NationStates Jolt Archive

Not to detract from your point, but as a history major, I must nit-pick. :p

I really, really don't like the term "dark ages." It ranks up there with Romans wearing lorica segmentata, no matter what period of the Republic or Empire is being depicted, or The Mummy Returns Egyptians.
but... but it was dark. the winds kept blowing out their candles.

it stopped being the dark ages when the Covered lantern was invented. :D

Ok in recent centuries what have other races contributed to the world through there own ability?
sa
Considering that for the majority of the time, they've been oppressed at the best of times, and enslaved at the worst-- and that the after-effects of this are still visible today-- it's hardly surprising that they haven't contributed as much. But you want an example? Try Albert Einstein-- a Jew--which is, by your own prior "source," a separate race.

Asia has imitated white civilization in recent centuries.

You vastly oversimplify things. We've borrowed from them about as much as they have from us.

Africa is still a, for lack of better term shit hole.

And this had nothing to do with colonialism and the problems it created, right?

Australasia is is generally a white continent.

Yeah, because the amazing white race, as a whole, went over and killed the locals and took their stuff. (Y'know, if our race gets to claim credit for all the brilliant things it's done, then we have to take the blame for anything bad we've done, like the conquest of North America, slavery, and the Holocaust.)

South & central America are to a degree copying white civilization.
Not really. They have a fairly distinct culture. Sure, they borrow elements of other peoples' cultures, and other people borrow from them.

Again your being an idiot. I am using the white race as a generalization. Are you so incapable that you still fail to realize that despite being told several times!
And my entire point is that such a generalization is silly.

I do not think my race is superior, as i said before.

So you claim; the rest of your words indicate otherwise.
Like I asked before-- though I'm sure you'll ignore it again-- what rational reason is there to believe in "race treachery" if you do not consider your race better than others? (Note-- the belief in race treachery must follow logically from the reason. You must demonstrate how it does, or the reason is invalid.)

Again, your idiocity i was using white culture as a generalization of European culture (Europe being the essential homeland of the white person)
I pointed that out as well.

And it's incredibly stupid to do so. As much as we often refer to "European culture," there really is no such homogeneous thing. Europe is an incredibly diverse continent with many different cultures. To speak of "white culture" is even sillier. A black man from the United States will, in general, have more in common with a white man from the United States than, say, a white man from Russia will. Even more so if both Americans are from the same region!


So next time read my posts and think before you post.
Yeah, thinking before posting is a good idea. Too bad inbred rednecks like you don't do it.

The white race has only led the world for the past 200 years, with its rise beginning 500 years ago. Prior to that, Europe was a third world shit hole when compared to the Middle East or China. If your belief is that "white" civilization is superior, not the white race itself, then you should be unperturbed by the white race intermingling. After all, if you believe that no race is superior or inferior, then non-whites are just as capable at following "white civilization" as whites.
*applause*
How much you want to bet that he just ignores this?

A thousand years at least? Have you never even heard of the dark ages?

Not to detract from your point, but as a history major, I must nit-pick. :p

I really, really don't like the term "dark ages." It ranks up there with Romans wearing lorica segmentata, no matter what period of the Republic or Empire is being depicted, or The Mummy Returns Egyptians.

EDIT: That is to say, it's a somewhat annoying piece of popular history, but it's really not an accurate term that you generally should use.

Racist ignorant drivel blah blah blah

Really made my eyes water..with a burning hurting sensation. Science has proven that there is less than a 2% genetic difference between the different races. Though there is a much difference between say Eastern Europeans and White Americans as there is between White Americans and African Americans or Arabs. It is ridiculous and unscientific.

Scientific proof says that life originated in Africa, and those from India consider themself to be closer to the original race.

I never had an introduction to racism. I went to an almost all black school, and we were all friends and got along fine. I only found out Racism still existed when someone told me it did.

Actually, then you know nothing of old European powers; Venice, the various Frankish Empire, the Eastern Roman Empire, Greece, the Hellenic domains, the Roman Empire, the folk of the Bull, etc so do not just say Europe was a shit hole as Europe actually never as you desribed as in Europe there was always at one exception to this.

In the Dark Ages there were the glories of Byzantium, the honor of the Lombards, the empire of Charlemagne, and the great travels of the Vikings. So do not be so quick to state such things.

If you want to go further back up to about 2000 B.C. their were complex societies in Europe, as also there were in China, the Americas, the Middle East, and along the banks of the Nile.

In the end though humanity's civilizations are founded along the principle of trade. That humanity's desire to explore tech, the world, and the very universe is what creates civilizations of man. As suich this shared desire compels humanity forward.

I would agree with not calling Europe a shit hole, but they still were not a world power. Besides the Romans, European powers were not much in comparison to China or the Islamic Empire until late in both of those powers' decline.

Actually, then you know nothing of old European powers; Venice, the various Frankish Empire, the Eastern Roman Empire, Greece, the Hellenic domains, the Roman Empire, the folk of the Bull, etc so do not just say Europe was a shit hole as Europe actually never as you desribed as in Europe there was always at one exception to this.

In the Dark Ages there were the glories of Byzantium, the honor of the Lombards, the empire of Charlemagne, and the great travels of the Vikings. So do not be so quick to state such things.

