NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok this is what happened... (Taken from IRC)
<Okie> see i was in the woods with my BB gun
<Okie> and i saw this bird swoop in
<Okie> so i shot at it
<Okie> and i crushed its left wing
<Okie> so it started hoppng around cuz it couldnt fly
<Okie> and you cant leave a bird like that to die
<Okie> so i chased it to kill it so it wouldnt suffer and die slowly
<Okie> but i shot it once and it was stil alive so i shot it three more times
<Okie> but it was still alive and it squeaked and looked to be in pain
<Okie> so i pumped my gun all 10 times and shot it in the head and got bird blood all over me :(
So... What is wrong with me?

Ok this is what happened... (Taken from IRC)
<Okie> see i was in the woods with my BB gun
<Okie> and i saw this bird swoop in
<Okie> so i shot at it
<Okie> and i crushed its left wing
<Okie> so it started hoppng around cuz it couldnt fly
<Okie> and you cant leave a bird like that to die
<Okie> so i chased it to kill it so it wouldnt suffer and die slowly
<Okie> but i shot it once and it was stil alive so i shot it three more times
<Okie> but it was still alive and it squeaked and looked to be in pain
<Okie> so i pumped my gun all 10 times and shot it in the head and got bird blood all over me :(
So... What is wrong with me?

The part of your human nature that wants to hurt things and the part that doesn't want things to suffer clashed in an internal battle.

:eek:

You shot a bird with a bb gun...who cares?

What the fuck?

You shot a bird with a bb gun...who cares?
But it was more than that:p It was an emotional BATTLE:eek:

The part of your human nature that wants to hurt things and the part that doesn't want things to suffer clashed in an internal battle.
I feel it RIPPING

You pansy.

You have horrible, horrible aim. Can't even kill something in ONE shot.

You pansy.

You have horrible, horrible aim. Can't even kill something in ONE shot.
Bah, my stealthy (although somewhat overgrown) cat can kill them in a single leap. Perhaps he ought to take some lessons from it. :D

You pansy.

You have horrible, horrible aim. Can't even kill something in ONE shot.
The first shot was from like 50 feet and its a .177 caliber BB.:p And its a BB:D

The only way to save yourself from eternal NS hellfire is to take that bird home and eat it.

So... What is wrong with me?
What's wrong is that you're a murderous, bored little thug who, for want of any reason whatsoever, destroyed an infinitely more beautiful, delicate and graceful creature who at least understood his purpose in life, which is more than you'll ever be able to say.

Feel like shit yet? Well, good. And while I'm at it,

*ignore*

I don't chat with greasy little bird-killing punks.

What's wrong is that you're a murderous, bored little thug who, for want of any reason whatsoever, destroyed an infinitely more beautiful, delicate and graceful creature who at least understood his purpose in life, which is more than you'll ever be able to say.

Feel like shit yet? Well, good. And while I'm at it,

*ignore*

I don't chat with greasy little bird-killing punks.
Its hunting city girl!

You should've used a rifle.

The only way to save yourself from eternal NS hellfire is to take that bird home and eat it.

Fucking rights.

Anything less would make you an absolute, disgusting little twat.

Hunting? Get a fucking grip.

What's wrong is that you're a murderous, bored little thug who, for want of any reason whatsoever, destroyed an infinitely more beautiful, delicate and graceful creature who at least understood his purpose in life, which is more than you'll ever be able to say.

Feel like shit yet? Well, good. And while I'm at it,

*ignore*

I don't chat with greasy little bird-killing punks.

Yes, ham is pork!

Yes, ham is pork!
I've tried that one before - they either do not care because a) they're vegetarians or b) they do not care that they're being inconsistent.

That... and then there is the fact that ham is actually consumed. :p

The only way to save yourself from eternal NS hellfire is to take that bird home and eat it.
But I buried it:(



Ok so it wasnt HUNTING it was...shooting at little animals

You should've used a rifle.
I'm not old enough to buy one:(

For what conceivable purpose? :confused:
Sex probably.

Ok so it wasnt HUNTING it was...shooting at little animals
For what conceivable purpose? :confused:

Ok this is what happened... (Taken from IRC)
<Okie> see i was in the woods with my BB gun
<Okie> and i saw this bird swoop in
<Okie> so i shot at it

You disgust me.

Geez, first couple of comments to this wern't bad. But then people just got MEAN.

Atleast you took the responsibility to put it out of its misery.

I remember when I did the same thing with a bb pistol.

XD Now i chase squirels w/ a high-power airsoft gun. Yeah, I'm kindof a dick for chasing the lil buggers around, but I certainly have no intention of killing them and i only aim for the torso XD

You disgust me.

But Fass, in Oklahoma they don't have much food aside from grain. So they resort to devouring old people and shooting and eating birds.

But I buried it:(



Ok so it wasnt HUNTING it was...shooting at little animals


OK then I might accept you pumping the gun up 5 times and shooting yourself in the eye.

Geez, first couple of comments to this wern't bad. But then people just got MEAN.

Actually the first comment was

What the fuck.


Atleast you took the responsibility to put it out of its misery.

I remember when I did the same thing with a bb pistol.

XD Now i chase squirels w/ a high-power airsoft gun. Yeah, I'm kindof a dick for chasing the lil buggers around, but I certainly have no intention of killing them and i only aim for the torso XD
And they call me crazy:rolleyes:

I did that once at my parents' house.

I dropped the bird from a rooftop with my BB-gun, breaking its wing. Then it ran away, and I chased it. It crawled into a bridge drum and stopped inside, probably for being too weak to continue. The pipe was too thin for me to get into, and it was so dark that I could only barely see the white parts of its feathers. I fired about a dozen rounds into it, until it stopped moving.

I didn't do it completely without justification, though. Magpies are somewhat of a pest there, and my parents have told me to shoot them on sight.

But Fass, in Oklahoma they don't have much food aside from grain. So they resort to devouring old people and shooting and eating birds.
How many times people!
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OK then I might accept you pumping the gun up 5 times and shooting yourself in the eye.
Umm no? Thats 375fps!

But Fass, in Oklahoma

Oklahoma? I should have known... :rolleyes:

Edit: South Carolina - same shit.

You disgust me.
Why? Youve never killed an animal before?

You should've used a rifle.
To hunt a bird? Maybe if it were an ostrich, or something, but for what he was doing a shotgun would be much better.
As to whether he should be doing it in the first place? Eh, I make no judgments. If you had fun, congratulations, but stop whining about it.
But Fass, in Oklahoma they don't have much food aside from grain. So they resort to devouring old people and shooting and eating birds.
I think he was refering to Okie's posting a chatlog on a web forum.

How many times people!
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Ah, hell, it's all in the South. Since I'm in [Insert State Here] I could say I'm from Mississippi.

Oh noes. Teh poor un-sentient corvid. I can't really see the point in hunting, but crows are hardly endangered, so I can't really be arsed to care. It's not like the damn thing was a person.

Oklahoma? I should have known... :rolleyes:

Edit: South Carolina - same shit.
Hey if it happend my way we would be our own country.

Oklahoma? I should have known... :rolleyes:

Edit: South Carolina - same shit.
:rolleyes: How ignorant....It's NOT....:rolleyes:

Why?

Because what you did is unconscionable, vile and despicable.

Because what you did is unconscionable, vile and despicable.
Yep, he is definitely refering to the fact that the OP was a chatlog.

Oklahoma? I should have known... :rolleyes:

Edit: South Carolina - same shit.

Wow.... So I guess Sweden is just the same as Spain huh? Meh, Spain, Sweden, what's the different?

Yep, he is definitely refering to the fact that the OP was a chatlog.

Sous-entendu, of course.

Wow.... So I guess Sweden is just the same as Spain huh? Meh, Spain, Sweden, what's the different?

Haha, it's always so cute to see people from the US think their states countries or somehow important to differentiate, especially the southern and middle ones. Drôle, even.

Haha, it's always so cute to see people from the US think their states countries or somehow important to differentiate, especially the southern and middle ones. Drôle, even.
Its always cute to see gay Swedes.....oh wait, no it's not.

I didn't do it completely without justification, though. Magpies are somewhat of a pest there, and my parents have told me to shoot them on sight.

Then your parents are morons.

Haha, it's always so cute to see people from the US think their states countries or somehow important to differentiate, especially the southern and middle ones. Drôle, even.

Don't worry. We don't expect you to understand. :)

Whatever fits neatly into your world-view.

It's happened to nearly every kid who's got an airgun at least once.

What matters is that after the act, you felt responsibility for what you had done, and you sought to end the suffering, instead of reveling in the suffering. It shows that you have compassion, and are not an amoral sociopath.

Then your parents are morons.

So not "poor little birdies" then. :rolleyes: I live in an area where it sometimes becomes necessary to do away with a variety of wildlife. Most of all, Coyotes.

So not "poor little birdies" then. :rolleyes: I live in an area where it sometimes becomes necessary to do away with a variety of wildlife. Most of all, Coyotes.
Why trust a child with the job of a feline though (referring to the kid's parents)?

So not "poor little birdies" then. :rolleyes: I live in an area where it sometimes becomes necessary to do away with a variety of wildlife. Most of all, Coyotes.

Well then maybe you shouldn't be living there so as to do away with the necessity of your personal convenience, then eh?

Why trust a child with the job of a feline though (referring to the kid's parents)?

