NationStates Jolt Archive

This should be an interesting discussion.

Who wins if there is an all out war between the factions of Star Trek and the factions on Star Wars? (Star Wars can't use the force and Star Trek can't use its supernatural beings like the "Wormhole Aliens" AKA The Prophets.)

I say Star Trek wins it. While Star Wars has the Death Star, most of their technology is far behind Star Trek tech.

The Star Trek ships are faster than Star Wars ships. It was established in canon sources that the Milenium Falcon, fastest ship in SW universe, can only go a few times the speed of light. They say it can get across the galaxy in a short amount of time, but realize they are in a different galaxy which is obviously much smaller than the Milky Way given the numbers given. The USS Enterprise NX-01 can go 125c. The Intrepid and Sovereign class vessels go nearly 7,000c. That's much faster than anything in the Star Wars universe. The Borg also have transwarp which can put them in any spot in the galaxy in a very short amount of time.

The Death Star is very vulnerable against ST tech. The Death Star is not shielded and has serious design flaws. All the Federation has to to is send in Sisko and the Defiant in under cloak (a tech not present in SW). Once cloaked, the Defiant can just beam a few anti-matter mines right into the Death Star's unshielded reactor. The tiny USS Defiant with only 40 crew could destroy the heart of the Empire just like that. Oh yeah, did I mention that SW tech does not include transporters?

In fleet battles, Star Destroyers are vulnerable. The ST ships just have to concentrate fire on the exposed spherical shield generators and then fire on the bridge. A few quantum torpedoes and it is all over.

Tie fighters would be no issue either. They could easily overwhelm technology from Kirk or Archer's era. Kirk's Enterprise only had phaser banks. By TNG, the Enterprise and most ships (exluding Excelsior, Ambassador, Miranda, and Oberth class vessels) were equipped with phaser arrays. The phaser arrays can emit multiple beams on multiple targets simultaneously. Since the tie fighters aren't shielded, just a single low powered blast on each ship should do the trick. The Enterprise D or E could emit a dozen simultaneous phaser beams from any single array and get hits easily due to computer targetting. In a matter of seconds, all 72 tie fighters of a Star Destroyer would be gone. Once again, the tie fighters would only kill obsolete ships that predate Nebula and Galaxy class starships.

This is just with Federation Technology. I haven't even talked about the Cardassians, Dominion (Jem'Hadar, Founders, Vorta), Klingons, Romulans, Borg, or Species 8472. Any one of these factions could destroy the entire Galactic Empire and Rebelion.

This should be an interesting discussion.

Who wins if there is an all out war between the factions of Star Trek and the factions on Star Wars? (Star Wars can't use the force and Star Trek can't use its supernatural beings like the "Wormhole Aliens" AKA The Prophets.)

I say Star Trek wins it. While Star Wars has the Death Star, most of their technology is far behind Star Trek tech.

The Star Trek ships are faster than Star Wars ships. It was established in canon sources that the Milenium Falcon, fastest ship in SW universe, can only go a few times the speed of light. They say it can get across the galaxy in a short amount of time, but realize they are in a different galaxy which is obviously much smaller than the Milky Way given the numbers given. The USS Enterprise NX-01 can go 125c. The Intrepid and Sovereign class vessels go nearly 7,000c. That's much faster than anything in the Star Wars universe. The Borg also have transwarp which can put them in any spot in the galaxy in a very short amount of time.

The Death Star is very vulnerable against ST tech. The Death Star is not shielded and has serious design flaws. All the Federation has to to is send in Sisko and the Defiant in under cloak (a tech not present in SW). Once cloaked, the Defiant can just beam a few anti-matter mines right into the Death Star's unshielded reactor. The tiny USS Defiant with only 40 crew could destroy the heart of the Empire just like that. Oh yeah, did I mention that SW tech does not include transporters?

In fleet battles, Star Destroyers are vulnerable. The ST ships just have to concentrate fire on the exposed spherical shield generators and then fire on the bridge. A few quantum torpedoes and it is all over.

Tie fighters would be no issue either. They could easily overwhelm technology from Kirk or Archer's era. Kirk's Enterprise only had phaser banks. By TNG, the Enterprise and most ships (exluding Excelsior, Ambassador, Miranda, and Oberth class vessels) were equipped with phaser arrays. The phaser arrays can emit multiple beams on multiple targets simultaneously. Since the tie fighters aren't shielded, just a single low powered blast on each ship should do the trick. The Enterprise D or E could emit a dozen simultaneous phaser beams from any single array and get hits easily due to computer targetting. In a matter of seconds, all 72 tie fighters of a Star Destroyer would be gone. Once again, the tie fighters would only kill obsolete ships that predate Nebula and Galaxy class starships.

This is just with Federation Technology. I haven't even talked about the Cardassians, Dominion (Jem'Hadar, Founders, Vorta), Klingons, Romulans, Borg, or Species 8472. Any one of these factions could destroy the entire Galactic Empire and Rebelion.

You have just been nominated for Biggest NSG Nerd Award. ;)

You have just been nominated for Biggest NSG Nerd Award. ;)

Star Trek is no longer nerdy. It's on Spike TV, the only channel dedicated for men. Therefore it is now officially cool.:p

Dune tech. pwns all.

Just shoot a lasgun at the shields of the ships in either ST or SW, presto ship destroyed.

That nomination is seconded.

But at risk of getting labeled uber-nerd myself. The DS was shielded. It was, according to mentions in 4, built around taking on capital ships, not fighters. Which Star Drek has little or none of. A fighter was small enough to slip through said defenses. And they stated that in the warroom on Yavin.

I hate having a good memory for bullshit.

Dune tech. pwns all.

Just shoot a lasgun at the shields of the ships in either ST or SW, presto ship destroyed.

40K Tech > Dune Tech > SW Tech > ST Tech

It's been statistically proven that Star Wars technology is more powerful then Star Trek's. I forget where that site is, but it exists...

That nomination is seconded.

But at risk of getting labeled uber-nerd myself. The DS was shielded. It was, according to mentions in 4, built around taking on capital ships, not fighters. Which Star Drek has little or none of. A fighter was small enough to slip through said defenses. And they stated that in the warroom on Yavin.

I hate having a good memory for bullshit.

The DS never had its own shield. It just had a ground based shield projected from Endar that protected it while it was under construction.

Star Trek has fighters too. They were used heavily in the Dominion War. The fighters were in fact instrumental in splitting Cardassian lines during "Operation Return."

40K Tech > Dune Tech > SW Tech > ST Tech

It's been statistically proven that Star Wars technology is more powerful then Star Trek's. I forget where that site is, but it exists...

ST pwns SW. Star Trek ships just have to cloak and beam anti-matter aboard the Deathstar. It's all over after that.

40K Tech > Dune Tech > SW Tech > ST Tech


How about adding one more tech to make it even more controversial? :)

40K Tech > Dune Tech > SW Tech > LotR Tech > ST Tech

You are only talking about the Empire's technology, I'd say the Republic's has extra advantages. Besides, the Star Wars ships have many more weapons then the Trek ships do. Star Wars has many more fighters then Trek does and would swamp the Trek ships quickly. Not to mention SW ships being much larger and able to take more damage then Trek ones.

The Federation and the Empire decimate each other, then the Space Pirates appear out of nowhere and finish them off.

ST pwns SW. Star Trek ships just have to cloak and beam anti-matter aboard the Deathstar. It's all over after that.

Realizing that as long as the stations shields are up, they cannot do shit?

Okay, laser technology (Star Wars) has a 0% chance of penetrating the shield systems of Star Trek...enough said.

Okay, laser technology (Star Wars) has a 0% chance of penetrating the shield systems of Star Trek...enough said.

And that is because...

Realizing that as long as the stations shields are up, they cannot do shit?

There are no shields though. The only shields it ever had weren't on the ship. They were from moon on Endar. As soon as the Death Star leaves orbit, it is vulnerable to attack. Star Trek ships could also just beam anti-matter down to the shield generator on the surface and then beam the mines aboard the Death Star.

If the DS had shields, then how could the X-Wings just fly through the trenches in Episode IV? They did nothing to take shields down if they existed.

The fact is that the Empire doesn't deal with cloaking or transporter technology and the large mass of the DS against Rebel weapons should provide enough protection had it not been for the weaknesses in the design.

Star Trek ships would have no issue with the Death Star.

And that is because...

Lasers and Phasers are 2 seperate technologies. It is generally established that lasers are far weaker than phasers.

Okay, laser technology (Star Wars) has a 0% chance of penetrating the shield systems of Star Trek...enough said.

Somehow I find that to be wishful thinking...

According to the Star Trek Technical Manual, the phase shield systems resist all forms of laser...it's designed to resist phaser energy, which is vastly more devastating.

You are only talking about the Empire's technology, I'd say the Republic's has extra advantages. Besides, the Star Wars ships have many more weapons then the Trek ships do. Star Wars has many more fighters then Trek does and would swamp the Trek ships quickly. Not to mention SW ships being much larger and able to take more damage then Trek ones.

Given the fleets we saw in the Dominion War, the Federation at any time would have over 10,000 starships. The Klingons would have between 15,000 and 20,000. The Romulan fleet is likely smaller, but has more powerful ships. The Cardassian fleet itself is probably comparable to the Klingon fleet in size. The Dominion Fleet is much larger. All of these groups have replication technology so construction is done quite quickly (especially for the Dominion).

40K Tech > Dune Tech > SW Tech > ST Tech

Actually I would say dune military tech. is quite behind all of them.:( :(
The Holtzmann drive is far superior to any of the drives in SW or ST, as it folds space at a quantum level which allows the guild highliners to travel inbetween stars instantaneusly, if it weren't for the god damn spice dependency.....

Militarily Dune is behind, we got directed energy weapons(lasguns) but they are hardly used because of their reaction to holtzmann shields. Ballistic weapons are almost unknown, Fremen Maula pistols are the only thing that comes to mind. Most of Dune warfare involves swords, knives and other melee weapons.

We don't even have a planet-killer, the most powerful thing are atomics, which are 20th century.:(

Lasers and Phasers are 2 seperate technologies. It is generally established that lasers are far weaker than phasers.

Except, the wattage in SW lasers if exponentially greater than that of the phasers in ST.

Okay, laser technology (Star Wars) has a 0% chance of penetrating the shield systems of Star Trek...enough said.

All but a few Star Wars weapons use Blaster techology not laser technology, I'm pretty sure there is a difference. For one thing blaster bolts do not move at the speed of light.

The basic blaster technology of intensifying a beam of light into a deadly bolt is scalable, and largely the same despite the differences in weapon types and sizes. The interior mechanisms of a tiny hold-out blaster, a blaster pistol, a large blaster rifle, and a turbolaser cannon are based on the same theories and principles. A squeeze of a trigger emits volatile blaster gas into a conversion chamber, where it is excited by energy from the weapon's power source. The agitated gas is then funneled through the actuating blaster module, where it is processed into an intense particle beam. A prismatic crystal focuses the beam, and passes it through a refinement chamber which galvanizes the beam into its final bolt shaped like a cone, similar to the shape of the ballistic coefficient.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaster_%28Star_Wars%29

I forgot to mention that the Breen energy weapon could be fired. That would immediately drain all power from its target.

poor USS Defiant learned that the hard way. She was a tough little ship.:(

Given the fleets we saw in the Dominion War, the Federation at any time would have over 10,000 starships. The Klingons would have between 15,000 and 20,000. The Romulan fleet is likely smaller, but has more powerful ships. The Cardassian fleet itself is probably comparable to the Klingon fleet in size. The Dominion Fleet is much larger. All of these groups have replication technology so construction is done quite quickly (especially for the Dominion).

So the Trek ships would simply swamp the SW ones? Even if they have crappy tech they will overpower SW by sheer numbers? Somehow I don't think that will help.

http://www.bobafettmp.com/Temp/DieEnterprise.jpg

http://www.triton.nu/albums/pics/aw_jeez_not_this_shit_again.jpg

If you want to go by the rules that govern the universe as we know them and it:
-both sides lose the FTL
-SW ships are much slower because they are propelled by ion thrusters which are only used now for station keeping because they're so damn weak while trek ships use large impulse engines expelling fusion exhaust
-The plasma blasters of SW ships no longer function because the plasma expands in space like a puff of steam (they are not lasers!)
-SW warheads are only next-gen nukes while trek has anti-matter bombs
-the phasers of trek sadly no longer work because they are based on an imaginary particle (the nadion) but electron beams are being tinkered with today and powerful lasers do exist in trek
-neither side would have sheilds of any kind!
-the death star would never be able to generate enough power to destroy a planet and the "superlaser" isn't really a laser, it's a giant blaster so it has the same problem
-no SW ship would have enough power to fight because they all use a fictional exotic form of matter called hypermatter though I'm sure they could easily be adapted to use a different power source if they really wanted

So if the rules of the real world were applied trek would have the upper hand. If the rules of the real world are thrown out then the whole debate breaks down to each side screaming "I WIN!!1"

Except, the wattage in SW lasers if exponentially greater than that of the phasers in ST.

Irrelavant...compare the thickness of lead to the radiation it can withstand...

ST's shields far surpass that ratio.

Yawn... (http://www.st-v-sw.net/)

Overdone & tossed aside long ago over on Flare by better minds & analyses than to be found here.

I think the energy useage estimated for Star Wars puts it so far ahead of Star Trek, technology-wise that they are incomparable.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

That sums it up nicely.

According to the Star Trek Technical Manual, the phase shield systems resist all forms of laser...it's designed to resist phaser energy, which is vastly more devastating.
Incorrect.
Given the fleets we saw in the Dominion War, the Federation at any time would have over 10,000 starships. The Klingons would have between 15,000 and 20,000. The Romulan fleet is likely smaller, but has more powerful ships. The Cardassian fleet itself is probably comparable to the Klingon fleet in size. The Dominion Fleet is much larger. All of these groups have replication technology so construction is done quite quickly (especially for the Dominion).

Oh, please. The most vessels ever seen in any of the episodes is, like, a hundred, including roundabouts and fighters, and that was at major battles.

Militarily Dune is behind, we got directed energy weapons(lasguns) but they are hardly used because of their reaction to holtzmann shields. Ballistic weapons are almost unknown, Fremen Maula pistols are the only thing that comes to mind. Most of Dune warfare involves swords, knives and other melee weapons.

The books only really ground technology, and the SW/ST ships don't have Holtzmann drives as it is...

I hate to be the party-pooper, but there seems to be a disproportionate amount of nerds on NSG.

The books only really ground technology, and the SW/ST ships don't have Holtzmann drives as it is...

Uh, what?

Don't forget that when a Star Destroyer takes a hit, it's bridge doesn't explode for no reason.

Lasers and Phasers are 2 seperate technologies. It is generally established that lasers are far weaker than phasers.

A 500 megaton laser will deal just as much damage as a 500 megaton phaser. It just so happens that in order to achieve a 500 megaton laser, one would need to pour vast amounts of power into said weapon, as lasers are notoriously energy inefficient weapons.

However, as Star Wars turbolasers and blasters are particle weapons it doesn't really have any bearing on the discussion.

Anyway, give me a pulse pistol and a Command Carrier any day...

Oh, please. The most vessels ever seen in any of the episodes is, like, a hundred, including roundabouts and fighters, and that was at major battles.

O'Brien: "I'm picking something up....It's a large Dominion fleet, bearing 004 mark 009."
Sisko: "How large?"
O'Brien: "1254 ships."
Bashir: "They outnumber us two to one."

I think the energy useage estimated for Star Wars puts it so far ahead of Star Trek, technology-wise that they are incomparable.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

That sums it up nicely.

A Star Trek warp core produces far more power than any Star Wars power source.

It is established that Trek ships reach FTL through creating a warp bubble that warps space. The creation of such a bubble has been estimated by physicists to require 11 times the energy of the sun. When not at FTL, that warp core is being used to power phasers and other systems.

