NationStates Jolt Archive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism

http://www.dpjs.co.uk/magic.html

These are two sites that swayed me to the teachings of LaVey.

I recommend you remain open minded and browse through them to expand your horizons.

This thread is so we can debate about this sort of satanism, and whether it deserves the bad press it gets, whether it makes any sense ect.

Satanism. Where would attention whores be without it?

What...I thought the real rebels converted to Islam nowadays...

Satanism. Where would attention whores be without it?

Quite.
But still i think the social ideals behind it are sound.

What...I thought the real rebels converted to Islam nowadays...

Ahhh.

The irony.

to be rebellious i shall convert to the most submissive religion on the planet.

Jesus loves you. You know that, right? :)

Jesus loves you. You know that, right? :)

You mean the peasant boy who fell in love with a whore?

I dont particularly care.

You mean the peasant boy who fell in love with a whore?

I dont particularly care.

Me neither. :D

Have any of you read the sites, or know prior to this about Satanism?

If not then your opinions are as much use as an American president, and almost certainly as stupid and prejudicial.

I dont particularly care.

And so you think we do? Go be a Satanist all you want. Tell us all about it. Go on.

I've read up on satanism, and I really don't like it...

And so you think we do? Go be a Satanist all you want. Tell us all about it. Go on.

Dear me.
Were all of your 7000 posts that bad? I feel sorry for the moderators.

If you follow the links i need not waste my time.

If you dont follow the links, continue to embaress yourself with the dogma fed into your brain by tv shows.

Make your choice.

I've read up on satanism, and I really don't like it...

At least you read up on it.

Therefore your a lot better than those who formed an opinion before doing so.
Have a cookie.

Have a cookie.
Watch out, Pyotr -- it could be a Satanic cookie! :eek:




:p

Watch out, Pyotr -- it could be a Satanic cookie! :eek:




:p

Your all showing reactions that are written down.
Your sheep.
Its quite enjoyable.
Let me toy with you.

Now comes an angry post, but now that ive said that it will be a nice one, but now that ive said that it will be a critical one, now ive said that a funny one, now ive said that only the most strong willed person will be able to make the next post at all.

And now ive said that the weakest will be eager to look strong.

Got it?

At least you read up on it.

Therefore your a lot better than those who formed an opinion before doing so.
Have a cookie.

Thanks, I like some parts of it, like the Nietzsche-inspired individualism you know, rise above the human herd and all that. I don't like the vengeance and indulgence stuff, and forgive me, but the rituals seem a wee bit ridiculous. I guess philosophically Satanism is alright.

I don't think Satanism deserves all the bad rep it gets, however it is not something I believe in. Certain points bother me a lot. For example:


Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

Then of course there are some that I agree with:

Do not harm little children.
Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

But no, I won't be converting anytime soon. I don't agree with vengeance and it seems too materialistic for me.

I toyed with Satanism, but LaVey's teachings in several instances are absurd. Try looking at the actual Satanism website and you will see various things that will show you thus. I do, however, find that ignorant people (the general public) and those who pander to the ignorant people and their prejudices (the media) have given Satanism an unfair image that is undeserved and primarily induced by the use of the word Satan.

You will find that most intelligent people are already very close to being Satanists of the Left Hand path without being aware, simply by being secular humanists with few morals and respecting the equally intelligent. Still, they are likely aware of what a Satanist is.

However, be aware that LaVey Satanism has its' extremist groups and further groups that are extremist and don't listen to LaVey.

At any rate, Satanism, while better than most religions (not that it's a religion, per se) is still pretty absurd in places. An example? Two of the five points, those being to create an artificial habitat for everyone and developing AI suitable to become human slaves.

So yeah, in summary, be careful about becoming a Satanist. At the same time, read about it and learn, then disregard the crap and be enlightened.

Have any of you read the sites, or know prior to this about Satanism?

If not then your opinions are as much use as an American president, and almost certainly as stupid and prejudicial.

My father was a Satanist. Ain't got nothing against you, though the golden rule is stupid. Do unto others as would be advantageous to you. would be better.

Your all showing reactions that are written down.
Your sheep.
Its quite enjoyable.
Let me toy with you.

Now comes an angry post, but now that ive said that it will be a nice one, but now that ive said that it will be a critical one, now ive said that a funny one, now ive said that only the most strong willed person will be able to make the next post at all.

And now ive said that the weakest will be eager to look strong.

Got it?

i don't think anyone really cares enough. why are you so keen for people to know you're a satanist and what it's about? i know that satanism isn't all sacrificing goats and hexing people or whatever you're afraid people think it is. but i really don't care. much like i don't care what christianity is about or islam or any of the other religions. it really looks like you are trying to bait christians and muslim reactionaries into making some rash comment so you can vent your spleen at them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism

http://www.dpjs.co.uk/magic.html

These are two sites that swayed me to the teachings of LaVey.

I recommend you remain open minded and browse through them to expand your horizons.

This thread is so we can debate about this sort of satanism, and whether it deserves the bad press it gets, whether it makes any sense ect.

I hope you have a lot of patience. Many people will ask many stupid questions and most likely you will end up having to repeat your answers again and again.

Good luck.

Here's another good site for info on Satanism and many other religions as well... http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanism.htm

Hail Satan!

~Satanic Reverend Medivh~

Ehhhh I have looked into it ... while some of the general philosophy can be based on sound advice in the end it seems as convoluted and silly as any religion I have ever heard of

I read it, and it just seems like Wiccan for men.

It's my third favorite religion, following agonsticism and atheism and directly preceding Buddhism and, well, pretty much everything else is fifth.
That said though, it's definitally better as a philosophy then as a religion.
In fact, every religion is better off as a philosophy, and the two best(from my point of view, of course) religions are exactly the same as their corresponding philosophies.

I read it, and it just seems like Wiccan for men.

Look! up in the sky! Is it a bird? Is it a plane? NO! Its Blanket Generalization man!

Satanism is just Neitzsche for the Hot Topic crowd.

Have any of you read the sites, or know prior to this about Satanism?

If not then your opinions are as much use as an American president, and almost certainly as stupid and prejudicial.

Hell I was going to read the sites despite your alleged finding faith and religion via the intarweb. but now I know that I neednt bother. Have a nice trollsturbation.

there seems to be alot of intelligent and informed people here... which is nice.

i, too, have read up on satanism. and like others, i really felt a connection and understanding of some of its teachings. however, some i did not. but i've found the same when exploring other religions and organisations.

i'm somewhat glad you made this post, it might force people to become more informed on satanism. it's generally misconcieved. but at the same time... i sort of think... who cares?

...

Hey, do Satanists use "God made me do it!" as an excuse?

[Waits to be sigged by a few billion forumites...]

*puts up a don't feed the troll sign*

don't feed it plz

Look! up in the sky! Is it a bird? Is it a plane? NO! Its Blanket Generalization man!

Able to describe all tall buildings as "10 storeys high" in a single bound...

Your all showing reactions that are written down.
Your sheep.
Its quite enjoyable.
Let me toy with you.

Now comes an angry post, but now that ive said that it will be a nice one, but now that ive said that it will be a critical one, now ive said that a funny one, now ive said that only the most strong willed person will be able to make the next post at all.

And now ive said that the weakest will be eager to look strong.

Got it?
your =/= you're

I'd sell my soul to rid this forum of trolls.

:D

Hey, do Satanists use "God made me do it!" as an excuse?

Pinning your excuses on an entity that may or may not exist is a bad legal move no matter what entity that may be.

But, hey, religious equality, man. The Satanist got to show his prick to everyone in General, much like the athiests and Christians have done already, and now he's fled before the storms of "rational arguments" can rain.

Sigh.

Sometimes I worry about this forum.

Somebody had a quote in their sig that I loved:

"Satanism is like making a website about how much you hate websites".

:D

Satanism, like other mysticisms, really doesn't cut it for me.

Satanism seems no more or less silly than any other religion. In my experience, Satanists convert for the shock value.
My cousin is a practicing Satanist. He was originally atheist, but that didn't shock people enough. The he went Wiccan. No big deal. Now he's a Satanist. Go figure.

Part of the reason as to why Satanism appeals to many is because of the fact that many of its beliefs and teachings relate very well to our world today. Gone are the days of Turning the Other Cheek and the like, because such submissive behaviour is viewed upon as a weakness.

Satanism however, provides something that we have all wanted to hear: An excuse. An excuse to seek vengance, an excuse to hurt others if they deserve it, rather than letting it pass you by.

So in essence, Satanism is becoming more popular because all the current religions are based upon outdated principles and concepts, principles that people often scoff at. Satanism on the other hand is something that taps into our most innate desire, the desire for self-fulfilment, not to mention self-worth and respect from others.

Anyway, that's my 0.02c.

Satanism, hey?

Well, whatever floats your boat, I guess. Though I don't know why a satanist would need the sort of reinforcement he or she can apparently only get by posting a thread about their new trendy idea.

Your all showing reactions that are written down.
Your sheep.
Its quite enjoyable.
Let me toy with you.

Now comes an angry post, but now that ive said that it will be a nice one, but now that ive said that it will be a critical one, now ive said that a funny one, now ive said that only the most strong willed person will be able to make the next post at all.

And now ive said that the weakest will be eager to look strong.

Got it?

You are showing a reaction that has been written down countless times.
You are a sheep.
It is amusing to a degree, but also moderatly depressing.
Let me explain.

I have several conflicting forums going through my head at this point, so I feel I should get all my reactions down:

My 4chan self wishes to say:
"Raptor Jesus saves, beware Candlejack OH SHI-!"
Which slots nicely into your definition of a sheep, but frankly doesnt matter. 4chan is a muddled mess of idiots acting like idiots and smart people acting like total idiots, for the former it is merely another internet playground, for the latter its a place where they can, metaphorically, run naked in the rain.

My Generalite self wishes to say:
I would love to engage in a long winded and totaly pointless debate with you, but alas, I am already engaged in 200 other threads debating points which are far more significant than your pathetic need for attention.

Myself, past the others and into the range of what you might want to call honesty, wishes to say:
By making this post you have demonstrated an obvious desire to engage somebody in a heated contest, banking on the theory that silly reverse psychology will help you win the day. Provided this works out, you can easily dismiss anybody who breaks your worldview of 'unenlightened' with a simple 'Hah! But of course a sheep would say that, you're just a slave to the establishment blah blah blah...'
The thing is, %90 of the people who claim not to be sheep are merely a different species of sheep, a minor subset doomed to exctinction in a decade or so. The real rebels you either hear about once, or never hear about at all. Osama Bin Laden isnt a sheep, Ill give him that, a man with a combination of a vision and the charisma and resources to back it up. Most of the true 'non-sheep' have no need to express themselves in terms of clothing (purchased from Hot Topic or some similar store, as seems to generally be the case).
Of course, it seems likely by your arguement that you will say, "But I dont shop at Hot Topic.", and now that Ive said that, you will say, "Your mooting your own point IWINGTFO!", etc. etc. etc.
The thing is, all those people you so quickly dismissed as sheep are just as random and fluctuating and unpredictable as you. Call it fate, luck, predestination, solar wind, alien mind control or the random forces of a strange and unpredictable universe that makes absolutly no sense.
People only seem like sheep because you want them to. Many people have a desire to be different, to stand out, to rise above or sink below.
If you wish to compare a person to an animal, goats would be far better. They move in a herd, oftentimes, but sometimes go out on their own. Im sure your dying for an essay on the social dynamics of goats, but I dont feel like typing one, so I wont.
Sheeple are an invention of those who desire to think that they are somehow above the rest of humanity because they have the courage to band together with others and wear something which is just as corporatized as the average Joes button-up shirt and tie, but happens to be in black and red with studs on.
Of course, this has been going on forever. Im sure that back in the good ol' days of 120 BC Roman youth would occasionally don furs and head over to the local amphitheatre to listen to an intoxicated Gaul scream incoherently to a near-random beat, perhaps stolen from a popular song of last year and modified slightly to avoid those nasty Roman courts.

But, the key turning point now, the division in the trousers of time as Terry Pratchett would say, is whether you choose to accept this arguemnt or dismiss me as a sheep. Or, the third choice, to do something totaly other. Accept half and disregard the rest, edit it, be amazed at my enlightened attitude and start a religion centered around me.

EDIT:
And by the way, in making this post, arent you breaking one of the rules of Satanism? Something about not antagonizing people?

You are showing a reaction that has been written down countless times.
You are a sheep.
It is amusing to a degree, but also moderatly depressing.
Let me explain.

I have several conflicting forums going through my head at this point, so I feel I should get all my reactions down:

My 4chan self wishes to say:
"Raptor Jesus saves, beware Candlejack OH SHI-!"
Which slots nicely into your definition of a sheep, but frankly doesnt matter. 4chan is a muddled mess of idiots acting like idiots and smart people acting like total idiots, for the former it is merely another internet playground, for the latter its a place where they can, metaphorically, run naked in the rain.

My Generalite self wishes to say:
I would love to engage in a long winded and totaly pointless debate with you, but alas, I am already engaged in 200 other threads debating points which are far more significant than your pathetic need for attention.

