective. Think of it like a Maglev Train. the cars of the Train are the APM when the Track itself if the River of Time, or Timestream. As a person in the Maglev can technically jump out of the train and land on the track forward or backward in relative position to the train itself. If its in the rear of the train, the distance between the person and the train continues to increase, while if it were in the front, well, you know, the person would now last very long until the train caught up with him and began to "drag" him along once again. Kind of a gruesome example, but lo and behold it actually works.

With the relativistic effects of Speeds approaching the Speed of Light (SoL) and the intense gravity of a black hole or other massive stellar body, that would be similar to being thrown off the train to the rear but with a bungee cord attached to the person so that when the person got out of the intense gravity or the speed close to the SoL, the bungee cord would compress itself and yank the person back to the train.

There would not be multiple "presents" but the perspectives of those two people would be the exact same APM although separated by 827 years. There are not two APMs, just the one with two different perspectives set roughly 26,090,251,200 seconds apart. The APM in 2005 would take that long to reach the point in time of the year 2832, roughly speaking.

Events have a way of restructuring themselves into a Primary Timeline in which Conciousness exists. (Try asking yourself, why is your conciousness interacting in this timeline instead of one of the other ones. Answer, is because lifeforms have one conciousness that migrates to the Primary Timeline at any major decision point at which the PT splits off into a PT and a ST.

The APM remains the same throughout the entire Multiverse which includes alternate realities, parallel dimensions, and different timelines. Even if the Big Bang held itself off til five minutes ago, the APM would still exist at the location is always is, travelling down the Timestream one second per second.

Things that might exist in an Antitime fashion, would behave quite as normally as anything existing in a Timely fashion (pun probably intended :D) however they would experience an AntiTime APM. Basically it would travel in reverse and would not be understandable to our type of lifeform. According to our APM, the entity, anomaly, whatever would appear to grow smaller until dissapearing altogether. We would appear the same to it.

To jump on the question that I KNOW must be going through your mind right now, How do we know which is the "Correct" Timestream?

The only answer I can possibly think of, is the fact that our conciousness is travelling in this direction of the Timestream so therefore, must be the way we must look at things, or else you will make yourself dizzy for a month trying to look at everything upsidedown, backwards, and inverted.

There can certainly be more than one universe in Nationstates, as it's freeform RP.

*puts himself in a universe where the Temporal Accord can't exist*

There can certainly be more than one universe in Nationstates, as it's freeform RP.

*puts himself in a universe where the Temporal Accord can't exist*

That certainly saves time.

From the Alphin, with permission of the Council:

"Indra Prime's analysis fails to take into account multiple dimensions, the existence of which is generally known and proven. With such a narrow view of the nature of temporal mechanics, it is hard to believe they are a dedicated temporal research conglomerate. Mirfak is issuing an official call for removal of Indra Prime as leader of the Temporal Accord and a reworked organizational constitution."

OOC: Did I say anywhere, that there couldnt be multiple multiverses? Cause as far as I'm concerned I could care less if there were. You want your own little multiverse, go right ahead. Each multiverse can have their own STC. The Information I provided talks ONLY about ONE multiverse, which is as accurate as can possibly be.

To simply answer your question, no. There cannot be multiple Absolute Present Moments in the Space/Time Continuum. With the fact of time travel the APM does not change location according to each individual's perspective. Think of it like a Maglev Train. the cars of the Train are the APM when the Track itself if the River of Time, or Timestream. As a person in the Maglev can technically jump out of the train and land on the track forward or backward in relative position to the train itself. If its in the rear of the train, the distance between the person and the train continues to increase, while if it were in the front, well, you know, the person would now last very long until the train caught up with him and began to "drag" him along once again. Kind of a gruesome example, but lo and behold it actually works.

I understand that much better. Thanks for clearing that misconception for me. :)

With the relativistic effects of Speeds approaching the Speed of Light (SoL) and the intense gravity of a black hole or other massive stellar body, that would be similar to being thrown off the train to the rear but with a bungee cord attached to the person so that when the person got out of the intense gravity or the speed close to the SoL, the bungee cord would compress itself and yank the person back to the train.

Again, thanks for clearing that up. However, I am curious. What if a permanent state is created, or a completely new timestream comes into being?

