NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok, so what is your least favorite plot device? It can come from a movie, a comic book, a regular book, game, anywhere.

For me, I really hate the revolving door of death. Someone gets shot, you see them get shot, you see blood, and you see them lying lifeless. And yet, they survive! The comics are really bad at this from what I hear.

However in my own experience, Matrix Online storyline is bad at this. At the beginning of the game, in Chapter 1.3, Morpheus dies, and yet we now have him back in the form of a computer program. There's also characters in the game that either nearly escape death, or the plot would've made a Hell lot more sense if that person died.

Now it's your turn.

Deus ex machina.

Ok, so what is your least favorite plot device? It can come from a movie, a comic book, a regular book, game, anywhere.

For me, I really hate the revolving door of death. Someone gets shot, you see them get shot, you see blood, and you see them lying lifeless. And yet, they survive! The comics are really bad at this from what I hear.

However in my own experience, Matrix Online storyline is bad at this. At the beginning of the game, in Chapter 1.3, Morpheus dies, and yet we now have him back in the form of a computer program. There's also characters in the game that either nearly escape death, or the plot would've made a Hell lot more sense if that person died.

Now it's your turn.
Yeah. Comics are bad with that. Supergirls death was awsome. it was touching and unexpected. yet they had to 'bring her back'.

I hear they brought back Jason Todd (the Robin the public wanted to die.)

I hate it when they use a title that is obviously a tie in to something else (say Final Fantasy:Spirtis Within) yet the movie has NOTHING to do with where they got the title.

Oh and anything given to Ewe Boll.

the quest though this may be because I'm bitter and lazy

Deus ex machina.

Yep. Completely Unrealistic.

Have you ever seen Alias? I'm pretty sure everyone dies but no one stays dead.

Deus ex machina.

Agreed, I chuckled when apparently the head guy of the machines in Matrix: Revolution was named after that plot device.

Have you ever seen Alias? I'm pretty sure everyone dies but no one stays dead.

That's more because no one was the real character they were supposed to be.

Matrix: Revolution

Ugh.

That one where the dog is intelligent and evil

That one where the dog is intelligent and evil

Wtf?

Deus ex machina.

It depends on HOW it's used.

It depends on HOW it's used.

I agree with this.

It depends on HOW it's used.

How can you use it, besides for unrealistic convenience?

You Wilgrove. The plot here was nice and fine until you twisted it.

The ultra-precocious child.

That one where the dog is intelligent and evil

Yes, the intelligent dog needs to be witty and sarcastic, but genuinely good, like Brian Griffin.

You have to be into some fairly old pulp fiction to see anyone use this one in earnest anymore, but the guy who is about to reveal the bad guy-usually a henchman who feels wronged or someone who is trapped by the badguy do to his bidding in someway-drags it out, complains that he'll get killed, then finally with dramatic pause sets about revealing the identity only to be shot one the word "It's..."

It's painful because you see it coming a mile away and you just have to sit through it. The whole 'no snitching' thing is unfairly laid on gangsta rappers, it's been around as long as gangster fiction-don't snitch, you'll get shot half way through.

It depends on HOW it's used.

Since it's the mark of poor authorship, there is no other use than the substandard one.

You have to be into some fairly old pulp fiction to see anyone use this one in earnest anymore, but the guy who is about to reveal the bad guy-usually a henchman who feels wronged or someone who is trapped by the badguy do to his bidding in someway-drags it out, complains that he'll get killed, then finally with dramatic pause sets about revealing the identity only to be shot one the word "It's..."

It's painful because you see it coming a mile away and you just have to sit through it. The whole 'no snitching' thing is unfairly laid on gangsta rappers, it's been around as long as gangster fiction-don't snitch, you'll get shot half way through.

Star Wars Episode 2 kind of had this one with that shapeshifting bounty hunter. But then Lucas is known for borrowing off old movies.;)

Any kind of miraculous sappy tripe that Hollywood adores affixing to the end of an otherwise mediocre film to pluck at the heart strings of the sentimental sap who loves a feel-good moralistic ending where the villain receives his cliché and otherwise inevitable and highly predictable 'just desserts'.

Any kind of miraculous sappy tripe that Hollywood adores affixing to the end of an otherwise mediocre film to pluck at the heart strings of the sentimental sap who loves a feel-good moralistic ending where the villain receives his cliché and otherwise inevitable and highly predictable 'just fruits'.

One could say "the opposite of Bergman".

...ending where the villain receives his cliché...

Like Star Trek II: The wrath of *says like Kirk*KAHN?

Like Star Trek II: The wrath of *says like Kirk*KAHN?

I wouldn't know. Never seen it.

Any plot device that leads to the emergence of zombies

How can you use it, besides for unrealistic convenience?

Take the original movie adaptation of Andromeda Strain. The fact that they detect the pathogen is mutating but don't know how it's mutating adds to the suspence until the point where it becomes harmless. then the suspense shifts to stopping the facility from self destructing.

Then there's the Deus ex machina being used poorly. Dragon Wars is one that comes to mind.

The amulet suddenly wipes out an entire army that withstands the might of a modern day one

that was piss poor useage of a Deus ex machina.

I hate it when they use a title that is obviously a tie in to something else (say Final Fantasy:Spirtis Within) yet the movie has NOTHING to do with where they got the title.
Which is actually a load of shit. Everyone expected the FF VII movie and Spirits Within was not that so all the fanboys started bandying around bullshit about Spirits Within having nothing to do with the Final Fantasy universe. Never mind the fact that the Final Fantasy "universe" is completely different in every single game. Final Fantasy is not a continuous series; it is a set of completely diverse series under the Final Fantasy name.
Advent Children was a fucking god awful movie yet all the fanboys who panned Spirits Within when it came out simultaneously orgasmed because it was FF VII.

Like Star Trek II: The wrath of *says like Kirk*KAHN?

I would think more like the 'nerd' in Goldeneye. "I am Invicable!" then he dies.

Creepy Little Girls. Seriously, just die already.

Mothers, or women who are faced with a clearly psychotic/evil/Creepy Little Girl, but at the moment of decision cannot bring themselves to harm her/it because it's cute or reminds them of the daughter or child they once lost.

Genre movies set in the modern era where the characters mysteriously have no awareness of the genre, and are not reminded of it despite the clear and obvious indicators.

Clones, doubles, evil twins.

Girls who scream pointlessly. I'm looking at you, horror movies. "Oh no! It's a dead body! I'm scared so I'll scream! Oh no, it's another one, and I am equally shocked and horrified and will scream just as loudly! Oh no, yet another one! Time for a good long scream! Quick, time to find a small stone step I can trip and fall over, or a wall I can run head first into! OH NO A DEAD BODY!"

Heroic, cute or comical friendly animals.


And yes, I know that few if any of those qualify as 'plot devices' but I felt like ranting about them.

I wouldn't know. Never seen it.

Here's a spoiler: Kahn is this Genetically enginerred human who gets off this barren world and steals a device that can basically create a planet out of nothing, and at the end of the movie he activates it, and blows himself up in a massive planet forming explosion.


Kahn is this Genetically enginerred human ho
lol, this quoted item was BEFORE editing.

Which is actually a load of shit. Everyone expected the FF VII movie and Spirits Within was not that so all the fanboys started bandying around bullshit about Spirits Within having nothing to do with the Final Fantasy universe. Never mind the fact that the Final Fantasy "universe" is completely different in every single game. Final Fantasy is not a continuous series; it is a set of completely diverse series under the Final Fantasy name.

They may be different, but many elements are used that do tie them together...

Spirits Within contained, little, if any of these...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_elements_of_Final_Fantasy

Which is actually a load of shit. Everyone expected the FF VII movie and Spirits Within was not that so all the fanboys started bandying around bullshit about Spirits Within having nothing to do with the Final Fantasy universe. Never mind the fact that the Final Fantasy "universe" is completely different in every single game. Final Fantasy is not a continuous series; it is a set of completely diverse series under the Final Fantasy name.

ah, but there are some similarities within all of the Final Fantasy games.
The melding of both Tech and Magic
Swords and guns (and in some cases, swords that are guns)
The different classes involved.
The interaction between the various species (intelligent interaction)

FF:TSW had none of that.

Spirits Within contained, little, if any of these...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_elements_of_Final_Fantasy

Not containing Chocobos or Bahamut doesn't make it not Final Fantasy.

I would think more like the 'nerd' in Goldeneye. "I am Invicable!" then he dies.

That is better. Or like that chain smoking sniper in the FIRST xXx. Xander Cage(Vin Deisel) takes a heat-seeking missle, locks onto the "cherry" and fires blowing the guy up!

Any plot device that leads to the emergence of zombies

You take that back!:mad:

Not containing Chocobos or Bahamut doesn't make it not Final Fantasy.

Yeah...Cause that was everything on the list...:rolleyes:

The melding of both Tech and Magic
Spirits Within contained mysticism and tech.

Swords and guns (and in some cases, swords that are guns)
In Spirits Within.

The different classes involved.
No FF game I have played except Tactics had classes.

The interaction between the various species (intelligent interaction)
There were no non-Human characters in FF VIII. I don't remember any in FF VII either. VIII didn't even have Chocobos.

Yeah...Cause that was everything on the list...:rolleyes:
No, but that is the only thing anyone sees.

There were no non-Human characters in FF VIII. I don't remember any in FF VII either.
Are you talking playable or not? In FF VIII, for NPC you had the Shumi Tribe, who were sentient beings that were not Human. In FF VII you had Cait Sith which was in itself not a human, though it was controlled by a human.

