NationStates Jolt Archive

Well I still haven't fully digested last Friday's. I mean, wow. Biiiiiig questions... I think we have more questions now than we did going into that one.

-If Starbuck isn't a Cylon, and yet she just burned her own body in a funeral pyre, then what the hell is she???

-Has President Roslin completely lost her faith? What will this do to her leadership style?

-Ellen Tigh???? Seriously?

-Apparently the Earth was once populated by untold numbers of different Cylon models. Does that mean each is unique?

-Do the Earthborn Cylons have their own separate resurrection facility?

-If so, has Ellen Tigh already used it? (She was believed killed in the attack on the colonies, but Adama found her in the fleet. Was she resurrected then?)

-If there is such a facility, is it possible that it can resurrect humans now, too? (Starbuck)

-How did the wreckage from Starbuck's Viper get from the atmosphere of a gas giant, light years away, to a field on Earth?

-Leoben knows something... But is afraid to talk. What is it?

My head hurts.

If the Final 5 do indeed resurrect, then why would the Cylons be so worried if they got airlocked?

what is the relationship between the cylons that tried to destroy humanity--that are supposedly new since the last cylon war--and those that have existed for thousands of years?

how did these ancient cylons get integrated into human society and why? have they been controlling things the whole time?

were there humans on earth when it was destroyed or was it a whole cylon society?

how do they think this shit up?


and as horrifying as dee's suicide was, DAYAM it was an amazing moment. it was so extremely well done.

If the Final 5 do indeed resurrect, then why would the Cylons be so worried if they got airlocked?
they must not have known the truth about them.

The final 5 were reincarnated. Does that mean that Cylon souls were reborn in human bodies (This would, incidentally, explain why he and that 6 were able to reproduce)?

If the Colonial humans check back far enough, would they find that they were descended from Cylons?

Will D'Anna go with the rest of the fleet?

If the final 5 are reincarnated Cylon souls, why not others in the fleet?

What further significance will the baby hybrids have?

The list goes on.

and as horrifying as dee's suicide was, DAYAM it was an amazing moment. it was so extremely well done.

It did catch me completely off guard.

Didn't they test Ellen for bein' a cylon? Wasn't that a source of tension between, well, everyone because it meant that Adama's test was postponed as well as it being something that pissed of Tigh? I mean, they were able to test the bones of the Earth cylons, so the final five can be tested...

It did catch me completely off guard.

Didn't they test Ellen for bein' a cylon? Wasn't that a source of tension between, well, everyone because it meant that Adama's test was postponed as well as it being something that pissed of Tigh? I mean, they were able to test the bones of the Earth cylons, so the final five can be tested...
geez i remember that boomer was shown to be a cylon on dr baltars test but that he suppressed the result. did they subsequently show that that test worked and/or did they develop another test?

how do you tell the difference between a cylon and a human? i dont remember.

Also whats the incentive of the Final 5 to go to the trouble of infiltrating the fleet, get attacked and captured, just to lead them back to a destroyed uninhabitable Earth?

If the downed Viper and the corpse inside it really do belong to Kara Thrace...well, wtf?!

how do you tell the difference between a cylon and a human? i dont remember.
Reaction to radiation from plutonium, or some such thing. But, IIRC, the Final Five can't be detected in this way.

Lucky for Ronald Moore...


Also whats the incentive of the Final 5 to go to the trouble of infiltrating the fleet, get attacked and captured, just to lead them back to a destroyed uninhabitable Earth?
They don't have an incentive; they didn't know they were who there are.


If the downed Viper and the corpse inside it really do belong to Kara Thrace...well, wtf?!
Ken.

And what's with burning the body? Dental record check, anyone? Get Doc Cottal on that corpse, stat!

geez i remember that boomer was shown to be a cylon on dr baltars test but that he suppressed the result. did they subsequently show that that test worked and/or did they develop another test?

how do you tell the difference between a cylon and a human? i dont remember.

Dr. Baltar sits in front of a machine, a bunch of things happen on his screen, and then something in the script indicates whether or not the person is a Cylon such as a shocked look or him talking to his mental cylon fuckbuddy.

-If there is such a facility, is it possible that it can resurrect humans now, too? (Starbuck)



This also ties in to when Adama had a flashback to when he was young and stumbled upon Cylons doing experiments on humans. It may be where they learned how to duplicate the "outer skin " and memories of humans (ie Saul)

I don't think Baltar was actually testing anyone, especially after Boomer's test. Does anyone remember if Boomer was tested before or after Ellen?

Reaction to radiation from plutonium, or some such thing. But, IIRC, the Final Five can't be detected in this way.

Lucky for Ronald Moore...



They don't have an incentive; they didn't know they were who there are.



Ken.

And what's with burning the body? Dental record check, anyone? Get Doc Cottal on that corpse, stat!
i thought she deserved a proper burial. it may be no more than that.

depending on whether or not she tells anyone in tomorrow's episode.

Reaction to radiation from plutonium, or some such thing. But, IIRC, the Final Five can't be detected in this way.

Lucky for Ronald Moore...



They don't have an incentive; they didn't know they were who there are.



Ken.

And what's with burning the body? Dental record check, anyone? Get Doc Cottal on that corpse, stat!

Ken?

And why was were the Ovions running a resort and casino on Carillon in the middle of an intergalactic war?

Dr. Baltar sits in front of a machine, a bunch of things happen on his screen, and then something in the script indicates whether or not the person is a Cylon such as a shocked look or him talking to his mental cylon fuckbuddy.
so there is no other test....

hmmm....

they knew they were cylon bones in this episode?

This also ties in to when Adama had a flashback to when he was young and stumbled upon Cylons doing experiments on humans. It may be where they learned how to duplicate the "outer skin " and memories of humans (ie Saul)

But the question there is, if they were doing those experiments in Adama's lifetime, how were there humanoid Cylons 2000 years ago?

And why was were the Ovions running a resort and casino on Carillon in the middle of an intergalactic war?
to make money. why else?

But the question there is, if they were doing those experiments in Adama's lifetime, how were there humanoid Cylons 2000 years ago?
yeah.

were the skinjobs made by these ancient cylons instead of ....well i guess i dont know how they are supposed to have been created...by the metal cylons in an effort to evolve?

yeah.

were the skinjobs made by these ancient cylons instead of ....well i guess i dont know how they are supposed to have been created...by the metal cylons in an effort to evolve?

Which might suggest that the experiments Adama saw weren't on creating the skinjobs, but on creating hybrids, and that the humanoid cylons were already around but wanted to go the next step (reproduction rather than what was essentially cloning).

so there is no other test....

hmmm....

they knew they were cylon bones in this episode?
That's how they determined that the thirteenth colony were Cylons. At first they thought that they had made cylons that revolted, but Baltar said "We tested the bones" from several different sites and they all came up cylon.

But even the Centurion wasn't the kind they had, so everyone is a completely different set.

Maybe the Centurions are the ones that revolted. That's what they were seeding when Baltar started preaching to that one on the base star, and the Raiders having to be lobotomized. Part of that, "This has happened before, and will happen again..." thing.

to make money. why else?

How though? I mean the Cylons are robots, computers with some arms and legs and that damned glowing eye. They don't gamble. And the humans are about to become extinct... you can't gamble when your dead!

And why was were the Ovions running a resort and casino on Carillon in the middle of an intergalactic war?
Because every war needs a Rick's Cafe Americain.

Which might suggest that the experiments Adama saw weren't on creating the skinjobs, but on creating hybrids, and that the humanoid cylons were already around but wanted to go the next step (reproduction rather than what was essentially cloning).
which is good except for the pregnant 6 in the brig.

unless they do a "do over" and she is pregnant by someone other than tigh

I don't think Baltar was actually testing anyone, especially after Boomer's test. Does anyone remember if Boomer was tested before or after Ellen?
Before, I believe.

Wasn't she the first to be tested, after Adama and Roslin?


depending on whether or not she tells anyone in tomorrow's episode.
She will, while fraking Lee.


Ken?
Scots for 'know', or in this situation, 'I know'.

That's how they determined that the thirteenth colony were Cylons. At first they thought that they had made cylons that revolted, but Baltar said "We tested the bones" from several different sites and they all came up cylon.

But even the Centurion wasn't the kind they had, so everyone is a completely different set.

Maybe the Centurions are the ones that revolted. That's what they were seeding when Baltar started preaching to that one on the base star, and the Raiders having to be lobotomized. Part of that, "This has happened before, and will happen again..." thing.
im so confused now. i guess ill have to watch the marathon from last week that i recorded to see if that helps.

Maybe the Centurions are the ones that revolted. That's what they were seeding when Baltar started preaching to that one on the base star, and the Raiders having to be lobotomized. Part of that, "This has happened before, and will happen again..." thing.

Interesting idea, but then where are the Centurions? They arnt affected by radiation and there should still be thriving Centurion cities theoretically.

which is good except for the pregnant 6 in the brig.

unless they do a "do over" and she is pregnant by someone other than tigh

And Athena. or Hera, I get their names mixed up...

Interesting idea, but then where are the Centurions? They arnt affected by radiation and there should still be thriving Centurion cities theoretically.

Nuclear weapons emit EMPs.

And Athena. or Hera, I get their names mixed up...
is it an ancient cylon dream to have it be possible for cylon and human to mate? is that the whole point of why hera is so special or is she supposed to be the only human/cylon child ever?

is that why there are new cylon skinjobs?

in which case killing off all humanity isnt that good a goal...

Interesting idea, but then where are the Centurions? They arnt affected by radiation and there should still be thriving Centurion cities theoretically.

Blown to shit, they aren't immune to explosions. They pulled a Centurion head out of the ashes of their dig, that's when the Diana or whatever said it wasn't one of their designs.

Interesting idea, but then where are the Centurions? They arnt affected by radiation and there should still be thriving Centurion cities theoretically.
oh are there centurion "colonies" somewhere out there?

is it an ancient cylon dream to have it be possible for cylon and human to mate? is that the whole point of why hera is so special or is she supposed to be the only human/cylon child ever?

is that why there are new cylon skinjobs?

in which case killing off all humanity isnt that good a goal...

Well, if they figured out how to reproduce but felt that humanity was in danger of itself, they start exterminating them while finding a few sturdy 'survivors' to start reproducing with. They get rid of most of the dangerous old population while they start their new enlightened one.

which is good except for the pregnant 6 in the brig.

unless they do a "do over" and she is pregnant by someone other than tigh

Could just as easily been Gaius.

The Ghost of Ayn Rand thought that Cylons were invented by Eric Stoltz when his daughter was suicide bombed with her cult-mate boyfriend on Caprica only a few generations before the start of the series.

That's what the Ghost of Ayn Rand thought.

The Ghost of Ayn Rand is sad, now.

Well I still haven't fully digested last Friday's. I mean, wow. Biiiiiig questions... I think we have more questions now than we did going into that one.

-If Starbuck isn't a Cylon, and yet she just burned her own body in a funeral pyre, then what the hell is she???

-Has President Roslin completely lost her faith? What will this do to her leadership style?

-Ellen Tigh???? Seriously?

-Apparently the Earth was once populated by untold numbers of different Cylon models. Does that mean each is unique?

-Do the Earthborn Cylons have their own separate resurrection facility?

-If so, has Ellen Tigh already used it? (She was believed killed in the attack on the colonies, but Adama found her in the fleet. Was she resurrected then?)

-If there is such a facility, is it possible that it can resurrect humans now, too? (Starbuck)

-How did the wreckage from Starbuck's Viper get from the atmosphere of a gas giant, light years away, to a field on Earth?

