NationStates Jolt Archive

I spent a bit of time on another forum recently. It's a German forum, linked to one of the bigger newspapers/magazines there, and I mostly did it because I discovered that I start forgetting my German.
Now, as was to be expected, the posters there are quite unlike the ones on here. They tend to be a bit older on average, and a good bit less international.

What quite shocked me though was the quite obvious sexist behaviour of a good deal of posters on there ... from being talked down to for letting on the I am female, in the worst 1950s style, to outright rants about how women ought to be made to go back to just being housewifes as this would create jobs and to blaming women for not having enough children any more, it was all there. And not just from one poster, either.
Now, the magazine in question isn't exactly working-class, on the contrary. So I couldn't for the life of me understand how so many of the posters there would feel so threatened by women.... can anybody maybe explain this one to me?
I've never encountered such views or such behaviour in real life, as far as I can remember. Do you think it might be a generation thing?

Terrified.

Probably a generational thing, yeah. If you didn't grow up with equality, you might never get used to it.

Edit: Also people who think we're not having enough babies irritate me irrationally. Well, a little rationally, I guess.

i'm scared of laws relating to personal relationships, emotional attachments, and intimacy.
and especially the kind of idiots who come up with such laws to dictate how others have to live.

yes this answer directly pertains to the question.

i'm also a bit paranoid about humans in general. though not about female humans any more then male humans. possibly a bit less. though both are potentially extremely dangerous.

I'm not sure I'm qualified to answer as I was raised in a house where I was the only male. However, I am quite shocked by the attitudes towards women amongst my own generation. Usually how guys might treat their girlfriend.

I'm not sure I'm qualified to answer as I was raised in a house where I was the only male. However, I am quite shocked by the attitudes towards women amongst my own generation. Usually how guys might treat their girlfriend.

It's true. Some guys just deserve a good neck-punch.

This thread needs a poll.

Also what does the question have to do with the content of the OP?

No I'm not scared of women well except when they pull their tasers out of their hadbags.

Oh and as for the question in the OP; More than likely a generational thing.

even my dad (very nearly 60) displays some quite sexist opinions sometimes, and he's not at all the type i would think would be sexist. its not out-and-out sexism, just little things in his attitude sometimes, and i'm sure its because it was how he was raised. so its probably a generational thing.

i don't know about you Cabra (or other Germans on here) but my mum, who is German, says she thinks Germany is a little more male-dominated and old-fashioned (traditional) in that way than the UK. i don't know myself, just that's what she says

as for being scared of women, i am sometimes - i often get tongue tied when i find a lady attractive lol. but other than that, i wouldn't say i was scared of women

Also what does the question have to do with the content of the OP?

I think it is suggesting that people who prefer 'traditional' gender roles are necessarily afraid of women's potential. A bit of a generalization... but I could see it as being somewhat accurate.

Now, the magazine in question isn't exactly working-class, on the contrary. So I couldn't for the life of me understand how so many of the posters there would feel so threatened by women.... can anybody maybe explain this one to me?

It's just that people are scared by change. They used to think of women as of sort of Untermenschen. Now they discover that they can have a woman as boss at work, a woman as professor at the university, a woman as federal chancellor. They discover that women are their equals, and they feel threatened, because they fear the competition.

It's nowhere different from people who are scared by immigrants.

The gods themselves... :rolleyes:

It's true. Some guys just deserve a good neck-punch.To be fair the last person I know to have treated their partner poorly was female. She broke up with her boyfriend of 4 years saying she wanted to what it was like to be single (fair enough), she later tells him that she still loves him and that she might consider getting back together with him in 3-4 months. Telling him to put his life on hold while she goes and fucks about with anyone she feels like just isn't on. So my job has been to cheer up my friend whilst trying to get him to realise he's being treated poorly, but without slagging off his ex who he's still deeply in love with.

I spent a bit of time on another forum recently. It's a German forum, linked to one of the bigger newspapers/magazines there, and I mostly did it because I discovered that I start forgetting my German.
Now, as was to be expected, the posters there are quite unlike the ones on here. They tend to be a bit older on average, and a good bit less international.

What quite shocked me though was the quite obvious sexist behaviour of a good deal of posters on there ... from being talked down to for letting on the I am female, in the worst 1950s style, to outright rants about how women ought to be made to go back to just being housewifes as this would create jobs and to blaming women for not having enough children any more, it was all there. And not just from one poster, either.
Now, the magazine in question isn't exactly working-class, on the contrary. So I couldn't for the life of me understand how so many of the posters there would feel so threatened by women.... can anybody maybe explain this one to me?
I've never encountered such views or such behaviour in real life, as far as I can remember. Do you think it might be a generation thing?

One thing you have to remember is that in the first world populations are on the decrease. Now this is a huge phenomenon in Western Europe esp Italy who is in a race with Japan and I think South Korea is third, to see who's population can shrink faster because fewer people are having kids.

I've never encountered such views or such behaviour in real life, as far as I can remember. Do you think it might be a generation thing?

I think it might be an internet thing, as such things tend to be. :tongue:

One thing you have to remember is that in the first world populations are on the decrease. Now this is a huge phenomenon in Western Europe esp Italy who is in a race with Japan and I think South Korea is third, to see who's population can shrink faster because fewer people are having kids. Also Germans (in Germany) are inherently racist, ie you cant become a German citizen except by having enough German blood in your body. So its not like the United States where you gain automatic citizenship by being born there.

lol what


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_citizenship#Naturalisation_as_a_German_citizen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_citizenship#Naturalisation_as_a_German_citizen)

Probably a generational thing, yeah. If you didn't grow up with equality, you might never get used to it.



I'm sort of hoping that's the case, because that means this sort of sentiment will more or less die out soon enough.
The whole thing did remind me of my mother who is absolutely convinced that a marriage in which she is better educated and/or earns more money than him is bound to fail right from the start.
To her mind, it's inconceivable that a man could accept a wife that "outranks" him...

I always found that odd, given that I earn the same as my BF, and have a better education than him, yet our relationship works just fine...

To be fair the last person I know to have treated their partner poorly was female. She broke up with her boyfriend of 4 years saying she wanted to what it was like to be single (fair enough), she later tells him that she still loves him and that she might consider getting back together with him in 3-4 months. Telling him to put his life on hold while she goes and fucks about with anyone she feels like just isn't on. So my job has been to cheer up my friend whilst trying to get him to realise he's being treated poorly, but without slagging off his ex who he's still deeply in love with.

He also deserves a neck-punch. Though not for mistreatment.

I think it is suggesting that people who prefer 'traditional' gender roles are necessarily afraid of women's potential. A bit of a generalization... but I could see it as being somewhat accurate.

It's a bit of an interpretation on my part, but I think most forms of hatred, especially when directed against whole groups of people rather than individuals is essntially based in fear and insecurity, yes.

even my dad (very nearly 60) displays some quite sexist opinions sometimes, and he's not at all the type i would think would be sexist. its not out-and-out sexism, just little things in his attitude sometimes, and i'm sure its because it was how he was raised. so its probably a generational thing.

i don't know about you Cabra (or other Germans on here) but my mum, who is German, says she thinks Germany is a little more male-dominated and old-fashioned (traditional) in that way than the UK. i don't know myself, just that's what she says

as for being scared of women, i am sometimes - i often get tongue tied when i find a lady attractive lol. but other than that, i wouldn't say i was scared of women

She might well be right there, I do get the same sort of feeling over here in Ireland.
The paradox thing about it all is that Germany has tons of laws geared to enable women, and to promote equality (such as paternity leave as well as maternity leave and the like), yet the society is distinctly more male dominated I feel.

One thing you have to remember is that in the first world populations are on the decrease. Now this is a huge phenomenon in Western Europe esp Italy who is in a race with Japan and I think South Korea is third, to see who's population can shrink faster because fewer people are having kids. Also Germans (in Germany) are inherently racist, ie you cant become a German citizen except by having enough German blood in your body. So its not like the United States where you gain automatic citizenship by being born there.

Err... huh??? :confused:

It's a bit of an interpretation on my part, but I think most forms of hatred, especially when directed against whole groups of people rather than individuals is essntially based in fear and insecurity, yes.

Is it even hatred of women really? Or just people being set in their ways? I tend to think that women are definately more domestic. Then again, my wife is currently working, as well as attending university to further her career.

Is it even hatred of women really? Or just people being set in their ways? I tend to think that women are definately more domestic. Then again, my wife is currently working, as well as attending university to further her career.

It wasn't just ideas like that one, though. Those are just, well, stereotypes with more or less base in reality. Yes, the traditional role for women is more domestic, and a lot of women tend to still follow it.
What I'm talking about is more of the "The state shouldn't waste money on educating women. All they'll do is find themselves a rich husband, and then they'll never do a days work in their lives anyway!" kind of statement...

It wasn't just ideas like that one, though. Those are just, well, stereotypes with more or less base in reality. Yes, the traditional role for women is more domestic, and a lot of women tend to still follow it.
What I'm talking about is more of the "The state shouldn't waste money on educating women. All they'll do is find themselves a rich husband, and then they'll never do a days work in their lives anyway!" kind of statement...

I see.

Makes sense to me. :tongue:

It might be a German thing. People over here, especially people around my age aren't sexist. At least not in the "lol wimminz cant haz jobz they shood maik baybeez" way. More in a sort of sexually inappropriate way.

Are you scared of women?

Only the real hot ones.

It might be a German thing. People over here, especially people around my age aren't sexist. At least not in the "lol wimminz cant haz jobz they shood maik baybeez" way. More in a sort of sexually inappropriate way.

I think it might even be a German generational thing...
See, the thing is, Germany had a massive feminist movement, tied in with what today is referred to as the "68ers". That whole movement is in great parts responsible for the fact that the German state worked up the guilt of the Nazi era (which before was just one big silence in the history books), it gave birth to the environment movement and the green party, it fought for different models of raising children, different lifestyles, etc.. and for women's rights.
"Women and men are equal" is actually a paragraph in the Grundgesetz, the German constitution.

So, given all this history, I find it staggering that women effectively are more easliy accepted as equals here in Ireland of all places than in Germany...

To be fair the last person I know to have treated their partner poorly was female. She broke up with her boyfriend of 4 years saying she wanted to what it was like to be single (fair enough), she later tells him that she still loves him and that she might consider getting back together with him in 3-4 months. Telling him to put his life on hold while she goes and fucks about with anyone she feels like just isn't on. So my job has been to cheer up my friend whilst trying to get him to realise he's being treated poorly, but without slagging off his ex who he's still deeply in love with.

I think the moral of that particular story is that people can really suck when it comes to relationships, regardless of gender. I know I've dated women who've really done my head in (and I say this another woman), it's not because of gender it's because they're people (although the specific style of suckery can depend on gender).

With regards to the OP, I think it's slowly changing - I think it's not helped by the extreme feminists who may paint women as superior or cry sexism at anything, nor is it helped by mysoginistic bastards who view any women's advancement as entirely due to affirmative action or political correctness generated legislation. Ideally we all need to realise that men and women are different in some ways, very similar in others and above all equal in their potential however they may choose to realise that.

I'm not scared of women in the slightest, mostly because I have no reason to be. While I think that the 'keep 'em barefoot and pregnant' school of thought is both ridiculous and unachievable, I tend to use a form of chivalry(open doors, pull out chairs, take off your hat)that some see as not much different.

I'm not scared of women in the slightest, mostly because I have no reason to be. While I think that the 'keep 'em barefoot and pregnant' school of thought is both ridiculous and unachievable, I tend to use a form of chivalry(open doors, pull out chairs, take off your hat)that some see as not much different.

How so? I do that for everybody, after all. Well, apart from the hat thing, cause I don't wear them.

Only the ones with a driving license :)

Nope.

How so? I do that for everybody, after all. Well, apart from the hat thing, cause I don't wear them.

Why, because polite assistance is implying we think women can't do it for themselves, of course. We couldn't stand for that.

