NationStates Jolt Archive

The red line ...

oh wait, the lines just TANKED when McCain just tried to zing Obama...like almost bottomed out...

The red line was high during McCain's emotional appeal and the Indy and Dem ones flatlined. During Obama's riposte, all lines were up.Seeing it now too, seems to lean to Obama.

I think everyone watching can't help their bias. However, I'm fulling willing to recognize the quality of McCain as a politician and debator. I expected better from him. Much better. He is clearly over-prepared. It's actually a bad thing. It leaves him stuck in the prepared comments and he's not countering hardly at all.

Israel has nukes, correct?

good point. Obama shouldn't let that lie...

Israel has nukes, correct?

Officially, no. Unoffficially, about 75-150.

Why not call it....The League of Nations?

I'm thinking of something...nations...together...united...

Seriously, didn't he JUST propose what is, essentially, the United Nations?

"existential crisis to Israel"?

I don't think that word means what you think it means.
He's afraid Israel will start questioning who they are and listen to Emo music.

I'm thinking of something...nations...together...united...

Seriously, didn't he JUST propose what is, essentially, the United Nations?

No no no. He proposed a United Nations where we get to exclude who we don't like.

The biggest thing that's helped Iran is the war in Iraq. Good.

And he's taken a firm stance on nuclear Iran, firm language isn't good, but it will help him not sound "weak"

Did he just say Russia wasn't a democracy? I kinda tuned out for a sec there.

Edit: nvm, I'm being politically stupid

I'm thinking of something...nations...together...united...

Seriously, didn't he JUST propose what is, essentially, the United Nations?

No, because the United Nations are not all DEMOCRACIES!

Actually, what he just proposed is NATO.

Obama's getting points on my board by pointing out that Iran being a threat is a direct result of the War on Iraq.

Did he just say Russia wasn't a democracy? I kinda tuned out for a sec there.

They both said that Russia is not democratic.

I'm thinking of something...nations...together...united...

Seriously, didn't he JUST propose what is, essentially, the United Nations?

The League of Nations is the failed precursor to the United Nations, that couldn't stop the 2nd World War.

I'm sure our liberal bias is making it seem more one-sided than it actually is, but most of the commentary elsewhere I'm seeing is showing that Obama is "winning". Seeing that too, oh no, are we all liberal? lol I thought we might lean too, but this has so far been a win for Obama. Despite our possible liberal bias. Do either care about Palestinians?

fucking up the name of a world leader. Way to sound connected John!

i liked the comment about 'not talking to people isn't punishing them'.

The League of Nations is the failed precursor to the United Nations, that couldn't stop the 2nd World War.

yes I know what the league of nations was! :p

Pore, pore, Perestroika!

Struggling with the pronunciations. I think that's the part of the prep that pissed him off...

Point of order: Ahmadinejad very specifically did NOT mention Israel in his speech at the UN.

I reserve the right to meet with someone if I think it will keep american safe.

Nice

Meeting with leaders makes sense! What is McCain's idea....ignore them...

The audience had a bit of trouble keeping quiet at the tea comment. LOL

Is he really mispronouncing Ahmajinedad?

Give him an education on compromise, Obama.

1) Ahmedinejad, Chavez and the other guy are NOT national enemies of the US. We are not in current hostilities with their nations. Somebody needs to tell McCain that.

2) Obama pointed out that not talking to unfriendly nations has not produced good results. McCain just repeating that he thinks Ahmedinejad is a bad guy does not counter Obama's point.

3) Obama pointing out that the Bush admin no longer agrees with McCain on this is a nice touch.

McCain fails this one too.

EDIT: I also note that McCain felt moved to mention three people he thinks we should ignore, but ranted only about one of them. Weak.

Ouch. "Your advisor, who you just mentioned, just said the same thing about Iran." (So CH doesn't go batshit, that's not a direct quote.)

Is he really mispronouncing Ahmajinedad?

Are you really misspelling it? :tongue:

3) Obama pointing out that the Bush admin no longer agrees with McCain on this is a nice touch.

McCain fails this one too.

Bush admin nothing, his own advisors

Are you really misspelling it? :tongue:

That's it, Barr can't be president.

Nailed on spain. Score obama

Obama just OWNED McCain so hard that I'm surprised McCain is even standing.

EDIT: WTF? Why do we care about how tall Koreans are?

Oof, he made the audience laugh again.

"I mean SPAIN! Spain is a NATO ally. If we can't meet with our friends" . . .

Fucking fantastic. What a weak comeback "I won't set the white house visitor's schedual . . ."

Why are people treating Kissinger as if Kissinger deserved more than death?

Bush admin nothing, his own advisors

They're the same people.

I reserve the right to meet with someone if I think it will keep american safe.

Nice

+1 point

"What Obama doesn't seem to understand...."

McCain, going for the Jewish vote it seems.

Three inches taller? What the fuck is this loon talking about?

Are you really misspelling it? :tongue:

Ha ha, probably, I googled it and pasted but the sites, in looking back, aren't particularly great.

When I'm running for presidency I'll be concerned :)

EDIT: Jocabia got that in already, but I should be president, really.

McCain's points overall gone DOWN, Obama's gone UP. Overall: 8 to 41

Seriously, Obama has corrected McCain on the pronounciation multiple times and he still mispronounces it.

Now it is about to devolve into a slapping fight. Like little girls.

I think McCain may have slightly hammered Obama.

