NationStates Jolt Archive

...He's just a poor old man now. Yes, he trained Nazi attack dogs when he was younger, but it was that or be declared an enemy to the Nazi party...

Nazi attack dogs???

That is unfair. Those dogs were just following orders. Most of them weren't actual Nazi party members and very few of those puppies knew the full extent of the holocaust. Besides, if they had refused orders, they would have been hit with a rolled up newspaper.

You cite their crimes as those violating countries in peace (if I'm understanding this correctly). Let me point you to Saddam's violations before the Iraq War: 4, maybe 3 depending on whether or not you consider mustard gas unethical conduct. Not unethical conduct of war (is a gun really so much more ethical, though, than chlorine or mustard?), perhaps, but certainly unethical conduct against humanity.

Again, I point you to the hundreds of thousands of Kurds (an ethnic minority in the middle east) Saddam had gassed in public squares and parks.

Is it a crime against peace when you attack to depose a man who uses outlawed weapons against hundreds of thousands of civilians?

That would be all well and good if that really was the US government's intentions. If it had been, the international community would have likely went along with it, and the UN Security Council would have authorized action against Iraq, and there would have been no violation of international law.

But, a number of things complicate this. First of all, we already know that Bush defrauded the Congress and the people of this country, and sold them a bad bill of goods. Second, Iraq has been turned into a US banana republic. US business and economic interests will continue to dominate Iraq for decades to come.

Added to this, Saddam Hussein was a US ally when he committed most of his war crimes, with the support of the Reagan administration. His chemical weapons were purchased from the United States, and the US turned a blind eye against his crimes. When he gassed the Kurds, and rounded up dissidents, Reagan didn't condemn him; Rumsefeld went over to talk with him as "our good friend and ally." He was an US client up until the moment he invaded Kuwait in 91.

Nazi attack dogs???

That is unfair. Those dogs were just following orders. Most of them weren't actual Nazi party members and very few of those puppies knew the full extent of the holocaust. Besides, if they had refused orders, they would have been hit with a rolled up newspaper.

Oh my God. :) This is the best post about Nazis EVER.

Have yourself a cookie, sir. You've earned it.

That would be all well and good if that really was the US government's intentions. If it had been, the international community would have likely went along with it, and the UN Security Council would have authorized action against Iraq, and there would have been no violation of international law.

But, a number of things complicate this. First of all, we already know that Bush defrauded the Congress and the people of this country, and sold them a bad bill of goods. Second, Iraq has been turned into a US banana republic. US business and economic interests will continue to dominate Iraq for decades to come.

Added to this, Saddam Hussein was a US ally when he committed most of his war crimes, with the support of the Reagan administration. His chemical weapons were purchased from the United States, and the US turned a blind eye against his crimes. When he gassed the Kurds, and rounded up dissidents, Reagan didn't condemn him; Rumsefeld went over to talk with him as "our good friend and ally." He was an US client up until the moment he invaded Kuwait in 91.
Pretty accurate summary to my estimation!! Time to get out the war crime scorecard?

That would be all well and good if that really was the US government's intentions. If it had been, the international community would have likely went along with it, and the UN Security Council would have authorized action against Iraq, and there would have been no violation of international law.

But, a number of things complicate this. First of all, we already know that Bush defrauded the Congress and the people of this country, and sold them a bad bill of goods. Second, Iraq has been turned into a US banana republic. US business and economic interests will continue to dominate Iraq for decades to come.

Added to this, Saddam Hussein was a US ally when he committed most of his war crimes, with the support of the Reagan administration. His chemical weapons were purchased from the United States, and the US turned a blind eye against his crimes. When he gassed the Kurds, and rounded up dissidents, Reagan didn't condemn him; Rumsfeld went over to talk with him as "our good friend and ally." He was an US client up until the moment he invaded Kuwait in 91.

I believe my first post on this topic addressed that. The war could have been justified, as there were sufficient reasons to go do it, but none of those were the reasons presented.

In another note, what does Reagan supporting Saddam have to do with Bush going in and, despite the false reasons given, fixing a mistake (caused in large part by a previous administration) and deposing a dangerous tyrant?

I'm willing to bet the self-same left wing posters who dispute capital punishment on the grounds that people can change will clamour to see him deported. I see little point deporting him; he seems to be genuinely contrite, and is hardly threatening to claim the western USA as Lebensraum.

Regarding the Soviets, I quite agree. One might note that Stalin, for essentially personal reasons, happily saw upwards of 10 million Russians die in the Yezhovshina, yet is he, and the men he employed, considered in the same light as the SS? No no no. They won the war.

Regarding the Soviets, I quite agree. One might note that Stalin, for essentially personal reasons, happily saw upwards of 10 million Russians die in the Yezhovshina, yet is he, and the men he employed, considered in the same light as the SS? No no no. They won the war.

This, and other like instances have caused me to go on a life journey to peel away all layers of bias I possibly can, and think completely objectively.

This, and other like instances have caused me to go on a life journey to peel away all layers of bias I possibly can, and think completely objectively.

Is my sarcasm-ometer buzzing correctly?

Some hard-core Nazi hunters have discovered a former Nazi SS member living the rest of his life peacefully in Atlanta. Homeland Security wants to deport him. What do ya'll think?

link (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14243131/detail.html)

PROTIP: Not all SS members were doing the holocaust.

Well it could be just me, but I would think there is a slight difference in using an attack dog to guard convicted felons and an attack dog used on political prisoners and people inprisoned due to their genetic make-up.

In either case, they're prisoners. Training attack dogs to differentiate between escaping felons and political prisoners is several kinds of stupid. Dogs don't make the distinction. An escapee to the dog is an escapee.


Does it make him a war criminal? Probably not, but it doesn't make him a saint either.

If not being a saint was grounds for deportation and murder, there'd be precious few humans left in the world.

If not being a saint was grounds for deportation and murder, there'd be precious few humans left in the world.

Murder? precisely what the fuck are you talking about? As for grounds for deportation, there need not be one. He's not a citizen.

Is my sarcasm-ometer buzzing correctly?

I guess not.

Its Atlanta. Georgia.
*goes back to sleep*

Actually I'm fairly certain that the Nuremburg trials explicitly rejected the arguments of many guards that they "did not know what was going on." Yes, the average citizen may not have known, but the guards in the camps sure as fuck did.

Well then, that solves the argument. He wasn't a guard at the camp. He was a dog trainer who worked out of Berlin. The news piece is filled with weasel words that automatically put guilt without trial.

That's nice. That's not what I asked you. Did you mean to compare the use of dogs to apprehend and guard criminals to the use of dogs to keep in innocent people who were executed by the millions in death camps.

That's a stupid comparison. The dogs were trained to guard prisoners. Dogs don't make distinctions between which flavor of human is a political prisoner or convicted felon.

Maybe you'll sue firearms manufacturers for firearms related crimes next.

Or in a more related vein. Why aren't you arguing for IBM to go to court? They had a lot more to do with making the identification of people for the exterminations easier and more efficient with their early data sifters and punch card machines.

Murder? precisely what the fuck are you talking about? As for grounds for deportation, there need not be one. He's not a citizen.

I'm referring to IDF's trigger happy gleefulness.

The news piece is filled with weasel words that automatically put guilt without trial.

and I'll ask again, who exactly is putting him on a criminal trial?

and I'll ask again, who exactly is putting him on a criminal trial?

Nobody is. But they're willing to bypass the trial and go straight to the conviction. IDF wants an execution. You, not sure what you want, but it's apparently guilt without trial too.

And I bet you argued against Gitmo prisoners being held without trial

Well then, that solves the argument. He wasn't a guard at the camp. He was a dog trainer who worked out of Berlin. The news piece is filled with weasel words that automatically put guilt without trial.

You seem to have an allergy to facts. Hopefully it isn't fatal.

Henss admits to having been a guard at Dachau and Buchenwald.

That the jews are going to force this guy out of the country?

Nice.

IDF has gone on record stating he wants to kill him. And he's a Jew.