-Leoben knows something... But is afraid to talk. What is it?

My head hurts.

Meh, I'm very disappointed that the Earth is fucked up.

Meh, I'm very disappointed that the Earth is fucked up.

That's because nobody listened to Cylon Al Gore.

Now they're sorry.

that's because nobody listened to cylon al gore.

Now they're sorry.

lol

Well clearly Starbuck died and was resurrected, probably in the Cylon fashion if not exactly the same, but her model is probably unique in some way. The Harbinger Of Death (tm) Mk. II prototype. Seems to forget the dying part as part of her programming.

I thought that the suicide of whats-her-face kinda puts a kabosh on the "final five" being anything special at this point. Though they could all be Starbuck-type models, and have died and resurrected over and over never being consciously aware of it. And be really fucking old.

The Colonials are descendents of the Cylons of Earth. The Colonials are the original Cylons. Cylons and humans are the same thing. That's the big revelation. The Earth humans are considered Cylons because they invented ressurection technology, but they're still as human as anyone else. Their bodies are just Cylon, in the sense that they are built to download/resurrect. Since the Earth Cylons are actually humans, and the Colonials are descendants of Cylons, when Starbuck died (I still dunno how she was transported to Earth) she was ressurected in an Earth Cylon body. Starbuck is an Earth Cylon, just like Tigh, Anders etc.

The timeline of BSG according to me:

3000 years ago: the only humans that exist are on Earth. They invent robots, and resurrection technology. They use the resurrection technology on themselves. They are indistinguishable from Cylons.

Unspecified time ago: the Earth robots revolt, blow up Earth. Some, led by the final five, escape and move to Kobol. They're still cylons, but they no longer have any ressurection facilities.

Somehow the timeline within the BSG universe has gotten mixed up - they think they originated on Kobol, and the 13th tribe left for Earth. In reality, I think they originated on Earth, and there was no 13th tribe.

And here I was so certain the twelfth Cylon was Bob Dylan.

And here I was so certain the twelfth Cylon was Bob Dylan.

No, he was the 12th Travelling Wilburry.

It did catch me completely off guard.

Didn't they test Ellen for bein' a cylon? Wasn't that a source of tension between, well, everyone because it meant that Adama's test was postponed as well as it being something that pissed of Tigh? I mean, they were able to test the bones of the Earth cylons, so the final five can be tested...

Yes, you refer to the Season 1 Episode "Tigh me up, Tigh me down" in which Adama and Ellen were both to be tested, along with the rest of the command level personnel. It was implied back then that SOMEBODY tested positive, because at the end of the episode "Head Six" leaned over Baltar's shoulder, looking at the screen, and said "Everybody gets a pass today?" referring to how Baltar fudged Boomer's result earlier, because he was afraid of her reaction should he tell her she'd tested positive.

That tells us (or at least strongly implies) 2 things:
-Baltar fudged positive results for at least one tested person that day other than Boomer
-Baltar's test is effective in discovering Earth born Cylon models.


how do you tell the difference between a cylon and a human? i dont remember.

Something about the effect of certain types of radiation on the physiology of Cylons. This was dicovered because of the effect of the radiation on Leoben at the Ragnar Anchorage in the Pilot Episode, when he suffered from prolonged exposure to it.


so there is no other test....

hmmm....

they knew they were cylon bones in this episode?

It would appear the Cylons have their own test. It is unknown whether it operates on the same principle as Baltar's.

Which might suggest that the experiments Adama saw weren't on creating the skinjobs, but on creating hybrids, and that the humanoid cylons were already around but wanted to go the next step (reproduction rather than what was essentially cloning).

I think what Adama stumbled upon was the result of the purely mechanical Cylons attempting to replicate the skinjobs as a result of encountering the remianing Earthborn models.

Maybe the Centurions are the ones that revolted. That's what they were seeding when Baltar started preaching to that one on the base star, and the Raiders having to be lobotomized. Part of that, "This has happened before, and will happen again..." thing.

Very possible. We've already seen how quickly Cylon Centurion type models become rebellious once they are given independent thought. Natalie (A Number 6) has already seen this when she ordered a Centurion to take some prisoners away, and it looked at her almost as if it were thinking "Who the hell do you think you are?" and she only got it to respond after she said "Please?"


The timeline of BSG according to me:


I must disagree.

According to statements by RDM, it's more like this:

2,000 years ago humans "stole fire from the gods" as it were, and started to create mechanical life on Kobol. The gods were angry, and mankind scattered. The humans established the 12 colonies, and the skinjob Cylons went and established the 13th Colony, Earth.

It would appear that at some point shortly after that, Earth was devastated by nuclear war, although it is unknown who did the nuking. It's possible that it was a war between skinjobs and toasters, which might explain why Cavil (#1) was so reluctant to give independent thought to the Centurions and Raiders in the Cylon fleet. He may have some knowledge on this matter and that's why he said it was forbidden.

No, he was the 12th Travelling Wilburry.

Well, he was one of the final five Traveling Wilburys. Wait ... this means ... the Traveling Wilburys were Cylons. Somewhere George Harrison is playing his guitar on a resurrection ship.

Well, he was one of the final five Traveling Wilburys. Wait ... this means ... the Traveling Wilburys were Cylons. Somewhere George Harrison is playing his guitar on a resurrection ship.

I've got my mind set on autosave, I've got my mind set on autosave...

I must disagree.

According to statements by RDM, it's more like this:

2,000 years ago humans "stole fire from the gods" as it were, and started to create mechanical life on Kobol. The gods were angry, and mankind scattered. The humans established the 12 colonies, and the skinjob Cylons went and established the 13th Colony, Earth.

It would appear that at some point shortly after that, Earth was devastated by nuclear war, although it is unknown who did the nuking. It's possible that it was a war between skinjobs and toasters, which might explain why Cavil (#1) was so reluctant to give independent thought to the Centurions and Raiders in the Cylon fleet. He may have some knowledge on this matter and that's why he said it was forbidden.

I really don't get why people still take anything RDM says is truth seriously. He lied about Ellen not being a Cylon. He lied about Hera being the only Cylon/Human crossbreed. He lied about a lot of shit, why not lie about the biggest plot twist in the series? Seriously, Earth is older than Kobol in the timeline. According to the dating in the show itself, Kobol existed 2000 years ago and the Cylon bones on Earth were dated as "thousands and thousands" of years old. Older than Kobol, I'm willing to bet.

When I heard Ellen was the final cylon, I thought"why did I wait 6 months for that?", but the rest of the episode was great. When Adama had the gun on himself, that was the most tense moment of the series for me. The episode left so many questions, and I sat awake for a long trime trying to connect everything.

When I heard Ellen was the final cylon, I thought"why did I wait 6 months for that?", but the rest of the episode was great. When Adama had the gun on himself, that was the most tense moment of the series for me. The episode left so many questions, and I sat awake for a long trime trying to connect everything.

Yeah me too. It was an interesting role reversal in that this time it was Adama losing it and Tigh becoming his anchor. Notice how it was Tigh trying to stop Adama from drinking, and was just as unsuccessful.

I really don't get why people still take anything RDM says is truth seriously. He lied about Ellen not being a Cylon. He lied about Hera being the only Cylon/Human crossbreed. He lied about a lot of shit, why not lie about the biggest plot twist in the series? Seriously, Earth is older than Kobol in the timeline. According to the dating in the show itself, Kobol existed 2000 years ago and the Cylon bones on Earth were dated as "thousands and thousands" of years old. Older than Kobol, I'm willing to bet.

Well in fairness, they sort of make this stuff up as they go along so when he said that Ellen wasn't a cylon and that Hera was the only crossbreed, that was the truth at the time. It wasn't until later that they picked the Final Five.

In this case, the last 10 episodes are done so...

I really don't get why people still take anything RDM says is truth seriously. He lied about Ellen not being a Cylon. He lied about Hera being the only Cylon/Human crossbreed. He lied about a lot of shit, why not lie about the biggest plot twist in the series? Seriously, Earth is older than Kobol in the timeline. According to the dating in the show itself, Kobol existed 2000 years ago and the Cylon bones on Earth were dated as "thousands and thousands" of years old. Older than Kobol, I'm willing to bet.

I remain unconvinced that they've even 'found' Earth, or at least the planet that we all know and love. It seems deliberate by this point--given the number of shots that they've shown of the planet--that they've failed to show any images that show the continents of the planet they've arrived at. They've found something interesting, don't get me wrong, but they've not found Earth.

which is good except for the pregnant 6 in the brig.

unless they do a "do over" and she is pregnant by someone other than tigh

The Final Five are supposed to be "fundamentally different." This may include the ability to breed with both humans and the non-five cylons.

they would seem to be a whole different species of cylon completely different from the modern ones.

now im thinking that the fleet was "saved" because it held the final 5 that the cylons couldnt identify.

and weren't supposed to identify

hmmmm....

they would seem to be a whole different species of cylon completely different from the modern ones.

This is probably true especially when the final five are "fundamentally different", lack model numbers, existed two millenia ago. I wonder if they, a handful of survivors, were the ones who started the cylon revolt in the 12 colonies. It would help square why the other models were programmed not to seek out their identities.

The Final Five are supposed to be "fundamentally different." This may include the ability to breed with both humans and the non-five cylons.

It definitely does. Tigh impregnated that captive Six, and Tyrol knocked up Cally.

It definitely does. Tigh impregnated that captive Six, and Tyrol knocked up Cally.

But, apparently, Anders did not knock up Kara.

It definitely does. Tigh impregnated that captive Six

Not necessarily, the father could be Guias.

But, apparently, Anders did not knock up Kara.

Man that was brutal. Extra points would have been if she had killed the kid, but really, it didn't need to be that brutal...

When I heard Ellen was the final cylon, I thought"why did I wait 6 months for that?", but the rest of the episode was great. When Adama had the gun on himself, that was the most tense moment of the series for me. The episode left so many questions, and I sat awake for a long trime trying to connect everything.

You have to admit, with all the absurd build-up to the revelation of the final Cylon, it was going to be a disappointment no matter who it was. It was either going to be someone big, like Adama, Roslin, or Baltar, which would be a let down because they were the obvious choices, or it was going to be someone random like Ellen, Gaeta, or Dee, which would be a let down because there wasn't enough character build up for the revelation to have enough weight. Either way, there's no one in the show that could have been a "satisfying" final Cylon.

What intrigues me the most is Ellen's actions on New Caprica. Did she know that she and Tigh were final five Cylons? Is that why she was so willing to do whatever it took to save him? It certainly opens up the possibility for hidden motives for the way she acted.

Man that was brutal. Extra points would have been if she had killed the kid, but really, it didn't need to be that brutal...

Wait, what?

Wasn't Starbuck a dude in the original series?

Wasn't Starbuck a dude in the original series?

Not just a dude - it was Faceman :p. Who also met some glowing aliens that "upgraded" him ;)

So.. will the crew of this new series also travel back in time to Nazi Germany, facilitated by the inventions of the mysterious child genius Dr Zee ?

I remain unconvinced that they've even 'found' Earth, or at least the planet that we all know and love. It seems deliberate by this point--given the number of shots that they've shown of the planet--that they've failed to show any images that show the continents of the planet they've arrived at. They've found something interesting, don't get me wrong, but they've not found Earth.

I think they found the earth version of the cylon homeworld.

Not necessarily, the father could be Guias.

I don't think so... Do we know for sure that Baltar had access to this particular Cylon recently?

Wait, what?

I think he's talking about Tori blowing Cally out the Viper launch tube.

