NationStates Jolt Archive

Linkage (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2228201,00.html)

:eek:

Just... eek. I don't really know what else to say.

Planning permission has already been rejected by one council though so...

From the article:
'Today all they do is binge drink. We will be able to offer them an alternative.'I find this notion amusing.

So? Let them build it if they want, don't like it don't go.They want to waste my tax money on it.

'Wigan council slammed the door in our faces. You mention the C [Christian] word, and people don't want to know,' Jones said.
WAAAAAAAA WAAAAAAAAAA!!!!! We can't spread bullshit that everybody rejected 100 years ago! We have an established Church but Christians are oppressed!!!! WAAAAAAAA WAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

Idiots. I genuinely hope they get smallpox and die.

So? Let them build it if they want, don't like it don't go.

So? Let them build it if they want, don't like it don't go.

....and don't use taxpayer $ to do it.
If so, an alternative philosophy theme park should be put up to keep it "fair and balanced"

WAAAAAAAA WAAAAAAAAAA!!!!! We can't spread bullshit that everybody rejected 100 years ago! We have an established Church but Christians are oppressed!!!! WAAAAAAAA WAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

Idiots. I genuinely hope they get smallpox and die.

I'm wondering whether they really meant "Christian" with the C-word. Could be "Creationism", in which case the reaction would be fully justified.

When am I going to get my own theme park? :(

Nice one Wigan City Council.

/never thought I'd say that...

When am I going to get my own theme park? :(

http://www.funonthenet.in/images/stories/forwards/dubai%20projects/palm%20island.jpg

On a more serious note, I wonder where these people ectually come from. Vardy is am American car salesman, who already runs creationist part privatised schools, at the behest of Education Secretary Ruth Kelly (also a creationist).

When am I going to get my own theme park? :(

You mean to say that NS isn't enough for you, eh?
Cad. :mad:

....and don't use taxpayer $ to do it.
If so, an alternative philosophy theme park should be put up to keep it "fair and balanced"

As long as they use private money I don't see an issue..Tax money on the other should never be used to promote religion or attack it.

I'm wondering whether they really meant "Christian" with the C-word. Could be "Creationism", in which case the reaction would be fully justified.
The article did say they meant Christian, and there are enough people moaning that Christians are oppressed here (you know, because the heathens are building Mosques and we can't call them wogs any more) for me to believe that.

As long as they use private money I don't see an issue..Tax money on the other should never be used to promote religion or attack it.

That's mostly what i was shootin' at, ayup.

As long as they use private money I don't see an issue..Tax money on the other should never be used to promote religion or attack it.Yeah, well, go tell them that:
The trust also says it plans to apply for government grants and European funding to help it realise its dream of turning the television studio into 'an international leader in promoting family-oriented Christian programmes'.They're not satisfied with wasting only British tax-pounds, no, they want my tax-euros as well.

The article did say they meant Christian, and there are enough people moaning that Christians are oppressed here (you know, because the heathens are building Mosques and we can't call them wogs any more) for me to believe that.The article, yes. I'm just wondering where the interpretation came from. From the quotee or the journalist?

From the article:
'Today all they do is binge drink. We will be able to offer them an alternative.'
I find this notion amusing.

"Hey, Joe! Fancy going to the pub?"

"Nah. I only did that 'cause I was bored. Now they have this cool new thing in town: a Creationist theme park!"

"Really? Wow! Let's go there! They may not have beer, but they have Jesus!"

I think the creationists should probably stick to their anti-evolution theme parks rather than branch out into British themed ones.

As long as they use private money I don't see an issue..Tax money on the other should never be used to promote religion or attack it.
They're planning on getting government and EU subsidies.

However, with regards to planning permission, I can't see a council and the party controlling it wanting to be branded the party of creationism. It doesn't sit well with the vast majority of the electorate.

The article, yes. I'm just wondering where the interpretation came from. From the quotee or the journalist?
Ah, I see where you're coming from now. Probably the journalist - anything in square brackets usually is, I think - and my best guess would be that he or she is right. I've heard people say similar stuff before.

That's mostly what i was shootin' at, ayup.

If they use private money whats the problem? Other than it showcasing the C word? I wouldn't care, just like christian TV doesn't bother me...I don't watch religious TV and I wouldn't go to that park...But I wouldn't stop either from happening.

....and don't use taxpayer $ to do it.
If so, an alternative philosophy theme park should be put up to keep it "fair and balanced"

Unless I've missed something in the article, they aren't using tax money.
[Edit: Sorry yes - 'plans to apply for'. Doesn't mean they'll get it but, yes I did indeed miss something.]

Okay, a few planning officers will have to spend their time considering the planning application - big deal. As a side issue, I suspect Wigan City Council rejected it because it would be a shocking eyesore, not because of any genuinely anti-Christian bias.

Frankly, most creationist 'evidence' is so painfully flimsy that going public with their arguments will do their cause more harm than good. If they want to make idiots of themselves to a slightly wider audience, good luck to them.

If they use private money whats the problem? Other than it showcasing the C word? I wouldn't care, just like christian TV doesn't bother me...I don't watch religious TV and I wouldn't go to that park...But I wouldn't stop either from happening.Is it too much too ask for you to read the article or what people have posted?

Unless I've missed something in the article, they aren't using tax money.Did you miss the part where they say they're applying for it? Technically, you're right. They aren't using tax money. Yet.

"Really? Wow! Let's go there! They may not have beer, but they have Jesus!"
You know, before, I was all messed up on drugs.
But since I've found The Lord, now I'm all messed up on The Lord!
:p

Frankly, most creationist 'evidence' is so painfully flimsy that going public with their arguments will do their cause more harm than good. If they want to make idiots of themselves to a slightly wider audience, good luck to them.
The past 7 years + here stateside says people are EXTREMELY SLOW fucking learners in that regard. :mad:

Is it too much too ask for you to read the article or what people have posted?

That comment wasn't directed at you and you took it out of context.

That comment wasn't directed at you and you took it out of context.

Perhaps they were emphasizing that i was mostly agreeing with you. That's not really out of context. I think they were also emphasizing a few other things as well, the part about how this particular group of people intended to use a certain persuasion of funding.

That comment wasn't directed at you and you took it out of context.I had the impression, based on your posting history, that you were carping on about how it was ok as long as they didn't get government or EU grants, which detracts from the point that they want government and EU grants.

I stand corrected.

[Yeah, people spotted my crass mistake in my previous post. I realised what I'd done moments after posting, and edited it.]

The past 7 years + here stateside says people are EXTREMELY SLOW fucking learners in that regard. :mad:

Yeah but, frankly, the US media is far more influenced by Christian dogma than the UK media. Maybe I'm being a bit naive. Still, what I've observed in this country suggests to me that creationist arguments only work on people who are already creationists. And I have first hand experience of dealing with these people, believe me.

I had the impression, based on your posting history, that you were carping on about how it was ok as long as they didn't get government or EU grants, which detracts from the point that they want government and EU grants.

I stand corrected.



They shouldn't get any government money as I said before, they want to build it use their own damned money and don't waste taxpayer money. Do I support them using tax money to build it? NO, but I have said that multiple times already.

Meh, as long as it's privately-funded and doesn't receive any backing from the establishment that might lead to the ideas it illustrates being perceived as true they can build it if they like.

It kind of falls into the same category as my non-objection to Legoland. ;)

They shouldn't get any government money as I said before, they want to build it use their own damned money and don't waste taxpayer dollars. Do I support them using tax bucks to build it? NO, but I have said that multiple times already.Well, they won't be spending dollars...

Well, they won't be spending dollars...Of course not. Who wants dollars anymore?

Well, they won't be spending dollars...

I know that, I am american so dollars is what comes to mind first.

You mean to say that NS isn't enough for you, eh?
Cad. :mad:

In NSG, you are all my playthings, but just imagine the fun I could have with physical as well as mental mischief. :)

Meh, as long as it's privately-funded and doesn't receive any backing from the establishment that might lead to the ideas it illustrates being perceived as true they can build it if they like.

It kind of falls into the same category as my non-objection to Legoland. ;)However, Legoland does not dumbify its visitors.

I like it!

They can have excellent 'relevant' messages going on, like "The devil created the Welsh to test the English, don't be angry with God", etc. etc.

Incidentally, I personally wonder if their alternative to binge drinking comes in pill form, or more as a powder.

However, Legoland does not dumbify its visitors.
Agreed, I got myself a driving license for my Lego Go-Kart Thingy skillz. Now that's what I call not dumbing us down.

