NationStates Jolt Archive

(Poll coming soon)

Should the spanish speaking people and citizens of the United States learn or atleast show an effort of learning the English language?

English is America's Primary Language. The reason I'm having a poll is because this is the 2nd time in less than a weeks time I attempted to contact somebody regarding their membership with my company: wife of member answers phone, I ask for Mr. Whoever, wife answers, "No speak English" and hung up. This really aggravates the hell out of me. I feel that any foreigner that moves to America should have some sort of agreement that they will show an effort to learn the Primary Language.

I'm getting pretty tired of businesses and others (including our Government) who continually caters to the non-English speaking citizens in America.

Why don't people moving to America want to learn the primary language. Some people are also talking about adding to our road signs to make them English and Spanish. Which brings another truth about this situation regarding safety issues on our roads and furthers my wanting of some sort of mandate and agreement that people will show some sort of effort to learn the English language. I'm not talking about it having to be fluent but atleast the basics.

The US has no official language.

Sorry.

I think that should be up to them. If they can get by without speaking English, let them.

(Poll coming soon)

Should the spanish speaking people and citizens of the United States learn or atleast show an effort of learning the English language?

English is America's Official Language. The reason I'm having a poll is because this is the 2nd time in less than a weeks time I attempted to contact somebody regarding their membership with my company: wife of member answers phone, I ask for Mr. Whoever, wife answers, "No speak English" and hung up. This really aggravates the hell out of me. I feel that any foreigner that moves to America should have some sort of agreement that they will show an effort to learn the Official Language.

I'm getting pretty tired of businesses and others (including our Government) who continually caters to the non-English speaking citizens in America.

Why don't people moving to America want to learn the official language. Some people are also talking about adding to our road signs to make them English and Spanish. Which brings another truth about this situation regarding safety issues on our roads and furthers my wanting of some sort of mandate and agreement that people will show some sort of effort to learn the English language. I'm not talking about it having to be fluent but atleast the basics.

While I think that anyone that moves to a country should make the effort to learn its languages I can not really fault businesses for trying to increase revenue by providing an alternitive

What does road safety issues have to with signs? For people to have a driving license they must be able to grasp basic english and understand signs. they only want to change the signs so people will know where they're going.

They should try and learn the language, because it's obviously going to be easier to live in any country if you speak the same language as the other people there, but that's no reason for people to stop catering to them until they do. Imagine you're in a foriegn country with only a very basic amount of the local language. Do you go into the restaurant the may only speak the local language, or the one that advertises the fact it's waiters speak your language?

Mexican immigrants learn English all the time. In fact, it's been shown that assimilation is, in general, a three-generation process. The immigrants themselves rarely gain more than a basic knowledge of the new language--no matter where they move to or from. That's due, in part, to the difficulty of picking up a new language when you're older. Second generation immigrants, or those who are children when they move to a new country, generally wind up bilingual, and partially to mostly assimilated. Third generation is more assimilated than anything else.

The reason it seems to be different with Mexican immigration to the US is because it's been more or less a constant wave for the last 400 years or so, and won't be stopping any time soon, so there are always new immigrants who haven't assimilated yet. But look at the communities as a whole, and you find way more English speakers than most xenophobes will ever admit.

The US has no official language.

Sorry.

Technicality, While I am not against things like translators and stuff in the governmental side. Relying on a technicality is hardly befitting

Everything is just easier for them and us if people work on learning the language, or at least make sure their kids learn (first generation rarely has a too high of percentage that learn ...)

English is America's Official Language. The reason I'm having a poll is because this is the 2nd time in less than a weeks time I attempted to contact somebody regarding their membership with my company: wife of member answers phone, I ask for Mr. Whoever, wife answers, "No speak English" and hung up. This really aggravates the hell out of me. I feel that any foreigner that moves to America should have some sort of agreement that they will show an effort to learn the Official Language.
This sounds rather telemarketish- perhaps someone just doesn't want to talk to you? :p
If immigrants have no difficulty using gestures and the like to communicate without English, fine. If they insist on making life difficult for themselves and people around them, they should make an effort to learn English, but it's not something that should be required by law.

Mexican immigrants learn English all the time. In fact, it's been shown that assimilation is, in general, a three-generation process. The immigrants themselves rarely gain more than a basic knowledge of the new language--no matter where they move to or from. That's due, in part, to the difficulty of picking up a new language when you're older. Second generation immigrants, or those who are children when they move to a new country, generally wind up bilingual, and partially to mostly assimilated. Third generation is more assimilated than anything else.

The reason it seems to be different with Mexican immigration to the US is because it's been more or less a constant wave for the last 400 years or so, and won't be stopping any time soon, so there are always new immigrants who haven't assimilated yet. But look at the communities as a whole, and you find way more English speakers than most xenophobes will ever admit.
Well said and agreed

I couldn't hurt either group to learn another language. But that generally isn't what is being proposed...it's "you come here, you learn English you stupid spic" instead of, "hey, you know what? Being bilingual is a GOOD thing for us too!"

Why don't you both meet in the middle, and when you're there, you can choose which language to speak in, because you are fluent in both?

Cripes...the majority of people in this world speak more than one language...what is it with North Americans?

English should be made the official language of the United States of America, if it isn't. They should either learn our language or gtfo out. (In fact, as a corporatist, I am inclined to say that they should gtfo anyway, what with them takin' er jerbs)

We've had immigrants before, but they always assimilated into our culture. The Polacks, the French, etc didn't expect us to speak polish or french...or Russian or whatever. They started speaking OUR language...and that's the way it should be.

Yes, everyone should make the effort to learn to speak English (American English) if they live in the US - even though it's not an official language.

And, if you don't speak Spanish, and there are a significant number of Spanish people and businesses in your area, it would behoove you to learn to speak, read, and write Spanish.

Wherever you live, make an effort to learn the local languages.

Technicality, While I am not against things like translators and stuff in the governmental side. Relying on a technicality is hardly befitting Sorry, it's more than a technicality. Canada has two official languages, and believe me, that stamp of officiality makes a difference.

Everything is just easier for them and us if people work on learning the language, or at least make sure their kids learn (first generation rarely has a too high of percentage that learn ...)

It's easier for kids. The older generations tend to get by on what they can pick up but are usually never really comfortable with the new language...that's regardless of what their first language is. It's not like you have kids going through the entire school system, growing up in the US and never learning a word of English. THAT would be something to worry about. This? Not so much.

English should be made the official language of the United States of America, if it isn't. They should either learn our language or gtfo out. (In fact, as a corporatist, I am inclined to say that they should gtfo anyway, what with them takin' er jerbs)

We've had immigrants before, but they always assimilated into our culture. The Polacks, the French, etc didn't expect us to speak polish or french...or Russian or whatever. They started speaking OUR language...and that's the way it should be.

Yes they did make an effort but it usually took till at least the second generation, way to bring up history and ignore its lessons all at the same time

The US has no official language.

Sorry.

You know what I meant. Anyways, I edited the word "official" out and put Primary.

It soon will be our Official language, The Senate passed it in May of 2006, we're waiting for the House to go over it and check the amendments. It is expected to pass the House but only time will tell.

Thanks for the correction. I didn't know America didn't have an official language. Kind of shocking since we have an "official" practically everything. I double checked wikipedia. :)

We've had immigrants before, but they always assimilated into our culture. The Polacks, the French, etc didn't expect us to speak polish or french...or Russian or whatever. They started speaking OUR language...and that's the way it should be.

I don't hear you speaking Lakota, immigrant.

Thanks for the correction. I didn't know America didn't have an official language. Kind of shocking since we have an "official" practically everything. I double checked wikipedia. :)

Yeah, yet something else that NS taught me *is humbled for a moment at the great learnings to be found here*

I don't hear you speaking Lakota, immigrant.

That's an incredibly weak analogy. We came in and we kicked the Indian's ass. We didn't come as immigrants into Indian territory. We came as conquerers TAKING the Indian's territory.

The Spanish are coming in as immigrants rather than conquerers. Therefore, they should learn our language, or get out. :mad:

Meh... It looks like eventually English will be the language of the world soon enough anyway.

English should be made the official language of the United States of America, if it isn't. They should either learn our language or gtfo out. (In fact, as a corporatist, I am inclined to say that they should gtfo anyway, what with them takin' er jerbs)

We've had immigrants before, but they always assimilated into our culture. The Polacks, the French, etc didn't expect us to speak polish or french...or Russian or whatever. They started speaking OUR language...and that's the way it should be.

So you expect businesses to ignore the money that can be made from catering to people who don't speak the language yet?

That's an incredibly weak analogy. We came in and we kicked the Indian's ass. We didn't come as immigrants into Indian territory. We came as conquerers TAKING the Indian's territory.

The Spanish are coming in as immigrants rather than conquerers. Therefore, they should learn our language, or get out. :mad:

Really? The way you go on about them, you do seem to perceive them as conquerors...

I don't hear you speaking Lakota, immigrant.

The so-called "native" Americans were immigrants, too, y'know. They just happened to settle in the Americas first. You want the Peruvians to learn the Incan language, too, I suppose? :rolleyes:

Yes they did make an effort but it usually took till at least the second generation, way to bring up history and ignore its lessons all at the same time

Even with the second generation, we aren't seeing the same progress in our leftist hippy tainted society. Once upon a time, the public school system actually solved this problem. When my grandmother (on my mother's side) was a little girl, she spoke only Cajun French...until she went to public school...at which point she more or less had French pounded out of her.

The so-called "native" Americans were immigrants, too, y'know. They just happened to settle in the Americas first. You want the Peruvians to learn the Incan language, too, I suppose? :rolleyes:
Note the post it was in response to.

Really? The way you go on about them, you do seem to perceive them as conquerors...

Either way, it dont' matter to me. Call em conquerers if you want, that'd just give us good reason to say they shouldn't be here at all.

What does road safety issues have to with signs? For people to have a driving license they must be able to grasp basic english and understand signs. they only want to change the signs so people will know where they're going.

When someone goes to the DMV to get their license their's a written test, in English, mind you, in some cases it's written in Spanish but still the fact of a lot of road signs are in English. If you can't speak English, you may have a translater to assist you. While driving, you may not have a translater present therefore being unable to read some or all of the written signs on the roads. To me this is a very big safety concern.

Whatever country you live in it is always best to learn their main language. It will make your life much easier if you do so.

Either way, it dont' matter to me. Call em conquerers if you want, that'd just give us good reason to say they shouldn't be here at all.

So basically you're just a xenophobe?

English should be made the official language of the United States of America, if it isn't.

considering Spanish is Americas second language that is yet to be recognised I think it’s a bit late for one official language

Also if Spanish was taught in elementary/kinder garden level it would prove very helpful later in life (especially since learning a language at a young age is fairly easy in comparison)

That's an incredibly weak analogy. We came in and we kicked the Indian's ass. We didn't come as immigrants into Indian territory. We came as conquerers TAKING the Indian's territory. Sorry, you might wish it were that way, and there was certainly double dealing and many deaths...but your nation, to the highest level, affirms and recognises that your version of history is false. Had you come as conquerors, things would have been very different...but you signed Treaties. The Supreme Court of the US, (read the Marshall decisions) have laid it out very clearly...aboriginal peoples are members of domestic, dependent nations...not members of a subjugated people. The debt owed to us is constantly being reinforced in the courts...you wouldn't have to bother had you actually conquered us.

It must hurt to be so ignorant about the history of your own nation.

The Spanish are coming in as immigrants rather than conquerers.
Yes, just like you did.

So...Lakota lessons at 3?

So basically you're just a xenophobe?

I ain't scared of foreigners; I just really don't like em. :mad:

So basically you're just a xenophobe?

That's what my guess would be, yes. An uninformed one, too.

That's an incredibly weak analogy. We came in and we kicked the Indian's ass. We didn't come as immigrants into Indian territory. We came as conquerers TAKING the Indian's territory.

The Spanish are coming in as immigrants rather than conquerers. Therefore, they should learn our language, or get out. :mad:
http://www.soaringpanda.com/gelblog/archives/orly.jpeg

From dictionary.com:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source
im·mi·grant /ˈɪmɪgrənt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[im-i-gruhnt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence.
2. an organism found in a new habitat.
–adjective 3. of or pertaining to immigrants and immigration: a department for immigrant affairs.
4. immigrating.