Oh, I see what you're saying. Why make it a kids responsibility to hunt down animals he was pointing at in storybooks barely a decade prior? I suppose I can sympathize with that. Overall though, I think the cushy lifestyles of some have led them to be out of touch with their place in the food chain. Humans are not the only animal who kills for sport.

Why trust a child with the job of a feline though (referring to the kid's parents)?

Our felines have all gotten fat and lazy, I fear our only choice is to try to unfat the kids by making them wander around in the woods with things that will "put your eye out"

Wildlife takes a backseat to people.

Yeah, fuck nature.

Then your parents are morons.

Or maybe they just prefer having their berry crops for themselves, instead of letting birds eat them.

Well then maybe you shouldn't be living there so as to do away with the necessity of your personal convenience, then eh?

Wildlife takes a backseat to people.

Or maybe they just prefer having their berry crops for themselves, instead of letting birds eat them.

Who says it's theirs? Them? You? Some piece of paper? Tell it to the magpies.

Our felines have all gotten fat and lazy
Just don't feed them for a couple of days. :) My one is on the lazy side too (or perhaps not...), but that doesn't rob him of his killer instinct.

Wildlife takes a backseat to people.

And people take a back seat to habitat.

Well then maybe you shouldn't be living there so as to do away with the necessity of your personal convenience, then eh?

Because I hold myself and my well-being in higher regard than I hold the Coyotes. It's fine if you don't, but your views will not be relocating me anytime soon.

So... What is wrong with me?
You apparently get your kicks from shooting dumb, defenseless animals with guns? And for no particular reason?

I will never understand non-essential hunting.

My cat is so up on the 'nip all of the time that I doubt she remembers how to hunt.

In fact, now that I think about it, the cat we had earlier on was a pretty aggressive hunter, and would bring half-dead animals to dear, sweet snowflake to finish off, and Snowflake never did make the killing bite.
Ugh. We had one like that. She used to bring her kittens food back from the wild. Half-live snakes, rats, lizzards, whatever she could lay her paws on. Very feral animal.

The male cat only hunts birds though - he sometimes just brings them back to me instead of eating them. Perhaps to demonstrate his utility. :p

Just don't feed them for a couple of days. :) My one is on the lazy side too (or perhaps not...), but that doesn't rob him of his killer instinct.

My cat is so up on the 'nip all of the time that I doubt she remembers how to hunt.

In fact, now that I think about it, the cat we had earlier on was a pretty aggressive hunter, and would bring half-dead animals to dear, sweet snowflake to finish off, and Snowflake never did make the killing bite.

And people take a back seat to habitat.

No, never.

Habitat can take a front seat if it's preservation is beneficial for humanity. Otherwise it's useless.

Only humanity matters.

Why trust a child with the job of a feline though (referring to the kid's parents)?

I was already over 20 at the time, and had done my military service, so I wouldn't call myself very inefficient with a gun. My parents' cats, of which they have a constantly changing amount, can kill nice small birds like swallows and such, but they're no match to bigger ones like magpies and fieldfares.

Not if it means having to live with you.
What, exactly, is your problem? Do you enjoy being such a sour bitch?

You apparently get your kicks from shooting dumb, defenseless animals with guns? And for no particular reason?

I will never understand non-essential hunting.

Parental supervision probably could have prevented the incident, but its useless to claim some psychological deficiency when humans still experience primal urges of the hunt. It is the inhibitions we hold them back with that are novel and unnatural- not the urges themselves.

It's fine if you don't, but your views will not be relocating me anytime soon.

No doubt. Do enjoy your square footage, whatever the cost.

Not if it means having to live with you.

Seconded.

Only humanity matters.

Not if it means having to live with you.

Who says it's theirs? Them? You? Some piece of paper? Tell it to the magpies.

Mostly the fact that they planted and raised them for themselves. Who says that the magpies have more right to them than my parents?

I do tell it to the magpies. With my gun.

What a load of crap.

Seconded, once more.

Dobbie, will you hump me?

Parental supervision probably could have prevented the incident, but its useless to claim some psychological deficiency when humans still experience primal urges of the hunt. It is the inhibitions we hold them back with that are novel and unnatural- no the urges themselves.

What a load of crap.

Parental supervision probably could have prevented the incident, but its useless to claim some psychological deficiency when humans still experience primal urges of the hunt. It is the inhibitions we hold them back with that are novel and unnatural- not the urges themselves.
And furthermore, it's not as if humans are the only species that do this. Tigers are said to kill for pleasure too, if I understand correctly.

What a load of crap.
Then prove it.

What, exactly, is your problem? Do you enjoy being such a sour bitch?

I'm just not as precious as you, dear.

Not if it means having to live with you.

Oh go snipe elsewhere. He's not making you hunt. Show the common decency of returning the favor.

Its always cute to see gay Swedes.....oh wait, no it's not.

Awwww...did someone fall out of love with Fass and get all bitter? Too bad you can't take back all those naked pictures you sent...

No doubt. Do enjoy your square footage, whatever the cost.

Ah, Of course. I have to deal with the occasional varmint so therefore: I frequently find myself kicking over beaver dams while spraying agent orange to clear the forest so the local power company can build a new dam.

Forgive me if my views cannot be summarized or countered by a over-dramatized statement with no depth of reasoning. I'm an environmentalist, if you can wrap your head around that. I just have a perspective that implies that humans are a part of the ecosystem, and more so, a dominant player in it.

Seconded, once more.

Dobbie, will you hump me?

For you sweets? I'll piledrive you all the way from Kristianstad to Könkämäälven and back again with the wonder of my pelvic thrust.

Oh go snipe elsewhere. He's not making you hunt. Show the common decency of returning the favor.

Ugh, you're actually calling this hunting? Don't denigrate those of us who actually DO hunt, and have respect for what we kill.

Oh go snipe elsewhere. He's not making you hunt. Show the common decency of returning the favor.

So needlessly maiming and killing small animals is "hunting", is it? I suppose next we'll hear from the gun-nuts and the NRA mouthpieces about this being "natural" or some other puerile, smug bullshit.

So needlessly maiming and killing small animals is "hunting", is it? I suppose next we'll hear from the gun-nuts and the NRA mouthpieces about this being "natural" or some other puerile, smug bullshit.

Have you considered aligning yourself with the Republican party. They've got a spot especially set aside for overbearing, absolutist, moralists just like you. Of course, their favorite non-person to protect from being needlessly harmed is a fetus, but I'm sure you can convince them to go along. After all, you seem to have the powerful, but empty, emotional response down pat.

Ugh, you're actually calling this hunting? Don't denigrate those of us who actually DO hunt, and have respect for what we kill.

I don't give a shit what you call it. You can call it fucking tapdancing if it makes you feel better. Just find something better to do than play obnoxious moralists.

I don't give a shit what you call it. You can call it fucking tapdancing if it makes you feel better. Just find something better to do than play obnoxious moralists.

Oh save it...some kid comes in bragging about how he, for no reason, killed a bird...and you want to clap him on the back and call him the great white hunter? Please.

For you sweets? I'll piledrive you all the way from Kristianstad to Könkämäälven and back again with the wonder of my pelvic thrust.

Ooh, then I'll get to see (and feel) that it isn't just my country that's long. :)

What a load of crap.

:rolleyes: We are omnivores, ours instincts follow thus. You would be foolish to suggest otherwise.

:rolleyes: We are omnivores, ours instincts follow thus. You would be foolish to suggest otherwise.

Will you eat the dead bird then?

Awwww...did someone fall out of love with Fass and get all bitter? Too bad you can't take back all those naked pictures you sent...

Hush, ignore the child.

Oh save it...some kid comes in bragging about how he, for no reason, killed a bird...and you want to clap him on the back and call him the great white hunter? Please.

Which part of "I don't give a fuck," do you not get? I don't care what he called it. If anything, he sounds to feel pretty guilty about the whole matter. What does it matter why he killed it? It's dead either way. It doesn't give a damn. It didn't give a damn while it was alive either.

As long as he's happy at the end of the day, and as long as everyone can do what they like without having some obnoxious moralist up in their face lecturing them about the absolute moral truth that said moralist just knows is more correct than the last one that was spouted, I don't give a damn if he kills a million crows.

Which part of "I don't give a fuck," do you not get?
Then fuck right off if you care so little.

You can spend the time you'll save writing a thesis about how killing a million crows is inherently amoral.

Have you considered aligning yourself with the Republican party. They've got a spot especially set aside for overbearing, absolutist, moralists just like you. Of course, their favorite non-person to protect from being needlessly harmed is a fetus, but I'm sure you can convince them to go along. After all, you seem to have the powerful, but empty, emotional response down pat.

And you have the mealy-mouthed, pseudo-populist 'folksy' angle seemingly well-covered yourself there, KSP.

I don't give a shit what you call it. You can call it fucking tapdancing if it makes you feel better. Just find something better to do than play obnoxious moralists.

Fine then - let me rephrase:

So needlessly maiming and killing small animals is "tapdancing", is it? I suppose next we'll hear from the gun-nuts and the NRA mouthpieces about this being "natural" or some other puerile, smug bullshit.

That better? That offend your sensibilities less? Well, good for you - 'cause mine certainly still are.

Will you eat the dead bird then?

I didn't shoot it. I wouldn't shoot it. If I did shoot it, It would either be because I was going to eat it, or because it threatens me or my livelihood. The coyotes in my example do, (particularly if I actually enter that Alpaca-raising venture me and me friend talked about.)

