NationStates Jolt Archive

ah, so 'fattie', 'Fatso', Moron, Asshole, Asshat, etc should not be considered flames or baiting when used because none of what you mentioned happened to anyone bearing that label?

yet the Mods have ruled that those words, when used as flame or flamebait is actionable and they have given warnings as well as bans for use of those words in a Flame/bait manner.

that kinda destroys your argument.

Uh, no, it doesn't. I didn't say that USian can't be an insult. I said it shouldn't be compared to ****** and faggot.

Meanwhile, if you're discussing people from the US and say USian, then you're fine. I can even call someone a USian if we're discussing something about them being from the US. Just like I can call you fatso if you bring up that you're fat.

You: I'm fat.
Me: Just because you're a fattie doesn't mean we have to have double-wide seats.

Guess what? That's not going to be acted upon. It's perfectly okay to be descriptive even if it's slightly offensive. It's not okay to say something like Asshole because it's not descriptive. It's just a personal attack.

It's really not complicated.

Me: When USians travel do they tip?

Not actionable. Not even if you ask me not to use the term.

Me: You're USian, right? Do you tip when you travel?

Still not actionable. Even if you ask me not to refer to you as USian.

You: I think we should do something about global warming.
Me: Whatever, USian.

That might be actionable.

See the difference?

I already mentioned the fact that we are the only nation with America in its name, and everyone just ignored my post. :(



cause its been stated, it cant really be refuted, however most dont really care anyway...

i mentioned that British people use the term "British" similarly, and noone cared for that either, lol...

Well, I wasnt comparing it to "that kind of evil" i was comparing it to basically deriding Americans, in the sense of calling us "Douchebags", etc....

Offensive, doesnt necessarily have to be steeped in historical precedence or anything to be considered offensive...

Really? Wow, you have such a nice view of your country. So far, calling someone a person from the US, i.e. USian, has been compared to the anus, a bag from a feminine hygiene device, being incredibly stupid, and various other negative things. And this was all by Americans. Hmmm... perhaps the issue isn't that USian is a big, bad term, but that some Americans have complexes about their country and how the rest of the world views it.

cause its been stated, it cant really be refuted, however most dont really care anyway...

i mentioned that British people use the term "British" similarly, and noone cared for that either, lol...

Call them UKians. Teach them a lesson.

You: I think we should do something about global warming.
Me: Whatever, USian.

That might be actionable.

See the difference?

That is the difference, Ive seen it used in that fashion, and its not acted upon, because they use a defense of being "descriptive" its a cunning way to insult someone, or flamebait and get away it...

Is it the only use its seen? No, but has it been done? Yes, it has...

Again, I'll accept that USian has inferred emotion like ****** and faggot when someone gets dragged down the street for it, or people move away, or they're denied a job, or they're denied rights. It's one thing when a term captures the oppression someone has experienced. USian doesn't capture any such thing. For the same reason, ****** and honky aren't comparable. It's a perfectly fair standard. The standard is if a term has had years, decades, centuries of oppression tied to it, then you have a legitimate beef.

You show when the Americans have been oppressed for like 10 minutes, and I'll give credence to this argument. Those words have a dark and malign history. USian does not. You can't ignore that fact just because it destroys your argument.

You don't get to decide what is and isn't offensive, or how long it takes a word to be offensive. Whether you accept it or not is completely and entirely and utterly besides the point. Either a word is just a word, and we accept that no words have any implied emotion, which is quite assinine, or words have implied meaning, and a word like USian can have implied insult. Whether it meets your totally subjective criteria is the most irrelevant thing imaginable.

That is the difference, Ive seen it used in that fashion, and its not acted upon, because they use a defense of being "descriptive" its a cunning way to insult someone, or flamebait and get away it...

Is it the only use its seen? No, but has it been done? Yes, it has...

Seriously, the only thing I can say is grow up. We're not all a bunch of five-year-olds trying to get away with swearing but referring to Beaver dams and whatnot.

I'm serious. This really says a lot about the listener. Could you imagine if the mods acted every time some person got all bothered because they took something personally? It's a friggin' faceless person on a computer screen. They can get away with subtlely insulting you. They can. And they will. As is often said by the mods, get thicker skin. The mods really can't sit around and guess if someone is pretending to just be descriptive but really they have some sinister plan to stick to the USians... uh, I mean Americans.

You don't get to decide what is and isn't offensive, or how long it takes a word to be offensive. Whether you accept it or not is completely and entirely and utterly besides the point. Either a word is just a word, and we accept that no words have any implied emotion, which is quite assinine, or words have implied meaning, and a word like USian can have implied insult. Whether it meets your totally subjective criteria is the most irrelevant thing imaginable.

No, I don't. I don't pretend to. I do pretend to be aware of degree. You're trying to ignore it, but that doesn't make it go away. No one is claiming that people can't be offended by the term USian. People are claiming that A. it's not on the same level as ****** and faggot (that people would be me) and B. that just because some people take offense doesn't make it off limits.

You compared it to faggot which is what I objected to. I never claimed it couldn't be offensive.

P.S. Long enough for you, Sin?

I've seen longer.

No, I don't. I don't pretend to. I do pretend to be aware of degree. You're trying to ignore it, but that doesn't make it go away. No one is claiming that people can't be offended by the term USian. People are claiming that A. it's not on the same level as ****** and faggot (that people would be me) and B. that just because some people take offense doesn't make it off limits.

You compared it to faggot which is what I objected to. I never claimed it couldn't be offensive.

I understand what you're claiming. I'm saying you don't get to decide that faggot or ****** are more or less insulting to a person than USian or farfegnugen or supercalifragilistic. If I say a term is insulting to me, it's insulting to me, and your opinion on the subject couldn't be more irrelevant. Degree is only important in respect to the person being referred to. There isn't, despite your insistence, objective standards of what is and is not insulting, no matter, how you so condescendingly put it, how much it destroys your argument.

I find it puzzling, too; but then, I'm not American.

I tried to do the usual thing of putting myself in Americans' place, but I still can't see it. If someone on an internet forum started calling Australians "Ausfailians", I'd probably think "luser", but I wouldn't bother writing a denunciation -- I might make a joke about it and suggest something more appropriate (or more outrageous).

It seems to me a bit like an adult getting all upset if an unknown four-year-old called them "poopy-pants". Sure, the four-year-old's intention was to insult, but it's so silly, why get upset about it?

And if an adult called another adult "poopy-pants", what could you do but laugh?

Is there something us non-Americans are missing? Like, is it only (insert unknown group here) who call the Yanks USians? Or is it a dog-whistle term, like, when some pollie here starts burbling about "Australian values" you know he's about to start attacking immigration policies?

EDIT: Just read the "degree" posts. Seems to me "faggot" has some level of objective insult because it has been used in direct and deliberate, even violent, persecution.

*snip*

The only thing I say is, Grow Up, not all of us think youre trying to get away with something every time someone says a Mod hasnt gotten something...

The idea being, that this has been done more than once, and its gotten to the point that its not even very subtle, however an obvious defense exists for it, thats all Im saying...

I understand what you're claiming. I'm saying you don't get to decide that faggot or ****** are more or less insulting to a person than USian or farfegnugen or supercalifragilistic. If I say a term is insulting to me, it's insulting to me, and your opinion on the subject couldn't be more irrelevant. Degree is only important in respect to the person being referred to. There isn't, despite your insistence, objective standards of what is and is not insulting, no matter, how you so condescendingly put it, how much it destroys your argument.

I do get to say whether or not such comparison are reasonable, whether they ignore connotation, history and the like. And your comparison does. You can try to save that argument all you like, but comparing faggot to USian is like saying that punching someone and flicking them with your finger is the same thing because either assault is wrong or it isn't.

In other words, you're saying you don't have a concept of degree. Which is fine, if you don't. But don't expect us to stop using ours.

Some words are regulated in various fora because they have earned that. Faggot has. ****** has. But USian? Seriously? I mean what level of disconnect with history and culture do you have to have to compare the usage of USian to faggot? Seriously.

The only thing I say is, Grow Up, not all of us think youre trying to get away with something every time someone says a Mod hasnt gotten something...

The idea being, that this has been done more than once, and its gotten to the point that its not even very subtle, however an obvious defense exists for it, thats all Im saying...

I love that I pointed out that such things are usually tactics people grow out of and you used the ol' "I know you are but what am I" as a response.

*snip*


Well, Im not saying that the word should be banned, that would be insane...

But, I am saying that the context in which its used should be paid attention too, and when its used to insight Flaimbaiting it should be taken care of...

EDIT: Just read the "degree" posts. Seems to me "faggot" has some level of objective insult because it has been used in direct and deliberate, even violent, persecution.

Oh, no, that's not how it works, Ard. We don't actually consider context and culture when examining language. Nope.

I can see your point, and it would probably be valid in everyday usage...

however, In the context of the members of this forum, its beside the point, the term has picked up an implied meaning, true or no, that is considered offensive, whether you agree with it being so or not...

What I love most about this, is that it appears said implied meaning 'true or no' has been attributed to this word...by the people who object to its use.

That's a little bizarre.

I do get to say whether or not such comparison are reasonable, whether they ignore connotation, history and the like. And your comparison does. You can try to save that argument all you like, but comparing faggot to USian is like saying that punching someone and flicking them with your finger is the same thing because either assault is wrong or it isn't.

In other words, you're saying you don't have a concept of degree. Which is fine, if you don't. But don't expect us to stop using ours.

Some words are regulated in various fora because they have earned that. Faggot has. ****** has. But USian? Seriously? I mean what level of disconnect with history and culture do you have to have to compare the usage of USian to faggot? Seriously.

No, you don't. A thousand times no you don't. I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand here. If I find a term insulting, it is insulting to me, regardless of what your personal opinion of the term is. If I say that calling me shiny is extremely insulting, and you persist in calling me shiny regardless because you don't yourself find it insulting, then you are being a disrespectful ass.

I don't actually think that USian and faggot are equivalent insults. I completely agree with you that faggot is a much more serious insult. But if you're going to insist on maintaining this irrational double standard that some words are implicitly insulting because you say so, but other words are not implicitly insulting because you say so, then I'm going to call you out on your logical double standard over and over.

For the nth time, either a word is just a word, and there is no implied insult, or a word is more than just a word, and a word like USian can be insulting.

Well, Im not saying that the word should be banned, that would be insane...

But, I am saying that the context in which its used should be payed attention too, and when its used to insight Flaimbaiting it should be taken care of...

I think you mean to say, incite flaming, which would be flamebaiting. I've never heard of flamebaitingbaiting.

Meanwhile, I've already said that it can be flaming or flamebaiting, but not in any usage example actually being used by GoG. Apparently, the mods agree.

Oh, no, that's not how it works, Ard. We don't actually consider context and culture when examining language. Nope.

You retreat to condescension when your arguments have been defeated.

Really? Wow, you have such a nice view of your country. So far, calling someone a person from the US, i.e. USian, has been compared to the anus, a bag from a feminine hygiene device, being incredibly stupid, and various other negative things. And this was all by Americans. Hmmm... perhaps the issue isn't that USian is a big, bad term, but that some Americans have complexes about their country and how the rest of the world views it.

Fucking sigged.

No, you don't. A thousand times no you don't. I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand here. If I find a term insulting, it is insulting to me, regardless of what your personal opinion of the term is. If I say that calling me shiny is extremely insulting, and you persist in calling me shiny regardless because you don't yourself find it insulting, then you are being a disrespectful ass.

I don't actually think that USian and faggot are equivalent insults. I completely agree with you that faggot is a much more serious insult. But if you're going to insist on maintaining this irrational double standard that some words are implicitly insulting because you say so, but other words are not implicitly insulting because you say so, then I'm going to call you out on your logical double standard over and over.