American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source im·mi·grant (ĭm'ĭ-grənt) Pronunciation Key
n.
A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another.
A plant or animal that establishes itself in an area where it previously did not exist.
adj. Of or relating to immigrants or the act of immigrating.
noun
a person who comes to a country where they were not born in order to settle there

WordNet® 2.1, © 2005 Princeton University
Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary (Beta Version) - Cite This Source
immigrant [ˈimigrənt] noun, adjective
(a person) who has come into a foreign country to live there permanently, not as a tourist or visitor
Example: The eastern part of the city is inhabited by immigrants; the immigrant population
Someone who goes to a foreign country to live their permanently? Sure looks like the early settlers of America to me.

Everyone should learn as many languages as they run into.

Meh... It looks like eventually English will be the language of the world soon enough anyway.

Never the ONLY language, thankfully.

Humans are quite capable of being multilingual.

When North Americans get over whatever inferiority complex they have over being mostly monolingual, and realise that they indeed are capable of learning more than one language, it will be better for everyone.

Whatever country you live in it is always best to learn their main language. It will make your life much easier if you do so.

Of course. Were I to move to, say, Rome, I'd learn Italian. I myself learned Spanish here in the US, mostly as a courtesy to the many here who are more comfortable speaking it. However, they should learn English as well, if not out of courtesy, but out of necessity.

Most spanish speaking immigrants to North America will learn english. Some first-generation immigrants will learn english so well, you would be unable to guess their country of origin.

I think the USA is moving inexorably towards bilingualism. Especially with increased globalisation and trade agreements with Latin American countries.

By the way, if you think that Mexicans are bad drivers because they can't read the signs, you should go to Mexico. You will quickly find out that they are aggresive drivers in their local language as well.

Y si no puedes entender lo que te estan diciendo, quizas vale la pena aprender otra idioma.

(insert sombrero smiley here)

Never the ONLY language, thankfully.

Humans are quite capable of being multilingual.

When North Americans get over whatever inferiority complex they have over being mostly monolingual, and realise that they indeed are capable of learning more than one language, it will be better for everyone.

And when you get over your superiority complex, it'll be better for everyone as well.

Never the ONLY language, thankfully.

Humans are quite capable of being multilingual.

The only languages that an American should know are English, Latin, and Greek.

The only languages that an American should know are English, Latin, and Greek.
Explain...

The so-called "native" Americans were immigrants, too, y'know. They just happened to settle in the Americas first. Many anthropologists are challenging this claim...you should read Vine Deloria Jr. for a break down of the opposing views to the immigrant theory.


In any case, it really doesn't matter...we were the first, regardless.

You want the Peruvians to learn the Incan language, too, I suppose? :rolleyes:

Um...you DO know that the Peruvians are the children of the Inca and the Spanish? And that in fact, many of them DO speak the ancient languages?

Explain...

Latin and Ancient Greek are the languages of the intellectual elite.

When someone goes to the DMV to get their license their's a written test, in English, mind you, in some cases it's written in Spanish but still the fact of a lot of road signs are in English. If you can't speak English, you may have a translater to assist you. While driving, you may not have a translater present therefore being unable to read some or all of the written signs on the roads. To me this is a very big safety concern.

What signs are in English?

Almost all signs are symbols or pictograms, apart from speed signs, which are numbers.

The few signs that are in english are also normally accompanied by a pictogram, and those that are not are normally fairly distinctive like "Stop".

The very few 'word-only' require only the most rudimentry knowlege of the language. For example last timeI was in malaysia I worked out that a sign I kep seeing meant "Warning/Danger" (can't remember the word now). Likewise - someone who does not know English will still recognise "STOP" as meaning 'stop'.

I ain't scared of foreigners; I just really don't like em. :mad:
So.... you're a xenophobe. :p

When someone goes to the DMV to get their license their's a written test, in English, mind you, in some cases it's written in Spanish but still the fact of a lot of road signs are in English. If you can't speak English, you may have a translater to assist you. While driving, you may not have a translater present therefore being unable to read some or all of the written signs on the roads. To me this is a very big safety concern.

I'm going to call bullshit on this one. Provide a supporting source, please.

So.... you're a xenophobe. :p

By definition, no. When I see a Mexican, I don't get the willys, I get really pissed off. I just wanna ....:upyours:... you know?

By the way, if you think that Mexicans are bad drivers because they can't read the signs, you should go to Mexico. You will quickly find out that they are aggresive drivers in their local language as well.

I thought the drivers in New England were psychotic. Then I went to Santiago, Chile. Holy crap! They have speed bumps all over the side streets to make sure people can't do 80 mph. And riding in a taxi there scared the shit outta me.[/quote]

Y si no puedes entender lo que te estan diciendo, quizas vale la pena aprender otra idioma.

Por supuesto. (Loose translation, in this instance, for non-Spanish speakers: DUH!) :p

And when you get over your superiority complex, it'll be better for everyone as well.

That I am trilingual? Along with millions upon millions of other people? Hardly a superiority complex...more like a viceral understanding that multilingualism is THE GLOBAL NORM. (and not at all difficult, if a child is exposed to more than one language early on)

North Americans (note, Canadians are just as bad as those in the US, two official languages notwithstanding) resist that...why? I can only believe it is fear, because I know we aren't any more stupid than the rest of the world.

Can you deny that it would be beneficial on both sides to learn both Spanish and English...not just the 'immigrants', but the ones who have lived in the US for many generations as well?

Latin and Ancient Greek are the languages of the intellectual elite.

A group of which your membership seems to have been declined.........

Latin and Ancient Greek are the languages of the intellectual elite.

Intellectuals thinking they need to know classical languages are just snobs. Languages of the intellectual elite indeed. It is just to keep the masses from understanding what they are talking about. People can't disagree with them or cry bullshit if they don't know what they are saying.

A group of which your membership seems to have been declined.........

I ad Infernum, asine.

This sounds rather telemarketish- perhaps someone just doesn't want to talk to you? :p
If immigrants have no difficulty using gestures and the like to communicate without English, fine. If they insist on making life difficult for themselves and people around them, they should make an effort to learn English, but it's not something that should be required by law.

No I am NOT in telemarketing. In Fact, I despise telemarketers. My job duties in short is to offer Safety, Knowlege, and Rescue to the Recreational Boaters. I have a High Sight radio that can be heard and can hear throughout the entire South East of America. We offer the recreational boaters a membership for free services that include Free Towing, Free delivery of gas/parts, Free degroundings, Free Local Knowlege, Free Radio Checks, etc...... the list goes on and on. All that for an annual membership fee. Main objective is to give our Members Priority/Top services on the water. We also help in distressed calls/situations. Help the Coast Guard. Etc... Far from telemarketing. I speak English, everybody in my company speaks English. Conclusion: If you need towed in when you broke down on the water You better know English in order for us an American small business to better serve you. If I can't understand you, how can I help you?

By definition, no. When I see a Mexican, I don't get the willys, I get really pissed off. I just wanna ....:upyours:... you know?
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to call you a xenophobe when 'racist' does the job just as well.

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to call you a xenophobe when 'racist' does the job just as well.

Get it right, man. I ain't a xenophobe. I am just a racist.

I thought the drivers in New England were psychotic. Then I went to Santiago, Chile. Holy crap! They have speed bumps all over the side streets to make sure people can't do 80 mph. And riding in a taxi there scared the shit outta me. Yeah, and the speed up when they see a pedestrian, so the sound of the motor warns you of your impending doom...not to mention the micros, where they just slightly slow down for you to jump on or off....

The only languages that an American should know are English, Latin, and Greek.

Lol why?

Lol why?

I think everyone should learn Java, Javascript, and C#

Get it right, man. I ain't a xenophobe. I am just a racist.

Well finally, something honest out of you.

I thought the drivers in New England were psychotic. Then I went to Santiago, Chile. Holy crap! They have speed bumps all over the side streets to make sure people can't do 80 mph. And riding in a taxi there scared the shit outta me.

I didn't find Santiago cabbies that bad.

I ain't scared of foreigners; I just really don't like em. :mad:
A phobia is not just an irrational fear, these days it's taken to mean a great dislike too.
The only languages that an American should know are English, Latin, and Greek.
Why?
Latin and Ancient Greek are the languages of the intellectual elite.
They were, now they're the languages of history scholars, philosophers and people trying to look intellectual
By definition, no. When I see a Mexican, I don't get the willys, I get really pissed off. I just wanna ....:upyours:... you know?
See above.

I think everyone should learn Java, Javascript, and C#

Bah C or C++ personally

(on top of Java)

Some of the other web based like ASP and PHP have been helpfull too

I didn't find Santiago cabbies that bad.

Ha...you must have taken cabs in Lima then...

No I am NOT in telemarketing. In Fact, I despise telemarketers. My job duties in short is to offer Safety, Knowlege, and Rescue to the Recreational Boaters. I have a High Sight radio that can be heard and can hear throughout the entire South East of America. We offer the recreational boaters a membership for free services that include Free Towing, Free delivery of gas/parts, Free degroundings, Free Local Knowlege, Free Radio Checks, etc...... the list goes on and on. All that for an annual membership fee. Main objective is to give our Members Priority/Top services on the water. We also help in distressed calls/situations. Help the Coast Guard. Etc... Far from telemarketing. I speak English, everybody in my company speaks English. Conclusion: If you need towed in when you broke down on the water You better know English in order for us an American small business to better serve you. If I can't understand you, how can I help you?


Does this happen Often?

Bah C or C++ personally

(on top of Java)

Some of the other web based like ASP and PHP have been helpfull too

Well, yes, C or C++ for the more intelligent of us.

And if you're going to script, Perl or Ruby. Well, Ruby, because I love it.

Of course, everyone will have to be able to use vi.

(Poll coming soon)

Should the spanish speaking people and citizens of the United States learn or atleast show an effort of learning the English language?

English is America's Primary Language. The reason I'm having a poll is because this is the 2nd time in less than a weeks time I attempted to contact somebody regarding their membership with my company: wife of member answers phone, I ask for Mr. Whoever, wife answers, "No speak English" and hung up. This really aggravates the hell out of me. I feel that any foreigner that moves to America should have some sort of agreement that they will show an effort to learn the Primary Language.

I'm getting pretty tired of businesses and others (including our Government) who continually caters to the non-English speaking citizens in America.

Why don't people moving to America want to learn the primary language. Some people are also talking about adding to our road signs to make them English and Spanish. Which brings another truth about this situation regarding safety issues on our roads and furthers my wanting of some sort of mandate and agreement that people will show some sort of effort to learn the English language. I'm not talking about it having to be fluent but atleast the basics.
It's probably a good idea for anybody who lives in America to learn to speak English, just from a pragmatic standpoint. Life will be much easier for you if you can understand English.

I'd say it's also a very good idea for Americans to learn Spanish. We've got a significant Spanish-speaking population, and Spanish is spoken in tons of countries around the world. It would probably also be handy to learn some other languages, like some Chinese or German. Hell, ANY second language is better than none, and that includes Esperanto!!

Bah C or C++ personally

(on top of Java)

Some of the other web based like ASP and PHP have been helpfull too

Pfft. I think everyone should learn to speak in dactylic hexameter. (We each have our specialities.) ;)

Latin and Ancient Greek are the languages of the intellectual elite.
Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est.

I'd say it's also a very good idea for Americans to learn Spanish. We've got a significant Spanish-speaking population, and Spanish is spoken in tons of countries around the world. It would probably also be handy to learn some other languages, like some Chinese or German. Hell, ANY second language is better than none, and that includes Esperanto!!

Careful....Cluich will say you have a superiority complex for advocating this kind of thing:D

Well, yes, C or C++ for the more intelligent of us.

And if you're going to script, Perl or Ruby. Well, Ruby, because I love it.

Of course, everyone will have to be able to use vi.


When I read things like this, I feel weirdly inferior, as I only understand and communicate in languages that are spoken as well.

Imagine Perl as one of the US's official languages!

I speak English, everybody in my company speaks English. Conclusion: If you need towed in when you broke down on the water You better know English in order for us an American small business to better serve you. If I can't understand you, how can I help you?

Um, isn't the whole point of your thread that not everyone in your country speaks English, but that you'd like them to? What kind of business ignores present realities in favour of what it would like the world to be like? Not a successful one...

Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est.

Really? How many great of the corn are?

Really? How many are of the great corn?

QUID?!

No I am NOT in telemarketing. In Fact, I despise telemarketers. My job duties in short is to offer Safety, Knowlege, and Rescue to the Recreational Boaters. I have a High Sight radio that can be heard and can hear throughout the entire South East of America. We offer the recreational boaters a membership for free services that include Free Towing, Free delivery of gas/parts, Free degroundings, Free Local Knowlege, Free Radio Checks, etc...... the list goes on and on. All that for an annual membership fee. Main objective is to give our Members Priority/Top services on the water. We also help in distressed calls/situations. Help the Coast Guard. Etc... Far from telemarketing. I speak English, everybody in my company speaks English. Conclusion: If you need towed in when you broke down on the water You better know English in order for us an American small business to better serve you. If I can't understand you, how can I help you?

