NationStates Jolt Archive

Nope, the stars don't align properly. Look behind the planet in the BSG one: you can see the top two stars of Orion, with the belt obscured by the sun. In reality, from Jupiter's perspective, the sun never passes through Orion. All that means is that they're near Earth (they are), but that planet isn't in the Solar System.

I have no doubt that you're right... The only question is, did the people setting up the shot know that? ;)

I've avoided every post in this topic, just FYI. I've only just began watching the show, in fact. As we speak, I'm only on episode 6 of the 1st season, so there's no way I'll be able to finish in time for the final episode.

That said, I love everything I've seen so far. I started determined to like Baltar the most, having already a brief knowledge of his character path. But Apollo won me over with his general good-guy-ness (and Helo's doing a pretty good job himself).

Welcome to the gang! You're in for a helluva ride. That said, I'm now going to say something you shouldn't read as a newcomer, so stop here! :)

*****************************************

The planet in the beginning of that last episode was Earth.

From the Battlestar Wiki (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Daybreak,_Part_I):


In that image of the planet, Antarctica is clearly seen, specifically the Ronne Ice Shelf, Queen Maud Land, and the Antarctic Peninsula. Where southern South America and southern Africa would be, the surface is covered by clouds, and the location of southern Australia/New Zealand is too dark. Although not as recognizable as the image of North America in Crossroads, Part II, it is clear that the planet shown here is our Earth.

Hm. Seems like perhaps the fleet hasn't been there yet after all... I mean, given the episode's title as "Daybreak, Part I" it seems unlikely that such pretty and hopeful imagery would be associated with the uninhabitable wasteland we saw on the "Earth" they've been to...

...BUT then again, if those were supposed to be images of Caprica leading up to the flashbacks, then we have an interesting problem to figure out:

-Were these meant to be generic images of a planet that were taken from real life and used to REPRESENT Caprica? Or is it possible that Caprica and Earth are actually the same world, but the names have changed? Or maybe those images weren't meant to be Caprica in the first place?

Hm. Seems like perhaps the fleet hasn't been there yet after all...
What?

You're suggesting that, in the space of 2 hours, that half the fleet is going to go to the Cylon colony, battle, resolve the Hera storyline, resolve all other storylines, find out who Daniel is (Kara's Dad?) AND then find (a new) Earth?

Seems like far too much.

They'll figure out a way to get Baltar in there. And I'm not sure all of them are in for a happy ending.

I dunno, I think some of the characters are capable of having a happy ending independent of their own survival.

Bill Adama being the obvious. The woman he loves is dying, his son has begun to chart his own course, Starbuck is reaching her revelation, and the fleet is either on the threshold of salvation or frackage, with or without Bill Adama. In fact, in the process, he's even grown, and shaved off, a mustache. He's a character ready for the reaper.

As is Laura Roslin, as if that's not obvious. To her, it will probably be a relief and a release from the endless cancer.

Helo and Athena will survive, though. They get the kid, and it will be a nice character transition for Athena to go from utter despair and disaster to survival.

And I have to go to work, I'll theorize more in a bit.

What?

You're suggesting that, in the space of 2 hours, that half the fleet is going to go to the Cylon colony, battle, resolve the Hera storyline, resolve all other storylines, find out who Daniel is (Kara's Dad?) AND then find (a new) Earth?

Seems like far too much.
yes.

the way they have been ..... not advancing the plot much....for the past few weeks (with this last episode having done pretty much nothing to move things along) it must mean that they have put just that much into the finale.

That said, I love everything I've seen so far. I started determined to like Baltar the most, having already a brief knowledge of his character path. But Apollo won me over with his general good-guy-ness (and Helo's doing a pretty good job himself).
Helo is still cool, Apollo is now a whiny bitch and his actor must have better things to do because the only time he is on screen any more is to be boring and emo.

yes.

the way they have been ..... not advancing the plot much....for the past few weeks (with this last episode having done pretty much nothing to move things along) it must mean that they have put just that much into the finale.

Two hours only slightly less length than the average film, if the pacing is right, they can fit it all in. That might even be the reason for the slow pace of the last few episodes - so they'd have a finale that races past at breakneck speed.

Two hours only slightly less length than the average film, if the pacing is right, they can fit it all in. That might even be the reason for the slow pace of the last few episodes - so they'd have a finale that races past at breakneck speed.
thats what im thinking. they have a slam-bang-hold-onto-your-seat finale all made and they back filled with the last 4 episodes.

and we will be surprised by how they end it.

This episode was written by the same guy who wrote the series finale for Star Trek:TNG.

Take that as you will. (IMHO it's a good thing.)

thats what im thinking. they have a slam-bang-hold-onto-your-seat finale all made and they back filled with the last 4 episodes.

and we will be surprised by how they end it.

I don't think they've filled the last couple episodes with nothing. They've really driven home the "all this has happened before..." point by showing most of the characters returning to their pre-apocalypse roots (even going so far as to use the flashback plot device last episode with all the subtlety of a chainsaw). I think the last couple episodes have served well to guide the characters back into familiar environs for the last episode.

Ponder this (http://www.galactica-science.com/battlestar/blog/astronomy/constellations-in-daybreak-part-1/):

I don't think they've filled the last couple episodes with nothing. They've really driven home the "all this has happened before..." point by showing most of the characters returning to their pre-apocalypse roots (even going so far as to use the flashback plot device last episode with all the subtlety of a chainsaw). I think the last couple episodes have served well to guide the characters back into familiar environs for the last episode.
the only one that seemed to be a waste of my time was this last one with the flashbacks that would have been more appropriate to season 1.

the way they have been ..... not advancing the plot much....for the past few weeks (with this last episode having done pretty much nothing to move things along).
What?

Kidnapping of Hera, revelation of the Cylon Colony, abandonment of Galactica, betrayal of Tyroll, Kara's dad, more Hendrix/Anders nonsense, etc.

There hasn't been many explosions, but a hell of a lot has happened.


Helo is still cool, Apollo is now a whiny bitch...
Apollo has always been a whiny bitch, as has most of the pilots.

Kara needs to buck the fuck up and stop snivelling.


Ponder this (http://www.galactica-science.com/battlestar/blog/astronomy/constellations-in-daybreak-part-1/):
'galacticascience.com'?

Oooooooooooooooooooookay.

'galacticascience.com'?

Oooooooooooooooooooookay.

Hey man, if these guys are actually taking the time to compare star fields in the background... All I can think of is "better them than me" and then marvel at what they found. :D

Incidentally, if you look at their analysis of the previous episode, the constellations still work from the perspective of the gas giant... That virtually guarantees that it's Jupiter, as a gas giant in a different system would not have the same constellations (Or they'd be severely distorted, depending upon the distance from Earth.)

Apollo has always been a whiny bitch, as has most of the pilots.
Well I mean, now he is an especially whiny little bitch and does nothing but walk around in an ill-fitting monkey suit and do nothing at all. At least he previously did shit relevant to the show.

Kara needs to buck the fuck up and stop snivelling.


oh come on, its going to take a while to deal with the reality that you have lost not only everyone you ever knew (back on caprica) but that you are yourself DEAD and you have no idea what this "you" is.

oh come on, its going to take a while to deal with the reality that you have lost not only everyone you ever knew (back on caprica) but that you are yourself DEAD and you have no idea what this "you" is.

Don't know. I feel the character has lost depth in this heavy-handed attempt to give her depth.

Don't know. I feel the character has lost depth in this heavy-handed attempt to give her depth.
i think that is the result of holding back "the truth" to the finale.

Man this site is a goldmine of clues. It would be truly awesome if this plays out. Otherwise, it'll be a letdown.

Was Baltar killed on Caprica? (http://www.galactica-science.com/battlestar/blog/physics/did-baltar-survive-the-nuke/)

Hm.. Might explain Head Six and so far only characters that have died and come back seem to have visions of people being there that nobody else can see...


...other than Baltar.

Hey man, if these guys are actually taking the time to compare star fields in the background... All I can think of is "better them than me" and then marvel at what they found.
A couple of points.

Firstly, this (http://www.galactica-science.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/battlestar-galactica-s04e21-daybreak-part-1-0141-galactica-being-stripped-astrometry.jpg) doesn't seem very convincing to me, no matter what software was used.

Secondly, I think you're putting too much faith in the creators/designers accuracy and attention to detail. They've already made big changes to the fluff of BSG since the mini-series, and have had quite a few inconsistencies. Moreover, they've had things like the USS Enterprise (http://www.eeggs.com/items/47173.html) in shots of the fleet; and I doubt you'd hold that that shot 'virtually guarantees' that Picard is one of the last surviving humans.

Thirdly, the gas giant you claim is Jupiter (yet looks markedly different to Jupiter) was, as I've said earlier, a stop-off on a series of FTL jumps. It's not the destination Boomer was heading to, and I don't know of any black holes in the Solar System.

Folks need to stop taking the show and its analysis so seriously.

Man this site is a goldmine of clues. It would be truly awesome if this plays out. Otherwise, it'll be a letdown.

Was Baltar killed on Caprica? (http://www.galactica-science.com/battlestar/blog/physics/did-baltar-survive-the-nuke/)
Case in point. You're treating the show as if it is one coherent whole, a story decided on before the show was made.

This is simply not the case; the writers made the shit up as they went along. All this fanatical searching for 'clues' is pointless.




i think that is the result of holding back "the truth" to the finale.
Ohh, don't say that.

It reminds me of the steaming pile of shit that was the X-Files finale.

Man this site is a goldmine of clues. It would be truly awesome if this plays out. Otherwise, it'll be a letdown.

Was Baltar killed on Caprica? (http://www.galactica-science.com/battlestar/blog/physics/did-baltar-survive-the-nuke/)

Hm.. Might explain Head Six and so far only characters that have died and come back seem to have visions of people being there that nobody else can see...


