NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC: This is a summit among "reasonable nations" who believe MIDAS has, or likely will fail. It is to create a new Mars treaty, from scratch, based on the origional ideals of MIDAS.

Only 8 nations are taking part, and those 8 all have messages from Wazzu Elysium. All know who the other 7 are. If your not one of the 8, please keep any comments OOC.

I'll start off assuming everyone who will show, has. Feel free to consider your charicters already here and introductions made (only late if you want them to be late).

IC:

At 114, Dr. James Messer was the oldest Minister of Trade that Wazzu had ever had. Then again, he was the only Wazzu Minister of Trade that had been alive when Rejuv, an anti-aging drug, had first been developed. The drug had turned his hair silver, something he didn't much mind. When the silver turned white, he would mind. But his body still wasn't creating anti-bodies to the Lifeworks product, he probably had another 20 years ahead of him, maybe more.

But to a man of 114, 20 years wasn't a long time. And it was quite likely Brian Walton would loose his seat before then, which would cast the old ministers from power. He wanted this treaty to go through, he needed it to go through. It would be the perfect end for his career, and perhaps put him down in Wazzu history books.

So here he sat, under a small dome, atop a tower, and among diplomatic guests in Wazzu Elysium. With the lights turned low, the red landscape and scattered low buildings of the colony streached out behind everyone, while the one-way glass prevented outside observers.
When the clock hit the appropriate time, he stood, and the guests politely fell silent. Yes he thought, the cream of the crop. These people know diplomacy. It was a welcome change to the events in Sunset he had witnessed third person.

He spoke up in a voice suprisingly strong for someone of his age. "Welcome everyone, and thank you for comming.

"I would like to take this oppertunity to say that while what we create here is in the spirit of the origional concept behind MIDAS, it is something new in and of itself. We can not build the foundations of this treaty on the rotten bones of the old.

"When relationships are made, they are made of what we bring into them. To show faith, I will share Wazzu's true goals and interests.

"Wazzu was founded by corporations, and is now run largely democratically. Our people have always believed in self determination, in self progression. While for us that takes on a corporate nature, we believe that the people of other nations have the right to choose their own methods of government and economy.

"Based on this history, on these principles, there are a few things we wish of this treaty.

"First, we wish this treaty to provide a permanent diplomatic presence between member nations so that we may find solutions to increase commerce, provide mutual support, encourage local stability, allow intra-defense, and foster peaceful relationships.

"Second, we wish this treaty to not violate the soverignty of any participating nation, and preferably not of others.

"Overall, this means we wish for this treaty to develop a diplomatic, treaty-making organization, so that we nations can take part in any economic, defense, police, emergency, aid, or other pact without having to accept those we think would infringe on our national rights.

"What we do not want is an organization that will trample forign nations for the gain of members.

"Those are our motives, our goals. And now we wish to hear your own."

Dr. Messer turned to his right, and invited the diplomat next to him at the circular table to stand and be heard. "Councillor?" He then sat quietly.

The President is still involved at the other conference, as he still wants to make it work, but he has sent Admiral Wainwright to represent Sunset.

"Thank you. I agree with everything you have said, thus cutting my comments short. This treaty cannot trample any nations rights to self-defense, self-determination, and self-preservation. Our goal should be to enhance sovereignty through the creation of choices, not the imposition of rules."

Wainwright nods to Dr. Messer and to the next delegate before he sits. Once seated he shakes hands with Messer. "Quite a nice job stealing my thunder," he smiles.

Dorian Therian smiled as he stood. At 253 years old, he was the youngest ever leader of the Therian nation. This was not by accident, however. He was of the royal line of Therin Timiat, from whom the nation got it's name.

Too young to remember the old days, before his people were set to wandering the stars, he has never had contact with a different species until recently, at the original MIDAS meeting.

He stood to his full 2.7 meter height. His glowing orange eyes closed once, then he began to speak.

"Friends, we are probably the newest people here. My advisers have told me to refrain from telling our story, for fear of being rejected. I will most likely be reprimanded for this, but I believe the only way for us to fully enter into this council is to make our story known."

"The Therian Nation was first created thousands of years ago. Thera, our homeworld, was ravaged by civil war. My ancestor, Therin Timiat, tried to sieze control of the world for selfish reasons. He was defeated, and he and the rest of his followers we banished from the planet, to wander space forever. Little did they know, that instead of punishing the rebels, they saved them."

"Shortly afterward, Thera's star exploded, destroying Thera and all the goodly people on it. All that was left were the rebels. Over thousands of years of wandering, we have found and been rejected by many people, because we are descendant from criminals. This has left my people, changed so very much from the thieves they once were, with a hostile view of the outside world. I would like to change that."

"The Therian nation, or should I say, my advisers, want help with defence, economics, and emergency aid. I want something more for my nation. I want them to learn about other peoples, other cultures. That is my reason for being here. I wish our nations, every person, to become friends. I believe you humans have a saying, 'Friends are Family, and Family is Forever.' That is what I want. Forever."

He sits down, his eyes changing color from orange to red as his scales change from green to blue. He nods to the next councilor, then closes his eyes.

El Bumpa.

( whos next? )

OOC: New ArAreBee, Eniqcir, Ravenspire, Mangala, and Pilon are still left to comment.

EDIT: We'll give them another 24 hours before we continue as if they didn't make it.

*Is OOCly and ICly pissed at Wazzu for this*

*Is OOCly and ICly pissed at Wazzu for this*

OOC: I had to take this action, it is what Wazzu would have done.

Wazzu is all about commerce. For good trade, you need stability. If a bunch of councillors (and leaders) can't acheive stability at a diplomatic meeting, it is pretty hopeless.

But don't be pissed OOCly...I personally thought it was rather good RP.

*Is OOCly and ICly pissed at Wazzu for this*

OOC: I had to take this action, it is what Wazzu would have done.

Wazzu is all about commerce. For good trade, you need stability. If a bunch of councillors (and leaders) can't acheive stability at a diplomatic meeting, it is pretty hopeless.

But don't be pissed OOCly...I personally thought it was rather good RP.

Bandon is a psychopath, what did you expect? Anyways, how about you check the other thread.

Lord Royen stood. Quite conspicuously, he was dressed not in his usual glittering white, but in the khaki uniform of a Water Miner.

"Anything that a ruler does, if he is a good ruler, must be designed for maximum payoff to the citizens. That is a ruler's job. I myself have experience only with matters of security, but I am well aware of other necessities as well."

"It seems to me that interconnectivity, but not necessarily interdependance, builds the strength of nations, and makes them more secure, militarily, economically, and psychologically, and that is good for the citizens. Thus, the ideals presented by Wazzu are entirely in line with our own objectives."

"However! We cannot think only of ourselves. The good of the many must outweigh the good of the few, and we therefore must choose paths that benefit Mars as a whole before those that would benefit only ourselves. Sometimes, in fact often, these paths are not immediately obvious, and may even be entirely counter-intuitive, especially at those times when the best long-term path is one that causes considerable damage in the short-term, like an organ removal, or the cauterization of a wound."

"Whatever organization that we develop should be able to handle these difficulties as well as the more conventional, internal matters of diplomacy and commerce. One such issue comes to mind already: what to do with the Global Aquaduct Network."

OOC: Valinon has some scientific outposts and research stations on Mars, we were wondering if we can send a representative to this meeting. Also, Wazzu, ever given any more thought to the Interstellar Hanseatic League?

(OOC: a clerk is sitting at a desk. "Next Please")

Ravenspire's delegate, one of the foxgirls native to that country, stood. She was difficult to miss: she was an albino -- the condition was relatively more common among foxgirls than among humans -- and her pale, pigmentless skin, reddish eyes, and pink-tinged hair gave her an exotic, unearthly look even for one of her kind. She wore a formal kimono in a midnight blue so dark as to be almost indistinguishable from black, with a starfield of white pinpoints scattered across it, and an obi the same pink color as her hair.

"For those of you who do not know me, I am Winter Akizuki, of the Clan Akizuki, of the Confederacy of Ravenspire," she said. Her voice was soft but firm, and it easily carried throughout the room. "I was born in Kuraboshi Colony, which envelops Deimos. Kuraboshi has been and continues to be Ravenspire's only Martian claim. In the past, however, we have been somewhat distant.

"However, the modern Mars is much different from the untamed red planet that existed when we established the colony. Many new nations have established outposts here, and the terraforming of the planet has progressed swiftly. Mars is no longer a true frontier; civilization has made its approach.

"Ravenspire's purpose, in brief, is to develop closer ties to the major nations of Mars. Trade and cultural exchange is a welcome benefit, but it is the diplomatic opportunities which most entice us."

*Is slightly curious about why I was singled out when Anti-Funitism wasn't. Also curious about why this is happening? New Roan is taking a unilateral stand, and encourages all to do the same.*

(OOC: Nagnag, it's all about YOU YOU YOU. What about my feeling's Wazzu? *cries* Anyway, moving on)

The usual sharply dressed New ArAreBee Delegate, in typical dark cyan uniform, arrived slightly late, with the sounds of screams, honking and crashes following his entrance.

"*ahem* Horribely sorry for the late entrance, engine trouble." said the delegate as he tightened his tie and brushed off his dusty outfit.

"Now, as I'm sure you are all aware of, ArAreBee was founded around 66 million years ago. It was a relatively new colony when compared to others of the ancient AriLaLay Proctorate. However, it was also short lived as it was founded a few centuries before the Core Wars, which proceeded to Drag in every major race in our local Galaxy and the universe. It was quite a long war, considering that is lasted nearly 65 million years. It ended a few centuries ago. The documentation of that war can be found in any New ArAreBee museum if you are interested.

Anyway, afterwards the founding empire was essentially dead, and the now ArAreBeens had evolved into a completely different species, designed for space combat and vacuum habitation. The local powers were swept away and the galaxy was in shambles. The...what would be a good word....Observors, the side we had allied with, sent it's great ships thoughout the universe to safeguard it and to continue on their holy crusade for the unattainable. We were essentially left to d as we please, so they returned to Mars, having gained a rather religious longing for the planet, and found it quite different, which was presumable.

So, seeing as how other powers existed in this area they decided to continue what they did in the war, they became the miners, the investors, the money makers. As they had quite the liberal sense in legalities, they would essentially allow you to do anything as long as you could make money, a large human population arised. And that brings us to present day."

The diplomat sipped a glass of water.

"Now, considering we still wish to see our treaty come through, we will retain a moderate position here. We did not see anything wrong with our treaty, except perhaps the rather lienant acceptance proceedures. And the overall attitude of the attendees."

(OOC: I can blame this all on the dumby who got Siri back in the running. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.))

OOC: Valinon has some scientific outposts and research stations on Mars, we were wondering if we can send a representative to this meeting. Also, Wazzu, ever given any more thought to the Interstellar Hanseatic League?

OOC:

1: No. The nations here were specifically invited ICly due to conduct in the MIDAS thread. I have a policy of not making IC actions because of OOC...stuff.

2: Wazzu is still strictly non-FTL. While I recognize that many nations are FTL, I am not willing to bring Wazzu into that technology yet. I have developed my nation from modern, to where it is now. I want to continue to develop it instead of just throwing it into the far future (without personality, without distinction from other nations).

So the answer is, Wazzu won't join it yet.

*Is slightly curious about why I was singled out when Anti-Funitism wasn't. Also curious about why this is happening? New Roan is taking a unilateral stand, and encourages all to do the same.*

OOC:

1: Nothing particularly cruel about singling out one nation over another, Roania is just used as an example (as are others).

2: It is happening because Wazzu was fed up with the bickering in the MIDAS thread, and felt other nations might be too. Wazzu thinks MIDAS is going nowhere, but sees the need for a Mars treaty.


.
.
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(OOC: I can blame this all on the dumby who got Siri back in the running. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.))

OOC: Ouch! *cowers in corner and cringes*


******
******

In otherwords everyone, *!!!BUMP!!!*

(OOC: ARG! I just typed out a really long post, and then it got eaten! Retyping a shorter version....)

"I believe it should be pretty simple to satisfy the ArAreBeens. I, too, do not see much really wrong with the original treaty, aside from the ease of entry, which led to the breakdown of the first conference."

"We should be able to simply take that document as a prototype, and add and subtract the minor details until we have a document that all eight of us agree on and that suits everyones needs."

"If I may say something more, I believe that a glaring ommission in the original document is the lack of anything concerning environmental control. The terraforming projects have raised atmospheric pressure by a factor of 50 or more, high enough that liquid water is stable almost everywhere. The only thing holding back the formation of the Northern Ocean and Hellas Sea is the Global Aquaduct Network, and the are certain nations who would probably be rather upset if we flooded them over without some previous concensus."

Just because Wazzu is tryin to make a new alliance, don't give up on MIDAS. If any of you would care to look, you'd see I've re-entered the negotiations with a differant delegate. Now all of you! GO POST IN THE OTHER THREAD!!!

Dr. Messer stood and passed a doccument around the small table, with a copy for each delegation.

"I believe you should all recognize the origional MIDAS treaty."

Charter for Martian Interplanetary Defense And Security
MIDAS

Chapter One: Preamble
Whereas Mars has grown to be a power in the Sol system both politically
and militarily, And thus has attracted the interests of Nations,
Corporations, and Alliances, We hereby propose a Federation of Martian
Nations and Sentient Beings. This Federation shall work to ensure the
Betterment, Growth, and Security of Mars.


Chapter Two: Purpose

1.) The settlement of intermartian disputes peacefully, and without outside interference.
2.) The defense of Martian soil from foreign aggressors.
3.) The protection of the freedoms and economy of all signatories.


Chapter Three: ADMITTANCE

A possible applicant must meet one of the following criteria.

1.) A nation-state, colony, outpost, and/or spacestation on Mars.
2.) Valuable assets in the area. Whether these assets allow admition will be reviewed by the Board.

Chapter Four: Security

Martian defense will include, but not limited to:

1.) The defense of a member state against foreign and/or martian aggressions.
2.) The aiding of member states targeted by terrorism.
3.) Breaking Embargoes on member states.

MIDAS defense shall be excluded if:

1.) It is in reply to a unilatteral or multilatteral assault against another nation-state without board permission.

All military nations with a standing military will be required to honor this pledge of security. This united defense force shall be known as M.I.D.A.S. forces.

Chapter Five: STRUCTURE

The main deciding body of MIDAS shall be the General Board. All signatories have one vote.

Admittance to the Board requires a 2/3rd vote if you meet criteria one.
Admittance to the Board requires a 3/4th vote if you meet criteria two.
Declaration of war requires a 3/4th majority.
Ratification of this document requires a 2/3rd majority.

Chapter Six: RATIFICATIONS

Article One:ARBITRATION OF DISAGREEMENTS

Whenever two or more signatory nations shall have a disagreement that might result in the invokation of the treaty Arbitration shall be attempted before hostilities begin. Arbitration can also be requested by two or more signatories in order to avoid said invokation. Arbitration shall always begin as non-binding, with binding Arbitration only avaliable if all parties agree.

NON-BINDING ARBITRATION will adjucated by the uninvolved signatory nations. They will discuss the issue publicly except as decided by a 1/2 vote. Signatory nations may excuse themselves from adjucation if they feel a insurmountable conflict of interest exists. A single lead arbitrator shall be appointed by the arbitrating body to resolve tie votes and assure procedure is followed.

In a case of precieved conflict of interest on the part of a body member the body may vote to remove that member with a 3/4th's majority.

BINDING ARBITRATION shall be the same as Non-Binding Arbitration excepting that in order for the decision of the body to be adopted it shall take a 3/4ths vote. This decision shall be binding with the punishment for non-acceptance being removal from the treaty. All parties must agree to Binding Arbitration in order for it to take place.