Myself, past the others and into the range of what you might want to call honesty, wishes to say:
By making this post you have demonstrated an obvious desire to engage somebody in a heated contest, banking on the theory that silly reverse psychology will help you win the day. Provided this works out, you can easily dismiss anybody who breaks your worldview of 'unenlightened' with a simple 'Hah! But of course a sheep would say that, you're just a slave to the establishment blah blah blah...'
The thing is, %90 of the people who claim not to be sheep are merely a different species of sheep, a minor subset doomed to exctinction in a decade or so. The real rebels you either hear about once, or never hear about at all. Osama Bin Laden isnt a sheep, Ill give him that, a man with a combination of a vision and the charisma and resources to back it up. Most of the true 'non-sheep' have no need to express themselves in terms of clothing (purchased from Hot Topic or some similar store, as seems to generally be the case).
Of course, it seems likely by your arguement that you will say, "But I dont shop at Hot Topic.", and now that Ive said that, you will say, "Your mooting your own point IWINGTFO!", etc. etc. etc.
The thing is, all those people you so quickly dismissed as sheep are just as random and fluctuating and unpredictable as you. Call it fate, luck, predestination, solar wind, alien mind control or the random forces of a strange and unpredictable universe that makes absolutly no sense.
People only seem like sheep because you want them to. Many people have a desire to be different, to stand out, to rise above or sink below.
If you wish to compare a person to an animal, goats would be far better. They move in a herd, oftentimes, but sometimes go out on their own. Im sure your dying for an essay on the social dynamics of goats, but I dont feel like typing one, so I wont.
Sheeple are an invention of those who desire to think that they are somehow above the rest of humanity because they have the courage to band together with others and wear something which is just as corporatized as the average Joes button-up shirt and tie, but happens to be in black and red with studs on.
Of course, this has been going on forever. Im sure that back in the good ol' days of 120 BC Roman youth would occasionally don furs and head over to the local amphitheatre to listen to an intoxicated Gaul scream incoherently to a near-random beat, perhaps stolen from a popular song of last year and modified slightly to avoid those nasty Roman courts.

But, the key turning point now, the division in the trousers of time as Terry Pratchett would say, is whether you choose to accept this arguemnt or dismiss me as a sheep. Or, the third choice, to do something totaly other. Accept half and disregard the rest, edit it, be amazed at my enlightened attitude and start a religion centered around me.

EDIT:
And by the way, in making this post, arent you breaking one of the rules of Satanism? Something about not antagonizing people?

Very very well said ... I was in the process of a simmilar post myself but seeing this I think I will save my self the effort

I hope to see more of you around this forum

Look! up in the sky! Is it a bird? Is it a plane? NO! Its Blanket Generalization man!

Hey, he asked me what I thought of Satanism, and I told him. It just seems like Wicca, but more beefed up.

You are showing a reaction that has been written down countless times.
You are a sheep.
It is amusing to a degree, but also moderatly depressing.
Let me explain.

I have several conflicting forums going through my head at this point, so I feel I should get all my reactions down:

My 4chan self wishes to say:
"Raptor Jesus saves, beware Candlejack OH SHI-!"
Which slots nicely into your definition of a sheep, but frankly doesnt matter. 4chan is a muddled mess of idiots acting like idiots and smart people acting like total idiots, for the former it is merely another internet playground, for the latter its a place where they can, metaphorically, run naked in the rain.

My Generalite self wishes to say:
I would love to engage in a long winded and totaly pointless debate with you, but alas, I am already engaged in 200 other threads debating points which are far more significant than your pathetic need for attention.

Myself, past the others and into the range of what you might want to call honesty, wishes to say:
By making this post you have demonstrated an obvious desire to engage somebody in a heated contest, banking on the theory that silly reverse psychology will help you win the day. Provided this works out, you can easily dismiss anybody who breaks your worldview of 'unenlightened' with a simple 'Hah! But of course a sheep would say that, you're just a slave to the establishment blah blah blah...'
The thing is, %90 of the people who claim not to be sheep are merely a different species of sheep, a minor subset doomed to exctinction in a decade or so. The real rebels you either hear about once, or never hear about at all. Osama Bin Laden isnt a sheep, Ill give him that, a man with a combination of a vision and the charisma and resources to back it up. Most of the true 'non-sheep' have no need to express themselves in terms of clothing (purchased from Hot Topic or some similar store, as seems to generally be the case).
Of course, it seems likely by your arguement that you will say, "But I dont shop at Hot Topic.", and now that Ive said that, you will say, "Your mooting your own point IWINGTFO!", etc. etc. etc.
The thing is, all those people you so quickly dismissed as sheep are just as random and fluctuating and unpredictable as you. Call it fate, luck, predestination, solar wind, alien mind control or the random forces of a strange and unpredictable universe that makes absolutly no sense.
People only seem like sheep because you want them to. Many people have a desire to be different, to stand out, to rise above or sink below.
If you wish to compare a person to an animal, goats would be far better. They move in a herd, oftentimes, but sometimes go out on their own. Im sure your dying for an essay on the social dynamics of goats, but I dont feel like typing one, so I wont.
Sheeple are an invention of those who desire to think that they are somehow above the rest of humanity because they have the courage to band together with others and wear something which is just as corporatized as the average Joes button-up shirt and tie, but happens to be in black and red with studs on.
Of course, this has been going on forever. Im sure that back in the good ol' days of 120 BC Roman youth would occasionally don furs and head over to the local amphitheatre to listen to an intoxicated Gaul scream incoherently to a near-random beat, perhaps stolen from a popular song of last year and modified slightly to avoid those nasty Roman courts.

But, the key turning point now, the division in the trousers of time as Terry Pratchett would say, is whether you choose to accept this arguemnt or dismiss me as a sheep. Or, the third choice, to do something totaly other. Accept half and disregard the rest, edit it, be amazed at my enlightened attitude and start a religion centered around me.

EDIT:
And by the way, in making this post, arent you breaking one of the rules of Satanism? Something about not antagonizing people?

:cool: I like this post.

Hey, he asked me what I thought of Satanism, and I told him. It just seems like Wicca, but more beefed up.

you mustn't know much about wicca then.

I like the self serving streaks that run through satanism though the religious dogma bullshit throws me off.

Yawn, Satanism. A bit boring if you ask me.

I prefer Discordianism myself. Far more interesting and hilarious.

Yawn, Satanism. A bit boring if you ask me.

I prefer Discordianism myself. Far more interesting and hilarious.

fap fap fap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism

http://www.dpjs.co.uk/magic.html

These are two sites that swayed me to the teachings of LaVey.

I recommend you remain open minded and browse through them to expand your horizons.

This thread is so we can debate about this sort of satanism, and whether it deserves the bad press it gets, whether it makes any sense ect.

WOW! this just shows me how desperate some people are for attention, I mean the world must be so....unfair and cruel and poor little you has to make everybody knwo your here. So you adopt some religion you know bugger all about, Only reason you did it to get attention.

Look up the rituals of real 'satanist' mate, then you wont be so pleased to call yourself one. I had a brother who was a 'real satanist' dont think i dont know either.

I AM A CHRISTIAN!!! LOOK AT ME!!!

Yep I can be an attention whore too :)

The Left-Hand-Path really doesn’t do it for me. In fact I find it depressing and more than a little Neil Young weird (as opposed to Bob Dylan weird.)
But whatever makes you happy. :)

You're a Satanist, that's great, good for you, but that doesn't instantly give you the right to be an asshole to people. If you don't want to look like you've just converted to the religion so you can rant on about how everyone misunderstands your religion, then you should probably wipe the elitist sneer of your face and wait until someone has actually attacked you over your religion.

You're a Satanist, that's great, good for you, but that doesn't instantly give you the right to be an asshole to people. If you don't want to look like you've just converted to the religion so you can rant on about how everyone misunderstands your religion, then you should probably wipe the elitist sneer of your face and wait until someone has actually attacked you over your religion.

Well, you're certainly defensive.
Have a :)

What...I thought the real rebels converted to Islam nowadays...


lol...you just made me spit beer on my keyboard...thanks..

From what the links he provided seem to show, Satanism is just an over-glorification of hedonism, hubris, egotism, egocentricity, and an utter lack of self-control. Most 5 year olds have no trouble believing that they are god and the universe should live to serve them, but no one likes them. And yeah if you want to go that route, yeah, we're all born satanists with no self-control, we shit ourselves among other things and we're totally reliant on others to let us live. But we grow up, we become independent, because Satanism doesn't mesh with Satanism. If the golden rule is reactionary, and everyone is a Satanist, then everyone would ignore everyone else, and so congratulations, you're the parachute tied to the back of the car called progress.

it's incredibly sad how someones morals and life path can be changed by two blocks of text on an internet website.

... I had a brother who was a 'real satanist' dont think i dont know either.

Had???

This all reminds me of that quote from Elf Only inn. A poster wonders why so many chat users have names to do with Satanism and the devil and comes to the conclusion that everyone wants to be the devil. The moderator responds the REAL reason:

"Any moron with a keyboard can be the devil in a chatroom. But it takes a sysop to play God"

I'm a hardcore Computerologist and don't understand the Satan nonsense.

I think this so called "satanism" is just a lousy excuse for emo-kids to treat others wrong and show off all kinds of bad manners. Spoiled brats who can't be bothered to behave like decent folks! Grow up, grow a beard and get a damn job. I have a friend who once talked about LaVey and had me read his silly paperback. It was amusing but come on, it's fucking immature and downright embarrasing to subscribe to those beliefs... I told her and yay, she converted to the greatness of atheism instead of neo-egoistic bullshit.

Have a nice day :)

I'm a hardcore Computerologist and don't understand the Satan nonsense.

:eek:

Enlighten me, oh electronic one.

I AM A CHRISTIAN!!! LOOK AT ME!!!

Yep I can be an attention whore too :)
*Looks*

:eek:

Well, how you doin'? ;)

:p
Yawn, Satanism. A bit boring if you ask me.

I prefer Discordianism myself. Far more interesting and hilarious.

Fnord :eek:

I accept that Satan is a symbol, but it's a stupid symbol. Although it fits the philosophy, it seems more like something used just to piss off the Christians and promote a negative view of the ideology. It's like using Osama bin Laden as the symbol of an anti-American protest group, since he could be said to be the ultimate in hate against America.

ive read some "Attention seeker" posts up there.
most amusing.

If i was attention seeking i wouldnt do it on a forum would i? id do it in public.

If you read the original post... which is unlikely.
Then youd see i had this thread so you could debate about satanism, not troll and call me an attention seeker.



As for the troll threads, i dont see any connection between my posts and that.
All ive done is state fact.

the american president thing was just a laugh.

Internet satanists are usually just claiming the title for the attention, without actually bothering to look at the philosophy. At least the OP did some research. Most don't.

LG; I like that sig you mentioned as well.:D

P.S. I was going to leave off my sig in light of the various attention whore comments posted, but decided, to hell with that. I am an attention whore, just like everyone else here. If we weren't we wouldn't have such huge post counts :p

Somebody had a quote in their sig that I loved:

"Satanism is like making a website about how much you hate websites".

:D

Thats my sig!! :D

You believers of any sort are sooo annoying. :p

I'd sell my soul to rid this forum of trolls.
I think you'll find that the forum alreadys owns your soul.
Yawn, Satanism. A bit boring if you ask me.

I prefer Discordianism myself. Far more interesting and hilarious.

Hail Eris!

I think you'll find that the forum alreadys owns your soul.


Hail Eris!

May the Goddess ride w/ you. Just not in the same car.

I read Lavey's work when I was in HS. The first part was some interesting points (individualism, etc.) Then it got into the nonsense revenge magic.

The more I see about the online world, the more I feel disgusted at the direction the world is going. The greatness of Christianity and the other main ones is partly in that they show people how to be more compatible to society by being less self-serving. Everyone here should be aware that being egotistical will bring nothing but hate upon yourself. Add veangeful on top of breeding hate toward yourself and you're just asking for a world of trouble. Its ideaologies like this that show how ridiculously immature and misguided so many people have become nowadays, and surely these things can be nothing but detrimental to society and therefore everyone. I say this because society is based on social contract, which requires trust in others to function. If we are each out on this egocentric crusade, then it can do nothing but degrade society. Maybe if you're religion didn't sound so much like a fifth grade rebels attempts to get someone to change his diaper I might be less negative, but I see no good in promoting this behavior. I have said my negative things about your religion, but I now feel guilty for giving you the attention that will no doubtly feed your desires.

Ahh yes, Satanism, I remember it well. Back in college I was even foolish enough to send in a $100 membership fee to get my card and everything, subscribed to The Black Flame, scared my grandparents, the whole nine yards. The problem is that Satanism is a scam. LaVey's great idea wasn't a religion, but a way of packaging teenage rebellion so that the dregs of the occult community would waste their money on him. He dressed up secular humanism, Machiavelli, and Neitzsche with a little bit of glit he stole from Crowley and managed to publish a book that ensured he'd never have to work a day in his life. You gotta respect a man who can sell memberships to an individualist club.

Seriously though, as a faith or philosophy it comes up lacking. The actual cosmology and theology that LaVey put forth wasn't anything new, just Thelema repackaged for mass consumption. The Satanic Bible itself is organized and written like LaVey was using Crowley's Book 4 as a template. The writing is a rambling series of one-liners that seem squarely aimed at the rebelious youth demographic. Satanism's philosophy, like it's theology, consists of ideas cribbed from somewhere else and stripped of difficult portions or concepts: there is no deeper meaning, no need to reflect on the meaning or implications of the text.

LaVey, being a secondary source, isn't a good place to get information. Figure out what it is about Stanism thats attractive to you. If you're interested in western occultism you should go read Crowley, Levi, Gardner, Carroll, Mathers, DuQuette, Fortune, or any of the literally dozens of others who had a better understanding of the concept than LaVey. If you're interested in the philosophy you should go read Nietzsche, Sun Tzu, Machiavelli, John Stuart Mill, Edward Wilson, etc. If, after all that, you still like the idea of Satanism, then go with it, but don't just stand there and expect a cookie because you managed to find something that anyone with $5.99 can get in any major bookstore in the country.