You seem to have an allergy to facts. Hopefully it isn't fatal.

Henss admits to having been a guard at Dachau and Buchenwald.

Was it? Must have missed that bit. But again, we'd have to look deeper would we?

Newsflash; Nazis living everywhere. If you were male and German in the 40's, you were a Nazi.

This sort of mentality just goes to show how stupid and misinformed people are about world history, Do those German males living in the 40's who were locked up in concertration camps NAZI's I am sure that there were also many jews who were born in Germany considered themselves German as well I suppose they must be NAZI's as well.

As for deporting the old man no he should not be deported it was over 60 years ago that this happened and while people should remember it and all facts it is about time people stopped going on about about. There have been greater acts of genocide then this detail of war

Are you certain you've read the article? Besides being a nazi, he was also a willing member of the SS, who guarded prisoners of the Dachau concentration camp.

Being a nazi in those days doesn't automatically a war criminal, but being a member of the waffen ss, while stationed at dachau of all places, makes it a bit harder to proclaim your moral innocence.

Mittea you should review your history Dachau was the only concentration camp that did not execute prisoners while facillities were built to gas large amount of people at a time they were never used and this is according to camp records, former prisoners of the complex, guards and the US Army who closed the center down in 1945

and I'll ask again, who exactly is putting him on a criminal trial?

Who said anything about a trial here?

For the sake of debate some people here have declared him guilty from the news article. Details were rather lacking.

TCT has at least shown he is not a citizen and admitted to things that probably due warrant deporting him.

IDF wants an execution.

That's nice, I'm not IDF. Neither are many other jews. He's himself, I am not him.

You, not sure what you want, but it's apparently guilt without trial too.

And I bet you argued against Gitmo prisoners being held without trial

I'll ask again, who is holding him? Who is convicting him? Who in the government has wanted to put him in ail or convict him of a crime?

I believe my first post on this topic addressed that. The war could have been justified, as there were sufficient reasons to go do it, but none of those were the reasons presented.

In another note, what does Reagan supporting Saddam have to do with Bush going in and, despite the false reasons given, fixing a mistake (caused in large part by a previous administration) and deposing a dangerous tyrant?

It goes back to elementary morals: two wrongs do not make a right. Bush went about getting his way the completely wrong way. He violated international law, and whether or not he fixed the mistake of Reagan, he created his own new mess and and own set of injustices. The war profiteering and crony capitalism come to mind, as well as the largely indiscriminate bombing prior to the invasion that ruined Iraq's infrastructure (hmm, guess who is rebuilding it: Bush cronies!), and killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians. The mass starvations and disease epidemics that followed the wholesale sacking of Iraq's infrastructure have killed over half a million people. This blood is on Bush's hands, given that Bush defied international law to reach this end.

TCT has at least shown he is not a citizen and admitted to things that probably due warrant deporting him.

had you been paying attention you would have noticed I said that ten fucking pages ago

Was it? Must have missed that bit. But again, we'd have to look deeper would we?

Look deeper. I already linked the deportation papers (http://www.wsbtv.com/download/2007/1001/14243466.pdf).

But since many seem to lazy to read the link (but nonetheless have the energy to opine on the case), here are the allegations against Henss:

1. You were born on September 2, 1922, in Horbach, Germany.

2. You are not a citizen or national of the United States.

3. You are a citizen of Germany.

4. You entered the United States from Germany at the port of New York, New York, on or about August 17, 1955 as an immigrant.

5. You joined the Hitler Youth organization in Germany in 1934 and subsequently joined the Nazi Party in Germany in September 1940.

6. You commenced service in the Waffen SS on or about February 5, 1942 in the elite unit "Liebstandarte SS Adolf Hitler."

7. During 1942, you volunteered to become an SS dog handler.

8. The SS employed SS dog handlers at Nazi concentration camps to deploy trained attack dogs to patrol the camps, escort and guard prisoners, search for escaped prisoners and prevent prisoners from escaping.

9. As an SS dog handler, you served at the Dachau and Buchenwald Concentration Camps in Germany.

10. While serving at the Dachau and Buchenwald concentration camps, you trained personnel in dog-handling techniques so that they could utilize dogs to prevent the escape of concentration camp prisoners.

11. SS regulations concerning dog-handling at concentration camps in effect during the time of your service specified that dogs were to be trained to "bite without mercy" and to literally tear prisoners to pieces if they attempted to escape.

12. While serving at the Dachau and Buchenwald concentration camps, you were armed and guarded prisoners with a trained attack dog, to prevent their escape.

13. While at the Dachau and Buchenwald concentration camps, you were armed and guarded forced labor details with a trained attack dog to prevent prisoners from escaping.

14. You served at the Dachau and Buchenwald concentration camps at various times during the period from October 1942 to late 1944.

15. In a sworn statement given to representatives of OSI on March 13, 2007, you admitted, inter alia, that you served as an SS guard at the Dachau and Buchenwald concentration camps for 2-3 months each, that you guarded forced labor details of prisoners at both camps while armed and that you instructed other SS personel on dog-handling techniques.

16. Persons were imprisoned at the Dachau Concentration Camp because of their race, religion, national origin and political opinion. Prisoners there were subjected to severe mistreatment, including subjection to slave labor, inhumane and involuntary medical experimentation, inadequate food, shelter, and medical care, physical and emotional abuse, torture and murder. In total, approximately 38,000 prisoners died at the camp.

17. Persons were imprisoned at the Buchenwald Concentration Camp because of their race, religion, national origin and political opinion. Prisoners there were subjected to severe mistreatment, including subjection to slave labor, inhumane and involuntary medical experimentation, inadequate food, shelter, and medical care, physical and emotional abuse, torture and murder. In total, approximately 55,000 prisoners died there.

AND on the basis of the foregoing allegations, it is charged that you are subject to removal pursuant to the following provision of law:

Section 237(a)(4)(D) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), 8 U.S.C. 1227(a)(4)(D), as an alien described in Secition 212(a)(3)(E)(i), 8 U.S.C. 1182(a)(3)(E)(i), of the INA, in that as a dog trainer and handler at Dachau and Buchenwald Concentration Camps, you ordered, incited, assisted, or otherwise participated in the persecution of persons because of race, religion, national origin or political opinion between March 23, 1933, and May 8, 1945, under the direction of or in association with the Nazi government of Germany.

Meh.

TCT's link of the deportation order is a tad more valid then "because I said so"

you mean the deportation papers that were linked on the damned page of the article?

The deportation papers that you could have read for yourself if you took five fucking minutes to do your own research instead of waiting for someone to spoon feed information to you that's one link over? Or, for that matter, had you actually read the article itself you would have noted it says quite clearly:

Officials said Henss entered the United States in 1955 after concealing his concentration camp service.

The document says Henss admitted on March 13 that he served as an SS guard at Dachau and Buchenwald for two to three months each as a dog handler.

Do you want me to come over to your house and chew your own food for you? Seriously, forgive me for going into a topic about an article and assuming people discussing it would have actually, you know, looked at it. Next time I'm involved in a discussion with you, I will know not to assume that you would have actually taken efforts to ensure you are even rudimentarily informed about the topic you're discussing.

Precisely.

Secondly, have any of you spoken with Eastern Europeans? Hungarians, in particular, always speak of how much more they feared the Soviets than the Germans. The Soviet regime killed tens of millions more than did the Germans. That's a fact. Where are the war trials for these criminals? Oh, my bad, they won the war.

The Hungarians feared them with good cause. The Holodomor, the Red Army raping their way through Eastern Europe. If I was an Eastern European, and the choice was between joining the Nazis or the Soviets, I'd sign up for the Wehrmacht in a heartbeat.

you mean the deportation papers that were linked on the damned page of the article?

The deportation papers that you could have read for yourself if you took five fucking minutes to do your own research instead of waiting for someone to spoon feed information to you that's one link over? Or, for that matter, had you actually read the article itself you would have noted it says quite clearly:

Do you want me to come over to your house and chew your own food for you? Seriously, forgive me for going into a topic about an article and assuming people discussing it would have actually, you know, looked at it. Next time I'm involved in a discussion with you, I will know not to assume that you would have actually taken efforts to ensure you are even rudimentarily informed about the topic you're discussing.

