NationStates Jolt Archive

Not to mention that feminists and queer women actively try to minimise the competition that Smunkee was discussing upthread.
I just wish there was a magic button to fix it, unfortunately I am working just to raise awareness, because how can you fix a problem if nobody will admit it exists.

Ever tried asking for cash?

Yes, but I don't want to make this a thread about my mother's gift-giving obsessions. ;)

<snip>

Maybe I'm crazy, but I can totally see why he stays in that relationship. :D
You're right. They were made for each other. :)

I've done something like that before, didn't go so well. Bad enough, in fact, that I can't rightly remember what I did...all I see is this waffle iron flying at my head...



Done and done. Meet me at the Mirage, Room 614 on Saturday.;)
Look for me. I'll have a giant peony pinned to the top of my head. :D

For as long as I can remember, I have been annoyed and mildly disgusted by popular women's shoes.
...
For any guys who claim that high heels are sexy or make a woman more attractive, please consider the fact that you are saying you find it attractive when a woman is, effectively, hobbled and unable to run from you. You may want to reconsider advertising that to others. ;)

There's a lot of pages here, so I may be repeating something already said. But, I'll risk ridicule and ask anyway.

Why do women go to so much effort to appeal to men, if the clothing is so uncomfortable?

Geez, besides the high heels, there are all sorts of other things my wife complains about wearing. When I tell her to just put on a pair of flats, she says she won't because she wants to look nice.

How 'bout it women, is it that important to impress the opposite sex? Especially one that thinks high fashion in evening wear is a tuxedo-style T-shirt?

At least some one gets it. I usually have lunch with one or other of my female friends once a week. We both fail to realize lunch doesn't materialize in thin air at the last second and then must start a 3 minute discussion where I say "Where do you want to go?" and they respond "It doesn't matter." then asks the same of me where I reply "I don't care." This happens 3 more times until either I suggest a place that they dismiss kindly or until they finally just name a place. It all ends with me being criminally indecisive.
I don't do it to help the guy. I do it because I hate fussing (which I would have thought would be a trait a guy would want in a woman, but whatever). If the dinner is a gift to me, then what I say goes, but if it's just friends, and they don't like my choice, we end up in the same place as you describe.

There's a lot of pages here, so I may be repeating something already said. But, I'll risk ridicule and ask anyway.

Why do women go to so much effort to appeal to men, if the clothing is so uncomfortable?

Geez, besides the high heels, there are all sorts of other things my wife complains about wearing. When I tell her to just put on a pair of flats, she says she won't because she wants to look nice.

How 'bout it women, is it that important to impress the opposite sex? Especially one that thinks high fashion in evening wear is a tuxedo-style T-shirt?
Since you missed these points earlier, women don't dress to appeal to men. They dress to compete with each other. Whatever is in fashion in a given place at a given time, that is what they must wear and must wear better than other women. All a woman has to do to appeal to a man is stand up straight and wear a proper fitting bra.

I think the plan is to wear the high heels until they attract a husband, then switch to more comfortable footwear. Of course, some women get caught up in the looking good arms race at the office and never let the damn things go.

Guys, beware women in high heels. Also beware any girl who dyes her hair red, but that's a whole different story.

There's a lot of pages here, so I may be repeating something already said. But, I'll risk ridicule and ask anyway.

Why do women go to so much effort to appeal to men, if the clothing is so uncomfortable?

Geez, besides the high heels, there are all sorts of other things my wife complains about wearing. When I tell her to just put on a pair of flats, she says she won't because she wants to look nice.

How 'bout it women, is it that important to impress the opposite sex? Especially one that thinks high fashion in evening wear is a tuxedo-style T-shirt?

yeah, there was a discusion about that earlier. they don't do it for men, but for some competition.

Well hey, this seems like a good time to open up the floor to wild speculations:

WHY do women wear high heels?

WHY?! Because there's nothing else!!

This is probably my biggest frustration with fashion: The lack of diversity. Walk into any run of the mill shoe store and look at the woman's dress/proffesional shoes. At the moment (at least here in Canada) all you will find is tiny open toed "spring shoes" with 3 inch heels. I searched the entire mall for an hour and a half to find a decent looking shoe with a heel under an inch and found... 1. I have to do a lot of standing and walking in my job. Cramming my foot into a tiny little shoe with a spiked heel means agony before the end of the day, not to mention the trouble I currently have with my feet.

And it's not just shoes. For the life of me, I cannot find a pair of jeans that comes up higher than mid hip. Does everyone like walking around with their ass falling out of their pants? Can no one make a nice pair of jeans that come up a little higher?

This is why I hate clothes shopping.

For as long as I can remember, I have been annoyed and mildly disgusted by popular women's shoes.

I have been irritated and disappointed by the idiotic way that so many women painstakingly select shitty, uncomfortable, dangerous footwear to go with every outfit.

I have made the obligatory references to foot-binding, and have implored female friends to think of osteoarthritis, bunions, hammer toes, and PLEASE DON'T WEAR THOSE UGLY-ASS POINTY-TOE HIGH HEEL MONSTROSITIES.

Well, FINALLY, there is a handy infographic that can make my life easier.

High heels suck.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2007/05/07/GR2007050700484.html

From the article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/04/AR2007050401940.html

For any guys who claim that high heels are sexy or make a woman more attractive, please consider the fact that you are saying you find it attractive when a woman is, effectively, hobbled and unable to run from you. You may want to reconsider advertising that to others. ;)

Nah. I don't believe that.

High heels suck.
Yep.

For any guys who claim that high heels are sexy or make a woman more attractive, please consider the fact that you are saying you find it attractive when a woman is, effectively, hobbled and unable to run from you. You may want to reconsider advertising that to others. ;)

I don't find it anything about high heels attractive. In fact I've never heard any man claim that. I always thought it was just women being crazy (not generalizing to all women here, just the ones wearing the heels).

I don't find it anything about high heels attractive. In fact I've never heard any man claim that. I always thought it was just women being crazy (not generalizing to all women here, just the ones wearing the heels).

i find them quite sexy (the women wearing them, not the high heels :p)

WHY?! Because there's nothing else!!

This is probably my biggest frustration with fashion: The lack of diversity. Walk into any run of the mill shoe store and look at the woman's dress/proffesional shoes. At the moment (at least here in Canada) all you will find is tiny open toed "spring shoes" with 3 inch heels. I searched the entire mall for an hour and a half to find a decent looking shoe with a heel under an inch and found... 1. I have to do a lot of standing and walking in my job. Cramming my foot into a tiny little shoe with a spiked heel means agony before the end of the day, not to mention the trouble I currently have with my feet.

And it's not just shoes. For the life of me, I cannot find a pair of jeans that comes up higher than mid hip. Does everyone like walking around with their ass falling out of their pants? Can no one make a nice pair of jeans that come up a little higher?

This is why I hate clothes shopping.

If you are anywhere near Montreal, I would suggest Oiseau de Tonnere. Or if you're in Saskatoon, there is a little shop on the main 'cool' street (Broadway?) that also sells intelligent shoes for men and women. My mother and I both have our feet on file there.

My mother and I both have our feet on file there.

not....literaly I hope.

If you are anywhere near Montreal, I would suggest Oiseau de Tonnere. Or if you're in Saskatoon, there is a little shop on the main 'cool' street (Broadway?) that also sells intelligent shoes for men and women. My mother and I both have our feet on file there.


Nope, I'm secluded off in BC.

I was so happy to have it too, it's nice to have someone bring you something silly after you have had a hard day, I played with it for hours, and showed it to all my friends that I saw yesterday and all of them gave me the same look :confused:

it's a toy, what's so hard to understand?!

a few weeks ago he brought me a bean bag.....it was so fun.

sometimes I don't think I will ever understand anyone else.

Clearly, you need to find a group of friends more like my own. We give baffled looks to anyone who doesn't understand why playing with silly things is fun. :)

i find them quite sexy (the women wearing them, not the high heels :p)

The women might be sexy, but not as a result of wearing the shoes.

For any guys who claim that high heels are sexy or make a woman more attractive, please consider the fact that you are saying you find it attractive when a woman is, effectively, hobbled and unable to run from you. You may want to reconsider advertising that to others. ;)That might explain my frequent attraction to girls with a broken foot..
Weird attractions aside though, I generally prefer more sensible footware on a girls feet. Although with certain special clothes high heels look nice. But in combination with every day clothes I don't really like any of the typical shoes geared towards women, high heeled or not. I mean, e.g. what's with the pointed shoes; are women's feet shaped like that? (Well, I suppose after wearing those shoes for a decade they inevitably are..)

i find them quite sexy (the women wearing them, not the high heels :p)
As one of the articles Bottle linked to shows quite nicely, heels force you into an unergonomic position which happens to exaggerate the feminine form. The butt swings back and the chest swerves forward, enhancing the appearance of an hourglass form.

A number of short women in particular seem to appreciate the rise in elevation, although giant platforms give a rise as well or better than giant heels. Stature is status for some reason, and short women seem to get tired of being eye-to-beard (or neck) with tall men.

and short women seem to get tired of being eye-to-beard (or neck) with tall men.

Then clearly they should stop dating tall men.

The women might be sexy, but not as a result of wearing the shoes.

well, it does enhance certain atractive features, but don't think that a non-sexy woman can suddenly become attractive by wearing a certain type of shoes. it's quite important that she's comfortable too, it isn't sexy if she can't walk 'normal'.

