NationStates Jolt Archive

I recently watched an episode of Top Gear (see: British car show) in which they went to the US for a challenge (buy a car each for $1000 or less in Miami, then drive to New Orleans and try to sell them for more than that). Their trip, to sum it up, was TERRIBLE. In Miami, they were told not to go past 79th Street or they would definitely be murdered. Jeremy Clarkson said that in Miami, "the insects are annoying, it's full of fat people, old people, people who offer you cheese with everything and then shoot you".

In one challenge, they tried to get each other "arrested or shot" by painting slogans on their cars and driving through Alabama. Said slogans were "Country western is rubbish", "Hillary for President" and "Man-love rules". They ended up being chased out of town by hicks in a pickup throw rocks at them.

They got to New Orleans, and they wanted to sell their cars. But the city was still in absolute ruins from Hurricane Katrina. It felt wrong to sell them, so they ended up giving them away. Clarkson said "I don't know how the rest of America sleeps at night, knowing that this is here".

Is the US really that bad?

While I'm sure they picked the worst examples to showcase, as it's tv, there still are some pretty bad parts of the States. As is so often the case, our ideals here don't so nicely match up to our realities. :(

In one challenge, they tried to get each other "arrested or shot" by painting slogans on their cars and driving through Alabama. Said slogans were "Country western is rubbish", "Hillary for President" and "Man-love rules". They ended up being chased out of town by hicks in a pickup throw rocks at them.
Wow, they went fishing for a negative reaction, and then they got one. What a surprise . . .
It's like when that Borat guy got punched in the face, if you wander around trying to piss people off, don't be surprised when they get a little pissed off.

Short answer: yes.
Miami isn't even the most violent city.

They got to New Orleans, and they wanted to sell their cars. But the city was still in absolute ruins from Hurricane Katrina. It felt wrong to sell them, so they ended up giving them away. Clarkson said "I don't know how the rest of America sleeps at night, knowing that this is here".

Is the US really that bad?
This part is true.

What happened to New Orleans is something that disgusts me more than I can express. The complete and utter failure on the part of our President and our government is a disgrace. It's something that I'm extremely upset and embarrassed about, as an American.

Wow, they went fishing for a negative reaction, and then they got one. What a surprise . . .
It's like when that Borat guy got punched in the face, if you wander around trying to piss people off, don't be surprised when they get a little pissed off.

Mate, if you went to the most conservative place in Australia and did that, you still wouldn't get more than laughs and dirty looks.

You should know how TV works, they were probably doing their best to find all the worst bits of the USA and to be provocative.

The last bit about New Orleans was probably the truest. From what I've seen there was little concern for Louisiana after Katrina - from both the government and the public. But even then one of the presenters paid for people to take his car away, another couldn't even manage that.

The show was meant to be entertaining, not informative. Keep that in mind. I did find it quite funny though. :)

<snip>

Yeah, I saw that episode too. It was pretty funny, but what do you expect from that area? There are of course other parts of the US where people would've cheered them on.

You should know how TV works, they were probably doing their best to find all the worst bits of the USA and to be provocative.

It didn't seem like they had to look very hard.

But even then one of the presenters paid for people to take his car away, another couldn't even manage that.

I remember that May couldn't give his away, and Jeremy ended up being SUED (truly American) because he said it was a '91 Camaro and it was an '89.

In one challenge, they tried to get each other "arrested or shot" by painting slogans on their cars and driving through Alabama. Said slogans were "Country western is rubbish", "Hillary for President" and "Man-love rules". They ended up being chased out of town by hicks in a pickup throw rocks at them.

Well that's one way to get a reaction. Yep. This was nothing more than a stunt. And a bad one at that.

Wow, they went fishing for a negative reaction, and then they got one. What a surprise . . .
It's like when that Borat guy got punched in the face, if you wander around trying to piss people off, don't be surprised when they get a little pissed off.

You're kidding, I assume?

You are defending people throwing rocks at people who do such terrible and unforgivable things as not opposing homosexuality, or - maybe, even worse - voting Democrat?

Come to South Africa!
We'll gang rape you, beat you to death and then sell all your possessions for tik!
And don't call the cops because they'll just ask you if you're sure you want them to follow up on your case, then go back to hiding in their police stations protected by armed response.

But we do have beautiful scenery and some of the nicest people around.

Point being: every country has its downside, but it also has its upside.
No matter what problems we have here I still love my country for the good things, and I try to do what I can to both avoid and prevent the bad.

That episode of Top Gear isn't new. There were threads about it -- I wanna say about a year ago, actually.

The US, just like any other country, has it's good and bad sides. What the show doesn't air is far more important than what they show you. If they're trying to provoke a reaction, they're not going to show you anything that paints THEM as going WAY out of their way to GET that reaction. They're going to make it look like they were being reasonable or playful instead of deliberately provocative.

In short, it's childish trolling/flamebaiting done on TV instead of NSG.

Indeed. Well said Intangelon.

That episode of Top Gear isn't new. There were threads about it -- I wanna say about a year ago, actually.

Yeah, we sorta have to look for them here in Australia, we get them off YouTube.

The US, just like any other country, has it's good and bad sides. What the show doesn't air is far more important than what they show you. If they're trying to provoke a reaction, they're not going to show you anything that paints THEM as going WAY out of their way to GET that reaction. They're going to make it look like they were being reasonable or playful instead of deliberately provocative.

Again, the fact that they were chased out of the town by hicks is pretty bad.

That episode of Top Gear isn't new. There were threads about it -- I wanna say about a year ago, actually.

The US, just like any other country, has it's good and bad sides. What the show doesn't air is far more important than what they show you. If they're trying to provoke a reaction, they're not going to show you anything that paints THEM as going WAY out of their way to GET that reaction. They're going to make it look like they were being reasonable or playful instead of deliberately provocative.

In short, it's childish trolling/flamebaiting done on TV instead of NSG.

Also, misrepresenting the goods bought or sold in a legal transaction is grounds for a lawsuit. Admittedly, the value of a 1990-era Camaro isn't exactly a lot, but you seem to think a suit is unwarranted. Well, to someone without a lot, "not a lot" can be a lot -- and therefore worth contesting. Again, not defending my suit-happy countrymen, but if there's grounds for a suit, why blame someone for using that option? Especially if they were getting the monetary shaft.

Now, if they went STRAIGHT to lawsuit without trying to talk the problem and resolve in themselves first, that's unreasonable. But again, we don't see the whole process, do we? Just what they edit and air.

It wasn't a sale, they gave it away! And they basically blackmail them, saying that the lawsuit would go away if they gave them $20000.

Again back at you -- we don't see the whole situation. Just what they chose to air.

They were chased out of a town by hicks! What could we possibly have missing? The redneck's attempts at diplomacy?

1. I was living in N.O. during Katrina, and I can tell you New Orleans and most of Louisiana is a total crap hole, the vast majority of the people there are uneducated and probably could be considered clinically retarded by most western standards. I heard gunshots on many nights in the year I lived there, and a kid I had met at the corner store was stabbed to death a few weeks after I met him. BUT it is a very fun city. The French Quarter is great, there's a lot of history there and great food. With all that said however...deep down...I have always wished Katrina would have cleansed more of the scum from the earth. The people in N.O. that they so generously gave the cars to have probably already sold them and spent the money on beer, drugs, and illegal firearms.

2.Anybody dumb and obnoxious enough to fly half way around the world to drive their cars through a foreign country waving signs that are specifically designed to annoy the locals deserves to be stoned and shot.

It didn't seem like they had to look very hard.



I remember that May couldn't give his away, and Jeremy ended up being SUED (truly American) because he said it was a '91 Camaro and it was an '89.

Well, golly. You mean that they wanted to portray Americans as nutty and reactive and it SEEMS like they did? Shocking.

Also, misrepresenting the goods bought or sold in a legal transaction is grounds for a lawsuit. Admittedly, the value of a 1990-era Camaro isn't exactly a lot, but you seem to think a suit is unwarranted. Well, to someone without a lot, "not a lot" can be a lot -- and therefore worth contesting. Again, not defending my suit-happy countrymen, but if there's grounds for a suit, why blame someone for using that option? Especially if they were getting the monetary shaft.

Now, if they went STRAIGHT to lawsuit without trying to talk the problem and resolve in themselves first, that's unreasonable. But again, we don't see the whole process, do we? Just what they edit and air.

Again, the fact that they were chased out of the town by hicks is pretty bad.

Again back at you -- we don't see the whole situation. Just what they chose to air.

Look, if you want to find things that make America look bad, there are far better things to look at than this engineered crap. Hell, even Jay Leno's "Jaywalking" segments (in which he asks ridiculously easy questions to people on the street and shows us the people who get them comically incorrect) are better than that Top Gear prurience.

It wasn't a sale, they gave it away! And they basically blackmail them, saying that the lawsuit would go away if they gave them $20000.

One...more...time....

We don't see the entire interaction, do we? No. We don't. Are there people like that in the US? Absolutely. Are they EVERYWHERE? Not remotely.

We missed what they said off camera. We may have even missed -- perish the thought :rolleyes: -- the part where the hicks were in on the joke.

That's probably a more accurate statement to make. The last part that is. FO? You lost. Give up.

They were chased out of a town by hicks! What could we possibly have missing? The redneck's attempts at diplomacy?

We missed what they said off camera. We may have even missed -- perish the thought :rolleyes: -- the part where the hicks were in on the joke.

One...more...time....

We don't see the entire interaction, do we? No. We don't. Are there people like that in the US? Absolutely. Are they EVERYWHERE? Not remotely.

I'm struggling to see any possible event that doesn't make sueing someone for getting the date of a car they're giving you free of charge the act of a total arse.

We missed what they said off camera. We may have even missed -- perish the thought :rolleyes: -- the part where the hicks were in on the joke.

Suing Top Gear would in that case be trivial.
Hell, Top Gear was sued for damaging a tree in Bristol, so it would hardly be a new thing for them ;)

2.Anybody dumb and obnoxious enough to fly half way around the world to drive their cars through a foreign country waving signs that are specifically designed to annoy the locals deserves to be stoned and shot.

Look at what you wrote here.

Anybody expressing their freedom of speech deserves to be stoned and shot.

Truly American?

Well, golly. You mean that they wanted to portray Americans as nutty and reactive and it SEEMS like they did? Shocking.

Also, misrepresenting the goods bought or sold in a legal transaction is grounds for a lawsuit. Admittedly, the value of a 1990-era Camaro isn't exactly a lot, but you seem to think a suit is unwarranted. Well, to someone without a lot, "not a lot" can be a lot -- and therefore worth contesting. Again, not defending my suit-happy countrymen, but if there's grounds for a suit, why blame someone for using that option? Especially if they were getting the monetary shaft.

Now, if they went STRAIGHT to lawsuit without trying to talk the problem and resolve in themselves first, that's unreasonable. But again, we don't see the whole process, do we? Just what they edit and air.

Bwhahahh really!

Hey you have this, it's free you can just take it and use it how you like.

Really gee thanks, say how long is it?

Well it's two feet.

Dude you lied to me, it's not two feet it's one and a half feet, I'm gonna sue.

Look at what you wrote here.

Anybody expressing their freedom of speech deserves to be stoned and shot.

Truly American?

I see that you are reading things that are not there. Typical for people of NSG.

I see that you are reading things that are not there. Typical for people of NSG.

"Annoying others" does fall under freedom of speech.

You're kidding, I assume?

You are defending people throwing rocks at people who do such terrible and unforgivable things as not opposing homosexuality, or - maybe, even worse - voting Democrat?
I think Fiddles was more upset about the 'Country music sucks' slogan. He's never been the same since Garth Brooks got fat(ter).

First of all, it is important to note that we are talking about Maimi. This was a city *well not always but that is another story for another day* that once put up signs of oranges on the interstate to let people know which exits were "safe" and which were not. Whether or not there is problem areas in the city there is a tendency for officials to claim that there is. The fact that it tends to be generally located around one ethnic population of the city might be revealing towards a tendency of bias on the part of some.

"Annoying others" does fall under freedom of speech.

And chasing them out does to. Of course, I have a feeling this portion was designed but meh.

I see that you are reading things that are not there. Typical for people of NSG.

Sorry what exactly did I read that was not there?

And chasing them out does to. Of course, I have a feeling this portion was designed but meh.

"Chasing out" is not the same as "peacefully expressing a controversial opinion", even if that opinion is only expressed to annoy.

You are defending people throwing rocks at people who do such terrible and unforgivable things as not opposing homosexuality, or - maybe, even worse - voting Democrat?
The cars still worked, nobody got seriously injured. Moreover, they went through the whole of Alabama like that, but only got chased out of one town. Who knows how many more people looked at their lame attempts to grab attention and simply rolled their eyes?
Well, the editors obviously know this, because they're the ones who cut those parts of film out because they didn't support the central claim that "zOMG USians R t3h suxxorss!!!"

