NationStates Jolt Archive

Who's with me? Most of the other states just live off of what we produce anyway. New York shoudl consider it, too.

In fact, the whole "left coast" should seceed. Also, New England should seceed. Then we can have a free trade agreement and diplomatic ties. As for all those stupid people in the Red States in the middle, we'll just look down when we fly over.

Who's with me? Most of the other states just live off of what we produce anyway. New York shoudl consider it, too.

In fact, the whole "left coast" should seceed. Also, New England should seceed. Then we can have a free trade agreement and diplomatic ties. As for all those stupid people in the Red States in the middle, we'll just look down when we fly over.

i promote your idea.

Why not? They're already the "fly over" states. Why not quit pretending?

Who's with me? Most of the other states just live off of what we produce anyway. New York shoudl consider it, too.

In fact, the whole "left coast" should seceed. Also, New England should seceed. Then we can have a free trade agreement and diplomatic ties. As for all those stupid people in the Red States in the middle, we'll just look down when we fly over.

Sure. Then we can all starve together - except for those "stupid people in the Red States."

stop being a prick.

I agree. California should get the heck out of the US.

Sure. Then we can all starve together - except for those "stupid people in the Red States."

CA's the biggest agricultural state in the country. Not only that, but with New York harbor for New England and San Fransisco bay and Long Beach harbor for the West Coast we'll have no problem trading with the rest of the world.

You spin me right round baby right round...looks like our meatspinning friend has been deleted.

Can you take Texas with you? That way we can get rid of the whack-job liberals and the whack-job conservatives?

Who's with me? Most of the other states just live off of what we produce anyway. New York shoudl consider it, too.

In fact, the whole "left coast" should seceed. Also, New England should seceed. Then we can have a free trade agreement and diplomatic ties. As for all those stupid people in the Red States in the middle, we'll just look down when we fly over.

considering the Wheat Belt is not a significant part of your proposed sucession... good luck.

also, if the west and East coast seceeds from the US, each will form their own government. thus you need to only look at the west coast resources.... I think you'll find yourselves properly screwed.

Can you take Texas with you? That way we can get rid of the whack-job liberals and the whack-job conservatives?

Fuck that! That's where all the problems we're running away from cam from in the first place.

Sure. Then we can all starve together - except for those "stupid people in the Red States."

Dude, New England is the seafood capital of the country. One thing's for certain, we won't just starve.

considering the Wheat Belt is not a significant part of your proposed sucession... good luck.

also, if the west and East coast seceeds from the US, each will form their own government. thus you need to only look at the west coast resources.... I think you'll find yourselves properly screwed.

I think you need to do a little research on CA's agriculture. We produce more food than any other state. The CA central valley produces far more food than any other area and, probably most importantly, is watered by a rechargable aquifer, unlike most of the Midwestern agricultural states.

Dude, New England is the seafood capital of the country. One thing's for certain, we won't just starve.

One problem is the fact that all of your coal comes from the Midwest or states like Wyoming; New England gets most of its electricity from coal, so if you guys left the lights might go out fairly quickly.

Dude, New England is the seafood capital of the country. One thing's for certain, we won't just starve.

Atlantic is close to fished-out as is. California's agricultural system is unsustainable. The mid-states are our only reliable food reserve.

CA's the biggest agricultural state in the country. Not only that, but with New York harbor for New England and San Fransisco bay and Long Beach harbor for the West Coast we'll have no problem trading with the rest of the world.

LOL!
Calinfornia may be the largest, but should this secession occure, they will have to provide for those states that don't have production capabililty... New England.

unless, as I said, the west and east form two seperate countries... then the east coast is screwed even more.

and all remaining states combined will out produce your west coast capabilities.... have fun.

So long as you bring Colorado with you, I'm all for it. (I don't want to be left with the red staters. Besides, Colorado is quite purple at the moment and is slowly turning blue.)

Atlantic is close to fished-out as is. California's agricultural system is unsustainable. The mid-states are our only reliable food reserve.

Another problem:
http://www2.nrcan.gc.ca/es/es/energypicture/pdf_images/figure35_e.gif

See where all those dark blue lines are? They're not on the West Coast, which is more dependent than any other region on natural gas for power. Again, if they leave the lights would go out. The two richest parts of the country would be utterly incapacitated because they have to import the basis for their wealth from states like Ohio, Texas, Louisiana, and Iowa.

Atlantic is close to fished-out as is. California's agricultural system is unsustainable. The mid-states are our only reliable food reserve.

Ghengis Khan conquered for less! Who's with me!

Relax...I'm a pacifist.

I think you need to do a little research on CA's agriculture. We produce more food than any other state. The CA central valley produces far more food than any other area and, probably most importantly, is watered by a rechargable aquifer, unlike most of the Midwestern agricultural states.

that's on a per state rating. Should californa leave, then they turn into a country... and thus you combine the rest of the us and then compare it with California.

if Oregon and Washington agrees with this, you can add them... but you will find that the new country of California will not be producing much. the US funds will shift and all the nice things that Californa got will be transferred somewhere else.

If you take Hawaii and Alaska with you. you need to spend resources to support those isolated places as well.

One problem is the fact that all of your coal comes from the Midwest or states like Wyoming; New England gets most of its electricity from coal, so if you guys left the lights might go out fairly quickly.

All those states in teh middle will have to sell something to survive. Most coal states produce nothing else so if they want to live in a field and eat coal...

Can Illinois join...please.. I don't want to move..but i don't want to live in JesUSA. Plus, we'd be like a rift in the middle of the JesUSA, so it'd be easier to invaded them and make them follow our standards of living :)

LOL!
Calinfornia may be the largest, but should this secession occure, they will have to provide for those states that don't have production capabililty... New England.

unless, as I said, the west and east form two seperate countries... then the east coast is screwed even more.

and all remaining states combined will out produce your west coast capabilities.... have fun.

We produce a vast surpolus of food. Food is our number one export. That won't be a problem at all.

that's on a per state rating. Should californa leave, then they turn into a country... and thus you combine the rest of the us and then compare it with California.

if Oregon and Washington agrees with this, you can add them... but you will find that the new country of California will not be producing much. the US funds will shift and all the nice things that Californa got will be transferred somewhere else.

Washington would be more likely to petition for Canadian provincehood than go anywhere with California.

Ghengis Khan conquered for less! Who's with me!

Relax...I'm a pacifist.

It's a good thing for that disclaimer because...

Seceding from someone so you can conquer and reabsord them=?

Fuck that. Why settle for just the blue states? Why leave the liberals living in red territory behind? Finally, why break up the USA? The USA has made tremendous progress towards freedom, equality and justice over the years. It's dumb to give up on it because the country's been on the wrong path lately. Don't abandon the union, work to make it better.

could we take hawaii too? I want a nice vacation place...

as for where New England gets energy...CT is almost all nuclear, MA is building massive wind farms, and we could easily purchase energy from Canada. Food wouldn't be a huge issue with Cali and New England, as well as the invention of hydroponics for many food items, giving the ability to grow crops just about anywhere at decently competitive prices. Not to mention, we CAN trade...

economy, we wouldn't have a problem with CA, NY, and New England

Can Illinois join...please.. I don't want to move..but i don't want to live in JesUSA. Plus, we'd be like a rift in the middle of the JesUSA, so it'd be easier to invaded them and make them follow our standards of living :)

Forcing your values on others, how very conservative of you.

Fuck that. Why settle for just the blue states? Why leave the liberals living in red territory behind? Finally, why break up the USA? The USA has made tremendous progress towards freedom, equality and justice over the years. It's dumb to give up on it because the country's been on the wrong path lately. Don't abandon the union, work to make it better.

fine...New Jersey can come too;)


oh wait...that wasn't your point, was it?

California is the fifth largest economy, and thats just all by our lonesome. We'd let Oregon, Washington and Alaska kick it with us. Hawaii can make its own calls. So we'd have plenty of trading power to fill anything we miss out on from the middle states. Not to mention that they can't afford to just throw a snitt and refuse to trade with the new Free Coastal Republics. They'll need us as trading partners. I was going to say they'll need our sea ports, but they probably already ship most stuff down the Mississippi and out of New Orleans, so this will be good for New Orleans, too, because it will have increased importance. Another win.

Fuck you guys, we're out of here...

that's on a per state rating. Should californa leave, then they turn into a country... and thus you combine the rest of the us and then compare it with California.

if Oregon and Washington agrees with this, you can add them... but you will find that the new country of California will not be producing much. the US funds will shift and all the nice things that Californa got will be transferred somewhere else.

If you take Hawaii and Alaska with you. you need to spend resources to support those isolated places as well.

What are you talking about? California is a doner state. We produce far more goods, services and agriculture than any other state. We pay far more into teh federal coffers than we get out. It's other states, mostly in te Midwest and South that are living off of what we produce, not the other way around.

Forcing your values on others, how very conservative of you.

But these are the good values, so its ok. Plus you could use all the energy we have, not to mention the entire midwest is like corn and soybeans... MMmm food!

All those states in teh middle will have to sell something to survive. Most coal states produce nothing else so if they want to live in a field and eat coal...

But they're with all the states that produce food, goods, and fertilizer; the Rust Belt might be rusted, but it still produces a lot of stuff. I mean, Wyoming isn't particularly fertile but when you combine it with places like Iowa and Ohio or the energy nexus of Louisiana-Texas-Florida, it's pretty darn powerful. Plus, Texas' economy is nothing to sneer at and Florida's coming in at 8% per year...the red states' economy is pretty much competitive with that of New England or California, and has the added advantage of lower costs.

It's like the Cold War all over again...

Atlantic is close to fished-out as is. California's agricultural system is unsustainable. The mid-states are our only reliable food reserve.
You are crazy the only unsustainable thing about Californias agricultural system is that they are building houses all across the San Joaquin valley other then that there is nothing unsustainable about it.

Sure. Then we can all starve together - except for those "stupid people in the Red States."

From from it ... California ranks first in the US for agricultural production.

fine...New Jersey can come too;)


oh wait...that wasn't your point, was it?

I won't settle for a piece of the USA. I want the whole damn thing. plus Canada and Mexico, but we'll get to that later.

We produce a vast surpolus of food. Food is our number one export. That won't be a problem at all.

The California aquifer is draining faster than it's refilling, and you're too reliant on phosphates rather than sustainable crop rotations. Plus, if your population continues to grow at the rate it is currently, you're going to hit a drinkable water crisis in about ten years.

California needs to overhaul it's agricultural system badly (not that they're the only ones, mind you). The current system is aiming for a long-term collapse.

Fuck that. Why settle for just the blue states? Why leave the liberals living in red territory behind? Finally, why break up the USA? The USA has made tremendous progress towards freedom, equality and justice over the years. It's dumb to give up on it because the country's been on the wrong path lately. Don't abandon the union, work to make it better.

I undestand that and this is obviously tongue in cheek, but look what they did! :(

http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/webpics/george_w_bush.jpg

Who's with me? Most of the other states just live off of what we produce anyway. New York shoudl consider it, too.

In fact, the whole "left coast" should seceed. Also, New England should seceed. Then we can have a free trade agreement and diplomatic ties. As for all those stupid people in the Red States in the middle, we'll just look down when we fly over.

Have you ever looked at a map of how people voted county-by-county? Let me guess, you haven't, because if you had, you might not be quite so idiotic as to conclude that everyone in the so-called "Red States" is "stupid."

Speaking as a liberal Midwesterner who is at the very least intelligent enoguh to know how to spell "secede," have fun living without electricity or bread! :p

thats called...illegal

It's a good thing for that disclaimer because...

Seceding from someone so you can conquer and reabsord them=?

We're all just crazy fuckers here. Not to worry sir. Move along.

Another problem:
http://www2.nrcan.gc.ca/es/es/energypicture/pdf_images/figure35_e.gif

See where all those dark blue lines are? They're not on the West Coast, which is more dependent than any other region on natural gas for power. Again, if they leave the lights would go out. The two richest parts of the country would be utterly incapacitated because they have to import the basis for their wealth from states like Ohio, Texas, Louisiana, and Iowa.

Ssssh!

Don't tell them that! You'll make them egotistical!