There were no non-Human characters in FF VIII. I don't remember any in FF VII either.

lolwut?

http://www.geocities.com/timessquare/dungeon/2857/red13.jpg

http://www.ffcompendium.com/chara/7-caitsith-c.jpg

"Oh My God he's dying!"
"Uh...The...Uh...Man..Uh...Uh..In..Uh..Uh......"
"What, what man?"
"In Uh.. the.... Uh red cap"
*dies*

It happens in good movies too. Really busts you out of your suspension of disbelief.

It happens in good movies too. Really busts you out of your suspension of disbelief.

You mean Nuking the Fridge?

lolwut?

http://www.geocities.com/timessquare/dungeon/2857/red13.jpg

Whoa, how'd I forget about my man (not so much) Red XIII?

-is ashamed that he remembered Cait Sith or Red XIII-

You take that back!:mad:

I'm not taking it back! I'm leaving it out there for all to see in its full shining glory of truthfulness and wonderment.

As for other annoying plot devices, the 'fatally injured guy working for the bad people who, as his last act, reveals to the good guy the plan of the baddies' is certainly up there too.

You mean Nuking the Fridge?

Not really. It's not crazy absurd in itself - it's a little stupid and contrived but I think the reason it's so damaging to the viewer is because of all the other gazillions of movies that have used it. It has become a stock scene and this particular example is so jarring because usually things become overfamiliar through overuse because of the audience's reaction, not in spite of it.

Spirits Within contained mysticism and tech. no it didn't. the "energy" was mechanically derived and controlled. Even the main character had to use a machine to check on her infected 'spirt'. hardly mysticism. Even FFVIII had the Guardian forces that the playable characters could access.
In Spirits Within. got the guns, where's the swords and other medival weaponry? the blending of old and new? hard to hit a phantom with melee weapons.
No FF game I have played except Tactics had classes. All of them had. not all FF Games had classes you could 'choose'. they were sometimes referred to as Occupation or Jobs.

Infodumping. In movies and television, where it needs to be in the dialogue, it's very hard to pull off right, and it usually completely ruins my immersion in the show, especially if it's science fiction where it's mostly technobabble.

Kudzu plots irritate me a lot too, and Mary Sues.

"Hey, let's declare that the main good guy and the main bad guy are related!"

"Hey, let's declare that the main good guy and the main bad guy are related!"

And he Built C-3P0 and The force is just Midichlorians in your Blood!

lol

"Hey, let's declare that the main good guy and the main bad guy are related!"



Really Star Wars is the only one that can get away with that.

My least favorite so far unmentioned one is easily the Bond Villian. The guy who, upon capturing the hero, tells him all the intimate details of his secret plan and exactly how he might be foiled if the hero is to somehow escape.

The "Sean Bean pretends to be the good guy but is actually the bad guy" routine.

I mean, seriously... GoldenEye, The Island, National Treasure (yeah, I know, I deserved it for watching that piece of claptrap not once, but 3 times), Lord of The Rings... Why?

Really Star Wars is the only one that can get away with that.

No, not really. Espeically sicne they declared that the main good girl is ALSO related to them.

No, not really. Espeically sicne they declared that the main good girl is ALSO related to them.

Kennedys, eat your heart out.

The "Sean Bean pretends to be the good guy but is actually the bad guy" routine.

I mean, seriously... GoldenEye, The Island, National Treasure (yeah, I know, I deserved it for watching that piece of claptrap not once, but 3 times), Lord of The Rings... Why?

Huh? :confused:
Lord of the Rings is "he's a basically good, noble, and heroic individual who is corrupted by the power of an evil artifact, but in the end, finds redemption and dies trying to protect his friends."

Boromir was never an evil guy pretending to be good...

"It was all a dream" and its bastard children.

"It was all a dream" and its bastard children.


I wish those movies were all a dream. :(

Huh? :confused:
Lord of the Rings is "he's a basically good, noble, and heroic individual who is corrupted by the power of an evil artifact, but in the end, finds redemption and dies trying to protect his friends."

Boromir was never an evil guy pretending to be good...

Well, ok, if you want to split hairs then techinically you are correct. But he still had that moment of "I'm good BUT WAIT NOW I'M BAD!", even if he did then go "Ah, no, actually, I've changed my mind. I'm good again. Sorry about that. Won't happen again, I'm too full up of arrers now to be evil".

"It was all a dream" and its bastard children.

I agree, for the most part, though it can occasionally be used well. There was an episode of Angel, for example, that used it very effectively. (Though it then subverted it as
The dream is magical in nature and hooking up with Cordelia at the end of it causes him to revert to Angelus But still)

I guess this isn't so much a plot device as a linguistic device, but were you ever watching a show about traveling to some far off place and the idiot announcer is like "Blah blah blah is a land of contrasts!"

It's such an overworked, cliche, ridiculous thing to say. I just can't stand it. And it's redundant, as well, because there's contrast everywhere. Light and dark. Rain and No Rain. Etc. etc. WTF. It's meaningless.

"It was all a dream" and its bastard children.

lois kills stewie!

lois kills stewie!

I enjoyed the end of that, with Brian doing the "Well, I just think that if anyone was watching that, theyd feel a bit cheated".

I agree, for the most part, though it can occasionally be used well. There was an episode of Angel, for example, that used it very effectively. (Though it then subverted it as
The dream is magical in nature and hooking up with Cordelia at the end of it causes him to revert to Angelus But still)

that was actually a REALLY good episode. Usually the "all was a dream" is used either to revert back to the status quo, either by negating all the bad things that happened, thus making it all "good again" or showing how the good things turned out never happened, and the character's life still sucked.

That angel episode was...startling.

I enjoyed the end of that, with Brian doing the "Well, I just think that if anyone was watching that, theyd feel a bit cheated".

Well that's what made the episode so funny, given that it was obviously going to be fake SOMEHOW. It's also not the first time family guy pulled that trick, the first time being in the whole "end of the world" episode, which turns out to be the dream of...Patrick Duffy.

Well that's what made the episode so funny, given that it was obviously going to be fake SOMEHOW. It's also not the first time family guy pulled that trick, the first time being in the whole "end of the world" episode, which turns out to be the dream of...Patrick Duffy.

As an aside, the best part of the Louis kills Stewie episode was Stewie's people who suck song. Because everyone he mentioned did pretty much suck.

Time travel. It's mere presence in a story means "The writer is too lazy to think his way out of a situation and is going to edit the events out of existence at the end."
My other hated plot device:

"We've escaped the madness of war on our destroyed homeworld and may begin anew here, Eve."
"Ooooh, Adam...."
Or is this one more of a moral? It's a cheesy as hell ending I've seen too many times.

Post apocalypse nightmares where the end reveals it's Earth all along.

Environmentalist nightmares-the seventies were rife with these preachy crapfests, not a one of which is watchable or even makes it to late-night television anymore.

The "Sean Bean pretends to be the good guy but is actually the bad guy" routine.

I mean, seriously... GoldenEye, The Island, National Treasure (yeah, I know, I deserved it for watching that piece of claptrap not once, but 3 times), Lord of The Rings... Why? because it's payback for playing an awsome charater (http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0028205/) in his own series.

I agree, for the most part, though it can occasionally be used well. There was an episode of Angel, for example, that used it very effectively. (Though it then subverted it as
The dream is magical in nature and hooking up with Cordelia at the end of it causes him to revert to Angelus But still)
oh... gods that's irritating.

one series (ok, it was a soap opera) had one of their characters come back to life because his death, that happened years ago, turned out to be a bad dream to the wife. :mad:

because it's payback for playing an awsome charater (http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0028205/) in his own series.


oh... gods that's irritating.

one series (ok, it was a soap opera) had one of their characters come back to life because his death, that happened years ago, turned out to be a bad dream to the wife. :mad:

Where was this character the whole time?

As an aside, the best part of the Louis kills Stewie episode was Stewie's people who suck song. Because everyone he mentioned did pretty much suck.

I can't find a list of said people who suck :(

Maybe I should find someone who has the episode...

Where was this character the whole time?

IF the scene was to be belived... in her bed. :D she woke up next to him.

Time travel. It's mere presence in a story means "The writer is too lazy to think his way out of a situation and is going to edit the events out of existence at the end."

Time travel can be done well, if it's thought-provoking, and not just used to restore status quo.

Ok, so what is your least favorite plot device? It can come from a movie, a comic book, a regular book, game, anywhere.

For me, I really hate the revolving door of death. Someone gets shot, you see them get shot, you see blood, and you see them lying lifeless. And yet, they survive! The comics are really bad at this from what I hear.

They don't survive, they just get better. *nod*

Any plot device that leads to the emergence of zombies

Fuck you, zombies rule.

Infodumping. In movies and television, where it needs to be in the dialogue, it's very hard to pull off right, and it usually completely ruins my immersion in the show, especially if it's science fiction where it's mostly technobabble.

Kudzu plots irritate me a lot too, and Mary Sues.

Dammit, I was going to say Mary Sues.

Time travel. It's mere presence in a story means "The writer is too lazy to think his way out of a situation and is going to edit the events out of existence at the end."

Not if the entire story is about time travel, and actually explores aspects of it that are usually glossed over/ignored/taken for granted. See The Time Traveler's Wife and Mendoza in Hollywood, or the entire Company series by Kage Baker, for good examples.

The super-duper bad guy who is unrelentingly evil and the innocent and pure girl/child/whatever that makes him realize he has a heart after all
Any extreme trauma to one character for the sake of another character riding in on a white horse to "fix" it (yes, I read too much fanfiction)
Prolonged miscommunication that surpasses reason which results in terrible irony
Unexpected perspective as the main point of a story--like when you read 20 pages to find out in the last sentence that the zany main character is a basset hound or something

Not if the entire story is about time travel, and actually explores aspects of it that are usually glossed over/ignored/taken for granted. See The Time Traveler's Wife and Mendoza in Hollywood, or the entire Company series by Kage Baker, for good examples.

