NationStates Jolt Archive

Generally, though, people recognize sexual attraction when they feel it.

Ok. I was wondering about that. Thank you. That post was helpful. :)

Generally, though, people recognize sexual attraction when they feel it.

Or when their restraining order tells them they can't have it any more. :(
Kidding, by the way. Just so's you know.

Ok. I was wondering about that. Thank you. That post was helpful. :)

Well, as someone who is in the habit of celibacy (though I had sex a moderate amount in my twenties) I do think about the subject quite a bit.

I was going to talk about my own experience, but trying to put it into words made me a lot more doubtful about my own decision. It was coming out rather confused and not just a little bit creepy.

There is a real difference between celibacy and asexuality, and it seems to me that a lot of the 'asexuals' who post on aven are really celibates.

Or when their restraining order tells them they can't have it any more. :(
Kidding, by the way. Just so's you know.

That's what I mean by creepy, yep. :D

Really, though, I'm not a violent person. I just don't particularly like it when people tell me that they think I'm attractive, but I've been getting better at dealing with it.

I know. The news report was just too good to pass up. It's made more funny by the fact that you're a very nonchalant, very amiable person - imagining you going into a psychotic rage when someone compliments your looks is just too good.

What he said. It's funny because you're not a violent person.

By the way Asexual refers to a creature who doesnt need separate partners to reproduce, biologically speaking, such as some flowers, a creature lacking in sexual organs or refers to a specific term, such as an asexual relationship i.e. platonic or familial. Since a) you do need another partner as all humans do to reproduce b) I presume you have sexual organs and c) you are not a noun, I dispute that the term asexual can be used to describe the orientation of a person at all.However Im open to be taught otherwise.

Asexual can be used in both ways, although it is always an adjective.

I guess you people are lucky in a way...

Got to focus on Literature now... = (

What he said. It's funny because you're not a violent person.


Ok. That's what I thought.:)

Oh by the way Cabbage Patch Girl, seems to me thatyou just have an aversion to sex in general. Are you struggling to come to terms by the thought of your parents doing it? I wasnt trying to be mean or anything. I just think it is the reseult of a psychological condition and not some predetermined sexual orientation in your genes. It would be contradicting the fundamental laws of the universe.Its is inherent in every living thing to want to reproduce.Thats what we're driven to, thats what life is.An asexual being which depends on sex for the species to survive is a freak of nature and basically impossible.it would be like gravity suddenly disappearing.While a person cant help who they are attracted to, hetero or homo, the thought that they would not be attracted to either sex is abhorrent to nature.


Seeing as how you are a literate educated girl mayeb you should just read up on it.I suggest you start in the psychology section.Freud probably.

I think I'll just refer to you as Holden then.

You know, I finally figured out what is bugging me about that website, and it took me a while, but I got it. It subtly puts forward a very dangerous attitude of victimization.

The idea of "hey, you're asexual and that's OK, and don't listen to ANYONE who tells you that you should go to a doctor or a psychiatrist, they're just trying to change you and you don't need changing. You're fine the way you are, and it's their problem, they don't understand!" And that's dangerous.

Asexuality, TRUE asexuality, defined as the total lack of sexual attraction, while at the same time not caused by an underlying physicial or psychological problem, is very rare.

Frankly speaking, asexuality like behavior is often symptomatic of larger physical or social problems. And this attitude of anyone who suggests otherwise is just trying to fix you has come out in your own posts. It's not that anyone has any interest in "fixing" you, but many recognize that such behavior is often symptomatic of larger problems. Hormonal deficiency, thyroid problems, repressed homosexuality, repressed childhood abuse, etc. etc. etc. There are a ton of things that can cause asexuality like behavior to manifest, and NONE of it is "ok".

Even your own behavior. You said you don't like people who think you're attractive and try your best to make yourself look unattractive. Gee, that doesn't sound like an underlying psychological problem that in no way relates to feeling like you don't want sex, which, in the end, is a pure expression of attraction. Nothing what so ever. :rolleyes:

Frankly speaking, that attitude, the attitude this site displays, and the attitude you've put forward, is not only unwise, it's downright dangerous. It's like telling someone with a irregular oddly colored lump on his skin that he's not sick just because he is different, and anyone who tells him otherwise is just trying to fix him, and he really shouldn't listen to them, because he's fine the way he is.

Sure, he might be fine the way he is. he might be perfectly normal and healthy and in no way have any medical problem, and not in the slightest bit need of change.

Or, he could have fucking cancer.

<snip>

You might have a point. But you're still comparing mental issues to cancer. If ignored mental issues may have very little effect. Cancer will kill you. It's a bit of a flawed comparison.

You might have a point. But you're still comparing mental issues to cancer. If ignored mental issues may have very little effect. Cancer will kill you. It's a bit of a flawed comparison.

The flawed part of this post is the belief that ignoring mental problems will typically have little effect.

It doesn't.

Depends on the problem. For example I'm borderline OC, it doesn't usually cause problems and when it does they're only minor or the sort of thing I don't care about. I was more playing Devil's Advocate than anything else. Because I like playing Devil's Advocate, I'm sure that someone around here has seen me rip apart my own argument seconds after presenting it before.

ah, but at least you have been diagnosed with OC (or at least came to that revelation) and thus know what causes those problems, what triggers them, and when to expect them and how to deal with them.

If you were totally unaware of the OC, or the affect it was having on you, would it be so little of a problem?

The flawed part of this post is the belief that ignoring mental problems will typically have little effect.

It doesn't.

Depends on the problem. For example I'm borderline OC, it doesn't usually cause problems and when it does they're only minor or the sort of thing I don't care about. I was more playing Devil's Advocate than anything else. Because I like playing Devil's Advocate, I'm sure that someone around here has seen me rip apart my own argument seconds after presenting it before.

You know, I finally figured out what is bugging me about that website, and it took me a while, but I got it. It subtly puts forward a very dangerous attitude of victimization.

The idea of "hey, you're asexual and that's OK, and don't listen to ANYONE who tells you that you should go to a doctor or a psychiatrist, they're just trying to change you and you don't need changing. You're fine the way you are, and it's their problem, they don't understand!" And that's dangerous.

Asexuality, TRUE asexuality, defined as the total lack of sexual attraction, while at the same time not caused by an underlying physicial or psychological problem, is very rare.

Frankly speaking, asexuality like behavior is often symptomatic of larger physical or social problems. And this attitude of anyone who suggests otherwise is just trying to fix you has come out in your own posts. It's not that anyone has any interest in "fixing" you, but many recognize that such behavior is often symptomatic of larger problems. Hormonal deficiency, thyroid problems, repressed homosexuality, repressed childhood abuse, etc. etc. etc. There are a ton of things that can cause asexuality like behavior to manifest, and NONE of it is "ok".

Even your own behavior. You said you don't like people who think you're attractive and try your best to make yourself look unattractive. Gee, that doesn't sound like an underlying psychological problem that in no way relates to feeling like you don't want sex, which, in the end, is a pure expression of attraction. Nothing what so ever. :rolleyes:

Frankly speaking, that attitude, the attitude this site displays, and the attitude you've put forward, is not only unwise, it's downright dangerous. It's like telling someone with a irregular oddly colored lump on his skin that he's not sick just because he is different, and anyone who tells him otherwise is just trying to fix him, and he really shouldn't listen to them, because he's fine the way he is.

Sure, he might be fine the way he is. he might be perfectly normal and healthy and in no way have any medical problem, and not in the slightest bit need of change.

Or, he could have fucking cancer.

You really think my lack of attraction is comparable to cancer?:rolleyes:

I've sought help for the problems I've had like trying to make myself unattractive and stuff like that. Just thought I'd make it easier for people to not waste their time on being attracted to me when there is no chance that I can return it, but now I know that if they're attracted to me it's their fault, not mine, and I can't control it. That kind of makes it even more frightening. I can't stop them from having dirty thoughts about me and basically wanting to rape me even if it's not on a conscious level (which is what it seems like sexual attraction is if it's about someone who doesn't want someone to be attracted to them, if people have thoughts about having sex with people, even if people usually don't act on it.)

And actually they've gotten a lot better. I don't really try to make myself unattractive anymore. I'll even wear shirts that actually fit me from time to time instead of only wearing extra large shirts that obscure me, and sometimes when I look in the mirror I've even thought that I look sort of nice or something. But I still haven't magically started feeling attracted to people, and that shouldn't be the goal of the therapy. It should be to deal with my issues so that I don't have to live in fear, not so that I'll be forced to feel things that I don't feel and do things that I don't want to do.

[...]
I suggest you start in the psychology section.Freud probably.
[...]

OK. Let's discuss the writings of Freud.
Pick a book.

...er, I assume you wouldn't recommend a book you haven't read, right ?

You really think my lack of attraction is comparable to cancer?:rolleyes:

And once again we see the defensiveness of it. Frankly speaking, if that lack of attraction is caused by a thyroid problem or a hormonal imbalance or similar factors...yeah, it may be. If that lack of attraction is caused by some underlying psychological issues or trauma that, if left not dealt with will continue to have ramifications through out your adult life...yeah, it may be.

That kind of makes it even more frightening. I can't stop them from having dirty thoughts about me and basically wanting to rape me even if it's not on a conscious level (which is what it seems like sexual attraction is if it's about someone who doesn't want someone to be attracted to them, if people have thoughts about having sex with people, even if people usually don't act on it.)

You intentionally try to make yourself unattractive because the idea of someone being attracted to you frightens you because you relate that to an unconcious desire to rape you?

Oh yeah, that doesn't sound like an underlying psychological problem AT ALL.

But I still haven't magically started feeling attracted to people, and that shouldn't be the goal of the therapy. It should be to deal with my issues so that I don't have to live in fear, not so that I'll be forced to feel things that I don't feel and do things that I don't want to do.

And you don't think that maybe, juuuuuust maybe, the overal lack of attraction to people is symptomatic of your underlying psychological problems, and that they are directly interconnected, and by trying to seperate the two is fundamentally doing you a disservice?