I undestand that and this is obviously tongue in cheek, but look what they did! :(

http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/webpics/george_w_bush.jpg

Yeah, I know, but we've just got to supervise them better in the future.

What are you talking about? California is a doner state. We produce far more goods, services and agriculture than any other state. We pay far more into teh federal coffers than we get out. It's other states, mostly in te Midwest and South that are living off of what we produce, not the other way around.

A lot of the money that goes to the Midwest/South is in one major category: farm subsidies. California's fortunate to have an agricultural sector that can produce a lot of competitive, high-value foods compared to the depressed prices and oversupply in the grain markets that the Midwest is involved in; the crops they produce are more valuable and have a better supply-demand balance, which means fewer subsidies.

why not just come up with a policy everyone could live with and be a union like was intended, that goes for both Reps and Dems

Trekkers

Who's with me? Most of the other states just live off of what we produce anyway. New York shoudl consider it, too.

In fact, the whole "left coast" should seceed. Also, New England should seceed. Then we can have a free trade agreement and diplomatic ties. As for all those stupid people in the Red States in the middle, we'll just look down when we fly over.


LOL, Free Trade agreement between the bluest of blue regions? Those areas would be an economically depressed protectionist paradise.

The Red States have the fastest growing economies out of the regions you just mentioned. I live in New England, this is not a popular area and it is damn expensive, like California.

Also, Southern California would have to be carved off to join the Red States. They are more conservative than the rest of the "left" coast.

I personally believe in more state autonomy overall. For instance, I personally am uncomfortable with euthanasia but if the voters of Oregon voted for it, they should suffer Federal interference. Or if the voters of Massachusettes want Gay marriage (even though it was a court decision), they should have it but the state of Nevada would not have to recognize it.

oh and the Red States should also try to get the Western Canadian Provinces such as Alberta to join them so they don't have to be pushed around by Ontario anymore.

Why not have a nice little civil war to settle that dispute?

I'm sure the rest of the world would be more than happy to deliver the weapons!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/tombstone.gif_http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/MoneySmiley.gifhttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/money.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/MoneySmiley.gif_http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/tombstone.gif

CA's the biggest agricultural state in the country.

where did you get this info?

I won't settle for a piece of the USA. I want the whole damn thing. plus Canada and Mexico, but we'll get to that later.

but if we take over Canada and Mexico, where will all us college students go to drink legally? A trip to Europe is expensive!


actually, what I actually would support is taking the New England states and joining them into one state...consolidate social, political, and economic power.

Wouldn't hurt to take Boston and unite it with the suburbs like what NYC did with the 5 boroughs...

I undestand that and this is obviously tongue in cheek, but look what they did! :(

http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/webpics/george_w_bush.jpg

W (http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/W)

But they're with all the states that produce food, goods, and fertilizer; the Rust Belt might be rusted, but it still produces a lot of stuff. I mean, Wyoming isn't particularly fertile but when you combine it with places like Iowa and Ohio or the energy nexus of Louisiana-Texas-Florida, it's pretty darn powerful. Plus, Texas' economy is nothing to sneer at and Florida's coming in at 8% per year...the red states' economy is pretty much competitive with that of New England or California, and has the added advantage of lower costs.

It's like the Cold War all over again...

First, we haven't used much of our oil and gas in CA because of all the tree huggers here. Second, What? Red states competitive with CA's economy? You're high! CA by itself has the 8th largest economy in the world!

thats called...illegal

prove it

but if we take over Canada and Mexico, where will all us college students go to drink legally? A trip to Europe is expensive!


actually, what I actually would support is taking the New England states and joining them into one state...consolidate social, political, and economic power.

Wouldn't hurt to take Boston and unite it with the suburbs like what NYC did with the 5 boroughs...

Great. Even fewer electoral votes and senators to represent the correct political viewpoint.

Who's with me?

I've advocated California secession for years. :-)

So long as you bring Colorado with you, I'm all for it. (I don't want to be left with the red staters. Besides, Colorado is quite purple at the moment and is slowly turning blue.)


Colorado has been shifting Red for years now. Even the Democrats from Colorado are more conservative than republicans from new england and the left coast.

First, we haven't used much of our oil and gas in CA because of all the tree huggers here. Second, What? Red states competitive with CA's economy? You're high! CA by itself has the 8th largest economy in the world!

It takes a while to develop the oil and gas...if we cut it immediately, you're going to be in trouble.

California produces 13.1% of the US GDP and Texas+Florida produce 13.4%. The state is huge on its own, but the South and especially the Gulf Coast is an equally huge part of our economy.

where did you get this info?

Three words for you San Joaquin Valley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Joaquin_Valley)

You are crazy the only unsustainable thing about Californias agricultural system is that they are building houses all across the San Joaquin valley other then that there is nothing unsustainable about it.

That is being driven by market prices. If the price for food were to increase faster than the demand for housing, existing cultivated acreage would remain steady.

It is important to keep in mind that advances in agriculture tend to mean we can produce more using less land and water. (The same is kind of true of homes, where the square footage of homes is increasing, but the lot size tends to remain the same.) ;)

It takes a while to develop the oil and gas...if we cut it immediately, you're going to be in trouble.

California produces 13.1% of the US GDP and Texas+Florida produce 13.4%. The state is huge on its own, but the South and especially the Gulf Coast is an equally huge part of our economy.
It all breaks down to earthquakes vs. hurricanes, eh?

Great. Even fewer electoral votes and senators to represent the correct political viewpoint.

wouldn't it remain the same? The only state that is at 3, and therefore, really benefiting from the small state bias, is Vermont...

where did you get this info?

It's just extremely well known.

It all breaks down to earthquakes vs. hurricanes, eh?

Pretty much. Of course, the problem is that neither part of the country can function independent of the other; if one side leaves, they collapse and if the other leaves the side that's left will collapse.

First, we haven't used much of our oil and gas in CA because of all the tree huggers here. Second, What? Red states competitive with CA's economy? You're high! CA by itself has the 8th largest economy in the world!

Did PsychoticDan just call Vetalia high?

That just made my existance. Hahahahaha...

Daemonocracy: I've been living here for six years; you have no idea what you're talking about. But then, considering your general ignorance, that's not surprising.

Did PsychoticDan just call Vetalia high?

That just made my existance. Hahahahaha...

Daemonocracy: I've been living here for six years; you have no idea what you're talking about. But then, considering your general ignorance, that's not surprising.

I always call vetalis high. :) Mostly it's about the amount of oil coming from the Gulf or the viability of algea based ethanol, though. He's alright with it.

Can Illinois join...please.. I don't want to move..but i don't want to live in JesUSA. Plus, we'd be like a rift in the middle of the JesUSA, so it'd be easier to invaded them and make them follow our standards of living :)

whoa there downstater, il ain't joining those upstarts over on the other side of that desolate wasteland. it's gonna be one of the major players in the great lakes bioregional confederation.

wouldn't it remain the same? The only state that is at 3, and therefore, really benefiting from the small state bias, is Vermont...

Well there you go. We lose at least one or two electoral votes and a bunch of senate seats. Next thing you know the congress will pass a law putting Jesus into the constitution and making possesion of "disloyal" publications like The Nation or Mother Jones criminal offenses and the closest thing to porn one will legally be able to buy will be a heavily censored version of the Sears Catalog.

I am already there with you there... back in May 2003 I created 'California and Alaska' which was deleted by mods for my use of explicit content in a roleplay.

I used this back-up I made later on in the same month to continue on my roleplays as California (which was deleted due to inactivity and resurrected later in December of 2003) in a slightly different timeline where California declares independence from the United States of America after which Washington, Oregon, Nevada, Arizona, Alaska and Hawaii joined in to form the Californian Republic on November 19, 1999. On the eve of the 2008 Election, Presidential candidate David G. Maddox vows to bring the 'renegade' states back into the Union by any means necessary.

On October 11, 2011 the United States issues its declaration of war against the Californian Republic, within days of their declaration the Soviet Union, Germany and Great Britain vow support to California against the U.S. Forces in what escalates into the Second U.S. Civil War. Eventually with the aid of the USSR, Germany and Britain the United States is defeated with almost all of its western states in control of California and other states through the remainder of the union being occupied by Soviet, German and British forces.

Inclusion not exclusion is the key. Succession, although tempting considering or current political situation, is not the answer. As Californians, let us lead by example and make our state profitable again. We already have all the tools we need to become our own world power, what we lack is the leadership. Visionaries that shape science, technology, and even agriculture have always been drawn here...let us turn to that advantage and open our minds and ears to those who are willing to propel us to the next level. Wave power, bio-diesel, infrastructure...these are not new ideas, just ignored ones.

But what do I know...I'm just a citizen. I got a few other ideas on my blog (http://www.hossjoe.blogspot.com/)...

Who's with me? Most of the other states just live off of what we produce anyway. New York shoudl consider it, too.

In fact, the whole "left coast" should seceed. Also, New England should seceed. Then we can have a free trade agreement and diplomatic ties. As for all those stupid people in the Red States in the middle, we'll just look down when we fly over.

Well, I'm pretty sure that with that attitude, you don't have to worry about going to far in life.

That's one of the most ridiculous threads of all time. Congratulations.

By the way, I feel it's safe to say, that's not to American. Where are you really from?

Well there you go. We lose at least one or two electoral votes and a bunch of senate seats. Next thing you know the congress will pass a law putting Jesus into the constitution and making possesion of "disloyal" publications like The Nation or Mother Jones criminal offenses and the closest thing to porn one will legally be able to buy will be a heavily censored version of the Sears Catalog.

dear god, no!

*clings to porn stash*

loss of senate seats would be an issue...I hadn't thought of that untill right before I read your post

I always call vetalis high. :) Mostly it's about the amount of oil coming from the Gulf or the viability of algea based ethanol, though. He's alright with it.

I think you called me drunk once too...but that had something to do with my typing, not my ideas. ;)

Well there you go. We lose at least one or two electoral votes and a bunch of senate seats. Next thing you know the congress will pass a law putting Jesus into the constitution and making possesion of "disloyal" publications like The Nation or Mother Jones criminal offenses and the closest thing to porn one will legally be able to buy will be a heavily censored version of the Sears Catalog.

Okay, fine. We'll stay, but to all of you Red State:

That's very bad! You were very very bad! Now I want you all to go to your room and think about what you've done! That's a very bad red state! :mad:

*spanks*

Now you go to your room and don't come out until afteer the next presidential election! And be sure to think good and hard about what you've done!

http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/webpics/george_w_bush.jpg

And that especially goes for you, Mr. Texas! :mad:

Well, I'm pretty sure that with that attitude, you don't have to worry about going to far in life. I'm actually doing quite well, thank you! ;)

That's one of the most ridiculous threads of all time. Congratulations.

By the way, I feel it's safe to say, that's not to American. Where are you really from?

I'm from teh part of America where we, for the most part, weren't stupid enough to give our support to the worst president in the history of the US. :D

There is one very overlooked problem with this plan. The Lex Luthor Seafront Property Agenda. Ripped from the plotlines of Superman: The Movie.

If the West Coast secedes, then there will be no economic incentive to not send California into the ocean. A couple of nukes, and the San Andreas fault line, and presto, that state becomes Atlantis. Or Pacificus, if you want to be technical. But the rest of the U.S. will not tolerate the loss of a very valuable seaboard. If necessary, they'll make one, and cause the opposition to pay dearly for it.

Daemonocracy: I've been living here for six years; you have no idea what you're talking about. But then, considering your general ignorance, that's not surprising.

Well you either need to get out more, or you need to quit lying to yourself you idiot.

Senator Wayne Allard is a Republican.

Governor Bill Owens is a Republican.

Senator Ken Salazar is a moderate/conservative Democrat who narrowly defeated Republican challenger Peter Coors. The only reason he won was because he linked Coors to the beer commercials his company ran that showed scantily clad women. This offended the conservative morals of the Colorado population.

Colorado has voted Republican in the Presidential election for decades except for Bill Clinton in 1992. They voted for George W Bush twice and even voted for Bob Dole.

Colorado is one of the top states for California and Northeast Republicans fleeing high taxes and costs of living.

The name "Colorado" even means "reddish" in Spanish.

I realize people like you see the world as you want to see it and not for how it actually is, but it is no excuse for your self inflicted ignorance.


