NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC:
This is list of the "fictional" techs I'm going to be using in the Wolfish thread, with their strength and weakness. Please give me some feedback on this. I attempted to TG it to TEO or Iuthia, but it was too big. No nation in this campaign should know ANYTHING about BattleNet's workings, and if I see anyone "knowing" what it even is before they see it in action, I'll be pissed. The other programs are varying degrees of secret or open, but BattleNet is Deep Black. I'm putting this here for ease, but if I see people "knowing" my weaknesses before I use stuff...


-NEEDLER PDW(N.01)-

Armatech Industries has a new slogan, "The Future of Combat", and if the CRPDW is any indication, then they're not bluffing. I had the pleasure of firing one of these guns at a recent show, and I'll tell you, there is no finer gun for personal defense. The design is simple in concept, but innovative in its creation. Small (2mm) bullets, wrapped in a molded explosive, are fed from a clip just in front of the formed pistol grip. The first round is loaded, and when the trigger is pulled, a small spark (generated from the rear-inserted battery) strikes the explosive and detonates it. This fires the bullet through whichever of the three barrels is currently aligned. The vaccuum pulls the next round into the chamber, and the recoil is diverted to spin the next barrel into alignment. This in turn, charges the spark chamber, and triggers the next round. The current is checked by many sources, including a resistor plate over the clip, the removal of the trigger/primer, and an alignment groove on the barrels. In such a method, this gun fires at speeds of over sixty rounds per second.

With a flip of a switch, the clip falls away, and the tri-barrel assembly detatches. To load another assembly while the first cools, one must simply push the barrels into the receiving end and turn them, much like one loads bits into a drill. Armatech has incorporated many redundant current safeties into the gun to prevent misfire or misuse, including palm-coding and an overheat breaker that prevents firing into a fused barrel. Each of the 2mm "Needles" is made of Tungsten Carbide, designed to slide through armored vests, and this gives the gun it's nickname, the "Needler".

The clips are available in 30, 60, and 120 round variants, double-stacked. More could be loaded, but the barrels generally fuse at about 200 rounds continuous, and with the firing speeds, that is no time at all. This gun is designed for defense only, as it depletes its clip in under a second with 60 or less rounds. It is a guaranteed kill on the target, but in a multi-target engagement, the firing rate becomes a deficiency rather than a boon. (It has been suggested to swing the gun in an arc and leave a "buzz saw effect" of Needles, but this is likely to cause massive collateral.) The military has already picked up this weapon and dubbed it the N.01, and it is catching on with personal defense enthusiasts and bodyguards. It comes with a laser sight.

The H&K G-11 was based on this same principle, I've merely expanded upon it.

PROS: Fast firing rate, high penetration.
CONS: Ammo depletion, barrel fusing.


-NEEDLER MACHING GUN (NMG-1)-

Same firing mechanisms as the Needler N.01, but equipped with a massive heat pump and a large chain fed resevoir, this is mounted on HMMWV's, Gunships, and Tanks. This version fires at the same blinding rates, and can be used to cut down helicopters, or through anything short of MBT armor. Easily identified by powder spray and blue muzzle flash.

PROS: Devastating on infantry. Effective on light armor and even helicopters.
CONS: Chews through ammo, heat pump is hot enough to lock with heat seekers, and ammo cache is highly explosive due to molded charges.


-RAMS-
Rolling Airframe Missiles, designed to add to naval CIWS defense. These extend CIWS range, and show exceptional ability to strike the CIWS foiling Sunburn Missile. Currently used on 60 United States Navy Ships, and several German ships.

PROS: Defense against sea-skimming, Sunburn type missiles, more range.
CONS: Limitted missiles in battery. Like all CIWS, they are best beaten by "swarming" the ship with too many targets.


-MTHELS-
Mobile Theater High Energy Laser System. Instead of using highly reactive chemicals to create a laser beam inside a plume of hot gas, MTHEL performs its magic inside a special type of glass. Its operating principle is the same as that of all solid-state lasers, including those in CD drives and DVD players. Basically, light from a beefed-up flashbulb sends a stream of photons into nine neodymium-doped glass discs. Inside the discs, the light, which can be thought of as a rabble of raw recruits, becomes organized into a crack drill team--what physicists call a beam of coherent, monochromatic light. Gaining strength as more light is pumped in, the colorless laser beam bursts out one side of the crystal with enough power to heat steel at 200 yards. Paired with BattleNet, this will allow for defense, even against shells.
Developed by Israel and USA in joint project. Is being employed. In testing, shot down 96 Katyushka rockets in multiple salvos.

PROS: Can strike ballistic projectiles easier than bullet CIWS.
CONS: Heavy power supply and mounting system, only on ground or large ships.


-LOSAT-
Line of Sight Anti-Tank Weapon. LOSAT is a dedicated antitank weapon system providing a high rate of extremely lethal fire at ranges exceeding tank main gun range, making it capable of defeating any known or projected armor system. The system utilizes a Heavy High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (HMMWV) heavy chassis, hypervelocity kinetic energy missiles (KEM), a second generation forward-looking infrared (FLIR/TV) acquisition sensor and has a crew of two. The LOSAT System carries four ready missiles via two two-pack containers. LOSAT can operate autonomously or with other systems using its digitized Command and Control capability. Range of the LOSAT missile is greater than 4 km.

The missile accelerates to 5000 feet per second, flies to maximum range in less than four seconds and delivers five times the kinetic energy of current tank rounds. The fire control system allows the gunner/commander to acquire and auto-track up to three targets. Once a launch consent is issued, the system automatically initializes and guides the missiles to the targets in a sequential manner. It is deployable on C-130 through C-5 aircraft including airdrop from the C-130.

Developement started in late 1980s by US gov't. Successfully testes in 1992 against all known tanks. Unknown deployment status.

PROS: Grants AT capability to HMMWVs, and allows rapid deployment of high firepower.
CONS: Four shots before packs must be replaced. Shock on launching units also consideration.


-RAM Shells-
Removes part of the explosive load of a 16" or 18.1" shell and inserts a RAMjet. At the speeds of the shell, this is not hard to do, and the shell is guided by internal weight shifts and a cheap GPS Unit. First used by the US in Desert Storm.

PROS: Double the range.
CONS: Half the payload.


-First Generation BattleNet-
Land Warrior type system that acts on a squad level to coordinate the unit. Also used to network artillery, air support, and naval fire for ease of use on a PDA an officer has. Ties armor and naval groups together to utilize better group fire techniques and assure rapid information exchange. Brings real time satellite data to the units, and automates and streamlines multi-unit communications, especially in fire control and naval CIWS. Distributed processing is housed in backpack field systems, Command HMMWVs, and larger units. The targetting system used by laser designation is called "Valkyr System" (The choosers of the slain.)

PROS: Rapid response, accurate fire, and real time battle data allow extreme effectiveness and force projection in rapid time.
CONS: EMP will really bunk up my systems. (Armor and Naval BattleNet is hardened, but the infantry stuff isn't.) IF someone hacked BattleNet (YOU BETTER EXPLAIN HOW... AND ASK ME FIRST), they could cause severe damage to my forces.


-Pain Beams-
Microwave emitters on vehicles, used to induce extreme "burning" sensation in enemy units. Does little permanent damage, but can bring an infantry unit down. Very good for prisoner and riot control. Being developed for police and military forces. As it is non-lethal, I don't think many would complain about me using it.

PROS: Excellent at causing non-lethal submission from infantry, prisoners, and rioting civilians.
CONS: Worthless against armor, aircraft.


-Metal Storm Grenade Launcher-
Mounted on an Apache or Comanche helicopter, this is a prepacked series of 40mm grenades inside of a tube rack. With ten grenades per tube, and the tubes laid out in eight by eight boxes, this system allows for an immeadiate delivery of massive area of effect bombardment. The grenades fitted with molded explosive as a firing charge, and the charge moves down the barrel, firing the first, second, third, and so on, all in rapid sequence. Systems built by Australian company in 1980s.

PROS: Massive firepower over wide area in single instant, or continued firepower of lesser intensity.
CONS: No reload. Once it's fired, it's done.


-Comanche-
I'm sure you know the story of the Comanche. I use it primarily as a scout and forward controller for BattleNet systems.

PROS: Stealth, highly maneuverable helicopter.
CONS: Light payload and high cost.


-Seawolf-
Again, I'm sure you know the story of the Seawolf. I use it far less than the cheaper Wraith Submarine (Virgia Class, with capability to fire the supercavitation torpedos, and equipped with active sound interference.)

PROS: Most advance submarine in the water, if this is modern tech.
CONS: So expensive they're almost not worth it. Only one of four submarines is a Seawolf.


-Super Cavitation Torpedos-
These underwater rockets use cavitation to ride in a sheath of their own bubbles, in effect "flying" in the water. They move at about 400knots, and are devastatingly powerful with their kinetic force of impact.

The Russian Skvall is a real world version of this.

PROS: Very fast, powerful.
CONS: Dumb fire, very easy to track.


-Active Sound Destruction-
By feeding back the sounds received on a surface, at opposite frequency, the sound waves are nullified, and silence is all that is heard. This can be used to nullify sonar, or to silence an area of the battlefield. Underwater speakers are capable, and this is real and proven phenomena. Reverse the red and black wires on one of your speakers (if only two speakers), set the stereo to mono, and point them at each other. You will here NOTHING, because the sound cancels. Also called Negative Interference.

PROS: Nullfies sonar "pings" and can sow confusion on a battlefield.
CONS: Expensive, and sonar operators will wonder when they receive COMPLETE AND UTTER SILENCE to their pings.


-Athena System-
New Empire explained it.


-HyStrike Hypersonic Missiles-
A unique aspect of this Navy program is that the goal is a single hypersonic strike weapon that will be launchable from air, surface and subsurface platforms. This is a first-time collaboration between these three communities to develop a common weapon system for time-critical and deeply buried targets. It is produces increased operations effectiveness as well as life-cycle cost saving. The surface-launched system can hit underground targets to a depth of 12 meters after flying at beyond Mach 4. The wingless missile changes direction in flight by using a bending body joint. The HyStrike comprises a fin-less, bending body airframe, fixed geometry annular inlet, and a slip-out booster/ramjet engine. It delivers a 1000-pound payload to a range exceeding 700 nautical miles at a speed of Mach 4.0.

The weapon's greatly decreased time to target gives the command, control, communications, computers and intelligence (C4I) components more time to search for and identify time-critical threats. Powerful kinetic penetrators defeat the enemy's tactic of burrowing deeper or building stronger bunkers. And the ability to take out threat weapons before they are launched increases Kaukolastani and allied survivability, efficiency, cost effectiveness.

PROS: Much faster arrival than traditional cruise missiles. More effective against hardened targets.
CONS: Trades payload for speed (Tomahawks carry 2000lbs).