Mainly, however, I am attack people who go "trolling IRL" and then whine about getting "flamed IRL."

Let me put it another way, then.

Anyone purposefully trying to get stoned or shot deserves to get stoned or shot for trying to incite violence in the first place.

Sound better?

Inciting a riot is not protected speech. These guys incited a riot (a planned one more than likely). They should have been thrown in jail. :D

I see that you are reading things that are not there. Typical for people of NSG.
And I see you've dropped the ball totally. Typical for people of Corneliu-land.

Look at what you wrote here.

Anybody expressing their freedom of speech deserves to be stoned and shot.

Truly American?

Let me put it another way, then.

Anyone purposefully trying to get stoned or shot deserves to get stoned or shot for trying to incite violence in the first place.

Sound better?

Television reality shows are highly edited. If you really think that Top Gear is a good source material for any belief you might have about an entire nation of people.....well, I guess you get what you get.

I think all children are brats because they are on Nanny 911, I think that all women are money grubbing whores because they are on the Bachelor, and I think all the people in Scotland are assholes who yell at everyone and say "fuck" a lot......because Gordon Ramsey does.

Let me put it another way, then.

Anyone purposefully trying to get stoned or shot deserves to get stoned or shot for trying to incite violence in the first place.

Sound better?
riggghhhht.
So saying you support a Democrat for President, gay rights or simply stating your opinion about a music genre is an act of provocation and violence and as such, you deserve to be stoned or shot.
In other words, utilising your freedom of speech.
Is that what you're saying?

Television reality shows are highly edited. If you really think that Top Gear is a good source material for any belief you might have about an entire nation of people.....well, I guess you get what you get.

I think all children are brats because they are on Nanny 911, I think that all women are money grubbing whores because they are on the Bachelor, and I think all the people in Scotland are assholes who yell at everyone and say "fuck" a lot......because Gordon Ramsey does.
ahhh...that last one is true though.

Remember kids, if you see it on television, it must be true.

Let me put it another way, then.

Anyone purposefully trying to get stoned or shot deserves to get stoned or shot for trying to incite violence in the first place.

Sound better?


Well that 'sounds' better, but I did watch the episode in question when it aired here last year. What they done was to paint slogans on each others cars.

The trouble started when they stop for petrol and the woman attendant took umbragde at one or perhaps all of the slogans and asked them 'do you want me to get the boy's the boys turned up in a truck and gave chase.

The slogans read, 'Man love rules' 'Hilary for president' and something along the lines of 'NAS car sucks'

Now none of these slogans said 'I want to be stoned and/or shot' So really they where not asking for either. The question that remains, and on that I think the OP was trying to get at is, Is this sort of behavior typical of America? I guess the OP asked it because(like myself) he/she just could not imagine it happening in his/her community.

It's a valid question, and note it is a question, not one that is answered by pissed off Americans coming here and shouting, I mean that only enforces any negative stereotype of Americans that the OP may have.

ahhh...that last one is true though.

I will be sure to tell my grandmother......I never once heard her say fuck or yell at anyone......maybe she is a pod person :eek:




:p

I will be sure to tell my grandmother......I never once heard her say fuck or yell at anyone......maybe she is a pod person :eek:




:p
She's prob been saying it all this time, but in the cute wee way Scots speak, you didn't know it was, 'Fuck'.
;)

I recently watched an episode of Top Gear (see: British car show) in which they went to the US for a challenge (buy a car each for $1000 or less in Miami, then drive to New Orleans and try to sell them for more than that). Their trip, to sum it up, was TERRIBLE. In Miami, they were told not to go past 79th Street or they would definitely be murdered. Jeremy Clarkson said that in Miami, "the insects are annoying, it's full of fat people, old people, people who offer you cheese with everything and then shoot you".

In one challenge, they tried to get each other "arrested or shot" by painting slogans on their cars and driving through Alabama. Said slogans were "Country western is rubbish", "Hillary for President" and "Man-love rules". They ended up being chased out of town by hicks in a pickup throw rocks at them.

They got to New Orleans, and they wanted to sell their cars. But the city was still in absolute ruins from Hurricane Katrina. It felt wrong to sell them, so they ended up giving them away. Clarkson said "I don't know how the rest of America sleeps at night, knowing that this is here".

Is the US really that bad?

You do realize reality TV strongly lacks reality?

1. I was living in N.O. during Katrina, and I can tell you New Orleans and most of Louisiana is a total crap hole, the vast majority of the people there are uneducated and probably could be considered clinically retarded by most western standards. I heard gunshots on many nights in the year I lived there, and a kid I had met at the corner store was stabbed to death a few weeks after I met him. BUT it is a very fun city. The French Quarter is great, there's a lot of history there and great food. With all that said however...deep down...I have always wished Katrina would have cleansed more of the scum from the earth. The people in N.O. that they so generously gave the cars to have probably already sold them and spent the money on beer, drugs, and illegal firearms.

2.Anybody dumb and obnoxious enough to fly half way around the world to drive their cars through a foreign country waving signs that are specifically designed to annoy the locals deserves to be stoned and shot.
QFT!

riggghhhht.
So saying you support a Democrat for President, gay rights or simply stating your opinion about a music genre is an act of provocation and violence and as such, you deserve to be stoned or shot.
In other words, utilising your freedom of speech.
Is that what you're saying?

They were trying to incite violence against themselves and the only thing they claimed they did was to put slogans on their cars. Do you really think that's the entire story? For that matter, do you really trust "reality" shows to show reality?

I'm saying they probably did much more then drive through towns with painted slogans to get someone to chase them off, but they just made it look like it was the slogans. People here seem so willing to believe Americans are a hypocritical bunch about freedom of speech, but they are relying on one incredibly biased source for the whole story, much less acting indignant that someone pulling a stupid stunt designed to incite violence actually (gasp!) got a violent reaction. I thought posters here took a dimmer view of stupidity like that.

They were trying to incite violence against themselves and the only thing they claimed they did was to put slogans on their cars. Do you really think that's the entire story? For that matter, do you really trust "reality" shows to show reality?

I'm saying they probably did much more then drive through towns with painted slogans to get someone to chase them off, but they just made it look like it was the slogans. People here seem so willing to believe Americans are a hypocritical bunch about freedom of speech, but they are relying on one incredibly biased source for the whole story, much less acting indignant that someone pulling a stupid stunt designed to incite violence actually (gasp!) got a violent reaction. I thought posters here took a dimmer view of stupidity like that.

Heh it is not a reality show for starters, and yes they painted slogans on their cars then drove. Agian though I'm quite surprised by the heat I can feel. The OP did not suggest, did not proclaim, but asked a question. What you are doing by your responses is enforcing any negative opinion people may have.

I'm saying they probably did much more then drive through towns with painted slogans to get someone to chase them off, but they just made it look like it was the slogans.

Like what? Is "I think they might have done something else as well" really your best argument?

It didn't seem like they had to look very hard.
Seem. That's exactly it. You aren't seeing the hours of research to find the most sensational place to begin and end their journey, the out takes of people not saying outrageous things, or the set-ups.



I remember that May couldn't give his away, and Jeremy ended up being SUED (truly American) because he said it was a '91 Camaro and it was an '89.
Did he really though? Or was it just part of the story?
Yeah, we sorta have to look for them here in Australia, we get them off YouTube.

Again, the fact that they were chased out of the town by hicks is pretty bad.
And how do you know it wasn't a set-up? It's fairly common for reality TV makers to set a scene up, get the locals involed, ect.

Keep in mind, this is a pretty real show. Once, they turned regular cars into stretch limos, then used those atrocious limos to chauffeur some very real celebrities to a very real music industry event.

Did he really though? Or was it just part of the story?

I'd be extremely surprised if they made it up. Top Gear doesn't have a story.

While Top Gear is one of my favourite shows, it's not a very good source if you want to know anything accurate about something other then cars. You'd be surprised how scripted the show is at times.

Heh it is not a reality show for starters, and yes they painted slogans on their cars then drove. Agian though I'm quite surprised by the heat I can feel. The OP did not suggest, did not proclaim, but asked a question. What you are doing by your responses is enforcing any negative opinion people may have.
Maybe Americans are just tired of being targeted by every jackass, wanna-be social commentator with a video camera and some editing equipment?
Yes, that's right, we're all a bunch of inbred hicks who live in hellish waste-lands that have never been repaired since being leveled by natural disasters. We also belong to gangs and hate kikes, gays and niggers. We tell racist jokes to one another while we abuse our servants at fancy country clubs. We're also poor, though, and eat nothing but McDonalds.

And "Is the US really this bad?" isn't just a casual question. Whenever someone asks "Is X really this/that Y?" the question is rhetorical. As in, "Is he really that stupid?"

Well that 'sounds' better, but I did watch the episode in question when it aired here last year. What they done was to paint slogans on each others cars.

The trouble started when they stop for petrol and the woman attendant took umbragde at one or perhaps all of the slogans and asked them 'do you want me to get the boy's the boys turned up in a truck and gave chase.

The slogans read, 'Man love rules' 'Hilary for president' and something along the lines of 'NAS car sucks'

Now none of these slogans said 'I want to be stoned and/or shot' So really they where not asking for either. The question that remains, and on that I think the OP was trying to get at is, Is this sort of behavior typical of America? I guess the OP asked it because(like myself) he/she just could not imagine it happening in his/her community.

It's a valid question, and note it is a question, not one that is answered by pissed off Americans coming here and shouting, I mean that only enforces any negative stereotype of Americans that the OP may have.

Of course I'm a little pissed off here. I'd like to think people would look at a reality show and approach with skepticism rather than taking it as accurate. More than anything else, trying to take that challenge of getting "arrested or shot" as some sort of exercise of free speech is really going too far. They got the reaction they wanted, but all we saw them do was what they showed us, and very few people here seem to be wondering what was left out, or even if the gas station they pulled into wasn't part of a scripted event.

Most Americans aren't assholes that would chase people in a pick-up truck for a stupid painted slogan. The coincidence of these guys coming to the country and finding a group willing to oblige them, much less while armed with nothing more dangerous than rocks, is the sort of thing a reality show would obviously script. I would have thought people gave Americans a little more credit than that, but obviously I thought wrong.

Maybe Americans are just tired of being targeted by every jackass, wanna-be social commentator with a video camera and some editing equipment?
Yes, that's right, we're all a bunch of inbred hicks who live in hellish waste-lands that have never been repaired since being leveled by natural disasters. We also belong to gangs and hate kikes, gays and niggers. We tell racist jokes to one another while we abuse our servants at fancy country clubs. We're also poor, though, and eat nothing but McDonalds.

And "Is the US really this bad?" isn't just a casual question. Whenever someone asks "Is X really this/that Y?" the question is rhetorical. As in, "Is he really that stupid?"

Yeah, but the thing is; I've never actually heard anything GOOD about the United States. It just doesn't seem like a very good country.

Clarkson said that in America, "everybody is very fat, and everybody is very stupid, and everybody is very rude". And I really haven't seen much evidence to the contrary.

And you have imitation American cheese on your ham and cheese sandwiches! American cheese is imitation cheese in the first place! That's basically imitation imitation cheese!

I will be sure to tell my grandmother......I never once heard her say fuck or yell at anyone......maybe she is a pod person :eek:




:p

OR she's not really Scottish!:eek:

Of course I'm a little pissed off here. I'd like to think people would look at a reality show and approach with skepticism rather than taking it as accurate. More than anything else, trying to take that challenge of getting "arrested or shot" as some sort of exercise of free speech is really going too far. They got the reaction they wanted, but all we saw them do was what they showed us, and very few people here seem to be wondering what was left out, or even if the gas station they pulled into wasn't part of a scripted event.

Most Americans aren't assholes that would chase people in a pick-up truck for a stupid painted slogan. The coincidence of these guys coming to the country and finding a group willing to oblige them, much less while armed with nothing more dangerous than rocks, is the sort of thing a reality show would obviously script. I would have thought people gave Americans a little more credit than that, but obviously I thought wrong.


Well first off again it isn't a reality show, it is a show about cars. The actual segment of the show that caused this was really only a small piece of the show. Admitedly Top Gear and it's presenters can be rather silly at times, and this was a silly idea.

I must stress that they drove on the roads and motorways with hardly a funny look(although they did get a few) it was only when they stopped in whatever town they stopped in to fill up with petrol that the problem happened.

Have you seen the footage? It looked real to me, I work in TV, it did not look scripted, the fear and shock in the faces of the presenters seemed genuine, and the actual footage that we are talking about, well you don't see much as the camera man is clear concentrating on running instead of filming.

As I say I work in the TV industry and to not get quality film footage is one of the biggest sins. If this really was a setup I would have expected to see more of the mob and less of the camaremans running feet.

Have you visited the US?

No. My mother always told me not to because I'd be shot.

No. My mother always told me not to because I'd be shot.

Then your mother is a god damn fool and so are you.