For games, see Red Alert and The Journeyman Project. :wink:

Wesley Crusher

The super-duper bad guy who is unrelentingly evil and the innocent and pure girl/child/whatever that makes him realize he has a heart after all

Oooooh, that one. Always bothered me. You know what the unrelentingly evil person would do when faced with the innocent and pure child? He'd kill the fucking child. Let's not forget final fantasy 7 when, faced with the pure and innocent girl that was Aeris, Sephiroth ran a fucking sword through her, and she did not get better

Any extreme trauma to one character for the sake of another character riding in on a white horse to "fix" it (yes, I read too much fanfiction)

Hermoine, you're bleeding horribly, if only Harry were here to fix it!
Prolonged miscommunication that surpasses reason which results in terrible irony

Oh, I'm sorry, did you hear us doing it? I'm sorry that must have kept you up, we were doing it all night long. She really loves doing it, for hours and hours. Sometimes, I think she only comes over just to do it. Last night, we did it with my best friend. She says he does it even better than I do. Ah well, she's coming over to do it again tonight, if you'd like to join us.

Unexpected perspective as the main point of a story--like when you read 20 pages to find out in the last sentence that the zany main character is a basset hound or something
Hello, my name is Benjy Compson, would you be my friend?

Infodumping. In movies and television, where it needs to be in the dialogue, it's very hard to pull off right, and it usually completely ruins my immersion in the show, especially if it's science fiction where it's mostly technobabble.

Poliwannacraca has the best phrase for this, being "the magical exposition fairy" in which highly trained people, conversing with other highly trained people, feel the need to state, with authority, things that even the most rudimentarily educated person in that field would be aware of, under the assumption that most people who WATCH wouldn't be aware of because they're not professionals. One episode of "House" in particular when the patient, after several tests, was finally diagnosed with...GRAVE'S DISEASE!!! (OOOOH, scary!)

Except Grave's Disease is a fairly common thyroid problem, diagnosable with a pretty simple hormone check.

Law and Order is horrible about this. "Oh, someone died while he was committing a felony, we can charge him with felony murder!" No...really? You don't fucking say....that's brilliant you came up with that. Why don't we bring in a first year law student, let's get his perspective on this.

Creepy Little Girls. Seriously, just die already.

Mothers, or women who are faced with a clearly psychotic/evil/Creepy Little Girl, but at the moment of decision cannot bring themselves to harm her/it because it's cute or reminds them of the daughter or child they once lost.

Hell yes to both of these. The horror genre sucks because it is gratuitous, cheap, and cliche, and this is one of the most obvious cliches of them all.

Genre movies set in the modern era where the characters mysteriously have no awareness of the genre, and are not reminded of it despite the clear and obvious indicators.

Maybe I'm not thinking of the right movies, but I don't think this would bother me too much.

Clones, doubles, evil twins.

Can be done well. Mostly just bland.

Girls who scream pointlessly. I'm looking at you, horror movies. "Oh no! It's a dead body! I'm scared so I'll scream! Oh no, it's another one, and I am equally shocked and horrified and will scream just as loudly! Oh no, yet another one! Time for a good long scream! Quick, time to find a small stone step I can trip and fall over, or a wall I can run head first into! OH NO A DEAD BODY!"

Maybe turn that cliche against itself and turn it into a good plot device for character devellopement. The first time the character sees a body, they scream in horror. The next time, they're just a bit startled, and perhaps disgusted. As the movie goes on, they become deadened to the loss of life. By the end of the movie they simply walk up to a bad guy, blow their head off, and stare callously down at the body without a trace of emotion. Or maybe it takes a particularily horrific or emotional death to finally elicite a response from them again.

Heroic, cute or comical friendly animals.

"Boy and his dog" movies can piss off.

And yes, I know that few if any of those qualify as 'plot devices' but I felt like ranting about them.

Don't we all?:)

If Boy meets Girl, they inevitably fall in love. This ritualistic thing in films always breaks my suspension of disbelief due to the sheer amount of stories like this.

no it didn't. the "energy" was mechanically derived and controlled. Even the main character had to use a machine to check on her infected 'spirt'. hardly mysticism. Even FFVIII had the Guardian forces that the playable characters could access.
The "spirits" were the spirits of dead aliens who fought an epic war. Watch the movie.

got the guns, where's the swords and other medival weaponry?
Spirit war. Swords and shit.

All of them had. not all FF Games had classes you could 'choose'. they were sometimes referred to as Occupation or Jobs.
Neither FF VII nor VIII had occupation or jobs. I'm not fucking stupid, I know what counts as classes in FF.

Ok, there were maybe two non-human characters in FF VII and VIII but they barely count when you look at other games. And they were unique, ever see another red tiger thing? No. Or another whatever the fuck that magic cat was? No. IN fact, it was a damn robot riding a magically controlled stuffed animal.

Poliwannacraca has the best phrase for this, being "the magical exposition fairy" in which highly trained people, conversing with other highly trained people, feel the need to state, with authority, things that even the most rudimentarily educated person in that field would be aware of, under the assumption that most people who WATCH wouldn't be aware of because they're not professionals. One episode of "House" in particular when the patient, after several tests, was finally diagnosed with...GRAVE'S DISEASE!!! (OOOOH, scary!)

Except Grave's Disease is a fairly common thyroid problem, diagnosable with a pretty simple hormone check.

Law and Order is horrible about this. "Oh, someone died while he was committing a felony, we can charge him with felony murder!" No...really? You don't fucking say....that's brilliant you came up with that. Why don't we bring in a first year law student, let's get his perspective on this.
You're still bitter about the L&O thing, eh? :D

But I agree, the magical exposition fairy needs to die screaming. I got a very small chuckle from "Austin Powers" naming Michael York's character "Basil Exposition." Guess what his job was? "Basil Exposition" has been my name for the MEF for a while now.

I try to be tolerant of obvious plot devices if they are handled well, but there are a few that are NOT handled well but are handled badly so often it makes me want to go hunting screenwriters with dogs. My least favorites are:

1) The Mulligan: whereby the writers get a "do over" when they obviously wrote themselves into a corner so they whip out some insanely convenient device that we had no clue about before, but which is so major in impact it really should have been heavily foreshadowed, but which, as used, has nothing whatsoever to do with the plot. It serves no purpose but to erase the one mistake they made, and once it's been used, it vanishes without a trace. Somebody mentioned characters dying but not dying -- a Mulligan device is often what is used to bring them back from the grave. Mulligans also are used to undo something the writers only did in the first place for a cheap shot at emotion, but which they don't want to make permanent.

WARNING!!! THERE WILL BE NO SPOILER TAGS TO SAVE YOUR EYES. THE FOLLOWING EXAMPLE IS SO CRAPPY YOU SHOULD BE WARNED ABOUT IT.

Example: Just to convince myself it was really going to be over, I watched the series ending of Stargate: Atlantis, in which one of the main characters was killed in battle, only to be resurrected magically by the villains so they could beat him up some more, whereupon he was saved by the heroes, who I guess went back to make sure he was still dead, since they had no other reason in the plot to return to that area. And then he was okay and lived happily ever after with all his little friends. It made me want to mail puke to the writers. The Mulligan in that one was the villain's magic life/death in the palm of their hands thingie which was a major feature in the whole series but was mostly used as nothing but the cheapest, throw-away plot device.

2) The Very Necessary Thing: This is that one thing -- you know, that ONE THING without which nothing else can be done. The Magic Sword. The Special Glasses to Read the Secret Map With. The Scorpion King's Bracelet that projects just the precise ancient Egyptian hologram that you need to see at any point in the story, just when you need to see it. The High Tech Gadget that does everything you need it to do and never breaks, or if it does break, it miraculously fixes itself just when you need it to. Etc. The villain wants the VNT. The hero must get the VNT. Everybody covets the VNT. The whole story is just one big game of monkey in the middle for the VNT. If the bad guys get the VNT all hell will break loose. If the hero gets the VNT, he'll be able to save the world by doing just one thing with it. And even if the hero shouldn't use the VNT for his own purposes because it's Dangereuse, if he does use it just when he really, really needs to, it will do exactly whatever the plot requires at the moment to save his sorry ass.

Example. The Lord of the Fucking Goddamned Give Me a Break Already With Your Dumbass Ring. Need I say more?

3) The Sacrificial Pet, aka "This Dog Must Die" (credit: MST3K): This is the incredibly sweet, cute, harmless, adorable critter (or child, sidekick, or extra actor) who is going to be murdered only to demonstrate just how evilly evil the villain is, and who exists in the story for no other reason. Basically, it just idles about, acting cute, until its death scene comes up. Some times the Pet is sacrificed at the beginning to establish the villain's evilness. Other times -- worse times -- the Pet is kept hanging annoyingly around to build up an emotional bond with the audience and to establish the not-evilness of the hero by his cloying and questionable relationship with the Pet, only so that the Pet can be murdered near the end of Act 3, giving the hero an opportunity to bring the action to a grinding halt while he emotes about it. The longer the Pet is kept around, the more brutal its murder will be, which is fine by me, since it has been annoying me with its uselessness all that time.

There are too many examples of this for me to pick one off the top of my head at the moment. EDIT: I thought of one! The Rock's brother in Scorpion King. You know, the big Samoan guy who was supposed to be nearly as good a warrior as the Rock but still kind of the dopey brother and who was heinously murdered by the villain right before our heroes traumatized eyes? Right from the opening scene where he gets rescued from RPG Germans (apparently), and they share wry brotherly banter ("You're lucky we have the same mother." Wah-wah-wah), it was obvious the shadow of death was upon him. His name may as well have been ancient Akkadian for "Dead Dog Barking."