In NSG, you are all my playthings, but just imagine the fun I could have with physical as well as mental mischief. :)

*leads revolt of the proletariat playthings against and arms them with soap*

Cleanse! Wash! Sanitize!

:p

Agreed, I got myself a driving license for my Lego Go-Kart Thingy skillz. Now that's what I call not dumbing us down.Did that make you believe the earth to be flat?

Luckily for us it wont be getting any grants.

The EU wont back anything remotly religious and ever since the O2 the Government stopped supporting rubbish theme parks

Did that make you believe the earth to be flat?
Nope. Just recognised my awesome driving skillz.

"Hey, Joe! Fancy going to the pub?"

"Nah. I only did that 'cause I was bored. Now they have this cool new thing in town: a Creationist theme park!"

"Really? Wow! Let's go there! They may not have beer, but they have Jesus!"

Class!!! PSML.

If they use private money whats the problem?

None, if they use private money I'd be all for this going ahead. Purely as an experiment to see just how badly they do of course.

Nope. Just recognised my awesome driving skillz.I got mine chasing after this other kid the whole time.

Linkage (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2228201,00.html)

:eek:

Just... eek. I don't really know what else to say.

Planning permission has already been rejected by one council though so...

No. Please, no.

....and don't use taxpayer £ to do it.


Fixed

When am I going to get my own theme park? :(

You ARE your own theme park!

:D

*leads revolt of the proletariat playthings against and arms them with soap*

Cleanse! Wash! Sanitize!

:p

You cannot deny the inner urge for mud. Sooner or later, the mud always wins. *nod*

You cannot deny the inner urge for mud. Sooner or later, the mud always wins. *nod*

Yin and Yang my dear Goofball. Yin and Yang.

You are the Goofball. I am the anti-Goofball.

You cannot deny the inner urge for mud. Sooner or later, the mud always wins. *nod*Well, according to some tales, humans are made of dirt, um, mud. No wonder.

So? Let them build it if they want, don't like it don't go.

I don't support mainstream idiocy and intollerance for the truth.

Just like all Creationists, this is their attempt to bury theirs, (and attept to bury other's) heads, further into Earth's soil.

It'll never work. Religion is an awkward hobby in the U.K.

Hay guys, maybe you could make some profit from this contest (http://www.drdino.com/articles.php?spec=67?pg=products&specific=joemoqr4), and maybe you could make a theme park from the money.

Easier said than done,... building theme parks that is.

Will Spielberg make a movie about it? He could then just combine Jurassic Park with Schindler's List...

I got mine chasing after this other kid the whole time.
That's how I got my real driving license.

Creationism will solve teen drinking, eh? Interesting. Perhaps transubstantiation will eliminate world debt.

:headbang: <- My official (OOC) response
:D <- My official (IC) response

:headbang: <- My official (OOC) response
:D <- My official (IC) response

This is an OOC board, so it's assumed that everything you say is OOC. In fact, it'd be rather odd if you said anything IC.

Well whatever happens it's got to be better than Mr Blobby Land.

Yin and Yang my dear Goofball. Yin and Yang.

You are the Goofball. I am the anti-Goofball.

SO if we touch, we will annihilate eachother? :eek:

Yin and Yang my dear Goofball. Yin and Yang.

You are the Goofball. I am the anti-Goofball.

SO if we touch, we will annihilate eachother? :eek:

No touching you two :mad:

I think the idea i weak and boring, they could have made so many different versions of a theme park.

My one would be of philosophy, you could have a freewill section, and a determinism section and just to confuse them a compatability section, then a god exists/god doesn't exist section, then a the world is flat/the world is round section.
It could go on forever i'd definately go to that, christian theme park, oh no lets be nice to the minority religious groups, okay build a theme park privately funded because that won't be trashed in 3 weeks by people who are anti-religion (Britain being the most sectarian country in the world ie the most people who don't believe in god), also it's just a joke i can put up with the christian stuff, but the 7 day adventists take it a bit too far.

I wonder what an economy theme park would be like? would it have lots of statistics in it?
:gundge::gundge::gundge::gundge::gundge::gundge::gundge::gundge::gundge::gundge:, bad christians go back to America, "in corporate America, freedom enjoys you!"

Hay guys, maybe you could make some profit from this contest (http://www.drdino.com/articles.php?spec=67?pg=products&specific=joemoqr4), and maybe you could make a theme park from the money.

Easier said than done,... building theme parks that is.

It's unwinnable, as anyone with the slightest knowledge of science and basic literacy can determine. Plus, Hovind doesn't even have the money.

come on children, let's take a ride on the roller coaster of lies!

come on children, let's take a ride on the roller coaster of lies!

IT'S A TRAP!

... then again if modern theme parks rides relies on say,... the principles of gravity and such,... wouldn't that make this theme-park... GOD POWERED?

IT'S A TRAP!

... then again if modern theme parks rides relies on say,... the principles of gravity and such,... wouldn't that make this theme-park... GOD POWERED?

PHYSICS?! THIS! IS! JESUSLAND!!!!!!

I like it!

They can have excellent 'relevant' messages going on, like "The devil created the Welsh to test the English, don't be angry with God", etc. etc.

Incidentally, I personally wonder if their alternative to binge drinking comes in pill form, or more as a powder.
Awesome. Hilarious!

Anyways, I swear this whole Creationism vs Evolution thingy is new. Or perhaps I've just been ignoring it for years?

I really hope that this doesn't get the go-ahead, or that it fails miserably if it does get the go ahead. People really shouldn't be making theme parks about this sort of thing. It's as bad as that Swiss guy who was planning on making a theme park showcasing the variety of ways aliens have influenced mankind throughout the years.

I really hope that this doesn’t get the go-ahead, or that it fails miserably if it does get the go ahead. People really shouldn’t be making theme parks about this sort of thing. It’s as bad as that Swiss guy who was planning on making a theme park showcasing the variety of ways aliens have influenced mankind throughout the years.
Luckily, this isn’t Bible Belt USA we’re talking about, so even if the theme park gets the go-ahead with taxpayer’s money (something I doubt will happen), I don’t think we’ll see many kids forsaking LIDL’s vodka for an episode of Jesus & His Dinosaur Pals.

Luckily, this isn’t Bible Belt USA we’re talking about, so even if the theme park gets the go-ahead with taxpayer’s money (something I doubt will happen), I don’t think we’ll see many kids forsaking LIDL’s vodka for an episode of Jesus & His Dinosaur Pals.
Blair would probably have given it the go-ahead. I do love who he was nervous about admitting his level of faith for fear of being labelled "a nutter".

But then I do dislike the man as he was a Tory in disguise.

Hay guys, maybe you could make some profit from this contest (http://www.drdino.com/articles.php?spec=67?pg=products&specific=joemoqr4), and maybe you could make a theme park from the money.

Easier said than done,... building theme parks that is.

Someone should tell that guy the difference between Abiogenesis and Evolution.

Cause he ain't talking about evolution.

Blair would probably have given it the go-ahead.
He did push through faith schools.

He did push through faith schools.
Yep, and we can all thank him that a proportion of our nation's kids will grow up believing in that dross. That, and the rest of them won't know how to read, as all the other schools are going to hell.

Damned traitors, attempting to undermine British scientific advancement!

Damned traitors, attempting to undermine British scientific advancement!
I wonder how true that actually is? The sciences are on decline in this country, especially at university level (the uni I go to recently closed its Physics department) and the promotion of such crap could start factoring against the sciences, reducing interest in it even more.

He did push through faith schools.

And allowed the Emmanuel Schools Foundation to use taxpayers money to poison science.

I wonder how true that actually is? The sciences are on decline in this country, especially at university level (the uni I go to recently closed its Physics department) and the promotion of such crap could start factoring against the sciences, reducing interest in it even more.

There seems to be plenty of science. Just not proper science, but pseudo-science.

You can even get a BSc in Homeopathy.


It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

From the article:
I find this notion amusing.

An alternative in the form of the most boring, dull, uninspired place on earth - Creationist Land! Where there are no rides or cotton candy machines.

Actually, what is really amusing is how they are bitching about violence on TV after creating a theme park where people go to watch a bloody Jesus haul a cross down the street.

An alternative in the form of the most boring, dull, uninspired place on earth - Creationist Land! Where there are no rides or cotton candy machines....and the male staff discuss scripture instead of girls like healthy boys their age.

There seems to be plenty of science. Just not proper science, but pseudo-science.

You can even get a BSc in Homeopathy.


