NationStates Jolt Archive

Yes, but that's your job. My job is to help people with their financial planning, I can't do that if they can't speak English, I am not able to turn them down either because of professional groups that I am a member of.

No, it's not my job. I work for an national newspaper and I'm the press manager of a city news radio. I am demanded to speak spanish only, as the news have a spanish speaking target. I am one of the two people working in my main job that speak english. I do everything else out of a collaboration spirit. Saying an international reporter "Spanish only, please, or go on your own" is not the polite thing to do, yet it is not compulsory to speak english around here to be a journalist.

I fully support that said inmigrants learn english, but I also think that most of you people working in jobs like yours learn spanish, at least a bit. Knowledge is not a hindrance, it doesn't weight a bit.

I even offer help if you ever want to improve your spanish skills.

A little bit of irony to lighen up your day. My friend is a third generation mexican and he is trying to learn spanish.

I attempted to contact somebody regarding their membership with my company: wife of member answers phone, I ask for Mr. Whoever, wife answers, "No speak English" and hung up.

um, I am fluent in english and so is everybody in my family...and they always have been (except a few who probably spoke Welsh and Scots about 400 years ago...they probably spoke english as a second language anyway) - but I occasionally will respond "no speak english" to people who ask for family members by their formal name. anybody who asks for my father by "william" (his name only on birth certificate and credit cards) and not "doug" is promptly hung up on. it has more to do with the fact you aren't a friend than anything, I'm guessing. something tells me if you were his kid's teacher the woman would speak english to you. as it is, it's just a convienient excuse.

either way, I look foreward to the day when everybody in the US speaks Spanglish :p we're an immegrant nation. unless you're talking native american, there isn't anything in this country worthwhile that hasn't been imported. hot-dogs, hamburgers, clothing, the statue of liberty for fucks sake, america doesn't have a unified culture, it has a patchwork. if you think otherwise tell it to the people who have been speaking german in pennsylvania for the last 300 years.

A little bit of irony to lighen up your day. My friend is a third generation mexican and he is trying to learn spanish.

ahaha - mine too. wonderful isn't it?

Sure. If I were to conduct my business in Mexico, I wouldn't find it unreasonable that they request I do so in Spanish. They can speak Spanish if they like here, but I don't think that the government should bend over backwards to accomidate them.

No, it's not my job. I work for an national newspaper and I'm the press manager of a city news radio. I am demanded to speak spanish only, as the news have a spanish speaking target. I am one of the two people working in my main job that speak english. I do everything else out of a collaboration spirit. Saying an international reporter "Spanish only, please, or go on your own" is not the polite thing to do, yet it is not compulsory to speak english around here to be a journalist.

I fully support that said inmigrants learn english, but I also think that most of you people working in jobs like yours learn spanish, at least a bit. Knowledge is not a hindrance, it doesn't weight a bit.

I even offer help if you ever want to improve your spanish skills.
I know quite a bit of Spanish, my problem is that to explain to them the details in a way they understand it, I am going to have to learn a lot more. It's like if I were their doctor, I know enough to find out their symptoms, and I could probably diagnose them, but to explain to them exactly why they are sick and to have to explain the treatment in a way that they will understand and not end up killing themselves........I just can't.

My worry goes further than that though, further than the "I could get sued, and jailed because they don't understand me when I try to help them" it goes to the fact that a lot of people are getting screwed over because they DON'T speak/read/understand English. You can't take your 6 year old everywhere with you, at some point you are going to have to grow up and go to do business by yourself.

My worry goes further than that though, further than the "I could get sued, and jailed because they don't understand me when I try to help them" it goes to the fact that a lot of people are getting screwed over because they DON'T speak/read/understand English. You can't take your 6 year old everywhere with you, at some point you are going to have to grow up and go to do business by yourself.
So what do they do until they learn that level of English? I've been in Japan three years and have studied Japanese a lot, there's not way in hell I could go into a bank and request financial assistance without the aid of my wife.

As long as someone in your household in functional in the language that should be sufficient.

Canada's immigration rules actually make it quite difficult for non-refugee immigrants to come here without at least passing familiarity with either English or French.

um, I am fluent in english and so is everybody in my family...and they always have been (except a few who probably spoke Welsh and Scots about 400 years ago...they probably spoke english as a second language anyway) - but I occasionally will respond "no speak english" to people who ask for family members by their formal name. anybody who asks for my father by "william" (his name only on birth certificate and credit cards) and not "doug" is promptly hung up on. it has more to do with the fact you aren't a friend than anything, I'm guessing. something tells me if you were his kid's teacher the woman would speak english to you. as it is, it's just a convienient excuse.

either way, I look foreward to the day when everybody in the US speaks Spanglish :p we're an immegrant nation. unless you're talking native american, there isn't anything in this country worthwhile that hasn't been imported. hot-dogs, hamburgers, clothing, the statue of liberty for fucks sake, america doesn't have a unified culture, it has a patchwork. if you think otherwise tell it to the people who have been speaking german in pennsylvania for the last 300 years.

