NationStates Jolt Archive

At the risk of sounding like one of Remote Observer's Islam bashing threads, though personally I think rightfully it should be a US bashing thread

Why are the US still supporting this bunch of backward mediaeval misogynists?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7000499.stm

A group of women in Saudi Arabia is for the first time to lobby the kingdom's government for the right to drive cars.
Members of the Committee of Demanders of Women's Right to Drive Cars plan to deliver a petition to King Abdullah by Sunday, Saudi Arabia's National Day.

Correspondents say the demand is likely to be rejected, as conservatives argue if women are allowed to drive, they will be able to mix freely with men.

The issue of women driving has recently become the subject of public debate.

Two years ago, a member of the Consultative Council sparked a heated debate when he pointed out there was nothing under Islamic law or the constitution that justified the ban, and that the council ought to discuss ways of lifting it.

Mohammed al-Zulfa's comments later prompted the Saudi interior minister to dismiss calls for the ban to be lifted, saying the country had other priorities.

'Social issue'

The current driving ban applies to all women in Saudi Arabia, whatever their nationality.

It was originally unofficial, but became law after an incident in 1990, when 47 women challenged the authorities by taking their families' cars out for a drive.

After strong criticism from the Saudi religious authorities, the women were jailed for one day, their passports confiscated and many lost their jobs.

A founding member of the Committee of Demanders of Women's Right to Drive Cars, Fawzia al-Oyouni, said its electronic petition would highlight what many Saudi men and women consider a "stolen right".

"We would like to remind officials that this is, as many have said, a social and not religious or political issue," she told the Associated Press. "Since it's a social issue, we have the right to lobby for it."

"This is a right that has been delayed for too long."

King Abdullah has in the past said that he thought a day would eventually come when Saudi women were allowed drive.

Don't dis SA! It's a vision, it's a dream of liberalism, 'tis like the heaven's themselves.

I've wondered why we've (that is the US) have supported many of these countries over there (or elsewhere).

A group of women in Saudi Arabia is for the first time to lobby the kingdom's government for the right to drive cars.
Good. Good for them.

I hope that they win or, failing that, that the publicity about it at least continues to chip away at the misogynist attitudes that allow such restrictions to exist.

I'm not going to touch the question of why the U.S. continues to support the Kingdom... I'm sure we all have our pet answers to that one and having all the arguments rehashed yet again will serve no purpose whatsoever.

I'm all one for womens rights, but letting them drive is a bit too much. Next thing they'll want to be served in the bar as well as the lounge. Seriously. The madness has to stop.

At the risk of sounding like one of Remote Observer's Islam bashing threads, though personally I think rightfully it should be a US bashing thread

Why are the US still supporting this bunch of backward mediaeval misogynists?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7000499.stm


They have no jurisdiction over women of other nationalities. I am a licensed driver of over thirty years and will drive anywhere I wish.

I'm all one for womens rights, but letting them drive is a bit too much. Next thing they'll want to be served in the bar as well as the lounge. Seriously. The madness has to stop.


If you truely was for our rights then you wouldn't have made this stupid comment. I drive and heav been servered in a bar I dare you to stop me from doing either.

They have no jurisdiction over women of other nationalities. I am a licensed driver of over thirty years and will drive anywhere I wish.

Ohhh that is good to know. When you visit a foreign land, you as a foreigner are not subject to that lands laws! Sweet!;)

Why are the US still supporting this bunch of backward mediaeval misogynists?

Haven't they invested A LOT in the US? And they're important for the oil too.

Well according to the article if a woman of any nationality drives in Saudi Arabia they would be breaking the law.


I'm not a citizen of their country, I don't recognize their authority.

They have no jurisdiction over women of other nationalities. I am a licensed driver of over thirty years and will drive anywhere I wish.

Well according to the article if a woman of any nationality drives in Saudi Arabia they would be breaking the law.

I'm not a citizen of their country, I don't recognize their authority.

But you would have to if you where in their country huh.

They have no jurisdiction over women of other nationalities. I am a licensed driver of over thirty years and will drive anywhere I wish.

Actually, they have no jurisdiction over women in other nations, but any women in Saudi Arabia of any nationality certainly have to abide by the laws of Saudi Arabia.

Are you from the US by any chance?

If you truely was for our rights then you wouldn't have made this stupid comment. I drive and heav been servered in a bar I dare you to stop me from doing either.

psst... sarcasm!

Here's ten bucks. Buy a sense of humor.

Sense of humor? Tell me what you would say if they were saying this about you?

If you truely was for our rights then you wouldn't have made this stupid comment.

Here's ten bucks. Buy a sense of humor.

Here's ten bucks. Buy a sense of humor.

Oh and here's your 10 bucks back you need it more then I.

Ohhh that is good to know. When you visit a foreign land, you as a foreigner are not subject to that lands laws! Sweet!;)

Let's see, Germany has no speed general speed limits on Autobahns. Does that then mean that all Germans are allowed to drive 200 km/h on US highways? ;)

Sense of humor? Tell me what you would say if they were saying this about you?

wow, a lot of timewarps today. Well, to avoid getting left out, psst... sarcasm!

Here's ten bucks. Buy a sense of humor.

Maybe she'd better invest it in an irony detector. 10 bucks might buy you a used one.

Here's ten bucks. Buy a sense of humor.
Don't buy from eBay. I got mine for $3.51 and apparently it's defective.

I drive and heav been servered in a bar I dare you to stop me from doing either.

'Servered' eh? Personally I think that having survived, you should really have worked out to not go back yourself.....

Let's see, Germany has no speed general speed limits on Autobahns. Does that then mean that all Germans are allowed to drive 200 km/h on US highways? ;)

Well according to Kormanthor, yes!:eek:

If you truely was for our rights then you wouldn't have made this stupid comment. I drive and heav been servered in a bar I dare you to stop me from doing either.

Also, I suggest not going to Saudi Arabia for you. You might not like the shock of suddenly having to respect foreign laws as a visitor.

At the risk of sounding like one of Remote Observer's Islam bashing threads, though personally I think rightfully it should be a US bashing thread

Why are the US still supporting this bunch of backward mediaeval misogynists?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7000499.stm

If women are allowed to drive, more of them will buy cars, thereby hurting the environment.

Let's see, Germany has no speed general speed limits on Autobahns. Does that then mean that all Germans are allowed to drive 200 km/h on US highways? ;)

Lets see, I've been forced to ride with an idoit man passing traffic while sliding sideways on a gravel berm at 140 miles an hour and he got away with it. And even though driving at those speeds are dangerous and very stupid at least if they came here they would be allowed to drive.

Also, I suggest not going to Saudi Arabia for you. You might not like the shock of suddenly having to respect foreign laws as a visitor.


Don't worry I have no intention of doing anything in any of those countries. As I said they will lose alot of tourism of married couples because of their sexist laws.

Don't worry I have no intention of doing anything in any of those countries. As I said they will lose alot of tourism of married couples because of their sexist laws.

But doubtless their traffic will be freer flowing, much as the laughter in their bars.

If women are allowed to drive, more of them will buy cars, thereby hurting the environment.


Ok lets take everyones right to drive away because we are all hurting the environment regardless of the drivers sex.

But doubtless their traffic will be freer flowing, much as the laughter in their bars.

Yeah and their economy will be free of tourist cash as well :p

Lets see, I've been forced to ride with an idoit man passing traffic while sliding sideways on a gravel berm at 140 miles an hour and he got away with it. And even though driving at those speeds are dangerous and very stupid at least if they came here they would be allowed to drive.

So because of his nationality, he was legally allowed to do that? Interesting.

And last time I checked American speed limits applied to everybody driving on American roads. Just like Saudi laws apply everywhere in Saudi Arabia.

I'm not a citizen of their country, I don't recognize their authority.

I'm afraid you have zero choice in the matter.

As to the thread. Good for them. I wish them luck in their quest to drive.

Don't worry I have no intention of doing anything in any of those countries. As I said they will lose alot of tourism of married couples because of their sexist laws.

I can't imagine Saudi Arabia has a problem attracting tourists, no matter how sexist their laws are. Mecca's in Saudi Arabia, and the prophet kindly took care that there would never be a shortage of tourists in the country.

So because of his nationality, he was legally allowed to do that? Interesting.

And last time I checked American speed limits applied to everybody driving on American roads. Just like Saudi laws apply everywhere in Saudi Arabia.

I didn't say he was allowed, I said he got away with it. I also said that foriegners can come over here and try to run 200 if they wish because the US doesn't refuse to allow them to drive here like Saudi Arabia.

At the risk of sounding like one of Remote Observer's Islam bashing threads, though personally I think rightfully it should be a US bashing thread

Why are the US still supporting this bunch of backward mediaeval misogynists?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7000499.stm

so because a country isnt as "enlightened" as we are we shouldnt have anything to do with them?

so because a country isnt as "enlightened" as we are we shouldnt have anything to do with them?


It's called boycotting something you don't agree with .... maybe you have heard of it.

I didn't say he was allowed, I said he got away with it. I also said that foriegners can come over here and try to run 200 if they wish because the US doesn't refuse to allow them to drive here like Saudi Arabia.