...other than Baltar.

Well Baltar and Caprica Six as weird. Baltar has Caprica Six as a delusion which prods him to work for the Cylons. But, as shown later, Caprica Six has Baltar as a delusion which prods her to be sympathetic to the humans. Which just makes the fact that the first real Six on Galactica knows about Baltar's delusion (or I think she did).

This show makes as much sense as a giant shoe house.

This show makes as much sense as a giant shoe house.
This.

As awesome as the show is, Galactica makes no sense; politically, ethically, scientifically, practically or otherwise.

A 'Battlestar Galactica' panel discussion at the United Nations
Over the course of its four seasons, "Battlestar Galactica" has been lauded for its nuanced portrayal of war, faith and morality. Since it debuted six years ago, the Sci Fi drama about a rag-tag space fleet has offered challenging fictional depictions of problems afflicting our planet in the here and now.

And now a discussion of how those very issues have been handled on the show will take place at the United Nations.

On March 17, there will be a "Battlestar" retrospective at the U.N. in New York and a panel discussion of how the show examined issues such as "human rights, children and armed conflict, terrorism, human rights and reconciliation and dialogue among civilizations and faith," according to Sci Fi.

The "Battlestar" contingent on the panel will consist of executive producers Ronald D. Moore and David Eick, as well as stars Mary McDonnell (who plays president Laura Roslin on the show) and Edward James Olmos (Admiral William Adama).

UN representatives on the panel are Radhika Coomaraswamy, special representative of the Secretary-General for Children and Armed Conflict; Craig Mokhiber, deputy director of the New York office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights; and Robert Orr, assistant secretary-general for policy planning, executive office of the Secretary-General.

The panel will be moderated by "Battlestar" fan Whoopi Goldberg.

The invitation-only panel will take place at 7 p.m. March 17 in the U.N.'s Economic and Social Council Chamber, three days before the Sci Fi show's series finale.

UPDATE: A Sci Fi representative says that the network will record the session and a transcript will be made. "Once the content becomes available, we will let the fans know," the representative said.

Over the course of its four seasons, "Battlestar Galactica" has been lauded for its nuanced portrayal of war, faith and morality.
Could have fooled me.

Could have fooled me.

I'm not agreeing with the article - I just posted it.

Why don't we have Dora the Explorer speak at the UN? It makes just as much sense.

Case in point. You're treating the show as if it is one coherent whole, a story decided on before the show was made.

This is simply not the case; the writers made the shit up as they went along. All this fanatical searching for 'clues' is pointless.



Well, you know it's just for fun, I mean nobody's expecting t his stuff to play out like the theories, but if it DID that would be epic.

If not, it'll be quickly forgotten.

Idle speculation is the stuff of scifi ;)

Moreover, they've had things like the USS Enterprise (http://www.eeggs.com/items/47173.html) in shots of the fleet;

Don't forget Serenity (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aUZSKHhRXs)

IWhy don't we have Dora the Explorer speak at the UN? It makes just as much sense.
Quite.

Anyone who thinks that the morality or politics in BSG is 'nuanced' needs to take an elementary course in ethical or political theory.


Idle speculation is the stuff of scifi
Fair nuff, but I still think the notion that everything in BSG means something is so obviously stupid.

Fair nuff, but I still think the notion that everything in BSG means something is so obviously stupid.

I see it more as pawing through a pile of meaningless stuff to find the occasional pearl ;)

Don't forget Serenity (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aUZSKHhRXs)
A "Firefly" class vessel? Give me a break. I wonder if we could make that even more generic.

A "Firefly" class vessel? Give me a break. I wonder if we could make that even more generic.

And, like most "ufo" shots, far enough away and blurry enough to make it anything you want it to be.

And, like most "ufo" shots, far enough away and blurry enough to make it anything you want it to be.
That's not even my point. The ships in Star Trek, or rather, the Federation ships are very unique in their design. The "Firefly" class vessel is ridiculous generic for a ship design. A large rear engine on the end of wedge shaped ship with two extra wing engines? Any little kid with legos will do that because its natural and "cool" looking.

That's not even my point. The ships in Star Trek, or rather, the Federation ships are very unique in their design. The "Firefly" class vessel is ridiculous generic for a ship design. A large rear engine on the end of wedge shaped ship with two extra wing engines? Any little kid with legos will do that because its natural and "cool" looking.

Sorry, I actually understood your point. I was just adding my own perspective.

I see it more as pawing through a pile of meaningless stuff to find the occasional pearl ;)
It's the methodology I object to, not the idea of speculating itself.

Speculate by all means, but if you speculate based upon the false premise that the series had an overarching story from the beginning, then it seems pointless to me.

It's the methodology I object to, not the idea of speculating itself.

Speculate by all means, but if you speculate based upon the false premise that the series had an overarching story from the beginning, then it seems pointless to me.

Agreed, and I'm a little disappointed in that, since some of the plot twists and surprises lose some of their "WOW" factor when you realize that was just pulled out of thin air as opposed to having been planned for a long time. The Final Five were basically chosen by a process not very different form throwing darts at a group of pics of characters, so it's not as much fun to look back at the older episodes and say "hm, this guy was a Cylon all along..." 'cause he really wasn't.

I really hope Apollo dies.

Of course, I've also been hoping that Jack from Lost would die, so maybe I just harbor some kind of pathological hatred of leading men...?

I really hope Apollo dies.

Of course, I've also been hoping that Jack from Lost would die, so maybe I just harbor some kind of pathological hatred of leading men...?

*bites tongue*

Hey remember before when we were talking about Starbuck's hair length? Well I saw on that science of bsg page someone noticed that her hair was much shorter before she left on the mission where her viper blew up than it was when she climbed out of the new one. MUCH more than 3 months' worth of growth.

Hmmmmmmm........... How many Starbucks are there?

Watch Battlestar: The Last Fracking Special.
It is pretty much the writers and producers admitting they are making **** up as they go (like major fucking plot) and the actors/actresses saying they think the characters have become ****ing stupid and ****ty.

Well, a couple things from the latest Ron Moore podcast:

That gas giant Boomer jumped near when she was taking Hera... NOT Jupiter.

Starbuck's dad... NOT the lost Cylon.

*sigh* so much for my theories.

Well, a couple things from the latest Ron Moore podcast:

That gas giant Boomer jumped near when she was taking Hera... NOT Jupiter.

Starbuck's dad... NOT the lost Cylon.

*sigh* so much for my theories.

The last episode better the most cathartic experience of my entire goddamn life, or I am going to be infuriated. The way they have dragged out the last half of this season has been excruciating, and if there isn't the MOST satisfying resolution at the end of this tunnel, I'm going to start a campaign to have Ron Moore charged with war crimes.

The last episode better the most cathartic experience of my entire goddamn life, or I am going to be infuriated. The way they have dragged out the last half of this season has been excruciating, and if there isn't the MOST satisfying resolution at the end of this tunnel, I'm going to start a campaign to have Ron Moore charged with war crimes.

You knew when you started watching the series that "this may very well be a one-way trip!"

:p

ill tell you my theory to make you feel better.

all "humans" are cylons.

only the lords of kobol--the gods--were true humans. they created cylons and human cylons then died out leaving us to an endless cycle of creating and destroying each other.

ill tell you my theory to make you feel better.

all "humans" are cylons.

only the lords of kobol--the gods--were true humans. they created cylons and human cylons then died out leaving us to an endless cycle of creating and destroying each other.

I heard a very awesome theory that Hera isn't the Human-Cylon hybrid everyone's been searching for. The Galactica is.

I heard a very awesome theory that Hera isn't the Human-Cylon hybrid everyone's been searching for. The Galactica is.
oooo thats a cool theory.

i dont know what they could DO with it but its cool.

Here's my idea for the perfect ending:

After Galactica goes out in a blaze of glory and destroys the Cylon base, the remnants of the fleet establish a colony on a new world, and name it Caprica. Then, the screen goes black:

(Center of screen, in white letters "A thousand years later")

(A few people, obviously military, are having a few drinks [Ambrosia] in a bar. They're wearing brown jackets and khaki pants. One of them, a young man with long-ish dark hair stands, and offers a toast.)

Young Man: As all of you know, our squadron has been reassigned to a new ship. She's named after the legendary Galactica, and I think that with such a fine group of people as this, we'll do the name proud!

(applause and cheers from the people)

Young Man: My father, the representative from Caprica in the Quorum of the Twelve, has been given command of this, the first new Battlestar to be built after the founding. Even though her keel was laid down almost five hundred yahrens ago, she's now been refitted and is as good as new! To our new Commander! [drinks]

(The crowd starts cheering "Adama! Adama!")

(The Young man rejoins the crowd, and a similarly dressed man with shorter, sandy brown hair approaches him, a cigar in his mouth.)

Newcomer: Nice speech, Apollo. Now let's see if you can fly as well as you talk!
Apollo: I can outfly you any day, Starbuck, and you know it.
Starbuck: Well maybe it doesn't matter. All we ever do is train anyway. Think we'll ever actually fly combat?
Apollo: I hope not, Starbuck... But at least now if we do, we have Galactica.
Starbuck: And me! [winks, then moves off, distracted by an attractive young woman]

(camera moves away and points out a window into space, where the Battlestar Galactica floats majestically, the design of the ship an exact match for the 1978 series version.)

(screen fades to black, then in white letters: )
ALL OF THIS HAS HAPPENED BEFORE AND IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN

I heard a very awesome theory that Hera isn't the Human-Cylon hybrid everyone's been searching for. The Galactica is.

I was kidding you know ;)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14431832&postcount=69

So.. where does Muffit fit in ?