Why, because polite assistance is implying we think women can't do it for themselves, of course. We couldn't stand for that.

So me being polite to men means I think they're incapable of opening doors by themselves?
Wow... never knew I was such a man-hater... ;)

How so? I do that for everybody, after all. Well, apart from the hat thing, cause I don't wear them.

How so what? I'm not sure what you're asking. The chivalry comes from me being raised that way and seeing no real reason to change it.

How so what? I'm not sure what you're asking. The chivalry comes from me being raised that way and seeing no real reason to change it.

Well, how is it a problem holding doors open for people?
Or are you one of those guys who ONLY hold it open for women? Cause I hate those fucking impolite buggers. Men have the right to be treated politely, too!

Or are you one of those guys who ONLY hold it open for women? Cause I hate those fucking impolite buggers. Men have the right to be treated politely, too!

If a guy is following behind, I'm not going to let it slam in his face, but I'm not going to go out of my way, or make an effort like I would for a chick.

If a guy is following behind, I'm not going to let it slam in his face, but I'm not going to go out of my way, or make an effort like I would for a chick.

Then that is inherently a sexists act.

If a guy is following behind, I'm not going to let it slam in his face, but I'm not going to go out of my way, or make an effort like I would for a chick.

Right... that's not chivalry, that's plain asshatery.
Why would you treat people less polite based on their gender?

Right... that's not chivalry, that's plain asshatery. Why would you treat people less polite based on their gender?

I prefer to think of it as 'treating people more polite based on their gender.' It's a glass is half full kind of approach.

I do it because I'm a horrible person who seeks only to embiggen and exploit gender differences for my own selfish ends as I pursue my ultimate goal of cartoonish super-villiany, longing for the day when I can stand, arms akimbo, glowering at my defeated nemeses and proclaiming 'SON OF JOR-EL, KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!'

I prefer to think of it as 'treating people more polite based on their gender.' It's a glass is half full kind of approach.

I do it because I'm a horrible person who seeks only to embiggen and exploit gender differences for my own selfish ends as I pursue my ultimate goal of cartoonish super-villiany.

And the flip side to treating people more polite due to their gender is that you must therefore treat others less polite based on their gender.

It is obviouse(to me anyway) that you do not do this for malicous reasons, and that it is probably (as you claim) no more than learned behavour. Still don't make it right though huh!

I prefer to think of it as 'treating people more polite based on their gender.' It's a glass is half full kind of approach.

I do it because I'm a horrible person who seeks only to embiggen and exploit gender differences for my own selfish ends as I pursue my ultimate goal of cartoonish super-villiany.

Inequality remains inequality, no matter how you phrase it.
And treating one group of people different from another for no actual reason is impolite wherever you go.
As for that super-villainy, you've got a long way to go if all you do so far is posting about your daring rudeness on the internet... you might want to take a course or something.

Women with knives,or who look like Janet Reno..

Men have the right to be treated politely, too!

Thanks! :fluffle:

Depends on how pissed off my wife is at me at the time. ;)

I got to agree that I'm not so much sure it's hatred of women per se as much as it is hatred of change. If these guys were raised a certain way, the notion of female equality probably represents a huge shift in their views on how the world is supposed to work. Most people don't like those and tend to lash out at what they perceive as the cause of that change, particularly if said change seems to be some how lowering their own position and power.

As for that super-villainy, you've got a long way to go if all you do so far is posting about your daring rudeness on the internet... you might want to take a course or something.

And yet another person demonstrates why the Internet needs to develop a 'sarcasm font' or maybe a 'he's not serious' font.

And the flip side to treating people more polite due to their gender is that you must therefore treat others less polite based on their gender.

If there were a finite amount of politeness available to me, yeah, since there's not, not really.

Depends on how pissed off my wife is at me at the time. ;)

I got to agree that I'm not so much sure it's hatred of women per se as much as it is hatred of change. If these guys were raised a certain way, the notion of female equality probably represents a huge shift in their views on how the world is supposed to work. Most people don't like those and tend to lash out at what they perceive as the cause of that change, particularly if said change seems to be some how lowering their own position and power.

Good point, they might well resent the change the most. But their actual anger seems directed mostly at women, not so much at the laws allowing that change.
And that's the bit I felt distinctly there.... :(

Good point, they might well resent the change the most. But their actual anger seems directed mostly at women, not so much at the laws allowing that change.
And that's the bit I felt distinctly there.... :(
Change is faceless Cabra, it's hard to direct actual feelings towards something that has no form and you can't really define anyway. A group of people now... they are 'solid' enough that you can direct anger towards, but still faceless enough that you don't have to admit empathy or acknowledge that you know one and that person's actually ok.

If there were a finite amount of politeness available to me, yeah, since there's not, not really.


Huh hold on there I don't understandthis at all.

Are you telling me that you have say a set limit on the amount of times you can be polite in a day, or summit?

How can any choice of behaviour be finite in a normaly adjusted person? Are there times, for example, when rage must descend and rationality must go out of the window?

Ahh that is the "Leave it to Beaver" crowd. Yep they are out there. They long for the good old days. Somewhere along the lines they got left behind. Old fashioned and outmoded ideas.

I agree with Hein about the chivalry. I'm not really especially preferential towards women in terms of politeness, but I guess I do go a little further. It's just a custom, I suppose. Inherently sexist maybe, but in a positive way.

Ahh that is the "Leave it to Beaver" crowd. Yep they are out there. They long for the good old days. Somewhere along the lines they got left behind. Old fashioned and outmoded ideas.

Really they long for an idealised, rose-tinted, version of the good old days, one so completely divorced from reality it's kinda laughable. Unfortunately it's human nature that our memories tend to be coloured one way or another - especially memories of childhood times tend to always seem idyllic and good ol' days because we were protected from some of the more harsh realities.

Ahh that is the "Leave it to Beaver" crowd. Yep they are out there. They long for the good old days. Somewhere along the lines they got left behind. Old fashioned and outmoded ideas.

kinda like christianity... :p j/k

Really they long for an idealized, rose-tinted, version of the good old days, one so completely divorced from reality it's kinda laughable. Unfortunately it's human nature that our memories tend to be coloured one way or another - especially memories of childhood times tend to always seem idyllic and good ol' days because we were protected from some of the more harsh realities.



Oh sure. Women should be in dress and stand at the door with your brief case. They should have dinner on the table promptly at 5:00PM.

You see it with shows like Mad Men and others. Men get to be the bosses while the women are secretaries.


None of these are my thoughts I am just saying I know the type. They think women got what they wanted for the most part, to be treated as equals. Equals in this case means you are a competitor and that means they have to battle against you. They feel it is not really possible for men and women to be equals.

.....especially memories of childhood times tend to always seem idyllic and good ol' days because we were protected from some of the more harsh realities.


Huh, or the opposite way around.

I´m not scared of women, of course. What they´ve been doing to my bank account for all these years...now that´s scary.

Only you and WYTYG, Cabra :wink:

I spent a bit of time on another forum recently. It's a German forum, linked to one of the bigger newspapers/magazines there, and I mostly did it because I discovered that I start forgetting my German.
Now, as was to be expected, the posters there are quite unlike the ones on here. They tend to be a bit older on average, and a good bit less international.

What quite shocked me though was the quite obvious sexist behaviour of a good deal of posters on there ... from being talked down to for letting on the I am female, in the worst 1950s style, to outright rants about how women ought to be made to go back to just being housewifes as this would create jobs and to blaming women for not having enough children any more, it was all there. And not just from one poster, either.
Now, the magazine in question isn't exactly working-class, on the contrary. So I couldn't for the life of me understand how so many of the posters there would feel so threatened by women.... can anybody maybe explain this one to me?
I've never encountered such views or such behaviour in real life, as far as I can remember. Do you think it might be a generation thing?
It's a classic example of how Patriarchy Hurts Men, Too.

Under patriarchy, "manhood" is basically defined as "not being a woman," where "woman" refers to anything weak, uncool, silly, or stupid. This requires that men both hate and fear women who encroach on "male" areas of life, because if women start doing something then that activity immediately becomes "girly" and uncool and then Real Men can't do that activity any more. This is why women's activities need to be so highly restricted; otherwise there won't be any cool ("male") shit left!

Also, under patriarchy, masculinity is defined by the ability to protect and provide for the weaker and less capable sex. If the weaker and less capable sex is strong enough and capable enough to care for its own damn self, then of what use are men?!

A final key to remember is that patriarchy pretty much states, flat out, that men don't particularly like women and women don't particularly like men. Men are assumed to not want to marry or have serious relationships, but are incapable of doing their own chores and therefore must eventually allow themselves to be trapped by a female who will spend her life providing free domestic labor for the man. Meanwhile, women are assumed to not really enjoy sex and to view men as over-grown infants who require constant care and attention, yet women must put up with these creatures because they need financial support.

The notion that men and women might CHOOSE to be together, rather than being forced to associate out of mutual necessity, is not considered. It is thus very threatening if women become self-sufficient, because patriarchal men can't think of any reason why self-sufficient women might want to have anything to do with men. Hence, liberation of women will lead to lesbian separatism and the end of all civilization as we know it.

I spent a bit of time on another forum recently. It's a German forum, linked to one of the bigger newspapers/magazines there, and I mostly did it because I discovered that I start forgetting my German.
Now, as was to be expected, the posters there are quite unlike the ones on here. They tend to be a bit older on average, and a good bit less international.

What quite shocked me though was the quite obvious sexist behaviour of a good deal of posters on there ... from being talked down to for letting on the I am female, in the worst 1950s style, to outright rants about how women ought to be made to go back to just being housewifes as this would create jobs and to blaming women for not having enough children any more, it was all there. And not just from one poster, either.
Now, the magazine in question isn't exactly working-class, on the contrary. So I couldn't for the life of me understand how so many of the posters there would feel so threatened by women.... can anybody maybe explain this one to me?
I've never encountered such views or such behaviour in real life, as far as I can remember. Do you think it might be a generation thing?
are you sure its not just trolling? it seems to me that the most outrageous posts ive seen have been on magazine/newspaper sites.

I prefer to think of it as 'treating people more polite based on their gender.' It's a glass is half full kind of approach.
Well obviously you like to think of it that way. Sadly, it's not.

If you're too lazy or rude to hold doors for men, that's your call and nobody's going to make a national case out of it. Just don't bother trying to convince anybody (let alone women) that your laziness is some how extra bonus politeness. If you hold a door for a woman, you know what she's thinking? She's thinking you held a door for her, a person, a human being. If she finds out you actually held the door open for her vagina, she's not going to be impressed.

Only you and WYTYG, Cabra :wink:

What, you're not scared of Bottle and Muryavets?

are you sure its not just trolling? it seems to me that the most outrageous posts ive seen have been on magazine/newspaper sites.

Possibly, yes. I'm still fairly new to that site and can't really gauge it that well.
However, judging by the responses those guys got from other posters, they seemed to be serious... also, they had a high enough post count ;)

It's a classic example of how Patriarchy Hurts Men, Too.

Under patriarchy, "manhood" is basically defined as "not being a woman," where "woman" refers to anything weak, uncool, silly, or stupid. This requires that men both hate and fear women who encroach on "male" areas of life, because if women start doing something then that activity immediately becomes "girly" and uncool and then Real Men can't do that activity any more. This is why women's activities need to be so highly restricted; otherwise there won't be any cool ("male") shit left!

Also, under patriarchy, masculinity is defined by the ability to protect and provide for the weaker and less capable sex. If the weaker and less capable sex is strong enough and capable enough to care for its own damn self, then of what use are men?!

A final key to remember is that patriarchy pretty much states, flat out, that men don't particularly like women and women don't particularly like men. Men are assumed to not want to marry or have serious relationships, but are incapable of doing their own chores and therefore must eventually allow themselves to be trapped by a female who will spend her life providing free domestic labor for the man. Meanwhile, women are assumed to not really enjoy sex and to view men as over-grown infants who require constant care and attention, yet women must put up with these creatures because they need financial support.