Doesn't make it legal and it's probably not because they're foreigners that they're getting away with it.

In fact, most of the stories I've heard either ended with befuddlement by people native to the country driving too fast (as in, no explanation for why they weren't fined) or ended with an explanation (we didn't have our speed camera on, so we can't prove anything, but we know! and we will be watching to get evidence).

I can't imagine Saudi Arabia has a problem attracting tourists, no matter how sexist their laws are. Mecca's in Saudi Arabia, and the prophet kindly took care that there would never be a shortage of tourists in the country.


They are short at least the number of women who feel as I do.

I didn't say he was allowed, I said he got away with it. I also said that foriegners can come over here and try to run 200 if they wish because the US doesn't refuse to allow them to drive here like Saudi Arabia.

You do realise you're making no sense at all, do you?
The US won't allow them to drive at 200 km/h, any more than Saudi Arabia will allow you to drive a car. You might get away with it, but that doesn't mean that you're legally allowed to do it in either case.

It's called boycotting something you don't agree with .... maybe you have heard of it.

Yea I have but that does not give you carte blanch to flaunt other nation's internal laws.

They are short at least the number of women who feel as I do.

With every single Muslim on the planet religiously obliged to visit the country at least once in their lifetime, I think they can easily cope with the loss of your custom...

Okay.

Now tell me, how many people regardless of what country they live in worldwide would willingly give up their right to drive?

I didn't say he was allowed, I said he got away with it. I also said that foriegners can come over here and try to run 200 if they wish because the US doesn't refuse to allow them to drive here like Saudi Arabia.

That's true we don't but if they do 200, its a good way to lose your driving priveleges.

Ok lets take everyones right to drive away because we are all hurting the environment regardless of the drivers sex.

Okay.

Let them lobby, I hope they win.

I don't agree with the Saudi Arabian laws, but can only really offer morale support.

Now tell me, how many people regardless of what country they live in worldwide would willingly give up their right to drive?

Right? There is no inherent right to drive anywhere. It is a privilege, given after you've proven that you are capable of driving and removed if you prove yourself incapable.

so because a country isnt as "enlightened" as we are we shouldnt have anything to do with them?

Well... depends. Isn't Bush trying to "bring democracy" to Iraq or something along that line? I admit it's not quite the same sort of attention, but still...

so because a country isnt as "enlightened" as we are we shouldnt have anything to do with them?
Speaking for myself...yes.

If a country chooses to practice slavery, for instance, we should not trade with them. We may not have the authority (or ability) to force them to stop practicing slavery, but we also don't have to condone and support it.

What Saudia Arabia does to women, legally, is only a tiny baby step above slavery. If the US actually decided to put our money where our mouth is, we'd have absolutely no dealings with Saudia Arabia. I don't think we should be allies with countries that treat 50% of their population as subhumans.

But, as we all know, the men who run the show for the US either don't give a fuck about such matters, or even secretly wish the US could be more like SA. They'll talk about how important it is to liberate the women of Iraq from the evil oppressors, but that's just the obligatory "pretend we care about people who aren't rich white Christian males" thing that they've been forced into by the PC brigade.

Yea I have but that does not give you carte blanch to flaunt other nation's internal laws.


I don't need carte blanch to exercise my rights. Women in the US have fought long and hard to get the right s we have. Therefore I will not allow foriegn men to take them from me any more then I would allow american men too. Deal with it!

It's called boycotting something you don't agree with .... maybe you have heard of it.

yeah i have

so we should boycott a country that isnt as "enlightened" as we are?

its not the government who is pushing this on an unwilling public. this is what the people want.

yeah i have

so we should boycott a country that isnt as "enlightened" as we are?

its not the government who is pushing this on an unwilling public. this is what the people want.

Yes we should, and beyond that if they push me I will ... Believe that!

Well... depends. Isn't Bush trying to "bring democracy" to Iraq or something along that line? I admit it's not quite the same sort of attention, but still...

as reason #3 of the war. it resonates with the american public but its still stupid. if iraq turns out not to want democracy thats their business not ours.

I don't need carte blanch to exercise my rights. Women in the US have fought hard to get the right s we have. Therefore I will not allow foriegn men take them from me any more then I would allow american men too. Deal with it!

No you deal with it. Go ahead and drive over there. I dare you to do so and see what happens. Face it, you are forbidden to drive in Saudi Arabia. You can not drive there period. To say you can just shows you have no regard to the fact that you are subject to the laws of the land that you are in. Period. Saudi Arabia says you can not drive? That means you can not drive at all.

yeah i have

so we should boycott a country that isnt as "enlightened" as we are?

its not the government who is pushing this on an unwilling public. this is what the people want.


The men want it, the women don't or they wouldn't be asking for the right to drive. DA!

No you deal with it. Go ahead and drive over there. I dare you to do so and see what happens. Face it, you are forbidden to drive in Saudi Arabia. You can not drive there period. To say you can just shows you have no regard to the fact that you are subject to the laws of the land that you are in. Period. Saudi Arabia says you can not drive? That means you can not drive at all. :sniper::mp5::gundge:

http://usera.imagecave.com/Kormanthor/Earth349/LadyCheeta.png

Don't make me angry .... you wouldn't like me when I'm angry.

yeah i have

so we should boycott a country that isnt as "enlightened" as we are?

It's got fuckall to do with "enlightenment." 50% of their population get to be treated like public sewers.


its not the government who is pushing this on an unwilling public. this is what the people want.Saudi women only got the right to vote within the last few years, and are still routinely barred from exercising the right to do so even though they are nominally supposed to be allowed to. So, really, how the hell can any of us know what "the people" actually want? Half of the people aren't allowed to say a damn thing.

Put it this way: if Saudia Arabia gives equal political, economic, and social power to women for one year, and then "the people" still vote to oppress the living snot out of women, then maybe I'll consider the possibility that their rampant woman-hating is just a cute cultural quirk. Until then, your arguments are no different than somebody insisting that "the people" of the South supported slavery.

Saudi women only got the right to vote within the last few years, and are still routinely barred from exercising the right to do so even though they are nominally supposed to be allowed to.

Just like the blacks right to vote. They had it since what? The late 1860s? how long did it take for them to actually gain the full right to vote? Oh yea...100 years later.

So, really, how the hell can any of us know what "the people" actually want? Half of the people aren't allowed to say a damn thing.

That's because there really is no right to free speech in KSA.

:sniper::mp5::gundge:

I see I struck a nerve. Congratulations on conceding gracefully.

I see I struck a nerve. Congratulations on conceding gracefully.


I don't concede when I am right .... ever!

I don't concede when I am right .... ever!

Except that you are not right. That's the problem. Recognizing when you are wrong. Here, you are wrong.

Except that you are not right. That's the problem. Recognizing when you are wrong. Here, you are wrong.

I'm not wrong, they are wrong .... period! Deal with it! Haven't you learned that you shouldn't try to argue with a woman yet?

I'm not wrong, they are wrong .... period! Deal with it! Haven't you learned that you shouldn't try to argue with a woman yet?

Are they wrong for not allowing women to drive? Yes they are. Are you wrong for saying you can drive in Saudi Arabia because you are a foreigner? Yes you are. Ergo, you are wrong that you can legally drive in Saudi Arabia. You lose.

:pAre they wrong for not allowing women to drive? Yes they are. Are you wrong for saying you can drive in Saudi Arabia because you are a foreigner? Yes you are. Ergo, you are wrong that you can legally drive in Saudi Arabia. You lose.


No I'm not wrong .... If you want to discuss this face to face thats fine with me. Please allow me to be the woman who teachs you not to argue with us. :p

Guys, what are you arguing about? Of course women can drive in Saudi Arabia! They're a bastion of liberalism and freedom! Not like that nasty fascist US.

:p


No I'm not wrong .... If you want to discuss this face to face thats fine with me. Please allow me to be the woman who teachs you not to argue with us. :p

Oh please. I have a mom and a fiance. I do not argue with them. However, this is an internet chat forum. Therefor, I will argue with anyone I want. Yes you are wrong. Just to prove how wrong you are, our girls who wear the uniform of a soldier, still have to dress like Saudi women when they go into town. Yes. We are talking about US Military Women Personnel wearing local dress when they go into town. :eek:

Guys, what are you arguing about? Of course women can drive in Saudi Arabia! They're a bastion of liberalism and freedom! Not like that nasty fascist US.

At least we can legally drive in the US unlike in the nasty fascist SA.

Oh please. I have a mom and a fiance. I do not argue with them. However, this is an internet chat forum. Therefor, I will argue with anyone I want. Yes you are wrong. Just to prove how wrong you are, our girls who wear the uniform of a soldier, still have to dress like Saudi women when they go into town. Yes. We are talking about US Military Women Personnel wearing local dress when they go into town. :eek:

Thats because all military personnel are not considered citizens and must adhere to the rules of the militaries code of justice as apposed to normal US Law.

At least we can legally drive in the US unlike in the nasty fascist SA.
God what is with this throwing 'fascist' around like a cheap catchphrase, this word is used often yet seldom defined. You make it broad enough and anything slightly authoritarian or nationalist/traditionalist is fascist, it's silly.