I was kidding you know ;)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14431832&postcount=69

So.. where does Muffit fit in ?

Actually, if you go back to the episode "A Day in the Life" (the one where Chief Tyrol and Cally get airlocked) Muffit is one of the pieces of debris that goes out the airlock with them.

Starbuck's dad... NOT the lost Cylon.

wtf?

wtf?

The therory that Starbuck's dad was Daniel, the Cylon that Cavil had boxed because of what amounted to sibling rivalry.

(screen fades to black, then in white letters: )
ALL OF THIS HAS HAPPENED BEFORE AND IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN

Accompanied by the the original thememusic, of course.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHp9oZPqs8E

It would be nice.

The therory that Starbuck's dad was Daniel, the Cylon that Cavil had boxed because of what amounted to sibling rivalry.

yeah, its my theory. and i don't see how they avoid it at this point without pulling a "haha, we were just fucking with you" or making the final five a final six or more.

yeah, its my theory. and i don't see how they avoid it at this point without pulling a "haha, we were just fucking with you" or making the final five a final six or more.

RDM was actually kind of apologetic when he explained that this wasn't the case. I guess a lot of people were talking about it and the way he presented it on screen fueled the fire. He said really the whole thing about Starbuck's seeing her dad was more of a way to fill in more character detail on Starbuck, and the whole Daniel thing was a way to show how evil Cavil is. Nothing more.

Perosonally, I think on some level he may be kicking himself for not thinking of it first ;)

Accompanied by the the original thememusic, of course.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHp9oZPqs8E

It would be nice.

Totally. And maybe while they roll through the theme once we get a video montage of all the characters in a then and now sort of format, kinda like at the end of Babylon 5.

Totally. And maybe while they roll through the theme once we get a video montage of all the characters in a then and now sort of format, kinda like at the end of Babylon 5.

Including a scene where the director comes on like an engineer, flips a switch and destroys Galactica ?
Nah. Let us not copy B5 too much.

RDM was actually kind of apologetic when he explained that this wasn't the case. I guess a lot of people were talking about it and the way he presented it on screen fueled the fire. He said really the whole thing about Starbuck's seeing her dad was more of a way to fill in more character detail on Starbuck, and the whole Daniel thing was a way to show how evil Cavil is. Nothing more.

Perosonally, I think on some level he may be kicking himself for not thinking of it first ;)

not buying it. starbuck's dad taught her all "along the watchtower". makes him daniel or final six. or, i guess, we've still got the lords of kobol to cover it.

I was kidding you know ;)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14431832&postcount=69

So.. where does Muffit fit in ?

Not to rain on your parade, but I actually picked up the theory, complete with fan wanking supporting evidence, on the BSG forums at scifi.com.

Listening to that music somehow got me thinking... It's almost over... It's really almost over... And I don't like that.

I mean I REALLY don't like it.

I don't know if I can handle it.

To me, right now, BSG is the only show on television worth going out of my way to watch. Even though the space between seasons has been ridiculous, this show has been a part of my TV life for 6 years now, and if you include the original series, almost my WHOLE life. And I don't want it to be over.

What a fraking SciFi nerd I am that I'm getting emotional about this... But screw it. I am. Sue me if I cry. I'm gonna be a mess about 11PM on Friday night. I know there's a movie coming and I know there's a spinoff coming but we don't know they'll be any good. They might suck. Besides, they take place in the past. This last episode still represents the end of the story. That makes me sad.

Yes, I got all choked up at the end of the Last Fraking Special on Monday night.

Of course I'll watch "The Plan" and of course I'll watch "Caprica" but we know it won't be the same. There's just so little good stuff on the wasteland of putrid crap that is modern American television and BSG was the best. Damn the SciFi channel for not letting BSG go 5 seasons but spewing Stargate like it was the only show ever made.

I need a hug.

Including a scene where the director comes on like an engineer, flips a switch and destroys Galactica ?
Nah. Let us not copy B5 too much.

Agreed. Straczynski was a helluva storyteller though.

Except with Legend of the Rangers... we'll just pretend he wrote that in his sleep...

...while drunk...

...and stoned...

I've avoided every post in this topic, just FYI. I've only just began watching the show, in fact. As we speak, I'm only on episode 6 of the 1st season, so there's no way I'll be able to finish in time for the final episode.
Ah so you've seen Bastille Day, then, which is probably my favourite episode of the whole thing.
What?

You're suggesting that, in the space of 2 hours, that half the fleet is going to go to the Cylon colony, battle, resolve the Hera storyline, resolve all other storylines, find out who Daniel is (Kara's Dad?) AND then find (a new) Earth?

Seems like far too much.
I dunno, that's about 2 and a bit episodes' worth of content, and judging by the last few of the series, so long as they keep mundane crap time down they can easily fit it in

Listening to that music somehow got me thinking... It's almost over... It's really almost over... And I don't like that.

I mean I REALLY don't like it.

I don't know if I can handle it.

To me, right now, BSG is the only show on television worth going out of my way to watch. Even though the space between seasons has been ridiculous, this show has been a part of my TV life for 6 years now, and if you include the original series, almost my WHOLE life. And I don't want it to be over.

What a fraking SciFi nerd I am that I'm getting emotional about this... But screw it. I am. Sue me if I cry. I'm gonna be a mess about 11PM on Friday night. I know there's a movie coming and I know there's a spinoff coming but we don't know they'll be any good. They might suck. Besides, they take place in the past. This last episode still represents the end of the story. That makes me sad.

Yes, I got all choked up at the end of the Last Fraking Special on Monday night.

Of course I'll watch "The Plan" and of course I'll watch "Caprica" but we know it won't be the same. There's just so little good stuff on the wasteland of putrid crap that is modern American television and BSG was the best. Damn the SciFi channel for not letting BSG go 5 seasons but spewing Stargate like it was the only show ever made.

I need a hug.
Start watching Breaking Bad.

Start watching Breaking Bad.

yay meth!

Start watching Breaking Bad.
yay meth!
Aye, someone recommended that to me, though it sounds like Weeds with harder drugs...

Listening to that music somehow got me thinking... It's almost over... It's really almost over... And I don't like that.

I mean I REALLY don't like it.

I don't know if I can handle it.

To me, right now, BSG is the only show on television worth going out of my way to watch. Even though the space between seasons has been ridiculous, this show has been a part of my TV life for 6 years now, and if you include the original series, almost my WHOLE life. And I don't want it to be over.

What a fraking SciFi nerd I am that I'm getting emotional about this... But screw it. I am. Sue me if I cry. I'm gonna be a mess about 11PM on Friday night. I know there's a movie coming and I know there's a spinoff coming but we don't know they'll be any good. They might suck. Besides, they take place in the past. This last episode still represents the end of the story. That makes me sad.

Yes, I got all choked up at the end of the Last Fraking Special on Monday night.

Of course I'll watch "The Plan" and of course I'll watch "Caprica" but we know it won't be the same. There's just so little good stuff on the wasteland of putrid crap that is modern American television and BSG was the best. Damn the SciFi channel for not letting BSG go 5 seasons but spewing Stargate like it was the only show ever made.

I need a hug.
im going to miss it too. but its so rare that a good show comes to a real end without jumping the shark that im happy that bsg has had its run and is ending with dignity.

Listening to that music somehow got me thinking... It's almost over... It's really almost over... And I don't like that.

I mean I REALLY don't like it.

I don't know if I can handle it.

To me, right now, BSG is the only show on television worth going out of my way to watch. Even though the space between seasons has been ridiculous, this show has been a part of my TV life for 6 years now, and if you include the original series, almost my WHOLE life. And I don't want it to be over.

What a fraking SciFi nerd I am that I'm getting emotional about this... But screw it. I am. Sue me if I cry. I'm gonna be a mess about 11PM on Friday night. I know there's a movie coming and I know there's a spinoff coming but we don't know they'll be any good. They might suck. Besides, they take place in the past. This last episode still represents the end of the story. That makes me sad.

Yes, I got all choked up at the end of the Last Fraking Special on Monday night.

Of course I'll watch "The Plan" and of course I'll watch "Caprica" but we know it won't be the same. There's just so little good stuff on the wasteland of putrid crap that is modern American television and BSG was the best. Damn the SciFi channel for not letting BSG go 5 seasons but spewing Stargate like it was the only show ever made.

I need a hug.

I only really started watching it at the beginning of the last season. This meant watching every BG marathon they ran just to do catchup. I'm really sorry I didn't get in at the beginning, because I missed a lot. I'll watch the prequels, just because, but you're right, it won't be Galactica. *hugs*

Aye, someone recommended that to me, though it sounds like Weeds with harder drugs...

it really sorta is. but with harder drugs comes more hardness in general. also, chemistry.

it really sorta is. but with harder drugs comes more hardness in general. also, chemistry.
I gather the main dude is the Dad from Malcom in the Middle, who was probably the best part of that show.

Sounds like a watch.

I gather the main dude is the Dad from Malcom in the Middle, who was probably the best part of that show.

yeah, and he's awesome here too. but in a totally different way.

im going to miss it too. but its so rare that a good show comes to a real end without jumping the shark that im happy that bsg has had its run and is ending with dignity.

There is that, at least. I'm also glad the writers' strike ended when it did, because if it had gone on much longer, most of the second half of the 4th season never would have been, and the series finale would have been the episode after the one where they found Earth.

I only really started watching it at the beginning of the last season. This meant watching every BG marathon they ran just to do catchup. I'm really sorry I didn't get in at the beginning, because I missed a lot. I'll watch the prequels, just because, but you're right, it won't be Galactica. *hugs*

It's ironic... When I saw the miniseries when it first came out I was dubious about the major character changes, as well as the idea that Adama didn't even really believe in Earth... But I watched the series and got totally hooked.