EDIT: 4) The Ticking Clock: Rereading the Very Necessary Thing reminded me of this one. The Ticking Clock device is when the entire story devolves into a race against the clock because if something isn't done with or about the Very Necessary Thing by a certain time A Bad Thing will happen. Naturally, the something that must be done cannot and will not be done until the very last possible moment before the Bad Thing would have occurred. As soon as that Clock starts ticking, you know you will not see a single surprise in the whole rest of the story -- and don't even dream of character development or relationship growth -- because the Clock is going to dictate absolutely everything that happens until the very, very end.

Example: The Mummy 2, in which that little brat with the VNT on his wrist has to get it off before a very particular moment or else he'll explode. Do I have to I tell you which way I was rooting on that one? (By the way, the Mummy 2 also used a Mulligan. Geez, that thing was a cop-out.)

The "spirits" were the spirits of dead aliens who fought an epic war. Watch the money. ok, so the sorcery part? the magic that I mentioned was part of all the FF games? Mysticism =|= Magic.

Spirit war. Swords and shit. so where was the 'swords and shit' in the movie. everyone had pulse rifles.

and some spirits, being 'disrupted' by energy weapons.

Neither FF VII nor VIII had occupation or jobs.for FFVII and FFVIII the class becomes apparent in their limit breaks.
Cloud is the Fighter
Barrett and Cid are the machinist (See Edgar FFVI)
Tiffa the monk
Aris the White mage
Cait Sith Gambler
Vincent and Red are the Blue mage


Squall is the fighter
Irvine, the machinest (see Edgar)
Riona is similar to Shadow (FF VI)
Selphie is the Red mage
Quistis the Blue mage
Zell the Monk... etc...

Maybe turn that cliche against itself and turn it into a good plot device for character devellopement. The first time the character sees a body, they scream in horror. The next time, they're just a bit startled, and perhaps disgusted. As the movie goes on, they become deadened to the loss of life. By the end of the movie they simply walk up to a bad guy, blow their head off, and stare callously down at the body without a trace of emotion. Or maybe it takes a particularily horrific or emotional death to finally elicite a response from them again.
CLUE! :p

after the fourth dead body, they're like. "oh... ok, another one there..."

for FFVII and FFVIII the class becomes apparent in their limit breaks.
Cloud is the Fighter
Barrett and Cid are the machinist (See Edgar FFVI)
Tiffa the monk
Aris the White mage
Cait Sith Gambler
Vincent and Red are the Blue mage

Squall is the fighter
Irvine, the machinest (see Edgar)
Riona is similar to Shadow (FF VI)
Selphie is the Red mage
Quistis the Blue mage
Zell the Monk... etc...
That's a bit simplistic for the sake of producing a favourable result.

That's a bit simplistic for the sake of producing a favourable result.

Are you guys really going on about this? Yeesh. Time spent better elsewhere, me thinks.

CLUE! :p

after the fourth dead body, they're like. "oh... ok, another one there..."

That guy doesn't matter. Let him stay locked up for another half an hour, the police will be here by then and there are two dead bodies in the study!!

Now it's your turn."Untrained kid turned epic hero within a month".

Are you guys really going on about this? Yeesh. Time spent better elsewhere, me thinks.

dude...where the fuck do you think you are exactly?

Are you guys really going on about this? Yeesh. Time spent better elsewhere, me thinks.Don't mess with the fanboy, dude. It'll eat you.dude...where the fuck do you think you are exactly?This. ^^

dude...where the fuck do you think you are exactly?

Debating philosophy, religion, and politics is one thing. Wasting your time in a heated internet battle over a Final Fantasy movie is completely different.

Don't mess with the fanboy, dude. It'll eat you.
This.^^ Just let them do their thing.

Law and Order is horrible about this. "Oh, someone died while he was committing a felony, we can charge him with felony murder!" No...really? You don't fucking say....that's brilliant you came up with that. Why don't we bring in a first year law student, let's get his perspective on this.
The point of most Law & Order episodes is drama, controversy, politics or an experienced actor (eg Robin Williams) being really cool and creepy, wrapped up in a whodunnit format. The legal issues/footwork are secondary and scribbled in just enough that the audience can follow while working through some beer and nachos with a couple friends.
And, guess what? Most people aren't professionals in your field. No, it's true, and strange, I know.

On a semi-related subject; has anybody watched Neil Simon's 'Murder By Death'?

"Untrained kid turned epic hero within a month".

Dear God I hate that... Some guy who can't use a gun, or can't fight, or use whatever the heck they use in the era they're in, and one movie/book mmonth later he's crossing swords/trading bullets with the enemies elite soldiers who train for years and years and he's WINNING!

Dear God I hate that... Some guy who can't use a gun, or can't fight, or use whatever the heck they use in the era they're in, and one movie/book mmonth later he's crossing swords/trading bullets with the enemies elite soldiers who train for years and years and he's WINNING!Oh, but don't you know? He's a natural with *insert weapon here*!

Debating philosophy, religion, and politics is one thing. Wasting your time in a heated internet battle over a Final Fantasy movie is completely different.

seriously? That's your argument? Seriously? This is a general board, for general topics, topics that interest the people who post in it. Who the fuck are you to decide what constitutes "wasting my time", child?

On a semi-related subject; has anybody watched Neil Simon's 'Murder By Death'?
The movie. Why?

The movie. Why?

I liked that movie. :)

On a semi-related subject; has anybody watched Neil Simon's 'Murder By Death'?
A couple of decades ago, yeah, I think so. Why do you ask? (That was the one with Peter Falk, right?)

And, guess what? Most people aren't professionals in your field. No, it's true, and strange, I know.

yes, I'm quite aware of that, that's why I said "under the assumption that most people who WATCH wouldn't be aware of because they're not professionals." Most people aren't lawyers and wouldn't notice mistakes about law that a lawyer would.

I, however, am. And it tends to give me a bit of an ironic chuckle when an assistant district attorney turns to another assistant district attorney and explains what the felony murder rule is.

Oh, but don't you know? He's a natural with *spatulas*!

-inserts random weapon-


Now that would be something to see. A movie where they fight with kitchen equipment.

"I'm going to beat you like an egg!!"

"Yeah? Well I happen to be a Master Baster!! Prepare to feel the wrath of my juices!!"

yes, I'm quite aware of that, that's why I said "under the assumption that most people who WATCH wouldn't be aware of because they're not professionals." Most people aren't lawyers and wouldn't notice mistakes about law that a lawyer would.

I, however, am. And it tends to give me a bit of an ironic chuckle when an assistant district attorney turns to another assistant district attorney and explains what the felony murder rule is.
I'm not a lawyer, but I can tell when characters who are supposedly experts on something are telling ME the information, rather than each other (even though they're not looking at me). ;)

On a semi-related subject; has anybody watched Neil Simon's 'Murder By Death'?

Look, voice come from cow on wall! MOOSE you imbecile, MOOSE!


is the. What is the meaning of this. Use your god damned pronouns!

-inserts random weapon-


Now that would be something to see. A movie where they fight with kitchen equipment.

"I'm going to beat you like an egg!!"

"Yeah? Well I happen to be a Master Baster!! Prepare to feel the wrath of my juices!!"But I'm Addicted to Curry! :p

yes, I'm quite aware of that, that's why I said "under the assumption that most people who WATCH wouldn't be aware of because they're not professionals." Most people aren't lawyers and wouldn't notice mistakes about law that a lawyer would.

I, however, am. And it tends to give me a bit of an ironic chuckle when an assistant district attorney turns to another assistant district attorney and explains what the felony murder rule is.
You might as well chuckle about how they never seem to notice that a new murder is committed every Tuesday night. And why do they strike those sill poses every week?
The zaniness, it overwhelms me.

Look, voice come from cow on wall! MOOSE you imbecile, MOOSE!


is the. What is the meaning of this. Use your god damned pronouns!

"One of us will be one million dollars richer, and one of us will be sent to the gas chamber to be hung!"

:D

Least favorite plot device: technobabble deus ex machina

(I'm looking at YOU, Star Trek. And to a lesser extent, Stargate.)

Babylon 5 and Battlestar Galactica proved that you can do a show about spaceships and such without having to save the day with resonance wave frequency modulation or the theoretical particle of the week every other damn episode.

Debating philosophy, religion, and politics is one thing. Wasting your time in a heated internet battle over a Final Fantasy movie is completely different.

Eh I dunno, I've gotten into debates before about the Matrix films and Matrix Online. Mainly about when the MxO Storyline doesn't sync up with what is Canon in the Matrix universe.

Least favorite plot device: technobabble deus ex machina

(I'm looking at YOU, Star Trek. And to a lesser extent, Stargate.)

Babylon 5 and Battlestar Galactica proved that you can do a show about spaceships and such without having to save the day with resonance wave frequency modulation or the theoretical particle of the week every other damn episode.

*bombards you with anti-protons til you take it back*

-inserts random weapon-


Now that would be something to see. A movie where they fight with kitchen equipment.

"I'm going to beat you like an egg!!"

"Yeah? Well I happen to be a Master Baster!! Prepare to feel the wrath of my juices!!"

That sounded so wrong. :tongue:

"Untrained kid turned epic hero within a month".

Such as Wesley Crusher

*bombards you with anti-protons til you take it back*

I see your anti-protons and raise you a subspace interference wave.

"One of us will be one million dollars richer, and one of us will be sent to the gas chamber to be hung!"

:D

How can you go wrong with a movie that has Peter Sellers, Alec Guinness and Truman fucking Capote?