If you want to go further back up to about 2000 B.C. their were complex societies in Europe, as also there were in China, the Americas, the Middle East, and along the banks of the Nile.

In the end though humanity's civilizations are founded along the principle of trade. That humanity's desire to explore tech, the world, and the very universe is what creates civilizations of man. As suich this shared desire compels humanity forward.

Your examples, notable in European history, were relatively insignificant in terms of global history, noteworthy only in that they laid the groundwork for contemporary Western Civilization. Europe, upon until relatively recently, has remained very much behind the times globally. The Lombards, Franks, and Vikings are in no way comparable to the Abbassid Caliphate or the Tang Empire.

Maybe. But I didn't see many Westerners up that far north. I'm pretty sure I was the only white guy in Punjab...:) At least the only one that I knew about.

Of course in Delhi, I had to pay the snake charmers NOT to show me the snakes.

People in the backwater, even around popular tourist attractions, tend to act poorly around outsiders, regardless of skin color. I remember this distinctly when visiting in Ambaji in 1998. They took one look at my clothes and wrote me off as a foreigner, despite being brown.

My family is quite racist, and thus has been passed unto me :D

I do not remember the first time, but I remember one time when it happened.

I was friends with a guy named Pete. Now, Pete was a good guy. Very polite and courteous. One day Peter brought his sister Marie over to my house and for no reason at all, while we're all in the living room, little Marie says "I don't want to be here, Pete," and he says "Why not?" and she says, out of the clear blue sky, "I don't like black boys."

:eek:

Pete's face was priceless, and we're no longer friends, but yeah.

It was all good at the (bangles) shop until they heard me speak. My English accent gave me away and they tried to cheat me (by doing some weird math stuff and raising prices). Fortunately, I didn't fall for it.

That happened to me once. I walked out of the store and sent my dad in to buy it. It was something like 75% of the price they told me it was.

People in the backwater, even around popular tourist attractions, tend to act poorly around outsiders, regardless of skin color. I remember this distinctly when visiting in Ambaji in 1998. They took one look at my clothes and wrote me off as a foreigner, despite being brown.

It was all good at the (bangles) shop until they heard me speak. My English accent gave me away and they tried to cheat me (by doing some weird math stuff and raising prices). Fortunately, I didn't fall for it.

I do not remember the first time, but I remember one time when it happened.

I was friends with a guy named Pete. Now, Pete was a good guy. Very polite and courteous. One day Peter brought his sister Marie over to my house and for no reason at all, while we're all in the living room, little Marie says "I don't want to be here, Pete," and he says "Why not?" and she says, out of the clear blue sky, "I don't like black boys."

:eek:

Pete's face was priceless, and we're no longer friends, but yeah.

LOL.

Also, one time I was taking a walk around my neighborhood and this wigger known very well around the neighborhood called me a "******" once. I laughed at him and said "And you are what, exactly?" - he looked at me baffled and just walked off.

That happened to me once. I walked out of the store and sent my dad in to buy it. It was something like 75% of the price they told me it was.

:p

I had something similar when I went for some video games too. Except, instead of charging me extra, they tried to stick in a game I hadn't asked for, and charge me for it.

:p

I had something similar when I went for some video games too. Except, instead of charging me extra, they tried to stick in a game I hadn't asked for, and charge me for it.

Such statements are generally followed by, "And that's how I came to own a copy of My Little Pony DS."

:D

Your examples, notable in European history, were relatively insignificant in terms of global history, noteworthy only in that they laid the groundwork for contemporary Western Civilization. Europe, upon until relatively recently, has remained very much behind the times globally. The Lombards, Franks, and Vikings are in no way comparable to the Abbassid Caliphate or the Tang Empire.That is because they are a completely alien culture to them and also the achievements of the Abbassid were based upon the achievements of the Persians, Romans, Greeks, Chinese, and Egyptians.

Such statements are generally followed by, "And that's how I came to own a copy of My Little Pony DS."

:D

:p

Well, how else would I have gotten it?

It was actually Age of Empires III though.

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Race is meaningless? Well race decides your very genetic structure, is that meaningless?

Erm, no, it doesn't. "Race" as we use it has almost no biological basis whatsoever - you are, in fact, quite likely to be genotypically more similar to a randomly chosen black man than a randomly chosen white man.

Some mildly belligerent Mexicans when I was in middle school, immsmc.

I'm proud of my blue eyes. Think of all the things blue-eyed people have accomplished. I'm not saying they're superior. We just rule the world and have for 1000 years. Every important achievement.... blue-eyed people.

I'm tired of people mixing our blue-eyed culture with those "other" cultures. Is it wrong to wish to preserve blue-eyes through non-violent means? Cuz if it's not, line up, blue-eyed women, cuz I can go for days.

READ MY POSTS, I AHVE SAID IT WHAT, FOUR TIMES NOW? I 'M USING THE WHITE RACE AS A GENERALIZATION FOR THE PEOPLE IN IT.

If this is what it means to be white, I'm not.