As one of the articles Bottle linked to shows quite nicely, heels force you into an unergonomic position which happens to exaggerate the feminine form. The butt swings back and the chest swerves forward, enhancing the appearance of an hourglass form.
Though from the side, it looks like the woman is pulling a plow.

Then clearly they should stop dating tall men.

Muh? No! I like short girls too, that won't help at all.

Muh? No! I like short girls too, that won't help at all.

I know how you can date short girls without short girls dating tall men... *tries to hide chainsaw behind back*

Women's "footwear"= FAIL.

I hate the high heels, especially the stiletto heels. How are stiletto heels going to support a woman's weight? I'm only 101 lbs. and I'm afraid they won't support me! And those god-awful pointy-toed shoes... They look very painful. My toes are short and stubby and fat, and one got messed up and is now sensitive and rather larger than it should be, how are those pointy-toed monstrocities going to be even somwhate comfortable for my feet!? I also have wider feet that usual, half the time I have to buy shoes a half-size larger.

That's why I wear sk8r shoes. They're almost always in men's sizes, and they're more comfortable than women's shoes.

Unless you wear them to gym, though they are still much more comfortable than women's shoes.

Is it me, or are all women's shoes/clothes torture devices?

Then clearly they should stop dating tall men.
And is dating the only environment in which men interact with women? IMO, many of those short women most enjoy being eye-to-neck in the dating environment, or they wouldn't be dating tall men. (As a tall man, this seems a likely explanation, although they still wear giant platforms...)

Dating, you either find an appropriate balance of mutual esteem, or you break it off. It's on the job, at school, and in less personal social environments that the loss of stature becomes a concern. AFAIK.

Before insulting someone walk a mile in thier shoes... that way when you do it you are a mile away and have thier shoes too!

Seriously... I never found high heels appealing ofr flattering... and I don't want to hear them bitch about painful shoes.

... and I don't want to hear them bitch about painful shoes.
Anything for a little less bitching.

A number of short women in particular seem to appreciate the rise in elevation, although giant platforms give a rise as well or better than giant heels. Stature is status for some reason, and short women seem to get tired of being eye-to-beard (or neck) with tall men.

my girlfriend (i'm 2-3 inches taller than her i think (we can make eyecontact when we're very close and i look down a little bit)) dislikes this, because wearing high heels would make her taller than me (and most men). for some reason being to tall isn't something a girl wants either.

this thread also reminded me of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMZ7R1DRUr4), not their best song but still.

Anything for a little less bitching.
Remarks like that cause an increase in bitching.

Seriously... I never found high heels appealing ofr flattering... and I don't want to hear them bitch about painful shoes.Just carry a set of flipflops, and when they complain about their shoes offer a change of footwear.. (Actually, that's probably a good way to get in a fight. Practical solutions are a no-no, from what I understand.)

Remarks like that cause an increase in bitching.

Which is why they are directed at certain individuals and not others.

Remarks like that cause an increase in bitching.

Indeed. We call it pathological bitching.

my girlfriend (i'm 2-3 inches taller than her i think (we can make eyecontact when we're very close and i look down a little bit)) dislikes this, because wearing high heels would make her taller than me (and most men). for some reason being to tall isn't something a girl wants either.

this thread also reminded me of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMZ7R1DRUr4), not their best song but still.
They're aiming for some mythical ideal height difference, IMO.

Which, from my perspective as a man who likes tall, short, and medium heights in a partner, looks silly, but what do I know?

They're aiming for some mythical ideal height difference, IMO.

Which, from my perspective as a man who likes tall, short, and medium heights in a partner, looks silly, but what do I know?

i don't really care either, but if she was taller than me she would be really tall for a girl so i can see why she doesn't really want that. it would also be practical if a girl wasn't really short because that would make things like kissing while standing quite hard.

WHY?! Because there's nothing else!!

This is probably my biggest frustration with fashion: The lack of diversity. Walk into any run of the mill shoe store and look at the woman's dress/proffesional shoes. At the moment (at least here in Canada) all you will find is tiny open toed "spring shoes" with 3 inch heels. I searched the entire mall for an hour and a half to find a decent looking shoe with a heel under an inch and found... 1. I have to do a lot of standing and walking in my job. Cramming my foot into a tiny little shoe with a spiked heel means agony before the end of the day, not to mention the trouble I currently have with my feet.

Now that's strange. Sometimes the only shoes I can find without a heel (or a short heel) are ugly, but I never have trouble finding any. I don't know if they have them there, but see if you can find a Naturalizer store or someplace that sells their shoes. My most comfortable lab shoes (close-toed and everything) came from there.

And it's not just shoes. For the life of me, I cannot find a pair of jeans that comes up higher than mid hip. Does everyone like walking around with their ass falling out of their pants? Can no one make a nice pair of jeans that come up a little higher?

I used to have this problem. Then I discovered Lane Bryant (of course, I don't know if they have those where you live either). Of course, if you're a smaller size, you won't find clothes there (most of their styles start at 14), but they do make nice looking, comfortable clothing - and they have jeans styles that actually come all the way up to the waist.

Seriously... I never found high heels appealing ofr flattering... and I don't want to hear them bitch about painful shoes.

As I said before, women's "footwear" = FAIL.

having never used a pick-up line myself i may be unqualified to say this, but, i've never heard of a pick-up line itself actually working.

I have, assuming "Nice shoes, wanna fuck?" counts as one.

I love heels. They're not always comfortable, but they make me feel sexy. I love how I totally command attention and energy as I clack down the halls. I don't really care if guys like my shoes though; my idiot crush/manbeast for those who understand never seems to either be around or really notice when I'm dressed up, except the one time when I was like, "Do you like the flower in my hair? By the way, there's a right and wrong answer here, buddy*." I dress up to impress my female friends/enemies.




*Said in a violent and frightening way, with fists raised.

I dress up to impress my female friends/enemies.

Ah, Smunkee actually provided that revalation a ways back. Men finally almost begin understanding the whole...female concept.

Ah, Smunkee actually provided that revalation a ways back. Men finally almost begin understanding the whole...female concept.

Like I was gonna read all 19 pages.

my girlfriend (i'm 2-3 inches taller than her i think (we can make eyecontact when we're very close and i look down a little bit)) dislikes this, because wearing high heels would make her taller than me (and most men). for some reason being to tall isn't something a girl wants either.

LOL. I always found that a little funny. I wear the shoes I want, regardless of whether or not they make me taller than my husband (we're about the same height when barefoot). The only time I really thought about it was for our wedding. I wanted comfortable shoes anyways, since I was going to be doing a lot of standing and dancing, but I also didn't want to be towering over him in pictures. So, even though all the etiquette guides and such said that wearing slipper-style shoes was a no-no until the reception, I ignored it and wore them anyways. These are the shoes I went with:

http://media.redgaloshes.com/01/007891.jpg

Comfy and cute! =)

Like I was gonna read all 19 pages.

I did. Does that make me bad? :(

I liked the CRASS song, that was ace.

As a blurke, I must say I appreciate clothes that make people look sexier.

That can be anything from combat boots to ballet boots (both kinds). If people want to wear high heels, let them. Yes, it's bad for you. So's fucking living. Who gives a shit? You live, you die, have fun living and don't piss people off for no reason - best way to exist I reckon.

Props to the chap who gave Smunkeeville the yo-yo, by the way, that's sound.

I love heels. They're not always comfortable, but they make me feel sexy. I love how I totally command attention and energy as I clack down the halls. I don't really care if guys like my shoes though; my idiot crush/manbeast for those who understand never seems to either be around or really notice when I'm dressed up, except the one time when I was like, "Do you like the flower in my hair? By the way, there's a right and wrong answer here, buddy*." I dress up to impress my female friends/enemies.

Is this kind of painful competition something all women understand? My wife swears up and down high-heeled shoes exist because men like to see women wearing them.

Let's say she's wrong [quietly, though]. What drives women to compete like this?

Well, it's partly an evolved mechanism. If you're top dog/cat/horse/woman, you show it through outside mechanisms - shiny fur, what have you.

Fashion is the human version of that. It's a competition for top spot in society, or at least your social circle. We all do it, to a lesser or greater degree.

Is this kind of painful competition something all women understand? My wife swears up and down high-heeled shoes exist because men like to see women wearing them.

Let's say she's wrong [quietly, though]. What drives women to compete like this?

Does your wife wear heels? That probably makes a difference.
It's hard to explain the competition thing to a guy. It's like, your best friend shows up to school wearing heels and looking hot and recieving compliments, so the next day, you want to do the same thing. It feels good to put a little effort into your wardrobe and get some attention in return. Some days, it's fun to be a lazy slob, but other days, it's more fun to feel like a little kid playing dress up.

Does your wife wear heels? That probably makes a difference.
It's hard to explain the competition thing to a guy. It's like, your best friend shows up to school wearing heels and looking hot and recieving compliments, so the next day, you want to do the same thing. It feels good to put a little effort into your wardrobe and get some attention in return. Some days, it's fun to be a lazy slob, but other days, it's more fun to feel like a little kid playing dress up.

Exactly! Rationalisation of an evolutionary mechanism expressing itself within the constructed context of a particular society. :)

Does your wife wear heels? That probably makes a difference.
It's hard to explain the competition thing to a guy. It's like, your best friend shows up to school wearing heels and looking hot and recieving compliments, so the next day, you want to do the same thing. It feels good to put a little effort into your wardrobe and get some attention in return. Some days, it's fun to be a lazy slob, but other days, it's more fun to feel like a little kid playing dress up.