McCain was extremely testy.

McCain's constant harping on Israel and Kissinger is starting to sound like he's trying to suggest Obama is anti-semitic. Who wants to bet on how fast the rightwing radio jocks pick up on that?

Three inches taller? What the fuck is this loon talking about?

North Koreans have been starved to the point of malnourishment by their government. They're smaller than South Koreans as a consequence.

What the hell...?

McCain lost his temper a bit there.

McCain was extremely testy.

The question is, did that help McCain?

I think McCain may have slightly hammered Obama.

I'll admit, McCain recovered some ground there, mainly by twisting Obama's words.

McCain lost his temper a bit there.

Let's hope he loses it fully.

The question is, did that help McCain?

it'll help his base, for sure. It also left him getting the last word. I'd say that little exchange went to him.

I think McCain may have slightly hammered Obama.
I have to agree, only in that he outshouted him and managed to find a talking point that can be built upon.

North Koreans have been starved to the point of malnourishment by their government. They're smaller than South Koreans as a consequence.
Yes I know that. What I don't get is what the fuck point he was trying to make with that random catalogue of downsides of North Korea.

McCain lost his temper a bit there.

Theoretically Obama should be pushing those buttons...

Nuclear proliferation. I like it.

The Presidential Debate Drinking Game (http://blog.indecision2008.com/2008/09/25/the-presidential-debate-drinking-game/)

The key to this one is to take a shot of Everclear and then do each of the following:

* Everytime a candidate mentions September 11th, prank-call Rudy Giuliani.

* Every time a candidate mentions the Arctic Wildlife Refuge, plunge a turkey baster into your ice cube tray.

* Every time a candidate promises to bring back blue collar jobs, call your customer service rep in Bangalore.

* Every time a candidate says "folks," threaten to foreclose on an Iowa farm unless the farmer's daughter "cooperates."

* Every time Barack Obama mentions his tax cuts for the middle class, gift-wrap a box of poo for your rich uncle.

* Every time McCain says "friends," call Lindsey Graham and say "I think he's talking about you!"

* Every time Obama pauses before the predicate of a sentence, go watch Star Trek: The Original Series to see how a pro does it.

* Every time Jim Lehrer says something boring, send yourself a "Celtic Thunder" tote bag.

* Every time McCain mentions "the Surge," drink a Red Bull. Every time he mentions "Red Bull," drink a Surge.

* Every time Obama strings together at least three fuzzy, liberal platitudes, cue up the episode of The West Wing where Mrs. Landingham dies.

* Every time McCain refers to his running mate, stand up, face Russia and finish whatever bottle is in front of you.

you don't deal with russia by staring into his eyes and seeing his soul.

Obama has been nailing these backhanded comments.

McCain continues to say Obama doesn't understand.

McCain smells blood on Russia. I smelt it too. Obama opened himself up too much. He will have to pull a rebuttal out of heaven like some fucking political mana.

Oh la la, le nai-ev-ee-tay

Through this entire thing, McCain has repeated "Obama doesn't understand" and then he goes on to repeat Bush's same shallow, childish attitude towards foreign policy. Ironic.

The Presidential Debate Drinking Game (http://blog.indecision2008.com/2008/09/25/the-presidential-debate-drinking-game/)

The key to this one is to take a shot of Everclear and then do each of the following:

* Everytime a candidate mentions September 11th, prank-call Rudy Giuliani.

* Every time a candidate mentions the Arctic Wildlife Refuge, plunge a turkey baster into your ice cube tray.

* Every time a candidate promises to bring back blue collar jobs, call your customer service rep in Bangalore.

* Every time a candidate says "folks," threaten to foreclose on an Iowa farm unless the farmer's daughter "cooperates."

* Every time Barack Obama mentions his tax cuts for the middle class, gift-wrap a box of poo for your rich uncle.

* Every time McCain says "friends," call Lindsey Graham and say "I think he's talking about you!"

* Every time Obama pauses before the predicate of a sentence, go watch Star Trek: The Original Series to see how a pro does it.

* Every time Jim Lehrer says something boring, send yourself a "Celtic Thunder" tote bag.

* Every time McCain mentions "the Surge," drink a Red Bull. Every time he mentions "Red Bull," drink a Surge.

* Every time Obama strings together at least three fuzzy, liberal platitudes, cue up the episode of The West Wing where Mrs. Landingham dies.

* Every time McCain refers to his running mate, stand up, face Russia and finish whatever bottle is in front of you.

You forgot every time McCain says "I know how to do - "

Heh. McCain called him naive for admitting both sides were escalating the conflict in Georgia. Seriously, if that's not definitive of the differences between Obama and McCain, I don't know what is.

No one knows Tblisi, please.

I'm putting points on McCain over Russia - Obama shouldn't have let any of this stand

Jesus Christ, has anyone else noticed that every time we talk about a new nation, McCain says "I've been there." What the fuck is this? Where is Carman Sandiego?

* Every time McCain says "friends," call Lindsey Graham and say "I think he's talking about you!"


Quality.

Are you guys ahead of me on this? Obama hasn't replied yet.

McCain is more used to Russia, but as Obama said, we can't treat Russia as the Soviet Union. We have some common ground, even if they're slowly drifting back towards the Cold War politics.

OMGTHEYAGREE!

I'm putting points on McCain over Russia - Obama shouldn't have let any of this stand

Now, now - there is still quite a bit of time to go...