Edit> oh and one more tid bit on Salazar. During his campaign he repeatedly proclaimed to be "personally pro-life". Only in a red state would a candidate publicly utter the words pro and life together.

but if you don't like the reality, you can always just attack me.

I think you called me drunk once too...but that had something to do with my typing, not my ideas. ;)

It's still funny, because I respect both of you for your normally sensible and intelligent debating styles. Hence why, whenever you do something like call the other high, it's funny.

Well you either need to get out more, or you need to quit lying to yourself you idiot.

Senator Wayne Allard is a Republican.

Governor Bill Owens is a Republican.

Senator Ken Salazar is a moderate/conservative Democrat who narrowly defeated Republican challenger Peter Coors. The only reason he won was because he linked Coors to the beer commercials his company ran that showed scantily clad women. This offended the conservative morals of the Colorado population.

Colorado has voted Republican in the Presidential election for decades except for Bill Clinton in 1992. They voted for George W Bush twice and even voted for Bob Dole.

Colorado is one of the top states for California and Northeast Republicans fleeing high taxes and costs of living.

The name "Colorado" even means "reddish" in Spanish.

I realize people like you see the world as you want to see it and not for how it actually is, but it is no excuse for your self inflicted ignorance.
And I'm telling you, I live here. You need to look at local politics. Fact is, this is a purple state.

because I respect both of you for your normally sensible and intelligent debating styles.*snip*
Now you're freaking high! :mad:

And I'm telling you, I live here. You need to look at local politics. Fact is, this is a purple state.


Maybe in Denver, Boulder or Pueblo.

And if Colorado is "purple" it is certainly not trending blue. Even if the National Republicans are doing a piss poor job these days.

New Mexico is a purple state. New Hampshire is a purple state. Iowa is a purple state. Colorado is not in the same league as these guys.

Maybe in Denver, Boulder or Pueblo.

And if Colorado is "purple" it is certainly not trending blue. Even if the National Republicans are doing a piss poor job these days.

New Mexico is a purple state. New Hampshire is a purple state. Iowa is a purple state. Colorado is not in the same league as these guys.
We shall see.

(To be perfectly honest, I'd rather the state go yellow or green or some other color not associated with Democrats or Republicans. However, I do like the color blue better than red, so I'd be happy with that.)

While the Blue states are seceding, I'll quietly take my own chunk out of the Union and make my own country, free of pseudo-capitalism/socialism and autocratic judiciary and make my own free-market paradise.

Edit: Then we'll buy out all the assets of the other states and effectively make you all work for us. :D

A lot of the money that goes to the Midwest/South is in one major category: farm subsidies. California's fortunate to have an agricultural sector that can produce a lot of competitive, high-value foods compared to the depressed prices and oversupply in the grain markets that the Midwest is involved in; the crops they produce are more valuable and have a better supply-demand balance, which means fewer subsidies.

Here is a USDA report confirming CA top in US agriculutural production:
http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/fau/june06/fau11401/fau11401.pdf

California remained the top exporting State in fiscal 2005, far surpassing all others; its $10.2 billion of agricultural exports is up 7 percent, or $680 million, from 2004. California accounts for 16 percent of the total value of all U.S. agricultural exports. The State leads the country in exports of vegetables and preparations, fruits and preparations, tree nuts, dairy products, planting seeds, and “other products.” California’s exports of each of these commodities are 2-3 times higher than the next closest State.

Here is a USDA report confirming CA top in US agriculutural production:
http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/fau/june06/fau11401/fau11401.pdf

BAM!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! In your FACE red states!!!!!!!!!! Hahahaha


baboom, baboom all over the room! :D

CA OWNES!!!!!!!!! BABAYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bush is an idiot. I got some chain mail as proof with his pictures in his most disgraceful moments^^

I hereby invite all west coast states to join British Columbia. If the Harper government goes on much longer, BC'll become a seperate nation.

I hereby invite all west coast states to join British Columbia. If the Harper government goes on much longer, BC'll become a seperate nation.

Bitchen. We got food, warm water ports and hot chicks in bikinis. You got oil and lots of pot.

If california leaves the union, it wont be because it succeeded. it will be because all the other states chased it out with torches and pitchforks.

california does not supply everything the union needs as your op made it sound like you think. california can disappear and the united states will be fine.

If california leaves the union, it wont be because it succeeded. it will be because all the other states chased it out with torches and pitchforks.

california does not supply everything the union needs as your op made it sound like you think. california can disappear and the united states will be fine.

Good. Then it's win-win. If we want to get the hell away from the rest of you, and you just want us to go away, then I don't see the problem.

If california leaves the union, it wont be because it succeeded. it will be because all the other states chased it out with torches and pitchforks.

california does not supply everything the union needs as your op made it sound like you think. california can disappear and the united states will be fine.

You should look at the balance on the federal tax sheets. ;) Also, as posted earlier:

California remained the top exporting State in fiscal 2005, far surpassing all others; its $10.2 billion of agricultural exports is up 7 percent, or $680 million, from 2004. California accounts for 16 percent of the total value of all U.S. agricultural exports. The State leads the country in exports of vegetables and preparations, fruits and preparations, tree nuts, dairy products, planting seeds, and “other products.” California’s exports of each of these commodities are 2-3 times higher than the next closest State.

This happens every time seccession is discussed

secede
–verb (used without object), -ced‧ed, -ced‧ing.
to withdraw formally from an alliance, federation, or association, as from a political union, a religious organization, etc.

succeed 
–verb (used without object)
1. to happen or terminate according to desire; turn out successfully; have the desired result: Our efforts succeeded.
2. to thrive, prosper, grow, or the like: Grass will not succeed in this dry soil.
3. to accomplish what is attempted or intended: We succeeded in our efforts to start the car.
4. to attain success in some popularly recognized form, as wealth or standing: The class voted him the one most likely to succeed.
5. to follow or replace another by descent, election, appointment, etc. (often fol. by to).
6. to come next after something else in an order or series.
–verb (used with object)
7. to come after and take the place of, as in an office or estate.
8. to come next after in an order or series, or in the course of events; follow.

[/GRAMMARNAZI}

One problem is the fact that all of your coal comes from the Midwest or states like Wyoming; New England gets most of its electricity from coal, so if you guys left the lights might go out fairly quickly.
Canada has tons of coal. :D

http://www.coal.ca/content/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=9&Itemid=55

I am sure that we could sell a few tons to CA, and NE?

This happens every time seccession is discussed

secede
–verb (used without object), -ced‧ed, -ced‧ing.
to withdraw formally from an alliance, federation, or association, as from a political union, a religious organization, etc.

succeed 
–verb (used without object)
1. to happen or terminate according to desire; turn out successfully; have the desired result: Our efforts succeeded.
2. to thrive, prosper, grow, or the like: Grass will not succeed in this dry soil.
3. to accomplish what is attempted or intended: We succeeded in our efforts to start the car.
4. to attain success in some popularly recognized form, as wealth or standing: The class voted him the one most likely to succeed.
5. to follow or replace another by descent, election, appointment, etc. (often fol. by to).
6. to come next after something else in an order or series.
–verb (used with object)
7. to come after and take the place of, as in an office or estate.
8. to come next after in an order or series, or in the course of events; follow.

[/GRAMMARNAZI}

I wrote Seceed not succeed. The misplaced e was a type. Just like when I type teh.

This happens every time secession is discussed

(snip)

[/GRAMMARNAZI}

Edited for spelling. [/SPELLINGNAZI]

Bitchen. We got food, warm water ports and hot chicks in bikinis. You got oil and lots of pot.

Hey there are also hot chicks in BC!
Terrorist Cakes is a prime example. :D

Nope, California can't leave. What would we do for entertainment in Nevada if they left?

Nope, California can't leave. What would we do for entertainment in Nevada if they left?

Two words: Wayne Newton :D

Nah, we like you Californians, even if the it costs way too fucking much to live there, we like you.

Two words: Wayne Newton :D
Oh sure, that's ONE night taken care of. But watching California be silly can keep us going for months! ;)

I wrote Seceed not succeed. The misplaced e was a type. Just like when I type teh.

Yes you did, but several other people were using the word "succeed".

Edited for spelling. [/SPELLINGNAZI]

Damn!

Oh sure, that's ONE night taken care of. But watching California be silly can keep us going for months! ;)

:) Well, it's not like we're going to the liquor store and not coming back. We'll still be in viewing range next door.

Plus, now the 4 hour trip fom LA to Vegas will be an international trip, with passports and everything. Y'all can set up duty frees and gouge us even more! Win-win! ;)

That would be retarded. Bush would just go in and take them back. As retarded as he is, he knows enough not to let them secede. And besides, I'm in one of those fly-over states. Assholes.

Sigh...I'm tired of this.

Yes, it would be nice if California left the United States--for the residents of the other 49 still-United States. I am VERY sick and tired of hearing California residents whine and complain about how bad America is. Just because their state is so f---ed up doesn't mean everybody else's is. Yes, they produce a lot of agriculture, and yes, a lot of America's trade goes through California. But if California were to suddenly up and leave the union, both California and the U.S. would find ways to cope and survive.

By the way, we "stupid people in red states in the middle" are not stupid people. Though this is derogatively referred to as "flyover country," that's a damn shame because "flyover country" has some of the prettiest scenery, best weather, healthiest people, and--let's not forget--most robust economies (on a per capita basis) of all the states. I would rather live here in Colorado, where we get 300+ days of sunshine a year and have fewer obese people than any other state in the union, and suffer the whinings of East- and West-coast elitists, than actually LIVE where either things are so miserable that everyone wishes they were dead (the East Coast) or where everybody is so self-absorbed that they wish everyone ELSE was dead (the West Coast).

Plus, scads of Californians come to Colorado for vacation every winter, and, unfortunately, a lot of them never leave (gee, I wonder why--maybe because LIFE IS BETTER HERE!). I must say, it would make life a lot better for native Coloradans if Californians needed a passport to get in.

Damn Californians--the only good things about their state are Stanford University and, in general, their weather (which is actually better here). Even the girls are hotter in Colorado.

(snip)

Soooo, to sum up: California can't secede because Colorado is better than California. :sigh: :rolleyes:

Let California leave. All I know is is that Nevada isn't going with them. Come on. Bush okayed a plan to dump nuclear waste here in Nevada and we still gave our electoral votes to him. That's how red we pretty much are.

Leftyland gets California. Here in red country aka Jesusland, we get Las Vegas. Don't think of attacking this city either because we have Nellis Air Force Base here. We can hold our own until reinforcements arive.

I'm tired of hearing about California. Yes, it has stars. So what? So does Las Vegas. Sure, they have Disneyland. So what? We have enough strippers to make up for that.

I find it interesting that (based on this forum) the first thoughts of most Americans turn to trying to think of ways to starve the Secessionists into obediance. Did the thought of accepting the Coasts' independence and trading with them occur to anybody, or does any questioning of central authority need to be met with death?

I think it really just comes down to one question: If it is no longer in the best interests of the people of California to remain a part of the United States, and if one of the founding principles of the United States is the necessity of distancing yourself from what you see as an insupportable and oppressive form of government, then why should California be forced to stay in the Union?

Finally! I thought you guys would never leave. You have fun under your own government with your real California cheese that happens to be a source of great amusement for Wisonsinites around here.

. . .Now to be serious, I agree with CO Springs School. You have no idea how much you're missing by sterotyping the Midwest as 'fly-over states'. Sometime when you're flying over, stop in. You'll be shocked. As to the remark on our intelligence, that's being just plain stupid yourself.

I find it inetresting that (based on this forum) the first thoughts of most Americans turn to trying to think of ways to starve the Secessionists into obediance. Did the thought of accepting the Coasts' independence and trading with them occur to anybody, or does any questioning of central authority need to be met with death?

you sure? Their whole premise is that they can live without the US. that means, no trade, no support whatsoever.

I bet you, after a couple of years, Nevada and the west most states would be flooded with Illegal West Coasters, coming in to look for jobs and a better life.

Sigh...I'm tired of this.

Yes, it would be nice if California left the United States--for the residents of the other 49 still-United States. I am VERY sick and tired of hearing California residents whine and complain about how bad America is. Just because their state is so f---ed up doesn't mean everybody else's is. Yes, they produce a lot of agriculture, and yes, a lot of America's trade goes through California. But if California were to suddenly up and leave the union, both California and the U.S. would find ways to cope and survive.