For the nth time, either a word is just a word, and there is no implied insult, or a word is more than just a word, and a word like USian can be insulting.

I didn't say you couldn't regard it as insulting. You realy should reply to my posts. Quote me. Even once saying that USian can't be offensive to you. Show me saying it can't be used as an insult. I know you can read, because you're doing it. So reply to what I actually said.

I don't know who you're arguing with. Apparently, you have some bee in your bonnet and you're just all set on swatting at flies.

I love that I pointed out that such things are usually tactics people grow out of and you used the ol' "I know you are but what am I" as a response.

I would, but I thought I was supposed to avoid such things, in the context of "Growing Up"...

EDIT: Just read the "degree" posts. Seems to me "faggot" has some level of objective insult because it has been used in direct and deliberate, even violent, persecution.

But that's entirely not the case. Gay people have entirely co-opted the term "faggot" and even "queer", turning an insult into their word for themselves. Same with black people and "******". It's not objectively insulting. It's subjectively insulting. It may be the extremely prevalent subjective interpretation, but that does not make it objectively so.

I didn't say you couldn't regard it as insulting. You realy should reply to my posts. Quote me. Even once saying that USian can't be offensive to you. Show me saying it can't be used as an insult. I know you can read, because you're doing it. So reply to what I actually said.

I don't know who you're arguing with. Apparently, you have some bee in your bonnet and you're just all set on swatting at flies.

I see. You've decided to retreat into insult mode. I can see that debating with you is no longer useful.

You retreat to condescension when your arguments have been defeated.

You don't seem to be replying to my arguments. If you can show me ever saying that the term USian cannot be considered offensive, go ahead. You arguing with some phantom.

What I said is that faggot and USian are not comparable. And they aren't.

Apparently, you agree. "I don't actually think that USian and faggot are equivalent insults."

Again, what argument did I make that you think you defeated and quote me making that argument?

I think I share Ardchy's feelings. The term in itself, when one reads it, doesn't really looks or sounds offensive. It's puzzling that some Americans get angry at the usage. But I am not an American either. I guess once again this is all about context, quite ridiculous at that, but you know...

I think you mean to say, incite flaming, which would be flamebaiting. I've never heard of flamebaitingbaiting.

Meanwhile, I've already said that it can be flaming or flamebaiting, but not in any usage example actually being used by GoG. Apparently, the mods agree.

lol, I suppose so...

However, I wasnt referring to that incident in particular, I was referring to a slightly broader usage, by a broader number of posters...

Is there something us non-Americans are missing? Like, is it only (insert unknown group here) who call the Yanks USians? Or is it a dog-whistle term, like, when some pollie here starts burbling about "Australian values" you know he's about to start attacking immigration policies?

EDIT: Just read the "degree" posts. Seems to me "faggot" has some level of objective insult because it has been used in direct and deliberate, even violent, persecution.

I honestly don't get it either. I just don't. Yanqui and gringo, terms that have been suggested as alternates, actually do have a long history of being insulting. Why can we ignore that history, while making up a history for this term?

I mean, I don't think people are just pretending to be pissed off, that part is genuine. I'm just not sure why they're so all fired ready to insist that anyone who uses the term means something bad.

As I've been trying to make my kids understand (and admit to)...any word at all can be an insult if you say it right.

I see. You've decided to retreat into insult mode. I can see that debating with you is no longer useful.

I take you can't quote me actually arguing what you're swatting at. It's not an insult to point out your arguing against something I never said. It's downright required.

I am being condescending, but what do you want, you straight out made up an argument.

No, you don't. A thousand times no you don't. I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand here. If I find a term insulting, it is insulting to me, regardless of what your personal opinion of the term is. If I say that calling me shiny is extremely insulting, and you persist in calling me shiny regardless because you don't yourself find it insulting, then you are being a disrespectful ass.

I don't actually think that USian and faggot are equivalent insults. I completely agree with you that faggot is a much more serious insult. But if you're going to insist on maintaining this irrational double standard that some words are implicitly insulting because you say so, but other words are not implicitly insulting because you say so, then I'm going to call you out on your logical double standard over and over.

For the nth time, either a word is just a word, and there is no implied insult, or a word is more than just a word, and a word like USian can be insulting.

With all due respect, bullshit. Words have meanings and history. Recognizing context, meanings, and history is not illogical.

There are a number of words specifically designed and historically used to denigrate minorities. Criticizing the use of such language as offensive is not the same as "I don't like word X, so don't use it."

Citizens of the United States are not and have not been oppressed as a class and, although it is sometimes used in a derogatory manner, "USian" simply lacks a history of offensiveness.

Personally, as a manner of politeness, I think one should refrain from calling someone else any term that they know the other person finds offensive. But that does not mean "Usian" becomes the equivalent of "faggot" and "******."

Again, this conversation is particulary ridiculous in an atmosphere in which mere suggestions to improve language are roundly criticized as "political correctness gone mad" and "Orwellian newspeak" and threads about "that's so gay" are spammed with "that's so gay."

I take you can't quote me actually arguing what you're swatting at. It's not an insult to point out your arguing against something I never said. It's downright required.

I am being condescending, but what do you want, you straight out made up an argument.

Lol, I'm enjoying you tonight. Something about a mythological place of torment and a broken thermostat...

But that's entirely not the case. Gay people have entirely co-opted the term "faggot" and even "queer", turning an insult into their word for themselves. Same with black people and "******". It's not objectively insulting. It's subjectively insulting. It may be the extremely prevalent subjective interpretation, but that does not make it objectively so.

It's not objectively insulting. Who claimed it was? I've been using them repeatedly in this thread without insulting anyone with those terms.

Seriously, quote someone saying they are objectively insulting.

I understand your argument about usage. I've agreed with it throughout and have attempted to tell you so several times. And the only one who's been arguing about ****** and faggot has been me.

I honestly don't get it either. I just don't. Yanqui and gringo, terms that have been suggested as alternates, actually do have a long history of being insulting. Why can we ignore that history, while making up a history for this term?

I mean, I don't think people are just pretending to be pissed off, that part is genuine. I'm just not sure why they're so all fired ready to insist that anyone who uses the term means something bad.

As I've been trying to make my kids understand (and admit to)...any word at all can be an insult if you say it right.

You know what might, help, and/or hurt your understanding?


I dont find Yanqui or Gringo insulting at all, but the term USian just sticks in my craw, to tell you the truth, it just makes it seem like you find us wanting to be Americans, silly, and thats the offensive part...

You know what might, help, and/or hurt your understanding?


I dont find Yanqui or Gringo insulting at all, but the term USian just sticks in my craw, to tell you the truth, it just makes it seem like you find us wanting to be Americans, silly, and thats the offensive part...

Actually, the reason why some Canadians don't accept that is because you find their wanting to be Americans, given they live in America, silly. Something about pots and kettles.

It's not objectively insulting. Who claimed it was? I've been using them repeatedly in this thread without insulting anyone with those terms.

Seriously, quote someone saying they are objectively insulting.

I understand your argument about usage. I've agreed with it throughout and have attempted to tell you so several times. And the only one who's been arguing about ****** and faggot has been me.

In the fucking post I quoted, Ard said that the term has a level of objective insult in it.

I understand that we aren't the only country on the continent(s), but we are the only one with America in the name.

only because we didn't have a country when we needed a name, we had a collection of them.

You know what might, help, and/or hurt your understanding?


I dont find Yanqui or Gringo insulting at all, but the term USian just sticks in my craw, to tell you the truth, it just makes it seem like you find us wanting to be Americans, silly, and thats the offensive part...

That's funny because Gringo IS quite strong and, when used, it aims to insult.

Actually, the reason why some Canadians don't accept that is because you find their wanting to be Americans, given they live in America, silly. Something about pots and kettles.

Well, normally, Id throw in a reference to me asking them to be Americans, and them refusing, lol...


But, the difference is, that Canadians already have a term, Canadian....

While, us Yanks, dont really have another term for ourselves, and being that to the majority of us, USian sounds silly, its annoying...

While, us Yanks, dont really have another term for ourselves, and being that to the majority of us, USian sounds silly, its annoying...

I must've missed that survey.

Lol, I'm enjoying you tonight. Something about a mythological place of torment and a broken thermostat...

It just kills me. I mean, I've even argued against whether or not the term USian makes sense. I've also argued that some people are being snide when they use it. But seriously the level of melodrama around this term is just unbelievable. When poster I really rather like like Sdaeriji get so caught up in it that they can't tell posters apart, I really don't think we're anywhere near having a rational conversation.

Hmm... well, I like some posters that aren't always rational (kind of looking at you), when I say I like Sdaeriji, I'm implying I actually think he makes decent arguments and is mostly reasonable.

I expected that when I said, hey, you're comparing faggot to USian and that is pretty ridiculous, he'd say, yeah, good point.

I must've missed that survey.

I think its at a little over 53% or so at the current time...

In the fucking post I quoted, Ard said that the term has a level of objective insult in it.

Good point. But she did say "some level of objective insult". Wouldn't "well, I can see that one can objectively find context to that term that makes it insulting" qualify?

Perhaps I should take my own advice.

You know what might, help, and/or hurt your understanding?


I dont find Yanqui or Gringo insulting at all, but the term USian just sticks in my craw, to tell you the truth, it just makes it seem like you find us wanting to be Americans, silly, and thats the offensive part...

No offense, but if you don't find the terms yanqui or gringo insulting, it's because you haven't travelled enough in Latin America. These are terms used to snigger up your sleeve at someone who is boorish, ignorant, foolish and arrogant. It makes absolutely no sense to me to use terms that I know are MEANT to be insulting, that have a HISTORY of being insulting in order to avoid USian. I certainly have never tried to make someone call themself USian. The only time I point out that calling yourself "American" can be annoying at times is in the context of these discussions...otherwise, who freaking cares?

But no, I will not start calling you yanqui or gringo. It's like telling me to call you dickhead instead of howdycap because you don't mind being called dickhead. I can't use those words and pretend they don't mean what they do.

But that's entirely not the case. Gay people have entirely co-opted the term "faggot" and even "queer", turning an insult into their word for themselves. Same with black people and "******". It's not objectively insulting. It's subjectively insulting. It may be the extremely prevalent subjective interpretation, but that does not make it objectively so.

Well, fairly obviously I'm seeing it in the context of forum modding. Like, if Fass called me a dear old faggot, I'd probably grin. But if someone says, "All you faggots are alike", and it's not clear from the context how it's meant, then I'd treat it as baiting -- because "faggot" is a widespread "bad" insult. It's a thing people get murdered for being, or imprisoned, or executed, depending on where you live.

I can't see how "USian" is that sort of insult. I don't know of any outside-this-forum bad implications to it. As for inside-this-forum, it still looks to me like something so incredibly mild that most of the time I'd pass over it.

What are its implications? I'm ready to accept that, as a foreigner, I'm missing something about it, but what?

No offense, but if you don't find the terms yanqui or gringo insulting, it's because you haven't travelled enough in Latin America. These are terms used to snigger up your sleeve at someone who is boorish, ignorant, foolish and arrogant. It makes absolutely no sense to me to use terms that I know are MEANT to be insulting, that have a HISTORY of being insulting in order to avoid USian. I certainly have never tried to make someone call themself USian. The only time I point out that calling yourself "American" can be annoying at times is in the context of these discussions...otherwise, who freaking cares?

But no, I will not start calling you yanqui or gringo. It's like telling me to call you dickhead instead of howdycap because you don't mind being called dickhead. I can't use those words and pretend they don't mean what they do.

I guffawed at that second to last line. Howdycap. Hehe.

