NationStates Jolt Archive

I can assure you that I'm not changing wiki.

But, I expected that some people from here are doing it now.

Oh well, it doesn't harm. If their corrections are not valid then they will be removed soon.

I’ll take your word on it. But I do not like what I see…. I hope some people are willing to correct these statements… There are so many changes… and not all of them are bad. Therefore, it would be a lot of work to change these without discarding improvements. It has more to do with emphasis, than falsehoods…

I for one would not like to try and change this article all by my self… This character obviously has more spare time than I have ;)

I’ll take your word on it. But I do not like what I see…. I hope some people are willing to correct these statements… There are so many changes… and not all of them are bad. Therefore, it would be a lot of work to change these without discarding improvements. It has more to do with emphasis, than falsehoods…

I for one would not like to try and change this article all by my self… This character obviously has more spare time than I have ;)

The easiness of editing Wikipedia articles on the fly is why no serious argument or discussion cites an article on it as a source. The flak that occurred with Stephen Colbert encouraging viewers to distort the Elephant article or the one that erupted in the wake of the Benoit murder/suicide are just two of the more prominent examples.

why bother, if the moslima women like it this way; than so be it; I dont hear them protesting. most moslima girls enslave themselfs to men because they think it's the will of their God. They think they don't deserve rights, but if you're protesting against it like this; why you don't go to the North-Afrikan countrys and protest there.


Actually those women are hitting the streets, more and more.

We had Muslim-women demonstrations in Paris pro-wearing-the-veil.
But years before, we had Muslim-women demonstrations in that same Paris anti-wearing-the veil.

In Iran girls are protesting by unveiling themselves...

The Turkish girls in the tourist cities of Turkey or more Western than the Turkish girls in Europe...

Countless Muslim women are writing books, filling internet pages and so on, to fight for their rights.


I can't protest about this issue in North Africa or any other Muslim country.

They would beat me, put me in jail maybe and if I'm really unlucky they would kill me.

According to the Koran:

“Men have authority over women, for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient … and those you fear may be rebellious, admonish them to their couches, and beat them”. (The Koran, Women, verse 38)

In Islam, women are considered dangerous both sexually and in other ways. Therefore women should not to be allowed to have any authority in society other than in their roles as wives and mothers; they become mere extensions of men. Islam’s prophet says: “There is no salvation for a man or a nation who allows women to rule over them”. So women’s freedom must be restricted. Control is made possible by the idea of hijab: the veil, which exists in Christianity and Judaism as well as Islam. The veil, or curtain, delimits the physical boundary of women’s existence in society in order to protect men and the community from the possible moral or social danger or destruction they may cause. The reasoning is as follows: “if the physical appearance of a woman can awaken feelings in a man, even though she is not aware of it, this will probably lead him to want her, which may lead to adultery”

Source:
http://www.middleastwomen.org/html/oppression.htm

On http://www.middleastwomen.org/ you can see some present time topics, like:

* Iran: “bad hijab women” on rise

In the past few months hundreds of Iranian women have been bundled off the streets and arrested. Officially, they were breaking the 'correct' Islamic dress code. But the real aim is to keep women second-class citizens...

* Nigeria: Introduction of women-only taxis introduced

New lemon-yellow motorised rickshaws for women, bearing the slogan 'Be Pious', are vying for pole position in Nigeria's Muslim-dominated north...

* Kuwait: Barring women from working night jobs

The Kuwaiti parliament on Monday passed a law banning women from working at night, except those in the medical profession, and barring them from jobs considered ‘immoral.’ (AFP)

The law, which was passed unanimously, prohibits women from working between 8:00 pm and 7:00 am and in jobs that ‘contravene with public morals and in all-men service places at any time.’ ..

* Palestine: 'Wear a veil or we will behead you'

The 'Righteous Swords of Islam' warned that it would strike the women with "an iron fist and swords" for refusing to wear a veil on camera.

* France: Muslim women desperate to "restore virginity"

Gynaecologists in France are divided over a new phenomenon: demands by Muslim women to "restore" their virginity.

