NationStates Jolt Archive

Sorry fass, when you come into a thread like this, making statements like that, you need to construct... you know... an argument, I know this is hard for you. Egotistical rhetoric doesn't count I'm afraid.

I didn't say Maryland was fine. It's just better than Jersey, which you must admit doesn't say much about Maryland.


You ever been to New Jersey? :confused:

I don't notice anything more or less terrible about it, but maybe natives develop a sort of immunity as we get absorbed by the land.

Well, at least I can only go up from here.

at least its not forgotten totally like poor delaware is.

Well...Delaware should not have split off from Pennsylvania.

No one is subject to illegitimate laws.

And the legitimacy of a law is determined not by how it got on the books but by its substance.



I don't have to leave to avoid having my rights violated. Everyone else simply has to stop violating my rights.

Keep repeating that like a broken record. I'm sure reality will conform to your view.

But I'm still not holding my breath.

I also notice you didn't bother to respond to my suggesting that you get together like-minded people and change the laws. Is this then a more sophisticated version of "la la la not listening to the rest of you", or do you have no ambition to fight for what you believe?

Do you believe in the Lord? Or are you one of those idiots who claims to, but is a cynic deep down? I bet on the latter. You sound like an idiot.

Knock it off.

America can be a tough and rude place. It often produces tough and rude people. We are not known for our sensitivity, empathy or nuance. Most of the time - our arrogance, selfishness and violence are a detriment. On occasion though, it's the only thing that can save your Europussy asses.

The jokes are fun but everyone from NJ has already hear them. Here are some interesting facts about the horrible state of NJ. Formerly wealthiest state in the union now #2. #1 in sending students to college and # 1 in people with graduate and post graduate degrees. NJ is the world leader in Biotech and pharmacuticals. NJ has everything you could want: beaches, cities, mountains, parks, lakes, Atlantic City (not my favorite), close proximity to Philly and NYC... some of the best restaurants in the country, great museums and cultural experiences, etc. Being a lifelong resident of NY and NJ has been a wonderful experience for me and I highly suggest people visit before judging it. As for smells, Staten Island leads them all with the Fresh (Arthur) Kills Landfill. But I still love the bagels and pizza there which are only second to my birthplace of Brooklyn.

Unfortunately, the state corruption and sky-high taxes on everything imaginable, especially property taxes, are forcing people to leave in droves.

at least its not forgotten totally like poor delaware is.

I don't forget Delaware!

It's on the way between Maryland and New Jersey!


*runs* ;)

(also land of tax-free shopping. And nice beaches. Woo-hoo!)

Unfortunately, the state corruption and sky-high taxes on everything imaginable, especially property taxes, are forcing people to leave in droves.

Spoken like a true New Yorker. Harumph.

Though the property taxes are a right pain in the ass.

NJ is also so densely populated, that each year certain people are struck with a madness, and like lemmings, run towards the Jersey Shore out into the ocean and drown.

Unfortunately, the state corruption and sky-high taxes on everything imaginable, especially property taxes, are forcing people to leave in droves.



I don't forget Delaware!

It's on the way between Maryland and New Jersey!


*runs* ;)

(also land of tax-free shopping. And nice beaches. Woo-hoo!)

Yes Kat, I must agree with you. But NY taxes aren't really any better now are they? Going to dinner in midtown on a Saturday night not only sets you back for the meal, but $50 to park for two hours. Sheesh. I still love NYC, the place of my birth, so I continue to grin and bear it. There actually was a cartoon illuminating the numbers about exactly what you are saying. It was a comical play on why people are leaving NJ. Great state, too damn expensive.

man i was in ohio and got shot at/ thrown rocks at WITHOUT trolling for the bad side.

and don't forget the private water system in NJ that a whole load of people can't afford, and that the high taxes are only bad if you're lower class.

You know, people leaving NJ might actually be a good thing.
1) I believe it's still the most densely populated state in the country.
2) There are WAY, WAAAAY too damn many of us Indians hear. There must certainly be enough of us concentrated in NJ now to enact our master plan of making you our slaves by addicting you to Indian food and spices, and then withholding them until our demands our met.
It is only a matter of time, now! MUAHAHAHAHAHA...


But don't worry, we'll keep some of you, especially LG, as pets.

man i was in ohio and got shot at/ thrown rocks at WITHOUT trolling for the bad side.

I can honestly say I've lived in Ohio for 21 years of my life and never witnessed such a sight. Were you cruising the ghetto in Cincinnati or something?