Not just a dude - it was Faceman :p. Who also met some glowing aliens that "upgraded" him ;)

So.. will the crew of this new series also travel back in time to Nazi Germany, facilitated by the inventions of the mysterious child genius Dr Zee ?

That would herald the end of my sanity.

Yep. Who also met some glowing aliens that "upgraded" him ;)


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a344/stevezero2/Dirk20Benedict20Galactica20Starbuck.jpg

to

http://weblogs.redeyechicago.com/showpatrol/images/2008/03/28/starbuck.jpg

I think I like the upgrade!

It will shock me to find that ronald moore is the one true cylon god.

It will shock me to find that ronald moore is the one true cylon god.

I think the final episode of the Galactica series will be the TV equivalent of lining all the fans up and kicking them in the genitals.

You have to admit, with all the absurd build-up to the revelation of the final Cylon, it was going to be a disappointment no matter who it was. It was either going to be someone big, like Adama, Roslin, or Baltar, which would be a let down because they were the obvious choices, or it was going to be someone random like Ellen, Gaeta, or Dee, which would be a let down because there wasn't enough character build up for the revelation to have enough weight. Either way, there's no one in the show that could have been a "satisfying" final Cylon.

What intrigues me the most is Ellen's actions on New Caprica. Did she know that she and Tigh were final five Cylons? Is that why she was so willing to do whatever it took to save him? It certainly opens up the possibility for hidden motives for the way she acted.
if you think about tigh and ellen it makes a good eternal love story.

especially since he killed her not too too long before finding out that they were both ancient cylons that were destined to be together for thousands of years.

its a very poignant story for a couple who were so thoroughly unlikeable.

Either way, there's no one in the show that could have been a "satisfying" final Cylon.

The whole planet earth, similar to Unicron ?
Or even the Galactica itself ;)

The whole planet earth, similar to Unicron ?
Or even the Galactica itself ;)

Those would seem contrived, at least to me. There's no emotional attachment to Earth or the Galactica on the part of the viewer like there is to actual, real characters.

if you think about tigh and ellen it makes a good eternal love story.

especially since he killed her not too too long before finding out that they were both ancient cylons that were destined to be together for thousands of years.

its a very poignant story for a couple who were so thoroughly unlikeable.

It is a very good story and it's in sharp contrast to how detestable they were as "humans". But the character still wasn't developed nearly enough for people to really care about her. She was a satellite character, brought in whenever they wanted to drive Tigh to drinking again. She hardly had any character advancement of her own.

It is a very good story and it's in sharp contrast to how detestable they were as "humans". But the character still wasn't developed nearly enough for people to really care about her. She was a satellite character, brought in whenever they wanted to drive Tigh to drinking again. She hardly had any character advancement of her own.
for sure.

not that i didnt feel the same way about the presidential aide who is one of the final 5.

but instead of being another "oh gee that guy is a secret cylon?" moment it opens up new questions and problems. you immediately have to wonder what problems are generated by her being dead. is she already reincarnated somewhere? is she reborn as a baby, a young adult, the middle aged woman that she was? when her new self is found (if there is a reincarnation of her) how weird is that relationship with tigh going to be? will she know she is a cylon? will she be pissed at that being killed by her husband thing?

it has many more plot possibilities.

I think the final episode of the Galactica series will be the TV equivalent of lining all the fans up and kicking them in the genitals.

Thats why we wear genitalia-protecting cups while watching Battlestar Galactica.

Thats why we wear genitalia-protecting cups while watching Battlestar Galactica.

It won't help.

So I think Kara Thrace is a Cylon, or at LEAST, a hybrid.

"But Neo B, don't be retarded. We've accounted for the 12 Cylon models."

12 yes, but there are at least 13. Remember back when they were first discussing the possibility of boxing D'Anna? One of the Number Sixes commented about how it had been done once before, to a model that was inherently flawed and unstable.

Can anyone think of a more unstable Sci Fi character than Kara "Starbuck" Thrace?

"Neo B, show me one thing that makes her a Cylon and not just a wacko."

Well, she resurrected from the dead. Not too easy a task for humans, but commonplace among Cylons.

"What else? That can be explained..."

Well how about the visions she had? So far, no other character in Battlestar who isn't a Cylon has had them without being under the influence of Comalla extract or Cylon tinkering. She accurately saw the damaged Base Ship near the red gas planet after the Cylon Civil War broke out, and she's had visions of the storm in the gas giant where she "dies" all her life.

"Well she has a mom though, don't forget."

True, but mom was always saying that little Kara had a destiny, and was constantly browbeating her for not living up to expectations. Did mom adopt a Cylon? Or is it possible that dad was one?

"Meh. Got anything else?"

Starbuck appears to have some kind of homing beacon in her head. She KNEW which way Earth was, at first, and it weakened with distance. Sounds very un-human to me.

"But... if the Number Sixes knew about the previously boxed model, why didn't Caprica Six recognize Starbuck during the catfight in the Museum in Caprica City?"

Maybe she had never met a Starbuck model, or maybe she was programmed to forget, as all of the 7 were regarding the Final Five. Cylons have often interacted with Final Five models without any unusual reactions, even though it's known that they, at one time at least, knew who they all were.

Consider the following miscellaneous tidbits:

Leoben seems to know something, doesn't he? He's known since a few episodes into Season One that Kara Thrace was somehow special, and that she had a destiny.

When Starbuck was captured on Caprica, unlike the human women, she was never hooked up to the birthing machines. She had some kind of surgery, but to this day we don't know what that little scar on her abdomen means. Were the Cylons experimenting with her, perhaps knowing or suspecting what she was?

Funny how Cylon women seem to be universally promiscuous. Number Sixes have bagged Baltar, Admiral Cain, Colonel Tigh, D'Anna Biers and one damn near got Commander Adama. The Sharon models nailed Cavil, Tirol, Helo and apparently Gaeta. We know Ellen Tigh made her rounds in the Colonial Fleet, shagging everybody she could. D'anna likes 3 ways with Six and Baltar. Starbuck fits that pattern well.

no matter what she was before she cant be human now. humans dont come back from the dead.

Of course she's human. You're just going to have to accept that the definitions of "human" and "cylon" within the show are about to converge.

Very possible. We've already seen how quickly Cylon Centurion type models become rebellious once they are given independent thought. Natalie (A Number 6) has already seen this when she ordered a Centurion to take some prisoners away, and it looked at her almost as if it were thinking "Who the hell do you think you are?" and she only got it to respond after she said "Please?"

Well wouldn't you be very rebellious if you were basicly a slave and you have a machine gun built in to your wrist?

Well wouldn't you be very rebellious if you were basicly a slave and you have a machine gun built in to your wrist?

Hellz yeah. And don't forget the sweet red eye that makes me look like KITT.

Hellz yeah. And don't forget the sweet red eye that makes me look like KITT.

speaking of which...
around the 40 minute mark of this (http://www.hulu.com/watch/13335/galactica-1980-the-night-the-cylons-landed-part-1) shows the secret origin of kitt

Well that episode kinda sucked. Previews for next week look better.

That episode was good....I really hate Gaeta especially after seeing the previews for next week. Maybe the cylons will send some centurions to help out Adama.

So what did "You are the Harbinger of Death, Kara Thrace. You will lead them all to their end." mean? It was always scary since it IMPLIED she would lead them to disaster and death. But "their end" is pretty ambiguous and seems like now it could mean the end of the 13th tribe or whatever.

Maybe the cylons will send some centurions to help out Adama.

That's just asking for revolution.

That's just asking for revolution.


Or Adama could orate an emotional speech with the words "Roll the hard six" somewhere in it, which would reunite the fleet, moving bagpipe music will be played, and the fleet will move on to find another home.

Or Adama could orate an emotional speech with the words "Roll the hard six" somewhere in it, which would reunite the fleet, moving bagpipe music will be played, and the fleet will move on to find another home.

Yeah, no.

i cant say that i blame the civilian fleet for telling adama and the cylons to stick it.

i dont think id be too damned happy about the idea of making any kind of alliance with those who killed everyone i know.

i cant say that i blame the civilian fleet for telling adama and the cylons to stick it.

True, but then a captain of a civilian ship(I think) had two marines killed and took the fuel of the entire ship.

Also, I can't say I blame the cylons for wanting to exterminate the race that built them to be slaves.

True, but then a captain of a civilian ship(I think) had two marines killed and took the fuel of the entire ship.

Also, I can't say I blame the cylons for wanting to exterminate the race that built them to be slaves.
yeah that fuel thing is a big problem. the fleet cant let them go.

the cylons didnt need to exterminate humanity. they were living apart from them as it was. well except for those that were there to facilitate the attacks. and whatever the final 5 were doing...

yeah that fuel thing is a big problem. the fleet cant let them go.

the cylons didnt need to exterminate humanity. they were living apart from them as it was. well except for those that were there to facilitate the attacks. and whatever the final 5 were doing...

Except, of course, that this whole muddle is supposed to be some sort of recurring story that they have to continue to relive until they get it right. Hence D'Anna's comment about getting "off this merry-go-round."

the cylons didnt need to exterminate humanity. they were living apart from them as it was. ...

True, and a permanent alliance with the Cylon models 6,8,2, the only 3, and the final five is probably the best way to find peace between the two groups as well a survive against Boomer and models 1, 4, and 5. Necessity and rational thought probably didn't factor too much in the making of either decision.

those that were there to facilitate the attacks. and whatever the final 5 were doing...
Except, of course, that this whole muddle is supposed to be some sort of recurring story that they have to continue to relive until they get it right. Hence D'Anna's comment about getting "off this merry-go-round."

I thought the cycle was supposed to repeat over and over ad infinitum. "This has all happened before and will happen again." Where is there mention that the cycle will stop?

True, and a permanent alliance with the Cylon models 6,8,2, the only 3, and the final five is probably the best way to find peace between the two groups as well a survive against Boomer and models 1, 4, and 5. Necessity and rational thought probably didn't factor too much in the making of either decision.



I thought the cycle was supposed to repeat over and over ad infinitum. "This has all happened before and will happen again." Where is there mention that the cycle will stop?

No mention was made. I'm guilty of making an assumption.

Well, it is pretty shitty to repeat the near extinction of "humanity" over, and over and over and over and over and over.....

yes but it seems to be a pretty long cycle, eh? more than 2000 years.

and the current cylons shouldnt have been part of it, only the final 5 existed the last time.

so what merry-go-round is d'anna getting off of? she hasnt been on it for very long.

Slightly tired of the "new" old Roslyn coming back.

Ok ready for this one? This will blow your mind.

There is an earth hub, but it was made by humans to preserve the consciousness of humanity. Humans learned how to transfer their own consciousness to machines or "cylons" when they died to preserve their own immortality. The hub is still active and its trying to draw the other humans home so they can preserve their consciousness for immortality as well.

Remember the flashback when Ellen said to Saul in the water,its ok its all been taken care of we will be reborn again ? She was talking about the fact that despite of the nuclear holocaust it was ok because humanity had already been downloaded into the hub and despite the devastation of Earth they were still saved.

The Final 5 are simply human/cylon scouts from the human hub to guide and bring them home or because maybe the hub wants rescue and someplace to "download" to.

And the cylons found dead on the planets are really humans , sort of.

And this would also explain Starbuck

But why hub didnt contact Galactica once they got there is unknown.

yes but it seems to be a pretty long cycle, eh? more than 2000 years.

and the current cylons shouldnt have been part of it, only the final 5 existed the last time.

so what merry-go-round is d'anna getting off of? she hasnt been on it for very long.

