NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.ada.gov/pubs/ada.htm
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c105:H.R.1330: What's that? A lawa about AMERICAN FAMILY PRIVACY?
https://www.cia.gov/ Oh, look at their seal. United States OF AMERICA.
Older Americans Act (AoA)

Whoa..... so like, our LAWS refer to us as Americans....
And like, the LAWS are legal documents...

And like, these LAWS don't apply to persons living on the North, Central, or South American continents UNLESS they happen to live in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Please stop with the silly idea that "America" is not a part of the formal name of the country, Gravlen.

it calls itself america because it wants to have a one word name. conventional is the keyword. conventional seems to mean international. it's the internet people and it's an americanism according to my dictionary to call the country america. british people use it sometimes, though. i saw in a magazine something from a sign in britain. the sign said "Come home, America. All is forgiven."

There is a difference beteween what you call the country and the people from that country.

It is common to call the country USA or US, but not so common to call the people USAians or something like that. Then you use americans.

So can I start referring to the Dutch as Nether People?
Is that what they prefer?

I don't get annoyed by that. That'd be hypocritical, considering I think it's unfathomably stupid that you're annoyed by USian.



Why are you under the illusion that you get a choice here? You do not dictate language, convention dictates language. If convention shifts to using USian, then that's what you'll be called. There is no choice here, stop kidding yourself.
Ok. Then you are Wad of Gum. Because you don't have a choice. Stop kidding yourself.

That's only true for people within the U.S., it's not universally understood.
Didn't the poster from Sweden just tell you so?

Please stop with the silly idea that "America" is not a part of the formal name of the country, Gravlen.

has anyone denied that it is? that would be dumb. the denial is that 'america' and 'american' by themselves are anything more than colloquial. nothing prevents congress from engaging in colloquialism, any more than they are prevented from giving things utterly misleading titles like 'clear skies act'.

and my further point is that we only wound up with those because we never actually named the country, just shortened the geographic descriptor we started out with for the collection of named places. this is why the official short form name for here is just the part of the name that in any other country would be considered an irrelevant descriptor.

should have grabbed columbia when we had the chance. too late now, though.

It is common to call the country USA or US, but not so common to call the people USAians or something like that. Then you use americans.

not if we have our way. isn't language fun?

not if we have our way. isn't language fun?

Yeah, but then you would have to able to give an advantage to calling americans USians. For me americans forms easier in my mouth then USians and people will understand me better so why should I change?

While your at it you might make people stop calling a banana and instead call it apples and make people call apples bananas.

the denial is that 'america' and 'american' by themselves are anything more than colloquial.

Eh? American and American might not be the super duper formal names, but it's they are not colloquialisms either. That's silly.

doesn't work, because mexico is the name of the country, while the name of this country is the united states. basically, you are confusing which part of the long form name is relevant.
No, I really am not. That's why every state of the union speech of every president begins, "My Fellow Americans." He's not talking to the Canadians, Mexicans, Guatemalans, Brazilians, or any other nationality, no matter how wonderful these peoples are.

That's why there is a Americans with Disabilities Act.
And that's why there is an American Family Privacy Act.

Because we're Americans. Despite the stubborn insistence that we are not, or that because other people reside on the same continent, that everyone in the world is somehow too stupid to understand that there are American citizens, and denizens of the Americas. Obviously, Sweden and Germany have managed to make this incredible leap of intelligence and can refer to the citizens of the United States of America as Americans without suffering from a nervous breakdown or Hulu-esque brain-pudding episode, according to our own posters. Obviously, when you refer to Americans, people know what you mean. Surely the insult "Ugly American" isn't meant to refer to Canadians, Mexicans, Guatemalans, San Salvadorians, Argentinians, and Brazilians?

I should have thought that the rest of the world was capable of this very simple concept as well. Or rather, I should have thought that all Nationstates posters were capable of this very simple concept.

My mistake.

has anyone denied that it is? that would be dumb. the denial is that 'america' and 'american' by themselves are anything more than colloquial. nothing prevents congress from engaging in colloquialism, any more than they are prevented from giving things utterly misleading titles like 'clear skies act'.

and my further point is that we only wound up with those because we never actually named the country, just shortened the geographic descriptor we started out with for the collection of named places. this is why the official short form name for here is just the part of the name that in any other country would be considered an irrelevant descriptor.

should have grabbed columbia when we had the chance. too late now, though.
Colombians may have had issue with that, then.

Why are you under the illusion that you get a choice here? You do not dictate language, convention dictates language. If convention shifts to using USian, then that's what you'll be called. There is no choice here, stop kidding yourself.

Right, so if I started a convention of calling you Fuckstick McDouchebag, and it caught on, you'd have no say in the matter; that'd be your new name. Right?

No, I really am not. That's why every state of the union speech of every president begins, "My Fellow Americans." He's not talking to the Canadians, Mexicans, Guatemalans, Brazilians, or any other nationality, no matter how wonderful these peoples are.

That's why there is a Americans with Disabilities Act.
And that's why there is an American Family Privacy Act.

Because we're Americans. Despite the stubborn insistence that we are not, or that because other people reside on the same continent, that everyone in the world is somehow too stupid to understand that there are American citizens, and denizens of the Americas. Obviously, Sweden and Germany have managed to make this incredible leap of intelligence and can refer to the citizens of the United States of America as Americans without suffering from a nervous breakdown or Hulu-esque brain-pudding episode, according to our own posters. Obviously, when you refer to Americans, people know what you mean. Surely the insult "Ugly American" isn't meant to refer to Canadians, Mexicans, Guatemalans, San Salvadorians, Argentinians, and Brazilians?

I should have thought that the rest of the world was capable of this very simple concept as well. Or rather, I should have thought that all Nationstates posters were capable of this very simple concept.

My mistake.

i don't recall claiming that nobody knows who is referred to when someone says 'americans'. that would be stupid.

Colombians may have had issue with that, then.

we had first crack at it, and it actually had some traction early on. that's why so many things are named columbia here. but it died and got picked up by one of the revolutionaries we (and the french) inspired, who exported it to the spanish colonies.

I wonder if this thread is going to be longer than the last one we did like this.

I wonder if this thread is going to be longer than the last one we did like this.

go for the gold!

Right, so if I started a convention of calling you Fuckstick McDouchebag, and it caught on, you'd have no say in the matter; that'd be your new name. Right?

That would be the name I was known as, yes. I'd have no say in convention, what I choose to call myself is irrelevant in that context. Just like you have no say in what I choose to call you. You can't dictate language.

You're all being ridiculous. I really do not understand why you're all getting so worked up about something as irrelevant as this. Is it pride? If so, it's severely misplaced.

In sweden it is, we call them "amerikaner" (no need to translate that...) not "people from USA". I have never heard anyone from any other place call them anything else then "americans" either, and I have been in a lot of places.
And in South America and Mexico people from the US are referred to as estadounidense: People from the United States. I didn't say it wasn't true anywhere outside the US, Western Europe understands the coloquialism as well. But there are huge swaths of the planet that don't have it.
Is that what they prefer?
No, however Candadians, Mexicans and the people who live in South America prefer to not be lumped in with people from the US either.


Didn't the poster from Sweden just tell you so?
And in Norway I'm amerikansk. In South America, Mexico Puerto Rico, ect I'm a United Statesean.

And in Norway I'm amerikansk. In South America, Mexico Puerto Rico, ect I'm a United Statesean.

Do the Puertoricans call themselves United Statesians?

How about we call ourselves Stateists. Rhymes with eliteists, and goes well with the permanent left-wing majority we're building.

And like, these LAWS don't apply to persons living on the North, Central, or South American continents UNLESS they happen to live in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Please stop with the silly idea that "America" is not a part of the formal name of the country, Gravlen.

I haven't said that, and it's really not my fault that you can't understand my argument. It was pretty clear:

I've said repeatedly that it's the United States of America, or the United States. It is not simply America - as is evident on the seal as I've posted before. And all of the official parts of government. America, singularly, is not used by the US government to describe the United States of America.

That someone names a law something isn't relevant. The Patriot act isn't patriotic by definition, nor does it mean that the US is a generally patriotic country. Lawmakers can call the laws anything, because the name of the act has no legal significance. Rather, if you examine the "Americans with Disabilities act" you'll find that it states, among other things:

United States Code.

(B) Exceptions

The term "employer" does not include

(i) the United States, a corporation wholly owned by the government of the United States, or an Indian tribe; or
Not "America" nor "the government of America".

It continues to refer to "the Constitution of the United States", and also:
Sec. 12205. Attorney's fees

In any action or administrative proceeding commenced pursuant to this chapter, the court or agency, in its discretion, may allow the prevailing party, other than the United States, a reasonable attorney's fee, including litigation expenses, and costs, and the United States shall be liable for the foregoing the same as a private individual.
No "America" there.

(1) In general

In order to carry out the purposes established under section 151 of this title, to make available to all individuals in the United States a rapid, efficient nationwide communication service, and to increase the utility of the telephone system of the Nation, the Commission shall ensure that interstate and intrastate telecommunications relay services are available, to the extent possible and in the most efficient manner, to hearing-impaired and speech-impaired individuals in the United States.
No "America" there.

To be fair, it does include
(B) Exception

This section shall not apply with respect to the foreign operations of an employer that is a foreign person not controlled by an American employer.
But that's not a reference to the nation name, as are the others.

The American Families Privacy Act never mentions America singularly, but says:
(2) OBTAINING INFORMATION- The Commission may secure directly from any department or agency of the United States information necessary to enable it to carry out this Act.
(3) IMMUNITY- The Commission is an agency of the United States for purposes of part V of title 18, United States Code (relating to immunity of witnesses).
(B) Members of the Commission who are full-time officers or employees of the United States may not receive additional pay, allowances, or benefits by reason of their service on the Commission.
America is never used alone in this act. The United States is used again and again.

So go back and re-read my posts, and try again.

Do the Puertoricans call themselves United Statesians?

How about we call ourselves Stateists. Rhymes with eliteists, and goes well with the permanent left-wing majority we're building.

They are a Common Wealth, not a US state. They don't get a vote or representation in our government so no. They refer to themselves as Puerto Ricans, recognize the governer as the highest office in the land, but recognize there is a relationship between the US and themselves. They will, however, refer to their relatives born and raised in the USA as estadounidense.

The term "United States of" is not the actual name of the country, it's the preface. "America" is the actual name of the country, so America is what it should be called.
No, you are confusing them. The name of the country is America, not the United States.

Can you prove it? Because, so far, all the official government websites I've seen disagree with you.

Do the Puertoricans call themselves United Statesians?

i don't know if those advocating statehood say anything different for political reasons, but normally it is puertorriqueño and boricua. of course, we do the same thing, as illinoisians/chicagoans and utahns and whatnot.

You know, you all could actually use a dictionary to settle this.

i don't know if those advocating statehood say anything different for political reasons, but normally it is puertorriqueño and boricua. of course, we do the same thing, as illinoisians/chicagoans and utahns and whatnot.

I think it's borinqueños. It's been forever since I've lived there, however, so I could be mistaken

Can you prove it? Because, so far, all the official government websites I've seen disagree with you.

hell, i'd even be interested to see a published map that actually labeled here as 'america' rather than the standard 'USA', 'US', or 'united states of america'. it must have been done at some point, but i can't recall ever having seen one.

You know, you all could actually use a dictionary to settle this.

not when the objective is to change the language. description versus prescription and all that.

I think it's borinqueños. It's been forever since I've lived there, however, so I could be mistaken

that may be right. plausible at least. quick, to the internet!

Shoulda just named it "Columbia" and nipped this in the bud...

Wasnt for those Damned Conservatives not wantin to change the name...

not when the objective is to change the language. description versus prescription and all that.

