NationStates Jolt Archive

Despite only being 18, I quite agree.

Incidentally, an anecdote regarding restaurants, and a question;

-snip-

Was I correct to ask the family to stop?

Yes you were and the right thing for them to do would have been to apologise and stop their child from being a pain in the ass. Fail that, have management sort out their lot. :)

Yes you were and the right thing for them to do would have been to apologise and stop their child from being a pain in the ass. Fail that, have management sort out their lot. :)

Management did. Thank god:D

Management did. Thank god:D

How'd they react to management?

It can't have been that "upmarket" then.

Scousers can, strangely, make some money....:eek:

Not that a Ralph Lauren shirt and shiny watch stops one being an obnoxious oik.

Despite only being 18, I quite agree.


This Tuesday, my parents, regrettably alive brother and I stopped at an "upmarket" restaurant in the peak district for a meal, and, as nice as the restaurant and food were, the experiance was ruined by a raucous family of scousers


It can't have been that "upmarket" then.

How'd they react to management?

Grudgingly...:D

Yes you were and the right thing for them to do would have been to apologise and stop their child from being a pain in the ass. Fail that, have management sort out their lot. :)My advice exactly.

My reaction to my 14 year-old nephew doing same would have been "Stop being obnoxious or you can go sit out in the car while I eat." My nieces and nephews know me as a bit of a hard-ass, but I seem to be well enough liked.

Scousers can, strangely, make some money....:eek:

Not that a Ralph Lauren shirt and shiny watch stops one being an obnoxious oik.

I blame the labour government then. Still, I'm surprised that scousers would want to go somewhere like that. I remember when a sit down wimpy was a treat for them.

I blame the labour government then. Still, I'm surprised that scousers would want to go somewhere like that. I remember when a sit down wimpy was a treat for them.

Indeed....:D

Is it okay to hate kids?If you are able to see what they will become, yes.

the only reason i hate kids is my little cousin, who is a tree year old spoiled brat. whenever he comes over, he hurts and paints on my dog, he steals and hides my stuff, and gets away with it.

the only reason i hate kids is my little cousin, who is a tree year old spoiled brat. whenever he comes over, he hurts and paints on my dog, he steals and hides my stuff, and gets away with it.Then punish him. Or his parents.

Then punish him. Or his parents.

vey true

I hate children for the same reason I hate most people...

They are, by and large, annoying, stupid, completely void of common sense, decency, and manners, and think they're entitled to everything just because they waaaannnnttt iiiiiiiitttttt.

I don't hate ALL children, just the all-too-many who fit that. But it's okay, I hate ANYONE who fits those standards no matter how old they are. ;)


Really, kids CAN be cute and fun and all that, but it seems like all too many parents are completely incapable of bringing their offspring under control, don't feel like bringing their offspring under control, or think their children are behaving perfectly fine even though they've been spoiled to hell. :headbang:

I don't hate them. They actually make excellent pizza toppings if you cook them right.

I don't hate kids. I see them as clean slates on which I can draw.

For example: my daughter's friend comes over to our house. Her family is Muslim.

After a few short visits, and hanging out with my daughter, she's secretly a Pentecostal Christian, and eats bacon at our house, without her parents' knowledge.

We could have shown her the ways of Dogbertism, but I'm sure that everyone has their own message to inscribe on the minds of impressionable children.

I don't hate kids. I see them as clean slates on which I can draw.

For example: my daughter's friend comes over to our house. Her family is Muslim.

After a few short visits, and hanging out with my daughter, she's secretly a Pentecostal Christian, and eats bacon at our house, without her parents' knowledge.


And I am sure this is completely, totally, 100% true and not an absolute lie.

Aside from the obvious that you're comparing apples to oranges... there is no race involve when it comes to the children. We're stating our contempt in general for the little blighters and not for one race of brats in particular. I'm guessing...

In a sense, though, children no more choose to be children than we choose the gender, race, or economic status we are born into.

They can't decide to be adults and BANG! age ten years overnight, any more than I can change being half Puerto Rican and half Sicilian-American.

In a sense, though, children no more choose to be children than we choose the gender, race, or economic status we are born into.

They can't decide to be adults and BANG! age ten years overnight, any more than I can change being half Puerto Rican and half Sicilian-American.

But they can choose to listen to the older people around them who say, "no, don't do that. You shouldn't have a tantrum in public." (for example) or they can choose to not listen and act contrary to the instruction of the adult or older person.

They can pick if they want to listen and adapt to meet the expectations of the adults around them to a small degree. That is the difference. Children can make the choice to act less "childish".

Even if one is born into one of the general situations you mention, they do have a choice...

You can technically pick gender (sex change operation anyone?). You may be born a girl but you can become a boy.

A person may be born into riches but can change that with stupid decisions, or vice versa, be born into poverty and acquire wealth.

A lot of this has to do with choice.

Race doesn't work like this because we don't choose to be born in any particular race and we cannot change it at the end of the day.

Impatience. Their ability to empathize with other creatures is poorly developed. Difficulty listening to and following directions. Short attention spans. Difficulty keeping their voices moderated.