What I mean by this is, suppose in 1000 more years, we develop technology advanced enough to create a city or something inside a black hole. Assuming that the Space City is able to withstand the gravity forces of the black hole indefinitely, or put the Space City in a permament state of 0.99999999 SoL (Speed of Light).

Now, the Space City would have its own timestream, as it would be experiencing 1 year in it for every 100 years in a black hole, or 1 year in the Space City in permanent 99.99999% of FTL for every 10,000 years at 0% of FTL speed.

Assuming that this would continue indefinitely, a new timestream is created, as there would be two distinct timestreams going on. The timestream where we all are in right now, and the "slow" timestream in a perma-semi-FTL state, or perma-residence in a black hole or other immense gravitic mass.

Now, lets take this a step further.

Suppose the "normal" universe ends in some sort of Big Crunch or all the fuel of all the stars burn themselves out. Now, the Space City in the black hole would be subject to the "Universe End" as it has been theorized that black holes will eventually die out in a googol years (googol = 1 with 100 zeros after it). Thus, the timestream in the black hole Space City will revert back to the "normal" one, merging back into one timestream.

However, the semi-FTL Space City will be able to survive the end of the universe, and consquently time. Suppose we accelerate the Space City to a googol'th percent just shy of true FTL, as in 1 ^ -100 (or in other words, 99.9999999~~~~~~99999 % of FTL speed) then time would be radically different. 1 year in this "hyper" semi-FTL state would mean possibly trillions or more years in normal state.

Unlike black holes, the Space City is in motion in semi-FTL. Point the Space City in a direction beyond the edge of the known universe, on a trajectory that will avoid all galaxies and inter-galaxy collision / fusions (like the Milky Way is going to fuse with Andromeda Galaxy billions of years later, due to Andromenda crashing into Milky Way). This would mean that there will be no way for the Space City to destruct or recieve interference (other than the theorized "dark matter" in the dark, empty areas of space).

Then once the galaxies burn out, or are gobbled up into black holes in their centers, the semi-FTL Space City would still be in transit. It would avoid all galaxies, thereby avoiding most of the pull of the black holes that are theoretically gobbling up them (galaxies). Traveling at 99.99999~~~~~~9999% of FTL would mean that it would be able to resist being pulled into the galaxies, as the gravity power of these black holes would be weak in the void between galaxies.

Thus, the Space City continues to travel on. Once all the stars burn out, the black holes dissipiate, and so forth in a googol years, the universe would be a space of nothingness, an eternal void. Time would basically become non-existant as there would be nothing left to "happen" in the universe in that "End-of-Time" period. Nothing would exist save for the Space City.

The Space City finally decelerates, and brings itself back into real-space, bringing back the chaos that is inherent in living and non-living matter (atoms interact with each other and the like). Time is "brought back" to the universe by the lone Space City in an infinite expanse of nothingness, so our Primary timeline would merge INTO the Space City's timestream instead of the other way around.

There would not be multiple "presents" but the perspectives of those two people would be the exact same APM although separated by 827 years. There are not two APMs, just the one with two different perspectives set roughly 26,090,251,200 seconds apart. The APM in 2005 would take that long to reach the point in time of the year 2832, roughly speaking.

Understood.

However, I still believe that there is an infinite number of "presents", not APM's as I believe the sense of a singular "present" is a masterful illusion, owing to dimensional existence.

We are 3-D beings living in a 3-D universe. In a 1-D universe, there are only lines, going in one infinite direction, "length" which stretches from 1 point to another, and onwards beyond that point (like "rays" in basic geometery).

In a 2-D universe, there are only flat surfaces stretching in two infinite directions, "width" and "length".

In a 3-D universe, there is the addition of "depth", allowing three infinite directions, "width", "length", and "height". Cubes, spheres, cylinders, pyramids, etc. are the norm here. We can move in any 3 of these infinite direction axes, the X, Y, and Z. This is the universe we live in, and experience everyday.

In a 4-D universe, we will experience 4 infinite directions, namely "width", "length", "height" and "time". We can choose to freely move through any of those 4 directions, hence time travel is natural in this dimension, whereas it is not in our current 3-D universe.

Now, to the inhabitants of a 1-D universe, the concept of having surface, or a 2-D existence would be claimed as impossible, just like time travel is considered far-fetched / impossible in our 3-D universe. People in a 1-D universe would postulate that they can only experience a 2-D existence in an instant.