You don't think these issues that cause you to "live in fear" are manifesting in a lack of sexual desire? you don't see how these thingss are directly connected? You don't think that as long as you try to seperate those two issues and deal with one but not the other that you are ultimitly risking the affectiveness of your therapy?

Seriously, this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. I don't think you are asexual at all, not even in the slightest bit. I think, however, that you're a young girl who, for whatever reasons, has developed a pathological fear of intimacy. That fear of intimacy manifests both as a fear of others being attracted to you AND a fear of you being attracted to others. These are BOTH symptomatic of an underlying psychological problem.

Your "asexuality" isn't natural. It isn't "ok". It isn't something that's just fine. It's the result of a deeply rooted psychological problem, caused by god knows what. And as long as you keep denying that part, and recognize that whatever caused this is affecting BOTH how you deal with incomming attraction AS WELL AS your ability to form outgoing attraction your therapy will not be successful.

You're right, therapy is about learning to deal with problems, and it seems abundantly clear to me that this "asexuality" is caused by a root psychological problem. And I think you are doing yoruself a disservice, and this website has done you a disservice, by convincing you that you're "just fine" and that this isn't a problem to deal with.

Yes, it's a serious problem. When someone is terrified of someone being attracted to them, that's a problem. When the same psychological root that cuases this also leads one to repress any desire that individual may have, this is ALSO a problem, and deeply mentally unhealthy.

And frankly speaking I think it's time you admit that to yourself. And if thread is about your mother's attempts at trying to get you to do that (in an admittedly clumsy fashion) rather than simply "accept" what is obvious to me a deeply rooted psychological issue, then good for your mother.

And once again we see the defensiveness of it. Frankly speaking, if that lack of attraction is caused by a thyroid problem or a hormonal imbalance or similar factors...yeah, it may be. If that lack of attraction is caused by some underlying psychological issues or trauma that, if left not dealt with will continue to have ramifications through out your adult life...yeah, it may be.


You intentionally try to make yourself unattractive because the idea of someone being attracted to you frightens you because you relate that to an unconcious desire to rape you?

Oh yeah, that doesn't sound like an underlying psychological problem AT ALL.


And you don't think that maybe, juuuuuust maybe, the overal lack of attraction to people is symptomatic of your underlying psychological problems, and that they are directly interconnected, and by trying to seperate the two is fundamentally doing you a disservice?

You don't think these issues that cause you to "live in fear" are manifesting in a lack of sexual desire? you don't see how these thingss are directly connected? You don't think that as long as you try to seperate those two issues and deal with one but not the other that you are ultimitly risking the affectiveness of your therapy?

Seriously, this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. I don't think you are asexual at all, not even in the slightest bit. I think, however, that you're a young girl who, for whatever reasons, has developed a pathological fear of intimacy. That fear of intimacy manifests both as a fear of others being attracted to you AND a fear of you being attracted to others. These are BOTH symptomatic of an underlying psychological problem.

Your "asexuality" isn't natural. It isn't "ok". It isn't something that's just fine. It's the result of a deeply rooted psychological problem, caused by god knows what. And as long as you keep denying that part, and recognize that whatever caused this is affecting BOTH how you deal with incomming attraction AS WELL AS your ability to form outgoing attraction your therapy will not be successful.

You're right, therapy is about learning to deal with problems, and it seems abundantly clear to me that this "asexuality" is caused by a root psychological problem. And I think you are doing yoruself a disservice, and this website has done you a disservice, by convincing you that you're "just fine" and that this isn't a problem to deal with.

Yes, it's a serious problem. When someone is terrified of someone being attracted to them, that's a problem. When the same psychological root that cuases this also leads one to repress any desire that individual may have, this is ALSO a problem, and deeply mentally unhealthy.

And frankly speaking I think it's time you admit that to yourself. And if thread is about your mother's attempts at trying to get you to do that (in an admittedly clumsy fashion) rather than simply "accept" what is obvious to me a deeply rooted psychological issue, then good for your mother.

I shouldn't be forced to be attracted to people just because most other people are. I don't want to be given hormone therapy or something like that against my will, and it seems like that's what you're suggesting, which is why I get defensive.

I used to intentionally try to make myself unattractive. I don't anymore. Therapy helped me with that, as it as helped me get over other problems. And if people are thinking of me in a sexual way (which I don't know whether they do or not), I don't see how that's any different then them thinking of raping me, becuase they should know I wouldn't consent to any sexual activity. So after all of my issues are dealt with and I still haven't been attracted to anyone, I know you'll still think that my asexuality is a problem. I don't.

I'm not going to let you or anyone else try to force me into sexual activity just because you think that I should be made to be like everyone else against my will.

I'm not terrified of people being attracted to me anymore. I know that it's not something that I'm supposed to control, or that I can control, so I've stopped letting it bother me.

And what qualifies you to somehow know that I do have repressed desires, that I didn't just develop without them?

I shouldn't be forced to be attracted to people just because most other people are. I don't want to be given hormone therapy or something like that against my will, and it seems like that's what you're suggesting, which is why I get defensive.

No, that's what you try to read into it, which seems to be the case anyone dares to suggest that MAYBE it may be the cause of some underlying problem.

Which is exactly what I said, victim mentality. YOU came here and made a thread about YOUR sexuality (or lack thereof) and when some people suggest that, hey, maybe there's something underlyingly wrong, YOU got defensive.

I'm not going to let you or anyone else try to force me into sexual activity just because you think that I should be made to be like everyone else against my will.

And here it is again. YOU are the only one creating the link that someone discussing that your asexuality may have an underlying cause is now somehow trying to FORCE you into it.

This is YOUR defensive attitude, this is YOUR reading of any time (and this thread isn't the first time) that anyone mentions that you MIGHT consider trying to get therapy FOR THIS REASON that now suddenly you're being forced into it.

Frankly speaking if your immediate reaction to a helpful suggestion is to believe that someone is now trying to force you into having sex against your will, then this furthers my hypothesis.

I also note that this is the second time you've made reference to the idea of someone forcing sex on you. Either someone mentally raping you, or a third party forcing you into it against your will. Your imagery of sex and intimacy is extraordinarily violent.

And what qualifies you to somehow know that I do have repressed desires, that I didn't just develop without them?

Me? I'm just some schmuck on a web board. A web board, however, that YOU came to to discuss your sexuality.

To the original poster: don't worry, you'll soon grow out of it.

No, that's what you try to read into it, which seems to be the case anyone dares to suggest that MAYBE it may be the cause of some underlying problem.

Which is exactly what I said, victim mentality. YOU came here and made a thread about YOUR sexuality (or lack thereof) and when some people suggest that, hey, maybe there's something underlyingly wrong, YOU got defensive.



And here it is again. YOU are the only one creating the link that someone discussing that your asexuality may have an underlying cause is now somehow trying to FORCE you into it.

This is YOUR defensive attitude, this is YOUR reading of any time (and this thread isn't the first time) that anyone mentions that you MIGHT consider trying to get therapy FOR THIS REASON that now suddenly you're being forced into it.

Frankly speaking if your immediate reaction to a helpful suggestion is to believe that someone is now trying to force you into having sex against your will, then this furthers my hypothesis.

I also note that this is the second time you've made reference to the idea of someone forcing sex on you. Either someone mentally raping you, or a third party forcing you into it against your will. Your imagery of sex and intimacy is extraordinarily violent.



Me? I'm just some schmuck on a web board. A web board, however, that YOU came to to discuss your sexuality.

Why else would you try to tell me that the way I feel is possibly as dangerous as cancer if you weren't trying to force me to change? I'm sorry if I misinterpreted what you were saying, but none if it sounded like a "helpful suggestion". All of it seemed to be saying that there was no chance that there isn't something wrong with me. You seem to be saying that I should go to therapy so that I will have sex and be "like everyone else".

If I was forced into sex, it would be rape. So if people are thinking of me in sexual ways even knowing that I wouldn't consent, it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to say that it means that they're thinking of raping me.

But I'm not really so much afraid of people being attracted to me anymore. But I don't consider a post a "helpful suggestion" if everything in it is basically trying to convince me that I am broken. And it certainly seemed like that's what you were saying.

I shouldn't be forced to be attracted to people just because most other people are. I don't want to be given hormone therapy or something like that against my will, and it seems like that's what you're suggesting, which is why I get defensive.

I used to intentionally try to make myself unattractive. I don't anymore. Therapy helped me with that, as it as helped me get over other problems. And if people are thinking of me in a sexual way (which I don't know whether they do or not), I don't see how that's any different then them thinking of raping me, becuase they should know I wouldn't consent to any sexual activity. So after all of my issues are dealt with and I still haven't been attracted to anyone, I know you'll still think that my asexuality is a problem. I don't.

I'm not going to let you or anyone else try to force me into sexual activity just because you think that I should be made to be like everyone else against my will.

I'm not terrified of people being attracted to me anymore. I know that it's not something that I'm supposed to control, or that I can control, so I've stopped letting it bother me.

And what qualifies you to somehow know that I do have repressed desires, that I didn't just develop without them?


Chandy, I appreciate your position and I would never suggest that asexuality doesn't happen naturally, that it's unhealthy and certainly I would begin to suggest that I know how or why it happened in you. Remember that as you read the rest.

Now, imagine I was posting on here talking about gay men as mentally raping me because they find me attractive? You wouldn't find anything wrong with that? If you have a healthy asexuality, then it should not be described as deviant. Why do you think it's okay to describe healthy and normal sexuality as not just deviant but criminal? You can't see how that seems a bit like your position is not just about you, but a rabid dislike of people for having a sexuality at all. A fear. Bordering on hatred of sorts.

It's not right to attack your feelings and your asexuality. But it's not wrong to discuss on some level where the feelings you have toward healthy sexuality in others. I know you're used to being attacked, and you should not have to be used to that, but you're going to have to try to get past that if you want people to understand you and if you want to understand them.

Arthais, dude, she's 17. You might put on the gloves on this one. It's who she is. And, I don't know how we could possibly be in a position to determine what is and isn't natural about how she feels. I know it's almost hypocritical to bring this up, but perhaps we could slice off a nice 8 oz cut of tender juice break and give it to her.

Why do I have to accept asexuality?

