NationStates Jolt Archive

Arabs are Semitic in every way one can be Semitic.

So are Jews. You have been served.

So are Jews. You have been served.European Jews have mingled so much with Europeans that they are considerably less Semitic than Arabs, if at all. Also everyone who has converted to Judaism in Europe is not a Semitic Jew at all, as well as those converts' offspring is not Semitic. As I said, Maltese are more Semitic than Jews.
And since you are a hater of Arabs, you are anti-Semitic.

For some reason, I've seen that coming.... but hey, that's just me

But does that mean the economy of New York would collapse?
How would it affect Maine?

According to this every other state would be ruined just because Bulgaria took over California.

Oh and

Israel stole my wallet.

Bulgaria can at least have Hollywood. I say good riddance.

*returns the wallet to lone alliance*
Sorry, my need for control over people's wealth came over me...


(for those dimwitted one, that was a self joke about the farce once more)

European Jews have mingled so much with Europeans that they are considerably less Semitic than Arabs, if at all. Also everyone who has converted to Judaism in Europe is not a Semitic Jew at all, as well as those converts' offspring is not Semitic. As I said, Maltese are more Semitic than Jews.
And since you are a hater of Arabs, you are anti-Semitic.

I'm a hater of Arabs? Now where on this God's green earth gave you that idea? I do not hate Arabs.

As to Jews, read up on what is and is not consider semitism. One is no more semitic than anyone else. In fact, if you want to see which is indeed older, Israel is more semitic than Arabs as Arabs have only been around since the 5th century. The Eberites (Hebrews) founded the Kingdom of Israel and Judah whom later became Jews. (Info taken from Wikipedia)

I'm a hater of Arabs? Now where on this God's green earth gave you that idea? I do not hate Arabs.

As to Jews, read up on what is and is not consider semitism. One is no more semitic than anyone else. In fact, if you want to see which is indeed older, Israel is more semitic than Arabs as Arabs have only been around since the 5th century. The Eberites (Hebrews) founded the Kingdom of Israel and Judah whom later became Jews. (Info taken from Wikipedia)The Israelites founded Israel and Judah, and they were only a very small subset of Hebrews. The rest of Hebrews on the other hand did not just disappear. They mingled with the other people around and subsequently became what today is called Arabs. You really shouldn't trust Wikipedia that much. In this respect you can even rely on your Bible and your Qur'an. And btw Jews are only a small subset of those Israelites who returned from the Babylonian Captivity during the Persian Era, and those Jews mingled with the people who by then lived in Samaria, Judah, and Philistia. By the time of Yeshua there was actually pretty little that was still Israelite or even Hebrew about Jews (except maybe their religion, but that was also adopted by Samaritans, who nevertheless were not regarded Jews by the Temple authority), they even didn't speak the Hebrew language anymore.

And yes, you are clearly a hater of Arabs.

Cthulhu-Mythos;12065211']The (...)stupidity.


We're all very impressed. Now go cut two holes in a white sheet. Put it on and set it on fire while standing in somebodys garden with arms outstretched.


Actually, it is a militia vs Army fight. A fight where the militia is targeting innocent men, women, and children by blowing them up with suicide bombers.

I am not saying that Israel is not guilty of things, they are, however, who is guilty of a bigger crime?.

Well, strictly speaking the IDF have killed about 5 times the number of civillians the Palestinians have, and the ratio is about 7 to 1 for children under 16...so "bigger crime" would make it Israel. Likewise if we examine the building of the settlements, which are in no way vital for the survival of the Israeli state, we see actual provocation on the part of Israel.


Sometimes yes but most of the time they don't..

A lot of the time the Palestinians don't either. But nobody would know that reading the posts of you and a few others here.


They won those lands in defeating the Arab armies in war. If you remember after every past war nations have lost land, We defeated Spain... We gained some land, Germany was defeated in WW1, they lost land, after WW2, they lost more land. It's spoils of war, if they didn't want to lose that land they shouldn't have invaded...

The Palestinians being evicted from what is now Israel was punishment enough, I would have thought. Even though they were not the one who launched the 1948 war or 1967/73 for that matter. Neither Germany or Spain were dissolved as states, nor were their people left stateless either.

Weren't you supposed to come back to me on a thread on this subject with certain figures?

. . In this respect you can even rely on your Bible and your Qur'an.

My arse I will. Its that kind of fucking stupidity that makes this an even harder conflict to resolve than would otherwise be the case.

The Israelites founded Israel and Judah, and they were only a very small subset of Hebrews. The rest of Hebrews on the other hand did not just disappear. They mingled with the other people around and subsequently became what today is called Arabs. You really shouldn't trust Wikipedia that much. In this respect you can even rely on your Bible and your Qur'an.

Which I have both of. However, one cannot dispute the fact that Jews are a semitic people. As stated earlier however, no one is more semitic than the next semitic group of people. They are all equal.