I not only mentioned him by his first name, which you are quite possibly correct in him have a more common name amongst family and friends, but I also identified the name of my company which is pretty understandable and anybody with a half a brain could understand that it's regarding helping disabled boaters.

I'm really glad I did this topic. I do plan on taking some Spanish classes, however, it is NOT going to be my Priority. I have other priorities first. As for the Spanish speaking I'll be encountering here on out, I'll be less stressed if they refuse to speak to me in English regarding their boat they just purchased and signed up for an annual membership to cover their asses if something unforeseen happens on the water. If we end up with wrong information, I'll do my best to correct it. Worse case scenario being if they broke down and they can't prove they have a membership due to them being ignoranant on not wanting to talk to me.......I have no problems charging them per hour from the time our captain leaves his dock to the time he returns to his dock @ $200/hr. It'll be an expensive lesson learned on their part. I have no problems charging people for services rendered. Oh, credit card # up front or no service. :D

Of course they should.

I'll speak Slovak in my own 'hood, but I don't expect bi-lingual signs, documents or businesses to cater to me. I learned English... any one else can, too.

Why can't I hit "3" (or whatever) and get the phone menu in my language? :D

a language is just a language. it's how we communicate.. whether they choose to speak english or spanish is up to them.

now when it comes to being at like a job or at school or at a resturant, yes, i think people should at least know some english to get them around. but it's not like they should be forced to.

This has probably already been said, but...

I think that this country (i.e. the US) should become multi-lingual. What's the problem with actually teaching our populace to know more than one language?? Spanish is actually fun to speak. So is French (those are the two majors that I know due to my career as a chef, but don't ask me to write is those languages).

This has probably already been said, but...

I think that this country (i.e. the US) should become multi-lingual. What's the problem with actually teaching our populace to know more than one language?? Spanish is actually fun to speak. So is French (those are the two majors that I know due to my career as a chef, but don't ask me to write is those languages).

Now I know I have been out of HS for more than a decade but I do believe the schools do offer elective classes for different languages. It's optional. Not mandatory and that's the way it should be.

Now I know I have been out of HS for more than a decade but I do believe the schools do offer elective classes for different languages. It's optional. Not mandatory and that's the way it should be.

Freedom is one thing, but bigotry is another. The fact that this has become a "wedge" issue demonstrates that this country has a long way to go. More people from other countries know english than do USians know foriegn languages. It's all about communication, why not learn to communicate with the world?

Freedom is one thing, but bigotry is another. The fact that this has become a "wedge" issue demonstrates that this country has a long way to go. More people from other countries know english than do USians know foriegn languages. It's all about communication, why not learn to communicate with the world?

Sorry, I disagree on it being bigotry because most Americans only know the one language which just happens to be the most popular language in the entire world.

Are you claiming that the majority of Americans who only know English are all bigots? That's what I got out of your post. I definately disagree with that.

Also, NSG is far from having the majority here being bigots. So then why does the poll's majority say Yes. I'll tell you why because it's common sense, it has to do with respect and has a lot to do with decency.

They should learn English. If I move to Sweden, I will learn Swedish, if I move to Austria, I will try to learn German. It seems pretty simple to me.

English must be learnt as a fixed language for people to interact with each other. Like it is french for France and japanese for Japan. There must be a fixed language so everyone in that particular area, region or country can understand each other

They should learn English. If I move to Sweden, I will learn Swedish, if I move to Austria, I will try to learn German. It seems pretty simple to me.
I'm just wondering how people seem to have missed the point that they are learning.

Jesh, the US gets 3 million new immigrants a year. ESL classes have waiting lists in Nevada and I know California is currently head hunting ESL teachers from other states in an attempt to keep up with demand (The only teachers who are wanted more are special education teachers). And as pointed out, by the third generation, immigrants have lost their native tounge compleatly.

So maybe I should flip the question around and ask where people seem to be getting the idea that immigrants are NOT making an effort to learn English?

Because I have a feeling that this is coming from not understanding how language learning takes place or fully being cognant of just how much knowledge a 'simple' conversation actually needs (and how rare such conversations are in daily life).