Aww And I thought you loved me. *sobs*

There is that nice little function to block me.

Why not use it?

In regards to the original topic: It's hard to hold animosity against a senile 85 year old man. On the other hand, some crimes are just so horrific that you just can't ever let them be subject to a statute of limitations. So, with regret, I'd deport him.
There, that answer should piss off everyone.

He should be deported back to Illinois.

NOTE: Even if you add the values of the "deport" and "execute"; they still loose.

Look deeper. I already linked the deportation papers (http://www.wsbtv.com/download/2007/1001/14243466.pdf).

I had replied before I reached your post.


I'll ask again, who is holding him? Who is convicting him? Who in the government has wanted to put him in ail or convict him of a crime?

Holding him? Not too sure. Has he been arrested? Convicting him? Some NSGers. Don't know if they're holding government jobs though.

I was talking about certain NSGer's anyway. Particularly the "kill him now" crowd.

Deportation is a legit thing because regardless of his past, he did lie on immigration papers.

Seems to make sense to let him stay. Everybody deserves a second chance.

Dahmer, Bundy, Berkowitz, Manson...Sure, why not give them another chance, too.

I'm not reading through this whole thread so sorry if this has been asked/answered, but where is he going to be deported, and does he theoretically face the death penalty?

He should be deported back to Illinois.

Illinois Nazis. I hate Illinois Nazis.

Illinois Nazis. I hate Illinois Nazis.

Nazis from Illinois or Nazis in Illinois?

Nazis from Illinois or Nazis in Illinois?
Blues Brothers Nazis. I figured that's what Gartref was getting at.

Look deeper. I already linked the deportation papers (http://www.wsbtv.com/download/2007/1001/14243466.pdf).

But since many seem to lazy to read the link (but nonetheless have the energy to opine on the case), here are the allegations against Henss:

1. You were born on September 2, 1922, in Horbach, Germany.

2. You are not a citizen or national of the United States.

3. You are a citizen of Germany.

4. You entered the United States form Germany at the port of New York, New York, on or about August 17, 1955 as an immigrant.

5. You joined the Hitler Youth organization in Germany in 1934 and subsequently joined the Nazi Party in Germany in September 1940.

6. You commenced service in the Waffen SS on or about February 5, 1942 in the elite unit "Liebstandarte SS Adolf Hitler."

7. During 1942, you volunteered to become an SS dog handler.

8. The SS employed SS dog handlers at Nazi concentration camps to deploy trained attack dogs to patrol the camps, escort and guard prisoners, search for escaped prisoners and prevent prisoners from escaping.

9. As an SS dog handler, you served at the Dachau and Buchenwald Concentration Camps in Germany.

10. While serving at the Dachau and Buchenwald concentration camps, you trained personnel in dog-handling techniques so that they could utilize dogs to prevent the escape of concentration camp prisoners.

11. SS regulations concerning dog-handling at concentration camps in effect during the time of your service specified that dogs were to be trained to "bite without mercy" and to literally tear prisoners to pieces if they attempted to escape.

12. While serving at the Dachau and Buchenwald concentration camps, you were armed and guarded prisoners with a trained attack dog, to prevent their escape.

13. While at the Dachau and Buchenwald concentration camps, you were armed and guarded forced labor details with a trained attack dog to prevent prisoners from escaping.

14. You served at the Dachau and Buchenwald concentration camps at various times during the period from October 1942 to late 1944.

15. In a sworn statement given to representatives of OSI on March 13, 2007, you admitted, inter alia, that you served as an SS guard at the Dachau and Buchenwald concentration camps for 2-3 months each, that you guarded forced labor details of prisoners at both camps while armed and that you instructed other SS personel on dog-handling techniques.

16. Persons were imprisoned at the Dachau Concentration Camp because of their race, religion, national origin and political opinion. Prisoners there were subjected to severe mistreatment, including subjection to slave labor, inhumane and involuntary medical experimentation, inadequate food, shelter, and medical care, physical and emotional abuse, torture and murder. In total, approximately 38,000 prisoners died at the camp.

17. Persons were imprisoned at the Buchenwald Concentration Camp because of their race, religion, national origin and political opinion. Prisoners there were subjected to severe mistreatment, including subjection to slave labor, inhumane and involuntary medical experimentation, inadequate food, shelter, and medical care, physical and emotional abuse, torture and murder. In total, approximately 55,000 prisoners died there.

AND on the basis of the foregoing allegations, it is charged that you are subject to removal pursuant to the following provision of law:

Section 237(a)(4)(D) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), 8 U.S.C. 1227(a)(4)(D), as an alien described in Secition 212(a)(3)(E)(i), 8 U.S.C. 1182(a)(3)(E)(i), of the INA, in that as a dog trainer and handler at Dachau and Buchenwald Concentration Camps, you ordered, incited, assisted, or otherwise participated in the persecution of persons because of race, religion, national origin or political opinion between March 23, 1933, and May 8, 1945, under the direction of or in association with the Nazi government of Germany.

Assuming all of the above are in fact true etc etc..more then enough grounds to deport him or even execute him if they really wanted to..10 out of 17 charges are damning enough...9-17 should pretty much seal the sick sobs fate.. and to get only deportation he should thank his lucky stars..

Blues Brothers Nazis. I figured that's what Gartref was getting at.


I have no idea what you're talking about.

Some hard-core Nazi hunters have discovered a former Nazi SS member living the rest of his life peacefully in Atlanta. Homeland Security wants to deport him. What do ya'll think?

link (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14243131/detail.html)

No. Just let him be. He has the right to live there. Albeit he was a Nazi, he still has the right to live in this country.

No. Just let him be. He has the right to live there. Albeit he was a Nazi, he still has the right to live in this country.

Um, no, no he does not. He's not a US citizen, he has no particular right to be here.

Um, no, no he does not. He's not a US citizen, he has no particular right to be here.

Maybe he's hoping to get amnesty from our congress like the rest of the illegals even though we the people have already said hell no...but since when do our elected officials listen to us :rolleyes:

Um, no, no he does not. He's not a US citizen, he has no particular right to be here.

Ah. I knew I'd miss something like that somehow.

A guy living in Georgia who trained attack dogs for the SS??? Is this guy related to Michael Vick?

A guy living in Georgia who trained attack dogs for the SS??? Is this guy related to Michael Vick?

Ah interesting question...deport them both...

He's being extradited for trial, and the Hague isn't a kangaroo court. He'll have his day in court that should have happened 50 some-odd years ago.

If he's truly remorseful and expresses as much in his trial, they may grant him some leniency, taking into account that he's a senile old man. If he still maintains that he was right and shows no remorse, then we lose a right bastard.

For all we know, if he is indeed a dotty old coot, they might declare him unfit to stand trial and just keep tabs on him for the rest of his life.

It's a day in court. Justice should be served. That's all.

He's being extradited for trial, and the Hague isn't a kangaroo court. He'll have his day in court that should have happened 50 some-odd years ago.

If he's truly remorseful and expresses as much in his trial, they may grant him some leniency, taking into account that he's a senile old man. If he still maintains that he was right and shows no remorse, then we lose a right bastard.

For all we know, if he is indeed a dotty old coot, they might declare him unfit to stand trial and just keep tabs on him for the rest of his life.

It's a day in court. Justice should be served. That's all.

Self-righteous buffoon, you are. :rolleyes:

No. Just let him be. He has the right to live there. Albeit he was a Nazi, he still has the right to live in this country.



No, no he doesn't legally. No matter what his "job" function was he was still involved in the murder of millions of people. There were those who did nothing, those that participated, and those that fought back. Those that actively participated in the murders and the plot to take over the world should be hunted down and tried for there involvement. Old age doesn't not give you a free pass on all the evil you've committed. My Oma or Omi as we called her, was put in a camp for trying to help people so she had the right to live here and be at peace. He shouldn't be allowed to stay here and hide. America is not a bed to hide under or at least it shouldn't be.