Right.

So you are actually talking about what you think it ought to be, not what it actually is.

Well good luck with the project. You might even get USian in the dictionary (though no doubt it will be followed by n. colloq.)

On the other hand, as of this moment, Citizens of the United States are properly called Americans, not USians, and it is perfectly acceptable to refer to the country as America. (Like the National Park Service does when talking about the Civil War).

Glad we cleared that up.

I don't get annoyed by that. That'd be hypocritical, considering I think it's unfathomably stupid that you're annoyed by USian.

That's ok wanker. It's unfathomably stupid that you don't understand.

Why are you under the illusion that you get a choice here? You do not dictate language, convention dictates language.

:D You really don't matter.

If convention shifts to using USian, then that's what you'll be called. There is no choice here, stop kidding yourself.

Again you assume you matter.

Again when the Canadians and Mexicans want to be called Americans; then there can be a discussion.

That would be the name I was known as, yes. I'd have no say in convention, what I choose to call myself is irrelevant in that context. Just like you have no say in what I choose to call you. You can't dictate language.


:D :D You really don't have a clue wanker. People dictate language all the time.

That's ok wanker. It's unfathomably stupid that you don't understand.



:D You really don't matter.



Again you assume you matter.

Again when the Canadians and Mexicans want to be called Americans; then there can be a discussion.

It's telling that you resort to flaming instead of actually answering my questions.

It's telling that you resort to flaming instead of actually answering my questions.

Thats for Wankers and Squares, duh....

USians, *shakes Head* :p

It's telling that you resort to flaming instead of actually answering my questions.

Ahh so your opinions do matter in what people call you.

Glad you agree.

Ahh so your opinions do matter in what people call you.

Glad you agree.

You are assuming that people use USian as an insult.

You are assuming that people use USian as an insult.

Well, I wouldnt say that it is necessarily used as an insult per se...


But, I believe its well known to be used as Flamebait...

You are assuming that people use USian as an insult.

ah, but who has the right to say when a word is an Insult?

the person using it?

or the person who hears it?

Well, I wouldnt say that it is necessarily used as an insult per se...


But, I believe its well known to be used as Flamebait...

By those who intend to flamebait, perhaps. The word itself is not neccessarily an insult.

That's ok wanker. It's unfathomably stupid that you don't understand.

:D You really don't matter.

Again you assume you matter.

Again when the Canadians and Mexicans want to be called Americans; then there can be a discussion.

:D :D You really don't have a clue wanker. People dictate language all the time.

I typically expect newbies to break the rules, not those who have been around long enough to understand what flaming is, and that you attack the post and not the poster... et cetera. I know what it means and there is no reason for using it. A smiley does not exempt you from enforcement. Warned for flaming.

ah, but who has the right to say when a word is an Insult?

the person using it?

or the person who hears it?

Here? I'd say the Mods. And the word 'wanker' is simply flaming.

Why has nobody asked the other peoples of the Americas what they think of this? It's supposedly for them, after all.

Why has nobody asked the other peoples of the Americas what they think of this? It's supposedly for them, after all.

Well, one poster has weighed in on this....Although she's confusing as she doesnt want to be American but wants the term used for her......

Or something...

Also, for the record I have no real opinion on this matter. I don't care much for the term myself because I think it looks ugly, but I fail to see why Americans get so worked up about it.

Well, I wouldnt say that it is necessarily used as an insult per se...

But, I believe its well known to be used as Flamebait...

but that is only possible since certain sectors paint giant fucking signs on themselves that read 'i am easily trolled'. lots of perfectly innocuous things can be used to set of such.

I fail to see why Americans get so worked up about it.

we don't. speaking, as i do, for all USians, i likes it.

we don't. speaking, as i do, for all USians, i likes it.

Well, some do, as evidenced by the length of this thread! It just seems like such a non-issue that, frankly, I find it bizarre that rational people would take offence over it.

Here? I'd say the Mods. And the word 'wanker' is simply flaming.True, but technically...

Limey isn't.

Neither is Pommy, Brit, Britisher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_names_for_the_British)

we don't. speaking, as i do, for all USians, i likes it.

it's a personal thing. not a nationalist thing.

it's like some people prefer black coffee over coffee with cream.

Also, for the record I have no real opinion on this matter. I don't care much for the term myself because I think it looks ugly, but I fail to see why Americans get so worked up about it.

Well, Ill go on record for as to why I think Americans get upset about it...

For one, USians has nothing to do with the United States of America, and isnt representative of our people, yet it seems Non-American members want to force it on us, despite our constant protests...

As well, there is seemingly nothing we can do about it without mod support in the matter, which causes many to resort to over the top reactions...

Allowing those who take delight in such reactions to use it without retribution...


just my opinion on the subject though...

but that is only possible since certain sectors paint giant fucking signs on themselves that read 'i am easily trolled'. lots of perfectly innocuous things can be used to set of such.

True, but, just the phrase "Americans get so worked up over it" seems to imply that we all "paint giant fucking signs" on ourselves...

Which is, I think, a subset of why people dislike the term, it makes us look bad...

well, Worse I should say :rolleyes:...

Well, Ill go on record for as to why I think Americans get upset about it...

For one, USians has nothing to do with the United States of America, and isnt representative of our people, yet it seems Non-American members want to force it on us, despite our constant protests... Maybe... but also from the wiki source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_words_for_American)that many who favor the use of USian's use and conviently overlook.
International speakers of English refer to people from the United States as "Americans"

Several English alternatives for "American" have been used or suggested over time, of which the most common is Usonian, popularized by Frank Lloyd Wright.[14] H. L. Mencken collected a number of alternate terms from between 1789 and 1939 for the December 1947 issue of American Speech; according to Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage, the list includes, in relative historical sequence, "such terms as Columbian, Columbard, Fredonian, Frede, Unisian, United Statesian, Colonican, Appalacian, Usian, Washingtonian, Usonian, Uessian, U-S-ian, Uesican, United Stater."[15] Nevertheless, with the exception of "United States" or "U.S. citizen", no alternative to "American" is common.[16]


So the best alternative would be U.S. Citizen. Which I think everyone who hates "USian" would agree to as an appropriate alternative.

As well, there is seemingly nothing we can do about it without mod support in the matter, which causes many to resort to over the top reactions...

Allowing those who take delight in such reactions to use it without retribution...

just my opinion on the subject though...True. as long as they don't see any problem with it...

Wow. Many pages. I'm...both surprised and not surprised.

I don't usually post, but seeing this topic- it got me mad enough to want to comment.

As a natural born citizen of the United States of America, I vehemently oppose any attempts to redefine our nationality. I identify with the term 'American' and most definitely do not identify with 'US-ian' or 'United Statian' nor any other such idiotic nonsense proposed. If anything calling us any of that is an insult and a mockery to my nation. Foreigners that are offended by us being called Americans be damned.

The reason why citizens of the United States are referred to as 'Americans' internationally is to signify the United States of America as being the first country in the western hemisphere to rebel and gain independence from colonial rule by a European power.

We have been known as Americans for over 200 years and that is not going to change. We don't care. I and most of my fellow Americans will continue to be call ourselves American and will be known as such regardless of what internationalist fools want.

POTUS, not POTA.
SCOTUS, not SCOTUSA.
United States Attorney General
US State dep.
United States Department of Justice.
US Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services - you know, the people who make people US citizens

Example (http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=96719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD&vgnextchannel=96719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD)
US courts, US district courts, US court of appeals...
US army, US airforce, US navy...

CIA world factbook:


"America" is suspiciously absent from the official titles and names mentioned above (and many more, probably.) Yet the people are commonly known as Americans, for some reason.
Fail.

For using the CIA as a source against the term American to refer to Americans when the CIA (world fact book) clearly states:

Nationality:
noun: American(s)
adjective: American

and the CIA seal itself uses the term United States of America:

http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/tom-keating/images/cia-seal.jpg

Except you guys use African-American to refer to people whose ancestral connection to Africa is long forgotten.
Personally, no, I don't. I say "black".
I always thought it weird to call actual people from Africa African-American too.
Weird isn't the word for it, moronic is.

Personally, no, I don't. I say "black".

Weird isn't the word for it, moronic is.

Seriously, I refuse to call myself Caucasian either....

I have no connection to the Caucuses....

Oh, my. If a thread's success is measured by the number of posts, this is by far the most successful thread I've ever started. That the topic is so banal is somewhat depressing . . . :$

Oh, my. If a thread's success is measured by the number of posts, this is by far the most successful thread I've ever started. That the topic is so banal is somewhat depressing . . . :$


gigidy :p

Oh, my. If a thread's success is measured by the number of posts, this is by far the most successful thread I've ever started. That the topic is so banal is somewhat depressing . . . :$

your topic touches on something that cannot be defined by any legal document. it's all personal preference.

like religion.

I don't usually post, but seeing this topic- it got me mad enough to want to comment.

As a natural born citizen of the United States of America, I vehemently oppose any attempts to redefine our nationality. I identify with the term 'American' and most definitely do not identify with 'US-ian' or 'United Statian' nor any other such idiotic nonsense proposed. If anything calling us any of that is an insult and a mockery to my nation. Foreigners that are offended by us being called Americans be damned.

The reason why citizens of the United States are referred to as 'Americans' internationally is to signify the United States of America as being the first country in the western hemisphere to rebel and gain independence from colonial rule by a European power.

We have been known as Americans for over 200 years and that is not going to change. We don't care. I and most of my fellow Americans will continue to be call ourselves American and will be known as such regardless of what internationalist fools want.

Except the Spanish-speaking countries of the world who call us United Stateseans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_words_for_American

facepalm.jpg

I typically expect newbies to break the rules, not those who have been around long enough to understand what flaming is, and that you attack the post and not the poster... et cetera. I know what it means and there is no reason for using it. A smiley does not exempt you from enforcement. Warned for flaming.

Lol, wow.

Kryozerkia demonstrates exactly what I was talking about the whole time in one post.

Fail.

For using the CIA as a source against the term American to refer to Americans when the CIA (world fact book) clearly states:

Nationality:
noun: American(s)
adjective: American

and the CIA seal itself uses the term United States of America:

http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/tom-keating/images/cia-seal.jpg

Fail, for evidently not bothering to actually read my post.

I'm talking about the name of the country itself. The name of the country is "United States of America" or "The United States" - it is not "America". The point I made was exactly that the people living in said country are known as "Americans" - you even quoted that part yourself, and how you overlooked it I'll never know - yet that's not the name of the country. It is for the continent though, and for some strange reason "American" has become synonymous with "citizens of the United States (of America)".

So to sum up for those having difficulties:

Name of country =/= America.
Name of country = The United States or The United States of America.
Inhabitans colloquially known as Americans.

Seriously, I've written this explicitly in at least three posts, why is it so hard to understand?

Except the Spanish-speaking countries of the world who call us United Stateseans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_words_for_American

facepalm.jpg

from your link.
Nevertheless, with the exception of "United States" or "U.S. citizen", no alternative to "American" is common.

It is shorter. We could use it. Just don't call me late for dinner.

Why has nobody asked the other peoples of the Americas what they think of this? It's supposedly for them, after all.Probably because many of us have already expressed our opinion on the matter. I know I would prefer to have American as a descriptor for those who come from the Americas, and have a separate term for those who come from the US.Obviously, it is not that simple and causes some debate. Fail....and the CIA seal itself uses the term United States of America:...I would suggest rereading Gravlen's posts, but since he has repeated himself for you, you could simply read his subsequent post carefully.

Probably because many of us have already expressed our opinion on the matter. I know I would prefer to have American as a descriptor for those who come from the Americas, and have a separate term for those who come from the US.Obviously, it is not that simple and causes some debate.