(Poll coming soon)

Should the spanish speaking people and citizens of the United States learn or atleast show an effort of learning the English language?

English is America's Primary Language.

yeah and Hindi is India's primary language. I was no less an Indian when I did not know hindi than I am now when I know hindi (I learned hindi when I was 21).

There must be a fixed language so everyone in that particular area, region or country can understand each other

Why?

India as 28 official languages. I do not understand Assamese or Punjabi. But Assamese and Punjabis are every bit Indian as I am.

(Poll coming soon)

Should the spanish speaking people and citizens of the United States learn or atleast show an effort of learning the English language?

English is America's Primary Language. The reason I'm having a poll is because this is the 2nd time in less than a weeks time I attempted to contact somebody regarding their membership with my company: wife of member answers phone, I ask for Mr. Whoever, wife answers, "No speak English" and hung up. This really aggravates the hell out of me. I feel that any foreigner that moves to America should have some sort of agreement that they will show an effort to learn the Primary Language.

I'm getting pretty tired of businesses and others (including our Government) who continually caters to the non-English speaking citizens in America.

Why don't people moving to America want to learn the primary language. Some people are also talking about adding to our road signs to make them English and Spanish. Which brings another truth about this situation regarding safety issues on our roads and furthers my wanting of some sort of mandate and agreement that people will show some sort of effort to learn the English language. I'm not talking about it having to be fluent but atleast the basics.

I don't speak English to telemarketers either.

I'm just wondering how people seem to have missed the point that they are learning.

Jesh, the US gets 3 million new immigrants a year. ESL classes have waiting lists in Nevada and I know California is currently head hunting ESL teachers from other states in an attempt to keep up with demand (The only teachers who are wanted more are special education teachers). And as pointed out, by the third generation, immigrants have lost their native tounge compleatly.

So maybe I should flip the question around and ask where people seem to be getting the idea that immigrants are NOT making an effort to learn English?

Because I have a feeling that this is coming from not understanding how language learning takes place or fully being cognant of just how much knowledge a 'simple' conversation actually needs (and how rare such conversations are in daily life).

I never said they weren't. However, the question was "should immigrants learn English." My answer was yes.

I never said they weren't. However, the question was "should immigrants learn English." My answer was yes.
I wasn't targeting you in particular, but rather the answer as given in the whole of the thread. Since they are learning, the question becomes rather meaningless. It's like asking, "Don't you agree that humans should breathe?"

Yes you are right, its about noumbers. And so far most people in USA no matter what their descent speak english. You will see that black people don't demand swahili, germans don't go speaking german at you when they work in Burger King and polish don't wish you Dzien Dobry when you enter their shop. They speak english.
People need to understand eachother. English is most widespread language in the world and (no matter what your english teacher told you) its one of simplest to learn. (try learning french or chinese you'll see what I mean).
English is only my third language and I can't say it was hard to learn. Its EVERYWHERE even if you are NOT living in usa. movies are on it, series are on it, internet mostly uses it, and best books are first printed in english.
So yes, spanish speaking immigrants should learn english. When you immigrate to a country, you should atleast respect it THAT much.

yes yes of course
that does not mean its going to happen though does it?
If 30% pf the population becomes spanish speaking then what? As the USA has no official language would not spanish have to become a common language along with english?
IF the spanish speaking population reaches 30% you don't think hollywood is going to start bringing films out where the original version is in spanish?
What then?

English is the language of the world, without it you can't do much outside your own country.

English is the language of the world, without it you can't do much outside your own country.

and you can't do much with it. best to learn a handful of words of the native language. Goes alot further.

English is the language of the world, without it you can't do much outside your own country.

I cannot see what is english worth in Argentina, for example, but well...

Try to make your way in Paris with english. People prefer to speak in spanish.

When in Rome, speak as the Romans do. When in the US, please speak English.

Somehow, I don't think I'd do very well going to Mexico to live and only knowing how to say "No hablo espanol".

When in Rome, speak as the Romans do. When in the US, please speak English.

Somehow, I don't think I'd do very well going to Mexico to live and only knowing how to say "No hablo espanol".

How about Chinatown? English?

How about Chinatown? English?

If they want to live in an isolated ghetto, that's up to them, butif they want to go outside their little area, they should speak the mainstream language, and in the US, that's still English.

If they want to live in an isolated ghetto, that's up to them, butif they want to go outside their little area, they should speak the mainstream language, and in the US, that's still English.

for how long, that is the question. I think it would be polite for every spanish speaking inmigrant to learn english, as for anyone else learn the language of the 30 per cent of the population.