I suggest a new law... that when we talk about either side, let's name names, so we'll be the enlightened ones and show that that acts of a certain group or an individual doesn't show on the wishes and behavior of the rest...

Which I have both of. However, one cannot dispute the fact that Jews are a semitic people. As stated earlier however, no one is more semitic than the next semitic group of people. They are all equal.You are an anti-Semite nonetheless.
And as I said, Jews had other options, Palestinian Arabs didn't. Now go jump off a tall building, please.

I suggest a new law... that when we talk about either side, let's name names, so we'll be the enlightened ones and show that that acts of a certain group or an individual doesn't show on the wishes and behavior of the rest...I'll gladly name names. So do you have a list of Israeli military personnel? And those in the government who sent them? And those who voted for the government?

You are an anti-Semite nonetheless.

Since you have no basis for that charge, as I have already stated that I do not hate arabs, I am going to have to ask you to apologize.

And as I said, Jews had other options, Palestinian Arabs didn't.

And they wanted their ancestrial homeland. Nothing wrong with that. Of course, they were not the first inhabitants of the area. And no. The Arabs weren't their first either.

Now go jump off a tall building, please.

Ad homen attack.

My arse I will. Its that kind of fucking stupidity that makes this an even harder conflict to resolve than would otherwise be the case.Why? The Bible and Qur'an don't lie about those issues. Only the theology in them is utter crap, as well as are the interpretations they give of history.

Why? The Bible and Qur'an don't lie about those issues. Only the theology in them is utter crap, as well as are the interpretations they give of history.

I guess you do not realize that some of the issues involved in this conflict are religious?

Since you have no basis for that charge, as I have already stated that I do not hate arabs, I am going to have to ask you to apologize. Every statement you make clearly indicates that you couldn't care less about the inhabitants of Palestine. The summary of your whining is that you are a hater of Arabs and thus an anti-Semite.

And they wanted their ancestrial homeland. Nothing wrong with that. Of course, they were not the first inhabitants of the area. And no. The Arabs weren't their first either.
It's ancestral. And as I said, they had already given up their long past homes and settled down in new places. Arabs were there all the time. It's their land. Their homeland.

Ad homen attack.Ad hominem.

I'll gladly name names. So do you have a list of Israeli military personnel? And those in the government who sent them? And those who voted for the government?

Here is your mistake.... those who voted for the government didn't vote for what they got.... actually, most israelis don't care about anything except they're financial status, cause you see, israel is pretty bad socially-economic wise with groups as russia immigrents, middle eastern jews, arabs, etheiopians jews, are pretty much looked down and get no money, so the one who voted for the government you so despise are actually people that don't have anything to lose.
On the other hand, the rich, well based, highly educated people voted for those who aren't in the government.
And you got the idiots... Which is Shas, the ultra orthodox party... blaaa

I'm glad that I voted for Meretz....

I guess you do not realize that some of the issues involved in this conflict are religious?Religion is only used as alibi. It's really about the coming of foreigners to Palestine determined to push the Palestinian Arabs off the soil they were living from since ancient times.

Actually, it is a militia vs Army fight. A fight where the militia is targeting innocent men, women, and children by blowing them up with suicide bombers.

I am not saying that Israel is not guilty of things, they are, however, who is guilty of a bigger crime?

all men and women between the ages of 18 and 45 in Israel are members of the military unless they have valid excuse not to serve, so no they are not innocents but legitimate targets. If the Palestinian militia can never be off duty in their homes which the IDF considers acceptable targets 24/7 regardless if there are children in the homes or not, the same must hold true for Israeli's.

The crimes are equal, Israel's are greater overall because they have annexed an entire population and hold them in virtual slavery/imprisonment. The Palestinian militias are acting in self-defense attempting to drive out an invader. Israel cannot claim to be acting in self-defense when they are the aggressor.

BTW, I had an israeli arab friend (an atheist one) that his family originated in saudi arabia... so, it's pretty much to say that many palestinian arabs have roots which originated from eygpt, saudi arabia and so on...

Every statement you make clearly indicates that you couldn't care less about the inhabitants of Palestine. The summary of your whining is that you are a hater of Arabs and thus an anti-Semite.

You really do not have a clue about me do you? Let me put it this way!

Fact: I support the right of Palestine to have a state
Fact: I support the right of Israel to have a state
Fact: I feel for the refugees who are living in refugee camps because the other nations will not take them in
Fact: I do not feel anything except contempt for those who blow themselves up to kill innocent men, women, and children
Fact: I have condemned the IDF for certain attacks they have committed
Fact: I have condemned the Government of Israel for decisions they have made
Fact: I wish they would dismantle those illegal settlements

There are many more facts but these should suffice for now. If you want to know more about me, feel free to telegram me and I will give you my AIM screen name and we can talk there if you would prefer.

It's ancestral. And as I said, they had already given up their long past homes and settled down in new places. Arabs were there all the time. It's their land. Their homeland.