;) You realize you've described a MUCH larger group than kids, right?

Like drivers, cell-phone users, men who are lost, teenagers, people in stores, people who think that someone looked at them the wrong way, many posters on the internet.....

I don't hate kids. I see them as clean slates on which I can draw.

For example: my daughter's friend comes over to our house. Her family is Muslim.

After a few short visits, and hanging out with my daughter, she's secretly a Pentecostal Christian, and eats bacon at our house, without her parents' knowledge.

We could have shown her the ways of Dogbertism, but I'm sure that everyone has their own message to inscribe on the minds of impressionable children.

What the hell is your problem with Christians?

So my wifes sister, who adopted, won't shut up about us having to have kids. My wife is too nice to tell her to zip it. I was so fucking annoyed the other day when she said something like "You guys need to have kids. Nothing brings two people together like having a child to take care of. You can't really know your spouse fully until you do". BULLSHIT! She's lucky I can hold my tongue.

I suppose telling her you and your wife don't need a crutch to prop up your marriage would be a big no-no? ;)

I'm also not opposed to dispensing tranquilizers to children on airplanes if they're going to cry the entire time.

You can always take a sleeping pill.

And I am sure this is completely, totally, 100% true and not an absolute lie.

Me too. I have no reason to doubt anything RO/DK/etc says, ever. Especially with regards to Muslims.

;) You realize you've described a MUCH larger group than kids, right?

Like drivers, cell-phone users, men who are lost, teenagers, people in stores, people who think that someone looked at them the wrong way, many posters on the internet.....Yes, but most of them grow out of stupid faster than kids. And I love children. From afar. The further the better.

But they can choose to listen to the older people around them who say, "no, don't do that. You shouldn't have a tantrum in public." (for example) or they can choose to not listen and act contrary to the instruction of the adult or older person.

They can pick if they want to listen and adapt to meet the expectations of the adults around them to a small degree. That is the difference. Children can make the choice to act less "childish".

Even if one is born into one of the general situations you mention, they do have a choice...

You can technically pick gender (sex change operation anyone?). You may be born a girl but you can become a boy.

A person may be born into riches but can change that with stupid decisions, or vice versa, be born into poverty and acquire wealth.

A lot of this has to do with choice.

Race doesn't work like this because we don't choose to be born in any particular race and we cannot change it at the end of the day.

I thought that "the definition of being a child was being immature".
You cannot choose immediately not to be immature.

I was careful to word my post as I did. You cannot choose which gender you are BORN as. You cannot choose the socio-economic status you are BORN INTO. You cannot change your ethnicity. As soon as you open your eyes and get smacked on the ass for the first time, those things ARE. You may be able to alter some of them later, but you cannot change the circumstances of your birth at birth.

Neither can you choose not to be a kid as a kid.

I'll be the first to say there are age-appropriate activities for kids, and those they will do less well at. And there are places some kids may be able to go that others are not.

Case in point:

My mother took my brother and me to museums since we were in the stroller, really. When we were seven and eight, she decided to take us to the Guggenheim -- a modern art museum, very different from a more family-oriented place such as the American Museum of Natural History.

She told us before we went in that we must speak quietly, that we could not run around, that we must hold her hand and that we must not touch anything. If we did, we'd be warned once, then taken home on the second time we disobeyed.

We're walking quietly through the museum, and there is a display case, at waist height, that was poorly placed and jutted out into the aisle. My brother, who was walking and holding my mother's hand, bumped it slightly.

The security guard comes running over and starts yelling at my mother, "THAT CASE HAS AN ALARM IN IT, HE COULD HAVE SET IT OFF BUMPING INTO IT!"

And my mother said, "First, lower your voice, this is a museum. Second, my child was not running around, he's walking and holding my hand, and he bumped into a case that's in a bad spot. Third, he didn't break anything. Fourth, you saw the whole thing -- if the alarm was set off -- and clearly it hasn't been bumped hard enough to be set off, you could certainly tell your boss it was an ACCIDENT."

A whole lot of unpleasantness for what was, all in all, NOT a big deal, that anyone could have done, and I am convinced simply happened because the guard did not feel children should be in a modern art museum no matter how they behaved.

Yes, but most of them grow out of stupid faster than kids.

But they are still acting as you characterize way past childhood, which would logically show that they do not "grow out of stupid faster than kids."

I thought that "the definition of being a child was being immature".
You cannot choose immediately not to be immature.

If being immature means being a child, then certainly many adults could be considered children if we use your wording.

There are certain crossroads in life that we reach at one time or another and we must make a choice.

But they are still acting as you characterize way past childhood, which would logically show that they do not "grow out of stupid faster than kids."Touche. Maybe they should be sterilized for their failure.:D

You can always take a sleeping pill.
I think it's much easier if the one screaming child takes a sleeping pill than having the rest of the passengars on the plane take one.

I think it's much easier if the one screaming child takes a sleeping pill than having the rest of the passengars on the plane take one.

Exactly.
On the other hand, maybe people should get used to having to put up with people who do not always do everything to their liking, as it happens every day.