A little bit of irony to lighen up your day. My friend is a third generation mexican and he is trying to learn spanish.

There's nothing ironic about that--in fact, it's expected. As I pointed out at the beginning of the thread, by the third generation, most immigrants are fully assimilated. The only ones who rarely get a mastery of the language are the initial immigrants. The reason this is an issue in the US with Spanish-speaking immigrants has nothing to do with people not learning the language and everything to do with the fact that immigration is continuous.

The US has no official language.

Sorry.


The State of Florida made English there offical language because foriegners moving into Florida didn't want to learn the language either. We may have to follow Florida's lead on this one. I don't see the problem with learning English, if we went over seas we would be expected to at least try to speak the language used there. So why is it a big deal when we ask people coming here from outside the US to do likewise?

They should try and learn the language, because it's obviously going to be easier to live in any country if you speak the same language as the other people there, but that's no reason for people to stop catering to them until they do. Imagine you're in a foriegn country with only a very basic amount of the local language. Do you go into the restaurant the may only speak the local language, or the one that advertises the fact it's waiters speak your language?

Thats fine if they intend to learn the language, but if they don't then why cater to them?

I couldn't hurt either group to learn another language. But that generally isn't what is being proposed...it's "you come here, you learn English you stupid spic" instead of, "hey, you know what? Being bilingual is a GOOD thing for us too!"

Why don't you both meet in the middle, and when you're there, you can choose which language to speak in, because you are fluent in both?

Cripes...the majority of people in this world speak more than one language...what is it with North Americans?

So you think they shouldn't have to learn English but I should have learn every language of every differant person coming into the US? I don't think so.

yes yes of course
that does not mean its going to happen though does it?
If 30% pf the population becomes spanish speaking then what? As the USA has no official language would not spanish have to become a common language along with english?
IF the spanish speaking population reaches 30% you don't think hollywood is going to start bringing films out where the original version is in spanish?
What then?

Then they will lose business from the english speaking public

Somehow, I don't think I'd do very well going to Mexico to live and only knowing how to say "No hablo espanol".

Oh, you'd do ok, depends on where in the country.

Never the ONLY language, thankfully.

Humans are quite capable of being multilingual.

When North Americans get over whatever inferiority complex they have over being mostly monolingual, and realise that they indeed are capable of learning more than one language, it will be better for everyone.


Just so you know I am learning german right now at forty eight years old, and I definately don't have a inferiority complex over anything least of all the fact I speak only one language for the most part. When I was in the service and went over seas my ship stopped in numerous differant countries and I at least attempted to speak to the native population in their own language. So why would it be any more of a problem for the them then it was for me. I found that the native people appreciated my effort even if I messed up and were much friendlier.

Just so you know I am learning german right now at forty eight years old, and I definately don't have a inferiority complex over anything least of all the fact I speak only one language for the most part. When I was in the service and went over seas my ship stopped in numerous differant countries and I at least attempted to speak to the native population in their own language. So why would it be any more of a problem for the them then it was for me. I found that the native people appreciated my effort even if I messed up and were much friendlier.

In the southwestern US and in Florida, the areas with the highest populations of Spanish speakers, Spanish is as native as English. And many of the people speaking Spanish in these areas are of mestizo blood, and form part of the native population.

Perhaps when you travel to these places, you could at least attempt to speak to the native population in their own language. You will undoubtedly find that the native people appreciate your effort, even if you mess up, and will be much friendlier.

Actually no, they should all learn Dutch, Finnish, Russian, or Xhosa. Simply because they sound so much cooler than English, and are easier. English is the most difficult language in the world to learn, with a few exceptions; the state English is in in our public schools alone is a good marker of that.

In the southwestern US and in Florida, the areas with the highest populations of Spanish speakers, Spanish is as native as English. And many of the people speaking Spanish in these areas are of mestizo blood, and form part of the native population.

I can't speak for the Southwestern US because I have never lived there. But Florida I know made English their Offical Language. Further because both areas are a part of the US where English has always been the mainstream language those entering our country should at least try to speak to us in our chosen native tongue.

Actually no, they should all learn Dutch, Finnish, Russian, or Xhosa. Simply because they sound so much cooler than English, and are easier. English is the most difficult language in the world to learn, with a few exceptions; the state English is in in our public schools alone is a good marker of that.

I disagree

I can't speak for the Southwestern US because I have never lived there. But Florida I know made English their Offical Language. Further because both areas are a part of the US where English has always been the mainstream language those entering our country should at least try to speak to us in our chosen native tongue.