I'm not wrong, they are wrong .... period! Deal with it! Haven't you learned that you shouldn't try to argue with a woman yet?

Hahahahah that's fuckin' fantastic.

Here you are trying your hardest to bring some much needed equality to the world, and there you go playing the hand of sterotype.

Lol, from my experience of women driving, none of them should be allowed:p

Lol, from my experience of women driving, none of them should be allowed:p

I'm a professional driver, it's what I do for a living. I have zero points on my license after 30 + years of driving .... can you say that?

Thats because all military personnel are not considered citizens and must adhere to the rules of the militaries code of justice as apposed to normal US Law.

OH MY GOD!!!! That is such a load of horsehockey I have ever heard. Listen dearie, both of my parents served in the US Military. They sure as hell were citizens of the US even while in uniform.

I'm not a citizen of their country, I don't recognize their authority.

Cool! So you actually can rob banks, rape women, kill babies, sell and use cocaine outside US?

Cool! So you actually can rob banks, rape women, kill babies, sell and use cocaine outside US?

I don't do any of those things anywhere especially kill babies or rape women. Men are rapist of women .... not other women.

I don't do any of those things anywhere especially kill babies or rape women. Men are rapist of women .... not other women.

So are you saying that women do not rape men?

Damn, I knew this day would come. Soon as women get the right to vote they want to drive. What next? The right to make and keep profits? The right to wear clothing? I hear that in some schools they don't even teach the Rules of Acquisition any more. What's the world coming to?

The right to wear clothing?

nooooooooo, never!!!

Damn, I knew this day would come. Soon as women get the right to vote they want to drive. What next? The right to make and keep profits? The right to wear clothing? I hear that in some schools they don't even teach the Rules of Acquisition any more. What's the world coming to?


As Martin Luther said .... I have a Dream .... My dream is a little differant from his but it is still valid, I dream of a world without war or hate. A world where everyone is equal and we all live in peace.

As Martin Luther said .... I have a Dream .... My dream is a little differant from his but it is still valid I dream of a world without war or hate. A world where everyone is equal and live in peace.

'Imagine aaaaalll the people......':D

As Martin Luther King Jr. said .... I have a Dream .... My dream is a little differant from his but it is still valid, I dream of a world without war or hate. A world where everyone is equal and we all live in peace.

I fixed your post for accuracy. Martin Luther nailed his 95 thesis back during the middle ages. Martin Luther King Jr. gave the I have a dream speech.

I fixed your post for accuracy. Martin Luther nailed his 95 thesis back during the middle ages. Martin Luther King Jr. gave the I have a dream speech.

I never said I was perfect .... but then again neither is anyone else and that includes you. :p

I never said I was perfect .... but then again neither is anyone else and that includes you. :p

Umm I am, quite perfect thank you!

But I did make my point, I can't help it went over your head.

I wished that Saudi Arabia law, about outlawing women to drive a car was law in my country.

Cause, sorry, they can’t drive.

On the highways, they are always using the left lane, while there is room on the right, speeding 100 kmph, while they are allowed to drive 120 kmph.

They make sometimes unpredictable moves.

They can’t park their car without hitting the car in front or behind.

They are always using their mobile phone chitchatting with another woman and thus not paying attention to the road and doing weird stuff.

They have difficulties with seeing and calculating distances.

Without GPS they are lost. With GPS they are lost as well.

Sure woman can do several tasks at the same moment. But not when they are driving. Still, they try to proof they really can’t.

Look, I consider woman as very intelligent and smart humans. But not while they are driving. Those Saudis have a damn good reason to outlaw women.

Evidence:
http://www.ifilm.com/video/2894216
http://soleilani.blogspot.com/2006/08/baby-you-cant-drive-my-car.html

And Google…

:p


No I'm not wrong .... If you want to discuss this face to face thats fine with me. Please allow me to be the woman who teachs you not to argue with us. :p

You see its that kind of hairy-armpitted aggressive feminism that ruins it for everyone.

Umm I am, quite perfect thank you!

Yes you are and humble too ;)

But I did make my point, I can't help it went over your head.

What point is that? I'm sorry but all I see is a feminist ranting and raving over a country that she claims she can drive in but can't.

Yes you are and humble too ;)

Ahhh but the perfect being has no need for humbleness, or indeed, no heed of numbleness!:D

I wished that Saudi Arabia law, about outlawing women to drive a car was law in my country.

Cause, sorry, they can’t drive.

On the highways, they are always using the left lane, while there is room on the right, speeding 100 kmph, while they are allowed to drive 120 kmph.

They make sometimes unpredictable moves.

They can’t park their car without hitting the car in front or behind.

They are always using their mobile phone chitchatting with another woman and thus not paying attention to the road and doing weird stuff.

They have difficulties with seeing and calculating distances.

Without GPS they are lost. With GPS they are lost as well.

Sure woman can do several tasks at the same moment. But not when they are driving. Still, they try to proof they really can’t.

Look, I consider woman as very intelligent and smart humans. But not while they are driving. Those Saudis have a damn good reason to outlaw women.

Evidence:
http://www.ifilm.com/video/2894216
http://soleilani.blogspot.com/2006/08/baby-you-cant-drive-my-car.html

And Google…


Oh goody ... I love contest .... I'll bet I'm a better driver then you. :p

I have no respect for the cultural values of Wahhabism - I couldn't care if they were offended by women of all nationalities heading over to drive on their highways.

That would be a charity I would happily give money to.

'Imagine aaaaalll the people......':D

....livin under Islam...
....you may say I'm a jihadi....
....but I'm not the only one....
....I hope one day you'll join us....................

I have no respect for the cultural values of Wahhabism - I couldn't care if they were offended by women of all nationalities heading over to drive on their highways.

That would be a charity I would happily give money to.

It would definately be a sight.

....livin under Islam...
....you may say I'm a jihadi....
....but I'm not the only one....
....I hope one day you'll join us....................

Bwhahahah!

....livin under Islam...
....you may say I'm a jihadi....
....but I'm not the only one....
....I hope one day you'll join us....................


I don't think so

I don't need carte blanch to exercise my rights. Women in the US have fought long and hard to get the right s we have. Therefore I will not allow foriegn men to take them from me any more then I would allow american men too. Deal with it!

I realise you're struggling to understand this, but if you choose to visit Saudi Arabia, and be a guest in their country, you respect their laws. It's as simple as that. US laws apply to everyone who's in the United States; Saudi laws apply to everyone who's in Saudi Arabia.

Your country's laws are not universal. They do not apply beyond the boundaries of your country.

Or are you seriously arguing that, since I'm French, and we have (almost) free uni education in France, I can arrive in the US, demand to attend university in the US for free, and that I should obtain it? I'm French after all. We French have fought long and hard to get the rights we have. Therefore I should not allow foreigners to deny me those rights when I'm in a foreign country, should I? Based on your "logic".

Having said that: Good luck and bravo to those Saudi women. I hope they succeed.

I think all the women around the world should boycott SA until they give women want they want.

Oh goody ... I love contest .... I'll bet I'm a better driver then you. :p

I'm 100% male.

In general I'm stronger than most women.

But...some women (http://members.1012surfnet.at/franz.mares/Strong4.jpg) are stronger than me. :)

I think all the women around the world should boycott SA until they give women want they want.

I think all men around the world should boycott their own government until they give women the same car driving rights as in SA.

I think all the women around the world should boycott SA until they give women want they want.

And what do South African women want? Nelson is out. I don't think many are too keen on Winnie any more.....

I realise you're struggling to understand this, but if you choose to visit Saudi Arabia, and be a guest in their country, you respect their laws. It's as simple as that. US laws apply to everyone who's in the United States; Saudi laws apply to everyone who's in Saudi Arabia.

Your country's laws are not universal. They do not apply beyond the boundaries of your country.

Or are you seriously arguing that, since I'm French, and we have (almost) free uni education in France, I can arrive in the US, demand to attend university in the US for free, and that I should obtain it? I'm French after all. We French have fought long and hard to get the rights we have. Therefore I should not allow foreigners to deny me those rights when I'm in a foreign country, should I? Based on your "logic".

Having said that: Good luck and bravo to those Saudi women. I hope they succeed.

Screw that!

There's a difference between defying the laws of France, or any country that has reasonably enlightened laws, and respecting Wahhabism, which is a stain on Islam let alone on humanity.

Respect for cultural values goes so far, and entails a certain respect by those cultures themselves - if they have none I see no need to respect them.

To be blunt, I simply won't visit Saudi Arabia in the same way I won't visit North Korea nor Burma - blatant disregard for human rights deserves little sympathy

I realise you're struggling to understand this, but if you choose to visit Saudi Arabia, and be a guest in their country, you respect their laws. It's as simple as that. US laws apply to everyone who's in the United States; Saudi laws apply to everyone who's in Saudi Arabia.

Your country's laws are not universal. They do not apply beyond the boundaries of your country.

