NationStates Jolt Archive

I'll gladly send my forces into war too, but I'll need a caretaker for them as I don't exactly have the time for a full-scale RP. Any takers?

The CPRD would be interested in having further engineers trained over-seas, specifically in the hydro-electric power generation field.

While DaKhiem has made no obvious official moves towards war over-seas many of Secretary Hotan's recent speeches before the masses of the republic have taken on a more general anti-imperialist edge, as opposed to the previous specifically anti-Christian fare.

One speech specifically mentioned Bonstock, though only to insist that their sort could over-run the entire universe without breaking the Choson People's Republic of Dra-pol.

It is no secret to any military observer that Dra-pol's massive military machine has next to no offensive capability, and that over-seas deployment in any large scale is beyond the republic, not that DaKhiem would readily admit such. The largest Drapoel military intervention in thousands of years of recorded history took less than two hundred Banat agents to Africa for a matter of weeks.

Secretary Hotan has offered the excess capacity of the Drapoel armour-manufacturing plants in East Islandia to the alliance should they be of potential use.

Marimaia will gladly send troops, but like Lost Hills I'll need someone to take care of them for me. I'll post the available troops once I've worked them out.

OOC: Whether I get a valid pretext for war depends on how a character RP of mine goes.

OH NO! NOT THE AZN Resistance! :shock:

OH NO! NOT THE AZN Resistance! :shock:

.....Oh no not the country I have never heard of with a 751 million population and less than 200 posts!!

OH NO! NOT THE AZN Resistance! :shock:

.....Oh no not the country I have never heard of with a 751 million population and less than 200 posts!!

Quick! Run for our lives!

OMG, the eyes are scary! If everyone looks like that in SilveryMinow, than I ought to to surrender then to face the populous!

I need the thread link real fast, i am going to be active in the war so I need someone to at least help me out, as for someone to lead armies into it, I think I still have a lot to learn in rp's and I would hope someone can step up to help.

I will have to recieve some Tank-Tech from Sino before I head on.
My Navy is Full Ready.
My Airforce is almost ready, needs more airstrips(ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO HELP)
Ground forces are ready.
Special Units all ready.
Missiles and Artillery needs more numbers, easily solved.

Hold on the war idea; the way i see it, Bonstock is not a threat;
i have at least ten divisions in East Asia, all of which are within two hours response time; also, i have enough fighter and naval support to knock out any Bonstockian ships and reinforcement, and add to that the fact that we have Hokkaido, Okinawa, and Kyushu under our control, that negates the importance of Bonstock's presence.

Our real threat is Red Tide. We will need a little mroe time to build up our forces, and until then, i ask you all to hold up on your horses and ship them to the East Pacific; if necessary, i will provide transport.

Then we will garrison ur forces on the islands and then we will take it from there.

I-I Captain.
Good, I will have enough time to upgrade, regroup, draft, and train all units. Please Clear up on the Why are we fighting for? I understand that we need to, but we must have to understand the same concept here. I have people say We fighting cause we have to. I say we should have a conference to discuss the matters.

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=110317&highlight=

^The Conference, we need to select a speaker first.

The first cause that we see is that Red Tide and Bonstock are imperialists, simply said. Given to them, we would see east Asia being taken over by the two nations, possibly even the world.

our second cause is that fact that Bonstock has an imperialistic history, and that we have already seen what they plan to do with Japan should they conquer ALL of it. THey plan to use the harbors as a base from which to station their forces and increase their manufacturing capability and overrun the rest of Asia.

Red Tide is just ultranationalistic, only he is willing to go imperialist. My strategy to deal with him is to have Sino consolidate his holdings in Japan so that he may keep Bonstock from taking over ALL of Honshu.

the joint occupation that i mention is going to have a very limited Bonstockian and Red Tide presence, being that i have a high rate of Japanese and Korean soldiers in my ranks who would take care of reconstruction, if not actual combat, in Japan.

OOC: Erm, are you sure? Red Tide's RPing always seems to be on the edge of godmodding. Are we sure we want an RP with him?

EDIT: Oh what the hell, let's go.

*bugged by the BSS*

REPORT
I have main control over Hokkaido and Northern Honshu sharing capabilities with Arigento. We are preparing for a major invasion force and seems Bonstock has good control of Kyushu. I see the point East Islandia.


The Conference will be held in Taipeng, Xiaguo/Taipeng National People's Hall. I propose that that will be the primary place for Major Conferences. I have put all security measures and has a great security force. The Taipeng Int. Airport is just a few kilometers away from the Conference Hall and 5 star hotels are provided. Transportation is also provided with the most comfortable Hong Qi's imported from Sino. Dining is also provided providing banquets and breaks. All nations atending conferences will have the National flag raised regardless of whether you are in the Alliance. I hope everyone will agree. *Smiles*

ooc: I don't have Kyushu. I just took Tokyo, and saved you quite a few thousand casualties.

il bumpo

(OOC: Been gone a while with various things)

The Shimatsu Foundation has made a great deal of progress in the field of geothermal energy; plans for their geopower plants are freely available to all Azn Alliance members. Work continues on improving the efficiency and output of current desalination facilities.

For those of the Resistance currently rebuilding Japann, the Resistance Development Fund is available should you need it.

bump?

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132246

Akibura captured!

Long Live the Red Terror! hehe

Well, nice work, Akibura will be on trail in Asian Alliance Court if agreed.

OOC:Asian area tag

If anyone has the time to answer, I'd like to know the current members and the type of organization the Asian Alliance has. I just need to know my surroundings, as NY is an Asian nation that is coming out of a technologically backwards anarchy and forming together under the a government with strong membership from the local animist priesthood. I've seen Xiaguo, Agrigento, Taiwan and East Islandia in Asian RPs and I'm wondering what North Yamani would hear of them, and other AA members, coming out of their isolationist state...

NO AzN pRyDe! :evil: WhErE wiLL you be when this trend subsides
when its fades and is denied by the world outside?

Unite this world rather than seperate human kind based on physcial or ethnic manifestations.