However, people living in a 2-D universe would be able to experience "surface" at ANY point in their existence. However, these 2-D people would consider height like time travel, impossible and farfetched. However, they may realize / theorize about its existence in the "next dimension". To us, height is natural, as we see everything at different heights throughout our lives, like tall people, short straws, truncated surfaces, etc.

We in the 3-D universe have discovered and realized the existence of a 4th dimension, known as time. However, we have no means or method to actually cross over into the "next dimension" where time is just as natural to the people there as height is natural to us in our dimension. People living in a "true" 4-D universe would be able to experience the past, present, and future all at once, just as we experience "height" all at once in comparison to 2-D beings just discovering the existence of "height".

Finally, to 1-D beings, the existence of a 3-D, 4-D, or 5-D universe would be too distant for them to accurately determine / consider / theorize about, until they move into the 2-D universe. Then the 1-D beings in a 2-D universe would be able to experience a 2-D existence, then be able to "spring off" from there and start theorizing about the next plane of existence.

To 2-D beings, the concept of "time" would be beyond them, just like a 5-D existence is beyond us. We haven't truly discovered a 5-D existence or concepts yet. However, we do believe that there *is* a 5-D, but to prove it? We would have to move up the "scale" into the 4-D universe then from there to the 5-D universe and so forth.

So in summary, a 2-D singular instanteous "surface" would be an illusion to 1-D beings, but it would be natural for 2-D beings to constantly experience singular surfaces all the time, such as grids of squares or a surface of many triangles, etc. Then, an instanteous "height" would be an illusion to 2-D beings, as they do not have the ability to experience 3-D "at any time" in a 2-D universe, but we 3-D beings experience "height" at any time in any point in our lives.

Therefore, the concept of one singular "present" to us 3-D beings would be commonplace and "anywhere, anytime" for 4-D beings. For those 4-D beings, there would be an infinite number of "presents" to experience, just as there is an infinite number / amount of "height / depth" for us 3-D'ers to experience.

Events have a way of restructuring themselves into a Primary Timeline in which Conciousness exists. (Try asking yourself, why is your conciousness interacting in this timeline instead of one of the other ones. Answer, is because lifeforms have one conciousness that migrates to the Primary Timeline at any major decision point at which the PT splits off into a PT and a ST.

Interesting, Indra Prime. I have thought about this, and I must ask a few questions / rationale for this.

What if I met a group of inter-universe travelers arriving in my universe (Universe A), and decide to join them on their next "jump" to the next universe, which will be called Universe B.

Universe A is the one we are currently in here and right now. Universe B is an universe where 9/11 terrorist attacks never happened aganist the World Trading Center and the Pentagon. In Universe B, security is still lax, and the WTC towers are still standing in 2005 A.D.

Now, when I jump from Universe A into Universe B, my consciousness would depart Universe A, and enters Universe B. This means that Universe A would fade, and Universe B would become my new primary universe. I go visit the WTC tower, and go to the sky lounge to look out the windows like tourists do. Then I make a new girlfriend who works in a gift shop on the Sky Lounge.

However, I would be aware that this eventuality does not exist in my home universe, as there is no WTC anymore to visit the Sky Lounge there. I wouldn't have that new girlfriend in my home universe. But these events are happening to me in the WTC universe, namely Universe B. This means my consciousness is experiencing two universes at the same time, as my physical and mental existence is currently in Universe B which makes it the primary universe "at the moment" but my mind and consciousness remembers my life / family / growing up in Universe A, the one I grew up in.


Another issue I was wondering about. We may consider our consciousness here, right now, to be following our universe's timeline and "choices at divergence".

But what of the consciousness and minds of people who end up on these divergent universes? They would consider their consciousness in that universe as the primary universe, and they would consider our universe as the divergent universe.

I believe that there is a barrier preventing our consciousness from experiencing all these universes at once. Take soda cans for example. There are 100 soda cans, with exact same characterstics, logo, text, pictures, graphics, weight, mass, dimensions, etc. That would be a small cut-away of the multiverse.

Now, we have individual atoms that comprise the soda liquid itself. Lets treat these atoms as individual people consciousness, like yourself and myself. For this example, assume all the atoms are indentical, meaning, same electrons, protons, and neutrons, which would be "frozen" in the exact same position.