I will repeat myself. Spanish is one of the native tongues in both areas. It is a local language. It has been since before the USA existed.
http://www.pbs.org/speak/seatosea/americanvarieties/spanglish/usa/

English has not always been the mainstream language in the southwest USA and Florida. Therefore, people entering these parts of the country, who speak spanish, already speak in a native US tongue.

I will repeat myself. Spanish is one of the native tongues in both areas. It is a local language. It has been since before the USA existed.
http://www.pbs.org/speak/seatosea/americanvarieties/spanglish/usa/

English has not always been the mainstream language in the southwest USA and Florida. Therefore, people entering these parts of the country, who speak spanish, already speak in a native US tongue.

And I repete ... Florida did in fact make English the Offical Language of Florida years ago when I lived down there. Beyond that Spanish has never been a native tongue of the US. Why can't the spanish people give us the same respect that spanish nations would expect from Americans who enter their countries. I am tired of the double standards you are trying to force upon this country when any other country would expect us to speak there language.

And I repete ... Florida did in fact make English the Offical Language of Florida years ago when I lived down there.

What is the point?

The acts of Florida legislators does nor change or affect, in any way, the fact that Spanish has just as much time and history in the southwest USA and Florida as English does.

I'm pointing out that when you talk about immigrants coming to these places and learning the native tongue, Spanish is one of the native tongues, and many, if not most, spanish speaking people are not immigrants.

What is the point?

The acts of Florida legislators does nor change or affect, in any way, the fact that Spanish has just as much time and history in the southwest USA and Florida as English does.

I'm pointing out that when you talk about immigrants coming to these places and learning the native tongue, Spanish is one of the native tongues, and many, if not most, spanish speaking people are not immigrants.

You really are very stubborn aren't you, and the acts of the US legislators that wrote and passed the Patriot Act doesn't change or affect American
Civil Rights either by your type of logic. :headbang:

You really are very stubborn aren't you, and the acts of the US legislators that wrote and passed the Patriot Act doesn't change or affect American
Civil Rights either by your type of logic. :headbang:


To be honest, this is merely a tangent to the OP.

This tangent started because I was responding to this:

When I was in the service and went over seas my ship stopped in numerous differant countries and I at least attempted to speak to the native population in their own language.

Well, if you were a visitor to another country, and you attempted to communicate in their language, you feel that people who visit or come to stay in your country should do the same for you. They should attempt to speak the native language.

So, I started thinking. What does Kormanthor mean by native population and native language in this context?

I assumed you meant that the native population and native language would be current US citizens and the native language to be English.

I assumed you did not mean people and languages from the different Native American nations.

Am I right so far?

I hope so. Let me continue.

Now, is English the native language of the USA?
That depends on what you mean by native, I guess. Any definition of native that includes English as a native language of the southwestern USA and Florida must also include Spanish. The same could be said of the population.

Spanish is as native to the southwestern USA and Florida as English is.

"So what?!", you're thinking to yourself. "Gee, Gift-of-Talking-too-much is more like it..." I've got a point. I'm getting to it. And here it is:

Spanish speaking immigrants to these areas of the USA are speaking to the local population in the native tongue. They're just doing it in Spanish.

Okay. I've explained my position as clearly as possible. How does the Florida thing fit into it?

people should learn whatever language they feel like.

I don't speak English to telemarketers either.

I'm not going to get into too much with your flame baiting tactics. If you think I'm a telemarketer , go right ahead. However, I do have one question. How many telemarketers do you know that actually have the capabilities and resources to save Lives?

I'm calling you out as a flame baiter due to the fact I have already explained several times what my job duties are. The main part of my job is to monitor our High Sight Radio and listen for distressed calls on the open water. My other job duties are plentiful including making sure we have correct membership info in case one of our members needs our help on the water. Having the correct information will more than likely save them $200/hr. You are obviously, a marine illiterate. I say Marine (not meaning the US Marines) meaning water. ma·rine [muh-reen]1. of or pertaining to the sea; existing in or produced by the sea: marine vegetation.
2. pertaining to navigation or shipping; nautical; naval; maritime.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/marine

Here's an educational link on what Marine Radio Operators actually do. Nowheres will you find it to be related to in any way, shape, or form as telemarketers.........
http://www.sbg.ac.at/ipk/avstudio/pierofun/transcript/mro.pdf

Here's another Link........
http://www.whitsundaysailtraining.com/courseradio.htm

Try educating yourself before you decide that my job is telemarketing...I wasn't going to say anything at first, I was simply going to blow it off as a flame bait attempt. Then I decided to give you a little education on my job duties. Communication is Key, I hope you know English.