SIGNATORIES:
New ArAreBee
Sunset
Tor Yvresse-Mars
Bajon
The Kinslayer
Wazzu
Eniqcir
Aequatio
Kajal Mars
Ravenspire
Qaaolchouraav Mars
Kali Mars Colony
Anti-Funitism (Vascilia County?)
The Silicate Alliance
Mangala
Pilon
NGEN Corp

"We in Wazzu don't believe that the entrance arrangements, as in the treaty, are too weak. We believe the unfortionate incidents in Sunset were the result of two other things.

"First, a base membership of nations was created before the treaty went into effect. Ours were some of these nations, and certain less responsible governments represented others.

"Second, those nations not yet in MIDAS were allowed on the debate floor.

"Together, these caused considerable problems. But Wazzu does not believe these problems were a result of the language in MIDAS.

"What Wazzu is...was worried about in the origional MIDAS treaty was the acceptance of legislation. And here, I must define what I mean.

"Treaties are signed and ratified in whole, and take effect only on those ratifying groups. Legislation is passed by some form of majority, and effects even those who vote against it. Wazzu feels this would lead to less soverignty.

"Wazzu wishes this new treaty to be a treaty making organization, not a law making organization. Therefore we suggest the following changes to the old MIDAS treaty.

Declaration of war requires a 3/4th majority.

"Should be struck out. Defense should be covered by a new and concice treaty made under this one, and affecting only nations signatory to it.

Ratification of this document requires a 2/3rd majority.

"Should be replaced by,

New treaties can be made under this doccument and bind only nations signatory to these new treaties.

"Again, it is Wazzu's wish to create a permenant diplomatic forum to solve problems and acheive goals without infringing on soverignty. This can only be done if nations are not forced to comply with legislation they are not signatory to."

OOC: Sorry, I was gone on Saturday. I think I'll cheat and use some fluid time to say that The Voice of the Council has been here schmoozing from the start, but has yet to make a major declaration.

IC:
The Voice of the Council sat down next to Dr. Messer. "Good evening James, you seem to be doing well this evening." A wicked grin spread over her face. "Though the other summit was much more fun to watch. This one, perhaps, will be more... interesting. So seldom do I get to see so many of us at work in one room without worrying about my own agenda."

OOC: Sorry, I was gone on Saturday. I think I'll cheat and use some fluid time to say that The Voice of the Council has been here schmoozing from the start, but has yet to make a major declaration.

IC:
The Voice of the Council sat down next to Dr. Messer. "Good evening James, you seem to be doing well this evening." A wicked grin spread over her face. "Though the other summit was much more fun to watch. This one, perhaps, will be more... interesting. So seldom do I get to see so many of us at work in one room without worrying about my own agenda."

OOC: I think it would be a bit hard to RP the fluid time, at least in the same thread. I don't want things to get too confusing so I'll stick with the current time (and assume this one thing happened earlier).

Soooo...any comments on the current discussion?

In otherwords, *bump*

So treaties within a treaty? It sounds odd, but it might work. Given that the probably signatories are amoung the most rational nations I know, I believe that approach may work. Perhaps we should have a 100% alteration clause however - if we all wish to change the treaty in some way there should be no need for a seperate treaty to make that change.

As far as a diplomatic forum goes - are we not all sitting at the same table? MIDAS is meant as a mutual defense treaty. If we wish to lay the groundwork for a perminant forum we can certainly do so at the same time.

"Again, it is Wazzu's wish to create a permenant diplomatic forum to solve problems and acheive goals without infringing on soverignty. This can only be done if nations are not forced to comply with legislation they are not signatory to."

"Hear, hear. I agree also with the Sunset delegate, that there should be a 100% alteration clause."

"Wazzu would not be opposed to a 100% alteration clause. However, we must all recognize that even with 8 members, such clauses could be rare. And should this treaty organization expand, such agreement could become extremely rare.

"As long as the 100% clause is in addition to the ability to make seperate, 'mini-treaties', Wazzu would not be opposed to such wording."

*Is slightly curious about why I was singled out when Anti-Funitism wasn't. Also curious about why this is happening? New Roan is taking a unilateral stand, and encourages all to do the same.*

***OOC***

yeah...why did Roania get singled out and I didn't? I pretty much kept my cool through out the whole thing, I got threatened by Roania and Assaulted by Bajon...what ever man MIDAS is still good, because I think merging all these fighting nations into a defence pact would be good because then they wont be able to start pointless wars with each other, not having them in the MIDAS agreement with you is going to create instability and if Wazzu gets his way with his defence pact its going to fall like Rome cause Vascilia County wont stand for being left in the cold especially when we were being responsible.

OOC: Wazzu was only acting in charicter. It will continue to do so. If war is the only acceptable IC response for Vascilia County for not being invited to a summit, I can't change that...though I don't see how it could be such a response.

Also, OOCly, I don't necessarially think MIDAS will fall, only Wazzu (ICly) does...hense this meeting. So don't take it as me trying to kill MIDAS, I'm not. I'm just playing in charicter.

"A 100% alteration clause would work wonderfully, as long as we keep the group small."

OOC: Wazzu was only acting in charicter. It will continue to do so. If war is the only acceptable IC response for Vascilia County for not being invited to a summit, I can't change that...though I don't see how it could be such a response.

Also, OOCly, I don't necessarially think MIDAS will fall, only Wazzu (ICly) does...hense this meeting. So don't take it as me trying to kill MIDAS, I'm not. I'm just playing in charicter.

***OOC***

I never said anything about war...just that forming two seperate defence pacts is a bad idea, like NATO and the Eastern Bloc you know? I never threatened war once ;)

"Well then ladies and gentlemen, so far we have the following doccument."



BLANK treaty

Chapter One: Preamble
Whereas Mars has grown to be a power in the Sol system both politically
and militarily, And thus has attracted the interests of Nations,
Corporations, and Alliances, We hereby propose a Federation of Martian
Nations and Sentient Beings. This Federation shall work to ensure the
Betterment, Growth, and Security of Mars.


Chapter Two: Purpose

1.) The settlement of intermartian disputes peacefully, and without outside interference.
2.) The defense of Martian soil from foreign aggressors.
3.) The protection of the freedoms and economy of all signatories.


Chapter Three: ADMITTANCE

A possible applicant must meet one of the following criteria.

1.) A nation-state, colony, outpost, and/or spacestation on Mars.
2.) Valuable assets in the area. Whether these assets allow admition will be reviewed by the Board.

Chapter Four: Security

Martian defense will include, but not limited to:

1.) The defense of a member state against foreign and/or martian aggressions.
2.) The aiding of member states targeted by terrorism.
3.) Breaking Embargoes on member states.

MIDAS defense shall be excluded if:

1.) It is in reply to a unilatteral or multilatteral assault against another nation-state without board permission.

All military nations with a standing military will be required to honor this pledge of security. This united defense force shall be known as BLANK.

Chapter Five: STRUCTURE

The main deciding body of BLANK shall be the General Board. All signatories have one vote.

Admittance to the Board requires a 2/3rd vote if you meet criteria one.
Admittance to the Board requires a 3/4th vote if you meet criteria two.
Declaration of war requires a 3/4th majority.
Ratification of this document requires unanimous concent.
New treaties made under this doccument apply only to nations signatory to those treaties.

Chapter Six: RATIFICATIONS


"As you can see, changes are in bold.

"I think we have many more to discuss. Shall we discuss admitance? Does anyone have an opinion on how this problem can be solved?"

"For admittance, I think a nation must first express interest in joining. Then, they must convince a member nation that they are worthy of joining. That member nation must sponsor the applicant, and if they do, then the sponsor could bring the matter up in a meeting. This admittance can be discussed for a certain amount of time ( 2 days? ) before a vote must be called. If the vote cannot be carried out by that time, or the vote cannot meet the agreed upon majority, then the applicant is not accepted into this council."

The Pilonian Representative, a young man who is probably in his early 20s from the sight of him, finally arrives at the conference.
As he appoaches the entrance he explains his tardiness: "Sorry, we had to scramble to send out a representative, our ambassadorial staff is quite stretched currently as we are negotiating about 8 different treaties at the moment, and new ambassadors had to be crashcourse trained before we could be sent in to the other 2 treaties we are supposed to be at. I'm here now though is it still all right if I enter?"

We have no objections.

I agree with Kinslayer's proposal regarding admittance. We should determine whether a simple majority or a supermajority is required, however.

Winter Akizuki

The Pilonian Representative, a young man who is probably in his early 20s from the sight of him, finally arrives at the conference.
As he appoaches the entrance he explains his tardiness: "Sorry, we had to scramble to send out a representative, our ambassadorial staff is quite stretched currently as we are negotiating about 8 different treaties at the moment, and new ambassadors had to be crashcourse trained before we could be sent in to the other 2 treaties we are supposed to be at. I'm here now though is it still all right if I enter?"

"Ambassador...ahh...I don't believe we've met. These are...." Dr. James Messer goes on to introduce everyone in the room (read back through the first page for names). "Please, have a seat."

Messer handed a copy of the MIDAS charter with revisions in bold to the Pilon diplomat, then turned back to the table to address everyone.

"Ok, so we can require applicant nations to have a sponsor. As for the majority vote, I would suggest more then a simple majority. We agreed that the MIDAS charter was too easy to get into, and that had 2/3rds and 3/4ths majorities required, depending on Mars assets present.

"Does any nation present have a preference?"

Admiral Wainwright stood up. "I would suggest sticking to the same provisions as the origional treaty. The treaty was simply open to all for a period, with no voting involved. As this is an 'invite only' treaty I feel we have started with a much more stable base, thus new members will only be invited if they seem a good match for this stable base.

The Republic went through a similar 'Sponsorship' process with the Triumvirate of Yut, and while it took some time we were please with the outcome and the process itself. It made us expand our relationships from two nations to five, and now we are quite familiar with all the nations. This application process appeals highly to us, and we would agree to include a refined version in the final document.

An aid walked in the door to the circular, glass-domed, tower-top room in Wazzu Elysium. He almost tiptoed over to Dr. Messier and handed him a single sheet of paper. Messier read carefully, and motioned for the aid to hang his ear lower.

Messier whispered, "Have Jens send a message back. Invite the Menelmacari here, I'll speak to them about this after the meeting."

The aid nodded and left...left Messer wondering how anyone had enough arrogance to claim an entire planet.

"May I suggest a new method of induction? As These first of us were invited into whatever this new treaty may come to be called, I submit that, in order to ensure future stability, that no nation may request membership itself."

"I instead propose that current signatories should take it upon themselves to contact others deemed worthy of joining, and afterwards act as sponsors should the contactees accept the invitation. A Simple majority vote could then be required for induction, or perhaps 4/7, 2/3 or whatever other fraction we decide is best."

"We personally believe that nations should bring their interest to us. Only allowing suggestions would surely lead to stagnation. We personally believe the old method was much better. The majority of the problem causers, as it were, were here before the voting.

Now, considering the more sane of the Martian Big 6 are here, how do you feel about a unified currency? We're just slightly curious."

"Exclusive, or would we allow our native currencies to be used alongside?"

"As it stands now, the changes to the treaty allow for modification of that treaty, or the creation of new treaties. Perhaps a discussion on a unified currancy should wait until we all agree on the changes to the MIDAS treaty?

"Personally, I would also like to come to a final conclusion on new member induction before we move on to another subject. So far, we have suggestions to keep it how it is now, require a request followed by a sponsoring nation, and to require a sponsoring nation but disallow requests.

"Are there any more with a say on the subject before we close it?"

OOC:

You want to know something interisting? We settled Mars in 2165. The current Martian year is 2335....

OOC:

You want to know something interisting? We settled Mars in 2165. The current Martian year is 2335....

OOC: Only by your calender bud.

First thing you have to learn about FFRP...other players exist. The second thing you have to learn about FFRP...you don't decide for other players what is true and what isn't. They decide for themselves.

Just thought I'd share that.

OOC:

You want to know something interisting? We settled Mars in 2165. The current Martian year is 2335....

thread? no thread, no proof, no go.
You can set another colony up, but until then, ADK is not acknowledged as a Martian nation/colony.

(Just staying semi-IC an proteckin' ma hoouuuusssse. :lol:

Dorian leans back in his chair, signaling that he has nothing left to say on this matter.

OOC:

You want to know something interisting? We settled Mars in 2165. The current Martian year is 2335....

OOC: Only by your calender bud.

First thing you have to learn about FFRP...other players exist. The second thing you have to learn about FFRP...you don't decide for other players what is true and what isn't. They decide for themselves.

Just thought I'd share that.

*points to ADK's settlement topic... points to World Factbook entry in The Planet Mars...*

Since this is FFRP, I can be in 2165 if I choose :P

The Pilonian Representative, a young man who is probably in his early 20s from the sight of him, finally arrives at the conference.
As he appoaches the entrance he explains his tardiness: "Sorry, we had to scramble to send out a representative, our ambassadorial staff is quite stretched currently as we are negotiating about 8 different treaties at the moment, and new ambassadors had to be crashcourse trained before we could be sent in to the other 2 treaties we are supposed to be at. I'm here now though is it still all right if I enter?"

"Ambassador...ahh...I don't believe we've met. These are...." Dr. James Messer goes on to introduce everyone in the room (read back through the first page for names). "Please, have a seat."

Messer handed a copy of the MIDAS charter with revisions in bold to the Pilon diplomat, then turned back to the table to address everyone.

"Ok, so we can require applicant nations to have a sponsor. As for the majority vote, I would suggest more then a simple majority. We agreed that the MIDAS charter was too easy to get into, and that had 2/3rds and 3/4ths majorities required, depending on Mars assets present.

"Does any nation present have a preference?"

The young man smiles. "Sorry I forgot to introduce myself. My name is Teres, Teres Simber. For those of you who are even slightly familiar with my country you'll note my last name, I am the grandson of Headspeaker Pilias Simber. I'm being groomed for a position in the Wise Counsel if one of them has to step down or is killed (mumbled - and I pity any who would see that happen)."
Teres looks around the table and individually greets each member there and takes time to note the name and country each representative is from before continuing.
He then takes a seat at his chair and looks over the treaty. After a brief moment where he stares off into space for a few moments he nods to himself and looks over the treaty again.
He then looks up and speaks again:
"We are satisfied with what this treaty is saying. We really don't care which treaty is set up as long as A treaty is set up.
We like the name MIDAS however, it has a catchy name to it. From what my associate at the MIDAS conference tells me its pretty chaotic over there right now. Probably because of a lack of preparation before things were opened up to voting. To avoid that with this treaty we propose that the purpose of this meeting be to set up a planned treaty that can immidiately be open to any member of Mars to sign. All who sign the new treaty are members.
We foresee a problem if both this treaty and the MIDAS treaty are signed. What is to be done about this possibility?
To solve this issue we propose this: If we get this treaty up and running before everything is straightened out at MIDAS we call this treaty the MIDAS treaty and open it up to all members of Mars to sign for a certain period.
After that period those who wish to join must be sponsored by someone who is already a member who brings the applicant's request before the counsel who then discusses for a certain period then votes on the applicant's membership. If a majority of those who vote are in favor the applicant is let in, if a majority is against the applicant is refused.
This last part of course is our proposal for allowing in new membership."

After speaking all of this Teres looks excitedly at all the other members waiting for their reactions. He loved playing ambassador, drawing up treaties was so much fun, he envied Captain Safrin and Ambassador Singleson.

"I disagree," Winter stated after considering the proposal briefly. "From what I hear from my counterpart at the MIDAS summit, that organization is currently in mid-collapse, and the open membership period was at least partially responsible. I would suggest that a viable alliance requires some form of review process for prospective members, and a sponsorship and voting requirement is the simplest, fairest, and most open process in my opinion."

"Mr. Simber, the gathered delegates" Messer swept his arm at those sitting around the table, "are of the opinion that the easy entrance into MIDAS was part of what caused, and is causing continued problems. Most present wish to make entrance requirements tougher, or at least not any easier.

"Indeed, I see how two MIDASes could be a problem, but we can wait before we must decide on a name."