"The use of America for the United States & American for (citizen) of the U.S. ... will continue to be protested against by purists & patriots, & will undoubtedly survive those protests"

- H. W. Fowler, 1926

from your link.

...

Within the English laguage. So within the US, UK, Austrailia, New Zeland, ect. It's also offensive to the rest of the inabitants of the two American continents.

Let's look at the whole quote:
All forms of English refer to these people as "Americans", derived from "The United States of America"
Which I've never said was false, I said it was a colloquialism.

but there is some linguistic ambiguity over this due to the other senses of the word American, which can also refer to people from the Americas in general.
Which is what our neighbors to the north have beef with. They are, afterall, Americans too.

Many other languages use cognates of "American" to refer to people from the United States, but others, particularly Spanish, primarily use terms derived from "United States".
So American isn't understood to be "US citizen" in these countries.

There are various other local and colloquial names for the Americans.
And the Canadians, Mexicans and South Americans would kindly like us to find one that doesn't lump them in with us.

And the Canadians, Mexicans and South Americans would kindly like us to find one that doesn't lump them in with us.

There you go, No one will think you mean people from the United States...

There you go, No one will think you mean people from the United States...

But they are American too. As has been pointed out more times than I can count. Don't forget, South Americans think that the Americas are one continent and not two. So they are just Americans as well.

That's like referring to people of the EU, specifically, as Europeans. It's kind of insulting to the Europeans who reside outside the EU, no?

There you go, No one will think you mean people from the United States...What would you call someone who was all three?

But they are American too. As has been pointed out more times than I can count. Don't forget, South Americans think that the Americas are one continent and not two. So they are just Americans as well.

That's like referring to people of the EU, specifically, as Europeans. It's kind of insulting to the Europeans who reside outside the EU, no?

Well, you see, there is no "United States of Europe" and if there was, I would have no problem calling them Europeans...

the EU is not a Country, and is not recognized as such, therefore cant be used as anyone's nationality, or even a place of birth...

Your analogy is made of fail...

And just because your country is located on a geographic location, doesnt mean that you use its nationality...

And if you think it does, tell someone from the Republic of Ireland theyre British and see what happens to you...

What would you call someone who was all three?

Whatever he or she wishes to be called

Well, you see, there is no "United States of Europe" and if there was, I would have no problem calling them Europeans...

the EU is not a Country, and is not recognized as such, therefore cant be used as anyone's nationality, or even a place of birth...

Your analogy is made of fail...
No it's not.

I've seen plenty of posters say "European" in a thread about something the EU has done.

And just because your country is located on a geographic location, doesnt mean that you use its nationality...

And if you think it does, tell someone from the Republic of Ireland theyre British and see what happens to you...

Unless you're shit at geography and can't tell the difference between two different islands.

No it's not.

I've seen plenty of posters say "European" in a thread about something the EU has done.



Unless you're shit at geography and can't tell the difference between two different islands.

Not in reference to a Nationality, in reference to the European Union...


And, the same could be said for those who are shit at geography and cant tell the difference between a Country and a Continent...

Also, this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles

The British Isles are a group of islands off the northwest coast of continental Europe that include Great Britain and Ireland, and numerous smaller islands.[7] There are two sovereign states located on the islands: the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and Ireland.[8]

I typically expect newbies to break the rules, not those who have been around long enough to understand what flaming is, and that you attack the post and not the poster... et cetera. I know what it means and there is no reason for using it. A smiley does not exempt you from enforcement. Warned for flaming.

Eh? Where I'm from wanker is also a term of endearment. Granted it's a colloquialism, but not really offensive in anyway. I rule this ruling wrong.

.


And the Canadians, Mexicans and South Americans would kindly like us to find one that doesn't lump them in with us.

Might be easier to rename to continent.

Might be easier to rename to continent.

Nah. I find it touching that the peoples of our future subject nations are already trying to identify with us while at the same time trying in their own humble way to distinguish our awesomeness.

I think of it as a hearty well done for protecting them from communism.

Well, you see, there is no "United States of Europe" and if there was, I would have no problem calling them Europeans...

the EU is not a Country, and is not recognized as such, therefore cant be used as anyone's nationality, or even a place of birth...

Your analogy is made of fail...

And just because your country is located on a geographic location, doesnt mean that you use its nationality...

And if you think it does, tell someone from the Republic of Ireland theyre British and see what happens to you...
And that's how the United States of America started out and why we aren't referred to as Columbians.

The United States of America is a union of states on the continent of America.

Might be easier to rename to continent.
I'm thinking you might be right.

I typically expect newbies to break the rules, not those who have been around long enough to understand what flaming is, and that you attack the post and not the poster... et cetera. I know what it means and there is no reason for using it. A smiley does not exempt you from enforcement. Warned for flaming.

Plus-one-ing the wrong call, for what it's worth.

If the point of the 'flames' is to point out that it DOES matter what you're called by others, and that you CAN be offended just by the terminoogy that others use towards you...

...and the poster who had claimed the inverse reacts in a way that shows they DO think it matters, and they DO get offended...

...then, it isn't a flame - it's a proof.

At worst, it's flame-proof. ;)

Fail, for evidently not bothering to actually read my post.

I'm talking about the name of the country itself. The name of the country is "United States of America" or "The United States" - it is not "America". The point I made was exactly that the people living in said country are known as "Americans" - you even quoted that part yourself, and how you overlooked it I'll never know - yet that's not the name of the country. It is for the continent though, and for some strange reason "American" has become synonymous with "citizens of the United States (of America)".

So to sum up for those having difficulties:

Name of country =/= America.
Name of country = The United States or The United States of America.
Inhabitans colloquially known as Americans.

Seriously, I've written this explicitly in at least three posts, why is it so hard to understand?

And you were also showing how officially "America" is left out of things, to which I posted the CIA seal as an official example of something in our government using "Unites States of America"

You did state that "colloquially" Americans are known as Americans, but you seemed to be trying to take away from the 'official-ness' under which Americans are also considered Americans.

The CIA fact book, an official publication from a part of our government, officially states that citizens of the United States of America are known as Americans.

Nah. I find it touching that the peoples of our future subject nations are already trying to identify with us while at the same time trying in their own humble way to distinguish our awesomeness.

I think of it as a hearty well done for protecting them from communism.

I have no idea how to comment on this but I actually really lol'd. :p

And you were also showing how officially "America" is left out of things, to which I posted the CIA seal as an official example of something in our government using "Unites States of America"

You did state that "colloquially" Americans are known as Americans, but you seemed to be trying to take away from the 'official-ness' under which Americans are also considered Americans.

The CIA fact book, an official publication from a part of our government, officially states that citizens of the United States of America are known as Americans.

No he wasn't. He was showing how, officially, it's never just America, by itself.

And the Canadians, Mexicans and South Americans would kindly like us to find one that doesn't lump them in with us.source it please?

And you were also showing how officially "America" is left out of things, to which I posted the CIA seal as an official example of something in our government using "Unites States of America"

You did state that "colloquially" Americans are known as Americans, but you seemed to be trying to take away from the 'official-ness' under which Americans are also considered Americans.

The CIA fact book, an official publication from a part of our government, officially states that citizens of the United States of America are known as Americans.

From the CIA factbook:
conventional long form: United States of America
conventional short form: United States
So the USA isn't even referred to as America by the CIA factbook.

No he wasn't. He was showing how, officially, it's never just America, by itself.
Ah, I thought his point was that, officially, it's used as "Unites States" without America.

source it please?

The Canadians can speak for themselves. That the Spanish-Speaking inhabitants of the Americas call us United Stateseans kind of speaks for itself. Already quoted the source ad nauseum on the latter.

From the CIA factbook:

So the USA isn't even referred to as America by the CIA factbook.
Right, because that's not the full name of the country.

United States of America. United States, America, The States, etc etc etc are just shorthand ways of describing the United States of America.

However, my point was that officially, citizens [and things] of the United States of America are called American[s]. As the CIA shows.

From the CIA factbook:

So the USA isn't even referred to as America by the CIA factbook.

But the people are
Nationality:
noun: American(s)
adjective: American

Right, because that's not the full name of the country.

United States of America. United States, America, The States, etc etc etc are just shorthand ways of describing the United States of America.

However, my point was that officially, citizens [and things] of the United States of America are called American[s]. As the CIA shows.
Which wasn't Gravlen's point. Gravlen's point was the United States of American is NEVER referred to in any official capacity as simply America.

But the people are
Nationality:
noun: American(s)
adjective: American
Which proves that people within the USA call themselves Americans. It doesn't make it a correct or acurate label.

The Canadians can speak for themselves. That the Spanish-Speaking inhabitants of the Americas call us United Stateseans kind of speaks for itself. Already quoted the source.
Yeah but I know tons of spanish speakers who use the term "Americanos" as a way of describing citizens of the United States of America.

For example, when discussing football, spanish speakers will say futbol americano. "Americano" is an adjective stating that it is from the United States of America.

Spanish speakers also will call American cars carros americanos . . . which obviously don't mean Mexican cars.

Honestly, people make this issue way more complex than it actually is.

And you were also showing how officially "America" is left out of things, to which I posted the CIA seal as an official example of something in our government using "Unites States of America"
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, ensure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
I think the official name is the United States of America. And America is often left out of the name entirely. The US department of State describes the Great Seal of the United States as being created after the Continental Congress of the newly independent United States passed a resolution.
http://www.bradwoods.org/eagles/images/seal.gif

The House doorkeeper loudly announces: “Mr. Speaker, the President of the United States" when the President is about to give his State of the Union address - as did the Speaker of the House. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDe6CeRW744)

They sure can be sloppy if it's true that the official name is America. You should write your congressperson - you'll find him or her in the US House of Representatives (http://www.house.gov/). (Not to be mistaken for the US Senate, something I don't think the Supreme Court of The United States has ever done...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Seal_of_the_United_States_Supreme_Court.svg/150px-Seal_of_the_United_States_Supreme_Court.svg.png )

Yes. It is left out. I never said it wasn't ever used. Notice the bolded word above.

You did state that "colloquially" Americans are known as Americans, but you seemed to be trying to take away from the 'official-ness' under which Americans are also considered Americans.
I'm saying that the country isn't officially called just "America", as some poster previously claimed (along with the claim that the "United States" was merely a national title). And I was genuinely puzzled to discover that that isn't so, yet the population of the country are (most commonly) called Americans.

I didn't try to take anything away from the 'official-ness' of anything...

The CIA fact book, an official publication from a part of our government, officially states that citizens of the United States of America are known as Americans.
And? That doesn't challenge anything I've said.

You know, you all could actually use a dictionary to settle this.
Quite so, Lacadaemon.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/American%5B2%5D
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/American%5B1%5D
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/American

Quitcherbitchin'. I'm an American.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/USian
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/USian
http://search.oed.com/cgi-bin/ts.pl

Quitcherbitchin'. There's no such word as USian.

Which wasn't Gravlen's point. Gravlen's point was the United States of American is NEVER referred to in any official capacity as simply America.
Ok? Which wasn't my point so I'm dropping this. :p

Which proves that people within the USA call themselves Americans. It doesn't make it a correct or acurate label.
Actually, if we officially call ourselves that, than it is correct. There is no more way it could be correct than it being the official, government sourced (CIA) way to describe citizens of the United States of America.

Yes. It is left out. I never said it wasn't ever used. Notice the bolded word above.


I'm saying that the country isn't officially called just "America", as some poster previously claimed (along with the claim that the "United States" was merely a national title). And I was genuinely puzzled to discover that that isn't so, yet the population of the country are (most commonly) called Americans.

I didn't try to take anything away from the 'official-ness' of anything...


