NationStates Jolt Archive

nobody has to deliver anything. in so far as there will be a delivery of anything at all, it would be done by the person who already occupies the position of reading resolutions into the record. and to suggest that it should be done by somebody else 'to prove a point' is stupid. and when that point appears to be 'lookit the blacks being foolish', it can be nothing other than racism.
Who is the "person who already occupies the position of reading resolutions into the record"?

and to suggest that it should be done by somebody else 'to prove a point' is stupid.
Go go gadget irony!

and when that point appears to be 'lookit the blacks being foolish', it can be nothing other than racism.
This whole thing is already "lookit the blacks being foolish/racist/bigoted." Shit like this will only further racism. You want to work on helping racism? Start working your racist ass towards the middle. 'Whitey' can't do everything, and shouldn't be expected to.

The black agenda also has to make good-will maneuvers if they don't want people to see them as bigots themselves and thusly encourage racism in the process of "trying to solve" it.

What does Virginia apologizing for slavery solve? Same thing the Jews apologizing for killing Christ solves -nothing but proof that those encouraging hollow and pointless apologies are racist themselves and want to be recognized and approved of for being so.

The black agenda could give a fuck less about Virginia apologizing, despite the fact that they themselves are legislatures in the state of Virginia, Virginia represents 'whitey' and 'whitey' should be made to pay for his crimes against the black people until the black people think they are even. Oh yeah, that sure helps discourage racism.

Civics 101, people. You should consider it your prerequisite for posting around these threads. :PThe government may be a legal entity but governments do not really exist in the real world they are nothing more than concepts of how individual people work together collectively for specific purposes. My question to you oh wise one is how do concepts apologise?

Who is the "person who already occupies the position of reading resolutions into the record"?

couldn't tell you off the top of my head. the clerk, probably?

Shit like this will only further racism

evidence?

Who had what to do with slavery?


I'm not going to do your history homework for you.


EDIT: Nevermind, I demand Lionell Spruill, Dwight Jones, Benjamin Lambert, Louise Lucas, and Yvonne Miller to apologize on the behalf of the state of Virginia for its part in slavery.

If that doesn't outline the absurdity of this, nothing will.

You're right, it doesn't - because it's not absurd.

lets say the virginia state government was to apologize. would that really accomplish anything?

would a bunch of black people get over their "my ancestors were mistreated" attitude? or would history rewrite itself and slavery would of never existed?

lets say the virginia state government was to apologize. would that really accomplish anything?

yes. it could begin the process of reconciliation. which is precisely what it is intended to do.

yes. it could begin the process of reconciliation. which is precisely what it is intended to do.

keep on living in your world of make believe. it sounds like a magical place

keep on living in your world of make believe. it sounds like a magical place

keep living in your world where bad things that happened a long time ago become not bad things after a time.

keep on living in your world of make believe. it sounds like a magical place

there is a group of people that feel the need for reconciliation. one of the things they want is a simple apology. the group they seek to repair relations with refuses the idea out of hand. thus the relations are not repaired. who in their right mind wants this outcome?

lets say the virginia state government was to apologize. would that really accomplish anything?

Let's say I bump into you in the hall, and I were to apologize. Would that really accomplish anything?

Apologies aren't for "accomplishment."

Jeez, were you raised in a barn or what?

would a bunch of black people get over their "my ancestors were mistreated" attitude?

How is stating that their ancestors were mistreated an "attitude?" It's a simple bloody fact. I don't see you go around whining to Jews about the Holocaust. "Oh, you Jews, always bitching just cuz your ancestors were slaughtered. You buncha crybabies!"

or would history rewrite itself and slavery would of never existed?

LOL YAH CUZ THATS WHAT APOLOGIES ARE FOR! TIME TRAVEL!

:rolleyes:

Absurdity seems to be this thread.