You do whatever you want to do. You can also decide not to do something.

Don't push me to be asexual, that's all I ask.

Why else would you try to tell me that the way I feel is possibly as dangerous as cancer if you weren't trying to force me to change? I'm sorry if I misinterpreted what you were saying, but none if it sounded like a "helpful suggestion". All of it seemed to be saying that there was no chance that there isn't something wrong with me. You seem to be saying that I should go to therapy so that I will have sex and be "like everyone else".

...

But I'm not really so much afraid of people being attracted to me anymore. But I don't consider a post a "helpful suggestion" if everything in it is basically trying to convince me that I am broken. And it certainly seemed like that's what you were saying.


No, I'm not saying that you are. Again, victim mentality.

I am saying that you should consider the POSSIBILITY that there MIGHT be something wrong, and take necessary precautions.

You took my analogy wrong because you CHOSE to. Frankly speaking, some of the medical conditions that can cause asexual like behavior ARE as bad as cancer.

The fact that you keep trying to read into it that you are wrong because you are asexual is YOUR victim mentality, despite multiple people making intentions ABUNDANTLY clear.

But just in case let me spell it out nice and cleanly.

There are many physical problems that can cause asexual like symptoms. There are many mental problems that can do so as well.

Have you considered the possibility of that? Have you taken necessary testing to ensure that it's not?

or have you taken every single attempt at suggesting that you do so as trying to FORCE you into it all the while repeating the mantra of "there's nothing wrong with me, I'm fine, they all just want to change me!"

Victim mentality, any suggestion that what you are experiencing CAN BE CAUSED, not is being caused, but MIGHT be cause by serious physical and mental health problems is your immediate jumping to the conclusion that oh my god we're all trying to force you into doing something

If I was forced into sex, it would be rape. So if people are thinking of me in sexual ways even knowing that I wouldn't consent, it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to say that it means that they're thinking of raping me.



You honestly think that isn't much of a stretch? You say it like people should be able to turn off their attraction to you once they know about your feeling on the issue. You seem to have a misunderstanding of attraction on par with the misunderstanding your mother may have about your asexuality

To the original poster: don't worry, you'll soon grow out of it.

I really can't tell whether you're serious or repeating the earlier jokesof the others, so I'll put down both replies.

Joking: :p

Serious:
A) There is nothing to prove that her asexuality is something to "grow out of"
B) What if she likes being asexual?

To the original poster: don't worry, you'll soon grow out of it.
Shut up, F.A.G. - you're the last one to know anything about growing out of something.

When I'm in the presence of an attractive woman, I may certainly feel like having sex with her.

That doesn't mean that I should let her know that, or act on it.

I have to turn off my attraction to her. It's the polite thing to do.

You don't turn off your attraction to her. You just don't act on it

You honestly think that isn't much of a stretch? You say it like people should be able to turn off their attraction to you once they know about your feeling on the issue. You seem to have a misunderstanding of attraction on par with the misunderstanding your mother may have about your asexuality

When I'm in the presence of an attractive woman, I may certainly feel like having sex with her.

That doesn't mean that I should let her know that, or act on it.

I have to turn off my attraction to her. It's the polite thing to do.

You don't turn off your attraction to her. You just don't act on it

Yes, exactly. It's like suggesting that gays choose to be attracted to men. It's worded differently, but the truth is that attraction isn't a choice. We can only control action.

Chandy, I appreciate your position and I would never suggest that asexuality doesn't happen naturally, that it's unhealthy and certainly I would begin to suggest that I know how or why it happened in you. Remember that as you read the rest.

Now, imagine I was posting on here talking about gay men as mentally raping me because they find me attractive? You wouldn't find anything wrong with that? If you have a healthy asexuality, then it should not be described as deviant. Why do you think it's okay to describe healthy and normal sexuality as not just deviant but criminal? You can't see how that seems a bit like your position is not just about you, but a rabid dislike of people for having a sexuality at all. A fear. Bordering on hatred of sorts.

It's not right to attack your feelings and your asexuality. But it's not wrong to discuss on some level where the feelings you have toward healthy sexuality in others. I know you're used to being attacked, and you should not have to be used to that, but you're going to have to try to get past that if you want people to understand you and if you want to understand them.

Arthais, dude, she's 17. You might put on the gloves on this one. It's who she is. And, I don't know how we could possibly be in a position to determine what is and isn't natural about how she feels. I know it's almost hypocritical to bring this up, but perhaps we could slice off a nice 8 oz cut of tender juice break and give it to her.

I see why I shouldn't have said that now. It's just hard to understand that it's not something hostile when I have no idea what it is that they feel and no one can help me understand it. I have to assume that it is a threat because it's better to assume that way and prepare for the worst than to assume that it's harmless and be taken by surprise.

I'm trying to cool down and I'm trying not to react as strongly.

Why do I have to accept asexuality?

You do whatever you want to do. You can also decide not to do something.

Don't push me to be asexual, that's all I ask.

The second sentence is all I was asking you to do, to try to see that I can not want to do something without it having to mean that I must have gone through some horrible trauma or have something else horribly wrong with me.

No, I'm not saying that you are. Again, victim mentality.

I am saying that you should consider the POSSIBILITY that there MIGHT be something wrong, and take necessary precautions.

You took my analogy wrong because you CHOSE to. Frankly speaking, some of the medical conditions that can cause asexual like behavior ARE as bad as cancer.

The fact that you keep trying to read into it that you are wrong because you are asexual is YOUR victim mentality, despite multiple people making intentions ABUNDANTLY clear.

But just in case let me spell it out nice and cleanly.

There are many physical problems that can cause asexual like symptoms. There are many mental problems that can do so as well.

Have you considered the possibility of that? Have you taken necessary testing to ensure that it's not?

or have you taken every single attempt at suggesting that you do so as trying to FORCE you into it all the while repeating the mantra of "there's nothing wrong with me, I'm fine, they all just want to change me!"

Victim mentality, any suggestion that what you are experiencing CAN BE CAUSED, not is being caused, but MIGHT be cause by serious physical and mental health problems is your immediate jumping to the conclusion that oh my god we're all trying to force you into doing something

Ok. Sorry I misinterpreted your intentions then. I just don't like it being assumed that I have a brain tumor or something else seriously wrong with me in order to feel the way I do. I don't know how to get tested, because if I do then they'll assume that there is something wrong with me and try to change me even if it turns out that I don't. They'll just keep thinking that it must be something else and never let me be myself.

You honestly think that isn't much of a stretch? You say it like people should be able to turn off their attraction to you once they know about your feeling on the issue. You seem to have a misunderstanding of attraction on par with the misunderstanding your mother may have about your asexuality

I just want them to not express the attraction to me or act on it. If that's too much for them to control, then my fear is probably justified...

The second sentence is all I was asking you to do, to try to see that I can not want to do something without it having to mean that I must have gone through some horrible trauma or have something else horribly wrong with me.

Oh, I don't speculate about the causes of asexuality, but I do think it's strange.

Not something I would do. But, in this world, there are a lot stranger things.

It's not like you're some kind of serial killer or something. Just someone who doesn't care for sex.

The problem with the asexual community, is: They die off. Great legacy right there folks.

The problem with the asexual community, is: They die off. Great legacy right there folks.

Legacies are overrated.

The problem with the asexual community, is: They die off. Great legacy right there folks.

there's always cloning, or spontanious generation! ha

there's always cloning, or spontanious generation! haOr artificial ensemination.

Yes, exactly. It's like suggesting that gays choose to be attracted to men. It's worded differently, but the truth is that attraction isn't a choice. We can only control action.

I don't expect people to stop being attracted to me. I just expect them to control their actions by not expressing their attraction to me or acting on it in any way. That shouldn't be too much to ask.

I don't expect people to stop being attracted to me. I just expect them to control their actions by not expressing their attraction to me or acting on it in any way. That shouldn't be too much to ask.

It isn't too much to ask and most people will go along with it.

What you said however is :

So if people are thinking of me in sexual ways even knowing that I wouldn't consent, it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to say that it means that they're thinking of raping me.

Thinking of people in a sexual way doesn't mean that someone is thinking of raping them. They may think of asking them out with sex as an intention but only in a consensual manner.

I just want them to not express the attraction to me or act on it.Oh, now you're just not being fair.

We're supposed to respect who YOU are, right? Well, "being attracted" is just a part of who we are, for those of us who feel attraction.

Homophobes who try to be politically correct say things like, "I'm fine with gay men being gay with each other, but they shouldn't be hitting on ME!" Indeed, in the worst cases a man will go so far as to punch a man who expresses attracted toward him, because he takes it as some kind of insult!

This is no way to deal with each other. If people hit on you or express attraction, you are in exactly the same position to turn them down as anyone else. Tell them you're not interested.

Ironically, it's easier for them to take if you say you're not interested in them, not that you're not interested, period.

I am a university lecturer, and a few years ago I was at a workshop discussing issues associated with students becoming too personal with teachers, sometimes to the point that they develop an attraction. They might even ask an instructor out on a date.

What should I do in that circumstance? Well, there is a strong temptation to say something like, "I can't" because of the rules, or "aren't there boys your age you'd be more interested in?" Why? Because I don't want to hurt the kid's feelings. But according to the psychologist who ran the workshop--and I happen to think it is a brilliant point--statements like these do not tend to discourage a person and they do not really "let them down gently." When someone who is attracted to you hears "I can't," what they actually process is something more like "... but I'm not saying I don't want to," or they think of it as something that's just going to take some "convincing." When they hear "aren't there boys/girls your age..." they process, "I need to prove that I'm mature."

It's much better, in the long run, simply to say, "I'm sorry. That's very flattering, but I'm not interested." You don't lead someone on, and you don't treat them as if they've insulted you.

The same goes for getting hit on by gay men. It helps that I am honestly flattered, and I can say so. I don't tell them, "Sorry, I'm not gay," because it inevitably sounds defensive and it makes their homosexuality into some kind of "issue."