The more I see about the online world, the more I feel disgusted at the direction the world is going. The greatness of Christianity and the other main ones is partly in that they show people how to be more compatible to society by being less self-serving. Everyone here should be aware that being egotistical will bring nothing but hate upon yourself. Add veangeful on top of breeding hate toward yourself and you're just asking for a world of trouble. Its ideaologies like this that show how ridiculously immature and misguided so many people have become nowadays, and surely these things can be nothing but detrimental to society and therefore everyone. I say this because society is based on social contract, which requires trust in others to function. If we are each out on this egocentric crusade, then it can do nothing but degrade society. Maybe if you're religion didn't sound so much like a fifth grade rebels attempts to get someone to change his diaper I might be less negative, but I see no good in promoting this behavior. I have said my negative things about your religion, but I now feel guilty for giving you the attention that will no doubtly feed your desires.

Ego centrism, negativism, and revenge are bad. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll talk up how great my way of doing things is while making cracks about what you believe. I mean, you've offended me and so I must hurt you, even if I know it will lead to bad things.

But its ok. Because I'm different.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.


woot vader line.



Ok, im gonna show you a mirror here, Theeere we go "I'll talk up how great my way of doing things is while making cracks about what you believe. "
"Ego centrism, negativism, and revenge are bad."
Awwww. :) its cute even though it violates the greatest rule of satanism, which i wont say

Interesting, you reply negatively to a post defending you and ignore a post that tried to engage you in your stated intention for this thread: a debate about Satanism.


Its starting to look more and more like you're looking for abuse rather than argument.

Thats my sig!! :D

YAY! :D

I dont know but you sound like a brainwashed bafoon to me. Especially with what your beliefs are about other religions being false. Though your religion teaches lies to keep you bound to it. It makes more sense when you believe it. Especially blindly by falsified information.

Interesting, you reply negatively to a post defending you and ignore a post that tried to engage you in your stated intention for this thread: a debate about Satanism.


Its starting to look more and more like you're looking for abuse rather than argument.

Ugh... ive got a headache.
i think i mistead it :(
i thought he was going on about satanism apologies to him and everyone, statement withdrawn

I find your lack of faith disturbing.


woot vader line.



Ok, im gonna show you a mirror here, Theeere we go "I'll talk up how great my way of doing things is while making cracks about what you believe. "
"Ego centrism, negativism, and revenge are bad."
Awwww. :) its cute even though it violates the greatest rule of satanism, which i wont say

Well, by making this thread, I'm pretty sure you broke a rule too.

"Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked."

Interesting, you reply negatively to a post defending you and ignore a post that tried to engage you in your stated intention for this thread: a debate about Satanism.


Its starting to look more and more like you're looking for abuse rather than argument.

Its more like he doesnt make a real arguement. Its just a silly attempt to defend himself in a fallacious manner.

Well, by making this thread, I'm pretty sure you broke a rule too.

"Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked."

They are guidelines rather than rules ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism

http://www.dpjs.co.uk/magic.html

These are two sites that swayed me to the teachings of LaVey.

I recommend you remain open minded and browse through them to expand your horizons.

This thread is so we can debate about this sort of satanism, and whether it deserves the bad press it gets, whether it makes any sense ect.
I am ...a Christian Satanist more or less (although my increasing agnosticism is leading me to shake off the former). Don't ask. It complies with my primary beliefs of market anarchism and anarcho-nihilism. Satanism therefore lends itself naturally to me. I am sick of groups and their attendant mentalities -- if this makes me a sociopath, I'm glad to bear the label.

Pfft Satanism, how 1950's

Its more like he doesnt make a real arguement. Its just a silly attempt to defend himself in a fallacious manner.

Im not argueing?
:S

I follow the teachings of Levay, i aksed you all what your interpretations were and to debate them.
So far ive had people just say "Oh hes so childish" and troll at me.
Which is kinda neat.

I am ...a Christian Satanist more or less (although my increasing agnosticism is leading me to shake off the former). Don't ask. It complies with my primary beliefs of market anarchism and anarcho-nihilism. Satanism therefore lends itself naturally to me. I am sick of groups and their attendant mentalities -- if this makes me a sociopath, I'm glad to bear the label.

Lets lovebomb :p
:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

I have a combination religion. I take a little bit of the Church of Self-Righteousness (As in, 'I have my own beliefs and don't care about yours) and Discordianism. I don't care that discordianism isn't exactly the most serious religion, it fits me.

Plus, when I want to mess with people, I'm a flying spaghetti monsterite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism

http://www.dpjs.co.uk/magic.html

These are two sites that swayed me to the teachings of LaVey.

I recommend you remain open minded and browse through them to expand your horizons.

This thread is so we can debate about this sort of satanism, and whether it deserves the bad press it gets, whether it makes any sense ect.

Satanism or Luciferianism?

One is an odd form of Atheism, the other....is just odd. Like worshipping the Warhammer God Khorne.....

My interpretation goes like this

L Ron Hubbard is to Scientology as Lavey is to Satanism
also further going into this.... lavey is pretty much l ron hubbard but in a more defiant manner so to speak.

Also Europa Maxima made a funny oxymoron.

I have a combination religion. I take a little bit of the Church of Self-Righteousness (As in, 'I have my own beliefs and don't care about yours) and Discordianism. I don't care that discordianism isn't exactly the most serious religion, it fits me.

Plus, when I want to mess with people, I'm a flying spaghetti monsterite.

You mean a Pastafarian?

Also Europa Maxima made a funny oxymoron.
Do specify.

if this makes me a sociopath, I'm glad to bear the label.

GAR! I know this is neither the time nor the place but....

A major pet peeve of mine is the incorrect use of medical diagnoses in common language.

A sociopath is someone with Antisocial Personality Disorder which is defined as:

Diagnostic criteria for 301.7 Antisocial Personality Disorder

A. There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:
(1) failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest
(2) deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, r conning others for personal profit or pleasure
(3) impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
(4) irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults
(5) reckless disregard for the safety of self or others
(6) consistant irresponsibility as indicated hy failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations
(7) lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another

B. The Individual is at least 18 years of age

C. There is evidence of a Conduct Disorder with onset before age 15 years

D. The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of Schizophrenia or a Manic Episode

Im not argueing?
:S

I follow the teachings of Levay, i aksed you all what your interpretations were and to debate them.
So far ive had people just say "Oh hes so childish" and troll at me.
Which is kinda neat.

Not quite:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11877047&postcount=69

A sociopath is someone with Antisocial Personality Disorder which is defined as:
Tell that to the people who use the label on me. ;)

Tell that to the people who use the label on me. ;)

I'd say you should just stab them for it, but that'd move you one step closer:)

Tell that to the people who use the label on me. ;)

You can stab them while screaming allah akbar. Then I think everyone else around you will get a click in their brains and stop messing with you.

You can stab them while screaming allah akbar. Then I think everyone else around you will get a click in their brains and stop messing with you.
Please, I can achieve that by just staring at people. Why expend energy needlessly? :)

They are guidelines rather than rules ;)

yay a pirates of the caribbean line

sounds like a solid way to live your life to me mate, although you really dont need me to tell ya this, but go on livin like you do those who dont like it, dont have to do it

Hail Eris!

Hail! Hail! Hail! Hail! Hail!

Eris! Eris! Eris! Eris! Eris!

All Hail Discordia!

Why is it when you repeatedly write or read a word it stops making sense?

Lets lovebomb :p
:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:
Just make sure not to drool on my overpriced shirt...

I think this is the second time I've read stuff of yours that I agree with... :)

I know a Satanist, she told me it was basically Catholocism turned upside down. IE, they parody things in the Catholic service but do them backwards/opposite. Sounds like an "I want to rebel against my parents/sunday school" type of religion which people join for emotional and not rational reasons.

i would read about it but i'm afraid i would like it.

Er...

I don't quite see the point in Satanism.

"Woohoo, I am indivisual! I'm a real trend setter! Yeah!"

No. It's not quite that easy, my friend. True wisdom is not just rebelling at the established all the time.

And if you are the stereotypical satanist, why? to rebel against god? You spend an eternity in hell anyways.

Very very well said ... I was in the process of a simmilar post myself but seeing this I think I will save my self the effort

I hope to see more of you around this forum

Oh yes. I think NSG would become much more interesting if the more intellectual 4channers were to migrate here every now and then.

Er...

I don't quite see the point in Satanism.

"Woohoo, I am indivisual! I'm a real trend setter! Yeah!"

No. It's not quite that easy, my friend. True wisdom is not just rebelling at the established all the time.

And if you are the stereotypical satanist, why? to rebel against god? You spend an eternity in hell anyways.

read the site, or the book and then come back and apologise.

read the site, or the book and then come back and apologise.

I already have read a fair bit on satanism, thank you very much.

I'm Buddhist anyways, so I don't beleive in God and hell either.

Apologise? A bit defensive and self righteous, I presume. I'd rather not speak to such an indivisual who acts in such a way.

read the site, or the book and then come back and apologise.

Oh, get down off your pale high horse. Its starting to get painfully obvious that you don't want a debate, you want to chum the waters for people you can kick over to shore up your conversion. Its pathetic.

...such an indivisual... I like your lisp.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism

http://www.dpjs.co.uk/magic.html

These are two sites that swayed me to the teachings of LaVey.

I recommend you remain open minded and browse through them to expand your horizons.

This thread is so we can debate about this sort of satanism, and whether it deserves the bad press it gets, whether it makes any sense ect. Thanks for the links, although the second one will no doubt be the more interesting of the two.

Oh, get down off your pale high horse. Its starting to get painfully obvious that you don't want a debate, you want to chum the waters for people you can kick over to shore up your conversion. Its pathetic.

I would debate if people would actually say something of value and not just say im an attention seeking trend setter.
...
which i am. but im not trying to be. :D

Anywho, i havnt seen one post saying "I think levay was trying to say X" or "Why do satanists take X literally"

All ive seen is people saying either good for you, your going to hell, why do you hate jesus and shit.

I already have read a fair bit on satanism, thank you very much.

I'm Buddhist anyways, so I don't beleive in God and hell either.

Apologise? A bit defensive and self righteous, I presume. I'd rather not speak to such an indivisual who acts in such a way.

Ok then, if you do know a lot then why were you pretending you didnt, and claiming what you claimed up there.
If it was sarcasm i apologise

I like your lisp.

Now, now, remember the golden rule... Treat others as they treat you. Isn't that right, Mr./Ms./Mrs. Satanist?

I'm not taking pot shots at you or anyone else on this thread.

Ever think that perhaps I do actually have a typing lisp? You insensitive bastard!:D

I would debate if people would actually say something of value and not just say im an attention seeking trend setter.
...
which i am. but im not trying to be. :D


not trying to take a bash at you.
anyone who talks is an attention seeker.

Ok then, if you do know a lot then why were you pretending you didnt, and claiming what you claimed up there.
If it was sarcasm i apologise

It was partly sarcasm. Sorry if I sounded a bit blunt back there... Thanks for the apology.

I'd wager that I am more hated, loathed, misunderstood, and despised than any mere satanist around these parts.

I'm a Calvinist.

I'm a deacon and a Sunday school teacher.

And I'm an American. :eek:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! Everybody Run!!! Oh, the Horror!

;)


Have a Happy Reformation Day!

Now, now, remember the golden rule... Treat others as they treat you. Isn't that right, Mr./Ms./Mrs. Satanist?

I'm not taking pot shots at you or anyone else on this thread.

Ever think that perhaps I do actually have a typing lisp? You insensitive bastard!:D I wasn't taking a pot shot. :) I genuinely thought it was cute.

I wasn't taking a pot shot. :) I genuinely thought it was cute.

i have a problem saying certain words.
they cause me to go up in flames.
i wont say which ones, im wearing a new top.

I would debate if people would actually say something of value and not just say im an attention seeking trend setter.
...
which i am. but im not trying to be. :D

Anywho, i havnt seen one post saying "I think levay was trying to say X" or "Why do satanists take X literally"

All ive seen is people saying either good for you, your going to hell, why do you hate jesus and shit.

I dunno, I made several points, then linked back to that post, and you keep saying no one has tried to engage you in a discussion. Still, maybe you need a slightly more concrete question.

1) What exactly is it that attracts you to Satanism as opposed to the older systems of philosophy, religion, and magic that LaVey plagiarized?

2) Why use the symbol of Satan? The entire construction of Satan as a symbol seems to be an attempt to define onself in the context of a social and religious movement from which you claim to be trying distance yourself?

I dunno, I made several points, then linked back to that post, and you keep saying no one has tried to engage you in a discussion. Still, maybe you need a slightly more concrete question.

1) What exactly is it that attracts you to Satanism as opposed to the older systems of philosophy, religion, and magic that LaVey plagiarized?

2) Why use the symbol of Satan? The entire construction of Satan as a symbol seems to be an attempt to define onself in the context of a social and religious movement from which you claim to be trying distance yourself?

There we are. sorry if i didnt read your other stuff.


Hmm.
1. Satanism attracts me to it, because it is plagiarized, yes but it is a complete stack of the philosophies, i believe in all of them and instead of saying im a Humanist-Atheist ectectectectect i shorten it.


2. The symbol of satan is used because it embodies the entire philosophy of the religion, if there was a non-religious symbol that came as close id probobly use that

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism

http://www.dpjs.co.uk/magic.html

These are two sites that swayed me to the teachings of LaVey.

I recommend you remain open minded and browse through them to expand your horizons.

This thread is so we can debate about this sort of satanism, and whether it deserves the bad press it gets, whether it makes any sense ect.Satanism claims that Christ is ineffectual and insubstantial, but let me tell you that in this case Satanism is insubstantial no less since it entirely dwells on Christianity. And since Christianity is only the offshoot of an entirely flawed and fabricated ideology - Judaism, in which Satan has a completely different role - naturally Satanism does not make any sense at all.
Within this it does not matter that LaVey does not see Satan as a personified evil but as a symbolic summary of human failure and egocentrism.
.

I wasn't taking a pot shot. :) I genuinely thought it was cute.

That's the second time today I've been called cute. :p I mean, in real, non - NSG world I was called cute.

