NationStates Jolt Archive

Then I need to be declared tax exempt.

Go there. The Bacardi distillery kicks ass!

Yes, but the US and the two islands all share a common language in that Spanish is, and always has been, spoken by native speakers in those three nations.
.

I wonder what the Taino Native tribe would say about that?

Go there. The Bacardi distillery kicks ass!

But i dont want to learn Spanish.

I wonder what the Taino Native tribe would say about that?

Probably disagree with GoG. Perhaps he should read a bit more about Puerto Rico, the identity of its people and the culture before thinking the island shares something in common with the US besides a political relation.

But i dont want to learn Spanish.

Then, Greedy, you got a big problem. Spanish is the main language spoken there.

Then, Greedy, you got a big problem. Spanish is the main language spoken there.

cant soil my soul learning a bastard offshoot of Latin.

Probably disagree with GoG. Perhaps he should read a bit more about Puerto Rico, the identity of its people and the culture before thinking the island shares something in common with the US besides a political relation.

We have a lot of shared history. Even before the US was a nation.

But i dont want to learn Spanish.

It's not that difficult to learn.

We have a lot of shared history. Even before the US was a nation.

Shared history? Like?

Shared history? Like?

Well the colonization of the Caribbean included parts of the US. There were many small wars and colonies going back and forth between the Spanish, English, French and Dutch. These included the US mainland prior to independence. There were migrations to and from the US into the Caribbean. Many Caribbean people can trace their roots back to US African/slaves or US/European stock. Continuous US involvement in the affairs good and bad over centuries. Most notable was the Spanish/American war. Which started in Cuba and ultimately gained it's freedom because of it. World War III almost started over Cuba. Puerto Rico under US administration for over a hundred years now. Those are the things that come to the top of my head. I suppose if I actually did a net search I could come up with more.

Well the colonization of the Caribbean included parts of the US. There were many small wars and colonies going back and forth between the Spanish, English, French and Dutch. These included the US mainland prior to independence. There were migrations to and from the US into the Caribbean. Many Caribbean people can trace their roots back to US African/slaves or US/European stock. Continuous US involvement in the affairs good and bad over centuries. Most notable was the Spanish/American war. Which started in Cuba and ultimately gained it's freedom because of it. World War III almost started over Cuba. Puerto Rico under US administration for over a hundred years now. Those are the things that come to the top of my head. I suppose if I actually did a net search I could come up with more.

Once again, the only common piece of history,now, that the US and PR share is one country getting the other a booty after the end of the Spanish-American War of 1898. Oh, and in 1949, a political relation with the US. Nothing else.

They are as different from Americans as the Christians are to the Muslim, although both religions are of Abrahamic origin. There may be correlations, historical ones, but the sharing of a common background and a common culture, nope. PR's history precedes that of the US for, I don't know, 500 years? Pretty much. Merely a 100 years of rule do not change that.

Once again, the only common piece of history,now, that the US and PR share is one country getting the other a booty after the end of the Spanish-American War of 1898. Oh, and in 1949, a political relation with the US. Nothing else.

They are as different from Americans as the Christians are to the Muslim, although both religions are of Abrahamic origin. There may be correlations, historical ones, but the sharing of a common background and a common culture, nope. PR's history precedes that of the US for, I don't know, 500 years? Pretty much. Merely a 100 years of rule do not change that.

Puerto Rico first settlement by Europeans was in 1508, First European settlement in the US was 1559 in Florida by the same European nation of Spain. Hardly 500 years.



Going to have to disagree here with you on the shared history. There is plenty of it to speak of in my opinion. You disagree so I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.

PR's history precedes that of the US for, I don't know, 500 years? Pretty much. Merely a 100 years of rule do not change that.

I would think that Puerto Rico's original inhabitants came from the land which was going to be known as the US. Considering the patterns of pre-historic human migration.

Miami Shores, I think I speak for everyone when I say you need to learn how to post more clearly. Your posts are often far too long and disorganized, make our eyes bleed and lack clear and coherant thought.

That said, I'm suprised nobody has commented on this epic development of what Raul Castro has told America:

Cuban President Raul Castro says his government is willing to discuss "everything" with Washington, including human rights, political prisoners and freedom of the press.

Cuban President Raul Castro says his government is willing to discuss "everything" with Washington, including human rights, political prisoners and freedom of the press.

Clearly a major breakthrough. Obama has a chance to leave a lasting legacy here. Hopefully he handles it correctly. So far it seems to be going good. He could get the nickname the Obamanator for finally breaking the one family rule in Cuba.

Clearly a major breakthrough. Obama has a chance to leave a lasting legacy here. Hopefully he handles it correctly. So far it seems to be going good.
My thoughts exactly. This could be a huge win for the American administration and President Obama's personal legacy if he/we play our cards right, not to mention bring liberation to the Cuban people who have suffered half a century of Communist oppression.

I would think that Puerto Rico's original inhabitants came from the land which was going to be known as the US. Considering the patterns of pre-historic human migration.

Way to miss the point there, Cooper.:rolleyes:

Way to miss the point there, Cooper.:rolleyes:

At least I was historically accurate.

Puerto Rico first settlement by Europeans was in 1508, First European settlement in the US was 1559 in Florida by the same European nation of Spain. Hardly 500 years.



Going to have to disagree here with you on the shared history. There is plenty of it to speak of in my opinion. You disagree so I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.

