NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC: Coming soon... the TJF-9, guess I may as well reveal it.

OOC: Yay for forums being up again. Take a quiz (
http://quizilla.com/users/TJHairball/quizzes/Battleship%20Quiz) while you wait for real posts.

Public debate has been centered over the NDOTJ's "overly militaristic" habit of keeping and occasionally producing battleships, which have clearly no use but in offensive capability (unlike many other vessels, which could be considered research aids, emergency cargo haulers, rescue vessels, and deep water science stations in their spare time.)

Cited is the fact that Tahar Joblis has not been at war for years; faint memories of their use in the Allanean War impinge little upon the consciousness as relevant to today.

Public Briefing: TJF-9 Experimental Fighter Unit
Length: 8.7m
Maximum Speed, Low Profile Flight: ~Mach 0.9
Maximum Speed, Full Power: [CLASSIFIED]
Payload @ Normal Flight Profile: 3 mountings, up to 2000 pounds payload per hardpoint attachment.
Crew: 1
Carrier Compatible: Theoretically so.
Fuel Capacity: [CLASSIFIED]
Maximum Operating Radius: [CLASSIFIED] (Supplemented by high efficiency solar cells.)
Notes: Can burn methane for fuel.
Appropriations Specification:
TJF-9 Experimental Fighter Unit
Plans:
Drive Units: 4x Class A Single Fusion Plasma Accelerative Coil (Primary Drive Units), 4x Class B Multiplex Fusion Plasma Accelerative Coil (Secondary Drive Units.)
Power Source: Triply redundant A7 spec 15EW fusion power plants, secondary solar cell units (~200 sq m).
Safe Water Landings: No.
Protection Schema: High absorbtion SOL-RA external layer, insulative layer, ablative layer and tertiary internal baffling.
Primary Armament: 4x High Power Class I Focused Fusion Cannon, 4x High Power Class II Focused Fusion Cannon Multiplex Units.
Cockpit: Internal, damped, oxygenated fluid basis.
Sensor systems: Internal gravimetric, subsurface temperature/current sensors in conjunction with directional radar emitters, class VII LIDAR emitters, secondary optical systems.
Dimensions: 10-8.7m cross section range, near-tetrahedral.
Operational Briefing [TOP SECRET] TJF-9
[i]The TJF-9 is a revolutionary fighter of top secret design. It is imperative that details of this design do not leak out. The TJF-9 is a 250 ton fighter roughly 10m on a side and tetrahedral. Guess what that means? It means we think that keeping the design secret is more important than being able to make safe water landings most of the time. That means stay sharp.
The propulsion system is a system of primary and secondary fusion powered rockets. They use spent fusion fuel as propellant. Four primary rockets are located in the middle of each side; secondary systems are located at the corner, with spin stabilizing and creating coils oriented along the edges and venting at the corners. This system also doubles as the primary combat coolant system and your primary weapons system. It's a very graceful solution and provides high maneuverability. The downside is that the really high powered shots have a major recoil.
Because of this, damage control considerations, and the high acceleration capabilities, it was decided early on to move to an oxygenated fluid cockpit system.
Protection is extremely good, although the deeply enclosed fluid cockpit makes ejection a major hassle.

The outside layer of the TJF-9 is a highly absorbent solar cell material originally intended as a brute force approach to near-Solar missions; very efficient, dense, highly absorbent, and with an extraordinary capacity for energy, this is not only a secondary power supply to improve fuel economy on long missions, but absorbs radar and lidar of most frequencies alarmingly well (stealth characteristics, in addition to the sharp angling of the tetrahedral fighters - which helps insure that reflected EM radiation goes bouncing away from the emitters) and makes lightweight energy weapons more a boon than a nuisance. A sufficiently heavy laser weapon is liable to overwhelm the nearly meter thick absorbent layer, however, penetrating through the insulative/ablative layer and possibly to the secondary layer of high reflectivity armor, depending upon its frequency, duration, and energy. A fourth absorbtive layer of memory material is universal; beyond that, only selective baffles and the innards of the fighter stand against an impinging weapon.

