NationStates Jolt Archive

The True Directorate has voted. If negotiations fail we will resort to war.

Message:
To: The Shildonian Government
From: The True Directorate of Hallad
Message Reads:
Your country was involved in the Halladi civil war. In which you supported Nazi rebels who killed over ten thousand civilians. As the war ended explosives left by you caused over three hundred civilian cassualties. They destroyed a city block. The people of Hallad demand that you pay for part of the rebuilding process. If you do not comply the True Directorate and it's allies will retaliate with war, as has been decided by our people. The True Directorate would wish nothing more than peace, but the people want war, and we will obide by thier wishes.

-The True Directorate

Hallad- Are you a communist?

< RP >
Secretary Sonja "Sir, we have bad news, the True Directorate of Hallad has,well, declared almost war, if the Shildonian Government doesn't comply,you get the picture?"
President Ivan "Why yes I do, set all troops for LOOCON#3, prepare them all, I hope we don't have to use them, we probably won't. Tell General Smith to keep me updated. I am hoping on staying out og this one."
Secretary Sonja "Yes, sir."

OOC: We're Socialists.

President William Ciel paced the floor of his study, raining questions on his military advisers.

"Shildonia, shildonia, shildonia, where have I heard that name before?"

"I believe it is a member of SLOA, sir."

"An ally...we cannot allow this traversety to happen."

"Actually, I believe that's Shinoxia," another adviser cut in.

"Oh?" he stopped and raised an eyebrow. "So we are bound to alliance. Either way, I refuse to believe these statements by Hallad and will support Shildonia."

"What are you going to do, sir?"

"What am I going to do? I believe that's clear - I am going to ask the bodies of Parliament to declare war on this rogue nation of Hallad."

OCC:Hmm thats close enough...

Hallad is under the military protection of Hattia, we will protect them in any way possible and at all costs. A declaration of war on them is one on us.

Shilodonia is a member of the Legion of Defense. We WILL seek a declaration of war by the Legion of Defense should no proof of the supporting of Nazi rebels be shown. We DEMAND proof that Shildonia did indeed purposely massacre civilians and support Nazi rebels.

Of course, we are more than willing to seek diplomacy. We are even willing to offer diplomacy in our country. However, military alert has once again been increased and soldiers are deploying should the unthinkable happen.

The LoD will not stand for aggression against its nations. The Zoogie People is not an enemy of socialism and not a condoner of Naziism. We are, however, the enemy of pointless aggression. Let that much be known.

OOC: I should have made this clearer - we seek not to declare war or even to vote on it until Shildonia has received a formal delcaration of war by Hallad, in which case we will defend Shildonia. Hattia, Hallad may be under your military protection, but do you also have an obligation to help him in his military pursuits? Please reconsider the meaningfullness of this pursuit.

OOC: I should have made this clearer - we seek not to declare war or even to vote on it until Shildonia has received a formal delcaration of war by Hallad, in which case we will defend Shildonia. Hattia, Hallad may be under your military protection, but do you also have an obligation to help him in his military pursuits? Please reconsider the meaningfullness of this pursuit.

OOC: Actually he does. It's under the Mutual Protection Pact of The International.

OOC: So even if say, you declared war on Russian Forces for no apparent reason (which you wouldn't, you're a socialist :P), Hattia would have to help you?

IC:

The Zoogie People would like to make clear its position, and so has made a public statement in this matter, along with the deploying of a carrier group to areas near Shildonian waters.

We will not invade Hallad, at least, not for any reasons we have yet forseen.

We will seek diplomacy first, and hold diplomatic meetings in our nation.

We will defend Shildonia if Hallad decides to invade him.

We do have anti-ICBM satellites acquired from another nation in the past and will shoot down (or try to) any ICBM launched by any nation involved on any other nation involved.

We will and have informed the Isles, the Legion, and the Alliance. (Region, LoD, and NNA) to seek diplomacy and if necessary aid in defense of Shildonia.

We will stand ready to defend Shildonia throughout the course of this.

I don't have to help him invade someone, I am obligated to help defend him in any way if need be. I will only support an invasion for a good reason, and I view this as one.


Well, you said you were going to declare war. Anyway, they supported the rebels in his civil war, I'd say that shows hostile intent towards Hallad and is grounds for war.

The New Halladi Order, a fascist millitant group has taken the middle province of Erkshire. Reports are streaming in that jews and homosexuals are being executed in vast numbers.

The NHO is hereby recognised as the true government of Hallad.

This is reason enough for war. They supported a group that has commited Genocide.

I am working on getting the quote from the explosion, damn server.

Sorry, when I said I was going to declare war it was before I caught that he was simply making demands...the thread said "War on Shildonia." Anyways, I'll go fish up the thread...diplomacy first, though. I won't invade Hallad, but defend Shildonia.

As an ally of The Zoogie People I will not sit by and watch him be belittled by other nations, any attacks of threats against The Zoogie People will be considered an attack on West Pacific and the NNA.

As Military Advisor of the NNA I will be sending the following to defend The Zoogie People and Shildonia:

150,000 troops
25,000 Bradley Fighting Vehicles
15,000 M1A1 Abrams MBTs
650 F-22 Raptors
3 Ticonderoga Class Ships
2 Oliver Hazard Perry Class
1 Los Angeles Class Submarine

Any further hostilities by Hallad and his "allies" will be considered an act of war against West Pacific and the NNA. I strongly urge the two sides to engage in negotiations, a war here would benefit nobody and hurt all of us. If need be we can send a government yacht on which the negotiations could be held.

It is the official position of the People's Republic not to intentionally target civillians. To this end every target selected for attack is scrutinised by a team of lawyers to ensure that the target is legal under international law. These lawyers have the power to veto a target, and indeed have used this power several times in the past.
However, it is possible that misguided weapons may have struck civillian positions, although it is extremely unlikely that casualties of that level would be caused. As for the explosives left after the withdrawal, these were designed primarily to hinder reoccupation of the airfield. It was reasonably forseeable that this reoccupation would be carried out by military personnel, rather than by civillians.
Finally, when we chose to support the NHO, we did so because they were a group fighting for their freedom from the yoke of socialist oppression. It is regrettable that some NHO members may have been involved in revenge attacks against members of the former regime, but understandable.
Due to the possibility of war, we hereby forbid Halladian flagged vessels from entering Shildonian territorial waters. Should any such vessel attempt to do so it may be fired on without warning. Should any Halladian military vessel come within 450 nautical miles of the Shildonian coast, it may be fired on if it demonstrates hostile intent. To ensure no vessels seek to violate these terms, Nimrod maritime reconnaisance aircraft will begin increased patrols, and Vulcan heavy bombers have been placed on 10 minute readiness to launch strikes against vessels which violate these terms.

----

(Secret IC bit, some can be picked up by recon satallites etc, others probably won't)
Strategic bombers and their tankers are being relocated to dispersal airfields.
Constant AWACS coverage is being provided by E-3 Sentrys patrolling 300 miles from the Shildonian coast, each escorted by a pair of F-52s and eight Demeter class air superiority fighters. Additional fighters are on ground alert to provide reinforcements in the event of an attack.
Four CloudRaker class shuttles (Sans Pareil, Bradyll, Globe and Derwent) have been placed on full alert to conduct anti-satallite operations within two hours notice.
Senior officials are being relocated to secure locations.
Recon satallites have had their orbits adjusted to maintain constant surveillance of Hallad and Hattia
Finally, the Shildonian Navy is beginning to surge all available vessels out to sea to defend our brave nation. Four Poseiden-class SSGNs are slowly moving into range of Hallad to provide a possible nuclear response should circumstances deem it necesary.

----

(Two additional points here:
1. Hallad - next time send a telegram so I know where the thread is, rather than stumbling accross it in the course of my daily rummaging.
2. Don't bother sending military assistance to me unless you're actually allied with me. Being allied to one of my allies isn't good enough. If you want to show support do it putting an embargo on Hallad, or something similar.
The reason for this is that ICly your military has no idea how my military works, and so it would be nearly impossible to work together. People actually allied to me on the other hand will have probably trained with my people, and so will be able to work together better.
Also, this would just turn into Europe circa 1914)

We have full diplomatic support for our Halladi comrades. We call upon Shildonia to cease aiding terrorist factions such as the NHO. The NHO uprising was strictly a Halladi internal affair, and you had no right to intervene.

OOC: Actually he does. It's under the Mutual Protection Pact of The International.

Eww... "The International", I'm learning to distrust alot of nations from that alliance due to some recent warmongering.

That siad, I still don't trust Shinoxia and with some of the accusations going around I think that will stay the same.

However, Iuthia isn't even going to bother with this one, we'll get involved only if Hattia is attacked, not Hattia's troops abroad but his nation... so we'll probably just remain observers...

http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/iuthia.jpg

Lord General deGritz, leader of the Iuthian people.
Urbanites (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=display_region/region=Urbanites)

Apply for an Embassy in Iuthia (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=127023&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)
OOC Information on Iuthia (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=109898&highlight=)

IC: I have sent in those troops to defend our alliance member The Zoogie People. Zoogie has requested however that our alliance step in and help out your (Shildonia) nation in this time of crisis for both of your nations.

OOC: Technically a nations control only extends 13 miles out to sea, 450 miles would be in international waters and to attack a ship in international waters would be an act of war. Perhaps you should bring your attack line in a little ways, like maybe 437 miles closer in.

We will remain observers, and hope a peaceful solution can be made. If Hallad is attacked however, we will help.

OOC: Technically a nations control only extends 13 miles out to sea, 450 miles would be in international waters and to attack a ship in international waters would be an act of war. Perhaps you should bring your attack line in a little ways, like maybe 437 miles closer in.

He said they would only be fired upon at that range if they displayed hostile intent. This is perfectly legal.


The Imperial Naval Republic of Unum Veritas, as Vice-President and Naval Commander of the Legion of Defence desires, as usual, a peaceful resolution to this disagreement; however, should any aggressive action be taken by Hallad or that nation's allies then economic sanctions will be imposed and an even stronger response could be taken. The Veritasean government firmly believes that this conflict can be solved through peaceful means and urges all nations to follow such avenues. Nonetheless, all Veritasean armed forces, specifically the navy, will go to an increased alert status pending the resolution of this conflict. Should Shildonia request it, naval forces can be made available for their country's defence; however no Veritasean vessel will assist in preemptive or aggressive strikes as of now. This situation shall continue to be monitored closely.

http://sc.groups.msn.com/tn/32/92/captainjacksparrow/4/34.jpg
High Chancellor Sparrow
The Imperial Naval Republic of Unum Veritas
Member: NAIA (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1667209#1667209)
Member: Band of Brothers (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2432224#2432224)
Vice President and Naval Commander: Legion of Defence (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2503299#2503299)
Owner: Unum Veritas Naval Store (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=655745#655745)

OOC: Technically a nations control only extends 13 miles out to sea, 450 miles would be in international waters and to attack a ship in international waters would be an act of war. Perhaps you should bring your attack line in a little ways, like maybe 437 miles closer in.

Yes. Whereas threatening war unless we bow to their demands is perfectly legal :roll:

Iuthia - Rest assured, we intend not to attack Hattia's homeland; or even Hallad's for that matter.

Even as tensions increase, we are looking to establish peace. We welcome leaders and advisers to a diplomatic summit in the island city Methel Minor, where the beds are very soft and very, very big. Your comfort is guarenteed during your stay, and not only can you discuss and scream at each other, but you can also enjoy the island's environment and the lovely beaches...wait, wait, this is sounding too much like a hotel advert.

Anyways, security is airtight. You will be guarded by the best-trained guards and there is an active military presence. Several small air bases also are spread along the island, and so your air security is assured. Patrol boats are also patrolling the waterways...

The government of Hudecia expresses its support for The Zoogie People, West Pacific and Shildonia. We will support them militarily if necessary although we would prefer a diplomatic solution.

1) Recognizing or failing to recognize a nation is hardly a reason to go to war.
2) Moreover, voicing diplomatic support for a nation (however dislikeable) is not a crime until they support them militarily.

So, Hallad's war is not justifiable and hence should be stopped. We urge Iuthia to become involved to maintain the status quo, Hallad's military aggression is dangerous since they have proven themselves willing to fight someone over, in diplomatic terms, the drop of a hat.

We will wage a war to defend Shildonia if necessary, but not to invade Hallad or Hattia.

While we appreciate the kind offer of mediation from The Zoogie People, we feel that attempting to negotiate with this "True Directorate" may prove almost impossible, given that their current diplomatic position is to issue demands with the threat of violence, like a terrorist.
Furthermore, the Haladian claim that the People's Republic was in some way involved in the massacre of civillians seems somewhat contrary to their claim that the people are in favour of war. Surely if we had massacred civillians in such numbers as are claimed, the people would be unwilling to risk further massacres? Something seems amiss.

Message to Hallad and Shildonia leaders:

The government of the Community of Bariloche, as a Protector of the Legion of Defence will make its best effort to achieve a diplomatic solution to this conflict (as it was stated perfectly by the other non-directly involved Protectors of the Zoogie People and Unum Veritas), but in case that military actions take place, we will most certainly support Shildonia, since we do not believe they did anything to deserve this attack, and within the Charter of the LoD any unprovoked attack to a member has to make all the Protectors to help the same.

Until the LoD presents a formal plan of action and/or the actual attacks take place, military forces of Bariloche will be on 3AE (Alerta de Ataque a Aliados Extranjeros, Alert of Attack on Foreign Allies): All expeditionary forces will be active and permanently prepared for departure, and every communication and intelligence resource will be aware of any changes in the situation.

In case that both parties really wish to come to dialogue we can offer a newly inaugurated Diplomacy Building, and addition to our Llao Llao, the residence and working office of most of our political oficials and militar leaders. Being it so, everyone can be certain that no danger will threaten the diplomats sent to the meeting and that everything will be done to insure that both parties recognize and treat each other appropiately within the rules of diplomacy.

The safety of the diplomats in case of military actions to start is personally insured by me, President Pablo Bernal. I assure both nations that no harm will come to their representants (OOC: and if I harm any of them so be I ignored ever after), but please try to work this out.

Respectfully,
Pablo Bernal
President
Community of Bariloche

I will back Hallad if all diplomacy efforts are not met. I will not go to war "anymore" without trying diplomacy first. It saves me troops and money.

Message to the government of Communist Louisiana and all of The International:

If you concur with the LoD in that war is the last resort and that all diplomatic resources must have ended with no results for starting it, then please ask the leader of Hallad to dialogue with Shildonia.

Respectfully,
Pablo Bernal
President
Community of Bariloche

The Incorporated States of Exonerate, a member of the Legion of Defense, urges both sides to seek a peaceful resolution to this conflict. We will standby Shildonia, but do not wish to see any bloodshed over this. Although Hallad has accused Shildonia of supposedly supporting Nazis, we see no evidence pointing that way - all we have is a quote from Shildonia expressing recognition of a new government. Hardly an act of support. Although we do not support the NHO in any way, shape, or form, we will not allow Shildonia to be invaded.

We find Hattia's excessive warmongering concerning - if every nation started a war everytime a government gave legal recognition to another government, we would be back to the stone age. If Shildonia requests, we will provide a small defense contingency to repel a possible military invasion.
http://www.iownjoo.com/freeimghost/Exonerate/gendo.jpg
Enlightened Despot of The Incorporated States of Exonerate
Commander of Ground Forces and Protectorate of the Legion of Defense (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=110544)
Member of the New Nations Alliance (http://www.wolfserve.net/NewNations/news.php)

We find Hattia's excessive warmongering concerning - if every nation started a war everytime a government gave legal recognition to another government, we would be back to the stone age. If Shildonia requests, we will provide a small defense contingency to repel a possible military invasion.


How am I warmongering, I said I would defend Hallad, and I support his war. I never declared war on anyone, I just said if Zoogie declared war on Hallad, I would defend Hallad.

Hm... well, Iuthia has got a good war record as well as a reasonable diplomatic record. We have always tried to be fair in our dealings, though often we take the side of the underdog when we should just ignore the injustices against them.

As such Iuthia will be willing to provide some additional support in a diplomatic solution to this affair, we have in other situations pushed enemies of Shildonia to take up diplomacy... though few nations are willing to try.

We support The Zoogie People's view that diplomacy should be exhausted first, to stop any wars being declared for poor reasons... to many nations are willing to invade onthe drop of a hat. Talking of which...

I will back Hallad if all diplomacy efforts are not met. I will not go to war "anymore" without trying diplomacy first. It saves me troops and money.

This is good news... should it continue we may re-think our position with your nation. Though that would depend on your nation being able to keep a cool head for a change.


Moving on, does anyone have an idea of a venture? I feel a neutral nation would be most suited for the circumstances and Iuthia is relatively neutral because we have declared our dis-trust in both the International and Shinoxia. Of course, I'm more then willing for another nation to take the responcability... it would mean less responcability on my part.

Good luck eitherway,

Lord General deGritz, leader of Iuthia

We find Hattia's excessive warmongering concerning - if every nation started a war everytime a government gave legal recognition to another government, we would be back to the stone age. If Shildonia requests, we will provide a small defense contingency to repel a possible military invasion.


How am I warmongering, I said I would defend Hallad, and I support his war. I never declared war on anyone, I just said if Zoogie declared war on Hallad, I would defend Hallad.
Oh please, you tried to justify a war with Shildonia by citing their recognition of the NHO. Shildonia did nothing to aid them, you are grasping at straws here.

They did support the NHO. They invaded Hallad to help them!

Woa! Can we clear this up before we go anywhere?

1) Does Shildonia support this NHO?
2) Did Shildonia invade Hallad or not?

He did both of those. I can post a link to the thread if you like.

Between a rock and a hard place here but the decision is simple.