Such as Wesley Crusher

Or Luke Skywalker.

I see your anti-protons and raise you a subspace interference wave.
Don't make me overcharge my hypergauge capacitors, you two. Cause you know I'll do it.

*bombards you with anti-protons til you take it back*

Be careful. He might counter by using his Fleggenheimer Collectors to store them, then reroute them through the Jackiemason Compensators, reverse their tri-polarity, and then use the hinge from Data's elbow to modify your keyboard to pee in your eye.

Don't make me overcharge my hypergauge capacitors, you two. Cause you know I'll do it.

My god...Fiddle's hypergauge capacitors have over 50 trillion femtofarads of hyper capacitance!

He'll capacitate us all!

I see your anti-protons and raise you a subspace interference wave.

*uses a phased particle burst from the main deflector dish to push you into mud*

You might as well chuckle about how they never seem to notice that a new murder is committed every Tuesday night.
Um...it's New York City. I don't understand how those ADAs get to concentrate on just ONE active murder case every Tuesday.

And why do they strike those sill poses every week?
The zaniness, it overwhelms me.
Yeah, pose-itis is an epidemic in tv-land. Just about every show, it's "And...REACTION SHOT! Cue commercial!" I think they shoot those things just because some of the actors get a certain number of close-ups written into their contracts. At least I can't think of any other reason why we have to watch the face of each and every character as the words just spoken crash into their brains.

Be careful. He might counter by using his Fleggenheimer Collectors to store them, then reroute them through the Jackiemason Compensators, reverse their tri-polarity, and then use the hinge from Data's elbow to modify your keyboard to pee in your eye.

I'm not afraid. My phasers are set to 'pie'. *nod*

*uses a phased particle burst from the main deflector dish to push you into mud*

Mud is actually the sloughed off skin of an ancient race that learned to bifarcate the evil from their sentience. It breathes at you, all gurgily and menacing.

Or Luke Skywalker.

Well what do you expect from the son of the immaculate midi-chlorian conception?

Oh wait. That's technobabble... DAMN YOU GEORGE LUCAS!!!

Don't make me overcharge my hypergauge capacitors, you two. Cause you know I'll do it.

That's alright. I'll just modify the deflector array to envelop myself with subspace interference until I phase away...

Be careful. He might counter by using his Fleggenheimer Collectors to store them, then reroute them through the Jackiemason Compensators, reverse their tri-polarity, and then use the hinge from Data's elbow to modify your keyboard to pee in your eye.

*ahem* That would require completely remodulating the positronic capacitors in his elbow. Easier just to use his toenails.

*uses a phased particle burst from the main deflector dish to push you into mud*

*uses the subspace transporter to beam the mud directly above LG's head*

*uses a phased particle burst from the main deflector dish to push you into mud*

Mud is actually the sloughed off skin of an ancient race that learned to bifarcate the evil from their sentience. It breathes at you, all gurgily and menacing.

Exactly, which means you have to die for posing in Playboy.

I'm not afraid. My phasers are set to 'pie'. *nod*

If you keep putting your phaser into people's pie, you're going to have more kids.

Imagine how bad the Star Trek seriesesesses will be when they're grown...

You might as well chuckle about how they never seem to notice that a new murder is committed every Tuesday night

That one doesn't bother me so much. He's the chief homicide prosecutor for Manhattan. One a week is pretty small.

There were no non-Human characters in FF VIII. I don't remember any in FF VII either. VIII didn't even have Chocobos.

1: Cait Sith. Red VIII. The Cetra (technically).

2: Yes it did. They just played a comparatively minor role.

Exactly, which means you have to die for posing in Playboy.

Yeah, I heard that's the same reason they killed Shatner in Generations.

*uses the subspace transporter to beam the mud directly above LG's head*

That's like attacking a fish with a squirtgun. :p

1: Cait Sith

2: Yes it did. They just played a comparatively minor role.

1. Cait Sith was controlled by a human.

2. I miss the chocobo races...

If you keep putting your phaser into people's pie, you're going to have more kids.

Imagine how bad the Star Trek seriesesesses will be when they're grown...

That's what Stargate is for. ;)

That's like attacking a fish with a squirtgun. :p

Maybe I like ya.

That's what Stargate is for. ;)

Oh, great, Stargate 2025: Neverland.

Maybe I like ya.

Yay! :fluffle:

Yay! :fluffle:

I said maybe damnit. Don't get all emotional.

Yeah, I heard that's the same reason they killed Shatner in Generations.

Damn you for putting that image in my head. *shudder*

I said maybe damnit. Don't get all emotional.

Great, now we're getting the Nolte/Murphy "tough guys start out hating one another, become friends, the one becomes alcholic and the other starts banging tranny hookers and doing Disney films" thing.

That one doesn't bother me so much. He's the chief homicide prosecutor for Manhattan. One a week is pretty small.
Um...it's New York City. I don't understand how those ADAs get to concentrate on just ONE active murder case every Tuesday.
I meant more along the lines of, "Isn't it convenient that nobody commits murders on a Saturday? These guys are so considerate to get it out the way in the beginning of the week."
Yeah, pose-itis is an epidemic in tv-land. Just about every show, it's "And...REACTION SHOT! Cue commercial!" I think they shoot those things just because some of the actors get a certain number of close-ups written into their contracts. At least I can't think of any other reason why we have to watch the face of each and every character as the words just spoken crash into their brains.
I always figured those shots were there to cue the audience that they can start heading to the kitchen and/or bathroom now. Sort of like shouting, "Take Five," only they use a giant picture of someone's head to do it. Although your theory makes more sense.

Great, now we're getting the Nolte/Murphy "tough guys start out hating one another, become friends, the one becomes alcholic and the other starts banging tranny hookers and doing Disney films" thing.

I'll take the alcohol. :)

My god...Fiddle's hypergauge capacitors have over 50 trillion femtofarads of hyper capacitance!

He'll capacitate us all!
OK, I have to cite one example of a Technobabble Plot Capacitor that I personally think was the absolute best usage of such a thing in the history of pop-culture and that item is:

The Interossiter

From "This Island Earth".

This is my favorite use of a plot device because the Interossiter -- which was a device that came in so many versions, there literally was nothing an Interrositer could not do, or rather, more accurately, nothing you might want to do that there wasn't an Interrositer for -- entered the story, and got the story rolling in the best possible way.

Our heroes, who were, I don't know, proto-NASA engineers or some such crap, send an order for some electrical machine part to their usual supplier. Only -- and here's the whole plot hinge here -- space aliens intercept the message and send them one of their own parts instead. And they include in the package a letter to the humans saying, "Enclosed please find a new model thingamawut. If you find this to your liking, we hope you will contact us for our full catalogue." (I'm not kidding.)

So, of course, the thingamawut is super-terrific, and they're like, "Let's get the catalogue." So they get the catalogue, and it's the new Interossiter catalogue. And they're like, "What's an Interossiter?" "I don't know. Let's order one."

And interplanetary hilarity ensues.

I'll take the alcohol. :)

No way you're leaving me with the tranny hookers.

No way you're leaving me with the tranny hookers.

I"ll take 'em if they're post-op.

<<

>>


what?

No way you're leaving me with the tranny hookers.

It's not them I have a problem with. It's the Disney films. :p

I"ll take 'em if they're post-op.
Rather an odd distinction, considering the fact that you don't know which way they're going. Unless you're just really turned on by surgery scars and hormone supplements . . .

I"ll take 'em if they're post-op.

<<

>>


what?

Completely reasonable. Some of the high end ones are quite nice.

It's not them I have a problem with. It's the Disney films. :p

I'll take the Disney films if I get to act with Charlie Sheen.

(Three Musketeers? Anyone? Anyone?)

You got the tranny hookers. We'll take turns being the alcoholic. I get Monday, wednesday, friday, and sunday, and you get tuesday, thursday, and saturday.

Rather an odd distinction, considering the fact that you don't know which way they're going. Unless you're just really turned on by surgery scars and hormone supplements . . .

Hm. You have a point. I assumed going M-->F because from what I've read that seems to be commonplace on the streets in Washington DC...

Completely reasonable. Some of the high end ones are quite nice.

Is that why they cost twice as much? :(

I'll take the Disney films if I get to act with Charlie Sheen.

(Three Musketeers? Anyone? Anyone?)

You got the tranny hookers. We'll take turns being the alcoholic. I get Monday, wednesday, friday, and sunday, and you get tuesday, thursday, and saturday.

Why do you get two drunk days in a row? :(

Anything involving the Netherlands.

And he Built C-3P0 and The force is just Midichlorians in your Blood!

lol


Star wars has a ton of them!

What Boba Fett, where, *hit jet pack causing him to fall into the pit*. Oh come on he is suppose to be the best bounty hunter ever??????

The force is not suppose to be explainable remember "the rock, the tree, all around you" kind of like faith only you are able to harness that power.

I don't believe it how could you

Yoda "that is why you fail..."



Mine was Episode 3 man what a disappointment. This is where the best known bad guy of the universe turns to the dark side. He did it for Love?

I mean they had something where we had just learned that the sand people had killed his mother. Okay I am with you, he snaps. He uses powers to kill just because he can. There should have been some thing where he was kicked out the Jedi, all that sacrifice, all that pain, all the loss he endured, all that gets pushed down and down and then explodes in rage.....That is the darth Vader I know.

Why do you get two drunk days in a row? :(

I was hoping by spreading them to opposite ends of the list you wouldn't notice.

Ok, how about this instead - I'll take odd days of the month, and you get even ones.

Is that why they cost twice as much? :(

Fucking a tranny is just like writing, breeding horses, or teaching. Its something you do for love. And most people will never make it profitable.