The high thermal tolerances and conversion factors - along with the sheer thickness - provide good protection against high energy particle weapons, and the nearly organic "memory" nature of the primary protective layer also gives a high endurance vs micrometeors and purely kinetic weapons not sufficient to singularly penetrate the entire armor system. All told, roughly 20% of the mass of the fighter comes down to systems directly relating to protection; between the advanced and unusual nature of the system and its compact size (and high overall density), this makes the TJF-9 extremely tough.

The TJF-9 is highly maneuverable, but neither graceful nor unusually aerodynamic. In atmosphere, the high heat levels reradiated make it anything but stealthy at high speeds.

Due to the nature of the secondary power system/protective system, getting a fully functional sensor suite on the TJF-9 to the degree required to match probable competitors is extremely difficult. External sensor pods appear to be one of the best solutions; careful realtime analysis of temperature and electrical output of the outer layer does provide for some receptivity, particularly when combined with limited directional (but powerful) radar systems. The Class VII LIDAR system is not particularly great as a sensor system due to its relative lack of flexibility and low emitter arcs, but set to "High" power, it is a weapons system in its own right of some utility. Optical sensors - small and externally mounted - are highly vulnerable and highly limited in resolution. Sensor pods are also vulnerable, but a very feasible solution for extraterrestrial operations.

Missile or laser cluster pods are considered to be of very high utility to provide secondary firepower, although the hardpoint datajacks for control are limited in number. Expendable weapons are to be preferred due to the vulnerability of the pods vs the actual fighter chassis.

Mass distribution, no pods, approximate:
~50 tons armor, ~15 tons C&C&C&C, 20 tons chassis and shock distribution, 25 tons reactor and power systems, 70 tons drive/weapons systems, 40 tons fuel (methane load), 10 tons fuel containment/routing/coolant piping/coolant system, 20 tons auxiliary high density power storage. Methane is not the most energetic fuel loadout possible, but the very common availability and low wear resulting from primarily using methane (or "heavy" methane with deuterium) make it a reasonably useful fuel, particularly when enriched with lithium deuteride pellets; generally, 40 tons of regular methane is sufficient to hold out against combat level expenditures for the duration of an intense space battle, and little fuel is expended during patrols.

OOC: As you may have noticed in comparing this thread (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=341032) with the above (earlier) post, such Tahar Joblissan space-capable military forces as exist tend to be rather noticably understated. It would be very easy to look at selected "public" (i.e., available and true) statistics for the TJF-9 and estimate it to be a pushover - which, by most standards, it is not. This is, in fact, deliberate.

The Tahar Joblissan colonists - some of them, anyway - have been constructing a variety of purely military ships. Since this is not a centralized effort, although it is a very significant one in scale and philosophy, the design philosophy of the fleet varies wildly, and the overall fleet is not well practiced in real full fleet maneuvers, although many portions have worked together.

By rough comparison of similarly massed vessels used by ToY and others, a general conclusion is that Tahar Joblissan ships tend to be densely constructed, often having an overall density similar to wet-navy submersible vessels with emptied ballast. This varies greatly, of course, with some TJ ships having ~4.7 times the density of other TJ ships (the Hammer battleship compares such with respect to the Liger cruiser class - the latter class of four ships is influenced strongly by the Triumvirate Tiger cruiser) but making accurate estimation of a ship's power by its volume very difficult.

On the whole, Tahar Joblissan ships are also very well protected. Armoring alone compares strongly with that of many other types, with armor taking up 4-26% of a ships mass, and other protective systems potentially consuming the entire power output of the ship in some cases. This is generally comparable to pre-WWII armored vessels, although the scale is not entirely identical and no TJ ship yet designed has as high an armor/mass ratio as the Richelieu class of battleship. Combined with the highly varied shapes of Tahar Joblissan ships, which may be solid geometric blocks, as in the TJF-9, or graceful arching "winged" or split vessels, or (not infrequently) narrow "needles" with optional pods, this makes evaluating TJ ships in comparison to each other from still 2-D shots or specsheets entirely too complicated. A battleship may have a similar length, prow to stern, than a corvette, if you pick your pair correctly.

