NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC: Actually, I meant F-14's I got mixed up.
ahhh. gotcha. I use the same mix, too. For no better reason than the f-14s look cool. :)

By West Pacific's logic, it would be perfectly fine for me to firebomb/spread anti-vegetation fungi all over Shildonian agricultural areas, because they are providing food to supply the army, therefore helping the war effort. Never mind all the farmers that may die or the people who will starve from lack of food. Am I correct?

Defenceless civilians are defenceless civilians no matter their occupation or how they supposedly help the war effort!

Yes actually that would be fine, have you ever heard of World War I? The Allies defeated Germany by placing an embargo on the country, Germany had no fertilizer and millions died from starvation.

It does not matter if they are defenseless or not, they are still helping in the war and so are targets.

You do raise some good questions about my Navy, they do lack the Early warning detection systems I would prefer them to have. I have had a hard time finding someone who will sell me either A. A large group of Hawkeye's or B. The technology to prduce my own, this has been a problem which has plaqued us since the creation of my nation. We are however negotiating to buy the production rights of the E-3 Hawkeye. We were able to purchase two early in January but they were destroyed in a fire in the hangar where they were being worked on.
opps. Those little accidents suck, huh? I'm suprised you are having a difficult time tracking planes down on the open market. T-G me if you need a pointer on where to get some.

As for the use of F-22's instead of F-18's for the Navy and F-15's and F-16's for the Air Force, that was because we wanted to standardise our armed forces, that way a Navy Pilot could land on an Air Force base, be re-feuled and armed, and take off again, without switching planes or the risk of the technicians not knowing how to arm the plane and having an accident and causing the loss of life. And we feel that the F-22 is a far superior plane to anything else we had in our arsenal.
Actually, I was wondering why you wouldn't use the F-35C (the carrier based version) instead of converting F-22s to land on carriers. All carrier based planes can be refueled on-ground by the airforce. The problem arises when you rely on landing for refueling. You are simply wasting a ton of fuel taking off again. It is so much more efficient to refuel in air.

OOC: Here is a link some people may want to view more on international incidents, I'm going to start making sure it's noticed because it's an index of all the good RP advice about everything you could imagine, all made by some of the best RPer's in NS, so if you feel lost about somethings here is all the information you will need...

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2317520#2317520

OOC: A note here - the USN is considering using the F-18/E/F as a subsitute for the E-3.

The F-22 is a much more powerful air superiority machine than the F-35. THe F-35 is optimised for subsonic flight and strike with larger bomb bays, while the F-22 can supercruise and has a smaller RCS than the F-35.

By West Pacific's logic, it would be perfectly fine for me to firebomb/spread anti-vegetation fungi all over Shildonian agricultural areas, because they are providing food to supply the army, therefore helping the war effort. Never mind all the farmers that may die or the people who will starve from lack of food. Am I correct?

Defenceless civilians are defenceless civilians no matter their occupation or how they supposedly help the war effort!

Yes actually that would be fine, have you ever heard of World War I? The Allies defeated Germany by placing an embargo on the country, Germany had no fertilizer and millions died from starvation.

It does not matter if they are defenseless or not, they are still helping in the war and so are targets.

Warfare has changed significantly since WW1. What was acceptable then, is not now. Raining cruise missiles upon a dock area with many civilians like Shildonia did is not acceptable. Especially considering that it was a preemptive attack.

I think we shall discuss the moral values of the Shildonian Axis on the Everlasting. I am affraid that several civilians have died in Shildonia during the raid of the People's Liberation Army Airforce. At last in this case we have lost the moral high ground. It seems that most of Shildonias communication instalations have been devastated, since they are not responding.

OOC: Just got on to see Communist Louisiana's remarks.

I'd thank him to keep his language more civil when he is speaking. Which means no "what the hell" or anything like that.

I fit in because I am an ally of The Zoogie People, Tiborita, and West Pacific, and hence also of Shildonia.

On another note:

Wasn't the blockade of Iraq, North Korea, Libya, et al the same sort of thing as Germany in WW2? It was more directed and focused on the military hardware, but it made life miserable for the citizens since most civilian hardware has military uses..