Or are you seriously arguing that, since I'm French, and we have (almost) free uni education in France, I can arrive in the US, demand to attend university in the US for free, and that I should obtain it? I'm French after all. We French have fought long and hard to get the rights we have. Therefore I should not allow foreigners to deny me those rights when I'm in a foreign country, should I? Based on your "logic".

Having said that: Good luck and bravo to those Saudi women. I hope they succeed.

Don't talk down to me Mr French, I understand it fine, I just don't agree with it. And I don't care what you or anyone else thinks. SA and other countries like them should be ashamed of themselves for the way they treat women. The men there thinks they are god .... sorry boys that position was taken long before man existed.

I think all the women around the world should boycott SA until they give women want they want.

The first step of that is to get King Abdullah shocked by dropping his hairdryer into his bath. :)
points for reference
But how exactly do you plan for women to boycott Saudi Arabia?

I am definitely starting to regret I began this thread.

The first step of that is to get King Abdullah shocked by dropping his hairdryer into his bath. :)

But how exactly do you plan for women to boycott Saudi Arabia?

Women shouldn't support them in anyway. Don't buy anything from SA.

I think all the women around the world should boycott SA until they give women want they want.

Yeah that will work, as it has already been demostrated who much they care about the woman's POV.

Screw that!

There's a difference between defying the laws of France, or any country that has reasonably enlightened laws, and respecting Wahhabism, which is a stain on Islam let alone on humanity.

Respect for cultural values goes so far, and entails a certain respect by those cultures themselves - if they have none I see no need to respect them.

To be blunt, I simply won't visit Saudi Arabia in the same way I won't visit North Korea nor Burma - blatant disregard for human rights deserves little sympathy

Congratulations on completely and utterly missing my point. You've actually made me say the opposite of what I was saying.

Go back and try again.

I think all the women around the world should boycott SA until they give women want they want.

And how will they protest?

Pointing all together their working hairdryer in the direction of Mecca?

Women shouldn't support them in anyway. Don't buy anything from SA.

Saudi Arabia's biggest export is...

And I don't care what you or anyone else thinks. SA and other countries like them should be ashamed of themselves for the way they treat women.


You do realise that's exactly what I was saying, don't you? Or did that part fly right over your head too? :rolleyes:


The men there thinks they are god .... sorry boys that position was taken long before man existed.

Ain't no such thing. But that's off-topic.

Saudi Arabia's biggest export is...

ROFL. That was easy, but well done anyway. :p I wonder, is Kormanthor going to abide by her own suggestion, and therefore stop driving? Cruel dilemna and irony!

Women shouldn't support them in anyway. Don't buy anything from SA.

Heheh even funnyer. There goes your living then. I mean where do you suppose that the fuel for that car that you drive for a living comes from?

Women shouldn't support them in anyway. Don't buy anything from SA.

Such as...oil!

Very good idea. Do what you want, if you are off the road then I'm fine. :)

Yeah that will work, as it has already been demostrated who much they care about the woman's POV.

Ok how about we don't sell them anymore american weapons. How about we don't buy anymore of their petroleum. How about we change our cars so we don't need there fuel. Hit them where they live ... there wallets. Then they will change their tunes.

Saudi Arabia's biggest export is...
Angry feminists?

Such as...oil!

Very good idea. Do what you want, if you are off the road then I'm fine. :)

You weren't listening, I won't be off the road, I'm a professional driver.

Congratulations on completely and utterly missing my point. You've actually made me say the opposite of what I was saying.

Go back and try again.

I fully understand your point - I understand only that, if you choose to visit a country, you should follow their laws.

Yet why should you? The only reason here is due to protection of self. There's nothing to respect or consider here - the laws of Saudi Arabia are medieval and should be given little 'cultural value'.

Can you give me a reason, given you visit Saudi Arabia, that you, if you are female, should respect their laws?

You may follow them but is that out of consideration for 'centuries of fighting for their values' or simply protection of self due to consequences.

The only alternative is to boycott all their products - that may be tricky due to the fact that their only product is oil - yet you can still make that choice.

If you want.

You weren't listening, I won't be off the road, I'm a professional driver.

Well professional driver, boycot the oil from SA and then you don't have that liquid anymore that actually goes IN your car.

And without that one, you can't drive. Not even professional.

Anyway, so you can screw us, men, professional on the road ? :)

Heheh even funnyer. There goes your living then. I mean where do you suppose that the fuel for that car that you drive for a living comes from?


Oh I don't know ... Alaska ... The Gulf of Mexico .... Brazil .... corn fields .... the sun .... h2o .... kitchen grease from american restaurants ... you get the idea.

You weren't listening, I won't be off the road, I'm a professional driver.

And again where do you get your fuel from?

I fully understand your point - I understand only that, if you choose to visit a country, you should follow their laws.


Exactly. My point is simply this: if you don't want to obey their laws, don't go there. I have no intention of ever visiting Saudi Arabia, primarily for that reason. But if someone does want to go there, well, that person accepts the consequence, which is an obligation to abide by the laws of the country you visit. You make a free choice to visit it, after all.

You weren't listening, I won't be off the road, I'm a professional driver.

I'm going to try and make this simple, since you've completely missed the point - again.

You advocated boycotting all Saudi imports.

The main Saudi import in the US is oil.

You use Saudi oil to power your car.

If you boycott all Saudi imports, you will have to stop driving.

Clear now?

Oh I don't know ... Alaska ... The Gulf of Mexico .... Brazil .... corn fields .... the sun .... h2o .... you get the idea.

Hehe that reminds me of an episode of Freinds.

The on with Joey on some quiz show, and he is asked to name a white thing he may find in his fridge, his reply?

'A cloud, a sheet, a ghost!'

And in reality:

http://www.rd.com/images/content/101404/grp_101404_oil_imports.gif

http://www.rd.com/content/the-new-energy-crisis-a-survival-guide/


In reality diesel fuel can be made from grease and I would say that we have plenty of restaurants in the US.

Oh I don't know ... Alaska ... The Gulf of Mexico .... Brazil .... corn fields .... the sun .... h2o .... you get the idea.
And in reality:

http://www.rd.com/images/content/101404/grp_101404_oil_imports.gif

http://www.rd.com/content/the-new-energy-crisis-a-survival-guide/

Oh I don't know ... Alaska ... The Gulf of Mexico .... Brazil .... corn fields .... the sun .... h2o .... kitchen grease from american restaurants ... you get the idea.

That's hilarious. Please tell me you don't actually believe your car is powered by corn fields, kitchen grease, water and solar energy?

In reality diesel fuel can be made from grease and I would say that we have plenty of restaurants in the US.

Now, does anyone want to tell Kormanthor here why that doesn't work? :D

That's hilarious. Please tell me you don't actually believe your car is powered by corn fields, kitchen grease, water and solar energy?

Taking the hybrid car concept a bit unnecessarily far methinks.

Hehe that reminds me of an episode of Freinds.

The on with Joey on some quiz show, and he is asked to name a white thing he may find in his fridge, his reply?

'A cloud, a sheet, a ghost!'

Think again ... all these places I named produces petroleum, and all the other things produce other types of energy that could replace SA's petroleum.

Please allow me to be the woman who teachs you not to argue with us.

And why shouldn't men argue with women? That doesn't sound much like equality. In fact, that sounds suspiciously like... sexism.

Thats because all military personnel are not considered citizens and must adhere to the rules of the militaries code of justice as apposed to normal US Law.

What on earth gives you the idea that they're not considered citizens? Strange that I was allowed to vote when I was on active duty.

Taking the hybrid car concept a bit unnecessarily far methinks.

You think so .... let me guess you are a oil producer that wants everyone to believe we need you.

And why shouldn't men argue with women? That doesn't sound much like equality. In fact, that sounds suspiciously like... sexism.



What on earth gives you the idea that they're not considered citizens? Strange that I was allowed to vote when I was on active duty.


What gives me the idea? I was in the military, they told me .... dee ta dee .... Here's your sign!

Think again ... all these places I named produces petroleum, and all the other things produce other types of energy that could replace SA's petroleum.

Yup, but the US government is cosying up to Riyadh, which is why that's not going to happen.

So, if you're serious about not wanting to buy any oil from Saudi Arabia, you have two options:

1) stop driving; or

2) buy an electric car.

If you're not prepared to do that, then be aware that you're buying Saudi imports.

You think so .... let me guess you are a oil producer that wants everyone to believe we need you.

I'm an oil producer?

Well, if you want to go that way...

The Federal Republic of Hamilay's main energy export is actually natural gas, harvested from the fields around Valencia Island. Large percentages of Republic oil reserves are stocked for military usage, as power is mainly provided by natural gas, nuclear and hydroelectric sources. However, to be fair, the Republic does have reasonable reserves of oil in the southwest region off the Georgia coast, but makes an effort to be independent as possible of foreign oil sources.

The Republic advocates the use of LPG to power motor vehicles, rather than petrol, for its environmental benefits as well.

Official Statement of the Federal Republic of Hamilay
Ministry of Foreign Affairs/Ministry of Energy
Department of Public Relations

I think all men around the world should boycott their own government until they give women the same car driving rights as in SA.

I think you're either trolling or insane.

