NationStates Jolt Archive

Anybody else think that christians are being bashed by almost everyone?

no. its just you.

really cause we seem to be targeted.

no :confused:

I could guess from OP that your Christian right?

edit:

really cause we seem to be targeted.

a victim complex is a dangerous thing to have

yea i am. And it seems that we get ridiculed a lot.

feels that way some times. it seems like the atheists all have it out for christinaity mainly

feels that way some times. it seems like the atheists all have it out for christinaity mainly

Yea and what gets on my nerves is us christians aren't doing anything. We stand back and watch atheists rise into power!!!

Oh no, of course not. I love christians what with their imposing their religion upon me, constantly reminding me i'll go to hell if I don't accept jesus, waging long campaigns to gets laws that back their belief system but go against forming a 'free' society...no thats all fine so I just sit back and say nothing -.-

Depends what you mean by bashed and 'everyone', if by bashed you merely mean criticized, and by everyone you mean those who AREN'T Christian, then you're assessment may be accurate.

Anybody else think that christians are being bashed by almost everyone?

Not almost everyone, just occassionally a few noisy ones that don't have anything better to do. :(

God damn it, why is the persecution complex so strong in Christianity? Christianity gets special treatment in our society, so stop playing the god damn victim for once.

Yea and what gets on my nerves is us christians aren't doing anything. We stand back and watch atheists rise into power!!!

BBAAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH, OOHHHHHHHOHOHOHOHO....

Oh no, of course not. I love christians what with their imposing their religion upon me, constantly reminding me i'll go to hell if I don't accept jesus, waging long campaigns to gets laws that back their belief system but go against forming a 'free' society...no thats all fine so I just sit back and say nothing -.-

Sorry that we speak the truth. Wow getting a little defensive here aren't we!

Anybody else think that christians are being bashed by almost everyone?

Nope. And besides, bashing is a strong term. It's more of a constructive criticism from one side and the other.;)

Nope. And besides, bashing is a strong term. It's more of a constructive criticism from one side and the other.;)

Yea STRONG constructive criticism!

yea i am. And it seems that we get ridiculed a lot.

so? have faith and all that jazz

also I'd guess your a US citizen

Yea and what gets on my nerves is us christians aren't doing anything. We stand back and watch atheists rise into power!!!

omg it will be the atheist apocalypse! (http://www.viruscomix.com/page433.html)

Yea STRONG constructive criticism!

Bullshit. If anything, religion in general and Christianity in particular get treated with the kiddie gloves.

Sorry that we speak the truth. Wow getting a little defensive here aren't we!

Technically, you can't claim to speak the truth as the only one who knows the truth is God.

*alternate Christian viewpoint


This happens to any large/majority group though in a democratic society though. It's not right, but it happens. It's just more noticeable in a liberal environment, such as NSG.

so? have faith and all that jazz

also I'd guess your a US citizen



omg it will be the atheist apocalypse! (http://www.viruscomix.com/page433.html)

I am from the US

Que the "Help I'm being oppressed!" pie chart in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...

Bullshit. If anything, religion in general and Christianity in particular get treated with the kiddie gloves.

Kiddie Gloves? Where are you from? obviously not the US

Anybody else think that christians are being bashed by almost everyone?

No.

Que the "Help I'm being oppressed!" pie chart in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...

Thy will be done
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3587/100de9nl9.gif

Sorry that we speak the truth. Wow getting a little defensive here aren't we!

You can't see why that attitude would attract criticism at all?

This happens to any large/majority group though in a democratic society though. It's not right, but it happens. It's just more noticeable in a liberal environment, such as NSG.

isn't the majority more agnostic (or rather religion as long as its convenient) though

I am from the US

hmmm and I have a feeling for one the center South states...is it Arkansas?

do you see what I'm getting at here?

Thy will be done
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3587/100de9nl9.gif

If that was true I wouldn't be the only christian on here arguing!

isn't the majority more agnostic (or rather religion as long as its convenient) though



hmmm and I have a feeling for one the center South states...is it Arkansas?

do you see what I'm getting at here?

Don't Mess With TEXAS!!!

isn't the majority more agnostic (or rather religion as long as its convenient) though


About a 1/3 of the world is Christian, I would say that's a rather large percentage. However, in the US, Christians are a majority.

If that was true I wouldn't be the only christian on here arguing!

I don't make the .gifs, I just posted them when they're called upon :p

Thy will be done
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3587/100de9nl9.gif



You can't see why that attitude would attract criticism at all?

That's the only way I can communicate with you guys!

Anybody else think that christians are being bashed by almost everyone?

How about you define 'almost everyone' and 'bashing' because I think I might have missed the news item where Christians in the US were being imprisoned without trial, herded into death camps as part of some Bush's 'War on Christianity'. Are Christians being barred from public office?

About a 1/3 of the world is Christian, I would say that's a rather large percentage. However, in the US, Christians are a majority.

Majority isn't everyone!!!

If that was true I wouldn't be the only christian on here arguing!

You're not, there are loads of Christians on nsg.

How about you define 'almost everyone' and 'bashing' because I think I might have missed the news item where Christians in the US were being imprisoned without trial, herded into death camps as part of some Bush's 'War on Christianity'. Are Christians being barred from public office?

Look you guys are proving my point as we speak!!!

How about you define 'almost everyone' and 'bashing' because I think I might have missed the news item where Christians in the US were being imprisoned without trial, herded into death camps as part of some Bush's 'War on Christianity'. Are Christians being barred from public office?

I missed the part where anyone was being herded into death camps...

I'm pretty sure TI said "bashed" not "persecuted" (Christianity has already gone through that phase...)

Location: Athens, Georgia ;)

But what US are YOU living in? To even get elected to ANY public office, you're practically required to be a Christian. A large portion of Americans say that we should teach biblical myth in science class. We have God on our money and in our pledge (that children say every morning).



Right, because NSG is a representative population. :rolleyes:

If political leaders were all christians creation would be taught in schools!!

Kiddie Gloves? Where are you from? obviously not the US
Location: Athens, Georgia ;)

But what US are YOU living in? To even get elected to ANY public office, you're practically required to be a Christian. A large portion of Americans say that we should teach biblical myth in science class. We have God on our money and in our pledge (that children say every morning).

If that was true I wouldn't be the only christian on here arguing!

Right, because NSG is a representative population. :rolleyes:

Look you guys are proving my point as we speak!!!

How is asking you to define your terms 'bashing' you?

Sorry that we speak the truth. Wow getting a little defensive here aren't we!
See that, right there? That's why you get bashed. Learn what truth really is. No religion knows the truth, not that they can prove. It says so, in the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, the FSM Handbook . . . PROVE IT!

See that, right there? That's why you get bashed. Learn what truth really is. No religion knows the truth, not that they can prove. It says so, in the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, the FSM Handbook . . . PROVE IT!

True. but can you explain the truth!

Right, because all Christians are anti-science fools like yourself. :rolleyes:

Actually I love science, except one topic!

If political leaders were all christians creation would be taught in schools!!

Right, because all Christians are anti-science fools like yourself. :rolleyes:

Anybody else think that christians are being bashed by almost everyone?

Nah, just you. Granted there are a few who constantly bash Christianity for little real reason *Gives harsh look at Fass* but they're usually against all religion. Or all other religions *Gives harsh look at RADICAL Muslims*

Fixed

You mean all political leaders weren't idiots already!?!!? :p

If political leaders were all christians creation would be taught in schools!!


Whoa hoss, hold up there. I'm a Christian and a conservative Christian to boot and I do not believe in creationism. So if I were a political leader I can say with all honesty that nope creationism would not be taught in schools.

Many Christians do not follow creationism teachings.

Anybody else think that christians are being bashed by almost everyone?

Yes, quite a lot of people. They're all wrong too of course...

If political leaders were all IDIOT christians creation would be taught in schools!!

Fixed

Logging off: Jesus <3 u!!!




John 3:16 Learn It! Live It! Love It!

If political leaders were all christians creation would be taught in schools!!

The single largest Christian church in the US is the Catholic Church, they believe in evolution. Nutjob evangelicals are not the only Christians.

True. but can you explain the truth!

I'm willing to admit that I don't know . . . but I don't have your insecurities to deal with either.

I'm willing to admit that I don't know . . . but I don't have your insecurities to deal with either.

Insecurities? I'm very secure

Yea and what gets on my nerves is us christians aren't doing anything. We stand back and watch atheists rise into power!!!

I'm guessing you live in the US, right? Would you care to guess how many Congressmen and Senators openly identify themselves as Atheist and how many as 'non-religious'?

What about the UK where Christianity is grasping more power than ever before, controlling much of the education system and continuing to have unelected bishops in the upper house of our legislature?

Kiddie Gloves? Where are you from? obviously not the US

lol WHAT? you think Christians in the US DON'T get treated with kiddie gloves???? this in the country where the recent presidents have never been anything BUT Christian and George Bush was elected even after saying he was "chosen by God" to rule the country. Come the fuck on. You think your life is bad try living as a Christian in essentially any non-western country in the world and maybe you'd have some appreciation of exactly how ridiculously Christian the US of A is.

Anybody else think that christians are being bashed by almost everyone?
No.

God damn it, why is the persecution complex so strong in Christianity? Christianity gets special treatment in our society, so stop playing the god damn victim for once.

Suppose you believed that the Bible was literally inerrant and prophecied the future. There are numerous passages which suggest that all Christians will be persecuted, so you have to convince yourself that you are being persecuted.

There's also the philosophy of Presuppositionism as presented by the Dutch theologian van Til: the details are a little tricky, but the upshot is that anyone to adheres to the doctrine will see anything short of complete Christian domination as anti-Christian. When someone regards neutrality as hostility then they begin to see persecution everywhere.

Insecurities? I'm very secure

Ok so a very secure Christian doesn't worry about others opinions of their faith. Do you catch my drift?

I'm not saying that it isn't discerning a wee bit that some people feel the need to denegrate our faith. But you have to understand that is an internal issue they have and it is nothing more than how they are dealing with it.

Respect them enough to be free with their thoughts and opinions. Turn the other cheek in other words. :)

If political leaders were all christians creation would be taught in schools!!

creationism is bullshit and disprovable bullshit too. Personally i think that some religions are also ridiculous but I can't prove them wrong so I'll try not to bash em but Creationism???

Are you serious? Are you seriously saying that in the US, a country where the vast majority of the country is christian, a country where practically all elected officials are christian, everyone is against christians? Are you seriously saying that because they don't support teaching unscientific and idiotic bullshit in schools, these elected officials aren't actually christian? Are you seriously saying that the atheists are rising into power? What, pray tell, do you think christians should do about this? Enact laws to prevent atheists from voting or holding office? Do you seriously think that everyone bashes christians, when the majority of people in the US are christian themselves? Do you seriously believe any of this?

nicely put :)

I missed the part where anyone was being herded into death camps...

I'm pretty sure TI said "bashed" not "persecuted" (Christianity has already gone through that phase...)

I didn't say anyone was being herded into death camps - I asked what TI meant by bashed as I really don't understand. Unfortunately TI doesn't seem to have the good manners to answer. I am getting the picture from TI's other posts bashing means 'daring to disagree with'.

Are you serious? Are you seriously saying that in the US, a country where the vast majority of the country is christian, a country where practically all elected officials are christian, everyone is against christians? Are you seriously saying that because they don't support teaching unscientific and idiotic bullshit in schools, these elected officials aren't actually christian? Are you seriously saying that the atheists are rising into power? What, pray tell, do you think christians should do about this? Enact laws to prevent atheists from voting or holding office? Do you seriously think that everyone bashes christians, when the majority of people in the US are christian themselves? Do you seriously believe any of this?

creationism is bullshit and disprovable bullshit too. Personally i think that some religions are also ridiculous but I can't prove them wrong so I'll try not to bash em but Creationism???

Technically it's not disprovable for the same reasons that you can't prove you didn't come into existence three seconds ago with a full set of memories.

see im pretty sure that while most people don't go out of their way top bash Christianity they will go out of their way to educate someone like yourself on how idiotic the notions you hold are.