As a member of the Legion of Defense and the Secretary of War for the UnAPS Alliance for which Iuthia and Hattia belong. Any attack on either of these Nations lands will be an attack on Phyrric and UnAPS. This is where the loyalty lies and Phyrric will remain neutral unless such before said actions are taken.

Pyrrhus

It is the longstanding policy of the People's Republic not to comment on the particulars of possible military operations until the files relating to said operations are declassified.
That said, the Shildonian Attorney General ruled that taking military action to prevent a friendly government being overthrown by forces not indigenous to that governments area of control is legal. If these allegations are true (and there is little evidence that they are), then there has been no wrongdoing.

----

Secret IC bit:
Vulcan-class bombers have begun flying airbourne alert. Each Vulcan carries 12 ACMs with live warheads. They will go no closer than 2000 miles from Halladian airspace, unless ordered otherwise.

Transmission to the World

<Transmission to the world>
<Diplomatic Corp>
{Encryption 3857}

Garrison II does not consider Shildonia an ally or a friend but in this case it will aid Shildonia in the event of war.

{Transmission Over}

http://www.gamespy.com/avatars/av/FN/fn650.gif
Lady Taylor
Lady of Garrison II
House of David
Lady of York

IF you go to war I will support you.


I will send these troops:
30 T-90 tanks
3,000,000 troops armed with AK-47s

***Secret Transmission to Hallad***
:I am sending you a very...fun....gift. A 2 megaton nuke
***End Transmission****

My troops will be under the command of my most loyal General, General Carmon.

Waaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrr! :twisted:

We still are hoping to handle things through Diplomacy. I am going to be looking through the Hallad civil war archives... If I find anything, I will post it. If you do not want to wait for my answers.. The following link will bring you to the page.

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2771251#2771251



Dax Johnson
Commissar of Diplomacy
New Orleans, Louisiana

OOC: Sorry all was away for a day and missed a hell of alot. Sorry Shildonia I forgot to TG you about the thread

IC:
We will only resort to war if negotiations fail.
The True Directorate of Hallad has made several simple demands:

1) Payment to any [Jewish, Homosexual, True Directorate] survivors of this miniture holocaust who lost loved ones and/or survived the executions.

2) 20 Million USD to help the rebuilding process.

That is all. Of course, as we are in negotiations, these can change.

The following quote comes from the First Page of the civil war. He is promoting Nazi's taking over here.

Shildonia
The NHO is hereby recognised as the true government of Hallad. They are therefore invited to establish an embassy in Shildonia City so that closer ties may be developed between our nations.
In order to prevent hostile action being taken against the Halladian government, a flight of four F-52 Minotaurs and an E-3 Sentry have been sent to take up position near Halad. They will patrol for six hours before being relieved by another four Minotaurs and E-3. Each Minotaur carries 54 Phoenix missiles.

The following quote comes again from Shildonia on the 2nd page of the civil war.

Shildonia
Two Airbus 320s wearing the hastily painted livery of the civillian aid committee of Wyke head towards an airfield inside communist territory, (one that's a fair distance from the nearest military base if possible). However, this was no mission of mercy. Each aircraft was carrying 250 highly trained soldiers from the elite Durham Light Infantry division of the Shildonian Paratroop Regiment. Their orders: seize and hold the airport until reinforcements can arrive.
The reinforcements in question were about 90 minutes flying time behind the first assault wave and consisted of 4 Airbus A380s carrying 555 paratroopers each(although they would actually disembark on the ground rather than jumping out), and a further 3 A380s carrying a total of 9 Apache Longbows with suport staff and ordanace.

"Tower, we are a flight of two A380s carrying aid from the civillian aid committe of Wyke, requesting permission to land" The pilots of the two aircraft hoped that the darkness outside would hide the rather slapdash paintjob enough that noone would notice it was fake.

The following is also from the 2nd Page of the civil war

Shildonia
As soon as the first A320 lands the large cargo doors swing open and troops begin jumping out. A 16 man squad armed with silenced MP-5s and stun grenades goes to seize the control tower.
Every soldier wears special clothing designed to reduce their thermal signature, and an all black uniform with no unit or rank insignia.
Demolitions experts are sent to destroy communications systems, as well as any military aircraft stationed at New Dublin.
Other troops begin setting up 50 machine gun nests with interlocking arcs of fire to cover the main runway. Each machine gun nest is protected from small arms fire by sandbags.
Behind the ring of machine guns are 20 3 man teams equipped with Milan anti-tank rockets to defend against armoured vehicles.
Once the second aircraft lands, additional teams will attempt to seize control of all routes in and out of the airfield.

The second wave of transports begins flying towards New Dublin escorted by the four F-52s and the E-3. The current wave of F-52s have 40 Phoenix missiles, and 10 500lb JDAM bombs for close air support should it be needed.

The following was located on page three of the civil war

Shildonia
As soon as the F-52s got within 50 miles of the airfield a barrage of Phoenix missiles were fired at the enemy Migs. Using a sophisticated data relay system, the Minotaurs were able to launch the missiles without activating their radar. Instead, the E-3 provided guidance up until 12 miles before impact, at which point the Phoenixs onboard radar activated. This onboard radar was connected to a system capable of calculating the speed of the target, and disregarding it if it is travelling at less than 75mph, thus making it impervious to low tech countermeasures such as chaff and flares.
As soon as the Migs are chased away the transports will begin landing, with priority being given to the planes carrying infantry.

A third wave of reinforcements is also on their way, this time carrying two batteries (a total of 8 vehicles) of Caeser howitzers, additional supplies for all the forces involved, an Artillery Locating Radar system, 1000 additional troops, and Rapier air defence systems. These will also be escorted in by a flight of 4 F-52s and an E-3, along with six Vulcan heavy bombers to provide CAS, and anti-radar missiles to fight their way towards New Dublin airfield. ETA 5 hours.

Also, could you perhaps mark New Dublin on the map next time? Just so I know where my people are.

Page 4

Shildonia
Scud attack: As soon as the Scuds were detected by the E-3 troops quickly donned their NBC suits in case "special" weapons were used in the warheads. Two hangers were destroyed, as was one of the terminals and a hotel bordering the airport. Another device landed close to the control tower wounding 12 troops, who have since been airlifted to safety. Parts of the taxi area were hit twice, and troops have set to work filling in the holes.

The Vulcans that accompanied the 3rd wave of reinforcements expended most of their ordanance on the enemy troop formations surrounding the airport, although the path towards the city wall was attacked with 2 cluster bombs using 3600 bomblets with delayed fuses, which will detonate at random intervals over the next seven days. Railway bridges leading to the city, particularly those to the south were also hit using GPS guided bombs.
Caeser artillery batteries have also set up beneath camoflague netting, with 16 infatable Caesers distributed in other positions, along with a number of inflatable tanks. The inflatables will be moved around occaisonally to make them look real, and sometimes dummies will be placed nearby to further add to the illusion.

Page 5

Shildonia
The Shildonian Flying Corps. mounts a night-time air raid against the three Haladi Armoured Divisions. Each division is attacked by two Venona-class supersonic bombers carrying 80 Mk20 Rockeye anti-armour cluster bombs each, a total of 39,520 bomblets on each. The path towards the targets were cleared by Vampire class stealth bombers carrying 20 Tacit Rainbows and 15 Kryptons - both anti radar missiles with ranges of 50miles and 44miles respectively.

Meanwhile, engineers at New Dublin airfield have decided it is safe to land the largest aircraft in the Shildonian Flying Corps. inventory - the RT-1707.
Three of the aircraft are bringing in an additional 3000 troops, two aircraft are bringing in a total of 16 Challenger 2 MBTs. A final aircraft is bringing additional fuel and supplies, as well as a pair of Pathfinder minefield clearance units, four Combat Bulldozers to construct additional defences, and five Patriot SAM systems, with additional missiles. As usual, the cargo planes will be escorted to the airfield by 4 F-52s and an E-3

Page 5 again

Shildonia
Three Phoenix missiles are launched at each Mig-29 from a range of 115miles. Twelve miles from the targets, the Phoenix's switch to their own active radar. Slow moving radar contacts such as chaff would automatically be disregarded by the onboard computers.
Each aircraft was equipped with a multitude of systems to defend against missile attack, ranging from low-tech chaff and flares, to high-tech lasers designed to blind the sensors on heat seeking missiles, as well as jamming systems.

All the following has been pulled from the link. I think in the end, it is easy for everyone to tell that Shildonia DID SUPPORT nazi's.. They also DID direct attacks against anti-communist forces. And finally they DID in part invade Hallad.

I think that's the proof they want...

Thats right, all of you supporting Shildonia, let the information presented to you by my nation sink it. Notice that I am going out my way to prove that Shildonia should pay in full to Hallad.

Any operations that may have taken place were done so with the intention of preventing the Halladian government from being overthrown by Communist forces, many of which came from outside of Hallad in order to subject innocent people to toil under the yoke of Communist oppression.

Shildonia
Any operations that may have taken place were done so with the intention of preventing the Halladian government from being overthrown by Communist forces, many of which came from outside of Hallad in order to subject innocent people to toil under the yoke of Communist oppression.

Your all of a sudden admitting to going and invading Hallad??? Wether you know it or not, you have just made a public confession. You were backing Nazi forces. That is the main point. SO I dont like your government. I am not gonna send all that military equipment just to destroy you. YET.... I think that Hallads demands are small and easy to pay. If you think about it, it will cost you alot more to try to defend your homeland and to keep troops mobilized.

OOC: Sorry all was away for a day and missed a hell of alot. Sorry Shildonia I forgot to TG you about the thread

IC:
We will only resort to war if negotiations fail.
The True Directorate of Hallad has made several simple demands:

1) Payment to any [Jewish, Homosexual, True Directorate] survivors of this miniture holocaust who lost loved ones and/or survived the executions.

2) 20 Million USD to help the rebuilding process.

That is all. Of course, as we are in negotiations, these can change.

Alright then, let's go to negotiations...I would suggest Iuthia.

Any operations that may have taken place were done so with the intention of preventing the Halladian government from being overthrown by Communist forces, many of which came from outside of Hallad in order to subject innocent people to toil under the yoke of Communist oppression.

I also would like to suggest Iuthia.

Alright then, let's go to negotiations...I would suggest Iuthia.

We will not negotiate with terrorists.

Wether you will addmit it or not, you did support nazi's. Dont even say MAY have supported. I have all that evidence against you. If anyone else would like to see for themselves. just look at the pages I have given... And you my friend, are a terrorist so dont even try to act all high and mighty b/c I know for a fact your trying to get yourself out of this situation.

Supported Nazis for What reason? Not because they were Nazis...but because they were under oppression...Shildonia has already said why. And for your information, Shildonia is most certainly not a terrorist.

Shildonia, even if you may consider them to be terrorists, they are only communists. Iuthia has ensured your safety(I think), and you know that failure to negotiate with them will lead to conflict, which we do not wish to see.

Their demands are unjust? Here is your chance to say so and make clear once and for all why.[/i]

[code:1:f36d8507e4]
To the nation of Hallad,

We do not support communism or Naziism, or your nation's government for that matter. We are slightly mistrustful, but nevertheless realize that your nation has been through a civil war. Civil wars ravage the nation and its citizens. Civilian casualties are always inevitable, but almost never with intent. Still, the damage done to the civilian's life in your nation is surely great.

This is not to say we are supporting your nation. However, we are willing to offer international aid to your [i]citizens[/i] affected by the war, so that their lives may go on. No matter how much we are opposed to each other in matter of diplomacy, in attempting to reduce civilian casualties nearly all nations are united.

$20 million will be sent to the International Red Cross (well, we've got to pretend there is one, right?) to aid in rebuilding your citizens' lives. Do NOT take out your frustration in this damaging war on Shildonia. He may not be on your side, but he also did not intend casualties.

Do not mistake this $20 million as a means of improving relations between us. We are still prepared to defend Shildonia from you. This money is to help your citizens, and your citizens only.
[/code:1:f36d8507e4]

Wether you will addmit it or not, you did support nazi's. Dont even say MAY have supported. I have all that evidence against you. If anyone else would like to see for themselves. just look at the pages I have given... And you my friend, are a terrorist so dont even try to act all high and mighty b/c I know for a fact your trying to get yourself out of this situation.

I'll see you in court (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=129312)

Hallad, IF you go to war (hopefully it will be settled peacefully) you can use the troops I mentioned earlier.


I might have to withdraw my troops to help my other ally, who might be your ally, Credonia.

Shildonia claims that other communist nations were involved in the civil war in Hallad.

Is this true?

The Empire of Imperial Guardsmen offers its full political support to Hallad, but we cannot lend any military support due to Military Planners finding no way of defeating Shildonia without calling in our powerful allies which we do not want to do.

Did I support Communism in Hallad? Yes.. Was I going to send troops and if so were they one their way? Yes.. Did they ever land and fight against any forces in Hallad? NO..

I supported the first and only true government. The issue is not who supported the Communist, the issue here is who supported mass genocide, who supported Nazi forces, and most of all WHO left those bombs that killed innocent civilians. As a communist, I dont attack civilian forces. Shildonia here did.. And to try to get everyone to forget about his screew up, he tries to bring me to court and destroy my economy by demanding 1 trillion plus dollars. He is a moron and he complete and total jackass.

Shildonia claims that other communist nations were involved in the civil war in Hallad.

Is this true?

What does this have to do with anything?

---------------------------------------
To the government of Shildonia:

The people of Bariloche is very sad to hear that these actions were in fact carried out by Shildonia. We, as your ally, ask to comply to Hallad's requests (which we find very reasonable) or to negotiate with them if you don't find the terms agreeable. Understand that if the shildonian government doesn't accept that Hallad's claim have a very strong base, we will not be able to help you in any way, not even as a member of the LoD.

Respectfully,
Pablo Bernal
President
Community of Bariloche
---------------------------------------

---------------------------------------
To the government of Hallad:

We respect your claim in the shildonian situation and we'll do our best to help negotiations carry on to a good ending for all parties. We are sorry for all the people that could have suffered for our ally's actions and would like to stablish good diplomatic relations between our countries. Feel free to request offices in our Diplomatic Building for stablishing an embassy.

Pablo Bernal
President
Community of Bariloche
---------------------------------------

---------------------------------------
To all members of the Legion of Defense involved:

We will ask for the LoD to take an official stand in front of these serious accusations, and we expect that discusions in this subject will be carried out fast and with the respect they deserve.

Pablo Bernal
President
Community of Bariloche
---------------------------------------

Public statement of the people?s commissariat of foreign affairs:

Our deepest sympathy goes to the people and the ruling party in Hallad, the PRC herewith offers you the hand of friendship. We will contribute all we can to make the suffering in your heroic nation end. The oppression of fascism is as much a crime as the oppression of rapists is! Your glorious actions against the enemies of mankind have been brave and just. They have the total approval of the masses in the PRC and of all working men and women and all friends of democracy on earth!

If the imperialist warmongers in Shildonia will continue their politics of tension be aware that you are not alone. The PRC and its army are ready to stand side by side with their class brothers to defend the rights of Hallad. Long live the international solidarity!

Shildonia claims that other communist nations were involved in the civil war in Hallad.

Is this true?

What does this have to do with anything?

Because then it would have been the communist from other countries going in to fight teh war in Hallad and claim to be Halladi soldeirs. Then Shildonia could claim to have truly gone in as a peacekeeping force defending Hallad from a invasion from outside forces.

OOC: Much like the Muslims in Chechnya, at the beginning of the second Chechen war most true Chechens wanted no fighting and would rather stay united with Russia than fight a war with them. It wasn't till after the Russians started killing the Chechens instead of the Muslims invading from the south that the Chechens opinion started going against the Russians. Just a comparison to RL for you to dwell on. The Halladi Nazis are the Chechens, the Communist are the Russians, and Shildonia is the UN and NATO sending in peacekeeping forces, or something like that.

IC: I am confused as to who was in power at the time and who the rebels were. Are the Nazis the rebels or the true government of Hallad or are the Communist the true governing body in Hallad?

The first and ONLY government in Hallad now is Communist. They had control of the country when the war started.. Now that it is over, they still control.


Shildionia can not be called a Peacekeeper. A peacekeeper doesnt kill troops or civilians. Read the evidence I have posted against him.. A peacekeeper would stay nutral on BOTH sides. He helped the Nazi's, THEN he waged war on the Communist forces of the TRUE government. If he is a Peacekeeper, then I am black. And geuss what, I am WHITE!!!

That will be all..

The first and ONLY government in Hallad now is Communist. They had control of the country when the war started.. Now that it is over, they still control.


Shildionia can not be called a Peacekeeper. A peacekeeper doesnt kill troops or civilians. Read the evidence I have posted against him.. A peacekeeper would stay nutral on BOTH sides. He helped the Nazi's, THEN he waged war on the Communist forces of the TRUE government. If he is a Peacekeeper, then I am black. And geuss what, I am WHITE!!!

That will be all..

Ditto, landing troops in a nation and attacking forces of the legitimate government is not peacekeeping.

OCC:I should really be a lawyer. lmfao

Shildonia still is a Peacekeeper. He fought against the powers of evil. Nazi. And even fought on Communist Forces, a real peacekeeper should do. Reminding the time Iraq tried to invade Kuwait. Peacekeeping forces had to land there to prevent another attack and wage an operation on Iraq, OPeration Desert Storm.


Keep talking and you both can get nuked and wage war with me.

Shildonia still is a Peacekeeper. He fought against the powers of evil. Nazi. And even fought on Communist Forces, a real peacekeeper should do. Reminding the time Iraq tried to invade Kuwait. Peacekeeping forces had to land there to prevent another attack and wage an operation on Iraq, OPeration Desert Storm.