It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.
Dear God. I knew you could get degrees in stuff like surfing and David Beckham, but I didn't know the British education system had sunk to that low. I think my faith in the country has just suffered a severe knock.

I don't support mainstream idiocy and intollerance for the truth.

Just like all Creationists, this is their attempt to bury theirs, (and attept to bury other's) heads, further into Earth's soil.

If you don't support idiocy you hate yourself? Your post is intolerant and hateful, just because YOU don't agree with it doesn't make it wrong and give you the right the violate others peoples rights and and indoctrinate people into your line of view. You are what you hate.

If you don't support idiocy you hate yourself? Your post is intolerant and hateful, just because YOU don't agree with it doesn't make it wrong and give you the right the violate others peoples rights and and indoctrinate people into your line of view. You are what you hate.

Hardly. There is a rational reason for hating creationism: Having it presented as science would easily kill off millions of humans.

WOW! I just went thru some posts in this thread...And the bigotry in this thread is almost too much to handle! Such religious intolerance and blind hate is not only scary but brings terrible visions of Hitler and Nazi Germany to mind. I thought the Left was supposed to be open minded and tolerant, not closed minded and hateful bigots.

WOW! I just went thru some posts in this thread...And the bigotry in this thread is almost too much to handle! Such religious intolerance and blind hate is not only scary but brings terrible visions of Hitler and Nazi Germany to mind. I thought the Left was supposed to be open minded and tolerant, not closed minded and hateful bigots.

As a student of chemistry, creationism is nothing but bullshit trying to present itself as science.

Hence, there is every reason to hate it.

Goodnight.

Hardly. There is a rational reason for hating creationism: Having it presented as science would easily kill off millions of humans.

Saying god created humans would kill millions of people? Since when?

As a student of chemistry, creationism is nothing but bullshit trying to present itself as science.

Hence, there is every reason to hate it.

Goodnight.



As a tolerant humanbeing it is just another way to look at humans past and nobody should be hated or attacked over it.


Goodnight!

As a tolerant humanbeing it is just another way to look at humans past and nobody should be hated or attacked over it.

It is the irrational way to look at it. If you wish to impede scientific progress, you are wishing humanity to miss out on the advances it brings. Thus, you are wishing great harm upon us all.

It is the irrational way to look at it. If you wish to impede scientific progress, you are wishing humanity to miss out on the advances it brings. Thus, you are wishing great harm upon us all.


So now creationism impedes progress? :rolleyes: I'm not getting any intelligent answers out of you people, just blind hate. To the next person who replies, back up your shit or don't bother.

There is no scientific basis for creationism. Only bullshit. Ergo, attempts to present creationism to children as a scientifically grounded theory are immoral and corrupt. We allow it and a section of our society grows up ignorant and deluded. This is bad, yes?

Not that difficult, hmm?

Hopefully the morons will bankrupt themselves; who's going to show up?

So now creationism impedes progress? :rolleyes: I'm not getting any intelligent answers out of you people, just blind hate. To the next person who replies, back up your shit or don't bother.

The only thing I seem to get out of you is blind defense for Creationism. 'Blind hate'? Where? I want a list of 3/4 of people here who have been going "OMG CREATIONISM SUCKS11!!"

I'm seeing loads of intelligent observation on the phenomina that is Creationism. Because that's the first step in the Scientific Meathod. Observation. And from what I, and others observe about Creationism, is that it creates people who intollerantly deny anything about Evolution, and causes people to take the bible as a work of non-fiction.

For future referance to these people. Look up the Youtuber. VenomFangX.

There is no scientific basis for creationism. Only bullshit. Ergo, attempts to present creationism to children as a scientifically grounded theory are immoral and corrupt. We allow it and a section of our society grows up ignorant and deluded. This is bad, yes?

Not that difficult, hmm?

Hopefully the morons will bankrupt themselves; who's going to show up?



Creationism was never science, even the pope said that. And yes, anybody who is not athiest like you is ignorant. :rolleyes: All I am getting out of you people is blind hate and ignorance, as of yet none of you has backed your shit up with anything. Fear of religion you guys seem to have, reminds me of the salem witch trials, hopefully you'll overcome your ignorance and learn to respect others views.

Creationism was never science, even the pope said that. And yes, anybody who is not athiest like you is ignorant. :rolleyes: All I am getting out of you people is blind hate and ignorance, as of yet none of you has backed your shit up with anything. Fear of religion you guys seem to have, reminds me of the salem witch trials, hopefully you'll overcome your ignorance and learn to respect others views.
You're getting repetitive. The Pope isn't a creationist. And I'm not an atheist.

Try again, son.

The only thing I seem to get out of you is blind defense for Creationism. 'Blind hate'? Where? I want a list of 3/4 of people here who have been going "OMG CREATIONISM SUCKS11!!"

I'm seeing loads of intelligent observation on the phenomina that is Creationism. Because that's the first step in the Scientific Meathod. Observation. And from what I, and others observe about Creationism, is that it creates people who intollerantly deny anything about Evolution, and causes people to take the bible as a work of non-fiction.

For future referance to these people. Look up the Youtuber. VenomFangX.

:rolleyes:


Thanks for the open minded and well reasoned post....:rolleyes: I keep asking for you people to back your shit up and all I get is this? More blind hate? Must be annoying for you to have to back your hate up with something reasonable and get caught with your pants down, must be why you got so angry.

You're getting repetitive. The Pope isn't a creationist. And I'm not an atheist.

Try again, son.



No I am taking you guys to task on your hate, I am demanding intelligent reasons behind it and getting nothing. And if you are not a an atheist why do you hate religion so much?


Try again son.

So now creationism impedes progress?
Yes, it is in opposition to the scientific method.

:rolleyes:
Not a convincing rebuttal.

I'm not getting any intelligent answers out of you people, just blind hate.
You are one who is blind. You are wilfully refusing to see reason.

To the next person who replies, back up your shit or don't bother.
And angry too, it seems.

Yes, it is in opposition to the scientific method.

It's not science kid.


Not a convincing rebuttal.

That wasn't a rebuttal


You are one who is blind. You are wilfully refusing to see reason.

Nice attack, I am asking for reason and getting nothing.


And angry too, it seems.

Just annoyed you people have made all these claims about creationism killing people and not backing it up.


Ok, you guys got nothing. I see your hate is unfounded. I was never for creationism, but thanks to you guys I am more tolerant to it than ever before.

No I am taking you guys to task on your hate, I am demanding intelligent reasons behind it and getting nothing. And if you are not a an atheist why do you hate religion so much?


Try again son.
I don't hate religion or creationism. I'm ambivalent about the former and scorn the latter. There's no hate here, my dear, I'm just passing time.

What exactly are you advocating? If it's schools given the right to choose creationism as a valid theory to teach their pupils, then I oppose you because you advocate the wilful subordination of young people to lies and delusion. If it's the right of private entities to take to the hills and try and teach their gospel to those who would visit them, then fine. I'm just pointing out that they will fail miserably, as our fortunately educated adult populace will largely laugh them off.

It's not science
Correct.

Just annoyed you people have made all these claims about creationism killing people and not backing it up.
Well, not killing exactly. But our ability to save lives comes from scientific progress, and improving this ability in the future will come from further scientific progress. Evolutionary biology is an essential part of our scientific model. Replacing it with something unscientific would sabotage that model; making it less useful. Without an effective model, we lose our ability to develop new ways to reduce death.

Ok, you guys got nothing. I see your hate is unfounded. I was never for creationism, but thanks to you guys I am more tolerant to it than ever before.
Accusing people you disagree with of 'hate' is hardly the way to present yourself as a moderate.

So now creationism impedes progress?
Yes, it does. It's not science. It directly contradicts practically every branch of science in existence. If it rises, science falls, and the world will descend into hell.

I was never for creationism, but thanks to you guys I am more tolerant to it than ever before.

I'm glad to see you base your support of ideas, etc on the 'Na Na Na Na Naaaaaaaaa' method

Yes, it does. It's not science. It directly contradicts practically every branch of science in existence. If it rises, science falls, and the world will descend into hell.

There is no way any post like that would have been intended to be taken seriously.

Oh, by the way. Creationism is actually directly responsible for at least one person's death. This kid's. (http://www.curedisease.com/Perspectives/vol_2_1990/BabyFae.html)

I'm glad to see you base your support of ideas, etc on the 'Na Na Na Na Naaaaaaaaa' method

Nice to know you have problem reading english. :rolleyes: Didn't know tolerating someones views mean I support them. :rolleyes: Classic.