Technically it's not disprovable for the same reasons that you can't prove you didn't come into existence three seconds ago with a full set of memories.

true but there has been visible (easily visible) proof of evolution such as pepper moths in the UK. On the other hand it is always possible to get around that by saying "god did it" but most people here would not regard that as a valid argument.

true but there has been visible (easily visible) proof of evolution such as pepper moths in the UK. On the other hand it is always possible to get around that by saying "god did it" but most people here would not regard that as a valid argument.

I'm not saying it's a particularly valid explanation, but I try to keep a respectable part of my mind open to the idea that the entire universe is just a figment of my imagination. When it's brought up that is, not in everyday life, that would be annoying and impractical.

It is however as I understand it fairly easy to show that it has no effect for most intents and purposes though.

lol fair enough. Though for any argument you have to work from some kind of premise. Even if its just that the universe does actually exist.

nicely put :)

Thank you. Man, this thread is timewarping all over the place.

I honestly don't know where to begin with this. Christianity is the largest religion in the world followed by Islam and Judaism. Moderate christians do not get bashed as you put it because people generally respect these beliefs. However when other Christians try to teach their belief, such as Creationism, as fact that's when the bashing begins.

Lesson: Don't try to teach something as science if there is no evidence supporting the theory.

Move to Saudi Arabia if you want to see Christians being prosecuted and oppressed. I myself am no more anti-God than I am anti-Thor or anti-Quetzacoatl.

And about Creationism in schools: Either teach all different creation myths or none of them ;)

hey man thor is awesome! don't mess with him or he'll hammer you lol

Thank you. Man, this thread is timewarping all over the place.

np and ya its insane

Logging off: Jesus <3 u!!!




John 3:16 Learn It! Live It! Love It!

Wow. I guess everything really is bigger in Texas.

You know, like your ego. But not like your cranial capacity.

Move to Saudi Arabia if you want to see Christians being prosecuted and oppressed. I myself am no more anti-God than I am anti-Thor or anti-Quetzacoatl.

And about Creationism in schools: Either teach all different creation myths or none of them ;)

really cause we seem to be targeted.

it says in the Bible that this would happen, dont act so surprised

Anybody else think that christians are being bashed by almost everyone?

consider that:

1) you become what you meditate upon, and

2) christians meditate upon a man being crucified (and being unjustly persecuted, etc., etc.).

then,

you do the math.

Anybody else think that christians are being bashed by almost everyone?

Only Christians who seem to thrive on a persecution complex. They are the dominant religion in the world with over two billion followers (and untold wealth and political power), but would still like us to believe they are a small band of martyrs hiding in the catacombs of Rome.

it seems that we get ridiculed a lot.
Some people see blind faith in a very old collection of stories as being worthy of ridicule.

For myself, I don't intentionally single out Christianity because I feel it's somehow more worthy of ridicule than other religions - it's just that it is the most prevalent religion where I grew up and where I live, and so it's in my face a lot more often than any other flavours.

This 'bashing' that you and others perceive seems to me to be akin to toys being thrown from the pram. A lot of Christians seem to have some sense that their beliefs should be held apart from discussion, criticism or scrutiny, that they should be allowed to continue to dominate political life (and society in general) the same old way that they've been doing for centuries.

There is a groundswell of objection to this way of doing things that, largely thanks to the way that the Internet facilitates communication between people in far flung places, is finally being heard, and I can't say that I'm sad to see it. You perceive this as 'bashing' - I can live with that.

I don't, and wont, go out of my way to track down religious people and ridicule them. However, when people attempt to change the way that I live my life, or to legislate what I can and can't do in the society I live in, in order to comply with their blinkered interpretation of some old stories, or when they attempt to present those stories as Truth (with a capital 'T', no less) and are unwilling to accept criticism, then I find that I have to respond.

Anybody else think that christians are being bashed by almost everyone?
You are being bashed (as are everyone with a persecution complex - it just makes things easier that way), and Christianity as an institution is (justly) being condemned, but "Christians" are not, nor is the Christian Faith ('cept by a few Atheists who're just upset at the institution and can't separate ideas from ideologies).

Thy will be done
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3587/100de9nl9.gif



You can't see why that attitude would attract criticism at all?

Wasn't it established the last time that this graph didn't actually mean anything?

If that was true I wouldn't be the only christian on here arguing!

Don't worry about it. They think it's very clever so they whip it out. It certainly doesn't represent the population on NSG even slightly.

Only Christians who seem to thrive on a persecution complex. They are the dominant religion in the world with over two billion followers (and untold wealth and political power), but would still like us to believe they are a small band of martyrs hiding in the catacombs of Rome.

Probably because so many have made it clear that they wish we WERE a small band of martyrs hiding out in catacombs.

Oh, dear.

Yeah, life sure is rough when you're in the dominant and powerful majority. It's terrible. Being a Christian in the US is so very, very hard, kind of like being white, or male, or wealthy. Wealthy, straight WASP males have it worst of all, honestly, because who could possibly imagine anything worse than that kind of privilege? I mean, okay, some people will say that it'd be a lot worse to be in the minority, to not have your beliefs, your race, your gender, your orientation, your economic group remotely close to proportionately represented in the government or in industry, rather than being immensely overrepresented, but those people are clearly crazy, since any idiot could tell you that the worst place to be on the metaphorical food chain is at the top - after all, you keep having to look out for those uppity minorities climbing up, and maintaining a busy schedule of whining about being persecuted in between fighting to persecute others is hard work! And worst of all, given the extremely widespread nature of your opinions and beliefs, pretty much everyone in your country has been exposed to them, which means that sometimes they go so far as to publicly disagree! Man, it'd be much easier to be, say, a Muslim in America, and just have half of the country so oblivious to your beliefs that they just assume you're a terrorist on sight, rather than occasionally saying you might be wrong or something.

So, in short, you have my utmost sympathy, you really do. Yours is a hard life, living openly as a Christian in America, where only 80+% of the population agrees with you.

It's political leaders like the ones who made it a law prohibiting the use of Christmas lights on Christmas time that give atheists a bad name, and political leaders like George Bush senior that give Christians a bad name.

Yea and what gets on my nerves is us christians aren't doing anything. We stand back and watch atheists rise into power!!!

You know what? You should totally go out there and beat the power of God into those damned athiests! That'll learn 'em!

Of course, you know all the athiests are into birth control, abortion and general baby eating so all you have to do is sit back and have babies and eventually their numbers will thin out such that they will go extinct and there will still be a nice Christian army for you to identify with.

It's political leaders like the ones who made it a law prohibiting the use of Christmas lights on Christmas time that give atheists a bad name, and political leaders like George Bush senior that give Christians a bad name.

Firstly, please show us an example of a western political leader banning Christmas lights (as opposed to referring to them as 'holiday lights' or deciding that funding Christmas decorations was not a responsible use of government money).

Secondly, please show that the leader in question was motivated by Atheism.

I'm genuinely interested to see if you can answer the first challenge, let alone the second.

Probably because so many have made it clear that they wish we WERE a small band of martyrs hiding out in catacombs.

Wait, what?

I honestly don't know where to begin with this. Christianity is the largest religion in the world followed by Islam and Judaism.

Judaism isn't even close to the third largest religion in the world.

To be honest, the hardest part about being a Christian and posting on this forum is listening to all the whining about how many Christians there are. (Ohh you're gonna take away our freedoms! oooh you're pushing your religion down my throat oooohh I think I caught a glimpse of a crucifix once! As if Christianity only just arrived in the USA and was set to take over.) Maybe that's what the OP had in mind.

Well, to be fair to TI, you all have a different definition of who is and is not a Christian than he does. In his world "Christian" refers to his specific denomination, and maybe one or two others that have nearly the same doctrinal viewpoint. Other groups that call themselves "Christian" (like Catholics, Orthodox, Mormons, Liberal Protestant denominations) aren't truly Christian to them. So from his POV, Christians aren't a majority.

Anybody else think that christians are being bashed by almost everyone here on NS?

fixed! yes you are about to get the bashing of your life little Christian.... so take of your hat and bend!

:mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5:

Well I still don't know what this 'bashing' is - presumably it is now past the OP's bedtime, not that they seemed to want to explain what they meant. In the UK bashing would imply beating people up - as in 'paki bashing' and 'queer bashing'. These are things carried out by morons, but it strikes me this is not what the OP means.

Well, to be fair to TI, you all have a different definition of who is and is not a Christian than he does. In his world "Christian" refers to his specific denomination, and maybe one or two others that have nearly the same doctrinal viewpoint. Other groups that call themselves "Christian" (like Catholics, Orthodox, Mormons, Liberal Protestant denominations) aren't truly Christian to them. So from his POV, Christians aren't a majority.

Interesting point. I'll have to ask about that when he's back on.

Wasn't it established the last time that this graph didn't actually mean anything?

I don't think it was ever meant to be accurate, just illustrative of how, despite Christianity being in a pretty sweet position in the West, many Christians complain about being bashed and what not.

Well, maybe not many, but enough for it to be noticeable.

To be honest, the hardest part about being a Christian and posting on this forum is listening to all the whining about how many Christians there are. (Ohh you're gonna take away our freedoms! oooh you're pushing your religion down my throat oooohh I think I caught a glimpse of a crucifix once! As if Christianity only just arrived in the USA and was set to take over.) Maybe that's what the OP had in mind.

If you think that's hard, think how hard it is to be an atheist in real life and being considered one of the most distrusted minorities in the US simply because you don't believe in god. Or that somehow being an atheist means you're immoral, cynical, evil, etc.

Christianity claims Jesus as THE ONLY WAY to salvation. While ALL belief systems inherently assume they're right about what they believe, it's generally not openly proclaimed.

The validity of Christianity is a philisophical question, but because of it's exclusiveness, much like Islam, it's going to catch flack from anyone who dislikes it's premises.

To be honest, the hardest part about being a Christian and posting on this forum is listening to all the whining about how many Christians there are. (Ohh you're gonna take away our freedoms! oooh you're pushing your religion down my throat oooohh I think I caught a glimpse of a crucifix once! As if Christianity only just arrived in the USA and was set to take over.) Maybe that's what the OP had in mind.

RL is becoming just as bad. I wear a Christian t-shirt around school and people will openly mock me, for no reason, right? And if I were to say something back, as if to complain about it? I would hear the same BC that is spewed on here. Oh well. Jesus said that His followers will be hated by the world. It's not my problem.

If you think that's hard, think how hard it is to be an atheist in real life and being considered one of the most distrusted minorities in the US simply because you don't believe in god. Or that somehow being an atheist means you're immoral, cynical, evil, etc.

Atheists are the only group in which more than fifty percent of the population would refuse to vote for one as President if they agreed on absolutely everything else.

BTW, Tucker, you have a TG.

Sorry that we speak the truth. Wow getting a little defensive here aren't we!

This quote explains the exact reason for any so-called "persecution" you seem to think you are so constantly cursed with. It is because of your belief that Christianity and all it's tenants and beliefs are 100% correct and everyone who says otherwise is a devil worshipping, baby eating, Carlos Mencia enjoying, piece of pure malice who loves nothing more than to bring you and your "peaceful, God-loving" kind down that so many enjoy poking fun at Christianity. It is your belief that anyone who does not go to mass every Sunday or who argues against some little story in your "book of truth" is going to be sent straight to hell, as they are automatically as evil a being as have ever walked this Earth. It is your superiority complex and the blind faith with which you associate any decent human being to have in their religion... Their Christian religion, of course. (As there is no other way to be saved, right?)

I am a Christian, and one who will admit it no matter who asks. You sir, claim to be of the same cloth, but I think you are most adequately described as a close-minded idiot. Why, you ask? It is as simple as this. At the end of day, no one has any real idea of what will happen when we die. It could be the Christian belief, it could be that we just rot, as most Atheists believe, it could be the beliefs of any of the many religions that are present in this world, or it could be something entirely different and unknown. There is no way of knowing what death truly is, short of dying, of course. For you to sit there with your grand trumpet and proclaim the beliefs of all Atheists as wrong when all you have to back your beliefs in the afterlife is blind faith is sheer and utter idiocy. Sure, you can say “Well, the Bible says this, or God said that,” but there is no way you can prove the factuality of most of the things people have actually said in the bible. Just about the only things that can be proven are the battles. And all you can prove with that is the historic bloodthirst religion has possessed, despite being lorded over by a great and merciful God. .. Unless you want to say that God Himself has spoken to you, which I completely doubt considering that you are nothing but an insignificant and uninteresting flea.

