NationStates Jolt Archive

Ah, that evil "returing a child to his parent" family values and obeying the laws of the land thing. :eek: Gotcha.

But I don't recall Colin Powell taking a position regarding Elian.

But Powell is endorsing Barack Obama, who is a Democrat. And that nasty, filthy Slick Willy Clinton who put Poor Little Elian back with his evil father in Castroland is a Democrat as well. Which is why Miami Shores voted for Dear Leader twice and is proud of it.

Which makes Colin Powell a Commie-Loving Traitor by MS's litmus test.

But Powell is endorsing Barack Obama, who is a Democrat. And that nasty, filthy Slick Willy Clinton who put Poor Little Elian back with his evil father in Castroland is a Democrat as well. Which is why Miami Shores voted for Dear Leader twice and is proud of it.

Which makes Colin Powell a Commie-Loving Traitor by MS's litmus test.

I thought you were kidding or at least wildly exaggerating.

Apparently, you weren't. See, e.g., link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13969495&postcount=657), link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13883128&postcount=111)

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Still hard to respect the man born into a poor black family in Harlem who dragged himself up by his bootstraps to become one of the most respected generals in the world since World War Two, and became the first ever black Chairman of the Joint Chiefs (as well as the youngest)?

No...still very easy to respect him. He may have screwed up, but the Powell doctrine wasn't flawed-the Bush Doctrine is. He just gets the rap because everyone remembers him at the UN.

Also, I find it amusing that the majority of blacks in the U.S. are democrats, but it was the Democrats who tried to keep them as slaves back in the 1860's...:tongue:

You've already defended this as kidding, but just in case, yeah, no. Things change. Remember when the Republicans were for smaller government and balanced budgets?

I See you have been at the Daily Kos.nice talking points,facts is Obama knew what Ayers was,he was a domestic terrorist,the weather underground,and took him as a freind anyway,Ayers is a marxist revoltionary,he will tell you so,funny how the Obama supporters tell you that the past is irrelevant,when they in 2000 tried to use Presient Bush's DWI record 20 years from the time to try to sink Bush.

Hypocracy pure and simple.

Difference being that Obama met Ayers as a kid. Bush was driving drunk until age 40.

Forgot the L sue me,having too much fun with the Obama drones

I love how anyone who asks you to back up your ludicrous claims is a drone and yet you're not -- despite pulling Right-radio's talking points out of your ass.

Just'a good ol' boys
Never meanin' no harm.
Beats all you never saw
Been in trouble with the law
Since the day they was born

Staightnin' the curves
Flatnin the hills
Someday the mountain might get 'em
But the law never will

Makin' their way
The only way they know how
That's just a little bit more
Than the law will allow.

Ry Cooder. Simplicity in song is terrific, and he was a master craftsman.

The following is from a partial transcript of the Oct. 19, 2008, edition of "FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace" (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,440632,00.html):

WALLACE: And we're back now on the campaign trail in the battleground state of Ohio with our exclusive guest, Senator John McCain.

Senator, on another Sunday talk show, General Colin Powell has just said that he's going to vote for Barack Obama. He says he meets the standard of being a successful president.

He says that Senator McCain is unsure about how to deal with the economy, and he does not feel that Sarah Palin is ready to be commander in chief. Your reaction?

MCCAIN: Well, I've always admired and respected General Powell. We're longtime friends. This doesn't come as a surprise.

But I'm also very pleased to have the endorsement of four former secretaries of state, Secretaries Kissinger, Baker, Eagleburger and Haig. And I'm proud to have the endorsement of well over 200 retired Army generals and admirals.

But I respect and continue to respect and admire Secretary Powell.

WALLACE: Just briefly, though, one of the key lines of your campaign has been that Obama's not ready to lead. Here is Colin Powell saying he is.

MCCAIN: Well, again, we have a very — we have a respectful disagreement, and I think the American people will pay close attention to our message for the future and keeping America secure.

Even McCain can't bring himself to smear Powell. I guess that means surrogates will have to do it. :p

You mean like BrightonBurg?

Wow, the black guy,endorses the black guy for Prez. stop the fucking presses here,sorta like water is wet,dog bites mail man ect, Obama is going to get 97% of the black vote, so whats the story here? really?

Right, because black people will just vote for black people 100% of the time. How'd that work for Jessie Jackson? How about Al Sharpton? Oh lookie, just shot your argument into Swiss shit. It's also quite myopic of you to be unable to recognize the importance of Powell as a HUMAN BEING. He clearly supported GWB in the last election considering he stayed on until after the election.
What is that, the black guy endorsing the white guy? I mean come on... We all know black guys love to endorse white guys.

I thought you were kidding or at least wildly exaggerating.

Apparently, you weren't. See, e.g., link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13969495&postcount=657), link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13883128&postcount=111)

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Observations couched in snarky or comedic commentary, fresh from the keyboard.

Ahhh! Now we're getting somewhere! See, first(after the flame) you attempt to deflect from the point and shift tracks, that there is still no connection between the police officer killed in that bank robbery by anti-war activists turned thieves and Weather Underground. Then you rail against the press who must have the most well-trained psychics in existence to sanitize 38 years of news to prepare for the arrival of The One. And you follow it up by trying to pigeonhole me as a leftist and Obama supporter when I already stated quite clearly that I am NOT voting for Barack Obama.