-Millenium Gun-
The Millennium Gun is the next generation of CIWS, developed by Lockheed in RL. A naval deck weapon system, it delivers inner-layer defense against sea-skimming antiship missiles, antiradiation missiles, and aircraft. It is also effective against fast-attack surface craft and near-shore targets during operations in littoral and riverine waters. Creating a "wall of lead," the Millennium Gun fires 35-mm ammunition, including the advanced Ahead round, at 1,000 rounds per minute. Each Ahead round disperses 152 metal subprojectiles. Forming a cone-shaped pattern, the subprojectiles destroy a target's control surfaces, seeker and other vital equipment components as a target moves through the wall of lead. The gun's muzzle brake programs each Ahead round as it exits the barrel, setting distance and subprojectile dispersal pattern.

PROS: More effective than CIWS at downing missiles and aircraft, with the added ability to target surface craft. Aided by BattleNet for better firing characteristics.
CONS: Can still be overwhelmed by multitude of targets.

That's all, folks. Not only does it tell strengths and weaknesses, but also gives colorful descriptions!

I think the Needlers, the Laser, and the Millenium gun would qualify for "Under Development-Ultramodern/postmodern".

The HK G-11 was found to be technically flawed on several counts-durability being the least of the issues. (Caseless ammo is still not practical for standard-issue, crumbs of Hercules Octagon burn quite well in an accidental environment)

the Polycarb armour is reminiscent of suits developed in the 1960's but never fielded (cost of production issue, and they're bloody hot to wear, also, carbon-fibre plastics still have a problem with degradation under UV light).

LOSAT was cancelled due to technical problems-it's nowhere near issue at this time (It only worked under the contractors controlled conditions).

The Hystrike missile programmes have proven a bust due to technical problems stemming from inherent instabilities in a missile that flexes on a joint. There is an intermediate line-of-sight weapon still under development at Raytheon for Air-Defense roles (THAAD), and that one's been axed from the budget to pay for other programmes (Like issuing everyone in the army black berets) but kinetic-kill missile systems are still mostly speculation.

Active Sound countermeasures are still Labtech-they only really work in confined environments right now, where water/air density is controlled and doppler effect is likewise a controlled effect. Most of the benefits you list are achievable using different angle-grinds on propellors and better lubrication/bearing arrangements combined with different hull-surface materials. (There is rumoured to be a paint that makes a sub look like whale blubber on sonar.)


Infantry-scale Battlenet systems still have severe durability issues (take your PDA with you into the worst field conditions you can manage, bang it around a bit, and let it get wet and muddy-or, to really test it as a "Soldier Proof system", give it to a twelve-year old on the same trip. one with ADHD and a temper...)


You're better off giving the sophisticated toys to Special Forces personnel- at least, the sophisticated Postmodern infantry gear- because those tech-toys don't have to be soldier-proofed then. Remember: the more complicated it is, the easier it is for a Private First Class or a 2nd Lt. to screw up (and they will!)

As for "Hacking" issues if you go with the Battlenet idea: the more powerful your encryption processors, the more vulnerable they are to EMP, a system that works fine on a ship won't work on a tank, and one that works on a tank won't necessarily work on a combat-aircraft-stability issues, temperature change issues,Pressure, humidity (and the lack thereof) play hell on electronics (I used to be a Patriot Missile Maintainer...) as does power-fluctuations, and the more tech-toys you give your soldiers, the more likely they are to fall into enemy hands to be used against you.
(1 Battlenet outfit falls into the wrong hands, and he's got your encryption...weaknesses... freqs and codes. and he doesn't need the ability to build one of his own to crack them, either. Just a fair idea of how it works. this is the reason the Army hasn't already fielded it...)

The ones currently in deployment or cancelled for budgetary issues (alone) look good-they're not too sci-fi for a Moderntech setting, and you don't need to be a nation on the scale of Wolfish or Automagfreek to be able to build them, maintain them, or deploy them.

I hope this the correct place to pose this question.


Anyway, I have read all 4 pages of the RP and I am extremely impressed with the quality of roleplay, not ery suprising considering the nations involved and I have changed my mind and would to be involved. howver we do not want a direct military cofrontation with your nation and instead propose that my role in this RP is purely observory one.

My plot idea, is for us to have a spy in Wolfish Defence Command, reporting back to the UE embassy?

give me some time for a reply, I'll assume I have no idea about the attack

I think that's a reasonable assumption, LOL.
You know, Cesleste is truly beloved by her people. I can't imagine how they're going to react.... :wink:

I hope this the correct place to pose this question.


Anyway, I have read all 4 pages of the RP and I am extremely impressed with the quality of roleplay, not ery suprising considering the nations involved and I have changed my mind and would to be involved. howver we do not want a direct military cofrontation with your nation and instead propose that my role in this RP is purely observory one.

My plot idea, is for us to have a spy in Wolfish Defence Command, reporting back to the UE embassy?

I'm good with that. I will mark you down as a hostile observer - You could have up to a junior level officer working in WDC - in fact - why not have two - independent of each other and let me catch and shoot one?

Cheers,
W.

Wolfish do you have MSN messanger?
din626@hotmail.com if you do :D

Wolfish do you have MSN messanger?
din626@hotmail.com if you do :D

Listen - we're all lucky that I can turn a computer on. We're even luckier that I know how to find Nationstates on the internet. So, I don't know what kind of witchcraft you're hawking - but it ain't for me. ;)

I'm gonna be ooc mia until sunday so don't expect any responses from me. Sorry for the short notice but real life beckons me.

I think there is still plenty to do....but you'll have some reading when you return.

GEC - We can play up the Queen being shot - and the Hatch Wolfish wargames too.

I think there is still plenty to do....but you'll have some reading when you return.

GEC - We can play up the Queen being shot - and the Hatch Wolfish wargames too.

Agreed, says I. There's lots of backstory and detail we can flesh out without any aggressive moves being made. EP, do you mind if I berate your ambassador some more while you're gone?
Best,
Hatch

LOSAT was cancelled due to technical problems-it's nowhere near issue at this time (It only worked under the contractors controlled conditions).
Could you link me to that? Last I had seen (2003), it was intended to go to the 82nd Airborne. The project was cancelled, twice actually. At first, the end of the Cold War, and it was removed from Bradley planning. Then, it was to placed on the Buford, but Bosnia costs cancelled the Buford, and the LOSAT was dropped. It was brought back again as a HMMWV only program.

Sweden, Russia, and China also have LOSAT-type missiles in developement.

On HyStrike
I know HyStrike is still in testing (flight test this May, coming around), but I figured that since it is merely the combination of modern technologies, it would not be out of the question. What it gains is arrival time and penetration, it loses in explosive load.

On BattleNet
The level of sophistication lowers at each rung of command. To the individual squad members, they are only given data, such as position and status of others, and the system automatically tracks their progress. At squad level, more features for coordination and support are added. At battalion level, there is complete integration of fire support.

The units are all tied to supercomputers back on Isis and Osiris military installations. If a unit is MIA/KIA, that assigned BattleNet system will no longer jack into the network, and any attempts to reconnect without proper query/response (decided by centralized units) will result in destruction of the contacting system. Any node stolen or missing is immeadiately deactivated, and it's location traced.

As for training, I field one of the smallest militaries on NS, running at a wartime high of 1% of my population (as opposed to the OMGZ NOES 5% and up that is commonly seen). Because of this smaller size, each soldier is given highly intensive and advanced training, to put out a smart, powerful force. This then changes the doctrine of combat for my nation to that of high speed strike and fade, as well as shock tactics. I felt this would make a nice change from grindingly huge wave assaults so commonly made, and play as a good change in pace.

(As a way of thinking, if any of you are Command and Conquer: Generals people, most NS plays "Chinese" style, while I play "USA" style.)

I can remove these systems if the RP demands it, but it really cuts my options for writing back down to the "normal" fighting methods employed, as I will have to field an army to fight the armies I'll be facing, and one designed the same. I'm not trying to sound snippy, and I appreciate the feedback.

If LOSAT really was gutted for tech problems, I'll pull it from this RP. Likewise, I have no problem with reducing the Millenium Gun to a Goalkeeper, or the HyStrike to a Tomawk, or the LOSAT to a TOW, or stripping the Needler completely away and sticking in the MP7 or P90. I can also remove the BattleNet, and will if it is too much. However, the purpose of these functions was not to make me unstopable, but to add character to style of play, and diversity to the style of combat observed on NS.

United Elias - Here is some details of WDC. Let me know what kind of info you are looking for.

The command structure of Wolfish Defense Command is a typical (though basic) military structure.

WDC is basically the Supreme Command organization.

Under it is Army, Marine, Airforce and Navy.

Each division has its own command structure, which reports into WDC.

WDC is located in downtown Wolfish (city) - across the lake from the capital building.

The "war room" (where most of the meetings etc will take place for this RP) is in the 10th level underground.

It is connected by tunnels to all the main building in Wolfish. It is also linked to the emergency light-rail system, which connects to a bunker located some 200 km from the city. It is a major complex that is able to withstand a direct (light) nuclear strike.

The war room is a bit of a misnomer. It is a seriers of secure rooms and offices - set up to allow command staff from all branchs to work in proximity during a crisis. Blackstone and all the general staff would have their own offices and staff there.

The actual war room is a large conference room / facility with sat. links, big screen TVs - communications equipment etc.

Security - Wolfish Praetorian Guards are responsible for security in WDC. They are fearless and loyal only to Blackstone and their CO.

Every room and area is scanned - minimum - once a day for bugs. Radom patrols - contant electronic transmission detection - biometric scans for access to sensitive areas etc are some of the typical measures employed.

Let me know if you need any other details.

W.

sure hatch give em shit thanks for understanding all I will get up to date asap.

LOSAT was cancelled due to technical problems-it's nowhere near issue at this time (It only worked under the contractors controlled conditions).
Could you link me to that? Last I had seen (2003), it was intended to go to the 82nd Airborne. The project was cancelled, twice actually. At first, the end of the Cold War, and it was removed from Bradley planning. Then, it was to placed on the Buford, but Bosnia costs cancelled the Buford, and the LOSAT was dropped. It was brought back again as a HMMWV only program.

Sweden, Russia, and China also have LOSAT-type missiles in developement.

:cry: sorry, I don't have that link-I remember overhearing it when I was stationed at...a missile base in the U.S. that tests such things. This was several years ago, (after the first Cancellation)-some of the guys who were giving it the initial field-tests were talking about it. (this'd be around 1993 if you're interested...)


On HyStrike
I know HyStrike is still in testing (flight test this May, coming around), but I figured that since it is merely the combination of modern technologies, it would not be out of the question. What it gains is arrival time and penetration, it loses in explosive load.


So, they revived the programme after all... wonders never cease.
I wonder who got the bribe this time.


On BattleNet
The level of sophistication lowers at each rung of command. To the individual squad members, they are only given data, such as position and status of others, and the system automatically tracks their progress. At squad level, more features for coordination and support are added. At battalion level, there is complete integration of fire support.

The units are all tied to supercomputers back on Isis and Osiris military installations. If a unit is MIA/KIA, that assigned BattleNet system will no longer jack into the network, and any attempts to reconnect without proper query/response (decided by centralized units) will result in destruction of the contacting system. Any node stolen or missing is immeadiately deactivated, and it's location traced.


The problem isn't with a "Live" system, it's with the enemy getting hold of samples of the tech. No force is immune to
A) Traitors.
(John Walker sold out the keys to the KY-57's and we were still using them because of cost...)
B)mistakes. (Kid drops a part, or gets lost and captured.) Tracing the location won't do you much good if it's in the middle of that enemy Corps that's on the beach about where you already knew it was.