One of the really interesting things I've recently noticed is that your friend who gets compliments probably gets them not because of what she wears, but because of how she carries herself.

One of my closest friends (now) used to make me very nervous. She was dating a male friend of mine before I got to know her as a friend. I could hang out with my guy friends all day long with no makeup and feel just fine. But when we would start to make dinner plans, and she was being included, I'd suddenly want to put on makeup and, if possible, change clothes to wear something cuter. The whole thing really didn't make sense to me. Who was I trying to impress? Her? The guys (who I'd been around all day looking frumpy)? My boyfriend?

The first realization I had was that I felt nervous because she always seemed to look good and I felt that I would look worse next to her if I didn't try harder. That rationale worked for me for a little while.

But then I started noticing that she wasn't always done up either. Sometimes, she'd show up with no makeup on in sweatpants, and I still felt like I somehow needed to try harder. That's when I realized that it was her attitude, not her looks, her makeup, or her clothes that was doing it. She always looks good because she is a very confident woman who pretty much always feels that she looks good. She could walk into a room with greasy hair, no makeup, sweats, and tennis shoes on and still look good because of her attitude.

For as long as I can remember, I have been annoyed and mildly disgusted by popular women's shoes.

I have been irritated and disappointed by the idiotic way that so many women painstakingly select shitty, uncomfortable, dangerous footwear to go with every outfit.

I have made the obligatory references to foot-binding, and have implored female friends to think of osteoarthritis, bunions, hammer toes, and PLEASE DON'T WEAR THOSE UGLY-ASS POINTY-TOE HIGH HEEL MONSTROSITIES.

Well, FINALLY, there is a handy infographic that can make my life easier.

High heels suck.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2007/05/07/GR2007050700484.html

From the article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/04/AR2007050401940.html

For any guys who claim that high heels are sexy or make a woman more attractive, please consider the fact that you are saying you find it attractive when a woman is, effectively, hobbled and unable to run from you. You may want to reconsider advertising that to others. ;)

I've seen some women wearing high heels sprint faster than men...I mean hell that's a regular occurance in NYC.

I've seen some women wearing high heels sprint faster than men...I mean hell that's a regular occurance in NYC.

Would they be fat, unfit, obese, or just lazy men? Or men who didn't have to sprint? And does this one eyewitness source counter the knowledge that wearing heels screws your back up and shit? ;)

My money's on "unfit/didn't need to run"...

I've seen some women wearing high heels sprint faster than men...I mean hell that's a regular occurance in NYC.

To quote the Boondocks, she's a ho

Which is why they are directed at certain individuals and not others.

Says a preferred target. :p

Indeed. We call it pathological bitching.

Amazing. There's a correlary condition in men that we call pathological jackassery.

Is this kind of painful competition something all women understand? My wife swears up and down high-heeled shoes exist because men like to see women wearing them.

Let's say she's wrong [quietly, though]. What drives women to compete like this?
Hatred. Blind seething hatred of other women, driven by a territorial instinct that makes angry lions run and hide. Nothing makes a woman feel better about herself than seeing another woman fly into a jealous rage at the mere sight of her.

Exactly! Rationalisation of an evolutionary mechanism expressing itself within the constructed context of a particular society. :)

That evolutionary mechanism being sex. Fashion is all about sex, but not always in the getting the mate way. Sometimes its in the out-doing the competition way.

I know I for one often wear shoes with a bit of heel simply because I can't find more comfortable dress shoes. Honestly, it's nearly impossible to find nice comfy shoes for special ocasions. So I either wear sneakers or something and have to have people annoyed at me for wearing my stinky sneakers to a nice dinner, or I wear the simplest dress shoes I can find (they're still too narrow and too pointy and to liable to fall off, and even with only a half-inch heel wobble around and cause me to nearly break my ankle) and kick them off and put them under the table at the first inconspicuous opportunity.

With currently avaliable dress shoes, there is no way to win. :(

But everyday is fine, I just wear my sandals everywhere.

It's hard to explain the competition thing to a guy. It's like, your best friend shows up to school wearing heels and looking hot and recieving compliments, so the next day, you want to do the same thing.

i think i understand it a little bit. i think it must suck though, being in constant competition.

It feels good to put a little effort into your wardrobe and get some attention in return.

something i've been wondering the last couple of weeks. what's the best way to give this attention? would it be better to just give a general compliment (like: "you look good today" or "you're beautiful" etc) or would it be better to give a more specific compliment (like: "nice new dress you're wearing" etc). because everytime i say something like that she just smiles. and how many times should i do that, i don't want to sound like i'm not serious (because if i say it every time it mitght start to sound like i don't really care) or like i just like her for her looks.

Some days, it's fun to be a lazy slob, but other days, it's more fun to feel like a little kid playing dress up.

i'm more often a lazy slob than not, but yeah, dressing up is fun. when i do that it's almost always supposed to be funny instead of sexy though. except once when i was wearing a suit a lot of people told me i looked good, that was pretty cool. (they might have been saying that because i'm such a lazy slob all the other days of the year though :p )

That evolutionary mechanism being sex. Fashion is all about sex, but not always in the getting the mate way. Sometimes its in the out-doing the competition way.

Um, how can out-doing the competition be about sex but not about getting a mate? :rolleyes:

Your paragraph makes no sense.

Yeah, I wish it was as simple as "males are straightforward," but it's not. My blunt nature tends to baffle my male friends until they get used to me.
I'd guess that they're not expecting the bluntness, and they're not sure if it's really so subtle that it seems blunt.
hubby tends to bring me things at random anyway, like yesterday he brought me a light up Yo-Yo :)
I used to have one of them, it was great fun, but the batteries kept falling out :(
Is it me, or are all women's shoes/clothes torture devices?
Shit, they're on to us!
Some days, it's fun to be a lazy slob,

Having fun being a lazy slob is what being a man is all about.

I've seen some women wearing high heels sprint faster than men...I mean hell that's a regular occurance in NYC.When you sprint, you're up on the balls of your feet, your heels don't even touch the ground.

Coicidentally it's just about the same form your feet take in a modest high heel shoe, so yeah, some women have mastered the art of running in heels.

I don't understand the 'shoe fetish', as my girlfriend calls it, the obsession over 'cute' shoes, the constant window shopping and purchasing of new shoes, often uncomfortable and impractical.

But I've learned not to fight it and keep my mouth shut.

After all I own a $150 pair of shoes that literally aren't designed for walking in.

They say 'Shimano' on the side of them....

Is it me, or are all women's shoes/clothes torture devices?

:rolleyes: Don't look at me I'm not forcing them to wear them

When you sprint, you're up on the balls of your feet, your heels don't even touch the ground.

Coicidentally it's just about the same form your feet take in a modest high heel shoe, so yeah, some women have mastered the art of running in heels.

I don't understand the 'shoe fetish', as my girlfriend calls it, the obsession over 'cute' shoes, the constant window shopping and purchasing of new shoes, often uncomfortable and impractical.

But I've learned not to fight it and keep my mouth shut.

After all I own a $150 pair of shoes that literally aren't designed for walking in.

They say 'Shimano' on the side of them....



Its supprising how many women can. My friends (who come from london and new york) both refuse to buy a pair of shoes unless they can run and drop kick in them, even after they've been wearing them for a day.

Its amazing what shoes they can now do that in.....

Nothing makes a woman feel better about herself than seeing another woman fly into a jealous rage at the mere sight of her.
Really?

Wow. I must be hanging out with a lot of mtf transsexuals, I guess, because the women I associate with don't seem to give a shit.

But, then, we all have solid careers and healthy relationships. So I guess we're not really a representative sample, huh?

Um, how can out-doing the competition be about sex but not about getting a mate? :rolleyes:

Your paragraph makes no sense.
It actually makes perfect sense.

There are multiple factors to consider when you are trying to obtain a mate.

Obviously, you have to consider attracting the mate. At the very least, you're probably going to need to get their attention, if you want them to mate with you.

But you also have to deal with all the other individuals who are competing with you for that mate. Out-doing the competition is often even more important than simply getting attention from the mate themselves. It depends on the situation.

But you also have to deal with all the other individuals who are competing with you for that mate. Out-doing the competition is often even more important than simply getting attention from the mate themselves. It depends on the situation.

So if you outdo them they concede to you?

So if you outdo them they concede to you?
Sometimes. But, more often, the goal would be to render them irrelevant. If you out-do them sufficiently, then prospective mates will desire you more than your former competition.

(Keep in mind, I'm more or less speaking as a biologist, here. Humans are a complex case, and the "rules" that apply to other sexually reproducing animals don't always apply to humans.)

Sometimes. But, more often, the goal would be to render them irrelevant. If you out-do them sufficiently, then prospective mates will desire you more than your former competition.

*shakes head* There are some things I just don't understand people... and I don't think I want to.

*shakes head* There are some things I just don't understand people... and I don't think I want to.

Honestly, it's just like any other kind of competition among humans. Sexual competition is nothing unusual or special.

The only weird thing about human sexual competition is that so many people are convinced to compete for totally non-essential resources, even if it costs them a great deal.

In recent years, I've been honestly surprised by the number of people who express the belief that everybody should get married at some point, and that not being married by 40 indicates a failure. I've never assumed I would be married, or even in a relationship, so why would it automatically be a failure if I wasn't in one? Some people just don't want to be married or dating. At least, that's what I thought. But it appears that Common Wisdom insists that all people want to land a mate and get hitched, and so most people just go along with this assumption.