- 6ixth Nation (Dictatorship of 3merika)

OOC: Hudecia and South Dalania (now inactive) are also part of the AA. Taiwan would probably establish trade ties fairly quickly, and possibly military ties.

[OOC: Should have done this during the Japann war, but better late than never...]

The People's Republic of Spyr, having participated alongside our fellow Asian nations in defeating Bonstockian imperialism, would like to request permission to join the Azn Resistance.

United, we can move forward to greater peace and prosperity.

From North Yaman, Mioka-ro: A communication to the Azn Resistance

The High Council of the SFD, on conferring and reviewing the Azn Organization, has decided that the fledgling nation would like to establish diplomatic relations with the six(ooc:should the inactive be counted?) member nations, to promote Asian solidarity and defence.

The High Council would also like to make it known that Spyr, our powerful neighbor and ally, has guided NY to central government and unity. Spyr has, and is, aiding the smaller nations of the Lyong Penninsula in their efforts to modernize. This is why the Azn should consider Spyr as a new member, not only for their work during war time, but their more important work off the battlefield. The Spearguard would gladly follow our ally to defeat the powers that would threaten our, and other Asian nations, ways of life.

OOC: NY has encountered imperialist actions before, during the Glennite Crisis and the resulting Thelasian Imperialist actions towards Lyong. The people, though traditionally isolationalist, would see themselves allied with asian powers that probably follow similiar beliefs.

"The R.O.C supports the entry of Spyr and North Yaman into the AA, and would like to congratulate them in advance."

The Suunist People's Republic of Marimaia would also like to take this opportunity to support the entry of Spyr and North Yaman into the AA.

As head of the AA's Social Committee, we would like to remind the applicant nations that, should you be successful, you would become eligible for assistance from the Resistance Development Fund if you require it.

BOth nations are now:
IN.

OOC: Sorry I have been gone for a while... I might be on and off for the next while too...

I just got done 1 midterm and I have 2 more coming up within a week. I'm in university btw...

We congratulate Spyr and North Yaman. I hope our nations can work efectively and diplomatically to help develope and protect the free nations of the world.

We would like to welcome the new members into our fold with open arms.

:Communication to AA member nations:

From: The High Council of the Socialist Federal Dominion of NY

We would like to thank the Asian Alliance for accepting us and we hope to prove an asset in furthering our common cause against imperialism. It is with this in mind that we bring this alliance news of imperialist actions from a nation the AA just recently exchanged blows with.

The imperialist nation of Bonstock, spurred on by the creation of it's superbattleships, has gone to war with the nation of Yemen and is only now starting to incounter resistance. I think it is the responsibility of this Alliance to see to it that Bonstock does not become more powerful through the taking of colonies, and to see to it that Bonstock leaves Yemen for good. I am not suggesting that we ready again for war, but rather demand Bonstock remove itself from the area and let Yemen's allies repair the damage done. If Bonstock refuses...then we shall see.

:End Communication:

Bonstock's actions are most worrying. (OOC: He hasn't responded there for a while)

Bonstock's actions are reaching levels more than simply worrying. The nation continues to create and sell weapons of mass destruction including "NUKES, biological, chemical weapons, and delivery systems, and defenses against them". The imperialist nation's military expansion has not been barely noticed, let alone restricted.

For example, Bonstock has set up the Joint Mobile Offshore Base in the South China Sea. This JMO Base is to provide Bonstock with oil "well into the next century." This oil, ofcourse, will go towards fueling the imperialist war machine.

Let us also not forget the "Project Draken" superbattleships that have been constructed by Bonstock. Though battleships no longer have the advantage they once did; the boost to the moral of Bonstock, and the knowledge that such a warship could be constructed even while the AA is trying to judge their leader for war crimes, is a definate victory for the imperialist forces.

The AA need only to speak up and this rogue nation of Bonstock will remember that the nations of the AA defeated it once, and do not tolerate such obvious acts of aggression.

*bugged by the BSS*

Hudecia agrees with the interpretation of North Yaman on the situation involving Bonstock.

However, before going to war we must consider:

1) Is war the only remaining option?
Considering all things this might be a resounding 'yes'.

2) Is the war winnable?
Lets think self-preservation here, can we win? Bonstock is definately a tricky character, he was beating the pants off us last time.

3) What are our objectives?
Lets not go bull-headed into this.. what do we want to accomplish? If it is merely an effort to prevent his imperialism then lets attack his outlying colonies (ie. South China Sea)

4) Can we justify it?
ALright, we need an official line... if we are going after him we need to justify it to the world.

1) Is war the only remaining option?
Perhaps not. Economic and political sanctions, and perhaps the threat of force alone, may be sufficient to deter Bonstock.

2) Is the war winnable?
Do not forget that we defeated Bonstock militarily in Japann... despite his protests to the contrary, he did not choose to leave a fight he could have won. He fled from certain defeat at the hands of vastly superior forces. The battle in Taiwan is a different matter, but Maropian Coast is untenable in the face of AA might. While Bonstock could engage us and win initially, the sheen numeric-industrial power of the AA makes his ultimate victory over us impossible.
This war too is winnable, though likely not through AA forces deploying into Yemen.

3) What are our objectives?
To counter Bonstockian imperialism. Bonstock remains a threat to Asia, and Yemen oil and bases could allow him to expand his offensive military power. In addition, the people of Yemen should not be left in Bonstockian chains.

To accomplish this, we need not go to Yemen. We must merely make Bonstock withdraw, perhaps by mobilizing a Pacific armada to sieze the Sakishimas and/or blockade Bonstock proper. He would either withdraw his forces from Yemen or suffer defeat at the hands of the AA.


4) Can we justify it?
This alliance has stated that one of its goals is to stand against imperialism. The people of Yemen are suffering under an unprovoked, imperialist attack. While we must take military action only as a last resort, it cannot be doubted that Bonstock acts in the wrong here, and the world shall see that.

Let us not forget that we would not be alone in condemning Bonstock. Matich, Whittier and LRR have already moblized to combat Bonstockian and Maropian Coast forces.

Alright, then. Seeing that nearly half the alliance is unresponsive/inactive, i believe that we may now move to vote on this issue.

