NationStates Jolt Archive

This is where all the OOC discussion for the "Ferrussia condemns Fyreheart - Sanctions imposed!" thread, which is quickly escalating. PLEASE, keep ALL OOC comments to this thread, and if you think someone's not paying attention to the OOC thread, just reference and/or link them to it. Thanks. This should help keep the RP relatively uncluttered.

Official RP tech-date: 2005 or below

IMPORTANT LINKS:

Original thread: Ferrussia condemns Fyreheart - Sanctions imposed! (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=102002&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)
Ferrussian maps & OOC Military information: Ferrussian Official OOC Website (http://y2ksean.tripod.com)
Best Ferrussian map to use: Map of Ukraine (http://www.boomspeed.com/ferret_guy/ukraine_rel93.jpg)
Fyreheartian map: Map of Fyreheart (http://www.boomspeed.com/ferret_guy/fyreheartmap.jpg) **NOTE**: Out of date, replacement in the works
Map of Bosporus Strait: Map with fleet deployments (http://www.boomspeed.com/ferret_guy/bstrait1gif.GIF)
ICON thread: I.C.O.N. Calls all Imperialist Nations! (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=101984)

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1272/n2634_v126/20409139/p2/article.jhtml?term=
According to this article the U.S. military budget 14% of the GDP during the Korean War.

Also the 800 million cost was the construction cost.

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1272/n2634_v126/20409139/p2/article.jhtml?term=
According to this article the U.S. military budget 14% of the GDP during the Korean War.

Also the 800 million cost was the construction cost.

How does that make it 60% of the national budget, by any way?

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1272/n2634_v126/20409139/p2/article.jhtml?term=
According to this article the U.S. military budget 14% of the GDP during the Korean War.

Also the 800 million cost was the construction cost.
Correct, and they were indeed focusing over 50% of the government budget on the war. The key word here is war. No government can maintian that kind of military spending outside of a real war, not even North Korea goes that far. Realistically, your military budget shouldn't be more than about half of that, unless you can come up with a good RPed reason for a higher one. You can up it during a war, but you have to wait until a war starts, and the huge fleet will have to go bye bye because you don't have enough to maintain it.

I stand by the fact that that's way too low for a battleship. You're going to have to give a credible source if I'm going to believe it, and I couldn't find any to back that up, just a bunch that say otherwise.

Basically because Belem doesn't have a welfare system, it has a very limited healthcare system. The closest thing to a government support program is they send you to pave roads for minimum wage. So there is a massive amount of money floating around that gets put into military spending where whatever doesn't get spent during peacetime gets put into a bank account for war. The military isn't required to spend all of its budget in a year.

I was invited to this RP... but respectfully, I must decline, at least for now.

Last "war" I got into with belem got completely screwed up, and I'm gonna take a break from that.

But Ferrussia, if you want to fill me in with a telegram, I might lend a hand at least.

Basically because Belem doesn't have a welfare system, it has a very limited healthcare system. The closest thing to a government support program is they send you to pave roads for minimum wage. So there is a massive amount of money floating around that gets put into military spending where whatever doesn't get spent during peacetime gets put into a bank account for war. The military isn't required to spend all of its budget in a year.

What about education? Certainly, without educated people, your military would be unable to figure out how to develop complex technology!

I was invited to this RP... but respectfully, I must decline, at least for now.

Last "war" I got into with belem got completely screwed up, and I'm gonna take a break from that.

But Ferrussia, if you want to fill me in with a telegram, I might lend a hand at least.

Actually, most of the fighting (assuming there is any) will likely be Fyreheart invading me. As Fyreheart and I are essentially the people "running" the RP, military involvement in the actual attack can be limited by either of us. Fyreheart hasn't announced who he intends to allow in, OOCly, because it will definately need to be limited in at least some respect.

In the meantime, I will try to TG you with a summary in the next day or so, and I'll keep my fingers crossed. :wink:

Government pays for Education but it outsources most of it to corporations that are devoted to Education. Most of Belem's elite and intellectuals attend private schools and if a child shows to be extremelly intelligent the government will offer a scholarship to a private school in exchange for service to the government later on.

TAGZORS

*Tag for reference* blip!

I forgot to send Crownguard and Melkor their toaster ovens.

Yes.....yes you did *stands there, tapping foot*




On another note, I am gone for the night. Good eve everyone!

I don't know what everyone else has said, but damn Belem that fleet is bloody major GODMOD! It would cost trillions of dollars to make it and several trillion a year just to operate it. Not mention it would take years just to build a fleet that size and millions of sailers to operate it. Not to mention how many supply ships and tankers it would take to move a fleet like that.

*tag*

Don't we get a toaster oven?

Government pays for Education but it outsources most of it to corporations that are devoted to Education. Most of Belem's elite and intellectuals attend private schools and if a child shows to be extremelly intelligent the government will offer a scholarship to a private school in exchange for service to the government later on.
Health? Enviroment? Other government matters? How is your economy going to even function?

To continue my ranting, Belem. A 600+ Vessel fleet would require a large number of tankers, oilers, and supply ships. You have to keep all your ships and their crews supplied with food, equipment, ammunition, and most important fuel.

Government pays for Education but it outsources most of it to corporations that are devoted to Education. Most of Belem's elite and intellectuals attend private schools and if a child shows to be extremelly intelligent the government will offer a scholarship to a private school in exchange for service to the government later on.
Health? Enviroment? Other government matters? How is your economy going to even function?
If your in the military you get government healthcare. If not you better work for a corporation that gives benefits. Otherwise you have to pay for your own health insurance or possibly qualify for a charity to help you.

The only thing Belem requires is that corporations dont dump toxic waste in the water supply or in harbors and as long as they dont completely destroy an area during mining unless its in an annexed area(i.e. Belem corporations are basically given free reign in Belem Kieales and can pretty much do what ever they want unless it starts killing people.)

The government handles policing, firefighting, road construction and public works. Most of the public works and such are outsourced to private companies. The ones that aren't are government programs for the unemployed they get paid minimum wage to build roads.
Policing and Firefighting are the only things the government actually runs but certain rich communities opt out of government run police and firefighters(they still have to pay taxes) and pay for private firms to protect their neighborhoods.

I don't know what everyone else has said, but damn Belem that fleet is bloody major GODMOD! It would cost trillions of dollars to make it and several trillion a year just to operate it. Not mention it would take years just to build a fleet that size and millions of sailers to operate it. Not to mention how many supply ships and tankers it would take to move a fleet like that.

I didn't build the fleet in one day it was built over a long time. It probably would cost over a trillion dollars to build it but not to maintain it. Maintaining my fleet would cost approx 120 billion dollars a year. And as a high estimate I would only need 2 million people surviving on the ships. I always forget whether the upkeep cost counts crews or not but if it doesnt the salary of the 2 million sailors on the ships(remember high estimate again.) would be about 70 billion dollars(I used an average salary of 35 thousand dollars a year.) Even including the men on land it would only cost about 310 billion to maintain my Navy.

:tantrum: Double post :tantrum:

Maintaining my fleet would cost approx 120 billion dollars a year.
I thought you said it would cost you $300 billion before?

I always forget whether the upkeep cost counts crews or not but if it doesnt the salary of the 2 million sailors on the ships(remember high estimate again.) would be about 70 billion dollars(I used an average salary of 35 thousand dollars a year.)
No, the salary doesn't count. You also need to take into account that officers receive a much higher pay.

Even including the men on land it would only cost about 310 billion to maintain my Navy.
So what you are saying is that you've just deployed your entire navy into this blockade? And how about the replenishment, transport, and other support ships?

OOC: I said the Navy gets 300 billion dollars locked funds as in what they will get every year no matter what to run the navy.

Thats why I took basically the middle ground for salary. say enlisted would recieve between 25-32 thousand a year. Officers probably 40-75.

no. The cost I gave you was for maintaining 1800 cap ships and subs. I took the estimate of I think about 150 million dollars per ship a year in mantience which probably gave me a higher cost then it would actually cost considering things like frigates and destroyers only have 20-40 million dollars in mantience a year. I was using a higher estimate to include the cost of Carriers and Battleships.

I have 9 fleets only 4 are deployed though unless Belem is in a full scale war. 3 just on general patrols ussually around Belem possesions and 1 home fleet guarding local waters.
I didn't send any troop transport ships those are only sent if im planning an invasion.
Supply ships are with the fleet. lets say each supply ship can suppy 5 ships. I would need a minmum of 378 supply ships total. say I want to have 3x the number to ensure functioning supply lines I would have about 900-1000 supply ships not all running at once of course.

no. The cost I gave you was for maintaining 1800 cap ships and subs.
Understood. A note, normally carriers, battleships, and the like requires 200 million or more to maintain.

Supply ships are with the fleet. lets say each supply ship can suppy 5 ships. I would need a minmum of 378 supply ships total.

Didn't you say that the supply ships are making round trips, after didn't list them at all (OOC/IC)? Something seems weird here.

Belem, I am pretty sure the US could not maintain a fleet the size you sent to Ferrussia.

The US Military Budget (Entire Military not just Navy) is about 300 Billion USD.

The US Navy has approximately 173,000 men in it not counting the Coast Guard.

The US Navy has approximately 300+ ships in it including those mothballed.

These figures are older, but not much has changed.

Belem, I am pretty sure the US could not maintain a fleet the size you sent to Ferrussia.
The US did maintain a 600 ship Navy in the 80es (back in the days of Reagan's crazy defense spendings), but also note that half of it were non-combat ships (amphibious ships, replenishment ships, transport vessels, intelligence-gathering vessels, etc.).

BTW, he's spending 50% of his budget on defence :P

no. The cost I gave you was for maintaining 1800 cap ships and subs.
Understood. A note, normally carriers, battleships, and the like requires 200 million or more to maintain.

Supply ships are with the fleet. lets say each supply ship can suppy 5 ships. I would need a minmum of 378 supply ships total.

Didn't you say that the supply ships are making round trips, after didn't list them at all (OOC/IC)? Something seems weird here.

I don't have a definitive list for my supply ships because no one ever brought it up. And the round trip thing is basically that once the supply ships following that fleet start to run out of supplies another convoy of supply ships will ship out to relieve them so basically two convoys will be making round trips back and forth.

Belem, I am pretty sure the US could not maintain a fleet the size you sent to Ferrussia.
The US did maintain a 600 ship Navy in the 80es (back in the days of Reagan's crazy defense spendings), but also note that half of it were non-combat ships (amphibious ships, replenishment ships, transport vessels, intelligence-gathering vessels, etc.).

BTW, he's spending 50% of his budget on defence :P

and the U.S. maintaned something like 2000+ cap ships during World War. And an insanely high amount of liberty ships.

and the U.S. maintaned something like 2000+ cap ships during World War. And an insanely high amount of liberty ships.

But that's only in the World War, where the US is facing a huge threat from Japan. Didn't the US got rid of most of the ships due to teh fact that they can't afford them anymore?

The 2000 capital ship thing, if it is true, is in the World War II, when Japan attacked the US and the US wanted to fight the huge force of the Germans. The 600 ship Navy is in the heightened periods of the Cold War, when Reagan saw the Soviet fleet as a threat. You can't possibly maintain a 50% budget or 1800 warships during peacetime, otherwise your government would be bankrupt.

OOC: Brain, you've got my backing.

*Points up to his editted post, for currentish US Navy facts*

Belem, I am pretty sure the US could not maintain a fleet the size you sent to Ferrussia.

The US Military Budget (Entire Military not just Navy) is about 300 Billion USD.

The US Navy has approximately 173,000 men in it not counting the Coast Guard.

The US Navy has approximately 300+ ships in it including those mothballed.

These figures are older, but not much has changed.


The U.S. is not a military state and is more concerned with welfare and the like. Belem is an expansionist Empire which devotes most of its budget to the military.
Belem is approximitely 5 times the size of the U.S.
If the U.S. adopted a World War II or Korean War budget it would probably be able to field a fleet of over a thousand cap ships.

The U.S. is not a military state and is more concerned with welfare and the like. Belem is an expansionist Empire which devotes most of its budget to the military.

And...? How does that affect the USA in the Cold War?

If the U.S. adopted a World War II or Korean War budget it would probably be able to field a fleet of over a thousand cap ships.

The problem is, as said earlier many times, is that they just couldn't maintain a wartime budget in peacetime.

Im just saying the military numbers for the united states will be low because of the government style.


2. Because the people wouldnt stand for a wartyime budget in peacetime and since military spending isnt fixed congress would mqake the budget lower. If you gave the military a wartime budget during peacetime they would find a way to spend it.

Yes, the US numbers will be low, but everyone here has forgotten something major. Technology, something that has advanced in leaps and bounds since even World War II. Computers alone were not in use at all, during World War II, and have advanced almost incalculably since even the 80s. They say that every RL Year is 7 Computer years, that is how fast computer technology is advancing. The ships in use today are far far more advanced that those that sailed during WWII, even since the 80s. And there costs have risen as such.

Equipment for the Military is similarly high prices, because weapons producers know the army/navy/whatever is good for their high prices. Not to mention the work that goes into modern equipment. You here jokes about the thousand dollar toilet on military budgets, but there is truth to these jokes. Military equipment is damn expensive.

Anyway, the Drakonian Fleet is as high modern tech as they come. Equipped with the latests and greatest technology, heavily armored with modern alloys and sporting the latest in computer technology and weapons systems. Drakonia only has very small navy, but its a bloody heavily expensive one, as we spare no cost.

Now if Belem wants a WWII fleet, I have no quarrel whatsoever. As long as he takes WWII causalties I will be happy. My Modern navy will have a nice chicken shoot.