I'm not going to get into too much with your flame baiting tactics. If you think I'm a telemarketer , go right ahead. However, I do have one question. How many telemarketers do you know that actually have the capabilities and resources to save Lives?

I'm calling you out as a flame baiter due to the fact I have already explained several times what my job duties are. The main part of my job is to monitor our High Sight Radio and listen for distressed calls on the open water. My other job duties are plentiful including making sure we have correct membership info in case one of our members needs our help on the water. Having the correct information will more than likely save them $200/hr. You are obviously, a marine illiterate. I say Marine (not meaning the US Marines) meaning water. ma·rine [muh-reen]1. of or pertaining to the sea; existing in or produced by the sea: marine vegetation.
2. pertaining to navigation or shipping; nautical; naval; maritime.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/marine

Here's an educational link on what Marine Radio Operators actually do. Nowheres will you find it to be related to in any way, shape, or form as telemarketers.........
http://www.sbg.ac.at/ipk/avstudio/pierofun/transcript/mro.pdf

Here's another Link........
http://www.whitsundaysailtraining.com/courseradio.htm

Try educating yourself before you decide that my job is telemarketing...I wasn't going to say anything at first, I was simply going to blow it off as a flame bait attempt. Then I decided to give you a little education on my job duties. Communication is Key, I hope you know English.

please tell me why you consider that to be flamebait. your post makes you look like one of those telemarketers.

In the southwestern US and in Florida, the areas with the highest populations of Spanish speakers, Spanish is as native as English. And many of the people speaking Spanish in these areas are of mestizo blood, and form part of the native population.

Perhaps when you travel to these places, you could at least attempt to speak to the native population in their own language. You will undoubtedly find that the native people appreciate your effort, even if you mess up, and will be much friendlier.

I live in Florida's west coast. The Tampa Bay area. The vast majority of Floridians speak English. English has been put into Florida's constitution as the "Official Language" If what you say were true, which it's not, Spanish would also be an official language but it's not.

As of 2000, 76.9% of Floridians population aged 5 and up spoke English compared to 16.5% spoke Spanish. That's a large difference to say "Spanish is as much native as English"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida#Languages

I may learn Spanish, but like I said earlier, I have other Priorities and I will not make learning Spanish my top priority.

And I repete ... Florida did in fact make English the Offical Language of Florida years ago when I lived down there. Beyond that Spanish has never been a native tongue of the US. Why can't the spanish people give us the same respect that spanish nations would expect from Americans who enter their countries. I am tired of the double standards you are trying to force upon this country when any other country would expect us to speak there language.

Guess what? You don't learn the language. We expect you too, but you don't. It's logical for you, or at least poetical, to get the same treatment by the inmigrants there.

For example, in your language, the word "american" means the people of your country, while in mine it means the people of a continent. And you still think we love to speak that way?

I am a spanish speaking person, I have already given you respect and talk with you in english, are you able to return the courtesy?

The reason it seems to be different with Mexican immigration to the US is because it's been more or less a constant wave for the last 400 years or so, and won't be stopping any time soon, so there are always new immigrants who haven't assimilated yet. But look at the communities as a whole, and you find way more English speakers than most xenophobes will ever admit.

400 yrs, I think technically that is incorrect, since the land originally belonged to Mexico.

It's normal for the 1st generation not to be good at picking up the language and completely normal to stay among others who speak their language.
Not a bad idea for americans to learn Spanish either, the world is shrinking being able to communicate with your neigbours is a good thing.

What is the point?

The acts of Florida legislators does nor change or affect, in any way, the fact that Spanish has just as much time and history in the southwest USA and Florida as English does.

I'm pointing out that when you talk about immigrants coming to these places and learning the native tongue, Spanish is one of the native tongues, and many, if not most, spanish speaking people are not immigrants.

Brief History Lesson on Florida: According to some Archeological findings, researchers believe that presend day Florida has been inhabited for thousands of years before ANY European settlements. The largest known of what we would call Native Americans is that of the "Ais" others were the Calusa, The Tocobago, Timucua, and the Apalachee.

Juan Ponce de Leon is said not to have arrived in Florida until April 2, 1513. In the following century both the Spanish and French had established settlements. The Spanish never had a tight hold on Florida. In fact, the Spanish control of certain areas of Florida (note areas and not entirety) having the English establishments in North Florida and the French colonies to their West.