Give me a P90 and remote missile bus any day. If the rules of reality are to be applied then it would pwn both Wars and Trek because neither follows the realworld rules very well. If you want to go by RL laws and theories then a lot of tech goes out the window and what's left gives trek a slight advantage. But if all you're concerned about are flashy special effects, laser swords, and magic powers, then Wars is the pick of the litter.

Actually I would say dune military tech. is quite behind all of them.:( :(
The Holtzmann drive is far superior to any of the drives in SW or ST, as it folds space at a quantum level which allows the guild highliners to travel inbetween stars instantaneusly, if it weren't for the god damn spice dependency.....

Militarily Dune is behind, we got directed energy weapons(lasguns) but they are hardly used because of their reaction to holtzmann shields. Ballistic weapons are almost unknown, Fremen Maula pistols are the only thing that comes to mind. Most of Dune warfare involves swords, knives and other melee weapons.

We don't even have a planet-killer, the most powerful thing are atomics, which are 20th century.:(

Actually, Dune does have a planet-killer. The Stone-Burner nuclear device has two settings - one blinds everyone in a certain range (as it's used in Dune Messiah), the other destroys the planet.

But otherwise, Star Trek wins, period. They can fire weapons while travelling FTL. (And no, I'm not just talking SFB. They showed in several episodes that FTL ships can fire torpedoes.)

A Star Trek warp core produces far more power than any Star Wars power source.

It is established that Trek ships reach FTL through creating a warp bubble that warps space. The creation of such a bubble has been estimated by physicists to require 11 times the energy of the sun. When not at FTL, that warp core is being used to power phasers and other systems.

In a straight-up fight, the Empire squashes the Federation like a bug. Even with its numerical advantage removed, the Empire would still squash the Federation like a bug. Accept it.

Perhaps you should listen to that website. It knows its business. :)

O'Brien: "I'm picking something up....It's a large Dominion fleet, bearing 004 mark 009."
Sisko: "How large?"
O'Brien: "1254 ships."
Bashir: "They outnumber us two to one."
Yep, that's during Operation Return when they are heading back to retake DS9.

Bashir and O'Brien then go on to quote "The Charge of the Light Brigade."

O'Brien "Cannon to the right of them, Cannon to the left of them, Cannon in front of them, Volley'd and thunder'd."
Bashir "Storm'd at with shot and shell, Boldly they rode and well, Into the Jaws of Death, Into the mouth of hell... Rode the six hundred."
Garak "How does that poem end, Chief?"
O'Brien"You don't want to know."

Perhaps you should listen to that website. It knows its business. :)

That website is fundamentally flawed. They base empire ship speed based on "traveling halfway across the galaxy in a matter of hours." They fail to note that it is a different galaxy that is obviously much smaller than the Milky Way.

Besides in Episode IV, they have a canon comment that the Millenium Falcon, fastest ship in SW, can only go "point-five past lightspeed". Cochrane's ship can almost outrun her.

As for most SW numbers, they are pretty flawed. George Lucas has admitted that he knowns nothing about physics and didn't hire advisors for any of it. Star Trek is at least feasible in its technology. We have seen many inventions born from Star Trek.

Actually, Dune does have a planet-killer. The Stone-Burner nuclear device has two settings - one blinds everyone in a certain range (as it's used in Dune Messiah), the other destroys the planet.

I thought Stone-burners were just a variant of basic atomics, much like neutron bombs. I think it is said in one of the books that the "house of washington" used a stoneburner.

Update: I just remembered, if it had enough power put into it, a stoneburner will eat its way to the planet's core, destroying it....

http://www.triton.nu/albums/pics/aw_jeez_not_this_shit_again.jpg

I like his hair.
Yawn... (http://www.st-v-sw.net/)

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

I'd like to see a fight between the adminds of those sites...
I hate to be the party-pooper, but there seems to be a disproportionate amount of nerds on NSG.
*gasp* NERDS ON THE INTERNETS?! :rolleyes:
Uh, what?
Wow, my grammar was shockingly bad... that's never happened to me before...
I was trying to say, the books don't really go into space battles, and the ships in SW and ST don't have Holtzmann Drives, so they could use lasguns on them.

O'Brien: "I'm picking something up....It's a large Dominion fleet, bearing 004 mark 009."
Sisko: "How large?"
O'Brien: "1254 ships."
Bashir: "They outnumber us two to one."
3000 ships. No, 1800. That still most likely includes the roundabouts and fighters.

EVE Online tech > all else

It's that simple. All posts after this are meaningless; this discussion has ended.

The fact of the matter here is that it's just pointless to speculate. You can mentally masturbate humongozhorlord battles until your pants crack when you walk from all the caked-in jizz, but you are dealing with two entirely different sets of fundamental operating systems. Inevitably, one realizes that there is simply no point to this becasue there is no "winner" & never will be. You can already see how the biases are formed; if I wanted to, I could very easily claim that "A Shadow vessel could just shimmer in & easily decimate both sides with no chance of taking damage," which has a logical basis in ability but would be totally pointless.

A nice actual analysis is fun to work with, but this is the usual cock in the usual vigorously moving hand.

I like his hair.



3000 ships. No, 1800. That still most likely includes the roundabouts and fighters.

The 1254 Dominion ships in that fleet were all starships. There was not a single fighter present. The smallest ships present were Jem'Hadar Attack Ships.

There were numerous discussions on the show between Sisko, Ross, and Martok discussing fleet sizes. Given the numbers given, the Federation fleet before the war was over 10,000 starships.

Gowron and Martok had a discussion during the war which indicated the Klingon fleet was around 15,000. This was near the end of the war too. The Klingon Empire was in continuous war for 4 years at this point. (Klingon-Cardassian War, Federation-Klingon War, and then Dominion War) Just imagine their fleet before the war.

That's it.

Enough.

Cool it, tigers.

I'm going to use the Doomsday Device on this one:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=390531

Read it and weep, fanboys.

I'd like to see a fight between the adminds of those sites...I actually know both those people. They actually have some good old-fashioned debates of mutual respect.
3000 ships. No, 1800. That still most likely includes the roundabouts and fighters.Runabouts. A roundabout is also know as a traffic circle, & as infuriating as they are to enemy & ally alike, actually serve no useful space-based tactical purpose.

Wow, my grammar was shockingly bad... that's never happened to me before...
I was trying to say, the books don't really go into space battles, and the ships in SW and ST don't have Holtzmann Drives, so they could use lasguns on them.

That's because there really is no space warfare in Dune, as the only faction possessing holtzmann drive tech. is the spacing guild, which is neutral.

And the reason I said lasguns could pwn ST and SW ships is because of the holtzmann-lasgun reaction....thanks.:p

They say it can get across the galaxy in a short amount of time, but realize they are in a different galaxy which is obviously much smaller than the Milky Way given the numbers given.

Judging from the maps available, it appeared to be a galaxy of Sb type. According to some sources, the Galaxy was 120,000 light years across, or 37,000 Parsecs (a parsec is 3.258 light years) across.

The main disk of the Milky Way Galaxy is about 80,000 to 100,000 light years in diameter, about 250-300 thousand light years in circumference, and outside the Galactic core, about 1,000 light years in thickness. It is composed of 200 to 400 billion stars [1]. As a guide to the relative physical scale of the Milky Way, if the galaxy were reduced to 130 km (80 mi) in diameter, the solar system would be a mere 2 mm (0.08 in) in width. The Galactic Halo extends out to 250,000 to 400,000 light years in diameter. As detailed in the Structure section below, new discoveries indicate that the disk extends much farther than previously thought.

So, the SW galaxy is most likely bigger, or is at least the same size. They have about the same number of stars (400 billion)

So, the SW galaxy is most likely bigger, or is at least the same size. They have about the same number of stars (400 billion)

Then George Lucas is an idiot because the Milenium Falcon at 1.5c is the fastest ship in the galaxy. It would spend 2 years just getting from Sol to the nearest star.

That website is fundamentally flawed. They base empire ship speed based on "traveling halfway across the galaxy in a matter of hours." They fail to note that it is a different galaxy that is obviously much smaller than the Milky Way.

Besides in Episode IV, they have a canon comment that the Millenium Falcon, fastest ship in SW, can only go "point-five past lightspeed". Cochrane's ship can almost outrun her.

As for most SW numbers, they are pretty flawed. George Lucas has admitted that he knowns nothing about physics and didn't hire advisors for any of it. Star Trek is at least feasible in its technology. We have seen many inventions born from Star Trek.

Star Trek technology was feasible 30 years ago. They've since gone into the realm of near-fantasy.

that .5 has no meaning if they don't gauge it against something. So it is .5 what? For all you know, that number may be the equivelant of a top warp number. They never say. You really can't compare velocity measurements as they never give any sort of measurable scale in SW.

Then George Lucas is an idiot because the Milenium Falcon at 1.5c is the fastest ship in the galaxy. It would spend 2 years just getting from Sol to the nearest star.

Yeah, everyone disregards the "1.5 past lightspeed" comment. And Lucas never said he was a physicist.


Alright guys, let's get down to the meat of the matter: which was better, the Star Wars (original trilogy, of course) or Star Trek (which series is up to the Trekkies)?

Star Trek technology was feasible 30 years ago. They've since gone into the realm of near-fantasy.

that .5 has no meaning if they don't gauge it against something. So it is .5 what? For all you know, that number may be the equivelant of a top warp number. They never say. You really can't compare velocity measurements as they never give any sort of measurable scale in SW.

Han Solo says ".5 past light speed" in A New Hope. Everyone disregards the comment.

Alright guys, let's get down to the meat of the matter: which was better, the Star Wars (original trilogy, of course) or Star Trek (which series is up to the Trekkies)?

Dune is better than both IMO, especially seeing as how almost all of SW was inspired by, if not copied from Dune.

Lasers and Phasers are 2 seperate technologies. It is generally established that lasers are far weaker than phasers.

Technically speaking, if it was a laser being used in SW, you'd never have seen it. Or the energy bolt. Also, if memory serves, turbolaser batteries were being used to totally annihilate large nickel ferrous asteroids. Which phaser arrays seemed to have problems dealing with in ST canon. Also, one must not forget Base Delta Zero operations, wherein all life and resources on a planetary object is rendered completely destroyed. This would include boiling the oceans and slagging the planetary surface to the point where all mines and hardened bunkers are destroyed.

Accordingly, 3 destroyers are used, to have total, simultaneous coverage, and the planet is generally turned into a molten ball within the space of a few hours. ST ships generally do not have this kind of firepower.

And the way things are set up, it would only be fair to have Empire capital ships outfitted with rebel fighter wings in this match which are generally shielded.

Also, in regards to speed and distance. Two different technology sets, but several matters of contention. First off, it is seen that after escaping from Hoth, the rebel fleet actually LEAVES the galaxy. To overcome the kind of gravitic pull of a whole galaxy, not to mention traveling to a distance where you could see the entirety of it through a normal viewing window indicates the distance travelled to be at least the entire span of the galaxy from rim to their current location.

Voyager had an estimated travel time of over a century for a quadrant of a galaxy.

Who is faster again?

Next up, not as glamorous, but very important. Systems redundancy. ST ships generally had consoles that exploded in the faces of key personel, like coms officers, weapons officers and engineering chiefs when someone threw a spitball at the shields.

SW ships had somewhat more robust systems. Even when the SSD smacked into the DS, we didn't see much in the way of exploding consoles and such.

Ground forces. Although not prevalent in the original trilogy, SW did have combat capable assassin droids which were considerably more durable, better equipped and dangerous than ordinairy human soldiers. There is also a full range of ground combat vehicles including armored cavalry, artillery and mobile air support.

Star Trek has....the redshirt. But to be fair, redshirts and stormtroopers are roughly about the same in useability. Although it appears that entrenched stormtroopers have the advantage over entrenched redshirts since stormtroopers benefit from having the ability to emplace and use heavy weapons.

STAR TREK FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TOS tech would lose to SW
TNG (early) would beat SW
TNG (late) would crush SW
DS9 would frappe SW as a low-fat beverage
VOY...uh never watched it casue it sucked
ENT would lose to SW
:D
Call me a Geek PLEASE
its an ego boost thing

The Holtzmann drive is far superior to any of the drives in SW or ST, as it folds space at a quantum level which allows the guild highliners to travel inbetween stars instantaneusly, if it weren't for the god damn spice dependency.....

Wasn't there some new kind of FTL drive or navigation system developed during the long drought when all the great worms died out?


Most of Dune warfare involves swords, knives and other melee weapons.


I seem to remember the Emperor's personal guard having bigass guns.

IDF, you need to go and watch Star Wars 4 again. They mention in th emovie that the station has shieldsthey mention it again in flight when the buffeting they start taking is a reaction of the fighters going through the shields.

I seem to remember the Emperor's personal guard having bigass guns.

Yea, come to think of it, the military police on Poritrin used crystalline projectile firing pistol weapons(not unlike halo's needler which probably isn't a coincidence) during the slave revolt. Also Baron Vlad Harkonnen's Sardauker troops used old-fashioned artillery against Leto, but that was because Leto's shields had been disabled, kind of a special case. But Holtzmann shields rendered most projectile weapons useless, the only thing that could defeat them were slow-moving knives and the like, and of course lasguns but that would kill the attacker as well as the attacked.

Dune is better than both IMO, especially seeing as how almost all of SW was inspired by, if not copied from Dune.
True. Dune is awesome. I'd give SW the silver, though. I choose to see it as homage, not plagiarism. ;)

They fail to note that it is a different galaxy that is obviously much smaller than the Milky Way.

And the basis of this argument is?

Star Trek is at least feasible in its technology. We have seen many inventions born from Star Trek.

I have yet to see teleporters, phasers, shields, cloaking devices, universal translators, cybernetic hive minds, starships, antimatter devices, warp drives, sentient AIs and other assorted materials mentioned.

Face it. ST tech is about as feasible as SW tech. Which is to say, not very.

Gawd, you're all nurdz!!!!!111

LIGHTSABER! Star Wars! Tee hee! :eek:

Han Solo says ".5 past light speed" in A New Hope. Everyone disregards the comment.

I repeat, unless you know what that nuimber signifies, then you have no way of gauging how fast his .5 is. Yes I know what he said, but he never says what kind of measurement that is.

And remember too. We are talking different methods of travel. Jumps to an alternate dimension vs. warping space around your ship. So that .5 past lightspeed could very well be talking about his speed in hyperspace where the ultimate number for lightspeed could be much higher than the one in our universe.

Yea, come to think of it, the military police on Poritrin used crystalline projectile firing pistol weapons(not unlike halo's needler which probably isn't a coincidence) during the slave revolt. Also Baron Vlad Harkonnen's Sardauker troops used old-fashioned artillery against Leto, but that was because Leto's shields had been disabled, kind of a special case. But Holtzmann shields rendered most projectile weapons useless, the only thing that could defeat them were slow-moving knives and the like, and of course lasguns but that would kill the attacker as well as the attacked.

You're also forgetting a specialty of the Freemen. The Dune worms. Bigger than any Harkonnen assault vehicle and able to crush anything in it's way. But then again, it's not quite a weapon =p

Although it's kind of funny how they never simply went with subsonic ammo for anti-personel use. Fast enough to still kill, but not a lot faster than a quick hand with a knife.

You're also forgetting a specialty of the Freemen. The Dune worms. Bigger than any Harkonnen assault vehicle and able to crush anything in it's way. But then again, it's not quite a weapon =p

Although it's kind of funny how they never simply went with subsonic ammo for anti-personel use.

I thought, going by descriptions of personal shields in Dune, that even a thrown knife would be too fast to get past the shields. A bullet slow enough to get through a field would more than likely be visible enough to actually step aside from.