That the instinct remains is true. I didn't suggest if wasn't good to override it, only that that is a new response. Leave the kid alone. He regretted his action and at least had the courage to put the bird out of its misery.

And you have the mealy-mouthed, pseudo-populist 'folksy' angle seemingly well-covered yourself there, KSP.

What's populist about live-and-let-live? Don't take me for having any love for guns or hunting. I'd probably be more likely to shoot myself than my target.



That better? That offend your sensibilities less? Well, good for you - 'cause mine certainly still are.

And? Are you unique in that fact? My sensibilities are fairly offended by the drinking and doping habits of many NSers, but I keep it to myself. I make my choices on subjective moral questions, and the trade off I make for that is that I have to let them make theirs.

That the instinct remains is true. I didn't suggest if wasn't good to override it, only that that is a new response. Leave the kid alone. He regretted his action and at least had the courage to put the bird out of its misery.Ah here is where we differ. I don't think he regretted his action at all...I think he just wanted to brag about it and get some attention, preferably from people who would applaud his 'prowess'.

There is a fantastic chance for a life lesson here. My people have a stock response to this sort of childish action.

The proud hunter gets to consume his or her prey.

Rarely do more 'accidents' happen after that.

What's populist about live-and-let-live? Don't take me for having any love for guns or hunting. I'd probably be more likely to shoot myself than my target.





And? Are you unique in that fact? My sensibilities are fairly offended by the drinking and doping habits of many NSers, but I keep it to myself. I make my choices on subjective moral questions, and the trade off I make for that is that I have to let them make theirs.

Doping and drinking doesn't maim wildlife, or build suburban homes where coyotes live for that matter.

Doping and drinking doesn't maim wildlife, or build suburban homes where coyotes live for that matter.

No. It does something much worse. It cheats people of their full potential, and leaves them dependant on a substance that will economically and physically harm them. I find that quite troubling.

But see, the thing is, that it isn't my choice. I don't get to dictate right and wrong to them. I do it because, in return, they have the kindness not to dictate right and wrong to me. I'm fully frank when asked about my opinion, I suppose, but I don't attempt to judge them. It's none of my business.

Oh go snipe elsewhere. He's not making you hunt. Show the common decency of returning the favor.

Hell, I don't even bother with hunting.

All my food comes from the store.

Ah here is where we differ. I don't think he regretted his action at all...I think he just wanted to brag about it and get some attention, preferably from people who would applaud his 'prowess'.

There is a fantastic chance for a life lesson here. My people have a stock response to this sort of childish action.

The proud hunter gets to consume his or her prey.

Rarely do more 'accidents' happen after that.

We don't know the bird is safe for consumption. If our disagreement simply comes down to whether he is bragging or not, neither of us has any ground to stand upon but guesses.

But see, the thing is, that it isn't my choice. I don't get to dictate right and wrong to them. I do it because, in return, they have the kindness not to dictate right and wrong to me. I'm fully frank when asked about my opinion, I suppose, but I don't attempt to judge them. It's none of my business.

Ah the old, 'if it doesn't hurt anyone else it can't be wrong' argument.

Right. Wonder how the hell any sort of legislation for the prevention of cruelty towards animals ever got passed. What a horrible example of moral judgment.

Jesus, the time-warp makes following the post progression in this thread impossible.

It's happened to nearly every kid who's got an airgun at least once.

What matters is that after the act, you felt responsibility for what you had done, and you sought to end the suffering, instead of reveling in the suffering. It shows that you have compassion, and are not an amoral sociopath.

someone who has compassion doesn't go breaking the wings of birds in the first place. If you felt bad for putting this animal in pain why did you, ya know, do it in the first fucking place?

Instead of feeling bad about the bad thing you did wouldn't it be easier to just....not do it? you'll suffer far fewer moral dilemas that way.

Ah the old, 'if it doesn't hurt anyone else it can't be wrong' argument.

Right. Wonder how the hell any sort of legislation for the prevention of cruelty towards animals ever got passed. What a horrible example of moral judgment.

I do too. Then I remember that cute moo-cows and piggies tend to evoke emotions of tender compassion, and that the thought that the poor moo-cows might feel pain overwhelms the rational part of most people's brains. It's pure, moralistic populism at its worst.

It's what powers the "Right to 'life'" crowd, and I don't cut them any slack either, when they get stupid laws passed.

Doping and drinking doesn't maim wildlife, or build suburban homes where coyotes live for that matter.

I'm not suburban, I live out in the country. In Missouri out near Arcadia valley, if it means anything to you. The coyotes have their stable habitat, and plenty of woodland creatures to feast on. They just find my house pets and garbage more exotic in flavor.

No. It does something much worse. It cheats people of their full potential, and leaves them dependant on a substance that will economically and physically harm them. I find that quite troubling.

I'm quite far more troubled by the maiming, I suspect.

someone who has compassion doesn't go breaking the wings of birds in the first place.


And we're all perfect and never make mistakes.

And we're all perfect and never make mistakes.

the gun didn't accidentally go off. He didn't shoot it by mistake.

He intentionally fired on a living creature. He inflicted pain on something for no reason other than because he felt like it.

How is that acceptable?

I'm quite far more troubled by the maiming, I suspect.

If it was a person being harmed, I'd agree with you.

I'm more concerned about the people.

I'm unapologetically anthropocentric. If it aint sentient, it's a resource that should be treated with care to ensure that our children and grandchildren may have it too, but it should be treated as a resource, not a person.

Now elephants and dolphins, I believe probably deserve at least pseudo-human status.

If it was a person being harmed, I'd agree with you.

I'm more concerned about the people.

I'm unapologetically anthropocentric. If it aint sentient, it's a resource that should be treated with care to ensure that our children and grandchildren may have it too, but it should be treated as a resource, not a person.

Now elephants and dolphins, I believe probably deserve at least pseudo-human status.

yet it can still feel pain, just as much as you. That bird felt pain just as accutely as you do.

Now I'm not a vegetarian, and can accept some degree of animal testing, because that serves a PURPOSE. This...was just inflicting pain for no reason. Nothing was served. Nothing was gained.

He just caused an animal to suffer for no purpose.

the gun didn't accidentally go off. He didn't shoot it by mistake.

He intentionally fired on a living creature. He inflicted pain on something for no reason other than because he felt like it.

How is that acceptable?

He's just a kid who got caught in the moment? I'll be fine if he's forgotten the experience by tomorrow afternoon, but its good that he's learned this lesson.

XD Now i chase squirels w/ a high-power airsoft gun. Yeah, I'm kindof a dick for chasing the lil buggers around, but I certainly have no intention of killing them and i only aim for the torso XD

So, what....you don't kill them you just aim to cause them a prolonged period of pain and potentially a slow, agonising, death?

Yea, that's something to "XD" about.

And he would appear to have learned from it.

He suffered moral anguish as the result of his actions, and hopefully he has learned a lesson.

Or would you rather damn us all for our sins?

I simply question why it took that experience to teach him "torturing animals is wrong"

I likewise question that since it took him this long to reach that conclusion, whether this experience actually changed anything.

He's just a kid who got caught in the moment? I'll be fine if he's forgotten the experience by tomorrow afternoon, but its good that he's learned this lesson.

as I said, if it took this long to learn that particular lesson, I question whether anything was really learned at all.

the gun didn't accidentally go off. He didn't shoot it by mistake.

He intentionally fired on a living creature. He inflicted pain on something for no reason other than because he felt like it.

How is that acceptable?

And he would appear to have learned from it.

He suffered moral anguish as the result of his actions, and hopefully he has learned a lesson.

Or would you rather damn us all for all our sins?

If it aint sentient, it's a resource
Consumerite balderdash.

Now elephants and dolphins, I believe probably deserve at least pseudo-human status.

Then it's high time you include avian life forms along with your favourite "smart" circus animals. Birds are extraordinarily intelligent, Corvidae ranked right alongside Psittacines.

Consumerite balderdash.

Self-serving, moralist bullshit.


Then it's high time you include avian life forms along with your favourite "smart" circus animals. Birds are extraordinarily intelligent, Corvidae ranked right alongside Psittacines.

Don't care about intelligence. I care about self-awareness. Elephans and dolphins are considered to be on the verge of, if not past the cusp of self-awareness.

I don't give a shit about intelligence. After all, a robot isn't a human either.

yet it can still feel pain, just as much as you. That bird felt pain just as accutely as you do.

Now I'm not a vegetarian, and can accept some degree of animal testing, because that serves a PURPOSE. This...was just inflicting pain for no reason. Nothing was served. Nothing was gained.

He just caused an animal to suffer for no purpose.

And? I care why?

Oh right! The cute little birdy didn't feel good! Poor birdy! :rolleyes:

Consumerite balderdash.
Why?

I have to consider that murder.

as I said, if it took this long to learn that particular lesson, I question whether anything was really learned at all.

I disagree. I would think teenage boys are more likely to succumb to hunt-lust than younger children.

I simply question why it took that experience to teach him "torturing animals is wrong"

I likewise question that since it took him this long to reach that conclusion, whether this experience actually changed anything.

People learn from experience. Otherwise we wouldn't have developed the complex structures that exist today. A lot of trial-and-error has gone into building our modern society, and it's still not perfect. The blood of millions is the price we've had to pay to sort ourselves out.