Some Muslim women are demanding operations to reconstitute their hymens before marriage and medical certificates stating that they are virgins. They are desperate to avoid rejection from men who won't take supposedly "unchaste" women as wives.


It are just a few issues, happening NOW and around the globe...

It is not that there are no cases of maltreatment of women, it is however more nuanced than you like to portray... Incidents do not an opressive religion make.:p

We find all sorts of cosmetic surgery in the west, why? You tel me. Do these types of surgery tell us something about culture? sure they do. Can we take them as a sign of widespread oppression? I don't think so.

I’ll take your word on it. But I do not like what I see…. I hope some people are willing to correct these statements… There are so many changes… and not all of them are bad. Therefore, it would be a lot of work to change these without discarding improvements. It has more to do with emphasis, than falsehoods…

I for one would not like to try and change this article all by my self… This character obviously has more spare time than I have ;)


It's sad that it is happening, I checked it by myself and since my thread start the changes in wiki are enormous...

The easiness of editing Wikipedia articles on the fly is why no serious argument or discussion cites an article on it as a source. The flak that occurred with Stephen Colbert encouraging viewers to distort the Elephant article or the one that erupted in the wake of the Benoit murder/suicide are just two of the more prominent examples.


Yes, that's a flaw and an advantage in one package because incorrect information can be corrected fast as well.

It is not that there are no cases of maltreatment of women, it is however more nuanced than you like to portray... Incidents do not an opressive religion make.:p

We find all sorts of cosmetic surgery in the west, why? You tel me. Do these types of surgery tell us something about culture? sure they do. Can we take them as a sign of widespread oppression? I don't think so.

It's not an 'incident' that women are second class in the Muslim world.

Actually those women are hitting the streets, more and more.

We had Muslim-women demonstrations in Paris pro-wearing-the-veil.
But years before, we had Muslim-women demonstrations in that same Paris anti-wearing-the veil.

In Iran girls are protesting by unveiling themselves...

The Turkish girls in the tourist cities of Turkey or more Western than the Turkish girls in Europe...

Countless Muslim women are writing books, filling internet pages and so on, to fight for their right.


I can't protest about this issue in North Africa or any other Muslim country.

They would beat me, put me in jail maybe and if I'm really unlucky they would kill me.

We should support the right to choose for individuals. We should not restrict the choice of women by forbidding their religion, as you stated before. Nor do we help those that do encounter difficulties by shouting from an ivory tower. For by simply bashing Islam, you will only hamper those you say you wish to aid.

Do you care enough to be more nuanced?

We should support the right to choose for individuals. We should not restrict the choice of women by forbidding their religion, as you stated before. Nor do we help those that do encounter difficulties by shouting from an ivory tower. For by simply bashing Islam, you will only hamper those you say you wish to aid.

Do you care enough to be more nuanced?

If you whisper, few will hear you.

It's not an 'incident' that women are second class in the Muslim world.

Sadly, women are and have been second class everywhere...

Luckily, this is also changing everywhere. This includes the Middle East, where women are taking an active role in change. Also are they taking an active role in Islamist organizations... With education the women in the west have become increasingly independent and free. With education of women rapidly increasing in the rest of the world we see women taking a more active role, and despite difficulties we see them gaining more rights.

If you whisper, few will hear you.

Who do you want to reach, with your message? White males?!

Who do you want to reach, with your message? White males?!

No, I did not create a marketing plan before I released my posting.

It's just bothering me. See it as releasing some steam... :)

Edwinasia, did you become a bigot before or after your gender reassignment operation?

Edwinasia, did you become a bigot before or after your gender reassignment operation?

I became one, after I recognized how Islam is treating women.

Edwinasia, did you become a bigot before or after your gender reassignment operation?

What's more extremist...

* Treating women bad

or...

* Complain that women are treated badly?

It depends. If you're a Muslim male, it would be the last option.

Aside from dismissing the context of human lifespan back in those days and with no solid evidence that can undeniably prove that Muhammed literally married a six year old girl, you're obviously trying to insinuate that all Muslims are pedophiles.