I assumed the merry-go-round had more to do with human/cylon conflict. First the cylons and humans lived in peace then the cylons revolted and there was war. Then humans and cylons lived in peace apart from one another , then the cylons killed the vast majority of humans. Then the two lived in peace(kinda sorta, ok not really) on New Caprica, then the humans revolted with the help of the fleet. Then the alliance came about until D'anna came back and there was a stand-off, until Kara found the coordinates to Earth and the alliance was back on. Now the alliance is fragile given that Earth is a radioactive wasteland instead of some kind of promised land. D'anna was never optimistic about human/cylon coexistence, as I recall.

Ok ready for this one? This will blow your mind.

There is an earth hub, but it was made by humans to preserve the consciousness of humanity. Humans learned how to transfer their own consciousness to machines or "cylons" when they died to preserve their own immortality. The hub is still active and its trying to draw the other humans home so they can preserve their consciousness for immortality as well.

Remember the flashback when Ellen said to Saul in the water,its ok its all been taken care of we will be reborn again ? She was talking about the fact that despite of the nuclear holocaust it was ok because humanity had already been downloaded into the hub and despite the devastation of Earth they were still saved.

The Final 5 are simply human/cylon scouts from the human hub to guide and bring them home or because maybe the hub wants rescue and someplace to "download" to.

And the cylons found dead on the planets are really humans , sort of.

And this would also explain Starbuck

But why hub didnt contact Galactica once they got there is unknown.
good theory!

I assumed the merry-go-round had more to do with human/cylon conflict. First the cylons and humans lived in peace then the cylons revolted and there was war. Then humans and cylons lived in peace apart from one another , then the cylons killed the vast majority of humans. Then the two lived in peace(kinda sorta, ok not really) on New Caprica, then the humans revolted with the help of the fleet. Then the alliance came about until D'anna came back and there was a stand-off, until Kara found the coordinates to Earth and the alliance was back on. Now the alliance is fragile given that Earth is a radioactive wasteland instead of some kind of promised land. D'anna was never optimistic about human/cylon coexistence, as I recall.
that makes d'anna a bit of a wimp doesnt it?

that makes d'anna a bit of a wimp doesnt it?

More like tired. The Cylons are in a civil war, her entire model died, Earth is no promised land, conflict seems fated to happen over and over and over.

More like tired. The Cylons are in a civil war, her entire model died, Earth is no promised land, conflict seems fated to happen over and over and over.
sounds like the human condition.

shouldnt cylons be tougher than that?

i think there is some nother big thing going on that she isnt into. otherwise her religion might keep her going.

sounds like the human condition.

shouldnt cylons be tougher than that?

According to the Battle Star wiki Cylons "are susceptible to the same emotional traumas and joys that their human counterparts are, as they cannot "turn off" their ability to feel pain or other emotions (Escape Velocity), further proving that personalities are a realistic part of their psyche. A case in point is a copy of Number Six, known as Gina Inviere, who is physically and sexually assaulted repeatedly by the crew of Pegasus. These repeated assaults lead to Inviere's near-catatonic state at the time Pegasus discovers the Fleet (Pegasus)." So I assume they shouldn't be tougher, psychologically, than humans.

Cylons are humans. Humans are Cylons. The only thing that differentiates them is their ability to ressurect. Now that they cannot, they're the same species. They can even interbreed.

Cylons are humans. Humans are Cylons. The only thing that differentiates them is their ability to ressurect. Now that they cannot, they're the same species. They can even interbreed.

They need "love" to breed, at least humans and the non-final five do.

True, but then a captain of a civilian ship(I think) had two marines killed and took the fuel of the entire ship.

Also, I can't say I blame the cylons for wanting to exterminate the race that built them to be slaves.

Ok ready for this one? This will blow your mind.

There is an earth hub, but it was made by humans to preserve the consciousness of humanity. Humans learned how to transfer their own consciousness to machines or "cylons" when they died to preserve their own immortality. The hub is still active and its trying to draw the other humans home so they can preserve their consciousness for immortality as well.

Remember the flashback when Ellen said to Saul in the water,its ok its all been taken care of we will be reborn again ? She was talking about the fact that despite of the nuclear holocaust it was ok because humanity had already been downloaded into the hub and despite the devastation of Earth they were still saved.

The Final 5 are simply human/cylon scouts from the human hub to guide and bring them home or because maybe the hub wants rescue and someplace to "download" to.

And the cylons found dead on the planets are really humans , sort of.

And this would also explain Starbuck

But why hub didnt contact Galactica once they got there is unknown.

Good theory.

My questions would then be:

-Why was Starbuck the only one to resurrect in this way? Plenty have died since then.

-What happened to all the other models that were populating the Earth?

And my big question from that last episode is:

Why in the frak is that tilium fuel ship NOT a military asset and thus crewed by colonial military personnel??? Why is it still under the control of civilians?

And my big question from that last episode is:

Why in the frak is that tilium fuel ship NOT a military asset and thus crewed by colonial military personnel??? Why is it still under the control of civilians?
Because the military junta of Adama and Roslin can only go so far.

And my big question from that last episode is:

Why in the frak is that tilium fuel ship NOT a military asset and thus crewed by colonial military personnel??? Why is it still under the control of civilians?

I would say several reasons.

1. It was never a military asset before the fall of the 12 Colonies. Traditions die hard.

2. It already has a crew - why waste good, and rapidly dwindling supply of officers and military crew doing the jobs of miners - and what would the miners do?

Most importantly,

3. Political fallout. Seizing control of the ship at any point might have started this whole incident earlier, and they certainly could never have afforded the crisis back when they were engaged with/fleeing from the Cylons.

Good theory.

My questions would then be:

-Why was Starbuck the only one to resurrect in this way? Plenty have died since then.

-What happened to all the other models that were populating the Earth?

Perhaps the range of the hub is Earth surface? I dont think anyone from Galactica died on Earths surface, it was pretty much just search parties then they packed it up and left. Or alternatively, maybe the hub was located in the gas giant planet and thats why she got resurrected.

I suspect the remaining models are in a suspended state much like 6 was, waiting for the proper time, place and resources to be redownloaded. The Final 5 models are probably the hubs caretakers and decision makers.

Because the military junta of Adama and Roslin can only go so far.

I would say several reasons.

1. It was never a military asset before the fall of the 12 Colonies. Traditions die hard.

2. It already has a crew - why waste good, and rapidly dwindling supply of officers and military crew doing the jobs of miners - and what would the miners do?

Most importantly,

3. Political fallout. Seizing control of the ship at any point might have started this whole incident earlier, and they certainly could never have afforded the crisis back when they were engaged with/fleeing from the Cylons.

See I agree with those ideas, but I don't think it would have prevented military seizure of the ship. This is especially true if spun the right way. For example Roslin could have done something like this:

"I have issued an executive order placing the Tilium ship under Military control. This was done in order to keep it secure, as the fuel it contains and processes is not only critical for military needs, but also for the fleet in general. This resource is now being guarded by colonial officers and personnel, and will continue to operate as before, guaranteeing fuel deliveries to all colonial ships."

I mean, the ship itself is a shithole anyway, I don't think anybody would have relished living on it enough to be miffed if they were replaced by colonial military technicians and officers. Furthermore, the workers themselves could have been retained under contract or impressed into military service.

There's already a precedent for this. Galactica has several crewmembers who were originally pressed into service by Admiral Cain.

Perhaps the range of the hub is Earth surface? I dont think anyone from Galactica died on Earths surface, it was pretty much just search parties then they packed it up and left. Or alternatively, maybe the hub was located in the gas giant planet and thats why she got resurrected.

I suspect the remaining models are in a suspended state much like 6 was, waiting for the proper time, place and resources to be redownloaded. The Final 5 models are probably the hubs caretakers and decision makers.

It will be interesting to see how close your theory gets to the actual revealed story.

Has anybody heard anything about a 2 hour movie that will be released after the series ends? It's apparently going to take place after the end of the series, and isn't directly related to the Caprica series.

No, the movie is called The Plan and retells the genocide of humanity from a Cylon perspective.

EDIT: Some things to clear up:

1. We don't see the D'Anna model again, not even in The Plan. Lucy Lawless has pulled out from the series, so unless they recast (which I don't see happening this late in the series) she's gone. That probably explains her less than logical decision to stay on Earth - it was a quick writeoff.

2. This IS Earth. RDM has stated as such in many interviews. It would also be bad writing to have a fake Earth.

3. The Earth Cylons are all dead, sans the Final Five. This is Galactica - there will be no happy ending, no ressurection of humanity. Instead, expect the unification of Cylons and Humanity.

4. I personally do think that Starbuck was ressurected, and I'm pretty sure that this will be explained as the Colonial "humans" actually being descendants of the Earth Cylons.

No, the movie is called The Plan and retells the genocide of humanity from a Cylon perspective.

Yes that's right... but isn't it like a flashback bracketed from the present?

Yes that's right... but isn't it like a flashback bracketed from the present?

Sort of, although all "present day" scenes are apparently clips from the TV series. All new filming is set prior to the genocide of humanity.

Sort of, although all "present day" scenes are apparently clips from the TV series. All new filming is set prior to the genocide of humanity.

Gotcha.

Well so far we're no closer to understanding the true nature of the Final Five, nor are we closer to understanding what the frak is up with Starbuck...

But I see some interesting patterns emerging and they kinda scare me...

Notice how all of the major characters are reverting to their earlier (arguably more ideal) selves?

-Lee Adama filled the role of a warrior as he and Starbuck took up arms in defense of the Galactica.
-Starbuck has once again become a badass.
-Tigh and William Adama are close friends again.
-Roslin has resumed her leadership role.
-Baltar is once again a functional member of the "good guys" team.
-Galen Tyrol used his knowledge of Galactica to help.
"Good to see you again." -William Adama

-Anders was playing Pyramid by himself just before he was captured.
-Helo is being persecuted for being a "Cylon lover"
-Tom Zarek is actively trying to take over the Government
-Lee and Tigh have resumed their mutual dislike
-Note that an Eight (Sharon) model was piloting the rescue Raptor

We are also reminded of some of the Pegasus crew's presence... The tech, murdered by Zarek, and the one threatening to rape Athena in retaliation for Helo's killing of the Pegasus officers who tried to do the same thing before.

I like that the characters are being themselves... Maybe this is who they are when everything around them goes to hell and they have to look to their own internal strengths to get through it, as they did before when the Cylons initially attacked.

This could also be a portent of doom for some...

I hope to the lords of kobol, that what I heard, and saw in the previews for the next episode is not true. I hope Gaeta gets punched in the chest by William Adama, while Tigh punches his face, and...............yeah i'm thoroughly displeased with Gaeta. Zarek should be slapped a couple times as well.

Also, if Roslin uses the cylon basestar to attack Galactica, wouldn't that create more resentment in the fleet, thus sealing the fate of the "loyalists" to be exiled with the cylons, or be slaughtered by Galactica's superior weaponry and protection?

I hope to the lords of kobol, that what I heard, and saw in the previews for the next episode is not true. I hope Gaeta gets punched in the chest by William Adama, while Tigh punches his face, and...............yeah i'm thoroughly displeased with Gaeta. Zarek should be slapped a couple times as well.

Yeah if what I saw in those previews means what it seems to at face value, I'm going to be thoroughly pissed at SciFi for giving so much away. From the end of the next episode to the start of the following, I'll not watch one single second of SciFi so that I won't see any previews.


Also, if Roslin uses the cylon basestar to attack Galactica, wouldn't that create more resentment in the fleet, thus sealing the fate of the "loyalists" to be exiled with the cylons, or be slaughtered by Galactica's superior weaponry and protection?

Which is exactly the problem. That means Galactica must be retaken from the inside.