A Wizard Did It - No, wait, that was awesome in 8-bit Theatre. Never mind.

I was hoping by spreading them to opposite ends of the list you wouldn't notice.

Ok, how about this instead - I'll take odd days of the month, and you get even ones.

If I get Leap Day, you got a deal. :)

Fucking a tranny is just like writing, breeding horses, or teaching. Its something you do for love. And most people will never make it profitable.

I.... have no idea how to respond to that...
:hail:

Ok, how about this instead - I'll take odd days of the month, and you get even ones.
Oh ho ho. Thought you could slip another cheeky few days in, eh? Not as many days hath 30 days as 31, plus you get 2 in a row sometimes :eek2:

Couldn't you just do it for a week at a time each?

Fucking a tranny is just like writing, breeding horses, or teaching. Its something you do for love. And most people will never make it profitable.

I.... have no idea how to respond to that...
:hail:

It's life-altering wisdom that those bastards at Reader's Digest would never understand. *nod*

Oh ho ho. Thought you could slip another cheeky few days in, eh? Not as many days hath 30 days as 31, plus you get 2 in a row sometimes :eek2:

Couldn't you just do it for a week at a time each?

Stop ruining my plans!

If I get Leap Day, you got a deal. :)

Leap day is an odd day though... the 29th...

Leap day is an odd day though... the 29th...

Yes I know, but as you get so many more 31 day months, plus every New Year's Eve, I feel that I should at least get Leap Day, which is a beautiful day to spend drunk. *nod*

Yes I know, but as you get so many more 31 day months, plus every New Year's Eve, I feel that I should at least get Leap Day, which is a beautiful day to spend drunk. *nod*

You're quick buddy, no matter what Baldwin says about your intelligence.

You drive a hard bargain, but I agree to this plan.

Star trek was excellent for techno-babble.

A highly localized distortion of the space time continuum

Subspace anomaly

Subatomic fluctuations

Taciyon pulse

Anti-time?

http://www.spike.com/video/top-10-star-trek/3037527

You're quick buddy, no matter what Baldwin says about your intelligence.

You drive a hard bargain, but I agree to this plan.

Then we have an accord. *celebrates with a beer as it's still the 10th.* :D

You're quick buddy, no matter what Baldwin says about your intelligence.

You drive a hard bargain, but I agree to this plan.

I've never criticized LG's intelligence, I've criticized his intelligence.

So, Katganistan, Lunatic Goofballs, and me are sitting in a rented car in suburban Tehran.

Kat: So...we'll really find informants here?

LG: Yeah.

Me: This looks like a mosque.

LG: Yeah.

Kat: Loon, you told us this was an underground gay hookah lounge full of high ranking subversives that would give us all sorts of sensitive information about the Iranian nuclear initiative.

LG: Yeah. Its not, though. Its a mosque. But this was funnier.

Me: ....

Then we have an accord. *celebrates with a beer as it's still the 10th.* :D

In 45 minutes, it will be the 11th. Then it's my turn.

In 45 minutes, it will be the 11th. Then it's my turn.

Good thing we're in the same time zone, eh? ;)

In 45 minutes, it will be the 11th. Then it's my turn.

Of course, since you never specified a time zone, it's quite easy to say that it's your day somewhere, no mater the day.:tongue:

Good thing we're in the same time zone, eh? ;)

Yeah, but since I live in eastern time, my time would have been the logical one to go by anyway. More people live in my time zone than any other US time zone.

I've never criticized LG's intelligence, I've criticized his intelligence.

So, Katganistan, Lunatic Goofballs, and me are sitting in a rented car in suburban Tehran.

Kat: So...we'll really find informants here?

LG: Yeah.

Me: This looks like a mosque.

LG: Yeah.

Kat: Loon, you told us this was an underground gay hookah lounge full of high ranking subversives that would give us all sorts of sensitive information about the Iranian nuclear initiative.

LG: Yeah. Its not, though. Its a mosque. But this was funnier.

Me: ....

I was very disappointed when you took off the leather chaps instead of going in and asking to try their water pipes out. :(

In 45 minutes, it will be the 11th. Then it's my turn.

I'll tell you two something about Nick Nolte's drinking problem. Something that Christohper Walken told me.

"The man drinks. He takes glass...makes it a thing with alcohol in it, drinks it, becomes a thing with alcohol in it. Its...transmutative. Its different, like....like humping Barbara Streisand in the ass. She yells at you, while you're doing it. Unfriendly things. Bad things. But if you try to stop, she becomes even more threatening. Not just belligerent, or abrasive, like before, I mean really unfriendly. You just have to keep going.

That's what his drinking is like."

I was very disappointed when you took off the leather chaps instead of going in and asking to try their water pipes out. :(

See, this is why we don't have peace in the Middle East.

I'll tell you two something about Nick Nolte's drinking problem. Something that Christohper Walken told me.

"The man drinks. He takes glass...makes it a thing with alcohol in it, drinks it, becomes a thing with alcohol in it. Its...transmutative. Its different, like....like humping Barbara Streisand in the ass. She yells at you, while you're doing it. Unfriendly things. Bad things. But if you try to stop, she becomes even more threatening. Not just belligerent, or abrasive, like before, I mean really unfriendly. You just have to keep going.

That's what his drinking is like."

I actually heard his voice saying that in my head.

See, this is why we don't have peace in the Middle East.

They're so angry all the time. :(

They're so angry all the time. :(Told you you shouldn't have given their leaders that permanent wedgie.

Told you you shouldn't have given their leaders that permanent wedgie.

Semi-permanent. It'll clear automatically as soon as they complete the assigned task. *nod*

Edit: By the way, are we still on topic? I can't tell...

Semi-permanent. It'll clear automatically as soon as they complete the assigned task. *nod*

Edit: By the way, are we still on topic? I can't tell...We are, actually. The underlined part of your post is one of the most annoying plot devices ever. "This (We'll refer to it as A.) will effect you as long as X, Y, and Z are not done. When they're done, A will no longer affect you."

I actually heard his voice saying that in my head.
So did I. Now I'm afraid to go to sleep. I also heard the sound of a screaming yenta in the background. *traumatized*

I think Christopher Walken is becoming a plot device in actor form. Basically, if you want to inject something into a plot to spin it or interrupt it in a way that doesn't need to make sense, you just get Christopher Walken to do the scene.

Also, his skull was the Very Necessary Thing in "Sleepy Hollow."

We are, actually. The underlined part of your post is one of the most annoying plot devices ever. "This (We'll refer to it as A.) will effect you as long as X, Y, and Z are not done. When they're done, A will no longer affect you."
That device is often related to The Ticking Clock, too. Double annoying.

That device is often related to The Ticking Clock, too. Double annoying. You aren't kidding. "Time's running out! Gotta hurry, gotta hurry! What do you mean you need more time to train for the final battle to decide the fate of the country/world/universe? You'll do fine!"

It's really...annoying. I hate repeatedly using that word, but that's what it is.

You aren't kidding. "Time's running out! Gotta hurry, gotta hurry! What do you mean you need more time to train for the final battle to decide the fate of the country/world/universe? You'll do fine!"


It's not so bad when it's done well, like countdowns to threats in a hostage situation, which get accelerated when the good guys screw up. The problem is that they tend not to be done well.

Only on NSG could you start a thread about plot devices, and somehow it turns into a discussion about transsexuals.

The Super Friends moment:"We've only got one chance...(most bizarre set of circumstances is outlined)" which always always panned out exactly as planned.

I also found Marvel Comics' trend in the eighties annoying as hell-all these menaces no one had ever heard of before popped up with histories going back centuries, as if a 100+ years of failure was more interesting than just popping up fresh.

my least favorite plot devise is where all or most of the major challenges faced by the characters, depending entirely on being the result of one or more persons in positions of responsibility being totally clueless.

bad enough when it happens in a grade b movie, what makes it a grade b, or grade d-, as far as i'm concerned. what has really made this last 8 years especially miserable is seeing this, i never imagined i would, and i'm sure most other people never did either, seeing this happen in real life, with the outgoing american regime of mr shrubbery.

politics aside, and mr shrubbery not withstanding, it really totally ruins for me the otherwise gratification of suspension of disbelief.

It's not so bad when it's done well, like countdowns to threats in a hostage situation, which get accelerated when the good guys screw up. The problem is that they tend not to be done well.

Really, that's pretty much the case for most "bad" plot devices. They can be good if used well, but, well, Sturgeon's Law applies here.

Deus ex machina is the most fun to say, but the most obnoxious.

Also, 'hero gets shot in the shoulder' belongs on the list.

On a semi-related subject; has anybody watched Neil Simon's 'Murder By Death'?

Peter Sellers is fucking win.

i should have speicified, in serious drama, especially techno-sci-fantasy, the incompetent leader is made of exceedingly annoying fail: in humor and farce it's really the very core of wonderful.

but then that IS satirizing incompetence in high, or at least responsible places, which certainly deserves to be. yes, those peter sellers things, absolute win generally.

Ignorant parents in movies directed at young people.

Hip Black guys and moronic white guys.

The bad guys can never aim any weapon.

The killer stumbles or is momentarily stunned, and the one being chased, instead of taking advantage and pulping their pursuer's skull, just keeps running away.

The Force is basically an infection.

The lead in romantic comedies -- usually the guy -- does something so incredibly and obviously insensitive, and the woman leaves or breaks it off, and cue the pathos.

Too many to list.

The bad guys can never aim any weapon.Damn you, George Lucas!

Ignorant parents in movies directed at young people.

Ahh yea, the movies that enforce the ideas that parents are out of touch with today's youth and kids know more than they could ever possibly know!

Hip Black guys and moronic white guys.