*sigh*

Start watching Breaking Bad.

Or Dexter. One of the best written shows to come around in along time.

*sigh* 12 hours to go...

*sigh* 12 hours to go...
im psyched! i think this is going to be a finale for the ages.

im psyched! i think this is going to be a finale for the ages.

If it isn't someone may have to talk me down off a ledge.

If it isn't someone may have to talk me down off a ledge.
thats part of the anticipation.

it could be great, it could suck. but the bsg team has been very consistent at delivering "good".

So, is anyone else getting a crate of beer in, a few BSG loving friends round, and watching the finale while off your face on alcohol?

Not sure how many Farscape fans we have here, but I am fearful that this finale is going to be like the TV-movie-finale they did for that show. If anyone saw it, they'll tell you that it tried to cram what was essentially the cancelled 5th season all into a 4 hour TV movie. I just hope they don't try to cram so much resolution into this finale that it ends up moving a mile a minute and just glossing over stuff. That's my biggest fear.

Not sure how many Farscape fans we have here, but I am fearful that this finale is going to be like the TV-movie-finale they did for that show. If anyone saw it, they'll tell you that it tried to cram what was essentially the cancelled 5th season all into a 4 hour TV movie. I just hope they don't try to cram so much resolution into this finale that it ends up moving a mile a minute and just glossing over stuff. That's my biggest fear.

Better than "going too many seasons" like they did with Babylon 5, where in the last season it really took a plot nosedive.

We have two "bad" options - a great series that ends in a crap movie, or a great series that withers in an embarassing "season too many".

Not sure how many Farscape fans we have here, but I am fearful that this finale is going to be like the TV-movie-finale they did for that show. If anyone saw it, they'll tell you that it tried to cram what was essentially the cancelled 5th season all into a 4 hour TV movie. I just hope they don't try to cram so much resolution into this finale that it ends up moving a mile a minute and just glossing over stuff. That's my biggest fear.

If you liked the finale for Star Trek:TNG then you have reason to be optimistic. Ron Moore wrote that one, too.

If you liked the finale for Star Trek:TNG then you have reason to be optimistic. Ron Moore wrote that one, too.

And what if I thought the finale sucked?

And what if I thought the finale sucked?

Honestly, all of TNG sucked.

And what if I thought the finale sucked?
it didnt suck but it wasnt their best episode ever.

Honestly, all of TNG sucked.

That's not true. Seasons 3-6 were very good. The beginning struggled to find itself, and I feel that the final season is a great example of your "season too many" theory.

That's not true. Seasons 3-6 were very good. The beginning struggled to find itself, and I feel that the final season is a great example of your "season too many" theory.
i loved tng the first (second and third) time around but i find that if i watch it now it makes me rant over its horrible characterizations.

That's not true. Seasons 3-6 were very good. The beginning struggled to find itself, and I feel that the final season is a great example of your "season too many" theory.

I'll admit it didn't suck as much as DS9.

I'll admit it didn't suck as much as DS9.
are you a bsg fan?

I'll admit it didn't suck as much as DS9.

Now I just have to kill you.

are you a bsg fan?

BSG, Firefly, Babylon 5.

BSG, Firefly, Babylon 5.
its surprising that you can hate ds9 and love bsg.

Now I just have to kill you.Ezri is mine!

its surprising that you can hate ds9 and love bsg.

Though not surprising that a B5 fan might hate DS9.

Though not surprising that a B5 fan might hate DS9.
right

Ezri is mine!

You can keep Ezri; she was horrible.

You can keep Ezri; she was horrible.
ezri would have been fine if she hadnt been dax.

she was awful.

And what if I thought the finale sucked?

Then you're probably hosed :p

its surprising that you can hate ds9 and love bsg.

I find it pretty easy, myself. ;)

You can keep Ezri; she was horrible.

Ezri was adorable. One of the few reasons I bothered with DS9.

So, is anyone else getting a crate of beer in, a few BSG loving friends round, and watching the finale while off your face on alcohol?
Yup, yup, yup!

We're setting up the projector now. Watched the miniseries last night as a prelude. Still fracking awesome, though everyone looks so young; even Adama.


yeah, and he's awesome here too. but in a totally different way.
I watched a couple of episodes; see what you mean.

It's much better than Weeds, IMO. More 'realistic', more engaging characters.

Yup, yup, yup!

We're setting up the projector now. Watched the miniseries last night as a prelude. Still fracking awesome, though everyone looks so young; even Adama.
How come the episodes are broadcast on the same day in the US and GB? That usually doesn't happen, does it?

I have to wait until tomorrow till I can steal it from the internet. :(

I watched a couple of episodes; see what you mean.

It's much better than Weeds, IMO. More 'realistic', more engaging characters.
But with a dismal lack of Mary-Louise Parker.

I have to wait until tomorrow till I can steal it from the internet.
Us too, we're just going to have a rather long night.

But with a dismal lack of Mary-Louise Parker.
Indeed.

*sigh*

Us too, we're just going to have a rather long night.
Ah, mystery solved.

In "Daybreak Part I" when Baltar is arguing with his father... At one point he says "fucking" not "fraking." methinks the censors were getting a bit complacent ;)

In "Daybreak Part I" when Baltar is arguing with his father... At one point he says "fucking" not "fraking." methinks the censors were getting a bit complacent ;)
i rewound that and listened to it again and decided that it was frak and not fuck.

i rewound that and listened to it again and decided that it was frak and not fuck.

As I didn't record it I'll take your word for it...

...provisionally ;)

(Also assuming, of course, that we're talking about the same instance :) )

As I didn't record it I'll take your word for it...

...provisionally ;)

(Also assuming, of course, that we're talking about the same instance :) )
i think so because it took me aback when i heard it. i rewound it immediately (i love my dvr) and was satisfied that there was an R in there.

Aaaaaaaaah! They found real Earth! Not frakking shitty burned out nuked up dead planet!

And, startlingly appropriately for BSG, I'm drunk, and I used liquor. Aaaaaaaaaaah! :)

Aaaaaah! Vanishing Starbuck! Fraaaaaaaaaaak!

Weirdly, as a fan of the series from...well...high school, I feel like I have achieved a degree of catharsis. I am happy that not every question was answered. I would not want that. This outcome leaves me quite contented.

PS: I like. I was hasty one my declaration that it was finite, but I still like.

This is why I like having a netbook.

And I like how the Hendrix version made its way in.

Nice ending.

By the way, God prefers the name 'Kookamunga'. :)

Nice ending.

By the way, God prefers the name 'Kookamunga'. :)

Doubtlessly. I'd bet he's too big to really be bothered with anything less.

*cries*

*cries*

Was it worth it ;)

So wait...what was Starbuck?

I'M CONFUSED!

So wait...what was Starbuck?

I'M CONFUSED!

Starbuck prefers to be called 'Kookamunga'. *nod*

so i wonder how much of our music has happened before. and i sincerely hope that not all of it will happen again.

So wait...what was Starbuck?

I'M CONFUSED!

Dead.

But only biologically.

Don't dig too deep for answers.

Let's wait for Caprica, that should be fun.

Starbuck prefers to be called 'Kookamunga'. *nod*

Don't get 'em confused clown. Starbuck is "Fantastico", Kookamunga is entirely different.

Was it worth it ;)

.... yes.... *bawl*

So wait...what was Starbuck?

I'M CONFUSED!

An angel.

so i wonder how much of our music has happened before. and i sincerely hope that not all of it will happen again.

We're talking about Watchtower. How many covers of it are there? How many different bands have you heard play it live? If the cycle was broken, it's because the song has been relentlessly covered. ;) See the logic?

;)

We're talking about Watchtower. How many covers of it are there? How many different bands have you heard play it live? If the cycle was broken, it's because the song has been relentlessly covered. ;) See the logic?

;)

dave matthews has broken the cycle!

dave matthews has broken the cycle!

You just broke me down into a pile of giggles :)

And, yes, I've DM and DMB play it live.

So wait...what was Starbuck?

I'M CONFUSED!

An angel, like Head Six and Head Baltar, except physically manifested.

The Cylon FTL system will prove somehow to involve, or cause, time travel. Battlestar Galactica itself will find a new planet and, weakened by the structural damage Tyrol spotted, it will crash or be destroyed. The survivors, human and cylon, will live on the new planet. And call it Earth.

All this has happened before, and will happen again.

So I was mostly right, only no time travel.

Did you notice when the fleet was headed into the Sun that they were playing the theme from the original series?

So -

Baltar grows a pair and grows up.
Galen Tyrol becomes a hermit.
The Tighs finally can have an honest relationship.
and Hera is mitochondrial Eve.

We're all Human/Cylon hybrids.

Cool.

Did you notice when the fleet was headed into the Sun that they were playing the theme from the original series?

So -

Baltar grows a pair and grows up.
Galen Tyrol becomes a hermit.
The Tighs finally can have an honest relationship.
and Hera is mitochondrial Eve.

We're all Human/Cylon hybrids.

Cool.

Baltar is rewarded for genocide. Six is rewarded for genocide, and don't forget the baby-killing from the pilot. Happy ever after!

The Colonists collectively decide (!) to junk the entire fleet along with Galactica and embrace a pre-industrial agrarian lifestyle, passing along nothing but their genes and, apparently, their language; setting a chain of events that results in all human history and pre-history. Including the Black Death, the Crusades, the Hittites, slavery, feudalism. Happily ever after!

Humans develop intelligent robots anyway, showing that the chain is not broken and it was all for naught. Happily ever after!

Admiral Adama dies of hypothermia, malnutrition and exposure as he wastes away by Roslin's grave. Happily ever after!

Starbuck was a ghost. Lee Adama tries farming unsuccessfully and spirals quickly into alcoholism and depression over the realization that he's a necrophiliac. Happily ever after!