As for training, I field one of the smallest militaries on NS, running at a wartime high of 1% of my population (as opposed to the OMGZ NOES 5% and up that is commonly seen). Because of this smaller size, each soldier is given highly intensive and advanced training, to put out a smart, powerful force. This then changes the doctrine of combat for my nation to that of high speed strike and fade, as well as shock tactics. I felt this would make a nice change from grindingly huge wave assaults so commonly made, and play as a good change in pace.


There's a problem here, then- you're running a "Small" force, with 1% of your population in uniformed service, I assume you're running an "American" 20 Support to 1 Combatant ratio? If your Logistical structure's set up for a tiny military, that means your ammo is going to be hyper-expensive and replacement parts are going to be hard to come-by.
If the Enemy (Wolfish and Hatch) decide to counterstrike on your home-ground while your troops are conducting operations...
You don't have much of a "Pad" of Reserve forces, and the costs of logistics are going to be a real problem.
(The RL U.S. tends to run about 1.3% uniformed services in active duty during "Stressfull" times-but we keep a big pool of reserves ready to call up, and a decent quantity of supplies to arm them with...) And, Again, Training matters, but there's only so far you can go in training.


(As a way of thinking, if any of you are Command and Conquer: Generals people, most NS plays "Chinese" style, while I play "USA" style.)


No, most NS Players play "Munchkin Style"- they don't supply their army, they post ridiculous levels of training without backing it up plausibly, and they run the highest tech they can afford to run (or con the other players into letting them use...) With mass-formations and NOOKS.

You're at least making an effort to justify the high-level training and high-end tech by using small forces...


I can remove these systems if the RP demands it, but it really cuts my options for writing back down to the "normal" fighting methods employed, as I will have to field an army to fight the armies I'll be facing, and one designed the same. I'm not trying to sound snippy, and I appreciate the feedback.

I'd just suggest you find cheaper, more reliable ways to do the same thing or fill the same roles.



If LOSAT really was gutted for tech problems, I'll pull it from this RP. Likewise, I have no problem with reducing the Millenium Gun to a Goalkeeper, or the HyStrike to a Tomawk, or the LOSAT to a TOW, or stripping the Needler completely away and sticking in the MP7 or P90. I can also remove the BattleNet, and will if it is too much. However, the purpose of these functions was not to make me unstopable, but to add character to style of play, and diversity to the style of combat observed on NS.

Actually, if they've revived LOSAT and HyStrike, I'd suggest you use 'em-but don't go with the "Advertising Numbers" used in DoD press-releases and Contractor's Pitch-books.

A Kinetic-Kill ATM would be optically sighted, and fire a lot more like a gun-forget "Guidance" and use line-straight trajectories at blinding speed, then adjust your tactics to maximize it against more conventional opponents. A lot of these systems should have their "Own" tactical book-one that doesn't resemble how others do things.

the Needlers aren't a good infantry weapon-they're a Neat Idea, but they aren't durable enough for the dirt and muck of a battlefield-too many working bits, too many things that have to be just-right. Re-do that bit to make a more robust and less adjustment-sensitive weapon with more rubustness and a wider recipe of applications than just throwing hypervelocity needle-slugs. One of the reasons that the Bayonet has remained in the inventory of virtually every major army, is that it works when it's dirty, when it's clean, you can bang it around and it works, it doesn't require batteries, ammunition, or fuel.
The Needlers are a Neat Idea for a Spec-Forces weapon-limited engagements at reliable ranges in the hands of "Elites" whose missions are very short-term. Armies are for taking and holding ground, Special Forces are for strike-and-fade disruption missions where avoiding contact is often more important than winning confrontations. In the hands of genuine "ELite Commandoes", Needlers make a great primary based on things like weight, penetration, and surprise factor.
they don't make good infantry primaries, though-the cost of production is high, the maintenance costs in man-hours aren't good, and the durability is not there.

I'd suggest just "Downscaling" the Battlenet system to something slightly less advanced, more durable, and easier to handle. Tracking every single member of a squad electronically is a dangerous and complicated task, radio-ranges, ECM, and terrain/atmospheric conditions make the net you've revealed vulnerable to too many random factors- a low-tech enemy who can build sensitive Recievers and direction-finders (something possible since 1940) can pinpoint your guys using your systems-because a carrier-wave is a carrier-wave, and there's a limit to the wavelength a man can carry for a transmitter.
All the other side needs to know is that it's out there, and they can tune their fuzzbuster in and bang-your stealthy approach is toast, and they don't even need to be reading your mail.
The tactics to employ this need to be worked out, and the weaknesses need to be compensated for, before you risk a limited and hard-to-replace asset such as a small army to tech like that.

Nuevo Kowloon, thanks for the feedback. Normally, I play a more advanced tech level, so the BattleNet thing isn't so much of a problem (it even includes the OMGZ AI!11!! :D ). For this RP, I'll scale it back to a "fire control system" and put it on division level instead of squad. SpecForces will still use it for such purposes, but general army will be more down to earth (radios, GPS, and a pair of binocs).

You'll find, through RPing with me, that I try to play fair, and I won't be using the obviously overstated manufactures numbers on LOSAT and HyStrike. Basically, I'll figure that LOSAT will require LOS, have limitted accuracy, and that the HMMWVs will have about a 3 to 1 loss in a head to head fight with MBTs. This way, it's a way to deliver heavy firepower rapidly, but it cannot stand up to good counterbattery fire. My primary tactics here would involve the HMMWVs popping into LOS, volleying, and falling back at high speed to reload and repeat.

HyStrike, similarly, will not be used as a OMGZ gun, but rather as a rapid response missile. I do not utilitze the air version, but will Sub or Surface launch it. What it gains is use against hardened bunkers, it loses against open forces. It only carries a 700lbs warhead. Also, I can figure in some guidance failure from this "new" flex-joint (as this is a modern RP).

I also probably mislead you with my 1%. With my numbers: I do have compulsory service, but it is rotated through. I do keep reserves in addition to that, and I could call up a militia from former military, but we don't wish to do that unless invaded (as happened once). I do run a high logistics ratio, and my intelligence is very prioritized (if the RP hasn't shown that already).

The Needlers are, as you stated, special purpose weapons. My normal army utilizes the M-8 Carbine and the M-16A4 assault rifle, as well as the SAW and various other "normal" weapons. Most HMMWVs come with the M240 or the GMG. The Needlers are favored by Airborne units for their light weight and high fire and other Special Forces for their ability to deliver rapid and heavy firepower without slowing the unit down. The N.01 PDW is not intended to replace the rifle or carbine, but to allow versatility. Likewise, the NMG-1 (vehicular, cooled version) is found less often than the standard M240, and primarily among strike units.

I hope that this works things out, don't be afraid to give more comments. I'm just trying to get the kinks out of my forces before they enter a situation. (If you can't tell, I'm trying to work about a 2050 Army into a 2005 setting. :wink: )

Lets try and go a bit slower there Wolfish! :wink:

Some of us have a colour coding fetish to deal with when we post.

GEC

Edit: Late night and bad spelling abound.

Hey, Guiness, I referenced an "agent" in your country. I was wondering if I could expand upon that. My idea would be to have him in the city, masquerading as a detective. Would that work? If so, could you give me details?

If this is allowed, what evidence am I "allowed" to find, what am I encouraged to find, and what should I not find. (This is for GEC and Wolfish both. Also, I assume Hatch would have other agents in country, whom I may run into.)

Hey, Guiness, I referenced an "agent" in your country. I was wondering if I could expand upon that. My idea would be to have him in the city, masquerading as a detective. Would that work? If so, could you give me details?

If this is allowed, what evidence am I "allowed" to find, what am I encouraged to find, and what should I not find. (This is for GEC and Wolfish both. Also, I assume Hatch would have other agents in country, whom I may run into.)

Kauk,

That might be a bit of a problem. My nation is pretty intel intensive at the expense of our military force. I have no problem with you having an agent working inside but I would consider something rather than a detective.

Our municipal police forces are all GEC natives and we pretty much bar code people upon entry into school (a univeristy degree is prerequisit for almost all jobs). My suggestion would be to have the agent married to one of our Tourist Bureau employees, that would explain why you have an agent living in GEC as well as being able to avoid the first round of expulsions and detentions we have begun implementing.

Unless I know otherwise, Wolfish agents have left our nation. I have no current knowledge of what Hatch is planning to do.

As for evidence, expect to find almost everything linking EP to the crime. Note I said almost. Certain materials were removed from the scene and some witnesses have disappeared completely.

You are going to have to ask Wolfish to clarify on this but for me as long as you don't stait you suddenly have fifty agents in our country and you have infiltrated the highest levels then I will go along with this until the next big sweep. We can work out something then.

Thanks for asking,

GEC

My idea was more one field agent and one team (3 guys) that's only purpose is to extract the field agent, not to spy. But, that's pretty tight security nets. I'll wait for feedback from Wolfish on what I could know, especially since you have it locked down.

I have no current knowledge of what Hatch is planning to do.


Well, nothing terribly substantive until EP returns. Was wondering, though, if the Royal Surgeon might be allowed to take up station at your hospital? Seems only appropriate that Celeste's personal doctor ought to at least make the effort to look in on her patient... I won't have her (the Dr.) do anything, I'd just like to acknowledge in a domestic sitrep post that she's there, assuming you're willing.

H

Hatch,

I have no problem with your doctor being there to oversee the treatment of the Queen. She will be assigned a personal assistant to help get her anything she needs.

GEC

bump

Not sure if we need to bump this or not, NK. I'm working on a post now; I think Wolfish will be posting tomorrow. GEC is waiting on my post, as I asked him to and he's a thoughtful chap. I suspect things will pick up once EP returns on Sunday.

I didn't get a chance to post - spent some time in RL this weekend. I'll post tomorrow.


I have a new idea on how the NS community will turn on me. Currently two nations have active spies in Wolfish - I'm going to allow them to eventually find out the real reasons for the invasion of EP.

I think it should add a nice twist.

Cheers,
W.

sorry guys bad weather in Cape Breton, I was stranded in NS for a day. I'll post ASAP.

sorry guys bad weather in Cape Breton, I was stranded in NS for a day. I'll post ASAP.

Its all good.


TO ALL: I've posted an extensive bit (actually following EP's post). I've come up with a bit of an addition to the plot - the frigate that sank - I'm going to have it seem to the world that the ship was hit by an EP grain freighter heading to Wolfish. This will involved newscasts and reports etc. So don't RP your gov't knowing the "whole" story yet. The story will change. For now you might know that a Wolfish ship went down that's it.

EP you okay with that?

sure but are you going to damage one of my freighters to do it? Just asking because with no private enterprise in my country the freighter would be a gov ship and I'd know what'd happened to it, or better where it was when it lost the uplink not so much why it lost it.

sure but are you going to damage one of my freighters to do it? Just asking because with no private enterprise in my country the freighter would be a gov ship and I'd know what'd happened to it, or better where it was when it lost the uplink not so much why it lost it.