How is stating that their ancestors were mistreated an "attitude?" It's a simple bloody fact. I don't see you go around whining to Jews about the Holocaust. "Oh, you Jews, always bitching just cuz your ancestors were slaughtered. You buncha crybabies!"Well, the problem is that some abuse such statements to give themselves more weight in current political debates, as if the misery of an ancestor makes the descendant or his positions more important somehow. The same as some blacks still bitching about slavery or colonialism, only to divert attention from their current shortcomings.

Well, the problem is that some abuse such statements to give themselves more weight in current political debates, as if the misery of an ancestor makes the descendant or his positions more important somehow. The same as some blacks still bitching about slavery or colonialism, only to divert attention from their current shortcomings.

Oh of course. They only "bitch about" slavery because "their lives suck" and they want to "blame someone." It couldn't be because racism - the racism that allows American Citizens and Government to enslave black people - is still at large in this country.

Look at this thread man. Look at this fucking thread. You have people here talking about "The black agenda" like they're fucking Der Sturmer talking about "The Jew agenda."

My grandmother, a Native American, was forced into a federal boarding school and beaten if she dared to speak her own language or "act Indian." This isn't ancient history. It's not irrelevant. And damn straight I'm gonna "bitch" about it. I can't even imagine what it's like to have had my ancestors bought and sold like cattle. And then have assholes tell me to just "get over it," "quit bitching" and make allusions to my "black agenda." Sickening.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/27/AR2007012701308.html?sub=AR

I was having a "discussion" about this with my boyfriend last night, about whether what this guy said was racist/antisemitist, and whether the state of Virginia should issue an official apology for slavery. He said that:
1) the guy is right, it's basically the same thing because nobody alive now had anything to do with slavery or Jesus Christ,
2) issuing an apology won't change anybody's daily lives and will only cost the taxpayers money and waste the government's time, and
3) could cause some of the white constituents in the state to become angry and take it out on the black constituents.

I said that:
1) it is a bigoted statement overall because it is coming from a white man who unofficially wields power over blacks just by virtue of being white,
2) the comparison of slavery to the killing of Christ is outrageous because slavery happened fairly recently in the scheme of things and is well-documented and directly led to us living with the descendants of slavery who are angry about what happened to their family, while "jews killing Christ" basically amounts to religious myth and has not led to jews being in a position of power to oppress christians in this country, and
3) issuing an official apology is a show of good faith to his black constituents, and sends a message that they realize slavery was wrong and that it will not happen again and that they do not condone acts of predjudice to occur now, and it would cost a negligible amount of money or time considering that the black community feels that it is important and doing so would show them that the state of Virginia cares about them and is invested in doing right by them now.

What do you think?

The analogy fails because early Christian mythology was written by Jews for Jews. It wasn't concerned with the behavior of pagans, even if they were the leaders of the most powerful nation on the face of the Earth. Stories written in the Bible may have a historical basis, but they are stories. They are no more based in fact than the Amityville Horror or The Exorcist.

Slavery however is well documented historical fact. Even if it existed at the level it's apologists claim it did, it is still an apaling aspect of our national identity, not least of all because it's legal shadow was cast right up until the end of the 20th century and its cultural one continues now.

It's not like asking the Jews to apologize for killing Jesus. It's like asking Halliburton to apologize for war profiteering. i.e. It's pointless to ask someone to apologize for something they want to keep doing.

You're right, it doesn't - because it's not absurd.

Yeah, you're not dense or anything.

it could begin the process of reconciliation.
If the Virginia Constitution of 1864 abolishing slavery didn't do it; if black people being in the state legislature didn't do it; if black people being in the US legislature, White House staff, and Supreme Court didn't do it; and if a black man being elected governor of Virginia didn't do it, a empty and pointless political gesture isn't going to do it.

Let's say I bump into you in the hall, and I were to apologize. Would that really accomplish anything?
Not if you were apologizing for halls being narrow.