Keep talking and you both can get nuked and wage war with me.

He invaded and supported nazi rebels. And just try to nuke me and see what happens, I can glass you a thousand times over...

Shildonia still is a Peacekeeper. He fought against the powers of evil. Nazi. And even fought on Communist Forces, a real peacekeeper should do. Reminding the time Iraq tried to invade Kuwait. Peacekeeping forces had to land there to prevent another attack and wage an operation on Iraq, OPeration Desert Storm.


Keep talking and you both can get nuked and wage war with me.

He invaded and supported nazi rebels. And just try to nuke me and see what happens, I can glass you a thousand times over...

Yes. Nazi rebels. Anti-Nazis are Nazi rebels.


Glass me thousand times? Well, try thinking when NWO will start helping and maybe AMF?

Well, we stand corrected then.

However, we still urge both sides to settle down and compromise. Military conflict should always be a last-resort. It is clear that neither side wants this to turn into a military conflict.

Shildonia, we beg of you to find a compromise with Hallad. A policy of no negotiation is not very constructive...

Remember you dumbass, Peacekeeping troops didnt shoot at Iraqi troops. The Peacekeepers sent aid and weapons to resistance groups and helped the US land.

He went in, helped rebel nazi forces, THAT WERE IN MINORITY!!!!!! NOT MAJORITY!!!!! So does that mean its ok for a person to invade the US b/c the KKK doesnt have it their way???? B/c so far thats exactly what your saying... Just b/c 100 people out of MILLIONS arent happy with a government does mean that they should get help from a foreign country..
Just admit that you and Shildonia are arguing with me for the simple fact that you hate Communism. And if I know one thing for damn sure, YOU frankly know nothing about it. You might be older, and you might have a larger army... But, I have a brain and instead of making pointless threats like you and Shildonia... Why dont you keep your mouth shut comrade, befor you let all of nation states know you are a complete and total retard..


That will be all...

By the way, dont threaten me with Nuclear war.... I rather have my nation completely destroyed and kill millions of your own people with a nuclear stockpiles of mine and biological weapons then coward in fear to your moron type ways. You are just like Shildonia and I think you should also accept the following flag as your own.
http://207.44.246.196/586/48/upload/p561.jpg

Please, don't flame, it damages your otherwise good argument...

Though I must admit, it looks a little close to a situation I've seen before.

Lord General deGritz, leader of the Iuthian people.
President of the NAIA (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=75900&highlight=)

Urbanites (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=display_region/region=Urbanites)
OOC Information on Iuthia (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=109898&highlight=)

OOC: Little hint CL, ATA has been known to GODMOD, so you can probably ignore him. From what I've read his nation has already been glassed.

Yes. Nazi rebels. Anti-Nazis are Nazi rebels.


Glass me thousand times? Well, try thinking when NWO will start helping and maybe AMF?

I mean rebels that are nazis...

Like his new flag says "its those damn communist!"

That will be all. Thank you

OCC:Should I be having this much fun.. Screew war, harsh diplomacy is funner.

OCC:Should I be having this much fun.. Screew war, harsh diplomacy is funner.

OOC: Why do you think Iuthia has been in only 2 wars (both of which ended before forces could be deployed)...

It's because grilling a nation for their actions is much more fun, especially when you are large and relatively influencial (though not too influencial I notice)...

Hell, it's fun watching most nations squirm when they realise that Iuthia isn't a Feb 04 nation, but a Feb 03 nation...

An Address to the people, Emperor Dak I:

"We will not turn our back on our ally hallad!!!! We support him fully in any action, and may also support him with military personel if need be. Death to Fascism! up with the proletariat!"

"We now return you to your regular programming"

It seems that right now there is no need for the PRC to interfere in this case the glorious people of Communist Louisiana is very much abele to stand against a multitude of enemies. How ever if need arises, and negotiations fail the PRC will be ready to help.

We are also able to send doctors, nurses and other volunteers to Hallad to help you rebuild your great nation.

An Address to the people, Emperor Dak I:

"We will not turn our back on our ally hallad!!!! We support him fully in any action, and may also support him with military personel if need be. Death to Fascism! up with the proletariat!"

"We now return you to your regular programming"

The PCR congratulates Comrade Dak I the glorious leader of the heroic people of Dakara for he is a shining examply of loyality and bravery in these days of treason and deciete. Shildonia be warned your criminal behavoiur will not go unpunished, not this time. The world stands united as it stood against the historical nazi thread. The PRC also encorages Hallad to add the extradation of the most notorious criminals of war to the list of demands. Theos responisble for the 'arifield incident' must be handed over to the authorities in Hallad. A military operation without the national insignia on the army personel is a terrorist action according to international law. Therefor those responsible are criminals and Shildonia is hiding them. The PRC won't press that issue by our selfs but will give your our full support on that. We would also like to anouce that the PRC has decidet to award the 'order of the friendship of the people' (http://www.medals.org.uk/russia/rf/images/russia097.jpg) to Dax Johnson for his unparralleled effords to prevent a war and in the same time bring justice to the world. He is a true communist and friend of the people.

Unum Veritas how can you as a NAIA member support facism? You are backing a killer and you know that. The leadership of UV is turning away from the people they have become a chouvinist warmongering gang. If you are going to support the nazis-governement of Shildonia with troops you will be concidered an enemy of the PRC. If you can not support the people in this case due to strange diplomatic moves you should at last remain neutral like Iuthia.

Having had a bit of a talk with an assortment of IRC people, the general conclusion is that you can't simply copy and paste a load of posts and call it proof.
Find some real proof, e.g. Eyewitness accounts, debris (there isn't any because no aircraft were shot down), unexploded munitions (all of which are just US\Russian, and so cannot be conclusively linked to Shildonia).
Maybe there's some radar logs? Not likely because radar sites were attacked, and since none of them fired on any Shildonian aircraft presumably they were destroyed.

----

Another airbourne alert is taking place over the Gulf of Mexico, Two Vulcan-class bombers will be in position at all times, each carrying 12 ACMs.

----

Hallad - start handing over details of what my recon satallites have discovered about you. If you don't then I'm just going to ignore you, which quite frankly I should have done when you virtually refused to take damages after I bombed your tanks with 103,740 cluster bomblets and only caused 10 casualties. Saying "lolz I hide teh tanks" is about as good an RP as "I dodge"

In other developments, three NR-157 nuclear powered reconnaisance aircraft are going to take up position 12.2 miles off the coast of Hallad. They will remain there until further notice.

Don't you think it is reasonable that a armoured division to hide thier tanks at night? Especially when they are not moving.


Everyone seems to be confused about who were the rebels in Hallad's civil war.
The Fascist Group: The New Halladi Order were rebeling against the Socialist government: The True Directorate.

Our people are far from oppressed. In fact, they had VOTED IN Socialists. How can the people be oppressed if they voted in a group of Democratic Socialists?! The people of Hallad seem happy enough with thier decision. After all, the True Directorate never FORCED people to go to the front lines. The NHO did.

Supported Nazis for What reason? Not because they were Nazis...but because they were under oppression...Shildonia has already said why. And for your information, Shildonia is most certainly not a terrorist.

Shildonia, even if you may consider them to be terrorists, they are only communists. Iuthia has ensured your safety(I think), and you know that failure to negotiate with them will lead to conflict, which we do not wish to see.

Their demands are unjust? Here is your chance to say so and make clear once and for all why.[/i]

[code:1:47d06fb702]
To the nation of Hallad,

We do not support communism or Naziism, or your nation's government for that matter. We are slightly mistrustful, but nevertheless realize that your nation has been through a civil war. Civil wars ravage the nation and its citizens. Civilian casualties are always inevitable, but almost never with intent. Still, the damage done to the civilian's life in your nation is surely great.

This is not to say we are supporting your nation. However, we are willing to offer international aid to your [i]citizens[/i] affected by the war, so that their lives may go on. No matter how much we are opposed to each other in matter of diplomacy, in attempting to reduce civilian casualties nearly all nations are united.

$20 million will be sent to the International Red Cross (well, we've got to pretend there is one, right?) to aid in rebuilding your citizens' lives. Do NOT take out your frustration in this damaging war on Shildonia. He may not be on your side, but he also did not intend casualties.

Do not mistake this $20 million as a means of improving relations between us. We are still prepared to defend Shildonia from you. This money is to help your citizens, and your citizens only.
[/code:1:47d06fb702]

If other nations supported the Communist government of Hallad they would be considered invading nations. In which case it would be justifiable for Shildonia to get involved.

OOC: Think of the Spanish Civil war before WW2, when Hitler and Stalin became involved it became a legitimate cause for other democratic nations to intervene.

This is an OOC post to Shildonia:

I'm waiting your response, you know where
BTW, what IRC chanel are you using, the official NS one?

If other nations supported the Communist government of Hallad they would be considered invading nations. In which case it would be justifiable for Shildonia to get involved.


It is not invading if they come in with the consent of the legitimate government...

if we the people who helped the true Directorate were teh invaders, wouldn't we be occupying Hallad by now?

Supported Nazis for What reason? Not because they were Nazis...but because they were under oppression...Shildonia has already said why. And for your information, Shildonia is most certainly not a terrorist.

Shildonia, even if you may consider them to be terrorists, they are only communists. Iuthia has ensured your safety(I think), and you know that failure to negotiate with them will lead to conflict, which we do not wish to see.

Their demands are unjust? Here is your chance to say so and make clear once and for all why.[/i]

[code:1:aae5c9e0de]
To the nation of Hallad,

We do not support communism or Naziism, or your nation's government for that matter. We are slightly mistrustful, but nevertheless realize that your nation has been through a civil war. Civil wars ravage the nation and its citizens. Civilian casualties are always inevitable, but almost never with intent. Still, the damage done to the civilian's life in your nation is surely great.

This is not to say we are supporting your nation. However, we are willing to offer international aid to your [i]citizens[/i] affected by the war, so that their lives may go on. No matter how much we are opposed to each other in matter of diplomacy, in attempting to reduce civilian casualties nearly all nations are united.

$20 million will be sent to the International Red Cross (well, we've got to pretend there is one, right?) to aid in rebuilding your citizens' lives. Do NOT take out your frustration in this damaging war on Shildonia. He may not be on your side, but he also did not intend casualties.

Do not mistake this $20 million as a means of improving relations between us. We are still prepared to defend Shildonia from you. This money is to help your citizens, and your citizens only.
[/code:1:aae5c9e0de]


The Government and People of Hallad thank you. As this is for the people every cent shall go to them. Although this will not improve our relations, Hallad thanks you anyway.

OCC:I am taking a month trip to Cuba where I am going to school and what not. I will be back in a month or less. I will be on Very seldome only if I can get ahold of a laptop while thier. Other than that all attacks on Louisiana while gone will be ignored.


it seems that shildonia is feeling that he is losing ground on diplomacy efforts for the fact that he is a complete and total retard for his sake and the worlds sake I hope the people who he dictates over arent as stupied. Anyways, if I wasnt leaving I would invite you to try to take New Orelans. With swamp and shallow bayous all around it would be immposible to bring in heavy mobile vehicles. The Mississippi River can be filled with mines in less then 24 hours. Also it is a 9 hour trip from the Gulf of Mexico to the city. you would have a HELL of a time getting my government. Also I have more than 30 countries delegates from the International their. So if you were to launch attacks they would see it as a declaration of war upon them so you woudl have about 30 three to four month old nations going after you. I have closed down airspace to New Orleans since the International has started and have more that 100 MiG-29's and F-16's in the air at all times patroling. So if you were to launch a plane it would be shot b/c it would be the only one up their. I have more than 17 nuclear weapons ready to launch at your nation if you dare attack me with a nuclear weapon. I also have more than 30 in other countries that I could have launched. (note that these 30 are not in nations of mine but in nations I have set them up with)

Now for the big BIG thing. Hallad my comrade, I am giving you until I get back HALF of my overall budget... You use it to rebuild and you use it to help defend yourself against these morons of Shildonia.

ALSO, if you would like to see the civil war itself that happened in Hallad where Shildonia supported Nazi terrorist, go to the MANY links I have provided for you on previous pages. Shildonia give up, you suck at proving yourself wrong. Maybe you should hire a real lawyer..


*Secrete Transmission to halladen government* I am giving you full power of my 10 Submarine Launched Balistic Missiles(SLBM) Los Angeles Class Submarines. If you are attack by anynation with a nuclear or chemical weapon while I am on "leave" you use these 10 Nuclear Subs. I will have Louisianaian troops still control them but they are under your command. Also if you get in trouble with them thats your asses not ours.

I am take my leave. Power to the Proletariate and screew capitalism.

It is not invading if they come in with the consent of the legitimate government...

And the NHO was the legitimate government. From a certain point of view.

----

Hallad - Unless you hid them underneath a few inches of concrete there would still have been large casualties. The entire point of cluster bombs is that vast swathes of land get blanketed with bomblets. The location of the tanks could be determined from satallite photos, and then the bombs just get dropped around that area.
Interestingly, I found this (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/fogofwar/archive/post020491.htm) news report from the First Persian Gulf War, stating that:


Among the 2,700 allied sorties launched as part of Operation Desert Storm yesterday were four Marine AV-8B Harrier jets that attacked 25 to 30 Iraqi tanks attempting to hide in southern Kuwait. Dropping 24 Rockeye cluster bombs, the Marine pilots reported "25 Iraqi tanks destroyed or at least burning," Johnston said

Bear in mind that I dropped a total of 480 Rockeyes, and that those Iraqis were also attempting to hide. Even given that these Marines may have been exagerating, it's still a pretty decent result.
They had a 104% accuracy (probably less, but even so it's gonna be pretty high), I had a 2% accuracy. See the discrepancy? I wouldn't normally make such a big deal out of it, but if that raid had had a decent casualty rate the True Directorate might have lost the war, or at least not won it as quickly.

CL, why doesn't your flag say Damn those capitalists? :P

Also, note that Hallad doesn't require money to DEFEND himself. Have you not noticed - he is the aggressor now!

You know, I love the way how some people just disregard all sense of reality. Can you imagine George Bush going on holiday and saying "Yo, Israel, help your self to my military budget and whatever equipment you want"? Come to think of it, can you imagine George Bush saying "Yo"?

Now if you ignore attacks on yourself, I will ignore attacks from you.
And if you did shoot down a Shildonian aircraft in international airspace it would be an act of war, and the fact that said aircraft was part of the nuclear deterrent would make it even more serious.
Anyway, I don't want to invade your country, I never said I wanted to invade your country.

Bon voyage, and try not to catch malaria.

OCC: Dont worry I dont plan to catch malaria just sweet long sex from your mom.. :twisted: Also, hallad isnt the agressors Jaggedy. You dont even know the whole story. Read the civil war. Read all this. Read Where the morons of Shildonia try to sue me. Then speak. Give yourself knowledge b4 you let all all doubt that you to are a retard.


ITS THOSE DAMN COMMUNIST!!!!!!!!!!

Someone: Yo!

GWB: Y'all!

Well, Hallad, your civilness is noted.

I was being sincere. Since all you seem to do is hurl personal abuse at me I will simply ignore you permanently.

OCC: Dont worry I dont plan to catch malaria just sweet long sex from your mom.. :twisted: Also, hallad isnt the agressors Jaggedy. You dont even know the whole story. Read the civil war. Read all this. Read Where the morons of Shildonia try to sue me. Then speak. Give yourself knowledge b4 you let all all doubt that you to are a retard.

OOC: Quit flaming, you are starting to sound like a bit of a pillock.

Who is to say that the Nazis did not invite Shildonia into the country? In that case he would be not invading Hallad, just merely accepting an offer from another nation to enter their nation.

You cannot fight a civil war by first declaring that no one else but your allies can get involved. In reality, that logic would not stand.

OOC: However, in reality we would probably be at war right now instead of discussing this.

perhaps. But he landed in the Socialist held capitol, claiming to be bringing humanitarian relief. His forces landed and killed the airport workers.

perhaps. But he landed in the Socialist held capitol, claiming to be bringing humanitarian relief. His forces landed and killed the airport workers.

Wouldn't impersenating humanitarian aid workers possibly be a war crime?

perhaps. But he landed in the Socialist held capitol, claiming to be bringing humanitarian relief. His forces landed and killed the airport workers.

Wouldn't impersenating humanitarian aid workers possibly be a war crime?

and an act of terrorism

perhaps. But he landed in the Socialist held capitol, claiming to be bringing humanitarian relief. His forces landed and killed the airport workers.

Wouldn't impersenating humanitarian aid workers possibly be a war crime?

and an act of terrorism

Yes. Hallad should sue them in the International Court of Justice.

OOC: Like the Red Cross, lets pretend it too exists :)

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how they know Shildonian troops were present at this airfield. Like I said, copying and pasting a post isn't really good enough. All you've got is that transmission from Wyke, which incidently noone has posted yet.

----

The People's Republic is sovereign nation, and as a sovereign nation there can be no law higher than that of Shildonian law. As such we do not recognise this "International Court of Justice", and if any attempt is made to kidnap Shildonian citizens to face a witch hunt a full response will be taken.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how they know Shildonian troops were present at this airfield. Like I said, copying and pasting a post isn't really good enough. All you've got is that transmission from Wyke, which incidently noone has posted yet.

----

The People's Republic is sovereign nation, and as a sovereign nation there can be no law higher than that of Shildonian law. As such we do not recognise this "International Court of Justice", and if any attempt is made to kidnap Shildonian citizens to face a witch hunt a full response will be taken.

If you are hobouring terrorists it is you who will face the consequences. If you don't apply to the UN resolutions you should leave that organisation Imidiatly!


Article 6 § Every UN Member State has the duty to refrain from fomenting civil strife in the territory of another NationState, and to prevent the organization within its territory of activities calculated to foment such civil strife.