EP:

Wolfish asked me to tell you that his plan - if you approve - is to sink it with a torpedo or three - while jamming transmissions (aircraft). Then create a story about trying to board it and the Captain swore he'd never be boarded etc.

Welcome home, by the way!
Hatch

sure but are you going to damage one of my freighters to do it? Just asking because with no private enterprise in my country the freighter would be a gov ship and I'd know what'd happened to it, or better where it was when it lost the uplink not so much why it lost it.

EP:

Wolfish asked me to tell you that his plan - if you approve - is to sink it with a torpedo or three - while jamming transmissions (aircraft). Then create a story about trying to board it and the Captain swore he'd never be boarded etc.

Welcome home, by the way!
Hatch

This would be alright but really easy for me to prove one way or the other. A while back when Cav was handing out money like candy I got some and spent a good majority of it on survalence satelites and what have you. I RPed it out about how I had so many sateliates and their resolutions and how they are geo syncronous so I wouldn't really have to worry too too much about passes etc.

What I'm getting at it with the ship being F*up I could go back and find satelite record of what happened I'd just have to find it. (I'm currently observeing the entire planet but don't have the resources to make sense of it. While certain hot spots are watched for up to the minute info other areas, like the middle of the pacific ocean, have no one watching the feed. 98% of the information gathered by these satelites is archived and never looked at.)

So I'd have to trace the freighter from port along it's path at the different time indexs etc. So it would take some time but I'd have proof to the internationale community that there was no collision. Which could be a good thing. I could let the story advance some what and then whip it out, you know when we're all turning on Wolfish.

However if Wolfish wanted to disrupt the signal (located in a suburb of Patriot City)
-by getting his team on the ground to rpg the dish (messy and would result in martial law being declared in the city as there are no guns in my country)
-use a transmitter to send garbage at the dish (this would F* it up for awhile but there are safe gaurds to compensate but it would not be in time to catch the incident with the ship. This would be unfortunate but assumed to be a flaw and some maintainence would be sceduled, no real repercussions to Wolfish)
-send a fake signal using his own satelite and try to impose an image of the collison on over the actual signal
-guide one of his sateliates into mine and say oops
-fire an ICBM at my satelaite.

Sorry I'm very frazzeled still, hope that made sense. and thanks for the welcome back

Here are my thoughts:

1. I don't want to knock a sat. out of operation. Its too James Bond - future-tech for this RP (or at least it opens the door for that).

2. I do think its a good way to get the shooting started.

So - what if Wolfish comes out with a statement condemning the EP gov't for the grain shipments - then, shortly after, announce that the frigate was rammed.

At the same time announce airstrikes against "select military targets" in EP - one of those targets would of course be your satellite transmission bases and the facility where you store the information.

3. Later in the RP you can "discover" the original sat. feed - intact - in the rubble of the building.

4. This material, can be put together with info one of the spies in Wolfish collects to turn the world against W.

Thoughts?

Two in a row - someone say something...

Anyway - Shang-Ti - an excellent student at RPU is going to join the Coalition (have you guys come up with a better name yet?). A young nation who has suggested a role as operating conveys and protection of same.

I'll add Shang-Ti to the first page.

Cheers,
W.

Here are my thoughts:

1. I don't want to knock a sat. out of operation. Its too James Bond - future-tech for this RP (or at least it opens the door for that).

2. I do think its a good way to get the shooting started.

So - what if Wolfish comes out with a statement condemning the EP gov't for the grain shipments - then, shortly after, announce that the frigate was rammed.

At the same time announce airstrikes against "select military targets" in EP - one of those targets would of course be your satellite transmission bases and the facility where you store the information.

3. Later in the RP you can "discover" the original sat. feed - intact - in the rubble of the building.

4. This material, can be put together with info one of the spies in Wolfish collects to turn the world against W.

Thoughts?

sorry for the delay in response for some reason first time I read this I didn't see a question. (oops)


1) That's your call but happy news to me cause it's easier to rebuild ground then space

2) & 3) & 4) Let me get the approx time line

-condemnation
-mass mobilization
-point to freighter ramming as firestarter
-You fly a B-2 or equivelent and drop a cluster bomb or mirv on the building. Something that would allow the records to survive because anything like a sabot round or emp would destroy it utterly. (It's basicly dry wall girders and a big dish)
-fight fight fight
-international community starts to turn
-bombing stops long enough for me to check some rubble, I find the sateliate records (maybe it was something that the staff was working on and that's why it was so easy to find.)
-I announce your deceit
-World kicks you in groin

If that sounds about right I have no problems thus far.

I like how this is shaping up so far,...

Excellent.

Just FYI - the condemnation and primary attack will take place at the same time.

For the purpose of this sequence, we need to assume hours rather than days have passed since the frigate went down. I'm sure you all understand that sometime RL delays the action.

Also - for the purpose of this RP - I won't be using EMP weapons. I don't believe that current tech would allow deployment of these - they are still pretty much "in the lab" technologies.

I'll post soon.

Also - for the purpose of this RP - I won't be using EMP weapons. I don't believe that current tech would allow deployment of these - they are still pretty much "in the lab" technologies.


Actually, I believe that the facility in Nevada has a working, tunable prototype.

However, it is your RP, so you get to make the rules.


TEO

Excellent.

Just FYI - the condemnation and primary attack will take place at the same time.

For the purpose of this sequence, we need to assume hours rather than days have passed since the frigate went down. I'm sure you all understand that sometime RL delays the action.

Also - for the purpose of this RP - I won't be using EMP weapons. I don't believe that current tech would allow deployment of these - they are still pretty much "in the lab" technologies.

I'll post soon.

Hi all,

Thanks, Wolfish, for letting me join in your merry reindeer games.

Maybe something to solidify the "condemnation" of EP for your frigate sinking would be to bring in one of my supply convoys approx. 50km off Wolfish waters. The sinking of my frigate escorts and "disappearance" of my various cargo/container vessels might look awfully coincidental to the sinking of your frigate.

Of course, my President Dao would ask for help from Wolfish to find the "culprit" in this dastardly deed, as my vessels would be close to your waters. Follow the same script as above, with EP finding the satellite evidence that one of yours (sub, cruiser, whatever) took out my convoy. The evidence finding could be even later, to give to time diplomatically and militarily against EP.

Being mistaken about an EP cargo vessel ramming a Wolfish frigate is one thing, and could be played down diplomatically as a mistake in intelligence. Finding hard evidence of an attack on Shang-Ti vessels would be a completely different thing.

Your thoughts?

ST.

I'll be doing a tit for tat thing to your embassy hatch but I am so hung over the screen is moving so,... tommorrow

I'll be doing a tit for tat thing to your embassy hatch but I am so hung over the screen is moving so,... tommorrow
No problem. Just so you know, I have no plan to harm anyone in your embassy, just make life inconvenient for a little while. If you want to add in a request to send a plane for non-essential personnel, you're more than welcome to do so and I'll honor that.
Best,
Hatch

Welcome to The Desolation of Wolfish - Part 2: First Blood

Spies active in Wolfish Defense Command - you will note a huge increase in activity - Senior level officers are flying in for meetings, and leaving just as quickly. Blackstone hardly sleeps - and when he does it is in his private offices.

The mess hall has been ordered to remain open 24-7.

Should you be lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time (to see in the War Room) you'd see news feeds from around the world, and an electronic map of the Pacific Region on the massive centre TV screen in the centre all of the room.

Security level in Wolfish Defense Command is very high. Guard, who previously only had sidearm, are now carrying carbines. Door previously left unlocked are now guarded.

Regular staff meetings have been replaced by three-times-a-day briefings for senior General Staff, including Blackstone.

Non-smoking regulations are ignored in all departments.

If you'd like something more - make a suggestion.

Shang-Ti - sorry - it was getting a bit complicated - so I had to go with what I'd already figured out.

Cheers,
W.

EP - when you post can you detail the defenses around the bases at PowerPoint and North Point.

Thanks.

EP - when you post can you detail the defenses around the bases at PowerPoint and North Point.

Thanks.

Ditto for North Point, Roscow, and Waterway, please!
Many thanks,
Hatch

To all involved “coalition” nations:

This RP was first announced on February 24, and is now moving nearer to the point at which your involvement will begin to emerge. Your patience has been wonderful. Wolfish, and I, would like to confirm that the follow countries still wish to participate. Please respond in this thread with a “yea” or “nay”.

Many thanks!
Hatch

Empassioned People
Hogsweat
Savaliana
Arenumberg
Midlonia
Umojan
Ozymandias
Shang-Ti
Shinoxia
Dancing Moose
Rotovia
Nailiak
Transnapastain
Roberticus
Wazican
New Empire
Wert

<DP, apologies>

I'm still keeping an eye on it and I think I was going to occasionally keep an IC eye on things too...

Not that we were going to get involved (IC), we have more important things to do but we will keep an eye on it.

Okay list of defenses for asked targets.

Northpoint and power point (they're sister cities): each city has alot of SAM site patriots and patriot based technology. Nothing insane some of them are made to shoot down missiles some for planes they are all networked to avoid redundant fire and to confuse enemy planes that yes they are painted but which site did it?

There are about 20 site across each city past that they're defenseless

SW of the North point is a (and SE of Power Point) completely isolated is a millatary base. The base has a plethera of patriot sites and large artilary pieces. These patriots sites are desiegned for a ballistic firing arc for ground targets or a direct fire for air targets.
base complement (each): 75 patriot sites
20 apaches
500 A-10 thunderbolts
2 B-2 bombers
15 F15-Es
(These two bases comprise the good majority of my forces and apon losing them there is no way in hell I could even stand up to a week old nation)

Interesting notes: Both cities are deep water ports and have many docks. Powerpoint has 2 very large nuclear powerplants (and one in North Point)

Powerpoint has alot of older buildings and holds alot of cultural signifagance to my people. (Power point was actually named because it was the seat of power for the old monarchy not because of it's power generation facillities.)

Roscow: is defenseless and the only milatary target is the large armed forces building which is a paperpushing and distribution office.

It has alot of deep mines

It also contains the supreme court, which is the pinacle of the law in my country. (Although my soceity is not based on rule of law but rather rule of the party leader)

Waterway: defenseless totally and there is no prescence of armed forces. It does contain alot of hydro electric power generators FYI you will cause a massive humanatarian crisis if and when you crack open the dams, millions will lose their homes and the dowtown area will be submerged

Alright I think that's it.

Hatch I will need to know ## and specific targets of your cruise missles.

Yay.

EDIT: This is Roberticus, sorry I am one of my puppets and I forgot to log in Roberticus.

Hatch I will need to know ## and specific targets of your cruise missles.

Thanks very much for the detailed info, EP. Missile specifics are as follows:

16 targetted at the base SW of North Point, specifically directed at command and control structures and at hangars.

2 targetted at the armed forces building in Roscow.

6 targetted at SAM and Patriot sites in North Point (assuming they exist).

Best,
Hatch

(I've no interest in flooding out millions of citizens, or in cracking open a nuclear power plant!)

Hogsweat - Jesus. It takes some time to move that number of troops - the logistics are huge. Plus - please recall that the main conflict is in Wolfish - not EP. Please consider editing.