Hera gets eaten by a sabre-tooth tiger.

Happily ever after!

Baltar is rewarded for genocide. Six is rewarded for genocide, and don't forget the baby-killing from the pilot. Happy ever after!

The Colonists collectively decide (!) to junk the entire fleet along with Galactica and embrace a pre-industrial agrarian lifestyle, passing along nothing but their genes and, apparently, their language; setting a chain of events that results in all human history and pre-history. Including the Black Death, the Crusades, the Hittites, slavery, feudalism. Happily ever after!

Humans develop intelligent robots anyway, showing that the chain is not broken and it was all for naught. Happily ever after!

Admiral Adama dies of hypothermia, malnutrition and exposure as he wastes away by Roslin's grave. Happily ever after!

Starbuck was a ghost. Lee Adama tries farming unsuccessfully and spirals quickly into alcoholism and depression over the realization that he's a necrophiliac. Happily ever after!

Hera gets eaten by a sabre-tooth tiger.

Happily ever after!

Hey, nobody's perfect.

I really liked how Boomer went out. She had a heart after all. She was my favorite character in Season 1 so I was a little bummed when she turned out to be a Cylon. I was a bit mollified when we got Athena as our first good Cylon despite all the shit the humans but her through. She and Helo are one of the best love stories in the series and I'm glad they became, well, the ancestors of all humanity. Still, this ending let me like Boomer again as well. I would have been disappointed if she'd ignored her feelings about what John was doing to Hera and stuck on his side but I'd also have been disappointed if Athena had simply forgiven her. It would have been hard to overlook everything she did simply because she partially undid it after lots of innocent lives had been sacrificed but the fact that she dies allows it to be a truly redeeming scene. She had made her choices but she also made a last choice, probably knowing Athena would still kill her. It was a good note to go out on. Also, "Tell the Old Man I owed him one" was a great line.

Baltar is rewarded for genocide. Six is rewarded for genocide, and don't forget the baby-killing from the pilot. Happy ever after!

God has a black sense of humor.


The Colonists collectively decide (!) to junk the entire fleet along with Galactica and embrace a pre-industrial agrarian lifestyle, passing along nothing but their genes and, apparently, their language; setting a chain of events that results in all human history and pre-history. Including the Black Death, the Crusades, the Hittites, slavery, feudalism. Happily ever after!

Well we did get over a hundred thousand years of hunter-gathering, the best way of living?, done, and what is else is a clean slate good for if you're not going to make it dirty again?

Humans develop intelligent robots anyway, showing that the chain is not broken and it was all for naught. Happily ever after!

What part of "this has all happened before and will happen again" didn't you get?

Admiral Adama dies of hypothermia, malnutrition and exposure as he wastes away by Roslin's grave. Happily ever after!

I bet he just crashed the raptor into the cliff like a tombstone.

Starbuck was a ghost.

She had to come back so she could earn her wings.

Lee Adama tries farming unsuccessfully and spirals quickly into alcoholism and depression over the realization that he's a necrophiliac. Happily ever after!

Once you go dead..... you're out of your head?


Hera gets eaten by a sabre-tooth tiger.

Happily ever after!

After having tons of kids. She probably wanted it to eat her.

I honestly want to punch RDM in the face. That is all.

Kneeing him in the groin would probably be more painful for him and less painful for you.

I still dont understand why Hera is any more special then anyone else. There were 38k humans of mostly reproduction age still able to contribute to the gene pool. Even if Hera had 20 kids its still only a tiny fraction of the new children that would be born and added to the planets gene pool. 40,000 colonists and Heras genes are the only ones that pass on? I find that.....unlikely.

I still dont understand why Hera is any more special then anyone else. There were 38k humans of mostly reproduction age still able to contribute to the gene pool. Even if Hera had 20 kids its still only a tiny fraction of the new children that would be born and added to the planets gene pool. 40,000 colonists and Heras genes are the only ones that pass on? I find that.....unlikely.

That's not how mitochondrial Eve works. The real mitachondrial Eve wasn't the only female human alive (and in fact, y-chromosomal Adam is separated by several thousand years from her). The existence of mitochondrial Eve does not imply population bottlenecks or a single "first couple" - it means that her children, her children's children, her children's children and so on, all interbred with every other human matrilineal family tree. That doesn't mean we're all direct descendants of her, it just means part of her DNA is in every one of us, through our mother's side.

It's not that her DNA is the only one to carry on, it's that her DNA pool spread so far through time and population as to be related to every human in existence.

I still dont understand why Hera is any more special then anyone else. There were 38k humans of mostly reproduction age still able to contribute to the gene pool. Even if Hera had 20 kids its still only a tiny fraction of the new children that would be born and added to the planets gene pool. 40,000 colonists and Heras genes are the only ones that pass on? I find that.....unlikely.

More that her genes are spread throughout all humanity, where everyone else just got theirs in some parts of the batch.

Baltar is rewarded for genocide. Six is rewarded for genocide, and don't forget the baby-killing from the pilot. Happy ever after!


Not rewarded, forgiven.


She had to come back so she could earn her wings.


LAWL

OMG, I frackin loved the season finale!!!! The only bad thing was that they killed Anders and Kara vanished. They should have lived happily ever after together.

That doesn't mean we're all direct descendants of her, it just means part of her DNA is in every one of us, through our mother's side.

it does actually mean that we are all direct descendants of her through our matrilineal line.

basically, the issue is like that with the most recent common answer more generally. we each have 4 grandparents, 8 great-grandparents, and so on. going like that we quickly wind up with more people than are alive currently, so there must be overlap. at a certain point in the overlapping, we all share a common ancestor. here the question is restricted to just our mothers' mothers' mothers'.
it looks like this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Mitochondrial-Eve00001.png

An angel, like Head Six and Head Baltar, except physically manifested.

Head Six can manifest so everyone can see her too. She did back in season 2 (I think) when she was trying to frame Baltar for treason (well, a different kind of treason).

OMG, I frackin loved the season finale!!!! The only bad thing was that they killed Anders and Kara vanished. They should have lived happily ever after together.

I think Starbuck was too self-destructive to survive the series. It was always her destiny to die along the way, IMO.

Anders' fate does suck, though. He didn't deserve what ended up happening to him.

I think Starbuck was too self-destructive to survive the series. It was always her destiny to die along the way, IMO

Not to mention she needed to for the whole cycle thing- the "old" Starbuck after all also joined the Seraphs.

OMG, I frackin loved the season finale!!!! The only bad thing was that they killed Anders and Kara vanished. They should have lived happily ever after together.

They did. That's why Anders told her he'd see her on the other side.

Sad to see the show go. there is so much crap on TV these days :(

Anders ending was hastily rewritten to become a hybrid because the actor was involved in a car crash, and for a while, they weren't sure he'd be able to walk anymore - hence the sitting down role.

So, I finally watched it (after it took most of yesterday to download - Chumblywumbly will have to tell me his secret torrent goldmine that let him watch it the night of, hrmph).

I thought it was parts awesome and parts just okay - but by the time it ended my overall verdict was fast in the "awesome" column so all's good.

The one big question I still have that has been bothering me for some time is still unanswered, though (I think): that whole "Kara Thrace, you're the harbinger of death who will lead them to their end" thing.
A few episodes ago I was willing to just go "eh, they haven't mentioned it in a while, they'll probably just let it fall under the table and hope we won't remember". But just a few weeks ago HybridAnders explicitly said the same thing to her again.
Anyone know (or have a good theory on) what that was all about?

Anders ending was hastily rewritten to become a hybrid because the actor was involved in a car crash, and for a while, they weren't sure he'd be able to walk anymore - hence the sitting down role.
Egads, really? I had no idea.

Sad to see the show go. there is so much crap on TV these days :(

Indeed. Which classic will be next to receive a "re-imagining" ? Knight Rider has already mated with transformers. The A-team ? Airwolf ? Are you being served ? ;)

Hmm, this question is worthy of its own thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=587551

Anders ending was hastily rewritten to become a hybrid because the actor was involved in a car crash, and for a while, they weren't sure he'd be able to walk anymore - hence the sitting down role.

Eh? His accident happened during the writers strike and they knew before it was over that he was fine. All the news said his accident had no impact on the series.

Eh? His accident happened during the writers strike and they knew before it was over that he was fine. All the news said his accident had no impact on the series.

Not according to Michael Trucco and Katee Sackhoff themselves. The accident happened in December 2007, and although no writing was taking place, they were still filming. See here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEla4UgUZns&feature=player_embedded)

Eh? His accident happened during the writers strike and they knew before it was over that he was fine. All the news said his accident had no impact on the series.

It was really remarkable. I remember reading that his injury was the same as the one Christopher Reeve suffered - he had four crushed vertebrae.

It was an intense injury, no doubt about that. Yeah, it was the exact same vertibrae as Reeve IIRC. His injury happened on December 10th and he was out of the hospital 10 days later (approx). The writers strike started on Nov 5 2007 and concluded on Feb 12th. There was no rewrites during that time and he was giving interviews after he as out of the hospital talking about what a lucky guy he was.

I think I'll believe what was said by the actor and by the press on the 20th of December, 2007: http://www.buddytv.com/articles/battlestar-galactica/battlestar-galactica-actor-inj-15040.aspx

The one big question I still have that has been bothering me for some time is still unanswered, though (I think): that whole "Kara Thrace, you're the harbinger of death who will lead them to their end" thing.
A few episodes ago I was willing to just go "eh, they haven't mentioned it in a while, they'll probably just let it fall under the table and hope we won't remember". But just a few weeks ago HybridAnders explicitly said the same thing to her again.
Anyone know (or have a good theory on) what that was all about?
To answer half of my own question, I just found this quote (http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b105383_battlestar_galactica_series_finale.html)by Moore:
"Kara is what you want her to be. It's easy to put the label on her of angel or messenger of God. Kara Thrace died, was resurrected, and came back and took the people to their final end. That was destiny in the show."
So I guess the "who will lead them all to their end" was just a shifty way to express that while making us think the worst.