McCain is doing his best to own foreign policy but he's doing it by casting the world as a whole globe of conflict/potential conflict. Regardless of what he says, he's still advocating not talking to people unless they are already doing what we want. That's just Bush v.3.

Meanwhile, I think Obama is coming across as tougher than a lot of people have given him credit for.

Yeah, McCain is killing Obama on Russia.

According to the lines, McCain just nailed that. Actually came out pretty astute about what this was 'really' about and where it was going.

East coast. Live gets to us first... :D

What the fuck is this? Where is Carman Sandiego?
That would be much more fun.

jesus christ, has anyone else noticed that every time we talk about a new nation, mccain says "i've been there." what the fuck is this? Where is carman sandiego?

lmao

The Presidential Debate Drinking Game (http://blog.indecision2008.com/2008/09/25/the-presidential-debate-drinking-game/)

The key to this one is to take a shot of Everclear and then do each of the following:

* Everytime a candidate mentions September 11th, prank-call Rudy Giuliani.

* Every time a candidate mentions the Arctic Wildlife Refuge, plunge a turkey baster into your ice cube tray.

* Every time a candidate promises to bring back blue collar jobs, call your customer service rep in Bangalore.

* Every time a candidate says "folks," threaten to foreclose on an Iowa farm unless the farmer's daughter "cooperates."

* Every time Barack Obama mentions his tax cuts for the middle class, gift-wrap a box of poo for your rich uncle.

* Every time McCain says "friends," call Lindsey Graham and say "I think he's talking about you!"

* Every time Obama pauses before the predicate of a sentence, go watch Star Trek: The Original Series to see how a pro does it.

* Every time Jim Lehrer says something boring, send yourself a "Celtic Thunder" tote bag.

* Every time McCain mentions "the Surge," drink a Red Bull. Every time he mentions "Red Bull," drink a Surge.

* Every time Obama strings together at least three fuzzy, liberal platitudes, cue up the episode of The West Wing where Mrs. Landingham dies.

* Every time McCain refers to his running mate, stand up, face Russia and finish whatever bottle is in front of you.
Your willingness to poke fun at BOTH candidates and apparent recognition of the line of shit that both of them wish to feed us gives me faith in the people in charge of things, despite the idiocy of some posters (possibly myself included).

3% of the oil supplies. we use 25 % of the oil.

point to obama.

Obama re-shifted the debate to help himself. Nice...

McCain is doing his best to own foreign policy but he's doing it by casting the world as a whole globe of conflict/potential conflict. Regardless of what he says, he's still advocating not talking to people unless they are already doing what we want. That's just Bush v.3.

Meanwhile, I think Obama is coming across as tougher than a lot of people have given him credit for.

McCain thinks he is playing Risk but Obama is going off on Monopoly or something.

Omg, McCain keeps coming, like a zombie!
"I know how to do things"
"I've been there!"
"Offshore drilling!"
"Brraaaaiinnsss"

He did let all that BS about naivity stand. Crap, Obama, are you channelling Kerry? Call him on it.

I put them even overall, honestly.

They're not talking about Russia at all anymore.

So, if either McCain or Obama were in power, Georgia wouldn't be invaded, the markets wouldn't have crashed, and each US citizen would have a swimming pool of oil in their yard?

That's some impressive hypothetical Presidenting.

Good use of tactics by John. Bad dirty trick - but good tactics.

Fillibustering Obama...

temporary offshore drilling for a drop in the bucket of the oil we need at the expense of the environment.

Barack Obama was pretty ruffled there.

Yeah, that was pretty good by McCain. There going to have a problem with even time, I think.

He did let all that BS about naivity stand. Crap, Obama, are you channelling Kerry? Call him on it.

I put them even overall, honestly.

Obama fell the fuck apart at the end.

Obama calmed down after Lehrer gave them a light dressing down and isn't hitting McCain hard and fast any more.
Apparently he was shamed into being a political pussy where McCain is like a fucking zombie juggernaut.

They're not talking about Russia at all anymore.

They jumped back to energy like it was their happy place...

Lehrer needs to reign in this fillibustering bullshit.

On the area of corporate taxes, did mccain mention Ireland about low corporate taxes? Aren't they in a big recession right now?

God, they handed McCain a chance to channel the only GOOD thing George W. Bush did the past 8 years.

Lehrer needs to reign in this fillibustering bullshit.

Fast. It's clearly becoming a problem. It's just rambling at times. "John, is that even addressing the issue anymore?"

I'm tired of the "I know..." I swear the guy is just trying to BS his resume and hoping no one will notice that he's had 26 years to address most of these issues.

obama better not let the 'i can work with our allies' stand...

Not after spain.

Lehrer needs to reign in this fillibustering bullshit.

Seriously. It's like McCain's turning this into a monologue.

Obama fell the fuck apart at the end.

Yea that was annoying me too.....

Obama seems to be holding his own...

Lehrer needs to reign in this fillibustering bullshit.

fucking horrible moderation.

obama better not let the 'i can work with our allies' stand...

Not after spain.

I'm pretty sure he brought Spain up already, and McCain never got to address it.

Obama seems to be holding his own...

For this being McCain's forte, he certainly is.

Yeah, but McCain's back to talking about he has the EXPERIENCE on allies...

I like Obama actually making a 'tie-it-all-up' finish

restoring america's image in the eyes of the world.....point obama

fucking horrible moderation.