I've experienced racism from day one, I'm sorry to say. Back in the old town, my Polish neighbors used to call me "dziecko," which my mother had to explain to me means "******" in their language (approximately). An old Greek newspaper salesman used to taunt me in a similar vein: "ti kaneis;" he would say ("to the devil with you"). Of course, that doesn't sound too bad, until you realize that in Orthodox Christian countries, that sort of thing amounts to the worst kind of slur. :(

What was your first introduction to racism?

Handing me the family hood,some petrol and matches Father placed his hand on my shoulder and said 'One day son, all this will be yours'......


I want to preserve my race, i don't want the other races to die out but i don't want my own to either.


Well, the best way to preserve your own race would possibly be to have no sex with anyone other than yourself. You have my backing, certainly.

So I know I'm way behind in the thread, but meh.
'
Football-related bigotry/sectarianism is absolutely inane.


Damn straight. Ice Hockey on the other hand...

You make the assumption they have the freewill not to commit crime.
This is not true.

EVERYBODY has the freewill not to commit crime. Staying within the law maybe a much more difficult path, but to say there's no choice is to alleviate responsibility for criminal behavior. That's what justice is... holding ALL people to the same legal standard.


When the hell did i say i was racist? When the hell did i say i had racist idea's? when did i do anything ignorant!


Dude... reading that poem you posted ALONE would constitute a perfectly legitimate response to my OP.


Pete's face was priceless, and we're no longer friends, but yeah.

The friendship didn't end over that incident, did it?

I'm proud of my blue eyes. Think of all the things blue-eyed people have accomplished. I'm not saying they're superior. We just rule the world and have for 1000 years. Every important achievement.... blue-eyed people.

I'm tired of people mixing our blue-eyed culture with those "other" cultures. Is it wrong to wish to preserve blue-eyes through non-violent means? Cuz if it's not, line up, blue-eyed women, cuz I can go for days.

No way man. It's all about fat people. Fat people have accomplished vastly more than you blue-eyed mongrel subhumans. We're more jolly, we survive longer in cold weather, we can go longer without food... we're the camels of the human genetic line. Think of all the important fat people in history... Ben Franklin, Winston Churchill, Dom Deluise, John Candy...

eh, the ignorant westernized young men and women in my country?
I despise them, so that maybe my first take on racism...

Also, one time I was taking a walk around my neighborhood and this wigger known very well around the neighborhood called me a "******" once. I laughed at him and said "And you are what, exactly?" - he looked at me baffled and just walked off.

Using "wigger" is only minutely better. It's pretty much promoting the concept that A - there is such a thing as acting like a "******" and B - that it's significant that a white person is doing it.

Using "wigger" is only minutely better. It's pretty much promoting the concept that A - there is such a thing as acting like a "******" and B - that it's significant that a white person is doing it.

Exhibit A: Nigga Moment (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/128845/nigga_moment/)*










* This is merely taken from one of my favourite shows, The Boondocks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boondocks_%28TV_series%29) and in no way intended to be racist; I just thought it seemed to fit the context. :)

I'm white, and thus immune to racism.

I'm white, and thus immune to racism.

Nonsense. How 'bout the status of white Eastern Europeans in Western Europe? Shouldn't the term racism apply?

Nonsense. How 'bout the status of white Eastern Europeans in Western Europe? Shouldn't the term racism apply?

Whites can't be racist against whites because whites are some magical homogeneous carton of milk. :p

Nonsense. How 'bout the status of white Eastern Europeans in Western Europe? Shouldn't the term racism apply?

It was a joke, and no, it shouldn't. Eastern Europeans aren't a race.

It was a joke, and no, it shouldn't. Eastern Europeans aren't a race.

Technically you're right (on the racism, not on the joke ;)). Nevertheless the treatment they receive in some parts of Western Europe is close to racism in my opinion.

Technically you're right (on the racism, not on the joke ;)). Nevertheless the treatment they receive in some parts of Western Europe is close to racism in my opinion.

The word is discrimination.

And on that note, Pet Peeve:
People who think that 'racism' means the same thing as 'discrimination'.

The word is discrimination.

And on that note, Pet Peeve:
People who think that 'racism' means the same thing as 'discrimination'.

Conceded.

The word is discrimination.

And on that note, Pet Peeve:
People who think that 'racism' means the same thing as 'discrimination'.I disagree. Technically, "whites" aren't a race either. Being unkind to slavs on the grounds that they're slavs is racism, regardless of whether you share a skin color. Discrimination is the umbrella term that includes non-ethnic mistreatment of the "others".

Ok, I'm getting confused. Once I grew out of my the attitudes inculcated in during my childhood, I realized that there is only one race, the human race, everything else is adaptation for the local climate and environment. If there are aspects of a certain genetic adaptation that please you, say blue eyes, then by all means work to keep them in the gene pool. But please stop this foolish talk about different human races, science doesn't support it.

I was four when we had our first democratic elections, so the early years of my life were technically still apartheid, although more like the "dismantling" of apartheid at the time, both my parents and their families were strong anti-apartheid so I was very aware of it. My mother used to take me to ANC rallies in a baleka (the traditional african way of wrapping and carrying a baby or small child on the mothers back), all the people in our upper-class white neighbourhood thought we were weird for adopting some african customs, and because our maid/caretaker spoke proper Zulu to both me and my brother, fed us traditional food, etc. We also were pretty close with an open-minded afrikaans family, like cousins almost... sharing groceries and looking after each others kids cause we were all pretty poor at the time.