You do not have a clue that they were expelled were you? Just because they leave does not mean they automaticly given up their rights to the land.

Ad hominem.

sue me.

Religion is only used as alibi. It's really about the coming of foreigners to Palestine determined to push the Palestinian Arabs off the soil they were living from since ancient times.

please, define ancient... cause as much as I recall the land changed hands as well as inhabitents, with the exception of cities such as jerusalem and hebron

Here is your mistake.... those who voted for the government didn't vote for what they got.... actually, most israelis don't care about anything except they're financial status, cause you see, israel is pretty bad socially-economic wise with groups as russia immigrents, middle eastern jews, arabs, etheiopians jews, are pretty much looked down and get no money, so the one who voted for the government you so despise are actually people that don't have anything to lose.
On the other hand, the rich, well based, highly educated people voted for those who aren't in the government.
And you got the idiots... Which is Shas, the ultra orthodox party... blaaa
I'm glad that I voted for Meretz....So what's your point? Do you pay taxes and does your money go into the military?

all men and women between the ages of 18 and 45 in Israel are members of the military unless they have valid excuse not to serve, so no they are not innocents but legitimate targets.

One minor problem with your logic. If they are not in uniform then they cannot be targeted and thus are still classified as civilians. Also, only those who are jews have mandatory service. Arab-Israelis do not have mandatory service.

Fact: I support the right of Palestine to have a stateYes, the hilltops of Samaria. That's what you said in the other thread. No infrastructure, no sufficient water supply. Inside a detention wall.

please, define ancient... cause as much as I recall the land changed hands as well as inhabitents, with the exception of cities such as jerusalem and hebron

Jerusalem has switched hands too. In fact, the Israelites destroyed the city at one point in their history.

Yes, the hilltops of Samaria. That's what you said in the other thread. No infrastructure, no sufficient water supply. Inside a detention wall.

I wasn't talking about the wall now have I? No i did not. I would be happy with the '67 border. I said that before.

I wasn't talking about the wall now have I? No i did not. I would be happy with the '67 border. I said that before.Where?
In the other thread you said, what Barak 'offered' the Palestinians in 2000 were sufficient.

Where?

In another thread. I could have sworn I said it in this thread too.

Where?
In the other thread you said, what Barak 'offered' the Palestinians in 2000 were sufficient.

Which is most of what they wanted. It would have been sufficient. It was the best offer ever given to the Palestinians. I also support the 1967 border too. Either one will be sufficient.

Yes, but to condemn me for doing what I need to do in order to eat in this country, then better start condemn every human, except for those people in the jungle who support themselves....
But again, you judge people for being there as evil and as responsible, well, excuse me for caring for my well being above all other humans on the face of this planet.
It's true that israel made more damage, but it's also true that israel at least tried more than your beloved palestinian government.
And with all due respect, people who come with rhetorics to push the israeli into the ocean, well forget about it. I will criticize my country about many things.
Some of the actions, which were results of sheer stupidity, and not as you so like to put out, evil.
I am biased, cause this is my home, as it is the home of my parents and the home of my grandparents.
My grandfather is buried in this soil, he worked this land.

I do not live in this country out of zionism, I don't believe in this.... I live in israel cause it's my home, the only one I ever knew, the one I made friends in, the one I lost people I know in. The land I dread every day that my father goes out to drive the bus.
A land that for me is home, not out of idealism, not out of greed, but out of the fact that this is where I was raised.

I do not defend my country for it's poor taste choices in actions, I do not support the folly that the government initiated in 67.
But I will defend the indeviduals I know that care for all human beings and will not hurt a fly, I will defend those who are called unjust because they are dimmed evil due to the fact that they pay taxes, I will defend the people I know that were born in israel, that were raised in israel, and that in order to live a life, need to work in the frame of the country, and that is to pay taxes, vote for the lesser of two evil, and to try to best to make a better future for themselves.
I will defend those who only wish to live.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Israel similar to other countries where they undergo a period of national service and then can be called up again in the nature of an emergency? If that's so then only those on active duty are acceptable targets, the rest are civilians. Well trained civilians perhaps but not legitimate military personnel.
Also do the Palestinian militia have barracks or camps where they and those who organise the suicide bombers go or do they just work out of their homes? If they only work out of their homes and other civilian facilities then where else do you suggest the Israelis go when they are trying to track them down?

To be honest the whole affair is a tangled mess with no simple solution and none will come until the rest of the world pulls them apart long enough to hobble together something both sides can live with. Neither side will get all of what they want something they both need to accept.

One minor problem with your logic. If they are not in uniform then they cannot be targeted and thus are still classified as civilians. Also, only those who are jews have mandatory service. Arab-Israelis do not have mandatory service.


silly nitpicking-militia's are always targets so it's ok to target entire families, IDF forces are immune from attack once they change their clothes:rolleyes:

Palestinians in Israel are not considered Israel's because only a Jew can be an Israeli, so they are in fact stateless even though they have lived in the region for centuries. This is the reason they are not in the military, even the few who are (the Druze) are forbidden to live in Jewish only areas.