That they don't automatically subscribe to your belief structure from birth does not make them bad people.

And? I care why?

Oh right! The cute little birdy didn't feel good! Poor birdy! :rolleyes:

I see. So you're a sociopath.

I see. So you're a sociopath.
I thought the term applies only to those who feel no compassion towards other humans - not animals as well.

That they don't automatically subscribe to your belief structure from birth does not make them bad people.

anyone who, at the point where he is intelligent enough to figure out how to use a computer hasn't figured out that inflicting pain for no reason is a bad thing is a bad person, or has bad parents.

I disagree. I would think teenage boys are more likely to succumb to hunt-lust than younger children.

A desire to experience something they have yet to experience.

I'm sure there's something that you've sought to experience that someone, somewhere has found morally repulsive.

I see. So you're a sociopath.

Listen. It's a bird. It's not a person. I care deeply and passionately about people.

I don't give a fuck about birds.

Don't think for a second that I enjoy seeing people suffer. Don't thing for a second that I seek to cause suffering to anyone. Hell, I can barely manage a harsh word to a friend for fear of hurting them.

A sociopath wants to see humans hurt. I don't.

I just don't care about what happens to birds. Hell, I don't even want them to hurt, I just can't be arsed to care about the suffering of a bird when there is so much human suffering.

I'm not suburban, I live out in the country. In Missouri out near Arcadia valley, if it means anything to you. The coyotes have their stable habitat, and plenty of woodland creatures to feast on. They just find my house pets and garbage more exotic in flavor.

Oh, do you live by kerosene lamps, shit in an outhouse and draw your water from an open body or well, by hand?

No?

You're suburban. Your house may be located in the country, but you've got electricity, indoor plumbing and running water. You obviously have internet access, and it's reasonable to assume you're within range of radio and television signals. You, and many, many others like you, are living subrban lives albeit in a rustic setting. I'm even willing to bet you shop at a mall.

Oh, do you live by kerosene lamps, shit in an outhouse and draw your water from an open body or well, by hand?

No?

You're suburban. Your house may be located in the country, but you've got electricity, indoor plumbing and running water. You obviously have internet access, and it's reasonable to assume you're within range of radio and television signals. You, and many, many others like you, are living subrban lives albeit in a rustic setting. I'm even willing to bet you shop at a mall.

Now you have to be poor to live in the country. Impressive.

I see. So you're a sociopath.

A sociopath because the death of a bird in South Carolina hasn't brought a tear to his eye and caused him to hurl insults and derisions at a kid? I think you and your following are a bit further out of a common line with the rest of society than him.

I thought the term applies only to those who feel no compassion towards other humans - not animals as well.

in a general sense, one sign of antisocial personality disorder is a lack of remorse for inflicting pain

A sociopath wants to see humans hurt. I don't.

That is incorrect

I just don't care about what happens to birds. Hell, I don't even want them to hurt, I just can't be arsed to care about the suffering of a bird when there is so much human suffering.

Maybe you should ask yourself why that is, and what's wrong with you when you can't be made to care about something suffering.

Why?

I thought that my response to his comment was rather self-explanatory. Living things, whatever your estimation of their relative intelligence, are not and should never be considered to be "resources". Neither are they "commodities", nor are they in actuality anyone's "property".

I think you and your following are a bit further out of a common line with the rest of society than him.

that is society's problem then, not mine.

I thought that my response to his comment was rather self-explanatory. Living things, whatever your estimation of their relative intelligence, are not and should never be considered to be "resources". Neither are they "commodities", nor are they in actuality anyone's "property".

Why?

Oh right. Your moral code, which, coincidentally, is soooo superior to mine (after all, you know everything, don't you?) says that this is the case. You have great faith in your code of ethics, too, I suppose.

Don't mind me, I'm just a sociopath who makes the poor-widdle-birdies cry. :rolleyes:

I thought that my response to his comment was rather self-explanatory. Living things, whatever your estimation of their relative intelligence, are not and should never be considered to be "resources". Neither are they "commodities", nor are they in actuality anyone's "property".

I rather disagree, but that's a debate for another time.

Oh, do you live by kerosene lamps, shit in an outhouse and draw your water from an open body or well, by hand?

No?

No...thats not really how it works. The world does not conform to your definitions. And neither, apparently, does Websters dictionary.


I'm even willing to bet you shop at a mall.

When I'm willing to drive out (appx. 2 hours) to St. Louis to see my family. Otherwise, no.

Why?

Oh right. Your moral code, which, coincidentally, is soooo superior to mine (after all, you know everything, don't you?) says that this is the case. You have great faith in your code of ethics, too, I suppose.

A moral code that says it is wrong to inflict suffering is superior to one that does not.

So yes, your moral code is inferior.

That is incorrect

Bullshit, it's incorrect in your opinion. The definition uses the term "another" or "others". That can be taken to include widdle-birdie and all of his widdle-friends, but only if you afford animals a human level of rights. I do not.

Maybe you should ask yourself why that is, and what's wrong with you when you can't be made to care about something suffering.

Maybe you should ask yourself who made you the God of right and wrong, and maybe come to understand that subjective questions have many answers, and each of them is correct. For the person who chooses them.

that is society's problem then, not mine.

I pointed that out because the definition of sociopath implies disregard to the structures of society- I was simply saying you are more out of line than him.

Now you have to be poor to live in the country. Impressive.

Who said anything about being poor? Some of my fondest memories are of doing all three of the things I wrote - living by kerosene lamp and a wood stove, in a tarpaper shack with yup - an outhouse - and drawing water by hand. With no phone, mail delivery, electricity, plumbing, television or radio (I lie. We used to be able to pick up Radio Moscow on summer nights, after we ran a wire up a tree).

I'm not poor now, and I wasn't then. I've been poor, between now and then - but maybe you should check your own bias in this instance.

A moral code that says it is wrong to inflict suffering is superior to one that does not.

So yes, your moral code is inferior.

Ah... Absolutists... When they aren't telling me to read my bible and let the poor little fetuses live, they're telling me to let the poor little birdies live.

With all due respect in mind, you are exactly the reason that I have so much distaste for partisan politics.

Who said anything about being poor? Some of my fondest memories are of doing all three of the things I wrote - living by kerosene lamp and a wood stove, in a tarpaper shack with yup - an outhouse - and drawing water by hand. With no phone, mail delivery, electricity, plumbing, television or radio (I lie. We used to be able to pick up Radio Moscow on summer nights, after we ran a wire up a tree).

I'm not poor now, and I wasn't then. I've been poor, between now and then - but maybe you should check your own bias in this instance.

Not having conveniences is poor, no matter how you slice it.

Maybe you should ask yourself why that is, and what's wrong with you when you can't be made to care about something suffering.

A bird to be exact...In South Carolina. How could we even live our lives if every death deserved our personal time and attention. I cared more for a friend of mine who recently died more than I cared for all the hurricane katrina victims put together.

Why? (After all, their suffering eclipsed mine.)

Because such is the human condition. we cannot quantify our grief to distribute it like some great emotional socialism. I cannot spare any sympathy for this bird.

Ah... Absolutists... When they aren't telling me to read my bible and let the poor little fetuses live, they're telling me to let the poor little birdies live.

Yes yes, telling people "you know it's not a good thing to inflict pain for the fuck of it" is such a horrible position to take.


With all due respect in mind, you are exactly the reason that I have so much distaste for partisan politics.

And you are exactly the reason that I have so much distate for emo teenagers, what's your point?

A moral code that says it is wrong to inflict suffering is superior to one that does not.

So yes, your moral code is inferior.
To nitpick here, that assumes one accepts the premise that inflicting suffering is wrong. :) Someone who doesn't think this is so will clearly not see this as a superior moral code.

And anyway, you'd also have to prove that the bird suffers in the way that a human does to begin with.

Yes yes, telling people "you know it's not a good thing to inflict pain for the fuck of it" is such a horrible position to take.

:rolleyes:

It's a bloody, fucking bird. If you're gonna advocate for someone, advocate for the millions of starving people in developing nations. Advocate for the opressed and mistreated citizens of China. Advocate for those trapped in the hellhole of Guantanomo Bay.

Why the fuck are you wasting your time on an un-sentient corvid?

Hypocrite. I bet that you live comfortably in a nice home with three square meals a day, at least one of which contains meat. Don't talk to me about condemning suffering when you increase the suffering of human beings worldwide just for your own comfort.

And you are exactly the reason that I have so much distate for emo teenagers, what's your point?

And, like most absolutists, you live in a fantasy world. I'm not an emo, dumbass.

Because such is the human condition. we cannot quantify our grief to distribute it like some great emotional socialism. I cannot spare any sympathy for this bird.
You know what, it's less about sympathy for the bird than it is (rightful) disgust for a person who would harm an animal for no reason. This has been heightened by the pathetic emo whining of a child who cries about 'no moral absolutes' declaring that killing 'widdle birds' is morally neutral and wanking himself into a self-induced frenzy of 'oh poor oppressed me'.

.

And anyway, you'd also have to prove that the bird suffers in the way that a human does to begin with.

What the fuck? If an animal can not suffer in exactly the same manner as a human being, it's okay to torture them?

It's a bloody, fucking bird. If you're gonna advocate for someone, advocate for the millions of starving people in developing nations. Advocate for the opressed and mistreated citizens of China. Advocate for those trapped in the hellhole of Guantanomo Bay.