OOC: Just got on to see Communist Louisiana's remarks.

I'd thank him to keep his language more civil when he is speaking. Which means no "what the hell" or anything like that.

I fit in because I am an ally of The Zoogie People, Tiborita, and West Pacific, and hence also of Shildonia.

On another note:

Wasn't the blockade of Iraq, North Korea, Libya, et al the same sort of thing as Germany in WW2? It was more directed and focused on the military hardware, but it made life miserable for the citizens since most civilian hardware has military uses..

OOC: Cool that you havn't left us :wink:

Lets face it people, civilians always die in war, it is inevitable. Shildonia was trying cripple Hallad's ability to repair ships and build new ones. Attacking the industrial abilties of a nation is a major part of war. Industrial centers are run by civilians, so, in order to take out the industrial might of a natioin some civilians will have to die all that one can do is try to minimize the civilian casualties. However, the bombing of civilian buildings could cause a loss in moral.

And no that was not a pre-emptive strike as Hallad's allies claim, was was already declared, so Shildonia attacked. Alls fair in love and war.

The True Directorate didn't declare war until after we were attacked.

OOC- please read the topic before you post these things!

The True Directorate didn't declare war until after we were attacked.

OOC- please read the topic before you post these things!

Look at the name of this damn thread, it says "War with Shildonia", guess what that means. You declared war to Shildonia! Did you think you could wait and attack him and claim that you had already declared war? Not likely, lets face it, you declared war, "negotiations" failed and so Shildonia attacked. Your demands were unjust and rather than let it drop you kept making demands of Shildonia until he snapped, hope you are happy with yourself.

Shildonia started the war there is no doubt for that. First they supported the nazis, then they told Hallad that they don't want to negotiate. Than they attacked. In retaliation we had to bomb them. The PRC would now like to request all nations which favour peace to come to the Everlasting for negotiations. There we should decide the future of this crisis.

TheEverlasting continues to circle in the same area it has been, broadcasting neutrality signals in various codes.

"Any word of any new delegates comming," asked a rather bored Shipman.
"No sir," answered a communications officer.

"Blast these people! Do not they recognize what is best for them? Hopefully they will come to their senses and come aboard. Keep your ears ready in case they do come to thier senses."

"Aye, aye, sir

"One more thing.

"What's that, sir?"

"Send word to the Admiral of the situation, and request that the 1st Grand Fleet arive for security reasons. The waters are filled with ships, so we must be safe from angry nations."

"I will do so sir"

Don't think I ever RPed my fleets arriving.

"Admiral, we are just outside Halladi territorial waters." The Admiral nodded as the man left the bridge. Most of the massive fleet was a little behind his ship, which was faster and doing skirmish work. He sent out a message to the Everlasting and the Halladi Government.

Message to the Everlasting

[code:1:a903ab0867]
Greetings from Hattia, this is Admiral Brusilov, commander of the 7th, 8th, and 9th fleets. I am willing to attend the negotiations. Please notify me when they are to take place.
[/code:1:a903ab0867]

Message to the Halladi True Directorate

[code:1:a903ab0867]
We request permission to have our fleets enter your territorial waters and to allow Admiral Brusilov to discuss strategies with your military leaders.
[/code:1:a903ab0867]

[code:1:0c4cd384e7]Admiral Brusilov of Hattia, negotiations will begin whenever delegates from the two major players in this war-Hallad and Shildonia-arive on the [i]Everlasting[/i]. We aplaud your efforts to achieve peace and happily welcome you aboard. You may take with you 4 bodygaurds.[/code:1:0c4cd384e7]

Since the LoD has stated that they have no intentions of helping their ally Shildonia in this unfortunate incident, I will be withdrawing all NNA forces from their posts in the Zoogie People and in the waters surrounding that country. If the LoD will not help their ally I see no need to help either. Unless their is a drastic change in the position of the LoD I will not get re-involved in this incident.

We are sending an unarmed civilian delegation to the Everlasting on a small passenger ship.

From the West Pacific Broadcasting Network

The following telegram was attained by this company.