Heh it is not a reality show for starters, and yes they painted slogans on their cars then drove. Agian though I'm quite surprised by the heat I can feel. The OP did not suggest, did not proclaim, but asked a question. What you are doing by your responses is enforcing any negative opinion people may have.

Really, you're certain that's all they did? Just paint slogans and drive? They couldn't have just edited or even scripted the sequence to make it look like that was all they did?

My response was directly to you, not the OP. You're post was suggested that all that took place was a violent reaction to free speech, while I'm suggesting that they went looking for a violent reaction and only showed the painted slogans to make it look like a reaction to free speech. We don't know what was left out of the show, we don't know that the event was even spontaneous and unscripted, yet people are coming down hard on the side of the television show as a good source on the behavior of Americans. If people take something negative from my suggestions, then they can feel free to come here and actually experience the country rather than getting it filtered through a television show or internet forum.

Really, you're certain that's all they did? Just paint slogans and drive? They couldn't have just edited or even scripted the sequence to make it look like that was all they did?

My response was directly to you, not the OP. You're post was suggested that all that took place was a violent reaction to free speech, while I'm suggesting that they went looking for a violent reaction and only showed the painted slogans to make it look like a reaction to free speech. We don't know what was left out of the show, we don't know that the event was even spontaneous and unscripted, yet people are coming down hard on the side of the television show as a good source on the behavior of Americans. If people take something negative from my suggestions, then they can feel free to come here and actually experience the country rather than getting it filtered through a television show or internet forum.

Well my post that you replied to was itself in reply to the poster who said in not so many words that those who excersie freedom of speech should get stoned and shot.

Obviously as a levelheaded human I wanted to address this.

Yeah, but the thing is; I've never actually heard anything GOOD about the United States. It just doesn't seem like a very good country.

Clarkson said that in America, "everybody is very fat, and everybody is very stupid, and everybody is very rude". And I really haven't seen much evidence to the contrary.

And you have imitation American cheese on your ham and cheese sandwiches! American cheese is imitation cheese in the first place! That's basically imitation imitation cheese!
Hi. I'm not fat, I'm at a top university, and fairly polite. I'm also American.

Wide brush tends to fail.

And just because you choose to be ignorant about the US does not mean there is nothing good here. Currently, our most obese state has 1/3 of the population considered overweight. That means 2/3 are average or underweight. I will say that again.
Our most obese state has a full 2/3 of its population considered average or underweight. That is a majority.

We are not all conservative. We don't all hate the gays. We aren't all rude. We aren't all the "ugly American". We don't all hate the French. We don't all like the idea of "freedom fries". We don't all mindlessly support the president. If anything, posting on an American-dominated board should reveal some of this. Many of us are highly educated, intelligent, rational, polite, civilized, healthy, and everything else contradictory to your narrow world view and prejudices.

YIt just doesn't seem like a very good country.

America is a good country, but it isn't as good as Japan, and Japan isn't as good as Canada, and Canada isn't as good as Sweden, and Sweden isn't as good as Ireland, and Ireland isn't as good as Australia, and Australia isn't as good as Iceland, and Iceland isn't as good as Norway. :p

Yeah, but the thing is; I've never actually heard anything GOOD about the United States. It just doesn't seem like a very good country.

Clarkson said that in America, "everybody is very fat, and everybody is very stupid, and everybody is very rude". And I really haven't seen much evidence to the contrary.

And you have imitation American cheese on your ham and cheese sandwiches! American cheese is imitation cheese in the first place! That's basically imitation imitation cheese!

Have you visited the US?

If people take something negative from my suggestions, then they can feel free to come here and actually experience the country rather than getting it filtered through a television show or internet forum.

I've been. What I saw completely reinforced the version of events given in Top Gear, sorry. I saw the episode, and yes, while they do script their studio show, the segments filmed in the US looked complete in and of themselves and quite believable.

You're perfectly entitled to feel angry because although your country on the whole is populated with polite well behaved human beings, the people that Top Gear went looking for, and found, do actually exist, and in decent numbers.

Sorry about that.

No. My mother always told me not to because I'd be shot.

So basically, you call Americans ignorant when, ironically enough, you are the ignorant one?

Quite interesting.

Clarkson said that in America, "everybody is very fat, and everybody is very stupid, and everybody is very rude". And I really haven't seen much evidence to the contrary.


He was being humorous. It's no more valid to say that then to say Australia is very boring. Some parts of America are absolutely amazing, some parts of America are pretty shitty. What you have to remember is, America is a big place and populated almost all over (unlike Australia). When you have that many people, there will always be violent, scummy places. Its the same with any country, if you drove a car in a council estate in Britain saying "get to work, labour shouldn't be forcing us to pay benefits for you lazy sods!", I assure you that the same reaction will most like result.

Maybe Americans are just tired of being targeted by every jackass, wanna-be social commentator with a video camera and some editing equipment?
Yes, that's right, we're all a bunch of inbred hicks who live in hellish waste-lands that have never been repaired since being leveled by natural disasters. We also belong to gangs and hate kikes, gays and niggers. We tell racist jokes to one another while we abuse our servants at fancy country clubs. We're also poor, though, and eat nothing but McDonalds.

And "Is the US really this bad?" isn't just a casual question. Whenever someone asks "Is X really this/that Y?" the question is rhetorical. As in, "Is he really that stupid?"

I don't think that many non Americans here actually think that about America or Americans, nor do I believe that is true for the majority of my own country men.

Yes the question was from a place of ignorance, and and can be seen in the same light as asking a black man 'is it true all black men are muggers'

But I don't think there was the intent of insult in it, and so I believe that the question was asked to rid the OP of ignorance, and to show the incredulousness he/she obviously felt at what was seen on the show.

On the whole though(and perhaps this is just me) I don't understand why people take perceived insult to their country so to heart?

No. My mother always told me not to because I'd be shot.
She's right. We have gangs roaming the countryside looking for tourists who support political candidates that will (in all likelihood) be the next president of the United States. I can't tell you how many times they've attacked my house, dragging me out of my home at night and chasing me down the street as they toss rocks at me. :mp5:

America is a good country, but it isn't as good as Japan, and Japan isn't as good as Canada, and Canada isn't as good as Sweden, and Sweden isn't as good as Ireland, and Ireland isn't as good as Australia, and Australia isn't as good as Iceland, and Iceland isn't as good as Norway. :p

Apparently, Iceland and Sweden have the highest crime rates in the world, first and second respectively.

Then again, this map is extremely dodgy.

He was being humorous. It's no more valid to say that then to say Australia is very boring. Some parts of America are absolutely amazing, some parts of America are pretty shitty. What you have to remember is, America is a big place and populated almost all over (unlike Australia). When you have that many people, there will always be violent, scummy places. Its the same with any country, if you drove a car in a council estate in Britain saying "get to work, labour shouldn't be forcing us to pay benefits for you lazy sods!", I assure you that the same reaction will most like result.

... Australia IS very boring.

... Australia IS very boring.

Yeah, but thats besides the point! :p

So basically, you call Americans ignorant when, ironically enough, you are the ignorant one?

Quite interesting.

Hey, at least I know where Iraq is. I KNOW what military quagmires my country gets involved in.

On the whole though(and perhaps this is just me) I don't understand why people take perceived insult to their country so to heart?

Because this isn't an insult to country, nor to our government. It is an insult directed at every person who considers themselves "American". It is basically saying that, because of where I live, I am considered stupid, fat, intolerant, rude, etc.

... Australia IS very boring.

Heh and they also can't play rugby!:D

Hey, at least I know where Iraq is. I KNOW what military quagmires my country gets involved in.

...I know where Iraq is. Thanks.

Clarkson said that in America, "everybody is very fat, and everybody is very stupid, and everybody is very rude". And I really haven't seen much evidence to the contrary.
Have you ever thought that maybe everyone is rude to you because you keep calling them fat and stupid?

Apparently, Iceland and Sweden have the highest crime rates in the world, first and second respectively.

Then again, this map is extremely dodgy.

I was making a joking reference to the HDI, however I do consider it a valuable ranking system. Out of curiosity, you're not thinking about suicides are you?

No, his post suggested that anyone who visits another country and drives around trying to get a violent reaction deserved what ever violent reaction they get. In this case, they were literally trying to get themselves arrested or shot, and you tried to turn it into some question of free speech. Sure, you're free to say what you want to someone, but being free to say it doesn't protect you from the consequences, especially if you're trying for a violent reaction.

... Isn't it ILLEGAL to assault people in the United States?

Hey, at least I know where Iraq is. I KNOW what military quagmires my country gets involved in.

Is that a CNNNN reference?

...I know where Iraq is. Thanks.

Well, I'm glad you do. Because the average America definitely does not.

Is that a CNNNN reference?

No, although I've seen that episode. I've actually read reports saying that most Americans don't know where Iraq is.

No, his post suggested that anyone who visits another country and drives around trying to get a violent reaction deserved what ever violent reaction they get. In this case, they were literally trying to get themselves arrested or shot, and you tried to turn it into some question of free speech. Sure, you're free to say what you want to someone, but being free to say it doesn't protect you from the consequences, especially if you're trying for a violent reaction.

I'll not argue about the exact words, but what he said DID mean that if you exercerise your free speech then you deserve to get stoned and shot.

Go ahead and re-read it, that is what he said.

Hey, at least I know where Iraq is. I KNOW what military quagmires my country gets involved in.

Hey so do I. Guess what? I'm an American and proud to be one. come over to my house sometime. I'll show you America that you mommy does not want you to see.

"And just because you choose to be ignorant about the US does not mean there is nothing good here. Currently, our most obese state has 1/3 of the population considered overweight. That means 2/3 are average or underweight. I will say that again."

And we are now slimmer than the Germans, Kuwaitis, Saudis, and UAE... what the hell do you call those people, Emiratians? Whatever. Oh, and a bunch of the little island nations like Nauru and Tonga and Micronesia... do they count? All fatter. And Australia has caught up to the US.

On the other hand, this is probably more a matter of them fattening up than us losing the weight.

Now this is a hoot: In the 3rd world, overweight is becoming more of a problem than underweight for women!

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/81/3/714?ck=nck

Request from a developing nation, sometime in the future: "Stop sending us food. Sally Struthers and that gang from the UN just eat it all anyway. Send Aerobicize instructers"

Well my post that you replied to was itself in reply to the poster who said in not so many words that those who excersie freedom of speech should get stoned and shot.

Obviously as a levelheaded human I wanted to address this.

No, his post suggested that anyone who visits another country and drives around trying to get a violent reaction deserved what ever violent reaction they get. In this case, they were literally trying to get themselves arrested or shot, and you tried to turn it into some question of free speech. Sure, you're free to say what you want to someone, but being free to say it doesn't protect you from the consequences, especially if you're trying for a violent reaction.

... Isn't it ILLEGAL to assault people in the United States?

Yea it is illegal to assault people. What of it?

Well, I'm glad you do. Because the average America definitely does not.

Yet again showing that the wide brush method generally fails.

Well, I'm glad you do. Because the average America definitely does not.
Right. The average American is too busy reading tabloids and eating McDonald's to care.

Every single person I know is well aware of where Iraq is and how bad the situation is there. Do you actually believe this or are you just having fun? :p

Ok everyone realises that as funny as it is, most of top gear is staged.
Most of the things that 'go wrong' are actually planned to be like that. The hick woman for example, who said she was 'getting her boys' on them, was probably an actor, or the real gas station owner, who was asked before hand to shout at them.

Can you link to your source of information?

Sorry, I read that thing, like, two years ago.

Well, I'm glad you do. Because the average America definitely does not.

Can you link to your source of information?

I have re-read it, and his post wasn't about freedom of speech, it was about people trying get negative reactions deserving what they got. Read into it all you want, it's about the consequences of pissing people off, not how you go about it.

See, there's your entire country's exact problem! They DIDN'T deserve what they got, because it's free speech and throwing rocks at people is called assault, which is illegal.

I'll not argue about the exact words, but what he said DID mean that if you exercerise your free speech then you deserve to get stoned and shot.

Go ahead and re-read it, that is what he said.

I have re-read it, and his post wasn't about freedom of speech, it was about people trying get negative reactions deserving what they got. Read into it all you want, it's about the consequences of pissing people off, not how you go about it.

Without a link to a reputable survey I don't think many people will take your word for it

Most people wouldn't take my word for it anyway.

Send a TV show to a different country - tell the producers what to look for or provoke and then return with the film - cut it out of context and tada! you have proved your point.

Perhaps rather than looking at shows that perpetuate stereotypes, you should come over here yourself and take a look around. Yes, you can find bad if that is all you want to see. You can also find people who give up their time and money to help with rebuilding homes in Katrina. People who will smile and say hello when the meet a stranger walking down the street and many who will step up immediately to help a person in need.

All I am saying is you can send a TV crew out to film what is great in America and they will come back with video to support that claim, or, like this show, you can send out a crew to show what is awful. The question really is not whether the show should be impartial or not, but why you are watching something like that in the first place.