By the way, we "stupid people in red states in the middle" are not stupid people. Though this is derogatively referred to as "flyover country," that's a damn shame because "flyover country" has some of the prettiest scenery, best weather, healthiest people, and--let's not forget--most robust economies (on a per capita basis) of all the states. I would rather live here in Colorado, where we get 300+ days of sunshine a year and have fewer obese people than any other state in the union, and suffer the whinings of East- and West-coast elitists, than actually LIVE where either things are so miserable that everyone wishes they were dead (the East Coast) or where everybody is so self-absorbed that they wish everyone ELSE was dead (the West Coast).

Plus, scads of Californians come to Colorado for vacation every winter, and, unfortunately, a lot of them never leave (gee, I wonder why--maybe because LIFE IS BETTER HERE!). I must say, it would make life a lot better for native Coloradans if Californians needed a passport to get in.

Damn Californians--the only good things about their state are Stanford University and, in general, their weather (which is actually better here). Even the girls are hotter in Colorado.
I guess there are healthy people in California too?

U.S. Life Expectancy Gap Widens (http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=514190)

According to the study, the “healthiest” states include California, Colorado, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Minnesota, North Dakota, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Washington, which have combined male-female life expectancies above 78 years, which is the European average. Washington D.C. is the unhealthiest place to live, with a combined life expectancy of 72 years, on par with the Gaza Strip.

Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, and South Carolina, all have combined life expectancies under 75 years—lower than Mexico and Saudi Arabia.

you sure? Their whole premise is that they can live without the US. that means, no trade, no support whatsoever.

I bet you, after a couple of years, Nevada and the west most states would be flooded with Illegal West Coasters, coming in to look for jobs and a better life.

nah, the fence'll take care of that.

and California can't secede, since unlike us pansies in Canada, secession is called "treason", and will end up with the National Guard storming the state legislature.

Sigh...I'm tired of this.

Yes, it would be nice if California left the United States--for the residents of the other 49 still-United States. I am VERY sick and tired of hearing California residents whine and complain about how bad America is. Just because their state is so f---ed up doesn't mean everybody else's is. Yes, they produce a lot of agriculture, and yes, a lot of America's trade goes through California. But if California were to suddenly up and leave the union, both California and the U.S. would find ways to cope and survive.

By the way, we "stupid people in red states in the middle" are not stupid people. Though this is derogatively referred to as "flyover country," that's a damn shame because "flyover country" has some of the prettiest scenery, best weather, healthiest people, and--let's not forget--most robust economies (on a per capita basis) of all the states. I would rather live here in Colorado, where we get 300+ days of sunshine a year and have fewer obese people than any other state in the union, and suffer the whinings of East- and West-coast elitists, than actually LIVE where either things are so miserable that everyone wishes they were dead (the East Coast) or where everybody is so self-absorbed that they wish everyone ELSE was dead (the West Coast).

Plus, scads of Californians come to Colorado for vacation every winter, and, unfortunately, a lot of them never leave (gee, I wonder why--maybe because LIFE IS BETTER HERE!). I must say, it would make life a lot better for native Coloradans if Californians needed a passport to get in.

Damn Californians--the only good things about their state are Stanford University and, in general, their weather (which is actually better here). Even the girls are hotter in Colorado.
So it is bad for East Coasters and West Coasters to think of the midwest as flyover country (which, by the way, doesn't include Colorado. It includes states like the Dakotas, Nebraska, et. al.) but it is okay for you to asume that all people on the east coast are miserable, and all west coasters are self-absorbed?

I'll take my hypocricy with a side of fries, please.

nah, the fence'll take care of that.

and California can't secede, since unlike us pansies in Canada, secession is called "treason", and will end up with the National Guard storming the state legislature.

Secession shouldn't be treason. It definately should not be treason.

Salmon Chase wrote the majority decision of Texas v. White in 1869 under pressure from reconstructionists, and its legal basis is shaky at best. It's itching to be overturned.

Canada has tons of coal. :D

http://www.coal.ca/content/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=9&Itemid=55

I am sure that we could sell a few tons to CA, and NE?

You could, but why risk pissing off your biggest oil customer? After all, it's the reds that have the refining and distribution systems.

So it is bad for East Coasters and West Coasters to think of the midwest as flyover country (which, by the way, doesn't include Colorado. It includes states like the Dakotas, Nebraska, et. al.) but it is okay for you to asume that all people on the east coast are miserable, and all west coasters are self-absorbed?

I'll take my hypocricy with a side of fries, please.


hypocrisy? He is defending himself and his state pointing out the flaws he sees and with a biting wit i might add. Would you suggest he just sits there and takes the abuse? I feel he has a right to defend himself and dish out as good as he gets.

:rolleyes:

That's all I have to say.

:rolleyes:

That's all I have to say.

What do you expect? This is the internets, after all.

The Confedracy should reform and sucseed.


Texas could succsesfully sucseed on its own I believe too.

Finally! I thought you guys would never leave. You have fun under your own government with your real California cheese that happens to be a source of great amusement for Wisonsinites around here.

. . .Now to be serious, I agree with CO Springs School. You have no idea how much you're missing by sterotyping the Midwest as 'fly-over states'. Sometime when you're flying over, stop in. You'll be shocked. As to the remark on our intelligence, that's being just plain stupid yourself.

Thats true, Wisconsin has a WAY better education system than shity cali could ever have. And, while talking about Cali, it sucks, I've been there and live in the midwest, ppl out there a fucking retarded, and the cities suck, esspecaily LA. Talk about smog, you cant even see anything, and traffic never gets above 30mph.

I find it interesting that (based on this forum) the first thoughts of most Americans turn to trying to think of ways to starve the Secessionists into obediance. Did the thought of accepting the Coasts' independence and trading with them occur to anybody, or does any questioning of central authority need to be met with death?

So you agreed with the Confederacy when they wished to secede? That damn war of Northern Aggression!

Oh and BTW, with out the midwest, America would crumble, and without OUR support, cali would collapse under its own regime and be begging America to take it back, they are far far far from self sufficant. They'd probably end up being re-conquerd by mexico again, if they havent been already.

The idea has been tried before. It didn't work and ended up being quite costly. No thanks.


How about this though? What if we just decide to kick states that we don't like out? Sort of like a "you have been ejected from the club" type thing.

So you agreed with the Confederacy when they wished to secede? That damn war of Northern Aggression!

The Confederacy attacked the North first.

Oh and BTW, with out the midwest, America would crumble, and without OUR support, cali would collapse under its own regime and be begging America to take it back, they are far far far from self sufficant. They'd probably end up being re-conquerd by mexico again, if they havent been already.

We contribute a lot more than the midwest does to the economy.

Also, the abbreviation for California is CA, not "cali"

We contribute a lot more than the midwest does to the economy.

Also, the abbreviation for California is CA, not "cali"

I'll call it whatever I want I know for a fact that people say cali, and no, you dont, thats a lie. And where you do you think your going to get your alcohol from after you bar us away? thats right ahahahahah! thats one thing your F*ked on.

I'll call it whatever I want I know for a fact that people say cali, and no, you dont, thats a lie. And where you do you think your going to get your alcohol from after you bar us away? thats right ahahahahah! thats one thing your F*ked on.

I think you missed the post in which a link was given proving the opposite.

I'll call it whatever I want I know for a fact that people say cali, and no, you dont, thats a lie. And where you do you think your going to get your alcohol from after you bar us away? thats right ahahahahah! thats one thing your F*ked on.

I don't know why people use the term, it's easier just to type ca, which is the official abbreviation.

And yes, we do. We are a donor state. Most jesusland states are benifciary states.

And where do we get our alcohol from? California produces most of the US's wine, smartass.

Two words: international trade.

The Confederacy attacked the North first.


uhh yeah after the Union started mobilizing their army. The first shot of the war was actually at a supply ship for the Union army.

South Carolina Seceded. The North Mobilized. Lincoln wanted to save the Union.

and if California did secede, the Red States could do what mexico does and dump all the migrant workers into California. California politicians seem to welcome illegals as it is, so the more the merrier.

hypocrisy? He is defending himself and his state pointing out the flaws he sees and with a biting wit i might add. Would you suggest he just sits there and takes the abuse? I feel he has a right to defend himself and dish out as good as he gets.

If you are going to claim that people shouldn't make that kind of claim against your state, what gives you the right to make the same kind of claims against their states?

He has a right to do whatever the hell he wants. But it is still hypocracy, and is about as intelligent, witty, and effective as saying "I told you to stop calling me names, you asshole". It would have been more effective to display how they were wrong (even though they wern't attacking Colorado, as Colorado isn't generally considered "fly over country"), and leave it at that, rather than stating that everyone on either coast hates their lives.

Let's see here. . .

US Civil War: North said that the Union was perpetual and that while States did have rights secession was not among them. The South thought otherwise (and that States had the right to nullify any laws that they didn't like). One war later, the North firmly established its view. Freeing the slaves? A byproduct that got overexposure because of political pressure on Lincoln to do so.

New England: Do not ever lump New Hampshire's politics into the rest of the region. Ever. Just because they vote Democrat does not make them Liberal in the modern sense. They are Liberal in the classical sense. New Hampshire would not secede, would mobilze the militia to defend the borders while sending the National Guard to punch a hole through Vermont to link up with Upstate New York which is very conservative. Then sit back and watch as the US Navy blows up Boston, which the New Englanders would most assuradly make thier capital (a very stupid move to have your capital bordering the ocean).

California: Good luck getting the counties bordering Oregon to join. They're conservative and would undoubtly fight. Then see New England for the results when LA is made the capital.

In conclusion, the only way secession is ever going to be attempted again is if the country itself gets destroyed. And if that happens, no state will be in any condition to do anything.

If you are going to claim that people shouldn't make that kind of claim against your state, what gives you the right to make the same kind of claims against their states?

He has a right to do whatever the hell he wants. But it is still hypocracy, and is about as intelligent, witty, and effective as saying "I told you to stop calling me names, you asshole". It would have been more effective to display how they were wrong (even though they wern't attacking Colorado, as Colorado isn't generally considered "fly over country"), and leave it at that, rather than stating that everyone on either coast hates their lives.


Whose lives? Ours? Or those of those landlubber Coloradons?

Let's see here. . .

US Civil War: North said that the Union was perpetual and that while States did have rights secession was not among them. The South thought otherwise (and that States had the right to nullify any laws that they didn't like). One war later, the North firmly established its view. Freeing the slaves? A byproduct that got overexposure because of political pressure on Lincoln to do so.

New England: Do not ever lump New Hampshire's politics into the rest of the region. Ever. Just because they vote Democrat does not make them Liberal in the modern sense. They are Liberal in the classical sense. New Hampshire would not secede, would mobilze the militia to defend the borders while sending the National Guard to punch a hole through Vermont to link up with Upstate New York which is very conservative. Then sit back and watch as the US Navy blows up Boston, which the New Englanders would most assuradly make thier capital (a very stupid move to have your capital bordering the ocean).

California: Good luck getting the counties bordering Oregon to join. They're conservative and would undoubtly fight. Then see New England for the results when LA is made the capital.

In conclusion, the only way secession is ever going to be attempted again is if the country itself gets destroyed. And if that happens, no state will be in any condition to do anything.
you realize that nearly every major city, and many national capitals are boardering the ocean, yes? It is kind of essential to economic feasability of a large city.

Whose lives? Ours? Or those of those landlubber Coloradons?

ours.

If you are going to claim that people shouldn't make that kind of claim against your state, what gives you the right to make the same kind of claims against their states?

He has a right to do whatever the hell he wants. But it is still hypocracy, and is about as intelligent, witty, and effective as saying "I told you to stop calling me names, you asshole". It would have been more effective to display how they were wrong (even though they wern't attacking Colorado, as Colorado isn't generally considered "fly over country"), and leave it at that, rather than stating that everyone on either coast hates their lives.

I understand that and you make a valid point, but i see it from the perspective of, if someone hits you, you hit them back.

Let's see here. . .