Dr. Messer turned his head now towards another delegate. "Ms." <pause> "Mrs Akizuki? Are you of the opinion that those who wish membership should be allowed to ask nations to sponsor it? Or that contact for potential memebership must be initiated by a current member?"

((I don't think you want to do it that way. Smacks of the Dominion. Maybe they should have to do something of great value to the assembled nations of Mars, like, I don't know, helping to decontaminate the planet after the NGEN war? Not that I'm hinting anything. :P Howabout the Martian Defense Pact?))

((I don't think you want to do it that way. Smacks of the Dominion. Maybe they should have to do something of great value to the assembled nations of Mars, like, I don't know, helping to decontaminate the planet after the NGEN war? Not that I'm hinting anything. :P Howabout the Martian Defense Pact?))

OOC: Shuddup you! :)

The opening pact is meant to do two things.

1: Make a treaty-making or expanding organization...so that eventually it can look at those and other concerns.

2: Make a basic defense...or perhaps more (military) police force to keep Mars stable/secure.

Trying to organize more then that all at the same time would be too difficult.

((Ah. Well, best of luck. I'll just go off and return to my thankless job of terraforming the north pole))

Teres listened to all of the responces.
"I can see your point. I was just hoping to include some of the members that felt that they were left out. Its ok though I think if the members we want in really want in we can support them and get them in... The nation of Pilon supports what the Wazzu representative and others have said. We should set up some kind of entrance system. We like the one where a current member has to sponsor you and then it is debated upon and then voted upon. What we are vary about though is inactive membership. We propose that any votes that are not made do not count at all. Everyone who votes can either abstain, vote yay, or nay. The total votes tallied is whats counted towards the majority or whatever we decide is required for membership."

"As stated previously we would suggest potential members seek us out. It would avoid stagnation, though we would have to be willing to sincerely look at the record of potential applicants. We would also like to call the roll on this issue so that we can proceed to other issues."

Admiral Wainwright sends a message to the ArAreBee delegate: "The idea of a unified currency interests me - but I prefer to keep the primary treaty uncluttered. This might be something best included under the MFTA, or perhaps a single 'open to all' treaty. I don't see a single currency being a flash point for opinions as much as a defense treaty."

ooc: Pilon is very adamant about their Pis, they will not change their currency.

"We are quite willing to accept the sponsor method, although we believe the voting method is more fair, such a sponsor system would certainly lessen the amount of possible entry votes. Would save us time.

As for the currency, it is talk for another time. A conference perhaps, however we ourselves are still considering the idea."

((OOC: Pilon, how do you pronounce your currency? The way I'm doing it makes it sound like something I shouldn't say in public.))

"Ahh, yes, a rollcall sounds like an excellent idea. I believe there are three positions.

1: To require sponsors to first contact potential members.
2: To require interested nations to contact potential sponsors.
3: To not require sponsors and allow direct application.

"As I do not wish to influence the vote as the person conducting this poll, Wazzu will not vote first. If you would please...?"

As the rollcall reached 'E', and therefore 'Eniqcir', the delegation's vote was registered as follows:

1.

At the appropriate time, Wainwright votes.

2.

"We are quite willing to accept the sponsor method, although we believe the voting method is more fair, such a sponsor system would certainly lessen the amount of possible entry votes. Would save us time.

As for the currency, it is talk for another time. A conference perhaps, however we ourselves are still considering the idea."

((OOC: Pilon, how do you pronounce your currency? The way I'm doing it makes it sound like something I shouldn't say in public.))

OOC: its pronounced like the Greek Symbol or the food Pie...

"We are quite willing to accept the sponsor method, although we believe the voting method is more fair, such a sponsor system would certainly lessen the amount of possible entry votes. Would save us time.

As for the currency, it is talk for another time. A conference perhaps, however we ourselves are still considering the idea."

((OOC: Pilon, how do you pronounce your currency? The way I'm doing it makes it sound like something I shouldn't say in public.))

OOC: its pronounced like the Greek Symbol or the food Pie...

"We are quite willing to accept the sponsor method, although we believe the voting method is more fair, such a sponsor system would certainly lessen the amount of possible entry votes. Would save us time.

As for the currency, it is talk for another time. A conference perhaps, however we ourselves are still considering the idea."

((OOC: Pilon, how do you pronounce your currency? The way I'm doing it makes it sound like something I shouldn't say in public.))

OOC: its pronounced like the Greek Symbol or the food Pie...

"We are quite willing to accept the sponsor method, although we believe the voting method is more fair, such a sponsor system would certainly lessen the amount of possible entry votes. Would save us time.

As for the currency, it is talk for another time. A conference perhaps, however we ourselves are still considering the idea."

((OOC: Pilon, how do you pronounce your currency? The way I'm doing it makes it sound like something I shouldn't say in public.))

OOC: its pronounced like the Greek Symbol or the food Pie...

"We are quite willing to accept the sponsor method, although we believe the voting method is more fair, such a sponsor system would certainly lessen the amount of possible entry votes. Would save us time.

As for the currency, it is talk for another time. A conference perhaps, however we ourselves are still considering the idea."

((OOC: Pilon, how do you pronounce your currency? The way I'm doing it makes it sound like something I shouldn't say in public.))

OOC: its pronounced like the Greek Symbol or the food Pie...

As the role call comes to Pilon Teres votes "2"

Dr. Messer turned his head now towards another delegate. "Ms." <pause> "Mrs Akizuki? Are you of the opinion that those who wish membership should be allowed to ask nations to sponsor it? Or that contact for potential memebership must be initiated by a current member?"

"The former," Winter said. Accordingly, when the roll call reached her, she registered her vote for option 2.

The New ArAreBee tapped the ever present laptop.

TWO

As the roll call reached Dorian, he holds up two fingers.

"Two."

***OOC***

You should use the Vascilian League as an example for an appropriate Defence Pact. Basically how we run things is that we are a group of 13 Dictatorships all ruled by the most powerful dictatorship...The most powerful country should get the most votes and if anyone disagree's with any issue that has been voted on they get kicked out of the Pact.

Basically if you do it that way you have one country with a hell of a lot more votes than another, that will encourage sneaky underhanded RP, securing political alliances and what not to gain enough votes to get there way and such.

But yeah Im a bad writer so I dont even know if I got my point across so I'll some it up in point form.

To get MIDAS to work you do it this way

-Give a number of votes to a country based on their population and economic power.
-The Strongest three nations are given Veto's
-And Weak countries will have to band together, possibly forming pacts within the pact.

The Vascilian League would count as a single entity in MIDAS meaning that the combined Population and Economic Strength would put all 13 of us on the top wrungs of the Pact.

Sunset would be on top as well, Probably along with Bajon. All the Weaker countries would have to group together if they want their votes to count for anything...Kinda like a parliamentary system.

But yeah...enough ranting from me :)

***OOC***

You should use the Vascilian League as an example for an appropriate Defence Pact. Basically how we run things is that we are a group of 13 Dictatorships all ruled by the most powerful dictatorship...The most powerful country should get the most votes and if anyone disagree's with any issue that has been voted on they get kicked out of the Pact.

Basically if you do it that way you have one country with a hell of a lot more votes than another, that will encourage sneaky underhanded RP, securing political alliances and what not to gain enough votes to get there way and such.

But yeah Im a bad writer so I dont even know if I got my point across so I'll some it up in point form.

To get MIDAS to work you do it this way

-Give a number of votes to a country based on their population and economic power.
-The Strongest three nations are given Veto's
-And Weak countries will have to band together, possibly forming pacts within the pact.

The Vascilian League would count as a single entity in MIDAS meaning that the combined Population and Economic Strength would put all 13 of us on the top wrungs of the Pact.

Sunset would be on top as well, Probably along with Bajon. All the Weaker countries would have to group together if they want their votes to count for anything...Kinda like a parliamentary system.

But yeah...enough ranting from me :)

ooc: see end of post for a real life example.

IC:
After reading the brief request from Wazzu, the Voice rose to address the delegates.
"We have no direct stake in this treaty, but we wish to speak. Wouldn't it make sense for nation wishing to join the pact to directly contact some sort of committe within the organization itself? This haphazard "sponsor" system seems to be overly complicated. If a nation wishes to join they should contact that comittee and communicate to them their reasons and qualifications for entering the treaty."

"I suppose we would urge the number 3 option, if we had a vote."


ooc: thought a real life example might be useful, this is from NATO's homepage:

Q: What are the conditions for joining NATO? Which countries are eligible?

A: NATO has an open door policy with regard to enlargement. Any European country in a position to further the principles of the Washington Treaty and contribute to security in the Euro-Atlantic area can become a member of the Alliance at the invitation of the North Atlantic Council.

Countries aspiring for NATO membership are also expected to meet certain political, economic and military goals in order to ensure that they will become contributors to Alliance security as well as beneficiaries of it.

NATO’s Membership Action Plan (MAP) is designed to assist aspirant partner countries in their preparations by providing a framework which enables NATO to channel assistance and practical support to them on all aspects of NATO membership.

"It appears I have been outvoted. In that case, what is the next order of business? I had hoped to discuss environmental and border administration issues, but I suppose the possibility of sub-treaties makes those issues irrelevant at the current time."

"I believe now that we have our entrance policy in place we should concentrate on the military aspect - this is a defence treaty, if I'm not mistaken. My proposal is this:

1. Establish a Joint Command Center. This would be nominally manned except during war, and a backup would be built in every signatory nation. During a full scale war the military commanders would come here to direct the efforts.

2. Establish Overall Command. In most cases one specific nation will be the target. Thus my suggestion is that that nation have overall command. If multiple nations are under attack the commands could be broken down into sub-commands.

3. Contribution of Forces. I feel there is no need for a specific force contribution to be made. Nations would be expected to defend each other to the best of their abilities without making unreasonable sacrifices to their own defense. During an attack the commander-in-chief assisted by the other commanders would determine what is needed on a case by case basis. Having politicians tell soldiers how to fight a war is folly of the highest order.

"We agree with Sunset's proposal."

Agreed, though I would propose each member nation designate some small force to act as a joint rapid-deployment force. Such a force would be well-integrated in the case of a surprise attack, meaning less chance of communication errors or incompatible strategies. If we were to base it near the joint command center, then it would also serve as a defense for that center. A member who was a pacifist nation could instead contribute an amount of capital or a supply of necessary goods or services for the force's use.

Winter Akizuki

"A War Room. Such things are always a good idea, but we now have the problem of where to build it. It must be someplace secure, preferably a deep underground installation. One of the three volcanos would be ideal, or perhaps a canyon? Hebes Chasma? Or should we place it in neutral territory?"

"I also agree with Mr. Akizuki's proposal, although how to arrange fair contributions is a bit of a problem. It is my opinion that lending personnel or equipment to the rapid deployment force should be voluntary."

Pilon agrees with Eniqcir here. We think that a rapid deployment force would be a good idea but the force should be voluntary.

"I would suggest a location of geographic neutrality. Since the south pole is occupied I would suggest the northern pole. As deep as it can be constructed, with surrounding bases for this rapid deployment force. A very good idea - though again, voluntary in nature."

"Ah, anywhere in Oceanus Borealis is a good place. The water cover makes it hard for attackers to get to, and protected from orbital strikes, but the maintenance infrastructure for the aquaducts should make it fairly easy for us to get to and construct something there. I foresee problems with Kasei being the only point of entry, though. Difficulties are sure to arise unless we are willing to put in quite a bit of work to make the War Room acessable."

"We Therians do not know much about fixed bases of command or their uses. We have had great successes with mobile command centers. Would it be plausible to build a fixed base of operations and a mobile command and deployment base?"

"Quite feasible. But a mobile command center is by it's nature less permanent and more vulnerable. They are best used as field sub-units in my experience."

Wainwright takes a drink before interjecting. "The republic has both fixed and mobile command points. The fixed points are using for long range strategy. They don't have the 'view of the field' that the mobile command points do, thus the fixed command center usually dispatches forces, handles logistics, etc. The mobile center takes command once they have reached the field, in general relying on the fixed command point for long range information and solutions. I would suggest a similar approach. A center fixed command point, then a sub-point in each signatory nation. Mobile command bases can be established on an ad-hoc basis as the need arises."

OOC: Sorry for my absense. And for the record, Wazzu was going to vote 2...though suggest that concessions in other areas could be made to opposing nations.


Wainwright takes a drink before interjecting. "The republic has both fixed and mobile command points. The fixed points are using for long range strategy. They don't have the 'view of the field' that the mobile command points do, thus the fixed command center usually dispatches forces, handles logistics, etc. The mobile center takes command once they have reached the field, in general relying on the fixed command point for long range information and solutions. I would suggest a similar approach. A center fixed command point, then a sub-point in each signatory nation. Mobile command bases can be established on an ad-hoc basis as the need arises."

IC:

"I would like to take this moment to point out some political geography. Note that Eniqcir, Sunset, and Wazzu all share a connection through their boarders, as do New ArAreBee, The Kinslayer, and our observer nation Mangala. Granted Pilon is somewhat removed, but Ravenspire would make an ideal place from which to repair a combined satelite grid. And Wazzu could move our Ares Station into a direct opposite orbit to take care of others.

"While I am not a military strategist, I like to think I, and we all here have a sound grasp of politics. Any of the nations between us might not allow us overflight or water rights. It seems quite natural therefore that main and secondary permenant bases be set up in each of these groupings of three, which also incidentally gives us access to seperate sides of the planet, and reaction forces likely somewhere nearby...not to mention ease of logistics.

"The large number of other nations these groups of three give us access to would help ensure political freedom of movement of our combined forces."

Royen began mumbling to himself. Hm... I use the whole mobile filed command thing, but that next bit is reminding me of the Foundation for Law And Government.

"I would like to take this moment to point out some political geography. Note that Eniqcir, Sunset, and Wazzu all share a connection through their boarders, as do New ArAreBee, The Kinslayer, and our observer nation Mangala. Granted Pilon is somewhat removed [[OOC: And Ravenspire not shown]].

OOC: For the record, Ravenspire is Deimos. It possesses no territory on Mars proper.

"I would like to take this moment to point out some political geography. Note that Eniqcir, Sunset, and Wazzu all share a connection through their boarders, as do New ArAreBee, The Kinslayer, and our observer nation Mangala. Granted Pilon is somewhat removed [[OOC: And Ravenspire not shown]].

OOC: For the record, Ravenspire is Deimos. It possesses no territory on Mars proper.

OOC: Fixed.

The Voice sipped her kavajava slowly. After watching the proceedings for some time, she again stood and waited to be given the floor.

"Again, Mangala stresses that we are only here in an observer capacity, but since speaking of Deimos, wouldn't it be logical to have the command center constructed on an orbiting body? It wouldn't necessarilly be one of the moons, an asteroid could be moved into a stable orbit and used as a base."

She paused for breath.

"It seems to us that the vast majority of seriously dangerous attacks on Mars will be from an external threat, i.e. a hostile spacefleet. Having a base in orbit would allow a quick reaction to any such attack, and could also serve as a defense station. An orbital base is certainly on neutral ground, and would have a commanding advantage over any on-planet agressors as well. The threat of an orbital bombardment should be a deterrent to any sane Martian nation."

"The only downside to basing so much power off world is that it would necessarilly be cut off from most of the member states in any situation where the planetary comnet went down, and could also be capable of weilding considerable force if it rebelled for some reason. Basing a multinational force on the station should allow us to avoid both those dangers, however. Telepathy would solve the communication problems (ooc: I am right when i assume that at least a few species are capable of this yes?) and the presense of many different nation's forces would prevent any breakaway movement from gaining much ground. The technology to build an orbital base is certainly avaliable, it would provide a nice little contract for several defense companies, (ooc: including MangalanDEFCON, our aerospace contractor ;)) and could also serve as a nice little immigration/naturalization station for arriving travellers."

The Voice sat back in her seat, watching for a reaction.