Honestly, it's just like any other kind of competition among humans. Sexual competition is nothing unusual or special.

The only weird thing about human sexual competition is that so many people are convinced to compete for totally non-essential resources, even if it costs them a great deal.

In recent years, I've been honestly surprised by the number of people who express the belief that everybody should get married at some point, and that not being married by 40 indicates a failure. I've never assumed I would be married, or even in a relationship, so why would it automatically be a failure if I wasn't in one? Some people just don't want to be married or dating. At least, that's what I thought. But it appears that Common Wisdom insists that all people want to land a mate and get hitched, and so most people just go along with this assumption.

Think of it as a truth universally acknowledged :p

Honestly, it's just like any other kind of competition among humans. Sexual competition is nothing unusual or special.

The only weird thing about human sexual competition is that so many people are convinced to compete for totally non-essential resources, even if it costs them a great deal.

In recent years, I've been honestly surprised by the number of people who express the belief that everybody should get married at some point, and that not being married by 40 indicates a failure. I've never assumed I would be married, or even in a relationship, so why would it automatically be a failure if I wasn't in one? Some people just don't want to be married or dating. At least, that's what I thought. But it appears that Common Wisdom insists that all people want to land a mate and get hitched, and so most people just go along with this assumption.

Carry your mating ritual analogy a bit further: you've already attracted the mate and well, mated, so what's next? Children. It's just a method to ensure children and the survival of the species.

Haven't even been married a year and I'm already hearing about how my idiot sister-in-law is looking forward to spoiling nieces or nephews and I've already been asked twice about "settling down and having kids"

1) I hate children. I always have. I have the paternal instinct of a tomcat: kill the damn thing. My wife knows this and knows my thoughts on the matter. Whether she accepts them, however, is a whole other story.

2) Don't hold your damn breath, I don't plan on having kids, for reasons why, see #1

3) The question "when are you having kids" is insulting and insensitive at the very least and downright hurtful to some. My folks are just lucky I don't have the heart to say anything other than "don't hold your breath."

In recent years, I've been honestly surprised by the number of people who express the belief that everybody should get married at some point, and that not being married by 40 indicates a failure. I've never assumed I would be married, or even in a relationship, so why would it automatically be a failure if I wasn't in one? Some people just don't want to be married or dating. At least, that's what I thought. But it appears that Common Wisdom insists that all people want to land a mate and get hitched, and so most people just go along with this assumption.

Well I guess I want to fail then :(

Stupid society and it's stupid expectations.

shitty, uncomfortable, dangerous footwear to go with every outfit.

I have made the obligatory references to foot-binding, and have implored female friends to think of osteoarthritis, bunions, hammer toes, and PLEASE DON'T WEAR THOSE UGLY-ASS POINTY-TOE HIGH HEEL MONSTROSITIES.



What about cross dressers?

What about cross dressers?

What about them?

What about them?

Does she implore cross dresser friends to think of osteoarthritis, bunions, hammer toes, and to PLEASE NOT WEAR THOSE UGLY-ASS POINTY-TOE HIGH HEEL MONSTROSITIES.

Does she implore cross dresser friends to think of osteoarthritis, bunions, hammer toes, and to PLEASE NOT WEAR THOSE UGLY-ASS POINTY-TOE HIGH HEEL MONSTROSITIES.

I assume she does if she has any cross dressing friends. Bottle is clearly not a fan of high heels, regardless of whose feet they're on.

Yep. I entirley believe that only lesbian and feminists can properly educate a young girl. After the male donated his sperm to our family, we promptly got rid of him and now live perfect lives in the Lesbian Utopia.:rolleyes:

You know, one of the reasons people suspect you are Deep Kimchi/Eve Online, etc. is because he would also make these stupid assumptions that only make sense if you believe that everyone only lives in a completely black and white world.

So, because you are incapable of understanding shades of grey, I will spell it out for you:

I am glad that my daughters live in a community that has lots of feminists and queer women because these women often provide advice that helps them understand and grow without being saddled with the crap that most girls grow up with. They are not the only people who help my daughters in this way. The father of my children (admittedly a feminist, but according to this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12627723&postcount=83), so are you, as you believe your daughters should have the same opportunities as men) also provides a caring and nurturing environment without being a queer woman. As do their somewhat traditional grandparents.

It just so happened that the woman who helped my daughters understand that high heels are bad for your health is also a feminist. And while I htink that is a good thing, I do not assume that feminists are the only people who can provide such information for my children.

Not to mention that feminists and queer women actively try to minimise the competition that Smunkee was discussing upthread.

Read my initial post in this thread, and you'll find out that lesbians and feminists are not the only people who understand that high heels are bad for your health (and just a bad idea in general).

Read my initial post in this thread, and you'll find out that lesbians and feminists are not the only people who understand that high heels are bad for your health (and just a bad idea in general).

You mean the one I linked to in the post you just quoted?

Honestly, I've griped about how slow heels make girls walk. It would be so much nicer if they could keep up with my pace more effectively.

You mean the one I linked to in the post you just quoted?

Despite your claim in your post, it's quite evident that you still believe that men can't be trusted to give good information to young girls growing up.

And since you still believe that, it's quite apparent you never read any of the post I made.

Despite your claim in your post, it's quite evident that you still believe that men can't be trusted to give good information to young girls growing up.

And since you still believe that, it's quite apparent you never read any of the post I made.

If you wish to believe that about me, that is fine. The men in my life know better. Have a nice day, and by the way, I am glad that you also provide good advice to your daughters.

Does she implore cross dresser friends to think of osteoarthritis, bunions, hammer toes, and to PLEASE NOT WEAR THOSE UGLY-ASS POINTY-TOE HIGH HEEL MONSTROSITIES.
The only "cross dresser" I know is a pre-op transsexual who has been living as a woman for the last 5 years. And she doesn't wear high heels.

Despite your claim in your post, it's quite evident that you still believe that men can't be trusted to give good information to young girls growing up.

How so? If it's "evident," show the evidence. :D

Bottle is clearly not a fan of high heels, regardless of whose feet they're on.
Just so.

I do not personally know any men who choose to wear high heels. If I did, I would be saying the same things to them that I do to the women I know who wear high heels. High heels do lousy things to the human body, be it a male body or a female body.

How so? If it's "evident," show the evidence. :D

It's evident by Gift-of-God's lifestyle choices - kicking men completely out of the picture.

Got it?

It's evident by Gift-of-God's lifestyle choices - kicking men completely out of the picture.

Got it?
Perhaps I should clarify:

"Evidence" must be something other than you simply stating something as truth. I know that you think you are right. I am asking you to provide concrete reasons why I should think you are right.

Perhaps I should clarify:

"Evidence" must be something other than you simply stating something as truth. I know that you think you are right. I am asking you to provide concrete reasons why I should think you are right.

That's concrete evidence I gave you.

What more do you want?

That's concrete evidence I gave you.

Where?

You posted your opinion, in statement form. G-o-g has directly refuted your claim, on this very page.


What more do you want?
Examples. Evidence that supports your claims, and provides me with any reason at all why I should take your word for this over G-o-g's.

For example, if you believe G-o-g has said that men should be completely excluded from being role models or care givers or advice givers to young women, please provide a direct quote.

If you are not prepared to substantiate your claims with direct examples, then I must ask you to please leave my thread.

I shall recount a story. There were four of us walking together, two guys and two girls. One wearing heels, one not. The three of us were constantly stopping for our fourth companion, who was always huffing and puffing and struggling to keep up.

Ladies, we like it when you can keep up with us. Ditch the heels, they're useless in sex anyways.

It's evident by Gift-of-God's lifestyle choices - kicking men completely out of the picture.

Got it?

Um, since you seem to know some startling things about my personal life, including my sex, gender, sexual orientation, choice of friends, and community, I would like to know your real name.

You know, since you would have to be one of the people I am sleeping with to know this much information about me.

For all you know, I am a man.

Where?

You posted your opinion, in statement form. G-o-g has directly refuted your claim, on this very page.


Examples. Evidence that supports your claims, and provides me with any reason at all why I should take your word for this over G-o-g's.

For example, if you believe G-o-g has said that men should be completely excluded from being role models or care givers or advice givers to young women, please provide a direct quote.

In one of GoG's more recent answers, which you can read for yourself, she expresses having made personal choices to explicitly exclude men from the lives of the young women specifically because she doesn't trust men.

I see no reason to give you links, unless you are blind.

Um, how can out-doing the competition be about sex but not about getting a mate? :rolleyes:

Your paragraph makes no sense.
Poor dear. It makes sense if you think about it.

Sex Behavior #1: Getting the Mate = creating a look and engaging in behaviors specifically designed to attract the desired mate. Presence of desired mate required.

Sex Behavior #2: Out-Doing the Competition = creating a look and engaging in behaviors specifically designed to undermine or crush one's sexual competition. Presence of desired mate to compete for NOT required.

(NOTE: This list is not the complete list of possible sex behaviors.)

Get it? One is about attracting someone else. The other is about getting rid of someone else. So, the desire TO SEE ONESELF AS SEXIER/MORE DESIREABLE than another woman is so engrained that the presence of a man is not required to set off the related competitive behaviors. All it needs is the presence of other women.

This is why women will compete with each other sexually, even if none of them would be caught dead dating any of the available men in the vicinity.

Really?

Wow. I must be hanging out with a lot of mtf transsexuals, I guess, because the women I associate with don't seem to give a shit.