How is stating that their ancestors were mistreated an "attitude?" It's a simple bloody fact.
It's a fact that has become an attitude. The black agenda focuses around slavery existing at one point in history. They don't try to better themselves or try to move forward and work towards advancements in race relations, they just want to focus on the past and get meaningless reparations. Slavery is over, yet black people pretend it still exists (especially Domici).

You mentioned the Jews. It isn't the Jews still whining about the Holocaust, it's everyone else trying to overcompensate for it that are whining about it.

It's not like asking the Jews to apologize for killing Jesus. It's like asking Halliburton to apologize for war profiteering. i.e. It's pointless to ask someone to apologize for something they want to keep doing.
You know what? Somehow, I don't know how, but somehow you have said the fucking stupidest thing said in this thread.


Look at this thread man. Look at this fucking thread. You have people here talking about "The black agenda" like they're fucking Der Sturmer talking about "The Jew agenda."
I could say the NAACP's political opinions, beliefs, and movements supported by the general black community, or I could say the black agenda. If I was referencing a major Jewish political group that was recognized as representing all Jewsish people, it would be the jewish agenda. Get it right.

It couldn't be because racism - the racism that allows American Citizens and Government to enslave black people - is still at large in this country.
And the insinuation that repeatedly hounding white people for apologies and reparations is going to mend race relations is fucking retarded. Fucking retarded.


evidence?
http://www.detnews.com/2005/metro/0506/30/A02-232926.htm

I can only hope you are smart enough to derive the answer just from glancing at the page name.

Let's say I bump into you in the hall, and I were to apologize. Would that really accomplish anything?

thats a first hand apology. thats just polite. but for someone to apologize for something they werent even a part of is just stupid. especially to a group of people that didnt even have the act the person is apologizing for happen to them.


How is stating that their ancestors were mistreated an "attitude?"

there is an attitude about it. and if you cant see this attitude you either have it. or you dont live anywhere close to the south.

It's a simple bloody fact. I don't see you go around whining to Jews about the Holocaust. "Oh, you Jews, always bitching just cuz your ancestors were slaughtered. You buncha crybabies!"

you also dont see me complaining about how my great great grandfather was mistreated by (insert group of people here). everyone has someone in their family who was mistreated by some other group. should we have an apology fest so we can all live happy again.


LOL YAH CUZ THATS WHAT APOLOGIES ARE FOR! TIME TRAVEL!

:rolleyes:

it was a statement pointing out how rdiculous this whole thing is.

Anybody not weigh in that wanted to?

Slavery ended 144 years ago with the Emancipation Proclamation, why should we have to apologize or give reparations for it 144 years later. It's over, in the past, the people that perpetrated it are long dead, move on already!

Slavery ended 144 years ago with the Emancipation Proclamation, why should we have to apologize or give reparations for it 144 years later.

because it hasn't been done yet. you don't get out of moral responsibility for your past merely by putting things off for awhile.

because it hasn't been done yet. you don't get out of moral responsibility for your past merely by putting things off for awhile.

Moral responsibility of whom? The slavers are dead and the slaves are dead. The children of the slaves are dead. The grandchildren of the slaves are dead. The great-grandchildren of the slaves are dead(I think).

Where does the moral of responsibility end? What's a valid time table for moral responsibility? England killed relatives and ran my grandfathers ass out of the country after the Battle of Culloden. Don't they owe me an apology?

What would an apology accomplish? Healing? Are people all of a sudden going to hold hands and sing? Or is this need simply a setup for a desired reparation lawsuit which have been going around these days?

Do they deserve reparations? No. Sorry. The people that did are long dead. It would be one thing if the money gained could be set up to insure college funds or say getting kids out of gangs. I believe only a fraction if any would go for that.

Slavery should be embraced for what it was and used as a force to improve what you can be rather then an excuse for what you don't have.

There are problems in society. There are problems with the black community. However, we have made gigantic strides for the better.