The notion that men and women might CHOOSE to be together, rather than being forced to associate out of mutual necessity, is not considered. It is thus very threatening if women become self-sufficient, because patriarchal men can't think of any reason why self-sufficient women might want to have anything to do with men. Hence, liberation of women will lead to lesbian separatism and the end of all civilization as we know it.

I know... call me silly, but I had thought that much of the Western world was slowly but surely dismantling their patriarchal systems.
I know I haven't had to compete with anybody purely based on gender for much of my life.
Now I start thinking maybe there's some sort of backlash going on in some countries?

What, you're not scared of Bottle and Muryavets? I've not read enough of Muryavets, but Bottle? If I had to stop posting, and could only endorse the views of one other poster as being nearest my own (although always more eloquently expressed than I could hope to) it would be Bottle. Seriously, Bottle is all that is good and right about NSG.

It's a classic example of how Patriarchy Hurts Men, Too.

Under patriarchy, "manhood" is basically defined as "not being a woman," where "woman" refers to anything weak, uncool, silly, or stupid. This requires that men both hate and fear women who encroach on "male" areas of life, because if women start doing something then that activity immediately becomes "girly" and uncool and then Real Men can't do that activity any more. This is why women's activities need to be so highly restricted; otherwise there won't be any cool ("male") shit left!

Also, under patriarchy, masculinity is defined by the ability to protect and provide for the weaker and less capable sex. If the weaker and less capable sex is strong enough and capable enough to care for its own damn self, then of what use are men?!

A final key to remember is that patriarchy pretty much states, flat out, that men don't particularly like women and women don't particularly like men. Men are assumed to not want to marry or have serious relationships, but are incapable of doing their own chores and therefore must eventually allow themselves to be trapped by a female who will spend her life providing free domestic labor for the man. Meanwhile, women are assumed to not really enjoy sex and to view men as over-grown infants who require constant care and attention, yet women must put up with these creatures because they need financial support.

The notion that men and women might CHOOSE to be together, rather than being forced to associate out of mutual necessity, is not considered. It is thus very threatening if women become self-sufficient, because patriarchal men can't think of any reason why self-sufficient women might want to have anything to do with men. Hence, liberation of women will lead to lesbian separatism and the end of all civilization as we know it.

QFT. In many ways I think part of the issue currently is that we have a massive move of women into men's sphere's of influence but the move the other way is still seen as wrong - ie men doing what are traditionally seen as feminine jobs are seen as unmasculine, weak or whatever (eg male nurses, air stewards, secretaries, teachers, nannies etc)...

As my mom always says, blokes missed a trick during the 60s of not insisting to be able to wear more female clothing and do 'women's' jobs at the same time that women were insisting they could wear male clothes and do 'men's' jobs.

Clearly this stems from the assumption that traditionally feminine jobs are somehow worth less and are thus less desirable - I think we need to address that issue as much as anything to help gender equality.

I've not read enough of Muryavets, but Bottle? If I had to stop posting, and could only endorse the views of one other poster as being nearest my own (although always more eloquently expressed than I could hope to) it would be Bottle. Seriously, Bottle is all that is good and right about NSG.

Your flattery pleases us. In our mercy, we have decided that on the Day Of Arising you shall be among the first to be eaten.

I think it might even be a German generational thing...
See, the thing is, Germany had a massive feminist movement, tied in with what today is referred to as the "68ers". That whole movement is in great parts responsible for the fact that the German state worked up the guilt of the Nazi era (which before was just one big silence in the history books), it gave birth to the environment movement and the green party, it fought for different models of raising children, different lifestyles, etc.. and for women's rights.
"Women and men are equal" is actually a paragraph in the Grundgesetz, the German constitution.

So, given all this history, I find it staggering that women effectively are more easliy accepted as equals here in Ireland of all places than in Germany...

I think that is due to how changes are made. I am a strong believer of allowing nations and cultures to take their course a little more naturally than passing things as soon as it become politically possible to do so- I think it creates a better environment in the long run, and will prevent the "X person is only here because they are *insert protected group here*". But I also think the amount of laws etc. that need to be enacted to achieve equality may be indicative of the strength of opinion against it, so its hard to say one way or the other.

Your flattery pleases us. In our mercy, we have decided that on the Day Of Arising you shall be among the first to be eaten.
Thank you! Why choose the lesser evil?

I've not read enough of Muryavets, but Bottle? If I had to stop posting, and could only endorse the views of one other poster as being nearest my own (although always more eloquently expressed than I could hope to) it would be Bottle. Seriously, Bottle is all that is good and right about NSG.

Now you've got me wondering what that says about you being scared of me...

Your flattery pleases us. In our mercy, we have decided that on the Day Of Arising you shall be among the first to be eaten.

Spread the word to all your friends - you may not be saved but you can be eaten first! (http://rubbersuitstudios.com/ptcct.htm)

:hail::hail::hail:Bottle fhtagn, look busy

Now you've got me wondering what that says about you being scared of me...
Ut oh, now it's got me wondering, too . . . see, this is why I phear you!

I know... call me silly, but I had thought that much of the Western world was slowly but surely dismantling their patriarchal systems.

You're only half silly. Yes, we're slowly dismantling those systems, but no, we're nowhere close to being done. ;)

Seriously though, I know the feeling. Growing up I had the impression that the feminist war had been won by my mother's generation. Imagine my disappointment.


I know I haven't had to compete with anybody purely based on gender for much of my life.
Now I start thinking maybe there's some sort of backlash going on in some countries?
I don't know if I'd even call it "backlash." There is constant, pervasive opposition to feminism pretty much all the time, it's just a matter of whether you happen to run afoul of it personally. Just look at the fact that people (even in this thread) don't know what "feminism" actually is; they think man-hating or female superiority are part of feminism for crying out loud. The average person can't even correctly DEFINE feminism, let alone openly claim that they support it.

But it is absolutely no surprise that some women claim to believe that sexism is dead. It's the common mistake of thinking that one's personal experiences are typical of all people. For example, I'm a white cisgender middle-class educated woman who has always lived in liberal cities. I don't encounter the kind of routine sexism that would be found in other places, or that would be levied against other women in my place, and when I do encounter sexism I'm almost always in a position of power where I can tell said sexism to go fuck itself. But I know that my personal experiences are not typical; even though I'm the face of the "majority" in my country, in reality I am part of a privileged minority among women.

Women of the 21s century do scare me. They're all uppity. It bothers me that women can be lawyers, doctors, politicians...because clearly their wombs will make all the decisions. A woman who has not yet procreated has a very ambitious womb, and this will drive her to take very unfeminine, aggressive stances on almost everything. Why, you might go to a female doctor for a bunion and end up with two less legs than you had before! Luckily, the wombs of women who have procreated are much lazier. Somehow these women are more drained of their aggressiveness, as is evinced by the bags under their eyes and the constant 'sick days' they take off. I've heard some talk about 'taking care of children' being the cause but that's foolishness. Everyone knows that women come alive in the presence of children, their breasts become more pronounced, their hips wider, and their smiles more vacuous. The natural state all women should aspire to.

Women of the 21s century do scare me. They're all uppity. It bothers me that women can be lawyers, doctors, politicians...because clearly their wombs will make all the decisions. A woman who has not yet procreated has a very ambitious womb, and this will drive her to take very unfeminine, aggressive stances on almost everything. Why, you might go to a female doctor for a bunion and end up with two less legs than you had before! Luckily, the wombs of women who have procreated are much lazier. Somehow these women are more drained of their aggressiveness, as is evinced by the bags under their eyes and the constant 'sick days' they take off. I've heard some talk about 'taking care of children' being the cause but that's foolishness. Everyone knows that women come alive in the presence of children, their breasts become more pronounced, their hips wider, and their smiles more vacuous. The natural state all women should aspire to.

*BZZTCrack* Sorry, I think my sarcasm meter just broke there :D

Yes. We're crazy. But we smell awesome and we're sosoft. It's a tricky trade-off.

Yes. We're crazy. But we smell awesome and we're sosoft. It's a tricky trade-off.

Not really. We can put up with the crazyness, coz the softness makes up for a lot!:D

Only if they have sharp, pointy teeth and are plotting on eating me for dinner.

Otherwise, I'm cool. I mean, I grew up in a household dominated by strong women--why on Earth would I be scared of them now? My ideal partner would be a successful, professional woman--not some dinkbat "housewife".

Only if they have sharp, pointy teeth and are plotting on eating me for dinner.

Otherwise, I'm cool. I mean, I grew up in a household dominated by strong women--why on Earth would I be scared of them now? My ideal partner would be a successful, professional woman--not some dinkbat "housewife".

I don't know about anyone else, but personally I find strong women a real turn on. :cool:

No, I want women to considered the same as men as much as possible.

What quite shocked me though was the quite obvious sexist behaviour of a good deal of posters on there ... from being talked down to for letting on the I am female, in the worst 1950s style, to outright rants about how women ought to be made to go back to just being housewifes as this would create jobs and to blaming women for not having enough children any more, it was all there. And not just from one poster, either.I've always wondered... why piss off the person that 1) Prepares [the males] food, 2) has access to all [the male] clothing, 3) has the opportunity to change the house locks because they're there when [the male] is not, 4) has more opportunities to sabotage [the male] than vice versa and can royally screw you over with just a little thought and planning?
Now, the magazine in question isn't exactly working-class, on the contrary. So I couldn't for the life of me understand how so many of the posters there would feel so threatened by women.... can anybody maybe explain this one to me? Some men don't like being made to feel inferior. and you know any woman can do that with a look. :p
I've never encountered such views or such behaviour in real life, as far as I can remember. Do you think it might be a generation thing?might be... or it might be a 'class' thing. as in those people have none?

am I scared of women? No, of course not. How silly.

I don't know about anyone else, but personally I find strong women a real turn on. :cool:

Indeed, as do I. And I'm not surprised that my short relationships are with girls who want me to make all of the damn decisions, while my longest was with a girl who was fiercely independent.

I'm not scared, but I find it awkward at times to talk to women.


from being talked down to for letting on the I am female, in the worst 1950s style, to outright rants about how women ought to be made to go back to just being housewifes

Sexist views like that are idiotic. I was taught manners and sense so I don't have those views.

I've not read enough of Muryavets, but Bottle? If I had to stop posting, and could only endorse the views of one other poster as being nearest my own (although always more eloquently expressed than I could hope to) it would be Bottle. Seriously, Bottle is all that is good and right about NSG.

Seconded.

I've always wondered... why piss off the person that 1) Prepares [the males] food, 2) has access to all [the male] clothing, 3) has the opportunity to change the house locks because they're there when [the male] is not, 4) has more opportunities to sabotage [the male] than vice versa and can royally screw you over with just a little thought and planning?

Because in the "utopia" of the 1950's you could beat the crap out of your wife and rape her without the majority of people thinking it was a particularly bad thing.
Seconded.

Just don't make her angry. You would like her when she's angry.

Actually, that was just silly. Who the hell wouldn't like Bottle when she's angry? It's a beautiful thing to watch.

Otherwise, I'm cool. I mean, I grew up in a household dominated by strong women--why on Earth would I be scared of them now? My ideal partner would be a successful, professional woman--not some dinkbat "housewife".

Because only women who are successful professionals are "strong" and "independent" and women who make other choices are by definition dinkbats?

That's totally in line with equality. :rolleyes:

Everyone knows that women come alive in the presence of children, their breasts become more pronounced. The natural state all women should aspire to.

I can get behind this... :p

Seriously though I have never understood guys being 'afraid' of women who are capable of handling, well life... :confused:

I spent a bit of time on another forum recently. It's a German forum, linked to one of the bigger newspapers/magazines there, and I mostly did it because I discovered that I start forgetting my German.
Now, as was to be expected, the posters there are quite unlike the ones on here. They tend to be a bit older on average, and a good bit less international.

