NationStates Jolt Archive

I am just wondering. A lot of children annoy me, but I really think it's because of their personalities rather than the fact they are kids.

However, I know a lot of people who hate kids hands down without giving them a chance. If they were to do this with any other people group, it would be called out as biggoted. Think about it, any race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or lifestyle choice if you say "I hate <blank>" most people would be offended. Most people in fact would say "You are overgeneralizing" at the very least.

The statement "I hate kids" bothers me even a bit more because we all at some point were one. Surely you remember how it hurt to have a condescending adult be rude to you just because you were a child.





Why is it okay to hate kids?

Why is it okay to hate kids?

Because they can't fight back?

Why is it okay to hate kids?
Easy: it's not.

Think about your own examples. What's the public reaction if a black adult is the victim of a violent crime? Now, compare that to the reaction if a child is the victim of a violent crime. What's the typical public perception of a person who would hit another adult, compared to the public perception of a person who hits a child?

The whole reason people joke about "hating" children, and the whole reason people laugh about it, is because it's such a joke. Everybody assumes that, deep down, we all like kids and want to protect them. "Hating" children doesn't mean the same thing as hating black people, because most people find it impossible to believe that somebody would REALLY hate children...but it's perfectly believable that somebody genuinely hates black people.

Myself, I face routine harassment and pressure simply because I don't personally want to make babies. I don't even say I hate children, I just admit that I don't want to make babies. And that's UNACCEPTABLE. Heck, there are people who tell me that the Western World will collapse because of my personal preference to not make babies.

The fact that I'm not interested in babysitting earns me questions about what my problem is, and why I'm so "hostile" to children. The fact that I don't want to hold the baby makes people whisper behind my back. The fact that I'm simply indifferent to children makes my relatives speculate about how I must have been abused as a child (wrong) or how I must be a closet lesbian (wrong, and irrelevant) or how I've just always been a bit weird (true, but also beside the point).

Frankly, I've found that it's uniquely unaccepted to dislike children or the behavior of children.

-snip-

This is true (you really must stop reading my mind, you might not like what you find ;)). There's nothing like enduring the endless questions of "whyyyyy?" whenever you state that you don't want children and don't like having them around.

What makes you think that it really is considered "ok" to hate children? That people don't do anything about it? Or is it that the idea of someone truly hating children just completely alien to your mind as a mother of two?

It is ok to hate kids, just like it is ok to hate any religion, or race. Its our right. It may not be socially accepted but you can hate anyone you want cause we are american and thats what we are, haters.

Because they are annoying and usually have poor hygiene.

"Oh one of these days you'll change your mind". Kids, nothing useful about them. They're generally ill mannered, loud, obnoxious, and smell funny.

Couple friends of mine just found themselves first time fathers, gods I'm glad I don't have to endure the screaming and various horrifying fluids the little monsters expel.

Easy: it's not.

Think about your own examples. What's the public reaction if a black adult is the victim of a violent crime? Now, compare that to the reaction if a child is the victim of a violent crime. What's the typical public perception of a person who would hit another adult, compared to the public perception of a person who hits a child?

The whole reason people joke about "hating" children, and the whole reason people laugh about it, is because it's such a joke. Everybody assumes that, deep down, we all like kids and want to protect them. "Hating" children doesn't mean the same thing as hating black people, because most people find it impossible to believe that somebody would REALLY hate children...but it's perfectly believable that somebody genuinely hates black people.
I have seen entire flame filled threads deleted around here started because people hate kids, I didn't seem much dissent on the kid hating either. Most people don't seem to be joking when they say they hate kids. Maybe my joking meter is off.



Myself, I face routine harassment and pressure simply because I don't personally want to make babies. I don't even say I hate children, I just admit that I don't want to make babies. And that's UNACCEPTABLE. Heck, there are people who tell me that the Western World will collapse because of my personal preference to not make babies.

The fact that I'm not interested in babysitting earns me questions about what my problem is, and why I'm so "hostile" to children. The fact that I don't want to hold the baby makes people whisper behind my back. The fact that I'm simply indifferent to children makes my relatives speculate about how I must have been abused as a child (wrong) or how I must be a closet lesbian (wrong, and irrelevant) or how I've just always been a bit weird (true, but also beside the point).

Frankly, I've found that it's uniquely unaccepted to dislike children or the behavior of children.
That sucks, but it has nothing to do with my topic.

Because they are annoying and usually have poor hygiene.

I could say the same thing about the homeless. Can I hate them now?

I have seen entire flame filled threads deleted around here started because people hate kids, I didn't seem much dissent on the kid hating either. Most people don't seem to be joking when they say they hate kids. Maybe my joking meter is off.

I'm sure there are some people who genuinely hate kids. If they all get together and agree with one another, that's the kind of thread you get. Same as if a crowd of racists get together and chat about how they hate blacks.

Your thread, as I understood it, was about why it is supposedly ACCEPTABLE to hate kids. My point is, it's not, on the whole. Generally speaking, hatred of children is LESS accepted than, say, hatred of atheists, or blacks, or homosexuals.


That sucks, but it has nothing to do with my topic.
Sure it does. Far from it being acceptable to hate children, I have found it is unacceptable to even be indifferent to children, while it is perfectly acceptable to be indifferent to adults.

I have seen entire flame filled threads deleted around here started because people hate kids, I didn't seem much dissent on the kid hating either. Most people don't seem to be joking when they say they hate kids. Maybe my joking meter is off.

No, but considering the majority on this board are people who don't want kids for various reasons, it's not representative of the world outside NSG.


That sucks, but it has nothing to do with my topic.

But it does. Experiences like that are the norm when people assert that they don't want/don't like/whatever children. It goes against your query about how it's somehow considered socially acceptable to hate kids.

I could say the same thing about the homeless. Can I hate them now?

Not until they get school buses.

Having been out in the world with my children (and having been a child myself at one point) most adults who are not parents treat them like second class citizens, even some parents treat them like they are little more than pets, why is this okay?


That has nothing to do with being expected to like children, or respect children, it has to do with the cultural assumption that everyone is supposed to reproduce.

I've seen some parents who treat their pets much better than their kids.

I am just wondering. A lot of children annoy me, but I really think it's because of their personalities rather than the fact they are kids.

However, I know a lot of people who hate kids hands down without giving them a chance. If they were to do this with any other people group, it would be called out as biggoted. Think about it, any race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or lifestyle choice if you say "I hate <blank>" most people would be offended. Most people in fact would say "You are overgeneralizing" at the very least.

The statement "I hate kids" bothers me even a bit more because we all at some point were one. Surely you remember how it hurt to have a condescending adult be rude to you just because you were a child.


Why is it okay to hate kids?

I wouldn't say it's 'okay' to hate kids, any more so than it's 'okay' to hate other groups. I wouldn't say it's socially acceptable to do so. People do say they find children annoying for various reasons, but I don't think it's comparable to 'hate'.

No, but considering the majority on this board are people who don't want kids for various reasons, it's not representative of the world outside NSG.
Having been out in the world with my children (and having been a child myself at one point) most adults who are not parents treat them like second class citizens, even some parents treat them like they are little more than pets, why is this okay?

But it does. Experiences like that are the norm when people assert that they don't want/don't like/whatever children. It goes against your query about how it's somehow considered socially acceptable to hate kids.
That has nothing to do with being expected to like children, or respect children, it has to do with the cultural assumption that everyone is supposed to reproduce.

Having been out in the world with my children (and having been a child myself at one point) most adults who are not parents treat them like second class citizens, even some parents treat them like they are little more than pets, why is this okay?


That has nothing to do with being expected to like children, or respect children, it has to do with the cultural assumption that everyone is supposed to reproduce.

Well, legally, they are second class citizens. They are not old enough to make important decisions for themselves and are under the guidance of adults.

I think the reason there is so much "hatred" for children is due to our society being overrun with self centered, judgemental adults. I get tired of hoping and praying that my 2 year old wont talk too loudly in the grocery store as I'm trying to bypass all the asshats who are blocking the aisle or having a way too private conversation on their cell phone. Wow, I sure hope my two year old doesnt bother them. My two year old also doesnt curse at a hard working waitress who has had a long day just because his food isnt exactly the way he wanted. There is a complete lack of patience for children but I would love to know why these adults dont look at their own inability to control themselves first.

Having been out in the world with my children (and having been a child myself at one point) most adults who are not parents treat them like second class citizens,

To be fair...they ARE second class citizens. Legally speaking. Children do not have rights equal to those of adult citizens. Children are disenfranchised.


even some parents treat them like they are little more than pets, why is this okay?

I think that's a totally different issue, personally.

The dislike that a non-parent may feel for children is like how a person who doesn't own dogs might not like dogs. It kind of makes sense that a person who doesn't choose to have a dog might not like dogs, right? I mean, that would be a good reason to not have one.

But if a person has chosen to not only make a baby but also keep it and rear it to adulthood, yet they don't like kids (or don't like their own kid), I find that significantly more fucked up. That's like buying a puppy knowing that you don't really want it, and then chaining it in the yard and neglecting it because you hate dogs.


That has nothing to do with being expected to like children, or respect children, it has to do with the cultural assumption that everyone is supposed to reproduce.
Erm, you can't seperate them!!

Everybody is supposed to want to have children. Not just MAKE BABIES, but HAVE CHILDREN. You're supposed to want to be a parent at some point. It's like the assumption that you're supposed to want to get married. Never mind that a whole lot of people aren't good parents (just like a lot of people don't make good spouses), we're all expected to follow that path in life.

Gee, small wonder that some people get resentful! Small wonder that people have children for shitty reasons and then end up resenting the children that they never wanted to have in the first place!

Having been out in the world with my children (and having been a child myself at one point) most adults who are not parents treat them like second class citizens, even some parents treat them like they are little more than pets, why is this okay?

You're going to have to define "second-class citizens." They're children, they're going to have to be watched over and restricted in what they can or can't do. As to treating them like pets, do you really think that the majority of people are looking at the woman with their kid in a leash and harness are thinking "good, keep the little brat under wraps?" No, they're probably quietly shaking their head in disdain, but not saying anything about it because getting involved in someone's parenting is considered taboo.

That has nothing to do with being expected to like children, or respect children, it has to do with the cultural assumption that everyone is supposed to reproduce.

And the two aren't linked together?

They're very irrational, unlike most other adults. However, I like rational kids.

Again, it isn't. There's a difference between acceptance and not doing anything about it. Getting involved in someone else's parenting is considered taboo.

That's a good point, too.

One of the major reasons I don't have kids is because I don't want to parent. So why would I go out of my way to parent kids that aren't even mine? If I don't feel ready/willing/able to parent my own kids, how can I justify trying to interfere with somebody else's parenting of their kids?

There's obviously a certain limit, of course. Children are still human, and I will interfere if I feel that they are in direct danger, the same way I would with any other human.

Again, it isn't. There's a difference between acceptance and not doing anything about it. Getting involved in someone else's parenting is considered taboo.
explain me this though, why is it okay for an adult to complain loudly about the "goddamn crotch droppings" at the theater and he is met with the manager apologizing but if I were to bitch about the "goddamn niggers" at my movie the manager would probably tell me to leave?

Having been out in the world with my children (and having been a child myself at one point) most adults who are not parents treat them like second class citizens, even some parents treat them like they are little more than pets, why is this okay?


I'm not sure what you mean by this -- as a parent myself, and as a woman with more friends who have chosen not to have kids than who chose to have them, I really can't think of a place where I usually take my children where they are treated like second class citizens. Even when I take my kids to places where kids 'don't usually go' -- if anything, I get adults who approach them and say how great it is to see kids so interested in whatever it is we're doing.

explain me this though, why is it okay for an adult to complain loudly about the "goddamn crotch droppings" at the theater and he is met with the manager apologizing but if I were to bitch about the "goddamn niggers" at my movie the manager would probably tell me to leave?

Gah, seems I was too slow, please re-read the edited post first, it might answer your question.

If not, then like Dundee-Fienn stated, you can complain about anyone when their behavior is out of line. You also have to consider it's the manager's job to make sure you come back, if that means ejecting unruly children, then that's what they'll do.

my children were quiet, and being well behaved during the advertisements before the movie, they were not talking they were just watching the advertisements, and the manager asked us to leave, because the man in front of us didn't want to watch the movie with children.
Congrats, you have encountered lousy management.

I was once asked to leave because an elderly patron didn't feel that I should be allowed to view the movie in question (I was 14, seeing a PG-13 movie). Because this old lady raised a big stink, and because the manager was a jerk, I was asked to leave.

Is it because of the actions of the children. You can complain about people regardless of age if there behaviour is unacceptable in a theatre. I doubt anyone complains about quiet children in that scenario

Or is it the specific terms used you are referring to? Sorry if i've misunderstood

my children were quiet, and being well behaved during the advertisements before the movie, they were not talking they were just watching the advertisements, and the manager asked us to leave, because the man in front of us didn't want to watch the movie with children.

Congrats, you have encountered lousy management.

I was once asked to leave because an elderly patron didn't feel that I should be allowed to view the movie in question (I was 14, seeing a PG-13 movie). Because this old lady raised a big stink, and because the manager was a jerk, I was asked to leave.

And you actually left ? I would have started a riot.

my children were quiet, and being well behaved during the advertisements before the movie, they were not talking they were just watching the advertisements, and the manager asked us to leave, because the man in front of us didn't want to watch the movie with children.

And he was wrong to do so, and I'm sure quite a few people would've thought the same way, they just aren't going to go out of their way to help you.

my children were quiet, and being well behaved during the advertisements before the movie, they were not talking they were just watching the advertisements, and the manager asked us to leave, because the man in front of us didn't want to watch the movie with children.

You should have told the manager that the man was a well known atheist.

Because they are annoying and usually have poor hygiene.