Damn it... I'm always the cute one ,never the sexy guy...:(

Always the friend , never the one night stand...

That's the second time today I've been called cute. :p I mean, in real, non - NSG world I was called cute.

Damn it... I'm always the cute one ,never the sexy guy...:(

Always the friend , never the one night stand...

It'll happen eventually. With a transsexual butch prostitute, but it'll happen. =)

<3

... i think you will be glad to know i read up on it...

thing is, there are religions known as satanism that do worship evil and torture people...

i think the name "satanism" was a bad move for LaVey... if it was called "LaVeyism" i think more peeps would take it seriously...

but i'm still a humanist, i agree with some things LaVey says but it doesn't matter what you believe in as long as you are a decent dude :p


Question: how come LaVey has a capital letter in the middle of his name???

It'll happen eventually. With a transsexual butch prostitute, but it'll happen. =)

<3

How'd you know about Reba?! :D

There we are. sorry if i didnt read your other stuff.


Hmm.
1. Satanism attracts me to it, because it is plagiarized, yes but it is a complete stack of the philosophies, i believe in all of them and instead of saying im a Humanist-Atheist ectectectectect i shorten it.


2. The symbol of satan is used because it embodies the entire philosophy of the religion, if there was a non-religious symbol that came as close id probobly use that

Stock answers, but not really the kind of relection I was looking for.

Why do you feel the need to use the associations established by LaVey and find a label for yourself? It strikes me that diliberately labeling oneself amounts to a kind of willing conformity. Rather than reading a stack of philosophies for oneself, Satanism tends to take the shortcut of simply accepting one man's organization of philosophy and rallying behind his interpretation. Worse, finding and claiming a label is somewhat self-righteous, bordering on the claiming of a "good-guy badge."

As for the use of the symbol of Satan, it just seems...immature. It is like occult training wheels, giving you a simple focus to keep you from having to concentrate on staying level. What you seem to be missing is that the qualities present in the LaVey's Satan are present in many figures throughout history and literature. The choosing of Satan has some significance, and it has always felt to me like a specific attempt to use Christianity in order to advance your cause. LaVey went out of his way to distance himself from Christian cosmology, yet he used the symbol of Satan in order to co-opt factors which he liked(not the least of which being press coverage).

btw Ostroeuropa didn't you say in your other thread you were part jewish?

How'd you know about Reba?! :D

http://www.whok.com/sections/staff/morning%20show/images/reba.jpg

btw Ostroeuropa didn't you say in your other thread you were part jewish?

Yes, as a race.

btw Ostroeuropa didn't you say in your other thread you were part jewish?

jewish for six hours of day, then satan guy for another six, irish for six and finishes off as british before starting cycle again.

jewish for six hours of day, then satan guy for another six, irish for six and finishes off as british before starting cycle again.

Yehh. the irishman is when im asleep :p

Yehh. the irishman is when im asleep :p

oh good shot!

http://www.whok.com/sections/staff/morning%20show/images/reba.jpg

Oh dammit... the only transexual I sleep with becomes famous! What luck.

That darn texan accent...:fluffle:

:p

Oh dammit... the only transexual I sleep with becomes famous! What luck.

That darn texan accent...:fluffle:

:p

Inorite. The only thing worse than you sleeping with someone and they becoming famous is that same thing happening, but the person is a transexual. You can't even tell everyone you did it with them because you don't wanna admit to having sex with a tranny. :p

Inorite. The only thing worse than you sleeping with someone and they becoming famous is that same thing happening, but the person is a transexual. You can't even tell everyone you did it with them because you don't wanna admit to having sex with a tranny. :p

Did I happen to say I've also done it with Dolly Parton?

No kidding... I got a thang for them southe'n gals :D

Did I happen to say I've also done it with Dolly Parton?

No kidding... I got a thang for them southe'n gals :D

Pre-mortom, I'm hoping. :p

I bet you're real popular with all those other rebels. Fight the conformist system, man!

Stock answers, but not really the kind of relection I was looking for.

Why do you feel the need to use the associations established by LaVey and find a label for yourself? It strikes me that diliberately labeling oneself amounts to a kind of willing conformity. Rather than reading a stack of philosophies for oneself, Satanism tends to take the shortcut of simply accepting one man's organization of philosophy and rallying behind his interpretation. Worse, finding and claiming a label is somewhat self-righteous, bordering on the claiming of a "good-guy badge."

As for the use of the symbol of Satan, it just seems...immature. It is like occult training wheels, giving you a simple focus to keep you from having to concentrate on staying level. What you seem to be missing is that the qualities present in the LaVey's Satan are present in many figures throughout history and literature. The choosing of Satan has some significance, and it has always felt to me like a specific attempt to use Christianity in order to advance your cause. LaVey went out of his way to distance himself from Christian cosmology, yet he used the symbol of Satan in order to co-opt factors which he liked(not the least of which being press coverage).


Very well said.

I've never understood the need to identify yourself with a self-proclaimed nonconformist movement. Sure, there's some good stuff in Satanism, but there's some good stuff in all religions. Hell, I was raised Catholic, and most of my family is still Catholic. Despite the negativity Catholicism is usually received with, there are some very good things that Catholicism teaches, and there are some very good Catholics who follow these things.

But back to the Satanist who started this thread. Why do you feel the need to label yourself in such a way? And where the hell do you come off calling other people sheep? I don't think you're looking for an honest debate at all. I think you're looking for a forum in which you can call everyone who disagrees with you a conformist moron, which is pretty much the purpose of NS General.

On that note, I'm a Heraclitean Anarchist-Pastafarian Cthulhu worshipper. Anyone who isn't is a sheep.;)

You mean the peasant boy who fell in love with a whore?

I dont particularly care.

Doesn't matter. He still loves you.

Very well said.

I've never understood the need to identify yourself with a self-proclaimed nonconformist movement. Sure, there's some good stuff in Satanism, but there's some good stuff in all religions. Hell, I was raised Catholic, and most of my family is still Catholic. Despite the negativity Catholicism is usually received with, there are some very good things that Catholicism teaches, and there are some very good Catholics who follow these things.

But back to the Satanist who started this thread. Why do you feel the need to label yourself in such a way? And where the hell do you come off calling other people sheep? I don't think you're looking for an honest debate at all. I think you're looking for a forum in which you can call everyone who disagrees with you a conformist moron, which is pretty much the purpose of NS General.

On that note, I'm a Heraclitean Anarchist-Pastafarian Cthulhu worshipper. Anyone who isn't is a sheep.;)

i'm the creator and only member of a belief system that i made up one morning.
ha ha. (www.correctism.cjb.net)

forum doesnt work anymore. next energy burst i get me make better.

On that note, I'm a Heraclitean Anarchist-Pastafarian Cthulhu worshipper. Anyone who isn't is a sheep.;)

Society just doesn't understand us nonconformists. they're all blinded by what giant corporations and religion tells them. god, what sheep.

*turns on some nonconformist music (blink 182, good charlotte, korn, slipknot)*

I find a lot to admire in Laveys philosiphy. Still a lot of religious crap but certainly better than most, and not what I (or, I imagine most people) would have imagined satanism to be.

I especially like the sins. Stupidity has pissed me off for too long. Other people's and my own.

soooo. Laveyan Satanism is basically Hedonistic Anarchism labelled in such a way as to draw attention to itself? I prefer Valentinism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentine_Michael_Smith) anyway.

Ostroeuropa, I wish you no end of luck in resolving your control issues. Every "Satanist" I've had the dubious pleasure of knowing in my time has finally had to contend with those, some time or another. Usually, they're resolved shortly before or after selling LaVeys' books at a garage sale - but who knows? Maybe you'll manage to reconcile your place in this continuum without managing to estrange others through the auspices of this particular brand of off-the-shelf narcissism & obnoxiousness.

Perhaps along the way, you'll also learn to cultivate a sense of humour and/or wit to take the edge off your smugness. And perhaps not. Good luck with that.

Every "Satanist" I've had the dubious pleasure of knowing in my time has finally had to contend with those, some time or another. Usually, they're resolved shortly before or after selling LaVeys' books at a garage sale - but who knows? Maybe you'll manage to reconcile your place in this continuum without managing to estrange others through the auspices of this particular brand of off-the-shelf narcissism & obnoxiousness.

.

Dont be so dramatic, garage sales arent THAT bad.

Good for you, satanism isn't a bad religion - if practiced correctly, rather than the "I had some LSD and made a blood pact with a chair" part.

I'm an occultist, not a satanist, though, and not only have I never started threads with that bit of information, but also I find weird that a satanist is proselytizing. Most non-mainstream religions are enlightened enough to know better, and I know that satanism is one of them.

It's that or you just posted "I'm a satanist" expecting knee-jerk reactions even though you posted links (because it's known that people don't always read them) much like I could, say, start an "I'm a chaos mage" thread with links, wait for the ridicule the expression would get me - due to people's ignorance of what Crowley and A. O. Spare meant with "chaos magick", which is applied use of the unconscious mind through a series of ways - and react with ridicule, like you did.

Real occultists point out their status as one when it's relevant, and, even then, measuring wether or not they should. Only religious fundies or "pink wiccans" and other wannabes wield their religion or occultism idea like a semantic sword.

Further, unlike Christianity or Islam, there are many methods of practicing occultism - it's an umbrella term which I use here, and to which satanists are seen as belonging as well. As such, it's a vast field of studies. A chaote may know nothing about wicca and be an occultist all the same, and a wiccan may know nothing about chaos magick and be an occultist all the same.

More power to you for picking a religion that you think is right regardless of what society thinks. It's a hard path, it's sometimes a lonely one and it's certainly one in which you must put effort IF you're serious about it (and not doing it to annoy parents). But proselytizing, going "I'm a satanist/occultist, IN YOUR FACE SOCIETY!" and so on are no-nos in this field.

And people aren't likely to be afraid of us anymore if we go around informing them we're occultists. Which is a GOOD THING, otherwise we'd have to hide what we do or burn at the stake. You're not contributing to "our agenda", and the quotation marks are there for a reason, by rubbing your choice on the face of everyone else. You would if you did good deeds, helped people, and THEN, if the point was raised, inform them you're a satanist. And when people wonder "oh, but isn't that an evil religion, and you're a nice guy", you'd have an opening, there'd be one less misguided person in the world about our fields of study, and this would work.

We are NOT mainstream religions. We do NOT proselytize. We are NOT spoiled teenagers. We do NOT wield words for shock value. We do NOT use occultism as a way to make people angry or scared at us. We deal with concepts most people do not understand, and we may enlighten them on it much like an engineer would be able to enlighten most of us in his field of engineering. That's what we do. And, surprise, it's not different from a guy with an engineering degree.

Except he doesn't go about going "I'm an engineer!" unless a question about engineering comes up. Likewise, real occultists don't do that either unless their knowledge is called for.

And people aren't likely to be afraid of us anymore if we go around informing them we're occultists. Which is a GOOD THING, otherwise we'd have to hide what we do or burn at the stake. You're not contributing to "our agenda", and the quotation marks are there for a reason, by rubbing your choice on the face of everyone else. You would if you did good deeds, helped people, and THEN, if the point was raised, inform them you're a satanist. And when people wonder "oh, but isn't that an evil religion, and you're a nice guy", you'd have an opening, there'd be one less misguided person in the world about our fields of study, and this would work.

We are NOT mainstream religions. We do NOT proselytize. We are NOT spoiled teenagers. We do NOT wield words for shock value. We do NOT use occultism as a way to make people angry or scared at us. We deal with concepts most people do not understand, and we may enlighten them on it much like an engineer would be able to enlighten most of us in his field of engineering. That's what we do. And, surprise, it's not different from a guy with an engineering degree.

Except he doesn't go about going "I'm an engineer!" unless a question about engineering comes up. Likewise, real occultists don't do that either unless their knowledge is called for.

good for you. thats nice.

"On that note, I'm a Heraclitean Anarchist-Pastafarian Cthulhu worshipper. Anyone who isn't is a sheep"
He wrote.

Amen.

We support all the true whoresipers in their great goals.
The Lord is us, we are the Lord.

However we give a plus to Cthulu, our Master.
The only one able to fart when dead and dreaming to take over the pope.

My opinion on Satanism goes something like this: meh. I think I'll stick to Atheism.

Well well, aren't we the little rebel then, eh? tisk tisk. I'm sure your mother and father are as proud as punch that you've turned into such a fine person.

As for me, I outgrew Marilyn Manson and Deicide years ago.

Take off the trench coat and put down the mascara. Nobody cares about your silly Dungeons and Dragons playin' ass, let alone your stupid 'religion'.

you---> :p :mp5: <-- me

Good for you, satanism isn't a bad religion - if practiced correctly, rather than the "I had some LSD and made a blood pact with a chair" part.

I'm an occultist, not a satanist, though, and not only have I never started threads with that bit of information, but also I find weird that a satanist is proselytizing. Most non-mainstream religions are enlightened enough to know better, and I know that satanism is one of them.

It's that or you just posted "I'm a satanist" expecting knee-jerk reactions even though you posted links (because it's known that people don't always read them) much like I could, say, start an "I'm a chaos mage" thread with links, wait for the ridicule the expression would get me - due to people's ignorance of what Crowley and A. O. Spare meant with "chaos magick", which is applied use of the unconscious mind through a series of ways - and react with ridicule, like you did.

Real occultists point out their status as one when it's relevant, and, even then, measuring wether or not they should. Only religious fundies or "pink wiccans" and other wannabes wield their religion or occultism idea like a semantic sword.

Further, unlike Christianity or Islam, there are many methods of practicing occultism - it's an umbrella term which I use here, and to which satanists are seen as belonging as well. As such, it's a vast field of studies. A chaote may know nothing about wicca and be an occultist all the same, and a wiccan may know nothing about chaos magick and be an occultist all the same.