You see, you claim to be a Christian, but in reality you are nothing like Christ. And being Christ like is the main goal of any good little Christian boy, is it not? Jesus was all about acceptance and compassion to others. This is best displayed in the parable of The Good Samaritan, or when Jesus talked kindly to a gentile woman at a well. This woman was not Jewish, unlike Jesus, but you did not see him condemning her or sentencing her straight to hell, did you? No, he simply look at the woman for her qualities as a human being and the way she lived her life. Not what type of religious service (if any) she attended. You however, look down upon those who are different from you solely because of their differences and assume them to be horrid, hell-bound people.

Religion is made in order to help people become good, loving individuals. The goal of such a person is to look at each individual for their own traits and goodness and accept them for their diversity. You can be Christian, Atheist, Agnostic, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, Muslim, or pagan, but if you are a good person, you are a good person, if you are a bad person, you are a bad person. And in the afterlife, I am quite sure that whatever God, if any, rules over the universe they will judge people based on the merit of their character and not on the time they’ve spent in mass.

In the meantime, learn how to respect the opinions of others, especially when they are different from your own. Otherwise, you will be made a fool time and time again.

Sincerely,
~The Servant to the People

I don't think it was ever meant to be accurate, just illustrative of how, despite Christianity being in a pretty sweet position in the West, many Christians complain about being bashed and what not.

Well, maybe not many, but enough for it to be noticeable.

The problem is that unless it's accurate, it means absolutely nothing and isn't nearly as clever as some seem to think it is.

If you think that's hard, think how hard it is to be an atheist in real life and being considered one of the most distrusted minorities in the US simply because you don't believe in god. Or that somehow being an atheist means you're immoral, cynical, evil, etc.

You know, I've heard that argument before but I've never seen it in practice. It may just be that I live in a region that's more diverse than most, but I will say that your argument sounds a bit too much like "2 wrongs make a right."

RL is becoming just as bad. I wear a Christian t-shirt around school and people will openly mock me, for no reason, right? And if I were to say something back, as if to complain about it? I would hear the same BC that is spewed on here. Oh well. Jesus said that His followers will be hated by the world. It's not my problem.

He did say that indeed, which is why I try not to let it bug me.

When I first became a Mormon I felt betrayed when I began to learn how even Evangelical Christians often react to Mormons, but I had to take the same approach there too.

Yea STRONG constructive criticism!

Mate, if you can't take the heat, don't post. That way, you'll make sure you're not "bashed" as you so elegantly put it.

I'm literally left speechless by the irony of SelfLoathing's post...

This quote explains the exact reason for any so-called "persecution" you seem to think you are so constantly cursed with. It is because of your belief that Christianity and all it's tenants and beliefs are 100% correct and everyone who says otherwise is a devil worshipping, baby eating, Carlos Mencia enjoying, piece of pure malice who loves nothing more than to bring you and your "peaceful, God-loving" kind down that so many enjoy poking fun at Christianity. It is your belief that anyone who does not go to mass every Sunday or who argues against some little story in your "book of truth" is going to be sent straight to hell, as they are automatically as evil a being as have ever walked this Earth. It is your superiority complex and the blind faith with which you associate any decent human being to have in their religion... Their Christian religion, of course. (As there is no other way to be saved, right?)

I am a Christian, and one who will admit it no matter who asks. You sir, claim to be of the same cloth, but I think you are most adequately described as a close-minded idiot. Why, you ask? It is as simple as this. At the end of day, no one has any real idea of what will happen when we die. It could be the Christian belief, it could be that we just rot, as most Atheists believe, it could be the beliefs of any of the many religions that are present in this world, or it could be something entirely different and unknown. There is no way of knowing what death truly is, short of dying, of course. For you to sit there with your grand trumpet and proclaim the beliefs of all Atheists as wrong when all you have to back your beliefs in the afterlife is blind faith is sheer and utter idiocy. Sure, you can say “Well, the Bible says this, or God said that,” but there is no way you can prove the factuality of most of the things people have actually said in the bible. Just about the only things that can be proven are the battles. And all you can prove with that is the historic bloodthirst religion has possessed, despite being lorded over by a great and merciful God. .. Unless you want to say that God Himself has spoken to you, which I completely doubt considering that you are nothing but an insignificant and uninteresting flea.

You see, you claim to be a Christian, but in reality you are nothing like Christ. And being Christ like is the main goal of any good little Christian boy, is it not? Jesus was all about acceptance and compassion to others. This is best displayed in the parable of The Good Samaritan, or when Jesus talked kindly to a gentile woman at a well. This woman was not Jewish, unlike Jesus, but you did not see him condemning her or sentencing her straight to hell, did you? No, he simply look at the woman for her qualities as a human being and the way she lived her life. Not what type of religious service (if any) she attended. You however, look down upon those who are different from you solely because of their differences and assume them to be horrid, hell-bound people.

Religion is made in order to help people become good, loving individuals. The goal of such a person is to look at each individual for their own traits and goodness and accept them for their diversity. You can be Christian, Atheist, Agnostic, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, Muslim, or pagan, but if you are a good person, you are a good person, if you are a bad person, you are a bad person. And in the afterlife, I am quite sure that whatever God, if any, rules over the universe they will judge people based on the merit of their character and not on the time they’ve spent in mass.

In the meantime, learn how to respect the opinions of others, especially when they are different from your own. Otherwise, you will be made a fool time and time again.

Sincerely,
~The Servant to the People


Ah, I see you like to preach the "feel good' Jesus. But you forget that He is coming back to judge the earth, ya? You forget that He will separate people into left and right, one being with Him, and one being separated. And how can you say that you are a Christian, but hold a candle to the notion that "christian belief" could be wrong or right? Or imply that there could be no God ? That's not very Christ-like indeed! Christ preached repentance and grace. He taught that He is the only way to eternity, and that He was God. You cannot be a Christian and not accept those things.

To be honest, the hardest part about being a Christian and posting on this forum is listening to all the whining about how many Christians there are. (Ohh you're gonna take away our freedoms! oooh you're pushing your religion down my throat oooohh I think I caught a glimpse of a crucifix once! As if Christianity only just arrived in the USA and was set to take over.) Maybe that's what the OP had in mind.

Maybe if you guys would top trying to make everybody else live by your "moral" code, then maybe the whining would stop.

Maybe if you guys would stop whining about not being able to preach to our children in the classroom, maybe the whining would stop.

Maybe if you guys would stop whining about not being able plant your religious symbols all over the place, then maybe the whining would stop.

Maybe but most likely the people here would find something else to whine about.

Maybe if you guys would top trying to make everybody else live by your "moral" code, then maybe the whining would stop.

Maybe if you guys would stop whining about not being able to preach to our children in the classroom, maybe the whining would stop.

Maybe if you guys would stop whining about not being able plant your religious symbols all over the place, then maybe the whining would stop.

Maybe but most likely the people here would find something else to whine about.

I don't think I'm guilty of a single one of the items in your list, nor do I know somebody who is. Sounds a little paranoid to me.

I'd sure love to get away with a generalization like that around here...

Actually, no I wouldn't, because generalizations like that aren't at all intellectually honest.

I don't think I'm guilty of a single one of the items in your list, nor do I know somebody who is. Sounds a little paranoid to me.

I'd sure love to get away with a generalization like that around here...

Actually, no I wouldn't, because generalizations like that aren't at all intellectually honest.

You know what I find very amusing? That some of those that would generalize us and call us something like a bigot or whatever, are usually far more bigoted than what they accuse us of. I always like to sit back and have a good laugh about that. :)

Mate, if you can't take the heat, don't post. That way, you'll make sure you're not "bashed" as you so elegantly put it.

I think his point is that the criticism he's getting isn't constructive, but merely bashing for its own sake.

I think that the big problem here is stereotyping. It seems like each side rides on a misguided image of what the other side is like.

Christians say that atheists are out to get them, and to destroy their religion, remove God from the public view, etc. Sure, a few extremists who make the news hate Christianity enough to hold these views, but in my experience, a majority of atheists are passive and just want to be left alone. They don't like to be clubbed over the head with a Bible and told that they're going to hell.

Atheists, on the flipside, tend to view Christians as Bible-beating loons who want to foist their religion on everyone. And, as above, they get this view from bad experiences with a few extremists, while the majority of Christians just want to practice their religion in peace without being called idiots by outspoken jerks on the internet.

Also, in response to the first post in this topic, remember that atheists are very strongly spoken on the internet, but in real life, freedom of religion reigns. No one is going to attempt to drive Christianity into the dirt.

I think his point is that the criticism he's getting isn't constructive, but merely bashing for its own sake.

You're a Christian, Neo B. Do you feel like Christians, same as you, are being bashed around NSG? I rather discuss these things with you.:p

I've never felt particularly bashed. There's the occasional annoying atheist who feels some need to put down anyone and everyone religious, but they're few and far between.

Yes.....mainly in America

Ah, I see you like to preach the "feel good' Jesus. But you forget that He is coming back to judge the earth, ya? You forget that He will separate people into left and right, one being with Him, and one being separated. And how can you say that you are a Christian, but hold a candle to the notion that "christian belief" could be wrong or right? Or imply that there could be no God ? That's not very Christ-like indeed! Christ preached repentance and grace. He taught that He is the only way to eternity, and that He was God. You cannot be a Christian and not accept those things.

yes folks, remember, being christian means a strict literal adherance to belief and dogma, with the inability to have an open mind, or accept that the church heirarchy might not have gotten everything right.

And hey, don't get mad at me for say it, Zilam did. See? He said right there, you can't be a christian, unless you think exactly like he does.

yes folks, remember, being christian means a strict literal adherance to belief and dogma, with the inability to have an open mind, or accept that the church heirarchy might not have gotten everything right.

And hey, don't get mad at me for say it, Zilam did. See? He said right there, you can't be a christian, unless you think exactly like he does.

I'm sorry but things taught by the Apostles, their disciples and so on, aren't really subject to being wrong. These basic things of Christianity have been there since the beginning. If you don't agree with it, then quite simply you are not a follower of the Way. There is authority to back that up.

And how can you say that you are a Christian, but hold a candle to the notion that "christian belief" could be wrong or right?

Not all Christians feel the need to assert their own infallibility. Personally, I think a person of faith - any faith - unable to admit that he may be wrong has rather weak faith.

Or imply that there could be no God ?

Again, there's this crazy thing about how humans are fallible...

That's not very Christ-like indeed! Christ preached repentance and grace. He taught that He is the only way to eternity, and that He was God. You cannot be a Christian and not accept those things.

Accepting and believing those things does not mean that:
(a) You cannot question them.
(b) You see them in the same way as another Christian.

I'm sorry but things taught by the Apostles, their disciples and so on, aren't really subject to being wrong.

So the Apostles and their immediate followers were infallible?

How do we determine who was right when they disagreed?

Not all Christians feel the need to assert their own infallibility. Personally, I think a person of faith - any faith - unable to admit that he may be wrong has rather weak faith.



Again, there's this crazy thing about how humans are fallible...



Accepting and believing those things does not mean that:
(a) You cannot question them.
(b) You see them in the same way as another Christian.

How can you accept something and still question it? "Hey I accept that you are a good person, but I still wonder if you really are a good person" Doesn't that seem illogical? How about you question something, find the answer, and then accept it as truth?

Not all Christians feel the need to assert their own infallibility. Personally, I think a person of faith - any faith - unable to admit that he may be wrong has rather weak faith.



Again, there's this crazy thing about how humans are fallible...



Accepting and believing those things does not mean that:
(a) You cannot question them.
(b) You see them in the same way as another Christian.

To use your own quote:

Someone cannot truly have belief without questioning. If you keep people from questioning, you are asking them to have faith in you, not in God.
-Dempublicents1

So true.