UN membership in NationStates is a choice, not a requirement. You can not hide the terrorists and at the same time be a member of the UN. Rumores are that the genocide in Hallad was organized, planned and financed in your nation, with the knowledge of your intelligence agnecies.

To our comrades in Hallad we can asure that the PRC will stand by your side when it comes to a war.

OOC: Crosshill, you didn't answer Shildonia's question, in RL we all know that Shildonian troops were in the Halladian capital, on the other hand inumerous other nation's troops were also nearby.

However, in RP, if the Shildonian government denies that their troops were involved you have to convincingly RP some viable evidence that they were there.

IC:

Quoting the UN Charter, about not fomenting civil strife could also apply to all those nations which became involved on Hallad's side of the civil war. They too were in the position where they were fomenting a civil war by actively supporting one side of the combat. No one can come out of this incident claiming to be guilt free, according to the section you just quoted.

OOC: Shildonesia has not requested a singel thing from me neither IC nor OOC The words of CL and Hallad are proof enough for me. They won't say these things without reason. Just like the death camps in Kosovo or the WMDs in Iraq it is real!:D

IC: These nations if they exist are not on debate here!

OOC:
OOC: Shildonesia has not requested a singel thing from me neither IC nor OOC :D

No?, and what is this?:

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how they know Shildonian troops were present at this airfield. Like I said, copying and pasting a post isn't really good enough. All you've got is that transmission from Wyke, which incidently noone has posted yet.

He asked before this for anyone making claims that shildonian troops were there to show proof. If you make such claim, then he did ask you to present proof.

OOC: double post....

Then perhaps a statement from the former NHO leader during his interrigation would suffice?

Some guys. Shildonia. That's it. They sent support to us. Crippled your airforce good, from what I hear! If it wasn't for your damned Red Army I'd be in Shildonia right now, too!"

We later discovered a saved message on his personal computer to Shildonia asking if he and other NHO leaders could take shelter in there.

OOC: That's better.

Will the international community be granted full access to these witnesses so to as ensure that they are not being coerced?

That Mr Ivanov requested asylum in Shildonia does not mean we supported him or his organisation. On the contrary, many individuals from all around the world make requests for asylum in Shildonia, doubtless because of our high standards of living. All that this request shows is that Mr Ivanov and his followers felt they were being oppressed by the True Directorate's regime.
As for the alleged statement, was Mr Ivanov speaking under some form of duress? If he were, then not only does it vindicate his fears for his safety, but it also casts doubt on the validity of his claims. Perhaps he told your interrogators what they wanted to hear, simply to ease his suffering?

OCC: Damn the airport security. I am sitting with a laptop in New Orleans International Airport(RL)... Anyways, I though Shildonia was being a smart ass when he made that comment earlier. So that was what the wise crack was for.


Shildonia. All Hallad wants is a petty 20 million dollars. Thats enought o buy what 10 M1A2 Abrams alone??? I think you dont want to pay truely, not b/c you "say" that you didnt support Nazi's and terrorism, but b/c you dont want to be proven wrong. The peacekeepers in the war in Iraq shot at Iraqi soliders b/c they invaded Kuiwait. Now, did Hallad invade?? No they didnt, that was apart of thier nation when this minority group staged a coup and took over in the south. They terrorist and nazi facist. By sending troops into COMMUNIST held part of the nation you openly attack the communist regium. It is one thing to help the terrorist defend their part of the nation, but it is a very different thing from you dropping in troops into northern held COMMUNIST territory and killing not only troops, but civilians. This targeting of civilians is terrorism. So you are a terrorist in my eyes. Just admitt to your actions pay the 20 million and we can all go along with our lives. You can continue supporting terrorist and nazi's being of one yourself(OH PLEASE DONT SUE ME FOR WHAT I SAID!!!LMFAO) and I can support and stand up for a government setup by and for the worker.


OCC:That will be my last transmission for a while. Addios

OCC: Damn the airport security. I am sitting with a laptop in New Orleans International Airport(RL)... Anyways, I though Shildonia was being a smart ass when he made that comment earlier. So that was what the wise crack was for.


Shildonia. All Hallad wants is a petty 20 million dollars. Thats enought o buy what 10 M1A2 Abrams alone??? I think you dont want to pay truely, not b/c you "say" that you didnt support Nazi's and terrorism, but b/c you dont want to be proven wrong. The peacekeepers in the war in Iraq shot at Iraqi soliders b/c they invaded Kuiwait. Now, did Hallad invade?? No they didnt, that was apart of thier nation when this minority group staged a coup and took over in the south. They terrorist and nazi facist. By sending troops into COMMUNIST held part of the nation you openly attack the communist regium. It is one thing to help the terrorist defend their part of the nation, but it is a very different thing from you dropping in troops into northern held COMMUNIST territory and killing not only troops, but civilians. This targeting of civilians is terrorism. So you are a terrorist in my eyes. Just admitt to your actions pay the 20 million and we can all go along with our lives. You can continue supporting terrorist and nazi's being of one yourself(OH PLEASE DONT SUE ME FOR WHAT I SAID!!!LMFAO) and I can support and stand up for a government setup by and for the worker.


OCC:That will be my last transmission for a while. Addios

sorry double post. Damn laptop

If it is so little to ask for why even bother? That can be used both ways and it is a terrible reason for demanding something.

"It's only twenty million dollars, hardly worth the trouble but I am going to demand it anyway and make a big fuss about this even though it is only twenty million and you should be able to pay for it just as easy as I could. But that is not the point, it is only twenty million so just pay up."

That is what you people keep saying, if you are going to use that argument you have failed to find a good reason to demand the money and think that will work, saying that usually just earns and IGNORE cannon from me.

Hallad and it's supporters have offered enough proof. Shildonia, we have waited long enough for answers, now pay or we will resort to war.

Damnit... I'll pay half if you guys are going to go to war over 20 Million dollars, it's a crap reason to go to war and it's not hard to pay.

That is why we picked 20 million. It is easy to pay, and at the same time would do alot for the rebuilding. But, Shildonia has beaten around the bush, insulted the chossen government of Hallad over and over again. We will not stand by while nothing happens. Either continue to ask for evidence we have already showed you or pay. The only other alternitive at this point is [unfortunatly] war.

The "evidence" is somewhat inconclusive, and other members of the international community have voiced concerns that this evidence may have been reached through some form of coercion. If this is the case, then it shows which nation is the true criminal
The People's Republic will not bow down to the demands of those whose only language is that of violence. To do so would merely open the floodgates to further spurious demands for "compensation" for events which never occured. If these extortionate demands are not ceased immediately then there will be Shildonian troops in Hallad, and there will be Shildonian aircraft in the skies, and there definitely won't be any $20million.
This is a matter of principle. We will not negotiate with terrorists. To do so would end the effectiveness of this doctrine, and would lead to open season upon our citizens. This will not be allowed to happen.
In the event of any hostilities, command of Shildonia's tactical nuclear weapons will be placed with the commanders in the field. This will enable a swift and decisive response to any aggression on the part of Hallad. Our airbourne alert has now begun moving to a greater tempo of operations, with no less than four bombers being in a position to launch nuclear strikes should the need arise.

----

Four Vulcan class bombers have been sent to fly over the main sea lanes to Hallad in a profile that suggest they are laying mines. In fact they are only dropping concrete blocks into the sea in an attempt to further apply pressure. Escorting them are 4 F-52s and an E-3 Sentry.

President of the Executive Syndicate of the Confederation of Vertosa

I have heard that there is a level of unrest in this region. My Syndicate Secretary for Foreign Affairs is willing to step in to mediate the situation.

Also, please be aware that some nations qualify for Humanitarian Aid. Applications should be made to the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Relations, International Development Unit.

Kindest Regards

President AJ Boden

President of the Executive Syndicate of the Confederation of Vertosa

I have heard that there is a level of unrest in this region. My Syndicate Secretary for Foreign Affairs is willing to step in to mediate the situation.

Also, please be aware that some nations qualify for Humanitarian Aid. Applications should be made to the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Relations, International Development Unit.

Kindest Regards

President AJ Boden

To: President AJ Boden
From: Shildonian Office for Foreign Affairs

While your offer of mediation is noted with appreciation, it will remain the policy of the People's Republic not to negotiate with terrorists. Likewise, we recommend that your government refrains from attempting to prop up these terrorists with offers of aid, especially since these terrorists will probably not be in power for much longer.

Shildonia calling us Terrorists? We should sue on charges of libel!


Official Statement from the Commissariat of War:

Well, well Shildonia shows it's true colors! You continue to be the agressor even when our troops are not mobilized! Sickening...

Official Statement from the True Directorate:

So, you've flown over our sea lanes? In our waters? That is an act of war! And Shildonia is clearly the aggressor here! And to think these terrorists are so cowardly that they threaten US with nuclear war?! We will still negotiate, for the sake of peace.

it's an invasion on soverignty without declaration!

Official statement from the People's Congress

If nuclear weapons are used by either side. They WILL be destroyed...

The True Directorate demands the Shildonian planes leaves Halladi air space immediatly, or they will be shot down.

Many of our forces have been mobilized, though we are not disclosing which.

Official statement from the People's Congress

If nuclear weapons are used by either side. They WILL be destroyed...

i think the idea of mutual destruction shoudl keep them from utlizing them

Orders cancelled, all forces withdrawn.

We are in full support of Hallad.

Official Statement the Commissariat of War [formally the Ministry of War]:

We will only attack the Zoogie People if they attack True Directorate forces, or her allies forces.

OOC: Damn you saint sabbat! I didn't know you had any commissariats!!
*shakes fist* man i love that word!

IC:
We will not attack the Zoogie People unless they attack us.

To all West Pacific citizens in Hallad, Hattia, and the Zoogie People

Prepare for evacuation. Move to West Pacific embassy (Zoogie People)or nearest ally embassy. Evacuations will take place in 4 hours. 350 Maines will be sent in to protect the embassy in the Zoogie People should rioting and violence break out in that country. Any attack on the West Pacific embassy, accidental or not, will be considered an act of war.

This is a tragic day for the world, as the warmongering fascist regime in Shildonia has chosen war. The PCR is not surprised, for a fascist nation like Shildonia can only define it self by militarism and terror. We will not stand there and watch these nazis to massacre more citizens of Hallad. The 7th, 13th and 666th fleet are in this moment heading towards Shildonia for a big manoeuvre with several of our allies. The 4th and 5th bomber fleet are now up in the skies heading for an unknown direction. There don?t has to be war. But if Shildonia attacks they will pay.

PEACE!

The True Directorate demands the Shildonian planes leaves Halladi air space immediatly, or they will be shot down.

Many of our forces have been mobilized, though we are not disclosing which.

If you actually bothered to read any of my posts you will know that they aren't in your airspace. You seem to have a tendency to not read posts properly.
Also, you don't know what was dropped out of those Vulcans, so you should probably get your minesweepers out there to find out. That's assuming you actually have minesweepers and haven't just spent all your money buying shed-loads of Migs and tanks, with no way of actually moving them overseas.

----

Operation Guillotine
The four CloudRakers are now undergoing final preparations for launch, each carries five 2.5lb depleted uranium shells for use against Halladian satallites in Low Earth Orbit, with priority being given to satallites whose orbit takes them over Shildonia most regularly. They each also carry two missiles which use a Hohmann transfer to attack satallites in higher orbits. Priority targets are GPS satallites if you've got them, or communications satallites.
Six Vulcans carrying 24 SHOC hypersonic stand off missiles each have been sent to attack port facilities from 500 miles off the coast. If there are any military vessels in the ports they will be hit, as well as any fuel refineries located near the coast. A further two Vulcans have been configured as aerial aircraft carriers, carrying 12 Ferret UAVs each. These will be sent inland to search for radar sites that may interfere with the final aspect of the plan.
The radar sites located by the Ferrets will be attacked by Tacit Rainbow anti-radar missiles from a range of 50miles. These will be launched by Vampire-class stealth bombers flying at low altitude to further enhance their stealth capabilities.
Following behind the Vampires are formations of Venona class supersonic bombers. Altogether there are 40 of them split into groups to attack the various military airfields. Each Venona is carrying 20 SHOCs targetted at HAS (Hardened Aircraft Shelters), POL (Petroleum, Oil, Lubricant) dumps and the runways. The SHOC can penetrate up to 40ft of concrete, so they should make nice big craters in the runways.

----

Official Press Statement, Shildonian Defence Ministry, for release after first wave of attacks in Operation Guillotine

Aircraft from the Shildonian Flying Corps. have taken part in preemptive night-time strikes to prevent Hallad from carrying out their threats of war unless money is paid to them.
For reasons of operational security, there will be no discussion of the types or numbers of aircraft involved. Suffice to say, there are plenty more aircraft available to carry out additional raids should the Halladians not back down.
The People's Republic will not negotiate with terrorists, and we will do everything possible to ensure the terrorists do not seek to threaten others.


Crosshill - just remember I have a full screen set up 300miles from my coast which means your aircraft and ships can easily be detected and intercepted.

Let the actions of Shildonia speak for themselves: they are the warmongers here. We urge them to back down, admit their guilt, and pay the reparations to Hallad.

All those who would back Shildonia in this engagement: Note their national motto: "Peace Through Tyranny". Do you really want to side with a nation like this?

The True Directorate demands the Shildonian planes leaves Halladi air space immediatly, or they will be shot down.

Many of our forces have been mobilized, though we are not disclosing which.

If you actually bothered to read any of my posts you will know that they aren't in your airspace. You seem to have a tendency to not read posts properly.
Also, you don't know what was dropped out of those Vulcans, so you should probably get your minesweepers out there to find out. That's assuming you actually have minesweepers and haven't just spent all your money buying shed-loads of Migs and tanks, with no way of actually moving them overseas.

----

Operation Guillotine
The four CloudRakers are now undergoing final preparations for launch, each carries five 2.5lb depleted uranium shells for use against Halladian satallites in Low Earth Orbit, with priority being given to satallites whose orbit takes them over Shildonia most regularly. They each also carry two missiles which use a Hohmann transfer to attack satallites in higher orbits. Priority targets are GPS satallites if you've got them, or communications satallites.
Six Vulcans carrying 24 SHOC hypersonic stand off missiles each have been sent to attack port facilities from 500 miles off the coast. If there are any military vessels in the ports they will be hit, as well as any fuel refineries located near the coast. A further two Vulcans have been configured as aerial aircraft carriers, carrying 12 Ferret UAVs each. These will be sent inland to search for radar sites that may interfere with the final aspect of the plan.
The radar sites located by the Ferrets will be attacked by Tacit Rainbow anti-radar missiles from a range of 50miles. These will be launched by Vampire-class stealth bombers flying at low altitude to further enhance their stealth capabilities.
Following behind the Vampires are formations of Venona class supersonic bombers. Altogether there are 40 of them split into groups to attack the various military airfields. Each Venona is carrying 20 SHOCs targetted at HAS (Hardened Aircraft Shelters), POL (Petroleum, Oil, Lubricant) dumps and the runways. The SHOC can penetrate up to 40ft of concrete, so they should make nice big craters in the runways.

----

Official Press Statement, Shildonian Defence Ministry, for release after first wave of attacks in Operation Guillotine

Aircraft from the Shildonian Flying Corps. have taken part in preemptive night-time strikes to prevent Hallad from carrying out their threats of war unless money is paid to them.
For reasons of operational security, there will be no discussion of the types or numbers of aircraft involved. Suffice to say, there are plenty more aircraft available to carry out additional raids should the Halladians not back down.
The People's Republic will not negotiate with terrorists, and we will do everything possible to ensure the terrorists do not seek to threaten others.


Crosshill - just remember I have a full screen set up 300miles from my coast which means your aircraft and ships can easily be detected and intercepted.

OOC: Non of my vessels is hiding (ecxept the submairines :D)
And only the stealth bomber and fighter and the orbital weapons are not on your screen. I'll wait and have a look on your RP abilites befor I strike. So far it seems to become interesting. :twisted: Well, the fleets come closer now and the planes will soon enter your air space. But that is all for now.

Secret IC to Hallad
[code:1:3894909057]
Greetings Comrades, we request permission to deploy our elite 144th Air attack wing along with the 74th Engineering Division (To make sure the airfields are repaired.) in your nation to help defend your skies. They will tear any bombers they find to shreads. We would also like to send the 7th Fleet commanded by Admiral Alexandrov to your waters.
[/code:1:3894909057]

Official statement from the People's Congress

If nuclear weapons are used by either side. They WILL be destroyed...

Iuthia is willing to support this in the very least.

Otherwise I'm completely neutral... screw it, I don't care anymore.

OOC: Em, we don't have any satallites...

Secret Transmission to Hattia
[code:1:3ed17fe6f3]
Any and all of that is welcomed in Hallad. Though we regret to inform you that during the preemptive strike against Hallad's ports several Hattia merchant ships were destroyed by missiles. [/code:1:3ed17fe6f3]


The missiles hit, smashing into cruiseships, and other civilian boats. Most hit the ports, which was full of civilian workers. The explosions egnited furl tanks and huge billow of smoke flew into the air, while on the ground fire erupted everywhere. the ground shook like an earthquake, causing a skyscraper to crumble to the ground, full of office employees. Two destroyers were anhilated in the frenzy. The scene was repeated in two other cities.

Five Radar sites were destroyed during the night.

Statement from the True Directorate:

This attack against the PEOPLE of Hallad will not stand! The attacks by Shildonia left 1,562 dead or missing civilians and 7 wounded Civilians! This act of war will NOT be ignored. The region of Soviet Utopia was voted to go to war. Shildonia will pay for what it has done.