You did see that I was referring to the US, as the nation it became. Not as the scattered settlements the Spaniards established there and that, later on, became inconsequential to what your nation turned out to be, right? You don't share the culture (your country is a melting pot), you don't share the language (Spanish is the language of the island nation, while English far from official, is the predominant language of the US), you don't share the religion (PR is predominantly Catholic, the US is Protestant), the idiosyncrasy of Puerto Rico is completely different to that of the US. People there are raised differently, the food, the manners, the folklore, the history, the legends, the music and the way people act, all of what makes a country, are INCREDIBLY different from that of the US. In all aspects. All the 2 countries share, now, in common, is a political relationship and maybe, just maybe, a distant past. Nothing else. Ask a Puerto Rican.

You became a nation scarcely 200 years ago. Puerto Rico was already a colony in 1495.

You did see that I was referring to the US, as the nation it became. Not as the scattered settlements the Spaniards established there and that, later on, became inconsequential to what your nation turned out to be, right? You don't share the culture (your country is a melting pot), you don't share the language (Spanish is the language of the island nation, while English far from official, is the predominant language of the US), you don't share the religion (PR is predominantly Catholic, the US is Protestant), the idiosyncrasy of Puerto Rico is completely different to that of the US. People there are raised differently, the food, the manners, the folklore, the history, the legends, the music and the way people act, all of what makes a country, are INCREDIBLY different from that of the US. In all aspects. All the 2 countries share, now, in common, is a political relationship and maybe, just maybe, a distant past. Nothing else. Ask a Puerto Rican.

You became a nation scarcely 200 years ago. Puerto Rico was already a colony in 1495.

By and large most Hispanics left after we took the former areas of northern new Spain. Mostly because the whites had a habit of cheating them out of their land.

Miami Shores, I think I speak for everyone when I say you need to learn how to post more clearly. Your posts are often far too long and disorganized, make our eyes bleed and lack clear and coherant thought.

That said, I'm suprised nobody has commented on this epic development of what Raul Castro has told America:

Cuban President Raul Castro says his government is willing to discuss "everything" with Washington, including human rights, political prisoners and freedom of the press.

Even Fidel has stated in a recent reflection he wishes Cuba, USA relations.

If President Raul means the release of Cuban political prisoners within Cuba not exile. Freedoms of the Press. Freedoms of Assembly. Allows multi political party elections to the Cuban National Assembly Parliament, awesome.

I will be the first to welcome it. Cuban Americans will welcome it. If President Raul means an exchange of political prisoners for their five revolutionary heroes. Emigration of the prisoners families to Miami. As President Raul has recently suggested than it is just talk and relations in exchange for nothing.

I dont see why the Cuban government needs relations with any nation to democratize itself if it wants too. The Cuban government has relations with Canada and the EU and has refused to democratize itself. The Cuban government has had and has constructive engagement with Spain and the EU. Constructive engagement has failed because the Cuban government refuses to democratize itself.

President Raul and the Cuban government also state. Based on equality, mutual respect and national soveriginity of both nations. Without international pressures. While it sounds logical and nice we are talking about a dictatorship government.

I will believe change we can believe in from the Cuban dictatorship when it democratizes itself not before. Cuban Americans will believe change we can believe in from Cuba when Raul democratizes Cuba not before.

Even Fidel has stated in a recent reflection he wishes Cuba, USA relations.

If President Raul means the release of Cuban political prisoners within Cuba not exile. Freedoms of the Press. Freedoms of Assembly. Allows multi political party elections to the Cuban National Assembly Parliament, awesome.

I will be the first to welcome it. Cuban Americans will welcome it. If President Raul means an exchange of political prisoners for their five revolutionary heroes. Emigration of the prisoners families to Miami. As President Raul has recently suggested than it is just talk and relations in exchange for nothing.

I dont see why the Cuban government needs relations with any nation to democratize itself if it wants too. The Cuban government has relations with Canada and the EU and has refused to democratize itself. The Cuban government has had and has constructive engagement with Spain and the EU. Constructive engagement has failed because the Cuban government refuses to democratize itself.

President Raul and the Cuban government also state. Based on equality, mutual respect and national soveriginity of both nations. Without international pressures. While it sounds logical and nice we are talking about a dictatorship government.

I will believe change we can believe in from the Cuban dictatorship when it democratizes itself not before. Cuban Americans will believe change we can believe in from Cuba when Raul democratizes Cuba not before.
Look, nobody is a bigger opponent of Communist dictatorships than me, but the fact remains that the embargo is an anachronism, a throw back to the Cold War when we used it to isolate a politically hostile nation.

Now a days, if you really want to see Cuba transform, let Castro and his buddies try to fight the almighty dollar by lifting the embargo. Allow private companies the opportunity to invest. Allow a private sector the chance to flourish and in doing so, compete with the government's current domination of economic activity in Cuba. The Castros are fighting an uphill battle by trying to cut off their island from the world and enslaving their people through the communist party's domination of the economic, political and social sectors of society, but by keeping the embargo in place, we are helping them, pushing with them in trying to isolate Cuba and cut it off from the world.

"You can resist an invading army; you cannot resist an idea whose time has come.”

That idea is freedom, democracy and capitalism. Cuba will eventually succumb to it. The only question is, are we doing our very best to see it get there as soon as possible? By keeping the embargo in place, we cannot, in honesty, answer that question in the positive.

Look, nobody is a bigger opponent of Communist dictatorships than me, but the fact remains that the embargo is an anachronism, a throw back to the Cold War when we used it to isolate a politically hostile nation.

Now a days, if you really want to see Cuba transform, let Castro and his buddies try to fight the almighty dollar by lifting the embargo. Allow private companies the opportunity to invest. Allow a private sector the chance to flourish and in doing so, compete with the government's current domination of economic activity in Cuba. The Castros are fighting an uphill battle by trying to cut off their island from the world and enslaving their people through the communist party's domination of the economic, political and social sectors of society, but by keeping the embargo in place, we are helping them, pushing with them in trying to isolate Cuba and cut it off from the world.

