NationStates Jolt Archive

Falwell in 'Gravely Serious' Condition
Published: 5/15/07, 1:06 PM EDT


LYNCHBURG, Va. (AP) - The Rev. Jerry Falwell was hospitalized in "gravely serious" condition after being found unconscious in his office Tuesday, a Liberty University executive said.

Ron Godwin, the executive vice president of Falwell's Liberty University, said Falwell was found unresponsive around 10:45 a.m. and taken to Lynchburg General Hospital. Godwin said he was not sure what caused the collapse, but "he has a history of heart challenges."

"I had breakfast with him, and he was fine at breakfast," Godwin said. "He went to his office, I went to mine and they found him unresponsive."

Godwin said Falwell was receiving emergency care. A hospital spokeswoman said she had "no information to release at this time" on Falwell

Falwell, a television evangelist who founded the Moral Majority, became the face of the religious right in the 1980s. He later founded the conservative Liberty University and serves as its president.

Falwell survived two serious health scares in early 2005. He was hospitalized for two weeks with what was described as a viral infection, then hospitalized again a few weeks later after going into respiratory arrest.


Linky (http://home.bellsouth.net/s/editorial.dll?pnum=1&bfromind=7401&eeid=5214587&_sitecat=1522&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=-2&ck=&ch=ne&rg=blsadstrgt)

So this be the end of Falwell...
Will anyone really miss him?

Doesn't it just suck when bad things happen to bad people?

As much as I loathe him I do hope he recovers.

He's too hilarious.

I'll bet that if he dies, the major media outlets will completely ignore his post 9/11 "liberals were responsible" comments.

Maybe 'God' got tired of Falwell being around and decided to deal with the problem. ;)

I bet all the liberal, God Hating scum are cheering right about now.

I'm not. Irrespective of how much of a turd Falwell is, I don't rejoice at anyone's death, or impending death.

I bet all the liberal, God Hating scum are cheering right about now.

You'd have to believe in god in order to hate god. Besides, why would liberals cheer? I mean this is the man who said a fucking TELETUBBY was gay! He's a comedic genius.

I bet all the liberal, God Hating scum are cheering right about now.

If you hate God, you love Falwell, and vice versa.

He's nowhere near bad enough for me to rejoice over his death.

He's nowhere near bad enough for me to rejoice over his death.

Exactly. I don't care either way. Sure I don't wish death upon him but I don't care if he dies either.

Well, the original article was Godwined, so that throws anything I had to say out the window.

Still, no matter what Jerry Falwell has done or encouraged, he should get better. No one is beyond redemption, and you cannot redempt if you're dead.

Maybe he needs to lay off the Oxy.

You'd have to believe in god in order to hate god. Besides, why would liberals cheer? I mean this is the man who said a fucking TELETUBBY was gay! He's a comedic genius.


Why would they cheer? Because liberalism is anti-religion. and when a religious figure dies, liberals rejoice! Did you know that the Jews and Romans were liberals, because they cheered as they killed Prophet Isa(as)?

I bet all the liberal, God Hating scum are cheering right about now.

Yes, because all Christian's are right-wing hate mongerers. :rolleyes:

Because liberalism is anti-religion. and when a religious figure dies, liberals rejoice!

I'm a liberal Christian, what does that make me?

Why would they cheer? Because liberalism is anti-religion. and when a religious figure dies, liberals rejoice! Did you know that the Jews and Romans were liberals, because they cheered as they killed Prophet Isa(as)?
You have to try to be this absurd.

Why would they cheer? Because liberalism is anti-religion. and when a religious figure dies, liberals rejoice! Did you know that the Jews and Romans were liberals, because they cheered as they killed Prophet Isa(as)?
Yeah--because that Martin Luther King Jr. guy was such a fucking atheist. :rolleyes:

Why would they cheer? Because liberalism is anti-religion. and when a religious figure dies, liberals rejoice! Did you know that the Jews and Romans were liberals, because they cheered as they killed Prophet Isa(as)?

Liberals are not anti-religion.

There are plenty of religious liberals. They just choose not to toot their own horn and don't try to impose a set of moral rules on the rest of the world.

And source your bullshit comment. That is a rather broad sweeping generalisation and it had no substance, making your comment very trollish. Now back it up or go back under your bridge.

There is zero proof that liberalism equals anti-religion. Political affiliation has jack shit to do with religious beliefs.

I bet all the liberal, God Hating scum are cheering right about now.

I'm not a liberal, and I've never met a God in order to hate One, but yep, I'm glad. What do you call one dead televangelist? A good start ;)

He's dead. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18679412/)

He's dead. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18679412/)

My condolences to his family, but I'm sure not going to miss him.

He's dead. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18679412/)

I feel bad for the family. The death of a loved one is never easy. Even if the man was a braying jackass, he was still a father, husband and grandfather to those around him.

They just announced Jerry Falwell died. Some will miss him, others will not, and some don't care.

He's dead. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18679412/)

according to that article, he,as well as this thread was Godwinned.

Good. Now maybe the cable networks will move on from their Paris Hilton "Countdown to Jail" bonanza.

I feel bad for the family. The death of a loved one is never easy. Even if the man was a braying jackass, he was still a father, husband and grandfather to those around him.

Yep, politics aside it's a rough day for his family.

The Teletubbies are not impressed.

He's dead. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18679412/)

Well, it's nearly summer, and we're runnin' out of ice...

Ignore me, I can't figure out where to post shit most days...

buh bye

condolences to the family though.

Well, it's nearly summer, and we're runnin' out of ice...

What? Can't you make more?

I rarely say this but....the world will be better off without.

I bet all the liberal, God Hating scum are cheering right about now.

I don't hate what I consider to be imaginary beings. That would be kind of crazy. I'm not cheering either. Everybody dies, and he didn't matter to me in life. Why would I celebrate his death?

Who?

He's dead. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18679412/)

He wasn't exactly my most favourite person, but I hope he rests in peace.

Why would they cheer? Because liberalism is anti-religion. and when a religious figure dies, liberals rejoice! Did you know that the Jews and Romans were liberals, because they cheered as they killed Prophet Isa(as)?

I wonder how you would react if someone said religion was anti-science and when a brilliant scientist dies the religious rejoice. It's no dumber than what you said about Liberals after all.

Time for Jerry Falwell Bye Bye!
Time for Jerry Falwell Bye Bye!

http://br.geocities.com/netmillenium2/Inutili/teleflag.jpg

He wasn't exactly my most favourite person, but I hope he rests in peace.

I concur.

Time for Jerry Falwell Bye Bye!
Time for Jerry Falwell Bye Bye!

http://br.geocities.com/netmillenium2/Inutili/teleflag.jpg

Tacky.

What? Can't you make more?

No, I'm not Jesus The Miracle Caterer. Didn't you bother to pack a lunch?

Who?

A Christian wanker who wished to instill "morality" to the US. If you ever heard of the phrase the "moral majority;" that was his group.

He once claimed that a great day would happen when the public school system would be replaced by Bible schools......

Tacky.

I had to Godwin this thread pre-emptively.

...liberalism is anti-religion...Did you know that the Jews and the Romans were liberals

Jews are/were anti-religion?...I'm gonna eat my own head now

Who?
This guy

http://i8.tinypic.com/62pnhc0.jpg

He wasn't exactly my most favourite person, but I hope he rests in peace.

Well, I for one certainly don't want him coming back.

Well, I for one certainly don't want him coming back.

Gods that'd be ironic, if Falwell was really the second coming.

He's dead. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18679412/)

I know that I should feel some kind of pity for the family at least for their loss but I just can't manage it. I think this country will be just a little better now that he is gone. Faking it would be dishonest.

I know that I should feel some kind of pity for the family at least for their loss but I just can't manage it. I think this country will be just a little better now that he is gone. Faking it would be dishonest.

Don't hold your breath. Some new psycho fundie is going to take over and things won't get any better.

Condolences to his family.

Next up: Pat Robertson and James Dobson.

It's a good thing for the US that he's gone, certainly, but I can't help but feel for his family and loved ones...

Gods that'd be ironic, if Falwell was really the second coming.

I was thinking zombie-Falwell myself but that works too.

It's a good thing for the US that he's gone, certainly, but I can't help but feel for his family and loved ones...

Agreed.

One down, a few more to go. It's terrible to revel in some one's death, but sometimes you just can't help but be glad they are dead anyway.

Next up: Pat Robertson and James Dobson.

How could you have forgotten Fred Phelps?

*smack*

How could you have forgotten Fred Phelps?

*smack*

Who the hell are you and what have you done with Deep Kimchi and Eve Online? :D

Yeeeeehaw!

I gotta go buy a cowboy hat so I can swing it around!

Did the guy have many supporters?

Falwell is dead!?
...
Falwell is dead...
Wow.
When I made the thread I didn't expect that to happen, seriously.

How could you have forgotten Fred Phelps?