Meanwhile

Halladi men had been flown to the Halladi Island States and Saint Sabbat earlier where they were now boarding Millitary transports. Each group is being escorted by Five Cristius Class battleships, ten mine sweepers, and 1 essex class aircraft carrier.

the forces assembled are:

The Halladi Honour Guard (1st infantry battalion):
- 5,000 Men
- Main wepaon: AK-74 assualt rifle
- 100 M224 mortars
- 50 M119A1 TOWs
- 250 TOW2 launchers
- 200 Panzerfaust 3 Anti-Tank Guns
- 500 PK General-Purpose Machine Guns
- 200 T-90 MBT's
- 100 Humvee's armed with TOW Launchers
- 25 JBT-5 scout tanks

The 4th Armoured Division:
- 5000 Infantry
- 50 Bradley IFVs
- 400 T-90 MBTs
- 300 T-80 MBTs
- 200 Dingo APCs
- 50 JBT-5 scout tanks
- 300 Deserter MBTs
- Main Infantry Weapon: AK-74 assualt rifle
- 200 Panzerfaust 3 Anti-Tank Gun
- 300 TOW2 Launchers
- 50 M224 mortars
- 300 Stinger Missle launchers
- 300 PK General-Purpose Machine Gun

1st Naval Group:
- 2 Ohio Class submarine
- 1 Nemesis Class CGN Nuclear Guided Missile Cruiser
- 5 Xeraph Class ASW Destroyer
- 1 Wraith Class SSN Nuclear Submarine

Official statement from the People's Congress

If nuclear weapons are used by either side. They WILL be destroyed...

OOC: I've missed a few days on this thread an am utterly confused. Catch me up a bit ok?

The Zoogie People completely supports this statement by Hattia, which has been backed...to a certain extent....by Iuthia. Any nuclear weapons fired by any side will be shot down by ABM systems from both The Zoogie People and Hattia, and perhaps Iuthia (we can't tell, as Iuthia said, "Screw it, I don't care about this anymore.")

The Zoogie People also inquires what the hell happened to diplomacy, and where did it go? It will support Shildonia if it is unjustly invaded; however if it made the pre-emptive strike that is another matter entirely; the decision to support/ be neutral will have to be voted on.

Now let's see...

Thank you, West Pacific, for your continuing support. Saint Sabbat, I warn you, we attack Hallad's forces only if they unjustly invade an ally. We attack in defense of an ally; in essence, we attack not their nation, but defend a nation close to us.

Hallad, we will not attack you; although we may have to mobilize against an invasion force. I'm confused right now, so ... just know this...in response to all the conditionals, we would like to add this: The Zoogie People will attack no other's nation unless its own is attacked.

Crosshill, we kindly suggest you get your facts straight. So far as we know, Shildonia supported oppresed rebels in Hallad based on the fact that they were oppressed, not on their political standing. HALLAD chose war. HALLAD stated War on Shildonia. This thread is not called War on Shildonia for nothing! It is not Shildonia's thread proclaiming, "War on Hallad."

Shildonia, we're not too happy with your pre-emptive strike; but then, we're not at all caught up on what's happened prior...

In conclusion, all, we are royally confused, and though we have a fleet near Shildonian waters, we shall do nothing for the present. If attacked, though, by any nation, that fleet will defend itself savagely.

Damnit... I'll pay half if you guys are going to go to war over 20 Million dollars, it's a crap reason to go to war and it's not hard to pay.

Yeah; I've already supplied 20 million to help his people, and will do more if need be, all you have to do is ask. But demanding, there's got to be an ulterior motive there. 20 million is not what Hallad needs. He needs 20 million from Shildonia which is quite a bit of a difference.

Damnit... I'll pay half if you guys are going to go to war over 20 Million dollars, it's a crap reason to go to war and it's not hard to pay.

Yeah; I've already supplied 20 million to help his people, and will do more if need be, all you have to do is ask. But demanding, there's got to be an ulterior motive there. 20 million is not what Hallad needs. He needs 20 million from Shildonia which is quite a bit of a difference.

Crosshill, we kindly suggest you get your facts straight. So far as we know, Shildonia supported oppresed rebels in Hallad based on the fact that they were oppressed, not on their political standing. HALLAD chose war. HALLAD stated War on Shildonia. This thread is not called War on Shildonia for nothing! It is not Shildonia's thread proclaiming, "War on Hallad."

Oppressing nazis is as much a crime as the oppression of rapists is. I am sure that the prisons in Hallad are filled with rapists if Shildonia would attack Hallad to liberate them would you support them? The oppression of killers is the duty of every government. Fascism is not an opinion it is a crime! The terror regime in Shildonia will fall. If you side with the nazis your fate is sealed. We don?t want to go to war with your nation but if you attack our troops or our civilians we will defend our selves. You have been warned.

OOC: Non of my vessels is hiding (ecxept the submairines :D)
And only the stealth bomber and fighter and the orbital weapons are not on your screen. I'll wait and have a look on your RP abilites befor I strike. So far it seems to become interesting. :twisted: Well, the fleets come closer now and the planes will soon enter your air space. But that is all for now.

Press Release

The Free Lands of Zoogiedom hereby declares herself Neutral to Hallad forces advancing on Shildonia. We have not enough conclusive evidence to fully support Shildonia, who in all probability will be able to defeat the forces on her own*.

However, Zoogiedom has issued a question to the nation Crosshill. We have heard from your nation that you support peace. However, your declaration of the warmongering facist regime in Shildonia is something we do not agree with at all. Shildonia has NOT used terror! To suggest that a LoD Protector is a terrorist nation is simply preposterous. And your peaceful nation sending bombing fleets against Shildonia at this moment is unacceptable. Forward to us a telegram explaining your actions and where you are coming from. For Zoogiedom has a naval fleet, and your blatantly obvious bomber fleets will be escorted and turned around - if they don't comply, they will be shot down....unless you explain yourselves.

OOC: Non of my vessels is hiding (ecxept the submairines :D)
And only the stealth bomber and fighter and the orbital weapons are not on your screen. I'll wait and have a look on your RP abilites befor I strike. So far it seems to become interesting. :twisted: Well, the fleets come closer now and the planes will soon enter your air space. But that is all for now.

Press Release

The Free Lands of Zoogiedom hereby declares herself Neutral to Hallad forces advancing on Shildonia. We have not enough conclusive evidence to fully support Shildonia, who in all probability will be able to defeat the forces on her own*.

However, Zoogiedom has issued a question to the nation Crosshill. We have heard from your nation that you support peace. However, your declaration of the warmongering facist regime in Shildonia is something we do not agree with at all. Shildonia has NOT used terror! To suggest that a LoD Protector is a terrorist nation is simply preposterous. And your peaceful nation sending bombing fleets against Shildonia at this moment is unacceptable. Forward to us a telegram explaining your actions and where you are coming from. For Zoogiedom has a naval fleet, and your blatantly obvious bomber fleets will be escorted and turned around - if they don't comply, they will be shot down....unless you explain yourselves.

Crosshill, we kindly suggest you get your facts straight. So far as we know, Shildonia supported oppresed rebels in Hallad based on the fact that they were oppressed, not on their political standing. HALLAD chose war. HALLAD stated War on Shildonia. This thread is not called War on Shildonia for nothing! It is not Shildonia's thread proclaiming, "War on Hallad."

Oppressing nazis is as much a crime as the oppression of rapists is. I am sure that the prisons in Hallad are filled with rapists if Shildonia would attack Hallad to liberate them would you support them? The oppression of killers is the duty of every government. Fascism is not an opinion it is a crime! The terror regime in Shildonia will fall. If you side with the nazis your fate is sealed. We don?t want to go to war with your nation but if you attack our troops or our civilians we will defend our selves. You have been warned.

In response to Crosshill, Zoogiedom knows little of the circumstances of the civil war. Oppressing Nazis is quite different from oppressing rapists, and I wouldn't oppress Nazis unless they rebelled...which they did, I assume? Our knowledge of the actual civil war is quite limited, so I will wait for Shildonia to respond. I do not know if the Nazis killed anyone prior to being oppressed. Facism is a political ideal - we do not agree with it, but believing in Facism is in our opinion not a crime. It's incorrect, true, but it isn't a crime. Government is not there to persecute those who don't agree with them. Those who attempt to undermine the government, on the other hand...

Terror in Shildonia? We laugh at those words...we laugh not at you, but at the suggestion that Shildonia is composed of terrorists.

I side not with Nazis. Nor do I side with communism. I side against unnecessary aggression, which your nation seems to be doing.

We wish not to go with war against your nation, but your bomber fleets could be carrying god-knows-what. Two bomber fleets! Targeting whatever you please? Shildonia is an ally, we remind you. We target not your people, but we will not stand by idly and watch an ally being bombed.



We have received word from our ally Penguisiana that a fleet is being deployed to Shildonia. The fleet's composition, size, and ETA is all unknown...however, as our allies they are standing by us.

1. Why are there so many civillians working at night? Admittedly there would have been some people working night shifts (mainly caretakers and the like) but not office blocks full of them (unless that's all just propaganda)
2. What about the attacks on the airfields? I'm getting sick to death of people thinking a damage report consists of "x dead, y injured". If all I was bothered about was killing people I would have just carpet bombed a load of cities. The objective of the attack was to cripple your airforce, so you should really say how many aircraft were destroyed (presumably most of them unless they were airbourne at the time, which seems unlikely since they didn't try to intercept anything), and more importantly - are the runways operational? (40 foot deep craters will probably keep them closed for quite a while)
3. Essex class as in the WW2 Essex class? Are they even capable of operating modern aircraft?

----

Nimrod maritime reconnaisance aircraft have been sent to observe the Halladian fleets from a safe distance. If any satallites are passing over any of the Shildonian Flying Corps. dispersal airfields, they may be able to see aircraft being prepped for maritime strike missions.

----

To: True Directorate
From: Shildonian Office for Foreign Affairs

Hopefully your serfs appreciated last nights little airshow. Our assets have detected your boats going to sea. If they turn back immediately we may be willing to overlook this little misunderstanding. If they do not, then you will have an awful lot of letters to write to the parents of the victims of your misguided adventure.

The Zoogie People completely supports this statement by Hattia, which has been backed...to a certain extent....by Iuthia. Any nuclear weapons fired by any side will be shot down by ABM systems from both The Zoogie People and Hattia, and perhaps Iuthia (we can't tell, as Iuthia said, "Screw it, I don't care about this anymore.")

Well, we've got to the point where both nations are particularly liked by Iuthia... but not really disliked either.

Shildonia is a nation I've argued with before because they were willing to go to war over some lost revenue.

Meanwhile Hallad is part of an alliance of communist nations which is led by Communist Louisiana who has lost most of my respect due to the way in which they conduct their affairs as well as their poor grasp on diplomacy.

So overall the only reason I'm slightly interested is because Hattia is involved, who is a good ally of mine. I'm willing to help Hattia in whatever they have planned should someone us nuclear weapons...

But otherwise I couldn't really care... I'm not going to convince them to calm down because they (mostly Shildonia) don't want to calm down.

So I'm not getting involved. It's easier that way.

Fascism does not start with gas chambers. But that is necessarily where it ends. If I understand you correctly it is a political idea to gas millions of people? Fascism is an ideology based on physical force. That makes it easy to understand what you makes you support the slaughter of more than thousand Halladian civilians. Shildonia as a supporter of fascism is an enemy of all people in the world. They will pay for the murders they have committed in Hallad no matter what it takes. As for our fleets and bomber fleets. YES they carry whatever the people of Crosshill seems to be necessary to defend our nation. Right now they are in a manoeuvre just outside the waters of Shildonia. In international waters. There is nothing we would regret more than killing a single one of your soldiers. We have great respect for your nation, but your pseudo liberal politics which led to Munich disaster, Franco's reign of Terror in Spain and ultimately the seconded World War and the holocaust. If you attack the People's Liberation Navy or any of our citizens we will use minimal force against your troops but we will defend our selves as we have stated before.

To: Shildonian Office for Foreign Affairs
From: The True Directorate
In the words of one of our national Hero's "Spit on it!"

***

1) becuase they're building ships at the port.

2)200 MIG-33's destroyed, 300 Mig 29's, 150 f-14's

(most other planes are on the carriers)

3) I pretty sure they can (99%)

***

Frankly this fascist/nazi group rebelled because thier political party lost the elections here.

Facism is not entirely synonomous to Adolph Hitler. Adolph Hitler was not the only Facist. His Holocaust was one of the greatest tragedies in the world, but most of it wasn't based on the ideals of Facism, they were rooted in his deep racism. Facism is the ideal that all legislative power in the government lies in the hands of one person...

Let us make this clear: We are Anti-Facism. We are against dictatorships. We do not support Facism.

I did not support the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Halladian civilians. Civilian casualties are a side effect of war - never have I seen yet conclusive evidence that Shildonia actually slaughtered civilians purposefully. Name me one war in the history of the real modern (ala gun age) world in which not one civilian casualty was suffered.

I could care less what geographical position your bombers are in. They are fully armed military aircraft with complete hostile intent against an ally.

For you to suggest our pseudo-liberal politics led to the rise of Facism in Europe, we take as an insult. We stand for peace, and we are liberal...we respect your nation's stand on anti-facism...but we refuse to believe that Shildonia is a terrorist, facist country.

Facism is not entirely synonomous to Adolph Hitler. Adolph Hitler was not the only Facist. His Holocaust was one of the greatest tragedies in the world, but most of it wasn't based on the ideals of Facism, they were rooted in his deep racism. Facism is the ideal that all legislative power in the government lies in the hands of one person...

Let us make this clear: We are Anti-Facism. We are against dictatorships. We do not support Facism.

I did not support the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Halladian civilians. Civilian casualties are a side effect of war - never have I seen yet conclusive evidence that Shildonia actually slaughtered civilians purposefully. Name me one war in the history of the real modern (ala gun age) world in which not one civilian casualty was suffered.

I could care less what geographical position your bombers are in. They are fully armed military aircraft with complete hostile intent against an ally.

For you to suggest our pseudo-liberal politics led to the rise of Facism in Europe, we take as an insult. We stand for peace, and we are liberal...we respect your nation's stand on anti-facism...but we refuse to believe that Shildonia is a terrorist, facist country.

Facism is not entirely synonomous to Adolph Hitler. Adolph Hitler was not the only Facist. His Holocaust was one of the greatest tragedies in the world, but most of it wasn't based on the ideals of Facism, they were rooted in his deep racism. Facism is the ideal that all legislative power in the government lies in the hands of one person...

Let us make this clear: We are Anti-Facism. We are against dictatorships. We do not support Facism.

I did not support the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Halladian civilians. Civilian casualties are a side effect of war - never have I seen yet conclusive evidence that Shildonia actually slaughtered civilians purposefully. Name me one war in the history of the real modern (ala gun age) world in which not one civilian casualty was suffered.

I could care less what geographical position your bombers are in. They are fully armed military aircraft with complete hostile intent against an ally.

For you to suggest our pseudo-liberal politics led to the rise of Facism in Europe, we take as an insult. We stand for peace, and we are liberal...we respect your nation's stand on anti-facism...but we refuse to believe that Shildonia is a terrorist, facist country.

Facism is not entirely synonomous to Adolph Hitler. Adolph Hitler was not the only Facist. His Holocaust was one of the greatest tragedies in the world, but most of it wasn't based on the ideals of Facism, they were rooted in his deep racism. Facism is the ideal that all legislative power in the government lies in the hands of one person...

Let us make this clear: We are Anti-Facism. We are against dictatorships. We do not support Facism.

I did not support the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Halladian civilians. Civilian casualties are a side effect of war - never have I seen yet conclusive evidence that Shildonia actually slaughtered civilians purposefully. Name me one war in the history of the real modern (ala gun age) world in which not one civilian casualty was suffered.

I could care less what geographical position your bombers are in. They are fully armed military aircraft with complete hostile intent against an ally.

For you to suggest our pseudo-liberal politics led to the rise of Facism in Europe, we take as an insult. We stand for peace, and we are liberal...we respect your nation's stand on anti-facism...but we refuse to believe that Shildonia is a terrorist, facist country.

At the end of their eight hour patrol, the Nimrods obeserving the Halladian fleets each is relieved by a new Nimrod (two on each fleet). However, these new Nimrods are not alone...

Escorting each pair of Nimrods are six F-52s and an E-3 Sentry. Their reputation alone will doubtless act as a deterrent against any overly curious pilots from the carriers, but they are each carrying their usual compliment of 54 Phoenix air-to-air missiles each just in case.
Leading the assault at an altitude of 250 feet are four Vampire-class stealth bombers. Their role in the attack is to eliminate enemy radar using 10 Krpyton anti-radar missiles each. Hopefully their high speed of mach 4.5 will help them to break through any defence systems.
Following behind the Vampires is the main attack wave. This consists of ten Vulcans each carrying five Sunburn anti-ship missiles and flying at just 175 feet. These will be launched from a range of 65miles using data from the Nimrods to enable the missiles to be launched without activating the Vulcans radar, and so betraying their position.

Mussolini was a facist also...

Official Statement from the Commisar of the Congress

Look who has shown the true aggression. Hallad's consisted of words, but Shildonia's was of arms. Our nation laments the deaths of our merchantmen and women and Hallad's civilians. We demand that Shildonia stand down immediately. They have 24 hours to stand down. The nation cries for the blood of Shildonia's government, and as servants of the people, we will have no choice. Our military forces are on DEFCON 3, our fleets are mobilized. The hammer is closing in on the anvil, and Shildonia is in the middle. You will stand down or your government will not be spared.

Our terms are:

1. Reduction in Shildonia's Military by 25% for 15 years.
2. Damages payed to the families of those killed in Shildonia's attack and to the government of Hallad amounting to 1 billion USD.
3. Shildonia submits to periodic inspections of it's military by Hattia and Hallad for 15 years.
4. Those who ordered this attack turned over to the government of Hallad.