But there's more than that. I have gay friends whom I happen to know find me attractive, even though they know there is little possibility I'm going to reciprocate: it's a funny thing about these emotions, often you don't decide to whom they attach. Now, am I offended that my friends are attracted to me? No. Do I wish that they would stop paying so much attention to me, looking at me "that way," laughing just-so at my not-so-good jokes? Not really. Occasionally in the past it has caused some friction with my girlfriend, but at this point she knows me and trusts me enough that she can deal with other people being attracted to me. Likewise, I can deal with other people being attracted to her.

What's the point of all this? If people are attracted to you, that's something you should find flattering even if you don't really understand it. Take my word for it: 99% of human attraction is essentially benevolent and well-intended; it's also something people can't help, at least at the level of the emotions themselves. And people who are attracted to you WILL treat you a little differently, even if they know there's not a chance in hell anything will "happen."

Of course, if they are badgering you or becoming aggressive, that's a different matter. Human beings CAN control that kind of behavior, and we should.

But if you expect people to respect your asexuality, you have to learn to respect their attraction. Just as heterosexuals need to learn to respect the possibility that someone of the same sex might find them attractive.

And, if it helps you, next time you need to turn someone down try saying "I'm sorry. I think you're a great friend, but I just don't feel anything else for you." The "for you" is important (and it's not a lie for you), because to the confused mind of someone in love, "I don't feel attraction for anyone" or "I just don't date" sound more like a challenge than a denial.

In principle, of course, a person should respect your decision whatever the reason. I'm just saying this as a point of advice if you want to make rejections "stick" faster.

It isn't too much to ask and most people will go along with it.

Thinking of people in a sexual way doesn't mean that someone is thinking of raping them. They may think of asking them out with sex as an intention but only in a consensual manner.

But if they know that I won't consent to sex and still think about me like that then that isn't very nice and it would seem that they want to go against my wishes. I'm still trying to understand this though.

It isn't too much to ask and most people will go along with it.

What you said however is :

Thinking of people in a sexual way doesn't mean that someone is thinking of raping them. They may think of asking them out with sex as an intention but only in a consensual manner.


I think it's an important distinction to note that people do, in fact, have rape fantasies, fantasies where the subject is not consenting even in the fantasies, and that these are quite different than an fantasy involving someone who may or may not consent to sex if it were really happening but their consent is an tacit part of the fantasy itself. In other word, it's not a rape fantasy when you are fantasizing about someone who consents in the fantasy.

Thinking of people in a sexual way doesn't mean that someone is thinking of raping them.Right, even knowing that their love interest would probably never consent... as in the case of a straight person falling for a gay person, or a gay person falling for a straight person.

This "fear of rape" mentality smacks of the bizarre prejudice among homophobes that homosexuals are some sort of sexual predators.

Right, even knowing that their love interest would probably never consent...

Yup it's fine to fantasise about a scenario in which that person would consent. Pretty much the basis behind a lot of porn

But if they know that I won't consent to sex and still think about me like that then that isn't very nice and it would seem that they want to go against my wishes. I'm still trying to understand this though.

They couldn't fantasise about you consenting?

I can have fantasies about celebrities who are way out of my league and probably wouldn't go to bed with me but I don't fantasise about raping them. It's a fantasy, not reality, therefore I can change a lot of the facts in my scenario

Right, even knowing that their love interest would probably never consent... as in the case of a straight person falling for a gay person, or a gay person falling for a straight person.

This "fear of rape" mentality smacks of the bizarre prejudice among homophobes that homosexuals are some sort of sexual predators.

I don't have a "fear of rape" mentality. I do have a problem with gay men constantly asking me if I'll try it "Try it! Just once! You never know if you're really gay or not until you try it! Please!"

Frankly, it gets annoying. It's not a sexual predator thing. It's a "this guy won't take No for an answer".

I'm sure many heterosexual women have met heterosexual men with the same problem.

Yup it's fine to fantasise about a scenario in which that person would consent. Pretty much the basis behind a lot of pornSure. I doubt 10% of the people that have appeared in my fantasies would actually consent in real life--most of them, not because they're not interested in men or because they're not interested in sex, but simply because I doubt they'd be interested in ME! (And yes, my ego is just fine with that. I'd think we should be worried if I said the opposite.)

Fantasies are, for the most part, perfectly innocent. It's when people fail to distinguish between fantasy and reality that problems occur.

But if they know that I won't consent to sex and still think about me like that then that isn't very nice and it would seem that they want to go against my wishes. I'm still trying to understand this though.

Actually, it's not that dissimilar to what you're expressing now. There simply imagining you as consenting. They're secretly wishing that you would actually want to consent to them, the same way you're wishing that they would just not want you to consent to them.

I realize that somewhere in there you find a violation. But you can't get mad at them for simply wishing you were different anymore than they can get mad at you for wishing they were different. Or, well, you can, but it doesn't help anyone.

Where things get problematic is when people go beyond wishing you were different and get to not respecting your right to feel as you do. It's what happens when parents try to change the sexuality of their children. It's also what happens when people try to change the fantasies of people.

Don't worry as much about what people wish was how the world is, and worry more about people simply respecting your rights and who you are.

Oh, now you're just not being fair.

We're supposed to respect who YOU are, right? Well, "being attracted" is just a part of who we are, for those of us who feel attraction.

Homophobes who try to be politically correct say things like, "I'm fine with gay men being gay with each other, but they shouldn't be hitting on ME!" Indeed, in the worst cases a man will go so far as to punch a man who expresses attracted toward him, because he takes it as some kind of insult!

This is no way to deal with each other. If people hit on you or express attraction, you are in exactly the same position to turn them down as anyone else. Tell them you're not interested.

Ironically, it's easier for them to take if you say you're not interested in them, not that you're not interested, period.

I am a university lecturer, and a few years ago I was at a workshop discussing issues associated with students becoming too personal with teachers, sometimes to the point that they develop an attraction. They might even ask an instructor out on a date.

What should I do in that circumstance? Well, there is a strong temptation to say something like, "I can't" because of the rules, or "aren't there boys your age you'd be more interested in?" Why? Because I don't want to hurt the kid's feelings. But according to the psychologist who ran the workshop--and I happen to think it is a brilliant point--statements like these do not tend to discourage a person and they do not really "let them down gently." When someone who is attracted to you hears "I can't," what they actually process is something more like "... but I'm not saying I don't want to," or they think of it as something that's just going to take some "convincing." When they hear "aren't there boys/girls your age..." they process, "I need to prove that I'm mature."

It's much better, in the long run, simply to say, "I'm sorry. That's very flattering, but I'm not interested." You don't lead someone on, and you don't treat them as if they've insulted you.

The same goes for getting hit on by gay men. It helps that I am honestly flattered, and I can say so. I don't tell them, "Sorry, I'm not gay," because it inevitably sounds defensive and it makes their homosexuality into some kind of "issue."

But there's more than that. I have gay friends whom I happen to know find me attractive, even though they know there is little possibility I'm going to reciprocate: it's a funny thing about these emotions, often you don't decide to whom they attach. Now, am I offended that my friends are attracted to me? No. Do I wish that they would stop paying so much attention to me, looking at me "that way," laughing just-so at my not-so-good jokes? Not really. Occasionally in the past it has caused some friction with my girlfriend, but at this point she knows me and trusts me enough that she can deal with other people being attracted to me. Likewise, I can deal with other people being attracted to her.

What's the point of all this? If people are attracted to you, that's something you should find flattering even if you don't really understand it. Take my word for it: 99% of human attraction is essentially benevolent and well-intended; it's also something people can't help, at least at the level of the emotions themselves. And people who are attracted to you WILL treat you a little differently, even if they know there's not a chance in hell anything will "happen."

Of course, if they are badgering you or becoming aggressive, that's a different matter. Human beings CAN control that kind of behavior, and we should.

But if you expect people to respect your asexuality, you have to learn to respect their attraction. Just as heterosexuals need to learn to respect the possibility that someone of the same sex might find them attractive.

And, if it helps you, next time you need to turn someone down try saying "I'm sorry. I think you're a great friend, but I just don't feel anything else for you." The "for you" is important (and it's not a lie for you), because to the confused mind of someone in love, "I don't feel attraction for anyone" or "I just don't date" sound more like a challenge than a denial.

In principle, of course, a person should respect your decision whatever the reason. I'm just saying this as a point of advice if you want to make rejections "stick" faster.

I'm not trying to not be fair. :(

And thanks for that advice. It makes sense.

It's just hard to deal with the idea of people having feelings for me that I can't even come close to understanding.

It's just hard to deal with the idea of people having feelings for me that I can't even come close to understanding.

So have some sympathy for your mothers position (just to get back to the OP :p)

I don't have a "fear of rape" mentality. I do have a problem with gay men constantly asking me if I'll try it "Try it! Just once! You never know if you're really gay or not until you try it! Please!"Well, that's just obscene. But, as you point out below, surely something heterosexual women have dealt with for millenia.

It's a "this guy won't take No for an answer".In all seriousness, I do find that, "sorry, not interested" (which is true) gets through a lot better than, "sorry, I'm not gay." The former is a hit to their self-esteem which, though temporary, serves as a kind of negative conditioning: put yourself on the line for me, and it will sting. We've all been there, we know it's not the end of the world. But we also know we're not likely to try again with that man/woman any time soon.

"I'm not gay," on the other hand, seems to provoke the, "Oh, really?" reaction. Sensing (rightly or wrongly) a bit of defensiveness on your part, the lover wonders what you're hiding... could you secretly be interested... could you be holding down beautiful gay feelings that would just emerge if he could get you to hold his hand??

Probably not, but remember: he's lusting/loving/attracted/whatever. We've all been there. "Thinking clearly" is something of a last resort in those circumstances.

Actually, it's not that dissimilar to what you're expressing now. There simply imagining you as consenting. They're secretly wishing that you would actually want to consent to them, the same way you're wishing that they would just not want you to consent to them.

I realize that somewhere in there you find a violation. But you can't get mad at them for simply wishing you were different anymore than they can get mad at you for wishing they were different. Or, well, you can, but it doesn't help anyone.

Where things get problematic is when people go beyond wishing you were different and get to not respecting your right to feel as you do. It's what happens when parents try to change the sexuality of their children. It's also what happens when people try to change the fantasies of people.