Im just saying the military numbers for the united states will be low because of the government style.
Not only because of government style (the Soviets typically send much more), but also because of finance. The Soviet Union nearly bankrupted themselves economically not only because of their socialist economic, but also the effect military spending had on the economy.

2. Because the people wouldnt stand for a wartyime budget in peacetime
It is not partly that people wouldn't stand for a wartime budget in peacetime, it is mostly that a big wartime budget in times of no war will simply bankrupt the government if it goeso n for a long time.

If you gave the military a wartime budget during peacetime they would find a way to spend it.
See above. The problem, as said many times, is not only that it would be a waste, but also because of severe effects on governmental budget and economy.

Anyways, there ends my words.

Yes, the US numbers will be low, but everyone here has forgotten something major. Technology, something that has advanced in leaps and bounds since even World War II. Computers alone were not in use at all, during World War II, and have advanced almost incalculably since even the 80s. They say that every RL Year is 7 Computer years, that is how fast computer technology is advancing. The ships in use today are far far more advanced that those that sailed during WWII, even since the 80s. And there costs have risen as such.

Equipment for the Military is similarly high prices, because weapons producers know the army/navy/whatever is good for their high prices. Not to mention the work that goes into modern equipment. You here jokes about the thousand dollar toilet on military budgets, but there is truth to these jokes. Military equipment is damn expensive.

Anyway, the Drakonian Fleet is as high modern tech as they come. Equipped with the latests and greatest technology, heavily armored with modern alloys and sporting the latest in computer technology and weapons systems. Drakonia only has very small navy, but its a bloody heavily expensive one, as we spare no cost.

Now if Belem wants a WWII fleet, I have no quarrel whatsoever. As long as he takes WWII causalties I will be happy. My Modern navy will have a nice chicken shoot.

Actually one of the reason the army says they spend 2 grand per toilet seat is they actually cover the cost for black projects that congress isn't supposed to know about by inflating the price of common objects.

Ships are more expensive more because of the rate of inflation and the general increase in the money supply. Considering in 1950 buying a loaf of Bread cost about 15-25 cents. Now the price for a loaf of bread is about 1.25 does that mean the bread quality improved? No. It just means inflation has had an effect on the value of the item.

And most of the ships sailing today have been produced in the 80s. Also ships during World War II had the most advanced technology availible to them installed just as ships today have the most advanced technology installed on them. Another note the cost of technology is going down, just compare the price of a state of the art personal computer in 1990 to a state of the art computer now.

Also on your WWII fleet thing I operate WWII sized fleets with the modern equivelent of weapons and technology. If the United States devoted the same amount of money to the military now that it did during the 40s and 50s it would be able to field an extremely large fleet.

If the US maintains WWII sized fleet levels the national dept would be massively higher than it already is. The US National Dept is currently about $7 Trillion Dollars and it's rising at $2.34 Billion a day. Those are facts. A lot of that money is Cold War depts from all the money the US spend during it's arms race with the USSR. Now if your nation is constantly at War Spending, I shudder to think how much your national dept is. Maintaining a navy of that size would be massively costly, especially if it's modern technology.

I'm going to be doing a lot of moving around with my navy today, so here's the current stats so no one gets freaked over my fleets. Note this is my entire navy I'm posting, NOT just one fleet.


100 MH-53E Sea Dragon Helicopters
15 Nimitz Aircraft Carriers
10 Ulyanovsk carriers
300 HSV's
70 Taruntul IVB Class Fast Attack boat
100 Ion Class Destroyers
10 Krasdaz Class nuclear submarines
65 Sovremenny class destroyers
70 Ticonderoga cruisers
30 Soyuz III Battleships
TAK-3000 Maersk-class - Maritime Prepositioning Ship
20 LHA-1 Tarawa class amphibious assault ships
50 DO-36 Frigates
1 Red Dragon class carrier
Various supply ships

Okay, I've made my points and Belem it doesn't seem you will change your mind about that GODMOD of a fleet. I think I will just deploy some high-altitude bombers to Ferrusia and drop something similar to Daisy Cutters on your fleet, if this comes to war. Your fleet is so bloody big, I will have trouble not hitting anything, especially with a weapon the size of a daisy cutter.

Okay, I've made my points and Belem it doesn't seem you will change your mind about that GODMOD of a fleet. I think I will just deploy some high-altitude bombers to Ferrusia and drop something similar to Daisy Cutters on your fleet, if this comes to war. Your fleet is so bloody big, I will have trouble not hitting anything, especially with a weapon the size of a daisy cutter.

Actually, Daisy Cutter won't really damage ships due to its "vaccum" characteristics. You drop it onto ships, it will just explode in the air, minimalizing the effect on the sides of the ship.

But you could stuff a few B-1B like bombers with 80 Mk.82 500lb bombs, and drop a barrage of them onto his fleet :P

PS: As you can see that for the IC comments I minimalized commenting about Belem. It is just ridiculous to able to move 600 ships that instant, and own a fleet of 1800 ships. Since Belem still doesn't get the point, and since I want to minimalize ignore, I'll see how it goes.

If the US maintains WWII sized fleet levels the national dept would be massively higher than it already is. The US National Dept is currently about $7 Trillion Dollars and it's rising at $2.34 Billion a day. Those are facts. A lot of that money is Cold War depts from all the money the US spend during it's arms race with the USSR. Now if your nation is constantly at War Spending, I shudder to think how much your national dept is. Maintaining a navy of that size would be massively costly, especially if it's modern technology.

Debts are accumaleted because of the spending of money the government doesn't have its like using a credit card. IF the government has the money to pay for something outright then it doesnt accumulate debt. My country can afford to pay for its military aspects lets look at some comparassions between the U.S. and my country.

Population
U.S. 295 million
Belem 1.279 billion

GDP
U.S. Approx 10 trillion dollars
Belem Approx 60 trillion dollars

Per Capita
U.S. Approx 32,000 dollars per person per capita
Belem Approx 40,000 dollars per person per capita

Military spending
U.S. Approx 17%(is going to go up to about 20% i believer with the next budget year) with the extra 80 billion dollars the U.S. military budget will be about 491 billion dollars.
Belem 50% for nearly 3 trillion dollars in military spending.


And my fleets were built over a long period of time so its not like im having one massive spending outage. When I was at war with Nianacio I started with 3-4 fleets and I had a pop of 500 million. By the end of the war(since the war had alot to do with naval battles) I built a fleet of about 6 fleets. A few weeks later I built a 7th fleet and I built no newer fleets until the end of october and the beginning of November when I built 8th and 9th fleet when I was approaching a billion.

Okay, I've made my points and Belem it doesn't seem you will change your mind about that GODMOD of a fleet. I think I will just deploy some high-altitude bombers to Ferrusia and drop something similar to Daisy Cutters on your fleet, if this comes to war. Your fleet is so bloody big, I will have trouble not hitting anything, especially with a weapon the size of a daisy cutter.

Daisy cutters cant be fitted in a bombers bombay because they are too big, they are dropped from heavy transport planes because they are about the size of a bungalow.

Belem's fleet is a *bit* large, but hey - that just means more targets, right? :D :D :D

Belem 50% for nearly 3 trillion dollars in military spending.
I thought you said it is 6 trillion?

And my fleets were built over a long period of time so its not like im having one massive spending outage.
Yes, long period of time. But that maintance for those warships will also cost you trillions over a few year. I will not be suprised if your government is in heavy debt and is near bankruptcy.

When I was at war with Nianacio I started with 3-4 fleets and I had a pop of 500 million. By the end of the war(since the war had alot to do with naval battles) I built a fleet of about 6 fleets. A few weeks later I built a 7th fleet and I built no newer fleets until the end of october and the beginning of November when I built 8th and 9th fleet when I was approaching a billion.
Yes, you are at war and immediately built some fleet. So did the Americans did in WWII. But shouldn't your "emergency fleet" be scrapped, since it wouldn't really be possible to maintain it in peacetime?

If you just have a population of 500 million and had a total of 800 ships, then you just had a population of 900-1000 million and had 1800 ships, then it is still going to wreck your government especially when you had a total of 1.000 billion and had 1800 warships (since you said every fleet had 200 ships). Even I, who has a budget of $21 trillion as of this time, cannot afford a total of 1800 modern, top-of-the-line warships even under a scenario when my military budget is 50% (which is $10.5 trillion)

I know this is kinda off the subject, but would anyone object if I used gravships in this RP? Only as naval forces though, like I always do, no goofy space crap or dominating land forces.

I know this is kinda off the subject, but would anyone object if I used gravships in this RP? Only as naval forces though, like I always do, no goofy space crap or dominating land forces.
Since Ferrussia wants this to be a modern tech RP, what weaponeries do they have?

Gravships = frowned upon, but if its an integral part of your navy, I would consider allowing them. Otherwise, please use any avaliable modern-tech transports instead.

I already posted them, but if they are seriously wanted to be kept out of this RP I can edit my post. They're completely destructible, but their hulls are much, much thicker than any conventional ship. Their weapons range anywhere from a standard missile pod to a much more destructive kinetic missile pod. If you want to see how they work in an RP you can look up some of those old Coalition War threads, where me and Nankin fought. He layed quite a lickin' on my fleet and he was using a conventional navy the whole time, so they aren't to advantageous.

Dammit, I don't know what to do.....

Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war!

Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war!

Eh....against who!!

On one hand I have Belem, who has been a loyal ally for a long time. We have fought together very often and have fought for the same causes. Plus the whole Catholic thing.

On the other hand I am very strongly against imperialism, and have a few allies on the other side as well.

Difficult Choice, and I don't think I can stand this one out. Hopefully the situation will stabilize and I won't have to choose.

Belem 50% for nearly 3 trillion dollars in military spending.
I thought you said it is 6 trillion?

And my fleets were built over a long period of time so its not like im having one massive spending outage.
Yes, long period of time. But that maintance for those warships will also cost you trillions over a few year. I will not be suprised if your government is in heavy debt and is near bankruptcy.

When I was at war with Nianacio I started with 3-4 fleets and I had a pop of 500 million. By the end of the war(since the war had alot to do with naval battles) I built a fleet of about 6 fleets. A few weeks later I built a 7th fleet and I built no newer fleets until the end of october and the beginning of November when I built 8th and 9th fleet when I was approaching a billion.
Yes, you are at war and immediately built some fleet. So did the Americans did in WWII. But shouldn't your "emergency fleet" be scrapped, since it wouldn't really be possible to maintain it in peacetime?

If you just have a population of 500 million and had a total of 800 ships, then you just had a population of 900-1000 million and had 1800 ships, then it is still going to wreck your government especially when you had a total of 1.000 billion and had 1800 warships (since you said every fleet had 200 ships). Even I, who has a budget of $21 trillion as of this time, cannot afford a total of 1800 modern, top-of-the-line warships even under a scenario when my military budget is 50% (which is $10.5 trillion)

1. woops 6 trillion your right I put the wrong thing in the GDP calculator.

2. The ships mantience is payed every year and the cost of mantience doesnt shoot up dramaticaly where it would cost trillions to support hte fleet. And if a ship was getting too old it would be scrapped or sold and its salveagable parts reused in its replacement.

3. The fleets were actually finished after the war ended. The war only lasted 6 NS months but most of the hulls were put down for the fleets. And the cost to build them was already spent so it would be pointless to scrap them and the thinking is we'll need those fleets eventually instead of having to build emergency fleets again for expensive costs for quick construction.

4. Only 1800 ships approximately 168 surface ships per fleet. And you could eassilly afford 1800 ships considering mantience for most ships runs 20-40 millions only carriers, submarines and battleships go over the 100 million mark. Transport and supply ships ussually run the cost of what a standard civilian freighter would cost to run only specialized things such as submarine tenders have special costs associated with them.

Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war!

Eh....against who!!

On one hand I have Belem, who has been a loyal ally for a long time. We have fought together very often and have fought for the same causes. Plus the whole Catholic thing.

On the other hand I am very strongly against imperialism, and have a few allies on the other side as well.

Difficult Choice, and I don't think I can stand this one out. Hopefully the situation will stabilize and I won't have to choose.

I can promise you a nice share of the spoils:)

I can promise you a nice share of the spoils:)

Sorry, no deal. 8)

I can promise you a nice share of the spoils:)

Sorry, no deal. 8)

or your water suppy wont mysteriously get poisoned with a deadly bacteria one day.

Ferrussia, I need to know everything there is to know about your coastal defenses.

or your water suppy wont mysteriously get poisoned with a deadly bacteria one day.

I'll pretend I didn't hear that....

Hey, Ferrussia, wouldn't anyone trying to get in your waters have to pass through the Strait of Dardanelles? I mean, as you are Ukraine, and the only way into the Black Sea by water is through the Strait.

http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/map09ga.gif

:wink:

Yes, but that is far enough from Ferrussia to be international waters. I will have some uses for the Strait later, though... *cryptic laugh*

I just wanted to make that public. I figured you would say so, but Diminix wanted to argue that you only use the map of Ukraine, not implement it to the actual geography of the region or something.. :?

Anyway, now that's official, people should take care. :twisted: The Dardanelles have been known to be a slaughter house for naval fleets in the past, most namely in WWI. :twisted:

So I send in the Gravships first. No biggie.

[quote="Isla de Penguinata"]I just wanted to make that public. I figured you would say so, but Diminix wanted to argue that you only use the map of Ukraine, not implement it to the actual geography of the region or something.. :? [\quote]

I had wondered that myself.

Fyreheart, I don't know for a fact exactly what my coastal defenses would be made up of, but as I've had time to prepare, they will be fully operational. Major coastal defenses consist of small base-like areas with various weapons systems, such as vertical launch systems, 18 inch guns, advanced SAM sites (such as the Skymer system), and other naval defense provisions. These are located in most crucial coastline areas, such as near Sevastopol and other naval cities.

OOC: how many miles of coastline do you have?