Ships may be named after ideas (the carrier named Demokratiya! Soyuz! Revolutsia! invokes the perennial favorites of national unity, democracy, and revolution, for example), mythical beasts (e.g., Dragon battleship), gods (Thor class frigate with its thunderous gauss cannons), a primary intended mission (Speaker-To-Pirates battlecruiser), a weapon (Rapier class destroyer), or even a political position (the Seventeen Month Mayoral Term Limits cruiser comes to mind), or just randomly (Lawn Gnome DDG, with optional pair of Pink Flamingo missile pods.) The TJF-9 is used far more extensively in roughly a hundred different production models than most ground-based Tahar Joblissan military analysts suspect; all are quite similar, and most can be operationally substituted for one another.

Class designations have been collectively arrived at by the assorted colonial fleets; they largely follow a similar scheme to Triumvirate vessels.

CV, or Carrier, refers to in general any ship whose primary combat mechanism is the deployment of subcraft, from small combat drones to large anti-capship "bombers."
CVE - Escort Carrier - refers specifically to a carrier that is cruiser or destroyer sized.
CVL means "light carrier."
CT - Corvette - refers to a lightweight patrol vessel. This is the smallest class of independently operating warship.
FF - Frigate - refers to a light escort vessel. Due to the nature of Tahar Joblissan computation of the light screening role, this is largely intended as a picket/anti-fighter vessel, and is thus lighter than a destroyer and heavier than a corvette. This departs from conventional wetside designation. Ships heavier than destroyers and lighter than
DD - Destroyer - is a vessel intended to be powerful enough that enemy warships cannot afford to ignore it; tactically, the destroyer is intended to provide a real threat to enemy warships, hunt down larger pirate vessels, and act in fleet engagements. They are also intended, at the upper limit, to be small enough to risk operating without an escort, and not large enough to provide the centerpoint of a true fleet action.
CC - Cruiser - is the smallest grade of capital warship. Cruisers are intended to provide central operations and/or operate independently at the head of a small task force. Conventional wisdom is that these provide the bulk of the force, although the relatively small slice they represent of the Tahar Joblissan fleet make this difficult. Cruiser operations generally require escort, and cruisers often carry a variety of tools to accomplish their missions.
BC - Battlecruiser - is a fast heavy cruiser of sorts. Definitively a capital warship and more powerful than cruisers, their primary role has traditionally been to hunt smaller enemy warships. Nevertheless, their smaller size does not allow them to be as durable or as powerful as battleships on the same speed, so one or both are typically sacrificed.
BB - Battleship - refers to the largest ships that are not carriers, although they can provide a certain amount of fighter screen for their own purposes.
DN - Dreadnaught - refers to a fully capital warship, differentiated from battleships by not having a fighter screen and being generally more intended to take out enemy heavy ships.
F - Fighter - refers to a light ship designed to fight other light ships or possibly attack larger enemy ships, but small enough to be operated from small platforms and practically disappear in the shadow of larger ships.
B - Bomber - refers to a light ship intended to attack larger ships, generally by using a significant detachable payload of large missiles.

Current inventory indicates a relatively small fleet, as most Tahar Joblissan colonists are peaceful. Specifically:
BB 3
DN 2
BC 4
CC 25
DD 104
FF 70
CT414
CV 66

Of course, due to the wide variance in warship tonnage, the distribution of warship classes by mass or cubage is rather different. Roughly 14% of the fleet's tonnage lies in the FF/CT mass range - light patrol, picket, or escort vessels from tiny to small (variation factor 25x) - 29% in destroyers (a fleet mainstay by any standard, variation factor 2x), 26% in the broad cruiser weight range (variation factor <2x), and more or less 31% in vessels heavier than that (i.e., heavy capital ships.) In other words, the power and emphasis lies more heavily on capital ships than might be assumed from the small numbers of BC/BB/DN class vessels.

The mass of fighters and bombers is low in comparison (less than the FF/CT share of mass) and was not taken independently; such are considered as part of the mass of their appropriate carriers for general accounting purposes, as they don't operate independently fairly often. That some are operated by civil vessels or stations as light short range patrol and emergency protection at times does, of course, complicate matters.