I don't think I'm guilty of a single one of the items in your list, nor do I know somebody who is. Sounds a little paranoid to me.

I'd sure love to get away with a generalization like that around here...

Actually, no I wouldn't, because generalizations like that aren't at all intellectually honest.

Sure it was a generalization. But what could be said for the logic of "I don't do that and I don't know anybody that does that so it doesn't happen."

It does. The classroom statement involved a case here. A "follower" tried to preach to 2nd graders(I think it was that grade) and screamed oppression when he was told to knock it off and was fired for not doing so. For some scary reason, the parents felt it was their job to guide the religious life or lack there of for their children.....

Sorry that we speak the truth. Wow getting a little defensive here aren't we!

No, you don't speak the truth. If you get picked on, that's why: Because your priests are liars who preach from a book written by senile old men with a bone to pick thousands of years ago.
Really, you have it good. Don't start complaining about the levels of freedom you have to indoctrinate people, fill the minds of youth with poisonous lies and go about being self-righteous about your fairytale-inspired hatred.

So the Apostles and their immediate followers were infallible?

How do we determine who was right when they disagreed?

Did they ever disagree about the fact that Jesus is the only way? That he was God in flesh? That He died for the world? That He was God? That there was even a God? No, I'll give you an example of something they disagreed on...In acts, we read where Barnabas and Paul argued over John Mark. It wasn't something essential to the faith. We can see from all the earliest Christian communities (that is, before the 2nd century heresies sprouted) that there were very many things that were essential and basic to the faith that people had to agree to, in order to be part of the Church.

People are fallible, but if its been that way since the beginning, from people who directly knew Christ, and nothing important was argued over, then we can assume with all credibility that the way they preached, was the right way that Christ taught.

I'm sorry but things taught by the Apostles, their disciples and so on, aren't really subject to being wrong. These basic things of Christianity have been there since the beginning. If you don't agree with it, then quite simply you are not a follower of the Way. There is authority to back that up.

what a convenient bit of circular nonsense.

what a convenient bit of circular nonsense.

Circular? How so? It's been that way since the beginning! I am not saying it to make me seem right, but have accepted what has been right since the faith began.

People seriously, if you are going to try and argue against Christianity, at least try and have SOME knowledge about it, and its early history. I see the same fallacious thinking all the time.

Threads like this are the reason we get ridiculed.

Any thread that:
1) Tries to wall off all non-Christians
2) Complains about these non-Christians as if they can't read the words you're writing
3) Portrays Christians as helpless victims in an unfair world

is going to get a lot of bad publicity.
It's the Christians who think that their faith puts them in a place to judge others, the Christians who don't think their beliefs through, who aren't willing to accept change or new ideas, and who put no effort into trying to get along with those who don't share their beliefs, that make people of other religions and (most especially) atheists dislike us.

This is the second thread of its kind that I've seen TI post. As with the last one, I don't know what he's trying to accomplish or if he even devoted more than a few seconds of thought to what he was doing before he wrote it.
If you don't want to be persecuted, then don't treat atheists like lesser mortals.

I've never seen anything so hypocritical as a Christian who heaps shit on people who don't think like him. Jesus told us not to judge. He told us that we were better off when we were being persecuted and that we should turn the other cheek when it happens. In other words: if you really are a strong Christian, and you really do feel persecuted, don't bitch about it. Offer the right cheek. Supposedly, we get a bonus later on for being persecuted in Christ's name, so we have nothing to worry about.

Our faith doesn't elevate us above the people who disagree.

You're a Christian, Neo B. Do you feel like Christians, same as you, are being bashed around NSG? I rather discuss these things with you.:p

I don't know that Christians necessarily receive a lot MORE bashing than some other groups, but people exercise very little restraint when doing it in a lot of cases. I always marvel at how comfortable some people are in going into how silly they see Christian beliefs as being, yet react with surprising hostility when one of their own views is challenged.

Atheists are the only group in which more than fifty percent of the population would refuse to vote for one as President if they agreed on absolutely everything else.
IMS atheists are also barred from holding public office in certain states.
I'm literally left speechless by the irony of SelfLoathing's post...

I just felt rather tl; dr

How can you accept something and still question it?

How can you accept something without questioning it?

"Hey I accept that you are a good person, but I still wonder if you really are a good person" Doesn't that seem illogical?

It's more along the lines of, "I accept that you are a good person, but I know that I might be wrong. I'll examine and reexamine that premise as the information available to me changes."

I believe that there is a God. I also believe that I am fallible, and that I can be wrong. As such, I must accept the fact that there might not be a God. That is not, however, what I currently believe to be true.

How about you question something, find the answer, and then accept it as truth?

The minute we become complacent and stop questioning - the minute we think we've got it figured out - we have lost faith.

Ah, I see you like to preach the "feel good' Jesus. But you forget that He is coming back to judge the earth, ya? You forget that He will separate people into left and right, one being with Him, and one being separated. And how can you say that you are a Christian, but hold a candle to the notion that "christian belief" could be wrong or right? Or imply that there could be no God ? That's not very Christ-like indeed! Christ preached repentance and grace. He taught that He is the only way to eternity, and that He was God. You cannot be a Christian and not accept those things.

You see, I personally beleive in all these things, but then again, I am just a human being and am therefore subject to being incorrect in my beliefs.

While I may have my own beliefs I also accept the validity of the different beliefs of others. There is a difference between belief and blind faith. I believe in the Christian God, just as I believe that tommorow will be a sunny day. I could be wrong about either, and I accept that... It just doesn't stop me from living life the way I deem is the best way to do so. ;)

Sure it was a generalization. But what could be said for the logic of "I don't do that and I don't know anybody that does that so it doesn't happen."

Yeah, but you said "you guys" in direct response to my post.


It does. The classroom statement involved a case here. A "follower" tried to preach to 2nd graders(I think it was that grade) and screamed oppression when he was told to knock it off and was fired for not doing so. For some scary reason, the parents felt it was their job to guide the religious life or lack there of for their children.....

But that's one case. And yes, I know there are a lot of them out there, but the trend is going the opposite way. I'd have thought you'd be pleased by the progression.

Personally I, and prettymuch all the other Christians with whom I associate, agree that religion shouldn't be preached in the public classroom. I do get annoyed when I feel like I have to constantly reiterate that to avoid being stereotyped.

Actually I love science, except one topic!

Too bad, that one topic uses the same scientific methods and rules as all the rest.

Anybody else think that christians are being bashed by almost everyone?

Nope.
Take a step back, look at all the special arangements society makes for any religion, and here in the West especially for Christians, and get over your little complex.

I believe that there is a God. I also believe that I am fallible, and that I can be wrong. As such, I must accept the fact that there might not be a God. That is not, however, what I currently believe to be true.


I agree completely with that statement.

Did they ever disagree about the fact that Jesus is the only way?

No, but they disagreed on exactly how.

That he was God in flesh?

Yes. That was not at all clear in the early church. It wasn't until well after Christ's death that it became established in most churches. And it was quite a while after that before the Church began weeding various out beliefs on exactly what this meant and declaring them heretical.

That He died for the world?

Nope, that's one's been pretty much standard throughout.

That He was God?

Again, yes. This is a belief that became standard over time. It was not universal in the early church.

That there was even a God?

No, that's pretty standard.

We can see from all the earliest Christian communities (that is, before the 2nd century heresies sprouted) that there were very many things that were essential and basic to the faith that people had to agree to, in order to be part of the Church.

Of course, until the first Council of Nicea, those things were not standardized from church to church.

It's interesting that you assume the "2nd century heresies" sprouted later, rather than being there from the beginning. Why is that?

I don't know that Christians necessarily receive a lot MORE bashing than some other groups, but people exercise very little restraint when doing it in a lot of cases. I always marvel at how comfortable some people are in going into how silly they see Christian beliefs as being, yet react with surprising hostility when one of their own views is challenged.

Which to me seems like the way the OP is reacting.

I don't know that Christians necessarily receive a lot MORE bashing than some other groups, but people exercise very little restraint when doing it in a lot of cases. I always marvel at how comfortable some people are in going into how silly they see Christian beliefs as being, yet react with surprising hostility when one of their own views is challenged.

Interesting... I'm curious. What group receives less bashing than Christians?

I've never felt particularly bashed. There's the occasional annoying atheist who feels some need to put down anyone and everyone religious, but they're few and far between.

And honestly the people who they piss off the most are usually the other atheists.

Interesting... I'm curious. What group receives less bashing than Christians?

Rastafarians? Zoroastrians? Other than those and a couple other tiny little religious groups, I can't think of any. Maybe Buddhists.

Rastafarians? Zoroastrians? Other than those and a couple other tiny little religious groups, I can't think of any. Maybe Buddhists.

Depends on where you go, I guess.
I don't know about Rastafarians, but I think Zoroastrians are not particularly popular in India, and barely legal (if that) in Iran.
And Buddhists... well, go ask China about Tibet ;)

Depends on where you go, I guess.
I don't know about Rastafarians, but I think Zoroastrians are not particularly popular in India, and barely legal (if that) in Iran.
And Buddhists... well, go ask China about Tibet ;)

Wait, there are still Zoroastrians still around? Could've sworn they died out centuries ago.

Yeah, but you said "you guys" in direct response to my post.

But that's one case. And yes, I know there are a lot of them out there, but the trend is going the opposite way. I'd have thought you'd be pleased by the progression.

Personally I, and prettymuch all the other Christians with whom I associate, agree that religion shouldn't be preached in the public classroom. I do get annoyed when I feel like I have to constantly reiterate that to avoid being stereotyped.

Unfortunately, that is the way of things a vocal retarded minority tends to wreck it for the rest. If you looked at my relations, you will find "religious" rednecks. They kind of embarrass the others.....

Wait, there are still Zoroastrians still around? Could've sworn they died out centuries ago.

Freddy Mercury was from a Zoroastrian family.

Wait, there are still Zoroastrians still around? Could've sworn they died out centuries ago.

Mostly in India and Iran, I understand. Yes, they still are around.

We are being bashed because we are the religious majority. It's just like how white people are bashed in America. We have a bad history, though most Christians throughout history have been good people, Atheists still like to feel important by giving miny history lessons to the faithful community like we didn't know it happened.

"Crusades?! Really!? Tell me more!!"

It is easier to pursue uncompromising faith by ignoring the criticisms. Just let it be.

We are being bashed because we are the religious majority. It's just like how white people are bashed in America. We have a bad history, though most Christians throughout history have been good people, Atheists still like to feel important by giving miny history lessons to the faithful community like we didn't know it happened.

"Crusades?! Really!? Tell me more!!"

It is easier to pursue uncompromising faith by ignoring the criticisms. Just let it be.

That... just doesn't make sense on any level whatsoever.

Little off topic, but Neo Bret you said you were a mormon right? I don't know a lot about it and was wondering if its true that you guys believe that Jesus came to America and converted some of the indians

Which to me seems like the way the OP is reacting.

I don't think so... I think he/she is reacting in the same way a lot of new people who are Christian react... with a "What the hell???"

Interesting... I'm curious. What group receives less bashing than Christians?

On this forum? Are you serious?

Or do you mean out in the world at large?

Unfortunately, that is the way of things a vocal retarded minority tends to wreck it for the rest. If you looked at my relations, you will find "religious" rednecks. They kind of embarrass the others.....

I know that's true, but it's hardly a justification to indulge in it. I've seen people on this very forum defend their anti-Christian vitriol by saying "Well I know you're not ALL like that, but SOME are [and so my religious bigotry is justified.]"

Little off topic, but Neo Bret you said you were a mormon right? I don't know a lot about it and was wondering if its true that you guys believe that Jesus came to America and converted some of the indians

Yep, that's true. Central America-ish region.

Heres another question for you Neo Bret, sorry but I don't know many mormons, whats the general mormon belief on non-believers, are we all doomed to hell or do you guys think that there are many paths to heaven?

Heres another question for you Neo Bret, sorry but I don't know many mormons, whats the general mormon belief on non-believers, are we all doomed to hell or do you guys think that there are many paths to heaven?