US Civil War: North said that the Union was perpetual and that while States did have rights secession was not among them. The South thought otherwise (and that States had the right to nullify any laws that they didn't like). One war later, the North firmly established its view. Freeing the slaves? A byproduct that got overexposure because of political pressure on Lincoln to do so.

New England: Do not ever lump New Hampshire's politics into the rest of the region. Ever. Just because they vote Democrat does not make them Liberal in the modern sense. They are Liberal in the classical sense. New Hampshire would not secede, would mobilze the militia to defend the borders while sending the National Guard to punch a hole through Vermont to link up with Upstate New York which is very conservative. Then sit back and watch as the US Navy blows up Boston, which the New Englanders would most assuradly make thier capital (a very stupid move to have your capital bordering the ocean).

California: Good luck getting the counties bordering Oregon to join. They're conservative and would undoubtly fight. Then see New England for the results when LA is made the capital.

In conclusion, the only way secession is ever going to be attempted again is if the country itself gets destroyed. And if that happens, no state will be in any condition to do anything.



Why would LA be the capital? A lot of northern Californians really resent LA.

Let's see here. . .

US Civil War: North said that the Union was perpetual and that while States did have rights secession was not among them. The South thought otherwise (and that States had the right to nullify any laws that they didn't like). One war later, the North firmly established its view. Freeing the slaves? A byproduct that got overexposure because of political pressure on Lincoln to do so.

New England: Do not ever lump New Hampshire's politics into the rest of the region. Ever. Just because they vote Democrat does not make them Liberal in the modern sense. They are Liberal in the classical sense. New Hampshire would not secede, would mobilze the militia to defend the borders while sending the National Guard to punch a hole through Vermont to link up with Upstate New York which is very conservative. Then sit back and watch as the US Navy blows up Boston, which the New Englanders would most assuradly make thier capital (a very stupid move to have your capital bordering the ocean).

California: Good luck getting the counties bordering Oregon to join. They're conservative and would undoubtly fight. Then see New England for the results when LA is made the capital.

In conclusion, the only way secession is ever going to be attempted again is if the country itself gets destroyed. And if that happens, no state will be in any condition to do anything.


LOL, I would love to read a book about this scenario. well said. lol :D

Why would LA be the capital? A lot of northern Californians really resent LA.

This is why southern CA, from LA on down will join the Reds.

This is why southern CA, from LA on down will join the Reds.

I've always thought they should be two separate states. With the border drawn at Monterey, or maybe San Luis Obisbo.

Let's see here. . .

US Civil War: North said that the Union was perpetual and that while States did have rights secession was not among them. The South thought otherwise (and that States had the right to nullify any laws that they didn't like). One war later, the North firmly established its view. Freeing the slaves? A byproduct that got overexposure because of political pressure on Lincoln to do so.

New England: Do not ever lump New Hampshire's politics into the rest of the region. Ever. Just because they vote Democrat does not make them Liberal in the modern sense. They are Liberal in the classical sense. New Hampshire would not secede, would mobilze the militia to defend the borders while sending the National Guard to punch a hole through Vermont to link up with Upstate New York which is very conservative. Then sit back and watch as the US Navy blows up Boston, which the New Englanders would most assuradly make thier capital (a very stupid move to have your capital bordering the ocean).

California: Good luck getting the counties bordering Oregon to join. They're conservative and would undoubtly fight. Then see New England for the results when LA is made the capital.

In conclusion, the only way secession is ever going to be attempted again is if the country itself gets destroyed. And if that happens, no state will be in any condition to do anything.

If the national guard or the military would attack their former fellow people for seceding and forming a self-governing state because they do not agree with the government, then I do not want to live in the United States.

This is why southern CA, from LA on down will join the Reds.

I'm not sure that LA is made of communists...

I'm not sure that LA is made of communists...

True, Berkeley is much more commie than LA. LA is quite capitalist.

If the national guard or the military would attack their former fellow people for seceding and forming a self-governing state because they do not agree with the government, then I do not want to live in the United States.

Sadly, it seems that a number of people, at least on here, would do exactly that.

Let's hope that the average American is more civlized.

True, Berkeley is much more commie than LA. LA is quite capitalist.

I consider myself socialist.

I consider myself socialist.

Most rightwingnuts unfortunately don't see any difference.

So you agreed with the Confederacy when they wished to secede? That damn war of Northern Aggression!

Yes, as a matter of fact. I disagree with the practice of slavery, but there was more to the Civil War than the issue of slavery. Washington consistantly and intentionally malgoverned the Southern states, those states voted to voice their will to become independent, they were ignored, they voiced it again and they were attacked.

It was indeed a war of 'Northern Aggression', the fact is that the legitimate state governments had legitimately decided they did not want to be run by a capital that repititively and maliciously went against their will. Its like the War of Independence, but this time the Yankies play Evil Empire and end up winning.

If the national guard or the military would attack their former fellow people for seceding and forming a self-governing state because they do not agree with the government, then I do not want to live in the United States.

You're about a hundred and fourty years too late to change that notion.

Northern CA did try to secede along with the neighboring counties in Oregon to form the state of Jefferson. They announced this by blocking all the roads for a day and would continue to do so until they were given what they wanted or their issues were addressed.

The next week, Japan bombed Pearl Harbor and there were more important matters at hand.

You're about a hundred and fourty years too late to change that notion.

You're not trying to say that things can't change in 140 years are you?

You're about a hundred and fourty years too late to change that notion.

Northern CA did try to secede along with the neighboring counties in Oregon to form the state of Jefferson. They announced this by blocking all the roads for a day and would continue to do so until they were given what they wanted or their issues were addressed.

The next week, Japan bombed Pearl Harbor and there were more important matters at hand.

The term "Northern California" generally is used to mean that which is north of about Monterey or San Luis Obisbo. Not just the far northern counties.

Sigh...I'm tired of this.

Yes, it would be nice if California left the United States--for the residents of the other 49 still-United States. I am VERY sick and tired of hearing California residents whine and complain about how bad America is. Just because their state is so f---ed up doesn't mean everybody else's is. Yes, they produce a lot of agriculture, and yes, a lot of America's trade goes through California. But if California were to suddenly up and leave the union, both California and the U.S. would find ways to cope and survive.

By the way, we "stupid people in red states in the middle" are not stupid people. Though this is derogatively referred to as "flyover country," that's a damn shame because "flyover country" has some of the prettiest scenery, best weather, healthiest people, and--let's not forget--most robust economies (on a per capita basis) of all the states. I would rather live here in Colorado, where we get 300+ days of sunshine a year and have fewer obese people than any other state in the union, and suffer the whinings of East- and West-coast elitists, than actually LIVE where either things are so miserable that everyone wishes they were dead (the East Coast) or where everybody is so self-absorbed that they wish everyone ELSE was dead (the West Coast).

Plus, scads of Californians come to Colorado for vacation every winter, and, unfortunately, a lot of them never leave (gee, I wonder why--maybe because LIFE IS BETTER HERE!). I must say, it would make life a lot better for native Coloradans if Californians needed a passport to get in.

Damn Californians--the only good things about their state are Stanford University and, in general, their weather (which is actually better here). Even the girls are hotter in Colorado.

Colorado sucks. :)

Finally! I thought you guys would never leave. You have fun under your own government with your real California cheese that happens to be a source of great amusement for Wisonsinites around here.

. . .Now to be serious, I agree with CO Springs School. You have no idea how much you're missing by sterotyping the Midwest as 'fly-over states'. Sometime when you're flying over, stop in. You'll be shocked. As to the remark on our intelligence, that's being just plain stupid yourself.

Hey. Whatever. You're the ones who voted for the moron who's destroying our country. There's no reason i can see to go down with the ship.

You're about a hundred and fourty years too late to change that notion.

Northern CA did try to secede along with the neighboring counties in Oregon to form the state of Jefferson. They announced this by blocking all the roads for a day and would continue to do so until they were given what they wanted or their issues were addressed.

The next week, Japan bombed Pearl Harbor and there were more important matters at hand.

I have no idea how that makes people... well, what I said before.

Hey. Whatever. You're the ones who voted for the moron who's destroying our country. There's no reason i can see to go down with the ship.

You know Wisconsin went for Kerry, right? As did Michigan, Minnesota, and Illinois.

Finally! I thought you guys would never leave. You have fun under your own government with your real California cheese that happens to be a source of great amusement for Wisonsinites around here.

You Wisconsinites are going to have to suck on it because California will soon be the biggest cheese producer (http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/index.php?ntid=101959&ntpid=2) in the Nation we already took 1 milk producer 10 years ago.

You Wisconsinites are going to have to suck on it because California will soon be the biggest cheese producer (http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/index.php?ntid=101959&ntpid=2) in the Nation we already took 1 milk producer 10 years ago.

Aren't you proud of yourselves and your happy cows?

Colorado sucks. :)

Hella sucks.

Something a Nor-Cal and So-Cal guy can agree on.

Look, I understand that you are unhappy with the administration, I am disappointed as it stands, and I hated previous administrations, but you cannot be serious. I imagine this was started as a joke, but it seems some actually believe in this, that is UNAMERICAN, plain and simple. If you hate a president either a. dont vote for him and its not your fault, or b. wait until two terms are up and elect someone you think is qualified. Suggesting secession, good idea, lets start a new civil war, and remember those "fly over states" have more guns.
*Also to discriminate against any one state, what the hell is wrong with you. We are all Americans, I can't believe that people died so we can decide to secced when we run into a little trouble. I am ashamed of you people, you should be ashamed of yourselves. And California with the world's #5 economy, try sustaining yourself without the rest of the country providing food for your growing population and funding for your deteriorating infastructures. No American would ever recommend secession, though I suppose that is a moot point because you dont want to be an American anyways.

Whose lives? Ours? Or those of those landlubber Coloradons?

You use the word "landlubber" like it's an insult. Being landlocked is good for you. No hurricanes (I know, I know, no hurricanes in California, either--talking about the east coast here), no detrimental effects from El Nino, no annoying surfers--on and on.

By the way, living at high altitude is good for your health. My lung capacity probably exceeds yours by about 30%. I can swim in California's goddamn oceans pretty well, thanks. Could YOU climb Mt. Elbert without succumbing to HACE (high-altitude cerebral edema)? Methinks not.

P.S., it's "Coloradans" or "Coloradoans," not "Coloradons."

Look, I understand that you are unhappy with the administration, I am disappointed as it stands, and I hated previous administrations, but you cannot be serious. I imagine this was started as a joke, but it seems some actually believe in this, that is UNAMERICAN, plain and simple. If you hate a president either a. dont vote for him and its not your fault, or b. wait until two terms are up and elect someone you think is qualified. Suggesting secession, good idea, lets start a new civil war, and remember those "fly over states" have more guns.

More than East Oakland and South-Central? Ha.

Seriously though, secession is stupid, it didn't work before, it won't now. Plus we'd be abandoning the US to the Neocons. It would be much better simply to change it.

Colorado sucks. :)

Have you ever BEEN to Colorado? Seriously--I'm curious. I have been to California and to the East Coast--I can compare the two without hesitation. Colorado wins, on almost every count (more wacko evangelicals in Colorado Springs than there should be, but hey, Berkeley beats Boulder at the dirty hippie liberal contest, so we're even).

If you have, please identify what makes Colorado, as you say, "suck." I would like to know your opinion.

You use the word "landlubber" like it's an insult. Being landlocked is good for you. No hurricanes (I know, I know, no hurricanes in California, either--talking about the east coast here), no detrimental effects from El Nino, no annoying surfers--on and on.


I will take the surfers over people that drag bodies around behind their truck for a mile or so.....

You use the word "landlubber" like it's an insult. Being landlocked is good for you. No hurricanes (I know, I know, no hurricanes in California, either--talking about the east coast here), no detrimental effects from El Nino, no annoying surfers--on and on.

By the way, living at high altitude is good for your health. My lung capacity probably exceeds yours by about 30%. I can swim in California's goddamn oceans pretty well, thanks. Could YOU climb Mt. Elbert without succumbing to HACE (high-altitude cerebral edema)? Methinks not.

P.S., it's "Coloradans" or "Coloradoans," not "Coloradons."



How high is it? The sierras are pretty high. I've been at 12,000 feet before, I've never had altitude sickness or anything.

The annoying surfers are in LA for the most part.