Of course, the later development of a true Starfighter would complicate things even more, but that was another story for another time, and one most curious in its nature.

The Free Land of Trowaria can not support any war or mechanisms of war except in event of a hostile takeover by a psychotic dictator.

The Incorporated States of Sarzonia respectfully disagrees with Trowaria with regard to the construction of military facilities or weapons of war. We also fervently believe in peace, but we believe that disarmament does not deter potential enemies. To ensure that your country remains at peace, you must show an ability to defend your lands from hostile lands.

[OOC: What I've said is "you don't deter by disarmament; you deter by scaring the shit out of people" but that's not quite national philosophy-worthy.]

IRIS
Integrated Recoilless Infantry Support armor unit.
IRIS is a heavy exoskeleton unit, one of the largest and most powerful such suits released to date. The Tahar Joblissan Marines say that it stretches the limits of the utility of the humanoid design, being of similar visibility in many situations to a light vehicle. The suit measures fully nine feet tall standing straight up and has an operational combat mass of approximately a ton. It is slower than the ORO or UBU, being hampered by the large size/musculature necessary to mount its weaponry. Although the Marines are somewhat displeased with the large size and requisite energy consumption of the fully loaded IRIS, they are quite pleased by its support firepower characteristics. Tahar Joblissan infantry doctrine has centered around small, mobile forces, primarily light vehicles supporting powered armor infantry. The IRIS is designed to adapt the full support firepower characteristics of many light vehicles onto a powered armor suit, freeing up vehicles for transport, supply, and coordination operations. The IRIS's main firepower comes from a pair of 106mm recoilless rifles. Although the ORO can mount a robust 50mm high velocity Tahar Joblissan recoilless rifle or, in a relatively popular refit, the Carl Gustav 84mm lightweight recoilless rifle, its standard armament is a 20mm cannon, and the sheer firepower of the 106mm recoilless allows the IRIS to ambush main battle tanks reasonably well. The 106mm rifles can also be used for heavy anti-infantry support and for flushing snipers out of buildings in urban fighting. Quick reload slots allow the IRIS to recharge, refuel, and reload ammunition in a hurry, returning to the front in short order. Quick release hatches allow the IRIS to discard the rifles in an emergency and move quickly. 0.50 caliber machine guns on the inner arms provide for emergency close firepower, and six light anti-air missiles in back-shoulder vertical tubes provide for light anti-air support.

In light of a publicly perceived threat to Tahar Joblissan vessels, the NDOTJ is looking into the possibility of providing armament for any and all vessels of Tahar Joblissan registry rather than strictly naval vessels alone.

OOC: Input is welcome. Speak up :)

Intel Brief:
To: DELETED
From: DELETED
Hey, check out what our operative in the Island of Intellectual Tar Jabberwockies dug up. See attachment.
Sighted a shipment of flowers walking onto a barge, at least a hundred. Not sure who's being sent this many flowers and didn't know they were for export. Heads-up to anybody who broke someone's heart.
I believe this means a shipment of irises has left the island. That has to mean trouble for someone.

In -ENTIRELY- Unrelated News, the Revenian News Network reports...

That a Revenian Light Freighter, Unit 215623 was lost today over Tahar Joblis, all crew members managed to escape in the ship's launch, and are headed back to Revenia onboard another freighter. The Consortium has indicated its intentions to leave the freighter, which was hauling heavy industrials at the time, to its fate.

Thank you, and good night.

BUMP.

Check out the dates. This is the first thread in International Incidents ever.

And the first post of this is the very first post on II ever. It's a piece of history.

BUMP.

Check out the dates. This is the first thread in International Incidents ever.

And the first post of this is the very first post on II ever. It's a piece of history.
OOC: Actually, it wasn't the first thread in II ever; it was originally posted in the NS section and later moved to the II section when the II section opened a few months later. It's probably the oldest one. Expect more updates on the space fleet for the space age version of Tahar Joblis soon, I expect IC events to bring about some major revelations of Tahar Joblissan fleet strength and composition.

I see. Well it's still pretty historic.