And? That doesn't challenge anything I've said.
Ok, then there is nothing to argue about.

No he wasn't. He was showing how, officially, it's never just America, by itself.
Indeed. You're absolutely correct :wink:

But the people are
Nationality:
noun: American(s)
adjective: American
And?

Yeah but I know tons of spanish speakers who use the term "Americanos" as a way of describing citizens of the United States of America.

For example, when discussing football, spanish speakers will say futbol americano. "Americano" is an adjective stating that it is from the United States of America.

Spanish speakers also will call American cars carros americanos . . . which obviously don't mean Mexican cars.

Honestly, people make this issue way more complex than it actually is.

Wiki disagrees with your personal experience.

There's no wiki for your use of Americano: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americano

But there is use of other slang terms to refer to US citizens:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabacho
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gringo

Actually, if we officially call ourselves that, than it is correct. There is no more way it could be correct than it being the official, government sourced (CIA) way to describe citizens of the United States of America.
So we get to call ourselves something that insults the majority of the continent's citizens?

Ok, then there is nothing to argue about.

Quite. :p

At least in this respect ;)

Wiki disagrees with your personal experience.

http://www.spanishdict.com/translate/american

adjetivo
2. estadounidense, americano(a) (of USA); americano(a) (of continent)the American Civil War -> la guerra civil or de secesión americana
American football -> fútbol (m) americano
American Indian -> amerindio(a) (sustantivo masculino o femenino)

Keep in mind, I never denied the term "estadounidense", just said that Americano/a is also used and with the people I've spoken with, used more often than Estadounidense.

However, what I said about using Americano/a as an adjective still stands and the dictionary shows that.

The term is bullshit, it is entirely grammatically incorrect and sounds inherently derogatory even if the person using it isn't being intentionally so. And from what I've seen, was only introduced just to be insanely, incredibly and stereotypically anal about the US. It really seemed to me just to be ANOTHER thing to be annoyed about the US, so much so that people pretend that a word having two meanings is somehow offensive (it really really really isn't), just so they can be pissy more. However, currently, it is usually used because it's easier to type. I don't mind when people use it, but defending it as a legitimate term is retarded.

So we get to call ourselves something that insults the majority of the continent's citizens?
We get to call ourselves something that we have been calling ourselves before most other countries alround here existed. We were the first indepedent state in North America / South America so, if you really want to look at it this way, we called dibs. :p

And I know you've moved to Norway, but I'm still gonna say this . . . you must not get out much. Most Canadians HATE when people call them Americans, because, knowing how similar they are to Americans they try to show the world that they are not Americans.

For Latin-America, they can call us Estadounidense or American in spanish, but when speaking our language, they don't really have a say in it.

It would be like us trying to tell them NOT to use the word Estadounidense, in spanish. It would be pointless, useless and incorrect of us to do so.
Quite. :p

At least in this respect ;)

Until next time . . . :p

http://www.spanishdict.com/translate/american

adjetivo
2. estadounidense, americano(a) (of USA); americano(a) (of continent)the American Civil War -> la guerra civil or de secesión americana
American football -> fútbol (m) americano
American Indian -> amerindio(a) (sustantivo masculino o femenino)

Keep in mind, I never denied the term "estadounidense", just said that Americano/a is also used and with the people I've spoken with, used more often than Estadounidense.

However, what I said about using Americano/a as an adjective still stands and the dictionary shows that.

Proof that it's used more often and not just by Spanish speakers you know?

There's a wiki for gabacho, gringo and guero. Perhaps even more slang terms.

Your source also puts (of USA) in parenthesis. And points out that it's used to refer to people of the continent. It's use certainly isn't common.

So we get to call ourselves something that insults the majority of the continent's citizens?

The majority of the continent's citizens are americans.

The vast majority of the english speakers are americans. The remaining significant minority are Canadian, and if you really lived in Europe you'd know the last thing they like to be called is american. (Though hours of fun can be had with that).

The Canadians can speak for themselves. That the Spanish-Speaking inhabitants of the Americas call us United Stateseans kind of speaks for itself. Already quoted the source ad nauseum on the latter.

in this thread? what post # approximately?
*seriously curious*

Wiki disagrees with your personal experience.

There's no wiki for your use of Americano: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americano

But there is use of other slang terms to refer to US citizens:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabacho
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gringo

*face palms* :p

That's because you searched in English, fool. hahaha :D

You also won't find a wiki article on Amerikaner (the German term for American) if you search for it in english wiki.

But I've linked you to the dictionary, so the point is moot. :p

However, currently, it is usually used because it's easier to type.

Wait... so all this talk that "American can/should refer to all residents on either of the continents named America" is pure bull? and it's just an attempt to be lazy?

Ok, I can agree to that. :p :D

Proof that it's used more often and not just by Spanish speakers you know?

There's a wiki for gabacho, gringo and guero. Perhaps even more slang terms.

Your source also puts (of USA) in parenthesis. And points out that it's used to refer to people of the continent. It's use certainly isn't common.

Ok, now you're just trying to be obtuse. I've recognized both names (Americano and Estadounidense) as legit ways to describe Americans in Spanish.

I've linked you to the dictionary to show you that when you search "American" as in English word on the english/spanish dictionary, it shows you, as a noun:

sustantivo
1. estadounidense (mf) americano(a) (sustantivo masculino o femenino) (from USA)

Then as an adjective I've showed you that "Americano/a" is a legit term used to describe things Americans. The dictionary uses the term "futbol americano".

I don't know what you are trying to argue here? That the term "americano/a" is not used in Spanish???

adjetivo
2. estadounidense, americano(a) (of USA); americano(a) (of continent)the American Civil War -> la guerra civil or de secesión americana
American football -> fútbol (m) americano
American Indian -> amerindio(a) (sustantivo masculino o femenino)

We get to call ourselves something that we have been calling ourselves before most other countries alround here existed. We were the first indepedent state in North America / South America so, if you really want to look at it this way, we called dibs. :p
Not really. There were other colonies at the same time as the original 13. The other colonies became Canada.

And I know you've moved to Norway, but I'm still gonna say this . . . you must not get out much. Most Canadians HATE when people call them Americans, because, knowing how similar they are to Americans they try to show the world that they are not Americans.
I get out quite a bit actually. I've been to more countries in the past six months than most people from the US visit in their entire lives and I'm just about to travel for another month. I stay with locals in their homes and I hear the conversations. Not all of them refer to me or people from the US as American. The further east I get, the less I hear this.

Canadians don't like being mistaken for being from the US, that has nothing to do with whether or not they like that we've taken the name of the continent we live on to denote our nationality.

For Latin-America, they can call us Estadounidense or American in spanish, but when speaking our language, they don't really have a say in it.
Estadounidense /= American in Spanish. Estadounidense = United Statesean.

It would be like us trying to tell them NOT to use the word Estadounidense, in spanish. It would be pointless, useless and incorrect of us to do so.

Yes, it would be incorrect to tell someone to stop using a more accurate term. At least we can agree on that.

in this thread? what post # approximately?
*seriously curious*

No, it's true, they say estadounidense or someshit.

I have no problem with that. Legit word and all. Just like they don't call themselves spanish. Different language and all.

Wait... so all this talk that "American can/should refer to all residents on either of the continents named America" is pure bull? and it's just an attempt to be lazy?

Ok, I can agree to that. :p :D

I think it's a reason that many people use it (me included), but obviously some people think it should replace the term 'American' (which is quite frankly, insane).

Yes, it would be incorrect to tell someone to stop using a more accurate term. At least we can agree on that.

So you are saying we should use the most specific and descriptive terms for other nationalities?

Not really. There were other colonies at the same time as the original 13. The other colonies became Canada.


I get out quite a bit actually. I've been to more countries in the past six months than most people from the US visit in their entire lives and I'm just about to travel for another month. I stay with locals in their homes and I hear the conversations. Not all of them refer to me or people from the US as American. The further east I get, the less I hear this.

Canadians don't like being mistaken for being from the US, that has nothing to do with whether or not they like that we've taken the name of the continent we live on to denote our nationality.

F
Estadounidense /= American in Spanish. Estadounidense = United Statesean.


Yes, it would be incorrect to tell someone to stop using a more accurate term. At least we can agree on that.
This is pointless. You are arguing nothing and denying a) what the dictionary says and b) that "americano/a" is also a legit and well used term for things American in the spanish language.

I am wasting my time.

The majority of the continent's citizens are americans.

The vast majority of the english speakers are americans. The remaining significant minority are Canadian, and if you really lived in Europe you'd know the last thing they like to be called is american. (Though hours of fun can be had with that).
Are you talking US citizens? I also misplaced my apostraphe, so that might change things. Americans' as in both Americas. I don't know if that makes sense in the original context, I might have mistyped. But I can say I was meaning both North and South America as I've repeatedly said in this thread.

Well, if I'm not in Norway then neither is Gravlen: http://lh6.ggpht.com/_VV9WwWFcUE4/R9xMWa1AFbI/AAAAAAAAAH4/aDyBf5jibmU/s640/DSC02548.JPG

And we aren't in Frogner Park and that's not the Angry Baby in the background.
http://www.geocities.com/intrepidberkeleyexplorer/Page29P.html

Canadians don't want to be mistaken as coming from the USA. GoG and Sin have repeatedly said why us calling ourselves American is insulting to them.
in this thread? what post # approximately?
*seriously curious*
Wasn't trying to be obtuse, so I'll requote:
Many other languages use cognates of "American" to refer to people from the United States, but others, particularly Spanish, primarily use terms derived from "United States".
Spanish speakers call us United Stateseans (estadounidense).


*face palms* :p

That's because you searched in English, fool. hahaha :D

You also won't find a wiki article on Amerikaner (the German term for American) if you search for it in english wiki.

But I've linked you to the dictionary, so the point is moot. :p
A dictionary.

wiki in spanish:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americano

Even says Estadounidense is the reccomended form.

Ok, now you're just trying to be obtuse. I've recognized both names (Americano and Estadounidense) as legit ways to describe Americans in Spanish.

I've linked you to the dictionary to show you that when you search "American" as in English word on the english/spanish dictionary, it shows you, as a noun:

sustantivo
1. estadounidense (mf) americano(a) (sustantivo masculino o femenino) (from USA)

Then as an adjective I've showed you that "Americano/a" is a legit term used to describe things Americans. The dictionary uses the term "futbol americano".

I don't know what you are trying to argue here? That the term "americano/a" is not used in Spanish???

adjetivo
2. estadounidense, americano(a) (of USA); americano(a) (of continent)the American Civil War -> la guerra civil or de secesión americana
American football -> fútbol (m) americano
American Indian -> amerindio(a) (sustantivo masculino o femenino)
I'm arguing that americano/a is primarily used to refer to the inhabitants of the Americas in Spanish. Seeing as how you have other dictionaries that say it's not a preferred term we could refer to the use of americano/a to mean a US citizen as a colloqualism.

No, it's true, they say estadounidense or someshit.

I have no problem with that. Legit word and all. Just like they don't call themselves spanish. Different language and all.

And that is when they're talking in their language. I'm sure if I spoke spanish, I would call myself Estadounidense or whatever when speaking that language. yet we are talking about a term used in English. and Snafturi claimed that Canadians and others who live on the Continent named America don't want U.S. Citizens using 'Americans'.

So you are saying we should use the most specific and descriptive terms for other nationalities?

Is there another country that has usurped the name of its continent to refer to its citizens and its citizens only?

And that is when they're talking in their language. I'm sure if I spoke spanish, I would call myself Estadounidense or whatever when speaking that language. yet we are talking about a term used in English. and Snafturi claimed that Canadians and others who live on the Continent named America don't want U.S. Citizens using 'Americans'.