It just kills me. I mean, I've even argued against whether or not the term USian makes sense. I've also argued that some people are being snide when they use it. But seriously the level of melodrama around this term is just unbelievable. When poster I really rather like like Sdaeriji get so caught up in it that they can't tell posters apart, I really don't think we're anywhere near having a rational conversation.

We're not just having a conversation between ourselves in telegrams. I'm talking to a wider audience, and I'm addressing other posters arguments as a whole. If you don't like it, watch with whom you ally yourself. I've already had to address that whole stupid Mr./Ms./Mrs. travesty of a thread here as an example of why my argument rings hollow, even though I didn't have anything to do with that abomination.


I expected that when I said, hey, you're comparing faggot to USian and that is pretty ridiculous, he'd say, yeah, good point.

It is ridiculous. I'm not disagreeing. I'm attempting to make the point that there isn't an objective set of standards for what is and isn't insulting, and continuing to use a term that someone has said is offensive, because you don't find it insulting enough to stop using, is disrespectful. If someone from Taiwan calls me a guinea, I'm going to be insulted, regardless of whether the term is insulting enough in his mind to stop using.

I think its at a little over 53% or so at the current time...

I'd love to see a source for that, since I'm willing to bet that it's total nonsense.

Hmm... well, I like some posters that aren't always rational (kind of looking at you), Hey fuck you too :p



I expected that when I said, hey, you're comparing faggot to USian and that is pretty ridiculous, he'd say, yeah, good point.

It's exactly that hyperbole that annoys me. People say oh no we don't mean you're part of any conspiracy...then go right back to suggesting you are.

It's like getting all worked up about someone calling you Puddles.

Good point. But she did say "some level of objective insult". Wouldn't "well, I can see that one can objectively find context to that term that makes it insulting" qualify?

Perhaps I should take my own advice.

Wouldn't that, by definition, be subjective based on its use? The term isn't objectively insulting, but subjectively insulting based on context.

*snip*

Thats the thing though, most of us havent, and dont know Spanish...

to be honest, I always thought Gringo had something to do with "White" lol...

I'd love to see a source for that, since I'm willing to bet that it's total nonsense.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=588933&page=20

There you go

We're not just having a conversation between ourselves in telegrams. I'm talking to a wider audience, and I'm addressing other posters arguments as a whole. If you don't like it, watch with whom you ally yourself. I've already had to address that whole stupid Mr./Ms./Mrs. travesty of a thread here as an example of why my argument rings hollow, even though I didn't have anything to do with that abomination.

You claimed MY argument was defeated. What argument was that exactly?

I haven't allied with anyone. Trying to lump me in with other posters because my argument alone is too sound to defeat is weak. I expect better.

It is ridiculous. I'm not disagreeing. I'm attempting to make the point that there isn't an objective set of standards for what is and isn't insulting, and continuing to use a term that someone has said is offensive, because you don't find it insulting enough to stop using, is disrespectful. If someone from Taiwan calls me a guinea, I'm going to be insulted, regardless of whether the term is insulting enough in his mind to stop using.

You should probably read what I said, then. Because I said it was disrespectful and that I believe respect, particularly at the level where I moderate my language around you, requires that you show me the same respect. (Universal you)

Thats the thing though, most of us havent, and dont know Spanish...

to be honest, I always thought Gringo had something to do with "White" lol...

Nope, gringo is a very disrespectful way of referring to Americans in Latin America.

Wouldn't that, by definition, be subjective based on its use? The term isn't objectively insulting, but subjectively insulting based on context.

Then dog subjectively means canine.

Well, fairly obviously I'm seeing it in the context of forum modding. Like, if Fass called me a dear old faggot, I'd probably grin. But if someone says, "All you faggots are alike", and it's not clear from the context how it's meant, then I'd treat it as baiting -- because "faggot" is a widespread "bad" insult. It's a thing people get murdered for being, or imprisoned, or executed, depending on where you live.

I can't see how "USian" is that sort of insult. I don't know of any outside-this-forum bad implications to it. As for inside-this-forum, it still looks to me like something so incredibly mild that most of the time I'd pass over it.

What are its implications? I'm ready to accept that, as a foreigner, I'm missing something about it, but what?

Of course. Context matters. Which means it's not objectively insulting, but subjectively based on the context surrounding it. I'd likely be less insulted by Fass calling me a faggot too. But, if the term is an objective insult, then he's insulting me, strictly speaking.

Any word can be insulting based on its context, no matter how mild someone else might find it. So, in the GoG-TAI case, the first time GoG used it, maybe it's not intended as an insult. Fine. But if TAI requests that the term no longer be used, and it is deliberately used repeatedly, how can that not be seen as antagonizing? If you know a term is insulting, and you purposely use it when there are acceptable alternatives, isn't that insulting? It seems that way to me, no matter how mild I might personally find the term.

I guess I just don't get how on one hand we can say that context matters with a word like faggot (Fass example), but on the other hand we can say that USian is so mild that context doesn't matter. I've said it before, but I have a hard time viewing it as anything other than a double standard.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=588933&page=20

There you go

I'm 120% sure that doesn't count.

Then dog subjectively means canine.

Sure, in the sense that the word can also be used colloquially to mean a crude person.

Of course. Context matters. Which means it's not objectively insulting, but subjectively based on the context surrounding it. I'd likely be less insulted by Fass calling me a faggot too. But, if the term is an objective insult, then he's insulting me, strictly speaking.

Any word can be insulting based on its context, no matter how mild someone else might find it. So, in the GoG-TAI case, the first time GoG used it, maybe it's not intended as an insult. Fine. But if TAI requests that the term no longer be used, and it is deliberately used repeatedly, how can that not be seen as antagonizing? If you know a term is insulting, and you purposely use it when there are acceptable alternatives, isn't that insulting? It seems that way to me, no matter how mild I might personally find the term.

I guess I just don't get how on one hand we can say that context matters with a word like faggot (Fass example), but on the other hand we can say that USian is so mild that context doesn't matter. I've said it before, but I have a hard time viewing it as anything other than a double standard.

Try this. Go up to a coworker. Take a knife with you. The first time cut a cake with that knife. The second time point it at them and say you've had enough of them. The second will get you fired, and perhaps thrown in jail.

Now, take your hand. The first time cut a cake with your hand. The second time point it at them say you've had enough of them. The second will possibly get you reprimanded. It's almost like your hand and knife aren't the same.

You've not assaulted anyone in either case. No one was in danger. However, it's like there is some kind of inherent context to a knife that makes it so you can't point it at someone and utter a mild threat. Strange, no?

I'm 120% sure that doesn't count.

In the context of "How many posters on NSG dont think USian is a good term for American"...Im not sure how you can find a more credible one...

Sure, in the sense that the word can also be used colloquially to mean a crude person.

Dude, you've just destroyed the term objectively. Dog does objectively mean canine.

It can also objectively mean "a crude person".

Now, there can be context where whether it means one or the other is subjective, but that's not the same thing.

In the context of "How many posters on NSG dont think USian is a good term for American"...Im not sure how you can find a more credible one...

You spoke for "us Yanks." Unless we've redefined "Yanks" to mean "posters on NSG, not all of whom are even American", then I fail to see how that poll is an accurate portrayal of the attitude of "us Yanks."

Nope, gringo is a very disrespectful way of referring to Americans in Latin America.

Huh...

http://www.mediabistro.com/agencyspy/original/nbc_the_more_you_know.jpg

You spoke for "us Yanks." Unless we've redefined "Yanks" to mean "posters on NSG, not all of whom are even American", then I fail to see how that poll is an accurate portrayal of the attitude of "us Yanks."

I suggest you peruse this, http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/context

Which is odd, considering your previous posts in this thread...

Dude, you've just destroyed the term objectively. Dog does objectively mean canine.

It can also objectively mean "a crude person".

Now, there can be context where whether it means one or the other is subjective, but that's not the same thing.

I disagree. Funny how that works. It's almost like I'm allowed to have my own interpretation of words.

I suggest you peruse this, http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/context

Which is odd, considering your previous posts in this thread...

So, in the context of your post, by "Yanks", you meant posters on NSG, not all of whom are Americans.

Hmm, alright. I wasn't aware of the new meaning.

So, in the context of your post, by "Yanks", you meant posters on NSG, not all of whom are Americans.

Hmm, alright. I wasn't aware of the new meaning.

Well, you could say that, Really it was more along the lines of American Posters in this thread, but, whatever floats your boat...

Proving that I am incredibly ancient, let us now go back to the days of the Cold War. In that era, both left and right were innocently excited about space flight. Lefties tended to talk about "cosmonauts", because that's what the Russians called their venturers; everyone else said "astronauts".

If the internet, and this forum, had been in existence then, I bet there would have been a group of people talking about "cosmonauts" and another group getting annoyed becuse, dammit, they weren't "cosmonauts", they were "astronauts". Astronauts, astronauts, astronauts! And I'll bet there would have been threads in Moderation complaining that X was deliberately saying "cosmo" (or"astro")naut, even though he'd been told repeatedly that it was annoying.

I'll also bet that those mythical mods, in those ancient days, would have said, in the politer parlance of the time, that the complainant was perhaps being a leetle over-sensitive.

I'm afraid that "USian" has the same ring to me. And I can't even directly associate it with a particular group. Every time I think I've got it pinned (only lefties use it? Only libertarians? Only anarchists? Only non-US citizens who live on one or other of the American continents? Only the chronically argumentative?) someone new joins in from a different slant.

I'd hoped I'd get some info on that, but I haven't. And the "words have subjective/objective value" debate isn't one I fancy, so I guess I'm signing off.

Damn Saturday gardening. I may be back if it rains.

USian sounds just fine spoken aloud. You-ess-ian.

Yes. It sounds completely retarded.

And frankly, like it or not, I think it has caught on quite well.

Fortunately, only a tiny and inconsequential minority uses the term.

There are any number of USians who use the term themselves now. No rolling back the clock on this one (http://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GWYE_enCA261CA261&q=USian), baby.

Why do I get the impression you, Gift-of-god, etc. are trolls who deliberately use the term just to annoy people?

Yes. It sounds completely retarded.



Fortunately, only a tiny and inconsequential minority uses the term.



Why do I get the impression you, Gift-of-god, etc. are trolls who deliberately use the term just to annoy people?

Now that is a rational argument.

I cannot believe that there are actually people who choose to be offended by the term, "USian." I recognize that Canada and Mexico are also part of North America, and that the continent of South America exists. I agree that anyone, from either continent, could reasonably claim to be "American." When better terminology arises, tradition be damned! My thanks to whoever coined the term, "USian." Certainly, some people may try to use it derogatorily, just as some conservative pundits in the US use "French." I consider them pig-headed, no offense intended to pigs. Why is the use of "USian" even an issue?

And in case you have sigs off,
Language is a filter which distorts our perceptions. In order to truly experience reality, one must transcend language.


I am an American and I am offended by the term "USian". I do not recognize it's validity as a possible descriptive adjective. I do not consider someone from Argentina to be in any way, shape, or form to be "American", nor someone from Canada. They happen to be from the continent of Northern or Southern America, but they are not American.

Now that is a rational argument.

I'm not making an argument, I'm just giving my opinion. Make of it what you will.

How is it more silly than calling us "American"?

Perhaps its because the name of our country is "America"? The national title is "United States of" but not the name. Thus: it is the same thing as referring to someone from Britain as "UKian", Russian as "RFian", or from, say Germany as "FRian". It doesn't work, as that is not the national name, simply its governmental title.

Meh.

When the Canadians and the Mexicans want to be called Americans, then we can go about changing it.

Meh.

When the Canadians and the Mexicans want to be called Americans, then we can go about changing it.