OOC - 54 Phoenix missiles?

Zoogie International News

4th CBG Leaves Shildonian Waters
In a surprising move today, the Zoogie People's fourth carrier battle group left Shildonian waters today to be redeployed on active duty in another undisclosed location.

The reasoning for the redeployment is uncertain, but Minister of Defense Brian Dredon had this to offer to reporters: "The Zoogie People has faced in the past many problems of overextension of military. There is another situation that demands the use of our navy, and we are already engaged in a military combat theatre in Isla de Palata...a third fleet can not be deployed to this dire situation without running into debt and overextending oursevles. Further, Shildonia appears to be able to defend from any Halladian invasion, and Penguisiana will deploy a fleet to help keep the peace."

Sources indicate that the situation has also gotten so tangled that intelligence cannot firmly differentiate between the stories of either side and the information has so many gaps it could not possible to make a firm declaration resposibly. Shildonia is the Zoogie People's ally, however, and is still its ally...

Facist coup d'etat in Hogsweat

A facist group has attempted a coup de'tat in Hogsweat late yesterday night; word of success has not yet been known.

Hogsweat is a common ally of Tiboritia and The Zoogie People, and this Facist coup is regarded as a very danger situation. President William Ciel has condemned the coup and is awaiting word of its success or failure.

The situation will be monitored closely by ZIN.

God, that took like over half an hour to type and then send through...most of it was trying to send through...hope it's not a triple post.

OOC - 54 Phoenix missiles?

Zoogie International News

4th CBG Leaves Shildonian Waters
In a surprising move today, the Zoogie People's fourth carrier battle group left Shildonian waters today to be redeployed on active duty in another undisclosed location.

The reasoning for the redeployment is uncertain, but Minister of Defense Brian Dredon had this to offer to reporters: "The Zoogie People has faced in the past many problems of overextension of military. There is another situation that demands the use of our navy, and we are already engaged in a military combat theatre in Isla de Palata...a third fleet can not be deployed to this dire situation without running into debt and overextending oursevles. Further, Shildonia appears to be able to defend from any Halladian invasion, and Penguisiana will deploy a fleet to help keep the peace."

Sources indicate that the situation has also gotten so tangled that intelligence cannot firmly differentiate between the stories of either side and the information has so many gaps it could not possible to make a firm declaration resposibly. Shildonia is the Zoogie People's ally, however, and is still its ally...

Facist coup d'etat in Hogsweat

A facist group has attempted a coup de'tat in Hogsweat late yesterday night; word of success has not yet been known.

Hogsweat is a common ally of Tiboritia and The Zoogie People, and this Facist coup is regarded as a very danger situation. President William Ciel has condemned the coup and is awaiting word of its success or failure.

The situation will be monitored closely by ZIN.

God, that took like over half an hour to type and then send through...most of it was trying to send through...hope it's not a triple post.


EDIT : (Important!)

Firstly, I would like to take a few seconds to scream at the server for taking roughly 25 minutes to finally get this through...(or was it my computer/ISP?)

Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Second, I would like to say I had not seen Hattia's post and this is in no way in response...I had similar trouble posting to the Hogsweat thread, but plans to send the fleet to Hogsweat were made without knowledge of Hattian involvement.

And Finally, I would like to make the observation that the terms are so harsh that Shildonia's land will resemble hell before he submits to them. There is no way he is going to accept that.

At the end of their eight hour patrol, the Nimrods obeserving the Halladian fleets each is relieved by a new Nimrod (two on each fleet). However, these new Nimrods are not alone...

Escorting each pair of Nimrods are six F-52s and an E-3 Sentry. Their reputation alone will doubtless act as a deterrent against any overly curious pilots from the carriers, but they are each carrying their usual compliment of 54 Phoenix air-to-air missiles each just in case.
Leading the assault at an altitude of 250 feet are four Vampire-class stealth bombers. Their role in the attack is to eliminate enemy radar using 10 Krpyton anti-radar missiles each. Hopefully their high speed of mach 4.5 will help them to break through any defence systems.
Following behind the Vampires is the main attack wave. This consists of ten Vulcans each carrying five Sunburn anti-ship missiles and flying at just 175 feet. These will be launched from a range of 65miles using data from the Nimrods to enable the missiles to be launched without activating the Vulcans radar, and so betraying their position.

The Halladi Fleet went on high alert, dozens of MIG-33's took off, in order to catch the enemy head on. Each of the Migs carried four R-77 (AA-12) Air-t0-Air Missiles, and two Kh-35 (AS-17) Surface-to-Air Missiles.

The PRC supports the Zoogie point of view that there is no war without civilian causalities. The people of Crosshill value a Shildonian life as much as a Halladian. But we will also use this opportunity to point our that there has never been a fascist regime without genocide. Be it Hitler, Franco, Pinochet or the current dictator of Colombia Uribe. Fascism is just an other word for terror. As a matter of fact, this discussion however is leading nowhere. The PRC also gives an official apology to the Zoogie People for insulting them in front of the global community. Our bombers return to the PRC to repeat the manoeuvre, while some of our planes remain airborne and our satellites are on full alert. Our fleets will remain in international waters just outside Shildonia, and they will be reinforces. Now go and find a peaceful solution for this.

OOC: The terrorist attack in Spain makes me so sick of war and killing that I don?t even want to kill virtual people.

OOC : Same here.

Iek Dakingrader (The Dakingrad-er):

TRANSLATION code: Eng02


Today, citadel officials are reported to be in talks as to an exact course of action. The emperor had this to say "We will support our comrades Hallad and Hattia, and we will, with the permission of Hallad, land troops to aid the Defensive front". The emperor then sent us away and closed to door to the Council Chambers. look in tomarrows issue for more updates on the Halladian situation.

From the Office of the Military Advisor to the NNA

****New orders for the NNA Army****

All NNA forces involved in this conflice have been withdrawn.

End of Message

2 Nimitz CVN's (92 F-22's each)
uh... a Nimitz maxes out at 85 aircraft per carrier. What about electronic warfare? What about anti-submarine warfare? What about airborne radar? What about re-fueling? What about search and rescue?

oh yeah... and I'm scratching my head on the carrier based F-22's.

Actually, I believe it is because of Shildonia's pre emptive strike that this is happening. And I at least never had any intentions of attacking Zoogie People. My quarrel is with Shildonia only.

OOC - 54 Phoenix missiles?

Im glad someone else noticed that. How big are those aircraft, Shildonia? 747 sized? Cut it down to 4 each and its feasible...Phoenix missiles are pretty damn big.

IC:

The heavily modified Kirov cruiser Masamune, pride of the Kanabian fleet, and several smaller escort vessels, departed port today towards seas off the coast of Shildonia. Long Range Bomber and Interceptor squadrons have been placed on alert, along with several in-flight refuelling tankers. The carrier, Orca II, with its complement of K-32 and K-35 aircraft (see http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=124149) is preparing to likewise leave port. Submarines are already positioned in the area. Training excercises in the army have been stepped up. However, no declaration of war has been announced as yet.

OOC: Ooh, i just realised that The Zoogie People uses my K-32 and K-35 aircraft, lol

OOC - 54 Phoenix missiles?

Im glad someone else noticed that. How big are those aircraft, Shildonia? 747 sized? Cut it down to 4 each and its feasible...Phoenix missiles are pretty damn big.


This isn't some dinky little F-15 type thing. It is called the F-52 for a reason. I am getting sick of people claiming the idea of reconfiguring a B-52 to carry air-to-air missiles is somehow impossible. I made a thread saying the aircraft had been developed, I even had to explain how it was possible in the other thread of because of people not grasping the significance of it being -52.
If you want to complain about how unfeasible it is you should have done so in the thread where I declared they had been built.
Technically it should probably be called the P-52, but that makes it seem like a direct sucesser to the P-51 Mustang.

uh... a Nimitz maxes out at 85 aircraft per carrier. What about electronic warfare? What about anti-submarine warfare? What about airborne radar? What about re-fueling? What about search and rescue?

oh yeah... and I'm scratching my head on the carrier based F-22's.

OOC: I think each of mine have like 45 fighters mixed between the F16 and the F18, the rest is electronic warfare, logistics, early detection and anti-sub...

OOC: CL has gone to Cuba (like he said) and has given me control of parts of his millitary (just so you know.) Dakara, Kanabia, and Hattia can back me on that.

IC:

To Dakara

A defense force would be welcomed in Hallad.

***

Another fleet which had taken off from CL a few days ago had arrived in the battle. Five Los Angeles Class Submarine's began firing at Shildonian Ships, while Migs took off from an Infusion Class Carrier. In the back of the fleet were three Tidal class Battleship's.

This is an OOC post:

OOC - 54 Phoenix missiles?

Im glad someone else noticed that. How big are those aircraft, Shildonia? 747 sized? Cut it down to 4 each and its feasible...Phoenix missiles are pretty damn big.


This isn't some dinky little F-15 type thing. It is called the F-52 for a reason. I am getting sick of people claiming the idea of reconfiguring a B-52 to carry air-to-air missiles is somehow impossible. I made a thread saying the aircraft had been developed, I even had to explain how it was possible in the other thread of because of people not grasping the significance of it being -52.
If you want to complain about how unfeasible it is you should have done so in the thread where I declared they had been built.
Technically it should probably be called the P-52, but that makes it seem like a direct sucesser to the P-51 Mustang.

Now, as a non-involved nation and viewer-only, I would like to comment from now on if I may. I always thought of big aircraft for air-air combat, but only one thing always bugged me about it: shouldn't they carry anti-missile defenses? And I don't mean flares and chaff, how could that huge plane escape of four long-ranged missiles fired to it at the same time without destroying them somehow? This is by no means to be taken into account in the RPing of this war, it is a RL comment.

I hope you find a solution to the problem (realistically) so I can use them too.

In the dead of night, using transports borrowed from Communist rule (yes he gave me permission), and some other small boats drop off the 1st and 2nd legion of dakara, consisting of 2.5 million troops on Halladian shores, and immediately sought to organize themselves into the existing defence structure.

OOC - 54 Phoenix missiles?

Im glad someone else noticed that. How big are those aircraft, Shildonia? 747 sized? Cut it down to 4 each and its feasible...Phoenix missiles are pretty damn big.


This isn't some dinky little F-15 type thing. It is called the F-52 for a reason. I am getting sick of people claiming the idea of reconfiguring a B-52 to carry air-to-air missiles is somehow impossible. I made a thread saying the aircraft had been developed, I even had to explain how it was possible in the other thread of because of people not grasping the significance of it being -52.
If you want to complain about how unfeasible it is you should have done so in the thread where I declared they had been built.
Technically it should probably be called the P-52, but that makes it seem like a direct sucesser to the P-51 Mustang.

No, no, that's not what bothers me. What bothers me is that with fifty-four Phoenix missiles, your aircraft have got to be so large that once they get within 20-30 miles of the enemy, they're, well...useless...

I can vouch for CL giving Hallad his stuff temporarily.

Dakara: I assume you landed your forces at a port, right?

I can vouch for CL giving Hallad his stuff temporarily.

Dakara: I assume you landed your forces at a port, right?

yes... but as i do not have a map of hallad with them marked, i cannot tell you which one.

'Broadcast to all involved parties'

Being a young and struggling nation, we could benefit from an influx of monetary means. Therefore, while lacking the resources to provide large scale military support, the Calladian government is willing to provide an elite unit of 10,000 highly trained saboteurs for... special operations. Against the right price ofcourse.

The Calladian government would however like to make clear that we do not support either party politically or ideologically. We are simply offering our services to whichever party offers us the most... beneficial agreement.

'End of broadcast'

1. Wait for me to respond to your initial counter attack before making more attacks. Also try to be more precise. Dozens can mean anything from 24 upwards.
2. CL doesn't exist, as such neither does his military. Even if he hadn't been ignored for repeated flaming, then I still wouldn't accept you using his units. My stance on this has always been that if an individual is unable or unwilling to RP his own units then said units cannot be used.
3. Dakara: you can't just deploy 2.5million troops in one go. Logistically it is impossible, and it is even harder given that most, if not all, of Hallads ports are pretty much destroyed. Also, where are they going to live? Are you going to create some kind of shanty town (which would make disease rampant, not mention be a fire hazzard should any bombs be dropped on it. And there will be bombs dropped on it)

----

More F-52 related Q&As (If there's going to be lots of OOC remarks I'll set up a new thread for them so this one doesn't get too cluttered)

Up close it will be destroyed quite easily. However, getting up close is difficult, and since they always operate in groups of 4+ they can operate a kind of volley fire system. Two fire missiles while the other two retreat, and so on. The enemy has to take evasive manouvers to avoid the missiles and will therefore lose radar lock, since most long range missiles are only actively guided for the last 12miles or so. Essentially it turns into a game of chicken, but a larger aircraft can sustain much more damage than a smaller one.
There is also the fact that for the missions it does (usually long range escort missions) there is simply no alternative. I know for a fact I wouldn't like to be sat inside a cramped cockpit for 12hours plus, and if a pilot had to he would most likely begin to lose concentration. A larger aircraft allows the crew to stretch their legs, even go to sleep.
As for Barlioche's question, I've sort of answered it above (the game of chicken bit), but I suppose one must account for pilots who don't care about dying (religous fanatics etc). For that reason a research program will be set into place to develop some kind of light weight CIWS system.
Another defence against enemy aircraft getting to close would be to have fighter escorts, though this would only be an effective solution close to friendly bases

----

News of the aircraft launches is relayed to the Vulcans from the E-3. The Vulcans begin deploying towed decoys out from beneath their tails. These decoys are designed to have a much larger radar cross section and IR signature than that the Vulcans themselves, the idea being to present a more favourable target. Jamming gear on the bombers is also activated in an attempt to overpower the enemies radar and prevent them getting a lock.
Four of the F-52s move towards the Mig-33s and fire a Phoenix at each of them, the other two remain with the Nimrods and the E-3s.

'Broadcast to all involved parties'

Being a young and struggling nation, we could benefit from an influx of monetary means. Therefore, while lacking the resources to provide large scale military support, the Calladian government is willing to provide an elite unit of 10,000 highly trained saboteurs for... special operations. Against the right price ofcourse.

The Calladian government would however like to make clear that we do not support either party politically or ideologically. We are simply offering our services to whichever party offers us the most... beneficial agreement.

'End of broadcast'
"we don't need any more dirty terrorists here..go home" -Emperor Dak I

deleted

I'm just going to ignore the people who are deploying millions of troops in a single move simply because it is not possible.

So did you accept or reject my demands Shildonia?

.
3. Dakara: you can't just deploy 2.5million troops in one go. Logistically it is impossible, and it is even harder given that most, if not all, of Hallads ports are pretty much destroyed. Also, where are they going to live? Are you going to create some kind of shanty town (which would make disease rampant, not mention be a fire hazzard should any bombs be dropped on it. And there will be bombs dropped on it)




a. yes i can, there were a lot of boats
b. it's not impossible, impossible means there is no possible way of doing so, like emailing all my soldiers to hallad. that would be impossible.
c. where they are staying is of no concern to you
d. you're only ignoring CL because you can't win an arguement against him.
EDIT:
e. the same way you have planes that carry 54 missles and magic Nimitz class carriers that carry 90 something planes...

The Republic of China has begun monitoring the conflict through satellite imagery and reconassiance. Parliament is also discussing a proposal forwarded by President Chen Shui Bian for medical aid drops to affected civilians from both sides.

The Republic of China echos calls for peace and for Hallad to drop their demands of compensation - fighting another war over grievances caused by previous wars is incompentence at the highest level.

a. yes i can, there were a lot of boats
b. it's not impossible, impossible means there is no possible way of doing so, like emailing all my soldiers to hallad. that would be impossible.
c. where they are staying is of no concern to you
d. you're only ignoring CL because you can't win an arguement against him.

OOC: Hm... how about taking your time transporting them all at once, the amount of boats you would need to move 2.5 million troops is outstanding...

Thats before I even go into the logistical problems... basically put, take your time doing it, war isn't going to happen overnight it would be impossible for him to move that many troops at once if you can't... so don't worry about hurrying.

2.5 Million people is alot, it's most men then my own military has as a full time military... I have about 5 million men in my infantry and about 4 million of them are reserves. So I hope you are including support personnel in that figure...

The maxium amount of people I've ever mobilised is around 400'000 and I prefer to take my time about it...

Finally, I don't mind CL being ignored because he blatantly flamed the hell out of Shildonia... I don't like Shildonia much but I hate flaming even when you warn them about it.

[quote="Dakara"]a. yes i can, there were a lot of boats
b. it's not impossible, impossible means there is no possible way of doing so, like emailing all my soldiers to hallad. that would be impossible.
c. where they are staying is of no concern to you
d. you're only ignoring CL because you can't win an arguement against him.[quote]

OOC: Hm... how about taking your time transporting them all at once, the amount of boats you would need to move 2.5 million troops is outstanding...

Thats before I even go into the logistical problems... basically put, take your time doing it, war isn't going to happen overnight it would be impossible for him to move that many troops at once if you can't... so don't worry about hurrying.

2.5 Million people is alot, it's most men then my own military has as a full time military... I have about 5 million men in my infantry and about 4 million of them are reserves. So I hope you are including support personnel in that figure...

The maxium amount of people I've ever mobilised is around 400'000 and I prefer to take my time about it...

Finally, I don't mind CL being ignored because he blatantly flamed the hell out of Shildonia... I don't like Shildonia much but I hate flaming even when you warn them about it.

fine whatever.. this si the first group of soldiers. and yes support personel is included. but my point remains that it's not "impossible" as Shildonia put it. improbable yes, but so are his "F-52's" as he calls them.