Not to put too fine a point on it, but it seems like the fault in this circumstance is yours, or your company's at least. The customer is supposed to be at the top of the chain, as I understand it, not the other way around. At the very least, you're leaving a growing portion of the market untapped for no good reason. You're ceding it to the competition.

When I read things like this, I feel weirdly inferior, as I only understand and communicate in languages that are spoken as well.

Imagine Perl as one of the US's official languages!

That's the best thing about programming languages.

Example:

If I speak French, and you don't, it isn't going to make you feel weirdly inferior - hey, you like speaking your native non-French language (assuming you don't speak a word of French).

But, if you run into a programmer, and you need help in that entry level CS class...

A phobia is not just an irrational fear, these days it's taken to mean a great dislike too.

In that usage then, yes, I am a xenophobe, a homophobe, and so forth and so on.

They were, now they're the languages of history scholars, philosophers and people trying to look intellectual

As I said. The intellectual elite.

In that usage then, yes, I am a xenophobe, a homophobe, and so forth and so on.


In short, a hermite with no friends or social contacts.
What's it to you then what language the rest of the world prefers for communication?

What signs are in English?

Almost all signs are symbols or pictograms, apart from speed signs, which are numbers.

The few signs that are in english are also normally accompanied by a pictogram, and those that are not are normally fairly distinctive like "Stop".

The very few 'word-only' require only the most rudimentry knowlege of the language. For example last timeI was in malaysia I worked out that a sign I kep seeing meant "Warning/Danger" (can't remember the word now). Likewise - someone who does not know English will still recognise "STOP" as meaning 'stop'.

You had better double check the street signs. You will find many of them to be written. Whether or not their the Regulatory signs, Warning signs, Construction signs, etc..... In fact, here is a post for practically every sign there is in alphabetical order....

http://members.aol.com/rcmoeur/sgnalpha.html

In short, a hermite with no friends or social contacts.
What's it to you then what language the rest of the world prefers for communication?

A hermite? Is that anything like marmite?

Um, isn't the whole point of your thread that not everyone in your country speaks English, but that you'd like them to? What kind of business ignores present realities in favour of what it would like the world to be like? Not a successful one...

Not to put too fine a point on it, but it seems like the fault in this circumstance is yours, or your company's at least. The customer is supposed to be at the top of the chain, as I understand it, not the other way around. At the very least, you're leaving a growing portion of the market untapped for no good reason. You're ceding it to the competition.

Neesika and Nazz are both right.

I have taken a class in college that focused on training us to be prepared to work in a helpdesk environment, so we can anticipate most common problems that occur when dealing with clients.

Two interesting points were that, while the customer isn't always right, the customer (or client) must leave satisfied even if you haven't solved their issue adequately. They should feel that you're putting their needs first and that they are a priority.

The second point is actually related to outsourcing and it is this: outsourcing your services means you take advantage of expertise that another company has that you don't, such as being able to answer calls in more than one language.

Sorry, you might wish it were that way, and there was certainly double dealing and many deaths...but your nation, to the highest level, affirms and recognises that your version of history is false. Had you come as conquerors, things would have been very different...but you signed Treaties. The Supreme Court of the US, (read the Marshall decisions) have laid it out very clearly...aboriginal peoples are members of domestic, dependent nations...not members of a subjugated people. The debt owed to us is constantly being reinforced in the courts...you wouldn't have to bother had you actually conquered us.

Sorry, didn't realise I was addressing a frustrated "Native American" here. Debt my ass.

It must hurt to be so ignorant about the history of your own nation.

He might be ignorant, but I'm not. The primarily European settlers came to North America and, yes, conquered it. The USSC can twist it otherwise, but it was a conquest. I'm not saying that's good or bad, just reality.

So...Lakota lessons at 3?

Keep beating that drum. :rolleyes:

I ain't scared of foreigners; I just really don't like em. :mad:

Wow...pure ignorance. Lovely.

The only languages that an American should know are English, Latin, and Greek.

Wow...not German, too? You shock me. With you, I would've figure that'd come before Latin and Greek.

Many anthropologists are challenging this claim...you should read Vine Deloria Jr. for a break down of the opposing views to the immigrant theory.



Read it. In fact, I bought the book, but I don't buy the theory.

In any case, it really doesn't matter...we were the first, regardless.

But your ancestors lost (I myself have some Iroqois blood, so they lost, too).

Um...you DO know that the Peruvians are the children of the Inca and the Spanish? And that in fact, many of them DO speak the ancient languages?

I'm throwing the bullshit card on this.

Latin and Ancient Greek are the languages of the intellectual elite.

Yes, and we've reviewed your application for membership, and it's been denied.

That I am trilingual? Along with millions upon millions of other people? Hardly a superiority complex...more like a viceral understanding that multilingualism is THE GLOBAL NORM. (and not at all difficult, if a child is exposed to more than one language early on)

Just because something is the norm doesn't make it right. I'll go ahead and be a dick here. European colonization of the Western hemishpere and the subjugation of the people currently living there was the norm a few hundred years ago. Gonna say that was right? *smirk*

Can you deny that it would be beneficial on both sides to learn both Spanish and English...not just the 'immigrants', but the ones who have lived in the US for many generations as well?

Of course not, as I've already said. You just need to get off that high horse of yours.

In that usage then, yes, I am a xenophobe, a homophobe, and so forth and so on.



As I said. The intellectual elite.
Dear god, it's like if Ny Nordland, MTAE and Redemption Army all fused into one gigantic super-troll.
A hermite? Is that anything like marmite?
Yes- distasteful, sticky and bitter. :p

Yes, we reviewed, and your membership's been denied

Suge globos meos. :)

Wow...pure ignorance. Lovely.

Xenophobia necessarily implies ignorance? Now THAT'S ignorant.

You had better double check the street signs. You will find many of them to be written. Whether or not their the Regulatory signs, Warning signs, Construction signs, etc..... In fact, here is a post for practically every sign there is in alphabetical order....

http://members.aol.com/rcmoeur/sgnalpha.html

Thankyou for the link.

I notice though that the majority of the signs are either just pictograms or are pictograms with words.

Of the ones that are just words, the words are pretty common and the message is generally very short and simple - a very rudimenty knowlege of English would be plenty to get by.

You would need a much lower knowlege of the english language to know what the signs were going on about than you would to be able to read the questions themselves. Hence them allowing for translations of the questions.

Suge globos meos. :)



Xenophobia necessarily implies ignorance? Now THAT'S ignorant.

Of course it does. By refusing to accept or learn about other races and cultures, you are therefore ignorant of them.

Your latin might be there, but your english needs working on, matey.

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to call you a xenophobe when 'racist' does the job just as well.

Yes, the racist card. Wonderful. Mexicans aren't a different race, ffs.

Get it right, man. I ain't a xenophobe. I am just a racist.

Again, Mexicans aren't a different race. And you're really niether. You're just an ignoramus.

Yeah, and the speed up when they see a pedestrian, so the sound of the motor warns you of your impending doom...not to mention the micros, where they just slightly slow down for you to jump on or off....

Scared the shit outta me. But then, I'm a nervous passenger in general.

I didn't find Santiago cabbies that bad.

You must be a NASCAR driver.

Xenophobia necessarily implies ignorance? Now THAT'S ignorant.

No, xenophobia is just one of the many possible symptoms of ignorance.

The US has no official language.

Sorry.

Yes the US does have an official language...ratified by the Continental congress on a 17 to 16 vote. English over German.

Now that's the power of just one vote!!!

Of course it does. By refusing to accept or learn about other races and cultures, you are therefore ignorant of them.

Except, of course, not. I am not ignorant of Mexican culture. I am not ignorant of the reasons that they come here. I am well aware that the parents come to work, and often they are seperated from their children. I am aware they are starving and shit, hell, I am taking an anthropology class.

I am certainly not ignorant...and you know what?

I don't give a damn. :upyours:

I am certainly not ignorant...and you know what?

I don't give a damn. :upyours:
I love the smell of irony in the morning.
Oh, and...
I am well aware that the parents come to work
No, REALLY? You're so intellectual and insightful! I always thought that Mexicans just come to the USA to sit around on the pavement and eat tacos. Mexicans actually try to find WORK in America? Thank you for enlightening us peons! :rolleyes:

Except, of course, not. I am not ignorant of Mexican culture. I am not ignorant of the reasons that they come here. I am well aware that the parents come to work, and often they are seperated from their children. I am aware they are starving and shit, hell, I am taking an anthropology class.

I am certainly not ignorant...and you know what?

I don't give a damn. :upyours:


You are ignorant, clearly, and I doubt taking classes is going to help someone with such a closed mind.

Except, of course, not. I am not ignorant of Mexican culture. I am not ignorant of the reasons that they come here. I am well aware that the parents come to work, and often they are seperated from their children. I am aware they are starving and shit, hell, I am taking an anthropology class.

I am certainly not ignorant...and you know what?

I don't give a damn. :upyours:

Nice to talk to a grown up. I hope giving people the finger over the internet makes you feel big, as you obviously couldn't do it in real life could you.:rolleyes:

Cluichstan, I can confirm that many Peruvians do in fact speak Quechua, the language of the Incas.

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/cultural/southamerica/quechuan.html

EDIT: No, I am not a NASCAR driver (Jeff Gordon!), but I do ride my bicycle all year round in Montreal traffic. I fear nothing.

Except, of course, not. I am not ignorant of Mexican culture. I am not ignorant of the reasons that they come here. I am well aware that the parents come to work, and often they are seperated from their children. I am aware they are starving and shit, hell, I am taking an anthropology class.

I am certainly not ignorant...and you know what?

I don't give a damn. :upyours:

See... I am not too bothered by stupid, ignorant uneducated people who hold racist/sexist/homophobic/etc views. Because they don't know better.

However you do know better and still persist in those views.

Nice to talk to a grown up. I hope giving people the finger over the internet makes you feel big, as you obviously couldn't do it in real life could you.:rolleyes:

Nah, he'd probably end up getting his ass kicked my a Mexican midget. http://209.85.48.12/6802/45/emo/happy175%5B1%5D.gif

Suge globos meos. :)



Xenophobia necessarily implies ignorance? Now THAT'S ignorant.

Well it is usually a pretty good indicator of stupidity.

As long as they live in the United States and work in the United States with other immigrants and American people, they should.

At least they try to learn English. It will help themselves too. They might earn a better living if they could speak English.

Cluichstan, I can confirm that many Peruvians do in fact speak Quechua, the language of the Incas.

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/cultural/southamerica/quechuan.html


Just like many in the US speak Spanish. You miss my point. Spanish is readily available in schools here. Is Quechua a commonly taught subject in Peru?

EDIT: Oh, and please, call me Cluich. I'm a person, not a nation, here in General. ;)

In that usage then, yes, I am a xenophobe, a homophobe, and so forth and so on.
Well good luck with intensely disliking the majority of the world.

As I said. The intellectual elite.
Didn't I mention? philosophers don't actually speak latin, they learn off latin phrases that other philosophers said. Cogito ergo sum, for example.

Didn't I mention? philosophers don't actually speak latin, they learn off latin phrases that other philosophers said. Cogito ergo sum, for example.

I prefer "coito ergo sum." ;)

I'm throwing the bullshit card on this.


No, they do. Quechua is the second language of Peru, almost 50% speak it, 12% speak only Quechua and it's an official language. Quechua is also widespread in Bolivia, where it's also an official language, along with Guarani and Spanish.

I prefer "coito ergo sum." ;)

My personal favourite is Beati Hiberni, quibus vivere bibere est. That and non illegitamati carborundum.

No, they do. Quechua is the second language of Peru, almost 50% speak it, 12% speak only Quechua and it's an official language. Quechua is also widespread in Bolivia, where it's also an official language, along with Guarani and Spanish.

So it's required learning, eh?

Yes, the racist card. Wonderful. Mexicans aren't a different race, ffs.
I was apologising for using the wrong label. I wasn't playing the race card. :p

I'm going to call bullshit on this one. Provide a supporting source, please.

Regarding the written test: They do have the option of taking the test in Spanish.

Regarding the translator during the Driving Test: It depends on the actual location. Some locations have bilingual instructors for the driving test while others don't.

Unfortunately, I cannot come up with an online source but can provide the phone number to my local DMV. I have already called them and questioned them and she told me exactly what my current posts "Regarding" has just stated.