*smack*

Bah, even many religious conservatives want him dead. Dobson and Robertson on the other hand have a lot more power.

I wonder how the religious right would react if these three characters all died around the same time. A sign that god's not pleased with them perhaps? Hmm... a man can dream.

Gods that'd be ironic, if Falwell was really the second coming.

Irony shouldn't be that cruel.

How could you have forgotten Fred Phelps?

*smack*

Should he ever gain such prominence I'm curling up into the fetal position and will wait for the coming worlds end.

Did the guy have many supporters?

Enough to start a university of sorts.

How could you have forgotten Fred Phelps?

*smack*

Phelps isn't even a major religious leader, just a loudmouth with a large extended family that follows him around.

Good riddance to shitty rubbish, but RIP nevertheless.

Well, he's dead.

A pity, really. I mean, the irony of his ending up in a Persistent Vegetative State would have been delicious. ;)

Phelps isn't even a major religious leader, just a loudmouth with a large extended family that follows him around.

And he only talks about gays really. More so than some LGBT activists, probably.

The other buffoons include a lot more in their bs: evolution, moral decay, protecting the childrens, and so on. Still not varied, but more so than Mr. Phelps and his inbred family.

Can someone say...

Ding dong!

I won't diginfy that man by bothering to care that he's dead.

A little bit of America died today.

Fortunately, that bit was cancerous, so all is well.

Well, I for one certainly don't want him coming back.

ZOMG! *waits for someone to photoshop a Zombie Falwell*

I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say ‘you helped this happen.’
Since you're not likely to see it on the news or read it in the stories about his life, I figured I'd repost it here.

Despite what most of you think, he was a great man. I know that he was not perfect but he fought for what he believed was right. There is no reason for you people to hate him. Just because he stood for something that some people "mainly the media that spreads liberal propaganda" do not agree does not give anyone a right to hate him. I will miss him and wish that more people would be more like him. Just as a side note, even though you all seem to hate the man, he would still show you the Love of God.

Since you're not likely to see it on the news or read it in the stories about his life, I figured I'd repost it here.
I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say ‘you helped this happen.’


Ill just quote it in case anybody misses it while scanning down the page....

I'd say the overall IQ of the states has risen with his passing....

Then there's the Python version...

He's not pining! He's passed on! This preacher is no more! He's ceased to be! He has expired! The preacher has gone to meet his maker! This is a late preacher! It's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace!

I seriously hope I don't wake up...

Draconicopia;12652720']Despite what most of you think, he was a great man. I know that he was not perfect but he fought for what he believed was right. There is no reason for you people to hate him. Just because he stood for something that some people "mainly the media that spreads liberal propaganda" do not agree does not give anyone a right to hate him. I will miss him and wish that more people would be more like him. Just as a side note, even though you all seem to hate the man, he would still show you the Love of God.

Yeah, the love of god. The way god so loved the American people that he sent suicide hijackers to kill three thousand of us because of some upity broads, some non believers and a few homos in our midst.

Seriously, he wasn't a great man. He was ordinary and a bit bigoted. Nothing special. Nothing worth hating or admiring.

ZOMG! *waits for someone to photoshop a Zombie Falwell*

Now that WOULD be frightening! Could be the next horror flick. "George Romero's Night that Falwell Revived To Scare Children And Small Animals". :D

Draconicopia;12652720']Despite what most of you think, he was a great man. I know that he was not perfect but he fought for what he believed was right. There is no reason for you people to hate him. Just because he stood for something that some people "mainly the media that spreads liberal propaganda" do not agree does not give anyone a right to hate him. I will miss him and wish that more people would be more like him. Just as a side note, even though you all seem to hate the man, he would still show you the Love of God.

Arg...and I can't even accuse you of trolling, because you're just eulogizing the guy.

Honestly? On one hand, the guy was a total jerk who spewed hot air. I'm glad he shut up.

On the other hand, death is not something to be celebrated except in very specific circumstances. We get bin Laden and kill that fucker, and we can cheer. Falwell? Not so much.

On a third hand, I'm disappointed. I was hoping it was Phelps instead. But I'm sure that asshole's too annoying even for Satan.

On a fourth hand, I don't have that many hands. Apparently God/Mother Nature/million of years of evolution decided I only need two. Oh well.

A little bit of America died today.

Fortunately, that bit was cancerous, so all is well.

I like you! You're silly but accurate! :D

Yeah, the love of god. The way god so loved the American people that he sent suicide hijackers to kill three thousand of us because of some upity broads, some non believers and a few homos in our midst.


Who would have thought a few 'bra-waving pill poppers', men dancing with no shirts on and tree hugging would have wrought such a smiting...(well, apart from Jerry...and Phelps).....

Draconicopia;12652720']Despite what most of you think, he was a great man. I know that he was not perfect but he fought for what he believed was right. There is no reason for you people to hate him. Just because he stood for something that some people "mainly the media that spreads liberal propaganda" do not agree does not give anyone a right to hate him. I will miss him and wish that more people would be more like him. Just as a side note, even though you all seem to hate the man, he would still show you the Love of God.

No. He blamed 9/11 on the fact that the US weren't intollerant enough. That's not the love of God, that's the hate of the Devil.

Goddamnit. Every single time someone dies, no matter how much I hate and despise them, I feel sad. Bloody hell.

Granted, it only lasted a minute at most.

Bah, even many religious conservatives want him dead. Dobson and Robertson on the other hand have a lot more power.

I wonder how the religious right would react if these three characters all died around the same time. A sign that god's not pleased with them perhaps? Hmm... a man can dream.

They would blame the "liberal conspiracy."

Goddamnit. Every single time someone dies, no matter how much I hate and despise them, I feel sad. Bloody hell.

Granted, it only lasted a minute at most.

It's called not being an emotionless asshole. Welcome to the world of human emotion.

Goddamnit. Every single time someone dies, no matter how much I hate and despise them, I feel sad. Bloody hell.

Granted, it only lasted a minute at most.Because after that minute you realized who died?

It's called not being an emotionless asshole. Welcome to the world of human emotion.

Hey... Did you just imply I'm an emotionless asshole???

That's preposterous! I'm not emotionless!

I just misplaced it. :D

Hey... Did you just imply I'm an emotionless asshole???

That's preposterous! I'm not emotionless!

I just misplaced it. :D

Implied or implode...

I bet all the liberal, God Hating scum are cheering right about now.

I hate to admit it, but I read this and thought how wonderful it is that this man will cease to press his agenda. I can think of no more damaging person to the cause of the spreading the Good News than Falwell. I believe in free speech but I also would have looked the other way if some grieving mother had pounded this guy into a mud puddle one of the times he was picketing a soldier's funeral. If Falwell had done this at a funeral of me or one of my brother's by the time my mother was done with him he'd sprout horns and a pointy tail.

And I'm a Christian. And a soldier. And a believer in rights and loving your neighbor and the golden rule. It's precisely this reason that I think this man doesn't deserve to share the planet with us. And if I were as hateful and awful as he is, I'd fully encourage you to feel the same way about me.

/rant

EDIT: Dagnabbit, I thought it was Phelps. Nevermind. I offer the resounding "meh".

Whether you agreed or disagreed with the man, everybody who just takes this opportunity to make nasty jokes or talk about how wonderful the world is without him ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

I was no follower of Jerry Falwell, but that doesn't mean I take pleasure in his passing. I think if you do, you're sick.

Everybody's right to free speech should be respected huh? Well heaven forbid anyone say things you don't like or you dance on his grave. What it must be like to hold oneself as so morally superior.

No. He blamed 9/11 on the fact that the US weren't intollerant enough. That's not the love of God, that's the hate of the Devil.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/14/Falwell.apology/

This is where he says his apology. If you are going to say something against a man you should not ignore things. And just so you know he was condemning the actions and the people.

Whether you agreed or disagreed with the man, everybody who just takes this opportunity to make nasty jokes or talk about how wonderful the world is without him ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

I was no follower of Jerry Falwell, but that doesn't mean I take pleasure in his passing. I think if you do, you're sick.

Everybody's right to free speech should be respected huh? Well heaven forbid anyone say things you don't like or you dance on his grave. What it must be like to hold oneself as so morally superior.

We take pleasure in a world devoid of his nastiness, much like I feel about other people who spread hate and awfulness. I would prefer this happened through a revelation on his part, but absent that, I am happy that the message dies, however that happens.

Side note: I also will be glad when the world no longer has to stomach Bin Laden, Phelps, Buxh (but I'm willing to just wait two years for that one), and anyone else who subjects to a dangerous agenda of self-righteousness.

Since you're not likely to see it on the news or read it in the stories about his life, I figured I'd repost it here.Thanks for that. Too much of the media will, now that he's dead, suffer from amnesia of what a total prick he was.