Even if they did: tough shit.

I didn't vote because I don't know! I get the argument, pretty much agree with it. Just can't get used to it. Everybody needs to use it more until I can get accustomed. Deal?

That's what it's in German. US-Amerikaner, US-amerikanisch, etc. Only in colloquial usage will people leave out the "US" part.

When I was new to NSG (the first English-language political forum I'd been on) I *hated* people just going on about Americans this, American that.
Accordingly, I'm somewhat annoyed with myself for having gotten used to it and using it in the way (US-)Americans use it, now. Curse you, NSG.

Edit: Forgot to say, d'oh: I never used "USAmerican" because it looks way wrong & I've only seen it more recently. I always thought there was no English version of "US-Amerikaner".
I call bullshit. In neither Germany, Austria nor Switzerland have I spoken to people about Americans and heard them use the term "US-Amerikaner". It's always "Amerikaner" . . . and to further show proof of this, the [slightly] negative term for Americans in German is Amis. When you talk about Amis in German, nobody says "oh, do you mean Mexicans?" No, everyone knows it means Americans. Plus, if you study German in an American classroom, German textbooks teach that you are:

Amerikaner

or

Amerikanerin

And not just that, other things that have to do with the United States of America take the adjective "American/Amerikaner" in German:

Afroamerikaner - African-American

Amerikanische Kultur - American culture

Typisch Amerikaner - Typical American

Amerikanistik - American-studies . . . studies dealing with the United States of America (not Mexico or Peru or whatever)

As for this entire debate, there is no point. Nations choose their own name, and the international community accepts it once they accept the legitmacy of that nation. You don't have any more say in the matter of what Americans call themselves than Americans would in what Germans call themselves.

Also, I find it quite rich that Canadians or Mexicans or Peruvians or whoever want to be called Americans. Canadians exist soley to show the world that they are not Americans, and Latin-Americans have been trying their hardest to show the world that they can do without America. . . :p

I am an American and I am offended by the term "USian". I do not recognize it's validity as a possible descriptive adjective. I do not consider someone from Argentina to be in any way, shape, or form to be "American", nor someone from Canada. They happen to be from the continent of Northern or Southern America, but they are not American.

This.

Also, in school we didn't learn it as "The Americas" anymore than we learned Europe and Asia as "Eurasia". Of course we were told that the term existed and what it meant, but it was not for common usage.

We were told about a North and South America, and then we usually further added a Central America to further specify.

We never spoke of "The Americas".

Sure. Why not. I am confused as to why people are offended by it.

I'm more confused by this thread's page count. Is this the new hot button issue?

If we go by the USian logic, then I'm a DOCian. Doesn't really roll off the tongue. Let's stick with what we both got.

If we go by the USian logic, then I'm a DOCian. Doesn't really roll off the tongue. Let's stick with what we both got.

doc?

Whats septics? Never heard o that one, lol...

Rhyming slang, possibly of the Cockney variety.

Really? Wow, you have such a nice view of your country. So far, calling someone a person from the US, i.e. USian, has been compared to the anus, a bag from a feminine hygiene device, being incredibly stupid, and various other negative things. And this was all by Americans. Hmmm... perhaps the issue isn't that USian is a big, bad term, but that some Americans have complexes about their country and how the rest of the world views it.

Some, perhaps. Others, like me, are rather pedantic and like things to be what we consider accurate. I do not consider "USian" an accurate term, because it is not the term by which the vast majority of us refer to ourselves.

I don't consider it offensive or anything like that, incidentally. I just would prefer not to be called it. (And of course, my preference is just that. My preference. People do not have to respect my preference if they choose not to.)

Proving that I am incredibly ancient, let us now go back to the days of the Cold War. In that era, both left and right were innocently excited about space flight. Lefties tended to talk about "cosmonauts", because that's what the Russians called their venturers; everyone else said "astronauts".

If the internet, and this forum, had been in existence then, I bet there would have been a group of people talking about "cosmonauts" and another group getting annoyed becuse, dammit, they weren't "cosmonauts", they were "astronauts". Astronauts, astronauts, astronauts! And I'll bet there would have been threads in Moderation complaining that X was deliberately saying "cosmo" (or"astro")naut, even though he'd been told repeatedly that it was annoying.

I'll also bet that those mythical mods, in those ancient days, would have said, in the politer parlance of the time, that the complainant was perhaps being a leetle over-sensitive.

I'm afraid that "USian" has the same ring to me. And I can't even directly associate it with a particular group. Every time I think I've got it pinned (only lefties use it? Only libertarians? Only anarchists? Only non-US citizens who live on one or other of the American continents? Only the chronically argumentative?) someone new joins in from a different slant.

I'd hoped I'd get some info on that, but I haven't. And the "words have subjective/objective value" debate isn't one I fancy, so I guess I'm signing off.

Damn Saturday gardening. I may be back if it rains.

I disagree with your analogy, with all due respect. It would apply were the two sides disagreeing on what to call Cosmonauts. You see, if it were the Americans saying "those aren't Cosmonauts, they are Astronauts", it would be more similar. But that's not the case, because we used the term Astronaut to refer to American Astronauts and Cosmonaut to refer to Soviet Cosmonauts. Both sides (atleast from this side . . . no idea what Soviets called our guys) were called what they wanted to be called.

It's a simple matter of respect and understanding that if we, as a nation, pick a name for ourselves and have been using it for hundreds of years, so that it is now officially (as sourced by the CIA factbook) the adjective for a person from the USA, it is seen as pure flame-baiting when someone refuses to call you by your name and instead calls you by something that you have stated you do not wish to be used as an alternative.

If we go by the USian logic, then I'm a DOCian. Doesn't really roll off the tongue. Let's stick with what we both got.

Actually it does. Dockian. :)

Also, the terms African-American, Asian-American, Black-American, Native-American, Cuban-American, Italian-American, while not exactly my favorite, are still commonly used, acceptable english words to describe specefic ethnic groups who are Americans.

People debating against the term "American" seem to forget that. ;)

Also, the terms African-American, Asian-American, Black-American, Native-American, Cuban-American, Italian-American, while not exactly my favorite, are still commonly used, acceptable english words to describe specefic ethnic groups who are Americans.

People debating against the term "American" seem to forget that. ;)Cuban USian. Sounds like a sandwich.

doc?

DOC=Dominion of Canada

Kyronea, don't say that, I don't want it to catch on.

LOL

I disagree with your analogy, with all due respect. It would apply were the two sides disagreeing on what to call Cosmonauts. You see, if it were the Americans saying "those aren't Cosmonauts, they are Astronauts", it would be more similar. But that's not the case, because we used the term Astronaut to refer to American Astronauts and Cosmonaut to refer to Soviet Cosmonauts. Both sides (atleast from this side . . . no idea what Soviets called our guys) were called what they wanted to be called.

It's a simple matter of respect and understanding that if we, as a nation, pick a name for ourselves and have been using it for hundreds of years, so that it is now officially (as sourced by the CIA factbook) the adjective for a person from the USA, it is seen as pure flame-baiting when someone refuses to call you by your name and instead calls you by something that you have stated you do not wish to be used as an alternative.But being offended by it is a bit like someone named Robert getting offended if someone called him Bob.

Anyway, in Italian we use "statunitense" when we want to refer specifically to a US citizen, as opposed to other "americani".

When I took my Italian class (from an Italian teacher), the textbook taught us to use the terms Americano, Americana e Americani and as an adjective. As an example, this is how we would learn to use the term:

Io preferisco la macchina americana.

DOC=Dominion of Canada

ah, except that you don't go by 'the dominion' (though maybe you should start...). unlike USia, which goes by 'the united states' all the fucking time.

But being offended by it is a bit like someone named Robert getting offended if someone called him Bob.
And you probably wouldn't get pissed off right away. But if you clearly told that person that you're name wasn't Bob, but rather Robert, yet he kept calling you Bob just because he wanted to piss you off . . .

Well, see where I'm getting at? On forums, that's called flame-baiting.
Cuban USian. Sounds like a sandwich.
lol.

"USian" implies a "USia", which would mean "land of the USs". Pray tell, who are these "USs"?

See that is what I was wondering, are these people call themselves USian citizens of the United States of Mexico?

Never knew we had so many people from the country on these forums.

But really if someone comes for the USA just call them Ynaks or Seppos then everyone knows ho we ar talking about.

I don't really care either way. I've always preferred United Statesman, has a nice marvel comics ring to it.

USian is a mixed bag: On the one hand it's all up in Uncle Sam's mighty face, which is just asking for some innocent third party to get the hell bombed out of them. (Their blood is on your hands EUians).

On the other it's a good excuse to call people from America Jr. Americans.

And of course if Alex Jones is correct, which he most certainly is, we'll all be NAUians in a few years anyway. So it's a moot point.

See that is what I was wondering, are these people call themselves USian citizens of the United States of Mexico?

Never knew we had so many people from the country on these forums.

But really if someone comes for the USA just call them Ynaks or Seppos then everyone knows ho we ar talking about.
I don't mind it when Brits or Canadians or Kiwis or Aussies call American Yanks. Everytime I've heard it used it's been in more of a playfully negative way, and it's funny. Only they can do it though.

But being offended by it is a bit like someone named Robert getting offended if someone called him Bob.

I've known people like that. My friend Richard gets PISSED when people call him Dick for example. My friend Anthony hates being called Tony too.

I don't mind it when Brits or Canadians or Kiwis or Aussies call American Yanks. Everytime I've heard it used it's been in more of a playfully negative way, and it's funny. Only they can do it though.

^


This. I don't mind it much either, since I more find it amusing when I point out to them that I am not a "yank". I'm from the South, where being called "yankee" is grounds for fightin' :tongue:

And you probably wouldn't get pissed off right away. But if you clearly told that person that you're name wasn't Bob, but rather Robert, yet he kept calling you Bob just because he wanted to piss you off . . .

Well, see where I'm getting at? On forums, that's called flame-baiting.

lol.Whatever gets you through the night I suppose. I just don't see why it's worth getting worked up about. You're the one who controls whether it pisses you off. Don't let it phase you, and he loses his cheap shot.

See that is what I was wondering, are these people call themselves USian citizens of the United States of Mexico?

Never knew we had so many people from the country on these forums.

But really if someone comes for the USA just call them Ynaks or Seppos then everyone knows ho we ar talking about.

are there in fact any people who can't figure out what USian refers to? really?!

are there in fact any people who can't figure out what USian refers to? really?!
I'd ask the same thing of calling Americans 'Americans'. . .
^


This. I don't mind it much either, since I more find it amusing when I point out to them that I am not a "yank". I'm from the South, where being called "yankee" is grounds for fightin' :tongue:
Haha, yeah. In America, I'm not a yankee at all, but once I set foot in Europe I'm a "damn Yank" . . . to be honest I love it. :p It amuses me. One summer I was hanging out with a Kiwi friend in Europe and we always went back and forth at each other, with him going on about "the yanks" and me going on about his ridiculously out-of-place proper English that at times I couldn't understand. :D

I don't mind it when Brits or Canadians or Kiwis or Aussies call American Yanks. Everytime I've heard it used it's been in more of a playfully negative way, and it's funny. Only they can do it though.

Always a playfully negative way same as when we call the kiwis sheep shagers. :)

I'd ask the same thing of calling Americans 'Americans'. . .

Haha, yeah. In America, I'm not a yankee at all, but once I set foot in Europe I'm a "damn Yank" . . . to be honest I love it. :p It amuses me. One summer I was hanging out with a Kiwi friend in Europe and we always went back and forth at each other, with him going on about "the yanks" and me going on about his ridiculously out-of-place proper English that at times I couldn't understand. :DYou're making my head hurt. If you can laugh off 'yank' which could be more readily connected to an insult, why can't you laugh off 'USian?'

are there in fact any people who can't figure out what USian refers to? really?!