Ferrussia, should I start moving stuff to the Bosporous Strait? I mean, the Dardanelles is your first line of defense, and the B is your second. :)

Belem - 2,782 km (UKRAINE INFORMATION (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/up.html))

IdP - Thanks for making it official. :) However, becuase war has not been declared, I will refrain from firing on ships in the Strait for now. Move to Ferrussian waters, and don't worry - I've got plans.

Alrighty then. :D

Ok, just one quick question, if I sent my grav-fleet to the Dardanelles Strait...would I be in Ferrussian firing range or not?

Dammit, I don't know what to do.....

I will offer you this, we don't fire on each other and we don't use each other as cover if we end up on different sides. I will also offer to rescue any of your troops near my ships and return them to you after the conflict unharmed.

Just wondering... who owns that little island in the Sea of Mamara?

On another note, the tactical situation here looks like a defender's dream. Incoming fleets would have to make their way through two separate narrow straits.. unless they could get many good missile salvos in from a ways away on the defensive positions, trying to pass through there would be near-hopeless.

Note that, even without defenders, moving a large battle group or fleet through those straits would take quite a long time anyways...

BTW, you never did reply to my message on the main thread, Ferrussia. Did you miss it, or was I too off topic? Perhaps I should have kept it in the same hemisphere... 8)

So - how far are we going with the geography of the field of battle? Is the Mediterranean and Caspian Seas where they are? How far are you from Fyreheart?

Something I forgot to include in my posts on the main thread:

I have F-101's flying constant patrols over my fleets that are by Ferrussian waters. Sorry, but it was like 3am, and I was tired.

Also, Ferrussia, at what point on the map is maximum firing range of your coastline?

Something I forgot to include in my posts on the main thread:

I have F-101's flying constant patrols over my fleets that are by Ferrussian waters. Sorry, but it was like 3am, and I was tired.

Also, Ferrussia, at what point on the map is maximum firing range of your coastline?
Hmm, what's the stats, etc for the F-101?

The F-101 Pulse Fighter
http://ghoul.flipcode.com/savers/fighters/fs-05.jpg
Specs:
-Length: 39 feet
-Wingspan: 16 feet
-Armor: Solid titanium, 2 1/2" inches thick
-Top speed: Mach 1.9
-Armament:
- Two missile launchers, holds 8 cruise missiles apiece
-2 pairs of pulse cannons, capable of 3 shots per second each. Can burn through 4" solid steel, or 1/4" titanium. Burns to 3000 degrees F.
-Range of weaponry: 30 miles for pulse cannons, 80 miles for cruise missiles
-Easy repair
-Crew: 1
-Has a 0.05 kiloton nuclear device that destroys craft in case of crash - manual operation by pilot, with 30 second delay
-In addition to standard powering methods, the F-101 is capable of solar regeneration of the cells that power the pulse cannons
-Vertical takeoff

Hmm, what are the "pulse cannons" and "cruise missiles", exactly? I'll see what Ferrussia think about this.

Time for him to use the huge Phoenixes :twisted:

Specs for SubFleets:

http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/villerainamo/Rubicon.jpg

2x Nightingale-Class Battlecarrier

Contractor: Deep Fire Industries
Role: Battlecarrier
Type: Air/Sub craft carrier
Crew: 2100
Length: 434 meters
Beam: 190 meters (wingtip to wingtip)
Height: 79 meters
Displacement: 326,000 tonnes (full ballast & reactor mass)
Max speed: 650 knots
Collapse depth: 15,000 feet
Powerplant: Fusion reactor
Propulsion:
Primary: 2xAquaSpace R-100 Hydrogen burning
rocket engines
Secondary: 6xAquaSpace HJ-340 Hydrajets
Air wing: Maximum of 70+ aircraft
Sub wing: Maximum of 50+ sub-craft
Armament: 48xTorpedo tubes, 36xSupercavitating
cannons, 50xSLBM Launch tubes

50x VK-26 Chimaera
http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/villerainamo/db_Wide201.jpg

Contractor: Deep Fire Industries
Role: Strike sub-fighter
Crew: 1
Length: 20.2 meters
Wingspan: 14.1 meters
Height: 4.2 meters
Weight: Empty: 72,000 lb
Max supercav weight: 105,000 lb
Maximum speed: 795 mph
Collapse depth: 3,300 feet
Powerplant: 2xAquaspace C-13 Hydrajets
2xAquaspace R-41 Hydrogen burning
rocket thrusters
Range: 1900 miles
Armament: 2x25mm supercavitating cannons
4 miniature supercavitating torpedoes on two
internal launchers, additional 4 miniature
supercav torpedoes on external hardpoints.

50x VK-43 Hurricane
http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/villerainamo/dramius2.jpg

Contractor: Dramius-Arms
Role: Sub-Bomber
Crew: 2
Length: 23.4 meters
Width: 8.7 meters
Height: 5.2 meters
Weight: Empty: 87,000 lb
Maximum supercav weight: 122,000 lb
Maximum speed: 720 mph
Collapse Depth: 4,800 feet
Powerplant: 3xAquaTech HJ-32 HydraJets
2xAquaTech R-78 Hydrogen burning
rocket engines
Range: 2,600 miles
Armament: 2x30mm Supercavitating
cannons, 3 Internal launch bays each
capable of carrying a single capship
killer torpedo, 4 external hardpoints
capable of carrying V-143 torpedes,
demolition rockets or 2 more capship
killer torpedoes

12x Drathar-Class Heavy Attack Submarine
http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/villerainamo/Drathar.jpg

Contractor: Dramius Arms
Role: Heavy Attack
Crew: 350
Length: 195 meters
Beam: 50 meters
Height: 33.4 meters
Displacement: 67,500 tons (full ballast & reactor mass)
Max Speed: 68+ knots
Collapse Depth: 9,300 feet
Powerplant: Fusion reactor
Propulsion: 4xAquaTech HJ-280 HydraJets
Sub-Craft: 1 Typhoon Assault Transport
Armament: 10xTorpedo Tubes, 8xSupercavitaing
Point-Defense cannons, 20xSLBM Launchers,
1x650mm Supercavitating cannon

********
There you have it. That's my SubFleet!

Eh....this is slowly getting a little too future tech for my liking.

Eh....this is slowly getting a little too future tech for my liking.

I agree - and this is my RP! :?

Diminix, most (if not all) of what you have posted is far too future-techish for this RP.

OFFICIAL RP TECH-DATE: 2005 or below

:? Sorry, but I've been very strict about not doing future-tech RPs, and from my experience, most of the "quasi-future tech" (i.e. near future tech, and tries to come in on modern tech wars) tends to be incredibly frustrating to RP with, and degrades the quality and balance of the RP. I've talked to Fyreheart already, and I'm still not sure what to do about his F-101s: they're obviously not 2005 tech, but at the same time, they make up a significant portion of his Air Force. I myself am opposed to them, but his Air Force's dependence on them makes me hesitate to just ignore or ban them from the RP.

Any suggestions?

Any suggestions?

RP them with modern tech weapons and ocmponenets (i.e. missiles, normal torpedoes, UNGUIDED supercavitating rockets, etc)?

Eh....this is slowly getting a little too future tech for my liking.

I agree - and this is my RP! :?

Diminix, most (if not all) of what you have posted is far too future-techish for this RP.

OFFICIAL RP TECH-DATE: 2005 or below

:? Sorry, but I've been very strict about not doing future-tech RPs, and from my experience, most of the "quasi-future tech" (i.e. near future tech, and tries to come in on modern tech wars) tends to be incredibly frustrating to RP with, and degrades the quality and balance of the RP. I've talked to Fyreheart already, and I'm still not sure what to do about his F-101s: they're obviously not 2005 tech, but at the same time, they make up a significant portion of his Air Force. I myself am opposed to them, but his Air Force's dependence on them makes me hesitate to just ignore or ban them from the RP.

Any suggestions?

just lower the tech level on them or have the replaced with something like an F-22 or F-35

just lower the tech level on them or have the replaced with something like an F-22 or F-35
Well, I'd say that if this is 2005 tech, F-35s would be the "maximum", since techinally the X-35s are still in a "Beta" stage.

I think the F-35s can be deployed now but they are waiting to deploy the F-22 first.
Kinda like how the army developed the land warrior which is supposed to go into production next year but they already developed soldier 2020 and are waiting to put that into production once the landwarrior gets fieldtested so they can see what they need to add to soldier 2020.

Well, I use slightly above 2005.

I use F-35B's instead of Harriers, I use Meteor Missiles, and Asters. Eurofighters, and the such.

2006 is too much?

Personally my timeline is 2016, but most (95%) of my tech are 2005-ish.

Diminix: Probably Ferrussia meant the tech level, not teh actual timeline (a minor difference might be excluded)

Yeah but the tech isnt that far ahead. It's around 2006-2009 or 2010..tech..

And..the....gravfleet? Thats good enough for you people?

Daisy cutters cant be fitted in a bombers bombay because they are too big, they are dropped from heavy transport planes because they are about the size of a bungalow.

I believe you misunderstood what I said. *Points*

...similar to Daisy Cutters...

You can be sure, if I had Nukes (and wasn't an anti-WMD country). Your fleet would be made short work of. Besides, I have some nicely modified conventional ICBMs that could drop some sizable non-nuclear weapons on you.

Daisy cutters cant be fitted in a bombers bombay because they are too big, they are dropped from heavy transport planes because they are about the size of a bungalow.

I believe you misunderstood what I said. *Points*

...similar to Daisy Cutters...

You can be sure, if I had Nukes (and wasn't an anti-WMD country). Your fleet would be made short work of. Besides, I have some nicely modified conventional ICBMs that could drop some sizable non-nuclear weapons on you.

ICBMs arent tactical weapons they are strategic and you do realize an ICBM launch would be regarded as an NBC attack.

I've talked to Fyreheart already, and I'm still not sure what to do about his F-101s: they're obviously not 2005 tech, but at the same time, they make up a significant portion of his Air Force. I myself am opposed to them, but his Air Force's dependence on them makes me hesitate to just ignore or ban them from the RP.

Any suggestions?




If I can make some suggestions, most of the specs for the F-101 aren't terribly overtech. His length and wingspan are OK, as is his speed. His missiles are OK (similar in concept to the JSOW, which is being tested now). The pulse cannons aren't terribly more damaging than a modern 20mm cannon; if the range is cut back a ways, they ought to be decent. The easy repair isn't out of whack. The crazy detonator thingy is kinda far outa line, though :!: Vertical takeoff obviously isn't an issue. The only other issue is the 2.5" solid titanium armor; obviously that's kinda freaky.

Ok...I'm assuming everyone's still okay with gravfleets, right?

The pulse cannons aren't terribly more damaging than a modern 20mm cannon; if the range is cut back a ways, they ought to be decent.
Actually, with the range cut off a bit, no. Since I doubt that the beam could actually bend, it would be very hard for Fyreheart's F-101s to acually aim the cannon when someone's chasing their tail. Many missiles has a good "off boresight capability" (simply meaning you don't have to line your aircraft up much with the enemy one to shoot a missile, since missiles are manuverable), but cannons? Hmm...

The only other issue is the 2.5" solid titanium armor; obviously that's kinda freaky.
Maybe a few successful shots of a Phoenix would :twisted: But I'd generally agree. An entire airframe with another thick layer of titanium (yes, I do know titanium is very strong while light) would make the plane too heavy anyways.

Actually, with the range cut off a bit, no. Since I doubt that the beam could actually bend, it would be very hard for Fyreheart's F-101s to acually aim the cannon when someone's chasing their tail. Many missiles has a good "off boresight capability" (simply meaning you don't have to line your aircraft up much with the enemy one to shoot a missile, since missiles are manuverable), but cannons? Hmm...


Omz, I'm not quite sure what you said there. Obviously projectiles from a 20mm, 30mm, or 'pulse' cannon can't bend their trajectory, save the effects of gravity, but wouldn't this simply require you to lead your target? Besides, given his armament as a whole, I'd say his primary target using this plane would be ground- and sea-forces (making it more of a strike fighter, but that's not important), in which case thes 'pulse' cannons would serve him well - just like the 20mm Vulcan cannon and the 30mm GAU-8 cannon serve modern strike fighters well.



I would like to note that somebody replied to a message of mine! Yee-haw! Never mind it was about yet another person's air farce, but I'll take what I can 8)

ICBMs arent tactical weapons they are strategic and you do realize an ICBM launch would be regarded as an NBC attack.

I'm not getting into this stupid Conventional ICBM argument again. Personally, I don't care if you regard it as an Monkey attack. Truth is I don't have any WMD (I include NBCs in this), I do have Conventional ICBM, and I use them.

Regard it how you like. After Dyelli Beybi's Nuclear Strikes against my nation, my Missile Defense Network has only improved (not to mention the allies I've got helping me defend against nukes). You couldn't get a Remote-Control Airplane into my territory without it being shot down. So send your 70863487373457547376 Million nukerz attack against me. I dare you.

I don't think you'll be pleased by the result, when my tanks roll into your capital.

Rukemia, if you could provide some statistics for the gravfleets, that'd be nice. If the capabilities of something are pretty close to modern tech, they (and other things) might be allowed.

Diminix, most of what you posted seemed more like 2015-2020ish, but if you make some valid arguments, they'll be considered.

Most of the major problems with them include:

Nightingale-Class Battlecrusier
-Max speed: 650 knots
-Collapse depth: 15,000 feet
-Powerplant: Fusion reactor
-I'm assuming it can go underwater and fly? In which case, that'd be another problem.
-It's far to big to be able to fit into most ports - if any.

VK-26 Chimaera - if someone who knows about supercavitation could let me know what of this is very-near-future viable, I'd appreciate it. I seem to remember Hydrogen-burning engines (sounds like a fuel cell, no?) requiring oxygen.