I can honestly say I've lived in Ohio for 21 years of my life and never witnessed such a sight. Were you cruising the ghetto in Cincinnati or something?

Probably was during the troubles that neighborhood was having. I mean come-on. You complain about lack of police protection and then they up and left leaving the area to their own devices? Mayor had balls for that one. The neighborhood was begging the police to come back.

Woe is I, but still not so woe as to have to live in that horrible place, so I'll always have you beat.

Your kung-fu is weak, young grasshopper. Such a pathetic response, steeped in your own ignorance and bigotry, makes me think that you've dulled a substantial degree. But, regardless, you have no idea what sort of amazing things you'll never get to experience because of your doctrinaire ignorance.

Oh, noes. You gloated over a moderation decision in your ésprit de l'éscalier. Woe is you.

No, I actually find the moderators decision ill judged and foolish, but I can certainly see where they're coming from, given that all you do around here is flame, flame, flame, without even the remotest semblance of an argument. In fact, that's what is most contemptible about your style here: You come with the attitude of a thirteen year old bully, and match that behavior pattern exactly.

Probably was during the troubles that neighborhood was having. I mean come-on. You complain about lack of police protection and then they up and left leaving the area to their own devices? Mayor had balls for that one. The neighborhood was begging the police to come back.

Ugh, that entire city is so weird at times. Don't get me wrong, I actually kind like Cincinnasti, but it's so weird.

Ugh, that entire city is so weird at times. Don't get me wrong, I actually kind like Cincinnasti, but it's so weird.

That I can agree with.

I'm confused by all the Jersey-bashing. Are people serious, or is this a running joke (like how Minnesotas bag on Wisconsin because the idiot cheeseheads deserve it)?

I've visited Jersey many times because my partner's family lives there, and it doesn't seem much different from the midwestern suburbs my own family lives in. They have IHOP instead of Perkin's and their streets are more curvy, but besides that I haven't noticed much to distinguish the two regions.

Only be careful to make sure there's no one already claiming the place, because the acceptance of wholesale people-moving ended sometime in 1947, after Pakistan but before Israel... or that's what I'm told, at least. This leaves you with Antartica, the ocean floor, or outer space. Or, wait for a volcano to breach the surface in international waters, then get their first.

Assorted notes on the thread:

Yes, the insects in south Florida are THAT BAD. I have been there. But the insects are nothing to worry about, because they are eaten by lizards. Then snakes eat the lizards, and Alligators eat the snakes. People who are overly concerned about the insects don't watch where they are going, and get eatern by alligators.

Carry a whole, raw chicken with you at all times. If you are cornered by an alligator, you drop the chicken and try to escape while the alligator eats it. This is probably a political allegory for something... and I don't think its coincidence at all that alligator and allegory sound alike.

Elsewhere in the deep south, yes, you can get beaten up for expressing an extreme dislike of country music or car racing. So? In England (been there too) you can get beaten up for expressing support for the wrong football team, or something as simple as driving on the right, which the rest of the EU does but the English stubbornly refuse. I've heard the EU is going to force England to adopt this, though, and the English are going to phase it in: Trucks (Lorries to my Brit friends!) and Busses will start driving on the right in 2008, cars in 2010, motorcycles and scooters in 2012.

Meanwhile, elsewhere in the world you can get beaten up for a variety of reasons. In most of the Arab world, "Jewish" will do it for you, while in the extreme parts "not Arab enough for us" will work. Or even being female and exposing too much ankle in public. Or exposing a point of view in public. In some places the men are very, um... traditional... and modesty demands that the women not expose their points of view to strangers.

And in South America (been there), you can get beaten up just because that's what they feel like doing at the time. Sometimes, they go farther, and stuff you in the back of a car and mail a finger or two back to your family. It's a quaint tradition, but it will make anyone familiar with the USA wish he was back in South Carolina, getting beaten up because he said country music was gay.

If by chance you are not American, and you haven't been here, or if you are American and wish to travel abroad, here are some things which are really, really great about America, but get ignored by most of our critics:

1) We view toilet paper as a necessity, not a luxury. When you use a toilet, public or private, you can generally expect that it will be provided, for free.

2) Wherever you are from, you can find some little piece of home, somewhere in the USA, probably in New York City. When you travel on a New York subway, it is impossible to look like a foreigner- everyone looks like they belong there.

3) If you report a crime, even a petty theft, the police will take it seriously. Odds are they will not solve the crime, and you will never see your camera again, but at least they will act as if solving the crime is their job.