Exactly.
On the other hand, maybe people should get used to having to put up with people who do not always do everything to their liking, as it happens every day.
Yes, but I think that in a confined area everyone else shouldn't have to put up with a parent's inability to look after their kid.

In Spain, it doesn't appear that we have a problem with children who can not behave, or with parents who are too busy or too important to raise their children properly. So perhaps all this anger directed at parents and children in your society should also be directed in part at yourselves? Parents and childrens are a part of your society, and surely they do not live in isolation. What other cultural influences are causing your children to behave like little monsters, and your parents to behave like helpless infants?

In Spain, it doesn't appear that we have a problem with children who can not behave, or with parents who are too busy or too important to raise their children properly. So perhaps all this anger directed at parents and children in your society should also be directed in part at yourselves? Parents and childrens are a part of your society, and surely they do not live in isolation. What other cultural influences are causing your children to behave like little monsters, and your parents to behave like helpless infants?
Well, a lot of parents seem to have never taken a single psychology course and do not realize that giving positive reinforcement for negative actions will result in more of these actions. A lot of parents also seem to want to be friends with their children instead of being parents, so they let the kids run amok because it makes them happy, regardless of whether it's good for the kids in the long run or not.

Well, a lot of parents seem to have never taken a single psychology course and do not realize that giving positive reinforcement for negative actions will result in more of these actions. A lot of parents also seem to want to be friends with their children instead of being parents, so they let the kids run amok because it makes them happy, regardless of whether it's good for the kids in the long run or not.

What parent takes psychology courses? It's common sense. It would half to be, or the human species would not still be around.

It sounds to me like what you are describing is an extension of the selfishness and wontan consumerism that seems to pervade Amerikan society. Is it any wonder the kids are turning out as mini versions of their materialistic parents?

What parent takes psychology courses? It's common sense. It would half to be, or the human species would not still be around.

It sounds to me like what you are describing is an extension of the selfishness and wontan consumerism that seems to pervade Amerikan society. Is it any wonder the kids are turning out as mini versions of their materialistic parents?

Is it a wonder that supposed adults can't even stand to have children around in public? Selfish indeed.

I only hate the smelly, messy, loud ones. The rest are okay.:p

What the hell is your problem with Christians?

The girl was Muslim. My daughter turned her into a born-again Christian.

And I am sure this is completely, totally, 100% true and not an absolute lie.

And I am sure you have no idea what goes on over at my house.

Zero credibility you have on that subject, ace.

The girl was Muslim. My daughter turned her into a born-again Christian.

like magic?

I need to learn this trick.......do you need flash paper for it? or handkerchiefs?

The girl was Muslim. My daughter turned her into a born-again Christian.

How amused would you be were this to half happened the other way around?

You are encouraging a child to disobey her parents and go against her religion. That is disgusting.

You are encouraging a child to disobey her parents and go against her religion. That is disgusting.

I think she decides 'her religion', not her parents. Giving her the choice/wider information of different religions, is far better than indoctrination by parents.

I think she decides 'her religion', not her parents. Giving her the choice/wider information of different religions, is far better than indoctrination by parents.

it's still a pretty crappy and un-Christian thing to do to encourage a child to blatantly disobey her parents.

it's still a pretty crappy and un-Christian thing to do to encourage a child to blatantly disobey her parents.

I'm afraid I don't consider eating bacon a huge offence. And if the parents do, then she just won't be eating it at her house.

She may well have been indoctrinated into Christianity by RO and his family, I do not know. But, frankly, I'd support anyone freeing themselves from unnecessary religious dogma. Hopefully she won't be picking up any more from RO.

I'm afraid I don't consider eating bacon a huge offence. And if the parents do, then she just won't be eating it at her house.

my kids know they better obey me whether they are in my house or not. Besides , weren't you one of the moral relativists? if so, how can you even say whether bacon eating is a huge offense or not......I mean are you forcing your morality on them?

I think she decides 'her religion', not her parents. Giving her the choice/wider information of different religions, is far better than indoctrination by parents.

How about indoctrination by other parenst, through their child? I think that is entirely more distasteful. If I had children and they came back from another family's house telling me how they'd been converted, I would be furious. That sort of education belongs in the home.

my kids know they better obey me whether they are in my house or not. Besides , weren't you one of the moral relativists? if so, how can you even say whether bacon eating is a huge offense or not......I mean are you forcing your morality on them?

Exactly. Is it to be encouraged that children should break all their family's rules when they are outside the family home?

No wonder you Amerikans have such trouble with your kids.

Exactly. Is it to be encouraged that children should break all their family's rules when they are outside the family home?

No wonder you Amerikans have such trouble with your kids.

I don't have any trouble with my kids, mostly I have trouble with other people's former children.........if you catch me.

Orphans?

Adults i'm guessing

I don't have any trouble with my kids, mostly I have trouble with other people's former children.........if you catch me.

Orphans?

my kids know they better obey me whether they are in my house or not. Besides , weren't you one of the moral relativists? if so, how can you even say whether bacon eating is a huge offense or not......I mean are you forcing your morality on them?