But, then, we all have solid careers and healthy relationships. So I guess we're not really a representative sample, huh?
Well, it's true, I have friends that I don't compete with too. But interestingly when I go out with those friends, even though we're not fashion addicts or anything, we do enjoy critiquing the looks of other women around us and we do -- cooperatively -- go to some effort to look good when going out in public. Also, looks are not the only thing we feel competitive about. Even more than appearance there is a lot of gamesmanship about social status, career status, and other non-fashion areas of life. But it is far more prevalent among non-friends. Some of that can get quite nasty. Even little things like the woman who was the same age as me but looked older, who walked up to me in my workplace and loudly asked, "Are you prematurely gray?", to which I responded with as bright a smile as I could muster, "No, I'm not." Her expression of rage as she walked away was a joy to behold.

In one of GoG's more recent answers, which you can read for yourself, she expresses having made personal choices to explicitly exclude men from the lives of the young women specifically because she doesn't trust men.

I see no reason to give you links, unless you are blind.

That's okay. I'll do it. Here are all my posts in this thread:

You get all the time too, eh?

My daughters went to a daycare where the woman taking care of them would point out that 'high heels are bad for your spine'. For completely different reasons, my daughters respect her very much, so when they want to play dress-up, they don't wear the high heels, because they were told by someone they respect that 'high heels are bad for your spine'.

Yet another reason why girls should grow up surrounded by smart women and feminists.

Yep. I entirley believe that only lesbian and feminists can properly educate a young girl. After the male donated his sperm to our family, we promptly got rid of him and now live perfect lives in the Lesbian Utopia.:rolleyes:

You know, one of the reasons people suspect you are Deep Kimchi/Eve Online, etc. is because he would also make these stupid assumptions that only make sense if you believe that everyone only lives in a completely black and white world.

So, because you are incapable of understanding shades of grey, I will spell it out for you:

I am glad that my daughters live in a community that has lots of feminists and queer women because these women often provide advice that helps them understand and grow without being saddled with the crap that most girls grow up with. They are not the only people who help my daughters in this way. The father of my children (admittedly a feminist, but according to this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12627723&postcount=83), so are you, as you believe your daughters should have the same opportunities as men) also provides a caring and nurturing environment without being a queer woman. As do their somewhat traditional grandparents.

It just so happened that the woman who helped my daughters understand that high heels are bad for your health is also a feminist. And while I htink that is a good thing, I do not assume that feminists are the only people who can provide such information for my children.

Not to mention that feminists and queer women actively try to minimise the competition that Smunkee was discussing upthread.

If you are anywhere near Montreal, I would suggest Oiseau de Tonnere. Or if you're in Saskatoon, there is a little shop on the main 'cool' street (Broadway?) that also sells intelligent shoes for men and women. My mother and I both have our feet on file there.

You mean the one I linked to in the post you just quoted?

If you wish to believe that about me, that is fine. The men in my life know better. Have a nice day, and by the way, I am glad that you also provide good advice to your daughters.

Um, since you seem to know some startling things about my personal life, including my sex, gender, sexual orientation, choice of friends, and community, I would like to know your real name.

You know, since you would have to be one of the people I am sleeping with to know this much information about me.

For all you know, I am a man.

Or maybe you were thinking about this one from your 'Obese lesbians' thread:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12599045&postcount=45

Way to go , lesbians!

I think it's great that lesbians are only half as likely to buy into the 'skinny' beauty myth.

This is a good example of how lesbianism can help us move forward as a culture: by showing everyone that you can be larger than Hollywood wants you to be, yet still be perceived as beautiful.

Thank you, Remote Observer, for giving me yet another reason to enjoy the fact that my daughters spend alot of time hanging around queer women.

Awesome!

However, my apparent misandry has nothing to do with high heeled shoes, so I will stop hijacking Bottle's thread.

For any guys who claim that high heels are sexy or make a woman more attractive, please consider the fact that you are saying you find it attractive when a woman is, effectively, hobbled and unable to run from you. You may want to reconsider advertising that to others. ;)
hmm... and here I feared women wearing High Heels... one stepped on my foot and it was PAINFUL! that much weight on that small an area!!!

My philosophy is a woman is sexy when she is comfortable. some like wearing High Heels and it shows. others don't, and they are still sexy.

In one of GoG's more recent answers, which you can read for yourself, she expresses having made personal choices to explicitly exclude men from the lives of the young women specifically because she doesn't trust men.

I see no reason to give you links, unless you are blind.
You must be the King of Strawman Manufacturers. G-o-g said no such thing. All G-o-g has done is express a positiveness towards female role models for children who are not likely to embrace traditions G-o-g sees as sexist or otherwise bad for women. I have not seen anything negative about men in any of G-o-g's posts in this thread. I have certainly not seen anything about excluding men or not trusting men or anything like that. I have not seen anything that tells me anything about G-o-g's lifestyle choices. In fact, I have not noticed anything that even specifies G-o-g's gender.

This is not the first time I've seen you make up entire arguments and then try to attribute them to someone else. It's really a ridiculous ploy. Kindly stop it. This is a women's footwear fashions and fashion-related attitudes thread. Stick to topic, please.

Well, it's true, I have friends that I don't compete with too. But interestingly when I go out with those friends, even though we're not fashion addicts or anything, we do enjoy critiquing the looks of other women around us and we do -- cooperatively -- go to some effort to look good when going out in public. Also, looks are not the only thing we feel competitive about. Even more than appearance there is a lot of gamesmanship about social status, career status, and other non-fashion areas of life. But it is far more prevalent among non-friends. Some of that can get quite nasty. Even little things like the woman who was the same age as me but looked older, who walked up to me in my workplace and loudly asked, "Are you prematurely gray?", to which I responded with as bright a smile as I could muster, "No, I'm not." Her expression of rage as she walked away was a joy to behold.

I would go so far to say that such competitiveness is an indication as to whether or not this woman is your friend. People who actually care about you would try to not engage in such behaviour, I have noticed.

I would go so far to say that such competitiveness is an indication as to whether or not this woman is your friend. People who actually care about you would try to not engage in such behaviour, I have noticed.

yeah, but women often have "friends" and friends, it's all about social domination, very few women have more than 2 or 3 real friends, but you don't go out and tell people that, I mean you would never say "yeah, but you aren't my friend friend" you just say everyone is your friend, unless they are your enemy, and then you have your "real friends" and after that you have your real friends.

I would go so far to say that such competitiveness is an indication as to whether or not this woman is your friend. People who actually care about you would try to not engage in such behaviour, I have noticed.
Yes, I'd agree with that. I don't know how it is with men. Some of my male friends are very non-competitive personalities, and others are the other way, and seem to enjoy competing with even their close friends, in a friendly way. But my female friends and I don't compete with each other -- except over whose turn it is to pay the bar bill; the fight to give each other things can get rough at times. I think maybe many women don't like competition for its own sake as much as many men do, but we do seem to enjoy beating out our enemies/competitors. So if we like the woman, there's no competition. If we don't, let the games begin.

yeah, but women often have "friends" and friends, it's all about social domination, very few women have more than 2 or 3 real friends, but you don't go out and tell people that, I mean you would never say "yeah, but you aren't my friend friend" you just say everyone is your friend, unless they are your enemy, and then you have your "real friends" and after that you have your real friends.

Tell me about it. We have one 'friend' like that who has been away for a while and is coming back soon. During that time, two really cool women stayed at her place, and we became real friends with them. The sad part is now they have to move away, because our other 'friend' is coming back. Mind you her husband, who is also coming back, is really cool and a staunch feminist, so it kind of evens out. And our two good friends are only moving a few blocks away!

Tell me about it. We have one 'friend' like that who has been away for a while and is coming back soon. During that time, two really cool women stayed at her place, and we became real friends with them. The sad part is now they have to move away, because our other 'friend' is coming back. Mind you her husband, who is also coming back, is really cool and a staunch feminist, so it kind of evens out. And our two good friends are only moving a few blocks away!

I know it. Sometimes I wish I was born a man so that I wouldn't be expected to keep up with all of this.

In fact, I have not noticed anything that even specifies G-o-g's gender.


The father of my children (admittedly a feminist, but according to this post, so are you, as you believe your daughters should have the same opportunities as men) also provides a caring and nurturing environment without being a queer woman.

(My emphasis)

Would seem to indicate a woman and a mother.

But anyway:

Some of my male friends are very non-competitive personalities, and others are the other way, and seem to enjoy competing with even their close friends, in a friendly way.

Oh, we compete, constantly. I believe the pop-psych term is "alpha-maling" There's a degree of one-upsmanship in just about everything we do in relationships with other men. There's a very defined hierarchy in male relationships, and just about everything we do is an attempt to define our position in it.

I know it. Sometimes I wish I was born a man so that I wouldn't be expected to keep up with all of this.

You would simply have to compete about other things (e.g. sports ability and trivia, number of women seduced, drinking ability, fighting ability, the list goes on), and probably with a certain element of physical violence as well.