"Yggdrasil. It is the natural choice if we go for Mangala's suggestion, no? Hardlines to solve communications problems... Ah. But there would be problems with ground accessability. This is, of course, assuming that the rest of you will trust the Snel far enough. They may prove... I wish to say pacifist, but that is not the right word. They are removed, that is it. Uninvolved, usually. Perhaps another elevator could be constructed in the Gulf of Chryse? In any case, Yggdrasil is likely to be a major immigration center."

True, but part of the advantage of a space station is that it is mobile. Not fast, certainly, but it can adjust its position relative to Mars. A space elevator doesn't possess that advantage. In any case, I think a military base/command center and an immigration center have purposes sufficiently different that they should be separate facilities. For one thing, it's foolish to allow strangers into a key military installation, while the purpose of an immigration center is to process those same strangers quickly and efficiently.

Ah, and I should add that the natives of Ravenspire are psychic "voids" -- telepathy won't work, and won't even "notice" our presence. If it should become necessary to employ telepathic communication, we would have to supply our staffers from the ranks of foreign-born immigrants.

Winter Akizuki

"While an orbital base could indeed be useful, wouldn't it also be vulnerable? I recall the deorbiting of Melkor's great space station, who's name escapes me.

"But then, perhaps the nature of the creation of a Mars defense force is not for us to decide here today. Perhaps only the responsibilities of the governments involved are what need to be put into the treaty."

((Okay. I see I was being to subtle. On the strength of past services rendered to the Martian people, I request permission to join this alliance as the Green Mars Delegate))

((Okay. I see I was being to subtle. On the strength of past services rendered to the Martian people, I request permission to join this alliance as the Green Mars Delegate))

OOC: The meeting is closed right now, and will be for the rest of the making of the treaty. Though certainly Roania and anyone else in the Green Mars region will be able to apply by finding a sponsor after the treaty is finalized.

Roania I'll sponsor you when this is all done if you want.

"While an orbital base could indeed be useful, wouldn't it also be vulnerable? I recall the deorbiting of Melkor's great space station, who's name escapes me.

"But then, perhaps the nature of the creation of a Mars defense force is not for us to decide here today. Perhaps only the responsibilities of the governments involved are what need to be put into the treaty."

I think that is a wise idea. We should decide wat it is we want this treaty to do and how we want it to do it. We can decide things like Military plans after we have established this treaty.

"So then, what should be national responsibilities? Mutual defense? Some amount of spending based on population and or economy? Certain land grants towards a Mars defense force? Full technology sharing or just sharing of technological products? What should our nations individual responsibilities to this force be?"

"Some flexibility is warranted," Winter said. "I think we can all agree that any member nation will need to contribute something of value. I'm not sure that we should mandate that that contribution comes in any particular form. Financing, technology, land grants, provision of services, and donation of military forces are all possibilities, but it may be that not all nations would be able to contribute in all of those areas."

"I believe the most reasonable thing would be to start with mutual defense. A simple statement that says:

Signatory Nations will come to the defense of other signatory nations if the aggression is unprovoked. Signatory nations who do not contribute reasonable forces to the defense of a member nation will be ejected. A reasonable contribution shall be decided by the whole based on the aggressive force.

Start with that. Once the treaty is up and running we can add more detail.

"Looks good to me...."

"I agree. But after the conflict, what happens? Do we just leave the defending nation to survive by themselves?"

"Added to our responsiblities should be the giving of aid to nations attacked by outside forces, for the rebuilding of damaged areas and the care of the people inevitably injured and homeless as a result of a war."

Agreed.

Winter Akizuki

(*bump*)

"So then, what should be national responsibilities? Mutual defense? Some amount of spending based on population and or economy? Certain land grants towards a Mars defense force? Full technology sharing or just sharing of technological products? What should our nations individual responsibilities to this force be?"

I think that this Alliance's purpose should be to protect Members of the alliance from foreign threats and to promote the interests of Mars in the international Community. In order to do this we're going to need to establish a Military or at the very least set up a communications system to coordinate a multi-national force against an aggressor.
We're going to want to also encourage trade of Technology and Resources from member nations amongst each other to strengthen the Alliance as a whole. Theres already a free trade agreement in place on Mars and We do not see any reason to try and include anything like that in another treaty. I would caution against setting up too many command bases solely for the purpose of an alliance military as this may tax the resources of the member-nations, at least until we get settled in I think instead we should simply work on strengthening communications and coordination ability between ourselves. Pilon would never fully disclose all of their technological products though we will certainly share a good number of them with other nations.
I think that as a nation in this Alliance your responsibility should be to ensure that Mars' interests are being represented in the international community and that all alliance members are well protected against foreign invasion.

"Some flexibility is warranted," Winter said. "I think we can all agree that any member nation will need to contribute something of value. I'm not sure that we should mandate that that contribution comes in any particular form. Financing, technology, land grants, provision of services, and donation of military forces are all possibilities, but it may be that not all nations would be able to contribute in all of those areas."
This is a good idea. As each of our nations have certain strengths and weaknesses it would be most beneficial to the whole to specialize in something that would help the whole when its all put together rather than requiring certain things from each nation and having some nations more suited to contributions than others.

"I agree. But after the conflict, what happens? Do we just leave the defending nation to survive by themselves?"

"Added to our responsiblities should be the giving of aid to nations attacked by outside forces, for the rebuilding of damaged areas and the care of the people inevitably injured and homeless as a result of a war."
We agree wholeheartedly. We are responsible for those people after we are involved in conflict with their nation.

"While I too would like to see aid to innocent people, it is neither practical nor conductive to maintaining soverignty. It also is not related to defense.

"What we are talking about here is welfare for states, or perhaps healthcare for states. While a valid issue, it is wholely seperate from defense. It also may make the base treaty too large and unwieldy. I suggest we save it for ammendment or new treaty later."

That may be a wise thing to do, we should focus on the core aspects of the treaty and then we can branch out to foreign policy and the like...

:evil: I WILL KILL EVERYONE

Ignores the Newbies first post... of all the places to post first he had to choose here.

"We would agree - let us first settle on the basics. If there are those of us who wish to join in a 'healthcare' treaty we can do so later. The same goes with technology sharing, etc.

As a side note - the MFTA does not mean you must sell everything. It just means what you offer for sale you cannot tax, tariff, etc. The same applies to what you buy. You cannot simply purchase Sunset weapon systems on the free market."

"We would agree - let us first settle on the basics. If there are those of us who wish to join in a 'healthcare' treaty we can do so later. The same goes with technology sharing, etc."

"I second that."

"Ok, so back to basics. Admiral Wainwright of Sunset has said that 'A reasonable contribution shall be decided by the whole based on the aggressive force.' The question is, how? By majority vote? By the displute resolution amendment that was passed in the origional MIDAS meeting? How?"

"A hard question to answer - even the most experienced among us disagree on what is an adequate force. Is overwhelming always the best answer? The honorable delegate from Wazzu had I think the best answer for the present time. We can use the arbitration system, with modification. If the attacked nation requests it an arbitration panel would look at the forces deployed by all. If the defending nation does not request it, they must have felt it adequate. If the arbitration panel feels it was inadequate we can then proceed to a formal ejection vote. Better to vote twice and allow time for new evidence to come forward I think."

...

The Voice of the Council once again took the floor, rising to address the delegates.

"As an official observer of this process, Mangala would like to announce that we have been impressed with the level of debate that has characterized this meeting. It has proven what was recently doubted, namely, that it is in fact possible to conduct peaceful negotiations on a planetary scale. Having seen the unprecedented level of communication and cooporation present here, Mangala believes that our role here is complete. We wish you good luck with the ratification of this treaty, however events at home and in nearby regions compel myself and my entourage to return home."

"We hope, for all of free Mar's sake, that your treaty suceeds. Thank you, that is all."

The Voice rose, and gracefully exited the hall, followed by the Mangalan diplomatic team.

OOC: Nice job guys, let's wrap it up. Oh, and don't think mangala is entirly gone. One or two low ranking diplomatic staff will certainly stay behind, and the local Mangalan Consulate is nearby, just in case anything crazy happens, we'll be around.

Dorian leans forward. "I cannot think of anything more we could add to this treaty. I move for a vote of ratification."

An aid cocks his head to the side, his comm implant recieving a message. Taking a minute to decode it, he leans over and whispers into Dorian's ear. Nodding Dorian leans forward again. "The time has come for any last minute modifications. I have just recived some intelligence reports indicating that the Vascilla County region of Mars has been redying for war. We do not know who, or when, or where, but we do know that they have been very agitated at the MIDAS meeting ever since they thought they weren't being heard. We need to finalize this treaty soon, prefably now, so that we might work together in case of the out break of war."

OOC: Was going to ask your attitude toward our colony martian whittier but just remembered that most of you are in the future.
So I guess Martian Whittier would be irrelevant cause of time frame differences.

An aid cocks his head to the side, his comm implant recieving a message. Taking a minute to decode it, he leans over and whispers into Dorian's ear. Nodding Dorian leans forward again. "The time has come for any last minute modifications. I have just recived some intelligence reports indicating that the Vascilla County region of Mars has been redying for war. We do not know who, or when, or where, but we do know that they have been very agitated at the MIDAS meeting ever since they thought they weren't being heard. We need to finalize this treaty soon, prefably now, so that we might work together in case of the out break of war."

***OOC***

Just to clarify...we've always been readying for war, we've just found a target ;) Vascilia County believes that the Earth colonies were being listened to more than the County itself, Vascilia County prides itself on being some of the oldest independent nations on Mars. The Red Mars Movement is fundamentally geared towards making Mars, for Martians. We have no real intent to hit the non-colonial settlements. Just the all the corporations and Colonies that were formed to exploit Mars and its satellites.

OOC: Granted. What I meant was that we have seen a slight change in your preparation, and a slight increase. Nothing else, and it could be that our sources are incomplete. I haven't decided yet.

How does this sound for a final draft? Once it is in place we can add additional Articles as needed.



Martian Interplanetary Defense And Security Charter

We recognize that Martian Nations are potential targets of Unprovoked Aggression. We establish this Charter to counter this Potential Aggression so that All may see that We will stand strong against Unprovoked Aggression. The Articles contained herein are designed to reinforce individual Sovereignty while providing a strong bulwark of Defense.

Article 1 – Statement of Purpose

Acts of Unprovoked Aggression against a Signatory Nation shall be considered Acts of Aggression against all Signatory Nations. All Signatory Nations shall come to the Defense of the other Signatory Nations; Fielding a Reasonable Force to destroy or deter an Aggressive Force. Signatory Nations who fail to field any Force in a Signatory Nations Defense shall be ejected from the Charter.

Article 2 – Acceptance of New Signatory Nations

Sovereign Nations who wish to become Signatory Nations must seek a Sponsor among the current Signatory Nations. Once a Signatory Nation has accepted the Sponsorship of a Sovereign Nation they shall bring said Nation before the whole for consideration with all due haste. Any Signatory Nation may at any time veto the application. If all Signatory Nations accept the application the Sponsored Nation may then Sign.

Article 3 – Arbitration of Grievances

If a Signatory Nation feels it has not been Reasonably Defended by a Signatory Nation it may call for Arbitration. The whole shall come together, excluding the Accusing Nation and the Accused, and decide whether the charge is true or false based on evidence submitted by the Accuser and the Accused. They will vote on the charges after a period of time, finding them valid or invalid. A Three-Quarters Majority is needed to find the accusations True. If they find they find them True, they will then Vote again after a day has passed. If the same Majority is reached the Accused shall be ejected from the Charter.

Article 4 - Alterations and Additions

This Charter may only be modified by the Agreement of all Signatory Nations. It is also intended to set the groundwork for future treaties involving the Signatory Nations. It should be understood that while any additional Articles and Amendments to this Character will affect the Whole any additional treaties made by the Whole will only affect their Signatories.

We the Undersigned do understand the purpose of this Charter and the Responsibility that Signatory Nations hold.

Signed:
The Kinslayer
Eniqcir

EDIT: Forgot something. Added it. Shouldn't be a problem.

OOC: Granted. What I meant was that we have seen a slight change in your preparation, and a slight increase. Nothing else, and it could be that our sources are incomplete. I haven't decided yet.

***OOC***

Oh well, this seems like its going to be a good role play. Now that Bajon is pretty much out of the picture as far as evil mean bad guys are concerned I reckon Vascilia County can step up to the plate haha.

"Looks good. I'll sign."

"I can think of a lot more details, but for a bare-bones treaty, it's good. As we've said, we can always amend or make sub-treaties."

Royen reached inside his jacket and pulled out a fountain pen.

"Kay, hand it here."

"Gentlemen, it is with pleasure that I enter Wazzu into this treaty."

"As will we. Another strong support in the peaceful Martian community is swinging into place, and we will all need to stay vigilant so that it lays correctly."

"Here, here."

"I don't know that I like the idea of a single veto being enough to deny membership. 100% acceptance may be too strict a standard to set," Winter said. "But this is better than nothing, and it can always be amended later. I will sign on behalf of Ravenspire."

Which she did.

How does this sound for a final draft? Once it is in place we can add additional Articles as needed.



Martian Interplanetary Defense And Security Charter

We recognize that Martian Nations are potential targets of Unprovoked Aggression. We establish this Charter to counter this Potential Aggression so that All may see that We will stand strong against Unprovoked Aggression. The Articles contained herein are designed to reinforce individual Sovereignty while providing a strong bulwark of Defense.

Article 1 – Statement of Purpose

Acts of Unprovoked Aggression against a Signatory Nation shall be considered Acts of Aggression against all Signatory Nations. All Signatory Nations shall come to the Defense of the other Signatory Nations; Fielding a Reasonable Force to destroy or deter an Aggressive Force. Signatory Nations who fail to field any Force in a Signatory Nations Defense shall be ejected from the Charter.

Article 2 – Acceptance of New Signatory Nations

Sovereign Nations who wish to become Signatory Nations must seek a Sponsor among the current Signatory Nations. Once a Signatory Nation has accepted the Sponsorship of a Sovereign Nation they shall bring said Nation before the whole for consideration with all due haste. Any Signatory Nation may at any time veto the application. If all Signatory Nations accept the application the Sponsored Nation may then Sign.

Article 3 – Arbitration of Grievances

If a Signatory Nation feels it has not been Reasonably Defended by a Signatory Nation it may call for Arbitration. The whole shall come together, excluding the Accusing Nation and the Accused, and decide whether the charge is true or false based on evidence submitted by the Accuser and the Accused. They will vote on the charges after a period of time, finding them valid or invalid. A Three-Quarters Majority is needed to find the accusations True. If they find they find them True, they will then Vote again after a day has passed. If the same Majority is reached the Accused shall be ejected from the Charter.

Article 4 - Alterations and Additions

This Charter may only be modified by the Agreement of all Signatory Nations. It is also intended to set the groundwork for future treaties involving the Signatory Nations. It should be understood that while any additional Articles and Amendments to this Character will affect the Whole any additional treaties made by the Whole will only affect their Signatories.

We the Undersigned do understand the purpose of this Charter and the Responsibility that Signatory Nations hold.

Signed:
Eniqcir
New ArAreBee
Pilon
Ravenspire
Sunset
The Kinslayer
Wazzu


EDIT: Forgot something. Added it. Shouldn't be a problem. Put the signatories in alphabetical order.

I believe we are missing the signatures of New ArAreBee and Pilon, unless Mangala would like to sign. As they were invited to attend, I believe they should be allowed to make the choice to sign. Unless there are objections to this?

As far as the 100% clause goes, I am amiable to modification as well. Lets get it up and running first though.

Note that if the original MIDAS continues we will likely change the name. Suggestions?

Pilon signs the treaty.

The New ArAreBeen represenative stamps a multicolored, asymmetrical rune on the treaty.

"New ArAreBee signs this treaty."

"Creativity was never my strongsuit, but what about Martian Defense Charter, or MD?"

Congradulations are in order, all around. Hopefully due to it's very existance the Charter will never need to be invoked.