They're generally ill mannered, loud, obnoxious, and smell funny.


They're very irrational, unlike most other adults.

so, Bottle, are these the hilarious joking statements you are talking about?

can I now say these about blacks, and Mexicans and be funny?

can I now say these about blacks, and Mexicans and be funny?

I told you. Not until they get their own school buses.

And you actually left ? I would have started a riot.
Meh. As a teen, I faced a lot of crap like that. I don't think young children face routine discrimination or hatred, but adolescents and teens often do. It's somewhat justified, since teens tend to cause more problems more often than adults do (in my experience working in retail and service).

so, Bottle, are these the hilarious joking statements you are talking about?

can I now say these about blacks, and Mexicans and be funny?
You can say a lot of horrible things about blacks or Mexicans, far worse than any of what you posted, and I promise you I can find plenty of people who will laugh uproariously. In fact, I promise you that for every person you find who says something mean about kids, I could probably find you ten who will say hateful, horrible, cruel things about blacks/Mexicans.

You can say a lot of horrible things about blacks or Mexicans, far worse than any of what you posted, and I promise you I can find plenty of people who will laugh uproariously. In fact, I promise you that for every person you find who says something mean about kids, I could probably find you ten who will say hateful, horrible, cruel things about blacks/Mexicans.

but when they say it about kids it's funny right? that's why you don't say anything to them, but if I were to say something like.....oh.......

Blacks are smelly and stupid and I wish I didn't ever have to see them in public.

you would probably go into Bottle-mode and decry me for being a bigot right?

I figure people ought to be able to hate whatever they feel like. Any prohibitions thereof involve Orwellian thought-crimes.

but when they say it about kids it's funny right?

Not really. Saying "kids are annoying" isn't particularly funny. It's just an opinion.


that's why you don't say anything to them, but if I were to say something like.....oh.......

Blacks are smelly and stupid and I wish I didn't ever have to see them in public.

you would probably go into Bottle-mode and decry me for being a bigot right?
If you said that I would say you're racist and ignorant, since black people are not inherently any less capable than white people of being intelligent and well-groomed.

Children, however, are demonstrably less capable of being intelligent and well-groomed when compared to adults. A typical two year old will not have the intelligence and grooming skills of a typical adult. Most adults don't poo in their pants while in public; a great many two year olds do. It is also a fact that children have poorer impulse control than adults, and are more likely to be unfamiliar with what we consider common courtesy. This is normal.

To put it another way:

It's pretty rare to see an adult having a tantrum in public, and people generally get far MORE pissed off when that happens then they do when a child has a tantrum. If a baby is crying loudly people will sometimes get annoyed, but if an adult were to be crying equally loudly the reaction would be even more immediate and more hostile. Think about being on an airplane with a crying baby. Most people just grit their teeth and take it. But if that baby were, say, a 30 year old man, do you really think those same people would sit quietly and endure?

...I have seen entire flame filled threads deleted around here started because people hate kids...

So why start another one, unless you need to find some validation and justification for your own viewpoint.

You are boring me, take your broken psyche elsewhere.

I think it's perhaps not so much kids than bad parenting that people hate. If kids are running round the supermarket being loud and obnoxious, then it's the parents fault for not keeping them under control. Of course, it's a lot easier to conclude "I hate kids", since it's them that are actually misbehaving right in front of you.

I was also going to write a paragraph about children being less capable than adults....but it's easier just to say "I agree with Bottle".

As for your theatre experience...that's just an asshole manager and an arrogant idiot sat in front of you.

So why start another one, unless you need to find some validation and justification for your own viewpoint.

You are boring me, take your broken psyche elsewhere.

:rolleyes:

So why start another one, unless you need to find some validation and justification for your own viewpoint.

You are boring me, take your broken psyche elsewhere.

Ok, now you're just baiting...

I think it's perhaps not so much kids than bad parenting that people hate. If kids are running round the supermarket being loud and obnoxious, then it's the parents fault for not keeping them under control. Of course, it's a lot easier to conclude "I hate kids", since it's them that are actually misbehaving right in front of you.


That's certainly another aspect of it. A child's misbehavior falls on the parent.

So why start another one, unless you need to find some validation and justification for your own viewpoint.

You are boring me, take your broken psyche elsewhere.
Smunk isn't that sort of person, in my experience.

I think it's more likely that we're all a bit more sensitive to slights against those who are close to us.

A parent who is nuts about their kids will be particularly upset if people say hurtful things about kids. Totally reasonable.

I'm particularly sensitive to people saying mean things about mentally disabled individuals, because one of my loved ones suffers from several mental disabilities. When somebody uses the word "retarded," it really bothers me, in ways that I don't think it bothers many other people. I think a lot of people don't even really "hear" words like that, they just register the general idea of the insult.

When a kid is throwing a tantrum in the store, sometimes folks will toss out a "damn I hate kids" without even really thinking about it or meaning it. They don't REALLY hate kids, they hate the disruption. If that kid hadn't thrown a tantrum, they wouldn't have hated it at all. If that kid had, instead, been doing something cute, those same people probably would have grinned and pointed and said, "Oh honey, isn't that just the darndest thing!"

I think it's perhaps not so much kids than bad parenting that people hate. If kids are running round the supermarket being loud and obnoxious, then it's the parents fault for not keeping them under control. Of course, it's a lot easier to conclude "I hate kids", since it's them that are actually misbehaving right in front of you.

Exactly. Now I joke about my job making me hate kids, and tourists, as I work in an amusement park. And I say I hate kids all the time but I dont ACTUALLY hate them. They just drive me up the wall and make me want to take a bat to them sometimes. It's just mostly something that annoys me and I'd rather they go away. My job has made me rather uncomfortable around little kids.

So...yeah. Thats me.

The reason i dislike children is i resent when my adult rights are subjugated to feed the Save the Children Hysteria.

Kids are just so horribly LOUD! I hated noise already as child. if someone screams I can not stand it and want to get away. So I can not-tolerate those screaming kids, can't I?

The reason i dislike children is i resent when my adult rights are subjugated to feed the Save the Children Hysteria.

eh?

The reason i dislike children is i resent when my adult rights are subjugated to feed the Save the Children Hysteria.

Why dislike the children rather than those who invoke the call of 'Won't someone think of the children'

Ok, now you're just baiting...

Ok, I do not mean to bait, but Smunkeeville features prominently in the anti-kids threads. There has to be a reason for her fishing for reasons to justify not liking kids otherwise she would not start this thread. That sort of behaviour I can live without. So I re-word my original post...


So why start another one, unless you need to find some validation and justification for your own viewpoint.

You are boring me, take your broken psyche elsewhere.

to

So why start another thread of this sort? I can't help but feel that you need to find some validation and justification for your own viewpoint and that will not be found here in this board amongst the childless teenagers. This has the makings of an insolvable problem for you and I also feel that, as you will not find resolution here, you will continue this cycle. That bores me to tears. Please find another outlet.

So why start another thread of this sort? I can't help but feel that you need to find some validation and justification for your own viewpoint and that will not be found here in this board amongst the childless teenagers. This has the makings of an insolvable problem for you and I also feel that, as you will not find resolution here, you will continue this cycle. That bores me to tears. Please find another outlet.

Did it occur to you that she might be trying to find validation and justification for the viewpoints of others? Personally, I kind of inferred that from "Why is it okay to hate kids?". Like, the viewpoints of the people who post on this forum? Like, the viewpoints of the people who will post in this thread? Yes? No?

Because they run around, screaming at the top of their lungs, making a mess, getting in the way, and if you should dare criticise the little darlings the parents will be down on you like a ton of bricks "they're only children".

What other group does this? If it were adults the police would be called. But it's children, so never mind.

And many teenagers are about as bad, but bigger with it.

Why dislike the children rather than those who invoke the call of 'Won't someone think of the children'

Any time someone says "Won't someone think of the children" I'm forced to automatically disagree with anything that person ever says. Stupidest damned argument tactic ever.

Because they run around, screaming at the top of their lungs, making a mess, getting in the way, and if you should dare criticise the little darlings the parents will be down on you like a ton of bricks "they're only children".

What other group does this? If it were adults the police would be called. But it's children, so never mind.

And many teenagers are about as bad, but bigger with it.

And there's another big part of it: when they are misbehaving many times we're just supposed to accept it because "they're just kids", which only goes so far.

people can hate who they like for all i care, but they should be prepared for me to challenge them to explain their hate. to be honest hating kids is one of the easiest to explain as long as you ignore all the awesome things about them. they're noisy, smelly, rampant, have no regard for personal privacy, consider themselve's to be centre of the universe, precocious, obnoxious, have little self control, blah, blah, blah. but of course that's not true for every kid and is never always true for any kid. but kids are far more readily identified as a group than any other 'minority' or non-empowered group because they really are entirely different to adults. there is also the element of jealousy, kids have no responsibilities, which is a freedom they will never appreciate til they lose it. i spent my entire childhood wishing i was an adult so i could be free, then i became an adult and now wish i could be a kid again for the very same reason.

I am just wondering. A lot of children annoy me, but I really think it's because of their personalities rather than the fact they are kids.

However, I know a lot of people who hate kids hands down without giving them a chance. If they were to do this with any other people group, it would be called out as biggoted. Think about it, any race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or lifestyle choice if you say "I hate <blank>" most people would be offended. Most people in fact would say "You are overgeneralizing" at the very least.

The statement "I hate kids" bothers me even a bit more because we all at some point were one. Surely you remember how it hurt to have a condescending adult be rude to you just because you were a child.





Why is it okay to hate kids?

I don't hate kids --if you hate kids and are a teacher I think you should be shot. I do sometimes have little respect and patience for their parents when the kids are running around acting like little hooligans and the parents can't be bothered to go over to them, stop them, and say, "We don't open cookie boxes in the grocery store, eat one, and put the rest back. It's stealing. Now we have to buy the box and we can't get the ice cream we planned on getting."

Kids act what they're taught.

explain me this though, why is it okay for an adult to complain loudly about the "goddamn crotch droppings" at the theater and he is met with the manager apologizing but if I were to bitch about the "goddamn niggers" at my movie the manager would probably tell me to leave?

The adult is being a rude asshole, but... if the kids are talking over the movie, arguing over popcorn, etc. it's the parent's job to take them out to the lobby to explain that we have to be quiet during the movie.

I can't see you yelling about goddamn niggers even if there were blacks being rude and obnoxious during the film, though.

You can say a lot of horrible things about blacks or Mexicans, far worse than any of what you posted, and I promise you I can find plenty of people who will laugh uproariously. In fact, I promise you that for every person you find who says something mean about kids, I could probably find you ten who will say hateful, horrible, cruel things about blacks/Mexicans.

And usually, it will be the same people. ;)
Gives you an idea of what types they are.

So why start another one, unless you need to find some validation and justification for your own viewpoint.

You are boring me, take your broken psyche elsewhere.

You are boring me. Take your insults elsewhere.

The adult is being a rude asshole, but... if the kids are talking over the movie, arguing over popcorn, etc. it's the parent's job to take them out to the lobby to explain that we have to be quiet during the movie.

I can't see you yelling about goddamn niggers even if there were blacks being rude and obnoxious during the film, though.

maybe he was "joking" like Bottle said.

maybe everyone in the thread who has said they hate children was "joking" because really nobody ever really hated children just because they are children.

I might start saying racist things though, maybe I can get off by saying I am "joking" and claim that nobody really ever hates another person based on race, I mean we all joke about it so it doesn't exist though right?

Most kids in general are noisy and fidgety etc... and some people don't like people with that kind of personality. Basically, they don't like childish people, so as the vast majority of children are childish then you don't like the majority of children. It's different with black people because you can't assign any sort of personality to them.

they're noisy, smelly, rampant, have no regard for personal privacy, consider themselve's to be centre of the universe, precocious, obnoxious, have little self control, blah, blah, blah.

Explain how this is different from some of the very people posting on this forum? :D

it's not, see, they can't attack "grown-ups" because adults are a protected class apparently. I have met many more rude, obnoxious, smelly, immature, raunchy, disgusting bags of wind that are adults than I have children......and I work with freaking kids.

But in general you simply cannot logically deny that children tend to be more childish then adults.

Explain how this is different from some of the very people posting on this forum? :D

well we do have kids on this forum...

it's not, see, they can't attack "grown-ups" because adults are a protected class apparently. I have met many more rude, obnoxious, smelly, immature, raunchy, disgusting bags of wind that are adults than I have children......and I work with freaking kids.

Smunkee -- my point exactly.

Explain how this is different from some of the very people posting on this forum? :D

it's not, see, they can't attack "grown-ups" because adults are a protected class apparently. I have met many more rude, obnoxious, smelly, immature, raunchy, disgusting bags of wind that are adults than I have children......and I work with freaking kids.

and adults tend to be more sarcastic and self centered and rude than children. your point?


But it isn't the vast majority of adults that are sarcastic and self centered. It's probably not more then half at most. But the majority of children are childish.

But in general you simply cannot logically deny that children tend to be more childish then adults.
and adults tend to be more sarcastic and self centered and rude than children. your point?
Smunkee -- my point exactly.

yay!

Easy: it's not.

Think about your own examples. What's the public reaction if a black adult is the victim of a violent crime? Now, compare that to the reaction if a child is the victim of a violent crime. What's the typical public perception of a person who would hit another adult, compared to the public perception of a person who hits a child?

The whole reason people joke about "hating" children, and the whole reason people laugh about it, is because it's such a joke. Everybody assumes that, deep down, we all like kids and want to protect them. "Hating" children doesn't mean the same thing as hating black people, because most people find it impossible to believe that somebody would REALLY hate children...but it's perfectly believable that somebody genuinely hates black people.

Myself, I face routine harassment and pressure simply because I don't personally want to make babies. I don't even say I hate children, I just admit that I don't want to make babies. And that's UNACCEPTABLE. Heck, there are people who tell me that the Western World will collapse because of my personal preference to not make babies.