Mind you, it would be easier to get comfortable shoes, though harder to get pretty ones.

yeah, but women often have "friends" and friends, it's all about social domination, very few women have more than 2 or 3 real friends, but you don't go out and tell people that, I mean you would never say "yeah, but you aren't my friend friend" you just say everyone is your friend, unless they are your enemy, and then you have your "real friends" and after that you have your real friends.
Yes, that's a tricky little game we play. I try to stay out it, myself, but I'm still not going to go around labeling people as "not my friend." What I do is, if asked, I describe people as "close friend" (the 2 or 3 real friends), "friend" (people I socialize with but am not close with), "person I'm friendly with" (co-workers, neighbors), "acquaintance" (person I see regularly, talk to, but don't really know), "person I don't like" (don't have any real hostility going on but don't like their personality and try to avoid them), or "enemy" (person who I have some active hostility going on with for some reason).

I use the word "friend" a lot, but I try to avoid using it towards anyone below the level of "person I'm friendly with."

You would simply have to compete about other things (e.g. sports ability and trivia, number of women seduced, drinking ability, fighting ability, the list goes on), and probably with a certain element of physical violence as well.

Mind you, it would be easier to get comfortable shoes, though harder to get pretty ones.

ah, but I would have a penis. :D

ah, but I would have a penis. :D

Believe me, it's really not all it's cracked up to be.

(My emphasis)

Would seem to indicate a woman and a mother.
"Would seem to indicate" is not "specifying." Considering RO's attempts to personally characterize G-o-g in a very specific way, I consider that an important distinction.

But anyway:



Oh, we compete, constantly. I believe the pop-psych term is "alpha-maling" There's a degree of one-upsmanship in just about everything we do in relationships with other men. There's a very defined hierarchy in male relationships, and just about everything we do is an attempt to define our position in it.
Ah, that's how it seemed to me, but not being in the club, I didn't want to presume to say so. :)

I guess the distinction might be that, for most women, such competition is very serious and therefore can feel more stressful or more negative that it is, possibly, for men. It's not just a wrangling for social position; there's a real sense of hostility behind a lot of woman vs. woman competitiveness, so maybe that is why it tends to not happen so much among female friends.

EDIT: For instance, that woman who asked if I was prematurely gray was indirectly criticizing my appearance because I don't dye my hair, and she was doing it in a way that made my gray hair the focus of the whole office's attention in an attempt to make me uncomfortable. My "No, I'm not " response turned the spotlight on her by focusing everyone's attention on the fact that, of the two of us, she was the older-looking. Her angry response was the indication that I hit the intended mark. It was really a very bitchy little exchange, nothing friendly about it, even though we were both smiling.

Believe me, it's really not all it's cracked up to be.

*refuses to listen*

ah, but I would have a penis. :D
Why would you want one of those? Just another thing to deal with, and really, is writing one's name in the snow THAT much fun? ;)

EDIT: Besides, it seems you've already got one, and it comes with size 16 feet!! :D

Why would you want one of those? Just another thing to deal with, and really, is writing one's name in the snow THAT much fun? ;)
penises are amazing things....

EDIT: Besides, it seems you've already got one, and it comes with size 16 feet!! :D
yeah, but I can't play with it all the time, it goes to work, and it goes to the gym.......and it's attached to someone else.

I've never understood most of the woman-woman competition stuff. I wonder if that makes me less feminine or something? I know my mother always found it odd that I had so many male friends - and seems to have thought for a while that I might be a lesbian, hehe.

I can only think of one woman who I really got the "competitive" vibes from, and I hated her with a passion that can barely be described - for a number of reasons. She really only had male friends (she was generally very rude to other women) - and seemed to be possessive (even in a somewhat sexual manner) towards all of them, whether she intended to date them or not. She would intentionally attempt to sabotage their relationships (friendship or romantic) with any other women. Even then, she treated the men she surrounded herself with like shit - often misleading them as to the nature of their relationship with her. *shudder* I'm so glad she doesn't live around here anymore.

Ah, that's how it seemed to me, but not being in the club, I didn't want to presume to say so. :)

I guess the distinction might be that, for most women, such competition is very serious and therefore can feel more stressful or more negative that it is, possibly, for men. It's not just a wrangling for social position; there's a real sense of hostility behind a lot of woman vs. woman competitiveness, so maybe that is why it tends to not happen so much among female friends.
.

Look up "You Just Don't Understand" by Deborah Tannen. It's pretty revealing about the differences in how we have relationships and communicate.

I can only think of one woman who I really got the "competitive" vibes from, and I hated her with a passion that can barely be described - for a number of reasons. She really only had male friends (she was generally very rude to other women) - and seemed to be possessive (even in a somewhat sexual manner) towards all of them, whether she intended to date them or not. She would intentionally attempt to sabotage their relationships (friendship or romantic) with any other women. Even then, she treated the men she surrounded herself with like shit - often misleading them as to the nature of their relationship with her. *shudder* I'm so glad she doesn't live around here anymore.


Sound's like your classic "Queen Bee" to me

Next time my mother tries to coax me into more 'feminine' footwear I'll show her this article. All her high heels have pointed toes - I couldn't stand that. This gives me even more reasons to love my Converse shoes!

penises are amazing things....


yeah, but I can't play with it all the time, it goes to work, and it goes to the gym.......and it's attached to someone else.
Well, as a fellow toy-enthusiast, I can hardly argue with that, though I do tend to see the attached guy as part of the toy set. ;)

I too have noticed the way my female friends seem to be oddly inconstant in their friendship. They'll continually bitch about whichever member of their group is not present, which always confuses me - particularly as it's not a matter of "friends" and Friends - they genuinely like each other. They just also denigrate and badmouth each other behind each others' backs.

From my vantage point atop the Y chromosome, this seems very strange indeed.

As other people have opined, stiletto heels/pointy toes/ballet boots are hideous - the latter seem to be expressly designed to create the maximum amount of discomfort and reduction in mobility. I rather suspect they are, being a BDSM item and all.

In my opinion, boots look much nicer than heels - and yes, they have their problems too. If you don't have perfect boots (hiking boots or custom-made or something) it hurts to walk any long distance, even with the low height of standard guy boots (and I suspect that womens' boots are even worse for that). I own a pair of very nice steel-toed Caterpillar boots I can't comfortably walk more than a kilometer in - I still wear them for going out, though (admittedly, about six times a year), because there's a degree of purely personal pleasure in dressing up, in looking one's best, even when walking any long distance would result in pain.

In a biological sense it's probably rooted in the dominance games of H. erectus, yes, but that's hardly the reason I do it. Sometimes one wants to look faaaahbulous, daahlink, even when one is entirely heterosexual ... or maybe there's a metrosexual in me trying to get out?

I guess my boots are better than any pair of heels in terms of comfort, though. Balancing a human body atop approximately five square inches of surface area strikes me as dangerously silly.

I've never understood most of the woman-woman competition stuff. I wonder if that makes me less feminine or something? I know my mother always found it odd that I had so many male friends - and seems to have thought for a while that I might be a lesbian, hehe.

I can only think of one woman who I really got the "competitive" vibes from, and I hated her with a passion that can barely be described - for a number of reasons. She really only had male friends (she was generally very rude to other women) - and seemed to be possessive (even in a somewhat sexual manner) towards all of them, whether she intended to date them or not. She would intentionally attempt to sabotage their relationships (friendship or romantic) with any other women. Even then, she treated the men she surrounded herself with like shit - often misleading them as to the nature of their relationship with her. *shudder* I'm so glad she doesn't live around here anymore.
I had one like that in my life, too, and I am also really glad she has moved on.

Well, as a fellow toy-enthusiast, I can hardly argue with that, though I do tend to see the attached guy as part of the toy set. ;)

well, yeah, I guess.

Well, as a fellow toy-enthusiast, I can hardly argue with that, though I do tend to see the attached guy as part of the toy set. ;)well, yeah, I guess.

great... now I feel like an Accessory...

as Sam Kinnison once said. "Boy, I'm glad THESE are not detachable..." :D

They make legs appear longer. Long legs = sexy, as far as I can tell.

What about the poor dwarf fetish and leg ampiutee fetish people?

The same reason they need to have tiny waists and massive breasts, I assume.

Large breasts, yay.

Ultra skinny people? No, kinda freaky to me.

There we go. Women want to kill babies.

I thought it was the ebil jewish lizards. Is it ebil jewish lizards with large breasts? *runs from furries*

Look up "You Just Don't Understand" by Deborah Tannen. It's pretty revealing about the differences in how we have relationships and communicate.
Deborah Tannen's books are extremely interesting. :) She wrote a great article for the New Yorker once, too, about, surprise!, New Yorkers and how their way of communicating puts them at odds with other Americans. As a female New Yorker, I felt she knew me personally.

She talked in detail about how New York City women don't engage in what she called "troubles talk" the way other American women do. She described "troubles talk" as a personal bonding thing in which women will gather around a woman who has troubles and just let her talk them through and "be there for her," etc. Outside of NYC, women playing the supporting roles in this do not talk about themselves, but in NYC, all New Yorkers, male and female, express sympathy by sharing personal stories, to show that we have had similar experiences. So the NYC version of "troubles talk" has all the women telling their own nearly identical stories about themselves, to share the experience collectively. Outside NYC, this is not seen as sharing an experience but rather as a selfish hogging of the spotlight.

great... now I feel like an Accessory...

as Sam Kinnison once said. "Boy, I'm glad THESE are not detachable..." :D
If they were, you'd have to behave better if you ever wanted to get another sandwich. :p

How about if everyone wore sneakers?

I remember one night going out in knee length boots (with 4" heels), a miniskirt and a corset (a bit slutty i know, but it was haloween). First of all it was october in scotland (Oh my god the cold!) Second of all the heels..... Pain!!! And then the corset... Well it was a fully steel boned one... More pain.