I don't care if Muhammed really did marry a 6 year old or not, whether he had sex with her or not, whether she was "fully grown" at that age itself (as some muslims claim) or not. I am not going to waste my time proving or disproving that.

To me, what REALLY matters is that MANY muslims do believe that Ayesha's age was 6 when married and 9 when it was consummated. Evidences range from Bukhari's hadiths and narrations by Ayesha herself, which may or may not be true. Then again, what really matters is what muslims believe and many, particularly practicing sunnis, believe that.

This has led, in part (with some local cultural hangovers) to the acceptance of marrying off children, because of the sunna set by Muhammed.

Google "Vani marriages" and you will see.

Oh and b4 somebody goes (that's you OD), what about Hindus..

Yeah, child marriage was very common in the last century. Gandhi was married at 13.

But now, the legal age has been set to 18 (for consent in marriage) and marriages where age of any party is less than 18 is illegal. It is increasingly rare to hear of child marriages, at least per my personal observations (not to say there may not be such odd cases, maybe in the lawless lands of Bihar or easter Uttar Pradesh etc).

Oh and b4 somebody goes (that's you OD), what about Hindus..

Yeah, child marriage was very common in the last century. Gandhi was married at 13.

But now, the legal age has been set to 18 (for consent in marriage) and marriages where age of any party is less than 18 is illegal. It is increasingly rare to hear of child marriages, at least per my personal observations (not to say there may not be such odd cases, maybe in the lawless lands of Bihar or easter Uttar Pradesh etc).

In Yemen it is not that rare. Recently a girl of 11 is married with some...pervert.

I have to recall from my head, but I believe that I have reading once that about 25% of the girls aging 16 or less are already married.

Google on marry+child+yemen

And oh, for all those bashing people: No, this is not the case for the entire Islam world.

Snip.

Nice strawman.

Also...

Kindly explain to us how come you have TWO GENDERS!!!

All the points I made are real, they did not happen a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.
Yet all you are able to present here is a link to a often-edited Wiki-article? Convincing indeed...

They are happening NOW and in lots of Muslim countries. Lots of the woman unfriendly stuff is happening in your local Muslimhood INSIDE Europe or USA.
So you say, yet you don't back it up. A link to the woman unfriendly stuff happening in the local "muslimhood" in the US for example? I expect it to be easy to find?

When I used the word ‘some’ then it does mean it is not valid for all countries or cultures.

I used sometimes the word ‘many’. I used this to make clear that the majority of Muslim countries/cultures are practising some rule, behaviour or whatever.
Ah, so let's recap:

Claim: For Muslims, women are second class people.
Evidence: Some muslims do this and that, and this and that happens in some countries and cultures.
Evidence: In many Muslim countries/cultures this and that happen.

And thus you arrive at the conclusion:
Islam as one of the most female unfriendly religions around.

And that might be true, but the way you go about trying to prove it does not hold water. You go from some/many to all, and you don't differentiate between cultures, national laws custums, and the religion of Islam itself. Sure they are connected, but you don't take that into consideration. You say "In Africa, Christianity is a different animal as in Europe. The African culture influenced their version of Christianity", but you don't talk about the african, asian, or middle eastern influence on the local versions of Islam, nor about tribal, local or national influences - you treat them all as a singular homogenic entity and conclude based on things that may not be common in Islamic countries. (Like the example of woman not being able to drive - which is only going on in a minority of the countries.)

As such, your analysis fails completely.

Some people their explanation for the woman unfriendly stuff is:

‘Oh yes, but that’s not Islam, that’s culture’

Well, you can find lines in the Qur’an about most issues. They aren’t woman-friendly either and are saying more or less the same things.
Yet you present no such lines.

The techniques that some of you used are not that surprising and, this all, to deny that women are not treated equal:

• Bashing the messenger
• Ask for ‘proof’ in my statements, but not providing proof by themselves.
See, here you go again. The thing is, when you're making the claims, the burden of proof is on you. That means that you're the one who is required to back up your claims.