The fact that I'm not interested in babysitting earns me questions about what my problem is, and why I'm so "hostile" to children. The fact that I don't want to hold the baby makes people whisper behind my back. The fact that I'm simply indifferent to children makes my relatives speculate about how I must have been abused as a child (wrong) or how I must be a closet lesbian (wrong, and irrelevant) or how I've just always been a bit weird (true, but also beside the point).

Frankly, I've found that it's uniquely unaccepted to dislike children or the behavior of children.

Word.

Could argue that because all people are at one point kids, it isn't discriminatory or unfair to hate kids, since it is a hatred that affects all people equally, and only for an equal part of their lives.

If a person is willing to go so far as to say "thank god I didn't know myself when I was a kid - I would have hated myself," then I don't think you can criticize him on any grounds of fairness.

Childish-Of, relating to, or suitable for a child or childhood

yep. can't argue that children are children


blacks are black, can I hate them for that?

Nice dodge. You know what I mean by childish, there is no such thing as a "black" personality. There is such thing as a childish personality.

Btw I don't think people who say they "hate" kids actually hate each kid individually, they just hate being around kids in general.

But it isn't the vast majority of adults that are sarcastic and self centered. It's probably not more then half at most. But the majority of children are childish.

Childish-Of, relating to, or suitable for a child or childhood

yep. can't argue that children are children


blacks are black, can I hate them for that?

it's not, see, they can't attack "grown-ups" because adults are a protected class apparently. I have met many more rude, obnoxious, smelly, immature, raunchy, disgusting bags of wind that are adults than I have children......and I work with freaking kids.

well, adults have human rights. children don't. that's why there had to be a special Children's Rights thingy drawn up by the UN because apparently they aren't human. i don't defend it, that's just apparently the way it is. many people seem to have the opinion that children have no rights whatsoever, so naturally it is therefore perfectly acceptable to direct hate at them. disempower any group and the cowards and bullies will have a target for their hate.

Nice dodge. You know what I mean by childish, there is no such thing as a "black" personality. There is such thing as a childish personality.
can't I just hate them for being darker than me? just like people hate kids for being younger than they are?

Btw I don't think people who say they "hate" kids actually hate each kid individually, they just hate being around kids in general.
I don't think that racists mean that they hate black people individually, just that they hate being around them in general, as evidenced by every racists token minority friend.

can't I just hate them for being darker than me? just like people hate kids for being younger than they are?


I don't think that racists mean that they hate black people individually, just that they hate being around them in general, as evidenced by every racists token minority friend.

....

are you deliberately ignoring everything I said?

There is a childish personality, there is nothing wrong with hating certain personalities. There is no such thing as a black personality, thus racism is irrational.

well, adults have human rights. children don't. that's why there had to be a special Children's Rights thingy drawn up by the UN because apparently they aren't human. i don't defend it, that's just apparently the way it is. many people seem to have the opinion that children have no rights whatsoever, so naturally it is therefore perfectly acceptable to direct hate at them. disempower any group and the cowards and bullies will have a target for their hate.

so since children have no rights and that makes it morally right to hate them, then is it okay to beat them or rape them as well? I mean they aren't human right?

so since children have no rights and that makes it morally right to hate them, then is it okay to beat them or rape them as well? I mean they aren't human right?

You can't possibly think that holding an opinion, like 'children are annoying and worthy of hate,' is in any significant way equivalent to injuring or raping someone.

:rolleyes:

Another person so emotionally involved "for de children!!!!" that being reasonable takes a back seat.

Just what the world needs

:rolleyes:

so since children have no rights and that makes it morally right to hate them, then is it okay to beat them or rape them as well? I mean they aren't human right?

that seems to be the thinking of these people. as far as my personal observations go anyway. of course, many if not most of them would draw the line at outright physical and sexual abuse, but probably becasue those show rather than because they have any moral impediment to carrying out such abuse. i've never really understood why children aren't fully covered by the human rights act.


edit: i'm off to see transformers, tata!

can't I just hate them for being darker than me? just like people hate kids for being younger than they are?

That's an oversimplification and you know it. There's more to it than just "being younger."


I don't think that racists mean that they hate black people individually, just that they hate being around them in general, as evidenced by every racists token minority friend.

And, as has been shown before, your "Hating Children = Racism" comparison doesn't work.

I think child-hating is in many ways similar to the growth of peanut and pet allergies. As society gets healthier, the immune system is able to act weird when it senses, say, dust. One-hundred years ago, no one had to worry about peanut allergies, because they were all getting tuberculosis.
Similarly, now that the zeitgeist of society says racism, sexism, anti-Semites, and most other prejudices are wrong, people project their hatred on children. I'm not saying that it's human nature to hate a group of people, but the reasons someone used to be racist (feeling of superiority, belonging, etc.) is now why they hate children.

Children are concentrated evile.

If you don't believe me, ask any small animals unfortunate enough to find themselves at their mercy.

I think child-hating is in many ways similar to the growth of peanut and pet allergies. As society gets healthier, the immune system is able to act weird when it senses, say, dust. One-hundred years ago, no one had to worry about peanut allergies, because they were all getting tuberculosis.
Similarly, now that the zeitgeist of society says racism, sexism, anti-Semites, and most other prejudices are wrong, people project their hatred on children. I'm not saying that it's human nature to hate a group of people, but the reasons someone used to be racist (feeling of superiority, belonging, etc.) is now why they hate children.

Or, you know, it could be that childish behaviour is annoying to some people...

Explain how this is different from some of the very people posting on this forum? :D

Here we have an ignore button. I make liberal use of it.

You can't possibly think that holding an opinion, like 'children are annoying and worthy of hate,' is in any significant way equivalent to injuring or raping someone.

:rolleyes:

Another person so emotionally involved "for de children!!!!" that being reasonable takes a back seat.

Just what the world needs

:rolleyes:

oh, well, then I guess that the general public doesn't see homophobes as a threat to homosexuals then, I mean hate is harmless and nobody would ever ever every mistreat someone they see as less than human right?

That's an oversimplification and you know it. There's more to it than just "being younger."
like what? the oversimplification that all children must have the exact same personality, when do they get their own? when they are 18? or younger, like do teens have their own personality, is it something you get on your 13th birthday?


And, as has been shown before, your "Hating Children = Racism" comparison doesn't work.
sure it does, it's hating a large group of people for something they have no control over.

like what? the oversimplification that all children must have the exact same personality, when do they get their own? when they are 18? or younger, like do teens have their own personality, is it something you get on your 13th birthday?

Or, perhaps, it's something that they grow into over years of being raised by parents and society and by learning, thru behavior that some might consider "childish" and "annoying", what is the acceptable way to act in certain situations.

sure it does, it's hating a large group of people for something they have no control over.

And when groups of people are actively advocating the deaths of all children in the name of this particular brand of racism you've invented for the purpose of demonizing those you would dare to express annoyance at the antics of children, I'll concede the point. Until then, you're comparing a derringer to a nuclear warhead.

You seem to think we're actively going out and attempting to reduce children to nothing more than objects of derision, that we have nothing but utter contempt for children and would rather they be locked away in some box somewhere. You also seem to think that society thinks that sort of thinking is ok. You're wrong. You've been given examples of how society reacts when people say something as innocuous as "I don't want children" and, when you provide an example of someone that, apparently, just hates children, everyone that's commented on it has agreed that not only was he an ass, but so was the manager for supporting him! That is how society thinks, you yourself have admitted that we're supposed to want children.

Or, you know, it could be that childish behaviour is annoying to some people...

I'm assuming when you say "childish" you mean "immature". In that case, people would be annoyed by childish people, not exclusively by children.

I'm assuming when you say "childish" you mean "immature". In that case, people would be annoyed by childish people, not exclusively by children.

And people who are annoyed by "childish" behavior generally are annoyed not only by children, but adults that could be described as "childish."

I am just wondering. A lot of children annoy me, but I really think it's because of their personalities rather than the fact they are kids.

However, I know a lot of people who hate kids hands down without giving them a chance. If they were to do this with any other people group, it would be called out as biggoted. Think about it, any race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or lifestyle choice if you say "I hate <blank>" most people would be offended. Most people in fact would say "You are overgeneralizing" at the very least.

The statement "I hate kids" bothers me even a bit more because we all at some point were one.

But that's just it. We all were kids at one point. We weren't all one race, religion, gender, sexual orientation or lifestyle choice. But every single adult was once a child. So it's a bit perverse, perhaps. But we all earned our dues. I spent my time as a kid, now I can talk shit about it.

Surely you remember how it hurt to have a condescending adult be rude to you just because you were a child.

...not really, no. As a kid my esteem centered around what my peers thought.

And I hated kids even then too. Little bastards. We're all supposed to imagine them harmless, innocent little darlings. Ha! No, they're conniving devils, and I know because I connived too.

And people who are annoyed by "childish" behavior generally are annoyed not only by children, but adults that could be described as "childish."
Right, but then you don't hate children. Saying "I hate children" or even "I don't like children" implies children have some exclusive quality that makes them different from other groups.
I would also like to point out that not all children are immature. I think a large part of how children act past, say, age seven, is determined by their environment, and not their juvenile brain.

I'm assuming when you say "childish" you mean "immature". In that case, people would be annoyed by childish people, not exclusively by children.

Yes, but they would still find children irritating as the majority of them are immature, unlike adults.

And I hated kids even then too. Little bastards. We're all supposed to imagine them harmless, innocent little darlings. Ha! No, they're conniving devils, and I know because I connived too.
True. I think Peanuts and Calvin and Hobbes are among the best examples of children in fiction, the way they are not always the little darlings people like to imagine them to be. Still, they don't deserve to be hated.
Yes, but they would still find children irritating as the majority of them are immature, unlike adults.
I heartily disagree with that. Yes, anyone smaller than six or seven can be counted on to be immature, but that's because of a lack of mental development. It is clearly wrong to hate adults with undeveloped brains, hating children is no better.
If you find a ten-year-old you can't stand, disliking them is not wrong. But disliking someone because they are ten is.

True. I think Peanuts and Calvin and Hobbes are among the best examples of children in fiction, the way they are not always the little darlings people like to imagine them to be. Still, they don't deserve to be hated.

As I said earlier, I don't think when people say "I hate children" they don't literally mean they hate each individual child. They just hate being around them.

Careful there, I have stated numerous times that I don't like being around children...;)

That's very different from hating children. I'm uncomfortable around large crowds of people, that doesn't mean I hate humans as a group.

Right, but then you don't hate children. Saying "I hate children" or even "I don't like children" implies children have some exclusive quality that makes them different from other groups.
I would also like to point out that not all children are immature. I think a large part of how children act past, say, age seven, is determined by their environment, and not there juvenile brain.

Careful there, I have stated numerous times that I don't like being around children...;)

However, I see your point. While it is true that not all children are immature, while they are growing up they are still prone to immature behavior as their personalities grow. Many people find this annoying and, in annoyance, throw out an "I can't stand children."

True. I think Peanuts and Calvin and Hobbes are among the best examples of children in fiction, the way they are not always the little darlings people like to imagine them to be. Still, they don't deserve to be hated.

And only one person here is arguing that such thought is considered acceptable...

I LOVE kids. When they belong to someone else and I only have to be around them for about 5 minutes at most. I feel sorry for kids mostly. Having to be brought into this ugly world. Having ot grow up and lose their innocence and wonder.

I feel sorry for kids mostly. Having to be brought into this ugly world. Having ot grow up and lose their innocence and wonder.
That's why children must be completely cut off from reality and live in a utopian fantasy world.

Thought you might pick up on that, please see the revised post.

I'm a victim of the "I should've also said..." disorder.

Ah, I see. Never mind then, no reason to disagree with you there.

That's very different from hating children. I'm uncomfortable around large crowds of people, that doesn't mean I hate humans as a group.

Thought you might pick up on that, please see the revised post.

I'm a victim of the "I should've also said..." disorder.

That's why children must be completely cut off from reality and live in a utopian fantasy world.

That sounds worryingly like Micheal Jackson

That's why children must be completely cut off from reality and live in a utopian fantasy world.

I wanna live in said utopian fantasy world too!

I wanna live in said utopian fantasy world too!

I see you have made over 12,000 posts. I'd say you are on your way.:p
If you really want to live in said fantasy world, you have to close your eyes, count to five, and...actually, that's it. Just don't open your eyes, and hope someone brings you food.

I see you have made over 12,000 posts. I'd say you are on your way.:p
If you really want to live in said fantasy world, you have to close your eyes, count to five, and...actually, that's it. Just don't open your eyes, and hope someone brings you food.

I almost made it in but they sent me back with a note for you to keep your trash out of their world.

I am just wondering. A lot of children annoy me, but I really think it's because of their personalities rather than the fact they are kids.

However, I know a lot of people who hate kids hands down without giving them a chance. If they were to do this with any other people group, it would be called out as biggoted. Think about it, any race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or lifestyle choice if you say "I hate <blank>" most people would be offended. Most people in fact would say "You are overgeneralizing" at the very least.

The statement "I hate kids" bothers me even a bit more because we all at some point were one. Surely you remember how it hurt to have a condescending adult be rude to you just because you were a child.





Why is it okay to hate kids?

I hate kids.

I hate stealing poultry.

Damn you... :p

I hate kids.

I hate stealing poultry.

Damn you... :p

no, I mean I really hate stealing poultry......it makes my purse smell chickeny. :p:p

Eh. I try not to hate *anything,* but it doesn't bother me when I hear people say they "hate" kids. It's probably a simple reaction to the expectation that we should be having them. A sort of childish "can't make me" attitude, rather than actual "hate." Hate is just the word used to express it.

Easy: it's not.