I'll take the to mean you're against justice.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Of course you don't (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGp7IFc5jbc).

Assuming all of the above are in fact true etc etc..more then enough grounds to deport him or even execute him if they really wanted to..10 out of 17 charges are damning enough...9-17 should pretty much seal the sick sobs fate.. and to get only deportation he should thank his lucky stars..

Are you stupid? That list is full of shit. It basically accuses him of single handedly perpetrating the Holocaust, like a busy Hannibal Lecter.

Maybe we should kill the Germans that cleaned the toilets in the camps...

By my reading of this, he did commit a crime.He lied on his citizenship application about his membership of the SS.

After wading through page after page of people quite hasty to make judgment about what exactly happened in WWII, why the deportation is happening, moral judgments, etc... this post makes the most sense to me.

Ballotonia

oh for crying out loud
read about his glorious unit first:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_SS_Division_Leibstandarte_SS_Adolf_Hitler
only later start judging him or not. All Waffen SS soldiers were the most hated for what they did and what they stood for, so it requires a lot of clearing things up before you actually may clearly say "he was just a dog trainer". So he trained dogs to kill people, get it?

Anyway I don't believe "he was the only Leibstandarde SS Adolf H angel, because he just trained dogs". WTF. Do you guys use your brains at all? And even if he were 120 years old he should be put on trial and fairly judged.

Don't forget about war. Ever.

Excuse me, sir, but I live not 20 minutes away from there. My friend lives down the street from that man, and public opinion around here has nothing to do with being a Yankee. I've lived here my whole and can honestly say that this forum is the first place I've actually heard anyone say he should be deported or really dealt with in any way.

He's just a poor old man now. Yes, he trained Nazi attack dogs when he was younger, but it was that or be declared an enemy to the Nazi party.

If this man is going to be judged for things he did to avoid being prosecuted by a fascist government, why not judge the Pope the same way? He was in Hitler Youth, after all. More than 60 years ago this man had little choice other than to aid in war crimes, and the Pope had to be a member of Hitler Youth.

...this forum is the first place I've actually heard anyone say he should be deported or really dealt with in any way.Dont worry about that.. this Forum is special, for it has the widest spectrum of viewpoints -I ever seen- in the English World Wide W.
This Forum is the Full enchilada.

Thats why I like it so much.

Maybe we should kill the Germans that cleaned the toilets in the camps...YEAH.. kill the people making the Barb-wire for the camps too.
and kill all drivers -of the trucks- bringing the barb wire.

60 years later? No thanks. There isn't a statute of limitations or something?For War crimes?

I think you are exempted only if you are a US citizen.. or something like that..

???

I'll take the to mean you're against justice.

He trained dogs. Whoopde-fucking-do. It's hardly as though he personally turned on very tap is it?

If you seek to incarceratethis particular octogenarian, surely you must then seek out every other German to have been vaguely associated with the SS?

No, I'm comparing people on this board who claim that this man was oh so very innocent because...He is innocent until proven guilty.

and the question "guilty of What?" is still standing.

I'm avoiding it because it's fucking stupid.

1) The hitler youth was a political organization. It's not a crime to be in a political organization. Political affiliation isn't illegal. It's what you DO in that political affiliation that matters

2) the pope is not a resident of the United States like this man is, so the fact that this man is facing a deportation hearing...really isn't relevant. He's not being arrested for anything. What are we gonna do about the fact that the pope was a hitler youth? deport him from a country he isn't a resident of?

3) even if this WERE a crime in the US, the pope is a head of state and immune from US laws.

What the holy fuck is your point, exactly?Tell that to Noriega.

Okay what I was getting at if he knew what was going on...just because he was training dogs doesn't make him innocent thus that defense is complete bull..especially if he actually was present at a camp..dog trainer or not...

Mal I'm multi tasking..replying to posts as I can and you are as ignorant as AP ..for god sakes you try and justify Hezbollah killing civilians on AIM thus you lose any creditability you would have before you even begin to post..wha ???

what has Hezbollah to do with this 85 years old man ????

Wtf is it with you making that shit up about Hezbollah? Stop making that crap up...exactamente.

He is innocent until proven guilty.

and the question "guilty of What?" is still standing.

In 1944 one of his dogs was sh*tting on the grass in the camp.

Arrest him!

I have no idea what you're talking about.
There was a scene early in the Blues Brothers movie ( watch it, you'll enjoy it )
where Jake and Elwood come upon some Nazis demonstrating in an Illinois park. Elwood asks what's going on, a cop tells him. Elwood says "Illinois Nazis". Then Jake says "I hate Illinois Nazis". Elwood drives through the middle of their demonstration, forcing them to jump into a pond and creates a subplot for the movie.

You mean if the pope wasn't actually the pope, and just some schmuck who happened to be living in america, should he be deported because of being in hitler youth?

Depends, what'd he do in the hitler youth? Prison Guard.

In 1944 one of his dogs was sh*tting on your lawn.

Arrest him!!@#O(#$({*&)+@#|"}{": Mother fucker Anti-semite Islamophobe Nazi son of a bitch.. send him to the Israeli Gas chamber!! he fucking allowed his fucking dog to shit on my fucking lawn. :mp5::mp5::sniper::mp5: :D

Murder? precisely what the fuck are you talking about? As for grounds for deportation, there need not be one. :rolleyes:

then why hold a deportation "hearing"?

just put him on a damn plane -one way ticket- for Israel.

That's nice, I'm not IDF. Neither are many other jews. He's himself, I am not him.you may be a more reasonable Jew than IDF.

but -based on the available information- .. you would still send this 85 years old man to Israel.. wouldn't you?

There was a scene early in the Blues Brothers movie ( watch it, you'll enjoy it )
where Jake and Elwood come upon some Nazis demonstrating in an Illinois park. Elwood asks what's going on, a cop tells him. Elwood says "Illinois Nazis". Then Jake says "I hate Illinois Nazis". Elwood drives through the middle of their demonstration, forcing them to jump into a pond and creates a subplot for the movie.

Wasn't the leader the "Very interesting" guy from the old laughin show?

:rolleyes:

then why hold a deportation "hearing"?

just put him on a damn plane -one way ticket- for Israel.

why hold the hearing? because he has the right to show evidence that he did not lie on his entry application to the United States. If he can...maybe he can't...

But he still has the right to the hearing.

but -based on the available information- .. you would still send this 85 years old man to Israel.. wouldn't you?

Who the fuck is talking about sending him to Israel? No, really, I'm serious, where in the article did it say anyone was seeking extradition? Where in the article did it say Israel was going to go through with criminal charges? Where in fact has it said Israel, or any other country, was even considering criminal charges?

This story is about the fact that the man lied on his entry application to the United States. That's grounds for deportation. There's no talk of extradition, there's no talk of criminal charges in the US, Israel, or anywhere else. But this man is an illegal alien, and they want to deport him

As to deport him to where? Probably back home to Germany

Mittea you should review your history Dachau was the only concentration camp that did not execute prisoners while facillities were built to gas large amount of people at a time they were never used and this is according to camp records, former prisoners of the complex, guards and the US Army who closed the center down in 1945

Christ, some people are really getting on my nerves...-where- did I ever say Dachau was a deathcamp like Auschwitz? Did I ever say he -is- involved in pushing the switch of the gaschambers? Or maybe pulled the trigger? I just said he -might- be involved. As a former SS man, that possibility exists or people think it exists so its only in his advantage that we make sure his history is cleared from it.

So instead of asking me to getting my facts right you should not accuse me of saying things I never said or imply that I did. I actually specifically looked up the fact that Dachau wasn't a death camp so I would not make the mistake of posting non-sense and get blamed for posting bs. Apperently it didn't work.