Oh. My. Gods.

That was a frackin awesome episode!

Gaeta: Tell your men to stand down, Admiral.
Tigh: You sunuvabiiiitch.

When Starbuck pulled out the dual-wielding pistols and shot that guy and was all "Who's next? I can do this all day!" I wet myself.

Gaeta's crossed a moral event horizon... he hasn't shot the dog yet, but things are not looking good for him. He's lied to everyone, overthrown the good guys... and he has a physical disability. Definite signs that while he might get redeemed enough so that we feel sorta bad when he dies, he's not going to rejoin the good guy crew.

Agreed. Gaeta has thrown in his lot and he's going to have to ride this one all the way in.

Interestingly, a rift does seem to be developing between Gaeta and Zarek. Zarek is much more ruthless and Gaeta still has enough of a conscience not to want to kill anybody. It will be interesting to see where that goes.

...although that conscience does seem to be eroding. At the end of the episode he does order the viper to engage the raptor... not even knowing who is aboard.

When Starbuck pulled out the dual-wielding pistols and shot that guy and was all "Who's next? I can do this all day!" I wet myself.

Gaeta's crossed a moral event horizon... he hasn't shot the dog yet, but things are not looking good for him. He's lied to everyone, overthrown the good guys... and he has a physical disability. Definite signs that while he might get redeemed enough so that we feel sorta bad when he dies, he's not going to rejoin the good guy crew.

You mean raped the dog. And it's the same thing.

They're definitely maintaining the drama, which is a good thing. But we've seen next to nothing regarding most of the plot's loose ends in the last three episodes. For example I they're completely avoiding showing anything from Baltar's POV, which makes me doubt that they'll resolve the mystery surrounding him.

Yeah they're definitely keeping things moving, but I think this is part of tying up some of the subplots that have been around for a LONG time. I mean, consider Tom Zarek. Despite his lofty Government ascension did anyone ever really think this guy had become one of the good guys? This is a character that has to have some resolution, and I think now that he's made his move, that time is now.

It occurs to me that this whole story, from beginning to end, but particularly the end, has the feel of some kind of fever-dream.

So someone obscure wakes up in a sweat and realizes it's a dream, and hears the air raid sirens ...

If it's "but it was all a dream!" there will be much vomiting.

If that happens Ron Moore will be hunted by a mob with pitchforks and torches.

Stuff always gets wrapped up too neatly at the end of the episode like that. Looks like we are finally back on track from this rebellion detour next week and will get some more answers to the whole cylon thing.

What the hell are Gaeta and Baltar?

Crazy.

And they should have shot Zarek years ago.

What the hell are Gaeta and Baltar?
stupid men who do the wrong thing for what seems to them to be good intentions but in reality are just self preservation.

stupid men who do the wrong thing for what seems to them to be good intentions but in reality are just self preservation.

They both seem to be more aware of events than they should be, given their involvement. Their conversation at the end of this episode hinted at Gaeta being something special, and we've known for a while that Baltar was something different because of all the opera house dreams.

They both seem to be more aware of events than they should be, given their involvement. Their conversation at the end of this episode hinted at Gaeta being something special, and we've known for a while that Baltar was something different because of all the opera house dreams.
dunno.

did you watch the webisodes that led up to the new season?

They both seem to be more aware of events than they should be, given their involvement. Their conversation at the end of this episode hinted at Gaeta being something special, and we've known for a while that Baltar was something different because of all the opera house dreams.

Gaeta was a protege to Baltar for a little while, he had a bit of a hero worship thing going on in the first season. That lead to Gaeta being Baltar's assistant on New Caprica. Even though they ultimately were at odds there is a bond. I think Gaeta's awareness is in part to his fly on the wall status. He's always 'there' when anything happens even though no one really acknowledges him other than a functionary. Which is why he was able to orchestrate the coup, he's just over looked.

Well, I wasn't at all sorry to see Zarek get his just desserts. Not so much with Gaeta either. Surprised Tigh didn't die.

Well according to the previews for next week,we now know for a fact there is another Hub because Helen comes back and we saw her in the hub bathtub. Stage one of my prediction is complete ;)

Well according to the previews for next week,we now know for a fact there is another Hub because Helen comes back and we saw her in the hub bathtub. Stage one of my prediction is complete ;)

She died 18 months ago, on New Caprica. If ressurection is instant (as it seems to be) she ressurected before the hubs were destroyed - presumably within Cavil's cylon fleet.

She died 18 months ago, on New Caprica. If ressurection is instant (as it seems to be) she ressurected before the hubs were destroyed - presumably within Cavil's cylon fleet.

Yea, I figure she's either going to reunite the two Cylon factions, or lead the the Cylons in their battle against the rebel factions. Judging solely by the fact that I think she looked pissed off in the preview, I think she's going to be all murder-happy.

They both seem to be more aware of events than they should be, given their involvement. Their conversation at the end of this episode hinted at Gaeta being something special, and we've known for a while that Baltar was something different because of all the opera house dreams.
I think Gaeta's "I hope people will realize eventually who I am" just meant that he hopes they'll realize he's not a bad guy out to overthrow Adama and grasp power but was genuinely concerned for the safety of the fleet and convinced Adama was getting played by the treacherous cylons.

In the last episode, when Baltar made that short call to Gaeta before leaving Galactica, he said "Remember, I know your secret, Felix" or something to that effect. I had to read up on the internet b/c I had no idea what he meant but turns out there was a webisode (never seen one of those) that showed how Felix, back on New Caprica, had a thing going on with an 8 and regularly gave her the lists of people supposed to be killed because she said she would help save them - instead she made sure they'd be killed.* So basically he fell for a cylon and she betrayed him and made him indirectly and unwittingly "guilty" of the death of all these people.

Based on that, his actions regarding the uprising make much more sense than based on what we saw in the actual TV episodes, which didn't give him much of a motive of any kind, I thought.


*see also Gaeta's wiki entry: In the episode "Taking a Break from All Your Worries", Gaeta offers to interrogate Baltar for Adama after Baltar's return to Galactica. Baltar discovers a camera in his cell and starts to provoke Gaeta, revealing that he knows a secret about Gaeta. After Baltar whispers the "secret" inaudibly in Gaeta's ear, Gaeta stabs Baltar in the neck with a pen and attempts to strangle him before being restrained by Adama. (It is later revealed in the 2009 "The Face of the Enemy" webisodes that Baltar was aware of Gaeta's secret relationship with a duplicitous copy of Sharon Valerii on New Caprica, which lead to the death of numerous civilians. Baltar's whisper was revealed to be, "I know what your Eight did!")

She died 18 months ago, on New Caprica. If ressurection is instant (as it seems to be) she ressurected before the hubs were destroyed - presumably within Cavil's cylon fleet.

I doubt it was instant. The reason why the cylons could instantly resurrect was because they had large numbers of generic bodies for each model. Ellen's body would have to be custom made, at least if she is woke up in the Cylon fleet instead of some surviving final five hub. In any case her consciousness could have been boxed for months.

I doubt it was instant. The reason why the cylons could instantly resurrect was because they had large numbers of generic bodies for each model. Ellen's body would have to be custom made, at least if she is woke up in the Cylon fleet instead of some surviving final five hub. In any case her consciousness could have been boxed for months.

That's true. In the preview for next week's episode there was a centurion watching her ressurect, and I dunno, it looked slightly different from how I remember them. Maybe an Earth centurion like the one they found digging on Earth?

Yeah, I was thinking is that Centurion like the other ones we've seen or different. I dunno.

If it's "but it was all a dream!" there will be much vomiting.
SPOILER ALERT

In the final episode, Dirk Benedict will wake up in bed next to Laurette Spang, and tell her of his dream. Spang tells Benedict that he shouldn't eat Virgon food before going to bed, and he replies that she should wear more sweaters.

SPOILER ALERT

In the final episode, Dirk Benedict will wake up in bed next to Laurette Spang, and tell her of his dream. Spang tells Benedict that he shouldn't eat Virgon food before going to bed, and he replies that she should wear more sweaters.

Quality.

The Cylon FTL system will prove somehow to involve, or cause, time travel. Battlestar Galactica itself will find a new planet and, weakened by the structural damage Tyrol spotted, it will crash or be destroyed. The survivors, human and cylon, will live on the new planet. And call it Earth.

All this has happened before, and will happen again.

The Cylon FTL system will prove somehow to involve, or cause, time travel. Battlestar Galactica itself will find a new planet and, weakened by the structural damage Tyrol spotted, it will crash or be destroyed. The survivors, human and cylon, will live on the new planet. And call it Earth.

All this has happened before, and will happen again.

A bit of predestination paradox; I like it.

how do they think this shit up?http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/thumb/f/fa/Smoke_Gets_In_Your_Eyes.JPG/300px-Smoke_Gets_In_Your_Eyes.JPG
<.<
>.>

I think Gaeta's "I hope people will realize eventually who I am" just meant that he hopes they'll realize he's not a bad guy out to overthrow Adama and grasp power but was genuinely concerned for the safety of the fleet and convinced Adama was getting played by the treacherous cylons.

In the last episode, when Baltar made that short call to Gaeta before leaving Galactica, he said "Remember, I know your secret, Felix" or something to that effect. I had to read up on the internet b/c I had no idea what he meant but turns out there was a webisode (never seen one of those) that showed how Felix, back on New Caprica, had a thing going on with an 8 and regularly gave her the lists of people supposed to be killed because she said she would help save them - instead she made sure they'd be killed.* So basically he fell for a cylon and she betrayed him and made him indirectly and unwittingly "guilty" of the death of all these people.

Based on that, his actions regarding the uprising make much more sense than based on what we saw in the actual TV episodes, which didn't give him much of a motive of any kind, I thought.


*see also Gaeta's wiki entry:

There are no throwaway lines in BSG. If Gaeta said "I hope people will realize eventually who I am" it meant more than, "Gee, I'm really a good guy who just wanted to do what's best." I figure he's someone's long-lost, never acknowledged, illegitimate son. Or, maybe he's a hitherto unknown Cylon/human hybrid who somehow ended up in the Colonies and was raised by humans. Or, maybe, he's the re-imagined BSG version of those annoying angel things from the original and has gone horribly wrong.

The Cylon FTL system will prove somehow to involve, or cause, time travel. Battlestar Galactica itself will find a new planet and, weakened by the structural damage Tyrol spotted, it will crash or be destroyed. The survivors, human and cylon, will live on the new planet. And call it Earth.

All this has happened before, and will happen again.You have a pretty good angle on it, it would appear.
JUST. KEEP. BRANNON. BRAGA. THE. FUCK. OUT. OF. IT.
(he's already in this years' 24)

Frak the fraking frakers!

Quality.Yeah, that poster has some potential, there.

I think Gaeta's "I hope people will realize eventually who I am" just meant that he hopes they'll realize he's not a bad guy out to overthrow Adama and grasp power but was genuinely concerned for the safety of the fleet and convinced Adama was getting played by the treacherous cylons.

In the last episode, when Baltar made that short call to Gaeta before leaving Galactica, he said "Remember, I know your secret, Felix" or something to that effect. I had to read up on the internet b/c I had no idea what he meant but turns out there was a webisode (never seen one of those) that showed how Felix, back on New Caprica, had a thing going on with an 8 and regularly gave her the lists of people supposed to be killed because she said she would help save them - instead she made sure they'd be killed.* So basically he fell for a cylon and she betrayed him and made him indirectly and unwittingly "guilty" of the death of all these people.

Based on that, his actions regarding the uprising make much more sense than based on what we saw in the actual TV episodes, which didn't give him much of a motive of any kind, I thought.