Great Britain diplomatically had full Control of Florida by 1763. However, Spain did take advantage of the situation after the American Revolution broke out and was won by the American Colonies (of course the American Colonies did have allies who assisted namely France) therefore Spain did regain control of Florida after the end of the Revolutionary War.

In 1819, Spain ceded Florida to the US exchange in regards to Texas. On March 3, 1845 Florida became the 27th state of the USA.

So basicly, if you consider Spain to have full control of Florida from the discovery in 1513 to Great Britains control in 1763 would show Spain having control for 250 yrs, however, that's incorrect considering the fact Spain never had full control until allegedly 1819. You see I consider between 1513 to 1763 to be a major tug-of-war event between Spain, France, and Great Britain with Great Britain ultimately winning, diplomatically anyways, in 1763. Then after their Fall of the Revolutionary War, Spain snuck back in to gain control but the American Colonies had something more valuable in the eyes of the Spanish, being parts of Texas.

Anyway, you look at it Spain isn't the native to Florida, nor is French, nor is the English. Technically, it would have to be to the Native Americans, to the above mentioned tribes.

Florida's Brief History Lecture over.

please tell me why you consider that to be flamebait. your post makes you look like one of those telemarketers.

Because Telemarketers are widely disliked, for starters. Then, I clearly had stated that I despised telemarketers in an earlier post. I also clearly explained what my job duties were detesting the false accusations of telemarketing.

Clearly an attempt to Flame bait.

I have to agree with G-O-G, there are areas of the US where english was not the original language so it's not that unreasonable for a Mexican to speak spanish in want was long and still is very much a Spanish speaking region. They been been speaking spanish in some areas before the USA existed.

Well, they should have to take a second language at school, besides Spanish. Mostly because I have to take both English and Spanish, and I'm not nice enough to let them get away with it. If they choose to take Latin or German instead of English there, fine for them, but odds are it will make it harder for them to communicate with a country where the majority spoken language is English (even if not officially).

Imagine going to Mexico and saying...No habla espanol and demanding english be recognized.

ENGLISH ONLY! MY amily didn;t com over here expecting to speak Russian. IF they didn't learn English, they wouldn;t get vey far. Immigrants are being given an easy way out.

Imagine going to Mexico and saying...No habla espanol and demanding english be recognized.

ENGLISH ONLY! MY amily didn;t com over here expecting to speak Russian. IF they didn't learn English, they wouldn;t get vey far. Immigrants are being given an easy way out.

your right of course but everyone should learn a 2nd and even 3rd language, if mexicans in Mexico don't want to learn other languages that would be their mistake. In a Global world those who do not learn a 2nd or 3rd language will fall behind economically. Corporations love multilingual employees it's good for the bottom line. I've encouraged all my children to learn other languages, in my home seven different languages can be heard(everyone speaks 2, the youngest is on his way to 4).

Imagine going to Mexico and saying...No habla espanol and demanding english be recognized.

ENGLISH ONLY! MY amily didn;t com over here expecting to speak Russian. IF they didn't learn English, they wouldn;t get vey far. Immigrants are being given an easy way out.
I've had enough of this. Show me proof that the current immigrants are not learning English. Come on! You guys have been screaming about how they SHOULD learn English and have been told, repeatedly, that they are learning English and that by the third generation, they know ONLY English. So where is this large problem of immigrants getting an "easy" way out of not learning the language?

When we lived in Spain, the Spanish EXPECTED us to speak and learn Spanish. Hell, they even helped us learn it.

When we lived in Spain, the Spanish EXPECTED us to speak and learn Spanish. Hell, they even helped us learn it.

Which implies that they spoke enough English to be able to help.

Part of the problem is that the average US citizen speaks one language and one language only, and as such cannot help the Spanish speaker in adapting to English. If more people spoke Spanish as a second language, then it would be much simpler for the Spanish speaking immigrants to get help learning English.

Which implies that they spoke enough English to be able to help.

Part of the problem is that the average US citizen speaks one language and one language only, and as such cannot help the Spanish speaker in adapting to English. If more people spoke Spanish as a second language, then it would be much simpler for the Spanish speaking immigrants to get help learning English.

WRONG When we pointed to what we wanted and asked in Spanish "How do you say it." they told us, and wouldn't give it to us until we pronounced it right. They knew we wanted to learn and they were more than willing to help us.

Because Telemarketers are widely disliked, for starters. Then, I clearly had stated that I despised telemarketers in an earlier post. I also clearly explained what my job duties were detesting the false accusations of telemarketing.