Draconicopia;12652720'].. Just as a side note, even though you all seem to hate the man, he would still show you the Love of God.Um yeah, if you define "Love of God" as insisting that I remain a second-, if not third-, class citizen. Or if "Love of God" has come to mean accusing me of causing 9/11, Katrina, AIDS, and the gods know what else. The man was a douche. What he "showed" us in ever so many ways that he had no understanding whatsoever of the meaning of the phrase "love of God".

We take pleasure in a world devoid of his nastiness, much like I feel about other people who spread hate and awfulness. I would prefer this happened through a revelation on his part, but absent that, I am happy that the message dies, however that happens.

Side note: I also will be glad when the world no longer has to stomach Bin Laden, Phelps, Buxh (but I'm willing to just wait two years for that one), and anyone else who subjects to a dangerous agenda of self-righteousness.

And you call THEM self-righteous.

Send me your address. I think I have a spare mirror I can give you as a gift.

Draconicopia;12652720']Despite what most of you think, he was a great man. I know that he was not perfect but he fought for what he believed was right. There is no reason for you people to hate him. Just because he stood for something that some people "mainly the media that spreads liberal propaganda" do not agree does not give anyone a right to hate him. I will miss him and wish that more people would be more like him. Just as a side note, even though you all seem to hate the man, he would still show you the Love of God.

Unfortunately, I think this is precisely why he was so damaging to Christian belief in the US, because people actually believe he reflected the love of God. Jerry Falwell wouldn't know the love of a two-bit prostitute if she bit him, let alone the glory that is the love of God. It's offensive and absurd to suggest that what he stood for or what he did had anything to do with love of any sort, other than perhaps self-love.

And you call THEM self-righteous.

Send me your address. I think I have a spare mirror I can give you as a gift.

Meh. My self-righteousness will never deny people life or freedom. My self-righteousness will never hurt others. My self-righteousness will never show the world a man who spouts nothing but hate and call it "Christian Love". For each of these things, I thank God. And if my self-righteousness (apparently any strong feelings against people who actually influence policy in a way that denies rights is self-righteousness) ever has any of these effects, please feel free to wish the same fate for me.

You'll notice that I never said someone should kill them or anything of the sort. I simply won't mourn them if it's the only way they'll stop their dangerous agendas. I'm sorry if that bothers you. I suppose I'm self-righteous for being glad that Hitler failed, that Stalin failed, etc. Silly, self-righteous me.

Meh. My self-righteousness will never deny people life or freedom. My self-righteousness will never hurt others.


Better be sure about that.

My self-righteousness will never show the world a man who spouts nothing but hate and call it "Christian Love". For each of these things, I thank God. And if my self-righteousness (apparently any strong feelings against people who actually influence policy in a way that denies rights is self-righteousness) ever has any of these effects, please feel free to wish the same fate for me.

I'm sorry you think I'd do so.

HE"S DEAD!

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/05/15/falwell-ill.html

wow news really travels fast....

Better be sure about that.

I'm quite certain. Nothing I believe will ever be forced on others. I'm a huge believe in freedom. This precludes the forcing of my beliefs.


I'm sorry you think I'd do so.

I love how you say this, but I'm the one who is self-righteous? I'm not judging them because I disagree with what they have to say. I'm judging them for their actions, their very real effect on the world that is dangerous and directly costs freedoms and lives. Yes, I hold people responsible for their ACTIONS. You're calling me to task for my thoughts. Are you sure you want to compare the two?

HE"S DEAD!

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/05/15/falwell-ill.html

wow news really travels fast....

Wow. As I said, I'd prefer that he'd recanted or in some retracted his hateful claims, but I am glad this rather powerful man will not longer forward his agenda on the world.

Everybody's right to free speech should be respected huh? Well heaven forbid anyone say things you don't like or you dance on his grave. What it must be like to hold oneself as so morally superior.

You seem to be confused as to the meaning of free speech my friend. Free speech means that we accept somebody's right to say something; we are not obliged to agree with them or to be nice to them if they use their freedom to spread hatred and bigotry.

Hmm... Let me strengthen my earlier statement:

I think we should be mourning Jerry Falwell's death. What he deserved was not death, it was to become a vegetable! I mean, let him "live" forever in that state, just like he would have wanted! Besides, then his foundation, or his followers would have to pay to support him. Better money goes to that purpose than spreading his lies and drivel.

Whether you agreed or disagreed with the man, everybody who just takes this opportunity to make nasty jokes or talk about how wonderful the world is without him ought to be ashamed of yourselves...
Why should we fear the improvement of the world through death? As precious as life is, sometimes it can cause conflict. When it grows spiteful and malignant, it causes harm. Like all good things, it can be misused, and when this misuse is solved one way or the other, it is no bad thing to express relief that it has ended. In fact, it is essential. We must use our memory of the past to prevent its recurrance in our own lives. Doing this requires accepting that the things in the past, whether decisions, attitudes or people themselves, have caused harm, and building a resolve against them.

I agree that one should respect the life he led, but we must be allowed to remember and throw down the great evils that he espoused. Otherwise, his life will have ended having contributed only great hatred to the world around him.

Hmm... Let me strengthen my earlier statement:

I think we should be mourning Jerry Falwell's death. What he deserved was not death, it was to become a vegetable! I mean, let him "live" forever in that state, just like he would have wanted! Besides, then his foundation, or his followers would have to pay to support him. Better money goes to that purpose than spreading his lies and drivel.

I wouldn't wish that fate on anyone, although if anyone deserved it it would have been Falwell.

You seem to be confused as to the meaning of free speech my friend. Free speech means that we accept somebody's right to say something; we are not obliged to agree with them or to be nice to them if they use their freedom to spread hatred and bigotry.

I see what you're getting at, but I'm not calling people out for failing to agree with him or whatever. It's the fact that if it weren't Jerry Falwell who died but let's say it was some public figure who was popular in the gay community or abortion rights or whatever issue was opposite Falwell's views, and there were people celebrating THAt person's death, some of the same people you see posting happy posts on here would be morally outraged. I find that hypocritical.

And I find hypocrisy most often centers around people's desire to silene those who disagree with them while insisting that they be allowed to speak without restriction, even civility.

Why should we fear the improvement of the world through death? As precious as life is, sometimes it can cause conflict. When it grows spiteful and malignant, it causes harm. Like all good things, it can be misused, and when this misuse is solved one way or the other, it is no bad thing to express relief that it has ended. In fact, it is essential. We must use our memory of the past to prevent its recurrance in our own lives. Doing this requires accepting that the things in the past, whether decisions, attitudes or people themselves, have caused harm, and building a resolve against them.

I agree that one should respect the life he led, but we must be allowed to remember and throw down the great evils that he espoused. Otherwise, his life will have ended having contributed only great hatred to the world around him.

Frankly, I can understand why someone who disagreed strongly with Falwell's message might perceive him as causing harm and evil. At the same time, what you're doing here is rationalizing. It's an opportinity for you to actually take the moral high ground and it's being squandered.

Because liberalism is anti-religion. Did you know that the Jews ... were liberals

Did anyone else notice this?

I see what you're getting at, but I'm not calling people out for failing to agree with him or whatever. It's the fact that if it weren't Jerry Falwell who died but let's say it was some public figure who was popular in the gay community or abortion rights or whatever issue was opposite Falwell's views, and there were people celebrating THAt person's death, some of the same people you see posting happy posts on here would be morally outraged. I find that hypocritical.

And I find hypocrisy most often centers around people's desire to silene those who disagree with them while insisting that they be allowed to speak without restriction, even civility.

This isn't about disagreement. He was harmful. Actively and dangerously harmful. Yes, it's true that the rights and lives of millions of people are more important to me than his. This may be a tragedy for his family but it's certainly a boon for anyone who loves freedom or the idea of a loving Christianity.

I'm also a hypocrite in that if I the only way for a child molester to stop molesting children is to die, that I would be glad for their death as well. Yes, I'm weird like that. I would not however be glad for the death of a person who simply believe sex with children was okay. We are applauding an end to Falwell's actions, not his beliefs.

I see what you're getting at, but I'm not calling people out for failing to agree with him or whatever. It's the fact that if it weren't Jerry Falwell who died but let's say it was some public figure who was popular in the gay community or abortion rights or whatever issue was opposite Falwell's views, and there were people celebrating THAt person's death, some of the same people you see posting happy posts on here would be morally outraged. I find that hypocritical.

Not hypocritical even in the tineist little bit. If you can't see the glaring difference between the life's work of someone who works to further civil liberties, and the life's work of someone who works to limit them, I really feel sorry for you.

This isn't about disagreement. He was harmful. Actively and dangerously harmful. Yes, it's true that the rights and lives of millions of people are more important to me than his. This may be a tragedy for his family but it's certainly a boon for anyone who loves freedom or the idea of a loving Christianity.

If, hypothetically, it turns out that he was murdered, would you want to punish or praise the killer?