Remember if you tolerate somebodies views that means you support them. Just classic. :rolleyes:

Nice to know you have problem reading english. :rolleyes: Didn't know tolerating someones views mean I support them. :rolleyes: Classic.


Apologies

Switch the words and read it again

As a tolerant humanbeing it is just another way to look at humans past and nobody should be hated or attacked over it.

Goodnight!

The hatred seems to be from the Christians. Why else to they continuously try to force their way into the science room? They declare their philosophy is a theory and scream oppression when people demand them to prove it. If they offer something and get counter arguments it quickly degenerates into "you just hate Christians."

It's just stuns me the "little man" complex many Christians have. They are the dominate religion in the US and some act like it's Roman times again.

Nice to know you have problem reading english. :rolleyes: Didn't know tolerating someones views mean I support them. :rolleyes: Classic.


Remember if you tolerate somebodies views that means you support them. Just classic. :rolleyes:
Your still not making any kind of reasoned point.

Sod it. You're either a troll or a fool; either way, you're not worth the effort. Ta-ra.

- Dashanzi

Your still not making any kind of reasoned point.

Sod it. You're either a troll or a fool; either way, you're not worth the effort. Ta-ra.

- Dashanzi

Hey! Its a puppet! Who's puppet are you? Sod it, you're just a troll.

http://freeforum.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/teach_both_theories.png
Why stop with creationism?

The hatred seems to be from the Christians. Why else to they continuously try to force their way into the science room? They declare their philosophy is a theory and scream oppression when people demand them to prove it. If they offer something and get counter arguments it quickly degenerates into "you just hate Christians."

It's just stuns me the "little man" complex many Christians have. They are the dominate religion in the US and some act like it's Roman times again.

Well christanity is an umbrella term most of the time, the US is mostly protestant. I am not asking them to prove it, you can't really prove a matter of faith, I am asking you guys to prove why it would kill millions and impede advancements in science.

It's not science kid.What would it be good for, otherwise?

I just wonder what this theme park will have. Photos sessions with John the Baptist and his severed head. Get the kiddies swallowed by the whale. Climb the Tower of Babel where you get free language lessons. Stay for 6 days and 6 nights, and on the seventh day get a discount. Adam And Eve walking around in the starkers. Some character dressed up as God, checking the lights, looking and saying "I saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness."

What would it be good for, otherwise?

Just a matter of faith on how some choose to explain how earth and humans got here. Doesn't harm you if some choose to believe it, but attacking them does cause them harm.

Just a matter of faith on how some choose to explain how earth and humans got here. Doesn't harm you if some choose to believe it, but attacking them does cause them harm.True. Them trying to convince others that its the right way causes harm though.

Well christanity is an umbrella term most of the time, the US is mostly protestant. I am not asking them to prove it, you can't really prove a matter of faith, I am asking you guys to prove why it would kill millions and impede advancements in science.

Simple. Evolutionary theory would be downgraded simply because it would violate one's faith.

There are many scientists that can separate the two. Even teachers. However, there are many that can not and that would be a problem. Especially in the areas of biology and physical anthropology. For example, the attempts to dismiss dating methods. The fossil record. I still have people asking where is the one fossil that shows we are related to the apes or it's bogus because there isn't a clear record showing the progress through time.

It's interesting they demand fact for science and yet don't demand fact for questions about God(s).

Creationism/ID belongs in a comparative religions class and not the science classroom.

True. Them trying to convince others that its the right way causes harm though.


Them telling you about it causes no harm, thats not forcing you to believe anything, just telling you in hopes you agree. Since you seem calmer, mind telling me how creationism would kill millions of people and impede advancement? I have yet to get a clear answer to this easy question.

SO if we touch, we will annihilate eachother? :eek:

Chaos and Order. We exist in the same realm, but can never meet, for such will negate our existence.

:p

Simple. Evolutionary theory would be downgraded simply because it would violate one's faith.

There are many scientists that can separate the two. Even teachers. However, there are many that can not and that would be a problem. Especially in the areas of biology and physical anthropology. For example, the attempts to dismiss dating methods. The fossil record. I still have people asking where is the one fossil that shows we are related to the apes or it's bogus because there isn't a clear record showing the progress through time.

It's interesting they demand fact for science and yet don't demand fact for questions about God(s).

Creationism/ID belongs in a comparative religions class and not the science classroom.

Thank you for answering my question. If they can keep the 2 seperate would you mind so much?

Thank you for answering my question. If they can keep the 2 seperate would you mind so much?

First, how would they keep the 2 separate? It's obvious that most people would pick the easiest to remember, and fossil records, carbon dating and genetic alterations throughout time are a lot harder to keep in mind than the cureall of "goddidit"

Come to Creation Land! Where you can ride the amazing adventure coaster "In seven days" and listen to us drabble on about BS!

Its almost enough to make me binge drink.

First, how would they keep the 2 separate? It's obvious that most people would pick the easiest to remember, and fossil records, carbon dating and genetic alterations throughout time are a lot harder to keep in mind than the cureall of "goddidit"

Ask The Black Forrest about that.

Linkage (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2228201,00.html)

:eek:

Just... eek. I don't really know what else to say.

Planning permission has already been rejected by one council though so...

oh for fuck's sake... :headbang::headbang:



'The church in this country is in crisis and many church leaders living in Australia, America and Canada have openly proclaimed that God has left the church in England,'

yes, and we like it that way. fuck off.

Them telling you about it causes no harm
Them telling ME about it does nothing but irritate. But they want to impose it on the children, which contributes to the continuing dumbing-down of society. There are fewer and fewer scientists and engineers every year; we have been covering up for the deficiency by importing bright students from overseas, but that is stopping also.

In NSG, you are all my playthings, but just imagine the fun I could have with physical as well as mental mischief. :)
You've given pix on occasion that have elicited extreme physical repulsion from me, which would quantify your "physical mischief" idea.

Thank you for answering my question. If they can keep the 2 seperate would you mind so much?

Problem is there will be always some that won't.

Add in the problems of the parents. You may teacher who can then you have a vocal minority of parents etc that would harass the teacher and or the school to teach the correct "science" of creationism.

First, how would they keep the 2 separate? It's obvious that most people would pick the easiest to remember, and fossil records, carbon dating and genetic alterations throughout time are a lot harder to keep in mind than the cureall of "goddidit"

There are many that do. For example, they reason that God created the Big bang and evolution is the mechanism to why we are.

You are correct in that students would take the easiest route if given the chance......

There are many that do. For example, they reason that God created the Big bang and evolution is the mechanism to why we are.

You are correct in that students would take the easiest route if given the chance......

Which would argue against putting the two together as viable subjects no? Making the argument of "let the student decide" actually a thinly veiled slippery slope yes?

Just a matter of faith on how some choose to explain how earth and humans got here. Doesn't harm you if some choose to believe it, but attacking them does cause them harm.

That's intelligent design, it trys to warp Evolution into the point where it's all about god.

Creationism is just straight up bullshit proven wrong. (mostly)

So someone in Britain is dead set on opening up a real life Flandersland. This should be a comedy gold mine.

Oh, by the way. Creationism is actually directly responsible for at least one person's death. This kid's. (http://www.curedisease.com/Perspectives/vol_2_1990/BabyFae.html)

I'd like a response.

So someone in Britain is dead set on opening up a real life Flandersland. This should be a comedy gold mine.

If you have any common/ordinary items upon which Mary has appeared, send 'em in for a tax write-off, and they'll be on display, so the masses can have their faith confirmed!

They want to waste my tax money on it.

If it's for private profit, it should be built with private funds. Otherwise, the government should be the owner of the place and get all the profits from it.

Something tells me these people are just out to make a quick buck at taxpayer expense.

Something tells me these people are just out to make a quick buck at taxpayer expense.
Lawdy, no! Say t'ain't so! A god-fearin' christian lookin' to take in some suckas!

Which would argue against putting the two together as viable subjects no? Making the argument of "let the student decide" actually a thinly veiled slippery slope yes?

Oh I am not suggesting letting the student decide. All I am saying there are many that make the separation.

I would not trust it in the class room as they would not be happy to simply get into the classroom. They would most like go about "correcting" the mistakes of the past.

I admit I seriously lold when I saw a news article about one of these parks in the US, the whole having dinosaurs is perplexing though, it kinda shows the holes in creationism and the Bible as a whole, I mean seriously were Roman Legionnaires riding around on the backs of Velociraptors back in those days?

I mean seriously were Roman Legionnaires riding around on the backs of Velociraptors back in those days?