Think again ... all these places I named produces petroleum, and all the other things produce other types of energy that could replace SA's petroleum.

Now you see, you are trying to attribute to me that which I did not say, but lets deflect this proper little 'thread fuckup' back to it's protagonist huh!

Can you show me hard evidance that the fuel that you personaly use for the car that you personaly drive, has come from any of these other sources?

I'm an oil producer?

Well, if you want to go that way...


You are the one that brought up the hybrid car concept. Lets see hybrid cars use less gas then normal cars. So I fugured you must be someone that makes money from the sell of petro or you wouldn't have made fun of hybrid cars.

Not allowing women to drive in Saudi Arabia is a perfectly sensible road safety measure. If a burqua or niqab shifts over the driver's eyes you have the potential for a very serious accident.

I went to the Middle East once so I'm practically an authority on these matters and I'm pretty damn certain you'll find that the Saudi's are doing it for the road safety measure above, which is a fine example of them looking after the welfare of their people.


Yeah Right :rolleyes: I'll bet you can make something else up too if I don't believe that.

Not allowing women to drive in Saudi Arabia is a perfectly sensible road safety measure. If a burqua or niqab shifts over the driver's eyes you have the potential for a very serious accident.

I went to the Middle East once so I'm practically an authority on these matters and I'm pretty damn certain you'll find that the Saudi's are doing it for the road safety measure above, which is a fine example of them looking after the welfare of their people.

I wished that Saudi Arabia law, about outlawing women to drive a car was law in my country.

Cause, sorry, they can’t drive.

On the highways, they are always using the left lane, while there is room on the right, speeding 100 kmph, while they are allowed to drive 120 kmph.

They make sometimes unpredictable moves.

They can’t park their car without hitting the car in front or behind.

They are always using their mobile phone chitchatting with another woman and thus not paying attention to the road and doing weird stuff.

They have difficulties with seeing and calculating distances.

Without GPS they are lost. With GPS they are lost as well.

Sure woman can do several tasks at the same moment. But not when they are driving. Still, they try to proof they really can’t.

Look, I consider woman as very intelligent and smart humans. But not while they are driving. Those Saudis have a damn good reason to outlaw women.

Evidence:
http://www.ifilm.com/video/2894216
http://soleilani.blogspot.com/2006/08/baby-you-cant-drive-my-car.html

And Google…

Funny how insurance comapnies accident statistics seem to contradict you 100% there... I mean, they don't offer women cheaper rates out of the goodness of their hearts, but simply because statistically speaking, they are by far the better drivers.

I think you're either trolling or insane.

That one, from what I've seen.

You are the one that brought up the hybrid car concept. Lets see hybrid cars use less gas then normal cars. So I fugured you must be someone that makes money from the sell of petro or you wouldn't have made fun of hybrid cars.

I wasn't making fun of hybrid cars. Read context plzkthx.

I think you're either trolling or insane.

Both thoughts had occured to me.

Yeah Right :rolleyes:

You have some difficulty recognising obvious irony, haven't you?

What gives me the idea? I was in the military, they told me

So was I, and guess what? We were still considered citizens. The jurisdiction (military or civilian) you fall under is complicated and largely depended on the crime you committed and who you committed it against. Of course, in basic they fed us a line of bullshit about not not being citizens and such, but bullshit is all it was.

dee ta dee .... Here's your sign!

:confused:

I am definitely starting to regret I began this thread.

That's NS for you.. you can always count on someone without the most basic aptitude for sarcasm screwing up the entire thread ;)

Funny how insurance comapnies accident statistics seem to contradict you 100% there... I mean, they don't offer women cheaper rates out of the goodness of their hearts, but simply because statistically speaking, they are by far the better drivers.

Bloody sexist policy that really annoys me, that. I've never come close to having an accident, I'm a cautious and safe driver... but I'm male, so obviously my gender makes me a liability. :rolleyes: If companies discriminated the opposite way, there'd be an uproar.

So was I, and guess what? We were still considered citizens. The jurisdiction (military or civilian) you fall under is complicated and largely depended on the crime you committed and who you committed it against. Of course, in basic they fed us a line of bullshit about not not being citizens and such, but bullshit is all it was.



:confused:


Prove it, I think you are wrong

Women shouldn't support them in anyway. Don't buy anything from SA.

http://www.reloaded.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/hysterical.gif

So you would give up driving forthe Saudis after all, then?
Or only drive electric cars from now on?

It's a reference to both Carlos Mencia (Dee ta dee) and Bill Engvall (Here's your sign)

Which, based on this thread, says a lot.


Very good .... there are a few smart people here. Beyond that I'm sure they both make more money then either of us so they must not be as stupid as the sentence above might suggest.

Kormanthor, you haven't replied to this yet:

Yup, but the US government is cosying up to Riyadh, which is why that's not going to happen.

So, if you're serious about not wanting to buy any oil from Saudi Arabia, you have two options:

1) stop driving; or

2) buy an electric car.

If you're not prepared to do that, then be aware that you're buying Saudi imports.

So what will it be? Will you stop driving? Will you switch to an electric car? Or will you continue to buy Saudi imports?

Bloody sexist policy that really annoys me, that. I've never come close to having an accident, I'm a cautious and safe driver... but I'm male, so obviously my gender makes me a liability. :rolleyes: If companies discriminated the opposite way, there'd be an uproar.

They do. Women pay in more for Health insurance, because they might need medical care during pregnancy. I've never been pregnant, but I still have to pay, so there you go...

Prove it, I think you are wrong

He already has. He was allowed to vote.

Hell, I'm not American, and even I knew that members of the US military serving abroad are allowed to vote.

:confused:

It's a reference to both Carlos Mencia (Dee ta dee) and Bill Engvall (Here's your sign)

Which, based on this thread, says a lot.

You are the one that brought up the hybrid car concept. Lets see hybrid cars use less gas then normal cars. So I fugured you must be someone that makes money from the sell of petro or you wouldn't have made fun of hybrid cars.

Heh I love the logic here.

If you make fun of hybrid cars, the only reason that you can possibly have for doing so is that you are an oil producer, or some how make money from the petrol industry!

They do. Women pay in more for Health insurance, because they might need medical care during pregnancy. I've never been pregnant, but I still have to pay, so there you go...

Fair point.

Kormanthor, you haven't replied to this yet:



So what will it be? Will you stop driving? Will you switch to an electric car? Or will you continue to buy Saudi imports?


I have more options then that, bio fuels are sold most everywhere.

I have more options then that, bio fuels are sold most everywhere.

And you intend to use them, yes? You intend to stop using oil for your car completely?

Heh I love the logic here.

If you make fun of hybrid cars, the only reason that you can possibly have for doing so is that you are an oil producer, or some how make money from the petrol industry!

It is one possiblity

Thats because all military personnel are not considered citizens and must adhere to the rules of the militaries code of justice as apposed to normal US Law.

Let me make this painfully clear to you:

In the KSA you are not subject to US law, you are subject to KSA law.

And you intend to use them, yes? You intend to stop using oil for your car completely?


Why not? I guess you like paying $3.00 + a gallon?

I have more options then that, bio fuels are sold most everywhere.

If you plan on getting your car to run on olive oil, I suggest you stop and read up on the subject a little before running your mouth.

To be blunt, I simply won't visit Saudi Arabia in the same way I won't visit North Korea nor Burma - blatant disregard for human rights deserves little sympathy

I don't think anyone is saying that we shouldn't boycott them, disregarding a select few.

But if you don't boycott them and you do go there, blatantly disregarding their laws, expect to be arrested.

For example, if I bought some weed in the Netherlands, legally, that doesn't make it legal in the US.

Catch my drift? It's not saying it's right, it's just saying that "If you don't want to subject yourself to the laws, don't go there and by all means, boycott the place!"

If you plan on getting your car to run on olive oil, I suggest you stop and read up on the subject a little before running your mouth.

I have read up on it, I have ever though seriuosly about investing in bio fuels. So don't talkdown to me like I don't know what I'm talking about.

Why not? I guess you like paying $3.00 + a gallon?

Stop avoiding the question.

Do YOU, yes or no, intend to stop buying oil completely, right now?

Prove it, I think you are wrong

Normally it's the person making the extraordinary claim that bears the burden of proof, but whatever.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/a/miljustice.htm

Jurisdiction of Military Courts. Whether a civilian court has jurisdiction to decide a particular case depends upon several factors, including the status of the parties (age, legal residence, etc.), the type of legal issue involved (criminal or civil, contract dispute, tax delinquency, marital dispute, etc.), and geographical factors (crime committed in New York, contract dispute regarding Florida real estate, etc.). Courts-martial jurisdiction is concerned primarily with the following two questions:

* Personal jurisdiction; that is, is the accused a person subject to the UCMJ?
* Subject-matter jurisdiction; that is, is the conduct prescribed by the UCMJ?

If the answers are "yes" in both instances, then, and only then, does a courts-martial panel have jurisdiction to decide the case.