So, there would be identical consciousness, but with different memories and experiences (having a sister instead of a brother, being married instead of engaged, having 3 more scars on yourself, etc.) Basically, you'll still be you, viewing the world through your eyes, ears, smell, etc. just in different universes / worlds.

The metal would be the barrier in these soda cans, preventing our consciousness "atom of soda water" from mingling in with all 100 soda cans. To us, in, say, soda can #40, we would consider it as our rightful and primary universe, solely because our consciousness exists in it. However, our counterparts in soda can #77 would think the exact same thing, and consider their universe and consciousness as the "true" universe.


Now, if we develop some sort of technology that allows us to link minds, such as neural interface or something similiar. We find a way to clone a person, Bill, place both clones in Universe A with no WTC, and Universe B with WTC. We then use neural interface to connect the minds of Universe A clone Bill to Universe B clone Bill. Thus, Bill would become a double-consciousness person, experiencing both universes at the same time, and would treat both universes as his primary universe.

This would be similiar to sticking a straw between two soda cans, allowing transfer of thought between the identical frozen atoms in both soda cans.


I wonder, is this possibly a 5-D existence? Consciousness spanning multiple universes, similiar to our consciousness percieving multiple 3-D objects in our universe at once?

I honestly believe that this would be something akin to god-hood. A 2-D being would appear as a god to a 1-D being, we 3-D beings would appear as a god to a 2-D being, and to us the Christian / Muslim / Buddha / Jew / etc. God would be a 4-D being come to visit us.

The APM remains the same throughout the entire Multiverse which includes alternate realities, parallel dimensions, and different timelines. Even if the Big Bang held itself off til five minutes ago, the APM would still exist at the location is always is, travelling down the Timestream one second per second.

That is true.

I do understand the APM as an universal constant, just like the laws of motion, therodynamics, gravity, etc. I also can understand the APM as a steady vertical line that slides to the right at a constant rate, never stopping. I am merely trying to make sure I understand your definition of the APM correctly, as viewed from different angles and possibilities.

I must raise the question that needs to be asked. Lets use your example of "Big Bang held itself off until 5 minutes ago in an alternate universe".

Time wouldn't exist in that universe 6 minutes ago, 10 minutes ago, or a billion years ago. That universe wouldn't be existing at all, but at the same time, our universe does / did exist 6 minutes ago, 10 minutes ago, and a billion years ago.

The APM in that universe would essentially be zero, until the universe enters existence 5 minutes ago, for without time, there would be no APM. If the APM is all-encompassing of the entirety of the infinite multi-verse, then the APM would have "gaps" in it (where it wouldn't exist) for these universes that haven't come into existence *yet* such as a Big Bang happening tomorrow in alternate universe #987279117987. The APM would then apply to alternate universe #987279117987 starting tomorrow, onwards until alternate universe #987279117987 collapses back into nothingness.

Once again, these "universal constant" laws wouldn't exist in "non-existence" namely in the nothingness before creation or Big Bang. You cannot apply universal laws if there is nothing for them to act upon. How can there be gravity if there is absoulete zero mass? How can there be motion and velocity if there is no object to measure / apply motion and velocity to? How can there be tempatures for things that are literally not there? The same can be said for the APM. How can you measure time if there is no time, and no "action" or objects to apply the time constant to?

To put it simply, how can you measure / apply laws to a void where not a single atom, object of energy or mass, and time exists?

Things that might exist in an Antitime fashion, would behave quite as normally as anything existing in a Timely fashion (pun probably intended :D) however they would experience an AntiTime APM. Basically it would travel in reverse and would not be understandable to our type of lifeform. According to our APM, the entity, anomaly, whatever would appear to grow smaller until dissapearing altogether. We would appear the same to it.

Basically, I can see this as two APM's, or mirror images of one APM.

Time = Positive APM of 1 second per 1 second.
Anti-Time = Negative APM of 1 second per second.

To jump on the question that I KNOW must be going through your mind right now, How do we know which is the "Correct" Timestream?

The only answer I can possibly think of, is the fact that our conciousness is travelling in this direction of the Timestream so therefore, must be the way we must look at things, or else you will make yourself dizzy for a month trying to look at everything upsidedown, backwards, and inverted.