They were THAT badass.
They would have us think, anyway. Never mind Caligula.
*imagines velociraptors in Caligula*

They were THAT badass.
They would have us think, anyway. Never mind Caligula.
*imagines velociraptors in Caligula*

* Caligula nominates his velociraptor as Senator *

* Caligula nominates his velociraptor as Senator *

Did i mention today that i like you? I like you. :)

Did i mention today that i like you? I like you. :)

Oh yah, wait till tomorrow.:p

Oh yah, wait till tomorrow.:p

Good! Keep up the good work!

Saying god created humans would kill millions of people? Since when?

It would kill millions of people through starvation, since forever.

When the theory of evolution was developed and applied, genetics were discovered. These were used to further increase crop production. The result is that nations such as China and India don't have as massive starvation as they otherwise would have.

Creationism does not allow change. Therefore, it would not have allowed the innovation that brought the green revolution. Therefore, it would have been implicit in starving millions upon millions.

Edit: Look up "Green Revolution". You've got the internetz!

Them telling you about it causes no harm, thats not forcing you to believe anything, just telling you in hopes you agree. Since you seem calmer, mind telling me how creationism would kill millions of people and impede advancement? I have yet to get a clear answer to this easy question.The kill millions of people is probably an exaggerated claim that creationists that reject evolution will fail to realize that bacteria and virae become more resistant to our means of killing them via natural selection, and thus you'll have millions of otherwise easily preventable deaths.
That an unscientific theory being pushed into science as is currently happening will impede advancement should be obvious.

The kill millions of people is probably an exaggerated claim that creationists that reject evolution will fail to realize that bacteria and virae become more resistant to our means of killing them via natural selection, and thus you'll have millions of otherwise easily preventable deaths.
That an unscientific theory being pushed into science as is currently happening will impede advancement should be obvious.

There are also numerous other "theories" also waiting in the wings that creationism might usher centre-stage in its errdication of science.

Bechamp's pleomorphic theory is one that springs to mind. But that is probably because of something I read last night.

The kill millions of people is probably an exaggerated claim that creationists that reject evolution will fail to realize that bacteria and virae become more resistant to our means of killing them via natural selection, and thus you'll have millions of otherwise easily preventable deaths.
That an unscientific theory being pushed into science as is currently happening will impede advancement should be obvious.

That is obviously nothing more than a scare tactic used by anti-religious zealots to scare people into hating religion most of all christians with no valid reason. Of course creationism is that man was created by the hands of god and did not evolve from monkies has nothing to do anything beyond that and would not effect science at all. That is obvious and most scientists can seperate the two.

Creationism is not science, that is obvious and I have yet to see a valid evidence that scare tactic has a basis in reality.

I admit I seriously lold when I saw a news article about one of these parks in the US, the whole having dinosaurs is perplexing though, it kinda shows the holes in creationism and the Bible as a whole, I mean seriously were Roman Legionnaires riding around on the backs of Velociraptors back in those days?Not the Romans, fool:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a205/ulteriormotives/Desktop20BG2022064020x20480.jpg

That is obviously nothing more than a scare tactic used by anti-religious zealots to scare people into hating religion most of all christians with no valid reason. Of course creationism is that man was created by the hands of god and did not evolve from monkies has nothing to do anything beyond that and would not effect science at all. That is obvious and most scientists can seperate the two.

Creationism is not science, that is obvious and I have yet to see a valid evidence that scare tactic has a basis in reality.What rock are you living under?

Exhibit A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_science)
Exhibit B (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation-evolution_controversy)

That is obviously nothing more than a scare tactic used by anti-religious zealots to scare people into hating religion most of all christians with no valid reason. Of course creationism is that man was created by the hands of god and did not evolve from monkies has nothing to do anything beyond that and would not effect science at all. That is obvious and most scientists can seperate the two.

"Purposefully ignoring important aspects of a scientific theory in no way effects the theory and everything derived from it at all"

Right. I will next start to purposefully ignore that walls are hard, so they cannot hurt when I bang my head against them.

Creationism is not science, that is obvious and I have yet to see a valid evidence that scare tactic has a basis in reality.

You believe evolution theory states humans evolved from monkeys. There is your evidence.

That is obviously nothing more than a scare tactic used by anti-religious zealots to scare people into hating religion most of all christians with no valid reason. Of course creationism is that man was created by the hands of god and did not evolve from monkies has nothing to do anything beyond that and would not effect science at all. That is obvious and most scientists can seperate the two.


Do you not think that is a rather naive view?

To believe there can be no adverse effects from teaching children non-science in place of science? Do you believe there is no intentional clouding of the waters on the part of the creationists? Do you think science will not be effected due to the lack of basic sciectific literacy in school aged children? Will this not have a knock effect for futher education? (In fact I think it already has. I'll need to find the article first though)

Scientists may be able to seperate the two, but unfortunately school age children (and to some extent the parents of school age children) probably can't.

PS. Evolution doesn't say we evolved from monkeys

Creationism is not science, that is obvious and I have yet to see a valid evidence that scare tactic has a basis in reality.

You think that concern over the decline in educational standards is a scare tactic with no basis in reality? :confused:

That is obviously nothing more than a scare tactic used by anti-religious zealots to scare people into hating religion most of all christians with no valid reason. Of course creationism is that man was created by the hands of god and did not evolve from monkies has nothing to do anything beyond that and would not effect science at all. That is obvious and most scientists can seperate the two.

Creationism is not science, that is obvious and I have yet to see a valid evidence that scare tactic has a basis in reality.

Assuming that man didn't evolve from apes and is therefore unrelated to anything else in nature could indeed result in serious medical problems.
Imagine a Christian vehemently refusing his/her child having an organ transplant from, say, a pig...

When am I going to get my own theme park? :(

When Neu Leonstein overtakes Lachlan Murdoch as the richest person in the world, and decides to honour those who influenced him in his youth.

When Neu Leonstein overtakes Lachlan Murdoch as the richest person in the world, and decides to honour those who influenced him in his youth.He's too soft hearted to become rich. :p

Assuming that man didn't evolve from apes and is therefore unrelated to anything else in nature could indeed result in serious medical problems.
Imagine a Christian vehemently refusing his/her child having an organ transplant from, say, a pig...


Not a good example...A transplant from a pig?

Not a good example...A transplant from a pig?

Those are done quite often.

Not a good example...A transplant from a pig?

Yes, A transplant from a pig! (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/424956.stm)

What rock are you living under?

Exhibit A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_science)
Exhibit B (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation-evolution_controversy)


Did I deny it was there? NO! So why are you trying to prove the exisitance of something I never denied? Nice job misunderstanding what I meant, next time ask what people mean instead of assuming and flambaiting.

Did I deny it was there? NO! So why are you trying to prove the exisitance of something I never denied? Nice job misunderstanding what I meant, next time ask what people mean instead of assuming and flambaiting.

What do you mean then ? You cannot just pick and choose the parts of a sientific theory you like and dismiss the rest. A scientific theory is coherent.

Not a good example...A transplant from a pig?

One of the most common non-human transplants, I believe.

What do you mean then ? You cannot just pick and choose the parts of a sientific theory you like and dismiss the rest. A scientific theory is coherent.

That might just be the problem right there ;)

What do you mean then ? You cannot just pick and choose the parts of a sientific theory you like and dismiss the rest. A scientific theory is coherent.


Yes you can, scientists do it all the time. I am talking about creationism on a non-scientific level which I have stated before hand. There is a belief that creationism on any level would impede science and kill which I have stated before that it won't as creationism is NOT science. I have yet to see proof that creationism on a non-scientific level would impede anything.

That might just be the problem right there ;)


Is that why you don't get it? :rolleyes: Flambait always works for people like you huh? And FYI, science is always picked apart....

Yes, A transplant from a pig! (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/424956.stm)



Yuck. I'd rather wait for a human organ.

Yes you can, scientists do it all the time. I am talking about creationism on a non-scientific level which I have stated before hand. There is a belief that creationism on any level would impede science and kill which I have stated before that it won't as creationism is NOT science. I have yet to see proof that creationism on a non-scientific level would impede anything.

On what level would you place creationsim then?
If it's not valid in any scientific way, and if in fact you aknowledge it to be invalid scienticifally, why bother with it in the first place? Why waste money and time trying to teach the public about it?

Absolutely mind-blowing.

I want to move to Wigan so that my council tax is paid to them in reward for their decision.

Sadly, I reckon somewhere in the north-east - Darlington, maybe? - will bite.

Yuck. I'd rather wait for a human organ.