I remember in my pre-school it was pretty mixed for both the students and teachers, I remember in my class there were some black kids, a couple of indian girls, some coloureds, english kids, afrikaans kids, even two asians I think. Our teachers were Xhosa, French Canadian, Afrikaans, Indian and English... the caretaker was a coloured woman. We never had racial incidents though, not even like a comment or anything. Infact the only person anyone was weird about was the caretakers daughter, and that was because she was retarded and most of the kids didn't know how to interact with her, but once they got used to her everyone realised she was really sweet and harmless.

It's weird, racism is pretty common everyday around me when you go to the shops, sitting in traffic and you can see someone mouth the word "kaffer" and you just kinda get used to tuning out the adults comments, but I'd never actually experienced even racist acknowledgement in my own peer group until highschool. It was pretty strange, we'd been studying apartheid hectically for the last month or two and were sitting at break discussing it because of a) we'd just come out of a serious history lesson, and b) we had an upcoming test. And one of my friends made some comment about us (as whites) being guilty/responsible/to blame for everything, and I just turned to her and said "Why? We were born at the end of apartheid, we can't even remember it, what have we ever done to hurt anyone? I don't see why I should have to apologise for something I didn't do, something not even my parents or grandparents did. Why should I be sorry for anything other than that it happened?" It was the first time I'd even consider that I should be responsible for apartheid or the struggle, and I was quite weirded out by it.

(Sorry it's so long!)

I was four when we had our first democratic elections, so the early years of my life were technically still apartheid, although more like the "dismantling" of apartheid at the time, both my parents and their families were strong anti-apartheid so I was very aware of it. My mother used to take me to ANC rallies in a baleka (the traditional african way of wrapping and carrying a baby or small child on the mothers back), all the people in our upper-class white neighbourhood thought we were weird for adopting some african customs, and because our maid/caretaker spoke proper Zulu to both me and my brother, fed us traditional food, etc. We also were pretty close with an open-minded afrikaans family, like cousins almost... sharing groceries and looking after each others kids cause we were all pretty poor at the time.

I remember in my pre-school it was pretty mixed for both the students and teachers, I remember in my class there were some black kids, a couple of indian girls, some coloureds, english kids, afrikaans kids, even two asians I think. Our teachers were Xhosa, French Canadian, Afrikaans, Indian and English... the caretaker was a coloured woman. We never had racial incidents though, not even like a comment or anything. Infact the only person anyone was weird about was the caretakers daughter, and that was because she was retarded and most of the kids didn't know how to interact with her, but once they got used to her everyone realised she was really sweet and harmless.

It's weird, racism is pretty common everyday around me when you go to the shops, sitting in traffic and you can see someone mouth the word "kaffer" and you just kinda get used to tuning out the adults comments, but I'd never actually experienced even racist acknowledgement in my own peer group until highschool. It was pretty strange, we'd been studying apartheid hectically for the last month or two and were sitting at break discussing it because of a) we'd just come out of a serious history lesson, and b) we had an upcoming test. And one of my friends made some comment about us (as whites) being guilty/responsible/to blame for everything, and I just turned to her and said "Why? We were born at the end of apartheid, we can't even remember it, what have we ever done to hurt anyone? I don't see why I should have to apologise for something I didn't do, something not even my parents or grandparents did. Why should I be sorry for anything other than that it happened?" It was the first time I'd even consider that I should be responsible for apartheid or the struggle, and I was quite weirded out by it.

What does "kaffer" mean? what was it that caused aparthid?:confused:

What does "kaffer" mean? what was it that caused aparthid?:confused:

If you think ****** is offensive... think again.
Nothing really quite explains the amount of contempt and abuse conveyed in the term except seeing someone who really means it use it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaffir_%28Historical_usage_in_southern_Africa%29

What started apartheid? A bunch of fat old white men in the 40s.
Wikipedia has a decent brief about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheid

I do not see how "you lied because we are black" is in any way an exposure to racism. If it were "you lied because you are white" then I'd see it. But racism is judgement of someone based on their race, and "you lied because we are black" doesn't make any judgement against you on account of your race. It may suggest that he believed you were predisposed ot be racists against him, which may be considered a bias.

But frankly I don't see how it could be construed as "racist"

He was being accused of racism, that's what his exposure to it was.
you're a little dense at time aren't you?

As soon as I was allowed out of the house the racist confed neighbors started their racial abuse immidiatly. It was the usual, physical attacks, emotional abuse...the usual. Luckily when I was already 14 the government placed more politically correct laws into place so bullying, and racial attacks were actionable. Now you all know why I'm kinda pissed at Southern Culture and their illogical bigotry.

Ok, ENOUGH.

I am tired of this thread.

I am not going to argue anymore but i will say this:


Anything the mentions Aryan and Zionist in the same breath (figuratively speaking...) is racist bullshit. Period.

Why have i been tasked with finding links for such things?

