NationStates Jolt Archive

For as long as I can remember, I have been annoyed and mildly disgusted by popular women's shoes.

I have been irritated and disappointed by the idiotic way that so many women painstakingly select shitty, uncomfortable, dangerous footwear to go with every outfit.

I have made the obligatory references to foot-binding, and have implored female friends to think of osteoarthritis, bunions, hammer toes, and PLEASE DON'T WEAR THOSE UGLY-ASS POINTY-TOE HIGH HEEL MONSTROSITIES.

Well, FINALLY, there is a handy infographic that can make my life easier.

High heels suck.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2007/05/07/GR2007050700484.html

From the article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/04/AR2007050401940.html

For any guys who claim that high heels are sexy or make a woman more attractive, please consider the fact that you are saying you find it attractive when a woman is, effectively, hobbled and unable to run from you. You may want to reconsider advertising that to others. ;)

People think high heels are sexy? These are people with foot fetishes, right?

Oh and I have to agree with that. I often chide my female friends who wear them: "Why do you want those shoes that squeeze your toes so hard?"

But a stiletto really does hurt when they step on your toes.

The chase is half the fun, then it's onto the binding and gaging.;)

People think high heels are sexy? These are people with foot fetishes, right?
They make legs appear longer. Long legs = sexy, as far as I can tell.

Of course, they also lead to ankle, knee, hip, and back problems. They dramatically increase the risk of breaking or spraining an ankle. They also lead to bunions, hammer toes, and a knob of bone forming where the strap cuts into the back of the heel.

Mmmm, sexy!

The chase is half the fun, then it's onto the binding and gaging.;)

But if you gag them you can't hear them scream. Silly Harlesburg.

i've always found it very odd that girls and women seek out the most painful looking shoes and then moan when they are in pain.

having said that, i did notice for the first time the 'positive' effect they can have on the shape of the leg when i was watching one of those makeover programmes that my flatmate watches. the only reason i noticed was because they were doing a before and after thing with some crap clothes that the designer modified to make more flattering and he noted how her legs looked now thinner and more shapely. but really he'd just put her in heals which he neglected to mention.

still seems pretty stupid though. i can't even think of an equivalent that men do, or that they might do. well ties are pretty damn uncomfortable especially with the top button done up, but not nearly as uncomfortable as heals, and not usually painful either.

still seems pretty stupid though. i can't even think of an equivalent that men do, or that they might do. well ties are pretty damn uncomfortable especially with the top button done up, but not nearly as uncomfortable as heals, and not usually painful either.

Well hey, this seems like a good time to open up the floor to wild speculations:

WHY do women wear high heels?

just don't wear them ,not like your in old China and having your feet made smaller

They make legs appear longer. Long legs = sexy, as far as I can tell.

Of course, they also lead to ankle, knee, hip, and back problems. They dramatically increase the risk of breaking or spraining an ankle. They also lead to bunions, hammer toes, and a knob of bone forming where the strap cuts into the back of the heel.

Mmmm, sexy!

Mmmmm, bunions. Excuse me, I'll be back in a few minutes.

*fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap*
Well hey, this seems like a good time to open up the floor to wild speculations:

WHY do women wear high heels?

They love pain? They need something to bitch about? They're all idiots? Some kind of conspiracy involving Jewish lizard people?

still seems pretty stupid though. i can't even think of an equivalent that men do, or that they might do. well ties are pretty damn uncomfortable especially with the top button done up, but not nearly as uncomfortable as heals, and not usually painful either.

Yeah. Why do we guys need to wear a noose around our neck anyways?

...

And if them girls just want their legs to look looked now thinner and more shapely, I'll just schedule them for an Ilizarov surgery... but wait, why do females need thinner and more shapely legs anyway?

Yeah. Why do we guys need to wear a noose around our neck anyways?

...

And if them girls just want their legs to look looked now thinner and more shapely, I'll just schedule them for an Ilizarov surgery... but wait, why do females need thinner and more shapely legs anyway?

The same reason they need to have tiny waists and massive breasts, I assume.

The same reason they need to have tiny waists and massive breasts, I assume.

:eek: :eek: :eek: Massive breasts!?!?! I thought those are for babies? Them babies might choke to death!

:eek: :eek: :eek: Massive breasts!?!?! I thought those are for babies? Them babies might choke to death!

There we go. Women want to kill babies.

Yeah. Why do we guys need to wear a noose around our neck anyways?

I love 'em. It's like a handy little silk leash. Hawt.

There we go. Women want to kill babies.

But them babies can hug their mooma's tiny waists already! Awww. :(

Want to know the reason we wear them? Have a look at the posture photo. It forces your backside out, and you counterbalance this with pushing your chest forward. It also makes your legs look longer and gives your calf a nicer shape.

There are also the social reasons, firstly it makes it easier to kiss tall guys, second all your female friends (and occasionally males ones) compliment you on how pretty your shoes are, and thirdly (and often most importantly) it gives you an excuse to get piggybacks home after nights out on the back of the hottest male friend you can find.

I love 'em. It's like a handy little silk leash. Hawt.

Pretty handy for killing/subduing men, eh?

People think high heels are sexy? These are people with foot fetishes, right?

While I do not wish to offend those with foot fetishes(as they're okay, really...foot fetishes are harmless) I do find high heels on women disturbing and, to be frank, idiotic. It makes the woman look like a fool for such poor taste in footwear, and as such it makes me far less attracted to them, as I am attracted to intelligence most of all.

So, once again, I find myself agreeing with Bottle.

Pretty handy for killing/subduing men, eh?
That second one, mostly. I'm not into necro.

I love 'em. It's like a handy little silk leash. Hawt.
thats why i don't wear one
Pretty handy for killing/subduing men, eh?

thats right go give them ideas why don't you :rolleyes:

Want to know the reason we wear them? Have a look at the posture photo. It forces your backside out, and you counterbalance this with pushing your chest forward. It also makes your legs look longer and gives your calf a nicer shape.

There are also the social reasons, firstly it makes it easier to kiss tall guys, second all your female friends (and occasionally males ones) compliment you on how pretty your shoes are, and thirdly (and often most importantly) it gives you an excuse to get piggybacks home after nights out on the back of the hottest male friend you can find.

The truth comes out at last!
*informs the world press*

Want to know the reason we wear them? Have a look at the posture photo. It forces your backside out, and you counterbalance this with pushing your chest forward.

You do realize, of course, that there's a reason why your body isn't designed to maintain that posture, right?


It also makes your legs look longer and gives your calf a nicer shape.

Maybe in the short term. In the long term, enjoy shortened and blocky calf muscles!


There are also the social reasons, firstly it makes it easier to kiss tall guys,

High heels just force you to stand on your toes. You can stand on your toes in flats. I do it all the time.


second all your female friends (and occasionally males ones) compliment you on how pretty your shoes are,

Get new friends. HURRY.


and thirdly (and often most importantly) it gives you an excuse to get piggybacks home after nights out on the back of the hottest male friend you can find.
You need excuses for that? Hell, I just ask 'em to drop trou and dance around for me. Never been turned down yet.

I am anti-feet and I think that high heels are nice for dressy occasions. For all the time use? Kinda trashy. Personally, I like girls who wear converses... especially brightly colored ones.

As for ties - I hate them, with a few exceptions. I have a conservative looking tie that has all of the colors of the rainbow in it. It's my little way of expressing my not-quite-straightness without anyone really knowing.

just be happy that Lotus Shoes are not around

While I do not wish to offend those with foot fetishes(as they're okay, really...foot fetishes are harmless) I do find high heels on women disturbing and, to be frank, idiotic. It makes the woman look like a fool for such poor taste in footwear, and as such it makes me far less attracted to them, as I am attracted to intelligence most of all.

So, once again, I find myself agreeing with Bottle.
It's kinda hard not to most of the time.
Pretty handy for killing/subduing men, eh?
The same could be said of high heels. You could stab someone with the heel in a pinch.

Dita Von Teese had some rediculously large ones at the Australian MTV music awards.
*Useless information*

Dita Von Teese had some rediculously large ones at the Australian MTV music awards.
*Useless information*
We're still talking about shoes, right?

High heels are like low cut tops on winter nights to me - rather than finding them sexy, I can't help but cringe at how uncomfortable the wearer must be.

Well hey, this seems like a good time to open up the floor to wild speculations:

WHY do women wear high heels?

i don't know, i'm sure i've asked my friends before and they just say that it's cuz they want to or some other cop-out response. my flatmate doesn't wear them though cuz she says they are too uncomfortable and she doesn't see the point. and she's not even tall or anything. one of my friends regularly wears 4 inch heals cuz she likes the height they give her, she's already over 5'5" and she's taller than me with them on.

honestly, i think they genuinely value their appearence over their health. silly fools conforming to society's aesthetic ideals.

High heels just force you to stand on your toes. You can stand on your toes in flats. I do it all the time.

And it looks worse if those high-heeled shoes have a pointed toe. Dang. Your toes would be squeezed by your body weight on it. Argh.

It's kinda hard not to most of the time.

Indeed...Bottle is an amazing person, and quite the wonderful woman, isn't she?

...okay, enough creepy internet flattery.

We're still talking about shoes, right?
I thought we were talking about boobs now...
Yes High heels

<snip>

I saw a woman in heels running to catch a bus today. It was hilarious.

Want to know the reason we wear them? Have a look at the posture photo. It forces your backside out, and you counterbalance this with pushing your chest forward. It also makes your legs look longer and gives your calf a nicer shape.

There are also the social reasons, firstly it makes it easier to kiss tall guys, second all your female friends (and occasionally males ones) compliment you on how pretty your shoes are, and thirdly (and often most importantly) it gives you an excuse to get piggybacks home after nights out on the back of the hottest male friend you can find.

And all of this is worth deformation is it?

I saw a woman in heels running to catch a bus today. It was hilarious.

My friend and I once went to a concert, and she was wearing high heels with pointed toes. Unfortunately, the concert finished in the wee hours of the morning, and there were no cabs, so we have to walk home two and a half kilometers under the pouring rain... trust me, if it was you, it won't be funny. ;)

here some shoes you don't want to wear
http://www.sfmuseum.org/chin/foot.html

My friend and I once went to a concert, and she was wearing high heels with pointed toes. Unfortunately, the concert finished in the wee hours of the morning, and there were no cabs, so we have to walk home two and a half kilometers under the pouring rain... trust me, if it was you, it won't be funny. ;)

aye, i can't count the number of times i've walked home with my friends only for them to find out that their shoes are literally full of blood. and yet i can guarantee the next time we go out they're wearing equally rediculous shoes. it beggars belief, it really does. i mean i'd give piggy backs but i have back problems so they're going to have to walk most of the way, and i'm not sure it's really fair that i should damage my back so they can save their feet from shoes that i've always told them are stupid.

aye, i can't count the number of times i've walked home with my friends only for them to find out that their shoes are literally full of blood. and yet i can guarantee the next time we go out they're wearing equally rediculous shoes. it beggars belief, it really does. i mean i'd give piggy backs but i have back problems so they're going to have to walk most of the way, and i'm not sure it's really fair that i should damage my back so they can save their feet from shoes that i've always told them are stupid.

Full of blood? :eek: I've only seen almost entire feet bruised because of it, but blood?

- - -
By the way, I noticed something, but not nice enough to make a thread:
Up in the upper right corner of my screen, it says:

Welcome, Saint Bryce.
You last visited: 01-01-1970 at 12:00 AM

:eek: :eek: :eek: I wasn't even born yet! Perhaps it was my former reincarnation?

A few thoughts on womens shoes:

1) Platform heels. Add 3 inches in height, little incline, much like wearing really tall flats.

2) Buy comfortable heels. Yes, there are some out there; I have actually found a pair.

3) A semi-related topic: Why is the buckle on high heels always on the outside of the foot where it is near impossible to reach and adjust easily?

Full of blood? :eek: I've only seen almost entire feet bruised because of it, but blood?


Yes indeed. Its fairly common.

I remember one night going out in knee length boots (with 4" heels), a miniskirt and a corset (a bit slutty i know, but it was haloween). First of all it was october in scotland (Oh my god the cold!) Second of all the heels..... Pain!!! And then the corset... Well it was a fully steel boned one... More pain.

I thought it was one of the best outfits ever! It looked so goddam sexy.

I saw a woman in heels running to catch a bus today. It was hilarious.
Did she break her ankle?

A few thoughts on womens shoes:

1) Platform heels. Add 3 inches in height, little incline, much like wearing really tall flats.

2) Buy comfortable heels. Yes, there are some out there; I have actually found a pair.

3) A semi-related topic: Why is the buckle on high heels always on the outside of the foot where it is near impossible to reach and adjust easily?

I agree with the first two. To the third the answer is that if it was on the inside it would proceed to rub all the skin off your ankle.

Full of blood? :eek: I've only seen almost entire feet bruised because of it, but blood?

- - -
By the way, I noticed something, but not nice enough to make a thread:
Up in the upper right corner of my screen, it says:

Welcome, Saint Bryce.
You last visited: 01-01-1970 at 12:00 AM

:eek: :eek: :eek: I wasn't even born yet! Perhaps it was my former reincarnation?

it's cuz this is the first time you logged in to the forums so it goes back to jolt's base time wotsit. i guess they didn't tell it that if there was no previous login it doesn't need to show a date.

and yeh, blood. fucking idiots they are.

Yes indeed. Its fairly common.

I remember one night going out in knee length boots (with 4" heels), a miniskirt and a corset (a bit slutty i know, but it was haloween). First of all it was october in scotland (Oh my god the cold!) Second of all the heels..... Pain!!! And then the corset... Well it was a fully steel boned one... More pain.

I thought it was one of the best outfits ever! It looked so goddam sexy.

Luipaard is crazy. You can look sexy without being in pain you know.

Three pages in...

Not that I disagree, but that image of the woman in normal and then in high heels is misdirecting. They are tracing her body shape while she is standing in normal shoes, then doing it again while she is apparently playing hopscotch in high heels or doing anything but standing straight.

Luipaard is crazy. You can look sexy without being in pain you know.

yes indeed

For as long as I can remember, I have been annoyed and mildly disgusted by popular women's shoes.