EVERYONE: This is the point where you should really start to take note - and alarm - at the situation. You can begin to work out whose side you're on - and evidence will LEAK out helping you decide.

For now - speeches - meetings - briefings and the like. Not dispatching half a million men.

W.

I had a somewhat short meeting, and now there's a Recce flight on the way. Hatch, it's close to you.

EP:
I'm a little confused, I'm relying on you to help me out. Wolfish fired first on you, from the B-2 and with tomahawks, and I followed up with a salvo of tomahawks. You were quite generous in your declarations of loss, but you seem to have reversed the sequence of their arrival. I'm not sure how critical this is, except perhaps in terms of recovering planes, but I wanted to at least point it out.

You managed to get 800 odd A-10's off the ground, and get them into dual formations of 500 and 300+. Are they carrying drop tanks, or are they armed? I ask because I honestly had no idea my fleet, or Wolfish's, was within their range. I had assumed I was still off Niue, which is why I sent only missiles; nothing else would reach, unless you consider yourself to be within 350 miles or so of Niue.

I appreciate your clarification, and I'm grateful for your wilingness to be the early "fall guy"!
Best,
Hatch

New Empire, thanks for the heads-up. Since we're not yet in conflict, I see no issue so long as you don't directly overfly the fleet.

We're already sort of hostile to you... The Geist will come within 60 miles, and then open the bomb bay to drop a pair of USV Recon Drones, and do some recce on your fleets, then turn around and scoot. When it opens the bay, it'll be really visible on radar.

We're already sort of hostile to you...

I'm not sure how you would be, unless it's something OOC of which I'm not aware. IC, hostilities have barely broken out and are unlikely to have been made public. From what would hostilities emanate?

Perplexedly,
Hatch

I've been supplying TEP with the freighters... The current administration is leaning more towards TEP because of failure of Wolfish to attempt to communicate with TEP and such.

Due to my being slightly lazy, and other pressing issues in my life, i regret to infrom you all that i may not be participating in this wonderful RP afterall, i MAY be back, and i promise to read everything before i do anything, but i honestly dont think ill be able to continue, good luck to you all

500 A-10 thunderbolts

Had a talk with some of the guys on IRC tonight because we weren't shore that that many A-10's exist in the world today...

So I feel it would be wise to reduce your amount of A-10's, they are pretty robust planes so I doubt a little reduction can harm you...

If you want a second opinion I can ask TEO who knows more about this then I do... I'm not too good with planes and I only have a basic grasp of the figures. I didn't notice until someone pointed it out to me.

okay first I'd like to say oops because yes the sequence of bombing is out of order and I only noticed after my 2nd post, but I figured that you guys were co ordinating the attack and the window was fairly small so I let it slide as oops note for future refence.

Okay as for the planes themsleves I can reduce the number that came out of north point (since those were the only hangers fired on) if that's what you guys want. because technically had I not (for what ever reason I dunno, it's been my B-day and saint patty's here so I'm not exactly straight in the head, regardless) reversed the firing order more hangers would've been nailed by Hatch's missiles.

As for range I was under the impression that the range of the A-10 was 800 miles and 1 200 with the fuel tanks mod rather than the extra weapons. If your fleets are further away then 1200 miles I apologize I didn't see that and I can edit.

As for there not being many A-10s your right about that but god knows whay. They are some of the beastiest multi role aircraft I've ever seen. Just the sheer amount of dumbfire rockets alone they can fire is fricken amazing. I bought them from Credonia so I dunno. (I looked at price, pocket book and what I can do with them)

Those 2 millatary bases you guys hit are where all my forces are pretty much. (less a few apaches, non combat millatary vehicles, A-10s and the stuff I moved out of country before this whole mess started :D ) I assume the fleet you guys have amassed can take this, I mean I don't want to bend over and say insert here, I want to make it look like a fight. Once you guys take this hit I have no offensive capabilities to speak of and only static Def left. I'm 100% your after that. (FYI no tanks are owned by my country the heaviest thing we have is a Humvee)

Thoughts?

I'm okay with that - but consider...

If the range is 1200 miles (1931 km) for the A10 with extra tanks - then I'm in range - I figure I'm about 800 km off shore from Power Point. You won't have a lot of time to linger or dogfight - but you can hit me.

Its not going to be pretty - I have Taskforce Alfa in theatre. It is designed for hard-core shore and air offensive capabilities. It includes:

TASKFORCE ALFA

1 ACC – Nimitz Class
3 Howl-Class GM Cruisers
4 Aegis Destroyers
4 Mako Frigate
3 BB-61 Battleships
4 Arsenal Ships
3 SeaWolf Attack Sub

Can we also establish the distance from Niue to EP - I'm suggesting some 2000 km.

Perhaps I'm woefully ignorant, feel free to point it out if I am... When we talk about range, we're not talking Distance/2 are we? If the range of a given aircraft is 1000km, does that mean the plane can fly 500 km to the target and 500 km back, or does it mean 1000km straight-line, plus the return flight, for an actual stright-line range of 2000km?

Best,
Hatch

I think range refers to how far it can go before it has to go back to refuel, though I'm not certain, it just what I've always assumed.

I agree, the A-10 is pretty lethal to whatever it comes across, however it's not really designed to take on other planes, it has the equipement to do so but they only fight other Fighter craft if they are desperate...

Otherwise it's like a flying tank. I think most nations don't have too many of them because they prefer using dedicated bombers or fighters, not something which can do both. However it's a damn fine craft...

Also forgot to say, "Happy Birthday EP".

thank you thank you.

As for the battle not being pretty I pretty much figured I could do some damage to the ships because the A-10s have orders to fire on ships and to run as soon as payload is away. The F-15s are the are interceptors and the B-2s are carring Mavericks and other fire and forget missiles to hit above and below the armour belt. (I'm expecting somer where near total losses of A-10s for me, with the B-2s and say 1/3 of the F-15s escaping and maybe I dunno 4 aegis cruisers and a battle ship lost for you? Fair yes no thoughts? [the battle ship would be lost to the B-2s putting some strategiclly placed shots in on it])

Give me your thoughts on that I haven't done large scale war RP before. I want this to be a slaughter of my forces but I don't want to feel too impotent.

And range is assumed that they can get out linger for tiny bits (small dogfight) and make it back.

P.S. when you guys attack Patriot City in force I am going to telegram the following ppl (because they have embassies there, you may want to avoid them) and tell them that I can no longer garuntee their protection.

The Soviet Socialist Republic of Hattia
The Republic of Austar Union
The People’s Republic of Kazakhstania
The Empire of Credonia
The Honourable people of Aust
The Enlightened Free Empire of Wolfish
The Hatchling Hatchery of Hatchibombitar

That works for me. You should also start gathering support (from the list up front).

Making these nations aware of your case is the first thing you'd be doing in a situation like this.

THEY should begin debating the merits of becoming involved - give speeches, send letters to both parties and the like.

I should be able to post today with my strike against the incoming horde.

I've posted my defense to your air attack. You'll note I didn't post the total number of Wolfish missiles fired - that is to allow you to shoot down some of the jets before they get that chance. I've used both long and medium range missiles - so depending on what your guys are packing - the first flight of missiles may hit before you are in range.

Cheers,
W.

I've posted as well. Thus far I've launched only Sparrows at the A-10's, I thought EP might like to initiate the F-15 engagement(s) himself.

On an ancillary note, I will be out of town until Monday morning. Please try not to completely destroy my fleet and airplanes while I'm gone.

Best,
Hatch

Spies - Please note: While Blackstone was in Camden for the broadcast taping, two Command-level officers were heard arguing in the officers mess.

Lt Commander 1: "I don't care what you say - Give it two weeks and the Wolfish flag will be over Patriot City. And less than 200 KIA."

Lt Commander 2: "You're full of crap. I heard that if we can't take a harbour intact - we've got no decent way to land those troops - they've got to land at PowerPoint - or we'll be too close to the population centres - then we get into hit-and-run attacks dogging us all the way to the capital. I say we can't do it in less than a month - and we'll lose 5 per cent. I've seen the projections - its not going to be pretty."

The two then realized they were talking too loudly, and went about eating their meals, then sulking off to the War Room.

That works for me. You should also start gathering support (from the list up front).

Making these nations aware of your case is the first thing you'd be doing in a situation like this.

THEY should begin debating the merits of becoming involved - give speeches, send letters to both parties and the like.

I should be able to post today with my strike against the incoming horde.

Credonia's going on vacation, and I'm in the middle of an RP that should be keeping Aust busy for a while-they've got a Coup going on and its disrupted several nations outside the region, as well as their Region itself.

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=133416&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=133093&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40

Where it started: (link goes to page three, you'll actually want to read from page one)
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2892237#2892237

So, I don't think Credonia or Aust are going to be doing much for Empassioned Peoples.

(Oh, Wolfish-I've been practicing with the art of Propoganda and coalition-breaking, along with Telegrammes, etc. per your excellent instructions in the RPU thread... when this is finished, I'll post the homework.)

I'm back, and eager to resume the fray. EP, will you be posting soon? Coalition members, where are you?????

Best,
Hatch

edit.

I'm back, and eager to resume the fray. EP, will you be posting soon? Coalition members, where are you?????

Best,
Hatch

Well, here's where I'm at... I'm pretty much waiting for EP to find that satellite loop of the frigate sinking and broadcasting it to the world (or sneaking the tape out to friendly shores, depending on their infrastructure damage). I don't have an embassy for EP to call on, nor do I have any direct contacts with Wolfish or Hatch... so, right now it's a hurry-up-and-wait.

I do have some units in the area, though, as I alluded to in my post:

CONVOY ESCORT GROUP 2
N-CEG 2: Exodus
(2) Prowler Class FFG
(1) Hunter Class FF

CONVOY ESCORT GROUP 3
N-CEG 3: Leviticus
(2) Prowler Class FFG
(1) Hunter Class FF

CONVOY ESCORT GROUP 6
N-CEG 6: Corinthians
(2) Prowler Class FFG
(1) Hunter Class FF

Each group is escorting 8-10 cargo vessels of civilian and military import/export. N-CEG 3 is what radioed in their report of military build-up of Wolfish and Hatch forces, and are about 200 km from EP waters in their standard trade route.

I'll also have a sub group in the area within an NS week doing some recon, as well as extra protection for the convoy groups:

SUBMARINE GROUP 2
N-UG 2: Neptune
( 8 ) Wraith Class SSN Nuclear Submarine
Designations are: Neptune SSN 021, 022, 023, …

I can assign more units to the area once there's an official word from "Coalition" leaders for support. BTW, how about something other than coalition, like... alliance, union, league, association...?

okay before bed tonight I'm going to make a post about the battle. I'm gonna give it a bit o wait then the sateliate data will be found. Telegrams to the countries with embassies are not going to happen until foriegn soliders hit my soil.

As for the attack I'm assuming 2 seperate attacks 1 on Hatch one on wolfish. Unless your guys fleets are stradeling in which case I hope you post soon to tell me other wise. talk to you in a few hours

As for the attack I'm assuming 2 seperate attacks 1 on Hatch one on wolfish. Unless your guys fleets are stradeling in which case I hope you post soon to tell me other wise.