It won't work. Let's get back to the subject: Please show some proof that the killers of that policeman were members of a splinter group of the Weather Underground as you have claimed. I will give you a fresh baked muffin if you can.

And this would be why you don't mess with LG
lol
:D

And this would be why you don't mess with LG
lol
:D

*munches on a muffin* ;)

*munches on a muffin* ;)Be fair, he did say he needed to go offline several posts before he did. Save the muffin for later (like until it's stale enough to be used as a ranged weapon).

Be fair, he did say he needed to go offline several posts before he did. Save the muffin for later (like until it's stale enough to be used as a ranged weapon).

This is LG we're talking about. His muffins come out as ranged weapons fresh from the oven. In some cases, they're self launching, self guided weapons.

This is LG we're talking about. His muffins come out as ranged weapons fresh from the oven. In some cases, they're self launching, self guided weapons.
I'd wager they're more dangerous once they're stale =P

I'd wager they're more dangerous once they're stale =P

Hard to tell when they grow stale. Anything that comes out of LG's oven tends to bend space time.

Hard to tell when they grow stale. Anything that comes out of LG's oven tends to bend space time.

I'd say they actually go fresh.

But really the muffins are both stale and fresh until you open the muffin. They're quantum, you see.

I'd say they actually go fresh.

But really the muffins are both stale and fresh until you open the muffin. They're quantum, you see.

Quantum Blueberry. *nod*

Quantum Blueberry. *nod*

The Betty Crocker Uncertainty Principle *double nod*

Difference being that Obama met Ayers as a kid.
No, Obama never heard of Ayers as a kid. He never met Ayers until decades later, and did not at first hear anything about Ayers' past, although of course he did learn about it eventually.

I am so very happy that Powell Did this. I was shocked and appalled at the whole UN thing on the lead up to the war with Iraq, which made me lose a lot of respect for Powell, but I still think that he has a lot of credibility in the eyes of many no matter what their political stripe.

I think he would make an excellent advisor to Obama, who I trust would not abuse Powell's trust like the Bush administration did.

Most endorsements mean very little in the eyes of the masses, but I think that this one transcends that. This is huge and is getting a lot of attention because it deserves it. I don't think there is another Republican out there that could have the effect that the Powell endorsement has had.

Bravo!

I don't think there is another Republican out there that could have the effect that the Powell endorsement has had. Well, there's McCain...

Well, there's McCain...

good point :hail:

And Condaleeza.......

Im unimpressed by this endorsement.
its clearly based on race.
and seriously, i expected better from them both.

Im unimpressed by this endorsement.
its clearly based on race.
and seriously, i expected better from them both.

Right, which is why Colin Powell was silent on Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton's campaign run.

:rolleyes:

NSG is unimpressed by this copycat trolling. Seriously, we expected better.

And Condaleeza.......


I personally doubt her endorsement would matter much.

I didn't even read the other posts you know, just the original.
Well the fact is neither of those two ever got the nomination before, and you can go find their policies, powell's and obama's, they don't agree on a single issue.
Its based on race.
I am unimpressed at your attempt at humor too, trying to start a flame war by calling someone a troll then trying and failure to cut off a funny remark is frankly noobish.
Go watch his endorsement video, listen to what he says, then come back and tell me its not about race.

Im unimpressed by this endorsement.
its clearly based on race.
and seriously, i expected better from them both.

It has nothing to do with race. If it has to do with race Powell would never have been a republican. It has to do with a personal disenfranciement Powell must feel towards the republican party after the debacle he had as a member of the Bush administration. It is a personal political move that has nothing to do with race.

Also claimming this endorsement is purely race motivated, and not claiming all white people endorsing Mcain is race motivated is a double standard.

It has nothing to do with race. If it has to do with race Powell would never have been a republican. It has to do with a personal disenfranciement Powell must feel towards the republican party after the debacle he had as a member of the Bush administration. It is a personal political move that has nothing to do with race.

Also claimming this endorsement is purely race motivated, and not claiming all white people endorsing Mcain is race motivated is a double standard.

Well, yes.
It is a double standard.
Thats how it works, they've never had a black president, so naturally race is going to be a factor in any endorsement.
Its unavoidable.
Especially in a country like the USA. I fully support Obama this election, i just know if he and his campaigners do stuff like this all the time they will lose their lead.
Even IF it wasn't motivated by race they damn sure knew everyone was going to say it, its a bad move on his part.

Im unimpressed by this endorsement.
its clearly based on race.
and seriously, i expected better from them both.
better from which both?

its not like mccain doesnt have severe problems that anyone might feel disqualifies him for an endorsement.

I didn't even read the other posts you know, just the original.
Well the fact is neither of those two ever got the nomination before, and you can go find their policies, powell's and obama's, they don't agree on a single issue.
Its based on race.
I am unimpressed at your attempt at humor too, trying to start a flame war by calling someone a troll then trying and failure to cut off a funny remark is frankly noobish.
Go watch his endorsement video, listen to what he says, then come back and tell me its not about race.