"And just because you choose to be ignorant about the US does not mean there is nothing good here. Currently, our most obese state has 1/3 of the population considered overweight. That means 2/3 are average or underweight. I will say that again."

And we are now slimmer than the Germans, Kuwaitis, Saudis, and UAE... what the hell do you call those people, Emiratians? Whatever. Oh, and a bunch of the little island nations like Nauru and Tonga and Micronesia... do they count? All fatter. And Australia has caught up to the US.

On the other hand, this is probably more a matter of them fattening up than us losing the weight.

Now this is a hoot: In the 3rd world, overweight is becoming more of a problem than underweight for women!

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/81/3/714?ck=nck

Request from a developing nation, sometime in the future: "Stop sending us food. Sally Struthers and that gang from the UN just eat it all anyway. Send Aerobicize instructers"

Can you link to that?

Sorry, I read that thing, like, two years ago.

Without a link to a reputable survey I don't think many people will take your word for it

Parts of the US are bad. Most are not. Just as parts of any country are bad, most are not. And, of course, they did their damnedest to elicit negative reactions. Imagine if I drove through London's Eastend with an insulting comment written all over my car. Or, as a female, through Riyadh proclaiming myself to be an Israeli.

No, in the main, we are not bad at all.

Of course if, at this time of year, you go through Denver and proclaim that you are a Raider's fan, you might get egged.

Come to Boston and claim you're a Yankee's fan. It'll be fun ;)

Of course if, at this time of year, you go through Denver and proclaim that you are a Raider's fan, you might get egged.

That's anytime of year though we do respect eachother in much the sameway that Cleveland and Pittsburgh hate one another but yet respect eachother to.

Most people wouldn't take my word for it anyway.

Possibly due to the way you revel in generalisations without proof

Parts of the US are bad. Most are not. Just as parts of any country are bad, most are not. And, of course, they did their damnedest to elicit negative reactions. Imagine if I drove through London's Eastend with an insulting comment written all over my car. Or, as a female, through Riyadh proclaiming myself to be an Israeli.

No, in the main, we are not bad at all.

Of course if, at this time of year, you go through Denver and proclaim that you are a Raider's fan, you might get egged.

I have re-read it, and his post wasn't about freedom of speech, it was about people trying get negative reactions deserving what they got. Read into it all you want, it's about the consequences of pissing people off, not how you go about it.

Well what ever, if you can't see it, then I guess ya can't see it.

What the fuck were they doing in Miami and New Orleans? To be blunt, yes. Black communities are a perfect place to go if you have a deathwish. Most black people are decent citizend, but the one's who aren't will shoot ya. And it only takes one bullet to kill ya.

It wasn't black people attacking them.

Parts of the US are bad. Most are not. Just as parts of any country are bad, most are not. And, of course, they did their damnedest to elicit negative reactions. Imagine if I drove through London's Eastend with an insulting comment written all over my car. Or, as a female, through Riyadh proclaiming myself to be an Israeli.

No, in the main, we are not bad at all.

Of course if, at this time of year, you go through Denver and proclaim that you are a Raider's fan, you might get egged.

And thats an answer, not a knee jerk, 'what you say about my country' reaction.

Yeah I agree with you, don't know the first thing about American football though, but if I imagine a London footie derby with Tottenham and Arsenal, then yep yep I get the picture!

Well what ever, if you can't see it, then I guess ya can't see it.

either that or you are reading something that is not there as you have been doing throughout the thread. Alwell. I guess if you can't see it then I guess ya can't see it.

I recently watched an episode of Top Gear (see: British car show) in which they went to the US for a challenge (buy a car each for $1000 or less in Miami, then drive to New Orleans and try to sell them for more than that). Their trip, to sum it up, was TERRIBLE. In Miami, they were told not to go past 79th Street or they would definitely be murdered. Jeremy Clarkson said that in Miami, "the insects are annoying, it's full of fat people, old people, people who offer you cheese with everything and then shoot you".

In one challenge, they tried to get each other "arrested or shot" by painting slogans on their cars and driving through Alabama. Said slogans were "Country western is rubbish", "Hillary for President" and "Man-love rules". They ended up being chased out of town by hicks in a pickup throw rocks at them.

They got to New Orleans, and they wanted to sell their cars. But the city was still in absolute ruins from Hurricane Katrina. It felt wrong to sell them, so they ended up giving them away. Clarkson said "I don't know how the rest of America sleeps at night, knowing that this is here".

Is the US really that bad?


What the fuck were they doing in Miami and New Orleans? To be blunt, yes. Black communities are a perfect place to go if you have a deathwish. Most black people are decent citizend, but the one's who aren't will shoot ya. And it only takes one bullet to kill ya.

What the fuck were they doing in Miami and New Orleans? To be blunt, yes. Black communities are a perfect place to go if you have a deathwish. Most black people are decent citizend, but the one's who aren't will shoot ya. And it only takes one bullet to kill ya.Have you actually lived in black ethnic area? I have. I find your comment to be ignorant at best. Exactly the same could be said about white ethnic areas. Or even that parents who raise their children in areas with lots of when are just inviting their children to be molested by paedophiles because most paedophiles are male.

edit: How did I manage to timewarp myself?

riggghhhht.
So saying you support a Democrat for President, gay rights or simply stating your opinion about a music genre is an act of provocation and violence and as such, you deserve to be stoned or shot.
In other words, utilising your freedom of speech.
Is that what you're saying?You must remember that they were competing to get each other shot at or arrested.

So saying if someone is deliberately trying to get shot deserves to get shot... well...

You can argue about the reasons that they were shot at, but not the motives of the idiot.

either that or you are reading something that is not there as you have been doing throughout the thread. Alwell. I guess if you can't see it then I guess ya can't see it.

Really? You really gonna make me spell it out to ya huh?

Okay well then:

He said:

'1. I was living in N.O. during Katrina, and I can tell you New Orleans and most of Louisiana is a total crap hole, the vast majority of the people there are uneducated and probably could be considered clinically retarded by most western standards. I heard gunshots on many nights in the year I lived there, and a kid I had met at the corner store was stabbed to death a few weeks after I met him. BUT it is a very fun city. The French Quarter is great, there's a lot of history there and great food. With all that said however...deep down...I have always wished Katrina would have cleansed more of the scum from the earth. The people in N.O. that they so generously gave the cars to have probably already sold them and spent the money on beer, drugs, and illegal firearms.

2.Anybody dumb and obnoxious enough to fly half way around the world to drive their cars through a foreign country waving signs that are specifically designed to annoy the locals deserves to be stoned and shot.'

I've posted the whole of it so that I can't be accused of fiddling with context.(Watch out for that word CONTEXT, it is very important) Although it is only number 2 that I want to concentrate on.

Within the context of the program, these signs designed to annoy the locals were 'Man love rules' 'NAScar Sucks' and 'Hilary for president'

All of these except perhaps the one about NAScar can be taken as political statements or statements of solidarity with gay rights or a politician.

That they annoyed the locals is largely immaterial, what is important is the fact that these 'signs' are hardly incentment to violence. Even if they where, the right of the people to have them, and show them and say the actual words is a right garenteed by freedom of speech.

To declare that anybody who shows one of these signs in order to annoy the locals deserves to be stoned and shot, is in fact declaring that anybody who practices free speech which winds up the locals deserves to be stoned and shot.

Yeah I agree with you, don't know the first thing about American football though, but if I imagine a London footie derby with Tottenham and Arsenal, then yep yep I get the picture!

Ok, let's be fair, football's different. Supports of some clubs, which I won't name here, are absolute dicks.

I see that you are reading things that are not there. Typical for people of NSG.

Thanks. That made me laugh. You'd be one of the "people of NSG", wouldn't you?

Ok, let's be fair, football's different. Supports of some clubs, which I won't name here, are absolute dicks.

You're thinking of West Ham aint'cha! You may as well say it, I know you are!

Keep in mind, this is a pretty real show. Once, they turned regular cars into stretch limos, then used those atrocious limos to chauffeur some very real celebrities to a very real music industry event.

They build real cars that get used for real events, it doesn't make the whole show based in reality. They did a schtick. That whole episode was a gimmick. Would people really watch the show if they bought their cars, drove silently from Miami to New Orleans, then sold their cars to two people who happily bought them? Of course not! They picked the city where Katrina hit on purpose, that's the first clue that the whole things a gimmick. The entire world knew Katrina happened and it's gross mismanagement, the city is in ruins, why else would they pick that city? Why not drive from Las Vegas to LA? Salt Lake City to Casper? They had a very specific reason for picking the cities they picked.

It's like American Chopper. Sure, the bikes they build are very, very real. Bought by real celebrities most of the time. But all the drama and back biting are made up devices.

There's only so much your average TV viewer is going to care about a show where cars, motorcycles or whatever are built. They have to have a bigger gimmick built in to make a show like that successful. Niche shows fail. A show about cars being built is a niche show. They have to have something more to get people to tune in.

You're thinking of West Ham aint'cha! You may as well say it, I know you are!

No, actually. I mean the other red ones. With white shorts.

Come to Boston and claim you're a Yankee's fan. It'll be fun ;)

You'd just be laughed at now.

Yeah, but the thing is; I've never actually heard anything GOOD about the United States. It just doesn't seem like a very good country.

Clarkson said that in America, "everybody is very fat, and everybody is very stupid, and everybody is very rude". And I really haven't seen much evidence to the contrary.

And you have imitation American cheese on your ham and cheese sandwiches! American cheese is imitation cheese in the first place! That's basically imitation imitation cheese!

So there it is. You are convinced there's nothing good about America already. You saw something that proved it in your mind. Now you are posting this thread for what?

<snip snip>

Is the US really that bad?

Yes ... the US is really this bad. We're horrible people and I'll chase you outta my town if you don't like my chesse or country music. So please, don't ever come here if you value your life. /sarcasm

If you believe all of that and more, then I've got a bridge I want to sell you. :rolleyes:

You'd just be laughed at now.

True.
Honestly, despite my hatred of baseball, there is little more satisfying than being on the T and randomly yelling "Fuck the Yankees" and having the entire car join in the cheer.

Well first off again it isn't a reality show, it is a show about cars. The actual segment of the show that caused this was really only a small piece of the show. Admitedly Top Gear and it's presenters can be rather silly at times, and this was a silly idea.

I must stress that they drove on the roads and motorways with hardly a funny look(although they did get a few) it was only when they stopped in whatever town they stopped in to fill up with petrol that the problem happened.

Have you seen the footage? It looked real to me, I work in TV, it did not look scripted, the fear and shock in the faces of the presenters seemed genuine, and the actual footage that we are talking about, well you don't see much as the camera man is clear concentrating on running instead of filming.

As I say I work in the TV industry and to not get quality film footage is one of the biggest sins. If this really was a setup I would have expected to see more of the mob and less of the camaremans running feet.
If it was real, I'd like the accompanying AP or Reuters story about it. TV Crew Ran Out of Town By Mob Throwing Stones (not a drudge title, but you get the point). Do you really think a story with that kind of zing wouldn't get picked in several markets? There's a broad audience that loves stories about the South's wacky antics. You'd think it would at least be a filler story.

True.
Honestly, despite my hatred of baseball, there is little more satisfying than being on the T and randomly yelling "Fuck the Yankees" and having the entire car join in the cheer.

Despite your hatred of baseball, I like you. :) I can only get away with that after attending a Mets game.

Despite your hatred of baseball, I like you. :) I can only get away with that after attending a Mets game.

Baseball, for better or worse, is life around here. Followed closely by football. And then maybe basketball or hockey, if either team isn't sucking too bad.

It does provide for some entertainment atleast. Maybe some more riots this year? One can only hope.

Baseball, for better or worse, is life around here. Followed closely by football. And then maybe basketball or hockey, if either team isn't sucking too bad.

It does provide for some entertainment atleast. Maybe some more riots this year? One can only hope.

Mmm... Delicious, delicious riots. Of course, then you'd just be proving that all Americans love violence and rioting, of course.

In Miami, they were told not to go past 79th Street or they would definitely be murdered. Jeremy Clarkson said that in Miami, "the insects are annoying, it's full of fat people, old people, people who offer you cheese with everything and then shoot you".
The part about Miami is just plain false. I live in South Florida. The insects are??..well...I dunno, arn't insects annoying everywhere? I don't think theres a huge insect problem here.... Full of fat people? Not at all...in fact...we have the beach culture here so many girls are probably a bit too skinny, if truth be told. Old people? Well..yeah...there are alot but to be fair they are mostly up in West Palm Beach...people who offer you cheese with everything and then shoot you? Uh....what the fuck? Are you even serious?

The only areas of Miami you can't go are the Black areas (who'd want to go there anyway?). But of course, they would never say that on TV because then they'd be OMG RACISTS!!!! so they just say you'd get killed in Miami.