All in favor of war, say "Hai"

All in favor of diplomatic shit, then war, say "Hao."

All in favor of sitting on our asses and doing nothing, say "Aye."

All in favor of alternate stuff, say "Me."

The People's Republic of Kay Son is interested in such alliance; however due to internal politics of our 'reformation', we ask to join at a later time. Further information can be seen at www.freewebs.com/timmywl/kayson.htm

The representative of Hudecia says "Hai".

We therefore mobilize our 2nd and 3rd Naval Task Forces and mobilize our II Corps consisting of 20 000 troops.

"Me!" (Check TGs, EI)

North Yaman is in favour of searching for a diplomatic solution, an attempt to convince Bonstock in the error of his actions, which are an affront to the way of the Gods and Heaven. If this fails, then we should mobilize.

(Basically, lets threaten the imperialist)

If you're going to war to defend Yemen, why only concentrate on Bonstock? There are other nations involved who seem to think they can just jump on Bonstock's bandwagon and claim territory with little effort. Attacking his allies would reduce the forces available to him (not by much, but it's a start), as well as teaching lazy imperialists a lesson. Without allies, Bonstock would be alone and could be forced out that way.

By my reckoning, there are at least 300,000 'allied' troops under Bonstock's control. These were contributed by smaller nations, who seem to think that they can send a large percentage of their armed forces overseas because no-one would think of attacking their homeland.

Alternatively, an attack could be launched on that Mobile Offshore Base of his...

We shall begin bringing opium into the "Azn" nation in exchange for gold and china. >.>

Maramaia, are you talking about his operations in the South China Sea?

What type of action do you have in mind?

Currently, another alliance that I am part of has been asked to assist Whittier.

It seems that I will be going to war regardless.

Hudecia therefore mobilizes its entire armed forces. An ultimatum will be sent shortly to Bonstock.

Maramaia, are you talking about his operations in the South China Sea?

What type of action do you have in mind?

Well, he seems to be in need of oil, so I say we take some from him. That Mobile Offshore Base is there to protect his oil rigs in the South China Sea; wouldn't it be a shame if, oh, he lost it? After all, he stated that the oil there is to supply Bonstock for the next few decades at least. We could either take it out completely, or possibly capture it and put it under Alliance control. Capturing it would then allow us to take those oil rigs and possibly generate some wealth for the peoples of Asia.

Just a thought, mind you.

Just a thought, but a good strategy. He can't start pumping oil out of Yemen for awhile yet, not matter what he claims. And the forces protecting it will be minimal, as he has to defend both Bonstock proper, his colonies and his Yemen force.

I still believe that war is very avoidable. However, the council must come to a decision soon, and together send a message to Bonstock that we will not tolerate further imperialism, not on any nation.

Interesting, however, I am sure that once we take it, Bonstock would be madder than a wet hen. Metaphorically speaking of course.

My naval forces are mobilizing and would be in a position to strike the base within a few RL days. A joint task force could easily destroy any defences. However, I am sure he would have rigged the rigs to blow. In that case, he still loses all his oil.

Bonstock's imperialist desires will never shrink. He poses a significant and continuing threat to the world at large and particularly our little part of it.

As his actions in Japann, Taiwan, the South China Seas and now Yemen show, he is an imperialist bent on conquering. Given time he may come back after us. Let us not stick our heads in the ground while the threat gathers on the horizon. Let us go out and meet this evil, together we can prevail.

Hao.

The PRS believes that we should declare our political support for the defenders of Yemen immediately, then put pressure on Bonstock to withdraw.

As we do so, we suggest the mobilization of our combined Pacific naval assets, and placing them in positions where they could move to strike his South China Sea Offshore Base, the Sakishimas, and Maropian Coast. Additional ground units should be mobilized in _Taiwan, to prevent Maropian units from trying to repeat their atrocities against Taipei.

Air and missile units should be prepared to strike at the Bonstockian Pacific fleet, and oil & ammunition stores in Bonstock proper.

I fear that Hudecia's suspicion of Bonstock may be right... while we hope for peace, it may be that Bonstock's imperialism will never cease to threaten all peoples of the world, and that if we do not render Bonstock unable to wage war, they shall forever rise up and attempt to enslave the globe.

Hao. Thats my tactic, makes you look good. Otherwise I'll go to war head on. On the other half, I'm getting involved with Dra-Pol's invasion of South
Korea.

I heard about that too Xiaguo. What is the AA's official position on Drapol's unprovoked invasion and massacre in Seoul?

hokkai, I'm here.

Dra-pol was part of the AR, wasn't it?

Dra-pol never officially left, but their actions don't seem to be in the spirit of the AR; maybe we should hold a vote to officially remove them.

As far as the Bonstock situation is concerned, Marimaia says 'Hao'. We'd prefer a peaceful solution, but we're still putting the Marimaian 2nd Carrier Task Force on alert. It'll take 2-3 RL days to get it within range of his South China Sea facility.

ooc: I don't think my last post got through... if it did ignore this, its a repeat.

ic: An official transmission is sent from Bonstock to all Azn Resistance members

"Bonstock will withdraw all its forces from Yemen, but on the agreement that the Azn Resistance and all members thereof will sign a non-aggression pact with Bonstock. This will mean that Bonstock may not attack the forces or territory of any Azn Resistance member, or vice versa. In addition, Bonstock will not be allowed to attack or annex any territory in or adjacent to the continent of Asia.

We hope this leads to a more lasting peace."

Wow... that got results fast...

Hudecia, although suspicious of Bonstock, cannot find anything of substance in their last message that would indicate anything untrustworthy.

Hence, Hudecia is more than willing to reach a negotiated settlement and is encouraged by Bonstock's actions.

Marimaia would like to congratulate Bonstock on seeing peace as the better option. We would certainly be willing to sign a non-aggression pact.

"Bonstock will withdraw all its forces from Yemen, but on the agreement that the Azn Resistance and all members thereof will sign a non-aggression pact with Bonstock. This will mean that Bonstock may not attack the forces or territory of any Azn Resistance member, or vice versa. In addition, Bonstock will not be allowed to attack or annex any territory in or adjacent to the continent of Asia.
"

We will require Bonstock's definition of Asia before we decide.