Don't worry as much about what people wish was how the world is, and worry more about people simply respecting your rights and who you are.

Ok. That kind of makes sense. Didn't know they'd imagine me consenting, because I don't see that as possible. It still seems gross that people could imagine stuff like that about me, but there's nothing I can do to stop them, and I'm trying to understand it and not be mad about it.

So have some sympathy for your mothers position (just to get back to the OP :p)

It's just that there are things that they can relate my lack of attraction to (like how they feel about people they're not attracted to), but I don't know if there's anyway I can understand how sexual attraction feels.

Wait wait, let me make sure I understand this. You don't like people fantasizing about you, to the point of, in the past, making yourself intentionally unattractive because you felt the fantasies were effectively a desire to rape you?

That they were thinking of having sex with you, sex you didn't want, so they were thinking of having sex with you without your consent, ergo, rape?

And the thought that if one were to have a fantasy about you, that fantasy would NOT include your consent? That people would imagine having sex with you but not imagine you WANTING to have sex with them?

This just didn't occur to you until just now? That usually when someone fantasizes about having sex with a partner, that fantasy usually has that person's partner wanting to have sex with them? Just didn't think of that? Just automatically drew the conclusion that because you wouldn't consent in life, you're not consenting in fantasy?

And nobody but myself finds this just a tiny bit odd?

Ok. That kind of makes sense. Didn't know they'd imagine me consenting, because I don't see that as possible. It still seems gross that people could imagine stuff like that about me, but there's nothing I can do to stop them, and I'm trying to understand it and not be mad about it.



It's just that there are things that they can relate my lack of attraction to (like how they feel about people they're not attracted to), but I don't know if there's anyway I can understand how sexual attraction feels.


Like desiring chocolate.

It's just that there are things that they can relate my lack of attraction to (like how they feel about people they're not attracted to), but I don't know if there's anyway I can understand how sexual attraction feels.You can empathize.

I don't have any way to really understand how my dog feels when I come home to let him out. I'm not a dog, I don't have dog emotions, I can't get inside the head of a dog.

But I do think I recognize expressions of joy and excitement. I think that when he tears around the house jumping up and down, leaping on me and licking my face, that he is "happy to see me." I think that when his body wiggles as if he can't control it as I'm opening his food bag, he is excited, eager, and happy.

Likewise, when I am leaving the house, his behavior suggests feelings of sadness and impending loneliness.

I have absolutely no idea if when he acts this way he really feels anything like what I have felt. But I do feel closer to him, and more understanding, when I let myself make those kind of assumptions.

-----

Sexual and romantic attraction are not all THAT different than other emotional experiences you may have had. When you are in love with a person, seeing them lights up your day: you sometimes get a tingly feeling of joy. Think about opening Christmas presents, or seeing a good friend you haven't seen in a long time.

When a person is attracted to you, you'll notice a smile jump to her/his face when you're around. You may also notice that he/she acts nervous... well, if he/she acts nervous, that's probably how he/she feels.

There are very few sensations in romantic feeling that are simply not comparable to feelings you would have had in other, non-romantic contexts.

Sex, perhaps, is a little different: it involves sensations on your body that you may not have experienced. But it too is comparable to other feelings. When you were young, did you ever sit in your mother's lap while she stroked your arm or your hair? That's on the right track. Have you ever enjoyed the feeling of a warm bath all over you, or the feeling of being caressed by running water? That's on the right track. For that matter, have you ever had REALLY good food... especially a dessert... that just made you want to savor it in your mouth, that made you break off from rational thought just to ENJOY every sensation, every moment of pleasure?

Sex is something like that, though most people associate it with very particular parts of their bodies. The fact of the matter, however, is that people "make love" with their WHOLE bodies, and sexual experience has less to do with genitals than most people think.

If you've ever enjoyed a massage, you have some experience that you can extend in the direction of imagining what sex is like for people who enjoy it.

Wait wait, let me make sure I understand this. You don't like people fantasizing about you, to the point of, in the past, making yourself intentionally unattractive because you felt the fantasies were effectively a desire to rape you?

That they were thinking of having sex with you, sex you didn't want, so they were thinking of having sex with you without your consent, ergo, rape?

And the thought that if one were to have a fantasy about you, that fantasy would NOT include your consent? That people would imagine having sex with you but not imagine you WANTING to have sex with them?

This just didn't occur to you until just now? That usually when someone fantasizes about having sex with a partner, that fantasy usually has that person's partner wanting to have sex with them? Just didn't think of that? Just automatically drew the conclusion that because you wouldn't consent in life, you're not consenting in fantasy?

And nobody but myself finds this just a tiny bit odd?

Not at all. I also don't find it odd that someone who has never been in a car doesn't know how to turn on the wipers.

She doesn't have sexual fantasies. Is is weird to think she might not understand how they work? Hell, listen to the dumb things people who do understand sexuality say about gays. Is it hard to believe someone who has no basis for comparison could, you know, fail in their comparison?

Like desiring chocolate.

Ok. So it's like a food craving, kind of?

You can empathize.

I don't have any way to really understand how my dog feels when I come home to let him out. I'm not a dog, I don't have dog emotions, I can't get inside the head of a dog.

But I do think I recognize expressions of joy and excitement. I think that when he tears around the house jumping up and down, leaping on me and licking my face, that he is "happy to see me." I think that when his body wiggles as if he can't control it as I'm opening his food bag, he is excited, eager, and happy.

Likewise, when I am leaving the house, his behavior suggests feelings of sadness and impending loneliness.

I have absolutely no idea if when he acts this way he really feels anything like what I have felt. But I do feel closer to him, and more understanding, when I let myself make those kind of assumptions.

-----

Sexual and romantic attraction are not all THAT different than other emotional experiences you may have had. When you are in love with a person, seeing them lights up your day: you sometimes get a tingly feeling of joy. Think about opening Christmas presents, or seeing a good friend you haven't seen in a long time.

When a person is attracted to you, you'll notice a smile jump to her/his face when you're around. You may also notice that he/she acts nervous... well, if he/she acts nervous, that's probably how he/she feels.

There are very few sensations in romantic feeling that are simply not comparable to feelings you would have had in other, non-romantic contexts.

Sex, perhaps, is a little different: it involves sensations on your body that you may not have experienced. But it too is comparable to other feelings. When you were young, did you ever sit in your mother's lap while she stroked your arm or your hair? That's on the right track. Have you ever enjoyed the feeling of a warm bath all over you, or the feeling of being caressed by running water? That's on the right track. For that matter, have you ever had REALLY good food... especially a dessert... that just made you want to savor it in your mouth, that made you break off from rational thought just to ENJOY every sensation, every moment of pleasure?

Sex is something like that, though most people associate it with very particular parts of their bodies. The fact of the matter, however, is that people "make love" with their WHOLE bodies, and sexual experience has less to do with genitals than most people think.

If you've ever enjoyed a massage, you have some experience that you can extend in the direction of imagining what sex is like for people who enjoy it.

I'm trying to empathize. Thank you for the comparisons.

I don't really like massages because they seem like they make my back hurt.

I don't really like massages because they seem like they make my back hurt.Hey, nothing's for everyone. And I guess that includes sex. ;)

The point is, think about things that feel good, think about things that make you happy, comfortable, excited... and you're already starting to grasp the things variously included in "love" or "romance" or "attraction." It's just that for most of us, other people can make us feel that way.

In some ways, love is an extension of a more general need for recognition and affection. We want other people to like us, as individuals. When someone we like doesn't seem to like us back, it hurts... even if it's just someone we wanted to be friends with. On the other hand, when someone we like (as a friend) returns our affection, it's a great feeling: we know we like each other, and that makes the fun we have together that much better. We can trust each other because we care about each other.

In many ways, romantic affection is an intensification of those feelings. Being rejected by someone you idealize as a love-object hurts (usually) a lot more than being rejected by someone with whom you wanted to be friends. That's partly because romance is also, in many ways, an intensification of the sense of trust between two people: when you are in love with someone, you trust them with your heart. You (may) also trust them with your body.

You trust that you can share deep feelings with them without being ashamed. You trust that you can show them your naked body (perhaps), which for most of us means trusting that they won't judge us for our many flaws. You may trust them to touch you, knowing that they would never hurt you. And so on.

In principle, I don't think there's anything all that unique about romantic feelings of affection. As I reflect on my many friendships, I recognize most of the same feelings, if somewhat less intense or somewhat differently applied.

So I think if you reflect on your friendships, especially your most intimate and trusting friendships, you will find that you have a solid base upon which to imagine what romantic feeling is like.

I've always felt that the most rewarding romance is, at any rate, also a friendship in every sense of the word.

It would be contradicting the fundamental laws of the universe.Its is inherent in every living thing to want to reproduce.Thats what we're driven to, thats what life is.An asexual being which depends on sex for the species to survive is a freak of nature and basically impossible.it would be like gravity suddenly disappearing.While a person cant help who they are attracted to, hetero or homo, the thought that they would not be attracted to either sex is abhorrent to nature.

Humans defy logic and nature all the time. Mass-murderers don't exactly have the best interests of the species in mind either (at least not from anyone else's point-of-view).

The problem with the asexual community, is: They die off. Great legacy right there folks.

One of the wonderful things about humanity is that we don't need to leave a biological legacy. The greatest legacies are the words and works of others.

But if they know that I won't consent to sex and still think about me like that then that isn't very nice and it would seem that they want to go against my wishes. I'm still trying to understand this though.



Probably not, but remember: he's lusting/loving/attracted/whatever. We've all been there. "Thinking clearly" is something of a last resort in those circumstances.

That judgement clouding is partially responsible for babies being born and diseases spreading. Sucks doesn't it.

It's just that there are things that they can relate my lack of attraction to (like how they feel about people they're not attracted to), but I don't know if there's anyway I can understand how sexual attraction feels.

Hmm not really. I suppose the easiest thing that I could describe in infatuation/limerence. But as far as I know you're not OC so it would be a little harder to explain what it's like to always have a series of objects (at this point I'm talking about actual objects not people settle down!) that your thoughts always wander back to no matter what.