Watched it... I didn't see anything about race mentioned. I did hear him give very plausible explanations as to why he was going for Obama though. Maybe you could point out where race was mentioned as a factor in his endorsement. Or perhaps you could point to Powells history of supporting black people over white people in any circumstance that would support your hypothesis.

better from which both?

its not like mccain doesnt have severe problems that anyone might feel disqualifies him for an endorsement.

I know, he's a prat.
But a republican who disagree's with the person he is endorsing on every campaign issue, and happens to be the same race.
can you honestly tell me race didn't factor into it, considering this is the first chance the USA has had at a US president being black, and if he fails this, it'll be a long time before the democrats try it again.

I personally doubt her endorsement would matter much.

In fact, it might even hurt him. For every Republican he picked up, he'd lose three Democrats.

Watched it... I didn't see anything about race mentioned. I did hear him give very plausible explanations as to why he was going for Obama though. Maybe you could point out where race was mentioned as a factor in his endorsement. Or perhaps you could point to Powells history of supporting black people over white people in any circumstance that would support your hypothesis.

Are you honestly trying to say race didn't factor into this?

Im unimpressed by this endorsement.
its clearly based on race.
and seriously, i expected better from them both.

Of course it was. I mean so was the endorsement of McCain by Bush, right? And every other time a white person endorsed McCain?

Of course it was. I mean so was the endorsement of McCain by Bush, right? And every other time a white person endorsed McCain?

There have been plenty of white presidents.
There will be plenty more, the next president after obama will, likely, be white.

If obama loses this election, there won't be a black president for perhaps another 20 years.

There is a major difference


ADDITION:
Your over simplification of the issue is quite frankly doing your arguement no credit

Are you honestly trying to say race didn't factor into this?

Yes. Now, you can perhaps point me to your proof beyond the skin color of the endorsee.

Are you honestly trying to say race didn't factor into this?

Yes. It would not have surprised me if Powell endorsed Hillary Clinton at this point if she were the democratic canidate. Powell has been drifting away from the republican party since he left the Bush administration. To me it seems as a personal hahaha I am going to get back at you for what you did to me, and not race motivated. Unfortuanetly many people will see it as a racial move.

Are you honestly trying to say race didn't factor into this?

Are you honestly going to say that race didn't factor into your assumption that race was a factor?

Well, yes.
It is a double standard.
Thats how it works, they've never had a black president, so naturally race is going to be a factor in any endorsement.
Its unavoidable.
Especially in a country like the USA. I fully support Obama this election, i just know if he and his campaigners do stuff like this all the time they will lose their lead.
Even IF it wasn't motivated by race they damn sure knew everyone was going to say it, its a bad move on his part.

You know I usually avoid this accusation, but everything about your post is racist.

It's absurd to suggest that people can't endorse Obama unless it's about race. Some people actual think there is an importance to the position. The administration and those that support them, *ahem* McCain, mistreated Powell and, beyond that, demonstrated that they do not have the interests of our country at the heart of their politics.

Yes. Now, you can perhaps point me to your proof beyond the skin color of the endorsee.

I agree the burden of proof would be on me to prove my claim, but it is also on you to prove that it wasn't based off race.
I think it beyond even the most active imagination to consider that race had absolutely no effect on the endorsement, even if subconsciously.

There have been plenty of white presidents.
There will be plenty more, the next president after obama will, likely, be white.

If obama loses this election, there won't be a black president for perhaps another 20 years.

There is a major difference


ADDITION:
Your over simplification of the issue is quite frankly doing your arguement no credit

Oh, the irony. You attribute all of the endorsements of Obama to be racially motivated and then suggest my reply that offers a comparison is oversimplifying. Of course, attributing endorsements to race is oversimplifying. Good job noticing.

I agree the burden of proof would be on me to prove my claim, but it is also on you to prove that it wasn't based off race.
I think it beyond even the most active imagination to consider that race had absolutely no effect on the endorsement, even if subconsciously.

I fear you don't understand burden of proof.

I say you're a child molestor. The burden is on you to prove you're not.

You know I usually avoid this accusation, but everything about your post is racist.

It's absurd to suggest that people can't endorse Obama unless it's about race. Some people actual think there is an importance to the position. The administration and those that support them, *ahem* McCain, mistreated Powell and, beyond that, demonstrated that they do not have the interests of our country at the heart of their politics.

I'm quite aware the post could be construed as racist, but it doesn't mean it shouldn't be said. (stfu ultra-liberals :P)
I'm a die-hard obama supporter for the record.
And yes, Powell's mistreatment probobly factored into his decision to endorse a democrat.
But so did race, its obvious

Oh, the irony. You attribute all of the endorsements of Obama to be racially motivated and then suggest my reply that offers a comparison is oversimplifying. Of course, attributing endorsements to race is oversimplifying. Good job noticing.

Partially to race.
Straw men arguements are hardly any good, try harder.


"
I fear you don't understand burden of proof.