What quite shocked me though was the quite obvious sexist behaviour of a good deal of posters on there ... from being talked down to for letting on the I am female, in the worst 1950s style, to outright rants about how women ought to be made to go back to just being housewifes as this would create jobs and to blaming women for not having enough children any more, it was all there. And not just from one poster, either.
Now, the magazine in question isn't exactly working-class, on the contrary. So I couldn't for the life of me understand how so many of the posters there would feel so threatened by women.... can anybody maybe explain this one to me?
I've never encountered such views or such behaviour in real life, as far as I can remember. Do you think it might be a generation thing?
Because they might be showing signs of sexism, that somehow makes them afraid of women?

What did the German women on the thread have to say in regards to those "sexist" comments?

As far as the title of this thread is concerned, did you mean "Are you afraid of women"?

I know a girl in my class who belives it the women job to do what the male tell hers to do and to clean up after a guy or let them take your job if they need it. I think I was the only guy/person banging my head on the desk.


Those on the otherhand I also hold open doors for women and gals all the time and also older people(read above 25) or if their right behind me as I walk through a door. The reason why most guys don't go out of the way to hold open a door for another guy is because the guy might consider you gay or something. It got noting to do with us thinking women can open a bleeding door for god sakes. I think that just you women being overly defensive.

And if you guys believe in women rights so much. Where the North American movement for better women rights in the Middle East?

Only of their koodies.

Only of their koodies.
You mean "cooties"? :)

I know a girl in my class who belives it the women job to do what the male tell hers to do and to clean up after a guy or let them take your job if they need it. I think I was the only guy/person banging my head on the desk.


Those on the otherhand I also hold open doors for women and gals all the time and also older people(read above 25) or if their right behind me as I walk through a door. The reason why most guys don't go out of the way to hold open a door for another guy is because the guy might consider you gay or something. It got noting to do with us thinking women can open a bleeding door for god sakes. I think that just you women being overly defensive.

And if you guys believe in women rights so much. Where the North American movement for better women rights in the Middle East?

what are you, 12?

what are you, 12?

16. Have a huge problem with it or did you forget that stupid people can make it pass their teen years, so using age makes you look pretty immature.

16. Have a huge problem with it or did you forget that stupid people can make it pass their teen years, so using age makes you look pretty immature.

Holding open doors for males makes make one seem homosexual?

http://smilies.vidahost.com/otn/laughing/yelrotflmao.gif

16. Have a huge problem with it or did you forget that stupid people can make it pass their teen years, so using age makes you look pretty immature.

yes, quite, age is never a good indicator of anything. Which is why we allow 13 year olds to vote, drive, marry, buy tobacco, and fight in wars.

Oh, wait....

And frankly, you should consider it a "good thing" that my immediate presumption was that you were a kid, given your ideas like "I'm afraid someone would think I'm gay if I held the door open for another man" and classifying 25 as "old".

If you were older and still held those views I'd be rather distressed. At least, being young, you have a chance to grow out of it.

Holding open doors for males makes make one seem homosexual?

http://smilies.vidahost.com/otn/laughing/yelrotflmao.gif

Only homosexuals are polite and considerate. Duh.

Only homosexuals are polite and considerate. Duh.

and, lest we forget, fabulous

Those on the otherhand I also hold open doors for women and gals all the time and also older people(read above 25) or if their right behind me as I walk through a door. The reason why most guys don't go out of the way to hold open a door for another guy is because the guy might consider you gay or something. It got noting to do with us thinking women can open a bleeding door for god sakes. I think that just you women being overly defensive.

And if you guys believe in women rights so much. Where the North American movement for better women rights in the Middle East?

*blinks*

yes, quite, age is never a good indicator of anything. Which is why we allow 13 year olds to vote, drive, marry, buy tobacco, and fight in wars.

Oh, wait....

And frankly, you should consider it a "good thing" that my immediate presumption was that you were a kid, given your ideas like "I'm afraid someone would think I'm gay if I held the door open for another man" and classifying 25 as "old".

If you were older and still held those views I'd be rather distressed. At least, being young, you have a chance to grow out of it.
On behalf of 25-year-old geezers everywhere, I approve of this message.

Holding open doors for males makes make one seem homosexual?

http://smilies.vidahost.com/otn/laughing/yelrotflmao.gif

I guess you forgotten what it like to be in high school didn't you? Where 96% of the male population is full of immature idoits and if you act smart,mature,and don't feel a need to chase or drool over every hot women that smiles at you wants to go out with you. You must be gay. You don't have to worry about gay guys hitting on you or immature people talking behind your back and honestly having the girls in your class think your gay just because you don't jump when they say jump. That hey...your mature. So excause me if for a little peace and quiet in my high school I don't run to the nearest door to open it for when a guy about to walk through it. In second thought I usually don't hold the door open for nearly anyone in school as I usually shut the door on the females as a bit of joking around.

So yeah..... I don't care what other people think about me. But I know when it just smarter to not do something.

i dont like extremely independent women ust like i dont like women at the opposite end,i like to feel needed but like to know that ,if needed,she's there to support me aswell,one person relyin on the other too much doesnt tend to work and,in my opinion,isnt healthy

sexist views like those that you experienced are only that-views,ignore them seen as the people who posted them will never be part of your life and as a rule 95% of ''extreme views'' expressed on the net will not be spoken by those people and a percentage of those views are either people playin devils advocate to get a debate going or are trying to stir shi*,at any rate sexism is more of an idea now than a practice-maybe im wrong but ,to me,it just isnt a big issue anymore

I guess you forgotten what it like to be in high school didn't you? Where 96% of the male population is full of immature idoits and if you act smart,mature,and don't feel a need to chase or drool over every hot women that smiles at you wants to go out with you. You must be gay. You don't have to worry about gay guys hitting on you or immature people talking behind your back and honestly having the girls in your class think your gay just because you don't jump when they say jump. That hey...your mature. So excause me if for a little peace and quiet in my high school I don't run to the nearest door to open it for when a guy about to walk through it. In second thought I usually don't hold the door open for nearly anyone in school as I usually shut the door on the females as a bit of joking around.

I love when Im told that I 'just dont get it' by high schoolers (my 16 year old sister and her friends do it all the time) when Im 21 and it wasnt like I was just there 3 years ago or anything.

So yeah..... I don't care what other people think about me.
You actually quite clearly do.

I guess you forgotten what it like to be in high school didn't you? Where 96% of the male population is full of immature idoits and if you act smart,mature,and don't feel a need to chase or drool over every hot women that smiles at you wants to go out with you. You must be gay. You don't have to worry about gay guys hitting on you or immature people talking behind your back and honestly having the girls in your class think your gay just because you don't jump when they say jump. That hey...your mature. So excause me if for a little peace and quiet in my high school I don't run to the nearest door to open it for when a guy about to walk through it. In second thought I usually don't hold the door open for nearly anyone in school as I usually shut the door on the females as a bit of joking around.
Um.....maybe you'll grow out of it.

So yeah..... I don't care what other people think about me.
It really sounds like you do.

yes, quite, age is never a good indicator of anything. Which is why we allow 13 year olds to vote, drive, marry, buy tobacco, and fight in wars.

Oh, wait.....

Its must also be why once your 18 you drink a magic potion that makes your mature and lets to do everything the smart safe way. Right..?


And frankly, you should consider it a "good thing" that my immediate presumption was that you were a kid, given your ideas like "I'm afraid someone would think I'm gay if I held the door open for another man" and classifying 25 as "old".

If you were older and still held those views I'd be rather distressed. At least, being young, you have a chance to grow out of it.


Have a chance to grow out of it? Sorry if my poor word choice ment everybody decided to jump on my back. As for the 25 is old comment. I was thinking of elderly people but then I was like nah, I hold the door open for everybody really.

Its must also be why once your 18 you drink a magic potion that makes your mature and lets to do everything the smart safe way. Right..?
Who told you that?
Have a chance to grow out of it? Sorry if my poor word choice ment everybody decided to jump on my back. As for the 25 is old comment. I was thinking of elderly people but then I was like nah, I hold the door open for everybody really.
Except men apperantly. Because they might think youre gay and drag you into their Fritzl esc dungeon for buttrape.

Um.....maybe you'll grow out of it.


It really sounds like you do.

Yeah I figured that would be the comment I would get. I never do care. Its just I hate when people jump down my back for my poor word choice. Which they have every right to do as this is NSG. :p

I love when Im told that I 'just dont get it' by high schoolers (my 16 year old sister and her friends do it all the time) when Im 21 and it wasnt like I was just there 3 years ago or anything.

Yeah because that why the post was address to you and to you only right?

Who told you that?

Except men apperantly. Because they might think youre gay and drag you into their Fritzl esc dungeon for buttrape.

Even those my scarasm meter isn't broken. I think you might want to check yours...

Its must also be why once your 18 you drink a magic potion that makes your mature and lets to do everything the smart safe way. Right..?

I am 19. No offense, but I believe I am a good deal more mature than you are.

I guess you forgotten what it like to be in high school didn't you? Where 96% of the male population is full of immature idoits and if you act smart,mature,and don't feel a need to chase or drool over every hot women that smiles at you wants to go out with you. You must be gay. You don't have to worry about gay guys hitting on you or immature people talking behind your back and honestly having the girls in your class think your gay just because you don't jump when they say jump. That hey...your mature. So excause me if for a little peace and quiet in my high school I don't run to the nearest door to open it for when a guy about to walk through it. In second thought I usually don't hold the door open for nearly anyone in school as I usually shut the door on the females as a bit of joking around.

So yeah..... I don't care what other people think about me. But I know when it just smarter to not do something.
Shorter teen boy:

High school is such a serious thing,
These problems matter!

I am 19. No offense, but I believe I am a good deal more mature than you are.

None taken and then believe that. I horrible at first impressions anyway. :p

Because in the "utopia" of the 1950's you could beat the crap out of your wife and rape her without the majority of people thinking it was a particularly bad thing.

hmmm... does the name 'bobbitt' mean anything to you? :tongue:

again, if you have a person in that posistion (being the cook, cleaner and generally 'stay at home' person...) would you really want to piss that person off?

Shorter teen boy:

High school is such a serious thing,
These problems matter!

someone needs to make a "High School: Srs Business" demotivator.

None taken and then believe that.

I will, since it does not bother me if someone mistakes my sexual preference.

I horrible at first impressions anyway. :p

I will wait for a second....

Yeah I figured that would be the comment I would get. I never do care. Its just I hate when people jump down my back for my poor word choice. Which they have every right to do as this is NSG. :p
So, make better word choices and tell us what you really mean.

I went through most of high school with people thinking I was a lesbian based on:

* I wasn't a cheerleader
* I didn't wear dresses
* I didn't fawn over the football players

Didn't really affect me, I went to high school with idiots, I didn't really want to date any of them.

I did date in high school, just nobody at my school.

Shorter teen boy:

High school is such a serious thing,
These problems matter!

Don't be stupid. I know that. High school means noting but your grades and I don't even care about that. Now are you guys none ripping at me or ae you all waiting for the other sharks to smell the blood in the water and come swimming?

So, make better word choices and tell us what you really mean.

I went through most of high school with people thinking I was a lesbian based on:

* I wasn't a cheerleader
* I didn't wear dresses
* I didn't fawn over the football players

Didn't really affect me, I went to high school with idiots, I didn't really want to date any of them.

I did date in high school, just nobody at my school.

What I really ment was that most guys who hold doors open for women but not men probably don't do it because base on how they were raise they don't view that holding doors for men is the manly thing for men to do. While rushing to the women side to hold the door open is.

Which makes me take back my view eariler in the thread that women were being to defensive about that being sexist shown by males to womens. As such I fighter4u, proimse to open the door for all human beings from now on..unless their quakers of course. Their used to the door being slammed in their face.

What I really ment was that most guys who hold doors open for women but not men probably don't do it because base on how they were raise they don't view that holding doors for men is the manly thing for men to do. While rushing to the women side to hold the door open is.