Sin and GoG. GoG also started a thread on it. They also never refer to US citizens as Americans. But if they are wrong and they like US citizens to call themselves Americans than I must have misunderstood them and they can correct me.

Wasn't trying to be obtuse, so I'll requote:

Spanish speakers call us United Stateseans (estadounidense).
thanks. I thought you quoted something from a different sourse. My bad. :p

Now... do they say "United Statesean" or do they say "Estabounidense"?

Is there another country that has usurped the name of its continent to refer to its citizens and its citizens only?

I wonder if people from Lesotho and Swaziland and Mozambique and Namibia and Zimbabwe and Malawi object to South Africans calling themselves South African.

Is there another country that has usurped the name of its continent to refer to its citizens and its citizens only?

It was never 'taken', its always been that way. Seriously, this whole USian bullshit is a relatively new phenomena. I mean, reading through the massive amount of academic documents, even fucking a huge amount of official UN documents that I need to research atm, they all use the term American. It's been the standard term from the beginning. I really do not understand why people find the whole idea of a term having more than one meaning being offensive, it's extremely common in the English language for a word to have more than one meaning.

thanks. I thought you quoted something from a different sourse. My bad. :p

Now... do they say "United Statesean" or do they say "Estabounidense"?

That's the english translation of the word as I've made abundantly clear in my numerous posts on the matter.

It was never 'taken', its always been that way. Seriously, this whole USian bullshit is a relatively new phenomena. I mean, reading through the massive amount of academic documents, even fucking a huge amount of official UN documents that I need to research atm, they all use the term American. It's been the standard term from the beginning. I really do not understand why people find the whole idea of a term having more than one meaning being offensive, it's extremely common in the English language for a word to have more than one meaning.

OMG!! The Paper cuts, teh Gawd offle Paper CUTS!!!

Is there another country that has usurped the name of its continent to refer to its citizens and its citizens only?

Colombia?

I wonder if people from Lesotho and Swaziland and Mozambique and Namibia and Zimbabwe and Malawi object to South Africans calling themselves South African.
Seems like they can't decide between that name and Azanië, so it's not really a decided topic.
http://af.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suid-Afrika


It was never 'taken', its always been that way. Seriously, this whole USian bullshit is a relatively new phenomena. I mean, reading through the massive amount of academic documents, even fucking a huge amount of official UN documents that I need to research atm, they all use the term American. It's been the standard term from the beginning. I really do not understand why people find the whole idea of a term having more than one meaning being offensive, it's extremely common in the English language for a word to have more than one meaning.
So that means we shouldn't be sensitive to others? It's not the first time a term has fallen out of use because it's been deemed insulting, irksome or offensive. "Midget" used to be a medical term, so was "moron."

Colombia?

Colombia = South America....:confused:

Colombia?

Where's the continent of Columbia?

Isn't that what they used to/wanted to call it?

I'm just trying to bring people perspective here.

So that means we shouldn't be sensitive to others? It's not the first time a term has fallen out of use because it's been deemed insulting, irksome or offensive. "Midget" used to be a medical term, so was "moron."

If people actually find it offensive, then perhaps another term would be better (not USian, that's retarded) in some contexts. However, I'm pretty sure the vast, vast, vast majority of Americans do not find it offensive in anyway. But what I am saying is that people should not find it offensive in the first place.

The vast majority of the english speakers are americans. The remaining significant minority are Canadian, and if you really lived in Europe you'd know the last thing they like to be called is american. (Though hours of fun can be had with that).
...you do know that Canada isn't in Europe, right?

I wonder if people from Lesotho and Swaziland and Mozambique and Namibia and Zimbabwe and Malawi object to South Africans calling themselves South African.
I wonder if they'd object if the South Africans started simply being called "Africans"...

Sin and GoG. GoG also started a thread on it. They also never refer to US citizens as Americans. But if they are wrong and they like US citizens to call themselves Americans than I must have misunderstood them and they can correct me.

I have never stated that "USian" is wrong.

however, what I do state as being wrong is when someone expresses a desire to be called something else, why argue against their preference?

GoG and Sin never referred to any US Citizen as "American"? You Sure about that?

Is there another country that has usurped the name of its continent to refer to its citizens and its citizens only?

Is that what I asked?

USian is stupid.

</lifelong American>

I wonder if they'd object if the South Africans started simply being called "Africans"...

If it were the United States of North America, there'd be no problem?

...you do know that Canada isn't in Europe, right?


I know that. The Canadians aren't sure apparently.

So that means we shouldn't be sensitive to others? It's not the first time a term has fallen out of use because it's been deemed insulting, irksome or offensive. "Midget" used to be a medical term, so was "moron."

Cause them wanting to be Americans is totally = us calling them Midgets and Morons...

That's the english translation of the word as I've made abundantly clear in my numerous posts on the matter.

yes, you made that clear. but what you are not getting is that if I AM SPEAKING IN SPANISH, I WOULD REFER TO MYSELF AS "Estabounidense". my question IS... Do those Spanish speaking people say "Estabounidense" or "United Stateseans" when speaking in ENGLISH?

If people actually find it offensive, then perhaps another term would be better (not USian, that's retarded) in some contexts. However, I'm pretty sure the vast, vast, vast majority of Americans do not find it offensive in anyway. But what I am saying is that people should not find it offensive in the first place.

For the record, I've never said USian was a good term. I said Yankee was a good term, but apparently it isn't. I actually think Columbian would be the best term. North Columbian in speech if people needed to differentiate from the South American Colombians. In written form, the spelling would make it easy enough to discern.

yes, you made that clear. but what you are not getting is that if I AM SPEAKING IN SPANISH, I WOULD REFER TO MYSELF AS "Estabounidense". my question IS... Do those Spanish speaking people say "Estabounidense" or "United Stateseans" when speaking in ENGLISH?

Id imagine the majority would say "American" when speaking English...

If it were the United States of North America, there'd be no problem?
I'd say that it wouldn't be different from how it is today.

Now, if the country was actually called (only) America...

I know that. The Canadians aren't sure apparently.

Really? How so?

For the record, I've never said USian was a good term. I said Yankee was a good term, but apparently it isn't. I actually think Columbian would be the best term. North Columbian in speech if people needed to differentiate from the South American Colombians. In written form, the spelling would make it easy enough to discern.

I've already told people to go with United Statesman. Everyone likes that.

But actually you should call people what they want to be called, accuracy aside. It's only polite.

I have never stated that "USian" is wrong.

however, what I do state as being wrong is when someone expresses a desire to be called something else, why argue against their preference?

GoG and Sin never referred to any US Citizen as "American"? You Sure about that?
They can answer that.

If people actually find it offensive, then perhaps another term would be better (not USian, that's retarded) in some contexts. However, I'm pretty sure the vast, vast, vast majority of Americans do not find it offensive in anyway. But what I am saying is that people should not find it offensive in the first place.
I never, ever said US citizens did. I said other inhabitants of the Americas did.

And I never said USian was a good substitute.

Is that what I asked?
The question isn't relevant if that isn't true.
Cause them wanting to be Americans is totally = us calling them Midgets and Morons...
I didn't say it was, I said that terms change in meaning when they start to become bothersome.
yes, you made that clear. but what you are not getting is that if I AM SPEAKING IN SPANISH, I WOULD REFER TO MYSELF AS "Estabounidense". my question IS... Do those Spanish speaking people say "Estabounidense" or "United Stateseans" when speaking in ENGLISH?
Sorry, it's almost midnight here. I really wasn't trying to be obtuse. The Mexicans I've talked to refer to US inhabitants as "gabachos," Puerto Ricans I spoke to in Spanish for the most part and I can't even recall off the top of my head if I've had a conversation with a Puerto Rican about US citizens in English. I can tell you that it's quite common for people to use "from the US" when describing my nationality even when they introduce others as "German", "French", ect.

I've already told people to go with United Statesman. Everyone likes that.

But actually you should call people what they want to be called, accuracy aside. It's only polite.

Psh, screw politeness, this is the Interwebs! :p

besides, if Canadians want to consider themselves Americans, Im all for it, lol...

your topic touches on something that cannot be defined by any legal document. it's all personal preference.

like religion.Or like top or bottom for toilet paper, but that thread never got this long. I guess people aren't as passionate about toilet paper :confused:

I've already told people to go with United Statesman. Everyone likes that.

But actually you should call people what they want to be called, accuracy aside. It's only polite.

I missed that. I like that. I might actually like that better than Columbian.

And please, everyone, I never ever ever ever ever said USian was a good term. Ever. I voted "no" in the poll even.

Amis.

Pfft.

The question isn't relevant if that isn't true.


Of course it is. You are now just engaging in sophistry.

I can think of at least one upsurped name which doesn't involve a continent. Moreover, I am asking you if you think that accuracy and precision in describing nationality is of paramount importance. It is irrelevant to which aspects that pertains.

Really? How so?

They're a bunch of wannabe's ;)

Or like top or bottom for toilet paper, but that thread never got this long. I guess people aren't as passionate about toilet paper :confused:

They would be if Toilet Paper were a Nationality :p

They would be if Toilet Paper were a Nationality :p Ut oh, I feel a new puppet coming on . . .

I'm kinda glad this is in no way an issue outside NSG. *shrug* USian is pretty distracting.

Really? How so?

I had a long and boring conversation in York (Eboracum, Jarvik?) with a bunch of Canadians about how "they are really more european than american". Then I had the same conversation about a year later with a different group in Bayeux.

Then I had it in Rome six months later.

I can only conclude that they are terminally embarrassed.

These days I just ask them which bit of florida they come from in my best RP.

I missed that. I like that. I might actually like that better than Columbian.

And please, everyone, I never ever ever ever ever said USian was a good term. Ever. I voted "no" in the poll even.

Haha, I don't really care either.

I just like arguing about it 'cos USian is so obviously not right.

Amis.

Pfft.
:p

And where does the term "Ami" come from . . . ???;)

I wonder if they'd object if the South Africans started simply being called "Africans"...
Well many White South Africans are called "Afrikaaner" . . . which literally means "African" in dutch, for example. ;)

Of course it is. You are now just engaging in sophistry.

I can think of at least one upsurped name which doesn't involve a continent. Moreover, I am asking you if you think that accuracy and precision in describing nationality is of paramount importance. It is irrelevant to which aspects that pertains.
Okay, fair enough. Since I'm too tired to define things properly, how about I give examples and why.

Let's take the Netherlands

Dutch is fine because there's no Dutch continent.

It would not be fine for them to call themselves European as a nationality. It excludes other Europeans on the continent.

I'll clarify at some point tomorrow if there's confusion. Unless I forget. And if I forget tomorrow then I'll probably forget entirely for I'm off to Berlin and all points east for most of April.

Ut oh, I feel a new puppet coming on . . .
Meh. Best I could do. Although I forgot to check "TP" . . .

Haha, I don't really care either.

I just like arguing about it 'cos USian is so obviously not right.

I'm 100% on your side with that one. How about, my official stance is staunchly anti-USian and somewhat anti-American for a term to decribe US Citizens.

I'm 100% on your side with that one. How about, my official stance is staunchly anti-USian and somewhat anti-American for a term to decribe US Citizens.

Why do you hate Freedom? :p

They can answer that.and you claimed it.