"...The PRS advises our fellow AA members to see this proposal for what it truly is. We in Spyr hope for peace, as do you all, but do not let your desire for such a noble end blind you to the nature of this deal.

Bonstock is an imperialist. He has broken a Lunar New-Year ceasefire treaty. He has broken the Cease-fire agreement from the end of the Japann War by invading Yemen, and he chose Yemen because he thought it would escape our notice, as it is geographically distant from us. Now that he knows we continue to watch him, he is attempting a different tactic.

He sought a nonagression pact at the end of the Japann war. We did not agree with it then. He seeks one now, and promises to not imperialize continental Asia. Yet Africa, the Americas, Europe, Oceania, even the frozen polar territories will remain fair game for his predatory imperialism, and our hands will be tied by treaty. And, our hands MUST be tied for Bonstock, as we have the power to not only defeat his expeditions abroad, but to defeat him on his very own soil.

I did not join this alliance for the self-interested escape offered by this treaty. I, and the people of Spyr, joined because we are an Asian people, and a united Asia can not only defeat all who seek to imperialize it, but can stand against imperialism wherever it occurs. If we sign this document, we give Bonstock free license to enslave all the peoples of the world, outside our own little geographic corner... we will be condoning the very imperialism under which Asia suffered, and which we stand against!

If Bonstock is truly a nation peaceful enough to merit a pact of non-agression, if they have really decided to cease their imperialist endeavours, then why do they not simply remove the geographic stipulation from their proposal? Why do they not promise to not attack or annex any nation, regardless of its location?

Such would be a treaty that the people of Spyr could accept..."

-Exerpt from a televised speech by PRS President Strain, to the people of Spyr and fellow nations of the AA.

The High Council agrees with the perceptive argument from the PRS President Strain, and applaudes his thinking of all people's of this world. However, this threat is not just to the safety of foreign powers.

Bonstock has no great history for alliances and treaties, as President Strain pointed out. And, if we allow the nation a chance to create an empire abroad this will only make Bonstock more powerful until, perhaps, the Imperialist starts looking for colonies a little closer to home and uses foreign assets to win a war against the AA.

Excellent. Seems everyone is saying 'Hao,' so therefore, we will prepare for war, but only as a backup option.

Sh*t i'll bb soon. I have to go eat, but I am typing out a reply and i will have it done afterwards.

Bonstock will concede on the issue of the referandum against imperialism. We will amend our proposal to say "Bonstock may not annex any territory in any part of the world, or invade it without reason, to which extent they may not incorporate the said territory into its nation after the invasion."

However, this sweetened deal comes at a price: Bonstock must be granted a free trade agreement with the Azn Resistance. This works both ways: no tarriffs between you and and Bonstock. Think of it... Bonstocknian markets... and considering how little we produce on our own, save computer chips and high tech weaponry, you could be in for quite an economic boom!

No one will sign any non agression treaties, as Spyr is right. I will instead start up a new thread, a diplomatic conference, with BOnstock.

If any of u have invision usernames, then please contact me by TG and we should all set up a forum for AA, to discuss our matters.

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3059309#3059309

URGENT PRESSING NEWS
the nation of SOuth Korea has been invaded by Dra-pol, formerly a member of the Azn Alliance.

All active nations, please comment immediately.

Hudecia is willing to send up to 500 000 troops. Because of mobilization time these will begin to arrive in Pusan within 24 hours and full arrival will take several months. Already 300 Hudecian fighters are arriving in southern ROK.

We strongly urge all members to denounce Drapol's actions and show their displeasure by joining us in fighting Drapol. We cannot claim to be against imperialism and then ignore it in our own backyard.

On the Bonstockian Problem
Spyr will only consider a nonagression pact with Bonstock, and the free trade clause, if Bonstock abandons the armaments of power projection: this would entail the scrapping and ban on construction or purchasing of

-aircraft carriers, amphibious transports with capacity over 100 men or 25 vehicles, long-range aircraft, and ballistic missiles.

Bonstock has destroyed all possible trust we might have been able to hold for it through its treachery and imperialism. Only concrete proof of a new, peaceful Bonstock will allow us to accept any treaty of this nature.

On Dra-pol's invasion of the ROK
The difficulty with matters on the Korean penninsula is that the border between north and south is an artificial creation... the Korean Penninsula and its peoples have been the Hermit Kingdom of Asia for ages past, and we suspect that a good number of ROK citizens will be happy to finally achieve unity. However, Dra-pol has gone about achieving this goal in a way which is most grievously in error. Pressure must be placed upon Dra-pol in order to mitigate this difficulty, but we should not jump immediately to war. Should Dra-pol attempt artillery devastation of population centers, however, we must act to prevent this, and to remove such a threat to humanity.

However, for those who speak of this as an imperialist invasion within our own homes... Dra-pol itself is currently suffering under an occupation by foreign powers, holding several cities.

This entire matter merits a full and in-depth investigation... to act immediately against Dra-pol through military means would be premature until we identify our goals and policies based upon the facts of the matter.

While the Bonstockian Navy was never truly a threat and their force projection was rather limited, I agree with Spyr that some conditions must be made. I must stress however that Bonstock is not at knifepoint anymore (if they ever were) and the chances that they will agree to such demands is highly unlikely. Furthermore I feel that the AA can easily handle any threat they present in the future regardless of arms limitations. In retrospect I think the only insurance we need or can hope to achieve is increased vigilance, and the knowledge they have and are willing to betray us should provide us with enough forbearance. We have successfully repelled Bonstock's recent attempts at imperialism, and we feel that being prepared for such betrayal makes any future attempts increasingly futile. We are stronger now, and have learned our lesson; this is the only assurance we truly need.

With that being said I do not feel that Bonstock requires such stringent limitations, although some penalization should, indeed, occur.