Which makes me take back my view eariler in the thread that women were being to defensive about that being sexist shown by males to womens. As such I fighter4u, proimse to open the door for all human beings from now on..unless their quakers of course. Their used to the door being slammed in their face.

I hold the door open for anyone.

What I really ment was that most guys who hold doors open for women but not men probably don't do it because base on how they were raise they don't view that holding doors for men is the manly thing for men to do. While rushing to the women side to hold the door open is.

And you don't think that's a fundamentally sexist attitude because.......?

I hold the door open for anyone.

Lesbo....

And you don't think that's a fundamentally sexist attitude because.......?

You mean women arent all danty little flowers who need a big strong man around to help them basically function?

You mean women arent all danty little flowers who need a big strong man around to help them basically function?

No, those are liberals. :D

No, seriously though, all my life, high school and college included, if someone was behind me I held the door open for them. Age, gender, it didnt matter.

And I never once got called gay for holding the door open for one of my male peers. I dont know where this kid gets this shit from, or if hes school is especially homophobic or something, but its foreign to me.

No, those are liberals. :D

*rimshot*:p

And you don't think that's a fundamentally sexist attitude because.......?

Maybe you should read the rest of my post where I state that it is? And that through everybody jumping on me like some kind of mass orgy, I figured that out?

I guessing the magic potion didn't include better reading skills.

No, seriously though, all my life, high school and college included, if someone was behind me I held the door open for them. Age, gender, it didnt matter.

And I never once got called gay for holding the door open for one of my male peers. I dont know where this kid gets this shit from, or if hes school is especially homophobic or something, but its foreign to me.

Same here. I have always held the door open for anyone directly behind me.

Maybe you should read the rest of my post where I state that it is? And that through everybody jumping on me like some kind of mass orgy, I figured that out?

You were asking for it, Bitch. You held the door open.

I guessing the magic potion didn't include better reading skills.

Potion?

Same here. I have always held the door open for anyone directly behind me.

Fag.

Fag.

Hey, you are the one who said he never cared about being "manly", remember?

You were asking for it, Bitch. You held the door open.



Potion?

Read back a few pages to my reply to Neo Art when he asked if I was 12 and I replyed I was 16. Around their.

Maybe you should read the rest of my post where I state that it is? And that through everybody jumping on me like some kind of mass orgy, I figured that out?

I guessing the magic potion didn't include better reading skills.

Oh so it IS sexist now? Well then, perhaps you'd like to retract this statement:

It got noting to do with us thinking women can open a bleeding door for god sakes. I think that just you women being overly defensive.

Because, if you admit it's a sexist attitude, and that sexist attitudes are bad, I don't see why you'd claim that people who are insulted by it are just being "overly defensive".

See, the thing is, I do have pretty superior reading skills, which, unfortunately for you, allow me to do things like remember what I read just 10 minutes ago.

Don't be stupid. I know that. High school means noting but your grades and I don't even care about that. Now are you guys none ripping at me or ae you all waiting for the other sharks to smell the blood in the water and come swimming?

its all relative,things matter to me now at 22 that i know wont matter as much at 30 and so on
secondary school(high school as ye call it)was great craic but at the time there were things that i worried about and caused me stress but when i look back i wonder how did i even waste a second worryin on such trivial things like makin our startin team when now i wish i had enjoyd it more because i cant play anymore because of an injury

enoy school buddy,youll look back in 10 years and really wishd you made the most of it,biggest advice i can give you is try to enjoy yourslf as much as possible and if someone doesnt want to hear your opinion dont waste it on them

what was this thread about again?? :rolleyes:

Hey, you are the one who said he never cared about being "manly", remember?

*shifty eyes*

Hey, you are the one who said he never cared about being "manly", remember?*shifty eyes*
*points down to sig*
:p

Oh so it IS sexist now? Well then, perhaps you'd like to retract this statement:



Because, if you admit it's a sexist attitude, and that sexist attitudes are bad, I don't see why you'd claim that people who are insulted by it are just being "overly defensive".

See, the thing is, I do have pretty superior reading skills, which, unfortunately for you, allow me to do things like remember what I read just 10 minutes ago.

Wow...just wow. I guess when you remember things from 10 minutes ago. You end up with no room for what was said 5 minutes ago?

What I really ment was that most guys who hold doors open for women but not men probably don't do it because base on how they were raise they don't view that holding doors for men is the manly thing for men to do. While rushing to the women side to hold the door open is.

Which makes me take back my view eariler in the thread that women were being to defensive about that being sexist shown by males to womens. As such I fighter4u, proimse to open the door for all human beings from now on..unless their quakers of course. Their used to the door being slammed in their face.


Their in bold for you Neo Art.

See, I've heard that variation of the "magic potion" argument before. It's a fairly silly one that basically goes "oh, but you weren't suddenly mature on your 18th birthday, WERE YOU?"

Well no, I'm not any more mature today than I was yesterday. I doubt Poli is more mature on her birthday, today, than she was yesterday. But the great irony of that argument is this. As you age you, hopefully, come to understand that while the day to day changes little, as a general rule, even utterly abstracting the physical and hormonal changes that occur over those years, that with time comes experience. With experience comes wisdom. With wisdom comes a deeper understanding of the world, and your place in it.

So while a day changes little, except for those truly unfortunate days which can change a lot, the great irony of growing up is that widom and maturity are those things that you can never understand, until you already have them. Which is why arguments like that are deeply ironic.

If you understood, you wouldn't try to make it.

its all relative,things matter to me now at 22 that i know wont matter as much at 30 and so on
secondary school(high school as ye call it)was great craic but at the time there were things that i worried about and caused me stress but when i look back i wonder how did i even waste a second worryin on such trivial things like makin our startin team when now i wish i had enjoyd it more because i cant play anymore because of an injury

enoy school buddy,youll look back in 10 years and really wishd you made the most of it,biggest advice i can give you is try to enjoy yourslf as much as possible and if someone doesnt want to hear your opinion dont waste it on them

what was this thread about again?? :rolleyes:

About cheese. Wasn't it always about cheese? :confused:

And good advice! :)

See, I've heard that variation of the "magic potion" argument before. It's a fairly silly one that basically goes "oh, but you weren't suddenly mature on your 18th birthday, WERE YOU?"

Well no, I'm not any more mature today than I was yesterday. I doubt Poli is more mature on her birthday, today, than she was yesterday. But the great irony of that argument is this. As you age you, hopefully, come to understand that while the day to day changes little, as a general rule, even utterly abstracting the physical and hormonal changes that occur over those years, that with time comes experience. With experience comes wisdom. With wisdom comes a deeper understanding of the world, and your place in it.

So while a day changes little, except for those truly unfortunate days which can change a lot, the great irony of growing up is that widom and maturity are those things that you can never understand, until you already have them. Which is why arguments like that are deeply ironic.

If you understood, you wouldn't try to make it.


So in other words your scarasm meter is utterly and totally broken?

Beats me dude, I love women.

It would appear that this thread has drifted way off course and has transformed into bullying of a younger forum member.......sort of like I am not a sexist but it is ok for me to abuse those with less intellect. Classy :rolleyes:

It would appear that this thread has drifted way off course and has transformed into bullying of a younger forum member.......sort of like I am not a sexist but it is ok for me to abuse those with less intellect. Classy :rolleyes:

We never said he had less intellect. That's presumptuous and rude.

It would appear that this thread has drifted way off course and has transformed into bullying of a younger forum member.......sort of like I am not a sexist but it is ok for me to abuse those with less intellect. Classy :rolleyes:

THIS...IS...NSGEEEEEEEEEE!

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/240sw53swyu9.gif

It would appear that this thread has drifted way off course and has transformed into bullying of a younger forum member.......sort of like I am not a sexist but it is ok for me to abuse those with less intellect. Classy :rolleyes:

Forgetting you insulted me. I must admit that why I usually just lurk around here. So don't be surpise if they all jump on you next.

sort of like I am not a sexist but it is ok for me to abuse those with less intellect. Classy :rolleyes:

Are you calling him stupid, or us smart?

Forgetting you insulted me. I must admit that why I usually just lurk around here. So don't be surpise if they all jump on you next.

If we jump on him it will be for...you know...lying.

It would appear that this thread has drifted way off course and has transformed into bullying of a younger forum member.......sort of like I am not a sexist but it is ok for me to abuse those with less intellect. Classy :rolleyes:

I called him young, and suffering from the typical immaturity associated with such. The only one who has actually implied that he was someone with "less intellect" is you.

Forgetting you insulted me. I must admit that why I usually just lurk around here. So don't be surpise if they all jump on you next.

FWIW if I thought you were stupid I would have ignored you. Because I think you're not stupid, I question you.

If we jump on him it will be for...you know...lying.

Yes,yes I know, I know. Just like you guys jumped on me for poorly wording a post that sounded very immature.


And thanks guys for just giving me the General welcome. And not treating me like dirt like alot of people would do.

Yes,yes I know, I know. Just like you guys jumped on me for poorly wording a post that sounded very immature.


And thanks guys for just giving me the General welcome. And not treating me like dirt like alot of people would do.

It was the idea that opening doors for men is gay that made us choke on our corn flakes.

It was the idea that opening doors for men is gay that made choke on our corn flakes.

I just thought it was funny. I wasnt really trying to be mean.

It was the idea that opening doors for men is gay that made choke on our corn flakes.

Yeah I bet it did.

I spent a bit of time on another forum recently. It's a German forum, linked to one of the bigger newspapers/magazines there, and I mostly did it because I discovered that I start forgetting my German.
Now, as was to be expected, the posters there are quite unlike the ones on here. They tend to be a bit older on average, and a good bit less international.

What quite shocked me though was the quite obvious sexist behaviour of a good deal of posters on there ... from being talked down to for letting on the I am female, in the worst 1950s style, to outright rants about how women ought to be made to go back to just being housewifes as this would create jobs and to blaming women for not having enough children any more, it was all there. And not just from one poster, either.
Now, the magazine in question isn't exactly working-class, on the contrary. So I couldn't for the life of me understand how so many of the posters there would feel so threatened by women.... can anybody maybe explain this one to me?
I've never encountered such views or such behaviour in real life, as far as I can remember. Do you think it might be a generation thing?

Not having enough babies???? The world is kinda overpopulated and these guys and gals think that women should have more babies? I never heard anyone talk like that.

Why would working class people be more or less inclined to think this way? This sounds a little elitist to me.

I just thought it was funny. I wasnt really trying to be mean.

I really do not think we were being "mean". Neo Art was a tad, but that is just Neo Art's style, not any singling-out of newbies.

And I do not remember him calling anyone stupid.

... this brings up a point... I'll hold the door open for anyone nearby. I mean, I got the door open already... I'm not gonna close it if there are people nearby that needs to enter/exit...

See, the thing is, I do have pretty superior reading skills, which, unfortunately for you, allow me to do things like remember what I read just 10 minutes ago.

We never said he had less intellect. That's presumptuous and rude.
Yup.....

I really do not think we were being "mean". Neo Art was a tad, but that is just Neo Art's style, not any singling-out of newbies.

Can we please get back to talking about women?

In these tumultuous economic times, it would be immensely helpful if women would stop preventing men from accessing gainful employment. There is absolutely no need for both partners to be working. The woman, who is generally going to make less money anyway (due to being less fit for jobs which really matter) should stay home. Thus, the couple would save money they are currently shilling out for daycare/babysitting, or if they are childless they can begin planning a family. They would also save the money they are no doubt spending on the double commute, and all the fast, convenient food that became necessary when women stopped cooking healthful meals for their families. (which by the way is obviously the root cause of the obesity epidemic in North America).

Women should step aside for their male counterparts, and spend more time being thrifty and productive as the support network for their families. This is the only way we can weather the economic disaster we're facing.

Because only women who are successful professionals are "strong" and "independent" and women who make other choices are by definition dinkbats?