Yeah. I'm far from impressed by Lehrer.

Yeah, but McCain's back to talking about he has the EXPERIENCE on allies...

I like Obama actually making a 'tie-it-all-up' finish

Still, I'd rate this dead even between the two of them. All around a good debate.

Wow, McCain just avoided the question altogether.

"Senator Obama still doesn't understand."

Whose fault is it that they would establish a base in Iraq? Yours, you clown.

There he goes again, "Senator Obama doesn't understand".

so obama wins? (so far?)

McCain wants more war, and more, and more... -_-

"I know how"
"I've been there"
"Obama doesn't understand"

These are clearly the money tags McCain's handlers hammered into his brain on the plane back from DC.

"blood and treasure" in iraq - point to McCain. some people are gonna vote purely on appeals to emotion.

Oh man, the green indy line just nose dived on McCain...

Ugh. McCain had a point with SDI, but rehashing his Iraq line wasn't effective.

I don't feel like either of them are doing a very good job of answering the questions from beginning to end....its getting annoying that McCain brings up his voting record all the time and Obama just keeps throwing out vague ideas. Not always, but both of them are just being politicians.

"Their presence is only matched by our absence" point to obama.

I don't feel like either of them are doing a very good job of answering the questions from beginning to end....its getting annoying that McCain brings up his voting record all the time and Obama just keeps throwing out vague ideas. Not always, but both of them are just being politicians.

Well... they are politicians. But I think Obama is doing a better job of not being a politician. He's seeming more down to Earth by talking about helping the Middle Class and such.

Nice rebuttal. Obama is back. Good.

"Their presence is only matched by our absence" point to obama.

that was a good one.

so obama wins? (so far?)

Sort of. McCain did really well with the Russia question, but other than that Obama has seemed to win.

"broader strategic vision" point obama

so obama wins? (so far?)
Going by the lines that do the thinking for me, I'd have to say yes.

Holy crap, another nose dive, including the red one...yikes...

Nice rebuttal. Obama is back. Good.

I think he's calmed down, now is what it is. Monologue McCain had him fuming at points.

Sort of. McCain did really well with the Russia question, but other than that Obama has seemed to win.

fair enough and ty I missed the russia bit . . .

I don't feel like either of them are doing a very good job of answering the questions from beginning to end....its getting annoying that McCain brings up his voting record all the time and Obama just keeps throwing out vague ideas. Not always, but both of them are just being politicians.

Well they both have to. All McCain has is his record, and all Obama has are his future plans.

lol. Obama = Bush

"We've seen this stubbornness before"???

Is he fucking kidding us?

Yeah, we HAVE seen, haven't we?

Yeah - unfortunately, McCain is gonna finish up on this 'Obama lacks experience' thing. A lot of people take the closing argument as the vindication of the debate.

MCain seems to be a one trick pony "he doesn't understand". Then why is he wiping the floor with you?

Wow, McCain just keeps repeating that lie. He already admitted Obama admitted that the surge was more effective than in his wildest dreams.

so obama wins? (so far?)

Hard to say, the finish is important.

I think Barack Obama should have picked up on the John McCain line that Iraq would be a breeding ground for Al Qaeda if the US leaves.

Barack Obama should have said '...and we have created that breeding ground, that's exactly what we've done and why we're now in this uncertain situation'.

Well... they are politicians. But I think Obama is doing a better job of not being a politician. He's seeming more down to Earth by talking about helping the Middle Class and such.

This is true....but some of Obamas ideas really don't jive with me. I hate politicians....

Going by the lines that do the thinking for me, I'd have to say yes.

Holy crap, another nose dive, including the red one...yikes...

Lines? You're doing lines in the middle of a debate?

I've heard of drinking games...but man...

Holy shit, low blow. McCain is trying to compare Obama to this administration. Obama needs to slam that old codger's head right through his own layer of built up bullshit and lies.

So how many times as "surge" been mentioned.

Oh he knows the vets as well. Does he know me?

Yeah, CNN informs me that people aren't buying what McCain is selling right now.

McCain sounding much too rehearsed there...

So how many times as "surge" been mentioned.

Oh he knows the vets as well. Does he know me?
Have you not been paying attention? McCain knows how to do everything. He has also been everywhere you will ever talk about.


Obama is fucking throwing it.

lol. Obama = Bush

It's a nice trick - identifying Bush with the Democrats.

Well, obviously McCain doesn't want any part of it.

Will Obama let it stand? 90%...

Have you not been paying attention? McCain knows how to do everything. He has also been everywhere you will ever talk about.

But does he know me?

Neo, or whoever, what's the ratio right now?

Have you not been paying attention? McCain knows how to do everything. He has also been everywhere you will ever talk about.


Obama is fucking throwing it.

I've been to Canada, France, and the Netherlands (or at least their colonies). But that doesn't mean I know foreign policy.

That's it? What the fuck? That was so anti-climactic.

It's amazing how those blue and yelow lines just drop whenever McCain starts talking.

McCain is invoking the spirit of prisoner of war!
Is that what is telling him how to do everything?
"I know how to win a war"
"I know how to fix the economy"
"I know how to deal with other nations"

Then what the fuck do you plan to fucking do? Jesus.

Chalking that up, in totality to Obama personally.

44 to 21

It's a nice trick - identifying Bush with the Democrats.

Well, obviously McCain doesn't want any part of it.