More power to you for picking a religion that you think is right regardless of what society thinks. It's a hard path, it's sometimes a lonely one and it's certainly one in which you must put effort IF you're serious about it (and not doing it to annoy parents). But proselytizing, going "I'm a satanist/occultist, IN YOUR FACE SOCIETY!" and so on are no-nos in this field.

And people aren't likely to be afraid of us anymore if we go around informing them we're occultists. Which is a GOOD THING, otherwise we'd have to hide what we do or burn at the stake. You're not contributing to "our agenda", and the quotation marks are there for a reason, by rubbing your choice on the face of everyone else. You would if you did good deeds, helped people, and THEN, if the point was raised, inform them you're a satanist. And when people wonder "oh, but isn't that an evil religion, and you're a nice guy", you'd have an opening, there'd be one less misguided person in the world about our fields of study, and this would work.

We are NOT mainstream religions. We do NOT proselytize. We are NOT spoiled teenagers. We do NOT wield words for shock value. We do NOT use occultism as a way to make people angry or scared at us. We deal with concepts most people do not understand, and we may enlighten them on it much like an engineer would be able to enlighten most of us in his field of engineering. That's what we do. And, surprise, it's not different from a guy with an engineering degree.

Except he doesn't go about going "I'm an engineer!" unless a question about engineering comes up. Likewise, real occultists don't do that either unless their knowledge is called for.


This is probably the first time I have agreed wholeheartedly with you but there it is.

Well well, aren't we the little rebel then, eh? tisk tisk. I'm sure your mother and father are as proud as punch that you've turned into such a fine person.

As for me, I outgrew Marilyn Manson and Deicide years ago.

Take off the trench coat and put down the mascara. Nobody cares about your silly Dungeons and Dragons playin' ass, let alone your stupid 'religion'.

you---> :p :mp5: <-- me

marilyn manson isnt a satanist. anton just ordained him without asking him.

I didn't outgrow Manson... but that's because I always liked his music for the music, not the image.

Why would someone want to be a satanist? What good has satan done for you? Oh well you're gonna be screwed when the world ends :D

Why would someone want to be a satanist? What good has satan done for you? Oh well you're gonna be screwed when the world ends :D

wont we all?

i mean come on. its the end of the world

This is probably the first time I have agreed wholeheartedly with you but there it is.

That's because I know what I'm talking about. ;)

silly Dungeons and Dragons playin.

That's uncalled for. Just like Christianity, occultism is not an RPG.

You mean the peasant boy who fell in love with a whore?

Carpenter :p

That's uncalled for. Just like Christianity, occultism is not an RPG.

Yeah, people shouldn't insult RPG's by comparing them to religions.

Yeah, people shouldn't insult RPG's by comparing them to religions.

Should have seen that one coming.

Ive read up on satanism, i hear what they say "oh, we just love the worldly and reject heavenly things".
Then i meet satanists in person...
They hate everyone who is religious, they blab on about them knowing some hidden truth about the world and the government and such, without any fact backing them up, and they claim everyone who is against them is prejudiced, end of discussion.
1. So, you know some hidden truth that nobody else knows because they have been brainwashed/ are biased, and, therefore, have not found the truth?
get some damn proof you emo.

Should have seen that one coming.

Unoriginal, certainly, but originality is no measure of validity.

Unoriginal, certainly, but originality is no measure of validity.

Which would help your case if what you said was valid.

Which would help your case if what you said was valid.

RPGs admit that they are fiction. Religions pretend otherwise. That's how I see it, but if you don't like that viewpoint, I'm not going to try to force it on you. If it's an unpleasant idea, reject it. Not a rational approach, but if it makes you happy, why not?

Sooo... yeah. Is the guy that started this little thread even around anymore?

I started reading the thread and got to about page 5 before I got bored. I did find this brilliant quote that I want to use someplace
Of course, this has been going on forever. Im sure that back in the good ol' days of 120 BC Roman youth would occasionally don furs and head over to the local amphitheatre to listen to an intoxicated Gaul scream incoherently to a near-random beat, perhaps stolen from a popular song of last year and modified slightly to avoid those nasty Roman courts.

If the question has already been asked, forgive me. I'm far to lethargic and apathetic to read the whole thread.

Isn't Satan a Christian construct? I thought Christianity was the only religion that had Satan in it. Maybe I'm wrong *shrugs*

It just seems to me that if you have to be a Christian to believe in Satan in the first place, wht the heck does that make people who call them selves Satanists? I'm quite serious. Are they simply "anti-christians" that chose the name they knew the Church despised and used to vilify other religions with?

I personally know one Satanist. Nice guy. Not mall-goth chic. Lots of tatoos. A practitioner of Satanism since the Early 80's so it wasn't because it was trendy. He tells me he practices Satanism because it lets him "do what he wants."

I am a great supporter of "let people believe a coke can is god if that makes them happy." But I have to say that "It let's me do what I want." is an amazingly contradictory statement.

I just don't get it. Why not be an atheist, if you just want to be left alone to do what you want? Why profess belief in a dogma and ritual that you didn't write yourself? Why even have a "super-being" that needs worship?

Ah well. He still makes a great brisket and always brings great beer to the BBQs.

RPGs admit that they are fiction. Religions pretend otherwise. That's how I see it, but if you don't like that viewpoint, I'm not going to try to force it on you. If it's an unpleasant idea, reject it. Not a rational approach, but if it makes you happy, why not?

I do not reject it because it's an unpleasant idea. I reject it because I deem occultism to work, from what my personal experience teaches me. If I did not, I would not be in this field of study, which I approach with a scientific mind, rather than a "faith" idea. Occultism is a field of study. If a theory doesn't see support, it is dropped, and my theories would be dropped, and some in fact were, when reality did not, as I see it, correspond to them.

I do not reject it because it's an unpleasant idea. I reject it because I deem occultism to work, from what my personal experience teaches me. If I did not, I would not be in this field of study, which I approach with a scientific mind, rather than a "faith" idea. Occultism is a field of study. If a theory doesn't see support, it is dropped, and my theories would be dropped, and some in fact were, when reality did not, as I see it, correspond to them.

If it's a science and not a religion, why were you bothered when I made a comment about religion? Also, in what respect do you mean that it "works?.

On that note, I'm a Heraclitean Anarchist-Pastafarian Cthulhu worshipper. Anyone who isn't is a sheep.;)

Dude, Crowley would so totally p0wn Cthulhu. That big tentacly monster would be all like "I'm an elder punk from time out of space come to shatter your mind and eat your soul..." and Crowley would be all like "Yeah, well I once did a big pile of blow and raped the Loch Ness Monster and guess what, I've got more blow and you've got a butthole!" and Cthulhu would be all like "wtf, I'm getting out here!"


.....


...sorry about that, I seem to have accidentally summoned a teenage demon. :p

If it's a science and not a religion, why were you bothered when I made a comment about religion? Also, in what respect do you mean that it "works?.

I wasn't bothered at all. I answered you. If you believe that anyone that answers something you say is bothered by you, you might have an issue.

Working = yielding result or being coherent within a system. Just like prayer, or merely hoping. You atheists think you escape the idea of "hope yielding result" but you don't. It shows when you root for a team to win, for instance. If you thought that your hope does nothing for a team, you'd not be bothered to watch sports.

Radiation was undetectable up till about a hundred years ago. Yet it existed before that, in the form even of the sun. Other forces, like gravity itself, were unexplained until a certain time. Do you claim that it is impossible that other, as-yet-unexplained forces exist? If that's so, you should read on quantum physics.

wont we all?

i mean come on. its the end of the world

No, if you accept Jesus into your heart you'll get to be killed before the world ends then you'll turn into a zombie so you can point and laugh at everyone who didn't have the courage to march themselves to the slaughter. In between bouts of singing, that is.

Your all showing reactions that are written down.
Your sheep.
Its quite enjoyable.
Let me toy with you.

Now comes an angry post, but now that ive said that it will be a nice one, but now that ive said that it will be a critical one, now ive said that a funny one, now ive said that only the most strong willed person will be able to make the next post at all.

And now ive said that the weakest will be eager to look strong.

Got it?

You’re being rebellious by joining an organized religion.

Good job, you're definitely not a sheep.

I wasn't bothered at all. I answered you. If you believe that anyone that answers something you say is bothered by you, you might have an issue.
Well, you sound like you're getting defensive - saying that I "might have an issue" and all that. Never mind. If you're not bothered, good. I have no desire to be inflammatory.

Working = yielding result or being coherent within a system. Just like prayer, or merely hoping. You atheists think you escape the idea of "hope yielding result" but you don't. It shows when you root for a team to win, for instance. If you thought that your hope does nothing for a team, you'd not be bothered to watch sports.
Generally, I don't watch sports. If I do, it's simply because I enjoy the experience, not because I think that watching it will affect the score at the end.

I do not reject it because it's an unpleasant idea. I reject it because I deem occultism to work, from what my personal experience teaches me. If I did not, I would not be in this field of study, which I approach with a scientific mind, rather than a "faith" idea. Occultism is a field of study. If a theory doesn't see support, it is dropped, and my theories would be dropped, and some in fact were, when reality did not, as I see it, correspond to them.

Trying to call occultism a field of scientific study is kinda missing the entire point. One of the halmarks of any spiritual experiance is it's complete disconnect from traditional logic. The kinds of work that occultists(or, for that matter, anyone with a deep interest in spiritual endevor) engage in exist beyond traditional schemes of logic. They are highly symbolic experiences influenced more by primary process thinking than secondary process thinking.

The problem with theories in something as subjective as religious experiance is that you inevitably end up running into the fact that everyone sees reality in a slightly different light. I've seen Buddhists manage things I could never mimick within the confines of my reality, and I know that the path I've taken wouldn't likely work for a Wiccan or a Catholic. Thats the whole problem with dogma and trying to find objective truth in religion: the best you can do is find whats right for you. The instant you try to get some external validity is when you cross over into the province of the prostelytizer.

I remember working a few years ago with someone who had been an occultist long enough that he took pity and the dumb little student I was and decided to point me in the right direction. The best advice he ever gave me was this: if you want to learn how to bring down a building with your mind you should go into demolitions, if you want to kill your enemies the army is your place, if you're looking to find the ultimate trip you should probably major in chemestry, this kind of work is really only good if you want to get to know yourself, your world, and your place within it.

Trying to call occultism a field of scientific study is kinda missing the entire point. One of the halmarks of any spiritual experiance is it's complete disconnect from traditional logic. The kinds of work that occultists(or, for that matter, anyone with a deep interest in spiritual endevor) engage in exist beyond traditional schemes of logic. They are highly symbolic experiences influenced more by primary process thinking than secondary process thinking.

The problem with theories in something as subjective as religious experiance is that you inevitably end up running into the fact that everyone sees reality in a slightly different light. I've seen Buddhists manage things I could never mimick within the confines of my reality, and I know that the path I've taken wouldn't likely work for a Wiccan or a Catholic. Thats the whole problem with dogma and trying to find objective truth in religion: the best you can do is find whats right for you. The instant you try to get some external validity is when you cross over into the province of the prostelytizer.

I remember working a few years ago with someone who had been an occultist long enough that he took pity and the dumb little student I was and decided to point me in the right direction. The best advice he ever gave me was this: if you want to learn how to bring down a building with your mind you should go into demolitions, if you want to kill your enemies the army is your place, if you're looking to find the ultimate trip you should probably major in chemestry, this kind of work is really only good if you want to get to know yourself, your world, and your place within it.

Oh, I do not call it science in the sense physics is one, I try to approach it via the scientific method, which is used for most fields of study, including non-exact-sciences. I agree with your points there, in general.

Much like, say, literature or sociology is a science.

Generally, I don't watch sports. If I do, it's simply because I enjoy the experience, not because I think that watching it will affect the score at the end.

Sports was an example. But we can elaborate: Do you not find sports (or whatever experience in which the outcome is at doubt) enjoyable BECAUSE the outcome is at doubt?

Oh, I do not call it science in the sense physics is one, I try to approach it via the scientific method, which is used for most fields of study, including non-exact-sciences. I agree with your points there, in general.

Much like, say, literature or sociology is a science.

I can see your argument, I just don't really agree. I've always felt that studying spiritual experiance with the scientific method (because thats what you use when you study) is like trying to use a paintbrush to sculpt. The concept is the same but the medium demands you use different tools.

I can see your argument, I just don't really agree. I've always felt that studying spiritual experiance with the scientific method (because thats what you use when you study) is like trying to use a paintbrush to sculpt. The concept is the same but the medium demands you use different tools.

I think, on the other hand, that, to preserve a certain degree of coherence - in that one doesn't doublethink to do it, like some Christians that think that God is at the same time all-good and willing to send people to Hell, that this method could be useful...

:mp5: I do not agree with satanism. It does deserve all the bad news they put out there:sniper:

:mp5: I do not agree with satanism. It does deserve all the bad news they put out there:sniper:

Wow, and those smilies of yours no doubt make your post all the more credible. Not to mention the fact that you don't know jackshit of what you're talking about.

Wow, and those smilies of yours no doubt make your post all the more credible. Not to mention the fact that you don't know jackshit of what you're talking about.

I know enough about it to sympathize more with the gun-smiley n00b you're taking to task than the smug lil' troll who started this thread. Lay off, Hkk. Save it for something worthwhile.

I know enough about it to sympathize more with the gun-smiley n00b you're taking to task than the smug lil' troll who started this thread. Lay off, Hkk. Save it for something worthwhile.

Meh. I find the troll misguided (even because he acts like a n00b in OCCULTISM ITSELF as well), but that doesn't preclude me from finding the OTHER troll equally so. Especially because this kind of "it deserves its bad rep" idea before knowing the subject is the kind of thing that also generates pseudo-moral panic against MY field of study.