In response to Spyr's comments on Dra-pol, I also feel that we should never immediately rush to war, and I am sure that many of you, including East Islandia, agree to this. However we must be prepared and the movement of troops to the immediate area is not in error. We will get to the bottom of this situation and attempt to defuse the problem diplomatically, however if those attempts fail or the lives of innocent people are put in serious jeopardy we should not and cannot hesitate to act in a military fashion.

Wow, this proposal is generous, we should accept. Well, Xiaguo accepts these terms and signs behalf of Xiaguo only.

Yes, kick Dra-Pol, this is an undeclared war and can be called agression, bad for the AA name.

As recent Drapoel missile tests have proven, Spyr's population centres are within missile strike range of Dra-pol launchers... while we have defence systems, we would prefer to tread carefully.

Given that Dra-pol has such a massive mobilization, it would take millions of AA troops to liberate and secure the ROK. And, the occupying 'christian' powers who have taken hold of Drapoel cities will no doubt take advantage of a weakened Dra-pol to expand their holdings. Unless we can take measures to secure both the ROK and Dra-pol at once, imperialism will occur. This war is a triangle, and as such is highly complex.

More complex is the fact that Dra-pol will attempt to annihilate ROK cities through artillery, should we threaten them militarily. As we see no political or operational evidence that Dra-pol expects the difficulties inherent to integrating its new territories, the situation is highly volatile, and Dra-pol lacks the contact neccessary to understand the proper empathy in dealing with occupied peoples and international relations.

Something must be done. But we cannot afford to take any wrong actions... we must seek the correct course at all costs.

As for Bonstock... perhaps a treaty limiting his total naval tonnage?

(ooc:Ooh, Spyr's done his research, you should listen to this fellow. I know I've made it very difficult for realistic nations to respond, but I'm hoping that btween you, someone can come up with a clever plan. I don't mind being beaten if it's done well.Dra-pol is all alone, after all (and I'm druink))

Drapol has already begun devastating major population centres so it is a little late for diplomacy. The only solution is to demonstrate militarily to Drapol that continuation of hostilities will only lead to the annhilation of his nation. That would convince him to look to peace.

Dictators will look to peace when they realize they can't win.

I propose the following solution to the problem:

1) Mobilization of millions of AA troops to be moved into ROK to secure it from Drapol invasion. Moreover, we will begin to reconquer ROK territory. If necessary we will even take Dra-pol territory itself.

2) Blockade of foreign powers occupying Drapol's territory. We declare the entire region a "no-fly" zone and all waterways will be controlled by AA ships. Nothing remotely military comes in or out. In this situation we may antogonize the other powers but under the circumstances they will not consider taking serious action against us.

3) Agressive diplomacy with Drapol. Once we have "boots on the ground" we take a hardline against Drapol, we press them for withdrawl to pre-conflict borders. In exchange we guarantee that our troops won't enter their nation. Also, I'm sure Drapol would like to take advantage of the blockade to expell some of the occupying powers from his land... *hint* *hint*



3)

Spyr sees some merit in the Hudecian proposal. Dra-pol must be stopped, and it may be impossible to stop them diplomatically... not because we are too late, but because the very concept of a diplomatic resolution is alien to the Drapoel leadership, and by the time they could have had a chance to fully grasp it, ROK would have fallen.

However, we think that Hudecia does not understand the realities of an isolationist nation such as Dra-pol. It is not a matter of defeating a dictator. It is a matter of defeating a people, united in a cause, each individual mobilized as part of the national war machine in ways which none of our nations shall ever attain. Years ago, three million people died so that a few 'christian' nations could secure a foothold on Drapoel soil. What Hudecia proposes will require, plain and simple: the destruction of a nation... its leaders, its military, and its population. If Spyr is to enter this conflict, and if the AA is to consider such a move, then they must understand the price that will be paid. Millions of soldiers will die. Tens of millions of civilians will join them in death. The peninsula that is Korea shall be torn and scarred beyond all recognition, and its people shall never recover. There can be no ideal return to the former borders, no happy peaceful solution to this war. One nation on that peninsula will die before this is through, and it is up to us to decide where the death throes shall fall.

Sorry, I did not make myself too clear last time. I do NOT want to invade Drapol itself... such a move is not only dangerous but would require, as Spyr suggests, essentially ethnic cleansing.

I am not looking for a 'happy' solution.. rather a return to the pre-conflict status... a return to the stalemate.

Hopefully from that point diplomacy can take over and maybe we can coax them out of their isolation. Primarily this is a failure on our part unfortunately... we did not view Drapol as a threat hence none of our nations saw the defence of ROK as necessary. Now that a crisis has begun, we are caught sleeping.

Playing hardball will force the Drapol leaders to look to self-preservation and submit. Dictators can not be dealt with otherwise. Dealing with the Drapol citizens requires diplomacy not military.. dealing with the Drapol invasion requires military not diplomacy.

I propose a plan, and we have two options, really:

To either keep the stalemate on the Korean peninsula, allowing both nations to co-exist.

This option is difficult; we may not have the advantage over Dra-pol forces, as their troops are more motivated, and if need be, we will find ourselves facing many millions of armed citizens. Likewise, were we to fight a fullout war, we face the prospect of genocide, as Spyr stated, which is not pleasant.

Which leaves us one choice to bring about this objective: stabilization of the battlefront; we create a perimeter, and prevent Dra-pol forces from attacking further. To make our point, we destroy as many offensive weapons as possible, stopping Dra-poel spearhead troops in their tracks.

However, as Spyr said, he is in range of his missiles, and as such, i probably am too, as i lay in teh Pacific.

The second option is to allow the Dra-poel to overrun the Koreans... I personally am in favor of this option, as I believe it will cause less casualties...

Integration of the Koreas will only lead to the ultimate genocide on the peninsula. Once Drapol realizes that South Koreans will not abandon their freedoms and become mindless atomatons like in the North the only solution will be genocide.

Either way we have a massacre on our hands. On one hand we can force a return to the stalemate at the cost of thousands (or even millions) of men's lives. Or, we can let Drapol brutally execute tens of millions of people to establish his rule in the south.