Think about your own examples. What's the public reaction if a black adult is the victim of a violent crime? Now, compare that to the reaction if a child is the victim of a violent crime. What's the typical public perception of a person who would hit another adult, compared to the public perception of a person who hits a child?

The whole reason people joke about "hating" children, and the whole reason people laugh about it, is because it's such a joke. Everybody assumes that, deep down, we all like kids and want to protect them. "Hating" children doesn't mean the same thing as hating black people, because most people find it impossible to believe that somebody would REALLY hate children...but it's perfectly believable that somebody genuinely hates black people.

Myself, I face routine harassment and pressure simply because I don't personally want to make babies. I don't even say I hate children, I just admit that I don't want to make babies. And that's UNACCEPTABLE. Heck, there are people who tell me that the Western World will collapse because of my personal preference to not make babies.

The fact that I'm not interested in babysitting earns me questions about what my problem is, and why I'm so "hostile" to children. The fact that I don't want to hold the baby makes people whisper behind my back. The fact that I'm simply indifferent to children makes my relatives speculate about how I must have been abused as a child (wrong) or how I must be a closet lesbian (wrong, and irrelevant) or how I've just always been a bit weird (true, but also beside the point).

Frankly, I've found that it's uniquely unaccepted to dislike children or the behavior of children.

Yeah, I agree. I don't want to have kids or get married. My parents acted like I'd committed the ultimate sin when I said that.

Yeah, I agree. I don't want to have kids or get married. My parents acted like I'd committed the ultimate sin when I said that.

Try being married 9 months when you say it. You'd think I told them "not only are we not having children, we've just aborted twins!"

I love my family, but those "small-town values..."

edit: Did you get the patronizing "Oh, you'll change your mind someday..."?

Yeah, I agree. I don't want to have kids or get married. My parents acted like I'd committed the ultimate sin when I said that.

To be honest if I was the parent of a 13 y.o. boy I wouldn't be overly concerned even if I did expect them to get married and have kids eventually

I hate when I walk into say a china shop and they look at me as if I were a bull...

There is a lot of undue prejudice against children, especially in the law.

To be honest if I was the parent of a 13 y.o. boy I wouldn't be overly concerned even if I did expect them to get married and have kids eventually

My parents are Indian. Very big on the whole family thing.

My parents are Indian. Very big on the whole family thing.

Tell them one day you may meet the right guy and decide to adopt.

Though I'd wear a poncho for when their heads explode.

Tell them one day you may meet the right guy and decide to adopt.

Though I'd wear a poncho for when their heads explode.

Lolz. I'd do that, but I'm not that evil. Besides, I don't talk about it that much.

Though I'd wear a poncho for when their heads explode.

I get an image of the scene in 51st State when the guy explodes after drinking the pink cocktail

I do want to get married and have kids someday. Suppose I'm a bit of a minority in this thread. To each his own, though.
My parents wouldn't be too concerned if I didn't, however, as I have a brother who is also a potential source of grandkids. Now if we both didn't want kids, I imagine they'd be quite upset.

Heh, try being the last in your family line to carry on your family name. If I don't get married and produce some children, legitimate or otherwise, long as they carry on that name, my grandparents may arise from the grave and gnaw my head off!

Though...perhaps I could trigger World War Z by this means. Intriguing ideas....

Btw, there's some serious equivocation going on here. There is an obvious difference between a skinhead saying, "I hate those damned Jews and Niggers!" and a college age male (i.e. me, who says this often), "I hate little kids. I was a brat when I was one and they're brats they're them." Huuuuuuge difference in matters of not only degree but matters of, you know, friendly exaggeration. If you can point out where people are like, "Man, I hate kids. Let's go lynch some kids." I'll point out someone who does not fit within social norms, and for good reason.

I say I hate kids a lot. Mostly it's an exageration. I strongly dislike children. I don't have the patience for the level of need in younger children, or the forgivness for the level of arrogance in older children. I dislike how children are raised, how they are allowed to run free with in most cases, next to no strong disciplin which only makes my life harder when I am forced to deal with them. And yes, I was a child once. And I hated it. So I grew up. :p

In any case, you can hate whoever/whatever you damn well please. You're just not supposed to say it out loud or doing anything about it X3

It's not okay to hate anyone, let alone kids.

no, I mean I really hate stealing poultry......it makes my purse smell chickeny. :p:p

Here. Here is where she's given up.

Childishness is annoying. Through some strange mechanism scientists have not yet been able to determine, Children have a strong tendency towards childishness.

Here. Here is where she's given up.

Childishness is annoying. Through some strange mechanism scientists have not yet been able to determine, Children have a strong tendency towards childishness.

maybe I don't get the hatred of childishness, because I am a big kid.

I have decided to have an analogous hate though, I hate old people they are smelly and have poor hygiene and are often grumpy and also, they are senile. I think it should be illegal for them to be in public, next time there is a geezer at the movies, I am demanding a refund!

I am just wondering. A lot of children annoy me, but I really think it's because of their personalities rather than the fact they are kids.

However, I know a lot of people who hate kids hands down without giving them a chance. If they were to do this with any other people group, it would be called out as biggoted. Think about it, any race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or lifestyle choice if you say "I hate <blank>" most people would be offended. Most people in fact would say "You are overgeneralizing" at the very least.

The statement "I hate kids" bothers me even a bit more because we all at some point were one. Surely you remember how it hurt to have a condescending adult be rude to you just because you were a child.





Why is it okay to hate kids?

Because being a kid actually has some behavioural connotation. Kids, on the whole, do not act like adults do, and can actually be very intrusive, destructive, or loud.

So I guess it's fair to say I hate intrusive, destructive, or loud people, and kids tend to be all of those things.

maybe I don't get the hatred of childishness, because I am a big kid.

I have decided to have an analogous hate though, I hate old people they are smelly and have poor hygiene and are often grumpy and also, they are senile. I think it should be illegal for them to be in public, next time there is a geezer at the movies, I am demanding a refund!

And you're within your rights to do that, you'll just be considered a complete dick for doing so...unless the elderly person was being especially distracting. For what it's worth, while I generally dislike children (I make a terrible baby-sitter, small children find me fascinating and I find my patience easily worn thin), I'm also not exactly a big fan of the elderly. Nor do I especially like fat people, but, you see, none of those things are at all comparable to racism.

maybe I don't get the hatred of childishness, because I am a big kid.

I have decided to have an analogous hate though, I hate old people they are smelly and have poor hygiene and are often grumpy and also, they are senile. I think it should be illegal for them to be in public, next time there is a geezer at the movies, I am demanding a refund!

and thats the problem in a nutshell eh?

not that "kids arent my cup of tea so i dont hang out with them" but "i dont like kids, they shouldnt be allowed in movie theaters, restaurants, or airplanes if there is a chance i might be there too"

maybe I don't get the hatred of childishness, because I am a big kid.

I have decided to have an analogous hate though, I hate old people they are smelly and have poor hygiene and are often grumpy and also, they are senile. I think it should be illegal for them to be in public, next time there is a geezer at the movies, I am demanding a refund!

That great Smunkee, go out and hate those oldsters.

Anyways, to those still participating, anyone think we don't all mean the same thing by 'hate'? I hate stubbing my toe, I hate when the remote falls into the couch, and I hate when there's nothing tasty to drink in the fridge. Somehow I find these things slightly different from a sort of..."I wish he were dead" hate.

and thats the problem in a nutshell eh?

not that "kids arent my cup of tea so i dont hang out with them" but "i dont like kids, they shouldnt be allowed in movie theaters, restaurants, or airplanes if there is a chance i might be there too"

well, yeah. For example I had to leave the hospital today while my husband was having major surgery because "kids aren't allowed in the ICU waiting room" it didn't matter that my kids were reading and being quieter than most of the adults, it didn't even matter that it wasn't a "real rule" of the hospital, it only mattered that bitchy nurse (that is her name now) as she put it "hates kids, pretty much anyone under 16"

well, yeah. For example I had to leave the hospital today while my husband was having major surgery because "kids aren't allowed in the ICU waiting room" it didn't matter that my kids were reading and being quieter than most of the adults, it didn't even matter that it wasn't a "real rule" of the hospital, it only mattered that bitchy nurse (that is her name now) as she put it "hates kids, pretty much anyone under 16"

ohmygod is your husband OK?

ohmygod is your husband OK?

got a bit of lower intestine snipped out, he's fine.

got a bit of lower intestine snipped out, he's fine.

yikes. thats not something that happens every day. im glad he's OK

yikes. thats not something that happens every day. im glad he's OK

I finally got back up there to see him, and he told me to go home....he doesn't feel so hot.

I am sneaking him ice tomorrow, the ice at the hospital smells funny.

I finally got back up there to see him, and he told me to go home....he doesn't feel so hot.

I am sneaking him ice tomorrow, the ice at the hospital smells funny.

sounds like a good idea.

too much unfiltered chlorine

Went to movie. Saw a family with a small kid. "Aw shit" I said to myself "This little ankle biter is gonna tlak durin' the film"

:headbang:Argh! Damn! Sometimes you hate being right.

I wanted to smear that toe-headed mutant across the wall like peanut butter, and watch the rats pick at the gooey remains.:)

Went to movie. Saw a family with a small kid. "Aw shit" I said to myself "This little ankle biter is gonna tlak durin' the film"

:headbang:Argh! Damn! Sometimes you hate being right.

I wanted to smear that toe-headed mutant across the wall like peanut butter, and watch the rats pick at the gooey remains.:)

uhhuh

some children talk during movies.

is that a reason to hate ALL children?

last time *I* was in a movie some asshole adult took a cell phone call in the middle of the movie, does that mean its OK to hate all adults?

uhhuh

some children talk during movies.

is that a reason to hate ALL children?

last time *I* was in a movie some asshole adult took a cell phone call in the middle of the movie, does that mean its OK to hate all adults?

Hm, alright. Its okay to hate everybody some of the time.:D

But a muzzle law should be passed to muffle repeat offenders.

is that a reason to hate ALL children?

Who said all? And why do I feel I've made this post recently? :P

Hm, alright. Its okay to hate everybody some of the time.:D

But a muzzle law should be passed to muffle repeat offenders.

its "OK" to hate individuals.

(given that its not OK to hate someone for being noisy)

but the problem in most of these circumstances lie not with the children but with the establishment, the parents and your own expectations.

if you were in "shrek 2" you were a fool to think that no kid would talk, for example.

there is no reason for a movie theater to automatically ban children from any pg-13 or under movie but they might want to enforce the "shut the fuck up" rule with ALL patrons.

and yes, parents shouldnt take their children to movies not meant for children if they are unable to sit quietly.

Who said all? And why do I feel I've made this post recently? :P

that IS the topic.

after all, its perfectly OK to hate the kid next door if he killed your grandmother eh?

that IS the topic.

I wouldn't say so. Title doesn't seem to say 'all' either...

its "OK" to hate individuals.

(given that its not OK to hate someone for being noisy)

but the problem in most of these circumstances lie not with the children but with the establishment, the parents and your own expectations.

if you were in "shrek 2" you were a fool to think that no kid would talk, for example.

there is no reason for a movie theater to automatically ban children from any pg-13 or under movie but they might want to enforce the "shut the fuck up" rule with ALL patrons.

and yes, parents shouldnt take their children to movies not meant for children if they are unable to sit quietly.

Hey, if you paid eight bucks for a steak and a dog ate it, you'd hate it. Even if it was in it's nature, Its your fault for thinking that it'd be okay to eat on the patio.

I believe I said "Repeat offenders" Not whiney little nose gropers.

Why is OK in quotes? That's not "Okay".

I wouldn't say so. Title doesn't seem to say 'all' either...

He's right.

I gave a reason to hate kid(s). not all. but a reason none the less.

I wouldn't say so. Title doesn't seem to say 'all' either...

so in your mind its possible that smunkee meant to imply that there is never a good reason to hate ANY child even if that kid did kill your grandmother?

i think not.

so in your mind its possible that smunkee meant to imply that there is never a good reason to hate ANY child even if that kid did kill your grandmother?

i think not.

I think Smunkee is prone to seeing 'all's where there are none. She causes a lot of conflicts like that, especially when she sees it in front of the word 'christians'

Why is it okay to hate kids?

why not?:p

so in your mind its possible that smunkee meant to imply that there is never a good reason to hate ANY child even if that kid did kill your grandmother?

i think not.

Not if (s)he's charged as an adult.:p

I am just wondering. A lot of children annoy me, but I really think it's because of their personalities rather than the fact they are kids.

However, I know a lot of people who hate kids hands down without giving them a chance. If they were to do this with any other people group, it would be called out as biggoted. Think about it, any race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or lifestyle choice if you say "I hate <blank>" most people would be offended. Most people in fact would say "You are overgeneralizing" at the very least.

The statement "I hate kids" bothers me even a bit more because we all at some point were one. Surely you remember how it hurt to have a condescending adult be rude to you just because you were a child.





Why is it okay to hate kids?

It is not okay to hate kids as a whole or group, but hating individual kids on a basis other than their youth, such as their attitude, their hatred of you, etc. is understandable; if some little jackwad flips me the bird or tells me to go to hell or someplace similar, then I'm, to say the least, not gonna be very kindly disposed to him/her.

But being biased against kids as a whole is an unjust and undue generalization.

I am just wondering. A lot of children annoy me, but I really think it's because of their personalities rather than the fact they are kids.

However, I know a lot of people who hate kids hands down without giving them a chance. If they were to do this with any other people group, it would be called out as biggoted. Think about it, any race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or lifestyle choice if you say "I hate <blank>" most people would be offended. Most people in fact would say "You are overgeneralizing" at the very least.

The statement "I hate kids" bothers me even a bit more because we all at some point were one. Surely you remember how it hurt to have a condescending adult be rude to you just because you were a child.