I couldn't care less about the point somebody made earlier. My point is about liberals and multi-cult-urals. If i wanted an in depth argument i will go to my friends. Who are far more open minded and intelligent than what i have seen today in this thread.

Have you ever heard the phrase, "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..."? My reinterpretation: If he(she,it) acts like a racist asshat and posts links to racist asshats sites, he(she, it) is probably a racist asshat.

Don't remember, don't care.

If this is what it means to be white, I'm not.

Troof. Where do I sign up?

If i wanted an in depth argument i will go to my friends. Who are far more open minded and intelligent than what i have seen today in this thread.Yes, you mentioned earlier (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13350183&postcount=77) that you preferred Stormfront.

Heh short and sweet from me, when I brought home a black girlfriend and saw the look on my dads face!

Heh short and sweet from me, when I brought home a black girlfriend and saw the look on my dads face!

envy?

Yes, you mentioned earlier (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13350183&postcount=77) that you preferred Stormfront.

Good eyes, friend.

Yes, you mentioned earlier (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13350183&postcount=77) that you preferred Stormfront.

It's so sad that such things prosper in today's world.

He was being accused of racism, that's what his exposure to it was.
you're a little dense at time aren't you?

Although even if I weren't the accused or the accuser, and simply observed that conversation from the outside, it would still be my first contact with racism because up to that point it would never have occurred to me that skin color would be a motivation to tell a lie against someone.

envy?

Naaa hatred.

racism is wrong period. unfortunatly people are seeing this less and less ecspecially in the UK as 'forigners' 'muslim terrorists' and genrally 'people who come over here stealin our jobs' are to blame for everything and this bullshit is leading to an increased popularity in the BNP i feel the media in part are to blame. i say STOP THIS CRAP NOW! and punch anyone who uses these phrases

I remember when I was a kid, maybe 6 years old or so, when I was playing outside with the other kids in the apartment complex and heard a loud bang. It took a few moments, but we all suddenly realized that one of the windshield panes in a large stepvan had been smashed, presumably with a rock.

Nobody knew how it had happened, but a couple of days later a man, whom I later realized represented the insurance company, came to talk to me about what had happened, to try and determine who threw the rock. He was interviewing all the kids, of course, and it was just my turn.

So I told him what I remembered, and he asked me several detailed questions about exactly where each kid was standing. I told him, as best I could recall.

A couple days later, one of the kids who was there that day confronted me angrily. He said his younger brother had been accused of throwing the rock. I felt bad for him, but couldn't understand why I was being confronted. He said "You lied on my brother." Which caught me by surprise. I hadn't lied. I had told the investigator that this guys' brother had been standing next to the tree. Plain and simple. "How did I lie?" I asked him. "You said he was standing some two feet from the tree. He was farther than that." I couldn't imagine how that could possibly be relevant, but I knew I hadn't lied and I said so. He said to me: "You lied on us because we're black."

That was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard. What possible reason would I have to lie about somebody because of what color his skin was?

And so it was that I was introduced to the wonderful world of racism. This was in 1980 and I can only assume this kid had probably overheard his parents saying something like that, and was only parroting it. It hurt me greatly, because I wasn't a liar and I especially didn't care what color his skin was, but he wouldn't listen, and things between us were never the same after that.

So what's your story?

I have never had racism directed towards myself (is the above really racism?), but sadly, virtually everyone I know is racist. I would say the first time I was personally exposed to it was with my father. I believe my mother is racist too, but in a very unusual way.

A funny thing happened in a restaurant once. I was four, and my mum was trying to brief me on racial tensions. It got into this discussion about being judged for your skin. Then I said: "I don't know about other people, but I like having white skin". For some reason, the more my mum tried to get me to be quiet, (kids talk loudly) the more I talked. We soon left. :p

I first learned about racism in school. In 3rd grade, my teacher held an experiment to teach the students about racism. As each student arrived at the start of the day, they recieved either a yellow or green wristband. Yellows were superior to greens.

Now, I already held a strong belief that everybody is equal. So even though I recieved a yellow wristband, I reacted to this racism. Violently.

My first action was to tear off my own wristband. I completely ignored the rules regarding separation of colors. I ripped down signs that said "Yellow only" or "Green only". I even attempted (unsuccessfully) to tear off another student's (green) wristband. Without asking his permission.

In 4th grade, I produced a number of book reports that solidified my opinions on discrimination. Three were on picture histories - of the civil rights movement, the women's rights movement, and the Japanese internment camps. A fourth was on a Holocaust memoir, "I Have Lived A Thousand Years".

I have an opinion of racists similar to the opinion racists have against the people they discriminate against. In my opinion, racists are inferior scumbags who do not deserve my respect.

I still hold a fervent belief that all people are created equal, and deserve the same rights. This is a belief that I would kill for.

My family never taught me racism either explicitly or implicitly. My grandfather told me when someone else making a racist remark about lazy niggers, in his normal hillbilly accent (that I shared when I was young), that skin color was of "no 'count" and that he had worked in the mines with black folks and he had never noticed them being any more lazy than white folks.