I see what you're getting at, but I'm not calling people out for failing to agree with him or whatever. It's the fact that if it weren't Jerry Falwell who died but let's say it was some public figure who was popular in the gay community or abortion rights or whatever issue was opposite Falwell's views, and there were people celebrating THAt person's death, some of the same people you see posting happy posts on here would be morally outraged. I find that hypocritical.
Remembering one's life in all of its aspects is important. I would far rather the person live on in infamy than be lost to the sands of time; lessons are to be learned from them both good and bad, and far better that some are retained than none.

If, hypothetically, it turns out that he was murdered, would you want to punish or praise the killer?

punish, of course. Regardless of the evil acts of the man, nobody is above the law.

I see what you're getting at, but I'm not calling people out for failing to agree with him or whatever. It's the fact that if it weren't Jerry Falwell who died but let's say it was some public figure who was popular in the gay community or abortion rights or whatever issue was opposite Falwell's views, and there were people celebrating THAt person's death, some of the same people you see posting happy posts on here would be morally outraged. I find that hypocritical.

And I find hypocrisy most often centers around people's desire to silene those who disagree with them while insisting that they be allowed to speak without restriction, even civility.

Your above assertion is hypothetical and therefore unprovable. Therefore, it is in no way a fact. At least, unless you are claiming clairvoyance?:p

Your above assertion is hypothetical and therefore unprovable. Therefore, it is in no way a fact. At least, unless you are claiming clairvoyance?:p

It is hypothetical in a sense, but based on observations of past events, therefore it's a valid assertion. Are you suggesting that it's untrue?

Remembering one's life in all of its aspects is important. I would far rather the person live on in infamy than be lost to the sands of time; lessons are to be learned from them both good and bad, and far better that some are retained than none.

With that, I agree completely. That's why I find the celebration so distasteful.

I see what you're getting at, but I'm not calling people out for failing to agree with him or whatever. It's the fact that if it weren't Jerry Falwell who died but let's say it was some public figure who was popular in the gay community or abortion rights or whatever issue was opposite Falwell's views, and there were people celebrating THAt person's death, some of the same people you see posting happy posts on here would be morally outraged. I find that hypocritical.

How far do you want to push this? Would it be hypocritical to be outraged when people celebrated the death of a gay rights campaigner, while celebrating the death of, for example, Osama bin Laden? How about Hitler?

And I find hypocrisy most often centers around people's desire to silene those who disagree with them while insisting that they be allowed to speak without restriction, even civility.

That would seem to describe the attitude of Falwell and his mob.

It is hypothetical in a sense, but based on observations of past events, therefore it's a valid assertion. Are you suggesting that it's untrue?

I, personally, am suggesting that falwell is deserving of far less praise, and far more condemnation, than the examples you created.

Yes, I would attack those who celebrated the death of a well known civil rights leader

On the other hand I see nothing particularly wrong with not overly caring about the death of someone who took great efforts to limit civil rights.

That is the key difference, and the one that makes your "omg hypocracy!" argument bullshit.

If, hypothetically, it turns out that he was murdered, would you want to punish or praise the killer?

Punish, although the two are not mutually exclusive.

Frankly, I can understand why someone who disagreed strongly with Falwell's message might perceive him as causing harm and evil. At the same time, what you're doing here is rationalizing. It's an opportinity for you to actually take the moral high ground and it's being squandered.

Not rationalizing... simply stating a point of view. Many people disagreed strongly with Falwell's messages of hate and bigotry, and to simply say so again after the man died is not "moral low ground". It would be hypocrasy to say nice things about him just because he is now dead.

How far do you want to push this? Would it be hypocritical to be outraged when people celebrated the death of a gay rights campaigner, while celebrating the death of, for example, Osama bin Laden? How about Hitler?

That's a really good point, and I admit that I wasn't sorry to see Saddam Hussein go, nor would I be at the demise of Bin Laden.. but at the same time, you won't find any posts by me about how wonderful it was to see Saddam hang, etc.

Just realize... I'm not asking people to mourn the guy. If you're not sorry to seem him go you're not sorry... but celebrating it, it just sticks in my craw. Most of the people that hated Falwell hated him for daring to hold views in opposition to their own. That was his right. He exercised it. I'm no fan of his views and I'm not out there holding a candle for him, but at least if I say I'm not sorry to see Saddam or Bin Laden go, I'm talking about guys who used their power to cause the deaths of innocent people.

To equate them is utterly absurd.

I mean, doesn't it strike you as bizarre that a guy who speaks out his politics is demonized to the SAME level as mass murderers?


That would seem to describe the attitude of Falwell and his mob.

Possibly so. Does that make it right?

Frankly, I can understand why someone who disagreed strongly with Falwell's message might perceive him as causing harm and evil. At the same time, what you're doing here is rationalizing. It's an opportinity for you to actually take the moral high ground and it's being squandered.
I care not for the moral high ground. It is not my place to seek righteousness, or to try to "win" this discussion. All I feel is that it is a good thing to celebrate this man's death and life alike, for to celebrate either is to joyously preserve that which can be learned from what he stood for and its consequences. In the end, if it means passing on the mythology of the past to the people of the future, then it is something I wish to encourage.

I'm talking about guys who used their power to cause the deaths of innocent people.

An argument can, and has very often been made, that the evangelical right power base, of which falwell was an influential member, was responsible for getting Bush into office, which has resulted in the war in Iraq, and scores of dead innocents.

It is hypothetical in a sense, but based on observations of past events, therefore it's a valid assertion. Are you suggesting that it's untrue?


If you've observed past events that support your assertion, then present evidence of their occurrence. In other words, if you believe that anyone who in this thread shows positive sentiments connected to Falwell's death has shown outrage at positive sentiments being espoused as a result of the death of a public figure who was the "opposite" of Jerry Falwell, prove it. Otherwise, retract the statement.

If something has yet to happen, then a statement that it will happen has no truth value. It can be neither true nor false because it is an opinion. Presenting an opinion as a fact is dishonest, both intellectually and otherwise.

To answer your above question: Show evidence of the events you claim to have observed. Until then, your assertion's validity is (at best) questionable. Questionable evidence should not be used to bolster an argument.

I, personally, am suggesting that falwell is deserving of far less praise, and far more condemnation, than the examples you created.

Yes, I would attack those who celebrated the death of a well known civil rights leader

On the other hand I see nothing particularly wrong with not overly caring about the death of someone who took great efforts to limit civil rights.

That is the key difference, and the one that makes your "omg hypocracy!" argument bullshit.

What's bullshit is to toss me a red herring. As I've said, repeatedly, I don't expect people to mourn him or even to care. But when people act like children and hypocrites yeah, I speak up. But then maybe, in your mind, that makes me as bad as Falwell.

If you've observed past events that support your assertion, then present evidence of their occurrence. In other words, if you believe that anyone who in this thread has shown outrage at positive sentiments being espoused as a result of the death of a public figure who was the "opposite" of Jerry Falwell, prove it. Otherwise, retract the statement.

If something has yet to happen, then a statement that it will happen has no truth value. It can be neither true nor false because it is an opinion. Presenting an opinion as a fact is dishonest, both intellectually and otherwise.

To answer your above question: Show evidence of the events you claim to have observed. Until then, your assertion's validity is (at best) questionable. Questionable evidence should not be used to bolster an argument.

Oh right, here's the part where people forget they're on an opinion-debate forum and suddenly start holding the standard of proof for one argument higher than the rest (read: the ones you agree with)

Anyone who's posted on these forums for longer than 5 minutes knows perfectly well what I said is true. To pretend otherwise is intellectually dishonest at best.

He's old. Old people die. Death is inevitable. It is tragic when it is untimely, and to a lesser extent when important work is left undone. While I am not rejoicing over his imminent death, I see no reason to mourn it either.
There is no shortage of these lunatics. I am sure that the Jesus meat machine will prop up another one when this one is worm food.

I wouldn't hesitate to piss on his grave though. I would not piss on just anyone's gave and would take issue with someone who would piss on the grave of a meatbox whose life did not call for such a tribute. Does this make me a hypocrite? I don't think so. Some of you may though.

What's bullshit is to toss me a red herring. As I've said, repeatedly, I don't expect people to mourn him or even to care. But when people act like children and hypocrites yeah, I speak up. But then maybe, in your mind, that makes me as bad as Falwell.

Aw, children and hypocrites? Are we children and hypocrites now? The wound...it hurts. We are hypocrites because we are happy that a movement we diametrically oppose has been weakened, how dare we? I shall give myself 50 lashes to make up for this...

I do not, and I don't think anyone else, has celebrated that the man DIED. I find no joy in his death. I find joy in that his influence is gone. That his voice is gone. That the movement that he was in has been weakened. I would have been just as, if not in fact more happy if he had retired and simply slipped out of the public view forever.

I do not celebrate his death. I celebrate his no longer continued presence.

It's ok on NS General to celebrate the death of a Christian fundamentalist.

Perish forbid we celebrate the death of a militant Muslim though.