Are there in fact any people who don't see a joke when they are given one? Really?!

Or more to the point

Are there in fact any people who can't figure out when you use the term American exactly who you might be talking about if it is from the USA or from the Americas? Really?!

Always a playfully negative way same as when we call the kiwis sheep shagers. :)

I thought that was the Scots.

I thought that was the Scots.

haha aye but not down these parts.

I thought that was the Scots.

No. That's the Welsh.

(Who, ironically, labor under the deluded belief their country is called Cymru or someshit).

The Caledonians have a whole set of entirely different issues.

I'd ask the same thing of calling Americans 'Americans'. . .

i know what it refers to. i just think it is stupid, since the 'of america' part was just because we didn't have a name for the country when we decided to become one. we were a bunch of states in america that united. canada was invited to join, for fuck's sake. since we never got around to coming up with an actual name for our united people (as opposed to the various wisconsinites and californians and michiganders, etc) other than as members of the united states, USian it is.

You're making my head hurt. If you can laugh of 'yank' which could be more readily connected to an insult, why can't you laugh off 'USian?'
Because 'yank' as a term does not seek to replace the word 'American'. Yank can be used as a joke or, less often, as a real insult, but it is not part of an agenda to replace 'American'. Just because someone says "bloody yanks and their guns" doesn't mean they won't later say "yeah my American friend etc etc . . . " while someone who uses the term 'USian' uses it to replace 'American', and not as a joke.

i know what it refers to. i just think it is stupid, since the 'of america' part was just because we didn't have a name for the country when we decided to become one. we were a bunch of states in america that united. canada was invited to join, for fuck's sake. since we never got around to coming up with an actual name for our united people (as opposed to the various wisconsinites and californians and michiganders, etc) other than as members of the united states, USian it is.
Historically, sure. But it's evolved into something different than it was those hundreds of years ago, and whether it be the CIA (or wiki :p) stating that the correct term for someone of the USA is "American", or the various presidents who have started their speeches addressing us, as a people, with "my fellow Americans" . . . or simply the fact that "American cars, American mass media, American culture, American food etc etc etc" all describe things from the United States of America.

If you wish to be so progressive, and I know you do, you might start by not living in the past.

Historically, sure. But it's evolved into something different than it was those hundreds of years ago, and whether it be the CIA (or wiki :p) stating that the correct term for someone of the USA is "American", or the various presidents who have started their speeches addressing us, as a people, with "my fellow Americans" . . . or simply the fact that "American cars, American mass media, American culture, American food etc etc etc" all describe things from the United States of America.

If you wish to be so progressive, and I know you do, you might start by not living in the past.

USia is the wave of the future. also, fun to say.

Henceforth, until the "USian" fad stops, I shall refer to British as nothing other than "UKians", Canadians as "DoCians", Australians as "CoAians", French as "FRians", Germans as "FRians", Irish as "Drunkardians", and Russians as "RFians".

Just to prove a point. And to be a dick.

Henceforth, until the "USian" fad stops, I shall refer to British as nothing other than "UKians", Canadians as "DoCians", Australians as "CoAians", French as "FRians", Germans as "FRians", Irish as "Drunkardians", and Russians as "RFians".

Just to prove a point. And to be a dick.

You won't do it. The OLD Wanderjar would, though.

Henceforth, until the "USian" fad stops, I shall refer to British as nothing other than "UKians", Canadians as "DoCians", Australians as "CoAians", French as "FRians", Germans as "FRians", Irish as "Drunkardians", and Russians as "RFians".

Just to prove a point. And to be a dick.

No no dude, you have to call all people from EU countries EUns or something like that.

Henceforth, until the "USian" fad stops, I shall refer to British as nothing other than "UKians", Canadians as "DoCians", Australians as "CoAians", French as "FRians", Germans as "FRians", Irish as "Drunkardians", and Russians as "RFians".

Just to prove a point. And to be a dick.

Nah, don't. You're better than that. It's not right when they do it and it's not right when you do it. Furthermore, the vast majority of Brits, Canadians, Aussies, Frenchies, Germans, Irish and Russians have never even heard of the term 'USian', let alone use it.

Just because someone says "bloody yanks and their guns" doesn't mean they won't later say "yeah my American friend etc etc . . . " while someone who uses the term 'USian' uses it to replace 'American', and not as a joke.

Whether it "catches on" or not is far beyond your control, TAI. Languages have no concern for ONE speaker. If they change, they change. If you fight against it, fun to watch though it may be, you begin to look more and more like Emperor Norton fighting against the word "Frisco".

Also, the terms African-American, Asian-American, Black-American, Native-American, Cuban-American, Italian-American, while not exactly my favorite, are still commonly used, acceptable english words to describe specefic ethnic groups who are Americans.

People debating against the term "American" seem to forget that. ;)

Yes, we know you're racist, TAI.

Nah, don't. You're better than that. It's not right when they do it and it's not right when you do it. Furthermore, the vast majority of Brits, Canadians, Aussies, Frenchies, Germans, Irish and Russians have never even heard of the term 'USian', let alone use it.

Eh, its just an empty threat, I'm going to lose interest in this within the hour :tongue:

@Gun Manufacturers: What "Old Wanderjar"? I didn't think I had died off and become reborn ;)

USia is the wave of the future. also, fun to say.
lol . .. nah, my Anglo-Alliance is the wave of the future.

We shall all be called Anglos. Good? Settled? I don't see how that could possibly any problems whatsoever.

lol . .. nah, my Anglo-Alliance is the wave of the future.

We shall all be called Anglos. Good? Settled? I don't see how that could possibly any problems whatsoever.

Just don't expect us to be called "AAians." :p

Eh, its just an empty threat, I'm going to lose interest in this within the hour :tongue:

@Gun Manufacturers: What "Old Wanderjar"? I didn't think I had died off and become reborn ;)

You changed, man. You changed.



:p

i know what it refers to. i just think it is stupid, since the 'of america' part was just because we didn't have a name for the country when we decided to become one. we were a bunch of states in america that united. canada was invited to join, for fuck's sake. since we never got around to coming up with an actual name for our united people (as opposed to the various wisconsinites and californians and michiganders, etc) other than as members of the united states, USian it is.
If I remember correctly, weren't we the first actual country in the Americas? (Barring the former indigenous countries like the Incan Empire or the Iroquois Nation.) All the other territory were colonies of one sort or another at the time. Thus "United States of America" probably seemed like a very logical choice, and Americans followed that naturally.

Eh, its just an empty threat, I'm going to lose interest in this within the hour :tongue:

@Gun Manufacturers: What "Old Wanderjar"? I didn't think I had died off and become reborn ;)

He might be referring to that time you died and I used voodoo to resurre-

I mean...um...yeah, what "Old Wanderjar?"

Whether it "catches on" or not is far beyond your control, TAI.
It's fine, Heikoku. I have never, not once, not in any country nor city nor town I've ever set foot in, heard the term 'USian'. In fact, the only place I've ever heard it was on NSG. So please, don't act like a few nerds trying to be stealthy in their anti-Americanisms is "the evolution of the language" . . . it's quite laughable. :p
Yes, we know you're racist, TAI.
lol, wut?

You changed, man. You changed.



:p

Hopefully for the better...

:D

Yes, we know you're racist, TAI.

How...in...the...HELL...could that be interpreted as being in the slightest bit racist? I fail to see it.

Whether it "catches on" or not is far beyond your control, TAI. Languages have no concern for ONE speaker. If they change, they change. If you fight against it, fun to watch though it may be, you begin to look more and more like Emperor Norton fighting against the word "Frisco".

Yeah. But it's not like anyone important uses USian.

How...in...the...HELL...could that be interpreted as being in the slightest bit racist? I fail to see it.
lol, I get used to it . . . :rolleyes:

Yeah. But it's not like anyone important uses USian.

Does God, I mean, Heikoku 2, use it? :D

lol, I get used to it . . . :rolleyes:


Join the club mate, noone gets called racist on this forum more than I do. :tongue:

Join the club mate, noone gets called racist on this forum more than I do. :tongue:

Raci-

*dies*

Does God, I mean, Heikoku 2, use it? :D

Haha.

Nah, God's an American.

Though I have to say, I heartily approve of the mean spiritedness of the whole USian thing. Shows nerds in their true light.

Raci-

*dies*

Aha! That poison, anti-dissention pill I implanted in your brain worked! Mwahaha...no longer shall I deal with those who oppose me!

I prefer the term appalachian-american. thank you very much.

Haha.

Nah, God's an American.

Though I have to say, I heartily approve of the mean spiritedness of the whole USian thing. Shows nerds in their true light.

The Pope is German, Jesus is English, but God is an American. :D

If I remember correctly, weren't we the first actual country in the Americas? (Barring the former indigenous countries like the Incan Empire or the Iroquois Nation.) All the other territory were colonies of one sort or another at the time. Thus "United States of America" probably seemed like a very logical choice, and Americans followed that naturally.

yeah. but originally the revolutionaries were calling themselves the united colonies of north america. basically, we never came up with a name for ourselves at all, and then got lazy.

only after they stopped calling themselves the united colonies of north america.


....they NEVER referred to themselves as that.

Also, isn't your name an oxymoron? Free Soviets I mean...since the Soviet people were a lot of things, free ain't one of 'em.

If you think "American" is bad because it ignores most of the continents, you must also oppose USer, since it does not mention *which* United States you are referring to.

And why was "Gringos" not mentioned :p ?
The correct term is "gabacho."-.-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabacho
I asked a question earlier. Is USAmerican okay?

Because I am not going to use the term American. Sorry. Not going to do it. My English has become too international, and I am too used to thinking in more than one language for that term to sit right with me.

As for your reasoning for getting all offended, it seems rather forced, just like it always has.
I like USAmerican. My big problem with USian is "United States" isn't our name. Granted, our founding fathers were lazy when they went high- concept, but it's a name we are unfortunately stuck with.

USAian would be okay too. Maybe one could use USAmerican in speech, but shorten it to USAian when writing?
Let's go for a compromise and just call 'em Yanks. Or Septics, if you like rhyming slang.
I've always been a fan of Yank or Yankee (but not The Yankees). It was the original name given to the inhabitants of the soon-to-be USA, so it makes sense.

The correct term is "gabacho."-.-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabacho

I like USAmerican. My big problem with USian is "United States" isn't our name. Granted, our founding fathers were lazy when they went high- concept, but it's a name we are unfortunately stuck with.

USAian would be okay too. Maybe one could use USAmerican in speech, but shorten it to USAian when writing?

I've always been a fan of Yank or Yankee (but not The Yankees). It was the original name given to the inhabitants of the soon-to-be USA, so it makes sense.


I don't like USAmerican. And I'm sorry Neesika, but your "Internationalism" is irrelevant. We're Americans, get used to it. Noone else in the world has that title.

Ut oh, good point. "USAer"?

The United States of Africa?

....they NEVER referred to themselves as that.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/arms.asp
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq59-5.htm
http://www.archive.org/details/addressoftwelveu00unit

Also, isn't your name an oxymoron? Free Soviets I mean...since the Soviet people were a lot of things, free ain't one of 'em.

no. look it up.

It's fine, Heikoku. I have never, not once, not in any country nor city nor town I've ever set foot in, heard the term 'USian'. In fact, the only place I've ever heard it was on NSG. So please, don't act like a few nerds trying to be stealthy in their anti-Americanisms is "the evolution of the language" . . . it's quite laughable. :p

1- Then you don't really need to worry. I'm pointing out that language evolves and works quite independently of your view or of theirs.