Clearly an attempt to Flame bait.

really? you said it was flame bait when I said the article you liked to in some other thread was heavily biased. besides, are you sure he actually saw that post. no-one really digs thru a large thread.

really? you said it was flame bait when I said the article you liked to in some other thread was heavily biased. besides, are you sure he actually saw that post. no-one really digs thru a large thread.

Then maybe, I'm going to invent "unintentional Flame Bait". :p

Which implies that they spoke enough English to be able to help.

Part of the problem is that the average US citizen speaks one language and one language only, and as such cannot help the Spanish speaker in adapting to English. If more people spoke Spanish as a second language, then it would be much simpler for the Spanish speaking immigrants to get help learning English.

Lad, AB, you really need to stop owning the threads that much. I could start to admire you and everything.

Y bueno Celtlund, ¿Qué tanto aprendistes allá en España? ¿Bastante, suficiente o sólo un poco?

Because Telemarketers are widely disliked, for starters. Then, I clearly had stated that I despised telemarketers in an earlier post. I also clearly explained what my job duties were detesting the false accusations of telemarketing.

Clearly an attempt to Flame bait.
Then go tell a mod. Or shut up.

I've had enough of this. Show me proof that the current immigrants are not learning English. Come on! You guys have been screaming about how they SHOULD learn English and have been told, repeatedly, that they are learning English and that by the third generation, they know ONLY English. So where is this large problem of immigrants getting an "easy" way out of not learning the language?
There are many issues on which all the evidence in the world won't make a difference. I suspect this is one of them, since it's so much easier to denigrate the other than to actually get to know and understand them.

I have to agree with G-O-G, there are areas of the US where english was not the original language so it's not that unreasonable for a Mexican to speak spanish in want was long and still is very much a Spanish speaking region. They been been speaking spanish in some areas before the USA existed.

Excellent. So now we need to teach everyone in New York Dutch while we're at it. I'm sure the 25% Spanish speaking community will flock to that, as will the 9% Polish, 12% Russian, etc.

English is the common tongue. Otherwise we end up with the Tower of Babel. End of story.

Then go tell a mod. Or shut up.

He asked me a question and I told him so I believe you're the one that needs to shut the Hell up since you obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Again, He asked me a question and I was more than obliged to give him an answer.

Also, this is a very simple question and the only insinuations are in your head and people who are like you's head.

There is, I know I have already said this but WTF, I'll say it again. There is ABSOLUTELY NO BIGOTRY involved in this TOPIC and There's no place for it in this TOPIC. It's a simple question that involves Common Sense. and to deny the fact that everybody in America either knows English fluently, the basics of English, or learning English is just down right ludicrous. How the Hell can you tell me that every single one of the more than 300,000,000 people living here. all know or are learning the English language. To say that is practically saying that this is a Perfect world and I call BS.

Note: Take your hate elsewhere, please. I'm personally getting tired of mouths like yours going against others who happen to disagree with you. Get Over It. People will Always disagree.

There are many issues on which all the evidence in the world won't make a difference. I suspect this is one of them, since it's so much easier to denigrate the other than to actually get to know and understand them.

Show me where in any of my postings in this topic that I have knowingly been deragatory to any Race or People. Go ahead. Where?

the answer is fucking simple.

The US has NO National Language.

You can speak whatever the hell you wan't, whenever the hell you wan't, about whatever the hell you wan't. No-one can force you to speak spanish, no one can force you to speak english. Its up to you to decide what and who you communicate with.

the answer is fucking simple.

The US has NO National Language.

You can speak whatever the hell you wan't, whenever the hell you wan't, about whatever the hell you wan't. No-one can force you to speak spanish, no one can force you to speak english. Its up to you to decide what and who you communicate with.

I think as long as Government funded schools use English as the Primary language there should be no problem. Sure the first generation may never learn english fluently (their choice their advantage/disadvantage) but the second generation will... problem solved. Integration.

As long as the first generation immigrants are still a minor proportion of the population the system should go on working just fine.

I think as long as Government funded schools use English as the Primary language there should be no problem. Sure the first generation may never learn english fluently (their choice their advantage/disadvantage) but the second generation will... problem solved. Integration.

As long as the first generation immigrants are still a minor proportion of the population the system should go on working just fine.

Thats actually very interesting.....

the answer is fucking simple.

The US has NO National Language.

You can speak whatever the hell you wan't, whenever the hell you wan't, about whatever the hell you wan't. No-one can force you to speak spanish, no one can force you to speak english. Its up to you to decide what and who you communicate with.

Yea that's simply a rude double standard