And what's to say I don't?

Hypocrite. I bet that you live comfortably in a nice home with three square meals a day, at least one of which contains meat.

And the thing is, you know what I do with that meat?

I fucking eat it. The deaths of those animals servers a purpose. Animals are less than people, this is true.

Less, but not worthless. If their death serves a purpose, I'm ok with it.

If they are tortured without purpose, I am not.

And, like most absolutists, you live in a fantasy world.

I find it amusing to be lectured about me living in a "fantasy world" from someone who hasn't graduated highschool yet and lives with his parents.

I'm not an emo, dumbass.

suuuuure you're not.

What the fuck? If an animal can not suffer in exactly the same manner as a human being, it's okay to torture them?
Erm, when did I say that?

The problem being, moral systems govern interactions between humans. I question the utility of someone torturing an animal, and even their state of mind, but not so much the morality.

And no, I am not a moral relativist - just playing devil's advocate.

:rolleyes:

It's a bloody, fucking bird. If you're gonna advocate for someone, advocate for the millions of starving people in developing nations. Advocate for the opressed and mistreated citizens of China. Advocate for those trapped in the hellhole of Guantanomo Bay.
Oh I see, you're going to run away crying, 'but people are suffering, so caring about some prick taking potshots at a bird means you don't care about PEOPLE."

Sorry, logical fallacy. It's like saying this:

Do you care about the environment? THEN YOU SUPPORT SPOUSAL ABUSE!

Do you care about child abuse? THEN YOU SUPPORT THE PERSECUTION OF THE KURDS!

Amazingly...stunningly...normal human beings can care about more than one thing at a time! Isn't that just so like....wow?

The act of killing small animals is very strong indicator of someone who will grow up to be a killer themselves.

Why the fuck are you shooting wittle animals, go shoot people; there's plenty of em and they're not as cute.

To nitpick here, that assumes one accepts the premise that inflicting suffering is wrong. :) Someone who doesn't think this is so will clearly not see this as a superior moral code.

This is true. And we have a name for people don't think that inflicting suffering is wrong.

A sociopath.

And anyway, you'd also have to prove that the bird suffers in the way that a human does to begin with.

It has nerve endings, and a neural network, those nerves respond to stimulous, including pain.

You know what, it's less about sympathy for the bird than it is (rightful) disgust for a person who would harm an animal for no reason. This has been heightened by the pathetic emo whining of a child who cries about 'no moral absolutes' declaring that killing 'widdle birds' is morally neutral and wanking himself into a self-induced frenzy of 'oh poor oppressed me'.

Oh fuck off. Yes, you can have the fucking high ground. I hope it makes you feel good.

I have a real world to deal with. You know. One where people starve while the food to feed them is across an ocean rotting. One where people are tortured for their beliefs, and given no trial by my nation's government. One where equal human beings are denied their equal right to love whom they choose.

I'm sorry if your large, all-encompassing heart bleeds for this bird. I can't be arsed to care.

Now, you retreat behind petty (and empty) insults to accuse me of whining (I'm not the one cryng for poor Little Bird :rolleyes:), use loaded words refering to social movements that you don't understand, and I don't belong to, and accuse me of self pity. Ad Hominem justifies everything, doesn't it?

I find the pedantry illuminating in and of itself.

Yes, you see...it's not immoral to torture animals if you don't BELIEVE it's immoral.

Nice! I don't think it's immoral to go around kicking emo twats in the groin. Cool! Can I turn this on and off at will?

Oh I see, you're going to run away crying, 'but people are suffering, so caring about some prick taking potshots at a bird means you don't care about PEOPLE."

Sorry, logical fallacy. It's like saying this:

Do you care about the environment? THEN YOU SUPPORT SPOUSAL ABUSE!

Do you care about child abuse? THEN YOU SUPPORT THE PERSECUTION OF THE KURDS!

Amazingly...stunningly...normal human beings can care about more than one thing at a time! Isn't that just so like....wow?

Why are you wasting your time arguing with me about a bird when you could be out in the world alleviating suffering?

Oh, right. I know. Because you don't care about the suffering. You just care about the moral high ground. :rolleyes:

What the fuck? If an animal can not suffer in exactly the same manner as a human being, it's okay to torture them?

I find the pedantry illuminating in and of itself.

I have a real world to deal with. You know. One where people starve while the food to feed them is across an ocean rotting. One where people are tortured for their beliefs, and given no trial by my nation's government. One where equal human beings are denied their equal right to love whom they choose.

You are a child.

You wouldn't know the real world if it beat you over the ass.

And while you're sitting here talking about the ills of the world, I have to wonder....what are you doing to change it?

I find the pedantry illuminating in and of itself.
Go ahead and tell me in what way it is "illuminating", then. Don't mince words.

Oh fuck off. Yes, you can have the fucking high ground. I hope it makes you feel good.

I have a real world to deal with. You know. One where people starve while the food to feed them is across an ocean rotting. One where people are tortured for their beliefs, and given no trial by my nation's government. One where equal human beings are denied their equal right to love whom they choose. Oh my god, you're like so deep I can hardly stand it! I like...want to like...slit my wrists or something!

Please kid. You do shit about all that suffering except emote about it. Don't you have...like...some ART to CREATE or something?

Go ahead and tell me in what way it is "illuminating", then. Don't mince words.

that you resort to the intellectual equivalent of "that depends on what your definition of 'is' is" as you leap, duck, twist, dodge and weave in whatever way possible to justify immoral behavior

If their death serves a purpose, I'm ok with it.

Why isn't fun just as legitimate a purpose as satisfying your taste preferences?

Why are you wasting your time arguing with me about a bird when you could be out in the world alleviating suffering?

Oh, right. I know. Because you don't care about the suffering. You just care about the moral high ground. :rolleyes:

Right, right...

So you're back to...

Do you care about the permafrost melting? THEN YOU SUPPORT SEXUAL SLAVERY.

I'm sorry, I really am, that you are incapable of holding on to more than one thought at a time.

Damn rights I hold the moral high ground. Glad you recognise it.

Sad sad fuck, doesn't have any friends to play BB with so he shoots a bird *sigh*

You are a child.

You wouldn't know the real world if it beat you over the ass.

You are an ideologue.

You wouldn't know the real world if it beat you over the ass.

Look, mommy, I can make blanket statements too! Does that mean I wins the internets?

And while you're sitting here talking about the ills of the world, I have to wonder....what are you doing to change it?

Not as much as I'd like. I'm limmited by the fact that I have no money, and that even if I did have the means to go out and help, I'd still be legally bound to remain where I am until I graduated from High School. Truancy laws do work that way, you know?

I do, however, intend to become a member of the Peace Corps after I finish college. After that, I intend to go into charity as a profession.

What do you do, oh morally superior one?

Oh fuck off. Yes, you can have the fucking high ground. I hope it makes you feel good.

I have a real world to deal with. You know. One where people starve while the food to feed them is across an ocean rotting. One where people are tortured for their beliefs, and given no trial by my nation's government. One where equal human beings are denied their equal right to love whom they choose.

I'm sorry if your large, all-encompassing heart bleeds for this bird. I can't be arsed to care.

Now, you retreat behind petty (and empty) insults to accuse me of whining (I'm not the one cryng for poor Little Bird :rolleyes:), use loaded words refering to social movements that you don't understand, and I don't belong to, and accuse me of self pity. Ad Hominem justifies everything, doesn't it?

You live where exactly?

You see people, this is why guilt is a bad thing. Okie's whining about shooting the bird to NS has caused, at least, 5 times as much agony and gnashing of teeth as the actual deed itself did.

Why isn't fun just as legitimate a purpose as satisfying your taste preferences?

As long as after tearing apart animals you like, write a song about children starving in Africa.

Why isn't fun just as legitimate a purpose as satisfying your taste preferences?

well first off, in general, I try to only eat kosher meat, not because of a religious belief but because kashrut laws require that the animal be slaughtered humanely.

And what is the fun you're refering to here? Inflicting pain is fun? This is antisocial personality disorder. Someone who gains fun through inflicting pain is a sociopath.

Why should that ever be seen as legitimate?

You see people, this is why guilt is a bad thing. Okie's whining about shooting the bird to NS has caused, at least, 5 times as much agony and gnashing of teeth as the actual deed itself did.

That's what we're here for. The proverbial hair shirt for the creepy and icky.

Go ahead and tell me in what way it is "illuminating", then. Don't mince words.

Your star is nowhere near that ascendant, love. You'll simply have to be left wanting more... like every other Tom, Dick or Harry.

Right, right...

So you're back to...

Do you care about the permafrost melting? THEN YOU SUPPORT SEXUAL SLAVERY.

I'm sorry, I really am, that you are incapable of holding on to more than one thought at a time.

Damn rights I hold the moral high ground. Glad you recognise it.

I'm sorry that you are unable to understand that priorities matter. Now, I don't care much for what happens to birds, but I can assure you that if I did, I'd still care about other things more urgently. I certainly wouldn't waste my time flaming someone over one of said birds in a vain attempt to make myself feel superior.

that you resort to the intellectual equivalent of "that depends on what your definition of 'is' is" as you leap, duck, twist, dodge and weave in whatever way possible to justify immoral behavior
Yet I did nothing of the sort. Nowhere in the thread have I tried to justify the OP. All I was pointing out was that your statement is contingent upon one expressing the preference you made mention of. Nothing more, nothing less.