"You can resist an invading army; you cannot resist an idea whose time has come.”

That idea is freedom, democracy and capitalism. Cuba will eventually succumb to it. The only question is, are we doing our very best to see it get there as soon as possible? By keeping the embargo in place, we cannot, in honesty, answer that question in the positive.


What you say makes sense. Yet European trade and investments in Cuba have not brought democratic changes. Trade with the world has not brought about democratic changes. I dont expect President Raul to allow any kind of economic relations that will weaken thier political control. Unless they have lost thier minds. Unless they are willing to commit political suicide. I am glad you are an anti communist dictatorhip person. At least most of my other fellow nations have not expressed themselves that way.

Lets see if President Raul allows economic relations in a way it weakens thier political control. Time will tell. I hope your right and they allow it that way.

Please read post 273 for reference. Here we go again. Something for everyone.

Cuban government record regarding Cuban political prisoners. Arrest some, release some. Exile some. Parole some under probation. So if they peacefully protest the government again they can always be re-arrested. As they have violated thier parole. It has all been a game.

President Obama may by intent and or circumstance reveal the Cuban government to the world as the real hardline intransigent one by refusing to democratize.

Constructive engagement with the EU and US would have failed. What then?

If President Raul really releases Cuban political prisoners within Cuba. Allows freedoms of assembly. Allows real freedoms of the press, awesome. Allows multi political party elections, miracle. Time will tell.

By BEN FELLER, Associated Press Writer Ben Feller, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 36 mins ago

PORT-OF-SPAIN, Trinidad Obama suggests Cuba release political prisoners

Defending his brand of world politics, President Barack Obama said Sunday that he "strengthens our hand" by reaching out to enemies of the United States and making sure that the nation is a leader, not a lecturer, of democracy.

Obama's foreign doctrine emerged across his four-day trip to Latin America, his first extended venture to a region of the world where resentment of U.S. power still lingers. He got a smile, handshakes and even a gift from incendiary leftist leader Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, and embraced overtures of new relations from isolated Cuban President Raul Castro.

"The whole notion was that if we showed courtesy or opened up dialogue with governments that had previously been hostile to us, that that somehow would be a sign of weakness," Obama said, recalling his race for the White House and challenging his critics today.

"The American people didn't buy it," Obama said. "And there's a good reason the American people didn't buy it _ because it doesn't make sense."

Still, Obama made sure to inject some go-it-slow caution and clear expectations for U.S. foes as he capped his trip to twin-island nation of Trinidad and Tobago with a steamy outdoor news conference.

On Cuba, he said Castro should release political prisoners, embrace democratic freedoms and cut fees on the money that Cuban-Americans send back to their families. Obama has lifted some restrictions on Cuba, and Castro responded with a broad, conciliatory overture.

"The fact that you had Raul Castro say he's willing to have his government discuss with ours not just issues of lifting the embargo, but issues of human rights, political prisoners, that's a sign of progress," Obama said. "And so we're going to explore and see if we can make some further steps."

He did not, though, offer any sign of lifting the crushing U.S. trade embargo on Cuba, as many Latin American and U.S. leaders want. Obama acknowledged that the U.S. policy in Cuba for the last 50 years "hasn't worked" but said change will be gradual.

In Washington, both Democrats and Republicans said Sunday that they wanted to see actions, not just rhetoric, from Cuba.

"Release the prisoners and we'll talk to you. ... Put up or shut up," said Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C.

"I think we're taking the right steps, and I think the ball is now clearly in Cuba's court," said Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo. "They need to respond and say what they're willing to do."

As for Venezuela, Obama's friendly encounters with Chavez at the summit drew intense publicity _ partly, Obama said, because Chavez is good at getting in front of TV cameras. Chavez's anti-American rhetoric has, in the past, led Obama to call him a demagogue.

Before he even got back to Washington, Obama was facing condemnation from some Republicans about how he dealt with Chavez. The president brushed that aside, noting that Venezuela has a defense budget about one-six hundredth the size of the United States' and owns the oil company Citgo.

"It's unlikely that as a consequence of me shaking hands or having a polite conversation with Mr. Chavez that we are endangering the strategic interests of the United States," Obama said. "I don't think anybody can find any evidence that that would do so."

Venezuela and the United States expelled each other's ambassadors last September. But during the summit, Chavez approached Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton and said he was restoring his nation's ambassador in Washington, voicing hopes for a new era in relations.

"We ratify our willingness to begin what has started: cementing new relations," Chavez said Sunday in remarks broadcast on state television. "We have the very strong willingness to work together."

Obama's dealings with Chavez spoke to his broader message: dismissing arguments of the past, and respecting other democratic governments even if he opposes their economic and foreign policy.

"If we are practicing what we preach, and if we occasionally confess to having strayed from our values and our ideals, that strengthens our hand," Obama said. "That allows us to speak with greater moral force and clarity around these issues."

He said of his doctrine for engagement: "We're not simply going to lecture you, but we're rather going to show through how we operate the benefits of these values and ideals."

The president said he found it interesting that many of the leaders talked about how Cuban doctors have dispersed throughout the region, and their countries depend on them.

"It's a reminder for us in the United States that if our only interaction with many of these countries is drug interdiction, if our only interaction is military, then we may not be developing the connections that can, over time, increase our influence," Obama said.

Central American leaders who met with Obama said they pressed him on immigration reform. They also said that Obama promised to consider providing better notice before the United States deports dangerous criminals back to their nations.

Even Nicaragua President Daniel Ortega, a critic of U.S. policy, said he found Obama receptive to dealing with the issues raised. Ortega said Obama "is the president of an empire" that has rules the president cannot change. Nevertheless, Ortega said, "I want to believe that he's inclined, that he's got the will."