And I doubt you could swim the oceans up here. They are not warm. At all.

If you know California has no hurricanes, why mention them? They're totally irrelevant.

Besides, I was kinda joking in the first place, I have a friend who lives in Colorodo.

And landlubber isn an insult. I don't know how anyone sane can stand to live more than 3 hours from the sea.

I will take the surfers over people that drag bodies around behind their truck for a mile or so.....

Owned.

Have you ever BEEN to Colorado? Seriously--I'm curious. I have been to California and to the East Coast--I can compare the two without hesitation. Colorado wins, on almost every count (more wacko evangelicals in Colorado Springs than there should be, but hey, Berkeley beats Boulder at the dirty hippie liberal contest, so we're even).

If you have, please identify what makes Colorado, as you say, "suck." I would like to know your opinion.

Ive lived in Illinois and Texas. Ive taken 3 trips to CA and 1 to CO. I can easily say I enjoyed CO immensly more. I visited CO springs region, and I found the mountians much more beautiful than say, the sea in San Diego or Sana Monica. The OP is full of more elitist bullshit than I thought possible.

I will take the surfers over people that drag bodies around behind their truck for a mile or so.....

No, you won't. The guy from Castle Rock who dragged his girlfriend behind a truck for a mile was an illegal immigrant, who was promptly arrested and charged. In California, he would have been given a driver's license, a free college education, and a vote, THEN been arrested.

California welcomes illegal immigrants with open arms. Colorado doesn't. Proof positive that Colorado has a more responsible state government (seriously--"Our governor won six Mr. Universe contests" doesn't mean he's an able leader).

Ive lived in Illinois and Texas. Ive taken 3 trips to CA and 1 to CO. I can easily say I enjoyed CO immensly more. I visited CO springs region, and I found the mountians much more beautiful than say, the sea in San Diego or Sana Monica. The OP is full of more elitist bullshit than I thought possible.

San Diego or Santa Monica are both in So-Cal. That hardly represents the whole state.

Look, I understand that you are unhappy with the administration, I am disappointed as it stands, and I hated previous administrations, but you cannot be serious. I imagine this was started as a joke, but it seems some actually believe in this, that is UNAMERICAN, plain and simple. If you hate a president either a. dont vote for him and its not your fault, or b. wait until two terms are up and elect someone you think is qualified. Suggesting secession, good idea, lets start a new civil war, and remember those "fly over states" have more guns.

hmmm,,has it occured to you that the USA is supposedly a democracy...why this instant resort to violence, civil war/guns. If a states citizens decide they no longer have the same interests as other states and to go their own way why deny their wishes? Denying a people the right to self determination to me is very unamerican.

(seriously--"Our governor won six Mr. Universe contests" doesn't mean he's an able leader).

Most Californians here probably don't like him... myself, I think he's the worst governor since Ronald Reagan.

San Diego or Santa Monica are both in So-Cal. That hardly represents the whole state.

Ive also been to San Fransisco and LA.

How high is it? The sierras are pretty high. I've been at 12,000 feet before, I've never had altitude sickness or anything.

The annoying surfers are in LA for the most part.

And I doubt you could swim the oceans up here. They are not warm. At all.

If you know California has no hurricanes, why mention them? They're totally irrelevant.

Besides, I was kinda joking in the first place, I have a friend who lives in Colorodo.

And landlubber isn an insult. I don't know how anyone sane can stand to live more than 3 hours from the sea.

Oooh, wow, 12,000 feet. Too bad nearly 20% of Colorado lies above that altitude, including 56 peaks of over 14,000 (Mt. Elbert, if I recall correctly, is 14,430).

And why do I need warm water? I'm from COLORADO. If I needed it warm all the time, I'd have booked out of here a LONG time ago.

Have you ever swam (swum?) in Lake Granby in February? I have. When you have to break through six inches of ice to go swimming, THAT'S cold-water swimming.

Who's with me? Most of the other states just live off of what we produce anyway. New York shoudl consider it, too.

In fact, the whole "left coast" should seceed. Also, New England should seceed. Then we can have a free trade agreement and diplomatic ties. As for all those stupid people in the Red States in the middle, we'll just look down when we fly over.
And we can shoot your planes down when they fly over and stop all trade from going through the middle of the continent. See how easy it is to keep up trade when you have to send everything around the globe just to get it from CA to NY. I know this is a joke but it's a stupid proposal.

California sucks. It's got Hollywood. It steals other states claim to fame (Wisconsin and cheese). It doesn't have a good state fair. It's full of idiots. The list goes on. In fact, I'd say it hella sucks.

You guys are hella stupid! You guys are hella lame!:p

Aren't you proud of yourselves and your happy cows?

Yes very proud the only bad part is they smell like shit.

Oh by the way I like this California vs the red state debate its very entertaining but you guys need to realize that Central California the place where all the agriculture is would be a red state if it was its own state. The central valley is extremely conservative and hates Los Angeles and San Francisco.

No, you won't. The guy from Castle Rock who dragged his girlfriend behind a truck for a mile was an illegal immigrant, who was promptly arrested and charged. In California, he would have been given a driver's license, a free college education, and a vote, THEN been arrested.

California welcomes illegal immigrants with open arms. Colorado doesn't. Proof positive that Colorado has a more responsible state government (seriously--"Our governor won six Mr. Universe contests" doesn't mean he's an able leader).

Now there's the Colorado hick mentality I remember!

Point remains. We have never had anything like that.

Ive also been to San Fransisco and LA.

Santa Monica is pretty much part of LA...

Oh well, I guess we can't agree, since I'm basically a Nor-Cal Jingoist.

Now there's the Colorado hick mentality I remember!

Point remains. We have never had anything like that.

Don't make me laugh. Never had Richard "Night Stalker" Ramirez? Never had a black man nearly beaten to death by four white police officers? Never had nearly $1 billion in damage from riots after those officers were acquitted? Never had a Marine steal a tank from Camp Pendleton and go on a deluded street rampage? Any of this ringing a bell?

But what do I know? I'm just some country bumpkin, right (from a city of 450,000 people)?

You guys are hella stupid! You guys are hella lame!:p

No you're more stupid and more hella lame! ;)

Santa Monica is pretty much part of LA...

Oh well, I guess we can't agree, since I'm basically a Nor-Cal Jingoist.

Well what I was trying to illustrate is it's all a matter of opinions. I enjoyed California alot each time I visited, but I favor some of the "fly over state".

Oooh, wow, 12,000 feet. Too bad nearly 20% of Colorado lies above that altitude, including 56 peaks of over 14,000 (Mt. Elbert, if I recall correctly, is 14,430).

And why do I need warm water? I'm from COLORADO. If I needed it warm all the time, I'd have booked out of here a LONG time ago.

Have you ever swam (swum?) in Lake Granby in February? I have. When you have to break through six inches of ice to go swimming, THAT'S cold-water swimming.


I see the earlier poster had a point when he said people from Colorodo were stupid...

I see the earlier poster had a point when he said people from Colorodo were stupid...

No, stupid is spelling Colorado (note the letter a) with four o's. Stupid is NOT defending your homeland from ad hominem attacks.

"Recent test results show that 20% of California's high school seniors fail the state's high school graduation exam. Educators are still trying to figure out what percentage passed."

Have you ever BEEN to Colorado? Seriously--I'm curious. I have been to California and to the East Coast--I can compare the two without hesitation. Colorado wins, on almost every count (more wacko evangelicals in Colorado Springs than there should be, but hey, Berkeley beats Boulder at the dirty hippie liberal contest, so we're even).

If you have, please identify what makes Colorado, as you say, "suck." I would like to know your opinion.

I actually find hippie women to be quite physically attractive.

Well what I was trying to illustrate is it's all a matter of opinions. I enjoyed California alot each time I visited, but I favor some of the "fly over state".

Yeah, I try not to refer to them as that, as it's just mean. The problem, is I'm very defensive of my home and so get pretty angry when people insult it, and so feel compelled to insult them back, even if I had no prior quarrel with their state.

Stupid is NOT defending your homeland from ad hominem attacks.



What do you think it is that I'm doing, Sir Galahad?

I actually find hippie women to be quite physically attractive.

More power to you, weirdo.

Just kidding, of course. Where women are concerned, to each his own...

What do you think it is that I'm doing, Sir Galahad?

Point taken. In rereading my previous posts, I've been a little too vicious in attacking other states.

California is NOT as bad as all that, and devolving to the mud-slinging that I've been doing does not help my ideas. Many of my attacks committed an ad hominem fallacy, and that's not appropriate. My apologies to you.

That doesn't mean I don't still think Colorado is better than California, though.

Yes very proud the only bad part is they smell like shit.

Oh by the way I like this California vs the red state debate its very entertaining but you guys need to realize that Central California the place where all the agriculture is would be a red state if it was its own state. The central valley is extremely conservative and hates Los Angeles and San Francisco.

Please don't tell me San Jose is in the central valley...

On a slightly different topic:

Has anyone played the PC game Shattered Union? It postulates a future (the year 2014) where the U.S. has torn itself apart into seven factions all competing for power. Each one has a distinct personality and set of objectives. It's a very interesting premise. Never played it, but have wanted to for a long time.

I'll move this discussion to a separate thread if it generates enough interest, but it seemed relevant to our "My state is better than yours" debate.

Oooh, wow, 12,000 feet. Too bad nearly 20% of Colorado lies above that altitude, including 56 peaks of over 14,000 (Mt. Elbert, if I recall correctly, is 14,430).

And why do I need warm water? I'm from COLORADO. If I needed it warm all the time, I'd have booked out of here a LONG time ago.

Have you ever swam (swum?) in Lake Granby in February? I have. When you have to break through six inches of ice to go swimming, THAT'S cold-water swimming.

Excuse me, Mt. Whitney (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001798.html) is 14,494 ft and is the tallest mountain in the lower 48 states.

No, stupid is spelling Colorado (note the letter a) with four o's. Stupid is NOT defending your homeland from ad hominem attacks.

"Recent test results show that 20% of California's high school seniors fail the state's high school graduation exam. Educators are still trying to figure out what percentage passed."



:rolleyes:

Eww I made a spelling error. Gee U SHURE ARE smert!

Point taken. In rereading my previous posts, I've been a little too vicious in attacking other states.

California is NOT as bad as all that, and devolving to the mud-slinging that I've been doing does not help my ideas. Many of my attacks committed an ad hominem fallacy, and that's not appropriate. My apologies to you.

That doesn't mean I don't still think Colorado is better than California, though.

And my apologies to you, in turn, if I've offended you over your state. I really have no problem with Colorado, other than it being far too conservative and far from the ocean for me. But yeah, I get really fucking defensive over my state (it's only natural, when everyone else seems to hate it).

Please don't tell me San Jose is in the central valley...

It's not. San Jose is in the San Francisco Bay Area, at its southern most tip.

Please don't tell me San Jose is in the central valley...

No thats Northern California.

Excuse me, Mt. Whitney (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001798.html) is 14,494 ft and is the tallest mountain in the lower 48 states.

Yes. ONE really tall mountain (over 14,000 feet). Colorado has 56. No other state has anywhere close to that many.

Don't make me laugh. Never had Richard "Night Stalker" Ramirez? Never had a black man nearly beaten to death by four white police officers? Never had nearly $1 billion in damage from riots after those officers were acquitted? Never had a Marine steal a tank from Camp Pendleton and go on a deluded street rampage? Any of this ringing a bell?

But what do I know? I'm just some country bumpkin, right (from a city of 450,000 people)?

I never said we didn't have freaks. We have 6 or 7 times your population so yes we are going to have more freaks.

Colorodo is a nice area. I like it.

Then I hear people like you spout that kind of crap like that and it just turns ugly.

It's not. San Jose is in the San Francisco Bay Area, at its southern most tip.

Actually no it's not.

It's not. San Jose is in the San Francisco Bay Area, at its southern most tip.

YES! I'M NOT WITH THE CONSERVATIVES!

Now hopefully they don't start moving north...

:rolleyes:

Eww I made a spelling error. Gee U SHURE ARE smert!

Know how many spelling errors I've made in 54 (mostly long) posts? Zip. Zero. Nada. If you can't express yourself articulately and using spelling and grammar appropriate for an adult discussion, don't try. You'll just look (drumroll, please) stupid. ESPECIALLY when you make EXACTLY THE SAME MISTAKE in your next post.