*kicks Dadullah's corpse in the soggy deflated head with the hole in the forehead *

He's old. Old people die. Death is inevitable. It is tragic when it is untimely, and to a lesser extent when important work is left undone. While I am not rejoicing over his imminent death, I see no reason to mourn it either.
There is no shortage of these lunatics. I am sure that the Jesus meat machine will prop up another one when this one is worm food.

I wouldn't hesitate to piss on his grave though.

He already died.

Happy?

I do not, and I don't think anyone else, has celebrated that the man DIED. I find no joy in his death. I find joy in that his influence is gone. That his voice is gone. That the movement that he was in has been weakened. I would have been just as, if not in fact more happy if he had retired and simply slipped out of the public view forever.

I do not celebrate his death. I celebrate his no longer continued presence.

And if THAT were the tone, I'd have nothing to say about it.

Anyone who's posted on these forums for longer than 5 minutes knows perfectly well what I said is true. To pretend otherwise is intellectually dishonest at best.
It is true, indeed, that what you described is the general case, and your accusation of hypocracy is probably reasonably founded. That doesn't mean the celebration in this or that case is any less appropriate.

I, for one, think that life should be celebrated where it can be, and death where life cannot, for the net effect is the same. Again, though, that's just opinion. :)

That's a really good point, and I admit that I wasn't sorry to see Saddam Hussein go, nor would I be at the demise of Bin Laden.. but at the same time, you won't find any posts by me about how wonderful it was to see Saddam hang, etc.

Certainly, but there were plenty of jubilant Iraqis when he hung.

Just realize... I'm not asking people to mourn the guy. If you're not sorry to seem him go you're not sorry... but celebrating it, it just sticks in my craw. Most of the people that hated Falwell hated him for daring to hold views in opposition to their own. That was his right. He exercised it. I'm no fan of his views and I'm not out there holding a candle for him, but at least if I say I'm not sorry to see Saddam or Bin Laden go, I'm talking about guys who used their power to cause the deaths of innocent people.

To equate them is utterly absurd.

Well, Jerry is on record saying:

"We're fighting against humanism, we're fighting against liberalism...we are fighting against all the systems of Satan that are destroying our nation today...our battle is with Satan himself."

"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharoah's chariotters."

"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals."

If he had the power to round up and shoot homosexuals, do you think he would have been any more merciful than Saddam?

I mean, doesn't it strike you as bizarre that a guy who speaks out his politics is demonized to the SAME level as mass murderers?

I personally don't consider him to be on the same level, I was just using mass-murderers to make a point. That said, we're talking about a man who was an outspoken segregationalist, opposed racial equality, and dedicated his later life to attempts to strip rights from women and homosexuals. Anyone with such views deserves to be reviled, although I'll defend his right to make them.

Possibly so. Does that make it right?

Nope.

So Falwell is dead and Satan just got a new minion

Because after that minute you realized who died?

No. I knew he was dead long before I even came into this thread.

He already died.

Happy?

If you actually read the post you quoted, you'll see that this makes me neither happy nor unhappy. I'd piss on his grave much like I'd piss on his head if he were alive.

He's old. Old people die. Death is inevitable. It is tragic when it is untimely, and to a lesser extent when important work is left undone. While I am not rejoicing over his imminent death, I see no reason to mourn it either.
There is no shortage of these lunatics. I am sure that the Jesus meat machine will prop up another one when this one is worm food.

I wouldn't hesitate to piss on his grave though. I would not piss on just anyone's gave and would take issue with someone who would piss on the grave of a meatbox whose life did not call for such a tribute. Does this make me a hypocrite? I don't think so. Some of you may though.

He was only 73, that's not old anymore.

Pity.

:)

Well, Jerry is on record saying:

"We're fighting against humanism, we're fighting against liberalism...we are fighting against all the systems of Satan that are destroying our nation today...our battle is with Satan himself."

"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharoah's chariotters."

"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals."

If he had the power to round up and shoot homosexuals, do you think he would have been any more merciful than Saddam?



What I find surprising is that you think he would. You can't seriously believe the guy would have advocated mass murder if given the power to do it. I'm not saying he'd have invited the gay community over for cake & icre cream, but he was no murderer, nor was he an advocate of it. As I recall, he even condemned the guy who was murdering abortion practitioners as a murderer.

What I find surprising is that you think he would. You can't seriously believe the guy would have advocated mass murder if given the power to do it. I'm not saying he'd have invited the gay community over for cake & icre cream, but he was no murderer, nor was he an advocate of it. As I recall, he even condemned the guy who was murdering abortion practitioners as a murderer.

you know...I don't know. I truly don't know. It's one thing to be somewhat sane when you lack any real power. It's when you have control that the real batshit crazy comes out.

I can't say with full confidence that fallwell would not have been as bad as saddam if he was in power to do it.

If you actually read the post you quoted, you'll see that this makes me neither happy nor unhappy. I'd piss on his grave much like I'd piss on his head if he were alive.

It must make you happy, if you're ready to piss on his grave. Otherwise, why bother?

So Falwell is dead and Satan just got a new minion

Umm... how do you figure? hasn't ol' Beelzebub had him since (at least) the 1980's?:confused:

What is the afterlife for Mr Falwell? 24/7 gangbanging? Nice to think so, eh?

If you actually read the post you quoted, you'll see that this makes me neither happy nor unhappy. I'd piss on his grave much like I'd piss on his head if he were alive.
It must make you happy, if you're ready to piss on his grave. Otherwise, why bother?

Now, maybe it's just me, but I find the willingness to "piss on his head if he were still alive" more disturbing that pissing on his grave.

It must make you happy, if you're ready to piss on his grave. Otherwise, why bother?You seem to have trouble reading the things that you quote in your posts. Or you just like putting words in my mouth. Maybe there is some underlying childhood trauma involved? You need to work on that.

If, hypothetically, it turns out that he was murdered, would you want to punish or praise the killer?

Punish. I don't condone murder or vigilantism, sort of (meaning that I think it should punished like any other crime, but sometimes I don't exactly express regret that they succeeded, like if someone killed his daughter's rapist).

Meanwhile, I said clearly I wouldn't kill him or encourage his death, but I'm not sorry his agenda is not longer being pushed forward with the power he held.

I bet all the liberal, God Hating scum are cheering right about now.

Perhaps, but if Falwell was TRULY God's representative on Earth, as he often trumpeted, then cheering might be the only appropriate response. I'm not so sure I want to be considered for a Heaven that accepts Falwell's brand of fear and hate (nevermind the hypocrisy, we're ALL guilty of that, though Jerry was a tad more spectacular about his) as God's word.

Punish. I don't condone murder or vigilantism, sort of (meaning that I think it should punished like any other crime, but sometimes I don't exactly express regret that they succeeded, like if someone killed his daughter's rapist).

Meanwhile, I said clearly I wouldn't kill him or encourage his death, but I'm not sorry his agenda is not longer being pushed forward with the power he held.

Well said.

That's a really good point, and I admit that I wasn't sorry to see Saddam Hussein go, nor would I be at the demise of Bin Laden.. but at the same time, you won't find any posts by me about how wonderful it was to see Saddam hang, etc.

Just realize... I'm not asking people to mourn the guy. If you're not sorry to seem him go you're not sorry... but celebrating it, it just sticks in my craw. Most of the people that hated Falwell hated him for daring to hold views in opposition to their own. That was his right. He exercised it. I'm no fan of his views and I'm not out there holding a candle for him, but at least if I say I'm not sorry to see Saddam or Bin Laden go, I'm talking about guys who used their power to cause the deaths of innocent people.

To equate them is utterly absurd.

I mean, doesn't it strike you as bizarre that a guy who speaks out his politics is demonized to the SAME level as mass murderers?

He didn't simply speak out about his beliefs, he pushed an agenda. He actively sought to change public policy and law. These are actions not just speech. Pretending it's just speech is intellectually and factually dishonest.

What I find surprising is that you think he would. You can't seriously believe the guy would have advocated mass murder if given the power to do it. I'm not saying he'd have invited the gay community over for cake & icre cream, but he was no murderer, nor was he an advocate of it. As I recall, he even condemned the guy who was murdering abortion practitioners as a murderer.

Why is it so hard to believe? He said "AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharoah's chariotters" so he clearly believes that homosexuals deserve to die. "AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals" so clearly his ideal society wouldn't tolerate homosexuals. What do you think he'd do?

Hell hath no fury like a God misinterpreted.

I bet all the liberal, God Hating scum are cheering right about now.

Damn straight.

An argument can, and has very often been made, that the evangelical right power base, of which falwell was an influential member, was responsible for getting Bush into office, which has resulted in the war in Iraq, and scores of dead innocents.

More than that. How many homosexuals are dead because of the bigotry he and his followers supported and pressed into laws? How many bigots has he helped get into office? How much actual oppression is present because of Falwell? I don't know the specific answer but its more than none. He had power. Lots of it. More than Bin Laden as far as I can tell. The man definitely is either directly or indirectly responsible for deaths.