Yea, but see, that's ok because it's not racist to make fun of white guys, but to make the black guy moronic, well you'll have Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton marching up and down on your ass.

The bad guys can never aim any weapon.

It's the helmets, you can barely see out of them!

The killer stumbles or is momentarily stunned, and the one being chased, instead of taking advantage and pulping their pursuer's skull, just keeps running away.

It could be a trap!

The Force is basically an infection.

It's like AIDS! It keeps on giving!

The lead in romantic comedies -- usually the guy -- does something so incredibly and obviously insensitive, and the woman leaves or breaks it off, and cue the pathos.

and then the guy does something extreme and romantic to prove his love to the woman (despite the fact that in most Romantic Comedy, they've only known each other for 10 days) and she is swooned, they get married and somehow they end up happily together forever.

I particularly hate Biblical cheat plots.

The ones where the deus ex machina turns out to be Jesus. Also, anything where anyone named Jesus has a bit part or guest appearance (as carpenter/lowly handyman/travelling songwriter-folksinger) shortly after which the main character is cured/has a child/loses the battle but wins the war -- the war within.

Or where the characters just coincidentally happen to be called Mary and Joseph, and she's pregnant, and there's a big football game/floral festival/rock concert in the town they've just reached so there's nowhere to stay but the local park.

The space ship explodes and only two crew members escape to the untouched planet below, and right at the end (after she's removed her contraceptive implant in a bit of unanaesthetised self-surgery) we discover that the first names of Doctor Newton and Commander Borovitz are Eva and Adamus.

Brothers Kayne and Ahbell battle for control of a huge company.

Unbelievably, comically terrible things happen to a cute little janitor named Joe B.

Rock musician Joshua J. Jones brings down the (figurative) walls of evil conglomerate music company Jerry Co with just one blast of his New Sound.

And let's not script the Heroines of the Bible; Esther, Ruth, we know where you're going with that.

Also, New Age variants where the only thing changed is the faith that sustains the main character; often, but not invariably, Wicca.

Let's not forget deep dark totally secret conspiracies who leave evidence where any idiot can get to it, and then cannot knock off said idiot despite a history of accomplishing just this on supposedly competent people...

Why do all the competent people in horror movies die????

It defies logic!

"It was all a dream" and its bastard children.

That was used to good effect in an episode of The Twilight Zone. The Earth was heading towards the sun and everyone was dying etc, she faints then wakes up. She's with a doctor, and she tells him that she dreamt everything was really hot. He says "I wish it was", then starts talking to her roommate about how they say in 3 weeks the country will be uninhabitable etc, he's off to Miami and the camera pans outside and there's snow everywhere. I thought that was quite good.

I can't stand the plot device whereby the aliens were on earth along.

Fucking mental.

Pops up in Halo, Resistance: Fall of Man, the latest War of the Worlds and innumerable others. Probably only used once effectively.

I'll tell you two something about Nick Nolte's drinking problem. Something that Christohper Walken told me.

"The man drinks. He takes glass...makes it a thing with alcohol in it, drinks it, becomes a thing with alcohol in it. Its...transmutative. Its different, like....like humping Barbara Streisand in the ass. She yells at you, while you're doing it. Unfriendly things. Bad things. But if you try to stop, she becomes even more threatening. Not just belligerent, or abrasive, like before, I mean really unfriendly. You just have to keep going.

That's what his drinking is like."
:hail:Never leave this forum:fluffle:

I always hate the one where there is the twin brother and sister who are connected to the point where one gets injured/killed and the twin suffers the injury/death at the same time.

Something that Christohper Walken told me.

It is you, Hammurab!

It is you, Hammurab!

You actually doubted that?

You actually doubted that?

I wasn't 100% percent sure, mainly because he said that he was gone for good the most recent time he left.

"Oh, noes this Hostage/Columbian Drug Lord/Crazy MoFo Bomber/Cyber Terrorist is actually thieving all our money."

I wasn't 100% percent sure, mainly because he said that he was gone for good the most recent time he left.

Which reminds me, I was never fond of the plot device where someone is gone forever and they come back in a disguise, but it is so obvious to you they are the same person but none of the characters seem to connect the dots.

That was used to good effect in an episode of The Twilight Zone. The Earth was heading towards the sun and everyone was dying etc, she faints then wakes up. She's with a doctor, and she tells him that she dreamt everything was really hot. He says "I wish it was", then starts talking to her roommate about how they say in 3 weeks the country will be uninhabitable etc, he's off to Miami and the camera pans outside and there's snow everywhere. I thought that was quite good.
Most of the things mentioned in this thread (plot devices, transsexuals and alcoholics) can be used to good effect by someone who knows what they're doing. Sometimes they're not, though, and that is unimpressive.
Also, 'hero gets shot in the shoulder' belongs on the list.
Or the leg. There are a lot of large veins and such in your leg, if you get shot there you will gush a lot of blood and then die. Not limp around stage for a few minutes.

Poliwannacraca has the best phrase for this, being "the magical exposition fairy" in which highly trained people, conversing with other highly trained people, feel the need to state, with authority, things that even the most rudimentarily educated person in that field would be aware of, under the assumption that most people who WATCH wouldn't be aware of because they're not professionals.


Or, even better, the "As you know, I am the President"


The lead in romantic comedies -- usually the guy -- does something so incredibly and obviously insensitive, and the woman leaves or breaks it off, and cue the pathos.


"OMG, you threw shit in my eye"
"I thought you'd like it"
"WTF get out!"
....
....
"...Maybe I shouldn't have thrown shit in her eye?
...I've got to make it up to her somehow...
.....
...
I got you a tissue to wipe the shit out of your eye"
"OMG - a tissue!? I love you! Let's live happily ever after!"

A massive kick in the ladyparts to women everywhere.

It is you, Hammurab!

Jhann if you wan to talk about his original incarnaton. But yes.

my least favorite plot devise is where all or most of the major challenges faced by the characters, depending entirely on being the result of one or more persons in positions of responsibility being totally clueless.

Gods, yes, this.^^ Stupid Boss Syndrome, upon which the entire plot hinges. I can't stand that. I mean, I really can't stand it. But I guess I can't stand it slightly less than the people worked for FEMA under the leadership of "Heckuva Job Brownie". That must have been one of those "Am I going insane? I'm trapped in a shitty movie plot!" hell-trips. As you say, it sucks worse when it's real.

Why do all the competent people in horror movies die????

It defies logic!
A corrollary to Stupid Boss Syndrome. I guess it must be easier to write a story if all the characters are so fucking stupid, they'll do just about anything without even wondering if it makes sense.

"What was that noise? Is it the psycho cannibal slasher killer come to get us -- again?"

"I don't know. You stay here by yourself, while I go out alone in the dark to check it out."

Or

"Hey, look at our brand new house. The walls are bleeding, the cellar is full of heaving masses of maggots from which blood-curdling voices arise saying unkind things, and every time I use the upstairs bathroom, ghostly knives fly out of the toilet and up my ass. But we paid for it, so it's Our Home now. We'll have to stay. And we'll all have to sleep alone in our rooms, too, because, you know, there are starving children in China who would be glad to have those rooms, even with the man-eating clown dolls under the beds."

No. No, I actually think not. I think you can go check into a motel where you can all sleep together until the exorcists and real estate agents are done off-loading that white elephant of house for you.


Or the leg. There are a lot of large veins and such in your leg, if you get shot there you will gush a lot of blood and then die. Not limp around stage for a few minutes.
'Tis but a scratch.

"Hey, look at our brand new house. The walls are bleeding, the cellar is full of heaving masses of maggots from which blood-curdling voices arise saying unkind things, and every time I use the upstairs bathroom, ghostly knives fly out of the toilet and up my ass. But we paid for it, so it's Our Home now. We'll have to stay. And we'll all have to sleep alone in our rooms, too, because, you know, there are starving children in China who would be glad to have those rooms, even with the man-eating clown dolls under the beds."


I love you Mur, I lol'd.:p

'Tis but a scratch.That movie was really, really bad, but it was still funny as hell. :D

Not sure if they've been mentioned, but here are two that really piss me off.

First the "reset button", wherein an excuse is contrived to ignore changes that have occurred over the course of a book/movie/episode/whatever, and restore things to the status quo. Very popular with ball-less episodic TV series. Saves writers (and executives) from having to develop new ideas, hire new actors, or risk losing a fan base by changing the formula. One variation is to simply have little or no episode-to-episode continuity. This can work well for situational comedy or satirical shows like South Park/The Simpsons, which rely heavily on throwing their characters into various insane situations depending on the point/joke they are trying to make.

Second, the technobabble plot resolution. This is a favorite of science fiction, and has its fantasy equivalent in what I like to call "spellobable". Basically it tends to involve building up a complex or impossibly bad situation in the plot, and then resolving it not through logic or character development or even random chance, but through some tacked on bullshit gimicky device or trick (which is generally poorly thought out or explained). I imagine that this technique relies a great deal on ideas like "its just science fiction, so it doesn't have to make sense," thereby lowering the respectability of the genre by making it easier to dismiss as lowbrow entertainment only, and insulting the audience's cognitive capabilities.

Note: Star Trek is an especially grievous offender on both counts, and the two often go hand in hand. The resolution of the Harry Potter series is also a potential example of technobabble, or in this case, spellobable.

'Tis but a scratch.
How are you even typing? Your arm's off!

Not sure if they've been mentioned, but here are two that really piss me off.

First the "reset button", wherein an excuse is contrived to ignore changes that have occurred over the course of a book/movie/episode/whatever, and restore things to the status quo. Very popular with ball-less episodic TV series. Saves writers (and executives) from having to develop new ideas, hire new actors, or risk losing a fan base by changing the formula. One variation is to simply have little or no episode-to-episode continuity. This can work well for situational comedy or satirical shows like South Park/The Simpsons, which rely heavily on throwing their characters into various insane situations depending on the point/joke they are trying to make.