I gather that when waiting for a heart transplant, the options really aren't that many. But feel free to die while waiting...

Do you not think that is a rather naive view?

To believe there can be no adverse effects from teaching children non-science in place of science? Do you believe there is no intentional clouding of the waters on the part of the creationists? Do you think science will not be effected due to the lack of basic sciectific literacy in school aged children? Will this not have a knock effect for futher education? (In fact I think it already has. I'll need to find the article first though)

Scientists may be able to seperate the two, but unfortunately school age children (and to some extent the parents of school age children) probably can't.

Ever heard of teaching them to seperate the two? Happens you know.

Is that why you don't get it? :rolleyes: Flambait always works for people like you huh? And FYI, science is always picked apart....

FYI, science only works when it is coherent. You can study different aspects of a scientific field, but geology can't be explained without meteorology, meteorology can't be studied without taking biology into account, biology doesn't work without evolution, etc.
If one part isn't coherent, whatever part of the model you're looking at becomes moot.

Ever heard of teaching them to seperate the two? Happens you know.

What, by saying one is supported by evidence, makes valid predictions and works as a scientific model, the other one is a 4000 year old story?
That doesn't justify a theme park, really.

Did I deny it was there? NO! You denied you'd seen evidence that the "scare tactic by anti-religious zealots" had a basis in reality. There's a good chance you've been living in isolation if you claim that you've never heard of Kitzmiller et al. vs. Dover. Why anyone that's heard of Kitzmiller vs. Dover would be so dense as to deny the existence of evidence for a strong Creationist movement that actually does try to invade the sphere of scientific reasoning, is beyond me.
So why are you trying to prove the exisitance of something I never denied? Nice job misunderstanding what I meant, next time ask what people mean instead of assuming and flambaiting.Because you claimed you'd never seen it. If you're discovering that people take your wording at face value, you should try rewording your statements.

Yes you can, scientists do it all the time. I am talking about creationism on a non-scientific level which I have stated before hand. There is a belief that creationism on any level would impede science and kill which I have stated before that it won't as creationism is NOT science. I have yet to see proof that creationism on a non-scientific level would impede anything.That's rather irrelevant though, since creationism does operate on a "scientific" level.

That's rather irrelevant though, since creationism does operate on a "scientific" level.

Did you used to post as Bruarong?

You denied you'd seen evidence that the "scare tactic by anti-religious zealots" had a basis in reality. There's a good chance you've been living in isolation if you claim that you've never heard of Kitzmiller et al. vs. Dover. Why anyone that's heard of Kitzmiller vs. Dover would be so dense as to deny the existence of evidence for a strong Creationist movement that actually does try to invade the sphere of scientific reasoning, is beyond me.
Because you claimed you'd never seen it. If you're discovering that people take your wording at face value, you should try rewording your statements.

Sigh.. Why bother with you. Go on ahead with whatever you were doing. It's obvious no matter what I say you will just twist it to suit whatever your goal is.

And 11 people is hardly a strong movement, which you are making out to be bigger than it is. Whatever, go on ahead with your baseless hate.

That's rather irrelevant though, since creationism does operate on a "scientific" level.

Tell that to the people who don't see it that way or the scientists who seperate the two.

Sigh.. Why bother with you. Go on ahead with whatever you were doing. It's obvious no matter what I say you will just twist it to suit whatever your goal is.

And 11 people is hardly a strong movement, which you are making out to be bigger than it is. Whatever, go on ahead with your baseless hate.Either you're underestimating the influence and ranks of the ID and Creationist movements, or you're trying to whitewash creationism.

Tell that to the people who don't see it that way or the scientists who seperate the two.They never listen, though.

Did you used to post as Bruarong?
Er... no?

Ever heard of teaching them to seperate the two? Happens you know.



Teaching them proper science would do that. But for some reason that doesn't please "teach the controversy" crowd.

But that's evading the issue somewhat.

Especially since it so very apparent that so many people cannot differentiate the two and are pushing for children to not be trained so that they can differentiate the two.

They never win

How do you mean?

Either you're underestimating the influence and ranks of the ID and Creationist movements, or you're trying to whitewash creationism.

I am not, but you are making them out to be bigger than they are. They never win so why care? Also why do you insist on assuming I am talking about this on a scientific level when you very well know I am not? Unless you are doing that on purpose. Why would I whitewash something I don't believe in? Unless again you know that already and are just trying make it look like I said something I didn't.

They never win,

How do you mean?

Teaching them proper science would do that. But for some reason that doesn't please "teach the controversy" crowd.

But that's evading the issue somewhat.

Especially since it so very apparent that so many people cannot differentiate the two and are pushing for children to not be trained so that they can differentiate the two.

They never win, so why care?

I am not, but you are making them out to be bigger than they are. They never win so why care?:rolleyes:
Also why do you insist on assuming I am talking about this on a scientific level when you very well know I am not? Unless you are doing that on purpose. You're right. I should bury the hope that you'll stay on topic for once.
Why would I whitewash something I don't believe in? Unless again you know that already and are just trying make it look like I said something I didn't.Just because I don't know your motives doesn't mean this isn't a possibility.

:rolleyes:

Nice comeback...:rolleyes:


You're right. I should bury the hope that you'll stay on topic for once.

Been on topic all the time.


Just because I don't know your motives doesn't mean this isn't a possibility.

I have been open here, you just don't seem to listen.

How do you mean?

Trying to prove it on a scientific basis. They can't win that.

They never win, so why care?
What do you mean that they ‘never win’? If you mean Young Earth Creationist’s never get there message across to people, I think you’re, sadly, mistaken.

Young Earth Creationism is being taught in select American and British schools, is being pushed to be taught in all US and UK classrooms, and the next President of the US (is unlikely but) could potentially be a Young Earth Creationist.

EDIT: Ahh, you didn't mean that at all.

Trying to prove it on a scientific basis. They can't win that.

Correct - but they still convince people they can and did. En masse even.

Nice comeback...:rolleyes:It was a stupid assumption on your behalf. I'm not going to waste time trying to make you see the error of your underestimation of the wedge movement.
Been on topic all the time.This is a thread about a Creationist theme park whose mission statement is to provide an alternative to evolution. You're the one yapping on about creationism on a non-scientific level.
I have been open here, you just don't seem to listen.Please don't mistake my unwillingness to accept your flawed reasoning as an inability to listen.

Trying to prove it on a scientific basis. They can't win that.They don't have to prove it in order to do harm. All they need to do is change the common definition of what science is.

Correct–but they still convince people they can and did. En masse even.
Flagellum nonsense and ‘Irreducible Complexity’ waffle comes to mind.


Whatever, go on ahead with your baseless hate.
Critical discussion of a set of faulty ideas and concepts can in no way construe 'hate'.

Yes you can, scientists do it all the time. I am talking about creationism on a non-scientific level which I have stated before hand. There is a belief that creationism on any level would impede science and kill which I have stated before that it won't as creationism is NOT science. I have yet to see proof that creationism on a non-scientific level would impede anything.

That's because you're being wilfully ignorant. The people who are presenting creationism typically try to present it as an alternative to evolution. As a result, the beneficial aspects of evolution are to be ignored, in favour of a book of fiction.

This isn't hating religion, this is hating creationism. Creationism is just all-around bullshit and barely has a place in religion in the first place.

It was a stupid assumption on your behalf. I'm not going to waste time trying to make you see the error of your underestimation of the wedge movement.

Pardon me for not caring about a low level fringe movement that always loses and is becoming of less and less importance in a increasing secular world.


This is a thread about a Creationist theme park whose mission statement is to provide an alternative to evolution. You're the one yapping on about creationism on a non-scientific level.

And what have you been doing?

Please don't mistake my unwillingness to accept your flawed reasoning as an inability to listen.


Not flawed, you just don't listen. After all this time I am sure you still have no clue what I mean here.

No that is not what I meant. And they will never get that in all schools.

To darken science anywhere, is to darken science everywhere. (quote stolen and altered)

Creationism should never ever be taught in schools, anymore than that you're the result of the blood of ymer and the tears of yrsa.

What do you mean that they ‘never win’? If you mean Young Earth Creationist’s never get there message across to people, I think you’re, sadly, mistaken.

Young Earth Creationism is being taught in select American and British schools, is being pushed to be taught in all US and UK classrooms, and the next President of the US (is unlikely but) could potentially be a Young Earth Creationist.

EDIT: Ahh, you didn't mean that at all.



No that is not what I meant. And they will never get that in all schools.

Trying to prove it on a scientific basis. They can't win that.