That's how it is. Back up your claims, or accept that we'll call bullshit.

And I don't deny there is problems, I'm just attacking your flawed analysis.

• Just lying. Like saying that Muslims never attend bars. Oh and they do, they really do.
First of all, how did you know that the men in the bar in your anecdote were muslim?
Secondly, are muslims who go to bars and drink alcohol in violation of the tenets of Islam a good example of all or most muslims?

Islam isn’t nice for women. Like it or not.
So you keep saying.
For some issues, there’s no compromise possible:

• Woman should have the same rights.
• Homosexuality is accepted in our culture.
• Etc…
Really? Is homosexuality without a doubt accepted in "our" (whatever that is, you haven't bothere defining even that) culture? Are you sure?
Poland (http://www.ukgaynews.org.uk/Archive/07/Sept/2701.htm) has failed to meet its human rights obligations for gay men and women
A fight involving as many as 30 people (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-5190.html) broke out at a photographic exhibition in the Swedish city of Jonkoping.

The controversy surrounds the Ecco Homo exhibit, which portrays Jesus Christ as a gay man.
Russian skinheads, ultra nationalists and fundamentalist Orthodox church members (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,485262,00.html) make good on their pledge to "clean" Moscow streets of gays
Police and a civilian review board in Rochester. N.Y., on Thursday upheld formal allegations of misconduct by eight people who say they were gay-bashed in June both by an unruly group and the police officers who responded (http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?date=2007/09/14/6)
See? Some people act violently against homosexuals, and many countries treat them as second-class citizens... Would it be safe to say that western culture is unfriendly to homosexuals?

I’m not political correct. It is better that I should follow the other sheep and deny the problem. In Europe we did it for decades and now we are facing enormous troubles.
I wish you would talk about the problems and troubles instead of this rant though.

The burning cars in Paris were just a teaser, there’s more to come.
*sigh* :rolleyes:

Of course, the burning cars in Paris had nothing to do with the french social policies nor the french labour- or integration policies. It was all about Islam, wasn't it...
I didn't say that Muslims are evil. I said that Islam is woman unfriendly and that Muslim women are oppressed.
And you have yet to back that up properly. Come on, it's not that hard!


Yes. Look at the points in my initial post. They are documented and not only by Wiki. Even Muslim people wrote stuff about it.
Yet you present only the Wikipedia article. Funny that.


Btw in Yemen, they still do such things.
So you say - but can you back up your previous claim that:
In Jemen an 'old' (>16) girl that is not married is a 'whore' and cause that she'll never marry.
You have a lot of work to do here...


Yes, I consider marrying children as paedophilia.
Why? Sex with children is one thing, but only marriage would be enough for you?

No, I didn't say that all Muslims are paedophiles. But I know for sure that some Muslims are paedophiles.
Some agnostics are too. Not relevant.


Yes, that's another trick. Suggesting that Islam version XYZ is not the same Islam version ABC.
Is it?

Again, I used rather a lot words as 'some' and 'many', smart people know their purpose.
Don't blame the readers for your lack of accuracy and the context of your posts.

Women are 2nd class in the world of Islam.
What, exactly, is "the world of Islam"?

What's more extremist...

* Treating women bad

or...

* Complain that women are treated badly?

It depends. If you're a Muslim male, it would be the last option.
*Sigh*

Generalizing without proof again.
In Yemen it is not that rare. Recently a girl of 11 is married with some...pervert.
Yet you're unable to provide a link.

I have to recall from my head, but I believe that I have reading once that about 25% of the girls aging 16 or less are already married.
And according to your post above the rest are regarded as 'whores' who'll never marry.

Google on marry+child+yemen
Provide links.

And oh, for all those bashing people: No, this is not the case for the entire Islam world.
Yet you use this as a reason to outlaw Islam? Interesting...

Oh and b4 somebody goes (that's you OD), what about Hindus..

Yeah, child marriage was very common in the last century. Gandhi was married at 13.