Why is it okay to hate kids?

because for one, kids seem to have a sense of entitlement that didn't exist when I was one. also they have been allowed too much say so in decision making, for someone who has no life experience, which consequently results in a large group of morons with no respect for their elders, other peoples property,or themselves, for that matter. and when you consider how the future will play out, you can't help but to think that we should be allowed to move the abortion law up to age 18. (you need proof, check the white house) :rolleyes:

I hate when I walk into say a china shop and they look at me as if I were a bull...

There is a lot of undue prejudice against children, especially in the law.

What :confused: by all means give me an example.

I myself never really liked children. I don't hate them in a sense, but I don't really care for them either. I admit, I am a teeneager, but people who know me always describe me as being 15 going on forty. Thing is, childish acts aren't cute, ther'ye annoying. A little kid sinign in public really loudly, annoying. Teenagers walking around thinking they're the masteres of everything, not only annoying, but down right disruptive as well. I prefer the peace and calm of the adult world to that of the wild reckless world of youths.

no, I mean I really hate stealing poultry......it makes my purse smell chickeny. :p:p

Oh, yeah. That's not very pleasant.

maybe I don't get the hatred of childishness, because I am a big kid.

I have decided to have an analogous hate though, I hate old people they are smelly and have poor hygiene and are often grumpy and also, they are senile. I think it should be illegal for them to be in public, next time there is a geezer at the movies, I am demanding a refund!
Out of curiosity, who in this thread has been advocating that children be legally banned from going out in public? How many national or world-wide organizations advocate keeping children out of the public eye completely?

Look, most people agree there are certain places small children should not be. You do, too, Smunk. You don't think children should be admitted to X-rated movies. You don't think children should be playing on the floor of the Senate, or getting trampled on the floor of the Stock Market. You are a sane individual, and you recognize that small children have different needs than adults, and these needs are not always compatible with every single area of adult life. There's a reason why we don't let toddlers drive cars or vote or buy beer.

The only difference between you and everybody else is that you're pissed off at everybody else for drawing the line where they do. You believe a three year old shouldn't be in a porno theater; some people believe a three year old shouldn't be brought to a theater production of Our Town. You draw the line in a different place than other people. That's your right, but you really need to get off your high horse and quit pretending it's all about "hating" children.

Frankly, most of the lines I draw are about the kids' well-being as much as my own. It's stupid and selfish for a parent to choose to go to an expensive restaurant with a very polished behavior code and drag along their small toddler who OBVIOUSLY isn't going to want to sit still and be perfectly behaved from 7pm to the 10pm desert course. OF COURSE the kid is going to need to be entertained, and OF COURSE the kid is going to get tired and owly long before the adults want to stop their chatter.

(Yes yes, I know, your children are miraculous and perfectly behaved and love to sit quietly in boring restaurants while grown ups talk about grown up things.)

Parents need to recognize that there are some activities that are simply not age-appropriate for their small children. Instead of trying to drag your kids along wherever YOU want to go, try finding them age-appropriate activities and kid-friendly spaces where they don't have to be on their best behavior all the time.

Anyways, to those still participating, anyone think we don't all mean the same thing by 'hate'? I hate stubbing my toe, I hate when the remote falls into the couch, and I hate when there's nothing tasty to drink in the fridge. Somehow I find these things slightly different from a sort of..."I wish he were dead" hate.
A very good point.

I honestly think most people who "hate" kids are exhibiting the toe-stubbing kind of "hate." Pretty damn far removed from the hate of a person who thinks black people should be exterminated.

its "OK" to hate individuals.

(given that its not OK to hate someone for being noisy)

but the problem in most of these circumstances lie not with the children but with the establishment, the parents and your own expectations.

if you were in "shrek 2" you were a fool to think that no kid would talk, for example.

there is no reason for a movie theater to automatically ban children from any pg-13 or under movie but they might want to enforce the "shut the fuck up" rule with ALL patrons.

and yes, parents shouldnt take their children to movies not meant for children if they are unable to sit quietly.
Since a bunch of folks shared At The Movies stories, here's one of my own.

Himself and I went to see Smoking Aces a while back. Rated R movie. Action and lots of violence.

About ten minutes after the movie starts, a woman enters the theater with her small child. I'm guessing he was 3-4 years old. They sit a row in front of us.

Small Boy is talking. Small Boy does not stop talking. He's not yelling, just speaking in a normal-tone voice. Mother appears to be trying to shush Small Boy, but does not appear to be having any impact.

A violent scene occurs on screen. Small Boy yells and points and talks excitedly. Mother tells Small Boy to be quiet (herself using a normal-tone voice, not a whisper).

This continues for about 5 minutes. Finally, Mother gets up and takes Small Boy out of the theater. The rest of us sigh with relief. Clearly, she has realized that this is not an appropriate movie, and that her child is not going to quiet down. Thank you, Mother to Small Boy!

Whoops. Nope. They're back.

Talking resumes. Mother continues to tell Small Boy to be quiet, not bothering to whisper herself, and Small Boy continues to talk.

Finally, Himself has had enough. He gets up and goes to find an usher.

Usher enters. Usher whispers to Mother. Mother says, loudly, "I paid to see this movie same as everybody else, and I'm not leaving!" Usher whispers. Mother says, "I paid for my ticket, you can't make me leave."

Usher leaves.

A minute passes, with more talking from Small Boy and Mother. Mother now appears to be holding a one-sided conversation about how she won't leave because she paid for her ticket.

Manager enters. Whispers to Mother.

Mother finally gets up to leave with the Manager, taking Small Boy. (Sometime during this, Small Boy developed a bit of a cough, which interrupts his chatter momentarily. Mother appears unconcerned.)

Again, sighs of relief in the theater. Surely, Manager will be able to explain to Mother why she and Small Boy might prefer one of the kid-friendly films, or why she might get a sitter before she returns to this particular film.

From in the hallway outside the theater, we hear raised voices. Well, raised voice, really.

"Don't you think I don't know what this is all about! I come in here to see a movie, and you all are just trying to throw me out even after I paid! I saw that white boy go out to complain, and now I'm out and he's in there!"

"White boy" = Himself.

Mother and Small Boy are black.

Of course, Usher and Manager are black, too. But because the person who complained about a loud child happened to be of another ethnicity, clearly it MUST BE a race issue, and CANNOT BE because of a talking child.

At least four other people from our showing of that movie left when we did. We'd already missed a huge chunk of the movie due to this drama, so we got our money back and went to see it somewhere else.

What's the moral of my long, long story?

Smunkee has stories of movie theaters being crappy toward kids. I have stories about parents choosing to take their kids to inappropriate places, and refusing to recognize their own mistake.

A surprising number of people are jackasses when they go to the movies. As a result, anybody who goes to the movies on a regular basis will probably have an At The Movies story about any of a dozen different types of jackassery.

I hare children because I hate people in general. Children just happen to represent what most adults suppress; the insatiable urge to be bald-faced fucktards in public.

Children who act up and have tantrums represent what their parents have failed to weed out of them. They are the very image of the parents and the parents' inability to act in a way that makes the world a more tolerable place.

Children are very impressionable and if they see mommy or daddy acting a certain way in public when something doesn't go according to the parent's expectations, the child will learn to think that this is acceptable.

I tend to hate the parent as well as the child when I see this.

It's ok to hate children because it's ok to hate people in general.

Parents need to recognize that there are some activities that are simply not age-appropriate for their small children. Instead of trying to drag your kids along wherever YOU want to go, try finding them age-appropriate activities and kid-friendly spaces where they don't have to be on their best behavior all the time.

My point being that people make rude remarks in places that kids should be allowed to be at, and they make them to my children, and they ask authority people to have my children removed. Adults need to realize that kids are people, they are allowed to go to places like the movies, the hospital, the park, the bowling alley, the ice rink, and restaurants. I don't particularly like people with cell phones who interrupt my life with their incessant babbling loudly while I am having a coffee with a friend, I don't ask the manager to remove them and I don't go up to them and make snide comments about being seen and not heard. For all the adults complaining about how kids are "childish" there sure are a lot of vindictive, rude, and childish adults doing the whining.

My point being that people make rude remarks in places that kids should be allowed to be at, and they make them to my children, and they ask authority people to have my children removed.

The entire point of my post was that other people may not agree with you that your kids should be allowed to be at that particular place.

Obviously you think your kids should be allowed wherever it is. Somebody else may not share your opinion. I know people who don't think children under 5 should ever be in movie theaters at all, regardless of what movie it is. I don't personally share that standard, but I can understand the perspective of those who do.


Adults need to realize that kids are people, they are allowed to go to places like the movies, the hospital, the park, the bowling alley, the ice rink, and restaurants.

Again, you just draw the line in a different place than others. If "kids are people," and people are allowed to go to porno films, are you going to argue that 5 year olds be permitted to sit in on X-rated movies? Somehow I doubt it.


I don't particularly like people with cell phones who interrupt my life with their incessant babbling loudly while I am having a coffee with a friend, I don't ask the manager to remove them and I don't go up to them and make snide comments about being seen and not heard.

That's your choice. Myself, I do complain if a person on their cell phone is being so loud that they disrupt me. Either that, or I simply leave, and inform the management of why I'm leaving.

If I'm paying to have a nice dinner at a fancy restaurant, I don't want to hear a child screaming and throwing a tantrum because there's no pizza on the menu. I'm going to choose to spend my money at restaurants that allow for a more adult dining environment. If you choose to bring your child to such a restaurant, and if your child acts out, then I will choose to leave and take my money with me. The management then must decide which they prefer to have: children in their fancy establishment, or paying adult customers.


For all the adults complaining about how kids are "childish" there sure are a lot of vindictive, rude, and childish adults doing the whining.
Yes, some adults are jerks. And you can complain about their behavior if you want. But please quit with this nonsense about how people "hating" children is comparable to racism or any other such thing. It's bunk.

Yes, some adults are jerks. And you can complain about their behavior if you want. But please quit with this nonsense about how people "hating" children is comparable to racism or any other such thing. It's bunk.
There is a difference between me complaining about a black woman talking at the movie and me complaining that they let black people come to the movies at all. If you can't understand the difference I don't really know how to explain it. My kids get treated poorly because people have problems with kids, not because my kids do anything worthy of being treated poorly.

Went to movie. Saw a family with a small kid. "Aw shit" I said to myself "This little ankle biter is gonna tlak durin' the film"

:headbang:Argh! Damn! Sometimes you hate being right.

I wanted to smear that toe-headed mutant across the wall like peanut butter, and watch the rats pick at the gooey remains.:)

This is when you DO ask the manager to refund your ticket or remove the child, if the family is doing nothing to ensure that he gets the message "there are other people here who did not pay to hear you."

I think Smunkee is prone to seeing 'all's where there are none. She causes a lot of conflicts like that, especially when she sees it in front of the word 'christians'

To be fair, there is plenty of the "ALL CHRISTIANS ARE X" disease going on on this board.

because for one, kids seem to have a sense of entitlement that didn't exist when I was one. also they have been allowed too much say so in decision making, for someone who has no life experience, which consequently results in a large group of morons with no respect for their elders, other peoples property,or themselves, for that matter. and when you consider how the future will play out, you can't help but to think that we should be allowed to move the abortion law up to age 18. (you need proof, check the white house) :rolleyes:

And whose fault is that?
Did the kids raise themselves? Or did their parents encourage such a feeling of entitlement, and listened to children when they expressed opinions they had no business expressing? When the kids show no respect to their elders, is that corrected, or is it laughed off or ignored?

It's not the kids' fault if they are misbehaving and allowed to misbehave -- it's the adults' fault for not making it clear that the behavior is not appropriate.

To be fair, there is plenty of the "ALL CHRISTIANS ARE X" disease going on on this board.

apparently though those are okay, because when they say things like "Christians are stupid" then it really doesn't mean all Christians or even the majority of Christians it just really means that they met some Christians and so since they didn't say "all" and only and idiot would assume that they did mean "all" then really they are right.

I hare children because I hate people in general. Children just happen to represent what most adults suppress; the insatiable urge to be bald-faced fucktards in public.
You seem to live in a terrible world, quite different than mine. Tell me, are lawns in your city made mostly of dog shit? Because I know people who claim to live in my city and who say it is so, and I guess they share the parallel universe with you. And I feel for you all. Really.

You seem to live in a terrible world, quite different than mine. Tell me, are lawns in your city made mostly of dog shit? Because I know people who claim to live in my city and who say it is so, and I guess they share the parallel universe with you. And I feel for you all. Really.
me too. I must see like 75 kids a day and none of that goes down.....maybe I live in a perfect world where children aren't routinely evil.

I see more adults driving like idiots while talking on their cell phones than I see children misbehaving in public.

Although I was recently told that "here in the south" we treat our children like enlistees since they say things like "yes, ma'am" and "please" and "thank you".

You seem to live in a terrible world, quite different than mine. Tell me, are lawns in your city made mostly of dog shit? Because I know people who claim to live in my city and who say it is so, and I guess they share the parallel universe with you. And I feel for you all. Really.

No, the lawns in my city are made of "grass". ;) I just happen to not like people in general and find that while people pretend to be civil in public, their children are an accurate representation of what those people truly are. As I said, children are impressionable and will mimic the actions of adults without realising the consequences as they see the actions and assume it is the norm.

me too. I must see like 75 kids a day and none of that goes down.....maybe I live in a perfect world where children aren't routinely evil.

I see more adults driving like idiots while talking on their cell phones than I see children misbehaving in public.

Although I was recently told that "here in the south" we treat our children like enlistees since they say things like "yes, ma'am" and "please" and "thank you".

Too bad there was more of that "good" behaviour.

It seems that the children I see in public are ill-mannered brats. Hence my general contempt for children and their parents... and people in general since being in public tends to make some people into bigger assholes than usual.