Subject-Matter Jurisdiction. Generally, courts-martial have power to try any offense under the code except when prohibited from so doing by the Constitution. Jurisdiction of courts-martial depends solely on the accused's status as a person subject to the UCMJ, and not on the "service-connection" of the offense charged. For example, a person subject to the UCMJ is caught shoplifting from a local merchant. The member could be tried by courts-martial, even though the offense itself is not service-connected in a traditional sense.

Note "could" be tried by a courts-martial. When I was in Colorado commanders would often allow minor offenses (assault, MIP, drunk in public) be handled by the local civil courts, as the local judge was a real hardass.

It's a reference to both Carlos Mencia (Dee ta dee) and Bill Engvall (Here's your sign)

Which, based on this thread, says a lot.

Ah. I've heard of Carlos Mencia, and the Wiki told me who Bill Engvall is. I stopped watching TV in 2000 (damned AFN turned me off of it) so I don't catch these things.

Let me make this painfully clear to you:

In the KSA you are not subject to US law, you are subject to KSA law.

Actually, if you're in the military the SOFA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_Forces_Agreement) will determine jurisdiction.

And you intend to use them, yes? You intend to stop using oil for your car completely?

This isn't really an excuse - if you want, there's alternatives to oil-run vehicles - saying there isn't is, again, simply acceding to your own convenience in terms if what you're prepared to do to fight injustice.

I'm entirely 'lucky' in that I don't drive - you can point to the fact that I use electricity, or whatever utilizes Saudi Arabian oil but, as the graph previously shown demonstrates, the USA's entire capacity is only 17% reliant on Saudi Arabian oil - the consumer can make the difference.

(Not that I live in the USA).

The feet of the consumer is a powerful step indeed, possibly the most powerful - it simply takes a coordinated step to have some effect.

Stop avoiding the question.

Do YOU, yes or no, intend to stop buying oil completely, right now?

I can go buy bio fuel today and buy it cheaper so yes I can

Why not? I guess you like paying $3.00 + a gallon?

Biofuels easily cost about 4$+ a gallon.

Otherwise, we'd already be using them ;)

Diesel is a prime example - people are willing buuuut... it's still more expensive to run on biofuel than diesel, even though it requires no change in the engine.

This isn't really an excuse - if you want, there's alternatives to oil-run vehicles - saying there isn't is, again, simply acceding to your own convenience in terms if what you're prepared to do to fight injustice.


That's precisely the point I'm trying to make. Kormanthor called on everyone to stop buying Saudi imports. I want to see whether she intends to do so herself.

I can go buy bio fuel today and buy it cheaper so yes I can

You can, yes. Will you?

I can go buy bio fuel today and buy it cheaper so yes I can

For goodness' sake, I'm not asking you whether you can, I'm asking you whether you're actually going to.

Do YOU, yes or no, intend to stop buying oil completely?

Normally it's the person making the extraordinary claim that bears the burden of proof, but whatever.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/a/miljustice.htm





Note "could" be tried by a courts-martial. When I was in Colorado commanders would often allow minor offenses (assault, MIP, drunk in public) be handled by the local civil courts, as the local judge was a real hardass.



Ah. I've heard of Carlos Mencia, and the Wiki told me who Bill Engvall is. I stopped watching TV in 2000 (damned AFN turned me off of it) so I don't catch these things.



Actually, if you're in the military the SOFA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_Forces_Agreement) will determine jurisdiction.

I was in the service in 1976 - 78 so it might have changed since then. If they lied to me then thats on them.

Actually, if you're in the military the SOFA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_Forces_Agreement) will determine jurisdiction.

No, you are under jurisdiction of the country you are in. At no time do the laws not apply to you.

Sofa is: The SOFA is intended to clarify the terms under which the foreign military is allowed to operate.

Also: Criminal issues vary, but the typical provision in U.S. SOFAs is that U.S. courts will have jurisdiction over crimes committed either by a servicemember against another servicemember or by a servicemember as part of his or her military duty, but the host nation retains jurisdiction over other crimes.

Clearly not under their jurisdiction :rolleyes:

But insane men still drive better than sane women.

Stop being (or pretending to be) a sexist idiot.

I think you're either trolling or insane.

No not trolling.

I go for insane.

But insane men still drive better than sane women.

For goodness' sake, I'm not asking you whether you can, I'm asking you whether you're actually going to.

Do YOU, yes or no, intend to stop buying oil completely?

Yes I do, sooner or later oil will run out and everyone will have too regardless of whether they want to or not. Why is that so hard to understand?

That's precisely the point I'm trying to make. Kormanthor called on everyone to stop buying Saudi imports. I want to see whether she intends to do so herself.

Do you?

My guess would be that Kormanthor isn't really spending time to ensure s/he doesn't use SA oil, hence s/he may be hypocritical over her stance.

Yet this is beside the point.

Yes I do, sooner or later oil will run out and everyone will have too regardless of whether they want to or not. Why is that so hard to understand?

Are you going to do so now?

Funny how insurance comapnies accident statistics seem to contradict you 100% there... I mean, they don't offer women cheaper rates out of the goodness of their hearts, but simply because statistically speaking, they are by far the better drivers.


I know those statistics too. I worked for an insurance company, Fortis.

It's not only the amount of accidents that determines if you're good driver or not.

Women their driving, despite the fewer accidents, is really poor.

Men usually drive faster, take more risks, are more drunk...

We should anyway even if we had plenty of reserves left because of the ozone problems.

Yes I do, sooner or later oil will run out and everyone will have too regardless of whether they want to or not. Why is that so hard to understand?

*sigh*

Are you doing this on purpose, or what? I'm well aware that oil is going to run out.

Do you intend to stop using oil NOW?

I know those statistics too. I worked for an insurance company, Fortis.

It's not only the amount of accidents that determines if you're good driver or not.

Women their driving, despite the fewer accidents, is really poor.

Men usually drive faster, take more risks, are more drunk...

Its that dammed t.gondi again!

Men usually drive faster,

An example of poorer driving skills.

take more risks,

A second...

are more drunk...

And three strikes! you're out.

You know, I was rather appalled when I saw an ad in the Belgian TV (Kanaal Twee or VT Vier) encouraging people to drive drunk.

It's NOT better driving, it's poorer.

I know those statistics too. I worked for an insurance company, Fortis.

It's not only the amount of accidents that determines if you're good driver or not.

Women their driving, despite the fewer accidents, is really poor.

Men usually drive faster, take more risks, are more drunk...

So men are better drivers then women because they drive faster, take more risks, are drunk more often then women .... is that what you are saying?

Stop being (or pretending to be) a sexist idiot.

I'm not a sexist!

I said before that women are smart humans.

I'll even dare to say, that most women are smarter than men.

But they can't drive. Sorry.

I'm not a sexist!

I said before that women are smart humans.

I'll even dare to say, that most women are smarter than men.

But they can't drive. Sorry.


Put your money where your mouth is, I need christmas money.

Yeah and their economy will be free of tourist cash as well :p

*sigh* The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia doesn't have a tourist industry. You cannot go there on vacation, they don't issue visas for that. To visit the Kingdom you must have a local sponsor and declare why you are visiting.

The only tourism is the Hajj, and that is of course restricted to Muslims. :headbang:

I know those statistics too. I worked for an insurance company, Fortis.

It's not only the amount of accidents that determines if you're good driver or not.

Women their driving, despite the fewer accidents, is really poor.

Men usually drive faster, take more risks, are more drunk...

And you consider that good driving???

*sigh*

Are you doing this on purpose, or what? I'm well aware that oil is going to run out.

Do you intend to stop using oil NOW?

I already answered that .... go back to sleep.

But they can't drive. Sorry.

Rubbish. Most women quite obviously are good drivers.

I already answered that.

Do I really need to go back and list your quotes to show that you haven't? Or don't you understand the meaning of a simple word like "now"?

Let me make this painfully clear to you:

In the KSA you are not subject to US law, you are subject to KSA law.


Let me make this painfully clear to you; I don't care .... they are nobody to me.

So men are better drivers then women because they drive faster, take more risks, are drunk more often then women .... is that what you are saying?

No, YOU just took one thing to prepare your 'evidence'.

How many Formule1 or Formule Indy pilots are women?

How many of them won races?

How many of them won a championship?

Formula 1 exists now for over 50 years. Not one single woman won a race (more than 600 races are finished now).

I'll be silent about the entire championship.

Look, it's not sexist at all to say that women their visual-motoric skills are less.

Rubbish. Most women quite obviously are good drivers.



Do I really need to go back and list your quotes to show that you haven't? Or don't you understand the meaning of a simple word like "now"?


Here let me bring my answer to you since you can't find it:

Originally Posted by Ariddia
For goodness' sake, I'm not asking you whether you can, I'm asking you whether you're actually going to.

Do YOU, yes or no, intend to stop buying oil completely?

Yes I do , sooner or later oil will run out and everyone will have too regardless of whether they want to or not. Why is that so hard to understand?

No, YOU just took one thing to prepare your 'evidence'.

How many Formule1 or Formule Indy pilots are women?

How many of them won races?

How many of them won a championship?

Formula 1 exists now for over 50 years. Not one single woman won a race (more than 600 races are finished now).

I'll be silent about the entire championship.

Look, it's not sexist at all to say that women their visual-motoric skills are less.