But that still leaves the "harbinger of death" part.

To answer half of my own question, I just found this quote (http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b105383_battlestar_galactica_series_finale.html)by Moore:

So I guess the "who will lead them all to their end" was just a shifty way to express that while making us think the worst.

But that still leaves the "harbinger of death" part.

Kara died and was resurrected ... She's Jesus!!!

To answer half of my own question, I just found this quote (http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b105383_battlestar_galactica_series_finale.html)by Moore:

So I guess the "who will lead them all to their end" was just a shifty way to express that while making us think the worst.

But that still leaves the "harbinger of death" part.

Harbinger of her own death, perhaps?

The death of the old cycle of Cylon/human war?

The death of Cavel and Co?

Death of BSG?

Harbinger of her own death, perhaps?

The death of the old cycle of Cylon/human war?

The death of Cavel and Co?

Death of BSG?

Yeah.... but.... while all of those would fit none are actually convincing (like everything I've come up with so far). Not even her own death - which would obviously be the most intuitive one - because how does dying and coming back as a ghost/angel/whatever make you "the harbinger of death"?

Bleh. Maybe their use of "harbinger" is simply equally creative as their use of "end". http://generalitemafia.ipbfree.com/html/emoticons/dry.gif

They should do a sequel with the survivors living out their days. After the initial provisions run out, the tools break down, and they must use basic survival skills. I want to see the adventures of Admiral Hoshi trying to kill a bear with a wooden spear. I want to see some survivors reduced to cannibalism to survive a harsh winter and the drama of who gets to be eaten first, and who can't eat, and who starts to enjoy the taste and murders the rest for their meat. I want to see Adama come out of retirement in loin-skin and lead the ravaged, dying survivors against a band of opportunistics who managed to prevent one ship from going to the sun and who stripped it down to make methane-powered dune buggies and took to the raiding lifestyle. I want to see a "100,002 Years Later" where Earth discovers FTL travel and finds out that the entire galaxy has already been colonized by the descendants of the Centurions.

Yeah.... but.... while all of those would fit none are actually convincing (like everything I've come up with so far). Not even her own death - which would obviously be the most intuitive one - because how does dying and coming back as a ghost/angel/whatever make you "the harbinger of death"?

Bleh. Maybe their use of "harbinger" is simply equally creative as their use of "end". http://generalitemafia.ipbfree.com/html/emoticons/dry.gif

Perhaps she was the Harbinger of Death for the Cavil-led Cylons. They were seemingly wiped out completely.

Yeah.... but.... while all of those would fit none are actually convincing (like everything I've come up with so far). Not even her own death - which would obviously be the most intuitive one - because how does dying and coming back as a ghost/angel/whatever make you "the harbinger of death"?

Bleh. Maybe their use of "harbinger" is simply equally creative as their use of "end". http://generalitemafia.ipbfree.com/html/emoticons/dry.gif

The death of civilization?

The death of the old way of life?

The death of old perceptions?

The death of old dreams?

Death as it's intended in the Tarot ... which is change, whether for good or bad.

Perhaps she was the Harbinger of Death for the Cavil-led Cylons. They were seemingly wiped out completely.
Yeah.... but.... Kara didn't really have anything to do with that, did she? Not more than anybody else and certainly less than dead Racetrack with the nukes or even Tyrol whose killing of Tory ignited the final gun battle in the command center.

[/malcontent]

The death of civilization?

The death of the old way of life?

The death of old perceptions?

The death of old dreams?

Death as it's intended in the Tarot ... which is change, whether for good or bad.
You know, maybe R.D. Moore really just is a fan of Tarot. Although even then Kara's jumping them to Earth wouldn't make her a harbinger of anything, it'd make her the one actually bringing about the change.

Cheater.

Wait, I get it. Kara Thrace did lead them all to their death. The whole Earth fantasy was just a dream had in the final split-second before that last blind jump landed them into the fucking singularity and ripped everything and everyone to shreds.

Wait, I get it. Kara Thrace did lead them all to their death. The whole Earth fantasy was just a dream had in the final split-second before that last blind jump landed them into the fucking singularity and ripped everything and everyone to shreds.
Finally something that makes sense!

Now I can sleep again.

Himself and I decided that we're going to pretend the last half hour of the finale didn't happen.

I was absolutely shocked and disgusted by so much of what happened in that last segment that I sat stunned for a couple minutes after the credits. BSG has been such an aware, intelligent, artistically-written show...I could not believe how horrible an ending it was given.

But the first hour or whatever was awesome. My favorite part was when they ram Galactica right the fuck in to the colony. Hells to the yeah.

But the first hour or whatever was awesome. My favorite part was when they ram Galactica right the fuck in to the colony. Hells to the yeah.

It was pretty cinema but on the and i say this in heavy quotes "realistic side" i thought the ramming was silly. Every big ship that collides with any other big ship in the entire history of science fiction movies has always resulted in a giant explosion. Not only that but how does a ship ram into another ship then seal the hole instantly with no complete decompression or anything on either ship. Silly to the max even considering its fiction. Specially from a ship that was so damaged to begin with that it wouldnt even be able to jump again but was plenty strong enough to ram something and stay intact and mostly airtight except for the front part that broke in.

Also silly was the fact that there seemed to be only like 20 metal Cylons in the entire baseship instead of an army.

It was pretty cinema but on the and i say this in heavy quotes "realistic side" i thought the ramming was silly. Every big ship that collides with any other big ship in the entire history of science fiction movies has always resulted in a giant explosion. Not only that but how does a ship ram into another ship then seal the hole instantly with no complete decompression or anything on either ship. Silly to the max even considering its fiction. Specially from a ship that was so damaged to begin with that it wouldnt even be able to jump again but was plenty strong enough to ram something and stay intact and mostly airtight except for the front part that broke in.

Also silly was the fact that there seemed to be only like 20 metal Cylons in the entire baseship instead of an army.
Well yeah, I mean I did kind of think it was funny that Adama gave that whole big speech about how "Galactica will bring us home if we don't fail her" right before they executed their plan of using Galactica as a battering ram.

I think it would have made more sense if they went into it assuming that Galactica would NOT survive the fight, and therefore using the ship as a ram was kind of a final hurrah. And then it could have been really touching when they discovered that Galactica held together after all and they could manage to make one last jump, like the ship was giving them one last gift before expiring.

It was pretty cinema but on the and i say this in heavy quotes "realistic side" i thought the ramming was silly. Every big ship that collides with any other big ship in the entire history of science fiction movies has always resulted in a giant explosion. Not only that but how does a ship ram into another ship then seal the hole instantly with no complete decompression or anything on either ship. Silly to the max even considering its fiction. Specially from a ship that was so damaged to begin with that it wouldnt even be able to jump again but was plenty strong enough to ram something and stay intact and mostly airtight except for the front part that broke in.

Also silly was the fact that there seemed to be only like 20 metal Cylons in the entire baseship instead of an army.

1. I think that the ramming did most of the damage to the ship to the point that they only had one jump left in her. She only had a few as of the last episode, and she was already dieing at that point. From the way she was buckling after that last jump, I am pretty sure that she only survived the jump after the damage she took because of the Cylon Organic Metal Resin that was holding her together.

2. There would have been no explosion based on impact area. Galactica impacted in a cargo hold, far from where the Centurions where operating, and which was, by all images we saw, airless. So you just saw the heavily armored ramming prow of the old girl smashing into the side of the Cylon Colony and suffering heavy internal damage from the collision. If she had impacted in a Tyllium Tank, well, that would have been a different result entirely. Just because it is a Trope, doesn't mean it MUST happen.

On that note, I stopped liking it after the cut of the old girl over the Moon. I saw her over Mare Serenitatis and I was so hoping to arrive on Earth in time for the current world. The ending just wound up pissing me off.

And honestly, I blame that universe's 30 Years War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War) on Lee Adama. Along with the Crusades, the Nuclear Bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Black Death, the Spanish Influenza, and Fascism and Communism. Mainly because those idiots decided to perpetuate the cycle instead of trying to break it by raising up the Humans they found on "Earth."

[/2 cents]

Head Six can manifest so everyone can see her too. She did back in season 2 (I think) when she was trying to frame Baltar for treason (well, a different kind of treason).

Nah that was just a physical Six model.


Anders' fate does suck, though. He didn't deserve what ended up happening to him.

I think that was as graceful an ending as they could have given him though. It seems after his injury there was no way he'd ever be himself again, and this gave him an opportunity to do one last thing for the fleet. He must have done it voluntarily, after all.

Sad to see the show go. there is so much crap on TV these days :(

^This.


The one big question I still have that has been bothering me for some time is still unanswered, though (I think): that whole "Kara Thrace, you're the harbinger of death who will lead them to their end" thing.
A few episodes ago I was willing to just go "eh, they haven't mentioned it in a while, they'll probably just let it fall under the table and hope we won't remember". But just a few weeks ago HybridAnders explicitly said the same thing to her again.
Anyone know (or have a good theory on) what that was all about?

I think on some level the Hybrid was trying to lead her astray.


I think it would have made more sense if they went into it assuming that Galactica would NOT survive the fight, and therefore using the ship as a ram was kind of a final hurrah. And then it could have been really touching when they discovered that Galactica held together after all and they could manage to make one last jump, like the ship was giving them one last gift before expiring.

Actually that's the sense I got from it. Until Galactica actually jumped out I was sure this was going to be the blaze of glory that would destroy Galactica and Adama with her. I think the Raptors were going to be the means of escape for Hera and family but that plan got fraked up.