That was not my first experience with racism, though. The first incident that I can remember was when I was 4 years old and a kid in the daycare place I went to said that "black guys are stronger than white guys". My response was "that's silly" in part because it was silly, and in part because I had never thought of people as being "black" or "white" prior to that moment. I just thought of people as people.

I never considered him a black kid until after he introduced that idea to me.

I first learned about racism in school. In 3rd grade, my teacher held an experiment to teach the students about racism. As each student arrived at the start of the day, they recieved either a yellow or green wristband. Yellows were superior to greens.

Now, I already held a strong belief that everybody is equal. So even though I recieved a yellow wristband, I reacted to this racism. Violently.

My first action was to tear off my own wristband. I completely ignored the rules regarding separation of colors. I ripped down signs that said "Yellow only" or "Green only". I even attempted (unsuccessfully) to tear off another student's (green) wristband. Without asking his permission.

In 4th grade, I produced a number of book reports that solidified my opinions on discrimination. Three were on picture histories - of the civil rights movement, the women's rights movement, and the Japanese internment camps. A fourth was on a Holocaust memoir, "I Have Lived A Thousand Years".

I have an opinion of racists similar to the opinion racists have against the people they discriminate against. In my opinion, racists are inferior scumbags who do not deserve my respect.

I still hold a fervent belief that all people are created equal, and deserve the same rights. This is a belief that I would kill for.

Isn't this somewhat contradictory?

Isn't this somewhat contradictory?

Could you be a little more specific?

Anyway, on to "race pride".

Racial pride is wrong. To claim that a given achievement was the product of a specific race is wrong.

On the other hand, cultural pride is justifiable. If race/ethnicity is a collection of genes, culture is a collection of memes. And memes do influence a person's actions. It is justified to be proud that you share memes with a given person, even if you are completely unrelated.

Here is an example. Most people will agree that Mother Theresa was a great person. She devoted her entire life to helping the poor. And her actions were strongly influenced by her Catholic memes, judging by the fact that she fought to allow her movement to be considered part of the Church.

Anyone who shares Mother Theresa's Catholic beliefs can be justifiably proud that this selfless woman was a Catholic. They have a common memetic heritage. They may have no genes in common, but that's not important.

Your culture is determined not by your genes, but your memes.

Anyway, on to "race pride".

Racial pride is wrong. To claim that a given achievement was the product of a specific race is wrong.


Sometimes I wonder if it would have been better off to invent a new word for this rather than suffer the consiquences of it being misunderstood.

In these instances, like with parades, 'pride' is used in implied correlation to its opposite, shame. It's not so much looking at an acheivement by someone of your 'race' and saying "He did that, ergo I did that," but rather an acknowledgment that you are a participant and not just a passenger.

If you look at the way history is taught in the US you'd think that 'black' is histories bitch. A bunch of people did some horrible things to them but then had a really big fight about it and stopped and after a while admitted they're super sorry...and that's your contribution. Pride in a accomplishments just means acknowledging that that isn't the case, not necessarily taking credit for them. That there is a different story to tell.

Now I'm not saying it doesn't get bogged (really, I don't need to hear about the peanut guy every February) but it does serve a purpose.

Yes, you mentioned earlier (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13350183&postcount=77) that you preferred Stormfront.


Maybe they could make the thought a slogan on the e-mail welcoming new members ......

'Greetings WeWillRiseAgain . Welkome to Stormfront - Forums for a better class of person'.

I have an opinion of racists similar to the opinion racists have against the people they discriminate against. In my opinion, racists are inferior scumbags who do not deserve my respect.


They're not inferior. They're ignorant.

They're not inferior. They're ignorant.

No, ignorant implies that they simply don't know any better-- but that they would, if presented with evidence, change their minds. They're far worse than ignorant: they're stupid.

No, ignorant implies that they simply don't know any better-- but that they would, if presented with evidence, change their minds. They're far worse than ignorant: they're stupid.

Maybe I'm overly optimistic but I disagree. I think they're ignorant with a healthy dose of stubbornness added in. If someone has been raised to hold racist views then simply telling them the facts isn't going to persuade them. I think the movie American History X is a great story because it teaches that Derek, an intelligent and good person at heart, was twisted by rhetoric and tragedy to become an uber-racist, but was turned back to the 'good side' by interacting with people who were patient with him and showed him the truth rather than simply preaching it.

I first learned about racism in school. In 3rd grade, my teacher held an experiment to teach the students about racism. As each student arrived at the start of the day, they recieved either a yellow or green wristband. Yellows were superior to greens.

Now, I already held a strong belief that everybody is equal. So even though I recieved a yellow wristband, I reacted to this racism. Violently.

My first action was to tear off my own wristband. I completely ignored the rules regarding separation of colors. I ripped down signs that said "Yellow only" or "Green only". I even attempted (unsuccessfully) to tear off another student's (green) wristband. Without asking his permission.

In 4th grade, I produced a number of book reports that solidified my opinions on discrimination. Three were on picture histories - of the civil rights movement, the women's rights movement, and the Japanese internment camps. A fourth was on a Holocaust memoir, "I Have Lived A Thousand Years".

I have an opinion of racists similar to the opinion racists have against the people they discriminate against. In my opinion, racists are inferior scumbags who do not deserve my respect.