Both Graham and McCaskill spoke on "Fox News Sunday."

By and large most Hispanics left after we took the former areas of northern new Spain. Mostly because the whites had a habit of cheating them out of their land.

Don't get me wrong, I am not belittling the US's history. I know it has a lot of meaning to what your country and people feel as a ''nation''. I just find it ridiculous to try and allege that just because one country shares a political relation it makes it the same as the nation it shares it with. It doesn't. Take Australia, for example. Yes, they share a history with the UK, but ask any Aussie and I'm sure they will tell you that they feel proud to be Aussie, and that they're not English nor feel anything in common with the English, except for a common language. This is not the case of Puerto Rico and the United Stated. The US and Puerto Rico are as different from each other as any country could get.

IS the embargo not simply a means of striking at Cuba's economy until it is stretched beyond breaking? Keep it there, I say, until the government is forced to bend a knee to America. What is the point of relinquishing this tool until the Castro government is completely displaced?

Admittedly, there's been a long time for this breaking to happen and it hasn't done so yet. Another few years, then, until a formal apology on the part of Cuba can be made... then, lift the embargo.

I wonder what the Taino Native tribe would say about that?

This has absolutely nothing to do with the simple fact that all three countries share a common language: Spanish.

If you want to have some sort of semantic debate about the word 'native, you'll have to find someone else.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the simple fact that all three countries share a common language: Spanish.

If you want to have some sort of semantic debate about the word 'native, you'll have to find someone else.

My response was fitting. Seeing how it came from you.

Don't get me wrong, I am not belittling the US's history. I know it has a lot of meaning to what your country and people feel as a ''nation''. I just find it ridiculous to try and allege that just because one country shares a political relation it makes it the same as the nation it shares it with. It doesn't. Take Australia, for example. Yes, they share a history with the UK, but ask any Aussie and I'm sure they will tell you that they feel proud to be Aussie, and that they're not English nor feel anything in common with the English, except for a common language. This is not the case of Puerto Rico and the United Stated. The US and Puerto Rico are as different from each other as any country could get.

I know. Hispanics really didn't start filtering back into the US in alrge numbers until the 20th century.

though if we move 10 million Gringos to Puerto rico we could Americanize that place pretty fast.

My response was fitting. Seeing how it came from you.

I have no idea what you mean.

I know. Hispanics really didn't start filtering back into the US in alrge numbers until the 20th century.

though if we move 10 million Gringos to Puerto rico we could Americanize that place pretty fast.

Hispanics have been present in the US in large numbers since before the US was an independent nation.

I have no idea what you mean.



Hispanics have been present in the US in large numbers since before the US was an independent nation.
Indeed there were Hispanics in what would become the United states before Englishmen had even sailed the Atlantic.
AS a % of legally incorporated US territory however, not so much. As we took California and Texas and as the whites began moving in taking their land. The Hispanics elected to move south. We basically treated Hispanics like Native Americans except instead of putting them on reservations we sent them to Mexico.

Indeed there were Hispanics in what would become the United states before Englishmen had even sailed the Atlantic.
AS a % of legally incorporated US territory however, not so much. As we took California and Texas and as the whites began moving in taking their land. The Hispanics elected to move south. We basically treated Hispanics like Native Americans except instead of putting them on reservations we sent them to Mexico.

Do you have a link?

Do you have a link?

http://www.census.gov/

http://www.census.gov/

This link does not support your claim that the US chased hispanics into Mexico.

This link does not support your claim that the US chased hispanics into Mexico.

A Data base listing ethnic differences of the country in 10 year intervals is clearly of no use in determining migrations trends of minorities. What ever was I thinking?

A Data base listing ethnic differences of the country in 10 year intervals is clearly of no use in determining migrations trends of minorities. What ever was I thinking?

Youre drawing a conclusion based on insuffecient evidence. There could be zillions of reasons for those trends.

Youre drawing a conclusion based on insuffecient evidence. There could be zillions of reasons for those trends.

He asked for a link. That's what I could give him in a Link.
If he would like a book I would recommend In Search of the Racial Frontier by Quintard Taylor. Mostly covers African Americans but also touches on Hispanics and Native Americans.

He asked for a link. That's what I could give him in a Link.
If he would like a book I would recommend In Search of the Racial Frontier by Quintard Taylor. Mostly covers African Americans but also touches on Hispanics and Native Americans.

Thanks, I'll look it up.

One has to wonder... why still maintain this embargo against Cuba while products manufactured in Vietnam, the nation that was unified by Northern communist forces despite the immense efforts of the ruthless US American war machine (and a number of Australian forces, mind you), can be bought in every Walmart in the States?

One has to wonder... why still maintain this embargo against Cuba while products manufactured in Vietnam, the nation that was unified by Northern communist forces despite the immense efforts of the ruthless US American war machine (and a number of Australian forces, mind you), can be bought in every Walmart in the States?

because the Viets got Đổi mới( An economic reform with some political reform). That and Vietnamese Americans they live largely in California(I think), and California isn't a swing state.

Please read post 274 as a reference point as it is all related. As I have stated the Cuban government arrests, releases, re-arrests and exiles Cuban political prisoners. I dont think the Cuban government will allow any economic relations that will weaken thier dictatorship control. I think there is only a 50-50 % chance of a miracle that President Raul will do what President Obama asks. Democratize Cuba. If not what then? I hope President Raul democratizes Cuba as President Obama asks.

Posted on Monday, 04.20.09
By FRANCES ROBLES
frobles@MiamiHerald.com

PORT OF SPAIN, Trinidad -- President Barack Obama sent a clear message Sunday to Cuban leader Raúl Castro: It's your turn.