Message from the Community of Bariloche:

This is about the Hallad-Shildonia situation. The Shildonian government is taken to be the agressor in this actions by the Legion of Defense, that's why the Zoogie People, Exonerate or Bariloche itself haven't helped. Shildonia stated in the LoD that it was going to take preventive actions, and it did (OOC: he specifically said so in the LoD forums), don't defend Shildonia saying the agressor was Hallad unless Shildonia asks you to, it will only worsen the situation otherwise. We expect your confidentiality in this communication, confirm with Shildonia if you don't believe this.

With nothing else,
Respectfully,

Pablo Bernal
President
Community of Bariloche

It is not yet known what the implications of this message are yet, we believe that the LoD is to scared to defend their ally. This is also believed to be teh cause of the removal of all NNA forces involved in this conflict.

OOC:
Good going mate, that's going to help Shildonia a lot. :roll:

[code:1:66853a2469]To Hattia:
Permission granted, your forces may continue on thier present course.[/code:1:66853a2469]

***

A Halladi helicopter approched The Everlasting.

"This is the Halladi helicopter Marx 101 requesting permission to land, we have to Halladi representitives on board wishing to negotiate on behalf of the True Directorate."

To say the truth the PRC is positively surprised by this developments. We are now only waiting for Shildonia to attend the summit. The moment the Shildonian representatives arrive on the Everlasting the PLAN will withdraw from the Shildonian coast.

I'm just going to ignore this entire thing for the following reasons:
1) Hallad's use of godmoding puppets.
2) Hallad's refusal to post damages with regards to the attacks on his convoys (which incidently, should have been destroyed during the attacks on his ports)
3) Hallad's refusal to actually RP the consequences of the attack on his ports beyond a cursory "lots of people died and a skyscraper fell down". The point of the attack was to prevent reinforcements from landing. Noone seemed to notice this while landing their millions of troops.
Hallad did a similar thing in the previous thread, by not bothering to realise that bombing his bridges would hinder movement of his troops.
4) Crosshill's teleporting fleets, which were able to magically travel through the defencive screen outlined earlier.
5) Crosshill's teleporting bombers, which were similarly able to teleport through the afforementioned defensive screen. Stealth aircraft can be detected by Pulse Doppler radar, so don't act like they are invisible because they aren't. Just ask that guy who was shot down in Serbia.
6) Communist Louisiana's insistence on meddling, despite being ignored by myself (and possibly others) for his repeated use of foul and abusive language.

Finally, the people killed at the docks were government employees, not civillians.
Also, the LoD hasn't proven that I was the aggressor. To be an aggressor there must be a majority vote, which there hasn't been. For there to have been a vote there has to have been a request for assistance, which there wasn't. Trust me, I wrote that bit of the charter :wink:

I'm just going to ignore this entire thing for the following reasons:
1) Hallad's use of godmoding puppets.
2) Hallad's refusal to post damages with regards to the attacks on his convoys (which incidently, should have been destroyed during the attacks on his ports)
3) Hallad's refusal to actually RP the consequences of the attack on his ports beyond a cursory "lots of people died and a skyscraper fell down". The point of the attack was to prevent reinforcements from landing. Noone seemed to notice this while landing their millions of troops.
Hallad did a similar thing in the previous thread, by not bothering to realise that bombing his bridges would hinder movement of his troops.
4) Crosshill's teleporting fleets, which were able to magically travel through the defencive screen outlined earlier.
5) Crosshill's teleporting bombers, which were similarly able to teleport through the afforementioned defensive screen. Stealth aircraft can be detected by Pulse Doppler radar, so don't act like they are invisible because they aren't. Just ask that guy who was shot down in Serbia.
6) Communist Louisiana's insistence on meddling, despite being ignored by myself (and possibly others) for his repeated use of foul and abusive language.

Finally, the people killed at the docks were government employees, not civillians.
Also, the LoD hasn't proven that I was the aggressor. To be an aggressor there must be a majority vote, which there hasn't been. For there to have been a vote there has to have been a request for assistance, which there wasn't. Trust me, I wrote that bit of the charter :wink:

What puppets? And government employees are civilians, as they are not necessarily employed by the military.