Second of all there are many ways to commit crimes against humanity besides being involved with the gaschambers.
Actually Dachau was still a hell hole with many people dying due to TB, malnutrition and it is assumed that a few died due to unrecorded executions. So your claim that no executions occured is disputed at best. In other words: There is a -chance- that crimes against humanity can be possible with former "employes".

Oh but wait....did Mittea just say that nasty old ex-nazi ss'er killed or raped inmates for fun there? I don't see him spefically mentioning it, but surely he is implying it?

No, I did not. I'll make myself clear on the issue for a final time, because if i don't people will throw random accusations at me again or claim im babbling non-sense (which I might, but at least pin me down on non-sense I actually said).

So here goes:

If the man commited a very serious crime during the war as a ss'er (or commited as a baker for all I care) then he should be punished for it even though 60 years have passed because I think as does international law that crimes against humanity aren't limited by time.
Did the man commit a serious crime? Judging by the article alone I have to say no, but for the sake of his reputation, it wouldn't hurt to find out. So no, we should not let the matter rest because he is old and therefor a sad sight. If I were him than I would make sure that they would investigate me and come to the conclusion that I was an innocent man who was also a victim of Hitler's crimes. However if he actually commited something unspeakable then I could care less about his current frail nature. You cannot make the crime and guilt go away with crimes against humanity just like you kiss the pain away on the bruises of a fallen child.

Oh but what about the pope? What about Patton? What about O.J.? What about etc etc
Yeah what about them? What do they have to do with the -possible- crime that this man -might- have commited? It has nothing to do with it, besides showing us the hypocrite nature of our world, but does it in any way take away the guilt of criminal nazi's?
If you don't agree be sure to use the following strategy at any given courtroom and see how far it gets you:

"Yeah but...I know this guy X, who killed person Y, yet I'm the one charged with murder on Z? The outrage! If X is off the hook then so should I! Ladies and gentlmen of the jury I rest my case"

You must excuse me for sounding somewhat agitated, but this is the third time people are implying something I never said and oddly enough its getting on my nerves.

PS:

Is it just merely me or is NSG the place to be if you want your views taken entirely out of context in the same thread three times in a row? Maybe it's coincidence or merely because people seem to be still on edge with anything that's related to Nazi's and WWII, but it sure isn't fun.

Wasn't the leader the "Very interesting" guy from the old laughin show?
Yep, Henry Gibson.

No, really, I'm serious, where in the article did it say anyone was seeking extradition? Where in the article did it say Israel was going to go through with criminal charges? Where in fact has it said Israel, or any other country, was even considering criminal charges?

This story is about the fact that the man lied on his entry application to the United States. That's grounds for deportation. There's no talk of extradition, there's no talk of criminal charges in the US, Israel, or anywhere else. But this man is an illegal alien, and they want to deport him

As to deport him to where? Probably back home to GermanyThese questions (fate of the old man if deported) are going to be answered soon enough.

Neo Art, please don't delude yourself into thinking that Homeland Security are only deporting this guy on the technicality that he lied on his immigration paper's. This man is (definitely not for certain) likely to have criminal charges levied against him at some point by Israel. Maybe not now, but sometime in the future. It's less about deporting an illegal immigrant and more about scoring diplomatic points.

Neo Art, please don't delude yourself into thinking that Homeland Security are only deporting this guy on the technicality that he lied on his immigration paper's. This man is (definitely not for certain) likely to have criminal charges levied against him at some point by Israel. Maybe not now, but sometime in the future. It's less about deporting an illegal immigrant and more about scoring diplomatic points.

The day we cut all diplomatic ties with THAT terrorist state, will be the day I rejoice. Fat chance of that though.

Yep, Henry Gibson.

henry gibson was on laugh-in but artie johnson was the very interesting guy.

You can guarantee that if the Soviets had got hold of him he wouldn't be alive - even if he survived the gulag!

Neo Art, please don't delude yourself into thinking that Homeland Security are only deporting this guy on the technicality that he lied on his immigration paper's. This man is (definitely not for certain) likely to have criminal charges levied against him at some point by Israel. Maybe not now, but sometime in the future. It's less about deporting an illegal immigrant and more about scoring diplomatic points.

you really have a problem with that?

you really have a problem with that?The departement of HomeLand security is about to deport -on a technicality- a 85 years old, former WWII prison/camp guard, that will be -probably- criminally pursued by the state of Israel. Do I have a problem with that?

Of course I do.
I do have a problem with that.

The departement of HomeLand security is about to deport -on a technicality- a 85 years old, former WWII prison/camp guard, that will be -probably- criminally pursued by the state of Israel. Do I have a problem with that?

Of course I do.
I do have a problem with that.

wow.

i have no problem with war criminals being tried no matter what their age.

not that i am saying that this man IS a war criminal. he wont be tried if there is no evidence against him. if there is evidence against him, he wont be convicted unless it meets the legal requirements for guilt.

the israelis arent in the business of lynching former german soldiers.

This does raise an interesting issue: for how long after a crime has been committed can we hold the perpetrator responsible? If I commit a crime now when I'm eighteen could I be charged with it in 80 years time (assuming I'm still alive)?

If the guy was still a die-hard Nazi then I'd support charging him, but judging from the article he's just a confused old man. If he feels and expresses regret for his actions then he shouldn't be charged.

Suppose he was tried in the Hague: those trials can stretch on for years and he's no spring chicken. Putting him on trial would effectively be a life sentence.

i have no problem with war criminals being tried no matter what their age.
ditto

BTW how do you feel by the Bush Gov asking for US soldiers to b exempted from War Crimes courts?
.
not that i am saying that this man IS a war criminal.

>he wont be tried if there is no evidence against him.<> he wont be deported if there is no evidence against him.< (warcrimes evidence)

I changed -just- one word from your post, check it out. (thats the way it should be)
.
.. he wont be convicted unless it meets the legal requirements for guilt. our legal requirements for guilt.? or Israel's legal requirements for guilt.
.
the israelis arent in the business of lynching former german soldiers.Then I guess the state of Israel would not have a problem trying prove him guilty on US soil (US court).

wow.

i have no problem with war criminals being tried no matter what their age.

not that i am saying that this man IS a war criminal. he wont be tried if there is no evidence against him. if there is evidence against him, he wont be convicted unless it meets the legal requirements for guilt.

the israelis arent in the business of lynching former german soldiers.

They should instead send him to a country without a grudge and see how he does with a real trial.

Click Stand;13105203']They should instead send him to a country without a grudge and see how he does with a real trial.

he is being deported not extradited.

i assume he will be deported to germany but if the result of the whole thing is that he is tried in israel i dont see the problem. time doesnt diminish guilt when it comes to war crimes.

ditto

BTW how do you feel by the Bush Gov asking for US soldiers to b exempted from War Crimes courts?
.
> he wont be Deported if there is no evidence against him.< (warcrimes evidence)

I changed -just- one word from your post, check it out.
.
our legal requirements for guilt.? or Israel's legal requirements for guilt.
.
Then I guess the state of Israel would not have a problem trying prove him guilty on an American court?

he has committed no crime in the US except lying on his immigration form. that might rightly result in his being deported. he doesnt have to be guilty of war crimes to be deported from this country

what happens to him after that is his problem.

This does raise an interesting issue: for how long after a crime has been committed can we hold the perpetrator responsible? If I commit a crime now when I'm eighteen could I be charged with it in 80 years time (assuming I'm still alive)?

If the guy was still a die-hard Nazi then I'd support charging him, but judging from the article he's just a confused old man. If he feels and expresses regret for his actions then he shouldn't be charged.

depends on the crime now doesnt it? thats why there are varying degress of statutes of limitations but no time limit on the prosecution of murder.

and most courts do require that you be competent to stand trial. that is a problem for whoever (if anyone) decides to charge him with a crime.

i assume he will be deported to germany but if the result of the whole thing is that he is tried in israel i dont see the problem.
... he doesnt have to be guilty of war crimes to be deported from this country

what happens to him after that is his problem.Like I said:

The departement of HomeLand security is about to deport -on a technicality- a 85 years old, former WWII prison/camp guard, that will be -probably- criminally pursued by the state of Israel. Do I have a problem with that?