Although I was recently told that "here in the south" we treat our children like enlistees since they say things like "yes, ma'am" and "please" and "thank you".
Well we managed to learn out 1 year old it's not OK to hit the dog on the head, while it's OK to pat him on the back (in spite of grammar I refuse to call him "it") so I guess we treat her as an enlistee ;).

Although I was recently told that "here in the south" we treat our children like enlistees since they say things like "yes, ma'am" and "please" and "thank you".

Nobody said anything about "please" or "thank you". We just found referring to people, especially close relatives, as "sir" or "madam" particularly unusual, because that behaviour implies certain attitudes here.

I even said that I find being called "sir" uncomfortable.

It seems that the children I see in public are ill-mannered brats. Hence my general contempt for children and their parents... and people in general since being in public tends to make some people into bigger assholes than usual.
What can I say... Blame Canada! :D

Although I was recently told that "here in the south" we treat our children like enlistees since they say things like "yes, ma'am" and "please" and "thank you".

:rolleyes:

Right...because up north, we don't teach our children "please" and "thank you." And everyone who uses the word "ma'am" is automatically being polite...

Well we managed to learn out 1 year old it's not OK to hit the dog on the head, while it's OK to pat him on the back (in spite of grammar I refuse to call him "it") so I guess we treat her as an enlistee ;).

must be......I taught my youngest when she was 9 months old not to throw food....very drill sergeant I am sure. She threw food, I took away her food. She figured out after about the second attempt that if she threw food she wouldn't have any.....I am sure some would think it was some sort of abuse me taking away her grapes though.

Although I was recently told that "here in the south" we treat our children like enlistees since they say things like "yes, ma'am" and "please" and "thank you".

That's just having taught them manners. *I* say yes ma'am or no sir to people with whom I am not acquainted, and please and thank you, as well.

And I'm a damn yankee!

:rolleyes:

Right...because up north, we don't teach our children "please" and "thank you." And everyone who uses the word "ma'am" is automatically being polite...

didn't say that. I said that I was told earlier this week that requiring things like that was fascist and that my children were being treated like they were enlistees.

didn't say that. I said that I was told earlier this week that requiring things like that was fascist and that my children were being treated like they were enlistees.

And we didn't say anything about "please" or "thank you"... Oh, why bother.

must be......I taught my youngest when she was 9 months old not to throw food....very drill sergeant I am sure. She threw food, I took away her food. She figured out after about the second attempt that if she threw food she wouldn't have any.....I am sure some would think it was some sort of abuse me taking away her grapes though.

Sounds like what I do to my cat. If my cat does something wrong, I take away the wet food and leave her with her dry kibble.

Question... do squirt guns work on kids who act up? It helps when I deal with my cat... ;)

I wasn't sure how to answer the poll. In general I can't stand being around children. I absolutely refuse to babysit my nieces and nephews. I have no patience and want the younger ones to go away quickly. That said, I have a hard time being mean to them, and the ones who aren't scared of me (sadly, more than half) seem to really like me. Sometimes I have a hard time getting rid of them. People who know me find it rather amusing that so many kids take to me.

So, while I'd never wish any harm on a child, I sure as hell try to avoid them. I believe they should be well cared for, just by somebody else, somewhere else.

On the other hand, I'm very fond of my teenage niece and nephew. Eventually the damn things grow on you. Like a fungus.

There is a difference between me complaining about a black woman talking at the movie and me complaining that they let black people come to the movies at all. If you can't understand the difference I don't really know how to explain it.

Can you understand how unbelievably insulting it is for you to continue comparing black adults to children?


My kids get treated poorly because people have problems with kids, not because my kids do anything worthy of being treated poorly.
Yet again I will say it:

It's all subjective.

You obviously think your kids are fine. You obviously think your kids belong wherever it is you've brought them.

NOT EVERYBODY AGREES WITH YOU.

Shock of shocks.

Too bad there was more of that "good" behaviour.

It seems that the children I see in public are ill-mannered brats. Hence my general contempt for children and their parents... and people in general since being in public tends to make some people into bigger assholes than usual.
The thing is, the only children I really "see" out in public are the ones who call attention to themselves. (Same goes for adults.)

Most of the time, I'm out in public for some reason, and my mind is on accomplishing or doing whatever it is I'm there for. I'm not paying specific attention to every person around me, unless they somehow draw my attention.

This means that my sample of the children I "see" will be grossly biased. If your child is quiet and unobtrusive, I'm not going to notice it. It will just be part of the background drone of the public. If your child screams or cries loudly, suddenly I "see" the child for the first time. I am now aware it exists.

I think a lot of people work the way I do. As a result, we only really see kids when they're being loud, and that can lead to the perception that all kids are loud.

why is it insulting?

Aside from the obvious that you're comparing apples to oranges... there is no race involve when it comes to the children. We're stating our contempt in general for the little blighters and not for one race of brats in particular. I'm guessing...

Can you understand how unbelievably insulting it is for you to continue comparing black adults to children?
why is it insulting?

why is it insulting?
...

You're kidding, right?

Jeez, re-read the thread, Smunk. I'm not the only one who's pointed out how bunk it is to use this racism comparison of yours. There's already a long list of individual reason. The fact that you cling to this comparison despite ample explanation of why it is bunk...well, it's starting to verge on racism at this point.

The thing is, the only children I really "see" out in public are the ones who call attention to themselves. (Same goes for adults.)

Most of the time, I'm out in public for some reason, and my mind is on accomplishing or doing whatever it is I'm there for. I'm not paying specific attention to every person around me, unless they somehow draw my attention.

This means that my sample of the children I "see" will be grossly biased. If your child is quiet and unobtrusive, I'm not going to notice it. It will just be part of the background drone of the public. If your child screams or cries loudly, suddenly I "see" the child for the first time. I am now aware it exists.

I think a lot of people work the way I do. As a result, we only really see kids when they're being loud, and that can lead to the perception that all kids are loud.

Precisely. But most parents tend to not understand this.

We the people who have a general distaste for children do because the only ones we see and hear are ones who happen to be the brats and not the well behaved ones. The "good" children blend in and hence go unnoticed because they aren't vying for attention with their attention-whoremongering counterparts who insist on being obnoxious in public while their oblivious parents go, "well, they're just being children" and proceed to go into ostrich mode, shoving their heads twenty leagues up their ass.

what's the difference between hating someone for their age and hating someone for their race? I see no difference, both are hating people for something arbitrary that they have no control over.

Just because some kids are brats doesn't mean they all are, nor does it mean a majority are.

Would you then advocate that children should be allowed to vote, drive cars, work, own guns, and marry?
Or are you treating them differently from adults, simply for something as arbitrary as age?

Aside from the obvious that you're comparing apples to oranges... there is no race involve when it comes to the children. We're stating our contempt in general for the little blighters and not for one race of brats in particular. I'm guessing...

what's the difference between hating someone for their age and hating someone for their race? I see no difference, both are hating people for something arbitrary that they have no control over.

Just because some kids are brats doesn't mean they all are, nor does it mean a majority are.

what's the difference between hating someone for their age and hating someone for their race? I see no difference, both are hating people for something arbitrary that they have no control over.

Just because some kids are brats doesn't mean they all are, nor does it mean a majority are.

Did I ever say I hate them because they are under X age? I have said it was because of the behaviour. It just happens to be more accentuated because children have fewer inhibitions and are more likely to act on impulses than adults. Though that doesn't mean there aren't adults who do the same.

I don't hate them for their age, I hate them for the way they act. There is a big difference. The only thing is, they happen to be younger than me. This doesn't make it ageism if I hate someone for the way they act. I hate plenty of adults and elderly because of the way they act.

what's the difference between hating someone for their age and hating someone for their race? I see no difference, both are hating people for something arbitrary that they have no control over.

Just because some kids are brats doesn't mean they all are, nor does it mean a majority are.

It's been explained why their behaviour causes people to hate them. You just keep being obtuse and saying "but you wouldn't hate black people for being black!". No. And we don't hate children for being children; we hate them for behaving the way children behave. If adults - that would be, the group of people who aren't children - behaved that way they would be dealt with by the police. But children? "Oh, they're just children, leave them alone."

...

You're kidding, right?

Jeez, re-read the thread, Smunk. I'm not the only one who's pointed out how bunk it is to use this racism comparison of yours. There's already a long list of individual reason. The fact that you cling to this comparison despite ample explanation of why it is bunk...well, it's starting to verge on racism at this point.

I picked racism because I know it bothers you people, I don't see how there is this huge difference between racism and the assumption that all children are annoying little tits and thus are worthy of general despise.

The only "reason" you guys have ever given as to why it's "okay" to hate children is because they are children. Otherwise it's been gross generalizations and faulty anecdotal evidence, I can overgeneralize about another race, and I have anecdotes of my own, but they don't fly as "reason" when trying to defend racism, well, unless you are talking to other racists.

and all children act the same way?
I don't want to speak for Kry, but for myself:

No, I 'hate' the children WHO DO ACT THAT WAY. Same as I 'hate' adults who act out in public. If your child is quiet and behaved in public, odds are I don't even 'see' your child at all, let alone have any opinion about it one way or the other.

I don't hate them for their age, I hate them for the way they act. There is a big difference. The only thing is, they happen to be younger than me. This doesn't make it ageism if I hate someone for the way they act. I hate plenty of adults and elderly because of the way they act.

and all children act the same way?

The only "reason" you guys have ever given as to why it's "okay" to hate children is because they are children.
If that's seriously all you've gotten from this thread, then there's no point in continuing to participate. You're obviously not reading or paying attention to any of what's being said.

I'm disappointed. When somebody else came in to insult you and say you were just looking for validation and whatnot, I defended you because I didn't think that was something you'd do. At this point, however, I'm starting to wonder. You don't seem actually interested in any discussion at all, you just want to be mad and rant. That's dull.

It's been explained why their behaviour causes people to hate them. You just keep being obtuse and saying "but you wouldn't hate black people for being black!". No. And we don't hate children for being children; we hate them for behaving the way children behave. If adults - that would be, the group of people who aren't children - behaved that way they would be dealt with by the police. But children? "Oh, they're just children, leave them alone."

and all children behave the same way? every single one? they all have the same annoying child personality?

I don't want to speak for Kry, but for myself:

No, I 'hate' the children WHO DO ACT THAT WAY. Same as I 'hate' adults who act out in public. If your child is quiet and behaved in public, odds are I don't even 'see' your child at all, let alone have any opinion about it one way or the other.

that's different. Saying "I don't like rude obnoxious people" is much different than saying "I hate kids because all kids are rude and obnoxious"

and all children behave the same way? every single one? they all have the same annoying child personality?

All of the ones I notice do, yes. See Bottle's comment about sample bias.

that's different. Saying "I don't like rude obnoxious people" is much different than saying "I hate kids because all kids are rude and obnoxious"
Smunk, people have said all this and more countless times already. You're playing dumb, and ignoring what people are saying in favor of building straw men to yell at.

You're not this stupid, so I know it's intentional on your part. What I don't understand is why you're doing it. It's not productive, it's not honest, and it's not going to help improve a damn thing. If anything, seeing your behavior on this thread has decreased my confidence in your ability to keep a cool head if your kids do act out. It seems like you'd be far more likely to flip out on other adults in the area and "kill the messenger", rather than have to consider the possibility that your kids might be DOING something.

that's different. Saying "I don't like rude obnoxious people" is much different than saying "I hate kids because all kids are rude and obnoxious"

That's funny, seeing how in the post you quoted Bottle clearly says "I don't like rude obnoxious kids".

and all children act the same way?

Well, the ones that get noticed all act in an obnoxious fashion that draws attention to them in a negative way. I almost never see well behaved children because they are under my line of vision and not doing anything to get my attention. So, I wouldn't know if they were there.

To me, children tend to seem like little brats because they are the ones I see more.

One cannot make a positive assessment when they only see negative behaviour.

That's funny, seeing how in the post you quoted Bottle clearly says "I don't like rude obnoxious kids".
Geez, THANK YOU! I was starting to wonder if my posts were passing through some kind of nonsense-generating filter when I clicked "submit," rendering my words into the meaningless gibberish Smunk is responding to...

Geez, THANK YOU! I was starting to wonder if my posts were passing through some kind of nonsense-generating filter when I clicked "submit," rendering my words into the meaningless gibberish Smunk is responding to...

It's NSG. Post distortion happens at the user level. PEBKAC. ;)

and all children behave the same way? every single one? they all have the same annoying child personality?

pretty much yes. Maybe not to the same extent, but even the shy quiet reserved wouldn't hurt a fly little faerie princess will still shreak like a fucking banshee if the mood particularly strikes her

why is it insulting?

There are certain behaviors and attitudes that almost all children have. Not true with blacks. Unless they're children.

If that's seriously all you've gotten from this thread, then there's no point in continuing to participate. You're obviously not reading or paying attention to any of what's being said.

I'm disappointed. When somebody else came in to insult you and say you were just looking for validation and whatnot, I defended you because I didn't think that was something you'd do. At this point, however, I'm starting to wonder. You don't seem actually interested in any discussion at all, you just want to be mad and rant. That's dull.

hmm.......because nobody has made general statements about kids in defense for hating them as a people group?

right.

Because they are annoying and usually have poor hygiene.

Kids are just so horribly LOUD! I hated noise already as child. if someone screams I can not stand it and want to get away. So I can not-tolerate those screaming kids, can't I?

Because they run around, screaming at the top of their lungs, making a mess, getting in the way, and if you should dare criticise the little darlings the parents will be down on you like a ton of bricks "they're only children".

What other group does this? If it were adults the police would be called. But it's children, so never mind.

And many teenagers are about as bad, but bigger with it.

But it isn't the vast majority of adults that are sarcastic and self centered. It's probably not more then half at most. But the majority of children are childish.