I thought, going by descriptions of personal shields in Dune, that even a thrown knife would be too fast to get past the shields. A bullet slow enough to get through a field would more than likely be visible enough to actually step aside from.

Yup, you had move real slow to get a daggar through those things, which is what was so cool about arrakis-no shields they drove the worms batshit insane.

Hmm, Wiki says 6-10 cm. a second is the normal speed limit for personal shields, but ship-shields are much slower.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holtzman_effect#Holtzman_Shield

I repeat, unless you know what that nuimber signifies, then you have no way of gauging how fast his .5 is. Yes I know what he said, but he never says what kind of measurement that is.

And remember too. We are talking different methods of travel. Jumps to an alternate dimension vs. warping space around your ship. So that .5 past lightspeed could very well be talking about his speed in hyperspace where the ultimate number for lightspeed could be much higher than the one in our universe.

Good point. It also seems that the higher the number is, the slower the vessel is:

0.5 (Millennium Falcon), ~1 (X-wings), 1-2 (capital ships like Star Destroyers), 3 (Death Star), 4 (bulk transports, Advanced TIEs).

I remember that from when I owned copies of the first RPG books. They never got technical about SW tech in those, did they? Though I do remember some great design theories about lightsaber construction.

New Xero Seven is right you know, we are a buncha nerds.

Yawn... (http://www.st-v-sw.net/)

Overdone & tossed aside long ago over on Flare by better minds & analyses than to be found here.

Really the only thing sadder than a rehash of something like this is someone 'yawning' it, and the only thing sadder than that is yawning it by insisting that it was done better somewhere else, difinitevly. I mean yikes. It's a distraction, so what? People argue if the 84 Bears could beat the 66 Pakers, Superman could beat whoever, it's just a distraction, you're not into it or feel it's been settled for you? Move on to something else. What do you care what people do with their time. In short, all you haters out there, lighten up. I don't like this particular arguement, but all that means is that I don't have it.

I just watch this movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNxhrPaaCA4) about it instead.

I voted for Star Wars. Why? Well, if this duel were to take place in reality, Star Trek would probably win. However, Most likely this encounter would be occuring in a movie or video game. In which case Star Wars would definitely win. Star Wars is not only the most popular, but it is also the apparent underdog of the duel, further embettering it's chances of achieveing victory in the writers room. The main characters, aliens, plantets, sets, cities, and CG design are all far superior in Star Wars. George Lucas' bluescreen phantasms would tear through the carboard world of Star Trek.

Plus physically, the actors of Star Wars would be able to kick the arses of the actors of Star Trek (with a team like Ford and Prowse!), as likewise would the fans and the characters, if it came to fisty-cuffs. Finally, Star Wars would win purely out of coolness, and because I say so, Star Trek lacks both of these critical factors. Economically, producers have much more money in pleasing Star Wars fans than in pleasing Star Trek fans. All in all, whilst Star Trek possibly could beat Star Wars, it will never happen in this reality. :p

However, Star Quest would definitely have a fair chance in taking on Star Wars...

Three words:

Infinite. Improbability. Drive. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improbability_drive)

HHGTTG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_To_The_Galaxy) FTW!

This should be an interesting discussion.

Who wins if there is an all out war between the factions of Star Trek and the factions on Star Wars? (Star Wars can't use the force and Star Trek can't use its supernatural beings like the "Wormhole Aliens" AKA The Prophets.)

I say Star Trek wins it. While Star Wars has the Death Star, most of their technology is far behind Star Trek tech.

The Star Trek ships are faster than Star Wars ships. It was established in canon sources that the Milenium Falcon, fastest ship in SW universe, can only go a few times the speed of light. They say it can get across the galaxy in a short amount of time, but realize they are in a different galaxy which is obviously much smaller than the Milky Way given the numbers given. The USS Enterprise NX-01 can go 125c. The Intrepid and Sovereign class vessels go nearly 7,000c. That's much faster than anything in the Star Wars universe. The Borg also have transwarp which can put them in any spot in the galaxy in a very short amount of time.

The Death Star is very vulnerable against ST tech. The Death Star is not shielded and has serious design flaws. All the Federation has to to is send in Sisko and the Defiant in under cloak (a tech not present in SW). Once cloaked, the Defiant can just beam a few anti-matter mines right into the Death Star's unshielded reactor. The tiny USS Defiant with only 40 crew could destroy the heart of the Empire just like that. Oh yeah, did I mention that SW tech does not include transporters?

In fleet battles, Star Destroyers are vulnerable. The ST ships just have to concentrate fire on the exposed spherical shield generators and then fire on the bridge. A few quantum torpedoes and it is all over.

Tie fighters would be no issue either. They could easily overwhelm technology from Kirk or Archer's era. Kirk's Enterprise only had phaser banks. By TNG, the Enterprise and most ships (exluding Excelsior, Ambassador, Miranda, and Oberth class vessels) were equipped with phaser arrays. The phaser arrays can emit multiple beams on multiple targets simultaneously. Since the tie fighters aren't shielded, just a single low powered blast on each ship should do the trick. The Enterprise D or E could emit a dozen simultaneous phaser beams from any single array and get hits easily due to computer targetting. In a matter of seconds, all 72 tie fighters of a Star Destroyer would be gone. Once again, the tie fighters would only kill obsolete ships that predate Nebula and Galaxy class starships.

This is just with Federation Technology. I haven't even talked about the Cardassians, Dominion (Jem'Hadar, Founders, Vorta), Klingons, Romulans, Borg, or Species 8472. Any one of these factions could destroy the entire Galactic Empire and Rebelion.

When I read this...i pictured you as a 40 year old, fat, disgusting male...who has no life, spends his free time sitting on his computer, who has no friends...have you even kissed a girl???...for some1 to know so much about a thing not even real..is disgusting...you have an obsession, go get a life...

Star Trek battle scenes were generally very technical and short affairs consisting of "Lock phasers on target", "Fire", and "Our phasers have had no effect, captain", followed by twenty minutes of diplomatic intrigue/romance/comedic hijincks.

Star Wars played out like a WW2 aerial battle with shots flying everywhere, ships whizzing around each other at blinding speed and really big explosions.

Who would win in a battle? Who cares. Star Wars battles are a lot more entertaining to watch.

When I read this...i pictured you as a 40 year old, fat, disgusting male...who has no life, spends his free time sitting on his computer, who has no friends...have you even kissed a girl???...for some1 to know so much about a thing not even real..is disgusting...you have an obsession, go get a life...

stereotype, much?

I thought, going by descriptions of personal shields in Dune, that even a thrown knife would be too fast to get past the shields. A bullet slow enough to get through a field would more than likely be visible enough to actually step aside from.

Huh? That means that in order to get past the shield, you can't stab or thrust or do any of the normal things you do with knives when trying to kill someone. The only way it'd work then is if you knocked the dude to the ground and slowly ventilated him.

What about dropping large heavy objects on them? Can't the shields be overloaded somehow?

I'm pretty sure both DSs were shielded. The shield projected from Endor to the DSII was just a temporary measure, since its own shield was presumably not functional as it was still being constructed, after all.

When I read this...i pictured you as a 40 year old, fat, disgusting male...who has no life, spends his free time sitting on his computer, who has no friends...have you even kissed a girl???...for some1 to know so much about a thing not even real..is disgusting...you have an obsession, go get a life...

Yet you spend your time on an internet forum reading post made by him.

Pot calling kettle much?

On Topic: Star Trek would own, Kirk would have had Leia out of that white dress within 45 mins and not take 3 films like Solo.

You have just been nominated for Biggest NSG Nerd Award. ;)

He hasnt been nominated...he is the undisputed biggest nerd

Yet you spend your time on an internet forum reading post made by him.

Pot calling kettle much?

On Topic: Star Trek would own, Kirk would have had Leia out of that white dress within 45 mins and not take 3 films like Solo.
LOL
Incidentally, yesterday was Carrie Fisher's birthday.

Huh? That means that in order to get past the shield, you can't stab or thrust or do any of the normal things you do with knives when trying to kill someone. The only way it'd work then is if you knocked the dude to the ground and slowly ventilated him.


6-10 cm. per second is the speed at which most personal shields will be penetrated, still fast enough for a sharp knife to break human skin. A bullet which goes say 100 cm. a second, will be repelled.

Star Trek battle scenes were generally very technical and short affairs consisting of "Lock phasers on target", "Fire", and "Our phasers have had no effect, captain", followed by twenty minutes of diplomatic intrigue/romance/comedic hijincks.

Star Wars played out like a WW2 aerial battle with shots flying everywhere, ships whizzing around each other at blinding speed and really big explosions.

Who would win in a battle? Who cares. Star Wars battles are a lot more entertaining to watch.
Exactly, this is why any sane screenwriter would have them win in any concievable concept submission to a production studio.

Yet you spend your time on an internet forum reading post made by him.

Pot calling kettle much?

On Topic: Star Trek would own, Kirk would have had Leia out of that white dress within 45 mins and not take 3 films like Solo.

wow...i just read a post.. i spend my time online, a college student couldnt live without a comp. and the internet, this is something extra i do, other then spending time wqith my girlfriend and friends, and studying. But to see some1 that obsessed with something so stupid, upsets me....and i thought it was ridiculous some1 would even think about this...these shows are things that little kids like, and fantasize about..but if ur a grown man...i can see an interest in it...but not this obsession, he truly has an interesting mind to be able to actually put such a scenario together, use your mind to actually help ppl...

Exactly, this is why any sane screenwriter would have them win in any concievable concept submission to a production studio.

Seriously, Watch the movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNxhrPaaCA4)...


...I try to entertain you people...

wow...i just read a post.. i spend my time online, a college student couldnt live without a comp. and the internet, this is something extra i do, other then spending time wqith my girlfriend and friends, and studying. But to see some1 that obsessed with something so stupid, upsets me....and i thought it was ridiculous some1 would even think about this...these shows are things that little kids like, and fantasize about..but if ur a grown man...i can see an interest in it...but not this obsession, he truly has an interesting mind to be able to actually put such a scenario together, use your mind to actually help ppl...



If it upsets you that we enjoy this stuff, then leave. No one is forcing you to read this.

Seriously, Watch the movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNxhrPaaCA4)...


...I try to entertain you people...

I watched it, trying not to be too nerdy but it was fucking cool. The Enterprise lost but I'll not hold that against it.

wow...i just read a post.. i spend my time online, a college student couldnt live without a comp. and the internet, this is something extra i do, other then spending time wqith my girlfriend and friends, and studying. But to see some1 that obsessed with something so stupid, upsets me....and i thought it was ridiculous some1 would even think about this...these shows are things that little kids like, and fantasize about..but if ur a grown man...i can see an interest in it...but not this obsession, he truly has an interesting mind to be able to actually put such a scenario together, use your mind to actually help ppl...

You aren't winning any friends with that you know. No one is "obsessing" about either series. This is a light mildly amusing discussion about which series would beat the other. We are having fun. Here, here is fifty cents. go buy a sense of humor already.
:rolleyes:

Using abbreviations like "ppl" and "ur" is something that kids do.

If it upsets you that we enjoy this stuff, then leave. No one is forcing you to read this.

u know what i lie...i made a fake profile so that my mom wouldnt think it was mine that i was just looking at others..i am a 12 year old kid living in pennsylvania, my profile and the thing i wrotr about myself is what i plan on doing..i wantr to go to the university of michigan and be a teacher. But when i look at you people..i know what i dont want to be, and im trying to get you all to realize for some1 to know so much about this is pathetic, seriously, i see it... and im this young

wow...i just read a post.. i spend my time online, a college student couldnt live without a comp. and the internet, this is something extra i do, other then spending time wqith my girlfriend and friends, and studying. But to see some1 that obsessed with something so stupid, upsets me....and i thought it was ridiculous some1 would even think about this...these shows are things that little kids like, and fantasize about..but if ur a grown man...i can see an interest in it...but not this obsession, he truly has an interesting mind to be able to actually put such a scenario together, use your mind to actually help ppl...
Adults came up with those shows, slugger.

Some people have this thing, we'll call it an imagination. Sometimes they use it to idle the time away. Suprisingly, when you have one of these 'imaginations' it actually takes suprisingly little effort to excercise it.

What's truly sad is someone so obsessed with how other people spend thier that they spend thier time deriding them. Seriously, go call your girlfriend, beat off to how cool you are or whatever, or get an imagination. Again, not my favorite arguement or way to spend my time but it certainly doesn't give me the right to crap on how other people want to spend thiers. Get over yourself, dude.

But when i look at you people..i know what i dont want to be, and im trying to get you all to realize for some1 to know so much about this is pathetic, seriously, i see it... and im this young

Yeah, because being someone who enjoys kicking back, blowing off a little steam and talking about silly subjects is so horrible. The posters are having fun. You should try it sometime.

Enough kid. if you think this thread is so damned bad, then exit it and don't read. No one is forcing you to stay in here.

Oh, and while all those little verbal shortcuts are handy when texting someone, computers have full qwerty keyboards. Use it. Capiche?

u know what i lie...i made a fake profile so that my mom wouldnt think it was mine that i was just looking at others..i am a 12 year old kid living in pennsylvania, my profile and the thing i wrotr about myself is what i plan on doing..i wantr to go to the university of michigan and be a teacher. But when i look at you people..i know what i dont want to be, and im trying to get you all to realize for some1 to know so much about this is pathetic, seriously, i see it... and im this young

Someone lying about their age on the internet? Never!! I won't believe it.

I know a lot about star trek and I know a lot about politics, which do you think I feel I wasted my time with?

u know what i lie...i made a fake profile so that my mom wouldnt think it was mine that i was just looking at others..i am a 12 year old kid living in pennsylvania, my profile and the thing i wrotr about myself is what i plan on doing..i wantr to go to the university of michigan and be a teacher. But when i look at you people..i know what i dont want to be, and im trying to get you all to realize for some1 to know so much about this is pathetic, seriously, i see it... and im this young
I hate people... who... type... like... this. It's so fricking annoying.

u know what i lie...i made a fake profile so that my mom wouldnt think it was mine that i was just looking at others..i am a 12 year old kid living in pennsylvania, my profile and the thing i wrotr about myself is what i plan on doing..i wantr to go to the university of michigan and be a teacher. But when i look at you people..i know what i dont want to be, and im trying to get you all to realize for some1 to know so much about this is pathetic, seriously, i see it... and im this young

So I am being patronized for being nerdy by a 12-year-old kid who pretends to be a successful U of M educated teacher on the internet......

This proves it, there is no god

Someone lying about their age on the internet? Never!! I won't believe it.

I know a lot about star trek and I know a lot about politics, which do you think I feel I wasted my time with?


The politics. Definitely the politics.:D

The politics. Definitely the politics.:D

Damn right.

ST has the matter transporter. That would give their forces an advantage in planet-based combat - instant transport and mobility. No supply lines.

ST has the matter transporter. That would give their forces an advantage in planet-based combat - instant transport and mobility. No supply lines.

They don't work in the presence of shields, dense interfering matter and just plain old bad weather. =p

They don't work in the presence of shields, dense interfering matter and just plain old bad weather. =p

So you couldn't remove a politicians brain from his/her skull.:p

What brain?

Hmmm, good point.

SW

The Yuuzhan Vong would totally pwn the people of the Star Trek universe.

;)

Seriously, Watch the movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNxhrPaaCA4)...


...I try to entertain you people...

Color me entertained.

That was cool.

So, the SW galaxy is most likely bigger, or is at least the same size. They have about the same number of stars (400 billion)

Considering it would take Voyager something on the order of 80 years to go from the Delta to Alpha Quadrants, it really makes me suspicious about the suposed great speed of Trek ships. SW galaxy is approximately the same size and SW ships can cross entire galaxy in, uh, much quicker time! :D

Babylon 5 pwns them both.:D

Color me entertained.