4) If the power goes out we will not riot in the streets. We got over that years ago. Now we just hand out ice cream. If the power is out and you see rioting, check your map, you have crossed the border into Canada.

5) If you see a sign showing the hours of business on an American store, you can be reasonably certain that during those hours the store will actually be open. The clerk may be a clueless teenager, but they will be open for business.

6) We are what we are and we feel no need to force it. No one tells us what language our signs have to be in, or that we have to have X many hours of TV programming out of the day which are "distinctly American." What you see is what you get. Americans are not never subtle, which is a plus when you have a zillion different cultures, none of which would really understand the subtleties of the others anyway.

7) We are accomodating to visitors from around the globe! You can get a taxi driver that speaks fluent Urdu, Bengali, Turkish, Spanish, Haitian Creole... although you may have a problem with English.

8) Service employees of all kinds will treat you with a smile and good cheer. They be faking it, but they fake it well. They understand that their paychecks actually originate with the customers.

9) America is open past 6 pm, on weekdays.

10) You can make up all kinds of crazy things about your homeland, and most Americans will beleive you. Don't blame us for not understanding how things really are where you come from. We are still trying to understand California, and when we finally get that done, THEN we can move on to the rest of the world. But don't underestimate us either. We specialize. We may not all know about the place you come from, but somewhere, we have a few of us who were born and raised there, and they know everything there is to know about you, including what you really put in the meat pies, and they can tell us what we need to know.

I was going to *snip* this in my reply, but dammit, it's too well written and deserves to be seen again. *clears throat*

THREADWINNER.

Bah pedant. I if I say I hate the French then that can certainly be classed as racism.

Nope. Check the stats on immigration to France. Jews from the diaspora and Spaniards from WWII and the Spanish Civil War, respectively. Folks from the Middle East and North Africa who came to help rebuild France after WWII, and so forth. They're perhaps not as diverse a conglomerate as the US, but for Europe, they're quite melty.

Do you believe in the Lord? Or are you one of those idiots who claims to, but is a cynic deep down? I bet on the latter. You sound like an idiot.

Are you trying to sound clever? Because it isn't working.

Anyone with an actual schooling in philosophy should know that reliance on empirical facts =/= empiricism. All knowledge ultimately is derived empirically, that much is trivially true. However there are varying methodologies for arriving at truth, both based on reason and on empirical testing.

A lesson on epistemology in the third paragraph from the same paucity of intellect that spouted the first paragraph? No thanks.

"Kiss her where it smells. Take her to New Jersey." - George Carlin

Correct attribution: - T-shirt George bought in NJ and mentioned in his 1988 recording What Am I Doing in New Jersey?.

The jokes are fun but everyone from NJ has already hear them. Here are some interesting facts about the horrible state of NJ. Formerly wealthiest state in the union now #2. #1 in sending students to college and # 1 in people with graduate and post graduate degrees. NJ is the world leader in Biotech and pharmacuticals. NJ has everything you could want: beaches, cities, mountains, parks, lakes, Atlantic City (not my favorite), close proximity to Philly and NYC... some of the best restaurants in the country, great museums and cultural experiences, etc. Being a lifelong resident of NY and NJ has been a wonderful experience for me and I highly suggest people visit before judging it. As for smells, Staten Island leads them all with the Fresh (Arthur) Kills Landfill. But I still love the bagels and pizza there which are only second to my birthplace of Brooklyn.

Everything else is dead on, in my experience, but MOUNTAINS?!? You made me spit water on my monitor. Have you ever SEEN real mountains? The Rockies, the Grand Tetons, the Cascades? Sorry, but I liked Jersey when I was there, but mountains? No.

As a non-American, I get the impression that the large geographical area of the country creates a kind of ... lag? I.e. progress takes time to reach all the parts of the country, so you get the "rednecks" in the places where people are still a bit more primitive.

I probably didn't explain that well, but the main point is that I think the large size of the country allows it to be both a centre of social and technological progress in the world and at the same time have some people with very backwards ideas.

QFT, 100%.

Yes Kat, I must agree with you. But NY taxes aren't really any better now are they? Going to dinner in midtown on a Saturday night not only sets you back for the meal, but $50 to park for two hours. Sheesh. I still love NYC, the place of my birth, so I continue to grin and bear it. There actually was a cartoon illuminating the numbers about exactly what you are saying. It was a comical play on why people are leaving NJ. Great state, too damn expensive.

You drive to midtown? Good Lord, why?