I have been irritated and disappointed by the idiotic way that so many women painstakingly select shitty, uncomfortable, dangerous footwear to go with every outfit.

I have made the obligatory references to foot-binding, and have implored female friends to think of osteoarthritis, bunions, hammer toes, and PLEASE DON'T WEAR THOSE UGLY-ASS POINTY-TOE HIGH HEEL MONSTROSITIES.

Well, FINALLY, there is a handy infographic that can make my life easier.

High heels suck.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2007/05/07/GR2007050700484.html

From the article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/04/AR2007050401940.html

For any guys who claim that high heels are sexy or make a woman more attractive, please consider the fact that you are saying you find it attractive when a woman is, effectively, hobbled and unable to run from you. You may want to reconsider advertising that to others. ;)

I've noticed that a lot of women's fashions are done primarily to impress other women, not to impress men.

Most men could give a crap about high heels.

So, once again, I find myself agreeing with Bottle.

You get all the time too, eh?

My daughters went to a daycare where the woman taking care of them would point out that 'high heels are bad for your spine'. For completely different reasons, my daughters respect her very much, so when they want to play dress-up, they don't wear the high heels, because they were told by someone they respect that 'high heels are bad for your spine'.

Yet another reason why girls should grow up surrounded by smart women and feminists.

Did she break her ankle?

No she wasn't running fast enough for that, it was one of those half-runs.

Yet another reason why girls should grow up surrounded by smart women and feminists.
And feminists? Why not just smart women? I don't think feminists are getting anywhere.

You do realize, of course, that there's a reason why your body isn't designed to maintain that posture, right?

'Designed'?

Oh and I have to agree with that. I often chide my female friends who wear them: "Why do you want those shoes that squeeze your toes so hard?"

But a stiletto really does hurt when they step on your toes.

Or when they kick you in the shins. I have since remembered to keep my biting sarcasm to myself whenever my female friends are around and wearing heels.

WHY do women wear high heels?

I am really really short, in fact I am shrinking, 4 years ago I was 5'2" and now I am 5'0"

I don't wear stilettos though, mostly chunky pumps and wedges. In general I only wear them on dates or when I need to look intimidating...otherwise I wear flats or tennis shoes.

If my husband needs me to go out on a business dinner or something I usually will wear a higher heel than normal (think 4 inch pumps) because he is over a foot taller than me and we look more "normal" if I am closer to his height.

For as long as I can remember, I have been annoyed and mildly disgusted by popular women's shoes.

I have been irritated and disappointed by the idiotic way that so many women painstakingly select shitty, uncomfortable, dangerous footwear to go with every outfit.

I have made the obligatory references to foot-binding, and have implored female friends to think of osteoarthritis, bunions, hammer toes, and PLEASE DON'T WEAR THOSE UGLY-ASS POINTY-TOE HIGH HEEL MONSTROSITIES.

Well, FINALLY, there is a handy infographic that can make my life easier.

High heels suck.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2007/05/07/GR2007050700484.html

From the article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/04/AR2007050401940.html

For any guys who claim that high heels are sexy or make a woman more attractive, please consider the fact that you are saying you find it attractive when a woman is, effectively, hobbled and unable to run from you. You may want to reconsider advertising that to others. ;)


I've always thought it was needless suffering. I cant imagine all the discomfort and accidents brought on by women wearing high heels.
Some women wear them well, walking effortlesly and confident.

Many other clomp around like clumsy Clydesdales.

I dont know how they drive wearing them.

I dont think a pair of heels makes a beutiful woman any more beautiful.
And I dont think it enhances one thats unattractive to start with.

And the cost is beyond absurd.

I am really really short, in fact I am shrinking, 4 years ago I was 5'2" and now I am 5'0"

Seriously? Perhaps you should check whether you are starting to have kyphosis ("hunchback") or lordosis... that is if you are really shrinkin'.

Don't worry, we shorties=win ;)

I've noticed that a lot of women's fashions are done primarily to impress other women, not to impress men.

Most men could give a crap about high heels.

I had a conversation with my wife and her friends last week- the ywere talking about the absurd amounts they spend on pedicures.
I told them most men dont look at their feet til much later in the game-unless they have some obvious and grotesque foot malady.
And then,a pedicure wouldnt really help much.

They agreed that they check each other's feet/toes and are aware men dont really pay that close attention.

Seriously? Perhaps you should check whether you are starting to have kyphosis ("hunchback") or lordosis... that is if you are really shrinkin'.
one of the super happy complications of my auto-immune disorder is osteoporosis. I am shrinking because slowly my back is breaking down. (which also means I shouldn't wear heels because if I fall it's easier for me to get broken bones)

They agreed that they check each other's feet/toes and are aware men dont really pay that close attention.

No, not really no.

FASHION AND APPEARANCE

Clothes are the lowest priority for an engineer, assuming the basic thresholds for temperature and decency have been satisfied. If no appendages are freezing or sticking together, and if no genitalia or mammary glands are swinging around in plain view, then the objective of clothing has been met. Anything else is a waste.

DATING AND SOCIAL LIFE

Dating is never easy for engineers. A normal person will employ various indirect and duplicitous methods to create a false impression of attractiveness. Engineers are incapable of placing appearance above function. That’s what marketing is for.

:D

one of the super happy complications of my auto-immune disorder is osteoporosis. I am shrinking because slowly my back is breaking down. (which also means I shouldn't wear heels because if I fall it's easier for me to get broken bones)

Just be careful. ;) And get more calcium...

(BTW, out of curiosity, what autoimmune disorder?)

I had a conversation with my wife and her friends last week- the ywere talking about the absurd amounts they spend on pedicures.
I told them most men dont look at their feet til much later in the game-unless they have some obvious and grotesque foot malady.
And then,a pedicure wouldnt really help much.

They agreed that they check each other's feet/toes and are aware men dont really pay that close attention.

I get pedicures for my own enjoyment, it's relaxing, they have this chair that massages my back, and it gets me out of having to do it myself. ;)

i assume that women wear those shoes because they are the "uniform" wherever they work. in the city you see women wear painful shoes but in small towns where they arent "required" you seldom see women in anything but flats. even the well dressed women (working in the banks for the most part) who wear nice shoes dont wear particularly high heels. if its not necessary, women dont wear them.

for fancy occasions, a woman might wear high heels but unless you are in the city and live that kind of life there just arent that many times in a year when they are appropriate. wearing extreme heels once a year hurts like hell but wont be damaging unless you fall off them.

there are 2 things i dont understand about women. shoes and handbags.

its not enough to wear cute heels that you might buy at payless shoes for $25. NOOOOO you have to wear the all but unwearable manolo whatsits for $700. shoes that cripple your wallet as well as your feet.

and why are these women paying $1500 for a freaking handbag? that sort of waste of money is crazy. unless you have ooodles of extra cash after you have paid all your bills and put a good chunk into investments (which i suppose many of the women who would throw money away like this do) you are being extremely stupid. what? so when you are on the bus another woman will look over at you and know that you overpaid for a purse? there are just so many better ways to blow $1500 (or more).

Just be careful. ;) And get more calcium...

(BTW, out of curiosity, what autoimmune disorder?)

this (http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/celiac/#6) one.

Luipaard is crazy. You can look sexy without being in pain you know.

Indeed. I find women who look good but havent gone to great lengths or extreme measures to be much more sexy.

Yes- I like to look at surgically enhanced,over tanned,over made-up strippers, but I find plain women with natural beauty much more "sexy" and appealing.

I still look at big titted bleach blondes. But I always liked Maryanne better than Ginger.

one of the super happy complications of my auto-immune disorder is osteoporosis. I am shrinking because slowly my back is breaking down. (which also means I shouldn't wear heels because if I fall it's easier for me to get broken bones)

if your doctor starts recommending those new once a week or once a month osteoporosis drugs, talk to me before you agree to take them. the way they work means that they arent good for active women. ill have the husband send you a couple of research articles to read before you decide.

Indeed. I find women who look good but havent gone to great lengths or extreme measures to be much more sexy.

Yes- I like to look at surgically enhanced,over tanned,over made-up strippers, but I find plain women with natural beauty much more "sexy" and appealing.

I still look at big titted bleach blondes. But I always liked Maryanne better than Ginger.

This man makes sense, what is he doing on the internet?

this (http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/celiac/#6) one.

Guess it sucks when you can't eat everything you want...

i assume that women wear those shoes because they are the "uniform" wherever they work. in the city you see women wear painful shoes but in small towns where they arent "required" you seldom see women in anything but flats. even the well dressed women (working in the banks for the most part) who wear nice shoes dont wear particularly high heels. if its not necessary, women dont wear them.

for fancy occasions, a woman might wear high heels but unless you are in the city and live that kind of life there just arent that many times in a year when they are appropriate. wearing extreme heels once a year hurts like hell but wont be damaging unless you fall off them.

there are 2 things i dont understand about women. shoes and handbags.

its not enough to wear cute heels that you might buy at payless shoes for $25. NOOOOO you have to wear the all but unwearable manolo whatsits for $700. shoes that cripple your wallet as well as your feet.

and why are these women paying $1500 for a freaking handbag? that sort of waste of money is crazy. unless you have ooodles of extra cash after you have paid all your bills and put a good chunk into investments (which i suppose many of the women who would throw money away like this do) you are being extremely stupid. what? so when you are on the bus another woman will look over at you and know that you overpaid for a purse? there are just so many better ways to blow $1500 (or more).

Yes- Men dont know what brand of shoes you are wearing or handbag you're carrying.

Most of us wouldnt be impressed if we knew a woman spent hundreds or thousands on either.
We'd more likely think the woman was guillible or downright stupid.

And-there is little correlation between quality and cost on these products. Its not like a pair of $750.00 high heels last forever. They arent more durable and they arent ALWAYS in "style" either.

Guess it sucks when you can't eat everything you want...

sucked more to be sick. I had mostly neurological issues, seizures, neuropathy, etc. made it hard to do the things I wanted to do. The diet is inconvenient, but it's really not all that bad. I have bad days and good days, but even on my bad days it's not as bad as it was prior to diagnosis. ;)

Yes- Men dont know what brand of shoes you are wearing or handbag you're carrying.

Most of us wouldnt be impressed if we knew a woman spent hundreds or thousands on either.
We'd more likely think the woman was guillible or downright stupid.

And-there is little correlation between quality and cost on these products. Its not like a pair of $750.00 high heels last forever. They arent more durable and they arent ALWAYS in "style" either.

Apparently the design process of so called designer clothing adds huge amounts to the cost.

This man makes sense, what is he doing on the internet?

wasting precious time...

Yes- Men dont know what brand of shoes you are wearing or handbag you're carrying.

Most of us wouldnt be impressed if we knew a woman spent hundreds or thousands on either.
We'd more likely think the woman was guillible or downright stupid.

And-there is little correlation between quality and cost on these products. Its not like a pair of $750.00 high heels last forever. They arent more durable and they arent ALWAYS in "style" either.

we don't do everything for men. There is a lot of competition within our own gender, over things that have nothing to do with men.

we don't do everything for men. There is a lot of competition within our own gender, over things that have nothing to do with men.

Women are strange creatures indeed.

sucked more to be sick. I had mostly neurological issues, seizures, neuropathy, etc. made it hard to do the things I wanted to do. The diet is inconvenient, but it's really not all that bad. I have bad days and good days, but even on my bad days it's not as bad as it was prior to diagnosis. ;)

It's nice to know you are doing better. :)

Just remember to smile on your bad days to feel better, 'cause frowning may break some bones.

Women are strange creatures indeed.

I never claimed otherwise.

Most of us wouldnt be impressed if we knew a woman spent hundreds or thousands on either.
We'd more likely think the woman was guillible or downright stupid.

That's exactly what I think.

Women are strange creatures indeed.

Yes they are.

we don't do everything for men. There is a lot of competition within our own gender, over things that have nothing to do with men.

Like what? (I'm actually asking not trying to sound arrogant)

There's an HIV epidemic, people are starving all over the world, and you choose to post about high heels? Come on! This is assinine. Women DO look sexy in high heels, and you're a knob for creating this topic.

I get pedicures for my own enjoyment, it's relaxing, they have this chair that massages my back, and it gets me out of having to do it myself. ;)

That I agree with. My wife's come with champagne and a foot massage and she goes with a friend.
I understand this relaxation and pampering. And when I give her a massage,theres always a mess afterwards.

Like what? (I'm actually asking not trying to sound arrogant)

what we wear, how we groom ourselves, things we buy.....men are so egotistical sometimes.

I wear what I do because I like it, I really don't care what other men around think about it, I am not wearing it for their benefit. Does my husband care that I am wearing a pair of pink kitten heels? not a bit. do I care? sure, I think they are cute. Am I wearing them to get some sort of sexual attention? absolutely not.

I don't decorate my house for my husband's attention, I do it because I want to, and I like the way it looks.

I don't get manicures, pedicures, hair cuts, or shave my legs for his benefit, I do it because I want to.

If I want his attention I know how to get it, and believe me the man couldn't care less about what color my toenails are, or what type of bra I am wearing.

as far as the competition thing......blame the "superwoman" stereotype that goes around, we are supposed to be career women, who have tons of expendable money, look perfect, cook like chefs, and our children are always supposed to be clean in matched clothes, who never talk back, any real competition you get from women is trying to meet that ideal better than the other women because we are looking for respect.

we don't do everything for men. There is a lot of competition within our own gender, over things that have nothing to do with men.

to obtain WHAT? Competition usually involves reward.

With men,if we have a better car or BBQ grill, they blame it on the bigger dick principle. (at least cars and grills function)

What is it with women then?

I don't get manicures, pedicures, hair cuts, or shave my legs for his benefit, I do it because I want to.

If I want his attention I know how to get it, and believe me the man couldn't care less about what color my toenails are, or what type of bra I am wearing.

Yes-its heard for us to even see your toenails when they are lodged behind your ears.

to obtain WHAT? Competition usually involves reward.