Your star is nowhere near that ascendant, love. You'll simply have to be left wanting more... like every other Tom, Dick or Harry.
Meaning, "I have no answer, but will veil this by means of a cheap insult." Fair enough.

You see people, this is why guilt is a bad thing. Okie's whining about shooting the bird to NS has caused, at least, 5 times as much agony and gnashing of teeth as the actual deed itself did.
The multiplier effect. :)

What do you do, oh morally superior one?

I billed 200 hours in pro bono legal consultation in 2006 for women seeking asylum from Africa fleeing oppressive regimes that supress their rights.

See, I actually DO something, not sit and pretend like I know how the world works while still in highschool This is why I am morally superior.

Your turn.

You live where exactly?

Somewhere in the U.S. I was reffering to Guantanomo Bay. You know. The place where people who were sold to the U.S. for a large cash reward are held without trial and (from what's been reported) subjected to "harsh treatment" that essentially is torture.

But apparently, that just isn't as important as bitching about a bird.

I'm sorry that you are unable to understand that priorities matter.

I'm sorry that you are unable to understand that while one can have priorities, and value humans over animals, it STILL doesn't mean that shooting an animal for no purpose other than to inflict pain is not wrong.

well first off, in general, I try to only eat kosher meat, not because of a religious belief but because kashrut laws require that the animal be slaughtered humanely.

Great. So it's just horrific living conditions and killing that you're supporting... not painful killing.

And what is the fun you're refering to here? Inflicting pain is fun?

Shooting at birds may be; I don't know.

Why should that ever be seen as legitimate?

Why should your desire for good-tasting food ever be seen as legitimate?

Not as much as I'd like. I'm limmited by the fact that I have no money, and that even if I did have the means to go out and help, I'd still be legally bound to remain where I am until I graduated from High School. Truancy laws do work that way, you know? Funny, in highschool I managed to help keep a community kitchen open, delivering meals to homebound elders. I organised a composting system for the local schools back when composting was a hippie excess. I worked on a Canada-wide student activist paper. I also managed to keep a part time job, smoke huge amounts of pot, get great grades and fuck a lot. And I grew up in a one-room farm house. So fuck your 'wah, I gots no money and they'll lock me up" bullshit.

And "charity as a profession"?

So you intend to inflict your totally unskilled self on the people who need help the most? Nice.:rolleyes:

Somewhere in the U.S. I was reffering to Guantanomo Bay. You know. The place where people who were sold to the U.S. for a large cash reward are held without trial and (from what's been reported) subjected to "harsh treatment" that essentially is torture.

But apparently, that just isn't as important as bitching about a bird.

what the fuck forum are you on? We've had HOW many threads about Guantanomo?

We have talked about it, a great deal. We're just not talking about it right now. Just because someone turns their attention off of a certain topic and talks about something else doesn't diminish the import of the first thing.

What have you done to change guantanomo while you've been talking here?

I'm sorry that you are unable to understand that priorities matter. Now, I don't care much for what happens to birds, but I can assure you that if I did, I'd still care about other things more urgently. I certainly wouldn't waste my time flaming someone over one of said birds in a vain attempt to make myself feel superior.

You sure seem to be spending a lot of time insisting you don't care.

Go adopt a foster child. Or lobby to have animal cruelty laws repealed because they clearly take attention away from suffering humans.

I billed 200 hours in pro bono legal consultation in 2006 for women seeking asylum from Africa fleeing oppressive regimes that supress their rights.

See, I actually DO something, not sit and pretend like I know how the world works while still in highschool This is why I am morally superior.

Your turn.

That's nice. Really. I wish I could. I'm glad you have a reason to feel superior about something (for once). If I could, I assure you, I would. As it is, I do what I can. I give about half of my puny income (essentially, 25 bucks a week) to charity.

Your moral superiority must feel nice, since you use it to defend birds. :rolleyes:

You know what, it's less about sympathy for the bird than it is (rightful) disgust for a person who would harm an animal for no reason.

You will not convince me that this kid deserves the insults that have been thrown at him for killing a bird with a BB gun. It was unreasonable, but not wicked. There were a great many predators this bird could have fallen too, and even if only for sport: As has been proven practiced my many types of felines (large and small), Most primates (but supposedly, Orangutans are the worst) and Just about any animal training young.

As I said before- I'm glad the kid had the courage to finish the job instead of running away or watching it writhe.

That's nice. Really. I wish I could. I'm glad you have a reason to feel superior about something (for once). If I could, I assure you, I would. As it is, I do what I can. I give about half of my puny income (essentially, 25 bucks a week) to charity.

Your moral superiority must feel nice, since you use it to defend birds. :rolleyes:

So is that 25 bucks going to be enough to bail those guys out of Guantanamo Bay?

You will not convince me that this kid deserves the insults that have been thrown at him for killing a bird with a BB gun.

Yes, he does.

It was unreasonable, but not wicked.

Yes it was.

There were a great many predators this bird could have fallen too, and even if only for sport: As has been proven practiced my many types of felines (large and small), Most primates (but supposedly, Orangutans are the worst) and Just about any animal training young.

Because of what might have happened to it at some point in the future doesn't excuse what he did.

As I said before- I'm glad the kid had the courage to finish the job instead of running away or watching it writhe.

And as I said before, I would have prefered he not have done it at all.

Funny, in highschool I managed to help keep a community kitchen open, delivering meals to homebound elders. I organised a composting system for the local schools back when composting was a hippie excess. I worked on a Canada-wide student activist paper. I also managed to keep a part time job, smoke huge amounts of pot, get great grades and fuck a lot. And I grew up in a one-room farm house. So fuck your 'wah, I gots no money and they'll lock me up" bullshit.

That's nice. I'm glad you're perfect. Really. It's nice.

And "charity as a profession"?

So you intend to inflict your totally unskilled self on the people who need help the most? Nice.:rolleyes:

No, I intend to go into a drastically underpayed field of work, rather than going into a better-paying one, out of a desire to use my education to help others. That way, I can do 40 or 50 hours a week of work for charity.

That's nice. Really. I wish I could. I'm glad you have a reason to feel superior about something (for once). If I could, I assure you, I would. As it is, I do what I can. I give about half of my puny income (essentially, 25 bucks a week) to charity.

Your moral superiority must feel nice, since you use it to defend birds. :rolleyes:

Wow...those women were actually birds, Arthais? Can you even DO pro bono work for birds?

KSP...could you HURT anymore for the PEOPLE? Could you FEEL their pain any more deeply? How bowed down by your EMPATHY you must be....there, I started a lame song for you. Run along and finish it.

That's nice. I'm glad you're perfect. Really. It's nice.

Cute. So someone basically shuts down your entire argument and you pull that passive agressive bullshit.

You aren't nearly as good a person as you think you are. If you were, you wouldn't be using those excuses.

So is that 25 bucks going to be enough to bail those guys out of Guantanamo Bay?

Hey, asshole, we all do what we can. Some of us aren't made of money. Some of us attend class for 8 hours, have music commitments afterwards, and homework to do. Some of us don't have the luxury of doing everything we'd like to.

As I said before- I'm glad the kid had the courage to finish the job instead of running away or watching it writhe.

Unless you've been napping, the thread has shifted from the great white hunter to listening to the dark, gloomy emo messiah who one day will dedicate his LIFE to alleviating the suffering of his fellow human beings...not just obsessing over a bird to the exclusion of all the evils in this world like the rest of us...yes, he'll do this...one day...just not, like, right now, because um, like...he's too caught up in his art. Or something.

Hey, asshole, we all do what we can. Some of us aren't made of money. Some of us attend class for 8 hours, have music commitments afterwards, and homework to do. Some of us don't have the luxury of doing everything we'd like to.

Oooh, a little sensitive are we?

Wow...those women were actually birds, Arthais? Can you even DO pro bono work for birds?

KSP...could you HURT anymore for the PEOPLE? Could you FEEL their pain any more deeply? How bowed down by your EMPATHY you must be....there, I started a lame song for you. Run along and finish it.

Oh go cry for a fucking bird. I don't have time to be abused by a self-centered moralist who gets their jollies from demonstrating their moral superiority to the internet as a whole.

Go back to picking on misguided kids. It might make you feel better.

And fuck you. I enjoy music. At least my music has a point. Unlike bullshit pop songs about love and loss.

I once killed a human being with a spring BB pistol.

Oooh, a little sensitive are we?

Go troll elsewhere, please. There are enough trolls in this thread without one so transparent and simplistic as yourself.

Unless you've been napping, the thread has shifted from the great white hunter to listening to the dark, gloomy emo messiah who one day will dedicate his LIFE to alleviating the suffering of his fellow human beings...not just obsessing over a bird to the exclusion of all the evils in this world like the rest of us...yes, he'll do this...one day...just not, like, right now, because um, like...he's too caught up in his art. Or something.

and has classes to do.

And mommy wants him home for dinner, and he's really not let out of the house after 9.

Hey, asshole, we all do what we can. Some of us aren't made of money. Some of us attend class for 8 hours, have music commitments afterwards, and homework to do. Some of us don't have the luxury of doing everything we'd like to.

Have you considered being a stripper? In Spain they make good money. ;)

Yes, he does.

To serve what purpose to him? He's already regretted the action. It would seem your derision only serves you. There are some remarks here one could classify as bullying.

Yes it was.