He didn't simply speak out about his beliefs, he pushed an agenda. He actively sought to change public policy and law. These are actions not just speech. Pretending it's just speech is intellectually and factually dishonest.

Are you trying to tell me that the industrialists who funded Hitler's political career were somehow culpable? :eek:

Why is it so hard to believe? He said "AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharoah's chariotters" so he clearly believes that homosexuals deserve to die. "AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals" so clearly his ideal society wouldn't tolerate homosexuals. What do you think he'd do?

I love how we're being chastised for simply being glad his influence is gone and he's above all of the things he openly advocated. Interesting dichotomy, no?

Us: I'm glad he's gone.
RO: How dare you awful person?

JF: To do anything about AIDS is to go against God.
RO: What would make you think that RO is a bad person?

Are you trying to tell me that the industrialists who funded Hitler's political career were somehow culpable? :eek:

Um, yeah, I would plainly say that's true (assuming they supported his actual agenda).

EDIT: Meanwhile, Falwell openly claimed that he and his people controlled Bush and his agenda. He openly supported the war in Iraq and the policies of Bush and is quite proud of getting him elected.

What I find surprising is that you think he would. You can't seriously believe the guy would have advocated mass murder if given the power to do it. I'm not saying he'd have invited the gay community over for cake & icre cream, but he was no murderer, nor was he an advocate of it. As I recall, he even condemned the guy who was murdering abortion practitioners as a murderer.

*bad link*

According to Falwell, murdering people you think are evil is a worthy pursuit. Are we supposed to trust his words as what he would do or yours?

EDIT: Oh, crap. I don't think I'm allowed to link to worldnet, but look up a column by Falwell called God is Pro-War. He states openly that it is acceptable to kill in the name of God and as a means to destroy evil.

Falwell says they control the GOP and the fate of Bush.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040925/news_1n25christ.html

And do a search. You'll find that Falwell used to have a page on whitehouse.org where Bush praised him as God's messenger and as the official religious council for the white house.

Who the hell are you and what have you done with Deep Kimchi and Eve Online? :D

That's so exactly what I was thinking.

Everybody has relatives, and those who truly know and love Reverend Falwell are in mourning now. That is nothing over which to rejoice.

True, he did speak out for and on behalf of a certain brand of faith, and that faith included many ideas that divided this nation, and continue to divide it.

That said, I think the net result of the things you say and do is what matters. And while his right to freedom of speech was certainly well used, and rightly so, the things he said were incredibly hateful, spiteful, divisive and at least very, VERY presumptuous. Anyone claiming to speak for God had better be 100% sure -- and I have no doubt that he believed he was. Rationalizers have no better example than televangelists.

But imagine that you're a homosexual, a regular, peaceful Muslim, a woman who wanted something different (notice I didn't say "better") than to be a housewife -- the things Reverend Falwell said about all of those groups and more, tarring them liberally with the same, hopelessly inaccurate brush, would wound you to your very core. That's not love. That's malice. Premeditated malice. And folks, when that gets visited in the form of a crime, we punish it. He may have condemned the shooting of doctors who perform abortions, but he also inflamed the sensibilities of some who have done just that.

He may have condemned murder, but he bragged about helping launch the war in Iraq with the notion that "God is Pro-war". War is murder, writ large.

Am I glad Reverend Falwell is dead? Of course not. However, am I glad that his personal voice, which spread a twisted gospel of exclusion, division, fear and hate, is silenced?

Yes. Yes I am.

Do I think for a minute that this will have any affect on the aforementioned spread? Not a whit. There are many to take his place, and his image will be used as a quasi-martyr standard behind which the faithful will be called to rally...and give money...and vote.

Marx was wrong about religion. It isn't the opiate of the masses, it's the cyanide.

Faith is not the problem, it's how faith, through the abuse of religious hucksters, gets perverted. Reverend Falwell was a master of such manipulation. There will be more.

It's ok on NS General to celebrate the death of a Christian fundamentalist.

Perish forbid we celebrate the death of a militant Muslim though.

*kicks Dadullah's corpse in the soggy deflated head with the hole in the forehead *

Trying to pull that strawman only shows you hold Falwell to the same standards as you hold Bin Laden. I, personally, celebrate the demise of fundies of all kinds, knowing, however, that more will come and take their place. But, by all means, try to equate us with terrorists because we dare oppose the incompetent-in-chief.

Trying to pull that strawman only shows you hold Falwell to the same standards as you hold Bin Laden. I, personally, celebrate the demise of fundies of all kinds, knowing, however, that more will come and take their place. But, by all means, try to equate us with terrorists because we dare oppose the incompetent-in-chief.


Hey, any time a bunch of religious people wanna kill each other, I'm a happy guy.

Trying to pull that strawman only shows you hold Falwell to the same standards as you hold Bin Laden. I, personally, celebrate the demise of fundies of all kinds, knowing, however, that more will come and take their place. But, by all means, try to equate us with terrorists because we dare oppose the incompetent-in-chief.

In terms of violence, Falwell is nowhere near as bad as Bin Laden. However, in terms of cubic miles of hate spewed, he's about equal.

Perfectly expressed, Intangelon.

In terms of violence, Falwell is nowhere near as bad as Bin Laden. However, in terms of cubic miles of hate spewed, he's about equal.

I'm not so sure about the front half of that statement. How many people have died in Iraq (a war which Reverend Falwell prosecuted with zeal and fervor)? Bin Laden didn't pull the trigger on anyone, and neither has Reverend Falwell. But their words have had immense and high-level influence. I'm not saying that Reverend Falwell's sermons DIRECTLY made someone go out and beat up a gay man (though I'll bet at least a few have), but listening to enough of that ichorous polemic can certainly affect you to the point where you wouldn't see such a beating as anything terribly wrong.

May God bless his family in their time of need. May he bring peace upon them and comfort.

Rest in peace Falwell. You will be missed.

May God bless his family in their time of need. May he bring peace upon them and comfort.

Rest in peace Falwell. You will be missed.

Seriously, I know people who agree with his message of hate and horror exist, but I've never actually conversed with one. How sad.

Seriously, I know people who agree with his message of hate and horror exist, but I've never actually conversed with one. How sad.

Funny. Is it a crime to wish peace on his family and knows that he is going to be missed makes me one of his followers? How sad that you jumped to that conclusion.

May he burn for a long time.

To the void!

May God bless his family in their time of need. May he bring peace upon them and comfort.

Rest in peace Falwell. You will be missed.

He's not dead yet.


"I'M NOT DEAD YET!"
"You'll be dead soon"
"No! I'm feeling better..."

No thread is complete without a Monty Python reference.

He's not dead yet.

Yes, he is.

Yes, he is.

He is? I thought he was just in serious condition.

EDIT: Wow, he really is dead...

He is? I thought he was just in serious condition.

Nope, he's quite dead, thus my "To the void!" comment.

He's not really dead. I've seen enough horror movies to know the monster's never really dead.

Funny. Is it a crime to wish peace on his family and knows that he is going to be missed makes me one of his followers? How sad that you jumped to that conclusion.

Are you a personal friend? If not, then your experience is with his message. I took you at your word that you would miss your experience with him. Were you being sarcastic or were you just saying nonsensical platitudes that no one who cares will ever see?

we already had one with a reference to the "Dead Parrot" skit. ;)


Damn. Oh well...

Are you a personal friend? If not, then your experience is with his message.

Which is funny since I have never heard him speak nor read any of his works. Do you want to try again?

He's not dead yet.


"I'M NOT DEAD YET!"
"You'll be dead soon"
"No! I'm feeling better..."

No thread is complete without a Monty Python reference.


we already had one with a reference to the "Dead Parrot" skit. ;)

So could this be the end of Falwell?
Will anyone really miss him?

Apparently, God had had enough. :p

He is? I thought he was just in serious condition.

EDIT: Wow, he really is dead...

No he is not. He is off doing shots with Ken Lay.

Apparently, God had had enough. :p

Hey, God! What took you so long? :)

Which is funny since I have never heard him speak nor read any of his works. Do you want to try again?

So you won't actually miss him, since you've nothing to miss, and you have no idea if he'll be missed. Good. Settled. Sorry for taking you at your word. I'll be more careful in the future. I'm not one for meaningless platitudes designed just to make me SEEM sensitive, so it didn't occur to me to treat this as one.

Still, no matter what Jerry Falwell has done or encouraged, he should get better. No one is beyond redemption, and you cannot redempt if you're dead.
My sentiments precisely.

So you won't actually miss him, since you've nothing to miss, and you have no idea if he'll be missed. Good. Settled. Sorry for taking you at your word. I'll be more careful in the future. I'm not one for meaningless platitudes designed just to make me SEEM sensitive, so it didn't occur to me to treat this as one.

He will be missed by some people. I frankly could care less. I also accept your apology!