Those are serious fears, especially something as seemingly innocuous as a tampon.

I'm sexual and I have the same fears as gynocologists and tampons, also a fear of groups of people (more then one on one). I don't think it's a big deal at all. How she feels is how she feels, she is old enough to know. Most homo/heterosexuals figure out their sexuality (or have a pretty good idea) by her age. It isn't something that she should change if she doesn't want to.

But isn't love really... ultimately... sexual hormones?

No, I heard it on the radio so no link (google it, I guess) but was sex or sexual attraction there is a short term burst of endorphines. For long term there are different ones that are more closely related to feelings of trust then anything else.
But there are asexual couples who love eachother without sex, so while they are commonly connected there isn't necessarily any connection.

her mother should be very happy that she isnt interested in boys yet. far too many girls get sidetracked into worrying about being popular with the guys and end up doing anything it takes to get noticed.

her mother doesnt take it seriously because there will come a day when a particular guy walks by and chandelier swoons at the very scent of him. with luck she'll be old enough to deal with the rush of emotions/hormones that hit her at that moment.

How do you know that? Do you doubt all asexuals? Isn't that what they did to gays a while ago?


It's not like you're some kind of serial killer or something. Just someone who doesn't care for sex.

...or is she?:eek:

I'm sexual and I have the same fears as gynocologists and tampons, also a fear of groups of people (more then one on one).When did I say she fears such things because she is asexual? Never. I suggested that phobias are themselves symptoms of psychological issues, and that a person trying to work through psychological problems should try to be open to change even at a very deep level.

When did I say she fears such things because she is asexual? Never. I suggested that phobias are themselves symptoms of psychological issues, and that a person trying to work through psychological problems should try to be open to change even at a very deep level.

I don't want to lose being me though.

You change all the time, as does everyone. Do you fear all of that too?

No, but I don't want to lose such an important part of me.

I don't want to lose being me though.

You change all the time, as does everyone. Do you fear all of that too?

TO Nobel hobos, I would recommend taking a book and shoving it up your own ass but since there's definitely too much up there already that could prove difficult. In the likely event that this doesn't work, please buy a dictionary, ( you'll find one in a bookshop you ignorant Aussie twat ) and check the word 'probably'.

Its a sad reflection on a 43 year old life if that's how you get your kicks.

To Chandelier: You are intelligent, educated, literate, eloquent, and very self confident to the point of almost being overly so.These are all attractive qualities.I am attracted to that.It does not mean I want to rape or otherwise defile you.I am interested in how exactly you intentionally made yourself 'unnattractive'.Its unfortunate that you weren't born Australian whereby it would be genetic, and you would never have to worry.

Comparing Asexuality and mass murderers? One is not born a mass murderer.It is not an orientation which you cannot control. Being born heterosexual or homosexual, possibly even "asexual", is not something you choose to do.Unlike mass murderers.So what you said is ridiculous.

Its not nature which decides on a mass muderer or even just a murderer.That is caused by psychollogical, social, environmental issues which neednt be.

To Chandelier: You are intelligent, educated, literate, eloquent, and very self confident to the point of almost being overly so.These are all attractive qualities.I am attracted to that.It does not mean I want to rape or otherwise defile you.I am interested in how exactly you intentionally made yourself 'unnattractive'.Its unfortunate that you weren't born Australian whereby it would be genetic, and you would never have to worry.

I wear baggy shirts that are at least several sizes too large for me and my hair is pretty much always really messy and sometimes hides my face or part of it.

No, but I don't want to lose such an important part of me.

What is it that makes that part important to you?

This is something I can't even begin to understand so i'll apologise now if I come across as trying to offend. I'm trying to understand more than anything

What is it that makes that part important to you?

This is something I can't even begin to understand so i'll apologise now if I come across as trying to offend. I'm trying to understand more than anything

Well, it's my orientation. It's a part of me. If I didn't have that then I'd have to be attracted to other people, and that's not who I am.

Well, it's my orientation. It's a part of me. If I didn't have that then I'd have to be attracted to other people, and that's not who I am.

Nobody - and I mean absolutely nobody in the whole wide world - will EVER be able to make you feel attracted to others when you are not.

After reading through this thread, I have to admit that your orientation does sound a lot like something you chose for yourself and made it your identity. And you are scared that somebody might be actually able to change that. Well, nobody is. You're the only one who will ever be able to do that, if you want to and allow yourself to. And you'll still be you. That is something not even you can change.

Looking into the possibility that maybe there are underlying problems that are causing your fears of intimacy does not mean that you'll start sleeping around with everything that's not nailed down tomorrow. What it means is trying to understand yourself, trying to understand the cause and reason of your fears and concerns. And once you understand that, you will still be yourself. Only you'll be yourself with a lot more options, one of which is remaining asexual, but hopefully without those fears.

I don't have a "fear of rape" mentality. I do have a problem with gay men constantly asking me if I'll try it "Try it! Just once! You never know if you're really gay or not until you try it! Please!"

Frankly, it gets annoying. It's not a sexual predator thing. It's a "this guy won't take No for an answer".

I'm sure many heterosexual women have met heterosexual men with the same problem.

Aren't you bi?

Comparing Asexuality and mass murderers? One is not born a mass murderer.It is not an orientation which you cannot control. Being born heterosexual or homosexual, possibly even "asexual", is not something you choose to do.Unlike mass murderers.So what you said is ridiculous.

Its not nature which decides on a mass muderer or even just a murderer.That is caused by psychollogical, social, environmental issues which neednt be.

I'm fairly certain chemical imbalances and abnormal brain functions can drive someone to become a mass murderer, just as it can drive someone to be a nymphomaniac.

Well, it's my orientation. It's a part of me. If I didn't have that then I'd have to be attracted to other people, and that's not who I am.

I hate to bring it up again, since it sounds so extreme, but it is a valid metaphor for the situation - cancer. Tumors are technically a part of a cancer patient, but that doesn't mean it's good for them to have them. An amputee might miss having his right leg, but such things are taken only when they are a danger to the person who has them.

I don't want to keep saying asexuality isn't a valid orientation, but I think that if it is indeed caused by a psychological issue that should be worked out, it's not an orientation any more than schizophrenia is.

I hate to bring it up again, since it sounds so extreme, but it is a valid metaphor for the situation - cancer. Tumors are technically a part of a cancer patient, but that doesn't mean it's good for them to have them. An amputee might miss having his right leg, but such things are taken only when they are a danger to the person who has them.

I've never heard of a cancer patient absorbing a tumor into their identity to the point where they don't want it removed.

I don't expect people to stop being attracted to me. I just expect them to control their actions by not expressing their attraction to me or acting on it in any way. That shouldn't be too much to ask.

Yes and no.

Yes, in that people who want to get along with you, be friends or co-operate in some endevour, should respect your wishes, which seem reasonable. No hints, winks, persuasion, flirting. No slaps on the bum, no looking down your blouse (er, shirt, whatever). No schemes which sound like friendship but are really courting.

That's entirely reasonable, it is what people are expected to do in a "formal" relationship, eg in a workplace, or a "child-friendly" environment, eg a Christmas dinner. People don't need special training to do that, but at some stage you have to set that tone, make it clear that that is what you expect of people. You might in some cases have to tell them directly what kind of friendship, collaboration, or soulmate / romantic relationship you want.

(Here's the tough bit. Between yes and no. Brace yourself.

You have to define what you expect from other people. You can't tell them what to do (not without a buttload of power, anyway, which you don't have and I'm pretty sure you don't want) so all you can do is tell them what NOT to do.

Most people react pretty badly to that. They either freeze up completely, or they think you're playing a game and start testing the limits.

I've found it useful, trying to establish relationships with people who might be sexually attracted to me (I can never be sure, probably no-one can), to test the limits of what they will accept themselves. Then it's not just me laying down the rules of what they can do, but more a mutual testing of limits. They test one of my limits, I test one of theirs. We proceed by steps until we both know each other's limits and neither of us has the whip hand.

Yes, I'm a bloke. I'm 43. Most young women (say 20-25) who are attracted to me, I can persuade not to play the sex game ... though they usually flip into treating me as "dad" which is pretty crap too.
But with sexually active women in my own age group, it's a real struggle. They're as smart as me, they want it and I don't.

It's a battle, sister. It's a really hard road you've chosen here.
They gang up. They compare notes. They have a world of experience and culture to draw on. You've just got you.

With the kind of brain I've got (I open the valve as wide as necessary, craziness comes out) that's generally how I test other people's limits, or punish them for exceding mine. I intimidate them with craziness, then I suffer pangs of conscience because it's so fucking unfair to use a gift that way.

Your method of intimidating others will probably be different. I can't advise you on that, and if I could I wouldn't. You find it by using it. And that's harsh, isn't it?

Straight from the poop deck: forget about being gentle. Forget about not hurting people's (boys, men, girls, women, family, god)'s feelings. If you choose to be celibate (or asexual, if you prefer) and you don't want to go live in a nunnery, or lock yourself away from new people, you girl will have to fight for your rights.

And you'll probably never get all the rights you deserve. People will keep trying to change your mind, they'll always hold something back as a reward for when you "see the light." For the forseeable future, every new person you want to establish any kind of relationship (sub-sexual, romantic, friendly, casual, professional, political, cultural) with, you will have to explain and negotiate this issue with.

It's just like racism, like sexism, like ageism, speciesism, existentialism, whatever. People are bigots until persuaded otherwise. They assume that the way they are is the right and proper way, and anything else is wrong.

The most obvious ally of the asexual is the openly Gay person. They know what it's like to battle expectations in others, they have strategies for defeating those expectations. They have won recognition as a legitimate sexuality most places in the western world (heh, they don't get slagged-off as "unnatural" or "doomed to die out"heh-heh (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12891689&postcount=8))
If you need a real-life ally in this sexual/asexual business, look around for your dykes and poofters. Preferably a whole room full of them, both kinds, discussing their mutual cause.

Get thee to a Gay club!)