Will Obama let it stand? 90%...

He mentioned the 90% back when they were still talking finance, and McCain blathered on a few nonspecific instances when he went against Bush.

Though I agree he needs to bring it up again.

One thing's for sure; they both have really nice suits.

ABC says McCain did well on the economy and Obama did well in foreign policy.... o.O

looks like CNN is going to fact check all the statements they disagreed on.

Just about 90 minutes, as scheduled. McCain's closing statement needed to be updated to include some mention of the first 40 minutes. Other than that he seems to have recited all the lines well enough.

That was a crap debate. Honestly, I'm disappointed. I would have liked a better wrapup for each of them.

McCain was permitted to let a lot slip by.

keep in mind, this is the area that McCain is strongest in. And I think by reasonable measure, overall, Obama won.

obama . . .not landslide but definatly obama

McCain is invoking the spirit of prisoner of war!
Is that what is telling him how to do everything?
"I know how to win a war"
"I know how to fix the economy"
"I know how to deal with other nations"

Then what the fuck do you plan to fucking do? Jesus.

Yeah - they let McCain get away with pretty much not declaring any policy.

Shame. I'd liked to have seen what he had to say.

Then again - 'complete spending freeze' was the one policy point he REALLY stood up on...

Well, that's the first part, the second part is who wins the media war. John Kerry was perceived the have won the debate during, but lost the media battle after.

I'm watching FOX, they're being reasonably fair but they're just summing up.

ABC says McCain did well on the economy and Obama did well in foreign policy.... o.OI gotta disagree with ABC this time.

44 to 21

Where are you getting those numbers, and what do they correspond to?

I watched Jaws during the entire thing.

>.>

That was a crap debate. Honestly, I'm disappointed. I would have liked a better wrapup for each of them.

McCain was permitted to let a lot slip by.

It wasn't great, but are they ever?

I think they should have fought....that would have been a great ending!

The CNN people are saying that both did a lot better than expected in their perceived weaknesses, McCain on the economy and Obama on foreign policy.

The soundbite of the night according to FOX is....

Probably wasn't one.

ABC says McCain did well on the economy and Obama did well in foreign policy.... o.O
ABC must have been playing the drinking game where they took a shot every time McCain said he knows how to do something.

looks like CNN is going to fact check all the statements they disagreed on.

We'll see...I imagine it's a lot of people like us scrambling all over Google...

Yeah - they let McCain get away with pretty much not declaring any policy.

Shame. I'd liked to have seen what he had to say.

Then again - 'complete spending freeze' was the one policy point he REALLY stood up on...
Did you notice what the spending freeze specifically excluded? Defense spending, what is costing the nation the majority of the money it is spending.

anyone else freaked out by McCains complete spending freeze?

McCain seemed intimidated. If he's intimidated by Obama, what will he be like when he meets with Putin? Jong-Il? Chavez? Letterman?

Did you notice what the spending freeze specifically excluded? Defense spending, what is costing the nation the majority of the money it is spending.

Funny, that. Though it did serve as a nice transition into the rest of the debate.

44 to 21

For Obama, I hope?

Fox seems to be leaning on McCain. They seem to be relating to the 'appeal to emotion' stuff... and seem to be attacking Obama for being too well spoken.

Piss poor debate. I didn't find a clear winner. Obama could have done it if he slammed mccain on the experience jabs.

Moderation sucked. We probably would have had a clear winner if the moderation was on the ball....

This was totally McCain's debate to have and he did poorly relative to that. I think there is no argument to be had there.

I watched Jaws during the entire thing.

>.>Candidates go into the cage, cage goes in the water. Sharks in the water...our shark...

CNN made a good point, if neither candidate came out "ahead" doesn't that hurt McCain who is trailing?

Amazing on CNN, it seemed the live polling of Independents all in all tipped to Obama.

anyone else freaked out by McCains complete spending freeze?
Single most ridiculous thing he said, out of all the ridiculous stuff.

Fox seems to be leaning on McCain. They seem to be relating to the 'appeal to emotion' stuff... and seem to be attacking Obama for being too well spoken.

"Fox is supporting a Republican."

Well, fuck, THIS is NEWS!

The CBS people are saying that that "you were wrong, you were wrong, you were wrong" polled really well.

CNN made a good point, if neither candidate came out "ahead" doesn't that hurt McCain who is trailing?

Especially when foreign policy is McCain's strong point.

Candidates go into the cage, cage goes in the water. Sharks in the water...our shark...

I figure that I know about as much about the candidates now than I did before I watched the movie. :tongue:

The veteran thing pisses me off. I'm so tired of McCain saying he knows veterans. So, John, then why are you denying them the benefits that created the middle class in the last century? Why don't you want to look out for them, Mr. McCain?

As TBF said, does he know me?

CNN made a good point, if neither candidate came out "ahead" doesn't that hurt McCain who is trailing?

Certainly one can't called a "tie" in the debate mutually beneficial if maintaining the status quo benefits one candidate over the other.

"Fox is supporting a Republican."

Well, fuck, THIS is NEWS! Fox, conservative, shocking!

Especially when foreign policy is McCain's strong point.

To be fair, literally half the debate was about the economy, which is McCain's weakness.

To be fair, my dad is going to watch the debate now, so I guess I'm going to too. XD

Fox suggests Obama lost points by not hitting McCain hard enough on being linked to Bush.

I agree.