*see also Gaeta's wiki entry:I be damned if that ain't hot nerdy talk.
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/cool29.gif

Anybody else pick up the irony of Richard Hatch's character being executed in a Viper launch tube?

So yeah... apparently Ellen resurrects... but if it's using a "standard" Cylon facility then that would have to have been a flashback to prior to the destruction of the rez hub. In fact, it may well go all the way back to the point when the colonials fled New Caprica, just after she died.

http://www.ldsknights.org/images/cylonanalysis.JPG

So yah... I made this little analysis image. It looks like the Cylon that appears to be overseeing Ellen's resurrection is of the same model that we're used to (The plate that goes across the shoulders is slightly different, but nothing else significant).

Clearly the Earth Cylon helmet is drastically different from either of the Centurion types we've seen before. It would appear that Ellen will somehow be resurrecting using facilities normally used by the Significant Seven. Therefore, we must be seeing some sort of flashback.

...or Cavil's Cylons have rebuilt some sort of replacement resurrection hub.

Which leads me to wonder:

Was Ellen SUPPOSED to resurrect there? What if that Centurion is looking down and thinking "WTF?"

And here's a question... why COULDN'T the cylons build a replacement hub. Are the facilities or knowledge not available to them? Did someone else build it for them in the first place?

Anybody else pick up the irony of Richard Hatch's character being executed in a Viper launch tube?

So yeah... apparently Ellen resurrects... but if it's using a "standard" Cylon facility then that would have to have been a flashback to prior to the destruction of the rez hub. In fact, it may well go all the way back to the point when the colonials fled New Caprica, just after she died.

http://www.ldsknights.org/images/cylonanalysis.JPG

So yah... I made this little analysis image. It looks like the Cylon that appears to be overseeing Ellen's resurrection is of the same model that we're used to (The plate that goes across the shoulders is slightly different, but nothing else significant).

Clearly the Earth Cylon helmet is drastically different from either of the Centurion types we've seen before. It would appear that Ellen will somehow be resurrecting using facilities normally used by the Significant Seven. Therefore, we must be seeing some sort of flashback.

...or Cavil's Cylons have rebuilt some sort of replacement resurrection hub.

Which leads me to wonder:

Was Ellen SUPPOSED to resurrect there? What if that Centurion is looking down and thinking "WTF?"

And here's a question... why COULDN'T the cylons build a replacement hub. Are the facilities or knowledge not available to them? Did someone else build it for them in the first place?

I think the issue was one of time involved. They could rebuild one, but it's such a massive, advanced structure that it would take them an immense amount of time and resources to do so.

Damn, I was hoping that the centurion overlooking her regeneration was one of the Earth ones. Pity, I guess that means she'll be ressurecting in a flashback. This is also supported by the preview specifically mentioning "18 months ago" - why would they mention that fact unless it was important?

I guess that means Ellen's been with the Cylons (presumably Cavil's fleet) for quite some time.

EDIT: It's also worth noting that the depiction of centurions hasn't been consistent, they've changed appearance at least once iirc.

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Centurion_profile_(front)_II.jpg is the original, http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Centurion_retcon.jpg is the new version as of "Faith".

So there is another Cylon, Daniel. I suspect that at least one Daniel is still active and possibly in the fleet. Cylon is supposed to be a sensitive, artistic model who corrupted and boxed by Cavil. Given what we know, the DNA was corrupted, the Daniel that Ellen knew might not look anything like the old model. Now because this model has been boxed, if there were any survivor, they would be very old and there would no other members of that line active, so for all purposes they are as unique looking and acting as any human.

1. Someone Ellen might not recognize
2. Someone with artistic talent
3. Someone who is possibly emotionally sensitive.

Do not click below if you don't want my theory.

I think it is Admiral Adama, he is older, is obviously artistic considering that he built that model ship and is very emotionaly sensitive in private.

Clearly the Earth Cylon helmet is drastically different from either of the Centurion types we've seen before. It would appear that Ellen will somehow be resurrecting using facilities normally used by the Significant Seven. Therefore, we must be seeing some sort of flashback.
If you watched the pilot, you would have noticed that the old-style sentry style was found in a glass case back in the building to house the Galactica. Or somewhere anyway, but I remember seeing one.

What's this show actually about?

What's this show actually about?

Polytheistic humans being hunted by monotheistic "machine" like beings basicly ;)

Do not click below if you don't want my theory.

I think it is Admiral Adama, he is older, is obviously artistic considering that he built that model ship and is very emotionaly sensitive in private.
Interesting theory, but...

Adama's memories -- of his wife, his Uncle's farm, etc. -- would have to be implanted, and much of them have been confirmed by Lee.


What's this show actually about?
Proving to the Star Trek creators that they're short-sighted idiots.

If you want my theory you can just keep reading because since it say SPOILERS in the OP i can assume you dont care about peoples theories being secret so i wont show off my code skills and make you click stuff.

So there is another Cylon, Daniel. I suspect that at least one Daniel is still active and possibly in the fleet.

or starbuck's long-lost dad

or starbuck's long-lost dad

or Felix Gaeta.

If you watched the pilot, you would have noticed that the old-style sentry style was found in a glass case back in the building to house the Galactica. Or somewhere anyway, but I remember seeing one.

That was the Centurion from the first Cylon War, and NOT the same as the Earth type Centurion. (Also on display there were the troop transport, old Cylon Raider, and the Even-older-than-a-MkII-Viper from the old series.)

or starbuck's long-lost dad

This is what I think. I'm modifying my old "Final Cylon is Starbuck's Mom" to Daniel is Starbuck's Dad.

Think about it:

-Daniel is a #7 and thus one of the "new generation" of skinjobs. That means he'd have been generated after the first Cylon War. Given that this was 40 years ago, that's plenty of time to have created a model, already fully grown, who would be able to father a child with a human. (We haven't seen a male Cylon impregnate a female human yet, but given that it has happened the other way around and a male Earth Cylon has impregnated a Caprica Cylon, it seems reasonable to assume this is possible.)

-Daniel is described as having been artistic. Kara Thrace is also very artistic. In a first season episode at one point Kara talks about her dad when she and Helo are hiding out at her old apartment. I'll need to watch the episode again, but her dad seems to have been gone for some time, as she now had his old truck, presumably an inheritance.

-Kara's mom knew she had a special destiny. Having a Cylon husband would explain how she might know this.

-Kara "lit up" like the other Cylons when Anders was looking at them. That means she has something in common with them yet, she was tested and found to not be a Cylon. A Hybrid might explain these events.

-Kara resurrected. How? Why? Having a Cylon father might explain this. If there's still an unboxed Daniel out there, he may have arranged for her to be protected in this way. This, of course, assumes that the resurrection technology works on hybrids as well as on full blood Cylons.

*********************
A co-worker of mine is advancing the theory that Starbuck was a human at first, but is a Cylon now. His basis:

-Kara was captured by the Cylons on Caprica and treated for her gunshot wound. While she was there, some other unknown procedure was performed on her leaving an incision on her abdomen. My co-worker contends that this was how the Cylons created a template for her to resurrect later as an actual Cylon.

-We now know that Cylon models in the new generation are based on actual people (John Cavil is based on Ellen Tigh's dad)

The flaw with that, as I see it, is that she was tested negative for Cylon-ness AFTER she came back.

Apparently, Daniel is also the name of Eric Stoltz' character for the new series Caprica, which takes place 50 years before the events of the BSG miniseries. A connection there? Hmmmmmmmmm............

-Kara resurrected. How? Why? Having a Cylon father might explain this. If there's still an unboxed Daniel out there, he may have arranged for her to be protected in this way. This, of course, assumes that the resurrection technology works on hybrids as well as on full blood Cylons.

Didn't they say resurrection was originally discovered by the human colonies and later rediscovered by the cylons? If so, then it is definitely compatible with humans, it just has to be configured to work with a regular human.

Am I the only one who noticed that they only showed "Head Six" from the midriff up? Is Tricia Helfer pregnant in real life?

Also, did anyone else notice th at Starbuck hears the sound of a piano playing in the bar, but we never SEE it? When she asks about it, the bartender blows off her question... This would make Starbuck the latest character to start hearing phantom music...

i really liked it that ellen is the same wildly flawed character she was before she resurrected. finding out that she is cylonmother hasnt made her a better person.

i really liked it that ellen is the same wildly flawed character she was before she resurrected. finding out that she is cylonmother hasnt made her a better person.

Yeah at first when she was still on the Base Ship she was all motherly and sweet, but back amongst her old friends she's gone right back to the underhanded scheming bitch we've come to know and love.

And the whole Tighe/Adama relationship just becomes more and more complicated.

do you think that if tigh remembers his past as a cylon that he will be creeped out by his relationship with the 6 like ellen is?

And the whole Tighe/Adama relationship just becomes more and more complicated.

How so?

do you think that if tigh remembers his past as a cylon that he will be creeped out by his relationship with the 6 like ellen is?

Or for that matter, Tyrol and Boomer.

Or for that matter, Tyrol and Boomer.
yeah

ellen seems to regard it as incest.

yeah

ellen seems to regard it as incest.

And that raises some interesting additional questions... Earlier in the series it was mentioned that Cylons couldn't have babies with each other. We assume they refer to the Significant Seven. I wonder if those experiments went on after Cavil bumped the Final Five out of the way since it seems unlikely they'd have been on bard with that kind of experimentation.

this whole notion that cylons want nothing more than to be human is ..... kinda pinocchio-ish. i sympathize with the dean stockwell cylon who would like to have enhanced abilities rather than humanity.

this whole notion that cylons want nothing more than to be human is ..... kinda pinocchio-ish. i sympathize with the dean stockwell cylon who would like to have enhanced abilities rather than humanity.

Ah, except that Cavil clearly hasn't learned to embrace the good things his "humanity" comes with, like the ability/desire to love, which is arguably more important.

Ah, except that Cavil clearly hasn't learned to embrace the good things his "humanity" comes with, like the ability/desire to love, which is arguably more important.
only if what you want is to be a real boy.

only if what you want is to be a real boy.

I wonder if it might be feasible to develop a way for Cavil to somehow upload his personality/consciousness into a Centurion.

only if what you want is to be a real boy.

Well, creative intelligence is a pretty big thing that Ellen mentions. I also imagine this implies that a person cannot be uploaded into a toaster, or at least do so and maintain certain important aspects of their personality?

I wonder if it might be feasible to develop a way for Cavil to somehow upload his personality/consciousness into a Centurion.
it must not be or he would have done it already.

centurions dont resurrect do they?

That's what I wonder... I mean a centurion's head looks big enough to house a human sized brain... Could they create some kind of bio interface and stick Cavil's brain into a centurion?

Because that would open up a whole plethora of possibilities, like being able to transport it from form to form, like a Raider or a Centurion, depending on what he wants to do at any given moment...

...not unlike the Titans in the Dune prequels.

it must not be or he would have done it already.

centurions dont resurrect do they?

We know Raiders do... Scar, for example... So why not?

It's making me really whiny that I cannot seem to find my usual BSG online, since I'm never around on Friday nights. Anyone know where I can find the most recent episode?

Well, creative intelligence is a pretty big thing that Ellen mentions. I also imagine this implies that a person cannot be uploaded into a toaster, or at least do so and maintain certain important aspects of their personality?
centurions must have some amount of personality or they wouldnt have revolted and they wouldnt have had the driving need to make human-like cylons.

It's making me really whiny that I cannot seem to find my usual BSG online, since I'm never around on Friday nights. Anyone know where I can find the most recent episode?
have you tried hulu?

centurions must have some amount of personality or they wouldnt have revolted and they wouldnt have had the driving need to make human-like cylons.