Is everyone ready to continue the discussion on command and control?

Teres jumped up in the air.
He began stretching his legs and arms and joints.
"AH! much better..."
He then sits down again.
"Now I'm ready to get down to business. What are the proposals for command and control?"

"Let us proceed. C&C is a good thing to start with."

Dr. Messer leaned foreward in his chair a bit and began to speak. "Well, we discussed leadership durring defensive manuvers, that in such times the nation most strongly attacked will take up leadership of joint forces. The first two questions that spring to my mind are 'Is this a good military decision?' and 'who leads in times of peace?'

"I'm sure we all have interests in leading joint forces. How can we reconcile this?"

"'Tis easy. Just screw the idea of a single central leader. Instead, use a council system. Like the ToY, or, heck, even my own government."

"Now, then, as for 'is this a good military decision', sometimes it will be, but a lot of the time it won't. The nation under attack is likely to not be thinking very straight, and what if the enemy switches targets in the middle of a war? We'd have to arrange a transfer of power. I'd propose that every nation remains in control of their own forces, but that the nation under the strongest attack should be given a temporary presiding position over the council, so as to be able to direct and advise the others in what operations would be most beneficial to that nation, but still allowing the other individual nations to do as they see fit in other theatres, as well as allowing for an easy transfer of power."

"I'm not so certain. Councils have a way of turning into comitties that debate and take little action. Allowing the most attacked nation to lead invites debates as to who is the most attacked while enabling an enemy to take advantage of our system. And allowing different commanders complete freedom in different engagements would threaten overall strategy.

"If a council system is used, then I would hope that the position rotates on a time schedule rather then most attacked. Though personally, I am not sure this is the way to go. There has to be a better way. Maybe the creation of a seperate force, or a means of integrating our own forces though an expanded officer exchange, or...something...."

******
******

OOC: I think it would be difficult both ICly and OOCly to organize a "most attacked nation leads" policy. But whether it is the case ICly or not, it might be fun to take turns OOCly in a war commanding forces. Everyone could get a particular day (or just one post) in a war to lead (attacks of) all our forces (while allowing each of us to decide what damage our own people/equipment takes). Might be kinda interesting. Though, it might also be damaging.

The idea of rotational command appeals to me. Perhaps every year (Sunset goes by 1 year per day.) or every 4 years. 4 years would be better as the commander would have time to pick up the nuances of the position and work with his replacement to ensure a smooth continuation of command. Reasonably commanders would then return to their national command center with a better sense of their allied forces capabilities.

Given that thought, I would suggest as part of the control center that officers from each nation's military spend a rotation there if they are being groomed for the position. They could also serve as advisors to the commander and liasons with national militiaries in the field.

"It seems to me that a rotation, however long, will just create a window of oppotunity in which our nations will be vulnerable. I think that a full staff should be picked from all of our member nations to permanently be stationed in command of this joint defense force. This would eliminate the confusion of changing staff or leaders, and allow for the staff to become aquainted and work together smoothly."

"Who would get overall command? Who would control what areas of what forces?"

"But there still must be a commander-general," Winter says. "So we're back to square one. I think that a rotation might be the fairest basis. In order to minimize the change-of-power issues, I propose a Commanding Council, if you will, of three leaders. Each will serve a term of [three RL months], and each [RL month], the oldest member will resign, with the next member in the rotation taking his place. The only hiccup comes at the beginning, when one leader will serve only [one RL month], and another will serve only [two RL months], but I see no way around that. I would further propose that the rotation proceed according to alphabetical order. A decision would, of course, require the assent of at least two leaders, meaning that no one individual would exercise complete power, but the council would remain small enough to minimize bureaucratic delay."

OOC: Or go with weeks, if months seems like too long -- but it's got to be longer than days. A decent war will take at least a week to RP out properly, and some of them can take months, so we want to minimize shifting midstream. Also, I think fluid time demands an RL time measure, for fairness' sake.

"I would assume that would be up to the commanders themselves. Politics should never interfere with the military, and since we are a political body, us appointing someone to lead would count as interfearing in my book. I trust that the military commanders would be able to create their own departments and choose their own commander much better than us politicians."

"An excelent point."

As much as I agree with that statement politicians will have to have some say - this will be as much about being a good ambassador for your nation as it will be about defending the whole. But there is a good point - we could simply assign an equal number of people, then they could work it out. If problems arise, arbitration before the whole treaty council.

"There are some political points to speak on. Such as the making of a centralized command structure, or of an entire force. Or of the sharing of certain technologies or information that may be politically or 'soverignly' damaging. Or of the political nature of anyone in a combined force...do they retain only their national citizenship, or do they gain some sort of MIDAS protection?

"So, there are still many political options to discuss without infringing too much on military matters. I think we need to identify these areas. Ideas anyone?"

"I'm not so certain. Councils have a way of turning into comitties that debate and take little action. Allowing the most attacked nation to lead invites debates as to who is the most attacked while enabling an enemy to take advantage of our system. And allowing different commanders complete freedom in different engagements would threaten overall strategy.

"If a council system is used, then I would hope that the position rotates on a time schedule rather then most attacked. Though personally, I am not sure this is the way to go. There has to be a better way. Maybe the creation of a seperate force, or a means of integrating our own forces though an expanded officer exchange, or...something...."

"You make a good point. I believe Mr. Winter's idea is a rather good compromise, though. As for politics not interfering with the military, I'm afraid that's an unattainable ideal. Military actions always influence politics, and, therefore, politics must always have a say in military actions."

Dr. Messer leaned foreward in his chair a bit and began to speak. "Well, we discussed leadership durring defensive manuvers, that in such times the nation most strongly attacked will take up leadership of joint forces. The first two questions that spring to my mind are 'Is this a good military decision?' and 'who leads in times of peace?'

"I'm sure we all have interests in leading joint forces. How can we reconcile this?"

I propose that we appoint a leader to lead the international force and also appoint most of the command staff. They will take orders from us but will allow for the quick desicion making that is needed during a time of conflict.

"'Tis easy. Just screw the idea of a single central leader. Instead, use a council system. Like the ToY, or, heck, even my own government."

"Now, then, as for 'is this a good military decision', sometimes it will be, but a lot of the time it won't. The nation under attack is likely to not be thinking very straight, and what if the enemy switches targets in the middle of a war? We'd have to arrange a transfer of power. I'd propose that every nation remains in control of their own forces, but that the nation under the strongest attack should be given a temporary presiding position over the council, so as to be able to direct and advise the others in what operations would be most beneficial to that nation, but still allowing the other individual nations to do as they see fit in other theatres, as well as allowing for an easy transfer of power."

It may look good on paper but is not practical. We're talking about a Military command system here. I will give you an example. One of our members is attacked by a hostile force. Under the process you have set up it may take hours or even days for the counsel to decide to defend the country and as you should know a couple days is long enough to destroy any means of defending itself. You need a single commander who is subordinant to the entire member nation's representatives. If a nation is attacked he can make a quick decision and begin coordinating defences.

OOC: I think it would be difficult both ICly and OOCly to organize a "most attacked nation leads" policy. But whether it is the case ICly or not, it might be fun to take turns OOCly in a war commanding forces. Everyone could get a particular day (or just one post) in a war to lead (attacks of) all our forces (while allowing each of us to decide what damage our own people/equipment takes). Might be kinda interesting. Though, it might also be damaging.

OOC: I think that we should have it set up so that the first person to notice an attack on one of our nations could begin to set up the counter attacks led by all nations, this would lead to a quick and devastating attack force that would overpower the attacker before his allies could properly help him out.

"Who would get overall command? Who would control what areas of what forces?"

I think we should appoint people from our own Militaries that are properly qualified to take up the positions. We should try to have at least one representative from each member nation in the commanding positions near the top but other than that I think it should be whoever is most qualified.

"It seems to me that a rotation, however long, will just create a window of oppotunity in which our nations will be vulnerable. I think that a full staff should be picked from all of our member nations to permanently be stationed in command of this joint defense force. This would eliminate the confusion of changing staff or leaders, and allow for the staff to become aquainted and work together smoothly."
I agree, a shifting command system would lead to disorganization and weakness, we need to appoint a single leader who is qualified to lead.
ooc: Anyone of us could use this character if we were attacked I just don't think that setting up a system where it rotates through the members is practical.

"I would assume that would be up to the commanders themselves. Politics should never interfere with the military, and since we are a political body, us appointing someone to lead would count as interfearing in my book. I trust that the military commanders would be able to create their own departments and choose their own commander much better than us politicians."

I agree but we should try to allow for a voice from each member nation in the higher ranking positions.

"And just who would we appoint as that single leader? There is no one free of bias. It would be impossible to find a fair choice."

Of course he won't be free of Bias. We're not looking for a person who is free of Bias, we're looking for someone who is a good general and is capable of taking on the defence of all member-states.
The Bias should not affect his ability to do his job. If it does we will remove him from the position and find someone else. Since this is going to be a military system we need to operate it like one, not a political body.

"How about this. We individually appoint 2 people to the general staff. These can be replaced at the whim of the appointing nation or through the arbitration process if problems arise. If sound choices are made, they will serve for a long time. They can then select a 'High Commander' from among themselves, and a 'Second in Command'. The rest would then form part of the general staff. If the High Commander retires, steps aside, etc there is a highly trained individual familiar with the whole operation to step into his position. The same applies to the Second in Command. Advancement inside of this organization would only occur when the Second or High Commander retires, but this should ensure a long period of time between each."

OOC: As far as the 'election' process goes inside this command structure, I would suggest we roll a die. I'm sure we all have qualified leaders with diifferent experiences, so the only way might be the random way. Just a suggestion though.

"How about this. We individually appoint 2 people to the general staff. These can be replaced at the whim of the appointing nation or through the arbitration process if problems arise. If sound choices are made, they will serve for a long time. They can then select a 'High Commander' from among themselves, and a 'Second in Command'. The rest would then form part of the general staff. If the High Commander retires, steps aside, etc there is a highly trained individual familiar with the whole operation to step into his position. The same applies to the Second in Command. Advancement inside of this organization would only occur when the Second or High Commander retires, but this should ensure a long period of time between each."

OOC: As far as the 'election' process goes inside this command structure, I would suggest we roll a die. I'm sure we all have qualified leaders with diifferent experiences, so the only way might be the random way. Just a suggestion though.

OOC: Or it could make for a fun RP....

OOC: True, but it will still be hard to decide.

IC:
While these proposals are thought on, I want to make another.

The Republic maintains at their own expense a system called MAC, Martian AirSpace Control. Various nations use MAC to avoid collisions, etc. It is a voluntary system - the controllers make orbital insertion suggestions and monitor civilian traffic tied into the system. Craft can override the system and break control by simply issuing new orders - the system is non-intrusive and has no authority other than what the ship's computers give it.

My proposal is to expand this system to signatory nations. This will provide more computer power as well as a wider sensor network to detect potentially hostile traffic before it arrives.

"A MAC system for all Mars wouldn't be difficult. And here I get into sensitive information.

"Wazzu maintains a system of satelites that watches everything in the Earth-Luna system, including ground movement. Except for Wazzu space assets, like shuttles, it is not a traffic control system. But it would be easy enough to use data for that purpose.

"Wazzu can help build such a satelite network for Mars defense forces, and some of that data could be transfered into a MAC-like system.

"There are a few circumstances though. First, the technology behind the satelites is classified. Not sensitive, classified. Wazzu would need to make/repair the satelites on its own...or rather, the satelites would need to be made by Northern Gun, a non-profit corporation of Wazzu. They would be sold to a Mars defense force on a per-cost basis...that is, without profit. Second, those who recieved the unedited data, the defense data before it was censored for civilian MAC employees, would have to swear an oath of secrecy and sign a nondisclosure statement. Even viewing capibilities of this system is potentially damaging for Wazzu.

"But the result would be a total, real-time awareness of everything going on on and around Mars for the Mars defense forces, and a complete tracking system."

Dr. Messer took a deep breath. "All this brings me to a subject I wanted to discuss, the political relationship of people in a Mars defensive force. As I see it, it can be solved in many ways.

"One, all defenders keep their own nationality only. All equipment and technology are only the ones issued by their own governments.

"Two, a combined command force is developed, the officers in which keep their own nationality but also gain a greater MIDAS 'citizenship'" Messier uses the hated two fingers of each hand showing quotes "to protect them from individual national laws when they act in Mars defense, with our dispute-resolution clause deciding what happens to them in case of crimes.

"In this, all enlisted and lower-ranking personal as well as their equipment would remain of their own nationality, subject to that nations laws, and under the authority of that nation until donated to the combined command of Mars for a particular course of action.

"Three, all soldiers enlisted and officer who become a part of a MIDAS defense force would gain the same duel MIDAS and their own national 'citizenship', as in the second option.

"Four, all enlisted and low-ranking officers gain the 'duel citizenship', but the command staff has only the 'citizenship' of MIDAS until their retirement.

"And fifth, all MIDAS defenders officer and enlisted work under a MIDAS citizenship only until their leaving of that force.

"Before I define what position Wazzu favors and outline why, or ask you all if your respective nations prefer one solution to another, I have another question. Does anyone here see another solution? One I have not stated?"

"No, I think that covers all options. I favor the first for several reasons which I will share when we begin discussion.

As far as the satillite system, we of course maintain similar, though since much of Martian traffic on-planet is underground they have a more limited use and deployment. MAC uses a central center on Mars, then data is relayed through the various ships in orbit. A self-scaling network if you will.

"How about this. We individually appoint 2 people to the general staff. These can be replaced at the whim of the appointing nation or through the arbitration process if problems arise. If sound choices are made, they will serve for a long time. They can then select a 'High Commander' from among themselves, and a 'Second in Command'. The rest would then form part of the general staff. If the High Commander retires, steps aside, etc there is a highly trained individual familiar with the whole operation to step into his position. The same applies to the Second in Command. Advancement inside of this organization would only occur when the Second or High Commander retires, but this should ensure a long period of time between each."

OOC: As far as the 'election' process goes inside this command structure, I would suggest we roll a die. I'm sure we all have qualified leaders with diifferent experiences, so the only way might be the random way. Just a suggestion though.

That seems like a reasonable compromise to me.
OOC: I think a RP would be more fun, if it comes down to it we may have to roll a dice but I think if it was RPed properly it wouldn't have to be. I also look forward to a RP like that, it would introduce a bit of character into our Military Commander and his advisors that I think is badly needed.

OOC: True, but it will still be hard to decide.

IC:
While these proposals are thought on, I want to make another.

The Republic maintains at their own expense a system called MAC, Martian AirSpace Control. Various nations use MAC to avoid collisions, etc. It is a voluntary system - the controllers make orbital insertion suggestions and monitor civilian traffic tied into the system. Craft can override the system and break control by simply issuing new orders - the system is non-intrusive and has no authority other than what the ship's computers give it.

My proposal is to expand this system to signatory nations. This will provide more computer power as well as a wider sensor network to detect potentially hostile traffic before it arrives.

What exactly is included currently in this system? Pilon might be willing to link up their detection grid to it which is used for longrange monitoring of just about all of our neighbors and any potential hostiles.

We would favor the 5th option that was proposed by Wazzu.

We have a proposal as well. Well not 1 proposal, 2.
First we propose that some of the less technologically advanced members of MIDAS be given some technologies to bring everyone in the Charter up to a certain standard of technological advancement. This will help keep membernations at a reasonable level when dealing with each other so you don't have an unbalanced force when working together. It will be hard enough with all of the nation specific technology that we are unfamiliar with...we pity anyone who ever is forced to try and use our technology without the Nodelink.

Second we propose that within this Charter there be a new group of nations that voluntarily join that choose to work together to advance technologically, sharing their scientific advancements with each other and coordinating research projects. The reason this must be a voluntary group is because you're going to be allowing access to classified materials and research data and we don't want people shying away from the treaty because they don't want to share their technology.