That's a bit like asking why no women ever won the male football world championship, you know :rolleyes:

No, YOU just took one thing to prepare your 'evidence'.

How many Formule1 or Formule Indy pilots are women?

How many of them won races?

How many of them won a championship?

Formula 1 exists now for over 50 years. Not one single woman won a race (more than 600 races are finished now).

I'll be silent about the entire championship.

Look, it's not sexist at all to say that women their visual-motoric skills are less.

Yes it is, because my visual-motoric skills are not less. Want to test the theory?

Here let me bring my answer to you since you can't find it:

Originally Posted by Ariddia
For goodness' sake, I'm not asking you whether you can, I'm asking you whether you're actually going to.

Do YOU, yes or no, intend to stop buying oil completely?

Yes I do , sooner or later oil will run out and everyone will have too regardless of whether they want to or not. Why is that so hard to understand?

*sigh*

I see you're still having difficulty with this. So I'll make it very simple and point you to the post I made in response to that, which you haven't replied to yet:


Are you doing this on purpose, or what? I'm well aware that oil is going to run out.

Do you intend to stop using oil NOW?

*sigh*

I see you're still having difficulty with this. So I'll make it very simple and point you to the post I made in response to that, which you haven't replied to yet:

I just have one question .... are you color blind?

That's a bit like asking why no women ever won the male football world championship, you know :rolleyes:

For driving a car, you don't need to be Hercules.

Muscle power is not that needed.

Ayrton Senna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayrton_Senna), one of the best pilots around, was a dwarf.

I'm pretty sure that most women would knock him down in a fight. :)

Thats because all military personnel are not considered citizens and must adhere to the rules of the militaries code of justice as apposed to normal US Law.

When a person is in a foreign country, short of them being under agreed diplomatic immunity, they must abide by the laws of the country they are in. Ergo, when a US Citizen, who is not a diplomat, is in Saudi Arabia, they are subject to the laws of Saudi Arabia, and can be arrested, confined, etc. by that jurisdiction in accord with that countries laws... It does not matter whether they are Military Personnel or Civilians.

When a person is in a foreign country, short of them being under agreed diplomatic immunity, they must abide by the laws of the country they are in. Ergo, when a US Citizen, who is not a diplomat, is in Saudi Arabia, they are subject to the laws of Saudi Arabia, and can be arrested, confined, etc. by that jurisdiction in accord with that countries laws... It does not matter whether they are Military Personnel or Civilians.

Bingo ... you figured it out all by yourself .... diplomatic immunity is what I was talking about.

I just have one question .... are you color blind?

Bloody hell, I'm struggling hard to remain patient and polite with you.

Saying that you intend to stop using oil because it's going to run out is NOT a commitment to stop right now. It could mean anything, including "I'll stop when I have no choice". Given that you've been dancing around the issue and refusing to reply for several pages, I am quite justified in asking you (repeatedly) for a straight answer.

I'll consider that your last post was a 'yes'. And I'm not going to say any more, or I'll probably get a temporary ban for saying what I think of you.

Bingo ... you figured it out all by yourself .... diplomatic immunity is what I was talking about.

She's a troll. She has to be a troll. Nobody can really be this... [self-censored].

"Stop feeding it" is all I can say to everyone in this thread.

Yes it is, because my visual-motoric skills are not less. Want to test the theory?

What makes you sure you are better than me, anyway?

I don't care if you're a professional driver.
And what does that mean anyway? Driving a cab or a truck all day long?

Well, I'm carting since 9 years. I'm not the fastest around, but in a 15 minutes race I take over the Average Joe 4 or 5 times.

Look, I really believe you can drive. No doubt about that one.

This story isn’t about you, but women in general.

If you are a professional driver than you have noticed, just like me and all other people on the planet, that it are usually women taking up the left lane on the highway at low speed.
And this while there’s room enough on the right.

If you ride behind them and keep a safe distance, it can take 10 minutes before they notice you and move to the right…. We all recognize this situation.

That’s reality, not a myth.

Bloody hell, I'm struggling hard to remain patient and polite with you.

Saying that you intend to stop using oil because it's going to run out is NOT a commitment to stop right now. It could mean anything, including "I'll stop when I have no choice". Given that you've been dancing around the issue and refusing to reply for several pages, I am quite justified in asking you (repeatedly) for a straight answer.

I'll consider that your last post was a 'yes'. And I'm not going to say any more, or I'll probably get a temporary ban for saying what I think of you.


I guess you missed the red .... " Yes I do " you think? Oh and by the way I'm struggling hard to remain patient and polite with you too.

Don't talk down to me Mr French, I understand it fine, I just don't agree with it. And I don't care what you or anyone else thinks. SA and other countries like them should be ashamed of themselves for the way they treat women. The men there thinks they are god .... sorry boys that position was taken long before man existed.

This here precisely illustrates your problem. "You don't care what we think..." We're merely pointing out, not an OPINION on the correctness of Saudi Law; but the FACT that when within the nation you're SUBJECT to that nation's laws. That is, if you violate those laws, that nation has full jurisdiction to act upon you for violating their law.... We're not telling you what we THINK, we're telling you what is a simple fact of jurisdictional legal power.

It's good that your think the Saudis should be boycotted for such awful laws. And I'm glad you and others think such laws are bad.

None of this however negates the fact that your statement indicating that you are not subject to a foreign nation's laws when visiting that foreign nation, is wrong.

What makes you sure you are better than me, anyway?

I don't care if you're a professional driver.
And what does that mean anyway? Driving a cab or a truck all day long?

Well, I'm carting since 9 years. I'm not the fastest around, but in a 15 minutes race I take over the Average Joe 4 or 5 times.

Look, I really believe you can drive. No doubt about that one.

This story isn’t about you, but women in general.

If you are a professional driver than you have noticed, just like me and all other people on the planet, that it are usually women taking up the left lane on the highway at low speed.
And this while there’s room enough on the right.

If you ride behind them and keep a safe distance, it can take 10 minutes before they notice you and move to the right…. We all recognize this situation.

That’s reality, not a myth.

My point is you can't make a general across the board statement like that because there are exceptions to every rule, if what you say is true.

Edwinasia is Homer Simpson.

She's a troll. She has to be a troll. Nobody can really be this... [self-censored].

"Stop feeding it" is all I can say to everyone in this thread.

Oh please mary I wondered when you would fall back on calling me a troll. I am expressing my opinion, it is my right to do so just as it is yours to do the same.

Let me make this painfully clear to you; I don't care .... they are nobody to me.

Then my suggestion stands - either do not go there or go to jail when you do.

This here precisely illustrates your problem. "You don't care what we think..." We're merely pointing out, not an OPINION on the correctness of Saudi Law; but the FACT that when within the nation you're SUBJECT to that nation's laws. That is, if you violate those laws, that nation has full jurisdiction to act upon you for violating their law.... We're not telling you what we THINK, we're telling you what is a simple fact of jurisdictional legal power.

It's good that your think the Saudis should be boycotted for such awful laws. And I'm glad you and others think such laws are bad.

None of this however negates the fact that your statement indicating that you are not subject to a foreign nation's laws when visiting that foreign nation, is wrong.

Women should be able to drive anywhere in the world. They made a stupid law so they can continue to oppress women. They are wrong for doing that. My point is that I will not support their hair brained laws .... period.

Edwinasia is Homer Simpson.

Does that make Kormanthor Meg Griffin?

Bingo ... you figured it out all by yourself .... diplomatic immunity is what I was talking about.

Yep, and unless you've been appointed as the US Ambassador to Saudi Arabia, if you visit there, you're subject to their laws.

Then my suggestion stands - either do not go there or go to jail when you do.


They would have to catch me first if I did. Beyond that I believe I said I have no intention on going there for any reason anyway.

Yep, and unless you've been appointed as the US Ambassador to Saudi Arabia, if you visit there, you're subject to their laws.

Nope I could be one of the ambassadors aides too. :p

Women should be able to drive anywhere in the world. They made a stupid law so they can continue to oppress women. They are wrong for doing that. My point is that I will not support their hair brained laws .... period.

Well, you're SUBJECT to it, regardless whether you support it or not, when visiting there... I'm sure you can lodge your complaint to their legal authority right before they pronounce the penalty.

I have my opinion and it will NOT change so lets just agree to disagree shall we and be done with it.

I have my opinion and it will NOT change so lets just agree to disagree shall we and be done with it.

Ok, we all agree that women can't drive. :p

Women should be able to drive anywhere in the world. They made a stupid law so they can continue to oppress women. They are wrong for doing that. My point is that I will not support their hair brained laws .... period.


And as a citerzen of the USA, have you been asked to?

All the more reason to stay away from that backward shithole. I guess they still haven't grown out of the Middle Ages; not a surprise, given the sheer ignorance, corruption and incompetence that permeates every level of their government, but still disturbing. If I'm ever in the Middle East, I'm going to the UAE or another one of the sane countries in the region.

I'd like to sneak in to Mecca for trolling purposes, but that will take a while.

I have my opinion and it will NOT change so lets just agree to disagree shall we and be done with it.