But now, the legal age has been set to 18 (for consent in marriage) and marriages where age of any party is less than 18 is illegal. It is increasingly rare to hear of child marriages, at least per my personal observations (not to say there may not be such odd cases, maybe in the lawless lands of Bihar or easter Uttar Pradesh etc).

In the middle east it is increasingly rare as well...

Edwinasia, you miss one crucial thing. You completely destroyed your own credibility in an argument that revolves around gender, by claiming yourself to be both genders at some point in this argument.

Completely destroyed.

Case in point. With bolded items specifying your gender association.

She stayed calm and said “Oh well, I’m wearing a veil, so I am supposed to be religious and that’s including that I shouldn’t talk with you a male non-Muslim and also...I’m smoking cigarettes…”

We, Western, males are pussies. :)

I like to be a sex object. What's more. I'm a sex object and being proud I am one.

I hate female unfriendly practices.
I will fight for women.
Damn, I'm a woman!

Because I'm not forced to be a sex object.

My father and brothers will not kick my ass because I'm not a sex object.

My husband would never divorce from me, cause I'm a sex object.

Much like any real debate, once you begin to tell lies to back your points, everything you say becomes called into question. This, by default, puts the burden of proof upon you. Meaning your arguments here are baseless unless you can actually provide proof for every claim you make. And proof that is not wikipedia.

Much like any real debate, once you begin to tell lies to back your points, everything you say becomes called into question. This, by default, puts the burden of proof upon you. Meaning your arguments here are baseless unless you can actually provide proof for every claim you make. And proof that is not wikipedia.
The burden of proof was on him since he wrote the OP.

I didn't lie. I showed sources and not only wiki.

While not one of you gave me a trustable source (not even a dubious one :p) to proof that Muslim women are really free.

The only thing that most of you were doing is just flaming me. And we both know why. Cause you lack good arguments.

I didn’t lie about my gender. I already said in another and older posting that I was male.
I was making a joke, just like Alex Keaton did in some episode of Family Ties.

He said being locked in jail together with some women: “I’m a woman”

It’s comparable to what Kennedy said “Ich bin ein Berliner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_bin_ein_Berliner)”.

And if some of you use my joke as a proof that women are not oppressed in the world of Islam than I may safely assume that some of you have a serious brain damage.

Tons of books, magazines, movies and documentaries are created about this subject, still some, generally MALE MUSLIMS (ah!), still deny the unquestionable fact that Muslim women are oppressed. Many Muslim males play Mea Culpa. It's saying enough in which camp *you* belong.

Here are some other sources:

http://www.megaessays.com/viewpaper/13419.html
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1413730299/ref=cm_rdp_product/105-0792302-3767651
http://www.answering-islam.org/Marriage/lovehim.html
http://www.maryamnamazie.com/media/media.html

With a little help of Google, you'll find million of pages...

I didn't lie. I showed sources and not only wiki.

While not one of you gave me a trustable source (not even a dubious one :p) to proof that Muslim women are really free.

The only thing that most of you were doing is just flaming me. And we both know why. Cause you lack good arguments.

I didn’t lie about my gender. I already said in another and older posting that I was male.
I was making a joke, just like Alex Keaton did in some episode of Family Ties.

He said in jail, being locked in jail together with some women: “I’m a woman”

It’s comparable to what Kennedy said “Ich bin ein Berliner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_bin_ein_Berliner)”.

And if some of you use my joke as a proof that women are not oppressed in the world of Islam than I may safely assume that some of you have a serious brain damage.

I asked you a while back, if you actualy know any Muslims at all. You decided not to answer me, I asked because I am interested in what any of your Muslim friends would say about what you are saying.

If you require proof on whether or not Muslim women feel that they are being oppressed, why not go and ask them. The ones that I know answer in the negative, if that is any use to you.

I didn't lie. I showed sources and not only wiki.

While not one of you gave me a trustable source (not even a dubious one :p) to proof that Muslim women are really free.
The burden of proof is on you. You have to back up your claims with sources. You haven't shown us any trustworthy sources. Your analysis is flawed. Your conclusion is not supported by your arguments. In short: You fail.