"Your sheep"(That satanist guy)
Eh? What about my sheep?
You better not do any of your satanic fire-demon things to my sheep..
Class 'A' wool right there..

Anyhow, if you meant "You're sheep" and refer to the domestic herbivorous type..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_sheep

I see few resemblences.

And who are you to say I am a sheep? Eh? eh? I could be a fellow lunatic.

"Your sheep"(That satanist guy)
Eh? What about my sheep?
You better not do any of your satanic fire-demon things to my sheep..
Class 'A' wool right there..

Anyhow, if you meant "You're sheep" and refer to the domestic herbivorous type..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_sheep

I see few resemblences.

And who are you to say I am a sheep? Eh? eh? I could be a fellow lunatic.

He was referring to a psychological condition known as Herd instinct, which both sheep and humans suffer from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_instinct

SHEEPLE!
lolroflmoazorz...
My new favourite term. So... since he appears to hint that he isn't a Sheeple, I guess he is not animal nor human..
*puts on tin foil hat*

The OP is using flawed logic, calling us all sheep raised on TV and the like. If you want to talk about a herd instinct it seems he's been influenced by Satanism and the whole anarchist mentallity, these are herds albeit a much smaller ones. I don't watch TV I don't believe in God, but I still believe this guy is full of shit and troll for saying out of the blue that he is a member of a religon that opposes three of the worlds major religons today.

SHEEPLE!
lolroflmoazorz...
My new favourite term. So... since he appears to hint that he isn't a Sheeple, I guess he is not animal nor human..
*puts on tin foil hat*

Are you capable of imagination?:rolleyes:

It is a PSYCHOLOGICAL condition.

The OP is using flawed logic, calling us all sheep raised on TV and the like. If you want to talk about a herd instinct it seems he's been influenced by Satanism and the whole anarchist mentallity, these are herds albeit a much smaller ones. I don't watch TV I don't believe in God, but I still believe this guy is full of shit and troll for saying out of the blue that he is a member of a religon that opposes three of the worlds major religons today.

It's not that its values are "perverted" or anything - satanism isn't a really abnormal religion. It's that he said it out of the blue, as I said before.

Well, I'm going to bed.

Are you capable of imagination?:rolleyes:

It is a PSYCHOLOGICAL condition.

Yes, I understood that from the beginning...
It is a FACETIOUS post.

It's not that its values are "perverted" or anything - satanism isn't a really abnormal religion. It's that he said it out of the blue, as I said before. Technically, it's values are a perversion of the traditional Church, but without that as a consideration you'd be right.

The more ironic aspect of the OP is that his Thread Title is in-itself, against the views of his stated religion. The reaction I tend to have to such a statement is, "So what? That mean you're gonna conduct rituals surrounded by votive candles or curse people in the name of your religion?"

Big surprise, that isn't unique to the realm of LaVey.



In more entertaining news, nice to see a Callahan fan, pyotr.

w00t for anal sex!

Ahhh.

The irony.

to be rebellious i shall convert to the most submissive religion on the planet.
You might not have known this, but "Islam" literally means "submission" in Arabic.

I've read up on satanism, and I really don't like it...

Me either. Satan is a double-crossing deceiver who wants nothing more than to damn as many souls to Hell as he possibly can.

And Hell is a place of LITERAL BURNING FIRE, TORMENT, AND SUFFERING.
If you go there, you will NOT enjoy it for one nanosecond.

your =/= you're

I wish more people had a grasp of the your/you're difference; it irks me when one is substituted for the other ("Can I borrow you're phone?" or "Your a loser!")

I think Satanism is as legitimate as any other religion, in certain ways - it comes from a bible with a set of teachings, it has various life principals, a philosophy, and various ideals. But it gets bad press for good reasons - not just because people don't understand (and therefore, are afraid of) its ideals and teachings, but also principally because of the very serious crimes that are commonly associated with the 'religion', such as church burning, murder, etc, which cannot be overlooked.
I think that Satanism is hypocritical, in the sense that it is so against the Christian\Judaeic bible: without the old testament, Satanism would not exist - the old testament is where Satan was first given his goat-like image, based around paegen gods in an effort to both position everyone against paeganism and thus accept Christianity, and also to deter people from sinning by telling them that they would be dealt with by him if they did. I'm not suggesting, however, that Satanists believe in Satan as an actual, physical deity - though some of them do, most do not, as it would be hypocritical not to believe in God as a deity but to belive in Satan as a deity, which is equally valid. Philosophical Satanists, at least, follow and worship what Satan represents, which involves doing whatever you feel like, pursuing personal interest at all costs, being selfish and unempathetic towards others, etc.
Having said this, the reason I find Satanism hypocritical is that irionically, without the bible, 'Satan' as a deity AND as a philosophical entity would not exist, and so any Satanist who claims not to believe in the events of the bible or God are hypocrits, and quite frankly, idiots.
Having said that I think Satanism is, for those who practice the religion, equally as valid as things like Christianity and Catholocism, I believe that the teachings it bestows upon the practitioners are of an anti-social nature. Several of the more extreme teachings involve harming others without remorse, and things of that ilk. I believe that no 'religion' or religious cult, as I would see Satanism as, regardless of which country it hails from and what culture it belongs to, should involve the harming of others for rediculous reasons such as 'because Christians suck'. Any 'religion' that incites violence for no particular reason, such as the burning of Christian churches and Satanic murders, should not be tolerated. Any 'religion' such as this is not so much a 'religion' as it is an extremist cult, and should be dealt with accordingly; with the imprisonment or execution of any offending ring leaders and the disbanding of any of its practices. So, yes, I think Satanism, regardless of how valid it may argueably be as a religion, should be eradicated for its anti-social teachings.
Furthermore, where other religions invite people to join for legitimate reasons, such as giving them hope, something to believe in, positive morals and ethics and a positive life style, I believe that, without wishing to generalise, the vast majority of people who become Satanists are merely looking to make a social statement about themselves - perhaps to make themselves feel scary, to make themselves feel more unique and 'non-conformist', and perhaps even as a practice of their own hatred and mentally unstable behaviour. Generally, the only people who become Satanists are people wishing to draw attention to themselves, as they feel as though nobody cares about them, and that they are virtually dead to the world. For this reason, Satanism should also be destroyed because rather than attracting people to it for good reasons such as self improvement and moral values and good ethics, it attracts people who are attention seekers, and simply want to make a social statement about themselves rather than establishing any true belief.
Furthermore again, I don't think that any religion can be fully understood from a website. To actually figure out wether or not to join a cult such as Satanism, I believe one should actually purchase its bible and attend regular sessions, not just believe everything you read in some dodgy little website or on Wikipedia. Without any true knowledge of it, how can you appreciate it?
Thanks for your time, those are my reasons why Satanism should be eradicated from any decent society.

Scott.

I think Satanism is as legitimate as any other religion, in certain ways - it comes from a bible with a set of teachings, it has various life principals, a philosophy, and various ideals. But it gets bad press for good reasons - not just because people don't understand (and therefore, are afraid of) its ideals and teachings, but also principally because of the very serious crimes that are commonly associated with the 'religion', such as church burning, murder, etc, which cannot be overlooked.
I think that Satanism is hypocritical, in the sense that it is so against the Christian\Judaeic bible: without the old testament, Satanism would not exist - the old testament is where Satan was first given his goat-like image, based around paegen gods in an effort to both position everyone against paeganism and thus accept Christianity, and also to deter people from sinning by telling them that they would be dealt with by him if they did. I'm not suggesting, however, that Satanists believe in Satan as an actual, physical deity - though some of them do, most do not, as it would be hypocritical not to believe in God as a deity but to belive in Satan as a deity, which is equally valid. Philosophical Satanists, at least, follow and worship what Satan represents, which involves doing whatever you feel like, pursuing personal interest at all costs, being selfish and unempathetic towards others, etc.
Having said this, the reason I find Satanism hypocritical is that irionically, without the bible, 'Satan' as a deity AND as a philosophical entity would not exist, and so any Satanist who claims not to believe in the events of the bible or God are hypocrits, and quite frankly, idiots.
Having said that I think Satanism is, for those who practice the religion, equally as valid as things like Christianity and Catholocism, I believe that the teachings it bestows upon the practitioners are of an anti-social nature. Several of the more extreme teachings involve harming others without remorse, and things of that ilk. I believe that no 'religion' or religious cult, as I would see Satanism as, regardless of which country it hails from and what culture it belongs to, should involve the harming of others for rediculous reasons such as 'because Christians suck'. Any 'religion' that incites violence for no particular reason, such as the burning of Christian churches and Satanic murders, should not be tolerated. Any 'religion' such as this is not so much a 'religion' as it is an extremist cult, and should be dealt with accordingly; with the imprisonment or execution of any offending ring leaders and the disbanding of any of its practices. So, yes, I think Satanism, regardless of how valid it may argueably be as a religion, should be eradicated for its anti-social teachings.
Furthermore, where other religions invite people to join for legitimate reasons, such as giving them hope, something to believe in, positive morals and ethics and a positive life style, I believe that, without wishing to generalise, the vast majority of people who become Satanists are merely looking to make a social statement about themselves - perhaps to make themselves feel scary, to make themselves feel more unique and 'non-conformist', and perhaps even as a practice of their own hatred and mentally unstable behaviour. Generally, the only people who become Satanists are people wishing to draw attention to themselves, as they feel as though nobody cares about them, and that they are virtually dead to the world. For this reason, Satanism should also be destroyed because rather than attracting people to it for good reasons such as self improvement and moral values and good ethics, it attracts people who are attention seekers, and simply want to make a social statement about themselves rather than establishing any true belief.
Furthermore again, I don't think that any religion can be fully understood from a website. To actually figure out wether or not to join a cult such as Satanism, I believe one should actually purchase its bible and attend regular sessions, not just believe everything you read in some dodgy little website or on Wikipedia. Without any true knowledge of it, how can you appreciate it?
Thanks for your time, those are my reasons why Satanism should be eradicated from any decent society.

Scott.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I couldn't possibly have said it better myself.

Islam is very little different, in that both Islam and Satanism (I&S) condone violence against dissenters.

Most of the difference, what little there is, is that the Satanists' object of worship is Satan, a.k.a. Lucifer; in Islam they do not give him a proper name; he goes by "Allah", which literally in Arabic means "the god", and is not a proper name, but a common noun.

Satanists are like the people who when they play games always want to be the bad guys. They want to be the Sith in Star Wars. They complain about how trolls and orcs aren't playable races in Lord of the Rings. They differentiate between good and evil, and choose the evil side.

Hey, most of us do that, but at least THEY admit it!

Me either. Satan is a double-crossing deceiver who wants nothing more than to damn as many souls to Hell as he possibly can.

And Hell is a place of LITERAL BURNING FIRE, TORMENT, AND SUFFERING.
If you go there, you will NOT enjoy it for one nanosecond.


1. If you had actually read anything about actual modern satanism, you would know that it has very little, or nothing at all to do with the Biblical Satan.

2. Can you show me where in the Old Testament, that it describes Hell as being made up of fire and brimstone, and stuff?

Good for you, satanism isn't a bad religion - if practiced correctly, rather than the "I had some LSD and made a blood pact with a chair" part.

I'm an occultist, not a satanist, though, and not only have I never started threads with that bit of information, but also I find weird that a satanist is proselytizing. Most non-mainstream religions are enlightened enough to know better, and I know that satanism is one of them.

It's that or you just posted "I'm a satanist" expecting knee-jerk reactions even though you posted links (because it's known that people don't always read them) much like I could, say, start an "I'm a chaos mage" thread with links, wait for the ridicule the expression would get me - due to people's ignorance of what Crowley and A. O. Spare meant with "chaos magick", which is applied use of the unconscious mind through a series of ways - and react with ridicule, like you did.

Real occultists point out their status as one when it's relevant, and, even then, measuring wether or not they should. Only religious fundies or "pink wiccans" and other wannabes wield their religion or occultism idea like a semantic sword.

Further, unlike Christianity or Islam, there are many methods of practicing occultism - it's an umbrella term which I use here, and to which satanists are seen as belonging as well. As such, it's a vast field of studies. A chaote may know nothing about wicca and be an occultist all the same, and a wiccan may know nothing about chaos magick and be an occultist all the same.

More power to you for picking a religion that you think is right regardless of what society thinks. It's a hard path, it's sometimes a lonely one and it's certainly one in which you must put effort IF you're serious about it (and not doing it to annoy parents). But proselytizing, going "I'm a satanist/occultist, IN YOUR FACE SOCIETY!" and so on are no-nos in this field.

And people aren't likely to be afraid of us anymore if we go around informing them we're occultists. Which is a GOOD THING, otherwise we'd have to hide what we do or burn at the stake. You're not contributing to "our agenda", and the quotation marks are there for a reason, by rubbing your choice on the face of everyone else. You would if you did good deeds, helped people, and THEN, if the point was raised, inform them you're a satanist. And when people wonder "oh, but isn't that an evil religion, and you're a nice guy", you'd have an opening, there'd be one less misguided person in the world about our fields of study, and this would work.

We are NOT mainstream religions. We do NOT proselytize. We are NOT spoiled teenagers. We do NOT wield words for shock value. We do NOT use occultism as a way to make people angry or scared at us. We deal with concepts most people do not understand, and we may enlighten them on it much like an engineer would be able to enlighten most of us in his field of engineering. That's what we do. And, surprise, it's not different from a guy with an engineering degree.

Except he doesn't go about going "I'm an engineer!" unless a question about engineering comes up. Likewise, real occultists don't do that either unless their knowledge is called for.

Well said.

~Satanic Reverend Medivh~

Why is it that those who call others "sheep" are often themselves the "sheep" they speak against? Observation: punk/rebel crowd that blasts everyone else as "conforming to a group" when they themselves...are conforming to a group.