2- I myself don't use it. I gain nothing by using it, and it's convenient for me to keep using the usual term.

3- You're using the bolded buzzword and its similars at the drop of a hat these days. After they've been thoroughly discredited. Even, recently, against me, you know, the guy that makes a living off the fact that America's language is ubiquitous (but, to be fair, I'm pretty sure you, great arguer that you are to need to resort to such tricks, were merely trying to get a reaction out of me). It's cute. In a way. After a fashion. Even cuter by the guy who tried to get someone's "USian" modded because it was "intended to annoy him". But, hey, who's counting.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/arms.asp



no. look it up.


Whats there to look up? The Soviet government was among the most repressive in human history. I think my Grandfather, who fought in the Bolshevik Revolution and later fled the USSR (under Stalin), would differ from your opinion quite completely.

Whats there to look up?

what my name refers to

what my name refers to


I just did. I only found a link talking about the Free Soil Party of 1848.

I just did. I only found a link talking about the Free Soil Party of 1848.

try it again, because you clearly misspelled it

They are allowed to consider themselves as both. And as Terrans/Earthlings as well even - an honour Americans share ;)

I say Americans beat everyone to the punch and start calling ourselves Terran.

yeah. but originally the revolutionaries were calling themselves the united colonies of north america. basically, we never came up with a name for ourselves at all, and then got lazy.

It happens a lot here...
(How do I always seem to join in arguments/debates when they are over?)

I don't like USAmerican. And I'm sorry Neesika, but your "Internationalism" is irrelevant. We're Americans, get used to it. Noone else in the world has that title.

Yes, we are. But Canadians, Mexicans, Guatamalens, Chileans, ect are also Americans.

Yes, we are. But Canadians, Mexicans, Guatamalens, Chileans, ect are also Americans.

Yes, and you should be able to tell who I am referring to based on context.
If it is nationality then more then like American = citizen of the Untied States.
If the conversation steers to colonialism or some continent issue then American is likely being used in the more broadly defined way. Is it really so hard that you have to make up a word fragment just to understand the usage?

Yes, and you should be able to tell who I am referring to based on context.
If it is nationality then more then like American = citizen of the Untied States.
If the conversation steers to colonialism or some continent issue then American is likely being used in the more broadly defined way. Is it really so hard that you have to make up a word fragment just to understand the usage?

That's only true within the US. Outside the US it totally depends on the country. Some places I've traveled I've been referred to as an "American" and in others I'm "from the USA." When I read international papers they often use "United States" or U.S. like a title (eg the U.S. president), while that same paper will refer to the German PM.

For the record, as I previously stated I'm all for the original term used to describe the European inhabitants of the territory now know as the U.S.A.: Yankee.

Henceforth, until the "USian" fad stops, I shall refer to British as nothing other than "UKians"<...snip...>

Well, if it stops you calling all of us "English" then fine...


;)

Also, it is good to see that after an extended hiatus from NSG, we are still arguing over the use of "USian"

For the record, as I previously stated I'm all for the original term used to describe the European inhabitants of the territory now know as the U.S.A.: Yankee.

I'll be damned if I let anyone refer to me as a 'Yankee.' I don't think I've ever spent more than a week at a time above the Mason-Dixon line in my entire life.

the replacement is semi-logical. the pride is somewhat less so.

I'll be damned if I let anyone refer to me as a 'Yankee.' I don't think I've ever spent more than a week at a time above the Mason-Dixon line in my entire life.

That was not the original use of the word. It was originally used to denote someone who resided in the USA, then it was used to denote someone who lived in New England. It was over a hundred years later it aquired your definition.

That was not the original use of the word. It was originally used to denote someone who resided in the USA, then it was used to denote someone who lived in New England. It was over a hundred years later it aquired your definition.

I thought it was originally used by the English settlers to refer to the dutch settlers.

You're right, it doesn't. Intent matters. GoG used the term in a deliberately insulting way; therefore, it was an insult. If someone uses it in a non-deliberately insulting way, then it's not an insult.

So, if I call you an Injun, but not in an attempt to insult you, it's not an insult, right?

A word cannot have an "instrinsic attitude of contempt." A word is just a word. Any "attitude" attached to it is done purely by the speaker and the listener.

I'd say that's partially right. I've been called "American" and the way the person says it, I can tell they totally mean it derogatorily.

I think it depends on the orgins of the word. It doesn't matter how a non-black person says "n*gger," it's always going to cause offense.

Yossarians?

USsars! The non-aspirated variant of the Hussars!

(seriously, US-American, or US American, seem to be the most viable options)

I thought it was originally used by the English settlers to refer to the dutch settlers.
It might have, the orgins of the word are apparently murky.
A Yankee, according to the British, is someone of United States origin or heritage.
Or it might have originally meant a person from New England.

Or it could have just applied to the Dutch in New England.

It could have done all if the above in verying order. It definately, however, has been used in the first definition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee

How...in...the...HELL...could that be interpreted as being in the slightest bit racist? I fail to see it.

He named a whole bunch of terms as not being his favorite. Said terms were ethnic naming terms. Given his past history, one can presume it means he prefers to use the racial slurs.

We could also use USAtanians.

That was not the original use of the word. It was originally used to denote someone who resided in the USA, then it was used to denote someone who lived in New England. It was over a hundred years later it aquired your definition.

Still don't like it as applied to yours truly.

Still don't like it as applied to yours truly.
Doesn't make it an invalid term. When I was a child, I didn't like being called a girl. It didn't mean I wasn't one.

Doesn't make it an invalid term. When I was a child, I didn't like being called a girl. It didn't mean I wasn't one.

I'll remember that next time someone whines about 'retard' or 'cripple' or whatever-the-hell.

USsars! The non-aspirated variant of the Hussars!

(seriously, US-American, or US American, seem to be the most viable options)

USsars is really close to USSR. OMG!1!! :eek: Commie plot!!1!

I'll remember that next time someone whines about 'retard' or 'cripple' or whatever-the-hell.

Except Yankee isn't derogatory.

Except Yankee isn't derogatory.

As far as I'm concerned, as applied to me, it is.

As far as I'm concerned, as applied to me, it is.

With no rational basis. Now, if you were New England Dutch, you'd actually have a rational basis for your argument. Seeing as how you aren't, it makes as much sense as me feeling "girl" was derogatory when I was a child.

The problem with the term Yankee isn't that it is derogatory(I never thought it could be) but that it carries a very specific connotation in American culture, referring to a specific region of our country. Thus it would be rather silly to use it to refer to any and all of us.

With no rational basis. Now, if you were New England Dutch, you'd actually have a rational basis for your argument. Seeing as how you aren't, it makes as much sense as me feeling "girl" was derogatory when I was a child.

Why be a bitch? Are you that bored? I've said I don't like it as applied to me personally, why insist on it? I'm not required to give a reason, or have a rational basis for it. I have the same right to object to a designation that is applied to me that I don't like as anybody does.

The problem with the term Yankee isn't that it is derogatory(I never thought it could be) but that it carries a very specific connotation in American culture, referring to a specific region of our country. Thus it would be rather silly to use it to refer to any and all of us.

But it's common usuage outside the US to refer to all USA citizens as Yankees. Isn't it just as silly for us to insist on being called "Americans" even though it's not understood world-wide American = USA Citizen?

I realize that last part wasn't part of your original argument, I'm just drawing a parallel.

But, I am saying that when the term was first used, menacingly or not, several US Americans were offended by the term...
When was the term first used anyway?

You're right, it doesn't. Intent matters. GoG used the term in a deliberately insulting way; therefore, it was an insult. If someone uses it in a non-deliberately insulting way, then it's not an insult.

So, if I call you an Injun, but not in an attempt to insult you, it's not an insult, right?

A word cannot have an "instrinsic attitude of contempt." A word is just a word. Any "attitude" attached to it is done purely by the speaker and the listener.
But again, the term n.igger... Why is it seen as offensive when it's used by a white person even if that person has no intention to be offensive, while it's not seen as offensive when used by a black person - even sometimes when that person intends to cause offense?

Really? Wow, you have such a nice view of your country. So far, calling someone a person from the US, i.e. USian, has been compared to the anus, a bag from a feminine hygiene device, being incredibly stupid, and various other negative things. And this was all by Americans. Hmmm... perhaps the issue isn't that USian is a big, bad term, but that some Americans have complexes about their country and how the rest of the world views it.
:tongue:
With all due respect, bullshit. Words have meanings and history. Recognizing context, meanings, and history is not illogical.

There are a number of words specifically designed and historically used to denigrate minorities. Criticizing the use of such language as offensive is not the same as "I don't like word X, so don't use it."

Citizens of the United States are not and have not been oppressed as a class and, although it is sometimes used in a derogatory manner, "USian" simply lacks a history of offensiveness.

Personally, as a manner of politeness, I think one should refrain from calling someone else any term that they know the other person finds offensive. But that does not mean "Usian" becomes the equivalent of "faggot" and "******."

Again, this conversation is particulary ridiculous in an atmosphere in which mere suggestions to improve language are roundly criticized as "political correctness gone mad" and "Orwellian newspeak" and threads about "that's so gay" are spammed with "that's so gay."
:fluffle: I can only agree.

It's exactly that hyperbole that annoys me. People say oh no we don't mean you're part of any conspiracy...then go right back to suggesting you are.

It's like getting all worked up about someone calling you Puddles.
That's Mr. Duck to you!

Because 'yank' as a term does not seek to replace the word 'American'. Yank can be used as a joke or, less often, as a real insult, but it is not part of an agenda to replace 'American'. Just because someone says "bloody yanks and their guns" doesn't mean they won't later say "yeah my American friend etc etc . . . " while someone who uses the term 'USian' uses it to replace 'American', and not as a joke.
Being a little bit paranoid, are we? Seeing conspiracies all over the place?

Perhaps its because the name of our country is "America"? The national title is "United States of" but not the name.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, ensure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I think the official name is the United States of America. And America is often left out of the name entirely. The US department of State describes the Great Seal of the United States as being created after the Continental Congress of the newly independent United States passed a resolution.
http://www.bradwoods.org/eagles/images/seal.gif

The House doorkeeper loudly announces: “Mr. Speaker, the President of the United States" when the President is about to give his State of the Union address - as did the Speaker of the House. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDe6CeRW744)

They sure can be sloppy if it's true that the official name is America. You should write your congressperson - you'll find him or her in the US House of Representatives (http://www.house.gov/). (Not to be mistaken for the US Senate, something I don't think the Supreme Court of The United States has ever done...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Seal_of_the_United_States_Supreme_Court.svg/150px-Seal_of_the_United_States_Supreme_Court.svg.png )

That's retarded.

That's retarded.

What is? Why? What's your objections, your arguments? Do you have anything to offer this thread?

What is? Why? What's your objections, your arguments? Do you have anything to offer this thread?

Calling someone USain or whatever. It's like when someone calls someone from the UK a Ukian, that pisses me off.

Calling someone USain or whatever. It's like when someone calls someone from the UK a Ukian, that pisses me off.

Why?

It's truly awesome how pissed off this thing makes people. Especially the pro USian side.

Calling someone USain or whatever. It's like when someone calls someone from the UK a Ukian, that pisses me off.
When has that ever happened? :confused:

It's truly awesome how pissed off this thing makes people. Especially the pro USian side.
Silly colonials. :tongue:

When has that ever happened? :confused:

It happens from time to time... And for a long time...

As a point of information, I'm UKian, not USian. I personally enjoy a gun-free culture and have a low fear of crime.

Even though I do think Finland is totaly awesome, I dont think they are going to win: The vote isnt won by Swedish or UKian polls, after all. It is the Balkan (and south eastern Europe) that matters!