Oh no, I'm not forcing my morality on anyone. The parents can decide whether they want to eat bacon or not. They are the ones forcing their morality on the child.

How about indoctrination by other parenst, through their child? I think that is entirely more distasteful. If I had children and they came back from another family's house telling me how they'd been converted, I would be furious. That sort of education belongs in the home.

We've not got enough evidence to say who's been indoctrinating who, to be honest.

And you would be furious that another adult chose to broaden your childs knowledge of religions and as a result your child decided to change their views based on that? If indoctrination/pressuring had been involved, sure that would be unacceptable, but if the parent was purely trying to be educational I can see nothing wrong with it.

Exactly. Is it to be encouraged that children should break all their family's rules when they are outside the family home?

I did not say they should break all rules. They can choose to, but that would probably be a bad idea, most rules are there for a good reason. Others probably don't seem to have much reason behind them to other people.

Adults i'm guessing

Ah. I am unfamiliar with this idiom.

Smunkeeville, are you Muslim?

Ah. I am unfamiliar with this idiom.

Smunkeeville, are you Muslim?

it's not an idiom that most people are familiar with.

and no, I am a Christian.

To make any kind of value statement on another person's morality is being judgmental of that morality. To say that you don't think eating bacon is "that big of a deal" is to invalidate their moral reasoning.

Yes, I don't agree with their reason, but I accept that's what they believe and they do it. That's fine. I'm not sure how this links in to them forcing their morality on the child.

Oh no, I'm not forcing my morality on anyone. The parents can decide whether they want to eat bacon or not. They are the ones forcing their morality on the child.
To make any kind of value statement on another person's morality is being judgmental of that morality. To say that you don't think eating bacon is "that big of a deal" is to invalidate their moral reasoning.

And you would be furious that another adult chose to broaden your childs knowledge of religions and as a result your child decided to change their views based on that? It's not something that is up for discussion in another household. Neither would I be appreciative of some other parent deciding to give my child lessons in sex education, or drug education and so forth. The job of other parents is simply to monitor my children while they are in another home. They are not given the power to begin educating my children in relgious or other matters. That is entirely crossing the line.

If indoctrination/pressuring had been involved, sure that would be unacceptable, but if the parent was purely trying to be educational I can see nothing wrong with it. Yet I do. And that is all that matters if it if my children.



I did not say they should break all rules. They can choose to, but that would probably be a bad idea, most rules are there for a good reason. Others probably don't seem to have much reason behind them to other people. I do not care what other people think about the rules I may one day set for my children. If what this man and his daughter did to another man's child ever happened to one of my children, I would never again let my child over to that house.

It's not something that is up for discussion in another household. Neither would I be appreciative of some other parent deciding to give my child lessons in sex education, or drug education and so forth. The job of other parents is simply to monitor my children while they are in another home. They are not given the power to begin educating my children in relgious or other matters. That is entirely crossing the line.

Yet I do. And that is all that matters if it if my children.

Okay. I would prefer my children to be inquisitive and open to discussion with friends' families. Perhaps to say the parents 'educating' the child is a bit strong.

(Side note: I am not a parent, I suspect attitudes may change as a result of having your own children)

I do not care what other people think about the rules I may one day set for my children. If what this man and his daughter did to another man's child ever happened to one of my children, I would never again let my child over to that house.

I'm not sure we can say RO actually had any involvement with it. He only said his daughter converted her, not whether he helped/encouraged or what.

Clearly, if he actively helped convert the friend, then that is unacceptable. If the girls were just discussing by themselves and the friend decided to convert, then 1) it was probably quite impulsive and she may not have been very serious about it, and 2) I have no problem with it, it's not likely the parents are converting their daughter's friend. But, we don't have evidence.

In Spain, it doesn't appear that we have a problem with children who can not behave, or with parents who are too busy or too important to raise their children properly. So perhaps all this anger directed at parents and children in your society should also be directed in part at yourselves? Parents and childrens are a part of your society, and surely they do not live in isolation. What other cultural influences are causing your children to behave like little monsters, and your parents to behave like helpless infants?

Really? My housemate at the moment is Spanish, and he's got a 1-year old with his ex-girlfriend. I've seen a lot of horrible kids in my time, but this brat really takes the cake. And I can't even blame her, With a father that irresponsible, inconsiderate and plain rude it's no big surprise really...

You live in Spain? No? Does your roomate? No? Then quiet.

Ah glad to see that the spanish are a polite people too ;)

You live in Spain? No? Does your roomate? No? Then quiet.

Oh, right. So the moment the Spanish leave their country, they automatically lose their brilliant, amazing parenting abilities? :rolleyes:
Think about what you're saying befor you click on submit.

Really? My housemate at the moment is Spanish, and he's got a 1-year old with his ex-girlfriend. I've seen a lot of horrible kids in my time, but this brat really takes the cake. And I can't even blame her, With a father that irresponsible, inconsiderate and plain rude it's no big surprise really...

You live in Spain? No? Does your roomate? No? Then quiet.