*hands you a peace Cookie*

I somehow feel like I should be happier.

He will be missed by some people. I frankly could care less. I also accept your apology!

*hands you a peace Cookie*

That made me laugh and was a pretty good way to handle it. I accept half of your cookie and expect you to eat the other half. *hands you half a glass of milk*

My sentiments precisely.

I suspect, and I'm just guessing here, that he is not going to get better. At least, not for three days.

I suspect, and I'm just guessing here, that he is not going to get better. At least, not for three days.
Ah, I see he's died. Well, I won't shed any tears over him, but I'm not exactly thrilled either.

Not to cheer at the death of another human being, but ole' Jerry won't be missed by many, and in fact the world is a better place without him.

He supported American segregation, as well as aparthied, even going as far as to encourage his followers to give money to the S.A. government so it would continue. He hated MLK, etc. etc... The man was a racist slime, and while I'm not neccessarily throwing a party over it, I am glad he's dead.

That made me laugh and was a pretty good way to handle it. I accept half of your cookie and expect you to eat the other half. *hands you half a glass of milk*

*takes the half a glass and the other half of the cookie*

:)

He had a tendency toward veering into the controversial territory, but seemed pretty on the level otherwise. I'm sure he'll be missed by some, though he lived a good long life and was influential, so it's not something to be upset about in that sense. :)

Meh. No loss. Hell is just a little larger today, if it exists.

Fuck Falwell and fuck those who miss him.

All we really need to do now is get rid of Phelps and we should be half decent.

All we really need to do now is get rid of Phelps and we should be half decent.

Probably wouldn't make much of a difference. The entire Phelps cult, maybe, but not just Phelps.

All we really need to do now is get rid of Phelps and we should be half decent.

You're forgetting the ever-lovable Pat Robertson.

I just got the news from my mom this afternoon. I was happy.

You're forgetting the ever-lovable Pat Robertson.

You need one crazy to laugh at.

So Falwell is dead, now?

Good riddance. Now we just, like said, need to get rid of Robertson and Phelps.

I must admit, it is on days like this that I regret not believing in an afterlife. I can just imagine Falwell approaching the Pearly Gates only to be greeted by Matthew Shepard and Tinky Winky, both sipping Campari and waving to Falwell as he slides downward, a look of horror on his flapping jowls, into hell.

I must admit, it is on days like this that I regret not believing in an afterlife. I can just imagine Falwell approaching the Pearly Gates only to be greeted by Matthew Shepard and Tinky Winky, both sipping Campari and waving to Falwell as he slides downward, a look of horror on his flapping jowls, into hell.LOL! I love the mental image.

I bet all the liberal, God Hating scum are cheering right about now.

Serious or not, Liberals are laughing. They never did have any respect for the sancity of life. I find it sickening when people cheer the death of people they disagree with. Just sick.

Serious or not, Liberals are laughing. They never did have any respect for the sancity of life. I find it sickening when people cheer the death of people they disagree with. Just sick.
Meh, he's an asshole. Who cares?

Serious or not, Liberals are laughing. They never did have any respect for the sancity of life. I find it sickening when people cheer the death of people they disagree with. Just sick.

Tell you what--when your side starts giving two shits about the health of people once they're out of the womb and stops starting unnecessary wars, then I'll give a flying fuck about what you consider the sanctity of life. Until then, you can lick my sweaty, hairy brown-eye every afternoon at 2.

Serious or not, Liberals are laughing. They never did have any respect for the sancity of life. I find it sickening when people cheer the death of people they disagree with. Just sick.


Tell you what--when your side starts giving two shits about the health of people once they're out of the womb and stops starting unnecessary wars, then I'll give a flying fuck about what you consider the sanctity of life. Until then, you can lick my sweaty, hairy brown-eye every afternoon at 2.

what Nazz said

Tell you what--when your side starts giving two shits about the health of people once they're out of the womb and stops starting unnecessary wars, then I'll give a flying fuck about what you consider the sanctity of life. Until then, you can lick my sweaty, hairy brown-eye every afternoon at 2.
Nice. ;)

Damnit, I'm sad he died.
It doesn't scare me too much since I was also sad when Yassir Afarat died.
He's no great loss to society, but he was still human.


There's only one person who I'll make fun of when he dies, and that's Fred Phelps.
I'll picket his funeral. He deserves it.

Everybody has relatives, and those who truly know and love Reverend Falwell are in mourning now. That is nothing over which to rejoice.

True, he did speak out for and on behalf of a certain brand of faith, and that faith included many ideas that divided this nation, and continue to divide it.

That said, I think the net result of the things you say and do is what matters. And while his right to freedom of speech was certainly well used, and rightly so, the things he said were incredibly hateful, spiteful, divisive and at least very, VERY presumptuous. Anyone claiming to speak for God had better be 100% sure -- and I have no doubt that he believed he was. Rationalizers have no better example than televangelists.

But imagine that you're a homosexual, a regular, peaceful Muslim, a woman who wanted something different (notice I didn't say "better") than to be a housewife -- the things Reverend Falwell said about all of those groups and more, tarring them liberally with the same, hopelessly inaccurate brush, would wound you to your very core. That's not love. That's malice. Premeditated malice. And folks, when that gets visited in the form of a crime, we punish it. He may have condemned the shooting of doctors who perform abortions, but he also inflamed the sensibilities of some who have done just that.

He may have condemned murder, but he bragged about helping launch the war in Iraq with the notion that "God is Pro-war". War is murder, writ large.

Am I glad Reverend Falwell is dead? Of course not. However, am I glad that his personal voice, which spread a twisted gospel of exclusion, division, fear and hate, is silenced?

Yes. Yes I am.

Do I think for a minute that this will have any affect on the aforementioned spread? Not a whit. There are many to take his place, and his image will be used as a quasi-martyr standard behind which the faithful will be called to rally...and give money...and vote.

Marx was wrong about religion. It isn't the opiate of the masses, it's the cyanide.

Faith is not the problem, it's how faith, through the abuse of religious hucksters, gets perverted. Reverend Falwell was a master of such manipulation. There will be more.
Best.Post.Ever.

Serious or not, Liberals are laughing. They never did have any respect for the sancity of life.

I find it weird how Republicans can support the death penalty and the war in Iraq, and say the words "sanctity of life" without their heads blowing up.

Tell you what--when your side starts giving two shits about the health of people once they're out of the womb and stops starting unnecessary wars, then I'll give a flying fuck about what you consider the sanctity of life. Until then, you can lick my sweaty, hairy brown-eye every afternoon at 2.

:rolleyes:



Ladies and Gentlemen The American Left.


I have nothing left to say to you.

:rolleyes:



Ladies and Gentlemen The American Left.


I have nothing left to say to you.

Ladies and Gentlemen--the American Right refuses to deny my charges, and so in absence of malice, we may assume accepts them as legitimate.

I have nothing left to say to you.

Good.

I find it weird how Republicans can support the death penalty and the war in Iraq, and say the words "sanctity of life" without their heads blowing up.


The death penalty for people who kill other people and rape children...The war to help secure and save the Iraqi people from a guy that was killing them for his own sick pleasure. Whatever. :headbang:

The death penalty for people who kill other people and rape children...The war to help secure and save the Iraqi people from a guy that was killing them for his own sick pleasure. Whatever. :headbang:

You mean the war that killed more Iraqi civilians in four years than Saddam killed in his entire stay in power? That does not qualify as saving.

Also, rape isn't a death penalty crime.

The death penalty for people who kill other people and rape children...The war to help secure and save the Iraqi people from a guy that was killing them for his own sick pleasure. Whatever. :headbang:

A death penalty that is unevenly handed out and is often given to people who are innocent of the charges. A war that was unnecessary and unjustified and during which more Iraqi civilians have died than in the previous 10+ years of Hussein's rule, and which has been prosecuted so poorly that one may expect even greater bloodshed when we leave. Bang your head some more--it might give you some fucking sense.

I would stay more, but it's clear not cheering over another person dying is a crime here. Silly me and not rejoicing in the death of another human being. I am a bad man for not being happy. I'll make a note to throw a party when a Liberal dies, it's obvious Liberals couldn't care less and even wish death on those who they disagree with.

May God bless his family in their time of need. May he bring peace upon them and comfort.

Rest in peace Falwell. You will be missed.

This sentiment brought to you by someone that (I believe) celebrated the death of Molly Ivins.

My uncertainty is only over whether Corny was Allegheny County 2. Link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12344742&postcount=4)

I would stay more, but it's clear not cheering over another person dying is a crime here. Silly me and not rejoicing in the death of another human being. I am a bad man for not being happy. I'll make a note to throw a party when a Liberal dies, it's obvious Liberals couldn't care less and even wish death on those who they disagree with.

Pretty much. Wait till Thatcher dies! There will be a full celebration here.