I need help from the UKians! (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12377992)

Silly colonials. :tongue:
It pisses me off to be referred to as a colonial. *is indignant*:tongue:

I already mentioned the fact that we are the only nation with America in its name, and everyone just ignored my post. :(

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14663087&postcount=90So if some other nation renamed itself as 'Humanland', could its people then insist that they were the only ones entitled to be called 'Humans'?

Why be a bitch? Are you that bored? I've said I don't like it as applied to me personally <snip>.

Snafturi doesn't like the underlined term applied to her personally, either. And "bitch" still carries some insulting connotations in the big wide world outside NSG, despite its greatly decreased shock value.

Generally, this term is used to indicate that the person is acting outside the confines of their gender roles, such as when women are assertive or aggressive, or when men are passive or servile. <snip>
Since the 1980s, the term "bitch" became more and more accepted and less offensive.
So please be careful how you use it, just as you'd like her to be careful with "Yankee".

It happens from time to time... And for a long time...


Bleugh! That was funny in it's own right too :D Must have missed that thread completely....

Why?

'Cos it's restarted. You call someone from the USofA American. You call someone from the UK British,English, Scottish, Welsh or N Irish.

'Cos it's restarted. You call someone from the USofA American. You call someone from the UK British,English, Scottish, Welsh or N Irish.

"American" is a colloquialism used in the US. Not everyone outside the US uses it or generally understands "American" to refer to citizens of the USA. Everyone on the two American continents is American, just like everyone in Europe is European. I understand why citizens of other American countries take issue with "American" being used to solely describe people from the USA.

"American" is a colloquialism used in the US. Not everyone outside the US uses it or generally understands "American" to refer to citizens of the USA. Everyone on the two American continents is American, just like everyone in Europe is European. I understand why citizens of other American countries take issue with "American" being used to solely describe people from the USA.

Canadians don't seem to like it.

Because it is an acronym. Sure the term "American" is inaccurate, but so is "pedophile"; do you complain about that?

I just hope that if the European Union becomes one government, we do not start calling its citizens "EUians".
Why not? Eeeyooooians sounds great.
What's that? the countries that make up the EU still want to be referred to by their national names? How gauche. Too bad. We'll call them.... Schnitandsqueaks.

lol

I've noticed a lot of people using the term Merkin, which in my mind is specifically used in a tongue-in-cheek manner, even by myself...why aren't people getting all pissy about that?
Because it sounds like what President Chokes-on-Pretzels used to call us. And you know that he was God's only son, come down to save us from Democrats and their liberal ways.

"My fellow 'Merkins".

Which given how he treated us and what a merkin is, is pretty stupidly ironic.


There is a precedent for calling us Americans, and we can look to our southern brothers in Mexico for it. They are the United States of Mexico, shortened, when you ask of their nationality, to Mexican. We are the United States of America, shortened when you ask of OUR nationality, to American.

So simple, even a caveman can understand it.

*is sued by a small talking gecko*

Many Central & South American spanish speakers call USians norteamericanos. Seems they can be accurate.
Which means then that we're the only North Americans?

Wow. Mexicans and Canadians must be all up in arms about that.

Except you folks are saying 'please don't use that term' no matter how the term is used. So forgive me for not believing that it's the intent, not the word.
An analogy, then.
I worked in an office and was temporarily assigned to an exec whose secretary was on leave, because my boss was also on leave.

I introduced myself, sat down, and got to work.
"Hey, sweetheart, would you get me a coffee?"
I politely reiterated what my name was.
"Hey, darling, could you take a memo?"
I politely reiterated what my name was.
"Hey, dollface..."

It was extremely annoying. I don't think he particularly cared for it either when I called him "Asshole," either.

Why is it so difficult to call people by their chosen name? It's just plain disrespectful.

No. Acronyms are not a human identifier.

How about professionally? Am I a GAO'ian? No. In academia, am I a OSU'er? No. In my state, am I a GSO'an? No. Where I grew up, an NC'ian? Again, no.

There are enough acronyms in life without someone trying to replace another perfectly fine word with another damn cluster of letters.

Cease your despoiling of the English language!

Whats septics? Never heard o that one, lol...
Cockney has a habit of creating a rhyming slang. So Septics, short for Septic Tanks, rhyming with Yanks.

Ya know, doing some web crawling and I find NO official use of USian from any nation. None what-so-ever. No government uses it to refer to citizens of the United States and instead calls us Americans when using English. I DO fins USian on blog posts, usually in a derogatory manner, but as far as the real world goes those of us from the US are Americans.

But, just to be fair, I'll make a deal. I'll change my location to USjin in Nagano-Ken when I see those posters in North and South America change their locations to America and start to refer to themselves as American in their posts.

Cockney has a habit of creating a rhyming slang. So Septics, short for Septic Tanks, rhyming with Yanks.

Not to threadjack, but I've never understood Cockney rhyming slang. I mean, I understand the concept, I just don't "get it." Like, how did everyone decide on "apples" for "stairs" and "butchers" for "looks"?

Anyway, I just compared my passport to my SO's passport. Under "nationality" it says "United States of America" not simply "American." My SO's passport has "Norwegian" listed under "nationality" and not "Norway." Given the lack of "American" in any official capacity, isn't the term a colloquialism?

Call them UKians. Teach them a lesson.
I prefer "UKkies". ;)

Not to threadjack, but I've never understood Cockney rhyming slang. I mean, I understand the concept, I just don't "get it." Like, how did everyone decide on "apples" for "stairs" and "butchers" for "looks."

Anyway, I just compared my passport to my SO's passport. Under "nationality" it says "United States of America" not simply "American." My SO's passport has "Norwegian" listed under "nationality" and not "Norway." Given the lack of "American" in any official capacity, isn't the term a colloquialism?

That's kind of weird, because mine lists the nationality as "American"

Admittedly, I have an old passport, but still, you'd think it would be fairly uniform.

USAmerican is fine. USian however, reminds me of the blindly patriotic douche nozzles that paint their pickup trucks in camo colors and drink 13 different flavors of cheap piss while believing that the World revolves around the US of A and we should just nuke everyone else. That's what I think of when I think of USian, focus on the word US that and it's an ugly sounding word when pronounced.

Anyway, I just compared my passport to my SO's passport. Under "nationality" it says "United States of America" not simply "American." My SO's passport has "Norwegian" listed under "nationality" and not "Norway." Given the lack of "American" in any official capacity, isn't the term a colloquialism?
Passport rules are strange. My wife's nationality listed on Japanese passport is Japan. However I know that the official term in Japan is Japanese (Well, literally Japan Person). That said though, there are numerous official uses of American or American citizen in both the US government and governments abroad to not make it a colloquialism.

I disagree. Funny how that works. It's almost like I'm allowed to have my own interpretation of words.
'There's glory for you!'

`I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. `Of course you don't -- till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'

`But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice objected.

`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

`The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

`The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master -- that's all.'

Alice was too much puzzled to say anything; so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. `They've a temper, some of them -- particularly verbs: they're the proudest -- adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs -- however, I can manage the whole lot of them! Impenetrability! That's what I say!'

`Would you tell me please,' said Alice, `what that means?'

`Now you talk like a reasonable child,' said Humpty Dumpty, looking very much pleased. `I meant by "impenetrability" that we've had enough of that subject, and it would be just as well if you'd mention what you mean to do next, as I suppose you don't mean to stop here all the rest of your life.'

`That's a great deal to make one word mean,' Alice said in a thoughtful tone.

`When I make a word do a lot of work like that,' said Humpty Dumpty, `I always pay it extra.'

`Oh!' said Alice. She was too much puzzled to make any other remark.

-- Through the Looking Glass, Lewis Carroll

Passport rules are strange. My wife's nationality listed on Japanese passport is Japan. However I know that the official term in Japan is Japanese (Well, literally Japan Person). That said though, there are numerous official uses of American or American citizen in both the US government and governments abroad to not make it a colloquialism.

Not as many as I originally assumed. It's the U.S. Senate not the American Senate, the U.S. Supreme court not the American Supreme Court, even in our constitution you never see America divorced from US while you will see just "United States."

@ Anda- Mine is one of the new passports, maybe they changed it.

focus on the word US that and it's an ugly sounding word when pronounced.

That's because it's an acronym. Working for the government in the national security field, I have to deal with more of them than I really care to, and I've developed a significant distaste for the dratted things. Indicative of either excessive bureaucratese or undue laziness.

@ Anda- Mine is one of the new passports, maybe they changed it.

They are really different. I've had mine since the early oughts, so that must be it.

Yes, we are. But Canadians, Mexicans, Guatamalens, Chileans, ect are also Americans.

Please explain to me how. Last time I checked, they were Canadians, Mexicans, Guatamalens, and Chileans.

Not as many as I originally assumed. It's the U.S. Senate not the American Senate, the U.S. Supreme court not the American Supreme Court, even in our constitution you never see America divorced from US while you will see just "United States."
Run a Google search on American, there's a number of American yaddayaddayaddas out there.

I thought it was originally used by the English settlers to refer to the dutch settlers.
Actually, what Dutch Settlers called English Settlers. Yankee. (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Yankee)

That's why when the English so hilariously called American rebels "Yankee Doodles" they meant it as an insult.

We just co-opted it, much as "N****r" has been co-opted in some circles.

He named a whole bunch of terms as not being his favorite. Said terms were ethnic naming terms. Given his past history, one can presume it means he prefers to use the racial slurs.


Ah, well in his defense I'll say that I generally do not recognize the terms "African-American" "Mexican-American" etc, unless the person is ACTUALLY from those places. Otherwise, in my mind, they're simply Americans. With that logic of theirs, I too am African American, for my ancestors come from South Africa.

Not as many as I originally assumed. It's the U.S. Senate not the American Senate, the U.S. Supreme court not the American Supreme Court, even in our constitution you never see America divorced from US while you will see just "United States."

@ Anda- Mine is one of the new passports, maybe they changed it.

POTUS, not POTA.
SCOTUS, not SCOTUSA.
United States Attorney General
US State dep.
United States Department of Justice.
US Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services - you know, the people who make people US citizens
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. - XIV Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
Example (http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=96719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD&vgnextchannel=96719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD)
US courts, US district courts, US court of appeals...
US army, US airforce, US navy...

CIA world factbook:
conventional long form: United States of America
conventional short form: United States
abbreviation: US or USA

"America" is suspiciously absent from the official titles and names mentioned above (and many more, probably.) Yet the people are commonly known as Americans, for some reason.

Not as many as I originally assumed. It's the U.S. Senate not the American Senate, the U.S. Supreme court not the American Supreme Court, even in our constitution you never see America divorced from US while you will see just "United States."

@ Anda- Mine is one of the new passports, maybe they changed it.

Thats because our government is the United States, but our country is America. Theres a difference. US refers to the state, where as American refers to the nation as a whole.

"America" is suspiciously absent from the official titles and names mentioned above (and many more, probably.) Yet the people are commonly known as Americans, for some reason.



Again: United States is a governmental title, not our national name. The country's name is America, not United States.

"America" is suspiciously absent from the official titles and names mentioned above (and many more, probably.) Yet the people are commonly known as Americans, for some reason.

I always assumed it has something to do with the fact that for several decades we were the only truly independent nation on this half of the globe that was also recognized by Europe.

Please explain to me how. Last time I checked, they were Canadians, Mexicans, Guatamalens, and Chileans.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/N%26SAmerica-pol.jpg/397px-N%26SAmerica-pol.jpg

Run a Google search on American, there's a number of American yaddayaddayaddas out there.
Like the American Dodgeball Association of America. :wink:

Please explain to me how. Last time I checked, they were Canadians, Mexicans, Guatamalens, and Chileans.