We shall have to simply disagree on that point. I think it is only the conveniences of modern life that gives us our new feelings for non-sentient animals.

Because of what might have happened to it at some point in the future doesn't excuse what he did.

I've yet to be convinced its the kind of situation the needs to be "excused". Of course, he was the one who posted it on a public forum. Were I him, it would have likely been nothing more than a paragraph in one of my journals.

And as I said before, I would have prefered he not have done it at all.

No one is celebrating the act, but what's done is done.

Go troll elsewhere, please. There are enough trolls in this thread without one so transparent and simplistic as yourself.

you're funny.

*gags*

What? You would prefer I sang songs about vain, faux-romance, useless drugs, useless parties, and "my crew".

Go troll elsewhere, please. There are enough trolls in this thread without one so transparent and simplistic as yourself.

You're not one of them right?

At least my music has a point.

awww, isn't that cute. His music has a "point". What point is that junior, how much life is suffering because daddy grounded you for "borrowing" the car and not telling him?

At least my music has a point.

*gags*

What? You would prefer I sang songs about vain, faux-romance, useless drugs, useless parties, and "my crew".

I think we'd all prefer if you didn't operate under this self centered dillusion that you're somehow "special".

That's nice. I'm glad you're perfect. Really. It's nice. Thanks for noticing!



No, I intend to go into a drastically underpayed field of work, rather than going into a better-paying one, out of a desire to use my education to help others. That way, I can do 40 or 50 hours a week of work for charity.You know what we need the most? SKILLED people to donate their time and energy...not whiny minimum wage earners. Why? Because people who can support themselves, are more sustainable as activists. As well, since they actually have marketable skills people in need can USE, they are more EFFECTIVE.

Like lawyers doing pro bono.

Like teachers.

Like medical professionals donating their time to the poor.

Some high school kid with a resume stuffed with burger flipping? Yeah. Not so useful.

awww, isn't that cute. His music has a "point". What point is that junior, how much life is suffering because daddy grounded you for "borrowing" the car and not telling him?

Never written a song about that. I don't play pop. I play punk. You know. Music about issues. Personal Politics. National Politics. International Politics. Your silly little steryiotypes show you for the straw-person you really are.

Never written a song about that. I don't play pop. I play punk. You know. Music about issues. Personal Politics. National Politics. International Politics. Your silly little steryiotypes show you for the straw-person you really are.

and what, exactly, would have you learned about it in your days of highschool?

You do have to get over this opinion that you're somehow special.

You know what we need the most? SKILLED people to donate their time and energy...not whiny minimum wage earners. Why? Because people who can support themselves, are more sustainable as activists. As well, since they actually have marketable skills people in need can USE, they are more EFFECTIVE

And which part of "After I go to college" did you miss, troll? I don't intend to foist myself skilless on an industry that doesn't need that kind of help. Charities need organizers, spokespeople, marketers, and executives too, you know.

and what, exactly, would have you learned about it in your days of highschool?

You do have to get over this opinion that you're somehow special.

The irony is overwhelming.

Oh go cry for a fucking bird. I don't have time to be abused by a self-centered moralist who gets their jollies from demonstrating their moral superiority to the internet as a whole.

Go back to picking on misguided kids. It might make you feel better.

And fuck you. I enjoy music. At least my music has a point. Unlike bullshit pop songs about love and loss.

Your music. *giggles*

Arthais and I, and others here, actually DO things that make a difference in people's lives, and alleviate the suffering you like to think about, but never act on.

So yes. Again, I say that signals a moral superiority. No matter how much you want to make it about 'caring about a bird = supporting genocide' you can't. And no matter how much you want us to be amazed at how DEEPLY YOU FEEL...you come across as nothing but shallow.

and what, exactly, would have you learned about it in your days of highschool?

You do have to get over this opinion that you're somehow special.

No kidding.

I once killed a human being with a spring BB pistol.

I once killed a army of neo-nazi, cthulhu worshiping, midgets using only some duct tape and my left big toe.

The part of your human nature that wants to hurt things and the part that doesn't want things to suffer clashed in an internal battle.
Yeah and the bird lost..................

Never written a song about that. I don't play pop. I play punk. You know. Music about issues. Personal Politics. National Politics. International Politics. Your silly little steryiotypes show you for the straw-person you really are.

*collapses, howling with laughter*

I can't believe we're discussing 'your music' *tears in eyes*

Did you then feed the homeless, invent the potatoe, and make the world's first sweat shop?

No, that belongs to me. He, however, invented the wheel in a past life.

And which part of "After I go to college" did you miss, troll? I don't intend to foist myself skilless on an industry that doesn't need that kind of help. Charities need organizers, spokespeople, marketers, and executives too, you know.

I never knew that. I thought they all just kind of happened spontaneously.

What? You would prefer I sang songs about vain, faux-romance, useless drugs, useless parties, and "my crew".

Twatting you over the head with your electric twanger is what I'd prefer.

Well its late and I'm off. I would like to point out one thing:

This thread celebrated its start with needlessly volatile insults directed at a kid (okie) and appears it will end with volatile insults directed at another one (ksp).

It really is kind of sick.

Twatting you over the head with your electric twanger is what I'd prefer.

But what about needless suffering, teacher? Right. Because I'm one of those evil people who thinks that birds (which are not sentient people) aren't really so important, and that those who are busy having bleeding hearts over a single bird in South Carolina are wasting their time. I don't deserve the same treatment, eh?

I once killed a army of neo-nazi, cthulhu worshiping, midgets using only some duct tape and my left big toe.

Did you then feed the homeless, invent the potatoe, and make the world's first sweat shop?

Twatting you over the head with your electric twanger is what I'd prefer.

Hahahahaha, Dobbs, I can't breath...it's too much...it's like...every annoying kid I ever taught all wrapped up into one oozing package of, 'MAKE IT ALL ABOUT ME PEOPLE!!!!'

Someone drop this kid in the middle of a Reserve...please....and film it :D

*collapses, howling with laughter*

I can't believe we're discussing 'your music' *tears in eyes*

You brought the issue up. If you wanna return to a relevant topic be my guest. You seem to get more jollies from insulting and attacking me than from talking on the issue.

The irony is overwhelming.

once again kiddo, I actually do something.

Yes yes I know it's hard when you're young and can't do anything. So grow the fuck up, start doing something, THEN you can cop an attitude.

Until then, you're a child who hasn't accomplished jack shit all, and I have no reason to treat you any other way.

Did you then feed the homeless, invent the potatoe, and make the world's first sweat shop?

That, and I saved the whales. Then I watched Wayne's World. It was most awesome.

once again kiddo, I actually do something.

Yes yes I know it's hard when you're young and can't do anything. So grow the fuck up, start doing something, THEN you can cop an attitude.

Until then, you're a child who hasn't accomplished jack shit all, and I have no reason to treat you any other way.

Oh dear God. Your God complex is justified by the fact that you do good things. And you accuse me of being juvenile.

Oh dear God. Your God complex is justified by the fact that you do good things. And you accuse me of being juvenile.

Because your god complex is based on writing punk songs and doing nothing?

No, that's not why you're juvenile.

Keep guessing though...maybe you'll become enlightened and grow up.

Oh dear God. Your God complex is justified by the fact that you do good things. And you accuse me of being juvenile.

relevant parts bolded.

As you admit, I DO them.

You do not.

So grow up, actually accomplish something, then start talking.

That, and I saved the whales. Then I watched Wayne's World. It was most awesome.

I gave birth to Ghandi, tore down the Berlin Wall, invented ichiban, and had sex with Chuck Norris. All before supper time.


Oh yeah...and I wrote a punk song about it.

Thanks for noticing!

You know what we need the most? SKILLED people to donate their time and energy...not whiny minimum wage earners. Why? Because people who can support themselves, are more sustainable as activists. As well, since they actually have marketable skills people in need can USE, they are more EFFECTIVE.

Like lawyers doing pro bono.

Like teachers.

Like medical professionals donating their time to the poor.

Some high school kid with a resume stuffed with burger flipping? Yeah. Not so useful.


Just to say, I recently spent two years teaching the Adobe Suite to underprivileged children. I might not be a doctor or a lawyer, but I've helped out - while still doing something I excel at. At least one of those kids has gone on to secure a student loan and get himself into college. Most of the others probably won't get so far, but I did something positive for them anyways. I tried.

And it felt good, not because I was somehow better than them, or greater than them - it felt good because they were learning what I was teaching them, they had begun to understand just what they could do with the tools I was providing them.

But, I'm digressing.

But what about needless suffering, teacher? Right. Because I'm one of those evil people who thinks that birds (which are not sentient people) aren't really so important, and that those who are busy having bleeding hearts over a single bird in South Carolina are wasting their time. I don't deserve the same treatment, eh?

So, do you really think that what you're doing or going to do will solve all these problems you claim to be addressing? Do you honestly believe that you can end starvation, stop the violence in Africa, give all homeless people jobs and housing, etc, by donating 25 dollars every week and volunteering at charity organizations? I'm not saying that's not respectable work, but the way you talk (or type rather) you sound as if you're the seconds Jesus who has the answers to everything, which you probably don't.

The kid felt bad about taking a life away when it didn't need to happen, and you come barging in saying, "ZOMG!!!111 CHILDREN IN AFRICA DIE! CHILD SLAVE LABOR IS HAPPENING!!!111 ITS ONLY A BIRD!!!!!!!11111111 LETS ALL GO SAVE THE WORLD!!!!!!1111"

I guess since pretty much everything besides humans and primates aren't "sentiate beings" we should just not care about them since they obviously don't contribute to solving world hunger or anything of the sort.

