NationStates Jolt Archive

very funny.
tell me why you say that.

“We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.”

“We must expel the Arabs and take their places.”

- David Ben-Gurion

“We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.”

“We must expel the Arabs and take their places.”

- David Ben-Gurion Can you provide a source for those? I'm not doubting your honesty but fake Israeli quotes have been made before - such as what Sharon was purported to have said - "We Jews control America, and Americans know this." Also, does this Ben-Gurion character have much influence?

Regardless I stand by my position that Israel cannot and should not be dismantled. That would be, to use my earlier analogy, like asking all Ulster Scots to leave NI under duress - or saying "Anglos out of America".

http://thinkexist.com/quotes/david_ben-gurion/

“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” Jaysus. He sounds like Paisley.

Can you provide a source for those? I'm not doubting your honesty but fake Israeli quotes have been made before - such as what Sharon was purported to have said - "We Jews control America, and Americans know this." Also, does this Ben-Gurion character have much influence?

Regardless I stand by my position that Israel cannot and should not be dismantled. That would be, to use my earlier analogy, like asking all Ulster Scots to leave NI under duress - or saying "Anglos out of America".

Ben-Gurion was the founding father of Israel.

Ben-Gurion was the founding father of Israel.

Exactly, it is truly scary when the Founding Father of your nation says stuff like that.

“We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.”

“We must expel the Arabs and take their places.”

- David Ben-GurionBen-Gurion was the founding father of Israel.does not surprise me.

Here's a little test, quote Ben Gurion whenever IDF starts ranting on NSG, and see how fast he changes the subject:p

Here's a little test, quote Ben Gurion whenever IDF starts ranting on NSG, and see how fast he changes the subject:p


In fairness hes far from the worst offender, and some of the people he gives a hard time to are border-line anti-semites. The nastiest (in terms of pro-Israeli views) I've encountered have been "christian" Americans. Not 18-30 year olds either. Some of their views are appalling, particularily given some of their positions ('pastor' or what have you) and age. Years are no guide to sense, betimes.

However if you want the proverbial garlic to the pro-Israeli camp, when they say that land was bought anyway, ask how much. Two things will happen - they will dissappear or they will dissappear, look it up, and never mention it again. Its edutainment.

In fairness hes far from the worst offender, and some of the people he gives a hard time to are border-line anti-semites. The nastiest (in terms of pro-Israeli views) I've encountered have been "christian" Americans. Not 18-30 year olds either. Some of their views are appalling, particularily given some of their positions ('pastor' or what have you) and age. Years are no guide to sense, betimes.

However if you want the proverbial garlic to the pro-Israeli camp, when they say that land was bought anyway, ask how much. Two things will happen - they will dissappear or they will dissappear, look it up, and never mention it again. Its edutainment. The thing is… are you willing to give your South West back? After all I heard you cheated the Mexicans by buying it unfairly :p

In fairness hes far from the worst offender, and some of the people he gives a hard time to are border-line anti-semites. The nastiest (in terms of pro-Israeli views) I've encountered have been "christian" Americans. Not 18-30 year olds either. Some of their views are appalling, particularily given some of their positions ('pastor' or what have you) and age. Years are no guide to sense, betimes.

However if you want the proverbial garlic to the pro-Israeli camp, when they say that land was bought anyway, ask how much. Two things will happen - they will dissappear or they will dissappear, look it up, and never mention it again. Its edutainment.

Seriously, I did not know about this, how much did they pay, because I have heard IDF use it as an excuse many a time.

“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”

Meh - at least he's honest.

The thing is… are you willing to give your South West back? After all I heard you cheated the Mexicans by buying it unfairly :p

Emmm...You're presuming I'm American.....

Seriously, I did not know about this, how much did they pay, because I have heard IDF use it as an excuse many a time.


Actually I meant how much as in what overall percentage of the land area. The lowest figure you'll find is 8%, the highest 10%. If you see 26% it refers to Arable land. The idea of the land being mostly owned by absentee landlords is also untrue. The "Jewish Virtual library" website has the correct figure in dunums, I seem to remember.

Emmm...You're presuming I'm American..... Display your location then. I assume everyone's American until proven otherwise - seems to work.

Display your location then. I assume everyone's American until proven otherwise - seems to work.

"seems" being the important bit there. I get along quite nicely, as I am, Thanks.

Display your location then. I assume everyone's American until proven otherwise - seems to work.Are you kidding?

Exactly, it is truly scary when the Founding Father of your nation says stuff like that.Scary but not unexpected.

The American founding fathers kept slaves, the founder of England was a bloodthirsty conqueror... etc. What exactly is your point?

the founder of England was a bloodthirsty conqueror... etc. I have to correct you on this one. It's difficult to say whether there was a "founder of England" - Brythons, Celts, Romans, Normans?
What exactly is your point? Israel's founding is a lot closer to the present day than America's, so its founding ethos will have more impact. However, it is obvious that Israel hasn't taken the path Gurion seemed to want - ie, a replay of the book of Joshua.
"seems" being the important bit there. I get along quite nicely, as I am, Thanks. I now proceed to stage 2 - if you're not American, you must be either Canadian, British or Australian. :)

I am not a structural engineer, but I know a little about excavation in urban areas.

The foundations of a building near an excavation may be damaged by the excavation if the excavation is too close, and proper shoring has not been done. Heavy vibrations caused by impacts close to the existing foundation would not affect the existing foundations. This is obvious when you see piles being driven 2 feet away from the foundations of existing buildings. Since the work would be done 50 metres away from the mosque, they probably would not even need to shore up the existing foundations with soldier piles and sleepers.

Also, since archaelogical digs are very careful and time consuming, it would be intelligent to assume that the current archaelogical work would not affect the mosque's foundations either, even if these digs laid the foundations bare.

My apologies if this information has already been posted.

I am not a structural engineer, but I know a little about excavation in urban areas.

The foundations of a building near an excavation may be damaged by the excavation if the excavation is too close, and proper shoring has not been done. Heavy vibrations caused by impacts close to the existing foundation would not affect the existing foundations. This is obvious when you see piles being driven 2 feet away from the foundations of existing buildings. Since the work would be done 50 metres away from the mosque, they probably would not even need to shore up the existing foundations with soldier piles and sleepers.

Also, since archaelogical digs are very careful and time consuming, it would be intelligent to assume that the current archaelogical work would not affect the mosque's foundations either, even if these digs laid the foundations bare.

My apologies if this information has already been posted.

I don't believe so. Your contribution on the specifics is appreciated.

Mrs Rice is no structural engineer, but she has an opinion too..
"
Mon Feb 19, 10:22 AM ET
JERUSALEM (AFP) - Muslim concerns about Israeli renovations near a revered Jerusalem mosque are justified, said US Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice in an interview with a Palestinian newspaper.

"There are some safety concerns, but there are also some very justified concerns about not crossing certain lines with the excavation," the US top diplomat was quoted as telling Al-Ayyam.

She called on the Israeli authorities to consult all concerned parties before going forward with the building work to a ramp leading to the Al-Aqsa mosque compound, Islam's third holiest site.
"
http://news.yahoo.com/i/1520;_ylt=AtD5zAvLr1ybSysdAh4HMPSs0NUE