VK-43 Hurricane - same as above, although I'd like to add that I'm moderately certain external hardpoints would mess up supercavitation?

Drathar-Class Heavy Attack Submarine
-Powerplant: Fusion reactor


As for the F-101's pulse cannons, I suppose that if they are similiar in destructive capabilities to a 20mm Vulcan, I wouldn't have too much of a problem with it, assuming they can't just keep firing and firing forever.

*sigh* I would much rather have preferred to not deal with this and have a nice, modern tech RP. Oh well...

ICBMs arent tactical weapons they are strategic and you do realize an ICBM launch would be regarded as an NBC attack.

I'm not getting into this stupid Conventional ICBM argument again. Personally, I don't care if you regard it as an Monkey attack. Truth is I don't have any WMD (I include NBCs in this), I do have Conventional ICBM, and I use them.

Regard it how you like. After Dyelli Beybi's Nuclear Strikes against my nation, my Missile Defense Network has only improved (not to mention the allies I've got helping me defend against nukes). You couldn't get a Remote-Control Airplane into my territory without it being shot down. So send your 70863487373457547376 Million nukerz attack against me. I dare you.

I don't think you'll be pleased by the result, when my tanks roll into your capital.

Do you use missile vs. missile defense or Laser vs. missile defense?

Diminix, most of what you posted seemed more like 2015-2020ish, but if you make some valid arguments, they'll be considered.

I would say that is more like 2050-2060ish, especially with the 650 knots (above Mach 1; ships in 2005 cannot supercavitate to Mach 1. If they can, they probably can't manuver much). With a submarine able to carry 70 aircraft and able to carry 50 SLBM (Ohio can only carry 24) and 48 torpedo tubes (what diameter are they anyways?) I would say it is unacceptable for modern tech of any form.

Again, with the fighters, although I do not know that much about supercavaitation, I'm most certainly sure that "modern tech" supercavitating weapons cannot manuver. The Shkval, a supercavitating rocket, is unguided. I am also sure that supercavitating torpedoes, if produced in RL, would also be essentially "semi-unguided" and cannot manuver. At least, not in a modern tech period.

Do you use missile vs. missile defense or Laser vs. missile defense?

Any ally has a space fleet defending me from Orbit. Another one has aircraft on call to shoot down any missiles launched at me.

Basic information on the Missile Defense Network is highly classified. Although, it is believed to mainly be main up of Missile Batteries. Still the Imperium has been experimenting with laser weapons (as has the US; successfully I might add), so the possibility that there are laser defenses is likely. It is also likely that Missile Guidance Jammers are in use as one Dyelli Beybian ICBM that broke through the network did detonate in the Caribbean Sea instead of on land as did the other two that broke through the network.

In all Dyelli Beybi and allies launched 200 Missiles. All were accounted for counting the three that broke the network and allied air patrols.

you realize you can't use that orbiting space fleet in this war cause its modern tech.

And a fighter jet would have a hard freaking time shooting down an ICBM thats going mach 24.

Anyway if you launch an ICBM against me ill respond with Nukes and I know how to circumvent most of those defenses the destruction rate will be lower but its more of a fear attack.

And a fighter jet would have a hard freaking time shooting down an ICBM thats going mach 24.
It goes Mach 24 in space, that is. It doesn't really go mach 24 once its warheads falls back into the atmosphere.

On a related note, even MIRVs will be able to be engaged (by various new proposed BMD systems), not mentioning that the USN has developed a missile that can engage ICBMs in space/low orbit.

And a fighter jet would have a hard freaking time shooting down an ICBM thats going mach 24.
It goes Mach 24 in space, that is. It doesn't really go mach 24 once its warheads falls back into the atmosphere.

Well Omz, I think it actually might go faster when its inside earth's atmosphere, aside from the resistance and friction it will encounter it is being helped by gravity.


On a related note, even MIRVs will be able to be engaged (by various new proposed BMD systems), not mentioning that the USN has developed a missile that can engage ICBMs in space/low orbit.

There are a lot of missiles that can shoot down ICBMs, including versions of the Aster that I use.



What I think Belem means is the fact that one plane will not be able to react to a threat that may come from anywhere, at anytime over a Very large country when going against a Mach 24 missile.

Well Omz, I think it actually might go faster when its inside earth's atmosphere, aside from the resistance and friction it will encounter it is being helped by gravity.
Actually, I think that ICBMs are actually the fastest at the terminal phase (burnout). But ah well, I'll go look.

There are a lot of missiles that can shoot down ICBMs, including versions of the Aster that I use.
Well, not exactly. Many are also more geared to intermediate/short-range ballistic missiles than actual ICBMs.

Ok I'm sure the sub carrier can only be underwater and not fly. For the Drathar class

The Drathar represents the more traditional line of the navy. It is an attack submarine
with no supercavitation capability but instead uses 4 heavy hydrajets for propulsion.

Found Here: http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/villerainamo/Index.htm

I'll ditch the subcarriers subfighters and bombers, but keep the heavy battle submarines. And also keep the 3rd H.D. Fleet:

(10)Guided Missle Frigates
(10)Guided Missle Cruisers
(10)Relentless Class Trimaran Destroyer's
(10)Los Angeles Class Attack Submarines
(10)Ohio Class SSBN Submarines
(10)Iowa Class Battleships

Ok? Although while it looks big, it is still kind of small. 16 of each warship besides submarines and aircraft carriers. Diminix likes Submarines and therefore has a big submarine stock.

Gravships are pretty much big, bulky, hovering ships on the battlefield. The only true advantage they have over conventional ships is their armor, which is extremely thick, making them rather difficult to take out completely. Their arsenals aren't to different from a coventional fleets, standard missiles, kinetic missiles, missile rods and AA cannons. They're very reasonable, they couldn't just completely crush a fleet with ease.

Rukemia, if you feel its important to include the gravships rather than sub in another conventional fleet, I suppose it would be alright - I'd have to talk it over with Fyreheart. For simplicity's sake, however, it may just be easier to have a third conventional fleet. Your call.

Diminix, I have few objections to the Drathar subs without supercavitation - thanks for understanding.

As for ICBMs, there's little relevance to the thread right now, so we can probably end the conversation. :wink:

A small request:

Please, could everyone give an ETA for their fleets (including pro-Ferrussian ones)? Not an RL time reference, but in the RP. I'd like to get moving on the naval standoff, and it'd really help to know what fleets will arrive when. A Ferrussian CBG is joining the IdP fleets, (which I'll RP soon) so there's a significant naval threat at the end of the Bo-whatever Strait.

Thanks.

Well, I would assume very soon. I haven't really given it much thought. My time tables work on how I am feeling at the moment.

The tension with my fleet will come from the fact that is completely unaligned at the moment. Hopefully making a good RP situation...maybe not.

Agrigento, it's been good thus far, sorry for not responding to IC posts - but there's been little to respond to. When they approach the Black Sea, however, it should be very interesting. Just keep in mind that it has been publicly announced that Ferrussia and associated powers are authorized to fire on any unauthorized ship entering the Black Sea, and your fleets and government (should) know that.

Hey, the n00b here has quick question.
since I am in the same 'region' as Ferrussia. How do I go about establishing my actual position(like literally where I am located)?
I dont want to step on anyones toes as far land claims.
Thanks, it would just make it easier as my naval deployment would be almost immediate to the area, since again I am in the same 'region', I just want to be as up to speed as you seasoned RPers'.

Here's a list of the naval forces I mobilized in the IC thread:

TSS Saratoga Carrier Battle Group:

1x Nimitz-class carrier
5x Ticonderoga-class AEGIS cruiser
5x Arleigh Burke-class destroyer
5x Oliver Hazard Perry-class Frigate
15x Fleet oilers with supply capability
15x Replenishment At Sea ships
5x Seawolf-class SSN

Aircraft of the Saratoga:

24x F-14D Tomcat carrier defense fighters
36x F/A-18E SuperHornet multirole attack fighters
4x S-3B Viking ASW aircraft
3x E-2C Hawkeye
4x EA-6B jammers
4x HH-60H ASW/CSAR choppers


TSS Forrester amphibious group:

5x Wasp-class amphibious assault ships
2x Battleships (Calarcan design)
5x Ticonderoga-class AEGIS cruisers
5x Arleigh Burke-class Destroyers
5x assualt-modified frigates (another Calarcan design)
5x Seawolf-class subs
10x fleet oilers/suppliers
20x Replenishment at Sea ships
5x minesweepers
10x RO/RO's

Forces carried by the assault ships (total of all Wasp-class ships in the group, NOT the per-ship loadout:

80x AAAV amphibious assualt craft/APC's
92x MH-92 Blackgull transport choppers
36x CH-53E SuperStallion heavy choppers
9x LCAC
10x Commanche choppers
8x F-35B VSTOL CAS aircraft
22x Seahawk ASW/CSAR Choppers (basically a naval Balckhawk)
6 Marine Rifle Companies (3,840 Marines)
30x MT-280 Fire Support vehicles
6x M1A2 MBT's
30x 155mm howitzers
6x MLRS




TSS Shellback amphibious group:

Same makeup as the Forrester group.


TSS Sussigkeiten sub attack group:

5x Seawolf-class SSNs



Any issues, or anything you don't recognize, just ask. IIRC nearly all the ships listed are in service with the USN IRL; the rest should be modern-tech easily.

Will post armament of the Marine complement tomorrow, time's kinda short for me FTTB.

Last thing, I'm really hoping to get a much larger land force into the area. Could it be assumed for the sake of smoothnes that larger-capacity dedicated troopships could be included with one of the amphibious groups? Anybody got ideas as to how I'd do this?

Again, with the fighters, although I do not know that much about supercavaitation, I'm most certainly sure that "modern tech" supercavitating weapons cannot manuver. The Shkval, a supercavitating rocket, is unguided. I am also sure that supercavitating torpedoes, if produced in RL, would also be essentially "semi-unguided" and cannot manuver. At least, not in a modern tech period.

Supercavitating torpedoes have been built in real life, and use jet fuel for propulsion. I won't venture to guess what kind of fuel would be needed to propel a submarine to the 110 mph necessary for supercavitation.

There's really not a good modern-tech solution to the problems involved in supercavitation, so Diminix, it'd probably be best if you replaced your subfleet with more conventional naval forces.

TC, as has already been posted, the Ferrussian government is waiting on allowing foreign ground forces into Ferrussia for the time being. If and when the enemy fleets break through into the Black Sea, Ferrussia will allow (and encourage) foreign powers to airlift ground forces into Ferrussia.

Skibereen, I would assume that you're in the rough location of Moldova or so. Are you supporting Fyreheart or Ferrussia? It could make the RP incredibly interesting if you were supporting Fyreheart. If you haven't made up your mind, I'd highly suggest supporting Fyreheart, just because it would make it that much more interesting, but if you're supporting me that's fine.

Well originally I was supporting you, of course Fyre was also in the same region, so I was like the mouse among the cats you know.
Fyre moved, so supporting you does kinda uneven things out, I will rework my political stance to make it more interesting, I have only Rped little in this because I am a little nation and a RL small nation does not just jump up and slap superpowers.(well most dont).
I will re-work my nations position.

Skib, me and Ferrussia were thinking.

Either you support me, and I use your nation to invade from, or

You oppose me, and I invade you to start the war.

Whatcha think?

What about the Agrigentan fleet moving in thru the Sea of Marma. That could trigger something..

This would turn into a war after all? Very interesting.

Sadly I can't help currently (being invaded myself in a private RP) to aid Ferrussia in defense. However, I MIGHT offer intelligence to aid Ferrussia from Fyreheart & invading forces' invasion(used quite a few ships Fyreheart is using, ie Soyuz III Battleship :twisted: )

I'll see how this goes. Still, missed a good RP opportunity :(

Cud someone please post the sides?

Skib, me and Ferrussia were thinking.

Either you support me, and I use your nation to invade from, or

You oppose me, and I invade you to start the war.

Whatcha think?

Note, Skibereen, that you don't have to agree with either. Both are ideas that are interesting to RP, but it's not a "which do you want" decision.

Isla: what if, hypotheticly at this point, I decided to support Ferrussia and by extension so did Aquilla, would you open fire on his ships anyway?

Arigrento, if you decided to swing your position around, and Aquilla did too, then you'd need to announce that, and I could authorize your assets or not. :wink:

What's your username on SCC? I'm goin batty trying to figure it out..

Arigrento, if you decided to swing your position around, and Aquilla did too, then you'd need to announce that, and I could authorize your assets or not. :wink:

What's your username on SCC? I'm goin batty trying to figure it out..

SCC?

Oh..nevermind. :?

Oh..nevermind. :?

Lol, okay. I am curious though.

Oh..nevermind. :?

Lol, okay. I am curious though.

simcitycentral.net It's a site that has a large set of forums, and I thought you had a username there.

*Anywayz*

Eh? Sounds cool. I really need to pick up 4. Looks like christmas is right on time this year :wink:

_________________________________

Now I am going to bed in a few minutes, so I won't RP until tom.

Goodnight.

