NationStates Jolt Archive

"I'll have to think about whether or not I really want to sign the tech treaty... but as for wording, they're both good, as far as I can see."

The nation of Pilon would like to have the honor of being the first ones to sign the Technology Exchange subtreaty.

Ravenspire will sign the Flag Council subtreaty. We will not be signing the Technology Exchange subtreaty, for reasons already mentioned.

Winter Akiyama

OOC: Where is Mars?

"And Miss Winter, what of the first amendment to the MIDAS treaty?" Messer spoke up after swallowing, glad that someone had finished reading. "Does it meet with your approval or is a change in language required?"

OOC: Where is Mars?

Just in case you are not joking... Mars is the 4th planet from the sun. In Nationstates it is long settled by dozens of nations many of whom have Mars as their only home.

There are several Martian regions you could look at:
Green Mars
The Planet Mars
Vascilia County

The region Mars is not populated by roleplayers, thus it is not really on the planet Mars as far as I am concerned.

"And Miss Winter, what of the first amendment to the MIDAS treaty?" Messer spoke up after swallowing, glad that someone had finished reading. "Does it meet with your approval or is a change in language required?"

"It sounds reasonable to me. I have no complaints, and I will fully support it."

"Well then," Dr. Meyer spoke up again, "since there appears to be no objections to the wording, I'll open these doccuments to sign and vote." With that, he pushed a screen-projected button, and printed out three doccuments. [[OOC: As above]]

Minister Meyer signed two...he signed "yes" under the amendment to create a MIDAS-II Diplomatic Council, and signed Wazzu up for the MIDAS-II Defense Forces subtreaty. He then passed all three doccuments around.

******
******

Amendment 1: Creation of a MIDAS-II Diplomatic Council
Yea: Wazzu
Nay:


Subtreaty: MIDAS-II Defense Forces
Signatory Nations: Wazzu


Subtreaty: MIDAS-II Technology Share
Signatory Nations:

Amendment 1: Creation of a MIDAS-II Diplomatic Council
Yea: Ravenspire, Wazzu
Nay:


Subtreaty: MIDAS-II Defense Forces
Signatory Nations: Ravenspire, Wazzu


Subtreaty: MIDAS-II Technology Share
Signatory Nations:

We also vote Yea

just a note, we've signed the Technology share treaty

Amendment 1: Creation of a MIDAS-II Diplomatic Council
Yea: Ravenspire, Wazzu, Sunset
Nay:


Subtreaty: MIDAS-II Defense Forces
Signatory Nations: Ravenspire, Wazzu, Sunset


Subtreaty: MIDAS-II Technology Share
Signatory Nations:

Amendment 1: Creation of a MIDAS-II Diplomatic Council
Yea: Ravenspire, Wazzu, Sunset, Pilon
Nay:


Subtreaty: MIDAS-II Defense Forces
Signatory Nations: Ravenspire, Wazzu, Sunset, Pilon


Subtreaty: MIDAS-II Technology Share
Signatory Nations: Pilon

Ack! also signs the M2DF treaty

Amendment 1: Creation of a MIDAS-II Diplomatic Council
Yeah.

Subtreaty: MIDAS-II Defense Forces
Yeah.

Subtreaty: MIDAS-II Technology Share
Nay.

We do not wish to spread our relatively advanced technologies. Albeit we do allow our own citizens and others to learn the mechanics of non-aerospace antigravity propulsion, which is based on rather radically different and cheaper (albeit less efficient) principles. All areas out of this are kept under strict control. All star vessels must use the services of an ArAreBeen engineer for repair, installation, and other essentials. Letting such secrets out into the free market would not be profitable in the long term and would diminish New ArAreBeen military uniqueness and it's unorthodoxy, allowing for overestimates/underestimates on the part of the enemy.

Should design another, more moldable subtreaty, we might consider signing it.

Amendment 1: Creation of a MIDAS-II Diplomatic Council
Yeah.

Subtreaty: MIDAS-II Defense Forces
Yeah.

Subtreaty: MIDAS-II Technology Share
Nay.

We do not wish to spread our relatively advanced technologies. Albeit we do allow our own citizens and others to learn the mechanics of non-aerospace antigravity propulsion, which is based on rather radically different and cheaper (albeit less efficient) principles. All areas out of this are kept under strict control. All star vessels must use the services of an ArAreBeen engineer for repair, installation, and other essentials. Letting such secrets out into the free market would not be profitable in the long term and would diminish New ArAreBeen military uniqueness and it's unorthodoxy, allowing for overestimates/underestimates on the part of the enemy.

Should design another, more moldable subtreaty, we might consider signing it.

Amendment 1: Creation of a MIDAS-II Diplomatic Council
Yeah.