Outside the conference room, a couple of aids talked.

"It's 2pm, shouldn't they have broken for lunch?"

"Well, they are diplomats, I'll bet they would go all night and all day again without breaking off. It is their passion, their life, and a lot rides on it."

"Maybe so."

"But your right, they probably are hungry. I doubt they would be opposed to a small interuption to bring them food. Why don't you go in and ask what they want?"

"Are you sure? They won't get mad?"

"They will probably love you for it...or be mad because your so late."

"Well, OK." the second says meekly. He quietly opens the door to the room, slips through, and closes it gently...then proceeds to tiptoe (quite literally) to each diplomat in turn, asking what they want in a low whisper.

Teres ordered a Garden Salad, a bowl of fruits (preferable Plums, Oranges, Peaches, and Mangoes), and a Steak, medium rare.


OOC:
mmm.... hungry now must go eat something...

"Steak, stir fried in green and red bell peppers with onions and teriyaki sauce. Water and apple juice."

OOC: Damn, hungry too.

"I would rather not have the soldiers fall under the sovereignty of a new nation. That's what we would be doing, in effect. While we are all reasonable people, we are still flawed. By putting a large chunk of military power in the hands of a military 'nation' we risk a military overthrow. While some here may be miltaristic nations, others are not. We all recognize the advantages and disadvantages to each. I would not want such a change forced on any one of us, especially one caused by our own actions."

"Technology. A tricky issue there. While we would want to have a powerful military of relatively equal strength, we risk proliferation in any kind of sharing situation. Every day our internal intelligence operations foil another selfish plot to export our guarded technologies to other nations. While some of these might be our allies, others are not. Do we want to take the risks that we might lose control over our valuable secrets?

I don't have a problem with a minimum standard - bring our general forces into par with our opponents at least. But after that I would rather we all keep our own technology. It provides flexibility and throws our opponents off. While they may be facing the heat lances of New ArAreBee one moment they would then be facing the phasers of Sunset the next."

Dr. Messer whispers to the Aide, "Chicken Ceasar please."

As the aid leaves, the Wazzu diplomat again addresses the gathered nations.

"I used the term 'citizenship' lightly of course. I am not suggesting making a new nation, but rather a legal protection for those who defend us.

"Perhaps it is best to put it in other terms. We are speaking about making a combined defense force. A force of, hopefully, volunteers from each of our nations to work together to defend our interests.

"But even use of each other's technology gives us hints about it. And even volunteers are liable to face legal problems in each others nations. And even a combined force won't work well unless it is trained to work together. The legal framework I am talking about is how to solve these problems and others.

"What we must weigh is the risk of loss of soverignty to federalism vs. that same risk due to partialism.

"So the question remains, who involved in the MIDAS defence forces is protected by this legal framework, and how far does this legal framework begin. And we are back to my origional five options...plus those anyone else has to offer.

"Further comments?"

"Ice water for us please."

"What about the creation of an international area, where they create the laws are the same for all the people of this treaty. Inside this area, they are subject to those laws only. Once they leave the area, they are subject to the laws of the country in which they are situated, or their own laws if this area is created in un-claimed territory."

"Ice water for us please."

"What about the creation of an international area, where they create the laws are the same for all the people of this treaty. Inside this area, they are subject to those laws only. Once they leave the area, they are subject to the laws of the country in which they are situated, or their own laws if this area is created in un-claimed territory."

"If we provide international land and laws to this force, then we are going further to make it a new nation. And even then, what protects Kinslayer soldiers in Sunset, or Wazzu soldiers in New ArAreBee, or any soldier between two nations?

"What we need is a legal protection for those who protect us, not a new nation."

Dorian inclines his head. "A fair point. The simplest way would be to make a soldier subject to the laws of the nation in which he is stationed, but that could create difficulties."

***OOC***

Impose common law over the alliance, make the alliance like a new country in essence. Where the member nations become states...of course with the right to sucede from the alliance at any time. Thats how The Vascilian League works, minus the right to leave...but another real life example would be the United States of America.

I just saw how you guys were bickering over something that is so simple and threw in my two fascist cents.

***OOC***

Impose common law over the alliance, make the alliance like a new country in essence. Where the member nations become states...of course with the right to sucede from the alliance at any time. Thats how The Vascilian League works, minus the right to leave...but another real life example would be the United States of America.

I just saw how you guys were bickering over something that is so simple and threw in my two fascist cents.

OOC: Which would be kicking the whole 'no reduction in sovereignty' idea right out the window. It's not reasonable - the larger the whole the more federal laws will start to chaff the varied populations as well.

IC:
"Perhaps what we should then do is establish a court martial procedure. A trio of judges - one from the nation where the crime or infraction was alleged to take place, and one from a third nation. These would be officers of at least 2 higher ranks, or judges appointed by the council if no higher officers are avaliable. The punishment for the crime would be decided ad hoc, based on the punishments of the three nations. The justices would decide an appropriate punishment, and thus build case law.

This will keep matters of law internal to the force while making them subject to the laws of their host nation. It does mean our militaries would have to become familiar with the laws of the other nations, but learning about your allies culture can never hurt. It may also help if said forces are fielded to protect against external covert warfare or terrorism."

"Agreed. I hope others do?

"And I've been thinking on this power sharing problem, and listening as well. I think I have at least a partial solution.

"Our alliance through MIDAS, or whatever we will eventually call this, will likely require perminant diplomats. And any common defense force will require shared control. So here are my thoughts on the matter.

"First, set up a permanent diplomatic council. This should be done already. It will ensure quick, efficient, constant, and familiar communication between our governments and serve as an investigative force for all our nations into a combined military force.

"Second, set up a permanent council of high flag officers, one per nation. As discussed earlier, we will rotate on a thirty year [[OOC: real life month]] cycle based on alphabetical order to start, then time of joining for future defence pact members. Those flag officers not in charge will act as seconds to the one who is.

"Third, each nation contributes seven low flag officers. Each will lead a seperate, multi-national force. Each will be responsible for the organization of that force and the completion of its objectives as defined by the military council. This provides a strong chain of command at upper levels while insuring against attacks to soverignty from the lead military councilor or his or her nation.

"Fourth, each force will be multi-national and of approximately equal strength. However, they may be designed for seperate jobs. Some may be organized towards anti-ship warfare, some towards marine forces, some towards merchant escort, and some towards exploration and search and rescue. Our military council will discuss what is needed and how everything should be organized, it is not a concern of ours. It is our concern that each force be roughly equal in strength if not in design or mission, and that each be multi-national. This provides for interdependance without loss of soverignty.

"Fifth, each force will have its own logistics base designed around its needs, and each will be able to access a common defense intelligence pool under the direction of the military council and gained from our own intelligence agencies, not from a common agency. This makes our joint forces reliant on all our nations rather then one or none. In short, it keeps them loyal to us.

"I am sure there is much I am missing. Would anyone care to comment?"

******
******
EDIT: OOC:

In OOC English, that is:

We each make three charicters.

1 to put in a council of diplomats to deal with future diplomatic RP in MIDAS.

1 to put in a council of high flag officers to create the exact nature of a common defense force (something we all donate to, we keep our normal forces).

1 to lead the force we are given.

That way we can all have fun with each other's donated space craft, troops, armored vehicles, etc.

That way we can also respond to anything ICly instantly and just say "the military council dispached my force until or to join another force better suited towards this mission."

"I would rather not have the soldiers fall under the sovereignty of a new nation. That's what we would be doing, in effect. While we are all reasonable people, we are still flawed. By putting a large chunk of military power in the hands of a military 'nation' we risk a military overthrow. While some here may be miltaristic nations, others are not. We all recognize the advantages and disadvantages to each. I would not want such a change forced on any one of us, especially one caused by our own actions."

All it would take is some way of maintaining control over this force to prevent that. We have several options open to us, Brainstapling, a Drug Addiction, or a simple dependance on Monitary support or even a couple well installed Cranial Bombs would suffice.


"Technology. A tricky issue there. While we would want to have a powerful military of relatively equal strength, we risk proliferation in any kind of sharing situation. Every day our internal intelligence operations foil another selfish plot to export our guarded technologies to other nations. While some of these might be our allies, others are not. Do we want to take the risks that we might lose control over our valuable secrets?

That is why we do not share ALL of our secrets, the system I propose is something like a international exchange program between scientists working on similar projects to coordinate the efforts.



I don't have a problem with a minimum standard - bring our general forces into par with our opponents at least. But after that I would rather we all keep our own technology. It provides flexibility and throws our opponents off. While they may be facing the heat lances of New ArAreBee one moment they would then be facing the phasers of Sunset the next."

A good idea but if some nations have inferior technology it wouldn't hurt to improve it with advances from more advanced nations.

"What about the creation of an international area, where they create the laws are the same for all the people of this treaty. Inside this area, they are subject to those laws only. Once they leave the area, they are subject to the laws of the country in which they are situated, or their own laws if this area is created in un-claimed territory."

An interesting idea. We support it.

(OOC: Ai, I'm behind...)

"Vegetable tempura," was Winter's order. "With green tea, please. And miso soup, if you would."


"I would rather not have the soldiers fall under the sovereignty of a new nation. That's what we would be doing, in effect. While we are all reasonable people, we are still flawed. By putting a large chunk of military power in the hands of a military 'nation' we risk a military overthrow. While some here may be miltaristic nations, others are not. We all recognize the advantages and disadvantages to each. I would not want such a change forced on any one of us, especially one caused by our own actions."

All it would take is some way of maintaining control over this force to prevent that. We have several options open to us, Brainstapling, a Drug Addiction, or a simple dependance on Monitary support or even a couple well installed Cranial Bombs would suffice.

"I'm afraid that would be unacceptable to Ravenspire. I doubt any of our citizens would willingly allow invasive measures, particularly ones that would prove detrimental to their health." She twitched an ear. "I concur with the honorable delegate from Wazzu, as far as diplomatic and military leadership is concerned. It is perhaps not the most efficient method, but it is both fair and reasonably safe, providing for some balance of power and for every member nation to share in that power at some point in time. I also agree with the proposal of the honorable delegate from Sunset regarding a military tribunal."

"I agree in whole with the proposal for creating the flag staff. A healthy mix of officers from each nation would provide a check against a dictator, while allowing the nations to get to know each other better. I would call it a motion and second it for voting.

Perhaps in order to reasonably decided what we wish to do technologically we should present our basic military structure and equipment? Thus we know if indeed any have need of improvement. I don't think it likely though - all present are older nations who have had much time to develop. No secrets though, just what you would be willing to contribute."

OOC: I'd rather not spam the thread with fleets and whatnot. If you have a world factbook entry or similar, post it instead. At the very least create a new thread and point to it instead of posting here.

"OK, we'll bring this to a poll. Not a vote mind you, we are simply getting a feel for what everyone in the room would like to see.

"On a Mars defense force,

"Motion 1: The creation of a permanent diplomatic body towards the running of MIDAS and towards our individual investigation of a combined force. Y/N

"Motion 2: The creation of a military council to create the nature of our combined force. Either:
"a) The appointment of one general flag officer [[OOC: to be used as a charicter by all of us]].
"b) The appointment of 2 flag officers per nation, to vote among themselves to choose a first general flag officer, after which the position is gained through merrit by choice of the retiring general.
"c) The appointment of 1 flag officer per nation to create a military council, the general flag officer to be rotated on a 30 year cycle by alphabetical listing of their nation for us first seven, then by order of joining MIDAS.

"Motion 3: The creation of a support staff for that flag council. Y/N

"Motion 4: The creation of seven initial multi-national forces under the flag staff, each to be run by one of our commanders. Y/N

"On related issues, to be included in this defense sub-treaty,

"Motion 5: The creation of a Mars traffic control system. Y/N

"Motion 6: The sharing of some technology to bring less advanced MIDAS nations up to a certain par.

"Motion 7: The creation of a scientific and technology advancement sharing organization.

"Please vote to show what we need to speak more on."

Teres quickly tapped in his votes for the motions as follows:

Motion 1: Yes
Motion 2: B
Motion 3: Yes
Motion 4: Yes
Motion 5: Yes
Motion 6: Yes
Motion 7: Yes

Motion 1: Yes
Motion 2: B
Motion 3: Yes
Motion 4: Yes
Motion 5: Yes
Motion 6: Yes
Motion 7: No

"My feelings are that if we wish to create a scientific treaty, allowing for broad technology sharing, we should make it a sub-treaty. In the Republic scientific initiatives are funded seperately from military initiatives. Bundling the two areas together could create problems of accountability."

1: Y
2: A
3: Y
4: Y
5: Y
6: A
7: N

"A bowl of fried termites, and some lemonade, please."

"I like Sunset's court martial proposal. The Wazzu Delegate's fourth point needs some modification, in my opinion. If we mandate that every force be multinational, we run into gobs of problems. First, what level of diversity counts as multinational? If you say that there must be citizens of a certain number of different countries in each unit, we may end up seeing favoritism. If we say that there must be at least one citizen from every country, we'll end up with unnecessarily large forces. Now, this is just my opinion, but it seems to me that, in matters of assignment, a soldier should have no nationality. He should be assigned to a certain post based entirely on where he is needed. There would of course be a few units all of just one or two nationalities, but most should end up with a pretty good mix, and, really, what does nationality matter when you just want to get a job done right?"

A good idea but if some nations have inferior technology it wouldn't hurt to improve it with advances from more advanced nations.

"I have but one thing to say to that: Nowshock."

"I'd also like to propose a third possibility for Motion 2. What about the appointment of 1 flag officer per nation to create a military council to vote among themselves to choose a first general flag officer who acts to oversee the council, after which the position is gained through merrit by choice of the retiring general."

"I also echo Sunset's sentiments that technological and military dealings should be kept in separate agreements."

All opposed...say die! hahaha

Dorian sits back in his chair, sipping water. He closes his eyes, then punches in his votes.

1:Y
2:B
3:Y
4:Y
5:Y
6:Y
7:N

1: Y
2: C
3: Y
4: Y
5: Y
6: Y
7: N

Dr. Messier punches in his votes before clairifying the fourth point.

"The idea behind several multi-national forces is not to include everyone, but to allow all our nations strengths under the same command structure while preventing that structure from acting against our nations.

"What is any force made of? Space ships, wet navy ships and submarines, fighters, armored units, special forces, and everything else down to the basic grunt. MIDAS does not have production facilities for any of these, nor any kind of training, nor any tax base of its own. This Mars defense force will be run off the donations of our nations, so we will find ourselves with a large variety of all the military units I spoke of.

"To avoid costly and complex retraining for troops that might not be in MIDAS for more then a few years, all these units can be made up of their own nationality. So if Sunset donates a ship, that ship will be run by a Sunset crew, under a Sunset captain, within and as part of a multi-national command structure. If The Kinslayer donates a brigade of tanks, those tanks will be crewed by The Kinslayer soldiers who are already experianced with them, with a Kinslayer brigade commander, and within and as part of a multi-national command structure.

"Thats what I mean by a multi-national force. Donated units can be put into the force where they will be the most useful, and those units will be manned by the originating nationality, but there will be units of many nationalities in the same force.

"Remember, right now we have 7 signatory nations, thats 7 forces. Each of our nations has an officer in command of one, and each of our officers will have a large variety of tools at their disposal. Flexibility, multi-nationalism, security, and potentially technological secrecy as an Eniqcir ship need not train New ArAreBee soldiers about Eniqcir defense secrets."

-------

OOC: In English:

1: We can donate somewhat more advanced technological items to a MIDAS defense force because those items are more secure. Only Wazzu (for example) soldiers will use Wazzu arms unless Wazzu donates them to be used for everyone.

2: When we donate, our donations go 7 ways...or more when more people join. So each of us can use each other's weapons, vehicles, and equipment. Of course, that means providing a few stats, but nothing overly complicated.

3: It means we all have charicters in each of the forces. So if Pilon uses his force, Ravenspire can play out charicters in that force. It encourages charicter oriented RP and allows us all to get involved even if the force we control is somewhere else.