I thought it was one of the best outfits ever! It looked so goddam sexy.

You must have been a cute lass, but why the corset? Of all the things you do not want on a cold night in the moors something to hamper your breathing?

How about if everyone wore sneakers?

Ugh. Only in the winter time. I can't stand having sweaty feet if I can help it.

If they were, you'd have to behave better if you ever wanted to get another sandwich. :p

... but I do behave... :(

Ugh. Only in the winter time. I can't stand having sweaty feet if I can help it.

I have to admit that is a problem, but they are very comfortable

Sex Behavior #2: Out-Doing the Competition = creating a look and engaging in behaviors specifically designed to undermine or crush one's sexual competition. Presence of desired mate to compete for NOT required.

I know that, I just don't/can't understand why people would back off because someone looks "prettier"/richer than they do.

I know that, I just don't/can't understand why people would back off because someone looks "prettier"/richer than they do.
Conserving their effort for when they don't have to compete with that person?

"Hm. I have no chance. I may as well give up on [INSERT TARGET HERE] while [INSERT COMPETITOR HERE] is around."

ah, but I would have a penis. :D

If I had a penis I'd wear it outside
In cafes and carlots with pomp and with pride
If I had a penis I'd pamper it proper
I'd stay in the tub and use me as a stopper
If I had a penis I'd take it to parties
Stretch it and stroke it and shove it at smarties
I'd take it to pet shows and teach it to stay
I'd stuff it in turkeys on thanksgiving day

I'd rival my buddies in sportscars and stickshifts
I'd shower my spire with girlies and gifts
I'd peek around corners
I'd aim at my toilet
I'd poke it at foreigners
And soap it and oil it
If I had a penis I'd run to my mother
Comb out the hair and compare it to brother
I'd lance her, I'd knight her, my hands would endulge
Pants would seem tighter and buckle and bulge

(chorus)
A penis to plunder, a penis to push
Cause one in the hand is worth one in the bush
A penis to love me, a penis to share...
To pick up and play with when nobody's there

I'd sit like a guy, I'd straddle the chair
I'd play with my fly, albeit with care
I'd dip it in chocolate, I'd stick it in sockets
Go to the movies with hands deep in pockets
I'd stick it in vacuums on vacant verandas
Gas-guzzling bottles and poodles and pandas
And puddles and drain pipes and doggies and ditches,
Poolhalls and potholes and bottles and bitches...

Zucchinies and zebras, tomatoes, tomatoes,
And pineapple pumpkins, and gulches and grottos,
And melons and marshmallows...

Gloves and gorillas
Slurpies and slippers
Chinooks and chinchillas...

(chorus)

If I had a penis, I'd climb every mountain
I'd force it on females
I'd pee like a fountain...

If I had a penis I'd still be a girl,
But I'd make much more money and conquer the world.

-Penis Envy, by Uncle Bonsai

I want to go do all those things with my penis now.

I want to go do all those things with my penis now.

You say you want to stuff it in a turkey, eh?
*flashes a big carving knife* :D

Conserving their effort for when they don't have to compete with that person?

"Hm. I have no chance. I may as well give up on [INSERT TARGET HERE] while [INSERT COMPETITOR HERE] is around."
Yep.

Personally, I've been in situations where I just couldn't be bothered to participate in the "hotness arms race" that was going on. The people around me obviously were prepared to put waaaaaay more time and energy into attracting mates, so I just decided not to compete with them.

Yep.

Personally, I've been in situations where I just couldn't be bothered to participate in the "hotness arms race" that was going on. The people around me obviously were prepared to put waaaaaay more time and energy into attracting mates, so I just decided not to compete with them.

And if them trying so hard was that obvious, it probably put you ahead of the game.

An air of self-confidence (and the knowledge that you're less likely to take 3 hours to get ready to go out)...*sigh*...it's like catnip to us.

*Disclaimer: Note that all cats are not affected by catnip, similarly, not all men are affected by this particular brand.

Indeed. My cat couldn't give a shit less about catnip, but wave a twist tie at her and you could teach her to write poetry.

Indeed. My cat couldn't give a shit less about catnip, but wave a twist tie at her and you could teach her to write poetry.

Poetry you say?

ah, but I would have a penis. :D

You could use it to open jars (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/03/21).

[snipped song]
oh Bottle... you had to post that... :D

I just have to reply with this gem from Monty Python...

Penis Song (Not The Noel Coward Song) Lyrics
Artist: Monty Python (Buy Monty Python CDs)
Album: Sings

Isn't it awfully nice to have a penis
Isn't it frightfully good to have a dong

It's swell to have a stiffy
It's divine to own a dick

From the tiniest little tadger
To the world's biggest prick

So, three cheers for your Willy or John Thomas
Hooray for your one-eyed trouser snake

Your piece of pork, your wife's best friend
Your Percy, or your cock

You can wrap it up in ribbons
You can slip it in your sock

But don't take it out in public
Or they will stick you in the dock

And you won't come back

Oh, I'd never do it at a club - that's one place my shoes are staying squarely on. I was thinking more along the lines of old high school dances - where drinks and such usually weren't allowed on the dance floor. Half the time, they preferred that we remove our shoes anyways, so as not to scuff up the floor.


Hence the old term "sock hop", or as Danny and the Juniors put it, just "the hop".

[QUOTE=Infinite Revolution;12627243]i've always found it very odd that girls and women seek out the most painful looking shoes and then moan when they are in pain.
QUOTE]


LOL. Me too.

You can wrap it up in ribbons
You can slip it in your sock

Ah. A sock. I suppose. Still, it would be better than sticking it in a bottle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-CadS331Bo&mode=related&search=).

I refuse to wear high heels. Whenever I try I just sprain my ankle and get pissed off. I don't see the point. Plus if I'm in a club, how the hell am I supposed to dance in them when I can barely even walk?!

I do have a pair of these (http://www.newrockstore.com/zona3/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=18_1&products_id=171) but I don't class them as heels because a) I can walk in them and b) they make me look awesome, while stupid girly shoes make me look like an idiot :p

You could use it to open jars (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/03/21).

Penny Arcade is fucking gold, man.

Well hey, this seems like a good time to open up the floor to wild speculations:

WHY do women wear high heels?

I don't know. I wear comfortable shoes or sneakers.
You are right as usual Bottle. I hope you've managed to convince your friends. Most of mine just tell me that if I was straight I'd understand. I personally don't think so. :p

LOL. Me too.
gosh, here i was just randomly looking at a thread i hadn't posted in in days and someone quotes me right there and then!

well, i'm glad you agree :)

Heels ARE sexy. But I never wear them unless I plan on being off my feet almost immediately upon donning them.

They look dangerous to me.

Heels ARE sexy. But I never wear them unless I plan on being off my feet almost immediately upon donning them.

They look dangerous to me.

they are dangerous...

tho on a funny note... I did see someone in stilettos step and stand on a grassy field. and watched as she slowly tilted backwards as her stilettos were driven into the soft ground...

They look dangerous to me.

In what way?

In what way?

I don't mind small heels, but the uber-high stilettos... those look dangerous, like if I wear them I'll fall and break my ankle. There's no way those can keep the weight of anyone....

To your spine, hips, knees, calves, heels, and toes. Even if men do like it better it's not worth it if you ask me.

I don't mind small heels, but the uber-high stilettos... those look dangerous, like if I wear them I'll fall and break my ankle. There's no way those can keep the weight of anyone....
No, I wouldn't even attempt those. But even mid-height heels are too much for me, generally. They look fantastic, but that kind of agony isn't worth it. Still, I'll wear those, like I said, when I intend to be off my feet soon.

To your spine, hips, knees, calves, heels, and toes. Even if men do like it better it's not worth it if you ask me.

Men aren't the only ones who like them.

I"m not advocating for them, since I can't stand wearing heels myself. But I DO like how they look.

No, I wouldn't even attempt those. But even mid-height heels are too much for me, generally. They look fantastic, but that kind of agony isn't worth it. Still, I'll wear those, like I said, when I intend to be off my feet soon.

The mid-heights aren't remotely comfortable ither. And I was hoping you weren't talking about the heels of d00m....

The mid-heights aren't remotely comfortable ither. And I was hoping you weren't talking about the heels of d00m....

These (http://www.highheelshoemuseum.com/images/pierre1.jpg) I can not wear to walk around in. These (http://www.zappos.com/images/726/7267505/4998-308668-d.jpg), I can. Alright, so one pair are officially 'high heels' and the other are 'pumps'. Still, it's not the height that makes the big difference, it's the fit. Either way, if I am going to be on my feet for any length of time, I can't do it. I need a wider heel. The heel is less of a problem than trying to squeeze your feet into shoes that are too small.

The mid-heights aren't remotely comfortable ither. And I was hoping you weren't talking about the heels of d00m....

Heels of d00m!!!!!

(That means a yes, BTW)

well there were 28 pages of debate, of which I read the first. I love high heels. They make women look so much better, I agree, though, you probably shouldn't wear them 24/7, 12/7 is good though.
.

well there were 28 pages of debate, of which I read the first. I love high heels. They make women look so much better, I agree, though, you probably shouldn't wear them 24/7, 12/7 is good though.
.
You wear them then! They make men's legs look good as well, you know...

lol, I live in a village, a man would be shot for such a move.

lol, I live in a village, a man would be shot for such a move.
Still, practise what you preach and if you think women should wear high-heeled-shoes, wear them for 12 hours! If you don't, it's hypocracy! "Yeah, I want you to ruin your health and be unable to walk but me doing the same just to try it? ARE YOU CRAZY!"