Perhaps it is when they choose to live with a shrew.

Child rearing is a community based event. Outside your own community, the supports and norms are going to be different. Hence my commentary on the childless in Amerika perhaps needing to wonder if they themselves, and their lifestyles, are also a part of the problem.

You might want to be careful with the namecalling.
My housemate left Spain with both his then-girlfriend and his daughter a little over 6 months ago. The kid is a year old. It's not society that has had all that much influence on the kid so far.

When it is deserved. When speaking to Amerikans, you have to moderate your speech and tone to suit their intellectual capacity.

Ah and a tolerant people as well. Your bigoted opinions are an asset to your country for sure :rolleyes:

Not to mention that Cabra is German and in Ireland

Oh, right. So the moment the Spanish leave their country, they automatically lose their brilliant, amazing parenting abilities? :rolleyes:
Think about what you're saying befor you click on submit.

Perhaps it is when they choose to live with a shrew.

Child rearing is a community based event. Outside your own community, the supports and norms are going to be different. Hence my commentary on the childless in Amerika perhaps needing to wonder if they themselves, and their lifestyles, are also a part of the problem.

Ah glad to see that the spanish are a polite people too ;)

When it is deserved. When speaking to Amerikans (or Irish it seems), you have to moderate your speech and tone to suit their intellectual capacity.

When it is deserved. When speaking to Amerikans (or Irish it seems), you have to moderate your speech and tone to suit their intellectual capacity.

I'm German, hon. And so far, you've been the one with the ad hominems and the attacks on people rather than arguments. Not exactly what people anywhere would call polite.

Perhaps it is when they choose to live with a shrew.

Child rearing is a community based event. Outside your own community, the supports and norms are going to be different. Hence my commentary on the childless in Amerika perhaps needing to wonder if they themselves, and their lifestyles, are also a part of the problem.

I'm sorry, but are you telling me that my reproductive choices affect how others raise their children? My husband has dedicated much of his adult life supporting and helping special need children. At the moment, he's doing respite care for his severely autistic nephew, who's so upset when I'm around him that he's attempted to hurt me. Despite this, Redwulf loves Bobby and gives him all the care he needs, because he truly doesn't understand the consequences of his actions. So how, exactly, is our childless lifestyle 'part of the problem'?

Clearly, if he actively helped convert the friend, then that is unacceptable. If the girls were just discussing by themselves and the friend decided to convert, then 1) it was probably quite impulsive and she may not have been very serious about it, and 2) I have no problem with it, it's not likely the parents are converting their daughter's friend. But, we don't have evidence.

even converting to another religion (from Islam to Christianity) she is still expected to obey her parents, and if they say "don't eat bacon" then she should not eat bacon, having an adult who claims to be a Christian say "oh, you can ignore that now because your parents are stupid so you don't have to obey" is pretty bad.

There, now we can be assured that one can not judge an entire people based on the interactions with one person. Most Germans I've met have been fairly likeable. Here we have an exception. We Spanish tend to raise our children well. The man living with her seems that he has not. Yet she wished to comment on all Spanish as though she has any other experience than this one person. Were I to do the same I am sure she would be shrieking about it.

I seem to remember this quote doing the exact same thing:

When it is deserved. When speaking to Amerikans (or Irish it seems), you have to moderate your speech and tone to suit their intellectual capacity.

Ah and a tolerant people as well. Your bigoted opinions are an asset to your country for sure :rolleyes:

Not to mention that Cabra is German and in Ireland

There, now we can be assured that one can not judge an entire people based on the interactions with one person. Most Germans I've met have been fairly likeable. Here we have an exception. We Spanish tend to raise our children well. The man living with her seems that he has not. Yet she wished to comment on all Spanish as though she has any other experience than this one person. Were I to do the same I am sure she would be shrieking about it.

I'm sorry, but are you telling me that my reproductive choices affect how others raise their children? My husband has dedicated much of his adult life supporting and helping special need children. At the moment, he's doing respite care for his severely autistic nephew, who's so upset when I'm around him that he's attempted to hurt me. Despite this, Redwulf loves Bobby and gives him all the care he needs, because he truly doesn't understand the consequences of his actions. So how, exactly, is our childless lifestyle 'part of the problem'?

You do not understand. Even those who do not have children, either have not had them yet, or do not want them or already raised them, still have an impact on the way the society is, and what is important within that society. So if your society is overwhelmingly materialistic, and the children are absorbing this, then yes, whether you have children or not, if you are materialistic and uphold these social norms, you are contributing to the way children are raised.

Child rearing is a community based event.

If child-rearing is a community event, why are you so angered by the thought of someone who is not a parent participating in educating a child?

There, now we can be assured that one can not judge an entire people based on the interactions with one person. Most Germans I've met have been fairly likeable. Here we have an exception. We Spanish tend to raise our children well. The man living with her seems that he has not. Yet she wished to comment on all Spanish as though she has any other experience than this one person. Were I to do the same I am sure she would be shrieking about it.