Of course I do.
I do have a problem with that.

Like I said:

The departement of HomeLand security is about to deport -on a technicality- a 85 years old, former WWII prison/camp guard, that will be -probably- criminally pursued by the state of Israel. Do I have a problem with that?

Of course I do.
I do have a problem with that.

Umm....hi. We have an extradition treaty with Israel. If Israel wanted to try him, we'd be treaty bound to let them have him. Whether or not he gets deported doesn't change that.

IN FACT, Israel I believe still has the death penalty for Nazis, and, unless I'm wrong, Germany like most european countries will not extradite to a country to be tried for a crime that carries the death penalty. I don't know for sure, but this is just a guess.

As far as prosecution by Israel goes, if that's to happen, he might well be safer in Germany. As I said, the US has an extradition treaty with Israel, which we're bound to whether we deport this guy or not.

Really people, think things through a bit first.

Edit: yup I was right

In December 2005, Germany refused to extradite Mohammed Ali Hamadi -- who was freed on parole by German authorities after serving 19 years of a life sentence for the 1985 hijacking of a TWA airplane -- because he could face the death penalty in the United States on charges of killing a Navy diver in the hijacking.

Germany doesn't extradite when the suspect could face the death penalty. The USA has no such provision. If Israel wanted him extradited to stand charges for war crimes, for which Israel executes people, the US would be treaty bound to oblidge. Germany would not. if Israel really wants to charge him for war crimes, that has exactly nothing to do with deportation, and, frankly, he's safer in Germany.

Like I said:

The departement of HomeLand security is about to deport -on a technicality- a 85 years old, former WWII prison/camp guard, that will be -probably- criminally pursued by the state of Israel. Do I have a problem with that?

Of course I do.
I do have a problem with that.

and like i said.

i have no problems with war criminals* facing prosecution no matter how old they are.





*im not claiming that he is a war criminal

Umm....hi. wassup mate :)
.
We have an extradition treaty with Israel. If Israel wanted to try him, we'd be treaty bound to let them have him.hmmm
You seem to say that we would have no choice.
Is that what your are saying?
.
.. unless I'm wrong, Germany will not extradite to (Israel because Israel has the Death Penalty).
I don't know for sure, but this is just a guess.since this statement is "just a guess".. I am going to "hold my fire".. on this one.
.
Really people, think things through a bit first.I could easily turn you closing statement against you, especially in the immediate context of this post. ... but I wont.

You seem to say that we would have no choice. Is that what your are saying?

If Israel wanted his extradition we'd be treaty bound to extradite him. Germany would not as Germany does not extradite people if they have the risk of the death penalty.

since this statement is "just a guess".. I am going to "hold my fire".. on this one.

Too bad I was right, huh? And, more to point, even if I was entirely wrong, whether Israel puts him on trial has nothing to do with whether he gets deported back to Germany. You keep going on as if that this deportation would lead to his trial in israel. It won't.

You keep going on as if that this deportation would lead to his trial in israel. It won't.Like I said.. the questions about his fate -if deported- will be answered soon enough.. I cant see the future.
.
If Israel wanted his extradition we'd be treaty bound to extradite him. I prefer a yes or no answer.

Once a (treaty) country send the extradition papers.. the US gov has no choice but to send the man.
Yes or No?
.
Too bad I was right, huh? And, more to point, even if I was entirely wrong...this is not a poker game my friend, and even If it was I would not be bluffing.

Maybe we should kill the Germans that cleaned the toilets in the camps...

YEAH.. kill the people making the Barb-wire for the camps too.
and kill all drivers -of the trucks- bringing the barb wire.

He trained dogs. Whoopde-fucking-do. It's hardly as though he personally turned on very tap is it?

If you seek to incarceratethis particular octogenarian, surely you must then seek out every other German to have been vaguely associated with the SS?

He is innocent until proven guilty.

and the question "guilty of What?" is still standing.

In 1944 one of his dogs was sh*tting on the grass in the camp.

Arrest him!

Because I went to the trouble of typing up all the allegations against Mr. Henss and none of you have responded but continue to joke about his lack of guilt, either you are too lazy to read the thread or are being deliberately ignorant. I'm afraid the later is the case, but I will nonetheless repeat my earlier post:

I already linked the deportation papers (http://www.wsbtv.com/download/2007/1001/14243466.pdf).

Here are the allegations against Henss:

1. You were born on September 2, 1922, in Horbach, Germany.

2. You are not a citizen or national of the United States.

3. You are a citizen of Germany.

4. You entered the United States from Germany at the port of New York, New York, on or about August 17, 1955 as an immigrant.

5. You joined the Hitler Youth organization in Germany in 1934 and subsequently joined the Nazi Party in Germany in September 1940.

6. You commenced service in the Waffen SS on or about February 5, 1942 in the elite unit "Liebstandarte SS Adolf Hitler."

7. During 1942, you volunteered to become an SS dog handler.

8. The SS employed SS dog handlers at Nazi concentration camps to deploy trained attack dogs to patrol the camps, escort and guard prisoners, search for escaped prisoners and prevent prisoners from escaping.

9. As an SS dog handler, you served at the Dachau and Buchenwald Concentration Camps in Germany.

10. While serving at the Dachau and Buchenwald concentration camps, you trained personnel in dog-handling techniques so that they could utilize dogs to prevent the escape of concentration camp prisoners.

11. SS regulations concerning dog-handling at concentration camps in effect during the time of your service specified that dogs were to be trained to "bite without mercy" and to literally tear prisoners to pieces if they attempted to escape.

12. While serving at the Dachau and Buchenwald concentration camps, you were armed and guarded prisoners with a trained attack dog, to prevent their escape.

13. While at the Dachau and Buchenwald concentration camps, you were armed and guarded forced labor details with a trained attack dog to prevent prisoners from escaping.

14. You served at the Dachau and Buchenwald concentration camps at various times during the period from October 1942 to late 1944.

15. In a sworn statement given to representatives of OSI on March 13, 2007, you admitted, inter alia, that you served as an SS guard at the Dachau and Buchenwald concentration camps for 2-3 months each, that you guarded forced labor details of prisoners at both camps while armed and that you instructed other SS personel on dog-handling techniques.

16. Persons were imprisoned at the Dachau Concentration Camp because of their race, religion, national origin and political opinion. Prisoners there were subjected to severe mistreatment, including subjection to slave labor, inhumane and involuntary medical experimentation, inadequate food, shelter, and medical care, physical and emotional abuse, torture and murder. In total, approximately 38,000 prisoners died at the camp.

17. Persons were imprisoned at the Buchenwald Concentration Camp because of their race, religion, national origin and political opinion. Prisoners there were subjected to severe mistreatment, including subjection to slave labor, inhumane and involuntary medical experimentation, inadequate food, shelter, and medical care, physical and emotional abuse, torture and murder. In total, approximately 55,000 prisoners died there.

AND on the basis of the foregoing allegations, it is charged that you are subject to removal pursuant to the following provision of law:

Section 237(a)(4)(D) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), 8 U.S.C. 1227(a)(4)(D), as an alien described in Secition 212(a)(3)(E)(i), 8 U.S.C. 1182(a)(3)(E)(i), of the INA, in that as a dog trainer and handler at Dachau and Buchenwald Concentration Camps, you ordered, incited, assisted, or otherwise participated in the persecution of persons because of race, religion, national origin or political opinion between March 23, 1933, and May 8, 1945, under the direction of or in association with the Nazi government of Germany.

Your various jokes nonwithstanding Mr. Henss is accused (and even admits) far more than some esoteric or tangential connection with the horrors of Dachau and Buchenwald.

Moreover, there are clear grounds for deporting him -- which is the only thing at issue. No one except a few hotheads on this forum is talking about executing him.

Neo Art, please don't delude yourself into thinking that Homeland Security are only deporting this guy on the technicality that he lied on his immigration paper's. This man is (definitely not for certain) likely to have criminal charges levied against him at some point by Israel. Maybe not now, but sometime in the future. It's less about deporting an illegal immigrant and more about scoring diplomatic points.