It's the best idea I've had yet. :)

OOC: i like it. and i agree, it is the best idea you've had yet :lol:

"We will, of course, have a general idea of what each part of our units can do. It wouldn't work well for our commanders to command their forces blindly."

OOC: i love stating the obvious for everyone else

Winter entered her votes:

1. Y
2. C
3. Y
4. Y
5. Y
6. N
7. N

1 Yes
2 Yes
3 Yes
4 Yes
5 Yes, would make third part docking so much easier.
6 Yes, as long as we decide what we wish to share.
7 Yes, see above.

The Tallies show up on the computerized table:

1: 7Y
2: 1A, 3B, 2C, ??1Y??
3: 7Y
4: 7Y
5: 7Y
6: 5Y, 1N, ??1A??
7: 2Y, 5N

"Any proponants or opponents of any of this wish to debate their reasons?"

------

In the other room, a couple aides quietly debated where they could find termites, and exactly how safe they would be to consume.

"It seems the setup of a military command is the biggest hurtle at this point - therefore I suggest we ignore it for the time being. Take a chance to think on the various proposals and formalize your thoughts. Meanwhile we can begin drafting language formalizing the various agreed on points. My brain is dry, any ideas on the actual language of the three areas we all agree on?"

OOC: Termites eh? We have some in a zoo, but as this is occuring in Wazzu that would mean a trip. Unless said person doesn't mind having their molecules beamed all over the place. Food replicators could likely do it as well - I know Pilon and myself have similar technologies.

OOC: You're right Sunset, Teres could have some Termites sent via the Nodelink as their molecular blueprints exist in our database. He doesn't know that they are needed however.

"Well, there are the problems of logistics, intelligence, and soverignty. I think these might be solved together.

"In a multi-national force, no one nation will have everything the force needs. I feel confident in saying that although Sunset posesses fabulous technology, in many ways far ahead of Wazzu, there are some things it can not duplicate...there are some things we don't wish any nation to be able to duplicate. I am sure this is a common sentiment.

"I think that one of the responsibilities our nations will hold to the MIDAS forces will be supply. Each of our countries should be responsible for collecting resources our donated forces will be using. I say collected only, not distributed, and I'll get back to that later.

"Another problem is that of intelligence. If we create an intelligence network for this force, then it has the ability to spy on any or all of us. Many nations in the past have had military coups, and I don't think we want that kind of political risk.

"I think that both of these can be solved by addressing the issue of soverignty. Namely, we put checks in the system to prevent it from taking over. Our nations act as a balance for it. I feel logistics and intelligence should both be carried out by whatever high military council we eventually agree on.

"Logistics will be the responsibility of a staff under this high council, and the protection of those logistics the responsibility of each force. In this way, no one force has a monopoly on needed supplies. In this way, the collected forces of a MIDAS defense pact are reliant on our nations to assemble supplies to where they can pick them up. In this way, our units donated to MIDAS can not be forced to fight against our own nations, as they will lack the equipment to do so...and probably the heart.

"An intelligence gathering organization will not be created, not in the way of our nations. Instead, our nations will donate gathered intelligence to a dedicated staff of analysts acting under the military council. In this way, the collected forces of MIDAS are reliant on the political bodies of our states. In this way, the MIDAS forces will also be drawing on intelligence all our states donate, making them quite well informed without wasting resources.

"Overall, putting intelligence and logistics into staffs directly below the military council protects the chain of command, protects from abuse from each others nations and individual forces, and provides expediancy and common information to MIDAS commanders."

Dr. Messer pauses a moment to take a sip of water, but then continues...worrying that he is speaking too much.

"And logistics and intelligence are not the only areas it is possible to put check in. Perhaps a legal investigative force can be put under the political council we have already agreed on. Perhaps a...well...I don't know. I was rather hoping some of you would have suggestions?"

******
******

Some background person somewhere (likely someone to soon be promoted) thought to go to a pet shop. Termites...good food for some pets. The chef however was somewhat taken aback.

"Termites? TERMITES!!! What am I supposed to do with these? How are they seasoned? What are they friend in? How crispy should I serve them? GAH!"

The chef proceeded to pull out clumps of hair while said background person somwhere hopped on the internet and searched for Eniqcir entrees.

(OOC: Wow. Didn't think that would cause so much of a problem... FYI, they're prepared somewhat like chocloate-covered ants.)

"I like. If everything is kept decentralized, not enough power can be gathered in one place for a coup."

"I find the proposed logistics and intelligence chain very sensible - it does keep power from being concentrated, as you say. One question that arises - can intelligence that is 'mined' by the MIDAS intelligence center be handed back to a nation? At first I would say no, but what if the intelligence is vital to prompting a full mobilization of said nations forces, or similar? Many leaders will not act without seeing the information themselves.

The President of the Republic is also the commander in chief - thus for very important decisions he reviews the intelligence first. While this is only an example it illustrates my point I believe."

"Considering that all workers in a MIDAS defense intelligence agency would be citizens and even soldiers of various MIDAS nations, I think it is safe to assume it will be mined under the table or over by someone. Likely, it will be mined by everyone. We all know this, so we will all be careful about what information we give such an agency anyway.

"We may as well save ourselves the hastle and expense of false security measures and political posturing. We are making this treaty for our mutual protection afterall. I would agree that such intelligence could be handed down to nations. In fact, I hope that it would all be."

"I also would hope that any intelligence of that nature would be handed to the nation in question. This is a defense treaty, is it not? What good would this treaty be if the nation in question didn't know of an attack beforehand and was wiped out?"

"Our feelings are the same then on this matter. Shall we proceed to something else or does anyone have any comments on the logistics and intelligence sharing proposals?"

OOC:

I'll try to come up with a nice looking layout for the logistics and intelligence section, unless someone else has a good idea for the layout. I would assume this will be included as an amendment to the main treaty?

OOC: Actually, I think all of it is being developed seperate from the main treaty. A mini-treaty. That way people can still join MIDAS (or whatever) and decide if they want this portion of it later.

As I see it:

Top Rung: MIDAS Diplomatic Council, a permanent council that keeps up diplomacy between nations.

Agencies:
a: Some sort of investigative/legal force to oversee MIDAS joint military and protect MIDAS soldiers.

Second Rung: MIDAS Flag Council, makeup undecided, but basically the military leadership of MIDAS.

Agencies:
a: Intelligence combining & sharing (with MIDAS nations and forces) agency
b: Logistics agency (gather/distribute)

Third Rung: MIDAS International Forces (1 per nation, each responsible to protect own logistics from b)

Agencies: Whatever units are assigned under them by the Flag Council.

And I think we can do a lot more with it, but that is the start. Not sure how it should be written up...I'm pretty wordy (and it should be short and precise).

What you have there will work fine as a basic outline. With some good sentence work, we can likely pull it off in less than a page.

bump

looks good

"Ahhh, excelent!" Dr. Messer exclaimed, as food started to stream into the small room from the hands of not a few aides.

First came ice water for everyone, with a particularly tall glass for the tall Dorian Therian and a couple pitcher in the middle of the table. A glass of apple juice, freashly squeezed from gardens nearby, was sat in front of Admiral Wainwright.

Then came in the salads and soups...miso soup for the exotic Winter Akizuki, and a garden salad and bowl of fruit for young Teres Simber. The aide made several appologetic attempts over the fuit, noting that neither plums nor oranges could be found nearby enough so pluots and kumquats were subsituted...and that plums and oranges would be found and placed in the dignatary's room.

Since not everyone had such a meal, no time was left between serving this and the main course. A small "mug", more like a shot-glass, and ceramic kettle (very hot) of Jasmine scented green tea was placed in front of Winter, along with vegetable tempura. A chicken caesar salad went to Dr. Messier and Admiral Wainwright found himself sitting in front of a teriyaki steak made spicy by the peppers and onions that adorned it. And in front of the khaki uniformed Lord Royen, a bowl fried termites hung underneath the shadow of what was obviously the chef. The middle aged man stood there, looking expectantly at the Lord diplomat, waiting to see how he had done on his first attempt.

As neither Dorian Therian or the as yet unnamed and darkly dressed New ArAreBeen diplomat had chosen food items, each were given a small plate. It could only be assumed that if they wished to, they could pick appitizers off a wonderfully diverse and quite large platter that was placed in the middle of the table.

******
******

After everyone had been served, and while the chef was still looking expectantly at Lord Royen, Dr. Messer again addressed the diplomats.

"Ahh, Ms. Winter, I believe you alone voted no on the motion to bring less advanced MIDAS nations up to par technologically. Could you explain to us why? Maybe your seeing a problem we haven't caught yet."

And in front of the khaki uniformed Lord Royen, a bowl fried termites hung underneath the shadow of what was obviously the chef. The middle aged man stood there, looking expectantly at the Lord diplomat, waiting to see how he had done on his first attempt.

"Ah! Thank you." Lord Royen reached out for a small handful, tossed the insects into his mouth, and chewed thoughtfully, and with soft crunching noises. After swallowing, he fished a small handkercheif out of his back pocket, and spat out a few bits of shell and wing.

He looked up at the man looming over him, and smiled. "You are the chef, I presume? Very good. Sut ratekec. I wonder, could I get a bowl of sugar, too?"

He looked up at the man looming over him, and smiled. "You are the chef, I presume? Very good. Sut ratekec. I wonder, could I get a bowl of sugar, too?"

The chef, quite satisfied with himself, bowed and hurried off to get a bowl of sugar.

EDIT: OOC: That is a *bump* by the way.

As the food was placed in front of Teres he turned his arm so the bottom was facing him. A small compartment opened up revealing a small crystal which he removed. He scanned the food and analyzed the molecular structure of the food then when everything was cleared he returned the crystal to his arm compartment and began to pleasnatly munch on the fruit. He leaned back in his chair and savored the taste as he listened in on the conversations, he wouldcomment when needed but for now he was quite content just to listen, a typical Pilonese Ambassadorial position.

"This is good water. Am I right in assuming that this water came from an underground spring with iron near to it?" Dorian sips some more water. "Very tangy."

"Local sea actually, if you can call it a sea. We've discovered it is still quite clean. The tang comes from oxidation of the water from the iron yes, but there isn't much iron left in the water. We filter such cacinogens out."

OOC: Still waiting for Ms. Winter to respond...but I guess any of us could butt in.

"Yes, yes. You can't make water like this. Very good."

...what in gods name? would a missile attack on the procedings help? for the love of god, get organized before we do something rash!

After everyone had been served, and while the chef was still looking expectantly at Lord Royen, Dr. Messer again addressed the diplomats.

"Ahh, Ms. Winter, I believe you alone voted no on the motion to bring less advanced MIDAS nations up to par technologically. Could you explain to us why? Maybe your seeing a problem we haven't caught yet."

"Primarily as a matter of national policy," Winter began. "Ravenspire normally refrains from selling or otherwise proliferating technology in certain areas. Advanced weaponry and defensive systems, computing systems, advanced power systems, nanotechnology, spacebending, timebending, tectonic and vibratory-control technologies, that sort of thing. We feel that it's best to keep those areas under control."

She pours herself a cup of tea before continuing. "There are other technologies that we could share, of course. But even in those areas, we generally find it best not to cause technological evolution to 'skip' a step. Problems arise when the beneficiaries of the new technology cannot truly understand it, and while reverse-engineering can often suffice for maintenance purposes, it cannot equal the benefits of actual scientific inquiry in the field. In particular, in the course of attempting to reach one advance, a nation might uncover something altogether new -- something they would not find, if the technology they sought were handed them on a plate."

"That said, we do provide help in the form of education and training to citizens of ally nations who are inclined to pursue them."

...what in gods name? would a missile attack on the procedings help? for the love of god, get organized before we do something rash!

OOC:
Treaty's already in effect AF. We are just laying out more detail. If you were to do anything at this point, you wouldlikely be attacked by all 7 of us, just to give it a test run. OOC, of course ;)

IC:
"This is a good reason for not sharing technology - and a good reason for this to be a sub-treaty. Only those interested and willing to accept the risks good and bad would join.

Excellent meal by the way, very thoughtful.

If I could change the topic for but a moment, I feel we have had enough time to think on it. What of the command structure? We can certainly discuss both, though I feel a discussion on a technology sharing treaty would take a very short amount of time."

"The disagreement there," Winter observed, "seems to be whether we should employ a single commander for 'life,' or whether we should rotate on a regular, but reasonably long, interval. The first allows for a more consistent chain of command. However, the second allows for a greater sharing of power among alliance members and, barring a death, a more regular, and presumably more orderly, transfer of that power. Obviously, I believe the second has more advantages." She looked around the table. "Perhaps someone who voted for the other option could elaborate on its advantages, though?"

Problems arise when the beneficiaries of the new technology cannot truly understand it, and while reverse-engineering can often suffice for maintenance purposes, it cannot equal the benefits of actual scientific inquiry in the field.

"I say again, Nowshock. But, yes, let's move on."

"Well, we must agree on a command structure, or we will end up with two of them. That won't do much good. I am of the opinion that the reasonable course would be for us to simply appoint 2, giving us a high commander, his general staff, and 7 leaders for the 7 contingents. Lets them sort out which positions for which person. As far as the time, I feel the majority concurs that it must be rotating. Would the minority be willing to allow this instead?"

I hate the federation and star trek....OOC of course, they're weak minded fools who believe themselves to be high and mighty, I see from your nations website that they think the same. They would never be prepared for the kind of war we would bring them. Their cities will burn and they will be shipped to the salt mines to dig out delicious salt packets for my people...The Federation of Planets is a weak organization, the subjugation of your people will be nothing but a game for my glorious armies...the slaughter of your soldiers will bring my men to rapture for they live for one thing, The destruction of their sworn enemies!

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE OF KHORNE!

...OOC of course

ooc: Your words do little to impress us.

They should...Pilon, your words lack inspiration, conviction, you have nothing to fight for but your own greed. We on the other hand fight for the preservation of Martian Culture and Heritage...these foreign colonials seek to impose their own ways upon us in the Vascilian League and the the traitors...Sunset seek to aid them. Wazzu, a foreign corporation initiates the new MIDAS talks and leaves a vital Martian power out of it...why? no reason what so ever. That act alone has caused instability in our Region.

It is your own fault that we must choose to act upon this, your "pact" is what has infuriated our people and brought the issue of Foriegn Colonialism to light in the County.

A heritage and culture not yet a bare hundred years old? Speak to me of these things when you have spent nearly 300 years watching nations rise, fall, and wither away into nothing. We have watched, and helped, and guided Mars on it's path to greatness. We have encouraged those who enjoy their own sovereignty, and by extension respect the sovereignty of others, to come to Mars. It is a better place because of them, not in spite of them.

Look around - Mars is blue, and green. When we arrived it was red, lifeless. Did you do this? Did I do this? No - WE did this. It would have been impossible without the cooperation of all of us. The young helped with their vitality and enthusiasm, while the old helped with their experience and knowledge.

Consider that before you consider tearing it all down.

Yes, the Kinslayer is a new nation on Mars, having spent a scant few decades here. We value Martian culture, and seek to preserve it. We have taken part in recent efforts to make Mars a planet of life, as I'm sure you have done. You speak with conviction and inspiration, and for that I commend you.

But this treaty was not made for the preservation of Martian culture. Imposing is not our way, nor would we wish it to be. This is a meeting for protection and stability. Your comments in this meeting have been nothing but inflamitory, and your actions more of the same. This does not fit what this treaty is trying to accomplish. We are here by choice. If a voluntary meeting causes such unrest within your region, it just further cements our decision not to initially invite you to this meeting.

OOC:

First, I remind everyone here that Vascilia County does NOT have a representative at the meeting, so we are getting off topic. AF, please stop the hijack. I respect the RP your trying to do, but it isn't something that can be done here. Make a new thread for it.