Yes, but to condemn me for doing what I need to do in order to eat in this country, then better start condemn every human, except for those people in the jungle who support themselves....
But again, you judge people for being there as evil and as responsible, well, excuse me for caring for my well being above all other humans on the face of this planet.
It's true that israel made more damage, but it's also true that israel at least tried more than your beloved palestinian government.
And with all due respect, people who come with rhetorics to push the israeli into the ocean, well forget about it. I will criticize my country about many things.
Some of the actions, which were results of sheer stupidity, and not as you so like to put out, evil.
I am biased, cause this is my home, as it is the home of my parents and the home of my grandparents.
My grandfather is buried in this soil, he worked this land.

I do not live in this country out of zionism, I don't believe in this.... I live in israel cause it's my home, the only one I ever knew, the one I made friends in, the one I lost people I know in. The land I dread every day that my father goes out to drive the bus.
A land that for me is home, not out of idealism, not out of greed, but out of the fact that this is where I was raised.

I do not defend my country for it's poor taste choices in actions, I do not support the folly that the government initiated in 67.
But I will defend the indeviduals I know that care for all human beings and will not hurt a fly, I will defend those who are called unjust because they are dimmed evil due to the fact that they pay taxes, I will defend the people I know that were born in israel, that were raised in israel, and that in order to live a life, need to work in the frame of the country, and that is to pay taxes, vote for the lesser of two evil, and to try to best to make a better future for themselves.
I will defend those who only wish to live.But by living there you are actively pushing those aside who used to live there and have called it home before (and still do). You know, the only one they ever knew, the one they made friends in, the one they lost people they knew in. The homeland soil they used to till and that used to feed them. But by living there you consolidate what the Zionists set out for, the creation of a state in a foreign land, regardless of its already present inhabitants.

silly nitpicking-militia's are always targets so it's ok to target entire families, IDF forces are immune from attack once they change their clothes:rolleyes:

Welcome to the wonderful world of International Law where you can't target people if they are not wearing a uniform of your nation's military. Also, the terror groups Hamas and Al Aqsa Martyers Brigade and Hezbollah do not wear emblems depicting that they are part of a militia. That's also a violation of International Law too for all militias must have emblems if they want to be treated in accordance with the POW conventions.

Palestinians in Israel are not considered Israel's because only a Jew can be an Israeli, so they are in fact stateless even though they have lived in the region for centuries.

Wrong again. Even Arabs who live in Israel are Israelis.

This is the reason they are not in the military, even the few who are (the Druze) are forbidden to live in Jewish only areas.

Actually, there are several arabs who serve in the IDF. Thanks for trying though.

But by living there you are actively pushing those aside who used to live there and have called it home before (and still do). You know, the only one they ever knew, the one they made friends in, the one they lost people they knew in. The homeland soil they used to till and that used to feed them. But by living there you consolidate what the Zionists set out for, the creation of a state in a foreign land, regardless of its already present inhabitants.

Well, it's sad, I know, but I can't change history.... if you can, do so, let's see how it'll develop, but I am here now, and I want to stay a live... so sorry for being so.... human

In another thread. I could have sworn I said it in this thread too.

Did you ever get around to reading this (http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1703245,00.html) the last time I posted it?

It is most illuminating as to the treatment of Arab-Israelis and Palestinians by the Israeli government....:cool:

Did you ever get around to reading this (http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1703245,00.html) the last time I posted it?

Yes I read most of it.

It is most illuminating as to the treatment of Arab-Israelis and Palestinians by the Israeli government....:cool:

I'm surprised it did not talk about how the Palestinians are keeping themselves down as well. Or how the Arabs are not doing anything to get them their own state. It is pretty one sided article in reality.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Israel similar to other countries where they undergo a period of national service and then can be called up again in the nature of an emergency? If that's so then only those on active duty are acceptable targets, the rest are civilians. Well trained civilians perhaps but not legitimate military personnel.
Also do the Palestinian militia have barracks or camps where they and those who organise the suicide bombers go or do they just work out of their homes? If they only work out of their homes and other civilian facilities then where else do you suggest the Israelis go when they are trying to track them down?

To be honest the whole affair is a tangled mess with no simple solution and none will come until the rest of the world pulls them apart long enough to hobble together something both sides can live with. Neither side will get all of what they want something they both need to accept.
I understand what you're saying but from my understanding military service is expected every year. The militias could claim the same too, when they go home for the day they are off duty and a once again a civilian.
How do you expect the Palestinians to have a barracks? they are not allowed to have a military, they are shot for throwing stones do you expect them to train in full view?

I understand what you're saying but from my understanding military service is expected every year. The militias could claim the same too, when they go home for the day they are off duty and a once again a civilian.
How do you expect the Palestinians to have a barracks? they are not allowed to have a military, they are shot for throwing stones do you expect them to train in full view?