No worries.

There's only one path back to God's presence, but Heaven is a place with many levels. People ultimately end up in their eternal home based on their life.

'Hell' as most people think of it is not a part of our belief. Rather, those who deliberately, knowingly and consciously deny God, even in the afterlife where all things are clear, will wind up in Outer Darkness, a place utterly devoid of God's light.

It's all a lot more detailed than that, but that's the quick and dirty answer.

In response to the original poster, you guys get bashed becuase of the ignorance and pig-headedness that some members of your belief preach as well as the holier-than-thou attitdue that even you are guilty of TI

I honestly don't know where to begin with this. Christianity is the largest religion in the world followed by Islam and Judaism.

actually, it goes Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Primal Indigenous, Chinese Traditional, Buddhism, Sikhism, Judaism.

Logging off: Jesus <3 u!!!

u > (1/3)Jesus

In response to the OP's question:

Not no, but hell no.

Over six billion people on the planet. Supposedly one billion christian, and christian sub divisions.

Minority.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

For the love of god, have fun with that website. I sure did. It's the only one that actually goes through the whole damn book, pointing out the obvious. (Book of morman is an epic lulz fest, btw.)

This post brought to you by a Baha'i.

Over six billion people on the planet. Supposedly one billion christian, and christian sub divisions.

Minority.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

For the love of god, have fun with that website. I sure did. It's the only one that actually goes through the whole damn book, pointing out the obvious. (Book of morman is an epic lulz fest, btw.)

This post brought to you by a Baha'i.

Interesting. My understanding of the Baha'i was that they were above making cracks about other peoples' beliefs. Guess I was mistaken.

OP can't really say by 'almost everyone', because 'almost everyone' in the U.S. is Christian.. and they don't tend to 'bash' themselves. For some reason, Christians seem to have a major persecution complex >_> Nobody's out to kill you - we just don't believe in the stuff you do. I'm pretty sure that anyone who doesn't have bible verses stuck on the inside of their eyelids can see that it's been atheists who've been getting the much, much, shorter straw all this time, and still today.

Over six billion people on the planet. Supposedly one billion christian, and christian sub divisions.

Minority.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

For the love of god, have fun with that website. I sure did. It's the only one that actually goes through the whole damn book, pointing out the obvious. (Book of morman is an epic lulz fest, btw.)

This post brought to you by a Baha'i.


Your numbers are wrong given that over 1 billion people are Catholic, not even including the numerous protestant divisions of Christianity.


BTW TI is clearly not Catholic, so don't use the phrases mass or priests directed towards him. He seems like an evangelical, who IMO pay too much attention to the Bible (esp. the Old Testament) than to the actual Word of God (Jesus, the Christ).

yea i am. And it seems that we get ridiculed a lot.

Maybe you're targeted a lot because you make yourselves into such tempting targets.

OP can't really say by 'almost everyone', because 'almost everyone' in the U.S. is Christian.. and they don't tend to 'bash' themselves. For some reason, Christians seem to have a major persecution complex >_> Nobody's out to kill you - we just don't believe in the stuff you do. I'm pretty sure that anyone who doesn't have bible verses stuck on the inside of their eyelids can see that it's been atheists who've been getting the much, much, shorter straw all this time, and still today.

If it were as you say, there'd be no problem. Stick around awhile and watch. You'll understand if you hang around this forum long enough.

Your numbers are wrong given that over 1 billion people are Catholic, not even including the numerous protestant divisions of Christianity.


BTW TI is clearly not Catholic, so don't use the phrases mass or priests directed towards him. He seems like an evangelical, who IMO pay too much attention to the Bible (esp. the Old Testament) than to the actual Word of God (Jesus, the Christ).

Actually I was thinking Evangelicals pay too LITTLE attention to the OT, but that's just my opinion.

Interesting. My understanding of the Baha'i was that they were above making cracks about other peoples' beliefs. Guess I was mistaken.
Washing a belief structure with the colours of an individual, are we? :p :D

All faiths have their jerks. Obviously we can start the Baha'i tally now.

If it were as you say, there'd be no problem. Stick around awhile and watch. You'll understand if you hang around this forum long enough.

Funny how it's only the hyper-conservative Christians who ever notice it.

The only reason for someone to bitch about xtianity vs the world is that they are upset that xtianity is no longer winning. They aren't top dog in the oppression game anymore, and some of them don't like it.

Funny how it's only the hyper-conservative Christians who ever notice it.

I'm not hyper-conservative.
A lot of people on this board are very anti-Christian, and loud about it.

I'm not hyper-conservative.
A lot of people on this board are very anti-Christian, and loud about it.

Same way as Christians when it comes to discussing other religious groups. Don´t pretend you´re all meek and sweet. Christians can be very mean too when they have a mind to.

What do you expect others to do? Grin and bear it? Turn the other cheek? Bullshit. Only Jesus was able to do that, and if God´s there, He supposedly gave me free will. In other words, sod off.

Same way as Christians when it comes to discussing other religious groups. Don´t pretend you´re all meek and sweet. Christians can be very mean too when they have a mind to.

What do you expect others to do? Grin and bear it? Turn the other cheek? Bullshit. Only Jesus was able to do that, and if God´s there, He supposedly gave me free will. In other words, sod off.

Why did you take out "I'm not harming your beliefs"?

I'm Christian and I admit that is completely true...

Why did you take out "I'm not harming your beliefs"?

I'm Christian and I admit that is completely true...

I don´t want to get into an argument of epic proportions with dimwitted reactionary Christians, WF (and I´m not referring to you).

I´m not harming your beliefs by believing what I do, true.

Interesting. My understanding of the Baha'i was that they were above making cracks about other peoples' beliefs. Guess I was mistaken.

Generally speaking they are. I dont represent the faith. I represent myself. I just cant resist a chance to have epic lulz over extremist right wing stereotypical christians who are crying out in public.

Same way as Christians when it comes to discussing other religious groups.

I'm sorry. I thought that we were just talking about if there were any loud anti-Christians on this board. Supposedly I have to be hyper-conservative to even acknowledge their existence. However, now you seem to be conceding that they do exist. I may be confused, but it seems like maybe you already knew that there were vocal anti-Christians on this board, but that you want us to pretend there aren't because, in your eyes, their behavior is excusable.
And who says it isn't?

Don´t pretend you´re all meek and sweet.

Um... don't worry. That'd be a fool's errand.
However, I am meek and sweet.

Christians can be very mean too when they have a mind to.

Sure. Of course they can. What are you trying to say?

What do you expect others to do? Grin and bear it?

Did I say that? Where are you getting all this from?
I would like it if you weren't rude, but I definitely can't stop you. And of course you have the right to be.
I don't know what you're so angry about. I never said that all atheists are evil and eat babies, I never said that Christians are being whipped and persecuted. I just corrected a false statement: that only hyper-conservative Christians notice anti-Christianity on this board. Now, you seem to be acknowledging that this anti-Christianity does exist. What does that make you?

Turn the other cheek? Bullshit. Only Jesus was able to do that, and if God´s there, He supposedly gave me free will.

Free will to say things even more prejudice and inflammatory than the things Tucker Island has said.

In other words, sod off.

Ouch... my feelings. :(

I'm sorry but I couldn't help but laugh after reading the OP. Persecution complex much?

I'm sorry but I couldn't help but laugh after reading the OP. Persecution complex much?

That's just the tip of the iceberg. Read some of the other things he's said.

Washing a belief structure with the colours of an individual, are we? :p :D

All faiths have their jerks. Obviously we can start the Baha'i tally now.

So it would seem.

Funny how it's only the hyper-conservative Christians who ever notice it.

Yes only them. Must be.

Generally speaking they are. I dont represent the faith. I represent myself. I just cant resist a chance to have epic lulz over extremist right wing stereotypical christians who are crying out in public.

Yes everybody who has the temerity to be a squeaky wheel must be an extremist right wing stereotypical Christian. :rolleyes:

lol fair enough. Though for any argument you have to work from some kind of premise. Even if its just that the universe does actually exist.

And that's why it's dreadfully impractical.

How can you accept something and still question it? "Hey I accept that you are a good person, but I still wonder if you really are a good person" Doesn't that seem illogical? How about you question something, find the answer, and then accept it as truth?

Because picking a point in your questioning and deciding that you have all of the information, and can find the final answer is naive.

really cause we seem to be targeted.

Ok, so you think your are being repressed, fine. Although, I got a challenge for you and others like you. For one day and with out revealing its a challenge profess that you are now of a different belief. Tell them plainly and firmly that you are ________ now; without wearing or showing anything of your "old" faith. Tell them and look at their eyes, listen to their inane questions, and their rants. Then you come back here and tell us how you were not oppessed. If or when you pass I will in return say/type 'I kissed your ass' to which you can sig.

If it were as you say, there'd be no problem. Stick around awhile and watch. You'll understand if you hang around this forum long enough.

Internet forums do not accurately reflect reality.

If all christians were like Dempublicents1 and SelfLoathing I would lose most of the reasons to bash christians. Not that I've done it on THESE forums (yet) but anyway...

Have to agree though that where I live christians are bashed. The ones that call themselves "true" christians anyway. You know the ones that bash other brands of christianity and tell they are going to hell for not being as fanatic about as they are?

Then again I brand most "christians" agnostics or whatever the term was.

Internet forums do not accurately reflect reality.
You don't say. So Ron Paul won't become the next president of the USA?

On this forum? Are you serious?

Or do you mean out in the world at large?

I think this discussion is about the world on the whole.
After all, coming to a mostly non-religious forum it would be ludicrous to expect people not to make fun of religion. I've seen enough Christian forums to know that they try to make what they probably see as "fun" of atheists, and of other religions.

How can you accept something and still question it? "Hey I accept that you are a good person, but I still wonder if you really are a good person" Doesn't that seem illogical? How about you question something, find the answer, and then accept it as truth?

So if you've got someone down as a "good person", they can do no wrong in your book?
Good people are still people and have flaws. Not to anticipate this is highly naive, irresponsible and possibly downright dangerous.

Anybody else think that christians are being bashed by almost everyone?

I'm a christian. I don't feel particularly bashed. Definitely not in the real world, seeing as there are believers who are sitting in gaols or being executed. Kinda puts someone saying something shitty in context.
And in the forum...yeah, but you get that with any different idea. If I said anything outside of majority opinion, I would expect it. But its not contained the religion...

How can you accept something without questioning it?



It's more along the lines of, "I accept that you are a good person, but I know that I might be wrong. I'll examine and reexamine that premise as the information available to me changes."

I believe that there is a God. I also believe that I am fallible, and that I can be wrong. As such, I must accept the fact that there might not be a God. That is not, however, what I currently believe to be true.



The minute we become complacent and stop questioning - the minute we think we've got it figured out - we have lost faith.
Wish all religious people were like you

I don't think I'm guilty of a single one of the items in your list, nor do I know somebody who is. Sounds a little paranoid to me.

I'd sure love to get away with a generalization like that around here...

Actually, no I wouldn't, because generalizations like that aren't at all intellectually honest.

O bullshit. Look at creationism. Or into history if you like.

This quote explains the exact reason for any so-called "persecution" you seem to think you are so constantly cursed with. It is because of your belief that Christianity and all it's tenants and beliefs are 100% correct and everyone who says otherwise is a devil worshipping, baby eating, Carlos Mencia enjoying, piece of pure malice who loves nothing more than to bring you and your "peaceful, God-loving" kind down that so many enjoy poking fun at Christianity. It is your belief that anyone who does not go to mass every Sunday or who argues against some little story in your "book of truth" is going to be sent straight to hell, as they are automatically as evil a being as have ever walked this Earth. It is your superiority complex and the blind faith with which you associate any decent human being to have in their religion... Their Christian religion, of course. (As there is no other way to be saved, right?)