No, but they are not trying to. (cf Wedge Strategy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy))

The grand aim is to replace a science-led material paradigm with a more christian friendly god-centric paradigm.


And dispite you're unwillingness to accept it. This could have dire consequences, especially for the US. Especially since the current POTUS is so seduced by this view.

White House appointees run riot at NASA, http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/04/science/04climate.html?ei=5090&en=485e8873aed34738&ex=1296709200&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1197896890-f+X1SfbPRkF2+732pOTKmQ

To me that is pretty serious.


Also you're claim that no harm is caused by it is rather narrow-minded. The cost of the IDers trying to get it taught as fact in Dover county cost the school board $1,000,000. I'm sorry, but that isn't pocket money, and I'm sure that it could have been better spent anyway.

There are also serious concerns that it could damage US scientific progress. In many fields. It is a very serious threat. Even if they do appear as harmless kooks.

PS sorry if the reply is all over the place, I'm trying to fit this in around loads of other stuff. So it might come quite scatter brained.

Also why do you insist on assuming I am talking about this on a scientific level when you very well know I am not?

You've yet to reply to my questions and state what level you ARE talking about.

No that is not what I meant. And they will never get that in all schools.

They don't need to get it in all schools. Just in enough schools.

Pardon me for not caring about a low level fringe movement that always loses and is becoming of less and less importance in a increasing secular world.

Now that is a very naive world view. I could be considered hubris if...

Anyway I digress. Creationism/ID isn't the only threat to a scientific secular society (and btw our world isn't becoming increasingly secular). There is so much woo out there in the big wild world. And unfortunately it is making inroads, and it is a threat. You putting your head in the sand and seeing an "increasingly secular world" will not stop that.

Not flawed, you just don't listen. After all this time I am sure you still have no clue what I mean here.

To be brutally honest, I don't think I do either.

No, but they are not trying to. (cf Wedge Strategy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy))

The grand aim is to replace a science-led material paradigm with a more christian friendly god-centric paradigm.


And dispite you're unwillingness to accept it. This could have dire consequences, especially for the US. Especially since the current POTUS is so seduced by this view.

White House appointees run riot at NASA, http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/04/science/04climate.html?ei=5090&en=485e8873aed34738&ex=1296709200&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1197896890-f+X1SfbPRkF2+732pOTKmQ

To me that is pretty serious.


Also you're claim that no harm is caused by it is rather narrow-minded. The cost of the IDers trying to get it taught as fact in Dover county cost the school board $1,000,000. I'm sorry, but that isn't pocket money, and I'm sure that it could have been better spent anyway.

There are also serious concerns that it could damage US scientific progress. In many fields. It is a very serious threat. Even if they do appear as harmless kooks.

PS sorry if the reply is all over the place, I'm trying to fit this in around loads of other stuff. So it might come quite scatter brained.



I'm starting to wonder if you people read english. You still seem lost on what I mean...One more time....

CREATIONISM IS NOT SCIENCE AND ANYBODY WHO TRIES TO GET IT SEEN AS SUCH IS A FUCKING MORON AND CREATIONISM ON A NON-SCIENTIFIC LEVEL WON'T IMPEDE SCIENCE BECAUSE IT WON'T AFFECT IT AS IT'S NOT SCIENCE.

Get that?

They don't need to get it in all schools. Just in enough schools.

Private schools is all they will get...Public nope.

I'm starting to wonder if you people read english. You still seem lost on what I mean...One more time....

CREATIONISM IS NOT SCIENCE AND ANYBODY WHO TRIES TO GET IT SEEN AS SUCH IS A FUCKING MORON.

Get that?

We do.

Do you?

You're the one advocating that we should tolerate it. Tolerating it at this point means accepting that it will be taught in schools. That is unacceptable.

Private schools is all they will get...Public nope.

No one should honestly believe creationism above evolution. Teaching creationism as science should be a crime. That's what creationists are trying to do, regardless of your motives.

Pardon me for not caring about a low level fringe movement that always loses and is becoming of less and less importance in a increasing secular world.Now that simply isn't true. They're gaining prominence in Britain, for instance.

I'm starting to wonder if you people read english. You still seem lost on what I mean...One more time....

CREATIONISM IS NOT SCIENCE AND ANYBODY WHO TRIES TO GET IT SEEN AS SUCH IS A FUCKING MORON AND CREATIONISM ON A NON-SCIENTIFIC LEVEL WON'T IMPEDE SCIENCE BECAUSE IT WON'T AFFECT IT AS IT'S NOT SCIENCE.

Get that?

Creationism claims to be science.
And what other level are you talking about?

I'm starting to wonder if you people read english. You still seem lost on what I mean...One more time....

CREATIONISM IS NOT SCIENCE AND ANYBODY WHO TRIES TO GET IT SEEN AS SUCH IS A FUCKING MORON.

Get that?

I'm starting to wonder if you can read and comprehend english.


THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE WITH CREATIONISM. THE FACT IT IS NOT SCIENCE IS BESIDE THE POINT. GET ENGAGED WITH THE ISSUE BEFORE YOU MAKE YOURSELF THE PARAGON.

Get that?

Private schools is all they will get...Public nope.

Er... you might want to check the situation in the UK. Blair actually managed to get it into some public schools now.

Oh well, I will leave you people to your hatred of religion and belief that creationism on any level will teh killz us allz rants. Have fun kids.

Hatred of creationism =/= hatred of religion.

Private schools is all they will get...Public nope.

And you are so sure because...

Private schools is all they will get...Public nope.

Wrong. That is exactly the problem.

Oh well, I will leave you people to your hatred of religion and belief that creationism on any level will teh killz us allz rants. Have fun kids.

Without ever replying to my question? Don't you think that's rather impolite, seeing as I've asked 3 times by now?

Er... no?

Sorry me being dumb, totally the wrong person.

Oh well, I will leave you people to your hatred of religion and belief that creationism on any level will teh killz us allz rants. Have fun kids.

Oh well, I will leave you people to your hatred of religion and belief that creationism on any level will teh killz us allz rants. Have fun kids.

:rolleyes:

http://www.rhlschool.com/reading.htm

Knock yourself out

I'm starting to wonder if you can read and comprehend english.


THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE WITH CREATIONISM. THE FACT IT IS NOT SCIENCE IS BESIDE THE POINT. GET ENGAGED WITH THE ISSUE BEFORE YOU MAKE YOURSELF THE PARAGON.

Get that?



Yep, english is not your strong suit...neither is logic.

Now that simply isn't true. They're gaining prominence in Britain, for instance.


They get 5 more people did they? Stop being so paranoid.

Oh well, I will leave you people to your hatred of religion and belief that creationism on any level will teh killz us allz rants. Have fun kids.You see, that attitude is out of place in a thread about a creationist theme park. This thread is all about creationism invading the science classes.

They get 5 more people did they? Stop being so paranoid.Thought you were leaving us.

Yep, english is not your strong suit...neither is logic.

My english and logic is fine.

The fact that no one (other then the person who sees disagreement as "religion hating") seems to be objecting to it is indicative of something.

:rolleyes:

http://www.rhlschool.com/reading.htm

Knock yourself out



:rolleyes:



Might want to use that yourself, maybe you will learn something for once. Nah.

They get 5 more people did they? Stop being so paranoid.

http://education.guardian.co.uk/schools/story/0,,1957858,00.html
http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syndication/article_060410creation.shtml
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4648598.stm

Here ya go...

Thought you were leaving us.

Every heard of parting comments?

Oh well, I will leave you people to your hatred of religion and belief that creationism on any level will teh killz us allz rants. Have fun kids.
And have fun putting words into our mouths, equating discourse with hatred.

I will never stop being amazed at peoples inability too handle debate and argumentation.

You see, that attitude is out of place in a thread about a creationist theme park. This thread is all about creationism invading the science classes.

Which I have said creationism has no place their because it's not science. And yes there is much hate for religion here.

Which I have said creationism has no place their because it's not science. And yes there is much hate for religion here.

Ok, let me ask for the 5th time now : What would you claim Creationism to be, if not science (as Creationsim itself claims to be)?

And have fun putting words into our mouths, equating discourse with hatred.

I will never stop being amazed at peoples inability too handle debate and argumentation.



Thats all on you kid, you people are the ones putting words in my mouth.

:rolleyes:



Might want to use that yourself, maybe your ignorant ass will learn something for once. Nah.

"I know you are, you said you are, but what am I?"

Was fail even before I left primary school.

Thats all on you kid, you people are the ones putting words in my mouth.