The only thing that most of you were doing is just flaming me. And we both know why. Cause you lack good arguments.
Please quote the flames. Critical questions are not flames.

I asked you a while back, if you actualy know any Muslims at all. You decided not to answer me, I asked because I am interested in what any of your Muslim friends would say about what you are saying.

If you require proof on whether or not Muslim women feel that they are being oppressed, why not go and ask them. The ones that I know answer in the negative, if that is any use to you.

I think I know about 20 - 30 Muslims. Male and female.

I was hired by a call centre for doing usability tasks for the software they use. In that company a significant share of the people were veiled Muslim girls.

I had lots of conversation with them. Professional but also private talks.

I may consider some of them as friends.

Most of them know exactly what I think about this issue. And most agree. Maybe not on everything but close.

With some you don't do this debate cause politeness.

I know a Turkish young couple very well. It happens that I go drink with his (veiled) wife something. He is trusting her for 100%. And he doesn’t see any problem. He’s rather liberal.

But believe me, in 1 on 3 occasions she and I are in troubles by other Muslim men (oh yes, always, but always men, never had a problem with another Muslim woman). They bash us, shout at her, I had to fight almost a few times, just cause she – a Muslim girl – is drinking something with a white clear not-Muslim guy….

Oh btw she is wearing her veil for having peace and because she is used to it.

The burden of proof is on you. You have to back up your claims with sources. You haven't shown us any trustworthy sources. Your analysis is flawed. Your conclusion is not supported by your arguments. In short: You fail.


Please quote the flames. Critical questions are not flames.

I was called a bigot, an extremist, a racist...

Go and browse in this thread by yourself.

The burden of proof is on you. You have to back up your claims with sources. You haven't shown us any trustworthy sources. Your analysis is flawed. Your conclusion is not supported by your arguments. In short: You fail.


Please quote the flames. Critical questions are not flames.

I gave several sources and not only wiki. But it is easier to deny...

If "bigot" or "extremist" are flames, you should report it to the mods. I don't believe either is a flame though.

I gave several sources and not only wiki. But it is easier to deny...

I see that it's also easier to avoid responding to my past posts...

The few sources you've given - mostly the ones in your edit above - is random stuff about women in Islam, which is a huge theme. And they're mostly worthless. A link to the amazon sales page for a book is not a source. The book might be, but as you have failed to quote from it, you fail yet again. Nor is the listing of Maryam Namazies media apparences a source for anything. Did you even look at the links before posting them?

And not once do you link the sources to any spesific claims you've made.

You don't seem to wish to adress the posts I've made. You don't present sources to back up your claims. Your analysis doesn't stand up under scrutiny, and you refuse to comment on my comments. I stand by them all, and it would seem that we're done here.

I didn't lie. I showed sources and not only wiki.

While not one of you gave me a trustable source (not even a dubious one :p) to proof that Muslim women are really free.

Ok a source that is more nuanced.

Olivier Roy states that:

“In France and Britain most of the commentators have concluded that the 1990s ended with a trend of communitarisation if not ghettoisation among muslims living in impoverished suburbs and neighbourhoods[…] But if one considers the sociological evolution of Muslims whether in countries of origin or among migrants, the picture is different; most of the data show increasing sociological westernisation.”


“The media have tended to focus on cases that underline the plight of girls caught between two cultures. But if these cases seem to be increasing (forced marriages, the hijab, honour crimes, rape), it is because Muslim girls are increasingly escaping from their traditional position.[…] Even the wearing of a ‘modern’hijab by some working women is a sign of the entry of women into the public space. Her retraditionalisation goes along with westernisation.”

Roy, Olivier (2004) Globalized Islam: the search for a new Ummmah Columbia Univ press: New York pp. 140-141

Ok a source that is more nuanced.