I say you're a child molestor. The burden is on you to prove you're not.
"

:rolleyes:

Read my post again.
I have to prove what i said, you have to prove what you said.
Also, while i've kept my attacks on your arguement purely to an intellectual level you seem to have fallen back on personal attacks, which doesn't exactly make me wan't to respond to you, but for the sake of your previous post and clarification i felt it necessary

I'm quite aware the post could be construed as racist, but it doesn't mean it shouldn't be said. (stfu ultra-liberals :P)
I'm a die-hard obama supporter for the record.
And yes, Powell's mistreatment probobly factored into his decision to endorse a democrat.
But so did race, its obvious

I love the "I have black friends" disavowment of racism.

It's not construed as racist. When you look at the race of two people and with no other evidence attribute their motivations by looking at their race, you're being racist. When you go further than that with several other suggestions, people are going to call you out for it.

You've admitted you have no evidence for your claim other than the race of Powell and the race of Obama.

I love the "I have black friends" disavowment of racism.

It's not construed as racist. When you look at the race of two people and with no other evidence attribute their motivations by looking at their race, you're being racist. When you go further than that with several other suggestions, people are going to call you out for it.

You've admitted you have no evidence for your claim other than the race of Powell and the race of Obama.

Find where i admitted that or stop talking out your ass

Partially to race.
Straw men arguements are hardly any good, try harder.


Ah, yes, someone who also doesn't know what a strawman is.

Im unimpressed by this endorsement.
its clearly based on race.
and seriously, i expected better from them both.


:rolleyes:

Read my post again.
I have to prove what i said, you have to prove what you said.
Also, while i've kept my attacks on your arguement purely to an intellectual level you seem to have fallen back on personal attacks, which doesn't exactly make me wan't to respond to you, but for the sake of your previous post and clarification i felt it necessary

It doesn't work that way. You made a positive claim. I say the endorsement of Obama was caused by magical pink unicorns. You say that magical pink unicorns were not the cause. The burden of proof is on me.

It doesn't work that way. You made a positive claim. I say the endorsement of Obama was caused by magical pink unicorns. You say that magical pink unicorns were not the cause. The burden of proof is on me.

You have also made a positive claim that Powell endorsed obama for personal political reasons.

I know, he's a prat.
But a republican who disagree's with the person he is endorsing on every campaign issue, and happens to be the same race.
can you honestly tell me race didn't factor into it, considering this is the first chance the USA has had at a US president being black, and if he fails this, it'll be a long time before the democrats try it again.
of course race is a factor but its not the only factor or the major factor.

a man like colin powell wouldnt endorse a man he thought would be a terrible president just because he is black.

But so did race, its obvious

Ah yes, "obvious". The last vetige of someone with no argument, claiming his unsubstantiated position is so plain, so clear, so obvious that he doesn't need to support it. "It's obvious".

The problem is, it rests on a very flimsy premise, if it's "obvious" we should RECOGNIZE it as such, to say it's OBVIOUS that Colin Powell's decision MUST have been influenced by race is to say that an educated man, an MBA holder, a former secretary of state and the one time highest ranked man in our entire military, couldn't have decided to support a candidate without thinking, at least in part, "hey, his skin is the same color as mine, I should vote for him!"

Since I reject such an absurd proposition, I reject your claim that it's "obvious"

of course race is a factor but its not the only factor or the major factor.

a man like colin powell wouldnt endorse a man he thought would be a terrible president just because he is black.

Yes, precisely.
I just feel that in this case, the race factor tipped the balance when ideally it shouldn't have.

Find where i admitted that or stop talking out your ass

Heh, see, puppets are so easy to expose.

Meanwhile, where you admitted it was when you offered no support for your claim other than the skin color of the candidates. This is a tacit admission of the lack of support. You've even admitted you have a burden to prove it (before you demonstrated your lack of understanding when you said people have to prove it wasn't racially motivated).

I agree the burden of proof would be on me to prove my claim, but it is also on you to prove that it wasn't based off race.
I think it beyond even the most active imagination to consider that race had absolutely no effect on the endorsement, even if subconsciously.

My proof is easy, you've already seen it. It comes in the form of Powells endorsement where he never mentions anythign about race, at all. It comes from Powell's history of not endorsing other black candidates, and from his race-neutral past.

Your turn.

You have also made a positive claim that Powell endorsed obama for personal political reasons.

I did? I said there were other explanations that make sense that you were dismissing. I didn't say those were his reasons. But, hey, why read what people write? You've just been making things up thus far.

Ah yes, "obvious". The last vetige of someone with no argument, claiming his unsubstantiated position is so plain, so clear, so obvious that he doesn't need to support it. "It's obvious".

The problem is, it rests on a very flimsy premise, if it's "obvious" we should RECOGNIZE it as such, to say it's OBVIOUS that Colin Powell's decision MUST have been influenced by race is to say that an educated man, an MBA, a former secretary of state and the one time highest ranked man in our entire military, couldn't have decided to support a candidate without thinking, at least in part, "hey, his skin is the same color as mine, I should vote for him!"

Since I reject such an absurd proposition, I reject your claim that it's "obvious"

This is going to sound absurdly racist, but he's still black.
Do you think if there were two identical candidates and one was black and the other white, powell would vote for the white guy.
Honestly.
its a sad state of affairs but its the truth, our current mentality IS one that thinks race is an issue, and it shouldn't be.