How pathetic.:rolleyes:

Well, I'm glad you do. Because the average America definitely does not.

Riiiiggghht. Care to cite a source?

Most people wouldn't take my word for it anyway.

Because it's nonsense.

Mmm... Delicious, delicious riots. Of course, then you'd just be proving that all Americans love violence and rioting, of course.

Of course, Boston riots are more akin to a Mardi Gras in New Orleans or similar street celebrations. Not particularly violent, tho, they do have their moments

Yeah, but the thing is; I've never actually heard anything GOOD about the United States. It just doesn't seem like a very good country.

Yup. It's a terrible country. One of the highest standards of living in the world. A stable, mature democracy where vitriolic haters of the government are only in danger of having bad things said about them by Rush Limbaugh. An unemployment rate that most European leaders would give up their firstborn for. A stable, diversified economy that is at the heart of the international economic system.

Literally millions of Mexicans are willing to risk their lives crossing the desert to come here for a better life. Chinese immigrants stuff themselves into shipping containers to get here. Cubans are willing to risk 90 miles of shark-infested waters in inner-tubes to come here.

Maybe, just maybe, the media in your country doesn't like the US and wants to make the country look bad. Did you perhaps consider that?

Clarkson said that in America, "everybody is very fat, and everybody is very stupid, and everybody is very rude". And I really haven't seen much evidence to the contrary.

Yeah, right. I take it you've never been to Miami, LA, New York or San Diego (where everyone is skinny and in shape), Harvard, University of Chicago, UCLA, Duke, University of Michigan, University of Virginia, Silicon Alley, Washington DC, Wall Street (all places where the brainpower can be used to power the energy grid), or the Midwest, New England or the South, where people are polite to a fault.

But, please, keep showing us your ignorance.

Of course, Boston riots are more akin to a Mardi Gras in New Orleans or similar street celebrations. Not particularly violent, tho, they do have their moments

Pfft. Everyone knows American riots are full of lynchings and shootings and gang-related violence.

Pfft. Everyone knows American riots are full of lynchings and shootings and gang-related violence.

All for the sake of baseball. And racial purity.

All for the sake of baseball. And racial purity.

And McDonalds. If I can't get mah extra cheeze Whopper I starts shootin people with mah gun!

And McDonalds. If I can't get mah extra cheeze Whopper I starts shootin people with mah gun!

But don't forget the main event. We start the book buring at midnight!

If by books you mean furreners. Or worse, furren books, in their scriggly wiggly chicken scratch writing.

But don't forget the main event. We start the book buring at midnight!

And the maps!!!! We must burn all the maps!!!!!

If by books you mean furreners. Or worse, furren books, in their scriggly wiggly chicken scratch writing.

And them darn furren movys. Why does they need to have movys in other languages? I speak english! And I don't want to read mah movie!

And the maps!!!! We must burn all the maps!!!!!

So all the kids in Iraq and South Africa can be educated through smoke of maps and paper and peace on earth.

So all the kids in Iraq and South Africa can be educated through smoke of maps and paper and peace on earth.

Amen.

To address the posts about places in the US not being so bad. Yes, there are a few. I live in the NW part, it's great here. Especially in the more urban areas. The conservatives totally hate us, and the only place you'll find people like the ones in that episode of top gear are in the Idaho border towns, cuz Idaho sucks anyway ;)

This just sounds like a case of Brits coming over here to cause trouble and make fun on America. The U.S. in general isnt like that but the south will NEVER tolerate poeple causing trouble.

So all the kids in Iraq and South Africa can be educated through smoke of maps and paper and peace on earth.

Your grammar is appaling.

"...all the kids in THE Iraq, and SUCH AS South Africa..."

Honestly, what do they teach kids these days.

To address the posts about places in the US not being so bad. Yes, there are a few. I live in the NW part, it's great here. Especially in the more urban areas. The conservatives totally hate us, and the only place you'll find people like the ones in that episode of top gear are in the Idaho border towns, cuz Idaho sucks anyway ;)

You apparently haven't visited Kennewick, Kalamath Falls, Cosmopolis or Roseburg (and surrounding areas)

Your grammar is appaling.

"...all the kids in THE Iraq, and SUCH AS South Africa..."

Honestly, what do they teach kids these days.

Too much librulness in schools. And they let the kids listen to the rap and smoke the pot. Don't matter how well they learn them grammar. These schools are ruining our kids irregardless!

You apparently haven't visited Kennewick, Kalamath Falls, Cosmopolis or Roseburg (and surrounding areas)

You kidding? I intentionally cut them out of my maps. They're the hoary dens that spawned and supported amendment 36. I pretty much consider everything south of Eugene, and east of Mt. Hood to be "Idaho border towns" ;)

Well, I'm glad you do. Because the average America definitely does not.

Proof?

I'll have you know that I've been living in the United States of America my whole life and I have never been murdered. Not once.

This part is true.

What happened to New Orleans is something that disgusts me more than I can express. The complete and utter failure on the part of our President and our government is a disgrace. It's something that I'm extremely upset and embarrassed about, as an American.

Disaster relief is absolutely not the government's concern.

You'd just be laughed at now.

Just like if you were wearing a Mets hat in the Bronx.

:D

Disaster relief is absolutely not the government's concern.

Democratic government.

Most people seem to think the government should do something.

Whadya know, you were wrong.

Democratic government.
Is illegitimate.

Most people seem to think the government should do something.
Irrelevant. The will of the majority does not trump the sacred rights of the individual.

Whadya know, you were wrong.
No, I'm not.

What is and is not a proper government action is most definitely not relative to the type of government within a particular jurisdiction. It is a matter of objective moral principle.

I'm not obligated to leave to avoid having my rights violated. Everyone else is simply obligated to stop violating my rights.

Too much librulness in schools. And they let the kids listen to the rap and smoke the pot. Don't matter how well they learn them grammar. These schools are ruining our kids irregardless!

I was a child who was left behind. :(

Most people wouldn't take my word for it anyway.

"If your mother says she loves you, verify it."

Is illegitimate.


Irrelevant. The will of the majority does not trump the sacred rights of the individual.


No, I'm not.

What is and is not a proper government action is most definitely not relative to the type of government within a particular jurisdiction. It is a matter of objective moral principle.

I'm not obligated to leave to avoid having my rights violated. Everyone else is simply obligated to stop violating my rights.
Right, right.

Where is this magical planet that you live on, then?

Is illegitimate.


Democratic government is illegitimate?

You know that IS the system of government, right? Oh - assuming you're a yank, of course.


Irrelevant. The will of the majority does not trump the sacred rights of the individual.


Yeah it does. Wrong again.

There are no 'sacred' rights.


No, I'm not.


Yeah, you are.


What is and is not a proper government action is most definitely not relative to the type of government within a particular jurisdiction. It is a matter of objective moral principle.


There are no objective moral principles.


I'm not obligated to leave to avoid having my rights violated. Everyone else is simply obligated to stop violating my rights.

Sure. As much as you can enforce that right.

Unfortunately, reality calls your position 'unrealistic'.

In my high school German class we made a "Fer'ner box", composed entirely of notebook paper and tape. Mainly because we could, and because we knew our vocabulary, and as such we didn't have anything else to do. The purpose of this? Make a joke about hicks.

Oh, and to keep our m&m's from spilling onto the table.

The part about Miami is just plain false. I live in South Florida. The insects are??..well...I dunno, arn't insects annoying everywhere? I don't think theres a huge insect problem here.... Full of fat people? Not at all...in fact...we have the beach culture here so many girls are probably a bit too skinny, if truth be told. Old people? Well..yeah...there are alot but to be fair they are mostly up in West Palm Beach...people who offer you cheese with everything and then shoot you? Uh....what the fuck? Are you even serious?

The only areas of Miami you can't go are the Black areas (who'd want to go there anyway?). But of course, they would never say that on TV because then they'd be OMG RACISTS!!!! so they just say you'd get killed in Miami.

How pathetic.:rolleyes:

Welcome to the world 'LOL SE US IS SUK' culture.
I was born in Mississippi. Lived in Alabama for the first five years of my life. Im not racist, a hick, fundie or pretty much anything else associated with your average southern hick. Although, I admit, I do enjoy target shooting.

Basically, its a handy way to assure people at home of their cultural superiority by pointing out that certain portions of the US are full of idiots. As if their own nation has no idiots at all.
Its like judging the entire UK by my two visits to London, in which case we can assume the entire UK:
Is full of idiots on guitars who cant play and want you to give them money.
The streets are full of nutcases shouting for/against the royalty, fox hunting, God, or what have you. They also may want money.
The sidewalks are more often than not clogged with poor street theatre/panhandlers. They want money as well.
The water sucks and can make you sick if you drink too much of it.
Everybody drives as if their windshield is made of the same stuff as those glasses that make you see everything upside down.

Stereotyping is fun, eh?

You kidding? I intentionally cut them out of my maps. They're the hoary dens that spawned and supported amendment 36. I pretty much consider everything south of Eugene, and east of Mt. Hood to be "Idaho border towns" ;)

Fair enough.

I'm struggling to see any possible event that doesn't make sueing someone for getting the date of a car they're giving you free of charge the act of a total arse.

Bwhahahh really!

Hey you have this, it's free you can just take it and use it how you like.

Really gee thanks, say how long is it?

Well it's two feet.

Dude you lied to me, it's not two feet it's one and a half feet, I'm gonna sue.

Okay, my bad here. I missed the "give it away" part in the OP. My apologies to all concerned.

However...

Yeah, but the thing is; I've never actually heard anything GOOD about the United States. It just doesn't seem like a very good country.

Clarkson said that in America, "everybody is very fat, and everybody is very stupid, and everybody is very rude". And I really haven't seen much evidence to the contrary.

And you have imitation American cheese on your ham and cheese sandwiches! American cheese is imitation cheese in the first place! That's basically imitation imitation cheese!

Uh, no. "American" cheese is already a processed cheese food (terminology which makes me think that this is what they feed TO cheese, but that's another rant). You can't imitate an imitation. And are you telling this forum that nowhere in all of Australia is there mass-produced food formulated to be cheap? Everyone eats genuine aged Gouda or 20-month Cheddar? You've no sausages made from meat by-products? Please. Wherever there's someone looking to make a buck in the food industry, there's imitation food. Nice try, though. Your anti-US rhetoric is the right pitch. Lend it some honesty and you'll be far more likely to succeed.

No. My mother always told me not to because I'd be shot.

This kind of tripe is complete bollocks. You simply cannot use the term "everybody" on the citizens of ANY nation and expect to be taken seriously. Exceptions and mischaracterizations abound in such sweeping generalizations.

If I go into the wrong place at the wrong time ANYWHERE ON THE GLOBE, I face the risk of confrontation. Please, PLEASE don't tell me there are no places in Australia where being the wrong kind of person or dressed the wrong way or saying the wrong thing won't get you a fistful of knuckles. 'Cause that lie would be more embarrassing than the rest of your posts.

ARE there fat people in the US? Absolutely. Are they everywhere? Yes. Is EVERYONE fat? No. Simple. Just like not every Aussie is a sport-mad drunkard with missing teeth.

I've been. What I saw completely reinforced the version of events given in Top Gear, sorry. I saw the episode, and yes, while they do script their studio show, the segments filmed in the US looked complete in and of themselves and quite believable.

You're perfectly entitled to feel angry because although your country on the whole is populated with polite well behaved human beings, the people that Top Gear went looking for, and found, do actually exist, and in decent numbers.

Sorry about that.

And you should be sorry for posting such drivel.

For fuck's sake, man, Top Gear went looking for assholes and *GASP* found some! What a shock! Call the UN!

I don't think that many non Americans here actually think that about America or Americans, nor do I believe that is true for the majority of my own country men.

Yes the question was from a place of ignorance, and and can be seen in the same light as asking a black man 'is it true all black men are muggers'

But I don't think there was the intent of insult in it, and so I believe that the question was asked to rid the OP of ignorance, and to show the incredulousness he/she obviously felt at what was seen on the show.

On the whole though(and perhaps this is just me) I don't understand why people take perceived insult to their country so to heart?

Except that FO has gone on to heap ignorant insult on top of ignorant injury. So no, I don't believe he was "asking out of ignorance" in the way you are suggesting.

Hey, at least I know where Iraq is. I KNOW what military quagmires my country gets involved in.

Do you? Where are Aussie troops right now, then?

... Isn't it ILLEGAL to assault people in the United States?

Yes it is. And you know it. Disingenuous is too nice a word to use on you for posting that question.

No, although I've seen that episode. I've actually read reports saying that most Americans don't know where Iraq is.

Yes, because each one of those reports actually asked ALL 300+ MILLION Americans at home and abroad if they knew where Iraq was, and COUNTED the responses of the infants just to skew their numbers.

Good Lord, if you can't figure out that a random survey is greatly dependent upon where you ask, when and how you phrase the question....well...you're just being deliberately thick in order to get a rise out of the Americans in this forum. And you've succeeded. NOW what?