At certain point here, Ferrussia is going to need to know what i actually have in the water I imagine a sat in orbit should given them a picture. so let me enlighten mr.sattelite
10 Pursuit Class Destroyer
Dimensions: 172 * 17 * 9
Speed: 41 Knots
Equipment :
AEGIS2
Sky Watch
Type 1030
Kite Screech
Eye Bowl
Tin Man Rangefinder
Neptun GPS system
Weapons :
16x Sea Dart
1x Silex
2x Tomohawk
1x II/320mm
5x 20mm Phalanx CIWS

50 Hive AA Frigate
Dimensions: 148 * 15 * 6, 6' armour
Speed: 28.75 Knots
Equipment:
Sky Search: Cylinder Blanc, 1022
Sea Search: LW08, Low Sieve
Targeting Systems: Type 1030 HAS/STIR
Weapons:
AA missiles: 30x Sea Dart, 6x Sea Wolf
Guns: 5x 20mm Phalanx CIWS
Missiles: 12x RBS15M

200 Hawk MTB
Dimensions: 39*8*2, no armour
Speed: 42. Knots
Equipment:
Sky Search: Cylinder Blanc, 1022
Sea Search: Low Sieve
Targeting Systems: HAS/STIR, Tin Man Rangefinder
Weapons:
AA missiles: 3x Sea Wolf
Guns: 2x 20mm Phalanx CIWS
Missiles: 2x RBS15M
Torpedoes: 20x TP16 Torpedoes, 4 tubes

I aquired these as a legitamate purchase, along with some support vessels for logistics.

I will trickle info about ground forces, but since Ferrussia is our neighbor they are already completely aware that the skibs on the ground will predictably be engaging in asymetrical warfare should it come to that.

Ok, so the two straits aren't in your territory, they're international paths to travel inside of it? I had asked this question before but never recieved an answer so I assumed it the two straits were in your territory, should I edit my post?

Rukemia, yes, but only change the "outside of Ferrussian waters" and comments about shore batteries - there are no coastal defenses anywhere near the Strait.

Also, do your fleets have carriers, or no?

Diminix, sorry, I forgot to put you on the map. I'll change it in a minute. You've only got a submarine fleet, right?

No. I've got alot more than subs..:P


(2)Aircraft Carriers
(6)Armored Falcon Class Submarines
(6)Ticonderoga Class Cruisers
(6)Relentless Class Destroyer's
(6)Beluga Guided Missle Frigate

(10)Guided Missle Frigates
(10)Guided Missle Cruisers
(10)Relentless Class Trimaran Destroyer's
(10)Los Angeles Class Attack Submarines
(10)Ohio Class SSBN Submarines
(10)Iowa Class Battleships

Rukemia, yes, but only change the "outside of Ferrussian waters" and comments about shore batteries - there are no coastal defenses anywhere near the Strait.

Also, do your fleets have carriers, or no?

Ok, I'll edit it, and yeah I've got a few carriers in my conventional fleet, but none in gravship.

All the ships of the imperialist faction are either in the Med or the Sea of Marmara, correct?

To explain my actions so far.

Fyreheart contacted me of aiding him in the situation, because I am in ICON and he is in LAGD. I told him I would send naval support, of which would include a sneak attack by sending ground troops and small artillery through the straights on freighters under a "neutral" flag.

However, since Ferrusia and Isle de Penguianata both rejected it - back to the drawing board.

Sorry, TGS, but it really wouldn't be plausible that I would simply allow an ICON-affiliated freighter into my waters - period.

Ok Ferrussia, before I respond to your post about telling me to back the hell up, you do know that my fleets are no longer moving foward and our just outside of your fleets estimated maximum range right?

Alright. Here are the promised comments from the last IC post involving the proposed positions of TC forces:

- The technical difficulties and paper jam thing was just me playing Cover My Ass for my OOC stupidity via IC post.

- Obviously, the proposed arty positions won't be a huge threat to cap ships, but I think they could do some decent damage if camouflaged well and were able to fire at high trajectory such that their shells hit the enemy's decks. After all, most captains don't appreciate 155mm shells going off on their decks, hitting their bridge, etc., and the effect on enemy troopships, if any, could be rather nasty.

- The intel request was because we haven't been within radio range, AFAIK, to receive any info addressed to 'friendly nations', and I'm not sure if my flet is 'in the loop', so to speak,IC.

- If you see any other major sticking points, just ask.

- I had a lot of fun shoveling today. I'll have even more fun tomorrow morning. If anyone ever tells you that life is grand in the Northeast, punch them. Seriously.

- I had a lot of fun shoveling today. I'll have even more fun tomorrow morning. If anyone ever tells you that life is grand in the Northeast, punch them. Seriously.

I feel your pain

Ok Ferrussia, before I respond to your post about telling me to back the hell up, you do know that my fleets are no longer moving foward and our just outside of your fleets estimated maximum range right?

Ah. Your post sounded like you're moving forward. The message would still apply if you've actually begun to enter the Bosporus Strait, but if you're waiting outside the entrance, I suppose such a radio communication would not have been sent. Let me know which is the case, and I'll edit my post if it's the latter.

"Well, as far as what's in the water right now, they've got ten destroyers, fifty anti-air boats, and about two hundred torpedo boats. All armed with Phalanx CIWS."

Phalanx CIWS in RL are pertty weak even against French Exocet (AM39 version). Take the USS Stark incident in the Persial Gulf for example. Its 20mm shells wouldn't even penetrate some of the new Russian missiles with protective armor anyways. That's why the USN is now seeking options to replace them with the new Millenium Gun concept.

On a sidenote however, I'm quite sure Ferrussia has a stock of Firebolt and Thunderbolt missiles (which I also use, along with another nation), and they could be deadly with their supersonic speed AND sea-skimmering characteristics [that is, fly at an altutide of let's say... 15 meters or less] (which can outrun many Aegis systems in RL, that's what SS-N-22 Sunburns are designed for. About sea skimmering however, CIWS will have little time to engage them anyways [once the radars can finally pick them up from the surface clutter], conbined with the speed.)

Okay, I'm going to sleep now. Hopefully I won't miss too much.

Goodnight all.

Omz, thanks, that'll be very good to know in the future. Copiosa Scotia certainly isn't hurting for quality cruise missiles. In fact, missile design is one of our biggest strengths. Nevertheless, with all the AA ships he's got, I think I'll do it the way Pierce planned it.

Off to bed myself. Don't n00kz0r my fleet while I'm away. :wink:

Omz, thanks, that'll be very good to know in the future. Copiosa Scotia certainly isn't hurting for quality cruise missiles. In fact, missile design is one of our biggest strengths. Nevertheless, with all the AA ships he's got, I think I'll do it the way Pierce planned it.
You are welcome. Just thought I'd share some information incase the cries of "you can't shoot down all of the 400 harpoon missiles I've launched!!!11" or "it is godmoding that your missile cannot be shot easily!!!111".


1st Mechanized Division
10,000 soldiers armed with M4s and M40 frag grenades
300 M1A2 Abrams tanks
300 T-95 tanks
600 M113 APCs
500 IAVs
400 Humvees
300 Paladin Howitzers
100 AH-64 Apaches

1st Fighter Division
100 F/A-22 Raptors
100 F-117 Nighthawks
100 F-15 Eagles

EDIT:

All support aircraft are incorporated to the division. :wink:

Some notes.
Mechanized Infantry Division: although you do have these APCs, Humvees, etc. you should also have other support units, such as:
-Trucks (comes in 5 ton mainly): good ol' trucks. Carries supplies, munitions, and can tow artillery pieces, etc. that requires to be towed.
-Air defence vehicles. Such as Avenger Humvees (armed with Stingers), etc. Must have if the enemy sends aircraft to bomb your forces. Some towed Hawk SAMs can also be ideal.
-Recovery Vehicles (Hercules). What do you use when your tank is damaged on the battlefield (say... mechincal error), and you need to tow it back?
-Venerable Black Hawk utility helicopters, and the like.

In my opinion, you could also give up many of the Paladin artillery pieces for some rocket-firing MLRS systems.

Air units:
1. If you are using F-117 for air-to-air operations, then I'd say that it won't really work. Even though the "F" designation refers to "fighters", the F-117 is more like a strike aircraft. It only carries bombs.
2. If you want to go with the American way, you could call it an Air Wing. But typically an air wing consists of 72 aircraft :P (The Chinese and Russians use "divisions" and "Regiments" in their organization of aircraft).

I thik my particula air defense is mentioned because of its density.
5 AA frigates per Destroyer.
The phallanx is a multitude weapon, one would have little chance against sea-skimmers however the chances are increased with the number of system brought to bear on a target.
Plus it was said to make the RP more interesting as everyone knows my military is....shall we say diminutive compared to most everyone else.

The phallanx is a multitude weapon, one would have little chance against sea-skimmers however the chances are increased with the number of system brought to bear on a target.
Although more Phalanxes could "relieve" the other Phalanxes, but when the Phalanxes ever gets to engage anti-ship missiles (if they can, that is, they would only have a few minutes (if they are subsonic) or just a few seconds (if they are supersonic), which makes it nearly impossible to engage 2 or 3 at virtually the same time. Coupled with its extremely short range and the fire control system's inability to engage most fast flying and extremely low flying missiles, there's no way for a Phalanx CIWS armed ship to have their Phalanx to shoot down more than 1 or 2 fast-flying anti-ship missiles targeted at it (out of let's say... 4 or 5) at all.

HOWEVER, modern addons like the Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) point-defence missile (basically stinger-like heat-seeking missiles designed to counter low-flying anti-ship missiles) makes the possibility to shoot down some anti-ship missiles a "reasonable" level.

ICish Hello everybody...we just noticed several hundred ships sitting gridlocked in our beautiful bay and would like to have you all evacuate immediately.

Western Asia controls Turkey as a major body province of the United States of Western Asia. Attempted hostile landings will be met with the utter destruction of invading forces. Attempted hostile ship movements will be met with sinkings and subsequent bills for the removal of your scrap from our beautiful bay.

Please try to figure out who owns lands before you pass...the Dardanelles, like many strategic straits (WA controls at least part of two in the ME...guess where the other one is...) tend to be closed to hostile military vessels...this time is no different.

Thanks to CS for making me aware of the attempted passage.

WA, just an OOC tidbit: Fyreheartian, Rukemian, Diminix, and (possibly) Belemian fleets are in the Sea of Marma at current (see the map of the Bosporus Strait, link is on the first post of this thread).

Also, Fyreheart and I have closed the RP, so your actions may or may not be ignored... :? (Even if you do own Turkey, it can be argued that the RP is on land similar to the Black Sea region. Sorry if that's what happens, I'd like to see you in the RP, but it's already overloaded as is.)

Also, few of those mega subs could even make it through the straits...it gets very shallow in the Bos and tricky currents make travelling up the middle the best option. Any of those subs would be, literally, 'sitting ducks' to any and all ASuW weaponry available to my forces.

This is why I like to use AUSVs (semi-autonomous minisubs without crews but with a sure striking and recon capability).

It should be noted that any strikes launched within the Bos, or near WA territory, would be considered an act of war.

With so much of my military available around the ships, any acts of war vs. WA would be a BAD idea.

OOC: I understand that it's a bit late to enter, but CS informed me of the action...IRL, you would have a hard time getting one small warship, let alone several hundred, so close to the country without some concern.

I've seen the map, I know the situation (having just skimmed ~20pages of RP and OOC notes), I'm trying to do the best ATM to gain what control is possible.

If I can't enter, then that's understandable, but these things would be nice to have certain people RP realistically.

Western Asia,

I have nothing but respect for you, but me and everyone else involved have literally spent hours planning and executing this roleplay. It's actually been several weeks in the making. Also, as Ferrussia stated, we have closed the roleplay.

I'd appreciate if you could let us continue with no interference from you.

If it is so wished, I will back out.

Fyre says one vote. Ferr has the other vote. I'll recant (here) the posts in the other thread upon Ferr's vote...automatically.

I guess that's it. Cya soon.

Sorry, WA. Perhaps you could RP diplomatically - we will be quite proud to be using our recently purchased F/A-18IE/Fs - but the RP has been underway to the extent that your sudden involvement invalidates much of what has happened.

Wish it could have worked out better. I'd have loved to have you in this. :( Like Fyreheart, you have nothing but my respect.

Sorry!

Fyreheart, if you are reading this, several thousand of our troops are remaining inactive in the main roleplay. We need you to post to bring us to the war zone. Thank you illustrious leader.

Goth, you must have missed my post saying to send your troops. :wink:

Skib and G-F, let's move the OOC (<-- it's OOC, not OCC. :wink: ) discussion here.

G-F, what do you mean by that? If you have OOC questions to ask, ask 'em here.

Skib, I suppose I could say that a mechanized division has been deployed to the border, but mostly reservists are keeping watch on the border, and we're hoping to not add to hostilities. We were also intending to keep this nuke-free, but if RPed well and only used under dire circumstances (IE, you wouldn't have to charge now - Fyreheart's sending in his own trooops) they may be accepted. Doesn't neccessarilly mean you should drop the RP, but it may need some tweaking.

trust me, you have no idea what those nukes mean, you will like this.

and your current border condition will actually work better, with what i have in mind. i just needed to think aboutit for a tick.

trust me, you have no idea what those nukes mean, you will like this.

Okay. Consider yourself trusted. :)

Fyreheart, we have sent our troops after your messageof go-ahead the day is ours. Thank you for the go-ahead. but, we need your further posts to actually transport our troops to the battle zone. We cannot do this ourselves. Thats what I understand unless i am missing a post you did like on page 13 or something. So if you would not mind......read our long post on page 12. Then tell us what to do.

Umm....Ferussia sorry about the OCC OOC and all that. MY leaders are idiots. no, this is my first ever RP game. So thanks for the understanding. I wanted to ask you, do you represnt the real Ukaraine? Is everyone a real country area? If so, can i chose my area, although you may have already guessed.

G-F, I use the political boundaries and cities of Ukraine, but nothing else. Other than the fact that I use a Ukranian map, I run my country completely differently and with a completely different past and present. (Don't worry about the OOC/OCC thing, I'm just being anal and letting you know)

If you have a particular RL nation that you would like to use for the purpose of maps, etc, feel free to do so, although it may cause some conflicts when RPing with people who also lay claim to the same RL country.