You know, people leaving NJ might actually be a good thing.
1) I believe it's still the most densely populated state in the country.
2) There are WAY, WAAAAY too damn many of us Indians hear. There must certainly be enough of us concentrated in NJ now to enact our master plan of making you our slaves by addicting you to Indian food and spices, and then withholding them until our demands our met.
It is only a matter of time, now! MUAHAHAHAHAHA...

Legions of curryheads with yellow-stained fingers moaning "naaaan....naaaan" as they look for their next masala fix. Nice!

You should know how TV works, they were probably doing their best to find all the worst bits of the USA and to be provocative.

The last bit about New Orleans was probably the truest. From what I've seen there was little concern for Louisiana after Katrina - from both the government and the public. But even then one of the presenters paid for people to take his car away, another couldn't even manage that.

The show was meant to be entertaining, not informative. Keep that in mind. I did find it quite funny though. :)

I'd still point to the reaction they got in the hick town. That was genuinely quite disturbing.

Which is why they went there. Seriously, I bet they drove through a few towns, hoping for a good reaction on camera.

Meh, that's immaterial. You'd be hard pressed to get the same reaction anywhere else in the west.

I'd still point to the reaction they got in the hick town. That was genuinely quite disturbing.

Which is why they went there. Seriously, I bet they drove through a few towns, hoping for a good reaction on camera.

I'd still point to the reaction they got in the hick town. That was genuinely quite disturbing.

This has been addressed in this thread. We have no idea about how the "reaction" was "provoked because we only see what the show wants us to see. Again -- no fuss was made by those supposedly assaulted, and no coverage whatsoever in any legitimate news agency of the incident. Conclusion: it was staged or set up.

Meh, that's immaterial. You'd be hard pressed to get the same reaction anywhere else in the west.

Which itself is immaterial to how 'bad' the US really is. In one town out of who knows how many they drove through, they were chased out by a bunch of hicks. A few thousand people out of a country which is home to hundreds of millions is hardly representative.

I'm confused by all the Jersey-bashing. Are people serious, or is this a running joke (like how Minnesotas bag on Wisconsin because the idiot cheeseheads deserve it)?

I've visited Jersey many times because my partner's family lives there, and it doesn't seem much different from the midwestern suburbs my own family lives in. They have IHOP instead of Perkin's and their streets are more curvy, but besides that I haven't noticed much to distinguish the two regions.

It's mostly a running joke.

Except for Kat. She is a New Yorker, the arch-nemesis of all Jerseyans, and filled with naught but cold, bitter rage that our state is inherently better than hers. ;)

Everything else is dead on, in my experience, but MOUNTAINS?!? You made me spit water on my monitor. Have you ever SEEN real mountains? The Rockies, the Grand Tetons, the Cascades? Sorry, but I liked Jersey when I was there, but mountains? No.

Technically speaking, High Point, NJ, despite being part of the Kitatinny Mountain Range, is actually not classified as a mountain, due to it being below the height above sea level required to reach that classification.
So technically speaking, NJ doesn't actually have any mountains in it.

Legions of curryheads with yellow-stained fingers moaning "naaaan....naaaan" as they look for their next masala fix. Nice!

Exactly! Beware! BEWAAAAAAARE!!!! :D

I was going to *snip* this in my reply, but dammit, it's too well written and deserves to be seen again. *clears throat*

THREADWINNER.



Nope. Check the stats on immigration to France. Jews from the diaspora and Spaniards from WWII and the Spanish Civil War, respectively. Folks from the Middle East and North Africa who came to help rebuild France after WWII, and so forth. They're perhaps not as diverse a conglomerate as the US, but for Europe, they're quite melty.



A lesson on epistemology in the third paragraph from the same paucity of intellect that spouted the first paragraph? No thanks.



Correct attribution: - T-shirt George bought in NJ and mentioned in his 1988 recording What Am I Doing in New Jersey?.



Everything else is dead on, in my experience, but MOUNTAINS?!? You made me spit water on my monitor. Have you ever SEEN real mountains? The Rockies, the Grand Tetons, the Cascades? Sorry, but I liked Jersey when I was there, but mountains? No.



QFT, 100%.



You drive to midtown? Good Lord, why?



Legions of curryheads with yellow-stained fingers moaning "naaaan....naaaan" as they look for their next masala fix. Nice!

Yes, I've left NJ and traveled to many different states and countries. NJ has the Kittatiny Mountain range and although they are not beautiful or majestic... My favorite mountain range is the Rockies actually

Yes, I've left NJ and traveled to many different states and countries. NJ has the Kittatiny Mountain range and although they are not beautiful or majestic... My favorite mountain range is the Rockies actually

To you, I say...