I assumed you were launching separate attacks. My perception is that our fleets are close together, but that does not preclude separate attacks by you, as I see it. I look forward to your post!
Best,
Hatch

Okay close fleets good so it'll be a flanking maneuver then. Hatch you'll be taking some damage too then. Not nessacarilly loss of ships but you'll be loseing men as the planes are ordered to go for ships.

Damn, I hafta say that I hafta bail out on this RP. I am sorry, and I wished that I didn't hafta, but I hafta. :D Maybe some other time.

I've updated my website to reflect the loss of four more ships - one each, frigate, destroyer, cruiser and battleship.

www.freewebs.com/wolfish/

We now have openings for two more nations with a combined population of less than a billion to join the conflict. If anyone knows qualified RPers that they would like to invite to fight against Hatch and me - please have them post here. The first two that show up, and have proven writing abilities will be accepted.

Argyllia is very intrested in being involved in such a wonderful RP, what would be required of me in the RP and what role do you wish for me to take.

Argyllia is very intrested in being involved in such a wonderful RP, what would be required of me in the RP and what role do you wish for me to take.

Argyllia - Welcome to the Desolation of Wolfish.

The link to the ic thread is in the first post of this thread.

Basically the story to this point is that Wolfish has suffered a major economic crisis.

The President was overthrown in a secret military coup.

The military decided that the best way to get out of this mess was to create a focus for the people - to show the world the strength of Wolfish (a poor economic theory).

Empassioned Peoples was selected as the target of our fury - and to bring along our ally Hatchibombitar, Wolfish forces attempted to kill Hatch's Queen - and made it look as though Empassioned was to blame.

Wolfish also blamed EP for the sinking of a frigate (it actuallly went down in a storm). And then sunk an EP freighter to cement the claim that it rammed the frigate.

Hatch and Wolfish launched missile strikes against EP military targets - EP responded with a massive air assault against our naval fleets.

EP then released information showing that Wolfish had staged the freighter accident.

Soon an invasion will be set to take place.

At this point - the war is largely between Hatch and Wolfish against EP.

EP has begun to start rallying allies to his cause.

So, at this point you could RP your military briefing your President on the situation - perhaps have your leadership respond to EP - or call for sanctions or such against Wolfish for our aggression.

TG me if you have questions - or post here - but I think that about sums it up.

Cheers,
W.

Hi. I got a TG from Wolfish inviting me to this thread. I've read a few posts in the IC thread, and all of the posts on the OCC thread. My first reaction was, 'yipee! This is what I hoped NS could be!' I have a bit of catch-up to do, but I hope I can contribute to the excellent quality of RP I have seen so far.

Welcome, Tiborita and Argyllia!

Hatch

Hi. I got a TG from Wolfish inviting me to this thread. I've read a few posts in the IC thread, and all of the posts on the OCC thread. My first reaction was, 'yipee! This is what I hoped NS could be!' I have a bit of catch-up to do, but I hope I can contribute to the excellent quality of RP I have seen so far.

Welcome Tiborita. See my above post for a summery of the ic thread - though I suspect you'll still want to read it.

This RP is once again closed.

W.

Okay - I've put together a map of EP to lay out where my forces are (or will shortly be) in relation to EP.

But it's big - so I'm just going to link it.

http://www.freewebs.com/wolfish/epmap.htm


Hatch - I took the liberty of posting your forces on as well.

As this little tiff heats up - I thought a little good-natured ribbing is in order. So with that said...

*drum roll begins*

We are issuing a medal for the best typo found yet in the Desolation of Wolfish...the prize (my undying gratitude for relieving me of a boring day) goes to Tiborita for this gut-buster....

"My analists would concur with that statement," The TIA Director added.

Well done Tiborita. Well done indeed. ;)

Just a quick note that I have replaced my earlier placeholder post in the IC thread with a substantive post, addresssing both EP's air assault and Shang Ti's diplomatic concerns.

Best,
Hatch

PS I will post battlefield prep later this evening, as well.

guys if possible leave the NW of the counrty intact I would like to run this into another RP that is taking shape in my head. (I am not going to let this detract from what I am doing now mind you)

Hmm... Nobody seemed to notice the spy aircraft dropping Drones 60 mi north of the Hatch fleet. Maybe I'll step it up next post.

guys if possible leave the NW of the counrty intact I would like to run this into another RP that is taking shape in my head. (I am not going to let this detract from what I am doing now mind you)

Is that where I just blew up all the coastal defenses? If you still want them...I can edit the location to blasting around Powerpoint. I was just concerned about my ships coming in close to shore with those bunkers intact. Let me know.

W.

Hmm... Nobody seemed to notice the spy aircraft dropping Drones 60 mi north of the Hatch fleet. Maybe I'll step it up next post.

No, I noticed them and then failed miserably to address them; the error is mine. Do you want them left intact or would you like them destroyed, perhaps as a pretext for an escalation of hostilities? Do you even want me aware of them IC? Let me know what you have in mind and I'll write something up.
Best,
Hatch

Actually, that sort of error really happens in RL. Why not leave it as is, perhaps have an Operations technician report to one of the ship's captains that some unidentified aircraft are leaving the area. You can assume that you were too busy dealing with the strikes and counterstrikes to pay attention (which is what really happened, after all).

Just my brace of small copper coins.

TEO

guys if possible leave the NW of the counrty intact I would like to run this into another RP that is taking shape in my head. (I am not going to let this detract from what I am doing now mind you)

Is that where I just blew up all the coastal defenses? If you still want them...I can edit the location to blasting around Powerpoint. I was just concerned about my ships coming in close to shore with those bunkers intact. Let me know.

W.

No no that's fine I just mean the civillian infastructure in Inland port and New Toledo. They're pretty lame cities as is so there's no real reason to bomb them to crap. I don't want you guys to take it easy on me or anything as the more devastated I am the better it'll lead in my next thread.

And rightly so about concern the bunkers have 180mm cannons (remainants of something else)

...a medal for the best typo found yet...
Yipee! I'm a wiener!

ugh. I don't know what's wrong with me. The other day I didn't notice my use of your're was wrong.
*sits in corner* *puts dunce cap on*
__________

I looked through my military and I wanted to clear up any use issues that I may run into down the road, so can I get a ref tech check?

On one Nimitz Class CVN - (I believe all this fits)
-20 F-14D Tomcat
-36 F/A-18E Super Hornet
-6 EA-18G Growlers - (do I need to switch to Prowlers instead?)
-4 KA-18SJ - (do I need to switch to A-6 tankers instead?)
-4 E-2C Hawkeye AWACS
-8 S-3B Viking
-4 SH-60F Seahawk
-2 HH-60H

Sachsen Class (Type F124) frigate (They exist but I don't know if its in the German navy yet)
Type K 130 Corvette - (I don't know if its in the German navy yet)
Leopard 3 - out
Leopard 2A6 EX - (they exist, but still have that new tank smell)
TRIDON Air Defence Gun System - (I'm not sure if these are in use)
F-22s - out
F-35s - out (guess I'll have to borrow my buddies harriers)
JAS 39C/D Gripen - (do I need to dust off my F-16s instead?)
RAH-66 Comanches - (I believe it was said these were OK but I thought I should check. If not I have Kiowa Warriors)
LOSAT - (I believe it was said these were OK in small numbers)
HK G-41s - (I don't think they ever went into production)

oh yeah... and I believe the use of Seawolf class subs was deemed okay.

Actually, that sort of error really happens in RL. Why not leave it as is, perhaps have an Operations technician report to one of the ship's captains that some unidentified aircraft are leaving the area. You can assume that you were too busy dealing with the strikes and counterstrikes to pay attention (which is what really happened, after all).

Just my brace of small copper coins.

TEO

That's a good idea. How about this-

The Geist could be interpreted as a high altitude strike craft, (The stealth isn't working because the bay doors are jammed open), and the Unmanned Submersible Vehicles it dropped to monitor your fleet have the same sonar characteristics and sounds as a torpedo. So you could then interpret it as an attack, and send SAMs and/or fighters after it. After that, you could recover it, accuse us of attacking you and such. And then I have an excuse to fight.

Actually, that sort of error really happens in RL. Why not leave it as is, perhaps have an Operations technician report to one of the ship's captains that some unidentified aircraft are leaving the area. You can assume that you were too busy dealing with the strikes and counterstrikes to pay attention (which is what really happened, after all).

Just my brace of small copper coins.

TEO

That's a good idea. How about this-

The Geist could be interpreted as a high altitude strike craft, (The stealth isn't working because the bay doors are jammed open), and the Unmanned Submersible Vehicles it dropped to monitor your fleet have the same sonar characteristics and sounds as a torpedo. So you could then interpret it as an attack, and send SAMs and/or fighters after it. After that, you could recover it, accuse us of attacking you and such. And then I have an excuse to fight.

Let me throw out one other possibility: How about I send chase aircraft after the Geist. The Geist can develop some kind of trouble, and I can be blamed for a hostile act. That gives you more of a reason to be an aggrieved party than me recovering your submersible. Your thoughts?

Best,
Hatch

Wolfish: Gonna have to bow out at this point-even as an observer.
My nation's got about six NS months before we're extinct-based on seepage to groundwater rates in clay soil and granite, aquifer size, and VX delivered by ICBM.
I don't want to be a Godmodder, so I'll eat the damage, and take the consequences, but Nuevo Kowloon's going away.

Wolfish: Gonna have to bow out at this point-even as an observer.
My nation's got about six NS months before we're extinct-based on seepage to groundwater rates in clay soil and granite, aquifer size, and VX delivered by ICBM.
I don't want to be a Godmodder, so I'll eat the damage, and take the consequences, but Nuevo Kowloon's going away.

Wolfish: Gonna have to bow out at this point-even as an observer.
My nation's got about six NS months before we're extinct-based on seepage to groundwater rates in clay soil and granite, aquifer size, and VX delivered by ICBM.
I don't want to be a Godmodder, so I'll eat the damage, and take the consequences, but Nuevo Kowloon's going away.


Have you considered replacing this nation with a puppet so you can still take part? I'd be fine with that.

Its up to you.

Cheers,
W.

Wolfish & EP -

I have my Convoy Escort Group 3 (CEG-3) about 60 km NE of Portsmouth conducting SAR. Do either of you want me to find and rescue survivors? Wolf, I imagine not in your case, since your TF Alfa was farther NW, but figured I'd ask. EP, how about any returning A-10 pilots who might have ejected?

Wolfish: Gonna have to bow out at this point-even as an observer.
My nation's got about six NS months before we're extinct-based on seepage to groundwater rates in clay soil and granite, aquifer size, and VX delivered by ICBM.
I don't want to be a Godmodder, so I'll eat the damage, and take the consequences, but Nuevo Kowloon's going away.

Wolfish: Gonna have to bow out at this point-even as an observer.
My nation's got about six NS months before we're extinct-based on seepage to groundwater rates in clay soil and granite, aquifer size, and VX delivered by ICBM.
I don't want to be a Godmodder, so I'll eat the damage, and take the consequences, but Nuevo Kowloon's going away.


Have you considered replacing this nation with a puppet so you can still take part? I'd be fine with that.