With men,if we have a better car or BBQ grill, they blame it on the bigger dick principle. (at least cars and grills function)

What is it with women then?

the fear and respect of the other women.

women are incredibly two faced, and if you can get a mild amount of respect from one it cuts down on the gossip.

that being said I don't generally hang around with women, men make more sense to me.

what we wear, how we groom ourselves, things we buy.....men are so egotistical sometimes.

I wear what I do because I like it, I really don't care what other men around think about it, I am not wearing it for their benefit. Does my husband care that I am wearing a pair of pink kitten heels? not a bit. do I care? sure, I think they are cute. Am I wearing them to get some sort of sexual attention? absolutely not.

I don't decorate my house for my husband's attention, I do it because I want to, and I like the way it looks.

I don't get manicures, pedicures, hair cuts, or shave my legs for his benefit, I do it because I want to.

If I want his attention I know how to get it, and believe me the man couldn't care less about what color my toenails are, or what type of bra I am wearing.

as far as the competition thing......blame the "superwoman" stereotype that goes around, we are supposed to be career women, who have tons of expendable money, look perfect, cook like chefs, and our children are always supposed to be clean in matched clothes, who never talk back, any real competition you get from women is trying to meet that ideal better than the other women because we are looking for respect.

I believed you the first time you said that... I'm just having a difficult time comprehending doing THAT much grooming unless you have to. *shrugs*

I believed you the first time you said that... I'm just having a difficult time comprehending doing THAT much grooming unless you have to. *shrugs*

want to.

What I find amazing in this thread is that apparently, only feminists and lesbians can give good advice to young girls.

What a load of shit.

My daughter is a teenager, and I have expressly forbidden painful shoes of any kind, solely on the basis that it's harmful for your feet, legs, and back, and that she shouldn't let fashion dictate bad things to wear.

Oddly, I'm a male fundamentalist Christian.

I feel she should wear what's comfortable - not what women's magazines tell her to wear.

Most of the accoutrements that women are "sold" to wear or use (lipstick, nail polish, high heels) are something that women are sold to one-up one another with.

Most men I know (myself included) never, ever notice when a woman gets a new nail color, or gets a new pair of high heels, or a new shade of lipstick. It's all useless nonsense that is pushed off on women by both marketing and peer pressure from other women (I have noticed that the first people to notice these things are other women - not men).

So if you see my daughter running around in jeans and wearing either Birkenstocks or running shoes, not wearing nail polish or lipstick (like her friends seem to do), there's a reason - and oddly, she's gotten this advice from someone who isn't a lesbian or feminist.

Same goes for my advice to her on math, science, and other things - I've told her many times that women in this society (and in most other societies) have to work harder and do better than men in those subjects (that's if their in a society that doesn't shoot women in the head for trying to better themselves), and that being smart and educated gives you options that stupid and uneducated people never have.

So I teach her that as a woman, she needs to prepare herself to have options - rather than rely on someone else to support her later in life.

as far as the competition thing......blame the "superwoman" stereotype that goes around, we are supposed to be career women, who have tons of expendable money, look perfect, cook like chefs, and our children are always supposed to be clean in matched clothes, who never talk back, any real competition you get from women is trying to meet that ideal better than the other women because we are looking for respect.
The problem with trying to amend feminism onto classic views of women.

to obtain WHAT? Competition usually involves reward.

With men,if we have a better car or BBQ grill, they blame it on the bigger dick principle. (at least cars and grills function)

What is it with women then?

its all about who is more perfect.

its not enough to have a great job, a great house, a great husband and great children. you also have to look great, know what the best brands are (of everything), and be a paragon of virtue.

the most perfect (seeming) woman wins.

What I find amazing in this thread is that apparently, only feminists and lesbians can give good advice to young girls.

What a load of shit.

My daughter is a teenager, and I have expressly forbidden painful shoes of any kind, solely on the basis that it's harmful for your feet, legs, and back, and that she shouldn't let fashion dictate bad things to wear.

Oddly, I'm a male fundamentalist Christian.

I feel she should wear what's comfortable - not what women's magazines tell her to wear.

Most of the accoutrements that women are "sold" to wear or use (lipstick, nail polish, high heels) are something that women are sold to one-up one another with.

Most men I know (myself included) never, ever notice when a woman gets a new nail color, or gets a new pair of high heels, or a new shade of lipstick. It's all useless nonsense that is pushed off on women by both marketing and peer pressure from other women (I have noticed that the first people to notice these things are other women - not men).

So if you see my daughter running around in jeans and wearing either Birkenstocks or running shoes, not wearing nail polish or lipstick (like her friends seem to do), there's a reason - and oddly, she's gotten this advice from someone who isn't a lesbian or feminist.

Same goes for my advice to her on math, science, and other things - I've told her many times that women in this society (and in most other societies) have to work harder and do better than men in those subjects (that's if their in a society that doesn't shoot women in the head for trying to better themselves), and that being smart and educated gives you options that stupid and uneducated people never have.

So I teach her that as a woman, she needs to prepare herself to have options - rather than rely on someone else to support her later in life.

who said anything about lesbians?

While I do not wish to offend those with foot fetishes(as they're okay, really...foot fetishes are harmless) I do find high heels on women disturbing and, to be frank, idiotic. It makes the woman look like a fool for such poor taste in footwear, and as such it makes me far less attracted to them, as I am attracted to intelligence most of all.

So, once again, I find myself agreeing with Bottle.

I just want to point out that I think it would be shoe fetish people who enjoy high heels. The foot fetish people like feet, and I imagine they would be pretty upset when a foot starts to get bunions, hammer toes, the bone knob thing and veins poping out as a result of the shoes.

Well hey, this seems like a good time to open up the floor to wild speculations:

WHY do women wear high heels?For such a feminist, I'm surprised at you Bottle. But here's my reason: I like them. they are pretty.
I don't wear heels often, and certianly not to work or school, where they would become painful and ridiculous. But sometimes they're part of an outfit I like - and they look nice. There are plenty of nominally damaging things we do in order to look good, feel good, have a good time, and succeed in our careers. That's each person's choice. I do not understand what the bloddy big deal is about this particular one. I suppose it's somehting of a symbol. I'm not much for symbols though.

There are plenty of nominally damaging things we do in order to look good, feel good, have a good time, and succeed in our careers.

i think highheels are the only one that is actually painful and is not a fetish though.

its all about who is more perfect.

its not enough to have a great job, a great house, a great husband and great children. you also have to look great, know what the best brands are (of everything), and be a paragon of virtue.

the most perfect (seeming) woman wins.

What does she win?

men are so egotistical sometimes.

The great part about being an egocentric bastard is I don't have to spend time and money trying to prove I'm better than everyone else, I just believe it and ignore anyone who says differently. :D

its all about who is more perfect.

Somehow I have to take note of that phrase ;) . How can something can be "more perfect" than perfect? There must be something lacking in "perfect" that made it "less perfect". But fi there's something lacking in "perfect", then it can't be called "perfect"... oh dang. never mind.

Anyways, most of the women in our family are relatively low-key. My mom and my sister don't wear make-up, have manicure/pedicure on a daily basis. (My mom does it rarely - on special occasions). We all have a peculiar dislike for expensive jewelry... in fact, it's only rare that my sister would wear any earrings. All those expensive things... we don't want (or simply can't afford :) ). My sister does own a pair of high-heeled shoes, but she uses those only on formal occasions...

Aha! Why is it that women usually wear heels on formal occasions?

The great part about being an egocentric bastard is I don't have to spend time and money trying to prove I'm better than everyone else, I just believe it and ignore anyone who says differently. :D

you never know how hard it is to escape until you have been there.

there is a lot of pressure on women that I think men just don't understand.

I have escaped most of it by not hanging around with other women much, but there is always that question every time I do anything "why am I doing this?" and I try to figure out if I want to, or if I feel like I am "supposed to".

What does she win?

fear and respect of the other women (or more truthfully the appearance of, briefly)

fear and respect of the other women (or more truthfully the appearance of, briefly)

Sometimes I'm so happy I'm a man. Things are nice and simple for us.

its all about who is more perfect.

its not enough to have a great job, a great house, a great husband and great children. you also have to look great, know what the best brands are (of everything), and be a paragon of virtue.

the most perfect (seeming) woman wins.

See- I'm looking beyond those who are obviously petty and shallow to the ones that look comfortable and confident.
Looking great is clean and a woman that takes care of herself, but not to the point of vanity or obsession.
Eat right most of the time,excercise and feel good about who you are.

I can spot that a mile away. Even through the blur of self absorbed cel phone gabbing nitwits,talking about themselves constantly.

See- I'm looking beyond those who are obviously petty and shallow to the ones that look comfortable and confident.
Looking great is clean and a woman that takes care of herself, but not to the point of vanity or obsession.
Eat right most of the time,excercise and feel good about who you are.

I can spot that a mile away. Even through the blur of self absorbed cel phone gabbing nitwits,talking about themselves constantly.

and we aren't doing it for you. why do you assume we are?

and btw, it's nearly every woman in existence on one level or another.

go ask your wife why she does things that don't make sense to you, I am sure if you approach it correctly you might find out that there are some things she does that she does for reasons like these.

Sometimes I'm so happy I'm a man. Things are nice and simple for us.

QFT.

(especially when peeing. ;) )

you never know how hard it is to escape until you have been there.

there is a lot of pressure on women that I think men just don't understand.

I have escaped most of it by not hanging around with other women much, but there is always that question every time I do anything "why am I doing this?" and I try to figure out if I want to, or if I feel like I am "supposed to".

You're right, it is impossible to know that until you've been there. I may not have felt like that on a level anywhere near what you say you have to go through, but I can almost imagine what that's like. The scary and confusing part is, it's quite possible that it's a self sustaining cycle that would simply go away if everybody realised that they hated what was happening just as much as everybody else, and THAT is something that a lot more people can understand.

Well... the way I see it, it doesn't make a lot of difference to me.
I used to walk barefoot a lot during my childhood, and as a result have rather wide feet now, with the toes spread slightly. In addition, I inherited my father's high instep.
Finding shoes - any kind of shoes - is a nightmare for me, and I hate having to wear in new shoes. I found over the years that wearing about 3 -4 cm heels makes shoes on the whole a LOT more comfortable for me, so that's what I'll usually wear.
I've got some flats, too, for hill walking and things like that, but I fear the day that they'll be beyond repair and I have to get new ones....

You're right, it is impossible to know that until you've been there. I may not have felt like that on a level anywhere near what you say you have to go through, but I can almost imagine what that's like. The scary and confusing part is, it's quite possible that it's a self sustaining cycle that would simply go away if everybody realised that they hated what was happening just as much as everybody else, and THAT is something that a lot more people can understand.

I quit. I quit doing things that I felt like I was "supposed" to do, and only now do the things I want to do, and it has thrown me out of my social circle (not that it was the most healthy social circle to be in in the first place) it doesn't seem to be helping the big picture any, and to tell the truth, I am not really more happy than I was before, seeing as my social opportunities are somewhat more limited now.

Shit. I wish they'd go back to binding womens' feet like in China.

I look at women who wear heels like I look at men who wear ties. Why? They're stupid and serve no real purpose and heels will actually cause damage in the long run.

Of course, the whole idea of "dress clothing" is lost on me.

Society. Whenever does something that is of questionable judgment, blame society. It is the best oversimplification I can think of. A woman wearing such uncomfortable footwear must be because society tells them to. Yeah, that must be it.

Gift-of-God was the one who brought up the idea that lesbians and feminists are the source of all that is good advice for young women.

Might be something weird about the shape of my feet, but I actually generally feel more comfortable with a slight heel - 1/2 inch to an inch, I would guess. I don't like thin heels though - I'm more fond of chunky heels or even shoes that are more like wedges or platforms (but still fairly low).

I'll occasionally put on heels closer to 2 inches for a dress-up affair, but only if I won't really be standing much. For instance, at my rehearsal dinner, I wore high heels, but for the rehearsal part (where I had to walk and stand on brick paths), I wore flats instead.

You're right, it is impossible to know that until you've been there. I may not have felt like that on a level anywhere near what you say you have to go through, but I can almost imagine what that's like. The scary and confusing part is, it's quite possible that it's a self sustaining cycle that would simply go away if everybody realised that they hated what was happening just as much as everybody else, and THAT is something that a lot more people can understand.

here's (http://www.leoratanenbaum.com/work2.htm) a book about it.

What I find amazing in this thread is that apparently, only feminists and lesbians can give good advice to young girls.

What a load of shit.

*snip*

So I teach her that as a woman, she needs to prepare herself to have options - rather than rely on someone else to support her later in life.
From what you posted here, it sounds like you are a feminist.

Personally, I happen to agree with the statement that only feminists can give good advice to young girls. Or, at least, it's technically possible for a non-feminist to give good advice to young girls, but if they do it will be in spite of their lack of feminism, and never because of it.

Anti-feminists can teach young girls by being an example of what not to be, but that's about it. :D

And feminists? Why not just smart women? I don't think feminists are getting anywhere.
Feminists are the only reason those daughters get to vote, have careers, own property of their own, choose their medical care, seek divorce from abusive men...I could keep listing, if you like.

Feminists have spent generations fighting for the idea that female human beings are full human beings. If you can't bring yourself to thank them for it, at least have the respect to remain silent instead of insulting them. :D

Gift-of-God was the one who brought up the idea that lesbians and feminists are the source of all that is good advice for young women.

gift-of-god didn't mention lesbians at all.

I am really really short, in fact I am shrinking, 4 years ago I was 5'2" and now I am 5'0"

I don't wear stilettos though, mostly chunky pumps and wedges. In general I only wear them on dates or when I need to look intimidating...otherwise I wear flats or tennis shoes.

If my husband needs me to go out on a business dinner or something I usually will wear a higher heel than normal (think 4 inch pumps) because he is over a foot taller than me and we look more "normal" if I am closer to his height.
I'm also a short female dating a much taller male, and I've never seen any reason why I should wear uncomfortable, dangerous footwear to try to be closer to his height. That's as silly as expecting him to adopt an uncomfortable bent posture all the time, in order to appear closer to my height.