[quote="Shildonia"]I'm just going to ignore this entire thing for the following reasons:
1) Hallad's use of godmoding puppets.
2) Hallad's refusal to post damages with regards to the attacks on his convoys (which incidently, should have been destroyed during the attacks on his ports)
3) Hallad's refusal to actually RP the consequences of the attack on his ports beyond a cursory "lots of people died and a skyscraper fell down". The point of the attack was to prevent reinforcements from landing. Noone seemed to notice this while landing their millions of troops.
Hallad did a similar thing in the previous thread, by not bothering to realise that bombing his bridges would hinder movement of his troops.
4) Crosshill's teleporting fleets, which were able to magically travel through the defencive screen outlined earlier.
5) Crosshill's teleporting bombers, which were similarly able to teleport through the afforementioned defensive screen. Stealth aircraft can be detected by Pulse Doppler radar, so don't act like they are invisible because they aren't. Just ask that guy who was shot down in Serbia.
6) Communist Louisiana's insistence on meddling, despite being ignored by myself (and possibly others) for his repeated use of foul and abusive language.

Finally, the people killed at the docks were government employees, not civillians.
Also, the LoD hasn't proven that I was the aggressor. To be an aggressor there must be a majority vote, which there hasn't been. For there to have been a vote there has to have been a request for assistance, which there wasn't. Trust me, I wrote that bit of the charter :wink: [quote]

OOC:

1) What puppets?
2) Mayve my convoys would have been destroyed in ports, but they didn't leave from my ports. I posted that they left from Saint Sabbat's ports.
3) I said that severl destroyers were destroyed. The rest of my fleet is out at sea. BTW, in the other thread you never RPed bombing bridges or anything like that, unless you just want me to assume your doing things, it never heppened.

Well, I'll just consider that your surrender. Since you wont be giving up your country another one will be created to substitute.

1. Callad. The name is practically identical and it's funny how it only attacked me and not you.
Having said that, it might be Attican Empire. He has a tendency to get involved in matters that do not concern him, and has often created puppets to try and get round the fact I've ignored him for multiple reasons, most of which consist of him refusing to believe it possible to fly supersonicly, that the F-35 does not exist, and that it is impossible to fly at altitudes below 40,000 feet (he believes you will run out of fuel instantaneously should such a feat be attempted).
If it is Attican Empire, I have the following links for you:
Low Level Flying (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/306927.stm)
Flying at Mach 1 (http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=184)
2. So you moved 700 tanks, and all the other equipment to another country, before loading them onto ships? That's a bit overly complex, since it involves stretching your logistics unneccesarily. But then, your side never did bother with logistics. Basically you're just trying to godmod your way out of losing your army, just like you did before, with your tanks that seemingly have cloaking devices and so cannot be seen.
Either way, I launched another attack on your convoys, which you haven't posted damages on.
3. Yes I did (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2790637#2790637). You then responded by moving another infantry division into position. Every time I questioned how you were doing this, your response was essentially "They are the standing army. The laws of physics do not apply to them, and they can simply appear at will at any point on Earth within a matter of minutes. They do not need time to travel, for they are the standing army."

Basically you're a godmoder who can't stand to lose.

1) Yes it is funny, but it's not my puppet. Puppets of mine:
The Commonwealth of Halladi Northlands
The Commonwealth of Halladi Island States

2) I havent posted damages because your fighters are currently tied up by a lot of MiG's! I posted them attacking your "F-52's" but you never responded.

3) Idiot! You claimed they needed to be mobilized, I was merely pointing out to you that the infantry were part of my standing army, ergo were already MOBILIZED.

"Basically you're a godmoder who can't stand to lose."
That more acuratly describes you...