Yes. ONE really tall mountain (over 14,000 feet). Colorado has 56. No other state has anywhere close to that many.

Tibet does!

>.>

<.<

What?

Know how many spelling errors I've made in 54 (mostly long) posts? Zip. Zero. Nada. If you can't express yourself articulately and using spelling and grammar appropriate for an adult discussion, don't try. You'll just look (drumroll, please) stupid. ESPECIALLY when you make EXACTLY THE SAME MISTAKE in your next post.

She did that on purpose, I think.

Actually no it's not.

Noooooooo!!! It can't be true!!

Know how many spelling errors I've made in 54 (mostly long) posts? Zip. Zero. Nada. If you can't express yourself articulately and using spelling and grammar appropriate for an adult discussion, don't try. You'll just look (drumroll, please) stupid. ESPECIALLY when you make EXACTLY THE SAME MISTAKE in your next post.

Ah there is that Colorado hospitality I remember.

From the Federal Bureau of Investigation:

California: 6.9 murders per 100,000 people in 2005 (10th in America)
Colorado: 3.7 murders per 100,000 people (31st in America)

The states with the two lowest murder rates per 100,000 in 2005? Iowa (1.3) and North Dakota (1.1)--the very definitions of "flyover country" (if you believe in such an elitist concept).

Yes. ONE really tall mountain (over 14,000 feet). Colorado has 56. No other state has anywhere close to that many.

The entire Sierra Nevadas are huge you need to look at that list there are a lot of huge mountains in California plus we have the Giant Redwood the biggest trees in the world unlike your Colorado toothpicks you call trees.

Colorado

Thank you very much.;)

From the Federal Bureau of Investigation:

California: 6.9 murders per 100,000 people in 2005 (10th in America)
Colorado: 3.7 murders per 100,000 people (31st in America)

The states with the two lowest murder rates per 100,000 in 2005? Iowa (1.3) and North Dakota (1.1)--the very definitions of "flyover country" (if you believe in such an elitist concept).

Well, we do have Oakland...

She did that on purpose, I think.

;)

It does annoy the grammarians.

Yay California!

But instead of secession, we should stay in the union and strive to change the US government from within.

Like perhaps we can get the Governator as President.

The entire Sierra Nevadas are huge you need to look at that list there are a lot of huge mountains in California plus we have the Giant Redwood the biggest trees in the world unlike your Colorado toothpicks you call trees.

In AREA, the Sierra Nevada RANGE is huge. California--more than twice the size of Colorado, mind you--has 13 fourteeners (say that one out loud and see if someone gets confused).

And--yippy skippy, big trees. Too bad we're overlegislating them. Pretty soon, you won't be able to walk NEAR a redwood in California without some hippie environmentalist wacko arresting you.

In Colorado, when you say "toothpicks," you're probably thinking of lodgepole pines. Fire-resistant, ecosystem-friendly, perfect-woodpecker-habitat, good-looking lodgepole pines that can be cut down for wood and regrow again very quickly. And they're EVERYWHERE. When it comes to trees, quantity beats quality in my book.

Yay California!

But instead of secession, we should stay in the union and strive to change the US government from within.

Like perhaps we can get the Governator as President.

Um...no.

Read the Constitution. Nobody who wasn't born in the United States can be President. Arnold Schwarzenegger was born in Austria.

Well, we do have Oakland...

And we have Denver/Boulder. It's a wash.

Um...no.

Read the Constitution. Nobody who wasn't born in the United States can be President. Arnold Schwarzenegger was born in Austria.

That's why the constitution can be Amended!

That's why the constitution can be Amended!

Will three-fourths of states (that is to say, 38 of them) agree that non-native Americans should be allowed to run for President? No. Why? Because you'll NEVER get 38 states to agree on ANYTHING, let alone two-thirds of both houses of Congress.

In AREA, the Sierra Nevada RANGE is huge. California--more than twice the size of Colorado, mind you--has 13 fourteeners (say that one out loud and see if someone gets confused).

And--yippy skippy, big trees. Too bad we're overlegislating them. Pretty soon, you won't be able to walk NEAR a redwood in California without some hippie environmentalist wacko arresting you.


You do know we haven't had hippies since the 60s right?


In Colorado, when you say "toothpicks," you're probably thinking of lodgepole pines. Fire-resistant, ecosystem-friendly, perfect-woodpecker-habitat, good-looking lodgepole pines that can be cut down for wood and regrow again very quickly. And they're EVERYWHERE. When it comes to trees, quantity beats quality in my book.

Have you even been to our back areas?

You do know we haven't had hippies since the 60s right?

Wanna bet? I've been to Berkeley--those are hippies, even if the age of sex, drugs, rock 'n roll, Woodstock, and anti-Vietnam sentiment has passed.

Have you even been to our back areas?

Yes. Lovely. Plenty of trees. What about the back areas?

In AREA, the Sierra Nevada RANGE is huge. California--more than twice the size of Colorado, mind you--has 13 fourteeners (say that one out loud and see if someone gets confused).

And--yippy skippy, big trees. Too bad we're overlegislating them. Pretty soon, you won't be able to walk NEAR a redwood in California without some hippie environmentalist wacko arresting you.

In Colorado, when you say "toothpicks," you're probably thinking of lodgepole pines. Fire-resistant, ecosystem-friendly, perfect-woodpecker-habitat lodgepole pines that can be cut down for wood and regrow again very quickly. And they're EVERYWHERE. When it comes to trees, quantity beats quality in my book.

You have never seen the Giant Redwoods or you would not be insulting them they are absolutely one of the Greatest Natrural wonders in the world. I live 35 minutes away from them and there is nothing like them. If hippie eviromentalist arrest me for getting close to them it will be Federal hippies because the redwoods are in a national park ran by the federal government.

If qauntity beat qaulity California is still ahead because we have way more trees then Colorado. Central and Northern California are full of trees.

hmmm,,has it occured to you that the USA is supposedly a democracy...why this instant resort to violence, civil war/guns. If a states citizens decide they no longer have the same interests as other states and to go their own way why deny their wishes? Denying a people the right to self determination to me is very unamerican.

The United States of America is a Federal Republic. Federal because the country is divided into several semi-autonomous areas that have control over their own which, in turn, sacrifice certain areas of state to a central government. Republician (not the party) because the people's rule through elected representatives that meet in an assembly of sorts. Democracies are unstable and very inconvienient to the average person. For example, in a democracy, the people vote on every matter pertaining to the country, including taxes, tariffs, treaties, budgets, international policies.


On a slightly different topic:

Has anyone played the PC game Shattered Union? It postulates a future (the year 2014) where the U.S. has torn itself apart into seven factions all competing for power. Each one has a distinct personality and set of objectives. It's a very interesting premise. Never played it, but have wanted to for a long time.

I'll move this discussion to a separate thread if it generates enough interest, but it seemed relevant to our "My state is better than yours" debate.

I have the game. It's strictly "meh." The combat engine is done right, but the factions (California Commonwealth, Pacifica, Republic of Texas, Great Plains Federation, The Confederacy, New England Alliance, and European Union) don't have different objectives; they all have to conquer all of the continental US then drive on to Alaska for reasons I shalln't post. The Europeans have their own unique armies. The American factions differ only by the special unit. It could've been so much more. . .

Wanna bet? I've been to Berkeley--those are hippies, even if the age of sex, drugs, rock 'n roll, Woodstock, and anti-Vietnam sentiment has passed.


No the hippies are gone. Those are wannabes. Their idea of a protest is skipping class for a day.

Even then. That is the one spot in the state.

We don't have as many as you would like to believe.

Yes. Lovely. Plenty of trees. What about the back areas?

Where have you been?

You have never seen the Giant Redwoods or you would not be insulting them they are absolutely one of the Greatest Natrural wonders in the world. I live 35 minutes away from them and there is nothing like them. If hippie eviromentalist arrest me for getting close to them it will be Federal hippies because the redwoods are in a national park ran by the federal government.

If qauntity beat qaulity California is still ahead because we have way more trees then Colorado. Central and Northern California are full of trees.

ALL of Colorado is COVERED in trees (except those parts above timberline and some very isolated pockets of the eastern plains).

And I wasn't insulting the redwoods. I've seen them, too--they're gorgeous. But a few pretty trees does not heaven on earth make.

Have you seen the view from the top of Pikes Peak? Have you felt the exhilarating sting of the wind-whipped snow on your face while you struggle toward the summit of Mount Evans? Those things, too, are natural wonders.

Wanna bet? I've been to Berkeley--those are hippies, even if the age of sex, drugs, rock 'n roll, Woodstock, and anti-Vietnam sentiment has passed.

Don't act like you don't have any hippies either I have been to Boulder and know better.

Will three-fourths of states (that is to say, 38 of them) agree that non-native Americans should be allowed to run for President? No. Why? Because you'll NEVER get 38 states to agree on ANYTHING, let alone two-thirds of both houses of Congress.

You do know he is playing with you.....

Don't act like you don't have any hippies either I have been to Boulder and know better.

Boulder's a hell of a lot smaller than Berkeley. The Bay Area teems with hippies--honest to God hippies, even aging ones from the '60s, who are now 65 years old but would never admit it and never act like it. They're ALL OVER around the bay--Mendocino, San Francisco, a few in Oakland, lots in Berkeley, all the way down the 101 to Stanford and even farther. Boulder, as many Coloradoans refer to it, is "25 square miles surrounded by reality"--very isolated. Boulder is the only large hippie establishment in Colorado--some live in Manitou Springs or Durango, but those are very small towns.

I've been to Yosemite--don't ask me where exactly, because I've been most everywhere in the park. Reminded me of Rocky Mountain NP a lot--similar types of scenery. Very pretty.

ALL of Colorado is COVERED in trees (except those parts above timberline and some very isolated pockets of the eastern plains).

And I wasn't insulting the redwoods. I've seen them, too--they're gorgeous. But a few pretty trees does not heaven on earth make.

Have you seen the view from the top of Pikes Peak? Have you felt the exhilarating sting of the wind-whipped snow on your face while you struggle toward the summit of Mount Evans? Those things, too, are natural wonders.

Yes I have I use to see Pikes Peak every day when I was stationed at Ft. Carson very beautiful l but I use to get some nasty boogers from the dry air and high altitude. I liked Colorado Springs its just to dry there for me I would get bloody noses when I first got there. I almost killed me doing pt and having to run there when I first got there I can see why they put the Olympic Training there.

Boulder's a hell of a lot smaller than Berkeley. The Bay Area teems with hippies--honest to God hippies, even aging ones from the '60s, who are now 65 years old but would never admit it and never act like it. They're ALL OVER around the bay--Mendocino, San Francisco, a few in Oakland, lots in Berkeley, all the way down the 101 to Stanford and even farther. Boulder, as many Coloradoans refer to it, is "25 square miles surrounded by reality." Boulder is the only large hippie establishment in Colorado--some live in Manitou Springs or Durango, but those are very small towns.


:confused:

I am in the Bay Area and have been for years.

What in the world do you classify as a hippie?

I've been to Yosemite--don't ask me where exactly, because I've been most everywhere in the park. Reminded me of Rocky Mountain NP a lot--similar types of scenery. Very pretty.

Don't like Yosemite too much. Too commercialized now. Too many people. You have to hike in the back area to really enjoy it now.

:confused:

I am in the Bay Area and have been for years.

What in the world do you classify as a hippie?



Don't like Yosemite too much. Too commercialized now. Too many people. You have to hike in the back area to really enjoy it now.

No, no--you first. What do YOU classify as a hippie? I'll see if I agree.

I do agree with you about Yosemite, though. A few years ago it was great, but it has gotten too "touristy."

No, no--you first. What do YOU classify as a hippie? I'll see if I agree.


My mom was one in the 60s. So I have a "tainted" view.

I am just curious what people think are hippies now.

Observing that it is 11:17 p.m., I must conclude that it is bedtime. That is one of the positive aspects of California--since it's an hour earlier than here, you can stay up later than I can.

I look forward to continuing the discussion tomorrow.

Good night.