And NO: You can ask that of individual people, but it's unlikely you'll just get it just by asking. Hey, ask politely, it works wonders in many things, but don't be disappointed when that fails. Perhaps a few years from now you could wear a colour, or a kind of hat, and be recognized as an "asexual" by some proportion of the population, but to ask all of society to instantly recognize and make allowance for your (and frankly, my) (a)sexual orientation?

That IS too much to ask. Look around NSG, all the high ideals. Shit, look anywhere. Wishing does not make it so. "Society" is six billion souls, growing every minute ... do what you think you should do, use your wits and the advantages you have by where you were born and by experience and by your talents to express yourself as well you can, to the limits of your conscience*. You go, girl.

But don't expect society to abase itself, kow-tow to your personal choice. That is not going to happen, and believing that it will is a blank cheque to your subconscious. "I want it so. Do whatever it takes."

Oh, and I really don't like the term "asexual" for "one who doesn't have sex."
Or even for "one who doesn't want or despises sex."
For starters, it's semantic: we will never be recognized as a legitimate sexuality if we define ourselves as entirely different from all sexualities. That is arrogant, it is also tactically foolish.

Also, I find "celibacy" more modest. I choose it, but I allow that deeper parts of my nature may over-ride my choice. My conscious mind may steer my sexuality, it makes choices as to my sexual activity, but it does not dictate to my sexuality. And it most certainly cannot pass a death-sentence on it.

I've never heard of a cancer patient absorbing a tumor into their identity to the point where they don't want it removed.

No, but deaf people do. It's a raging debate when deaf parents will not want their deaf children to have their hearing fixed if that's possible. Some view it as a problem and some view it as a part of their identity.

People who are diagnosed with incurable and fatal illnesses erroneously famously become depressed when they find out. We naturally incorporate such things into our definition of ourselves. Often the "cure" is as jarring as discovering the "problem" in the first place. It's not as simple as "I define myself by this therefore it would be bad to change it."

Chandy defines herself as an asexual and I personally believe it's healthy to do so. However, if it turned out there was some physical or mental ailment that in the course of treatment would cause her to become a sexual being, I think it would be unhealthy to turn it down. At that point it becomes less about being who you are and about avoiding being some other sexual identity.

It's not simple and it's not clear, though some would make it seem so. I'll tell you now if they found a tumor in my brain that was causing me to be straight but also malignant in some way, I'd absolutely encourage them to remove the tumor and would be happily hitting on men the next day.

I embrace my sexuality because it's a part of me, but if "me" changed I'd embrace that too. That's a healthy response to the things that we have no reason to wish to control.

I've never heard of a cancer patient absorbing a tumor into their identity to the point where they don't want it removed.

There've been stranger things. There's a psychological disorder that makes you obsess upon a specific limb until the person goes insane if the limb is not removed entirely.

There is a sexual orientation for not wanting sex now?

That AVEN site is one of the strangest things I've seen on the net. A website dedicated to claiming to not be interested in sex, why would they dedicate a website to it if they aren't insterested in it? And they have a whole forum about sexuality with hundreds of thousands of posts. It seems more like they are obsessed with sex, or rather, uhh... obsessed with not being obsessed with sex.



Wait, maybe I'm "asexual" too. I'm a 22 year old male and don't feel any desire at all to kiss or have sex. On the other hand hugs are nice and I imagine cuddling would be very cozy. I have felt attracted to a few specific girls and felt nervous butterflies around them yet I really wanted to be around them. However I never wanted to kiss or have sex with them. The way I see it sex is a hobby just like any other and not being interested in sex feels just as natural as not being interested in cricket, model trains or parachuting. Does this sound like I'm asexual?

My personal guess is that I am heterosexual and the only reason I don't want sex is because I haven't tried it so I don't know how great it is. That is a catch 22, I'm not going to try it because there are so many other hobbies out there that seems much more interesting to try, specially since masturbation is totally boring.

Not attempting to label you, but that's basically a description of me (except for the age), and I identify as asexual. Whatever works for you though.

(I'll admit to having not read through the thread before posting this)

Yes and no.

Yes, in that people who want to get along with you, be friends or co-operate in some endevour, should respect your wishes, which seem reasonable. No hints, winks, persuasion, flirting. No slaps on the bum, no looking down your blouse (er, shirt, whatever). No schemes which sound like friendship but are really courting.

That's entirely reasonable, it is what people are expected to do in a "formal" relationship, eg in a workplace, or a "child-friendly" environment, eg a Christmas dinner. People don't need special training to do that, but at some stage you have to set that tone, make it clear that that is what you expect of people. You might in some cases have to tell them directly what kind of friendship, collaboration, or soulmate / romantic relationship you want.

(Here's the tough bit. Between yes and no. Brace yourself.

You have to define what you expect from other people. You can't tell them what to do (not without a buttload of power, anyway, which you don't have and I'm pretty sure you don't want) so all you can do is tell them what NOT to do.

Most people react pretty badly to that. They either freeze up completely, or they think you're playing a game and start testing the limits.

I've found it useful, trying to establish relationships with people who might be sexually attracted to me (I can never be sure, probably no-one can), to test the limits of what they will accept themselves. Then it's not just me laying down the rules of what they can do, but more a mutual testing of limits. They test one of my limits, I test one of theirs. We proceed by steps until we both know each other's limits and neither of us has the whip hand.

Yes, I'm a bloke. I'm 43. Most young women (say 20-25) who are attracted to me, I can persuade not to play the sex game ... though they usually flip into treating me as "dad" which is pretty crap too.
But with sexually active women in my own age group, it's a real struggle. They're as smart as me, they want it and I don't.

It's a battle, sister. It's a really hard road you've chosen here.
They gang up. They compare notes. They have a world of experience and culture to draw on. You've just got you.

With the kind of brain I've got (I open the valve as wide as necessary, craziness comes out) that's generally how I test other people's limits, or punish them for exceding mine. I intimidate them with craziness, then I suffer pangs of conscience because it's so fucking unfair to use a gift that way.

Your method of intimidating others will probably be different. I can't advise you on that, and if I could I wouldn't. You find it by using it. And that's harsh, isn't it?

Straight from the poop deck: forget about being gentle. Forget about not hurting people's (boys, men, girls, women, family, god)'s feelings. If you choose to be celibate (or asexual, if you prefer) and you don't want to go live in a nunnery, or lock yourself away from new people, you girl will have to fight for your rights.

And you'll probably never get all the rights you deserve. People will keep trying to change your mind, they'll always hold something back as a reward for when you "see the light." For the forseeable future, every new person you want to establish any kind of relationship (sub-sexual, romantic, friendly, casual, professional, political, cultural) with, you will have to explain and negotiate this issue with.

It's just like racism, like sexism, like ageism, speciesism, existentialism, whatever. People are bigots until persuaded otherwise. They assume that the way they are is the right and proper way, and anything else is wrong.

The most obvious ally of the asexual is the openly Gay person. They know what it's like to battle expectations in others, they have strategies for defeating those expectations. They have won recognition as a legitimate sexuality most places in the western world (heh, they don't get slagged-off as "unnatural" or "doomed to die out"heh-heh (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12891689&postcount=8))
If you need a real-life ally in this sexual/asexual business, look around for your dykes and poofters. Preferably a whole room full of them, both kinds, discussing their mutual cause.

Get thee to a Gay club!)

And NO: You can ask that of individual people, but it's unlikely you'll just get it just by asking. Hey, ask politely, it works wonders in many things, but don't be disappointed when that fails. Perhaps a few years from now you could wear a colour, or a kind of hat, and be recognized as an "asexual" by some proportion of the population, but to ask all of society to instantly recognize and make allowance for your (and frankly, my) (a)sexual orientation?

That IS too much to ask. Look around NSG, all the high ideals. Shit, look anywhere. Wishing does not make it so. "Society" is six billion souls, growing every minute ... do what you think you should do, use your wits and the advantages you have by where you were born and by experience and by your talents to express yourself as well you can, to the limits of your conscience*. You go, girl.

But don't expect society to abase itself, kow-tow to your personal choice. That is not going to happen, and believing that it will is a blank cheque to your subconscious. "I want it so. Do whatever it takes."

Oh, and I really don't like the term "asexual" for "one who doesn't have sex."
Or even for "one who doesn't want or despises sex."
For starters, it's semantic: we will never be recognized as a legitimate sexuality if we define ourselves as entirely different from all sexualities. That is arrogant, it is also tactically foolish.

Also, I find "celibacy" more modest. I choose it, but I allow that deeper parts of my nature may over-ride my choice. My conscious mind may steer my sexuality, it makes choices as to my sexual activity, but it does not dictate to my sexuality. And it most certainly cannot pass a death-sentence on it.

Thank you for the advice. It's hard for me to hurt people's feelings, but if it's necessary then I can.

I suppose I'm celibate and asexual. The asexual part I didn't choose, and the celibate part I did.

No, but deaf people do. It's a raging debate when deaf parents will not want their deaf children to have their hearing fixed if that's possible. Some view it as a problem and some view it as a part of their identity.

People who are diagnosed with incurable and fatal illnesses erroneously famously become depressed when they find out. We naturally incorporate such things into our definition of ourselves. Often the "cure" is as jarring as discovering the "problem" in the first place. It's not as simple as "I define myself by this therefore it would be bad to change it."

Chandy defines herself as an asexual and I personally believe it's healthy to do so. However, if it turned out there was some physical or mental ailment that in the course of treatment would cause her to become a sexual being, I think it would be unhealthy to turn it down. At that point it becomes less about being who you are and about avoiding being some other sexual identity.

It's not simple and it's not clear, though some would make it seem so. I'll tell you now if they found a tumor in my brain that was causing me to be straight but also malignant in some way, I'd absolutely encourage them to remove the tumor and would be happily hitting on men the next day.

I embrace my sexuality because it's a part of me, but if "me" changed I'd embrace that too. That's a healthy response to the things that we have no reason to wish to control.

I suppose I'd have to accept it if it was necessary to save my life, but I'm not sure I'd feel like myself anymore. I'd still be celibate, but if I wasn't asexual it'd be weird to have to start dealing with such strange-sounding feelings.

Thank you for the advice. It's hard for me to hurt people's feelings, but if it's necessary then I can.