Grow up.

As you admit, I DO them.

You do not.

So grow up, actually accomplish something, then start talking.

I do what I can. Guess what. That's reality. We aren't all fortunate professional lawyers with spare time and spare education. Sorry. When I have them, I'll do my part. Until then, I'm doing something, and I'm content that I actually am.

Either way, it isn't justification for a God Complex or for moral absolutism. It certainly isn't an excuse for e-wankery attacking a kid who was dealing with a moral issue regarding an experience he had.

Just to say, I recently spent two years teaching the Adobe Suite to underprivileged children. I might not be a doctor or a lawyer, but I've helped out - while still doing something I excel at. At least one of those kids has gone on to secure a student loan and get himself into college. Most of the others probably won't get so far, but I did something positive for them anyways. I tried.

And it felt good, not because I was somehow better than them, or greater than them - it felt good because they were learning what I was teaching them, they had begun to understand just what they could do with the tools I was providing them.

But, I'm digressing.Not a digression at all.

You have skills. Pretty amazing ones actually, that we've been most privileged to witness from time to time. And you acted.

The list I made was certainly not intended to be exhaustive. But it specifically excluded people who sit around and bitch about the world, but do nothing at all to improve it.

KSP has admited that this is all he does. Bitch, moan, and get angry at those of us who act.

Ok this is what happened... (Taken from IRC)
<Okie> see i was in the woods with my BB gun
<Okie> and i saw this bird swoop in
<Okie> so i shot at it
<Okie> and i crushed its left wing
<Okie> so it started hoppng around cuz it couldnt fly
<Okie> and you cant leave a bird like that to die
<Okie> so i chased it to kill it so it wouldnt suffer and die slowly
<Okie> but i shot it once and it was stil alive so i shot it three more times
<Okie> but it was still alive and it squeaked and looked to be in pain
<Okie> so i pumped my gun all 10 times and shot it in the head and got bird blood all over me :(
So... What is wrong with me?

A lousy shot, I'd say, from the amount of ammo you had pump into it to put it out of its misery.

A lousy shot, I'd say, from the amount of ammo you had pump into it to put it out of its misery.

It would have been much more simple to break its neck. Shooting it 10 times seems gleefully excessive.

It certainly isn't an excuse for e-wankery attacking a kid who was dealing with a moral issue regarding an experience he had.


He came on a public forum and asked the public what we thought of him and his actions.

He asked the question, I answered it. It is my belief that he was a bad person for doing what he did.

If he was unwilling to hear that answer, he should not have asked the question.

He came on a public forum and asked the public what we thought of him and his actions.

He asked the question, I answered it. It is my belief that he was a bad person for doing what he did.

If he was unwilling to hear that answer, he should not have asked the question.

Can I get an AMEN?

He came on a public forum and asked the public what we thought of him and his actions.

He asked the question, I answered it. It is my belief that he was a bad person for doing what he did.

If he was unwilling to hear that answer, he should not have asked the question.

Right then. Either he's a kid who should be treated as a kid or he isn't. Either he's too dumb to know how the world works, and should therefore be taught, or he's an adult who can be attacked ruthlessly.

You can't have it both ways.

He came on a public forum and asked the public what we thought of him and his actions.

He asked the question, I answered it. It is my belief that he was a bad person for doing what he did.

If he was unwilling to hear that answer, he should not have asked the question.

Hear, hear. Quite agreed.

Do the same rules apply to you?

I'm applying his logic to the issue. I have nothing to do with this, no matter how much he wants to make it about me.

Right then. Either he's a kid who should be treated as a kid or he isn't.

He is a kid and should be treated like a kid.

Going "oh, it's ok that you tortured an animal for your amusement, just don't do it again" is not how you treat a kid.

Telling him his actions were wrong and to not do it again is.

I'm applying his logic to the issue. I have nothing to do with this, no matter how much he wants to make it about me.

kiddo, the only one who has been trying to make this about you is you.

That however does seem to be your raison d'etra

Right then. Either he's a kid who should be treated as a kid or he isn't. Either he's too dumb to know how the world works, and should therefore be taught, or he's an adult who can be attacked ruthlessly.

You can't have it both ways.

Do the same rules apply to you?

I'm applying his logic to the issue. I have nothing to do with this, no matter how much he wants to make it about me.

Ugh, you've done nothing but make it about you.

Now stop attention-whoring, and go save a baby seal from a clubbing.

Oh wait, no, you're not into animals.

Well, go volunteer for a Food Bank.

Oh wait, no, you're not into actual action.

Ok, well go do what it is you do. Whine.

Just do it elsewhere. I'm sure you parents need their daily dose.

I think you're a despicable human being. That's disgusting and cruel.

I think you're a despicable human being. That's disgusting and cruel.

Yup, pretty much.

He is a kid and should be treated like a kid.

Going "oh, it's ok that you tortured an animal for your amusement, just don't do it again" is not how you treat a kid.

Telling him his actions were wrong and to not do it again is.

Because, telling him is actions were wrong is equivalent to calling him.

murderous, bored little thug who

an absolute, disgusting little twat.

To be fair, you aren't at fault for that. You managed to be civil, up until you decided to call me a sociopath.

kiddo, the only one who has been trying to make this about you is you.

That however does seem to be your raison d'etra

So I'm the one who started calling me an Emo? I'm the one who brought up what I do for charity? No. That was you. Not me. I don't really take a fancy to being attacked by a bunch of assholes with nothing better to do. I'd rather talk about the issues. You just want to insult me, because you can't defend your stances.

Because, telling him is actions were wrong is equivalent to calling him.

"Johnny, torturing animals is wrong, and if you do it, you are a disgusting thug".

Yup, sounds about right.

KSP, bitching and moaning about suffering and doing nothing to alleviate it is wrong. Doing that makes you a twat.



To be fair, you aren't at fault for that. You managed to be civil, up until you decided to call me a sociopath.That was someone else. I just called you a twat.

I'd rather talk about the issues.

Bingo.

That's the problem though. This thread isn't about your issues. If you want to discuss those issues important to you, make another thread.

"Johnny, torturing animals is wrong."

"Johnny, YOU are wrong."

So not the same thing. You fail at parenting.

"Johnny, YOU are wrong"

is different from

"Johnny, you're an absolute, disgusting little twat"


That was someone else. I just called you a twat.

That was the person I was quoting.

So I'm the one who started calling me an Emo? I'm the one who brought up what I do for charity? No. That was you. Not me. I don't really take a fancy to being attacked by a bunch of assholes with nothing better to do. I'd rather talk about the issues. You just want to insult me, because you can't defend your stances.

Problem is, you don't understand the issues.

That happens when a person has no life experience.

Bingo.

That's the problem though. This thread isn't about your issues. If you want to discuss those issues important to you, make another thread.

The issue. You know. The kid that was attacked for his actions? Nothing to do with me. Stop taking every chance to make this into a flame-fest and talk about the real issue or shut the fuck up. If you persist in making personal attacks, I'll find something else to do, and you'll be back to making baseless moral accusations to make yourself feel better.

"Johnny, YOU are wrong"

is different from

"Johnny, you're an absolute, disgusting little twat"



Yup, the second follows when the twat keeps killing animals for fun, even after being told it was wrong.

1) He was murderous. See bird, deceased.

2) He would've had to have been bored to be moved to playing with toy armaments. Under-stimulated, certainly. Or perhaps over-stimulated by certain popularly recurrent themes in preferred media. Only he can say for sure, and I haven't seen the OP in hours. But boredom does feature prominently in my suppositions as to the OP's comportment in this instance.

So you would teach a child by calling them names, rather than trying to teach them?

Some shitty teacher you are, eh?

The issue. You know. The kid that was attacked for his actions?

He was called an immoral thug for doing something that only an immoral thug would do.

I don't really see the problem here.


Nothing to do with me. Stop taking every chance to make this into a flame-fest and talk about the real issue or shut the fuck up. If you persist in making personal attacks, I'll find something else to do, and you'll be back to making baseless moral accusations to make yourself feel better.

Please, for the love of god, find something else to do.

That way we won't have to put up with your crap.

murderous, bored little thug who

Eek! KSP quoted me as I'm such an unreasonable sort to slag a thug for his thuggery:

1) He was murderous. See bird, deceased.

2) He would've had to have been bored to be moved to playing with toy armaments. Under-stimulated, certainly. Or perhaps over-stimulated by certain popularly recurrent themes in preferred media. Only he can say for sure, and I haven't seen the OP in hours. But boredom does feature prominently in my suppositions as to the OP's comportment in this instance.

Problem is, you don't understand the issues.

That happens when a person has no life experience.

Once again you choose to make it about me, to attack me with ad hominems, rather than adressing the issue. You are a disengenuous hypocrite who is dodging the point because they feel the need for self justification by demonstrating their "moral superiority" to those that disagree with them.

Find someone else to debate with.

So you would teach a child by calling them names, rather than trying to teach them?

Some shitty teacher you are, eh?

we're not trying to TEACH him anything. He asked us for our opinions, we gave them to him. In neesika's opinion, he's a twat.

Again, what's the problem? If he doesn't like hearing our opinions, he shouldn't have asked.