Subtreaty: MIDAS-II Defense Forces
Yeah.

Subtreaty: MIDAS-II Technology Share
Nay.

We do not wish to spread our relatively advanced technologies. Albeit we do allow our own citizens and others to learn the mechanics of non-aerospace antigravity propulsion, which is based on rather radically different and cheaper (albeit less efficient) principles. All areas out of this are kept under strict control. All star vessels must use the services of an ArAreBeen engineer for repair, installation, and other essentials. Letting such secrets out into the free market would not be profitable in the long term and would diminish New ArAreBeen military uniqueness and it's unorthodoxy, allowing for overestimates/underestimates on the part of the enemy.

Should design another, more moldable subtreaty, we might consider signing it.

Amendment 1: Creation of a MIDAS-II Diplomatic Council
Yeah.

Subtreaty: MIDAS-II Defense Forces
Yeah.

Subtreaty: MIDAS-II Technology Share
Nay.

We do not wish to spread our relatively advanced technologies. Albeit we do allow our own citizens and others to learn the mechanics of non-aerospace antigravity propulsion, which is based on rather radically different and cheaper (albeit less efficient) principles. All areas out of this are kept under strict control. All star vessels must use the services of an ArAreBeen engineer for repair, installation, and other essentials. Letting such secrets out into the free market would not be profitable in the long term and would diminish New ArAreBeen military uniqueness and it's unorthodoxy, allowing for overestimates/underestimates on the part of the enemy.

Should design another, more moldable subtreaty, we might consider signing it.

Amendment 1: Creation of a MIDAS-II Diplomatic Council
Aye.

Subtreaty: MIDAS-II Defense Forces
Aye.

Subtreaty: MIDAS-II Technology Share
Nay, for now. Maybe later.

Amendment 1: Creation of a MIDAS-II Diplomatic Council
Yea: Ravenspire, Wazzu, Sunset, Pilon, New ArAreBee, Eniqcir
Nay:


Subtreaty: MIDAS-II Defense Forces
Signatory Nations: Ravenspire, Wazzu, Sunset, Pilon, New ArAreBee, Eniqcir


Subtreaty: MIDAS-II Technology Share
Signatory Nations: Pilon

Amendment 1: Yay


M2DF: Yay


Technology Share: Nay for now.

Amendment 1: Creation of a MIDAS-II Diplomatic Council
Yea: Ravenspire, Wazzu, Sunset, Pilon, New ArAreBee, Eniqcir, Kinslayer
Nay:

*PASSED*

Subtreaty: MIDAS-II Defense Forces
Signatory Nations: Ravenspire, Wazzu, Sunset, Pilon, New ArAreBee, Eniqcir, The Kinslayer

*Signed*

Subtreaty: MIDAS-II Technology Share
Signatory Nations: Pilon

*In need of modification* ;)

With the first two wrapped up, we can begin the appointment of the military council as well as the diplomatic council. My thoughts turn to the technology treaty first.

Perhaps it should be transformed into an agreement to protect the technology of an ally, without mandating its sharing. This would be extremely helpful in times of war. Who amoung us can say for certain we would have the resources to repair our ships or other units? Repair technicians from other nations might be willing to do the work, but their access to sensitive technology might compromise their ability to do the work. Perhaps the treaty should be reshaped to just be a general 'protect your allies tech' or an anti-espionage treaty.

We would not be against such a proposal.

That sounds resonable to us.

"An excellent notion," Minister Meyer beings, "but I think we can take it a step or two further.

"I believe there are many levels of secrecy. There are those who's very existance is kept from the outside world. I am certain we can all think of our own examples, but will not admit to what they are.

"Others are regarded so secret that they can not be released to anyone, but their existance is known of. These might include very specialized technology our nations or corporations feel they need to survive. Coca-cola would be loathe to release their products formula. I am certain we can all think of examples.

"Then there are those which may be released to a slightly larger audience, an audience of extremely well trusted experts. Satelite intelligence networks often fall into this category.

"Further more are rarely shared with outsiders...but on occasion are. Microsoft sharing its OS source code with China in the early 21st springs to mind.

"A great number of technologies are considered public enough to patent, where it is trusted that others will not break a law in copying.

"And last of all there are those technologies taken for granted in one nation, of free and open use, but completely unknown in others. Fusion power has become one of these, quantum computing another.

"So I suggest we place a number rank on this list. That those technologies whos existance we hold secret rank 0, and those we consider open source rank 5. In this way, we can open sharing of some technologies between us, and when we ask about something too dear, a simple answer of 'zero' will let our people know not to question the bobbytrapped black box in front of them.

"I agree with our collegue from Sunset that the subtreaty should include a common patent list, and the protection of those patents and all technology rated more secret.