Nobody here put anything in your mouth. On the contrary, we're all waiting with baited breath for you to finally answer my question...

My english and logic is fine.

The fact that no one (other then the person who sees disagreement as "religion hating") seems to be objecting to it is indicative of something.

Ahem! Your English and Logic IS fine ummm?:D

Which I have said creationism has no place their because it’s not science. And yes there is much hate for religion here.
Back and forth, back and forth.

You say that us ‘kids’ display “hatred of religion”. I fail to see this ‘hatred’. I see disagreement, debate, and impassioned argumentation, but I fail to see hatred.

Care to point to some?

Which I have said creationism has no place their because it's not science. And yes there is much hate for religion here.

There is a lot of dislike of religion on these forums, yes.
However in this topic it is about creationism - which is religion pretending to be science using deception and lies to gain prominence. With disturbing success.

You and I agree that creationism is not science. The creationists themselves disagree. And for some reason they are managing to convince more and more people that they are right and we are wrong; all through deception.

Is the backlash of dislike for them then really so odd ? Hell - even believers should dislike them for perverting their faith.

Every heard of parting comments?Yeah. They usually involve parting.

Which I have said creationism has no place their because it's not science. And yes there is much hate for religion here.And then you berrated everyone else for pointing out how bad an idea it was.

Ahem! Your English and Logic IS fine ummm?:D

:eek: (this forum needs an embarrassed smily)

Proper grammar goes out the window when I'm multi-tasking ;)

Well, last post kiddies. Countless posts and not one of you understood what I meant. Maybe I should explain one more time for the learning impaired? Won't help much for you people...but here it goes.



Creationism is not science and cannot be proven as such
Creationism will never be accepted as science
Creationism cannot harm or impede something it's not related too


Easy yes? I hear a bunch of duhs from the crowd. I will leave you people that, as that will be hard enough for you people to get..

Creationism is not science and cannot be proven as such
Creationism will never be accepted as science
Creationism cannot harm or impede something it's not related too

And for the tenth time: the second and third statement are simply false.

Well, last post kiddies. Countless posts and not one of you ignorant fools understood what I meant. Maybe I should explain one more time for the learning impaired? Won't help much for you people...but here it goes.



Creationism is not science and cannot be proven as such
Creationism will never be accepted as science
Creationism cannot harm or impede something it's not related too


Easy yes? I hear a bunch of duhs from the crowd. I will leave you people that, as that will be hard enough for you people to get..It's funny, because for all your yapping on about people not listening to you, you completely ignored me when I pointed out that your last two assumptions are false.

Well, last post kiddies. Countless posts and not one of you ignorant fools understood what I meant. Maybe I should explain one more time for the learning impaired? Won't help much for you people...but here it goes.



Creationism is not science and cannot be proven as such
Creationism will never be accepted as science
Creationism cannot harm or impede something it's not related too


Easy yes? I hear a bunch of duhs from the crowd. I will leave you people that, as that will be hard enough for you people to get..

... aaaaaaaaaaaand an epic PHAIL, as you still haven't replied to my question what, according to you, creationism IS.

Well, last post kiddies. Countless posts and not one of you ignorant fools understood what I meant. Maybe I should explain one more time for the learning impaired? Won't help much for you people...but here it goes.



Creationism is not science and cannot be proven as such
True!
Creationism will never be accepted as science
True(-ish)!
Creationism cannot harm or impede something it's not related too
False! So false it isn't funny!


. Countless posts and not one of you ignorant fools understood what I meant
You know that generally means the person not being understood is at fault right?

Easy yes? I hear a bunch of duhs from the crowd. I will leave you people that, as that will be hard enough for you people to get..
Ignoring debate and resorting to (mild) flaming?

Poor show all round.

Creationism cannot harm or impede something it's not related too
False! So false it isn't funny!

In all fairness, it's true. However, the problem lies in that creationism is related to evolution, in that creationists like to use the argument that "creationism did it, so evolution is false" and stuff like "god made the universe. Evolution is false".

Unrelated, yes, but the creationists themselves create the link and therefore the possibility for harm.

Countless posts and not one of you ignorant fools understood what I meant

What did you mean?

Was it: Creationism is not science? Because we agree with you there. However, creationists themselves do not agree with you.

Or was it: Creationism should be taught in school? Because there I'll have to disagree vehemently, as that would be akin to allowing the creationists a victory at the cost of science.

Or what?

You really should study up on creationism before you defend it.

In all fairness, it's true.

Fraid not. Creationism promotes a certain way of thinking that is extremely destructive to the scientific method in general.

Creationism is not science and cannot be proven as such

True.

Creationism will never be accepted as science

Unless you know the future you can't know that.

Creationism cannot harm or impede something it's not related too

Huh? Now that makes no sense, how do you figure that one out then? Something that is unrelated cannot cause harm nor impede that which it is unrelated to. My dog is unrelated to the human creature but if it bites me I will be harmed.



Easy yes? I hear a bunch of duhs from the crowd. I will leave you people that, as that will be hard enough for you people to get..

I love this type of post that makes a big deal of supposedly superior brain power.

In all fairness, it's true. However, the problem lies in that creationism is related to evolution, in that creationists like to use the argument that "creationism did it, so evolution is false" and stuff like "god made the universe. Evolution is false".

Unrelated, yes, but the creationists themselves create the link and therefore the possibility for harm.

However, I also think it is false because the mentality creates two (or more) seperate and discrete spheres and pretends that both are totally mutually irrelevent and cannot interact with each other at all.

Something which I think is naive to say the least.

I love this type of post that makes a big deal of supposedly superior brain power.

Especially given the evidence to the contrary...

Fraid not. Creationism promotes a certain way of thinking that is extremely destructive to the scientific method in general.

It depends on how you look at it.

What I mean by that it is true, it's that by the very actions of Creationists, Creationism and Evolution are related and therefore Creationism can harm and impede evolution.

Therefore, the statement is correct, but it does not apply.

That's what I meant.

However, I also think it is false because the mentality creates two (or more) seperate and discrete spheres and pretends that both are totally mutually irrelevent and cannot interact with each other at all.

Something which I think is naive to say the least.

Hmm, if you take the statement to its extreme it does become a problem.

My point is that creationism and evolution are not as unrelated as some would have us think - Creationist often try to devalue evolution to support creationism.

My point is that creationism and evolution are not as unrelated as some would have us think - Creationist often try to devalue evolution to support creationism.

I think we are trying to say the same thing with different words :D

I think we are trying to say the same thing with different words :D

yes... I suppose :P

Creationism is to evolution what dog is to man :p

How the hell is brainwashing people with creationist bullshit going to improve the direction of society?

And what the hell? According to a few of the responses here they're actually use tax money for this? Yet Christians have the nerve to complain about tax dollars being used for embryonic stem cell research when their reasons for being opposed to said research are thoroughly retarded?

'It will be a halfway house for youngsters,' Jones said. 'Today all they do is binge drink. We will be able to offer them an alternative.'
:headbang: That's just age-prejudice. I don't drink alcohol at all. Ironically there's SCIENTIFIC reason NOT to binge drink, though I don't remember the details from grade 12 Biology right now... but still, even then, alcohol intoxication is called that for a reason, alcohol is a poison, and until technology replaces the human body it's all I have and I don't wanna make it worse than it is... (damn type 1 diabetes)

Futhermore, I deviate from the supposed majority by not having religious belief just like I deviated from the majority by not going to grad tear, the post-grad party involving drinking. With regards to how "of the majority" both are, religion and alcohol are kinda similar.

With regards to how "of the majority" both are, religion and alcohol are kinda similar.
Indeed. Go to church too much and you'll fall over and vomit.

Indeed. Go to church too much and you'll fall over and vomit.
Well, not necessarily, people get used to it pretty easily. But prolonged church exposure can probably cause brain damage. :p

Come to think of it, they are quite similar, people use similar reasonings to justify both, such as appeals to the majority like "everyone's doing it"

:eek: (this forum needs an embarrassed smily)

German Nightmare or m'self might be able to hook you up if you want.
LG's got a few too, but they're .... racy.
:p

Indeed. Go to church too much and you'll fall over and vomit.

AND too much and you'll want to fuck everyone/thing in sight/grasp, sloppily, clumsily, with a lot of gasping and missing.

Lawdy, no! Say t'ain't so! A god-fearin' christian lookin' to take in some suckas!

It looks more like they're trying to get the government to promote religion. They want the money to pay for the creation of religious propaganda. The goal is prosylitization not entertainment.

I don't think the government should approve their request for government dollars.