I am a Christian, and one who will admit it no matter who asks. You sir, claim to be of the same cloth, but I think you are most adequately described as a close-minded idiot. Why, you ask? It is as simple as this. At the end of day, no one has any real idea of what will happen when we die. It could be the Christian belief, it could be that we just rot, as most Atheists believe, it could be the beliefs of any of the many religions that are present in this world, or it could be something entirely different and unknown. There is no way of knowing what death truly is, short of dying, of course. For you to sit there with your grand trumpet and proclaim the beliefs of all Atheists as wrong when all you have to back your beliefs in the afterlife is blind faith is sheer and utter idiocy. Sure, you can say “Well, the Bible says this, or God said that,” but there is no way you can prove the factuality of most of the things people have actually said in the bible. Just about the only things that can be proven are the battles. And all you can prove with that is the historic bloodthirst religion has possessed, despite being lorded over by a great and merciful God. .. Unless you want to say that God Himself has spoken to you, which I completely doubt considering that you are nothing but an insignificant and uninteresting flea.

You see, you claim to be a Christian, but in reality you are nothing like Christ. And being Christ like is the main goal of any good little Christian boy, is it not? Jesus was all about acceptance and compassion to others. This is best displayed in the parable of The Good Samaritan, or when Jesus talked kindly to a gentile woman at a well. This woman was not Jewish, unlike Jesus, but you did not see him condemning her or sentencing her straight to hell, did you? No, he simply look at the woman for her qualities as a human being and the way she lived her life. Not what type of religious service (if any) she attended. You however, look down upon those who are different from you solely because of their differences and assume them to be horrid, hell-bound people.

Religion is made in order to help people become good, loving individuals. The goal of such a person is to look at each individual for their own traits and goodness and accept them for their diversity. You can be Christian, Atheist, Agnostic, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, Muslim, or pagan, but if you are a good person, you are a good person, if you are a bad person, you are a bad person. And in the afterlife, I am quite sure that whatever God, if any, rules over the universe they will judge people based on the merit of their character and not on the time they’ve spent in mass.

In the meantime, learn how to respect the opinions of others, especially when they are different from your own. Otherwise, you will be made a fool time and time again.

Sincerely,
~The Servant to the People
that was epic!

Atheists are the only group in which more than fifty percent of the population would refuse to vote for one as President if they agreed on absolutely everything else.
I'm not sure I understand . .. . what do you mean by that?

Circular? How so? It's been that way since the beginning! I am not saying it to make me seem right, but have accepted what has been right since the faith began.

People seriously, if you are going to try and argue against Christianity, at least try and have SOME knowledge about it, and its early history. I see the same fallacious thinking all the time.

ok I was trying to be nice and not have to get serious on this one but come on!
Christianity has been revised so many times its not even funny. As to the early history of Christianity You seem to be pretty out of your depth. You truly sincerely believe that to be Christian you have to believe Christ was God himself? Even the bible doesn't back that up real well. Yes he's a part of the "Holy Trinity" but he's ALSO the "son of god" not god himself/herself. Of course the apostles are subject to being wrong . . . .EVERYONE is wrong sometimes. Hell I'm sure Christ himself was wrong on at least some things (if a biblical Christ existed which I'm not convinced he did) . . . . Mary Magdalen comes to mind. You might as well say that to be Christian you have too believe entirely in the Old testament and solely the old testament which seems pretty ridiculous to me (and most others I'd assume from the responses.)

Anybody else think that christians are being bashed by almost everyone?

So is this all you do?

Whine about how you're oppressed?

Seriously you need to open your eyes.

ok I was trying to be nice and not have to get serious on this one but come on!
Christianity has been revised so many times its not even funny. As to the early history of Christianity You seem to be pretty out of your depth. You truly sincerely believe that to be Christian you have to believe Christ was God himself? Even the bible doesn't back that up real well. Yes he's a part of the "Holy Trinity" but he's ALSO the "son of god" not god himself/herself. Of course the apostles are subject to being wrong . . . .EVERYONE is wrong sometimes. Hell I'm sure Christ himself was wrong on at least some things (if a biblical Christ existed which I'm not convinced he did) . . . . Mary Magdalen comes to mind. You might as well say that to be Christian you have too believe entirely in the Old testament and solely the old testament which seems pretty ridiculous to me (and most others I'd assume from the responses.)

I would have to disagree completely with the bible not being conclusive about Jesus' divinity as God, and also as the Son of God. But I will save that for another thread. But I just wanted to voice my objection.

Anybody else think that christians are being bashed by almost everyone?

No, and I don't bash christians.

In the case that contradicting you makes you think that I am bashing you as a christian, I'm one christian-basher more on the count. Oh well, I can live with that.

Nope. And besides, bashing is a strong term. It's more of a constructive criticism from one side and the other.;)

It sometimes gets to be a little harsher than constructive criticism, but overall it's not too bad. I'm a conservative Catholic, but I'm not bothered by others' views on my faith. Their opinion.

Yes we really must stop voicing our criticisms of the Westboro Baptist Church...

Anybody else think that christians are being bashed by almost everyone?
really cause we seem to be targeted.
Martyr Complex ftw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo
___end_of_line___

Christianity vs. the world eh?

This left-wing anarchist, communist, green, pacifist, agnostic, internationalist somehow ceases to care about your "persecution".

Only Christians can yell "we're being persecuted" while being the dominant culture in a society.

It sometimes gets to be a little harsher than constructive criticism, but overall it's not too bad. I'm a conservative Catholic, but I'm not bothered by others' views on my faith. Their opinion.

Harsher, yes. Bashing, I don´t think it gets to that, or not most of the time. At least not on my part. There´s no need to bash because that never gets you anywhere in an argument.

That´s why I tend to respect and read what Neo Bretonnia has to say. He´s a Christian, and I have never seen him bash anyone on an argument because the person debating with him doesn´t share his same views on a given subject. As you wrote: their opinion.

Sorry that we speak the truth. Wow getting a little defensive here aren't we!

This troll is getting old. Someone tell me when the new model comes out.

Don't Mess With TEXAS!!!

Oh my god, it finally happened--George Bush figured out how to get on the internets.

This is why when I go to other countries I tell people I'm Canadian. :(

Oh my god, it finally happened--George Bush figured out how to get on the internets.

This is why when I go to other countries I tell people I'm Canadian. :(

OMG! Teh Lulz!!:D

OMG! Teh Lulz!!:D

Don't mock us poor shamed US Americans, Spaniard! :p

Anybody else think that christians are being bashed by almost everyone?And? Don't they deserve it?

OP can't really say by 'almost everyone', because 'almost everyone' in the U.S. is Christian.. and they don't tend to 'bash' themselves. For some reason, Christians seem to have a major persecution complex >_> Nobody's out to kill you - we just don't believe in the stuff you do. I'm pretty sure that anyone who doesn't have bible verses stuck on the inside of their eyelids can see that it's been atheists who've been getting the much, much, shorter straw all this time, and still today.Why do you refer to the US ? This is an international forum.

Hellos,

I am sorry, as I have been looking for a hand-out I had from a science class; cannot find it...:headbang:

Anyways...

Science and Religion ask two different sets of questions; there is no real reason for debate, or take-over (using what ever means anyone can come up with).

The two can actually live in balance with one another, as they do not infringe on each other.

I REALLY have to find that paper, but alas, I wrote about it before, so if you are interested, please look up my previous NSG posts, it is in there somewhere.

Where are the Elders of Ages past? We need grown-ups worthy of the title "adult" with as much wisdom as knowledge in government.

-Rafe

Hellos,

I am sorry, as I have been looking for a hand-out I had from a science class; cannot find it...:headbang:

Anyways...

Science and Religion ask two different sets of questions; there is no real reason for debate, or take-over (using what ever means anyone can come up with).

The two can actually live in balance with one another, as they do not infringe on each other.

I REALLY have to find that paper, but alas, I wrote about it before, so if you are interested, please look up my previous NSG posts, it is in there somewhere.

Where are the Elders of Ages past? We need grown-ups worthy of the title "adult" with as much wisdom as knowledge in government.

-Rafe
Religion as such does indeed not necessarily clash with science. However, Christianity does. Christianity is based on historical inaccuracies and on the knowledge of a "people" who were science-wise, socially, and ideologically always behind everyone else in the region.

God damn it, why is the persecution complex so strong in Christianity? Christianity gets special treatment in our society, so stop playing the god damn victim for once.

Really what special treatment is that?

Why do you refer to the US ? This is an international forum.

Maybe because the US have got their knickers in a knot where as most Western countries don't have major problems at least not the same way the US does.

Religion as such does indeed not necessarily clash with science. However, Christianity does. Christianity is based on historical inaccuracies and on the knowledge of a "people" who were science-wise, socially, and ideologically always behind everyone else in the region.


Yup. They SHOULD be NOMA (Non-overlapping Magisteria) but when the fundys start trying to get myth taught in science class then it's time to stand up and tell them to take their pre-Dynastic Bollocks and stick them up their own arses.

This quote explains the exact reason for any so-called "persecution" you seem to think you are so constantly cursed with. It is because of your belief that Christianity and all it's tenants and beliefs are 100% correct and everyone who says otherwise is a devil worshipping, baby eating, Carlos Mencia enjoying, piece of pure malice who loves nothing more than to bring you and your "peaceful, God-loving" kind down that so many enjoy poking fun at Christianity. It is your belief that anyone who does not go to mass every Sunday or who argues against some little story in your "book of truth" is going to be sent straight to hell, as they are automatically as evil a being as have ever walked this Earth. It is your superiority complex and the blind faith with which you associate any decent human being to have in their religion... Their Christian religion, of course. (As there is no other way to be saved, right?)

I am a Christian, and one who will admit it no matter who asks. You sir, claim to be of the same cloth, but I think you are most adequately described as a close-minded idiot. Why, you ask? It is as simple as this. At the end of day, no one has any real idea of what will happen when we die. It could be the Christian belief, it could be that we just rot, as most Atheists believe, it could be the beliefs of any of the many religions that are present in this world, or it could be something entirely different and unknown. There is no way of knowing what death truly is, short of dying, of course. For you to sit there with your grand trumpet and proclaim the beliefs of all Atheists as wrong when all you have to back your beliefs in the afterlife is blind faith is sheer and utter idiocy. Sure, you can say “Well, the Bible says this, or God said that,” but there is no way you can prove the factuality of most of the things people have actually said in the bible. Just about the only things that can be proven are the battles. And all you can prove with that is the historic bloodthirst religion has possessed, despite being lorded over by a great and merciful God. .. Unless you want to say that God Himself has spoken to you, which I completely doubt considering that you are nothing but an insignificant and uninteresting flea.

You see, you claim to be a Christian, but in reality you are nothing like Christ. And being Christ like is the main goal of any good little Christian boy, is it not? Jesus was all about acceptance and compassion to others. This is best displayed in the parable of The Good Samaritan, or when Jesus talked kindly to a gentile woman at a well. This woman was not Jewish, unlike Jesus, but you did not see him condemning her or sentencing her straight to hell, did you? No, he simply look at the woman for her qualities as a human being and the way she lived her life. Not what type of religious service (if any) she attended. You however, look down upon those who are different from you solely because of their differences and assume them to be horrid, hell-bound people.

Religion is made in order to help people become good, loving individuals. The goal of such a person is to look at each individual for their own traits and goodness and accept them for their diversity. You can be Christian, Atheist, Agnostic, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, Muslim, or pagan, but if you are a good person, you are a good person, if you are a bad person, you are a bad person. And in the afterlife, I am quite sure that whatever God, if any, rules over the universe they will judge people based on the merit of their character and not on the time they’ve spent in mass.

In the meantime, learn how to respect the opinions of others, especially when they are different from your own. Otherwise, you will be made a fool time and time again.

Sincerely,
~The Servant to the People


Very well put sir/madam. :bows:

I vote the world, its been ther elonger and will probbaly be there long after we all whipe each other out.

This quote explains the exact reason for any so-called "persecution" you seem to think you are so constantly cursed with. It is because of your belief that Christianity and all it's tenants and beliefs are 100% correct and everyone who says otherwise is a devil worshipping, baby eating, Carlos Mencia enjoying, piece of pure malice who loves nothing more than to bring you and your "peaceful, God-loving" kind down that so many enjoy poking fun at Christianity. It is your belief that anyone who does not go to mass every Sunday or who argues against some little story in your "book of truth" is going to be sent straight to hell, as they are automatically as evil a being as have ever walked this Earth. It is your superiority complex and the blind faith with which you associate any decent human being to have in their religion... Their Christian religion, of course. (As there is no other way to be saved, right?)