You understood wrong.... guys do 3 years (with the exception of officers and non coms) girls do 2 years.
many guys are put in reserves, that in ideal time they are taken once a year for refreshing courses, but no money, so you're not taken...
And people... take it out of your mind that all the guys in the army are fighters.... the majority are logistics and technicians

Welcome to the wonderful world of International Law where you can't target people if they are not wearing a uniform of your nation's military. Also, the terror groups Hamas and Al Aqsa Martyers Brigade and Hezbollah do not wear emblems depicting that they are part of a militia. That's also a violation of International Law too for all militias must have emblems if they want to be treated in accordance with the POW conventions.



Nice one now hiding behind the Geneva Convention when it suits you:rolleyes: the GC has no authority when it comes human rights or annexation when it is applied to Israel. Sweet how that works:)

Nice one now hiding behind the Geneva Convention when it suits you:rolleyes: the GC has no authority when it comes human rights or annexation when it is applied to Israel. Sweet how that works:)

And why does it not apply? Because they are Israeli? They apply to everyone.

Well, it's sad, I know, but I can't change history.... if you can, do so, let's see how it'll develop, but I am here now, and I want to stay a live... so sorry for being so.... humanYou can't change history, but you can correct it, or at least try to heal some very deep wounds you are causing.

You can't change history, but you can correct it, or at least try to heal some very deep wounds you are causing.

And who'll help heal the wounds that the extremists are causing to the Israelis?

Wrong again. Even Arabs who live in Israel are Israelis.


no I'm not-Israel supreme court overruled an attempt to separate being Jewish from Israeli citizenship, if you aren't a Jew you cannot be Israeli regardless if you live in Israeli. You cannot become an Israeli without first becoming a Jew.

Not really but this situation is too complex for any of the views I've seen on it, my main point is that there are Israeli barracks and training facilities and these are where the Palestinian militia should be attacking. Instead they seem to go for soft targets thats not war it's pure terrorism.

On the Israeli side they have no real targets beyond the homes and civilian areas and I honestly doubt any of them take pleasure in destroying the homes or killing innocents but they are willing to do what they have to, to survive and protect their people. Just as the Palestinians feel they have to there are no good guys or bad guys in this situation just scared people who want to make sure their families and loved ones are safe.

The one exception to what I said there is suicide bombers and those who promote and fund them. I despise suicide bombers more than normal bombers as having conveniently killed themselves they don't have to face the human cost of their actions and that is cowardice on a grand scale.

no I'm not-Israel supreme court overruled an attempt to separate being Jewish from Israeli citizenship, if you aren't a Jew you cannot be Israeli regardless if you live in Israeli. You cannot become an Israeli without first becoming a Jew.

And yet there is an Arab-Israeli on the Supreme Court, Arab-Israelis in the Knesset, and Arab-Israelis in the IDF.

And now show me the case that cites what you are stating.

And who'll help heal the wounds that the extremists are causing to the Israelis?Extremists? Yes, they want their home back extremely. Anti-Semite.

I'm surprised it did not talk about how the Palestinians are keeping themselves down as well. Or how the Arabs are not doing anything to get them their own state. It is pretty one sided article in reality.

Sorry? How the Arabs are not doing anything to get them their own state? What does that mean? Are you sayin that the Arab-Israelis who want to live in Israel, but in an Israel where they have the same rights as Jewish-Israelis, should be looking for another country?

Of course factions within Palestine aren't helping. The election of Hamas was a horrible consequence of disillusionment in Palestine and the actions of the Israeli government in trying to dissuade/stop Palestinians from voting.

I don't see it as a one-sided article; rather it discusses the problems within the current conflict from a perspective of what the Israel government is doing badly, rather than the boring old "Palestine hate Jews and are terrorists" or "Israel are hatefull Jews who want to kill all Muslims".

Just a thought: I would assume that anyone with an opinion on this conflict wants peace; who do you think is more wrong out of the two parties? You seem to ally more blame with the Palestinians who resort to Terrorism more than the Israeli Government, is that a fair assumption?

You can't change history, but you can correct it, or at least try to heal some very deep wounds you are causing.

For of all, all the collective accusing is idiotic.
Second, Let them have the gaza strip and the west bank.
But Gush dan, Haifa and the kerayot, the galil, the negev, the coastal region from ashqelon to the north are israelis...
If they want them, tough

Not really but this situation is too complex for any of the views I've seen on it, my main point is that there are Israeli barracks and training facilities and these are where the Palestinian militia should be attacking. Instead they seem to go for soft targets thats not war it's pure terrorism.

On the Israeli side they have no real targets beyond the homes and civilian areas and I honestly doubt any of them take pleasure in destroying the homes or killing innocents but they are willing to do what they have to, to survive and protect their people. Just as the Palestinians feel they have to there are no good guys or bad guys in this situation just scared people who want to make sure their families and loved ones are safe.