Ya, except they were failing at it. I'm just quoting Ellen, anyway. =p

Ya, except they were failing at it. I'm just quoting Ellen, anyway. =p
yeah they were failing at making humanlike cylons. but they still had some amount of unintended personality driving them to try it.

yeah they were failing at making humanlike cylons. but they still had some amount of unintended personality driving them to try it.

Is that creative intelligence, though, or are they just responding to the fact that they were made by humans?

Is that creative intelligence, though, or are they just responding to the fact that they were made by humans?
dunno

but it would seem to exceed the original programming.

It's making me really whiny that I cannot seem to find my usual BSG online, since I'm never around on Friday nights. Anyone know where I can find the most recent episode?

Like Ashmoria said, I'd suggest hulu.com. Or you can go to scifi.com they usually have a few for free download. iTunes has also brought it back since they ironed things out with NBC, I believe.

have you tried hulu?

Yeah, it only goes up to episode 17. That's what's getting my flustered.

Yeah, it only goes up to episode 17. That's what's getting my flustered.
oh i guess they want you to buy it on itunes. maybe in a few days?

It's making me really whiny that I cannot seem to find my usual BSG online, since I'm never around on Friday nights. Anyone know where I can find the most recent episode?

If you have comcast it's on OnDemand under tv shows.

oh i guess they want you to buy it on itunes. maybe in a few days?

Aye, so it is. I've gotten used to it being on Hulu the next morning, although I thought they'd stopped using iTunes sometime last year. Who knows.

Aye, so it is. I've gotten used to it being on Hulu the next morning, although I thought they'd stopped using iTunes sometime last year. Who knows.

They had quit using iTunes when Apple and NBC had a spat. My understanding is that they're back together and seeking counseling.

That episode sucked.

That episode sucked.

TBH, I agree. It felt like filler more than anything else. Kinda like they used it to set up something bigger.

I was kinda creeped out by the whole harping on how Ty's Sperm Proves He Loves You.

"He does so love you, Caprica, and you can tell cause he got you PREGGERS! You're KNOCKED THE FUCK UP, girl! That's proof! See! His splooge is proof of his love!"

Meanwhile she's lying there losing her baby, and I've gotta wonder if she really gives a flying fuck. Yeah, yay, he loves me, swell. Can I get back to grinding my teeth over this crippling abdominal pain and mourning the loss of my pregnancy now?

TBH, I agree. It felt like filler more than anything else. Kinda like they used it to set up something bigger.

It felt more like a space soap opera than anything.

I was kinda creeped out by the whole harping on how Ty's Sperm Proves He Loves You.

"He does so love you, Caprica, and you can tell cause he got you PREGGERS! You're KNOCKED THE FUCK UP, girl! That's proof! See! His splooge is proof of his love!"

Meanwhile she's lying there losing her baby, and I've gotta wonder if she really gives a flying fuck. Yeah, yay, he loves me, swell. Can I get back to grinding my teeth over this crippling abdominal pain and mourning the loss of my pregnancy now?

Yeah she's really into that, isn't she? Which is especially weird since she still sees it as borderline incest.

But you know she doesn't care. The only question now is what triggered the miscarriage... the emotional stress or the fight at the beginning of the episode?

And how weird was it that suddenly Roslin wants to be nice to her...?

It felt more like a space soap opera than anything.

Yeah, which was one of the things that really slowed things down in season 2. "I love you Chief, too bad I blew Adama away or we could keep fraking."
"I love you Helo, now get me pregnant."
"I know you're a Cylon but I love you."
"I know you're a Cylon so I'll pretend not to love you."
"I love you Starbuck but you fraked Baltar so now I hate you."
"I love you lee which is why I shouted your name."

I gotta say, though, the Mutiny Episode? Best hour I've spent in front of my teevee in a long time.

"I could keep doing this all day." The amount of badass in that scene was too great for my mortal brain to fully grasp it all.

Yeah, which was one of the things that really slowed things down in season 2. "I love you Chief, too bad I blew Adama away or we could keep fraking."
"I love you Helo, now get me pregnant."
"I know you're a Cylon but I love you."
"I know you're a Cylon so I'll pretend not to love you."
"I love you Starbuck but you fraked Baltar so now I hate you."
"I love you lee which is why I shouted your name."

Yeah, no, seriously. Most annoying parts of the series.

TBH, I agree. It felt like filler more than anything else. Kinda like they used it to set up something bigger.

They had to have a lull in the build up to the final episode at some point. Especially after the two episodes of the mutiny, which were extremely fast-paced and ultimately cathartic, they had to give the audience a break. They can't just make each episode left in the season climactic, or it would lose the shock value.

Actually 'No Exit' felt more like the filler episode. TONS of exposition. I mean there were even scenes with the Final Five Exposition Cylons going around asking each other, "Hey, do you remember any more of the exposition?" and then going "Yes... I remember blah blah blah, but only in dramatically-timed flashes. You?"

They had to have a lull in the build up to the final episode at some point. Especially after the two episodes of the mutiny, which were extremely fast-paced and ultimately cathartic, they had to give the audience a break. They can't just make each episode left in the season climactic, or it would lose the shock value.

I disagree, I loved the action and I'm snoozing through this filler stuff. I think they should have just expanded on the mutiny stuff, had it last longer, and used it to address plot issues instead of having these exposition episodes.

The most fun part of the mutiny was watching all the main characters get to be awesome and watching some of them come full circle with their personalities.

Obviously Starbuck needed her own entire episode, all about how she's twice the man and three times the woman that Bruce Willis is. Toss Apollo Spice in the mix with her, make sure his shirt gets ripped 10 minutes into the episode, and you've got a smashing great hour of telly time.

Adama Sr. needed more badass screen time, too. Instead of stupid flashback content showing him and Ty back in the day, I wish they'd illuminate the friendship and the bond between those guys by putting them in a situation where they're basically back in the war together just like when they were younger. But then, flaskbacks always annoy me.

The Chief crawling through the walls shit was a great touch, especially the scene where he crawls out of the vent and finds a rifle pointing at his head. I think it could have been very cool to have him crawling through walls and catching tiny glimpses of what was going on outside every now and then.

The only thing I'd hate is that they'd also have had to expand on Baltar's stuff, and I stopped caring about his story line by the end of the first season.

I was kinda creeped out by the whole harping on how Ty's Sperm Proves He Loves You.

"He does so love you, Caprica, and you can tell cause he got you PREGGERS! You're KNOCKED THE FUCK UP, girl! That's proof! See! His splooge is proof of his love!"

Meanwhile she's lying there losing her baby, and I've gotta wonder if she really gives a flying fuck. Yeah, yay, he loves me, swell. Can I get back to grinding my teeth over this crippling abdominal pain and mourning the loss of my pregnancy now?

You see Bottle, the love of a pimp is different than the love of a square...

I disagree, I loved the action and I'm snoozing through this filler stuff. I think they should have just expanded on the mutiny stuff, had it last longer, and used it to address plot issues instead of having these exposition episodes.

The most fun part of the mutiny was watching all the main characters get to be awesome and watching some of them come full circle with their personalities.

Obviously Starbuck needed her own entire episode, all about how she's twice the man and three times the woman that Bruce Willis is. Toss Apollo Spice in the mix with her, make sure his shirt gets ripped 10 minutes into the episode, and you've got a smashing great hour of telly time.

Adama Sr. needed more badass screen time, too. Instead of stupid flashback content showing him and Ty back in the day, I wish they'd illuminate the friendship and the bond between those guys by putting them in a situation where they're basically back in the war together just like when they were younger. But then, flaskbacks always annoy me.

The Chief crawling through the walls shit was a great touch, especially the scene where he crawls out of the vent and finds a rifle pointing at his head. I think it could have been very cool to have him crawling through walls and catching tiny glimpses of what was going on outside every now and then.

The only thing I'd hate is that they'd also have had to expand on Baltar's stuff, and I stopped caring about his story line by the end of the first season.

I think the mutiny was just long enough. A real mutiny would be over that quickly; either with the mutineers consolidating control, or the original leadership retaking the ship. It was quick and fast just like a real mutiny would be, and I think to drag it out artificially would be a transparent plot device.

I was intrigued by the return of head Six, especially after her long absence and the presence of the real, live Caprica Six.

I think the mutiny was just long enough. A real mutiny would be over that quickly; either with the mutineers consolidating control, or the original leadership retaking the ship. It was quick and fast just like a real mutiny would be, and I think to drag it out artificially would be a transparent plot device.

I see your point, but frankly I think all the exposition stuff now seems tacked on and artificial too. I'd rather have artificial-flavored action than artificial-flavored inaction.


I was intrigued by the return of head Six, especially after her long absence and the presence of the real, live Caprica Six.
Sometimes I wonder how much of the plot of this show was determined by their desire to not hire more actors. :P I took a break from watching the show for a couple seasons and then had some catch-up to do, and I seriously had to write down how many different individuals were played by each actor and what the key info on each copy was. The Sharon/Boomer distinction still gives me brain-owies sometimes.

I gotta say, though, the Mutiny Episode? Best hour I've spent in front of my teevee in a long time.

"I could keep doing this all day." The amount of badass in that scene was too great for my mortal brain to fully grasp it all.

Totally. That's what happens when Starbuck is cranked up to full power.

They had to have a lull in the build up to the final episode at some point. Especially after the two episodes of the mutiny, which were extremely fast-paced and ultimately cathartic, they had to give the audience a break. They can't just make each episode left in the season climactic, or it would lose the shock value.

That, and Ron Moore indicated in his podcast most of this stuff was written by assistants so he could focus on the finale, so don't expect too many big moments.

Although I still think the end when Tigh was crying on Adama's shoulder was well written and performed. It really showed how close these two guys are, like brothers, even with the difficulties they had before. It also helps to put into perspective Adama's pain when he first learned Tigh was a Cylon, and was crying in a puddle in Lee's arms a few episodes ago.

Totally. That's what happens when Starbuck is cranked up to full power.

The whole Starbuck-As-Harbinger thing started really bugging me during the previous season (half-season?), but recently I went back and was watching the first season and I remembered why I loved her character so much. She was just such a freaking PUNK all the time.

I appreciate that they wanted her character to have depth, I really do, but it's also nice to just see her back in her original name-taking ass-kicking state.


PS: Cut her goddam hair please.

The whole Starbuck-As-Harbinger thing started really bugging me during the previous season (half-season?), but recently I went back and was watching the first season and I remembered why I loved her character so much. She was just such a freaking PUNK all the time.

I appreciate that they wanted her character to have depth, I really do, but it's also nice to just see her back in her original name-taking ass-kicking state.


PS: Cut her goddam hair please.

They seemed to be doing that with a lot of characters... Starbuck returning to her smarth-mouth ass-kicking viper-jock no bullshit "Yes, I'd hit a cripple" personality we came to love in Season 1, Apollo backed her up, returning to teh whole Butch Cassidy and Sundance thing with Starbuck and a military role after his stint with Government life, Chief Tyrol was once again using his skills and knowledge of the Galactica to help save the day, Roslin was asserting her Presidential authority, etc etc etc

And yes, Kara, please... for the love of the gods... get a haircut.

I really could have done without the Tigh/Ellen sex eye injury squick scene.

I really could have done without the Tigh/Ellen sex eye injury squick scene.

...yeah that was... food for a zillion highly inappropriate comments...

And yes, Kara, please... for the love of the gods... get a haircut.
Himself keeps having to shush me because I continually comment on how they should cut off Kara's hair and glue it to Baltar's head.