I am a Christian, and one who will admit it no matter who asks. You sir, claim to be of the same cloth, but I think you are most adequately described as a close-minded idiot. Why, you ask? It is as simple as this. At the end of day, no one has any real idea of what will happen when we die. It could be the Christian belief, it could be that we just rot, as most Atheists believe, it could be the beliefs of any of the many religions that are present in this world, or it could be something entirely different and unknown. There is no way of knowing what death truly is, short of dying, of course. For you to sit there with your grand trumpet and proclaim the beliefs of all Atheists as wrong when all you have to back your beliefs in the afterlife is blind faith is sheer and utter idiocy. Sure, you can say “Well, the Bible says this, or God said that,” but there is no way you can prove the factuality of most of the things people have actually said in the bible. Just about the only things that can be proven are the battles. And all you can prove with that is the historic bloodthirst religion has possessed, despite being lorded over by a great and merciful God. .. Unless you want to say that God Himself has spoken to you, which I completely doubt considering that you are nothing but an insignificant and uninteresting flea.

You see, you claim to be a Christian, but in reality you are nothing like Christ. And being Christ like is the main goal of any good little Christian boy, is it not? Jesus was all about acceptance and compassion to others. This is best displayed in the parable of The Good Samaritan, or when Jesus talked kindly to a gentile woman at a well. This woman was not Jewish, unlike Jesus, but you did not see him condemning her or sentencing her straight to hell, did you? No, he simply look at the woman for her qualities as a human being and the way she lived her life. Not what type of religious service (if any) she attended. You however, look down upon those who are different from you solely because of their differences and assume them to be horrid, hell-bound people.

Religion is made in order to help people become good, loving individuals. The goal of such a person is to look at each individual for their own traits and goodness and accept them for their diversity. You can be Christian, Atheist, Agnostic, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, Muslim, or pagan, but if you are a good person, you are a good person, if you are a bad person, you are a bad person. And in the afterlife, I am quite sure that whatever God, if any, rules over the universe they will judge people based on the merit of their character and not on the time they’ve spent in mass.

In the meantime, learn how to respect the opinions of others, especially when they are different from your own. Otherwise, you will be made a fool time and time again.

Sincerely,
~The Servant to the People

Threads like this are the reason we get ridiculed.

Any thread that:
1) Tries to wall off all non-Christians
2) Complains about these non-Christians as if they can't read the words you're writing
3) Portrays Christians as helpless victims in an unfair world

is going to get a lot of bad publicity.
It's the Christians who think that their faith puts them in a place to judge others, the Christians who don't think their beliefs through, who aren't willing to accept change or new ideas, and who put no effort into trying to get along with those who don't share their beliefs, that make people of other religions and (most especially) atheists dislike us.

This is the second thread of its kind that I've seen TI post. As with the last one, I don't know what he's trying to accomplish or if he even devoted more than a few seconds of thought to what he was doing before he wrote it.
If you don't want to be persecuted, then don't treat atheists like lesser mortals.

I've never seen anything so hypocritical as a Christian who heaps shit on people who don't think like him. Jesus told us not to judge. He told us that we were better off when we were being persecuted and that we should turn the other cheek when it happens. In other words: if you really are a strong Christian, and you really do feel persecuted, don't bitch about it. Offer the right cheek. Supposedly, we get a bonus later on for being persecuted in Christ's name, so we have nothing to worry about.

Our faith doesn't elevate us above the people who disagree.

Would that there were more people in the world like this.

Did they ever disagree about the fact that Jesus is the only way? That he was God in flesh? That He died for the world? That He was God?1. There is no way of knowing.
2. Does it matter what they agreed or disagreed on? Agreement does not make the story true.

Our faith doesn't elevate us above the people who disagree.Ain't that the truth?? Faith puts its followers below those without such a clouded perspective.

Only Christians can yell "we're being persecuted" while being the dominant culture in a society.
Obviously you have not looked at other societies then if you really believe that.

Ain't that the truth?? Faith puts its followers below those without such a clouded perspective.

Statements like that are just as prejudice as Tucker Island's.
I've seen loads of dumb atheists and smart Christians, just as I've seen loads of dumb Christians and smart atheists. Your belief, or lack of belief, isn't going to elevate or lower you above anyone.
What matters is whether or not you've thought that belief through.

Hellos,

I am sorry, as I have been looking for a hand-out I had from a science class; cannot find it...:headbang:

Anyways...

Science and Religion ask two different sets of questions; there is no real reason for debate, or take-over (using what ever means anyone can come up with).

The two can actually live in balance with one another, as they do not infringe on each other.

I REALLY have to find that paper, but alas, I wrote about it before, so if you are interested, please look up my previous NSG posts, it is in there somewhere.

Where are the Elders of Ages past? We need grown-ups worthy of the title "adult" with as much wisdom as knowledge in government.

-Rafe

I must admit that I've always regarded the whole 'Non-Overlapping Magisteria' thing as intellectually lazy sleight of hand: it doesn't so much defend 'religion' as redefine the word to mean 'moral philosophy', and Stephen Jay Gould pretty much admitted as much in his dreadful book, Rock of Ages. Sure, theoretically you could have a religion which doesn't overlap with religion at all but it wouldn't be one that most Christians, Muslims or Jews would recognise.

For a start, the religion couldn't include any dogmas concerning the physical world at all, so even relatively uncontroversial claims such as 'Jesus existed' or 'Mohammed existed' would have to be stripped out and replaced with something like "In a very real spiritual sense, Jesus should have existed, and it's even possible that he did, although obviously that's not relevant to our belief system". In other words you get Anglicanism. :p

That... just doesn't make sense on any level whatsoever.
You know, when I saw the first line, I assumed he was being sarcastic. That's how silly the post was. :D

Really what special treatment is that?
Are you serious?

Christianity is considered, by mainstream society, a somewhat valid argument--even by many who disagree with the argument-- for banning medical procedures and research. (See Abortion, stem cells.)

Christianity, in the US, is on our money and in our pledge (that children are, at the least, pressured into saying every day)
In many European countries, Christianity is written favorably into the law. Danish Monarchs are required to be Lutheran, the British government funds actively Christian schools, etc.

Christian Holidays are given special legal recognition.

Even the Christian Holy Day has special recognition: in many places, it is illegal to purchase alcohol on a Sunday because that would offend Christians.

Gay marriage is illegal entirely because of the bigotry of many Christians.

Societally: Criticism of Christianity is considered somewhat taboo. Sure, you can criticize individual Christians or sects, but Christianity (and religion in general) are almost always portrayed positively. Consider that, not to long ago (in the grand scheme of things), Life of Brian was controversial and banned in many places for its message of "think for yourselves, don't let religious leaders do your thinking for you."

Consider that, with very few exceptions, almost any atheist in any fiction is portrayed negatively, or at least lacking in some regard, and will almost certainly be converted back to religion by the end of the show/movie/book.

And you don't think Christianity has a special status in the West? Pah. You are either blind or willfully ignoring the truth.

...
What matters is whether or not you've thought that belief through.Nope. The biblical god is an invention. How many times or how thoroughly you think your belief in this inexistent god through does not change the pointlessness of the belief.
It's like believing in a railroad bridge across the Atlantic. You can think through all the details and the properties of the steel and the concrete. Just doesn't make it real.

Maybe because the US have got their knickers in a knot where as most Western countries don't have major problems at least not the same way the US does.

Maybe because Christian morals influence politics more in America than most Western nations, because apparently "separation of church and state" is an ambiguous phrase that can be interpreted as "this is the law because the bible says so."

Nope. The biblical god is an invention.

There, we sort of agree. I believe in God, but I doubt that such a God exists as portrayed in the Bible.

How many times or how thoroughly you think your belief in this inexistent god through does not change the pointlessness of the belief.

How is belief in God "pointless"?

It's like believing in a railroad bridge across the Atlantic. You can think through all the details and the properties of the steel and the concrete. Just doesn't make it real.

I believe in God as a vague, intelligent force present in all living things. Not like a bridge, which you can see and step on. So no, it's not like that. We'd be able to see if there was suddenly a new railroad bridge across the Atlantic. Since I'm not seeing it, I conclude it's not there.
Seeing God is not essential to my belief. I see the world around me, and I believe it was created, not that it randomly popped into existence. (By the way, I'm not a creationist... I believe in evolution and the Big Bang.)
I've thought through my beliefs, I question them constantly, and there have been times when I was pretty sure there was no God at all. But the more I question, I find that a world with God makes more sense to me than a world without. Other people differ with me. I'm okay with that.
I don't think that these people are smarter or stupider than I am simply because their ideas are not the same as mine. Other people differ with me there, too. Obviously.

feels that way some times. it seems like the atheists all have it out for christinaity mainly

Because you, I trust, live in an occidental country, wherein legal, political, cultural and moral institutions have Christian roots, and thus where Christian precepts and principles frame atheists rejection of religion.

Hey gaiz i believe in god because it makes me fiil warm insaid. people need to leave me alone because i'm right. Leave Jesus alone!!!1 Leave him aaalone! don't tell me im worng, that's beign intolerant!1oneoneeleven

America is a Christian nation although one of the founding principles of the country was the freedom of religion u cant get away from the fact that all of its founders and every one of its presidents has been a Christian. This is the problem with the west at the very time when we should be rallying around our Christian heritage and traditions, and defend the beliefs of our ancestors we are instead told by the liberal left to marginalise and repudiate our beliefs we are taught there is truth in all teachings and that all religions offer the same path to enlightenment. This is a dangerous ideology, if our youth it taught that our religion our very way of life is not worth fighting for then we will be obliterated by the forces of secularism and islamism morals will disappear and corruption and decadence will bring us down. The third world will rise and they will bring with them there long awaited revenge.

I am meek and sweet.
......

Wow. I guess everything really is bigger in Texas.

You know, like your ego. But not like your cranial capacity.
They actually have Alaska envy. Pertinent also to the second line there as well, unfortunately.

Insecurities? I'm very secure
Don't Mess with TEXAS!
I am from the US
Do you live in a big BIG state, or one of those lesser states like Texas?
BTW, reconsider.
Ok so a very secure Christian doesn't worry about others opinions of their faith.Exactly. *bows*

Actually I love science, except one topic!
Cause and effect? Logic? Gravity?

Cause and effect? Logic? Gravity?

I was guessing reality...

I was guessing reality......they teach reality in science class now? :eek:
No wonder religious people feel threatened! Science isn't just a fringe distraction as much as it is a mechanical understanding of real things in real time in real relationships to other real things in real time! :doubleeek:
...that much harder to pin it as "take it figuratively" or "as a metaphor".

Anybody else think that christians are being bashed by almost everyone?

Anybody else think that all religous people have a persecution complex?

Oh no, of course not. I love christians what with their imposing their religion upon me, constantly reminding me i'll go to hell if I don't accept jesus, waging long campaigns to gets laws that back their belief system but go against forming a 'free' society...no thats all fine so I just sit back and say nothing -.-

So you agree you will go to Hell if you don't accept Jesus?

Okay then.

Sorry that we speak the truth. Wow getting a little defensive here aren't we!

In context of the first post, I almost spat my coke....

Hey gaiz i believe in god because it makes me fiil warm insaid. people need to leave me alone because i'm right. Leave Jesus alone!!!1 Leave him aaalone! don't tell me im worng, that's beign intolerant!1oneoneeleven

A parody puppet?

America is a Christian nation although one of the founding principles of the country was the freedom of religion u cant get away from the fact that all of its founders and every one of its presidents has been a Christian. This is the problem with the west at the very time when we should be rallying around our Christian heritage and traditions, and defend the beliefs of our ancestors we are instead told by the liberal left to marginalise and repudiate our beliefs we are taught there is truth in all teachings and that all religions offer the same path to enlightenment. This is a dangerous ideology, if our youth it taught that our religion our very way of life is not worth fighting for then we will be obliterated by the forces of secularism and islamism morals will disappear and corruption and decadence will bring us down. The third world will rise and they will bring with them there long awaited revenge.