The one exception to what I said there is suicide bombers and those who promote and fund them. I despise suicide bombers more than normal bombers as having conveniently killed themselves they don't have to face the human cost of their actions and that is cowardice on a grand scale.I despise 'normal' bombers more than suicide bombers. Suicide bombers sacrifice themselves up while 'normal' bombers just deal death at a distance.

Extremists? Yes, they want their home back extremely. Anti-Semite.

You like to toss that term around so much, it does not affect me for I know that I am not an Anti-Semite. I already told you that I do not hate Arabs and that I want a state for the palestinians. I told you what I like and dislike about the region. Not my fault that you cannot comprehend that.

I despise 'normal' bombers more than suicide bombers. Suicide bombers sacrifice themselves up while 'normal' bombers just deal death at a distance.

And Suicide bombers do it up close and personal to people who have done them no harm. If it was against the IDF then maybe I could say something more positive about that. Until that happens however....

For of all, all the collective accusing is idiotic.
Second, Let them have the gaza strip and the west bank.
But Gush dan, Haifa and the kerayot, the galil, the negev, the coastal region from ashqelon to the north are israelis...
If they want them, toughDo you know the Palestinian Arabs who used to live where you live now?

I despise 'normal' bombers more than suicide bombers. Suicide bombers sacrifice themselves up while 'normal' bombers just deal death at a distance.

Romanticizing a concept of the hero who put his life on the line...

I despise 'normal' bombers more than suicide bombers. Suicide bombers sacrifice themselves up while 'normal' bombers just deal death at a distance.

Anyone who murders innocent civilians is bad, regardless of whether they die in the attempt or not.

Sorry? How the Arabs are not doing anything to get them their own state?

Take a look at what they have done to assist in giving the Palestinians their own state. Basicly Nothing.

Do you know the Palestinian Arabs who used to live where you live now?

I know, their problem, I'm here now, my home is here now, and basically I'm not going to give up on that, as much as unjust as you think it is...
You don't see the things from the lives of the people, you see it from you ivory tower, sitted on a couch.
You know what, let's get to the point, ask me to die... that's easier.

Anyone who murders innocent civilians is bad, regardless of whether they die in the attempt or not.

I have to agree.

Take a look at what they have done to assist in giving the Palestinians their own state. Basicly Nothing.

They would much rather use the Palestinians as pawns against Israel, the Palestinians have been mistreated by every side imaginable.

Take a look at what they have done to assist in giving the Palestinians their own state. Basicly Nothing.What do you want them do? Send their military to finally free the Palestinians from Israeli occupation?

You are an anti-Semite nonetheless.
And as I said, Jews had other options, Palestinian Arabs didn't. Now go jump off a tall building, please.

Umm... you are a twit. :rolleyes: The Palestinians had the option of um... maybe ALL of the ARAB countries that surround Israel. Furthermore, the Jews had tried out hose other options (leaving Israel after being FORCED out), which resulted in years of prejudice, discrimination, and finally mass-genocide. So cram your crap about unfairness back down your throat. Also stop throwing around "Arab-hater" so often. I've read the guys posts, he isn't an arab hater.

They would much rather use the Palestinians as pawns against Israel, the Palestinians have been mistreated by every side imaginable.

I agree with you.

Palestinians in Israel are not considered Israel's because only a Jew can be an Israeli, so they are in fact stateless even though they have lived in the region for centuries. This is the reason they are not in the military, even the few who are (the Druze) are forbidden to live in Jewish only areas.

Only partially true. Yes Arab-Israelis face massive problems in their lives, conflict in their allegiance and there are areas that Arab-Israelis are not allowed to live in - note the article comparing Israel with Apartheid-South Africa that I posted - but of course an Arab can be an Israeli. There are more than a million Arabs in Israel, of whom above 80% are Sunni Muslim and very few Druze. There are also many Christian Arabs and non-Arab Christian Israelis.

Anyone who murders innocent civilians is bad, regardless of whether they die in the attempt or not.Just because someone is civilian doesn't make him/her innocent. It has been posted (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12065637#post12065637) that all Israelis between 18 and 45 are in fact members of the military. And all are responsible for who governs the land and how. After all Israel claims to be democratic.

What do you want them do? Send their military to finally free the Palestinians from Israeli occupation?

yeah and who has nukes and the entire US arsenal at it's disposal.

What do you want them do?

To tell the extremists to stop blowing up civilians for it is damaging their cause.

Send their military to finally free the Palestinians from Israeli occupation?

The arab world has sent in their military several times. Only in the Yom Kipper War did they come close to succeeding. However, they lost that war too. Do you want the Arab World to lose yet another war?

Just because someone is civilian doesn't make him/her innocent. It has been posted (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12065637#post12065637) that all Israelis between 18 and 45 are in fact members of the military. And all are responsible for who governs the land and how.