Here's the phone #: 727 847-8165

Yes, the racist card. Wonderful. Mexicans aren't a different race, ffs.

Again, Mexicans aren't a different race. And you're really niether. You're just an ignoramus.


Latin-American races are distinct from the various European races that make up a lot of the American population, they are generally descended from a combination of the native populations, the spanish and portugese settlers and the balck slaves the settlers brought with them - with the odd other european group thrown in. Interbreeding between the groups led to various 'Latin' ethnicities - the proportions of which varies with the region of central and south America you are looking at.

Regarding the written test: They do have the option of taking the test in Spanish.

Regarding the translator during the Driving Test: It depends on the actual location. Some locations have bilingual testers others don't.

Unfortunately, I cannot come up with an online source but can provide the phone number to my local DMV. I have already called them and questioned them and she told me exactly what my current posts "Regarding" has just stated.

Here's the phone #: 727 847-8165

Seems like you'll have a bilingual tester if the tester happens to be bilingual, it's not something you can expect, more something to hope for.

By definition, no. When I see a Mexican, I don't get the willys, I get really pissed off. I just wanna ....:upyours:... you know?

My OP isn't a Hate the Spanish speaking thread. Please, while you have the right to agree/disagree with people. let's not turn this post in a hate post. Thanks.

Latin-American races are distinct from the various European races that make up a lot of the American population, they are generally descended from a combination of the native populations, the spanish and portugese settlers and the balck slaves the settlers brought with them - with the odd other european group thrown in. Interbreeding between the groups led to various 'Latin' ethnicities - the proportions of which varies with the region of central and south America you are looking at.

With all of this intermingling, perhaps then, we should dispense with giving a flying fuck about what "race" a person is, eh? ;)

My OP isn't a Hate the Spanish speaking thread. Please, while you have the right to agree/disagree with people. let's not turn this post in a hate post. Thanks.


Don't worry about it. That's just what he does.

So it's required learning, eh?

In school? Apparently there's some basic Quechua, yes.

In school? Apparently there's some basic Quechua, yes.

Apparently? Ooookay... :rolleyes:

With all of this intermingling, perhaps then, we should dispense with giving a flying fuck about what "race" a person is, eh? ;)

Depends on how you want to view race.

If you find it interesting in looking at human history, how peoples moveed across the world and how societies merged or diverged then race is a concept that is worth giving a fuck about, likewise if you are interested in the collective heritige of groups and how societies interact. There are also in some cases legitmite medical reasons for considerng what race a person is.

If someone feels that the only purpose of 'race' is an excuse to round people up and turn them into ash then they can swallow a pack of nails for all I care.

Apparently? Ooookay... :rolleyes:

The information on the Peruvian Ministerio de Educación says one of its objectives is:

Asegurar en los tres niveles educativos un enfoque intercultural, bilingüe, inclusivo, ambiental y comunitario en coordinación con las Direcciones Nacionales correspondientes.

So, bilingualism is there, but I can't determine how bilingual it is. At least not without doing a lot more digging or waiting until next week when my Peruvian friend comes back from vacation.

Does this happen Often?

Helping Recreational Boaters, Absolutely. However, the winter time isn't nearly as busy as it is in the summer times. It can get pretty crazy having my several radios going off and then my 2-line phone all at the same time. High stress to the Max.

As for the non-English speaking people calling, not to often. It did recently happen twice in less than a weeks time, which kind of frustrated me and hence felt it would be a good topic on NSG to discuss.

We do get quite a lot of calls from either the Greek or Spanish speaking people who do know the basics of English however some of them have very strong accents which makes it very difficult to understand and also the misuse of words can be confusing sometimes.

Thankyou for the link.

I notice though that the majority of the signs are either just pictograms or are pictograms with words.

Of the ones that are just words, the words are pretty common and the message is generally very short and simple - a very rudimenty knowlege of English would be plenty to get by.

You would need a much lower knowlege of the english language to know what the signs were going on about than you would to be able to read the questions themselves. Hence them allowing for translations of the questions.

First, you are welcome. :)

Secondly, that is why my OP is supposed to be or is intended to focus on mainly the people who only know 3 words in English, "No Speak English".

Apparently? Ooookay... :rolleyes:


I found this online:
http://www.minedu.gob.pe/dineibir/

It is, apparently, a program for rural parts of Peru where school is taught in indigenous languages.

I would then consider this as an official endorsement of Quechua as an officail language to be taught in school. I got into the Quecha tangent late in the discussion. How does it tie to the OP again?

No, this should be a choice.
However, it would help them a lot if they did.
Learn English, advance in America.
Don't learn English, your problem.

Yes, they should learn English. If they're unwilling to do so, they can always return home. If I were to move to their country, I would learn their language. There's no reason they shouldn't do the same if they move to mine.

Helping Recreational Boaters, Absolutely. However, the winter time isn't nearly as busy as it is in the summer times. It can get pretty crazy having my several radios going off and then my 2-line phone all at the same time. High stress to the Max.

As for the non-English speaking people calling, not to often. It did recently happen twice in less than a weeks time, which kind of frustrated me and hence felt it would be a good topic on NSG to discuss.

We do get quite a lot of calls from either the Greek or Spanish speaking people who do know the basics of English however some of them have very strong accents which makes it very difficult to understand and also the misuse of words can be confusing sometimes.

So you're Saying that in your Work, it is rare (i.e. if it happens Twice a week, it is noteworthy) that You encounter people who do not speak Enough english for you to Communicate effectively enough for you to Do your job.

So you're Saying that in your Work, it is rare (i.e. if it happens Twice a week, it is noteworthy) that You encounter people who do not speak Enough english for you to Communicate effectively enough for you to Do your job.

With certain people, Yes. Being out there on the open water, Communication is Key for good, timely service. The majority of boaters we deal with do know English. The few that speak little to no English arrises major Safety issues.

I'm also speaking for myself. We're a 24 hour operation, year round. I only work 40 hrs./wk, occasionally get OT. We have other people and captains who encounter the same problem. Safety should be #1 Priority. When our captains hook up to the disabled boaters, he normally instructs them on what to do during the hook up to tow to docking them safely. Communication is Key.

Again, I can only speak for myself and my experiences. I do know it happens to everybody else within the company. I just don't know how often.

I just thought it would make a good topic to discuss on NSG. I think I was right because it's being constantly discussed. So to me, this tells me that it is a topic of interest amongst NSG. :)

English should be legislated as the official language of the US and no tax-payer funded documents intended for domestic consmption or instruction should be printed in anything but English.

A passable knowledge of English should be required for citizenship.

If I move to Country X, I would expect to be required to learn Country X's language and, not unreasonably so.

I said yes, on the basis that it would certainly make their lives easier.

Unless I overlooked their posts, I'm curious to know the explanation of the "no, Spanish should be the Official Language" voters.

See... I am not too bothered by stupid, ignorant uneducated people who hold racist/sexist/homophobic/etc views. Because they don't know better. However you do know better and still persist in those views.

Precisely. I know about other cultures. I am not uneducated. I am not an idiot. I am fully aware of the existence of other cultural ideals and practices. In fact, it is BECAUSE of know of those ideals and practices that I am further strengthened in my racism. I am reinforced in thinking that their practices and customs and crap are inferior.

I said yes, on the basis that it would certainly make their lives easier.

Why should I give a damn what makes their lives better? They are foreigners.

Why should I give a damn what makes their lives better? They are foreigners.

Not if they immigrate, then they are Americans

Yes the US does have an official language...ratified by the Continental congress on a 17 to 16 vote. English over German.

Now that's the power of just one vote!!!

A-Hem - English over Dutch, if you please!

Not if they immigrate, then they are Americans

Any man who flies a national flag other than the stars and stripes and expresses a sentiment of loyalty to a land other than the US of A and speaks a language other than American English doesn't deserve to be called an American.

Any man who flies a national flag other than the stars and stripes and expresses a sentiment of loyalty to a land other than the US of A and speaks a language other than American English doesn't deserve to be called an American.

On what basis, there have been millions thought our history that have greatly contributed to it. If they are legally here and a law abiding citizen of this country , foreign born or not they deserve to be called American

Since English is our Primary language on the verge of becoming, what it should have been all along, our Official Language, I feel that those who don't speak more than the 3 words of "no speak english" is disrespectful to our Culture and our Land. I think that everybody should have the decency to learn atleast the basic language of whereever they may move.

On what basis, there have been millions thought our history that have greatly contributed to it. If they are legally here and a law abiding citizen of this country , foreign born or not they deserve to be called American

And throughout history, they put aside their own flags, their identification with their homeland, and their own language...and assimilated into the great melting pot we call the Red, White, and blue.

That's not what we are seeing here. They are invaders. They are foreigners. They are traitors to Uncle Sam.

I also find it to be a burden on the tax payers by having all of the governmental paperwork (for the most part) in two languages. That adds up fast. Also having on certain occasions, hiring of translators, etc... and so on.

Since English is our Primary language on the verge of becoming, what it should have been all along, our Official Language, I feel that those who don't speak more than the 3 words of "no speak english" is disrespectful to our Culture and our Land. I think that everybody should have the decency to learn atleast the basic language of whereever they may move.

They can try, but like has been pointed out history shows adult immigrants very rarely effectively command the language of their new home. It usually is the second generation that pick up up the slack

I think people should try yes but I have no delusions to their success.

They can try, but like has been pointed out history shows adult immigrants very rarely effectively command the language of their new home. It usually is the second generation that pick up up the slack

I think people should try yes but I have no delusions to their success.

My father had no trouble picking up English. He became a lawyer.

The friend he came here with was an English professor (both of them originally non-English speakers).

And throughout history, they put aside their own flags, their identification with their homeland, and their own language...and assimilated into the great melting pot we call the Red, White, and blue.

That's not what we are seeing here. They are invaders. They are foreigners. They are traitors to Uncle Sam.

Almost never have they done that right away. Though maybe it is because we are becoming something that people are no longer truly proud of but is better then living where they are from.

Any man who flies a national flag other than the stars and stripes and expresses a sentiment of loyalty to a land other than the US of A and speaks a language other than American English doesn't deserve to be called an American.

Any man who lauds the Nazi ideology doesn't deserve to be called an American.

True Americans fought against that bullshit in WWII. That bullshit lost. That you suck up to Hitlerian fantasies just means you're a loser, and you're Anti-American in every sense of the word. You know it, and you revel in your being rebellious - it helps your desperate need to feel superior - but you're too cowardly to admit it.

My father had no trouble picking up English. He became a lawyer.

The friend he came here with was an English professor (both of them originally non-English speakers).

Yet I have had friends who's parents just did not have the time working 60 - 80 hours a week to provide for their family to learn English

I have no doubt that some can but not all

Any man who lauds the Nazi ideology doesn't deserve to be called an American.

True Americans fought against that bullshit in WWII. That bullshit lost. That you suck up to Hitlerian fantasies just means you're a loser, and you're Anti-American in every sense of the word. You know it, and you revel in your being rebellious - it helps your desperate need to feel superior - but you're too cowardly to admit it.

But I still speak American English. :)

Almost never have they done that right away. Though maybe it is because we are becoming something that people are no longer truly proud of but is better then living where they are from.

So they are leeches. Thus the reason I have this for those Mexican rats: :upyours:

So they are leeches. Thus the reason I have this for those Mexican rats: :upyours:

Leaches are rats?

Leaches are rats?

Are you serious?

Living and being with Mexicans, Brazilians, French, Germans and so on this year I have compared and contrasted our cultures. And all of these other countries require a language, usually from elementary school on up. Mostly it is english, but many non native spanish speakers, like my friends from France also spoke spanish and english. I believe we should require a language from the age a child is entered into a school. It is not an option in most other countries and I believe it really helps in the long run..getting jobs being a huge one. So yes, Spanish Americans should learn english the best they can..but to further understand that difficulty we should try and learn another language ourselfs....


nothing makes me more mad when americans get pissed because a foreigner cannot speak proper english. our language is extrememly difficult to learn..so have feeling and respect that they are trying.

Are you serious?

Not entirely ... but when you just start throwing animal names around as an insult and use more then one in the same post it is rather silly

Not entirely ... but when you just start throwing animal names around as an insult and use more then one in the same post it is rather silly

Best two words to describe him yet

Almost never have they done that right away. Though maybe it is because we are becoming something that people are no longer truly proud of but is better then living where they are from.

Speak for yourself, as I am very proud to be an American. Though America may have many faults as does everybody else. I wave my flag continuosly and forever and proudly. I will always Love my Country. My country is my home.

But I still speak American English. :)

So do a lot of anti-American traitors. Your point?