I really could have done without the Tigh/Ellen sex eye injury squick scene.
While I think it's cool for a show to be portraying a sexual relationship between characters who AREN'T 20-year-old models, I also think that they're kinda milking the shock value at this point. They don't need to spend as much on-screen time showing those two screwing.

I dislike how they turned cool, calm, collected super-Ellen back into a whiny, jealous little **** again.

Seriously, it irritated me to no end.

They seemed to be doing that with a lot of characters... Starbuck returning to her smarth-mouth ass-kicking viper-jock no bullshit "Yes, I'd hit a cripple" personality we came to love in Season 1, Apollo backed her up, returning to teh whole Butch Cassidy and Sundance thing with Starbuck and a military role after his stint with Government life, Chief Tyrol was once again using his skills and knowledge of the Galactica to help save the day, Roslin was asserting her Presidential authority, etc etc etc

And yes, Kara, please... for the love of the gods... get a haircut.

I think that was the whole point of the mutiny episode, to return people to their natural states. It showed that, in a crisis or emergency, these people, for all the outward changes we've seen them go through, are still the same people they were before the colonial holocaust. Adama is still a no-nonsense, tough-as-nails leader who commands respect from everyone around him; Tigh is still a fiercely loyal career soldier who would gladly die for ship and captain; Lee is still a noble and heroic soldier who can always be counted on to do the right thing; Starbuck is still a hot-headed, take-no-prisoners badass, never far from a fight; Tyrol is still a lovable good guy who gets things done; Baltar is still a self-serving coward (though he never really changed); Roslin is still a ruthless and vindictive politician who aims to destroy anyone who gets in her way; and Zarek is still an evil and manipulative dictator. Even Gaeta sort of went back to the idealistic and uncompromising man he used to be, in a way.

This has all happened before, and will all happen again. It feels like everything is coming around full circle.

I dislike how they turned cool, calm, collected super-Ellen back into a whiny, jealous little **** again.

Seriously, it irritated me to no end.

I liked it. It showed that even rediscovering that she is the Cylon equivalent of Eve didn't make her a better person, even a little bit. It certainly makes the character much easier to despise.

While I think it's cool for a show to be portraying a sexual relationship between characters who AREN'T 20-year-old models, I also think that they're kinda milking the shock value at this point. They don't need to spend as much on-screen time showing those two screwing.

I was just waiting to see of their spines lit up.

...New Cylon detector... get 'em to cum while on all fours!

I liked it. It showed that even rediscovering that she is the Cylon equivalent of Eve didn't make her a better person, even a little bit. It certainly makes the character much easier to despise.

Yeah, I understand the dramatic reasons for doing so. If she'd remained so different from her earlier persona, then when the others get their memories back, they'd also change.

I like the others how they are!

But still, man, bitch or what?

I was kinda creeped out by the whole harping on how Ty's Sperm Proves He Loves You.

"He does so love you, Caprica, and you can tell cause he got you PREGGERS! You're KNOCKED THE FUCK UP, girl! That's proof! See! His splooge is proof of his love!"
God yes, I hated that! And it's not true, either! He hated Caprica's guts because she was a Cylon and he only ever slept with her in the first place when he went into her cell to interrogate her and beat her up and then suddenly kept seeing Ellen's face instead of hers - that's the only reason.
He only has any affection for her because he's basically having sex with Ellen every time he sleeps with her and she's pregnant with his kid.

And even worse than Ellen blabbering on about "he knocked you up that means he loves you!" was that Tigh didn't even set the record straight - he spent half the episode fighting with Ellen about Caprica and the best he could come up with was "I was thinking of you when I did it"? When he could have just said "Listen, she transforms into you every time I look at her, never was sure if she actually did or if that was just hallucinations"? Ugh.
The boyfriend insisted that that made total sense because Tigh is just bad at expressing his feelings but I say that's bullshit, it's just badly written, disregarding basic common sense and probability in favor of fake, illogical drama.

I gotta say, though, the Mutiny Episode? Best hour I've spent in front of my teevee in a long time.

"I could keep doing this all day." The amount of badass in that scene was too great for my mortal brain to fully grasp it all.
Yep, those two episodes were fantastic. Loved Mary McDonnell in Roslin's "down to my own eye teeth" speech.

The boyfriend insisted that that made total sense because Tigh is just bad at expressing his feelings but I say that's bullshit, it's just badly written, disregarding basic common sense and probability in favor of fake, illogical drama.You're a woman, that's why.

The boyfriend insisted that that made total sense because Tigh is just bad at expressing his feelings but I say that's bullshit, it's just badly written, disregarding basic common sense and probability in favor of fake, illogical drama.

Um, particularly since he expresses his feelings all the goddamn time. If anything, he's one of the MOST overtly emotional characters on the show.

You're a woman, that's why.

Yeah, see, that was basically his excuse. "Some men are like that, they just have a hard time expressing their feelings". That's fine and all, but there's the legitimate "character just has his usual hard time expressing his feelings, thus screwing up a situation more than necessary" and then there's the just plain badly written "character acts really stupid just so we can get the story to go where we want it to because we didn't really think things through and who cares if it's totally unbelievable". And this was so very much the latter.

Yeah, see, that was basically his excuse. "Some men are like that, they just have a hard time expressing their feelings". That's fine and all, but there's the legitimate "character just has his usual hard time expressing his feelings, thus screwing up a situation more than necessary" and then there's the just plain badly written "character acts really stupid just so we can get the story to go where we want it to because we didn't really think things through and who cares if it's totally unbelievable". And this was so very much the latter.I was going to say something about women always looking for the dramatic things when there aren't any but then you made this logical post explaining this like you women always do, making this post completely redundant. Damn you, womem, with your logical sense for drama!


Kidding, I'm just bored.
:tongue:

The Daniel Cylon model is the father of Kara Thrace.

I've given a few supports for this theory already, but we found a new one. Last night SciFi was running 4th season episodes of BSG and one of them was the episode in which Starbuck and friends first come aboard the rebel Cylon Base Ship. She goes to meet the hybrid and while the hybrid is talking to her, one of the things it says is

"You come from the home of the 13th."

At the time, the characters all took that to mean the 13th colony, Earth. But what if th at isn't what the hybrid meant, what if the hybrid meant the 13th CYLON? Daniel will have been the 13th skinjob model to be revealed to not only us as the viewing audience, but the characters in the series.

I am going to miss tonight's episode. Does anyone know when else Sci-Fi airs it?

I am going to miss tonight's episode. Does anyone know when else Sci-Fi airs it?
it plays again 2 hours later.

i checked my dvr and didnt see it again in the next week.

it plays again 2 hours later.

i checked my dvr and didnt see it again in the next week.

:(

I might be home for the second showing, but it's doubtful.

:(

I might be home for the second showing, but it's doubtful.
better find some way of recording it. i checked scifi.com and hulu for last week's episode and didnt find it on either site.

There's usually a week lag on SciFi posting it.

Try MegaVideo.

or starbuck's long-lost dad

fucking called it

Certainly explains how Kara was reborn, this would imply that her father possibly has a working resurrection ship which he directly controls or is 'keeping on ice' for the time being. I think it might be the resurrection ship that the Final Five had at the time of Earth's destruction.

Daniel might be using long range cylon-projection to communicate with Kara, she would be capable of it since she is a hybrid.

Or Kara's father might be like Baltar's Six, being only in her mind.

Or Kara's father might be like Baltar's Six, being only in her mind.

When are they going to explain that shit? Baltar has a Six in his head but it's not a Cylon implant because Caprica Six has a Baltar in her head and each is influencing their respective character to entirely opposite ends.

Dude that was totally Jupiter Boomer jumped to...

That episode kind of plodded along. It was trying to do too much, I think.

Dude that was totally Jupiter Boomer jumped to...

That's exactly what my first thought was when Boomer arrived at her jump destination. Looks like they finally found Earth.

That's exactly what my first thought was when Boomer arrived at her jump destination. Looks like they finally found Earth.

Yeah... and didn't the next episode appear to have some kind of asteroid field? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

That episode kind of plodded along. It was trying to do too much, I think.
Aye. Too many threads, not enough time.

Is the final a 2 hour episode?

Is the final a 2 hour episode?

I think it's three hours: next week is one hour, as usual, then the finale is two.

I'm a bit worried now. I felt this week's episode didn't really do much to progress the plot.

Dude that was totally Jupiter Boomer jumped to...

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4299/jupiterq.jpg

I'm a sufficient nerd I made a pretty picture.

Do you think that they're both Jupiter?

Do you think that they're both Jupiter?
I think they're both gas giants, which, IIRC, are the most common planet in the galaxy.

I think they're both gas giants, which, IIRC, are the most common planet in the galaxy.

My thoughts. If they were chillaxin' in the solar system, someone would have noticed the presence of an FTL just a few light minutes away.

I think they're both gas giants, which, IIRC, are the most common planet in the galaxy.

But would the makers of the episode deliberately make one that looked like Jupiter without meaning it to be Jupiter? Hm.

My fear for this last episode is that they'll cram so much in that it'll be hard to keep up with.

But would the makers of the episode deliberately make one that looked like Jupiter without meaning it to be Jupiter? Hm.

I'm not quite willing to dig through back episodes on hulu, but I believe they've come across more than a few very Jupiter-like gas giants in the past.

My fear for this last episode is that they'll cram so much in that it'll be hard to keep up with.

I've got two bottles of wine, and a small group of fans and friends for the final episode. It had better be epic.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4299/jupiterq.jpg

I'm a sufficient nerd I made a pretty picture.

Do you think that they're both Jupiter?

Nope, the stars don't align properly. Look behind the planet in the BSG one: you can see the top two stars of Orion, with the belt obscured by the sun. In reality, from Jupiter's perspective, the sun never passes through Orion. All that means is that they're near Earth (they are), but that planet isn't in the Solar System.

But would the makers of the episode deliberately make one that looked like Jupiter without meaning it to be Jupiter?
I don't think it does look like Jupiter, deliberately or not. It looks like a gas giant, nothing more.

And anyhoo, the scene in question is just one stop on a series of FTL jumps. I think you're reading too much into this.

My fear for this last episode is that they'll cram so much in that it'll be hard to keep up with.
I dunno. They've managed to get themselves into a situation where all of the major characters, apart from Baltar, are going to the place where their storylines will happily end; including Galactica herself.

It's rather neat, really.

I don't think it does look like Jupiter, deliberately or not. It looks like a gas giant, nothing more.

And anyhoo, the scene in question is just one stop on a series of FTL jumps. I think you're reading too much into this.


I dunno. They've managed to get themselves into a situation where all of the major characters, apart from Baltar, are going to the place where their storylines will happily end; including Galactica herself.

It's rather neat, really.

They'll figure out a way to get Baltar in there. And I'm not sure all of them are in for a happy ending.

They'll figure out a way to get Baltar in there.
Definitely.

And I'm not sure all of them are in for a happy ending.
Yeah. :(

They'll figure out a way to get Baltar in there.
Unless he has to lead the non-suicidal humans...

It was a bit like, 'Could all characters whose storyline isn't finished please step to this side of the red line. Thank you.'

And I'm not sure all of them are in for a happy ending.
Blaze.

Of.

Glory.

I've avoided every post in this topic, just FYI. I've only just began watching the show, in fact. As we speak, I'm only on episode 6 of the 1st season, so there's no way I'll be able to finish in time for the final episode.

That said, I love everything I've seen so far. I started determined to like Baltar the most, having already a brief knowledge of his character path. But Apollo won me over with his general good-guy-ness (and Helo's doing a pretty good job himself).