Just an observation.

Satanism preaches egotism and arrogance. It's kinda like the Sith...but not nearly as cool. That said, I'm agnostic.

;)

Pretty sure what I am gonna get for this, but what the hell....

Satanist: Defined as Athiest Lite...

Lutheran: Defined as Catholic Lite...

Agnostics have it right, we are ALL wrong...

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I couldn't possibly have said it better myself.

You wouldn't if you knew what he was talking about. Many people that blow up abortion clinics call themselves christians. They aren't.

Islam is very little different, in that both Islam and Satanism (I&S) condone violence against dissenters.

No, neither does.

Most of the difference, what little there is, is that the Satanists' object of worship is Satan, a.k.a. Lucifer; in Islam they do not give him a proper name; he goes by "Allah", which literally in Arabic means "the god", and is not a proper name, but a common noun.

Not only satanists do NOT worship Lucifer, Muslims worship the same God Christianity does. However, it fits the hateful agenda of some to claim otherwise.

That said, you're just looking for strong reactions.

Satanists are like the people who when they play games always want to be the bad guys. They want to be the Sith in Star Wars. They complain about how trolls and orcs aren't playable races in Lord of the Rings. They differentiate between good and evil, and choose the evil side.

Hey, most of us do that, but at least THEY admit it!

:rolleyes:

They're neutral. They believe in a neutral world.

Not evil.

And I'm not even a satanist, to know that.

I think Satanism is as legitimate as any other religion, in certain ways - it comes from a bible with a set of teachings, it has various life principals, a philosophy, and various ideals. But it gets bad press for good reasons - not just because people don't understand (and therefore, are afraid of) its ideals and teachings, but also principally because of the very serious crimes that are commonly associated with the 'religion', such as church burning, murder, etc, which cannot be overlooked.
I think that Satanism is hypocritical, in the sense that it is so against the Christian\Judaeic bible: without the old testament, Satanism would not exist - the old testament is where Satan was first given his goat-like image, based around paegen gods in an effort to both position everyone against paeganism and thus accept Christianity, and also to deter people from sinning by telling them that they would be dealt with by him if they did. I'm not suggesting, however, that Satanists believe in Satan as an actual, physical deity - though some of them do, most do not, as it would be hypocritical not to believe in God as a deity but to belive in Satan as a deity, which is equally valid. Philosophical Satanists, at least, follow and worship what Satan represents, which involves doing whatever you feel like, pursuing personal interest at all costs, being selfish and unempathetic towards others, etc.
Having said this, the reason I find Satanism hypocritical is that irionically, without the bible, 'Satan' as a deity AND as a philosophical entity would not exist, and so any Satanist who claims not to believe in the events of the bible or God are hypocrits, and quite frankly, idiots.
Having said that I think Satanism is, for those who practice the religion, equally as valid as things like Christianity and Catholocism, I believe that the teachings it bestows upon the practitioners are of an anti-social nature. Several of the more extreme teachings involve harming others without remorse, and things of that ilk. I believe that no 'religion' or religious cult, as I would see Satanism as, regardless of which country it hails from and what culture it belongs to, should involve the harming of others for rediculous reasons such as 'because Christians suck'. Any 'religion' that incites violence for no particular reason, such as the burning of Christian churches and Satanic murders, should not be tolerated. Any 'religion' such as this is not so much a 'religion' as it is an extremist cult, and should be dealt with accordingly; with the imprisonment or execution of any offending ring leaders and the disbanding of any of its practices. So, yes, I think Satanism, regardless of how valid it may argueably be as a religion, should be eradicated for its anti-social teachings.
Furthermore, where other religions invite people to join for legitimate reasons, such as giving them hope, something to believe in, positive morals and ethics and a positive life style, I believe that, without wishing to generalise, the vast majority of people who become Satanists are merely looking to make a social statement about themselves - perhaps to make themselves feel scary, to make themselves feel more unique and 'non-conformist', and perhaps even as a practice of their own hatred and mentally unstable behaviour. Generally, the only people who become Satanists are people wishing to draw attention to themselves, as they feel as though nobody cares about them, and that they are virtually dead to the world. For this reason, Satanism should also be destroyed because rather than attracting people to it for good reasons such as self improvement and moral values and good ethics, it attracts people who are attention seekers, and simply want to make a social statement about themselves rather than establishing any true belief.
Furthermore again, I don't think that any religion can be fully understood from a website. To actually figure out wether or not to join a cult such as Satanism, I believe one should actually purchase its bible and attend regular sessions, not just believe everything you read in some dodgy little website or on Wikipedia. Without any true knowledge of it, how can you appreciate it?
Thanks for your time, those are my reasons why Satanism should be eradicated from any decent society.

Scott.

1- Satanism does not advocate harming others that did no harm to the person.

2- Christianity has a history of doing EXACTLY that.

Why is it that those who call others "sheep" are often themselves the "sheep" they speak against? Observation: punk/rebel crowd that blasts everyone else as "conforming to a group" when they themselves...are conforming to a group.

Just an observation.

Satanism preaches egotism and arrogance. It's kinda like the Sith...but not nearly as cool. That said, I'm agnostic.

;)

It - again - depends on who calls themselves satanists. I could pick Jerry Falwell, that knows NOTHING about ACTUAL Christianity, and claim Christians are intolerant bastards. Conversely, there's the "Mom, Dad, I'm a satanist, pay attention to me" kind and the "I studied this thing LEGITIMATELY and I believe its premises" kind of satanist.

Satanism is just Neitzsche for the Hot Topic crowd.

Yeah, that's my thoughts as well.

Somebody had a quote in their sig that I loved:

"Satanism is like making a website about how much you hate websites".

Well, I did see a website run by people opposed to all technology beyond the stone age.

Trilby63;11877297']Hail! Hail! Hail! Hail! Hail!

Eris! Eris! Eris! Eris! Eris!

All Hail Discordia!

Why is it when you repeatedly write or read a word it stops making sense?

Because you touch yourself at night?

Satanism. Where would attention whores be without it?

I can't speak for the rest of the attention whores, but posting odd news stories and making inappropriate comments works for me.

theistic and non theistic Stanism is usually for social misfits looking to get laid or teenagers wanting to give their parents a heart attack.

:rolleyes:

They're neutral. They believe in a neutral world.

Not evil.

And I'm not even a satanist, to know that.

I dunno, I only had to attended one grotto before I got the impression that these weren't the kinds of people I wanted to hang around with. Or let near my pets.

The problem is that, in choosing a symbol like Satan, Satanism has a tendancy to attract people who have a a thing for "evil" to an almost cartoonish level. There is a reason Richard Ramirez went out of his way to meet LaVey: because all the trappings designed to get media attention and attract the disaffected rebel crowd are the same things that appeal to the "I wanna be evil" crowd. Satanists talk about a neutral world, but they appropriate and wave around an image that most(including themselves, at first) would associate with evil. The Satanic Bible goes into great detail on the merits of revenge. LaVey's essays from "The Devil's Notebok" and "Satan Speaks!" go further in playing up the themes of evil and violence, sometimes not even bothering to mention the metaphoric conceit the faith is based on. You have essays like "On the Importance of Being Evil" which seems to justify any act so long as good might come from it later, and "The Satanic Murder" an essay which manages to imply that some people are born to be murdered while trying to distance the Church of Satan from Ramirez.

Most people forget that, at heart, LaVey was an old carnie. Everything he ever wrote, said, or did was designed to scam someone. He talked about everything with a nudge and a wink, unless he was in front of the press(then he'd be Captain Evil). Now don't get me wrong, I respect that he managed to make a good living by separating fools and their gold(he nicked me for a bit when I was young). Still, you can't deny that Satanism requires a certain nod to evil in order to maintain it's mystique.

Eh. Maybe so, but it's not the "OMFG THEY WANT TO EAT MY CHILDREN'S EYES IN A DARK RITUAL!!!111!!" evil some Christians talk about. That's my issue with the thing the other guy said. Remember the rule: "First they came for satanists without knowing what the word actually meant, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a satanist. Then they came for occultists without knowing what the word actually meant, and I was screwed because there were nobody else to speak out."

Eh. Maybe so, but it's not the "OMFG THEY WANT TO EAT MY CHILDREN'S EYES IN A DARK RITUAL!!!111!!" evil some Christians talk about. That's my issue with the thing the other guy said. Remember the rule: "First they came for satanists without knowing what the word actually meant, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a satanist. Then they came for occultists without knowing what the word actually meant, and I was screwed because there were nobody else to speak out."

Exaggerating the point a bit, aren't you? No one is coming for anyone. So there is some social stigma. What else is new? You don't get into occultism and expect the world to welcome you with open arms. You keep your head down unless you're looking for a fight or you have a point to make. If someone wants to believe me to be some great evil because I have strange rituals and beliefs, thats their problem, not mine. In the immortal words of Private Joker(as The Duke) they can "eat the peanuts outta my shit." I really couldn't care less what others think about me unless they're my boss, my professor, or my wife.

As for the rule, I'm not worried about people coming for me. We haven't gotten to that point yet in this country. If we ever do, I'd be willing to bet I'm a better shot and better armed than the local evangelists, so I'm good.

Exaggerating the point a bit, aren't you? No one is coming for anyone. So there is some social stigma. What else is new? You don't get into occultism and expect the world to welcome you with open arms. You keep your head down unless you're looking for a fight or you have a point to make. If someone wants to believe me to be some great evil because I have strange rituals and beliefs, thats their problem, not mine. In the immortal words of Private Joker(as The Duke) they can "eat the peanuts outta my shit." I really couldn't care less what others think about me unless they're my boss, my professor, or my wife.

As for the rule, I'm not worried about people coming for me. We haven't gotten to that point yet in this country. If we ever do, I'd be willing to bet I'm a better shot and better armed than the local evangelists, so I'm good.

Well yes, I admit I was exaggerating the point, but I lacked a better metaphor at the time. Of course I didn't get into occultism expecting the world to greet me with open arms, but I believe in defending its reputation precisely to prevent, maybe not a copy of what I said, but a lesser version of the point I exaggerated. People in large groups are not smart, as you and I are aware, and even in 1990 there was a local panic over "satanism" in England, a first-world country no less, that separated children from their families unjustly for years. While I am exaggerating the point, this kind of situation fits in my definition of "coming for us".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ronaldsay_child_abuse_scandal

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4602268.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism

http://www.dpjs.co.uk/magic.html

These are two sites that swayed me to the teachings of LaVey.

I recommend you remain open minded and browse through them to expand your horizons.

This thread is so we can debate about this sort of satanism, and whether it deserves the bad press it gets, whether it makes any sense ect.

First of, hahahahahahahahahah hehhhehhhehe hohhohohh eeh ehhe oohh geez!

Secondly, debate about wether it is good or bad to wank the ego, okay me first. It is bad.

Because you touch yourself at night?

Not just at night..

And I don't see what that's got to do with anything!

Well, I did see a website run by people opposed to all technology beyond the stone age.
Primitivists? 0_o I'm a physiocrat myself though.

Anyways, before giving Satanism further consideration, I think reading Nietzsche, Schopenhauer and Rand is in order.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism

http://www.dpjs.co.uk/magic.html

These are two sites that swayed me to the teachings of LaVey.

I recommend you remain open minded and browse through them to expand your horizons.

This thread is so we can debate about this sort of satanism, and whether it deserves the bad press it gets, whether it makes any sense ect.

Why not just read Ayn Rand Objectivism is pretty much satanism without all the spiritual bullshit.

Primitivists? 0_o I'm a physiocrat myself though.

Anyways, before giving Satanism further consideration, I think reading Nietzsche, Schopenhauer and Rand is in order.

A good point. I'd like to add, though, it's not a necessity to have read their works, but it IS a good thing to have this background to study satanism. Much like reading Thomas Aquineas' works isn't necessary, but is GOOD, to understand Christianity, or, to, as you put it, give it consideration.

Also, congrats on not being one of those that go "satanism = devil worship" or "satanism = rebellion against parents" (though the OP surely seems to be the "in your face, society" type many so-called occultists also are).

I can't say exactly what works would be good for occultism though, because it's too vast a field. However, one might want to begin with Gardner for wicca, Crowley for thelema, and some good doses of Descartes for all currents (especially the idea of illusion of reality).

Also, Europa Maxima, I think this is the first post in which I ever agreed with you. o_O

A good point. I'd like to add, though, it's not a necessity to have read their works, but it IS a good thing to have this background to study satanism. Much like reading Thomas Aquineas' works isn't necessary, but is GOOD, to understand Christianity, or, to, as you put it, give it consideration.
Indeed. All the authors I mentioned argue rationally for their positions, and therefore one can better understand them, and if they are truly suited for one's own purposes. Schopenhauer is the best, with his elitist pessimism. I love his comments on the masses "They'd sooner die than think." Bit crazy, but he and the other two philosophers I mentioned are ideal for anyone arguing against social conventions.

Also, congrats on not being one of those that go "satanism = devil worship" or "satanism = rebellion against parents" (though the OP surely seems to be the "in your face, society" type many so-called occultists also are).
I used to be one of those -- but I've changed beyond recognition.


I can't say exactly what works would be good for occultism though, because it's too vast a field. However, one might want to begin with Gardner for wicca, Crowley for thelema, and some good doses of Descartes for all currents (especially the idea of illusion of reality).
Descartes is suitable, in part, but he's arguing for a priori theory really -- rationalism at large. He's one of my favourite philosophers. Berkeley, now, on the other hand, has his entirely own view on ontology that I think would aid anyone trying to consider alternative forms of reality.

Also, Europa Maxima, I think this is the first post in which I ever agreed with you. o_O
I don't recall any prior disagreement with you really.