See, there's your entire country's exact problem! They DIDN'T deserve what they got, because it's free speech and throwing rocks at people is called assault, which is illegal.

Yeah, and if Top Gear personnel had ACTUALLY been ASSAULTED, guess what? They'd have pressed charges. Did they? I'm sure they'd want to cover that and show the "world" what the US justice system is like, right? But no. They didn't file charges. Why? The "assault" was STAGED, that's why. Are you done yet, or are you just trying for the Trolling under-bridge-of-fame?

I recently watched an episode of Top Gear...
And there’s your problem.

Top Gear is entirely staged and scripted. Poorly staged and scripted, I might add. It’s a car show, not a documentary.

The US might be crap, but Top Gear won’t tell you either way.

After all, it’s presented by a man who takes snow at the North Pole as evidence that climate change is bunk...

There are no 'sacred' rights.

There are no objective moral principles.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but you can't just come out with such important philosophical statements without some argument behind them.

That's shoddy argumentation.

Everyone can do that; look:

Justified true belief is knowledge!

Positive liberty is unreal!

Well what ever, if you can't see it, then I guess ya can't see it.

That beats deliberately blinding yourself to it.

Really? You really gonna make me spell it out to ya huh?

Okay well then:

He said:

'1. I was living in N.O. during Katrina, and I can tell you New Orleans and most of Louisiana is a total crap hole, the vast majority of the people there are uneducated and probably could be considered clinically retarded by most western standards. I heard gunshots on many nights in the year I lived there, and a kid I had met at the corner store was stabbed to death a few weeks after I met him. BUT it is a very fun city. The French Quarter is great, there's a lot of history there and great food. With all that said however...deep down...I have always wished Katrina would have cleansed more of the scum from the earth. The people in N.O. that they so generously gave the cars to have probably already sold them and spent the money on beer, drugs, and illegal firearms.

2.Anybody dumb and obnoxious enough to fly half way around the world to drive their cars through a foreign country waving signs that are specifically designed to annoy the locals deserves to be stoned and shot.'

I've posted the whole of it so that I can't be accused of fiddling with context.(Watch out for that word CONTEXT, it is very important) Although it is only number 2 that I want to concentrate on.

Within the context of the program, these signs designed to annoy the locals were 'Man love rules' 'NAScar Sucks' and 'Hilary for president'

All of these except perhaps the one about NAScar can be taken as political statements or statements of solidarity with gay rights or a politician.

That they annoyed the locals is largely immaterial, what is important is the fact that these 'signs' are hardly incentment to violence. Even if they where, the right of the people to have them, and show them and say the actual words is a right garenteed by freedom of speech.

To declare that anybody who shows one of these signs in order to annoy the locals deserves to be stoned and shot, is in fact declaring that anybody who practices free speech which winds up the locals deserves to be stoned and shot.

This has already been addressed and debunked. The show is staged and edited. Had there been a real altercation, with a genuine assault, the show would have taken the evidence to the authorities and pressed charges. There would have been news coverage of some sort. There was nothing. It's crap.

Disaster relief is absolutely not the government's concern.

Not you again.

Right, right.

Where is this magical planet that you live on, then?

Borg. L'nL is from the Libertarian Borg Collective. REASON IS IRRELEVANT, DEMOCRACY IS IRRELEVANT. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

Democratic government is illegitimate?

*snip*

There are no 'sacred' rights.

*snip*

Unfortunately, reality calls your position 'unrealistic'.

Grave, may I introduce you to L'nL, NSG resident reality denier. See, he's so thoroughly convinced in hyperlibertarianism that everything as it exists to us now just plain doesn't exist for him. You waste your breath and valuable carpal-tunnel-free typing time trying to explain to him how the world actually works outside his bubble. That said, continue to try, if you wish. That's the one thing, however, that really IS futile.

Democratic government is illegitimate?

You know that IS the system of government, right? Oh - assuming you're a yank, of course.
Your point?

Did I ever claim otherwise?

"Is" does not imply "ought".

There are no 'sacred' rights.
Incorrect.


There are no objective moral principles.
Incorrect.

Sure. As much as you can enforce that right.

Unfortunately, reality calls your position 'unrealistic'.

Just because you can get away with it doesn't make it right.

Just because you can't get away with it doesn't make it wrong.

Moral rectitude and practical feasibility are entirely separate.

Grave, may I introduce you to L'nL, NSG resident reality denier.
Not at all.

See, he's so thoroughly convinced in hyperlibertarianism that everything as it exists to us now just plain doesn't exist for him.

Incorrect.

There is a huge difference between saying "X shouldn't exist/occur" (which is what I often say) and saying "X doesn't exist/occur" (which is what you apparently think I am saying).

I'm not saying the US government isn't organized around democratic principles, nor have I ever. I'm merely saying it shouldn't be, and the fact that it is makes it illegitimate.

Not at all.



Incorrect.

There is a huge difference between saying "X shouldn't exist/occur" (which is what I often say) and saying "X doesn't exist/occur" (which is what you apparently think I am saying).

I'm not saying the US government isn't organized around democratic principles, nor have I ever. I'm merely saying it shouldn't be, and the fact that it is makes it illegitimate.

Right, but that's not how you present. You present like a libertarian automaton. Look, we GET it. You'd LIKE things to be the way YOU think they should be. Got it. Now, unless you're going to present something that furthers the debate instead of just saying "incorrect" all the damn time, then please do so. Otherwise, you'll get nothing but Borg insinuations.

When someone is saying that government is responsible for something, that's because it histoaricall HAS been. Whether that's the way it SHOULD be or not is NOT usually the topic. Start your own threads and see how far they get with SHOULD as a topic.

Wow, they went fishing for a negative reaction, and then they got one. What a surprise . . .
It's like when that Borat guy got punched in the face, if you wander around trying to piss people off, don't be surprised when they get a little pissed off.

Yes, that.

There are stupid people in America (Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Paris Hilton, George Bush)

There are stupid people in Britian (Jade Goody, Chantelle Houghton, Cliff Richard)

R-tardedness knows no nationality.

Sure.

Grave, may I introduce you to L'nL, NSG resident reality denier.Not at all.

You have to be a parody.:p

You have to be a parody.:p

Just a Hoosier, some of 'em are weird. Entirely too basketball obsessed, and there's fucking corn everywhere!

No. My mother always told me not to because I'd be shot.Excuse me for saying this, but your mom is an idiot and you need to learn to think for yourself.

Just a Hoosier, some of 'em are weird. Entirely too basketball obsessed, and there's fucking corn everywhere!

I just got my Purdue basketball season tickets today and my 07-08 Paint Crew shirt.

Too bad we only have IU on the road. Our top recruit shut out IU's top recruit at this year's state finals.

my 07-08 Paint Crew shirt.


I'm so glad I went to Purdue during the Gene Keady era...and straddled the Drew Brees/Kyle Orton years for football.

Come to Boston and claim you're a Yankee's fan. It'll be fun ;)Or vise-versa. I've seen great youtube videos of people waring Red Sox hats in the bleachers at Yankee stadium. They get absolutely abused. Hell I've worn a White Sox hat in Wrigley's bleachers. That was scary. Ditto for wearing a Michigan jersey to the Horseshoe during a OSU Michigan game.

You'd just be laughed at now.
Not the case when Boston was on a ledge last September.

I recently watched an episode of Top Gear (see: British car show) in which they went to the US for a challenge (buy a car each for $1000 or less in Miami, then drive to New Orleans and try to sell them for more than that). Their trip, to sum it up, was TERRIBLE. In Miami, they were told not to go past 79th Street or they would definitely be murdered. Jeremy Clarkson said that in Miami, "the insects are annoying, it's full of fat people, old people, people who offer you cheese with everything and then shoot you".

In one challenge, they tried to get each other "arrested or shot" by painting slogans on their cars and driving through Alabama. Said slogans were "Country western is rubbish", "Hillary for President" and "Man-love rules". They ended up being chased out of town by hicks in a pickup throw rocks at them.

They got to New Orleans, and they wanted to sell their cars. But the city was still in absolute ruins from Hurricane Katrina. It felt wrong to sell them, so they ended up giving them away. Clarkson said "I don't know how the rest of America sleeps at night, knowing that this is here".

Is the US really that bad?


plain and simple straightforward: no.

the t.v. industry is. they stage so much crap and make America look terrible. all though of course we have our flaws. people do take offense to being INSULTED, and no, you will not get shot. if you're waving you're money around, robbed- maybe. but even then. not too liking. and we sleep at night, knowing that we are doign EVERYTHING we can to help.

my school and the surrounding schools have a bake sale every friday and all the proceeds go to Katrina victims and reconstruction. every friday. i recently hosted a HUGE car-wash with my other friends raising 300 dollars in 3 hours going to Katrina. and these are just my stories. stories come up day after day about people helping.
becasue although we hve our flaws, we are human and we want to help. we did not ask for any of this, and we are just trying to fix it.

so no. we do not suck.

While I'm sure they picked the worst examples to showcase, as it's tv, there still are some pretty bad parts of the States. As is so often the case, our ideals here don't so nicely match up to our realities. :(

Yeah. They started in Miami, of all cities, and then went to the place that a hurricane just hit. It's a big country, and there were plenty of trips they could have made that would not have been nearly this unpleasant.

This part is true.

What happened to New Orleans is something that disgusts me more than I can express. The complete and utter failure on the part of our President and our government is a disgrace. It's something that I'm extremely upset and embarrassed about, as an American.

The hurricane was pretty bad, too.

I'm so glad I went to Purdue during the Gene Keady era...and straddled the Drew Brees/Kyle Orton years for football.

Orton's last year was not worth seeing. A great 4-0 start got ruined when he laid an egg against Wisconsin right in front of a national TV audience. Be glad you missed Brandon Kirsch's 2/3 of a season. At least Curtis Painter looks OK. A friend and I ran into him at Where Else a few weeks ago.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but you can't just come out with such important philosophical statements without some argument behind them.

That's shoddy argumentation.


The thing is - I didn't invoke 'sacred' rights or objective moral principles... our erstwhile comrade did. Not only are these concepts involved in his (her?) argument... they pretty much sum the whole argument up.

So - all I'm doing is pointing out the flaws in the other post. I could have done it by asking. I could have requested a citation, or a source. Or I can just 'negate' the original post and wait for the other poster to provide their justification.

I think the argument was prety weak to start with, so I did that which felt most constructive - it calls the original post into question, and it shows any casual passerby in the topic, that the central assumptions are far from universal.

Your point?

Did I ever claim otherwise?


If you were claiming our government is illegitimate?

I'm not sure - I'm not quite sure what your post was supposed to say or mean.

If you mean our government shouldn't be 'democratic'... that doesn't matter - because it is, kind of. lso - it 'should' be that way, because it was implicit in it's founding.


"Is" does not imply "ought".


So? This is the government we have.


Incorrect.


Bullshit. Prove there is a single 'sacred right'.


Incorrect.


Bullshit. Prove there are any 'objective moral principles'.


Just because you can get away with it doesn't make it right.

Just because you can't get away with it doesn't make it wrong.


No - but that is basically how 'rights' work. If you can do a thing, you have the 'right'. If you can't.. you don't.


Moral rectitude and practical feasibility are entirely separate.

Yes. 'Practical feasibility' actually has some real meaning, whereas 'moral rectitude' is another way of saying 'some asshole's opinion'.

Orton's last year was not worth seeing. A great 4-0 start got ruined when he laid an egg against Wisconsin right in front of a national TV audience. Be glad you missed Brandon Kirsch's 2/3 of a season. At least Curtis Painter looks OK. A friend and I ran into him at Where Else a few weeks ago.

It's annoying when the basketball coach and the football team's starting quarterback have the same last name.

I remember watching Curtis Painter play in high school...his high school and the one I attended are in the same conference, so I got to see him quite often once I graduated and moved back home.

If you mean our government shouldn't be 'democratic'... that doesn't matter - because it is, kind of. lso - it 'should' be that way, because it was implicit in it's founding.


There is only one objectively proper type of government, and that is how all governments should be. It doesn't matter if it was intended to be something else; if it was, then it was intended to be wrong.

Bullshit. Prove there is a single 'sacred right'.
A is A.
P cannot be equivalent to both Q and ~Q.



Bullshit. Prove there are any 'objective moral principles'.
A is A.
P cannot be equivalent to both Q and ~Q.

No - but that is basically how 'rights' work. If you can do a thing, you have the 'right'. If you can't.. you don't.
Incorrect. You have your rights whether you're practically able to exercise them or not; if you're not, then the state is in violation of your rights, which you still possess nonetheless.

Yes. 'Practical feasibility' actually has some real meaning, whereas 'moral rectitude' is another way of saying 'some asshole's opinion'.

Nothing is ever a matter of opinion.

It's annoying when the basketball coach and the football team's starting quarterback have the same last name.