Technically speaking, High Point, NJ, despite being part of the Kitatinny Mountain Range, is actually not classified as a mountain, due to it being below the height above sea level required to reach that classification.

So technically speaking, NJ doesn't actually have any mountains in it.


...and phooey on your so-called "Tiny Kita Mountains".

I liked Jersey when I was there. Went to see the birthplace of Count Basie, Red Bank. I once had time to kill in Newark on a flight delay out of NYC. It was spring, and I was expecting a shithole from all the accounts I'd heard in anecdote and joke. I found it to be industrial, but not horrid.

I recently watched an episode of Top Gear (see: British car show) in which they went to the US for a challenge (buy a car each for $1000 or less in Miami, then drive to New Orleans and try to sell them for more than that). Their trip, to sum it up, was TERRIBLE. In Miami, they were told not to go past 79th Street or they would definitely be murdered. Jeremy Clarkson said that in Miami, "the insects are annoying, it's full of fat people, old people, people who offer you cheese with everything and then shoot you".

In one challenge, they tried to get each other "arrested or shot" by painting slogans on their cars and driving through Alabama. Said slogans were "Country western is rubbish", "Hillary for President" and "Man-love rules". They ended up being chased out of town by hicks in a pickup throw rocks at them.

They got to New Orleans, and they wanted to sell their cars. But the city was still in absolute ruins from Hurricane Katrina. It felt wrong to sell them, so they ended up giving them away. Clarkson said "I don't know how the rest of America sleeps at night, knowing that this is here".

Is the US really that bad?

These are the people who brought us stuff like the "war on terror" and abu ghraib...
Are we really surprised when we see how they act at home?

Cite, please.


First let me say I'm not siding with Ferrous Oxide but he is right:
Study: Geography Greek to young Americans
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- After more than three years of combat and nearly 2,400 U.S. military deaths in Iraq, nearly two-thirds of Americans aged 18 to 24 still cannot find Iraq on a map, a study released Tuesday showed.

The study found that less than six months after Hurricane Katrina devastated New Orleans and the Gulf Coast, 33 percent could not point out Louisiana on a U.S. map.

The National Geographic-Roper Public Affairs 2006 Geographic Literacy Study paints a dismal picture of the geographic knowledge of the most recent graduates of the U.S. education system.

"Taken together, these results suggest that young people in the United States ... are unprepared for an increasingly global future," said the study's final report.

"Far too many lack even the most basic skills for navigating the international economy or understanding the relationships among people and places that provide critical context for world events."

The study, which surveyed 510 young Americans from December 17 to January 20, showed that 88 percent of those questioned could not find Afghanistan on a map of Asia despite widespread coverage of the U.S.-led overthrow of the Taliban in 2001 and the political rebirth of the country.

In the Middle East, 63 percent could not find Iraq or Saudi Arabia on a map, and 75 percent could not point out Iran or Israel. Forty-four percent couldn't find any one of those four countries.

Inside the United States, "half or fewer of young men and women 18-24 can identify the states of New York or Ohio on a map [50 percent and 43 percent, respectively]," the study said.

On the positive side, the study noted, seven in 10 young Americans correctly located China on a map, even though they had a number of misconceptions about that country. Forty-five percent said China's population is only twice that of the United States. It's actually four times larger than the U.S. population.

When the poll was conducted in 2002, "Americans scored second to last on overall geographic knowledge, trailing Canada, France, Germany, Great Britain, Italy, Japan and Sweden," the report said.

The release of the 2006 study coincides with the launch of the National Geographic-led campaign called "My Wonderful World." A statement on the program said it was designed to "inspire parents and educators to give their kids the power of global knowledge."

That said the Americians on here no doubt can and also I doubt that many people here, in Canada could find Iraq on a map either.

Edit: Oh, look they did the same study in different places I couldn't find results for different countries but,
In a nation called the world's superpower, only 17 percent of young adults in the United States could find Afghanistan on a map, according to a new worldwide survey released today. The young U.S. citizens received poor marks generally in geography. But then, as results showed, their counterparts in other countries were hardly star students.

The National Geographic–Roper 2002 Global Geographic Literacy Survey polled more than 3,000 18- to 24-year-olds in Canada, France, Germany, Great Britain, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Sweden and the United States.

Sweden scored highest; Mexico, lowest. The U.S. was next to last.

"The survey demonstrates the geographic illiteracy of the United States," said Robert Pastor, professor of International Relations at American University, in Washington, D.C. "The results are particularly appalling in light of September 11, which traumatized America and revealed that our destiny is connected to the rest of the world."