But, then, the one thing I'm not usually guilty of is seeking to be "normal." I tend to regard most "normal" relationships as pointless, boring, and unworthy of imitation. I'm a snob like that.

Im a man and I think high heels are crass and tacky, not the people who wear them mind, though they can also be crass and tacky.

A few thoughts on womens shoes:

1) Platform heels. Add 3 inches in height, little incline, much like wearing really tall flats.

2) Buy comfortable heels. Yes, there are some out there; I have actually found a pair.

Bingo.

Like I said before, I'm a small person. Believe me, I understand the desire to add a few inches in height. But there are plenty of comfortable, well-designed, supportive shoes that accomplish this. There is absolutely no reason to totter around on pointy little heels with straps cutting into your feet and ankles. There is absolutely no need to have your toes compressed and pinched.

Three pages in...

Not that I disagree, but that image of the woman in normal and then in high heels is misdirecting. They are tracing her body shape while she is standing in normal shoes, then doing it again while she is apparently playing hopscotch in high heels or doing anything but standing straight.
Well, it's misleading in other ways, too. Take a look at what Woman In Heels is wearing, compared to Woman In Flats.

gift-of-god didn't mention lesbians at all.
Remember: all lesbians are feminists, and all feminists are lesbians! It's true, I heard them say it on Fox News this one time!

Remember: all lesbians are feminists, and all feminists are lesbians! It's true, I heard them say it on Fox News this one time!

lol :D

Remember: all lesbians are feminists, and all feminists are lesbians! It's true, I heard them say it on Fox News this one time!

and they don't shave their legs and dream about castrating men.

Well, it's misleading in other ways, too. Take a look at what Woman In Heels is wearing, compared to Woman In Flats.
That really has nothing to do with the medical "facts" they were trying to convey, which is what I was looking at.

All right, a little fashion history here: High heels are actually a very, very old style, dating from the 18th century, when they were UNISEX. That's right, men wore them, too.

The 18th century is one of my favorite fashion periods, when both men and women went to extraordinary lengths to dress up for fancy occasions. Women would corset themselves into weird shapes and heft reinforced skirts the size of dinner tables around with them, while men loaded their arms down with pounds and pounds of lace, silk, wool and embroidery on their sleeves and piled massive wigs on their heads, and -- I swear this, it's absolutely true -- even padded out their silk stockings to make their legs look shapelier if they were too thin!! And both sexes did all of this while tottering around in high heeled shoes and wearing tons of garish make-up. And don't forget the perfume that could stun an elephant from 30 yards away.

Why did they do this? Several reasons:

1) They could afford to. The people who dressed this way were the rich, and the elaborateness and impracticality of the clothing was meant to show off how rich they were. You could afford to wear clothes you couldn't walk in because you had servants to walk for you, get it? The poor, working classes, and middle classes did not wear high heels.

2) They only did it for special occasions. All the fancy pagentry associated with these outfits required hours and hours of preparation and it was all shockingly expensive. Most of the time, even the very wealthy wore the same relatively plain clothes and flat shoes that everyone else wore. The association of high heeled shoes with special occasions explains why they are still considered a requirement for dress clothes today.

3) The most uncomfortable parts of the outfits were the ones designed to show off the sexiest parts of the person's body. So, for women, the most important garment was the corset because by cinching and lifting, it emphasized her breasts -- in the most extreme fads of the 18th century, the breasts themselves were left completely or nearly completely exposed, like they were being presented on a platter. And the most important garment for men was the high-heeled shoe -- that's right, it was more vital for men to wear them than for women. Why? Because a man's leg was considered very sexy in those days, and the muscle-bunching effect of the high heel made the man's leg look more muscular. You see all those full body portraits of kings and princes and other social leaders from the 18th century that show the man standing or sitting with one leg extended slightly before him? That was to show off his gorgeous legs. Even the styles of bowing were about that. The woman's courtsy gave the man a good look at her breasts. The man's courtly bow with leg extended gave the woman a good look at his leg.

So, basically, money, status, and sex -- that's what it's all about.

But those days have passed and there are new ways of showing off our money, status and sexiness, and that's why I do not wear high heeled shoes. I won't put myself through that torture if I can get the same social effect by not doing it. And frankly, I'm not willing to torture myself to look sexy to men, if men will not torture themselves to look sexy for me.

To all of you, I recommend you check out the fashion designs of Yohji Yamamoto. He abandoned the notion of high-heels many years ago as being anti-woman. He only shows his clothes with flats of various styles. A few years ago, he even designed a high-fashion sneaker which is made by Adidas.

http://www.style.com/fashionshows/designerdirectory/YJIYMOTO/seasons/

That really has nothing to do with the medical "facts" they were trying to convey, which is what I was looking at.
Erm, I know. I was just pointing out that it's not a perfect graphic anyhow.

But if you don't buy the medical information provided in the article, please feel free to present alternative sources. Much as I love to hear my own opinions validated, I don't want to ignore important information that contradicts them. If you've got it, share it!

Gift-of-God was the one who brought up the idea that lesbians and feminists are the source of all that is good advice for young women.

Gift-of-God said "smart women and feminists." Not "lesbians."

Unless you think that only stupid women would have sex with men...?

Gift-of-God said "smart women and feminists." Not "lesbians."

Unless you think that only stupid women would have sex with men...?

Well some have been known to fall for some pretty dumb pick-up lines...

I love 'em. It's like a handy little silk leash. Hawt.

Sudden...urge...to buy...many...many...silk...ties....

Well some have been known to fall for some pretty dumb pick-up lines...

having never used a pick-up line myself i may be unqualified to say this, but, i've never heard of a pick-up line itself actually working.

But if you don't buy the medical information provided in the article, please feel free to present alternative sources. Much as I love to hear my own opinions validated, I don't want to ignore important information that contradicts them. If you've got it, share it!
I only had a problem with the misleading photo. A failure to have the person in heels in the same position as the person without heels totally invalidates their "OMG, Look what wearing heels does to the spine!" crap they were trying to convey with those photos.

The first time my wife tried to lead me around by a tie or my necklace was the last.

I ain't your dog and this isn't a collar, don't try and lead me around like it is.

having never used a pick-up line myself i may be unqualified to say this, but, i've never heard of a pick-up line itself actually working.

Neither have I, really. Just trying to continue the joke.

The first time my wife tried to lead me around by a tie or my necklace was the last.

I ain't your dog and this isn't a collar, don't try and lead me around like it is.



Neither have I, really. Just trying to continue the joke.

oh, sorry!

*sheepish*

I only had a problem with the misleading photo. A failure to have the person in heels in the same position as the person without heels totally invalidates their "OMG, Look what wearing heels does to the spine!" crap they were trying to convey with those photos.

I think the picture is an exaggerated example of how high heels actually will change your posture. Your knees will probably be pushed forward some, while the posture in your spine will likely change as well. I'm guessing it would be difficult to see the alignment changes without real measurements, so they would have exaggerated them for the picture.

At least, that's what I assumed.

Erm, I know. I was just pointing out that it's not a perfect graphic anyhow.

But if you don't buy the medical information provided in the article, please feel free to present alternative sources. Much as I love to hear my own opinions validated, I don't want to ignore important information that contradicts them. If you've got it, share it!

On bunions:
Quote from Clinically Oriented Anatomy, 5th ed.
Hallux valgus is a foot deformity caused by pressure from footwear or degenerative joint disease; it is characterized by a lateral deviation of the great toe... In some people, the painful deviation is so large that the great toe overlaps the 2nd toe and there is a decrease in the medial longitudinal arch. Such a deviation occurs especially in females, and its frequency increases with age. These individuals cannot move their 1st digit away from their 2nd digit because the sesamoids under the head of the 1st metatarsal are usually displaced and lie in the space between the heads of the 1st and 2nd metatarsals. the 1st metatarsal shifts medially and the sesamoids shift laterally. Often the surrounding tissues swell and the resultant pressure and friction against the shoe cause a subcutaneous bursa to form; when tender and inflamed, the bursa is called a bunion.

You got the bunions right.

That is why folks are reminded to eschew pointed shoes. The effects are exacerbated when the shoe has a high heel, as the entire weight is transferred to the forefoot; thereby pushing the forefoot further into the pointed tip of the shoe.

And oh yeah, I agree with the pictures; the two pictures are not comparable. The second one with heels would show how much worse or apparent it is when walking.

FASHION AND APPEARANCE

Clothes are the lowest priority for an engineer, assuming the basic thresholds for temperature and decency have been satisfied. If no appendages are freezing or sticking together, and if no genitalia or mammary glands are swinging around in plain view, then the objective of clothing has been met. Anything else is a waste.

DATING AND SOCIAL LIFE

Dating is never easy for engineers. A normal person will employ various indirect and duplicitous methods to create a false impression of attractiveness. Engineers are incapable of placing appearance above function. That’s what marketing is for.


:D

Then your talking to the wrong type of engineer love.

I think the picture is an exaggerated example of how high heels actually will change your posture. Your knees will probably be pushed forward some,
Sure, your knee will be pushed forward... when you're walking.

I love 'em. It's like a handy little silk leash. Hawt.

So is the binding of women and their helplessness in high heels :p


hehe

I though sharing this song was somewhat appropriate:

Crass > Bata Motel

I've got 54321,
I've got a red pair of high-heels on,
Tumble me over, it doesn't take much,
Tumble me over, tumble me, push.
In my red high-heels, I have no control,
The rituals of repression are so old,
You can do what you like, there'll be no reprisal,
I'm yours, yes I'm yours, it's my means of survival.

I've got 54321,
Come on my love, I know you're strong,
Push me hard, make me stagger,
The pain in my back just doesn't matter.
You force-hold me above the ground,
I can't get away, my feet are bound,
So I'm bound to say
That I'm bound to stay.

Today I look so good,
Just like I know I should,
My breasts to tempt inside my bra,
My face is painted like a movie star,
I've studied my flaws in your reflection
And put them to rights with savage correction,
I've turned my statuesque perfection
And shone it in your direction.
So come on my darling, make me yours,
Trip me over, show me the floor,
Tease me, tease me, make me stay,
In my red high-heels I can't get away.
I'm trussed and bound like an oven ready bird
But I bleed without dying and I won't say a word.
Slice my flesh and I'll ride the scar,
Put me into gear like your lady car,
Drive me fast and crash me crazy,
I'll rise from the wreckage as fresh as a daisy.
These wounds leave furrows as they heal,
I've traveled them, they're red and real,
I know them well, they're part of me,
My birth, my sex, my history,
They grew with me, my closest friend,
My pain's my own, my pain's my end.
Clip my wings so you know were I am,
I can't get lost when you're my man.
Tame me so i know your call,
I've stabbed my heels so I am tall,
I've bound my twisted falling fall,
Beautiful mute against the wall,
Beautifully mutilated as I fall.
Use me, don't lose me.

I've got 54321,
I've got a red pair of high-heels on.
Strap my ankles, break my heels,
Make me kneel, make me feel.
Turn, turn, turn, like a clockwork doll,
Put in your key and give me a whirl.
Tease me, tease me, the reason to play,
In my red high-heels I can't get away.
I'll be your bonsai, your beautiful bonsai,
Your black-eye bonsai, erotically rotting.
Will my tiny feet fit your desire?
Warped and tied I walk on fire.
Burn me out, twist my wrists,
I promise not to shout, beat me with your fists.
Squeeze me, squeeze me, make me feel,
In my red high-heels I'm an easy kill.
Tease me, tease me, make me see,
You're the only one, I need to be me.
Thank you, will you take me?
Thank you, will you make me?
Thank you, will you break me?
Use me, don't lose me,
Taste me, don't waste me.
Use, lose, taste, waste.

For any guys who claim that high heels are sexy or make a woman more attractive, please consider the fact that you are saying you find it attractive when a woman is, effectively, hobbled and unable to run from you. You may want to reconsider advertising that to others. ;)
It's the modern equivalent of foot binding, no?

I'm also a short female dating a much taller male, and I've never seen any reason why I should wear uncomfortable, dangerous footwear to try to be closer to his height. That's as silly as expecting him to adopt an uncomfortable bent posture all the time, in order to appear closer to my height.

But, then, the one thing I'm not usually guilty of is seeking to be "normal." I tend to regard most "normal" relationships as pointless, boring, and unworthy of imitation. I'm a snob like that.

I wear them when I want to, unless I feel the need to.....which is only when I am going on business dinners with hubby, as much as I don't like it, the world works in ways that I can't control. Namely, that there are times when I am a reflection of him, and those times I do what I can to make the best impression possible. When you are in a business like he is first impression is everything and the fact that he trusts me enough to be part of that, means that I feel the responsibility not to screw it up. (though I have in the past) Wearing a low heel to "look more balanced" is the easy part, keeping my mouth shut and being diplomatic when the misogynist across the table says something idiotic, is difficult. ;)

The good news is that I have nearly gotten myself out of business dinners, until the last one where I actually made friends with one of his client's wife, so then I screwed up my position, since it was proven to corporate that I can be personable. :mad:

That is why folks are reminded to eschew pointed shoes. The effects are exacerbated when the shoe has a high heel, as the entire weight is transferred to the forefoot; thereby pushing the forefoot further into the pointed tip of the shoe.

Am I the only one who thinks the super-pointy shoes are ugly as sin anyways?


Sure, your knee will be pushed forward... when you're walking.

Even when you aren't, they are somewhat pushed forward in heels. Your center of balance changes and it's natural to bend the knee forward slightly when one goes up on the balls of one's feet or wears heels (which does much the same thing).

One of the problems I've seen with my own posture in heels - even relatively small ones - is that I try to stand with the same posture I would in flats. This means that I put too much weight on the heels and feel a little tottery unless I correct it. If one is standing comfortably in heels, the whole body is pushed forward a bit, with the knees more (albeit not nearly as exaggerated as the picture) bent.

It's the modern equivalent of foot binding, no?

Thats not so far from the truth,in my opinion.

Some women do fine in them-walk effortlessly and may never have any difficulty.
But it stands to reason that bunching your toes up into a point and lifting your heel a few inches goes against nature's intent for form and function.