I did? I said there were other explanations that make sense that you were dismissing. I didn't say those were his reasons. But, hey, why read what people write? You've just been making things up thus far.

Im going to give up trying to reason with you as you just shove words in my mouth, post random attacks, and call me racist without any rational argument whatsoever.

This is going to sound absurdly racist, but he's still black.
Do you think if there were two identical candidates and one was black and the other white, powell would vote for the white guy.
Honestly.
its a sad state of affairs but its the truth, our current mentality IS one that thinks race is an issue, and it shouldn't be.

Your right it does sound that way. :eek:

This is going to sound absurdly racist, but he's still black.
Do you think if there were two identical candidates and one was black and the other white, powell would vote for the white guy.
Honestly.
its a sad state of affairs but its the truth, MY current mentality IS one that thinks race is all that matters.
Fixed

I wouldn't assume. It's when you assume he would support a candidate because he's black that you cross into racism.

You're also shifting those goalposts all over the place. Before it was clearly racially motivated. Even though you admit the candidates are NOT equal.

...our current mentality...
YOUR current mentality is not necessarily Powell's.

This is going to sound absurdly racist, but he's still black.

You're right. It does sound that way.

For good reaosn.

Do you think if there were two identical candidates

Nope nope, stop right there. If you want to back up your premise, I suggest you stay firmly grounded in reality. The fact is, they're not identical. Not even close. Trying to play the game of "but...but...what if one of them was HITLER huh? Don't you think Powell would vote for a black man over Hitler?" just demonstrates your inability to support your actual premise.

I don't want to wonder what Powell would do when faced with White Candidate A and Black Candidate B. That's irrelevant. The question is what DID he do when faced with the decision between real life Barack Obama and real life John McCain, and why.

its a sad state of affairs but its the truth, our current mentality IS one that thinks race is an issue, and it shouldn't be.

You posed a question of "what would he do if candidates were identical except one is black" then whine about race being an issue. of COURSE in that hypothetical race would be an issue, because in your poorly constructed hypothetical you made race the ONLY issue there is. But once again, we're not talking fantasy, we're talking reality.

Your right it does sound that way. :eek:

Your post contributed such an epic amount of worth to the discussion that you should not feel the need to post again for the whole day.

Im going to give up trying to reason with you as you just shove words in my mouth, post random attacks, and call me racist without any rational argument whatsoever.

Random attacks? You admitted you sound racist. That and the rest addresses the nature of your argument.

I love that you're dodging even more now. There are arguments there. I've demonstrated them. I've explained the burden of proof to you. Your reply was to attribute an argument to me I didn't make and upon being caught, to get upset that you're nailed.

If you can't handle get your ass handed to you, then make a better argument.

Im going to give up trying to reason with you as you just shove words in my mouth, post random attacks, and call me racist without any rational argument whatsoever.

We gave you rational argument the fact that Colin Powell is a life long republican despite being black and the steriotypical party of African Americans is democrats. So if he fit steriotypes he would always have been a democrat. Also Powell would have endorsed Obama even if Obama was white. This is because he has often showed signs of seperating from the republican party.

Im going to give up trying to reason with you as you just shove words in my mouth, post random attacks, and call me racist without any rational argument whatsoever.

Ummm, where exactly did Joc "shove" words into your mouth?

As far as calling you racist its because you said:
Im unimpressed by this endorsement.
its clearly based on race.
and seriously, i expected better from them both.
And have been unable to articulate why "its clearly based on race."

You're right. It does sound that way.

For good reaosn.



Nope nope, stop right there. If you want to back up your premise, I suggest you stay firmly grounded in reality. The fact is, they're not identical. Not even close. Trying to play the game of "but...but...what if one of them was HITLER huh? Don't you think Powell would vote for a black man over Hitler?" just demonstrates your inability to support your actual premise.

I don't want to wonder what Powell would do when faced with White Candidate A and Black Candidate B. That's irrelevant. The question is what DID he do when faced with the decision between real life Barack Obama and real life John McCain, and why.



You posed a question of "what would he do if candidates were identical except one is black" then whine about race being an issue. of COURSE in that hypothetical race would be an issue, because in your poorly constructed hypothetical you made race the ONLY issue there is. But once again, we're not talking fantasy, we're talking reality.

I agree, it was a poor arguement to go into hypothetical arguements.
However, i truly think Powell was influenced by race for this endorsement.
Would he have endorsed clinton, do you think. (More hypothetics im afraid for the moment)
If, as others have argued, the reason for his endorsement of Obama was due to his mistreatment by the republicans.
But can you honestly see him doing that.
Will he continue to support democrats in future if the party continues to mistreat him, will he endorse them publically as he did with Obama?

As for hard evidence your quite right i have none, but my opinion will remain unchanged until i see evidence from the opposing side of this arguement

As for hard evidence your quite right i have none

Then don't insult our intelligence by calling it "obvious", as if those who disagree with you are blind or fools.