About 11 percent of young citizens of the U.S. couldn't even locate the U.S. on a map. The Pacific Ocean's location was a mystery to 29 percent; Japan, to 58 percent; France, to 65 percent; and the United Kingdom, to 69 percent.

Are Young U.S. Citizens Americentric?

Despite the threat of war in Iraq and the daily reports of suicide bombers in Israel, less than 15 percent of the young U.S. citizens could locate either country.

More young U.S. citizens in the study knew that the island featured in last season's TV show "Survivor" is in the South Pacific than could find Israel.

Particularly humiliating was that all countries were better able to identify the U.S. population than many young U.S. citizens. Within the U.S., almost one-third said that population was between one billion and two billion; the answer is 289 million.

"It gives the sense that there is this Americentric thing going on—that we are big and powerful and have all these people in our country," said John Fahey, President and CEO of the National Geographic Society.
Young adults worldwide are not markedly more literate about geography than the Americans.

On average, fewer than 25 percent of young people worldwide could locate Israel on the map. Only about 20 percent could identify hotspots like Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq.

Of all the young adults in the survey, only about one-third in Germany, Sweden and Japan, could name four countries that officially acknowledge having nuclear weapons. In the rest of the countries that number dropped to less than a quarter. In France 24 percent did not know that that their own country was a nuclear nation.

The survey results are not all bleak, says Roger Downs, head of the geography department at Pennsylvania State University, in State College, and a National Geographic geographer-in-residence in 1995-1996.

Geography Not Valued in Schools

Since the last Geographic-sponsored survey in 1988, said Downs, the percentage of young U.S. citizens who reported taking a geography course in school rose from 30 to 55 percent. And students who had studied geography did better on the current survey.

U.S. schools generally have slighted geography. "If geography is not in the curriculum," Downs said, "it's not tested—and that says to the students that it is not valued."

The schools are not solely to blame, either. "Wouldn't it be nice if parents also read atlases to their children?" Downs says.

Questions covering current events or practical activities yielded more promising results.

Most young U.S. citizens knew that Africa was most affected by the AIDS epidemic, and about half knew that El Niño caused erratic weather.

"When geography and life intersect, people pay attention," said Nick Boyon, senior vice president for international research at RoperASW, in Manhattan.

Boosting Geography

Geographic knowledge increases through travel and language proficiency, among other factors.

In the highest-scoring countries—Sweden, Germany and Italy—at least 70 percent of the young adults had traveled internationally in the last three years, and the majority spoke more than one language (in Sweden, 92 and 89 percent, respectively).

In the U.S. and Mexico only about 20 percent had traveled abroad during the same period and the majority spoke only one language.

To fight geographic ignorance, and apathy, among young people in the U.S. and around the world, the National Geographic Society will convene an international coalition of leaders in American business, education and media.

Next year the panel will recommend initiatives to policymakers in those areas—and to parents and children.

Spoken like a true New Yorker. Harumph.

Though the property taxes are a right pain in the ass.

Dude, I was watching the news on Channel 9 (Secaucus, yes?) and even they were saying they expect to lose 100,000 people by I think it was 2012.

http://blog.nj.com/njv_hughes_seneca/2007/10/new_jerseys_population_drain.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/10/nyregion/10migrate.html?ref=nyregionThe net number of people leaving New Jersey for other states has more than tripled since 2002, and if the trend continues, the state’s total population could dip next year for the first time in decades, researchers at Rutgers University are reporting today.

The pattern — caused in part by the growing number of retirees who move to Sun Belt states, and working families who seek better jobs and cheaper homes in North Carolina, Georgia and other Southern states — threatens to further erode the state’s wobbly economy.

“Young families raising children want to live in single-family homes, and that’s extraordinarily difficult to do in New Jersey,” said James W. Hughes, dean of the Edward J. Bloustein School of Planning and Public Policy at Rutgers and co-author, with Joseph J. Seneca, of the report, titled “Where Have All the Dollars Gone? An Analysis of New Jersey Migration Patterns.”

In 2006, 72,547 more people left New Jersey than arrived there, compared with 23,759 in 2002.

The departures to other states were partly offset by the arrival of immigrants from overseas. But overall, New Jersey’s population increased just 0.2 percent last year, making it one of the 10 slowest-growing states in the country.

From 2000 to 2005, 190,702 residents of New Jersey left for New York, including many empty nesters, people whose children have grown up and moved away. An additional 188,704 people — including many retirees — moved to Florida. Pennsylvania received 183,885 New Jersey residents, thanks to cheaper home prices and lower tax rates.