I'd rather see women wearing comfortable shoes,properly fitted.

I once went to Cedar Point. I was walking around in broken in sneakers. After about an hour I took every opportunity to sit, my feet where throbing. I was walking past one of the guess-your-weight/age booths, the lady working there, wearing running shoes, stopped a passer-by. The lady was traversing through the amusement park in high-heels. The booth-lady called her gutsy, over the mega-phone. I agreed, in silence of course, but all she did was look embarassed and walk away. Maybe it's because I weigh much more than this lady, and a guy, but I could phathom doing that.

Am I the only one who thinks the super-pointy shoes are ugly as sin anyways?
my husband doesn't like them, he says they make him think that the woman who wears them is bitchy (most likely because her feet hurt)

that being said I don't generally hang around with women, men make more sense to me.

I knew I've always liked you,Smunkee. ;)

Thats not so far from the truth,in my opinion.

Some women do fine in them-walk effortlessly and may never have any difficulty.
But it stands to reason that bunching your toes up into a point and lifting your heel a few inches goes against nature's intent for form and function.

I'd rather see women wearing comfortable shoes,properly fitted.

Absolutely. If nothing else, they reduce womens' ability to move quickly, which makes them dependent on others in emergency situations. It hobbles them, literally.

having never used a pick-up line myself i may be unqualified to say this, but, i've never heard of a pick-up line itself actually working.
Pick-up lines never work. Sometimes it appears so, if the woman has already made up her mind that she wants the man before he even opens his mouth. Then, if the line is not TOO god-awful stupid, she might ignore it.

I myself have a pair of thigh highs with 7 inch heels for when I dress like a man slut at the fetish balls. I must say though, my feet are killing me by the middle of the night (unless I'm sloshed)

I knew I've always liked you,Smunkee. ;)

it took me a while to un-program my bad programming, but once I did, my marriage was 100% better.

for example I learned all sorts of neat things about men

1 they say what they mean
2 they mean what they say


those two alone make communication with him so much easier than communicating with anyone else in the world (especially most of the women I know)

Absolutely. If nothing else, they reduce womens' ability to move quickly, which makes them dependent on others in emergency situations. It hobbles them, literally.

I can run in heels, but then again I have learned as a parent never to wear anything you can't chase down your kids in. ;)

Am I the only one who thinks the super-pointy shoes are ugly as sin anyways?
No, I hate them too. I won't even wear flats or low heels with pointy toes. Dumb-ass looking shoes.



Even when you aren't, they are somewhat pushed forward in heels. Your center of balance changes and it's natural to bend the knee forward slightly when one goes up on the balls of one's feet or wears heels (which does much the same thing).

One of the problems I've seen with my own posture in heels - even relatively small ones - is that I try to stand with the same posture I would in flats. This means that I put too much weight on the heels and feel a little tottery unless I correct it. If one is standing comfortably in heels, the whole body is pushed forward a bit, with the knees more (albeit not nearly as exaggerated as the picture) bent.
The only way to keep one's knees straight when one's toes are pointed is by effort of the muscles or by locking the knees. Both are straining, and locking the knee is bad for the joint. Take a good look at a ballet dancer en pointe to see what the muscles are doing to keep the knee straight when the toes are pointed and weight is on them.

Absolutely. If nothing else, they reduce womens' ability to move quickly, which makes them dependent on others in emergency situations. It hobbles them, literally.

I've nerver witnessed it personally, but I can imagine the difficulty wearing heels in an office building and there was an emergency whereelevators couldnt be used and you had to evacuate-Running down just a few flights of stairs in a panicked crowd wouldnt be fair.
Or having to evac from a plane?

Or even your car breaks down in the winter or you have to walk anywhere unpaved unexpectedly.

It just puts a person at a disadvantage that could be just an inconvenience or life threatening.

My wife has many pairs of heels, but only wears them on occaisions.

Pick-up lines never work. Sometimes it appears so, if the woman has already made up her mind that she wants the man before he even opens his mouth. Then, if the line is not TOO god-awful stupid, she might ignore it.

that's what i was thinking, or if the line was so-bad-it's-funny it might be an icebreaker so the real seducing can happen.

it took me a while to un-program my bad programming, but once I did, my marriage was 100% better.

for example I learned all sorts of neat things about men

1 they say what they mean
2 they mean what they say


those two alone make communication with him so much easier than communicating with anyone else in the world (especially most of the women I know)

Look at that, you've figured us out.

Now if the rest of womankind could just do the same.:p

I've nerver witnessed it personally, but I can imagine the difficulty wearing heels in an office building and there was an emergency whereelevators couldnt be used and you had to evacuate-Running down just a few flights of stairs in a panicked crowd wouldnt be fair.
Or having to evac from a plane?

Or even your car breaks down in the winter or you have to walk anywhere unpaved unexpectedly.

It just puts a person at a disadvantage that could be just an inconvenience or life threatening.

My wife has many pairs of heels, but only wears them on occaisions.
Well, they DO come off. In a pinch, a woman can just take her chances barefoot.

But now you know why women who wear heels regularly -- such as for office work -- often carry flats or sneakers with them in those big heavy bags they carry everywhere.

I've nerver witnessed it personally, but I can imagine the difficulty wearing heels in an office building and there was an emergency whereelevators couldnt be used and you had to evacuate-Running down just a few flights of stairs in a panicked crowd wouldnt be fair.
Or having to evac from a plane?

Or even your car breaks down in the winter or you have to walk anywhere unpaved unexpectedly.

It just puts a person at a disadvantage that could be just an inconvenience or life threatening.

My wife has many pairs of heels, but only wears them on occaisions.
I have walking shoes in my trunk in case I ever get stuck somewhere and have to walk....

as far as the other, I would just take my shoes off....

it took me a while to un-program my bad programming, but once I did, my marriage was 100% better.

for example I learned all sorts of neat things about men

1 they say what they mean
2 they mean what they say


those two alone make communication with him so much easier than communicating with anyone else in the world (especially most of the women I know)

Holy Shit!!! You've made a major breakthrough there!!
Please share it with your sisters.

And- add a #3- Men also dont waste a lot of words. We expect plain talk.

So-we easily miss hints and clues about birthday presents unless they are stated clearly. It doesnt mean we dont care.
We DO care. We just cant understand you.

that's what i was thinking, or if the line was so-bad-it's-funny it might be an icebreaker so the real seducing can happen.
Yeah, basically. That's how it works. :)

Holy Shit!!! You've made a major breakthrough there!!
Please share it with your sisters.

And- add a #3- Men also dont waste a lot of words. We expect plain talk.

So-we easily miss hints and clues about birthday presents unless they are stated clearly. It doesnt mean we dont care.
We DO care. We just cant understand you.

yeah, he expects the same from me too. If you want a man to truly understand you

1 say what you mean
2 mean what you say

if he asks "are you mad at me?"
and you say "no"

he thinks you aren't mad at him

if you want something specific for your birthday buy it yourself, or ask him specifically for it.

Originally Posted by Smunkeeville
it took me a while to un-program my bad programming, but once I did, my marriage was 100% better.

for example I learned all sorts of neat things about men

1 they say what they mean
2 they mean what they say


those two alone make communication with him so much easier than communicating with anyone else in the world (especially most of the women I know)
Holy Shit!!! You've made a major breakthrough there!!
Please share it with your sisters.

And- add a #3- Men also dont waste a lot of words. We expect plain talk.

So-we easily miss hints and clues about birthday presents unless they are stated clearly. It doesnt mean we dont care.
We DO care. We just cant understand you.
OK, hate to say this but -- not the men I've met!! I guess I'm just surrounded by too many metrosexuals, but ye gods, so many of the men I've known -- personally or at work or wherever -- I just wanted to smack upside the head and scream, "Get to the point already, goddamn you! Quit playing games and say what you mean, you sniveling little weasel!!"

My experience has been that men are just as indirect, manipulative game-players as women. They just play a slightly different game for slightly different stakes.

I have no patience with such nonsense, from either sex.

yeah, he expects the same from me too. If you want a man to truly understand you

1 say what you mean
2 mean what you say

if he asks "are you mad at me?"
and you say "no"

he thinks you aren't mad at him

if you want something specific for your birthday buy it yourself, or ask him specifically for it.

If I dont know exactly what my wife wants on her birthday,Christmas,Mother's Day, etc... I get her a small token,a real lovey card and give her cash to do whatever she wants with.

We discussed pedicures earlier- She enjoys a gift certificate for two for a pedicure for her and a friend at a local spa.

And for Mother's Day-I got her two tickets to see Tim McGraw and Faith Hill together-first tier,front row in July.
I knew she wanted to see them and I know she is gonna flip when she gets these.

We DO care. We just cant understand you.
I sure know I don't speak subtlehintenese.

Am I the only one who thinks the super-pointy shoes are ugly as sin anyways?


no youre not. i think its because im old enough to have born into a pointy toe shoe era and have it go out of style. its hard to see something as beautiful when you have had to learn that it is ugly.

but really, the pointier the shoe the worse it looks. you are adding on a couple of inches to the length of your foot with the extreme point.


Even when you aren't, they are somewhat pushed forward in heels. Your center of balance changes and it's natural to bend the knee forward slightly when one goes up on the balls of one's feet or wears heels (which does much the same thing).

One of the problems I've seen with my own posture in heels - even relatively small ones - is that I try to stand with the same posture I would in flats. This means that I put too much weight on the heels and feel a little tottery unless I correct it. If one is standing comfortably in heels, the whole body is pushed forward a bit, with the knees more (albeit not nearly as exaggerated as the picture) bent.

i think pantless needs to try on some very high heeled shoes to see how it works. until you have tried walking on 3" spikes you just dont know how hard it is.

OK, hate to say this but -- not the men I've met!! I guess I'm just surrounded by too many metrosexuals, but ye gods, so many of the men I've known -- personally or at work or wherever -- I just wanted to smack upside the head and scream, "Get to the point already, goddamn you! Quit playing games and say what you mean, you sniveling little weasel!!"

My experience has been that men are just as indirect, manipulative game-players as women. They just play a slightly different game for slightly different stakes.

I have no patience with such nonsense, from either sex.

I dont play games-I speak very directly,in clear terms when it counts. When I'm joking around,its all double talk and inuendo, but other than that I'm pretty direct.
ANd if I inadvertantly hurt someone's feelings? They deserved it and were asking for it.

i think pantless needs to try on some very high heeled shoes to see how it works. until you have tried walking on 3" spikes you just dont know how hard it is.
I think you need to get your shit straight. I havn't even asserted a damn opinion on heels one way or another. I'm taking issue with a misleading photo comparing the spine of a woman in flat shoes standing up straight and that of another woman in heels apparently playing hopscotch and comparing the two to make a point about what heels can do to your spine. It's bullshit. That's the kind of shit that makes people think "we are fighting them over there, so we don't have to fight them here" - intellectual dishonesty.

I sure know I don't speak subtlehintenese.

me neither. Subtle to me is taking it out and asking her "What are we gonna do about this?

:D

OK, hate to say this but -- not the men I've met!! I guess I'm just surrounded by too many metrosexuals, but ye gods, so many of the men I've known -- personally or at work or wherever -- I just wanted to smack upside the head and scream, "Get to the point already, goddamn you! Quit playing games and say what you mean, you sniveling little weasel!!"

My experience has been that men are just as indirect, manipulative game-players as women. They just play a slightly different game for slightly different stakes.

I have no patience with such nonsense, from either sex.

I grew up in a family of manipulative women....it was hard to break the cycle.
in fact, all the men in the family had learned the game, so when I met up with hubby and he didn't seem to be playing any game I was aware of, I got confused.

yeah, he expects the same from me too. If you want a man to truly understand you

1 say what you mean
2 mean what you say

if he asks "are you mad at me?"
and you say "no"

he thinks you aren't mad at him

if you want something specific for your birthday buy it yourself, or ask him specifically for it.
I wish my life were that easy. I love it when a man gives me a spontaneous gift of his own choosing, but when it comes to birthdays and holidays, etc, I can't be bothered to remember my own birthday, let alone worry about how romantic my man should make it for me. I'll be satisfied with -- even surprised by -- a few flowers and let that be that. But I've been with so many men who actually would get all pouty and moody if I didn't demand fussy things from them, and then, when I did ask for something (anything) for my birthday (because they seemed to want me to) turned around and complained about how high maintenance I was suddenly being.

That would usually be when I left them to complain about how suddenly I broke up with them.

Am I the only one who thinks the super-pointy shoes are ugly as sin anyways?

Nope. I'm with you on that one, and my boyfriend says he finds them slightly frightening.

His words:

"When I see a woman in pointy-toe shoes, there's this part of me that can't help but worry that her feet are actually shaped that way..."

I sure know I don't speak subtlehintenese.

I don't even try. If it's not important enough to ask it directly, then it's not important enough to drag me in as well.

I think you need to get your shit straight. I havn't even asserted a damn opinion on heels one way or another. I'm taking issue with a misleading photo comparing the spine of a woman in flat shoes standing up straight and that of another woman in heels apparently playing hopscotch and comparing the two to make a point about what heels can do to your spine. It's bullshit. That's the kind of shit that makes people think "we are fighting them over there, so we don't have to fight them here" - intellectual dishonesty.

so try on some high pointy heeled pointy toe shoes and see for yourself how it works. as bad as it looks, it feels much worse.

I wish my life were that easy. I love it when a man gives me a spontaneous gift of his own choosing, but when it comes to birthdays and holidays, etc, I can't be bothered to remember my own birthday, let alone worry about how romantic my man should make it for me. I'll be satisfied with -- even surprised by -- a few flowers and let that be that. But I've been with so many men who actually would get all pouty and moody if I didn't demand fussy things from them, and then, when I did ask for something (anything) for my birthday (because they seemed to want me to) turned around and complained about how high maintenance I was suddenly being.

That would usually be when I left them to complain about how suddenly I broke up with them.

I am not easy to shop for, mostly because the things I want aren't typical, so hubby basically doesn't shop for me. I don't like flowers, jewelry, candy, etc. I am sure I confused more than one guy I was dating......hubby gets it though, for example, Mother's Day is this weekend, and I am going on a road trip with some friends, he and the kids are staying home, I will be back Sunday and the house will be cleaned, and I won't have any chores to catch up on, and we will all watch a movie. I am spoiled rotten, I know it.