I remember as a kid, people would stare at a mixed couple. Now, nobody even looks twice (well I might have to take the exclusion of the deep south ;) ).

An apology means nothing unless it's sincere. You can't force an apology so it would accomplish nothing especially if people's attitudes haven't changed.

thats a first hand apology. thats just polite. but for someone to apologize for something they werent even a part of is just stupid.

The State of Virginia was a part and parcel of legalized slavery. So, it's not stupid for the State of Virginia to apologize. In fact, it's just polite.

there is an attitude about it. and if you cant see this attitude you either have it. or you dont live anywhere close to the south.

There isn't an "attitude" about it. And if you insist there is, you are the one with the attitude. Or you live in the south, park your car on your lawn and listen to redneck jerkoff music. ;)

you also dont see me complaining about how my great great grandfather was mistreated by (insert group of people here).

Well, you're a big man. Of course... was your great great grandfather, and everyone else in your family, a slave? Treated like cattle? Bought and sold? Discriminated against because of race, even to this day, by people who insist you're just "whining" and part of your ethnic "agenda?"

everyone has someone in their family who was mistreated by some other group. should we have an apology fest so we can all live happy again.

"It's just polite."

it was a statement pointing out how rdiculous this whole thing is.

All it really pointed out was how ridiculous your statement is.

Slavery ended 144 years ago with the Emancipation Proclamation, why should we have to apologize

Are you the State of Virginia? If not, your comment is irrelevant. Have a good day.

Am I the only one wondering why people in Virginia are wanting to celebrate the abolition of slavery in Texas? Shouldn't they be celebrating when slavery was abolished in Virginia?

yes, i'm sure that is the case with the virginian legislators who proposed this. are you actively trying to sound racist?

Perhaps I don't care for people who try to make excuses as to why their life is so bad. People have plenty of oppurtunities to claw their way out of their situation and yet many choose to sit on their ass and whine about how they are oppressed while doing absoultely nothing to change their situation. Instead they demand to be taken care of with welfare and government housing and think it is only their due. Perhaps some effort can be shown instead of merely blaming others? I am not saying that things are perfect today in society, it simply isn't. But instead of merely blaming other people for your plight you should try to step up and change your life and not expect others to do it for you. I see this as simple fact and you can not get around it. Disagreeing about an issue like this doesn't mean I deserve your accusations.

I really don't see it as worth the legislators time to be spending so much time on this. If they wish to apologize for something their ancestors did, then fine. Do it and move on, it might be a good idea after all. Then there will be one less excuse as to why blacks can't improve their lives and so don't even try. This doesn't cover everyone of course. Don't try to suggest I'm saying that. But the simple fact is that with people like Jesse Jackson who excuse those who choose not to better their lives in any way and simply emphasizes the victim complex that many black have. So yes, I change my mind. Virginia should quickly issue this apology and then perhaps we can truly take a step closer to uniting as a nation and we can actually go forward instead of looking into the past.

To me, people who advocate apologizing in general were raised by good parents. And not in barns. You know, it's just sorta a decent thing to do, as a human being.

But you're right, it's all because black people want to blame Virginia for how their life is bad and they have no self-control and want to make excuses for how they act today. Good job. Same with those pesky Jews.

If Virginia apologized soon after slavery was made illegal then the apology would mean much more then it does now. It is hard to get anything out of it when it was our great-grandparents who did these horrid acts. What did we have to do with them? What do we have to apologize for? We are not responsible for the actions of our ancestors? If our father or grandfather, commits some awful act against someone and never apologized, are we supposed to find their decendents and apologize for him? It is ridiculous.

But I have changed my position as I mentioned in my previous post. If an apology will make people feel better and will allow them to move forward in their lives then Virginia should do it even if I really don't feel it to be neccessary. But people have to do many things they don't agree with now don't they?

If Virginia apologized soon after slavery was made illegal then the apology would mean much more then it does now.

Perhaps so. But, "better late than never."