If Castro wants to start dialogue with the United States, he should release political prisoners and lower the steep fees the Cuban government charges on money sent from abroad, Obama said.

In the meantime, his administration will examine what other steps can be taken toward ending decades of isolation between Washington and the hemisphere's last communist nation.

''The fact that you had Raúl Castro say he's willing to have his government discuss with ours not just issues of lifting the embargo, but issues of human rights, political prisoners, that's a sign of progress,'' Obama said Sunday at a news conference wrapping up the Fifth Summit of the Americas. ``And so we're going to explore and see if we can make some further steps. . . . There are some things that the Cuban government could do.''

Obama spoke to reporters on a sweltering hotel rooftop with a stunning mountainous backdrop, where he defended his policy of courtesy over antagonism and underscored that his administration was not behind an alleged plot to assassinate President Evo Morales of Bolivia.

Obama came under fire for appearing too cozy at the summit with Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez, who was part of a diplomatic full-court press here to urge a change in Cuba policy.

REMITTANCES

After meeting most of his fellow 33 heads of government who make up the Organization of American States, Obama said strides had been made, particularly with Venezuela and Cuba.

Now, he said, Havana must take additional actions if it's serious about improving relations with Washington.

''They could release political prisoners. They could reduce charges on remittances. . . . It turns out that Cuba charges an awful lot; they take a lot off the top,'' Obama said, referring to a total of 20 percent in fees. ``That would be an example of cooperation where both governments are working to help Cuban families and raise standards of living in Cuba.''

Obama noted that he was struck by how many of the leaders at the summit deeply appreciate Cuba's overseas medical brigades. The United States, he said, does not serve its own interests if its only contact with nations is through military and drug interdictions.

``I think that's why it's so important that in our interactions not just here in the hemisphere but around the world, that we recognize that our military power is just one arm of our power, and that we have to use our diplomatic and development aid in more intelligent ways so that people can see very practical, concrete improvements in the lives of ordinary persons as a consequence of U.S. foreign policy.''

Last Monday, Obama lifted the last restriction that kept Cuban Americans from visiting their families on the island more than once a year and limited how much money they could send. At this weekend's summit, leader after leader urged him to do more, such as ending the U.S. trade embargo.

''We all love Cuba here, are friends with Cuba, and hope the United States will be, too,'' Chávez said.

Obama defended his support of the embargo and acknowledged that he spoke against it ''eons ago'' when he was a state senator in 2004.

''The Cuban people are not free,'' Obama said. ``And that's our lodestone, our North Star, when it comes to our policy in Cuba.''

Obama's three-day visit to the region ended on a disappointing note in Port of Spain when only Trinidadian Prime Minister Patrick Manning signed the summit's final declaration.

Several leftist countries, led by Venezuela, refused to sign it because it excluded Cuba and did not adequately address the global economic crisis. Others followed suit, because it was not a unanimous document.

''It would have been much better if all the presidents had signed the final declaration,'' said Edwin Carrington, secretary general of the regional economic bloc Caricom. ``It shows commitment.''

CALLED A SUCCESS

Experts said the summit was a success nonetheless, particularly for Obama. He entered the hemispheric stage Friday under a barrage of tirades about Washington's dubious history in Latin American politics.

Although heavy on symbolism and lighter on concrete results, Obama came out ahead by illustrating that he was willing to listen and be polite to his adversaries, experts said.

''Obama's realism stands out. He is willing to recognize that Cuba wants to talk, and that talks might be worth pursuing,'' said longtime Cuba-watcher Philip Peters, vice president of the Lexington Institute in Virginia. ``He's pointing to a step Cuba could take to get the ball rolling.''

Lowering remittance fees would be easy for Cuba, Peters said, because that exchange-rate policy began as retaliation for former President George W. Bush's decision to limit how much money Cuban Americans could send their relatives.

''The summit had a lot of symbolism, but symbolism that sends a positive message: U.S. national security interests are better met, not with confrontation, but with action,'' said Florida International University's Eduardo Gamarra, who followed the summit closely as a political consultant for Dominican President Leonel Fernández. ``Obama played this very well.''
Miami Herald World Editor John Yearwood contributed to this report.I think there is only a 50-50 % chance of a miracle at best that President Raul will do what President Obama Asks. Democratize Cuba. If not what then? I hope Raul does do what President Obama asks. Time will tell.

Posted on Monday, 04.20.09

President Barack Obama says he's encouraged by recent statements from Cuba's leadership.
* President Barack Obama was asked his reaction to being given a book by Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.
* President Barack Obama says he sees an appreciation among Central American nations of U.S. moves to improve relations with Cuba.
* President Barack Obama expresses optimism about improved relations with Cuba and Venezuela.
* President Barack Obama suggests things Cuba could do to show it's interested in improving relations with the U.S.
* AP White House correspondent Mark Smith reports Venezuela's Hugo Chavez has voiced a desire to send an ambassador back to Washington.

Related Content

* Obama suggests Cuba release political prisoners
* Obama sees positive signs from Venezuela, Cuba
* At summit, Obama gets friendly with Chavez
* At summit, Obama gets friendly with Chavez

By FRANCES ROBLES
frobles@MiamiHerald.com

PORT OF SPAIN, Trinidad -- President Barack Obama sent a clear message Sunday to Cuban leader Raúl Castro: It's your turn.

If Castro wants to start dialogue with the United States, he should release political prisoners and lower the steep fees the Cuban government charges on money sent from abroad, Obama said.

In the meantime, his administration will examine what other steps can be taken toward ending decades of isolation between Washington and the hemisphere's last communist nation.