In a war with Drapol our troops would not need to cross over to Drapol territory. But I don't think that is necessary. Once Drapol sees that he is losing he will look for a peaceful, face-saving way out.

*********************************************
excerpts from Conservative leader MacNally's speech to Hudecian Parliament televised on HNN:

"This is a war. Men will die. However, in death we are serving something greater. We are protecting others and we are dying so that others may live. This is the greatest sacrifice that any man, or nation can make.

Hudecia stands ready to make the sacrifice, with or without allies. At least we will die on our feet rather than on our knees. At least we will die fighting on the battlefield rather than cowering in our homes."

Conservative MPs rise to their feet in a standing ovation.

In a war with Drapol our troops would not need to cross over to Drapol territory. But I don't think that is necessary. Once Drapol sees that he is losing he will look for a peaceful, face-saving way out.

The PRS does not believe that this is a correct assumption. Drapol has no motivation for either peaceful or face-saving exit... to whom does an isolationist need to show face? None but himself, and to admit defeat would ultimately be a great loss to that face.

If a plan is drafted assuming that Dra-pol will be motivated to resolve this conflict to 'save face' in the international community, then it is doomed from the beginning. Even to hold the pre-invasion border would cost thousands of lives each day, unless Dra-pol can be contained on its own terms... such are terms we do not yet understand.

Perhaps an AA emissary could be dispatched to Dra-pol, to make the nature of this difficulty apparent to their leadership, and from there a response might be drafted.

Spyr will certainly not object to individual nations acting as they see fit in this matter, but we suggest that all would be better off if we could uncover all the facts and draft common solutions.

OOC: Dra-pol, can your missiles hit Taiwan?

Hello, my Asian brothers and sisters. I have been looking for my fellow Asians in this world. I have been wanting to form a new region for all the Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians to form a new nation. I have also thought about all Asians forming a new region that is just for Asians alone. We need to form a powerful region where Asians can survive and thrive together as one united group. :) If any Asian is up for that, I will help form it.

As for myself, I am half Vietnamese and half white. Oh, I just thought of something. Are there any Asian adoptees here?? If so, I would like to form a region for Asian adoptees only. This way, we can feel like we are not alone in this game. :)

Even isolationist nations need to save face infront of their own people. A massive defeat would destroy the idea of invincibility both in the Dapoel leadership and in the military structure. Seeing that all member of the army, including generals are heavily indoctrinated, when the Drapoel army begins to suffer losses and defeats it will sap the leadership's confidence. Generals will begin to wonder why they are losing to foreigners if the rest of the world is so much worse off than Drapol. The leadership will see that a war means their defeat.

Still the government will want to get out of the war and be able to tell its people... "hey look we won!". This is where the Quinntonian Drapol comes in.

We put a force of arms in the ROK and show them that they cannot win. We then convince Drapol to turn his forces to attack Quinntonian Drapol and chase them off the peninsula. After all, it was imperialist agression that brought QD there.

ROK remains independent but Drapol can tout their victory over Quinntonian Drapol to their people.

The second option is to allow the Dra-poel to overrun the Koreans... I personally am in favor of this option, as I believe it will cause less casualties...

The Republic of China also favours this position. We believe a unified Korea would be in a better position to open up into the international community.

However, in case genocide of South Korea does occur, we suggest the AA keep armed forces at ready.

The second option is to allow the Dra-poel to overrun the Koreans... I personally am in favor of this option, as I believe it will cause less casualties...

The Republic of China also favours this position. We believe a unified Korea would be in a better position to open up into the international community.

However, in case genocide of South Korea does occur, we suggest the AA keep armed forces at ready.

Spyr suggests that Xiaguo immediately cease its invasion of Dra-pol... convincing Dra-pol to interact with the outside world, and to calm down so that massacre in the south is less likely, will be impossible if an AA member, not to mention a Chinese nation (one of the few with whom the Hermit Kingdom has consistently interacted), is invading them.

This is just about as silly as Chamberlain surrendering the Sudetenland. If we abandon ROK then it will be near impossible to land again in case a genocide does occur. As the old saying goes.. "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

This is also like saying that maybe if we let Hitler take over Austria he will open up to the world community. Maybe if we also let Bonstock conquer Japann and Yemen it will satisfy his imperialist desires and he will stop.

It seems that Spyr, E. Islandia and Taiwan do not appreciate the threat posed by Drapol.

Trying to negotiate with an isolationist is about as useful as talking to a wall. It only encourages them because they see that we are weak.

In any case I am not backing down. I'd also like to question the wisdom of condemning Xiaguo when his nation is being invaded too (read the thread). Shall we surrender Xiaguo to the Drapolian imperialist desires?

This is just about as silly as Chamberlain surrendering the Sudetenland. If we abandon ROK then it will be near impossible to land again in case a genocide does occur. As the old saying goes.. "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

This is also like saying that maybe if we let Hitler take over Austria he will open up to the world community. Maybe if we also let Bonstock conquer Japann and Yemen it will satisfy his imperialist desires and he will stop.

It seems that Spyr, E. Islandia and Taiwan do not appreciate the threat posed by Drapol.

Trying to negotiate with an isolationist is about as useful as talking to a wall. It only encourages them because they see that we are weak.

In any case I am not backing down. I'd also like to question the wisdom of condemning Xiaguo when his nation is being invaded too (read the thread). Shall we surrender Xiaguo to the Drapolian imperialist desires?

OOC: Xiaquo is not under attack...Dra-pol only said, ooc and jokingly, that "perhaps" they shall invade this other nation instead. Also, imagine his surprise when a nation suddenly said that he was invading him from the north! Infact, the celerity of all defenders of the ROK should be questioned...Dra-pol atleast explained his quick attack and control of everything north of the Han.

IC: The Socialist Federal Dominion condemns the Kilean attack on Spyran diplomats trying to find a peaceful solution to the conflict. We urge our AA allies to likewise condemn this surprise attack on a diplomatic mission.