Second, the technobabble plot resolution. This is a favorite of science fiction, and has its fantasy equivalent in what I like to call "spellobable". Basically it tends to involve building up a complex or impossibly bad situation in the plot, and then resolving it not through logic or character development or even random chance, but through some tacked on bullshit gimicky device or trick (which is generally poorly thought out or explained). I imagine that this technique relies a great deal on ideas like "its just science fiction, so it doesn't have to make sense," thereby lowering the respectability of the genre by making it easier to dismiss as lowbrow entertainment only, and insulting the audience's cognitive capabilities.

Note: Star Trek is an especially grievous offender on both counts, and the two often go hand in hand.

For this quote I must refer you to this song by Voltaire, titled The USS Make Shit Up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2v6rXs5J9M

Or the leg. There are a lot of large veins and such in your leg, if you get shot there you will gush a lot of blood and then die. Not limp around stage for a few minutes.

A shot to the inside of the thigh will leave you bleeding to death in short order I believe.

Now that would be something to see. A movie where they fight with kitchen equipment.

"I'm going to beat you like an egg!!"

"Yeah? Well I happen to be a Master Baster!! Prepare to feel the wrath of my juices!!"

close enough? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LbWWx80ZPA)

Black cops 1 week away from retirement.
Just shoot them as soon as they appear to save time.

Black cops 1 week away from retirement.
Just shoot them as soon as they appear to save time.

Oh yeah... the old "Black guy always dies" twist. I hate that one...

Black cops 1 week away from retirement.
Just shoot them as soon as they appear to save time.
Not just blacks, and not just cops. During the 80's it became a geometrically expressible formula that the closer one was to retirement from anything, the higher the chance that at any given moment there was a bullet traveling in their direction.
Fortunately, that particular convention has been parodied so much that it is almost never used seriously anymore (although that makes the parodies themselves rather annoying).

Most of the time, in fact, when parody is used as a plot device, it is a major turn off. X is happening here because it is like that time X^-1 happened in that other show/movie/story/song. Don't you get it? Isn't it whimsical and hilarious?
No, it fucking isn't.

That movie was really, really bad, but it was still funny as hell. :D
What! That movie was brilliant! :mad:

How are you even typing? Your arm's off!
No it isn't. :p

No it isn't. :p

What are you going to do bleed on me?

What are you going to do bleed on me?
I am invincible!! *hops about ineffectually*

Oh yeah... the old "Black guy always dies" twist. I hate that one...
The worse would have to be Jurassic Park. At the start when they're unloading the beasties there's a ring of men around the crates - and only one of them is Black.
No prizes for guessing which one is eaten.

And when you add up the body count in that movie you end up with 4: One Lawyer, one Fatso and 2 Blacks (other Black being a janitor of course).

What does this tell us of Spielberg's opinions towards these distinct groups...

The worse would have to be Jurassic Park. At the start when they're unloading the beasties there's a ring of men around the crates - and only one of them is Black.
No prizes for guessing which one is eaten.

And when you add up the body count in that movie you end up with 4: One Lawyer, one Fatso and 2 Blacks (other Black being a janitor of course).

What does this tell us of Spielberg's opinions towards these distinct groups...
I am so not going to say the thought that popped into my head. He likes dark meat.

I am invincible!! *hops about ineffectually*

You're a loony.

The worse would have to be Jurassic Park. At the start when they're unloading the beasties there's a ring of men around the crates - and only one of them is Black.
No prizes for guessing which one is eaten.

And when you add up the body count in that movie you end up with 4: One Lawyer, one Fatso and 2 Blacks (other Black being a janitor of course).

What does this tell us of Spielberg's opinions towards these distinct groups...

We all know spielberg hates black people. That's why the only black person in E.T. is the midget they stuffed in that suit.

What! That movie was brilliant! :mad:Sorry, I loved the movie for it's awesome humor, but the reason it was funny was because it was so hilariously bad.

It's almost as bad as Starship Troopers. (And I had to watch that movie twice, just to make sure it was really that bad.) :D

You're a loony.
Oh, running away, eh? Come back here, you yellow bastard! I'll bite your bloody legs off! *fades from movie*

Sorry, I loved the movie for it's awesome humor, but the reason it was funny was because it was so hilariously bad.

It's almost as bad as Starship Troopers. (And I had to watch that movie twice, just to make sure it was really that bad.) :D
Sorry, but you clearly have all your taste in your mouth. Monty Python and the Holy Grail was a good movie. Not a bad one. A good one. You know one big clue that it was good? It was a comedy and...you laughed as a result of its "awesome humor" which was kind of the whole point of it and the bulk of its content.

EDIT: On the other hand Starship Troopers totally sucked.

Sorry, but you clearly have all your taste in your mouth. Monty Python and the Holy Grail was a good movie. Not a bad one. A good one. You know one big clue that it was good? It was a comedy and...you laughed as a result of its "awesome humor" which was kind of the whole point of it and the bulk of its content.Yes, I suppose you're right. ;)

Yes, I suppose you're right. ;)
Damn straight you suppose so. *struts about ineffectually* :p

Damn straight you suppose so. *struts about ineffectually* :pDamn, if only you were a male. (http://www.seligorscastle.zoomshare.com/files/elves_and_icicles/White_Peacock.gif) ;)

I hope that is the last time I ever see someone compare Monty Python and the Holy Grail to Starship Troopers...

We all know spielberg hates black people. That's why the only black person in E.T. is the midget they stuffed in that suit.
That was Gary Coleman was it not?

That was Gary Coleman was it not?

That would be tragic.

We all know spielberg hates black people.*kicks a rock, tugs Mr Spielberg's sleeve* Why do you hate black people, Mr. Spielberg? :(

That was Gary Coleman was it not?

No Gary Coleman wasn't in E.T.

Damn, if only you were a male. (http://www.seligorscastle.zoomshare.com/files/elves_and_icicles/White_Peacock.gif) ;)
Holy crap! I just got a total brain-screw overdose on new-age, ooh-a-fairy, nature-is-sparkly-let's-hit-the-crystals-and-tarot-card-shop potentialities. Don't do that again.

..and no black people in any of the indiana jones movies, and if they were in it, they were either slaves or enemies.

Holy crap! I just got a total brain-screw overdose on new-age, ooh-a-fairy, nature-is-sparkly-let's-hit-the-crystals-and-tarot-card-shop potentialities. Don't do that again.I'm young, you should know better. :tongue:

That would be tragic.
tragically hilarious.

tragically hilarious.

I want to phone home fool!

..and no black people in any of the indiana jones movies, and if they were in it, they were either slaves or enemies.

There were few lawyers or fat people in them either.

twould appear that Speilberg and Mel Gibson have more than a few things in common.
"I hate Jews! And the English!"
"Oh yeah? Well I hate Blacks! And Lawyers! And Fat people! Beat that!"

There were few lawyers or fat people in them either.

twould appear that Speilberg and Mel Gibson have more than a few things in common.
"I hate Jews! And the English!"
"Oh yeah? Well I hate Blacks! And Lawyers! And Fat people! Beat that!"

Spielberg also hates Stanley Kubrick, I mean did you see A.I.?

I want to phone home fool!
That sounds more Mr T than Gary Coleman. surely it would have been, "Whacha talkin' bout? I wanna phone home!"

Mr T as ET: Mr ET.
It works on so many levels.

Had they cast him as the alien, it would have made that movie greater than Citizen Kane.

That sounds more Mr T than Gary Coleman. surely it would have been, "Whacha talkin' bout? I wanna phone home!"

Mr T as ET: Mr ET.
It works on so many levels.

Had they cast him as the alien, it would have made that movie greater than Citizen Kane.

It would also expain E.T.'s drinking problem.

Spielberg also hates Stanley Kubrick, I mean did you see A.I.?
Unfortunately yes I did. One of my biggest regrets is not switching it off at the point in the film where Hayley's stuck under water unable to get to the Blue Fairy.

Unfortunately yes I did. One of my biggest regrets is not switching it off at the point in the film where Hayley's stuck under water unable to get to the Blue Fairy.

My biggest regret is watching the film, period.

The worse would have to be Jurassic Park. At the start when they're unloading the beasties there's a ring of men around the crates - and only one of them is Black.
No prizes for guessing which one is eaten.

And when you add up the body count in that movie you end up with 4: One Lawyer, one Fatso and 2 Blacks (other Black being a janitor of course).

What does this tell us of Spielberg's opinions towards these distinct groups...

God, looks like another PC hack who analyses movies looking for racism to get worked up about.:rolleyes:

In any case, the macho white hunter died too. Though maybe that's because Spielberg's a Dirty Liberal who hates macho white hunters.;)

God, looks like another PC hack who analyses movies looking for racism to get worked up about.:rolleyes:

In any case, the macho white hunter died too. Though maybe that's because Spielberg's a Dirty Liberal who hates macho white hunters.;)

I mean you didn't see ONE black person in schindlers list either...:p

My biggest regret is watching the film, period.

that too. I was being generous to it - viewing it as a sappy Spielberg mind-candy. Until the end with the aliens.
the first review of it on IMDB sums it up for me:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0212720/usercomments?filter=hate

that too. I was being generous to it - viewing it as a sappy Spielberg mind-candy. Until the end with the aliens.
the first review of it on IMDB sums it up for me:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0212720/usercomments?filter=hate

honestly this line from the 2nd review sums it up for me

Ahhh, AI. 2 hours of Spielberg pissing on Kubrick's grave.