California, North Carolina, Virginia, Georgia and Texas were next among popular destinations.

The economic consequences of these departures are profound. The net adjusted gross income of those who left — total income minus deductions for contributions to retirement accounts and other items — was nearly $8 billion from 2000 to 2005. The loss of income — and consumer spending — led to 38,810 fewer jobs and $85.4 million less in state sales and income taxes.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=ainAqA2prMBo&refer=us
New Jersey’s loss of residents to other U.S. states more than tripled between 2002 and 2006, draining $10 billion in personal income from the economy and reducing tax revenue by $680 million, according to a Rutgers University report.

The number of people who left New Jersey exceeded those who moved in from other parts of the nation by 72,547 last year, the report by two Rutgers economists said. While there is no one reason for the losses, the state’s high costs, including housing, and improved economic opportunities elsewhere are possible explanations, the report said.

Unless New Jersey can reverse its population trend, the state’s fiscal crisis will persist, said James Hughes, dean of Rutgers’s Bloustein School of Planning and Public Policy in New Brunswick and co-author of the report. Treasury officials said yesterday that New Jersey faces a shortfall that may exceed $3 billion in the coming fiscal year.

“It’s worrisome,” said Hughes, who wrote the population report with Professor Joseph Seneca. “When you are talking about $10 billion less in income and $680 million in income and sales taxes, it’s going to be very hard to balance the state’s budget.”

http://www.nj.com/newsflash/jersey/index.ssf?/base/news-28/1191989963288670.xml&storylist=jersey
New Jersey’s accelerating population loss is starting to have significant economic and fiscal consequences for the state, according to a Rutgers University report that found the state may be becoming a less attractive locale.

The report found the state lost 231,565 people between 2002 and 2006, including 72,547 people last year. The latter was the fourth highest loss in the nation behind only California, Louisiana and New York.

Meanwhile, North Carolina grew by 807,000 people over the four-year period, displacing New Jersey last year as the nation’s 10th most populous state, the report stated.

When lost income and sales taxes from the people who left New Jersey are considered, the population drain is estimated to have cost the state $680 million in tax revenue last year, the report found.

That estimated loss comes with the state confronting annual budget deficits and struggling to meet billions of dollars in unmet needs. The projected budget deficit could be as large as $3.5 billion next year, according to Gov. Jon S. Corzine.

The Rutgers report was authored by James W. Hughes, dean of the Edward J. Bloustein School of Planning and Public Policy, and Joseph J. Seneca, a university professor.

“The population outflow is real, is approaching worrisome dimensions and is exerting a small, but increasingly negative impact on the New Jersey economy,” they wrote.

They said the reasons behind the state’s population loss were unclear.

You know, people leaving NJ might actually be a good thing.
1) I believe it's still the most densely populated state in the country.
2) There are WAY, WAAAAY too damn many of us Indians hear. There must certainly be enough of us concentrated in NJ now to enact our master plan of making you our slaves by addicting you to Indian food and spices, and then withholding them until our demands our met.
It is only a matter of time, now! MUAHAHAHAHAHA...


But don't worry, we'll keep some of you, especially LG, as pets.

I, for one, welcome our Indian food overlords....

pass the tikka masala and korma, please?

I recently watched an episode of Top Gear (see: British car show) in which they went to the US for a challenge (buy a car each for $1000 or less in Miami, then drive to New Orleans and try to sell them for more than that). Their trip, to sum it up, was TERRIBLE. In Miami, they were told not to go past 79th Street or they would definitely be murdered. Jeremy Clarkson said that in Miami, "the insects are annoying, it's full of fat people, old people, people who offer you cheese with everything and then shoot you".

In one challenge, they tried to get each other "arrested or shot" by painting slogans on their cars and driving through Alabama. Said slogans were "Country western is rubbish", "Hillary for President" and "Man-love rules". They ended up being chased out of town by hicks in a pickup throw rocks at them.

They got to New Orleans, and they wanted to sell their cars. But the city was still in absolute ruins from Hurricane Katrina. It felt wrong to sell them, so they ended up giving them away. Clarkson said "I don't know how the rest of America sleeps at night, knowing that this is here".

Is the US really that bad?

Yes we are horrible people please do not come visit us.

For the record, I don't hate Jersey. I've got family there.

I was just mentioning it's got the highest taxes around -- yes, higher than NY's.

And yeah, who drives to Midtown? PATH it and then take the Subway.

Europeans pride themselves on 'international travel'.