''The fact that you had Raúl Castro say he's willing to have his government discuss with ours not just issues of lifting the embargo, but issues of human rights, political prisoners, that's a sign of progress,'' Obama said Sunday at a news conference wrapping up the Fifth Summit of the Americas. ``And so we're going to explore and see if we can make some further steps. . . . There are some things that the Cuban government could do.''

Obama spoke to reporters on a sweltering hotel rooftop with a stunning mountainous backdrop, where he defended his policy of courtesy over antagonism and underscored that his administration was not behind an alleged plot to assassinate President Evo Morales of Bolivia.

Obama came under fire for appearing too cozy at the summit with Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez, who was part of a diplomatic full-court press here to urge a change in Cuba policy.

REMITTANCES

After meeting most of his fellow 33 heads of government who make up the Organization of American States, Obama said strides had been made, particularly with Venezuela and Cuba.

Now, he said, Havana must take additional actions if it's serious about improving relations with Washington.

''They could release political prisoners. They could reduce charges on remittances. . . . It turns out that Cuba charges an awful lot; they take a lot off the top,'' Obama said, referring to a total of 20 percent in fees. ``That would be an example of cooperation where both governments are working to help Cuban families and raise standards of living in Cuba.''

Obama noted that he was struck by how many of the leaders at the summit deeply appreciate Cuba's overseas medical brigades. The United States, he said, does not serve its own interests if its only contact with nations is through military and drug interdictions.

``I think that's why it's so important that in our interactions not just here in the hemisphere but around the world, that we recognize that our military power is just one arm of our power, and that we have to use our diplomatic and development aid in more intelligent ways so that people can see very practical, concrete improvements in the lives of ordinary persons as a consequence of U.S. foreign policy.''

Last Monday, Obama lifted the last restriction that kept Cuban Americans from visiting their families on the island more than once a year and limited how much money they could send. At this weekend's summit, leader after leader urged him to do more, such as ending the U.S. trade embargo.

''We all love Cuba here, are friends with Cuba, and hope the United States will be, too,'' Chávez said.

Obama defended his support of the embargo and acknowledged that he spoke against it ''eons ago'' when he was a state senator in 2004.

''The Cuban people are not free,'' Obama said. ``And that's our lodestone, our North Star, when it comes to our policy in Cuba.''

Obama's three-day visit to the region ended on a disappointing note in Port of Spain when only Trinidadian Prime Minister Patrick Manning signed the summit's final declaration.

Several leftist countries, led by Venezuela, refused to sign it because it excluded Cuba and did not adequately address the global economic crisis. Others followed suit, because it was not a unanimous document.

''It would have been much better if all the presidents had signed the final declaration,'' said Edwin Carrington, secretary general of the regional economic bloc Caricom. ``It shows commitment.''

CALLED A SUCCESS

Experts said the summit was a success nonetheless, particularly for Obama. He entered the hemispheric stage Friday under a barrage of tirades about Washington's dubious history in Latin American politics.

Although heavy on symbolism and lighter on concrete results, Obama came out ahead by illustrating that he was willing to listen and be polite to his adversaries, experts said.

''Obama's realism stands out. He is willing to recognize that Cuba wants to talk, and that talks might be worth pursuing,'' said longtime Cuba-watcher Philip Peters, vice president of the Lexington Institute in Virginia. ``He's pointing to a step Cuba could take to get the ball rolling.''

Lowering remittance fees would be easy for Cuba, Peters said, because that exchange-rate policy began as retaliation for former President George W. Bush's decision to limit how much money Cuban Americans could send their relatives.

''The summit had a lot of symbolism, but symbolism that sends a positive message: U.S. national security interests are better met, not with confrontation, but with action,'' said Florida International University's Eduardo Gamarra, who followed the summit closely as a political consultant for Dominican President Leonel Fernández. ``Obama played this very well.''
Miami Herald World Editor John Yearwood contributed to this report.

Even if the embargo was called for, it makes a mockery of US.
This ain't hard folks.
We have an embargo against them, yet Haiti and Nicaragua and other countries we claim to help are poorer than Cuba, the one we have the embargo against.
Every last person on Earth should be asking, "How is the country that the U.S. is helping (has been helping since the 1980's) poorer than the one we have had an embargo against for 55 years?
Nobody should be against ending the embargo, it makes US look bad.

Not a word against the dictatorship. President Obama of all persons is the one calling for President Raul to democratize Cuba.

Once the communists surrender and free elections and human rights are enjoyed by the Cubans, then we should trade with them to our hearts' content.

Once the communists surrender and free elections and human rights are enjoyed by the Cubans, then we should trade with them to our hearts' content.

Or, we could adhere to the principles of the free market capitalism, and trade with them regardless of how free their elections allegedly are.

Why do you hate the free market? Why do you hate freedom?

What have I been saying, change you can believe in not.

Posted on Wednesday, 04.22.09

Fidel Castro: Obama 'misinterpreted' Raul's words
By WILL WEISSERT
Associated Press Writer

HAVANA -- Fidel Castro says President Barack Obama "misinterpreted" his brother Raul's remarks regarding the United States and bristled at the suggestion that Cuba should free political prisoners or cut taxes on remittances from abroad as a goodwill gesture to the U.S.

Raul Castro touched off a whirlwind of speculation last week that the U.S. and Cuba could be headed toward a thaw in nearly a half-century of chilly relations. The speculation began when the Cuban president said leaders would be willing to sit down with their U.S. counterparts and discuss "everything," including human rights, freedom of the press and expression, and political prisoners on the island.

Obama responded at the Summit of the Americas by saying Washington seeks a new beginning with Cuba, but he also said Sunday that Cuba should release some political prisoners and reduce official taxes on remittances sent to the island from the U.S.

That appeared to enrage Fidel Castro, 82, who wrote in an essay posted on a government Web site that Obama "without a doubt misinterpreted Raul's declarations."