Observing that it is 11:17 p.m., I must conclude that it is bedtime. That is one of the positive aspects of California--since it's an hour earlier than here, you can stay up later than I can.

I look forward to continuing the discussion tomorrow.

Good night.

Aww come on! It should take that long to describe what you call a hippie.

11 PM bedtime? Such a good lad. ;)

Mine is 1ish. Too much the night owl.

My mom was one in the 60s. So I have a "tainted" view.

I am just curious what people think are hippies now.

Harry legs and armpits on women they smell like petula oil, tie died shirts and vw vans with peace signs on them smoke marijuana non stop, free love. That all I can come up with.

Harry legs and armpits on women they smell like petula oil, tie died shirts and vw vans with peace signs on them smoke marijuana non stop, free love. That all I can come up with.

Basically the same as his.

Who's with me? Most of the other states just live off of what we produce anyway. New York shoudl consider it, too.

So does that mean you'll stop begging us to send you Great Lakes water??

Fine by me...though what you plan to drink/wash/grow food with a decade or two down the road, I have no idea.

Also...give a California dairy product and a Wisconsin dairy product to anyone not from California, and guess which they will say tastes better??

But what do I care? I hate cheese. :p

[QUOTE=Novus-America;11801347]The United States of America is a Federal Republic. Federal because the country is divided into several semi-autonomous areas that have control over their own which, in turn, sacrifice certain areas of state to a central government. Republician (not the party) because the people's rule through elected representatives that meet in an assembly of sorts. Democracies are unstable and very inconvienient to the average person. For example, in a democracy, the people vote on every matter pertaining to the country, including taxes, tariffs, treaties, budgets, international policies.

I live in a democracy and I don' t find it inconvenient, and we don't vote on every matter, just during general elections when all those issues are addressed. and the occasional referendum(very infrequent)

Know how many spelling errors I've made in 54 (mostly long) posts? Zip. Zero. Nada. If you can't express yourself articulately and using spelling and grammar appropriate for an adult discussion, don't try. You'll just look (drumroll, please) stupid. ESPECIALLY when you make EXACTLY THE SAME MISTAKE in your next post.

uh oh...spelling nazi...yikes

did i spell that incorrectly?


or maybe you should lighten the fuck up...but alas...you do what you do...and if it makes you feel good....great.

So does that mean you'll stop begging us to send you Great Lakes water??

Fine by me...though what you plan to drink/wash/grow food with a decade or two down the road, I have no idea.

Also...give a California dairy product and a Wisconsin dairy product to anyone not from California, and guess which they will say tastes better??

But what do I care? I hate cheese. :p

Great lake water is New york not on lake Ontario and lake Eerie? (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.univie.ac.at/Anglistik/easyrider/data/pages/woodstock/graphics/NYlargescale.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.univie.ac.at/Anglistik/easyrider/data/pages/woodstock/mapsnystate.htm&h=321&w=342&sz=44&tbnid=BvrULg0zSiCWxM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=120&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmap%2Bnew%2Byork%2Bstate&start=2&sa=X&oi=images&ct=image&cd=2)

I live in a democracy and I don' t find it inconvenient, and we don't vote on every matter, just during general elections when all those issues are addressed. and the occasional referendum(very infrequent)

If you mean democracy in the (very) broad sense, then okay.

Great lake water is New york not on lake Ontario and lake Eerie? (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.univie.ac.at/Anglistik/easyrider/data/pages/woodstock/graphics/NYlargescale.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.univie.ac.at/Anglistik/easyrider/data/pages/woodstock/mapsnystate.htm&h=321&w=342&sz=44&tbnid=BvrULg0zSiCWxM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=120&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmap%2Bnew%2Byork%2Bstate&start=2&sa=X&oi=images&ct=image&cd=2)

This assumes that...

1. New England joins California in seceeding from the Union.
2. The remaining states in the Union let you build a pipeline all the way across their country, as tankers do not have the capacity to fulfill all the various water needs of California.

Try again?

This assumes that...

1. New England joins California in seceeding from the Union.
2. The remaining states in the Union let you build a pipeline all the way across their country, as tankers do not have the capacity to fulfill all the various water needs of California.

Try again?

California would be fine if it weren't for LA needing to pipe water in from elsewhere.

California would be fine if it weren't for LA needing to pipe water in from elsewhere.

Exactly...but they do need to bring in water, and they'll only need more as the population increases.

Hell, California already hijacked the Colorado river.

So yeah, go ahead and leave...it's not like you need the rest of the country. :rolleyes:

This assumes that...

1. New England joins California in seceeding from the Union.
2. The remaining states in the Union let you build a pipeline all the way across their country, as tankers do not have the capacity to fulfill all the various water needs of California.

Try again?

Are you saying California gets water from the great lakes. That would be one hell of a canal or pipeline. I always thought california got its water from the melting snow of the Sierra Nevadas but what do I know. I assumed in the previous post you where saying New York would be cut off from the Great Lakes.

Actually no it's not.

It is, actually. Barely, but it still is. It's the biggest part of "wimpy south bay." If you define it by the 9 counties, it is. If you define it by natural boundries, whether it is or not is quite debateable. It is on every map of the bay area I've ever seen, though.


See? Californians argue as much with each other as with anyone else.

Exactly...but they do need to bring in water, and they'll only need more as the population increases.

Hell, California already hijacked the Colorado river.

So yeah, go ahead and leave...it's not like you need the rest of the country. :rolleyes:

I already stated on this thread that I thought secession was a stupid idea, in fact, that was my first post on it. Since then, though, I've been defending my home state from everybody's insults.

LA hijacked the colorado river, yes. If you haven't already noticed, I don't care for that particular city much.

Most of the water here comes from Sierra snow melt. Not the great lakes.

It is, actually. Barely, but it still is. It's the biggest part of "wimpy south bay." If you define it by the 9 counties, it is. If you define it by natural boundries, whether it is or not is quite debateable. It is on every map of the bay area I've ever seen, though.


See? Californians argue as much with each other as with anyone else.

Actually you are right.

I re-read the comments. For some reason, it came across that San Jose was in Southern California. The South-Bay part didn't register.

Hey it's late.....

The biggest obstacle I see to any such atempt is that not all of California might want to leave, Particularly the agricultural areas mentioned earlier.

Politics
Culturally, the San Joaquin Valley is quite different from much of the rest of California. Among well-populated areas, the San Joaquin Valley is perhaps the most conservative in California. For example, signs can be seen around Pixley and Hanford supporting leaving the United Nations and opposing abortion. Many commentators have noted the irony of the San Joaquin Valley's prevailing "small government" philosophy, given that its farm economy is the product of more than a century of expensive federal and state government projects and that cotton, one of its most important agricultural products, is heavily subsidized. While the importance of agriculture in the area can curb environmentalism, air pollution is a serious and acknowledged problem in the area (which see). Resentment of perceived condescension by Southern Californians and San Francisco Bay Area residents is a recurring theme in the valley's politics, occasionally manifesting itself in laws such as Kern County's 2005 ban on the importation of sewage sludge from urban counties.

Several prominent California politicians have come from the San Joaquin Valley. California state senator and unsuccessful 2002 gubernatorial and 2004 senatorial candidate Bill Jones hails from the Fresno area. As of 2005 Republican U.S. representative Bill Thomas, who represents the valley's southern portions as well as much of the Mojave Desert, is head of the House Ways and Means Committee.
If this is true they might not want to join in anything that will leave them even less influence than they already have, and their refusal to coperate could be very detremental to any such attempts. It could possibly threaten the food supply that people seem to be assuming will be handling all their needs.

Sorry, for any spelling mistakes or If that all dosen't make since its getting late here and I've been up for awhile.

The biggest obstacle I see to any such atempt is that not all of California might want to leave, Particularly the agricultural areas mentioned earlier.

If this is true they might not want to join in anything that will leave them even less influence than they already have, and their refusal to coperate could be very detremental to any such attempts. It could possibly threaten the food supply that people seem to be assuming will be handling all their needs.

Sorry, for any spelling mistakes or If that all dosen't make since its getting late here and I've been up for awhile.

Sure they are conservative. But not in the mid west/south sense.

Everybody knows the varius comments "liberal fag state" "fruits and nuts", etc.

Many people also know the disdain the rest of the country holds the state. Even in politics. You really don't see campaigning her. The two parties view this state as an ATM mostly.

Overall, of course there are many people that wouldn't want to leave. That was even evident in the civil war.

California would be fine if it weren't for LA needing to pipe water in from elsewhere.

Well, we could put in desalination plants, but the Sierra Club wouldn't allow that to happen. They'd sit on every state assemblyman first. :)

Sure they are conservative. But not in the mid west/south sense.

Everybody knows the varius comments "liberal fag state" "fruits and nuts", etc.

Many people also know the disdain the rest of the country holds the state. Even in politics. You really don't see campaigning her. The two parties view this state as an ATM mostly.

Overall, of course there are many people that wouldn't want to leave. That was even evident in the civil war.

Yes, but is the reason they don't compagin there because they know that the area is liberal compared to most conservative areas or because they know there aren't enough votes there to enable them to carry the state and get the electoral votes making it not worth the effort? Or are you talking about at the local level?

Everybody knows the varius comments "liberal fag state" "fruits and nuts", etc.to be fair, almost every state has such names...

ever wonder how many times I hear "gee do we still live in grass shacks?" or "wow... must be nice to do nothing but surf all day." and the ever popular "so where do I change my money to Hawaiian money" (and no, that is not a joke... I hear that alot from alot of tourists in Waikiki.... one of the reasons why I avoid that place like the plague!)

and the... errr.. steriotyping of other states...

then there are the states that seem almost... "gee... who?"

to be fair, almost every state has such names...

ever wonder how many times I hear "gee do we still live in grass shacks?" or "wow... must be nice to do nothing but surf all day." and the ever popular "so where do I change my money to Hawaiian money" (and no, that is not a joke... I hear that alot from alot of tourists in Waikiki.... one of the reasons why I avoid that place like the plague!)

and the... errr.. steriotyping of other states...

then there are the states that seem almost... "gee... who?"
You know at work today I was thinking that it might be interesting to start a thread based on the topic of the streotypes on diferent states. As you were saying lots of states suffer undersuch stereotypes, for example people allways seem o think of Nebraskans as farmers and hicks, thats not true for all of us the city I live in has a larger population than Miami, of course it is a completly accurate potrayl of the rest of the state;)

The biggest obstacle I see to any such atempt is that not all of California might want to leave, Particularly the agricultural areas mentioned earlier.


If this is true they might not want to join in anything that will leave them even less influence than they already have, and their refusal to coperate could be very detremental to any such attempts.

Just promise them lower taxes as they won't be subsidising the red states.

to be fair, almost every state has such names...

ever wonder how many times I hear "gee do we still live in grass shacks?" or "wow... must be nice to do nothing but surf all day." and the ever popular "so where do I change my money to Hawaiian money" (and no, that is not a joke... I hear that alot from alot of tourists in Waikiki.... one of the reasons why I avoid that place like the plague!)

and the... errr.. steriotyping of other states...

then there are the states that seem almost... "gee... who?"

Hawaii's a nice place... but that is pretty ignorant of people to say things like that. I've been there twice, stayed on Oahu's north shore both times. I don't like Waikiki, as I don't much care for crowded beaches.

The first time I went, the teachers were on strike, which was a funny coincidence, because back home, my town's teachers were talking about maybe going on strike.

Actually you are right.

I re-read the comments. For some reason, it came across that San Jose was in Southern California. The South-Bay part didn't register.

Hey it's late.....

No worries... San Jose is a little more like so-cal than the rest of the bay area is though.

I keep being tempted to call it the "yay area." Lol.

You know at work today I was thinking that it might be interesting to start a thread based on the topic of the streotypes on diferent states. As you were saying lots of states suffer undersuch stereotypes, for example people allways seem o think of Nebraskans as farmers and hicks, thats not true for all of us the city I live in has a larger population than Miami, of course it is a completly accurate potrayl of the rest of the state;)

Well, your University's mascot is "the cornhuskers"...

But yeah, every state has stereotypes. Just California gets a lot of hatred basically because it's got the most people, so it's a very visible target. I mean, when was the last time you heard someone say, in all seriousness "Oh man, I really really can't stand Delaware!"