Well, FINALLY, there is a handy infographic that can make my life easier.

High heels suck.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2007/05/07/GR2007050700484.html


The 2nd image of the woman, with her ass sticking out and her calves tightened looks much sexier to me.

I wear heels, and I look hot in them. I only wear flats to work or if I have to walk a lot.

Making women look better with heels is like...I don't know...the frame on the Mona Lisa...yeah, I guess it can make it look better, but no one's gonna talk about the frame back at the hotel.

I'd rather the chick be comfortable and not angry at me for making her walk around in vices the whole evening. I hung around a lot of crass dudes and even those cats don't mention the shoes.

But I'm not really what the chicks who wear heels are looking for, so it doesn't really matter.

Even before I hit six feet and acquired a bad ankle (and maybe a bad hip...) I thought high heels were the stupidest thing around. They make you look like an idiot and they make you hurt. WHY? Why the hell do women put up with this shit?

Yep.

Personally, I've been in situations where I just couldn't be bothered to participate in the "hotness arms race" that was going on. The people around me obviously were prepared to put waaaaaay more time and energy into attracting mates, so I just decided not to compete with them.

Amen. I decided a looong time ago that if a guy (or girl) couldn't put up with me the way I am - that is to say, bitchy, sarcastic and sometimes just plain mean - that they weren't worth bothering with. But I met redwulf, and he seems willing, even after seven year, to take me for what I am, so...

You wear them then! They make men's legs look good as well, you know...

you think?

but... won't I have to shave?

Somewhat (but not completely off topic), there's another shoe trend that drives me crazy - the roller shoes that people buy their kids. The whole switching between rolling and walking thing is not really my main problem with it (although it can be annoying when kids aren't careful). My problem is that I don't think the damn things are safe. There is a reason that rollerblades have boots that come up over the ankle - the need to support the ankle when one is putting all of one's weight on such a small surface area in the middle of the foot. The roller shoes put all of the child's weight on small wheels, but without the added ankle support (most tennis shoes fall below the ankle). These are sprained ankles waiting to happen.

<snip>
Oh God. Heeleys or something they're called? I hate them. So much. I work in a shop, and daily I almost fall over about 5 kids wearing those things. I can't see why the shop hasn't banned them yet, they don't let kids on rollerblades in and they're safer.

Is this thread over yet? I really need my shoes back.

Um, how can out-doing the competition be about sex but not about getting a mate? :rolleyes:

Your paragraph makes no sense.


High heels don't make sense.

Heels ARE sexy. But I never wear them unless I plan on being off my feet almost immediately upon donning them.
They're shoes. What is the point of shoes that, you admit, you can't/won't stand or walk in?

And how the hell is it "sexy" to be wearing such ridiculous items?

Even if men do like it better it's not worth it if you ask me.
SOME men do appear to like them better. I hope those men will be very loud and vocal about their preference, so we can all be sure to avoid dating them. :D

29 pages of responses for THE most stupid topic I've ever seen. Congrats people you've clearly proven that you have no life.

Now my two cents since I'm here.
I wonder what kind of a woman would start a topic like this. Let me guess. A fat chick or a feminist or both at the same time.
Seriously perhaps you think that women would be better off covered head to toe or are you just advocating women wear those ghastly "granny" shoes

Did you ever EVER stop to think that alot of women ENJOY attention from men????

Sheesh you people crack me up.

Hey, I wear them sometimes and now i have a deformed toe that my boyfriend says is not even a real toe... but hey all in the name of looking good! you feel good when you wear them its just the next day!! :) ;)

Certainly a long thread. Let's see if I can kill it.

I try to imagine what has Bottle so stewed about how other women dress.
Being a bloke, I figure the nearest I can get is to think about how other men dress.
Let's think now. I don't like the way jockeys dress, but jeez, it's just sports kit.
That tight athletic gear some gay guys wear. Lycra, leather ... rubber. Yep, I don't like butt-squeezing rubber shorts or teensy-weensy sailor caps.
Do I feel oppressed because my brothers wear ugly and uncomfortable clothing? Nope. Totally 100% their problem.

There's the solution then Bottle. Think more blokishly: "the more they fuck up, the better for me."

29 pages of responses for THE most stupid topic I've ever seen. Congrats people you've clearly proven that you have no life.

Now my two cents since I'm here.

Okay, right off the bat you get 11/10 points for trolling.

"Y'all have no life posting here," he posted. WELL DONE!!!


I wonder what kind of a woman would start a topic like this. Let me guess. A fat chick or a feminist or both at the same time.

If you dislike fat chicks and feminists, and never ever hit on them or try to sleep with them, then yes...I'm 700 pounds and my last name is Sanger.


Seriously perhaps you think that women would be better off covered head to toe or are you just advocating women wear those ghastly "granny" shoes

You do realize that naked women are, by definition, not wearing high heels, right?

For all you know, I'm a nudist.

Did you ever EVER stop to think that alot of women ENJOY attention from men????
And, naturally, it is impossible to enjoy attention from men if one does not wear cumbersome, painful, and potentially health-endangering items. This is why Angelina Jolie suddenly becomes a hideous hag when she puts on flats.

Certainly a long thread. Let's see if I can kill it.

I try to imagine what has Bottle so stewed about how other women dress.
Being a bloke, I figure the nearest I can get is to think about how other men dress.
Let's think now. I don't like the way jockeys dress, but jeez, it's just sports kit.
That tight athletic gear some gay guys wear. Lycra, leather ... rubber. Yep, I don't like butt-squeezing rubber shorts or teensy-weensy sailor caps.
Do I feel oppressed because my brothers wear ugly and uncomfortable clothing? Nope. Totally 100% their problem.

Missed the mark, I'm afraid. My complaint is not simply that high heels look dumb (which I think they do), it's that they completely defeat the entire purpose of wearing shoes in the first place, and they endanger the health of those who wear them.


There's the solution then Bottle. Think more blokishly: "the more they fuck up, the better for me."
I guess that doesn't really work for me, because I have friends who wear these shoes. Since they are my friends, I care about them. I care about their health and safety.

I'm also not in competition with any of them, so I don't actually benefit in any way if they are harmed.

29 pages of responses for THE most stupid topic I've ever seen. Congrats people you've clearly proven that you have no life.


that's quite ironic.

Okay, right off the bat you get 11/10 points for trolling.

"Y'all have no life posting here," he posted. WELL DONE!!!
It really is a delight to see good trolls in action. Some of these trolls have just lost there love of the sport. Their bullshit barely gets up to sheepshit standards.


If you dislike fat chicks and feminists, and never ever hit on them or try to sleep with them, then yes...I'm 700 pounds and my last name is Sanger.
This is true. I've seen pictures.


You do realize that naked women are, by definition, not wearing high heels, right?

For all you know, I'm a nudist.
Again, I've seen pictures.

And, naturally, it is impossible to enjoy attention from men if one does not wear cumbersome, painful, and potentially health-endangering items. This is why Angelina Jolie suddenly becomes a hideous hag when she puts on flats.

http://www.movie-gazette.com/directory/img/angelina+jolie.jpg
Angelina Jolie wearing high heels.
http://www.robertokaplan.at/images/old-woman-madeira.jpg
Angelina Jolie wearing flats.

It really is a delight to see good trolls in action. Some of these trolls have just lost there love of the sport. Their bullshit barely gets up to sheepshit standards.

Now now, its because as soon as they start it everyone shouts TROLL or ignores them!
If you rose to their bait more often and argued back in an ultra offended manner, they would get more practice, then could do it better :D



http://www.movie-gazette.com/directory/img/angelina+jolie.jpg
Angelina Jolie wearing high heels. [/QUOTE]

I look better, and i can do it in flats.

Now now, its because as soon as they start it everyone shouts TROLL or ignores them!
If you rose to their bait more often and argued back in an ultra offended manner, they would get more practice, then could do it better :D
Indeed. It takes two to troll.



I look better, and i can do it in flats.

I concur.

*fake whine* They called me a troll!!!!:eek: :rolleyes:

You say troll like its a bad thing...Seriously I live in Michigan. Everyone who lives below the Upper Peninsula gets called a troll. Cuz we live under the Mackinaw Bridge.

And further more..do you honestly think I give a flying F*** what y'all think. :upyours:

For all you know, I'm a nudist.

How could we know? I think pictures are needed.

And further more..do you honestly think I give a flying F*** what y'all think. :upyours:

If you didn't care then you would not have bothered to make such a.... colourfull reply.

And further more..do you honestly think I give a flying F*** what y'all think. :upyours:

*pats the noob/troll on the head condescendingly*
And if you don't care what we think then why are you posting here?

*fake whine* They called me a troll!!!!:eek: :rolleyes:
Well observed.

You say troll like its a bad thing...
It is.

And further more..do you honestly think I give a flying F*** what y'all think. :upyours:

Similarly, do you think we care if you care what we think?

And further more..do you honestly think I give a flying F*** what y'all think. :upyours:
Yep. And I can prove it:

I think you are physically unattractive and women decline to sleep with you, due at least in part to your tiny penis.

We both know that as you read the above sentence you had an emotional reaction. You can try to lie about it if you want, but we'll both know you're lying.

There's nothing wrong with caring about what other people think. Just don't let it make you so emotional that you lose control and start tossing around stupid "up yours" emotes that make you come off as an insecure, rage-filled teenager.