Why not just read Ayn Rand Objectivism is pretty much satanism without all the spiritual bullshit.
The spiritual bullshit is fun though. <.<

Indeed. All the authors I mentioned argue rationally for their positions, and therefore one can better understand them, and if they are truly suited for one's own purposes. Schopenhauer is the best, with his elitist pessimism. I love his comments on the masses "They'd sooner die than think." Bit crazy, but he and the other two philosophers I mentioned are ideal for anyone arguing against social conventions.


I used to be one of those -- but I've changed beyond recognition.


Descartes is suitable, in part, but he's arguing for a priori theory really -- rationalism at large. He's one of my favourite philosophers. Berkeley, now, on the other hand, has his entirely own view on ontology that I think would aid anyone trying to consider alternative forms of reality.


I don't recall any prior disagreement with you really.

Berkeley? Go on, tell me more - He might just be the kind of thing I'd need to prevent people from going "oh, he's a crackpot/devil worshipper/etc"... o_O

I admit my main specialty in dealing with occultism is more practical than the philosophy behind it. As such, my main readings are on the matter itself. But a philosophical backing for it would help me to no end...

We mostly disagree about immigration and so on, but let's not discuss it here.

Berkeley? Go on, tell me more - He might just be the kind of thing I'd need to prevent people from going "oh, he's a crackpot/devil worshipper/etc"... o_O

I admit my main specialty in dealing with occultism is more practical than the philosophy behind it. As such, my main readings are on the matter itself. But a philosophical backing for it would help me to no end...
He's the proponent of subjective idealism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_idealism). He basically believed that all that exists in the world are minds/souls/whatever (ie perceivers) and ideas (ie things that are perceived), and nothing else; no physical bodies, nothing. Unlike Descartes, he didn't just seek a new ground for his beliefs -- he challenged our orthodox perception of the world as real. According to Berkeley, there is a natural order of ideas (which we call "the natural laws of science" commonly), which means that some ideas are more real than others (ie "real" ideas are more powerful than ideas like dreams, imagination, hallucination etc). He also assumed the existence of an extremely powerful mind (e.g. God) that created certain ideas to appear in one's mind. By doing all of this, he could explain reality.

An analogy is to imagine one is inside virtual reality; reality is inside this world, you are the mind and the programme is God.

Berkeley cannot be directly disproven, but there are arguments against his theories (viz. Reid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Reid)). He's also an Anglican Bishop of the 18th c., so if you do choose to read his works, be aware that the language is rather affected.

I see... I don't know how well one would be able to WORK with occultism based on Berkeley, then, but he sure makes it easier to argue FOR it - or, against it being "bull".

I see... I don't know how well one would be able to WORK with occultism based on Berkeley, then, but he sure makes it easier to argue FOR it - or, against it being "bull".
Well the problem is Descartes is even less suitable really -- unless, of course, a priori reasoning is somehow helpful with Occultism. What he does is "smashes" all his previous preconceptions, and slowly works his way to his newfound conclusions, which begin with the proposition "Cogito ergo sum". To Descartes, there is far more certainty within conclusions that can be rationalized that way. I have little to no knowledge of Occultism, so I cannot say which philosopher's work in general would be most helpful. Keep in mind though that Descartes does not question reality -- he questions the method of knowledge best suited to study it. The "malin genie" is an assumption he makes so as to test his method most thoroughly.

Well the problem is Descartes is even less suitable really -- unless, of course, a priori reasoning is somehow helpful with Occultism. What he does is "smashes" all his previous preconceptions, and slowly works his way to his newfound conclusions, which begin with the proposition "Cogito ergo sum". To Descartes, there is far more certainty within conclusions that can be rationalized that way. I have little to no knowledge of Occultism, so I cannot say which philosopher's work in general would be most helpful. Keep in mind though that Descartes does not question reality -- he questions the method of knowledge best suited to study it. The "malin genie" is an assumption he makes so as to test his method most thoroughly.

That's the point - while Berkeley is good to argue for occultism (as in "consider that reality might be a construct") by questioning, Descartes enters the merit of how to STUDY reality. Occultism isn't about questioning reality any more than physics is, it's but a way to explain it and, it is presumed, change it, much like any field. Well, a series of ways to explain it and so on.

Then again, Descartes can be applied that way to many fields. Oh well, philosophy isn't my forte.

That's the point - while Berkeley is good to argue for occultism (as in "consider that reality might be a construct") by questioning, Descartes enters the merit of how to STUDY reality. Occultism isn't about questioning reality any more than physics is, it's but a way to explain it and, it is presumed, change it, much like any field. Well, a series of ways to explain it and so on.

Then again, Descartes can be applied that way to many fields. Oh well, philosophy isn't my forte.
In which case I recommend you study Epistemology (theory of knowledge) more generally. :) Descartes is most certainly an admirable philosopher of this subclass, but it's best you study some others too to get a comprehensive view of it. Essentially, you have to justify why you think your form of epistemology is appropriate (your positive task) and prove why other forms are weaker (negative task).

In which case I recommend you study Epistemology (theory of knowledge) more generally. :) Descartes is most certainly an admirable philosopher of this subclass, but it's best you study some others too to get a comprehensive view of it. Essentially, you have to justify why you think your form of epistemology is appropriate (your positive task) and prove why other forms are weaker (negative task).

Oh, I don't intend to prove it's THE answer, I intend to prove it's AN answer. ;)

Well said.

~Satanic Reverend Medivh~
You took your Satanic name from a strategy computer game?

Oh, I don't intend to prove it's THE answer, I intend to prove it's AN answer. ;)
Then epistemology is the tool you need. :)

You took your Satanic name from a strategy computer game?
Welcome to the 21st century.

You took your Satanic name from a strategy computer game?

Trust me, kiddo, that's NOTHING compared to the "creative" weirdness of other stuff I've seen done in this field - and things that WORKED.

Now you can fully enjoy emo music, and wear eyeliner for shits and giggles, and other such things to grab the attention of sixteen year old girls who will now think you're "soooo deep / soooo random".

Kudos.

Now you can fully enjoy emo music, and wear eyeliner for shits and giggles, and other such things to grab the attention of sixteen year old girls who will now think you're "soooo deep / soooo random".

Kudos.

Ordinarily, I, a serious non-goth, non-rebel-teenager (I'm 25 and my parents are into santeria) occultist, would be offended at this remark.

But, then again, it's what the OP seems to intend to anyways, so, assuming the remark was specifically at the OP, no offense taken.

You took your Satanic name from a strategy computer game?

It was mine before that game series was released. I use it for privacy. It is dangerous to use your real name in this profession.

It was mine before that game series was released. I use it for privacy. It is dangerous to use your real name in this profession.

So you're but the victim of one of the most unfortunate coincidences ever? :p

Dear me.
Were all of your 7000 posts that bad? I feel sorry for the moderators.

*Chokes on trout
Have all of your 290odd posts been satanic related?


If you follow the links i need not waste my time.

Youre already wasting my time


If you dont follow the links, continue to embaress yourself with the dogma fed into your brain by tv shows.
*Me chokes again


Make your choice.
I have. I have chosen not to be a selfish me, me ,me attitude..and i dont call virgins whores...

*gasp* I'm not sure what to discuss in this thread since the OP doesn't say much to bring up any sort of discussion that would lead anywhere. Anyhow, so you're a satanist. Good job? Maybe I should make an "I am a Catholic" or "I am a student" thread and see if I get any reactions.

Dear me.
Were all of your 7000 posts that bad? I feel sorry for the moderators.

If you follow the links i need not waste my time.

If you dont follow the links, continue to embaress yourself with the dogma fed into your brain by tv shows.

Make your choice.

If you are the average satanist, I can tell your a lot like liberals. "Open your mind, but if you don't like my ideas, go die!"

If you are the average satanist, I can tell your a lot like liberals. "Open your mind, but if you don't like my ideas, go die!"

Which is still better than the average Christian: "God is merciful, but he sends to eternal torment those that don't believe in Him." and the average conservatives: "I'm pro-freedom, but dissent is unAmerican.".

See? I can stereotype too. I do not think that the OP has said anything meaningful, but prejudice won't contribute to the discussion.

Now, do you have something RELEVANT to say?

God is merciful on those who have proven themselves worthy for his forgiveness. Those who oppose him will get no sympathy. This is not a contradiction.

And I'm a fastidious conservative, and yes, we are pro freedom - you can say whatever you want about the government or the way things are run - that's your right, but that doesn't mean we'll agree with or support anything you say. Who ever said that freedom of speech involved others being completely accepting of what others have to say? Personally I don't use the term un-American or un-Australian, but I think that conservatives who do say that someone is un-American are pointing out that if your opposing anything in the way America runs the show, then your anti-freedom, because America is the embodiment of freedom. Again, this is not a contradiction - remember, "I don't agree with a word you said, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it".

*snip*

That was pretty close to spam. Contribute something meaningful to the discussion or kindly stop polluting.

snip

"America is the embodiment of freedom"? In one sense, I agree. The American ideal of freedom of religion, speech, assembly etc. is one of the greatest and brightest in the world, and I'm grateful to have been brought up in these principles.

However, most of the people who support recent developments in the erosion of civil liberties and the whole Iraqi fiasco (a DIVERSION from the war on terror, in fact) don't have this mindset. They're jingoistic - nationalists. Plain and simple. I'm fairly religious, myself, and I do believe in the ideals of my country, but this flag-waving rah-rah let's support the commander-in-chief no matter what he says or does is utter BS. I would go so far as to say that such sentiment is un-American in itself.

It was mine before that game series was released. I use it for privacy. It is dangerous to use your real name in this profession.

Realy why is that then?

However, most of the people who support recent developments in the erosion of civil liberties and the whole Iraqi fiasco (a DIVERSION from the war on terror, in fact) don't have this mindset. They're jingoistic - nationalists. Plain and simple. I'm fairly religious, myself, and I do believe in the ideals of my country, but this flag-waving rah-rah let's support the commander-in-chief no matter what he says or does is utter BS. I would go so far as to say that such sentiment is un-American in itself.

I find it sad that most people today seem to have forgotten where America came from. We are a nation formed by a minority of the population that was so enraged by a luxury tax we decided to start killing police in the streets.

God is merciful on those who have proven themselves worthy for his forgiveness. Those who oppose him will get no sympathy. This is not a contradiction.

Did, or did not Ghandi "prove himself worthy of His forgiveness" by getting a nation independent without bloodshed? Answer me.

type of religion which people join for emotional and not rational reasons.

That sounds like every single religion.

That sounds like every single religion.

Man you must know some simple minded religious people!

Tell me one religion that's beliefs are perfectly logical. Their is no emotion involved in them. You can't, unless you can call athiesm a religion.

Tell me one religion that's beliefs are perfectly logical. Their is no emotion involved in them. You can't, unless you can call athiesm a religion.

Ohhh let me see, Buddhism, Sikhi. Most of them really.

Define Logical for me.

Tell me one religion that's beliefs are perfectly logical. Their is no emotion involved in them. You can't, unless you can call athiesm a religion.

Even in that case, some atheists believe in their nothingness with a fervor that I failed to see in many religious people.

I recomend you all watch this:

http://loadingreadyrun.com/movies/door2door.mp4

"America is the embodiment of freedom"? In one sense, I agree. The American ideal of freedom of religion, speech, assembly etc. is one of the greatest and brightest in the world, and I'm grateful to have been brought up in these principles.


since when?

since when?

Try when the Constitution went into effect.

But wait, you're trying to sound cool. America has never had FREEDOM!! We're like Nazi Germany!! GRR I exposed the TRUTH!

Now, if you're actually talking about fervor about free speech, etc, then yes they have died down. Too many ordinary people are too willing to limit the first amendment. it does not mean free speech is not and has never been present in american life, because it most certainly has and is still alive.

God is merciful on those who have proven themselves worthy for his forgiveness.

WRONG
No one is "worthy" of god's forgivness
only those who beleive Jesus christ is their lord and savior and that he died on the cross to wipe away their sins can truly be "saved"

Yay 300 :D

WRONG
No one is "worthy" of god's forgivness
only those who beleive Jesus christ is their lord and savior and that he died on the cross to wipe away their sins can truly be "saved"

Yay 300 :D

You're either being sarcastic, or your interpretation of God is less perfect than me.

wait what? (I seem to be doing that a lot recently)

The Bible pretty much says it all:
Everyone is a Sinner and is not worthy of God's love.
God Loves you anyway
Repent your sins and follow Jesus and you're saved, even though you are unworthy.

wait what? (I seem to be doing that a lot recently)

The Bible pretty much says it all:
Everyone is a Sinner and is not worthy of God's love.
God Loves you anyway
Repent your sins and follow Jesus and you're saved, even though you are unworthy.

Read my previous post, it goes for you as well.

Satanism is just Neitzsche for the Hot Topic crowd.

neitzsche (or how his name is spelled) is much more interesting. and an "religion" that preaches egoism and you are your own god, but still need a "congregation" or some such? does not hold up for me, like some other poster said: lavey is a brilliant scam artist or some such, atleast crowley and other sources of occultism is more entertaining. I take to nihilistic attitude and bits and pieces here and there, from other philosophies (including satanism) and say: fuck it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism

http://www.dpjs.co.uk/magic.html

These are two sites that swayed me to the teachings of LaVey.

I recommend you remain open minded and browse through them to expand your horizons.

This thread is so we can debate about this sort of satanism, and whether it deserves the bad press it gets, whether it makes any sense ect.

I consider myself to be somewhat in satanism. From what I have read (this holds true for the original Bible as well) I feel it is incomplete, or that its philosophies don't offer a full spectrum.

My personal faith is an amalgam of different religions and philosophies, from Christianity to Daoism to some Neitzche, but I think it most closely resembles the teachings of Krishnamurti.

I am still reading his book, but I'd be willing to debate on the side of "Freedom" against the merits of Satanism.