I agree, it was a poor arguement to go into hypothetical arguements.
However, i truly think Powell was influenced by race for this endorsement.
Would he have endorsed clinton, do you think. (More hypothetics im afraid for the moment)
If, as others have argued, the reason for his endorsement of Obama was due to his mistreatment by the republicans.
But can you honestly see him doing that.
Will he continue to support democrats in future if the party continues to mistreat him, will he endorse them publically as he did with Obama?

As for hard evidence your quite right i have none, but my opinion will remain unchanged until i see evidence from the opposing side of this arguement


Powell's own arguments aren't good enough to prove why he endorsed Obama? Why? What knd of magical proof do you expect to see? A brain scan from some mind reading device? You can see whow we think what you are asking for is ridiculous right?

Then don't insult our intelligence by calling it "obvious", as if those who disagree with you are blind or fools.

Well i do consider it obvious that race at least had some influence on his decision.
And, i would consider you fools if you didn't concede that, even if just to yourself.

I agree, it was a poor arguement to go into hypothetical arguements.
However, i truly think Powell was influenced by race for this endorsement.
Would he have endorsed clinton, do you think. (More hypothetics im afraid for the moment)
If, as others have argued, the reason for his endorsement of Obama was due to his mistreatment by the republicans.
But can you honestly see him doing that.
Will he continue to support democrats in future if the party continues to mistreat him, will he endorse them publically as he did with Obama?

As for hard evidence your quite right i have none, but my opinion will remain unchanged until i see evidence from the opposing side of this arguement

The opposing side is making a negative claim. They don't have the burden of proof.

Powell gave his reasons for his choice. They fit with his recent past. That's the only evidence there is and it offers no suggestion that it is racially motivated. You have to ignore the actual evidence and focus on their skin color in order to reach the conclusion you've offered.

Your post contributed such an epic amount of worth to the discussion that you should not feel the need to post again for the whole day.

You said it not me.:hail:

Powell's own arguments aren't good enough to prove why he endorsed Obama? Why? What knd of magical proof do you expect to see? A brain scan from some mind reading device? You can see whow we think what you are asking for is ridiculous right?

i would basically need for it to turn out that Powell is both blind and had no idea Obama is black, so yes i'm well aware i'm asking for something ridiculous.
The fact is, i, personally, believe race had at least some impact on his decision. Even if it was just the last point he needed to actually decide to endorse the guy

Well i do consider it obvious that race at least had some influence on his decision.
And, i would consider you fools if you didn't concede that, even if just to yourself.

I'll gladly admit that to myself if you show me some evidence of that. I'll wait.

...yes i'm well aware i'm asking for something ridiculous...

Then good day to you sir :)

i would basically need for it to turn out that Powell is both blind and had no idea Obama is black, so yes i'm well aware i'm asking for something ridiculous.
The fact is, i, personally, believe race had at least some impact on his decision. Even if it was just the last point he needed to actually decide to endorse the guy

On what do you base that assumption? What evidence do you have that he would not have endorsed an identical white candidate? You've admitted that McCain is a terrible candidate. People, including Powell, have demonstrated to you many reasons why he could have chosen Obama. Why would race have to be the "last point" to sway him?

On what do you base this other than skin color?

The whole "Powell Endorsed Obama Because They Be Brothers" idea also has to discount and insult the very idea of Black Republicans.

http://www.republicansforobama.org/?q=consider

I wonder if all of these people endorsed Obama because he's black.

On what do you base that assumption? What evidence do you have that he would not have endorsed an identical white candidate? You've admitted that McCain is a terrible candidate. People, including Powell, have demonstrated to you many reasons why he could have chosen Obama. Why would race have to be the "last point" to sway him?

On what do you base this other than skin color?

I base it, if you must know, on my inherent pessimism and my assumption that everything is the worst it could be.
Its hardly evidence i know.

I base it, if you must know, on my inherent pessimism and my assumption that everything is the worst it could be.
Its hardly evidence i know.

Didn't you accuse several people, including me, of having no rational argument? Reread your contribution to this thread.

Maybe

Maybe Powell took the fact that Obama is black, and that he himself is also black, into consideration when making his decision.

he very well may have.

Other things he MIGHT have taken into consideration, for all we know:

That Obama is young
That Obama's dad is from kenya
that Obama was never in the military
that Obama was born on an island
that Obama was Ivy league educated
that Obama was at one point a civil rights lawyer.
that all the people talking about his middle name being hussein pissed him off so much that he just had to endorse Obama, to flip them all off.
That he thinks mccain is senile
that he thinks Palin is an idiot

All these things COULD HAVE somehow factored into his decision. It is incredibly arrogant to assume that one of them did without having at least something to back that up.

Maybe

Maybe Powell took the fact that Obama is black, and that he himself is also black, into consideration when making his decision.

he very well may have.

Other things he MIGHT have taken into consideration, for all we know:

That Obama is young
That Obama's dad is from kenya
that Obama was never in the military
that Obama was born on an island
that Obama was Ivy league educated
that Obama was at one point a civil rights lawyer.
that all the people talking about his middle name being hussein pissed him off so much that he just had to endorse Obama, to flip them all off.
That he thinks mccain is senile
that he thinks Palin is an idiot

All these things COULD HAVE somehow factored into his decision. It is incredibly arrogant to assume that one of them did without having at least something to back that up.