I dont play games-I speak very directly,in clear terms when it counts. When I'm joking around,its all double talk and inuendo, but other than that I'm pretty direct.
ANd if I inadvertantly hurt someone's feelings? They deserved it and were asking for it.
I always try never to hurt anyone's feelings inadvertently. ;)

The best compliment anyone ever paid me was when a co-worker (a man) said, "You know what I like about you? You're no-bullshit. You don't give it, and you don't take it. No bullshit with you, ever."

it took me a while to un-program my bad programming, but once I did, my marriage was 100% better.

for example I learned all sorts of neat things about men

1 they say what they mean
2 they mean what they say

In my experience, this is no more (or less) likely to be true of men than it is to be true of women.

Men and women tend (general trend) to bullshit about slightly different things, but I find that the over-all volume of bullshit is pretty much equal.


those two alone make communication with him so much easier than communicating with anyone else in the world (especially most of the women I know)
My biggest problem with my boyfriend has been convincing him that I simply don't have the patience for the standard dating games that most people play.

I say what I mean, and mean what I say, mainly because I don't feel interested in wasting my time on confusing passive aggressive crap and drama. I'd rather be shagging or playing videogames or reading or eating or sleeping. Hell, I'd rather be working on my thesis than playing goofy-ass head games with the person I'm dating. And right now I hate my thesis with a fiery passion (it's being mean to me).

I always try never to hurt anyone's feelings inadvertently. ;)

The best compliment anyone ever paid me was when a co-worker (a man) said, "You know what I like about you? You're no-bullshit. You don't give it, and you don't take it. No bullshit with you, ever."

Good to know. I would take that as a compliment too.

But now you know why women who wear heels regularly -- such as for office work -- often carry flats or sneakers with them in those big heavy bags they carry everywhere.
I've never understood this. I also didn't understand why EVERY SINGLE GIRL at my prom took her shoes off within 5 minutes of arriving.

What is the point of shoes you can't or won't wear?

My biggest problem with my boyfriend has been convincing him that I simply don't have the patience for the standard dating games that most people play.

I say what I mean, and mean what I say, mainly because I don't feel interested in wasting my time on confusing passive aggressive crap and drama. I'd rather be shagging or playing videogames or reading or eating or sleeping. Hell, I'd rather be working on my thesis than playing goofy-ass head games with the person I'm dating. And right now I hate my thesis with a fiery passion (it's being mean to me).

and if all the women around me were like you, I would have more female friends. ;)

maybe it's a regional thing, but there is a lot of manipulation, and backbiting, and such with women around here.....I gave up on it a while ago, and all of the sudden I am not "socially acceptable"

I've never understood this. I also didn't understand why EVERY SINGLE GIRL at my prom took her shoes off within 5 minutes of arriving.

What is the point of shoes you can't or won't wear?

Aah, but i bet about 90% of the photos were taken in the first 5 mins aswell (or at least 90 of the photos in which everyone isnt sloshed with smeared making and a guy on their face)

My experience has been that men are just as indirect, manipulative game-players as women. They just play a slightly different game for slightly different stakes.

I have no patience with such nonsense, from either sex.
Yeah, I wish it was as simple as "males are straightforward," but it's not. My blunt nature tends to baffle my male friends until they get used to me.

Aah, but i bet about 90% of the photos were taken in the first 5 mins aswell (or at least 90 of the photos in which everyone isnt sloshed with smeared making and a guy on their face)
This is true. But why would you want a photo record of the fact that you were stupid enough to drop $150 on a pair of shoes you didn't want to wear?

Bare feet FTW - just as mothernature intended! 100% pure footed goodness!

Yeah, I wish it was as simple as "males are straightforward," but it's not. My blunt nature tends to baffle my male friends until they get used to me.

Males, I would hazard to guess, are perhaps more straightforward once IN the relationship.

But then again, some of the time, the game's half the fun.

and if all the women around me were like you, I would have more female friends. ;)

maybe it's a regional thing, but there is a lot of manipulation, and backbiting, and such with women around here.....I gave up on it a while ago, and all of the sudden I am not "socially acceptable"
(Bold mine) I suppose that's very possible. In some areas, aggression is particularly strongly discouraged in females, and girls are taught to be submissive and meek lest the boys all reject them. It figures that the girls will have to find sneakier or more passive-aggressive ways to express their aggression.

nobody liked the Crass song I posted :(



Fine, I'll just sit over here and count my toes.

I am not easy to shop for, mostly because the things I want aren't typical, so hubby basically doesn't shop for me. I don't like flowers, jewelry, candy, etc. I am sure I confused more than one guy I was dating......hubby gets it though, for example, Mother's Day is this weekend, and I am going on a road trip with some friends, he and the kids are staying home, I will be back Sunday and the house will be cleaned, and I won't have any chores to catch up on, and we will all watch a movie. I am spoiled rotten, I know it.
I'm actually really easy to shop for, if the man is not caught up in those games we're talking about. Any little token that says he was thinking about me will do the trick, even if the object itself is not something I like. I'm a real chocolates and flowers girl. A couple of fresh daisies or a box of just four half-way decent truffles, and I'm smiling for the rest of the day. Hell, a guy could hand me a packet of Twizzlers and say "I thought of you," and I'd be pleased. On rare occasions, a guy has known me well enough to surprise me with something I really liked -- like the time I got a very good book of Native American myths for my birthday.

But what I don't like is guys who fall into that game of, essentially, buying a woman's favor with expensive gifts and then get angry with me if I'm not impressed by how much money they are spending even though I didn't ask them to.

yeah, he expects the same from me too. If you want a man to truly understand you

1 say what you mean
2 mean what you say

if he asks "are you mad at me?"
and you say "no"

he thinks you aren't mad at him

if you want something specific for your birthday buy it yourself, or ask him specifically for it.

i think these are pretty good rules for speaking to anyone. and i think men are probably just as guilty of ignoring them as women. look at politicians, most of them are men and they haven't got a straight talker among them. even the ones who are self-styled straight talkers twist the facts to suit their opinions. subtlety is lost on most people, probably why some of the most devious politicians are the ones who get into power.

(Bold mine) I suppose that's very possible. In some areas, aggression is particularly strongly discouraged in females, and girls are taught to be submissive and meek lest the boys all reject them. It figures that the girls will have to find sneakier or more passive-aggressive ways to express their aggression.

ever seen that movie "Mean Girls"? I was watching that thinking that it was mild compared to what really goes on here.

This is true. But why would you want a photo record of the fact that you were stupid enough to drop $150 on a pair of shoes you didn't want to wear?

Personally, I wouldn't spend that much on a pair of shoes, period. But I do tend to take my shoes off at dances and the like - mostly because I like being barefoot and I feel ok with doing so inside. I'm one of those people who tends to take her shoes off the minute I get in the door at home - as well as at any friend's house. I've even been known, after hours, to be barefoot around the office.

nobody liked the Crass song I posted :(



Fine, I'll just sit over here and count my toes.

are you painting your nails?

I'm actually really easy to shop for, if the man is not caught up in those games we're talking about. Any little token that says he was thinking about me will do the trick, even if the object itself is not something I like. I'm a real chocolates and flowers girl. A couple of fresh daisies or a box of just four half-way decent truffles, and I'm smiling for the rest of the day. Hell, a guy could hand me a packet of Twizzlers and say "I thought of you," and I'd be pleased. On rare occasions, a guy has known me well enough to surprise me with something I really liked -- like the time I got a very good book of Native American myths for my birthday.

But what I don't like is guys who fall into that game of, essentially, buying a woman's favor with expensive gifts and then get angry with me if I'm not impressed by how much money they are spending even though I didn't ask them to.

hubby tends to bring me things at random anyway, like yesterday he brought me a light up Yo-Yo :)

Personally, I wouldn't spend that much on a pair of shoes, period.

I would, if you stuck enough lazers on the things.


But I do tend to take my shoes off at dances and the like - mostly because I like being barefoot and I feel ok with doing so inside.

Having worked at a club before, and having mopped up the dance area at the end of the night, I don't think I can ever remove my shoes on a public dance floor again.


I'm one of those people who tends to take her shoes off the minute I get in the door at home - as well as at any friend's house. I've even been known, after hours, to be barefoot around the office.
I'm the same way about that. My father insists that only barbarians walk around barefoot, so you can imagine how much he loves dealing with me, my brother, and my mom all running around as barefoot barbarians. :D

No,...

dammit I lost my place - 1...

now-smell you fingers

are you painting your nails?

No,...

dammit I lost my place - 1...

I'm actually really easy to shop for, if the man is not caught up in those games we're talking about. Any little token that says he was thinking about me will do the trick, even if the object itself is not something I like. I'm a real chocolates and flowers girl. A couple of fresh daisies or a box of just four half-way decent truffles, and I'm smiling for the rest of the day. Hell, a guy could hand me a packet of Twizzlers and say "I thought of you," and I'd be pleased. On rare occasions, a guy has known me well enough to surprise me with something I really liked -- like the time I got a very good book of Native American myths for my birthday.

Totally off-topic, but this one has been bugging me for a while - did the book have any myths about whispering a wish to a butterfly and then letting it go?


I've always thought of myself as easy to shop for, but my husband gets too worried about it. If he asks me specifically what I want, I'll tell him - but even then he often gets all worked up about whether or not I'll like it. If it's a video game or something like that, he's really in his element. But if I say something like, "I'd really like a pair of post earrings that I could wear all the time," he's too terrified to go shopping. He starts worrying about how much to spend and what exact style to get, even though I don't have a particular one in mind. I'm trying to cure him of it, hehe.

Well, I like my heels. Although if I could choose something, I would walk in socks all the time.

I don't find heels uncomfortable when walking, but, yes, dancing with them requires mastery.

I've never understood this. I also didn't understand why EVERY SINGLE GIRL at my prom took her shoes off within 5 minutes of arriving.

What is the point of shoes you can't or won't wear?
See my big long post (page 7, I think) on fashion history, which explains why people spend money on clothes that don't work.

As for office women carrying sneakers to wear in the street, I actually know why, when and where that started.

It was in NYC during a major transit workers strike that shut down the entire NY subway system for several months, nearly half a year, back in the late 1970s. In order to get to work, people pretty much just walked. Every day, twice a day, the streets and bridges were full of millions of walking commuters. Since most women found they simply could not walk more than 5 miles in high-heeled shoes, they opted for sneakers. Other women, who were runners (that being in fashion at the time), wore their running shoes and jogged to work for the exercise. Men did the same thing, wearing sneakers/running shoes with their business suits. This image in the national media was so prevalent and striking at the time that it caught on as a fashion.

After the strike was over, men went back to their dress shoes, but women found the comfort of sneakers preferable to the discomfort of heels and continued to wear flat shoes for walking. I notice that a few men also still do it - wear more comfortable shoes for walking to and from work.

now-smell you fingers

*sniff*
mmmm, they're nice, see?

*sticks a finger under your nose*

nobody liked the Crass song I posted :(



Fine, I'll just sit over here and count my toes.

i thought it was good, i even looked it up to see if it was the song that went with the tune in my head. but then i got distracted and never found out.

Yeah, I wish it was as simple as "males are straightforward," but it's not. My blunt nature tends to baffle my male friends until they get used to me.
Same here. :)

Males, I would hazard to guess, are perhaps more straightforward once IN the relationship.

But then again, some of the time, the game's half the fun.
Nope. If you were betting just on the men I've dated, you'd lose. Such gender generalizations just don't work.

hubby tends to bring me things at random anyway, like yesterday he brought me a light up Yo-Yo :)
Cool! You're a lucky woman. :D

I've always thought of myself as easy to shop for, but my husband gets too worried about it. If he asks me specifically what I want, I'll tell him - but even then he often gets all worked up about whether or not I'll like it. If it's a video game or something like that, he's really in his element. But if I say something like, "I'd really like a pair of post earrings that I could wear all the time," he's too terrified to go shopping. He starts worrying about how much to spend and what exact style to get, even though I don't have a particular one in mind. I'm trying to cure him of it, hehe.

Good luck, teaching us stuff like that is like trying to teach a velociraptor table manners.

I've always hated gift shopping. My wife isn't nearly as straightforward as she likes to think. She'll always say that she's told me what she'd like, but the reality is she's told me maybe once...over a month ago...while I was asleep.

I've always thought of myself as easy to shop for, but my husband gets too worried about it. If he asks me specifically what I want, I'll tell him - but even then he often gets all worked up about whether or not I'll like it. If it's a video game or something like that, he's really in his element. But if I say something like, "I'd really like a pair of post earrings that I could wear all the time," he's too terrified to go shopping. He starts worrying about how much to spend and what exact style to get, even though I don't have a particular one in mind. I'm trying to cure him of it, hehe.
Saying things like that isn't going to help.

She'll always say that she's told me what she'd like, but the reality is she's told me maybe once...over a month ago...while I was asleep.
And quite possibly in Russian (I would bet)

I've always thought of myself as easy to shop for, but my husband gets too worried about it. If he asks me specifically what I want, I'll tell him - but even then he often gets all worked up about whether or not I'll like it. If it's a video game or something like that, he's really in his element. But if I say something like, "I'd really like a pair of post earrings that I could wear all the time," he's too terrified to go shopping. He starts worrying about how much to spend and what exact style to get, even though I don't have a particular one in mind. I'm trying to cure him of it, hehe.
I'm ridiculously easy to shop for, for my boyfriend. All he has to do is look at what he's buying for me and ask himself, "Would I want to receive this gift?" And yes, this includes gifts of clothing and jewelry. If something is "too girly" for him to want to wear it, odds are good that I won't want to wear it either.

The only exceptions are that I like B-horror movies and he doesn't, and he likes Wolverine while I prefer Batman.

He's really come to understand my frustration with shoe shopping lately, too. We both needed new shoes, so we went out to the mall together, and we found countless pairs of shoes that we both liked...but none of them were ever made in women's shoes, and not a single pair was available in my size.