The veteran thing pisses me off. I'm so tired of McCain saying he knows veterans. So, John, then why are you denying them the benefits that created the middle class in the last century? Why don't you want to look out for them, Mr. McCain?

As TBF said, does he know me?McCain voted against a VA funding bill if I am correct and had a dispute in a town hall meeting with a veteran who called him on it.

Yeah, Fox is right about that. It's funny that Fox is saying that and by doing so doing it for Obama.

I support McCain, but I agree with all of you that he did not support himself at all. Anybody notice how he would rarely if ever look at Obama. It was sort of a I am better than you posture or something.

I heard from some Lehrer was not doing so good, I think Jim did great moderation.

The main soundbite might be that John McCain simply talked about the past, Barack Obama talked about the future.

Hopefully.

McCain voted against a VA funding bill if I am correct and had a dispute in a town hall meeting with a veteran who called him on it.

Yes, he voted against it.

I support McCain, but I agree with all of you that he did not support himself at all. Anybody notice how he would rarely if ever look at Obama. It was sort of a I am better than you posture or something.

He's a mediocre speaker, at best. It's pretty normal to get tunnel vision when you're in front of the camera, especially when it's hard for you to be a public speaker. *nods*

Obama wins. He actually made points, instead of rambling about something that was largely unrelated accept for history. I mean, during the Afghanistan segment, Obama spoke about it and something else I forget while McCain emphasised that he had experience through Kosovo or something. And then he kept saying, "Obama doesn't understand <insert whatever he claims Obama doesn't understand here>." He never really made many good points. Had he done so, he would have fared much better, but Obama won this one.

Anyway, back to bed for me, I'm not sure it was worth getting up for that one.

I know this is probably extremly nit picky but seeing how people judge apperances...

Obama, he stutters a lot....

McCain, what was going on with his eyes? Did he have something in them? Everytime he spoke his eyes were blinking like crazy.

Fox suggests Obama lost points by not hitting McCain hard enough on being linked to Bush.

I agree.

Especially since that was supposed to be at the core of his message. Similarly, McCain's history-lesson approach didn't help his claim toward being the change candidate. Big cracks in the facade of both campaigns.

I recognize I am too far from objective to judge this thing fairly and I don't know how the debate played with soft voters, which will be the critical thing.

McCain didn't drool on himself, so maybe he exceeded expectations.

Personally, I thought Obama kicked ass.

NBC apparently got Biden to respond as a pundit. They offered to give Palin equal time to respond, but the campaign declined. They sent in Guiliani instead.

Given her piss-poor response to Katie Couric, can't say I blame them for keeping Sarah muzzled.

Given decades of experience, McCain should have owned Obama. He had some points, but Obama was strong, for the most part.

By my reckoning - that probably means McCain didn't gain the bounce.

Dude, I think it's McCain's treatment of Palin that is sexist. They are afraid to let her speak. They just want her to look pretty.

NBC apparently got Biden to respond as a pundit. They offered to give Palin equal time to respond, but the campaign declined. They sent in Guiliani instead.

Given her piss-poor response to Katie Couric, can't say I blame them for keeping Sarah muzzled.

Sexist. :-p

McCain, what was going on with his eyes? Did he have something in them? Everytime he spoke his eyes were blinking like crazy.

We had a theory earlier that McCain's got a cold or something. He kept on coughing and clearing his throat and sounded nasally.

NBC apparently got Biden to respond as a pundit. They offered to give Palin equal time to respond, but the campaign declined. They sent in Guiliani instead.

Given her piss-poor response to Katie Couric, can't say I blame them for keeping Sarah muzzled.
Ouch...

To be fair, literally half the debate was about the economy, which is McCain's weakness.
Obama was hammering him on foreign issues too until Jim Lehrer put a stop to the back and forth and let McCain drone on and on, and on.

Biden is standing by for CNN as well as a pundit, so he is gonna be on NBC and CNN tonight.

"existential crisis to Israel"?

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

That one had me rolling on the floor.

NBC apparently got Biden to respond as a pundit. They offered to give Palin equal time to respond, but the campaign declined. They sent in Guiliani instead.

Given her piss-poor response to Katie Couric, can't say I blame them for keeping Sarah muzzled.
Who wants to bet they send Guiliani to the VP debate instead of Palin.

Dude, I think it's McCain's treatment of Palin that is sexist. They are afraid to let her speak. They just want her to look pretty.

After hearing her speak, it is rather obvious why they are doing it. She couldn't answer "so, how are your children?" is she had to.

The bracelet battle, it's like 13 year old schoolgirls.

That's bad. Obama has to...

And he just counter-braceleted! :D

we are senators, we have bracelets. lol

Ooh. nailed him with a bracelet riposte. Glad he didn't let another appeal to emotion slide

You realize that for those of us who are unable to watch the debate this exchange is entirely meaningless, right? If the debate's still going on does anyone know where I can find live streaming video online?

Ouch, Fox is droning on and on about how this was a draw and that favors Obama. When Fox calls it in favor of Obama overall, that's a problem for the conservative.

I think McCain sounded weary at times. Plus his view is skewed by a Cold War perspective.

The Cold War era is over. The Russia of the past isn't the same Russia of today.

And Palin and McCain speak with a Cold War attutitude.

Was anyone else ticked off at McCain about the "meeting without preconditions" thing?

He kept going on about it like Obama was planning to campaign with Ahmenijhad.