Its up to you.

Cheers,
W.

I've got one I might be able to use, Storbash-it's about the same age as NK, but a trifle richer. I've been kind of holding it for a while as a backup, and it hasn't been very active.

Wolfish & EP -

I have my Convoy Escort Group 3 (CEG-3) about 60 km NE of Portsmouth conducting SAR. Do either of you want me to find and rescue survivors? Wolf, I imagine not in your case, since your TF Alfa was farther NW, but figured I'd ask. EP, how about any returning A-10 pilots who might have ejected?

Well it really depends on whether or not Wolfish is picking up or machine gunning survivors. They'd be around as all the pilots have basic rations. parachutes and floatation devices.

I have no problem with it but they'd be cold wet and beligernt as you'd be viewed as "another damn foreigner" They'd probably associate you to the attacking fleet until fed something warm and told otherwise. They'll be civil but sucpicous.

And as an aside they'd probably be speaking french (or english depending on which they thought your men wouldn't understand) You will only get answers from squad leaders and the standard name rank and serial from the standard pilots.

Wolfish wouldn't gun down survivors - we are the author of the NS UN Convention on the treatment of prisoners of war after all. lol.

We would pick up those we could as POWs.

As for Wolfish surviviors - you may get a few that we missed - and we would expect to be notified of their location and condition.

W.

Wolfish wouldn't gun down survivors - we are the author of the NS UN Convention on the treatment of prisoners of war after all. lol.


Heh. Too bad Wolfish wasn't the author of the NS UN Convention on the "illegal torpedoing of civilian grain freighters in international waters for the express purpose of framing another nation"...

Since you lost some aircraft in the area also, I might be inclined to find a few Wolfish survivors. I'll be vague on the RP for either EP or Wolfish survivors, so I won't end up RP'ing your people.

Just to toss in a few random numbers ...

It is unlikely that there will be many aircrew very far from the Hatch and Wolfish fleets, since those were the targets. Most of the planes would have been hit over or very near those fleets, and any survivors would most likely be picked up by Wolfish and Hatch. I doubt seriously that either of those nations would consider allowing another fleet from a non-allied nation to get close enough to run an effective SAR mission, anyway.

For those who've never seen one in action, a carrier battlegroup covers a huge amount of ocean- hundreds of square miles. All of those recruiting poster pictures you see of the ships in close proximity are just propaganda pics. In RL, you'd be able to see a few other ships from the deck of one of the carriers ... if it was a clear day. The only exception to this general rule is when ships are engaging in UNREP (underway replenishment), or are posing for recruiting pictures.

A good distance from shore for a battlegroup engaged in shore bombardment is about 100 miles. This allows the carrier aircraft to make full-load bombing runs, keeps the CAP safely away from the air battle over the target, and lets the escorting ships protect the "bird farms" from shore-based aircraft and missiles.

TEO

Argyllia - can you switch those planes on your carriers to F18s - F35s have not yet been invented.

TEO - great advice. Thanks.

W.

Just to toss in a few random numbers ...

It is unlikely that there will be many aircrew very far from the Hatch and Wolfish fleets, since those were the targets. Most of the planes would have been hit over or very near those fleets, and any survivors would most likely be picked up by Wolfish and Hatch. I doubt seriously that either of those nations would consider allowing another fleet from a non-allied nation to get close enough to run an effective SAR mission, anyway.

For those who've never seen one in action, a carrier battlegroup covers a huge amount of ocean- hundreds of square miles. All of those recruiting poster pictures you see of the ships in close proximity are just propaganda pics. In RL, you'd be able to see a few other ships from the deck of one of the carriers ... if it was a clear day. The only exception to this general rule is when ships are engaging in UNREP (underway replenishment), or are posing for recruiting pictures.

A good distance from shore for a battlegroup engaged in shore bombardment is about 100 miles. This allows the carrier aircraft to make full-load bombing runs, keeps the CAP safely away from the air battle over the target, and lets the escorting ships protect the "bird farms" from shore-based aircraft and missiles.

TEO

Thanks for the advice, TEO. I was aware that naval groups weren't packed in together; although I didn't know they usually are stretched for hundreds of km. I was going more off of Wolfish's statement of his BGs and TF being 200-400 km off EP shores.

Just FYI, I was responding to EP's general broadcast with the video, in where they were asking for help against the Wolfish attack. My frigates were already in the area (off International Waters) as a shipping convoy escort, when Shang-Ti Command ordered them to conduct SAR.

However, President Dao hasn't yet picked a side on this issue. He still has some unresolved feelings towards the validity of the attacks and the brutalness of the Wolfish reprisals.

This is why my frigates have been broadcasting a reply to EP (and have subsequently opened up the broadcast to all open comm lines) announcing our intention of SAR and neutrality. My recollection was that Wolfish launched fighters to intercept the EP A-10's, and also that EP fighters were possibily dropping out of the sky on the return flight from lack of fuel and damage. This is why I'm conducting my SAR closer to EP waters (I certainly don't want to get my missle frigates close to Wolfish vessels if I don't have to). As my broadcasts states, I'm not getting into EP waters until I receive a reply.

It's totally up to EP and Wolfish's discretion whether I find survivors or not. Their call.

Just to toss in a few random numbers ...

It is unlikely that there will be many aircrew very far from the Hatch and Wolfish fleets, since those were the targets. Most of the planes would have been hit over or very near those fleets, and any survivors would most likely be picked up by Wolfish and Hatch. I doubt seriously that either of those nations would consider allowing another fleet from a non-allied nation to get close enough to run an effective SAR mission, anyway.

For those who've never seen one in action, a carrier battlegroup covers a huge amount of ocean- hundreds of square miles. All of those recruiting poster pictures you see of the ships in close proximity are just propaganda pics. In RL, you'd be able to see a few other ships from the deck of one of the carriers ... if it was a clear day. The only exception to this general rule is when ships are engaging in UNREP (underway replenishment), or are posing for recruiting pictures.

A good distance from shore for a battlegroup engaged in shore bombardment is about 100 miles. This allows the carrier aircraft to make full-load bombing runs, keeps the CAP safely away from the air battle over the target, and lets the escorting ships protect the "bird farms" from shore-based aircraft and missiles.

TEO

Thanks for the advice, TEO. I was aware that naval groups weren't packed in together; although I didn't know they usually are stretched for hundreds of km. I was going more off of Wolfish's statement of his BGs and TF being 200-400 km off EP shores.

Just FYI, I was responding to EP's general broadcast with the video, in where they were asking for help against the Wolfish attack. My frigates were already in the area (off International Waters) as a shipping convoy escort, when Shang-Ti Command ordered them to conduct SAR.

However, President Dao hasn't yet picked a side on this issue. He still has some unresolved feelings towards the validity of the attacks and the brutalness of the Wolfish reprisals.

This is why my frigates have been broadcasting a reply to EP (and have subsequently opened up the broadcast to all open comm lines) announcing our intention of SAR and neutrality. My recollection was that Wolfish launched fighters to intercept the EP A-10's, and also that EP fighters were possibily dropping out of the sky on the return flight from lack of fuel and damage. This is why I'm conducting my SAR closer to EP waters (I certainly don't want to get my missle frigates close to Wolfish vessels if I don't have to). As my broadcasts states, I'm not getting into EP waters until I receive a reply.

It's totally up to EP and Wolfish's discretion whether I find survivors or not. Their call.

Yea dude shoot could involve me in another aspect of RP (the rescued soldiers) Only a few pilots dropped from lack of fuel but sure SAR is good (It's expensive to train pilots)

Hey, I'm back. Sorry about the delay, but I had some RL problems that included having my internet cut for several weeks. Can anyone give me a lowdown on the situation?

Hey, I'm back. Sorry about the delay, but I had some RL problems that included having my internet cut for several weeks. Can anyone give me a lowdown on the situation?

Very briefly:

Wolfish and Hatch's forces are poised to begin the land invasion of EP.

To date, there has only been one pitched battle - Hatch and I opened up on EP targets with missiles, bombs and such - and in retailation, EP launched a massive air attack against our fleets.

I lost four ships, including a nuclear powered battleship, and a nuclear powered cruiser and over 30 or 40 F18s. Hatch's losses were less, but then he has less.

Wolfish now has four battlegroups in theatre - though Alfa is the one now short of ships and planes.

My Scorpius battlegroup is bound for Powerpoint with battleships pounding the targetted LZ from out front. To defend it from behind, Wolfish bombers layed down a few hundred sea mines.

On the international stage - a couple of nations have moved to put their forces on readiness alert - and Shang-Ti and Argyllia have forces in theatre.

That's the highpoints from my view.

W.

Argyllia:

What direction did those bombers come in from?

My base in Niue is Northeast from EP.

I want to counter attack the bombers before they return to Argyllia.

Cheers,
W.

1. They came over EP people who where informed of the raid or I hope they got my TG :) . So you could not detect them untill it was too late, and it places the Battleships bombarding the shore directly in the bombers path. If you don't like it I will change the post. The 12 extended range Harpoons came from the Fleet stuck by the mines.

2. I assume that your fighters where directed towards the bombers who where around 400-450km away from your fleet when all missiles had been released. This would put the distance between the two sets of planes around 200km if your fighters had gone at max afterburner when the last missile was fired, so I assume you will get some but EP air defence assets will have a go at your fighters I again assume.

I hope this is ok?

1. They came over EP people who where informed of the raid or I hope they got my TG :) . So you could not detect them untill it was too late, and it places the Battleships bombarding the shore directly in the bombers path. If you don't like it I will change the post. The 12 extended range Harpoons came from the Fleet stuck by the mines.

2. I assume that your fighters where directed towards the bombers who where around 400-450km away from your fleet when all missiles had been released. This would put the distance between the two sets of planes around 200km if your fighters had gone at max afterburner when the last missile was fired, so I assume you will get some but EP air defence assets will have a go at your fighters I again assume.

I hope this is ok?

Haven't checked the IC posts yet (I've been in the hospital, and I'm still playing catch-up on the forums), but Wolfish and Hatch would very likely have spotted your bombers on radar unless there were some significant countermeasures in use at the time (similar to the formation I used against you for my air strike).

Most radars are only limited by the emitter's power and the curvature of the Earth. The more powerful the emitter (and the more sensitive the receiver), the farther away the radar will pick up a target. 'Stealth' targets merely have a reduced radar cross section. They can be detected by radars that are very close, or by more powerful radars further away.

The curvature of the Earth limits surface radars to about 16 kilometers or so for surface targets. The higher the target's altitude, the farther away it can be 'seen' (subject to the power of the emitter compared with the radar cross-section of the target and the receiver sensitivity). Ship-mounted air-search radars can detect high-altitude targets up to about 200 kilometers. Airborne radars can see even farther. Fighter planes usually have powerful emitters, but lousy receivers- which are often restricted to one direction for further limits.

That is where airborne warning and control (AWAC) aircraft come in. Those big 'flying saucer' shapes on the planes are sophisticated and powerful receivers and emitters. Put them several thousand meters up, and they can accurately cover a wide swath of the territory nearby- terrain permitting. Intervening mountains and similar obstacles will create blind spots in the coverage that attacking planes can make use of.