Even The Walking Store, which bills itself as being all about podiatrist-approved footwear, did not stock ONE SINGLE PAIR of women's shoes that were lace-up dress-casual flat sole shoes. They all were either strappy open-toe numbers or loafers (no laces) or pastel-colored sneakers. Meanwhile, the men's section had plenty of choices for somebody who wanted simple, brown or black, lace-bearing, flat-soled, comfortable work shoes.

Bums me out, I tell you what.

i thought it was good, i even looked it up to see if it was the song that went with the tune in my head. but then i got distracted and never found out.


ok shwew, I'm not on universal ignore then.

it's a pretty catchy song and although she is talking smack about the whole situation and I agree, at the same time it's kind of a turn on.

Cool! You're a lucky woman. :D

I was so happy to have it too, it's nice to have someone bring you something silly after you have had a hard day, I played with it for hours, and showed it to all my friends that I saw yesterday and all of them gave me the same look :confused:

it's a toy, what's so hard to understand?!

a few weeks ago he brought me a bean bag.....it was so fun.

sometimes I don't think I will ever understand anyone else.

Personally, I wouldn't spend that much on a pair of shoes, period. But I do tend to take my shoes off at dances and the like - mostly because I like being barefoot and I feel ok with doing so inside. I'm one of those people who tends to take her shoes off the minute I get in the door at home - as well as at any friend's house. I've even been known, after hours, to be barefoot around the office.
I love you! Marry me and start a colony for people who want to only be in bare feet! :D (Yeah I'm a girl, so what).

Good luck, teaching us stuff like that is like trying to teach a velociraptor table manners.

I've always hated gift shopping. My wife isn't nearly as straightforward as she likes to think. She'll always say that she's told me what she'd like, but the reality is she's told me maybe once...over a month ago...while I was asleep.
If you haven't been to Thingsmygirlfriendandihavearguedabout.com, you should go.

Here's a sample from the fellow who writes it (his name is Mil, his girlfriend is Margret):

"Presents. Before every birthday, Christmas or whatever I'll say, 'What do you want?' And Margret will say, 'Surprise me.' And I'll reply, 'Noooooo, just tell me what you want. If I guess it'll be the wrong thing, it's always the wrong thing.' And then she'll come out with that, 'No, it won't. It'll be what you chose, and a surprise, that's what's important,' nonsense. And I'll say, 'Sweetest, you say that now, but come Christmas morning it'll be, "What the hell were you thinking?" again, won't it?' And she replies, 'No. It. Won't.' And I say, 'Yes, it will.' And she says, 'Don't patronise me.' And the neighbours freeze in their seats for a moment next door, before jumping up and removing anything they have on the shelves on the adjoining wall. And, in the end, Margret gets her way. And I hunt around in utter desperation for two months for something before finally finding the one item that will work at 7.30pm on Christmas Eve for a cost of twenty-three-and-a-half thousands pounds. And on Christmas morning it's, 'What the hell were you thinking?' But anyway.

Back at the previous item, it's just after Christmas and Margret's going on about her present, which was, you'll recall, a necklace of a single diamond suspended on a delicate chain of white gold and sapphires. And this is what I hear come out of her mouth - 'Why didn't you get me a wormery, I dropped enough hints?' You what?"

Also:

"Last Friday was Margret's birthday. I bought her this oriental, geisha-style pyjama thing (Margret - 'Hey! I could have a go at that massage they do; I could jump on your back.' Me - 'Walk, they walk on your back.' Close call there.) while I was down in London. She liked it. Simple. Clearly, I've been a fool and all I needed to do to get Margret a present she likes was make sure I asked nearly every single woman who works for The Guardian newspaper what the hell I should buy. It wasn't her favourite birthday present, though, not by a long way. There were almost tears of delight when her best friend turned up at the birthday party and surprised her with two bags full of horse manure. I mean, it seems so obvious now, of course."

I'm ridiculously easy to shop for, for my boyfriend. All he has to do is look at what he's buying for me and ask himself, "Would I want to receive this gift?" And yes, this includes gifts of clothing and jewelry. If something is "too girly" for him to want to wear it, odds are good that I won't want to wear it either.

The only exceptions are that I like B-horror movies and he doesn't, and he likes Wolverine while I prefer Batman.

He's really come to understand my frustration with shoe shopping lately, too. We both needed new shoes, so we went out to the mall together, and we found countless pairs of shoes that we both liked...but none of them were ever made in women's shoes, and not a single pair was available in my size.

Even The Walking Store, which bills itself as being all about podiatrist-approved footwear, did not stock ONE SINGLE PAIR of women's shoes that were lace-up dress-casual flat sole shoes. They all were either strappy open-toe numbers or loafers (no laces) or pastel-colored sneakers. Meanwhile, the men's section had plenty of choices for somebody who wanted simple, brown or black, lace-bearing, flat-soled, comfortable work shoes.

Bums me out, I tell you what.

My tennis shoes are men's shoes, I doubt anyone notices because I put bright sparkled shoe laces in them. I don't like women's tennis shoes, they are all white, and pink and stupid looking.

My man however has no shoe choice, he wears a size 16 and apparently there isn't a shoe store in town that stocks more than one pair of those, and it's always an ugly pair.

Totally off-topic, but this one has been bugging me for a while - did the book have any myths about whispering a wish to a butterfly and then letting it go?
No. :(

*reminded of why I broke up with that guy ;)*


I've always thought of myself as easy to shop for, but my husband gets too worried about it. If he asks me specifically what I want, I'll tell him - but even then he often gets all worked up about whether or not I'll like it. If it's a video game or something like that, he's really in his element. But if I say something like, "I'd really like a pair of post earrings that I could wear all the time," he's too terrified to go shopping. He starts worrying about how much to spend and what exact style to get, even though I don't have a particular one in mind. I'm trying to cure him of it, hehe.
I am so obsessively fussy about everything I wear or put on my skin or anything like that, that I don't even like to let my mother shop for me. That's why I absolve all boyfriends of ever having to buy jewelry, perfume or clothes for me unless they really, really, really want to and they really, really, really won't mind if I don't wear it. I also won't ever make a man come shopping with me, even if he is paying for everything, because I hate to shop and am not good company while doing it.

That said, I knew a guy way back in high school (not a boyfriend) who had this weird knack for sizing up clothes that would look good on me. He was always giving me vintage dresses -- from the 1760s, 1750s, even one from about 1910-something -- that not only were beautiful but fit me like they'd been tailored for me. Friends said they'd just be walking by a thrift store and he'd spot a dress, hold it up and say, "I think this would fit Muravyets," and buy it. He was, like, some kind of freak of nature or something. Never met anyone else, male or female, who could do that.

"Presents. Before every birthday, Christmas or whatever I'll say, 'What do you want?' And Margret will say, 'Surprise me.' And I'll reply, 'Noooooo, just tell me what you want. If I guess it'll be the wrong thing, it's always the wrong thing.' And then she'll come out with that, 'No, it won't. It'll be what you chose, and a surprise, that's what's important,' nonsense. And I'll say, 'Sweetest, you say that now, but come Christmas morning it'll be, "What the hell were you thinking?" again, won't it?' And she replies, 'No. It. Won't.' And I say, 'Yes, it will.' And she says, 'Don't patronise me.' And the neighbours freeze in their seats for a moment next door, before jumping up and removing anything they have on the shelves on the adjoining wall. And, in the end, Margret gets her way. And I hunt around in utter desperation for two months for something before finally finding the one item that will work at 7.30pm on Christmas Eve for a cost of twenty-three-and-a-half thousands pounds. And on Christmas morning it's, 'What the hell were you thinking?' But anyway.

Back at the previous item, it's just after Christmas and Margret's going on about her present, which was, you'll recall, a necklace of a single diamond suspended on a delicate chain of white gold and sapphires. And this is what I hear come out of her mouth - 'Why didn't you get me a wormery, I dropped enough hints?' You what?"

DINGDINGDING!

Take note, ladies.

Heck, last Christmas I'd just given up. I bought stuff I thought I would like (that wasn't a video game or such, yes, I'm a geek). Ended up with the first season of House, Denis Leary stand-up DVD, and then, of course, as I'm wandering thru a dept store I come across one of those circle diamond pendants and a subconscious whisper comes back to me "Buy it..."

I hate Christmas shopping...ended up getting all damn three things.

For any guys who claim that high heels are sexy or make a woman more attractive, please consider the fact that you are saying you find it attractive when a woman is, effectively, hobbled and unable to run from you. You may want to reconsider advertising that to others.

My thoughts exactly, and I never found them sexy, anyway.

If you haven't been to Thingsmygirlfriendandihavearguedabout.com, you should go.

Here's a sample from the fellow who writes it (his name is Mil, his girlfriend is Margret):

<snip>
That man needs to stop dating drug-addled space aliens, clearly.

If I were acquainted with that woman, and I heard her complaining about being given a diamond necklace (even a crappy one), I'd hit her in the head, steal the necklace and bang her man just to reward him for his efforts.

DINGDINGDING!

Take note, ladies.

Heck, last Christmas I'd just given up. I bought stuff I thought I would like (that wasn't a video game or such, yes, I'm a geek). Ended up with the first season of House, Denis Leary stand-up DVD, and then, of course, as I'm wandering thru a dept store I come across one of those circle diamond pendants and a subconscious whisper comes back to me "Buy it..."

I hate Christmas shopping...ended up getting all damn three things.
See my earlier post about how obsessively fussy I am. Because of that, anytime a guy asks what I want for Christmas or my birthday, I say, "Take me out for dinner," and I name a restaurant I like. Done. The dinner doesn't even have to be on the special day, just anywhere within 3 months of it will do.

High heels? Nah, don't think so...

Gifts? Meh. I bought a girl a hat cuz I thought it looked nice on her...I've never been good at gifts. I'll get you some cash and a very funny card (from the store or made myself), I have a skill for that.

Also, count me toward guys that just don't get subtlety.

That man needs to stop dating drug-addled space aliens, clearly.

If I were acquainted with that woman, and I heard her complaining about being given a diamond necklace (even a crappy one), I'd hit her in the head, steal the necklace and bang her man just to reward him for his efforts.

Err...

What did you say was the reason many of your other relationships failed?

High heels can be sexy - but damn it, it's your body and your responsibility. Just don't wear them all the time. Limit the use and you'll be fine, no?

Err...

What did you say was the reason many of your other relationships failed?

Usually it was because the men decided they didn't like a woman who didn't play stupid manipulative clinging girly games. "You don't seem to neeeeeeeed me enough." I've heard that bullshit more than once. And they were always right. It turned out I didn't need them at all.

Having worked at a club before, and having mopped up the dance area at the end of the night, I don't think I can ever remove my shoes on a public dance floor again.

Oh, I'd never do it at a club - that's one place my shoes are staying squarely on. I was thinking more along the lines of old high school dances - where drinks and such usually weren't allowed on the dance floor. Half the time, they preferred that we remove our shoes anyways, so as not to scuff up the floor.

I'm the same way about that. My father insists that only barbarians walk around barefoot, so you can imagine how much he loves dealing with me, my brother, and my mom all running around as barefoot barbarians. :D

Hehe.

High heels can be sexy - but damn it, it's your body and your responsibility. Just don't wear them all the time. Limit the use and you'll be fine, no?
Haha, listen to you. "Responsibility" - precious.

Gravlen, my darling, the kind of shoes you're thinking of are not the kind that go with being a "responsible" person. They're the kind that go with dressing up in the bedroom, and since the woman is hardly likely to be walking in those, of course there's no issue.

But I still maintain that the idea that high-heeled shoes are sexy when worn with clothes is a hold-over from the 18th century fashion (see page 7).

For as long as I can remember, I have been annoyed and mildly disgusted by popular women's shoes.

I have been irritated and disappointed by the idiotic way that so many women painstakingly select shitty, uncomfortable, dangerous footwear to go with every outfit.

I have made the obligatory references to foot-binding, and have implored female friends to think of osteoarthritis, bunions, hammer toes, and PLEASE DON'T WEAR THOSE UGLY-ASS POINTY-TOE HIGH HEEL MONSTROSITIES.



As always Bottle. I desperately try to keep up with your intellegence, but fail at an incomprehensible level. So I will either.

A) Play the devil's advocate with a 30 page list of sources immediately at hand.

B) Simply copy and paste exactly what you said, but dumber.

He's really come to understand my frustration with shoe shopping lately, too. We both needed new shoes, so we went out to the mall together, and we found countless pairs of shoes that we both liked...but none of them were ever made in women's shoes, and not a single pair was available in my size.

Even The Walking Store, which bills itself as being all about podiatrist-approved footwear, did not stock ONE SINGLE PAIR of women's shoes that were lace-up dress-casual flat sole shoes. They all were either strappy open-toe numbers or loafers (no laces) or pastel-colored sneakers. Meanwhile, the men's section had plenty of choices for somebody who wanted simple, brown or black, lace-bearing, flat-soled, comfortable work shoes.

Bums me out, I tell you what.

find out where nurses shop. they make them in more colors than white now.

Everyone should have to wear ballet boots:

http://www.mayashoes.com/Ballet_2020_BlkPat.JPEG

Usually it was because the men decided they didn't like a woman who didn't play stupid manipulative clinging girly games. "You don't seem to neeeeeeeed me enough." I've heard that bullshit more than once. And they were always right. It turned out I didn't need them at all.

Ah...yeah...I'm sure. >_>

Good luck, teaching us stuff like that is like trying to teach a velociraptor table manners.

I've always hated gift shopping. My wife isn't nearly as straightforward as she likes to think. She'll always say that she's told me what she'd like, but the reality is she's told me maybe once...over a month ago...while I was asleep.

I'm not trying to teach him about fashion or anything like that - I don't even know all of that. I'm trying to make it clear to him that it really doesn't matter. If I ask for something like "a pair of post earrings," I'm not looking for him to spend a lot of money or get anything extravagant. If it looks to him like something I could wear with just about anything and he likes it, there's a 99.9999% chance that it's what I want.


Saying things like that isn't going to help.