Olivier Roy states that:

“In France and Britain most of the commentators have concluded that the 1990s ended with a trend of communitarisation if not ghettoisation among muslims living in impoverished suburbs and neighbourhoods[…] But if one considers the sociological evolution of Muslims whether in countries of origin or among migrants, the picture is different; most of the data show increasing sociological westernisation.”


“The media have tended to focus on cases that underline the plight of girls caught between two cultures. But if these cases seem to be increasing (forced marriages, the hijab, honour crimes, rape), it is because Muslim girls are increasingly escaping from their traditional position.[…] Even the wearing of a ‘modern’hijab by some working women is a sign of the entry of women into the public space. Her retraditionalisation goes along with westernisation.”

Roy, Olivier (2004) Globalized Islam: the search for a new Ummmah Columbia Univ press: New York pp. 140-141


And this is proofing women aren't oppressed in world of Islam? Come on...

The first is the reaction of the "liberal, reformist, secular" Muslims. They believe that Shari'a oppresses women, and that we need to completely overhaul it, or toss out sections of the Qur'an that are "uncomfortable," or institute secular forms of government that separate the sacred from the legal all together. These are the same Muslims who equate hijab with oppression, and who support the denial of free speech rights to "Islamists" (all the while, crying for their rights to free speech in countries where it is denied)

When presented with instances of women's oppression in the Islamic world, these Muslims, almost always men, respond defensively. They cart out examples of women's oppression in the Western world, or worse, they address the issue by lecturing the questioner about the virtues of the Ideal Place of Women in Ideal Islam. In other words, they treat the ideal that we are all aspire to as the reality on the ground. Pressed into taking a stand on real life issues, they retreat in anger. "That's culture, not Islam, it has nothing to do with me as a Muslim," they sniff

Yet there is a resounding silence when the issue being raised is Female Genital Mutilation (FGM), honor killings, forced marriages, the unequal application of hadd punishments on women, or the denial of education to girls and women. All of these wrongs are perpetrated on women in the name of Islam.

Source: http://www.islamfortoday.com/ummzaid06.htm

And oh, it's a pro-islam site...

And this is proofing women aren't oppressed in world of Islam? Come on...


No it is proof that social structures are changing and that the world of Islam is no different than other societies in this respect. Education is changing women's lives across the globe.

Right now, a Muslim woman in Nigeria is under a death sentence from the Shari'a court for the crime of adultery. The situation came to the attention of the authorities when the man who impregnated her decided to confess his crime to the police, rather than pay the child support that her father asked of him

Source:
http://www.allaahuakbar.net/womens/women_sharia_and_oppression.htm

Another pro-islam site.

All of these wrongs are perpetrated on women in the name of Islam. Many thing are executed in the name of Islam, but when the majority of muslims is no different with regard to these issues than the rest of the world, would that make these practices islamic?

I don't think that the rest of the world is forced, with soft- or hard hand, to wear a veil.

My wife wasn't asked to obey me, when we married.

Please, I can provide again the entire usual suspect list…

Point is, you can keep your religion and have critique on it at the same time.

But for some reason you have to denny that women are oppressed in the world of Islam.

Source: http://www.islamfortoday.com/ummzaid06.htm
Source:
http://www.allaahuakbar.net/womens/women_sharia_and_oppression.htm
Same article. An opinion piece which also states:

When the Taliban decided to deny education to any girl over a certain age, it is the conservative Muslims, the ones who profess adherence to "Qur'an and Sunnah" that should have spoken the loudest against this. The longer we stay silent, the more people, both Muslim and non Muslim, will begin to equate "Shar'ia" with the oppression of women.

We need to stop people who abuse the religion of God and His messenger, Mohammed, sallalahu aleyhi wa salaam. We need to oppose those who would brutalize women in the name of Qur'an and Sunnah. We need have jealousy for our religion, so that those who would abuse and misuse it realize that they will have no success and no headway under our vigilance.

i.e. the author, a self-described conservative muslim woman, does not equate Sharia with the opression of women. She claims that the opression originates from a hijacking and abuse of the religion.

...so does this support or weaken your claims?

Also, you know how the case with the nigerian woman from 2003 ended?