I remember watching Curtis Painter play in high school...his high school and the one I attended are in the same conference, so I got to see him quite often once I graduated and moved back home.It does get annoying. Lee Corso actually called Curtis Painter Matt Painter a few weeks ago on College Gameday.

I just have to ask you a question since you're a Purdue alum. What was your favorite bar in West Laf.

Apparently, Iceland and Sweden have the highest crime rates in the world, first and second respectively.

Then again, this map is extremely dodgy.



Burglary – Widely believed as the gravest of property crimes, burglary is lower in US today than in the 80s. As of 2000, US has lower rates than Australia, Canada, Denmark, England, Finland, and Wales. It has higher rates than Korea, Saudi Arabia, and Spain.
Homicide – US had been consistently high in homicide rates than most of the Western countries from 1980 – 2000. Though the rate was cut almost in half in the 90s, it is still higher than all nations without political and social turmoil with the 2000 rate of 5.5 homicides per 100,000 people. Countries entrenched in turmoil like Colombia and South Africa, had 63 homicides per 100,000 and 51, respectively.

Rape – In the 80s and 90s, US rates were higher than most of the Western countries, but by 2000, Canada is leading. Rape reports are lower in Asia and the Middle East.

Robbery – The past 2 decades saw a steady decline in the US. Countries with more reported robberies than US include England, Wales, Portugal, and Spain. Those with fewer are France, Germany, and Italy, and Asian countries plus the Middle East.In overall crimes (the total of all mentioned crimes), US ranks the highest, followed by Germany, United Kingdom, France, and South Africa.



http://www.nationmaster.com/article/Crime-Rates-Around-the-World




Now this is a hoot: In the 3rd world, overweight is becoming more of a problem than underweight for women!

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/81/3/714?ck=nck


No, that data was for developing or Second World.

I've never been a big drinker...I had classes in Jake's a couple of times, but of course always before 9:00 when it became 21+ only...other than that, a buddy took me into Harry's once to try and pick up women after I said "screw you, I've had enough" to this girl I was dating.

Sergeant Something-or-the-other (can't remember), right on the river in Lafayette, was a good place for first dates, I remember.

I was a drum corps nerd, so most weekends I was either in Madison, WI for rehearsals or out camping or at concerts (saw Rush three times while I was there, in Chicago, Detroit, and Indy).

There is only one objectively proper type of government, and that is how all governments should be. It doesn't matter if it was intended to be something else; if it was, then it was intended to be wrong.


It doesn't matter if you consider it 'wrong'. There is no empirical right or wrong in government... only what is effective or not.. what is accepted or not.

Your answer that there is a form of government that 'should' exist is irrelevent and nonsensical. I'm not discussing your fantasies and dreams, I'm talking about the 'real world'.


A is A.
P cannot be equivalent to both Q and ~Q.


I assume you either failed to understand the challenge extended, or realised that there is simply no empirical way to prove your assumption.


A is A.
P cannot be equivalent to both Q and ~Q.


It was pretty dumb the first time. You appear to have accidentally copy-and-pasted the same crap as a response again. Admit you can;t do it. I won't think less of you.


Incorrect. You have your rights whether you're practically able to exercise them or not; if you're not, then the state is in violation of your rights, which you still possess nonetheless.


Prove it. I say that rights exist ONLY as they can be vouchsafed for you. Your 'sacred right to life' won't stop you dying in a plane crash, ina tiger, or at the bottom of a steep drop.


Nothing is ever a matter of opinion.

That's a matter of opinion.

I've never been a big drinker...I had classes in Jake's a couple of times, but of course always before 9:00 when it became 21+ only...other than that, a buddy took me into Harry's once to try and pick up women after I said "screw you, I've had enough" to this girl I was dating.

Sergeant Something-or-the-other (can't remember), right on the river in Lafayette, was a good place for first dates, I remember.

I was a drum corps nerd, so most weekends I was either in Madison, WI for rehearsals or out camping or at concerts (saw Rush three times while I was there, in Chicago, Detroit, and Indy).Harry's isn't a good bar to get drunk at. The drinks are too expensive and they never had discount nights like the Cactus's Thirsty Thursdays. The drinks are just too expensive at Harry's, but all of the girls go there so they can get guys to buy them drinks. Jakes is a really nice place to have drinks with friends, but it often turns into a bigger sausage fest than my fraternity house. My favorite still has to be the Cactus because Bruce the Piano Man is awesome.

For some reason, whenever I think of Jake's I always associate it with this time I was on State Street walking over to a blues festival at Riehle Plaza in Lafayette when this guy doing an impersonation of Will Ferrell doing his Harry Caray impersonation came up Chauncey Hill on a bicycle and nearly ran me down.

Not pleasant.

It doesn't matter if you consider it 'wrong'. There is no empirical right or wrong in government... only what is effective or not.. what is accepted or not.
Empiricism is not a valid means of determining truth. Only reason is.

There's no need to respond to the rest of your post because it is predicated on this faulty assumption.

Just a Hoosier, some of 'em are weird. Entirely too basketball obsessed, and there's fucking corn everywhere!

Grave -- don't say I didn't warn you.

I have no diffuculty believing L'nL was drum corps. You have to be very singleminded and blinkered to have that kind of focus.

We missed what they said off camera. We may have even missed -- perish the thought :rolleyes: -- the part where the hicks were in on the joke.

It's possible, but from the interviews clarkson et al gave afterwards they edited out some of the worst its and they genuinely thought they would be killed.

The Northeast, not so much...

We still have our pockets of gang-infested hellholes, though.

Wow, they went fishing for a negative reaction, and then they got one. What a surprise . . .
It's like when that Borat guy got punched in the face, if you wander around trying to piss people off, don't be surprised when they get a little pissed off.

Here, here. If you look for the bad you'll always find it but try looking for the good for a change ya know. Do we really need to see how bad we are anymore? Anyone who watches 8 minutes of the 6 or 10 o'clock news can see the dregs of society but watch for 30 minutes and you'll find maybe 1 segment of good to 20 of bad.

"Annoying others" does fall under freedom of speech.

One could argue that throwing rocks is also freedom of speech -- they are clearly expressing their anger and dismay at being made mock of.

Yeah, but the thing is; I've never actually heard anything GOOD about the United States. It just doesn't seem like a very good country.

Clarkson said that in America, "everybody is very fat, and everybody is very stupid, and everybody is very rude". And I really haven't seen much evidence to the contrary.

And you have imitation American cheese on your ham and cheese sandwiches! American cheese is imitation cheese in the first place! That's basically imitation imitation cheese!

Clearly an unbiased opinon based on unbiased sources.
Shall we tie your kangaroo down, mate, or throw another shrimp on the barbie? Or shall we all stand around in funny hats with one side clipped to the top yelling Crikey about the syphilitic koalas?

Do you really expect we think every Aussie is a Foster's-swilling Donk or a colorful backwoodsman who wouldn't know what to do in a city?

No, although I've seen that episode. I've actually read reports saying that most Americans don't know where Iraq is.

Cite, please.

Sorry, I read that thing, like, two years ago.

And Google does not exist in Australia?

One could argue that throwing rocks is also freedom of speech -- they are clearly expressing their anger and dismay at being made mock of.

Physical violence and intimidation can not be equated with freedom of speech. The primary hallmark of any free society is that the use of violence is the sole property of the state, and then only under extremely regulated conditions.

"Is" does not imply "ought".

This has to be the funniest thing a Randroid has ever said. Oh, the irony.

This has to be the funniest thing a Randroid has ever said. Oh, the irony.

Anything L and L has said is funny. This is the same guy who claims that Peyton manning has zero interceptions.

I'll have you know that I've been living in the United States of America my whole life and I have never been murdered. Not once.

Hell, I've lived in New York City my whole life -- me neither!
And when I traveled out to Wisconsin, I didn't find anyone in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Illinois, Indiana, or Wisconsin rude or backward. Imagine.

The folks in California though, you want to watch them. Anyone that friendly and helpful is definitely up to no good.

Is illegitimate.


Irrelevant. The will of the majority does not trump the sacred rights of the individual.


No, I'm not.

What is and is not a proper government action is most definitely not relative to the type of government within a particular jurisdiction. It is a matter of objective moral principle.

I'm not obligated to leave to avoid having my rights violated. Everyone else is simply obligated to stop violating my rights.

Actually, if you intend to live in this country, where there is a democratic republican form of government -- then yes, you are subject to the same laws as everyone else.

If you don't like it, found your own nation, or get enough like-minded individuals to join with you to change it.
I won't hold my breath.

Empiricism is not a valid means of determining truth.


Which is why the Sun, in fact, orbits the Earth.

...

One would think after 400 hundred years (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair), this issue would be well resolved (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method). It would be especially ironic if Ms. Rand would help to perpetuate the Roman Inquisition's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition#Roman_Inquisition) nonsense. Is "Holy Bible" spelled "A-t-l-a-s- -S-h-r-u-g-g-e-d" now?

"Objective" indeed.

Physical violence and intimidation can not be equated with freedom of speech. The primary hallmark of any free society is that the use of violence is the sole property of the state, and then only under extremely regulated conditions.

I was being facetious, but honestly, if one waves a flag around in front of a bull, should one be shocked by the response?

"Is the US really this bad?" Only if you're high on drugs.

Because this isn't an insult to country, nor to our government. It is an insult directed at every person who considers themselves "American". It is basically saying that, because of where I live, I am considered stupid, fat, intolerant, rude, etc.

Nope it is not, did you take it that way? Then that is your perception, no body has actually said them words, nor stated that idea.

If you actuality read it like that then doesn't that suggest more about your sensitivity?

I'll have you know that I've been living in the United States of America my whole life and I have never been murdered. Not once.

Bwhahah, and that is the measure of a countries greatness. How it treats it's clowns.:D

Welcome to the world 'LOL SE US IS SUK' culture.
I was born in Mississippi. Lived in Alabama for the first five years of my life. Im not racist, a hick, fundie or pretty much anything else associated with your average southern hick. Although, I admit, I do enjoy target shooting.

Basically, its a handy way to assure people at home of their cultural superiority by pointing out that certain portions of the US are full of idiots. As if their own nation has no idiots at all.
Its like judging the entire UK by my two visits to London, in which case we can assume the entire UK:
Is full of idiots on guitars who cant play and want you to give them money.
The streets are full of nutcases shouting for/against the royalty, fox hunting, God, or what have you. They also may want money.
The sidewalks are more often than not clogged with poor street theatre/panhandlers. They want money as well.
The water sucks and can make you sick if you drink too much of it.
Everybody drives as if their windshield is made of the same stuff as those glasses that make you see everything upside down.

Stereotyping is fun, eh?

I live and work in London, UK, and that is I must say a pretty fair assesment of my home town!;)

Except that FO has gone on to heap ignorant insult on top of ignorant injury. So no, I don't believe he was "asking out of ignorance" in the way you are suggesting.

After reading through the thread over the last few days, I have actually changed my opinion of FO, you are quite right he/she is showing a lot of bear faced racism.

The show would have been much funnier if one of the cars had actually been shot at.

It's possible, but from the interviews clarkson et al gave afterwards they edited out some of the worst its and they genuinely thought they would be killed.

Uh-huh. Right. And what would you expect them to say? That it was all a hoax? How would THAT improve ratings?

After reading through the thread over the last few days, I have actually changed my opinion of FO, you are quite right he/she is showing a lot of bear faced racism.

It's not racism, Americans are not a race.

"Is the US really this bad?" Only if you're high on drugs.

Shouldn't that only if you are not high on drugs?

Anything L and L has said is funny. This is the same guy who claims that Peyton manning has zero interceptions.

No, he has one...came this past Sunday against Tampa Bay.

Actually, if you intend to live in this country, where there is a democratic republican form of government -- then yes, you are subject to the same laws as everyone else.
No one is subject to illegitimate laws.

And the legitimacy of a law is determined not by how it got on the books but by its substance.

If you don't like it, found your own nation, or get enough like-minded individuals to join with you to change it.
I won't hold my breath.

I don't have to leave to avoid having my rights violated. Everyone else simply has to stop violating my rights.

No, he has one...came this past Sunday against Tampa Bay.

See what I mean? LOL!!

Actually, if you intend to live in this country, where there is a democratic republican form of government -- then yes, you are subject to the same laws as everyone else.

If you don't like it, found your own nation...
.

Only be careful to make sure there's no one already claiming the place, because the acceptance of wholesale people-moving ended sometime in 1947, after Pakistan but before Israel... or that's what I'm told, at least. This leaves you with Antartica, the ocean floor, or outer space. Or, wait for a volcano to breach the surface in international waters, then get their first.

Assorted notes on the thread:

Yes, the insects in south Florida are THAT BAD. I have been there. But the insects are nothing to worry about, because they are eaten by lizards. Then snakes eat the lizards, and Alligators eat the snakes. People who are overly concerned about the insects don't watch where they are going, and get eatern by alligators.