That was cool.

Yayness!

How about we base the merits of the series on the best actor from each?

Sir Alec Guinness, CH, CBE vs. Patrick Stewart, OBE

Unless anyone disagrees with my assessment of the two best actors.

Yeah, everyone disregards the "1.5 past lightspeed" comment. And Lucas never said he was a physicist.


Alright guys, let's get down to the meat of the matter: which was better, the Star Wars (original trilogy, of course) or Star Trek (which series is up to the Trekkies)?

DS9, naturally. Not even open to debate.

Between those two?

As bad-ass as Vader is, Gul Dukat is the type of villain who you want to slowly murder with a dull spoon.

1-0 Trek.

Luke Skywalker as opposed to... Bashir? Hmm. Well, Bashir isn't a whiney little bastard so...

2-0 Trek.

Obi-Wan-Kenobi as opposed to Dax. That's a tough one. Obi-Wan is teh rox0rs, but Dax is Sisko's old mentor in a hot female body. We'll call this one a tie, m'kay?

2-0 Trek.

As far as rank and file villains go, I don't think there can really be any comparison. Jem-Hadar FTW!

3-0 Trek.

Climatic Action Scene

This one's debatable, but really I liked the Federation assault on Cardassia Prime better than the Rebel assault on the Death Star.

4-0 Trek.

Morally dubious characters? As cool as Solo is, let's face it, Garak.

5-0 Trek.

Small furry creatures? I'll give this one to SW, as the Ewoks look like teddy bears, while the tribbles look like fluff balls.

5-1 Trek.

Use of holograms? Holosuites and their various uses *wink wink* totally pwn long range communication.

6-1 Trek

All I can think of at the moment.

wow that thread is so nerdy. i really like star trek but thats over board.

Went with Star Trek but come on now.....
The Vorlons From Babylon-5 would pwn them both :p

This should be an interesting discussion.

Who wins if there is an all out war between the factions of Star Trek and the factions on Star Wars? (Star Wars can't use the force and Star Trek can't use its supernatural beings like the "Wormhole Aliens" AKA The Prophets.)

I say Star Trek wins it. While Star Wars has the Death Star, most of their technology is far behind Star Trek tech.

The Star Trek ships are faster than Star Wars ships. It was established in canon sources that the Milenium Falcon, fastest ship in SW universe, can only go a few times the speed of light. They say it can get across the galaxy in a short amount of time, but realize they are in a different galaxy which is obviously much smaller than the Milky Way given the numbers given. The USS Enterprise NX-01 can go 125c. The Intrepid and Sovereign class vessels go nearly 7,000c. That's much faster than anything in the Star Wars universe. The Borg also have transwarp which can put them in any spot in the galaxy in a very short amount of time.

The Death Star is very vulnerable against ST tech. The Death Star is not shielded and has serious design flaws. All the Federation has to to is send in Sisko and the Defiant in under cloak (a tech not present in SW). Once cloaked, the Defiant can just beam a few anti-matter mines right into the Death Star's unshielded reactor. The tiny USS Defiant with only 40 crew could destroy the heart of the Empire just like that. Oh yeah, did I mention that SW tech does not include transporters?

In fleet battles, Star Destroyers are vulnerable. The ST ships just have to concentrate fire on the exposed spherical shield generators and then fire on the bridge. A few quantum torpedoes and it is all over.

Tie fighters would be no issue either. They could easily overwhelm technology from Kirk or Archer's era. Kirk's Enterprise only had phaser banks. By TNG, the Enterprise and most ships (exluding Excelsior, Ambassador, Miranda, and Oberth class vessels) were equipped with phaser arrays. The phaser arrays can emit multiple beams on multiple targets simultaneously. Since the tie fighters aren't shielded, just a single low powered blast on each ship should do the trick. The Enterprise D or E could emit a dozen simultaneous phaser beams from any single array and get hits easily due to computer targetting. In a matter of seconds, all 72 tie fighters of a Star Destroyer would be gone. Once again, the tie fighters would only kill obsolete ships that predate Nebula and Galaxy class starships.

This is just with Federation Technology. I haven't even talked about the Cardassians, Dominion (Jem'Hadar, Founders, Vorta), Klingons, Romulans, Borg, or Species 8472. Any one of these factions could destroy the entire Galactic Empire and Rebelion.

Unfortunately, leaving out the supernatural beings makes this argument pointless, for it is just pulling out an aspect (which, in both worlds, holds an important role). Why not exclude Ewoks and Chewbaccas while you're at it?

This argument has too major a flaw to be considered.

Please.

The more important question is, who would win in a fight, Freddy Kreuger or Wolverine?

Please.

The more important question is, who would win in a fight, Freddy Kreuger or Wolverine?

Wolverine.

Please.

The more important question is, who would win in a fight, Freddy Kreuger or Wolverine?

Woofie!!! Freddie couldnt even take Jason...But speaking of Jason...
Jason vs Spawn (tripple overtime in the least :D)

This should be an interesting discussion.

Who wins if there is an all out war between the factions of Star Trek and the factions on Star Wars? (Star Wars can't use the force and Star Trek can't use its supernatural beings like the "Wormhole Aliens" AKA The Prophets.)

I say Star Trek wins it. While Star Wars has the Death Star, most of their technology is far behind Star Trek tech.

The Star Trek ships are faster than Star Wars ships. It was established in canon sources that the Milenium Falcon, fastest ship in SW universe, can only go a few times the speed of light. They say it can get across the galaxy in a short amount of time, but realize they are in a different galaxy which is obviously much smaller than the Milky Way given the numbers given. The USS Enterprise NX-01 can go 125c. The Intrepid and Sovereign class vessels go nearly 7,000c. That's much faster than anything in the Star Wars universe. The Borg also have transwarp which can put them in any spot in the galaxy in a very short amount of time.

The Death Star is very vulnerable against ST tech. The Death Star is not shielded and has serious design flaws. All the Federation has to to is send in Sisko and the Defiant in under cloak (a tech not present in SW). Once cloaked, the Defiant can just beam a few anti-matter mines right into the Death Star's unshielded reactor. The tiny USS Defiant with only 40 crew could destroy the heart of the Empire just like that. Oh yeah, did I mention that SW tech does not include transporters?

In fleet battles, Star Destroyers are vulnerable. The ST ships just have to concentrate fire on the exposed spherical shield generators and then fire on the bridge. A few quantum torpedoes and it is all over.

Tie fighters would be no issue either. They could easily overwhelm technology from Kirk or Archer's era. Kirk's Enterprise only had phaser banks. By TNG, the Enterprise and most ships (exluding Excelsior, Ambassador, Miranda, and Oberth class vessels) were equipped with phaser arrays. The phaser arrays can emit multiple beams on multiple targets simultaneously. Since the tie fighters aren't shielded, just a single low powered blast on each ship should do the trick. The Enterprise D or E could emit a dozen simultaneous phaser beams from any single array and get hits easily due to computer targetting. In a matter of seconds, all 72 tie fighters of a Star Destroyer would be gone. Once again, the tie fighters would only kill obsolete ships that predate Nebula and Galaxy class starships.

This is just with Federation Technology. I haven't even talked about the Cardassians, Dominion (Jem'Hadar, Founders, Vorta), Klingons, Romulans, Borg, or Species 8472. Any one of these factions could destroy the entire Galactic Empire and Rebelion.

I love Star Trek, but Star Wars hands down. Star Trek Tech wasn't made for all out war like Star Wars was.

Woofie!!! Freddie couldnt even take Jason...But speaking of Jason...
Jason vs Spawn (tripple overtime in the least :D)

That would be a good fight....


But I think an epic one would be:


Jason vs. the Xenomorph from Aliens....

Morally dubious characters? As cool as Solo is, let's face it, Garak.



You can't be serious.

Please.

The more important question is, who would win in a fight, Freddy Kreuger or Wolverine?

Wolverine of course.

Wolverine of course.

No man! Jason would just be hacked apart, but come back to life! The bastard never dies!


Another good match would be Jason Vs. Michael Myers....

The Cardassians ARE the "coolest" of all sci-fi aliens (thanks to Andrew J Robinson as Garak and Marc Ailimo as Gul Dukat) just not the toughest.

No man! Jason would just be hacked apart, but come back to life! The bastard never dies!


Another good match would be Jason Vs. Michael Myers....

Yeah, but it's Wolverine against Freddie and not Wolverine against Jason.

And they always find a way to get rid of Freddie... until the next sequel of course.

BATTLE ROYAL!!! (with all of the above) :D

Star Trek has....the redshirt. But to be fair, redshirts and stormtroopers are roughly about the same in useability. Although it appears that entrenched stormtroopers have the advantage over entrenched redshirts since stormtroopers benefit from having the ability to emplace and use heavy weapons.

Remember, Stormtroopers are effective when there's no cameras around. Redshirts suck all the time. Also, as the trilogy shows Clonetroopers pwning as the good guys, obviously in this fight the Stormtroopers are the good guys, and thus lay mass pwnage on any redshirts they encounter.

Went with Star Trek but come on now.....
The Vorlons From Babylon-5 would pwn them both :p

I prefer the shadows myself. I figure about six of them would cut the DS to pieces.

This should be an interesting discussion.

Who wins if there is an all out war between the factions of Star Trek and the factions on Star Wars? (Star Wars can't use the force and Star Trek can't use its supernatural beings like the "Wormhole Aliens" AKA The Prophets.)

I say Star Trek wins it. While Star Wars has the Death Star, most of their technology is far behind Star Trek tech.

The Star Trek ships are faster than Star Wars ships. It was established in canon sources that the Milenium Falcon, fastest ship in SW universe, can only go a few times the speed of light. They say it can get across the galaxy in a short amount of time, but realize they are in a different galaxy which is obviously much smaller than the Milky Way given the numbers given. The USS Enterprise NX-01 can go 125c. The Intrepid and Sovereign class vessels go nearly 7,000c. That's much faster than anything in the Star Wars universe. The Borg also have transwarp which can put them in any spot in the galaxy in a very short amount of time.

The Death Star is very vulnerable against ST tech. The Death Star is not shielded and has serious design flaws. All the Federation has to to is send in Sisko and the Defiant in under cloak (a tech not present in SW). Once cloaked, the Defiant can just beam a few anti-matter mines right into the Death Star's unshielded reactor. The tiny USS Defiant with only 40 crew could destroy the heart of the Empire just like that. Oh yeah, did I mention that SW tech does not include transporters?

In fleet battles, Star Destroyers are vulnerable. The ST ships just have to concentrate fire on the exposed spherical shield generators and then fire on the bridge. A few quantum torpedoes and it is all over.

Tie fighters would be no issue either. They could easily overwhelm technology from Kirk or Archer's era. Kirk's Enterprise only had phaser banks. By TNG, the Enterprise and most ships (exluding Excelsior, Ambassador, Miranda, and Oberth class vessels) were equipped with phaser arrays. The phaser arrays can emit multiple beams on multiple targets simultaneously. Since the tie fighters aren't shielded, just a single low powered blast on each ship should do the trick. The Enterprise D or E could emit a dozen simultaneous phaser beams from any single array and get hits easily due to computer targetting. In a matter of seconds, all 72 tie fighters of a Star Destroyer would be gone. Once again, the tie fighters would only kill obsolete ships that predate Nebula and Galaxy class starships.

This is just with Federation Technology. I haven't even talked about the Cardassians, Dominion (Jem'Hadar, Founders, Vorta), Klingons, Romulans, Borg, or Species 8472. Any one of these factions could destroy the entire Galactic Empire and Rebelion.
Points well made.
I would love to see what a couple of Danube class starships (fitted with an additional exterior rollbar and pod) would do with a squadron or two of X-Wings.

Besides, the chances of surviving as a Red Shirt are way higher than when you're with the Storm Troopers...

Star Trek...

...it just takes a couple of Tribbles, and an opportune moment.

The rest is math. :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNxhrPaaCA4

Enough said, watch and learn....:P

i voted star wars wins, because after all they are so cool with light sabers and all, and they don't send in miniscule squads of troops, but millions of them, robots and clones.

SW wins.

1.Greater ships with a lot more weaponry, and I've never seen an ISD lacking energy for its turbolasers.
2.A lot of small fighters - an ISD carries 72 T/F as standard complement.
3.The DS is shielded. And in SW6, being still unfinished, the DS is shielded via a shield generator on the moon of Endor.
4.ST tech is far inferior, they didn't even discover the SAFETY BELT and the FUSE, as can be seen everytime the Enterprise or the Voyager are hit. What the hell, my own home has a better safety level than the Enterprise D!
5.SW galaxy isn't small - look at the picture of the galaxy as seen from the Outer Rim at the end of SW5. It is at the very least as big as the Milky Way if not greater. So, given that the Millennium Falcon can cross it easily is a very short time...
6.Sheer numbers are on SW's side.
7.Tech level of SW can be deduced by looking at Coruscant... a worldwide, multi-level metropolis, just like Asimov's Trantor. Also use of robots and androids is a lot more common in SW than in ST.

Oh and anyway SW soundtrack is a lot cooler than ST theme, so SW wins.:D

You've got to remember that Star Wars happened a long, long time ago, so by now they've probably developed shield technology, etc. It's not a fair comparison.

Star Wars: Rawr we has a deth starz!

Star Trek: Rarz we has a enterprize!

WH40k: We have Chaos, C'tan and Space Marines, plus about a quadrillion Orks. You all die.

And IDF...if this wasnt already mentioned, the first Death Star had its own shield. The second Death Star had a temporary planetary shield for use while it was under construction.
Both DS', when completed, would have their own shields.

Sheilds that you could fly through. Sheilds that would block blasters but not solid objects. The planetary sheild in 6 could block solid objects but the facility was vulnerable to attack and was destroyed. By people on the surface. With bombs the size of grenades.The armor of the stormtroopers couldn't stop rocks and sticks. The armor of the AT-STs was crushed by logs.

Why use walkers for the Hoth assault when large tanks could travel the flat tundra much faster and couldn't be tripped? Why build a large generator for a base sheild and leave it exposed to attack outside the base? Why make a sheild that can block energy weapons but not solid objects? If the speeders are having trouble with the cold why no use the X-Wings on Hoth? They fly through the cold of space with no trouble. Why not use them to attack the walkers? Surely they have stronger blasters or they wouldn't be used to attack ISDs. Why bother with large ground assaults when an orbital bombardment would do the trick without risking as many lives? Why didn't the empire use droid fighters? The technology seemed to exist. They could be built in huge numbers and were expendable, didn't need pilots, could be made smaller and harder to hit, and the list of advantages goes on. If the weapons, sheilds, and armor on capital ships like the ISDs are as strong as some claim then why bother with weak little fighters? What do all these questions have in common?

The answer to all these questions and many more like them? Because it looks impressive and exciting.

The answer to all these questions and many more like them? Because it looks impressive and exciting.
Amen.

Not that my saying that will end the discussion here or elsewhere. (http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum) ^_^

I'm totally going to lose lunch money doing this...
Sheilds that you could fly through. Sheilds that would block blasters but not solid objects. The planetary sheild in 6 could block solid objects but the facility was vulnerable to attack and was destroyed. By people on the surface. With bombs the size of grenades.
That was left as artificially vulnerable to lure the Rebelion into an attack.
The armor of the stormtroopers couldn't stop rocks and sticks. The armor of the AT-STs was crushed by logs.
Yeah, well.....um...yeah...