I still hold a fervent belief that all people are created equal, and deserve the same rights. This is a belief that I would kill for.

You show those teachers who were trying to make a point. Never again will they try to make a point.

Though they were doing it a bit early in a students developmental career. My class did something similar...but in 8th grade.

Ok, I'm getting confused. Once I grew out of my the attitudes inculcated in during my childhood, I realized that there is only one race, the human race, everything else is adaptation for the local climate and environment. If there are aspects of a certain genetic adaptation that please you, say blue eyes, then by all means work to keep them in the gene pool. But please stop this foolish talk about different human races, science doesn't support it.
But when those geographically separated populations did adapt to their environments, what reason do we have to believe that those adaptations aren't sustantive in ways that matter in modern society?

Blue eyed people are more sensitive to bright lights, for example. What if some human population groups were better at spatial relations? Or had better night vision? Or were impervious to some diseases?

Do these not matter?

But when those geographically separated populations did adapt to their environments, what reason do we have to believe that those adaptations aren't sustantive in ways that matter in modern society?

Blue eyed people are more sensitive to bright lights, for example. What if some human population groups were better at spatial relations? Or had better night vision? Or were impervious to some diseases?

Do these not matter?

Well, if I'm not mistaken there are differences between the races that are substantive. Such as the genes the cause sickle cell anemia also result in the carriers being much less susceptible to malaria. Or that lighter skinned people are better off in places with less light and worse off in very sunny areas. Whether or not one considers this to be important in "modern society" depends. I doubt a poor person in Africa can afford to wear sunscreen everyday, or would pass up other beneficial products to buy it, so a white person would not do as well on average due to a genetic disadvantage, assuming they were poor.

I think it would have been interesting to see if people could/would have developed into different species if left alone long enough or if our ability to alter our survival tactics and surroundings would have been sufficient to keep us all on the same track.


My first exposure to racism? I don't remember exactly, however I do remember when I became a racist. All the black kids were annoying me and made the simple and logical at the time jump to all black people are annoying. I now know that this was wrong, there are all kinds of people in every race.

There was no one event, but just a general blooming of the concept of aboriginal unpleasantness. At school they are always smoking, wagging, swearing, fighting, bullying, and generally antagonising. Out of school they move onto drunkenness, homelessness, unmitigated filth, crime, and begging. However justified or affirmed by reality, associating aboriginals with these experiences is inherently racist.

But when those geographically separated populations did adapt to their environments, what reason do we have to believe that those adaptations aren't sustantive in ways that matter in modern society?

Blue eyed people are more sensitive to bright lights, for example. What if some human population groups were better at spatial relations? Or had better night vision? Or were impervious to some diseases?

Do these not matter?

No more than the fact that some of us spill our seed and others menstruate. Less, even.

'patriotism' and 'the cold war'; litterally, when i was about four years old.

i don't think it crossed anyone's mind (other then the politicians who were doing so deliberately) that the prevailing arbitrary assumptions they mindlessly echoed were anything of the sort, but they were certainly nothing else. the rest of it grew out of and was tied into and related to that.

=^^=
.../\...

How are patriotism and especially the cold war racism?

'patriotism' and 'the cold war'; litterally, when i was about four years old.

i don't think it crossed anyone's mind (other then the politicians who were doing so deliberately) that the prevailing arbitrary assumptions they mindlessly echoed were anything of the sort, but they were certainly nothing else. the rest of it grew out of and was tied into and related to that.

=^^=
.../\...

I honestly don't think I can remember when I first encountered racism. My parents managed to shelter me from a lot of the ugliness in the world, by making sure I was surrounded with fantastic people during my childhood. I went to a daycare that looked like a UNICEF pamphlet. My public school district was in a suburb that had been founded by Jews and minorities who had been denied housing in the neighboring rich (read: white Christian) suburb.

This actually led me to be kind of an ass when I was around high school age, because I was one of those white kids who is sure that racism doesn't exist any more. I plead ignorance. Where I lived, in my sheltered little corner of the world, there was no racism. That was all I knew. Sure I read the news and history and all that, but racism was something bad that used to happen, or which happened in only a few backwards places nowadays. Wasn't it?

No more than the fact that some of us spill our seed and others menstruate. Less, even.

Well, the significant bit that he's missing is that there are many, many ways we can break people up that are more substantive. That's the point. Race is less meaningful than foot size. And the problem is that because people demonstrate a correllation, like IQ test scores, or something similar, doesn't make it related to race at all. You'd see the same types of correllations by dividing people up by their favorite color. It's a natural biproduct of grouping people and it's virtually meaningless.

I honestly don't think I can remember when I first encountered racism. My parents managed to shelter me from a lot of the ugliness in the world, by making sure I was surrounded with fantastic people during my childhood. I went to a daycare that looked like a UNICEF pamphlet. My public school district was in a suburb that had been founded by Jews and minorities who had been denied housing in the neighboring rich (read: white Christian) suburb.

This actually led me to be kind of an ass when I was around high school age, because I was one of those white kids who is sure that racism doesn't exist any more. I plead ignorance. Where I lived, in my sheltered little corner of the world, there was no racism. That was all I knew. Sure I read the news and history and all that, but racism was something bad that used to happen, or which happened in only a few backwards places nowadays. Wasn't it?