Precisely. I know about other cultures. I am not uneducated. I am not an idiot. I am fully aware of the existence of other cultural ideals and practices. In fact, it is BECAUSE of know of those ideals and practices that I am further strengthened in my racism. I am reinforced in thinking that their practices and customs and crap are inferior.

Yeah, shite like kids worshipping the likes of Paris Hilton makes us superior. You're a frickin' genius.

But I still speak American English. :)

Barely, as if proven by this next post of yours...

So they are leeches. Thus the reason I have this for those Mexican rats: :upyours:

Leeches =/= rats. Completely different animals.

And that upyours smiley is oh-so-intelligent. Well played.

Not if they immigrate, then they are Americans

If they do so legally.

My father had no trouble picking up English. He became a lawyer.

The friend he came here with was an English professor (both of them originally non-English speakers).

Kudos to them. That's pretty freakin' cool. :D

Where from originally, if I might ask?

-snip-


nothing makes me more mad when americans get pissed because a foreigner cannot speak proper english. our language is extrememly difficult to learn..so have feeling and respect that they are trying.

Your last paragraph is very generalized. I think a lot of Americans do have compassion and understanding for the foreigners moving into our Great Country. Most Americans, as does the world, know that the English language is one of the hardest languages to master. We are, in my opinion, upset with those who do NOT try to learn and for those who outright refuse to learn.

I'm 100% okay with those who are trying to learn. :)

Of course. They are the ones that came here, and they should make the effort to learn our language and understand our culture.

So they are leeches. Thus the reason I have this for those Mexican rats: :upyours:

Learn to express your opinion of other people without trolling, or you'll be banned again.

NationStates Forum Moderator
HotRodia

USAmericans should learn spanish.

Stop being so ignorant.

Since English is our Primary language on the verge of becoming, what it should have been all along, our Official Language, I feel that those who don't speak more than the 3 words of "no speak english" is disrespectful to our Culture and our Land. I think that everybody should have the decency to learn atleast the basic language of whereever they may move.

Since English is our primary language and is on the verge of becoming what it should have been all along: our official language, I feel that those who don't speak more than the 3 words of "no speak english" are being disrespectful to our culture and our land. I think that everybody should have the decency to learn at least the basic language of wherever they may move.

Te correji el ingles.

USAmericans should learn spanish.

Stop being so ignorant.

Make me :P

I was here first.

What does road safety issues have to with signs? For people to have a driving license they must be able to grasp basic english and understand signs. they only want to change the signs so people will know where they're going.

unless they take the provided spanish language written test....

Make me :P

I was here first.

If thats the name of the game start learning Native American

Make me :P

I was here first.

Really? You were here in the 18th century? Wow...and I thought I was one of the old guys on this forum...

If thats the name of the game start learning Native American
Which language? I could try Cherokee. I think there are some nearby. :D

Really? You were here in the 18th century? Wow...and I thought I was one of the old guys on this forum...
Well considering DNA history...

The US has no official language.

Sorry.See amendment 104 of Senate Bill 2611: A bill to provide for comprehensive immigration reform and for other purposes (CIRA). I was passed on 5/25/2006. http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:SN02611:
I believe it was needs to be passed by the House of Representatives now.
To amend title 4 United States Code, to declare English as the national language of the United States and to promote the patriotic integration of prospective US citizens.

In all countries there is a de facto official language of business and usually of government as well. In the interests of smooth integration and effciency all residents should be required to learn the de facto language. There should an educational structured course in place that reflects the needs of most users. It should include ares of communication such as: general , consumer, health and safet, grammer, other work, medical, etc... To prevent problems with the take up of the language the government should either provide grants for those from less well off back grounds to attend such courses or make such courses freely available to all. For instance if the whole country was able to decipher legal language in contracts and hence be more aware of their rights and what they're signing up to whenever they sign a contract.

Well considering DNA history...

...yes? Considering DNA history, what? Do explain how similar DNA is equatable with your self. I am a chimpanzee.

-snip-
Te correji el ingles.

are you sure "correji" is a spanish word or that it is atleast spelled correctly.

Te=you correji=? el=the ingles=English



http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dict_en_es/search;_ylt=AoROO7vGYtJ2l7KvAXOpbKdEycsF?p=correji

also, shouldn't it be "los ingles" unless you intended "ingles" to mean groin which is also spelled "ingles" in spanish.

See amendment 104 of Senate Bill 2611: A bill to provide for comprehensive immigration reform and for other purposes (CIRA). I was passed on 5/25/2006. http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:SN02611:
I believe it was needs to be passed by the House of Representatives now.

-snip-


You are correct in it being passed in the Senate in May of 2006 and is currently sitting in the House waiting for them to go over some of the amendments and if it passes there, it'll go to the President's desk.

I believe I had already said that, you may have overlooked it. ;)

USAmericans should learn spanish.

Stop being so ignorant.

American Spanish or Spanish Spanish?

Well considering DNA history...

That's not you. That would be your ancestors (and some of mine, too). Get over it.

are you sure "correji" is a spanish word or that it is atleast spelled correctly.

corregí is what the poster meant.

also, shouldn't it be "los ingles" unless you intended "ingles" to mean groin which is also spelled "ingles" in spanish.

el inglés. ingle is groin, ingles being the plural. Notice the accent, though, which means that the pronunciation is different.

What if you move to US at age 70. Its hard for an elder to learn a whole new language. Especially when you spend all your days in the home. I think road signs are pretty easy to understand because numbers (writen in these characters 12345) translate easily and a big red octagon always makes sense.
I don't think you need to change official language to Spanish but if people are happy speaking spanish when surrounded by English I don't see much of a consequence for english speakers.

are you sure "correji" is a spanish word or that it is atleast spelled correctly.

Te=you correji=? el=the ingles=English



http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dict_en_es/search;_ylt=AoROO7vGYtJ2l7KvAXOpbKdEycsF?p=correji

also, shouldn't it be "los ingles" unless you intended "ingles" to mean groin which is also spelled "ingles" in spanish.

That's hilarious! I am such a moron!

After I finished laughing at myself, I had to respond. I should have typed "corregi".

I was merely pointing out the irony that I, a spanish speaking immigrant, was correcting your english. I failed, due to my horrible typing skills.

corregí is what the poster meant.



el inglés. ingle is groin, ingles being the plural. Notice the accent, though, which means that the pronunciation is different.


How do you get the accents? I am typing with a french keyboard, if that helps. éçàèê.

You are correct in it being passed in the Senate in May of 2006 and is currently sitting in the House waiting for them to go over some of the amendments and if it passes there, it'll go to the President's desk.

I believe I had already said that, you may have overlooked it. ;)Eh... most likely. I tend to not read through an entire thread if it's over 5 pages long. I'm just impatient. That and... welll... maybe I like the look of my own posts. *ahem*

Any man who flies a national flag other than the stars and stripes and expresses a sentiment of loyalty to a land other than the US of A and speaks a language other than American English doesn't deserve to be called an American.

Its only americans that fly flags. Not many others are so full of themselves.

How do you get the accents? I am typing with a french keyboard, if that helps. éçàèê.

I was wondering that too. So you know about your mistyped post. No worries. It happens to the best of us. Definately not moronic but very much hilarious. I was a bit confused at first, trying to figure it out. ;)

Any man who flies a national flag other than the stars and stripes and expresses a sentiment of loyalty to a land other than the US of A and speaks a language other than American English doesn't deserve to be called an American.
So... if someone lives in America, is an American citizen but speaks Canadian or British English (or any other variation on English), they therefore do not deserve to be called 'American'?

Its only americans that fly flags. Not many others are so full of themselves.

The Soviets were, but they're gone now...

Eh... most likely. I tend to not read through an entire thread if it's over 5 pages long. I'm just impatient. That and... welll... maybe I like the look of my own posts. *ahem*

I understand. Similarily, I do the same. However, typically when I do that people get much harsher with me than I did with you. It's cool. It actually is kinda good to have a refresher on a thread with so many pages/posts. ;)

So... if someone lives in America, is an American citizen but speaks Canadian or British English (or any other variation on English), there are therefore do not deserve to be called 'American'?

Repeat after me Toque, Lorri
UR NOT AN AMURICAN NOW!111

Its only americans that fly flags. Not many others are so full of themselves.

Yeah, it's only the US. Evil, self-absorbed Americans.

I dunno...saw tons of other flags fluttering around during the World Cup. Gee...maybe those nations are full of themselves, too.

Its only americans that fly flags. Not many others are so full of themselves.

Might want to rethink that next time the World Cup is on

Yeah, it's only the US. Evil, self-absorbed Americans.

I dunno...saw tons of other flags fluttering around during the World Cup. Gee...maybe those nations are full of themselves, too.

No they are just sports fans

Repeat after me Toque, Lorri
UR NOT AN AMURICAN NOW!111
:D Nice.

I think that should be up to them. If they can get by without speaking English, let them.

many of these people arent illegal, therefore they dont have the right to choose whether or not america should speak spanish. You europeans don't have 2 million illegal immigrants pouring into your borders every year. this is a bigger problem then you can fathom, and we'd like to keep some part of our culture the same, this is after all america...not mexico... its our country, not some illegal's.

Its only americans that fly flags. Not many others are so full of themselves.

I don't consider waving a flag to equal people being "so full of themselves" I can really only speak about myself as to not generalize it. I definately am not full of myself. I am very critical of myself to be classified as being full of myself. I do, enjoy flying my American Flag.

No they are just sports fans

'k, and you're just an anti-American twit. Glad we could settle that.

No they are just sports fans

So it's okay to be proud of your country when it's competing in a sporting event, but wrong when you're just proud in general?

Its only americans that fly flags. Not many others are so full of themselves.

oh so nationalism is now a reason to hate america too...now i get it...

So it's okay to be proud of your country when it's competing in a sporting event, but wrong when you're just proud in general?

Only if you're from the US, it seems. :rolleyes:

No they are just sports fans

How about the people from the Middle East. Most of those countries are always flying their flags or atleast when the news is about them they show the flag waving muslims

How do you get the accents? I am typing with a french keyboard, if that helps. éçàèê.

Yes, it helps a lot because it has the extra keys needed for the extra symbols without missing any. Just go to Control Panel -> Regional and Languages Options, the Languages tab -> Details -> Add... and add Spanish and a keyboard layout.

I have a French keyboard at home and it works well. It also works in English keyboards, like I have here at work, but you have to switch between languages to write < > or [ ]

How about the people from the Middle East. Most of those countries are always flying their flags or atleast when the news is about them they show the flag waving muslims

Haven't you learned? Things are only bad when people in the US do them. :rolleyes:

Haven't you learned? Things are only bad when people in the US do them. :rolleyes:

Right

In that case, I'm very full of myself as I see to it that I wave my flag daily in front of my house. It actually feels good to be so full of myself. :D

I currently have a "bald eagle" tatooed on my bicep and am planning on adding to the tatoo with an American Flag. I am definately, full of myself.

Yes, it helps a lot because it has the extra keys needed for the extra symbols without missing any. Just go to Control Panel -> Regional and Languages Options, the Languages tab -> Details -> Add... and add Spanish and a keyboard layout.

I have a French keyboard at home and it works well. It also works in English keyboards, like I have here at work, but you have to switch between languages to write < > or [ ]

-.,}{+éi´´íáú

Corregí.

cool.

Yes, duh. If I went to live and work in Mexico, or Russia, or Netherlands, I would at least make a distinct effort to learn the native language.

I believe that people who live here should have the right to speak whatever language they want. I would prefer that they speak English to make my life easier, but it's not anyone's place to tell them that. However, I believe that anyone who goes through public school in America should learn English.

Make me :P

I was here first.
Oh? What tribe do you belong to?
American Spanish or Spanish Spanish?
Spanish Spanish.

Look at Europe, most of the people know at least two languages, so why shouldn't USAmericans?

<OP>

Not that they shouldn't learn a little English, but why don't you make the effort to learn a little Spanish? It's not that tough. Or is your contention that it's their job to adapt because you ought to be able to define your own environment? And you still claim to believe in god? It's inflexible, myopic, egocentric, selfish, pompous, spoiled Kool-Aid drinkers like you who are ruining my country. Please stop. If you would bend just a little and think about someone besides yourself instead of constantly berating others for not doing so, then we could probably all get along.

They should be either fined, imprisoned or deported if they don't.

The US is a predominantly English speaking country. The people who live here should speak English, if they have to speak Spanish they should become billingual. To be honest, I think everyone who speaks English learn Spanish and everyone who speaks Spanish learn English, among other languages more as well. Hell, we need a good overhaul of our education.