The former president appeared to be throwing a dose of cold water on growing expectations for improved bilateral relations - suggesting Obama had no right to dare suggest that Cuba make even small concessions. He also seemed to suggest too much was being made of Raul's comments about discussing "everything" with U.S. authorities.

"Affirming that the president of Cuba is ready to discuss any topic with the president of the United States expresses that he's not afraid to broach any subject," Fidel Castro wrote of his 77-year-old brother, who succeeded him as president 14 months ago.

"It's a sign of bravery and confidence in the principles of the revolution," he said, referring to the rebel uprising that toppled dictator Fulgencio Batista and brought the Castros to power on New Year's Day 1959.

"Nobody should assume (correction, astonished actually, bad translation by translator) that he was talking about pardoning those sentenced in March 2003 and sending all of them to the United States, if the country were willing to liberate the five Cuban anti-terrorist heroes," Castro wrote.

He was referring to 75 leading political opposition leaders who were rounded up and imprisoned six years ago. Some 54 of them remain behind bars, though Raul Castro suggested last year that Cuba would be willing to liberate some political prisoners if U.S. authorities would free five Cuban spies.

Castro compared the prisoners arrested in 2003 to exiles who attacked the island's southern coast during the disastrous Bay of Pigs invasion in 1961 and said they were "at the service of a foreign power that threatens and blockades our country," referring to charges they conspired with Washington to destabilize the communist system.

The ex-president had previously expressed his admiration for Obama, but this time Castro blasted the new U.S. president for showing signs of "superficiality."

He also defended Cuba's right to levy a 10 percent fee on every U.S. dollar sent to relatives on the island by Cuban-Americans, saying if the money arriving from abroad "is in dollars, all the more reason we should do it because it is the currency of the country that blockades us."

All top Cuban leaders routinely call the 47-year-old trade embargo against this country a blockade.

"Not all Cubans have family members overseas that send remittances," Castro said, adding that Cuba uses the revenue from fees on exchanging dollars to provide free health care, education and subsidized food to all of its population.

The European Union constructive engagement with the Cuban dictatorship elite has also failed.
Failed for whom?

The average life expectancy in Cuba is similar to Western nations across the world. (source (http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa042000b.htm))

The subjective happiness rating in Cuba is similar to Greece, France and Japan (source (http://www.samirkamble.com/worlds-happiness-meter/))


Both of these are MUCH MUCH better than in, say, the capitalist Haiti which AFAIK isn't embargoed by any nation.


I personally think the embargo of Cuba by the US still exists because of appeasing voter demographic (more people are against lifting or ambivalent than for lifting) rather than any rational reason.

From the perspective of quality of life - which, really, is the only meter that matters - embargo is hurting the people of Cuba more than free(er) relations, therefore the embargo should stop.

Ask (tell) my family members still in Cuba. Ask (tell) my family member who recently legally emigrated to the USA. Whose family still in Cuba wishes to emigrate from that so called democratic socialist island paradise you seem to admire so much. Dont blame it on the evil American embargo. The Cuban dictatorship government for life trades with many nations of the world. Even buys agricultural products on a cash basis from the USA. Recieves family remittances $, care packages, aspirins from Cuban Americans.

Failed for whom?

The average life expectancy in Cuba is similar to Western nations across the world. (source (http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa042000b.htm))

The subjective happiness rating in Cuba is similar to Greece, France and Japan (source (http://www.samirkamble.com/worlds-happiness-meter/))


Both of these are MUCH MUCH better than in, say, the capitalist Haiti which AFAIK isn't embargoed by any nation.


I personally think the embargo of Cuba by the US still exists because of appeasing voter demographic (more people are against lifting or ambivalent than for lifting) rather than any rational reason.

From the perspective of quality of life - which, really, is the only meter that matters - embargo is hurting the people of Cuba more than free(er) relations, therefore the embargo should stop.

Failed for whom?

The average life expectancy in Cuba is similar to Western nations across the world. (source (http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa042000b.htm))

The subjective happiness rating in Cuba is similar to Greece, France and Japan (source (http://www.samirkamble.com/worlds-happiness-meter/))


Both of these are MUCH MUCH better than in, say, the capitalist Haiti which AFAIK isn't embargoed by any nation.


I personally think the embargo of Cuba by the US still exists because of appeasing voter demographic (more people are against lifting or ambivalent than for lifting) rather than any rational reason.

From the perspective of quality of life - which, really, is the only meter that matters - embargo is hurting the people of Cuba more than free(er) relations, therefore the embargo should stop.

We have free trade with Haiti and Haiti economy is horrendous.
We have an embargo and Cuba's economy is not so bad.

Seems the embargo helps Cuba. For the good of Cuba, no trade.

We have free trade with Haiti and Haiti economy is horrendous.
We have an embargo and Cuba's economy is not so bad.

Seems the embargo helps Cuba. For the good of Cuba, no trade.

I see you did not read or understand every word I posted.

I see you did not read or understand every word I posted.

That Fidel and Raul are playing good dictator, bad dictator with the US?


And why can't i make a joke ? We can't change the country from these forums. Anyone who can change the world likely doesn't do it here.

That Fidel and Raul are playing good dictator, bad dictator with the US

Lol, my apology Greed and Death I could not have posted it better myself.

And why can't i make a joke ? We can't change the country from these forums. Anyone who can change the world likely doesn't do it here.

Your post sounds like no joke my friend.

Your post sounds like no joke my friend.

Viva Cuba my friend. Just lose the crazy brothers.

That Fidel and Raul are playing good dictator, bad dictator with the US?


And why can't i make a joke ? We can't change the country from these forums. Anyone who can change the world likely doesn't do it here.