And in case no one noticed, the fecal matter just impacted with the rotary air-moving device. :wink:

Skib, are you attacking west into southern Ferrussia, or north into western Ferrussia? And are you claiming to be where Romania and Moldova are?

Just moldova, small country like me.
heading west and south, as you will note you are to the southern border of moldova as well.

Skib - sounds good, although since you have a navy (and Moldova is landlocked) we'll say you have a small part of Romania that extends to the ocean. Sound good?

Another question - is the RP with the guy waving down the truck referring to my truck, seeing him and stopping him? If so I'll pick up that RP.

Raysia - check TGs, your wish has been granted. :D Don't think you'll be allowed in on a military role, however.

Actually I based off the premise thatRomania allowed me use of their ports, bieng this war began I am addingthe problem to myself of no longer having ports.
Yeah the guy crossed your border it is your truck, which is why i had to stop I cant RP your troops.

Ferrussia, my fleets are stopped and not moving into the B-strait, I shoulda been a little bit more specific, but yeah.

(1000 ICBMs and 4800 cruise missiles. Ferrussia/IdP/whoever else, have a nice day. :D )
Um... Just "ICBMs" and "cruise missiles"? What kind are they? If you are using vintage Atlas ICBMs and Mace cruise missiles however, I don't think they wilk work well :P

The Prowler switched on it's main weapon, the electronic warfare computers. Hopefully being able to scramble the enemy fleet and temporarily put them on shutdown.

Actually, EA-6B Prowlers are more like radar jammers. They use their AN/ALQ-99 tactical jammers to receive radio signals, identify it, and make the enemy confused by having the enemy radar displaying a lot more "fake contacts". However, it's disadvantages are since some high-power, modern radars are still able to be more immune to jamming, they can still identify you. Further, jamming also shows the enemy your location.

Since Ferrussia have those IR-guided RAMs on board, he can use those :twisted:

OMz, this is the IDP sub fleet in the sea of marma.

OMz, this is the IDP sub fleet in the sea of marma.

Ferrussia, can we work out a deal for the usage of your ports for repair, medical facilities and the such?

Also my ships will require replenishment. The ships I brought with me are really unsubstantial for prolonged engagements such as this and since the strait is closed off, and it seems it will be for sometime, I think it would be in our best interests to work out an IC plan for your help in this matter.

OMz, this is the IDP sub fleet in the sea of marma.
Sorry, my mistake about what fleet you are trying to "electronically attack".

Since my fleet is in roughly the opposite direction in which Fyreheart's ALCMs were launched, can I assume my fleet's safe? The seekers only scan +/- 45 degrees, right?

Skibereen, responding to your question in the war thread. Copiosa Scotia's Sixth Fleet has been in the Black Sea since shortly after Belem announced its intention to blockade Ferrussia. We were originally stationed in the south central Black Sea, and moved to follow your fleet when Ferussia gave us our choice of assignments.

Since my fleet is in roughly the opposite direction in which Fyreheart's ALCMs were launched, can I assume my fleet's safe? The seekers only scan +/- 45 degrees, right?
I guess so, if he didn't target your fleet that is.

ohYEAH!, right right. sorry this is my first real RP. so keepingtrack is kind of hard for me, thanks.

ohYEAH!, right right. sorry this is my first real RP. so keepingtrack is kind of hard for me, thanks.

Not a problem. Heck, I still have trouble with it, especially in RPs like this where everyone is making good, detailed posts. It can be tough to glean the information you really need from them.

Since my fleet is in roughly the opposite direction in which Fyreheart's ALCMs were launched, can I assume my fleet's safe? The seekers only scan +/- 45 degrees, right?
I guess so, if he didn't target your fleet that is.


He wasn't really specific with who he targeted... IIRC the info on who he was targeting was something like "Ferrussia/IdP/whoever"... in one way that implies he was targeting everyone allied with Ferrussia, in another it implies that he was targeting those blocking his path to the Bosphorous Strait (my fleet's still back by the Dardanelles...).

I'm kinda hoping FH checks this thread so he can tell me OOC whether I'm being attacked yet...

He wasn't really specific with who he targeted... IIRC the info on who he was targeting was something like "Ferrussia/IdP/whoever"... in one way that implies he was targeting everyone allied with Ferrussia, in another it implies that he was targeting those blocking his path to the Bosphorous Strait (my fleet's still back by the Dardanelles...).
No, and yet I'm still unclear on what the ICBMs targeted, plus .

On another note, since his plane can carry 8 of those (a F/A-18E would probably can only carry 2 AGM-86 Harpoons [1145lbs each for air launch, 488lbs warlead]), I wouldn't expect these missiles' warheads to be big enough to cripple a heavily armored ship in a few shots anyways.

Skib, can you give me a rough rate at which your missiles are firing from the AA ships?

Ferrussia, can we work out a deal for the usage of your ports for repair, medical facilities and the such?

Also my ships will require replenishment. The ships I brought with me are really unsubstantial for prolonged engagements such as this and since the strait is closed off, and it seems it will be for sometime, I think it would be in our best interests to work out an IC plan for your help in this matter.

Just wanted to add something to this before I go to sleep.

If you wish I will deploy ground troops by air, but I need information for that as well.

Goodnight all.

Divide 600 by ffty you get twelve, i figure they can fire 6 missile vollies a minute so three hundred missiles a minute from the combined 50 AA ships, however they only carry six hundred, so their entire ordinance of guided missles would be depleated after ....fire ticktock 1min-fire. I dont not have an unlimied amout of missiles, my six hundred was my load.
The 20 tomohawks against Ferrussia are Destroyer based, only two per Destroyer, bam, offensive missles are spent for me.
all I have now is phallax, AA missiles(Wolfs,darts, no sparrows, though a wolf can intercept a missile)
OH do you know what a "SILEX" is?

Alright, I'm out for the night.

Skib, are you firing on the Ferrussian 3rd Carrier Group, blocking the Bosporus, or are you firing on the 1st Light CBG, which was deployed near the Skib fleet as soon as we saw it?

Agrigento, your fleets and replensishment ships have full access to Ferrussian ports, although Sevastopol and Mykolayiv are a bit overloaded at the moment. If you wish to assist in the ground war, it'd be greatly appreciated, and you can fly troops in via Kiev or Kirovohrad and then deploy them to the areas of conflict (i.e., the Skibereen/Ferrussian border).

TC, I think Fyreheart was firing at fleets in or near the Bosporus Strait.

Sorry for the late answer Ferrussia, my Admiral would be firing at the 3rd, as he want the straits open, it so one salvo, and huhuhuh we'resunk.

Just a quick question for Fyreheart, What is this

1 Red Dragon carrier - 400 planes, 300 F-101s, 100 F-62Bs

Is this really one ship ???

OOC: Just a quick appology to all of the nations involved here, I am going to be away from computer access for about 4 days this week. I hope this does not inconvience you all. I will do my best to get on line when I can and post losses and such.

Just a quick question for Fyreheart, What is this

1 Red Dragon carrier - 400 planes, 300 F-101s, 100 F-62Bs

Is this really one ship ???

Yes. Red Dragons are immense aircraft carriers, capable of holding 400 planes.

200 SLAM-ER type cruise missiles as well as 55 standard Harpoons
Actually, SLAM-ERs are actually modified land-attack missiles based on the Harpoon, designed to act as a standoff land attack missile. What you are looking for equivalent however, would probably be new AGM-84F Harpoon Block 1D, which are significantly improved ones with more capabilities.

200 SLAM-ER type cruise missiles as well as 55 standard Harpoons
Actually, SLAM-ERs are actually modified land-attack missiles based on the Harpoon, designed to act as a standoff land attack missile. What you are looking for equivalent however, would probably be new AGM-84F Harpoon Block 1D, which are significantly improved ones with more capabilities.

Well...on the site I got the information from it said that they could be used for sea atacks as well. But the again, maybe I misinterpreted it. Either way, good looking out and I'll edit my post to prevent any further debate.

Rukemia, sorry about the bad post timing, but I meant to leave the impression with my last post that as soon as I had contacted the IdP fleet by radio, we were packing up and leaving, and considering I just barely finished responding to your and Fyreheartian missiles, I doubt you could have reloaded so quickly. Just a few minutes after the strike, picking up as many survivors as possible, the IdP and Ferrussian fleets began moving north, so I don't think you could mount another strike so quickly. The planes would be well out of firing range of the Mavericks from the fleets, and my medium/long range air defenses are still in good condition - see above post. They would have been treated much the same, although depending on how far out they are, they may have some RIM-156 SM-2 ERs coming for them instead.

My fleet and IdPs are running full tilt away, and Fyreheart's plugging up the Strait (he hasn't posted going through, although I suppose he could once we started moving). Hope this helps you out, although you may need to edit a few things in your post. I'll do my best to respond later.

Rukemia, sorry about the bad post timing, but I meant to leave the impression with my last post that as soon as I had contacted the IdP fleet by radio, we were packing up and leaving, and considering I just barely finished responding to your and Fyreheartian missiles, I doubt you could have reloaded so quickly. Just a few minutes after the strike, picking up as many survivors as possible, the IdP and Ferrussian fleets began moving north, so I don't think you could mount another strike so quickly. The planes would be well out of firing range of the Mavericks from the fleets, and my medium/long range air defenses are still in good condition - see above post. They would have been treated much the same, although depending on how far out they are, they may have some RIM-156 SM-2 ERs coming for them instead.

My fleet and IdPs are running full tilt away, and Fyreheart's plugging up the Strait (he hasn't posted going through, although I suppose he could once we started moving). Hope this helps you out, although you may need to edit a few things in your post. I'll do my best to respond later.

My first assault on your fleets were done almost entirely by my grav-fleet, which has pulled back and is currently reloading. My conventional fleets only launched a portion of their missiles compared to my grav-fleet launching all of their stock. When I read your post responding to Fyreheart's missile attack, I thought it was just for his missile strike and not mine, since mine was meant to have occured at a different time, maybe an hour or two after his. I should've been more specific, and I'll try to work out something in my post that will accommodate our mutual misunderstanding.

goodnight all.

Try and postpone nuclear armageddon until I come back, okay?

Rukemia - I'll do my best, too. I'm not sure there's much I can edit, but I'll try to respond to some of your movements in my next post.

Diminix - I take it you mean conventional ICBMs? I perhaps should have noted that both Fyreheart and I have agreed to keep this nuke-free, although Skib's RP is a bit of an exception, as I have quite literally never seen nukes used so well in an RP. Period. (Not to mention, it doesn't look like they'll be used.

Fyreheart - A couple of things, unfortunately... First off, the Agrigentian fleet is in the Bosporus, so you can't really get past his fleet quite yet. And unless you are purposely moving to insanely close range to his fleet, you could hardly have moved into the Strait at all.

Also, I'm not seeing a reply to the some 600 RIM-156 missiles launched at your fleet, nor the AMRAAMS, nor the Sea Sparrows that I said would be launched as soon as you came over the horizon. :? Sorry to pile it all on right there, but you just backed this fox into a corner, if you will, and it's awfully pissed off.

Finally - I thought there were three Red Dragons? Otherwise there should be 3 missiles to a ship.

Sorry if I seem unfair - if you have any questions, don't heistate to ask.

Just a quick question, am I being ignored ? Just feeling a little left out with the limited response that I am getting. I may be being to sensitive here.

celeborn , I am not ignoring you, but I was wondering where you are. I lost track of you.

Destroyers and frigates fire Harpoons (168 missiles) and Mk-46 torpedos (138).
Uh, you might want to remember that the range of the Mk.46 torpedo is only 10.8 km. Even with ASROCs, you'd still have to be less than 40 km from the enemy ships to even think about using them.


*Wishes he actually had some assets closer to the theater so he could have some influence on this battle*
Oh well, can't have everything.

Destroyers and frigates fire Harpoons (168 missiles) and Mk-46 torpedos (138).
Uh, you might want to remember that the range of the Mk.46 torpedo is only 10.8 km. Even with ASROCs, you'd still have to be less than 40 km from the enemy ships to even think about using them.


*Wishes he actually had some assets closer to the theater so he could have some influence on this battle*
Oh well, can't have everything.

Thanks for the advice. I am afraid that I am a little uneducated when it comes to modern sea combat, but I am doing my best :) . By the way, am I fireing to few missiles from my ships, I see the other guys posting much higher number than me for launches.

celeborn , I am not ignoring you, but I was wondering where you are. I lost track of you.

Ferrussian side of the straights trying to prevent fyreheart from making a full entry.

*Wishes he actually had some assets closer to the theater so he could have some influence on this battle*
Oh well, can't have everything.

In the meantime, your assistance would be appreciated in the ground war. :wink:

At any rate, you seem to be one of the better qualified military know-hows, so feel free to comment OOCly on anything we post - I know I am not 100% sure about the numbers I've posted.

In fact, even confirmations that I'm doing something right would be nice. :D Thanks.

Would anyone like to take control of my navy from wed. morning until sunday night ? I am afraid that I am going to have to be away.

Would anyone like to take control of my navy from wed. morning until sunday night ? I am afraid that I am going to have to be away.

No offense, but it doesn't look like much will be left (if any) after Fyreheart's half-sucicidal attack... :(

Would anyone like to take control of my navy from wed. morning until sunday night ? I am afraid that I am going to have to be away.

No offense, but it doesn't look like much will be left (if any) after Fyreheart's half-sucicidal attack... :(

Thankfully I have some very good defensive systems and alot of my AAG groups are still in support postions for my fleet. I am still in this fight :)

Would anyone like to take control of my navy from wed. morning until sunday night ? I am afraid that I am going to have to be away.

No offense, but it doesn't look like much will be left (if any) after Fyreheart's half-sucicidal attack... :(

Thankfully I have some very good defensive systems and alot of my AAG groups are still in support postions for my fleet. I am still in this fight :)

Celeborne, your fleet should be junk metal after what I just hit you with.