I can see this as a possible ego-centric issue that is part of human nature.

Initially, humans believed that the Earth was the center of the universe. Then they believed that their star system was the center of the universe. Then they believe that they are the only life-forms in their galaxy and universe. Then our conscious minds believe that this timeline is the only primary one, or "Center of all timelines" or so to speak.




Also, I would like to raise you a question that has been nagging the back of my mind for some time, Indra Prime.

What if, upon the death of our physical bodies, our consciousness either stays in this universe, or shifts into another universe?

For all I know, when I die, my human existence on Earth ends. I wake up as a baby somewhere on Planet X in a completely different civilization, thereby proving "Humans are the only intelligent life in the universe" ego-centrism wrong.

The same can be said about inter-universe. I wake up in this universe, then go through my life in this universe. Afterwards, upon my death, my consciousness may do two things regarding inter-universe travel. It may shift into a new universe, at the APM of my death. Or it could be reborn as myself once again, but in a different universe (I'm a guy in this universe, but in some other universe, I'm a woman) as a woman or with 12 fingers and 12 toes?



--------------------------------------------
I apologize to people here if my debates are uber-long.

Indra Prime, I really appreciate you reading my debate and counter-arguing my points. I know its a whole lot of reading and time consuming, but we all learn something new, don't we? :)



EDIT: Holy Crap! I just saved this single debate post in Microsoft word, and it ended up being 7 PAGES LONG! :eek: If this keeps up, I'll be able to write a book with your help, Indra Prime! Haha. :D

The universe exists in a state of four dimensions. Therefore we are living in a 4 dimensional universe. If we were living in a 3-D universe, time would not affect us because it is considered the fourth dimension.

Shortly after the Big Bang, the universe split into two, like an ice cube dropped into a hot cup of liquid. The upper dimensions (6-10) split from the lower dimensions (1-4). The STC then expanded to take up the space while the upper dimensions curled inward upon themselves. It was also at this time that Gravity, Electro-magnetism, Strong Nuclear Force, and Weak Nuclear Force split asunder into their own “forces”. (We are still trying to tie them together into a Unified Theory.)

There is no way to know what happened before the Big Bang but if the dimensions split then they must have existed before or were created during the Event.

Just because we cannot use Time Travel doesn’t mean we don’t exist as four dimensional beings. Who is to say our consciousness could not be the fourth dimensional extensions of our beings. Over thousands of years we have located every part of our bodies but we cannot find any physical existence of our minds. Our brains are located (for the most parts) in our heads but there is no physical proof of the existence of our minds.

We have not evolved as a race to the technological level to use this fourth dimension. We merely exist within it.


OOC:

Perhaps we should move the discussion to a different Thread. We could copy/paste out posts into the new thread and then delete them from here so we don’t hijack this Thread.

You do make some good arguments and I have enjoyed reading these posts.

Thanks Balrogga. I am curious, are you a physicist or theoretician like Indra Prime in RL?

I was debating with Indra whether this Temporal Accord would apply to his STC, his universe and "branches" of it. There could be other STC's with different Temporal Accords or STC's with no Temporal Accord's therefore I'm trying to argue that there could be universes or STC's where this Temporal Accord would have no jurdisction whatsoever.


At any rate... in response to your post, you do have some good points regarding 3-D beings, namely us, experiencing time in our current dimension. 1-D beings can visualize and understand a possible 2-D concept / existence, while INDIRECTLY experiencing 2-D within their universe.

I have made 6 simple illustrations to demostrate my points, and the arguements to follow. Here goes...

http://img232.echo.cx/img232/6411/dimensions0bz.jpg

In a true 1-D universe, as in example #1, there are only lines. People or entities in that universe would only exist as individual lines of any length. "Line-People" would experience 1-D existence naturally, and cannot naturally become 2-D beings.

However, there ARE presences of 2-D in the 1-D universe, just like time, a 4-D phenemnon is present in our 3-D universe.

Example 2 shows that the multiple lines can form random 2-D shapes merely by intersecting with each other. These shapes are shown in the various colors, and ergo, the illusion of 2-D appears in the 1-D universe. This is where 1-D seemingly presents the illusion of a 2-D existence when in actuality it does not present "true" 2-D as is in a 2-D universe.