EDITED FOR LACK OF SELF RESTRAINT.
Bigot.

Look at Europe, most of the people know at least two languages, so why shouldn't USAmericans?

US Americans are definitely woefully behind the times in regards to language.

However, it's a two-way street. Spanish-speaking individuals, and any immigrants at all, should learn the language of the region they plan on living and working in. Sure, in Europe, most everybody is bilingual. Do people just move there and refuse to learn the language of the region they live in? It just seems counter-productive.

The US is a predominantly English speaking country. The people who live here should speak English, if they have to speak Spanish they should become billingual. To be honest, I think everyone who speaks English learn Spanish and everyone who speaks Spanish learn English, among other languages more as well. Hell, we need a good overhaul of our education.

I'm already taking a language: Latin. Just from learning that, I could figure out enough Spanish to read the signs in Miami in places that only had signs in Spanish. But I don't want to learn to speak Spanish because I don't like talking. Talking is not much fun. I'd like to learn to read it, though.

I couldn't hurt either group to learn another language. But that generally isn't what is being proposed...it's "you come here, you learn English you stupid spic" instead of, "hey, you know what? Being bilingual is a GOOD thing for us too!"

Why don't you both meet in the middle, and when you're there, you can choose which language to speak in, because you are fluent in both?

Cripes...the majority of people in this world speak more than one language...what is it with North Americans?

The problem, I think, is that we are afraid to lose our national identity. We have been, since our founding, a nation of primarily English speakers. I would not like to see that change.

In that way, we're no different than those European nations responding xenophobically to immigration of muslims from North Africa.

No.

Why should they have to change their lives to appease a few white people? Why not change everything to please them(the spanish speakers)?

Mi preferas cxu esperanton igxi lingvo usana. :)

In terms of cost, it would be much cheaper to have the Spanish speakers learn English than vice versa. When a family from Connecticut goes to Miami for a vacation, wouldn't it make more sense for the people in Miami to know English (so they can deal with tourists year round) than the people from Connecticut to know Spanish (so they can deal with Miami for a week)?

No.

Why should they have to change their lives to appease a few white people? Why not change everything to please them(the spanish speakers)?

Maybe because the white people are the majority? Or because it's an English speaking country. But hey, why not spice things up?

The problem, I think, is that we are afraid to lose our national identity. We have been, since our founding, a nation of primarily English speakers. I would not like to see that change.

In that way, we're no different than those European nations responding xenophobically to immigration of muslims from North Africa.

Yes! A rational, thought out argument! Thank you. :)

OK, I would like to submit the idea that "English speaking" as a component of our national identity is counter to the more general component of the "melting pot." It seems, from the foundational documents and general history as well as what we are currently taught in civics classes, that America is supposed to be a "formless nation." By which I mean, a nation that may be comprised of any people from any cultural background, provided they share a common belief in supporting life and liberty for all. All, as in everyone, not just citizens, but all people everywhere. "All men are created equal." I think that multilingualism would actually help cement this national identity and would have several beneficial consequences. I DON'T think the federal or even state government should have to pay for it or get involved at all unless people are hurting each other over it, and then only so far as to stop the people who are hurting others. If a community of Muslims decides they'd like to pay for road signs in Arabic for their community, I say go for it. If Chinese business owners want to put signs on their stores in Chinese, I say that's great. If local Hispanic politicians want to print voting materials in Spanish for their constituents, I say it's a good thing. There's no real reason why someone can't indicate their language of preference on their voter registration card the same way they indicate their political party.

To me, it adds color and opportunity when I walk into a store with a sign in Vietnamese and ask they guy at the front desk, "What is it you guys do here?" It has helped me learn all kinds of things and to understand how other people think and what their perspective is. Sometimes their English is really bad, but that's OK, because my Vietnamese/Arabic/Chinese/Tagalog/Russian/Yiddish/etc. is horrible. We always manage to work it out. All it takes is patience and compassion, and a willingness to understand and get the job done. Those are the principles that I believe America was founded on, and I think it would be a really good thing if we could get them back in the modern perspective and rid ourselves of the bigotry and xenophobia that our founders were trying to escape when they came here in the first place.

Several American states are becoming bilingual... there's nothing really wrong with that.

Except all those things are just promoting minority groups to huddle up in cloisters, making their opinions and ideas less accessible to the general public. The 'melting pot' idea is people from all societies being able to intermingle, and a common language greatly facilitates that. English being the most commonly spoken language makes it the best candidate for the standard language. Making it the standard language is not trying to rob minorities of their background; a Vietnamese person is no less Vietnamese for speaking English.

Except all those things are just promoting minority groups to huddle up in cloisters, making their opinions and ideas less accessible to the general public. The 'melting pot' idea is people from all societies being able to intermingle, and a common language greatly facilitates that. English being the most commonly spoken language makes it the best candidate for the standard language. Making it the standard language is not trying to rob minorities of their background; a Vietnamese person is no less Vietnamese for speaking English.

If you were reading what I said at all, you'd see that the "huddling in cloisters" scenario is patent nonsense. Even if we were to assume they WERE hiding out like bandits in the woods, which is ridiculous, I'm going INTO the woods and talking with them in whatever commonly understandable form of communication we can arrive at. Some of it's English, some of it's whatever they speak, some of it's gestures and pointing at shit. The POINT is this:

All it takes is patience and compassion, and a willingness to understand and get the job done.

Making English the standard language IS trying to force anyone who doesn't speak English to change who they are and how they think because those who already speak English are too fucking lazy to get up off their asses and get the job done. The "melting pot" doesn't mean "everyone who wants to participate has to do this thing," whether that's speaking one language, or cracking their eggs from the big end, or wearing their hair in the same style. Intermingling is just that, intermingling. Common language doesn't have anything to do with it, and doesn't really facilitate anything except alienating those who don't already speak it and making them feel inferior.

The "common language" is not a now thing, it's a result of the melting pot. If we pull this off, then eventually there will be an "American" language that consists of several elements pulled from every language of every culture that exists in this great melting pot. If we speak English and they speak Chinese, then our kids, theirs and ours, will speak a little bit of both, then their kids will mix it up a little more, and eventually there will be a functional language comprised of elements of both that our great-great-great grandchildren will speak. How do you think English came to be in the first place? If everyone 700 years ago had your attitude, there would still be many of us speaking distinct "white" languages and English wouldn't even exist for you to try to force people to learn it.

I think that should be up to them. If they can get by without speaking English, let them.

I completely agree. It's none of the government's business what people speak.

Bodacious王様、すみません国語分かりますか？　僕は外国人ですそして英語を話します、でも日本に住んでいます。　日本で英語を少し話す。　日本語むずかしてだから僕がジェスターとピックチャーとカタカナ 英語を売れます。

Have you every tried to live in another country, speaking another language? Have you ever been faced with a phone call with an impacient native speaker who will not slow down or simplify their language for you to understand? Have you tried to be outside of your own culture and language and survive? Do you have any idea what "The basics" are in a language and how much language is actually needed to 'get' the gist of a conversation?

Of course you do not. You have already shown this.

Perhaps you should try to walk in the shoes of a language learner, you may be amazed at what you learn!

Not that they shouldn't learn a little English, but why don't you make the effort to learn a little Spanish? It's not that tough. Or is your contention that it's their job to adapt because you ought to be able to define your own environment? And you still claim to believe in god? It's inflexible, myopic, egocentric, selfish, pompous, spoiled Kool-Aid drinkers like you who are ruining my country. Please stop. If you would bend just a little and think about someone besides yourself instead of constantly berating others for not doing so, then we could probably all get along.

I have and am considering learning a little Spanish, so to be somewhat bilingual.

Yes, I feel that complete English nonspeaking citizens in the USA ought to learn a little English.

Yes I do believe in God.

I don't know how you got all of those name calling ideas out of my OP.

I'm constantly thinking of others over myself. You don't know who I am therefore you cannot tell me who or what I am. Where in the world did you come up with accusing me of berating anybody out of my post. I thought I was very fair in my OP and my replies. Nothing berating, Nothing Racist, etc...

Your reply and your false accusations just goes to show how dilusional you really are.

By accusing me of being a Kool-Aid drinker, similarly reminds me of Bill O'Reilly. Are you a fan of his? If so, cool. I like Bill.

Why the OP speaks about latin people specifically?

And well, I am a spanish native speaker, and yet I have at least a flawed english.

How many of you can say the same on viceversa?

My point is that usually there are more spanish native speakers that speak english than english native speakers that speak spanish.

Bodacious王様、すみません国語分かりますか？　僕は外国人ですそして英語を話します、でも日本に住んでいます。　日本で英語を少し話す。　日本語むずかしてだから僕がジェスターとピックチャーとカタカナ 英語を売れます。

Have you every tried to live in another country, speaking another language? Have you ever been faced with a phone call with an impacient native speaker who will not slow down or simplify their language for you to understand? Have you tried to be outside of your own culture and language and survive? Do you have any idea what "The basics" are in a language and how much language is actually needed to 'get' the gist of a conversation?

Of course you do not. You have already shown this.

Perhaps you should try to walk in the shoes of a language learner, you may be amazed at what you learn!

No I have not lived in another country, back in HS i did take 2 years of French.
No, I don't make Intn'l phone calls. As for recieving calls from the foreigners at my job, I do respect them by clearly, slowly, and choose my words carefully to make it easier. My post came in light when I had to call a person for business purposes and they didn't know any English except for 3 words, "No Speak English".
If I were to move to another country, I would definately make an effort to learn their language, Absolutely.
I feel you have taking my OP way out of text which shows how close minded you really are.
As I just recently explained, I do have intentions on learning Spanish. I have spanish friends who know their native language and also know English for Lifes a whole lot easier on them knowing the Primary Language of any Nation.

My post came in light when I had to call a person for business purposes and they didn't know any English except for 3 words, "No Speak English".


How do you know that was all they knew?

Could it be that they just could not be bothered with the call, quickly (if poorly) told you they don't speak english and then hung up to get on with the rest of their day?

How do you know that was all they knew?

Could it be that they just could not be bothered with the call, quickly (if poorly) told you they don't speak english and then hung up to get on with the rest of their day?

Then they should have been aware of the importance of the call considering in my line of business we help disabled/stranded boaters out on the water. They chose to join as a member. They chose to have some sort of towing insurance in case they did become disabled. They had just bought a boat. Signed up to my company to save them if they ever needed Help on the Water. Sounds pretty important to me. That the company that's going to be there when needed has all the correct information. If we don't have the correct information, how can they expect good service when they call if they break down on the water.

Have you ever been broken down in a boat out in Open Water, No other boaters around? It's a service They chose to have. We offer Towing Insurance. We aren't an Insurance Agency but we are in the Marine Industry that offers the average Joe for a low annual membership fee for Free Towing on the water. Non-Members are paying $200/hr from the time our Capt'n Leaves his dock to the time he returns to His Dock, Towing at 6 knots. It's easy to surpass the $1000 mark if you are 10 miles or further offshore.

Then they should have been aware of the importance of the call considering in my line of business we help disabled/stranded boaters out on the water.

That is important to you, but are you sure that is important to them?

No I have not lived in another country, back in HS i did take 2 years of French.
So, you have no way to judge what this person has learned or experienced, or even how long she has been in the United States.

No, I don't make Intn'l phone calls. As for recieving calls from the foreigners at my job, I do respect them by clearly, slowly, and choose my words carefully to make it easier. My post came in light when I had to call a person for business purposes and they didn't know any English except for 3 words, "No Speak English".
See above. You don't know how long she has studied, you don't know what it is like to attempt to be a second language learner (as opposed to an FLL), but yet you feel that somehow she is sitting in the country making no effort to learn English. And all this from three words over the phone. Damn dude, you work for the Psychic Friends Network or something?

If I were to move to another country, I would definately make an effort to learn their language, Absolutely.
But you don't know just how fun that would be. I could give you a very simple line in Japanese and you wouldn't have a clue what it meant, even though this line would be the one you'd use right off the plane. Language learning isn't the French classes you took in high school, not for actual communication.

I feel you have taking my OP way out of text which shows how close minded you really are.
No, I come to you as someone who is in the same situation as the woman you're pissed off at. I come as an SLL in a situation where, some days, the only proper English I encounter is NSG (sadly), and so I think I have a MUCH better grasp on what that woman may be going though than you. I also come as a professional EFL teacher who knows just how damn hard it is to teach English to speakers of other languages and how difficult it is for a language learner to actually get to be communicatively functional.

Off hand, since I consider all of the above and you do not... well, I'm not seeing myself as the one being closed minded. After all, your own posts in this thread have shown you to not even know the language requirements needed for US citizenship.