All hail friend computer! :hail:

Are you, by any chance, Glorious Alpha Complex returned from the dead?

Maybe

Maybe Powell took the fact that Obama is black, and that he himself is also black, into consideration when making his decision.

he very well may have.

Other things he MIGHT have taken into consideration, for all we know:

That Obama is young
That Obama's dad is from kenya
that Obama was never in the military
that Obama was born on an island
that Obama was Ivy league educated
that Obama was at one point a civil rights lawyer.
that all the people talking about his middle name being hussein pissed him off so much that he just had to endorse Obama, to flip them all off.
That he thinks mccain is senile
that he thinks Palin is an idiot

All these things COULD HAVE somehow factored into his decision. It is incredibly arrogant to assume that one of them did without having at least something to back that up.

A first post that's entertaining, thoughtful and logic? HAVE YOU NO SHAME? Where are the gun smileys? The malapropisms? The trolling? ;)

Didn't you accuse several people, including me, of having no rational argument? Reread your contribution to this thread.

Yeah, but he never said he wasn't a hypocrit. Damnit, Jocabia, this is what you get for reading so much into what people say, and making assumptions about intellectual honesty. Sheesh.

i would basically need for it to turn out that Powell is both blind and had no idea Obama is black

Or that an educated, intelligent man can make a decision to vote for someone without their respective skin colors coming in to play.

Shocking, I know.

Yes, precisely.
I just feel that in this case, the race factor tipped the balance when ideally it shouldn't have.
i dont think it did.

i think sarah palin tipped the balance.

as it has for many republicans.

I didn't even read the other posts you know, just the original.

Well there's your problem.

can you honestly tell me race didn't factor into it, considering this is the first chance the USA has had at a US president being black, and if he fails this, it'll be a long time before the democrats try it again.

Yes.

i would basically need for it to turn out that Powell is both blind and had no idea Obama is black, so yes i'm well aware i'm asking for something ridiculous.
The fact is, i, personally, believe race had at least some impact on his decision. Even if it was just the last point he needed to actually decide to endorse the guy

Ah, so it's a worldview issue, then?

Maybe

Maybe Powell took the fact that Obama is black, and that he himself is also black, into consideration when making his decision.

he very well may have.

Other things he MIGHT have taken into consideration, for all we know:

That Obama is young
That Obama's dad is from kenya
that Obama was never in the military
that Obama was born on an island
that Obama was Ivy league educated
that Obama was at one point a civil rights lawyer.
that all the people talking about his middle name being hussein pissed him off so much that he just had to endorse Obama, to flip them all off.
That he thinks mccain is senile
that he thinks Palin is an idiot

All these things COULD HAVE somehow factored into his decision. It is incredibly arrogant to assume that one of them did without having at least something to back that up.

...I'm watching you.

Maybe

Maybe Powell took the fact that Obama is black, and that he himself is also black, into consideration when making his decision.

he very well may have.

Other things he MIGHT have taken into consideration, for all we know:

That Obama is young
That Obama's dad is from kenya
that Obama was never in the military
that Obama was born on an island
that Obama was Ivy league educated
that Obama was at one point a civil rights lawyer.
that all the people talking about his middle name being hussein pissed him off so much that he just had to endorse Obama, to flip them all off.
That he thinks mccain is senile
that he thinks Palin is an idiot

All these things COULD HAVE somehow factored into his decision. It is incredibly arrogant to assume that one of them did without having at least something to back that up.

You are no n00b. This post was way too coherent. You are obviously a former member returned with a new name.

You fraud.;):D

Ah, but intelligent lifeforms have been discovered outside of NSG!

You are no n00b. This post was way too coherent. You are obviously a former member returned with a new name.

You fraud.;):D

I have been known by many names in the past. Honestly, I would be posting as Glorious Alpha Complex, but that nation died due to inactivity and I haven't been able to reactivate it on the forums (I have a problem with periodically going inactive.)

Or rather, I have always been Glorious Omega Complex. "Alpha" is above your security clearance, citizen. Submit to a brainscrub and have a nice day.

Ah, but intelligent lifeforms have been discovered outside of NSG!


MARS THEY FOUND THEM ON MARS OMG RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!!:eek2:

MARS THEY FOUND THEM ON MARS OMG RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!!:eek2:

Nu-uh. In the Strangers' Bar.

Or rather, I have always been Glorious Omega Complex. "Alpha" is above your security clearance, citizen. Submit to a brainscrub and have a nice day.

So, a Paranoia player, are we? :)

So, a Paranoia player, are we? :)

Sounds like it. And for the record, I called that about a page ago, GAC.

Or rather, I have always been Glorious Omega Complex. "Alpha" is above your security clearance, citizen. Submit to a brainscrub and have a nice day.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/2056/mentalflossef7.png (http://imageshack.us)

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/2056/mentalflossef7.png (http://imageshack.us)

That's a brain-floss. Unless you happen to be a loyal GWB supporter it won't suffice.

:D

Ah, but intelligent lifeforms have been discovered outside of NSG!