I would stay more, but it's clear not cheering over another person dying is a crime here. Silly me and not rejoicing in the death of another human being. I am a bad man for not being happy. I'll make a note to throw a party when a Liberal dies, it's obvious Liberals couldn't care less and even wish death on those who they disagree with.

No one is celebrating his death, except in your fantasies.

Pretty much. Wait till Thatcher dies! There will be a full celebration here.



That will be sad as well. I won't cheer over a person dying as long as they didn't do anything in life to justify it. Mainly murder,rape and the like. I was happy Saddam died because of what he did to his own people..But you can hardly put Falwell into that fold.

I would stay more, but it's clear not cheering over another person dying is a crime here. Silly me and not rejoicing in the death of another human being. I am a bad man for not being happy. I'll make a note to throw a party when a Liberal dies, it's obvious Liberals couldn't care less and even wish death on those who they disagree with.

Falwell wished death and suffering on those he disagreed with, but we are supposed to mourn his passing?

I don't cheer over another person dying, but I'll be damned if I'll say he'll be missed.

No one is celebrating his death, except in your fantasies.

I take it you did not read the whole thread?

I take it you did not read the whole thread?


No he did not.

I take it you did not read the whole thread?

I did. No one was celebrating. People were not caring. There's a difference.

I did. No one was celebrating. People were not caring. There's a difference.

Statements that they are glad that he is dead and proud that he is dead and telling him to rot in hell does sound to me that they were celebrating. Then again, I do not care what you think what is or is not celebrating.

Statements that they are glad that he is dead and proud that he is dead and telling him to rot in hell does sound to me that they were celebrating. Then again, I do not care what you think what is or is not celebrating.

Then quote the ones you think are celebrating his death.

Then quote the ones you think are celebrating his death.
I'm celebrating his death.

I'm not celebrating but, I'll admit, I did feel a near irresistable urge to laugh. This guy was a bigot and an asshole, he was just quiter about it than Phelps. The only thing sad about his death is that it took so long to come around.

Eh. Screw it. Let's celebrate. *makes a bloody mary and sparks a doob*

When I die, celebrate. Get a banner and a cake. Maybe a pinata. Definately a live band. I'm thinking funk, but I'll leave that up to you.

what's wrong with celebrating death? I heard of a culture that mourns birth and celebrates death. I'm in agreement with an outlook like that. life is hell and death is one of the best escapes.

telling him to rot in hell does sound to me that they were celebrating.

So when you say that atheists will rot in Hell, are you celebrating their deaths, too?

So when you say that atheists will rot in Hell, are you celebrating their deaths, too?

Well, atheists deserve it, unlike the totally awesome Falwell, obviously.

So when you say that atheists will rot in Hell, are you celebrating their deaths, too?

There is a difference...I'm very cold

*sigh*

This is what happens when I work late. Falwell croaks an' I missed it - well, it couldn'ta happened to a more deserving feller.

*sigh*

This is what happens when I work late. Falwell croaks an' I missed it - well, it couldn'ta happened to a more deserving feller.

...

Phelps, Bin Laden, Tom Cruise...

what's wrong with celebrating death? I heard of a culture that mourns birth and celebrates death. I'm in agreement with an outlook like that. life is hell and death is one of the best escapes.

This isn't exactly celebrating death, but it's the way I'd like to go out. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_funeral)

...

Phelps, Bin Laden, Tom Cruise...

Paris Hilton...

...

Phelps, Bin Laden, Tom Cruise...
Paris Hilton...

Nah. I been waitin' on Jerry's egress for twenny-five years at least. The rest can take their time about it.

I would only cheer the death of Falwell if it had been particularly gruesome or outlandish. A 73 year old douchebag dropping dead is hardly anything to cheer about. Now... if he had been eaten alive by tranvestite cannibals... well then I'd be cheering! :)

It's judgement day now for Falwell now. I think Falwell is about to get trapdoored into a cubicle in hell.

Well...Jerry is dead. I hope he finds his way to his own little, strange, slice of heaven. And I hope for the best for his family.

But do I mourn his passing, or look back nostalgicly at his "contributions" to Christianity...nyet...

Nah. I been waitin' on Jerry's egress for twenny-five years at least. The rest can take their time about it.

Even Phelps?! :eek:

I don't want anyone to die, nor am I particularly glad Fallwell is dead. I'm sort of meh about it.

The death penalty for people who kill other people and rape children...The war to help secure and save the Iraqi people from a guy that was killing them for his own sick pleasure. Whatever. :headbang:

Ha. Yes. Yeah, Saddam caused tons of death and imprisoned people for years without any real evidence of a crime. Oh, wait, that was Bush. It's so hard to tell them apart.

I would stay more, but it's clear not cheering over another person dying is a crime here. Silly me and not rejoicing in the death of another human being. I am a bad man for not being happy. I'll make a note to throw a party when a Liberal dies, it's obvious Liberals couldn't care less and even wish death on those who they disagree with.

Yes, that's the problem. Keep up that strawman. Today's backwards day where strawmen aren't fallacies. Or maybe we're laughing at you because your statements are laughable.

He didn't disagree. He acted. Yes, I want whatever it takes to prevent people from committing actions that hurt people, kill people, oppress people. Yes, absolutely. Everyone keeps talking about the people like Phelps, Falwell, Bush, et al, like they don't have an actual effect on the world.

If all he did was disagree, no one would care. You disagree, but if you passed away no one would be saying these kinds of things about you in a thread. However, Falwell was powerful and hateful and dangerous. Not the same at all.

Nah. I been waitin' on Jerry's egress for twenny-five years at least. The rest can take their time about it.

Even Bush?

Ha. Yes. Yeah, Saddam caused tons of death and imprisoned people for years without any real evidence of a crime. Oh, wait, that was Bush. It's so hard to tell them apart.

Indeed it is, particularly when you pruposely misconstrue the argument. Regardless of how you feel about a particular issue (and I don't particularly care about how you feel), the facts remain the same. Bush has not ordered the deaths of thousands of civilians. Bush has expanded the power of the federal government and the presidency, but he is no tyrant. Saddam was a dictator who used the tools of terror and violence to both repress and oppress his people. There is a significant difference.

That will be sad as well. I won't cheer over a person dying as long as they didn't do anything in life to justify it. Mainly murder,rape and the like. I was happy Saddam died because of what he did to his own people..But you can hardly put Falwell into that fold.

JF is responsible for much death and he is perhaps the single most damaging force for Christianity after Phelps. As a Christian, I'm glad his voice will no longer be associated with the voice of Christ.

JF is responsible for much death and he is perhaps the single most damaging force for Christianity after Phelps. As a Christian, I'm glad his voice will no longer be associated with the voice of Christ.

"Much death"? Horseshit.

"Much death"? Horseshit.

Well, with a compelling argument like that. Ask him. Look around. He believes he is responsible for the election of Bush. That's caused tons of death over the past six years. He also supports the death penalty. He supports segregation. The denial of rights. He openly admits he likes war. The guys a hatemonger. Hate breeds death. But, hey, how can I argue with "horseshit"?

Well, with a compelling argument like that. Ask him. Look around. He believes he is responsible for the election of Bush. That's caused tons of death over the past six years. He also supports the death penalty. He supports segregation. The denial of rights. He openly admits he likes war. The guys a hatemonger. Hate breeds death. But, hey, how can I argue with "horseshit"?

You should talk about strawmen. But hey, intolerance of intolerance is the only intolerance that is tolerated, eh?

Indeed it is, particularly when you pruposely misconstrue the argument. Regardless of how you feel about a particular issue (and I don't particularly care about how you feel), the facts remain the same. Bush has not ordered the deaths of thousands of civilians.

He certainly has. Or do you not know how war works? I'm quite certain that supporters of Saddam would make the same argument.


Bush has expanded the power of the federal government and the presidency, but he is no tyrant. Saddam was a dictator who used the tools of terror and violence to both repress and oppress his people. There is a significant difference.

He has used that power to imprison people without trial indefinitely. Civilians by his own claim. They are not prisoners of war. If they were what he'd be doing would be a violation of international law. His entire argument is that they are civilians as reason for why he can hold them without any recognition of basic human rights.

Yeah, he's not a tyrant.

You should talk about strawmen. But hey, intolerance of intolerance is the only intolerance that is tolerated, eh?

Ha. You're amusing. This isn't about what he believed. This is about what he did. I'm sorry that the difference is not clear to you. By the way, you should look up the definition of strawman so you don't embarass yourself in the future. Since those were my arguments and your entire argument at the time was "horseshit", unless I said you stated something other than "horseshit", which I didn't a strawman is impossible. But, hey, who cares if you don't understand the words you use, right?

Hmmm...

Two bits come to mind on hearing this news.

Barry Goldwater's infamous comment that “I think every good Christian ought to kick Falwell right in the ass.”
And the following from Larry Flint (http://www.accesshollywood.com/news/ah5356.shtml).
I hated everything he stood for, but after meeting him in person, years after the trial, Jerry Falwell and I became good friends.