It's okay. You'll stop being an ass one day. I mean, just look at GnI.

But when those geographically separated populations did adapt to their environments, what reason do we have to believe that those adaptations aren't sustantive in ways that matter in modern society?

Blue eyed people are more sensitive to bright lights, for example. What if some human population groups were better at spatial relations? Or had better night vision? Or were impervious to some diseases?

Do these not matter?

Not really, no.

Genetically, there is no substantive difference between the various "races." As we develop technological adaptations to various environmental differences (dark glasses with UV protection, for instance), the so-called differences become less.

While some diseases are more prevalent in some groups than others, I posit that those diseases may have been part of an adaptation, like sickle cell anemia - a disorder which actually helped fight the effects of malaria. It's not needed in areas where malaria doesn't exist, is indeed counterproductive in those areas.

If the human race wasn't able to adapt to it's surroundings, it would die out. The cosmetic differences caused by those adaptations are irrelevant to definitions of "humanness" or notions of "superiority."

When you get down to reality, the differences that are causing the problems are cultural, not physiological; people just want to link culture to physiology because it's a convenient way to catalog people without actually thinking or dealing with relevant facts.

No more than the fact that some of us spill our seed and others menstruate. Less, even.
Rather than just declaring them unimportant, why don't we measure them and find out for sure?

Rather than just declaring them unimportant, why don't we measure them and find out for sure?

Why would we? What is to be gained?

The differences within any 'race' you care to mention, are greater than the differences between any two you might want to suggest.

And that's why it's so much hokum... why it looks so much like the swansong of WASPcentric egocentrism, flailing in despair for some last bastion of white superiority.

It's okay. You'll stop being an ass one day. I mean, just look at GnI.

Hey, I resemble that comment.

Hey, I resemble that comment.
Speaking of "comment"s, i've already been blessed with the opportunity to use the Proverbs quote. Yay!

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0515/4490722_200X150.jpg

My uncle was my first exposure to racism... my lord that man could not stand Asians...

... which I find amusing now since every year he takes his vacations in south East Asia >.>

I don't know what my first exposure to racism was, but the most shocking, to date, was probably a tie between the Pan Aryan Alliance comments earlier in this thread and the words of the Westboro Baptist Church.

People discriminate against others of African descent on many occasions. Now, I know many people of African descent - and this is simply not true. Not at all. I work with Sudanese people and other africans at the school at which I am a student, and they're an absolute pleasure to work with.

What difference does a smattering of genes make to your intellect? Your emotions? Your value to the world?

There is too much racism. It has to stop. Now.

I still hold a fervent belief that all people are created equal, and deserve the same rights. This is a belief that I would kill for.

How noble. :rolleyes:

Hey, I resemble that comment.

Does resembling a comment mean that you are like it? :p

Why would we? What is to be gained?
Knowledge.
The differences within any 'race' you care to mention, are greater than the differences between any two you might want to suggest.
I'm not suggesting anything. I'm asknig that people not assert the presence or absence of differences without bothering to measure them first.

Maybe the differences within the groups will be greater than the differences between groups. Great. Let's find out.

Making decisions without evidence, simply as if the facts were as you would prefer them to be, doesn't serve our interests.

Maybe the differences within the groups will be greater than the differences between groups. Great. Let's find out.


We did.

In this big wide world there is a thing called science. It hasn't been waiting for your approval.

We did.

In this big wide world there is a thing called science. It hasn't been waiting for your approval.

At the headquarters of S.C.I.E.N.C.E.
*ring, ring*
*Scientist answers*
*sounds on the other side of the line*
"Really?"
*more sounds*
"Uh-huh."
*more sounds*
"He finally did? Wow, good. We were getting bored."
*yelling on the other end*
"Um, I meant, we've been cleaning up the labs to get ready for this day. Thank you, sir. We'll get right to work."
*Scientist turns to the lab*
"Llewdor's given us permission to test things we've obviously wanted to test for a long time. It's a go, boys. Let's do this!"

Knowledge.

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm asknig that people not assert the presence or absence of differences without bothering to measure them first.

Maybe the differences within the groups will be greater than the differences between groups. Great. Let's find out.

Making decisions without evidence, simply as if the facts were as you would prefer them to be, doesn't serve our interests.

Dude, just once it would be nice if you'd, you know, look stuff up before you say things that are this provably ignorant of the workings of the sciences about which you speak. You honestly think no one has tested the genetic differences between races? You honestly think no has compared this genetic difference to normal genetic drift within races?

You don't know about it so the jury's still out? Seriously, man. How about this time rather than us spending weeks educating you, you just google BEFORE you start making silly claims.

How noble. :rolleyes:

Willing to, not going to. If I had to kill one to stop them from oppressing an enire race, I'd do it to. And it is noble. Hell, I'd kill to stop someone from oppressing you. His comment does not speak to whether or not he would consider it a good outcome, only how far he is willing to go to protect what is right. I sorry that offends your "sensibilities."

Does resembling a comment mean that you are like it? :p

Umm unless it's atypo and he meant re-assemble!