GoG and Neesika have used American when referring to citizens of the USA. They have used the term "African American" which is a term to denote an American Citizen of African Ancestory as well as 'Native American' when referencing Indians living in the USA.

of course, I'm still searching their previous posts. :p

Sorry, it's almost midnight here. I really wasn't trying to be obtuse. The Mexicans I've talked to refer to US inhabitants as "gabachos," Puerto Ricans I spoke to in Spanish for the most part and I can't even recall off the top of my head if I've had a conversation with a Puerto Rican about US citizens in English. I can tell you that it's quite common for people to use "from the US" when describing my nationality even when they introduce others as "German", "French", ect.

and that's the sticking point... isn't it. each country has their own language for natives of another country. I'm sure Germans don't call the Japanese "Japanese" in German. I'm sure the Japanese don't say "Germans" when refering to Germans when talking in Japanese. and I'm sure when I am speaking their language, I will use the standard in their language. however, the argument here isn't about what the Spanish call Americans in Spanish, or the Japanese call Americans in Japanese... it's what they call Americans when speaking/typing in ENGLISH.


Or like top or bottom for toilet paper, but that thread never got this long. I guess people aren't as passionate about toilet paper :confused:
Ah... but wait to see how passonate they get when it's missing. ;)

Ah... but wait to see how passonate they get when it's missing. ;)

Seriously, Ive been there, its not pleasant...

Why do you hate Freedom? :p
Because it has a funnsy sauce.

and you claimed it.

GoG and Neesika have used American when referring to citizens of the USA. They have used the term "African American" which is a term to denote an American Citizen of African Ancestory as well as 'Native American' when referencing Indians living in the USA.
I don't think Native Americans adhered to modern country boundaries.

They don't like the term, they've made that clear.


and that's the sticking point... isn't it. each country has their own language for natives of another country. I'm sure Germans don't call the Japanese "Japanese" in German. I'm sure the Japanese don't say "Germans" when refering to Germans when talking in Japanese. and I'm sure when I am speaking their language, I will use the standard in their language. however, the argument here isn't about what the Spanish call Americans in Spanish, or the Japanese call Americans in Japanese... it's what they call Americans when speaking/typing in ENGLISH.
It's all variations. As the Swede pointed out. As I've pointed out with amerikansk meaning American in Norwegian. Most of Western Europe uses that term in their native language. Amerikansk literally tranlated is American. Same with most European languages minus Spanish.

No bed yet, someone is playing loud music in the hallway:(

Ah... but wait to see how passonate they get when it's missing. ;)
You know, I was thinking the same thing :tongue:

Because it has a funnsy sauce. Fuck!!! and I thought I was cooking it too long! :p

I don't think Native Americans adhered to modern country boundaries.

They don't like the term, they've made that clear. but it's still funny/unusual tho.

African American and not African USian?

It's all variations. As the Swede pointed out. As I've pointed out with amerikansk meaning American in Norwegian. Most of Western Europe uses that term in their native language. Amerikansk literally tranlated is American. Same with most European languages minus Spanish. yet when speaking in their language, one would use the term their language would have. and not 'translate' another word to make it fit their language.

No bed yet, someone is playing loud music in the hallway:( Tell him someone in Hawaii is complaining that the music is too loud. ;)

go get some sleep. we're really arguing semantics at this point since really... neither of us (you and me) really care what we're called. :tongue:

Fuck!!! and I thought I was cooking it too long! :p
Oh, it was you who ruined the sauce. I should have known.:mad:

but it's still funny/unusual tho.

African American and not African USian?
Definately not.

yet when speaking in their language, one would use the term their language would have. and not 'translate' another word to make it fit their language.
I'll tell you what, I'll be talking to several several people from several countries in the not-too-distant future. I'll do some research and report back. I can already tell you the Polish use the term American, and I think it's safe to say the Germans do too. I'll let you know what the Ukranians say as well as the Slovakians if I make it that far.

Tell him someone in Hawaii is complaining that the music is too loud. ;)
Did you know Hawaii is the only state in the US that has an official language?

go get some sleep. we're really arguing semantics at this point since really... neither of us (you and me) really care what we're called. :tongue:
I shall go get my puppy kittened, or iPod my puppy. And I personally think I'm going to start calling myself North Columbian just to keep those strange foreigners I'll encounter on my toes. Or their toes. Or maybe we'll all just walk on our hands.

Ha det, Adios, and Farewell. I think it's finally bed teim

Tell him someone in Hawaii is complaining that the music is too loud. ;)
Good advice. :wink:


go get some sleep.
Better advice!

*Bops Snaf on the head with an inflatable hammer*

Snafturi, random question but can you speak Norwegian yet? And what do you speak? Bokmal?

I'll tell you what, I'll be talking to several several people from several countries in the not-too-distant future. I'll do some research and report back. I can already tell you the Polish use the term American, and I think it's safe to say the Germans do too. I'll let you know what the Ukranians say as well as the Slovakians if I make it that far.TG me the results. I am honestly curious now.


Did you know Hawaii is the only state in the US that has an official language? and I can't speak it. :(


Ha det, Adios, and Farewell. I think it's finally bed teim
Aloha and enjoy your trip.

Did you know Hawaii is the only state in the US that has an official language?

No, it's not. Far from it.

JuNii and Snafturi, Russians use американский, which is like Amerikanski. I'm assuming Ukranians use something similar if not the same, as the languages are quite similar.

Quite so, Lacadaemon.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/American%5B2%5D
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/American%5B1%5D
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/American

Quitcherbitchin'. I'm an American.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/USian
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/USian
http://search.oed.com/cgi-bin/ts.pl

Quitcherbitchin'. There's no such word as USian.

language does not work that way

No, it's not. Far from it.

Indeed:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/USA_states_english_official_language.svg/800px-USA_states_english_official_language.svg.png

English is an official language in these states:[17]
Alabama (1990)
Alaska (1998)[18]
Arizona (2006)[19]
Arkansas (1987)
California (1986)
Colorado (1988)
Florida (1988)
Georgia (1986, 1996)
Idaho (2007)
Illinois (1969)[20]
Indiana (1984)
Iowa (2002)
Kansas (2007)[21]
Kentucky (1984)
Massachusetts (1975)[22]
Mississippi (1987)
Missouri (1998)
Montana (1995)
Nebraska (1920)
New Hampshire (1995)
North Carolina (1987)
North Dakota (1987)
South Carolina (1987)
South Dakota (1987)
Tennessee (1984)
Utah (2000)
Virginia (1981, 1996)
Wyoming (1996)

English and Hawaiian:
Hawaii (1978)[23]

English and French:
Louisiana (1807)[24]

Isn't Spanish also an official language in a few states?

The term...sounds inherently derogatory even if the person using it isn't being intentionally so.

no worse than ukrainian does

Isn't Spanish also an official language in a few states?

No, I don't believe so.

language does not work that way

Does not or ought not?

Isn't Spanish also an official language in a few states?

No.

There may be a few asshat states that have tried to make an official language, but that's entirely unconstitutional. On the other hand, there is no law or constitutional requirement mandating what language official forms and whatnot should be in.

California could choose to go spanish if it wanted, but they probably couldn't make it the 'official' language in the sense that it had to be used if it would prejudice constitutional rights (like a fair trial).

So can I start referring to the Dutch as Nether People?

If you insist. We'd prefer Netherlandic or Netherlandian, i imagine (can't speak for all my fellow Netherlandians).

OP: At least go with USAn >_> (I'd pronounce it YOO-sahn, if you care)

(I apologize if someone already psoted this, as I have a cold and lack the energy to read through 25 pages on this...)

I did (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14663158#post14663158), but noone seems to notice...

Does not or ought not?

does not. strings of sounds (or in this case, letters) become words when they are used to express meaning within a language community. the existence of this thread demonstrates the existence of the word 'USian'.

no worse than ukrainian does

Right, but its this whole idea of making up a new term that Americans never agreed to, and calling them that.

Right, but its this whole idea of making up a new term that Americans never agreed to, and calling them that.

you know what one i like? montenegrins. it isn't in either our language or theirs.

you know what one i like? montenegrins. it isn't in either our language or theirs.

Well, it seems to be in our language. I mean, it's a recognized word on wikipedia.

Well, it seems to be in our language. I mean, it's a recognized word on wikipedia.

well yeah. i mean that i can't think of a good reason for us to use an italian loan word for them or their country.

does not. strings of sounds (or in this case, letters) become words when they are used to express meaning within a language community. the existence of this thread demonstrates the existence of the word 'USian'.

No-one is denying that the string of letters USian exists. However within the community there is no consensus as to what actually means. Some say it means whatever you claim it means, others claim that it is nonsensical and doesn't mean that at all. So again, unless someone appointed you language captain, it's merely your opinion how it ought to be.

well yeah. i mean that i can't think of a good reason for us to use an italian loan word for them or their country.

Well it's different when we have to get a word for it because we don't have one already for our own language.

Granted, I'm not Mr. Internet, but I've only ever seen 'USian' used here(as a side note, spell check doesn't recognize it as a word, and every time I see it, for a split second I think someone has misspelled 'Asian.') I think it's one of those words/phrases that, like 'Bushie' or 'the Dark Lord' tells you more about the person using it than it does about the person it's being applied to.

On a practical note, I've done a fair bit of traveling here and there in the world and if I was referred to/referred to myself as 'American', nobody was ever confused as to what was meant or thought I came from Canada or Argentina.

Granted, I'm not Mr. Internet, but I've only ever seen 'USian' used here(as a side note, spell check doesn't recognize it as a word, and every time I see it, for a split second I think someone has misspelled 'Asian.') I think it's one of those words/phrases that, like 'Bushie' or 'the Dark Lord' tells you more about the person using it than it does about the person it's being applied to.

On a practical note, I've done a fair bit of traveling nhere and there in the world and if I was referred to/referred to myself as 'American', nobody was ever confused as to what was meant or thought I came from Canada or Argentina.


The only reason why this is an issue is because of anti-American sentiment on here. :rolleyes:

But we have no government offices named "American" such-and-such. I agree it's a term in common use within the US, and in some regions outside the US. It's just not exculsively used or understood as such.
Ya know, I keep hearing this how poor people all around the world get confused when speaking English just what American might be referring to. Who? I've met people from all around the planet both in the US and in Japan, I have NEVER met anyone who didn't refer to things of or from the US as not American or asked when the term was used "Which country do you mean? The USA or Canada or...?" I have never heard anyone who was from North or South America refer to themselves as American unless there were from the US. So who the hell is actually confused here?

Edit: The embassies are even referred to as US Embassies. Depending on the country I'm in, I might get a curious look if I asked to be pointed to the "American" embassy, whereas if I asked where the "U.S." embassy was everyone would know what I'm asking for.
Buu wrong. It's the American Embassy here in Japan. I should know, I've been there and whadda know, the street corner says American Embassy.

The problem with the term "USian" is twofold.


It attempts to turn an abbreviation (worse, part of an abbreviation) into a word.
USA stands for United States of America. Note the word "of". It is of America, and thus American.

No-one suggests "UKian" for my corner of the world, despite the fact that "British" is not strictly geographically accurate. This is because the idea of such a nomenclature is preposterous.

Also, as a side note, most of those outside the USA but in the Americas do not consider themselves "American". "Latin American", sure. "South American", yup. "Central American", fine. But never simply "American". The Americas are too varied a place to be under a single banner term...otherwise we'd never have a North America and South America.

I cannot believe that there are actually people who choose to be offended by the term, "USian." I recognize that Canada and Mexico are also part of North America, and that the continent of South America exists. I agree that anyone, from either continent, could reasonably claim to be "American." When better terminology arises, tradition be damned! My thanks to whoever coined the term, "USian." Certainly, some people may try to use it derogatorily, just as some conservative pundits in the US use "French." I consider them pig-headed, no offense intended to pigs. Why is the use of "USian" even an issue?

And in case you have sigs off,
Language is a filter which distorts our perceptions. In order to truly experience reality, one must transcend language.

I see. The recycle time for the USian discussion is...6 years.

Also, long time no talk, Curious Inquiry.