NY would also like to remind Hudecia of the difference between Dra-pol and Nazi Germany. For one, Nazi Germany wasn't isolationalist. Also, Dra-pol hasn't shown any signs of an imperialist nature, they're simply unifying a divided people. If we work with Dra-pol, to try and help integrate the ROK, many less people will die. Dra-pol isn't there to perform genocide on a people culturally similar to themselves, this is no Holocaust situation. It is only so if we make it that way.

Also, the Hudecian idea of directing Dra-pol against the "imperialist" Quinntonian Drapol is hypocrisy. The people of Quinntonian Drapol are happy, and largely asian christians who don't want to live under Dra-pol rule. Why protect the people of ROK, but not Quinntonian Drapol?

The best solution to this situation is for the allied forces to pull out of the ROK and work with Dra-pol, instead of resorting to unnecessary violence and war.

This is just about as silly as Chamberlain surrendering the Sudetenland. If we abandon ROK then it will be near impossible to land again in case a genocide does occur. As the old saying goes.. "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

This is also like saying that maybe if we let Hitler take over Austria he will open up to the world community. Maybe if we also let Bonstock conquer Japann and Yemen it will satisfy his imperialist desires and he will stop.

It seems that Spyr, E. Islandia and Taiwan do not appreciate the threat posed by Drapol.

Trying to negotiate with an isolationist is about as useful as talking to a wall. It only encourages them because they see that we are weak.

In any case I am not backing down. I'd also like to question the wisdom of condemning Xiaguo when his nation is being invaded too (read the thread). Shall we surrender Xiaguo to the Drapolian imperialist desires?

OOC: Xiaquo is not under attack...Dra-pol only said, ooc and jokingly, that "perhaps" they shall invade this other nation instead. Also, imagine his surprise when a nation suddenly said that he was invading him from the north! Infact, the celerity of all defenders of the ROK should be questioned...Dra-pol atleast explained his quick attack and control of everything north of the Han.

IC: The Socialist Federal Dominion condemns the Kilean attack on Spyran diplomats trying to find a peaceful solution to the conflict. We urge our AA allies to likewise condemn this surprise attack on a diplomatic mission.

NY would also like to remind Hudecia of the difference between Dra-pol and Nazi Germany. For one, Nazi Germany wasn't isolationalist. Also, Dra-pol hasn't shown any signs of an imperialist nature, they're simply unifying a divided people. If we work with Dra-pol, to try and help integrate the ROK, many less people will die. Dra-pol isn't there to perform genocide on a people culturally similar to themselves, this is no Holocaust situation. It is only so if we make it that way.

Also, the Hudecian idea of directing Dra-pol against the "imperialist" Quinntonian Drapol is hypocrisy. The people of Quinntonian Drapol are happy, and largely asian christians who don't want to live under Dra-pol rule. Why protect the people of ROK, but not Quinntonian Drapol?

The best solution to this situation is for the allied forces to pull out of the ROK and work with Dra-pol, instead of resorting to unnecessary violence and war.

Ministry of Diplomacy, PRS

There was a great deal of consternation within the ministry as the situation in Asia escalated. Dissagreements within the AA on dealing with Dra-pol were broadening, while Bonstock's Yemen endeavour remained in an unstable stalemate. The Diplomacy Minister was on a plane to East Islandia, and the envoy to Dra-pol had come under what appeared to be the threat of destruction by Kilean, which had caught the ministry quite off-guard.

It seemed to be that Hudecia and Xiaguo saw Dra-pol and its situation differently than Spyr:

--- Dra-pol is an imperialist dictatorship on a mission of expansion.
--- Dra-pol will see diplomacy attempts as signs of weakness on the part of the outside world.
--- Dra-pol will commit genocide if it controks ROK.
--- Dra-pol can be defeated militarily and will thus come to peace terms if confronted with force.

Under such circumstances, Spyr would have agreed with their course of action... Spyr was located on a penninsula into the northern Sea of Japan, and an imperialist Dra-pol was a direct threat to them. Genocide was unacceptable, and Spyr was obligated to do what it could to stop it.

However, Spyr's viewpoint was much different.
--- Dra-pol is an isolationist state seeking to re-unify the Hermit Kingdom
--- Dra-pol does not understand 'defeat', 'surrender', 'peaceful resolution' in the same way normalized nations do... the only ones who did, and who made the end to previous wars possible, are now dead, and thus the Drapoel leadership wont follow the normal rules.
--- Dra-pol will commit genocide if it seems that it will not be able to keep possession of the ROK. This has been stated, and any satellite images will reveal that it is not simply a matter of bombing specific missile launch points. The threat is long-ranged shells, and while concentrations seem to exist, the Drapoel army is so massive, and medium and even heavy artillery is so widespread that even conventional bombardment could still flatten southern population centers.
--- Dra-pol is fully mobilized as a nation. To defeat the military, one must defeat the people, inflicting millions of civilian casualties and breaking the nation. The Spyrans had been studying everything they could on Dra-pol in war, and they saw the Quinntonian experience as indicating the sheer dedication of Dra-pol to war, whether soldier, worker, mother, child. The damage required to force Dra-pol to end the war would require a policy bordering on genocide.

Thus, Spyr sees the current deployments against Dra-pol as having happened too quickly. They have not created a coordinated plan to defend against Dra-pol reaction. They have not attempted to contact Dra-pol in any sense, even if only to guage reaction to the international condemnation. And, they ignore the very warnings issued by the nation which last battled Dra-pol, and which currently feeds their troops.

Spyr had not wished to act against Dra-pol until such issues were resolved, which they had hoped would occur quickly, but which did not seem to have occured. They had sent an envoy, whose life was now at risk from one of the supposed 'defenders' of South Korea... a nation which had also lobbed indiscriminate missiles into a major Dra-pol city which housed a large population of civilians, both Drapoel and from neutral nations. THe envoy's purpose was to try and convince Dra-pol to accept a peaceful resolution, and failing that, to make them understand that it was not in their interest to fight to the death. While Spyr might not agree with the Hudecian stance, if war could not be stopped, they wanted to make sure it could be won without the deaths of millions of allied troops. They had not intended to condemn Xiaguo... they had simply worried that Dra-pol feeling threatened this early might trigger a counteraction before measures were adopted to prevent it.