I need a confirmation when the 24 hours have passed.

Well, really I am just waiting for him to reply. I had to give an IC limit though.

OOC - 54 Phoenix missiles?

Im glad someone else noticed that. How big are those aircraft, Shildonia? 747 sized? Cut it down to 4 each and its feasible...Phoenix missiles are pretty damn big.


This isn't some dinky little F-15 type thing. It is called the F-52 for a reason. I am getting sick of people claiming the idea of reconfiguring a B-52 to carry air-to-air missiles is somehow impossible. I made a thread saying the aircraft had been developed, I even had to explain how it was possible in the other thread of because of people not grasping the significance of it being -52.
If you want to complain about how unfeasible it is you should have done so in the thread where I declared they had been built.
Technically it should probably be called the P-52, but that makes it seem like a direct sucesser to the P-51 Mustang.

OOC: Now that you explain it, thats fine... note that i asked whether it was the size of a 747? I didn't automatically think F-52 was the same as a B-52...after all, an F-25 isn't the same as a B-25. The only problem i can see with this is that there would literally have to be a supercomputer aboard the aircraft if you intend to fire several of these missiles at once at different targets, and that it would probably be easy to bring down because it would be very unmaneuverable. Could you give the thread link?

OOC: And Dakara...I am on your side but I have to agree that 2.5 million troops deployed instantly is too many. It would take at least 12 months, most likely much longer for even the RL US army to deploy that many men. You should cut our initial landing force down to 100,000 men, which is still a lot, and gradually increase the number. If the conflict goes on long enough, then you can probably build up to the 2.5 million men. Just think of the amount of food you would have to carry to feed that many people at once :? You'd need months to establish an effective convoy system, protected from enemy attack.

IC: The Kanabian army is deploying an Armoured batallion of 10,000 men equipped with Leclerc tanks and associated air defences to Hallad. They will arrive in 3 days and be mostly combat ready in a further week. The 5th, 12th, and 23rd marine Brigades are standing by for deployment, along with accompanying air support units. The navy is in full combat readiness. All reservists have been notified that their units may be activated. The Kanabian president sends once again a message to Shildonia, stressing the importance of a diplomatic solution, and strongly suggests that they back down and negotiate with Hallad.

OOC: And Dakara...I am on your side but I have to agree that 2.5 million troops deployed instantly is too many. It would take at least 12 months, most likely much longer for even the RL US army to deploy that many men. You should cut our initial landing force down to 100,000 men, which is still a lot, and gradually increase the number. If the conflict goes on long enough, then you can probably build up to the 2.5 million men. Just think of the amount of food you would have to carry to feed that many people at once :? You'd need months to establish an effective convoy system, protected from enemy attack.


OOC: i know, i cut it back.. it was partly to see what he would do. fine 100,000 troops it is

IC:
Excerpt from "The Dakingrader" (if your have not figured out by now, this is the Dakingrad newspaper)

"It was revealed today that the number of dakarans involved was greatly exagerrated, and the closest estimate we can get is 100,000 troops.. we wait to see how this wil play out."

OOC: And Dakara...I am on your side but I have to agree that 2.5 million troops deployed instantly is too many. It would take at least 12 months, most likely much longer for even the RL US army to deploy that many men. You should cut our initial landing force down to 100,000 men, which is still a lot, and gradually increase the number. If the conflict goes on long enough, then you can probably build up to the 2.5 million men. Just think of the amount of food you would have to carry to feed that many people at once :? You'd need months to establish an effective convoy system, protected from enemy attack.


OOC: i know, i cut it back.. it was partly to see what he would do. fine 100,000 troops it is

IC:
Excerpt from "The Dakingrader" (if your have not figured out by now, this is the Dakingrad newspaper)

"It was revealed today that the number of dakarans involved was greatly exagerrated, and the closest estimate we can get is 100,000 troops.. we wait to see how this wil play out."

News of the aircraft launches is relayed to the Vulcans from the E-3. The Vulcans begin deploying towed decoys out from beneath their tails. These decoys are designed to have a much larger radar cross section and IR signature than that the Vulcans themselves, the idea being to present a more favourable target. Jamming gear on the bombers is also activated in an attempt to overpower the enemies radar and prevent them getting a lock.
Four of the F-52s move towards the Mig-33s and fire a Phoenix at each of them, the other two remain with the Nimrods and the E-3s.

The group of Migs fired off their missiles at the F-52's. Immediatly after that they began running evasive munuveurs.

OOC: Sorry, I'm not that familiar with pheonix missiles, they are guided, no?

Office of the Admiralty: 0750 hours

Admiral Brusilov was at his desk working on paperwork that had to be done so that the navy could operate. As he was scribbling his signature onto some obscure paper the phone began to ring. He picked it up.

"Admiral Brusilov speaking"
"Hello Alexei, this is Vladimir. I just wanted to tell you that you've been given command of the 7th, 8th and 9th fleets for the Shildonian/Halladi crisis."
"Really? What are my orders?"
"Sail for Hallad immediately. We don't expect Shildonia to accept our demands and perhaps a show of power might convince them to think our way."
"Okay, I'll get to the fleet immediately"
"Good Luck Alexei."

He hung up, strapped on his pistols, put on his hat and walked out the door to his car. He climbed in the driver's seat and headed off towards the docks...

OOC: The Admiral was speaking to the Minister of War.

uh... a Nimitz maxes out at 85 aircraft per carrier. What about electronic warfare? What about anti-submarine warfare? What about airborne radar? What about re-fueling? What about search and rescue?

oh yeah... and I'm scratching my head on the carrier based F-22's.

You raise a good point, How do I get 7 more planes, simple, I built them (the carreris) 25 feet longer. As for Anti Submarine The Sea Wolf and Los Angelese will do that with the Spruances helping. Air borne warfare, well I guess the planes will have to help the Arleigh Burke in that category (Aegies weapons system can lock on and shoot down 200 targets at a time, at least in war games, it takes time for the missles to reach teh target). The destroyers have helicopters (Sea Kings) on them for rescue of downed pilots and sailors. And I don't bother to list supply vehicles with the combat forces. If you would prefer I could list those too, but in my opinion it is obvious that they are present and it just wastes time to list them unless it is posting damage from an attack.

And the F-22's have been modified to take off of and land on a carrier, it is a bit trickier than with an F-14 or an F-18 but it is still possible.

OOC: Sorry, I'm not that familiar with pheonix missiles, they are guided, no?

Yes, they are radar guided and have a range of hundreds of miles. If you don't have Pheonix Missles it is all but impossible to shoot down a plane with Pheonix missles. Well, that is a dramatization, if a Pheonix misses then you have a good chance of shooting down their target, or if they went full speed at the enemy plane they may get within range of their missles before the Pheonix gets them. All missles now are guided, rockets are unguided, missles are guided rockets, or something like that.

The Admiral's small car sped through the deserted streets of Haton. This was the only part of the day that there was no traffic. Most people were still asleep. As he arrived at the docks he was greeted by the sight of hundreds of sailors and marines running around, getting ready to depart. He parked his car and walked up into his massive flagship, the HNS Hammer of the Proletariat. His officers were there to greet him.

"Good morning Admiral."
"Good morning, how long until we are ready to depart?"
"About an hour, we will have to meet up with the 8th Fleet, they were offshore doing training exercises."

The Admiral nodded

56 minutes later

"Admiral, we are ready to go."
"Good, sound quarters and raise the flags"
"Yes sir!"

The whistles of the boatswains echoed throughout the fleet. Then the engines started up. The ships then sailed off towards the grey horizon...

4 hours later

"Admiral, we've linked up with the 8th fleet. They've radioed that they are ready to sail."
"Good, full speed ahead."

The Admiral then walked over the teletype machine.

[code:1:6c7bbcedb4]
To: The True Directorate

Hello, this is Admiral Brusilov, I am in command of the 7th, 8th, and 9th Hattian fleets. We are en-route to Hallad and should arrive within the week. We will give the facists a taste of proletarian justice.
[/code:1:6c7bbcedb4]

OOC: Just to tell you, Hattian fleets are centered around the 2 aircraft carriers in each fleet. Generally there are 2 battleships (Generally a true battleship and a battlecruiser, we use them in the same role.) per aircraft carrier in fleets. So we've got 6 aircraft carriers going to Hallad.

http://www.nswcdc.navy.mil/fleet.jpg

http://www.nn.northropgrumman.com/products/images/fleet.jpg

OOC: Sorry, I'm not that familiar with pheonix missiles, they are guided, no?

Yes, they are radar guided and have a range of hundreds of miles. If you don't have Pheonix Missles it is all but impossible to shoot down a plane with Pheonix missles. Well, that is a dramatization, if a Pheonix misses then you have a good chance of shooting down their target, or if they went full speed at the enemy plane they may get within range of their missles before the Pheonix gets them.

Wrong, wrong, wrong! Maybe your only knowledge of the AIM-54 comes from watching the movie Top Gun. See, its a big missile, and while it could theoretically be an excellent weapon against bombers and heavily loaded strike aircraft, it just isnt maneuverable enough to pose a problem for Hallad's MiG-29s, which remains one of the most maneuverable fighter aircraft in the world, capable of pulling at a conservative estimate between +8 and -4 G's. The Phoenix's diameter is about twice as much as the AMRAAM and it weighs three times as much...and the AMRAAM is by no means the most maneuverable thing out there...it can be evaded. The maximum range of the Phoenix is about 200km.

I quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-54_Phoenix

"Actual ranges at which the Phoenix has successfully hit targets in tests:

* longest shot to kill: ~ 140 km
* average engagement ranges: 20 - 70 km
* the shortest shot to kill: 7.5 km

Other than the possible Iranian firings, the only confirmed combat use of the Phoenix was in the first Gulf War, and it missed its target, a Mil helicopter."

It missed a Mil helicopter. Im presuming that this is a Mil-8, probably the most maneuverable of the Mil series. Now, if you don't know, the Mil-8 is an antiquated cargo helicopter with a small combat capability. If it somehow managed to avoid a Phoenix, the vast majority of those MiGs should have absolutely no problem.

You have to question why in Libya and the Gulf War, F-14 pilots usually closed in and used Sidewinders. The Phoenix is probably just a publicity weapon like the Patriot missile.

OOC: Sorry, I'm not that familiar with pheonix missiles, they are guided, no?

Yes, they are radar guided and have a range of hundreds of miles. If you don't have Pheonix Missles it is all but impossible to shoot down a plane with Pheonix missles. Well, that is a dramatization, if a Pheonix misses then you have a good chance of shooting down their target, or if they went full speed at the enemy plane they may get within range of their missles before the Pheonix gets them. All missles now are guided, rockets are unguided, missles are guided rockets, or something like that.

in excess of 100 nautical miles, proximity detonated, weigh around 1,000lbs.

Wing Commander Nguyen stood on deck of the new aircraft carrier, the Orca II. He had seen combat before, against Midlonia, and had fought with Hattian forces before. He was a Major then, and now he was in command of the air wing of the ship and its new K-32/K-35 Firehawk fighters. Usually a cautious man, he was quite confident that these aircraft were more than up to anything that any enemy could throw at them. The crew waved to the large crowd of people gathered at the port as the carrier pulled out of harbour towards the seas off the coast of Hallad.

Heh, Brusilov is the same Admiral that was in command in the Midlonian crisis.

I probably won't be able to get on until Monday, I have to go to my fathers and he is a technophobe. :(

"How dare the people of Dakara imply that we are terrorists! We were simply offering special forces. The use of special forces is widely accepted practise. We demand a public apology for this outrageous slander!

Just because we can not spare any regular armed forces does not give you the right to make such preposterous accusations. We can only offer military support in the form of skilled... commandos, which, although few in number, can greatly disrupt the enemies battle plans. How we which to allocate these troops is none of your business!"

Heh, Brusilov is the same Admiral that was in command in the Midlonian crisis.

I probably won't be able to get on until Monday, I have to go to my fathers and he is a technophobe. :(

OOC: Yeah, I remembered that :)

OK, no problem.

"How dare the people of Dakara imply that we are terrorists! We were simply offering special forces. The use of special forces is widely accepted practise. We demand a public apology for this outrageous slander!

Just because we can not spare any regular armed forces does not give you the right to make such preposterous accusations. We can only offer military support in the form of skilled... commandos, which, although few in number, can greatly disrupt the enemies battle plans. How we which to allocate these troops is none of your business!"

How about this: You aren't terrorists, but you are mercenaries, and they aren't much better. We're not interested.

To help Shildonia or not to help Shildonia

Inside the F-52's, the alarms begin sounding that missiles had locked on. Chaff and flares were dropped and the F-52's began diving towards the surface at full speed. They also activated their own jammers to further overwhelm the enemies radar.

----

Open statement from the Office for Foreign Affairs

We may be willing to negotiate a peace with the criminal government in Hallad, but before this is possible the following conditions must be met:
1. All foreign military vessels must move away from the Shildonian coastline to a distance of not less than 700 miles.
2. All Halladian troops ships will return to port.
These conditions are there to demonstrate good faith, and to reduce the threat to Shildonia. For our part, two NR-157s will be returned to their base immediatly, and the two remaining NR-157s will retreat to a distance of 150miles from the Halladian coast. Once our requests are met, there will be a 25% reduction in the number of aircraft flying airbourne alerts as part of the Shildonian nuclear deterrent against Halladian aggression.

From the Office of the Military Advisor to the NNA

We hereby applaud the Shildonian Government's call for peace. We will be ordering our forces to stand down from Defcon 1 to Defcon 2 (we weren'y officially at war with Hallad or Hatti but we were prepared for a sneak attack), we would like to request that all other nations follow suit. Too many lives have been lost over this petty little dispute over a mere 20 million dollars. All nations should stand down and use this as an example of when egos go wrong.

"Sir, Shildonia has made a move towards peace!"

General Coren sat behind the magnificent oak desk, listening to the messengers words, before turning to the lesser members of the council.

"This war could have been a very profitable undertaking for us and exactly the boost we needed to gain a more powerful position in the world. Peace would not suit our purposes."

Coren looked around appraising the other members and could tell they agreed.

"I suggest we send a small special ops unit to Shildonia to destroy one of their electrical plants. That should suffice to derail any peace negotiations. Make sure that they can not be linked to us when captured though. Better yet, make them seem like troops from Hallad or Hattia. Try to minimize collateral damage."

Inside the F-52's, the alarms begin sounding that missiles had locked on. Chaff and flares were dropped and the F-52's began diving towards the surface at full speed. They also activated their own jammers to further overwhelm the enemies radar.

----

Open statement from the Office for Foreign Affairs

We may be willing to negotiate a peace with the criminal government in Hallad, but before this is possible the following conditions must be met:
1. All foreign military vessels must move away from the Shildonian coastline to a distance of not less than 700 miles.
2. All Halladian troops ships will return to port.
These conditions are there to demonstrate good faith, and to reduce the threat to Shildonia. For our part, two NR-157s will be returned to their base immediatly, and the two remaining NR-157s will retreat to a distance of 150miles from the Halladian coast. Once our requests are met, there will be a 25% reduction in the number of aircraft flying airbourne alerts as part of the Shildonian nuclear deterrent against Halladian aggression.


The True Directorate has had quite a laugh at that proposal. After all, we are not criminals, and it is Shildonia who attack us while we were still ready negotiate! Not only that, but Shildonia has threatened US with Nuclear War! And that affects the entire world.

Now, enough with your petty attempts to avoid what is comming to you.

***


Five of the MiG's were destroyed but others had been able to out munuevers the missiles. They then went toward the enemy craft, ready to engage them in a dog-fight.

***

[code:1:d665b38b72]
To: Admiral Brusilov
Your presence is welcomed, comrades. These agressors are expected to give quite a resistance. We look foward to your arrival.[/code:1:d665b38b72]

Hallad, I am sending 5,000,000 troops to help you in your cause. They are wearing camoflague and they have night-vision goggles. I am also sending 50 T-90 Tanks.

***Secret Message to Hallad***
I am giving you a little......gift, a 5 megaton nuclear warhead
***End Message to Hallad***


Do you accept my troops?

Of course we will accept your troops.

[code:1:6bee7b4a69]
Unfortunatly we will not except this weapon. If Hallad is to have nuclear weapons we wish them to be our own.[/code:1:6bee7b4a69]

Scroll back a page. See the bit where it was generally agreed that 2.5million troops was impossible? Tone the numbers down. Also, it would be nice if someone acknowledged that with most ports destroyed it will be difficult to land the troops, rather than having them land without even noticing the lack of ports.

----

As the bombers are now in range they are issued the go-codes and fire their missiles into the Halladian fleets. Primary target is the carrier in each fleet, then the troop ships, then the battleships, and finally the minesweepers.
The F-52's begin using the volley-fire tactics outlined earlier, with the front line firing a missile at each enemy aircraft before turning and flying to a position 75miles behind the second wave. During the retreat phase, the F-52's fire 20mm depleted uranium shells from their tail guns (which, according to Global Security (http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/b-52-describe.htm) is capable of tracking missiles) at inbound missiles and any aircraft that get within range. Repeat until out of missiles\all aircraft are shot down.

"The Empire calls for peace in this conflict. If agreed to, ambassadors from both sides can meet on the HEN Everlasting to discuss terms for a cease-fire"

-Foriegn Affairs Minister Edmund Shipman

We most certainly will send a representative, as long as our earlier requests are met. However, such a meeting will most likely be in vain, as the criminals in Hallad seem to have decided self destruction is preferable to peace.

"It is written, love thy enemies. You can give the 'criminals'-so you call them-a chance"

-Shipman

They are criminals. They demanded money and threatened war if the money was not handed over. This is more commonly known as extortion. Since they are criminals, we need assurances that no attacks are made during the talks. That is the reason for our two requests.