As I just recently explained, I do have intentions on learning Spanish. I have spanish friends who know their native language and also know English for Lifes a whole lot easier on them knowing the Primary Language of any Nation.
Yes, it is, but tell me, where do you get the idea that it would be an easy, quick, process to pick up spoken language? Hmm?

Here's an easy sentence. You tell me, can you understand? １枚自由席新宿駅までお願いします。

That is important to you, but are you sure that is important to them?

Well, if it isn't important to them, it should be. Have you ever been broken down in a boat offshore? You damn well better believe it'll be important then. It's not fun being dead in the water offshore. You get a sense of panic, helplessness, and so on. Definately not fun being broken offshore.

Coast Guard used to do all the towing but now maritime laws have been passed and the Coast Guard only assists in Life threatening situations. Being disabled in a boat is not a life threatening situation unless you have been out there for about 3 days.

Why should I give a damn what makes their lives better? They are foreigners.

Because once upon a time, most Americans ancestors were foreigners.

Well, if it isn't important to them, it should be. Have you ever been broken down in a boat offshore? You damn well better believe it'll be important then. It's not fun being dead in the water offshore. You get a sense of panic, helplessness, and so on. Definately not fun being broken offshore.

Coast Guard used to do all the towing but now maritime laws have been passed and the Coast Guard only assists in Life threatening situations. Being disabled in a boat is not a life threatening situation unless you have been out there for about 3 days.

And what if they don't like boats, or just don't own one and are unlikely going to buy one or ever ride one? I haven't been broken down in a boat offshore, because perhaps I haven't been in a boat offshore, so perhaps I would tell you "no english!", if you ever call me. For me, your call is not important.

So, you have no way to judge what this person has learned or experienced, or even how long she has been in the United States.

When did I ever claim to place judgement on anybody? When did I ever claim to know this lady's life story?

See above. You don't know how long she has studied, you don't know what it is like to attempt to be a second language learner (as opposed to an FLL), but yet you feel that somehow she is sitting in the country making no effort to learn English. And all this from three words over the phone. Damn dude, you work for the Psychic Friends Network or something?

I only used her as an example to my OP, I never claimed anything nor did I judge her in anyway. No, I do NOT work for no "Psychic Friends Network"

But you don't know just how fun that would be. I could give you a very simple line in Japanese and you wouldn't have a clue what it meant, even though this line would be the one you'd use right off the plane. Language learning isn't the French classes you took in high school, not for actual communication.

No, I come to you as someone who is in the same situation as the woman you're pissed off at. I come as an SLL in a situation where, some days, the only proper English I encounter is NSG (sadly), and so I think I have a MUCH better grasp on what that woman may be going though than you. I also come as a professional EFL teacher who knows just how damn hard it is to teach English to speakers of other languages and how difficult it is for a language learner to actually get to be communicatively functional.

When did I ever say that I was pissed at the woman? I believe, I used the word "frustrated" never did I say I was pissed off about it. Again, I only used her as an example to my poll. I never claimed to know her life history or story at any time. I also, never claimed that English is an easy language to learn. I do believe I already mentioned that it is one of the hardest languages to learn. Must be nice to pick and choose and to twist and to assume whatever your heart desires. Freedom isn't it Great.

Off hand, since I consider all of the above and you do not... well, I'm not seeing myself as the one being closed minded. After all, your own posts in this thread have shown you to not even know the language requirements needed for US citizenship.

There you go, assuming again. I was unaware of the English not being the Official Language, I have since then corrected my errors (God Bless NSG, what a Great Learning Tool). Fact is that English is the Primary language and is also having a bill sitting in the House waiting for them to pass it. It has already been passed in the Senate to make it the Official Language back in May of 2006.

Yes, it is, but tell me, where do you get the idea that it would be an easy, quick, process to pick up spoken language? Hmm?

Please show me where I claimed it to be "an easy, quick, process to pick up spoken language"? "Hmm?"

Here's an easy sentence. You tell me, can you understand? １枚自由席新宿駅までお願いします。

(NOTE: Bold type is my reply. The Bold is NOT part of the Quote by Nervun)

Yes, I believe that those who choose to live in America should learn at least some English.

As for Spanish...I'm kicking myself for choosing to learn French instead. I took a year of Russian as well, but Spanish would have been a lot more helpful.

As an example of that "melting pot", my ancestors were, English, Irish, Scottish, German, French, Slovak, with a little bit of Cherokee thrown in for good measure. Did most of them speak English when they arrived? Heck no! Did they learn at least enough English to get by? Hell yeah! It's common sense.

That being said, I have a certain bias on immigration. I get annoyed over the hullabaloo, because (to me) it's obviously based in fear and ignorance. Fear that America will change too much if we allow Spanish to coexist with English. Ignorance of history and other cultures. Fear of "foreigners", fear of being taken over, ignorance of how exactly America came to be so big and powerful, etc.

And the Mexicans...work the jobs the rest of us don't want. They do the dangerous, dirty work around here. They also make good food. :p They add to our culture (which is sorely lacking) and if they're nice, they'll teach us to dance. I like that thought.

Honestly, it's just a question of pragmatism! If I was going to move to Germany, I'd learn some bloody German even though I could probably count on a great many Germans to speak better English than I do. It's useful to speak the primary language in the country you live in. It's not about "national identity" or any of that crap.

Honestly, it's just a question of pragmatism! If I was going to move to Germany, I'd learn some bloody German even though I could probably count on a great many Germans to speak better English than I do. It's useful to speak the primary language in the country you live in. It's not about "national identity" or any of that crap.

As would I. It only makes sense to learn the language of the country you're going to be spending time in.

When did I ever claim to place judgement on anybody? When did I ever claim to know this lady's life story?
You are using her as a catalyst for your post. You DID say that you thought that, being in the US, she should learn English. What am I supposed to draw from that then?

I only used her as an example to my OP, I never claimed anything nor did I judge her in anyway. No, I do NOT work for no "Psychic Friends Network"

See above.

When did I ever say that I was pissed at the woman? I believe, I used the word "frustrated" never did I say I was pissed off about it. Again, I only used her as an example to my poll. I never claimed to know her life history or story at any time. I also, never claimed that English is an easy language to learn. I do believe I already mentioned that it is one of the hardest languages to learn. Must be nice to pick and choose and to twist and to assume whatever your heart desires. Freedom isn't it Great.

So you say, and yet you are 'frustrated' that this woman doesn't know English, and create a poll which in effect states that you think immigrants (Spanish speaking ones only, mind you) are not learning English. You make NO allowances for what it takes to get to a communicative level. It's not an either you know the language or you don't, there's a lot of levels in there that you are blissfully skipping over here.

There you go, assuming again. I was unaware of the English not being the Official Language, I have since then corrected my errors (God Bless NSG, what a Great Learning Tool). Fact is that English is the Primary language and is also having a bill sitting in the House waiting for them to pass it. It has already been passed in the Senate to make it the Official Language back in May of 2006.
Actually, no, there isn't. Said bill would acknowledge English as the national language, not official (Important difference there). It would direct federal offices to use English on all official documents, not forbid them from being published in another language or forbid the use of other languages in federal offices. And finally, that damn bill is an amendment attached, IIRC, to the immigration reform that the House GOP refuses to take up. There's no way in hell that the lame duck Congress will touch it with a ten foot poll before exiting stage right.

And I have a feeling Sen Reid, being against the original bill, may just kill it the second time around as majority leader.

Please show me where I claimed it to be "an easy, quick, process to pick up spoken language"? "Hmm?"
Again, you take a black and white stance on language learning, what else am I supposed to take from such a stance?

And what if they don't like boats, or just don't own one and are unlikely going to buy one or ever ride one? I haven't been broken down in a boat offshore, because perhaps I haven't been in a boat offshore, so perhaps I would tell you "no english!", if you ever call me. For me, your call is not important.

Thanks for NOT paying attention. I had earlier stated that they do have an annual membership with my company. Therefore, They do have a boat. In fact a brand new boat. To you since you don't have a boat in reality would never hear from me.

These people do own a New Boat and agreed to a years membership that offers them local knowledge, Free Towing, etc.... It was a business call to get their correct information regarding their membership that THEY chose to get. Am I speaking in clear English? Some here are making me wonder. :rolleyes:

Thanks for NOT paying attention. I had earlier stated that they do have an annual membership with my company. Therefore, They do have a boat. In fact a brand new boat. To you since you don't have a boat in reality would never hear from me.

These people do own a New Boat and agreed to a years membership that offers them local knowledge, Free Towing, etc.... It was a business call to get their correct information regarding their membership that THEY chose to get. Am I speaking in clear English? Some here are making me wonder. :rolleyes:

Perhaps I did not understand clearly. Or didn't read carefully. But then...How the hell did they bought a boat if they don't speak english?

Maybe the maid raised the phone...

Perhaps I did not understand clearly. Or didn't read carefully. But then...How the hell did they bought a boat if they don't speak english?

Maybe the maid raised the phone...

I did taxes for a couple last year that were here illegally and had two houses, two cars, and their own business.

They had a tax ID number so that they could get a tax refund for the wife, and EIC for the kids.

They paid no taxes in (other than Medicare/SS tax) and got a refund of $6K dollars, when I called the IRS to ask them what they were going to do about it, I got the reply "it's not our business call Immigration" whom I did call and said "if they didn't break any laws why are you calling us? we are busy"

neither of them spoke English, I had to explain to the kid the best I could and listen to make sure he explained to them as best I could understand with my limited Spanish skills.

I did taxes for a couple last year that were here illegally and had two houses, two cars, and their own business.

They had a tax ID number so that they could get a tax refund for the wife, and EIC for the kids.

They paid no taxes in (other than Medicare/SS tax) and got a refund of $6K dollars, when I called the IRS to ask them what they were going to do about it, I got the reply "it's not our business call Immigration" whom I did call and said "if they didn't break any laws why are you calling us? we are busy"

neither of them spoke English, I had to explain to the kid the best I could and listen to make sure he explained to them as best I could understand with my limited Spanish skills.

And they were from?

And they were from?

Chihuahua.

(Mexico)

They had the kids here though, so apparently they are in legal limbo as to whether they get to stay or not.

You are using her as a catalyst for your post. You DID say that you thought that, being in the US, she should learn English. What am I supposed to draw from that then?

I stated in the OP, that people should make an EFFORT, key word, to learn the primary language which is English in America. More than 80% speak English in America which leaves a little less than 20% that don't. You're going to draw the picture any way you choose but I really don't think you read all of my replies on this subject. Sure, it's quite possible that I misstated/misworded certain statements or even situations. Afterall, I am Human and I don't profess to be perfect in speaking 100% Proper English, I may have a certain percentage of dilixia on occasion, etc... This was a simple generalized, if I may, topic of whether or not people should make an EFFORT, key word, to learn the Primary Language. In Fact, this can be directed to ANY Nation. ]

See above.

So you say, and yet you are 'frustrated' that this woman doesn't know English, and create a poll which in effect states that you think immigrants (Spanish speaking ones only, mind you) are not learning English. You make NO allowances for what it takes to get to a communicative level. It's not an either you know the language or you don't, there's a lot of levels in there that you are blissfully skipping over here.

Why do you assume to take out the worse cases in interpreting my posts? I never said, that Spanish, mind you, are not learning English. NEVER. Fact is, there are some foreigners who don't feel the need to learn the nation's primary language. Again, this is a simple Generalized poll and OP. If you say that every Spanish speaking person living in America is making an Effort to learn English, You leave me no choice in calling you out on BS. I beg to differ. The poll is "Should the American Spanish (meaning Spanish speaking people living on the United States soil, learn English?" choice 1: Yes they should make an EFFORT (dang there's that key word, again) to learn English. etc...

Actually, no, there isn't. Said bill would acknowledge English as the national language, not official (Important difference there). It would direct federal offices to use English on all official documents, not forbid them from being published in another language or forbid the use of other languages in federal offices. And finally, that damn bill is an amendment attached, IIRC, to the immigration reform that the House GOP refuses to take up. There's no way in hell that the lame duck Congress will touch it with a ten foot poll before exiting stage right.

Thank you for the technical correction. That is correct in the Federal Level. Now I'm going to take it to the state level: 29 of the 50 states and also 1 US territory have in laws that declare English as the Official Language.

And I have a feeling Sen Reid, being against the original bill, may just kill it the second time around as majority leader.

Again, you take a black and white stance on language learning, what else am I supposed to take from such a stance?