As news of the arrival of EI air defence brigades reached the ministry, a flurry of calls went out to allied diplomats. Spyr was seeking a common AA policy to be adopted towards Dra-pol, including measures to prevent the carnage of a fearful Dra-pol under foreign pressure.

If what Spyr perceives is true about Drapol then there is no way to avoid a massacre. If we let them take over South Korea then the reaction of South Koreans to being occupied and having every one of their rights stripped away would incur a massacre. If foreigners become involved a massacre will occur.

Either way, there will be a massacre and we lose. This is a no-win situation, and Hudecia has already accepted this fact.

Diplomacy with an isolationist state is near impossible. A hyper-isolationist state will be impossible to negotiate with... especially if, as Spyr points out, the only people who know about the outside world are dead. Remember, they believe the outside world is an awful place and that we are all murderous,self-centered imperialists. We cannot change their perceptions no matter how hard we try, this is a cultural problem that will take generations to fix. We do not have generations to stop Drapol.

I would also like to point out that ROK forces are trading their blood for time we do get. How we use this time is up to us. Whether we whittle it away arguing among ourselves or building up our forces there is your choice. Hudecia has chosen the latter.

Not that we have enough on our plates with Drapol and Bonstock.

Now some nation by the name of Jingzhou is trying to occupy central China. I hope none of you have military bases there because they just launched air strikes to take them out.

I remember EI having bases in PRC China

In that case, the nation (a Feb 2004 nation) has bitten off more than he can chew.

Actually another nation Koiian ( a Mar 2004 nation) has joined him, landing troops and all.

OOC: Glad to see Im building up a nice reputation. In any case, you will have to land troops against an occupying land army. A naval build-up on the coast will take infinately longer than my army already on land, however, you may be able to shield yourself with Taiwan and others mainland posssessions. Good luck stopping me :).

OOC: Sorry, I meant I think someone already has claimed that land, in which case you would be invading someone else. We wouldn't have to land troops because you'd be attacking a nation.

OOC: Who is EI, and when did he last post, and does he really own land there?

OOC: Who is EI, and when did he last post, and does he really own land there?

EI = East Islandia

He has bases in PRC China (Omz222's puppet) from the Sino-Japannese war.

EI = East Islandia

He has bases in PRC China (Omz222's puppet) from the Sino-Japannese war.

OOC: Where at?

OOC: Dunno. Ask him.

OOC:Someone should tell Sino and Xiaquo...they're moving massive armies into northern China, to cross the Yalu into Dra-pol. I'm sure they would get involved if someone attacked their flanks...

But could they fight a two front war?

Spyr: On the campus of Sithin U. O-Rendo Dakori continued in his studies. The different courses had opened his eyes to so much learning, and his mind continued to devour as much knowledge as he could. International incidents and news were of special interest to him, having come from a culture somewhat lacking in news mediums. It was common to find him in one of the lounges on campus, reading a discarded newspaper or talking to Poli Sci students about the background history of the latest news.

Today he was alone, and deeply troubled by the headlines he was reading.

*Xiaquo and Sino insist invasion of Dra-pol a success: Tactical analysts question the position*

They'll probably get anger and do something stupid...like launch a nuclear attack, he thought. Sino was known for its itchy trigger finger, and appartently Xiaquo was just as aggressive. It was the new debate on Campus whether their invasion was just as imperialist as Dra-poel or Bonstockian policies.

*Hudecia commences mass bombardment of south korean highways: Hundreds of civilians believed to be collateral damage*

Eventually O-Rendo threw down the paper in general disgust and went to find Ritsuko. She always put things in perpective for him, perhaps there was a reason why these madmen were in charge of nations...

OOC: Jingzhou seems to have claimed to have rolled over China, blitzkrieg-style, and come into range of Beijing within days. If I'm not mistaken, the geogreaphy he claims to have taken uncontested IS PRC China, who has not gotten a chance to respond, as neither have other nations such as EI who have bases there. Personally, I think Jingzhou's RP is impossible to concieve within our world paradigm, and should be shrugged off as the ramblings of a drunken German tourist wandering the streets of Baotou.

North Yaman... the decision to bomb major South Korean highways came after much deliberation and delay. During our discussions we concluded the following.

1) All major highways to be struck are deep inside occupied territory so,
i) they are being used by Drapol to move heavy weapons, artillery, fuel and troops to the front line.
ii) Civilians would not be frequenting the major highways because of the hundreds of thousands of Drapol troops on them. (remember, the South Koreans are hiding in their homes)
iii) Any civilians who are using the roads are likely co-operating with Drapol military (they would be spies)

2) Forces in the southeast are fighting for their lives. Unless a method of slowing the advance of the Drapol forces is found the southeast and all of ROK will be overrun.

3) International condemnation is not likely to occur since civilian casualties will be a minimum and because only major highways used by Drapol are targeted.

4) Cruise missiles are a form of 'smart weaponry' so damage will be limited to the targets. However, attempts to shoot down these weapons will likely be the main source of civilian casualties as their flak will fall in civilian areas.

This is a war. There is no pretty side to it. Decisions made in war will have consequences, we did not bomb heavily populated regions or attempt to blow up civilian targets. Infrastructure being used for military purposes constitutes a military target.

OOC: my attack would not have caused many civilian casualties because the Koreans are hiding in their homes, remember? Although you could say that your 'newspaper' is just full of propaganda. Anyone found outside their home, trying to escape is usually shot by Drapol. Plus, these roads are being used by Drapol for transporting military equipment - legitimate targets.

Also, and I don't expect outsiders to understand it because we haven't said it but..... the Allied armies are running scared, we do not have enough troops to hold out against Drapol forces ... we need to slow them down immediately or else the entire ROK will be lost and hundreds of thousands of our men will die in vain.

bases in Shandong and Central China. That was where the Mallbertans ahd attacked the heaviest....well, central china at least. But I only really used the one in Shandong...

He also has an army in Xiaguo during approval for the Dra-Pol war.

Hello Jingzhou, just making a note to you that I will defending Beijing, please don't attack.