Obama reads these forums. :)

Obama reads these forums. :)

word on the street is KOL is obama

Those darn crazy Cuban Americans like myself are at it again.

The music of Gloria Estefan and Celia Cruz is not political. Our beloved late Celia Cruz once Performed in Guantanamo Bay Cuba because the Cuban government banned her music in Cuba.

Loud speakers were placed at the entrance to the base. Her performance was broadcast to cuba. The Cuban government of Fidel and Raul did thier best to block the signals.

Celia Pleaded many times with our so called hispanic brother presidents to treat Fidel like a dictator. They applauded her performances and ignored her pleas. They treaded Fidel like a friend. Called Fidel thier friend. The same Fidel who often insulted them and thier nations. Most of those Presidents are former presidents today due to term limits and time.

Cuban government bands perform to Cuban Americans and others in the USA who love thier music. Bands Like Los Van Van and others like los Bonbon. Some Cuban Americans peacefully protest but the bands perform.

Cuban singers like Gloria Estefan are not allowed in Cuba. If the Cuban government wants real cultural exchange let Cuban government bands perform in Miami as they do. Let Gloria estafan sing in Cuba as they dont.

Long time ago thier was an olympic game where Gloria Estefan was the honored star. The Cuban government protested, a fight broke out between Cuban government agents and Cuban Americans. Sorry I cant provide the link but it happend, it was long ago.

Granted many of Willy Chirino's music is anti Fidel like Ya Viene LLegando (Already Coming). Granted he knows the Cuban government will probably not allow his concert no matter what songs he performs.

Its his way to show the world the intransigence of the Cuban government.

He is being critized and supported by many in the Cuban American community. The reason being because they know or feel the intransigence of the Cuban government. Many say he should know better. Many say challenge the government and prove it to the world.

Those Crazy Cuban Americans like myself.

I understand why he is doing it. Even As Iknow it wont be allowed. His Cuban American fans will ask for those kinds of songs as well as non political ones. To the Cuban American community it is not a political issue even if the song is political in nature. As it is anti Fidel. I understand those who support him, those who oppose him. I met him personally at a concert in Miami he performed in once. He is a nice Dude. It was an honor to meet him personally. He was awesome, we gave him a standing ovation.

Recently I have often stated the Cuban American community is crazy because of the world support of leaders of the worlds nations for dictators Fidel and Raul whatever thier reasons. That is a true statement. I am part of that community I know (our) thier feelings.

Recently President Raul stated he is willing to talk about all subjects. Releasing Cuban political prisoners, political rights, ect, ect. Now Fidel say President Obama misinterpreted Raul's words. No concessions of any kind. As Greed and Death says. Raul and Fidel are playing good dictator, bad dictator. Those are the kinds of people the world is dealing with. Read some my posts for more reference.

Then the world wonders why those darn crazy Cuban Americans like myself say and do the darnest things in the Que Pasa USA? TV Show. Feel the way they do. Que Pasa USA? TV Show claims to be the first hispanic and Cuban American bilingual situation comedy. About a tipical Cuban American family in Miami and Hialeah. Its funny to us Cubans. Stars a young Rocky Echevarria - Steven Bauer of Scarface fame.

Wikipedia Links: Part of Wikipedia Link.

http://www.quepasausa.org/

Wikipedia Link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C2%BFQu%C3%A9_Pasa,_USA%3F

--------------------------------------------

Willy Chirino Article.

Posted on Thursday, 04.23.09

Salsa singer Willy Chirino challenges Cuba to broadcast concert
Singer Willy Chirino challenged the Cuban government to permit exile music to flow on the island -- and to broadcast his Miami concert.
By TRENTON DANIEL
tdaniel@MiamiHerald.com

Cuban-American singer Willy Chirino made an appeal to Cuban President Raúl Castro on Wednesday: Let my music and that of other Cuban Americans flow -- uninterrupted -- to the island.

''I call on you to stop being an impediment and allow Cubans on the island to freely enjoy the fruits of the Cuban artistic community,'' Chirino said in a statement at the AmericanAirlines Arena.

Chirino then challenged the Cuban government to broadcast his upcoming Miami concert in Havana, at a park along the famed seaside Malecón -- and even offered to pay all costs related to sending a satellite feed. The broadcast in Havana, he added, should be free and open to all islanders.

Chirino's message comes a week after the Obama administration eliminated restrictions on remittances and travel to Cuba for people with family on the island. At the recent Fifth Summit of the Americas in Port of Spain, Trinidad, Obama also urged Castro to free political prisoners and reduce fees on cash transfers sent from the United States.

Raúl Castro has said he would be willing to talk about ''everything'' with the Obama administration, though his older brother Fidel Castro, who ceded power to Raúl in 2006, wrote in a column this week that Obama had ''misinterpreted'' Raúl's comments.

In his news conference Wednesday, Chirino said he had delivered his message earlier in the day to the Cuban Interests Section in Washington, D.C. in a letter. He gave Cuban officials until April 30 to respond.

''The ball's in your court,'' Chirino said. ``It's time for you to act.''

In some of his songs, which are officially banned on the island yet popular among salsa lovers, Chirino calls for freedom in Cuba: songs such as Viva La Libertad (Long Live Freedom) and Ya Viene LLegando (Already Coming).

The singer has long been critical of the Castro regime.

Asked by a reporter if he thought the Cuban government would view such songs as a threat, Chirino said he couldn't understand why. Chirino added that he would not be willing to compromise the content of his songs.

The singer first came to Miami during Operation Pedro Pan, among 14,000 children who left Cuba between 1960 and 1962. Catholic Church agencies put the kids in childrens camps and foster homes until their parents could join them.