Nope, I'd have to disagree with you once more. I am not taking it as a black and white stance. I'm simply using common sense approach that if you move to a nation, ANY NATION, you should simply have the decency to make an EFFORT (damn that word just keeps popping up, what the Hell) to learn the Primary language.

(Bold is not part of Nervun's quote but is my reply to each part of his quote)
I really don't understand why you obviously are ignoring the word "effort" by stating that I claim that all Spanish speakers don't know English. That is by far from my intentions and thoughts. Nowhere have I ever stated any bigoted, racist, or the likes in this topic. Do you not think that people should make an Effort to learn the primary language. Also, I don't understand where you are getting me ever to state that learning another language is an easy task. I never put a claim to that.

Yes I'm sticking to my guns on you choosing to misinterpret, misunderstanding of my intentions, and your choice in fighting me over what I didn't even state.

Well, I don't know, most foreigners living here do not speak spanish. Seems to be a heavy toll upon them, and not upon everyone else. I cannot see how someone wants to migrate to a country where you cannot speak to noone except your family, or why that disturbs or frustrate you so much.

Well, I don't know, most foreigners living here do not speak spanish. Seems to be a heavy toll upon them, and not upon everyone else. I cannot see how someone wants to migrate to a country where you cannot speak to noone except your family, or why that disturbs or frustrate you so much.

it frustrates me because it makes it harder for me to do my job, part of my job is to explain to people their tax situation and help them to plan for the future, it's not something that is easily done with a 6 year old as an intermediary, it frustrates me because it makes my daily life harder, when I can't get answers to questions that I need to know because someone doesn't speak English, it frustrates me because I have made an effort to learn Spanish to teach ESL for free to people, and yet they don't come to class and say to me "they cheated me on my mortgage because I can't speak English" and whine to me like that's my fault.

What does road safety issues have to with signs? For people to have a driving license they must be able to grasp basic english and understand signs. they only want to change the signs so people will know where they're going.

Are road signs not mostly symbols anyway?

it frustrates me because it makes it harder for me to do my job, part of my job is to explain to people their tax situation and help them to plan for the future, it's not something that is easily done with a 6 year old as an intermediary, it frustrates me because it makes my daily life harder, when I can't get answers to questions that I need to know because someone doesn't speak English, it frustrates me because I have made an effort to learn Spanish to teach ESL for free to people, and yet they don't come to class and say to me "they cheated me on my mortgage because I can't speak English" and whine to me like that's my fault.

ESL being?

Well, then your employer should take into account and either give you a bonus, or hire someone bilingual...

ESL being?
English as a second language


Well, then your employer should take into account and either give you a bonus, or hire someone bilingual...
I am my employer.

English as a second language

I don't know, well, here is called officially EFL, English as a Foreign Language, at least the embassy calls it that way.


I am my employer.

Then you should be aware of the exceptions in your line of work that could be a little more spiky than usual. In my line of work, I end giving a lot of classes of a lot of things for free to lots of people that should already know them, mainly spanish grammar, spelling and style, and I am talking about spanish native speaking people. It happens, I however advise you to improve your spanish to make your work easier.

I also have to "make" the reports for the CNN teams around here, for example, and to understand them when they don't speak spanish, even when they apply for being sent to Venezuela.

King Bodacious, what exactly do you mean by Primary language? The first European language spoken in what is now the USA, or do you mean the language spoken by the greatest number of people within the USA?

King Bodacious, what exactly do you mean by Primary language? The first European language spoken in what is now the USA, or do you mean the language spoken by the greatest number of people within the USA?

By Primary Language, I mean spoken by the vast majority in the USA.

I copied the following from wikipedia: here's the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_of_America#Language

In 2003, about 215 million, or 82%, of the population aged five years and older spoke only English at home.[76] Although not all Americans speak English, it is the most common language for daily interaction among both native and non-native speakers. Nowadays, more languages are being used in daily life for mainly Spanish speakers who cannot understand English.

For clarification:(The Facts) The United States of America at the Federal Level does NOT have an Official Language. However, at the state level, English is the Official Language of more than 50% of the States. Here is the list of states whose Official Language is English to include US Territories, also: (27 States and 1 US Territory)

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Carolina, North Dakota, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, the U.S. Virgin Islands, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia, and Wyoming

English namely the American English is the Primary Language spoken by the vast majority of the American People (According to the Census Bureau in 2003, English is spoken by 82% of the population at that time.)
Several states and territories are officially bi- or trilingual:

Several states and territories are officially bi- or trilingual:

Hawaii (Hawaiian English and Hawaiian)
Louisiana (English and French legally recognized, although there is no official language)
New Mexico (English and Spanish)
American Samoa (Samoan and English)
Guam (Chamorro and English)
Northern Mariana Islands (English, Chamorro, and Carolinian)
Puerto Rico (Spanish and English)

This poll is intended to suggest that the non-English population should make an EFFORT to learn the Primary Language. In NOWAY, should this OP suggest that "ALL Spanish speaking people in America are NOT trying to learn the English language." My OP, simply, is meant to suggest that ALL non-English speaking people make an EFFORT to learn the Primary Language. In NOWAY, is my Topic to be mistakenly identified to be bigoted, racist, selfish, ignorant, etc... and the likes. Maybe I should have reworded it more like the following: "Should ALL people living in ANY nation make an effort to learn the Primary and/or Official Language of that particular Nation? option 1: YES Option 2: NO Option 3: Other, please explain NOTE: My OP and all Replies after the OP should be assumed to mean the above mentioned Facts. I apologize to those who have misunderstood/misinterpreted or what ever else and to those who took this Topic as bigoted and Racist or as Black and White. In NOWAY was that my intentions.

(Poll coming soon)

Should the spanish speaking people and citizens of the United States learn or atleast show an effort of learning the English language?

Yes. But this applies to anyone moving to any country. How else can you fully appreciate the host culture.

English is America's Primary Language. The reason I'm having a poll is because this is the 2nd time in less than a weeks time I attempted to contact somebody regarding their membership with my company: wife of member answers phone, I ask for Mr. Whoever, wife answers, "No speak English" and hung up. This really aggravates the hell out of me. I feel that any foreigner that moves to America should have some sort of agreement that they will show an effort to learn the Primary Language.

Sorry no sympathy. I detest telesales/marketing.
Maybe it would be beneficial to be able to speak to your members in their own language?
If you don't want the hassle don't have them as members.

I'm getting pretty tired of businesses and others (including our Government) who continually caters to the non-English speaking citizens in America.

Does that no make sense. considering NAFTA and all. You'd think with the increasing trade from these spanish speaking nations it would benefit the USA. You think in mexico they'd do the same for english speaking people.

Why don't people moving to America want to learn the primary language. Some people are also talking about adding to our road signs to make them English and Spanish. Which brings another truth about this situation regarding safety issues on our roads and furthers my wanting of some sort of mandate and agreement that people will show some sort of effort to learn the English language. I'm not talking about it having to be fluent but atleast the basics.

Should not all signs in the US be in spanish, english and french? considering those are the 3 main languages of north america.

Yes. But this applies to anyone moving to any country. How else can you fully appreciate the host culture.

That is the main point of this poll and OP

Sorry no sympathy. I detest telesales/marketing.
Maybe it would be beneficial to be able to speak to your members in their own language?
If you don't want the hassle don't have them as members.

I don't need nor want your sympathy. I agree I, also, detest telesales/marketing. This Topic isn't supposed to be about my job which is far from telemarketing but in Fact is in the Marine Industry (boats, on the water issues, etc...) Maybe it would however I don't think Americans should be the ones to be mandated to change our way of life and Culture to appease to the FEW that refuse to learn the Primary Language.

Does that no make sense. considering NAFTA and all. You'd think with the increasing trade from these spanish speaking nations it would benefit the USA. You think in mexico they'd do the same for english speaking people.

Should not all signs in the US be in spanish, english and french? considering those are the 3 main languages of north america.

Why French? Most spoken Language in America is English, 2nd most is Spanish, 3rd most is Chinese, and 4th would then be French. Also, Fact: a lot of the states in SE USA do have road signes in both English and Spanish.
NOTE: Bold is my Response.

I don't know, well, here is called officially EFL, English as a Foreign Language, at least the embassy calls it that way.




Then you should be aware of the exceptions in your line of work that could be a little more spiky than usual. In my line of work, I end giving a lot of classes of a lot of things for free to lots of people that should already know them, mainly spanish grammar, spelling and style, and I am talking about spanish native speaking people. It happens, I however advise you to improve your spanish to make your work easier.

I also have to "make" the reports for the CNN teams around here, for example, and to understand them when they don't speak spanish, even when they apply for being sent to Venezuela.

Yes, but that's your job. My job is to help people with their financial planning, I can't do that if they can't speak English, I am not able to turn them down either because of professional groups that I am a member of.

Why French? Most spoken Language in America is English, 2nd most is Spanish, 3rd most is Chinese, and 4th would then be French. Also, Fact: a lot of the states in SE USA do have road signes in both English and Spanish.
Well, Cullons said North America, so I guess s/he was thinking about Quebec and all that. Although I think that even counting Quebec, Chinese is taking 3rd place or getting close.


NOTE: Bold is my Response.
I don't like, so I edited it out :P

Well, Cullons said North America, so I guess s/he was thinking about Quebec and all that. Although I think that even counting Quebec, Chinese is taking 3rd place or getting close.


I don't like, so I edited it out :P

I must have misread, yet another human error on my part. :D

That's cool. I only did to differinciate between their quote and my reply. :cool:

Well, Cullons said North America, so I guess s/he was thinking about Quebec and all that. Although I think that even counting Quebec, Chinese is taking 3rd place or getting close.


I don't like, so I edited it out :P

correct.

But i'm refering to local national languages, not immigrant languages. Even then, do all the second generation chinese people in north america speak the official national language of china or would the parents have to taught one of the myriad of other languages from there? (curious)

In the end its a numbers game. The USA has 400.000.000 spanish speaking people south of it.
about 43.000.000 or 14% (+/-) spanish speaking people living in the US out of a population of 300.000.000.

Unlike previous immigrant groups many of these have the ability to return home as its just across the border or a few hours away by plane/boat.

maybe the average person in the US might have to become bi-lingual.

In the end its a numbers game. The USA has 400.000.000 spanish speaking people south of it.
about 43.000.000 or 14% (+/-) spanish speaking people living in the US out of a population of 300.000.000.

Unlike previous immigrant groups many of these have the ability to return home as its just across the border or a few hours away by plane/boat.

maybe the average person in the US might have to become bi-lingual.

Yes you are right, its about noumbers. And so far most people in USA no matter what their descent speak english. You will see that black people don't demand swahili, germans don't go speaking german at you when they work in Burger King and polish don't wish you Dzien Dobry when you enter their shop. They speak english.
People need to understand eachother. English is most widespread language in the world and (no matter what your english teacher told you) its one of simplest to learn. (try learning french or chinese you'll see what I mean).
English is only my third language and I can't say it was hard to learn. Its EVERYWHERE even if you are NOT living in usa. movies are on it, series are on it, internet mostly uses it, and best books are first printed in english.
So yes, spanish speaking immigrants should learn english. When you immigrate to a country, you should atleast respect it THAT much.

I just read an interesting article in my national newspaper

An Asian reporter went to the 'whitest' area in Britain and tried to find out what it would be like to live as an ethnic minority there.

She found a few instances where ethnic minorities had been assaulted or abused. Of those people there seemed to be two groups. Those who spoke fluent english and blamed the assault on things such as drug use rather than race discrimination, and those who spoke broken english and thought they had been assaulted or abused because of their race.

"Before I had my shop it was owned by Pakistanis and they spoke broken English and had some trouble. When I took it over they warned me to be careful but I haven't had any problems. Forget all this teaching-Britishness crap. I say just teach them English. If you can speak the language, people see through the colour."

The article adds credence to the idea that a common language is central to peaceful integration of communities

http://www.guardian.co.uk/race/story/0,,1964986,00.html

In fact, as a corporatist, I am inclined to say that they should gtfo anyway, what with them takin' er jerbs

As a corporatist, I thought you would be overjoyed at having cheap labour that has no rights and benefits whatsoever and can be replaced without any fuss of employment laws.

Competition keeps the business world alive and mobile. The lazy and the demanding get killed.

¿Que?


:D

I don't see a problem. Language is a self-correcting issue. *nod*

For example last timeI was in malaysia I worked out that a sign I kep seeing meant "Warning/Danger" (can't remember the word now).

"Amaran/Bahaya" would probably be what you saw. I would imagine that it was linked to a pictogram of some sort. I cannot imagine a road sign that simply says "warning - danger" without some sort of added explanation. Perhaps landslides, or road work.