Sorry, I can only get once a day during the weel but with my job and my kids it is hard. Luckily it seems most of you are on about the same time.
My nukes I was orginally going to use(because they are so small, I forgetthe nations name who sold them to me,I will have to check, butt hey as i have posted before small even for theatre size, then it occured to me how boring some nukes would be, and it would screw my country up, and Diplomatic resolution post-conflict would be difficult if I had nuked somebody, so using them in a stand off capacity seemed more the idea.
And since, I only have warheads, which can be independently armed(I checked) with no missiles to deliver them, the 'bait and switch' with the battle lines seemed a good Idea.
I study unconventional asymetric tactics, so I dont RP conventional combat well, I do subterfuge good, because i understand it.
But Strategy is for suit and ties, tactics is for the down and dirty.
Thanks Ferrussia for the compliments, I am doing my best to be entertaining 'i believe that is the real point of this' plus to offer a varient on what most n00bs do in warRP.
I appreciate the encouragement.
Nice going all of you, very enjoyable.

losses:
45 aircraft
2 Hospital Ship
2 Support ship
10 Tornado class assualt ships
2 Multi purpose Amphibious Assualt Ship
4 Landing Platforms, Dock
4Landing Ships,Dock
2Amphibious assult ship
2 fast combat support ship
the Tsunami aircraft carrier

After 4000 missiles and 168 kamikazis, thats all? I think that attacks a bit unrealistic too.

RUKEMIA AND DIMINIX:

WAKE THE HELL UP AND HELP ME!!!

4000 missiles? daaaamn, that is huge. really huge.
I like being a little nation, I get to rollver and die in battle, you guys have to argue whose 23rd fleet assualted whose 85th Carrier group and what not.
4000,who lotta missile to not be floating on empty.

losses:
45 aircraft
2 Hospital Ship
2 Support ship
10 Tornado class assualt ships
2 Multi purpose Amphibious Assualt Ship
4 Landing Platforms, Dock
4Landing Ships,Dock
2Amphibious assult ship
2 fast combat support ship
the Tsunami aircraft carrier

After 4000 missiles and 168 kamikazis, thats all? I think that attacks a bit unrealistic too.

The Attack unrealistic, how so ?

I get to rollver and die in battle, you guys have to argue whose 23rd fleet assualted whose 85th Carrier group and what not.

:lol:

Destroyers and frigates fire Harpoons (168 missiles) and Mk-46 torpedos (138).
Uh, you might want to remember that the range of the Mk.46 torpedo is only 10.8 km. Even with ASROCs, you'd still have to be less than 40 km from the enemy ships to even think about using them.


*Wishes he actually had some assets closer to the theater so he could have some influence on this battle*
Oh well, can't have everything.

Thanks for the advice. I am afraid that I am a little uneducated when it comes to modern sea combat, but I am doing my best :) . By the way, am I fireing to few missiles from my ships, I see the other guys posting much higher number than me for launches.
It depends on the ships your using. Unfortunately, it's hard to keep track of who has how many ships, and as finding out the actual stats on ships can be quite difficult (I seem to be about the only one who makes an effort to let others know what my ships have. Most others assume we all magically know this).
For your ships, the numbers are okay, but don't use Mavericks on large naval forces. With the short range of that missile, it's stupid to even try, and anyone that does will have to RP extreme losses (glares at Rukemia, who should be short 40 F/A-18s, with none having gotten close enough to launch). Also remember that unless they're at relatively short range (less than 15 km), submarines will not fire more than one full salvo of torpedoes (one from each tube). They have to guide the torpedoes to the target at longer ranges, preventing further launches, and that can take over half an hour (!) at maximum range.


For Fyreheart's attack, he's using too many Harpoons. His aircraft were defending the fleet, and there's no sign that any of them would have been armed with Harpoons. He's in a bit of a Catch-22 here. If they are all armed with 8 harpoons each, he has to RP greater fleet and aircraft losses than he has, as those aircraft would suffer a significant performance loss with that kind of payload, and if they aren't, well, he doesn't have quite the fleet killing power he thought. I can't speak for the ships' stats, but he is definately going overboard on the missiles, and your losses won't be too high, as he can't salvo all those at once, so the missiles are coming in waves that will be easier to engage, and Tomahawks aren't that difficult to shoot down at short and medium ranges.
Also, he's claiming his fighters are armored and hard to shoot down. If that's the case, he absolutely must RP damaged fighters. So he's got a large number of damaged aircraft that need to be repaired and shouldn't be in the fight at all.


If you want a good source for quickly looking up information on naval weapons, I'd recommend these:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/index.html
http://warships1.com/index_weapons.htm - they have good information on just about any naval gun ever made, as well as good stats for torpedoes, and British and US missiles.
For conversion purposes in the stats: 1 yard = 0.9 meters. 1 nm (knot) = 1.85066 km (km/h)

4000 missiles? daaaamn, that is huge. really huge.
I like being a little nation, I get to rollver and die in battle, you guys have to argue whose 23rd fleet assualted whose 85th Carrier group and what not.
4000,who lotta missile to not be floating on empty.

I agree.

I assume that in war time my budget is essentially frozen?
never mind, I will play it that way reguardless.

Destroyers and frigates fire Harpoons (168 missiles) and Mk-46 torpedos (138).
Uh, you might want to remember that the range of the Mk.46 torpedo is only 10.8 km. Even with ASROCs, you'd still have to be less than 40 km from the enemy ships to even think about using them.


*Wishes he actually had some assets closer to the theater so he could have some influence on this battle*
Oh well, can't have everything.

Thanks for the advice. I am afraid that I am a little uneducated when it comes to modern sea combat, but I am doing my best :) . By the way, am I fireing to few missiles from my ships, I see the other guys posting much higher number than me for launches.
It depends on the ships your using. Unfortunately, it's hard to keep track of who has how many ships, and as finding out the actual stats on ships can be quite difficult (I seem to be about the only one who makes an effort to let others know what my ships have. Most others assume we all magically know this).
For your ships, the numbers are okay, but don't use Mavericks on large naval forces. With the short range of that missile, it's stupid to even try, and anyone that does will have to RP extreme losses (glares at Rukemia, who should be short 40 F/A-18s, with none having gotten close enough to launch). Also remember that unless they're at relatively short range (less than 15 km), submarines will not fire more than one full salvo of torpedoes (one from each tube). They have to guide the torpedoes to the target at longer ranges, preventing further launches, and that can take over half an hour (!) at maximum range.


For Fyreheart's attack, he's using too many Harpoons. His aircraft were defending the fleet, and there's no sign that any of them would have been armed with Harpoons. He's in a bit of a Catch-22 here. If they are all armed with 8 harpoons each, he has to RP greater fleet and aircraft losses than he has, as those aircraft would suffer a significant performance loss with that kind of payload, and if they aren't, well, he doesn't have quite the fleet killing power he thought. I can't speak for the ships' stats, but he is definately going overboard on the missiles, and your losses won't be too high, as he can't salvo all those at once, so the missiles are coming in waves that will be easier to engage, and Tomahawks aren't that difficult to shoot down at short and medium ranges.
Also, he's claiming his fighters are armored and hard to shoot down. If that's the case, he absolutely must RP damaged fighters. So he's got a large number of damaged aircraft that need to be repaired and shouldn't be in the fight at all.


If you want a good source for quickly looking up information on naval weapons, I'd recommend these:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/index.html
http://warships1.com/index_weapons.htm - they have good information on just about any naval gun ever made, as well as good stats for torpedoes, and British and US missiles.
For conversion purposes in the stats: 1 yard = 0.9 meters

Thak you very much, you have no idea how much I appreciate this. I have been bouncing back and forth to varius naval websights trying to keep my attacks and defenses realistic (including using a number randomizer with a percentage base for accuracy to see how many missiles I shoot down.) Hell I even spent a good deal of time working out the payload and range for the Hypersoars.I think that part of the problem that I am having is that I am posting single salvos of missile launches and it would appear that others are launching thier entire arsenal at once, I am not sure how that works...

Would anyone like to take control of my navy from wed. morning until sunday night ? I am afraid that I am going to have to be away.

No offense, but it doesn't look like much will be left (if any) after Fyreheart's half-sucicidal attack... :(

Thankfully I have some very good defensive systems and alot of my AAG groups are still in support postions for my fleet. I am still in this fight :)

Celeborne, your fleet should be junk metal after what I just hit you with.

Well I guess since you decided to point this out in 2 threads :roll: I will call my fleet dead and move along. It seems odd that some one with a super aircraft carrier and firing 4000 missile salvos would call me unrealistic, but whatever.

For one, my F-101s are armed with Harpoons as a standard weapon.

Second, I have over 1100 aircraft in the area. Not all of them are in the air at once or attacking at once.

Third, Okay, so they launch in salvos. He'd still take more losses.

Ships don't carry reloads for major missiles, so a full salvo is the entire arsenal. They're probably claiming to have large VLS arrays that you don't (for example, my Carrack has 256 VLS cells). The exception to that rule is small missiles such as Sea Sparrows and RAMs. There will usually be a couple reloads for those.

Ships don't carry reloads for major missiles, so a full salvo is the entire arsenal. They're probably claiming to have large VLS arrays that you don't (for example, my Carrack has 256 VLS cells). The exception to that rule is small missiles such as Sea Sparrows and RAMs. There will usually be a couple reloads for those.

My F101s have 8 Harpoons standard. I launched 4 each. Half the arsenal.

Disregard last attack, I guess my fleet was destroyed. Ya'll have fun.

THIS...this right here is the kind of stuff that is making me consider quitting this game.

I challenge your losses, POLITELY, and you quit the roleplay?

It seems to me that some people, not naming names, are just pissed off that I have better shit.

</angry rant>

Disregard last attack, I guess my fleet was destroyed. Ya'll have fun.

THIS...this right here is the kind of stuff that is making me consider quitting this game.

I challenge your losses, POLITELY, and you quit the roleplay?

It seems to me that some people, not naming names, are just pissed off that I have better shit.

</angry rant>

Look, I am not stomping off mad, I am not "Pissed that you have better shit". I am a little upset because your posts did not seem all that polite, and because I don't think that your attacks are all that realistic. I like you, I always have. I started having my questions with the Red Dragons and then saying that my attacks were unrealistic and posting that you did not care for my losses in two threads, compounded by launching salvos that would have depleated the stores of most modern navies, not once but repeatedly was enough for me. I still like you as a person, but I don't care for the direction that this role play was going, I am going out of town, and I thought the best thing to do for the sake of the game was to excuse myself.

*sigh*

I like you too. The post in the other thread was an accident.

The thing is, I'm not a modern navy. I am a heavily armed Imperialist, and Red Dragons are used by many nations.

Sorry if I seemed mad. I needed to blow off steam. :oops:

Skib vitals(chech the CIA world factbook for land mass, Moldova)
Ground Forces.
3000 81mm mortar teams= 1 mortar team every 11.123km
The 81mm mortar has an effective range 5700m no where in my country are you out of mortar range.
Shoulder fired Stinger teams 500, 2 launchers per team.
you could encounter 2 stingers every 66km.effective range 1 to 8 km.
CFAR M4 Light Anti-armour Weapon (LAW) 10,000
A light anti tank weapon every 3.33 km, each with an effective range of 600m.
CFAR M5 medium anti-tank weapon 5000
A medium AT weapon every 6.66km, each with an effective range of 2000 meters(Crookfur based this weapon off the UK TRIGAT system).
SAM10 Falconer medium range SAM system 1000
you could encounter a SAM every 33km, each has an effective range of 50km with a ceiling of 10000m.
72 million citizens, with an armed population with any able bodied adult having served two years in the military, you are looking at a minimum of 1million hostiles(that is being conservative as you are in my yard).
Do the math for your self, not an easy patch of ground.
Population 72,000,000+33,371km= 2,157.56 people per square kilometer.

*sigh*

I like you too. The post in the other thread was an accident.

The thing is, I'm not a modern navy. I am a heavily armed Imperialist, and Red Dragons are used by many nations.

Sorry if I seemed mad. I needed to blow off steam. :oops:

No prob, it happens. We are still friends, and I may send in reinforcements after I get back.

For one, my F-101s are armed with Harpoons as a standard weapon.

Second, I have over 1500 aircraft in the area. Not all of them are in the air at once or attacking at once.

Third, Okay, so they launch in salvos. He'd still take more losses.
As I said, that's 8 externally mounted missiles, which is 10,000-13,000 lbs depending on the model. This will significantly increase weight and drag, and thus seriously hurt maneuverability, and I seriously doubt a fighter that size would be able to carry more than 4 to begin with. But, considering the other godmodding specs (63.5mm all-around titanium armor and still flying, 48+ km guns, up to 16 cruise missiles, able to take off and land on carriers with all that weight, etc), I don't see how it can make it any less absurd. And yes, I apparently missed the post with those stats, or I would have certainly responded.
Considering all this, I'd say you have to RP additional losses in previous engagements (which were already rather low to begin with), as your aircraft were not operating at peak performance. This means that they won't have shot down as many of those incoming missiles in the first strike, allowing some additional damage to your fleet, and they'd have suffered heavier losses against enemy fighters and SAMs.

losses:
45 aircraft
2 Hospital Ship
2 Support ship
10 Tornado class assualt ships
2 Multi purpose Amphibious Assualt Ship
4 Landing Platforms, Dock
4Landing Ships,Dock
2Amphibious assult ship
2 fast combat support ship
the Tsunami aircraft carrier

After 4000 missiles and 168 kamikazis, thats all? I think that attacks a bit unrealistic too.