Example 3 is somewhat similiar. In this example, 1-D entities create the illusion of 2-D existence, as the "Line-Entities" are arranged to resemble a triangle, a 2-D shape. However, this won't be "true" 2-D as a true 2-D would be a closed shape, instead of being comprised of 10, 100, 1000, or any number of 1-D lines.

People of 1-D universe would say that 2-D does exist in their universe, just like we say 4-D, or time, exists in our 3-D universe. The 1-D people would realize that there are 2-D forms, namely that "triangle" shape formed by lines, or the "indirect" 2-D shapes created from intersecting 1-D entities. This would be similiar to us labelling 4-D time concepts as "past", "present" and "future" in our 3-D existence.

It would be impossible for 1-D beings to fully utilize, employ, or experience full 2-D naturally. 1-D beings may do so artificially, namely through technology.


Now lets take a look at 2-D universe, contained in examples 4, 5, and 6.

In example 4, it demostrates a true 2-D universe of "width" and "length". A true 2-D universe would be nothing but polygons and flat surfaces. However, there are different ways for 2-D universes to experience 3-D illusions than occurs in 1-D / 2-D "transition" illusions.

In example 5, two 2-D shapes conjoin together and become a joint shape. The new 2-D objects "looks" 3-D but is actually just two distinct 2-D shapes. The black ellipse or black oblique rectangle gives the illusion of depth. It would appear that the circle and rectangle have "height" when in actuality, they don't. The 2-D beings would consider the "height" of the circle and rectangle just like we consider / view time in a 3-D universe.

It would be possible to traverse "height" illusion in a 2-D universe, just like being able to "traverse" time in our 3-D universe. The "height" can be changed by modifying a new 2-D shape to serve as a new "shade-illusion" creating a new illusion where the rectangle seems taller, or the circle seems smaller. This would be similiar to us using 3-D objects / material such as neutron stars, black holes, huge gravity-masses, etc. to affect or alter time / 4-D flow in our 3-D universe.

In example 6, 2-D shapes can join together to create the illusion of an actual 3-D shape, as opposed to just "height" (the base characterstic of what sets 3-D seperate from 2-D) in example 5.

You *think* you see and percieve a cube in my drawing, when in actuality it is merely 1 square and two trapezoids. The same can be said for the cylinder, as you *think* you see it as 3-D when it is actually comprised of two 2-D shapes, a thin ellipse and an curved polygon.

Again, the concept remains. 2-D beings and entities in a 2-D universe can percieve "height" and 3-D characterstics in a 2-D universe. However, 2-D beings and entities CANNOT fully experience, percieve, and understand 3-D existence / perceptions naturally. The only way to do this is to use artificial means to cross over from a 2-D universe into a 3-D universe.


We can percieve time, a 4-D property, in our 3-D universe, but cannot fully experience and percieve it in our universe without technology, machinery, or un-natural means.

For 4-D beings living in a "true" 4-D universe, they can experience an infinity of APM's, "presents", "pasts", and "futures" just like we experience an infinity of cubes, spheres, pyramids, tubes, and assorted 3-D shapes in our 3-D universe.



Now take another look at 1-D, 2-D, and 3-D universes. It is possible to simulate an illusion of 3-D in a 1-D universe, as the lines that make up the "cube" illusion in example 6 would be comprised of 1-D entities. Hence, the possibility of 5-D illusions of multi-verses in a 3-D universe.

I have been theorizing that 5-D is actually the existence of multi-verses, and the ability / means for a single object or entity to occupy one point multiple times with full awareness of it. Example... Earth occupies the same point in multiple universes, but is not aware of it as Earth is not sentient itself. However, humans and animals living on Earth could possibly occupy the exact same point in time across multiple universes, but as 3-D beings, they cannot experience 5-D existence NATURALLY.

A 5-D human being would be able to experience being present in multiple universes at the same time with full consciousness, and naturally travel through multiple universes just as naturally as we enter and exit a room or building in a 3-D universe.

Ditto for 4-D beings, travelling through time at will and naturally as they would be able to manipulate and experience an infinity of timestreams, time periods, APM's, etc. just like we manipulate an infinity of 3-D material in our universe.

I need to agree with Balrogga and ask if we can continue this in another thread so it doesnt clog up the TA. Thanks.