Why use walkers for the Hoth assault when large tanks could travel the flat tundra much faster and couldn't be tripped?
You go with the army you have, not the one you wish you had? Plus, perhaps, the psychological effect of the giants.
Why build a large generator for a base sheild and leave it exposed to attack outside the base?
Bait, stated above.
Why make a sheild that can block energy weapons but not solid objects?
Maybe they couldn't.
If the speeders are having trouble with the cold why no use the X-Wings on Hoth?
Cost of operation, plus overkill. The X-Wings are designed to operate in open space, not manuver the reletively tight confines of flying over a surface for patrols and the like.
They fly through the cold of space with no trouble. Why not use them to attack the walkers?
Surely they have stronger blasters or they wouldn't be used to attack ISDs
They needed them to escort the transport ships out. The walkers where only the first wave, they didn't have nearly enough resources to resist invasion indefinately..
Why bother with large ground assaults when an orbital bombardment would do the trick without risking as many lives?
Stormtroopers are clones, you can always make more. They need prisoners because they need intel on the rebelion, bombing would remove a lot of the information that they would need to feret out the rest of the rebelion.
Why didn't the empire use droid fighters? The technology seemed to exist. They could be built in huge numbers and were expendable, didn't need pilots, could be made smaller and harder to hit, and the list of advantages goes on.
In the first three, however, the clone run weapon systems beat droid systems, so it seems like clone operated weapons are better-why use the tech of the army you beat?
If the weapons, sheilds, and armor on capital ships like the ISDs are as strong as some claim then why bother with weak little fighters?
Same reason we don't send in huge gunships all the time and use small fighters. They are lighter, faster and can get in closer sometimes and a flight of them can't be taken out with one shot.
What do all these questions have in common?
They're pointlessly nitpicky armchair generalling?

The answer to all these questions and many more like them? Because it looks impressive and exciting.
There is a little more to it, but seriously, these aren't docudramas.

That's because there really is no space warfare in Dune, as the only faction possessing holtzmann drive tech. is the spacing guild, which is neutral.

And the reason I said lasguns could pwn ST and SW ships is because of the holtzmann-lasgun reaction....thanks.:p

I seem to remember it being mentioned that back in the Bultarion Jihad in a massive space battle the Harkonnan turned on somebody, probably the Atreides. God it's been a while since i read those books. Might have to dig them out.

I seem to remember it being mentioned that back in the Bultarion Jihad in a massive space battle the Harkonnan turned on somebody, probably the Atreides. God it's been a while since i read those books. Might have to dig them out.

Yeah there was, way way back in the time of the thinking machines. I think it was Vorian Atreides and some Harkonnen descendent fighting against three of the Titans....What was his name?

I'm pretty sure both DSs were shielded. The shield projected from Endor to the DSII was just a temporary measure, since its own shield was presumably not functional as it was still being constructed, after all.

There never was anything in SW IV about a shield. The ship was clearly unshielded because they never fired anything at it to take a shield down. They flew into the trenches and fired into the vent with ease. If the DS was shielded, the X-Wings wouldn't have been able to do that.

BTW: Did I mention Trek tech has Klingon Bird of Preys and the Reman Scimitar which both can fire while cloaked.

Considering it would take Voyager something on the order of 80 years to go from the Delta to Alpha Quadrants, it really makes me suspicious about the suposed great speed of Trek ships. SW galaxy is approximately the same size and SW ships can cross entire galaxy in, uh, much quicker time! :D

No they can't, it was stated in Star Wars Episode IV that the Milenium Falcon's top speed is 1.5c. Compare that to Voyager's top speed of around 7,000c. Besides, Borg transwarp technology means that they can get across the galaxy in a day or less.

There never was anything in SW IV about a shield. The ship was clearly unshielded because they never fired anything at it to take a shield down. They flew into the trenches and fired into the vent with ease. If the DS was shielded, the X-Wings wouldn't have been able to do that.

BTW: Did I mention Trek tech has Klingon Bird of Preys and the Reman Scimitar which both can fire while cloaked.

From the New Hope script;

NTERIOR: MASSASSI -- WAR ROOM BRIEFING AREA.

Dodonna stands before a large electronic wall display. Leia
and several other senators are to one side of the giant
readout. The low-ceilinged room is filled with starpilots,
navigators, and a sprinkling of R2-type robots. Everyone is
listening intently to what Dodonna is saying. Han and
Chewbacca are standing near the back.

DODONNA: The battle station is heavily shielded and carries a
firepower greater than half the star fleet. It's defenses are designed
around a direct large-scale assault. A small one-man fighter should be
able to penetrate the outer defense.

Gold Leader, a rough looking man in his early thirties,
stands and addresses Dodonna.

GOLD LEADER: Pardon me for asking, sir, but what good are snub
fighters going to be against that?

DODONNA: Well, the Empire doesn't consider a small one-man fighter to
be any threat, or they'd have a tighter defense. An analysis of the
plans provided by Princess Leia has demonstrated a weakness in the
battle station.

Artoo-Detoo stands next to a similar robot, makes beeping
sounds, and turns his head from right to left.

DODONNA: The approach will not be easy. You are required to maneuver
straight down this trench and skim the surface to this point. The
target area is only two meters wide. It's a small thermal exhaust
port, right below the main port. The shaft leads directly to the
reactor system. A precise hit will start a chain reaction which should
destroy the station.

A murmer of disbelief runs through the room.

DODONNA: Only a precise hit will set up a chain reaction. The shaft is
ray-shielded, so you'll have to use proton torpedoes.

Luke is sitting next to Wedge Antilles, a hotshot pilot
about sixteen years old.

WEDGE: That's impossible, even for a computer.

LUKE: It's not impossible. I used to bull's-eye womp rats in my
T-sixteen back home. They're not much bigger than two meters.

DODONNA: Man your ships! And may the Force be with you!

The group rises and begins to leave.

EXTERIOR: SPACE.

The Death Star begins to move around the planet toward the
tiny green moon.

A new Hope (http://www.blueharvest.net/scoops/anh-script.shtml)

No they can't, it was stated in Star Wars Episode IV that the Milenium Falcon's top speed is 1.5c. Compare that to Voyager's top speed of around 7,000c. Besides, Borg transwarp technology means that they can get across the galaxy in a day or less.

IDF, they never said ANYTHING about 1.5 times lightspeed. The .5 was never given a base measurement. You cannot call it 1.5c because they never establish what .5 means.

And they are using a completely different method of travel. Like I said earlier in the thread, Star Wars FTL technology uses an alternate dimension where the physical laws concerning of lightspeed are obviously completely different than that of our own dimension. How do you know that the speed of light in hyperspace is not thousands or even millions of times faster than it is in our own universe?

For all you know, and Lucas never went into that kind of detail, the Falcons' top speed may be the equivalent to the Borg transwarp capability.

I prefer the shadows myself. I figure about six of them would cut the DS to pieces.

As much as I agree that is the best show of the bunch. The military technology of even the older races isn't up to the firepower and defensive capabilities of either SW or ST.

I have to post at least once, or else I won't be able to ignore this thread.

www.st-v-sw.net

That is all.

Dune tech. pwns all.

Just shoot a lasgun at the shields of the ships in either ST or SW, presto ship destroyed.

To quote Picard
"Lasers? That won't even penetrate our navigational sheilds!"

Star Trek sheilds are supposed to work by creating a powerful enough gravity effect that they bend space around the ship. Only forces that can trancend, or overpower, that much gravity can penetrate the shield. Simple moving objects or energy beams, however much momentum they have behind them will simply turn away from the ship because moving in a straight line will mean following a curve around the ship.

Do I get that NSG Nerd award now?

There never was anything in SW IV about a shield. The ship was clearly unshielded because they never fired anything at it to take a shield down. They flew into the trenches and fired into the vent with ease. If the DS was shielded, the X-Wings wouldn't have been able to do that.

BTW: Did I mention Trek tech has Klingon Bird of Preys and the Reman Scimitar which both can fire while cloaked.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there supposed to be some sort of shield around the Empire's forces in the final showdown in Return of the Jedi?

That's what they were supposed to be shutting down on the moon of Endor. It was an invisible shield, so there was a danger that they were simply going to crash into it.

Even in the second trilogy (which had prettier but assumably less advanced tech) they had shields. Remember SWE1:TPM? The Gungans had the huge shield of death (which failed... design error).

To quote Picard
"Lasers? That won't even penetrate our navigational sheilds!"

Star Trek sheilds are supposed to work by creating a powerful enough gravity effect that they bend space around the ship. Only forces that can trancend, or overpower, that much gravity can penetrate the shield. Simple moving objects or energy beams, however much momentum they have behind them will simply turn away from the ship because moving in a straight line will mean following a curve around the ship.

Yeah, but you're forgetting about the Holtzmann effect. As soon as a lasgun discharge comes in contact with a shield, the Holtzmann effect takes over: subatomic fusion creates a massive nuclear explosion. The problem with the lasgun is that there's a 50% chance that the explosion will originate inside the shield, and a 50% chance of it originating inside the lasgun.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there supposed to be some sort of shield around the Empire's forces in the final showdown in Return of the Jedi?

That's what they were supposed to be shutting down on the moon of Endor. It was an invisible shield, so there was a danger that they were simply going to crash into it.
There was a shield on the original Death Star as well. The only reason that the Death Star II was shielded by an emplacement on Endor was because the DSII wasn't completed.

There's several lines at the end of ANH mentioning the shield, eg, "The battle station is heavily shielded" and "Passing through magnetic shield". Further proof of shields in ANH is the battle between the blockade runner and the Star Destroyer. The SD clearly scores several hits with its bow guns, without causing visible damage (until that explosion that takes out the Tavin's engines.)

I have to post at least once, or else I won't be able to ignore this thread.
So I'll post too...


It doesn't matter. HG2G tech would kick them all... if they both weren't just little HG2G's experiments created and closed on demand.

The Ultimate Tech Movie/Etc.?

Hmm...

Mega Man X/Zero!

:p

Star Trek is no longer nerdy. It's on Spike TV, the only channel dedicated for men. Therefore it is now officially cool.:p

Star Trek is not only no longer nerdy, its technology is starting to be realized today. Teleportation has been demonstrated in the laboratory, and phasers are now being developed. Star Wars tech, on the other hand, doesn't seem to be anywhere in sight and much of it, like light sabers and "turbo-lasers", are probably impossible anyway.

From the New Hope script;



A new Hope (http://www.blueharvest.net/scoops/anh-script.shtml)

If the shields are weak enough to allow solid objects to get through, then photon and quantum torpedoes can do the job that phasers can't. You can also fly the Defiant in under cloak and have her beam the anti-matter right into the primary reactor. The DS is then gone in seconds.

Yeah, but you're forgetting about the Holtzmann effect. As soon as a lasgun discharge comes in contact with a shield, the Holtzmann effect takes over: subatomic fusion creates a massive nuclear explosion. The problem with the lasgun is that there's a 50% chance that the explosion will originate inside the shield, and a 50% chance of it originating inside the lasgun.

I thought the holtzmann effect only occured when a lasgun beam made contact with a shield. Also, if ST shields are using some wierd gravity repulsion technology, then they obviously are not using Holtzmann shields.

I think the energy useage estimated for Star Wars puts it so far ahead of Star Trek, technology-wise that they are incomparable.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

That sums it up nicely.

Pwnd bitches.

That guys fanfic is pretty good, and his anti creationism website is amazing.

Star Trek is not only no longer nerdy, its technology is starting to be realized today. Teleportation has been demonstrated in the laboratory, and phasers are now being developed. Star Wars tech, on the other hand, doesn't seem to be anywhere in sight and much of it, like light sabers and "turbo-lasers", are probably impossible anyway.

On top of that, Duke scientists have developed a working cloaking device. Star Trek has changed this world. It is responsible for laptops, iPods, Palm Pilots, much of our medical technology, NASA's ion engines, etc. Just watch the History Channel show "How William Shatner Changed the World." Star Trek at least tried to be realistic in terms of what technology would be available in the future. It looks like we are ahead of the Star Trek timeline for technological developments.

Just think. Without Star Trek: no laser technology (No CDs, no DVDs, no laser corrective surgery...)

On top of that, Duke scientists have developed a working cloaking device. Star Trek has changed this world. It is responsible for laptops, iPods, Palm Pilots, much of our medical technology, NASA's ion engines, etc. Just watch the History Channel show "How William Shatner Changed the World." Star Trek at least tried to be realistic in terms of what technology would be available in the future. It looks like we are ahead of the Star Trek timeline for technological developments.

Just think. Without Star Trek: no laser technology (No CDs, no DVDs, no laser corrective surgery...)

Would you guys like to back up these claims?

A couple of years ago, Spock's data storage devices looked like 31/2 floppy disks. Or like a MiniDisc.

Didn't some guys also build tricorders of some kind? I remember reading about it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there supposed to be some sort of shield around the Empire's forces in the final showdown in Return of the Jedi?

That's what they were supposed to be shutting down on the moon of Endor. It was an invisible shield, so there was a danger that they were simply going to crash into it.

And in the 6th movie, there was at least one fighter that hit the DS2 shields and exploded. Which means that the Defiant could be cloaked all it wants, it comes in at 1/4 impulse towards the station and slams right in to the shields. Boom, no more Defiant. Remember, during the beginning of the battle over Endor, they realized that the shields were still up but they couldn't get any readings saying they were. They couldn't detect them with any of the Alliance ships sensors.

Plus of course, for the SpecOps team to actually get to the generators, they had to steal an Imperial shuttle, with proper access codes, to get past the shields just to make their landing on Endor. If the Emperor hadn't let the Alliance have those outdated codes, they would have had a REALLY short ending.

But when it comes down to it, Star Wars is a more colorful, more interesting universe than Star Trek. The characters are more interesting, and not as stiff as ST characters. More tech, more races, more interesting worlds. Compare the Empires homeworld to the Federation homeworld. Which looks like it would be more interesting to visit? Hands down for me is the Empire/New Republic.

Hell, they BANNED fireworks in the Star Trek universe! Where the hell is the fun in that?! Meantime, in Jedi, they were actually celebrating the DSIIs' destruction using pyrotechnics launched from starfighters! YEEHAH!

The armor of the AT-STs was crushed by logs.


To be fair, the size of the logs combined with the height of the trees probably indicates something of ironwood toughness at least. There's probably a formula for calculating the amount of force generated by two logs of that size and weight impacting a single object from either side.

Although it wouldn't have to be crushed. A single log hitting it from one side would have produced more than enough force to knock it off its feet I should think. High center of gravity and all.

Would you guys like to back up these claims?

Just go and check your TV listings to see if that history channel program is on anytime soon.

As for the Duke Scientists inventing the cloaking device and the Europeans developing transporters, use the forum search function. I created threads on both topics.

Would you guys like to back up these claims?

Just go and check your TV listings to see if that history channel program is on anytime soon.

As for the Duke Scientists inventing the cloaking device and the Europeans developing transporters, use the forum search function. I created threads on both topics.

Have I mentioned that nano-technology is going to allow us to basically have replicators. They are currently calling them resequencers though.

Compare the Empires homeworld to the Federation homeworld.

You mean.....Earth?

You mean.....Earth?


:D Yeah, but I couldn't remember how to spell the name of the Imperial planet, so I just left both names out. And I was too lazy to go look for it.

star wars rules, hands down, it is far more awesome, but you have to give star trek some respect of course.

Id sic the borg on the Death Star. Without the force SW pales in the face of ST.

Id sic the borg on the Death Star. Without the force SW pales in the face of ST.

At least SW had a fair sprinkling of thermal detonators that would have fried the Borg dronesa. Oh yeah, and EMP guns too. Being so heavily embedded with electronic systems, EMP weapons would be doubly deadly against them I think.

Meh, the Daleks'd kick all your lily-livered bipedal asses horizontal. Even the cardboard ones.

Ah but the whole point of the Borg is that they can adapt. To just about anything thrown at them. That was what made them such great adversaries in TNG. The just kept coming and took anything you threw at them. Then they got ruined in Voyager when they got turned into the villain-of-the-week.