Children are concentrated evile.

If you don't believe me, ask any small animals unfortunate enough to find themselves at their mercy.

Yes, but they would still find children irritating as the majority of them are immature, unlike adults.

Because being a kid actually has some behavioural connotation. Kids, on the whole, do not act like adults do, and can actually be very intrusive, destructive, or loud.

So I guess it's fair to say I hate intrusive, destructive, or loud people, and kids tend to be all of those things.

Hey, if you paid eight bucks for a steak and a dog ate it, you'd hate it. Even if it was in it's nature, Its your fault for thinking that it'd be okay to eat on the patio.

I believe I said "Repeat offenders" Not whiney little nose gropers.

Why is OK in quotes? That's not "Okay".

I hare children because I hate people in general. Children just happen to represent what most adults suppress; the insatiable urge to be bald-faced fucktards in public.

Children who act up and have tantrums represent what their parents have failed to weed out of them. They are the very image of the parents and the parents' inability to act in a way that makes the world a more tolerable place.

Children are very impressionable and if they see mommy or daddy acting a certain way in public when something doesn't go according to the parent's expectations, the child will learn to think that this is acceptable.

I tend to hate the parent as well as the child when I see this.

It's ok to hate children because it's ok to hate people in general.

Well, the ones that get noticed all act in an obnoxious fashion that draws attention to them in a negative way. I almost never see well behaved children because they are under my line of vision and not doing anything to get my attention. So, I wouldn't know if they were there.

To me, children tend to seem like little brats because they are the ones I see more.

One cannot make a positive assessment when they only see negative behaviour.

pretty much yes. Maybe not to the same extent, but even the shy quiet reserved wouldn't hurt a fly little faerie princess will still shreak like a fucking banshee if the mood particularly strikes her

There are certain behaviors and attitudes that almost all children have. Not true with blacks. Unless they're children.

what behaviors do almost all children have?

what behaviors do almost all children have?

The innate ability to at will shriek like a banshee. :)

That's funny, seeing how in the post you quoted Bottle clearly says "I don't like rude obnoxious kids".

not particularly talking about Bottle here, mostly talking to her.

hmm.......because nobody has made general statements about kids in defense for hating them as a people group?

right.

There's just one little tiny problem with all these examples. They can all be summed up, for the most part, in one simple statement.

Children are immature.

Oh what a horrible thing to say. How unfair. How biased. How dare we suggest immaturity in a group of individuals that are, by definition immature.

That's what "child" means. How idiotic to suggest that calling mexicans lazy or some other stereotype is the same as calling children immature.

Children ARE immature. That's the fucking definition of the word child.

There's just one little tiny problem with all these examples. They can all be summed up, for the most part, in one simple statement.

Children are immature.

Oh what a horrible thing to say. How unfair. How biased. How dare we suggest immaturity in a group of individuals that are, by definition immature.

That's what "child" means. How idiotic to suggest that calling mexicans lazy or some other stereotype is the same as calling children immature.

Children ARE immature. That's the fucking definition of the word child.

I pointed that out earlier... but apparenty valid arguments are not what the OP's looking for.

The innate ability to at will shriek like a banshee. :)

that's not my typical experience with children. I have seen it on T.V. and once or twice at the store.......much more at the hospital when my child was sick, kids tend to scream when you give them a rectal......other than that notsomuch.

what behaviors do almost all children have?Impatience. Their ability to empathize with other creatures is poorly developed. Difficulty listening to and following directions. Short attention spans. Difficulty keeping their voices moderated.

Even good kids like my oldest nephew have the capacity to be major pain in the asses. I realize that yours are uncommonly angelic, but I'm sure even they get on the nerves of those of us who are not kid people.

what behaviors do almost all children have?

immaturity. Which can manifest itself in many ways, typically ones that are annoying to matured individuals who prefer to interact with other mature individuals.

And the fact is, at the end of the day, children are immature, they behave immaturely. That is what children do. That is what the word "child" means.

To suggest that not ALL children are immature is to appear to be one of those damned annoying parents who somehow wants to convice the world that her darling prescious eight year old little princess is oh SO smart and oh SO mature and it's really unfair to classify her budding prodigey with those "other" unwashed masses of children, and it's ok to hate the annoying loud ones, but not her little genius, completely oblivious to the fact that her litle genius is still, at the end of the day, eight years old

maybe it's because I am an immature bitch.

Is that supposed to be flamebait, now? :confused:

I pointed that out earlier... but apparenty valid arguments are not what the OP's looking for.

maybe it's because I am an immature bitch.

maybe it's because I am an immature bitch.

well, if you insist on putting it that way....

Is that supposed to be flamebait, now? :confused:

who would I be flambaiting?

you guys?

you are obviously so mature as to not even notice.

Seriously though, I don't understand people who insist that those who make comments like "children are immature" are as bad as racists or bigots or other mysoginists or the like.

It's stupid. Children ARE immature. That's what it means to be a child. No matter how wonderfully angelic an 8 year old may be, he's still 8, he is immature. That's not bias, that's not bigotry.

That's fucking biology.

"children are immature" is a truism. It's no more racist or biggoted or biased than to say "mammals nurse their young"

Is that supposed to be flamebait, now? :confused:

A sarcastic response to an immature response. Don't tell me that went over your head.

who would I be flambaiting?

you guys?

you are obviously so mature as to not even notice.

see, now this is what bottle is talking about. People disagree with you, how unfair to you. How hurtful to you. How much it must distress you.

How dare we hold a different opinion than you. How dare we insult you by answering your question in a way you didn't want?

It really does promote the belief that you don't want debate, you don't want discussion. You want, at some level, validity. You want people to agree with you. And you get pissy when they don't.

Well, sorry. Not my job to provide you with self validation. You ask a question I answer. Don't agree with my answer? Fine. But don't get all pissy when you don't get the answer you want. It really doesn't bother me any, and just demeans yourself.

Seriously though, I don't understand people who insist that those who make comments like "children are immature" are as bad as racists or bigots or other mysoginists or the like.

It's stupid. Children ARE immature. That's what it means to be a child. No matter how wonderfully angelic an 8 year old may be, he's still 8, he is immature. That's not bias, that's not bigotry.

That's fucking biology.

"children are immature" is a truism. It's no more racist or biggoted or biased than to say "mammals nurse their young"

Because her's aren't, at least that's what she claims. This isn't about kids in general anymore: someone committed the cardinal sin of saying something mean about mama Smunkee's kids and now she has to take it out on everybody that would dare be annoyed at children.

She started by asking "why is it ok to hate children," and was shown how, if anything, it's the reverse. She's ignored it. Later, she pulls up posts that "prove" her point, ignoring that this community is no where near representative of the general populace.

She's brought forward personal experiences, so have we.

She's compared it to racism and was again shown that she was wrong, she's continued asserting that she's correct.

Now she's reduced to flamebaiting. It's sad.

She isn't looking for validation or insight, she wants to rant about "those mean people." She isn't looking to understand, she just wants to denigrate those that don't love her children as much as she does. Bottle has realized it, I've realized it, and I, at least, am thru being her scapegoat, boogeyman, and daemon.

In the end, nothing is going to be solved, she's conviced that we all hate children in the same way a racist hates, for example, blacks. All the while failing to realize that while some of us may express out annoyance, most of us while simply grin and bear it and cut them slack because, deep in our evil little child-hating hearts, we realize one thing:

They're only children.

In the end, nothing is going to be solved, she's conviced that we all hate children in the same way a racist hates, for example, blacks. All the while failing to realize that while some of us may express out annoyance, most of us while simply grin and bear it because, deep in our evil little child-hating hearts, we realize one thing:

They're only children.

With the realization of two more things on top of that:

1) they're only children
2) eventually, they'll grow out of it

and:

3) once, long long ago, so were we.

Which is the point I don't thin she gets. Nobody really hates CHILDREN. Not really. I suppose there are serial child hatters out there like there are racists and mysoginists, but not many.

People hate the BEHAVIOR of children, which is, well, childlike. We hate the crying baby on the bus. We hate the 7 year old twins playing tag in the aisle of the airplane. We hate the toddler having a tantrum on the floor of the supermarket because daddy won't buy him icecream.

We hate what children do. It annoys us. We hate that they don't care about the noise they make. We hate that they don't care about the disturbance they cause. We hate that they don't care that they're disrupting other people. We hate that they just won't fucking stop.

And most of all on top of all that, we also hate smug self righteous parents who for some reason think that THEIR children are somehow excused from the truths of biology and psychology. They think that THEIR children are different, that THEIR children are better. They think this, just like every other parent thinks their wholly unremarkable children are somehow magically not childlike.

But at the end of the day, it's ok, we put up with it. Because, they're children. It's the parents who really should know better and come to their senses that your little angel is terrorizing everyone around him, and to shut him the hell up.

The personal attacks are a nice touch.

Very good, Neo.

Yes, I understand that the majority will one day be adults. But until then, I want to be where they're not.

on families pressuring one to have kids:

My wife and I both have no desire to have kids at all. We are both quickly annoyed by children and would rather not have to deal with them. Babysitting is a nightmare for both of us.

My wifes parents have several kids and they keep pushing us to have them. It's kinds funny because all of their kids are childfree except one of their daughters who adopted two kids. To her parents it looks like my wife and I are their last hope for a grandchild with genetic material that matches their own. Unbeknownst to them, I got snipped. HAH! Although, since my wife went thru chemotherapy, there's a chance that the treatment made her infertile, so we are bankign on that to get her family to shut up about it, and mostly they have.

So my wifes sister, who adopted, won't shut up about us having to have kids. My wife is too nice to tell her to zip it. I was so fucking annoyed the other day when she said something like "You guys need to have kids. Nothing brings two people together like having a child to take care of. You can't really know your spouse fully until you do". BULLSHIT! She's lucky I can hold my tongue.

"You guys need to have kids. Nothing brings two people together like having a child to take care of. You can't really know your spouse fully until you do". BULLSHIT! She's lucky I can hold my tongue.

that is bull shit. I agree.

that is bull shit. I agree.

And since she adopted she isn't even a real mother anyway.













LOL! KIDDING!

And since she adopted she isn't even a real mother anyway.













LOL! KIDDING!

:eek::p


If adding more people to your house has any effect it's only to add stress an conflict, this counts for children, roommates, etc.

hey smunkee, do you want me to jump back in on your side or have you had enough?

it seems that its impossible to get these people to understand that it is bigotry to deny millions the right to public access based on the behavior of a minority.

hey smunkee, do you want me to jump back in on your side or have you had enough?

it seems that its impossible to get these people to understand that it is bigotry to deny millions the right to public access based on the behavior of a minority.

jump all you want, I don't think they will listen.

bigotry is only okay when it's your own personal brand apparently. ;)

:eek::p


If adding more people to your house has any effect it's only to add stress an conflict, this counts for children, roommates, etc.



That's exactly what I was thinking.

jump all you want, I don't think they will listen.

bigotry is only okay when it's your own personal brand apparently. ;)

im not really interested in making the same point over and over again. i just hate to see you be set upon from all sides without help.

hey smunkee, do you want me to jump back in on your side or have you had enough?

it seems that its impossible to get these people to understand that it is bigotry to deny millions the right to public access based on the behavior of a minority.

In case you haven't noticed, most of us have simply stated we hate children. We are not saying that they should be barred from being in public, spare for maybe one or two nutters.

Smunkeeville, perhaps it’s not my place to say, but it seems like you’re expending a lot of energy on letting this bother you for little return. How do you tell your kids to deal with other children who they don’t see eye to eye with? I have to tell my kids – geez it seems like at least once a week – hey, not everyone plays nice and will agree with you on everything. You can either decide to deal with their behavior, learn from it, and take it for whatever value you find in it or you can choose to not hang out with them. One way, you might be irritated periodically, but learn something about yourself and others, and the other, you might be very happy but very lonely.

So what if it seems to you like people have irrational reasons to hate children? Yes, they probably hate your children, and they’d hate mine too. Oh well. I don’t go out into the world expecting everyone to think that my kids are as endlessly fascinating as I do. And that’s okay, honestly, because it keeps my kids humble, and lets them know that only way they’re ever going to make a difference is through their actions and words. Not enough adults know how to do that, much less children. You’re never going to convince people who hate kids to not hate them, however they or you define hate. They’ve come to their decision, and we’ve come to ours. It hurts like hell to see people judge your children when they know not a thing about them, but it’s far more satisfying when someone acknowledges your kids doing something right. I know my kids aren't reckless screaming brats, and frankly, that's good enough for me.

Look, it’s hard enough being a parent. Especially a mother, cause hell knows the media loves to pit us against each other – stay at home moms vs. working moms, single moms vs. married moms, public school moms vs. homeschool moms…all that garbage. Oh and women in general – well we just love to see a good catfight between mothers and women who’ve chosen to not have kids. Now add to all that useless discourse everyone, male or female, who doesn’t like kids vs. parents who love their kids. Seriously at some point, all of us who care about kids have say that enough is enough – we’re sick of the battles, we’re sick of the snotty remarks, we have to recognize that we’re doing the best we can with what we have and raise our kids to work to be better people than most of the people, adults or children, that they’ll encounter.

And since she adopted she isn't even a real mother anyway.


you probably should forget that you thought up that line in case you say it back to her the next time she says something stupid to you.

In case you haven't noticed, most of us have simply stated we hate children. We are not saying that they should be barred from being in public, spare for maybe one or two nutters.

if the shoe doesnt fit, dont wear it.

and

if anyone stated the blanket hatred of any other large group of human beings, they would also be given a ration of shit for it.

it seems that its impossible to get these people to understand that it is bigotry to deny millions the right to public access

Which "these people"? Who qualifies as "these people"? Who are "these people"? Please point out who said children should actually be kept out of public?


based on the behavior of a minority.