On that note, I stopped liking it after the cut of the old girl over the Moon. I saw her over Mare Serenitatis and I was so hoping to arrive on Earth in time for the current world. The ending just wound up pissing me off.


There's no way they could have done that without invoking Galactica 1980 in the minds of the fans, and that would have been the worst possible ending, IMHO.

Yeah.... but.... while all of those would fit none are actually convincing (like everything I've come up with so far). Not even her own death - which would obviously be the most intuitive one - because how does dying and coming back as a ghost/angel/whatever make you "the harbinger of death"?

Bleh. Maybe their use of "harbinger" is simply equally creative as their use of "end". http://generalitemafia.ipbfree.com/html/emoticons/dry.gif

I think its less complicated then that, i think the harbinger of death part wasnt the important part, it was lead humanity to its end part, not to its death but to its final destination, as she clearly did when she jumped the ship.

There's no way they could have done that without invoking Galactica 1980 in the minds of the fans, and that would have been the worst possible ending, IMHO.

I know, but it could have been done. Instead of hiding and pretending to be normal humans, Galactica would jump in over the moon, and you could do a splash of slow moving images (ala Watchmen Opening) that showed reactions to the arrival all over the world. 1980's biggest problem was that they tried to hide in among the populace, when they should have come down, declared themselves for what they where, and tried to integrate.

BSG (RDM) could have done that well, what with it's continual exploration of politics. I would probably have been annoyed at how they did it, but I would still have enjoyed the ending much more, without declaring that the entire fleet had had the Idiot Ball chained to their collective hands.

I know, but it could have been done. Instead of hiding and pretending to be normal humans, Galactica would jump in over the moon, and you could do a splash of slow moving images (ala Watchmen Opening) that showed reactions to the arrival all over the world. 1980's biggest problem was that they tried to hide in among the populace, when they should have come down, declared themselves for what they where, and tried to integrate.

BSG (RDM) could have done that well, what with it's continual exploration of politics. I would probably have been annoyed at how they did it, but I would still have enjoyed the ending much more, without declaring that the entire fleet had had the Idiot Ball chained to their collective hands.

I think the problem is that an ending like that would have been unsatisfying because we'd want to see more about the integration of the Colonials with our Earth culture and so on... The thing Galactica 1980 tried to do and failed at. Do I think RDM could have pulled it off? Yeah, I think he probably could have... but not in a single episode.

Ending it the way they did was ideal because it left the story nowhere to go.

I know, but it could have been done. Instead of hiding and pretending to be normal humans, Galactica would jump in over the moon, and you could do a splash of slow moving images (ala Watchmen Opening) that showed reactions to the arrival all over the world. 1980's biggest problem was that they tried to hide in among the populace, when they should have come down, declared themselves for what they where, and tried to integrate.

BSG (RDM) could have done that well, what with it's continual exploration of politics. I would probably have been annoyed at how they did it, but I would still have enjoyed the ending much more, without declaring that the entire fleet had had the Idiot Ball chained to their collective hands.

I think the ending worked very well within the "this has all happened before" motif. I like the idea that, despite the Colonials actively trying to break the cycle, we're seemingly destined to repeat the mistakes of the past once again. The robotics montage at the end was amazing for this purpose, IMO.

I'd have liked to see how the Cylon bodies are made. Are they assembled on a line? Grown in vats? That would have been an interesting tidbit to know.

so, when are all the remaining cylons getting here to kill us all? i mean, unless i missed something there are at least a couple basestars worth of them left at the end, besides the ones that sided with the galacticans, yeah?

I was kind of disappointed by the whole "we should give them their freedom, they've earned it" statement. It was quite patronizing. It implies that the humans and the final five consider themselves to be superior to the sentient machines.

The whole attitude was that if we (the humans) gave them the base ship (which was theirs to begin with) and let them go free (the freedom was also theirs to begin with) because they fought beside the human race as equals, they would leave us alone.

It's sort of like the patronizing attitude that the Northern whites had at the end of the Civil War towards the Buffalo Soldiers ("gee, you're almost as good as we are"), though it's better than the attitude men had towards women at the end of WWII ("yeah, you built airplanes and tanks, now we're back, go have babies and cook for us").

I think the ending worked very well within the "this has all happened before" motif. I like the idea that, despite the Colonials actively trying to break the cycle, we're seemingly destined to repeat the mistakes of the past once again. The robotics montage at the end was amazing for this purpose, IMO.

Forgive me, but I didn't see how the Colonials were remotely trying to "break the cycle."

I mean, we got to watch a group of aristocratic white males lay in the grass discussing how they planned to bring civilization to a tribe of brown people. Seriously. And we were supposed to cheer for them.

Then, this same cohort also spearheaded the movement to abandon all the technology and scientific information produced through centuries of work, in favor of a wonderfully simple pastoral life on their newly-invaded world. I guess all those disabled and sick people we saw in the hospital alongside Roslyn are going to be left to die on ice floes or something. What a new and fresh start for civilization!

[Side note: I was impressed that they didn't even bother to pretend that Sam consented to be set off to his death, they just announced that he'd be flying into the sun for them. It's just assumed that, of course, he's broken and therefore he'd be up for that. Which, EEEEEWW. Imagine if, say, it was Tyrol who'd be flying the ships into the sun...they'd have included at least a sentence explaining WHY he was doing that, right? But nope, Sam's broken and therefore must be happy to die.]

I'm sure all the women of the new society will be likewise thrilled to know of their exponentially-increased odds of dying in childbirth, particularly since everyone gets to go back to using the rhythm method now that the men have decided that all advanced contraception will be flown into the sun. What a new, fresh start for a civilization!

Oh, and let's not forget the infant mortality rates, either. Any new, fresh start to human civilization should include the preventable deaths of lots of babies.

I could go on, but you get the idea.

Portraying knowledge and information as the source of corruption is not new and fresh.

Being racist, paternalistic jerks is not new.

Invading other people's land and forcing your civilization on them because you're "more advanced" is not new.

Forcing women, children, and the disabled to suffer because you want to give up "unnatural" things like medicine is not new.

Instead, all that crap is the same regressive bullshit that has been done by every anti-enlightenment regressive culture for thousands of years. The fact that the writer(s) expect anybody to believe that this is about "starting over" is laughable.

The last scene was supposed to be all like, "Awww, they totally started over anew, yet it all ended up the same! Who'da thunk it?!" Except...they did absolutely nothing new. They brought all the absolute worst traits of humanity to a new planet, forced those traits onto the indigenous people, and--shock!!!--somehow this didn't result in utopia. Dur dur dur.

Forgive me, but I didn't see how the Colonials were remotely trying to "break the cycle."

I mean, we got to watch a group of aristocratic white males lay in the grass discussing how they planned to bring civilization to a tribe of brown people. Seriously. And we were supposed to cheer for them.

I can't imagine how you've been watching this show for so long and still don't get that no, you aren't supposed to cheer for them. The whole point is that nobody's perfect, nobody's fully "good" nor fully "evil." If this show were so simplistic that there were good guys and bad guys and nothing else none of us would have bothered with it.


Then, this same cohort also spearheaded the movement to abandon all the technology and scientific information produced through centuries of work, in favor of a wonderfully simple pastoral life on their newly-invaded world. I guess all those disabled and sick people we saw in the hospital alongside Roslyn are going to be left to die on ice floes or something. What a new and fresh start for civilization!

Perhaps by now the Colonials are a little dubious of the value of technology, having their homeworlds nuked as a result of technology gone out of control.


[Side note: I was impressed that they didn't even bother to pretend that Sam consented to be set off to his death, they just announced that he'd be flying into the sun for them. It's just assumed that, of course, he's broken and therefore he'd be up for that. Which, EEEEEWW. Imagine if, say, it was Tyrol who'd be flying the ships into the sun...they'd have included at least a sentence explaining WHY he was doing that, right? But nope, Sam's broken and therefore must be happy to die.]

See, I can't imagine him NOT doing it voluntarily. Sam was fully aware of what was going on around him, he just didn't react to it using his old cognitive abilities. He was aware enough to stop Starbuck from killing him, he was aware enough to participate in the download of resurrection data, he was aware enough to accept instructions to disable the Cylon defensive batteries, and he was aware enough to speak to Starbuck when she said her goodbyes. And now suddenly all that gets forgotten? C'mon.


I'm sure all the women of the new society will be likewise thrilled to know of their exponentially-increased odds of dying in childbirth, particularly since everyone gets to go back to using the rhythm method now that the men have decided that all advanced contraception will be flown into the sun. What a new, fresh start for a civilization!

Oh, and let's not forget the infant mortality rates, either. Any new, fresh start to human civilization should include the preventable deaths of lots of babies.

All of that is based on the assumption that facilities to manufacture those things could have been constructed. Remember that way back on New Caprica, even after having been there a year Starbuck still had to go begging for antibiotics... a substance so basic you can make it from a moldy piece of bread... from Lee because the only available source was what was stored on the Battlestars. Two years later the supply would be even further depleted. What would the benefit be of keeping the ships around, exactly?


I could go on, but you get the idea.


Yeah, somebody's got an axe to grind ;)


Portraying knowledge and information as the source of corruption is not new and fresh.

And?


Being racist, paternalistic jerks is not new.

Invading other people's land and forcing your civilization on them because you're "more advanced" is not new.

Frankly, I'd have seen this as being more of a problem if the colonials HAD built a city instead of spreading out. As it is, they'll be at a disadvantage as the natives will know the land, plants, animals, and are experienced in the hunter/gatherer way of life. Frankly I see the colonials as being more likely to get owned. Think of how the European colonists were screwed in North America without help from the locals. The difference is that in BSG, there ain't no more colonists coming. The Colonials will be at the mercy of the locals.