Because they reside on a continent called "America." It's more general that "Chilean", ect but it's still accurate. Just like how the Polish, Danish, Norwegians, ect are also Europeans.

We don't have a corner on the term "American," even our founding fathers didn't think so or else you think they'd have used "American" at least once in our constitution.

A more important question, I think, is why do people from the US get so worked up about this? It's a word. Sure, it might be stupid, it might not even be grammatically correct. It's a word, and you do not get to dictate how others use words. Language does not work that way.

You have no control over this. If people want to call you USians, they will, and you have absolutely no basis to tell them that they can't. None. At all.

With no rational basis. Now, if you were New England Dutch, you'd actually have a rational basis for your argument. Seeing as how you aren't, it makes as much sense as me feeling "girl" was derogatory when I was a child.
Except, rationally, if he still identifies with being a Southerner and the attendant feelings about "the late, Great Unpleasantness" (aka War of Northern Aggression, aka American Civil War) Yankee IS an insult.
Even a Yankee can see that.

Allright, a compromise.

Let us change the name of the United States of America into something that does not refer to an existing continent that also houses other nations. Something the "Americans" themselves could live with.

So... how about "Awesomeland" ? Then its citizens could be "Awesome people".

Again: United States is a governmental title, not our national name. The country's name is America, not United States.

So you say, but reality seems to differ.

See the constitution. I've quoted it above. See the info from the governmental websites. Quoted above. See the CIA world factbook. Quoted above.

You say it's a governmental title, but don't show it. There's nothing presented here to support your argument.

(And you don't see Denmark referring to itself as "The Kingdom" do you?)

Allright, a compromise.

Let us change the name of the United States of America into something that does not refer to an existing continent that also houses other nations. Something the "Americans" themselves could live with.

So... how about "Awesomeland" ? Then its citizens could be "Awesome people".

Or we could stop worrying about what other people think and continue to be Americans. I favour this option.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/N%26SAmerica-pol.jpg/397px-N%26SAmerica-pol.jpg


Like the American Dodgeball Association of America. :wink:

Okay, I see America, Canada, Mexico, Chile, and Guatamala. Whats your point?

Allright, a compromise.

Let us change the name of the United States of America into something that does not refer to an existing continent that also houses other nations. Something the "Americans" themselves could live with.

So... how about "Awesomeland" ? Then its citizens could be "Awesome people".

If I could be a superhero
I would be awesome man
I’d fly around the world fighting crime
According to my awesome plan
And if I saw criminals trying to lie
Hurting other people and making them cry
I’d haul them off to jail in my awesome van
‘Cause I would be awesome man

Run a Google search on American, there's a number of American yaddayaddayaddas out there.
But we have no government offices named "American" such-and-such. I agree it's a term in common use within the US, and in some regions outside the US. It's just not exculsively used or understood as such.

Edit: The embassies are even referred to as US Embassies. Depending on the country I'm in, I might get a curious look if I asked to be pointed to the "American" embassy, whereas if I asked where the "U.S." embassy was everyone would know what I'm asking for.

Thats because our government is the United States, but our country is America. Theres a difference. US refers to the state, where as American refers to the nation as a whole.

No, our full title is the United States of America. We are the united states on the continent of America. Right now I reside in the Kingdom of Norway, but they don't refer to their parliment as "The Kingdom" Parliment, they don't refer to their supreme court as "The Kingdom" Supreme Court.

Okay, I see America, Canada, Mexico, Chile, and Guatamala. Whats your point?

What continent are these countries on?

Or we could stop worrying about what other people think and continue to be Americans. I favour this option.

Of course. But no objections then if the citizens of the united states of Mexico also ask to be adressed in that manner ;)

So you say, but reality seems to differ.

See the constitution. I've quoted it above. See the info from the governmental websites. Quoted above. See the CIA world factbook. Quoted above.

You say it's a governmental title, but don't show it. There's nothing presented here to support your argument.

(And you don't see Denmark referring to itself as "The Kingdom" do you?)


The CIA chooses to write the conventional shortform as US simply because thats the most commonly used descriptor for the nation. But its people are still Americans. But, I don't see what the point of arguing this is. This is America, we are Americans. Thats the way it is, thats the way its going to be forever.

If I could be a superhero
I would be awesome man
I’d fly around the world fighting crime
According to my awesome plan
And if I saw criminals trying to lie
Hurting other people and making them cry
I’d haul them off to jail in my awesome van
‘Cause I would be awesome man

And instead of the axis of evil, you'd hate some doctor named Bob.
See ? No downside.

Of course. But no objections then if the citizens of the united states of Mexico also ask to be adressed in that manner ;)

Or we could tell them to kindly fuck off, for we care very little about what they think.

Incase you haven't noticed, I loathe internationalism ;)

What continent are these countries on?

North America and South America respectively. Still doesn't make them American. I know if I called my ultra-nationalistic Peruvian friend American he'd sock me.

They aren't Americans. Never have been, never will be...unless the people move here (hopefully legally..but thats another matter) and establish permenant residency/citizenship.

No, our full title is the United States of America. We are the united states on the continent of America. Right now I reside in the Kingdom of Norway, but they don't refer to their parliment as "The Kingdom" Parliment, they don't refer to their supreme court as "The Kingdom" Supreme Court.

Not so.

The CIA chooses to write the conventional shortform as US simply because thats the most commonly used descriptor for the nation.
Sure... Hence why their maps (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/reference_maps/jpg/north_america.jpg)only lists the United States too.

But its people are still Americans. But, I don't see what the point of arguing this is.
Neither do I, really, since you're unable to support your arguments.


This is America, we are Americans. Thats the way it is, thats the way its going to be forever.
Your government disagrees with you.

North America and South America respectively. Still doesn't make them American.
Why not?

Not so.

Oooh, hard-hitting argument there. Very persuasive.

And instead of the axis of evil, you'd hate some doctor named Bob.
See ? No downside.

Yeah.



Fuck Bob!

I already had a suggestion as to why they call us Americans...

Except, rationally, if he still identifies with being a Southerner and the attendant feelings about "the late, Great Unpleasantness" (aka War of Northern Aggression, aka American Civil War) Yankee IS an insult.
Even a Yankee can see that.

I'm not trying to be dense, but I just don't see it that way. You have a term that was used to describe all of the US or just New England or just Dutch in New England depending on the source of your info. Then the Civil War happened and the southerners decided to call the northerners Yankees. Then, the term went back to referring to people of New England. All the while, the countries outside the US, that called it's citizens Yankees still referred to all US citizens as Yankees.

Not so.

Wat.

A more important question, I think, is why do people from the US get so worked up about this? It's a word. Sure, it might be stupid, it might not even be grammatically correct. It's a word, and you do not get to dictate how others use words. Language does not work that way.

You have no control over this. If people want to call you USians, they will, and you have absolutely no basis to tell them that they can't. None. At all.
Like how people don't like to be called Scotch when they are Scots ?

Allright, a compromise.

Let us change the name of the United States of America into something that does not refer to an existing continent that also houses other nations. Something the "Americans" themselves could live with.

So... how about "Awesomeland" ? Then its citizens could be "Awesome people".
I may vomit.
Just call us by our chosen name.

So can I start referring to the Dutch as Nether People?

Like how people don't like to be called Scotch when they are Scots ?
... or people that live on the Island of Great Britain don't like being called British...

Usian souns like something you'd find in the bowels.

Escept, technically, Mexico is also technically the United States of Mexico, therefore your point is moot. The term "United States of" is not the actual name of the country, it's the preface. "America" is the actual name of the country, so America is what it should be called.

Just like in Congo. The name of their country isn't "The Democratic Republic of", that is the preface. Their name is Congo.


It shouldn't be USer, (edit: or USian) it should be American. I am not offended by the term (I don't see why I would be), but it doesn't make sense. Your previously stated point is moot (since Mexico is also the US) and, as I said, US is not the country, it's the preface to the name of the country. You live in The United States of America, so you are an American.

Like how people don't like to be called Scotch when they are Scots ?

I don't get annoyed by that. That'd be hypocritical, considering I think it's unfathomably stupid that you're annoyed by USian.

I may vomit.
Just call us by our chosen name.

Why are you under the illusion that you get a choice here? You do not dictate language, convention dictates language. If convention shifts to using USian, then that's what you'll be called. There is no choice here, stop kidding yourself.

Allright, a compromise.

Let us change the name of the United States of America into something that does not refer to an existing continent that also houses other nations. Something the "Americans" themselves could live with.

So... how about "Awesomeland" ? Then its citizens could be "Awesome people".

Thats alreday taken by Sweden, we just haven't told you. Since we are so awsome :)

On a more serius note, the function of a language is to be able to communicate with other people. Since "americans" has been used to describe people from the USA for a long time, "everyone" understand who you are refering too. If a mexican on the other side called himself an american people would assume he was from the USA.

Thats alreday taken by Sweden, we just haven't told you. Since we are so awsome :)

On a more serius note, the function of a language is to be able to communicate with other people. Since "americans" has been used to describe people from the USA for a long time, "everyone" understand who you are refering too. If a mexican on the other side called himself an american people would assume he was from the USA.

That's only true for people within the U.S., it's not universally understood.

OP: At least go with USAn >_> (I'd pronounce it YOO-sahn, if you care)

(I apologize if someone already psoted this, as I have a cold and lack the energy to read through 25 pages on this...)

That's only true for people within the U.S., it's not universally understood.

In sweden it is, we call them "amerikaner" (no need to translate that...) not "people from USA". I have never heard anyone from any other place call them anything else then "americans" either, and I have been in a lot of places.

Thats alreday taken by Sweden, we just haven't told you. Since we are so awsome :)

Incorrect. You stole the term from Germany. :p

In sweden it is, we call them "amerikaner" (no need to translate that...) not "people from USA". I have never heard anyone from any other place call them anything else then "americans" either, and I have been in a lot of places.

Yeah, they call them "amerikaner" in Germany too. American is pretty much internationally understood.

There is a precedent for calling us Americans, and we can look to our southern brothers in Mexico for it. They are the United States of Mexico, shortened, when you ask of their nationality, to Mexican. We are the United States of America, shortened when you ask of OUR nationality, to American.

So simple, even a caveman can understand it.

doesn't work, because mexico is the name of the country, while the name of this country is the united states. basically, you are confusing which part of the long form name is relevant.

doesn't work, because mexico is the name of the country, while the name of this country is the united states. basically, you are confusing which part of the long form name is relevant.

No, you are confusing them. The name of the country is America, not the United States.

POTUS, not POTA.
SCOTUS, not SCOTUSA.
United States Attorney General
US State dep.
United States Department of Justice.
US Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services - you know, the people who make people US citizens

Example (http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=96719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD&vgnextchannel=96719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD)
US courts, US district courts, US court of appeals...
US army, US airforce, US navy...

CIA world factbook:


"America" is suspiciously absent from the official titles and names mentioned above (and many more, probably.) Yet the people are commonly known as Americans, for some reason.
it calls itself america because it wants to have a one word name. conventional is the keyword. conventional seems to mean international. it's the internet people and it's an americanism according to my dictionary to call the country america. british people use it sometimes, though. i saw in a magazine something from a sign in britain. the sign said "Come home, America. All is forgiven."

Why are you under the illusion that you get a choice here? You do not dictate language, convention dictates language. If convention shifts to using USian, then that's what you'll be called. There is no choice here, stop kidding yourself.

Katganastan is a teacher, she dictates language!

No, you are confusing them. The name of the country is America, not the United States.

you are just wrong. see:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14665486&postcount=456

Incorrect. You stole the term from Germany. :p

Well, if you leave it unlocked outside your house you are just asking for it...