No. I simply refuted your statement that there are no problems with bad parenting in Spain. I quoted and example to make it clear that in this case, as in all cases, there are no absolutes.
And thank you again for remaining so utterly polite and amiable...

I'm German, hon. And so far, you've been the one with the ad hominems and the attacks on people rather than arguments. Not exactly what people anywhere would call polite.

Your shrill tone from the onset merely triggered this response. And perhaps you need to find another person to live with, as much as you seem to hate this man.

There, now we can be assured that one can not judge an entire people based on the interactions with one person. Most Germans I've met have been fairly likeable. Here we have an exception. We Spanish tend to raise our children well. The man living with her seems that he has not. Yet she wished to comment on all Spanish as though she has any other experience than this one person. Were I to do the same I am sure she would be shrieking about it.

Cabra didn't say anything about "all Spanish". She simply contested your over-generalization by pointing out that some Spanish children are not well-behaved and some Spanish parents are not good parents..

Your shrill tone from the onset merely triggered this response. And perhaps you need to find another person to live with, as much as you seem to hate this man.

I am moving out next week, as I don't feel safe in this house any more after a couple of incidents.
And how was I shrill, pray?

I seem to remember this quote doing the exact same thing:

Except I have met many Amerikans and Irish.

Except I have met many Amerikans and Irish.

Did you meet a significant number of them? You realise there are several hundred million? I doubt you've met enough to make an informed statement such as you're pretending to.

No. I simply refuted your statement that there are no problems with bad parenting in Spain. I quoted and example to make it clear that in this case, as in all cases, there are no absolutes.
And thank you again for remaining so utterly polite and amiable...

I never said there were no problems with bad parenting in Spain. I said that we do not seem to have this widespread problem with horribly behaved children that the Amerikans in this very thread are so loudly complaining about. I believe the Smunkeeville lives in the USA, and seems to be raising her children just fine, so very obviously not all Amerikan children are horrible.

You refuted a statement that was never made. I wish you luck in your future replies. I also enjoy how your rude tone continues as you lecture me on mine.

If child-rearing is a community event, why are you so angered by the thought of someone who is not a parent participating in educating a child?

There is a difference in bringing a child into your home and inciting that child to disobey his or her parents, and simply leading by example in your every day interactions with the child.

I hardly need meet every last Amerikan alive, or even a certain percentage of them to be able to make judgments on their culture, considering how aggressively that culture is marketed to the four corners of the earth. I am from Ibiza, where we have been subjected to entirely too many Amerikan tourists over the years. Perhaps the USA is only allowing the most annoying and rude of their citizens travel, but I tend to doubt it. I have in my lifetime met a very large cross section of Amerikans. Some are fine people, but most tend to be ignorant, crass, and essentially worthless.

You do understand that, for obvious reasons, the people who can afford to travel to Spain can't be said to be a good representative sample of their overall population? Unless you're making these grandiose blanket claims about only those Americans who are able to afford such trips and tend to travel to the specific area in which you live?

Did you meet a significant number of them? You realise there are several hundred million? I doubt you've met enough to make an informed statement such as you're pretending to.

I hardly need meet every last Amerikan alive, or even a certain percentage of them to be able to make judgments on their culture, considering how aggressively that culture is marketed to the four corners of the earth. I am from Ibiza, where we have been subjected to entirely too many Amerikan tourists over the years. Perhaps the USA is only allowing the most annoying and rude of their citizens travel, but I tend to doubt it. I have in my lifetime met a very large cross section of Amerikans. Some are fine people, but most tend to be ignorant, crass, and essentially worthless.

I am moving out next week, as I don't feel safe in this house any more after a couple of incidents.
And how was I shrill, pray?

I hope for you to have much better luck in your new home. Now, I must catch a flight, que le vaya bien my sweet.

even converting to another religion (from Islam to Christianity) she is still expected to obey her parents, and if they say "don't eat bacon" then she should not eat bacon, having an adult who claims to be a Christian say "oh, you can ignore that now because your parents are stupid so you don't have to obey" is pretty bad.

For starters, I wouldn't ever suggest calling someone else's parents 'stupid' based on a belief they have. Even if I don't agree with the belief, that does not make it 'stupid'. Also, the parents should not be deliberately going against this girl's parents' beliefs, like serving bacon and forcing her to eat it or go hungry. I have no evidence to say they did this, they may have served it not realising her parents would not approve, and the girl ate it without realising or wanting to try it.

And I dislike this attitude of unconditionally accepting your parents beliefs/rules. Now, don't jump to extremes of saying I'm advocating completely ignoring parents' rules, I'm not. I think children should consider what the rule is there for and whether they agree with it or not. Clearly at times, if they break a rule, the parents will punish her, but I do not think going against your parents beliefs is something that should be punished if you've properly considered it and not be coerced into it be others.

EDIT: I'm going to bed now, will post again tomorrow if there's more to be discussed :)

I hope for you to have much better luck in your new home. Now, I must catch a flight, que le vaya bien my sweet.

Did anyone else feel like he was being rude to Cabra for no reason?

Did anyone else feel like he was being rude to Cabra for no reason?