If that is true and you don't think Mr. Henss should ever face criminal charges, then object when it comes time to someone filing criminal charges against him. For now you are just speculating.

Whether or not he is to be deported is the only issue before us.

Once a (treaty) country send the extradition papers.. the US gov has no choice but to send the man.
Yes or No?


Define "choice." There are certain burdens that must be met for extradition. If those burdens are not met, there is no obligation. If they are met the nation, provided a treaty, is expected to do so, yes. If they fail they violate the treaty, and their own law.

Now do they have a "choice" in the matter? yeah, they can simply refuse, but that's true for any person or nation at any time for any thing.

Because I went to the trouble of typing up all the allegations against Mr. Henss and none of you have responded but continue to joke about his lack of guilt, either you are too lazy to read the thread or are being deliberately ignorant. I'm afraid the later is the case, but I will nonetheless repeat my earlier post:

*TCT re-re-peats same posts*I have to answer, because you have quoted me here-twice-

I did read the OP before posting in this thread.
These "deportation forms" are at the OP.
I did take into consideration the content of this "forms".

I dont appreciate you calling me Lazy/Ignorant..

The departement of HomeLand security is about to deport -on a technicality- a 85 years old, former WWII prison/camp guard, that will be -probably- criminally pursued by the state of Israel. Do I have a problem with that?

Of course I do.
I do have a problem with that.

What, if anything, does Israel have to do with this situation? Since this guy is a German, rather than Israeli, citizen, he's getting deported back to Germany.

It will then be up to Germany to try him, if they want. I suppose Israel might charge him and ask Germany to extradite this guy, but that seems unlikely.

So, why even bother bringing up Israeli in this discussion?

I have to answer, because you have quoted me here-twice-

I did read the OP before posting in this thread.
These "deportation forms" are at the OP.
I did take into consideration the content of this "forms".

I dont appreciate you calling me Lazy/Ignorant..

Then, pray tell, why are you saying things like "the question 'guilty of What?' is still standing"?

Apparently you know full well of what he is accused of being guilty.

So, maybe you aren't ignorant, you are just pretending to be ignorant. Do you like that better?

Then, pray tell, why are you saying things like "the question 'guilty of What?' is still standing"?

When I say "guilty of what?"... I am saying "guilty of what crime?"

This 85 years old, was a WWII prison/camp guard. That is not a crime.

When I say "guilty of what?"... I am saying "guilty of what crime?"


Lying on his application for entry into the United States.

Lying on his application for entry into the United States.But like you said: That is a technicality.


NOT a crime.

and at this point I am going to quote UN Protectorates:

Neo Art, please don't delude yourself into thinking that Homeland Security are only deporting this guy on the technicality that he lied on his immigration paper's. This man is (definitely not for certain) likely to have criminal charges levied against him at some point by Israel. Maybe not now, but sometime in the future. It's less about deporting an illegal immigrant and more about (getting some revenge on a 85 years old WWII German prison/Camp Guard.)
--by UN Protectorates--edited by ##--

But like you said: That is a technicality.


NOT a crime.

No, it is most certainly a crime. If the allegations are true he knowingly and willfully lied on his immigration forms. That is most certainly a crime.

When I say "guilty of what?"... I am saying "guilty of what crime?"

This 85 years old, was a WWII prison/camp guard. That is not a crime.

He isn't actually accused of committing a crime. He is charged with being here illegally. Thus, he is being deported and not tried for a crime.

Technically, he is guilty of the crime of lying on his application for entry to the U.S. That may not be a serious crime, but it is a crime nonetheless.

What about this don't you understand?

I don't get this bullshit of "only on a technicality!" If I shoot you in the face is this murder "only on a technicality?" Law is simple, either it is, or it is not. Either he lied, or he did not. If he lied, that's a crime.

No bullshit about "only on a technicality" needed

He isn't actually accused of committing a crime. He is charged with being here illegally. Thus, he is being deported and not tried for a crime.

Technically, he is guilty of the crime of lying on his application for entry to the U.S. That may not be a serious crime, but it is a crime nonetheless.

What about this don't you understand?I understand.. I do.

and at this point I am going to quote UN Protectorates:

Neo Art, please don't delude yourself into thinking that Homeland Security are only deporting this guy on the technicality that he lied on his immigration paper's. This man is (definitely not for certain) likely to have criminal charges levied against him at some point by Israel. Maybe not now, but sometime in the future. It's less about deporting an illegal immigrant and more about (getting some revenge on a 85 years old former German prison/Camp Guard.)
--by UN Protectorates--edited by ##--

Why do people on this thread keep bringing up Israel? The article in the OP doesn't talk about Israel at all. This guy was caught by US Justice Department officials:

Members of the Justice Department's elite Nazi tracking force said Paul Henss, 85, served as a prison guard and attack dog handler at the notorious Dachau and Buchenwald Concentration Camps in Nazi Germany.

This is a case where US officials are deporting a German citizen back to Germany because of his violation of American immigration law.

What the heck does this have to do with Israel?

I don't get this bullshit of "only on a technicality!" ...I give up.

Why do people on this thread keep bringing up Israel? The article in the OP doesn't talk about Israel at all. You either get it.. or you dont.

I am not going to repeat my viewpoints 100 times.
read the thread its all there.

You either get it.. or you dont.

I am not going to repeat my viewpoints 100 times.
read the thread its all there.

I've read the thread. There is no evidence that Israel has anything to do with this case. This guy was caught by US Justice Department officials for a violation of US immigration law, and he's getting deported back to his home country of Germany.

If you know of evidence that Israel has anything to do with this, please provide it.

Until then, your viewpoint falls into the category of "baseless speculation."

I've read the thread. There is no evidence that Israel has anything to do with this case. This guy was caught by US Justice Department officials for a violation of US immigration law, and he's getting deported back to his home country of Germany.
like I said:

You either get it.. or you dont.
.
...your viewpoint falls into the category of "baseless speculation."Whateva

like I said:

You either get it.. or you dont.

If you have a point to make, then make it.

If you have a point to make, then make it.I have already spelled out my viewpoints.
I am not your babysitter.

And hopefully this concludes another round of spin the Nazi, where none leave any wiser, merely more pissed off at another and where obvious links with Hezbollah, Isreäl and a lovely statement that all germans should fry for something some of their grandparents have done.

I myself had the enjoyment of being taken out of context 3 times where two times people were just too indignified by my statements that they didnt bother to read to rest. Oddly enough emotions and reasons doesnt mix well it seems.

It's obvious that the holocaust isn't the Nazi's only crime apperently, I blame them mostly for fueling such lovely discussions such as these and the fact that it seems 99.99% certain that people call you a nazi or a facist after the thread reaches its 10th page.

PS: Also I don't understands whats -not- to understand with Neo Arts statements during his last few posts. He clearly states that the man commited a crime by lying to become a citizen which can be punishable by deportation. I clearly see no moral stance upon the subject matter that leaves it debatable what so ever.
If you think the man will end up in Isreal where he won't get a fair trial (why wouldn't he? Oh because their Jews? And naturally jews aren't able to play fair? These are just assumptions.) then you aren't discussing the same thing as Neo Art.
Feel free to discuss -if- the man should be deported under the circumstances but its silly to discuss wether or not its possible. It's US law. Period.

PS: Also I don't understands whats -not- to understand with Neo Arts statements during his last few posts. He clearly states that the man commited a crime by lying to become a citizen which can be punishable by deportation. I clearly see no moral stance upon the subject matter that leaves it debatable what so ever. Feel free to discuss -if- the man should be deported under the circumstances but its silly to discuss wether or not its possible. It's US law. Period.

Minor correction. From my understanding this man did not apply to be a citizen and is not a citizen. however he did fill out a form for a visa to gain residency in the country. Which puts his position in a lot more tenuous situation. As a non citizen resident he has far fewer rights, which includes the risk that his visa, the document that grants him permission to remain in this country, will be revoked if it is found he committed a crime.