Forcing women, children, and the disabled to suffer because you want to give up "unnatural" things like medicine is not new.

You're making some assumptions here.


Instead, all that crap is the same regressive bullshit that has been done by every anti-enlightenment regressive culture for thousands of years. The fact that the writer(s) expect anybody to believe that this is about "starting over" is laughable.

The last scene was supposed to be all like, "Awww, they totally started over anew, yet it all ended up the same! Who'da thunk it?!" Except...they did absolutely nothing new. They brought all the absolute worst traits of humanity to a new planet, forced those traits onto the indigenous people, and--shock!!!--somehow this didn't result in utopia. Dur dur dur.

Not sure what traits you're talking about having been forced on the locals. More assumptions.

The thing is, the Colonials could have geared down. The locals would know the lay of the land, the edible foods, the medicinal herbs. And so, you could do something out of 1631, where the colonials bring their knowledge of advanced technology, and trade that to the Locals for food and medicine. That way, you would be able to maintain things like Toilet Paper, Medicines. That way they could have actually broken the cycle. But no, they had to give in to human nature and completely ignore the lessons of the past.

But, no, the Colonials had to put themselves at the mercy of the Terror Birds and the Saber-Teeth. Quite frankly, I am surprised that they lasted long enough for Hera to become Mitochondrial Eve.

See that's kind of how I see it... where the Colonials would be virtually helpless unless they integrated with the locals and learned form them.

I can see Tyrol and Adama surviving on their own, assuming some kind of survival training from the military (You never know when your Raptor might crash somewhere.) and living on that... but the average Colonial settler wouldn't know any more about survival than the average NSG poster, and certainly wouldn't have the expertise or facilities to replicate even the simplest technology.

Think about it... if I dropped you in the middle of nowhere right now, I can guarantee no matter how many times you've used a toaster in your life you won't be able to construct one. As technology goes, you can't get much simpler than a toaster.

Even something like a metal knife... How would you make one? Gonna mine an iron cluster? Gonna build a forge? What will you hit the cluster with to make your ingots? Gotta build a hammer first. What will you use? A rock?

No way. The Colonials are screwed unless they make nice with the locals and hope they're not dealing with cannibals...

Forgive me, but I didn't see how the Colonials were remotely trying to "break the cycle."

I mean, we got to watch a group of aristocratic white males lay in the grass discussing how they planned to bring civilization to a tribe of brown people. Seriously. And we were supposed to cheer for them.

Then, this same cohort also spearheaded the movement to abandon all the technology and scientific information produced through centuries of work...

I was impressed that they didn't even bother to pretend that Sam consented to be set off to his death, they just announced that he'd be flying into the sun for them...

I'm sure all the women of the new society will be likewise thrilled to know of their exponentially-increased odds of dying in childbirth...

The last scene was supposed to be all like, "Awww, they totally started over anew, yet it all ended up the same! Who'da thunk it?!" Except...they did absolutely nothing new. They brought all the absolute worst traits of humanity to a new planet, forced those traits onto the indigenous people, and--shock!!!--somehow this didn't result in utopia. Dur dur dur.
Myself and my flat applaud you.

That's the best summation of the finale I've seen so far; we felt much the same.

Galactica fighting/ramming the Cylon colony? Awesome.

Colonising 'new' Earth? Not so much.

But then, I'm not hugely surprised. The entire run of the show has displayed rather poor understanding of people; a common trait in scifi shows/literature. The writer's understanding of ethics, or simply how relatively small groups of people operate is just way off. Those Colonists who weren't main characters were completely passive people, simply plot devices for Adama and others to bounce off. Even the supposedly 'rebellious' tilliam mining ship, the only apparently politically aware group in the entire fleet, did nothing but go 'raaaagh!' until Tyroll instigated a strike... which then pussied out.

BSG was a great show, but with little depth. As has been said before, ethically, politically, technologically, scientifically, etc., it makes no sense.

See that's kind of how I see it... where the Colonials would be virtually helpless unless they integrated with the locals and learned form them.

No argument there, as people who don't know the land, they are screwed. That doesn't mean they have to give up everything they have and go native, it means that they need to integrate the two and meet in the middle, somewhere around the Industrial Revolution. It's not what they had, but it is better than nothing.

I can see Tyrol and Adama surviving on their own, assuming some kind of survival training from the military (You never know when your Raptor might crash somewhere.) and living on that... but the average Colonial settler wouldn't know any more about survival than the average NSG poster, and certainly wouldn't have the expertise or facilities to replicate even the simplest technology.

Think about it... if I dropped you in the middle of nowhere right now, I can guarantee no matter how many times you've used a toaster in your life you won't be able to construct one. As technology goes, you can't get much simpler than a toaster.

They have manufacturing equipment for missiles, vipers, ammunition, and some basic pharmaceuticals onboard Galactica and a few others. They have massive amounts of maintenance equipment across the fleet. They have an entire ship dedicated to Agro (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Botanical_Cruiser) in their fleet (they explicitly showed it as the first Raptor took off from the ship to go to Earth). They have people with the technical know-how within the fleet that they could go down, build a city, and integrate the locals and themselves.

It could have been done. They had the materials and the tech and the knowledge, they just wanted to chain themselves to the idiot ball so that they COULDN'T drop it this time.

Even something like a metal knife... How would you make one? Gonna mine an iron cluster? Gonna build a forge? What will you hit the cluster with to make your ingots? Gotta build a hammer first. What will you use? A rock?

No way. The Colonials are screwed unless they make nice with the locals and hope they're not dealing with cannibals...

They have a Mining Ship (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Monarch) in the fleet. They also have a Refinery Ship (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Hitei_Kan) that they could re-task to act as a refinery for Steel, Bronze, Titanium, etc. until they can get their own systems set up on the planet's surface.

As for knife making. I may not have practical experience, but I do understand the how. Give me some raw materials and some trial and error time, and I can figure out how to do so.

Toasters and the like are out the window, sure, but you can at least gear down to the point where you can, in a generation or two, re-create them for yourself.

Hell, they already have the new city's Sewage Treatment facility (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Demetrius) there, and by simply hooking up their pipes to it, they could create a city from the ships which can land easily, and expand as needed.

Hell, they gave up ready-made Cold Storage (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Kimba_Huta) and Hospital facilities. And who knows what other uses they could have put the rest of the fleet too.

If they had done so, they could have provided a comfortable life for themselves, and integrated the Locals, while uplifting them to a better life with medicine, shelter, and easy access to food.

You're right that they had a lot of that stuff on the ships, but Adama sending the fleet into the Sun is a lot like Cortez burning his ships so that there was no turning back. If they were going to start with a clean slate, then they'd have to let go COMPLETELY of the old way.

Myself and my flat applaud you.

Better tell them to stop clapping, I've been put in my place: clearly I, and you and your friends, all simply "have an axe to grind."

Oh, and that last scene, where the exposition was so ham-handed and clumsy that a CSi writer would have been ashamed to use it? Yeah, I'm sure that's just my "axe grinding" too. :D

Somebody needs to get laid.

Better tell them to stop clapping, I've been put in my place: clearly I, and you and your friends, all simply "have an axe to grind."

Oh, and that last scene, where the exposition was so ham-handed and clumsy that a CSi writer would have been ashamed to use it? Yeah, I'm sure that's just my "axe grinding" too. :D

One wonders how you were able to enjoy the series at all. That was hardly the first time the writers of the show bludgeoned us with literary devices.

On the podcast by RDM for the finale, he discusses an alternate ending they had planned but had to scrap because of the writers strike (I'm not sure why):

There was more than one rebel Cylon basestar and Galactica would have led them in a final assault on the Cylon homeworld (not The Colony at this point). Galactica went out in the final battle before crash-landing on (our) Earth. Half the fleet got wiped out in a Cylon attack. Gaeta and Zarek won the argument in the Mutiny and were allowed to take a bunch more ships full of people who agreed with them off into space. The Final Cylon was a much bigger deal, since after Ellen resurrected Cavil actually talked her into joining forces with him. Six's pregenancy actually had a point, as the loss of the baby (after Ellen's survival was revealed) would have made Tigh abandon her, driving Six mad with rage and she would have taken Hera prisoner back to the baseship. Kara would have still found Real Earth, but it sounds like it would have been through the yellow star and gas giant referenced in her early Season 4 conversations. Starbuck still vanishes without trace though.

But then, I'm not hugely surprised. The entire run of the show has displayed rather poor understanding of people

You are confusing modern day (western) humans with the humanlike aliens from BSG. An easy thing to do, since they look so similar, but keep in mind that they are not us.

On the podcast by RDM for the finale, he discusses an alternate ending they had planned but had to scrap because of the writers strike (I'm not sure why):


It's not that they had to, it was just that having all that time off gave him a chance to rethink it.

It's not that they had to, it was just that having all that time off gave him a chance to rethink it.

And I for one am glad he did. As bad as the ending was, I have a feeling it was much worse in the original idea.

And yes, I understand the reference to Cortez's burning of the ships. But he was at least smart enough to pull everything of value off of them first.

However, the point still remains, that the Colonials made things that much harder on themselves this way. They could have offloaded everything, found a better ending for Anders then fly the ships into the sun, turned most of the ships into either scrap or housing (I.E. Colonial One, Astral Queen, the Cargo Containers on the Gemini (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Gemini_(RDM)), the various passenger ships, etc.). Then, you send the engines into the sun, and even then, you turn as much as you can into raw materials.

Hell, the Zephyr, the Ring Ship, probably had enough to build a couple Apartment Buildings from. And that's before you remove the beds and furnishings.

It just seems like they could have devoted more time to trying to create an actual ending, as opposed to what they did.