"And I suggest that the penalty for infringing on these secrets be harsh. The removal of copied assets, by force if necessary, from corporations and MIDAS and forign nations...and by the hunting and imprisonment of individuals involved in espionage against our nations. Anything less would be to risk our national and corporate secrets.

"Now, while you mull over all of that and think of a response, your welcome to message your governments with our recent amendment and defense subtreaty along with any other suggestions you have. Terminals are built under the glass of the table, though I'll understand if nothing confidential is sent through. Perhaps our governments can start finding people for these two councils as we debate, perhaps some of us will be on one."

OOC: And you guys better come up with some good criticisms and suggestions for this subtreaty!!! I can't think of everything....

OOC: **Bump** from bottem of first page.

Since this is going so slowly, what do you guys think about getting the Flag Council going? They still have a lot to debate to get the M2DF working.

Y/N ??

I do ask why the Terran Dominion was not invited. We are a substantial power on mars.

Yes

I do ask why the Terran Dominion was not invited. We are a substantial power on mars.

OOC: The decision was made to keep the treaty body small to start with. This let us create a treaty that satisfied certain specific goals. Now that the treaty is in force, new nations will be considered. If you are interested, TG a signatory nation and the process can begin.

IC:
The proposal for a numbered 'secrecy' scale is quite reasonable. The only problem I can see is the creation of a body to regulate the percieved secret status. To me the best way to handle this would be to have a sub-body that has access to everything except for '0' level secrets. They can regulate the others simply over time.

OOC: I like the idea partially for the irony. Ultra-secret divisions within Sunset are called '0' Division.

I do ask why the Terran Dominion was not invited. We are a substantial power on mars.

OOC:

1: Because not even all Mars powers were invited...only a few that Wazzu (and Sunset) saw as responsible durring the origional MIDAS talks.

2: Actually a proof now rather then anything known then...you don't seem to recognize the difference between IC and OOC...or that this is an IC meeting that you don't have anyone at.

We are RPing the creation of the MIDAS-II treaty and its results. I mean, we are actually RPing it. We are not just saying, "OK, my nation joins suchandsuch."

Part of the MIDAS-II treaty allows for new members to join. If you want to join, you have to try and find a sponsor who has already signed the treaty. To find a sponsor, I think your going to have to show some very good RPing, and a reason they would ICly ask other MIDAS members to let you in.

I think you can do it, but you'll have to put work into it.

Meyer kept his comment short this time. "Is Sunset, or any of us for that matter willing to let a mostly forign body decide our secrecy levels? What about Sunset corporations? Would it be easier to let the holders of a technology decide its level? Though I agree, someone should be there to maintain a list."

"I feel like I must play devil's advocate on this topic. I see a problem in letting a council decide the security levels. No matter what we do, they will have to know what we are trying to protect. And as you know, things have a way of leaking at the worst time, in the worst place. The centralizing of the classification system could possibly open more leaks than it seals."

"Both points are valid. What if we were to simply proceed as we have been? Each keeps their secrets as best they can. If we were to do a treaty, it could be as simple as this:

'If during the course of MIDAS activity one signatory nation learns or is given classified information by another, they shall do all in their power to prevent it's being desiminated. This shall not apply to information sold to a MIDAS nation by it's owner notwithstanding any modifications to any contract.'

You could learn secrets, but you would have to protect them, and you couldn't transfer them. You could go to the nation and purchase them as normal, if they were willing to sell or trade them. This would require a level of trust that is frankly nessecary to continue as a successful body anyway."

OOC: To bed. I will post a 'Flag Council Meeting' thread tomorrow if no one beats me to it. Please, post it here, The Planet Mars forums, and TG it to Ravenspire as he doesn't have a puppet in the region.

Flag Council Thread
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1906310

"Well, I don't think we are going to come to agreement on this subtreaty, or any other. But it isn't a failure, just the end of a very big success.

"This was a summit to make a treaty, and we have done so much more. Not only do we have a treaty, but we have an amendment to that treaty, and a subtreaty leading to the creation of the MIDAS-II Defense Forces.

"I think we have accomplished far more then any of us dreamed, and now it is time to leave the rest to our successers, those of the diplomatic council that we have created.

"So if no one has objections, I will call an end to this meeting that we may all get a happy nights sleep. The next meeting will be that of the permenant diplomatic council in Sunset."

Teres smiled and said goodbye to everyone then left...

Part of the MIDAS-II treaty allows for new members to join. If you want to join, you have to try and find a sponsor who has already signed the treaty. To find a sponsor, I think your going to have to show some very good RPing, and a reason they would ICly ask other MIDAS members to let you in.


OOC: Or you could give me a substantial bribe! I still do background checks, though. Oh and this would be a government bribe and not personal bribe, so expect it to be very high. :p