Carry a whole, raw chicken with you at all times. If you are cornered by an alligator, you drop the chicken and try to escape while the alligator eats it. This is probably a political allegory for something... and I don't think its coincidence at all that alligator and allegory sound alike.

Elsewhere in the deep south, yes, you can get beaten up for expressing an extreme dislike of country music or car racing. So? In England (been there too) you can get beaten up for expressing support for the wrong football team, or something as simple as driving on the right, which the rest of the EU does but the English stubbornly refuse. I've heard the EU is going to force England to adopt this, though, and the English are going to phase it in: Trucks (Lorries to my Brit friends!) and Busses will start driving on the right in 2008, cars in 2010, motorcycles and scooters in 2012.

Meanwhile, elsewhere in the world you can get beaten up for a variety of reasons. In most of the Arab world, "Jewish" will do it for you, while in the extreme parts "not Arab enough for us" will work. Or even being female and exposing too much ankle in public. Or exposing a point of view in public. In some places the men are very, um... traditional... and modesty demands that the women not expose their points of view to strangers.

And in South America (been there), you can get beaten up just because that's what they feel like doing at the time. Sometimes, they go farther, and stuff you in the back of a car and mail a finger or two back to your family. It's a quaint tradition, but it will make anyone familiar with the USA wish he was back in South Carolina, getting beaten up because he said country music was gay.

If by chance you are not American, and you haven't been here, or if you are American and wish to travel abroad, here are some things which are really, really great about America, but get ignored by most of our critics:

1) We view toilet paper as a necessity, not a luxury. When you use a toilet, public or private, you can generally expect that it will be provided, for free.

2) Wherever you are from, you can find some little piece of home, somewhere in the USA, probably in New York City. When you travel on a New York subway, it is impossible to look like a foreigner- everyone looks like they belong there.

3) If you report a crime, even a petty theft, the police will take it seriously. Odds are they will not solve the crime, and you will never see your camera again, but at least they will act as if solving the crime is their job.

4) If the power goes out we will not riot in the streets. We got over that years ago. Now we just hand out ice cream. If the power is out and you see rioting, check your map, you have crossed the border into Canada.

5) If you see a sign showing the hours of business on an American store, you can be reasonably certain that during those hours the store will actually be open. The clerk may be a clueless teenager, but they will be open for business.

6) We are what we are and we feel no need to force it. No one tells us what language our signs have to be in, or that we have to have X many hours of TV programming out of the day which are "distinctly American." What you see is what you get. Americans are not never subtle, which is a plus when you have a zillion different cultures, none of which would really understand the subtleties of the others anyway.

7) We are accomodating to visitors from around the globe! You can get a taxi driver that speaks fluent Urdu, Bengali, Turkish, Spanish, Haitian Creole... although you may have a problem with English.

8) Service employees of all kinds will treat you with a smile and good cheer. They be faking it, but they fake it well. They understand that their paychecks actually originate with the customers.

9) America is open past 6 pm, on weekdays.

10) You can make up all kinds of crazy things about your homeland, and most Americans will beleive you. Don't blame us for not understanding how things really are where you come from. We are still trying to understand California, and when we finally get that done, THEN we can move on to the rest of the world. But don't underestimate us either. We specialize. We may not all know about the place you come from, but somewhere, we have a few of us who were born and raised there, and they know everything there is to know about you, including what you really put in the meat pies, and they can tell us what we need to know.

Empiricism is not a valid means of determining truth. Only reason is.

There's no need to respond to the rest of your post because it is predicated on this faulty assumption.

Bwhahahah and just how does one go about defining what 'truth' is without empirical knowledge?

How do you intend to 'reason' without recourse to empirical evidence?

You are just saying long words without any concept of their meaning aren't you!

Bwhahahah and just how does one go about defining what 'truth' is without empirical knowledge?

You can't.

How do you intend to 'reason' without recourse to empirical evidence?

You can't.

You are just saying long words without any concept of their meaning aren't you!

Yes he is. LOL!

Bwhahahah and just how does one go about defining what 'truth' is without empirical knowledge?

Since we live in a fundamentally rational universe, any argument predicated on false premises will necessarily lead to a contradiction.

Empiricism can only tell you how things appear to be. Only reason can tell you how things actually are.

Since we live in a fundamentally rational universe, any argument predicated on false premises will necessarily lead to a contradiction.

A fundamentally rational universe? WOW!!! What planet are you on?

Empiricism can only tell you how things appear to be. Only reason can tell you how things actually are.

reason? Oh brother. Looks like someone is in a philosphy class talking about reasoning. Trust me. Reason can only get you so far but really...reasoning in the real world is nearly impossible.

It's not racism, Americans are not a race.

Bah pedant. I if I say I hate the French then that can certainly be classed as racism.

Since we live in a fundamentally rational universe, any argument predicated on false premises will necessarily lead to a contradiction.

Empiricism can only tell you how things appear to be. Only reason can tell you how things actually are.

Reason based on...... what exactly?

How do you know we are liveing a rational universe, can you prove that to me without using empiricism?

Nope it is not, did you take it that way? Then that is your perception, no body has actually said them words, nor stated that idea.

If you actuality read it like that then doesn't that suggest more about your sensitivity?

yes, clearly my response would be rooted in my interpretation.

I am American.
FO called all Americans fat, stupid, etc.
Therefore, FO called me fat, stupid, etc.


Not to mention, this kind of ignorance and generalizing just kinda pisses me off.

yes, clearly my response would be rooted in my interpretation.

I am American.
FO called all Americans fat, stupid, etc.
Therefore, FO called me fat, stupid, etc.


Not to mention, this kind of ignorance and generalizing just kinda pisses me off.

Well to be pedantic about it, FO was quoteing Jerermy Clarkeson.

Empiricism is not a valid means of determining truth. Only reason is.


Reason without empricism is an orgasm without ejaculate.

You are firing blanks.


There's no need to respond to the rest of your post because it is predicated on this faulty assumption.

Don't confuse a 'lack of need' with a lack of ability.

If you could have made any kind of worthwhile response to anything I said, you would have.

Welcome to my list of people to ignore.

A fundamentally rational universe? WOW!!! What planet are you on?
Do you believe in the Lord? Or are you one of those idiots who claims to, but is a cynic deep down? I bet on the latter. You sound like an idiot.

Reason without empricism is an orgasm without ejaculate.
Are you trying to sound clever? Because it isn't working.

Anyone with an actual schooling in philosophy should know that reliance on empirical facts =/= empiricism. All knowledge ultimately is derived empirically, that much is trivially true. However there are varying methodologies for arriving at truth, both based on reason and on empirical testing.

How do you know we are liveing a rational universe, can you prove that to me without using empiricism?
Can you prove that empiricism is valid with recourse to empiricism...? Yes, how genius.

Are you trying to sound clever? Because it isn't working.


No, I was making a response to a comment that was even more ridiculous than anything in my own comment might have been.

I'm pretty sure I wasn't talking to you, anyway... but 'hi!' - feel free to contribute. God knows the other poster can use some help.


Anyone with an actual schooling in philosophy should know that reliance on empirical facts =/= empiricism.


A wise philosopher once wrote: "Are you trying to sound clever? Because it isn't working". Perhaps, it applies here.

I'd advise against trying to pretend some kind of elitist advantage.


All knowledge ultimately is derived empirically, that much is trivially true.


I disagree. Good start.


However there are varying methodologies for arriving at truth, both based on reason and on empirical testing.

Which may be true... but empiricism rejects the concept of 'innate' knowledge. Which makes it the only credible way to discuss the topic of Linus' little jaunt - the nature of legitimate and/or worthy government.

We can throw speculative governments at each other all day, if we are happy to debate pure theory... but the context of actual government, in 'real life' is always going to have to have some kind of empirical basis.

Well to be pedantic about it, FO was quoteing Jerermy Clarkeson.

and agreeing with it.

Is the US really this bad?

Worse.

Is the US really this bad?

Worse.

I don't know, Jersey's quite nice. Though there are redneck elements in the northwestern boonies.

I don't know, Jersey's quite nice. Though there are redneck elements in the northwestern boonies.

Jersey has that smell, and of course Camden.

I don't know, Jersey's quite nice. Though there are redneck elements in the northwestern boonies.

Jersey? Really, the best example that came to you? That's just scary.

Jersey? Really, the best example that came to you? That's just scary.

Hey! I live here, damnit! Let me believe in my delusions. And no, that's not the smell of Staten Island...it's...umm.......the smell of .....freedom!!!....or something...*wanders off*

Jersey has that smell, and of course Camden.

Oh yeah, great, another dogpile on Jersey.

*sigh*

Hey! I live here, damnit! Let me believe in my delusions. And no, that's not the smell of Staten Island...it's...umm.......the smell of .....freedom!!!....or something...*wanders off*

You keep on going, little trooper, 'till you reach Maryland.

You keep on going, little trooper, 'till you reach Maryland.

Are you kidding me? You're ragging on Jersey, but Maryland's fine? Seriously, what the fuck.

Is the US really this bad?

Worse.

Your bias and ignorance are showing again.

Are you kidding me? You're ragging on Jersey, but Maryland's fine? Seriously, what the fuck.

I didn't say Maryland was fine. It's just better than Jersey, which you must admit doesn't say much about Maryland.

Your bias and ignorance are showing again.

So are your beloved denial and self-delusion.

So are your beloved denial and self-delusion.

Actually, it's yours that's visible.

Actually, it's yours that's visible.

"Nuhuh!" - that's your comeback? Wait... actually, that is the sort of sub par comeback I learnt to expect from you and why I found you not worthwhile. Nevermind.

I don't know, Jersey's quite nice. Though there are redneck elements in the northwestern boonies.

"Kiss her where it smells. Take her to New Jersey." - George Carlin











:D

Do you believe in the Lord? Or are you one of those idiots who claims to, but is a cynic deep down? I bet on the latter. You sound like an idiot.

Nice attempt at flamebaiting. Please...:rolleyes:

Oh yeah, great, another dogpile on Jersey.

*sigh*

This'll make you feel better:

Q. Why did Jersey get all the toxic waste dumps and New York got all the lawyers?
A. Jersey got to pick first.

Oh yeah, great, another dogpile on Jersey.

*sigh*

You know what PA calls NJ? A tsunami break. :D

You know what PA calls NJ? A tsunami break. :D

The jokes are fun but everyone from NJ has already hear them. Here are some interesting facts about the horrible state of NJ. Formerly wealthiest state in the union now #2. #1 in sending students to college and # 1 in people with graduate and post graduate degrees. NJ is the world leader in Biotech and pharmacuticals. NJ has everything you could want: beaches, cities, mountains, parks, lakes, Atlantic City (not my favorite), close proximity to Philly and NYC... some of the best restaurants in the country, great museums and cultural experiences, etc. Being a lifelong resident of NY and NJ has been a wonderful experience for me and I highly suggest people visit before judging it. As for smells, Staten Island leads them all with the Fresh (Arthur) Kills Landfill. But I still love the bagels and pizza there which are only second to my birthplace of Brooklyn.

"Nuhuh!" - that's your comeback? Wait... actually, that is the sort of sub par comeback I learnt to expect from you and why I found you not worthwhile. Nevermind.

I'll take that as a tacit admission that you are, indeed the one whose sad little mind is infested ugly biases and delusion. You truly are a pathetic and contemptible creature, and for that, I pity you.

"Nuhuh!" - that's your comeback? Wait... actually, that is the sort of sub par comeback I learnt to expect from you and why I found you not worthwhile. Nevermind.

I'll take that as a tacit admission that you are, indeed the one whose sad little mind is infested ugly biases and delusion. You truly are a pathetic and contemptible creature, and for that, I pity you.

Caught with your pants down, so clearly showing the ugliness that you are known for, all you can resort to is pathetic little mean spirited quips. In fact, that's all you do on these forums, and that's why you keep getting deleted and banned.

Are you kidding me? You're ragging on Jersey, but Maryland's fine? Seriously, what the fuck.

at least its not forgotten totally like poor delaware is.

I'll take that as a tacit admission that you are, indeed the one whose sad little mind is infested ugly biases and delusion. You truly are a pathetic and contemptible creature, and for that, I pity you.

Woe is I, but still not so woe as to have to live in that horrible place, so I'll always have you beat.

Caught with your pants down, so clearly showing the ugliness that you are known for, all you can resort to is pathetic little mean spirited quips. In fact, that's all you do on these forums, and that's why you keep getting deleted and banned.

Oh, noes. You gloated over a moderation decision in your ésprit de l'éscalier. Woe is you.

As a non-American, I get the impression that the large geographical area of the country creates a kind of ... lag? I.e. progress takes time to reach all the parts of the country, so you get the "rednecks" in the places where people are still a bit more primitive.

I probably didn't explain that well, but the main point is that I think the large size of the country allows it to be both a centre of social and technological progress in the world and at the same time have some people with very backwards ideas.