(BTW, not that I could say it myself, but I though it funny -- although not important--that of all the foreign leader names that were being thrown around, it was John "Mr. Experience" McCain that had trouble with one)>

You realize that for those of us who are unable to watch this exchange is entirely meaningless, right? If the debate's still going on does anyone know where I can find live streaming video online? It was on CNN streaming. Maybe it will repeat.

You realize that for those of us who are unable to watch the debate this exchange is entirely meaningless, right? If the debate's still going on does anyone know where I can find live streaming video online?

Dead veterans (or their moms) gave McCain bracelets.

It was his second big appeal to emotion, but then Obama produced a bracelt story of his own, kinda shutting it out a bit.

Well as a biased person looking at this....and trying to eliminate that as much as I can, Obama wins major.

Ouch, Fox is droning on and on about how this was a draw and that favors Obama. When Fox calls it in favor of Obama overall, that's a problem for the conservative.

Agreed.

The Fox handcount of independents leads advantage to Obama too.

That CAN'T be a good thing.

McCain couldn't even pronounce Ahmadinejad's name right. He may be a veteran, but I'm not so sure that he can envision the huge-ass picture the size of Mt. Everest.

I think McCain sounded weary at times. Plus his view is skewed by a Cold War perspective.

The Cold War era is over. The Russia of the past isn't the same Russia of today.

And Palin and McCain speak with a Cold War attutitude.

I also thought it odd when McCain talked about how he had been to Georgia, seen a poster of Putin, and knew "there would be a problem" (or something to that effect) with an invasion.

Oh, yeah, why didn't you frickin' do or say something to prevent what happened?

EDIT: Here's the quote from the transcript:

By the way, I went there once, and we went inside and drove in, and there was a huge poster. And this is -- this is Georgian territory. And there was a huge poster of Vladimir Putin, and it said, "Vladimir Putin, our president."

It was very clear, the Russian intentions towards Georgia. They were just waiting to seize the opportunity.

Ok, I view it as a tie with Obama ahead on domestic policy and McCain ahead on foreign policy. However, like an appellate court decision, if there is a tie, then the original decision stands. In other words, a tie means, in a practical sense, Obama wins.

The race is Obama's to lose, not McCain's to win. Next week Palin v. Biden, look forward to that, Biden will eat her lunch IMO.

Ok, I view it as a tie with Obama ahead on domestic policy and McCain ahead on foreign policy. However, like an appellate court decision, if there is a tie, then the original decision stands. In other words, a tie means, in a practical sense, Obama wins.

The race is Obama's to lose, not McCain's to win. Next week Palin v. Biden, look forward to that, Biden will eat her lunch IMO. well said!

Ok, I view it as a tie with Obama ahead on domestic policy and McCain ahead on foreign policy. However, like an appellate court decision, if there is a tie, then the original decision stands. In other words, a tie means, in a practical sense, Obama wins.

The race is Obama's to lose, not McCain's to win. Next week Palin v. Biden, look forward to that, Biden will eat her lunch IMO.

agreed, McCain is behind, all Obama needs to do is stop him from getting MORE support. If they come out equal, he's still ahead.

Ok, I view it as a tie with Obama ahead on domestic policy and McCain ahead on foreign policy. However, like an appellate court decision, if there is a tie, then the original decision stands. In other words, a tie means, in a practical sense, Obama wins.

The race is Obama's to lose, not McCain's to win. Next week Palin v. Biden, look forward to that, Biden will eat her lunch IMO.

He'll steal her lunch and eat it???

Hard to say, the finish is important.

I think Barack Obama should have picked up on the John McCain line that Iraq would be a breeding ground for Al Qaeda if the US leaves.

Barack Obama should have said '...and we have created that breeding ground, that's exactly what we've done and why we're now in this uncertain situation'.

I agree with you Barringtonia! But I think that Obama did very well in this debate and as another comment said, if he's so inexperienced and doesn't understand, then why is he wiping the floor with you McCain!!!??? hmmmm...???? lol :)

I know this is probably extremly nit picky but seeing how people judge apperances...

Obama, he stutters a lot....

McCain, what was going on with his eyes? Did he have something in them? Everytime he spoke his eyes were blinking like crazy.

Someone mentioned the blinking thing earlier. They said he blinked more when he lied.

Was anyone else ticked off at McCain about the "meeting without preconditions" thing?

He kept going on about it like Obama was planning to campaign with Ahmenijhad.

(BTW, not that I could say it myself, but I though it funny -- although not important--that of all the foreign leader names that were being thrown around, it was John "Mr. Experience" McCain that had trouble with one)>Yes! :hail:

Someone mentioned the blinking thing earlier. They said he blinked more when he lied.

Yeah you can't help but think that McCain looks SO untrustworthy, I thought while watching the debate.

Ok, I view it as a tie with Obama ahead on domestic policy and McCain ahead on foreign policy. However, like an appellate court decision, if there is a tie, then the original decision stands. In other words, a tie means, in a practical sense, Obama wins.

I liked Obama when he said that no nation can exist strongly with a 'hyper military' mentality and still be good on domestic.

Plus McCain won't let go of Iraq. I am not sure about most voters, but I am tired of Iraq getting the bulk of funds when the ship is sinking at home. Frankly in my mind, Iraq isn't worth half the attention now than the economy that is plaguing America now. If we can't fix the economy then it's going to be hard to keep a military presence anywhere else.