The kamikazis are almost irrelevant, really. Nowadays, defensive systems are advanced enough that most of your fighters would be shot down before they got close to the ships. Besides, it's very difficult to pilot one of today's fast-moving fighters into a moving ship. Most pilots would probably miss.

The situation's almost resolved, good..

Also, just to insert something as mentioned before, I take Fyreheart's carriers are running out of aircraft-launched munitions since he has already used 4800 Harpoons, even BEFORE the sinkings of the carriers? I wouldn't even say that a carrier could hold that much cruise missiles along iwth a supply of Sidewinders, etc. for aircraft anyways.

About the F-101s, I take that Ferrussia, Thirtycaliber, and I had some problems with it, we wrote a request/etc. to Fyreheart here, and Fyreheart didn't respond?

Ferussia, keeping in line with the fact that the Gothenburg-Franc Army is relatively unexperianced, and the fact that it is lead by aristocrat officers, we have ignored the Skibereen request to stay put and are blindly groping through the countryside twords the front. Some of the units, notably VIII and II Corps are doing well and have managed to cross the Skib/Ferrus border. The VIII in my previous posts is being led by a rash and blindly aggressive Marshal, who has the only map in our army. The VIII and II are planning to attack the city of Odesa in your south west. If you would like to fight a battle there, pleasee post your troop deployments, ect. I was hoping that we could arrange something along the lines of the VIII attacking blindly and being cut up, with inexperianced Gothenburg-Franc soldiers breaking under air fire. Then I was hoping for the II corps to relieve the VIII and actually mangage to battle its way into Odesa. You can decide then if you want to continue with house to house fighting or surrender the city or whatever. I just hought this would be a cool scenario to run.

Skibereen, I think your posts are awesome. I really like your response to a half a million Goths trying to push through your countryside. This might throw off your plans for a giant killing box, but I don't think the Ferussians should have a problem in smashing our momentum. Especially when Skibereen civillians are tying us up. I enjoy the scenario where Gothenburg-Franc soldiers fight Skib civillians hand to hand. Do you wish to continue in this aspect of the story? I can get very in deapth on this issue. I enjoy the fierce and realistic aspect of the deteriorating relations between our nations, and how many of your civillians pose a threat to my troops, who are supposed to be batling Ferussians. It will surley lead to mass confusion and the eventual breakup of Gothenburg-Franc plans. In fact, I hope you wouldnt object when leaderles bands of Gothenburg soldiers do all of the historical horrors, ie execute peacful civillians, pillige, and ect., because they are so helplessly frustrated. Also your civillian resistance is leading people back home in G-F to antiwar demonstrations. Only through Fyreheart motivation, will my troops stay in the war if this scnario is still developed.

Well, Fyreheart, I do think you are really pushing the limits of realism with a 400 plane aircraft carrier and 8 harpoons on one plane.

Okay, here we go...

1) Red Dragons are accepted by many people on NS. They were developed by someone, I can't remember the name, and they are widely used in my Navy.

2) My F-101s are accepted by many people on NS. They are already loaded once they are on a carrier. Why do you think I have vertical takeoff? A carrier doesnt have enough room for a plane that size and weight to do a traditional takeoff.

3) About the missiles - I have tons of Ions and HSVs im this war. HSVs hold 80 Tomahawks apiece, and Ions hold 30 apiece. That's 110 with just one of each.

4) Ferrussia had some holdups about my F-101s, but he let them be used. Also, no one ever wrote a request to me unless I did not see it.

Any other questions? Or can we continue this roleplay now?

Okay, here we go...

1) Red Dragons are accepted by many people on NS. They were developed by someone, I can't remember the name, and they are widely used in my Navy.

General Dave

3) About the missiles - I have tons of Ions and HSVs im this war. HSVs hold 80 Tomahawks apiece, and Ions hold 30 apiece. That's 110 with just one of each.

Theres that other thing that holds 500 at a time. :)

1) Red Dragons are accepted by many people on NS. They were developed by someone, I can't remember the name, and they are widely used in my Navy.
Yes, it is accepted by many people, and I also do. But as I can still remember the Red Dragon sales thread by General Dave back in June/July, other people also called it godmoding. :P (although some were a bit arguable especially ones about it having 8 nuclear reactors, although the American Enterprise also had 8 ).

2) My F-101s are accepted by many people on NS. They are already loaded once they are on a carrier. Why do you think I have vertical takeoff? A carrier doesnt have enough room for a plane that size and weight to do a traditional takeoff.
Once again. But this time, they may accept it as future tech (2050-60-ish), but I doubt they will accept it as strict modern tech (2005> in most cases). But as said by Ferrussia, this RP's designated date is more like
We could still work something out, especially with the load and armor.
As well, with 8 Harpoon-sized missiles on the wings, I doubt that they can VTOL anymore. Yes, Harriers can take off VTOLly, but only if they are load-free or have an extremely light load.

3) About the missiles - I have tons of Ions and HSVs im this war. HSVs hold 80 Tomahawks apiece, and Ions hold 30 apiece. That's 110 with just one of each.

Actually, what I said was about the munitions carrying capacity of the carriers, not the weapon carrying capacity of the true combat ships.

Okay, here we go...

1) Red Dragons are accepted by many people on NS. They were developed by someone, I can't remember the name, and they are widely used in my Navy.

2) My F-101s are accepted by many people on NS. They are already loaded once they are on a carrier. Why do you think I have vertical takeoff? A carrier doesnt have enough room for a plane that size and weight to do a traditional takeoff.

3) About the missiles - I have tons of Ions and HSVs im this war. HSVs hold 80 Tomahawks apiece, and Ions hold 30 apiece. That's 110 with just one of each.

4) Ferrussia had some holdups about my F-101s, but he let them be used. Also, no one ever wrote a request to me unless I did not see it.

Any other questions? Or can we continue this roleplay now?
1. I never disputed them. I really could, and I'd probably win the argument, but I won't

2. No one who knows much about aircraft and their limitations would. You're just lucky that most RPers simply don't. I, on the other hand do. However, as it seems they've been accepted already, I'll go with them, so long as you accept the fact that they're still quite vulnerable to normal weapons (there are just so many vital areas I can think of that you can't possibly have armored), and I thank you for clearing up a few things about them. Some of the information you've provided will be quite helpful.

3. Never disputed the number of missiles. Type and the number fired off at once is another thing. Remember, you can't reload these ships without port facilities, so you've emptied most of your arsenal already. Remember, no matter how many you have, you can't fire off the same missile twice.

4. It was noted on this very thread, by several players.

I don't personally have a problem with the Big Targets... er, Red Dragons... but if there was any dispute over them, mentioning that they were developed by General Dave wouldn't really help your argument.

Gothenberg-Franc, refresh my memory. How many soldiers are in the II and VIII Corps?

I won't be replying to anymore posts tonight, as my cold seems to have taken a turn for the worse.

Hopefully I can sleep it off and be okay by tomorrow. Apologies.

Feel better man.

I won't be replying to anymore posts tonight, as my cold seems to have taken a turn for the worse.

Hopefully I can sleep it off and be okay by tomorrow. Apologies.
Didn't know you had a cold. Get the hell off! :wink:

Get better soon.

Copiosa, are you asking us this because you are sending a fleet to Odesa "coincidently" just as my men are approaching?

I would be honored if you would join the fray, but I would request that you agree to the scenario that I am trying to work out with Ferrusia. OK?

The VIII is being led by the arrogant young Marshal Charles Rene Bourbaki. It is a huge Corps, consiting of 64,621 men.

The II is led by the disciplined veteran Marshal Emmanuel Louis Pajol. It is considered one of the best Corps in the Army. It contains approx. 53, 137 men, counting in last nights few casualties.

I am still awaiting a Ferussian response.

Goth, your troop movement because of the conventional manne in which you play them would be obvious from even the most mundane recon.
Civilian word of mouth, and the High altitude recon aircraft that skib sams would not be able to shoot down.
You felt the need to explain yourself out of Character, oddly enough so do I,
I am really not belittling your army, but anyone who has served knows that soldiers who serve in primarily unconventional role, always look at conventional soldiers like clumsy children, and conventional soldiers typically look at 'spooks' like1muderers2snobs3less then soldiers because they typically thik too much for themselves to be effective in the group structuring of conventional troops.
So skibs holding asymetrical warfare in the highest esteem view the Goths as pompous, and pretty to look at but not much use other then for bullet catchers.
They would veiw your men as relying too much on fire power and not enough on their own ability.
So i am playing that way. I do however very much enjoy your plays, and also deeply apreciate you not knowing what is going on in my other posts.
Course, I am playing towards a diplomatic end, I might be the only one.lol.

Copiosa, are you asking us this because you are sending a fleet to Odesa "coincidently" just as my men are approaching?

Actually, it really is coincidental. I'd forgotten that it was Odessa you were approaching. In fact, I seem to have misunderstood which direction the invaders were attacking from, so if it's alright with all other participants, I'd like to edit my post and send the Skib fleet to Yalta instead.

I would be honored if you would join the fray, but I would request that you agree to the scenario that I am trying to work out with Ferrusia. OK?

Agreed. I was thinking that my 6th Marine Division could be part of the city's defending force.

Skib,

It is alot of fun to do this with you. I completley understand your comments. I am definatley trying to achieve the animosity between conventional and unconventional armies, plus the added discord of dealing with civilians. I love how your men think we are pompus bullet catchers and how mine think your lowlife cuttroats.

I also enjoy your diplomatic play. lol Thanks for the compliments. I try to realistically portray confusion and how my charachters have no idea whats going on with different situations (ie different posts).

Its a pleasure to fight you lol. Hopefully I picked an ok spot for the confrontation I feel is brewing between us. I am not too hot on my Gaelic. If you want you can give me a better name to use for the reandevous point than McNally.

Copiosa,

I am glad your moving the fleet. But I am also glad your leaving a division to fight. I am trying to make a map of sorts so people understand where the invasion is coming from. But anyhow my people fight in a real old-fashioned mannerism, just with some modern speed and equipment. We also have a honor bound fighting mentality. So, do you need any specifics about the force going to be attaking? Feel free to give me any input. It Ferussia, dosent respond soon, it might only be your marines between two Corps of Imperial troops and Odesa. If thats the case, we can coordinate it then.

Yours truly, Gothenburg-Franc

PS Can you give me info on your marines?

Copiosa,

I am glad your moving the fleet. But I am also glad your leaving a division to fight. I am trying to make a map of sorts so people understand where the invasion is coming from. But anyhow my people fight in a real old-fashioned mannerism, just with some modern speed and equipment. We also have a honor bound fighting mentality. So, do you need any specifics about the force going to be attaking? Feel free to give me any input. It Ferussia, dosent respond soon, it might only be your marines between two Corps of Imperial troops and Odesa. If thats the case, we can coordinate it then.

Yours truly, Gothenburg-Franc

PS Can you give me info on your marines?

Copiosa,

I am glad your moving the fleet. But I am also glad your leaving a division to fight. I am trying to make a map of sorts so people understand where the invasion is coming from. But anyhow my people fight in a real old-fashioned mannerism, just with some modern speed and equipment. We also have a honor bound fighting mentality. So, do you need any specifics about the force going to be attaking? Feel free to give me any input. It Ferussia, dosent respond soon, it might only be your marines between two Corps of Imperial troops and Odesa. If thats the case, we can coordinate it then.

Yours truly, Gothenburg-Franc

PS Can you give me info on your marines?

The Marines are the most elite non-special force in the Copiosa Scotian military (in which a regular infantryman's fighting ability is roughly equal to that of a US Marine). They are not a proper branch of the armed forces, as in the RL United States, but rather a part of the Navy, with one division assigned to each naval fleet. The 6th Division is made up of 17,000 men equipped with some of the world's most advanced arms and armor. It's only partially mechanized, due to its primary task as an amphibious landing force, and in defense of Odessa, most of the soldiers would be fighting on foot.

Coposia,

If Ferussia does not respond tonight, we are going to attack at firstlight tommorow. VIII corps will lead the assault. Either way, the scenario will still work the same. VIII will be hammered and will be relieved by II Corps, who will take the fighting into the city. Its just the particulars to work out.

Gothenburg-Franc

I'll set it up briefly, and leave it to Ferrussia whether he wants to support my troops.

Edit: I've managed to find a map of Odessa. It's in Russian, and not all that easy to read due to its large size, but it's all I've got at the moment.

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/commonwealth/odessa_map84.jpg

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

I will be leaving on a trip tomorrow, and MAY be unable to post between tonight and next Saturday (the 27th). Post all you want, but once Fyreheart "pauses" the thread (you'll know when it happens), it will remain paused unless I find out I can get online. So, keep checking the threads Saturday and Sunday, and if I post, the RP will resume. Otherwise, nothing is really to happen after tomorrow in the RP until next Saturday.

Thanks for understanding. Feel free to ask any questions or whatnot.

Coposia,

Unfortunatley, that is the worst map i have ever seen lol. Oh well, we can get it to make sense for this purpose.

Ferrussia and I talked on Aim. We are fairly sure that a good scenario is worked out. While I would prefer to keep this between us because of our availiabilityr, Ferussia says that they will be involved. So the situation of Odesa is paused until Ferrussia gets back. So we wait. We can deploy and all that, but no combat.

Gothenburg-Franc

NOTE

I finally found the specs for the HSVs, and it seems I've been UNDER USING them...

Heavily modified from stolen transport plans. Instead of being transporters of life, they would now be instruments of death - 80 VLS tubs for tomahawk cruise missiles and 6 quad launchers for Harpoon launchers packed within the ship. For air defense, 4 Sea Sparrow launchers are on each corner of the ship; the perfect ship for fast attack. It is also able to hold a Sea Hawk helicopter on the back, lucky engineering.

http://globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/images/tlv101_bigB.jpg