The only reason why this is an issue is because of anti-American sentiment on here. :rolleyes:

Wrong, most people here agree with the current President. And disagreeing is what's anti-American, as you, neocons, have taught us so well. ^_^

No-one is denying that the string of letters USian exists. However within the community there is no consensus as to what actually means. Some say it means whatever you claim it means, others claim that it is nonsensical and doesn't mean that at all. So again, unless someone appointed you language captain, it's merely your opinion how it ought to be.

actually, no one is confused about who USia refers to. they don't like the word, but that is different from it not conveying meaning. if it was just nonsense, the acting all offended would be even more stupid and ridiculous.

and even if all those offended actually did dispute that it has meaning, there are enough people who do use it to convey meaning to make it a word. all it takes is more than one, really, and even that may be one more than absolutely necessary.

actually, no one is confused about who USia refers to. they don't like the word, but that is different from it not conveying meaning. if it was just nonsense, the acting all offended would be even more stupid and ridiculous.

and even if all those offended actually did dispute that it has meaning, there are enough people who do use it to convey meaning to make it a word. all it takes is more than one, really, and even that may be one more than absolutely necessary.
People use it? Where? Find me one non-forum/blog post that uses that term to refer to Americans. Find me a newspaper with a healthy circulation. Find me a press release from a government or corporation. Find me anything that shows that this term is used by people in the rest of the world and I'll start listening. Until then its an annoying Internet term and the use of it outside the Internet marks one as much as an idiot as someone who actually says 'lol'.

actually, no one is confused about who USia refers to. they don't like the word, but that is different from it not conveying meaning. if it was just nonsense, the acting all offended would be even more stupid and ridiculous.

and even if all those offended actually did dispute that it has meaning, there are enough people who do use it to convey meaning to make it a word. all it takes is more than one, really, and even that may be one more than absolutely necessary.

It is not nonsense about as much as l33t is not nonsense.

People use it? Where? Find me one non-forum/blog post that uses that term to refer to Americans. Find me a newspaper with a healthy circulation. Find me a press release from a government or corporation. Find me anything that shows that this term is used by people in the rest of the world and I'll start listening. Until then its an annoying Internet term and the use of it outside the Internet marks one as much as an idiot as someone who actually says 'lol'.

lol is a word

lol is a word
Webster disagrees. So does the OED. It is an acronym used on the Internet, but you do not hear it offline.

That is nether here nor there though. Find me a non-Internet source that uses the term USian to describe citizens of the United States or something that has come from the United States regularly. Otherwise, as much as you want to pretend it is not, it's a bloody Internet meme.

Webster disagrees.

language does not work that way. not even in places where they officially pretend that it does.

Find me a non-Internet source that uses the term USian to describe citizens of the United States or something that has come from the United States regularly. Otherwise, as much as you want to pretend it is not, it's a bloody Internet meme.

still a word. its a word even if only me and one other person use it. hell, it's at least plausible that it counts even if i only use it to communicate with myself.

Webster disagrees. So does the OED. It is an acronym used on the Internet, but you do not hear it offline.

That is nether here nor there though. Find me a non-Internet source that uses the term USian to describe citizens of the United States or something that has come from the United States regularly. Otherwise, as much as you want to pretend it is not, it's a bloody Internet meme.

Show me a newspaper with decent circulation that uses ain't.

language does not work that way
Bytejs! Us, kjsdhfsdvn, sdun sdalk jhiuksadfsdlksjdvhsdv,mdnxscvsdhvskdjfv. ne!
Languages only work if the terms are known and understood by people. Thus we have dictionaries.


still a word. its a word even if only me and one other person use it. hell, it's at least plausible that it counts even if i only use it to communicate with myself.
No, then it is a meme or perhaps jargon. It is not used outside of one special area.

Show me a newspaper with decent circulation that uses ain't.

USA today good enough ?
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/lopresti/2009-04-04-michigan-state-win_N.htm

Show me a newspaper with decent circulation that uses ain't.
http://news.google.com/news?pz=1&ned=us&hl=en&q=Ain%27t

Now show me anything offline using USian.

The problem with the term "USian" is twofold.


It attempts to turn an abbreviation (worse, part of an abbreviation) into a word.
USA stands for United States of America. Note the word "of". It is of America, and thus American.



1. unlike radar, for example, right?
2. read the thread.

1. unlike radar, for example, right?
2. read the thread.

1. You didn't capitalize it.
2. RADAR has entered common usage beyond a group of annoyed internet posters.
3. I see nothing in here that elaborates much on why we should/shouldn't use American.

No, then it is a meme or perhaps jargon. It is not used outside of one special area.

jargon is words and i don't think you understand memes.

3. I see nothing in here that elaborates much on why we should/shouldn't use American.

My friend Ramona is an American.

What country is she from?

jargon is words and i don't think you understand memes.

Jargon are words, in some sense.
1 a: confused unintelligible language b: a strange, outlandish, or barbarous language or dialect c: a hybrid language or dialect simplified in vocabulary and grammar and used for communication between peoples of different speech2: the technical terminology or characteristic idiom of a special activity or group3: obscure and often pretentious language marked by circumlocutions and long words
Not something I'd want to associate with a term I'm using.
The term Internet meme (pronounced /miːm/) is a phrase used to describe a catchphrase or concept that spreads quickly from person to person via the Internet, much like an inside joke.[1] The term is a reference to the concept of memes, although this concept refers to a much broader category of cultural information.

My friend Ramona is an American.

What country is she from?

The answer depends on the context of the conversation.
If the conversation was nationalities then your say She is a US citizen/resident. If the conversation is not about nationalities specifically then the correct answer is not information provided to make that determination.

actually, no one is confused about who USia refers to. they don't like the word, but that is different from it not conveying meaning. if it was just nonsense, the acting all offended would be even more stupid and ridiculous.

and even if all those offended actually did dispute that it has meaning, there are enough people who do use it to convey meaning to make it a word. all it takes is more than one, really, and even that may be one more than absolutely necessary.

So is it University of Southern Indiana nursing association, or someone who comes from the United States?

See, you don't know. And people could be confused.

Further, under your rules, as long as least one person knows the meaning of the string, it is legitimate, so henceforth I decree that anarchists should be referred to as globalbankingpigmenslaves. Now we both now it, so it must be true.

It is actually true though.

The answer depends on the context of the conversation.
If the conversation was nationalities then your say She is a US citizen/resident. If the conversation is not about nationalities specifically then the correct answer is not information provided to make that determination.

wow, it's almost like the term "american" is, by itself, a vague term that doesn't convey, without vagueness, expressly what nationality one is, and that, in an increasingly international community, having a term that clearly, unambiguously refers to someone from "the United States of America" would be a handy thing to have.

Who woulda thunk it.

My friend Ramona is an American.

What country is she from?

You don't have friends. :tongue:

You don't have friends. :tongue:

Shhh, I'm making a point here. Let's not confuse the issue with facts

jargon is words and i don't think you understand memes.
Jargon are terms or words used within specific field and/or area that are not used outside of those area or are used differently. A fine example of jargon is legalese, for the terms that lawyers use have meanings that are very different from those use outside the legal profession. The Internet is filled with jargon that makes sense ONLY to those on the Internet or who use the Internet and even then has subsections upon subsections (NSG has its own terms after all). None of which subtracts from the point that use of that language outside of those areas will not convey meaning because they are either not known or not used.

And I know what an Internet meme is just fine thank you. I've survived a number of them and unless USian makes the jump from blog posts to the outside world I will continue to consider it that.

http://news.google.com/news?pz=1&ned=us&hl=en&q=Ain%27t

Now show me anything offline using USian.

So stretching. Most of those are quotes or titles of songs and the like. Are you seriously telling me you'll accept a title quoting someone using it.

And, see, there's this thing called the birth of a word. It starts in small circulation. Then it grows. And grows. And so on. Can you tell me what day computer became a word? Was it when it started appearing in newspapers or when the first computer was created? I know the answer. Do you?

Shhh, I'm making a point here. Let's not confuse the issue with facts

Ooops. Sorry. Mums the word.

wow, it's almost like the term "american" is, by itself, a vague term that doesn't convey, without vagueness, expressly what nationality one is, and that, in an increasingly international community, having a term that clearly, unambiguously refers to someone from "the United States of America" would be a handy thing to have.

Who woulda thunk it.

It is only vague in a hypothetical situation where there is no other connotation or context.
Honestly, If you were to walk up to me and say my friend Ramona is American, what country is she from ? With no other context I would respond that's nice and proceed to go about my business because you sound like a crazy homeless person.

wow, it's almost like the term "american" is, by itself, a vague term that doesn't convey, without vagueness, expressly what nationality one is, and that, in an increasingly international community, having a term that clearly, unambiguously refers to someone from "the United States of America" would be a handy thing to have.

Who woulda thunk it.
Really? So... Neo, how many times have you been outside the US and when asked where you are from and if you responded with either America or I am an American gotten blank looks and a request for more precise information?

Really? So... Neo, how many times have you been outside the US and when asked where you are from and if you responded with either America or I am an American gotten blank looks and a request for more precise information?

Of course not, he always tells them USian, American is a dirty term used only by you fools hanging onto 'tradition' and 'Common use of the English language'

So stretching. Most of those are quotes or titles of songs and the like. Are you seriously telling me you'll accept a title quoting someone using it.
Languages have to be used. Find me people who use it off the bloody Internet. I'll take titles. I'll take quotes. I haven't seen it in print though.

Let me save you the Google search, I found, non-blog, TWO papers. Both of them are, well, Onion like and well known for their use of Internet memes.

And, see, there's this thing called the birth of a word. It starts in small circulation. Then it grows. And grows. And so on. Can you tell me what day computer became a word? Was it when it started appearing in newspapers or when the first computer was created? I know the answer. Do you?
Yes, yes they do. Now, how many people are actually using it? Really now? In speech, in writing, in everyday conversation to refer to a citizen of the US or something that is of or from the US? You guys might be trumpeting the birth of a new age, but for right now all I see is a hand full of people on the Internet trying to use an equivalent to l33t speak and stating that somehow this is the new form for American. Sorry, it don't wash. When it leaves the Internet I'll pay attention. Until then, this reminds me more of some kid who finally figures out that he parents have names other than mommy and daddy and decides to call them that to be annoying and then attempts to pretend to be innocent when called on it.

Of course not, he always tells them USian, American is a dirty term used only by you fools hanging onto 'tradition' and 'Common use of the English language'
More fool me I suppose. I just teach the language after all.

Really? So... Neo, how many times have you been outside the US and when asked where you are from and if you responded with either America or I am an American gotten blank looks and a request for more precise information?

I said I was from the USA. Or several times I said I was estadounidense, but I was speaking Spanish at the time.

Oh and http://www2.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=a70fa80b-fc65-4c36-9ec2-5160cf9a2623

Hehe.

More fool me I suppose. I just teach the language after all.

In Japan. You do realize there are more than two countries in the world. In fact, I think there might be more than 20 or 30. Maybe even 32.

My friend Ramona is an American.

What country is she from?

The United States?

In Japan. You do realize there are more than two countries in the world. In fact, I think there might be more than 20 or 30. Maybe even 32.

Because, of course, in Japan, an ENGLISH teacher will be teaching something different than an ENGLISH teacher in another country, right?

So is it University of Southern Indiana nursing association, or someone who comes from the United States?

See, you don't know. And people could be confused.

Further, under your rules, as long as least one person knows the meaning of the string, it is legitimate, so henceforth I decree that anarchists should be referred to as globalbankingpigmenslaves. Now we both now it, so it must be true.

It is actually true though.

I know. Let's create a new definition of the term "pedophile"; one that means "person who uses USian." Because apparently all it takes is one person to decide to use a word to make it official.