I suppose I'm celibate and asexual. The asexual part I didn't choose, and the celibate part I did.



I suppose I'd have to accept it if it was necessary to save my life, but I'm not sure I'd feel like myself anymore. I'd still be celibate, but if I wasn't asexual it'd be weird to have to start dealing with such strange-sounding feelings.
They're strange because you don't have them. They would be strange at first, but so would seeing if you'd been blind or hearing if you've never heard. And yes, many blind and deaf people would be very angry if you felt a lack of sexual attraction is not comparable to lack of sight or lack of hearing.

Imagine the adventure though. Imagine the adventure of seeing your first painting. Imagine the adventure of hearing your first symphony.

Couldn't it equally be like that? Why the assumption that such a thing would be so awful?

Couldn't it equally be like that? Why the assumption that such a thing would be so awful?

Because I don't want it, and it would only be able to cause me trouble. There'd be so many distractions and stuff that I don't have to deal with now.

I don't want to lose being me though.I don't really think you can. ;)

Identity is a funny thing. I think back to "me" at your age, and often I seem to be remembering a different person. I've learned so much since then, had so many life-altering experiences, engaged in much self-exploration. If I met my teenage "me" today, we'd probably seriously butt heads.

But does that mean I "lost" myself? No. That person and those experiences are still a part of the "story" of "me." When I think back to that time, I seem to see a different person... but I still refer to that person as "me" and I still recognize that without that person I wouldn't be who I am today.

Having grown up for much of your adolescence without sexual or romantic feelings, you are destined to have a very different perspective on sex than your peers even if your feelings change. Whereas some people (like me) will think back to their teenage years and shake their heads at how foolish I was about sex, how (falsely) important it seemed, indeed how I managed to hurt people rather badly over issues of sex and romance... you will (if you change), look back and think, "You know, I've always known that without sex life goes on. I've always known that I can have important friendships with people without being romantically attached or looking for sex. I've always known these things, because as a young adult I simply had no interest in sex."

Important lessons, indeed! And a good story. But don't assume you know how that story ends, especially when you're in the process of working out the details of the main character--you, that is, in the context of psychotherapy.

Your story might go on like this, "I still don't feel any interest in sex..." And that would be fine. You'd still be you.

Your story might also go on like this, "I still don't feel any real sexual attraction, but I have experimented with some friends I could trust..." (much as I've experimented with homosexuality without giving up anything of "me") And that would be fine. You'd still be you, but with different experiences.

Or your story might go on like this, "It took me a while, but eventually I opened up to sexual relations. It turns out I like boys/girls/both. But sex still isn't that important, and I've learned to look for other qualities in a person. In fact, I've only ever had sex with one person: the person I could trust the most, the person I've truly fallen in love with." And that would be fine. You'd still be you, but with different experiences.

Or something different. Who knows?

The point is that our sex drive and our romantic attachments are not what make any of us "who we are." They are experiences: sensations in body and mind that present us with choices. It's the choices that we make that decide who we are, and the stories that we tell ourselves about how we make them.

Because I don't want it, and it would only be able to cause me trouble. There'd be so many distractions and stuff that I don't have to deal with now.

These are more assumptions. They woundn't "only be able to cause you trouble" anymore than a symphony is or a painting. Sure, they distract you from some things, but there is so much more to them than that.

Would you be willing to be deaf just so POTO doesn't distract you so much? Would you give up all you know about art because it would allow you to be more focused on "more important" things.

Sure, sexual relationships are distractions. So are friendships, but because you desire those now, you don't lament them. And if you desired sexual relationships you wouldn't lament them either. There would be good ones and bad ones, like friendships, like art, like anything. But you start viewing all of these things as distractions you might as well start digging your grave cuz you're missing the entire point.

These are more assumptions. They woundn't "only be able to cause you trouble" anymore than a symphony is or a painting. Sure, they distract you from some things, but there is so much more to them than that.

Would you be willing to be deaf just so POTO doesn't distract you so much? Would you give up all you know about art because it would allow you to be more focused on "more important" things.

Sure, sexual relationships are distractions. So are friendships, but because you desire those now, you don't lament them. And if you desired sexual relationships you wouldn't lament them either. There would be good ones and bad ones, like friendships, like art, like anything. But you start viewing all of these things as distractions you might as well start digging your grave cuz you're missing the entire point.

Ok. This kind of makes sense. Thank you. I still don't want to change though.

That's great. Admirable really. If you're asexual, don't do it half-assed; I say, be militantly asexual! That doesn't mean be a jerk about it, just don't be timid, either. You know, assert your asexuality.

No, but deaf people do. It's a raging debate when deaf parents will not want their deaf children to have their hearing fixed if that's possible. Some view it as a problem and some view it as a part of their identity.

But isn't that forcing your identity on your children instead?

Chandy defines herself as an asexual and I personally believe it's healthy to do so. However, if it turned out there was some physical or mental ailment that in the course of treatment would cause her to become a sexual being, I think it would be unhealthy to turn it down. At that point it becomes less about being who you are and about avoiding being some other sexual identity.

Well yeah, my continued existence takes priority over that part of me as well. But there are things that I would die over. Personally I'd rather die as myself than live as everything I hate. But that's different to this I think. It really depends on what it is and just how strongly you feel about it.

Because I don't want it, and it would only be able to cause me trouble. There'd be so many distractions and stuff that I don't have to deal with now.

It's not that bad. You can learn to adapt to it and fit around it just like any other distraction. For example this place is a distraction and if I'm working every now and again I lose concentration completely until I give in and wander around the net for a bit. My solution - I work in front of the computer and spend a few minutes every now and then using it, that way it's easier to fade in and out of work because the two places I'm zipping between are right next to each other. I'd provide an example related to the topic but I can't think of one right now.

[...]
It's not that bad. You can learn to adapt to it and fit around it just like any other distraction. For example this place is a distraction and if I'm working every now and again I lose concentration completely until I give in and wander around the net for a bit. My solution - I work in front of the computer and spend a few minutes every now and then using it, that way it's easier to fade in and out of work because the two places I'm zipping between are right next to each other. I'd provide an example related to the topic but I can't think of one right now.

Sure you can, you just don't want to gross Chandelier out ....

My psych recently drew my attention to the way I do just what you have described. I'd always considered myself to have a terrific attention-span (reading books or working for instance) but when I looked a bit more closely at my habits, I realized that I'm usually splitting my attention between several things (eg listening to music or pondering stuff completely unrelated to what's in front of me.)

My psych tried to suggest that I may have been managing ADHD for myself, pretty much since childhood. I don't think I really accept that, though. That "attention splitting" or "multi-tasking" is too common in people to be considered a disease in itself I think.

One thing NSG has done for me is destroy the stupid habit I had of having trashy TV on all the time. I concentrate a lot better without it, but instead I have to take breaks (I've been cleaning my room this morning, for instance.)

EDIT: AnarchyeL's last post was terrific, it seemed to apply nicely to myself. I'd like to know where that idea of "making your own life story" comes from. Anything I can read ?

My psych recently drew my attention to the way I do just what you have described. I'd always considered myself to have a terrific attention-span (reading books or working for instance) but when I looked a bit more closely at my habits, I realized that I'm usually splitting my attention between several things (eg listening to music or pondering stuff completely unrelated to what's in front of me.)

I haven't been doing that until recently, when I realized that when I was trying to work after a while my mind would start wandering and productivity would just stop. I studied for exams in front of my monitor and got the most work done I've gotten done in quite a while.

It's not that bad. You can learn to adapt to it and fit around it just like any other distraction. For example this place is a distraction and if I'm working every now and again I lose concentration completely until I give in and wander around the net for a bit. My solution - I work in front of the computer and spend a few minutes every now and then using it, that way it's easier to fade in and out of work because the two places I'm zipping between are right next to each other. I'd provide an example related to the topic but I can't think of one right now.

Ok. I tend to do that, too. I seem to get more work done that way while still not getting too bored.

But isn't that forcing your identity on your children instead?



Well yeah, my continued existence takes priority over that part of me as well. But there are things that I would die over. Personally I'd rather die as myself than live as everything I hate. But that's different to this I think. It really depends on what it is and just how strongly you feel about it.

There is the point. The only rational reason to avoid the treatment is if you have rational reason to hate sexuality.

sounds to me like your mother has the unresolved issue to me.... like maybe vicariously suggesting something to you. i have a suggestion for ya...... why not ask her straight out what her agenda is? i mean, she is your mother and you guys should be able to talk candidly about this subject or any others. and if you don't have that kind of relationship, then i think you should work on that.

I'd like to know where that idea of "making your own life story" comes from. Anything I can read ?Sure, there's a lot out there about "narrative" and "narrative knowledge." One of the best from a philosophical/historical perspective is The Truth about Stories: A Native Narrative, by Thomas King.

On the other hand, it sounds like you may be more interested in the psychological aspect of narrative theory. In that case, you should still read The Truth about Stories--it's just an excellent, excellent book, and it's tangentially related to the more psychological stuff. As for that, there's a lot out there that interprets the psychoanalytic tradition in particular as well as other traditions in psychotherapy as dealing at least partially with the stories a person tells about her/himself. It's especially applicable to the analytic situation in that, when a person uncovers repressed memories or recalls childhood events that they haven't thought about for years, the repression can (from a certain point of view) be said to arise from a crisis in narrative: a person experiences events (e.g. trauma) that "don't fit" with other aspects of how they he/she has learned to view the world, how he/she feels about her/himself or about others (e.g. parents). So the person "cuts out" that memory, represses those feelings, etc.

A key aspect of recovery may be to learn to tell oneself a story that fits in the excluded chapters in a sensible, healthy way.

I can't think of anything offhand from this literature, though The Reproduction of Evil: A Clinical and Cultural Perspective by Sue Grand would at least fit on the margins somewhere. In a certain sense it's about how the narrative breaks down for victims of trauma in such a way that many victims wind up recreating their own nightmare by inflicting it on others, acting and re-enacting a story that has no good ending.

If you send me a telegram, when I have a chance I'll think about some more and send you some recommendations.