If our father or grandfather, commits some awful act against someone and never apologized, are we supposed to find their decendents and apologize for him? It is ridiculous.

This isn't about your father or grandfather doing something to another person - some civil dispute - it's about legalized, institutionalized slavery perpetuated by the state.

I remember as a kid, people would stare at a mixed couple. Now, nobody even looks twice (well I might have to take the exclusion of the deep south ;) ).


Here I have to intervene...my sister is part of a mixed couple, and not only do they get "looks," they've both been the targets of some pretty hateful shit, often from complete strangers! Might I add that being biracial often means somebody is forcing you to "choose" what race you are going to be, or made to feel like an outsider in either race.

By the way, I live in a cosmopolitan, diverse town. I've actually heard that Columbia was created FOR biracial couples to live and raise their children without being harassed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia%2C_MD

Perhaps so. But, "better late than never."

I just want them to do it and then move on. But they are politicians of course, will take their time on everything.

This isn't about your father or grandfather doing something to another person - some civil dispute - it's about legalized, institutionalized slavery perpetuated by the state.

It is still an act that was done by people long dead against people also long dead.

Moral responsibility of whom?

in this case, the great state of viginia

An apology means nothing unless it's sincere. You can't force an apology so it would accomplish nothing especially if people's attitudes haven't changed.

where is this forced apology that everyone keeps talking about?

You? Nothing (or at least nothing I know of.)

The Virginia Government? A hell of a lot.

The Virginia Governement pisses everyone off.

That's why everyone is moving to my county for "more peace" and then whine that there's nothing to do here. :mad:

This isn't about your father or grandfather doing something to another person - some civil dispute - it's about legalized, institutionalized slavery perpetuated by the state.
And officially abolished by the state in 1864.

because it hasn't been done yet.
Yeah, it's not like black people are on the Virginia legisla-... wait, nevermind.
Well, I mean, it's not like a black man has ever been elected governor of Virginia... no, wait, one has. Well fuck, what's the point of apologizing? Oh yeah. To give the black agenda a stiffy.

Are you the State of Virginia? If not, your comment is irrelevant. Have a good day.
No one is the state of Virginia, and that is the point.

Here I have to intervene...my sister is part of a mixed couple, and not only do they get "looks," they've both been the targets of some pretty hateful shit, often from complete strangers! Might I add that being biracial often means somebody is forcing you to "choose" what race you are going to be, or made to feel like an outsider in either race.

By the way, I live in a cosmopolitan, diverse town. I've actually heard that Columbia was created FOR biracial couples to live and raise their children without being harassed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia%2C_MD

Hmpf. Ok I guess I can only claim my state then. We have advanced more then you! :p

in this case, the great state of viginia

where is this forced apology that everyone keeps talking about?

The motion is sponsored by somebody. The article is rather lacking in detail. I am assuming somebody has an agenda for pushing this motion.

There are a great many current problems that should be addressed rather then the actions of 150-400 years ago.

Should the colony states apologize for the practice of indentured servitude?

No, I'm talking about the actual guy who said it. Whether he is elected or not, he still happens to be white. I'm not even sure that white people even have a right to argue about this, since we don't know what it's like to be a descendant of slaves.

Oh I am sure your right almost chokes on that lie. So are you trying to tell me not a single bit of the history you studied in school talked to you about the Romans who kept slaves from every part of their empire? Most of whome were caucasian ( that is white for those who do not know). People have had slaves for most of known time, The Egyptians kept them, the Assyrians, The Russians( theirs were white too), the French, The Africans.

So where do you bunch of holier then though people wearing your Blinders so you do not have to see what is going on in the world want the line for apologies to begin? And should we start with the people in Africa who held slaves themselves and/or sold their own people off as aslaves? or start with The Persians or another of the "first" civilizations?

I demand an apology for my ancestors being downtrodden: racism against Italian immigrants, German immigrants, and the Cherokee.