Because, of course, in Japan, an ENGLISH teacher will be teaching something different than an ENGLISH teacher in another country, right?

Uh, actually, yes. Are you telling me that people in the US and people in Great Britian speak the same English? No differences? What about India? Australia? It's almost like languages evolve over time and when you seperate them on different continents, they end up becoming unique to those areas. Nah. That never happens. Hell, the idea of evolution is just a conpiracy anyway.

I know. Let's create a new definition of the term "pedophile"; one that means "person who uses USian." Because apparently all it takes is one person to decide to use a word to make it official.

Go for it. See if it catches on. Methinks, it won't.

Because apparently all it takes is one person to decide to use a word to make it official.

'official'? language does not work that way.

Uh, actually, yes. Are you telling me that people in the US and people in Great Britian speak the same English? No differences? What about India? Australia? It's almost like languages evolve over time and when you seperate them on different continents, they end up becoming unique to those areas. Nah. That never happens. Hell, the idea of evolution is just a conpiracy anyway.

Yes, because it's not the same language, God forbid that a language be treated the same way with such major differences as LOCAL SLANG, SLIGHT ALTERATIONS IN SPELLING, AND ACCENTS, SHOCK AND HORROR!

'official'? language does not work that way.

Sure it does, even if they "officially" pretend it doesn't.

Oh and http://www2.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=a70fa80b-fc65-4c36-9ec2-5160cf9a2623

Hehe.
I'm assuming that you're attempting to be funny because all the news articles that get tossed up for USian assume that you mean the Jamaican runner (Well, more liked greased lightening) Usian Bolt and you didn't just throw up a link without reading it.

In Japan. You do realize there are more than two countries in the world. In fact, I think there might be more than 20 or 30. Maybe even 32.
NO?! REALLY? Hell, and here the fact that the AET company I work for employs Canadians, Australians, English, Irish, Scots, New Zealanders, and even a few Americans didn't clue me off at all. It's not like the JET Programme which got me into Japan in the first place has some 41 participating countries in it. Nor did I notice living next to one of the largest Brazilian communities in Japan!

Yeah, it's just me and the Japanese always over here. I never hear America or American in English to refer to the US or things and/or people from the US from anyone else but myself and the Japanese. Nope, never! :rolleyes:

Sure it does, even if they "officially" pretend it doesn't.

there is no 'official'. there is only use.

you can use whatever you want to mean whatever you want. your proposed use of pedophile to mean 'person who uses USian' seems extraordinarily unlikely to catch on. hell, i'd guess that you wouldn't be able to consistently use it in that manner yourself. but knock yourself out trying.

there is no 'official'. there is only use.

you can use whatever you want to mean whatever you want. your proposed use of pedophile to mean 'person who uses USian' seems extraordinarily unlikely to catch on. hell, i'd guess that you wouldn't be able to consistently use it in that manner. but knock yourself out trying.

It is as unlikely to catch on as your USian nonsense.

Also, you are just plain rude. But that won't make the bully give your lunchmoneys back.

I'll be damned if I let anyone refer to me as a 'Yankee.' I don't think I've ever spent more than a week at a time above the Mason-Dixon line in my entire life.

Seppo it is then :p

seriously, US-American, or US American, seem to be the most viable options

Yeah that is a good idea, of course then the laziness factor will set in and we will shorten it to American.

Leaving NSG: The next generation to argue over the use of American.

So if some other nation renamed itself as 'Humanland', could its people then insist that they were the only ones entitled to be called 'Humans'?

Didn't work for the Lesbians

"America" is suspiciously absent from the official titles and names mentioned above (and many more, probably.) Yet the people are commonly known as Americans, for some reason.

Except for the long form and one of the abbreviations. But then considering we have SCOTUS POTUS just goes on to show typical American arrogance that they are the only United States.

Yes, because it's not the same language, God forbid that a language be treated the same way with such major differences as LOCAL SLANG, SLIGHT ALTERATIONS IN SPELLING, AND ACCENTS, SHOCK AND HORROR!

And different words. Occasionally different usages. Even sometimes different grammar. Hmmmm.... that's everything that makes up a language.

I already had a suggestion as to why they call us Americans...

No one cares about your opinions or your sugestions SaintB. :p

And different words. Occasionally different usages. Even sometimes different grammar. Hmmmm.... that's everything that makes up a language.

Very well, let us never speak of those as 'English' again. American English, I dub 'American' oh, wait, sorry 'USian'. I dub British English, English. I dub Scottish English, 'non-gaelic scottish', et cetera. After all, none of these are the same language, right?

australians, australia, land of the australs?

i don't think that's how it works.

Australia means "land of the south", man. Try another, I'm pretty sure there's one.

I'm assuming that you're attempting to be funny because all the news articles that get tossed up for USian assume that you mean the Jamaican runner (Well, more liked greased lightening) Usian Bolt and you didn't just throw up a link without reading it.

You did notice I was laughing right. You should have been more specific. You did put up a link for "Ain't Misbehavin'"

NO?! REALLY? Hell, and here the fact that the AET company I work for employs Canadians, Australians, English, Irish, Scots, New Zealanders, and even a few Americans didn't clue me off at all. It's not like the JET Programme which got me into Japan in the first place has some 41 participating countries in it. Nor did I notice living next to one of the largest Brazilian communities in Japan!

Yeah, it's just me and the Japanese always over here. I never hear America or American in English to refer to the US or things and/or people from the US from anyone else but myself and the Japanese. Nope, never! :rolleyes:

You're right. It can't be widespread if you've not encountered it in Japan. Hey, everyone, anecdotal evidence for the win. Oh, and a little "I'm an English teach so I know" thrown in for good measure. I mean, those aren't logical fallacies or anything.

Everyone I know doesn't teach English in Japan. I've checked with all of them. From dozens of different countries and not one. You don't exist, apparently. And I know, I'm an existentialist.

You know, you all could actually use a dictionary to settle this.

We would never have made 49 pages if we did.

Very well, let us never speak of those as 'English' again. American English, I dub 'American' oh, wait, sorry 'USian'. I dub British English, English. I dub Scottish English, 'non-gaelic scottish', et cetera. After all, none of these are the same language, right?

They are the same language, but that doesn't mean they're the same. See, that's because that's how language works. If they become different enough, they actually will be considered different languages. You'll know when that happens when the two languages can't mate and have offspring.

We would never have made 49 pages if we did.
Zomg, but the dictionaries are lying!11!!!11 USian IS a word, and it's so much better than American! Because people get confused by that term all the time!

Australia means "land of the south", man.

i know. how does that impact its effectiveness as a counterexample to FO's claim that USian implies USes?

Americans used the term first and its part of our name (The United States of America) and therefore have all the right in the world to use it. After we took the name, those following had to use terms such as Canadians, Mexicans, Peruvians, Brazilians, Cubans, etc. Besides, USian sound stupid.

there is no 'official'. there is only use.

you can use whatever you want to mean whatever you want. your proposed use of pedophile to mean 'person who uses USian' seems extraordinarily unlikely to catch on. hell, i'd guess that you wouldn't be able to consistently use it in that manner yourself. but knock yourself out trying.

I certainly promise to laugh. I think it's funny that people forget to remember that dictionaries describe language, they do not create it. A word exists BEFORE it gets in the dictionary, not the other way around.

They are the same language, but that doesn't mean they're the same. See, that's because that's how language works. If they become different enough, they actually will be considered different languages.
It's. Still. English. The basic word usage will still be the same, no matter where you go, otherwise it wouldn't be FUCKING ENGLISH!

Meh, I'm in a bad mood. I apologize for that last sentence, I'm going to turn off the computer and get some sleep.

Zomg, but the dictionaries are lying!11!!!11 USian IS a word, and it's so much better than American! Because people get confused by that term all the time!

Hmmmm... one wonders how words get into the dictionary. Clearly, they can't exist beforehand, huh?

They are the same language, but that doesn't mean they're the same. See, that's because that's how language works. If they become different enough, they actually will be considered different languages. You'll know when that happens when the two languages can't mate and have offspring.

nuh uh. all languages were specially created 4250 years ago and you are a sinner for suggesting otherwise

It's. Still. English. The basic word usage will still be the same, no matter where you go, otherwise it wouldn't be FUCKING ENGLISH!

Meh, I'm in a bad mood. I apologize for that last sentence, I'm going to turn off the computer and get some sleep.

Which doesn't mean it's the same. That's the problem. See, if the usage changes in different places, then people claiming that because they teach English in one country that they know how English is always USED is bullshit. Because usage changes. It's logical, ain't it?

For example, remember when people used to say "ain't" isn't a word. Then it was suddenly in the dictionary and what do you, suddenly it's a word. Except, if you look at it's source, they don't list Webster. They actually talk about the source of the term.

Well, you see, there is no "United States of Europe" and if there was, I would have no problem calling them Europeans...

I wonder if we would be having an argument about calling them Europeans when there are othe countries in Europe?

i know. how does that impact its effectiveness as a counterexample to FO's claim that USian implies USes?

Because it implies the existence of "south". I would say that USian implies USes, or, to unacronym it, United States. So, his argument is a bad one, just for a different reason than what you said.

Seppo it is then

The hell? I'm not a Marx Brother...oh, wait, that was Zeppo, never mind.

I think you're going to have to explain that one.

Because it implies the existence of "south". I would say that USian implies USes, or, to unacronym it, United States. So, his argument is a bad one, just for a different reason than what you said.

run that by me again, i'm not understand.

the problem with FO's argument was it inferred from a demonym to a different demonym by way of a country name. this can't be assumed to work generally, though there are places i can think of where it does. in the specific case of both australia and USia it doesn't work for the same specific reason - the countries aren't named for a people at all. this makes them unlike, say, bulgaria.

I thought about this today when I said 'irregardless,' and my dad pissed and moaned about how it wasn't a word. I know it is non-standard, but I think it sounds better.

It's the same situation here.

You can piss and moan about how 'USian' is stupid and unnecessary, but some people are going to use it irregardless of your feelings on the subject. Like it or lump it.

You did notice I was laughing right. You should have been more specific. You did put up a link for "Ain't Misbehavin'"
Oh so you WERE trying to be funny. Try harder.

You're right. It can't be widespread if you've not encountered it in Japan.
Ah! Good. Show me widespread usage. A word can be jargon, slang, or other but until it has widespread usage... well then you've got your own little universe and that's fine, just don't try to confuse your Internet jargon with the real world.

My friend Ramona is an American.

What country is she from?

I know what country she isn't from. The United States of America.

'official'? language does not work that way.

You know you could explain why they are wrong instead of your childish lines.

When someone says something and comes up with premise you simply saying "No" doesn't actually mean that you have got rid of their argument at least show why their premises are wrong and come up with a couple of your own to actually give credibility to your "no"

Zomg, but the dictionaries are lying!11!!!11 USian IS a word, and it's so much better than American! Because people get confused by that term all the time!

Heh, well maybe we would.

Which doesn't mean it's the same. That's the problem. See, if the usage changes in different places, then people claiming that because they teach English in one country that they know how English is always USED is bullshit.
Yeah, let's talk bullshit, as in I'm calling you for it. Quote me where I said that because I teach English I know how English is always USED. Quote it to me.

Because usage changes. It's logical, ain't it?
Usage does change, it can change over time or very rapidly. Show me that USian is being used on any widespread scale to replace American outside of the Internet. You have slang or jargon that dies very quickly. You have some stuff that hangs on and becomes established in common usage. But jumping up and down and saying "No! USian is where it's at now! I mean, everyone is using it!" when you don't hear it outside of a Net forum is really sad. Show me the widespread usage of the term.