Jurisdiction is not a matter of OPINION... If I visit the UK, I can't go driving on the right side of the road, and tell the police officer that in my opinion he does not have the jurisdiction to ticket me (or worse) [Well, I CAN, I seriously doubt it would improve the matter any....]

In my opinion the Saudi law is bad.... and should go... (and more than just thus one).... But if I visit (which I won't), regardless of my opinion about their laws, I am subject to follow them.

They have no jurisdiction over women of other nationalities. I am a licensed driver of over thirty years and will drive anywhere I wish.

Actually, if you're in their country, you sort of have to follow their country's laws, whether those laws are right, or are just a form of misogynistic gender warfare left over from the dark ages.

If they started blathering on about women not being allowed to drive in other countries, then you'd have a point. But in their own country, they make the laws.

Kormanthor,

I'm only joking a little.

Look they still can't drive. :p

But seriously that SA law should disappear.

Together with the mandatory veil, the restrictions to the job market, etc...

It's sad, that such women oppression still exists...

I have my opinion and it will NOT change so lets just agree to disagree shall we and be done with it.

Do you admit that you are wrong about driving in Saudi Arabia?

Women should be able to drive anywhere in the world. They made a stupid law so they can continue to oppress women. They are wrong for doing that. My point is that I will not support their hair brained laws .... period.

Alright. Go to Saudi Arabia and get arrested. I hear Saudi prisons are great tourist destinations.
(ba-dum PSH)

Seriously though, anybody else find it amusing that a thread which STARTED as an attempt to hijack itself into a US-bashing fest got sidetracked into something actually related to the majority of the content in the OP? 'Cause I sure do.

Ok, we all agree that women can't drive. :p

No, Homer, we don't.

Let me make this painfully clear to you; I don't care .... they are nobody to me.

I think you may begin to think differently if they arrested you and put you away for a year for driving in their country.

And it's true; women generally are worse drivers than men. Men generally drive quicker, but a lot of women just can't do the basics. I'm generalising and, before you jump down my throat, every generalisation has exceptions, so deal with it.

No, Homer, we don't. Seconded :rolleyes:

I think you may begin to think differently if they arrested you and put you away for a year for driving in their country.

And it's true; women generally are worse drivers than men. Men generally drive quicker, but a lot of women just can't do the basics. I'm generalising and, before you jump down my throat, every generalisation has exceptions, so deal with it.


Well I'm glad you agree its actually men that are worse drivers then women and generally don't listen because they think they know it all even when they don't bother to read what a person takes time to write.

Well I'm glad you agree its actually men that are worse drivers then women and generally don't listen because they think they know it all even when they don't bother to read what a person takes time to write.

I think if you read again you will find that I agree with nothing of the sort.

Well I'm glad you agree its actually men that are worse drivers then women and generally don't listen because they think they know it all even when they don't bother to read what a person takes time to write.

I have a problem with the bolded statement as he did not say that men drivers are worse than women drivers.

I have a problem with the bolded statement as he did not say that men drivers are worse than women drivers.

Women can't drive. That's all. :)

I have a problem with the bolded statement as he did not say that men drivers are worse than women drivers.

He? :p

Last time I attempt fucken humour here, I'll tell yez that much.....

Why are the US still supporting this bunch of backward mediaeval misogynists?

Oil

I think you may begin to think differently if they arrested you and put you away for a year for driving in their country.

And it's true; women generally are worse drivers than men. Men generally drive quicker, but a lot of women just can't do the basics. I'm generalising and, before you jump down my throat, every generalisation has exceptions, so deal with it.

Any linkage?

Why are the US still supporting this bunch of backward mediaeval misogynists?



Oil.

Any linkage?

To what?

Oil.


Oil!

Any linkage?

Just jump in your car and drive.

Sooner or later you will see some woman struggling with the concept car.

You will see things like using her left direction light (=don’t know the real word in English) and turning right.

For some reason many women mixing left and right all the time. Very funny.

Look at the average women, how she’s parking her car…

It’s all common, the part of their brain that’s dealing spatial information is different and smaller compared to that of men.

Also women their motoric skills are in general much lower.

You want evidence? Ask some women to throw a ball. :)

To the claims that women are generally worse drivers.

I'm sorry, I didn't realise that personal opinions had to have links to them.

To what?

To the claims that women are generally worse drivers.

Snip bullshit motoric snip other bullshit.

Quoth the Homer Simpson.

Alright. I have to reply now. Kormanthor, you'd find that your opinion would be better accepted if you would take the anger out of your statements.

As for women and driving, well, I've never really paid attention to the gender of other drivers on the road, and for one thing, the stupidity of drivers is not limited to the question of male and female. Speaking as a man, most of the time I learned how to drive from my mother when I was 15-16. She gives me no reason to assume that women are necessarily bad drivers. Neither has any other woman. If we want people to stop asserting that men are better than women, or women are better than men, then we have to stop this rampant generalization. There is no conclusive study that women are somehow worse at driving than men that I know of, because for some reason driving ability depends much on individual ability. If there is, I'll believe it when I see the source.

The fact that you cannot drive in Saudi Arabia, Kormanthor, does not change when you assert that you are not a citizen of that country. Unless you have diplomatic immunity. In which case it doesn't matter. But then, why wait until now to assert that? To get a sense of manipulation? And even so, Saudi Arabia can choose not to respect that immunity and jail you anyway. It would have consequences, but if they were willing, they'd do it. You probably are just simply not important enough to ruin international relations. So stop assuming that all of us male nationstaters are somehow trying to oppress you and impose our will upon you. It just isn't so.

I also think that you should have replied to Arridia's question, but avoiding it to suit your own purposes is a fine choice that apparently was made in about 5 seconds.

I'm sorry, I didn't realise that personal opinions had to have links to them.

Well if you qualified your statement with "in my opinion" or something, then I wouldn't have treated it as if you were making it out to be fact.

Well, I agree with saudi arabia. Muslim women shouldn't be allowed to drive. Or hold a job or go to school for that matter.

I agree. Preventing the latter is very important, as once they learn to read, they can pick up all sorts of ideas.

Indeed.

Well, I agree with saudi arabia. Muslim women shouldn't be allowed to drive. Or hold a job or go to school for that matter.

I agree. Preventing the latter is very important, as once they learn to read, they can pick up all sorts of ideas.

I agree. Preventing the latter is very important, as once they learn to read, they can pick up all sorts of ideas.

Like wanting freedom, democracy, human rights, religious tolerance, peace...

Yes, that sort of lunacy (though I was thinking more of them trying to get served in the bar....)

Lunatic Goofballs is cool.

We need more goofing and balls in Saudi Arabia, followed by education that leads to Lunacy.

*nods*

Like wanting freedom, democracy, human rights, religious tolerance, peace...


Yes, that sort of lunacy (though I was thinking more of them trying to get served in the bar....)

This thread is perhaps the worst reasonably long one I have ever read on this forum. Actually read the posts you are replying to.

And to the OP: good for them. I loathe my government's involvement with that country.

Yes, that sort of lunacy (though I was thinking more of them trying to get served in the bar....)

Well, you could just hop over to the UAE for that.

I wished that Saudi Arabia law, about outlawing women to drive a car was law in my country.

Cause, sorry, they can’t drive.

On the highways, they are always using the left lane, while there is room on the right, speeding 100 kmph, while they are allowed to drive 120 kmph.

They make sometimes unpredictable moves.

They can’t park their car without hitting the car in front or behind.

They are always using their mobile phone chitchatting with another woman and thus not paying attention to the road and doing weird stuff.

They have difficulties with seeing and calculating distances.

Without GPS they are lost. With GPS they are lost as well.

Sure woman can do several tasks at the same moment. But not when they are driving. Still, they try to proof they really can’t.

Look, I consider woman as very intelligent and smart humans. But not while they are driving. Those Saudis have a damn good reason to outlaw women.

Evidence:
http://www.ifilm.com/video/2894216
http://soleilani.blogspot.com/2006/08/baby-you-cant-drive-my-car.html

And Google…
Should we also ban chinese people from driving? If I videotaped my friend from highschool, George, backing into a large stationary object (a giant pole in a parking garage) causing $1000 in damage, would that be evidence that all chinese people are terrible drivers and shouldn't be allowed behind the wheel?

Why are the US still supporting this bunch of backward mediaeval misogynists?
Because it is convenient for the United States to have an "ally" with all that nice oil?

Anyway, the whole thing is disgusting. It is hard to take Saudi Arabia seriously when this is a "social issue." This should be plain common sense. Of course women can't be allowed to drive! My God, look at the state of roads in the West! Women and atheists are ruining everything. First they want to drive, then they want us to stop beating them to death when they get out of line. The nerve! ;)

Not allowing women to drive in Saudi Arabia is a perfectly sensible road safety measure. If a burqua or niqab shifts over the driver's eyes you have the potential for a very serious accident.

I went to the Middle East once so I'm practically an authority on these matters and I'm pretty damn certain you'll find that the Saudi's are doing it for the road safety measure above, which is a fine example of them looking after the welfare of their people.
How about they stop requiring women to wear burquas or niqabs then?