Second, a correction, Wazzu is not a corporation. Wazzu is a nation run by many corporations (created as a tax haven, and then some), but it is still a nation.

Now, can we get back to the RP please?

OOC: Agreed. Back on track...

Bit of a repeat...

IC:

"So would the minority be willing to accede to a rotating command officer instead of a perminent posting? I do not ask this lightly of course."

has everyone voted?
What were the results of the votes?

1: 7Y
2: 1A, 3B, 2C, ??1Y??
3: 7Y
4: 7Y
5: 7Y
6: 5Y, 1N, ??1A??
7: 2Y, 5N

well the only thing that we voted for that is not in the majority is the scientific thing. (#7)

Aye - but if we let a majority decide without inquiring as to the wishes of the minority, are we not simply removing their choice? I would prefer to be as reasonable as possible especially when it comes to the choice of a sovereign nation.

"Indeed, we are negotiating a sub-treaty. I feel it is in all our interests to insure that everyone else's interest is preserved. To do that, we must be in agreement.

"So I too would like to hear the arguements of all sides. Until then, I do not have reason to change Wazzu's position."

OOC: Wazzu's position is for each nation to appoint 1 person to the Flag council with a rotating command, and 1 person to head each force (which isn't the Flag council)

I agree I was merely pointing out that the only area I am in the minority is the Scientific Research decision and I think that can be solved with a sub-treaty where only those nations that desire to share research will sign and be involved.

OOC: Errr, *bump* Why is it no one disagrees now but we had representation for 4 different positions out of 3 possible earlier?

what is it no one disagrees with?

what is it no one disagrees with?

OOC: This:

"The disagreement there," Winter observed, "seems to be whether we should employ a single commander for 'life,' or whether we should rotate on a regular, but reasonably long, interval. The first allows for a more consistent chain of command. However, the second allows for a greater sharing of power among alliance members and, barring a death, a more regular, and presumably more orderly, transfer of that power. Obviously, I believe the second has more advantages." She looked around the table. "Perhaps someone who voted for the other option could elaborate on its advantages, though?"

That is, the makeup and structure of the Flag council.

OOC: Slow day Wazzu...

IC:

"Reiterating the proposal - Each delegation will select 1 officer, using their own methods, for the high commander/general staff. They will also select 1 officer for the leadership position of their portion of the combined forces. The general staff will choose their own commander (IE RP it) outside of the influence of the diplomatic charter."

OOC: Slow day Wazzu...

IC:

"Reiterating the proposal - Each delegation will select 1 officer, using their own methods, for the high commander/general staff. They will also select 1 officer for the leadership position of their portion of the combined forces. The general staff will choose their own commander (IE RP it) outside of the influence of the diplomatic charter."

OOC: I'd say that was a couple slow days.

IC:

Dr. Messer decided to break the long silence. "OK, so now there doesn't seem to be any difference in opinion. Lets get another call.

"All in favor of the motion to allow signatory nations to appoint one officer to a Flag Council, and one to lead a force, say 'yea'. All opposed say 'nay'."

Messer interjected his "yea" somewhere in the middle, then waited for everyone to finish before speaking up again.

"And everyone in favor of a rotating command structure in a Flag Council, who's initial leadership will be chosen by vote of the members of that council, say 'yea'. All opposed, 'nay'."

Again, Messer intergected his "yea" somewhere in the middle.

OOC2: OK, so just two answers this time. Maybe this will help us get back on track.

OOC: Slow day Wazzu...

IC:

"Reiterating the proposal - Each delegation will select 1 officer, using their own methods, for the high commander/general staff. They will also select 1 officer for the leadership position of their portion of the combined forces. The general staff will choose their own commander (IE RP it) outside of the influence of the diplomatic charter."

OOC: I'd say that was a couple slow days.

IC:

Dr. Messer decided to break the long silence. "OK, so now there doesn't seem to be any difference in opinion. Lets get another call.

"All in favor of the motion to allow signatory nations to appoint one officer to a Flag Council, and one to lead a force, say 'yea'. All opposed say 'nay'."

Messer interjected his "yea" somewhere in the middle, then waited for everyone to finish before speaking up again.

"And everyone in favor of a rotating command structure in a Flag Council, who's initial leadership will be chosen by vote of the members of that council, say 'yea'. All opposed, 'nay'."

Again, Messer intergected his "yea" somewhere in the middle.

OOC2: OK, so just two answers this time. Maybe this will help us get back on track.

"Yea and Yea." Wainwright replied to the call.

---

Just to fill the space, here is my plan for donating forces.

Since Republic ships are in general 'multi-role' and we are envisioning 7 different 'force types' (If not, correct me) each would recieve 5 SBG's (25 ships) with the ships allocated varying with the nature of each force. Assault or combat groups would get a mix of FireBlossom-II Super Heavy Cruisers and Cohort-III Fleet Cruisers, while special operations groups would get Venture-Class Explorers, and so on. These ships would come with crews and support ships (shuttles and fighters) as per their basic complement.

Just a note for those interested, we have not increased the size of the fleet since 1.2 billion. Instead, ships are upgraded and new or improved models of existing ships are introduced to replace aging ships.

"Yay, and yay. Spelled either why-ee-ay or why-ay-why."

yea

OOC: Again, thats two seperate things to say "Yea" or "Nay" in.

The nature of the battlegroups or forces will be up to the military leaders of the flag council. Maybe they will take on different roles, maybe the same, maybe some mix. It is something to be debated IC later with other charicters so that MIDAS2 can go on to other things.

OOC: Just filling space. Edited two yea's in.

Ravenspire, New ArAreBee, and Kinslayer have yet to vote. Bugging in progress... ;)

yea and yea

Winter assents to both measures.

Once the vote had closed, she said, "Next order of business... diplomatic exchange, I believe? That should be easy enough to handle in the traditional manner. Vote by acclamation: does anyone object? If not, let's consider it passed."

(bump)

OOC: Still waiting for New ArAreBee and Kinslayer.

Also, we already voted on a permanent diplomatic council (which I guess will be hosted in Sunset or New ArAreBee), though Wazzu would not ICly be opposed to embasies beyond this except that it seems a bit inefficient.

OOC: Yes, yes we did. Oops. :oops:

New ArAreBee votes yes on the military council.

(I forget the details, but I remember agreeing with it!)

Yay and Yay.

"Then we are all agreed. I'll type up the draft."

OOC: That is, I'll type up the draft tomorrow. Getting late, need sleep soon. Don't want to bother with all the research just now.

OOC: Good. Thank you Kinslayer.

Once Wazzu is done we can appoint our officers and start that RP. That will be interesting, to say the least.

OOC: I have used blue in this post for OOC commentary. Much of it is a translation from pseudo-diplomaticesse to pseudo-English. :)

"Ah, there it is." Dr. Messer finally spoke up. "I've finished a draft of the amendment and one of the subtreaties we have been discussing. I've started with the origional MIDAS-II charter and gone on from there. Please have a look on your datapads and let me know if you have any worries, ideas, or questions." Then he started (late) to dig into his Chicken-Caesar salad feeling thankful that he did not order a hot dish.

Martian Interplanetary Defense And Security Charter

We recognize that Martian Nations are potential targets of Unprovoked Aggression. We establish this Charter to counter this Potential Aggression so that All may see that We will stand strong against Unprovoked Aggression. The Articles contained herein are designed to reinforce individual Sovereignty while providing a strong bulwark of Defense.

Article 1 – Statement of Purpose

Acts of Unprovoked Aggression against a Signatory Nation shall be considered Acts of Aggression against all Signatory Nations. All Signatory Nations shall come to the Defense of the other Signatory Nations; Fielding a Reasonable Force to destroy or deter an Aggressive Force. Signatory Nations who fail to field any Force in a Signatory Nations Defense shall be ejected from the Charter.

Article 2 – Acceptance of New Signatory Nations

Sovereign Nations who wish to become Signatory Nations must seek a Sponsor among the current Signatory Nations. Once a Signatory Nation has accepted the Sponsorship of a Sovereign Nation they shall bring said Nation before the whole for consideration with all due haste. Any Signatory Nation may at any time veto the application. If all Signatory Nations accept the application the Sponsored Nation may then Sign.

Article 3 – Arbitration of Grievances

If a Signatory Nation feels it has not been Reasonably Defended by a Signatory Nation it may call for Arbitration. The whole shall come together, excluding the Accusing Nation and the Accused, and decide whether the charge is true or false based on evidence submitted by the Accuser and the Accused. They will vote on the charges after a period of time, finding them valid or invalid. A Three-Quarters Majority is needed to find the accusations True. If they find they find them True, they will then Vote again after a day has passed. If the same Majority is reached the Accused shall be ejected from the Charter.

Article 4 - Alterations and Additions

This Charter may only be modified by the Agreement of all Signatory Nations. It is also intended to set the groundwork for future treaties involving the Signatory Nations. It should be understood that while any additional Articles and Amendments to this Character will affect the Whole any additional treaties made by the Whole will only affect their Signatories.

We the Undersigned do understand the purpose of this Charter and the Responsibility that Signatory Nations hold.

Signed:

Eniqcir
The Kinslayer
New ArAreBee
Pilon
Ravenspire
Sunset
Wazzu

******
******

Amendment I: Creation of a permanent Diplomatic Council.

In order to establish continuous communications and oversee MIDAS-II, a diplomatic council will be formed. Council members shall be chosen by their respective nations and remain attached as permanent diplomatic staff.

In english, we each choose a charicter. That charicter's everyday job is to meet with the other MIDAS diplomats in whatever host nation we choose. This way any problems we have can be worked out quickly without bringing people from far away or hosting huge summits. It also allows us more options, as below.

******
******

Subtreaty I: Creation of the MIDAS-II Defense Forces.

Section 1: Flag Council.

Subsection A: Makeup

A council of top military decision makers will be formed. The council will consist of 1 member apointed from each nation signatory to this subtreaty. The first head of council will be chosen by vote of the others. The head position will then rotate every 3 decades [[OOC: real life month, simple and not too often]] by alphabetical order of the origional signatory nations, then by order of signing of later signatory nations.

Subsection B: Duties

The Flag Council will be responsible for

1: Creation of a logistics mechanism for M2DForces (see Section 2).
2: Creation of an intelligence analysis and distribution agency.
3: Creation of a legal protection agency for M2DF soldiers.
4: Creation of and makeup of one (1) Force per subtreaty signatory nation.
5: The oversight and general control of these agencies.

Subsection C: Staff

The Flag Council shall have a staff of no more then 10 members per Force per Flag Council Responsibility, plus 10 members directly under each flag officer.

So a maximum of 50 staff per nation, plus any additional needed for the logistic bit (as described below), and the possibility of raising it in the future. Basically to "keep costs low."


Section 2: MIDAS-II Defense Forces (M2DF1 through -> )

Subsection A: Forces

The combined military under the M2DF treaty will be seperated into one (1) force per nation.

1: Each Force will be lead by an officer appointed by a seperate nation.
2: Each Force will be multinational in origin.
3: Each Force Leader will have the authority to promote Group Leaders to Command positions within his M2DF.
4: Each Force Leader will have the authority to discipline Command Leaders in his Force.

Subsection B: Commands

1: Each Force leader will organize his Groups into Commands lead by officers of his own choosing from anywhere inside his force.
2: Each Command Leader will have the authority to discipline any Group Leader in his Command.

Subsection C: Groups

1: Each Group will be uninational in origin
2: Each Group will be lead by an officer of its own nation.
3: Each Group Leader will have the authority to promote and discipline any person in his Group.

OK, so all this does is gives us each a Force, and describes our chain of command as our own Force Leader -> his/her Commanders in different areas (ground/marine commander, fighter squadron leader, etc) -> small Groups, each donated by a single nation with a single purpose in mind (a Group of tanks, a Group of corvettes, a Group of fighters, etc.

This way we all have our main charicter leading our own MIDAS-II Force and we can RP lower-ranking charicters from other nations (accents, race/species, attitudes, etc). We can also RP our own parts of each other's Forces (as long as we agree). So lots of flexibility, lots of RP possibilities, and we each get our own multi-national Force. :)


Section 3: Checks and Balances

Subsection A: Diplomatic Council Oversight and Investigation Agency (DCOIA)

An oversight agency will be created under the Diplomatic Council as proposed in Amendment 1 to the MIDAS-II treaty. This agency will have full rights to investigate legal and ethical disputes within the MIDAS-II Defense Forces. It will report to all members of the Diplomatic Council.

Subsection B: Logistics Agency (M2DFLA)

As per section 4B (below), nations are responsible for supplying the forces they donate. These supplies will be left at donation centers designated by the Flag Council. An agency under the flag council and seperate from the M2DForces will be responsible for delivering these supplies. This agency will not be limited in staff as under section 1C (above) and will include its own defensive (only) vessels.

Subsection C: Intelligence Agency (M2DFIA)

M2DF will NOT have its own intelligence collection agency beyond that available on the battlefield. Intelligence will come solely from M2DF signatory nations and will be combined and further analysed by an intelligence staff as created under section 1B and 1C.


Section 4: Signatory Requirements, Responsibilities, Withdrawl, and Removal

Subsection A: Signatory nations are required to be a part of the MIDAS-II treaty to join and remain in the M2DF subtreaty.

Subsection B: Signatory nations are required to provide one Flag Officer, one Force Officer, staff for those officers, military personal and equipment consistant with that nations ability to provide, and the resources needed to maintain these donations.

Subsection C: Participation in M2DF is voluntary and a signatory nation may remove itself at any time. Upon doing so, assets and personal it has donated to M2DF must be returned at earliest possible chance.

Subsection D: Signatory nations not living up to the terms of this subtreaty may be removed under the dispute clause of the MIDAS-II treaty. Assets and personal it has donated to M2DF must be returned at earliest possible chance..


Section 5: Amendments and Disputes

Subsection A: The M2DF subtreaty may be amended at any time by a unanimous vote of signatory nations.

Subsection B: Disputes will be resolved as per the MIDAS-II treaty.

So the rest was self-explanitory. Don't forget that Dr. Messer wants any comments, complaints, possible changes, etc. etc. that your charicters might want to see in it. That includes anything that I have missed.

Technology Exchange Treaty
(MIDAS Sub-Treaty #3)

Statement of Purpose
The purpose of this treaty is to provide a Regulated means of Exchange of Technology between Signatory Nations.

Regulation of Technology Exchange
Signatory Nations, understanding the Responsibility that this brings, shall endevour to share all existing and recently developed Technologies with the other Signatory Nations. Technologies shall be shared within a period of 1 Terran Year. Penalties for not sharing shall be limited to Expulsion from this Treaty, and review by the MIDAS Diplomatic Council.

Regulating Technology Proliferation
Signatory Nations shall recognize, that as a provision of their Signature, they are responsible for keeping the Technology gained Secret. It cannot be sold, except as a seperate Agreement between the originating Nation, or traded, excepting permission from the forestated Nation. Failure to keep it out of outside hands shall result in Review by the Signatory Nations, with the option of Expulsion with a Two Thirds Vote.

Signatory Nations:

OOC: guess that means i'll have to tell you guys about my amoeba tech.

OOC: guess that means i'll have to tell you guys about my amoeba tech.

OOC: Only if you sign the second subtreaty.

I don't like to describe this OOCly, but Wazzu won't. The corporations that control Wazzu won't give up their production secrets, and the military and government won't give out defense secrets.

"While the Republic will not be signing the technology treaty (OOC: Yes, though I wrote it.) we find the idea of bringing those in need up to a certain level. Therefore we will sign the treaty in a 'monitoring' position if no one objects. Instead of providing technologies directly we will provide the groundwork for nations to develop it on their own. We feel this is a great way to proceed - other nations and scientists may have an entirely different take on the technology that will advance science in directions unheard of."

OOC: Kinslayer, interested in sharing the Ameoba tech at all? We would work something out for combined research into the craft that will hopefully be recovered from Reason if things go well. Let's take it to TG though.