That's totally in line with equality. :rolleyes:

Poor spacing between me saying two totally different things. In one I was referencing the household I grew up in--a household where mi madre took years off in the middle of her career to raise young kids, but she is still a strong and intelligent woman. She returned to the career-world after we ickle chillun's were old enough to figure out how to make it home from school without dying. I have no problem with a stay-at-home mom (or dad), so long as they are contributing to the household.

The second sentence was merely my personal preference--and not intended to paint even a sliver of the stay-at-home parent segment as dinkbat--just the one's who really don't serve as parents.

Can we please get back to talking about women?

They are such attention whores.

In these tumultuous economic times, it would be immensely helpful if women would stop preventing men from accessing gainful employment. There is absolutely no need for both partners to be working. The woman, who is generally going to make less money anyway (due to being less fit for jobs which really matter) should stay home. Thus, the couple would save money they are currently shilling out for daycare/babysitting, or if they are childless they can begin planning a family. They would also save the money they are no doubt spending on the double commute, and all the fast, convenient food that became necessary when women stopped cooking healthful meals for their families. (which by the way is obviously the root cause of the obesity epidemic in North America).

Women should step aside for their male counterparts, and spend more time being thrifty and productive as the support network for their families. This is the only way we can weather the economic disaster we're facing.

Prostitution could help, though.

Forgetting you insulted me. I must admit that why I usually just lurk around here. So don't be surpise if they all jump on you next.
you shouldnt lurk so much. you fight back pretty well.

I only fear Women in large groups talking about banning alcohol.

I only fear Women in large groups talking about banning alcohol.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2008/12/I-Just-Want-Your-Kiss.jpg

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2008/12/I-Just-Want-Your-Kiss.jpg

*drinks 1/5th of vodka*

Whew! Safe!

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2008/12/I-Just-Want-Your-Kiss.jpg

I knew there was a reason we didn't let them vote.

you shouldnt lurk so much. you fight back pretty well.

Why thank you.

Now, the magazine in question isn't exactly working-class, on the contrary. So I couldn't for the life of me understand how so many of the posters there would feel so threatened by women.... can anybody maybe explain this one to me?

Why did you equate the working-class to sexist views? Just because we don't have the best-earning jobs does not mean that we all automatically hold the sexist, racist, bigoted, anti-Semetic/Islamic etc views that we are all accused of having.

If you look at history quite often working-class woman had to go out to work (in the field or in the factory) while upper/middle-class women sat around stitching cushions. It was a status symbol if you didn't. That was a long time before women started thinking about Suffragettes or feminist movements. I'm not anti-middle/upper class either before you start accusing me of that but you're opinion does seem to be a bit nulear.

These kind of opinions are not affected by how much money you earn. Granted I am a woman and it would be a bit weird for me to be afraid of other women in the way you mentioned.

...Do you think it might be a generation thing?

There are whole generations who were brought up believing these views. Some of them are not likely to give up these opinions just because its now PC. Sometimes you do come across people like Sir Allan Sugar (British, highly-successful entreprenuer well-known for his comments about how women should go back to the kitchen sink and not the boardroom) but hopefully the number of people who hold that opinion are shrinking.

*drinks 1/5th of vodka*

Whew! Safe!

*looks at pic*

can you pass me that bottle smunkee? :tongue:

You know what really doesn't make sense? Women have become disproportionately represented in post-secondary institutions. Going into unfathonable debt to become academics and glorified housewives (we all know how many women go into post-secondary JUST so they can land a wealthy husband...ah yes, the time honoured tradition of earning your MRS). Then, all this debt gets transferred to their husbands. Would it be economically prudent for you to marry a woman who owed $94,000 on a car you couldn't even drive? Women need to stop thinking that it's acceptable to enter into this sort of crushing debt without even consulting men on the subject.

Why did you equate the working-class to sexist views? Just because we don't have the best-earning jobs does not mean that we all automatically hold the sexist, racist, bigoted, anti-Semetic/Islamic etc views that we are all accused of having.


Because, typically, lower income people are more likely to hold those views (it is often accredited to a lack of education). That doesnt mean everyone in that demographic does, just that people in that demographic are more likely to.

we all know how many women go into post-secondary JUST so they can land a wealthy husband...

Wait...women still do this?


That makes me sad.:(

Would it be economically prudent for you to marry a woman who owed $94,000 on a car you couldn't even drive? Women need to stop thinking that it's acceptable to enter into this sort of crushing debt without even consulting men on the subject.

Depends on the career field. A lot of strong politicians benefit from having a Stay at home wife with an education that he can take to cocktail parties to help him talk it up with other politicians and their wives.

Depends on the career field. A lot of strong politicians benefit from having a Stay at home wife with an education that he can take to cocktail parties to help him talk it up with other politicians and their wives.

Yes but shouldn't this be a discussiong between man and woman, instead of a unilateral action on the woman's part?

Yes but shouldn't this be a discussiong between man and woman, instead of a unilateral action on the woman's part?

It is an unspoken agreement. When a girl with a masters acts like an Air and responds to the question what do you want to do with your degree with "I don't know" and twirling her hair. It is pretty obvious she is looking for a trophy wife position. Thankfully it makes them easy to avoid.

Would it be economically prudent for you to marry a woman who owed $94,000 on a car you couldn't even drive? Women need to stop thinking that it's acceptable to enter into this sort of crushing debt without even consulting men on the subject.Depends on the career field. A lot of strong politicians benefit from having a Stay at home wife with an education that he can take to cocktail parties to help him talk it up with other politicians and their wives.
Yes but shouldn't this be a discussiong between man and woman, instead of a unilateral action on the woman's part?


It should be the man's decision...
Serious answer: yes, it should be something they discuss.

It is an unspoken agreement. When a girl with a masters acts like an Air and responds to the question what do you want to do with your degree with "I don't know" and twirling her hair. It is pretty obvious she is looking for a trophy wife position. Thankfully it makes them easy to avoid.

Wouldn't it make sense then to limit the amount of positions open to women in post-secondary institutions? If they are going to fritter away the opportunity and accrue crushing debt while doing so, preventing more qualified and ambitious men from studying, then there appears to be no economic or social reason for this ridiculous practice.

You know what really doesn't make sense? Women have become disproportionately represented in post-secondary institutions. Going into unfathonable debt to become academics and glorified housewives (we all know how many women go into post-secondary JUST so they can land a wealthy husband...ah yes, the time honoured tradition of earning your MRS). Then, all this debt gets transferred to their husbands. Would it be economically prudent for you to marry a woman who owed $94,000 on a car you couldn't even drive? Women need to stop thinking that it's acceptable to enter into this sort of crushing debt without even consulting men on the subject.
a woman needs a certain level of education in order to be the best mother possible for her sons.

so if she goes into moderate debt in a course of home economics, liberal arts, education, nursing or other women's courses its all to the good.

Wouldn't it make sense then to limit the amount of positions open to women in post-secondary institutions? If they are going to fritter away the opportunity and accrue crushing debt while doing so, preventing more qualified and ambitious men from studying, then there appears to be no economic or social reason for this ridiculous practice.

Sadly we are not allowed to consider intent in admissions.

I don't discriminate. My hang-ups don't limit me to irrational fear of only one sex.

I spent a bit of time on another forum recently. It's a German forum, linked to one of the bigger newspapers/magazines there, and I mostly did it because I discovered that I start forgetting my German.
Now, as was to be expected, the posters there are quite unlike the ones on here. They tend to be a bit older on average, and a good bit less international.

What quite shocked me though was the quite obvious sexist behaviour of a good deal of posters on there ... from being talked down to for letting on the I am female, in the worst 1950s style, to outright rants about how women ought to be made to go back to just being housewifes as this would create jobs and to blaming women for not having enough children any more, it was all there. And not just from one poster, either.
Now, the magazine in question isn't exactly working-class, on the contrary. So I couldn't for the life of me understand how so many of the posters there would feel so threatened by women.... can anybody maybe explain this one to me?
I've never encountered such views or such behaviour in real life, as far as I can remember. Do you think it might be a generation thing?
I think it might be an old-boys-network + internet+anonymity+poster=asshole thing.

@OP: Yes, I am scared of women. Everytime I dream about women I wake up all sweaty :D

I spent a bit of time on another forum recently. It's a German forum, linked to one of the bigger newspapers/magazines there, and I mostly did it because I discovered that I start forgetting my German.
Now, as was to be expected, the posters there are quite unlike the ones on here. They tend to be a bit older on average, and a good bit less international.

What quite shocked me though was the quite obvious sexist behaviour of a good deal of posters on there ... from being talked down to for letting on the I am female, in the worst 1950s style, to outright rants about how women ought to be made to go back to just being housewifes as this would create jobs and to blaming women for not having enough children any more, it was all there. And not just from one poster, either.
Now, the magazine in question isn't exactly working-class, on the contrary. So I couldn't for the life of me understand how so many of the posters there would feel so threatened by women.... can anybody maybe explain this one to me?
I've never encountered such views or such behaviour in real life, as far as I can remember. Do you think it might be a generation thing?

I'm suspecting there's some link between this and Nazism. Have you SEEN the a Nazi's on NS? Most've got dominatrix-like women with whips on them. So... yeah.

Germany? Intolerant? I'm shocked. No, I'm not afraid of women, but I am afraid of the cost of being divorced by one someday.

@OP: Yes, I am scared of women. Everytime I dream about women I wake up all sweaty :D

scared stiff?

Hell yeah, women are scary:

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/fail-owned-pregnancy-fail.jpg?w=500&h=299

Of course women are scary. Think about it, what would frighten you more if you found it in your bed when you woke up: a strange spider, or a strange woman?

Of course women are scary. Think about it, what would frighten you more if you found it in your bed when you woke up: a strange spider, or a strange woman?

This:

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/3yu0877243.gif

This:

<snip The King>

Touche`, old friend.

You know what really doesn't make sense? Women have become disproportionately represented in post-secondary institutions. Going into unfathonable debt to become academics and glorified housewives (we all know how many women go into post-secondary JUST so they can land a wealthy husband...ah yes, the time honoured tradition of earning your MRS). Then, all this debt gets transferred to their husbands. Would it be economically prudent for you to marry a woman who owed $94,000 on a car you couldn't even drive? Women need to stop thinking that it's acceptable to enter into this sort of crushing debt without even consulting men on the subject.
I know you're having fun with the sarcasm Nessika, but in all seriousness, this is an issue in Japan were they probably have the world's most over-qualified housewives.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fl20090331zg.html
(Note that this article is beating Nessika in terms of sarcasm, but the problem is very real).

I know you're having fun with the sarcasm Nessika, but in all seriousness, this is an issue in Japan were they probably have the world's most over-qualified housewives.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fl20090331zg.html
(Note that this article is beating Nessika in terms of sarcasm, but the problem is very real).

What I'm not being sarcastic about is my disdain for women who really do still go into post-secondary in order to find a rich husband.

My first year in undergrad, when the sororoties were recruiting, some ditzes were doing their sorority cheer and it basically stated that this was the ultimate goal of a girl. I wanted to beat them all with my shoe.

What I'm not being sarcastic about is my disdain for women who really do still go into post-secondary in order to find a rich husband.

My first year in undergrad, when the sororoties were recruiting, some ditzes were doing their sorority cheer and it basically stated that this was the ultimate goal of a girl. I wanted to beat them all with my shoe.
That's perfectly normal (Wanting to beat sororities I mean).

@OP: Yes, I am scared of women. Everytime I dream about women I wake up all sweaty :D

That's.....not sweat.

I am not scared of women as much as I am terrified of teenaged girls. The women they will become chill me to the core.

Only one: Hillary Clinton. Then again, a picture of her is enough to scare the stink off a pile of shit.