Please be satire, please be satire, please be satire...

It's not satire, is it?

Please be satire, please be satire, please be satire...

It's not satire, is it?

I hope it's not satire.

I like my enemies to be obvious, stupid targets.

In context of the first post, I almost spat my coke....

Ha! On drugs now, are ye?!

All you coked up non-believing persecutors shall burn in the fires of...prestidigitation!

Anybody else think that christians are being bashed by almost everyone?

Christians? Like those idiots that believe in a load of bullshit? Those that are being easily manipulated by fairy tales? By the blind faith in a lousy book about a non-existent omnipotent being? Those that try to slowly force their faith on all the other people?...... No, definitely not!

America is a Christian nation although one of the founding principles of the country was the freedom of religion u cant get away from the fact that all of its founders and every one of its presidents has been a Christian. This is the problem with the west at the very time when we should be rallying around our Christian heritage and traditions, and defend the beliefs of our ancestors we are instead told by the liberal left to marginalise and repudiate our beliefs we are taught there is truth in all teachings and that all religions offer the same path to enlightenment. This is a dangerous ideology, if our youth it taught that our religion our very way of life is not worth fighting for then we will be obliterated by the forces of secularism and islamism morals will disappear and corruption and decadence will bring us down. The third world will rise and they will bring with them there long awaited revenge.

tl;dr Treaty of Tripoli? Never heard of it!

I like my enemies to be obvious, stupid targets.And obviously not in short supply.
Sigworthy. *bows*
:D

tl;dr Treaty of Tripoli? Never heard of it!...that.

America is a Christian nation although one of the founding principles of the country was the freedom of religion u cant get away from the fact that all of its founders and every one of its presidents has been a Christian. This is the problem with the west at the very time when we should be rallying around our Christian heritage and traditions, and defend the beliefs of our ancestors we are instead told by the liberal left to marginalise and repudiate our beliefs we are taught there is truth in all teachings and that all religions offer the same path to enlightenment. This is a dangerous ideology, if our youth it taught that our religion our very way of life is not worth fighting for then we will be obliterated by the forces of secularism and islamism morals will disappear and corruption and decadence will bring us down. The third world will rise and they will bring with them there long awaited revenge.

So, in sum, the Evils of Liberal Politics are:

1. Protecting the rights the Constitution provides for every citizen;
2. Promoting the idea that there are multiple ways to live your life;
3. Having a secular government instead of a theocracy, like so many countries with "islamism"; and
4. Not doing enough to keep third world countries under our boot heel.

God. I feel just sick to be a liberal!

......

;) You know me.

So, in sum, the Evils of Liberal Politics are:

1. Protecting the rights the Constitution provides for every citizen;
2. Promoting the idea that there are multiple ways to live your life;
3. Having a secular government instead of a theocracy, like so many countries with "islamism"; and
4. Not doing enough to keep third world countries under our boot heel.

God. I feel just sick to be a liberal!

Time for Straughn to call you a "libruhl" and show you what's up, mofo.

Are you serious?

Christianity is considered, by mainstream society, a somewhat valid argument--... *snip*
*looks around*

Nope, can't say that it is in mainstream society.

It seems to be a mostly online phenomena where people criticize religions. People feel safe and secure with their identities online without fear of reprisal- be that social reprimanding or whatever else.

I haven't seen too many people say so many purposely insulting things about religions outside the internet. (A few, yes, but not too many)

Anybody else think that all religous people have a persecution complex?
No, no I don't.

America is a Christian nation although one of the founding principles of the country was the freedom of religion u cant get away from the fact that all of its founders and every one of its presidents has been a Christian. This is the problem with the west at the very time when we should be rallying around our Christian heritage and traditions, and defend the beliefs of our ancestors we are instead told by the liberal left to marginalise and repudiate our beliefs we are taught there is truth in all teachings and that all religions offer the same path to enlightenment. This is a dangerous ideology, if our youth it taught that our religion our very way of life is not worth fighting for then we will be obliterated by the forces of secularism and islamism morals will disappear and corruption and decadence will bring us down. The third world will rise and they will bring with them there long awaited revenge.

http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10071/normal_picard-no-facepalm.jpg

America is a Christian nation although one of the founding principles of the country was the freedom of religion u cant get away from the fact that all of its founders and every one of its presidents has been a Christian. This is the problem with the west at the very time when we should be rallying around our Christian heritage and traditions, and defend the beliefs of our ancestors we are instead told by the liberal left to marginalise and repudiate our beliefs we are taught there is truth in all teachings and that all religions offer the same path to enlightenment. This is a dangerous ideology, if our youth it taught that our religion our very way of life is not worth fighting for then we will be obliterated by the forces of secularism and islamism morals will disappear and corruption and decadence will bring us down. The third world will rise and they will bring with them there long awaited revenge.

What does all that have to do with your religion getting bashed ??? Other then making me wonder how many of you would happily bring back the inquisitions.

Every religion gets bashed
I’m a broomstick riding cauldron stirring dancing naked under the stars on the solstice Pagan.
I’ve been a Christian - a Buddhist, read Joseph Campbell, Egyptian myths, Greek Myths.
and they all ask the same questions.
why is this shit happening to me?
what the Hell is the point of this anyway ?
and may I please have just a little life?
I became a Pagan because I fell in love with the life style and mostly because my very best friends are Pagans.

when I was an Atheist it was the Christian menace
when I was a Christian it was the Atheist menace
when I was a Buddhist I was suppose to send my money to free Tibet (and I didn’t give 3 shits about Tibet)
as a Pagan everyone is out to get us
and everyone else replies “and who are the pagans exactly”?

yes Western world is Christian dominated and I do have to admit Christians do get bashed alot.
but the Christians are the top dog right now.
I love being a pagan because we are small - no one notices “much”.
but I do know some pagans who have been persecuted in a court of law for basically not being Christian.
I would not say that is a legitimate argument for bashing Christianity or any proof of Christian preferance in government - but a lack of adherence to the law.
as an American I do feel the pressure of Christian dominance.
but that is to be expected.
the big dog barks the loudest.
but I also know alot of Christians who have defended my right to worship as I believe.
religion and politics are pretty much the same thing.

what ever your religion/politics is it’s usually dedicated to keeping you from experiencing the thing it represents, probably because of the fear that it just might be right.

I promote tolerance - but I doubt thats realistic.
it’s a nice idea though.

Anybody else think that christians are being bashed by almost everyone?
No. A few internet cranks =/= "almost everyone."

Yea and what gets on my nerves is us christians aren't doing anything. We stand back and watch atheists rise into power!!!
I would be interested to know just what you think Christians should be doing.

Time for Straughn to call you a "libruhl" and show you what's up, mofo.

Eh?

America is a Christian nation although one of the founding principles of the country was the freedom of religion u cant get away from the fact that all of its founders and every one of its presidents has been a Christian. This is the problem with the west at the very time when we should be rallying around our Christian heritage and traditions, and defend the beliefs of our ancestors we are instead told by the liberal left to marginalise and repudiate our beliefs we are taught there is truth in all teachings and that all religions offer the same path to enlightenment. This is a dangerous ideology, if our youth it taught that our religion our very way of life is not worth fighting for then we will be obliterated by the forces of secularism and islamism morals will disappear and corruption and decadence will bring us down. The third world will rise and they will bring with them there long awaited revenge.

http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/jesusjeez.jpg

I would be interested to know just what you think Christians should be doing.
To quote Groucho Marx, "Whatever it is, I'm against it!"

As a Christian, I have no qualms whatsoever for Atheists, or just about anyone else, coming into power as long as the ideal of freedom for and from religion is followed to a T. In fact, I would rather representatives of all kinds are in power, let us indeed have over a thousand voices competing, because we have more than a thousand different views on things and they all need a chance to be heard in the open for people to decide upon.

I would like to say a few things:

First:

You CAN both be a Christian and promote religious tolerance.

Second:

Atheists/agnostics can go out of control in their criticisms of religion to an extent that it seems they don't even try to understand religion and just feel that everything about it is baloney. I have seen some posts on this thread and others that make me come to the conclusion that some of both groups, the Christians and the Agnostic/Atheists on NSG, tend to feel the "victim complex", in which everything that does not agree with them is out to get them.

Third:

The "victim complex" seems to arise from a refusal by both parties to live and let live. They cannot stand the existence of the other and their way of thinking, and feel that they must take it upon themselves to change the other's mind, no matter how ridiculous they may sound in the process. Essentially, it's degraded itself into a "holy war" between the two sides.

Fourth:

This is why I'm advocating, as a conservative Christian and a person who believes in freedom of speech, a temporary moratorium on religious threads for a while. Let everybody cool down and really think about what they've been saying to each other, because really, a world in which religion and tradition are either held as unalterable gospel or are thrown completely by the wayside as yesteryear's garbage do nobody any good. They are valuable pieces of our heritage, ethics, and spiritual life, but they should not be the one thing that determines everything in our lives either. They have their place in our society as things to be respected, but they are not above criticism.

Thank you.

Anybody else think that all religous people have a persecution complex?
At least the abrahamics. After all, the bible was written by a "people" with a persecution complex. So what else can be expected from religions deriving from this "people's" beliefs?

You CAN both be a Christian and promote religious tolerance.How so if the Christian "god" demands otherwise?

Allow me to present UB as an example of my second and third above points.

Allow me to present UB as an example of my second and third above points.
Oh UB can be used as an example for a some of things wrong with some Atheists. It's always fun to see some of the threads with moderate, reasoned, opinions by some of the Atheists come crashing down their ears with the entrance of UB. It gives me a warm feeling to note then that not all the idiots are Christian.

I would like to say a few things:

First:

You CAN both be a Christian and promote religious tolerance.

Second:

Atheists/agnostics can go out of control in their criticisms of religion to an extent that it seems they don't even try to understand religion and just feel that everything about it is baloney. I have seen some posts on this thread and others that make me come to the conclusion that some of both groups, the Christians and the Agnostic/Atheists on NSG, tend to feel the "victim complex", in which everything that does not agree with them is out to get them.

Third:

The "victim complex" seems to arise from a refusal by both parties to live and let live. They cannot stand the existence of the other and their way of thinking, and feel that they must take it upon themselves to change the other's mind, no matter how ridiculous they may sound in the process. Essentially, it's degraded itself into a "holy war" between the two sides.

EXTREMELY well said...

Fourth:

This is why I'm advocating, as a conservative Christian and a person who believes in freedom of speech, a temporary moratorium on religious threads for a while. Let everybody cool down and really think about what they've been saying to each other, because really, a world in which religion and tradition are either held as unalterable gospel or are thrown completely by the wayside as yesteryear's garbage do nobody any good. They are valuable pieces of our heritage, ethics, and spiritual life, but they should not be the one thing that determines everything in our lives either. They have their place in our society as things to be respected, but they are not above criticism.

... but get real. How long have you been on NSG?
People respecting each other? People thinking about what they're saying, and what they believe? A moratorium on religious threads? When has there been a day without a religious thread?
I'm sorry, sir. The world you dream of simply cannot be.
I'm gonna go back to the pissing match now.

Oh UB can be used as an example for a some of things wrong with some Atheists. It's always fun to see some of the threads with moderate, reasoned, opinions by some of the Atheists come crashing down their ears with the entrance of UB. It gives me a warm feeling to note then that not all the idiots are Christian.True. You must not forget the Muslims and the Jews, of course. It does not take an atheist to see that the biblical god is an invention. And once that point has been accepted there is no way to view followers of this invention as sane people. Belief means to pretend that the deity exists although it is the most irrational thing to do with all the evidence against it and lack of evidence for it, and considering the history of those who wrote down the stories surrounding this invented deity. It is a chosen delusion. There is no way that a healthy brain can harbor a mind that believes in the biblical god. And that has nothing to do with anybody's atheism at all.

Time for Straughn to call you a "libruhl" and show you what's up, mofo.

hominahominahominawhat?