Things like what? "Cure him" of it? That was pretty obviously meant to be a joke. My point is that gift-giving shouldn't be stressful - and there's no reason for him to be stressed about it. That's the point I'm trying to convey to him.


I love you! Marry me and start a colony for people who want to only be in bare feet! (Yeah I'm a girl, so what).

Hehe. I'll ask my husband if we want to marry another girl. =)

Hehe. I'll ask my husband if we want to marry another girl. =)

That's hot *nods*

Everyone should have to wear ballet boots:

http://www.mayashoes.com/Ballet_2020_BlkPat.JPEG

Oh dear God. I don't think I could stand up in those, much less walk in them.

I'm not even sure sitting in those, with no pressure on my feet, would be ok.

Things like what? "Cure him" of it? That was pretty obviously meant to be a joke. My point is that gift-giving shouldn't be stressful - and there's no reason for him to be stressed about it. That's the point I'm trying to convey to him.

No, the "He starts worrying about how much to spend and what exact style to get, even though I don't have a particular one in mind." That sounds like you have one in mind, deep down, but you are pretending you don't and then you get the wrong ones, and you are confusingly disappointed in him for a few weeks and explained years later.

Oh dear God. I don't think I could stand up in those, much less walk in them.

I'm not even sure sitting in those, with no pressure on my feet, would be ok.



Yeah I don't believe they are made to be stood in.

That's hot *nods*

agreed!

Hehe. I'll ask my husband if we want to marry another girl. =)

Polygamy, yeeh!

Ah...yeah...I'm sure. >_>

What the hell is that supposed to mean? *gets riding crop from closet*

And by the way, that "you don't need me enough" line I actually have heard from at least 4 different guys, in those words.

What the hell is that supposed to mean? *gets riding crop from closet*

That is also sexual.

Points for whoever gets that...

See my earlier post about how obsessively fussy I am. Because of that, anytime a guy asks what I want for Christmas or my birthday, I say, "Take me out for dinner," and I name a restaurant I like. Done. The dinner doesn't even have to be on the special day, just anywhere within 3 months of it will do.

Well the solution is clear then

Marry me.:D

I'm not trying to teach him about fashion or anything like that - I don't even know all of that. I'm trying to make it clear to him that it really doesn't matter. If I ask for something like "a pair of post earrings," I'm not looking for him to spend a lot of money or get anything extravagant. If it looks to him like something I could wear with just about anything and he likes it, there's a 99.9999% chance that it's what I want.

Yeah, I got that. Either way, you're not going to stop him from stressing like that. We've been taught now that we have to please our wives and that women are subtle and prone to double-talk. Saying "It doesn't really matter" in regards to gift shopping is like sending the guy into a tiger pit with a butter knife: in the end it ain't gonna be pretty.

What the hell is that supposed to mean? *gets riding crop from closet*

It's supposed to mean something, but it's a new personal phrase I'm trying to coin and I'm not sure I've quite got the right words...

And by the way, that "you don't need me enough" line I actually have heard from at least 4 different guys, in those words.

Hmm. Perhaps a bit more practice in how you pick 'em is required, eh? :)

That is also sexual.

Points for whoever gets that...
Well, you ruined it by giving it away, silly.

It's supposed to mean something, but it's a new personal phrase I'm trying to coin and I'm not sure I've quite got the right words...
Keep working on it.


Hmm. Perhaps a bit more practice in how you pick 'em is required, eh? :)
You can't always tell an apple is rotten until you pick it up and look at it. Likewise, you can't always tell in what way a man is going to be a big boring pain until you've dated him a couple of weeks.

That is also sexual.

Points for whoever gets that...

Meh. Quagmire. Lois in prison bit, I believe?

Keep working on it.
I shall.

You can't always tell an apple is rotten until you pick it up and look at it. Likewise, you can't always tell in what way a man is going to be a big boring pain until you've dated him a couple of weeks.

Wait, you're counting 'a couple weeks of dating'? Pff. That hardly counts as a relationship. Would you even know a guy's middle name by that point?

Well the solution is clear then

Marry me.:D
Sure, why not? I've got 15 minutes to spare this weekend. ;)

The funny part, though, is my approach actually pisses a lot of people off, if they have the mindset that gift-giving is very important. Even my mother hates it:

Mom: What do you want for Christmas this year?

Me: Dinner at Forest Cafe.

Mom: What else?

Me: Nothing.

Mom: Oh, come on! Tell me what you want!

Me: No, seriously, I don't want anything else.

Mom: Now, look...

*Cue annual argument*

I shall.



Wait, you're counting 'a couple weeks of dating'? Pff. That hardly counts as a relationship. Would you even know a guy's middle name by that point?
Feh, I barely know his last name by that point, but I do know that it's too early for him to be complaining that I don't act like I need him enough.

Haha, listen to you. "Responsibility" - precious.

Gravlen, my darling, the kind of shoes you're thinking of are not the kind that go with being a "responsible" person. They're the kind that go with dressing up in the bedroom, and since the woman is hardly likely to be walking in those, of course there's no issue.
:eek: :D :fluffle: :fluffle:


...I was, in part, also responding to this:

For any guys who claim that high heels are sexy or make a woman more attractive, please consider the fact that you are saying you find it attractive when a woman is, effectively, hobbled and unable to run from you. You may want to reconsider advertising that to others. ;)
The guy may find it sexy - but it's still the womans responsibility to decide if she wants to wear those shoes or not.

Hell, if a guy proclaims that he's into bondage or likes tying people up, or spanking women, or what have you, I won't hold it against the guy. It's still up to the woman to decide if she wishes to partake in those things - and the same goes for high heels ;)

I've always thought heels looked hot. If I were a woman I would definitely wear them. I like it when fantasy (http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/962/dungeon06ushadowmatriarzr3.jpg) meets (http://www.the-battlefield.com/screens/mm5/Blood_Fury.jpg) extreme fashion (http://www.the-battlefield.com/screens/mm5/Shadow_Witch.jpg). :)

*Cue annual argument*

Ever tried asking for cash?

That man needs to stop dating drug-addled space aliens, clearly.

From Mil:

"What Margret and I have, essentially, is a Mexican stand-off with love instead of guns. OK, yes, sometimes there are guns too. The important thing is the mindset, though. Sure, people can argue about important issues, that's fine, good luck to them I say. But where, I ask you, are those people when you take away the meaningful sources of disagreement? Lost. Utterly lost. Let me illustrate the common mistakes amateurs might make using something that happened the other week. You will need:
Margret.
Me.
A roast chicken.
We're having tea and on the table are the plates, a selection of vegetables and a roast chicken in an incredibly hot metal baking tray. Getting this chicken to the table (see - if you're a Mailing Lister and can - 'cloth taking-things-from-the-oven-thing', in the Thing-o-Matic archive) has been an heroic race that ended only fractions of a second short of a major skin graft. Due to this haste it is, however, not sitting precisely centrally on the coaster. Some kind of weird, hippie, neo-Buddhist couple might have failed even at this point and simply got on with eating the meal. Fortunately, Margret is there to become loudly agitated that radiant heat might creep past the edge of the coaster, through the table cloth, through the protective insulating sheet under the table cloth, and affect the second-hand table itself. She shouts and wails. I nudge the tray into the centre of the coaster, but, in doing so, about half a teaspoon of the gravy spills over the side onto the table cloth. Outside birds fall mute, mid-song. Inside, frozen in time, the camera swings around us sitting at the table, like in The Matrix.
'What the hell did you do that for? Quick, clean it up - quick,' insists Margret (where an amateur would have, say, shrugged).
'No,' I reply (at the moment when another amateur would have been returning from the kitchen with a cloth), 'I'm eating my tea. I'm going to sit here and eat my tea. Then I'll clean it up.'
'No, clean it up now.'
'No.'
'Yes.'
'No. I'm going to eat my tea first.'
'Clean it up now.'
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, so a couple of semi-pros might have worked this up into a shouting match. But I am not about to stoop to childish name-calling. Instead I lift up the tray and pour some more gravy onto the table.
'OK?' I say, 'Now stop it. I'll clean it up after.'
'Clean it up now.'
I tip a little more gravy onto the table.
'I'm just going to keep doing it every time you say that. I'll clean it up later.'
'Do it now.'
More gravy.
'Now.'
More gravy.
This continues until we run out of gravy.
I must make it clear that my actions here seemed perfectly rational at the time. I've mulled them over since, of course, and am relieved to find that they still hold up to examination: it's pleasing to know I can make good decisions under pressure. Anyway, we eat the meal from a table awash with gravy. I am happy to have argued my point persuasively. Margret has a smile fixed to her face due to the belief (incorrect, yes, but it's only her enjoyment that matters) that I've clearly done something hugely stupid that she can bring up later in any number of arguments - possibly years from now. Everyone wins. We eat, united in contentment. I clean up the table."


Maybe I'm crazy, but I can totally see why he stays in that relationship. :D

The funny part, though, is my approach actually pisses a lot of people off, if they have the mindset that gift-giving is very important. Even my mother hates it:

Mom: What do you want for Christmas this year?

Me: Dinner at Forest Cafe.

Mom: What else?

Me: Nothing.

Mom: Oh, come on! Tell me what you want!

Me: No, seriously, I don't want anything else.

Mom: Now, look...

*Cue annual argument*
I have the same problem with my parents.

Mom: What do you want for your birthday?

Me: A microwave oven.

Mom: No you don't.

Me: ...

[Later]

Dad: So Mom tells me you want hang-gliding lessons for your birthday.

Me: ?!?

Dad: Yeah, I figured she was full of it. Don't worry, we'll get you the lawn chairs instead.

Me: I live in an apartment, Dad.

Dad: Be prepared. Always be prepared.

Me: ...

-snip argument story-

I've done something like that before, didn't go so well. Bad enough, in fact, that I can't rightly remember what I did...all I see is this waffle iron flying at my head...

Sure, why not? I've got 15 minutes to spare this weekend.


Done and done. Meet me at the Mirage, Room 614 on Saturday.;)

No, the "He starts worrying about how much to spend and what exact style to get, even though I don't have a particular one in mind." That sounds like you have one in mind, deep down, but you are pretending you don't and then you get the wrong ones, and you are confusingly disappointed in him for a few weeks and explained years later.

Only if you are assuming a load of bullshit. If I say, "I don't have a particular one in mind," that means, "I don't have a particular one in mind." If I had a particular one in mind, I'd say, "I want a pair of post earrings that are this size, made out of this metal, with this stone," or, even more simply, I'd point to it in a catalog or at the store.

But the problem with my husband really isn't that he thinks I have a specific pair in mind (in this example). It's just that he's afraid he'll pick out a pair I don't like, or spend too little or too much, or any number of other things.


Wait, you're counting 'a couple weeks of dating'? Pff. That hardly counts as a relationship. Would you even know a guy's middle name by that point?

I would. Of course, I've never done the casual dating scene. I've always been friends with a guy before dating him. As such, I most likely knew his birthday, middle name, etc. even before we started dating.

See my earlier post about how obsessively fussy I am. Because of that, anytime a guy asks what I want for Christmas or my birthday, I say, "Take me out for dinner," and I name a restaurant I like. Done. The dinner doesn't even have to be on the special day, just anywhere within 3 months of it will do.
At least some one gets it. I usually have lunch with one or other of my female friends once a week. We both fail to realize lunch doesn't materialize in thin air at the last second and then must start a 3 minute discussion where I say "Where do you want to go?" and they respond "It doesn't matter." then asks the same of me where I reply "I don't care." This happens 3 more times until either I suggest a place that they dismiss kindly or until they finally just name a place. It all ends with me being criminally indecisive.

snip
You know, I get similar from my mother.

Usually it will just be "mom, I don't really want anything."

"but it's your birthday, what do you want?"

"nothing, really I'm fine."

"but you must want something"

"if I do, I'll go buy it"

at which point she usually offers me cash. It ends in a quite amusing mother/son moment when I get exasperated and say, in a very whiny voice "mom, I don't you to buy me anything, I'm a corporate attorney!"

-snip-

Well in my experience, every time I get older, the amount and number of gifts I get progressively decrease; and the amount and number of gifts I have to give increases.

Not for my mother, though. Every time we go to a shopping mall with those electronics stores, she would ask me if I want a new phone. Kinda annoys me sometimes, 'cause I do not want a new phone...

Well in my experience, every time I get older, the amount and number of gifts I get progressively decrease; and the amount and number of gifts I have to give increases.

Not for my mother, though. Every time we go to a shopping mall with those electronics stores, she would ask me if I want a new phone. Kinda annoys me sometimes, 'cause I do not want a new phone...
Want to send me one?

Gift-of-God was the one who brought up the idea that lesbians and feminists are the source of all that is good advice for young women.

Yep. I entirley believe that only lesbian and feminists can properly educate a young girl. After the male donated his sperm to our family, we promptly got rid of him and now live perfect lives in the Lesbian Utopia.:rolleyes:

You know, one of the reasons people suspect you are Deep Kimchi/Eve Online, etc. is because he would also make these stupid assumptions that only make sense if you believe that everyone only lives in a completely black and white world.

So, because you are incapable of understanding shades of grey, I will spell it out for you:

I am glad that my daughters live in a community that has lots of feminists and queer women because these women often provide advice that helps them understand and grow without being saddled with the crap that most girls grow up with. They are not the only people who help my daughters in this way. The father of my children (admittedly a feminist, but according to this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12627723&postcount=83), so are you, as you believe your daughters should have the same opportunities as men) also provides a caring and nurturing environment without being a queer woman. As do their somewhat traditional grandparents.

It just so happened that the woman who helped my daughters understand that high heels are bad for your health is also a feminist. And while I htink that is a good thing, I do not assume that feminists are the only people who can provide such information for my children.

Not to mention that feminists and queer women actively try to minimise the competition that Smunkee was discussing upthread.

Want to send me one?

No. :) 'Cause I'm bargaining her to give me a laptop instead.

I've always been friends with a guy before dating him.

Ah. Of course, it shouldn't be suprising how troublesome that particular maxim has been for me, moving to a new continent n' school where that's the only way the girls will do.