Yup although I get the feeling his reason was that she had dared to criticise his beloved Spain

Except I have met many Amerikans and Irish.

In other words, "I can act like a bigot if I feel like it, and I'm perfectly ok with hypocritically berating others for instances in which I decide that they are being bigotted."

It's perfectly fine to hate kids. Why do you think I support abortion?

WARNING: Weasel doesn't like uppity, pompous newcomers who talk shit about nice people like Cabra who return despite threatening to leave because of rude, ill-mannered individuals like Astronomicon. She thinks if anything Astro should take a nice long look at the shit he's posted and issue a nice apology...

You live in Spain? No? Does your roomate? No? Then quiet.

Should it matter if someone has lived in Spain? She didn't make a generalisation, as it was pointed out already. She refuted your generalisation with a statement that didn't deserve this rude response of yours. You've got a lot to learn about playing nice if you're going to make it here on NSG.

Child rearing is a community based event. Outside your own community, the supports and norms are going to be different. Hence my commentary on the childless in Amerika perhaps needing to wonder if they themselves, and their lifestyles, are also a part of the problem.

How does my life style affect others? If I am not interacting with them, them being people who have been "blessed" with a child or two, why should my lifestyle matter? Child rearing may have once been a community effort when women were expected to pop-out a child in between ironing a man's socks and making his dinner.

Now that families are considerably smaller (yes, we know the Duggars are the bloody exception with 17 and counting), why does it need to be a community based event?

My lifestyle is not part of the problem; ignorance and the refusal of people to accept that some adults and older people don't want children around in environments unsuited to meet the needs of children.

When it is deserved. When speaking to Amerikans (or Irish it seems), you have to moderate your speech and tone to suit their intellectual capacity.

I guess we should do the same for you, since you haven't learned how to spell the name of the country you insist on insulting.

And no, I'm not an American; I just think it's incredibly asinine to misspell the name of a country when attempting to insult a person from it when not everyone is the same, though they may seem to act the same. That, however could be applied to any group of people, so...

There, now we can be assured that one can not judge an entire people based on the interactions with one person. Most Germans I've met have been fairly likeable. Here we have an exception. We Spanish tend to raise our children well. The man living with her seems that he has not. Yet she wished to comment on all Spanish as though she has any other experience than this one person. Were I to do the same I am sure she would be shrieking about it.

Oh, you mean you haven't? :rolleyes: Obviously you haven't re-read the bullshit you've been espousing or you'd realise the error of your late statement.

You do not understand. Even those who do not have children, either have not had them yet, or do not want them or already raised them, still have an impact on the way the society is, and what is important within that society. So if your society is overwhelmingly materialistic, and the children are absorbing this, then yes, whether you have children or not, if you are materialistic and uphold these social norms, you are contributing to the way children are raised.

Society does NOT revolve around children.

Society has to be tailored to meet the needs of everyone and with more and more of the population averaging on the 37+ side, we shouldn't have to censor everything because a child might be exposed to something "too early".

Just because society is a certain way doesn't mean that all members will be like that. As long as people have free will and think for themselves, the nature of society will not turn all people into mindless drones who think and act the same way.

The parents are the final level of influence for their children and if they are unable to teach their children values that make the children viable, mature members of society, it is not the fault of my life-style because I am not the one who was contributing.

The lifestyles of those on TV have a greater influence. The shallow materialism comes out of a small aspect of society. Parents have a responsibility to teach their children that this is not the way that most people live and that is it not how most people expect to live.

Except I have met many Amerikans and Irish.

And that would be fewer people than I have toes most like.

I never said there were no problems with bad parenting in Spain. I said that we do not seem to have this widespread problem with horribly behaved children that the Amerikans in this very thread are so loudly complaining about. I believe the Smunkeeville lives in the USA, and seems to be raising her children just fine, so very obviously not all Amerikan children are horrible.

As a n00b, you obviously don't recognise that many of us are NOT *gasp* American. Personally, I'm laughing my ass off at your blatant naivete.

I like your faith... you BELIEVE that Smunk lives in the USA*? How cute. You believe something. That is just adorable; how... precious. Next you'll believe in little pixies and magic leprechauns.

* Smunk, we know you're American; I just thrive off being a jackass.

You refuted a statement that was never made. I wish you luck in your future replies. I also enjoy how your rude tone continues as you lecture me on mine.

I enjoy how you keep being rude. Too bad newcomers think that it's fine to act like that. See how far it gets you.

I hardly need meet every last Amerikan alive, or even a certain percentage of them to be able to make judgments on their culture, considering how aggressively that culture is marketed to the four corners of the earth. I am from Ibiza, where we have been subjected to entirely too many Amerikan tourists over the years. Perhaps the USA is only allowing the most annoying and rude of their citizens travel, but I tend to doubt it. I have in my lifetime met a very large cross section of Amerikans. Some are fine people, but most tend to be ignorant, crass, and essentially worthless.

It seems that Spain lets it ruder citizens post to international forums. See, it works two ways here, hun.