I know you're having fun with the sarcasm Nessika, but in all seriousness, this is an issue in Japan were they probably have the world's most over-qualified housewives.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fl20090331zg.html
(Note that this article is beating Nessika in terms of sarcasm, but the problem is very real).

my friend's adopted neice (they adopted his wife's neice so she could live and get an education here in America) once went back to Japan before she graduated from High School... after she returned, she declared that she would stay in America and become a citizen. she didn't believe us that she once acted like her friends who come to visit her in Hawaii when she first moved here... we totally corrupted this sweet, Japanese girl with our Western Culture. :p

scared stiff?

Hehe, yes :)

That's.....not sweat.

Ummm... eeew, what are you thinking :p

My family leads a sheltered and liberal life, minus my mother, who holds sexist opinions against women.

my friend's adopted neice (they adopted his wife's neice so she could live and get an education here in America) once went back to Japan before she graduated from High School... after she returned, she declared that she would stay in America and become a citizen. she didn't believe us that she once acted like her friends who come to visit her in Hawaii when she first moved here... we totally corrupted this sweet, Japanese girl with our Western Culture. :p
In all seriousness, the general trend is that Japanese women who do go abroad to the West have one hell of a time readjusting to the very male dominated society that Japan is. While it's just personal experience, I've known a few women who have who have also complained (Once drunk of course) about their inability to find a boyfriend they could stand because they no longer are willing to play nursemaid to Japanese men.

I know my wife, for all her protests of being a normal Japanese girl, has far more Western reactions towards sexism than those Japanese women I know who never left.

I am not scared of women as much as I am terrified of teenaged girls. The women they will become chill me to the core.
I feel the same way about most young Americans, of both sexes. I see our doom in them.

I feel the same way about most young Americans, of both sexes. I see our doom in them.
*snorts* Sometimes I feel the same way about my students. When my junior high kids are doing something stupid all I can think of is that there are the guys who are going to be running Japan one day, God help them all.

But then they turn around and you can get a glimpse of the adults that they will become and realize that everything is going to be fine...

Or at least not too much worse than the mess we're making ourselves.

*snorts* Sometimes I feel the same way about my students. When my junior high kids are doing something stupid all I can think of is that there are the guys who are going to be running Japan one day, God help them all.

But then they turn around and you can get a glimpse of the adults that they will become and realize that everything is going to be fine...

Or at least not too much worse than the mess we're making ourselves.
Let's hope. I see some stupid-ass stuff on the streets. Of course, I see adults doing the same, so maybe you're right -- it can't get much worse.

As for whether I'm afraid of women -- well, as a woman, I have met some women who are such horrendous representatives of the sex that I wish I could confiscate their vaginas -- but in general, no I'm not afraid of women because I'm on the inside of that club. ;)

I'm terribly afeard o' the womenfolk.

I hear tell they can make you sleep on the couch.

Let's hope. I see some stupid-ass stuff on the streets. Of course, I see adults doing the same, so maybe you're right -- it can't get much worse.
Doing stupid-ass stuff is the providence of youth. It's how we gain our wisdom in what NOT to do.

but in general, no I'm not afraid of women because I'm on the inside of that club. ;)
Just as an aside, I wonder if it would be possible for a woman to fear other women like some men do.

I think it might be an old-boys-network + internet+anonymity+poster=asshole thing.
QFT! And, btw, another intrawebs woman I do not fear (but do respect!).

I'm terribly afeard o' the womenfolk.

I hear tell they can make you sleep on the couch.
Hee, sex role reversal.... I've never made Carter go sleep on the couch, but I've sometimes camped there.

QFT! And, btw, another intrawebs woman I do not fear (but do respect!).
Aw, shucks.

LOL and I followed that link in your sig. MY, prosthetic balls was awfully big... and red....

*runs away*

Lack of context is fun. :)

Hee, sex role reversal.... I've never made Carter go sleep on the couch, but I've sometimes camped there.
Same here. First, it doesn't seem fair to reward him because I'm having an anger issue (the couch is mighty comfy) and second, half the time I'm pissed at him after he's already apologized, why kick him out of his bed because I'm being emotional.

Hee, sex role reversal.... I've never made Carter go sleep on the couch, but I've sometimes camped there.
Did he get mad at you or did you do the only fair thing and establish that it's the one who is pissed off who should move?

actually it wasn't so much and anger issue as GOOD LORD I NEED SLEEP AND IF I LISTEN TO YOU SNORING ONE SECOND MORE ONE OF US IS GONNA DIE issue.

Since I was the one who couldn't sleep, and I'd already tried waking him and asking him to roll over... easier to go sleep on the couch.

actually it wasn't so much and anger issue as GOOD LORD I NEED SLEEP AND IF I LISTEN TO YOU SNORING ONE SECOND MORE ONE OF US IS GONNA DIE issue.

Since I was the one who couldn't sleep, and I'd already tried waking him and asking him to roll over... easier to go sleep on the couch.
Ah! I can relate... er, I can relate to making my SO have to move due to loud snoring. :$

I spent a bit of time on another forum recently. It's a German forum, linked to one of the bigger newspapers/magazines there, and I mostly did it because I discovered that I start forgetting my German.
Now, as was to be expected, the posters there are quite unlike the ones on here. They tend to be a bit older on average, and a good bit less international.

What quite shocked me though was the quite obvious sexist behaviour of a good deal of posters on there ... from being talked down to for letting on the I am female, in the worst 1950s style, to outright rants about how women ought to be made to go back to just being housewifes as this would create jobs and to blaming women for not having enough children any more, it was all there. And not just from one poster, either.
Now, the magazine in question isn't exactly working-class, on the contrary. So I couldn't for the life of me understand how so many of the posters there would feel so threatened by women.... can anybody maybe explain this one to me?
I've never encountered such views or such behaviour in real life, as far as I can remember. Do you think it might be a generation thing?

I think its a generational thing, a thing that I hope will die off sooner as opposed to later. I'm not afraid of women in the least; unless she gives me a reason to be anyhow.

I am not scared of women as much as I am terrified of teenaged girls. The women they will become chill me to the core.

Whats wrong with teenage girls? Naive and easy to manipulate. Also they think Sonic is an expensive date.

I am not scared of women as much as I am terrified of teenaged girls. The women they will become chill me to the core.

Hm. Were you not a teenaged girl once?

Im scared of women rejecting me, lol...

Other than that though, Women deserve all the rights and opportunities that men have, anything else is discrimination and wrong...

It probably is a generational thing, although id thought most attitudes like that died out in anyone born after 1950 or so, lol...

I'd be justified to be "afraid" of women in the sense that the OP is speaking of, as in concerned that women will increasingly dominate the industry I work in and seek to edge me out (this is already happening). But simple fear of women qua women? No, that's silly. Even as someone who has gone his whole life without ever even speaking to a woman socially, I can see how silly it would be to have anxiety over dealing with them simply due to the fact that they're female rather than male.

Huh hold on there I don't understandthis at all. Are you telling me that you have say a set limit on the amount of times you can be polite in a day, or summit?

That's actually the exact opposite of what I said.

You said that to treat one person more politely meant I would have to treat others less politely.

I then said that that would only be true if there were a finite amount of politeness available to me, but there's not(i.e. I have an infinite amount of politeness available, or to put it another way 'politeness' is not really something that can be quantified.) so it's false. You see what I'm saying now?

Well obviously you like to think of it that way. Sadly, it's not.

Oh, well, that's me told then. Glad you cleared that up, I could have spent my life languishing in ignorance if you hadn't come along and saved me from myself.

If you hold a door for a woman, you know what she's thinking? She's thinking you held a door for her, a person, a human being. If she finds out you actually held the door open for her vagina, she's not going to be impressed.

I wouldn't expect her to be impressed by me holding the door. Especially when there is so much more about me that is so much more impressive than my ability to hold a door.

Whats wrong with teenage girls? Naive and easy to manipulate. Also they think Sonic is an expensive date.

"That's what I like about these high school girls, man; I get older, they stay the same age."

I will wait for a second....

Horrible as a verb... Now that's a new one.

THIS...IS...NSGEEEEEEEEEE!

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/240sw53swyu9.gif

It totally looks like he's wanking off to a super-hardcore porno there. That, or screwing a sheep or something...

It totally looks like he's wanking off to a super-hardcore porno there. That, or screwing a sheep or something...

Perfect for NSG.

again, if you have a person in that posistion (being the cook, cleaner and generally 'stay at home' person...) would you really want to piss that person off?

But would they want to piss off the person who owns the house and earns all the money allowing you to cook the food etc. That's the trouble with the 50s model, the imbalance in power. After all the man can always hire someone in to do all the cooking/cleaning etc, the women would have a lot of difficulty earning enough money to survive (especially with children) should she leave.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2008/12/I-Just-Want-Your-Kiss.jpg

Well that's an advert for alcoholism if ever I saw one.

Oh, well, that's me told then. Glad you cleared that up, I could have spent my life languishing in ignorance if you hadn't come along and saved me from myself.

You're welcome. I know that our culture does a piss-poor job of educating people, particularly young men, about sexism, so I try to help out when I can.


I wouldn't expect her to be impressed by me holding the door. Especially when there is so much more about me that is so much more impressive than my ability to hold a door.

Like, say, the fact that you have Serious Principles(tm) behind your inability to open doors for anybody with a penis! Go with your strengths, definitely.

What I'm not being sarcastic about is my disdain for women who really do still go into post-secondary in order to find a rich husband.

My first year in undergrad, when the sororoties were recruiting, some ditzes were doing their sorority cheer and it basically stated that this was the ultimate goal of a girl. I wanted to beat them all with my shoe.
While I share your disdain for women who would do that, I honestly don't think there's many of them.

Even though girls go to college more than guys, and even though women are rapidly becoming the more educated and skilled labor demographic, girls still get the message that all that matters in life is finding a man. No surprise that girls talk about just wanting to find a husband; they've been told, point blank, that nothing they could ever do or accomplish will mean anything unless they become a wife and mother also.

And, frankly, I have slightly more respect for girls who use college to get their Mrs. degrees than I have for the guys who spend $40K of their parents' money on tuition so that they can get drunk and collect STDs for four years. Not because there's anything wrong with being drunk and slutty, but simply because it's a waste to spend money on tuition if you really just want to live in a dorm...you can do that for much less. :P

Whats wrong with teenage girls? Naive and easy to manipulate. Also they think Sonic is an expensive date.

That is exactly the problem. Easy to manipulate air-heads.

And yes Parkus, I was a teenage girl, but not from the generation that's coming now.

I feel the same way about most young Americans, of both sexes. I see our doom in them.

Exactly.

You're welcome. I know that our culture does a piss-poor job of educating people, particularly young men, about sexism, so I try to help out when I can.

You can rest assured you're not alone. I've noticed that there never seems to be a shortage of people willing to hold forth to me about how oppressed their particular demographic is.

Like, say, the fact that you have Serious Principles(tm) behind your inability to open doors for anybody with a penis! Go with your strengths, definitely.

I don't actually have any Serious Principles to speak of. My motto tends to be 'If the cash is there, I don't care." I of course reserve the right to amend said motto at a moment's notice, it's one of the perks of being morally flexible. I do tend to lead with my strengths, though, which are, of course, legion.

That is exactly the problem. Easy to manipulate air-heads.

And yes Parkus, I was a teenage girl, but not from the generation that's coming now.
Oh don't get into that bullshit geezer stuff. :P

Fact is, teenage girls today are more informed than they've ever been. Yes, I'm sure something about the length of their hair or skirts or some other superficial bullshit is proof-positive that they're stupider than WE were, but come the fuck on.

Fact is, most teenage girls ignore the jackasses who think that Mathew Mcconaughey's character in Dazed and Confused was meant to be perceived as cool. And that's why dudes so desperately fixate on the small number of teen girls who don't...because only girls who are both that young AND that stupid will have anything to do with em. :D

My brother's a junior and most of his female classmates are pretty cool people. They're teenagers, so yeah, they'll be teenagers, but so what? I did the same and I'm still breathing.

You can rest assured you're not alone. I've noticed that there never seems to be a shortage of people willing to hold forth to me about how oppressed their particular demographic is.