That's pretty standard in every country. He is not a citizen. he remains in this country with the permission of the government. Permission that can be revoked for any number of reasons, including if you lied on your application for entry.

And he did.

And hopefully this concludes another round of spin the Nazi...Hezbollah.. Isreäl ..all germans should fry ..ok.. so the Thread is over.
.

PS: Also I don't understands whats -not- to understand with...
Feel free to discuss -if- the man should be deported under the circumstances but its silly to discuss wether or not its possible... ...

or maybe not.

I have already spelled out my viewpoints.
I am not your babysitter.

Okay, I'll take that as an admittal on your part that you don't actually have any evidence to support your claim that Israel was somehow behind the deportation of this poor Nazi dog-trainer.

ok.. so the Thread is over.
.
...

or maybe not.


Ah bah, see....now Im infected aswell...darn Nazi's...

Being more serious though the point I tried to make is that you two really didnt seem to dicuss the same thing which made the conversation...well non-existant at best. So it was an attempt to end it aswell. There I redeemed myself.

PS: I stand corrected Neo Art. No excuse for getting the facts wrong.

.. your claim that (Israel did it).I never said Israel did it. If you still think I did.. you should use the Quote Function to show us.

I never said Israel did it. If you still think I did.. you should use the Quote Function to show us.

You agreed with Un Protectorates' statement:

and at this point I am going to quote UN Protectorates:

Neo Art, please don't delude yourself into thinking that Homeland Security are only deporting this guy on the technicality that he lied on his immigration paper's. This man is (definitely not for certain) likely to have criminal charges levied against him at some point by Israel. Maybe not now, but sometime in the future. It's less about deporting an illegal immigrant and more about (getting some revenge on a 85 years old former German prison/Camp Guard.)

What's the point of talking about Israel, unless you think the Israelis have something to do with his deportation?

just as there were good British and bad British at the time.

There never were any good brits.

And naturally jews aren't able to play fair? These are just assumptions.

Only the fundamentalists orthodox Jews. But to be fair, fundamentalists of any stripe don't play fair.

I say deport. But only because he "technically" broke US immigration law. But don't send him back to Germany, maybe Argentina, aren't there supposed to be tons of the Old Nazis living down there?

Members of the Justice Department's elite Nazi tracking force
I want to know why there is an "elite Nazi tracking force" 60 years after the fact. The fact they found an 80 year old man in Atlanta shows they are going after expatriates, not neo-Nazis. I demand their funding be cut and they all be given real jobs.

I want to know why there is an "elite Nazi tracking force" 60 years after the fact. The fact they found an 80 year old man in Atlanta shows they are going after expatriates, not neo-Nazis. I demand their funding be cut and they all be given real jobs.

Reminds me of an episode of Magnum Pi.
There was this old nazi couple who hid as 'Jews' in ...wherever, and there was this involved plot twist thing...yea. Magnum Pi ftw.

I want to know why there is an "elite Nazi tracking force" 60 years after the fact. The fact they found an 80 year old man in Atlanta shows they are going after expatriates, not neo-Nazis. I demand their funding be cut and they all be given real jobs.
I've never know a government agency to just go away when it wasn't needed anymore. Maybe when all the real Nazis die off, they'll start going after the offspring.

In Georgia?
Interesting place for a Nazi to end up, heh.

It doesn't matter if he was Hitler's personal assassin, 50 years is way too long a period of time for anyone to bear a grudge against him. Especially if he's spent the intervening years quietly.
Nazi Hunters are the worst kind of scum.

So maybe you have never seen the number tattooed on the arm of an elderly person.

60 years is a long time for a tattoo to last - it doesn't take it away.

Which is different from attack dogs used in prisons around the world how?

an attack dog is not the same as a guard dog. Attack dogs are trained to kill.

an attack dog is not the same as a guard dog. Attack dogs are trained to kill.

Guard dogs are meant to keep people out. Attack dogs are trained to catch and restrain/kill.

Prisons use the latter because the emphasis is on catching escapees. They're bred for aggression, tracking and the hunt.

While we're at it, let's go get the Pope, everyone else who was in Hitler Youth (the vast majority of children in Germany at the time), and everyone who worked with the Nazis in any way, like janitors, cooks, and hospital workers! Yeah! That'll show those THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WHO WEREN'T THE ONES PLANNING AND ORGANIZING THE HOLOCAUST.

Now hospital workers - well actually before the Nazis started rounding up Jews and Homosexuals they rounded up people with disabilities, sent them to hospitals and killed them. Some in the name of science and others by starvation.

If you had a disability but could be 'useful' by working (many deaf people in this category)you were lucky, you were sterilised instead.

I've never know a government agency to just go away when it wasn't needed anymore. Maybe when all the real Nazis die off, they'll start going after the offspring.

What happened to the House of Unamerican Activites committee though?

I want to know why there is an "elite Nazi tracking force" 60 years after the fact. The fact they found an 80 year old man in Atlanta shows they are going after expatriates, not neo-Nazis. I demand their funding be cut and they all be given real jobs.

No duh.

From the DOJ OSI website (http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/links/osi.html):
The Office of Special Investigations detects and investigates individuals who took part in Nazi-sponsored acts of persecution abroad before and during World War II, and who subsequently entered, or seek to enter, the United States illegally and/or fraudulently. It then takes appropriate legal action seeking their exclusion, denaturalization and/or deportation. OSI also handles emerging war crimes issues.

Also, from the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum (http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005167):

The United States, as well, through the Office of Special Investigations (OSI) in the U.S. Department of Justice, has tracked down suspected Nazi offenders. According to American law, U.S. courts do not have jurisdiction to try individuals for crimes committed outside the United States unless the crimes were committed against American citizens. Therefore, OSI litigates against Nazi war criminals for violating U.S. immigration and naturalization laws. In the 21 years since it was created, OSI has investigated hundreds of cases and sought the denaturalization and/or removal from the United States of more than 117 Nazi war criminals. The vast majority have involved Lithuanian, Latvian, Ukrainian, and ethnic German collaborators who emigrated to the United States shortly after the war from displaced persons camps in Germany and Austria. The OSI is still active today.


The whole point is to find Nazis (real WWII Nazis) that are living in the U.S. illegally. They've been doing it since 1979. Unfortunately, it can take a long time to track down the evidence that an individual is here illegally because they are a Nazi.

Being a Nazi or a Neo-Nazi is not a crime. There shouldn't be a government agency seeking to identify and prosecute people for simply believing in a repellent ideology. It is not legal, however, for a former WWII Nazi to move to the United States. (Technically, the law says that any alien that, during the period beginning on March 23, 1933, and ending on May 8, 1945, under the direction of, or in association with (I) the Nazi government of Germany, (II) any government in any area occupied by the military forces of the Nazi government of Germany, (III) any government established with the assistance or cooperation of the Nazi government of Germany, or (IV) any government which was an ally of the Nazi government of Germany, ordered, incited, assisted, or otherwise participated in the persecution of any person because of race, religion, national origin, or political opinion is inadmissible.) Those that have done so illegally should be deported -- not because of their beliefs, but because of their former actions.

What happened to the House of Unamerican Activites committee though?
1. It wasn't a government agency.
2. It lasted a good 25 years after the McCarthy stuff -- finally shut down in '75.

In Georgia?
Interesting place for a Nazi to end up, heh.
We even have yankees here. It's not like we can interview and accept or reject prospective residents.

The guy is 85 and probably did nothing personally in the campexcept trained dogs. Let him live out the rest of his days and leave him alone.

The guy is 85 and probably did nothing personally in the campexcept trained dogs. Let him live out the rest of his days and leave him alone.
Really what you're saying is that the rule of law is not important. Right? What we need to do is follow through, give the man due process at the bar, and then carry out the decision that's rendered.

That's the legal process that this country follows and it works pretty well. It works much better than just deciding that, because of overwhelming popular opinion, we should treat an alleged offender one way or another.