That would mean the the Palestinians are also responsible and all adults are in fact not innocent.

Just because someone is civilian doesn't make him/her innocent. It has been posted (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12065637#post12065637) that all Israelis between 18 and 45 are in fact members of the military. And all are responsible for who governs the land and how.

Only the Jews have mandatory service. The Arab-Israelis do not have said service. They can volunteer for said service however and thousands have.

To tell the extremists to stop blowing up civilians for it is damaging their cause.



The arab world has sent in their military several times. Only in the Yom Kipper War did they come close to succeeding. However, they lost that war too. Do you want the Arab World to lose yet another war?

Yom kipur war wasn't about saving the palestinians, it was about saving face

Just because someone is civilian doesn't make him/her innocent. It has been posted (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12065637#post12065637) that all Israelis between 18 and 45 are in fact members of the military. And all are responsible for who governs the land and how.

no, Israelis are required to serve in the military for 3 years, before and after that they are civilians and thus should not be brought to harm.

Yom kipur war wasn't about saving the palestinians, it was about saving face

I know that but I was pointing out that the Arabs have sent in their armies in the past and lost.

Yom kipur war wasn't about saving the palestinians, it was about saving face

Yes it would finally give the US an excuse to blow up the entire Middle East with nukes and death everywhere!!@! *foams at the mouth* no actually. Another war on Israel would be a very, very bad idea.

I have to agree.
Thirded.
Take a look at what they have done to assist in giving the Palestinians their own state. Basicly Nothing.

Many Arab-Israelis support the Israeli state and don't believe in a two state system or even an autonomous Palestine.

As to those who do want a Palestinian state along with an Israeli state what do you suggest they actually do? You think they should...what exactely? Resort to the tactics that you yourself describe as despicable? They also face their own battles within Israel to gain equality from the interior.

Umm... you are a twit. :rolleyes: The Palestinians had the option of um... maybe ALL of the ARAB countries that surround Israel.

I'm not condoning terrorism as he is but this is not a valid point. Why should the Palestinians (nomadic Arabs) who lived in the region of Palestine/Israel have to move to another Arab country as refugees if they do not want to? Would you happily go to a neighbouring country if you were forced from your own land?

no, Israelis are required to serve in the military for 3 years, before and after that they are civilians and thus should not be brought to harm.So Socialist Pyrates is a liar?
And I really see no dividing line between the military and 'civilians'. Military only serve the civilians. The military is only the gun in the hands of the civilians.
I find it strange how Israelis don't want to be responsible for the Palestinians' plight, while their state and their presence in the region is what is the very cause for that.

So Socialist Pyrates is a liar?
And I really see no dividing line between the military and 'civilians'. Military only serve the civilians. The military is only the gun in the hands of the civilians.

Then by that logic, then you have to say the samething about the terrorists and Palestinian civilians.

Thirded.


Many Arab-Israelis support the Israeli state and don't believe in a two state system or even an autonomous Palestine.

As to those who do want a Palestinian state along with an Israeli state what do you suggest they actually do? You think they should...what exactely? Resort to the tactics that you yourself describe as despicable? They also face their own battles within Israel to gain equality from the interior.



I'm not condoning terrorism as he is but this is not a valid point. Why should the Palestinians (nomadic Arabs) who lived in the region of Palestine/Israel have to move to another Arab country as refugees if they do not want to? Would you happily go to a neighbouring country if you were forced from your own land?

First off, I fourth that.

Secondly, I would suggest not electing violent leaders (Hamas) who seek to basically destroy Israel. If the Palestinian government would simply stop suicide bombers from blowing up civilians, perhaps talks could actually commence. Crying out for Israel to pack up and leave is childish and make the Palestinians look like illegitimate fools.

And finally, I'm not saying that they should have to. What I am saying is that suggesting that the Palestinians have nowhere else to turn, and therefore are totally legitimized in killing innocents is ridiculous. I support a Palestinian state. And in response to your question. I would not, but I would also refrain from killing innocent people to get my country back.

So Socialist Pyrates is a liar?
And I really see no dividing line between the military and 'civilians'. Military only serve the civilians. The military is only the gun in the hands of the civilians.


So I guess its alright for Israel to carpet-bomb Palestine and Lebanon, eh? I love how far you'll bend over backwards to try to justify killing Israelis.

So I guess its alright for Israel to carpet-bomb Palestine and Lebanon, eh? I love how far you'll bend over backwards to try to justify killing Israelis.

And he bemoans when Israel responds to the killing of said Israelis.

Do you know the Palestinian Arabs who used to live where you live now?

And the people who lived there are now long dead. Big whoop.

Secondly, I would suggest not electing violent leaders (Hamas) who seek to basically destroy Israel. If the Palestinian government would simply stop suicide bombers from blowing up civilians, perhaps talks could actually commence. Crying out for Israel to pack up and leave is childish and make the Palestinians look like illegitimate fools.