Haha, seriously? Look, dude, chill out. You described your actions because you think they're something to be proud of, and instead you were told (correctly) that you're actually just kinda rude and unimpressive.

Nobody's talking about oppression except you, because I guess you're really defensive about this subject.


I don't actually have any Serious Principles to speak of.

Nor any sense of humor, apparently.


My motto tends to be 'If the cash is there, I don't care." I of course reserve the right to amend said motto at a moment's notice, it's one of the perks of being morally flexible. I do tend to lead with my strengths, though, which are, of course, legion.
Get a blog.

Oh don't get into that bullshit geezer stuff. :P

Yes... I admit it. I am old. :(

Fact is, teenage girls today are more informed than they've ever been. Yes, I'm sure something about the length of their hair or skirts or some other superficial bullshit is proof-positive that they're stupider than WE were, but come the fuck on.

Fact where? Your country?

I think you failed to see the context in which I posted my reply. I don't have a clue as to how teen girls are on your neck of the woods, it is your neck of the woods. But the ones I see in Spain, which is what concerns me, day in and day out, ARE just scary, stupid girls that, to my misfortune, will grow up to be the future women of my country.

I was one of them, but from a different generation.

Fact is, most teenage girls ignore the jackasses who think that Mathew Mcconaughey's character in Dazed and Confused was meant to be perceived as cool. And that's why dudes so desperately fixate on the small number of teen girls who don't...because only girls who are both that young AND that stupid will have anything to do with em. :D

Once again, you seem to be posting from your own cultural context.

My brother's a junior and most of his female classmates are pretty cool people. They're teenagers, so yeah, they'll be teenagers, but so what? I did the same and I'm still breathing.

And I'm sure your brother is a cool teenager, no reason why his friends shouldn't be the same. But your brother and his girl friends seem to be the exception to the rule. Don't kid yourself.

Yes... I admit it. I am old. :(



Fact where? Your country?

I think you failed to see the context in which I posted my reply. I don't have a clue as to how teen girls are on your neck of the woods, it is your neck of the woods. But the ones I see in Spain, which is what concerns me, day in and day out, ARE just scary, stupid girls that, to my misfortune, will grow up to be the future women of my country.

I was one of them, but from a different generation.



Once again, you seem to be posting from your own cultural context.



And I'm sure your brother is a cool teenager, no reason why his friends shouldn't be the same. But your brother and his girl friends seem to be the exception to the rule. Don't kid yourself.

I think the point is, that we are talking about teenagers. Who will eventualy become adults. The teen brain is not an adult brain, so I would say that you can more or less ignore any worries you currently have. People get older and they do change.

I think the point is, that we are talking about teenagers. Who will eventualy become adults. The teen brain is not an adult brain, so I would say that you can more or less ignore any worries you currently have. People get older and they do change.

I can only hope you're right.

I can only hope you're right.

Yeah of course I am. Test it yoruself. Think back to all of those things you said and done as a teen which you now realise was a mistake.

Yeah of course I am. Test it yoruself. Think back to all of those things you said and done as a teen which you now realise was a mistake.

I wasn't a typical teen, though. Never was. Of course, I did say stupid things.

Here is one of those things that chill me to the core back home. It's quite old, but if by 1999 the abortion rate had increased by 60%, I don't want to think of the increase now.

http://www.euthanasia.com/spain1999.html

Yeah of course I am. Test it yoruself. Think back to all of those things you said and done as a teen which you now realise was a mistake.

It's a biological fact that the brain's decisionmaking process changes during adolescence, shifting to the prefrontal cortex. That makes for less impulsive, more rational thinking. Or at least it's supposed to.

I think the point is, that we are talking about teenagers. Who will eventualy become adults. The teen brain is not an adult brain, so I would say that you can more or less ignore any worries you currently have. People get older and they do change.

Research has indicated that teenagers don't weight up risks in the same way that adults do, something to do with how their brains are developing at that age and it's not until the early 20s that that changes.

Or to put it another way:
"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets, inflamed by wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?", Plato circa 400BC. It's hardly a new thing.

It's a biological fact that the brain's decisionmaking process changes during adolescence, shifting to the prefrontal cortex. That makes for less impulsive, more rational thinking. Or at least it's supposed to.

I think that's part of the problem - it's too rational and they don't have the same weighting on very rare but catastrophic risks as adults. Ie they place emphasis on the fact that, for example, there's a 10,000 to 1 chance of them having a car crash (I know it's probably higher than that) rather than the fact that a car crash is likley to be fatal or at least result in significant injury. It's an interesting illustration of how rationality can be detrimental without a level of emotional weighting, which is gained through late adolescence and into adulthood.

I wasn't a typical teen, though. Never was. Of course, I did say stupid things.

Here is one of those things that chill me to the core back home. It's quite old, but if by 1999 the abortion rate had increased by 60%, I don't want to think of the increase now.

http://www.euthanasia.com/spain1999.html

Heh and I wonder just what percantage of teens would also declare themselves not typical?

Abortion rates, along with any reported increase in whatever have to be taken into account along with population growth.

It may be better to talk of % instead. What percentage of teens have abortions now, and what percentage did so 10, 20, 30 years ago?

Heh and I wonder just what percantage of teens would also declare themselves not typical?

Ah yes, the English gentleman is in an argumentative mood this morning, isn't he?:rolleyes:

Abortion rates, along with any reported increase in whatever have to be taken into account along with population growth.

It may be better to talk of % instead. What percentage of teens have abortions now, and what percentage did so 10, 20, 30 years ago?

http://www.ipfe.org/informe_aborto_espana_23.pdf

Since 1985 to 2008, the abortion rate increases by 1%-2% every year. In 2007, the percentage was of 18%, in 2007 it was of 17%, and like that, from '85 to '08, 155% was the estimated number. In the last 10 years, 155%.

Of course, this isn't what the OP is about.

Ah yes, the English gentleman is in an argumentative mood this morning, isn't he?:rolleyes:



http://www.ipfe.org/informe_aborto_espana_23.pdf

Since 1985 to 2008, the abortion rate increases by 1%-2% every year. In 2007, the percentage was of 18%, in 2007 it was of 17%, and like that, from '85 to '08, 155% was the estimated number. In the last 10 years, 155%.

Of course, this isn't what the OP is about.

Heh argumentative! Well yes and no. Yes coz I always am, and no because that wasn't my intent, it was really a throw away line.

And if we look at these % in line with population growth what are then the actual % rise?

I was just going to skip to the end and jump right in, but somehow this thread on feeling threatened by women has turned into something about teenagers and abortion. I think I've missed something.

Heh argumentative! Well yes and no. Yes coz I always am, and no because that wasn't my intent, it was really a throw away line.

Let us chalk it up as you presenting a throw away line and me not in the mood to play along. Shall we?

And if we look at these % in line with population growth what are then the actual % rise?

Of every 10 pregnancies in Spain, 8 are voluntarily terminated.

I was just going to skip to the end and jump right in, but somehow this thread on feeling threatened by women has turned into something about teenagers and abortion. I think I've missed something.

Ahh we just got sidelined(again) you know how it goes. I blame that Spanish woman!:D

Ahh we just got sidelined(again) you know how it goes. I blame that Spanish woman!:D

Sí, soy culpable.:D

Let us chalk it up as you presenting a throw away line and me not in the mood to play along. Shall we?



Of every 10 pregnancies in Spain, 8 are voluntarily terminated.

Yes I can get with that.:D How many of these 10 pregnacies are teenagers I wonder?

Yes I can get with that.:D How many of these 10 pregnacies are teenagers I wonder?

The government alleges that of those 10 pregnancies, at least 6 are teenagers.

Of every 10 pregnancies in Spain, 8 are voluntarily terminated.

Pregnancies, or teen pregnancies? Our abortion rate for teen pregnancies is about 80% or a bit more, but that's a staggering number if you mean pregnancies in general.

Pregnancies, or teen pregnancies? Our abortion rate for teen pregnancies is about 80% or a bit more, but that's a staggering number if you mean pregnancies in general.

Check the post underneath yours.

The government alleges that of those 10 pregnancies, at least 6 are teenagers.

So 60% of pregnacies are teenagers? Heh and here was I beliving all the hype when we are told that Britain has the highest amount of teen pregnacies in Europe!

Or is my maths shit?

So 60% of pregnacies are teenagers? Heh and here was I beliving all the hype when we are told that Britain has the highest amount of teen pregnacies in Europe!

Spain has a particular problem with this, I grant that. We have a serious problem with unwanted pregnancies with immigrant women, and teens.

Check the post underneath yours.

I'm sorry. I see that now. This thread is moving very quickly.

The last I heard, the abortion rate here was around 25% for pregnancies in general, and almost 50% for unintended pregnancies. I hope your government has as much luck as possible with that problem. :(

I'm sorry. I see that now. This thread is moving very quickly.

The last I heard, the abortion rate here was around 25% for pregnancies in general, and almost 50% for unintended pregnancies. I hope your government has as much luck as possible with that problem. :(

Problem? Or to look at it another way. Your country would have 25% more population if it wasn't for these brave women.

I'm sorry. I see that now. This thread is moving very quickly.

The last I heard, the abortion rate here was around 25% for pregnancies in general, and almost 50% for unintended pregnancies. I hope your government has as much luck as possible with that problem. :(

I surely hope they can come up with a solution. I don't mean take away the right women have to end a pregnancy if they so choose to, but the problem with teen pregancies is too acute. It seems education isn't quite cutting it, and this is not solely about what is being taught at school, but also education home. We need to stop arguing on wether LOE (teaching religion) is ok for school or not and concentrate on 1) sexual education both at home and at school and, 2) providing the proper tools for immigrant women (teen included) to adapt to the country and consider the implications of unprotected sex.

Pregnancy isn't, unfortunately, the only problem teen girls face back home. STDs are also a problem, an ever increasing one.

Problem? Or to look at it another way. Your country would have 25% more population if it wasn't for these brave women.

True, I personally seen the high abortion rate as a symptom of the wider issue of teen pregnancy. Ergo - we want to reduce it because we want to reduce the number of teen pregnancies generally and thus the number of women going through the trauma, not because abortion is the GreatEvilTm (I think the world would be a better place with a lot less people, so I fully support abortion rights)

True, I personally seen the high abortion rate as a symptom of the wider issue of teen pregnancy. Ergo - we want to reduce it because we want to reduce the number of teen pregnancies generally and thus the number of women going through the trauma, not because abortion is the GreatEvilTm (I think the world would be a better place with a lot less people, so I fully support abortion rights)

Ahhh yes indeed, stick, wrong end etc...

As Nanatsu says it's about the education innit.

Problem? Or to look at it another way. Your country would have 25% more population if it wasn't for these brave women.

Having to terminate isn't usually considered an ideal state of affairs. Contraception would be preferrable, especially given that some women experience depression or feelings of guilt or alienation after having to terminate.

Ahhh yes indeed, stick, wrong end etc...

As Nanatsu says it's about the education innit.

Not just education but attitude - it's all very well to be educated about safe-sex if you feel ashamed to go and buy condoms in case your parents will find them or you can't get them because you're underaged or if you are getting peer pressure.

Or should that be it's about education but not just giving the facts to children - it's about educating parents too to listen and talk to their children about these issues. And indeed about education wider society in our attitudes. It's not a simple problem.

Not just education but attitude - it's all very well to be educated about safe-sex if you feel ashamed to go and buy condoms in case your parents will find them or you can't get them because you're underaged or if you are getting peer pressure.

Or should that be it's about education but not just giving the facts to children - it's about educating parents too to listen and talk to their children about these issues. And indeed about education wider society in our attitudes. It's not a simple problem.

Agreed, and of course over here in Blighty you an go to your GP with or without your parnets knowldge and ask for the pill or condoms, also from the family planning clinic.

The real problem as I see it, is the age old wey we adults tend to clam up when sex is mentioned around our younguns(well of course, I'll not include myself in that)