But I think the original Borg, plowing through the galaxy, assimilating ands destroying everything in their path, could easily take the Empire. All they'd need to do is take one Imperial ship and they'd know how to beat the whole Empire. The Borg'd plow through the SW galaxy just as easily as they did (at least during TNG) our galaxy in Trek.

At least SW had a fair sprinkling of thermal detonators that would have fried the Borg dronesa. Oh yeah, and EMP guns too. Being so heavily embedded with electronic systems, EMP weapons would be doubly deadly against them I think.

The borg surely had knowlege of EMP long before they met up with the federation, otherwise theyd be easy to defeat. Thermal detonators might get the first wave. The second would be impervious.

You guys are all total nerds.

Starcraft would walk all over these series. And I can completely back this up. Tomorrow.

Starcraft is about the tech level of Starship Troopers. Guns, bombs, and vehicle mounted lasers.

Don't get me wrong, that is a lot closer to what future warfare will look like and I too am a big fan of SC but it fails in the space battles accuracy/realism department.

Starcraft is about the tech level of Starship Troopers. Guns, bombs, and vehicle mounted lasers.

Don't get me wrong, that is a lot closer to what future warfare will look like and I too am a big fan of SC but it fails in the space battles accuracy/realism department.

If you are looking at the terrans, yes.

The protoss are a whole different level of goodness. Again, I will explain this out fully tomorrow, but realize, the game is not nessecarially correct in all aspects of the starcraft universe(despite being the main proponent if said universe). Battlecruisers carry wraiths, dropships, marines, nuclear weapons, etc. Science vessels would take up more space than an entire SC map. Just think about these, I'll get back to you tomorrow.

The borg surely had knowlege of EMP long before they met up with the federation, otherwise theyd be easy to defeat. Thermal detonators might get the first wave. The second would be impervious.

The Borg rely on computers to assimilate.

In order to assimilate anything, the computer, and the ships electrical systems must be operational.

SW has those nifty Ion cannons wich disrupts electrical machinery, and fries thier cores.

Borg shuts down like a thousand robots whos batteries wear out suddenly.

According to treklore the Borg have been around for quite some time and have probably come by EMP weapons before. All it takes is a couple of hits and they've adapted.

As for the ion cannons: again, just as with blasters, they are balls of charged matter. In reality, they would go nowhere fast in space. In the fictional worlds that these battles would take place in, even disabling a large part of a borg ship wouldn't work because Commander Shelby estimated that a cube could stay operative even if 78% was destroyed.

Common capabilities of cubes include high warp (transwarp) capabilities, self-regeneration and multiple redundant systems, rapid adaptability to almost every seen assault, and various beam (tractor beams and cutting beams) and missile weapons.

All it takes is one capture, maybe even a successful recon (boarding and hacking the ships computers) and engagement and they've got everything they need to win. After that it's only a matter of time.

Hey... you people forgot the MACROSS/ROBOTECH series!

The pinpoint barrier... supercool!

I've heard that SW "turbolaser" is very difficult to classify and seems to have more firepower then it is shown to have. In fact, it seems more powerful then it should be physically capable of existance.

Besides, almost all SW ships have shields, even the Deathstar... although it has a much more powerful shield using a moon based sheild generator.

Han Solo says ".5 past light speed" in A New Hope. Everyone disregards the comment..


Nobody disregards this comment. It is all simple (as explained in books and sourcebooks):

It is equal "plane reaches 300 mph on the ground", i.e., .5 is the speed and 'past light speed' is where this speed is reached.
'0.5', '0,75', etc. are multipliers with which standard travel time is multiplied.
0.5 is the fastest imaginable hyperdrive (it crosses the same distance in half standard time), '2.0' is quite slow (crosses the same distance in double the standard time).

If standard time to cross the half galaxy was 60 hours (i don't remember exactly), then Millenium Falcon, would do it in 30 hours; Slow ship would do it 120 or 180 hours.

My vote in this discussion depends whether we are talking about battle or war. Battle depends on circumstances.

War is won by the Empire. (it has more population, more planets, more ships, extensive shipyards, it's ships are hundreds times faster traveling huge distances past lightspeed)

Just go and check your TV listings to see if that history channel program is on anytime soon.

As for the Duke Scientists inventing the cloaking device and the Europeans developing transporters, use the forum search function. I created threads on both topics.

My point was more that you claimed that Star Trek was 'responsible' for these developments. Star Trek might might have come up with some ideas first (but surely not the Laser as somebody claimed), but that does not mean that we wouldn't have these things without Star Trek, as many of these developments seem quite natural.

Saying that Star Trek is 'responsible' for these things is like saying that Jules Verne is 'responsible' for space flight.

Saying that Star Trek is 'responsible' for these things is like saying that Jules Verne is 'responsible' for space flight.

You mean he wasn't :confused:

My point was more that you claimed that Star Trek was 'responsible' for these developments. Star Trek might might have come up with some ideas first (but surely not the Laser as somebody claimed), but that does not mean that we wouldn't have these things without Star Trek, as many of these developments seem quite natural.

Saying that Star Trek is 'responsible' for these things is like saying that Jules Verne is 'responsible' for space flight.

It was responsible for these developments. Most of the engineers who came up with those inventions actually did so because they saw them on Star Trek.

SW has those nifty Ion cannons wich disrupts electrical machinery, and fries thier cores.

I can't believe I forgot about the ion cannon! :D

It was responsible for these developments. Most of the engineers who came up with those inventions actually did so because they saw them on Star Trek.

Well, and SW brought down in IRL whole new religion (Jedi stuff). As good as any tech, aye?! :)

I can't believe I forgot about the ion cannon! :D

Ion cannons wouldn't ben an issue against the borg. They seem a lot like Romulan and Klingon disruptors. We know the Klingons at Wolf 359 got massacred by the borg. Borg PWNS Empire

Ion cannons wouldn't ben an issue against the borg. They seem a lot like Romulan and Klingon disruptors. We know the Klingons at Wolf 359 got massacred by the borg. Borg PWNS Empire

I don't see ion cannon and disruptors being anything the same. Star Destroyers mount so many weapon platforms anyway that any ST ship will regret the encounter. Not to mention that SW ships are so damn big anyway. ST ships will have a hell of a time doing anything, being so puny.

I love this pic:

http://www.bobafettmp.com/Temp/DieEnterprise.jpg

:D

star trek is real

I don't see ion cannon and disruptors being anything the same. Star Destroyers mount so many weapon platforms anyway that any ST ship will regret the encounter. Not to mention that SW ships are so damn big anyway. ST ships will have a hell of a time doing anything, being so puny.

I love this pic:

http://www.bobafettmp.com/Temp/DieEnterprise.jpg

:DSize means nothing in those battles. All the Trek Universe needs is the Scimitar to fire on them cloaked with its 54 disruptor banks and 27 photon tubes. Oh, I didn't even mention the Thalaron weapon.

You're right, disruptors are actually better than ion cannons. The Romulans used ion cannons when they first appeared in "Balance of Terror." They then developed the more powerful disruptors and abandoned ion cannons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-9tw2mx_gE

Star Trek invented Pop-up ads. Fucking Ferengi.

Size means nothing in those battles. All the Trek Universe needs is the Scimitar to fire on them cloaked with its 54 disruptor banks and 27 photon tubes. Oh, I didn't even mention the Thalaron weapon.

You're right, disruptors are actually better than ion cannons. The Romulans used ion cannons when they first appeared in "Balance of Terror." They then developed the more powerful disruptors and abandoned ion cannons.

Trying to compare the two sounds pretty ridiculous anyway. The two are based on entirely different universes. The laws of physics work entirely different in the two. The warp drive and hyperdrive wouldn't work in the other universe.

DOES ANYONE HERE EVEN KNOW WHAT AN ION IS?

An ion is an atom with a positive or negative charge. It gets a positive charge when it loses electrons. It gets a negative charge when it gains electrons. A blaster fires balls of plasma, which is a positively ionized gas, or matter that has been stripped of its electrons leaving only nuclei. In a vacuum this plasma would rapidly equalize internal pressure with external pressure and the nuclei would repel apart because of like charge. Two things right off the bat that would turn your deadly balls of super-steam into harmless clouds of nothing as soon as they left the weapon.

What was suposed to make the ion cannon so devastating against electronics was the charge the matter the weapon fired carried. A magnetic pulse from detonating a nuke would have done the same thing except that to get an EMP from a nuke you'd need an atmosphere. Without that it's just a flash of light so intense it can burn people from existance. And that isn't even any good in space past about a km or so depending on the size of the nuke. If you're ship is about ten km away from the bomb the most you have to worry about are blinded sensors.

There were 52 disruptor banks on the Scimitar. The Romulans used pulsed plasma weapons that could somehow travel FTL and change direction on their own in "Balance of Terror". Disruptors and phasers are particle weapons that use a made up particle (nadions).

And as stated previously, what made the original Borg so scary was that they could adapt to anything. 2-3 hits and they'd have adapted, meaning you'd have to change your weapon output slightly every shot to keep scoring hits. There is nothing in SW showing that E-11's have more than two settings, stun and kill.

As much as I agree that is the best show of the bunch. The military technology of even the older races isn't up to the firepower and defensive capabilities of either SW or ST.

You need to watch this: http://www.starwreck.com/download.php
It is a full length, fan made movie in which StarTrek human ships confront B5 human ships.
They are quite evenly matched... provided we forget the shields ;) Then again, the most advanced vessels in the human B5 fleet are immune to lightbeam based weapons.

Ya'll need to get Star Trek Armada, and download the SW v ST mod.

Do as much geek as you like.

I find it amusing that people who loathe socialist governments could cheer on the Federation, which is UberSocialism graphically depicted.

HK Assassin droids. Need I say anything more? :D

I find it amusing that people who loathe socialist governments could cheer on the Federation, which is UberSocialism graphically depicted.

Socialism would work if we had mass-replicators, but since we live in the real world and don't have that, I'm a capitalist. Socialism works if you have the technology to meet all of our needs.

You can't be serious.


First off, realize we're talking awesomeness here, not in a fight.

Although, even if it was a fight, Garak would win. Because Garak wouldn't fight a straight fight. He'd hide an explosive in Chewbacca's fur or something.

Socialism would work if we had mass-replicators, but since we live in the real world and don't have that, I'm a capitalist. Socialism works if you have the technology to meet all of our needs.

You forget that the technology has to be distributed to the general public altruistically with no profit motives either. Otherwise all those three-and-four-digit pharmaceuticals along with other technological breakthroughs wouldn't still be exclusive patents.

First off, realize we're talking awesomeness here, not in a fight.

Although, even if it was a fight, Garak would win. Because Garak wouldn't fight a straight fight. He'd hide an explosive in Chewbacca's fur or something.

I love Garak.

"But the point is, if you lie all the time, nobody's going to believe you, even when you're telling the truth."
"Are you sure that's the point, Doctor?"
"Of course, what else could it be?"
"That you should never tell the same lie twice..."

- Julian Bashir and Elim Garak, on the lesson of The Boy Who Cried Wolf

"That is why you came to me, isn't it, captain? Because you knew I could do the things you weren't capable of doing yourself? Well, it worked. And you'll get what you wanted -- a war between the Romulans and the Dominion. If your conscience is bothering you, you should soothe it with the knowledge that you may have just saved the entire Alpha Quadrant, and all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal, and the self-respect of one Starfleet officer. I don't know about you, but I'd call that a bargain."

- Elim Garak

"I've locked Tolar in his quarters. I've also left him with the distinct impression that if he tampers with the lock, it will explode."
"I hope that's just an impression."
"It's best not to dwell on such minutiae."

- Garak and Sisko

http://www.triton.nu/albums/pics/aw_jeez_not_this_shit_again.jpg

If you want to go by the rules that govern the universe as we know them and it:
-both sides lose the FTL
-SW ships are much slower because they are propelled by ion thrusters which are only used now for station keeping because they're so damn weak while trek ships use large impulse engines expelling fusion exhaust
-The plasma blasters of SW ships no longer function because the plasma expands in space like a puff of steam (they are not lasers!)
-SW warheads are only next-gen nukes while trek has anti-matter bombs
-the phasers of trek sadly no longer work because they are based on an imaginary particle (the nadion) but electron beams are being tinkered with today and powerful lasers do exist in trek
-neither side would have sheilds of any kind!
-the death star would never be able to generate enough power to destroy a planet and the "superlaser" isn't really a laser, it's a giant blaster so it has the same problem
-no SW ship would have enough power to fight because they all use a fictional exotic form of matter called hypermatter though I'm sure they could easily be adapted to use a different power source if they really wanted

So if the rules of the real world were applied trek would have the upper hand. If the rules of the real world are thrown out then the whole debate breaks down to each side screaming "I WIN!!1"

You win the thread. Thank you.

Yoda-Borg, thats all I have to say, the Borg assimilate yoda, the Collectivly use force push on, whatever ship they deem nessecary. Or a sith, and use Force lightning.

Yoda-Borg, thats all I have to say, the Borg assimilate yoda, the Collectivly use force push on, whatever ship they deem nessecary. Or a sith, and use Force lightning.

Well, Yoda died... But the truth is, they only need to assimilate one Force sensitive, even if the potential is only latent, and since all evidence points to use of the Force having at least some genetic aspects, it would only be a couple of years before all Borg were modified to be force sensitive, if not active users.

Yoda-Borg, thats all I have to say, the Borg assimilate yoda, the Collectivly use force push on, whatever ship they deem nessecary. Or a sith, and use Force lightning.

You'd think Force Lightning would really mess with a Borg's electrical components.

This thread is really raising the nerd levels of the forum. Some poor chap is going to join General for the first time, deciding to give internet forums a chance despite having heard they're full of geeks, and then will see this and run away again.

Think about it. You people have killed the next big Generalite. :(

This thread is really raising the nerd levels of the forum. Some poor chap is going to join General for the first time, deciding to give internet forums a chance despite having heard they're full of geeks, and then will see this and run away again.

Think about it. You people have killed the next big Generalite. :(
And then remember this is the third thread about this:(

I'm playing NS way too long :/

Think about it. You people have killed the next big Generalite. :(

"There is no death; there is only the Force." :D

I'm actually amazed this topic has gone on for 14 pages.

Think about it. You people have killed the next big Generalite. :(

Either that or we'll attract loads of trek-nerds who will spam the forum with crap about Klingon tc-3 class destroyers and photon missiles and "would you vote for a firangi or a klingon for president?"

"There is no death; there is only the Force." :D

I'm actually amazed this topic has gone on for 14 pages.

I remember the prevouis one got to forty:p

Either that or we'll attract loads of trek-nerds who will spam the forum with crap about Klingon tc-3 class destroyers and photon missiles and "would you vote for a firangi or a klingon for president?"

Ferengi or Klingon? Interesting question. On the one side, a Ferengi is far less likely to get us involved in a war, but would almost certainly be corrupt, and you can say good bye to any helpful social programs. A Klingon would almost certainly get us involved in any number of wars, but would probably not be corrupt. No clue what Klingon social programs are like...

I'd prefer a Vulcan, honestly.

Ferengi or Klingon? Interesting question. On the one side, a Ferengi is far less likely to get us involved in a war, but would almost certainly be corrupt, and you can say good bye to any helpful social programs. A Klingon would almost certainly get us involved in any number of wars, but would probably not be corrupt. No clue what Klingon social programs are like...

I'd prefer a Vulcan, honestly.

And the worst aspects of the two are manifest in current government; greed and pointless warhawking.

I forgot to mention that shields are nearly useless against Dominion Phased Polaron Beams. They are also useless against the borg as the borg phasers can penetrate shields. The borg can also beam through shields.

I should mention that by 2380 (a few years after Nemesis) Starfleet has developed transphasic torpedoes which can fly through shields and matter before exploding deep within the enemy's hull.

Star trek technology is obviously superior. Star Wars tech was designed to be gritty and realistic. Star trek was designed to be very futuristic, and borderline utopian. The only advantage Star Wars might have would be a lightsaber wielding force user.