The countermeasure for these 'blind spots' is simply to put up multiple AWACs to cover as much of the threat axis as possible. Battlegroups usually have two operating in non-combat conditions, and three or four when the shooting starts. Given that there are two fleets operating near a fairly small land mass, it is unlikely that your bombers would arrive completely unannounced.

Some possible reasons why they'd be able to get within shooting range include:
* Staying at very low altitude until within missile range. This would keep the enemy radars from discovering their presence until only a few hundred kilometers away. They would eventually be detected- even flying on the deck- but you might get close enough to achieve limited tactical surprise.

* Have friendly units create artificial obstacles to the enemy radar. You should be unpleasantly familiar with that tactic from our recent engagement.

Decoys in addition to the above would also distract the enemy and cause his response to be delayed until your planes reached their launch points. Friendly airstrikes in conjunction with your attack would also distract the enemy, and the presence of neutral or noncombatant aircraft in the area might also conceal your intentions for the critical approach to launch point.

The decision is up to you and Wolfish, of course, but this might help the two of you talk it through.

TEO

I'm fine with the attack.

There were three battleships in-shore - and I'll loss the bunch.

The RO/RO is surrounded by warships from the Remus group - so while it may take some damage - it'll be floating in the morning.

I have standard patrols in the air at all times - and EP doesn't have any substantial air defenses left - so that patrol will hit your retreating bombers - I expect I can get 12 anti-air missles off at the bombers before they are beyond range.

One further question - since you came over the top of EP - can I assume your nation is south of EP?

Wolfish

Yes it is south of EP

TEO

I argree with all your points, 30 mins before the bombers launched(and they where 400km away when they launched) a diversionary attack was launched by the ships of the Argyllian Fleet, namely 12 Harpoon missiles these where directed at Wolfishes invaison fleet of Ro-Ro's. These are his most precious ships and I hoped that his entire fleet would try and protect them and leaving the Battleships conducting inshore bombardment isolated and vunreable to attack. (a tactic I believe you used also)

Also I think B-52's have extremely powerful electronic warfare suits (lets face it they aren't going to dodge or out run anything) these would limit the effect of enemy radar and enemy missile systems.

Okay - I've posted my losses etc from your attack. I'll post my counter attack soon.

If you read it earlier today, I've edited, because I actually forgot about the tomahawks after responding to the Harpoons (as was intended, lol).

Cheers,
W.

Nice Counter-attack looks as if not many birds are gonna get home.

Just for confirmation how many missiles where fired at the bombers?

Nice Counter-attack looks as if not many birds are gonna get home.

Just for confirmation how many missiles where fired at the bombers?

It should be 8 per plane - so a total of 128 - with the last 16 missiles targetting already striken bombers. But those are big planes - so I'm guessing they would need multiple strikes to go down.

This leaves room for extra fuel on the fighters - I also meant to RP a refuelling on the way back to the carriers - so I'll edit that in at some point - they couldn't have done the round trip on what they carry.

I've updated my site to indicate the loss of the three battleships and the damage to the RO/RO.

www.freewebs.com/wolfish/

Wolfish Submarine Attack things to bear in mind

1. All my ships are stationary, so it will be extremely hard to detect them by passive SONAR and if you used active SONAR I would be able to find you subs very quickly.

2. Also I have 3 SSN's at the top of the minefield guarding against a flanking attack. Also there are constant sweeps by Merlin ASW helicopters operating off Frigates, Destroyers and Cruisers

Wolfish Submarine Attack things to bear in mind

1. All my ships are stationary, so it will be extremely hard to detect them by passive SONAR and if you used active SONAR I would be able to find you subs very quickly.

2. Also I have 3 SSN's at the top of the minefield guarding against a flanking attack. Also there are constant sweeps by Merlin ASW helicopters operating off Frigates, Destroyers and Cruisers

Thanks.

It will be a multi-pronged attack - I expect your ships will start moving once missiles start flying.

Do you want your SSNs to intercept and engage my subs before or after they engage your surface ships?

After, as they are mapping the mine field at the moment and are not concentrating on an attack so prehaps they will have a go at your subs as they retreat from their attack on the surface fleet.

After, as they are mapping the mine field at the moment and are not concentrating on an attack so prehaps they will have a go at your subs as they retreat from their attack on the surface fleet.


That works.

After, as they are mapping the mine field at the moment and are not concentrating on an attack so prehaps they will have a go at your subs as they retreat from their attack on the surface fleet.


That works.

Mind if I bring my own SSN's into play here? I've already mentioned that a group was deployed, and they should be arriving in theatre now. I was planning on using them (as noticing the Argyllian run in with the mines) as a justification of Shang-Ti entering the war.

So you don't have to scroll back, it'll be eight ( 8 ) Wraith Class SSN's coming in from the West.

Sorry for the double... the boards are acting up.

Hey, yah, I posted finally. Nothing much big, just the fact that there's more tension, and that we're going to allow wounded to come to our nation (we're about 400km from Niue, I'm guessing, giving NS Earth's odd size), and we're still selling our goods and buying bonds.

After, as they are mapping the mine field at the moment and are not concentrating on an attack so prehaps they will have a go at your subs as they retreat from their attack on the surface fleet.


That works.

Mind if I bring my own SSN's into play here? I've already mentioned that a group was deployed, and they should be arriving in theatre now. I was planning on using them (as noticing the Argyllian run in with the mines) as a justification of Shang-Ti entering the war.

So you don't have to scroll back, it'll be eight ( 8 ) Wraith Class SSN's coming in from the West.

That's good with me - I'll launch the attack first though, then they can engage my subs. It'll be easier to RP out that way. Plus my guys are going to be pretty quiet until they starting launching.

Shouldn't I be able to have a go at your B-1B's before they are 60km away, my outer fighters are 100km infront of the fleet and would pick them up on Radar.

Shouldn't I be able to have a go at your B-1B's before they are 60km away, my outer fighters are 100km infront of the fleet and would pick them up on Radar.

I thought about that - and wasn't sure of my approach - but I figured with the stealthy bombers flying at wave tops, 200 fighters appearing on your radars, and a flight of over 100 missiles, you might not have fighters in the area.

How do you want to proceed?

Shouldn't I be able to have a go at your B-1B's before they are 60km away, my outer fighters are 100km infront of the fleet and would pick them up on Radar.

I thought about that - and wasn't sure of my approach - but I figured with the stealthy bombers flying at wave tops, 200 fighters appearing on your radars, and a flight of over 100 missiles, you might not have fighters in the area.

How do you want to proceed?

How high are the seas? Wave-top with TFR is dangerous flying for anything massive enough to carry a man at the B-1's cruise speed (and even more dangerous if you're trying to use just a stick), and what's the weather along the approach path?

I will chase the bombers after they have launched their missiles i will post soon.

actually this has got me thinking. The weather has been clear and sunny like the tropical paradise that my country is, but would anyone be interested in throwing in a monsoon for shits and giggles? I don't think that anyone should post about incliment weather until its been agreed here but what do you guys think?

actually this has got me thinking. The weather has been clear and sunny like the tropical paradise that my country is, but would anyone be interested in throwing in a monsoon for shits and giggles? I don't think that anyone should post about incliment weather until its been agreed here but what do you guys think?

I suggest that you think long and hard about this before deciding. A serious storm will seriously foul up amphibious operations, force naval units away from shore, and completely ground most of the aircraft. Surface ASW ops would be compromised, and UAVs would be pretty useless.

If you're going to do it, my recommendation is to do so after the landings- the ground forces would be able to continue with only minor problems.


TEO

actually this has got me thinking. The weather has been clear and sunny like the tropical paradise that my country is, but would anyone be interested in throwing in a monsoon for shits and giggles? I don't think that anyone should post about incliment weather until its been agreed here but what do you guys think?

I suggest that you think long and hard about this before deciding. A serious storm will seriously foul up amphibious operations, force naval units away from shore, and completely ground most of the aircraft. Surface ASW ops would be compromised, and UAVs would be pretty useless.

If you're going to do it, my recommendation is to do so after the landings- the ground forces would be able to continue with only minor problems.


TEO

TEO - ALL - Why not add some realism to the weather systems - every so often, TEO or another ref could indicate the weather currently in the area. The players would all accept that weather until the ref changes it to something else. Regardless of the challenge to my fleets, I'd be up for that.

Thought?

I think having a Ref determining Weather is a good idea-it came up in the aborted game I just dropped out of as a player (Supersonic surface-skimmers on the antarctic's rotten waves? ground clutter and missed shots!) Weather has caused more Strategic and Tactical delays in history than anything-the Normandy Invasion was messed about with by the weather, for instance, while knowing the weather over the target was the whole reason my Grandfather was in the nose of a plane ahead of the formations over Europe in 1942-44. Battle doesn't occur in a vacuum of ideal circumstances, and in operations on this scale, it can create or destroy lucky breaks all over the place, throwing an element of the Random into the carefully planned tactics of the players (making them think on their feet, so to speak.)

Then again, this quarter, I'm doing Meteorology as my "Science break" between the Humanities class I HAVE to have, and the Math Class I MUST pass. (got gypped on the Geology-not enough people signed up, and it was too late to get the Astronomy class that was choice number two...)

Well Iuthia is suppose to be the Ref here so they could create the weather, as long as they maintained impartiallity. We would have to let the ground forces get onto the ground first otherwise it would slow up the RP too much I think. I guess we have to wait and see what wolfish thinks, it being the desolation of 'wolfish' and all

Guys - sorry, but I'm not going to be able to post until May 4th. I've got to go away for business. Hatch will hopefully land soon, and that'll keep you occupied.

Cheers,
Wolfish

Guys - sorry, but I'm not going to be able to post until May 4th. I've got to go away for business. Hatch will hopefully land soon, and that'll keep you occupied.

Cheers,
Wolfish

I hope this thing doesn't die, I'd be upset if it did.

I apologise for the delay. RL is a bitch sometimes.

I have now posted - and while it lacks the spark of some previous posts, I believe it advances the story.

I will hopefully post some of the action back in Wolfish soon...but feel free to continue on in EP etc.

Well I've been TGing Wolfish and he figures the best way to proceed from here is to ignore the entire thread, which we both agree is unfortunate but This ties up my entire nation and I'd like to move on. So This is just to let every one know,... none of this happened.

Wow,.... I feel emptier now somehow...

Well I've been TGing Wolfish and he figures the best way to proceed from here is to ignore the entire thread, which we both agree is unfortunate but This ties up my entire nation and I'd like to move on. So This is just to let every one know,... none of this happened.

Wow,.... I feel emptier now somehow...

DAMN IT!

This had so much promise. Well, I'll have to rework some internal stuff now, too. Oh well... getting to work...

Can someone tell me WTF happened?

TEO

Can someone tell me WTF happened?

TEOWondering the same, actually. This had promise!

Can someone tell me WTF happened?

TEOWondering the same, actually. This had promise!

From my understanding in reading Wolfish's comments in the RPU Region Board, he's taking off from NS. Dunno if this is permanent, temporary, or indefinite (my guess is indefinite); however, it looks like he's relenquishing control of RPU to others and leaving.