I need to agree with Balrogga and ask if we can continue this in another thread so it doesnt clog up the TA. Thanks.

Okay, Indra Prime. I apologize, as I tend to get somewhat passionate when debating things like this.

Should we start up a thread here in NS as an "IC" discussion, set up a panel of scientists from Indra Prime, Sharina, Balrogga, etc.? Maybe this could generate some positive publicity for your Temporal Accord?

Oh please do it on NS. I can't really go to off site places. You could call it
"Temporal Debates" Or something like that. I enjoy reading these debates, even if I do have a hard time following them on occasion.

Agreed. Leave it on NS somewhere, and we will each send a scientific delegation to a neutral planet or something. You can start the RP whenever you feel it warrants starting. Nations can request to send a delegation to the summit as well. The council will start off with the six main nations Indra Prime, Balrogga, Siesatia, Flaming Souls, JJR,& Sharina. Other nations will need to request to send a delegation to the conference.

Also, TG the link to the others.

OOC:

I have never done any FT type RP's before, so I wouldn't know where to begin or RP a realistic FT setting. So if someone FT could help me out, I'd appreciate it, or if any one of ya's could set this Conference up, that'd work as well.

I just don't want to end up making outrageous claims or "OMG! God-like Tech" or anything like that. I need some practice in FT RP'ing. :)

I made the Thread.

Here is the link:

Intergalactic Temporal Symposia (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=8720542#post8720542)

CASTLE ESSEMBRA
High Moor Plateau
Essembra; Capital
City of Kormanthor

http://usera.imagecave.com/Kormanthor/coruscant5_bg.jpg

To: The Balrogga Empire

From: King Matthew Of Kormanthor

We would like to request an invitation to participate in your Intergalactic Temporal Symposia.

"Ask for an invitation to this symposia. This could be our chance to rise into the big leagues."

"As you wish sir."

Anton sat, his feet up on the desk, reading the news. His eye had caught a small column, which in fact turned out to be news from that blasted universe Outer Heaven found itself continually ending up in, fighting whatever enemy or mining some godforsaken planet. But luckily, it was the Balroggans, their allies, who were hosting this.

"And the Temporal Directorate of Indra Prime..."

Anton shuddered for a moment.

Probably our most powerful enemy, those bastards stopped us from getting the Shivan Core device!

Anton watched the servant walk off, before he laughed.

"Well Indra, I guess we'll be clashing again won't we? I just hope you're prepared to see how far we've come since you last fought us..."

Kormanthor and Outer Heaven MK II, you need to post your request for invitation over in the Temporal Symposium thread here...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=413827

Official Transmission

The Corporation agrees to and signs the Temporal Accord.

Signed:
Brigadier General Jack O'Neill (retired)
Chairman, Chief Executive Officer, and President
The Northrop-Grumman Corporation

We acknowledge and greatly appreciate your added signature to the Temporal Accord.

In a startling change of decision, a document is sent to Indra Prime...

In Mekantan Script and English...

In agreement with my Goddess's wishes, and that of the Neo-Mekantan Hegemony, I, Seryx math Teralys, Supreme Overlord of the Mekantan Storm and Deva of Minagoroshi, hereby approve our signature of the Temporal Accord.

Below, in what looks like dried blood...

By the will of the Zircon Hive and Neo-Mekanta as a whole, this signature is seen and agreed to by the Zircon! As my gift to the Temporal Accord, I, Hive Queen Shieki of the Zircon, grant the full support of the Zircon Time Crushers and our Chronobreakers!

More, in Feran and English...

As my honor and the will of my peers dictates, Jerlys Grrarill of the Feran Claw supports Neo-Mekanta's signature of the Temporal Accord.

And a simple message in English...

The Star Council of The Tsthathi, by majority vote, grant our support to this signature.

All four shards of Neo-Mekanta had spoken. Four clear voices rose in approval.


Neo-Mekanta offers its signature to the Temporal Accord. Our Level ten technology stolen from Jangle Jangle Ridge will be returned to Indra Prime. Our Chronobreaker technology will be used in the protection of the STC. Our might lies behind you, and against those who would threaten the existance of that which binds you.