So my bombers should just sit back and wait to be shot at? That's not the way it works. The fighters are escorting the bombers. The idea is for the fighters to hold off enemy fighters long enough for the bombers to complete their mission.
Also, I was reading through an old aviation magazine of mine. In it there is an article about the Phoenix. Apparantly in trials it shot down 4 out of 6 drones that were flying at mach 1+, and manouvering. One of the drones failed, which led to one of the misses, the other miss was just a normal miss. That's an accuracy of at least 66%, possibly even 83% (depending on whether you count the failed drone as a miss). Statistically every single one of your fighters should have been shot down. Did that happen? No, once again you ignore the statistics and so avoid taking appropriate damage.
Even a standing army takes time to travel to the battlefield. Your troops were able to do so in 90 minutes, which seems a bit dubious. Most forces readiness is measured in hours, not minutes. That's the time it takes to get ready to move. You've got to add travel time on top of that. You need to brief your troops about where they are going, what they will do when they get there, what kind of opposition they will be up against etc. You didn't do any of that, your troops simply arrived instantaneously and knew exactly what they were doing.

Well I guess the war is over, since both sides say the other is godmoding their is no point to fighting this war. It was fun though, it helped my day go by quicker. We should do this again and soon.

*FLAME FLAME FLAME* "YOU'RE A GODMODDER" *FLAME FLAME FLAME*

ARGH!!!!!!!!

I've had enough of this and I suggest that we all go away and forget this thread ever happened.

BTW Shildonia, read my post about the Phoenix missile earlier in this topic. If you think that the Phoenix was capable of shooting down all of Hallads fighters you are sorely mistaken and I suggest that you do more research on actual field performance of the missile. A good starting point would be my post earlier.

Anyway, ciao.

Well I guess the war is over, since both sides say the other is godmoding their is no point to fighting this war. It was fun though, it helped my day go by quicker. We should do this again and soon.

Cheers then, see y'all later.

That missile probably lost lock rather than missing. The Phoenix isn't actively guided until the last 12 miles, and so it more likely that the F-14 had something better to do than keep it's radar pointed at a helicopter.
This scenario however, is completely different because there is an AWACS lighting up the targets and guiding the missiles in. You've also got to remember that there were two missiles fired at each fighter, making it doubly difficult to evade.
To be perfectly honest, Wikipedia can hardly be considered a decent source on any subject, for the simple fact it is written by ordinary people who may not have any real knowledge of what they are writing about. I'd much rather get my information from a reputable source that was written by proffesionals, such as the magazine I mentioned. Such sources are often referred to as being "decent", rather than "written by peasants who may or may not know what they are talking about"

Hallad, I am sorry to inform you that I must withdraw my troops to help defend Aust and attack Credonia.

GameFAQ, what is it with attacking Credonia recently?

I'm a double post and I'm OK sleep all the night and work all the day...

Well I guess the war is over, since both sides say the other is godmoding their is no point to fighting this war. It was fun though, it helped my day go by quicker. We should do this again and soon.

Same here! I think I have to add some of the players here to my dossier! Bye everyone and Peace! Ohh and sorry for that god modding thing Shildoinia!

That missile probably lost lock rather than missing. The Phoenix isn't actively guided until the last 12 miles, and so it more likely that the F-14 had something better to do than keep it's radar pointed at a helicopter.
This scenario however, is completely different because there is an AWACS lighting up the targets and guiding the missiles in. You've also got to remember that there were two missiles fired at each fighter, making it doubly difficult to evade.
To be perfectly honest, Wikipedia can hardly be considered a decent source on any subject, for the simple fact it is written by ordinary people who may not have any real knowledge of what they are writing about. I'd much rather get my information from a reputable source that was written by proffesionals, such as the magazine I mentioned. Such sources are often referred to as being "decent", rather than "written by peasants who may or may not know what they are talking about"

Well, I will send Janes a friendly email asking for their opinion, as well as someone I know in the RAAF (Royal Australian Air Force) who may or may not have knowledge of it. By the way, what was the name of that magazine? I have quite a few sitting around here...

But truth be told, we cannot know the actual combat performance of it until it is used on a large scale. I simply think it won't be very effective against hard maneuvering fighter aircraft for reasons i stated above.

World Aircraft Information Files, sheet 295. It's from the issue with a free video about aircraft carriers in the First Persian Gulf War.

World Aircraft Information Files, sheet 295. It's from the issue with a free video about aircraft carriers in the First Persian Gulf War.

Ah, unfortunately, I don't have that. Oh well.