Star trek technology is obviously superior. Star Wars tech was designed to be gritty and realistic. Star trek was designed to be very futuristic, and borderline utopian. The only advantage Star Wars might have would be a lightsaber wielding force user.

Star Trek is looking to be more realistic. Afterall, much of the technology seen in Star Trek is now a part of our everyday lives.

Cellphones, laptops, iPod music libraries on our computers, laser surgeries to fix eyes, destroy tumors, etc, ion engines, solar sails, small transporters, small cloaking devices, and nano-technology is being used for possible replicators. I don't think I've seen a single Star Wars invention come to fruitation.

Maybe its because us Trekkies are smarter than Star Wars fans.:p

The Borg rely on computers to assimilate.

In order to assimilate anything, the computer, and the ships electrical systems must be operational.

SW has those nifty Ion cannons wich disrupts electrical machinery, and fries thier cores.

Borg shuts down like a thousand robots whos batteries wear out suddenly.

Ion cannon would disrupt electrical components yes, however it wouldn't do jack against fiber optics.

Star Trek is looking to be more realistic. Afterall, much of the technology seen in Star Trek is now a part of our everyday lives.

Cellphones, laptops, iPod music libraries on our computers, laser surgeries to fix eyes, destroy tumors, etc, ion engines, solar sails, small transporters, small cloaking devices, and nano-technology is being used for possible replicators. I don't think I've seen a single Star Wars invention come to fruitation.

Maybe its because us Trekkies are smarter than Star Wars fans.:p

Star wars was never meant to really reflect where science was going. Science fiction was just the backdrop. The star wars film series could have been accomplished in a midieval setting with little change to the plot. The science was never more than one of the sources for the fantastical nature of the setting.

Star Trek, however, was always meant as an honest exploration of the future, and where science will take us. Hell, most issues in Star Trek are solved not by some plucky hero, but by two engineers who toss around terms like "Polarize the field converters" and "Modify the sensors to emit tachyons". The real hero of First Gen star trek, as most trekkies know, wasn't kirk. It was Scotty.

Star wars was never about the technology. Star Trek always was.

Star Trek is looking to be more realistic. Afterall, much of the technology seen in Star Trek is now a part of our everyday lives.

Cellphones, laptops, iPod music libraries on our computers, laser surgeries to fix eyes, destroy tumors, etc, ion engines, solar sails, small transporters, small cloaking devices, and nano-technology is being used for possible replicators. I don't think I've seen a single Star Wars invention come to fruitation.

Maybe its because us Trekkies are smarter than Star Wars fans.:p

Cellphones? The communicators they used were basically walkie-talkies. Not cellphone like. They could only talk to each other and the ship. You can't use a ST communicator to call down top the local pizza joint. Same with the little ones Lucas used in SW.

if you can find it, read The Making of Star Trek. It came out in 1969, so it may be hard to find. In it, they talk about stuff like FTL drives and the tech they created for the show. Their ion drive came from already existing concepts coming out of JPL and other research labs. They actually, if I remember right, decided on the idea of ion simply cause Gene didn't want any sort of rocket flames shooting out the ass-end. As for solar-sails, the concept for those first appeared back in the 1920s'. LINK (http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/outerplanets2001/pdf/4070.pdf)

Lasers were beginning to come into use in the medical field in the early 1960's. I cannot find another link for it, but I would swear that I've heard they started working with them earlier than that. Might be mistaken though. LINK. (http://www.discoveriesinmedicine.com/Hu-Mor/Laser-Surgery.html)

Correct me if I am wrong, but when did anyone in the series use anything that could have been construed as a laptop? All the computer access they used was devices that folded out of the tabletops. I don't remember a single episode where they physically carried a computer with them.

Found a reissue of the book on Amazon. (http://www.amazon.com/Making-Star-Trek-Stephen-Whitfield/dp/0345340191/sr=8-1/qid=1161797950/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-6252285-7297726?ie=UTF8&s=books)

Remember, Roddenberry was not a science wiz or even a sci-fi writer. His background was LAPD and the first shows he created were cop shows. So I think you'll find that he borrowed from then current theories and concepts.

IDF, you are changing the topic, you were claiming the ST could beat SW in a firefight. Stay on target.:D

Either that or we'll attract loads of trek-nerds who will spam the forum with crap about Klingon tc-3 class destroyers and photon missiles and "would you vote for a firangi or a klingon for president?"
Qapla!
i would vote firangi, since they seem to have a feminist movement. and they're not really warriors. and quark was way too funny, warf really wasn't.

Qapla!
i would vote firangi, since they seem to have a feminist movement. and they're not really warriors. and quark was way too funny, warf really wasn't.

What feminist movement? Their women are not allowed to wear any clothes and can't earn a profit.

That was before the new Nagus was apointed. Rom was suposed to be big on reform if I'm not mistaken.

Stop talking about ion engines being used in ST. They used impulse engines. The impulse engines are Nuclear Fusion engines whereas the plasma from the fusion reactor powers a massive magnetic coil to propel the ship. It is a form of Magnetoplasmadynamic thruster.

Lasers were invented long before trek but were not well understood by the general public before or even after TOS. And they were only used as the primary defensive/offensive weapon by the Federation in the original pilot.

Solar sails were never a main propulsion system in ST and only appeared in a couple of episodes like that stupid DS9 one where they somehow go FTL in one by riding tachyons (which would not be the case in RL, not even close).

The tricorders were suposed to be like portable computers and stuffed with equipment to measure surroundings.

The disks that Spock used were suposed to be 'tapes' of some kind (or at least that's what they were sometimes called) but were really just colored wood or plastic blocks.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if the rules of the real world were applied to both ST would have a slight advantage over SW. If it were universe against universe and the rules of reality were ignored the trek universe would still win because it has the Borg and a few other super aliens that could pwn SW. If it were the Federation against the Empire the Empire would seem to have the upper hand because of numbers even though the Empire would seem to have inferior technology and poor ship design.

Put this debate to rest. Please.

SW weapon ranges are shown to be much much shorter. ST weapon ranges are in the thousands of kilometers. Star Wars weapons were horridly inaccurate at extremely close ranges.

Also fighters in space? That's just silly when you've got near light speed weapons.

Dosuun, you really need to relax there a bit. This is a friendly, nerdy discussion. Don't take it so damned seriously. The tricorder was never used as a computer. The original series always used it as a portable sensing device and data recorder. It combined into a smaller package equipment already in use at the time.

For the most part, the technology shown in the series was evolutionary systems based on technology known to people of the 60's. They simply made things smaller and more efficient. Sorta like going from vaccuum-tubes to transistors in radios.

Oh, BTW, the impulse engines aren't nuclear fusion, they are a gimmick. Roddenberry called them that so he wouldn't have to be nailed down on what was powering the ship at sublight speeds. So yeah, my mention of ion drives was wrong. They decided against calling them ion, because scientists of the time said an ion drive would be way to slow for something like the Enterprise.

Small bit of Star Trek trivia for you; The current shape of all Enterprises is upside down. The original concept had the main hull over the engines and saucer. At some point during pre-production, someone flipped the model over, and Gene liked it so he decided to keep it that way.

I can't believe this debate is still going on when one, just one entity in ST could wipe out both galaxies.

It is spelled...'Q'.

SW weapon ranges are shown to be much much shorter. ST weapon ranges are in the thousands of kilometers. Star Wars weapons were horridly inaccurate at extremely close ranges.

Also fighters in space? That's just silly when you've got near light speed weapons.

fighters are seen in both ST and SW...
------

and SW fighters give SW a great advantage, they have better speed and monuverability then ST shuttles as well as better weapons, and i have seen far to often ST weapons miss shuttle craft...

SW ships general combat point is to hit the enemy hard and be able to be hit hard. if say a Galaxy class got within firing range of an Imperial-class Star Destroyer then it would get ripped up. though the ability to hit is considerable less for SW they can mass fire and the stronger the weapon the better the range, though yes, far behind the range of ST weapons

and might i quote

Lightspeed was a slang term referring to the speed at which a starship traveled through hyperspace. In reality though, lightspeed, or traveling through hyperspace with a 1x hyperdrive motivator was actually over one hundred million times faster than the speed of light, allowing a ship to cross the Galaxy in a matter of hours.

The Galactic Republic, Galactic Empire, New Republic, and the Galactic Alliance all occupied a single galaxy, known simply as the Galaxy.

Judging from the maps available, it appeared to be a galaxy of Sb type. According to some sources, the Galaxy was 120,000 light years across, or 37,000 Parsecs (a parsec is 3.258 light years) across.

There were approximately 400 billion stars and around half of these had planets that could support life. 10% of those developed life, while sentient life developed in 1/1000 of those (about 20 million).

I can't believe this debate is still going on when one, just one entity in ST could wipe out both galaxies.

It is spelled...'Q'.


if you read the topic, such things are not permited to be counted

SW weapon ranges are shown to be much much shorter. ST weapon ranges are in the thousands of kilometers. Star Wars weapons were horridly inaccurate at extremely close ranges.

Also fighters in space? That's just silly when you've got near light speed weapons.

I think you've got it backwards. I just caught part of an episode of TNG and despite being less than a few hundred meters apart, it took the bad guys several shots to hit a shuttle even once. They didn't even open fire until they were a couple football fields apart. Also, didn't someone post earlier in th ethread that the Star Wars tech books claim weapons ranges in the hundreds of thousands to millions of kilometers range?

That show was so fucking pussified it makes my teeth hurt. I kept hoping they'd put Worf, Deanna, Picard and Data in a shuttle and blowing the damned thing up. The four biggest wusses on the show. That series needs another Kirk, Scotty, Bones and Spock team.

Just a thought, wouldn't concepts for god-like beings such as Q or the wormhole gods in DS-9 suggest that the series has lost some of its' realism? And where the hell is the fun in a character who can literally do anything, even if it violates the laws of physics?

I think you've got it backwards. I just caught part of an episode of TNG and despite being less than a few hundred meters apart, it took the bad guys several shots to hit a shuttle even once. They didn't even open fire until they were a couple football fields apart. Also, didn't someone post earlier in th ethread that the Star Wars tech books claim weapons ranges in the hundreds of thousands to millions of kilometers range?

That show was so fucking pussified it makes my teeth hurt. I kept hoping they'd put Worf, Deanna, Picard and Data in a shuttle and blowing the damned thing up. The four biggest wusses on the show. That series needs another Kirk, Scotty, Bones and Spock team.

Just a thought, wouldn't concepts for god-like beings such as Q or the wormhole gods in DS-9 suggest that the series has lost some of its' realism? And where the hell is the fun in a character who can literally do anything, even if it violates the laws of physics?

if im correct SW ships have near 100K ranges, though none to great at hiting things, they can mass fire better as i have said. also i have seen an ep where a Cardassian(sp?) ship fired on the Enterprise-D from about 100K, ST is bad at hiting small targets, and the tech seems more buggy, SW can just pound away for a long time

It was established in the episode when the rogue captain takes the Nebula class Phoenix in to fight the Cardassians that Federation weapons can score kills at 250,000 km. That is much further than the range of any SW weapons we see.

As for ST fighters, we aren't talking about shuttles. Starfleet has actual designated fighters that have 3 phaser arrays and 1 torpedo tube (a lot of fire power for a fighter). The torpedo tubes can fire quantum torpedoes. We saw this during the Dominion War.

It has been established that a large Federation Starship of Nebula class or later would have no issue with fighters. Now X-wings and other fighters would create issues for pre-Nebula and Galaxy class ships like the Ambassador, Miranda, Constitution, and Excelsior class vessels. The Nebula class and later ships replaced phaser banks with phaser arrays.

Phaser arrays allow dozens of simultaneous bursts to be fired at seperate targets with computer targetting. That means that newer Federation ships could simultaneously destroy a dozen fighters and then do the same thing again a few seconds later. Besides, the dinky lasers on the fighters wouldn't even dent the shields.

It was established in the episode when the rogue captain takes the Nebula class Phoenix in to fight the Cardassians that Federation weapons can score kills at 250,000 km. That is much further than the range of any SW weapons we see.

As for ST fighters, we aren't talking about shuttles. Starfleet has actual designated fighters that have 3 phaser arrays and 1 torpedo tube (a lot of fire power for a fighter). The torpedo tubes can fire quantum torpedoes. We saw this during the Dominion War.

It has been established that a large Federation Starship of Nebula class or later would have no issue with fighters. Now X-wings and other fighters would create issues for pre-Nebula and Galaxy class ships like the Ambassador, Miranda, Constitution, and Excelsior class vessels. The Nebula class and later ships replaced phaser banks with phaser arrays.

Phaser arrays allow dozens of simultaneous bursts to be fired at seperate targets with computer targetting. That means that newer Federation ships could simultaneously destroy a dozen fighters and then do the same thing again a few seconds later. Besides, the dinky lasers on the fighters wouldn't even dent the shields.

Lasers wouldn't be used on Cap ships, though they would do damage to the weak shields of ST ships. might i point out that an Intrepid class is more advanced then a Nebula yet has several times missed such small craft.

3 phaser arrays and 1 torpedo tube is not all that much, Y-Wings carry 2 laser cannons, 2 Ion cannons, and 2 torpedo launchers, X-Wings are armed with 4 heavy laser cannons and 2 torpedo launchers. and don't make the commen mistake that SW laser cannons are anything like the ones seen in ST. just like lightspeed it is not really what it is called.

though i do agree that ST weapons have a longer range

Given the fleets we saw in the Dominion War, the Federation at any time would have over 10,000 starships. The Klingons would have between 15,000 and 20,000. The Romulan fleet is likely smaller, but has more powerful ships. The Cardassian fleet itself is probably comparable to the Klingon fleet in size. The Dominion Fleet is much larger. All of these groups have replication technology so construction is done quite quickly (especially for the Dominion).


let me notes that the ship count for the Federation includes ALL ships, beit a Nova or a Galaxy...

the Empire alone has 10,000 to 25,000 Star Destroyers, and many more smaller capital ships such as Nebulon-B figates, CR90 Corvettes, etc, and many many more fighters...a united ST Galaxy would face near the same amount of capital ships and far more fighters

let me notes that the ship count for the Federation includes ALL ships, beit a Nova or a Galaxy...

the Empire alone has 10,000 to 25,000 Star Destroyers, and many more smaller capital ships such as Nebulon-B figates, CR90 Corvettes, etc, and many many more fighters...a united ST Galaxy would face near the same amount of capital ships and far more fighters

You fail to mention that the Breen have an additional 10,000, the Klingons have 25,000, the Romulans have 10,000, the Cardassians have 20,000, the Dominion has tens of thousands of ships int he Gamma Quadrant. Believe me, ST wins in the numbers game.

I'm telling you people...it's all about Tribbles.

Why else would Klingons go out of their way to try and exterminate them? :p

You fail to mention that the Breen have an additional 10,000, the Klingons have 25,000, the Romulans have 10,000, the Cardassians have 20,000, the Dominion has tens of thousands of ships int he Gamma Quadrant. Believe me, ST wins in the numbers game.

And the Borg have hundreds of thousands of ships if you're counting them.

I think the energy useage estimated for Star Wars puts it so far ahead of Star Trek, technology-wise that they are incomparable.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

That sums it up nicely.

StarDestroyer.net is not a credible source... They are Warzies, so all their information and data is "edited" for their own purposes, in many case ommiting pertinent facts for their own means and ends to derive better numbers from their so-called analysis for the benefit of SW-tech...

I think you've got it backwards. I just caught part of an episode of TNG and despite being less than a few hundred meters apart, it took the bad guys several shots to hit a shuttle even once. They didn't even open fire until they were a couple football fields apart. Also, didn't someone post earlier in th ethread that the Star Wars tech books claim weapons ranges in the hundreds of thousands to millions of kilometers range?