Looks like CNN and CBS are streaming it. FOX and NBC's websites confuse me too much to tell whether they are or not.

edit: I'm watching the pregame show on CNN.com. The streaming video applet has a volume slider, but it seems the only settings the sound has are loud, loud, and off. :(

If you somehow find this response in the billion pages between when you posted it and I replied: Thanks. I caught the debate just in time, though my 6 month old cried every time she saw McCain.

Someone mentioned the blinking thing earlier. They said he blinked more when he lied.

Was me - watch him whenever he gets into something that is pushing the boundaries a bit. he's got a built in lie-detector... could be handy if he IS president.

Oh OUCH. From CNN: we are getting emails, why did we talk to Biden and not Palin? well we would have loved to talk to Palin, we asked her to speak with us, she declined.

Oh OUCH. From CNN: we are getting emails, why did we talk to Biden and not Palin? well we would have loved to talk to Palin, we asked her to speak with us, she declined.Glad Wolf pointed that out.

one of cnn's analysts: McCain needed a game change here, and he didn't get it.

agreed, McCain is behind, all Obama needs to do is stop him from getting MORE support. If they come out equal, he's still ahead.

I think it's important to remember the beating McCain has gotten in the press this week, when looking at his and Obama's current poll numbers. If Congress comes to some agreement on the economy in a timely manner (say, within the week), McCain won't have to absorb that damage any longer. We're in a new news cycle now.

I don't agree with this being a debate thread. I think this ought to be a cake thread.

Cheesecake: Pie or cake?



:D

Was me - watch him whenever he gets into something that is pushing the boundaries a bit. he's got a built in lie-detector... could be handy if he IS president.

Not the first time we've had someone like that in politics. It was once pointed out to me that, during the 9/11 commission, Condi started shaking her head every time she mentioned the administration not having any warning. I don't know if that's true or not, but it wouldn't surprise me. Lots of people have some physiological reaction when they lie. Of course, it's not consistent between people, which is why polygraph tests are useless.

Cheesecake: Pie or cake?



:D

Cheesecake and Boston Cream Pie are involved in a pie-cake exchange program. Cheesecake is a pie hanging around with the cakes and Boston Cream Pie is a cake visiting with the pies. *nod*

Not the first time we've had someone like that in politics. It was once pointed out to me that, during the 9/11 commission, Condi started shaking her head every time she mentioned the administration not having any warning. I don't know if that's true or not, but it wouldn't surprise me. Lots of people have some physiological reaction when they lie. Of course, it's not consistent between people, which is why polygraph tests are useless.

The FBI manual on interrogation helpfully informs the reader that repetitive movements can be proof of either deceit *or* honesty. Gotta love FOIA. :tongue:

Cheesecake and Boston Cream Pie are involved in a pie-cake exchange program. Cheesecake is a pie hanging around with the cakes and Boston Cream Pie is a cake visiting with the pies. *nod*

The cake is a lie? :eek:

Obama needs to ask him what a 'win in Iraq' means...

Yeah, I thought Obama should have countered with that several times. McCain talks like there is a referee's whistle, a scoreboard, and a trophy at the end.

It was on CNN streaming. Maybe it will repeat.

Funny thing, CNN won't let me watch videos. I need to have acrobat viewer 8.0 or higher. Apparently they use a different sort of math than I do because 9 isn't high enough.

The cake is a lie? :eek:

The cake engages in disinformation. *nod*

Yeah, I thought Obama should have countered with that several times. McCain talks like there is a referee's whistle, a scoreboard, and a trophy at the end.

I think he chose the 'what about Afghanistan? Remember Afghanistan? You know, the war we didn't send a troop surge into?' approach.

Funny thing, CNN won't let me watch videos. I need to have acrobat viewer 8.0 or higher. Apparently they use a different sort of math than I do because 9 isn't high enough.

Do you have CSpan? They are reairing it again on the station.

Oh OUCH. From CNN: we are getting emails, why did we talk to Biden and not Palin? well we would have loved to talk to Palin, we asked her to speak with us, she declined.

allow me to fill in for sarah.

(shoots some shit to get into charater)
*ahem*

i thought that john mccain did exactly what he needed to do by helping with the, um, health care reform and the tax reductions by reducing taxes. oh, and it's totally all about jobs and job creation and the creating of scary thing - trade! - by abolishing earmarks which i think are, uh, bad and always, um, have. also, i was miss congeniality once and can see zimbabwe from my house.

I am going to quote myself from the other thread.


Well, that debate was fun.

My general feeling is that Obama won it overall, but that John McCain kept him from making a few points he really should have since he kept talking over Obama when Obama tried to respond to what he said.

Much of McCain's answers were emotive, empty rhetoric that didn't really answer the question and was simply meant to make him "look" better. There was a small amount of that in Obama's responses as well, but not anywhere near as much.

Obama could use a bit of improvement, of course. A couple of things could've been wrapped up a bit more succinctly, and he needs to try and avoid stumbling as much as he was. Otherwise, though, he walloped McCain and demonstrated significantly that he was actually willing to discuss positions and issues in an informative manner rather than continue to work up empty rhetoric.

That's my feeling about it, anyway.

Yeah, I thought Obama should have countered with that several times. McCain talks like there is a referee's whistle, a scoreboard, and a trophy at the end.

i was informed there would be a checkered flag

The cake engages in disinformation. *nod*

And pie is complicit?