Fie Archcoille. Everyone knows that there is no life outside of NSG. Tis a barren wasteland which consumes all that venture outside the safe havens of NSG.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/2056/mentalflossef7.png (http://imageshack.us)Ouchies. :(
I always rather liked Powell, and I still do. His endorsing Obama seems like the sensible thing to do, which I agree with.
I thought for sure that Congress would give him his fifth star. Guess not. Bad Congress! :(

Sounds like it. And for the record, I called that about a page ago, GAC.

Holy sh*t, you're right. How could I miss something that glaringly obvious? -_-

Holy sh*t, you're right. How could I miss something that glaringly obvious? -_-

Because you're Heikoku.

And because I'm a fucking ninja.

Because you're Heikoku.

And because I'm a fucking ninja. Like this?
(http://onlylol.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/ninja.jpg)

Like this?
(http://onlylol.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/ninja.jpg)

Exactly. Only bigger, hairier, and more likely to kill decapitate someone.

Exactly. Only bigger, hairier, and more likely to kill decapitate someone.

And less likely to be distracted by tacos or skanky blondes.

Exactly. Only bigger, hairier, and more likely to kill decapitate someone.Like this?
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm184/harakiri9/ninja_tux.jpg)

And less likely to be distracted by tacos or skanky blondes.

I don't know about the tacos part (Sorry LG, but Burritos are, hands down, always better), but I do tend to be easily distracted by skanky blondes.

Like this?
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm184/harakiri9/ninja_tux.jpg)

Yup. Just with more clothes.

Yup. Just with more clothes.This (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a95/SA1K0R0/ninja2.jpg) or this (http://www.armchairempire.com/images/feature-articles/Weekly-Top-10/best-ninjas/ryu-hayabusa.jpg)?

I'm starting to think ninjas have become passe.

Powell is clearly a terrorist.

Powell is clearly a terrorist.Of course, you have to be a terrorist to achieve the rank of four-star general. :D
And be Secretary of State.
What do you think the government is? A democracy!?

This (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a95/SA1K0R0/ninja2.jpg) or this (http://www.armchairempire.com/images/feature-articles/Weekly-Top-10/best-ninjas/ryu-hayabusa.jpg)?

Probably most similar to this. (http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/i_am_not_a_ninja.png)

I'm starting to think ninjas have become passe.

*sneaks up behind Muray*

*stealth-pies*

Of course, you have to be a terrorist to achieve the rank of four-star general. :D
And be Secretary of State.
What do you think the government is? A democracy!?

He pals around with them: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols2/powell.arafat.jpg

He pals around with them: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols2/powell.arafat.jpgI'm not going to play turn-about with you. XD

I'm not going to play turn-about with you. XD

I am joking, for the record. I dont really think Powell is a terrorist.

I just wish he hadnt, you know, done that whole 'Iraq has WMDs' thing at the UN. I wish he had quit the minute Bush asked him too.

I might be more excited about this endorsement if my respect for him hadnt taken such a hit.

Im unimpressed by this endorsement.
its clearly based on race.
and seriously, i expected better from them both.

See what I responded to the other jackass who spouted the same tripe. Jesse Jackson? Al Sharpton? Cynthia McKinny? Carol Mosley Brawn? Alan Keyes? Seriously! Sometimes it is just appropriate to flame you.

I'm quite aware the post could be construed as racist, but it doesn't mean it shouldn't be said. (stfu ultra-liberals :P)
I'm a die-hard obama supporter for the record.
And yes, Powell's mistreatment probobly factored into his decision to endorse a democrat.
But so did race, its obvious

Let's clarify. Your original post stated you were umimpressed and it was clearly based on race. It appeared that you were saying that was the only basis for the endorsement. You are saying it played a role, but was not the major factor? Because if you are claiming anything else I'll have to wait to stop laughing/crying over the foolishness.

Let's clarify. Your original post stated you were umimpressed and it was clearly based on race. It appeared that you were saying that was the only basis for the endorsement. You are saying it played a role, but was not the major factor? Because if you are claiming anything else I'll have to wait to stop laughing/crying over the foolishness.

You are mistaken, Citizen. Ostroeuropa-R-ACE never made that statement. He stated that it was only one of many factors influencing Powell's decision. That statement to which you are referring is unhistory, and it would do you well to unlearn it as soon as possible.

Knowledge of Goalposts, or how they are moved, is above your security clearance. There is nothing to see here. The computer is your friend. Move along.

Are you honestly trying to say race didn't factor into this?

Uh...yes. You can't be that blind or you'd not be able to see your monitor.

I agree the burden of proof would be on me to prove my claim, but it is also on you to prove that it wasn't based off race.
I think it beyond even the most active imagination to consider that race had absolutely no effect on the endorsement, even if subconsciously.

Aaaaaaand you're done.

You have also made a positive claim that Powell endorsed obama for personal political reasons.

Which was supported by Powell's own words both quoted and linked in this thread.

Whereas your assertions were supported by great, wobbly columns of nearly-set Jello.

I base it, if you must know, on my inherent pessimism and my assumption that everything is the worst it could be.
Its hardly evidence i know.

And yet you keep posting. Well, at least you're a troll who knows he's a troll. That's something. Not much, but something.