That show was so fucking pussified it makes my teeth hurt. I kept hoping they'd put Worf, Deanna, Picard and Data in a shuttle and blowing the damned thing up. The four biggest wusses on the show. That series needs another Kirk, Scotty, Bones and Spock team.

Just a thought, wouldn't concepts for god-like beings such as Q or the wormhole gods in DS-9 suggest that the series has lost some of its' realism? And where the hell is the fun in a character who can literally do anything, even if it violates the laws of physics?

Non-canon materials aren't relevant to the argument. And a person who supports the jedi can hardly bitch about laws of physics.

Searching the thread i didn't find any mention of this.
I beg for pardon if someone already pointed that out.

The Empire HAS cloaking devices!!

Darth Maul's ship was equipped with one (Darth Maul novels)
Trawn's used them on his ships (Thrawn trilogy)
The Shadow Academy was equipped with cloaking (Young Jedi knights saga)

Edit: Oh and TIE stands for Twin Ion Engine

It was established in the episode when the rogue captain takes the Nebula class Phoenix in to fight the Cardassians that Federation weapons can score kills at 250,000 km. That is much further than the range of any SW weapons we see.

You don't see capital ship combat within the Movies apart from Episode Three, which is hardly a good enough gauge for high Empire technology. I point out Return of the Jedi when the rebels move to point blank range to avoid the Death Stars superlaser, what you often suppose as optimum firing range is the last ditch efforts of a beaten foe to avoid a Superlaser. For proper gauges of Imperial weapons and ranges we have to look towards the expanded universe.

Even when in combat against the Millennium falcon or the Tentative V an Imperial Star Destroy only uses light turrets based for anti fighter combat. Once more we can't exactly get a proper gauge of Imperial weapons. However Federation and Star Trek weapons certainly which I will elaborate on shortly.

As for ST fighters, we aren't talking about shuttles. Starfleet has actual designated fighters that have 3 phaser arrays and 1 torpedo tube (a lot of fire power for a fighter). The torpedo tubes can fire quantum torpedoes. We saw this during the Dominion War.

It has been established that a large Federation Starship of Nebula class or later would have no issue with fighters. Now X-wings and other fighters would create issues for pre-Nebula and Galaxy class ships like the Ambassador, Miranda, Constitution, and Excelsior class vessels. The Nebula class and later ships replaced phaser banks with phaser arrays.

Phaser arrays allow dozens of simultaneous bursts to be fired at separate targets with computer targeting. That means that newer Federation ships could simultaneously destroy a dozen fighters and then do the same thing again a few seconds later. Besides, the dinky lasers on the fighters wouldn't even dent the shields.[/b]

While I don't disagree with you over the potency of phaser arrays in their anti fighter roles. Federation warships and more notably their shields are notoriously sketchy. On top of this, their ability to target even one capital ship moving at low velocities is astounding even for super races like the borg.

Don't believe me?

Then I give you footage to back up my claims.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRm0RfUGkS4 I think it puts to rest the Treky accuracy claim.

Searching the thread i didn't find any mention of this.
I beg for pardon if someone already pointed that out.

The Empire HAS cloaking devices!!

Darth Maul's ship was equipped with one (Darth Maul novels)
Trawn's used them on his ships (Thrawn trilogy)
The Shadow Academy was equipped with cloaking (Young Jedi knights saga)

Edit: Oh and TIE stands for Twin Ion Engine

1) Empire sensors are pathetic, so a cloaking device is not likely well developed.
2) Novels are not cannon.
3) Ion Engines are very slow to accelerate but offer excellent efficency and decent top speed. An actual TIE would be a sitting duck and very difficult to manuever. So don't play up the ion engine bit.

1) Empire sensors are pathetic, so a cloaking device is not likely well developed.

How can you judge this without using the novels. I didn't see a cloaked ship in the Star Wars films....

2) Novels are not cannon.

I'll tell Lucas then shall I? As far as I'm aware Lucas arts says they're canon..... But then again, I'm sure your right instead of the producers :rolleyes:

3) Ion Engines are very slow to accelerate but offer excellent efficency and decent top speed. An actual TIE would be a sitting duck and very difficult to manuever. So don't play up the ion engine bit.

I saw them move pretty darn fast in the movies. But then, it can't be canon surely? They accelerated quickly and moved quickly. Ion engines are based on intensity of thrust. How do you know how great the intensity is? Or the force exerted? I think you're basing your assumptions from modern day space probes, something which I think we can all agree upon, that Imperial technology is far above.

This should be an interesting discussion.
The Star Trek ships are faster than Star Wars ships. It was established in canon sources that the Milenium Falcon, fastest ship in SW universe, can only go a few times the speed of light. They say it can get across the galaxy in a short amount of time, but realize they are in a different galaxy which is obviously much smaller than the Milky Way given the numbers given. The USS Enterprise NX-01 can go 125c. The Intrepid and Sovereign class vessels go nearly 7,000c. That's much faster than anything in the Star Wars universe. The Borg also have transwarp which can put them in any spot in the galaxy in a very short amount of time.

Recent theories in real science have suggested that the speed of light is actually much faster than we think. And that the visible light we see is only limited by the 3rd dimension. So depending on what definition of light/medium you are referring to, the Millenium Falcon would be fastest. Given the size of the SW galaxy, as referenced in the various episodes as number of inhabited systems, is probably similar in size to ours.


...under cloak (a tech not present in SW)...


If you recall, in Empire Strikes Back, the Imperial officer says, "A ship that small couldn't have a cloaking device."

However, ST would definitely seem to have to advantage concerning firepower and armor/shields. SW has a major advantage with numbers though. In the end, it may be a bit of a toss up. In some areas I think each will have its strengths. This video proves it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNxhrPaaCA4

However, ST would definitely seem to have to advantage concerning firepower and armor/shields. I would certainly disagree, primarily when I look at Death Stars or energy shields. For example a Hoth based projector, owned by the rebel alliance was capable of preventing any orbital strikes. Pretty darn strong shields I think.[/quote]

SW has a major advantage with numbers though. In the end, it may be a bit of a toss up.

I completely agree. Though I think we need to focus upon the simple speed variences between the two forces. Hyperdrive is certainly millions of times faster than anything the Federation has. When it comes to a fight the Empire can really just hit, destroy and leave. The Federation is too vast to really defend all of her worlds, shown by the dominion wars. And well, it only takes a few drity bombs....

How can you judge this without using the novels. I didn't see a cloaked ship in the Star Wars films.... Uh, they didn't detect a ship attached to their bloody hull. I'd call that pretty bad.



I'll tell Lucas then shall I? As far as I'm aware Lucas arts says they're canon..... But then again, I'm sure your right instead of the producers :rolleyes: Depends on the books, try to stick to the films since the books often get down right silly.



I saw them move pretty darn fast in the movies. But then, it can't be canon surely? They accelerated quickly and moved quickly. Ion engines are based on intensity of thrust. How do you know how great the intensity is? Or the force exerted? I think you're basing your assumptions from modern day space probes, something which I think we can all agree upon, that Imperial technology is far above. I know how Ion engines work, despite the supposed acronym and the part the previous poster stressed the TIE fighters cannot be powered by an ion engine unless it's massively more powerful than anything we're currently aware is possible. Also the TIE fighters were never shown to be particularly fast. They're very small but never very fast. They look quick because they're tiny, but their rate of movement in the films is quite slow. Crossing any meaningful distance in one would take forever. I find the fact that neither side could hit the little things somewhat laughable.

Uh, they didn't detect a ship attached to their bloody hull. I'd call that pretty bad.

I would say pretty darn realistic. All sensory equipment has blind spots and an Imperial Star Destroyer primarily due to her design is certainly going to have them at very close proximity.

If anything you can claim a stupid command crew for not noticing or registering the blunder, however such sensory blind spots are rather palpable and realistic. Depending of course on where the receivers are situated upon the Star Destroyer. Or did you just think sensors worked like magic?

I therefore challenge your claim that their sensors are rubbish, after all I don't see Imperial operations being distorted by a layering of Ice on Hoth or even the rebel energy shield. Now we're done with that we could always move on to Star Trek sensors, which as I'm sure you are aware, are often distorted by ORE deposits. Or other mysterious metal alloys which are only paper thin.

Depends on the books, try to stick to the films since the books often get down right silly.

You can't really pick and choose otherwise your ability to participate in this nerdy debate is hardly possible.


I know how Ion engines work, despite the supposed acronym and the part the previous poster stressed the TIE fighters cannot be powered by an ion engine unless it's massively more powerful than anything we're currently aware is possible. Also the TIE fighters were never shown to be particularly fast. They're very small but never very fast. They look quick because they're tiny, but their rate of movement in the films is quite slow. Crossing any meaningful distance in one would take forever. I find the fact that neither side could hit the little things somewhat laughable.

They seemed to be pretty darn fast to me. Crossing and moving through the entire interior of a death star in about thirty seconds while taking careful cause to manoeuvre seems like you are rather wrong.

We can also use their speeds and ability to judge them when passing an Imperial Star destroyer, about 1.3km in under five seconds. Seems rather fast to me for a close support vessel.

You're also not really taking in their situation to account. Most of the time in the films Tie Fighters were used to herd, not destroy enemy craft. Hardly exposing them to their fullt potency.

Crossing any meaningful distance in one would take forever.

You misunderstand the necessity of fighter craft. They are close proximity support ships for the larger capital warships to protect them from precision tactical assaults from bombers and other nasties. They're not exactly designed to cross systems or Galaxies. To do that the Empire fits Hyperdrives onto them.

But in regard to speeds, in Episode 4, we saw an Imperial scout craft reach the Death Star rather quickly when it met the Millennium falcon. It must have covered a few hundred thousand km (AT LEAST) in about 30 seconds or so. Fast enough for me

EDIT:- Wrong browser up I'm afraid. Unified Sith here.

Can ST shields stand up to lasers with gigawatt-range power? How about terawatt lasers? Can ST shields handle that?

Just a question.

40K Tech > Dune Tech > SW Tech > ST Tech

It's been statistically proven that Star Wars technology is more powerful then Star Trek's. I forget where that site is, but it exists...

Star Wars tech is probably even stronger than the 40K or the Dune tech.
40K is degenerating very fast, and the only thing making Dune tech strong is the Holzmann effect... Almost all of their technology, from those inpenetrable shields to "instant" interstellar travel is based on it...

And what comes to the ST tech, they really cannot hope to beat any of these factions, not even though they have the transporter technology.

Novels are not cannon.

Define canon. According to writer Michael Stackpole, Lucasfilm vets every book to make sure it stays within the universe they've created. They approved killing a major character off in one of the books.

Okay, where did I mention Jedi at all, Khadgar? Those lightsabers are cool looking, but give me a good blaster rifle any day. Or the pistol that Lucas built around a Luger.

psh, DMX would kick all their asses.

psh, DMX would kick all their asses.

The rapper? :D :D :D LOL.

I would say pretty darn realistic. All sensory equipment has blind spots and an Imperial Star Destroyer primarily due to her design is certainly going to have them at very close proximity.

If anything you can claim a stupid command crew for not noticing or registering the blunder, however such sensory blind spots are rather palpable and realistic. Depending of course on where the receivers are situated upon the Star Destroyer. Or did you just think sensors worked like magic?

I therefore challenge your claim that their sensors are rubbish, after all I don't see Imperial operations being distorted by a layering of Ice on Hoth or even the rebel energy shield. Now we're done with that we could always move on to Star Trek sensors, which as I'm sure you are aware, are often distorted by ORE deposits. Or other mysterious metal alloys which are only paper thin.That's all correct. Now remember there were two other SD's around:p

edit: ah crap, now I feel like a nerd again:(

You fail to mention that the Breen have an additional 10,000, the Klingons have 25,000, the Romulans have 10,000, the Cardassians have 20,000, the Dominion has tens of thousands of ships int he Gamma Quadrant. Believe me, ST wins in the numbers game.

i was actually piting the Empire against all of the Galaxy...save the Borg and 8472, i must admit that the Borg are far above anything the Empire do to the ability of adapting, though in full force they are more then anyone can handle in ST save 8472.

however if we cancal them out the Empire has more ships, all built for combat to take on the full fleets of ST...

the Corellian gunship supports more firepower then most Federation Cruisers and its smaller then all Fed capital ships (120m as compared to the Defiant being about 170m and the Nova 160 some meters IIRC)

Should the Dominion, Romulans, Cardassians, Klingons, Breen, and Federation ally, they would have a numerical superiority between 4:1 and 8:1 depending on who's numbers you buy.

The transphasic torpedoes developed can kill a Borg cube in one hit. They would do the same to the DS since they wouldn't explode until they reached the central reactor core.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRm0RfUGkS4 I think it puts to rest the Treky accuracy claim.

70% of the time it's not the Federation shooting....:p

70% of the time it's not the Federation shooting....:p

And the weapons missing are mainly torpedoes and disruptors. When Federation starships fire their phasers, they almost laways hit.

Should the Dominion, Romulans, Cardassians, Klingons, Breen, and Federation ally, they would have a numerical superiority between 4:1 and 8:1 depending on who's numbers you buy.

The transphasic torpedoes developed can kill a Borg cube in one hit. They would do the same to the DS since they wouldn't explode until they reached the central reactor core.


you said 10,000, the Klingons have 25,000, the Romulans have 10,000, the Cardassians have 20,000 Dominian has "tens of thousands" and the Fed has about 10,000 correct? thats about

75,000 + say 40,000 for the dominian? thats 115,000 vs 10,000-25,000 Star Destroyers and 100,000+ Capital ships of lesser classes that are still stronger then most of the ST ships...lets not forget the millions for SW fighters out there.

and the torpedo would need to hit the core...

not to mention

Despite the power of the transphasic torpedo, they were not shown or mentioned in Star Trek: Nemesis, possibly due to research or them being stored away by Starfleet to prevent suspicion from other species and to prevent a major power shift. They may have also been mothballed or destroyed due to temporal considerations. Another possibility is that, since Voyager states that its photon torpedoes are irreplaceable, the transphasic torpedoes might be similarly so, despite having the resources of Starfleet. It might just be that Starfleet has not put the Torpedo into Mass Production yet. Or, as it was specifically designed for use against the Borg, it may exploit some unique aspect of Borg technology and be of little use against other targets.

you said 10,000, the Klingons have 25,000, the Romulans have 10,000, the Cardassians have 20,000 Dominian has "tens of thousands" and the Fed has about 10,000 correct? thats about

75,000 + say 40,000 for the dominian? thats 115,000 vs 10,000-25,000 Star Destroyers and 100,000+ Capital ships of lesser classes that are still stronger then most of the ST ships...lets not forget the millions for SW fighters out there.

and the torpedo would need to hit the core...

not to mention

THe torpedo would EASILY hit the core. The torpedo goes through solid matter (similar technology behind the transphasic cloaking device seen in TNG's 7th season episode "Pegasus"). The core is directly in the center of the Death Star, which is a huge target. It would be no issue to fire a spread of them and have one hit the core.

The lesser ships of the Federation's new fleets seem to be the Akira class. With 15 torpedo tubes, they are hardly pushovers. They can really rip Star Destroyers apart with a single transphasic torpedo on the bridge. After all, its explosive force would be far more devastating than the A-Wing crashing through it.

not to mention

[text]

If they stored the torpedoes they can be used when needed like in a war with the Empire, that won't alter any timeline:p

If they stored the torpedoes they can be used when needed like in a war with the Empire, that won't alter any timeline:p

Nemesis takes place 1 year after "Endgame." The more likely scenario is that it wasn't out in the fleet yet. After all, it took the Quantum torpedo 3 years to reach the bulk of the fleet.

70% of the time it's not the Federation shooting....:p

Klingons are lousy shots, either that or the Federation ECM systems are great.