Did you just say that the minority of children behave like children? That seems pretty stupid.

if the shoe doesnt fit, dont wear it.

If the shoe doesn't fit anyone, why bother talking about it?

you probably should forget that you thought up that line in case you say it back to her the next time she says something stupid to you.


Hah, I've gotten pretty good at keeping my malicious outburts under control. There was a time when I would say the first damaging thing that came into my head. Plus, my sister-in-law is not someone to mess with.

If the shoe doesn't fit anyone, why bother talking about it?

the shoe fits plenty of people. if YOU dont want to keep children out of restaurants, dont think that i am accusing you of it. if you DO want to keep children out of restaurants you are a bigot.

I don't really hate kids. I hate parents who let them turn into nasy little monsters. I hate going into restaurants and listening to them scream. I hate having the little spawns of Satan stare at me over the back of the booth seat while I'm eating. I hate having them run unchecked all over the restaurant, up to and including coming to my booth and touching me and my food and even asking impertinent questions. I hate shopping in stores and watching them pull stuff off shelves and putting their grubby hands on merchandise. I hate having them running all over the place while not watching where they're going, tripping people and damaging things. I hate the parents who haven't taught their get how to act in public.

who would I be flambaiting?

you guys?

you are obviously so mature as to not even notice.
Well, this certainly explains something. If "maturity" to you means "unable to notice the obvious," then I guess your standards for the maturity of your children make much more sense.

the shoe fits plenty of people. if YOU dont want to keep children out of restaurants, dont think that i am accusing you of it. if you DO want to keep children out of restaurants you are a bigot.
Bunk.

I want to keep small children out of porno theaters, too. Am I a bigot? I want to keep small children out of jury rooms. I want to keep small children out of the Gross Anatomy lab. Heck, I want to keep children out of MY lab, considering all the sharp, poisonous, or on-fire items one finds therein.

I don't want to keep adults out of any of those places. In some cases, I actively ENCOURAGE adults to go into the very spaces that I would deny to children.

Am I a bigot?

Of course not. Because those are standards that you agree with. Which means, by definition, they must be reasonable and non-bigoted. But if I start proposing that children be kept out of places that you don't personally agree with, that is the point at which I become a bigot. Because "bigotry" means "holding an opinion other than the one held by the person in the room who has the most tender feelings."

Which "these people"? Who qualifies as "these people"? Who are "these people"? Please point out who said children should actually be kept out of public?




Did you just say that the minority of children behave like children? That seems pretty stupid.
Quoted for two helpings of truth.

I don't know a single person, not ONE, who thinks children should always be kept out of public. And I hang out with a crowd of childless misanthropes.

Some people think children should be able to go anywhere and everywhere. Playing in the middle of a construction site? Go for it, Little Jimmy! The world should stop around you so that you can play and be free! Baby wants to see what's going on in the diner's kitchen? Hell yes you can play right next to the grill! If you get hurt it's because the cruel world didn't respect your youthful exuberance!

I think everybody on this thread can agree that the attitude of "kids should be able to go anywhere adults go" is crap. It's dangerous and irresponsible, precisely because children SHOULD NOT BE EXPECTED to function on the same level as adults. It's dangerous and cruel for any parent to expect their 3 year old to have adult judgment, coordination, and experience.

So we all agree that children DON'T get to go wherever adults go. Beyond that, we're simply disagreeing on which spaces should be adults-only and which should not. To claim that some of us are bigots because we have different standards for child-appropriateness is beyond silly.

Because they're irritatingly cheerful, loud, raucous and have tendancy to run into you without watching where the fuck they're going, and spill ice cream down you.

They also scream, cry and throw tantrums in public, invariably at the most inconvenient place and time, and generally annoy the holy fuck out of me.

I don't hate kids. I hate the way a lot of kids act, but this I blame on the parents lacking the skills to adequately teach their children to act like human beings instead of little monsters.

I do think that having a child-free restaurant isn't a bad idea though. I mean, last thing I want if I'm on a date somewhere nice is a brat screaming its head off because its parents can't keep it quiet. But this is why I go to restaurants that don't serve kid-friendly food (well... except one time I went for sushi and some family was there... that was awful... fuck... bringing picky eaters who have no sense to not cry and throw a tantrum to sushi restaurants is the stupidest thing a parent can do) I'm also not opposed to dispensing tranquilizers to children on airplanes if they're going to cry the entire time.

I do think that having a child-free restaurant isn't a bad idea though. I mean, last thing I want if I'm on a date somewhere nice is a brat screaming its head off because its parents can't keep it quiet. But this is why I go to restaurants that don't serve kid-friendly food (well... except one time I went for sushi and some family was there... that was awful... fuck... bringing picky eaters who have no sense to not cry and throw a tantrum to sushi restaurants is the stupidest thing a parent can do) I'm also not opposed to dispensing tranquilizers to children on airplanes if they're going to cry the entire time.
Yet another example of how "age discrimination" is not remotely comparable to racism.

Proposing that there be "black restaurants" and "white restaurants" is racist (and illegal). But proposing that there be "kids' restaurants" and "adult restaurants" is just good sense. Kids are kids, and it's stupid to expect them to be adults.

I think it's great to have establishments that cater to children. I used to take my kid brother to this dinner theater place that showed kid movies and served all the kid favorite foods, and it was a blast. They had three different sizes of chairs for the tables there, to accommodate adults, big kids, and little kids, without having to use booster seats...my brother loved it because he could sit at the table just like a grown up.

I think it's also great to have adults-only establishments, so that folks who want a kid-free night out can choose to go to those places. Heaven knows, my parents sometimes needed nights like that! They intentionally chose to spend their "date nights" at restaurants that did not allow children, because the whole point was to get away from the kids for a few precious hours. Even the best parents need a break sometimes.

I think it's also great to have adults-only establishments, so that folks who want a kid-free night out can choose to go to those places. Heaven knows, my parents sometimes needed nights like that! They intentionally chose to spend their "date nights" at restaurants that did not allow children, because the whole point was to get away from the kids for a few precious hours. Even the best parents need a break sometimes.

Which is why you don't go to Denny's for that romantic night out. You know damn well, it's going to have children in it. After all, it's a family restaurant. That's why you go to Chez LeSnob. You expect the patrons to be quiet and mild-mannered with no children around.

There are plenty of kid-friendly places. So why can't there be adult-friendly places?

Which is why you don't go to Denny's for that romantic night out. You know damn well, it's going to have children in it. After all, it's a family restaurant. That's why you go to Chez LeSnob. You expect the patrons to be quiet and mild-mannered with no children around.

There are plenty of kid-friendly places. So why can't there be adult-friendly places?
Because, um, that would be bigotry, and is the same as having whites-only restaurants...or something...

Because, um, that would be bigotry, and is the same as having whites-only restaurants...or something...

Oh of course. How silly of me. :)

Yet another example of how "age discrimination" is not remotely comparable to racism.

Proposing that there be "black restaurants" and "white restaurants" is racist (and illegal). But proposing that there be "kids' restaurants" and "adult restaurants" is just good sense. Kids are kids, and it's stupid to expect them to be adults.

I think it's great to have establishments that cater to children. I used to take my kid brother to this dinner theater place that showed kid movies and served all the kid favorite foods, and it was a blast. They had three different sizes of chairs for the tables there, to accommodate adults, big kids, and little kids, without having to use booster seats...my brother loved it because he could sit at the table just like a grown up.

I think it's also great to have adults-only establishments, so that folks who want a kid-free night out can choose to go to those places. Heaven knows, my parents sometimes needed nights like that! They intentionally chose to spend their "date nights" at restaurants that did not allow children, because the whole point was to get away from the kids for a few precious hours. Even the best parents need a break sometimes.
nice strawman. I didn't say there shouldn't be any adult places, I said that it annoys me when adults are rude to children in public places......but you know, whatever makes you feel good about treating other people shitty.

Um...the largest strawman in this entire thread is comparing age discrimination to racism. Age has an inherent effect on the way a person acts and thinks, as well as being an experience that every single human being on the planet shares. Race entails neither of those things.

I think that's the biggest opposition you're seeing in this debate. Should people be dicks to children or the elderly premised on the simple fact that they are such? No, and I don't think a single person in this thread is advocating that. Does feeling uncomfortable around children or the elderly equate to being racist? Also no, because such a comparison is logically invalid.

nice strawman. I didn't say there shouldn't be any adult places, I said that it annoys me when adults are rude to children in public places

You may notice I wasn't quoting you. Or responding directly to you. Or constructing a straw man argument and claiming you were making it.

Seriously, do I need to dust off my old "Straw Man Does Not Mean What You Think It Means" post again? This is the third time in two days somebody has incorrectly accused me of employing a straw man.


......but you know, whatever makes you feel good about treating other people shitty.
Please highlight the "shitty" behavior in the post of mine that you quoted.

Please highlight the "shitty" behavior in the post of mine that you quoted.

"Shittily" is the correct form of the adverb there.

You may notice I wasn't quoting you. Or responding directly to you. Or constructing a straw man argument and claiming you were making it.

Seriously, do I need to dust off my old "Straw Man Does Not Mean What You Think It Means" post again? This is the third time in two days somebody has incorrectly accused me of employing a straw man.


Please highlight the "shitty" behavior in the post of mine that you quoted.

meh. You aren't even the person I am mad at, and I am tired of being a bitch this week.......friends?

the shoe fits plenty of people. if YOU dont want to keep children out of restaurants, dont think that i am accusing you of it. if you DO want to keep children out of restaurants you are a bigot.

If they can behave themselves, I have little objection. Many of them can't. At the first sign of behaving like a little savage, the management should toss them out. Unless you're at Chucky Cheese.

The majority of children are childish, being childish is annoying.
The majority of children are childish, being childish is annoying.
The majority of children are childish, being childish is annoying.
The majority of children are childish, being childish is annoying.
The majority of children are childish, being childish is annoying.
The majority of children are childish, being childish is annoying.
The majority of children are childish, being childish is annoying.
The majority of children are childish, being childish is annoying.
The majority of children are childish, being childish is annoying.
The majority of children are childish, being childish is annoying.
The majority of children are childish, being childish is annoying.
The majority of children are childish, being childish is annoying.
The majority of children are childish, being childish is annoying.
The majority of children are childish, being childish is annoying.
The majority of children are childish, being childish is annoying.
The majority of children are childish, being childish is annoying.
The majority of children are childish, being childish is annoying.
......

How many times does it have to be said!

Yes it's a generalisation. So what? There is no rule that means that all generalisations are false.

If they can behave themselves, I have little objection. Many of them can't. At the first sign of behaving like a little savage, the management should toss them out. Unless you're at Chucky Cheese.

This is precisely why there are restaurants that are family friendly. So you have a place to bring the little blighter. You don't bring them to a place that is meant to be more for adults. It's not bigotry; it's simply picking your target demographic. I agree with you here.

If this was about video games, the average parent would NOT let little Suzy or little Billy play a PG13 game. So why are public venues different? Why do I have to hear a child scream at the top of his/her lungs when I'm trying to enjoy an expensive meal at an upscale restaurant that is obviously not a family restaurant?

There are places that are made for children and those for adults and those for everyone. Pick the right place for you and don't whine when other adults condemn you for bringing children into an environment that is strictly an adult one.

This is not bigotry. This is simply just a matter of there is a time and place for family and one for just adults.

If this was about video games, the average parent would NOT let little Suzy or little Billy play a PG13 game. So why are public venues different? Why do I have to hear a child scream at the top of his/her lungs when I'm trying to enjoy an expensive meal at an upscale restaurant that is obviously not a family restaurant?

There are places that are made for children and those for adults and those for everyone. Pick the right place for you and don't whine when other adults condemn you for bringing children into an environment that is strictly an adult one.

Absolutely. I can remember being at a Sunday brunch at an upscale restuarant with my husband. A family only a few yards away had a toddler who was pushing a younger child around the establishment at breakneck speeds with them both squealing. The parents did nothing. Fortunately another diner called the parents to account before I had firmly decided on whether to strangle the parents or the kids. (on further reflection, the parents, who should know better, get my vote) The parents were extremely offended that someone called them to account.

But even well behaved children are louder and more active than many a relaxing adult wants to be with. Those of us who have decided not to have children, as well as those who left them at home, have a right to a childless sanctuary. If I wanted to have kids around, I'd have had them. Or at least babysit occasionally.

It's okay to hate anyone for any reason.

How people perceive you based on your reasoning, is a different matter.

Absolutely. I can remember being at a Sunday brunch at an upscale restuarant with my husband. A family only a few yards away had a toddler who was pushing a younger child around the establishment at breakneck speeds with them both squealing. The parents did nothing. Fortunately another diner called the parents to account before I had firmly decided on whether to strangle the parents or the kids. (on further reflection, the parents, who should know better, get my vote) The parents were extremely offended that someone called them to account.

But even well behaved children are louder and more active than many a relaxing adult wants to be with. Those of us who have decided not to have children, as well as those who left them at home, have a right to a childless sanctuary. If I wanted to have kids around, I'd have had them. Or at least babysit occasionally.


Despite only being 18, I quite agree.

Incidentally, an anecdote regarding restaurants, and a question;

This Tuesday, my parents, regrettably alive brother and I stopped at an "upmarket" restaurant in the peak district for a meal, and, as nice as the restaurant and food were, the experiance was ruined by a raucous family of scousers, all of whom found their 13 year old son playing a variety of crap music, or unsavoury videos, upon his mobile phone to be highly entertaining. After half an hour so, I asked them to stop, and was told by said scouse bastards to "mind my own fockin' business".

Was I correct to ask the family to stop?

It's okay to hate anyone for any reason.

How people perceive you based on your reasoning, is a different matter.

And that works until you're talking about someone's little "precious angel who can do no wrong" while the rest of the children give the little precious a bad name. ;)