The point I made to AG was about Arab-Israelis not about Palestinians. As to your point, however, 430,000 people voted for Hamas out of 990,000 people who voted in the election so don't dismiss all Palestinians as baying for Israeli blood. Secondly, I'd like you to put yourself in a Palestinian's position: you have not had electricity for a month, the running water is sporadic at best, the Israeli army constantly peform spot-checks and stop-and-searches with no legal reason for it, your uncle's house was bulldozed as a part of expansion of Settlements in the West Bank and his whole family now live with you, and, as a student, to get to University everyday you have to go through the humiliation/fear of being searched, stripped and bullied four times a day as you go through the two army-controlled checkpoints just to get to class....your life, to put it bluntly is shit. A group tells you who to blame and that they can be got rid of...you vote for them.

I understand it. I will never condone Hamas but I will never condemn your average Palestinian for choosing them in a free and democratic fashion.

UB keeps going on about how the palestinians used to have the land. Historically there are so many examples of people being driven off their land for newcomers that I don't want to assign a number, in rare cases they were able to drive off the newcomers but most of the time that didn't happen so they adapted. They found new places to live, they worked around the newcomers and interbred until they were part of the same populace or they learned to play the game. They waited patiently until they were able to gain popular support and used the laws that bound the newcomers to force them to give up some of their land or to make reparations in other ways. As in the case of the Native Americans and Aborigines.

Now in my homeland there was a period from roughly 1750-1850 where simple farmers who had tended their land for generation upon generation were driven off by landlords so that the land could be used for the more profitable act of raising sheep now some of them fought and were burned out of home. But we're a hardy people and we adapt, some moved in to the cities, others took up work in other areas for a time but most emigrated to places like America where even there they and their descendants try to keep their homeland alive in their hearts.

The Palestinians sadly can't seem to face the current reality that they have to adapt, as painful as it may be. They can't go on the way they have been and achieve any real result, until they realise that and the other Arab nations stop meddling, no real meaningful solution can be found.

http://heritage.scotsman.com/timelines.cfm?cid=1&id=41642005 because I honestly don't expect anyone to know of the Highland Clearances.

Well, I guess this describes the problem at hand...

http://www.ortzion.org/Israel_tiny.jpg

Well, I guess this describes the problem at hand...

http://www.ortzion.org/Israel_tiny.jpg

Iran, Pakistan, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Sudan, Turkey, Tajikstan, Azerbaijan, and Kyrgyzstan do not have majority Arab population. Educate yourself.

bump

UB keeps going on about how the palestinians used to have the land. Historically there are so many examples of people being driven off their land for newcomers that I don't want to assign a number, in rare cases they were able to drive off the newcomers but most of the time that didn't happen so they adapted. They found new places to live, they worked around the newcomers and interbred until they were part of the same populace or they learned to play the game. They waited patiently until they were able to gain popular support and used the laws that bound the newcomers to force them to give up some of their land or to make reparations in other ways. As in the case of the Native Americans and Aborigines.

Now in my homeland there was a period from roughly 1750-1850 where simple farmers who had tended their land for generation upon generation were driven off by landlords so that the land could be used for the more profitable act of raising sheep now some of them fought and were burned out of home. But we're a hardy people and we adapt, some moved in to the cities, others took up work in other areas for a time but most emigrated to places like America where even there they and their descendants try to keep their homeland alive in their hearts.



In the case of the aborigines and native title, it does SFA. It's a purely smbolic load of bullshit designed to mask the real issues in aboriginal Australia.

As for historical examples, one would hope that the world had learned something about human rights and all that jazz in the past 200 years. I guess not.

The Palestinians should not have to adapt to a foreign power invading their land, destroying their homes and killing their people. They should fight back with everything they have.

EDIT: I am not advocating the destruction of the state of Israel. That is an impossibility. I am strongly for a two-state solution with the 1967 borders. I am merely stating that the Palestinians have a right to fight back against what to them is an agressor. The defence by Israel of settlements outside Israel's borders are to me at least a sign of agression.

When Arab schoolchildren are told to study the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion," no wonder they have such hate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion#Contemporary_usage_and_popularity
This is just sick.

Oh, and let's not forget the blood libel that was shown on Lebanese TV a couple of years ago. They had a TV series where they demonstrated how Jews kill Gentiles for blood to make Matzah.

---------------------------------------------

The hate comes from before the Occupation or even 1947's partition.

Widespread violence began shortly after WWI when the Mufti became a figurehead. He encouraged thousands of Palestinians to attack Kibbutzim and other Jews who were living on the land legally having purchased it from Arab land owners. Of course UB, Soviestan, and some other anti-semites on this board ignore that fact. It gets in the way of the lies they have been brainwahsed to believe.

Iran, Pakistan, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Sudan, Turkey, Tajikstan, Azerbaijan, and Kyrgyzstan do not have majority Arab population. Educate yourself.
This better?
Revised (http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8738/israeltinyrevisedde7.png)