So? I can drive from Philly to Pittsburg and not leave PA, make that drive in Europe and you've crossed through three countries. Hell, drive across France and Germany and you haven't even gone halfway through Texas.

You can probably discount travel within Europe and Europeans would have made less international travel than Americans.

I recently watched an episode of Top Gear (see: British car show) in which they went to the US for a challenge (buy a car each for $1000 or less in Miami, then drive to New Orleans and try to sell them for more than that). Their trip, to sum it up, was TERRIBLE. In Miami, they were told not to go past 79th Street or they would definitely be murdered. Jeremy Clarkson said that in Miami, "the insects are annoying, it's full of fat people, old people, people who offer you cheese with everything and then shoot you".

In one challenge, they tried to get each other "arrested or shot" by painting slogans on their cars and driving through Alabama. Said slogans were "Country western is rubbish", "Hillary for President" and "Man-love rules". They ended up being chased out of town by hicks in a pickup throw rocks at them.

They got to New Orleans, and they wanted to sell their cars. But the city was still in absolute ruins from Hurricane Katrina. It felt wrong to sell them, so they ended up giving them away. Clarkson said "I don't know how the rest of America sleeps at night, knowing that this is here".

Is the US really that bad?

living here, i wish to god i could honestly say it was not. i would point out though that it was only one pickup truck full of 'hicks', NOT the whole town.

i don't think you will even find anywhere that everyone is all any one way. at least not in their dreams, wishes and intentions, and that any appearance of so being is a matter of going along to get along.

this is, or at least can be however, bad enough. it has enabled large scale economic interests to usurp the political proccess, with a certain degree of appearant near immunity to their deserved kharma .

=^^=
.../\...

No the US is not that bad, and no-one is really suggesting it is. Everywhere Top Gear goes they take the mickey out of it using the stereotypes of a place for comedic effect. They're not trying or pretending to be accurate, they're just trying to get a laugh, and often it's quite entertaining to watch.

First let me say I'm not siding with Ferrous Oxide but he is right:


That said the Americians on here no doubt can and also I doubt that many people here, in Canada could find Iraq on a map either.

Edit: Oh, look they did the same study in different places I couldn't find results for different countries but,

Notice how neither article tells you anything about how the study was done? What was the sample? How were the questions posed? Who was asked, and where? If you're stopped by a surveyor and you've got other more important things on your mind, how accurate will your response be?

Sorry, but one study without any delineation of the parameters and procedures convinces me of only one thing -- someone was looking for a big headline.

Notice how neither article tells you anything about how the study was done? What was the sample? How were the questions posed? Who was asked, and where? If you're stopped by a surveyor and you've got other more important things on your mind, how accurate will your response be?

Sorry, but one study without any delineation of the parameters and procedures convinces me of only one thing -- someone was looking for a big headline.


Honestly, with some of the statistics having others things on your mind is not an excuse especailly considering that "Thirty-four percent of the young Americans knew that the island used on last season's "Survivor" show was located in the South Pacific, but only 30 percent could locate the state of New Jersey on a map." http://archives.cnn.com/2002/EDUCATION/11/20/geography.quiz/ but, you are right, I didn't link properly, my bad.
a link to the survey: http://www.nationalgeographic.com/roper2006/pdf/FINALReport2006GeogLitsurvey.pdf

Surveys...

I did a survey myself, and found that 100% of all the surveys showing a frightening lack of geographical knowledge in the USA were in fact commissioned by organizations with an interest in increased spending on geography education.

Surveys...

I did a survey myself, and found that 100% of all the surveys showing a frightening lack of geographical knowledge in the USA were in fact commissioned by organizations with an interest in increased spending on geography education.

Well, those are the ones who tend to care enough to do a study. What part of their method do you disagree with in particular?

Well, those are the ones who tend to care enough to do a study. What part of their method do you disagree with in particular?

"There are lies, damned lies, and statistics."
Often attributed to Mark Twain; Quoted in Mark Twain, Autobiography, ch. 29, (1924), his exact words were: ‘The remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics”.’
-Benjamin Disraeli

http://quoteland.com

"There are lies, damned lies, and statistics."
Often attributed to Mark Twain; Quoted in Mark Twain, Autobiography, ch. 29, (1924), his exact words were: ‘The remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics”.’
-Benjamin Disraeli

http://quoteland.com

"A witty quotation proves nothing."

"A witty quotation proves nothing."

Can I quote you on that?

Can I quote you on that?

No, but you can quote Voltaire on that.;)


(Although, I think that you just did....)