Just because they're American, they may be worthless? It seems you've picked the wrong forum to come to because there are Americans here and while some may be rude and ignorant, not all are like that. There are many Spanish who I'm quite sure fit your description more than adequately. In fact... pick any nationality and that description could work because ignorance, crass and worthlessness does not discriminate.

I realise you say "some" are decent but that doesn't excuse the need for you to write insipid shit. It's not a magic "I can discriminate freely card as long as I pretend to say one nice thing" tool.

I think you'll find NSG to be a very frigid place unless you start playing nice.

If being immature means being a child, then certainly many adults could be considered children if we use your wording.

There are certain crossroads in life that we reach at one time or another and we must make a choice.

That wasn't my wording-- it's one parroted over and over by others. And yes, that is the point I was making above, isn't it?

I think it's much easier if the one screaming child takes a sleeping pill than having the rest of the passengars on the plane take one.

If you are the one who is disturbed, and you have no problem with medication, then you should take the medication.

I for one don't think it's appropriate to tell people to drug their kids for your convenience.

What parent takes psychology courses? It's common sense. It would half to be, or the human species would not still be around.

It sounds to me like what you are describing is an extension of the selfishness and wontan consumerism that seems to pervade Amerikan society. Is it any wonder the kids are turning out as mini versions of their materialistic parents?

It's wanton. Wonton is a dumpling in soup, and American is the proper spelling of the word unless you intend to be provocative -- in which case, that's pretty immature.

Then again given the entire tenor of your posts, it's a no-brainer.

I think she decides 'her religion', not her parents. Giving her the choice/wider information of different religions, is far better than indoctrination by parents.

So indoctrination by a stranger is appropriate? Sheesh.

There, now we can be assured that one can not judge an entire people based on the interactions with one person. Most Germans I've met have been fairly likeable. Here we have an exception. We Spanish tend to raise our children well. The man living with her seems that he has not. Yet she wished to comment on all Spanish as though she has any other experience than this one person. Were I to do the same I am sure she would be shrieking about it.

I'm glad that you're not the sole example of Spaniards I have met.
And I have severe doubts as to your being in Spain, so quiet yourself.

It's wanton. Wonton is a dumpling in soup, and American is the proper spelling of the word unless you intend to be provocative -- in which case, that's pretty immature.

Then again given the entire tenor of your posts, it's a no-brainer.

QFT. And it's 'it would have to be,' not 'it would half to be.' Yes, the Grammar Bitch strikes again.

Mmmm... wontons. I'm all hungry now, thanks!

I hardly need meet every last Amerikan alive, or even a certain percentage of them to be able to make judgments on their culture, considering how aggressively that culture is marketed to the four corners of the earth. I am from Ibiza, where we have been subjected to entirely too many Amerikan tourists over the years. Perhaps the USA is only allowing the most annoying and rude of their citizens travel, but I tend to doubt it. I have in my lifetime met a very large cross section of Amerikans. Some are fine people, but most tend to be ignorant, crass, and essentially worthless.

And now, you are warned for trolling.

It's wanton. Wonton is a dumpling in soup, and American is the proper spelling of the word unless you intend to be provocative -- in which case, that's pretty immature.
Mmmmm... wonton soup. I want some! Damn you for making me crave food I can't get! :)

They don't have Chinese takeout in Toronto?...


Come visit us down here. I swear we can set you up with some. :)

They don't have Chinese takeout in Toronto?...


Come visit us down here. I swear we can set you up with some. :)

They do. It's just that most are closed unless I lived in Chinatown but I'm not close enough for delivery... *le sigh*

They do. It's just that most are closed unless I lived in Chinatown but I'm not close enough for delivery... *le sigh*

*checks time*

Yeah, it is a little late. I'm spoiled -- there's a few less than ten minutes away and open half an hour more (till 11 or later on a Friday night).

Sorry... :(

I'm not fond of children. Don't have kids and never wanted them, and I positively despise toddlers and teenagers. Sometimes the 'tweens are okay, but if it's not in elementary school I have a general distaste for them. If I'm surrounded by family units with squawking, shrieking, blathering toddlers, I usually light out for a different locale with my hackles up.

I also despise how cruel children are to each other (reference the thread about the bullies in Australia).

That being said...I'm actually pro-child because I actively fight against child molestation and incest. I believe that you shouldn't bring a child into the world unless you're ready to sacrifice everything for them, and whenever I encounter a child socially I talk to them like I would to anyone else. And yes, they do understand, and appreciate. I've had several adult friends who express their gratitude to me because I didn't talk down to their children.

Sure, I get my back up when there's a shrieking toddler near me, but just let that same kid get grabbed by a kidnapper or let their parents beat the snot out of them in front of me, and you BET I'll stand up for that kid. And I have.

*checks time*

Yeah, it is a little late. I'm spoiled -- there's a few less than ten minutes away and open half an hour more (till 11 or later on a Friday night).

Sorry... :(

Don't be sorry. :)

So indoctrination by a stranger is appropriate? Sheesh.

That's not what I said, and both you and Smunkee have made out that I did for some reason. I explained in my posts to her (and to the 'Spanish' dude) what I meant.