"If you must have an assurance of no attacks, then the Grand Fleet will be present at the negotiations"

-Shipman

It is the threat of attacks on our homeland that is worrying. Until our two simple requests are met there will be no negotiations.

"With the presence of the Grand Fleet, would one side be willing to abruptly end peace talks with an attack on your lands?"

-Shipman

These are criminals we are talking about. They have no respect for the rule of law, and most likely have no concerns about the consequences of their actions.

"The Empire wishes that you, in order to at least not hurt the possibility of peace talks, stop calling your opponents criminals. As far as we are concerned, it is all propaganda, unless you can prove that they are criminals (OOC:with links to the post)."

-Shipman

First post of this thread

"Although he has made demands, it is not unreasonable to me that you should have followed them; supporting Nazis (if this is true) is not far from being a criminal yourself. I find the matter of criminality hypocrytical"

-Shipman

Unfortunately Shildonia has chosen war. Everybody gets a second and even a third chance, but a forth chance for Shildonia to murder more people is totally out of question. We all hoped that the terrorists who rule Shildonia, won't dare to strike an other blow against the peace loving people of Hallad. We were wrong. Again fascism has show its ugly face to the free world. During the night shift thousands of workers, fellow proletarians have been assassinated by the Shildionian Luftwaffe we can not let them get away with that. Not this time. You terrorists who run Shildonia, you are responsible for the retaliations from the People's Liberation Army Airforce and the People's Liberation Army Navy which, as you have been toled in advance where unavoidable in the case of future agressions. As sure as the bombardment of Guernica led ultimately to the bombardment of Berlin your terror against Hallad has led to the bombardment of Shildonia.

In this moment the 7th and the 13th fleets are firing long range missiles at key installations in Shildonia. Primary targets are air defence installations like radars, air fields and obvious AAA installations along with the Shildonina navy vessels in the ports and on the sea within the range of our missiles. Secondary targets are oil tanks, rail way bridges, barracks and government buildings. The 666th remains in strategic reserve to react on enemy moves. The second wave of our operation is the use of our stealth bombers. They are out to destroy what s left of the Shildonian air defence by precision strikes. In the third and final step our first bomber fleet will attack several Shildonian army camps, the ministry of defence and the navy head quarter, while in the same time the planes from of the 13th fleet go for Shildoninan Ships not destroyed in the naval bombardment. Those of the 7th remain at stand by to take down Shildonian aircrafts which have survived the operation.

We hope that you are now willing to accept Fluffywuffy's generous offer without futher demands or objections. If so we are ready to meet you on the Everlasting. If not the we are ready to liberate Shildonia totaly and completely. Again it is all up to you.

"The Empire calls for an unconditional cease-fire, and peace talks on the Everlasting. Both sides are wasting lives and material over what? How is the death of thousands more going to allow the souls of those who fell in the past rest in peace? To end this silly waste of lives, we call on both sides to agree to a cease-fire and meet aboard our vessel-in protection of our fleet, for those who need the utmost protection-to end this waste."

-Shipman

OOC: I hope these people aren't going to continue this war over the politics of a bunch of Nazis. Nazis are anti-semittic, yes, but at the start of World War II the systematic murder of Jews was not even thought of as an option. The Nazis just didn't want any Jews in their Country. Britain and France are just as guilty as Germany for what happened to the Jews. Hitler had tried to force the emmigration of all jews out of Germany, but, France and Britain, for fear of fueling anti-semittism in their countries, only allowed 50,000 and 40,000 jews respectively into their countries from Germany. Nobody wanted jews in their countries at this time, but Germany got stuck with all the Jews, everyone wanted to get rid of them at the time, unfortunately the only option for Germany was to kill them all, or atleast try.

I do not support the actions the Nazis took during WWII, I only wrote this so that people will realise that Germany was far from solely responsible for the Holocaust, just like they weren't solely responsible for WWI, Austria started that war but Germany got blamed. Britain, France, and America are more responsible for WWII than most people care to think.

These are criminals we are talking about. They have no respect for the rule of law, and most likely have no concerns about the consequences of their actions.

Taking the moral high ground just after you ruthlessly attacked civilian areas? It might pay to check the consequences of your actions. We would be more than willing to let our forces back down, but you will be expected to pay even more compensation. Think of all the Halladi families suffering as a result of your actions.

Why should the True Directorate negotiate with these Shildonian Terrorists? They started the war, we started the negotiation! Now they say peace, but it doesn't seem that way to the families who lost loved ones!

"The Empire calls for an unconditional cease-fire, and peace talks on the Everlasting. Both sides are wasting lives and material over what? How is the death of thousands more going to allow the souls of those who fell in the past rest in peace? To end this silly waste of lives, we call on both sides to agree to a cease-fire and meet aboard our vessel-in protection of our fleet, for those who need the utmost protection-to end this waste."

-Shipman

As stated before, the PRC is ready and willing to negotiate. As a gesture of good will we are now, after the devastating bombardment of Shildonia calling a one sided temporary cease-fire. We also send a group of negotiators to the Everlasting, to wait for the Shildonian officials. For the sake of a lasting peace we here with invite Zoogie to take part in this negotiations.

"The Empire wishes that the other nations in this conflict follow Crosshill's sensibility, and thier lack of propaganda at the negotiating table. That place is a place not to forget about the war, but to end it. The comments made by Hallad and Shildonia, as I believe, are fueling this conflict. Should you two come to your senses, the Everlasting awaits your diplomats."

-Shipman

* A squad of 100 Calladian special forces, divided into 10 subgroups, having entered Shildonian territory via naval insertion, making use of small, inconspicuous dingies, hit, damaged or destroyed Shildonian ports, power plants, communication stations and a munitions depot, operating under the guise of Halladi troops. *

Given the recent rise in hostilities from both sides, the Calladian government would once again like to renew its offer of 10,000 highly trained special ops units, to aid the war effort of whomever offers the most beneficial agreement. Further more, having a thriving Uranium Mining industry, the Calladian government is prepared to sell high grade Uranium to the highest bidder, no questions asked.

Two men have been sent to the Everlasting for the 'cease-fire' meeting. They are Ameen Al'Fahid and General Jeremy Cross of the Red Army. The True Directorate has choosen to gives these terrorists a chance.

OCC: Ok, I have time, I have a pc, and I am annoyed majorly.



*Premier DuFour begins his speech to The Peoples Congress located in the capital of Communist Louisiana*
http://virtualhometown.com/cowboy/capital1.jpg
"After an absent in recent acts by our government in the war between Hallad and Shildonia, we must attain to the defense treaty with Hallad. We will begin naval defense of Hallad with the Red Fleets of Louisiana"


*Secret transmission to Hallad's government* We wish to take back complete control of our 10 Los Angeles Class Submarine's.


The Red Fleets begin moving out of Louisianaian waters. The following naval units are begining the mobilization towards Hallad:

100 Mackensen Class Trimaran-Hull Battleships
100 Shotgun Class Cruise Missile Submarine's
100 Silencer Class Submarine (Heavily Modified Ohio)
2 Emory S. Land Class Submarine Tender's(Submarine Ship Fixer)
4 Blue Ridge Class Amphibious Command Ship's
10 Kilauea Class Ammunition Ship's
10 Kaiser Class Oiler Ship's
10 Arleigh Burke guided missile AEGIS Destroyer's
40 Iowa Class Battleship's
3 Virginia - class CGN
100 Skjold Class Battleships
5 Infusion Class Carriers
10 Tidal class Battleship's
9 Nimitz Class Aircraft Carrier's
10 Los Angeles Class Submarine's
325 MiG-29's
400 F-16 Fighting Falcon's
100 F-22 Raptor's
100 F/A-18 Hornet's

[code:1:9ca64ad803]To: CL
From: The True Directorate
Of course, they will be given back immediatly.[/code:1:9ca64ad803]

* Further actions have been taken by Calladian special operatives. Three different objectives have been targetted. One of our snipers, working under the guise of a Halladi sniper, using Halladi weapons and wearing a Halladi uniform, has taken a shot at one of Shildonias ranking generals. Although a hit has been reported by our sniper, such is as of yet unconfirmed. Two other squads have targetted the house of one of the Supreme Court judges and the department of Justice to be damaged or destroyed. These squads are dressed like Shildonian rebels and carry Shildonian weapons and explosives. No reports have yet been received on these two actions.

Finally, a letter has been send by the Calladian government under the guise of the 'Shildonian Free Militia', declaring a war of terror against the Shildonian goverment and its opressive rule. *

Edit to the last post: the last post should ofcourse have been posted by Callad and NOT Tomen (which is my dear brothers nationstate), but I forgot to look as whom I was logged in, which can sometimes give rise to such problem since both me and my brother are on automatic log in...

We will also send representatives to the negotiations.

Communist Louisiana is ignored for godmodding.

A nation that is smaller than I am can not have over 200 battleships and over 10 large carriers. It is just not possible regardless of what you may think.

A good comparaison may be the US for your nation, which has MUCH less than you.

Learn to RP and then feel free to come back.

OOC: I think everybody should have an army just as she pleases. There are nuclear powerd bombers in the air and I don't care. I have fought elves and have seen F-52 Fighters :lol: It is about having fun. I always scale my army up and down the way I please. If I am in a fight against people who care for logistics, I do that as well. If they use orbital lasers and mechwarriors, well I have to do that too. Keep in mind that he has mobilized his (CL you are male, arn't you?) complete navy CL is twice big as the USA, and has a Very Strong economy (that of the Real Life (TM) USA is imploded or weak at the best [external debts of 35% of the GDP!!]). I think that it is not godmoding to have a navy of that size. I personally would prefere a smaller navy but I think to have fun is the most importat thing here. I suggest that CL scales the navy down a bit. :wink:

OOC: Rolls eyes at Crosshill's remarks.

I apologize. I was under the mistaken impression that this was a modern, semi-realistic RP. Apparently I am mistaken. Sorry Zoogie, West Pacific, Shildonia, I am not interested in RPing something that is not closer to realism. Otherwise this can probably end in a godmod fest.

The costs of having such a navy in addition to any army and air force at all would be so overbearing that his nation would collapse.

OOC: Rolls eyes at Crosshill's remarks.

I apologize. I was under the mistaken impression that this was a modern, semi-realistic RP. Apparently I am mistaken. Sorry Zoogie, West Pacific, Shildonia, I am not interested in RPing something that is not closer to realism. Otherwise this can probably end in a godmod fest.

The costs of having such a navy in addition to any army and air force at all would be so overbearing that his nation would collapse.

Still OOC: Why don't you wait a bit and let CL react. If he scales his navy down every thing would be all right. I think we will find a way to make this RP compfortable for every one. Since I personally prefer the realistic variant I would regret it if you leave.

OOC: Rolls eyes at Crosshill's remarks.

I apologize. I was under the mistaken impression that this was a modern, semi-realistic RP. Apparently I am mistaken. Sorry Zoogie, West Pacific, Shildonia, I am not interested in RPing something that is not closer to realism. Otherwise this can probably end in a godmod fest.

The costs of having such a navy in addition to any army and air force at all would be so overbearing that his nation would collapse.

Still OOC: Why don't you wait a bit and let CL react. If he scales his navy down every thing would be all right. I think we will find a way to make this RP compfortable for every one. Since I personally prefer the realistic variant I would regret it if you leave.

Yeah CL, Hattia doesn't even have 100 battleships. (We do have many more than 10 heavy carriers though.)

OOC:

Thank you Hattia. Crosshill I will wait for CL to respond however, you said "it is not godmoding", which I disagree with. (since the US is the strongest economical nation out there with an average personal income of about 25 000 -30 000 I'd say that the nation is "very strong")

Moreover I have no patience for CL given his previous actions/comments.

IC:

The government of Hudecia applauds the motions of most nations towards peace and hopes the remainder will follow their allies righteous path.

OCC:First off all, every single one of those naval units can be confirmed by the producers. I bought mostly form Northrop. I bought from Dujion(SP?) and from a coupple of other places. I can prove purchase for all. Also, my economy has never fallen below Average. I do not have a large army. I spend most of my defense money on navy b/c all major cities in Louisiana are reachable by boat. I have 2300 M1A2 Abrams Tanks,
1000 Self-Propelled Crusader Artillery, 600 Battle tank Leopard 2's, and coupple million Red Troops not many though. Nothing in the rules of RP says that I cant spend 80% of military budget on Navy. Also my airforce is pretty much those planes besides the 3 cargo transports and the coupple of bombers. By the way Hudecia, where in the hell do you fit in those whole thing anyways?

OOC: Ahh... I can see where this is going.

"A couple million troops" is actualy a pretty big army, not a small army as you seem to suggest. Most nations will back this up seeing as America only comes close to a million man army if they use all their reserves as well and I'm thinking of the numbers of men they had during the peak of the cold war.

Hm... I could go on to point out that the simple upkeep cost of these ships would take up too way much of the bugdet, I could also point out that the upkeep cost skyrockets when you mobilise units...

But lets face it... you won't listen to me. Hattia your ally has pointed out that he thinks it's well in excess of what you can reasonably have... Crossman has, to some degree, given you the benefit of the doubt. So there is no point in me going into detail on why 200+ battleships is too much for me, a 2 billion+ nation to afford.

However, I would like to point out that even if you flame the hell out of me for adding this, it doesn't change the fact that someone on your side doubts the validity of this claim... if that isn't important to you then I don't know what is.

Why should the True Directorate negotiate with these Shildonian Terrorists? They started the war, we started the negotiation! Now they say peace, but it doesn't seem that way to the families who lost loved ones!

You declared war the second you posted this thread. Check the title, it says"War with Shildonia", not "War with Hallad". You were just sitting on your hands throwing insults at Shildonia, Shildonia on the other hand was acting. Did you really think he would wait for you to attack him? No, you declared war to him so he attacked, nothing criminal about that. Besides these "civilians" were in all likely hood preparing shipls and supplies for the Halladi military for the war with Shildonia, they are helping in the war effort and can be attacked just like a guy in a tank.

The True Directorate has voted. If negotiations fail we will resort to war.

See, If negotiations fail.

He didn't declare war until Shildonia's pre emptive attack. And what evidence is there that his civilians were working for the military? And what about my trade ships?

The True Directorate has voted. If negotiations fail we will resort to war.

See, If negotiations fail.

He didn't declare war until Shildonia's pre emptive attack. And what evidence is there that his civilians were working for the military? And what about my trade ships?

By West Pacific's logic, it would be perfectly fine for me to firebomb/spread anti-vegetation fungi all over Shildonian agricultural areas, because they are providing food to supply the army, therefore helping the war effort. Never mind all the farmers that may die or the people who will starve from lack of food. Am I correct?

Defenceless civilians are defenceless civilians no matter their occupation or how they supposedly help the war effort!

Well, West Pacific, you have a interesting setup.

As for Anti Submarine The Sea Wolf and Los Angelese will do that with the Spruances helping.
You know the subs will have to stay a fair amount of distance away fron the CVBG, for fear of being targets themselves. Your two carriers will have, I guess two destroyers carring 4 Sea Kings for search and rescue. This whole group will have to stay close together (or they could break into two close groups), so that they stay in a protective area from enemy subs. The problem is, these ships will have to stay closer together, making themselve more volnerable to an attack. In addition, lacking aircraft like the ASW Viking, use of only helos, while important, introduces quite abit of hinderance to your ASW defense. Helos lack range, capacity, and speed which turns a possible kill to a miss.

Air borne warfare, well I guess the planes will have to help the Arleigh Burke in that category (Aegies weapons system can lock on and shoot down 200 targets at a time, at least in war games, it takes time for the missles to reach teh target).
I guess this is response to my query on airborne radar. If you lack E-2C Hawkeyes, you hamper the CVBGs ability to see beyond the group. Carriers will be a target for any enemy, and you limit your ability greatly to see an aggressive force. Airborne radar lets you see your attacker before he can attack. Additionally, lacking any electronic warfare planes limits the effectiveness of your fighters to attack an aggressor.

And I don't bother to list supply vehicles with the combat forces. If you would prefer I could list those too, but in my opinion it is obvious that they are present and it just wastes time to list them unless it is posting damage from an attack.
My error. When I asked about re-fueling, I meant it to mean mid-air re-fueling. With 92 fighters, I would guess you would need 6 re-fuelers, or you don't have refuelers, and your carrier groups are just wasting money.

And the F-22's have been modified to take off of and land on a carrier, it is a bit trickier than with an F-14 or an F-18 but it is still possible.
I figured that about them, but without a special letter to them, I had to make sure. I do wonder, and I'd like to put this out to Iuthia as well, why spend the money to mod Air Force planes and not just use Navy planes? WP, why not use,say, the F-35C? and Iuthia, why not use say all F-18s instead of a mix of modded F-16s?

Iuthia, why not use say all F-18s instead of a mix of modded F-16s?

OOC: Actually, I meant F-14's I got mixed up.

You do raise some good questions about my Navy, they do lack the Early warning detection systems I would prefer them to have. I have had a hard time finding someone who will sell me either A. A large group of Hawkeye's or B. The technology to prduce my own, this has been a problem which has plaqued us since the creation of my nation. We are however negotiating to buy the production rights of the E-3 Hawkeye. We were able to purchase two early in January but they were destroyed in a fire in the hangar where they were being worked on.

As for the use of F-22's instead of F-18's for the Navy and F-15's and F-16's for the Air Force, that was because we wanted to standardise our armed forces, that way a Navy Pilot could land on an Air Force base, be re-feuled and armed, and take off again, without switching planes or the risk of the technicians not knowing how to arm the plane and having an accident and causing the loss of life. And we feel that the F-22 is a far superior plane to anything else we had in our arsenal.