"Lady President," a minor functionary dressed in white and black robes said, approaching Romanadvoratrelundar's desk, "It appears we are now in blatant violation of some sort of interplanetary accord. He dropped a massive wad of papers - a quaint affectation of the President's - onto her desk. She picked the dogeared sheaf up and began reading, "Temporal research commission..." "Indra prime..." "Banned..." "Consultation..."

"Primary timeline. Oh dear oh dear," Romana said, "What kind of insanity is this?"

"It appears these Indrans are under the impression that Time Travel is something new, if you'll excuse the grammar."

Romana grinned, then leaned back a little in her chair, oversized crimson collar contorting as she leaned her head back in the starched robes of office. "This has got to be some kind of joke. Very funny."

"It's not a joke."

"Well then, the signatories are a joke," she said, wiping a tear from her eye, "and a bad one!"

-Rapid-pulse message to Indra Prime, cc all Temporal Accord nations

"Threat IDed. Readying Time Crushers for Temporal Smackdown. Respond with support if desired."

While we have two specific temporal technologies, they in no way threaten the TSC and thus we have no reason to bother with signing this accord.

New Sovietia would like to sign this, having dealt with multiverse traveling in our earlier days

We acknowledge and thank you for your signature with this accord.

OOC: Indra, I suppose I'm the one that got the ball rolling... That first post of mine led to 16 pages of discussion, argueing, and people rushing to become signatories. If you never intended this, I apologize...

Just because you were the first poster after mine, doesnt mean you get the credit for this Accord. The credit goes to how well written it was and how well its been RPed.

Yeah, I would have to say that all the credit goes to Indra for this one, seeing as he posted it. No one else can claim credit for it. If you want to be that way about it though, I can say that it is because of me that New Sovietia signed it, as I informed him of it. But he also signed of his own free will, as did I. All that you did was basically give it a bump.

Gaaaaaaaah. That's not what I mean. I'm not trying to take credit for the Accord, but it wasn't in noteriety until it finally got bumped up and people saw it.

Oh stop being a glory hog

*strikes a pose* WORSHIP ME!!!

I love glory... I absorb it like... like... like LBJ on a roadside holding up a dead beaver that his campaign bus ran over during a tour through North Dakota where he cheated in the election!

Did I mention LBJ was my 19th cousin? I'm a staunch republican, and I hate whomever it was that is responsible for that family tie...

and back on topic...

As soon as we get our fiftieth member nation to sign the Accord, we will hold on hell of a party. Only Four more to go.

*strikes a pose* WORSHIP ME!!!

I love glory... I absorb it like... like... like LBJ on a roadside holding up a dead beaver that his campaign bus ran over during a tour through North Dakota where he cheated in the election!

Did I mention LBJ was my 19th cousin? I'm a staunch republican, and I hate whomever it was that is responsible for that family tie...

Heh, reminds me of Major Armstrong from Full Metal Alchemist...

Update, The Quantum Singularity of Flaming Souls is now The Star Imperium of Flaming Souls.

As soon as we get our fiftieth member nation to sign the Accord, we will hold on hell of a party. Only Four more to go.
Ooohh a party...
Ageaol would like to sign up. We've always believed in not messing around with the STC.

Yes, three more...lets get some signatory nations people!

bump for more signatories. Only a few more to go before the party can commence!

I, President Franklin Trueman of the United Nations Space Command, Sign this threaty, so that in the eventuality that we develop such weapons, the UNSC will not be penalized for doing so. I also pledge my support for the accord.

OOC: I don't think I will ever dive into temporal technology, since I plan to keep my Halo tech, but it never hurts to be on the safe side.

Californian Refugees signs, in the interest of finding out what really has happened and of keeping it that way.

Gadget Corporation will sign this document, in the interest of keeping the Time/Space Continuum stable.

ooc:Just in case you guys may be interested, I'm going to gradually reveal the governmental change in my country is the result of temporal incursions. Just in case. Anywho, the FT aspect of my nation will sign, as temporal technology has kept them in power the last 1,000,000 years ;) ))

The CEO Johann MMCXVI of the glorious Weishauptian Dynasty of the former Ankhmeti Imperium will sign this agreement to help create a greater air of transparency around temporal weapons, as Ankhmet does have a large stockpile of temporal ships and weapons.

Time for that party.

((*Is the happy 50th signer* :D ))